Thursday, 2012-07-12

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openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 12 16:00:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at
nijaba#meetingtopic Ceilometer16:00
nijaba#chair nijaba16:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:00
openstackCurrent chairs: nijaba16:00
nijabaHello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting?16:00
nijabahey, welcome gmb! care to introduce yourself?16:00
gmbSure, nijaba, thanks.16:00
gmbHi everyone; I'm Graham Binns, and I'm the new Launchpad Green Squad Lead at Canonical16:01
gmbWe'll be working on Ceilometer - as soon as we have the squad assembled16:01
nijabaalso known as the openstack team ;)16:01
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dhellmannthat's great!16:01
nijabagreat to have you with us!16:02
nijaba#topic actions from previous meeting16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:02
gmbThanks. I'm excited to be here.16:02
nijaba#topic nijaba to send an email to the PPB for Incabation application16:02
nijabaThis was done and we'll be discussing the results in a bit16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to send an email to the PPB for Incabation application (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:02
nijaba#topic nijaba to send call for candidate to the general mailing list16:02
nijabaThis was done, I believe we even already have 2 candidates16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to send call for candidate to the general mailing list (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:02
* nijaba ponders adding a third... 16:02
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* dhellmann thinks we need more voters ;-)16:03
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nijabaWell, with condorcet, we could all be candidates!16:03
nijabais jd___ around?16:03
nijabaas the next action was for him16:03
nijaba#topic jd__ to setup opa voting system to start on 26th and end on Aug 3rd16:04
nijabaI gess we just have to carry on this action until then?16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "jd__ to setup opa voting system to start on 26th and end on Aug 3rd (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:04
jd___yes, I can't do this before 2616:04
nijaba#action jd to setup opa voting system to start on 26th and end on Aug 3rd16:04
nijaba#topic nijaba to prime a roadmap page and invite others to populate it16:04
nijabaThis was done:16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to prime a roadmap page and invite others to populate it (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:04
nijabaany suggestion on improving this?16:04
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dhellmannwe should probably post on the mailing list, asking for feedbabck16:05
dhellmannor feedback16:05
nijabagood point.  I can take this action16:05
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nijaba#action nijaba to post roadmap to mailing list, askingfor feeback and volunteers?16:05
nijaba#topic jd__ handle counter/meter type for real16:06
*** openstack changes topic to "jd__ handle counter/meter type for real (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:06
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dhellmannI don't remember that action, what is that about jd___?16:06
jd___about adding the type of meters in ceilometer meter code16:06
jd___I don't recall if there's a bug opened for that or not16:06
dhellmannoh, I remember now16:07
jd___but it's on my todo list16:07
dhellmannI thought you wanted a floating point meter :-)16:07
jd___lol :)16:07
jd___and unfortunately it's still on my todo list, I failed16:07
nijabaso, should we carry on the action for next meeting?16:07
jd___yes please16:07
dhellmannis there a bug open for that?16:07
jd___dhellmann: I'll check and open one while we continue chatting if not16:07
nijaba#action jd___ adding the type of meters in ceilometer meter code16:07
dhellmannsounds good16:07
nijaba#topic nijaba to document external API use with a clear warning about the limitation of the sum and duration function16:08
nijabaI did add a long blurb to the API proposal16:08
*** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to document external API use with a clear warning about the limitation of the sum and duration function (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:08
nijabafeedback on this blurb welcome16:08
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dhellmannthat looks good to me, nice detail16:08
dhellmannand much more clear than my original post to the message16:09
nijabait took me a bit to word it correctly!16:09
nijabaI guess that's it for last week's actions...16:09
nijaba#topic Discuss and define actions from the PPB discussion on Tue regarding our incubation.16:10
dhellmann^message^mailing list16:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss and define actions from the PPB discussion on Tue regarding our incubation. (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:10
uvirtbot`dhellmann: Error: "message^mailing" is not a valid command.16:10
* dhellmann needs more caffeine16:10
nijabaSo I guess we are all a bit disappointed not to have been accepted right away, but on the bright side, we have not been pushed back either!16:10
nijabaWhat's your feeling about this? What do yo think we should be doing to get in?16:10
dhellmannwe should address the specific feedback we did get16:11
flacosteso it seems that the main question is whether metering is a core feature or not, right?16:11
dhellmannI'm a little confused by the "out of scope" response from a few people16:11
dhellmannwe may need to drum up some support from the user community to combat that16:11
nijabaWell, that's an ongoing discussion of the PPB16:11
nijabawhat is in and out of scope16:12
nijabait started with Horizon16:12
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nijabaI think that's the only think we cannot directly address16:12
nijababut we can provide better argumentation if any one has any ideas...16:12
nijabaWe've been asked to update the application to add a table showing the state of integration for each OpenStack project.  I guess I can assign myself to this, if there is no objections.16:13
jd___it may be hard indeed16:13
flacostei think there were broad support to the idea that openstack core contains standard hooks for metering16:13
jd___nijaba: sounds great!16:13
flacosteso that everyone doesn't ahve to reinvent those16:13
nijaba#action nijaba to add a table showing the state of integration for each OpenStack project16:13
nijabaflacoste: in fact, I think we have more supporters than detractors, if I counted well16:14
dhellmannwe should also adjust the proposal to reflect a longer incubation period -- they were right that folsom is half over16:14
nijabadhellmann: yes, that's a clear todo16:14
nijabame again?16:15
dhellmannyou'll be working on it anyway… :-)16:15
nijaba#action nijaba to adjust the proposal to reflect a longer incubation period16:15
nijabaAnother suggestion was to get feedback fromt he potential consumers on the approach, API, etc.  Should we start a poll?16:15
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dhellmanna poll might be interesting. I was thinking of asking for feedback on the mailing list to make some "noise" about the project from that perspective16:16
nijabathat's a form of a free poll16:17
jd___as usual, people will wake up when the project will start working for real and be a bit usable16:17
dhellmannjd___: good poitn16:17
nijabaIt was also suggested that incubation should be granted *after* the project is fully operational16:17
nijabaso may do the poll once we have something complete?16:18
dhellmannThat seemed odd to me, but I'm prepared to wait.16:18
jd___polling can't hurt anyway, but I don't think that'll change, we need more code I guess16:18
nijabashooting for early sept?16:18
dhellmannI would like to get some feedback now about the sorts of meters users want16:18
jd___nijaba: something like that yeah16:18
dhellmannwe can wait to ask about the api until we have a proof-of-concept16:18
nijabadhellmann: +1 to ask feeback on counter list16:18
dhellmannsept makes sense16:18
jd___dhellmann: we can, but I think we already know the meters everybody wants16:18
jd___but that doesn't hurt :)16:19
nijabadhellmann: do you want to take that action?16:19
dhellmannjd___: we know what the people involved in the early discussions want :-)16:19
DanDsorry if you have already done this, have not been able to catch back up. but maybe splitting into chunks would be more appealing. certainly instrumentation of services is core16:19
dhellmannnijaba: sure16:19
nijaba#action dhellmann to get some feedback now about the sorts of meters users want from the mailing list16:19
gmbI've updated to reflect the longer incubation period.16:20
jd___dhellmann: yep, but if only we already had what we want, I'd be happier to ask for even more ideas/wanting from other, but for now… :)16:20
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nijabaAlso, we were suggested to get with dtroyer on getting devstack to set up ceilometer so folks can more easily play around with it.16:20
nijabathanks gmb16:20
DanDmost provides are probably already invested in a billing solution. but all will suffer if the core OpenStack services are not instrumented properly16:20
jd___devstack is a good idea16:20
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dhellmannjd___: we can ask for priorities.16:20
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dhellmannnijaba: I can work on the devstack integration16:21
dhellmannI'll open a bug16:21
jd___dhellmann: sure, but I've the feeling that it's so "basic" what we decided to implement that it doesn't help to have priorities; but anyway, i'm really not against anything here, just saying my feelings ;)16:21
nijaba#action dhellmann to open a bug and work on devstack integration16:21
jd___thanks dhellmann for devstack, I think that'll help16:21
nijabaanything else?16:22
dhellmannjd___: sure, that makes sense. One of the bits of feedback was an apparent lack of input from users (or at least wanting more), so I'm trying to look for ways to address that.16:22
nijabawhich is weird, since I spent 3 months on this, but I guess I was not doing this publicly..16:22
jd___dhellmann: Oh, I didn't know that. Well, that's easy to address then… :-)16:23
jd___nijaba: hehe16:23
jd___so this feedback is not good, but we can't blame them, so let's fix it ;)16:23
dhellmannnijaba: I think it's a matter of volume on the mailing list, and some people not paying attention early on. We did a lot of talking early, then went "heads down" to build something for a stretch of time16:23
nijabadhellmann: true...16:24
dhellmannwe also had more people involved in meetings early on, and we should go back to the logs and include some of those names in the proposal16:24
nijabadhellmann: but I think we are the first OpenStack project to start from an almost blank page16:24
nijabaperhaps excepting glance16:24
jd___keystone maybe?16:24
nijabanope, their was prior art in java16:25
nijabaanyway, let's make them happy and ask for feedback!16:25
nijabaand we have some clear actions defined for that!16:25
nijabathanks dhellmann16:25
nijabaany other comments?16:26
DanDsince I am one of the ones that was attempting to participate but got caught up in internal stuff. I would suggest some kind of review of requirements and design16:26
nijaba#topic Open Discusssion16:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discusssion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:26
heckjnijaba: I have an API related request...16:26
heckj(snuck in)16:26
nijabaDanD: that wouudl be good indeed16:27
nijabaheckj: please shoot16:27
heckjAs you get into the implementation for the API, I'd love to see a resource description of what's getting returned and its format.16:27
nijabaDanD: how would you see that happen?16:27
heckjdolphm and I were talking about some of how we're doing the keystone API, and one of the things we were wrangling was how anal to be able asserting content-type's for returned resources that weren't predefined.16:28
nijabaheckj: for sure, but bad idea to do it before we implement16:28
dhellmannheckj: do you mean describing the json format of the response, or the contents of the json?16:28
jd___I've opened #1023969 for the counter type stuff FYI16:28
dhellmannjd___: thanks16:28
DanDgood question. maybe a conference call with a diagram or two?16:28
heckjnijaba: no argument there. For the keystone draft API, I took a stab in the documentation that was meant to inform the impl, but have left the "spec" open to not constrain it.16:28
DanDsomething that could be the basis for a presentation at the OpenStack meeting in October16:28
nijabaDanD: we could set that up16:28
DanDthat might be a good time to get better support16:29
heckj( if you're curious)16:29
nijabaheckj: then I guess we should take this as guidelines for implementation/documentation16:29
nijabathanks heckj16:29
dhellmannheckj: yes, thanks for the link16:30
heckjnp - glance has done the same - I riffed off their work. Google docs has been OK for the publish/review process, but not awesome16:30
dhellmannwhen we get to the implementation we can use that as a template for a design doc16:30
nijabaDanD: +1 on you proposal.  Anyone else care to comment on this proposal?16:30
dhellmannDanD: do you mean a diagram of the architecture?16:30
dhellmannthat makes sense. we should have something like that in our docs anyway16:31
dhellmannI can do the diagram16:31
nijabaI would be happy to setup something for the first week of august. Google event on air maybe?16:31
DanDwith some emphasis on the impact to the metered systems. haven't looked at the feedback, but I suspect some pushback by other teams is that they are concerned about what it will do to and cost them. certainly is an internal issue for us16:31
nijabaDanD: surprisingly not much pushback in that way at all16:32
heckjnijaba: another unrelated suggestion - get a blog post up walking through a metering setup and showing results. It'll drive interest hugely when you're at the point to show it off16:32
dhellmannDanD: some of that still needs to be measured, but we tried to design for low impact16:32
nijabaMost people are happy when we tell them you can turn off counters16:33
dhellmannheckj: yeah, we need the API server before we can show anything :-/16:33
nijabadhellmann: another great suggestion for early sept16:33
dhellmannnijaba: true16:33
* nijaba winks at gmb and his recruitment process16:33
dhellmannmaybe we can work it into the docs as a how-to and then link to it on a blog so it shows up on planet.openstack16:34
nijabanice idea indeed16:34
nijabadhellmann: want more actions? ;)16:35
dhellmann#action dhellmann create a diagram of ceilometer architecture16:35
dhellmann#action dhellmann write a walk-through of setting up ceilometer and collecting data16:36
nijabaso, slightly boring, but  I am going to be off for the next couple weeks.  Any volunteers to handle the next 2 meetings?16:36
dhellmannI'm off next week, but can take the week after16:36
jd___I'll do16:37
nijabaso jd___ next week, dhellmann the week after!16:37
jd___yup :)16:38
nijabaanything else?16:38
flacostei'll be unavailable for the next 3 meetings16:38
dhellmannI'm starting to look at the classes we'll need to use to set up the API service. one of my co-workers is also interested in those for some quantum work he's doing.16:39
nijabaflacoste: please add yourself to the apologies on the meeting agenda wiki page16:39
* nijaba will do the same16:39
flacostenijaba: i will16:39
nijabaflacoste, gmb: any experience with API setup in python?16:40
nijabaREST API that is16:40
flacostea lot16:40
gmbHah, yes.16:41
flacostewe even wrote a REST framework back in the days16:41
dhellmannnijaba, I'm specifically looking at the classes already being used by the other openstack services16:41
nijabaany pointers for dhellmann?16:41
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flacostefor django, tastypie is nice16:41
dhellmannwe are contemplating moving some more code into common16:41
nijabadhellmann: yep, I tried to look at cinder for that same reason...  Failed to complete my analysis...16:41
flacostebut if we are looking for integration with -common16:42
flacostewe should look at what the other projects are using16:42
flacostealthough this means that openstack might end up with a nih solution16:42
dhellmannat this point the nova code for services is a little messy, but we might be able to extract a base class that would be compatible16:42
dhellmannI'm going to look at some of the other services next to see if they are any cleaner16:43
nijabathat could be worth another -common thread on the ML16:43
nijababut would suggest to wait til monday that the -dev ml is active16:43
dhellmannflacoste: if the existing solutions are all too ugly, we should talk about other options16:44
nijabahope everyone subscribed to openstack-dev16:44
* nijaba thanks oubiwann for his work on that16:44
dhellmannoubiwann says "oh, cool!"16:45
nijabaok, looks like we ran out of topic...16:46
jd___so sad :)16:46
dhellmanntime for lunch!16:46
nijabathanks everyone! great meeting, as always16:46
jd___bon appétit dhellmann !16:47
nijabaI'll be back tanned and rested in a couple weeks :P16:47
dhellmannthanks everyone!16:47
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meeting channel. See for schedule and for meeting logs"16:47
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 12 16:47:27 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:47
openstackMinutes (text):
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davidkranzjaypipes: You there?17:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 12 17:04:31 2012 UTC.  The chair is davidkranz. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:04
rohitkhey folks17:05
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jaypipesdavidkranz: yes, here, but only for about 20 mins.17:05
joseso just off the bat, i've had no time to work on the SwiftSupport branch, so no updates :/17:05
davidkranzjaypipes: OK, let's get to it.17:05
jaypipesdavidkranz: cool with me.17:06
Ravikumar_hphi David17:06
rohitkjaypipes: thanks for the sample code branch for whitebox, i should get my patch in my tomorrow morning my time17:06
davidkranzrohitk: Are you going to finish
davidkranzrohitk: Great. I have some resource stuff to go in after that.17:06
davidkranzjaypipes: I looked at the Tuesday meeting logs and am a little concerned about this cinder thing.17:07
rohitkdavidkranz: apologies, was just tied up with parallel work17:07
davidkranzjaypipes: Do you know what the testing status is?17:08
jaypipesrohitk: coolio.17:08
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jaypipesdavidkranz: Cinder == nova-volumes exactly right now, so Tempest actually doesn't need to do much more than add a little bit in for attaching to a volume endpoint (instead of using the compute endpoint)17:08
jaypipesdavidkranz: I told jgriffith that I would add the cinder test.17:09
davidkranzjaypipes: OK, good.17:09
jaypipesdavidkranz: most of the work actually is in the devstack and devstack-gate side.17:09
jgriffithjaypipes: And I've got devstack ready to go once gating is ready :)17:09
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jaypipesjgriffith: rock on.17:10
davidkranzI think Vish could have said more clearly that this is not a real code or functional change.17:10
davidkranzjgriffith: Maybe you should send another message clarifying that?17:11
jaypipesdavidkranz: yeah, the mailing list thread has now turned ugly with George Reese' latest message.17:11
jgriffithdavidkranz: Happy to17:11
davidkranzjaypipes: Oh, didn't see that yet.17:11
davidkranzjaypipes: But I can predict what it said.17:11
jgriffithit was not very nice17:12
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jaypipesjgriffith: and clearly he didn't actually read the email.17:12
davidkranzI think we are at the point of having real customers and have to work hard to avoid an impression that developers don't really care about that.17:12
jgriffithjaypipes: I was going to respond with "so is that a vote for option 1" but thought I'd refrain17:12
davidkranzI think there needs to be a specific set of hoops to be jumped through before real incompatible changes are made going forward.17:13
jaypipesdavidkranz: it's quite obviously clear we care about it... otherwise we wouldn't put out a mailing list post talking about the options! :)17:14
jaypipesdavidkranz: plus, these aren't actually incompatible changes we're talking about, as Cinder is an exact copy of nova-volumes at this point... it's more of a rename of part of the API than anything else IMHO.17:14
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davidkranzjaypipes: I understand. It is a matter of impressions.17:15
davidkranzjaypipes: I didn't think any one was proposing to rip out volumes for Folsom until I saw this.17:15
davidkranzjaypipes: Anyway, hopefully this will settle down and not happen again.17:16
davidkranzAny more tempest business?17:16
jaypipesnot from me.... it's Bug Squash Day, so we should all be focusing on triaging and fixing as many bugs as we can (in tempest and core projects)17:17
jaypipes /join #openstack-bugday if you're interested17:17
davidkranzjaypipes: OK17:17
davidkranzAny one have anything else for now?17:17
rohitknothing from me17:18
Ravikumar_hpHow about Swift test checkin ..17:18
davidkranzOK. I added some comments to the etherpad from last week.17:18
davidkranzI guess that's it for now.17:18
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meeting channel. See for schedule and for meeting logs"17:19
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 12 17:19:08 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:19
openstackMinutes (text):
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jaypipesdavidkranz: link to that etherpad real quick?17:19
jaypipesrohitk: cheers mate17:23
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liemmnhi... anyone has a formpost example of a multi-file upload?  I just want to see how the tempurls fit into the form post...  Thanks in advance!17:50
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n0anoanyone here for the Orchestration meeting?20:06
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