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| Rick_Che | hello everyone | 01:45 |
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| Gollen | hello rick. | 01:45 |
| ricky_99 | meeting is over? | 01:49 |
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| nati2 | Hi Folks! | 17:01 |
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| dwalleck | Hi! | 17:01 |
| AntoniHP | hello | 17:01 |
| donaldngo_hp | hello | 17:02 |
| dwalleck | Hmm, no jaypipes? | 17:02 |
| Ravikumar_hp | jaypipes - vacation | 17:03 |
| dwalleck | Ahhh | 17:03 |
| dwalleck | I'll be doing the same next week | 17:03 |
| AntoniHP | I think it would make sense to have not meeting next week | 17:03 |
| dwalleck | I agree. There will be little activity till after the new year | 17:04 |
| Ravikumar_hp | yes. | 17:04 |
| dwalleck | Do we still have enough to discuss for today? | 17:04 |
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| dwalleck | I sent out the example test changes that we had talked about before. I know Jay's been busy so I figured I'd give him a hand | 17:04 |
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| nati2 | Thanks! | 17:05 |
| nati2 | OK let's get started | 17:05 |
| dwalleck | Lets see if this works... | 17:05 |
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| dwalleck | #startmeeting | 17:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Dec 21 17:05:35 2011 UTC. The chair is dwalleck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 17:05 |
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| dwalleck | Nice! | 17:05 |
| dwalleck | #topic Project status | 17:05 |
| nati2 | #topic example tests | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Project status" | 17:05 | |
| notmyname | btw, ElJose_ and longshot are rackspace cloud files (ie swift) qa people | 17:06 |
| dwalleck | err | 17:06 |
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| dwalleck | #topic example test | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "example test" | 17:06 | |
| nati2 | Ah ok! Let's talk about Project status first :) | 17:06 |
| dwalleck | So did that email make it out? I saw some weird bounced response | 17:06 |
| AntoniHP | what was subject? | 17:06 |
| dwalleck | I was also on a pile of cold medicine last night, so I'm hoping things were clear :) | 17:06 |
| rohitk | i read it | 17:07 |
| rohitk | and I liked your proposal | 17:07 |
| dwalleck | We'll stick with with the example test cases | 17:07 |
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| dwalleck | And the discussion of test class structure going forward | 17:07 |
| nati2 | Gotca! | 17:07 |
| Ravikumar_hp | dwalleck: i do not see that email | 17:08 |
| AntoniHP | I have not seen it too, did it go to openstack general list? | 17:08 |
| rohitk | dwalleck: however there is a one issue | 17:08 |
| dwalleck | Did that sound reasonable? nati2, AntoniHP, I was specifically aiming for an approach that met your goals | 17:08 |
| dwalleck | It went to openstack-qa-team | 17:09 |
| donaldngo_hp | i got it. it was in my junk email box | 17:09 |
| donaldngo_hp | check there guys | 17:09 |
| dwalleck | rohtik: What issue did you find? | 17:09 |
| Ravikumar_hp | yes. it is junk email box . found it | 17:09 |
| rohitk | a test server was created for ServerTests in setup() and we are kind of pushed to use that server throughout the test methods in that class | 17:10 |
| rohitk | what if I want to create more test servers with different params | 17:10 |
| nati2 | dwalleck: I understand this is point " Tests do not change the expected state of the resources under test" | 17:10 |
| nati2 | dwalleck: Then we do setup in setup method | 17:11 |
| dwalleck | rohitk: Correct. But I thought that was the point that people wanted was that they wanted to make many assertions on one action, and see each of those results | 17:11 |
| rohitk | of course it's just an example that you have stated, I just think that it reduces the flexibility to write various combinations in a single class | 17:11 |
| rohitk | dwalleck: yes, as per the last meeting | 17:12 |
| dwalleck | So the one thing I forgot to mention was that I could only see this being used for primary test cases for something like create server | 17:12 |
| rohitk | dwalleck: yes, so the top level positive primary tests | 17:12 |
| dwalleck | If you want to do some specific tests, you would do all of that within one test method | 17:12 |
| dwalleck | But if you want to setup one scenario and test many, many things about it, or know that you will expand testing of it later, this something like this might be a good approach | 17:13 |
| * AntoniHP is reading list archive | 17:13 | |
| rohitk | dwalleck: Also I would not be able to run delete_server tests before the __verify_tests, as they would fail | 17:13 |
| dwalleck | rohitk: Correct. I did note that delete server would needed to be tested elsewhere | 17:14 |
| rohitk | dwalleck: It's a better than previous approach to have class level fixture though | 17:14 |
| dwalleck | rohitk: I agree, class level fixtures are the ideal situation | 17:15 |
| dwalleck | That will help when we move to parallel execution | 17:15 |
| rohitk | dwalleck: +1 | 17:15 |
| dwalleck | So, what I would like to suggest is to see some examples from any interested person of how they would think this would work best | 17:16 |
| nati2 | Let's me confirmed delete server test case? | 17:16 |
| dwalleck | This is just my opinion, and I'd like to see many more :) | 17:16 |
| AntoniHP | it makes sense, however why call to create server is in setup rather then a test? | 17:16 |
| nati2 | dwalleck: If I wanna test delete server (test_delete_server), we should create a server inside test_delete_server ? | 17:17 |
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| dwalleck | AntoniHP: To allow for parallel execution of the tests. If the server is already created, and all that must be done is validations on the create response, the state of the server, or for example ping | 17:18 |
| rohitk | AntoniHP: Check the previous pastebins you can understand the difference in the existing and proposed, IMP is an improvisation | 17:18 |
| dwalleck | Then all this can be done at once | 17:18 |
| rohitk | *IMO | 17:18 |
| dwalleck | nati2: Correct. You would write a single test method for a case like that | 17:18 |
| nati2 | dwalleck: I got it | 17:19 |
| dwalleck | nati2: Or, it could be a test class if you want to do many assertions about deletion of the server | 17:19 |
| AntoniHP | but I think the idea would be that parallel execution would run signle test class, then only thing that would benefit from parallel execution is creation and deletion of server | 17:20 |
| dwalleck | for example, delete the server in setup, save the response in the setup, and the tests could be test response code, test if you get a 404 for a GET for that server, etc | 17:20 |
| nati2 | dwalleck: How about prohibit overwrite of values? like this http://pastebin.com/WRa3GqTS | 17:20 |
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| nati2 | dwalleck: "and the tests could be test response code," I like this idea!! dwalleck++ | 17:21 |
| dwalleck | nati2: You could certainly do that. I really hope I wouldn't have to write defensive code in my tests, but it's certainly possible | 17:21 |
| nati2 | dwalleck: I think to we should have method to check this policy | 17:22 |
| nati2 | dwalleck: Some test method may break parallel execution | 17:22 |
| dwalleck | AntoniHP: I'm not completely sure I follow. If I think I understand, what you're saying is that parallel execution would still have to wait for the class setup to run, and that's right | 17:22 |
| dwalleck | That's the trade off. But then you only have to wait for one server to build, not 5. It's an improvement | 17:23 |
| AntoniHP | dwalleck: I think a signle process should execute a single class and one class should never be split among many processes | 17:23 |
| dwalleck | nati2: I see your point...sorry, Python isn't my primary coding language, but don't they have some concept like Java's "final" keyword? | 17:24 |
| dwalleck | AntoniHP: So what you're saying if that I have 10 test classes, I would spawn 10 test threads, each executing one class? | 17:25 |
| rohitk | dwalleck: we use that in config.py | 17:25 |
| rohitk | where we define methods as properties | 17:25 |
| AntoniHP | dwalleck: no more than 10, but yes, no class methods should be executed in parallel | 17:25 |
| nati2 | dwalleck: like this https://github.com/openstack/tempest/blob/master/tempest/config.py#L23 | 17:25 |
| dwalleck | rohitk: That has the same effect, but I was hoping it could be as simple as "final image_ref..." | 17:26 |
| dwalleck | AntoniHP: Ahh, now I understand. Why would you not want each test class running at the same time? | 17:27 |
| rohitk | nati2++ | 17:27 |
| donaldngo_hp | so we will have class names like test_create_delete_server.py in antonis case. in darryls case we will have test_server.py and have test_delete_server method inside along with other methods to test server api. both can be ran in parallel | 17:27 |
| AntoniHP | dwalleck: if there are 100s of scenarios then running them all at once could be a bottleneck | 17:27 |
| donaldngo_hp | we just have more classes | 17:27 |
| nati2 | dwalleck: It says no final keyword http://stackoverflow.com/questions/802578/final-keyword-equivalent-for-variables-in-python | 17:27 |
| dwalleck | nati2: Ugh, weird Python =P | 17:28 |
| nati2 | dwalleck: But we can write read only class | 17:28 |
| AntoniHP | it is finally I think | 17:28 |
| dwalleck | nati2: Right | 17:28 |
| AntoniHP | also python does not have real multithreading, and with multiprocessing class code would be executed multiple times anyway | 17:29 |
| dwalleck | AntoniHP: I think I fell off the wagon. Could you tell me what you think a test class should look like and do? | 17:30 |
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| AntoniHP | http://pastebin.com/WRa3GqTS] | 17:31 |
| AntoniHP | http://pastebin.com/WRa3GqTS | 17:31 |
| dwalleck | AntoniHP: One of my teammates I believe has an improved multithreaded execution method. I still need to look at it | 17:32 |
| AntoniHP | nosetests uses multiprocessing | 17:32 |
| dwalleck | AntoniHP: And then you want each test to run in order always, correct? | 17:33 |
| AntoniHP | I would like each test within a class to be exectued in order | 17:33 |
| AntoniHP | however each class, containing a sequence of tests, be able to execute in parallel | 17:34 |
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| dwalleck | AntoniHP: Okay, now I'm clear | 17:34 |
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| dwalleck | Are you not concerned about the implicit dependencies that creates? | 17:35 |
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| dwalleck | I'm trying to understand how creating ordered tests helps. To me that complicates the tests by quite a bit | 17:36 |
| AntoniHP | to be clear lets call test something that is test, and ntest something that is test in nosetest software | 17:37 |
| AntoniHP | so I would like test to be convention a class containing ntests | 17:37 |
| dwalleck | The way I've always handled things before is to have no test depend an anything other that data it retrieves or is created in a fixture | 17:37 |
| AntoniHP | the reason behind it is it helps with reporting by increasing resolution of data that nosetests return back | 17:38 |
| AntoniHP | it is also much easier to follow by humans (IMO), and in larger teams this is of high importance | 17:39 |
| dwalleck | Hmm, then the last example I provided did not meet it's goal. The purpose of that example was to meet the desire to have more clear reporting | 17:40 |
| dwalleck | So for the result of one test, you would like to see the results of many assertions, correct? | 17:41 |
| AntoniHP | I would see it as ntest_1 - make REST call to create server and store reponse somewhere, if call failed mark it | 17:41 |
| AntoniHP | ntest_2 verify reponse or if no response skip test | 17:41 |
| AntoniHP | etc | 17:41 |
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| dwalleck | So I think the difference we have is the granularity we want from results of our tests | 17:42 |
| dwalleck | Or even the granularity of our tests | 17:42 |
| AntoniHP | that is right | 17:43 |
| dwalleck | So what you're saying is that create server is a test, which has many test cases, which will all be part of one test class | 17:43 |
| AntoniHP | I propose to disccuss it more on the list, rather then take more time on this meeting | 17:43 |
| dwalleck | Is that right? | 17:43 |
| donaldngo_hp | Antoni isnt your approach like how Kong was? | 17:43 |
| dwalleck | I agree | 17:43 |
| dwalleck | I don't think we're going to solve this today | 17:43 |
| donaldngo_hp | i like Kong btw | 17:43 |
| AntoniHP | ok, I will write some emails on during Christmas, I was following wrong mainiling list until today :-( | 17:44 |
| dwalleck | Because I really don't follow this approach. But lets keep discussing this. I'm sure we can come to some type of middle ground | 17:45 |
| dwalleck | Yes, I think lots of code examples and even result examples would be great! | 17:45 |
| dwalleck | And this will give us all some time to mull things over | 17:46 |
| dwalleck | Most of my team is already on vacation, and I know they'll want to chime in as well | 17:46 |
| AntoniHP | agree | 17:47 |
| dwalleck | Okay, so we'll table this discussion for the moment | 17:47 |
| dwalleck | #topic General discussion | 17:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General discussion" | 17:47 | |
| dwalleck | Right now I don't have much else to report. I'm trying to make sure whatever work my team is doing is updated in Launchpad | 17:47 |
| dwalleck | Does anyone else have any other topics they want to bring up? | 17:49 |
| dwalleck | Going once? | 17:49 |
| dwalleck | Twice? | 17:49 |
| AntoniHP | Merry Christmas :-) Happy New Year | 17:50 |
| dwalleck | have a great holiday! | 17:50 |
| dwalleck | #endmeeting | 17:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Openstack Meetings: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/" | 17:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Dec 21 17:50:10 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-12-21-17.05.html | 17:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-12-21-17.05.txt | 17:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2011/openstack-meeting.2011-12-21-17.05.log.html | 17:50 |
| nati2 | Happy holiday! | 17:50 |
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