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| fifieldt | hi Daisy_ | 12:56 |
|---|---|---|
| fifieldt | hi Guest99428 | 12:56 |
| fifieldt | hi koolhead17 | 12:56 |
| koolhead17 | fifieldt: hi there | 12:57 |
| fifieldt | how'd life? ready for another excellent docmeeting? :) | 12:58 |
| * fifieldt looks at clock | 13:00 | |
| Daisy_ | Hi, Tom ! | 13:02 |
| fifieldt | hi! | 13:02 |
| fifieldt | How are you? | 13:02 |
| Daisy_ | I'm fine, just back from a vacation. | 13:02 |
| fifieldt | oh, cool | 13:02 |
| fifieldt | relaxing? | 13:02 |
| Daisy_ | yes, the new years holidays in China. | 13:03 |
| fifieldt | two new years for you - lucky :) | 13:03 |
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| fifieldt | We need Anne to start the meeting :) | 13:05 |
| Daisy_ | That may be too early for her. | 13:08 |
| fifieldt | yeah, it is quite early | 13:08 |
| fifieldt | is there anything you wanted to discuss while we wait? | 13:10 |
| Daisy_ | not exactly | 13:11 |
| fifieldt | oh well | 13:13 |
| * fifieldt keeps waiting | 13:13 | |
| fifieldt | I'm keen to hear what's happening with the wiki | 13:13 |
| Daisy_ | Maybe we set the meeting time one hour later. | 13:16 |
| Daisy_ | next time. | 13:16 |
| Daisy_ | Now I'm 9pm and I'm OK with 10pm. How about you? Is it too late for you? | 13:16 |
| fifieldt | that'd be 1am for me ... I'll try to stay up :) | 13:18 |
| Daisy_ | oh..that's bad. | 13:18 |
| EmilienM__ | koolhead17: hey | 13:18 |
| fifieldt | it's EmilienM__! | 13:19 |
| koolhead17 | EmilienM__: did you get my last chat | 13:19 |
| Daisy_ | that's not a good time for you. | 13:19 |
| EmilienM__ | koolhead17: yep, I'll answer later ;) | 13:19 |
| EmilienM__ | fifieldt: :) | 13:19 |
| koolhead17 | EmilienM__: was going through it i wonder if i missed something :P | 13:19 |
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| fifieldt | hi annegentle-web | 13:39 |
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| annegentle-web | \o/ | 13:39 |
| annegentle-web | hi fifieldt sorry to be soooo late | 13:39 |
| annegentle-web | no excuses | 13:39 |
| fifieldt | no worries - if it was me, I'd still be asleep too :P | 13:40 |
| annegentle-web | :) | 13:40 |
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| annegentle-web | the scary part was when even the web client wouldn't let me in | 13:40 |
| * annegentle-web sighs and mumbles about technology | 13:40 | |
| fifieldt | ouch | 13:40 |
| fifieldt | yes, computers | 13:40 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: let's keep going, where are you at in the agenda? | 13:40 |
| fifieldt | we waited :) | 13:41 |
| fifieldt | so, over to you to #startmeeting DocWebTeam | 13:41 |
| annegentle-web | hee | 13:42 |
| fifieldt | Daisy_, koolhead17, EmilienM__ are around | 13:42 |
| annegentle-web | #startmeeting docwebteam | 13:42 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 8 13:42:09 2013 UTC. The chair is annegentle-web. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:42 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docwebteam)" | 13:42 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docwebteam' | 13:42 |
| annegentle-web | woo! I need to remember to be consistent so the eavesdrop directories line up | 13:42 |
| annegentle-web | Let's review action items | 13:42 |
| fifieldt | #info http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting | 13:42 |
| EmilienM__ | hello :) | 13:42 |
| fifieldt | (nb - we forgot to use #action for action items last time) | 13:42 |
| annegentle-web | EmilienM__: hello! | 13:43 |
| fifieldt | 13:04:18 * annegentle_ Anne to ask CI team if there's notification capability with a patch with DocImpact actually merges | 13:43 |
| annegentle-web | Looks like the one with #action was for me to write a proposal to Foundation requesting funding of Doc Sprint in Feb 2013 including Adam Hyde as facilitator | 13:43 |
| fifieldt | sorry | 13:43 |
| fifieldt | I am reading the previous previous meeting's action items | 13:43 |
| fifieldt | please ignore me | 13:43 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: hee | 13:43 |
| annegentle-web | no worries | 13:43 |
| annegentle-web | so the proposal was written and funded, woo! | 13:43 |
| fifieldt | congratulatons | 13:43 |
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| Daisy_ | great ! Do you have a link for that proposal? | 13:44 |
| fifieldt | for my part I also sent the thank-you email re: docimpact | 13:44 |
| annegentle-web | I've been following up with the group and will keep working on travel and lodging arrangements | 13:44 |
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| fifieldt | looking forward to that | 13:44 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: it was in email but I could certainly put it into a etherpad | 13:44 |
| annegentle-web | #action annegentle-web to share the proposal for the book sprint | 13:44 |
| annegentle-web | maybe even blog about it? Not sure. | 13:45 |
| annegentle-web | Oh yeah usually I point to the agenda | 13:45 |
| annegentle-web | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting | 13:45 |
| fifieldt | might raise expectations too much :) | 13:45 |
| annegentle-web | #topic Action items | 13:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items (Meeting topic: docwebteam)" | 13:45 | |
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| fifieldt | hi lorin1! | 13:46 |
| annegentle-web | I think that's it for action items, I did send out a status report last week | 13:46 |
| fifieldt | got it, yup | 13:46 |
| annegentle-web | #link https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg19757.html | 13:46 |
| lorin1 | hi fifieldt | 13:46 |
| annegentle-web | Let's talk about the wiki migration briefly. | 13:47 |
| annegentle-web | #topic wiki migration | 13:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "wiki migration (Meeting topic: docwebteam)" | 13:47 | |
| fifieldt | so, what's going on?> | 13:47 |
| annegentle-web | I say briefly because I know little about the latest :) | 13:47 |
| fifieldt | ah :) | 13:47 |
| annegentle-web | I understand that Stefano (reed) is going to work with a team going forward | 13:47 |
| reed | ? | 13:48 |
| annegentle-web | reed: did I hear that right on IRC yesterday? | 13:48 |
| annegentle-web | heh, hear. :) | 13:48 |
| reed | wiki migration? | 13:48 |
| annegentle-web | reed: moving to mediawiki | 13:48 |
| reed | I know nothing about that, sorry | 13:48 |
| annegentle-web | reed: wow, sorry, don't want to invent responsibilities :) | 13:49 |
| annegentle-web | so all I know is I have an email in to Ryan Lane to see if he found someone to work on the styling | 13:49 |
| reed | I've mentioned working on wikiPedia page about openstack | 13:49 |
| annegentle-web | reed: oh that was it!! Sorry. | 13:49 |
| reed | :) | 13:49 |
| annegentle-web | my current sense of the mailing list posts is that people wanted it cleaner in the beginning | 13:50 |
| annegentle-web | and we need a plan to get it clean | 13:50 |
| annegentle-web | styling, content, macros, etc. | 13:50 |
| annegentle-web | any other comments on the wiki migration? | 13:50 |
| Daisy_ | who will do the wiki migration? doc team? | 13:50 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: Ryan Lane at Mediawiki already did it and has the scripts, and the CI team has puppet-ized the install | 13:50 |
| fifieldt | umm, content | 13:51 |
| reed | the technical part of the migration will be done by ryan and the infra team | 13:51 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: so really it's more about CI than docs since we don't use the wiki for docs really | 13:51 |
| reed | the content will have to be reviewed/fixed by all of us | 13:51 |
| annegentle-web | to me, the wiki is for project management | 13:51 |
| fifieldt | I've been wandering through http://wiki.openstack.org/TitleIndex | 13:51 |
| annegentle-web | reed: yep, exactly | 13:51 |
| fifieldt | and removing crap | 13:51 |
| fifieldt | is this a good time to do that? | 13:51 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: GOOD | 13:51 |
| Daisy_ | so if migrating the existing content, why need a plan to get it clean? | 13:51 |
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| annegentle-web | Daisy_: because https://wiki-staging.openstack.org/wiki/Main_Page is not very pretty | 13:51 |
| annegentle-web | #link https://wiki-staging.openstack.org/wiki/Main_Page | 13:52 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: well, the content migration happend the 3rd week of Dec, so deleting pages on the wiki now would have to be redone if I understand it | 13:52 |
| fifieldt | ah | 13:52 |
| fifieldt | that's not good | 13:52 |
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| fifieldt | I just did A through C | 13:52 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: wah. | 13:52 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: but needed. | 13:53 |
| Daisy_ | oh. the main page looks ugly. | 13:53 |
| fifieldt | I didn't think there was consensus yet on the content migration | 13:53 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: yeah and migrated content esp. tables and graphics need cleanup | 13:53 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: ah okay | 13:53 |
| fifieldt | there was still some debate about the interim period of nonediting | 13:53 |
| fifieldt | certainly I'm not the only one editing the wiki | 13:53 |
| Daisy_ | does Doc team own the clean job? | 13:53 |
| fifieldt | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/RecentChanges | 13:54 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: I don't think so, and I'm not raising my hand :) | 13:54 |
| fifieldt | so I would say content migration needs to be redone | 13:54 |
| annegentle-web | but, perhaps we could organize the day of cleanup | 13:54 |
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| annegentle-web | I say "we" meaning "me" most likely | 13:54 |
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| annegentle-web | gah the nickname crazies! | 13:54 |
| annegentle-web | #action annegentle-web to investigate wiki migration status | 13:54 |
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| annegentle-web | okay, good on wiki? | 13:55 |
| Daisy_ | at least, we need to make sure the content about documentations are correct and right there. | 13:55 |
| fifieldt | clarity is good | 13:55 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: yep, I did ensure that was okay, but more eyes the better always | 13:55 |
| Daisy_ | ok | 13:55 |
| fifieldt | anne - when you get the info, perhaps email it out | 13:56 |
| annegentle-web | For example, this page is correct: http://wiki.openstack.org/Documentation/ | 13:56 |
| fifieldt | it seems there is confusion | 13:56 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: yeah I need to circle back to the mailing list for certain | 13:56 |
| annegentle-web | #topic doc tools update | 13:56 |
| fifieldt | ta | 13:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "doc tools update (Meeting topic: docwebteam)" | 13:56 | |
| annegentle-web | So I have a giant email ready to send to openstack-docs about what it takes to get to 1.6.2 of the Maven plugin | 13:56 |
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| annegentle-web | Basically I've been investigating and testing | 13:56 |
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| annegentle-web | the difficulty is that we need to change doc jobs in the CI project at the same time we merge these pom.xml changes | 13:57 |
| annegentle-web | it's not impossible, just need to be careful and plan | 13:57 |
| fifieldt | yay, coordination | 13:57 |
| annegentle-web | hee | 13:57 |
| annegentle-web | I'll send that this morning so you all can review and ask questions | 13:57 |
| Daisy_ | ok. | 13:58 |
| annegentle-web | #topic open discussion | 13:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: docwebteam)" | 13:58 | |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: do you want to talk about translation? | 13:58 |
| fifieldt | want to make an action item for the last point, anne? | 13:58 |
| fifieldt | i.e. send the email for all to review | 13:58 |
| fifieldt | just for completeness | 13:58 |
| fifieldt | :) | 13:58 |
| Daisy_ | yeah. | 13:58 |
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| Daisy_ | Firstly, I'd like to talk about the review in Transifex. | 13:59 |
| Daisy_ | The review check box doesn't appear to common translators. | 13:59 |
| Daisy_ | so translators cannot do the review. The only review can be done when it is merged into the main repository, which is not good. | 14:00 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: yep been seeing that on the mail thread | 14:00 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: So the centralized translation coordinator isn't quite right? | 14:01 |
| Daisy_ | so the problem is if we want to use Transfifex to do the review, we need to manage the long list of coordinators. | 14:01 |
| Daisy_ | Right. | 14:01 |
| fifieldt | is it possible to nominate a 'leader' per language, and that 'leader' can manage the list of people for that language? | 14:02 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: I think that is one idea floating around | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | coolo | 14:02 |
| fifieldt | I'm just not sure what kind of role management is possible within transifex | 14:02 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: so you sense the translators feel more "loyalty" and get more "points" in the transifex system than in review.openstack.org (Gerrit) (That's my sense of it.) | 14:02 |
| Daisy_ | I only see project maintainer and coordinators. | 14:03 |
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| Daisy_ | project maintainer, coordinators, and translators., | 14:03 |
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| Daisy_ | I just feel review in Transifex is more easy than in Gerrit for a reviewer. | 14:04 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: so I like the proposed idea that translators could act as "project technical leads" do | 14:04 |
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| annegentle-web | Daisy_: yeah I think that's right also, that Transifex is their preferred review mechanism | 14:04 |
| Daisy_ | Yes, if we regard translators as "project technical lead", they can review by Gerrit then. | 14:05 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: what about this: could you write up what the role of a lead translator would be? And what permissions they'd need where? | 14:05 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: perhaps then we can "recruit" for that role? For example, from the User Groups | 14:05 |
| Daisy_ | ok, sure. | 14:05 |
| Daisy_ | great idea ! | 14:05 |
| annegentle-web | reed: any thoughts on translation coordination? | 14:06 |
| Daisy_ | Let's recruit.. after the infrastucture is ready. | 14:06 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: yeah I think that's right also... timing matters. | 14:06 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: ok, thanks! Also do you need more CI help? | 14:06 |
| Daisy_ | not now, I think. | 14:07 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: ok | 14:07 |
| Daisy_ | I need to do ... | 14:07 |
| Daisy_ | #action Daisy write up what the role of a lead translator would be? And what permissions they'd need where? | 14:07 |
| Daisy_ | firstly. | 14:07 |
| annegentle-web | Daisy_: yep, sounds right | 14:07 |
| Daisy_ | then let's see what help we need from CI team. | 14:07 |
| annegentle-web | EmilienM__: what are your thoughts on the barrage of comments on the basic install? | 14:07 |
| reed | annegentle-web, I'd love to but it's not clear to me what the problem is | 14:07 |
| annegentle-web | reed: okay, I'll send you a LONG email thread :) | 14:08 |
| * EmilienM__ reading comments | 14:08 | |
| reed | annegentle-web, private or on the list? | 14:09 |
| annegentle-web | EmilienM__: basically "Thiago" never did get it set up? I guess? | 14:09 |
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| annegentle-web | reed: to your stefano@openstack email | 14:09 |
| EmilienM__ | annegentle-web: indeed | 14:10 |
| annegentle-web | EmilienM__: I tried to respond to Thiago as much as I could but he didn't really explain his setup | 14:10 |
| EmilienM__ | annegentle-web: I'll work on that later toay. | 14:10 |
| annegentle-web | EmilienM__: that would be great, thanks | 14:10 |
| EmilienM__ | annegentle-web: we definitly need more review on this work, and I'll do my best to improve it, with the help of other guys | 14:11 |
| annegentle-web | EmilienM__: I never figured out whether there are ubuntu bugs that prevent him | 14:11 |
| annegentle-web | EmilienM__: my concern was that this "blew up" right after you added Quantum -- maybe Quantum isn't basic :) | 14:11 |
| EmilienM__ | ahah | 14:11 |
| EmilienM__ | nothing is basic, actually | 14:11 |
| koolhead17 | EmilienM__: 3 node setup cannot be basic :) | 14:11 |
| annegentle-web | EmilienM__: Heh | 14:11 |
| annegentle-web | Well, maybe we need to revisit "Basic" | 14:11 |
| annegentle-web | Such as -- if there is no such thing as Basic, do we even claim there to be | 14:12 |
| koolhead17 | its called multinode :D | 14:12 |
| EmilienM__ | believe me, it's nothing comparing to production ;) | 14:12 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: I'm not sure if you're moderator on the basic install comments, can I add you? | 14:12 |
| fifieldt | sure | 14:13 |
| EmilienM__ | #action EmilienM to reply to comments & fix bugs if they exist. | 14:13 |
| EmilienM__ | annegentle-web: ok for you ? | 14:13 |
| fifieldt | I haven't been online much these few weeks - internet at folks place is iffy - apologies | 14:13 |
| annegentle-web | #info Our new intern starts this week, Laura Alves da Quinta (ladquin on IRC) from Buenos Aires, Argentina | 14:13 |
| fifieldt | [plus, there's a beach here :)] | 14:13 |
| fifieldt | wow, cool! | 14:13 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: hee | 14:13 |
| annegentle-web | Wish she was here this morning! I didn't tell her about it, shoot. | 14:14 |
| annegentle-web | So welcome her if you see her online. | 14:14 |
| annegentle-web | And if it's okay with you all, I'll have her ask you questions if she gets stuck. | 14:14 |
| annegentle-web | Her focus will be API docs and she's already patching. | 14:14 |
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| fifieldt | great :) | 14:15 |
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| annegentle-web | Okay, w'ere over time due to the late start, my apologies. | 14:15 |
| annegentle-web | Anything else? | 14:15 |
| fifieldt | oh | 14:16 |
| fifieldt | one more | 14:16 |
| fifieldt | I think I'm going to start fixing grizzly bugs now | 14:16 |
| fifieldt | the ones which are confirmed on launchpad seem stable enough | 14:16 |
| fifieldt | to write them in | 14:16 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: ok, feeling like the code is going in? | 14:16 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: GREAT | 14:16 |
| fifieldt | yup | 14:16 |
| annegentle-web | fifieldt: go for it | 14:16 |
| lorin1 | I've been adding the person who submitted the commit to the reviewers in the DocImpact-related doc stuff. | 14:17 |
| lorin1 | They are usually pretty good about giving feedback. | 14:17 |
| annegentle-web | lorin1: good thinking | 14:17 |
| annegentle-web | lorin1: yeah approve that one for config drive | 14:18 |
| fifieldt | nice one | 14:18 |
| annegentle-web | Okay, see you all around on IRC I sure hope. :) | 14:18 |
| annegentle-web | #endmeeting | 14:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 14:18 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 8 14:18:32 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:18 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docwebteam/2013/docwebteam.2013-01-08-13.42.html | 14:18 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docwebteam/2013/docwebteam.2013-01-08-13.42.txt | 14:18 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docwebteam/2013/docwebteam.2013-01-08-13.42.log.html | 14:18 |
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| * fifieldt zzz | 14:19 | |
| * annegentle-web drives to work :) | 14:19 | |
| * EmilienM__ thinking at a new word (basic) | 14:19 | |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 15:58 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 8 15:58:55 2013 UTC. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:58 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 15:58 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 15:58 |
| primeministerp | hi all | 15:59 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: pedro's not going to be able to make it today right? | 15:59 |
| alexpilotti | hi! | 15:59 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: do we have any others? | 16:00 |
| alexpilotti | yep, pnavarro said that today he'll not be able to attend unfortunately | 16:00 |
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| primeministerp | and I don't see the CERN folks | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | guess this will be quick then | 16:00 |
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| alexpilotti | I guess too :-) | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | hanrahat: hi tom | 16:01 |
| luis_fdez | hi primeministerp | 16:01 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: hi luis | 16:01 |
| alexpilotti | Not a bad think considering that I have to send the Quantum review | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: glad you made it | 16:01 |
| hanrahat | primeministerp: hi | 16:01 |
| luis_fdez | my first day after holidays break... | 16:01 |
| alexpilotti | hi luis_fdez ! | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: great | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: hopefully you had a good one! | 16:01 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: sure there's lots of email to catch up on | 16:01 |
| primeministerp | ok let's begin | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | #topic quantum | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "quantum (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:02 | |
| luis_fdez | primeministerp: lots of email yes... | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: you've been working like crazy on this so I'll let you have the floor | 16:02 |
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| alexpilotti | great tx. | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: would you care to share the current state of the hyper-v vlan driver etc | 16:02 |
| alexpilotti | So, habemus pluginus. :-) | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | hehe | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | It's in the process of getting merged | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | meaning that it's undergoing the usual microscopic review | 16:03 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: as expected | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | as bad as it was for Nova last year :-) | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | which is good, as I like that they care about the code quality | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: that is good | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | they asked to keep it as simple as possible | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | which means that this first release is going to be VLAN only | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | I didn't push to have it in G-2 at any cost | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: are you ready to test quantum bits on your side luis_fdez? | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | as due to this crazy G-2 scheduling the Quantum team has a lot of high priority stuff to review | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | and it was pointless to force them to do it now, resulting in a sure refusal | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: the short cycle w/ the holidays didn't help matters | 16:05 |
| luis_fdez | primeministerp: yeah, let me some days catching up with other things and I'll try it | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | yep, that was the main issue | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: perfect | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | anyway, this are going very well I'd say, we need testers as usual :-) | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | luis_fdez: do you volunteer? ;-) | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: he just did --------^ | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | hehe | 16:06 |
| luis_fdez | alexpilotti: i'll do my best hehe | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | any of our IBM friends on the channel | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | cool! I as busy writing and didn't see it! lol | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | tx luis_fdez. Your beers credit (and your karma) will benefit! | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | hopefully we can get them to take a look too | 16:07 |
| luis_fdez | alexpilotti: a recommended testing environment? | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: hyper-v server 2012 | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: devstack | 16:08 |
| luis_fdez | ok, perfect then | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | 2 devstack nodes and 1-2 HyperV 2012 | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | I usually run all the stuff in VMs (including the HyperVs) | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | 1 devstack: controller | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | 2 devstack: networking | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | 2 is needed for layer 3 tests only | 16:09 |
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| primeministerp | ok | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | shall we discuss RDP | 16:10 |
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| primeministerp | ahh | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | why not | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | tom left | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | was hoping to ask him the status of email request | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | for help on the custom ssp provider | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | o well | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | #topic RDP | 16:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RDP (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:10 | |
| primeministerp | So I pushed on the custon SSP provider questioin with Neil internally | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: I sent you the response | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: I'm going to followup with him today | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: didnt get it | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: you did, you responded | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | ah, that one | 16:12 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: that it was the information you had already looked at | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: is there anything additional i should request? | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | yeah, we need access to more than that | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | no, for SSH is everything clear IMO | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | the RDP part is crucial now | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: right but for the custom provider, do we still need assistance from msft internal? | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | yep | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | isn't the custom provider needed for RDP | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | we need a decent sample | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | perfect | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | no the custom SSP is needed for SSH only | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | ahh | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | I thought the custom ssp was to use ssh keys for rdp auth | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | then what is needed for rdp? | 16:14 |
| alexpilotti | yep, but not RDP as in clnsole RDP | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | gotcha | 16:14 |
| alexpilotti | we need to have FreeRDP connecting reliabily to the HyperV console | 16:14 |
| alexpilotti | and the latest version is not | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | do you have additonal questions for console rdp, which I need involve others? | 16:14 |
| alexpilotti | not for now, as it is all fairly well documented | 16:15 |
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| alexpilotti | but based on the FreeRDP work it might become necessary | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | make sure you alert me asap if something comes up so I can push for help internally | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | sure, tx! | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: ping | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | now the project is still in an early stage | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: ok | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: anything else to add? | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | on RDP | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | we are working on the HTML5 gateway | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: o perfect | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | unfortunately the guy who did the project is not mantaining it | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: html5 -> rdp? | 16:17 |
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| alexpilotti | which means that we are refactoring it to support the latest FreeRDP version | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | yes, that one | 16:17 |
| ociuhandu | hi all, sorry for being late, just got back and was reading | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | perfecto | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: TAVI! | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: glad you could join, I was just going to start picking on you | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:18 |
| ociuhandu | :) | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | anything else on rdp? | 16:18 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: was actually catching up with the things you talked on until now | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: no owwories | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | er worries | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | so on that note | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | #topic ci | 16:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ci (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:19 | |
| primeministerp | as usual the battle for more resources continues | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | currently working on getting more bandwidth for the pipe | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: to resolve your connectivity issues | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: I'm pushing for 50mb minimum | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: if they give me a green light I can prob have it w/in 2 weeks | 16:20 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: i'm gong to create a pxe'd VM today to start testing all the scripts i've been writing | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: perfect | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: everything is pretty much updated | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: I'll be adding the hostname bits after this meeting | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: hoping to get back to the windows parts by end of week | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: i'll be here all day as well so let me know if you have any issues | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: I can be in the DC to assist | 16:21 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: great, thanks | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: on that note with recent events regarding testing and such, this is becoming more and more critical | 16:22 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: will let you know how it goes | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: right now there's a menu in palce | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: i can hard set it for your mac | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | if needed | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | but use the vm preseed | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | when you deploy | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | it will do a clean install then 2 reboots after running the scripting | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | one after install and one after puppet | 16:23 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: ok | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | still need to get in touch w/ mordred to discuss the integration into the ci | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: however the delays w/ my move and holidays put us back a bit | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: hopefully we'll be back on track and having the first ring up by next week | 16:25 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: i was working on the scripts locally so we have made progress | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: have you completed your puppet bits? | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: which ones? | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: you've made progress | 16:26 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: for the controller and for creating a new VM | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | i've made a few baby steps | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: ok hopefully i can finish catching up this week | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: have you puppetized your hyper-v bits? | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: are you using the cloudbase installer or installing from source? | 16:27 |
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| luis_fdez | no primeministerp, we don't have hyper-v puppetized... | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: perfect then | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: hopefully you can use some of our efforts | 16:27 |
| luis_fdez | the rest (controller, kvm nodes are puppetized) | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: ociuhandu did a great job refactoring my original bits | 16:28 |
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| primeministerp | hanrahat: ping | 16:28 |
| luis_fdez | yeah, one of the next steps should be to try to mix your puppet bits with the structure used here | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | hanrahat: glad your back, is there any response on the custom ssp help? | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: ^^ | 16:29 |
| luis_fdez | I think your work could reduce my headaches hehe | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: defaintely | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: would you like to start an email thread to discuss further? | 16:29 |
| luis_fdez | primeministerp: the last puppet bits are still on you github? or ociuhandu has other? | 16:30 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: there is entirely new ones | 16:30 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: i'll have to get cleared to share | 16:30 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: hence the email discussion | 16:30 |
| ociuhandu | luis_fdez: your puppet scripts for the controller use the latest git or install the stable release from the repos? | 16:30 |
| luis_fdez | ociuhandu: our current system is an essex environment with some patchs to adapt to CERN.... we're starting a new one based on Folsom on February | 16:32 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: great | 16:32 |
| ociuhandu | luis_fdez: ok, great | 16:32 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: i'm assuming that's when the hyper-v integration will begin as well? | 16:33 |
| luis_fdez | yeah primeministerp, we hope an important boost on HyperV hypervisors for the next version | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: please let jan and tim know i'm here to help in any way possible | 16:33 |
| luis_fdez | ok, I'll let them know! thanks | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | anything else anyone would like to add | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | hanrahat: ? | 16:34 |
| luis_fdez | primeministerp: about RDP | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: yes | 16:34 |
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| luis_fdez | I know it's in an early stage but... is there a timelin aprox? | 16:35 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: we're shooting for the G release | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: but not sure when bits will be there for testing | 16:36 |
| luis_fdez | do you think it could be feasible to port it to folsom? | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: any rough ideas? | 16:36 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: hmm | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: I'll have to look into that | 16:36 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: it's pretty tight from a resource perspective, and we've not really thought about backporting | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | yet | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: however i can look into it | 16:37 |
| luis_fdez | ok, I'd like to integrate it in our next release, as it's an attractive improvement for endusers on Wndows | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: and see if we can put it on the radar | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: definately | 16:38 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: it's key for windows workloads | 16:38 |
| luis_fdez | ok, thank you :) | 16:38 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: no problem | 16:38 |
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| primeministerp | ok | 16:38 |
| primeministerp | anything else? | 16:38 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: ? | 16:39 |
| luis_fdez | primeministerp: another thing... | 16:39 |
| luis_fdez | hehe | 16:39 |
| alexpilotti | nothing new for the moment :-) | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | ok then, I'll call the meeting, thanks everyone | 16:39 |
| alexpilotti | but G-3 is behind the corner, so I guess that we'll have quite a lot of news soon :-) | 16:39 |
| luis_fdez | what about the resizing of the instances on hyperv? | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 16:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 8 16:39:39 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-01-08-15.58.html | 16:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-01-08-15.58.txt | 16:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-01-08-15.58.log.html | 16:39 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: ping | 16:46 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: one more question | 16:46 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: do you use vms for the controller infrastructure? | 16:47 |
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| ayoung | Keystone! heckj dolphm gyee dwchadwick ksiu henrynash sound off! | 18:00 |
| dolphm | o/ | 18:00 |
| henrynash | hi there | 18:00 |
| henrynash | 18:00 | |
| ksiu | hello | 18:00 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 8 18:00:28 2013 UTC. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| *** Guest24529 is now known as annegentle | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| dolphm | #topic team membership updates | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "team membership updates (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
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| ayoung | http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:01 |
| ayoung | heckj, I think this one is yours to address.... | 18:01 |
| dolphm | heckj made a couple nominations for 'core' contributor status on the mailing list last week (guang-yee & henrynash) | 18:01 |
| dolphm | this is definitely heckj's to address | 18:02 |
| dolphm | i'd also like to throw a belated +1 for henry-nash into the ring | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | Well, for now, lets assume that it is a done deal. I think we are all in agreement. | 18:03 |
| gyee | \o | 18:03 |
| dolphm | i guess we can leave that topic at that until heckj shares the "verdict" | 18:03 |
| dolphm | gyee: /salute | 18:03 |
| ayoung | yep /O | 18:04 |
| dolphm | #topic High priority bugs or immediate issues | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "High priority bugs or immediate issues (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| dolphm | anything exciting going on? i'm not aware of anything | 18:04 |
| ayoung | 0 Critical | 18:04 |
| gyee | I am working on separating out authentication, token validation | 18:04 |
| ayoung | 16 High importance | 18:04 |
| dolphm | gyee: on the road for v3? | 18:04 |
| gyee | yes | 18:04 |
| gyee | I am hooking up google 2-factor auth as well | 18:05 |
| gyee | with any luck, I should have a WIP review this week | 18:05 |
| dolphm | gyee: awesome, joesavak and chmouel will be thrilled :) they've both been asking about auth support on v3 recently | 18:05 |
| dolphm | gyee: i look forward to it | 18:05 |
| ayoung | gyee, nice | 18:05 |
| henrynash | indeed | 18:05 |
| ayoung | on multifactor, can you spec ouyt how it will look inside the token data? | 18:05 |
| dolphm | #topic multifactor | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "multifactor (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:05 | |
| ayoung | speaking of which | 18:05 |
| gyee | so we have "password_credentials" | 18:05 |
| gyee | that auth mechanism | 18:05 |
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| gyee | we are basically teeing off on the auth mechanism | 18:06 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/multi-factor-authn | 18:06 |
| gyee | so for google 2-factor, I'll have something like "google_2factor" | 18:06 |
| dolphm | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/multi-factor-authn | 18:06 |
| ayoung | gyee, so I would see it like | 18:06 |
| gyee | auth mechanisms will be handler like backend drivers | 18:06 |
| ayoung | auth_mechs: ["google_2factor"] | 18:07 |
| ayoung | each time you authenticate token to token, you add to that list | 18:07 |
| gyee | right, so for v3 , there are two auth mechanisms by default | 18:07 |
| gyee | password_credentials and token | 18:07 |
| ayoung | maybe we can just call that field "factors"? | 18:07 |
| ayoung | probabl auth_factors | 18:07 |
| egallen | Design specs must be independent of the factor | 18:08 |
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| * heckj runs in and runs out - will promote the +1'd folks to core this afternoon & announce in release meeting & mailing list (congrats gyee & henrynash!) | 18:08 | |
| dolphm | factors is slightly more complicated than that, in that 2 "somethings you know" are still just 1 "factor" (something you know) | 18:08 |
| ayoung | heckj, you have something else you want to add? | 18:08 |
| ayoung | dolphm, so the idea was we list the factors in the token | 18:08 |
| dolphm | so ['password', 'mothers_maiden_name'] is 1 factor auth | 18:08 |
| ayoung | and then RBAC uses | 18:08 |
| ayoung | er, policy | 18:08 |
| ayoung | uses the factors to decide "This token is good enough" | 18:09 |
| dolphm | ['password', 'mothers_maiden_name', 'rsa_token'] == 2 factor auth | 18:09 |
| gyee | google 2factor supports both sequence-based hash or time-based hash | 18:09 |
| dwchadwick | there is a better way than this. Its called level of assurance (LoA) if anyoone has heard of it | 18:09 |
| gyee | very straight forward | 18:09 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, yes. I think that is what we are headed toward | 18:09 |
| gyee | I tested it with my android phone, pretty easy to use | 18:09 |
| dwchadwick | There is a NIST standard on it, and an ISO standard as well | 18:09 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, the thing is, it needs to be enforced by the policy engine | 18:10 |
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| dwchadwick | We have already included this in our federation work | 18:10 |
| dwchadwick | Exactly. That is what LOA is for. For over 5 years our PERMIS policy engine has support LOA | 18:10 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, have you specified how it modifieds the data encapsulated in the signed token document? | 18:10 |
| gyee | for multi-factor, we'll have something like "transitional" tokens | 18:11 |
| dwchadwick | LOA is an attribute assigned to the user, just like any other identity attribute | 18:11 |
| dwchadwick | so that the PDP makes decisions based on all the attributes | 18:11 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, is that the name of the attribute "LOA"? | 18:11 |
| gyee | transitional tokens are like unscoped tokens except you can't trade them in for a scope token | 18:11 |
| ayoung | I would like to avoid TLAs | 18:11 |
| dwchadwick | Yes LOA (for level of assurance) | 18:11 |
| dwchadwick | There are two ways you can handle it. | 18:11 |
| dwchadwick | 1. As a subject attribute or | 18:11 |
| dwchadwick | 2. As an environmental attribute | 18:12 |
| ayoung | gyee, why not trade them in? | 18:12 |
| dolphm | gyee: would it make more sense to simply add an extra factor to *any* valid token you have? | 18:12 |
| dwchadwick | It does not really matter as long as the policy writer and the authn engine in Keystone agree and put the attribute in the right place | 18:12 |
| dolphm | gyee: what's the problem with trading in a "transitional" token for one with authz? | 18:13 |
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| gyee | well, auth policies is a different issue | 18:13 |
| ayoung | so in the auth dictionary of the token we have a field factors. It will have an array. I will write up the values that go in there based on existing mechanisms. Any additional mechanisms will get reviewed when they get submitted as patch review | 18:13 |
| dwchadwick | gyee - please done use auth | 18:14 |
| ayoung | s | 18:14 |
| gyee | for 2factor, transitional token is an incomplete token | 18:14 |
| gyee | like a half token | 18:14 |
| dwchadwick | use either authn or authz then it is clear what you mean | 18:14 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, I'll post a sample JSON doc. 1 sec | 18:14 |
| gyee | today, you can trade in an unscoped token for a scoped token | 18:14 |
| ayoung | gyee, instead, it will be a token that would not pass the policy check on some servers. | 18:14 |
| ayoung | so if you auth with just uid/pw, you could trade that for a scoped token, but it still wouldn't make it pass the policy check. | 18:15 |
| gyee | transitional token just holds the state of auth | 18:15 |
| dwchadwick | If tokens are created by keystone and validated by keystone why does it matter to any other service what they contain | 18:15 |
| ayoung | gyee, so my point is that we won't have explicit transitional tokens | 18:15 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, because it is up to the other services to determine the LOA they require | 18:16 |
| gyee | right, I am thinking about inventing one :) | 18:16 |
| ayoung | Keystone does not enforce policy | 18:16 |
| ayoung | gyee, don't | 18:16 |
| ayoung | gyee, we don't need them | 18:16 |
| dwchadwick | but the token contains the loa buried secretly in it, and keystone tells the service what the loa is whe n the service asks keystone to validate the token | 18:16 |
| gyee | so for auths that require multiple roundtrips, what token do we issue? | 18:16 |
| dwchadwick | so the LOA needs to be passed back in keystone's response but that is all you need to define to the outside world | 18:16 |
| dolphm | dwchadwick: why does it need to be buried / a secret? | 18:17 |
| ayoung | gyee, a token that specifies what authorization mechanism was used to generate it | 18:17 |
| dwchadwick | dolph: because the format of the token is opaque to the service | 18:17 |
| gyee | ayoung, authentication mechanism? | 18:17 |
| dwchadwick | the service is given a blob by the user and passes the blob to keystone for validation | 18:17 |
| dwchadwick | In this way keystone can change the blob format and the service is unaffected by it | 18:18 |
| dolphm | dwchadwick: ah, didn't realize that's all you meant | 18:18 |
| ayoung | gyee, OK, say I need 2 factors: uid/pw and PKI for example. | 18:18 |
| ayoung | First I auth with uid/pw and get a token. Then I resubmit that token with PKI | 18:18 |
| gyee | ayoung, that's two "complete" auths | 18:19 |
| ayoung | now I have a token with auth{ factors:[pki,pw] | 18:19 |
| dwchadwick | ayoung. In your authz policy you say "in order to access this resource you need a role of X and an Loa of 43 | 18:19 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: that's still 1 factor auth -- both are something you know | 18:19 |
| dwchadwick | 43 should be 3 | 18:19 |
| ayoung | dolphm, please stop confusing the issue with facts. | 18:19 |
| gyee | dude | 18:19 |
| gyee | say we have a challenge-response auth mechanism | 18:19 |
| gyee | which require multiple roundtrips | 18:20 |
| gyee | how do we issue something that holds the transitional state? | 18:20 |
| dwchadwick | you guys need to separate out authz from auth. LOA is the perfect mechanism for this | 18:20 |
| ayoung | gyee, that is outside of Keystone | 18:20 |
| gyee | well, we have to issue/return something | 18:20 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, authZ from authN? | 18:20 |
| dwchadwick | yes | 18:21 |
| dolphm | gyee: can you start a mailing list discussion on this topic with the direction that you're headed? obviously there's a lot to be discussed that we won't be able to cover today :) | 18:21 |
| ayoung | dolphm, will do. | 18:21 |
| gyee | yes sir | 18:21 |
| dolphm | meeting agenda is crazy long today | 18:21 |
| dolphm | #topic mapping | 18:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mapping (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:21 | |
| dolphm | ayoung: ^? | 18:21 |
| ayoung | dolphm, what I am describing is the end result of the discussion from the summit. I'll clean up the spec. | 18:21 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I assume you mean mapping for LDAP and groups? | 18:21 |
| dwchadwick | we have posted one new spec for mapping and revised the existing spec | 18:22 |
| ayoung | as the Kent folk also have mapping stuff to discuss | 18:22 |
| dolphm | "mapping (groups? attributes? ldap? ?? ayoung)" full topic on the agenda | 18:22 |
| ayoung | OK. one thing at a time | 18:22 |
| ayoung | first up is groups | 18:22 |
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| ayoung | henrynash' sreview has been approved and will merge once Jenkin's issues are sorted | 18:22 |
| gyee | w00t! | 18:22 |
| henrynash | it's merged | 18:23 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18097/ | 18:23 |
| henrynash | gyee: indeed! | 18:23 |
| ayoung | that has a SQL backend, but no LDAP. henrynash and I will work through that offline | 18:23 |
| henrynash | ayoung: yep, have some other IBM folks I can bring in to help on that too | 18:23 |
| ayoung | henrynash, cool. Anything else that we need to discuss in this forum? | 18:24 |
| dwchadwick | if you make the group change to controllers shouldnt it be independent of the backend | 18:24 |
| henrynash | not on this one | 18:24 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick this is where the group information is stored | 18:24 |
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| dwchadwick | I know, but when we are producing the attribute mapping code we are now doing it in the controllers | 18:25 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, OK, care to talk through your updated mapping spec? | 18:25 |
| dwchadwick | so that it does not matter what backend you have (or so Kristy informs me) | 18:25 |
| dwchadwick | Yes can do | 18:25 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, right, and for your code, that is the right place to do it, but even your code persists mapping, it just does it in a separate backend | 18:25 |
| ksiu | dwchadwick, it still needs a backend interface | 18:25 |
| henrynash | dwchadwick….but you need to store it somewhere (or at least someone needs to)… | 18:26 |
| dwchadwick | To the spec changes | 18:26 |
| ayoung | ksiu, you are creating a new backend module called "mapping" right? | 18:26 |
| dwchadwick | The original spec assumed that the keystone admin was in charge of everything | 18:26 |
| ksiu | i think I may have created some confusion here, I may have mispoke, I was discussing moving some functionality | 18:26 |
| dwchadwick | also the APIs were too low level for Henry to use | 18:26 |
| henrynash | dwchadwick…and need to decide which backends you need to support | 18:26 |
| dolphm | dwchadwick: the controllers consume an interface to a backend, but it doesn't matter what backend the user has configured (all backends should implement the interface equally); the backend driver still need to support whatever calls you need to make, such as "persist_new_mapping" | 18:26 |
| dwchadwick | So the new spec does two things | 18:26 |
| dwchadwick | a) provides a mechanism for distributed administration of mappings | 18:27 |
| dwchadwick | b) provides a high level API for these admins to use which makes attribute mapping easy | 18:27 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, so a) sounds like a general purpose problem solver | 18:27 |
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| dolphm | dwchadwick: (a) is dependent on (b) i assume? | 18:28 |
| henrynash | dwchadwick/ksiu: do we have a proposal on the formal api doc on that? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | can you talk through it in a little more detail | 18:28 |
| dwchadwick | dolph: I will leave you and Kristy to deal with these "implementation" issues if you dont mind | 18:28 |
| dolphm | dwchadwick: no problem | 18:28 |
| dwchadwick | No | 18:28 |
| ayoung | OK, moving on then.. | 18:28 |
| ayoung | heh | 18:28 |
| dolphm | next topic? | 18:28 |
| dolphm | #topic register modules | 18:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "register modules (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:29 | |
| dolphm | i'm not really sure what this is -- anyone? | 18:29 |
| dwchadwick | it would be posssible for the keystone admin to distribute out the work and let the admins use the low level APIs, but it would be inconvenient to them | 18:29 |
| henrynash | dolphm: nope | 18:29 |
| dwchadwick | henry: on what | 18:29 |
| ayoung | dolphm, ah, let me address | 18:29 |
| henrynash | (on knowing what register modules is) | 18:30 |
| gyee | ayoung, that's the lazy loading stuff you working on? | 18:30 |
| ayoung | gyee, yes | 18:30 |
| gyee | ah | 18:30 |
| ayoung | here is the issue | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | controllers need backends | 18:30 |
| ayoung | recently, we have made decent strides in cleaning this up | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | thanks dolphm | 18:30 |
| ayoung | but there is still a little ugliness | 18:30 |
| dolphm | ayoung: modules == concrete classes? | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | In order for a backend to fulfill a dependency it needs to have been created already | 18:31 |
| gyee | ayoung, any reason you can't use keystone.openstack.common.importutils? | 18:31 |
| ayoung | dolphm, well, I would say modules = identity, trusts, tokens... | 18:31 |
| ayoung | gyee, hold on | 18:31 |
| ayoung | there are 3 pieces in play, before we talk solutions | 18:31 |
| dolphm | gyee: i'm not sure that 'modules' == 'python modules' | 18:32 |
| ayoung | 1) a class has to say what it needs | 18:32 |
| ayoung | 2) the web server etc needs to specify what class fills what dependency | 18:32 |
| ayoung | and 3) that class needs to be loaded | 18:32 |
| ayoung | all that has to happen before we can resolve a dependency | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | right now, we have this managers() mechanism from termie's efforts | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | it allows us to swap out the implementation based on the configu file | 18:33 |
| ayoung | which is basically what I want to be able to do, just in a more general way | 18:33 |
| ayoung | So I'd like to drop "managers" and instead have code that iterates through the Drivers list in config and regsters which classes are used to resolve those depenedencies | 18:34 |
| ayoung | This would be built on top of my strings->classes work | 18:34 |
| ayoung | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18542/ | 18:34 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: that would certainly work, but where would you put code that managers currently implement? (e.g. exception handling) | 18:35 |
| ayoung | One thing it would clean up is that we wouldn't need to have code to explicitly create all of the Managers early on | 18:35 |
| ayoung | dolphm, let me post the link | 18:35 |
| ayoung | https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/common/manager.py | 18:36 |
| ayoung | That is all they do | 18:36 |
| ayoung | dolphm, there is also some real ugliness there | 18:36 |
| ayoung | in that we make calls with context used as the slef pointer. | 18:36 |
| ayoung | self | 18:37 |
| dolphm | ayoung: classes that extend keystone.common.manager.Manager have implementation details | 18:37 |
| ayoung | dolphm, Identity, for example | 18:37 |
| ayoung | https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/identity/core.py#L51 | 18:37 |
| dolphm | ayoung: the identity manager is relatively barren compared to https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/policy/core.py#L29 | 18:38 |
| ayoung | so tokens is in here https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/token/core.py#L70 | 18:38 |
| ayoung | And that code can easiler go into the Driver at the class level | 18:38 |
| ayoung | let me look | 18:38 |
| dolphm | ayoung: then it must be replicated into every driver? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | dolphm, no | 18:39 |
| ayoung | Drivers are treated as abstract base classes, but they don't have to be pure abstract | 18:39 |
| ayoung | we'd need to deconflict names, like get_policy | 18:39 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: i see where you're going, but i think the rest of this conversation would be best suited in the context of the code review? | 18:40 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i think everyone else is falling asleep | 18:40 |
| gyee | I am still awake, barely :) | 18:40 |
| ayoung | dolphm, fair enough. I just wanted people aware of where I was going with this, and why. Much easier up front. | 18:40 |
| dolphm | ayoung: cool | 18:41 |
| ayoung | We can move on | 18:41 |
| gyee | ayoung +1 | 18:41 |
| dolphm | #topic Test coverage | 18:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Test coverage (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:41 | |
| dolphm | ayoung: i assume you've been tracking our coverage? | 18:41 |
| dolphm | ayoung: has it improved? | 18:41 |
| ayoung | Have not looked at it | 18:41 |
| dolphm | (why was this on the agenda then?) | 18:41 |
| ayoung | dolphm, let me regen the stats and hit this at the end of the meeting | 18:41 |
| ayoung | dolphm, because we said we were going to review | 18:42 |
| dolphm | ayoung: cool, we need to get jenkins tracking our coverage again (it used to chart it for every commit) | 18:42 |
| dolphm | i think it got killed because it started recording 0% coverage all the time | 18:42 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ah | 18:42 |
| dolphm | #link Discussion on proposed api changes for domain role grants | 18:43 |
| dolphm | #topic Discussion on proposed api changes for domain role grants | 18:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion on proposed api changes for domain role grants (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:43 | |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18706/ | 18:43 |
| henrynash | hopefully can make this quick…Dolph - I changed the bp to just be the re-specifation of what it meant to assign a role to a domain | 18:43 |
| henrynash | ..i.e. it means just to the container (not all the projects within it) | 18:43 |
| dolphm | so, for everyone else... to grant a user a role on all projects in a domain: you'll have to get the list of projects in the domain, and then make a grant call for each project you get back | 18:44 |
| dolphm | it's a bit more chatty, but lets us distinguish between grants on the domain itself and grants on the contents of the domain | 18:44 |
| dolphm | any objections? | 18:44 |
| gyee | wait | 18:44 |
| dolphm | i assume only keystone will consume domain-grants | 18:44 |
| henrynash | for now yes | 18:44 |
| gyee | so what does granting a role to a domain mean? | 18:45 |
| dwchadwick | good question | 18:45 |
| dolphm | gyee: absolutely nothing to other services | 18:45 |
| henrynash | e.g. give a user permission to manage user and drops for a given domain | 18:45 |
| dolphm | gyee: but to keystone, it means you have a role on the container, so you could (for example) create projects in that domain | 18:45 |
| henrynash | i.e. the keystone policy engine will process this | 18:45 |
| gyee | oh, so its a domain admin role then? | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, hrm. Let me process that. Not sure I like it, as it makes the implementation tricky. I'm not saying "No" just lets discuss in a couple days. | 18:46 |
| dolphm | gyee: yes | 18:46 |
| dwchadwick | this is not granting a role to a domain. this is granting a role permission to perform ops on the domain | 18:46 |
| dolphm | gyee: could be more granular as well | 18:46 |
| henrynash | dwchadwick: yes | 18:46 |
| dwchadwick | so it would help to be more precise | 18:46 |
| henrynash | ayoung: sure | 18:46 |
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| dolphm | dwchadwick: "not granting a role to [the contents of] a domain" yes; however, i imagine that if you have some sort of admin role on the domain, nothing is stopping you from granting yourself roles on all the of contents of the domain | 18:47 |
| gyee | dolphm, I am fine with this | 18:47 |
| dolphm | gyee: cool | 18:47 |
| dwchadwick | correct. but this is still granting permissions to a role, isnt it? they are just diferent permissions | 18:47 |
| dolphm | gyee: checkout the linked review above if you have a chance | 18:48 |
| gyee | ok | 18:48 |
| ayoung | do we need domain level roles at all? Don't groups support that use case better? | 18:48 |
| dwchadwick | groups dont have permissions | 18:48 |
| dwchadwick | groups map into roles and roles have permissions | 18:48 |
| gyee | ayoung, role definitions are global right now, you saying domain-level role definitions? | 18:49 |
| ayoung | gyee, OK, let me be clearer | 18:49 |
| ayoung | do we need domain specific role grants? | 18:49 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: i think they're sort of orthogonal concepts -- domains own users and projects, groups collect subsets of users from any domain as an administrative shortcut | 18:49 |
| dwchadwick | I would say yes | 18:49 |
| dwchadwick | since domains are autonomous units arent they? so they should have different permissions | 18:50 |
| ayoung | gyee, I can see where two domains might have different names for their roles. | 18:50 |
| henrynash | ayoung: how would I allow one user to only, day, manage the crud for users and groups in one particular domain, but they not have any project access | 18:50 |
| henrynash | (a very common enterprise job) | 18:50 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: when i wrote the spec for domain role grants, i failed to distinguish between having a role on the domain and having a role on the contents of the domain; this fixes that | 18:50 |
| gyee | ayoung, I would love to have role definitions own by domains | 18:50 |
| gyee | meaning you can only grant domain-roles to users for projects within the domain only | 18:51 |
| dwchadwick | I thought we agreed months ago that roles could be both local and global | 18:51 |
| ayoung | dolphm, henrynash right, I can see the need to be able to administer the domain, but why would I want to be able to use gratns to grant a role to au ser for all projects in that domain. | 18:51 |
| ayoung | That, to me, is what groups are for. | 18:52 |
| henrynash | ayoung: that's way we took out | 18:52 |
| ayoung | henrynash, then there should be no need for a flag | 18:52 |
| ayoung | the role is never applied to the enclosed projects | 18:52 |
| henrynash | ayoung: it's been removed, see the commit comment | 18:52 |
| ayoung | henrynash, ah, I was looking at the blueprint. We are in violent agreement | 18:53 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I should go update the bp as well, sorry | 18:53 |
| henrynash | ayoung: +2 | 18:53 |
| dolphm | yay | 18:53 |
| gyee | nice | 18:53 |
| dolphm | #topic Discussion on proposed api changes for domain token scoping | 18:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion on proposed api changes for domain token scoping (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:53 | |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18770/ | 18:53 |
| henrynash | this is kind of the partner in crime….so you can get a token that lets you do the admin role | 18:54 |
| dolphm | so, this ties into the previous conversation, and other services wouldn't support these tokens, as there's no project-level authorization | 18:55 |
| ayoung | dolphm, that may not be true. It should not be up to Keystone to enforce | 18:55 |
| henrynash | dolphm: yes..one day I can imagine cases when the might (e.g. images that are common to a domain) | 18:55 |
| ayoung | henrynash, zacly | 18:55 |
| henrynash | but they can do that in their own time…this lays the foundations | 18:56 |
| ayoung | henrynash, so the follow on work is "scope a token to a set of endpoints." | 18:56 |
| ayoung | Feel free to knock that out as well! | 18:57 |
| henrynash | ayoung: I'll certainly take a look! | 18:57 |
| ayoung | henrynash, cool, we can talk about that offline | 18:57 |
| dolphm | henrynash: if we implement this in auth_token middleware, we need to be very careful about what is exposed as DOMIAN_ID / DOMAIN_NAME to the underlying service (as we have both the user's owning domain and potentially the token's domain-scoped authz, which may not reflect the same domain) | 18:57 |
| ayoung | 3 minutes remaining | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | we can skip Dependency injectsion | 18:58 |
| henrynash | dolphm: ok | 18:58 |
| ayoung | already covered it | 18:58 |
| dolphm | USER_DOMAIN_ID / USER_DOMAIN_NAME (user's owning domain) + DOMAIN_ID / DOMAIN_NAME (authz scope) | 18:58 |
| dolphm | ayoung: k; i'll push the rest of the topic to next week | 18:58 |
| gyee | good idea, need time to absorb this | 18:58 |
| ayoung | dolphm, migration, for the last minute? | 18:58 |
| dolphm | topics* | 18:58 |
| ayoung | "Default" domain migration (dolphm) | 18:59 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i don't have a code review up for that yet, so i'll push that as well | 18:59 |
| ayoung | Cool. | 18:59 |
| ayoung | If anyone is willing to talk SQL, lets to that in #openstack-dev after this | 18:59 |
| dolphm | #topic open discussion | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:59 | |
| dolphm | super brief, we have like 10 seconds on my clock ;) | 18:59 |
| gyee | can somebody review my memcache protection changes? | 18:59 |
| ayoung | Summit is in Portland this year | 19:00 |
| dolphm | gyee: link? | 19:00 |
| gyee | dolphm: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18909/ | 19:00 |
| gyee | thanks | 19:00 |
| dolphm | always wanted to go to portland (i've been to vancouver, which was fantastic) | 19:00 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18909/ | 19:00 |
| ayoung | gyee, please add the core devs to the list of reviewes for important changes | 19:00 |
| ayoung | list of reviewers | 19:00 |
| gyee | ayoung, will do | 19:00 |
| dolphm | i get notified either way :) | 19:01 |
| ayoung | times up. we all revert to mice and pumpkins | 19:01 |
| dolphm | hence my review queue moves slowly | 19:01 |
| dolphm | hack responsibly, everyone | 19:01 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 8 19:01:25 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-01-08-18.00.html | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-01-08-18.00.txt | 19:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-01-08-18.00.log.html | 19:01 |
| jeblair | ci/infra people? | 19:01 |
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| clarkb | o/ | 19:02 |
| fungi | yo | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | mordred, ttx: ping | 19:02 |
| khaido | in. | 19:02 |
| olaph | hiya | 19:02 |
| mordred | hey jeblair ! | 19:02 |
| fungi | pleia2 said she can't make it, but she's lurking and planning to read scrollback | 19:02 |
| fungi | new employee appointment stuff | 19:03 |
| jeblair | cool | 19:03 |
| jeblair | less cool | 19:03 |
| jeblair | :) | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting ci | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 8 19:03:13 2013 UTC. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ci)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ci' | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #topic meeting name | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "meeting name (Meeting topic: ci)" | 19:03 | |
| jeblair | should we call this thing the "infra" meeting? :) | 19:03 |
| jeblair | i mean, it's longer to type, but seems more accurate to me. | 19:03 |
| clarkb | that would make the naming consistent | 19:03 |
| * fungi agrees | 19:04 | |
| fungi | motion carried? | 19:04 |
| jeblair | motion carried | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #topic CLA | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CLA (Meeting topic: ci)" | 19:04 | |
| jeblair | i just got the new cla text from jbryce | 19:04 |
| fungi | yes! | 19:04 |
| mordred | w00t! | 19:04 |
| clarkb | all your code is belong to the openstack foundation | 19:04 |
| fungi | now my plans for what i'm working on this week change slightly ;) | 19:04 |
| jeblair | i just fwded it to fungi and mordred | 19:05 |
| jeblair | i haven't read it yet, so first order of business is make sure it's actually what we want | 19:05 |
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| fungi | so we're basically ready to make it go. i'll touch up docs edits and rebase stuff accordingly | 19:05 |
| fungi | and yes, read the new cla of course | 19:06 |
| jeblair | fungi: cool, when you're done with that, let us all know. i want to make another pass at reviewing all that | 19:06 |
| fungi | and assuming everything looks okay, we can agree on a date and announce stuff | 19:06 |
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| fungi | jeblair: will do. second order of business after the meeting, once i fix the review expiration script | 19:07 |
| mordred | mmm | 19:07 |
| clarkb | is the foundation's server up and ready to return 200s? | 19:07 |
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| fungi | clarkb: yes, has been. i just have to give toddmorey the new keys i installed in heira for production | 19:07 |
| clarkb | and we can put it in place on review-dev in the same way that will be deployed to review.o.o right? | 19:07 |
| fungi | yep | 19:07 |
| clarkb | cool | 19:07 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/14099 | 19:08 |
| fungi | for reference | 19:08 |
| jeblair | fungi: btw, toddmorey is a foundation employee now (which probably doesn't change much) | 19:08 |
| fungi | jeblair: so are you ;) | 19:08 |
| jeblair | yep. just mentioning it in case he may have slightly less rackspace stuff to deal with (i'm hoping) | 19:09 |
| fungi | oh, you mean in a good way! | 19:09 |
| jeblair | i like to think so. :) | 19:09 |
| mordred | woot! | 19:09 |
| fungi | so that's all on that topic for the moment i think? | 19:09 |
| jeblair | he's always been super busy (but does great work) | 19:09 |
| jeblair | i think so | 19:09 |
| jeblair | #topic review expiration | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review expiration (Meeting topic: ci)" | 19:10 | |
| jeblair | fungi: plan? | 19:10 |
| clarkb | we should probably send an email nowish giving people a heads up | 19:10 |
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| clarkb | otherwise the potential flood of gerrit email may be confusing to people | 19:10 |
| fungi | clarkb: good point | 19:10 |
| fungi | i'll follow up to my pre-holiday e-mail on the -dev ml | 19:10 |
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| fungi | and then give it an hour and approve the fix | 19:11 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18541/ | 19:11 |
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| * mordred is going to be sad when several of his reviews expire... | 19:11 | |
| fungi | mordred: you and me both | 19:11 |
| jeblair | #topic rechecks | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rechecks (Meeting topic: ci)" | 19:12 | |
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| jeblair | I'm not ready to announce the recheck bug linking yet... | 19:12 |
| jeblair | I'd like to write up wiki docs on the final syntax and make sure we can point to those before making an announcement | 19:12 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:13 |
| fungi | sounds like a plan | 19:13 |
| jeblair | so I'll try to do that this week, and maybe we can announce the new syntax next week | 19:13 |
| clarkb | jeblair: have you decided on a way to handle the non bug rechecks? | 19:13 |
| jeblair | clarkb: no. any suggestions? | 19:13 |
| jeblair | the idea is most rechecks can be linked to a bug, but sometimes you just need to recheck something because master has moved on, and it really doesn't make sense to link to a bug in that case. | 19:14 |
| clarkb | maybe a dummy bug so that the rechecks page tracks cases of that properly? | 19:14 |
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| clarkb | or some verb in place of a bug number | 19:14 |
| jeblair | clarkb: well, it's just not very interesting, so i don't think i want to collect data on it (and have a huge list of changes linked to it) | 19:14 |
| jeblair | so maybe just "recheck no bug" or something | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | which is, frankly, a weird thing to say, so i'd still love to find something better. :) | 19:15 |
| clarkb | my only worry with not tracking it is that it may be too easy to use that in place of a bug | 19:15 |
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| fungi | recheck kthxbye | 19:15 |
| clarkb | but thats a social problem and not a technical one | 19:15 |
| jeblair | indeed | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | we're trying to get useful data, and if people chose to be jerks about it, that's better solved with social pressure than tech | 19:16 |
| mordred | or with wolves | 19:16 |
| jeblair | i hadn't thought of that, but it just may work | 19:17 |
| * mordred is occasionally helpful | 19:17 | |
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| fungi | so having a nonbug keyword still helps remind not-jerks that we appreciate bug numbers if they can dig one up for us | 19:17 |
| jeblair | fungi: yeah' and saying specifically "there is no bug" and lying about it reminds them they're jerks | 19:17 |
| clarkb | ya I definitely think we shouldn't allow the old 'recheck' | 19:17 |
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| fungi | and i agree there's not much to be done about people not caring. they need a reason to care and if we can't give then one, laziness will often prevail over helpfulness | 19:19 |
| fungi | er, give them one | 19:19 |
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| fungi | having a good stats page about that stuff counts as a good reason, in my view | 19:19 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:19 |
| jeblair | so i'd like to talk about the wiki and status page, and continue the ttx all-request hour, but I don't think Ryan_Lane or ttx are here now... | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | anyone else have topics while we wait a bit? | 19:20 |
| clarkb | jenkins upgrade | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | #topic jenkins upgrade | 19:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "jenkins upgrade (Meeting topic: ci)" | 19:20 | |
| fungi | we upgraded jenkins? | 19:20 |
| jeblair | we did that | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | we still need to fix devstack-oneiric image builds | 19:20 |
| clarkb | #link https://wiki.jenkins-ci.org/display/SECURITY/Jenkins+Security+Advisory+2013-01-04 | 19:20 |
| jeblair | and then we also need to fix the scp plugin race | 19:20 |
| jeblair | (which is not related to the upgrade) | 19:21 |
| clarkb | I had to change hudson's authorized_keys file on tarballs.openstack.org | 19:21 |
| jeblair | clarkb: good catch. we should work on moving tarballs.o.o to static.o.o | 19:21 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:21 |
| jeblair | anything else creep up since the upgrade? | 19:22 |
| clarkb | jeblair: http://paste.openstack.org/show/29012/ is a preliminary patch to fix scp | 19:22 |
| jeblair | clarkb: cool, thanks! | 19:22 |
| clarkb | we may need to consider having more devstack nodes | 19:22 |
| jeblair | clarkb: we're still down because of the oneiric thing... | 19:23 |
| fungi | pretty sure i got through all the rechecks/reverifies last night before i passed out, so should have been ready for most people by the time they saw the e-mail | 19:23 |
| jeblair | clarkb: the providers that have oneiric images aren't creating precise images | 19:23 |
| clarkb | ah | 19:23 |
| clarkb | ok | 19:23 |
| clarkb | will non diablo make use of the oneiric devstack hosts? | 19:23 |
| jeblair | clarkb: no, it's just they both get built in the same job | 19:24 |
| mordred | nope. | 19:24 |
| jeblair | clarkb: and oneiric gets built first | 19:24 |
| mordred | we could just fix it by dropping support for diablo | 19:24 |
| fungi | or with rhel devstack slaves ;) | 19:24 |
| mordred | I was only half kidding .. anybody know when the last time we took a patch for diablo was? | 19:24 |
| jeblair | mordred: no, but if we're going to make a case for dropping diablo based on red bitrot jobs, i'd like the bitrot jobs to actually be running. :/ | 19:25 |
| fungi | i'd like to think we'd still patch serious security issues in a year-old release | 19:26 |
| jeblair | fungi: i would like to think that but i'm far from sure | 19:26 |
| mordred | just putting it out there - we've done 6 diablo patches since last april | 19:26 |
| fungi | right. would be great for missing slaves not to be the reason we don't get a security fix out though | 19:26 |
| jeblair | so anyway, the oneiric problem is a really weird apt/dpkg issue, so if anyone with expertise in that area has some time to pitch in this afternoon, that would be great. :) | 19:27 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I had planned to take a second look at it, but I do not claim apt expertise | 19:27 |
| fungi | now that i'm a little more awake, i can try to take a look | 19:27 |
| jeblair | i'm currently stuck at "but that number _is_ greater than that other number". | 19:27 |
| mordred | jeblair: what are the two numbers? (what's the problem?) | 19:28 |
| fungi | i still think it has to do with the arch-specificness of the one version, but that's just a hunch. it was late | 19:28 |
| mordred | also - I hear that zul might know something about packaging... | 19:28 |
| jeblair | mordred: it's yucky and detailed, let's work on it in #-infra after the meeting.. i'd like to move onto wiki... | 19:28 |
| jeblair | #topic wiki | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "wiki (Meeting topic: ci)" | 19:29 | |
| jeblair | btw, i saw some scrollback in #-infra... i did upgrade moin on wiki.o.o | 19:29 |
| Ryan_Lane | not much has changed there | 19:29 |
| Ryan_Lane | for mediawiki | 19:29 |
| jeblair | i _think_ i mentioned that in channel at the time | 19:29 |
| jeblair | Ryan_Lane: so yeah, if possible, we're even more excited about moving to mediawiki... | 19:30 |
| Ryan_Lane | heh | 19:30 |
| jeblair | Ryan_Lane: with, like, people paying attention to it and stuff. :) | 19:30 |
| Ryan_Lane | I thought we had a volunteer for the skin, but I guess it was more work than he expected | 19:30 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:30 |
| Ryan_Lane | ah. right | 19:30 |
| jeblair | olaph: are you volunteering to write a mediawiki skin? | 19:31 |
| Ryan_Lane | olaph: did you get a chance to look at it? | 19:31 |
| olaph | i essentially have a default skin with a openstack logo slaped in there | 19:31 |
| Ryan_Lane | heh | 19:31 |
| fungi | that's more than a default skin with no openstack logo | 19:31 |
| olaph | how should it look? should it be obvious it is mediawiki, or should it look like the openstack site as much as possible? | 19:31 |
| Ryan_Lane | it honestly may be enough to just change the logo and the css | 19:31 |
| jeblair | olaph: consider https://jenkins.openstack.org/ | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | which is not responding for me right now... | 19:32 |
| jeblair | ah there it goes.. | 19:32 |
| jeblair | anyway, it's basically a logo, and some text colors changed to match | 19:32 |
| fungi | each release gets slower | 19:32 |
| jeblair | and it made a world of difference | 19:32 |
| jeblair | olaph, Ryan_Lane: so yeah, it may not take much more than that... | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | which is pretty much what the moin theme is like too | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | it still looks like moinmoin | 19:33 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:33 |
| Ryan_Lane | that's much easier, then. it may not even require a full skin | 19:33 |
| clarkb | is the other open item the column data? | 19:33 |
| Ryan_Lane | redirects | 19:33 |
| jeblair | #action olaph to finish openstack skin | 19:33 |
| Ryan_Lane | column data? for tables? | 19:34 |
| clarkb | Ryan_Lane: ya | 19:34 |
| clarkb | forgive me if I am not describing it properl | 19:34 |
| Ryan_Lane | it would be ideal to fix that, but that perl script is frightening | 19:34 |
| Ryan_Lane | it may be best to just fix the spots its broken in the content | 19:34 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'd also like to have the mobile skin working, but that's really more of an enhancement | 19:35 |
| Ryan_Lane | if we do the skin and the redirects, I think the rest can be handled by a doc sprint | 19:36 |
| jeblair | Ryan_Lane: are you taking a stab at redirects? | 19:36 |
| Ryan_Lane | yep | 19:36 |
| jeblair | I think ttx said he was going to try to make a nicer front page | 19:36 |
| zul | mordred: only a little | 19:36 |
| Ryan_Lane | I'll try to get that done soon. maybe I'll work on it tonight | 19:36 |
| jeblair | #action Ryan_Lane handle redirects | 19:37 |
| jeblair | #action ttx make nice front page | 19:37 |
| jeblair | so maybe we'll check back next week and see if we're at the point of scheduling a cutover date/sprint? | 19:38 |
| Ryan_Lane | sounds good | 19:38 |
| olaph | works for me... | 19:38 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | cool. other topics while we wait and see if ttx shows up? | 19:39 |
| clarkb | askbot? | 19:39 |
| jeblair | #topic askbot | 19:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "askbot (Meeting topic: ci)" | 19:39 | |
| jeblair | reed: around? | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | based on the complexity of the system uncovered by the work clarkb has done so far... | 19:40 |
| clarkb | over the holidays I hacked on an askbot puppet module that would install askbot with apache, memcached, and mysql | 19:40 |
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| ttx | o/ | 19:41 |
| clarkb | those three pieces work, but lack performant search functionality which requires the use of haystack. unfortunately askbot's haystack support appears to currently be broken with circular imports due to django's i8ln support | 19:41 |
| * ttx reads scrollback | 19:41 | |
| jeblair | ...i think if the askbot people are able to fully host an instance for us, that would be best. | 19:41 |
| clarkb | so we are taking a second look at the other options available to us | 19:41 |
| clarkb | what jeblair mentions is one potential option. Another option is running a server that they support. we would probably use postgres in that case to avoid search problems | 19:42 |
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| clarkb | reed is currently handling the communication with askbot as we sort out our options | 19:43 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: anything else to add? | 19:43 |
| jeblair | yep. i'm worried about who takes reponsibility for what aspects of managing that server, and us ending up with more work that we bargained for, which is why i prefer the other option first. | 19:43 |
| jeblair | #topic status page | 19:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status page (Meeting topic: ci)" | 19:45 | |
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| jeblair | ttx: over the holidays, i threw together http://status.openstack.org/ | 19:45 |
| mordred | it's purty | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | ttx: it incorporates some zuul status stuff and your 3 things that currently are on the wiki server | 19:45 |
| ttx | Saw that. I'll use the same headers on the status pages | 19:45 |
| jeblair | (that you've been puppetizing) | 19:45 |
| jeblair | ttx: you think that's a good general direction? | 19:46 |
| jeblair | also, i think we can put things like outage notices, monitoring info, etc on the main page | 19:46 |
| jeblair | once we get our act together on that sort of thing | 19:46 |
| ttx | I'll have to look into how to properly puppetize the scripts, now that they are poublished | 19:46 |
| ttx | jeblair: sure | 19:46 |
| jeblair | cool, then i think i'll reconfigure zuul to point there instead of zuul.o.o when it leaves comments | 19:47 |
| ttx | I have the following on my todo: | 19:47 |
| ttx | apply same theme to release status and bugday status | 19:47 |
| jeblair | and have zuul.o.o redirect | 19:47 |
| ttx | Make bugday run in a rolling fashion | 19:47 |
| ttx | (i.e. automatically have the past 48 hours activity | 19:47 |
| ttx | ) | 19:47 |
| ttx | (rather than needing to start and top it manually) | 19:47 |
| jeblair | that sounds good | 19:48 |
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| ttx | http://status.openstack.org/reviews/ is horribly stale | 19:48 |
| ttx | I think we should remove it and/or plug reviewday instead | 19:48 |
| jeblair | dprince: ping | 19:49 |
| mordred | we have a todo list task which is "integrate reviewday" | 19:49 |
| dprince | jeblair: hi | 19:49 |
| mordred | https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1082785 | 19:49 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1082785 in openstack-ci "Import reviewday into OpenStack infrastructure" [High,Triaged] | 19:49 |
| jeblair | dprince: we're putting together http://status.openstack.org/ | 19:49 |
| ttx | jeblair: ideallly I'd just include your header with all the links, rather than copy it over | 19:49 |
| jeblair | dprince: as a point of integration for various project statusy things | 19:50 |
| dprince | Okay. I like it. | 19:50 |
| jeblair | dprince: and were thinking that would be good to incorporate reviewday in there | 19:50 |
| dprince | Okay. I'm up for helping here if you guys need it. | 19:51 |
| dprince | The ticket mentions projects.yml... | 19:52 |
| jeblair | dprince: great! is reviewday cron -> static html? or a web app? | 19:52 |
| jeblair | dprince: and is http://pypi.python.org/pypi/reviewday/0.1.0 current? | 19:52 |
| dprince | cron -> static. | 19:52 |
| mordred | yeah. as a second step, we could have reviewday grab the list of projects it monitors from projects.yaml | 19:52 |
| ttx | jeblair: it's a rewrite of my review code, so static generation | 19:53 |
| dprince | jeblair: I did push an initial release to Pypi. | 19:53 |
| mordred | but I don't think we need to do that right off the bat | 19:53 |
| dprince | jeblair: But that is now stale | 19:53 |
| ttx | takes.. a bit of time to extract all necessary data from lp :) | 19:53 |
| jeblair | gotcha | 19:53 |
| dprince | most recent code is under git://github.com/dprince/reviewday | 19:53 |
| jeblair | dprince: want to make a gerrit project for it, and get automatic tag-based releases to pypi in the bargain? | 19:54 |
| dprince | We can move that elsewhere if it makes sense too. | 19:54 |
| dprince | fine by me | 19:54 |
| jeblair | why don't we make openstack-infra/reviewday, publish a new version to pypi from there... | 19:54 |
| * dprince calls it a project promotion | 19:54 | |
| jeblair | ...then it should basically be a matter of writing some puppet to install it and cron it on static.o.o | 19:55 |
| ttx | jeblair: had two topics to raise before meeting end | 19:55 |
| jeblair | ttx: go! | 19:55 |
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| dprince | Is openstack-infra stuff mirrored to github? | 19:55 |
| jeblair | dprince: yep, same as the rest | 19:55 |
| ttx | Private Gerrit for security reviews | 19:55 |
| ttx | are we making progress on that front ? | 19:55 |
| jeblair | #topic ttx all-request hour | 19:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ttx all-request hour (Meeting topic: ci)" | 19:55 | |
| jeblair | no, i don't think anyone has started that yet | 19:55 |
| mordred | ttx: we still think it's a good idea! | 19:55 |
| ttx | heh | 19:56 |
| jeblair | yes, i consider it high priority | 19:56 |
| ttx | we did not regress, that's still positive I guess | 19:56 |
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| fungi | there were still questions around how to trigger jenkins tests for ir and keep it integrated with the pipeline, right? | 19:56 |
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| fungi | the gate pipeline specifically | 19:57 |
| jeblair | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1083101 | 19:57 |
| ttx | the second thing is mostly for mordred: he was supposed to send some requirements email to the Launchpad SSO folks | 19:57 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1083101 in openstack-ci "Set up private gerrit for security reviews" [High,Triaged] | 19:57 |
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| ttx | with things they could improve for us to be happier | 19:57 |
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| mordred | oh. right | 19:58 |
| ttx | last thing, how is transfer of openstack.org website under our marvelous infrastructure going on so far ? | 19:58 |
| mordred | it's not | 19:59 |
| jeblair | we need to bug todd and jbryce about it | 19:59 |
| mordred | but I believe that now that todd is a foundation employee, he will have more time to give us love on that front | 19:59 |
| jeblair | both of them support the idea in theory. need to translate to practice. :) | 19:59 |
| ttx | ok, that was all | 19:59 |
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| mordred | ttx: the version/tarball stuff | 19:59 |
| ttx | (since you covered askbot and wikimove) | 19:59 |
| jeblair | cool, thanks everyone! | 19:59 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 8 20:00:07 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2013/ci.2013-01-08-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2013/ci.2013-01-08-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2013/ci.2013-01-08-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | mordred: what about it ? | 20:00 |
| mordred | ttx: have you looked at the proposed changes and/or is there anything blocking that from your perspective for go post G2 ? | 20:00 |
| ttx | no, post-G2 is fine | 20:00 |
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| mordred | cool | 20:00 |
| ttx | mordred: the code looks suspiciously simpke | 20:00 |
| ttx | simple* | 20:00 |
| mordred | ttx: yup | 20:00 |
| ttx | but i can't find why it's wrong. yet. | 20:01 |
| mordred | ttx: that should make you happy, no? | 20:01 |
| mordred | NEAT! | 20:01 |
| * mordred finds deleting code is always better | 20:01 | |
| ttx | My goal in life is to contribute a negative number of lines to openstack | 20:01 |
| ttx | Who is around for the TC meeting ? | 20:01 |
| notmyname | here | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:02 |
| bcwaldon | hey hey | 20:02 |
| danwent | o/ | 20:02 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | yay, quorum | 20:02 |
| markmc | yo | 20:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 8 20:02:32 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
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| ttx | Agenda for today @ | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #topic Motion: Distro & Python 2.6/3.x support policy | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Motion: Distro & Python 2.6/3.x support policy (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | Motion was proposed by mordred and discussed at: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2012-December/004052.html | 20:03 |
| heckj | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | The only clear comment we had is that the "endeavor" clause could also include SLES. | 20:03 |
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| ttx | mordred: should we amend the motion before voting ? | 20:03 |
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| ttx | or do you prefer we vote on the original form ? | 20:03 |
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| mordred | ttx: hrm. perhaps? what about "endeavor to not break latest stable releases of distros who show up and care about us?" | 20:04 |
| * mordred trying to think how to be inclusive and not prescriptive now | 20:04 | |
| * ttx hands annegentle a RNG | 20:04 | |
| russellb | though it turns the policy into a bit more wide open, instead of specifically defined | 20:04 |
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| russellb | not that i'm necessarily opposed, just thinking out loud ... | 20:05 |
| mordred | yeah. how about we vote as is, and if it causes problems, we can always come back and talk about it | 20:05 |
| russellb | wfm | 20:05 |
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| ttx | yeah, it's more about "supporting the current state of distros" (with the help of some specific distros to define it) than "supporting specific distros" | 20:06 |
| *** jcooley|away is now known as jcooley | 20:06 | |
| markmc | well, "current state" is latest Ubuntu/Fedora | 20:06 |
| notmyname | what about the phrase "impossibly or unnaturally difficult"? | 20:06 |
| markmc | the LTS/RHEL clause was about specific older distros | 20:06 |
| ttx | "latest Ubuntu/Fedora" is just a way to say "current", and "LTS/RHEL" a way to define "ancient but still around" | 20:07 |
| mordred | well, I think impossibly gets vague - I'd like to define some threshold for why we care about things that aren't current | 20:07 |
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| russellb | but that's what it says now? | 20:08 |
| ttx | though "latest Fedora" gets older as the day pass :P | 20:08 |
| mordred | :) | 20:08 |
| danwent | yeah, "endeavor" and "unnaturally difficult" seem quite vauge, to the point where I'm having trouble imagining how this could be used to make a decision if two parties disagreed. | 20:08 |
| markmc | doesn't "latest Ubuntu" too? | 20:08 |
| markmc | confused | 20:08 |
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| ttx | markmc: well, Ubuntu is released a bit more... regularly :P | 20:08 |
| markmc | ttx, oh, you mean the fedora schedule slips? | 20:09 |
| ttx | yeah (just a release manager joke) | 20:09 |
| russellb | har har har | 20:09 |
| * markmc hadn't been paying attention to the slips :) | 20:09 | |
| mordred | it's possible that ttx might have introduced a classic flame war | 20:09 |
| mordred | ttx: emacs' release schedule is better than vi's! | 20:09 |
| russellb | so, vote? | 20:10 |
| ttx | danwent: how about: "do our best to support" ? | 20:10 |
| markmc | ok, do we really need to vote on this as if it's a policy for conflict resolution? | 20:10 |
| russellb | or are there specific changes needed? | 20:10 |
| markmc | monty has stated well what the current consensus is IMHO | 20:10 |
| markmc | but there's an element of "SLES is pretty close to the bar" too | 20:10 |
| markmc | it's always going to evolve | 20:10 |
| markmc | as more distros get more involved | 20:10 |
| ttx | "endeavor" and "unnaturally difficult" are quite vague because we don't commit to support them, it's only a best effort thing ? | 20:11 |
| ttx | I think kthe current wording is ok, personally | 20:11 |
| danwent | ttx: i'm still stuck on how two disagreeing people would use that to make a decision. what is a practical exampmle of when this policy would be applied? for example, if someone wanted to use a python construct that was only compatible with 3.0? | 20:11 |
| mordred | ttx: well, we don't commit to much of anything other than releasing every six months | 20:11 |
| russellb | cautious support, with an out :) | 20:11 |
| mordred | danwent: yes | 20:11 |
| danwent | so i'm not sure what "do your best" tells me in this case. | 20:12 |
| mordred | danwent: that's the particular case in point - "use 3.3 feature that isn't possible to backport to 2.6" | 20:12 |
| mordred | which clearly won't work for current RHEL - so it should be clear that we should not do that | 20:12 |
| markmc | danwent, it's more "we will do our best" IMHO | 20:12 |
| danwent | mordred: yup, agree that its important to have a policy on that. just trying to make sure its one that can be interpreted clearly by someone doing a code review. | 20:12 |
| mordred | danwent: good point | 20:13 |
| ttx | and if breaking them is the only way to do it, I guess that could be brought to the TC again | 20:13 |
| russellb | hard to imagine that being the case, but who knows | 20:13 |
| danwent | maybe something like avoid breaking compatibility if an alternate mechanism that doesn't break compatability is also available? | 20:13 |
| ttx | mordred motion says "it's an issue to break them, so we should avoid it" -- doesn't say 'we won't break it after careful consideration' | 20:13 |
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| danwent | or that we shouldn't break, unless doing so is the only way to achieve a key priority of the project? | 20:14 |
| ttx | I expect such cases to be brought back to the TC if it ever happened | 20:14 |
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| markmc | yeah, careful consideration involving the rest of the project (i.e. mailing list) the TC is probably what we want | 20:14 |
| ttx | i.e. "you shalt not break them unless the TC agrees" | 20:14 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:15 |
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| danwent | ok, that seems like a pretty clear rule. | 20:15 |
| ttx | "the TC" in that case being the appeals board if consensus could not be reached below | 20:15 |
| notmyname | I think a good point was raised in the mailing list thread. what does distro support actually mean? that we won't add features that aren't available in the default packages the distro provides? | 20:16 |
| ttx | mordred: maybe the wording could be adapted to reflect that | 20:16 |
| mordred | notmyname: I don't think it means that | 20:16 |
| notmyname | me either | 20:16 |
| ttx | notmyname: we already do that, forcing them to package stuff they don't have yet | 20:16 |
| notmyname | in reality, we're talking about python versions (and what distros ship with) and kernel versions | 20:16 |
| mordred | notmyname: I think it means that we won't do things that would cause a situation where the distro could not backport something | 20:16 |
| mordred | notmyname: yeah | 20:17 |
| markmc | libvirt versions too probably | 20:17 |
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| notmyname | so for swift, I can tell a deployer, "go get the LTS release, upgrade the kernel, and go" | 20:17 |
| mordred | I think canonical is even potentially willing to backport libvirt to their cloud archive ... markmc do you think redhat won't do that? | 20:17 |
| mordred | notmyname: yeah. (or at worst, go get the LTS, add the cloud archive, upgrade the kernel and go) | 20:18 |
| markmc | mordred, it gets rebased pretty regularly, but there's still a lag | 20:18 |
| markmc | mordred, we wouldn't put a newer version of libvirt in RH OpenStack than the one that's in RHEL though, no | 20:18 |
| markmc | mordred, just wait for the next RHEL update to rebase libvirt | 20:18 |
| notmyname | markmc: with "upgrade the kernel" actually being optional | 20:18 |
| mordred | markmc: hrm. ok. good to know | 20:19 |
| ttx | mordred: how about s/will endeavor to not/won't (unless the TC grants an exception)/ to clarify language ? | 20:20 |
| *** Guest2218 is now known as annegentle | 20:20 | |
| *** annegentle is now known as Guest62813 | 20:21 | |
| markmc | well, if it's a TC policy just "won't" will do | 20:21 |
| mordred | ttx: I'm ok with that | 20:21 |
| mordred | indeed | 20:21 |
| markmc | we can always just change the policy if the need for an exception arises | 20:21 |
| ttx | "won't" it is then | 20:21 |
| mordred | yeah. what markmc said | 20:21 |
| ttx | Ready to vote ? Or more discussion ? | 20:22 |
| danwent | one thought | 20:22 |
| danwent | adding the (unless…) says that it is OK and normal to grant exceptions. removing implies otherwise. | 20:22 |
| danwent | i'm assuming we want to imply otherwise, which is why we remove? | 20:23 |
| russellb | so with this changed wording, does the motion have to be posted to the ML again, and vote next week? | 20:23 |
| ttx | russellb: no | 20:23 |
| russellb | ok | 20:23 |
| ttx | the ML discussion is for input, fueling our decision | 20:23 |
| russellb | can someone draft the full motion with changes before the vote then? want to make sure i caught it all ... | 20:23 |
| ttx | not to present the ultimate version of the text | 20:23 |
| russellb | k | 20:24 |
| ttx | (especially for a cosmetic clarification) | 20:24 |
| * heckj could really use a synopsis of the latest version of the motion | 20:24 | |
| ttx | same, with s/but will endeavor to/and will/ | 20:24 |
| mordred | https://etherpad.openstack.org/python-support-motion | 20:24 |
| heckj | mordred: thanks | 20:25 |
| ttx | anything else before we vote ? | 20:25 |
| danwent | i still think "unnaturally difficult" is pretty vague, but am fine abstaining :) | 20:26 |
| mordred | we can fix that perhaps... what about just "impossible"? | 20:26 |
| gabrielhurley | "excessively difficult"? or "impossible" is good. | 20:26 |
| danwent | yeah, i think that would be more clear. | 20:26 |
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| mordred | updated | 20:26 |
| russellb | it's just software, almost anything is possible | 20:27 |
| gabrielhurley | russellb: +1 | 20:27 |
| markmc | the devil is in the details | 20:27 |
| mordred | russellb: so far it does not wash my dishes for me | 20:27 |
| markmc | if e.g. we wanted to require a newer version of libvirt than is in RHEL | 20:27 |
| ttx | ok, ready to start vote unless someone objects | 20:27 |
| notmyname | is repackaging python3 as part of your deployment "impossible"? ;-) | 20:27 |
| danwent | markmc: i agree, which is what worries me | 20:27 |
| markmc | we'd have a discussion | 20:27 |
| markmc | it wouldn't be about the definition of "unnaturally difficult" | 20:27 |
| markmc | it would just be about the impact on the RH distro folks if we required it | 20:27 |
| russellb | i could argue that it's possible, even if RHT doesn't ship newer libvirt :) | 20:28 |
| ttx | #startvote Approve proposed motion with paragraph changed as in etherpad? yes, no, abstain | 20:28 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Approve proposed motion with paragraph changed as in etherpad? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. | 20:28 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:28 |
| danwent | i don't really have a stake here, so if the people that do think the wording is sufficient, i'm ok with it. | 20:28 |
| * russellb turns off -fpedantic | 20:28 | |
| markmc | #vote yes | 20:28 |
| mordred | this is a good point ... we aren't lawyers up in here :) | 20:28 |
| notmyname | I'd s/run/deploy/ | 20:28 |
| mordred | #vote yes | 20:29 |
| russellb | #vote yes | 20:29 |
| notmyname | #vote yes | 20:29 |
| ttx | #vote yes | 20:29 |
| bcwaldon | #vote yes | 20:29 |
| danwent | mordred: sometimes i think code reveiewers are worse than lawyers | 20:29 |
| vishy | #vote yes | 20:29 |
| jgriffith | #vote yes | 20:29 |
| danwent | #vote abstain | 20:29 |
| ttx | Ending vote in 30 seconds | 20:29 |
| mordred | danwent: ++ | 20:29 |
| annegentle-itsme | #vote abstain | 20:29 |
| gabrielhurley | #vote yes | 20:30 |
| ttx | #endvote | 20:30 |
| openstack | Voted on "Approve proposed motion with paragraph changed as in etherpad?" Results are | 20:30 |
| openstack | yes (9): markmc, bcwaldon, ttx, notmyname, vishy, russellb, jgriffith, mordred, gabrielhurley | 20:30 |
| openstack | abstain (2): annegentle-itsme, danwent | 20:30 |
| ttx | #agreed Motion accepted with paragraph rewrite | 20:30 |
| ttx | now to go change that volatile etherpad | 20:30 |
| ttx | #topic Update on the "Future of Incubation / core" joint committee | 20:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update on the "Future of Incubation / core" joint committee (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:31 | |
| notmyname | and paste it here for the logs | 20:31 |
| markmc | ok, so we had another meeting before the break | 20:31 |
| mordred | #agreed "OpenStack will target its development efforts to latest Ubuntu/Fedora, | 20:31 |
| mordred | but will not introduce any changes that would make it | 20:31 |
| mordred | impossible to run on the latest Ubuntu LTS or latest RHEL." | 20:31 |
| mordred | gah | 20:31 |
| ttx | #info OpenStack will target its development efforts to latest Ubuntu/Fedora, but will not introduce any changes that would make it impossible to run on the latest Ubuntu LTS or latest RHEL. | 20:31 |
| mordred | thanks. that worked better | 20:31 |
| ttx | So we had a meeting on December 20, slow progress as always | 20:31 |
| ttx | markmc: quick update ? | 20:31 |
| markmc | first we talked about "who are our users", in the context of what we're trying to achieve with "Core status" | 20:31 |
| markmc | and agreed that it was about users of OpenStack clouds, rather than deployers | 20:32 |
| markmc | i.e. the "core" status is about controlling their experience of the OpenStack brand | 20:32 |
| markmc | (IMHO, this is all board territory) | 20:32 |
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| markmc | we talked about "the destination of Incubation" and agreed it is just "included in the co-ordinated release" | 20:32 |
| markmc | i.e. you graduate from Incubation means you're included in the release | 20:33 |
| markmc | but not necessarily in Core | 20:33 |
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| markmc | we came up with the working term "Integrated" to convey the distinction with "Core" | 20:33 |
| * markmc consults https://etherpad.openstack.org/IncUp | 20:33 | |
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| mordred | I agree with the above as reported so far | 20:33 |
| markmc | and we had a bunch more trademark/core related discussions | 20:33 |
| mordred | (both in substance, and that it is being reported accurately) | 20:34 |
| markmc | so not a whole lot in the TC territory, apart from "graduated from incubation" means "integrated in the release" | 20:34 |
| ttx | markmc: I think now we need to work on better separating what's TC territory and what's board territory | 20:34 |
| mordred | really? hrm - I thought that was really clear actually | 20:34 |
| markmc | well, I thought there was good consensus that the TC decides what is "Integrated" and the board decides what is "Core" | 20:35 |
| ttx | mordred: good then. I sometimes felt like everything was controoled by both entities | 20:35 |
| mordred | what I took away was that the idea that incubation and integrated release were all technical matters... | 20:35 |
| mordred | yeah - what markmc said | 20:35 |
| ttx | ok then, all good | 20:35 |
| mordred | because integrated is about technical things, and core is about brand things | 20:35 |
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| markmc | the TC can prevent a project from becoming Core by not allowing it to be Integrated | 20:36 |
| ttx | mordred: that's obvious to me, just wondered if it was clear to the other directors | 20:36 |
| markmc | but apart from that, separate responsibilities | 20:36 |
| russellb | thanks for putting your time into this stuff, guys, and appreciate the update | 20:36 |
| mordred | there was an interesting questoin that alan clark asked: | 20:36 |
| mordred | which was "are there specific quality metrics used by the TC to determine suitability for inclusion, such as defect counts, etc" | 20:36 |
| ttx | yes, we need to do a better job at defining what we require | 20:37 |
| mordred | yeah. one of those times where a question made me think for a bit | 20:37 |
| ttx | I tried to organize the discussion around key questions, like technical qualities etc. | 20:37 |
| ttx | but some metrics couldn't hurt | 20:37 |
| markmc | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/IncUp | 20:37 |
| markmc | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Governance/Foundation/IncubationUpdate2013 | 20:37 |
| markmc | #info the TC decides what is "Integrated" and the board decides what is "Core" | 20:37 |
| ttx | the other interesting question was "can an integrated project call itself "OpenStack X" ?" | 20:38 |
| creiht | if you had the right gates you could automate the incubation process through Jenkins >:) | 20:38 |
| ttx | but I guess that's for next week's episode | 20:38 |
| mordred | creiht: ++ | 20:38 |
| ttx | questions ? | 20:38 |
| ttx | next meeting on Thursday, open to anyone interested and having an hour to kill | 20:39 |
| ttx | (invites not sent yet) | 20:39 |
| mordred | creiht: we could make a TC group and do votes on motions by gerrit code review ... | 20:39 |
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| russellb | gerrit all the things? | 20:39 |
| ttx | ok, no questions, then next topic... | 20:39 |
| heckj | markmc: thanks, good overview | 20:39 |
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| ttx | #topic Discussion: Evolution of the TC membership to support potential growth | 20:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion: Evolution of the TC membership to support potential growth (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:40 | |
| ttx | I would like to kick off the discussion on how to best support further growth of the project while keeping the TC at reasonable size and reasonably representative | 20:40 |
| ttx | Currently we do "all PTLs for core projects + 5 directly-elected", for a total of 13 members. | 20:40 |
| ttx | This becomes a bit of a problem if we add more projects. The committee size grows, and it factors in people decision to accept those projects or not. | 20:40 |
| markmc | there's a question | 20:40 |
| markmc | do we still mean "Core" | 20:40 |
| ttx | It's also an issue as we revisit our definition of "core" vs. "part of the integrated release" | 20:40 |
| markmc | or "Integrated" ? | 20:40 |
| ttx | markmc: ^ | 20:40 |
| markmc | ah | 20:41 |
| heckj | heh | 20:41 |
| ttx | For the Spring 2013 elections I'd like to see a system where the committee size doesn't increase if we accept more (integrated) projects. | 20:41 |
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| mordred | ttx: any idea what the average attendence percentage rate is? | 20:41 |
| ttx | One obvious solution is to say the TC is 13 seats, make all seats elected, and have interested PTLs (from "part of the coordinated release" projects) run for election. | 20:41 |
| ttx | mordred: attendence ? | 20:41 |
| ttx | Last time we raised that solution it was objected that the TC could end up containing no PTL, creating various governance issues | 20:41 |
| ttx | The middle-ground solution, which solves that perceived risk, would be to say: | 20:41 |
| mordred | ttx: like, with 13 members, do we usually have 60% show up? | 20:41 |
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| ttx | mordred: I can do taht analysis | 20:42 |
| ttx | no idea | 20:42 |
| ttx | "TC is 13 seats, make all seats elected, have interested PTLs run for election, and guarantee that /at least/ 8 PTLs are present on the TC at any time" | 20:42 |
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| ttx | That way if PTLs fare well in the election you might just get more than 8 of them in the committee | 20:42 |
| ttx | But if they don't fare that well, you still get the 8 most popular of them on the committee | 20:42 |
| russellb | seems fairly reasonable ... | 20:43 |
| ttx | thoughts ? | 20:43 |
| mordred | I actually think the first one is simpler | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | seems a bit odd to me, but I don't have a better solution | 20:43 |
| russellb | i feel pretty confident that lots of PTLs would be elected anyway | 20:43 |
| mordred | and I'm not too worried about the weird thing | 20:43 |
| creiht | Seems to marginalize projects that "may not fall in line with everyone else" | 20:43 |
| markmc | I prefer the first one | 20:43 |
| ttx | mordred: I like the first one, but can accept the mitigated version if that alkleviates concerns | 20:43 |
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| annegentle-itsme | I like all seats elected | 20:43 |
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| markmc | but if a compromise is needed, the second is better than all PTLs having a guaranteed seat | 20:43 |
| mordred | since the PTLs are elected from populace anyway | 20:43 |
| annegentle-itsme | and is 13 ideal? for an odd number? More than a hung jury or some such? | 20:43 |
| mordred | but yes, not strongly opposed to the compromise | 20:43 |
| annegentle-itsme | or would 9 suffice? | 20:44 |
| * annegentle-itsme just thinking aloud | 20:44 | |
| ttx | creiht: I'm not sure of that. That would marginalize smaller projects, I think | 20:44 |
| mordred | annegentle-itsme: that's kinda why I was asking theirry about the attendence numbers | 20:44 |
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| annegentle-itsme | mordred: okay, yup | 20:44 |
| danwent | what about the PTLs choosing the sub-set of their group that is on the TC? | 20:44 |
| notmyname | danwent: PTLs chosen fromt he TC? | 20:44 |
| danwent | some PTLs may not be interested, or may trust another PTL to represent their interests | 20:44 |
| mordred | danwent: kind of like the foundatoin board does for gold members | 20:44 |
| ttx | creiht: personally I like to have various opinions, so i'd certainly vote for someone that provides constructuve criticism | 20:44 |
| danwent | mordred: yeah | 20:44 |
| gabrielhurley | my concern would be that an all-elected TC could easily skew in perspective, e.g. half the TC are Nova core, and nobody representinc the "higher level services" like Horizon, Ceilometer, etc. would be involved. | 20:45 |
| notmyname | danwent: ah ok | 20:45 |
| danwent | gabrielhurley: i agree | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | gabrielhurley: +1 | 20:45 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: good point, which the "mitigating" proposal addresses, I think | 20:45 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: excellent point | 20:45 |
| danwent | gabrielhurley: but if the PTLs elected it themselves, two small projects could jointly agree on a candidate, and have a high probability of that person being selected. | 20:45 |
| * creiht agrees with gabrielhurley's more constructive observation | 20:46 | |
| mordred | danwent: I betcha if we had the ptls elect their reps, we'd use condorcet or something :) | 20:46 |
| markmc | moar elections plz, thur fun | 20:46 |
| annegentle-itsme | an all-elected is even more of a popularity contest to be gamed… | 20:47 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah, the election process is gonna get *crazy* | 20:47 |
| mordred | markmc: we could do PTL elections via gerrit ... | 20:47 |
| gabrielhurley | ha | 20:47 |
| heckj | heh | 20:47 |
| danwent | mordred: :) | 20:47 |
| markmc | mordred, what would we gate on? | 20:47 |
| mordred | and then add condorcet voting to gerrit reviews! | 20:47 |
| ttx | Who is firmy against the "all elected with a minimum of 8 PTLs from integrated projects" solution ? | 20:47 |
| ttx | firmly* | 20:47 |
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| annegentle-itsme | ttx it's hard to know until "integrated" is defined? | 20:47 |
| notmyname | ttx: not sure yet, but I'm maybe firmly against that :-) | 20:48 |
| ttx | integrated = what the TC wants | 20:48 |
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| annegentle-itsme | ttx: mkay | 20:48 |
| notmyname | ttx: IOW, a self-selected group | 20:48 |
| heckj | IOW? | 20:48 |
| gabrielhurley | just to throw out an idea, what if there were a couple of seats on the TC designated for certain functions that we deem important (a seat for docs, a seat for CI, at least one seat for "higher-in-the-stack projects") | 20:48 |
| mordred | in other words | 20:48 |
| notmyname | in other words | 20:48 |
| heckj | h | 20:48 |
| heckj | ah | 20:48 |
| ttx | No, I mean, "integrated" = the set of projects we decide. What we currently call "core" | 20:49 |
| heckj | gabrielhurley: I liek the idea of purposefully including some specific perspectives | 20:49 |
| heckj | and I can't type worth crap today | 20:49 |
| gabrielhurley | then peopple could run for those seats specifically | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | What about limiting the TC members per project, like we do with classes of members on the board? Candidates could declare which projects they contribute to. | 20:49 |
| ttx | but that we'll have to call something else once "core" becomes a trademark-use category | 20:49 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I contribute to all of them. | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | what about one elected member from each core/integrated plus CI, Docs etc and that's it? | 20:49 |
| russellb | but that doesn't limit TC size | 20:50 |
| ttx | jgriffith: that's ever-growing | 20:50 |
| annegentle-itsme | jgriffith: I think that exposes the growth problem | 20:50 |
| jgriffith | russellb: nope | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | ttx, so have some seats for meta-contributors like you and annegentle-itsme | 20:50 |
| annegentle-itsme | ha like growth is a problem, it's not :) | 20:50 |
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| jgriffith | well personally I think wer'e going to have that regardless | 20:50 |
| russellb | i think growth can be a problem for a committee ... | 20:50 |
| jgriffith | especially when we haven't defined how we address growth anywya and pass it on to the board | 20:50 |
| ttx | I think a 15-person TC doesn't make sense. | 20:50 |
| jgriffith | ttx: fair | 20:51 |
| markmc | we'll be better at making quick decisions if we get a few more members | 20:51 |
| annegentle-itsme | russellb: yep | 20:51 |
| ttx | jgriffith: the problem will happen as soon as (if) we decide that heat and Ceilo pass incubation. | 20:51 |
| * gabrielhurley isn't gonna bring up how many people are on the foundation board... | 20:51 | |
| ttx | anyway, please think about it, we'll continue that discussion next time | 20:51 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I would tend to agree, which leads back to concerns I have regarding the other issues (core/integrated status) | 20:51 |
| mordred | gabrielhurley: yeah. it's too many | 20:51 |
| russellb | gabrielhurley: too many :) | 20:51 |
| markmc | gabrielhurley, hehe, but they're ultra agile :) | 20:51 |
| gabrielhurley | haha, "ultra-agile". nice. | 20:52 |
| ttx | I'd like to have it nailed before we start the Spring election process | 20:52 |
| gabrielhurley | ttx: +1 to figuring it out before then. | 20:52 |
| jgriffith | I'm not disagreeing with it being too many ata ll | 20:52 |
| ttx | Credits to nijaba for suggesting the 'all elected with a minium number of PTLs' idea | 20:52 |
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| notmyname | can the charter of the TC be fulfilled without equal representation from each of the projects? our goal is to manage intra-project conflicts and the coordinated release. how can that be done without representation? | 20:52 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I see that as the best alternative | 20:52 |
| notmyname | if the problem is the size of the TC, then perhaps the solution is to limit what's included in the release (managed by openstack) | 20:53 |
| mordred | notmyname: by the directly elected folks? | 20:53 |
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| jgriffith | notmyname: ++++++++++++++ | 20:53 |
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| mordred | I think that's a thing I specifically want to avoid, personally | 20:53 |
| ttx | I don't think we should limit what's in the coordinated release based on committee bloat fear | 20:53 |
| mordred | yes | 20:53 |
| mordred | if we limit it based on project scope bloat fear, I'm ok with that | 20:53 |
| ttx | we should rather accept some loss of control | 20:54 |
| jgriffith | ttx: but I argue there are bigger problems than comitte bloat | 20:54 |
| mordred | sure | 20:54 |
| creiht | is it possible to categorize core projects, so that there is 1 TC seat per categroy, then the rest are elected? | 20:54 |
| mordred | I just want to actually argue those issues | 20:54 |
| ttx | i.e. trust some people to make the right decisions | 20:54 |
| mordred | and not pass the buck to the inability of a particular arbitrary committee organization to do things | 20:54 |
| ttx | All PTLs would still be able to defend themselves | 20:54 |
| ttx | they just might not have a vote in the final decision | 20:54 |
| ttx | having a vote doesn't prevent bad things from being decided for your project anyway | 20:55 |
| markmc | the TC can't jut ignore PTLs | 20:55 |
| ttx | markmc: +1 | 20:55 |
| notmyname | ttx: true ;-) | 20:55 |
| mordred | and not havint a vote has not prevented me from bitching in this meeting before | 20:55 |
| annegentle-itsme | markmc: agreed | 20:55 |
| gabrielhurley | it's a two-way street, the PTLs need to respect the TC's decisions, but the TC has to weigh the opinion of the PTL very heavily, whether that PTL has a vote or ont | 20:55 |
| gabrielhurley | /ont/not | 20:55 |
| notmyname | but then you have non-members who are effectively members anyway | 20:55 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:56 |
| ttx | checks and balances | 20:56 |
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| russellb | it's like a meritocracy or something | 20:56 |
| gabrielhurley | or something | 20:56 |
| markmc | the TC should be about driving discussions, encouraging consensus and calling what they see as the consensus | 20:56 |
| mordred | it's a somethingtocracy! | 20:56 |
| markmc | if a PTL adamantly disagrees, it's hardly consensus | 20:56 |
| ttx | also TC pushing a decision against a project... that's a failure | 20:57 |
| mordred | ttx: well, we've done it before | 20:57 |
| mordred | there have been times where consensus was impossible | 20:57 |
| annegentle-itsme | so about creiht and the category idea, can you float some categories? | 20:57 |
| ttx | mordred: refresh my memory ? | 20:57 |
| annegentle-itsme | computing, networking, storing, monitoring? | 20:58 |
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| creiht | something like that | 20:58 |
| ttx | annegentle-itsme: Not sure. one issue would be to let the Board of Directors end up controlling who is on the TC | 20:58 |
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| ttx | since they will define "core" | 20:58 |
| mordred | ttx: I would like to veto that | 20:58 |
| annegentle-itsme | I think the categories route stops "pet" projects -- and technical use cases become more central? Possibly? | 20:59 |
| ttx | anyway, time is up, think about it (and alternate solutions) and we'll continue discussion at the next meeting | 20:59 |
| * annegentle-itsme thinks | 20:59 | |
| * heckj nods | 20:59 | |
| russellb | kthxbye! | 20:59 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone, back on getting grizzly-2 out of the door | 21:00 |
| * mordred dances a little bit | 21:00 | |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 8 21:00:04 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-01-08-20.02.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-01-08-20.02.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-01-08-20.02.log.html | 21:00 |
| mordred | ttx: dude. how do you do this meeting schedule weekly | 21:00 |
| mordred | ttx: it's too late! | 21:00 |
| notmyname | annegentle-itsme: creiht: I think categories is the "least bad" idea I've heard so far that solves the claimed problem | 21:00 |
| ttx | mordred: no kidding | 21:00 |
| ttx | mordred: where are you ? | 21:00 |
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| mordred | notmyname: I agree - pending a set of categories | 21:00 |
| ttx | "Where is Monty" is a fun game to play | 21:00 |
| mordred | ttx: bristol, uk | 21:00 |
| ttx | mordred: and you're one hour earlier than me | 21:01 |
| ttx | markmc, heckj, notmyname, bcwaldon, jgriffith, vishy, gabrielhurley, danwent: still around ? | 21:01 |
| heckj | o/ | 21:01 |
| mordred | notmyname, creiht, annegentle-itsme: I actually wrote a draft email a while back suggesting a category approach to projects | 21:01 |
| jgriffith | o | 21:01 |
| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
| markmc | mordred, condolences | 21:01 |
| annegentle-itsme | mordred: write 'er up! | 21:01 |
| gabrielhurley | present | 21:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 8 21:01:41 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:01 |
| ttx | Agenda @ http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:01 |
| mordred | annegentle-itsme: I'll go dig itup | 21:01 |
| ttx | #topic General announcements | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General announcements (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| ttx | #info Next OpenStack Summit will happen in Portland, OR the week of April 15 | 21:02 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: yes | 21:02 |
| ttx | yay west coast again | 21:02 |
| ttx | Note that it leaves only one full week between release and summit week. | 21:02 |
| * heckj wishes it was Seattle | 21:02 | |
| danwent | ttx: yup yup | 21:02 |
| ttx | tried to avoid that but wasn't very successful as you can see | 21:02 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: is there a conflict with the Open Networking Summit? | 21:02 |
| ttx | bcwaldon: yes | 21:02 |
| bcwaldon | yay | 21:02 |
| heckj | derp | 21:02 |
| annegentle-itsme | spring is busy for conferences :) | 21:03 |
| notmyname | yup | 21:03 |
| ttx | markmc, mordred, annegentle, davidkranz: Anything to report from Stable/CI/QA/Docs land ? | 21:03 |
| annegentle-itsme | o/ | 21:03 |
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| ttx | annegentle-itsme: shoot | 21:03 |
| annegentle-itsme | we held our monthly meeting this morning | 21:03 |
| annegentle-itsme | #http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docwebteam/2013/docwebteam.2013-01-08-13.42.html | 21:03 |
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| annegentle-itsme | wanted to ask about the wiki migration, should we re-plan the plan? | 21:03 |
| annegentle-itsme | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docwebteam/2013/docwebteam.2013-01-08-13.42.html | 21:04 |
| ttx | It was mentioned during the CI meeting... | 21:04 |
| ttx | clarkb, mordred: ? | 21:04 |
| ttx | or jeblair ? | 21:04 |
| annegentle-itsme | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ci/2013/ci.2013-01-08-19.03.log.html | 21:05 |
| mordred | aroo? | 21:05 |
| ttx | <jeblair> so maybe we'll check back next week and see if we're at the point of scheduling a cutover date/sprint? | 21:05 |
| ttx | <Ryan_Lane> sounds good | 21:05 |
| annegentle-itsme | Looks like we need the updated skin for the wiki | 21:05 |
| annegentle-itsme | I can send a mailing list update that we're rescheduling the cutover date | 21:05 |
| annegentle-itsme | ok that was all for me | 21:06 |
| ttx | annegentle-itsme: sounds safe. Coordinate with Ryan, he leads this | 21:06 |
| annegentle-itsme | ttx: ok, on it | 21:06 |
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| jeblair | o/ | 21:06 |
| ttx | jeblair: is my summary of the wiki situation fair ? | 21:06 |
| jeblair | ttx: lgtm | 21:06 |
| ttx | Anything to add before we move to project-specific topics ? | 21:06 |
| markmc | #info 2012.2.3 scheduled for January 31st | 21:07 |
| ttx | #topic Oslo status | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:07 | |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/grizzly-2 | 21:07 |
| ttx | markmc: Looking good, only oslo-config-package left | 21:07 |
| ttx | And it's fine to be released post-g2 anyway... defer ? | 21:08 |
| markmc | right, sadly | 21:08 |
| ttx | I'll let you postpone it | 21:08 |
| markmc | I should have chased down more what needs doing for that release | 21:08 |
| markmc | will do that after g2 | 21:08 |
| ttx | We'll look at them next week, but your grizzly-3 goals look realistic given the velocity you achieved in the first two milestones | 21:08 |
| markmc | and aim to have all projects switched over to it for g3 | 21:08 |
| ttx | Agreed. Anything else on the oslo topic ? | 21:08 |
| markmc | yeah | 21:08 |
| markmc | thoughts on tagging a commit at g2 release time ? | 21:09 |
| markmc | i.e. if we're closing bugs as fixed in g2 | 21:09 |
| markmc | there should be a g2 tag to correspond to that, I guess | 21:09 |
| ttx | hmm, maybe at milestone-proposed cut time | 21:09 |
| ttx | that's when I move bugs to FixReleased | 21:09 |
| markmc | sounds good | 21:09 |
| ttx | that would be early tomorrow morning | 21:09 |
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| ttx | would that work for you ? | 21:10 |
| markmc | yep | 21:10 |
| ttx | (we wouldn't cut any branch, obviously, just the tag) | 21:10 |
| markmc | I'll let you know if I think there's a late breaking issue | 21:10 |
| ttx | ok | 21:10 |
| ttx | markmc: anything else ? | 21:10 |
| markmc | nope, thanks | 21:11 |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:11 | |
| ttx | heckj: hi! | 21:11 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/grizzly-2 | 21:11 |
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| ttx | All remaining are now implemented | 21:11 |
| heckj | hey | 21:11 |
| heckj | yep, last one merged in earlier today | 21:11 |
| ttx | OK if I cut the milestone-proposed branch tomorrow morning ? | 21:11 |
| heckj | yep, I believe we're ready to go for a milestone branch | 21:12 |
| ttx | Cool. My main concern here is more how much was deferred | 21:12 |
| ttx | Next week we'll review your G3 objectives... | 21:12 |
| ttx | ...which sound a bit optimistic given the velocity you achieved in the first two milestones :) | 21:12 |
| heckj | significantly more than I would have liked - we're going to have to really trim down on expected output | 21:12 |
| ttx | will do that next week | 21:12 |
| heckj | side note re: Keystone | 21:13 |
| ttx | Anything more about Keystone ? | 21:13 |
| heckj | want to welcome gyee and henrynash to keystone-core as of today | 21:13 |
| ttx | yay | 21:13 |
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| dolphm | heckj: gyee: grats & welcome | 21:13 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: ^ ;) | 21:13 |
| ttx | heckj: anything else ? | 21:14 |
| heckj | that's the big stuff | 21:14 |
| ttx | ok, thx | 21:14 |
| ttx | #topic Swift status | 21:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:14 | |
| notmyname | hi | 21:14 |
| ttx | notmyname: o/ | 21:14 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/swift/+milestone/1.7.6 | 21:14 |
| ttx | You still need to update that with a feature list :) | 21:14 |
| notmyname | indeed | 21:15 |
| ttx | Do you have a date in mind now ? | 21:15 |
| notmyname | no, not yet, but I should have a better idea tomorrow after our swift meeting | 21:15 |
| notmyname | which brings me to... | 21:15 |
| ttx | ack | 21:15 |
| notmyname | we now have a swift meeting | 21:15 |
| notmyname | every other wednesday at 1900 UTC starting tomorrow | 21:15 |
| notmyname | in #openstack-meeting | 21:15 |
| ttx | notmyname: Also don't forget to let me know what you think of my email on the proposed RC process | 21:16 |
| notmyname | ya, I've still got it flagged | 21:16 |
| ttx | (from last year) | 21:16 |
| ttx | Anything more on Swift ? | 21:16 |
| notmyname | just the meeting. that's all I have | 21:16 |
| ttx | thanks! | 21:16 |
| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:17 | |
| ttx | bcwaldon: o/ | 21:17 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/grizzly-2 | 21:17 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: hey | 21:17 |
| * ttx refreshes and prays for a miracle | 21:17 | |
| bcwaldon | no miracles here | 21:17 |
| ttx | Nope, it still doesn't look very good. Is there anything likely to make it today ? | 21:17 |
| bcwaldon | pushed off two BPs to g-3 | 21:17 |
| bcwaldon | I did have a chance to start multiple image locations | 21:18 |
| bcwaldon | and I'm triaging open bugs right now | 21:18 |
| bcwaldon | to answer your question: dont know yet | 21:18 |
| ttx | should we just postpone all blueprints ? i suspect it's unlikely something will get merged before the end of the day ? | 21:18 |
| bcwaldon | fair enough | 21:18 |
| ttx | I'm happy to wait if you think there is a chance | 21:19 |
| bcwaldon | man, the holidays really took a toll on the glance developers | 21:19 |
| bcwaldon | I'll postpone them | 21:19 |
| ttx | I tried to warn you but you kept on being optimistic | 21:19 |
| bcwaldon | fine! I'll start being more of a jerk | 21:19 |
| ttx | The glasses ARE ALL HALF-EMPTY | 21:19 |
| bcwaldon | no blueprints for you | 21:19 |
| * ttx cries | 21:20 | |
| bcwaldon | I will have some bugfixes up for review today | 21:20 |
| bcwaldon | don't worry about us | 21:20 |
| ttx | bcwaldon: shoudl I cut milestone-proposed with the state of master tomorrow morning ? | 21:20 |
| bcwaldon | sure, I'll email you with any blockers (which I don't expect to find) | 21:20 |
| ttx | and then we'll backport the remaining milestone-critical issues ? | 21:20 |
| ttx | ack | 21:20 |
| bcwaldon | bar | 21:21 |
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| ttx | ..and I fear we'll have to reset goals and priorities for g3 because that will make too much | 21:21 |
| ttx | (next week) | 21:21 |
| bcwaldon | ok, we can chat about it | 21:21 |
| bcwaldon | nothing else from me for release meeting | 21:22 |
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| ttx | Any question on Glance ? | 21:22 |
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| ttx | #topic Quantum status | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quantum status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:22 | |
| ttx | danwent: hi! | 21:22 |
| danwent | g'day sir | 21:22 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/quantum/+milestone/grizzly-2 | 21:23 |
| ttx | One left in review | 21:23 |
| danwent | last BP is approved, just not merged | 21:23 |
| danwent | in the queue for merge | 21:23 |
| ttx | oh, great | 21:23 |
| ttx | Then I'll cut milestone-proposed tomorrow morning, should be merged by then | 21:23 |
| danwent | no known bugs that we plan to fix for G-2 | 21:23 |
| danwent | yes, cut away | 21:23 |
| ttx | sounds good | 21:24 |
| ttx | Anything else on Quantum ? | 21:24 |
| danwent | not from me | 21:24 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:25 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: hi! | 21:25 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/grizzly-2 | 21:25 |
| jgriffith | yo | 21:25 |
| ttx | 3 still in progress: | 21:25 |
| jgriffith | :( | 21:25 |
| ttx | volume-type-scheduler: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/14132/ | 21:25 |
| jgriffith | they're all in review | 21:25 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: type-scheduler is having problems getting through gating | 21:26 |
| ttx | hp3par-volume-driver: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18351/ | 21:26 |
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| ttx | update-vol-metadata: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19015/ | 21:26 |
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| jgriffith | I've got a fix for him that should put him in business and get merged today/tonight | 21:26 |
| ttx | OK.. let me know if for any reason I should defer cutting milestone-proposed by a few hours to let something else in | 21:27 |
| ttx | by default I'll assume I can cut and should defer what's not in yet | 21:27 |
| jgriffith | ttx: You're shooting what time? | 21:27 |
| ttx | jgriffith: 09:00 UTC tomorrow | 21:28 |
| jgriffith | ttx: K | 21:28 |
| ttx | but can wait for you to get up | 21:28 |
| ttx | just shoot me an email | 21:28 |
| jgriffith | alright | 21:28 |
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| jgriffith | if they don't get reviewed they don't get reviewed | 21:28 |
| ttx | but deferring is OK. You had a busy milestone already, and your G3 is not really overcrowded | 21:28 |
| jgriffith | It's pride :) | 21:28 |
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| ttx | jgriffith: Anything else you wanted to mention ? | 21:29 |
| jgriffith | no thanks | 21:29 |
| ttx | jgriffith: what about your two g2-targeted bugs... | 21:30 |
| ttx | bug 1083540 | 21:30 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1083540 in cinder "RBD driver option rbd_user is confusing" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1083540 | 21:30 |
| ttx | bug 1083684 | 21:30 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1083684 in cinder "No api parameter validation. " [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1083684 | 21:30 |
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| ttx | if they are not milestone-critical you should postpone them as well | 21:30 |
| jgriffith | No api paramter val is invalid, I'll untarget it | 21:30 |
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| ttx | which makes me think... | 21:30 |
| jgriffith | I haven't heard what Florian wants to do so we'll move that one out too | 21:30 |
| ttx | bcwaldon: still around ? | 21:30 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: yes | 21:31 |
| ttx | bcwaldon: should we keep bug 1020749 on the grizzly-2 list ? | 21:31 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1020749 in glance "Use Openstack-Common notifier" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1020749 | 21:31 |
| ttx | i.e. do we want to backport it ? | 21:31 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: already moved it to g3 | 21:31 |
| bcwaldon | ttx: its technical debt | 21:32 |
| ttx | bcwaldon: ok | 21:32 |
| ttx | thx | 21:32 |
| ttx | heckj: would be good to push https://review.openstack.org/#/c/19091/ -- that's the fix for your only grizzly-2 targeted bug | 21:32 |
| ttx | dolphm, keystone-core: ^ | 21:33 |
| ttx | Sorry about that interlude | 21:33 |
| ttx | back to our regular programme | 21:33 |
| dolphm | ttx: reviewing | 21:33 |
| ttx | Anything more in Cinder ? | 21:33 |
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| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:34 | |
| ttx | vishy: o/ | 21:34 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/grizzly-2 | 21:34 |
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| ttx | A *lot* is under review here, let's see what could make it: | 21:35 |
| ttx | vishy: around ? | 21:35 |
| * russellb is around too fwiw | 21:35 | |
| vishy | hi | 21:36 |
| vishy | sorry | 21:36 |
| ttx | nova-compute-cells: 9 reviews left @ https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/nova-compute-cells,n,z | 21:36 |
| ttx | I'd really have liked to complete this before G2. How close is it ? | 21:36 |
| russellb | no reviews posted on almost all of those yet | 21:36 |
| russellb | not likely to make it unless we rubber stamp | 21:36 |
| russellb | (which i'll admit is tempting sometimes...) | 21:37 |
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| ttx | beh, looks like it will be deferred then | 21:37 |
| ttx | vishy: ? | 21:37 |
| ttx | and maybe concentrate on easier targets | 21:38 |
| vishy | agreed | 21:38 |
| russellb | to clarify, deadline is tonight right? | 21:38 |
| vishy | the good news is the main part of the code went in | 21:38 |
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| vishy | so now it is just cleanup and fixes | 21:38 |
| russellb | yeah, so confidence for grizzly-3 for *all* of it is very high | 21:38 |
| ttx | yes, I can wait a few hours if it helps, but it seems a bit farther away | 21:38 |
| russellb | vishy: some more feature bits, but smaller ... API extension and such | 21:38 |
| vishy | + we decided to make it very clear that cells is experimental for grizzly | 21:38 |
| ttx | ok | 21:39 |
| russellb | aggregate based availability zones could make it | 21:39 |
| ttx | aggregate-based-availability-zones: 2 reviews left @ https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/aggregate-based-availability-zones,n,z | 21:39 |
| russellb | 1 has been approved | 21:39 |
| ttx | ok let's keep it in scope then | 21:39 |
| ttx | i'd like to refine the list so that you can apply review priority on it | 21:40 |
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| ttx | version-rpc-messages: missing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/17965/ | 21:40 |
| vishy | russellb: yes I think that will make it. A competing patch broke a couple of the tests but i think jog0 will have it fixed | 21:40 |
| ttx | hmmm | 21:40 |
| russellb | vishy: awesome | 21:40 |
| vishy | that merged | 21:40 |
| jog0 | working on it now | 21:40 |
| russellb | version-rpc-messages should be done | 21:40 |
| ttx | missing https://review.openstack.org/19229 | 21:40 |
| russellb | ah yes, good point | 21:41 |
| russellb | has 2 +2s | 21:41 |
| russellb | vishy: want to hit approved? :) | 21:41 |
| vishy | just did | 21:41 |
| russellb | thx | 21:41 |
| ttx | hyper-v-testing-serialization-improvements: 3 reviews left @ https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/hyper-v-testing-serialization-improvements,n,z | 21:41 |
| russellb | defer that one IMO | 21:41 |
| ttx | russellb: ok, please do | 21:42 |
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| russellb | dansmith gave him a lot of feedback, i think he's redoing it now | 21:42 |
| ttx | scope-config-opts: looks a bit far away, defer ? | 21:42 |
| russellb | ttx: k, i'll do so | 21:42 |
| russellb | how many patches left | 21:42 |
| russellb | whiteboard says it's all up for review | 21:43 |
| ttx | 18 | 21:43 |
| russellb | oh. well then. | 21:43 |
| russellb | :) | 21:43 |
| vishy | hehe | 21:43 |
| ttx | general-bare-metal-provisioning-framework: I see 5 reviews left @ https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/general-bare-metal-provisioning-framework,n,z | 21:43 |
| russellb | i set it to needs code review at least, i'll defer it | 21:43 |
| ttx | with a few -1s | 21:44 |
| ttx | looks like a defer to me | 21:44 |
| russellb | yeah.. | 21:44 |
| ttx | vishy: is get-password implemented now ? | 21:45 |
| russellb | deferred baremetal | 21:45 |
| vishy | yes | 21:45 |
| vishy | in nova at least | 21:45 |
| vishy | the rest is python-novaclient | 21:45 |
| vishy | :) | 21:45 |
| vishy | and cloud-init | 21:46 |
| ttx | The rest (quota-instance-resource, vmware-compute-driver, rebuild-for-ha, libvirt-volume-multipath-iscsi) look a bit far away. All defer ? | 21:46 |
| ttx | Marking get-password implemented | 21:46 |
| vishy | i think so | 21:47 |
| vishy | rebuild-for-ha is close | 21:47 |
| russellb | defer the rest is good with me ... i can mark them | 21:47 |
| ttx | So the focus should be on "host aggregate based availability zones" for the rest of the day | 21:47 |
| ttx | Unless oen of you tell me otherwise before the end of the day, i'll cut ML based off master tomorrow morning | 21:47 |
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| ttx | if you see something that just needs a couple hours, flag me | 21:48 |
| russellb | vishy: i haven't looked at rebuild-for-ha lately, think it could make it? | 21:48 |
| vishy | yes | 21:48 |
| vishy | in fact most of them are going in now | 21:48 |
| ttx | russellb: 6 reviews in | 21:48 |
| russellb | nice, i'll leave that in g-2 then | 21:48 |
| ttx | awesome | 21:48 |
| ttx | Anything more on Nova ? | 21:48 |
| russellb | should be all updated | 21:49 |
| russellb | all implemented, 2 left needing review | 21:49 |
| ttx | russellb, vishy: there are 3 g2-targeted bugs | 21:49 |
| ttx | please review them and postpone any that you think we can't fix and backport by Thursday | 21:49 |
| vishy | ok | 21:49 |
| ttx | Thanks! | 21:49 |
| ttx | #topic Horizon status | 21:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:50 | |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: still around ? | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | yep | 21:50 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/grizzly-2 | 21:50 |
| ttx | 2 still in progress: | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | File uploads is gonna be deferred | 21:50 |
| ttx | don't look like they have code proposed yet ? Defer ? | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | just talked to david | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | the other one I may get up this afternoon, if not I'll defer along with the associated bug down in the bugs section | 21:51 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: sounds good. | 21:51 |
| gabrielhurley | neither are critical as long as they're close | 21:51 |
| gabrielhurley | I need to check in with a bunch of people about G3 blueprints they've committed to though | 21:51 |
| ttx | Will cut MP tomorrow morning unless you raise your arms and scream | 21:51 |
| gabrielhurley | sounds good | 21:51 |
| ttx | yes, G3 scoping should be a fun game to play now | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | it's not looking awful since there's a broader spectrum of people assigned to the G3 blueprints | 21:52 |
| ttx | last months meetings were kinda boring, but this is getting quickly more interesting | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | but some stuff will undoubtedly go | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | lol | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | indeed | 21:52 |
| ttx | nothing like a good cliff to raise the tension | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | always | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | side note: | 21:53 |
| ttx | shoudl I defer the file upload thing ? | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | oh | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll get it momentarily | 21:53 |
| ttx | done | 21:53 |
| ttx | Anything more on Horizon ? | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | or that | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | lol | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah | 21:54 |
| ttx | any side note ? | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | one thing | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd like to welcome mrunge as the newest member of horizon-core | 21:54 |
| ttx | awesome | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | that's it for me | 21:54 |
| ttx | thx! | 21:54 |
| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:54 | |
| ttx | Anyone from Ceilometer team ? | 21:54 |
| * nijaba waves | 21:54 | |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/grizzly-2 | 21:55 |
| nijaba | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/grizzly-2 | 21:55 |
| nijaba | We have one oustanding bp, for which the review is stuck on a minor disagreement between a couple of our core devs. I am not sure we are going to get resolution before the eod. If that's the latest acceptable time, I'll retarget it for g3. | 21:55 |
| nijaba | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/provide-meter-units | 21:55 |
| nijaba | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18413/ | 21:55 |
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| ttx | sounds good | 21:55 |
| ttx | OK if I cut a milestone-proposed branch for you tomorrow morning ? | 21:55 |
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| nijaba | ok for us | 21:55 |
| nijaba | no outstnading known bugs | 21:55 |
| ttx | that's all I had. We'll see if everything works when I push the big red button | 21:56 |
| nijaba | :) | 21:56 |
| * nijaba crosses his fingers | 21:56 | |
| ttx | I know where to ask if it doesn't | 21:56 |
| nijaba | hehe | 21:56 |
| ttx | Anyone from Heat team ? | 21:56 |
| sdake | yar | 21:56 |
| shardy | o/ | 21:56 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/grizzly-2 | 21:56 |
| ttx | All done -- do I have your green light to cut a milestone-proposed branch from master tomorrow morning ? | 21:56 |
| sdake | g2 good to go for a branch | 21:56 |
| ttx | Awesome. | 21:56 |
| ttx | Questions about the whole shebang ? | 21:57 |
| stevebake | ttx: could we get a rundown of the release process at some point? Maybe in #heat is better | 21:57 |
| ttx | sure, if we can make it quick | 21:57 |
| ttx | i'll close here first | 21:57 |
| sdake | ya - can guess based upon last experiences but more detail would help | 21:57 |
| ttx | so if nobody has anything to add... | 21:58 |
| stevebake | I suspect a lot of our old release instructions will need updating | 21:58 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 8 21:58:23 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-01-08-21.01.html | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-01-08-21.01.txt | 21:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-01-08-21.01.log.html | 21:58 |
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| gabrielhurley | okay | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | let's see here | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | horizon meeting... | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | #startmeeting horizon | 22:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jan 8 22:01:21 2013 UTC. The chair is gabrielhurley. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | we'll go through the updates on what's been happening since it's been a couple weeks, the usual blueprints and bugs, look forward to G3 a bit, and then open the floor | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic General Horizon Status | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General Horizon Status (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:02 | |
| gabrielhurley | G2 is just about closed. The milestone is pared down to mostly what's already happened. We got some great Quantum work in from amotoki and nachi in the last few hours, and jpich got the migrate instace BP done too. Great work. | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | The holidays were slow for OpenStack work for everybody, obviously, but that's okay | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | things are back in full swing now | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | mrunge is now a horizon core reviewer (or will be once I can wrangle launchpad admin priveleges), so he'll help move things forward much more quickly. | 22:04 |
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| gabrielhurley | congrats and thank you for the continuing hard work | 22:04 |
| jpich | Congratulations mrunge \o/ | 22:04 |
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| mrunge | gabriel, thank you for your support | 22:04 |
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| gabrielhurley | #topic Blueprints and Bugs | 22:05 |
| mrunge | I'll try to do my very best here to support here | 22:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints and Bugs (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:05 | |
| gabrielhurley | absolutely, it's appreciated by all of us | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | not much to say on G2 blueprints beyond the kudos already noted. davidlenwell will have a demo of the file upload code up in the next day or so, he's polishing up interface bits currently. | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | bug reports are still quite low, which is fantastic. | 22:06 |
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| mrunge | +1! | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | I think the main thing to talk about blueprint-wise is to look at G3 a bit | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | that's twice as many blueprints as we had in G2, but with twice as many contributors as well | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | so it's not impossible, but also very aggressive | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | let's just start from the top | 22:07 |
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| gabrielhurley | the keystone RBAC stuff is in danger due to the slow-going for Keystone's work in being the source of truth for all the projects' policy files | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | if that comes together I'll try to knock it out, but if it slips again so it goes. it's mostly outside our control | 22:08 |
| * dolphm waves | 22:08 | |
| gabrielhurley | hi dolphm | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | :-) | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | in terms of file upload and glance image creation, my understanding is that davidlenwell has already made good headway on those. I moved the swift multi-file upload out of Grizzly, but depending what the current file upload code looks like we'll see where that goes. | 22:09 |
| mrunge | does anybody know, why the implementation of that rbac thing is slow? | 22:09 |
| mrunge | is there any feedback? | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | dolphm or heckj care to comment? | 22:10 |
| mrunge | because it's great stuff | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | my understanding is simply that it's a big cross-project issue and was also delayed by keystone v3 API work | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | so it's just a matter of time, resources and interest | 22:10 |
| mrunge | ah, I see | 22:10 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: +1 to what you said; although /policies is good to go, /tokens is not, so we're not going to be pushing anyone on to v3 anyway | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | dolphm: my understanding is that the API works, but that it doesn't aggregate all the projects' policy files yet | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | which is the critical bit Horizon needs | 22:11 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: correct | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | cool | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | moving down the list | 22:12 |
| mrunge | thanks for the info! | 22:12 |
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| gabrielhurley | Per-project flavors has been bumped a couple times, and I've been in email contact with Ray. He still indicates he's gonna work on it but it sounds like it still hasn't started. I'll follow up again and update the status accordingly. If anyone else really wants that feature, I'd be happy to reassign it, also. | 22:13 |
| gabrielhurley | Everything quantum-related is being coordinated by danwent, nachi and amotoki and they've been doing great so I'm not worried there | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | Evacuate Host is a tricky one. I need to follow up with the Nova team and see if that's suported across hypervisors now... | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | if it is it's trivial | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | but last I checked only Xen supported it | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | Jumping down past things I've already touched on, we've got the tenant deletion workflow, which our newest contributor vkmc is taking on | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | I've laid out some ideas for her and I'm excited to have her starting | 22:16 |
| mrunge | great! | 22:16 |
| vkmc | Hi! :) | 22:16 |
| jpich | yay vkmc :) | 22:17 |
| vkmc | Will work hard on that | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | we're all happy to help if anything comes up | 22:17 |
| vkmc | Thx, I'm really glad to work with all of you | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | next on deck blueprint-wise is PKI support, which is entirely in ayoung's camp. It was something he proposed at the Grizzly summit and if he is motivated to get it in that's awesome. otherwise there hasn't been a driving concern for making it happen so it could easily move to the H release. | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | I will follow up with him on his thoughts there | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | Next is an unassigned one to add icons to all the action buttons. | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | it's sort of a silly little blueprint but I think it would add a lot to the "feel" of horizon | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | the classes mostly already exist, and we can use Bootstrap's built-in icon set | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | it's mostly just a lot of CSS | 22:19 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: link? | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | anyone who'd like to grab it is welcome to, or I may later on in the G3 cycle | 22:19 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: for pki blueprint | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | dolphm: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/pki-support | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | it's not thorough | 22:20 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: thanks | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | Adam had specific ideas for it | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | I only caught the gist | 22:20 |
| jpich | gabrielhurley: I can take the iconify one on | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | jpich: awesome! | 22:20 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: hmm, alright... i'm not sure what work needs to be done here, if any | 22:20 |
| mrunge | jpich good to know :) | 22:21 |
| gabrielhurley | dolphm: I'll follow up with adam and at least capture a full scope of work. I'll cc you too. | 22:21 |
| ayoung | gabrielhurley, yeah, Trusts has taken longer than I had hoped, leaving PKI support in the "questionable" | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | ayoung: no problem | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | if you'd be open to at least outlining the full scope of work on the blueprint whiteboard that'd be handy | 22:22 |
| ayoung | gabrielhurley, will do | 22:22 |
| dolphm | ayoung: if that doesn't land in grizzly, do we need to revert the default back to uuid for release? | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | since mostly that knowledge is all in your head | 22:22 |
| ayoung | dolphm, No | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | dolphm: no no, that part's fine | 22:22 |
| ayoung | the PKI support I was referring to was the ongoing stuff | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | this is about horizon being able ot utilize the PKI signing code | 22:23 |
| ayoung | if there is more for Horizon... | 22:23 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: ahh, taking advantage of offline validation | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah | 22:23 |
| dolphm | cool | 22:23 |
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| ayoung | gabrielhurley, the only thing that I am aware of was the cookie size issue | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | ayoung: we fixed that | 22:23 |
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| gabrielhurley | we're good for now | 22:24 |
| ayoung | gabrielhurley, but do you hold on to the full PKI token or just the hash? | 22:24 |
| gabrielhurley | just the hash for now. When we get to full PKI support with offline validation and such we'll document that enabling that also requires using a non-cookie session backend | 22:24 |
| ayoung | gabrielhurley, yes. I don't think that there is much more I can do for you beyond that. | 22:25 |
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| gabrielhurley | all good | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | so, next BP... Orderable multiple choice field. This is on me to work with amotoki for specifying the vnic ordering. The two are related so we'll collaborate on a solution. | 22:25 |
| jpich | gabrielhurley: Someone mentioned a possible Javascript solution to that on the mailing list, using jquery UI I think | 22:26 |
| jpich | https://lists.launchpad.net/openstack/msg19738.html - http://quasipartikel.at/multiselect/ | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah, there are definitely options | 22:26 |
| gabrielhurley | it's just a matter of which one ends up being easiest to implement while meeting the needs there | 22:27 |
| mrunge | I think, I remember some multiselect package seen on pypi; Sadly, I don't remember exactly | 22:27 |
| jpich | Cool | 22:27 |
| gabrielhurley | I looked around at ones for Django and didn't find anything that would work. We'll probably end up starting with something like that from the mailing list and/or rolling our own. It's not all that hard to build. | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | I would like to keep jquery UI out of it though | 22:28 |
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| gabrielhurley | I have personal preferences against it and it's a lot of code for a small feature | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | we'll see | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll keep people posted on that one | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | The last blueprint... "Support themes for Horizon"... mrunge registered it and I agree with the idea. mrunge is that something you'd be interested in working on to make that easier? | 22:28 |
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| mrunge | yes, I do | 22:29 |
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| mrunge | but, I don't necessarily target that one for g-3 | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | gotcha. I'm not 100% sure how it got targeted to there actually | 22:29 |
| mrunge | but that was the last one, I could register it | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | 'cuz I don't recall doing it | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | lol | 22:29 |
| mrunge | I targeted that | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | ah | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | cool | 22:30 |
| mrunge | but I think we should delay it before we started :-) | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | heh | 22:30 |
| mrunge | ;-) | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | Let's leave it for now and do some work on planning it out | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | then decide on when to do the work once it's scoped | 22:30 |
| mrunge | yes, will do that | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | cool | 22:30 |
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| gabrielhurley | excellent! that's all the blueprints for G3, and it sounds like we're doin' alright | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | so with that, I'll open it up... | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic General Discussion | 22:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General Discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:31 | |
| gabrielhurley | feel free, anyone | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | I'll give it another minute or two... | 22:32 |
| gabrielhurley | alright then. meeting dismissed. see you all next week! | 22:33 |
| gabrielhurley | #endmeeting | 22:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 22:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jan 8 22:34:03 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-01-08-22.01.html | 22:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-01-08-22.01.txt | 22:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-01-08-22.01.log.html | 22:34 |
| mrunge | thanks! | 22:34 |
| gabrielhurley | :-) | 22:34 |
| jpich | Thanks! | 22:34 |
| vkmc | Thanks :) Nice to meet you all | 22:34 |
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