Thursday, 2012-09-20

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nijaba#startmeeting Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#meetingtopic Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#chair nijaba15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 20 15:00:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:00
openstackCurrent chairs: nijaba15:00
nijabaHello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting?15:00
nijabaonly us 2?15:00
jd__looks like a party to me15:00
nijabawe should have done the meeting f2f last night ;)15:01
jd__yeah :)15:01
nijaba#topic actions from previous meeting15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
nijaba#topic dhellmann write up details of blueprint
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann write up details of blueprint (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
jd__i think Doug will show up15:01
spnI am there..15:01
nijabahey spn!15:01
jd__hi spn15:01
spnsorry I was pinging on other channel15:02
spnjd__:  spn15:02
spnjd__: says hi15:02
nijabaso I am not sure dhellman was able to work on this item last week15:02
spnmeeting at this time is awesome15:02
spnnijaba: Hi Nick15:03
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gmbHalf here; also OTP.15:04
nijabahello gmb :)15:04
gmbHi Nick, fancy seeing you here :)15:04
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nijabaso, dhellmann is not around and the last mod to the wikie page is 2012-08-27 20:58:2515:04
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nijabaso I guess we'll have to forward this item to next week15:05
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nijaba#action dhellmann write up details of blueprint
nijabaand thats all the topics we had for this week15:05
nijaba#topic open discussion15:06
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:06
nijabaanything, anyone?15:06
spnI submitted a micro sized patch last week to add Flask to files/pips15:06
spndoug thinks it is not required since he defined it in ceilometer/pip-requires..15:07
spnI dont see it working that way..15:07
jd__could you elaborate?15:07
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jd__patch url maybe?15:07
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spnceilometer-api requires Flask 0.915:07
spnI submitted a patch to enable ceilometer-api through devstack15:08
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spnbut it does not run.. since Flask 0.9 which is a dependecy does not get installed15:08
spnthroug pip-requires defined in ceilometer branch..15:08
spnbut if I add it in devstack/files/pips/ceilometer-api , it forces itself to be installed and ceilometer-api works15:09
jd__I didn't encountered this when installing devstack15:10
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spnThere is a mail from doug.. saying..15:10
spn"Patch Set 1:15:10
spnFlask is listed as a dependency, with a version number, in the tools/pip-requires file in the ceilometer source code. Doesn't that cause Flask to be installed when devstack runs "sudo python develop" for ceilometer?15:10
* dhellmann sorry I'm late15:11
spnjd__: I tried multiple times.. and I dont see Flask getting installed..15:11
spndhellmann: hello15:11
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jd__spn: you're right, I didn't tried ceilometer-api, it's not installed15:11
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jd__spn: I can't say if your patch is the good solution, but there's a problem indeed15:11
jd__hi dhellmann15:12
nijabaHey doug!15:12
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spnthe new devstack version will get the ceilometer-api also .. but it will not run15:12
dhellmannI don't understand why flask is a problem but the other depdencies work correctly15:12
dhellmannis flask the only piece missing15:12
jd__dhellmann: dunno either but I confirm it's a problem :)15:12
spnas far as I know it is..15:12
spnI am kind of jittery to create a pips folder just for our Flask in devstack15:13
jd__dhellmann: I think pip-requires is not used at all by actually, only by tox; I miss stevedore too15:13
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dhellmannah, jd__ might be right15:14
dhellmannI thought there was some magic going on to load the pip-requires file into setup.py15:14
dhellmannbut install_requires isn't being set at all15:15
jd__me too, I like to think about magic when talking about setuptools15:15
jd__yes we miss that probably15:15
dhellmannspn: check the use of openstack.common.setup in the nova file15:15
dhellmannthat's what we need to do15:15
jd__def parse_requirements(requirements_files=['requirements.txt',15:16
jd__                                           'tools/pip-requires']):15:16
jd__exactly :-)15:16
dhellmannyep, that's it15:16
dhellmannso the correct fix is to do that in our file, not to change devstack15:16
spnI will look into it..15:16
jd__spn: if you prefer I can come up with a change myself15:16
spnI will ping you (dhellmann) and jd__ if I have questions..15:16
spnjd__: I will do it..15:17
jd__spn: ok great!15:17
spnjd__: please bear with me. .I am bit new here.. :)15:17
jd__spn: no problem :)15:17
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spnjd_: thanks..15:17
dhellmannthanks, spn15:17
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spnOne more q? Is someone already looking into the glance metering part?15:18
dhellmannI think jd__ submitted a patch for that earlier today15:18
jd__yes, the pollster is on a good way15:19
spnjd__: cool..15:19
jd__I've started to work on notifier, but stoped for now because somebody is already working on it15:19
jd__eglynn_ actually15:19
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eglynn_yep, working on it15:19
jd__nijaba: glance notification listener15:20
nijabak, thanks15:20
eglynn_should have something by tmrw15:20
jd__eglynn_: great15:20
dhellmannnijaba: my action item from last week was to write up details about a blueprint. the results are at
jd__eglynn_: I've sent a patch to Glance to clean the notification, because it would send error on the info bus :)15:20
eglynn_jd__: cool, looking ...15:20
nijabadhellmann: so this is complete from your perspective, I was not sure15:21
jd__eglynn_: FYI15:21
dhellmannnijaba: I believe so, but if someone else ends up trying to implement it they may think otherwise ;-)15:21
nijabaok, thanks15:21
nijabaI remove the earlier added action for next week then15:22
nijabaI *will* remove...15:22
dhellmannok, thanks15:22
spnshould there be an action on me for pip-requires issue.. ?15:23
nijaba#agreed dhellmann action for this week was completed.15:23
nijabaspn: feel free to add one for yourself15:23
nijabause: #action spn ...15:23
jd__or better, open a bug report and assign it to yourself: )15:24
spn#action spn  fix Flask pickup when is used15:24
nijabait depends if you want us to talk about it next week or not...15:24
spnjd__: okies.. I will do that tooo15:24
spnnijaba: surely we want to fix that problem..15:24
nijabajd__: #action spn to open a bug about ... and assign it to himself ;)15:25
spnnijaba: I will do it..15:25
nijabaspn: was more a joke than a real action for you ;)15:26
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dhellmannI want to make a quick disclosure, if jd__ hasn't already said something, that DreamHost has contracted with jd__ to work on some ceilometer features we consider high priority for our launch.15:26
nijababut thanks15:26
dhellmannwe will be doing all of the work through the normal code review and bug reporting processes (in the open)15:26
nijabadhellmann: that's excellent news I think!  Congrats jd__!15:26
nijabawell done dreamhost15:27
spnsuperb.. what are those features btw15:27
dhellmanna couple of the changes he has submitted recently were on our list, and I think others' lists, too15:27
jd__thanks! :)15:27
jd__glad to work with dhellmann on that15:27
dhellmannnova notification on delete, integration with glance and cinder so far15:27
dhellmannwe're still working on our full list of priorities15:27
dhellmannI have to say it's going really well so far, so I'm glad we were able to get some of his time!15:28
spndhellmann: is this list of priorities open?15:28
dhellmannspn: It's not really a secret, I guess, but the list isn't in a public place right now15:29
jd__FWIW I've started to work on cinder notification/pollster15:29
nijabaI am sure we'll be able to deduce it from the list of patch jd__does in the next few weeks :)15:29
jd__hehe :->15:29
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dhellmannspn: we also have on our list removing the direct db access where possible and adding authentication to the api15:30
nijabaspn: and don't expect anything related to object storage...15:31
spnAre you referring to the collector/ where we have a FIXME flag?15:31
nijabaanything else to cover?15:32
spnnijaba: is there any reason not to expect object storage.. sorry I am not aware of history15:32
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nijabaspn: from dreamhost?  they are rolling their own using ceph and not swif15:33
dhellmannspn: nijaba likes to rib me about our use of ceph for object storage instead of swift15:33
nijabaspn: from dreamhost? they are rolling their own using ceph and not swift15:33
zykes-when will there be some integration for horizon ?15:33
spnnijaba: ;) got it..15:33
jd__dhellmann: you don't want pollster for ceph into ceilometer?15:33
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nijabadhellmann: not sure it is ribbing, more a distintive feature from my pov15:33
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jd__I though ceph was backed by Canonical anyway, nijaba? :p15:34
dhellmannjd__: the folks who did the DreamObjects project set up their own metering solution as a one-off, so it is handled for now. we may change that later.15:34
jd__dhellmann: ok!15:34
dhellmannnijaba: all good natured, in any case! :-)15:34
nijabajd__: so far, as a backend for cinder :)15:34
nijababut RADOS_GW just made it in main for 12.10...15:35
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nijabaok, we are getting slighly off topic.  anything else on topic?15:36
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spnlast q15:36
spnsome one is already working on the chef thing for ceilometer?15:37
zykes-anyone got a answer for my question ?15:37
nijabaspn: jaypipes should be15:37
nijabazykes-: what integration would you expect?15:37
dhellmannzykes-: what sort of integration? showing details?15:37
nijabazykes-: I was thinking about a plugin to show some basic info15:37
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nijabazykes-: but you may have something else in mind?15:38
spndhellmann: I had this question sometime back about showing stuff in horizon15:38
nijabaspn: zykes-: it's on the roadmap15:38
jd__there will probably be a point where the API will have to be opened for users to access their data15:38
dhellmannhorizon integration isn't on our list of priorities for DreamHost, but I definitely agree we need it for ceilometer at some point15:38
jd__that could lead to horizon integration I imagine15:38
dhellmannthe API is not fully baked yet, so it may be premature15:38
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dhellmannhowever, I would be interested in seeing some blueprints and other design documents describing desired views, so we could start thinking about requirements and implementation15:39
spnso it is like the billing front end or just showing some ceilometer data?15:39
dhellmannspn: I think we should limit ourselves to showing ceilometer data15:39
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nijabaspn: I don;t thing we'll ever have a full billng front end...15:39
nijabadhellmann: agreed :)15:40
spnnijaba: it is more of template/policy driven thing specific to organizations15:40
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dhellmannalthough it might make sense to think about a way to let a plugin add rate info15:40
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nijabadhellmann: it all depends on the billing model15:41
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spnsome time backk. I tried this.. added a billing tab and defined a template policy which can be edited by admin tenet15:41
dhellmannnijaba: agreed. The DreamHost rate plans are a little complex to calculate15:41
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nijabaspn: It would be nice to have stuff like this as examples, but could never be made universal, I think15:42
dhellmannnijaba: exactly15:42
spnhad a kind of very generic template.. but there is a limit to making it generic15:43
jd__dhellmann: that's nice if it's complicated, at least it will force us to make a good API :)15:43
nijabaspn: contrib/examples are welcome.  feel free to submit15:43
spnnijaba: ok..15:43
dhellmannjd__: when we're all done with the project, I'll see if I can write it up15:43
jd__sounds great15:43
* nijaba crosses dhellmann's fingers ;)15:44
nijabaanything else?15:44
nijabagoing once...15:45
nijabagoing twice...15:45
nijabaok.... we are done for tdoay!  Thanks a lot everyone!15:45
spnthanks for answering my questions15:45
jd__thanks guys15:45
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meeting Channel ||"15:45
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 20 15:45:53 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:45
dhellmannand thanks spn for asking questions and pitching in!15:45
openstackMinutes (text):
spnsee u folks had a great time15:46
spndhellmann:my priv15:46
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davidkranzAny qa'ers there?17:02
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davidkranzAny one seen Jay recently?17:03
jaypipesdavidkranz: sorry guys.17:04
jaypipesI'm swamped.17:04
dwalleckthe man, the legend himself :-)17:04
dwalleckDon't worry, I hear you. Me too17:04
jaypipestorandu (Sean Gallagher) on my team has been investigating PyVows and DTest this week, but I have not made any progress.17:04
davidkranz#startmeeting qa17:05
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 20 17:05:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is davidkranz. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:05
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:05
dwalleckjaypipes: Did you get what I sent this weekend?17:05
dwalleckStill trying to find time to get it inside the Tempest proper framework, but I wanted to throw something out at least17:05
jaypipesdwalleck: this weekend?17:06
jaypipesdwalleck: no, I don't think so17:06
dwalleckjaypipes: I think17:06
dwalleckUnless I'm going crazy and I'm only thinking I send emails...grrr17:06
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dwalleckfrickin hell17:07
dwalleck"This message hasn't been sent."17:07
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dwalleckI love you too Outlook =P17:07
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dwalleckthere, that's how to send a real email17:08
davidkranzdwalleck: Are you sending just to Jay or the list?17:09
jaypipesdwalleck: rock on. I will forward to torandu17:09
jaypipesdwalleck: might as well send to list, eh?17:09
dwalleckOriginal was to just Jay. I can send it to everyone if you don't mind it's not in the Tempest framework. This is just a proof of concept17:09
davidkranzdwalleck: Understood.17:10
dwalleckI've been trying to push through the reviews currently on deck17:11
dwalleckI don't want folks to continuously have to rebase17:11
davidkranzdwalleck: Thanks for that.17:11
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dwalleckPlus hopefully once I finish reviews, I'll write some of my own code :)17:12
dwalleckI think that's probably what I'll use half the conference for. Live coding damnit!17:12
jaypipesdwalleck: I asked Sean to look into the code review backlog -- and if I get through some of the things on my plate today, I'll give it a try as well17:12
dwalleckWe do seem to have some pretty significant XML coverage now. Those guys really went all out17:13
davidkranzdwalleck: Yeah. That's great.17:14
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davidkranzeglynn_: Do you know anything about that ticket where a nova return code changed from 404 to 400 (or not)?17:14
dwalleckdavidkrankz: Was that in test_authorization? One of my guys mentioned something along those lines yesterday17:15
davidkranzdwalleck: There were two of them. One was actually changed and is fine now. The other is the problem
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 963248 in nova "Return code for rebuild with non-existent image changed" [Undecided,Invalid]17:16
davidkranzSee the last comment.17:16
eglynn_davidkranz: I don't know how the regression crept in, the original change to the response code was quite a while ago17:16
davidkranzeglynn_: But it seems that it didn't change and is still returning 404 based on the recent gating run after tempest was changed but failed.17:17
davidkranzeglynn_: Is it possible that a different part of the server code is involved?17:18
eglynn_davidkranz: when did the tempest test start failing, last couple days, or?17:19
davidkranzIt only fails when the tempest test is changed to expect 400 and unskipped. See
eglynn_davidkranz: a-ha, I see ... lemme look into the history17:21
davidkranzeglynn_: OK, thanks.17:21
davidkranzAny one have any other items to discuss?17:22
dwalleckCan the conference be tomorrow?17:22
dwalleckAnd have full kegs in each room? :)17:22
davidkranzdwalleck: :)17:22
dwalleckJust kidding. Just looking forward to getting back in a room with you guys to brainstorm17:23
davidkranzdwalleck: I'm looking forward to the conference as well.17:23
davidkranzdwalleck: Are full kegs in each room a change to the conference format?17:24
dwalleckeh, who knows =P17:24
dwalleckWell, I'll get myself back to code reviews then if there's nothing else17:24
dwalleckIs the idea still that we'll take the time at the conference to discuss various options on runners and such?17:25
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dwalleckI didn't try to schedule any time as it seemed that unconferences worked better last time17:25
davidkranzdwalleck: I think it would be hard to formalize this enough right now for an actual conference session.17:26
davidkranzIf that is all I will close the meeting.17:28
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dwallecksounds good17:30
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meeting Channel ||"17:30
dwalleckI'm sending out that PyVows PoC I mentioned in a sec17:30
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 20 17:30:19 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:30
openstackMinutes (text):
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zyluonati_ueno: hi17:31
nati_uenoIs there anyone who wanna talk about ?17:31
nati_uenohi zyluo!17:31
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zyluomnewby is also around i think17:32
nati_uenoI'm grad to hear you are also working on quantum tempest17:32
nati_uenoping mnewby17:33
mnewbyi'm here17:33
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nati_uenozyluo: Could you share your work on ?17:33
nati_uenoWe have meeting last week. And we agreed test strategies17:34
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zyluonati_ueno: sure as soon as I get things straighten out17:34
nati_uenozyluo: Thanks!17:34
nati_ueno#startmeeting quantum-tempest17:34
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 20 17:34:54 2012 UTC.  The chair is nati_ueno. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:34
nati_uenois this works?17:34
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'quantum_tempest'17:34
nati_uenooh its works! This is useful17:35
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nati_ueno#info Current discussion summary
nati_uenoOk I wanna talk about testing tool until waiting zyluo's update17:36
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nati_ueno#topic testing tool17:36
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nati_uenomnewby: I wanna hear your idea about quantum-debug command17:36
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zyluowhat does that command do?17:40
zyluoand where is it going to be located? Tempest or Quantum17:41
nati_uenoIt create port for test.17:41
zyluoic i'll take a look17:41
nati_uenoWe can test connectibility without VM17:41
zyluooh cool17:41
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nati_uenoIt uses namespace function, so each testing environments are isolated17:42
nati_uenozyluo: Thanks17:42
nati_uenohmm it looks mnewby isn't here.17:44
mnewbysorry, i'm on a call...17:44
nati_uenomnewby: Oh I got it :)17:45
zyluoThen we can also extend this to test isolation, right?17:45
mnewbynati_euno: ok, done17:46
nati_uenoMay I ask meaning of test isolation?17:46
nati_uenomnewby: k17:46
mnewbycan you please ask your question of me again?17:46
nati_uenoOK In previous meeting, you said something is needed to quantum-debug command17:47
nati_uenoSo I wanna here your idea17:47
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nati_uenoto make the command more useful for testing17:47
mnewbyOn the subject of namespace isolation, the current debug agent is not useful because a) it requires that tempest be running on the same box as the target and b) it requires sudo privileges to do so.17:47
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mnewbyThe debug agent needs to be able to run remotely if it is to be useful.17:48
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nati_uenoFor a) quantum-debug command can be run remotely17:48
mnewbyLikely provided as a privileged quantum extension.17:48
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nati_uenoI agree for b)17:48
mnewbynati_ueno: it can be called via an api?  I wasn't sure of that.17:48
nati_uenomnewby: Ah you mean rpc. If so it not now. But we can use ssh for testing17:49
mnewbynati_ueno: again, that isn't really acceptable for tempest testing.17:50
mnewbynati_ueno: ssh'ing into a vm, yes.17:50
mnewbyssh'ing into a host, not so much.17:50
nati_uenomnewby: I agree it is current tempest scope17:50
nati_uenoWe should not use host ssh for blackbox testing17:51
nati_uenoHowever we can have whitebox testing which has ssh for host17:51
nati_uenoRohit is also working stackmonkey testing tool which kills openstack or mysql processes during test17:52
nati_uenoSo IMO we can extend scope of tempest17:52
nati_uenoWe can put it on different directories17:52
nati_uenoI agree for rpc is more useful and cool. But I feel implementing rpc is too much for testing..17:53
zyluomakes sense to me17:54
nati_uenozyluo: Thanks17:55
nati_uenomnewby: How about you?17:56
mnewbyI have my doubts17:56
mnewbyI think we should be talking to Jay and the other tempest folks about this.17:56
mnewbyHaving an unlimited scope for a project has the potential to make things very complicated indeed.17:57
mnewbyPlus, huge issue.17:57
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mnewbyMetadata service doesn't work with namespaces.17:57
mnewbySo compute is basically non-functional with namespaces enabled.17:57
mnewbyCan't do all kinds of configuration, including setting password and ssh keys.17:57
mnewbyHave you seen the bug.17:57
nati_uenoNot yet. But I agree for you.17:58
nati_uenoMay be it is too fast to test namespace which looks clearly broken17:58
nati_uenoSo I agree basic testing without namespace is more high priority now17:59
mnewbyIs there a need for the debug agent if namespaces aren't working?17:59
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nati_uenomnewby: no need17:59
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mnewbySo, moot then.17:59
mnewbyon the upside, ssh'ing should work properly then.18:00
mnewbywithout the debug agent.18:00
nati_uenoIt depends on topology18:01
mnewbylaunch vm -> configure floating ip -> ssh18:01
nati_uenoAh I agree for floating ip18:01
mnewbywe'll need to ensure that devstack can be configured with l3 and an external network18:02
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mnewbyi'm wondering if we need to allow quantum to be queried as to what capabilities it is configured with...18:03
mnewbyI was asking dan that in the monday meeting.18:03
mnewbylike an extension18:03
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nati_uenoAh that's needed18:04
nati_uenoIMO, namespace support with nova is needed. I wanna test network connection without floating ip also in future.18:05
mnewbynamespace support with nova is needed, of course.18:05
mnewbywon't happen for folsom18:05
nati_uenoI agree18:06
mnewbydid you see what i wrote in the recent review?18:06
nati_uenoWhich review?18:06
mnewbyThe fix for non-namespaced metadata server support:
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mnewbyThe relevant comment:  Supporting overlapping network spaces should be considered out-of-scope for this change. The metadata service identifies which instance to return data for by the ip address of the caller. Identifying what network the instance is calling from, in a secure manner, will likely require making a proxy for the metadata service available on each network. Such a proxy would be able to securely determine the network id and pass it on to18:07
mnewbymetadata service. This would require not only creating and configuring the proxy, but also adding (presuming it doesn't already exist) an authenticated request path to the metadata service.18:07
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nati_uenoI'll take a look now18:07
mnewbyDefinitely doable to support namespaces with nova…  Looks to be a lot of work, though.18:07
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nati_uenohmm situation looks bad..18:08
nati_uenoLet's fix it on G18:08
nati_uenoAnd let's focus tempest testing without namespace18:08
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nati_uenofor folsom18:08
nati_uenoOK I could understand mnewby's point18:09
mnewbyok, cool18:09
zykes-Will Metadata service not be supported on namespaced networks ?18:09
nati_uenoLet's move zyluo's one18:09
mnewbyzykes-: Correct18:09
zykes-eh, ooook18:09
nati_uenoaha sorry typo18:10
zykes-doesn't that break like lots of features ?18:10
mnewbyzykes-: Like what?18:10
nati_ueno#topic zyluo's WIP18:10
zykes-mnewby: cloud-init ?18:10
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zykes-isn't it the metadata service in Nova you mean ?18:10
mnewbyzykes-:  Yes. The funny thing is that the metadata service was completely broken until i added support this week.  And nobody had noticed.18:11
zykes-so it won't be supported at all in Folsom ?18:11
zykes-even with or without namespacing ?18:11
mnewbyIt will be supported18:11
mnewbyThe changes went into quantum and nova yesterday18:11
mnewbyand will be part of folsom18:12
mnewbyNon-namespaced only, though.18:12
nati_uenomnewby: +118:12
zykes-mnewby: that kinda sucks ;p18:12
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nati_uenoOK let's talk about zyluo's update18:12
nati_uenoAhhh he is left18:12
nati_uenoOK mnewby do you have other topics?18:13
mnewbynati_ueno: I'm afraid I have nothing to report.18:13
mnewbyI've been busy getting a working configuration (and finding bugs in the process).18:13
nati_uenomnewby: I got it! I have no progress also.18:13
nati_uenomnewby: Thanks!18:13
nati_ueno#endmeeting quantum_tempest18:13
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 20 18:13:57 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:13
openstackMinutes (text):
zykes-Would it be alot of work to add the functionality to the metadata stuff with namespacing or ?18:14
mnewbyThank you!18:14
zykes-mnewby or nati_ueno .18:14
nati_uenozykes-: k18:14
mnewbyzykes-: Lots of work18:14
zykes-mnewby: why ?18:14
mnewbyzykes-: Did you see my comment?18:14
mnewbyI can repost...18:14
zykes-is it a route problem or something ?18:15
mnewbyactually, just look at the review:
mnewbySearch for @aaron18:15
mnewbyLet me know if that answers your question.18:15
mnewbyBtw, there are already people working on fixing the issue, it's just not simple enough to make it into folsom.18:15
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zykes-it just sucks that when you add feature A it breaks with feature B or features.18:16
mnewbyzykes-:  Nobody on quantum had any visibility on why the metadata service was necessary until this week18:17
zykes-Just saying. It's sad :(18:17
mnewbyI agree completely.18:17
mnewbyIt's a reminder that we can't work in silos.18:17
mnewbyWe need to be able to work with openstack in more than a non-trivial way.18:18
mnewbyusing the default cirros image was a major culprit in this whole debacle18:18
mnewbysince it has a known password, and nobody was questioning why the password that nova reported wasn't getting set in the newly launched vm18:18
mnewbyanyway, it will happen.18:19
zykes-It's the same thing with the floating ip stuff, it will impact users or deployers since stuff is missing or feature incompatible...18:19
zykes-floating ip in quantum isn't available in Horizon18:19
mnewbynova integration is missing, i gather?18:19
mnewbyi don't understand why we couldn't implement that.18:19
mnewbyit should be a passthrough.  just update the quantum network api implementation in nova18:20
mnewbyhas this been discussed as not possible for folsom?18:20
zykes-dunno yet, think so.18:20
zykes-it's not in the RC at least18:20
mnewbyThat's a blocker as far as I'm concerned.  wtf18:20
zykes-yeah, or in Horizon you can't assign a floating ip to a project or to a vm if using Quantum, again the same "issue" I think as with the metadata stuff, there's a change in component A which breaks or leaves something missing in B18:21
mnewbyWhy are people giving a shit about provider networks if horizon is borked??18:21
mnewbyQuantum clearly isn't ready for production in it's current state.18:21
mnewbyBut it's close.18:22
zykes-i'm not out to be a douch, but these things should really be concidered I would think before releasing something that's supposed to be "Stable"18:22
mnewbyIt's the little details that need doing, most of the big stuff is there.18:22
mnewbyI agree with you.18:22
mnewbyLack of testing is the major issue.18:22
zykes-I don't reckon a thing as just stable if it's code stable, but also feature stable as in everything should work without hickups, at least in core stuff18:22
zykes-and last I checked both Horizon and Quantum are core projects.18:23
zykes-I'm trying to push OpenStack locally here and at my job, and I can say that stuff like this doesn't exactly help :p18:23
mnewbyWell, just don't use quantum.18:23
mnewbyDoes nova network not fit the bill?18:23
zykes-uhm, it's like saying just don't use Horizon ;)18:23
mnewbyNot really.18:24
mnewbyQuantum enables advanced networking, but for basic stuff nova networks works fine.18:24
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zykes-I think so, the networking model with Quantum is much better with OVS and the L3 stuff then Nova Network18:24
mnewbyDepends, though18:24
mnewbyWhat are you trying to accomplish?18:24
mnewbyIf it can be done with VLANs, then you don't really need quantum.18:24
mnewbyAnd if you don't need quantum, Horizon works fine.18:25
zykes-Still, that's not a valid point for this happening, agree? :)18:25
mnewbyOh, I definitely agree.18:25
zykes-someone should be kicking someone when this happens ;p18:25
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mnewbyYup.  We're just too late in the release cycle for the kick to do any good.18:26
mnewbyI'm still climbing the curve on compute, and quantum for that matter.18:26
mnewbyBut my goal is to ensure that we can have tempest tests for deployed openstack and validate quantum properly.18:26
zykes-heh, I think that there should be a better feature alignment with stuff that afftects multiple projects to ensure not just stability but also usability out of the box18:27
mnewbyTotally agree.  And automated testing via tempest is the way to accomplish that.18:27
zykes-not just tempest, but think of the end user also sitting using a web ui ;)18:28
zykes-ehm, cli.18:28
mnewbyWell, selenium tests, too.18:28
mnewbyThe point is that manual testing, as much of the quantum stuff has been, just doesn't scale.18:28
mnewbyI can see why it's hard to automate, but without it we're going to keep seeing regressions.18:28
zykes-would it be hard for a deployer to say pick the Nova Metadata Proxy if it get's released in early Grizzly and use it ?18:29
zykes-I think it would be a thing to have.18:29
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mnewbyIt's a bit compliated...18:29
mnewbyAs per my comment, I'm pretty sure the nova metadata service will have to be updated as well.18:29
mnewbySo not as simple as - add this piece and config.18:30
zykes-I can emphasise enough how much I hate going to people when promoting features and the "cool" bits, and then when deepdiving on each release have to say that X stuff breaks because of Y.18:30
zykes-I understand it can happen with non-core stuff, but it shouldn't be happening in a core piece of the software :/18:31
mnewbyI'm assuming you mean 'can't' - and you and I are in complete agreement on that.18:31
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mnewbyBut this is opensource.18:31
zykes-and ?18:32
mnewbyI'm not saying it can't be done better, but it can be pretty challenging to get things done in a consistent way.  So many developers (or not enough), a huge range of capabilities, tight deadlines.18:32
mnewbyEverything is constantly evolving.18:32
mnewbyI'm not trying to make excuses, but there are a lot of factors that can make consistency on a project like openstack a challenge.18:33
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mnewbyanyway, have to run18:34
zykes-well well, i'm just trying to state that missing / incompatible core features hurts people trying to front up the cooler features where the project isn't that much heard of18:34
mnewbyI agree.18:34
mnewbyAnd i still think testing is the problem.18:34
zykes-mnewby: last question though, would changing the metadata api and adding the proxy be a serious change? Like version breaker.18:35
mnewbyIf we had tests that ran against nova+nova network and didn't run against nova+quantum, it would be clear what the priorities should be.18:35
mnewbyWithout that, it's easy to get lost in the weeds.18:35
mnewbyzykes-: no breakage.18:35
mnewbychanges would be additive18:36
mnewbymetadata service would get some additional apis18:36
zykes-why not release a .1 version r something ?18:36
mnewbyquantum would get a new service to configure18:36
zykes-then at least it would be "working" with all features.18:36
mnewbyzykes-: It may be possible.  At least at the source distribution level, I can see it.18:36
zykes-I think that should be done..18:37
mnewbyNot sure if the packaging policies of distros will allow it, though.18:37
zykes-heh, who knows..18:37
mnewbyMaybe ask someone like ttx?18:37
zykes-I can ask ubuntu folks. :p18:37
mnewbyIf anyone knows, he will.18:37
zykes-or ttx18:37
mnewbyEither way, I encourage you to dig deeper.18:37
mnewbyIf it's possible, you're right, it should be done.18:38
mnewbyPersonally I'm not too invested in upstream packages.18:38
zykes-heh, how much time would it take to make the changes / additions ?18:38
mnewbyNot sure.  Maybe post the query to the bug?18:38
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1038098 in quantum "Metadata service does not function when there are overlapping network address spaces" [High,Confirmed]18:38
zykes-How would it be done though mnewby, add a proxy thing to each network or smth and have it proxy the request with a network id + the ip ?18:41
mnewbyzykes-: That's the shape if it, yes.18:41
mnewbyThere's no other safe way to query the metadata service.18:42
mnewbyCan't trust any info the vm gives, so the network is the id.18:42
zykes-wouldn't that mean a buckload of processes ?18:42
mnewbyA service could listen on multiple ports.18:42
zykes-multiple ip's you mean ?18:43
mnewbyports/ips - same difference18:43
mnewbyit's really an ovs port it would be listening on, though18:43
mnewbyport per namespace.18:44
zykes-i'm gonna try to hit ttx with this when he gets on :p18:44
mnewbypresumably more than one service, though, for ha18:44
mnewbyi recommend talking to the dreamhost guys first.18:44
mnewby(bug implementers)18:44
mnewbyThey could provide better technical info.18:45
zykes-who ? :p18:45
zykes-can't see DH mentioned there18:45
mnewbycarl perry is dreamhost18:46
mnewbyand the other guy involved is mark mcclain18:46
mnewbyalso dreamhost18:46
mnewbyeither one should be able to answer your questions18:47
zykes-I though that marmc was redhat ;p18:47
mnewbythat's Mark McLaughlin18:48
mnewbydifferent guy18:48
mnewbyok, have to run.18:50
mnewbybest of luck!18:50
mnewbybtw, are you going to be at the summit?18:50
zykes-mnewby: nope, i live in norway (:18:50
zykes-in the "City of Oil" kinda (Stavanger)18:51
mnewbyzykes-: ah, ok.18:51
mnewbyzykes-: I'm actually in europe right now, too.18:51
zykes-mnewby: where ? :18:51
mnewbycurrently amsterdam18:51
zykes-going to the us or ?18:51
mnewbyi'm actually based in california18:51
mnewbybut on a working holiday18:51
mnewbywill be back for the summit18:52
mnewbywas thinking of heading to norway, but i heard it was really expensive so i'm going to save it for another trip18:52
mnewbymy grandfather was norwegian, btw.  from oslo18:52
mnewbyi hear the fjords are like nothing else.18:52
mnewbyi'm from british columbia, in canada.  so i appreciate the rugged outdoors :)18:53
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mnewbywhen i make it to norway, i'll be sure to look you up and buy you a beer.18:53
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mnewbyok, ttyl.18:54
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vishy#startmeeting nova21:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 20 21:00:47 2012 UTC.  The chair is vishy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:00
vishyanyone else here?21:01
vishyttx, markmc: looks like it is just us :)21:01
vishyoh and eglynn21:01
vishyhi y'all21:02
annegentleyo yo21:02
markmcthat's more like it :)21:02
vishy#topic folsom-rc-potential buglist21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "folsom-rc-potential buglist"21:02
ttxanything in there that must absolutely be in folsom ?21:02
vishyso a few of these are kinda nasty21:03
vishythe 4 high ones especially21:03
vishyIMO, they are important enough to justify rc-221:03
ttxvishy: I think it's safe to do a RC2 at this point... just need to start being more picky about safe fixes / high impact21:03
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ttxalso, I would like to see some coordination around bug 1050359 and bug 1053364: either fix them everywhere or nowhere in Folsom21:04
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1050359 in cinder "Tests fail on 32bit machines (_get_hash_str is platform dependent)" [Medium,In progress]
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1053364 in quantum "Add SIGPIPE handler to subprocess execution in rootwrap and utils.execute" [Medium,Fix committed]
vishygoing to untarget the first one21:04
vishynot worth it21:04
vishygoing to untarget bug 1052252 as well21:04
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1052252 in nova "Migration 90 removes foreign keys but does not re-add them" [Medium,In progress]
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ttxvishy: this last one sounds nasty by its description, but you downgraded its importance ?21:05
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ttxI suppose it's not as deadly as it sounds21:05
vishyno it is just one foreign key21:05
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vishyand things run fine without it21:05
vishyno reason to add a new db migration for it right now21:05
mikalAnd John is working on it now IIRC21:06
ttxyes, I'd like to avoid new db migrations now if we can :)21:06
ttxwhat about the SIGPIPE stuff ?21:06
vishyi think the sigpipe stuff is a nice to have21:06
vishysince we don't know any specific issues it is causing yet21:06
markmcthe LibvirtHybridOVSBridgeDriver  and the auto-assigned floating IPs ones don't look crazy risky21:07
vishyif we do rc2 it should go in21:07
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markmcthe SIGPIPE thing would make me fairly nervous this late21:08
markmcespecially if we don't know of a specific serious issue it causes?21:09
vishymarkmc: I'm ok pushing sigpipe into grizzly + stable backport later21:09
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ttxmarkmc: sounds like something we can backport later21:09
vishythat is probably the safe way to do it21:09
vishyi will untarget21:09
ttxlets remove folsom-rc-potential there as well21:09
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vishyanyone know any other bugs that have been missed?21:10
vishyI just picked up the only one that didn't have a patch in21:10
jog0bug  105304121:10
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1053041 in cinder "SolarisISCSIDriver does not work" [Medium,In progress]
ttxvishy: want me to open a folsom-rc2 window ? I think some of your Highs should be there21:11
vishythat is the next topic21:11
ttxok, lets see if we can remove more from the rc-potential list21:11
vishyjog0: that fix looks harmless, is it going into cinder?21:12
vishyttx: refresh i just pulled 321:12
jog0vishy: not sure, you will have to sync with John on that21:12
markmcO'm not sure I understand bug 105344121:13
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1053441 in nova "Instances in vm state DELETED are preventing compute restart" [High,Fix committed]
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markmcis it as serious as it sounds?21:13
vishyjog0: ok I added to the list for now21:13
ttxmarkmc: does bug 1053427 only affect nova, not cinder ?21:13
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1053427 in nova "solidfire volume driver's sf_allow_tenant_qos option is a boolean" [Medium,Fix committed]
markmcttx, yes, fixed in cinder already21:14
ttxoh, ok21:14
markmcttx, it's not worth rc2 for or anything21:14
markmcttx, just noticed when regenerating the sample config file21:14
markmcwhich itself would be nice to have in folsom final, but  ...21:14
vishymarkmc: it looks like a case where the db and the host got out of sync21:15
vishymarkmc: because the compute host crashed during delete21:15
markmcvishy, any reason to think it's a regression vs essex?21:15
ttxheh, we should really be discussing folsom-rc2 first. We have fixes that are not worth respinning, but are safe enough to be included if we did respin21:15
vishymarkmc: it makes sense to skip attempting to sync states for instances if they are in deleting state21:16
markmcgiven that it's a HP bug, it's probably an issue in essex too21:16
vishymarkmc: true do you think that means we should push it to grizzly21:16
vishyttx: I wanted to look at the bugs first, since we need to be familiar with the bugs to decide if we need a folsom-rc221:17
markmcvishy, right, issues that existed in essex aren't worth breaking folsom for at this late stage21:17
vishymarkmc: fair enough21:17
vishylets decide then21:17
ttxyes, and we'll need to go back to it to target the ones that are appropriate :)21:17
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markmcwell, we certainly don't have any release blockers IMHO21:17
vishy#topic go/no-go on RC221:17
*** openstack changes topic to "go/no-go on RC2"21:17
ttxwell, I would be very surprised if that RC1 survived long... so better start a RC2 window early21:18
vishymarkmc: what about broken live migration with volumes21:18
vishymarkmc: that one seems pretty important to me21:18
markmcthis is check_for_export_parameter() thing?21:19
markmcsorry, I must have misunderstood - thought you said "not worth it" earlier21:19
* markmc looks again21:19
vishythat is the only one that i would be upset shipping without21:20
ttxmarkmc: in my mind, I'd like to go into "no more RCs unless a kitten gets killed" early next week. We still have one/two days to push extra fixes21:20
markmcwell, if there's even one "we really should fix this" and we have time, then we should go for it21:21
vishyand i would prefer to get the other high's in21:21
* markmc would like to see an uptodate nova.conf.sample shipped :)21:21
ttxso if it's mostly things that already have fixes, I'm fine21:21
vishymarkmc yeah :)21:21
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ttxok, let's do it, but be conservative in what we put in ?21:22
vishygood by me21:22
vishymarkmc: I will untarget the deleted volumes fix21:22
sdagueyeh, it seems there should be time to do some in tree doc things. It wouldn't hurt to take a run at the man pages starts that were added as well.21:22
vishymarkmc: any way to mark it for backport yet?21:22
ttxi.e. things htat already have fixes...21:22
vishydoc fixes should be fair game until we actually ship rc2 imo21:22
markmcvishy, I guess we don't have a folsom series to target it at, just tag with folsom-backport-potential21:23
* markmc adds that to official tags21:23
ttxvishy: adding to rc2 bugs that are already fixed in master, there is little risk of overflowing21:24
jog0sdague: the version in the man pages should be bumped up21:24
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ttxvishy: if you ack I'll create the milestone so we can start playing targeting21:25
vishyok next topic21:26
vishy#action ttx to open RC-221:26
vishy#topic sample testing path21:26
*** openstack changes topic to "sample testing path"21:26
ttxgo wild21:26
vishyso we got a lot of the sample tests in but there are a bunch more to go21:26
vishyI want to discuss where they should go.21:27
vishyThe issue is that we may be adding new extensions during the grizzly release and potentially be improving/adding to existing extensions21:27
vishybut i think should be for the current release21:28
vishyas opposed to trunk21:28
russellbso could just pull from stable/folsom then?21:28
vishyso in that sense it makes sense to generate them from stable/folsom21:28
russellband just backport additions that are applicable21:28
vishybut then we have to backport stuff into stable/folsom21:28
sdagueis there a way to version so you could see stable as well as head?21:28
vishythe question is is that ok? they are just tests and docs21:28
russellbsdague: yeah, that'd be even better21:29
annegentlesdague: hm. thinking.21:29
markmcquestion is whether backporting api tests to folsom is ok?21:29
vishysdague: I think we could do that. The question is more about whether it is ok to backport api_sample_tests to folsom21:29
vishymarkmc: right21:29, and a redirect from the default21:29
russellbjust tests, seems fine to me21:29
annegentlehonestly originally always tracked try stack, unfortunately that's not panning out :)21:29
russellbthat shouldn't risk breaking the code :-)21:29
markmcwe're doing it for a good reason, I don't see why not21:29
vishymarkmc: ok I just wasn't sure it fit perfectly with the definition of stable-maint21:30
markmcvishy, it doesn't exactly :)21:30
markmcvishy, but updating the docs is a good reason21:30
sdaguethere shouldn't be any impact, they are also helpful in nailing down behavior, to figure out if things actually changed in the way they worked from folsom to grizzly21:30
vishyin that case I will merge any of those are completed by rc2 in as well21:30
vishyand port all of them over to api.openstack.org21:30
vishybtw if anyone wants to help with the porting I would love it :)21:31
markmcsounds good21:31
annegentleThis patches with the tested samples:
sdaguevishy: I thought annegentle push a big chunk the other day21:31
vishybasically copying files over and updating the wadl's with any broken params21:31
annegentlehowever in the actual bringing them over I'm finding there are far more samples than actually presents to users21:31
vishyannegentle: you are a superstar!21:31
annegentlewhy thank you. But but but… not sure what to do with all the awesome samples.21:32
vishyannegentle: yes we need to add more sections to the wadls21:32
vishyannegentle: I don't think there are any for xml stuff in the extensions for example21:32
annegentleI do get a drop down list, I wonder if something like the "create server" section could just have a bunch in the drop down?21:32
annegentleyeah that patch only does core also, doesn't touch extensions yet21:32
sdaguevishy: so one thing I was always confused about on, there really isn't any documentation on error returns for api calls. And samples doesn't really address that. How do we get that added in in the future21:33
vishysdague: I'm not sure about that, I think there is data in some of the wadl's about that21:33
vishyjust getting the happy path stuff in first will be a huge + but there is a lot of room to continue to improve21:34
vishysdague: we really need someone to drive this from a tech side21:34
annegentlesdague: yeah I've been tracking that omission in this bug
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 975232 in openstack-manuals "Need response codes displayed on" [Medium,Triaged]21:34
annegentlebut no one has picked it up21:34
ttxvishy, off-topic, but for bug 1053041 you should coordinate with jgriffith: either in both or in none ?21:34
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1053041 in cinder "SolarisISCSIDriver does not work" [Medium,In progress]
vishysdague: so if you want to come up with a plan and recruit help at the summit21:34
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annegentlesdague: also would like navigation for these LONG lists tracked with21:35
sdaguevishy: yeh, that might be an option21:35
annegentle and21:35
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1039163 in openstack-manuals " needs permalinks to individual items" [Wishlist,Confirmed]21:35
vishyttx: yes I put rc-potential so I wouldn't lose it21:35
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 980228 in openstack-manuals "Need anchor tags for headings built on so pointers can be more exact" [Low,Confirmed]21:35
vishywas going to ping him after21:35
sdagueI won't sign up quite yet, but don't let me forget about it :)21:35
annegentleif you know people who'd like to work on it I can certainly connect21:35
jgriffithttx: I was planning it for RC221:35
ttxjgriffith: ok, then should also be in nova rc221:35
vishythe anchor tags thing looks pretty simple21:35
vishyand it would definitely help21:36
annegentlevishy: for sure21:36
vishywe are getting a little off topic though21:36
vishylets move on21:36
vishy#action api samples to be backported to stable to improve documentation21:36
vishy#topic release notes21:36
*** openstack changes topic to "release notes"21:36
vishythanks i was looking for that21:38
vishyso I would love some help writing this21:38
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vishyI think we should put it in an etherpad so we can all work on it21:38
jgriffith+1 on etherpad21:39
vishyI will add all relevent data I have today and tomorrow21:40
vishybut anyone who has input please help so we can make them as complete as possible21:40
vishy#topic open discussion21:40
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion"21:40
vishyanyone have anything else?21:40
ttxvishy: targeted bug 1053041 to rc221:40
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1053041 in nova "SolarisISCSIDriver does not work" [Medium,In progress]
sdaguevishy: I'll pop over tomorrow and take a look21:40
ttxvishy: since jgriffith added to to his21:41
vishyttx: great thanks21:41
ttxvishy: wil let you pick the other ones21:41
ttxand will help with the backporting tomorrow21:41
* ttx goes to sleep21:41
vishyttx: thanks21:42
vishyok sounds like we are done21:42
vishythanks everyone!21:42
vishy#endmeeting nova21:42
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meeting Channel ||"21:42
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 20 21:42:42 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:42
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