Thursday, 2013-01-31

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zykes-dhellmann-afk: ping08:00
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jaypipes#startmeeting qa17:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 31 17:00:26 2013 UTC.  The chair is jaypipes. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:00
jaypipesgood morning QAers17:00
afrittoligood morning17:00
mtreinishjaypipes: morning17:01
jaypipeslots of open reviews :(17:01
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* jaypipes bad for not being able to do reviews :(17:01
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chunwangwhy not being able to do reviews?17:02
jaypipeschunwang: w$rk getting in the way :)17:02
jaypipesravikumar_hp: heey17:03
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* jaypipes hoping that afazekas or davidkranz_ might be able to bring me up to speed on what's gone on in tempest over past week.17:03
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davidkranz_jaypipes: Mostly a lot of new code submitted.17:04
davidkranz_jaypipes: And the formal proposal from sdague  to gate all projects (except horizon) on full tempest.17:04
jaypipesyes, I saw that17:04
davidkranz_jaypipes: I'm not sure why the reviews have piled up but we should discuss that.17:05
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mtreinishdavidkranz_: afazekas has pushed >50% of the current queue17:05
jaypipesdavidkranz_: lack of reviewers/approvers is my guess ;)17:05
mtreinishI'm sure that has something todo with it17:05
davidkranz_jaypipes: Yes, but the question is why?17:05
jaypipesdavidkranz_: people working on other things, I assume17:06
davidkranz_Speaking for myself, I don't know anything about the boto stuff so did not feel I could review it.17:06
jaypipes#topic performance of tempest17:07
*** openstack changes topic to "performance of tempest (Meeting topic: qa)"17:07
jaypipesI'd like to get an update from sdague and others about the testtools conversion and improvments in performance.17:07
davidkranz_jaypipes: OK, but I want to go back to the review topic later.17:07
mtreinishjaypipes: sdague can't make it today17:07
jaypipesmtreinish: do you have enough info about the topic to speak on it?17:08
mtreinishjaypipes: unfortunately, not really. I know that the testtools conversion got merged, but I don't know about the status of testr17:08
jaypipeswe will leave that to next week then17:09
jaypipes#topic Reviews17:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:09
jaypipesdavidkranz_: I also don't know much about the Boto stuff which is why it's been difficult to do for me.17:09
davidkranz_jaypipes: Tempest has become very broad.17:10
jaypipesdavidkranz_: yes indeed.17:10
ravikumar_hpjaypipes: our team is writting boto tests for Ec2 .17:10
ravikumar_hpJaypipes: do you think developers can review17:10
jaypipesravikumar_hp: which developers?17:10
ravikumar_hpNova dev team that supports Ec2 ..17:11
davidkranz_jaypipes: I think we need to subdivide into groups that can review particular topics.17:11
davidkranz_Or in some cases not try to verify every aspect of the tests which involves detailed understanding of the api.17:11
ravikumar_hpdavidkranz_: +117:11
jaypipesravikumar_hp: tough to identify those people...17:11
davidkranz_This is not ideal but we need to change something.17:11
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davidkranz_How about this:17:13
jaypipesdavidkranz_: perhaps we just need to institute tempest review days17:13
davidkranz_If a submission goes more than 24 hours with no review, some one with less specific knowlege can review it.17:14
jaypipesdavidkranz_: anyone should be able to review any patch at any time...17:14
jaypipesdavidkranz_: if the reviewer is not a subject matter expert, they can still comment on style, robustness, and other things.17:15
davidkranz_jaypipes: Right. So we could say that a core review +1 means "style, etc" is OK but not verified all the functions.17:15
davidkranz_But what if no one feels comfortable giving a +2?17:16
jaypipessure, that makes total sense, and that's pretty much what I've been doing17:16
davidkranz_jaypipes: OK, then the issue may be (lack of) review days.17:16
jaypipesdavidkranz_: if nobody feels comfortable +2ing then we need to bring in the devs from Nova and other projects to make a decision17:16
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davidkranz_So how long should a submitter expect to wait for an approval?17:17
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jaypipesdavidkranz_: but I still think review days are upon us17:17
jaypipesdavidkranz_: right now... upwards of a week, which is unacceptable17:17
davidkranz_I would like a 24 hour turnaround ideally.17:17
jaypipesdavidkranz_: we should endeavour to keep it <48 hours IMHO17:17
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jaypipesdavidkranz_: for at least an initial comment on the review17:17
davidkranz_jaypipes: Do you know how review days are set up on other teams?17:18
jaypipesdavidkranz_: in addition, adding more people to oepnstack-qa-core would be helpful.17:18
ravikumar_hpdavidkranz_: jaypipes: yes . better less tahn 24 hrs as many reviews go through 4 or 5 patches17:18
jaypipesdavidkranz_: it's up to the PTL in other dev teams...17:18
davidkranz_jaypipes: OK, just looking for an example to follow.17:19
jaypipesdavidkranz_: I think we need to have weekly review captains to herd everyone and get reviews pushed17:19
davidkranz_jaypipes: Yeah. Is there a way to "request review" if you are not the submitter?17:19
davidkranz_The button doesn't seem to work.17:19
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jaypipesdavidkranz_: if it doesn't work, it's a bug and notify mordred17:20
* afazekas here17:20
davidkranz_That's what the captain needs to do17:20
davidkranz_The button works if I am the submitter but I can't add a reviewer to some one else's change.17:20
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davidkranz_jaypipes: Grr, I think I misunderstood the UI. Never mind.17:21
jaypipesdavidkranz_: k17:21
davidkranz_Should we maintain the captain list in an etherpad or wiki?17:21
jaypipesdavidkranz_: yes, I think so.17:21
ravikumar_hpdavidkranz_: I was able to add reviewers ..17:21
davidkranz_ravikumar_hp: I misunderstood the UI.17:22
ravikumar_hpin UI for others submission17:22
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jaypipesdavidkranz_: so I would propose: 1) increase number of people on openstack-qa-core, 2) have weekly review captain on rotation, and 3) have qa-core members assigned to review days of week.17:22
chunwangBTW, what's the qualification to be a patch reviewer of tempest?17:23
davidkranz_jaypipes: Sounds good.17:23
jaypipeschunwang: nothing.17:23
jaypipeschunwang: anyone is encourage to do reviews17:23
davidkranz_jaypipes: I would also have an entry for each project where people can put their names as knowing something about it.17:23
jaypipeschunwang: however only members of openstack-qa-core can +1 Approve a patch.17:23
jaypipessorry, +2 Approve...17:23
jaypipesdavidkranz_: excellent. can you handle creating those pages?17:23
ravikumar_hpjaypipes: +1 , 1) 2) is fine17:24
davidkranz_jaypipes: That list could be use by the captain to add reviewers when necessary.17:24
jaypipesdavidkranz_: ++17:24
davidkranz_Sure. Etherpad is easier to edit but wiki is less subject to screwup.17:24
davidkranz_jaypipes: I'll go with the wiki.17:25
chunwangjaypipes: got it17:25
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jaypipesOK, so there are a number of folks that could be proposed to qa-core... I will be watching over the next couple weeks for folks who are actively doing reviews and following up. and I will propose those folks for qa-core17:26
jaypipesI will send out an email shortly saying that.17:26
davidkranz_ravikumar_hp: Can you guys review the boto stuff today?17:26
ravikumar_hpdavidkranz_: will try .17:26
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davidkranz_Guess I'm captain this week :)17:27
jaypipesdavidkranz_: indeed17:27
ravikumar_hpdavidkranz_: do you have the review id/subject handy  ?17:28
afazekasdavidkranz_: link ?17:28
davidkranz_ravikumar_hp: There are several of them in the queue.17:28
mtreinishafazekas: I think davidkranz_ is talking about your boto patches17:29
davidkranz_mtreinish: That's right.17:29
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afazekasdavidkranz_: ok, I thought I forget to review one change ..17:30
davidkranz_afazekas: We need to review your changes.17:30
davidkranz_afazekas: You are doing a lot of stuff and it would help is there were blueprints that provided some context for reviewers.17:31
afazekasdavidkranz_: small changes17:31
jaypipesemail sent...17:32
afazekasdavidkranz_: bug fix and reformating mostly17:32
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davidkranz_afazekas: I understand but we need to be careful about changing code just because we like it better a different way.17:33
mtreinishafazekas: Along this note, I meant to ask if any of the reformats are related can you put them in a series with the same branch. Even just that would help with the context.17:33
jaypipesmtreinish: ++17:33
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davidkranz_Any other topics?17:36
mtreinishdavidkranz_: there is the coverage analysis I've been doing17:36
jaypipesdavidkranz_: none from me. I'm eager to get on reviews...17:36
mtreinishI sent a mail out to the list about it17:36
jaypipesmtreinish: oh yeah... how is that going?17:36
afazekasmtreinish: now these changes are mostly independent, but  mostly have second step, but these next step codes are even not created17:36
Shree_Quantum_HPdavidkranz_: yes we will like to discuss more about it17:37
mtreinish and
jaypipesafazekas: I don't understand that last comment... could you explain?17:37
jaypipesmtreinish: ah, well done.17:37
mtreinishjaypipes: it's going well, I've found some gaps, mostly on negative tests17:37
mtreinishI'm still not done, but this what I've found so far17:38
afazekasjaypipes: I modified lot of different unrelated part of the tempest , without marking the comment to dependent to each other17:38
jaypipesafazekas: that makes reviews quite difficult...17:38
afazekasjaypipes: As I said the bug fix commits will be continued some code cleanup17:38
afazekasjaypipes: can I fix multiple unrelated bugs in one commit ?17:39
jaypipesafazekas: yes17:39
jaypipesafazekas: but only if they are small...17:39
afazekasjaypipes: can I do code reformatting and reorganization, in bugfix commit ?17:40
jaypipesafazekas: what I was saying is that it is difficult to review stuff that is *both* fixing a bug AND changing formatting or style because you prefer something some different way in the code17:40
jaypipesafazekas: In addition, commit messages must be more descriptive :)17:41
davidkranz_afazekas: I think code reorganizations should be discussed before code is submitted for review if it is significant.17:41
jaypipesafazekas: example:
jaypipesafazekas: Fixes *what* about boto intialization?17:41
afazekasnow all bot test are skipped17:42
davidkranz_Reorganization is expensive both to reviewers and in lost knowlege of where things are and how they work.17:42
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jaypipesafazekas: what I am saying is that you need to make the commit messages more descriptive, otherwise reviewers don't really understand what the patch is attempting.17:42
davidkranz_jaypipes: And why.17:42
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afazekasMay be it was obvious just for me :)17:44
chunwangfor the ssh related test, I suppose they will be impacted when quantum applied, since the host cannot ping vm directly in quantum. Is there any change on the way to fix this?17:44
jaypipesafazekas: yes, always err on the side of being TOO descriptive :)17:44
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jaypipeschunwang: I'm sorry, I'm not catching you...17:45
jaypipeschunwang: what about Quantum prohibits a VM from being reachable via SSH?17:46
mlavallechumwang: no, it doesn't17:47
chunwangafter quantum applied, the network related execution should add network uuid, since they are in different namespaces17:47
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chunwanglike "ping <vm ip>" should be "ip netnc exec <network uuid> ping <vm ip>"17:49
chunwangssh is similar...17:49
jaypipeshmm, I think we will need some documentation about that...17:50
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jaypipesOK, do we have any further discussion before we wrap up?17:51
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jaypipesOK, wrapping up...17:52
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:52
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 31 17:52:32 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:52
openstackMinutes (text):
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 31 18:00:01 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:00
bdpayne#info Welcome security group!18:00
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bdpayneIn our meeting last week, we were a bit rushed at the end, so I wanted to pick up there and see if there was any discussion18:00
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bdpayneBut first, one quick house keeping item18:01
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bdpayne#topic LXC Security Note18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "LXC Security Note (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:01
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1098582 in osn "Note: Security impact of Libvirt/LXC usage" [High,Confirmed]18:01
bdpayne#info This security note is about ready to go, looking for final comments and then we'll release it.18:02
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bdpayneAny comments / discussion on the note?18:02
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bdpayneHrm, before I continue… do we have people attending the security meeting?18:04
mtesauroYou're talking about the note here right?18:04
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1098582 in osn "Note: Security impact of Libvirt/LXC usage" [High,Confirmed]18:04
Chris___Yes, i am here for security meeting18:04
bdpaynehigh, yes, that's the one18:04
bdpaynegreat, glad to see some folks here18:05
lauraglendenningI'm here as well18:05
mtesauroThe final version (2013-01-23) looks fine to me18:05
bdpayneok, thanks18:05
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mtesauroIs that some sort of markdown/asciidoc-ish markup or just nice text formatting on the ###'s18:05
bdpayne#info If anyone has further feedback on the note, please get it in by the end of the day today18:06
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bdpayneI think that's markdown18:06
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bdpayne#topic Storage Encryption18:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Storage Encryption (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:07
mtesauroCool.  We should probably note that somewhere in case someone want to consume and format the notes externally18:07
bdpayneok, let's pick up where we left off last week18:07
bdpaynesure, makes sense mtesauro18:07
bdpayne#info There are two open proposals for different kinds of storage encryption right now18:08
bdpayne#info object encryption (swift) by Intel18:08
bdpayne#info volume encryption (cinder) by APL18:08
bdpaynehas anyone reviewed these?  any discussion, thoughts, comments, etc?18:09
Chris___i have not reviewed.  still trying to get my bearings in this community. :)18:09
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mtesauroI haven't gotten to that yet but its on my short list.  Should have comments by next meeting18:09
bdpaynenp, I actually have some thoughts one where people can participate and help out18:09
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bdpayneok, sounds good… I think that storage encryption is useful and a nice addition to openstack18:10
bdpayneI've certainly heard from lots of users that it is desired18:10
Chris___agree.  i think it will really help build confidence in user community18:10
bdpayneI wonder if there's utility is trying to get some symmetry between these two proposals18:10
Chris___if done well, that is18:10
rellerrellerBoth of them involve key managers, so that should be discussed at some point18:10
bdpayneor if it is better to wait and do that later18:10
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bdpayne#action Let's all try to review these and think about how they will fit together over the next week18:11
bdpayneany other thoughts on storage encryption?18:12
Chris___do we have a security policy in mind which describes threats we are, and are not, trying to address with encryption?18:12
bdpaynegood question18:12
bdpaynethe short answer is no18:12
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bdpaynebut I did provide some comments on the APL proposal this morning, asking questions about just that18:13
bdpaynethis is another area where I think it would be useful to get some alignment between the proposals18:13
bdpayneand, really, for openstack at large18:13
rellerrellerWe received the feedback.  Thank you.18:13
Chris___yes, in my experience, security policy should be precursor to any evaluation discussion18:13
mtesauroit is nice to know the problem that we're trying to solve with encryption18:14
bdpaynecoming up with a general security policy for all of openstack would be a huge project18:14
Chris___don't have to boil the ocean18:14
Chris___just deal with encryption for now.18:15
bdpaynebut, I do agree that some more crisp understanding of the threats being addressed is good18:15
bdpayneyeah, agreed18:15
Chris___maybe a good topic for upcoming summit?18:15
bdpayne#action Let's refine the security models for the storage encryption schemes18:15
bdpayneI always like to see more security discussion at the summit18:16
bdpayne#topic Open Discussion18:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:16
Chris___in the meantime, i will try to review the proposals18:17
rellerrellerAny feedback would be much appreciated18:17
bdpayne#info so I wanted to open up the discussion a bit to see what other security related things are on people's minds and where the group can help18:17
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bdpaynethere is one that has caught my attention18:18
bdpayne#info python code in rootwrap18:18
bdpaynebased on what I saw at the last summit, I think that there's probably a lot of security work going on within openstack18:19
bdpayneand probably a lot going on in silos18:19
Chris___... probably at differing levels of competency.18:20
bdpaynewell, sure… hopefully that's where we can help18:20
bdpaynewhere has everyone been involved to date?18:20
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Chris___i am still very new to group and am still in (rapid) learning mode18:21
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bdpaynethis is something worth thinking about for everyone18:22
noslzzpIs there a project that addresses overall security status from instrumentation and/or integrity point of view?18:22
noslzzp(also new to the group, btw)18:22
bdpaynenot sure what you are getting at with that question18:22
bdpaynebut, in terms of openstack, we are the only active security effort that I'm aware of … and we're just getting started ;-)18:23
bdpaynethere is the vulnerability management team, but they are more reactive18:23
bdpayne(a good thing, but complementary)18:23
noslzzpExample:  given a particular compute node, is there any finger printing of the configuration state?18:23
mtesauroI've been testing the OpenStack implementation at Rack - mostly dynamic testing of API's as well as code reviews, etc.18:24
mtesauroSome infrastructure work as well but mostly in the AppSec space.18:24
bdpayneok, great18:24
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bdpaynethat's certainly a big piece of what I think is needed18:24
bdpaynefuzzing, code review, blueprint review, etc18:24
noslzzpi agree.18:24
bdpayne#topic Next Steps18:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Next Steps (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:24
bdpayne#info So, I wanted to call out a few specific places where I think people can help today18:25
bdpayne1) we need help putting together the hardening guide18:25
bdpayneFirst steps there are reviewing the outline.txt file and then helping to write sections18:26
bdpayneAnyone that is interested, please drop me a line and I'll get you engaged18:26
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bdpayne2) I'd like to see about pairing OSSG members with the core projects18:26
rellerrellerIs there a timeline when things are planned to be done for the hardening guide?18:27
rellerrellerWhen do you want feedback by?18:27
bdpayneThis way we can more easily track where the security problems are, and bring information back to the group about when code reviews are needed, etc18:27
bdpayneI'd like to get the hardening guide in some alpha form by the summit18:27
bdpayneAnd it will surely continue to grow from there18:28
bdpayneSo, if you are already engaged in a core project, then perhaps you could be the OSSG rep18:28
bdpaynejust a liaison between the projects18:28
bdpayneif you aren't, but are interested, then perhaps start getting engaged and see if it's a good fit18:29
bdpayne#topic Final Words18:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Final Words (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:29
bdpayneanything else?18:29
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noslzzpHas anyone looked at what the DISA STIGs provide?  We can probably embrace and extend quite a bit from there.18:29
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bdpayneI have not, but perhaps you can send some pointers?18:30
Chris___nor i.18:30
noslzzp#link (RHEL)18:30
bdpayneok, we can continue discussion via email, on the dev channel18:31
bdpaynethanks guys18:31
Chris___one question.18:31
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:31
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 31 18:31:12 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:31
openstackMinutes (text):
bdpayneChris___ sure soot18:31
bdpayneer shoot18:31
Chris___have we/you though about voice telecoms? (newbie question)18:31
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bdpayneIRC seems to be the way for openstack meetings18:32
Chris___hmmm... seems a bit cumbersome.18:32
bdpaynetelecom could be useful in addition, but there are many benefits to IRC18:32
Chris___yes, irc great for impromptu small groups18:32
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mordredjaypipes: what did I do?20:27
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garykgilad_: hi20:55
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hemnanova meeting?21:01
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garykhope so21:01
hemnaare we all waiting for reviews? :P21:02
dansmithhemna: what review are you waiting for?21:03
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hemnaFibre Channel support21:03
dansmithhemna: link?21:03
dansmithI'll see if I can find something wrong with it to make you happy :)21:03
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dansmithvishy: around?21:04
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garykdansmith: is there the nova meeting now?21:06
dansmithgaryk: supposed to be, but vishy and russellb don't seem to be around21:06
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dansmithwho all is around with grievances to air? not much point in doing it if the principals aren't around, but if we need to do it, we can21:07
dansmithgaryk: did you have something to discuss or are you just hanging out?21:08
dansmiththe agenda looks sparse to me21:08
dansmithgaryk: oh are you ensembles?21:08
garykdansmith: we wanted to discuss the vm groups21:08
garykyeah, the ensembles21:08
dansmithwell, presumably with more than just me and hemna :)21:08
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garykyou guys are welcome to take a look at (a review for a review)21:09
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kmartinI'm here but I work with hemna :)21:09
krtaylordansmith, can't you just use the # startmeeting command so we get this logged?21:09
dansmithkmartin: hrm, then -1 for you :)21:09
dansmithkrtaylor: yes, but I'm trying to figure out if it's worth having without vishy or russellb21:09
krtaylorah, ok21:10
dansmithsounds like probably not21:10
kmartindansmith: heh21:10
garykrussellb: is on a plane. so i guess he will not attend21:10
dansmithgaryk: I say we give them five more minutes and then call it on account of the fifteen minute rule ;)21:10
dansmithgaryk: that wouldn't stop a dedicated developer...21:10
garykok. np.21:11
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hemnagaryk, looks like you are going to add more to this patch?21:11
dansmithokay now, if you guys are going to chat about it, we better actually do it :)21:12
garykhemna: not sure at the moment. originally i though that i had to, then after looking at the cell code i do not think that i need to21:12
dansmith#startmeeting nova21:12
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 31 21:12:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is dansmith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:12
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:12
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:12
dansmith#topic vm-ensembles21:12
*** openstack changes topic to "vm-ensembles (Meeting topic: nova)"21:12
vishysorry guys21:12
dansmith#chair vishy21:12
openstackCurrent chairs: dansmith vishy21:12
vishyi just ran out for lunch an i was late21:12
garykbon apetite21:12
hemnawe are just complaining about reviews in here anyway21:12
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vishywho all is here?21:13
dansmithhemna: man, you really know how to get people to review your stuff, huh?21:13
hemnadansmith, I was just joking21:13
vishyi don't see comstud or markmc21:13
vishywell lets discuss ensembles anyway21:14
garykwhere should we start?21:14
vishyi think the biggest request so far is to identify what you can't do with the current scheduler data21:14
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vishyi.e. why is different_host not enough21:14
garykas we have shown in the document it is best that scheduler has the whole picture and does not doe it in a pience meal fasion21:15
garyk(sorry it takes me a while to write)21:15
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garykthere can be cases when the scheduling could lead to false negative admission control21:16
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garykmore specifically when the host capacity allocation is high21:16
garykthe best way to do this is do have the scheduler make a "group" scheduling decision.21:17
kmartin#link  (for the new people)21:17
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garykwe provide a solution which uses anti affinity to ensure server fault tolerance21:18
garyksorry, host fault tolerance21:18
vishygaryk: so the question is: is that small failure scenario enough to warrant the extra complication21:18
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vishygaryk: it will still have to have some pretty smart logic in how to schedule the whole group and deal with all sorts of weird race conditions21:19
vishygaryk: so it may not even be feasible to do so21:19
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garykvishy: we feel that this can occur, the false negative, quite often.21:19
garykespecially when the host allocation capacity is high21:20
dansmithhmm, I thought the goal of this stuff was something different, other than fault tolerance21:20
garykthere are 2 goals:21:20
garykwe started with high availability via anti affinity21:21
garykand we are strving to add network proximity to improve performance21:21
garykso it will be HA and performance21:21
garykHA and performance are the major aspects of service level or quality of service21:22
garykvishy: the proposed solution lowers the chance of problems. it does not prevent them complete;ly21:23
vishyi'm not totally convinced that it is better to do this via complicating the scheduler vs doing simple hints and try, retry21:23
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gliksonin fact, I think the proximity scenario (e.g., for HPC or Hadoop workloads) is a rather strong case to require group scheduling, which can not be easily achieved with sequential provisioning..21:24
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vishyglikson: but in that case why not just do a hint for host aggregates21:24
vishyI think trying to make the scheduler too smart will lead to a lot of hard to find bugs21:25
gliksonwell, how would you ensure that the first instance is provisioned in a location wit henough capacity "nearby"?21:25
vishyglikson: you wouldn't21:25
vishyif there isn't enough capacity it would fail and try again21:25
garykvishy: all of the inaformation can be passed by hints. the sceduling hould just be done at one time.21:25
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gliksonvishy: how retries would help? wouldn't the weighting function return the same result?21:26
vishygaryk: i suppose we already do group scheduling, can we do this by just using the currentmulti_boot code?21:27
vishyas in simply change how instances are allocated when you do -n 521:27
garykvishy: this is possible. one would just need to know when the group ends.21:27
vishythat seems simple enough21:27
vishygaryk: nova boot -n 5 --hint same-network21:28
vishyor something like that21:28
garykvishy: there are 2 issues with this21:28
garyk1. this is done with the same type of vm's and does not cater for heterogenous groups of vms (like we provided in the document)21:29
garyk2. the current implementation does not have anti affinity support for the group opertaion (which is a very simple patch)21:29
vishyso i would suggest we do 2 first21:30
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garyki think that the first case has more weight in the sense that if thescheduler has the whole pcture then it can make te best decision.21:30
vishythat seems like an obvious win21:30
vishythen i guess we need to support passing multiple requests in together21:30
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garyk#2 is similar t what has already been implemented int he proposed review.21:31
vishyrussellb: isn't really here to complain :)21:31
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garykit just extends that to be more than one group21:31
garykrussellb: is on a plane21:31
vishycan you link the review btw?21:31
garykwe are sitting at -2 due to not supporting cells. but i think that it does support cells (i need a claficication from chris)21:32
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dansmithshall we move on?21:35
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garykdansmith: can we just continue with one more issue21:35
dansmithgaryk: if you've got one, it just seemed like the conversation had faded out21:36
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garyki was wondering if we need to talk about storing the group information. the initial plan was to store it int he meta data21:36
vishyok we will wait for comstud21:37
garykwhat i am trying to say is that we need to store the group information21:37
vishygaryk: why do we need to store it?21:37
garykvishy: we need to store it for future use.21:38
garykvishy: that is future rescheduling of vm's that need to comply with the policy21:38
gliksonor adding more VMs that should comply to the same policy (group elasticity)21:38
garykan example of this is host maintenace. when moving the avtice vm's we should still strive for the network proximity an affinity21:39
vishygaryk: ok we need to save hints as well in that case21:39
gliksongaryk: host maintenance is a bit sensitive topic now, if you follow the review on it :-)21:40
vishystoring it in system_metadata seems ok21:40
garykvishy: that works for us at the moment.21:40
vishy#link novaclient/shell.py21:40
vishy#action comstud to give feedback on cells21:40
vishy#action initial patch to simply extend multi-boot to schedule with hint21:41
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vishy#Info initial patch to simply extend multi-boot to schedule with hint21:41
garykvishy: for that we will need first and last (i.e. be able to do with heterogenous vm's)21:42
vishy#info later patches to add support for heterogeneous guests21:42
vishygaryk right either first and last or pass the whole list at once21:42
vishypersonally thinking the whole list at once will be cleaner21:42
vishyok lets move on21:42
garykvishy: ok. thanks!21:43
* dansmith added to the agenda a minute ago21:43
vishy#topic Full Tempest Gate21:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Full Tempest Gate (Meeting topic: nova)"21:43
vishysdague: around?21:43
dansmithvishy: so, this is me fighting sdague's battle21:43
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dansmithvishy: he wants you to go +1 that patch :)21:43
vishythat is very cool21:44
dansmithwhat is wrong with me and my link pasting?21:45
dansmithI'm like some sort of blabbering idiot this week.. must be the post-vacation syndrome21:45
hemnawhat's a vacation?21:46
dansmithvishy: see the +1, thanks, we can move on now :)21:46
vishyso anything else to discuss there21:46
dansmithnot if you're good with it21:46
vishythat is a pretty short list for missing tests21:46
vishytempest has come a long way21:47
dansmiththey're coverage-based missing tests :)21:47
vishy#topic Grizzly-3 review21:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Grizzly-3 review (Meeting topic: nova)"21:47
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vishyonly 50 blueprints!21:48
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vishyso mainly it is review review review21:48
dansmithno-db-compute is getting really damn close21:48
vishyif there are any that you know aren't going to make it let me know21:49
vishydansmith: don't forget about set-password21:49
dansmithvishy: yeah,. it's on the list21:49
hemnaI'm trying to do more reviews of other folks' stuff to help out21:49
vishyalso we lost our volunteer for
vishyso if anyone wants to grab the patch and clean it up...21:49
dansmithvishy: help me reduce my to-be-reviewed queue and I'll get to it sooner :D21:49
vishyi would also really like to make it21:50
vishythere has been a lot of discussion on the ml21:50
vishyi also see that there are 3 new unapproved bps21:51
kmartinvishy: what's the process for cinder folks helping with nova reviews?21:51
vishythis one needs reviews
vishykmartin: feel free to review stuff21:52
vishyi'm going to try and do lots of reviews over the next few days21:52
hemnathanks for the suggestions, I'll look at those as well fwiw21:53
dansmithI did a bunch today hoping to win karma for my own patches :)21:53
dansmithmost of which are just a single tick away21:53
vishy#topic bugs21:54
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:54
kmartinvishy: ok, should we just comment or give out -1  or +1 without have a bunch of experience in nova I don't want to step on anyones toes?21:54
vishywe are going up a bit21:54
vishyso we need to remember to review those21:54
dansmithnot too bad for this point in the cycle though, it seems21:54
vishykmartin: always give +1 -1 if you feel it is appropriate21:54
vishyalso we have lots of bugs in novaclient21:54
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vishyfree cookies21:55
vishyplease help triage21:56
vishyi realize we will be switching focus to bugs soon but lets not let it get too far21:56
vishy#topic open discussion21:56
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:56
vishyanything else?21:56
cburgessvishy: I would like to discuss if possible.21:56
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cburgessWe have been working on a draft review for it based upon how we implemented it in our essex product.21:57
vishycburgess: ok shoot21:57
cburgessWanted to see if anyone has any opinions on the blueprint before we post the review.21:57
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cburgessAt preset we are implementing 2 flags.21:57
cburgess1 to control turing it off/on and another to specifty the location to store the deleted instances.21:58
vishycburgess: i don't see the benefit of a new option over the current soft delete implementation21:58
cburgessits up to each driver to implement support. We have a periodic job in the manager to do the cleanup that again each driver that wants to support it needs to implement.21:58
cburgessCurrent soft deleted does not cover the 2nd and 3rd condition we outline in the blueprint.21:58
cburgessErrors arrising from live migrations and user issuing a "stop" and "start" action via the API.21:59
vishycondition 3 doesn't exist anymore21:59
vishystop and start doesn't delete the instance21:59
cburgessAhh ok cool. We shall remove that then.21:59
cburgessIt doesn't re-image anymore?21:59
vishyso i would prefer solving condition 2 by another means21:59
vishycburgess: no it just powers off the vm21:59
cburgessHmm well I guess we could add some logic into the post migrate to do an m5sum on the disk images or something before cleaning up on the source.22:00
vishycburgess: i would repurpose your stuff as configuring how long to keep the vm around during migrate22:00
vishyif it is a real issue22:00
vishymd5 sum would be a great idea, but since it is live...22:00
vishythey won't match22:00
cburgessWe've seen it happen a few times. Usually it involves also triggering some type of kvm/qemu or libvirt bug the result is the same, data gets nuked.22:01
vishycburgess: so we should keep migrated disks around for a while22:01
cburgessYeah thats the issue I was thinking. I don't know of a truly unique fingerprint/checksum we could use on the disk.22:01
vishycburgess: or...22:01
vishywe could force a resize_confirm like we do with non-live migrate22:01
cburgessvishy: I suppose we could extend soft delete to also cover migrated. Only issue there is we couldn't use the DB record since the instance isn't in a soft deleted state.22:01
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cburgessvishy: I will take a look at resize_confirm and see what it provides.22:02
vishycburgess: we've been discussing reorganizing the migrate code so resize/migrate share code with live/block migration22:02
vishyso if we do that22:02
vishythen we can force a confirmation step on block migrate as well22:03
vishyalthough i hate having to work around qemu/libvirt bugs like that :)22:03
vishyanyway we should probably end the meeting22:03
vishycburgess: you have enough to go on?22:03
cburgessvishy: I'm not a fan of working around bugs either but we simply can't loose our clients data if we can prevent.22:03
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"22:04
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 31 22:04:02 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:04
cburgessvishy: Yeah I can do some more research and see what we find.22:04
openstackMinutes (text):
vishycburgess: in the short term if you just want to keep files around for block migration i think that is fine22:04
cburgessvishy: I'm going to take a look at the resize_confirm code and how that works. Could be sufficient. I'm just not that familiar with the resize code as we don't use it.22:05
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