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| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Hi Peter | 14:54 |
|---|---|---|
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| primeministerp | Hitesh_: hi hitesh | 14:57 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Let's wait for 5 min to join Alesandro and Pedro | 14:57 |
| primeministerp | Hitesh_: alessandro isn't joining | 14:57 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Ok | 14:57 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: how was the summit session? | 14:58 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: I hope you guys enjoyed :) | 14:58 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 23 15:00:16 2012 UTC. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 15:00 |
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| primeministerp | Hi all | 15:00 |
| primeministerp | it's going to be a relatively quick meeting today | 15:00 |
| primeministerp | I'm very busy and alessandro is travelling | 15:00 |
| primeministerp | so | 15:00 |
| primeministerp | let's get started | 15:00 |
| primeministerp | #topic SD Summmit | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "SD Summmit" | 15:01 | |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Ok | 15:01 |
| primeministerp | so we had a great summit | 15:01 |
| primeministerp | lots of great interest in Hyper-v | 15:01 |
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| primeministerp | we had aproximately 40+ people attend the discusssion/demo that alessandro and I gave | 15:01 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Awesome | 15:02 |
| primeministerp | we had great interest in hyper-v from all the big guys | 15:02 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Sounds great !! | 15:02 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: would you agree? | 15:02 |
| pnavarro | completely agree | 15:02 |
| Hitesh_ | pnavarro: :) | 15:03 |
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| EmilienM | o/ | 15:03 |
| primeministerp | even shuttleworth was impressed | 15:03 |
| EmilienM | sorry for late | 15:03 |
| EmilienM | I'm in classroom :) | 15:03 |
| primeministerp | EmilienM: no worries | 15:03 |
| pnavarro | Alessandro didn't even have time to have a lunch | 15:03 |
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| primeministerp | so | 15:03 |
| primeministerp | it was also great to meet everyone in person | 15:04 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Great !! | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | I can't stay anymore, sorry | 15:04 |
| primeministerp | we were also able to make all the introductions to help for the grizzly push | 15:04 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: I hope you guys had a great time with each other | 15:04 |
| pnavarro | don't worry EmilienM, I'll cath up later | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | ok | 15:04 |
| primeministerp | Hitesh_: very busy | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | I'll help with OVS & doc :) | 15:04 |
| primeministerp | EmilienM: perfect | 15:04 |
| primeministerp | EmilienM: i'll be in touch | 15:04 |
| EmilienM | cool | 15:05 |
| EmilienM | ++ | 15:05 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Pedro and I wll be more for Quantum | 15:05 |
| primeministerp | in terms of the design session | 15:05 |
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| primeministerp | it was basically the usual guys however vishy did make it for part of it | 15:05 |
| primeministerp | we have some basic direction on key bits to work on | 15:05 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: did you get a chance to talk with Dan for Quantum? | 15:06 |
| primeministerp | specifically around the rdp console integration as well as quantum | 15:06 |
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| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Ok. | 15:06 |
| primeministerp | Hitesh_: yes he did | 15:06 |
| primeministerp | Hitesh_: as well as many others | 15:06 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: awesome | 15:07 |
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| primeministerp | so that being said, development is probably going to start next week | 15:07 |
| primeministerp | in the mean time | 15:07 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Pedro and I will start more dig into Quantum :) | 15:07 |
| primeministerp | I'd like people to continue testing the existing bits, | 15:07 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: sure, we will do | 15:07 |
| primeministerp | we still need to test pedro's latest bits | 15:07 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: did it make it through? | 15:08 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: the cinder bits? | 15:08 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Cinder one's? | 15:08 |
| pnavarro | primeministerp: not yet, I check everyday and we need one more core approval | 15:08 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: so we're waiting on a plus +2 | 15:09 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: can you email the cinder ptl | 15:09 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: or did he review already | 15:09 |
| pnavarro | primeministerp: yeah | 15:09 |
| primeministerp | ok | 15:09 |
| primeministerp | so we need another cinder core + | 15:09 |
| primeministerp | 1 | 15:09 |
| pnavarro | primeministerp: Yes, he already reviewed | 15:09 |
| pnavarro | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14541/ | 15:09 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: do you have the url to the review? | 15:09 |
| primeministerp | perfect | 15:09 |
| primeministerp | vishy: ping | 15:10 |
| primeministerp | vishy: any chance for a cinder review for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14541/ | 15:10 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: can you ask on openstack-dev as well? | 15:10 |
| primeministerp | we'll push to get this in this week | 15:10 |
| pnavarro | ok | 15:11 |
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| primeministerp | pnavarro: cc me on any emails | 15:13 |
| primeministerp | ples | 15:13 |
| primeministerp | er please | 15:13 |
| primeministerp | ok | 15:13 |
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| pnavarro | primeministerp: any direction about what quantum plugins will be developed for Grizzly? | 15:13 |
| primeministerp | does anyone have anything else to add? | 15:13 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: alessandro is preparing a write up and we're going discuss it | 15:14 |
| pnavarro | great ! primeministerp | 15:14 |
| primeministerp | that will not happen until next week though when he's back | 15:14 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Ok. | 15:14 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: great !! | 15:14 |
| primeministerp | I believe he actually comes back on thursday | 15:14 |
| primeministerp | ok | 15:15 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: please include me that mail thread as well, for quantum bits :) | 15:15 |
| primeministerp | anything from the CERN folks? | 15:15 |
| luis_fdez | nothing new... jose was wearing fashion new t-shirts... | 15:15 |
| primeministerp | hahaha | 15:15 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: sorry I didn't have one for you | 15:16 |
| luis_fdez | hehe, no problem! | 15:16 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: my employer didn't pay for them, i did | 15:16 |
| luis_fdez | I was talking with jose and on Thursday we will all together get update about the summit | 15:16 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: I'll have one made for you when you go production w/ hyper-v | 15:16 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: did Jitendra meet you at the summit? | 15:17 |
| luis_fdez | that sounds fair ;) | 15:17 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: lots of good discussion with Tim and Jose | 15:17 |
| primeministerp | Hitesh_: he attended our discussion | 15:17 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Great !!! | 15:17 |
| primeministerp | Hitesh_: i met him briefly | 15:17 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: Cool,. | 15:18 |
| pnavarro | primeministerp: I'd need your slides for Paris meetup | 15:18 |
| luis_fdez | ok primeministerp, I think they got all the main information we need... also the resize that came to my mind during the meeting | 15:18 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: same for me :) | 15:18 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: that will prob be added for grizzly | 15:18 |
| Hitesh_ | primeministerp: please share your slides with me too | 15:18 |
| pnavarro | that'd be cool to upload the slides in: http://www.slideshare.net/openstack | 15:18 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: i think alessandro has some of the bits | 15:19 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: they should already be linked from the summit | 15:19 |
| luis_fdez | perfect... | 15:19 |
| primeministerp | pnavarro: however I'll look | 15:19 |
| primeministerp | I'll make sure the slides get on slideshare | 15:20 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 15:20 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 23 15:20:26 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:20 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2012/hyper_v.2012-10-23-15.00.html | 15:20 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2012/hyper_v.2012-10-23-15.00.txt | 15:20 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2012/hyper_v.2012-10-23-15.00.log.html | 15:20 |
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| ayoung | Keystone! | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | excellent! | 18:00 |
| boden | hi guys... Boden Russell from IBM here | 18:01 |
| ayoung | http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:01 |
| gyee | \o | 18:02 |
| gyee | ayoung, scoped token is on the agenda I imagine? :) | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | gyee, nah. It is out of scope | 18:04 |
| henrynash | gyee, I assume you mean to continue the discussion on coping a token to multiple projects or domains? | 18:04 |
| ayoung | gyee, we should probably review the major decisions from last week | 18:04 |
| * heckj waves | 18:04 | |
| heckj | #startmeeting keystone | 18:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 23 18:04:47 2012 UTC. The chair is heckj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:04 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:04 |
| heckj | hey boden! welcome all! | 18:04 |
| ayoung | heckj, I did a little bit of damage^H^H^H modified the agenda a bit | 18:05 |
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| ayoung | http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:06 |
| heckj | Warning - I've got a viscious headcold, so operating at significantly less capacity than normal | 18:06 |
| heckj | ayoung: word | 18:06 |
| ayoung | viscous even | 18:07 |
| heckj | yeah, yucky | 18:07 |
| heckj | you were busy | 18:07 |
| heckj | #topic high priority bugs | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "high priority bugs" | 18:08 | |
| heckj | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14281/3 vs https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14208/ | 18:08 |
| ayoung | So, to make sure everyone is aware, unit tests on checkins were failing due to an expired cert for the SSL tests | 18:08 |
| ayoung | I was going through and rechecking all of the the ones that I knew of that failed due to that | 18:08 |
| ayoung | heckj, yea, I thought those were the same ticket dual submitted | 18:09 |
| ayoung | looks like you distinguished between them | 18:09 |
| heckj | there was a pile of those backing on the SSL certs | 18:09 |
| ayoung | "please reset after https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14208/ has been approved and applied" | 18:09 |
| ayoung | comment on 14281 | 18:09 |
| ayoung | but on 14208 | 18:09 |
| ayoung | This seems the same as https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14281/3 | 18:10 |
| ayoung | dolphm, ^^any comments? | 18:11 |
| heckj | they functionally solve the same issue - I was leaning towards Dolph's patch, but mostly because I saw it first | 18:11 |
| ayoung | I think it is a duplicate patch submission | 18:11 |
| ayoung | just one has a unit test. Pick one to go in. | 18:12 |
| gyee | maybe its too late for this, but I am not sure about this "if not ..." checks | 18:12 |
| gyee | why don't we do the schema check in one place? | 18:12 |
| heckj | dolph had a comment on 14281 wanting a change to the message, and 14281 had useful additional tests, so I'd like both in place | 18:12 |
| ayoung | gyee, what do you mean? | 18:13 |
| gyee | I understand dolph have the json schema | 18:13 |
| gyee | we can check the json request against the schema for any missing parts | 18:13 |
| gyee | rather than having these "if not ..." all over the place | 18:14 |
| heckj | gyee: good point - but significantly deeper than this patch. If it covers all the back-use cases as well, I think that would be a great patch | 18:15 |
| gyee | much cleaner to have schema check in one place | 18:15 |
| heckj | gyee: agreed, without a doubt | 18:15 |
| ayoung | gyee, +1 Care to open a ticket for that? | 18:15 |
| gyee | sure | 18:16 |
| heckj | actually, a blueprint would be more appropriate - please open a BP for it | 18:16 |
| heckj | (rather than a bug) | 18:16 |
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| heckj | Thierry keeps yelling at me... | 18:16 |
| gyee | ok :) | 18:16 |
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| heckj | ayoung: any qualms with approving https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14208/ and then requesting Alvaro to rebase on latest and get in the tests on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14281 | 18:17 |
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| ayoung | heckj, none | 18:17 |
| ayoung | will do | 18:17 |
| heckj | Okay - next topic: moving auth_token into keystoneclient | 18:18 |
| heckj | https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1039567 | 18:18 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1039567 in keystone "auth_token middleware should be stand alone" [High,Triaged] | 18:18 |
| gyee | +0 | 18:18 |
| heckj | we've got it prioritized high, and the impact will be changes to everyone's "paste" file as a part of the upgrade process to this | 18:18 |
| heckj | It will resolve the issue of wanting auth_token middleware packaged separately, albiet at the cost of changing the namespace (which looked to be happening anyway) | 18:19 |
| heckj | ayoung: anything else on that? | 18:19 |
| ayoung | heckj, agreed. Think we need to get moving on this. Who is going to take it. | 18:19 |
| ayoung | ? | 18:19 |
| heckj | ayoung: you're most familiar with the signing code. gyee? henrynash? any interest in jumping into assist with some of this - very well constrained. | 18:20 |
| henrynash | I'd be happy to take it | 18:20 |
| henrynash | good thing to start with | 18:21 |
| ayoung | henrynash, thanks | 18:21 |
| ayoung | It is moving into Keystone Client | 18:21 |
| ayoung | and then the paste files for each of the projects need to be modified | 18:21 |
| ayoung | lots of juggling | 18:21 |
| henrynash | ok, I'll study and one back if I have questions :-) | 18:21 |
| ayoung | heckj, how do we reassign bugs? | 18:22 |
| heckj | henrynash - what's your launchpad ID? I'll assign it over. Also, will hook you up with dtroyer, who can help review any changes to devstack to verify the switchover as we do that dance. | 18:22 |
| henrynash | henry-nash (I think) | 18:22 |
| gyee | ayoung, paste file, you mean like nova api-paste.conf? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | gyee, yes | 18:22 |
| gyee | what about devstack etc | 18:22 |
| heckj | gyee: that will need updating as well | 18:22 |
| gyee | I wonder if we can setup a pointer/reference in Keystone | 18:23 |
| heckj | the general two-step for this process is to replicate all the relevant code into keystoneclient, then update devstack to use keystoneclient, then submit patches to all the remaining projects to update their same paste.ini files | 18:23 |
| ayoung | this will need to be done in stages, keeping the exisiting setups working so devstack passes, and eventually removing the file keystone/middleware/auth_token.py as a last step | 18:23 |
| heckj | At the tail end, pull out the code from keystone when nothing is referencing it | 18:24 |
| heckj | yep | 18:24 |
| henrynash | ok, yep | 18:24 |
| ayoung | Probably should create a ticket for each of the other projects | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | Lets get the keystoneclient piece working first | 18:24 |
| ayoung | once that change has been made, I will queue up the work on PKI that allows other services to sign tokens | 18:25 |
| ayoung | to keep too many hands from changing the same code | 18:25 |
| ayoung | actually, until the keystoneclient changes, lets have a moritorium on all changes to auth_token | 18:25 |
| heckj | henrynash: don't hesitate to holler if things get tricky or you get stuc in process somewhere | 18:25 |
| henrynash | will do, not known for being shy... | 18:26 |
| heckj | ayoung: good idea on lockdown on auth_token, concider that enabled - core will keep an eye and pause any changes heading in there | 18:26 |
| heckj | #topic https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14167/ Should go before PKI Default gets rechecked | 18:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14167/ Should go before PKI Default gets rechecked" | 18:26 | |
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| heckj | ayoung: I think this just needs reviews, but thank you for the head's up on prior to PKI changover | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | heckj, are you OK with approving https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14167/ ? | 18:27 |
| heckj | ayoung - yeah, based on prior - will do now | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | I can do a follow on for any documentation | 18:28 |
| heckj | approved and rolling in now | 18:28 |
| heckj | also available for backport to folsom stable | 18:28 |
| gyee | why do we need issue time if id is unique? | 18:29 |
| ayoung | gyee, ID is not unique | 18:29 |
| gyee | no? | 18:29 |
| ayoung | in PKI tokens, SQL ID is the hash of the signed CMS message | 18:29 |
| gyee | ah | 18:30 |
| ayoung | So issue-revoke-reissue could have an identical body. | 18:30 |
| gyee | so salted hash :) | 18:30 |
| heckj | request for reviews: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14328/ <-- please review | 18:30 |
| ayoung | with issue time, it makes sure the body is different for each one. Since time out is 1 minute. | 18:30 |
| ayoung | heckj, should really be dolphm on 14328 since he objected. I think his points were covered, but would prefer him to say himself. | 18:32 |
| ayoung | Maybe if I keep referring to dolphm the screen beeps will attract his attention | 18:32 |
| boden | as noted in the agenda -- I have a REMOTE_USER change which is waiting for 14328 so would be nice to see that one resolved | 18:32 |
| heckj | dolphm: please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14328/ | 18:32 |
| ayoung | boden, you can do the following | 18:33 |
| ayoung | git fetch https://ayoung@review.openstack.org/openstack/keystone refs/changes/28/14328/2 && git checkout FETCH_HEAD | 18:33 |
| ayoung | then, in your branch, cherry pick that commit | 18:33 |
| ayoung | and rebase -i so it is in front of your change. Then, when you submit your patch, it should show "depends on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14328/" | 18:34 |
| boden | ayoung - fair enough.. git n00b here so was hoping to not get into extensive workflows for this one, even though I need to learn them I have limited bandwidth right now | 18:35 |
| heckj | boden: yeah, the other option is to just wait, but that puts the wait and check burden on you | 18:36 |
| heckj | #topic Overview of Sessions/Decisions from Summit | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Overview of Sessions/Decisions from Summit" | 18:36 | |
| ayoung | heckj, not really an option, as he needs to work up some unit tests, and that can be done up front. Waiting will delay. | 18:37 |
| ayoung | heckj, ah decisions! | 18:37 |
| heckj | heh | 18:37 |
| boden | ayoung -- unti tests are done | 18:37 |
| ayoung | boden, rock on! | 18:37 |
| ayoung | so one decision that I think people will find interesting is from multi factor | 18:37 |
| heckj | ayoung has been anxiously awaiting those tests | 18:37 |
| ayoung | we will start encoding what form of authN was used to generate the token | 18:38 |
| ayoung | so to do multi factor, submit for one token, then use that token to get another, and the authN set grows | 18:38 |
| ayoung | I think it is an elegant solution, and then it puts the onus on the policy writers to consume that | 18:39 |
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| heckj | ayoung: resolved to leaving it to end services to validate multi-factor based on the authN annotations? | 18:39 |
| heckj | Or is there an expected auth_token middleware update to count for 2+ assertions, etc. | 18:39 |
| ayoung | heckj, possibly, but could even be on the authenticate method in Keystone | 18:39 |
| heckj | (or variation on that theme) | 18:40 |
| ayoung | heckj, I think first step is getting the mechanism in | 18:40 |
| ayoung | second is figureing out how people want it enforced. | 18:40 |
| heckj | mechanism = adding assertions onto token with AuthN usage | 18:40 |
| ayoung | I could see an argument that you don't want to hand out tenant-scoped tokens until all the multi-factor rules are met | 18:40 |
| heckj | sounds good - I'm with that | 18:40 |
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| heckj | seems like my dream of killing unscoped tokens is dying away :-) | 18:41 |
| gyee | s/dream/nightmare/ | 18:41 |
| ayoung | heckj, no, they are just getting renamed to "starting tokens" | 18:41 |
| heckj | david's point of assertions on the tokens is a good one though | 18:41 |
| ayoung | heckj, we need them to make sure we reimplement *all* of Kerberos in Keystone | 18:42 |
| gyee | ayoung, is mechanism going to baked into the token string? | 18:42 |
| ayoung | gyee, I don't think so | 18:42 |
| gyee | in token access? | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | mechanism is probably going to be a swappable function, with the default being "get starting token with user Id an password, and use that to get tenant/endpoint scoped tokens.: | 18:43 |
| ayoung | " | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | gyee, authenticate has been in desperate need for a refactor for some time. Maybe as part of this effort, we'll break it apart into a series of rules that we can then mix and match. Separate functions, and some way of saying "rules apply in this order" | 18:44 |
| gyee | I was thinking PAM/JAAS style | 18:44 |
| gyee | abstracting authentication and token validation, like like driver/manager backend | 18:45 |
| ayoung | gyee, that would tie in with the Pluggable Auth Blueprint, too | 18:45 |
| heckj | gyee: what's PAM/JAAS? | 18:45 |
| ayoung | heckj, a typo. He meant Pajamas | 18:45 |
| gyee | ha | 18:45 |
| ayoung | heckj, PAM is Unit | 18:45 |
| ayoung | Unix | 18:45 |
| ayoung | JAAS is Java | 18:45 |
| gyee | PAM = Pluggable Authentication Module | 18:45 |
| gyee | I think | 18:45 |
| heckj | yep, ok | 18:45 |
| ayoung | Java Authentication and Authorization Services | 18:46 |
| ayoung | in both case, pluggable modules registered with the system | 18:46 |
| ayoung | in the case of PAM, in /etc/pam.d | 18:46 |
| gyee | right | 18:46 |
| ayoung | JAAS is in A JDK specific location. | 18:46 |
| * heckj updated the blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/multi-factor-authn with some of the above detail on plan of attack | 18:46 | |
| gyee | I was going to do it as part of generic access key authentication | 18:47 |
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| gyee | I can take another crack at it if you guys want | 18:48 |
| ayoung | gyee, yeah. Make sure you get boden's change in there | 18:48 |
| heckj | sounds good | 18:48 |
| ayoung | http://fpaste.org/UvUH/ is the heart of the Java security configuration from my system | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | from /usr/lib/jvm/java-1.7.0-openjdk.x86_64/jre/lib/security/java.security | 18:49 |
| ayoung | bascially says, try each of these classes in order. Then, something like Tomcat can modify when authenticating. | 18:49 |
| gyee | ayoung, sorry I miss the first part, which one is boden's change? | 18:49 |
| ayoung | gyee, REMOTE_USER | 18:50 |
| ayoung | that is going to be one of the auth mechanisms allowed. | 18:50 |
| gyee | which review? | 18:50 |
| boden | ayee -- its not submitted for review yet, but its ready to go including unit tests.. I'm waiting on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14328/ | 18:50 |
| gyee | ok thanks | 18:50 |
| ayoung | http://www.fpaste.org/fd2a/ | 18:51 |
| ayoung | that is from | 18:51 |
| ayoung | gyee, I'd say the PAM format is probably the clearer of the two | 18:52 |
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| gyee | yeah, that should give us authn | 18:52 |
| heckj | gyee: assigned you to the blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/pluggable-identity-authentication-handlers, which I think covers this work (boden, you wrote it up, so correct me if I'm wrong) | 18:52 |
| ayoung | gyee, I would really like it if the default configuration was in Python code, for debugging/clarity, with the overload being specified in something like paste | 18:52 |
| gyee | ayoung, everything will be in Python | 18:53 |
| gyee | I promise | 18:53 |
| ayoung | gyee, I would also allow for configuration in paste | 18:53 |
| ayoung | there are places where they can't change python code, but they can edit config files | 18:53 |
| ayoung | 5 minutes lefrt | 18:54 |
| ayoung | left | 18:54 |
| ayoung | OK other decisions from summit | 18:54 |
| gyee | resource collections | 18:55 |
| gyee | aka, groups | 18:55 |
| ayoung | we are going to indicate on a token which user signed it. Then, the X509 certs will be associated with a user | 18:55 |
| gyee | bout time | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | heh | 18:55 |
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| henrynash | so on groups….are we aiming at something more broad, or just UserGroups? | 18:55 |
| ayoung | this will provide enough info to someone that is trying to validate a token as far as who signed the token | 18:56 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: sorry, finish your topic first | 18:56 |
| gyee | henrynash, we can start with user groups, then expend it if needed | 18:56 |
| heckj | the user groups have a very clear and immediate use case, and make a good first-step starting point there | 18:57 |
| gyee | I agree | 18:57 |
| henrynash | agreed. I suggest i put together a bp for disussion | 18:57 |
| ayoung | once we have Id of "who signed" we can distribute the load of signing tokens | 18:57 |
| gyee | ayoung, +1 on signer identifier | 18:58 |
| ayoung | so in the cases where user auth's to Horizon | 18:58 |
| ayoung | the horizon user will sign the starting tokens | 18:58 |
| heckj | whcih means it'll be dependent on getting the signing code into keystoneclient to allow that client code to sign? | 18:58 |
| dolphm | (sorry i completely missed the meeting -- i'm catching up) | 18:58 |
| ayoung | heckj, yes | 18:58 |
| ayoung | heckj, that is my intent, I'll wait until I am just modifying client code before making any changes | 18:58 |
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| heckj | ayoung: sounds good - we'll want to marry that with a convience method in policy to react to that information to allow policy files to be crafter to support it | 18:59 |
| ayoung | heckj, yes, and may need to indicate it in the set of signing credentials, too | 19:00 |
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| heckj | henrynash: definitely +1 to putting together a blueprint for usergroups | 19:00 |
| gyee | henrynash, I can help as well | 19:01 |
| heckj | excellent! | 19:01 |
| ayoung | dolphm we were trying to untangle a few reviews due to cross communication etc. One for you is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14328/ | 19:01 |
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| heckj | Going to wrap this so CI can have the room | 19:01 |
| ayoung | Since you had the -1 comments before, we felt is fair to wait for you to say it was OK to submit | 19:01 |
| heckj | #endmeeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 23 19:02:04 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:02 |
| pabelanger | o/ | 19:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2012/keystone.2012-10-23-18.04.html | 19:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2012/keystone.2012-10-23-18.04.txt | 19:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2012/keystone.2012-10-23-18.04.log.html | 19:02 |
| dolphm | ayoung: thanks | 19:02 |
| clarkb | mordred: jeblair fungi | 19:02 |
| fungi | yep | 19:02 |
| fungi | it's that time again! | 19:02 |
| fungi | olaph appears to be present as well | 19:03 |
| heckj | gyee: henrynash thanks!!! | 19:03 |
| olaph | howdy | 19:03 |
| fungi | and pabelanger | 19:03 |
| fungi | sounds like a quorum | 19:03 |
| pabelanger | for a bit, on a mobile connection | 19:03 |
| russellb | on my mobile connection. | 19:04 |
| russellb | pabelanger: it's going to cost you | 19:04 |
| clarkb | hmm have we lost jeblair and mordred? | 19:04 |
| pabelanger | russellb, lies... kicked me off for burning up your bandwidth | 19:04 |
| jeblair | 1 sec | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | very sorry about that | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting ci | 19:08 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 23 19:08:45 2012 UTC. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:08 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:08 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ci' | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #topic actions from last meeting | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting" | 19:09 | |
| jeblair | fungi: we're still waiting on the foundation server for the CLA thing, yeah? | 19:10 |
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| fungi | yes, toddmorey e-mailed me last week to say that he has something mostly working but was too busy to meet up with the summit going on | 19:11 |
| fungi | so i'm waiting to hear back from him now that things are hopefully cooling down again | 19:11 |
| jeblair | #action toddmorey provide a test foundation server | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | #topic summit | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit" | 19:12 | |
| jeblair | So we were all pretty busy at the summit | 19:12 |
| clarkb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/state-of-ci | 19:12 |
| mordred | wait, we were all at the summit? | 19:13 |
| pabelanger | clarkb: Thanks for the link | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | Monty is going to translate those items into bugs | 19:13 |
| mordred | I am | 19:13 |
| mordred | I'm so happy about it | 19:13 |
| jeblair | #action mordred bugify summit actions | 19:13 |
| mordred | if people could go through other todo list items they got from the summit | 19:13 |
| mordred | and add them to that (or just make bugs from them) | 19:13 |
| mordred | I'd appreciate it | 19:13 |
| mordred | I'm also going through the current grizzly list and getting rid of or re-prioritizing cruft | 19:14 |
| jeblair | #action everyone collect action items from other summit session etherpads and register as bugs | 19:14 |
| pabelanger | look at that 1 commit behind all of redhat for CI commits | 19:14 |
| pabelanger | woot | 19:14 |
| pabelanger | russellb: ^ | 19:14 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: nice showing! | 19:15 |
| jeblair | any particular summit-related topics we should discuss here? | 19:15 |
| fungi | i've renewed work on the continuously updating tags for branches on gerrit | 19:16 |
| fungi | based on (brief) discussions at the summit | 19:16 |
| fungi | more or less people agreeing with what jeblair and i already talked through | 19:16 |
| clarkb | jeblair: the idea for a hosted log server might be worth bringing up | 19:17 |
| jeblair | fungi: +1, and i saw you updated the bug | 19:17 |
| fungi | clarkb: YES PLEASE | 19:17 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yeah, why don't you give an overview? | 19:17 |
| clarkb | everyone is testing openstack, but other than smokestack and us no one is reporting test results. Apparently companies make it hard to host their own results, but it was suggested that if we could provide a place to put logs people could just upload them there | 19:18 |
| pabelanger | I'd be interested in getting more information about salt and puppet from the summit. If somebody has a URL / presentation handy | 19:19 |
| clarkb | also, we really need to make logs.o.o more easily consumed. The potential is there to fix these two problems with one handy log server setup | 19:19 |
| clarkb | currently I am looking at logstash because it seems fairly configurable and there aer puppet modules to make it go (also their logo is awesome) | 19:20 |
| fungi | ahh, i remember the testlog server discussions now. i was confusing that with the proposal for a central logserver for our infrastructure | 19:20 |
| jeblair | fungi: perhaps those needs overlap a bit. | 19:20 |
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| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:21 |
| fungi | jeblair: potentially | 19:21 |
| clarkb | if anyone has had experience with logstash or similar I am definitely interested in chatting | 19:21 |
| fungi | last time i set up logservers it was rsyslogd and tenshi | 19:22 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: nothing's coming to mind. i'm sure lots of people were talking about those things, but i wasn't there. | 19:22 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: other than some nice conversations we had with Ryan_Lane, but i think you know most of that. | 19:22 |
| fungi | pabelanger: my only recollection of salt/puppet getting mentioned from a ci perspective was in the "state of ci" session | 19:22 |
| mordred | yeah - the only thing is what we've talked about in channel | 19:23 |
| mordred | that being, we'd like to start using salt to orchestrate our puppet runs | 19:23 |
| mordred | so that we can make zuul trigger salt to immediately make changes on merge, rather than waiting for a double cron | 19:23 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: cool. | 19:24 |
| pabelanger | fungi: /nods | 19:24 |
| jeblair | objections to moving on to server status/upgrades? | 19:25 |
| fungi | seconded | 19:25 |
| olaph | pabelanger: the only slides I can find are from a demonstration Dan Bode gave: http://www.slideshare.net/bodepd/openstack-grizzley-puppettalk | 19:25 |
| jeblair | #topic server upgrades | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "server upgrades" | 19:25 | |
| jeblair | So, we upgraded servers! | 19:25 |
| clarkb | we did! it was awesome and we got 99% of it all working | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | olaph: Ooo, checking it out. Thanks | 19:26 |
| clarkb | the gerrit and jenkins master servers (all four) are now on rackspace nova | 19:26 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: clarkb congrats | 19:26 |
| clarkb | and have been upgraded to precise | 19:26 |
| mordred | wq00t! | 19:26 |
| jeblair | as is etherpad.o.o, which was also migrated from a sekrit rackspace server to one publicly managed by the infra team | 19:27 |
| fungi | at this point there are no known regressions, right? just some new features we can't implement quite yet | 19:27 |
| clarkb | in theory this also gives us ipv6 connectivity but openssh server apparently tickles a bug in ovs so as a precaution we have not created AAAA records for the two production servers yet | 19:27 |
| clarkb | fungi: yup. I haven't heard any screaming. jgriffith did lose a pad but the link had the wrong url | 19:28 |
| fungi | saw that. didn't sound like a bug, just a typo | 19:28 |
| clarkb | yup | 19:28 |
| clarkb | and the new etherpad hasn't melted down yet which is good | 19:29 |
| fungi | aside from the usual jenkins bugginess, since reverted | 19:29 |
| jeblair | clarkb: and we have system-level monitoring of it with cacti! | 19:29 |
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| * fungi is very excited about cacti | 19:29 | |
| jeblair | #link http://cacti.openstack.org/cacti/graph_view.php | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | btw, for ram, i just pulled a number out of a hat when i made the etherpad host. it said 4g. | 19:30 |
| jeblair | it looks like that was generous. | 19:30 |
| fungi | is cacti running on a dedicated vm? | 19:30 |
| jeblair | fungi: yes | 19:31 |
| fungi | so if we also wanted to throw nagios or something on it down the road, that would probably be doable | 19:31 |
| jeblair | fungi: yep | 19:31 |
| fungi | spiffy | 19:31 |
| jeblair | #topic grenade / quantum | 19:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "grenade / quantum" | 19:32 | |
| pabelanger | fungi: shouldn't be too hard. I'd be able to help with that. Use it with our asterisk instances | 19:32 |
| fungi | pabelanger: cool. used it a ton myself over the years (long before it changed its name) | 19:32 |
| jeblair | two devstack variants have been requested: grenade upgrade testing, and quantum. | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | i'm very close to being able to run grenade (next step: move the grenade project into openstack-dev) | 19:33 |
| jeblair | and i have set up a silent job for quantum so that nachi can finish getting that working | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | on a related note, we should find out if people are okay with us not running n-vol tests for master, since n-vol and cinder are in folsom, i think n-vol may be deprecated now? | 19:34 |
| jeblair | jgriffith, vishy: ^ do you have an opinion on that? | 19:35 |
| mordred | anotherjesse said that we could go ahead and till that | 19:35 |
| mordred | kill | 19:35 |
| fungi | but continue running them for stable/folsom and stable/essex updates right? | 19:36 |
| jgriffith | jeblair: I'm ok with it (I think) | 19:36 |
| jeblair | fungi: i reckon so. | 19:36 |
| jgriffith | jeblair: we shouldn't be making changes to nova-vol any longer so... | 19:36 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair deconfigure n-vol testing on master | 19:37 |
| jeblair | #topic testr and friends | 19:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testr and friends" | 19:38 | |
| clarkb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14611/ | 19:38 |
| clarkb | I figured we needed to do a small proof of concept for testr and friends on a project that would be easy enough that this whole thing won't lose traction | 19:39 |
| mordred | testr and testtools and fixtures are super cool | 19:39 |
| clarkb | so with lifeless' help I hacked the above change for python-novaclient to use testr instead of nose | 19:39 |
| jeblair | clarkb: good plan | 19:39 |
| mordred | supersexy | 19:40 |
| lifeless | o/ | 19:40 |
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| mordred | lifeless: we like your libraries | 19:40 |
| fungi | lifeless is an awesome librarian | 19:40 |
| clarkb | I had to switch from unittest2 to testtools, update the base test class to capture stdout and save it in the subunit stream, correct setUp and tearDown methods (need to call parent class methods) | 19:40 |
| clarkb | and some boilerplate config stuff in tox.ini and testr.conf | 19:41 |
| clarkb | The current things we are missing are coverage, realtime output of test results, and human readable test logs | 19:41 |
| mordred | clarkb: the changes to do testtools and setUp/tearDown should be landable without testr yeah? | 19:41 |
| lifeless | clarkb: technically you get realtime output | 19:42 |
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| lifeless | clarkb: its just less IN YOUR FACE | 19:42 |
| clarkb | mordred: yes, I think I should pull those out into another change and rebase things | 19:42 |
| mordred | lifeless: s/realtime/IN YOUR FACE ANSI COLOR realtime output/ | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: what realtime output is there currently? | 19:42 |
| lifeless | jeblair: it outputs errors as they happen. | 19:42 |
| clarkb | and failures | 19:42 |
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| mordred | jeblair: it does what standard nose/unittest runs do without the openstack nose plugin | 19:43 |
| lifeless | all classes of things going wrong. | 19:43 |
| mordred | jeblair: ....F...E... etc | 19:43 |
| lifeless | mordred: nope | 19:43 |
| lifeless | mordred: it doesn't | 19:43 |
| mordred | ok | 19:43 |
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| mordred | I thought I saw .'s yesterday | 19:43 |
| lifeless | jeblair: it outputs anything outcome that will make the run be considered not-ok, as and when it happens. | 19:43 |
| lifeless | with all its attachments etc. | 19:43 |
| jeblair | so what other requirements are there driving the desire to implement something else? | 19:44 |
| jeblair | i'm not sure blindly re-implementing openstack-nose-plugin without targeting specific goals is the best idea. | 19:44 |
| mordred | prior experience I had trying to get us to plain nose before | 19:44 |
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| mordred | the people who have approval access have keeping that output as a requirement before they'd merge the change | 19:45 |
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| mordred | it's possible that we can convince them that the new features outweight the loss | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | mordred: yeah, but i seem to recall one specific objection was, eg, outputting either a "." or a test description rather than the test name. | 19:45 |
| jeblair | mordred: so since testr-default-output != plain-nose-default-output, we should re-evaluate. :) | 19:46 |
| mordred | indeed ... and I think super-quick test runs might please people ... but I also think that writing an ansi color filter for subunit output shouldn't be terrible | 19:46 |
| mordred | HOWEVER, you make a good point | 19:46 |
| mordred | so when we have the rest of everything working, we'll have a chat with people to determine whether or not the color thing is important to them | 19:47 |
| jeblair | i think identification of slow tests may have been a use-case too. | 19:47 |
| mordred | indeed | 19:47 |
| lifeless | testr slowest | 19:47 |
| clarkb | for the other two issues: we can potentially get away with nose for coverage and subunit logs as the log files in the short term | 19:47 |
| jeblair | (and that one in particular driving the color thing) | 19:47 |
| lifeless | just run that :) | 19:47 |
| jeblair | yeah, so lets see what the actual issues are, and perhaps there might be a more intelligent way to solve them other than expecting nova devs to stare at a screen identifying colors for 11 minutes while 3800 tests run. | 19:48 |
| mordred | yeah ... the more we have to teach them how to run something new ... | 19:48 |
| mordred | vishy: ping | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | mordred: we can tack on things like "testr slowest" in the tox config, right? | 19:49 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes, however tox short circuits on failure | 19:49 |
| mordred | vishy: if we could reduce test run time by 10x or more and still had sensible output for slow things and failures, but lost the current color output formatting, would that be a non-starter? | 19:49 |
| clarkb | jeblair: so we may need a lightweight wrapper like 'bash -c 'testr run --parallel ; testr slowest' | 19:50 |
| lifeless | clarkb: you probably want pipefail there | 19:50 |
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| lifeless | clarkb: or perhaps something a little more sophisticated - preserve $? from testr run --parallel | 19:50 |
| koolhead17 | danwent, around? | 19:50 |
| jeblair | clarkb: _if_ people care about slow test runs on failure (they might?) | 19:50 |
| clarkb | lifeless: good point | 19:50 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I think they should care on each run | 19:50 |
| mordred | there is also the possibility that if hte system is sane and all, we can just show people how to do stuff with testr directly ... | 19:51 |
| mordred | I just don't want to get bogged down in perception of regression | 19:51 |
| clarkb | the tl;dr is yes we can add it to tox. it will just be a little ugly | 19:51 |
| clarkb | however you don't see that ugly when running tox -efoo | 19:51 |
| danwent | koolhead17: what's up? | 19:52 |
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| koolhead17 | danwent, i changed the doc repo to released ubuntu cloud repo, it was testing at time guide was written. | 19:53 |
| jeblair | koolhead17: we're having a ci meeting in this channel | 19:53 |
| koolhead17 | jeblair, srry :( | 19:53 |
| jeblair | anyone else have something to say about testr? | 19:54 |
| mordred | nope | 19:54 |
| jeblair | #topic open discussion | 19:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion" | 19:54 | |
| jeblair | 5 mins left! | 19:54 |
| fungi | any bacon shortage updates? | 19:54 |
| mordred | I currently have no bacon | 19:55 |
| fungi | that sounds like a bug | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | i am fresh out. but i will be eating more iberian ham soon, which makes me happy. | 19:55 |
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| * clarkb is going to try and take the afternoon off if mordred doesn't scream about it | 19:55 | |
| fungi | i hope to have the commit-merged hook module for gerrit to update tags on review-dev checked in for review later this afternoon | 19:56 |
| jeblair | sweet. | 19:56 |
| fungi | then you can all kick it around | 19:56 |
| jeblair | i'm playing around with graphite for collecting and displaying stats for devstack jobs (and maybe later, all jenkins jobs). | 19:56 |
| fungi | i'm changing commit-merged into a .erb though so we can pass vars into it. hopefully that doesn't meet with concern | 19:57 |
| jeblair | fungi: that should be fine in principle. | 19:57 |
| fungi | since it will technically affect both review and review-dev from that perspective | 19:57 |
| jeblair | oh, and jenkins-job-builder is getting more contributors! | 19:58 |
| fungi | saw that. very exciting | 19:58 |
| fungi | loops! | 19:58 |
| jeblair | fungi: and loops and loops and loops... | 19:58 |
| fungi | heh | 19:59 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 23 19:59:16 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2012/ci.2012-10-23-19.08.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2012/ci.2012-10-23-19.08.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2012/ci.2012-10-23-19.08.log.html | 19:59 |
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| ttx | TC members: who's around ? | 20:00 |
| annegentle-nz | o/ | 20:00 |
| notmyname | here | 20:00 |
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| * russellb waves | 20:00 | |
| jgriffith | o/ | 20:00 |
| gabrielhurley | 'ello | 20:00 |
| ttx | (we need a minimum of 7 members to hold the meeting) | 20:00 |
| danwent | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | and... 7 | 20:00 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | heckj, vishy, markmc, jaypipes, bcwaldon ? | 20:01 |
| heckj | heckj o/ (sorta) | 20:01 |
| russellb | markmc is out all week, not sure if he was planning to join ... | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 23 20:01:42 2012 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
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| ttx | The agenda for the meeting is at: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| ttx | We have a bit of ground to cover today so let's start | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Motion: Nomination of Ryan Lane to the User committee | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Motion: Nomination of Ryan Lane to the User committee" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | So this is just a formal confirmation that we nominated Ryan Lane to set up the user committee together with Tim Bell (nominated by the BoD) | 20:02 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:02 |
| * heckj seconds | 20:02 | |
| ttx | I went to all of you last week to get your agreement, so this should just be a matter of making it part of our first meeting minutes... | 20:02 |
| ttx | Anyone with a last-minute objection ? | 20:02 |
| jaypipes | nope | 20:02 |
| russellb | sounds good to me. | 20:03 |
| jgriffith | none here | 20:03 |
| gabrielhurley | no objections | 20:03 |
| annegentle-nz | sounds great | 20:03 |
| ttx | #agreed Ryan Lane nominated to the original self-bootstrapping user committee | 20:03 |
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| ttx | Ryan_Lane: you just missed your coronation | 20:03 |
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| ttx | #topic Motion: Ceilometer application for incubation | 20:03 |
| Ryan_Lane | :D | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Motion: Ceilometer application for incubation" | 20:03 | |
| * nijaba waves | 20:03 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2012-October/000016.html | 20:03 |
| * dhellmann o/ | 20:03 | |
| ttx | A few preliminary remarks on Incubation before we start the discussion... | 20:03 |
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| ttx | There is an upcoming discussion to have on the Incubation / Core promotion process, together with the Board of Directors | 20:04 |
| ttx | They should file a request to see the topic discussed soon | 20:04 |
| ttx | In particular, we'd like to avoid that projects follow the full incubation track only to be vetoed by the BoD at the very end of the process | 20:04 |
| ttx | That said I see no reason to delay the decision on Ceilometer incubation | 20:04 |
| russellb | they can veto it? | 20:04 |
| ttx | Incubation is about pushing common resources to a project that we think is promising | 20:04 |
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| ttx | russellb: they can veto a project that we recommend for core yes. They can't veto Incubation per se | 20:05 |
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| russellb | ok. | 20:05 |
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| notmyname | ttx: it's more than a nursery, though | 20:05 |
| ttx | So Incubation is about asking CI, QA and release management to work together with the incubated project | 20:05 |
| ttx | so that it can be ready to become a core project for the next cycle | 20:05 |
| * bcwaldon and vishy join the party | 20:05 | |
| vishy | o/ | 20:05 |
| ttx | So it's necessary to become a core project, but it's not sufficient | 20:05 |
| * nijaba notes that they have been very helpful already | 20:05 | |
| mordred | we missed bcwaldon and vishy | 20:05 |
| ttx | We'll have to clarify this with the BoD, but if the project is deemed out of the scope of OpenStack then it might just drop off Incubation status | 20:06 |
| ttx | ...and if that happens I'd rather have it happen early rather than late | 20:06 |
| mordred | or is it possible that a project stays in an incubated state indefinitely? | 20:06 |
| notmyname | mordred: I hope not | 20:06 |
| ttx | mordred: well then the drain on common resources is unwarranted | 20:06 |
| ttx | With that in mind, let's open the discussion on this application | 20:06 |
| gabrielhurley | My impression is that the incubation period is also somewhat about holding the project accountable to a higher standard, e.g. they're ready to play nice with the ecosystem... right? | 20:06 |
| mordred | ok. just clarifying | 20:06 |
| ttx | How about discussing Technical qualities and readiness first, then Project management, then Core scope | 20:06 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: yes | 20:07 |
| ttx | it's about proving you can align, given the help | 20:07 |
| ttx | On the technical qualities, the design and code looks generally good to me... | 20:07 |
| jgriffith | From my perspective they have demonstrated that pretty well already | 20:07 |
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| ttx | Opinions on the technical side ? | 20:07 |
| gabrielhurley | They're pushing in the right directions in terms of their integration with other core projects and helping standardize things, which is a big + for me. | 20:08 |
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| russellb | no objections here. | 20:08 |
| vishy | I don't have any complaints about the technical choices or direction | 20:08 |
| russellb | interfacing at the right level, working hard to help move openstack-common forward to help address their use cases, ... good stuff. | 20:08 |
| vishy | for me it is whether or not metering fits in with core iaas components | 20:08 |
| gabrielhurley | the only thing I'd like to see them focus on technically is fleshing out their API a bit more | 20:08 |
| ttx | OK, let's switch to project management then, if it makes sense technically for everyone | 20:09 |
| ttx | From a project organization perspective, I think Ceilometer was a good example of how it should be done "the openstack way". Starting from scratch... | 20:09 |
| mordred | same as above, project management they've been responsive and interactive | 20:09 |
| ttx | looking for integration points, using common, etc | 20:09 |
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| gabrielhurley | no objections on project management | 20:09 |
| danwent | agreed | 20:09 |
| russellb | yep, seem to have been working hard to do things the openstack way | 20:09 |
| russellb | good openness, communication | 20:09 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 20:10 |
| annegentle-nz | Technically they are sound for devs to contribute and in interacting with common, but I haven't seen much about interaction with operators or a roadmap for H? Is that forthcoming? | 20:10 |
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| gabrielhurley | I heard some informal roadmap talk from them at the summit | 20:10 |
| gabrielhurley | I think if prompted it would be forthcoming in a more formal way | 20:10 |
| ttx | nijaba: care to expand on that ? | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | annegentle-nz: we had a lot of conversations with potential users during the summit, and are working on our roadmap | 20:10 |
| nijaba | annegentle-nz: our roadmap was at http://wiki.openstack.org/EfficientMetering/RoadMap but we exepanded quite a bit our scope at the summit, so we'll have to update it soon | 20:11 |
| nijaba | New objective since the Grizzly summit: The project aims to become the infrastructure for all measurements within OpenStack. | 20:11 |
| annegentle-nz | nijaba: Awesome. The goals for the project are highly desired in operations as far as I can tell from doc search data. | 20:11 |
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| nijaba | and lots of good discussions have happened that way | 20:11 |
| ttx | OK, any more comment on the project management/integration side before we discuss Core scope ? | 20:11 |
| koolhead17 | annegentle-nz, i see a good document in place already :) | 20:12 |
| markmc | sorry I'm late | 20:12 |
| * markmc very happy with ceilometer technically and project management wise | 20:12 | |
| russellb | hey markmc | 20:12 |
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| ttx | OK then the less obvious part, core scope | 20:12 |
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| markmc | imho, you can't run a cloud without billing | 20:12 |
| ttx | Personally, with the extended scope of the project (metering and monitoring), having a central place to collect metrics about your running cloud infra sounds like a good addition to any cloud | 20:13 |
| markmc | seems pretty essential | 20:13 |
| mordred | same here | 20:13 |
| russellb | so, one way i think about this part is, how many people operating openstack need it? | 20:13 |
| russellb | (most of them, IMO) | 20:13 |
| ttx | It's definitely a supporting service... | 20:13 |
| gabrielhurley | In my mind the objective of "measuring" is much more aligned with Core than "metering" and having been looking at what it currently takes to measure things in any one project let alone all of them I think it's very valuable. As Horizon PTL I can say that having another project in core that experiences the pain of consuming *all* the projects is a plus to me. | 20:13 |
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| ttx | Even if it doesn't fall in to the "necessary" category of supporting services (like Keystone), it seems to fall into the "best practice" category (like Horizon) | 20:13 |
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| ttx | And since it's more of a collection service than an action service, it doesn't stretch the definition of openstack core that much | 20:13 |
| ttx | (for most definitions of it :) | 20:13 |
| ttx | Other opinions on that ? | 20:14 |
| russellb | well most people using openstack probably have to invent their own version of this right now | 20:14 |
| * russellb didn't read any objections ... | 20:14 | |
| bcwaldon | russellb: multi-tenant clouds, yes, what about private clouds? | 20:14 |
| jd__ | russellb: this is the case from what we heard and was one of our initial motivation, indeed | 20:14 |
| ttx | Or let me know if you're all ready to vote | 20:14 |
| russellb | i think private clouds too, for doing chargeback | 20:14 |
| nijaba | bcwaldon: Ryan_Lanecould advocate the need for metering without billing | 20:15 |
| mordred | I think the horizon example is a good one | 20:15 |
| annegentle-nz | I think it's a good project to scope to enable adoption without having everyone re-invent the wheel | 20:15 |
| markmc | bcwaldon, billing/metering is pretty essential for private clouds too | 20:15 |
| russellb | holding groups accountable for the resources they consume | 20:15 |
| ttx | or have more questions for the Ceilometer crowd first | 20:15 |
| koolhead17 | markmc, +1 | 20:15 |
| bcwaldon | ok, just wanted to hear the thinking | 20:15 |
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| mordred | in terms of it being 'best-practice' but not required | 20:15 |
| russellb | cool | 20:15 |
| vishy | one other thing we should consider | 20:15 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah, "showback" even if not "chargeback" is definitely a want for private clouds | 20:15 |
| russellb | good way to look at it | 20:15 |
| annegentle-nz | Just heard that you're also working on Operators docs? It's seriously the most searched for topic so the demand for docs is high. | 20:15 |
| vishy | we have to be careful with moving projects to core in the case that it will kill the ecosystem | 20:16 |
| ttx | .. and good measurement is key to healtg monitoring as well | 20:16 |
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| jgriffith | vishy: can you explain a bit for me? | 20:16 |
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| vishy | so if there are competing projects for example we need to be careful about giving a stamp of approval to one | 20:16 |
| ttx | vishy: that's a good argument, but I don't think that's the case here. It actually enables an ecosystem in my view | 20:16 |
| markmc | people might be upset if ceilometer is blessed but their billing project isn't | 20:16 |
| vishy | before it has been fought out in the market. | 20:16 |
| jgriffith | vishy: ahhh | 20:16 |
| markmc | how many other billing projects are are as mature and openstack-like? | 20:16 |
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| russellb | that's an interesting point. | 20:17 |
| gabrielhurley | given the pain involved in extracting measurements right now, the only way an ecosystem could form to fill this gap is if all the projects uniformly adopt much better mechanisms for exposing data that needs measuring. | 20:17 |
| mordred | that is an interesting point - although I am not currently aware of any competing projects | 20:17 |
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| ttx | markmc: ceilometer doesn't do billing though. | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | markmc: we've been very careful to limit ourselves to *measuring* things without actually billing for them, because there are a lot of billing tools | 20:17 |
| nijaba | but since we do not do billing, only measurment, that shold be help for them, not threat | 20:17 |
| mordred | I think it's a good thing to keep in mind in general though | 20:17 |
| vishy | considering there goal of being pluggable to billing systems I think we are ok in that department | 20:17 |
| markmc | s/billing/metering/ | 20:17 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:17 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd see a "billing" project sitting on top of ceilometer | 20:17 |
| russellb | so what else exists that is comparable then? | 20:17 |
| vishy | but there is definitely some overlap with synapse and heat | 20:17 |
| markmc | there was a nova-billing thing | 20:17 |
| markmc | there are proprietary solutions | 20:17 |
| koolhead17 | gabrielhurley, +1 | 20:17 |
| markmc | no overlap with heat, for sure | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | vishy: we're talking with the heat folks about sharing code, and are looking at synaps now, too | 20:18 |
| ttx | well synaps overlaps with heat quite a bit, that's for sure | 20:18 |
| notmyname | markmc: but proprietary systems are part of the ecosystem too | 20:18 |
| russellb | is there code out for synaps yet? | 20:18 |
| vishy | markmc: cloudwatch and ceilometer monitoring overlaps doesn't it? | 20:18 |
| russellb | if not, it doesn't exist IMO. | 20:18 |
| nijaba | markmc: indeed, heat even triggered a very heathly discusison and change of scope | 20:18 |
| ttx | russellb: now yes | 20:18 |
| vishy | russellb: yes the code is out | 20:18 |
| russellb | ok cool. | 20:18 |
| markmc | notmyname, as are proprietary object stores :) | 20:18 |
| nijaba | jd__: did a good analysis of the synaps code | 20:18 |
| jaypipes | vishy: not really... heat and cloudwatch overlap, IIRC | 20:18 |
| mordred | notmyname: totally - but I think if it's something that needs interfaces with things - having an open source bit that fills the spot enables the proprietary systems | 20:18 |
| ttx | anyway, that doesn't seem to be an objection, mpore of a concern to add to our checklist | 20:18 |
| vishy | I actually don't see any reasonable conflicts, I just want to make sure that we consider all of these things | 20:19 |
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| vishy | it should be something that we consider whenever we are promoting | 20:19 |
| jaypipes | understood | 20:19 |
| ttx | Ready to vote ? More comments or questions ? | 20:19 |
| mordred | vishy: ++ | 20:19 |
| russellb | definitely a good point for when heat comes up, more overlap there right now | 20:19 |
| markmc | vishy, ok, yeah - cloudwatch is an extension of ceilometer's current scope | 20:19 |
| markmc | vishy, I'm pretty happy that the heat and ceilometer guys have been working well together on monitoring | 20:19 |
| jd__ | FYI http://julien.danjou.info/blog/2012/openstack-synaps-exploration talks about the overlaps | 20:19 |
| vishy | markmc: ++ | 20:19 |
| markmc | vishy, and monitoring makes more sense in ceilometer than heat | 20:19 |
| * russellb is ready to vote ... | 20:20 | |
| annegentle-nz | I think ceilometer's limited scope is their proof they'll make OpenStack stronger | 20:20 |
| gabrielhurley | agreed | 20:20 |
| ttx | annegentle: interesting way to look at it, but quite true | 20:21 |
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| ttx | Starting the vote in 30 seconds unless someone objects | 20:21 |
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| ttx | Note that according to our charter we need strictly more "yes" than "no" for approving | 20:21 |
| ttx | and at least 5 "yes" (or "no") to come to a permanent approval/rejection | 20:21 |
| danwent | do we have a final statement on scope? | 20:21 |
| annegentle-nz | ttx do you have instructions for voting for newbies? :) | 20:21 |
| gabrielhurley | ^^^that | 20:22 |
| uvirtbot | gabrielhurley: Error: "^^that" is not a valid command. | 20:22 |
| jaypipes | lol | 20:22 |
| jgriffith | danwent: good question... ? | 20:22 |
| markmc | danwent makes a good point | 20:22 |
| danwent | just that it seems like many people running openstack might also use this? I think we're setting a standard that will be used to judge other projects as well. | 20:22 |
| markmc | how do we ensure projects don't grow unlimited in scope? | 20:22 |
| danwent | so i'd like to be a bit more crisp if possible. | 20:22 |
| ttx | danwent: it's in the incubation application. "The project aims to become the infrastructure for all measurements within OpenStack." | 20:22 |
| markmc | do we say "come back to us if you want to grow your scope dramatically?" | 20:22 |
| notmyname | so if "many people running openstack" use something, does it get to be in core? is that the guideline now? | 20:23 |
| ttx | well, any change of scope should be submitted to the TC | 20:23 |
| ttx | dropping large amounts of functionality is also not ok | 20:23 |
| russellb | ttx: is that formalized anywhere? | 20:23 |
| mordred | also, I thnk if someone else thinks that they (or anyone) are exceeding their mandate, that can also always be raised ... | 20:23 |
| ttx | russellb: except in PPB pre-history ? Not really | 20:23 |
| markmc | "measurements" seems like an overly broad scope, at first glance | 20:23 |
| gabrielhurley | "dropping large amounts of functionality"... so Nova should be dropped from Core for excising the volumes code, right? ;-) | 20:24 |
| danwent | sorry, I thought we were going to talk about the scope of what should or should not be a core project. or ttx, did I misunderstand your earlier comment? | 20:24 |
| markmc | e.g. precluding other services for monitoring or performance analysis | 20:24 |
| bcwaldon | I'm actually curious about the stated vs implemented scope of the existing projects - does that exist somewhere? | 20:24 |
| ttx | danwent: we've been doing that for the last 10 minutes ? | 20:24 |
| ttx | starting at: <ttx> OK then the less obvious part, core scope | 20:24 |
| danwent | yes, but I'd like to see an actual statement summarizing what we decided. | 20:24 |
| nijaba | Previous mission statement: The project aims to deliver a unique point of contact for billing systems to aquire all meters they need to establish customer billing, across all current and future OpenStack core components. <-- this is what we are more or less covering at the moment | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | markmc: We don't do a lot of analysis of the things we're measuring now. We leave that up to the consumers. | 20:24 |
| markmc | dhellmann, right, but even collecting performance measurements | 20:25 |
| ttx | danwent: a definitive answer on what should or should not be a core project is out of scope (haha) for this meeting | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | markmc: I see | 20:25 |
| markmc | dhellmann, current statement of scope would make it sounds we won't allow other new projects to do such things, that ceilometer should do all that | 20:25 |
| danwent | i.e., is our measuring stick "it seems like many openstack clouds would need this", how we measure if something should become a core project? | 20:25 |
| ttx | danwent: we can work on that but I expect it will take a few meetings ;) | 20:25 |
| markmc | dhellmann, why 'measurements' and not 'metering' as the project's scope? | 20:25 |
| danwent | ttx: ok | 20:26 |
| russellb | metering implies usage data, right? measurements much more broad, includes anything and everything? | 20:26 |
| nijaba | markmc: because of the extension we discussed with heat and other project to allow for a generic infrastructure for monitoring and alerting | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | markmc: Based on our conversations at the summit with the Heat and StackTach folks, we thought it made sense to collaborate beyond metering for billing and cover measuring things for other purposes, too. We discovered areas we could reuse code, data, etc. | 20:26 |
| danwent | i'm personally very happy with the ceilometer stuff, just concerned about approving it without a more clear statement that would give us guidence on any other project. | 20:26 |
| notmyname | danwent: there is no formalized "scope of openstack" doc anywhere | 20:26 |
| ttx | danwent: that's work in progress | 20:27 |
| markmc | nijaba, that conversation to extend the scope seems to be in progress though, vs ceilometer being well proven for metering | 20:27 |
| ttx | nijaba: so would you call your official name.. OpenStack Metering ? Measuring ? | 20:27 |
| russellb | right now it's gut feeling? heh. | 20:27 |
| nijaba | markmc: true indeed | 20:27 |
| mordred | although I agree with danwent that having such a scope doc would be nice | 20:27 |
| ttx | russellb: it's always been that way so far :P | 20:27 |
| gabrielhurley | +1 to eventually getting a clear definition of scope, but not today | 20:27 |
| russellb | gotta start somewhere, it's all good. | 20:27 |
| * mordred also interested in ttx's 'official name' question | 20:27 | |
| nijaba | ttx: at the moment metering, if all goes well for grizzly, measurement | 20:28 |
| notmyname | likewise, I think the project is solving a real need, but I don't know that it's good as a core project | 20:28 |
| danwent | my gut feeling is that the ceilometer team is doing a good job, and that it will be useful to many deployments, so I guess i'll go with that for now :) | 20:28 |
| ttx | or maybe "OpenStack Metrics" | 20:28 |
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| * annegentle-nz likes metrics service | 20:28 | |
| nijaba | ttx: nice | 20:28 |
| * jaypipes notes that when he hears "metering", he thinks of rate limiting | 20:28 | |
| dhellmann | +1 | 20:28 |
| russellb | metrics implies analysis though | 20:28 |
| russellb | measurements does not | 20:28 |
| markmc | metrics precludes another service doing performance or monitoring metrics | 20:28 |
| mordred | OpenStack numbers collection and stuff? | 20:29 |
| nijaba | lol | 20:29 |
| ttx | mordred++ | 20:29 |
| annegentle-nz | mordred: nice | 20:29 |
| russellb | mordred: awesome. | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | how about "metric collection and aggregation" | 20:29 |
| ttx | yay bikeshedding | 20:29 |
| markmc | why do we not like 'metering'? | 20:29 |
| markmc | extend the scope later if it works out | 20:29 |
| annegentle-nz | if the project is voted for core today, is it grizzly they'll first be in? | 20:29 |
| ttx | MarkAtwood: no need to come up with final name before core inclusion request anyway | 20:29 |
| annegentle-nz | if so we can just go to measurement | 20:30 |
| russellb | annegentle: maybe or maybe not, that's another step | 20:30 |
| ttx | annegentle: no | 20:30 |
| ttx | won't be core until H anyway | 20:30 |
| nijaba | our hope is that our future agent model shold precludes having to rewrite agents for collecting metrics in other projects | 20:30 |
| annegentle-nz | ttx: ok | 20:30 |
| russellb | ah right.. | 20:30 |
| ttx | has to go through the whole dev cycle | 20:30 |
| ttx | ok, ready to vote for Incubation ? Not core. | 20:30 |
| * heckj ready | 20:30 | |
| * jgriffith has been ready | 20:30 | |
| mordred | so ready | 20:30 |
| * annegentle-nz ready | 20:31 | |
| gabrielhurley | let's do this | 20:31 |
| russellb | go go go | 20:31 |
| ttx | Ok Dope, let's do this | 20:31 |
| ttx | #startvote Approve Ceilometer application for incubation? yes, no, abstain | 20:31 |
| gabrielhurley | ha | 20:31 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Approve Ceilometer application for incubation? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. | 20:31 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:31 |
| markmc | #vote yes | 20:31 |
| mordred | #vote yes | 20:31 |
| gabrielhurley | #vote yes | 20:31 |
| ttx | #vote yes | 20:31 |
| heckj | #vote yes | 20:31 |
| russellb | #vote yes | 20:31 |
| danwent | #vote yes | 20:31 |
| annegentle-nz | #vote yes | 20:31 |
| jgriffith | #vote yes | 20:31 |
| jaypipes | #vote abstain | 20:31 |
| notmyname | #vote abstain | 20:31 |
| ttx | vishy, bcwaldon... | 20:32 |
| bcwaldon | #vote abstain | 20:32 |
| vishy | #vote yes | 20:32 |
| * ttx wonders if he missed anyone | 20:32 | |
| notmyname | actually | 20:32 |
| notmyname | #vote no | 20:32 |
| ttx | closing in 30 seconds | 20:32 |
| ttx | #endvote | 20:33 |
| openstack | Voted on "Approve Ceilometer application for incubation?" Results are | 20:33 |
| openstack | yes (10): markmc, ttx, vishy, annegentle-nz, heckj, russellb, jgriffith, mordred, gabrielhurley, danwent | 20:33 |
| openstack | abstain (2): bcwaldon, jaypipes | 20:33 |
| openstack | no (1): notmyname | 20:33 |
| ttx | bcwaldon, jaypipes, notmyname: care to expand ? Could be useful for ceilometer folks to improve in the future ? | 20:33 |
| ttx | not clear from previous discussion why | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | or for future applicants | 20:34 |
| ttx | though "lack of clear definition of core and good separation of power with BoD" certainly qualifies IMHO | 20:34 |
| russellb | i'd like to see the scope solidified during incubation | 20:35 |
| russellb | of Ceilometer that is | 20:35 |
| danwent | I for one would like to see more clarity on what we think belongs in core. | 20:35 |
| ttx | Both we should address in the next months | 20:35 |
| notmyname | I don't think we should be adding new projects before we have a good definition of what openstack core is. we are in a huge danger of scope creep (not to mention the raised issues of ecosystem development). I think they are working on solving a very real need, but I can vote +1 on that alone | 20:35 |
| ttx | notmyname: fair enough | 20:35 |
| russellb | i guess i was banking on the fact that incubation doesn't mean they'll become core | 20:35 |
| notmyname | russellb: it always has in the past | 20:35 |
| russellb | and i sure hope we clarify that before anything else becomes core | 20:35 |
| * markmc thinks we need to discuss the meaning of incubation/core/core etc. outside of the context of any particular application | 20:35 | |
| ttx | russellb: same here, that's why I did that long intro | 20:35 |
| danwent | I voted yes in that I didn't want to slow down the process of them eventually becoming core, assuming the definition of core puts ceilometer in scope | 20:35 |
| annegentle-nz | danwent: good summary | 20:36 |
| russellb | ttx: *nod* | 20:36 |
| danwent | markmc: +1 | 20:36 |
| ttx | markmc +1 | 20:36 |
| ttx | OK, next topic | 20:36 |
| ttx | #topic Discussion: Third-party APIs | 20:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion: Third-party APIs" | 20:36 | |
| nijaba | thanks guys | 20:36 |
| gabrielhurley | yep, incubation very well may *not* mean core if we clarify what "core" means before the incubation period is up. | 20:36 |
| ttx | vishy: want to kick this one? | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | thanks, everyone! | 20:37 |
| vishy | sure | 20:37 |
| vishy | so way back in the day | 20:37 |
| vishy | we voted that 3rd party apis did not belong in the core projects | 20:37 |
| russellb | dhellmann: nijaba etc, nice work, guys | 20:37 |
| jd__ | thanks | 20:37 |
| vishy | but that the projects should attempt to enable 3rd party apis | 20:37 |
| *** markvan has quit IRC | 20:38 | |
| vishy | so we have made steps in nova towards the end of eventually being able to split out ec2 | 20:38 |
| vishy | awsome seems to be totally dead | 20:38 |
| mordred | (and agpl) | 20:38 |
| vishy | and now there is a new api ready to be proposed for nova (google compute engine) | 20:38 |
| ttx | Please note that no formal decision can be made today on this, per our charter -- but the discussion will help vishy draft a proper motion | 20:39 |
| russellb | at least one, if not one or two others ... | 20:39 |
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| ttx | Motion = push it to openstack-dev + openstack-tc for community discussion 4 business days before the next meeting | 20:39 |
| vishy | during the summit we had a discussion about whether it was worth it to continue to block apis | 20:39 |
| vishy | considering the greater cost of testing and integration if we split them out | 20:39 |
| vishy | and the consensus in the meeting was that it would be much easier to just leave them in | 20:39 |
| jaypipes | OCCI... | 20:39 |
| vishy | so the question is, should we revisit the decision | 20:40 |
| russellb | CIMI... | 20:40 |
| bcwaldon | I'm more interested in doing it *right* rather than fast, especially when it means we're blessing more APIs | 20:40 |
| bcwaldon | and throwing everything in the repo lets us get sloppy | 20:40 |
| vishy | bcwaldon: but what is right? forcing them to talk through the public api? | 20:40 |
| vishy | and adding a bunch of extensions for extra functionality? | 20:40 |
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| markmc | there were two benefits to keeping internal - performance and not needing to make a stable public performant API | 20:40 |
| * jaypipes really not a fan of adding these things to Nova... they below as extensions/middleware IMHO | 20:41 | |
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| jaypipes | s/below/belong | 20:41 |
| markmc | there's the ideal theory, and the reality of what work folks are actually showing up with | 20:41 |
| bcwaldon | vishy: I'm not specifying implementation | 20:41 |
| russellb | i'm assuming the burden to keep them up to date is on the submitter/maintainer of the API | 20:41 |
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| ttx | IIRC Swift used the current decision to separate some parts out -- would reversing the decision mean it could be put back in ? | 20:41 |
| bcwaldon | vishy: just assuming we will have more solid internal APIs if we don't throw everything into the repo | 20:41 |
| jgriffith | Personally I feel the Openstack API should be the first class citizen, others should be outside of core | 20:41 |
| markmc | e.g. folks showing up with internally implemented gce code, no-one showing up with a public stable performant api for building other apis on | 20:41 |
| vishy | i don't think we'd be asking for a revert, just the option of either way | 20:41 |
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| gabrielhurley | I like solid APIs, and I'm not a fan of them being in nova, but I'm also not a fan of letting each 3rd=party API project halfass their own implementations externally. neither option seems great. | 20:42 |
| bcwaldon | I also don't want third-party APIs driving us to implement orthogonal things | 20:42 |
| gabrielhurley | though I suppose bitrot in core is as likely as outside | 20:42 |
| bcwaldon | like file injection or passwords | 20:42 |
| jaypipes | ++ | 20:42 |
| russellb | and if it bitrots, we rip it out (like hyper-v) | 20:42 |
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| vishy | I think if we decide that outside is the right way to go, the only way we can prove that architecture works is putting ec2 outside and making it talk through the openstack api and ensuring it works | 20:43 |
| notmyname | the cost to swift of implementing additional APIs comes mostly at the cost of additional developer and review time (and the mismatch of one api for a different implementation). I'm still opposed to adding things like CDMI and S3 into swift itself | 20:43 |
| bcwaldon | +1 to both vishy and notmyname | 20:43 |
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| vishy | essentially I think we have 3 paths forward in nova | 20:43 |
| vishy | 1) make a stable internal version ov compute.api and provide a way for 3rd parties to talk to it (via rpc?) and make ec2 use that | 20:44 |
| markmc | notmyname, that assumes the developers of that api don't become part of the project's developer team | 20:44 |
| vishy | 2) make 3rd parties speak through the rest api and port ec2 to use that | 20:44 |
| vishy | 3) allow 3rd party apis into core | 20:44 |
| russellb | markmc: i'm thinking that's a requirement to have a new API in | 20:44 |
| vishy | all 3 of those are painful, so the question is which is the least painful. | 20:44 |
| ttx | (3) is clearly the path of least resist=ance, but not a big fan of it | 20:44 |
| mordred | I like 2 the best, but I'm not doing any of the work | 20:44 |
| annegentle-nz | vishy: what does "port ec2 to use that" entail? | 20:44 |
| notmyname | vishy: what's the difference in 1 and 2? | 20:45 |
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| vishy | 1 is a stable api that already exists | 20:45 |
| * markmc thinks (3) gives a nice new feature, new developers, no additional work with no volunteers, ... | 20:45 | |
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| vishy | all of the existing api consumers use the internal implementation though | 20:45 |
| lifeless | win 62 | 20:45 |
| vishy | so there is a lot more work to port things in 2 | 20:45 |
| markmc | compute.api is not a stable api | 20:45 |
| bcwaldon | markmc: should it be? | 20:45 |
| russellb | vishy: and i'm not really comfortable signing up for all of that to be considered a stable public API | 20:45 |
| markmc | bcwaldon, yes, if we're telling external projects to build on it | 20:46 |
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| jog0 | how do options 1,2 handle metadata services? | 20:46 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm a fan of #1 because it doesn't proliferate HTTP calls all over the place. | 20:46 |
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| markmc | jog0, annoying little details aren't welcome here :) | 20:46 |
| bcwaldon | making compute.api stable has several benefits | 20:46 |
| russellb | but i don't know how practical it is | 20:46 |
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| notmyname | gabrielhurley: that's an implementation detail that may not apply to all projects | 20:47 |
| vishy | jog0: that is a solvable problem i think but yes it is a little tricky | 20:47 |
| vishy | notmyname: note that I'm not suggesting in any of the options that we require 3rd party apis be allowed in | 20:47 |
| vishy | notmyname: 3rd party apis remaining outside makes perfect sense for swift | 20:48 |
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| notmyname | vishy: no, the arguments can be made both ways. seems that a good argument to include a 3rd party API is a good argument because it can be applied to all projects | 20:49 |
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| jgriffith | At some point I think the notion of a *stable* api is going to have to be addressed | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | The only question for me given the options is if now is the right time | 20:49 |
| ttx | jgriffith: if that's where we are heading anyway, implementing another option in the mean time sounds like wasted effort ? | 20:50 |
| * ttx doesn't like when there is no good solution | 20:50 | |
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| vishy | so can we get a quick show of hands on whether a proposal to revert the ppb decision is worth it? | 20:50 |
| annegentle-nz | vishy: can your proposal include a draft roadmap? | 20:50 |
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| annegentle-nz | vishy: I think a proposal will help | 20:50 |
| vishy | annegentle-nz: for what as the goal? | 20:51 |
| annegentle-nz | vishy: to help clarify timing | 20:51 |
| vishy | I don't want to temporarily move these things into core | 20:51 |
| annegentle-nz | vishy: right, but wondering if it's a G thing or an H thing, that sort of timing | 20:51 |
| vishy | if they are coming in then I don't think there will be a good reason to remove them. | 20:51 |
| markmc | vishy, perhaps the proposal should be to add 'nuance' to the previous decisions :) | 20:51 |
| vishy | annegentle-nz: well number 3 which i'm proposing doesn't take any time at all | 20:51 |
| vishy | I can't do number 3 without violating the ppb edict | 20:52 |
| annegentle-nz | vishy: heh, true that | 20:52 |
| markmc | vishy, e.g. the previous decision said that projects should aim to provide a public stable performant api for 3rd party apis to build on | 20:52 |
| ttx | it just adds technical debt in a more obvious way than the others | 20:52 |
| markmc | vishy, we're IMHO really saying that if no-one shows up to do that work, we shouldn't reject new 3rd party apis | 20:52 |
| notmyname | the choice between 1 and 2 should be made internal to nova. the question of [(1 || 2) || 3] should be made by the TC, IMO | 20:52 |
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| ttx | Looks like this is not crystallizing into a clear choice yet | 20:53 |
| mordred | notmyname: ++ | 20:53 |
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| jaypipes | ttx: does it ever? :) | 20:53 |
| vishy | notmyname: well the question of wether to allow 1&2 or 3 is tc | 20:53 |
| vishy | so far it has decided only 1||2 not 3 | 20:54 |
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| notmyname | vishy: right | 20:54 |
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| ttx | time is running out, I propose we continue that discussion in next meeting | 20:55 |
| vishy | notmyname: ok I will put together a real proposal for this, although I'm still wondering if it is worth the time | 20:55 |
| ttx | or decide on a motion if it's proposed by then | 20:55 |
| * russellb thinks it is | 20:55 | |
| vishy | k | 20:55 |
| ttx | vishy: there definitely is a need, there just isn't lazy consensus around any particular solution | 20:55 |
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| markmc | IMHO discussion should be on openstack-dev | 20:56 |
| ttx | Other topics are postponed to next meeting as well, which brings us to the next topic | 20:56 |
| markmc | and folks with strong opinions should bring them up there | 20:56 |
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| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:56 |
| ttx | markmc: yeah, hasting the discussion there should definitely give us more input | 20:56 |
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| gabrielhurley | +1 | 20:56 |
| markmc | rather than just vote against any motion rather than taking part in the discussion | 20:56 |
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| ttx | markmc: well motions need to be discussed on openstack-dev, but in this case, it sounds useful to gather input even before proposing motion | 20:57 |
| ttx | #topic Date/time for next meeting | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Date/time for next meeting" | 20:57 | |
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| ttx | So... I won't be around for next week meeting | 20:57 |
| russellb | same time next week works for me. | 20:57 |
| markmc | ttx, yep | 20:57 |
| ttx | Leaving us with 3 options: | 20:57 |
| russellb | burn. | 20:57 |
| ttx | 1/ Skip it and have the next one on November 6 | 20:57 |
| ttx | 2/ Have it at the regular time, without me (volunteer chair ?) | 20:57 |
| ttx | 3/ Have it next week, but on a different day (suggestion: Wed at 2100 UTC) | 20:57 |
| ttx | (on another note, Europe abandons DST next Sunday, so we enter confusion zone) | 20:57 |
| markmc | all 3 work for me | 20:57 |
| mordred | 3 is halloween, just for people who care | 20:58 |
| russellb | same | 20:58 |
| ttx | would prefer 1 or 3 | 20:58 |
| gabrielhurley | 1 or 2 | 20:58 |
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| annegentle-nz | 2 or 3 for me | 20:58 |
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| gabrielhurley | :-( | 20:58 |
| annegentle-nz | spooky TC meeting? | 20:58 |
| heckj | 1 or 2 better for me | 20:58 |
| mordred | ooo | 20:58 |
| ttx | mordred: how fast do you need discussion on your topics ? Can wait Nov 6 ? | 20:58 |
| mordred | I cannot be here nov 6 at 2100 UTC | 20:58 |
| ttx | that simplifies | 20:58 |
| vishy | 2 | 20:59 |
| ttx | so 2 or 3 | 20:59 |
| mordred | so if we don't do it next week, we'll do it nov 13 | 20:59 |
| ttx | I prefer 3 | 20:59 |
| mordred | I mean, we could wait until nov 13 | 20:59 |
| ttx | mordred: that would create a bit of backlog | 20:59 |
| mordred | it just means we're going to be not changing anything about build slaves until then | 20:59 |
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| ttx | anyone that says 2 needs to volunteer for chairing :) | 20:59 |
| mordred | I can chair, since I've got the contentious issue? | 21:00 |
| ttx | [I'll still organize the agenda] | 21:00 |
| * jgriffith will vote for 2 now :) | 21:00 | |
| ttx | ok then - 2 with mordred chairing. Objections ? | 21:00 |
| annegentle-nz | mordred: ttx: I can chair since mordred has to discuss? If needed. | 21:00 |
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| heckj | works for me | 21:00 |
| mordred | cool by me | 21:00 |
| gabrielhurley | +1 | 21:00 |
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| jaypipes | +1 | 21:00 |
| russellb | +0 | 21:01 |
| ttx | mordred: that's 21:00 local time for you | 21:01 |
| ttx | (where you'll be) | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 23 21:01:18 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2012/tc.2012-10-23-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2012/tc.2012-10-23-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2012/tc.2012-10-23-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
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| ttx | And now ttx realizes he chairs two consecutive meetings | 21:01 |
| ttx | markmc, heckj, notmyname, bcwaldon, jgriffith, vishy, gabrielhurley, danwent: still around ? | 21:02 |
| notmyname | here | 21:02 |
| gabrielhurley | o/ | 21:02 |
| russellb | ttx: because you're awesome like that | 21:02 |
| jgriffith | ./ | 21:02 |
| danwent | o/ | 21:02 |
| heckj | physically | 21:02 |
| russellb | markmc is out, but i can be his openstack-common rep. | 21:02 |
| danwent | heckj +1 | 21:02 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Oct 23 21:02:31 2012 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:02 |
| vishy | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | Agenda @ http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| ttx | #topic Design Summit feedback | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit feedback" | 21:02 | |
| ttx | While it's hot, any comment on the OpenStack Summit in general, and the Design Summit track in particular ? | 21:03 |
| notmyname | the content/audience match was off for me | 21:03 |
| ttx | Did the format work OK ? (4 days with 4 parallel topics + 1 unconference, running parallel to rest of Summit) | 21:03 |
| MarkAtwood | i enjoyed being there, but i was notincg a scaling issue with the design meetings | 21:03 |
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| jgriffith | I think paralell introduced some challenges in the design sessions | 21:04 |
| ttx | MarkAtwood: as in too many people in design summit sessions ? | 21:04 |
| russellb | by day 4 of design summit sessions i was fried. | 21:04 |
| gabrielhurley | I missed being able to attend more of the "use case"-type talks, but otherwise didn't mind the format. | 21:04 |
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| ttx | My voice was fried on day 1 | 21:04 |
| danwent | yeah, i felt like there were a lot of "conference" people in the "summit" session. Also, after 3 days of sessions, I was fried. | 21:04 |
| heckj | more user feedback during sessions == goodness, but less brainstorming/design that didn't go off the rails with lots of relatively uninformed voices | 21:04 |
| russellb | yeah, i didn't get to any of the non-design sessions, which would have been nice | 21:04 |
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| vishy | 4 days was pretty brutal for nova | 21:04 |
| jgriffith | But having people asking how object store in cinder works in design sessions was wasteful | 21:05 |
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| ttx | vishy: could you have done with less ? | 21:05 |
| russellb | some of the nova sessions could have been vetted more and then not done at all | 21:05 |
| * vishy didn't notice the issue that danwent and notmyname are mentioning | 21:05 | |
| gabrielhurley | though I agree on the occasional audience mismatch, I also found I ended up talking to people who otherwise wouldn't have been in design sessions and that's (occasionally) good for growing the base. | 21:05 |
| vishy | maybe they flocked to quantum and swift :) | 21:05 |
| notmyname | :-) | 21:05 |
| russellb | so we probably could have done 3 days of good sessions | 21:05 |
| jeblair | quantum had a huge number of quiet people in the room... | 21:05 |
| russellb | zomg networkz | 21:06 |
| ttx | the trick is that there is no good way of refining attendance, short of making the design summit invite-only..; which sends the wrong message | 21:06 |
| heckj | quantum was attrociously packed | 21:06 |
| danwent | yeah | 21:06 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I think splitting helped with some of that | 21:06 |
| lloydde | the user sessions were over cap too | 21:06 |
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| ttx | so plan B (try to attract business types in other rooms) kinda worked | 21:06 |
| MarkAtwood | it may be worth social engeineering, put in the conference schedule, the guids, and in signs on the doors to the sessions | 21:06 |
| danwent | well, i think its really that there's the overlap between the conference and the summit, and conference people decided to hang out in sessions, even though there was no intent to contribute code, and no experience using openstack. | 21:06 |
| jgriffith | danwent: ++++1 | 21:07 |
| MarkAtwood | "this is an advanced session, not a training session, please contribute if you are up to speed" | 21:07 |
| MarkAtwood | rewritten for grace and diplomacy, of course | 21:07 |
| danwent | if this happened for jgriffith but not vishy, perhaps its more for the newer projects where people are more curious | 21:07 |
| ttx | MarkAtwood: there were pretty obvious signs that they were entering development zone | 21:07 |
| jeblair | since "ci" topics were on a separate track, it meant that we often didn't get people we would have liked. having more PTLs to talk about testr and distribution support would have been esuful. | 21:07 |
| ttx | but maybe we can separate the events more | 21:07 |
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| danwent | ttx: that is my thinking | 21:07 |
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| ttx | Next time, 4th floor ! | 21:07 |
| jgriffith | LOL | 21:08 |
| ttx | Or solve a riddle to get there | 21:08 |
| russellb | basement! | 21:08 |
| jgriffith | No escalator! | 21:08 |
| russellb | with a scary entrance | 21:08 |
| danwent | haha… time separation > space separation | 21:08 |
| gabrielhurley | Even just marking how "advanced" a particular session is might be helpful | 21:08 |
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| ttx | time separation won't work. They will come | 21:08 |
| danwent | it was better before we combined days | 21:08 |
| MarkAtwood | require foundation membership and/or signed contributoir agreement? | 21:08 |
| jgriffith | Regardless, it was workable but I was done by Thursday for sure | 21:09 |
| danwent | (at least from my perspective) | 21:09 |
| vishy | how about a terminal where you have to do a series of git commands to unlock the door | 21:09 |
| danwent | vishy: ++ | 21:09 |
| jgriffith | vishy: Nice!!! | 21:09 |
| vishy | :) | 21:09 |
| koolhead17 | vishy, :P | 21:09 |
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| jeblair | vishy: a lot of devs would fail that. :( | 21:09 |
| jgriffith | I say we vote! | 21:09 |
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| ttx | ok, well if you've a good suggestion, please send it my way | 21:09 |
| jgriffith | can you clone the nova repo? You're in | 21:09 |
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| russellb | or a simple python task ... | 21:10 |
| ttx | since format on the next one should be decided pretty quickly | 21:10 |
| ttx | by default, the same format will be done again | 21:10 |
| ttx | though we can discuss separation / special badges | 21:10 |
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| * jgriffith will start training for it | 21:10 | |
| ttx | and/or reducing days / parallel tracks | 21:10 |
| ttx | #topic Grizzly release schedule | 21:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Grizzly release schedule" | 21:10 | |
| ttx | We looked into the proposed schedule at the Design Summit | 21:11 |
| ttx | Here is the final proposal: | 21:11 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/GrizzlyReleaseSchedule | 21:11 |
| ttx | (no change since Friday) | 21:11 |
| * gabrielhurley likes special badges | 21:11 | |
| ttx | err Thursday | 21:11 |
| ttx | Business summary: It is the same as the Folsom schedule, with one additional week in the second milestone to account for the Christmas holidays. | 21:11 |
| ttx | Any comment before we officialize it ? | 21:11 |
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| ttx | I guess not. | 21:12 |
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| ttx | #agreed http://wiki.openstack.org/GrizzlyReleaseSchedule | 21:13 |
| ttx | #topic Oslo status | 21:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo status" | 21:13 | |
| ttx | russellb: hey | 21:13 |
| russellb | hey | 21:13 |
| ttx | So I added Oslo (openstack-common library name) as a regular status report in this meeting | 21:13 |
| russellb | sounds good. | 21:13 |
| ttx | russellb: does markmc want to track the blueprint work at launchpad.net/openstack-common or launchpad.net/oslo ? | 21:13 |
| russellb | so out of the summit, moving forward with libraryification is the #1 priority | 21:13 |
| ttx | need to create a grizzly series wherever you prefer | 21:14 |
| russellb | good question. we already have a lot of history in openstack-common ... can be it be moved? | 21:14 |
| ttx | it.. can. Might be shorter to rename project though | 21:14 |
| ttx | #action ttx to see with markmc to move openstack-common to oslo | 21:14 |
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| ttx | #action ttx to create grizzly series wherever needed | 21:15 |
| ttx | (and milestones) | 21:15 |
| russellb | looks like oslo-cfg is the targeted first library release | 21:15 |
| ttx | The idea is to come up, in the next two weeks, with a good roadmap for Grizzly objectives | 21:15 |
| ttx | Get people to file blueprints, set series goal to "grizzly" where appropriate... prioritize them and target to a given milestone | 21:15 |
| russellb | k, markmc will be back next week, i don't think it will be a problem to work through the roadmap before 2 weeks from now based on summit output | 21:16 |
| ttx | we might need to clarify the versioning question first | 21:16 |
| ttx | #action ttx to discuss oslo versioning with mordred and markmc | 21:16 |
| russellb | cool, don't think I have anything else to report | 21:16 |
| ttx | russellb: Anything else you wanted to mention ? | 21:16 |
| ttx | Questions on Oslo ? | 21:16 |
| bcwaldon | yes | 21:17 |
| ttx | bcwaldon: go for it | 21:17 |
| bcwaldon | I'd like to hear an explanation of the scope of Oslo | 21:17 |
| bcwaldon | and what code should live there | 21:17 |
| russellb | code useful for multiple openstack projects, but not necessarily generally useful outside of openstack | 21:18 |
| bcwaldon | russellb: thats still rather generic, no? | 21:18 |
| russellb | it is, indeed. | 21:18 |
| russellb | but Oslo will not be one library | 21:18 |
| bcwaldon | russellb: ok, if thats then intention, then ok | 21:18 |
| russellb | the plan is to have multiple libraries released under the oslo namespace | 21:18 |
| ttx | http://wiki.openstack.org/CommonLibrary has a good set of rules of thumb | 21:18 |
| bcwaldon | russellb: and I'd love to hear when we can consume Oslo as an importable library rather than carrying it everywhere | 21:18 |
| bcwaldon | i might just be out of ze loop | 21:19 |
| russellb | asap basically, but it's one API at a time | 21:19 |
| heckj | bcwaldon: +1 - I know it's the top priority | 21:19 |
| russellb | so oslo-cfg will be the first library | 21:19 |
| bcwaldon | ok, carry on then | 21:19 |
| ttx | Any other question ? | 21:19 |
| russellb | understand the managed copy-paste thing is a pain, but hopefully it's better overall than unmanaged copying around | 21:19 |
| bcwaldon | russellb: yes, but only slightly | 21:20 |
| ttx | markmc had a good list of library candidates at the summit session, he should be able to publicize it more clearly | 21:20 |
| russellb | :) | 21:20 |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:20 |
| russellb | yup | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status" | 21:20 | |
| ttx | heckj: o/ | 21:20 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/grizzly | 21:20 |
| ttx | #action ttx to create milestones according to Release Schedule | 21:20 |
| heckj | collating blueprints from the summit and starting to work out who's going to do what | 21:20 |
| ttx | heckj: you should already be able to target the ones that will land in grizzly-1 | 21:20 |
| ttx | heckj: same as oslo, the idea is to come up with a good roadmap in the next two weeks | 21:21 |
| heckj | ttx: agreed | 21:21 |
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| ttx | Set the series goal for all the relevant ones to "grizzly" | 21:21 |
| ttx | You can also clean up https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone by setting some of them obsolete/superseded | 21:21 |
| ttx | Note that there is one that was "proposed" for Grizzly, that you may want to review @ https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/grizzly/+setgoals | 21:22 |
| heckj | started, but not complete in both spaces, as well as generally prioritizing them all | 21:22 |
| ttx | heckj: Cool. Anything else ? | 21:22 |
| ttx | Did your sessions go well ? | 21:22 |
| heckj | great feedback at the summit, looking to take the general interest into solid implementation over the next couple of months | 21:22 |
| ttx | Questions about Keystone ? | 21:22 |
| ttx | #topic Swift status | 21:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift status" | 21:23 | |
| notmyname | o/ | 21:23 |
| ttx | notmyname: hi! | 21:23 |
| ttx | Any idea what your next version should be called ? 1.8.0 ? 1.7.6 ? | 21:23 |
| ttx | I'd like to create the first Grizzly milestone for you so that stuff can be targeted to it -- maybe we can pick a name and rename it later if you change your mind ? | 21:23 |
| notmyname | we're still tracking for 1.7.5 on trunk | 21:23 |
| ttx | maybe I should just call it 1.7.5 and rename it if needed later ? | 21:24 |
| notmyname | ya | 21:24 |
| notmyname | so far, I expect this one to be 1.7.4 | 21:24 |
| notmyname | err | 21:24 |
| notmyname | 1.7.5 | 21:24 |
| ttx | #action ttx to create 1.7.5 milestone in swift/grizzly | 21:24 |
| ttx | Also you have one "proposed for Grizzly" blueprint in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/swift/grizzly/+setgoals that you may want to review | 21:24 |
| ttx | notmyname: anything else ? How were the Swift sessions at the Design Summit ? | 21:24 |
| notmyname | the sessions were ok. lot's on interested but uninformed people at the design sessions. but we had some good discussions at times | 21:25 |
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| notmyname | overall I'm excited about what things will be added in grizzly | 21:26 |
| ttx | Re: uninformed people: be sure to mention that in the official survey that should come out soon -- will give us more leverage to negociate more separation | 21:26 |
| ttx | Questions on Swift ? | 21:26 |
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| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status" | 21:27 | |
| ttx | bcwaldon: o/ | 21:27 |
| bcwaldon | hey hey | 21:27 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/grizzly | 21:27 |
| ttx | Looks well advanced already... | 21:27 |
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| bcwaldon | why thank you | 21:27 |
| ttx | You might want to parse https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance and mark obsolete/superseded accordingly | 21:27 |
| bcwaldon | yep | 21:27 |
| bcwaldon | havent been able to do the first pass of tactical planning after the summit yet | 21:27 |
| ttx | and try to come up with a reasonable grizzly plan two weeks from now | 21:28 |
| ttx | does that sound doable ? | 21:28 |
| bcwaldon | set the bar low | 21:28 |
| bcwaldon | fantastic | 21:28 |
| ttx | Well, I'll skip next week's meeting, so ... ;) | 21:28 |
| ttx | bcwaldon: Anything else ? | 21:28 |
| bcwaldon | I did want to thank all those that attended the Glance summit sessions | 21:29 |
| bcwaldon | they were very targeted | 21:29 |
| bcwaldon | we had all the discussions we needed to | 21:29 |
| ttx | I missed them all, hope you wren't alone in those | 21:29 |
| bcwaldon | not at all | 21:29 |
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| ttx | not too much noise / people without a clue ? | 21:29 |
| bcwaldon | nope, Glance is rather small and unintersting | 21:29 |
| ttx | Looks like it's only Swift/Quantum that were invaded | 21:30 |
| ttx | openstack-common and Process were alright | 21:30 |
| ttx | Questions on Glance ? | 21:30 |
| bcwaldon | Glance only had 3 sessions, so we didnt give the masses much of a chance | 21:30 |
| ttx | Pick boring titles, that's the key | 21:30 |
| bcwaldon | you've figured me out! | 21:30 |
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| ttx | "Stable branch maintenance" | 21:30 |
| bcwaldon | Image Workers | 21:30 |
| ttx | bcwaldon: lol | 21:31 |
| bcwaldon | that was for you, markwash | 21:31 |
| bcwaldon | ...moving on | 21:31 |
| ttx | #topic Quantum status | 21:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quantum status" | 21:31 | |
| ttx | danwent: hey | 21:31 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/grizzly | 21:31 |
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| danwent | hey | 21:31 |
| ttx | Don't forget to set priorities when you add a blueprint to the "grizzly" series goal | 21:31 |
| danwent | at team meeting yesterday we went over all key blueprints that need to be filed for g-1 | 21:32 |
| ttx | Same as others, now is a good time to go through https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum and mark obsolete/superseded accordingly | 21:32 |
| danwent | but i'd say about 2/3 have not yet been filed | 21:32 |
| ttx | A number of blueprints have been "proposed" for grizzly, so you might want to review them at: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/grizzly/+setgoals | 21:32 |
| danwent | yup, makes sense | 21:32 |
| ttx | 8 in there | 21:32 |
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| ttx | So yeah, start with G1 objectives, and try to come up with a longer grizzly roadmap in two weeks time | 21:33 |
| ttx | danwent: Anything else ? | 21:33 |
| danwent | nope | 21:33 |
| ttx | Questions on Quantum ? | 21:33 |
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| ttx | Even if we don't have a meeting next week, expect me to push for blueprints by IRC pings... just no need to have another meeting to say "one more week!" | 21:34 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status" | 21:34 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: o/ | 21:34 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/grizzly | 21:34 |
| jgriffith | hey there | 21:34 |
| ttx | Nothing in there yet :) | 21:34 |
| jgriffith | I have 2 weeks to clean this up :) | 21:35 |
| ttx | There are two proposed @ https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/grizzly/+setgoals | 21:35 |
| ttx | Looks like you can also parse https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder for good grizzly candidates | 21:35 |
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| ttx | and obsolete/supersede the others | 21:35 |
| ttx | How dod the Cinder sessions go ? | 21:35 |
| ttx | did* | 21:35 |
| jgriffith | Yep, we're in the process of creating session outcomes to bp's | 21:35 |
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| jgriffith | Really well for the first Cinder summit (IMO) | 21:35 |
| jgriffith | some sessions had the looky-lou problem | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | but all in all | 21:36 |
| ttx | Got enough time to discuss what you needed ? | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | yes, I think any more time would've just caused more trouble | 21:36 |
| ttx | jgriffith: Anything else ? | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | Nope | 21:36 |
| ttx | Questions on Cinder ? | 21:36 |
| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status" | 21:37 | |
| ttx | vishy: o/ | 21:37 |
| creiht | cinder rooms could have been larger :) | 21:37 |
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| vishy | hi | 21:37 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/grizzly | 21:37 |
| ttx | Also 7 proposed at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/grizzly/+setgoals | 21:38 |
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| vishy | there will be a lot more in there | 21:38 |
| ttx | and loads of potential cleanup in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova as always :) | 21:38 |
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| vishy | I'm currently going through session notes and trying to crystalize them into decisions and blueprints | 21:38 |
| vishy | probably will take me until next week | 21:38 |
| ttx | vishy: is two weeks reasonable to come up with a realatively sane grizzly roadmap ? | 21:38 |
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| vishy | sure | 21:39 |
| vishy | two weeks seems reasonable | 21:39 |
| ttx | vishy: you mentioned you could have done with less Nova at the summit ? | 21:39 |
| vishy | well i just was fried by the end | 21:40 |
| ttx | what would have been the good length ? 3 days ? | 21:40 |
| vishy | I think 3 days for nova | 21:40 |
| vishy | and a day off to peruse other tracks or sleep | 21:40 |
| vishy | would be good :) | 21:40 |
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| ttx | then have other connected topics on the 4th day (process/qa/common etc) | 21:40 |
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| * ttx tries to internalize all feedback | 21:40 | |
| ttx | vishy: Anything else ? | 21:41 |
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| vishy | nothing for me | 21:41 |
| ttx | vishfacts: Vish can attend all sessions of the Design Summit. | 21:41 |
| ttx | Questions on Nova ? | 21:41 |
| gabrielhurley | vish doesn't attend the design summit, the design summit attends vish. | 21:41 |
| ttx | #topic Horizon status | 21:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status" | 21:42 | |
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| ttx | gabrielhurley: I didn't follow, were you Dope or Stack ? | 21:42 |
| gabrielhurley | I was Terrence Dope | 21:42 |
| gabrielhurley | http://dopenstack.com | 21:42 |
| ttx | you'll always be Terrence Dope now | 21:42 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/grizzly | 21:43 |
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| ttx | Looks pretty good to me already :) | 21:43 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah, I've been grooming it | 21:43 |
| ttx | You might want to parse https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon and mark obsolete/superseded the ones that are polluting the view, if any | 21:43 |
| gabrielhurley | I opened a whole slew of new blueprints after the sumit | 21:43 |
| ttx | rather than let them pile up | 21:43 |
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| gabrielhurley | they're actually more-or-less all correct | 21:44 |
| gabrielhurley | and should be targeted to either G or H | 21:44 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: did you end up having enough, or too much time on the Horizon topic for the summit ? | 21:44 |
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| gabrielhurley | just about right. I spend most of my Horizon time talking about cross-project stuff anyhow. | 21:44 |
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| ttx | yeah | 21:44 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: anything else ? | 21:45 |
| gabrielhurley | attendance was good, and the sessions were excellent. thanks for everyone involved! | 21:45 |
| gabrielhurley | can't think of anything urgent. I've got some stuff to bring tothe mailing list in the next week or so. | 21:45 |
| ttx | I really enjoyed the process ones I attended. For some reason there were not tha many people around and we had good discussions | 21:45 |
| ttx | +1 for being boring | 21:45 |
| ttx | Questions for Horizon ? | 21:45 |
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| ttx | #topic Other Team reports | 21:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other Team reports" | 21:46 | |
| ttx | QA, CI: anyone ? | 21:46 |
| ttx | davidkranz: want to give some feedback from QA topic at the Summit, if around ? | 21:46 |
| davidkranz | ttx: Sure. | 21:47 |
| ttx | davidkranz: how did that go ? | 21:47 |
| davidkranz | Pretty well I think. The trick is the follow through. | 21:47 |
| davidkranz | Rackspace is going to upload all their tests soon. | 21:48 |
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| ttx | davidkranz: did you get the people you needed on those sessions ? | 21:48 |
| ttx | and not too many of the people you didn't need ? | 21:48 |
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| davidkranz | We didn't have many ptls, but we used one of Dan's sessions for the quantum stuff which was the most important. | 21:48 |
| mordred | davidkranz: we've already made progress on testtools/testr and I think you're going to like it | 21:48 |
| ttx | I think it's easier this way around | 21:48 |
| davidkranz | Dan Prince was interested in more use of SmokeStack. | 21:49 |
| davidkranz | mordred: That's great. | 21:49 |
| ttx | davidkranz: anything else ? | 21:49 |
| davidkranz | ttx: We also had some in-person QA meetings with summaries posted to the qa list. | 21:49 |
| davidkranz | ttx: That's about it. | 21:50 |
| ttx | Any other team lead with a status report ? | 21:50 |
| mordred | tons of sessions involved cI | 21:50 |
| mordred | https://etherpad.openstack.org/state-of-ci | 21:50 |
| mordred | there's what we collected overall | 21:50 |
| mordred | for those who are interested | 21:50 |
| mordred | also, if you didn't notice, we have a new etherpad server | 21:50 |
| ttx | mordred: I think the Process topic went well overall, what do you think ? | 21:50 |
| mordred | I agree too | 21:50 |
| ttx | mordred: people too fried to disagree with moderator | 21:50 |
| mordred | I do not really remember any contentious topics | 21:51 |
| ttx | mordred: I just rememberd that we need to discuss oslo versioning once markmc will be back | 21:51 |
| mordred | yes | 21:51 |
| ttx | i.e. aligned vs. tag vs. forward vs. pip | 21:51 |
| russellb | ttx: you set that as an action back in the oslo topic | 21:51 |
| ttx | yep | 21:51 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion" | 21:52 | |
| ttx | #info We'll skip the meeting next week | 21:52 |
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| ttx | As mordred knows, i'll have better things to do | 21:52 |
| ttx | and I don't expect the plans to be finalized anyway | 21:52 |
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| ttx | So not so much to discuss in-meeting | 21:52 |
| mordred | see you all at UDS next week... | 21:52 |
| * mordred cries | 21:52 | |
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| ttx | I'll bug you all in the next two weeks so that we make progress on that though. | 21:52 |
| * russellb won't be there :-p | 21:53 | |
| ttx | (that being, grizzly plans) | 21:53 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:53 |
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| ttx | Next meeting on Nov 6 | 21:53 |
| ttx | WARNING WARNING we are entering DST confusion zone | 21:54 |
| ttx | Europe drops DST this weekend | 21:54 |
| ttx | Please triple-check meeting times (they are in UTC!) before going to one | 21:54 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Oct 23 21:54:57 2012 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2012/project.2012-10-23-21.02.html | 21:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2012/project.2012-10-23-21.02.txt | 21:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2012/project.2012-10-23-21.02.log.html | 21:55 |
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