Wednesday, 2012-10-31

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* DuncanT is here early for a change15:59
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jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Oct 31 16:01:37 2012 UTC.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:01
jgriffithe'lo, e'lo16:02
jgriffithThere's everybody :)16:02
jgriffith#topic removal of nova-volume code16:03
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creihtI'll be here the first 30 mins16:03
rnirmalmade it16:03
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jgriffithSo...  I think there was some confusion (on my part included) as to how the deprecation of nova-vol was going to happen16:03
jgriffithrnirmal: excellent16:03
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jgriffithFor those that haven't seen patches have been going into nova master to remove nova-vol16:04
jgriffithA few folks were surprised by this, so thought I should make sure we brought it up today16:04
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jgriffithSo it's deprecated in Folsom, out in Grizzly16:04
hemnayah that makes sense16:04
hemnait's confusing that both are in now16:04
jgriffithI know this might cause some trouble for some folks (rnirmal)16:04
hemnafor those of us that want to run off of trunk16:04
jgriffithany concerns/issues from other folks that might be using nova-vol/master in production?16:05
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rnirmalwell didn't seem to be really deprecated in folsom right since all patches were backported16:05
jgriffithrnirmal: Yep, agreed16:05
DuncanTWe were expecting nova-volumes of be bugfix only for G, not pulled16:05
jgriffithSo DuncanT were you all planning to *use* nova-vol in Grizzly?16:06
DuncanTThis change is definitely causing us to have to change plans for realignment with trunk16:06
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DuncanTjgriffith: Possibly for a short period, yes16:06
creihtjgriffith: I don't think it was effectivly communicated to the community16:06
hemnaI thought n-vol was out in Grizzly16:06
rnirmalthe process as such.16:06
jgriffithcreiht: You are correct, it was not16:07
creihtthough I feared that might happen, and was one of the reasons we switched to cinder asap16:07
jgriffithhemna: Yes, some thought it was, some thougt it wasn't16:07
hemnaheh ok16:07
winston-di thought n-vol will be there for 2,3 more release16:07
jgriffithcreiht: :)16:07
DuncanTjgriffith: It isn't that we can't do things differently, just that I specifically asked, got an answer and the answer was wrong16:07
jgriffithwinston-d: No, but 1 maybe16:07
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DuncanT1 more release, with no new features, was what we expected16:07
jgriffithDuncanT: Yeah and I think that was more my fault than anybody elses16:07
jgriffithDuncanT: TBH, that's what I expected as well16:08
jgriffithSo, here's my point16:08
jgriffithIf this is going to be a huge deal for folks we can always go to the Nova team and state a case for leaving it in as deprecated16:09
jgriffithTBH I'm happy to see it gone, but I understand the *real* world works differently16:09
winston-djgriffith, TBH i'm happy too, but i'm not a operation guy.16:09
DuncanTSo my biggest concern is how to avoid this happening again with other nova <-> cinder integration issues in future. Seeing it back in and depricated according to communicated schedule would be nice, but is a secondary concern16:10
jgriffithwinston-d: yes, you and I are lucky16:10
DuncanTSeeing it stay in until after G-1 would be a good compremise, maybe?16:10
jgriffithDuncanT: Well, as far as Cinder... I'll learn from my mistakes :)16:10
jgriffithDuncanT: I can't promise what other folks/projects will do16:10
rnirmalyeah agree with DuncanT on atleast till G-116:11
jgriffithDuncanT: Although TBH as I mentioned I was just as surprised to see it removed16:11
jgriffithDuncanT: rnirmal Ok, I'll talk to vish about it16:11
winston-dso if n-vol stays in G, will new features be added to it? no?16:12
jgriffithwinston-d: no16:12
DuncanT'No' I believe is the right answer there16:12
jgriffithwinston-d: it would be deprecated, just there for compat issues16:12
creihtyeah I don't think new features should be added16:12
winston-dgood then.16:12
jgriffithKeep in mind this introduces a significant issue for cinder migrations though16:12
creihtbut "critical" bug fixes and security fixes are likely candidates to backport16:12
creihtat least in my opinion16:13
winston-dcreiht, agree16:13
jgriffithSo one of the things that worked in our favor for migrating folsom-nova-vol -->cinder was everything was the *same*16:13
jgriffithThat was part of the logic behind the sync up between the two16:13
jgriffithIf we did the deprecated/leave it in Grizzly and move forward with cinder16:14
DuncanTThat is why I think post-G1 is a good compremise - they aren't carrying cruft for too long and certainly no where near a release, and those who were organised have already migrated16:14
jgriffithmigrating from folsom/nova-vol to grizzly/cinder could be problematic16:14
creihtit already is problematic :)16:14
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jgriffithcreiht: yes, it is... but I suspect it could get significantly worse16:14
creihtoh certainly16:15
rnirmalwell if it's deprecated..  I don't think we need to support a grizzly migration path16:15
jgriffithrnirmal: I wish that were true16:15
jgriffithrnirmal: but I don't think it is16:15
jgriffithperhaps I'm wrong on that16:15
jgriffithBut regardless it doesn't seem like it would be the *right* thing to do16:16
jgriffithand I'd REALLY like to put the issues associated with migrations behind us16:16
creihtyeah you still have to have a migration path16:16
jgriffiththe reality is that if/when bugs came in for it we'd have to deal with them16:16
creihtjgriffith: that's why I said only "critical" bugs16:16
jgriffithSo... it sounds like folks would like to see nova-vol in until G1 at least?16:16
creihtlike attach doesn't work any more16:16
jgriffithcreiht: I have a patch in to fix that :)16:17
* jgriffith hints to folks to check reviews :)16:17
creihtoh I was giving that as just an example :)16:17
creihtdidn't realize it was actually broken16:17
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jgriffithcreiht: I know, but it was a perfect segway :)16:17
jgriffithcreiht: OHHH16:17
jgriffithcreiht: never mind then, nothing to see here16:17
creihtjgriffith: perhaps if you could find someone to volunteer to be the steward of nova-volume?16:17
jgriffithcreiht: It was actually non-cinder related16:17
jgriffithcreiht: interesting idea16:18
jgriffithcreiht: So there would be two sides to it16:18
jgriffith1. finding a volunteer16:18
jgriffith2. getting together with the nova team to agree16:18
creihtjgriffith: because I do agree that it would be a lot on your plate to try to manage both cinder and nova-volume16:18
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hemnaIs the Nova team wanting to nuke it now?16:18
jgriffithIt's not even that so much as it just *sucks* :)16:18
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jgriffithhemna: They've already started16:19
creihtjgriffith: well my thought is that if someone really needs it still, they will want to make sure it still works :)16:19
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jgriffithcreiht: agreed16:19
creihtif nobody stands up, then maybe that means that they can remove it16:19
rnirmalcreiht: true.. whether that needs to happen in the open or just have them manage it internally16:19
jgriffithWondering if we should take a vote?16:19
DuncanTI need to have a wider discussion here to find out how concerned we are... can I get 24 hours or so to do that please?16:20
jgriffithDuncanT: absolutely16:20
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rnirmalsame here16:20
jgriffithSo we can sit on this for the moment and wait for some feedback?16:20
jgriffithThat's cool by me16:20
jgriffithDo what you need to and hit me up with your cases16:20
DuncanTCool, cheers16:21
jgriffithOk... shall we move on?16:21
winston-di can collect some feedback from local cloud vendors16:21
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jgriffithI'm not making any promises by the way16:21
jgriffithJust saying if it's a major issue we can look at fixing it16:21
rnirmaljgriffith: :)16:21
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jgriffithOk.. next topic16:22
jgriffith#topic blueprint updates16:23
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creihtjgriffith: yeah I still need to get those in... :)16:23
creihtfor the api stuff16:23
jgriffithcreiht: :)16:23
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jgriffithI was hoping to have the G1 stuff at minimum all set up by end of week or Monday at latest16:24
DuncanTNo progress from us either16:24
jgriffithDuncanT: creiht Does end of this week seem doable?16:24
creihtjgriffith: yeah I think I can try to focus on that Thurs/Fri16:25
jgriffithI don't think it's the end of the world, but it would just be nice to have a reasonable road-map going sooner rather than later16:25
creihtyeah I agre16:25
kmartinjgriffith, we have entered the FC Channel support blueprint and meeting again tomorrow with the list of interested parties(Broacade, IBM, ...)16:25
hemnastupid question, is G1 the first sprint of Grizzly dev (month from now) ?16:25
DuncanTI'll see what we can do. Seems like a reasonable aim16:25
creihtgotta run, sorry... will check the backlog later16:25
jgriffithhemna: yes16:25
jgriffithcreiht: No worries... catch ya later16:25
jgriffithgrizzly release schedule:
hemnathank you16:26
jgriffithOk, so just wanted to throw that out as a reminder.  If you have blueprints you know you're going to want try to get them in and we should try and get them targetted by Monday16:27
rnirmaljgriffith: how are we prioritizing items for G1 ?16:27
DuncanTEnd of the week for blueprints looks far more reasonable with that on my screen :-)16:27
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rnirmaljust based on if someone is going to get it done by g116:27
jgriffithDuncanT: :)16:27
jgriffithrnirmal: So far it's been completely subjective... I look at the BP and mark it16:28
rnirmalah ok16:28
jgriffithrnirmal: Right now that's fine16:28
jgriffithrnirmal: If folks start getting stuff posted that will change16:28
jgriffithhemna: I have a meeting this afternoon to talk about your FC blueprint16:29
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jgriffithhemna: That's going to need some work/detail added16:29
rnirmalcool... would be better to get a clearer picture of what's being worked on looking at the blueprints16:29
hemnathe 3Par driver blueprint should be moved to G216:29
jgriffithrnirmal: agreed16:29
jgriffithhemna: ok16:29
hemnaIt's basically done, but there are external deps I'm still working on ironing out.16:30
jgriffithanybody else have bp's they're active on that they'd like to see targetted to a specific release?16:30
DuncanTWill let you know by the end of the week16:31
jgriffithhemna: I've updated the BP and assigned you.  Make sure you keep things updated16:31
kmartinjgriffith: we can talk about schedule for the FC this afternoon thinking G2 or G316:31
hemnathanks, will do16:31
jgriffithDuncanT: thanks16:31
hemnaI'll add more details to the BP16:31
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jgriffithkmartin: Sure16:31
jgriffithspeaking of BP's... no bswartz?16:31
jgriffithanybody else from NetApp around?16:32
winston-di'd like to see if vol-type-scheduler can make it in G1. and volume RPC API in G1 too.16:32
jgriffithwinston-d: Yes!  I agree on both16:32
jgriffithwinston-d: Just need to get the reviews in16:32
winston-djgriffith, :)16:32
jgriffithOk, so we don't need to talk NFS today?16:32
jgriffithOr do folks have some input on it?16:33
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jgriffithI still haven't seen anything on the ML either16:33
hemnaNFS part of cinder???16:33
jgriffithhemna: Yes, that's the proposal16:33
jgriffithalright, I'm going to move off of that subject :)16:34
jgriffithI didn't get the volume-type wiki done but should have it in the next day or two16:34
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arosen.hiub #openstack-ci16:34
jgriffithI'll let folks know when it's up16:34
jgriffithOne other thing I wanted to ask....16:34
hemnaok thanks, I'm interested in that16:34
jgriffithjdurgin: or thingee or anybody that's worked on the write_image to volume code16:35
jgriffithI've worked with a couple of folks trying to get this working and there was a lot of confusion16:35
jgriffithI'm wondering if it would be possible for somebody that has gotten it to work to write up a short wiki on the steps on how to do it16:36
* jgriffith hears crickets chirping...16:36
DuncanTI think we've probably somebody who can make some input on that, sure16:36
jgriffithDuncanT: that would be great, anything would be useful16:37
DuncanTI think we've had to add patches to cope with QCOW images too, which we should push out some time soon16:37
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thingeesorry write_image? clone image or copy image to volume?16:37
jgriffithDuncanT: ahhh.. that may be why it wouldn't work for me16:37
jgriffiththingee: my bad.. .copy image to volume16:37
jgriffiththingee: and how to boot it16:38
DuncanTjgriffith: Yeah, with the default code you need a 'raw' image16:38
jgriffithDuncanT: Well that's why mine kept bombing out most likely16:38
DuncanTGot some instructions for converting a standard qcow image to raw somewhere, will send them on16:38
jgriffithOk, if we could get a wiki on this it would be immensely helpful for folks16:38
thingeejgriffith: ok16:38
thingeemarking it16:39
jgriffithI propose adding a section here:
jgriffithMabye a Features/How-To section16:39
jgriffithThen we can port them to at some point16:40
thingeesounds good16:40
winston-dgood point, definitely helpful for docs.16:40
jgriffithyeah, we really need to fix that problem at some poing :)16:41
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jgriffith#topic bug management16:41
*** openstack changes topic to "bug management"16:41
jgriffithJust a reminder, especially for folks that want to get involved but aren't sure how/where16:41
jgriffithcheck out the bugs list and grab one :)16:42
jgriffithMost of the valid ones are assigned/in-progress so that's good16:42
jgriffithLet's just make sure we don't get behind the curve16:42
jgriffithrnirmal: I'm waiting on a couple for the driver layout refactor16:43
jgriffithrnirmal: Not sure if you saw my comments on that last patch or not16:43
rnirmaljgriffith: yeah did see that16:43
jgriffitheverybody else:
jgriffithrnirmal: Does my proposal suck?16:44
rnirmalI'll update that today... so good with cinder/volume/driver/*16:44
jgriffithrnirmal: cool!16:44
rnirmalyeah that just breaks backward compatibility in config for the san drivers16:44
rnirmalactually for all the other ones too16:44
jgriffithrnirmal: Unless we go volume/driver/san right?16:44
rnirmalif that's ok16:44
rnirmalexcept for the ones in already16:44
jgriffithHmmm ?16:44
rnirmaljgriffith: talking about moving all the other drivers under cinder/volume/driver/ too right?16:45
rnirmalthis leads to something jdurgin mentioned glance was doing16:45
jgriffithrnirmal: yes16:45
rnirmalnot depending on the python modules structure to configure the drivers16:46
jgriffithrnirmal: they all inherrit from the base VolumeDriver don't they?16:46
rnirmaljgriffith: yes16:46
jgriffithSo I was thinking this layout would work by replacing with and  __init__ in volume/driver/16:46
jgriffithbut maybe I'm wrong16:46
jgriffithAlso interested in what you and jdurgin talked about16:47
rnirmaljgriffith: yes it works for the ones already in driver.py16:47
jgriffithahh.. ok, just the ones that aren't there.  Hmm16:47
jgriffithWell, IMO it's important enough to require a change at some point16:47
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rnirmaltake for example solidfire... currently it is volume_driver=cinder.volume.solidfire.SolidFire16:47
rnirmalit will become volume_driver=cinder.volume.driver.solidfire.SolidFire16:48
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jgriffithYeah, and I have NO issue with that changing.  Unless the Glance model is something we could adopt16:48
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rnirmalyeah that's what I was thinking16:48
jgriffithrnirmal: alright, I'll stop bugging you and let you sort it out :)16:49
winston-di guess that's the pain we have to endure sooner or later?16:49
rnirmalif we are changing it.. might as well move to a better model than module names16:49
jgriffithrnirmal: +116:49
* jgriffith gets out of the way16:49
rnirmalwinston-d: yes.16:49
jgriffithwinston-d: Yup, so we should do it *right* when we do it for sure16:50
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winston-dtotally agree.16:50
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jgriffithalright, I have a hard stop coming up here so I'm going to move to the next topic16:50
jgriffith#topic status updates16:50
*** openstack changes topic to "status updates"16:50
jgriffithrnirmal: yes, docs :)16:51
rnirmaljgriffith: I suppose that's a status update :P16:51
jgriffithsadly the status is we haven't really made any progress there and we need to16:51
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jgriffithany volunteers?16:52
jgriffithchirp, chirp, chirp....16:52
jgriffithI'll make it easy, even if you just want to write up a short google doc on your features etc16:53
jgriffithI'll put it into the official docs repo16:53
winston-di'll do that for scheduler16:53
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jgriffithwinston-d FTW!!!!!16:53
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winston-dvolume types, extra specs16:54
DuncanTI have already foolishly volenteered to do a howto for BfV16:54
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jgriffithwinston-d: I'll get the volume_types/extra-specs via the wiki I promised last week16:54
jgriffithwinston-d: You're plate is getting full I noticed :)16:54
jgriffithDuncanT: Yes, you're now officially on the hook :)16:54
hemnaWhat is left to doc?16:55
* jgriffith is happier now16:55
jgriffithhemna: EVERYTHING16:55
jgriffithhemna: If we can get the items we mentioned here though it will go a long way16:55
rnirmaljgriffith: should this be coordinated with annegentle to get an official cinder doc16:55
jgriffithhemna: One other thing would be install/config16:55
winston-dso do we have a doc structure, like how many chapters, and what are they?16:55
rnirmalwinston-d: that's what I was getting at16:56
jgriffithrnirmal: yes, but I'd like to just get something rough and then get her help with making it official16:56
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jgriffithshe's already been very helpful and offered to work with us multiple times16:56
jgriffithI just haven't had any content to provide :(16:56
hemnaI'd volunteer, but I haven't been plugged in long enough yet16:56
* hemna is still getting up to speed16:56
rnirmaljgriffith: understood cool.16:56
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CaptTofuGreetings all!16:56
jgriffithSo everybody take a look at docs.openstack.org16:57
jgriffithThat will give you an idea of what we *should* have, versus what we do have16:57
CaptTofuspecific link on that site?16:57
jgriffithThe Developer docs are in the cinder source... cinder/doc16:58
jgriffithCaptTofu: That is the link:
KiallCaptTofu, the cinder meeting is still going on16:58
winston-di can provide some installation docs based on Folsom.16:58
CaptTofuoh, so very sorry.16:58
jgriffithwinston-d: great, the biggest thing folks miss right now is /etc/tgt/conf.d/16:59
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jgriffithwinston-d: and set_path was broken in ubuntu packaging16:59
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jgriffithand on that note....16:59
jgriffithwe should give up the room16:59
jgriffithThanks everybody!16:59
jgriffith#endmeeting cinder16:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"16:59
openstackMeeting ended Wed Oct 31 16:59:56 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:59
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openstackMinutes (text):
winston-dthx, john.17:00
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KiallRyan_Lane, around?17:00
markmcclainwe ready to start DNaaS?17:01
jcmartinhey everybody17:01
KiallGreat :) I presume you'll chair as you organized?17:01
Ryan_Lanesure. I need to figure out how the bot works17:01
openstackRyan_Lane: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.17:01
mordredRyan_Lane: say "#startmeeting"17:01
markmcclaintype #startmeeting DNSaas17:01
Ryan_Laneirc:// DNSaas17:01
Ryan_Lanefucking adium17:02
Ryan_Lane#startmeeting DNSaaS17:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Oct 31 17:02:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is Ryan_Lane. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'dnsaas'17:02
jcmartinwill that be in the log ;-)17:02
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CaptTofugreeting all (attempt #2)17:03
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Ryan_Lanelet me find the etherpad17:03
Ryan_Laneanyone have a link handy?17:03
jcmartinI update with links17:05
Ryan_Lanethat was for agenda17:05
Ryan_Lanewell, let's get started then17:05
Ryan_Lane#topic agreement/recap of the initial feature set17:06
*** openstack changes topic to "agreement/recap of the initial feature set"17:06
Ryan_Lanehas everyone had a chance to go over the linked information?17:06
KiallI have17:06
jcmartinI added this one: Are we still agreeing on supporting only notification based A/PTR creation ?17:06
jcmartinfor fixed IP and floating IP ?17:06
zykes-anyone from GD here ?17:07
Ryan_Lanehm. seems not. that's going to be a problem.17:07
Ryan_Laneah. good17:07
rlzI'm from GD17:07
zykes-rlz: ok :)17:07
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Kialljcmartin, that depends on the initial scope, internal DNS/internal+external DNS/external DNS17:07
Ryan_Laneeven the nova DNS driver has support for managing zones17:08
nsavinI'm from GD17:08
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KiallFYI: I wasn't at the summit - and could barely hear a thing on WebEx17:08
KiallSo - It's possible I'm in the dark around a few decisions17:08
jcmartinthat's why i propose we recap17:09
CaptTofuHi everyone, please to introduce you to Kiall, the fellow I was IRCing with17:09
Ryan_Lanewell, let's discuss the initial feature set that we should be targeting17:09
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jcmartintenant private zone with A record for UUID and instance name ?17:10
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jcmartinpublic zone with floating ip A record (or CNAME) ?17:11
Ryan_LaneI think those are definitely needed for initial feature set17:11
nsavinPTR records ?17:11
Ryan_LaneI think zone creation is also likely needed17:11
jcmartinPTR too17:11
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CaptTofuzone creation, A, CNAME, MX, ...17:11
Ryan_LanePTR records should also be supported, if the backend needs them (some powerdns ldap backends don't)17:11
jcmartinRyan_Lane: managed by tenant ?17:11
KiallI would be looking for public zones with arbitrary records, in additional to generated A/PTR's for fixed and floating Ips17:12
jcmartinKiall: should be second phase in my opinion17:12
rlzIs it good idea to generate names for floating IP automatically?17:12
Kialljcmartin, any reasoning for that?17:13
jcmartinShould we postpone floating IP for now ?17:13
Ryan_LaneKiall: one reason is then backends need to have some way of saying "I can't add records like that"17:13
KiallDoes arbitrary zone and record creation not provide the core of what's needed to handle automated record creation and deletion?17:13
jcmartinKiall: would require REST service. Just phasing17:14
Ryan_Lanejcmartin: I think floating IP is very much needed for initial feature set17:14
Kialljcmartin, right, but both nova-dns and Moniker have REST interfaces already17:14
jcmartinI'm fine if there is time to implement everything, but it seems tight ...17:15
zykes-for floating IP's is really easy I think, just grab the last bits of the uuid and make a record ?17:15
rlzAs I remember we were going to merge implementations first?17:15
Ryan_Lanethat's another topic, though17:15
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jcmartinsince there is no parity, between implementations, we need to work on feature set first17:16
Kiallrlz, you're Dmitry, yes? One of the nova-dns authors?17:16
rlzWhy only last bits of the uuid?17:16
rlzYes, I'm Dmitry17:17
zykes-rlz: cause anymore isn't needed or ?17:17
jcmartinCan we recap quickly on what is not controversial: A & PTR record for Fixed IP based on notification ?17:17
Ryan_Lanethat's not controversial.17:18
andrewbogottrlz:  Let's set aside implementation for now, and call that feature "Automatic record creation upon floating_ip assignment."  Presumably the associated name will be something arbitrary and unique.17:18
Ryan_LaneI don't think floating IPs are either17:18
jcmartinin a tenant private zone, with tenant id as a name ?17:18
Ryan_Laneinstance_name_template <--17:18
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Ryan_Laneit should likely use that17:18
Ryan_Laneanyway, that's an implementation detail17:18
Kialljcmartin, That's what I was thinking for auto fixed+floading IP records17:18
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jcmartincan we record this with the meetbot thingy ? Ryan ?17:19
KiallRyan_Lane, agreed - lets not dig down into implementation detail just yet17:19
CaptTofuI think meetbot is already running.17:19
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Ryan_Laneshould this be under #action?17:20
Kiall action is a "todo"17:20
andrewbogott(sorry, maybe adding etherpad to the mix is one too many channels)17:20
Ryan_Lane#agreed A/PTR for fixed IP networks should be in initial feature set17:21
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jcmartinZone name = tenant id ?17:21
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Ryan_Laneactually, I'm a little confused by that17:21
Ryan_Laneisn't that something that would go into quantum?17:22
jcmartinthat's what nova-dns does today i think17:22
rlzYes nova-dns behave in this way17:22
Ryan_Laneso, the dns service itself doesn't need to handle that17:22
jcmartindns service has to create the zone though17:22
rlzAs I remember quantum do not want to know about DNS anything. Just send notifications about addresses.17:23
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Kiallrlz, I agree with that - notifications are sent, the DNS service can act on them17:23
rlzZone can be configured only in DNS service17:23
jcmartinyes, first feature is autopilot based on notification. No tenant involvement17:23
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jcmartinwhat's the status on zone naming then ?17:24
Ryan_Lanezone naming?17:24
jcmartinzone name = tenant id17:24
nsavinin quantum instance can have several associated IPs. Which one to use in DNS for A record ?17:24
jcmartinall of them ?17:25
markmcclainI think it depends on the network type17:25
Kialljcmartin, Personally, that makes sense to me. But - I think that's an implementation detail.17:25
Kiall(Which can be decided later)17:25
jcmartinKiall: I'm fine postponing. let's move on17:25
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rlzKiall, what is implementation detail?17:25
Ryan_Laneok. floating IPs?17:25
jcmartinFloating IP yes17:26
Ryan_Lanefor floating IPs we likely need the ability to create and associate zones with tenants17:26
andrewbogottn.b. can we try to say 'domain' rather than 'zone'?  'zone' has a meaning within Nova so is ambiguous.17:26
Kiallrlz, the decision to use incrementing integer IDs or UUIDs for database recrods would be an implementation detail (most of the time)17:26
Ryan_Lanesorry, yes17:26
jcmartindomain too in libvirt17:27
Ryan_Laneugh. domains are in keystone too17:27
Ryan_Lanelet's use DNS zone17:27
andrewbogottyep, ok.17:27
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rlzSame for fixed IPs - we need ability to create zones and associate them with tenant17:27
dolphm(sorry! love, -keystone)17:27
andrewbogottSo right now we're talking about automatic entry creation for floating IPs right?17:28
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jcmartinrlz: who does that, tenant ?17:28
Kiallandrewbogott, yes17:28
zykes-rlz: shouldn't the "Tenant" maybe be allowed to "set" their local zone themselves ?17:28
zykes-or their zones17:28
andrewbogottSo I think the question of dns zones: tenants is the same for both.17:28
Ryan_Lanerlz: I mean via the REST api17:28
Kiallzykes-, one issue with that is overlaps17:28
zykes-Kiall: overlaps how ?17:28
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nsavinin nova-dns zone created for tenant in nova-dns service lazy way.17:28
Ryan_Laneoh. automatic entry creation?17:28
Ryan_Lanesorry, I was thinking end-user entry creation17:29
rlzSame for me: I want to API to create and set zone to use for fixed and floating API separatly17:29
andrewbogottSo the simple version is to use a template and create the dns zone the first time it is needed.17:29
Kiallzykes-, two tenants choosing the same DNS zone name.17:29
andrewbogottThe complicated version is to add REST api to explicitly associate specific tenants with specific Zones.17:29
Ryan_Lanemanaging floating IPs creation and fixed IP creation is basically the same thing17:29
Kiallandrewbogott, yes - while that would be nice. I think that's probably more complicated than it seems at first glance.17:30
Ryan_Laneif we are using notifications for fixed, we could use them for floating, too17:30
jcmartinI suppose that the top level DNS zone will be provider owned, right ?17:30
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Kialljcmartin, Yes - I would say so17:30
jcmartinnotification for floating ip, yes. But what is used as the label/name ?17:30
Ryan_Laneif we're talking about auto-creation, yes17:30
andrewbogottYes, we will have a 'phase one' feature set that's based entirely on notifications and templates.  Then phase two will include REST that allows customization of a ton of things.17:30
* andrewbogott suggests17:30
Ryan_Lanejcmartin: well, many providers use the IP in the name17:30
Ryan_LaneI think basing it on a template is best, though17:31
Kiallalso - nothing stopping you from registering lots of A records..17:31
Ryan_Lanebut that's implementation17:31
andrewbogottjcmartin: Can be a template that has access to one of many instance descriptors from the notification.17:31
andrewbogottjcmartin:  e.g. uuid, ip, display name, etc.17:31,, etc17:31
jcmartintemplate is fine.17:32
Ryan_Laneso, agreed that auto-creation of floating dns should also be in initial implementation?17:32
jcmartinhowever, you might be constrained by what is in the notification17:32
Kialljcmartin, if needs be, we can query the nova/quantum APIs for more info17:33
Kiall(Or get the info added to the notification)17:33
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Ryan_Lane#agreed auto-creation of floating dns should also be in initial implementation17:33
markmcclainIf there are items missing from the Quantum notifications we should generate bugs17:34
markmcclainmost notifications include all of the info that Qunatum has on hand17:34
Ryan_Laneany other features we should target for initial feature set?17:34
jcmartinso to recap, first phase is: based on notification, we will create A & PTR record for fixed and floating ip. Zone will be created based on template driven schema17:34
andrewbogottCan we also clarify what an automatic record will look like?  Are we strictly talking about a records, or is this configurable somehow?17:34
KiallRyan_Lane, I would argue for arbitrary zones and records. for 2 reasons:17:34
rlzrest API IMHO should be in the first implementation17:34
andrewbogottOh, ok, there it is :)17:34
Kiall1) Moniker already has this implemented ;)17:34
Kiall2) Its *almost* free after being able to create/delete zones and add remove/records from the notifications17:35
Ryan_LaneI agree17:35
andrewbogottImplementing the REST is easy, agreeing on the feature set will be the hard part.17:35
Ryan_Laneanyone disagree with rest API for managing zones and arbitrary records?17:36
jcmartinOk with me17:36
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nsavinalready in nova-dns17:36
andrewbogott…or maybe not!17:36
Ryan_Lane#agreed rest API for managing zones and arbitrary records will be in initial feature set17:36
Ryan_Laneok. I think that's more than enough features ;)17:36
Ryan_Lanenext topic?17:37
Ryan_Lane#topic merging of projects17:37
*** openstack changes topic to "merging of projects"17:37
jcmartinthere is nothing left in term of features anyway ;-)17:37
Ryan_Lanejcmartin: that's not true :)17:37
zykes- n3917:37
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Ryan_LaneRR DNS, geodns, etc17:37
KiallDNSSEC ;)17:37
KiallLoads more to do.17:37
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CaptTofuDNSSEC :)17:37
jcmartinI tried to do a comparison :
CaptTofuwhat about things like multicast?17:38
KiallCaptTofu, you mean mDSN?17:38
Ryan_LaneCaptTofu: I think we have enough features for initial project17:38
CaptTofuJust thinking of it.17:39
Kialljcmartin, for the most part that doc was accurate for Moniker.17:39
jcmartingoing back to merge : nova-dns seems a superset, but architecture is less aligned with end goal17:39
Ryan_Laneso, we have two projects that we could base the project on. both are fairly mature. we need to decide which one we'll use and how we'll merge17:39
Ryan_Lanelet's start this the easy way17:40
KiallProbably worth mentioning by bias ;)17:40
Kiallmy bias*17:40
Ryan_Laneis one project willing to merge themselves into the other? :)17:40
CaptTofuwhat does merge mean in this case?17:41
andrewbogottWhich of the two stand-alone implementations are the most OpenStack like?  e.g. does either use common classes?  The sqlalchemy, wsgi, etc?17:41
KiallCaptTofu, yea.17:41
CaptTofuthe latter does yes17:41
jcmartinI captured that in the doc17:41
CaptTofumoniker does, I mean17:41
KiallFor me - Merging means people, rather than code. Both are very different from a code POV17:41
jcmartinMoniker is the most openstack compliant17:41
jcmartin(and by the way, I like the codename too)17:41
Kiallandrewbogott, Moniker is almost exclusively openstack-common code17:41
Kialljcmartin, thanks ;)17:42
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jcmartinnova-dns is more of an extension of nova17:42
Ryan_Lanemoniker is based on rackspace api right?17:42
CaptTofuif you skeletonized it, it'd make a good study on an openstack project17:42
Ryan_Laneanyone from rackspace here?17:42
KiallRyan_Lane, It started that way. The API is not compatible anymore.17:42
CaptTofudamn, I should let Kiall answer17:42
KiallThe API is built to be switchable17:43
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jrodomRyan_Lane:  im from rackspace, sorry been lurking :)17:43
Kiallimplementing RS or R53's API would be trivial17:43
jcmartinone thing through me out in moniker: what is schema in the api ?17:43
Ryan_Lanewell, it may not be a problem to be incompatible17:43
Kialljcmartin, JSON Schemas - Used to define for format and rules for the API's JSON17:43
Ryan_Laneif rackspace is willing to work with us and base their api on ours for their next version17:43
jrodomRyan_Lane: we're definintely interested in collaborating on this17:44
KiallRyan_Lane, I open to re-doing the API17:44
KiallI personally prefer my way ;) But am not overly attached.17:44
jcmartinproposal : start with moniker and merge in code from nova-dns17:44
jrodomthis is just getting on my radar and i'd love to get my team more involved.  was just trying to ensure we were trying to solve the same problem, which it seems like we are.17:44
andrewbogottjcmartin:  I think that's a good approach.  Does moniker already have a well-defined back-end API for different DNS implementations?17:45
jcmartinback end need work IMHO17:45
Kiallandrewbogott, it's based on RPC agents - different actions trigger an RPC event for the DNS server agents to pick up17:45
jcmartinneed more plugin based model17:45
Kiallas jcmartin says - the current backend implementation is far from stable17:46
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jcmartinrpc agen can be one implementation of the driver for file based DNS17:46
KiallI actually have a PowerDNS agent implementation - but it's based on my clients code.17:46
KiallSo - for legal reasons - I simply can't release it17:46
jcmartinback to decision : merge which way ?17:46
andrewbogottThere's a third candidate besides moniker and nova-dns, right?17:47
Ryan_LaneI'd say let's use moniker and merge nova-dns17:47
KiallMy bias should be obvious merge into Moniker, but I really want to hear what others this is best!17:47
Ryan_Laneis there any objection? should we take a vote?17:47
zykes-+1 on Kiall17:47
jcmartinlet use the bot thinghy17:47
CaptTofu+1 on Moniker17:47
Kiallpsst - Ryan_Lane  #startvote17:47
Kiallpsst - Ryan_Lane  #startvote <vote subject> I think17:48
Ryan_Lane#startvote Use moniker and merge other projects in17:48
andrewbogottUm… wait, I don't understand what the alternatives are yet.  I think we need to be clear on whose code we are discarding so that we have buy-in from the owners of that code.17:48
andrewbogottSo, for example -- nova-dns is mine, you have my buy-in :)17:48
Kiallandrewbogott, there are 2 nova-dns projects ;)17:48
Ryan_Lanethere's basically 317:48
KiallThe one built into nova17:48
andrewbogottOh!  I see.17:48
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Ryan_Laneours, grid-dynamics and moniker17:49
andrewbogottSo when we've been saying 'nova-dns' we were talking about griddynamics.17:49
Ryan_Lane#vote yes17:49
andrewbogottIn that case we're good.17:49
jcmartin#vote yes17:49
andrewbogott#vote yes17:49
Kiall#vote yes17:49
CaptTofu#vote yes17:49
markmcclain#vote yes17:49
jcmartingd guys ?17:49
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KiallYea - I really do want to hear from the GD crowd17:50
rlzWe can agree but we need all functionally from current nova-dns17:50
Ryan_Lanerlz: does the initial feature set proposed match it?17:50
rlzNot sure17:51
Ryan_Laneso, this won't mean that your project needs to immediately go away17:51
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Ryan_Laneit's just that we're picking a specific project that we'll want to push into incubation17:52
rlzYes. We will stay on our project and wait17:52
Kiallrlz, can you produce a list of all current nova-dns features over the next few days? I would love to have that info readily available17:52
nsavinby the way, does moniker now listen for notifications and add/remove records in dns for instances ?17:52
Ryan_Laneand that over time, when moniker is ready for you, you can kill your other project17:52
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Ryan_Lanerlz: but it means that you'll need to start putting some of your code into moniker17:52
jcmartinnsavin : it does not, that's why your code is required17:52
Kiallnsavin, not yet. I actually started work on that a about an hour ago though17:52
KiallBut - Its far from working17:52
jcmartinmerge means 1+117:52
KiallI would love to get some code handed to me instead :)17:53
nsavinfor me nova-dns(our representation) looks like working thing.17:53
Ryan_Lanerlz: basically it means you'll be maintaining code in two places for a while17:53
nsavinand moniker - as skeleton of something distributed and not fully understandable for me17:53
jcmartinnsavin: your code is querying nova db : bad17:53
nsavinyeah. but better than do nothing ;)17:53
jcmartinthrough. but if we merge, I would think we can do it right17:54
Kiallnsavin, You're right - moniker currently does not listen to notifications, but does provide much of the other groundwork for actually actioning those notifications.17:54
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jcmartincan we close on the vote ?17:54
Ryan_Laneit would be good to get a yes or no from the gd people :)17:55
Ryan_Laneor abstain17:55
KiallRyan_Lane, whenever your ready.. it's #endvote Found the meetbot docs:
nsavin#vote no - moniker for me now just an "thing which possibly will work later"17:55
rlzAlso I want to review API to make decision17:55
Ryan_Laneok. ending vote in 30 seconds17:56
Kiallrlz, by API do you mean REST API?17:56
rlzIs current API described?17:56
rlzYes, REST API17:56
jcmartinrlz:nsavin : you can start by reviewing and commenting on
KiallIt's described by the JSON schemas here:
Kiall(and )17:57
nsavinjsmartin: can'17:57
KiallBut - It's not documented yet.17:57
nsavinjcmartin: can't edit this document17:57
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Kialljcmartin, can you port that doc to the wiki?17:58
Ryan_Laneso, I'm not very sure what decision that vote actually makes.17:58
Ryan_Laneare we going forward with moniker as a project that we'll eventually push into incubation?17:58
KiallRyan_Lane, The vote was "<Ryan_Lane> #startvote Use moniker and merge other projects in"17:59
jcmartini'll mov the doc to the wiki if it's easier17:59
Ryan_Laneor do we need another meeting on this topic?17:59
KiallRough count of 6 or so yes and 1 no17:59
* Ryan_Lane nods17:59
Ryan_Laneno buy in from one of the three merging projects, though17:59
rlzJSON schemas is not an API description. It is just some JSON document description. It is not clear how to use this JSON documents, and way can be done through API18:00
Kiallrlz, agreed. Real documentation is certainly needed18:00
Ryan_Laneok. we're out of time18:00
nsavinso can I ask that is now in and working in moniker project ?18:00
Ryan_Lanewe'll need to continue this off channel18:01
CaptTofunsavin: you mean who is working on it?18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:01
openstackMeeting ended Wed Oct 31 18:01:34 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:01
openstackMinutes (text):
Kiallhow about #openstack-dns ?18:01
Ryan_Lanesounds good18:01
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