Wednesday, 2012-12-05

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jgriffithlooks like a number of cinder folks are here ready to go...15:58
jgriffithjdurgin1: winston-d rnirmal thingee ?15:58
rnirmaljgriffith: here... but on and off15:59
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jgriffith#startmeeting cinder15:59
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec  5 15:59:59 2012 UTC.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
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jgriffithkmartin: let's start with you today :)16:00
jgriffith#topic FC update16:00
*** openstack changes topic to "FC update (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:00
kmartinsure, we have good news16:00
* jgriffith likes good news16:00
kmartinWe have a proof of concept working for the Fibre Channel support, working on a few issues with detach.16:00
jgriffithkmartin: awesome!16:01
kmartinI updated the FC spec attached to the cinder blueprint and entered a new blueprint in nova for the required changes16:01
jgriffithkmartin: very cool16:01
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jgriffithkmartin: you think you guys are going to get the patches in the next week or so?16:02
winston-djgriffith: hey~16:02
jgriffithwinston-d: morning/evening :)16:02
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avishayhello all16:02
winston-djgriffith: morning16:02
winston-davishay: hi~16:02
eharneyhi everyone16:02
winston-dhi eharney16:02
* jgriffith thinks he started a touch early today :)16:02
kmartinstill need to get legal approval for sharing any code to a wide group, but we could set something to show you16:02
jgriffithkmartin: so what do you think as far as when some patches will hit?16:03
hemna_we could do a demo for you at some point16:03
jgriffithhemna_: That would be cool16:03
hemna_we are still waiting for legal16:03
hemna_we put the 3par driver through legal a week ago.16:03
hemna_still waiting for that16:03
* jgriffith dislikes lawyers16:03
kmartinjgriffith: likewise16:04
avishayI'm glad it's not only IBM that's like that :P16:04
jgriffithYa know, considering the investment and backing HP has in Openstack this should be a no brainer for them16:04
hemna_There are still some underlying scsi subsystem issues I'm working out with FC, but it should be solvable16:04
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jgriffithhemna_: Ok... so one recommendation16:04
jgriffithhemna_: kmartin Gigantic patches are not fun for anybody16:04
hemna_I don't think they are hung up in legal....just takes time for them to dot the I's, cross the T's n such16:04
kmartinjgriffith: It is but they just want to make sure, it will happen it's just a slooooow process16:05
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jgriffithhemna_: kmartin keep in mind if there's a way to break it into digestible chunks it'll help us move on them when you submit16:05
hemna_jgriffith, I made clones of the nova, devstack, cinder repos internally and we are tracking against that and have our code checked into those clones16:05
thingeejgriffith, hemna_: +116:05
hemna_if we didn't have legal, then I'd make those public16:06
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jgriffithhemna_: That's cool, but what I'm getting at is don't just dump a single multi K line patch16:06
jgriffithhemna_: Try to break it in to logical chunks as much as possible16:06
hemna_the cinder patch is small right now16:06
hemna_almost all the work is in nova16:06
hemna_and it's fairly small as well16:06
jgriffithhemna_: Ok... cool, just wanted to point that out16:06
kmartinjgriffith: check out the spec to see the changes not very big at all16:06
jgriffithawesome... so we'll just wait for legal and hope for something in the next week or so :)16:07
hemna_we could give you a demo later this week on the POC16:07
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hemna_and I could walk you through the code if you like16:07
jgriffithhemna_: I'd be up for that, but probably not this week16:07
hemna_I'd rather get a review up front then wait until we submit16:07
jgriffithhemna_: maybe we could sync up later and try for next week?16:07
hemna_ok that's fine then as well16:08
jgriffiththere may be other folks here interested as well16:08
hemna_do we have a mechanism for desktop sharing n such ?16:08
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jgriffithhemna_: personally I use Google+16:08
avishaykmartin: Are you in touch with Dietmar from IBM on the FC stuff?16:08
hemna_Google+ does desktop sharing?  (linux?)16:09
kmartinjgriffith: we're meeting with the Brocade group and we'll update them as well we could probably run it by that group as well16:09
winston-djust a thought, isn't showing code to external people before legal approval still a possible legal issue?16:09
kmartinavishay: yes, he is part of our weekly meeting16:09
avishaykmartin: great16:09
winston-dlast time when Samsung tried to do that RedHat guys, RH people said, no, please don't do that before you've done legal process.16:10
hemna_winston-d, only if the osrb denies our project, which they shouldn't16:10
kmartinwinston-d: we would not post the code just a demo of what we have working16:10
winston-ddemo should be ok but you mentioned walk through code. so...16:11
jgriffithOk, we can sort through details on a demo and who's interested offline16:11
jgriffithI'd be interested and I'm sure others would16:11
avishayI'm interested as well16:11
jgriffithNot required, but if you guys want to take the time and effort that would be cool16:11
winston-di'd be interested to see demo as well!16:11
hemna_do we have a page for the approximate ship date for Grizzly?16:11
jgriffithhemna_: Yeah16:12
* jgriffith opening a browser16:12
winston-dnext April, 17th maybe?16:12
jgriffithhemna_: the page bswartz reference16:12
avishayjgriffith: did you see the agenda for today? :)16:12
jgriffithhemna_: and also you should all keep an eye on
jgriffithavishay: :)16:13
hemna_that page says april 1 ?16:13
jgriffithhemna_: say huh?16:13
jgriffithhemna_: Ohh... Grizzly16:13
jgriffithhemna_: thought you were talking about avishay and the meeting wiki16:14
hemna_oh :P16:14
jgriffith#topic G216:14
*** openstack changes topic to "G2 (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:14
jgriffithSpeaking of Grizzly and release dates16:14
jgriffithG2 is scheduled for Jan, HOWEVER16:14
jgriffithas I mentioned before we loose some time for the holidays16:15
jgriffithand we loose some time due to code freeze the week of the milestone cut16:15
hemna_HP is out for several weeks16:15
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jgriffithI just want to stress again...  We need to have the G2 work that's slated done by the end o fthis month16:15
jgriffithI'm particularly worried about a couple16:16
jgriffithVolume Backups...16:16
jgriffithI've not heard anything from Francis?16:16
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jgriffithdoes anybody know his irc nick?16:17
jgriffith(Francis Moorehead)?16:17
jgriffithanyone... bueller, bueller....16:17
hemna_no idea16:17
ollie1I've just pinged him16:17
jgriffithollie1: :) thanks16:17
hemna_I can look up his email address at work, if he's at HP16:17
jgriffithso he's part of the cloud services group I'm assuming?16:17
jgriffithhemna_: his email is on launchpad16:18
jgriffithanyway... that's one I'm concerned about and would like some updates16:18
jgriffithThe other is the Island work16:18
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hemna_If you can't get ahold of him, I can ping him on the internal instant messager network16:18
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ollie1Francis is in the HP cloud services group,16:19
jgriffithfrankm: :)16:19
jgriffithhave you had a chance to look at your blueprint for volume backups at all?16:19
frankmwe're starting to look at it now16:20
jgriffithand ollie1 I'm also wondering aobut your BP as well :}16:20
frankmi.e. this week16:20
jgriffithfrankm: so do I need to remove the target for G2?16:20
ollie1The glance metadata blueprint is done, code is merged16:20
jgriffithollie1: sorry... wrong line :(16:21
jgriffithfrankm: do you think this is still going to be something you can get done by Christmas?16:21
jgriffithchirp, chirp, chirp.... seems to be a cricket in my office16:22
jgriffithalright, I'll harass ollie1 and others offline :)16:23
avishayjgriffith: I have a couple questions that I wrote down in the agenda concerning volume backups - may I, while we're on the topic?16:23
jgriffithavishay: here we goo....16:23
jgriffith:)  I'm gettin to it16:23
jgriffith#topic volume backups16:23
*** openstack changes topic to "volume backups (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:23
frankmmaybe not by Christmas, but early in new year16:23
jgriffithfrankm: hmmmm16:24
jgriffithfrankm: ok, we'll sync up later16:24
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jgriffithavishay: maybe you have a better solution anyway :)16:24
jgriffithavishay: care to explain a bit on "volume backups pluggable"16:24
avishayi just have questions so far :)16:24
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* jgriffith doesn't need more questions :(16:24
jgriffithjust kidding16:25
avishaySure.  Copying to Swift is a great use case, but it seems useful to allow for more back-ends other than Swift16:25
jgriffithavishay: so if these are questions, here's some answers...16:25
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jgriffithavishay: well yes but it's not high on my list for a number of reasons16:25
avishayFor example, compressing and storing on some file system, backup software, tape, dedup ...16:25
jgriffithavishay: primarily if an end-user is backing up a volume they don't want to back it up to another higher perf and higher priced storage16:26
jgriffiththe ideal is to swift which is cheaper/deeper storage16:26
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avishayor dedup + tape, or some backup software that will manage all the backups plus store them somewhere cheap16:27
hemna_heading off to work...l8rs16:27
winston-djgriffith: i guess tape falls into that category16:27
jgriffithwinston-d: avishay I'm NOT doing a tape driver!16:27
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* jgriffith left the tape world and isn't going back16:27
smulcahyjgriffith: also, higher durability due to multiple copies16:27
winston-djgriffith: but IBM guys may. :)16:27
avishayI'm just saying, there are lots of backup solutions out there, so why limit the solution?16:28
jgriffithsmulcahy: winston-d hemnafk so I don't disagree with the *idea*16:28
jgriffithavishay: because we're a small team and can only do so much16:28
jgriffithI think we need to prioritize and move forward16:28
avishayWould making it pluggable and adding back-ends over time be a lot more work?16:28
jgriffithI don't think there's any argument that we should NOT have backups to swift16:28
winston-davishay: i think if we can have a pluggable framework, it's ok to have the first working version only support (have) swift plugin.16:29
jdurgin1winston-d: agreed16:29
jgriffithwinston-d: +116:29
avishayI totally agree that the first version can be swift-only16:29
avishayBut it would be great if it was pluggable for later16:29
jgriffithavishay: I agree with that16:29
smulcahyhow will pluggable work with regard to authentication?16:29
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smulcahywill all pluggable backends be expected to auth with keystone?16:30
jgriffithavishay: I'm just saying I don't want to jeopardize useful/needed cases for theory and what if's16:30
winston-dsmulcahy: authentication with keystone or backup back-ends?16:30
jgriffithMaybe I'm not clear on how "pluggable" you guys are talking16:30
jgriffithif you're talking independent services with their own auth model etc16:31
jgriffithI say hell nooo16:31
avishayNo, I meant something along the lines of volume drivers16:31
jgriffithif you're talking pluggable modules that's fine16:31
jgriffithavishay: Ok... phewww16:31
winston-djgriffith: agree.16:31
avishayjgriffith: I'm not crazy... :)16:31
jgriffithavishay: yeah, I'm fine with that but it's a harder problem than just saying *make it pluggable*16:32
smulcahyjgriffith: agreed, it will dramatically increase the complexity16:32
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smulcahyI'm not clear on how they will be pluggable if they don't share an auth mehcanism16:32
jgriffithSo I'd envision something like a backup manager/layer that can sit between the volume drivers and act as a conduit16:32
winston-dsmulcahy: they can just share auth API?16:32
jgriffithor go to swift16:32
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jgriffithOk, so I think the answer here is *yes* we should try to keep the design somewhat modular to allow expansion in the future16:33
jdurgin1smulcahy: perhaps the same way various volume drivers do their own auth?16:33
jgriffithjdurgin1: +1, but we'll need to look at changes to conf files16:34
jgriffithSo I don't want to get carried away on this right now16:34
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winston-djdurgin: +116:34
jgriffithThe bottom line is I'm worried we're not even going to get backups to swift in Grizzly at the rate we're going16:34
avishayI don't have a clear design here - I just know that almost every customer that has data today also has a backup solution, and they may like to use it for OpenStack too16:34
jgriffithlet alone add all this cool back-end to back-end stuff to it16:34
avishayIf you want to leave it out for now and come back to it later, that's fine16:35
jgriffithavishay: understood and agreed16:35
jgriffithavishay: I think it's something to keep in mind with the work being done now16:35
smulcahyjgriffith: we have working code at the moment, just need to work on porting it to grizzly so we should have something16:35
jgriffithI think you're right for bringing it up16:35
jgriffithsmulcahy: for which case?16:35
jgriffithsmulcahy: for the backup to swift?16:35
smulcahyyes, for the backup to swift16:36
jgriffithsmulcahy: are you working with frankm on this?16:36
jgriffithsmulcahy: same work?16:36
frankmyes, same work16:36
jgriffithOk.. thanks :)16:37
jgriffithI'm still getting all the nics together :)16:37
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smulcahyme too - wasn't sure who frankm was there for a second ;-)16:37
jgriffithOk... cool, so frankm smulcahy see what you can do about pluggable design thoughts on this16:37
jgriffithbut don't let it jeaopardize getting the code in16:38
avishayThank you16:38
jgriffitheverybody can hate on me for that if they want :)16:38
smulcahythats my initial thought - we can rework the backend part in a future iteration - but will give it some thought16:38
jgriffithsmulcahy: sounds good16:38
avishayjgriffith: whoever wants to hate on you will find reasons :P16:38
jgriffith#topic backup snapshots rather than volumes16:38
*** openstack changes topic to "backup snapshots rather than volumes (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:38
jgriffithavishay: indeed :)16:38
jgriffithSo here's the problem with snapshots....16:39
smulcahynova are talking about compute cells know which are kinda like zones/az's as far as I can tell - does cinder have any similar concept?16:39
jgriffithThey SUCK16:39
jgriffithsmulcahy: we have AZ's16:39
avishayjgriffith: won't volumes be changing while copying?16:39
jgriffithavishay: so you can say that to do backups it has to be offline/detached16:40
jgriffithavishay: it's not ideal16:40
bswartzjgriffith: care to elaborate?16:40
dtynanquick question re: snapshots - are there any quota limits on them?16:40
jgriffithbswartz: on snapshots?16:40
bswartzjgriffith: on suckage16:40
jgriffithdtynan: they count against your volume quotas IIRC16:40
jgriffithdtynan: I'd have to go back and refresh my memory though16:41
jgriffithbswartz: so... yeah, suckage16:41
jgriffithThe reality is that most of us here are associated with vedors for back-end storage16:41
jgriffithWe all have killer products with specific things we excel at16:41
jgriffiththe base/reference case for OpenStack is still LVM16:41
jgriffithso that needs to be a key focus in things that we do16:42
jgriffithonce you create an LVM snapshot you've KILLED your volume performance16:42
jgriffithit's about 1/8 on average16:42
jgriffithI've got a patch coming to address this16:42
avishayjgriffith: if you delete the snapshot afterward does performance return?16:43
jgriffithavishay: yes16:43
jgriffithavishay: it's a penalty you pay based on how LVM snaps work16:43
avishayso maybe whoever uses LVM can take a snapshot, back it up, and then delete it?16:43
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jgriffithavishay: if theyr'e smart they will :)16:44
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jgriffithavishay: But what I'm saying here is that I don't think we should modify the base code behavior and usage model for something that doesn't work well with LVM16:44
jgriffithextensions, extra features etc is fine16:44
bswartzjgriffith: so you're not complaining about the snapshot concept, you're complaining about the snapshot implementation in the reference driver16:45
jgriffithbswartz: Yeah, I think that's fair16:45
jgriffithbswartz: like I said I have a solution but it's not supported in precise yet16:45
jgriffithat least not officially16:45
bswartzare we generally happy with snapshot abstraction as it exists today?16:45
avishayIf it didn't work at all, that's one thing, but I think this backup idea is cool, and limiting it to offline volumes because LVM snapshot performance sucks might be holding us back, no?16:45
jgriffithbswartz: haha... that's a whole nother can o'worms16:46
jgriffithavishay: fair16:46
jgriffithavishay: but I wasn't finished.... :)16:46
jgriffithThe reality is, snapshots pretty much are "backups"16:46
bswartzif changing the abstraction allows us to solve some problems I'd be interested in disucssing that16:46
jgriffiththat's really the point IMO16:46
bswartzjgriffith: my view of snapshots has always been "things you can clone from"16:47
smulcahyI think the terminology is pretty important to set straight here - we should be clear going forward on what we mean by snapshots and backups and avoid using them interchangeably I think.16:47
avishaysnapshots are backups, but you can't put them on swift, can't attach them (yet?), can't restore (yet), ... frustrating :(16:48
jgriffithsmulcahy: and there inlies the challenge16:48
jgriffithavishay: I feel your pain16:48
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jgriffithavishay: I plan to have the restore as I've mentioned16:48
jgriffithavishay: backup to swift is ideal IMO16:48
dtynanpersonally I think snapshots like bswartz said are things you can clone from and also things you can create backups from.16:49
jgriffithavishay: but there are problems with backup16:49
jgriffithavishay: dtynan bswartz the problem is depending on how the snapshot is implemented it's actually nothing useful once it's copied out16:49
dtynanyeah, it's a point-in-time reference that you can use to make a backup or a clone...?16:50
jgriffithif it's just delta blocks it doesn't do you much good on it's own16:50
avishayjgriffith: you can always make a full copy, even if on the controller it's CoW or similar16:50
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jgriffithavishay: yes16:50
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jgriffithOk... so this sort of falls into the same problem/challenge I mentioned earlier16:51
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smulcahybut thats not what snapshots are at the minute are they?16:51
jgriffithwe have a lot of great ideas/conversation16:51
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jgriffithbut the reality is we need to implement the code :)16:51
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jgriffithI would still like to focus a bit16:52
jgriffithI'd rather get the blue-prints that are on the table and go from there:16:52
jgriffithSo what I'm saying is:16:52
jgriffith1. get backups of volumes to swift (TBH I don't care if it's from snap, volume or both)16:52
jgriffith2. Get snapshot/restore and clone implemented16:52
smulcahyI thought clarified the difference between both reasonably well16:53
jgriffithThen worry about all these other edge cases like tape backups etc16:53
smulcahyjgriffith: agreed, that sounds like a workable plan16:53
avishaySounds good to me16:53
jgriffithsmulcahy: thanks for the link, yes agreeed16:54
jgriffithanybody disagree/object?16:54
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jgriffithSo you all have probably noticed a couple of things16:54
jgriffith1. I prefer to get base implementations in and build on them (start simple and expand)16:54
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jgriffith2. We don't have a TON of submissions in the code (we're light on developers)16:55
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jgriffithmake sense?16:55
bswartzjgriffith: I agree in this case, but in general it's dangerous to implement something without considering how you'll be locked into that implementation forever16:56
jgriffithbswartz: Yeah, I'm not saying you do it blindly16:56
bswartzit's worthwhile to have these discussions16:56
smulcahybswartzL I think the api definition is the most critical16:56
jgriffithbswartz: I'm just saying you don't get stuck in analysis/paralysis16:56
avishayJust to clarify - the issues I'm bringing up aren't for going into the code today - just things to keep in mind so we don't have to toss the code later16:56
winston-djgriffith: agree16:57
jgriffithavishay: good point, and I totally agree with you16:57
smulcahycan people give feedback on the api's referenced in ?16:57
bswartzsmulcahy: agreed16:57
jgriffithbswartz: it's definitely worthwhile.. but16:57
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jgriffithI also want to point out there are a number of bugs and blue-prints that need work and are not assigned, or not making progress16:57
jgriffiththat's no good :(16:57
avishayjgriffith: I will see if I can help16:58
jgriffithYou can plan and discuss til your project whithers and dies16:58
jgriffithSo that's not a knock or an insult to anybody... I'm just trying to make a point16:58
jgriffithI'm happy with how Cinder has grown and the participation16:58
jgriffithI'm also happy with the discussions we have in these weekly meetings16:59
jgriffithI'm just saying we need to make sure we deliver as well16:59
jgriffithOk... surely you've all had enough of me for one day :)16:59
avishayjgriffith: I don't think you need to convince anyone of that :)16:59
jgriffithavishay: Ok.. cool17:00
jgriffithSo let's knock out these items avishay posted real quick17:00
jgriffith#topic volume-types17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "volume-types (Meeting topic: cinder)"17:00
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jgriffithavishay: so you'd like to see some sort of batch create on types?17:00
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avishaylet's take the example you posted for various options for the solidfire driver - do i need a volume type for every permutation?17:01
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jgriffithavishay: if I remember what you're referencing correctly yes17:01
avishayi can easily script creating as many as i need, the question is if that's the way it's meant to be used, or if I'm missing something17:02
winston-davishay: i think that really depends on admin not back-end provider17:02
jgriffithwinston-d: +117:02
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avishaywinston-d: agreed17:02
jgriffithavishay: Ahhh17:02
winston-davishay: you can always put those useful combination into your back-end manual to educate admin how to fully utilize your back-end17:02
jgriffithavishay: the exact usage is really going to be dependent on the provider/admin17:02
jgriffithbut yes, if they want/have a bunch of types, they can script it exactly as you describe17:03
avishayso if the back-end supports RAID-5, RAID-6 and also HDD/SDD, that's 4 volume types, right?17:03
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jgriffithavishay: that's the way I would do it17:03
avishayOK cool17:03
jgriffithavishay: so they're all different types, correct?17:04
avishayI was just thinking if volume types could be used for affinity between volumes (or anti-affinity)...that would require lots of types17:04
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jgriffithavishay: hmmm, so that leads to your next item17:05
jgriffithavishay: correct?17:05
avishaynot really, but I guess I did understand the volume type usage correctly, so we can move on :)17:05
jgriffithavishay: :)17:05
jgriffith#topic filter driver17:05
*** openstack changes topic to "filter driver (Meeting topic: cinder)"17:05
jgriffithSo I think you're right on the money here, types is the first implementation of a filter17:06
jgriffiththere are definitely others we'll want/need17:06
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jgriffithDoh!  We're over already17:06
jgriffithOk, let's wrap this topic, then I have one more thing to bring up17:07
jgriffithavishay: do you want to expand on this topic at all?17:07
winston-djgriffith: nevermind, we have two meeting channels now. :)17:07
avishayjgriffith: No, it's just a thought on future directions17:07
jgriffithwinston-d: Oh that's right :)17:07
jgriffithavishay: Yeah, that's kinda the point of the filter scheduler17:08
jgriffithavishay: The way it's designed we'll be able to add "different" filters as time goes on17:08
avishayOK cool17:08
jgriffithjust starting with type filters17:08
avishayI was really talking more about the API between the scheduler and back-end17:09
jgriffithwinston-d: slap me upside the head if I'm telling lies :)17:09
jgriffithavishay: so you mean calls to get that info?17:09
avishayIf there should be one function for getting capabilities, another for getting status info, another for getting per-volume info, etc.17:09
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jgriffithavishay: perf, capacity etc17:09
winston-djgriffith: well, i prefer capabilities filter, rather than type filter. :) but we can have type filter.17:10
jgriffithwinston-d: fair... you can call it whatever you like :)17:10
jgriffithavishay: Yes, I think those are all things that are needed in the volume api's17:11
winston-davishay: back-end reports capabilities, status (of back-end, rather than each volumes) to scheduler.17:11
avishayjgriffith: OK, just another future topic to keep in mind :)17:11
winston-dscheduler is also able to request those info17:11
avishaywinston-d: I thought per-volume would be useful in the future, but not needed now17:12
jgriffithavishay: I agree with that17:12
avishayMaybe migrate volumes based on workload, etc. - not in the near future :)17:12
jgriffithavishay: +1 for migration!!!17:12
avishayjgriffith: working on a design :)17:12
winston-davishay: per volume status should be taken care of by ceilometer, no?17:12
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jgriffithavishay: I've been thinking/hoping for that in H release17:12
avishayI will also see if I can get some more time to allocate to existing code work17:13
jgriffithcool... speaking of which17:13
jgriffith#topic bp's and bugs17:13
*** openstack changes topic to "bp's and bugs (Meeting topic: cinder)"17:13
jgriffithone last item17:13
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jgriffithI really need help with folks to keep up on reviews17:14
jgriffithalll I'm askign is that maybe once a day go to:17:15
rushiagr1jgriffith: i would make sure i spend time on that from now on17:15
jgriffithjust pick one even :)17:15
jgriffithrushiagr1: cool17:15
jgriffithrushiagr1: speaking of which have you been watching the bug reports?17:16
rushiagr1jgriffith: not much in the last week but yes..17:16
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jgriffiththingee: thanks... I got kicked off my vpn17:18
jgriffithSo that's another one for folks to check frequently17:18
jgriffithalso notice here:
jgriffithThere's a recent activity for questions, bugs etc17:19
jgriffithanybody that wants to help me out just drop in there once in a while and see what they can do17:19
jgriffithalright... I'm off my soapbox for the week17:20
jgriffith#topic open discussion17:20
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)"17:20
bswartzthingee: thanks for the link17:20
rushiagr1jgriffith: as a starter, i many a times require a little help to start with a bugfix or a code review, but unfortunately for me, i find very few people available in work hours for my timezones17:20
jgriffithrushiagr1: understood17:20
avishayI need to go - bye everyone.  Thanks for all the time with my questions!17:21
bswartzjgriffith: one item, it is okay if we exempt the Netapp drivers from being split into multiple .py files in the drivers directory?17:21
jgriffithrushiagr1: so *most* of the time there are a few of us on #openstack-cinder17:21
* rushiagr1 thinks its time to change my sleep schedule :)17:21
winston-drushiagr1: which timezone r u in?17:21
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jgriffithI haven't been around at night as much lately, but will be again17:21
jgriffithalso winston-d is there17:21
* winston-d already changed a lot17:21
jgriffithand thingee never sleeps!17:21
rushiagr1winston-d: india +5:3017:21
jgriffithbswartz: You mean revert the changes already made?17:22
thingeerushiagr1: I'm on throughout the day PST and the only time I'm able to work on stuff is at night here so I'm usually on all day O_O17:22
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winston-dwinston-d: ah, i'm in china, that's GMT+8, should overlap a lot17:22
bswartzI didn't think the netapp drivers has been split as of yet17:22
jgriffithbswartz: nope, so you don't have to worry17:22
jgriffithbswartz: I don't think anybody has any plans to do more with that at this time17:23
bswartzokay, I'd like to maintain the status quo17:23
bswartzthat's cool, thank you17:23
rushiagr1thingee: winston-d i usually find almost no activity during my office hours on cinder channel, so assumed everyone there are inactive...shouldnt have assumed17:23
jgriffithbswartz: if it comes up we'll try to remember and you can -1 the review :)17:23
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thingeerushiagr1: ah yeah just ping us. I'm lurking most of the time and just talking when I need input17:24
winston-drushiagr1: you can just ask questions, i'll try to answer if i'm in it.17:24
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rushiagr1jgriffith: haha17:24
rushiagr1thingee: winston-d thanks, will surely bother you starting tomorrow :)17:24
winston-drushiagr1: sure, happy to help17:25
jgriffithOk... cool, anything else from folks?17:25
thingeerushiagr1: I recommend at the very least, pick something up, drop a question in the channel and worse case you get an answer the next day to proceed. email is acceptable too17:25
jgriffiththingee: rushiagr1 good point17:25
jgriffithrushiagr1: I log/highlight anything with my name even when I'm not online17:26
jgriffiththen get back to folks when I arrive17:26
rushiagr1jgriffith: thingee agree, will take note of it17:26
* jgriffith is a big fan of leaving irc up and running 24/717:26
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* bswartz is too, when internet cooperates17:27
jgriffithalrighty... thanks everyone17:27
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:27
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec  5 17:27:35 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:27
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CaptTofuHey there18:01
Kiall#startmeeting dnsaas18:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec  5 18:01:30 2012 UTC.  The chair is Kiall. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: dnsaas)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'dnsaas'18:01
KiallSo - Who's around today?18:01
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KiallOkay.. So, You may have noticed the agenda on the wiki is "TBD".18:02
CaptTofuI's is here18:02
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KiallThis week has been productive, but no new questions or decisions have been needed18:03
CaptTofuwhat are some of the big things worked on this past week - a good question18:03
KiallHence - Unless anyone has anything for today, we'll likely just do a quick review of what's landed over the week18:03
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KiallSo - 17 reviews landed during the week, and I'll get jcmartin's reusable sqla one merged in the next few houts18:04
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KiallThe two big server side ones are A) CaptTofu MySQL+Bind backend18:05
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Kialland B) the switch to pure .json schemas, giving us much more freedom in how we enforce the rules of the API18:06
jcmartinone remark on this18:06
jcmartinyou are using a specific verison of jasonschema18:06
jcmartindo you this as a pb ?18:06
KiallI do - We depend on a specific git revision right now18:07
KiallWe're making use of a feature from the trunk version, which kinda sucks but saved us a huge amount of code18:07
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KiallI've had a chat with the authors, and a new release is due "soon"18:08
KiallAt that point, we can depend on >0.818:08
jcmartinok, as long as it gets into pip before us ...18:08
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Kialljcmartin, yea.. if they don't release soon, we will have to figure something  else out18:09
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KiallOkay.. and the big client side review that landed is a (90%) working PythonAPI and CLI18:10
KiallExample usage ^18:10
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KiallThe handling of issuing an update API call is currently.. well.. broken18:11
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Kiallmyself and zykes- have gone round in circles trying to figure a solution to 1 part of the that issue.. And I think we have a fix, but simply haven't had time to implement it yet18:11
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KiallThe other big change that landed is the ability to load a backend straight into the central service, rather than needing to use the agent service18:13
CaptTofugood for cases where only database updates (powerdns, mysqlbind) are needed18:13
KiallThere are still some kinks to be worked out in the current backends, but the changes to moniker-central/moniker-agent should be solid18:13
KiallCaptTofu, yea - combined with jcmartin's patch, we should be good to go for PowerDNS etc18:14
jcmartinwhat's left to be done ?18:14
Kialljcmartin, So.. Right now the bind9 backend agent uses RPC to ask central for some extra data..18:14
KiallBut - when it loads straight into central, that triggers a deadlock.. central is blocked waiting for a response, so it can't issue a response18:15
KiallI've not had time to look any further than that into it though :)18:16
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CaptTofuKiall: I also need to add slave functionality to bind918:16
CaptTofupretty trivial really18:16
KiallSo - That really covers off what landed this week, and what will land in the next few hours..18:16
KiallMy priority list is now pretty small - It basically consists of 1) Tests, 2) Bugfix, 3) Goto 118:17
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KiallI *think* all core features have landed now.. The only remaining feature changes should be in the plugins18:18
jcmartinI'll try to write a plugin for our internal dns, this will shake out the new backend18:18
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zykes-Kiall: I know one that needs landing really18:18
Kiallthis one?18:18
jcmartinwhat about additional records ?18:18
zykes-Floating IP handler for Nova18:18
CaptTofujcmartin: which dns server type?18:18
Kialljcmartin, great..18:18
Kiallzykes-, did that really not land already? I was sure you did that!18:19
zykes-Kiall: Quantum yes :)18:19
CaptTofuwow,never heard of that one - is is db or file based?18:19
zykes-I don't run nova for that part Kiall18:19
zykes-since I use Quantum18:19
Kiall#action kiall to implement floating IP handler for Nova18:19
jcmartinrest api. Most telcos run nominum18:19
jcmartinit's has ha masters18:20
zykes-what's that written in jcmartin ?18:20
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KiallOkay - So does anyone have any other features that think should have landed, but haven't?18:21
jcmartinit's an early fork of bind (mockapetris work for nominum)18:21
jcmartinkiall: is there any issue supporting all record types ?18:21
KiallI'd like to get all core features 100% done before the end of the week, then cut a (very late) g1 release (ignoring the jsonschema dep issue for g1)18:21
Kialljcmartin, there is.. But I started with a limited set mainly just to have a limited number of records to build a schema for..18:22
Kialljcmartin, any record types missing that you need?18:22
jcmartinthis is not urgent anyway18:23
jcmartinif I need them, I'll add them ;-)18:23
KiallI can probably open it up to accept anything, while still keeping strict validation for known types (eg A, AAAA, MX etc) in place..18:24
* zykes- suggests adding a bug + a review 18:24
zykes-should be doable ? : p18:24
KiallThe issue with that though, is that a bad record could cause the zone to be ignored by bind (or another backend)18:24
KiallSo.. Either we have to accept that if people muck up, their zone may disappear, or we have to try and find a way to detect+correct issues18:25
KiallHence I chose to start with a limited set :)18:25
Kiall#action kiall to file a bug re additional/free for all record types18:26
zykes-what's the price for that jcmartin ?18:26
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jcmartinzykes- for what ?18:27
KiallOkay.. So, what do people think of shooting for feature complete g1 release on Friday?18:27
zykes-Kiall: g2 you mean ?18:27
jcmartinit's above 100k, don't remember exactly18:27
zykes-g1 is over18:27
zykes-holy shitzo18:28
Kiallzykes-, yea.. g1 ;)18:28
jcmartinzykes- you know what happen when DNS breaks ;-)18:28
KiallI think we can get all the core changes in by then.. Plugins can continue to get features etc for a little longer, but the core will be locked down.18:29
KiallSo - Anyone disagree? :)18:29
Kiallzykes-, CaptTofu, andrewbogott?18:30
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CaptTofuno disagreement here18:30
andrewbogottnope, sounds good18:30
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CaptTofuthe core is pretty straightforward18:30
CaptTofuthen we can focus on testing, testing, and also testing18:30
KiallCaptTofu, exactly :)18:30
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KiallOkay.. So, thats about everything I had to say today. Does anyone have anything else to bring up?18:31
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KiallOkay! So - I'll take silence as a no then :)18:32
KiallOkay .. thanks again - And see you next week and/or in #openstack-dns :)18:33
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:33
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec  5 18:33:55 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:33
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asalkeld#startmeeting heat19:59
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec  5 19:59:05 2012 UTC.  The chair is asalkeld. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"19:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'19:59
asalkeldroll call ...19:59
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jpeelerjpeeler here19:59
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asalkeld#chair jpeeler asalkeld zaneb20:00
openstackCurrent chairs: asalkeld jpeeler zaneb20:00
asalkeldhey zaneb20:00
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asalkeld#chair jpeeler asalkeld zaneb radez20:00
openstackCurrent chairs: asalkeld jpeeler radez zaneb20:01
asalkeldradez, you are here right20:01
radezyea, sry on a diff screen20:01
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asalkeldwell small meeting today, shardy tomas away20:01
asalkeldso topics20:02
asalkeld#agenda Review last week's actions, web ui update, g220:02
asalkeldany others?20:02
asalkeld#topic Review last week's actions20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)"20:03
asalkeldput heatclient in pypi20:03
asalkeldis that done?20:03
asalkeldstevebake, ^20:04
asalkeldwell i enabled tag pushing20:04
asalkeldso some of it is possible20:04
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asalkeld"make a bug to update the ubuntu tdls to install a recent version of boto"20:05
asalkeldI think that is still at todo20:05
stevebakehere, mobile internet is working20:05
asalkeldhey stevebake20:05
asalkeldput heatclient in pypi20:06
asalkeldstevebake, did that happen?20:06
stevebake0.1.0 has been released to pypi20:06
asalkeldwell done20:06
stevebakesudo pip-install python-heatclient!20:06
asalkeldstevebake, so how did you do that (so someone else can do it)20:06
asalkeldjust push the tag?20:06
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stevebakeIts a secret! Actually we should submit a ci change to automatically release to pypi when a tag is pushed20:07
asalkeld#action stevebake should submit a ci change to automatically release to pypi when a tag is pushed20:07
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zanebasalkeld: shouldwe also kill the heat-api/python-heatclient repo?20:08
stevebakepython sdist upload <-- otherwise20:08
asalkeld#action asalkeld kill the heat-api/python-heatclient repo20:08
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stevebakeCan we talk GettingStarted.rst?20:09
asalkeld#topic GettingStarted.rst?20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "GettingStarted.rst? (Meeting topic: heat)"20:09
stevebakeI started porting it to python-heatclient, but it parses results so it will take a bit of effort.20:10
asalkeldis see20:10
asalkeldI see20:10
stevebakeWhen I first started on Heat it the structure of the doc confused me because it mixed image building, server and client hosts20:10
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zanebwell, it's the getting started guide20:11
zanebnot the deploy openstack guide20:11
asalkeldwell we could explain it a bit better20:11
stevebakei wonder if that structure is dictated by its dual role as an integration test20:11
zanebyes, we could definitely explain better20:11
zanebstevebake: maybe20:12
zanebthe idea of that was that we can try what we're actually telling people to do20:12
zanebsee if it actually works20:12
asalkeld#action stevebake look at make the gettingStart easier to understand20:12
stevebakeand still make it runnable for now?20:13
zanebI'm fine with splitting it up into separate files20:13
asalkeldtext should not effect the script part20:13
zanebIs this still most people's entry point to heat?20:13
zanebif so, then we should keep it runnable20:13
stevebakegood question, on fedora it probably is20:14
asalkeldnot sure, maybe devstack20:14
asalkeldafter grizzly maybe not20:14
stevebakeI'll have a play20:14
zanebone option is to focus on devstack for devs and RPM for everyone else20:14
zanebin that case, maybe a lot of that guide could go away20:15
stevebakeso what will be the first easy way of installing on Ubuntu? PPA? pip?20:15
zanebbut it will require a bunch of work on RPMs20:15
zaneband even more on .debs20:15
asalkeldwould help if we had a keen user that helped with packaging20:16
asalkeldon deb20:16
asalkeldso lets move on to webui20:16
asalkeld#topic webui status20:16
*** openstack changes topic to "webui status (Meeting topic: heat)"20:16
radezHopfully you all got a chance to look at my email to the list.20:16
radezHappy to take feedback.20:16
stevebakei'll need to go in 4 minutes20:16
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radezMy plan of action is as partially mentioned in the email:20:16
radez- setup Launchpad & create blueprints (been working on that this afternoon)20:16
radez- unit tests20:16
radez- deployment on devstack20:16
radez- update docs20:16
asalkelddoes it need the lauchpad presence?20:17
stevebakeradez: do you want to switch to the released python-heatclient? it probably has enough now20:17
radezI've been using master stevebake20:17
zanebhaven't looked yet unfortunately. still need to find a computer that will actually play those20:17
asalkeldwhen we get to core/whatever it will be merged into horizon?20:18
radezis there a big difference between master and released?20:18
radezasalkeld: maybe not, should I scratch the LP setup?20:18
asalkeldwell I am just asking20:18
stevebakeradez: currently not, but using a released version will help new users get started20:18
radezI don't know for certain if it will be merged in20:19
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asalkeldwhy not ask the horizon guys20:19
zanebseems like now Heat is in incubation, we should at least ask about merging it20:19
radezkk, I'll get intouch with them20:19
asalkeldwhat their opinion is20:19
asalkeldjust less work for you20:19
asalkeldadmin stuff is a pita20:19
asalkeldso radez you happy with the progress20:20
stevebakeradez: do you want help with devstack?20:20
radezI think so, I'd like some feed back on what you guys would like to see it in20:21
asalkeldI haven't yet - still morning20:21
radezI'm starting to get pulled into another project so we need to have a plan if I'm to continue developing it20:21
stevebakeI'll look at the screencast when I have bandwidth20:21
asalkeldI'll get there and give you some feedback20:21
radezcool  thx20:22
asalkeld#action checkout the demo20:22
asalkeld#topic g220:22
*** openstack changes topic to "g2 (Meeting topic: heat)"20:22
asalkeldso we need to release on jan 1020:22
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asalkeldwith the holidays in the middle20:23
asalkeldso we have maybe 2 weeks now and 1 week after20:23
asalkeld(the holiday)20:23
stevebakei will be around mostly20:23
zanebI'll be on holiday until the 14th20:23
asalkeldso we should start looking at bugs a bit more20:23
stevebakeapart from stats20:24
asalkeldand pay attension to the target release20:24
stevebakeand docs20:24
asalkeld(of the bugs)20:24
asalkeldyea, that's right20:24
asalkeldso are all the bp done?20:24
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asalkeldthey don't say so20:25
asalkeldAdd an OpenStack ReST API20:25
asalkeldzaneb, you done right?20:25
stevebakezaneb: could you update that?20:25
asalkeldit says unknown20:25
zanebnot to say there's nothing more to do, but the feature exists20:25
asalkeldstevebake, quantum is still in progress20:26
stevebakethey keep adding features!20:26
asalkeldzaneb, done if the feature work done - we can raise bugs after that20:26
asalkeldstevebake, well you have to define what you are going to do20:26
asalkeldcan't have a moving target20:27
stevebakeyep, i'll break up the bp20:27
asalkeldseems like a bunch of ubuntu related bugs20:28
asalkeldok - well I think you get the idea, lets make our first openstack release good20:28
stevebakewhew, walking and typing is hard20:29
asalkeld#topic open discussion20:29
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"20:29
jpeelerfyi, openstack common has been updated to depend on something not packaged in fedora (extras)20:29
* stevebake is sitting in a room with 300 kids20:29
asalkeldstevebake, sssh20:30
asalkeldback to school20:30
stevebakejpeeler: our should handle that now20:30
zanebI hate dependencies like that20:30
jpeeleroh really? ok then20:30
asalkeldso the other projects will drag it in too20:30
jpeelerstevebake: actually, via a pip install? going to create a packaging mess20:31
asalkeld(if it is in oslo)20:31
stevebakewill have to wait for packaging. lifeless_ wrote extras20:31
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asalkeldlovely name20:31
stevebakejpeeler: for devstack it will do a pip-install20:31
stevebakewe may as well use it for our conditional imports20:32
asalkeldI am done, anything else ...20:32
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"20:32
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec  5 20:32:35 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:32
openstackMinutes (text):
asalkeldthat was nice and short20:32
stevebakeI'd better go before a teacher tells me off20:32
radezc ya guys20:33
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openstackdhellmann: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'20:59
dhellmann#startmeeting Ceilometer20:59
openstackMeeting started Wed Dec  5 20:59:58 2012 UTC.  The chair is dhellmann. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'21:00
dhellmann#chair dhellmann21:00
openstackCurrent chairs: dhellmann21:00
dhellmannif you are here for the ceilometer meeting, please raise your hand21:00
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dhellmannnijaba is traveling, so may be in and out depending on connectivity21:01
dhellmannfirst up, actions from previous meetings21:01
dhellmann#topic yjiang5 to send patches for transformer21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "yjiang5 to send patches for transformer (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:01
yjiang5dhellmann: yes, sent out21:01
dhellmannthis is under review, with good discussion21:01
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nijabao/ (from flaky 3G in the high speed train)21:02
dhellmanndo we need to do anything else with it, aside from continue discussing, for next week?21:02
dhellmannyou live in the future, nijaba21:02
yjiang5dhellmann: I will rebase according to feedback.21:02
dhellmannyjiang5: but no action for the meeting?21:02
yjiang5dhellmann: no21:02
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dhellmann#info patch under review, task complete21:02
dhellmann#topic eglynn kick off Synaps discussion on upstream ML21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "eglynn kick off Synaps discussion on upstream ML (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:02
dhellmanneglynn: we have an agenda item about this for later in the meeting21:03
eglynnyep ... so the discussion is underway21:03
dhellmanno you21:03
dhellmann have21:03
dhellmanndo you have anything else to add now?21:03
eglynnI'll prod the Synaps guys to try to get them more vocal on the list21:03
dhellmannyeah, I'd like to know that we'll hear from them more than once a week or so if we're going to bring them into the team21:04
eglynnyes, agreed21:04
dhellmannok, we can discuss more in a bit21:04
dhellmann#topic nijaba to update the bp to specify complex request in a future version21:04
yjiang5eglynn: so can they access IRC?21:04
*** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to update the bp to specify complex request in a future version (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:04
eglynnyjiang5: I need to confirm that21:04
dhellmannthis appears to be done, right nijaba ?21:05
dhellmann#info done, see second example under number 2 in the "Design" section21:05
dhellmann#topic dhellmann to prepare example of dimension query syntax that will work with WSME21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellmann to prepare example of dimension query syntax that will work with WSME (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:05
dhellmann#info done, see the WSME example under number 2 in the "Design" section21:06
dhellmann#topic jd move asalkeld's client into openstack incubation/core21:06
*** openstack changes topic to "jd move asalkeld's client into openstack incubation/core (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:06
dhellmannjd__: any updates?21:06
jd__yes, started this afternoon with
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jd__wait'n see :)21:07
dhellmanncool, is that a new repo, then?21:07
* dhellmann didn't click through21:08
dhellmannany actions on this for next week?21:08
asalkeldhi, sorry bit late21:08
jd__like every other python-<osprojecc>client21:08
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dhellmannjd__: ok, good21:08
jd__dhellmann: I don't think so, I'll follow my review request21:08
dhellmann#topic yjiang5 talk with doc team to link to ceilometer docs21:08
*** openstack changes topic to "yjiang5 talk with doc team to link to ceilometer docs (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:08
dhellmannthat's merged, so is this work done?21:08
dhellmann#info done21:08
dhellmannon a related note, the references on launchpad have been updated to point to the new location21:09
dhellmannshould I delete replace it with a page pointing to the new location?21:09
jd__dhellmann: yeah, replace it and then delete21:09
dhellmann#action dhellmann replace with a page directing readers to the new site21:09
jd__here's the nijaba21:10
yjiang5dhellmann: so we will update the new doc site21:10
yjiang5dhellmann: to improve it , right?21:10
dhellmannyjiang5: yes, the jenkins job updates the new site automatically after every merge21:10
dhellmannso we can expand the documentation through our normal review process, without waiting for me to remember to push to my repo to get updated :-)21:10
yjiang5dhellmann:  great.21:11
nijabadhellmann: we may want to keep readthedoc for0.1 doc?21:11
dhellmannnijaba: ah, good point21:11
dhellmannI will see if I can figure out a way to do that21:11
yjiang5nijaba: why do we want to keep 0.1 doc, if we have v1 api back compatibility?21:11
nijabayjiang5: because we have people deloying it21:12
dhellmannyjiang5: there are some developer details in the docs that have changed, too21:12
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yjiang5nijaba: dhellmann: got it.21:12
dhellmannI think I can make that work by using a branch in my private github repo21:12
dhellmannI think that's it for past actions, on to new business21:13
dhellmann#topic Discuss v2 API proposal21:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss v2 API proposal (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:13
dhellmannI think this is a combination of the pecan/wsme stuff and asalkeld's desire to tighten up the api urls21:13
dhellmann(and mine)21:13
jd__yeah, I've added this to the agenda because I didn't see much trace of what v2 API should look like21:13
jd__I assume you mimic-ed the v1 URL scheme, but I didn't have the chance to review your work :p21:14
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jd__anyway I had the feeling we could improve and change a lot of thing in v221:14
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* nijaba concurs to the need of a bp21:14
dhellmannI've been working on documentation for the v2 api, and I do have to say it's a bit odd to have a bunch of urls that return the same thing with different filters21:14
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asalkeldjd__, I was hoping we could flatten the api21:14
dhellmanndoes anyone think we should *not* make any api changes?21:14
dhellmannassuming we get a blueprint together quickly21:15
jd__asalkeld: I was thinking the same actually21:15
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jd__dhellmann: it's v2, we can do anything! :)21:15
asalkeldso like: /meters /resources /samples21:15
dhellmannalthough I would be inclined to give this blueprint an extension on our approval deadline if we needed to. I think it's important enought.21:15
asalkeldsomething like that21:15
nijabadhellmann: +1 for an extension, as long as we start it sooner than later21:16
jd__dhellmann: makes sense, especially now that the code is merged :)21:16
dhellmannasalkeld: do you have enough info to put together a concrete proposal?21:16
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dhellmannor do you need more details about how wsme parses queries21:16
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* dhellmann hopes it wasn't something he said21:17
nijabaasalkeld: trying to avoid embarrassing questions? ;)21:17
asalkeldI can put something together21:17
asalkeld== disconnect21:17
dhellmannasalkeld: action?21:18
dhellmann#action asalkeld prepare a blueprint for v2 api "tightening" changes21:18
asalkeldfaster typer21:18
dhellmannlet me know if I can help with wsme questions21:18
dhellmannhis docs are a little thin, I need to help him expand on those21:18
asalkeldsure, probably the query21:18
asalkeldand your usecases21:19
nijabadhellmann: yeah, can we get rif of the [] in the query ?21:19
dhellmannnijaba: I'll have to see. I think that's how wsme makes arrays of objects21:19
dhellmannI haven't had a chance to experiment, yet21:19
nijabadhellmann: k21:19
dhellmann#action dhellmann experiment with passing arrays of parameters to wsme for queries21:20
dhellmannok, anything else on this topic?21:20
jd__good for me21:20
jd__i'll wait for asalkeld bp :)21:20
asalkeldI'll do it today21:20
dhellmannsounds good21:20
dhellmannok, next up21:20
dhellmann#topic Mechanics of getting synaps on-board21:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Mechanics of getting synaps on-board (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:21
eglynnso the approach I suggested on the ML ...21:21
eglynn(big-bang import of the code prior to clean-up tasks, manual migration of launchpad issues)21:21
eglynntoo simplistic, or?21:21
eglynn... or just simplistic enough ;)21:21
eglynnI don't know enough about git submodules/subtrees21:21
jd__hm at first glance I'm not in favor of importing a lot of code that way21:21
eglynnbut I'm hoping it can be done in a straight-forward history preserving way21:21
dhellmanneglynn: I haven't checked for a reply to my question about doing cleanup before vs. after importing21:21
jd__I'd rather have a cherry-picking-surgeon approach21:21
eglynnjd__: OK, I'll assess the code to see if that's feasible21:22
yjiang5eglynn: I rememner they have even java code?21:22
* eglynn was just eager to get it in there ...21:22
nijabait would be nice to have a meeting with them present to discuss this, no?21:22
jd__eglynn: would be great to pick code we'd need and put it into our various ceilometer components (or create new ones)21:22
eglynnyjiang5: yep, there's a small amount of Java code to define the strom topology21:22
asalkeldelse it is just a code dump21:22
eglynnyjiang5: (as opposed to functional code)21:22
yjiang5eglynn: ok, just curios how to import that code :)21:23
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asalkeldhow about:21:23
eglynnnijaba: I'll prod them to get on the ML to discuss at least21:23
asalkeldwe commit the post/get21:23
asalkeldthen the alarm21:23
asalkeldso we get _some_ seperation21:23
eglynnasalkeld: what's the post/get? their impl of PutMetricData/GetMetricStats21:24
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asalkeldbasically the monitoring21:24
asalkeldthen the alarms21:24
asalkeldI am keen to have an option to have a different alarm system21:25
eglynnasalkeld: by the alarms, do you mean the alarm evaluation logic in Synaps?21:25
jd__commiting inside ceilometer itself or as a side-project inside ceilometer repo? because that sounds 2 different options to me21:25
asalkeldeglynn, ya21:25
jd__and not sure what we're talking about here21:25
dhellmannasalkeld: that order and separation makes sense to me21:25
asalkeldO, haven't read ml21:25
dhellmannbut yeah, where is it going in our repo?21:25
asalkeldassume in code base21:25
eglynnunder ceilo/monitoring or something of that ilk21:26
asalkeldso where else we putting it21:26
eglynnor ceilo/synaps even ...21:26
yjiang5jd__: as a side-project possibly tricky to manage?21:26
jd__ok, that sounds fine to me, I'd dislike having a side project I think21:26
* eglynn is not sure what a side project is ...21:26
asalkeldso put the api under api/21:26
jd__eglynn: another project in another subdirectory… :)21:26
asalkeldand the alarming under alarm21:26
asalkeldseems simple to me21:27
dhellmannthat makes sense21:27
dhellmannthis seems like something we need a blueprint for, to map out all of these details in an easy to review form21:27
eglynnjd__: like a git submodule/subtree? or just a seperate dir?21:27
dhellmannyeah, no submodules21:27
asalkeldmore complexity21:27
eglynnasalkeld: dir, just in the sense of a plain ol' directory21:28
yjiang5eglynn: what's the target schedule for this merge? In G? H?21:28
asalkeldI recon21:28
dhellmannasalkeld: the cw api should be part of v2, no?21:28
dhellmannwe'll have to version it as it changes21:28
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asalkeldno it's aws21:28
eglynnyjiang5: late G21:28
asalkeldit has it's own versioning21:29
eglynndate based21:29
dhellmannwhat tool did they use to build it?21:29
eglynnbut we'll have a native API eventually too right21:29
dhellmannthe native api will go under our versioned tree?21:29
jd__why not?21:29
eglynndhellmann: yes I'd expect so21:29
yjiang5dhellmann: but user will assume aws version still, so a map from our version to aws version?21:30
dhellmannso, who is going to pull all of this together into a blueprint?21:30
eglynnwe don't want to get in the nova API extensions versioning fragmentation21:30
eglynnI can do that21:30
eglynnbut would appreciate input on the ML thread21:30
dhellmann#action eglynn prepare a blueprint for synaps integration21:30
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dhellmannI presume part of this will be giving some of the synaps team +2 rights for reviewing our changes to their code?21:30
eglynnyes I think so21:31
yjiang5dhellmann: agree.21:31
dhellmannif that is the case, we need a commitment of responsiveness, I think?21:31
eglynn(but not structured as a veto on everything)21:31
asalkeldyes: " commitment of responsiveness"21:32
eglynnyes, I'm going to prod them again to get some clarity on that21:32
asalkeldwell other approach21:32
dhellmannI think we should hold off on any code work until we have the team aspects of the integration worked out21:32
eglynnmakes sense21:32
asalkeldis to let them get involved as they want to21:33
dhellmannalthough design discussions should proceed, to avoid holding us up later?21:33
asalkeldand we make changes as we see fit21:33
dhellmannasalkeld: if they say they don't want +2, that's ok, but I don't think we should take the code without offering21:33
dhellmannseems, I don't know, rude21:33
eglynnrudeness is not our style ;)21:33
asalkeldwell maybe a suggestion of expections21:34
dhellmannso the commitment is just if they say yes to wanting +2, just like for any other team -- you have to contribute to keep it21:34
dhellmannasalkeld: right21:34
asalkeldlike come to irc meetings?21:34
dhellmannthat would be good, if we can work out the timing21:35
dhellmannthey're in asia somewhere, right?21:35
jd__would make sense21:35
jd__Korea I imagine21:35
eglynnyep, this slot is better than the alternate Euro-friendly one21:35
eglynnso maye every other week would be acceptable21:35
dhellmannsure, and not necessarily all of them if they want to appoint a representative or something21:36
* jd__ is sleeping on his keyboard and don't get what eglynn is talking about21:36
eglynnjust meant that they may not be able to make the Thurdsday afternoon GMT slot21:36
dhellmannI'm not trying to stress the participation, but it feels like stealing to bring their code in without involving them.21:36
jd__eglynn: I was kidding :)21:37
asalkeldit's opensource, no such thing as stealing21:37
dhellmannso, mordred also brought up healthnmon moving to stackforge on the mailing list21:37
* eglynn is slow on the up-take at this hour ;)21:37
yjiang5dhellmann: why can't firstly work with two project, and comunicate with RPC?21:37
dhellmannyjiang5: that would be another approach, but I think we felt there would be a lot of benefits to sharing actual code21:37
dhellmannhi, mordred21:38
eglynnyjiang5: RPC or REST API?21:38
eglynnyjiang5: REST makes more sense to me, as opposed to AMQP ...21:38
yjiang5eglynn: either way is ok, synaps support AMQP IIRC.21:38
dhellmanneither, but let's finish exploring the code merge path before we give up and go back to two projects21:38
yjiang5dhellmann: sure21:39
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dhellmannok, so healthnmon -- we looked at this a couple of weeks ago, didn't we?21:39
asalkeldbut they are super quite21:39
asalkeldmaybe we can email them directly21:39
dhellmannapparently they are working with mordred to get stackforge access21:39
mordredyeah - I believe they want to work on this in the open and stuff21:40
eglynnthey were vocal at the summit, but haven't heard anything much since21:40
mordredjust gotta get them bootstrapped I think21:40
eglynncool enough21:40
dhellmannI can't find my notes from that meeting.21:40
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dhellmanndid we agree that monitoring at that level was going to wait for another release?21:41
asalkelddhellmann, they are at a bunch of levels21:41
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asalkeldtrace + inventory21:41
asalkeldand some alarms21:42
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asalkeldso seems like somewhat of an overlap21:42
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asalkeldI have go and take kids to school21:43
asalkeldlater ...21:43
eglynnso one think that wasn't fully clear to me at the summit was how much they'd actually built-out21:43
dhellmannok, so I'm trying to remember why we approached synaps instead of healthnmon. was it just activity on the mailing list?21:43
eglynnheathnmon wasn't opensourced at the time21:44
eglynn(they just released RPMs initially)21:44
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eglynnthen later pushed the code up tot github (whithout any fan-fare)21:44
dhellmannso, is it worth approaching them now?21:44
* nijaba has to get off the train before it goes back to london...21:45
dhellmanneglynn: is that an action for you again?21:45
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dhellmannyou have the most practice… ;-)21:45
eglynnsure ;)21:45
yjiang5dhellmann: I can also have a look on it21:45
eglynn#action eglynn reach out to healthnmon project21:45
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yjiang5dhellmann: our team is quite intrersting in host monitor, which is a bit overlap with healmon21:46
eglynnyjiang5: cool21:46
eglynnabout the build-out completeness, IIRC their architecture included all manner of integration points with other monitoring frameworks21:46
eglynnnagios, ganglia etc21:46
dhellmannyjiang5: good, you and eglynn can take that together21:46
yjiang5dhellmann: sure.21:46
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dhellmanneglynn: yeah, I remember a very complex diagram21:46
eglynnwasn't clear though wether that was aspirational as yet ...21:46
dhellmannanything else on this?21:47
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dhellmann#topic Open discussion21:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:48
eglynnyep, that's a big ol' diagram all right ;)21:48
dhellmannI will update the wiki, but I wanted to mention that I'll be out for the next 2 meetings due to travel21:49
jd__I heard about that21:49
dhellmannand I'll be offline entirely from 12/8-12/1921:49
dhellmannwell, almost entirely21:49
eglynnI may have a conflict next week as well21:49
jd__Jenkins has submitted this change and it was merged.21:49
jd__Change subject: Add python-ceilometerclient21:49
dhellmannoh, I've been given permission to open source the DUDE, so after my break I'll start working on adding that to the client library as an example app21:51
dhellmannok, we're close to the end of our time slot. any other announcements or topics?21:52
eglynnso the DUDE is the dreamhost billing engine, right?21:52
dhellmannDUDE is the tool that exports data from ceilometer into our billing system21:52
dhellmannDreamhost Usage Data Exporter21:52
eglynna-ha, nice acronym ;)21:52
* dhellmann was feeling inspired that day21:53
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dhellmannif there's nothing else, we can close up a couple of minutes early...21:53
dhellmannok, thanks everyone!21:54
eglynnsounds good, 'night folks ...21:54
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"21:54
openstackMeeting ended Wed Dec  5 21:54:57 2012 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:55
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