Monday, 2012-09-03

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danwentanyone here for the quantum meeting on labor day?19:59
danwentugh, off by an hour :)20:01
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danwenthi folks20:59
danwentwho's around?20:59
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danwenti accidentally showed up for the meeting an hour early and thought that no one was going to attend :P21:00
nati_uenoHi ho21:00
arosenMight still happen :)21:00
salv-orlandoI am around… no holiday today this side of the world21:00
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openstackdanwent: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'21:01
danwent#startmeeting Quantum21:01
openstackMeeting started Mon Sep  3 21:01:17 2012 UTC.  The chair is danwent. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'quantum'21:01
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danwentsigh… going to take a while to get used to that :)21:01
zykes-what meeting is this?21:01
danwent#info Agenda:
danwentquantum team meeting21:01
danwent#topic announcements21:01
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danwentgaryk: hey21:01
danwent#info reminder about the summit:
garykdanwent: hi21:02
danwent#info and summit hotel rooms.  I hear they are booking up fast:
danwent#topic Folsom RC121:02
danwent#info RC1 status:
danwent#info RC1 still targeted for 9/10… just one week away from today21:03
ijws/booking/booked - I couldn't get a booking for a week when I tried the website21:03
danwentijw: ah, may have past.  I haven't booked yet either :(21:03
nati_uenoMariot looks still has rooms :)21:03
salv-orlandoljw: You can book at the openstack rate only between 14 and 19th21:03
danwentfirst off, I want to thank those that have been putting so much effort in over the week21:03
ijwThere's a load of hotels within a mile of the summit, we might just have to get some exercise ;)21:03
danwentfantastic work.  its still crunch time for one more week, but we've been making great progress21:04
danwentI have a couple goals that I'd like the team to shoot for before the OpenStack team meeting tomorrow:21:04
danwent1) have all "gap" issues closed. Only "true bugs" remain.21:04
danwentthis means closing out the testing-agent stuff21:05
danwentas well as the l3 multiple external networks21:05
danwentbasically, by tomorrow, if it any broke, we aren't going to fix it :)21:05
danwent2) move all 'confirmed' bugs to 'in progress', or drop from release21:05
danwentwe still have 7 bugs that are confirmed, but not in progress21:05
danwentwe should either get working on those, or get them out of RC121:06
nati_uenoI can take some21:06
danwent3) get number of 'confirmed' or 'in progress' bugs from 18 -> 1221:06
danwentthis means closing out current items that are in review21:06
danwentnati_ueno: great.  there are a couple unassigned items we'll discuss in a few minutes.  that's probably best place to start21:07
nati_uenodanwent: I got it21:07
danwentDo people think these goals are reasonable?  Or that we should also be tracking some other milestones?21:07
danwentI'd like to get it to the point that we have a small set of critical bugs we all are tracking21:07
markmcclainseems reasonable to me21:07
arosenSounds good to me.21:08
garykdanwent: sounds good21:08
danwentright now the total bug count is too high, and ttx will ding us :)21:08
nati_uenosounds good21:08
amotokisound reasonable21:08
danwentok, sounds good, thanks.21:08
danwentI also just wanted to highlight what quantum contributors are hopefully focusing on at this point21:08
danwent1) testing: including more advanced scenarios, negative testing (restarts, bad input, etc).21:08
danwent2) bug-fixing/bug-fix reviewing21:08
danwent3) documentation.21:09
danwentthe third is extra important, and we'll discuss it more below21:09
danwentbut its really key that we make sure we're testing beyond just the 'default configs'21:09
nati_uenoI see the gap at integration testing (Tempest)21:09
danwentnati_ueno: agreed.  mnewby already has discussed plans to work on this.21:10
danwentbut i'm not sure of timeline21:10
danwentwe also have the devstack scripts that we can continue to improve21:10
nati_uenodanwent: OK I'll talk with mnewby21:10
danwentnati_ueno: if you have cycles to work on this, that would be great.21:10
danwentnati_ueno: as you know, this has come up in the discussions we've been having with the CI folks as well.21:11
danwentso it would be very valuable21:11
nati_uenodanwent: Yes I'm going to start tempest21:11
mnewbyi/m doing tempest already, actually21:11
nati_uenomnewby: hi!21:11
danwentmnewby: i know you've been thinking a lot about quantum + tempest.21:11
danwentplease coordinate with nati_ueno on this, thanks.21:11
nati_uenomnewby: please assign some test case for me21:11
mnewbywill do21:11
danwentideally we can even get something running before the final folsom release, but we're not going to block the RC1 release on it.21:12
danwentwanted to quickly highlight some unassigne issues still pending for RC121:12
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1042397 in quantum "multi nic guests - cannot ping/ssh intermittently-quantum network " [Undecided,Incomplete]21:12
danwentwhile this bug was actually for Essex, the discussion highlighted some possible deficiencies in our implementation of gateways when VMs have multiple NICs21:13
danwentI think the original quantum API design can handle it, but I'm not sure if the implementation followed that approach.21:13
danwentwould be very helpful if someone could be point on following up on these issues21:13
danwentanyone interested?21:13
danwent(see bottom of bug thread)21:13
nati_ueno--no-gateway didn't work?21:14
arosendanwent: sure I'll go a head and take this one.21:14
danwenter, actually, middle of thread21:14
danwentnati_ueno: the use case is actually that there is a gateway on the second network, its just not the default gateway21:14
danwenti'm worried our implementation might always assume a gateway is a default gateway21:14
nati_uenodanwent: How about host_routes21:14
danwentand that we're not correctly populating host_routes by default21:15
danwentbut i'm not sure.  nati_ueno how about you comment on the bug and we'll figure out if more work is required21:15
danwentif so, then you and arosen can figure out who does the work.21:15
nati_uenodanwent: I got it. I'll read thread21:15
danwentthx.  you can mostly ignore the stuff from jay, as it is essex specific.  we should probably create a new bug if we decide there is also an issue with folsom (based on comments from salvatore and i)21:16
danwentok, next issue:
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1044083 in quantum "rootwrap filter for ip netns exec" [High,Confirmed]21:16
markmcclainI can work on this.. since I found the hole21:16
danwentcan anyone from red hat confirm/deny if jrd is working on this?21:16
danwentmarkmcclain: ok, great.21:16
danwentI've pinged jrd, and will loop you in, just to make sure no one duplicates work21:16
danwentbut I haven't heard anything from him implying he's working on it already21:17
ijw#1042348 can be knocked off of the folsom milestone21:17
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1039777 in quantum "update openstack-common for rc-1" [Medium,Confirmed]21:17
ijwOops, sorry21:17
garykdanwent: i can take this21:17
danwentgaryk: cool, thanks.21:18
danwentijw: can you clarify?21:18
danwentijw: ah, yes, i'm planning on removing that one21:19
danwentafter I respond to the last emails on the list21:19
ijwBeg pardon, I meant to press delete rather than enter ;)21:19
danwentijw: np21:19
danwentso onto key reviews21:19
danwentsalv-orlando, garyk, and I have been handling a lot of the L3 clean-up stuff, including devstack support21:20
danwentI think we're probably well-covered there for reviews, but just wanted to raise it as a key set of reviews.21:20
danwentThere also the quantum + nova security groups review:
danwentif your company has nova core devs, consider pinging them on this one.  we had a review from vish earlier, so hopefully we can get him to rereview, but we'll need one more21:21
danwentfinally, the quantum-debug test agent:
garykdanwent: (i have rebased again :()21:21
danwentnati_ueno, markmcclain , amotoki21:22
danwentand I have been reviewing this21:22
danwentnati_ueno: what is current status?21:22
nati_uenodanwent: I believe goal is near.21:22
danwentmarkmcclain, amotoki ?21:22
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amotokinear goal. about test agent, just one thing needs to be fixed.21:22
markmcclainI think we're super close… need to test the lastest changeset21:23
nati_uenoamotoki: I fixed your review already21:23
danwentok.  we need to merge this or drop it today, as thierry won't be happy about a BP still open :)21:23
amotokinati_ueno: one more thing to be fixed. I just found it.21:23
nati_uenoamotoki: markmcclain: ping me anytime :) Thank you for your review.21:24
danwenti will re-review once markmcclain and amotoki have had their concerns addressed21:24
nati_uenoamotoki: Aga,, I got it!21:24
danwentok, then I just wanted to highlight a few other small but important reviews:21:24
rkukuradanwent: forgot we had meeting today, disappeared from my calendar - was I needed for anything?21:24
danwentrkukura: not yet :)21:24
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danwentgaryk: will rereview l3-namespaces right after meeting21:24
danwentthis is the dhcp bug, should be simple review21:25
garykdanwent: tx21:25
danwentovs port update issue:
danwentAny other high priority reviews that people feel they need to call attention to?21:25
danwentas I mentioned earlier, by tomorrow, our goal should be that pretty much all reviews are small bug fixes21:26
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rkukuraI'll look at the ovs port update review21:26
danwentif not, then we have to consider if they are actually bug fixes21:26
danwentif in doubt, feel free to raise it to the wider team21:26
danwentrkukura: thx21:26
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danwentbut I again want to thank everyone for their effort… we're really making a ton of progress.  If we can shift that same effort to testing, bug-fixing, and documenting this week, I think we'll have a solid RC121:27
danwent#topic documentation21:27
danwentAs I mentioned, i think it would be good if people targeted spending at least 30% of their quantum time this week on docs21:28
danwentsalv-orlando did an extraordinary job on the API spec:
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danwentwe're trying to figure out if there's an easy link to send out that always has the lastest built PDF and HTML21:28
danwentexpect to see a note from salv-orlando soon21:28
danwentGary and I are leading things on the admin doc side21:29
danwentexpect to see emails later today with requests for your to write documentation21:29
danwentmy plan is to a have a wiki page where people can contribute content, with a few of our coordinating on overall doc structure + outline21:29
danwentinitial focus should be on what a user MUST do to successfully test basic use cases for RC121:30
danwentthen we can branch out to richer functionality and advanced use cases21:30
danwentI want to call out what a great job rkukura did on creating content around OVS plugin config:
danwentthat's a great example of the type of content we're looking for.21:30
danwentalso, if there's anyone who likes making diagrams, let me know21:31
danwentas our docs will need a few key ones21:31
danwenti'm also interesting in peoples thoughts on an open format for diagrams, so others can easily expand edit diagrams created by others.21:31
nati_uenoI prefer google docs21:31
danwentany comments/thoughts on docs?21:31
danwentnati_ueno: over wiki you mean?21:32
danwentnati_ueno: the collaborate tools are better, and formatting is easiere, I agree21:32
danwentwhat do others think?21:32
nati_uenodanwent: Yes. especially for diaglams21:32
danwentnati_ueno: ah… that's a good idea...21:32
danwentopen format, easy to know where the latest copy is.21:32
salv-orlandowe had this discussion earlier on. "Openess" requirement specified you did not need an account even if free for accessing documentation.21:33
danwentsalv-orlando: this is more for generating the docs21:33
danwentnot for accessing them.21:33
danwentor does the same rule apply?21:33
nati_uenoWe can convert google docs to pdf21:33
salv-orlandothe whole docs or the diagrams only?21:34
danwentI think we have two decisions21:34
nati_ueno+2 for the whole docs +1 for the diagrams only21:34
danwent1) where do we draft text/tables for documentation?  On wiki, or in google docs.  Final version will be in docbook.21:34
salv-orlandoThe whole documentation I reckon should be in the docbook format, in order to be posted on the Openstack website together with all the other guide.s21:34
danwent2) how do we create diagrams in a way that multiple people can edit them?21:34
salv-orlandodanwent: If you're talking just about drafting, I am happy with google docs. Wiki's a bit painful21:35
danwentsalv-orlando: yes, we're just discussing drafting mechanisms.21:35
danwenteverything will be published using standard mechanisms.21:35
danwentok so are folks ok with using google docs for drafting rather than a wiki?21:35
danwenti agree that we will waste less time on stupid formatting issues21:35
salv-orlandoFor diagrams we should ensure that whatever format we use it can be easily imported in the system from where the production docs are created. We don't want to do the work twice.21:36
danwentdefinitely.  that likely means that our drafting tool can export as PDF or PNG/21:36
ijwPNG is probably more useful.21:36
danwentOk, so hearing no real issues, we'll move forward with the plan to put this content on google docs.21:37
nati_uenoIn google doc, we can download diagrams as png.21:37
danwentin the case were we have things already drafted on the wiki, no need to rewrite21:37
danwentwe can just put a link in the google docs.21:37
danwentthen we will work with the openstack docs folks to get the content moved into docbook and the official repo.21:37
danwentok, any other thoughts on docs?21:38
danwentremember, good docs will save us a ton of time answering questions on the ML :)21:38
danwent#topic open discussion21:38
danwentjust a reminder to make sure you've updated the review days schedule for this week:
danwentalso, i've sent an email to the ubuntu folks already, but I think their Folsom quantum packaging needs some real love:
danwentit doesn't look like its been updated since july (I may be missing something), and so likely doesn't support dhcp or l3 agents21:39
danwenta few people have also reported some pretty fundemental bugs with ubuntu packaging that don't seem to exist in trunk21:40
danwent#help looking for people to help update ubuntu quantum packaging for folsom21:40
danwentany other open discussion?21:40
garykdansmith: fedora testday has been postponed a week to the 11th21:40
danwentgaryk: actually probably better timing for us.  that way you can basically use the RC121:41
garykdanwent: agreed21:41
rkukuraplease chime in on email thread on default mechanism for tenant networks with openvswitch on openstack-dev21:41
danwentok, thanks folks!21:42
danwentkeep up the great work, let's try to hit the goals mentioned above for the tuesday meeting21:42
openstackMeeting ended Mon Sep  3 21:42:47 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:42
openstackMinutes (text):
danwentnati_ueno: are you good on bugs?21:42
nati_uenodanwent: Yes. I read the thread brifly21:43
danwentnati_ueno: ok, great.  If you're looking for other items to bite off, let me know, but right now it sounds like you have a few items to look at.21:43
danwentnati_ueno: and  just keep an eye on the list of RC1 bugs, as we'll file more as we test more.21:43
nati_uenodanwent: Absolutely, which one do you want to give me?21:44
danwentnati_ueno: also, one question.  currently there doesn't seem to be a wayt o set the default DNS server that should be used for a deployment21:44
nati_uenodanwent: Ah default DNS is None. So we should change the spec21:44
danwentnati_ueno: please look at potential issues around host_routes first.  that seems top priority.21:44
danwentotherwise, I have a few things I could assign to you. don't want you getting bored :P21:45
danwentnati_ueno: yeah, was trying to figure out best way to handle that.21:45
markmcclaindanwent: there is a default way to set dns server21:45
zhuadlDan: just a reminder, Gliffy is a good online collaboration tools for diagram.
danwentmarkmcclain: does that show up in the API?21:46
danwentor will it just show up as empty in API, but VM will get DNS server anyway?21:46
markmcclainno that's a config option21:46
markmcclainbecause some providers want to restrict where DNS queries go21:46
danwentzhuadl: interesting… what are advantages to this over google docs?  i'm not very familiar with either?21:46
danwentright now i'd probably prefer just to keep with one tool, being google docs21:47
danwentmarkmcclain: so in some cases the dnsnameservers set by the tenant in the API are ignored?21:47
nati_uenoI converted spec to google doc. Is this works?
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nati_uenoAh dnsmasq_dns_server is not used now.21:48
markmcclaindanwent: sorry they're layered21:48
danwentnati_ueno: actually, we already have API spec in docbook21:48
danwentwe only need to use google docs for admin content21:48
nati_uenodanwent: I got it.21:49
markmcclainthe dhcp server will supply dns servers in this order21:49
danwentsince doing that all via reviews and merges would be a huge pain when there are tons of changes.21:49
markmcclain1) subnet options 2) dnsmasq_dns_server 3) /etc/resolv.conf of Quantum host21:49
salv-orlandonati_ueno: it looks great, but the api spec is fairly mature and in openstack/netconn-api trunk at the moment. Fixes and updates might be posted as patches against this repo.21:49
danwentsalv-orlando: yup21:49
markmcclainis the layering breaking down?21:50
nati_uenosalv-orlando: OK I found typo in wiki page, I'll check openstack/netconn-api  also21:50
danwentmarkmcclain: i'm curious about the benefits of this vs. just letting the provider specify an API default, and then letting them use policy to determine whether a tenant can tweak it.  What are the relative advantages/disadvantages in your mind?21:50
salv-orlandoSure. There will be plenty of typos… perhaps have a good look and then post a bigger patch (and add me as a reviewer)21:51
danwentalso, not critical that we decide this at the meeting, but it was something that I wanted to make sure we dicuss before RC121:51
nati_uenosalv-orlando: I got it21:53
markmcclaindanwent: yeah.. being more explict would be better.. should add change the flag to reflect it21:53
salv-orlandodanwent: what do you mean by api default? A value that is used for populating dns_namservers when it's not specified?21:54
danwentmarkmcclain, nati_ueno: ok, i'm going to file a bug on this, so we can capture discussion there.  we can reject bug as invalid if we don't want to chang antyhing21:54
markmcclainalso should prob tweak dnsmasq call to ignore /etc/resolv.conf21:54
markmcclainthe prev behavior came from nova21:54
danwentmarkmcclain: on resolve.conf… yeah, probably.  seems unexpected21:54
nati_uenomarkmcclain: That's bug!21:54
danwentok, i will file something, assign it to mark.   we can discuss what if anything needs to change, and who can do it.  sound reasonable?21:55
nati_uenomarkmcclain: It should be high or critical bug, IMO21:55
salv-orlandosounds good to me.21:55
markmcclainsounds good to me21:55
nati_uenosounds good21:55
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1045537 in quantum "agree on and fix DNS server provided by DHCP if non provided by API" [High,Confirmed]21:57
danwentok, talk to you all later!21:58
zhuadldan: I just compared diagram tools b/w google docs and gliffy.  the former is very simple to use. the latter is much more fancy.21:59
nati_uenok TTYL!21:59
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