Thursday, 2012-11-01

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enikanorovsalv-orlando: here?14:36
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salv-orlandowas on #openstack-dev14:40
salv-orlandoI am here now!14:40
salv-orlandoenikanorov: here!14:42
enikanorovso a couple of questions about service insertion14:43
enikanorovwe're mostly interested in a part about associating service with a router14:43
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enikanorovwhy do we need that and when, at which point that will be used?14:44
salv-orlandoI was about to reply to the mailing list too - so to keep everyone in the loop14:44
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salv-orlandoFirst - it has nothing to do with any physical router in the nw infrastructure14:45
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salv-orlandoit's just a "logical" concept - it's not like you then to have to find a router and plug your lb device on top of that of course :)14:45
salv-orlandobut let me explain better (at least let me try)14:46
salv-orlandoThe "Floating" use case is fairly easy. A tenant creates a load balancer using the API (eg. POST /vips) and then this results in the creation of a LB configuration on some device in the data center14:47
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salv-orlandoThe appliances are managed by the admin, as you say, and the selection of a particular device is led by two factors:14:47
salv-orlando1) the provider of the service - which could be a service_type field, an URI prefix, or the other options you listed14:48
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salv-orlando2) The capabilities specified to the user (and in that case it is up to the LBaaS service finding the right device)14:49
enikanorovok, you're talking about selecting the device by a tenant?14:49
enikanorovwe usually called it a scheduling, so user is not in charge of selecting the device14:49
salv-orlandoI don't think the tenant explicitly selects a device - but provides information that will cause the LBaaS to select the right driver14:49
salv-orlandoenikanorov: I used capabilities because I heard people using this term in the call14:50
salv-orlandobut we're definitely referring to the same thing14:50
enikanorovanyway, we understand it the same way14:50
salv-orlandonow… why the router?14:50
enikanorovyes, why :)14:50
salv-orlandoIf you look at Cloudstack for instance, or AWS, the only way for inserting a load balancer is the one we just described14:51
salv-orlandoHowever, there are some cases in which you want to provide load balancing through the same interface which acts as your external gateway (see the slides and wiki page by John Gruber)14:52
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enikanorovyes, I've seen that page14:52
salv-orlandothis is apparently is a fairly common use cases and it also maps quite well to appliances which are able to provide multiple services.14:52
salv-orlandoFor instance, think about a linux VM loaded with networking service… iptables for firewall, and haproxy for LB, for instance14:53
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salv-orlandoThat is one case in which a logical router, augmented with advanced services, will map to such appliances14:54
salv-orlandoYou can achieve the same thing with an F5 or NetScaler box actually14:54
salv-orlandoor for instance, by orchestrating a F5 Big IP and a Juniper SRX (the latter acting as a firewall with the former having the SRX as an uplink)14:54
enikanorovso you're saying:14:55
enikanorovThe Router resource should therefore be extended with the following attribute:14:55
enikanorov  services:service_type_id # which refers to service_type object14:55
salv-orlandoYeah - using this kind of spec you'll specify which is the provider of the services for your router.14:55
salv-orlandoAnd this could map to one of the example above.14:56
enikanorovfirst of all, each logical router will know which service it provides or it know which device is used to provide a service?14:56
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enikanorovprobably this is the main point i don't understand.14:56
salv-orlandoby "device" do you mean a concrete realisation of a device (such as a box) or the driver for communication with those devices14:56
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enikanorovconcrete realisation. I mean, we're saying:14:57
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enikanorovthis logical router is itself LB, or this logical router is connected to that LBappliance14:57
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enikanorovthat way i would understand that, because later quantum could use this info to connect LB to tenant network14:58
enikanorovbut it seems that you meant something else14:58
nijabaceilometer meeting about to start here...14:59
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salv-orlandonijaba: my apologies14:59
salv-orlandofallback to #openstack-dev15:00
enikanorovsalv-orlando: let's move to private15:00
enikanorovah, ok15:00
salv-orlandook pvt is fine15:00
nijabasalv-orlando: np15:00
salv-orlandoI thought Ilya was here as well15:00
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nijaba#startmeeting Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#meetingtopic Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#chair nijaba15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov  1 15:00:19 2012 UTC.  The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:00
openstackCurrent chairs: nijaba15:00
nijabaHello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting?15:00
* dhellmann made it on time!15:00
nijaba#topic actions from previous meeting15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
krtaylorkrtaylor, o/15:01
nijaba#topic scrubbing actions from meeting notes15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "scrubbing actions from meeting notes (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
nijabadhellmann: I think you were done with that right?15:02
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dhellmannI'm hunting for the right etherpad link...15:02
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nijabasame for you eglynn?15:02
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eglynnnijaba yep, I put a first cut on grizzly-ceilometer-actions15:02
nijabawhat about you jd?15:02
nijabajd__: ^^15:03
eglynn(I'll polish some more later on today ...)15:03
nijabaand I think I am done done (my part was easy)...15:03
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nijabathanks, so this is complete !15:04
nijaba#topic jd to propose an implementation for source and wait for our comments15:04
*** openstack changes topic to "jd to propose an implementation for source and wait for our comments (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:04
nijabajd__: comments?15:04
jd__this has been implemented15:04
nijabaand approved, right?15:05
jd__I can find the commit id, a minute15:05
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jd__for the record :)15:05
nijabaperfect. thanks a lot15:05
nijaba#topic nijaba to update project objective on relevant pages15:05
*** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to update project objective on relevant pages (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:05
nijabaI think this was done wherever I could think of.15:06
* jd__ is sorry to not have prepared the link before :)15:06
nijabalet me know if you find some missing pages...15:06
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jd__nijaba: great :)15:06
nijaba#topic Review actions from and agree on priorities15:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Review actions from and agree on priorities (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:07
nijabaso, what do you think we should be prioritizing out of this work?15:07
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dhellmannI've marked a few of the items as done :-)15:08
jd__just see this indeed15:08
eglynnassessing commonality with other OS measurement-related initiatives is a high-priority work item IMO15:09
nijabashould we all have 5 minutes on the etherpad to write our names next to the actions we consider most important?15:09
jd__remove all nova imports is almost complete done I think we should do it for G anyway15:09
jd__not sure it's listed, but the multi-publisher blueprint I scrubed from the etherpad page beyond-metering should be included15:09
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* nijaba is done15:12
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eglynnjd__ does subsume ?15:13
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1073988 in ceilometer "Adapt ceilometer for multiple publication conduits" [Undecided,New]15:13
eglynn(I raised the bug to capture work from
eglynnseems like a dupe ...15:13
dhellmanneglynn: yes, those seem like the same thing15:15
sandywalsh(hey! side note ... I'm nearly done the bp wiki page for architectural commonality)15:15
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nijabaok, that looks good.  So I proposed to sum this back in the wiki page as follow: 3+ votes=high, 1or2 vote=medium, low for rest in terms of priorities?  makes sense?15:18
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jd__nijaba: +115:18
* jd__ have been disconnected, I hope I didn't miss anything15:18
dhellmannare there any interested parties whose input we want but who are not present?15:18
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nijabaif you know of a bug# for each item, please add it to the list.  otherwise we'll have to open one15:19
dhellmannjd__: nope15:19
nijabadhellmann: angus?15:19
eglynnasalkeld would be interested15:19
jd__dhellmann: thanks :)15:19
nijabanot seeing input from jtran either15:19
dhellmanneglynn, nijaba : yes to both15:20
nijabaI am a bit worried of asking other to complete the etherpad on the ml though15:20
nijabawe may get a lot of rogue input15:20
dhellmannnijaba: private email?15:20
eglynnso perhaps we shuld leave the "vote" open for 24 hours?15:20
nijabadhellmann: yes, that sounds better15:20
eglynn(to hit al TZs)15:20
jd__+1 for private mail15:20
nijabaeglynn: +115:20
dhellmannnijaba: it would be interesting to run a surveymonkey survey to the mailing list, too, as long as it's clear we aren't committing to follow the results15:21
dhellmanneglynn: +115:21
nijabadhellmann: I can try to prepare that for next week15:21
dhellmannnijaba: ok15:22
nijaba#action nijaba to send private email to all comitter to come vote on the etherpad in the next 24h15:22
eglynnso I guess there's an implication that a vote for some high priority item comes with some (loose?) commitment to contribute time to it?15:23
nijaba#action nijaba to then update wiki page as follow: 3+ votes=high, 1or2 vote=medium, low for rest in terms of priorities15:23
jd__eglynn: not sure15:23
nijabaeglynn: agreed15:23
dhellmanneglynn: that's a good way to phrase it :-)15:23
nijabaeglynn: but I won't send the collector squad to enforce... ;)15:24
eglynnnijaba: LOL15:24
dhellmannI would like to have some input from "users" too, but only to help rebalance my own priorities15:24
eglynnthat's sensible15:24
* nijaba cares about your kneecaps :P15:24
nijabaI guess I should action the survey too...15:25
* jd__ wonders if that does mean mean nijaba will have to code ;)15:25
dhellmannjd__: "contribute" != "code", right? :-)15:26
nijaba#action nijaba to prepare survey for ml next week15:26
jd__dhellmann: ;)15:26
nijabajd__: it's halloween for reviewers, I would guess15:26
jd__nijaba: lol15:26
nijabanext topic?15:27
nijaba#topic Changing the versioning to adhere to OpenStack standards15:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Changing the versioning to adhere to OpenStack standards (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:27
nijabaSo I had a discussion with ttx15:27
nijabahe would like us to adhere to openstack standard for versioning15:27
jd__I don't see any problem with that15:28
nijabasomething like ceilometer -2013.1~g1~20121025.16635.tar.gz15:28
eglynnseems reasonable15:28
nijabainstead of current 0.2, that looks like a release but is not15:28
nijabaexample job:
nijabaanybody with strong feelings about versioning?15:29
dhellmannno, that seems fine15:30
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anniecfollowing the standard is good15:30
dhellmannis there a guide for decoding that format? some of it makes sense, but some is odd15:30
nijabaanyone caring about it enough to take the action?15:30
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dhellmannI guess I'll take it15:31
dhellmann#action dhellmann update versioning in ceilometer repo to match openstack standards15:31
nijabathanks dhellmann15:31
anniecthanks dhellmann15:31
nijabathat's it on the topics for today15:32
dhellmannI have a couple of items to raise15:32
eglynnso how much leeway do we have during the incubation period?15:32
nijaba#topic open discussion15:32
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:32
eglynnis the idea that we start adopting all standard openstack project practices ASAP or gradually?15:32
nijabaeglynn: ASAP15:32
dhellmanneglynn: we tried to follow most of them from the start15:32
dhellmannis there something else we need to do besides the version numbering and milestones?15:33
eglynnnijaba, dhellmann: cool, makes sense15:33
sandywalshversioning should really be following quickly15:33
nijabaeglynn: apparently, the renaming of git will require a gerrit reboot, so that will have to be planned15:33
sandywalshwe ran into that with novaclient ... made a big difference once we switched15:33
sandywalshthe CI guys were very grateful.15:33
nijabaI had a meeting with ttxt, mordred and jeblair on the subject  this week (they are at UDS)15:33
dhellmannI'll look into it between now and our next meeting15:34
nijabadhellmann: versioning and project name are the last bits, it seems15:34
eglynnso I was wondering about the milestone releases, IIRC last week someone mentioned the idea was to get in train for G-3 ... did I understand that right?15:34
nijabaeglynn: you did15:34
dhellmann"in train"?15:34
nijabaeglynn: but we can join eralier15:34
nijabaearlier, even15:34
eglynnin train = line up with with the other projects15:34
eglynnso maybe earlier would be better15:35
jd__nijaba: so there's a timeline for the switch or what?15:35
dhellmanndo we need to appoint an official release manager?15:35
nijabajd__: wait for an email on the ml announcing a downtine for gerrit15:35
jd__I think the release team handle all project, no?15:35
nijabadhellmann: ttx is the release manager15:35
jd__nijaba: ok!15:35
eglynnyep ttx15:35
dhellmannnijaba: ah, ok15:35
dhellmannI didn't know if we needed someone to coordinate with him, but I guess that's nijaba15:36
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eglynnusually he coordinates with the PTLs AFAIK15:36
dhellmannthat would make sense15:36
nijabayup.  I may ask for some help to go to the release meeting every other week, as I have a personal conflict with it15:36
nijabain fact, is there a volunteer to cover for me for next tue?15:37
jd__what's the time?15:37
eglynn21:00 UTC15:37
eglynnnijaba: I can cover it15:38
nijabaeglynn: thanks a lot!15:38
jd__can do that15:38
jd__ok :)15:38
nijabajd__: feel free to join too15:38
jd__yeah, I'll add it to my agenda :)15:38
dhellmannI'll try to eavesdrop15:38
jd__btw what about eglynn proposal to core?15:39
jd__are we good on that?15:39
dhellmannthat was one of the 3 things I wanted to bring up15:39
dhellmannwe voted on the list, do we need anything more formal than that?15:39
jd__sorry, didn't mean to steal your points :o)15:39
dhellmannor just an action item for nijaba to flip the bit15:39
jd__I think the delay is 5 days without -115:40
nijabadhellmann: I think the later15:40
jd__so we should be almost good anyway15:40
nijabajd__: ah...15:40
jd__I don't think anybody will dare -1 ! :)15:40
eglynnhope not anyway ;)15:40
jd__process is at
nijaba#action nijaba to add eglynn to ceilometer drivers on satureday if all goes well15:40
nijabasaturday, too...15:41
dhellmannI would also like to propose asalkeld for core15:41
nijabadhellmann: same process?  via ml?15:41
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dhellmannah, right, ok15:41
jd__dhellmann: copy/paste the mail I sent for eglynn15:41
nijaba"When a developer feels he has met the criteria and would like to apply for Core Developer status, He/She should send an email to the main OpenStack mailing list requesting to become a Core Developer for a specific sub-project. "15:42
dhellmannjd__: reading my mind15:42
jd__I meant to do it, but prefered to wait for eglynn to be done first :)15:42
nijaba"We will use lazy consensus for the approval vote from the current sub-project core developers. The lazy consensus process shall last five days after the email is sent to the mailing list. During the lazy consensus period the applicant must get approval responses from either 5 active Core Developers or a simple majority of the active Core Developers, whichever is smaller, with no rejection votes. "15:42
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dhellmannok, I'll send a proposal email15:42
nijabadhellmann: thanks15:43
jeblairo/  (sorry, got dragged into another discussion; any CI questions i can answer?)15:43
dhellmannjeblair: we were talking about version numbering before, and your name came up related to that15:43
nijabajeblair: nope, I was just relating the discussion we had about having to restart gerrit15:43
dhellmannsorry, that15:43
nijabajeblair: not for versioning, but for naming15:43
nijabadhellmann: :)15:43
jeblairi think there is another project that wants a name change15:44
dhellmannok, the other thing I wanted to ask for was a review of the api auth fix in
dhellmannthat needs one more +215:44
jeblairopenstack-common -> oslo-incubation or something, so i think we want to batch that.  let's check on the timing for that, and hopefully execute in a couple of weeks.15:44
nijabajeblair: thanks!15:45
nijabadhellmann: will do asap.  Sorry, a bit busy with 3 week on the road.  coming back to normal next week15:46
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nijabaanything else?15:46
dhellmannnijaba: I understand, and thanks15:47
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eglynnone other thing, how do we regenerate in the light of ?15:47
eglynn(zykes- and davidkranz both tripped over the notification_driver mis-direct in the last while ...)15:47
sandywalshas I mentioned, I'm nearly done the bp on common code for StackTach/Ceilometer/etc ... hope to wrap it up today. Really looking forward to feedback on it.15:47
dhellmanneglynn: I need to push those changes to my github repo, which is tied to readthedocs15:47
nijabaeglynn: it is not generated, is just an rst in the source15:47
eglynndhellmann: a-ha, cool15:48
nijabadhellmann: isn't this automatic?15:48
dhellmann#action dhellmann update readthedocs copy of our docs15:48
dhellmannnijaba: it's automatic when I push to my private repo, because I don't have permission to turn on the hook on the shared repo15:48
eglynnsandywalsh looking forward to reading that!15:48
dhellmannsandywalsh: me, too15:48
nijabadhellmann: infra team would certainly have that rigght...15:49
dhellmannnijaba: and now that we're incubated, I can ask them to do things like this :-)15:49
anniecsandywalsh: will make sure y! open stackers too15:49
dhellmannnijaba: maybe we can coordinate with/after the name migration15:49
sandywalshcool ... hope you guys had a chance to look at the stacktack video?15:49
nijabadhellmann: sounds good15:49
dhellmannsandywalsh: not yet, have a link for the logs?15:49
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sandywalshlatest code is up on github15:50
eglynnstep-thru' videos are great for driving adoption, we should consider one for ceilo also15:51
eglynn(one the grizzly features satrt shaping up ...)15:51
nijabaeglynn: great idea.  I guess jd__ and I could work on that together15:51
nijabajd__: up to it?15:52
davidkranzIs the API stable enough to start adding some simple tempest integration tests?15:52
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dhellmanndavidkranz: probably not15:52
nijabaeglynn: hope you don't mind if the video comes with a frnech accent ;)15:52
dhellmanndavidkranz: soon, though, I hope15:53
davidkranzdhellmann: Ok. I think that is an important part of openstack process so just let me know when.15:53
dhellmannnijaba: subtitles?15:53
eglynnall the better, add some Euro-focus ;)15:53
* dhellmann ducks15:53
nijabadhellmann: accessibility rules!15:53
dhellmanndavidkranz: agreed!15:53
nijaba#action jd__ and nijaba to start preparing a video demo of ceilometer15:54
* jd__ laughed at "subtitles?"15:54
* nijaba laughed first, then thought about hearing impaired15:55
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nijabaanything else?15:55
* nijaba starts the 30s count down?15:55
* nijaba starts the 30s count down!!15:55
* dhellmann has a room full of hungry coworkers who want to go to lunch15:55
m4dcoderi have a question about data backend...15:56
* nijaba throws virtual peanuts15:56
nijabam4dcoder: sure.  shoot15:56
m4dcoderfor ceilometer, any direction to push data to NoSQL backend?15:56
nijabam4dcoder: we have one backend implemented: mongo15:56
eglynnother than MongoDB?15:56
nijabam4dcoder: but the abstraction would allow you to do anything else you want...15:57
jd__anyone can come with a new storage engine15:57
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nijabajtran is finishing the SQLAlchemy one15:57
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* nijaba resets the 30s count down15:58
m4dcoderthat answers my question.  thx.  i just started catching up on this project.  so still figuring this out.15:58
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nijabam4dcoder: feel free to join #openstack-metering for other questions you may have15:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"15:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov  1 15:59:23 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:59
openstackMinutes (text):
nijabathanks everyone!15:59
nijabagreat meeting, as always!15:59
jd__thanks! :)15:59
eglynnyep, thanks all ...15:59
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davidkranzAny one here for the QA meeting?17:01
davidkranzjaypipes: Here?17:01
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ravkumar_hphi David17:01
toranduhi david. i'm here17:02
sdague<= here17:02
davidkranzDaryl just sent mail saying he and Sam can't make it.17:02
mtreinishI'm here17:02
davidkranz#startmeeting qa17:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov  1 17:02:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is davidkranz. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:02
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davidkranzI have uploaded a patch to turn on a daily full tempest job.17:03
davidkranzThe failures will be sent to the qa list.17:03
sdaguedavidkranz: very cool17:03
ravkumar_hpdavidkranz: cool. is it automated mail ?17:04
davidkranzravkumar_hp: Yes.17:04
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ravkumar_hpdavidkranz: It runs all tests including negative tests . right?17:04
davidkranzNot sure what is going on with
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1072841 in tempest "test_list_servers_negative failing one test" [High,Confirmed]17:04
davidkranzravkumar_hp: It runs the same tests as checkins to tempest at the moment.17:05
sdaguedavidkranz: that seems like the right place to start, at least we can catch those breaks early.17:05
davidkranzIn the future it will probably run additional tests that are too slow for gating as well, such as fuzz testing, etc.17:05
sdaguejaypipes was around earlier, I'd be curious how that bug is going, and if he needs help on it17:05
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1072841 in tempest "test_list_servers_negative failing one test" [High,Confirmed]17:06
sdaguedavidkranz: is there anything else you need on the full tempest runs in periodic, or do you think it's covered with the patch you sent into ci?17:07
davidkranzsdague: That bug is blocking everything so I'm not sure why it hasn't gotten fixed.17:07
davidkranzsdague: The patch should be all that is needed I think.17:07
jaypipescrap, sorry guys... got lost in wiki  documentation...17:08
davidkranzObviously not much attention is being paid to puppet-lint :)17:08
sdaguedavidkranz: I would up the timeout in that17:09
davidkranzThis was also just reported
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1074039 in tempest "KeyError: "'novanetwork' in XML test" [Undecided,New]17:09
davidkranzsdague: Timeoutin what?17:09
sdaguethe machines these run on are slower than you might imagine, so 90 minutes is probably not enough17:09
sdagueI'll comment on the review17:09
davidkranzsdague: Oh, that timeout. You're right.17:10
davidkranzmnewby: Here?17:10
sdaguejaypipes: so on the test_list_servers bug, how's it going?17:11
sdagueneed help?17:11
davidkranzmnewby: No one responded to Dan W's email about resources quantum tests. Is the stuff you are working on related to that?17:12
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jaypipessdague: well, unfortunately, I haven't been able to get a clean tempest run today and bcwaldon and I are disagreeing about the results of the requests in question. :) I'm running a new devstack/tempest run at the moment and will update the bug when I have more info17:13
mnewbydavidkranz: I think Dan was hoping for more than just my part-time work doing tempest.  I am still working on it, but I've been sidelined ensuring that quantum+ovs works on xen.17:13
mnewbydavidkranz: I think the hope was that Rackspace had resources to bring to bear on the issue.17:14
sdaguejaypipes: ok, well shout if you need help. That seems to be something we should get fixed up one way or another.17:14
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jaypipessdague: will do...17:15
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davidkranzmnewby: OK. Not sure where to go with that. There is evidence that the model of developers doing stuff and then looking for "qa resources" elsewhere may not work in openstack.17:15
sdaguedavidkranz: as additional topics for conversation, dansmith sent out the following to the openstack-dev list about the live upgrade session we did at summit, which has a number of potential QA blueprints. Would be curious on people's feedback -
mnewbydavidkranz: I do intend to get the tempest change that adds a basic quantum test ready for real review this week, though.17:16
davidkranzmnewby: Great. That is a good start.17:16
davidkranzmnewby: Perhaps once that framework is in place it will be easier for folks in the know about quantum to add tests.17:16
sdaguedavidkranz, mnewby: there is also a bunch of quantum support still landing in devstack, so I expect there will end up being a lot of iteration on that front for a bit17:17
mnewbydavidkranz: Hopefully.  And I'm planning on using tempest to validate any quantum changes I make going forward, so it should be maintable.17:17
davidkranzFundamentally, writing a tempest test takes a lot of the same knowledge as writing a unit test.17:18
sdagueoh, right a bunch of that is from mnewby, I need to connect nicks more often :)17:18
davidkranzSo I think the eligible pool for quantum is a lot smaller than other projects.17:18
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mnewbysdague: Definitely.  The devstack changes are immediately useful, but won't test a non-devstack config, so I'm going to make sure tempest can do whatever the devstack exercise scripts do.17:18
davidkranzI am absorbing ceilometer and will contribute tempest tests as soon as Doug says the API is stable.17:19
davidkranzI will reply to Dan Wendlandt.17:19
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davidkranzI also exchanged email with the mirantis folks about getting there tempest stuff into the main branch but have not seen anything yet.17:20
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davidkranzAnything else?17:21
ravkumar_hpdavidkranz: parallelization solution17:21
ravkumar_hpany news from daryl ?17:21
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sdaguedavidkranz: I'm curious about using blueprints to track some of the big items in the grizzly qa cycle17:22
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davidkranzravkumar_hp: Haven't heard anything from him except the message he sent 1/2 hour ago.17:22
sdaguethere were definitely a few captured out of the nova sessions, and the full tempest gate session17:23
davidkranzsdague: We just need to create them.17:23
sdagueshould I just start writing up things and propose them in the tool, or get them on a mailing list, or what? we'll be signing up to do a number of them, but want to make sure the work is visible and coordinated (so not duping anyone)17:24
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davidkranzsdague: How about sending a list of titles to the mailing list, or point to an etherpad first?17:24
sdaguedavidkranz: sure, will do17:24
davidkranzsdague: Thanks. If you are planning on working on one you can just put it up immediately as well.17:25
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sdaguehave we considered getting rid of the qa list in favor of just driving this traffic on the main dev list? It might expose it to more folks, and maybe draw in a few more volunteers17:25
sdagueopinions from anyone on that?17:26
davidkranzsdague: I don't think we should get rid of the qa list but it would be fine to put this on the dev list as far as I can see.17:26
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sdaguedavidkranz: ok, I'll cross post17:26
sdagueI'll try to get a consolidated view of what I saw in various meetings, and try to get that discussion running17:27
davidkranzsdague: Great!17:27
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davidkranzsdague: Just sumitted patch for puppet change.17:29
davidkranzANything else from any one?17:29
sdaguenot i17:29
davidkranz30 seconds and counting...17:29
davidkranzOK, see you all soon.17:30
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:30
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov  1 17:30:29 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:30
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russellboh, meeting!21:02
vishy#startmeeting nova21:02
* Vek was about to say...21:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov  1 21:02:58 2012 UTC.  The chair is vishy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:03
russellbi was triaging bugs ;)21:03
* Vek waves21:03
dansmith<-- present21:03
sdague<- here21:03
comstudi was getting cells reviews up last minute!21:03
cburgess<-- present21:03
vishy#topic Agenda
mtreinishI'm here21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda"21:03
Vekcomstud: that explains all those emails...21:03
vishy#topic Nova Cells21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova Cells"21:03
vishycomstud: updates?21:03
comstudwoo, cells21:03
russellbreviews are up!21:03
comstud10 reviews are up21:03
* russellb will start reviewing21:04
comstudthe 2nd one is still rather large21:04
comstudthe main one21:04
comstudand I'll see what I can do about splitting it more.. but I'm not sure it's possible21:04
russellbit's ok, but it will definitely be held against you21:04
comstudit's +4688, -2321:05
comstudsure thing! ;)21:05
comstudhey, that -23 is meaningful with the +468821:05
russellbnah, looking forward to helping review and get it in21:05
comstudit means i barely changed any core code21:05
Vekwell, that's OK; vish did a -17000 the other day :)21:05
russellbi'm happy to see it went from 1 to 10 patches21:05
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comstudthis is rebased against another patch I have up21:06
comstudto add some hooks into service.start()21:06
russellbso markmc left some comments on the last pass at this ... has any of that been addressed?21:06
sdaguehow helpful would it be to be to land the devstack changes during this review? those are out there as of a day or so ago21:06
comstudwhich cleans up a bit of code in cells manager21:06
russellbrpc versioning stuff is what i remember21:06
comstudand another review that went in recently that hard coded some binaries in service.py21:06
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comstudrussellb: there's rpc vesioning in here, yes21:06
comstudIt's at 1.0.. i dunno if that should be bumped to 2.021:06
comstudto match other managers21:07
russellbthe compute api?  i guess i need to read the code21:07
comstudit's not compute api21:07
russellbor is its own API?21:07
comstudcells rpcapi21:07
russellbthen 1.0 is fine21:07
comstudI'd think so.. cool.21:07
markmcso, it's possible to update child cells before parent cells?21:07
markmcor the other way around?21:07
comstudit depends.21:07
comstudit depends on how you change the compute_api signatures21:07
comstudif you do21:07
comstudthere's no versioning on those :)21:08
comstudI do not really like that the child cell has to re-call compute_api, TBH21:08
russellboh right, that's where you hook in, you replace the API class?21:08
comstudI have longer term ideas there... that kinda go along with separating the nova-compute daemon21:08
comstudat the top level21:09
russellbi guess that's convenient ... just problematic since we do *nothing* to ensure API compatibility from one commit to the next21:09
comstudand I don't like it, really21:09
comstudIt was the best way to be non-invasive for now21:09
russellbi can probably talk more intelligently after I do a pass of the code ...21:09
comstudwhat would be really nice is...21:09
comstudwe can just proxy compute manager calls via cells21:10
comstudso we can just sub out the rpcapi class21:10
russellbso action for this week, make good review progress, and have clear things identified that need to be addressed so work can continue21:10
vishyrussellb: sounds good21:10
comstudYeah, I suspect there'll be a lot of complaints about some ugliness.. which is fine21:10
russellbwould you sub it out, or just override the topic?21:10
vishylets move on we have lots to cover21:10
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russellbtopic and server i guess ...21:10
comstudrussellb: Good question ;)21:11
comstudfuture brainstorming.21:11
vishy#action action for this week, make good review progress, and have clear things identified that need to be addressed so work can continue21:11
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vishy#topic The state of the baremetal driver21:11
*** openstack changes topic to "The state of the baremetal driver"21:11
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rmkwho is working on that?21:12
vishyis anyone else reviewing21:12
* devananda waves21:12
* russellb hasn't touched it :-/21:12
vishyI approved the first patch but no one else seems to be helping21:12
dansmithI've looked, but got a little nauseous21:12
* russellb looks at markmc21:12
markmcI'll review the first one tomorrow morn at least21:13
russellbhe showed a lot of interest in it before at least :-)21:13
rmkIt's just such a different model than everything else is probably why and really not much pull for it (that I've seen at least)21:13
russellbmarkmc: yes.21:13
devanandai posted reviews on 2 of their patches today asking for small changes21:13
markmcdevananda, yeah, that looked like good stuff21:13
devanandathe baremetal db patch needs a lot of small work IMO21:13
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russellbdevananda: nice, thanks.  your db session was great btw.21:14
devanandagoing to be talking more about that here in 3hr :)21:14
devanandaa bunch of us are developing a toolchain for testing the baremetal patches right now21:15
devanandaprobably a month away from handing that to the CI team21:15
devananda(maybe less)21:15
devanandasuffice to say, NTT's fork _does_ work but it's kinda fragile21:15
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devanandawe're pushing patches back to them, which they're incorporating pretty quickly, when we fix things21:15
devanandai'd really like to see unit tests added to their reviews....21:16
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vishydevananda: it sounds like you are helping a lot with that stuff21:17
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vishydevananda: do you mind taking the lead on helping them get through fixes and reviews?21:17
markmcvishy, they're actually running it, which is kinda shocking :)21:17
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russellband people that help get gold stars21:17
vishymarkmc: ikr21:17
* russellb hands out gold stars to the room21:17
devanandawe've got a bunch of people who just joined us specifically for baremetal21:18
devanandavishy: nope happy to help NTT guys with this21:18
vishydevananda: awesome21:18
* markmc googles 'ikr'21:18
russellbmarkmc: i know right21:18
markmcrussellb, ikr21:18
vishy#action devananda to help shepherd baremetal patches21:18
vishymarkmc needs to spend more time hanging out with teenagers21:19
vishy#topic Nova Bugs21:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova Bugs"21:19
russellbvishy: i think that came out wrong21:19
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russellb36 untouched21:19
russellbstill reasonable21:19
vishyyes we seem to be doing ok there21:19
russellbwith triage at least21:20
vishyany comments on bug handling?21:20
russellbfix more21:20
comstudi approve of it21:20
dansmithI added some21:20
comstudhandle them21:20
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dansmith(I mean, I'm assuming I did)21:20
vishy#topic Nova Coverage for Tempest21:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova Coverage for Tempest"21:20
sdaguemtreinish you're up21:20
mtreinishSo, I've been working on enabling tempest, or another external program, to be able to generate coverage reports for nova. So that tempest can see what parts of nova it is exercising.21:20
mtreinishThe nose coverage plugin doesn't report on nova's coverage when it is enabled for tempest. (obviously)21:21
mtreinishThe first idea that I had was to use an api extension that can use the coverage api to start and stop coverage reporting and generate reports.21:21
mtreinishI have a WIP of this approach up on gerrit at:
mtreinishI'm just trying to get a consensus on this approach and whether it's the best way to go about this, or if there is a better way to do it.21:21
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markmcmtreinish, will that only report coverage for the api server?21:22
Vekhmmm...I do sorta like the concept...21:22
markmcmtreinish, something like eventlet_backdoor would make more sense to me, I think21:22
mtreinishmarkmc: I think that it should report coverage for everything that is being run21:23
markmcmtreinish, hmm, how does that work?21:23
dansmithmtreinish: even across the message queue?21:23
* markmc assumes coverage just reports the current process21:24
VekI'm fairly certain markmc is correct21:24
markmcVek, in general? :)21:24
mtreinishmarkmc: it's still a bit of voodoo to me on how the actual coverage module works. I had a sample report generated but I lost it21:24
Vek(and I'd go with a slightly different pattern on the exclude ;)21:24
vishywe couldu use nova-all21:24
Vekmarkmc: well, as long as you agree with me, we're in agreement21:25
vishythat would get coverage on everyhing21:25
* vishy can't type21:25
markmcvishy, it'd be nice if this worked in e.g. smokestack and devstack too21:25
vishymarkmc: true, I was just going for quick and dirty version ;)21:26
markmcanother eventlet_backdoor command could work, right?21:26
vishymtreinish: do you have enough to go on for the next step?21:26
vishysounds like prototyping a backdoor version is it21:26
mtreinishvishy: sure I'll give that a go21:27
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markmcmtreinish, cool stuff, it'd be awesome to have this21:27
vishy#topic Action items from the live upgrade track21:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the live upgrade track"21:28
dansmithSo, I sent the email,21:28
dansmithsaw no comments or complaints21:28
russellbwhich email, heh21:28
* russellb drowns in email21:28
dansmithaside from the one we're giving to westmaas, I figure I'll make blueprints of the items21:28
dansmithheh, I guess I can't #do things21:28
sdaguethis topic and the next one are pretty linked, as the next topic is the action items from api21:29
russellbFWIW, all those action items in the email sound good to me21:29
sdagueif people could get on the list and take a look, assuming no complaints, we'll get those into blueprints21:29
vishyyeah blueprints would be great21:30
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dansmithsay, how much do we paid for blueprints these days?21:30
markmcall sounds good to me21:30
russellbnot sure how the rpc-version-control thing will work out, could get messy21:30
russellbbut anyway, still sounds good to have on "the list"21:30
markmcrussellb, yeah21:30
Vekyeah, no kidding...21:30
dansmithyup and yup21:30
vishyis the next one basically the same?21:30
vishy#topic Action items from the api consistency track21:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the api consistency track"21:30
sdaguevishy: yep21:30
russellbdansmith: you get tons of launchpad karma, which are worth like 3.4 internets21:31
sdaguesame approach, just content from another session21:31
dansmithrussellb: oh boy!21:31
Vekby the way, I never heard what, if anything, was decided about XML?21:31
dansmithVek: XML continues to be in the tree so we have something to hate21:31
russellbwe're going to embrace XML and add SOAP21:31
sdagueVek: I think the general agreement is that it stays at this point21:31
dansmithrussellb: damn, way better :)21:31
Veksdague: ugh.  Oh, well.21:31
Vekrussellb: :P~~~21:32
russellbit stays, and like most things that are there, we should make it work and stuff21:32
* vishy trips and accidentally beheads russelb with his katana21:32
sdagueVek: v3 is specifically a minor set of changes, so dropping a data format seems extreme in that21:32
vishy* russellb21:32
sdaguev4, well thats for others to decide :)21:32
russellbi don't see any reason to drop it21:32
VekI'll keep lobbying for the removal of XML :)21:32
Vekhave we at least decided on changes to the XML to make it easier to generate from the JSON?21:33
* markmc gives XML a hug21:33
vishysdague: do we have a place to collect suggestions for what belongs in v321:33
* Vek watches marcmc cut himself on all the sharp edges21:33
sdaguevishy: not yet, that's on that todo list, blueprint and wiki page off it21:33
vishyVek: not in v321:33
sdagueI'll get to it over the next couple of days21:33
vishysdague: i think that is the next big thing. If we want any chance of producing v3 by grizzly21:34
sdagueagain, wanted at least general head nodding before ploughing ahead21:34
sdaguevishy: agreed21:34
russellbmarkmc: how nice of you ... XML does get abused.21:34
vishyok next topic21:34
vishy#topic 3rd Party APIs21:34
*** openstack changes topic to "3rd Party APIs"21:34
vishyso we had a summit discussion about proposing to the TC to allow 3rd party apis in21:34
vishyI'm supposed to draft an email explaining the proposal21:35
vishybut aside from support by people in nova-core I think the TC is not going to go for it21:35
vishyso I wanted to discuss alternatives.21:35
markmcvishy, you know, I think the TC decision could be interpreted as allowing gce in21:35
markmcvishy, i.e. "projects should strive for a performant, stable API which 3rd party APIs can build on"21:36
markmcvishy, we don't have that, and IMHO the implication is 3rd party APIs are welcome until we do have it21:36
russellband until someone shows up to do the work to make it possible ...21:36
vishyi have this crazy idea of taking a weekend and making ec2 proxy all calls to compute_api through novaclient.21:36
jog0markmc:  GCE api is in beta12  so its not stable yet21:36
* sdague wonders if markmc was a lawyer in a past life21:36
russellbvishy: so you'd reinvent an ec2 -> OS proxy?21:37
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jog0markmc: beta1321:37
dansmith"no can really be interpreted as yes if you merely change all the letters"21:37
vishyrussellb: yeah I'm not super happy with that but at least we have proof that 3rd party apis can work21:37
Vekrussellb: actually, it might not be a bad idea.  At the very least, as a proof of concept, it should help us understand what features OS is missing to make such things possible.21:38
vishyi was debating whether to modify ec2/ to use novaclient21:38
russellbsounds like a giant distraction from things that this group would be better off working on21:38
sdagueyeh, if we are cracking v3 to do consistency, now would be the time to figure out if 3rd party APIs can actually build on it, and what we have to fix to do it21:38
Vekdansmith: Look up the gilbert and sullivan operetta "Iolanthe" sometime; the conflict is resolved by the addition of a single word to a low :)21:38
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vishyor to make a version of compute.API that actaully proxies through the client like we did with cinder21:39
jog0vishy: how do you handle metadat aservices?21:39
vishyjog0: it will have to be plugins21:39
dansmithVek: heh....alright :)21:39
vishyrussellb: well the problem is we haven't delivered on "projects should strive for a performant, stable API which 3rd party APIs can build on"21:39
vishyso we have nothing for GCE21:40
vishyI don't think it is really acceptable for us to just ignore that21:40
markmcI think we've enough problems without tackling that21:40
jog0vishy:  anyway we can leverage the RPC versioning work here?21:40
russellbthe rpc stuff is a few layers deep21:41
jog0too bad21:41
jog0I was afraid of that21:41
russellbi mean, it's software, a new rpc API could be added21:41
vishyso should i go ahead with proposing to the TC that we allow in other apis?21:41
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markmcvishy, committees can say "projects should strive for foo" all day long, projects still need to prioritize stuff21:41
russellbbut the existing one wouldn't work for solving this21:41
vishyor maybe markmc, the lawyer, wants to draft a proposal?21:42
russellbvishy: that's my opinion at least ... we can vote if you'd like21:42
markmcvishy, I can do that21:42
vishymarkmc: :)21:42
russellbdelegation ftw!21:42
jog0how much work would be involved in versioning and stabilizing the compute.API?21:42
vishy#action markmc to take over drafting a proposal to the TC regarding 3rd party apis21:42
vishyjog0: infinite21:43
russellbjog0: it's other APIs too, right?21:43
russellba non-zero amount21:43
vishy#topic Grizzly blueprints21:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Grizzly blueprints"21:43
jog0russellb:  yeah21:43
markmcjog0, it's like versioning the DB models and everything21:43
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russellbversion the world21:44
russellbso, blueprints!  we should have some of those21:44
vishywe have 90+ blueprints21:44
Vekthere goes our hope for performant APIs...21:44
sdagueand more soon...21:44
jog0I just made two blueprints this morning21:44
russellbVek: the APIs are performant, they're just not stable.21:45
vishyi don't think we need to version db models21:45
Vekrussellb: just commenting that the more complex we make APIs (for versioning), the less performant those APIs will be21:45
vishyto solve the 3rd party api thing anyway21:45
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markmcgood god, that's a lot of blueprints21:46
russellbVek: ah, perhaps..21:46
vishyok so I could use help targetting blueprints21:46
vishyI've done a bunch21:46
vishyand i've obsoleted some leftover ones from folsom21:46
dansmithvishy: get rid of that no-db-compute one.. it's bogus and nothing but trouble21:46
vishythere are a bunch that are simple approves21:46
russellbothers probably need some sanity checking and research to figure out wtf it was21:47
russellbblueprints don't really provide a way to comment or discuss i guess ...21:47
russellbtry to contact submitter, CC openstack-dev if needed?21:47
vishyi usually just comment on the whiteboard21:48
russellb"db-cleanup", that's pretty bold :-)21:48
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vishyalso could use help here:
vishylinking the blueprints in21:49
vishyto the summit sessions21:49
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jog0russellb: even if  only 20% of it is completed its better then nothing21:49
russellbjog0: sure, it's good stuff.21:50
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sdaguevishy: I'll update the etherpad for relevant sessions I ran21:51
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vishysdague: cool thx. If you fill in summary, keep it short and sweet21:51
sdaguewill do21:51
russellbmarkmc: this seems like something to drive through openstack-common -
sdagueI'll follow your lead there on formatting and brevity21:52
vishyi'm doing this hopefully to help us make sure we didn't forget any blueprints21:52
markmcrussellb, there is a common client effort, dhellmann did a session on it at the summit21:52
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russellbmarkmc: yeah.  this description acts like that's different, but maybe it's not.  this is about the openstack-common equivalent for client libraries (not the CLI itself)21:53
russellbis that a common library for all APIs as well?21:53
Vekmarkmc: blueprint points out that that's a CLI, whereas this blueprint reads more for an API21:53
russellbor is it just using the existing libs?21:53
markmcI assume it's a common library for all APIs and CLI builds on that21:53
vishyvolunteers to help with bps?21:53
russellbwell that would do it then.21:54
vishyyou need to be on nova-drivers to approve and target21:54
russellbvishy: i will help ... hope i'm not volunteering for too much21:54
russellbi've volunteered for enough to ensure i don't code again for the next week21:54
Vekrussellb: what a relief!  *duck*21:54
russellbbut looks like i'm not in that team21:55
sdagueI hesitate to volunteer until I've got all the rest of my blueprints up and the v3 docs bits in place21:55
russellbVek: nice.21:55
russellbthanks vishy21:55
vishyyou are now!21:55
Vekheh :)21:55
russellbso right now we're just targeting to grizzly as appropriate21:55
russellbnot specific milestones21:56
vishyand setting priority21:56
vishyand hitting all the approved fields21:56
russellbwith a hammer?!21:56
vishyif anyone else feels like helping ping me21:56
vishy(and putting them in the summit-summary etherpad21:56
vishy#topic open discussion21:56
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion"21:56
VekI made a start on Boson21:57
* russellb googles Boson21:57
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Vekthe CERN guys are very interested in it, which is good, because I have to shelve it for a little while to work on some higher-priority internal stuff21:57
russellbVek: how appropriate21:57
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jog0I have a patch to disable quotas by default  -- and was hoping to get some feedback if thats a good idea or not21:58
Vekyeah, they commented on the appropriateness of the name when they first saw my list email about it :)21:58
russellboh, nice21:58
devanandajog0: ++21:58
Vekironically, I actually wasn't referring to the Higgs.  Further irony is that my bachelor's is in Physics21:58
Vekany way, very long term goal is to replace quota systems in OpenStack with Boson21:59
devanandai posted a doc outlining better ways to use sessions and transactions. review #1496622:00
Vekand I'd like some help with it, if anyone's interested ( for now)22:00
Vekdevananda: OK, cool22:00
devanandaif there's a better place to put that, just let me know22:00
russellbdevananda: i wonder where the best place is to put that ...22:00
devanandaor if someone disagrees / etc22:00
devanandarussellb: :)22:00
jog0devref ?22:00
russellbwell thing is, it applies beyond nova22:01
markmcwiki sounds good, then22:01
devanandaiirc, at the summit vishy suggested sticking it in or such22:01
russellbthough we talked about moving this particular code to openstack-common22:01
devanandawell, no22:01
devanandathis is more "how to use"22:01
russellbso it's not such a bad place to put it for the moment ...22:01
devanandaerm, so maybe it is better in common :)22:02
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russellbwell code isn't there yet22:02
russellbpresumably your docs would move with it once it is22:03
russellbannnnyway, yay for docs22:03
sdagueagreed, nice work22:03
* clarkb sneaks in his draft change for running nova unittests under testr. its a draft I can either add people to it or publish it and change it to WIP22:04
sdagueclarkb: make in wip please, just easier to let people see things22:05
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clarkbsdague: done22:05
markmcvishy, #endmeeting ? :)22:06
russellbthanks vishy !22:06
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"22:06
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov  1 22:06:34 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:06
openstackMinutes (text):
markmclaters :)22:06
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russellbcya everyone.22:06
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