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| bcwaldon | mtaylor: back | 15:23 |
|---|---|---|
| mtaylor | bcwaldon: great. ttx said he's available in 10 | 15:23 |
| ttx | on a call, brb | 15:24 |
| bcwaldon | no problem | 15:24 |
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| ttx | mtaylor: I can parallelize while you present the issue | 15:33 |
| jeblair | https://github.com/openstack/swift/zipball/208b8e85a80e46ddb49dc2035cb292570a20c7db#egg=swift | 15:34 |
| mtaylor | #startmeeting | 15:34 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 23 15:34:25 2012 UTC. The chair is mtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:34 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:34 |
| mtaylor | #topic what the heck do we do with pypi and client libs | 15:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "what the heck do we do with pypi and client libs" | 15:34 | |
| jeblair | this url works as a substitute for a git url; it may provide a short term solution | 15:34 |
| jeblair | https://github.com/openstack/swift/zipball/208b8e85a80e46ddb49dc2035cb292570a20c7db#egg=swift | 15:34 |
| mtaylor | or for python-glanceclient - -e https://github.com/openstack/python-keystoneclient/zipball/master##egg=python-keystoneclient | 15:35 |
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| mtaylor | bcwaldon: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/7696/ <- new approach | 15:40 |
| ttx | mtaylor: could you explain why we need pypi specifically for client libs ? | 15:41 |
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| ttx | mtaylor: i mean, we don't provide pypi for server packages | 15:41 |
| ttx | is it for users of openstack ? for developers ? | 15:42 |
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| ttx | Want to make sure I understand the WHY before I jump in the HOW | 15:42 |
| jeblair | ttx: i think it's for end users | 15:43 |
| mtaylor | ttx: pypi is the standard way to distribute python libraries | 15:43 |
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| mtaylor | so, for end users - like me- pypi is where I expect to go to get the latest and greatest python libraries for connecting to openstack | 15:44 |
| ttx | mtaylor: so we should push all our releases to PyPI in addition to LP | 15:44 |
| mtaylor | well, kinda | 15:44 |
| ttx | that doesn't explain why we would need per-commit as well :) | 15:44 |
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| mtaylor | I do _NOT_ believe that pypi serves any purpose for our server products, because there is virtually no way to get nova, for instance, to install properly via python setup.py install | 15:45 |
| mtaylor | and also, it's not something that other packages are going to depend on | 15:45 |
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| mtaylor | whereas various tools written in python (including but not limited to our own) will need to express dependencies on python-*client | 15:45 |
| ttx | mtaylor: ok, we use PyPI as a delivery mechanism for our libraries. In which case I'd link it to the release process for any and all libs we provide | 15:45 |
| mtaylor | ttx: and I'm fine with that in general ... | 15:46 |
| mtaylor | ttx: the problem is that our release process is designed for our server software | 15:46 |
| ttx | mtaylor: why do you need more than releases ? | 15:46 |
| mtaylor | and has at its core the idea of multiple parallel supported releases | 15:46 |
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| mtaylor | such as stable/essex, stable/diablo and master | 15:46 |
| mtaylor | which is of paramount importance for the server | 15:46 |
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| mtaylor | but actually is problematic and gets in the way for client api libraries | 15:47 |
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| mtaylor | (version difference here - think server versions vs. library soname versions) | 15:47 |
| ttx | mtaylor: actually most of our release process ignores stable/* | 15:47 |
| ttx | mtaylor: we have a specific process for stable releases updates (think 2012.1.1) | 15:47 |
| ttx | but the main process is tracking ~trunk | 15:48 |
| mtaylor | sure. but ... | 15:48 |
| ttx | mtaylor: I think what you mean is that for client libraries stable updates are mixed with new releases | 15:49 |
| mtaylor | we don't want a user of the libraries to ever need to know about a stable release update for a client lib | 15:49 |
| mtaylor | yes | 15:49 |
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| ttx | so the versioning (that supports the server model) sucks a bit | 15:49 |
| mtaylor | there should really be one and only one sequence of releases for client libraries | 15:49 |
| mtaylor | yes | 15:49 |
| bcwaldon | whoops, back now | 15:50 |
| ttx | mtaylor: suppose we do a completeky separate model for client libs | 15:50 |
| mtaylor | the versioning should be more like libtool library versioning, where there is a libmysqlclient15 and a libmysqlclient16 and no 15.1 ever | 15:50 |
| ttx | (I want to avoid that, but let's talk hypothetically) | 15:50 |
| mtaylor | ttx: happy to talk hypothetically :) | 15:50 |
| ttx | what would it look like ? 1.1 ? | 15:50 |
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| ttx | 1.4.5.6 ? | 15:51 |
| ttx | 2012.1.122 ? | 15:51 |
| mtaylor | actually - can we agree first that we all agree that we don't want parallel release trains of client libs? | 15:51 |
| jeblair | (at the summit, 'release every commit' was well received enough for us to put it in the etherpad. | 15:51 |
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| jeblair | mtaylor: agreed | 15:51 |
| ttx | mtaylor: what do you mean ? | 15:51 |
| ttx | "parallel release trains of client libs" ? | 15:51 |
| ttx | oh. stable/* separate from master ? | 15:52 |
| jeblair | there are no unstable or stable branches | 15:52 |
| jeblair | yeah | 15:52 |
| mtaylor | ttx: that we don't want stable/essex of *client releasing tarballs in addition to master | 15:52 |
| mtaylor | single sequence of releases | 15:52 |
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| ttx | mtaylor: I think we agree, but there was a bit of opposition to it recently | 15:52 |
| mtaylor | oh there was? | 15:52 |
| ttx | (from dan/joe in that thread ?) | 15:52 |
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| mtaylor | I believe joe is on board with the idea ... just needs his needs met in the implementation | 15:53 |
| ttx | or did you convince them ? | 15:53 |
| jeblair | what thread? | 15:53 |
| mtaylor | the one where he wanted to make sure there was a way to bake crazy re-structuring | 15:53 |
| jeblair | ah | 15:53 |
| jeblair | so i think development branches and release branches can be considered separate | 15:53 |
| jeblair | if you're doing a crazy rewrite on a crazy development branch, let's not release that to pypi | 15:54 |
| jeblair | let's only release it when it's merged to master | 15:54 |
| ttx | I agree we should avoid parallel release trains of client libs if we can | 15:54 |
| mtaylor | ttx: great! that's a great starting place for the rest of things :) | 15:54 |
| mtaylor | #agreed we should avoid parallel release trains of client libs if we can | 15:54 |
| ttx | its a worthwhile goal, but so far the cost always appeared prohibitive | 15:54 |
| mtaylor | (except that we don't have parallel release trains of client libs right now, and it will be expensive to add them) | 15:55 |
| mtaylor | ANYWAY - now back to your question from earlier about hypothetical versioning... | 15:56 |
| mtaylor | to me (and I could be wrong, I don't hold this opinion strongly) ... it seems like released client lib versions during the folsom cycle are updates to the essex client lib | 15:57 |
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| mtaylor | rather than pre-releases of a theoretical folsom lib | 15:57 |
| ttx | mtaylor: maybe, but they definietly could have been pre-releases of a folsom lib | 15:57 |
| ttx | think glance v2 or keystone v3 | 15:58 |
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| jeblair | (they could be developing the ability to talk to a folsom feature, for instance) | 15:58 |
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| jeblair | mtaylor: but they could also be fixing problems talking to essex. it seems ambiguous. | 15:58 |
| mtaylor | agree | 15:59 |
| mtaylor | well, and that's part of the thing ... they really arent' tied to essex or folsom | 15:59 |
| mtaylor | they are libs that talk to _openstack_ - not specifically to essex or folsom | 15:59 |
| mtaylor | so patches to add support for talking to either version of openstack are enhancments in general to the api library, no? | 15:59 |
| mtaylor | bcwaldon: (you still lurking here?) | 16:00 |
| bcwaldon | getting pulled in a million directions | 16:00 |
| ttx | (Historic note: the reason why the client libs are considered "just another deliverable of the corresponding server project" was so that we didn't get into difficult discussions about a whole new category of core projects that would not really be released as the rest of core) | 16:00 |
| mtaylor | bcwaldon: GREAT! | 16:00 |
| bcwaldon | going to have to leave shortly | 16:00 |
| bcwaldon | but I'm here for a minute | 16:00 |
| ttx | (But yes, I'd agree that it forces the client libs to adopt a release model that fits server parts better) | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | Not sure if any cinder folks are going to make it today, but we're scheduled for 10:00... | 16:01 |
| jeblair | jgriffith: how far away is 10:00? | 16:02 |
| mtaylor | jgriffith: oops, we just sort of commandeered the room - we can vacate... | 16:02 |
| ttx | (and I've yet to see a model that would be compelling enough to justify muddying the waters about what "OpenStack Core" is) | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | jeblair: 2 minutes ago :) | 16:02 |
| jeblair | jgriffith: ah, thanks! :) | 16:02 |
| ttx | evacuate... evacuate... | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | mtaylor: no worries, keep it untl folks speak up that they're here for the meeting | 16:02 |
| mtaylor | ttx: well, I don't think we need to muddy the waters ... I think we can still tie the projects together like we have | 16:02 |
| ttx | mtaylor: with different release models ? ew. | 16:03 |
| ttx | or different version numbers ? ewwww. | 16:03 |
| mtaylor | jeblair: ok - sake of argument in the opposite direction from what I was suggesting before ... (check me if I'm stupid here) | 16:03 |
| jeblair | ttx: i do think that client libs syncing up and releasing with servers is still very useful; it just seems it would also be useful if they released much more frequently as well. | 16:03 |
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| mtaylor | oh, no - I remember why the thing I was about to say is broken | 16:04 |
| jeblair | mtaylor: glad i could help | 16:04 |
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| ttx | mtaylor: we should #endmeeting and continue the discussion elsewhere | 16:04 |
| mtaylor | ok | 16:04 |
| mtaylor | #endmeeting | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Status and Progress (Meeting topic: keystone-meeting)" | 16:04 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 23 16:04:54 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:04 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-05-23-15.34.html | 16:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-05-23-15.34.txt | 16:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack-meeting/2012/openstack-meeting.2012-05-23-15.34.log.html | 16:04 |
| mtaylor | ttx: back in #openstack-infra? | 16:05 |
| ttx | otherwise people will think they are at the wrong place for the regular meeting | 16:05 |
| ttx | sure | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | Ok.. shout out for any folks here to talk volumes/cinder? | 16:06 |
| rnirmal | yup | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: Nice! | 16:06 |
| rnirmal | looks like any time is not good for volumes :) | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | :( BOOOO | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | rnirmal: Well I can't see having an "official" meeting for just the two of us | 16:08 |
| rnirmal | nope no point | 16:08 |
| rnirmal | maybe just hangout here at the usual meeting time tomorrow to see if folks show up | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | Alrighty... I'm hopefully going to get back to trying to fit cinder into nova today | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: Yeah, I suspect that may be the case | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | although since we changed it for Duncan I thought he'd be here for sure :) | 16:09 |
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| rnirmal | yeah no on replied to the email you sent... maybe he hasn't updated his calendar or reminders | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | rnirmal: I'll bet that's that case | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | Alright, well I guess I'll keep my eyes peeled if anyone straggles in but seems like we get our hour back today | 16:11 |
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| rnirmal | yeah back to work... | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:12 |
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| devcamcar | jgriffith: any update on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/python-cinder-client? | 18:08 |
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