Monday, 2012-04-09

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annegentleok, who's here for the doc team meeting?20:01
bcwaldonI AM20:01
annegentlebcwaldon: high FIVE20:01
openstackMeeting started Mon Apr  9 20:01:28 2012 UTC.  The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.20:01
* lorin1 raises hand20:01
annegentlehey lorin120:01
annegentleThe agenda is housed at, feel free to add to it.20:01
annegentleWe use "MeetBot" for IRC meeting note-taking, see for a reference for the different hashtags used. A couple of our new folks might like to know that. :)20:02
annegentle#topic Action items from previous meeting20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from previous meeting"20:03
kbringardannegentle: me too20:03
annegentleNo action items from the last meeting, I apologize for missing the March meeting.20:03
annegentlekbringard: and now you know!20:03
annegentlekbringard: oh that's too funny20:04
kbringardhah, and now it's in the official minutes20:04
bcwaldonand only two clicks away from
annegentle#topic Design Summit planning20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit planning"20:04
kbringardI feel like we should be able to merge those 2 into some kind of i-facepalm20:04
annegentleI have proposed some sessions for the Summit, we have 2.5 hours for the Documentation track. It's Monday morning first thing. Well after a brief kickoff.20:04
annegentlekbringard: for sure20:04
annegentle#link http://summit.openstack.org20:05
bcwaldon#info the track is "Documentation"20:05
annegentle#info Summit Documentation track is 2.5 hours Monday morning20:05
lorin1Oooh, I like the light-docs idea.20:05
annegentleThe first proposal is called "Content Sharing and Documentation" which is about how to provide re-brandable content with shared topics.20:05
annegentleI'll outline some thinking about how to enable public cloud providers to submit generic OpenStack content while maintaining their own specific content.20:05
annegentleYeah, I liked light-docs too. I changed the title a few times, I wanted to talk about how it should be easy to write and contribute docs, even in ASCIIDoc or Markdown.20:06
annegentleI think staying within dev processes is a good thing, but I also believe that we need official manuals and distros are helping out with the DocBook as well. So there's a "WYSWYG" editor camp too, not just ascii-docs.20:06
annegentle#link written in Markdown, converted to Docbook20:07
lorin1(Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the agenda there…)20:07
annegentlelorin1: not at all!20:07
annegentlelorin1: I've been talking to bcwaldon and vishy and others about how doc changes should be easier20:08
annegentleSo, the next one is a show-n-tell for the site.20:08
annegentleBut, we're also doing a panel presentation at the Conference about, so it seems optional20:09
bcwaldonannegentle: btw, we cant see those links20:09
bcwaldonannegentle: 'edit' is forbidden to non-you20:09
annegentlebcwaldon: oh doh.20:09
annegentlelorin1: ok, thanks20:09
bcwaldonlorin1: thanks20:09
annegentletoo bad meetbot doesn't have a link correction method :) Anywho.20:10
annegentleI also proposed a "Folsom priority planning" session for docs.20:10
annegentleI'll use the Etherpad I sent to the list for the session, but feel free to add to it prior to next week. I added web stats since sending it to the List, too20:10
annegentleThat fills up the 2.5 hours we have, but since they're all from me I'd welcome more sessions to choose from and boot one of mine off.20:11
annegentleAny questions about the Summit?20:12
lorin1Along the lines of light-docs, I'm interested in how to increase the likelihood that somebody who finds an error in the docs will submit a doc bug, even if they don't propose an edit.20:12
annegentlelorin1: oh, good idea. there are plenty of questions about how to log doc bugs20:12
annegentlelorin1: I do passes through the doc comments and turn them into bugs, but it's manual20:13
lorin1annegentle: Yeah, I've talked to people who have read the docs, encountered an error, then googled for the right answer, and don't report the issue.20:13
annegentlelorin1: awww…. guh.20:13
lorin1annegentle: And I suspect that population includes devs! But I'm more concerned about people who don't even know how to use git, they should be able to submit that there's a problem.20:14
annegentlelorin1: yeah. I wonder if we also need a "don't have to use git" process for doc edits20:14
annegentleMaybe that's the priority for Folsom, get processes tighter/easier for docs.20:15
lorin1annegentle: That would be nice, but I just want an "unfamiliar with Launchpad" process for reporting a bug. Even if it's just a "send email here for doc problems encountered" in the footer of the docs or somewhere visible.20:15
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annegentlelorin1: I like.20:15
annegentle#info want an "unfamiliar with Launchpad" process for reporting a bug. Even if it's just a "send email here for doc problems encountered" in the footer of the docs or somewhere visible.20:15
annegentlelorin1: want to capture that20:16
annegentle#topic General documentation status20:16
*** openstack changes topic to "General documentation status"20:16
lorin1annegentle: I think you can edit content directly in the github UI, so it's possible we could rig something github-based for quick proposed doc fixes.20:16
annegentlelorin1: oo.20:16
annegentleI moved a lot of bugs to "Fix Released" today, but there are still plenty of gaps to fill. There are 93 open, 14 in progress. All but 4 of the open ones are confirmed.20:16
annegentleI also saw that 41 are reported by me. Hm. :)20:16
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annegentleSo I'd like to take a month to catch up Compute especially to the Essex release. We did this for the Diablo releases and it seemed to work well. Is my memory correct there?20:17
annegentleI'm proposing we don't close openstack-manuals "trunk" for another month or so. Does that sound ok?20:18
lorin1annegentle: Ahhh. yes, that sounds like a good idea20:18
lorin1Oh wait, there's a hashtag for this, right?20:18
annegentle#agreed Won't close openstack-manuals "trunk" for another month.20:18
annegentlelorin1: yup!20:19
lorin1#agreed that's a good idea20:19
annegentleThere's a lot of merging action to get Compute API extensions onto Way to go jakedahn and bcwaldon and a bunch of people!20:19
bcwaldonI spent most of my weekend writing extension docs20:19
annegentlebcwaldon: man I believe it. That's a ton of work.20:20
bcwaldonIts a little less painful now after the work you did to figure out sections vs chapters20:20
annegentlebcwaldon: I will send you confetti eggs if you want.20:20
bcwaldonbut still not fun to have to do this after the fact20:20
annegentlebcwaldon: yeah.20:20
annegentleso take a look at and let us know how it looks20:20
annegentle#link now contains Compute API extensions20:20
bcwaldonannegentle: one thing to consider is that these extensions are specific to nova20:21
bcwaldonannegentle: maybe we need to denote that somewhere?20:21
lorin1How many of these extensions have been incorporated into the "nova" CLI? All? None? Or somewhere in between?20:21
bcwaldonlorin1: somehwere in between20:21
annegentlebcwaldon: yeah trying to figure that scene out too, how do we indicate to users what they have in a given cloud? For now I'm tracking TryStack.20:22
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annegentleOne thing I uncovered last week with some web stats is that got 95K visitors in the last month, but got less than 3K. Trying to figure out how to raise the profile.20:22
lorin1bcwaldon: (Where) do we track which features have not yet been exposed through the CLI?20:22
bcwaldonlorin1: untracked20:22
lorin1bcwaldon: Ah… Whose brains contain this knowledge?20:23
annegentlelorin1: good Q20:23
bcwaldonannegentle: well we ship with all these extensions (some of which can't really be turned off), and a user is supposed to be able to make a request to see what extensions are deployed20:23
bcwaldonlorin1: I wouldnt say its *in* anyone's brain20:23
annegentlebcwaldon: yep, what I mean is I'm not promoting adding in non-nova extensions yet.20:23
bcwaldonlorin1: people typically write an extension and refuse to document it20:24
bcwaldonlorin1: then get around to nova cli when they want to use it20:24
bcwaldonannegentle: oh, yes, definitely. I just want it to be clear that these arent extensions to *the* openstack compute api, they're extensions provided with Nova20:24
lorin1bcwaldon: Ahhh… Is it generally the case that the author of the extension implements the functionality in the CLI?20:24
annegentlebcwaldon: oh ok, good distinction20:25
bcwaldonI would say yes, if that implementation does occur20:25
lorin1bcwaldon: Gotcha. I'm as guilty as anyone, I implemented one of the extensions but didn't implement in the CLI. But I implemented the extension because it was required to get the main code accepted into nova.20:25
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annegentleCLI docs are a distinct hole in docs right now20:25
lorin1annegentle: Yes, a huge gaping maw of a hole!20:26
annegentlelorin1: heh. you said maw.20:26
annegentlelorin1: yeah. I should log a doc bug to track it, one for each CLI.20:26
annegentlelorin1: documenting them would certainly show why common CLI standards would be helpful :) I was kind of hoping that would happen first :)20:27
lorin1lorin1:  The [PENDING] broken links haunt me:
lorin1annegentle: ^20:27
annegentlelorin1: I shudder when I see it, and I click it hopefully every time. I'm sad.20:27
annegentle#action Anne to log doc bugs for CLI doc maw.20:28
lorin1It would be helpful if we could institute some process whereby if you propose new code to a project, and you don't document it, you have to submit a doc bug that says it hasn't been documented yet.20:28
annegentlebcwaldon: so what would we say to let people know these are extensions provided by Nova?20:28
bcwaldonJust add a note in the copy below 'Compute API Extensions'20:29
annegentlelorin1: yeah that's what I was getting at with
annegentlebcwaldon: sounds good. I'll do that.20:29
lorin1annegentle: exactly. Could do this for extensions as well as flags, should be roughly as easy to automate.20:29
bcwaldonsomething like 'The following extensions ship with Nova, but are not required to be deployed for any openstack-compatibile cloud'20:30
annegentle#action Anne to create a note describing the extensions on 'The following extensions ship with Nova, but are not required to be deployed for any openstack-compatibile cloud'20:30
annegentlebcwaldon: I like it20:30
annegentlebcwaldon: I'll fix the spelling of compatible20:30
annegentleOk, one to open discussion?20:30
bcwaldonannegentle: no, I like it the other way20:30
* annegentle snorts20:31
annegentle#topic Open discussion20:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion"20:31
annegentlewow, we got through all that in a half hour. Impressive.20:31
bcwaldonCould really use somehelp getting through the rest of the extension docs20:31
annegentle#info All hands on deck for the rest of the extension docs.20:31
bcwaldonwe've gotten 17/30 done20:32
annegentlebcwaldon: wow only six left?20:32
bcwaldonah, some are claimed but I dont know the status of them20:32
annegentlebcwaldon: ok, not that I'm bad at math, but I was looking at the Etherpad :)20:32
lorin1bcwaldon: I'll take flavorextraspecs,20:32
bcwaldonlorin1: awesome, thanks a bunch20:33
bcwaldonlorin1: there are several examples in the recent commit history20:33
lorin1bcwaldon: np, I did write it, after all. ;)20:33
annegentlebcwaldon: I could take server_action_list but would need a reference20:33
bcwaldonso I will admit that I've left the more difficult ones20:33
annegentlebcwaldon: writerDiane just put a bunch of server statuses in the Compute API book at,630020:34
writerDianeyes, and I can help with extensions soon20:34
annegentlebcwaldon: is a list of actions out there somewheres?20:34
bcwaldonannegentle: I can help you figure itout in a bit20:34
annegentlewriterDiane: awesome, thanks20:35
bcwaldonannegentle: its not as clear as one would expect20:35
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annegentlebcwaldon: you got it. And should I go ahead and merge in the ones from this weekend?20:35
bcwaldonannegentle: if they sould good, yes20:35
annegentlebcwaldon: ok, great.20:35
annegentleAnything else? I'm definitely looking forward to next week.20:36
lorin1This is a pipe dream, but I'd like to see some honest-to-goodness usability testing at some point.20:36
annegentlelorin1: oh, of the CLI? API? Docs?20:36
lorin1Have someone try to set up an OpenStack deployment using while somebody observes and takes notes.20:36
lorin1annegentle: Docs (+ CLI, effectively)20:37
annegentlelorin1: Great idea. I wonder if I can get a Racker to do that.20:37
lorin1annegentle: If we had access to a few nodes, we could even do something like this during the summit/conference.20:38
annegentle#action Anne to investigate usability testing of Install/Deploy doc20:38
annegentlelorin1: oh I like it20:38
annegentlelorin1: wonder if we could set up a booth for doc testing20:38
annegentlemaybe in the dev lounge? I'll ask.20:39
lorin1annegentle: Dev lounge would be a good place20:39
annegentleI do need to circle back on the install/deploy guide since I think there are still bugs in it20:39
annegentlebut, Madkiss should be able to get his Quick Start install guide in soon. That'll help with "get going quickly"20:40
annegentleThe Quick Start install is the Hastexo one20:40
annegentleOk, thanks all for the good discussion.20:40
lorin1annegentle: Since we know there are bug issues, and Essex is released, is there some way to inform readers that docs are still being fixed?20:40
annegentlelorin1: maybe a "draft" designation would be good?20:41
lorin1annegentle: Yes, would be good to have that until it closes.20:41
annegentlelorin1: ok, yeah, I think that's the designation for install/deploy still20:41
annegentlepart of me thinks, well, they'll always be buggy, but another part of me wants a "closure"20:42
lorin1"No major known bugs" is a good goal, I think20:42
annegentleSo I like having a "good as it gets" publish date in a month. Yep, agreed on the "no major known bugs"20:42
annegentleAlrighty, enjoy the rest of your day.20:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)"20:43
openstackMeeting ended Mon Apr  9 20:43:29 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:43
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