Thursday, 2012-08-02

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* nijaba waves15:56
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nijaba#meetingtopic Ceilometer16:00
nijaba#chair nijaba16:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Aug  2 16:00:01 2012 UTC.  The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:00
openstackCurrent chairs: nijaba16:00
nijabaHello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting?16:00
nijabaFirst I'd like to apologize for not sending a meeting reminder yesterday.  Good habits are easily lost while on vacation, it seems...16:01
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nijaba#topic actions from previous meeting16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:01
nijaba#topic dhellmann to open a ticket to add documentation about the meters to the rst docs based on the wiki16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann to open a ticket to add documentation about the meters to the rst docs based on the wiki (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:01
dhellmannI'm looking to see if I did that. I think I did, but don't have the link handy16:01
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1030120 in ceilometer "document the available meters" [Wishlist,Confirmed]16:02
nijabalet's continue the dhellmann quizz then!16:02
nijaba#topic dhellmann to open a bug and work on devstack integration16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann to open a bug and work on devstack integration (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:02
dhellmannjtran is working on that16:02
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1023972 in ceilometer "add devstack integration" [High,Confirmed]16:03
dhellmannjtran, did dean approve it yet?16:03
jtranno not yet16:03
nijabanice!  jtran, anything worth mentioning?16:03
jtrannijaba, nothing worth mentioning16:03
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nijabaok, next dhellmann quizz then!16:03
dhellmannwe could use some +1 votes on the changeset to get more attention for it16:03
nijaba#topic dhellmann create a diagram of ceilometer architecture16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann create a diagram of ceilometer architecture (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:04
jtranaltho i think by now the code has changed so none of it is working so i have to resubmit16:04
dhellmannI didn't make any progress on this, but jd___ has a nice one in his presentation I was hoping to steal16:04
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nijabashould we reconduct the action, or transfer it to someone else?16:04
dhellmannalthough as jtran points out, we have a slightly different architecture now so maybe we need a new one16:04
dhellmannwe need to do it, but I'm sure I'm not going to get to it in the next week16:05
dhellmannwe have a sprint starting next week and I'm going to be working on integrating ceilometer with our billing system16:05
nijabadhellmann: I could give it a try16:05
dhellmannnijaba: thanks, that would help16:05
* nijaba is in a sprint too next week, but hope to get a few spare cycles16:05
dhellmannI can help with debugging sphinx issues if you run into trouble16:05
nijaba#action  create a diagram of ceilometer architecture16:06
nijaba#action nijaba create a diagram of ceilometer architecture16:06
nijabajtran: feel free to poke us when you need +116:06
nijaba#topic dhellmann open a ticket to write a walk-through of setting up ceilometer and collecting data16:06
jtrannijaba, will do!16:06
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann open a ticket to write a walk-through of setting up ceilometer and collecting data (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:06
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1030119 in ceilometer "document example of collecting data about running servers" [Wishlist,Confirmed]16:06
nijaba#topic jtran investigate and report on the amount of work needed to support metering essex16:07
*** openstack changes topic to "jtran investigate and report on the amount of work needed to support metering essex (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:07
dhellmannI got lots of tickets opened this week :-)16:07
jtrani did some investigation into this and openstack.common is causing big problems for essex to be compatible w/ ceilometer16:08
jtranif i update essex-stable to use latest openstack.common, everything breaks and not easily resolved16:08
dhellmannyou shouldn't need to update essex-stable, though16:08
* nijaba grumbles about library benefits16:08
jd___since openstack.common is embedded, that should not be a problem16:09
dhellmannwe have our own copy of common16:09
jd___...until it's not embedded16:09
jtranthe reasoning is that i need to update in essex-stable to use from trunk...16:09
dhellmannI thought the problem was actually that we still import things directly from nova that haven't made their way into common yet16:09
jtranand that relies on openstack.common latest16:09
dhellmannI think a better solution is to make it so we don't need to import flags any more16:10
dhellmannthere are a couple of changes pending for common to import the service and manager modules16:10
dhellmannthat will be one step for us16:10
dhellmannwe also use the database layer in nova's Service class, so we need to replace that16:10
jtranyes i think you're right so should i start less work on ceilometer essex compatibility and more focus on just ceilometer no more flags?16:10
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dhellmannand I *think* after that we will be free of nova imports16:10
jtranyes, fully agreed.16:11
dhellmannreplacing the db access with rpc calls would be a good thing to start on16:11
jtranas long as ceilometer depends on flags (and probably other nova code such as services), it'll be tough sledding getting essex to be compliant and work w/ it16:11
dhellmannthat way when the service code lands in common we can start to use it and not worry about the nova db16:11
nijabajtran: should you take that as an action for next meeting?16:11
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jtrannijaba, in full honesty i think that might be way over my head16:11
jtrani can try though!16:12
dhellmannI think we have tickets for all of those things16:12
jd___dhellmann: will Essex work with RPC calls rather than DB access ?16:12
dhellmannah, no, we don't have one for the db work16:12
dhellmannso jtran, would you open a ticket for that? we can work out the details of what to do on the mailing list16:12
jtrandhellmann, will do16:12
dhellmannjd___: doesn't essex nova have an rpc call to ask about the list of instances?16:13
dhellmannI assumed it did, but maybe I'm wrong16:13
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nijaba#action jtran to open a ticket for the DB access work16:13
dhellmannthanks, jtran16:13
jtranno problem16:13
nijabaI guess that's it for last week's actions...16:13
jd___dhellmann: not sure but I don't know, this is why I asked :)16:14
dhellmannjtran: have you signed a contributor agreement?16:14
jtrandhellmann, for nova in general yes16:14
dhellmannjd___: I guess we'll find out :-)16:14
jtrando i need a separate one for ceilometer?16:14
nijabanext topic is very well alligned with last action:16:14
dhellmannjtran: no, that applies to us, too16:14
nijaba#topic Discuss priority of maintaining Essex support and find contributor to work on it if we are going to do it16:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss priority of maintaining Essex support and find contributor to work on it if we are going to do it (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:14
jtranexcellent, i do have ccla as well as cla16:14
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dhellmannI know essex support is important to loic and enovance16:15
dhellmannwe have had some other users express interest, too16:15
jtrandhellmann, important to AT&T too16:15
dhellmanndreamhost is going to be using folsom16:15
jtranfor now anyway16:15
nijabaand it is somewhat important to canonical too16:15
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dhellmannas jd___ pointed out, it's a little unusual to worry about supporting old versions with new services16:15
nijabaso I would suggest we keep this topic for when gmb will hvae returned from vacation16:16
dhellmannbut I don't have an issue doing it if we can get developers and it doesn't prevent us from finishing support for folsom16:16
* nijaba agrees with dhellmann16:16
dhellmannok, that makes sense16:16
nijaba#action nijaba to maintain topic about essex compat for next meeting16:16
nijaba#topic PTL election16:17
*** openstack changes topic to "PTL election (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:17
nijabaSo, tomorrow is the end of the voting process, right? Do we know how many people have voted so far?16:17
dhellmanndo we have any way to tell that, jd___ ?16:17
jd___5 out of 616:17
dhellmannI guess that's a quorum :-)16:18
nijabaok, so we'll have to wait until tomorrow to know the results!!!16:18
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jd___btw the end of the vote is manual and I don't think I'll do it at 00:00 GMT tonight16:18
jd___just sayin' :)16:18
dhellmannI don't think that's a problem16:18
nijabajd___: no worries, you can do it when you wake up16:18
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jd___so it may be a little longer16:18
jd___I'll send a mail with the results ASAP after 00:00 GMT :)16:19
nijabajd___: so I guess that will leave you with the responsibility of publishing the results?16:19
nijabageneral ml?16:19
jd___sounds like a plan16:19
nijaba#action jd___ to publish results of PTL election on general ml sometimes tomorrow16:19
jaypipeshi all.16:20
nijabahey jaypipes16:20
jd___hi jaypipes16:20
jaypipeshow's it goin?16:20
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* jaypipes chatted with jtran about support for Essex in Ceilometer a little while ago.16:20
nijabaI think pretty well!16:20
nijabaI guess we can move to the next topic then16:21
jaypipesnijaba: do you guys have a stable/essex branch set up for Ceilometer yet?16:21
jaypipesin gerrit16:21
nijaba#topic Open Discusssion16:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discusssion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"16:21
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dhellmannjaypipes: ceilometer isn't compatible with essex, yet16:21
jd___jaypipes: no, we never released so..16:21
nijabajaypipes: no, we were just discussing the merrits of supporting Essex or not16:21
jtranjaypipes, this is pertinent:  <dhellmann> as jd___ pointed out, it's a little unusual to worry about supporting old versions with new services16:21
nijabajaypipes: and we decided to rediscuss next week16:22
jaypipesdhellmann: for my info, could you elaborate on what precisely isn't compatible and how difficult you think it would be to work on compat issues?16:22
jtrani had invited jaypipes  to come in and provide thoughts on it.16:22
dhellmannceilometer imports code from nova that has moved between essex and folsom16:22
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dhellmannthat was always a short-cut to get us running, and we want to change that anyway16:22
jaypipesdhellmann: specifically which code? oepnstack-common stuff?16:22
dhellmannsome of the code we use is moving into common, so that's easy (service and manager)16:23
dhellmannthe db code we shouldn't be using anyway, so we are going to look into switching to rpc to get the list of instances16:23
dhellmannthere may be some other db queries that we would need to convert to rpc, I'm not sure16:23
jaypipeswhat I was really worried about was the event notification and RPC message formats.16:23
dhellmannwe did add some details to the nova instance notifications, but the format didn't change afaik16:23
jaypipesif the message formats are off, then ceilometer will need to have multiple aggregators, no?16:24
jaypipesok, good to hear.16:24
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dhellmannso a ceilometer server listening to an essex nova might not have all of the metadata that we want16:24
jaypipesdhellmann: k16:24
dhellmannwe might need to backport one or two of those metadata changes, if that's allowed16:24
dhellmannotherwise we can try to code-around the limits16:24
jaypipesdhellmann: I think I'd need to see a code example to comment further on that one.16:25
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nijabain any cases, we'll decide next week if someone is willing to do this16:25
jaypipesdhellmann: I guess the meta-question is "Is ceilometer designed to aggregate and function against multiple releases or versions of OpenStack deployments?"16:25
dhellmannok. we can talk about that on the list16:25
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jaypipesor further: "Is ceilometer going to speak multiple public API versions of Compute/Image/Identity, etc?"16:26
dhellmannjaypipes: I've been designing it to go with folsom and ahead, but essex support would be fine if we get some development help16:26
jaypipesdhellmann: gotcha.16:26
dhellmannright now we're not using public apis at all, just rpc and other internal apis16:26
jaypipesdhellmann: ok, well that handles that question :)16:26
dhellmannthat may change when we integrate with other services :-)16:27
jaypipesdhellmann: course, pegging on internal or RPC formarts/versions is going to be more of a hassle, but you already knew that. :)16:27
nijabawe should be able to handle version management in the plugin code in any case, shoudn'twe?16:27
dhellmannso, speaking of more developer help, I have been trying to do a little recruiting16:27
dhellmannnijaba: yes, we should be able to16:28
jaypipesnijaba: sorry, haven't taken a look at ceilometer code in a month or so... not sure about that one until I look again.16:28
dhellmannI would like to have another couple of developers. I know flacoste was going to be hiring a team.16:28
dhellmannand now we have jtran as well16:28
jaypipesdhellmann: from our side, jtran is certainly on board.16:28
nijabadhellmann: flacoste team is one it's way.  gmb was the first hire16:29
jaypipesdhellmann: I can try to carve out some time myself, but difficult given my tempest and glance constraints16:29
dhellmannwhat's the general policy for adding core reviewers? do we want to ask for a minimum commitment or contribution of some sort?16:29
jaypipesdhellmann: I think having someone focusing on deployment of ceilometer in multi-node environments is a critical piece of the puzzle.16:29
dhellmannyes, that will be important16:30
jaypipesdhellmann: are there puppet modules/chef cookbooks/juju charms created for ceilometer yet?16:30
jaypipesif not, we can work on that as well.16:30
jd___dhellmann: when many other core members agree, we can add someone, I guess16:30
dhellmannI think we've got that covered as far as the collector goes16:30
dhellmannand the compute agent, of course16:30
nijabajaypipes: not yet, but we'll have juju charms for sure16:30
jaypipesdhellmann: the cookbooks?16:30
dhellmannjaypipes: we have not done anything with cookbooks, I just meant the architecture16:30
jaypipesah, k16:30
jaypipesdhellmann: well perhaps I can be the point for the chef stuff then, with jtran working on coding.16:31
dhellmannjaypipes: welcome aboard!16:31
jaypipesdhellmann: me and a couple others from AT&T are working with mattray on chef stuff, so it's a good fit.16:31
dhellmannexcellent, my ops team will be happy to hear it16:31
jaypipesdhellmann: OK, feel free to add an #action item for me to create the upstream (opscode) cookbook for ceilometer.16:31
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dhellmannI think anyone can add an action, right nijaba ?16:32
jaypipes#action jaypipes to create ceilometer cookbook16:32
dhellmannso how about my question about the policy for adding new contributors?16:32
jaypipesOK, final thing before I run off...16:32
dhellmannI'd like to have at least one patch, maybe some reviews, but I don't think we need to be super strict at this point16:33
jaypipesdhellmann: for that, should just decide as a group...16:33
nijabadhellmann: I think we should use the same policy as other OS projects16:33
dhellmannnijaba: is there a formal policy written down somewhere?16:33
jaypipesnijaba: each one is different ;)16:33
* dhellmann rolls eyes16:33
jaypipesdhellmann: :)16:33
nijabaok, what do you do for glance jaypipes16:34
dhellmannit's like this is some sort of federated open source project16:34
jaypipesso, I would advise just going organically. core contributors will appear over time. as people do more code reviews, they should be asked to join core.16:34
jd___dhellmann: when many other core members agree, we can add someone, I guess16:34
jd___jaypipes: +116:34
dhellmannok, that makes sense16:34
jaypipesnijaba: we do the "if you do some code reviews consistently and make a n effort consistently, the PTL will ask other core committers about you"16:35
dhellmannthe code reviews are what I was looking for anyway :-)16:35
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jaypipesnijaba: until you have the (happy) problem of having hundreds of committers, I don't think there's a need to do the formal nova-core tghing.16:35
jaypipesdhellmann: easiest way to increase number of reviewers is to send emails to the openstack-dev list with subjects like "Hey, got five minutes? We've got a few code reviews you might be interested in..."16:36
jaypipesdhellmann: it'll get people out to gerrit and going through the code.16:36
dhellmannjaypipes: that's a good thought, I'll try that16:36
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jaypipesdhellmann: same with the "low hanging fruit" bugs ...16:36
jaypipesdhellmann: a simple two line email to the list can do wonders ;)16:37
nijabajaypipes: dhellmann has been tagging  them by complexity, so that's really easy to find!16:37
dhellmannjaypipes: I've been getting a lot more requests for essex support than offers of code ;-)16:37
jaypipesdhellmann: patience :)16:37
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dhellmannjaypipes: indeed16:37
jaypipesdhellmann: I find that if you carve up tasks into small, digestable chunks, and advertise those chunks for people to pick up, it goes faster and better :)16:38
dhellmannwe're getting close to the point where we have a functional end-to-end system, so that should make it easier for other people to understand how to contribute16:38
jaypipesdhellmann: lots of times, people just need a small task to get comfortable with the code and the community contribution process, and they can go from there.16:38
jaypipesdhellmann: ++16:38
dhellmannand for us to carve the work up into smaller pieces16:38
jaypipeswhich brings me to my final point before I head off ;)16:38
jaypipesI was wondering if you all have a demo environment anywhere that people can go to to see what ceilometer is all about?16:39
nijabajaypipes: not yet16:39
jaypipesjtran: think that's something we can help with?16:39
nijabawe need to finish the first pass first16:39
jtranjaypipes, i dunno, there's not much to see16:40
jaypipesjtran: ok, when there is, perhaps AT&T can assist there.16:40
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jtrani have agents and collectors writing data , but there's no front end to show off anything  :)16:40
nijabasounds great!16:40
dhellmannjaypipes: I'll keep that in mind16:40
jtrani can have a page w/ mysql rows if you want jpi16:40
jtranjaypipes,  ^16:40
jaypipesjtran: well, it's a start :)16:40
dhellmannthere isn't really a plan for a UI for ceilometer right now16:40
nijabajtran: I was thinking of an horizon plugin16:41
jaypipesnijaba: +1016:41
dhellmannwhat would it show?16:41
nijabathe current user summary16:41
jaypipesanyway, food for thought16:41
jtrani'll talk to you about that one offline jaypipes16:41
dhellmannnijaba: we could do that, but the rules for turning the stats into something meaningful are vendor-specific16:42
dhellmannbut I see the benefit of having *something*16:42
jaypipesdhellmann: sure, of course. but examples speak volumes.16:42
nijabadhellmann: true, but at least it works for a private cloud or a demo16:42
jaypipesok ceilometerites, I'm off to tackle some nasty bugs in tempest :) Catch you all later!16:43
nijabathanks jaypipes16:43
dhellmannthanks for the input/advice jaypipes16:43
jaypipesdhellmann: hey, thx for the answers!16:43
jd___bye jaypipes16:43
nijabaok...  any other topics for today?16:44
jtranshould we consider our own mailing list?16:44
dhellmannwe covered everything I wanted to talk about with increasing the dev team size16:44
dhellmannjtran: the trend has been toward a single -dev list with topics based on subject prefixes16:44
jtranunderstood.  sometimes i have such simple boring questions i hate to pollute the main dev mailing list16:45
dhellmannbesides, we're already too far under the radar. we need more visibility, not less! :-)16:45
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nijabajtran: you should not worry, as long as you prefix your message with [metering] only us seem to read it!16:45
dhellmannseriously, I have a separate mail filter for [metering] or [ceilometer] messages, so if you use the prefix I'll see the email sooner16:46
jtrangot it!16:46
nijabasame here16:46
nijabaanything else?16:47
jd___not from me16:47
dhellmannI'm done16:47
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nijabasounds like breakfast time for dhellmann16:47
dhellmannlunch, actually :-)16:47
nijabaok.  let's close that meeting then16:47
jtrantoo early for lunch16:47
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Aug  2 16:47:55 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:47
nijabathanks everyone!16:47
openstackMinutes (text):
dhellmannthanks, everyone!16:48
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jaypipesmorning QAers17:00
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openstackMeeting started Thu Aug  2 17:00:24 2012 UTC.  The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
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jaypipesrohitk: so...17:01
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jaypipesrohitk: I branched your whitebox tests locally, made a few changes, and have only a single failure that I'm still working through (in the test_server_basic_ops test, not the whitebox tests)17:02
jaypipesrohitk: hoping to push those changes shortly for you to take a look at17:02
rohitkjaypipes: ah, thnx for your time17:02
jaypipesrohitk: for the volumes patch, there is something really wrong...17:02
jaypipesrohitk: it's not a failure in jenkins.17:02
jaypipesrohitk: but I haven't had time to track it down yet17:03
rohitkjaypipes: I'm a bit puzzled too17:03
jaypipesrohitk: going to try to get to that today17:03
jaypipesrohitk: I suspect it MAY have something to do with the size of the volume group backing file17:03
rohitkjaypipes: trying to figure out where the create_volume is failing,17:03
jaypipesrohitk: but I need to test loclly first to verify that17:03
rohitkjaypipes: me too17:03
jaypipesso please be patient on that one..:(17:03
rohitkjaypipes: yes, that would help if you can test it locally :)17:03
jaypipesrohitk: yeah, sorry, was focusing on the whitebox tests because sdague also needed those to go through17:04
rohitkjaypipes: there aren't any issues with the cleanups by the existing volume tests in Tempest though, i guess17:04
rohitkjaypipes: I17:05
rohitkI'd also like your feedback on the design comments17:05
jaypipesrohitk: the one thing I did still disagree with though, is combining the nova-volumes (volume as extension of compute API) client and the Cinder client..17:05
rohitkI had responded to on the volumes patch,17:05
rohitkactually I think nova volumes is not volume as an extension of compute API17:06
rohitkn-vol and compute extensions are different, no?17:06
jaypipesrohitk: n-vol is the service that manages the volumes, not the API endpoint...17:06
jaypipesrohitk: the Compute API is still the API endpoint for volume operations when running with nova-volumes and not cinder17:07
rohitkhmm, yes the compute extensions call the n-vol service API17:07
jaypipesrohitk: which is why I think it would be better to just leave the existing /services/nova/json/volumes_client code and instead just create a /services/volume/json/volumes_client17:08
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jaypipesrohitk: and put all Cinder tests into /tempest/tests/volume/ and leave the existing Compute volume tests in /tempest/tests/compute/17:08
rohitkjaypipes: ok, will do a re-check on that17:09
jaypipesrohitk:  that way, when we eventually deprecate nova-volume all we need to do is delete those files from the compute tests and service.17:09
jaypipesrohitk: and not need to modify and files.17:09
jaypipesany files..17:09
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rohitkjaypipes: yeah, makes sense17:10
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jaypipesok, cool.17:10
jaypipesrohitk: thx for understanding and being patient!17:10
rohitkjaypipes: :)17:10
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jaypipesrohitk: back to the whitebox tests, I actually didn't change much at all -- I just reorganized things a bit. let me elaborate on the changes I made:17:11
davidkranzjaypipes, rohitk : sorry I am late17:11
jaypipes1) put the /tempes/tests/whitebox/compute/* tests just in /tempest/tests/compute/17:11
jaypipes2) Changed the config so that there wasn't a [whitebox] section in the config file -- instead just added whitebox options to the [compute] section17:12
rohitkjaypipes: don't we want to segregate whitebox stuff from the blackbox stuff?, even the configs?17:13
jaypipes3) Made tempest.whitebox.WhiteboxTestCase NOT inherit from BaseComputeTest. Instead, have the actual test cases (i.e. tempest.tests.compute.test_servers_whitebox.TestServersWhitebox) inherit from tempest.whitebox.WhiteboxTest AND tempest.tests.compute.base.BaseComputeTest17:13
jaypipesrohitk: actually no ... so the thought is that whitebox testing is just a type of testing -- but it's still a test of the Compute stuff.17:14
rohitkjaypipes: ok17:14
rohitkjaypipes: I'll take a look to understand the re-org17:15
jaypipesrohitk: so instead of having a compute_db_uri, glance_db_uri, identity_db_uri, etc in a [whitebox] section of config, I just have a db_uri option in [compute], [images], [identity] so any whitebox test has the same config option depending on which things it's testing17:15
rohitkjaypipes: sure17:16
jaypipesrohitk: I'm about 30 minutes away I think from pushing up the  reorg. I hope it will make sense when you see it.17:16
rohitkjaypipes: since we're discussing configs, the build_interval ,build_timeout need to be understood17:17
rohitkand not used randomly too17:17
rohitkso we should have these timing params for each service (where needed)17:17
jaypipesrohitk: I agree 100%17:18
rohitka volume timeout need not be as high as a compute build timeout17:18
jaypipesrohitk: want to add a bug for that?17:18
rohitkjaypipes: yep, I'll do that17:18
jaypipesrock on.17:18
davidkranzjaypipes: There are some Quanta people working on testing now. Do we have any neglected projects it would make sense for them to look at?17:20
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jaypipesdavidkranz: hmm, good question.17:24
jaypipesdavidkranz: perhaps it's worth you me and rohitk going through the bug list later today or tomorrow to clean up and find stuff for them?17:24
davidkranzjaypipes: Sure.17:24
rohitkjaypipes: np17:25
jaypipesdavidkranz: how about tomorrow morning? rohitk you cool with that?17:25
jaypipesa Google+ Hangout?17:25
davidkranzjaypipes: BTW, the discussions about API compatibility made me wonder if any one has run code coverage of nova, etc. of from  Tempest run?17:25
davidkranzjaypipes: I have a meeting at 10EDT tomorrow but am otherwise free.17:26
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rohitkjaypipes: that should be fine17:26
davidkranzI could do 917:26
jaypipesdavidkranz: 9am it is. want to send an invite?17:27
davidkranzOK. I will have to find rohit on G+17:27
jaypipesdavidkranz: tough to do API coverage... easier to do unit test coverage :) because coverage plugins and testing generally do not cover out of process calls :(17:27
davidkranzjaypipes: I know but was thinking you could run nova-api, nova-compute, etc. with coverage and then run Tempest. Is there a reason that would not work? Never done this in python...17:29
rohitkjaypipes: not sure but module level coverage results from unittest reports could help?17:29
jaypipesdavidkranz: I don't know of any way to do that :(17:29
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davidkranzjaypipes: OK, I'll see if I can think of something.17:29
jaypipesrohitk: unittest coverage works fine (and that happens for all the core projects). But seeing whether a tempest test run covers code paths is not something I know how to do with existing tools.\17:30
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rohitkjaypipes: I meant if there was a way to run nose coverage tools from Tempest runners17:31
davidkranzI think tempest is at the point where you need some kind of coverage to take it the final distance as a regression suite.17:31
rohitkdavidkranz: we17:31
rohitkwe've been trying to figure this out for some time too17:31
davidkranzjaypipes, rohitk : Anything else that can't wait until tomorrow?17:33
rohitkdavidkranz: nothing from me now.17:34
davidkranzrohitk: Are you 'Rohit Karajgi' on Google+17:35
rohitkdavidkranz: right17:35
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davidkranzOK, talk to you tomorrow.17:37
rohitkdavidkranz: did you send an invite? I am unable to pinpoint you in search17:39
davidkranzrohitk: Not sure how to do that in advance. My name there is 'David Kranz'17:41
rohitkdavidkranz: gotcha17:42
med_a trick for setting up a hangout in advance is to associate it with a google plus event you create--which can be in the far distant future.17:42
med_The link it creates for the hangout is valid immediately though.17:42
davidkranzmed_: Thanks, I'll give that a whirl.17:43
med_and remains static/available until the actual event ends... which you may have placed in 2014.17:43
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jkffHello. This is Eugene Kirpichev from Mirantis. We're about to hold the first LBaaS meeting but we went to the wrong channel first (#openstack-meetings).19:18
jkffThere's me, Kirill Ishanov, Oleg, and another person will join shortly19:19
jkffHi Yuri19:19
jkffLet's start with a questions/answers phase. Folks, is there anything you would like to ask right away?19:20
jkffWe'll wait for a couple of minutes and if we do not get any questions we'll discuss the current state of the project and roadmap.19:21
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jkffAlso, is there anyone over here who doesn't know what is LBaaS, what we're talking about?19:21
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jkffHi kindaopsdevy, are you here for the LBaaS meeting?19:22
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jkffHi kindaopsdevy_, are you here for the LBaaS meeting?19:23
kindaopsdevy_hi there -- no i'm not19:23
kindaopsdevy_was just connected to the channel19:23
jkffAll right.19:23
jkffOk guys, since we're not getting any questions, let's tell where we are19:24
jkffYuri, can you describe the project's current state briefly?19:24
jkffLike - what's the level of support for haproxy, Cisco ACE and F5 right now and what do we have on the immediate roadmap?19:25
YorikSarWe've implemented the most of core service functionality with good test coverage.19:25
jkffAlso - is the project ready for someone to download it and play with it?19:25
jkffAlso - yesterday you said that you're working on improvements to the scheduler which allow to select a balancer based on its "capabilities". Can you tell more about that?19:26
YorikSarThe service supports pluggable drivers, HAproxy and ACE drivers are implemented to some level. Our first fully supported driver will be an F5 driver.19:27
kishanovETA for F5?19:28
YorikSarThe project is published in our GitHub page at
jkffIs anything special needed for someone to create a test environment for it?19:29
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jkffAssuming they have an ACE or F5 device :) or, if they don't, then haproxy.19:29
YorikSarWe're planning to implement F5 driver in 6 weeks from now. By that moment we're going to stabilise driver API.19:29
jkffGot it. How mature is the "capabilities" functionality; is it in the API yet?19:30
kishanovon F5: is this done through iControl lib?19:31
YorikSarDevice capabilities support is on its way to master. Drivers will be able to report the underlying device's capabilities and all new balancers will be provisioned based on these info.19:31
YorikSarWe're going to implement a scheduler like FilterScheduler in Nova so that we'll gain a lot of flexibility there.19:32
jkffI see. How do you select which device to allocate to someone who hasn't asked for any particular capabilities - do you, like, select the least capable device, or the first available one? Sounds like an interesting problem19:33
jkffAlso, do you plan to support something like transparent migration of a user's balancing configuration from one device to another compatible one? (e.g. to free up a more capable device for someone who needs it)19:34
ogelbukhAPI calls for unsupported capabilities must yield error responses, I suppose19:34
jkffOleg, I'm asking about something different. Suppose I have 5 haproxys and 5 ACE's. Obviously if someone asks just for simple load balancing, I better give him a haproxy instance rather than an ACE19:35
ogelbukhor there should be capabilities request in API so client could determine what to ask for19:35
YorikSarJust like FilterScheduler, after filtering out all devices that don't fit user's requirements scheduler sorts them according some number of weighted cost functions. By default it will be the least busy device in the pool.19:35
jkffHm, least busy, ok19:35
jkffI think in perspective we'll see more intricate strategies, perhaps customizable19:36
jkffAllright. So, the immediate roadmap is to implement F5 - anything else?19:36
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YorikSarWe're going to provide a client library with CLI and Horizon extentions providing UI to manage balancers.19:38
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jkffI see. So - you mean, now you have only the tenant's front-end, and you're going to implement the provider's frontend. Right?19:38
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danwenthi guy, just joining… looks like its just us.   I think its great that you're starting to prototype this stuff, but based on comments on list and from the PPB, I'm pretty confident that all of this will be in Quantum moving forward, so I'm not sure separate CLI, etc. makes sense19:39
danwentthere are a set of vendors interested in LBaaS, and we'll be talking about it at the Grizzly summit19:39
jkffHi Danwent, thanks for joining :) That's an interesting comment, let's discuss19:39
danwentyou all, of course, are free to do whatever you like in the run up to that though, and starting to push on a lbaas prototype is great in my opinion19:40
jkffSo, before we start quantum integration, we need to have *some* way of configuring LBaaS in a user-friendly way19:40
jkffAlso, I can imagine someone who wants to use LBaaS but doesn't want to use Quantum19:40
danwenti think the API will be the same regardless19:40
YorikSarWe may integrate our service with Quantum as well. We can support both standalone service and Quantum extension.19:41
jkffSo I think that there should be some way of using it without Quantum, but of course quantum integration will happen too.19:41
danwentI'd think of LBaaS as a component of Quantum, that might be run standalone if that is desired19:41
danwentbut my point is, there are many members of the quantum community who plan on implementing LBaaS in Quantum19:41
jkffDo you mean they're interested in LBaaS in general, or they're interested in integrating with ours specifically?19:42
danwentso going off and implementing lots of the parts of it as a separate service, with separate CLI, etc. risks wasting a lot of time.19:42
danwentLBaas in general.  t19:42
danwentwe'll need to bring this to openstack users as part of a core openstack project19:43
Boris___dan, are you suggesting that it might make sense to merge whatever is in LBaaS and drivers into quantum already now so as to not drive parallel efforts?19:43
danwentBoris___: yes19:43
jkffI see your point and agree to an extent that *focusing* on the standalone service's front-end is probably not the best thing to do. But neither is omitting it.19:43
ogelbukhdanwent: what would be a starting point for implementing the quantum plugin of lbaas?19:43
danwentwe actually talked about this last summit19:44
danwentthe goal is to allow quantum to be able to load multiple "engins", not just the "l2 engin"19:44
jkffOh, Dan - do you mean that there are people in Quantum who are developing, like, generic front-ends for LBaaS services?19:44
danwentone engine would be a LBaaS engine19:44
ogelbukhdanwent: ok19:44
YorikSarWell, Quantum plugin will need CLI and WebUI just as standalone service, so no effort is wasted here.19:44
danwentjkff: sorry, don't follow19:44
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ogelbukhdanwent: my impression was that quantum can load one 'plugin' at a time19:45
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danwentYorikSar:  but i'd encourage you to implement CLI in a way that is similar ot the Quantum CLI framework, so there's not a lot to reimplement (or even just extend the existing quantum cli)19:45
ogelbukhbetter call it back-end, actually, I think19:45
jkffYou said that developing a front-end could be a waste of time because it would duplicate the effort of Quantum developers19:45
danwentogelbukh: that is what I was refering to for "engines".  For a given set of APIs, there is one plugin19:45
ogelbukhthis was in ML recently19:45
jkffThat implies that Quantum developers are already doing something that qualifies as a replacement for our LBaaS frontend19:45
danwentjkff: i wouldn't say that, as there is not really work done on it, i'm just making sure that the work that you all are starting will fit into how we will eventually deliver this to users.19:46
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danwentquantum is biting off chunks fo the stack: L2 in essex, L3 in folsom, and in Grizzly we'll be moving into L4-L719:47
jkffI understand that one thing you have in mind that is CLI; I don't know much about the Quantum CLI framework, but I can believe that it might make sense to integrate with it instead of doing our own CLI19:47
ogelbukhdanwent: oh, great )19:47
ogelbukhso, first step is to integrate lbaas api as a quantum engine19:48
danwentjkff:  like i said, you're free to do whatever you want, but I want to make sure you understand how I expect things to eventually get into core, as I don't want you wasting time on details like building your own CLI framework.19:48
danwentogelbukh: there's work that needs to be done there, but it would be a great place to start.19:48
ogelbukhwith some fake driver for testing purposes19:48
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jkffdanwent: I understand; I'm just trying to get your opinion on the best integration points19:49
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danwentI actually want to port the L3 stuff we're doing in Folsom over to be a separate "engine" as well19:49
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jkffdanwent: Do you think that Quantum's integration into horizon will allow to build a good front-end for LBaaS?19:49
ogelbukhdabo: and how does it work now, if not engine? just an api extesion?19:49
jkffdanwent: Oh, I see you're the owner of the "quantum horizon integration" blueprint!19:50
ogelbukhdanwent: and how does it work now, if not engine? just an api extension?19:50
danwentI think we'll be able to leverage much of what we've done for "quantum routers", though lbalancers may have more bells and whistles to expose19:50
danwentjkff: that's actually a bit misleading, as that is a "proxy" blueprint.19:50
YorikSarNote that we're basing most of our work on exsting OpenStack libraries and code. We're trying our best not to reinvent all these wheels.19:50
danwentthe real people doing the work and who own the horizon blueprint linked from that blueprint are from NEC and IBM19:50
danwentCisco also did some work on the quantum + horizon integration, but that stalled a bit and these other folks have picked it up.19:51
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danwenteither way, we should have a good basic ability to add "network services" in horizon19:52
danwentand the LBaaS stuff should fit into that model.19:52
danwentanyway, i've got a 1pm meeting coming up soon, so need to run in a few minutes19:53
danwentI think circulating the proposed API spec, as well as a basic internal spec (driver interfaces, schedules) and if possible a proof-of-concept, would be the best things to focus on pre-Grizzly summit.19:54
danwentthat will let us hit the ground running after the summit in terms of development.19:55
jkffI agree. Thanks for the feedback Dan, it was very valuable.19:55
danwentk, well, you all know where to find me on openstack-dev :)19:55
ogelbukhthanks for interesting points, danwent19:56
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n0anoAnyone here for the orchestration meeting?20:02
maoyn0ano: I'm available20:02
n0anomaoy, good afternoon (and congratulations, you're now a core team member)20:03
maoyn0ano: thanks!20:03
n0anohmm, so far it's just the two of us, did you have anything for today?20:05
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maoyi've cleared my schedule to revive the orchestation branch.. but nothing more to say yet.20:06
n0anoWell, I was hoping for more attendees but it looks like that isn't going to work out20:06
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n0anoLooks like nothing for this week, I wonder if we need to ping the dev mailing list to see if people are interested in the subject20:22
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nati_uenoNova meeting?21:01
annieci am waiting for the same21:02
vishyhi everyone21:02
openstackvishy: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.21:02
vishyoh last meeting wasn't ended21:02
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clarkbjaypipes: ^21:02
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vishynijaba: ping looks like you were chair of last meeting?21:04
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vishynijaba: can you issue an #endmeeting?21:04
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russellb/kick openstack21:07
vishyjaypipes: actually you may have the meeting open21:07
nati_uenoop en sta ck21:07
vishyok well i guess we get no logging until someone comes back21:08
vishylets go through the agenda21:08
markmcwell, it's all logged anyway21:08
nati_uenovishy: I may be logged in another meeting, so we can copy it later21:08
maoyright, in the previous meeting21:08
russellbjust don't get the nice meeting summary21:08
vishy#info agenda is here:
markmcthat's a packed agenda21:09
vishy#topic api consistency21:09
vishyhopefully it won't bee too long :)21:09
vishyso I sent an email about api consistency21:09
vishythe main concern is that we have extra parameters in post that are not documented21:10
Ravikumar_hpvishy: what is the best way to handle this21:10
markmcvishy, the plan looks good to me21:11
markmcvishy, except the renaming part - are we talking about breaking backwards compat?21:11
vishyI proposed a solution in the blueprint here:
vishymarkmc: i don't believe so21:11
vishymarkmc: and the renaming part only really changes the name of the extension in the list21:11
markmcvishy, ah, ok - renaming the extension, not the parameters21:11
vishymarkmc: so unless there is some unknown client out there looking for a particular name it shouldn't matter21:12
nati_uenoFYI: quantum added attribute extension. It is very well working.21:12
nati_uenoAt least, it is very clear which parameter is core by code.21:12
bcwaldonvishy: just want to highlight for the group that breaking backwards compatibility can NOT happen right now21:12
vishymarkmc: I will leave them as is if necessary, but it annoys me that there are a couple that are different21:12
dprinceWhat if we just said... anything that doesn't break novaclient is fair game?21:13
vishyso I don't love that the server create code will have to know about the extensions, it is tightly coupled21:13
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vishybut I don't see any way to fix that in the short term without serious risk of breakage21:13
vishyand it is certainly better than what we have now21:13
vishyso it sounds like we are all ok with that as a strategy21:13
bcwaldondprince: I'm not a fan of that21:13
vishyso next point on the same topic: I need help21:13
bcwaldonvishy: don't we all21:14
vishythere are going to be 6 or 7 patches with test changes in addition to the basic one. Does anyone want to help me do some of those?21:14
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_0x44jk0 does :P21:14
vishythis is one of those things that really looks bad from a release perspective so I want to get it buttoned down so our api is coherent21:15
vishyok final point on the first topic21:15
vishyjk0: I will put the initial patch in and then I will farm out some of the other patches to you. Sound good?21:15
sdaguevishy: if this is easy to split up among a few folks, I'm happy to help21:15
vishysdague: awesome I will include you as well21:15
jk0sounds good21:15
vishyok last point: our xml support is weak21:16
annegentlevishy: ideally we'll have 6-7 doc patches for each patch so the truth be told21:16
nati_uenovishy: I wanna also help21:16
mikalvishy: I'm happy to help too if you talk slow and explain what I need to do21:16
vishyespecially in the extensions area21:16
vishyok four volunteers awesome, I will do the first and send an email to all of you with an etherpad for collaborating on the others21:16
sdaguesounds great21:16
annegentlealso what is the naming decision? does os- stay?21:16
vishyso the question is: do we care enough about xml to fix it?21:16
_0x44vishy: The XML contingent has already asked us to kill it.21:17
_0x44vishy: Where XML contingent = justinsb21:17
mikalvishy: do we know if anyone uses XML?21:17
mikalWho do we upset if we kill it?21:17
vishyannegentle: solely for the name of the extension os-xxxx will stay21:17
annegentlevishy: thanks21:17
vishyannegentle: no actual usable endpoints/params will be renamed right now21:17
_0x44mikal: justinsb does, but he has to use both xml and json because our XML support is so abysmal.21:17
markmcvishy, Vek made a good case for killing it - perhaps deprecate in folsom?21:17
Ravikumar_hpVishy: so xml is not yet supported for Nova21:17
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vishyRavikumar_hp: i believe it works for all core api, but support in extensions is very weak21:18
ewindisch… sorry, child on keyboard.21:18
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nati_ueno+1 for remove xml21:18
_0x44ewindisch: Having your child attend doesn't count as attendance. :)21:18
vishycleaning up extensions and adding tests is a dev effort.21:18
vishypersonally I would like it to work for what we have now21:18
russellband by remove, deprecate in folsom to give people a chance to migrate off of it if they are using it?21:18
vishybut it means some volunteers to fix it21:19
vishyI don't see any need to deprecate xml support for the v2 api, we can specifically state that many extensions don't support it21:19
_0x44I don't think we can remove XML support if it's defined in the V2API spec21:19
_0x44Since apparently that can't ever be changed.21:19
vishyand potentially remove it for v321:19
markmcvishy, yeah, deprecating it would be a way of saying "wake up and help fix this or it's dead man walking"21:19
russellbah yeah ... so just remove it for the next spec version then21:19
_0x44From when it was handed down from on high by monks on golden platters.21:19
nati_uenomarkmc: lol for dead man walking21:20
vishyI don't know of anything broken in the xml core spec, except for the fact that wadls etc. don't work21:20
sdague+1 on deprecate, and plan for removal on v321:20
vishyannegentle: we should definitely document that xml + extensions doesn't work21:20
annegentlevishy: noted21:20
_0x44vishy: If the WADLs don't work, why don't we ask the people who originally created them to update them?21:20
Ravikumar_hpvishy: just to get clarified - xml is desupported only for extensions or for core api too21:20
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markmcif we had a blueprint for v3, we could list removing xml as an item to warn folks21:20
sdagueanyone know what the tempest coverage is for the API? that might be a good way to figure out what's working and what's not?21:20
annegentle#info document that xml + extensions do not work21:20
annegentle#info See Vish if you want to work on server extensions cleanup and docs21:21
vishyIf we have an xml expert, I would love someone to go through trying to use the core api and see if that works, although maybe i'm beating a dead horse, because nova with no extensions is essentially useless21:21
Ravikumar_hptempest tests are Json response format only21:21
vishyis there an xml advocate here?21:21
annegentleI'm not it (an xml advocate) but I'll represent what I get asked if it's helpful?21:22
jog0vishy: xml at least needs to stay around partially for EC221:22
vishyok I will ask on the mailing list asking for help on verifying if our xml support is even remotely usable21:22
annegentle1) Where are the XSDs? 2) Is WSDL supported? 3) What's the namespace?21:22
vishyjog0: xml in ec2 is totally reasonable21:22
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_0x44jog0: XML support in this case is for the OpenStack API21:22
markmcit's definitely a nice thing to have if we someone can step up to fix it21:22
vishyok we need to move on, I will ask for volunteers for help with xml21:22
jog0_0x44: understood, I just wanted to put  it out there21:23
vishynext items21:23
lzyevalvishy: i'm in21:23
vishyblueprint updates21:23
vishylzyeval: for xml support?21:23
vishylzyeval: awesome chat with me offline about what we need21:23
vishy#topic blueprint updates21:23
vishyso there are a few blueprints that i think are important that may need help21:24
vishyfirst is configdrive21:24
vishysmoser is not here so lets see if he pops in after21:24
vishyjog0 is here21:24
vishyso next is host-aggregates21:24
vishyreally would like to get that one in, need help on reviews21:24
jog0vishy: all parts are ready for code review.21:24
vishyjog0: can you link them here please?21:25
vishyjog0: so you don't need implementation help? just review help?21:25
vishyjog0: thanks21:25
vishyjog0: is there anything after part2?21:26
jog0vishy: I did not cover moving availability zones to aggregates,  but everything else is ready.21:26
jog0vishy: just documentation and tests21:26
jog0vishy: which are also ready for review21:26
vishyjog0: ok az's to agreggates would be awesome but the migration is hard. Do you think we could add support for az's to use either existing tag or aggregate?21:26
vishyjog0: as in adding support for a certain metadata tag that would work ['availability_zone': xxx' in addition to the one set in the service table?]21:27
jog0vishy:  well one question I had was only compute nodes are part of an aggregate but all services get a availability zone for now.21:27
vishyjog0: only compute now is fine, the code will need to be in cinder also for volumes etc.21:28
jog0vishy: supporting both is straight forward. I will post a patch later this afternoon21:28
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vishyjo0: we can do migration and migrate compute_capabilities into az metadata in Grizzly21:28
vishys/az metadata/host aggregate metadata/21:28
vishyok next blueprint: instance-uuids21:29
jog0vishy:  sounds good, so support both in Folsom and migrate after21:29
vishydone, thanks mikal!21:29
vishyjog0: right21:29
mikalWith some minor collatoral damage21:29
mikalMy only remaining concern is terst coverage is low for some of this code21:29
mikalSo we'll only know nothing broke as people test it more21:29
vishyrussellb: no-db-messaging? how goes?21:29
russellbno-db-messaging is going well.  no-db-compute as a whole doesn't have a chance for folsom.21:30
russellbno-db-messaging is almost done, depending on where we draw the line21:30
vishyrussellb: understood, already moved it21:30
vishyrussellb: need any help besides reviews?21:30
russellbfor instances in the compute rpc api, i've got 2 methods left, 1 of which i'm finishing up right now locally21:30
ewindischrussellb: let me know if you need help there.21:30
russellbewindisch: k21:30
vishyewindisch: I delayed the signed messages bp as well, but anything you can get done is gravy :)21:31
vishyok so last one is the config-drive / metadata-v2 blueprint21:31
russellbi think just reviews, i'll probably draw the line soon and declare success with "much-less-db-messaging" and leave the rest with no-db-compute next cycle21:31
vishysmoser has stated he needs help21:31
ewindischvishy: awesome. So everyone else knows: I put forward a draft change today with the signed messages.21:31
vishycan anyone grab that and make sure it gets in?21:31
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russellbewindisch: i think we definitely need to look hard at how we can do that in a transport agnostic way21:32
vishyrussellb: you should look at that that draft btw, to see what you think about getting it in qpid and rabbit21:32
vishyrussellb: oh you already did :)21:32
ewindischrussellb: right, which is why you're a reviewer on the draft :)21:32
russellbyeah i will, read the comments at least21:32
vishyso any volunteers for config-drive  / metadata-v2?21:32
russellbhaven't read the code yet, but will soon (probably tomorrow)21:32
vishyit is pretty close, so I think it could be done pretty quickly21:33
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mikalvishy: whats the link for the bp?21:33
russellbvishy: i'll help drive that one21:33
vishymikal, russellb:
russellbi meant the trusted messaging one :-)21:34
vishyrussellb: oh good21:34
vishymikal: take a look at that and see if you can do it?21:34
vishyI can use the other three volunteers for the api changes21:34
vishyok are there any other bps that people know about that seem important?21:34
mikalvishy: sure, I'll poke smoser with a stick and see where he's up to21:34
vishywe had two big code drops recently21:34
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* ewindisch looks at the metadata blueprint21:35
vishycells and bare metal provisioning21:35
pixelbeatvishy, mikal : I'll help out with config drive21:35
russellbpixelbeat: nice, thanks21:35
vishypixelbeat: awesome, thanks21:35
ewindischvishy: link to the metadata blueprint?21:35
mikalpixelbeat: cool21:35
vishyewindisch: it is the same bp as config up there21:35
vishyany opinions on whether we should get cells and baremetal in?21:36
ewindischoh, I see. You meant the config-drive metadata.21:36
markmcvishy, does cells have a blueprint?21:36
russellbor docs?  :-)21:36
vishyewindisch: the bp is to unify both metadata api and config drive21:36
vishymarkmc: it did at one point21:36
vishymarkmc: looks like it was lost at some point in history21:37
russellbcells patch:
markmcvishy, at a glance - it seems large and invasive for this point in the cycle, but I'm hoping to look closer21:37
markmcvishy, the baremetal one at least looks isolated to the baremetal driver21:37
Davieyvishy: smoser did some cloud-init work recently for config-drive, do you think that needs refreshing ?21:37
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vishymarkmc: the design of both is to not really affect core code at all, but they may not succeed completely21:37
russellband baremetal is well documented21:38
markmcvishy, ok21:38
maoyvishy: the baremetal one looks good on paper21:38
vishyDaviey: possibly, hopefully when the bp is finished, cloud-init will be able to setup networking from config-drive properly21:38
steveb_is config-drive info immutable after launch? This could be a problem if floating IP changes at runtime21:38
russellbthey're pretty big to get in by folsom-3, unless people dedicate a significant amount of time to the review very quickly...21:38
vishyrussellb: I agree21:38
vishythe advantage of cells is that it helps one of the largest contributors unfork21:39
* markmc will try and grab some of the big reviews over the next week21:39
vishywhich is really nice but it may not matter to them if it happens post-release21:39
vishysince they are doing CD21:39
russellbbaremetal would be a cool item on the release notes21:39
vishythe other advantage of cells is some users are anxiously waiting on it21:39
vishylike mercado-libre21:39
russellbso would cells21:39
vishyif either merges i think they should be considered experimental21:40
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meeting channel. See for schedule and for meeting logs"21:40
openstackMeeting ended Thu Aug  2 21:40:16 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:40
openstackMinutes (text):
jaypipessorry folks.21:40
vishybut in any case any help we can give to reviews there would be awesome21:40
openstackMeeting started Thu Aug  2 21:40:28 2012 UTC.  The chair is vishy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:40
russellbi guess we should jump on both reviews this week, and then sync up again next week on how it looks21:40
russellbsee what things people are finding21:40
jog0vishy: if cells or baremetal lands is it possible to get integration tests for them as well?21:40
vishy#info late start: first part of the meeting is in:
vishy#topic Blueprints and Reviews21:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints and Reviews"21:41
markmc#action jk0, sdague and nati_ueno to help vishy with disabling server create extensions21:41
vishy#info please help with reviews on baremetal and cells21:41
mikalOne other big review is the storwize stuff21:41
markmc#action lzyeval to help with XML support in extensions21:41
mikalI want to check how people feel about the paramiko dependancy21:41
markmc#action mikal to help smoser with config-drive blueprint21:42
russellb#action russellb to help ewindisch with trusted-messaging blueprint21:42
markmc#action general-host-aggregates needs review21:42
markmc#action cells and baremetal patches need review21:42
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jog0mikal:  I have had trouble with paramiko and eventlet in the recent past21:43
vishywell those links are going to be out of order considering the actions but oh well :)21:43
markmcmikal, it's already a dependency, no?21:43
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mikaljog0: the san driver already uses paramiko21:43
vishy#topic Release Quality21:43
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mikalBut I want to make sure packagers know about it21:43
russellbquality: we should have some of that21:43
vishythis is a more general topic which i expect to revisit later21:43
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vishyi think most of the concerns will happen post f-321:44
markmcmikal, looks fine for fedora anyway, already a dep of our openstack-nova package21:44
Ravikumar_hpVishy: Folsom - for Nova when is feature freeze day ? Is it at end of Folsom-3 ?21:44
vishy#help we need help with bugs and documentation21:44
vishyRavikumar_hp: yes no features after f-321:44
markmcvishy, if only we were on top of our bug triaging21:44
russellbyes, folsom-3 is the freeze, and it's august 16th21:44
markmcvishy, I suspect folks would love to help if we had a properly prioritize list of issues21:45
* russellb plans to switch focus to bugs as much as possible after f-321:45
vishyrussellb: I hope the rest of nova-core follows suit21:45
vishyso the main gap aside from bugs and docs is upgrading21:45
vishyI've recruited dtroyer to help create an upgrade test, so we should have something pretty soon21:46
vishyonce we get the code bootstrapped, we will be looking for help to make it awesome21:46
* comstud is here now21:46
markmcupgrade test would be coolness21:46
vishythe first version is going to be a simple upgrade script so that we at least know what an upgrade looks like21:46
markmcthis is a shut everything down, upgrade and restart upgrade right?21:46
vishyand that we can throw into jenkins21:47
vishylive upgrades is way out of scope right now21:47
sdaguevishy: is this going to be something in devstack, or a new thing?21:47
vishybut I'd like to get a framework in place to test it so that we can see how far away we are from folsom -> grizzly21:47
vishysdague: separate, but the first version will use devstack21:47
comstudvishy: if we need to circle back around to cells quickly, I'm available for questions!21:48
markmcvishy, any particular things you think we may have broken? DB migrations, config migration, ... ?21:48
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vishysdague: high level view: a) devstack stable/essex b) run the system c) kill services d) download devstack trunk e) run magic upgrade script d) restart services e) run exercises21:48
lzyevalmarckmc: I've witnessed DB migration problems21:48
vishysecond version do stuff before the upgrade21:49
vishymarkmc: I'm most worried about config changes in projects21:49
markmcvishy, ok21:49
vishymarkmc: and dependency changes21:49
russellbarbitrary config changes that breack backwards compat really bug me21:49
vishymarkmc: I'd like the script to handle converting deprecated config options as well21:50
markmcagreed - for the config options people actually use :)21:50
russellbhopefully there's not too much of that21:50
markmcvishy, cool21:50
russellbmarkmc: heh, fair point21:50
vishymarkmc: like switching to the new driver options from sdague21:50
markmcthe rootwrap_config one too21:50
markmcandrewbogott's notification driver stuff too21:50
vishyi willl make an announcement on the ml once we have something very basic in place so others can help21:50
russellbi wonder if we should have a "config checker" that people can run against their configs and see if they are using deprecated stuff21:51
vishywe can push bug and docs discussion to next meeting, after we make it through f321:51
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vishyrunning out of time but quick check21:51
vishy#topic Other Issues21:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Other Issues"21:51
vishyjust wanted space for people to mention stuff that are issues for the release21:51
sdaguevishy: look forward to the upgrade testing work, will definitely help dtroyer out with that once he gets the first pass out21:52
markmcvishy, wanted to mention
vishymostly end user /operator issues that make nova painful21:52
eglynnvishy: what's the background on the Quota Handling issue mentioned on the agenda?21:52
vishymarkmc: cool anything to say other than the link?21:52
markmcany API changes that we approve, it would be good to add them to the examples section21:52
markmceven subtle stuff21:52
* markmc has added a bunch there already21:52
vishyeglynn: so these are all the things that i see as pain points. Quota handling is not consistent across projects so it is not user friendly21:52
eglynnvishy: (I've grabbed a few quota-related bugs recently, so I've got my head in that code right now ...)21:53
vishy#info add any approved api changes as examples to
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ewindischvishy: if we proceed with the membership services / matchmaker blueprints, we may need to consider moving some of the database stuff into openstack-common.21:53
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vishyeglynn: it is more of a future concern. I don't think we can do anything about it before folsom21:53
eglynnvishy: k21:53
vishyi guess the question is: Is there anything in that list that is important enough to us that we should put effort into it before feature freeze21:54
markmceglynn, seen the per-user quotas patch?
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vishyso everyone think about that and get back to me21:54
eglynnmarkmc: yep21:54
vishysince we're running out of time to discuss it in detail, we can revisit on the ML21:54
vishy#action think about end-user / deployer issues that are important enough to work on in the next couple of weeks21:55
vishy#info examples are rbac handling, quota handling, adminness21:55
vishythere is one issue there that i think is important21:55
vishyour is_admin in the context is set based on a specifically named role21:56
maoyi'd like to see Error in vm state appear less often21:56
vishyit should be switchted to a policy check21:56
vishymaoy: agreed21:56
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vishyI will report a bug about the hard-coded adminness if there isn't one already21:56
vishyok final topic21:57
vishy#action vishy to report a bug on hard-coded admin role so it can be switched to a policy check21:57
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vishy#topic Meeting Times21:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Meeting Times"21:57
vishyQuestion a) Weekly meetings21:57
vishy#startvote Should we have a weekly Meeting? Yes, No21:58
openstackBegin voting on: Should we have a weekly Meeting? Valid vote options are Yes, No.21:58
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.21:58
russellbi didn't like the idea but have found this one useful21:58
comstud#vote yes21:58
mikal#vote yes21:58
sdague#vote Yes21:58
markmc#vote yes21:58
russellb#vote yes21:58
jog0#vote yes21:58
mikalThey can be really short...21:58
eglynn#vote yes21:58
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ewindischI think it is a good idea toward the end of the cycle, at any rate.21:58
dprince#vote yes21:58
ewindisch#vote yes21:58
vishyi wonder if the Yes vs. yes matters21:58
comstud#vote Yes21:58
markmc#vote YES21:58
russellb#vote yEs21:58
openstackVoted on "Should we have a weekly Meeting?" Results are21:58
openstackYes (9): markmc, jog0, eglynn, russellb, sdague, comstud, mikal, dprince, ewindisch21:58
maoy#vote LIKE21:58
sdagueunit testing in progress!21:58
vishyok next vote21:59
vishy#vote Same time every week? same, alternate21:59
anniec#vote yes21:59
russellbi think the people that don't like the time the most probably aren't here :)21:59
maoy#vote same21:59
andrewbogott#vote same21:59
ewindisch#vote alternative21:59
vishy#startvote Same time every week? same, alternate21:59
openstackBegin voting on: Same time every week? Valid vote options are same, alternate.21:59
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.21:59
dprince#vote alternate21:59
maoygood pt russellb21:59
mikal#vote same21:59
markmcrussellb, good point21:59
jk0#vote same21:59
comstud#vote same21:59
jog0#vote same22:00
ewindisch#vote alternative22:00
openstackewindisch: alternative is not a valid option. Valid options are same, alternate.22:00
markmc#vote alternate22:00
andrewbogott#vote same22:00
eglynn#vote alternative22:00
openstackeglynn: alternative is not a valid option. Valid options are same, alternate.22:00
vishyalternate means alternating between two different times22:00
eglynn#vote alternate22:00
russellb#vote move vote to ML22:00
openstackrussellb: move vote to ML is not a valid option. Valid options are same, alternate.22:00
ewindisch#vote alternate22:00
anniec#vote same22:00
vishyrussellb: I don't know how we will ever reach a decision on the ml I guess with a poll22:00
russellb#vote alternate22:00
* russellb nods22:00
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openstackVoted on "Same time every week?" Results are22:01
openstackalternate (5): dprince, markmc, eglynn, russellb, ewindisch22:01
openstacksame (6): jog0, jk0, comstud, mikal, andrewbogott, anniec22:01
russellbthose that couldn't make it proxy vote alternate22:01
vishyso it is roughly split22:01
markmcooh, closely run22:01
mikalSame clearly wins22:01
vishywho wants to send a poll to the ml?22:01
markmcmikal, it's 7am for you, right?22:01
vishylets pick a single time and an alternate and send to the ml22:01
ewindischHow many of same are on the east coast ? ;-)22:01
mikalmarkmc: yep22:01
vishyeu people, when is a better UTC time for you?22:02
eglynnslightly earlier timeslot would be good for GMT22:02
vishywould 1400 work better?22:02
mikalEwww, that's midnight my time22:02
russellbmikal: can't win 'em all22:03
vishy1400 is 7am here22:03
eglynnhow about 20:00 UTC?22:03
vishythat works for me but not for mikal :)22:03
mikalrussellb: I can't help it that I live on the bottom of the planet22:03
russellbmikal: well, sure you can22:03
eglynn6am, yep that would be awkward22:03
mikalvishy: I'll get up at 6am if I need to22:03
mikalvishy: that's easier than midnight for me22:03
vishyok so one time is 20:0022:04
markmcdunno about others, but I could do 6am utc22:04
markmcwhat's that west coast?22:04
russellbironically a discussion about time has taken us over the meeting time.22:04
vishyand if we alternate we go 1400 and 2100 ?22:04
mikalSure, that seems fair22:04
russellbworks for me22:04
mikalYou'd just have to say nice things about me when I'm not there22:05
dprinceI think alternating is good because it'll bring more people in.22:05
ewindischalternating would just cause confusion and kill attendance, imho22:05
vishymarkmc: 11pm here and 1am for midwest22:05
vishynot so wonderful22:05
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ewindisch2am for EST...22:05
sdaguemarkmc: and 2am est22:05
vishyok who knows how to make a poll?22:05
markmcyeah, forgot about east coast :)22:05
vishycan we poll between single 2000 meeting and 1400 / 2100 ?22:05
mikalGoogle docs perhaps?22:05
mikalA google spreadsheet form is quick and easy22:06
russellbyeah gdocs works reasonably well for that22:06
vishymikal: can you send a poll to the ml?22:06
markmcvishy, how about vote again now with a real alternate time22:06
mikal(And you don't have to have an account)22:06
vishymarkmc: sure, revote22:06
mikalvishy: I am happy to send a poll22:06
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vishy#startvote Meeting time single @ UTC 2100 or double, alternating between UTC 1400 and UTC 2100 ? single, double22:07
openstackBegin voting on: Meeting time single @ UTC 2100 or double, alternating between UTC 1400 and UTC 2100 ? Valid vote options are single, double.22:07
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.22:07
russellb#vote double22:07
markmc#vote double22:08
ewindischwait, I thought it was single @ UTC 2000 ?22:08
mikalvishy: I want to vote "don't care"22:08
vishyewindisch: sorry it is22:08
ewindisch#vote single22:08
dprince#vote double22:08
jk0#vote single22:08
pixelbeat#vote double22:08
sdague#vote single22:08
vishy#info previous vote was actually for UTC 2000 single time22:08
markmcmikal, but you're the one in the weird timezone :)22:08
eglynn#vote single22:08
russellbmmm, double double22:08
vishy#vote double22:08
mikalmarkmc: heh, I don't mind missing every second meeting if it means more people can come22:08
vishyjog0: you have to use #vote22:09
jog0#vote single22:09
openstackVoted on "Meeting time single @ UTC 2100 or double, alternating between UTC 1400 and UTC 2100 ?" Results are22:09
openstackdouble (5): dprince, markmc, russellb, pixelbeat, vishy22:09
openstacksingle (5): jog0, eglynn, jk0, sdague, ewindisch22:09
vishytotally even22:09
vishyto the ml!22:09
mikalvishy: I'll send you an email about the poll22:09
vishy#action mikal to take the vote to the ml22:09
markmcwe should just alternate between double and single, then22:09
vishyok we're done22:09
vishynext meeting will be determined based on the poll22:10
markmcvishy, nicely done, thanks22:10
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meeting channel. See for schedule and for meeting logs"22:10
openstackMeeting ended Thu Aug  2 22:10:07 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:10
openstackMinutes (text):
russellbthanks, vishy !22:10
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comstuddid anyone have any quick cells questions?22:10
comstudbefore they depart?22:10
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russellbcomstud: hm, don't think so22:11
russellbi'm hoping i can help review it soon22:11
comstudmarkmc: should find it pretty uninvasive22:11
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comstudwhen you look22:12
comstudit's a lot of new code22:12
comstudvery little modifying of core code22:12
russellbany sort of docs?22:12
comstudwhich also means it's slightly ugly :)22:12
comstudNot yet..22:12
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comstudi'm sure that's extremely helpful22:12
russellbnot a deal breaker, i just wanted to make sure i read what i could before i just dove into the code to figure it out22:12
russellbit is, yes :)22:13
comstudthere's a little bit of diagrams i've started22:13
comstudthe preso at folsom22:13
comstudand then:22:13
russellbpresentation was good, faded from memory a little bit though :(22:13
russellbah cool, diagram is a good start22:14
russellbthat's all architecture is, boxes and arrows right?22:14
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comstudhaha ya22:15
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russellbcomstud: mind if i leave that link on the review?22:17
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comstudfor got it22:20
comstudgo for it22:20
comstud was talking in person at the same time22:20
comstudi gotta jump off22:20
comstudi'm planning on an update to the ML tonight too22:21
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openstackMeeting started Thu Aug  2 22:43:12 2012 UTC.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:43
jeblairclarkb: see if you can end the meeting22:43
jeblairclarkb: without adding yourself as a chair22:43
clarkboh I need to authenticate against the bot22:44
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clarkbdoesn't appear to work. I need to be the chair22:45
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jeblairok.  guess it's not automatic.  :/  try adding yourself as a chair then22:45
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meeting channel. See for schedule and for meeting logs"22:46
openstackMeeting ended Thu Aug  2 22:46:22 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:46
openstackMinutes (text):
clarkbworks as a chair22:46
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