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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 15:57 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 5 15:57:13 2013 UTC. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:57 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 15:57 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 15:57 |
| primeministerp | hi everyone | 15:57 |
| alexpilotti | hi guys | 15:57 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: pedro's not going to make it | 15:57 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: although I think we'll be quick today | 15:57 |
| alexpilotti | darn, I had to ask him a few questions | 15:57 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: take them up via email pls | 15:58 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: he's in meetings | 15:58 |
| alexpilotti | volumes are not getting live migrated | 15:58 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti o | 15:58 |
| primeministerp | that's not good | 15:58 |
| alexpilotti | yep. I'm doing it now for clod migration | 15:58 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: file a bug | 15:58 |
| alexpilotti | so if he gives me confirmation I can add the to live mifration as well | 15:59 |
| primeministerp | o | 15:59 |
| primeministerp | even better | 15:59 |
| primeministerp | ok reach out via email then | 15:59 |
| primeministerp | please | 15:59 |
| primeministerp | I wanted to discuss the work on the windows cloudinit bits | 15:59 |
| alexpilotti | so, no problem, I just need to know what his plans were in the "old" Folsom times :-) | 15:59 |
| alexpilotti | sure | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | as well as the stuff we did yesterday | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | if you think it's ok | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | for others to try | 16:00 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: care to discuss the new cloudinit bits? | 16:01 |
| alexpilotti | sure | 16:01 |
| alexpilotti | so what we have now is: | 16:02 |
| alexpilotti | support for all the WIndows OS currently supported by MS: | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | +1 | 16:02 |
| alexpilotti | 2003, 2003 R2, 2008, 2008 R2, 2012 | 16:02 |
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| alexpilotti | both x86 and x64 | 16:02 |
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| alexpilotti | and also the workstation OSs for VDIs: vista, 7 and 8 | 16:03 |
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| iben | nice! | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | I have to admit that we didn't bother to test on Vista :-D | 16:03 |
| iben | no one cares about vista | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | but it has the same kernel as 2008 | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | that's my point as well ;-) | 16:04 |
| iben | i don't know of any companies using vista | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: did you complete the rest of the cloudinit integration of the unattend.xml? | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | .. and sysprep etc | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | I have to add cloud init | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: are you going to use a rapper to dl it | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | to recap that feature, as iben might be interested | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: i.e. you can always do it in multiple post exec scripts | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | o yes | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | iben: so alexpilotti and I did some work on a unattend | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | we put together an unattended.xml to create a KVM Windows image | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | with "no hands" | 16:05 |
| iben | ok | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | *nod* | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | it could be used to create any image | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | this is due to the need to select Virtio drivers during setup, adding drivers for network later etc | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | it just also slipstreams the drivers in | 16:06 |
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| alexpilotti | I wanted a solution to simplify it as much as possible | 16:06 |
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| alexpilotti | as unfortunately we cannot provide Windows Glance images for doenload | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | du to licensing | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | *due | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | but we can provide really easy ways to build them | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:06 |
| iben | yes - the documentation will be key | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | yep :-) | 16:07 |
| iben | I can help with that | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | iben: perfect | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | cool | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | ok, the next feature in cloudinit is the set password | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: i also merged the kvm drivers into my pxe bits | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: fwiw | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | there's a new feature in Grizzly | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | to set the password in Windows and get it from nova client | 16:08 |
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| alexpilotti | it is encrypted w the SSH public key beloging to the keypair assigned to the VM | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | and is decrypted with the corresponding private key | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | so now, to get a VM password the user needs simply to do a: | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | nova get-password vm1 ./ssh/id_rsa | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | (for example) | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | it's a pefectly secure way of handling the password issue | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | nice | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | Windows cloud-init does the main work | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | 1) getting the SSH key from teh metadata | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | 2) extracting the RSA key (we don't have openssh on Windows) | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | 3) generating a random password | 16:11 |
| *** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away | 16:11 | |
| alexpilotti | 4) encrypting | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | 5) posting the encrypted data to the metadata service | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | 6) creating / updating the user with the given password | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | at this point any client can get the password, by simply providing the private key | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: great job | 16:13 |
| iben | alexpilotti: what user id is being set with this process? Is it just one or can many users be setup using this method? | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: local admin correct? | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | one user, the user name is set in the cloud-init configuration | 16:13 |
| iben | and does the user need to exist in the initial image or can users be created? | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | let me fetch you a snapshot | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | even better | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | iben: no, the servcei checks if the user exists and creates it as needed | 16:14 |
| iben | okay | 16:14 |
| iben | thanks! | 16:14 |
| iben | please cover this in the release notes as I'm sure we will get asked this many times... | 16:14 |
| alexpilotti | also, the user is added to a set of local groups provided in the configuration | 16:14 |
| alexpilotti | tipically "administrators" | 16:14 |
| iben | excellent | 16:14 |
| iben | most enterprises have changed away from the defaults | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | iben: second snapshot here: http://www.cloudbase.it/cloud-init-for-windows-instances/ | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | iben: have you tried alessandro's installers? | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | yet | 16:15 |
| iben | so local admin would not be "administrator" | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | iben: you can set "administrators" if you prefer | 16:15 |
| iben | primeministerp: we are usign them in our lab | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | iben: great | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | for security reasons, as you said companies prefer to avoid it | 16:16 |
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| primeministerp | iben: how is that going | 16:16 |
| iben | so far so good - we are verifying the configuration of the various OS support | 16:16 |
| iben | originally w2k3 was not working | 16:16 |
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| iben | but I think we moved past that - right alexpilotti? | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | iben: tep, I wrote Chris about it | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | iben: and hyper-v? | 16:17 |
| iben | alexpilotti has been a great resource - kudos!!! | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | iben: do you know if he managed to test it? | 16:17 |
| iben | so far all this is on Ubuntu KVM | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | iben: tx! :-) | 16:17 |
| iben | and Essex | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | iben: gotcha | 16:17 |
| iben | we will be moving to folsom eventually | 16:17 |
| iben | and we have yet to discuss licenses | 16:17 |
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| iben | that may impact out hypervisor choice | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: we keep on getting requests for Essex, we might think about supporting it | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: we can't | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | from a hyper-v perspective | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | w/ the main codebase | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | iben: Hyper-V is free :-) | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: kind of | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: only for Cloud-init | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: only for not running windows | 16:18 |
| iben | well - if a company owns many MS windows licenses | 16:18 |
| iben | they can license the hyper-v | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: o gotcha | 16:18 |
| iben | and save on the guest VM license cost | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: then definatley | 16:18 |
| iben | other wise | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: we should support essex w/ the cloudinit bits | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | iben: what we, do is using SPLA licenses | 16:19 |
| iben | we can use a free hypervisor | 16:19 |
| iben | and then we need to license each guest vm instance | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | iben: we use Windows Server SPLA licenses | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | datacenter edition | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | iben: only windows guests | 16:19 |
| iben | okay - we will look into this | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | they retail around 70 USD / month / socket | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | unlimited virtualization rights | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: but that's licensed on datacenter | 16:20 |
| alexpilotti | so with 2 sockets and ca 50-70 VMs per host | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: not at the vm layer | 16:20 |
| alexpilotti | that's the point | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: i.e. you're using windows server vs hyper-v server | 16:20 |
| alexpilotti | you end up paying 1-2 USD / month per guest :-) | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: datacenter | 16:20 |
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| alexpilotti | it's independent from the host (Hypervisor) OS | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | so you can use Hyper-V / KVM / ESXi / Xen etc | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | the same license includes also the host license | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: and you're sure that's cheaper than licensing the spla datacenter/core w/ hyper-v | 16:22 |
| iben | this brings up a new topic to put on our agenda for discussion later on - I'd like to propose a talk for the portland summit in april about the work I'm doing with you guys. | 16:22 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: honestly I have no idea | 16:22 |
| alexpilotti | you don't license hyper-v! | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: i know you don''t | 16:22 |
| iben | i will research all this stuff and present the "official" story | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: but you license the windows server core it need s to run on | 16:22 |
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| primeministerp | i.e. for unlimited guests | 16:23 |
| iben | if you work for Microsoft then you probably don't worry too much about licensing | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | why do you need to license a windows erver core?? | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | iben: and I work on open source | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | iben: so i care even less | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | lol | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | licensing | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | er about licensing | 16:23 |
| iben | and same thing goes for a lot of the really big enterprises with thousands of licenses and a KPL server | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | yes | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | what about moving this topic to the hyper-V channel after the meeting? :-) | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | that's the problem | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | that's infe | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | er fine | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | #topic resize | 16:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "resize (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:24 | |
| iben | when we bring servers or workstations on line they get licenses from the active directory domain automatically and it's someone elses issue to make sure we're in compliance | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | iben: that's how most places seem to work | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: move onto resize | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: did we agree that vhdx is for I | 16:25 |
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| alexpilotti | primeministerp: sure, here we go | 16:26 |
| alexpilotti | so resize is going on very well, I should be able to finish it in 2-3 days | 16:26 |
| alexpilotti | I had most of the code from the Folsom times | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: yes I remember | 16:27 |
| alexpilotti | I'm thinking about fitting even the "rescue" feature in G | 16:27 |
| alexpilotti | if we finish everything | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: and vhdx, is that for I | 16:27 |
| alexpilotti | but before that I'd like to squeeze in NVGRE on Quantum | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | i would like to see that | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | as well | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | yes, VHDX requires WMI V2, which is scheduled for I | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | ok perfect want to make sure I account for that in our list | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | thanks to the huge refactoring we did last week, it's now way easier to do it | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | but not in 2 weeks ;-) | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | *nod* | 16:28 |
| iben | so for us noobs - what is "I" | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | the release after H | 16:29 |
| iben | wow - that's far out | 16:29 |
| alexpilotti | sorry guys! | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | iben: i actually meant h | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | not i | 16:29 |
| alexpilotti | I meant "H" | 16:29 |
| alexpilotti | all that stuff is for Havana | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: yes | 16:30 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: my slip too | 16:30 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: it's the damn fiscal cycle | 16:30 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: throws me off | 16:30 |
| alexpilotti | we are too used to think 1 version ahead :-) | 16:30 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:30 |
| primeministerp | #ci progress | 16:30 |
| iben | that's good - there's no mention of "I" anywhere here.. http://wiki.openstack.org/ReleaseNaming | 16:31 |
| primeministerp | #topic ci progress | 16:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ci progress (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:31 | |
| alexpilotti | ociuhandu: is having some amazing progress on CI | 16:31 |
| primeministerp | iben: thats why we call it i | 16:31 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: good, we needed to catch up | 16:31 |
| alexpilotti | I saw a full puppetized controller running here today ;-) | 16:31 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: did you finish the network controller bits? | 16:31 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: the controller is working with all the bits | 16:31 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: network and compute? | 16:32 |
| ociuhandu | not the config, i went back to the main controller to fix the keystone ssl issues | 16:32 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: so we still have ssl issues | 16:32 |
| ociuhandu | no, it's fixed | 16:32 |
| primeministerp | o | 16:32 |
| primeministerp | you fixed it? | 16:32 |
| primeministerp | great | 16:32 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: the "main controller" is deploying fine | 16:32 |
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| primeministerp | I'll run one out of pxe today | 16:32 |
| ociuhandu | with all configs | 16:33 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: the only bit left is the enter required during the pxe on LVM | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: there isn't one | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: ;) | 16:33 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: we might have to rebuild the preseed clean | 16:33 |
| ociuhandu | there is, i deployed 3-4 ubuntu machines in the last 2 days and it's the same | 16:33 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: I'll check it, but I have no prompts | 16:34 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: did you check the order in the preseed? i think i sent you some info | 16:34 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: is the disk dropping out? | 16:34 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: they were saying that the default order is not right (for the options in the preseed) | 16:35 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: no, it just does not take the confirmation to write the LVM config | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: let's talk after and I'l lcheck | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: like i said | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: we might just need puppet to rebuild that file | 16:35 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: sure | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: but I have no prompts on preseeds | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | during lvm creatoin | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | when I run it | 16:35 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: network controller is deploying, installing from git the quantum but the config is not finished templating | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: ok good | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: on my side | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: i have the windows iso's automounting | 16:36 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: once we also have the windows bits we can also test the compute, as the puppet part ofr that should be done already | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | however we still have to put it onto the system manually | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: yes | 16:37 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: great | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: that's my goal | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: I ended up using a defines | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: bc we need to know the iso name | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: I'm going to generate all the scripts for launching the unatted.xml install from there | 16:38 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: also for time sake I may skip the part we discussed the other day | 16:38 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: as I have to still tweak the startnet.cmd | 16:38 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: i think i also got the direction for identifying the machines from puppet through puppetdb | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: good | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: let's touch base after this | 16:39 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: e.g. getting the ips of all machines having a certain module deployed | 16:39 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: sure | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | #general discussion | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | gah | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | #topic general discussion | 16:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "general discussion (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:40 | |
| primeministerp | so anyone have anything else to dadd | 16:40 |
| primeministerp | er add | 16:40 |
| primeministerp | o | 16:40 |
| primeministerp | btw luis_fdez thanks helping w/ testing the cloudinit bits | 16:40 |
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| iben | I'd like to propose a talk for the portland summit in april about the work I'm doing with you guys. | 16:40 |
| luis_fdez | primeministerp: :) | 16:40 |
| iben | is anyone else here planning any talks? | 16:41 |
| primeministerp | iben: we were going to have talk | 16:41 |
| iben | want to make sure we don't overlap | 16:41 |
| primeministerp | re: the new features | 16:41 |
| iben | and there is some strategic direction | 16:41 |
| primeministerp | and work that was done | 16:41 |
| alexpilotti | iben: when do you plan to move to Folsom? | 16:41 |
| primeministerp | also I know alessandro was going to have an additional discussion on cloud init | 16:41 |
| iben | so - I am an advisor helping many companies with cloud technology | 16:41 |
| iben | one of my larger customers is using essex now | 16:42 |
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| iben | when folsom is released (is it production yet?) they will start setting up new clusters with it | 16:42 |
| primeministerp | iben: folsom was already released | 16:43 |
| iben | i don't think there's a clean upgrade path to take 2000 Ubuntu servers in production with 10,000 virtual machines and just upgrade it | 16:43 |
| iben | I'm not sure on that though | 16:43 |
| primeministerp | I would agree | 16:43 |
| primeministerp | there might be some challenge | 16:43 |
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| iben | so as new racks come on line we can setup this new code | 16:44 |
| iben | but there is the large legacy installation to account for | 16:44 |
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| primeministerp | iben: gotcha | 16:44 |
| iben | Yahoo is also setting up a 20,000 redhat based openstack - pretty sure they will use folsom | 16:44 |
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| iben | and they will want to run windows vms on there too | 16:44 |
| primeministerp | iben: which specific part do you want to speak about at the conference? | 16:45 |
| iben | the challanges of getting traditional corp workloads onto openstack | 16:45 |
| primeministerp | iben: perfect | 16:45 |
| iben | networking | 16:45 |
| iben | licensing | 16:45 |
| iben | cloudbaseinit | 16:45 |
| iben | sort of an overview with pointers | 16:46 |
| iben | from the trenches with a been there done that perspective | 16:46 |
| primeministerp | iben: sure | 16:46 |
| primeministerp | iben: sounds good | 16:46 |
| iben | specifically enterprise focused | 16:47 |
| iben | a lot of openstack work is targeted towards devops - which is fine | 16:47 |
| iben | but we sometimes leave out the bread and butter of the enterprise apps | 16:47 |
| alexpilotti | iben, primeministerp: would you like to setup a meeting on Skype on those 3 topics? | 16:48 |
| iben | i didn't even know it was possible until we started talking here with you guys | 16:48 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: that's a great ide | 16:48 |
| primeministerp | er idea | 16:48 |
| alexpilotti | (networking, licenseing cloudbase-init) | 16:48 |
| iben | so it's great news and we need to help spread the word! | 16:48 |
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| primeministerp | iben: sounds good | 16:48 |
| primeministerp | iben: let's schedule a skype to discuss more | 16:48 |
| hanrahat | primeministerp: please include me in that meeting | 16:48 |
| iben | excellent! | 16:48 |
| primeministerp | hanrahat: sure thing | 16:49 |
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| iben | switching to skype | 16:49 |
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| primeministerp | iben: would you mind starting that thread w/ your avilability | 16:49 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:50 |
| primeministerp | anything else? | 16:50 |
| iben | not at all | 16:50 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: anything to add? | 16:50 |
| luis_fdez | nothing primeministerp, by CERN side I've been working on image creation and specific cern stuff... | 16:50 |
| iben | have you had good success to create images? | 16:51 |
| iben | luis_fdez | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | ok guys i'm closing the meeting | 16:51 |
| iben | ok | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: iben #openstack-hyper-v? | 16:51 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 16:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 5 16:51:51 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:51 |
| luis_fdez | iben: yep, we're managing to create them throug Oz and some custom scripts to connect to glance | 16:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-02-05-15.57.html | 16:51 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-02-05-15.57.txt | 16:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-02-05-15.57.log.html | 16:51 |
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| luis_fdez | primeministerp, iben sorry but I have to go... tomorrow I'll join openstack-hyper-v | 16:52 |
| iben | okay | 16:52 |
| iben | bye | 16:52 |
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| alexpilotti | bye! | 16:53 |
| ociuhandu | bye! | 16:54 |
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| ayoung | Key, Key, Key! | 17:59 |
| ayoung | KEYSTONE! | 17:59 |
| topol | Hi | 17:59 |
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| joesavak | hiya | 17:59 |
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| dolphm | o/ | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
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| henrynash | hi | 18:00 |
| dolphm | heckj was here last week, right? | 18:00 |
| henrynash | yep | 18:00 |
| heckj | morning! | 18:00 |
| topol | I believe he was | 18:00 |
| heckj | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 5 18:00:48 2013 UTC. The chair is heckj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| dolphm | yay! | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| henrynash | and is! | 18:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
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| heckj | Whassup dolph? | 18:00 |
| dolphm | heckj: not much, belatd welcome back | 18:01 |
| dolphm | belated* | 18:01 |
| heckj | heh - closer to surface now - it's not dark anymore :-) | 18:01 |
| joesavak | bleated? | 18:01 |
| heckj | dolphm: missed out on last week's keystone meeting | 18:01 |
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| ayoung | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:02 |
| heckj | Okay - looking over the agenda | 18:02 |
| ayoung | I see we haven;t updated since last week | 18:02 |
| heckj | BTW: I've got to keep things short on my side today - will get heavily distracted in about 30 minutes as I'm trying to run two meetings at once | 18:02 |
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| heckj | #topic Hot, Burning Issues of Love? | 18:03 |
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| topol | I have friends who play online poker and play 10 tables simultaneously. You can handle 2 meetings | 18:03 |
| ayoung | topol, they play with their money, not with mine | 18:03 |
| heckj | anything in the frying pan this week? | 18:03 |
| heckj | critical reviews pending, etc? | 18:03 |
| ayoung | gyee's work on V3 Token is probably most critical | 18:04 |
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| henrynash | heckj: so we need the auth review done | 18:04 |
| henrynash | ayoung: +1 | 18:04 |
| gyee | you guys OK with the spec now? | 18:04 |
| henrynash | gyee: you saw my comment on the unstopped token bit….. | 18:04 |
| ayoung | henrynash, can you link | 18:04 |
| gyee | henrynash, I am still uncomfortable with the concept of private namespace | 18:05 |
| joesavak | +1 gyee | 18:05 |
| gyee | still get wrap my head around on how does it work in conjunction with public namespaces? | 18:05 |
| heckj | dolphm: I think most of the holdout last week was related to commentary related to multifactor and token structures, which I think mostly got resolved with a general agreement to leave it open and assert extra keys should be ignored. This jive with you? | 18:05 |
| gyee | still can't | 18:05 |
| henrynash | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20524/15/openstack-identity-api/src/markdown/identity-api-v3.md | 18:05 |
| dolphm | seeing the impact of private namespaces on openstackclient makes me sad | 18:05 |
| ayoung | heckj, it jives with me | 18:06 |
| henrynash | dolphm: ? | 18:06 |
| stevemar | me too | 18:06 |
| gyee | I think we need more impact on the private namespace | 18:06 |
| gyee | impact study | 18:06 |
| ayoung | can private namespaces be implemented later, or do they need to be designed in up front> | 18:06 |
| ayoung | ? | 18:06 |
| gyee | I still think we either going to have namspace for all or nothing | 18:06 |
| henrynash | gyee: I guess my concerns is we had this debate, approved the blueprint | 18:07 |
| dolphm | heckj: sure | 18:07 |
| gyee | I am OK with namespace, just not *private* namespace | 18:07 |
| dolphm | tbh, when i +2'd the spec, i didn't expect it to merge so fast -- i was just happy with the way it was written... i probably should have +1'd | 18:07 |
| henrynash | gyee: there is very little code change that that would cause…..but of course it would be a hard on/off | 18:07 |
| dolphm | if it's a feature we can't fully deliver in the next 10 days, we need to cut it from the spec, and put it back for v3.1 | 18:08 |
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| heckj | gyee or henrynash: can one of you summarize how namespace is impacting the spec and the choice that needs to be made there? | 18:08 |
| henrynash | dolphm:: we can definitely deliver it | 18:08 |
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| henrynash | heckj: There are two spec changes: | 18:08 |
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| gyee | I am half way there with the auth impl | 18:09 |
| henrynash | 1) Specifiy domain in auth when usernaem is specified | 18:09 |
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| gyee | tooks 2 days, at this way, I should have a wip review in the next 2 days :) | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | discussion on impact to openstackclient: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20854/4/openstackclient/identity/v3/credential.py | 18:09 |
| henrynash | …as well as domain alongside for project scope/default to ensure these are unique….all in auth or scoping | 18:10 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: do you think there is an issue there in terms of adding the filtering? | 18:11 |
| gyee | the idea that we have to retrieve the user's domain in order to figure out the namespace is not very performance friendly | 18:11 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: adding ?domain_id= to GET /users and GET /projects? | 18:12 |
| henrynash | dolphm: yes | 18:12 |
| dolphm | henrynash: not at all | 18:12 |
| henrynash | gyee: sure. but we do this how often? | 18:13 |
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| gyee | henrynash, can you update the doc on how does private domain work in conjunction with public domain? | 18:14 |
| henrynash | gyee: you mean 'default' domain? | 18:14 |
| gyee | not just default | 18:14 |
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| henrynash | gyee: not quite with you….what do you mean by public domain? Any domain, not private? | 18:15 |
| gyee | say I have user jdoe in default/public domain, and I want to create a user jdoe in a private domain XYZ | 18:15 |
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| joesavak | so, private domain = private namespace, allows usernames to be unique for that domain instead system wide. If not used, then users get a default (public) domain and domain isn't required for authN? | 18:15 |
| gyee | how does that work? | 18:15 |
| henrynash | joesavak: yes | 18:16 |
| gyee | and how does it impact other OS services? | 18:16 |
| joesavak | i like the flexibility | 18:16 |
| dolphm | gyee: dashboard is the (only?) impact i'm aware of -- users in a privately namespaced domain can't login | 18:16 |
| henrynash | gyee: so the only real potential is swift, and looking at the with auth code, there might actually be no changes (still being checked - if there are they are minor) | 18:17 |
| henrynash | swift containers seem fine | 18:17 |
| henrynash | swift ACL has legacy code that checks tenantID as well as useranme, so that *might* can no changes…. | 18:17 |
| joesavak | dashboard will need to do something like <domainid>.horizon.com and send in domain id with the user/pass for authN if configured in the OS deployment | 18:17 |
| henrynash | joesavak: yes | 18:18 |
| dwchadwick | can anyone give the rationale for why user names and project names can be locally defined in a domain but role names cannot be. Seems illogical to me | 18:18 |
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| henrynash | dwchadwick: it is a artefact that today the role names are shared identifiers between all services and keystone | 18:19 |
| dolphm | dwchadwick: we need to have domain-specific policy first | 18:19 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, as of now, policy is specificied at a service level, so private roles would be meaningless | 18:19 |
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| joesavak | we need policies tied to explicit capabilities to enable private roles. | 18:20 |
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| dwchadwick | but if you have service wide policy, how can that work with domain specific user names and not with domain specific role names | 18:20 |
| heckj | gyee: reading through this, there's some impact on other services for a private domain concept with V3 auth impl (not suprising), and the argument against so far that I've caught is that it's not performant, and we'll need to be clear about expectations for interop when using and not using domains. Does that summarize your concerns? | 18:21 |
| henrynash | gyee: I understand the desire to have a hard switch on namespace….but since there wold be very little code change that this saves, I think the flexibility we get from the current spec, outweighs any gain | 18:21 |
| dolphm | dwchadwick: policy files have no concern for user names | 18:21 |
| gyee | heckj, that sounds right | 18:21 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: let's keep this to one topic at a time please - fine to bring that up later, but let's sort out the current spec disagreement | 18:21 |
| ayoung | policy does not care about user names. Policy as it is currently makes decisions based on roles and tenants. | 18:21 |
| henrynash | heck, gyee: I'm not sure about the performant bit…this is for auth when we need to do the look up, not each token check? | 18:22 |
| gyee | later when we give it a full go on namespace, then what's the advantage of private domain? | 18:22 |
| dolphm | henrynash: it's the client-side code impact that seems much larger | 18:22 |
| dwchadwick | but tenants (now projects) can be domain specific | 18:22 |
| ayoung | can someone please define (or link to a definition of) a private namespace? | 18:23 |
| gyee | problem with private domain, is that from now on, given a name, I have to do a looking on the domain | 18:23 |
| gyee | lookup | 18:23 |
| heckj | joesavak relayed this earlier, which I thought covered it: so, private domain = private namespace, allows usernames to be unique for that domain instead system wide. If not used, then users get a default (public) domain and domain isn't required for authN? | 18:23 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so the spec is probably the best: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18805/ | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung: you approved the review lol | 18:23 |
| dwchadwick | unless the domain name is always provided, or in its absence you can assume default | 18:23 |
| dwchadwick | then all names can be local to the domain | 18:24 |
| henrynash | heckj: yep, it's really that simple": names are private to that domain or they are not | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, yeah, but I think that it might mean differently from I origianlly interpreted it | 18:24 |
| gyee | its not just default domain | 18:24 |
| gyee | say if I have 3 public domains and 1 private domain | 18:25 |
| ayoung | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c6Tvr_zRMOP2mJCQN9lrfJjxGaXAExXiFlwMDvmXbl4/edit | 18:25 |
| gyee | name is globally unique across all the public domains | 18:25 |
| henrynash | gyee: so today, names are global across all domains | 18:25 |
| gyee | this is confusing just to describe it | 18:25 |
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| dolphm | i'm lost on how the default domain has any impact on public/private namespacing? | 18:26 |
| dwchadwick | Its not confusing if you get a nice description written up somewhere | 18:26 |
| gyee | dolphm, for a given name, I don't know if its globally unique till I lookup its domain | 18:26 |
| henrynash | gyee: that stays true expect for and names that are in a domain that was created with the "private" flag set….in which cases those names are in their own private name sapce | 18:26 |
| joesavak | think of public domain as a single default domain (only one can exist) and it is basically the absence of a private domain | 18:26 |
| henrynash | gyee: well, that's how it is today! | 18:26 |
| ayoung | OK...so a "private" namespace is a namespace. THe private does not imply privacy concerns, but rather a way to divide uniqueness between two realms, so usernames and tenant names can be reused, correct? | 18:27 |
| dolphm | 1) user names share a single namespace across all publicly namespaced domains, 2) project names share a single namespace across all publicly namespaced domains, 3) user names have their own namespace within a privately namespaced domain, 4) project names have their own namespace within a privately namespaced domain | 18:27 |
| heckj | henrynash, gyee: I'm missing the distinction between public and private domains - hven't seen an identifier to assert which it is. I've been under the impression that if there *is* a domain at all, it's a "private" domain in the curren conversation. Is there a disinction there I'm missing | 18:27 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yes | 18:27 |
| dwchadwick | when you create a domain there is a public/private flag | 18:28 |
| dolphm | ayoung: meaning that a username or project name without a domain for context *may* be ambiguous, but you're forced to check for it in the public namespace because you don't know which private namespace to look in | 18:28 |
| heckj | dwchadwick: ah, thank you - missed that. | 18:28 |
| henrynash | heckj: on domain create, you can specify pivate_user_names and/or private_project _names true/false | 18:28 |
| henrynash | heckj: default is false - i.e the current situation | 18:28 |
| dwchadwick | and you should also be able to specify public/private role names as well ;-) | 18:29 |
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| henrynash | dwchadwick: another battle, not this one :-) | 18:29 |
| Haneef | Can't we simply make names scoped to domain? | 18:29 |
| heckj | heh, just can't keep a good academic down, can you | 18:29 |
| stevemar | dwchadwick: i agree | 18:29 |
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| dwchadwick | its all part of the same battle. Having a clean model that is consistent and understandable rather than adhoc | 18:30 |
| gyee | what battle? :) | 18:30 |
| gyee | see how confusing this thing is? | 18:30 |
| dwchadwick | the battle over the v3 API ;-) | 18:30 |
| dolphm | dwchadwick: unfortunately we don't start with a blank slate for every release | 18:30 |
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| gyee | we either going to have namspace or we don't, much easier to understand | 18:31 |
| joesavak | haneef - i think the way henrynash did it allows for an easier transition from v2 to v3. As discussed earlier there are ripple effects when domainId is required for authN in addition to user/pass. If v3 impl provided an easy way to transition from user-unique across all domains to user-unique to a domain it will help adoption | 18:31 |
| heckj | henrynash, gyee - frankly, the distinction seems needlessly complex and simply a means of enabling a break in the uniqeness rules that we currently are living under. I think (maybe this is what gyee was arguing) that we would be better making usernames specific/unique to domains from the very start - revising what we're doing today | 18:31 |
| dwchadwick | but adding more spaghetti to the plate makes it more difficult to untangle in the long run | 18:31 |
| gyee | heckj, amen brother! | 18:31 |
| gyee | I am NOT against namespace, I am against *private* namespace | 18:32 |
| heckj | so as a compromise here, let me suggest the following: | 18:32 |
| dwchadwick | gyee - what is the difference? | 18:32 |
| heckj | we change our asserting that user names need to be globally unique, and instead only enforce uniqueness to a domain | 18:32 |
| heckj | we remove the concept of public vs. priviate domains altogether | 18:32 |
| dwchadwick | all namespaces are private until make global | 18:32 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, yes | 18:33 |
| Haneef | heckj , totally agree. Don't need to write so many pages in document to explain private/public domain in docs. Simply make it domain scope | 18:33 |
| ayoung | I agree "all namespaces are private until make global" | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | but...you should be able to run that backwards | 18:33 |
| heckj | we make additional implementation notes in the spec asserting that there is a concept of a default domain, and if a domain isn't specified in auth, that auth is assume to go against the default domain | 18:33 |
| dolphm | ayoung: "backwards"? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | it should be possible to split a global namespace into multiple private ones down the road | 18:33 |
| ayoung | if the pool is globally unique to start | 18:33 |
| dolphm | heckj: you can't make a private namespace public -- there will be collisions with the existing public namespace | 18:34 |
| joesavak | default domain will help v3 adoption | 18:34 |
| ayoung | you should be able to split that into multiple pools of names where the names start to overlap | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | there should be a default domain. THat is the domain for all users. THe problem is on how to split it up after wards | 18:34 |
| ayoung | if you l;ook at the DNS syustem, they are split on dots | 18:34 |
| ayoung | ldap splits on the whole cn=<value>, comma | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | and so if some people are doing username with email addresses, and you start splitting on domain name, now people that were in the same domain are split into different | 18:35 |
| ayoung | ayoung@redhat.com would be partitioned into a different domain than admiyo@yahoo.com, even though they are both MY email addresses. This is the process we need to keep in mind | 18:36 |
| henrynash | heckj: so I am am absolutely fine with this approach…and indeed I started there! The thing we are really saying is that the use of domains will really be for enterprises that want to have their own namespace and won't accept restrictions of clashing with others | 18:36 |
| ayoung | So...we start with Folsom | 18:36 |
| dwchadwick | the concept is simple. You take your own private name and prefix or suffix with your name (i.e. name of parent) to turn it into a global name | 18:36 |
| ayoung | and the V2 API. And we specify how things will grow into the V3 API | 18:36 |
| Haneef | to support v2, can't we create a predefined v2 domain and move all the users to it. | 18:36 |
| joesavak | Haneef, +1 | 18:36 |
| henrynash | we have the v2 thing coverered | 18:36 |
| gyee | heckj, I am fine with your proposal | 18:36 |
| gyee | have namespace applicable to all | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | Lets call it DOM0 just to confuse the Xen guys! | 18:37 |
| dolphm | Haneef: we already did that | 18:37 |
| henrynash | when you upgrade from F->G, all users and projects end up in the default domain and v2 and v3 clients will find them fine | 18:37 |
| joesavak | sweet | 18:37 |
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| Haneef | So we don't even need to worry about default domain, for v2 users, it is v2 domain, and v3 , they are going to create a new domain or use existing one | 18:38 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, "the concept is simple. You take your own private name and prefix or suffix with your name (i.e. name of parent) to turn it into a global name" that leads to things liike Kerberos tickets: ayoung@example.com@EXAMPLE.COM | 18:38 |
| ayoung | BNotice the double @ incase I didn't make it clear enough | 18:38 |
| psedlak | with current proposal - user in private namespace will never be able to access diferent domains/project meanwhile user in global name space can get this acces and that could be problem in just private namespaces (possible name-clash) - right? | 18:39 |
| gyee | ayoung, that looks like my email@EMAIL | 18:39 |
| dwchadwick | yes exactly. As the world grows and domains merge then you need to add another level to the name | 18:39 |
| henrynash | haneef: better than that, domain is optional in v3, so if the cloud provider want to run in "folsom" mode, the just never specify a domain on any entity and it all ends up in one big default domain with folsom semantcis | 18:39 |
| ayoung | Since we have not ruled out any characters in usernames, we can't specify a means to concatinate username and domain in a singled string. | 18:39 |
| gyee | ayoung, email is unique across the world | 18:40 |
| dwchadwick | I suggested you make it a config parameter that each OpenStack installation can decide | 18:40 |
| ayoung | henrynash, so, is there fundamentally and difference between saying "we have multiple domains" and "we have multiple namespaces?" | 18:40 |
| dwchadwick | In this way you cater for Chinese, Korean, Japanese etc | 18:40 |
| dolphm | ayoung: +1 to straight up concatenation is impossible | 18:41 |
| ayoung | gyee, yes, but we are not currently splitting domains on email addresses. If we do that,. we end up with one domain per unique email address in the system....sub optimal | 18:41 |
| henrynash | ayoung: if we take the approach suggest here, then no every domain is its own namespace | 18:41 |
| ayoung | henrynash, and I think that is the right approach | 18:41 |
| ayoung | so lets drop the term "private" from discussing namespaces. What we should say is something like this: | 18:42 |
| ayoung | 1. IN folsom, there is one domain and one namespace | 18:42 |
| ayoung | 2 Grizzly there will, by default, also be one domain and one namespace | 18:42 |
| ayoung | 3. If you want to enable an additional domain, you can do so | 18:42 |
| ayoung | 4. this domain will have a separate namespace from the existing domain. | 18:43 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: +1 | 18:43 |
| dwchadwick | 4. But you have to specify the domain name always | 18:43 |
| ayoung | I think this maps to how people will want to use it. | 18:43 |
| topol | ayoung +1 | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | dwchadwick, there's the rub, as the bard said | 18:43 |
| gyee | ayoung, +1 | 18:43 |
| ayoung | so that should be up to the deployment to decide | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | if you have multiple namespaces, you can chose either: | 18:43 |
| ayoung | 1. if they leave off the domain ID, they get the default or | 18:44 |
| ayoung | 2. if you leave off the domain id you get an error | 18:44 |
| ayoung | We have gone with 1 | 18:44 |
| henrynash | ayoung: …they get the domain the token is scoped to…. | 18:44 |
| ayoung | as it allows the V2 api to work unchanged | 18:44 |
| ayoung | henrynash, right | 18:44 |
| ayoung | but you have to start the process somewhere | 18:44 |
| ayoung | so if I just pass in userid and password to get a token, and not domain ID, we are saying that is checked against the default domain to keep V2 working | 18:45 |
| gyee | I like that | 18:45 |
| dwchadwick | no 4. But you have to specify the domain name always when you want to use the non-default domain | 18:45 |
| henrynash | ayoung: v2 client yes | 18:46 |
| ayoung | But, for V3, we can specify that the domain Id is always passed, or we can specify it is up to the deployment whether it is required or not | 18:46 |
| joesavak | up to deployment, please | 18:46 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, yes, you have to specify the domain name always when you want to use the non-default domain. | 18:46 |
| dwchadwick | that works | 18:46 |
| ayoung | gyee, henrynash do you guys feel like we have a workable solution? | 18:47 |
| dwchadwick | So this issue is not up to the deployment | 18:47 |
| gyee | ayoung, sounds good to me! | 18:47 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, the deployment gets to say whether default domains are in effect, or whether you always have to specify | 18:47 |
| henrynash | gyee: The key is that this is a hard: every domain has its own namespace | 18:47 |
| dwchadwick | ayoung yes | 18:47 |
| henrynash | I'm fine with that…the rest is details we can work through outside this meeting | 18:47 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, said another way, the deployment controls the rule "what to do if domain ID is missing" | 18:48 |
| ayoung | schweet | 18:48 |
| dwchadwick | ayoung : no, the deployment cannot control that | 18:48 |
| gyee | henrynash, hard to implement or hard to understand? :) | 18:48 |
| henrynash | gyee: hard as in fixed! | 18:48 |
| dwchadwick | It cannot say domain name is missing and it is private namespace | 18:48 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, I thought we agreed to stop using the word private | 18:49 |
| ayoung | but yes, I am not saying that | 18:49 |
| dwchadwick | as recipient then wont know what name it is meant to be | 18:49 |
| ayoung | it can say | 18:49 |
| ayoung | if no domain id, use a default domain of "EXAMPLE_COM" | 18:49 |
| dwchadwick | agreed | 18:49 |
| ayoung | or it can say | 18:49 |
| ayoung | if no domain id, raise an exception | 18:49 |
| dwchadwick | but it cannot same if domain is missing, guess which domain it is | 18:49 |
| ayoung | dwchadwick, true....although we are specifying that in certain cases, a missing domain ID would mean "carry over the domain id used in a previous transaction with this same user" | 18:51 |
| henrynash | heck, young: Ok, sign me up to update the api spec to reflect this | 18:51 |
| ayoung | so it has to be specified at some point in the chain. | 18:51 |
| ayoung | #action henrynash updates spec to reflect current design of domain namespacing | 18:51 |
| gyee | can you guys approve the current token API spec first? | 18:52 |
| topol | gyee: whats the review url | 18:52 |
| henrynash | gyee: valid point | 18:52 |
| dwaite | I'm still a little unclear on domains and namespaces | 18:52 |
| gyee | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20524/ | 18:52 |
| topol | gyee: you earned a +1 from me today | 18:53 |
| gyee | topol, thanks | 18:53 |
| henrynash | gyee: you'll need to change the wordings to remove private namespaces etc. | 18:53 |
| ayoung | gyee you have your approval https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20524/ | 18:53 |
| gyee | grasseyass amigo! | 18:53 |
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| henrynash | gyee: however, it won't change what you pass, just the text description | 18:53 |
| dwaite | is a domain a namespace? | 18:53 |
| ayoung | heh, I already hit approve. Should I stop that? | 18:54 |
| gyee | dwaite, yes | 18:54 |
| henrynash | dwaite: it is now | 18:54 |
| dwaite | ok | 18:54 |
| dwaite | yay | 18:54 |
| gyee | henrynash, you can do the wording update after the merge | 18:54 |
| henrynash | gyee: +2 | 18:54 |
| gyee | w00t! | 18:54 |
| dolphm | ayoung: did you review the final result or just hit approve? | 18:54 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, hit approve. there were +2s from two core | 18:55 |
| ayoung | I can stop it | 18:55 |
| dolphm | ayoung: please read hugely impactful changes before you sign off on them :( | 18:55 |
| gyee | what's the holdup? | 18:56 |
| heckj | reading back really quick - I very much want a fixed suggested solution for waht happens when no domain is specified. | 18:56 |
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| heckj | ayoung - good with your proposal entirely | 18:56 |
| heckj | but it can't be deployment specific, or we'll fuck interoperability | 18:56 |
| heckj | I'm fine with someone choosing to do it another way, but we need (as OpenStack) to have an opinion on the solution and publish it to allow for interop | 18:57 |
| ayoung | dolphm, sorry...I just saw that there was the requisite number. We can continue to update the spec, though....I think that it is ok for this to be its own commit | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | not a bad idea to break big reviews down into smaller ones, as we have seen | 18:57 |
| gyee | right, and henrynash is going to change the wording on namespace | 18:57 |
| stevemar | +1 | 18:57 |
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| ayoung | wow, that merged fast | 18:57 |
| dolphm | docs have very little build process | 18:58 |
| gyee | henrynash, she's all yours :) | 18:58 |
| dolphm | / gating | 18:58 |
| henrynash | gyee: I"ll treat her gently... | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, actually, now that I look at it, I had read that earlier. | 18:58 |
| ayoung | I was fine by it. It can always be clearer, but I think we are on the right track | 18:59 |
| heckj | Well, there goes that meeting. | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, since I assume heckj is split-brained right now, you want to move on to the next topic, or just call it here | 19:00 |
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| henrynash | heckj: hey, but agreed stuff! | 19:00 |
| ayoung | heckj, ah. we done? | 19:00 |
| heckj | we're out of time, so we'll need to wrap for today | 19:00 |
| heckj | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 5 19:00:44 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-02-05-18.00.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-02-05-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-02-05-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
| clarkb | Time for openstack infra | 19:01 |
| fungi | yup | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| clarkb | who do we have? olaph fungi pleia2 zaro ttx annegentle ryan_lane? | 19:01 |
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| olaph | ohai | 19:01 |
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| clarkb | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 5 19:01:50 2013 UTC. The chair is clarkb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
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| fungi | old business? | 19:02 |
| clarkb | on the agenda for today: CLA, wiki, logs, reviewday, jenkins plugins, and whatever else we want to talk about | 19:02 |
| fungi | sounds goof | 19:02 |
| fungi | good too | 19:02 |
| clarkb | #topic CLA | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CLA (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| clarkb | fungi: how are things in redoing the CLA land? | 19:03 |
| fungi | no news is good news. also known as "i've been busy with other things" | 19:03 |
| fungi | we're on track | 19:03 |
| fungi | toddmorey and i keep missing each other to exchange the new key, but other than that good | 19:04 |
| clarkb | the dummy endpoint for CLA checking landed on review-dev correct? | 19:04 |
| fungi | a few weeks back, yeah | 19:04 |
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| clarkb | other than exchanging a key is there any other work we should keep on our radar? | 19:04 |
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| fungi | annegentle posted a follow-up to the ml, but nobody seems to have piped up past that | 19:05 |
| fungi | the actual cut-over will be happening on the 24th of this month, so keep that in mind i guess | 19:05 |
| fungi | i'll remind everybody to get some reviews done on the pending wip patches when we get closer | 19:05 |
| clarkb | ok sounds good to me | 19:06 |
| fungi | they'll likely need a rebase between now and then anyway | 19:06 |
| clarkb | I will do my best to write changes that conflict with yours :) | 19:06 |
| fungi | anyway, unless there are questions, we can move on to the next topic | 19:06 |
| clarkb | none from me. | 19:06 |
| fungi | though i think we skipped the action items from last week | 19:06 |
| fungi | not that it probably matters much since most of that's on the agenda anyway | 19:07 |
| fungi | given that we never revised teh agenda ;) | 19:07 |
| clarkb | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-01-29-19.01.html <- last weeks notes | 19:07 |
| clarkb | I am going to skip the wiki for now because I don't think ryan_lane is here yet | 19:08 |
| fungi | k | 19:08 |
| clarkb | #topic quantal slaves | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "quantal slaves (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| fungi | i've got four up and running. our automation for launching new slaves has been fixed to accommodate quantal | 19:08 |
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| fungi | over the weekend i tested the master branch unit tests for all core and incubated projects on quantal slaves and they're fine | 19:09 |
| clarkb | I think the tripleo folks have volunteered to guinea pig for us | 19:09 |
| fungi | i need to update jclouds to be capable of adding extra quantals | 19:09 |
| fungi | but we can press forward before that as long as we don't switch too many projects over | 19:09 |
| clarkb | fungi: did you want to go ahead and propose changes that migrate projects one by one to quantal? (or in groups smaller than doing all at once) | 19:09 |
| fungi | i assume we want buy-in from the core devs on each project, right? | 19:10 |
| clarkb | yeah I would have them +1 the change (or get the PTL to) | 19:10 |
| fungi | so probably separate changes, that way they don't block progress if some projects are slow reviewing | 19:10 |
| fungi | i can batch the server and client projects together | 19:11 |
| fungi | as pairs | 19:11 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:11 |
| fungi | i'll add jclouds first though, so that we can be lazy about adding persistent slaves if needed | 19:11 |
| clarkb | sounds good to me | 19:12 |
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| clarkb | any questions about quantal slaves? | 19:12 |
| clarkb | #topic Jenkins Build Logs | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Jenkins Build Logs (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
| fungi | also known as how to lose a monday | 19:13 |
| pleia2 | heh :) | 19:13 |
| clarkb | yesterday (Monday) static.o.o which hosts the logs.o.o vhost decided it would run out of disk space | 19:13 |
| fungi | #link http://cacti.openstack.org/cacti/graph.php?action=view&local_graph_id=309&rra_id=all | 19:14 |
| clarkb | this caused the gate to effectively grind to a halt as Jenkins could not copy build logs to the log server and zuul interpreted these failures as job failures | 19:14 |
| clarkb | fungi managed to run the compression job aggressively to keep things semi sane but compressing things and cleaning up old unneeded cruft wasn't helping much | 19:15 |
| fungi | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1115391 | 19:15 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1115391 in openstack-ci "Root filesystem full on static.openstack.org" [High,In progress] | 19:15 |
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| clarkb | after looking at the problem more closely we realized that the tempest full runs were producing 42MB syslog which was being duplicated by screen logs (all uncompressed). That plus the other logs we were capturing put each devstack tempest full run at near 100MB of log data | 19:16 |
| clarkb | jenkins was not compressing this data before copying it and each change runs 2 to 3 of these jobs. tl;dr it didn't take many jenkins jobs to eat up gigs of data before things got compressed | 19:17 |
| fungi | and we normally only compress on static.o.o every 4 hours | 19:17 |
| fungi | the monday rush overran that rapidly | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | the temporary solution is we are no longer copying the openstack service screen logs as syslog duplicates that data, and we are compressing the files before jenkins copies them to the log server | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | vishy pointed out that syslog truncates messages so I have written a change to increase the MaxMessageSize in rsyslog on our slaves | 19:19 |
| clarkb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/21233/ | 19:19 |
| clarkb | this should keep things reasonable while we sort out a long term solution to this problem | 19:20 |
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| clarkb | long term options include: growing the disk space on static.o.o, storing all logs in swift, rotating logs more aggressively (there are many ways of doing this), and I am sure we can come up with many more | 19:20 |
| clarkb | #action clarkb start discussion on long term log archival options when jeblair gets back | 19:21 |
| fungi | in the meantime we've got about 4gb free right now | 19:21 |
| fungi | we may need to come up with something we can purge between now and next week, depending | 19:22 |
| clarkb | and if the gate queue ever quiets down we may just go ahead and grow that disk | 19:22 |
| fungi | my only concern there is that it comes with a bigger vm all around, and we can't as easily scale back | 19:22 |
| fungi | but it definitely is an easy way out | 19:23 |
| pleia2 | well, growing it a little now could give some breathing room (certainly isn't a long term solution) | 19:23 |
| pleia2 | 4G doesn't seem like a lot right now | 19:23 |
| clarkb | yeah, and we are trying to move more items to static.o.o so I don't think making it a bigger server is a bad idea in general | 19:23 |
| fungi | i'll buy that | 19:23 |
| fungi | next step up is 4g ram and 160g disk | 19:23 |
| fungi | right now it's at 2 and 80 | 19:24 |
| clarkb | anything else on logs? | 19:24 |
| clarkb | #topic reviewday | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reviewday (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:25 | |
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| pleia2 | so, last week I cleaned up the code so now it passes pep8 and pyflakes tests | 19:25 |
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| pleia2 | also made it so it can take a command line argument to specify the output directory | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | puppetizing is now in progress | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | planning on putting this on static.o.o at the moment (it's small and doesn't really grow) | 19:26 |
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| pleia2 | that's all I've got | 19:27 |
| clarkb | pleia2: are there outstanding changes that need review? | 19:27 |
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| clarkb | I have been particularly bad keeping up with the review queue lately (will try to fix that today) | 19:27 |
| pleia2 | clarkb: I checked in a change, but it's more for sharing with fungi at the moment to fill in the missing pieces (not ready for proper review) | 19:28 |
| clarkb | ok | 19:28 |
| fungi | though i saw pabelanger had some suggestions on it already, so you'll want to have a look at those | 19:28 |
| pleia2 | yeah, most of those are known, but it is helpful | 19:28 |
| fungi | and i'll start going over it after the meeting, before dinnertime | 19:28 |
| pleia2 | much appreciated | 19:28 |
| clarkb | cool | 19:28 |
| clarkb | #topic Jenkins Plugins | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Jenkins Plugins (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:29 | |
| zaro | i need some of my java stuff reviewed if anyone wants to do it. | 19:29 |
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| clarkb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack-infra/gearman-plugin,n,z | 19:29 |
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| fungi | zaro is a.k.a. khaido i guess. i miss nick changes sometimes | 19:29 |
| clarkb | trying to get the number of outstanding changes down to a reasonable number to simplify git management | 19:29 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes | 19:29 |
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| zaro | sorry didn't inform about nick change. but it's true | 19:30 |
| clarkb | zaro demoed gearman running jobs across multiple jenkins masters for me. it is pretty awesome | 19:30 |
| fungi | nice! | 19:31 |
| fungi | scalability, here we come | 19:31 |
| zaro | i've been holding off further changes until reviews come back. | 19:31 |
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| zaro | working on documenting it and further tests. | 19:31 |
| clarkb | zaro has also started a gearman puppet module. so there is an assortment of related items around the gearman plugin that are ready for review | 19:31 |
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| fungi | i'll try to take a closer look in the next couple of days. i've also been very slack on reviews of late | 19:32 |
| clarkb | me too. | 19:32 |
| clarkb | I skimmed jeblair's LCA talk and he mentioned the ZMQ plugin there. And implied it would be available through the normal openstack-infra channels. So I will try getting that into gerrit sometime in the near future too | 19:33 |
| fungi | jeblair's already releasing your future work. awesome | 19:33 |
| zaro | have a link to his talk? | 19:33 |
| pleia2 | zaro: http://mirror.linux.org.au/linux.conf.au/2013/mp4/OpenStack_Zuul.mp4 | 19:34 |
| clarkb | the plugin is running on jenkins and jenkins-dev and is still spewing events so I think it is working now | 19:34 |
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| pleia2 | zaro: watched last night, it's great :) | 19:34 |
| fungi | and that gets us a step closer to logstash indexing of job logs, right? | 19:34 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes, it makes the notification of "hey logs are available" very simple | 19:35 |
| zaro | pleia2: got a link to talk? | 19:35 |
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| pleia2 | zaro: the mp4 link above | 19:35 |
| zaro | pleia2: opps. thanks. | 19:35 |
| clarkb | fungi: jeblair was suggesting zuul may use it too | 19:36 |
| fungi | oh, i can see where that would be helpful, yes | 19:36 |
| clarkb | still no ryan_lane but I think we should move onto talking about the wiki move | 19:36 |
| * annegentle is here | 19:36 | |
| clarkb | #topic wiki | 19:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "wiki (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:36 | |
| clarkb | olaph: how are things? | 19:37 |
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| olaph | the underlying skin on wiki-staging.o.o is different from the one I was using, but I've ported over all the style changes required for 'v1' | 19:37 |
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| clarkb | https://wiki-staging.openstack.org is not returning bytes to me. is that expected? | 19:38 |
| olaph | https://wiki-staging.openstack.org/wiki/Main_Page | 19:38 |
| fungi | i got a cert from it, but yeah, no content | 19:38 |
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| clarkb | ooh shiny | 19:39 |
| clarkb | we should probably make apache forward you to /wiki/Main_Page when you hit / | 19:39 |
| olaph | I would assume that would resolve correctly when they go live... :) | 19:39 |
| fungi | timing out getting a response after the handshake | 19:39 |
| clarkb | ah | 19:39 |
| pleia2 | nice | 19:39 |
| clarkb | annegentle: olaph I know jeblair requested we move the migration up a day | 19:40 |
| annegentle | looking good | 19:40 |
| clarkb | I was hoping ryan_lane would be here to chime in on that | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | he works next door to where I live, shall I go knock? :) | 19:41 |
| clarkb | pleia2: I won't stop you, but I don't think it is necessary :) | 19:41 |
| clarkb | annegentle: how do you feel about that? | 19:41 |
| annegentle | no problem from me, either day works | 19:41 |
| ttx | clarkb: o/ | 19:42 |
| clarkb | I think both fungi and I are available on the 17th if we want to stick wit hthe original day that everyone agreed to | 19:42 |
| fungi | yeah, i'm cool either way | 19:42 |
| clarkb | ttx: heelo | 19:42 |
| ttx | olaph: nice work on the theme | 19:42 |
| clarkb | ok sounds like either day works for most people. if we can get a hold of ryan today and he is ok with the 16th then I think we should move it | 19:42 |
| clarkb | ttx: ^ that work with you? | 19:42 |
| ttx | I'll be in jetlag mode but yes, works for me | 19:43 |
| fungi | if we do that, i guess we also need to follow up to the original announcement on the ml | 19:43 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes we will need to send an update | 19:43 |
| annegentle | yeah makes sense, I'll send an update as needed | 19:43 |
| clarkb | is anyone aware of any additional outstanding items? I believe image upload works and the template looks good | 19:44 |
| clarkb | I guess not | 19:45 |
| clarkb | #action clarkb to find out if ryan_lane is ok with migrating the wiki on Feb 16 instead of Feb 17. | 19:45 |
| clarkb | #topic open discussion | 19:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:46 | |
| annegentle | #action annegentle to send update to mailing list if moved to Feb 16 | 19:46 |
| ttx | clarkb: was wondering if we could do something to get python-swiftclient 1.3.0 to Pypi | 19:46 |
| ttx | been chasing mordred about it to not avail | 19:47 |
| clarkb | ttx: that was the tag that didn't push properly because the jenkins job was off? | 19:47 |
| ttx | that was the tag that didn't push properly because a script was missing | 19:47 |
| clarkb | yes, we can manually push that to pypi | 19:47 |
| mordred | oh, sorry | 19:48 |
| clarkb | mordred: did you want to do that? | 19:48 |
| * ttx blames mordred for not doing it earlier | 19:48 | |
| mordred | clarkb: I can, unless someone beats me to it | 19:48 |
| mordred | clarkb: I was going to re-trigger the job in jenkins to re-test it | 19:48 |
| clarkb | #action mordred to upload python-swiftclient 1.3.0 | 19:49 |
| mordred | rather than pushing the tag manually | 19:49 |
| clarkb | ++ to retriggering jenkins job | 19:49 |
| ttx | mordred: while you're in acceptance mode, remember to push new versioning code to projects asap | 19:49 |
| mordred | ttx: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+branch:master+topic:oslo-version,n,z | 19:49 |
| ttx | mordred: cool, thx | 19:49 |
| fungi | mordred: any news on the rhel slave licensing situation? | 19:49 |
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| mordred | fungi: I learned new things at LCA, but need to follow up on them | 19:50 |
| fungi | okay, awesome | 19:50 |
| clarkb | we will probably want to follow http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/2013/CVE-2013-0169.html | 19:52 |
| uvirtbot | clarkb: ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem. When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2013-0169) | 19:52 |
| ttx | mordred: also I'll probably start up summit.openstack.org on the same cloudserver instance as for past summits | 19:52 |
| ttx | mordred: couldn't push it to infra proper and now time is running very short | 19:52 |
| mordred | ttx: ok | 19:52 |
| ttx | mordred: I kinda want to do it myself as an exercise | 19:52 |
| ttx | so I'll do that early in H. | 19:52 |
| * ttx remembers saying that 6 months ago too. | 19:53 | |
| mordred | :) | 19:53 |
| clarkb | we could trap ttx in a bar in portland and make him do it then | 19:53 |
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| clarkb | anything else? | 19:54 |
| clarkb | #endmeeting | 19:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 5 19:54:30 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-02-05-19.01.html | 19:54 |
| Daviey | . | 19:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-02-05-19.01.txt | 19:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-02-05-19.01.log.html | 19:54 |
| fungi | Daviey: ? | 19:55 |
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| Daviey | fungi: wassup? | 19:58 |
| Daviey | Oh, the . was a typo. Sorry. | 19:58 |
| fungi | ahh, didn't know if you had a last-minute question when we were closing out the meeting | 19:58 |
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| ttx | Who is around for the TC meeting ? | 19:59 |
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| gabrielhurley | \o | 19:59 |
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| markmc | hey | 20:00 |
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| markwash | ttx: I'm standing in for bcwaldon, unless that's a subsequent meeting where I'm supposed to do that :-) | 20:00 |
| * markmc in a meeting, so will be a little distracted ... sorry | 20:00 | |
| * ttx counts 3 so far, pinging others | 20:00 | |
| ttx | markmc: I think you replace him for the next meeting | 20:00 |
| markwash | ttx: gotcha | 20:00 |
| * markwash lurks anyway | 20:01 | |
| danwent | o/ | 20:01 |
| notmyname | here | 20:01 |
| ttx | russellb annegentle jgriffith heckj ? | 20:01 |
| annegentle | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | vishy jaypipes mordred ? | 20:01 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| * ttx stopped counting | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 5 20:02:11 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Agenda for today is: | 20:02 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Schedule for Spring 2013 PTL/TC elections | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Schedule for Spring 2013 PTL/TC elections (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | Our charter actually defines the timing for elections, based on the date for the Summit | 20:02 |
| ttx | Now that we know the summit date, the timing is: | 20:03 |
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| ttx | March 1-7: Nominations for PTL | 20:03 |
| ttx | March 8-14: Vote for PTLMarch 8-14: Vote for PTL | 20:03 |
| ttx | oops | 20:03 |
| ttx | March 15-21: Nominations for direct seats | 20:03 |
| ttx | March 22-28: Vote for direct seats | 20:03 |
| ttx | This is coming fast | 20:03 |
| ttx | We need people that are not running for any position to organize those. I can't do that since I need to run for reelection myself. | 20:03 |
| ttx | annegentle, mordred: one of you interested in spearheading that effort ? | 20:03 |
| markmc | ttx, do we run PTL elections for (still) incubating projects? | 20:03 |
| markmc | ttx, or only do that when projects graduate? | 20:04 |
| annegentle | wow are we the only two eligible? | 20:04 |
| ttx | markmc: no, we have to decide if they graduate /before/ the elections | 20:04 |
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| annegentle | or can other community members organize them | 20:04 |
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| ttx | annegentle: you're the only two I /think/ won't run | 20:04 |
| mordred | mordred: I can do it if I can start working on it tomorrow | 20:04 |
| ttx | annegentle: oh, you can have election officials that are from elsewhere | 20:05 |
| ttx | just kinda want someone from the TC to own the process and see it to completion | 20:05 |
| annegentle | mordred: awesome because I really can't | 20:05 |
| markmc | vuntz and jeblair help with the foundation elections, they might be interested? | 20:05 |
| ttx | mordred: we can hook jeblair in, can help with the election lists | 20:05 |
| ttx | #info mordred to set up elections | 20:06 |
| ttx | mordred: You can start with a copy of http://wiki.openstack.org/Governance/TCElectionsFall2012 | 20:06 |
| ttx | ask me if you have questions | 20:06 |
| ttx | questions on that ? | 20:06 |
| mordred | excited | 20:06 |
| markmc | good luck mordred | 20:07 |
| * ttx is happy to offload some of his so exciting tasks to someone else :) | 20:07 | |
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| ttx | ok, no questions I see | 20:07 |
| ttx | next topic then | 20:08 |
| ttx | #topic Update on the "Future of Incubation / core" joint committee | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Update on the "Future of Incubation / core" joint committee (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:08 | |
| ttx | So... we needed to propose a way forward to projects currently in incubation, before it's too late to add them to the integrated release cycle for Havana | 20:08 |
| ttx | (we need to decide which projects are "integrated", and therefore have PTLs, before we start the PTL election process, i.e. before March 1st) | 20:08 |
| ttx | To that effect we summarized the current position of the Incubation/Core joint committee and that was presented to the Board | 20:08 |
| ttx | My understanding was that this being a TC process and no red flag being waved, we should go ahead with that process for the currently-incubated projects | 20:08 |
| ttx | markmc, mordred: comments ? | 20:09 |
| markmc | so, I summarised stuff here: | 20:09 |
| markmc | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2013-January/000113.html | 20:09 |
| markmc | the slightly messy thing is that the committee hasn't finished its work completely | 20:09 |
| mordred | ttx: my only comment/concern is what markmc said | 20:09 |
| markmc | and we said the TC would go ahead based on the discussions to date | 20:09 |
| markmc | after running it by the board | 20:09 |
| ttx | right, I expect the committee to continue working until May tbh | 20:09 |
| markmc | seeing as this shouldn't need approval by anyone but the TC | 20:09 |
| markmc | I presented to the board (as a TC rep) last week | 20:10 |
| ttx | The idea would be to have in the remaining weeks of February a "end of cycle incubation graduation review" where we look into the state of the currently-incubated projects | 20:10 |
| markmc | but seems like mordred understands what happened a little differently | 20:10 |
| ttx | and either accept them as part of the integrated release for havana, or ask them to continue maturing during the next cycle | 20:10 |
| ttx | Does this fly for everyone, and if not what would be your alternate suggestion ? | 20:10 |
| jgriffith | works for me | 20:11 |
| annegentle | markmc: did the board say "do what you have to?" | 20:11 |
| Daviey | (As long as these don't suddenly become mandatory (unlikely) for Grizzly, i am a happy bunny :) | 20:11 |
| ttx | note that we can start the process based on our understanding, and stand corrected if needed | 20:11 |
| mordred | markmc: yeah, that sounds find. for some reason I thought ttx was suggesting we vote to ratify the work in progress state :) | 20:11 |
| annegentle | markmc: (Your list message just said something about red flags) | 20:11 |
| markmc | annegentle, there was some discussion about process, some support of the progress we made and no objections raised | 20:12 |
| markmc | annegentle, but there was no vote on anything | 20:12 |
| ttx | mordred: no, just want to tell the incubated project when they will be eaten and with what sauce | 20:12 |
| markmc | annegentle, and disclaimer: the official minutes would be the official "what the board said" record | 20:12 |
| markmc | annegentle, right, there were no red flags raised | 20:13 |
| annegentle | markmc: just looking for the big gotchas is all, sounds like there are none | 20:13 |
| ttx | OK, so everyone is fine with us looking into graduation in February, in time to meet PTL elections deadlines on March 1st ? | 20:13 |
| markmc | ttx, mordred, would we e.g. do s/Core/Integrated/ in our charter before we consider Heat/Ceilometer? | 20:13 |
| ttx | markmc: yes that's my next question actually | 20:13 |
| ttx | This new "integrated" concept triggers an interesting related question. As far as our "Charter" is concerned, we have two interpretation options: | 20:13 |
| ttx | 1. Consider that what we technically called "core" is now renamed to "integrated" -- and grant all (current and future) integrated projects a seat on the TC | 20:13 |
| ttx | 2. Consider that what is called "core" in the Charter still means "core" (although the joint committee did not define that term yet) -- and only grant "core" projects a seat on the TC | 20:13 |
| ttx | I much prefer interpretation 1 since otherwise we would basically give the BoD the right to choose which projects have guaranteed seats on the TC | 20:14 |
| markmc | personally, I had assumed (1) | 20:14 |
| ttx | but since that touches our Charter I figured I should ask the committee first :) | 20:14 |
| markmc | (2) hadn't even occurred to me | 20:14 |
| Daviey | Silly question .. There isn't intention to couple Ceilometer or Heat as a mandatory component in a deployment, rught? | 20:14 |
| ttx | Daviey: there is nothing mandatory. | 20:14 |
| mordred | Daviey: the only curently mandatory components are nova and swift | 20:14 |
| mordred | Daviey: and that's only if you want to use the trademark | 20:14 |
| markmc | the problem with (2) is it involves the Foundation Board in the question of "who gets a seat on the TC" | 20:15 |
| markmc | which seems strange | 20:15 |
| ttx | markmc: yep | 20:15 |
| mordred | yep | 20:15 |
| Daviey | sure, but i think most people would consider keystone & glance practically required | 20:15 |
| markmc | Daviey, nothing which is in the release currently would depend (even optionally) on Heat or Ceilometer | 20:15 |
| notmyname | ttx: while I agree with the spirit of (1), I'd prefer to wait until the committee finishes before redifining things. and choosing (2) does put some pressure on people to come up with the right definitions :-) | 20:16 |
| mordred | Daviey: sure. it's just that if you want to talk about _required_ - the only thing you guys are required to implement to call your thing openstack is nova and swift as things are currently written | 20:16 |
| ttx | notmyname: the problem is that I don't expect the committee to decide on that before the end of the month | 20:16 |
| ttx | *we can defer that decision until then | 20:16 |
| mordred | ttx: related to what notmyname said... | 20:16 |
| markmc | if we don't decide on (1) vs (2) before PTL elections | 20:16 |
| markmc | it would mean the new PTLs wouldn't know whether they will sit on the TC | 20:17 |
| annegentle | does heat or ceiliometer have stand-in PTLs now? We're not preventing their technical progress right? | 20:17 |
| mordred | what if we did (3) move forward as currently chartered, since it doesn't particularly conflict with the committee direction | 20:17 |
| markmc | (new PTLs, if any) | 20:17 |
| Daviey | mordred: I'm talking on a pure technical basis. I think markmc got what i was trying to convey, and confirmed my question perfectly. | 20:17 |
| mordred | Daviey: great | 20:17 |
| ttx | markmc: yeah, we kinda need to know before the election setup | 20:17 |
| ttx | otherwise it will get messy | 20:17 |
| ttx | but we could decide that on Feb 28, I guess | 20:17 |
| * ttx doesn't mind, he doesn't organize the elections this time around | 20:18 | |
| markmc | I'm starting to think the committee should just wrap up the incubation side of things this week | 20:18 |
| mordred | markmc: I agree | 20:18 |
| markmc | so the TC can move on without this debate over process | 20:18 |
| markmc | but ... | 20:18 |
| mordred | how about this? | 20:18 |
| markmc | does that mean we need a joint TC/Board meeting? | 20:18 |
| annegentle | markmc: yes some time pressure there seems appropriate | 20:18 |
| mordred | how about this week we see if we can get a motion out of the committee? | 20:19 |
| markmc | I'm sure we can | 20:19 |
| mordred | that can be taken to the all-day-in-person board meeting on tuesday | 20:19 |
| mordred | if that goes well, then we don't hav ea bunch of things to tap dance around on our side | 20:19 |
| markmc | but wasn't the idea the TC and Board would jointly discuss recommendations from the committee | 20:19 |
| ttx | mordred: I'm a bit concerned with the timing for the end of cycle graduation review | 20:19 |
| mordred | if it doesn't, then we make contingency plans | 20:19 |
| ttx | we have three meetings left: Feb 12, Feb 19, Feb 26 to consider Ceilometer and Heat | 20:19 |
| markmc | mordred, one thing, though - what is proposed doesn't *need* board sign-off IMHO | 20:20 |
| mordred | markmc: I might have been, but I cannot imagine a situation where that's productive | 20:20 |
| ttx | that's why we need a decision this week... but not necessarily today | 20:20 |
| mordred | markmc: not saying it needs sign-off | 20:20 |
| markmc | mordred, right, we just need to be careful about terminology here | 20:20 |
| mordred | markmc: but _something_ needs to be _something_ before we start changing our charter | 20:20 |
| ttx | OK, how about this... | 20:20 |
| ttx | We schedule the graduation review for the meeting of next weeks of February | 20:21 |
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| ttx | We try to get the committee to wrap up that first part of the process (incubation) | 20:21 |
| ttx | And hopefully next week we are all set /and/ don't lose a week in scheduling | 20:22 |
| mordred | I think that sounds great | 20:22 |
| markmc | so, next week ... | 20:22 |
| ttx | my only concern here is that we should start that review asap | 20:22 |
| ttx | It's a bit tight. Feb 12, mordred and markmc might be caught into the board meeting and I'm not sure where i'll be myself. Feb 26 I'm skiing and probably won't be around | 20:22 |
| markmc | both the TC and board vote on the committee's motion ? | 20:22 |
| ttx | (though I can miss meetings alright :) | 20:23 |
| markmc | maybe we have a vote now, that the TC is happy to not have a joint meeting with the board to discuss it | 20:23 |
| markmc | that we're happy with how things have gone? | 20:23 |
| markmc | meh | 20:23 |
| mordred | ttx: feb 12 when the TC is supposed to meet might be an opportune time to join the meetings... | 20:23 |
| ttx | mordred: now I'm confused | 20:24 |
| jgriffith | ttx: ditto | 20:24 |
| markmc | he's suggesting the TC join the board meeting next week | 20:24 |
| markmc | at this time | 20:24 |
| * ttx hates process in the way of progress, especially when 99% of people agree on the way forward | 20:24 | |
| markmc | not sure how we'd work the logistics for that | 20:24 |
| markmc | but maybe there isn't a better opportunity | 20:24 |
| markmc | ttx, agree massively, this feels like a tonne of busy work | 20:25 |
| mordred | I mena, we're going to be there anyway | 20:25 |
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| mordred | ++ | 20:25 |
| mordred | otoh, I _do_ think there is nothing stopping us from assessing heat/ceilometer over feb | 20:25 |
| ttx | i somehow doubt we'll have quorum on the phone/webex/whatever thing for other TC members | 20:25 |
| ttx | I'm physically present, I don't mind | 20:26 |
| markmc | mordred, there is - clarity on what graduation means | 20:26 |
| mordred | speaking of - if the next two weeks are iffy because of conflicts, what difference in action related to heat/ceilometer are you suggesting? | 20:26 |
| markmc | we can begin assessing for sure | 20:26 |
| markmc | gathering data | 20:26 |
| mordred | markmc: the only difference in what graduation means is whether their ptl gets a seat on the tC | 20:27 |
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| annegentle | So there's a need for a deadline for graduation assessment, that should coincide with the TC makeup of PTLs, right? | 20:27 |
| annegentle | Can we convince the board these deadlines need to be the same date? | 20:27 |
| markmc | mordred, currently, graduation means becoming core | 20:27 |
| mordred | which should not make a difference to our assessment, based on the conversatoins about not changing TC elections | 20:27 |
| markmc | mordred, it obviously doesn't mean that anymore | 20:27 |
| markmc | mordred, but does it mean the TC recommends the project for core? | 20:27 |
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| markmc | mordred, we have a consensus on what it means, but for some reason we're stalling on implementing that | 20:28 |
| ttx | I'd prefer to have the clear go-ahead on the process (which I thought we had) before we start it | 20:28 |
| mordred | ok. I'm not making myself clear, and I'm sorry for that ... let me try again | 20:28 |
| mordred | a) we have consensus, but right now we have consensus on something that a committee discussed, which means that I don't think that we need to amend our charter this instant | 20:29 |
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| mordred | b) the effective actual steps of action we will take in the next two weeks do not change whether we implement the committee's recommendations or not | 20:30 |
| mordred | so - I think we are free to move ahead as usual | 20:30 |
| mordred | and then push for reslution from the committee | 20:30 |
| ttx | works for me | 20:30 |
| mordred | unless I'm just WAY off base | 20:30 |
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| ttx | mordred/markmc: do you think we can have the TC meeting next week ? | 20:31 |
| annegentle | yeah I don't think the two items (graduation and TC makeup) HAVE to coincide | 20:31 |
| markmc | so long as we have the TC charter accurate before the discussion about ceilometer/heat graduation, fine | 20:31 |
| mordred | ttx: tough to say - I haven't seen the schedule - but I'm game to try to do both meetings at once :) | 20:31 |
| markmc | ttx, it'd be lunch time, we could probably join. mordred? | 20:31 |
| mordred | markmc: let's just tell jbryce that that's the way it has to be | 20:31 |
| markmc | so | 20:32 |
| ttx | annegentle: theydon't have to coincide, but one must finish before the other ;) | 20:32 |
| markmc | when does our discussion about ceilometer/heat graduation start? | 20:32 |
| annegentle | ttx: dependencies | 20:32 |
| ttx | markmc: next week | 20:32 |
| * markmc sighs | 20:32 | |
| markmc | are we going to have that discussion with e.g. | 20:32 |
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| markmc | "should ceilometer be core?" | 20:32 |
| markmc | confusing the whole thing again | 20:33 |
| mordred | markmc: does it matter? | 20:33 |
| annegentle | mordred: yes I think it does | 20:33 |
| markmc | yes, I think confusion will make the discussion difficult | 20:33 |
| mordred | hrm. weird. ok | 20:33 |
| ttx | markmc: ideally by then we should have the clear mandate to only discuss integration | 20:33 |
| markmc | mordred, "are we recommending ceilometer to the board for core inclusion?" | 20:33 |
| mordred | markmc: OH! | 20:33 |
| mordred | markmc: I understand something you said before now | 20:34 |
| mordred | ok | 20:34 |
| markmc | ok, between the committee and board | 20:34 |
| markmc | let's try and get this better wrapped up for next week | 20:34 |
| mordred | sorry, I let my viewpoint cloud my process-view | 20:34 |
| markmc | for next week's TC meeting | 20:34 |
| ttx | So let's proceed as if we'll get that | 20:34 |
| jgriffith | +1 | 20:34 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:34 |
| jgriffith | please, let's move forward one way or another! | 20:35 |
| ttx | jgriffith: yay, action | 20:35 |
| markmc | jgriffith, that's the thing - we could vote on this right now :) | 20:35 |
| markmc | jgriffith, the TC can change its own charter | 20:35 |
| markmc | jgriffith, within the bounds of its mandate under the bylaws | 20:35 |
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| jgriffith | markmc: I have no objection to that TBH | 20:35 |
| ttx | me neither | 20:35 |
| ttx | but I think mordred had | 20:35 |
| mordred | I do | 20:35 |
| * notmyname hasn't seen anything in the last 10 minutes (router issues) | 20:36 | |
| markmc | mordred, what exactly is the objection? | 20:36 |
| mordred | changing ourside of hte charter unilaterally | 20:36 |
| markmc | you could hardly call the last weeks and weeks of discussion on "unilaterally" | 20:36 |
| ttx | notmyname: you didn't miss anything useful. Just back on forth on the need to be extra careful on stuff everyone agrees about | 20:36 |
| notmyname | ttx: k, thanks | 20:36 |
| mordred | means that we would be voting projects into a structure that we do not know that the board will finally accept | 20:36 |
| markmc | mordred, I object to the notion that we can't do it without board approval | 20:36 |
| mordred | I agree | 20:36 |
| mordred | we can totally do it | 20:36 |
| mordred | I just don't think it gets us anywhere | 20:36 |
| annegentle | I'd rather not give incoming projects whiplash :) | 20:37 |
| ttx | notmyname: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-meeting/%23openstack-meeting.2013-02-05.log | 20:37 |
| jgriffith | mordred: I understand but on the other hand I'd rather make progress | 20:37 |
| jgriffith | if we have to adjust after the fact so be-it | 20:37 |
| markmc | mordred, so, process-wise - you think the TC might change its charter and later find the board has objections and the TC would then need to change again? | 20:37 |
| jgriffith | The other thing is maybe we can influence the board this way | 20:37 |
| markmc | mordred, seems pretty far fetched | 20:37 |
| * jgriffith likes to drive the bus, not ride it | 20:38 | |
| markmc | mordred, far fetched, given the level of discussion we've had to date openly, in the committee and with the board last week | 20:38 |
| mordred | markmc: sure. but you know what we didn't do last week? we didn't make a motion with the board? | 20:39 |
| mordred | s/?$// | 20:39 |
| jgriffith | markmc: mordred I guess my question is whether this seems to be controversial from the boards perspective anyway? | 20:39 |
| * mordred is PURELY being a process wonk | 20:39 | |
| jgriffith | hehe | 20:39 |
| markmc | mordred, me too :) | 20:39 |
| ttx | mordred: you're being a wrong process monk | 20:39 |
| markmc | mordred, I don't see that a board motion is required | 20:39 |
| markmc | mordred, what would they be approving? | 20:39 |
| ttx | on that matter, the TC is self-sufficient | 20:39 |
| jgriffith | ttx: +1 | 20:40 |
| markmc | this is important | 20:40 |
| markmc | when we want to change things we have a mandate to change | 20:40 |
| mordred | markmc: I don't know - what the hell is the point of the committee if there is not an official actual outcome? | 20:40 |
| * ttx happens to have written that charter and large parts of the bylaws whee they touch the tC | 20:40 | |
| markmc | will we always stall while we wait for board approval? | 20:40 |
| mordred | ON THIS, yes | 20:40 |
| mordred | this is the only thing where the board and the TC overlap | 20:40 |
| ttx | I can tell that we can move without the BoD formal approval. | 20:40 |
| markmc | mordred, to jointly discuss stuff and bring motions back to the appropriate board/tc that need to vote on the changes recommended | 20:40 |
| mordred | the only thing | 20:40 |
| markmc | mordred, I think the board would vote on the core side of the thing and the TC would vote on the incubation side of things | 20:41 |
| ttx | mordred: core inclusion yes. incubation no. | 20:41 |
| markmc | how about this? | 20:41 |
| markmc | me or ttx draft a TC motion for us to vote on next week | 20:42 |
| markmc | after discussion on list | 20:42 |
| mordred | ttx: but the only reason we're talking about this right now is that the question of whether we are going to recommend these for core inclusion is up for debate | 20:42 |
| markmc | we'll discuss it with the committee on thursday | 20:42 |
| markmc | and the board next week | 20:42 |
| mordred | markmc: heh. actually, that's required, now you mention it :) | 20:42 |
| markmc | and give everyone an opportunity to say | 20:42 |
| markmc | "we don't think you're following the right process, you need board approval before you can do this" | 20:42 |
| markmc | or whatever they might say | 20:42 |
| mordred | markmc: maybe that's the thing that was tripping my weird meter | 20:42 |
| mordred | markmc: ++ | 20:42 |
| ttx | markmc: that sounds like a great way to lose one of our 3 precious weeks. But why not | 20:42 |
| mordred | ttx: you have no choice | 20:43 |
| mordred | the rule is that a TC motion needs to be proposed a week before a vote | 20:43 |
| mordred | for adequate mailing list discussion | 20:43 |
| ttx | mordred: there is the choice to act now and ask for forgiveness later | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | ttx: a motto to live by :) | 20:43 |
| markmc | ttx, I think he's right on the week-to-discuss-a-motion thing | 20:43 |
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| ttx | mordred: I went back and forth on the need for a motion | 20:44 |
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| ttx | but with the propsoed motion being exactly what we were mlandated by the TC to push to the committee... | 20:44 |
| annegentle | ttx: Do the incoming projects want to know the whole story or just if they graduate to "integrated?" | 20:44 |
| ttx | we actually already voted on that | 20:44 |
| annegentle | whole story=TC makeup | 20:44 |
| ttx | mordred: I'm fine with voting twice on the same thing if you feel that's necessary | 20:44 |
| mordred | I'm very fuzzy on many things on this - I'll be the first to admit that | 20:44 |
| mordred | ttx: you want to change our charter without a specific motion and vote? | 20:45 |
| ttx | mordred: but then I'd say that the BoD tainted you | 20:45 |
| markmc | ttx, that was before e.g. the choice of the Integrated name and that we'd s/Core/Integrated/ in the charter | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | I can't help but wonder what the point of this TC is if we can't make decisions like this without approval etc | 20:45 |
| * markmc would prefer a motion | 20:45 | |
| ttx | mordred: we don't change the charter | 20:45 |
| mordred | oh. we don't? | 20:45 |
| ttx | mordred: we update the incubation process | 20:45 |
| mordred | see, this is why motions are helpful | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | hehe | 20:45 |
| mordred | they make it clear what we're deciding | 20:45 |
| markmc | heh | 20:46 |
| ttx | the only fuzzy points is that the charter uses the "core" word | 20:46 |
| ttx | as mentioned earlier | 20:46 |
| markmc | we change the process without changing the charter, heh | 20:46 |
| markmc | hadn't thought of that | 20:46 |
| markmc | think I'd prefer to do both together | 20:46 |
| ttx | the charter doesn't mention incubation. | 20:46 |
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| ttx | At all. | 20:46 |
| mordred | so, it's possible that you and I have been saying the same thing the whole time | 20:46 |
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| markmc | (don't feel strongly against just changing the process now and charter next week, though) | 20:47 |
| ttx | mordred: we might need to update the charter this month to account for the "integrated" concept | 20:47 |
| ttx | but that doesn't prevent us from looking into heat /ceilometer graduation | 20:47 |
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| mordred | just so I'm clear - the rush is because we might need to include the projects in the ptl election, right? | 20:48 |
| ttx | Well, and also in things like summit preparation but yes | 20:48 |
| mordred | k. just making sure | 20:48 |
| * mordred will enjoy watching the second heat ptl election in two months | 20:48 | |
| ttx | we need to know which projects are in the next release cycle' before we start it, basically | 20:48 |
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| ttx | markmc: you summarize, or should I ? | 20:49 |
| markmc | heh | 20:49 |
| markmc | go for it | 20:49 |
| ttx | argh :) | 20:49 |
| ttx | ok so: | 20:50 |
| * markmc doesn't know how to summarize all that quickly | 20:50 | |
| ttx | - we prepare a motion/whatever describing the process, and present it to incup, board and TC | 20:50 |
| ttx | - at the same time, we schedule the graduation review to start at next week meeting | 20:51 |
| ttx | so that we don't lose another week | 20:51 |
| markmc | (and to be clear, only the TC vote is an "approval" vote ... the others would be "expression of support" votes) | 20:51 |
| ttx | yes | 20:51 |
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| markmc | sounds good to me | 20:51 |
| ttx | objections ? | 20:52 |
| annegentle | and for the graduation review, are us TC members reviewing based on graduation to integrated or core or no graduation? | 20:52 |
| * markmc assumes most everyone has gone asleep ... this is boring | 20:52 | |
| ttx | annegentle: the motion will say "graduation to integrated", and hopefully should be all set by then* | 20:52 |
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| annegentle | ttx: sounds good | 20:53 |
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| ttx | annegentle: if shit happens we revisit | 20:53 |
| markmc | ttx, the left hands side of this: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1oLo1ETnRpNSgDj_m7p6o6tF7HHA2a-3XeKa-QLMBcRc/edit | 20:53 |
| ttx | if shit hits the fan, I'll blame mordred | 20:53 |
| markmc | I'll throw him into the harbour | 20:53 |
| ttx | markmc: yes | 20:53 |
| mordred | ttx: you always do :) | 20:53 |
| ttx | or the harbor | 20:53 |
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| ttx | #action markmc/ttx to prepare a motion/whatever describing the process, and present it FYI to incup, board and for vote on TC | 20:54 |
| ttx | #action ttx to schedule, at the same time, graduation review to start at next week meeting | 20:54 |
| ttx | question: do you think we should call projects one at a time or all together ? | 20:55 |
| markmc | a quick status update from both next week | 20:55 |
| markmc | might be a good way to start | 20:55 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:55 |
| markmc | "why we think we're ready" | 20:55 |
| ttx | sounds good | 20:55 |
| ttx | #topic Discussion: OpenStack compatibility test suite | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion: OpenStack compatibility test suite (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:56 | |
| ttx | Since we have a few minutes left... | 20:56 |
| ttx | The Foundation asked me to raise the topic of an openStack compatibility test suite to the TC | 20:56 |
| heckj | any more detail there? | 20:56 |
| markmc | oh dear | 20:56 |
| markmc | because that's not a rathole | 20:57 |
| jgriffith | hehe | 20:57 |
| annegentle | hee | 20:57 |
| ttx | A blackbox tool that can be used to assess support for the OpenStack API, and that could be used as part of the certification/labelling by the BoD | 20:57 |
| ttx | Good idea, bad idea ? | 20:57 |
| jgriffith | bad idea IMO | 20:57 |
| mordred | I think it's a great idea. I think it's hard | 20:57 |
| mordred | heh | 20:57 |
| ttx | Any hint how we could trigger more interest in the community around that ? | 20:57 |
| jgriffith | but I would entertain a version of that | 20:57 |
| danwent | i think its valuable, if done right. | 20:57 |
| ttx | ML posts, design summit session ? | 20:58 |
| markmc | reasonable idea, potential for disastrous implementation of said idea | 20:58 |
| ttx | It's one of those "sounds like a good idea, but nobody will have time to spend on doing it | 20:58 |
| jgriffith | So... are we going back to "The API is OpenStack" | 20:58 |
| mordred | I think it should be kind of like some other things ... if someone thinks it's a good idea, they can implement it and then point us at it | 20:58 |
| mordred | I don't think we're going back to that at all | 20:58 |
| ttx | mordred: problem is that the ones that think it's a good idea are not really technical | 20:58 |
| jgriffith | So I've had similar ideas at a smaller scale | 20:58 |
| jgriffith | IE drivers for cinder | 20:59 |
| mordred | ttx: I disagree with that | 20:59 |
| markmc | jgriffith, from discussions so far, I doubt API compliance would be enough - also needs to use the implementation released by us | 20:59 |
| gabrielhurley | If a third-party implementation can pass the same tests (exercise.sh and tempest) our code review gating goes through, that's compatible, right? ;-) | 20:59 |
| ttx | mordred: putting it differently, the ones who cared enough to ask me to raise that issue are not technical | 20:59 |
| mordred | ttx: I know brian aker brings up how helpful it was for them to have an API complliance checking tool for memcached all the time | 20:59 |
| jgriffith | but on an overall project level I'm not quite getting what this proposal means exactly | 20:59 |
| mordred | thing is - I think that's tempest | 20:59 |
| mordred | and if someone thinks it isn't tempest, they should add more features to tempest - it's already black-box | 21:00 |
| jgriffith | mordred: +1 | 21:00 |
| mordred | and we use it to validate our own cloud | 21:00 |
| markmc | there's also the potential the board could invest and hire someone to implement it | 21:00 |
| markmc | with our guidance | 21:00 |
| mordred | s/cloud/code/ | 21:00 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: I think they want to have the tool so that they can use it in rules, but they kinda want the tool available before discussing that :) | 21:00 |
| markmc | not sure if that's what anyone is proposing | 21:00 |
| mordred | markmc: can we hire someone to add it to tempest? | 21:00 |
| jgriffith | but but but.... | 21:00 |
| jgriffith | hold on folks... for the benefit of us slower people | 21:00 |
| ttx | anyway, just throwing the idea out there, just think about it | 21:00 |
| ttx | as time is over | 21:00 |
| jgriffith | I'm not really sure what this even accomplishes? | 21:00 |
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| markmc | stricter trademark rules | 21:01 |
| jgriffith | ttx: sure... drop a chaos grenade and run | 21:01 |
| markmc | or a new trademark program | 21:01 |
| mordred | ttx: seriously - can we clarify how what is being asked for is different from tempest? | 21:01 |
| heckj | jgriffith: stirring up the pot before another meeting, of coure | 21:01 |
| markmc | i.e. "OpenStack Certified" | 21:01 |
| jgriffith | heckj: go figure :) | 21:01 |
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| markmc | who knows | 21:01 |
| markwash | jgriffith: doing blackbox testing for drivers is a fantastic idea btw | 21:01 |
| ttx | mordred: let's talk when we meet | 21:01 |
| heckj | mordred: ttx please - they seem to be the same to me too | 21:01 |
| jgriffith | markmc: Yeah, I get that but I think a def of "openstack-cert" would be prudent first | 21:01 |
| mordred | heckj: ++ | 21:01 |
| jgriffith | markwash: I have a dream :) | 21:01 |
| mordred | heckj: ttx and I will jump on them next week | 21:02 |
| markmc | jgriffith, I'd like a def of "core" before anything else :) | 21:02 |
| markwash | jgriffith: since I bet most companies really want to implement drivers and not wholesale replacements (though I wouldn't be surprised if I were wrong on that measure) | 21:02 |
| jgriffith | markwash: TRUE DAT!!! | 21:02 |
| mordred | speaking of - any of your bay area folks, ttx, markmc and I will be in san fran on tuesday | 21:02 |
| ttx | ok moving on to next meeting | 21:02 |
| jgriffith | errr...mark | 21:02 |
| jgriffith | markmc!!!! | 21:02 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 5 21:02:37 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-02-05-20.02.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-02-05-20.02.txt | 21:02 |
| jgriffith | stupid keyboard | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-02-05-20.02.log.html | 21:02 |
| mordred | markwash: several public clouds have already implemented wholesale replacements | 21:02 |
| mordred | markwash: rax and hp both don't use keystone | 21:02 |
| markmc | well now, that was an exhausting meeting | 21:03 |
| mordred | markmc: ++ | 21:03 |
| markmc | time for a nap | 21:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 5 21:03:08 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:03 |
| markmc | noooo.... | 21:03 |
| markwash | mordred: true. . but I consider that bad for them and us | 21:03 |
| ttx | Agenda @ http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:03 |
| * ttx takes a few red pills | 21:03 | |
| * jgriffith is napping now | 21:03 | |
| mordred | markwash: me too! | 21:03 |
| ttx | markmc, heckj, notmyname, markwash, jgriffith, vishy, gabrielhurley, danwent: let's do it | 21:03 |
| jgriffith | ready! | 21:03 |
| danwent | hello | 21:03 |
| ttx | #topic General announcements | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General announcements (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| gabrielhurley | oh, the rest of us get to talk now? | 21:03 |
| markwash | o| | 21:03 |
| ttx | I pushed a proposal for a limited StringFreeze for projects following the upcoming Grizzly feature freeze in Feb 19 | 21:03 |
| jgriffith | gabrielhurley: don't count on it :) | 21:03 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-February/005303.html | 21:04 |
| heckj | o/ | 21:04 |
| ttx | If nobody complains I'll document it so that it can take effect at FeatureFreeze | 21:04 |
| gabrielhurley | +1 | 21:04 |
| annegentle | sounds good | 21:04 |
| jgriffith | works for /me | 21:04 |
| vishy | O/ | 21:04 |
| * heckj nods | 21:04 | |
| ttx | markmc, mordred, annegentle, davidkranz/jaypipes: Updates from Stable/CI/QA/Docs teams ? | 21:04 |
| mordred | o/ | 21:04 |
| mordred | uhm, things got shaky yesterday, but clarkb and fungi fixed everything | 21:04 |
| markmc | 2012.2.3 released last week, no regressions reported AFAIK | 21:04 |
| mordred | and I'm pushing through version updates to people | 21:04 |
| davidkranz | Any feedback about turning on the full gate? | 21:05 |
| davidkranz | ^^^ tempest | 21:05 |
| mordred | markmc: I may need to add more more versoin patch to oslo | 21:05 |
| * jgriffith is happy about it so far | 21:05 | |
| ttx | mordred: was wondering how badly the new long tests will fuck the money time for feature reviews | 21:05 |
| mordred | markmc: I found yet-another use case when upgrading glanceclient | 21:05 |
| markmc | mordred, ok, what for? | 21:05 |
| markmc | mordred, ah, I see | 21:05 |
| markmc | mordred, thought you meant something for first oslo-config tagging | 21:05 |
| mordred | markmc: glanceclient uses oslo-version in glanceclient/__init__.py :) | 21:05 |
| ttx | mordred: do we have any idea of the impact on the number of commits per day, for example ? | 21:05 |
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| mordred | ttx: we don't - it shouldn't matter, we have zuul | 21:06 |
| mordred | ttx: yesterday's problem was log files blowing out disks | 21:06 |
| ttx | mordred: it shouldn't matter if we had no false negatives | 21:06 |
| jgriffith | ttx: mordred It is going to be interesting when we hit the last week of the milestone | 21:06 |
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| mordred | ++ | 21:06 |
| mordred | to both jgriffith and ttx | 21:06 |
| ttx | unfortunately we don't live in that ideal world yet | 21:06 |
| mordred | we never will | 21:07 |
| ttx | so it does matter | 21:07 |
| annegentle | I have a brief set of reminders. | 21:07 |
| ttx | annegentle: shoot | 21:07 |
| annegentle | Wiki migration going to 2/16, monthly doc team meeting 2/12, about to send a copyright guidance note to the -dev ML, operator's book sprint 2/24. | 21:07 |
| annegentle | whew | 21:07 |
| ttx | cool | 21:07 |
| ttx | ok, anything else before we move to project-specific stuff ? | 21:08 |
| ttx | #topic Oslo status | 21:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:08 | |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/oslo/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 21:08 |
| markmc | oslo-config is ready to tag | 21:08 |
| markmc | hope to move some/most projects to it next week | 21:09 |
| ttx | markmc: oh, thought that was done already (tag) | 21:09 |
| markmc | common-db is pretty close now, I think - did a bunch of work on it | 21:09 |
| markmc | cfg-filter-view is new and I've a patch up | 21:09 |
| ttx | that answers my two questions, thanks | 21:09 |
| ttx | markmc: ETA to tag ? | 21:09 |
| markmc | keyring might not make it | 21:09 |
| markmc | I don't know what's stopping me, tbh :) | 21:09 |
| ttx | markmc: do it in meeting. That's how I roll | 21:10 |
| markmc | I haven't actually got a patch through gerrit for oslo-config yet | 21:10 |
| ttx | Anything else on the oslo topic ? | 21:10 |
| markmc | would seem odd to tag before that | 21:10 |
| markmc | no, nothing else | 21:10 |
| ttx | thx! | 21:10 |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:10 | |
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| ttx | heckj: o/ | 21:10 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 21:10 |
| heckj | ola | 21:11 |
| ttx | heckj/dolphm: Should 'default-domain' be considered completed now ? | 21:11 |
| dolphm | ttx: the last piece is in review | 21:11 |
| ttx | dolphm: for some reason it's not linked. Ok | 21:12 |
| heckj | ttx: will change to pending review | 21:12 |
| ttx | heckj/ayoung: How are 'replace-tenant-user-membership' and 'trusts' going on ? | 21:12 |
| heckj | ayoung was still asserting we'd get them in | 21:12 |
| ttx | time is running low and tests running longer | 21:13 |
| ayoung | 'replace-tenant-user-membership' is close | 21:13 |
| ttx | heckj: could you elaborate on why pluggable-identity-authentication-handlers is blocked ? Is it technical or resource block ? | 21:13 |
| ayoung | I'm down to about 6 unit test failuers | 21:13 |
| ayoung | failures | 21:13 |
| ttx | ayoung: good news | 21:13 |
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| ayoung | trying to get that closed out today...tomorrowish | 21:14 |
| ttx | ayoung: would be great | 21:14 |
| ttx | heckj: ? | 21:15 |
| ttx | Didn't see a lot of help coming on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20524/ -- does that jeopardize stop-ids-in-uris ? | 21:15 |
| heckj | we unblocked the authn/authz pieces for gyee, and he has implementation in progress (pending final agreement on the spec) - expecting that to move forward fairly agressively now | 21:15 |
| heckj | ttx: if you'll look now, it's been approved - sorted through that with this morning's keystone meeting | 21:16 |
| ttx | heckj: which one of those blueprints (if any) would you require a feature freeze exception for, if they don't make it in time ? | 21:16 |
| heckj | most critical would be "Implement auth on Identity API v3" and "Token trusts", but I expect both to wing in under the deadline | 21:17 |
| ttx | ok, good! | 21:17 |
| ttx | Anything more about Keystone ? | 21:17 |
| heckj | not from me | 21:17 |
| ttx | #topic Swift status | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:18 | |
| ttx | notmyname: o/ | 21:18 |
| notmyname | here (as long as IRC connections are cooperating) | 21:18 |
| ttx | Still can't find python-swiftclient 1.3.0 on PyPI | 21:18 |
| notmyname | I poked mordred with a sharp stick last week about it | 21:18 |
| ttx | Been complaining about that to mordred, maybe you can take the other 12-h nagging shift :) | 21:18 |
| mordred | clarkb is aware of it now | 21:18 |
| notmyname | :-) | 21:18 |
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| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/swift/+milestone/1.8.0 | 21:18 |
| mordred | which means something might actually happen :) | 21:18 |
| ttx | Do you expect that one to be the Grizzly one, or do you rather imagine two releases until common release, or no idea yet ? | 21:19 |
| notmyname | that will probably be grizzly, based on when the cutoff will be | 21:19 |
| ttx | ok | 21:20 |
| ttx | Anything more on Swift ? | 21:20 |
| notmyname | that will probably be grizzly, based on when the cutoff will be | 21:20 |
| ttx | looks like the Network is not with you today, let's move on | 21:21 |
| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:21 | |
| markwash | hi hi | 21:21 |
| notmyname | not from me. swift meeting tomorrow | 21:21 |
| ttx | markwash: o/ | 21:21 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/glance/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 21:21 |
| ttx | Saw code being proposed for glance-api-v2-image-sharing, which is good | 21:22 |
| ttx | Is the review progressing well ? | 21:22 |
| markwash | it is, I have been in talks with iccha | 21:22 |
| markwash | very good progress | 21:22 |
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| markwash | I expect it (and everything labeled Good Progress) to land in time | 21:22 |
| ttx | I see api-v2-property-protection is not started yet -- do you still think it can make it in master in less than two weeks ? | 21:22 |
| markwash | as an absurd optimist, yes | 21:22 |
| markwash | but I've been in talks with bcwaldon about retargeting | 21:23 |
| ttx | I'd rather get one in rather than target 2 and get none | 21:23 |
| ttx | markwash: do you know if Brian got the answers he was looking for from other assignees ? | 21:23 |
| markwash | I know that he got some, but we are still looking for info on common image properties | 21:23 |
| ttx | ok... The last thing I wanted to mention are the late blueprints: iscsi-backend-store and its dependency, importing-rootwarp | 21:24 |
| markwash | probably mostly proposals, rather than info :-) | 21:24 |
| rainya | markwash, if you have specifics, let me know and i'll bug folks on this end :) | 21:24 |
| ttx | I think jgriffith makes a really nice point in the first review: more generally piggybacking on cinder sounds like a hell of a better solution than reimplementing block storage drivers in Glance | 21:24 |
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| ttx | And that would benefit from some design discussion, like say at the Design Summit | 21:24 |
| markwash | I agree with jgriffith, however. . | 21:24 |
| markwash | I think I need to feel like its doing some harm before I could argue that it shouldn't be included | 21:24 |
| jgriffith | markwash: ttx I'll yield but I think it would have made more sense to use cinder | 21:25 |
| markwash | the way it looks to me, (apart from rootwrap which is fine) it is well contained | 21:25 |
| ttx | markwash: you could argue that adding rootwrap for Glance is a bit of a large hammer for a weird nail | 21:25 |
| jgriffith | markwash: ttx I also understand something is better than nothing, but I would definitely want to see it changed in H | 21:25 |
| markwash | ttx: that may be | 21:26 |
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| ttx | jgriffith: I feel like accepting that is liekly to make the right solution[tm] harder to implement | 21:26 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: sadly, yes | 21:26 |
| ttx | since we'll have to support upgarde scenarios etc | 21:26 |
| markwash | hmm, you guys are speaking my language | 21:26 |
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| jgriffith | I can shift my priorities to try and have an alternative if folks agree with me on it | 21:26 |
| ttx | sounds like something that could live in a branch rather than in a release | 21:27 |
| jgriffith | ttx: +1 | 21:27 |
| jgriffith | I hadn't thought of that | 21:27 |
| ttx | anyway, bcwaldon decides | 21:27 |
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| markwash | well, good feedback. I'll take it to bcwaldon and discuss | 21:27 |
| ttx | Anything more on Glance ? | 21:27 |
| markwash | not from me | 21:27 |
| ttx | #topic Quantum status | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quantum status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:27 | |
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| ttx | danwent: hi! | 21:28 |
| danwent | hi | 21:28 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/quantum/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 21:28 |
| danwent | yeah.... | 21:28 |
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| ttx | Not so much progress in stuff under review, afaict | 21:28 |
| danwent | well, the good news is that all of our 'high' items have code posted. | 21:28 |
| danwent | but for the overall bulk, very little progres over the week. | 21:28 |
| ttx | Could you give us an update on how close we are to merging those ? | 21:28 |
| danwent | yes | 21:28 |
| ttx | (the high stuff) | 21:28 |
| ttx | danwent: it's my understanding that you would require Feature freeze exceptions only for the 'High' priority stuff here, if it doesn't make it in time. Correct ? | 21:29 |
| danwent | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-v2-api-xml: very close. just minor design discussions. | 21:29 |
| danwent | yes, that is correct. anything that is not high will be booted next week if not in code review, and booted completely the next week if it does not merge. no exceptions. | 21:29 |
| danwent | i fully expect the majority of medium items not to merge. | 21:29 |
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| danwent | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-security-groups-iptables-ovs . quantum code review is basically done. waiting on two nova issues. | 21:30 |
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| danwent | one is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1050433 | 21:30 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1050433 in nova "LibvirtBridgeDriver crashes when spawning an instance with NoopFirewallDriver" [High,In progress] | 21:30 |
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| danwent | the other is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantum/+bug/1112912 | 21:30 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1112912 in nova "get_firewall_required should use VIF parameter from quantum" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 21:30 |
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| ttx | vishy: ^ | 21:31 |
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| danwent | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/quantum-scheduler . A lot of review progress on this. I am confident about this, though the dev will be out for a chinese holiday next week, which puts some pressure on us (though he said he will continue to work on this through the holiday) | 21:31 |
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| danwent | the last two blueprints are the LBaaS stuff, the second of which was just posted for review yesterday | 21:32 |
| danwent | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/lbaas-agent-and-rpc | 21:32 |
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| ttx | ok | 21:32 |
| danwent | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/lbaas-haproxy-driver | 21:32 |
| ttx | Should https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/+spec/nvp-port-security-extension be considered 'Implemented' ? | 21:32 |
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| danwent | i'm starting to get a bit nervous about the lbaas stuff, as the original code was a fair bit different than what the cores where expecting. But we talked through it on IRC yesterday, so I think we're heading in the right direction. Definitely the one i'm most worried about though in terms of possibly needing a FFE. | 21:33 |
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| ttx | danwent: it's relatively self-contained I suspect ? | 21:33 |
| danwent | ttx: looks like that BP should be implemented. i'll confirm with the dev and change it. | 21:33 |
| ttx | Should I confirm the series goal for routed-service-insertion to "grizzly" ? | 21:34 |
| ttx | (it's 'proposed' right now) | 21:34 |
| danwent | ttx: yes, lbass is essentially entirely self-contained, which is nice from an FFE perspective, if needed. | 21:34 |
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| danwent | yes please | 21:34 |
| ttx | willdo | 21:34 |
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| danwent | that one a new one (hopefully the last) | 21:34 |
| ttx | Anything else on Quantum ? | 21:34 |
| danwent | one question for the community | 21:34 |
| danwent | we are looking at how to version our python-quantumclient stuff. | 21:35 |
| danwent | i'd like it to be as inline with the rest of the community as possible. | 21:35 |
| danwent | was wondering if there was a "standard" mechanism used by other projects. | 21:35 |
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| ttx | danwent: bcwaldon had a pretty strong feeling about that | 21:35 |
| danwent | ok, i will loop him into the discussion with our sub-team lead for clientlib + CLI | 21:35 |
| ttx | ok, moving on, answer on #openstack-dev to Dan's question on versioning | 21:36 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:36 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: hi! | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | hey there | 21:36 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 21:36 |
| ttx | Every week I discover more blueprints in here :) | 21:36 |
| ttx | How is volume-backups going ? | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | :) | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | Good | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | A few minor nits to fix up | 21:37 |
| ttx | How about api-v1-v2-docs ? | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | That's going well too... | 21:37 |
| ttx | Do you think you need to drop anything early to focus review efforts on the priority stuff... or you can trust cinder-core to prioritize properly ? | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | I'm fairly comfortable with what's left | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | But I am worried about what the NFS folks are cookin up | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | I fear a 10K line patch dropping next wed from them | 21:38 |
| ttx | FYI you have 4 drivers + one other bp targeted to g3 which are not in the series goal: huawei-volume-driver, scality-volume-driver, coraid-volume-driver, glusterfs-support, volume-usage-metering | 21:38 |
| ttx | this morning when I looked up there were only 3 :) | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | Yeah, I'm not seeing good progress on those guys so I'm giving them til tomorrow then dumping | 21:38 |
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| ttx | it's high season for surprising code drops | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | I need to catch up with eharney on the gluster patch | 21:39 |
| ttx | Do you see anything in there you'd request feature freeze exceptions for, if they would not make it by grizzly-3 ? | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | The only one is my AZ/Aggregates BP | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | the rest I personally think I can live without | 21:39 |
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| ttx | jgriffith: which one is that ? | 21:39 |
| ttx | jgriffith: could you prioritize it at least to 'high' ? | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | will do | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | TBH, I can call that a bug anyway if need be | 21:40 |
| ttx | Anything more in Cinder ? | 21:40 |
| jgriffith | Nope looking ok | 21:40 |
| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:40 | |
| ttx | vishy: o/ | 21:40 |
| ttx | russellb is down, Flusdem got him | 21:41 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 21:41 |
| ttx | do we have vishy ? | 21:41 |
| rainya | get down get funky | 21:41 |
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| ttx | gabrielhurley: around ? | 21:41 |
| gabrielhurley | hi | 21:42 |
| ttx | #topic Horizon status | 21:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:42 | |
| ttx | let's do horizon first | 21:42 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/horizon/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 21:42 |
| gabrielhurley | on the blueprints: | 21:42 |
| gabrielhurley | The 7 in code review will likely all merge this week. The 3 in "good progress" I've got updates from the assignees and they should be up for review soon. The 2 that are "started" are both in good shape and I know where the authors are at but they're optional for the release; if they don't make it no harm is done. Lastly, I am worried about the two related to file/image uploads. Saw early code and progress, but haven't g | 21:42 |
| gabrielhurley | Overall, anything I don't see code for by next week I'm going to untarget. | 21:42 |
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| ttx | gabrielhurley: Do you see anything in there you'd request feature freeze exceptions for, if they would not make it by grizzly-3 ? | 21:43 |
| gabrielhurley | the image uplaod stuff would be the only one | 21:43 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd really like to see that happen | 21:43 |
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| gabrielhurley | but I need more info | 21:43 |
| ttx | hmm ok, would be really good to see progress on that then | 21:43 |
| gabrielhurley | agreed | 21:43 |
| ttx | Anything more on Horizon ? | 21:43 |
| gabrielhurley | I'm trying to follow up | 21:43 |
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| gabrielhurley | nope, that's it for this week. thakns to everyone who got code up since last week! | 21:44 |
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| ttx | (the file upload stuff is a bit disruptive to land after g3, so it better be very close) | 21:44 |
| vishy | sorry back | 21:44 |
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| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:44 | |
| gabrielhurley | duly noted | 21:44 |
| ttx | just in time | 21:44 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 21:44 |
| ttx | vishy: Should instance-actions be considered Implemented ? | 21:45 |
| alaski | not yet | 21:45 |
| alaski | needs an API extension which I'm finishing up now | 21:45 |
| ttx | Looking into the High-prio stuff now... | 21:45 |
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| ttx | vishy: Are the db-* blueprints making good progress ? | 21:45 |
| vishy | no | 21:46 |
| vishy | well i don't think they will be "complete" | 21:46 |
| ttx | ah. I see what you mean | 21:46 |
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| ttx | Guess we'll just split them | 21:46 |
| ttx | though db-archiving would be nice | 21:47 |
| vishy | yeah | 21:47 |
| ttx | that's "completeable" I guess | 21:47 |
| vishy | we'll just have to see how it goes | 21:47 |
| ttx | Is no-db-compute still on track ? | 21:47 |
| ttx | i.e. all code proposed, just churning through reviews now ? | 21:47 |
| vishy | yes i think it is really close | 21:48 |
| vishy | like one review away | 21:48 |
| ttx | vishy: which one of those blueprints (if any) would you require a feature freeze exception for, if they don't make it in time ? | 21:48 |
| ttx | no-db-compute, db-archiving ? | 21:48 |
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| vishy | no none of the db ones | 21:49 |
| vishy | i would consider https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/nova-quantum-security-group-proxy | 21:49 |
| vishy | no-db-compute isn't at risk imo | 21:49 |
| ttx | ok | 21:49 |
| vishy | i would also consider https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/improve-block-device-handling if it gets really close | 21:49 |
| ttx | multi-boot-instance-naming still needs some assignee and love | 21:49 |
| ttx | or should we abadon it altogether at this point ? | 21:50 |
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| vishy | i think it is going to get abandoned for grizzly at this point | 21:51 |
| vishy | since no one wants to take it | 21:51 |
| ttx | ok, will move it off if nobody takes it this week | 21:51 |
| ttx | or yo can beat me to it | 21:51 |
| ttx | You also have your share of last-minute grizzly-3 suggestions: migrate-volume-block-migration, user-locale-api, encrypt-cinder-volumes, libvirt-aoe, pass-rxtx-factor-to-quantum | 21:51 |
| ttx | Some of those sound quite complex to me to be introduced from scratch at this point in the cycle | 21:51 |
| * ttx would like an ideal world where all blueprints are submitted before the design summit | 21:52 | |
| vishy | i'm going through those | 21:52 |
| ttx | and flying cars, too | 21:52 |
| rustlebee | i tried to start commenting on some of those, saying code better show up asap to have the slightest chance | 21:52 |
| ttx | rustlebee: you're alive ? | 21:53 |
| rustlebee | just a little | 21:53 |
| rainya | i totes want flying cars | 21:53 |
| ttx | Any question on Nova ? | 21:53 |
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| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:54 | |
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| ttx | Any Heat/Ceilometer folk around ? | 21:54 |
| sdake_z | hi | 21:54 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/grizzly-3 | 21:54 |
| ttx | sdake: Do you plan to have a strict feature freeze at grizzly-3 ? | 21:54 |
| sdake_z | not much progress last week, 80% of the devs were at conferences | 21:55 |
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| sdake_z | yes strict feature freeze | 21:55 |
| ttx | You'll have to enforce it without my help, can't spread too much | 21:55 |
| sdake_z | we may bounce blueprints if they dont make | 21:55 |
| sdake_z | if they dont make it | 21:55 |
| ttx | it's just a question of teaching core reviewers what's acceptable or not :) | 21:55 |
| sdake_z | heat is usable as is | 21:55 |
| ttx | How are those resource-type-* blueprints progressing ? | 21:55 |
| sdake_z | yup i'll speak about it this week | 21:55 |
| sdake_z | well we are blocked because we are having trouble with quantum | 21:56 |
| ttx | glad to see I'm not the only one | 21:56 |
| sdake_z | but again devs out of town so only 1 day spent on unblocking so far | 21:56 |
| ttx | ok | 21:56 |
| sdake_z | main focus really for g3 is fixing bugs ;) | 21:56 |
| ttx | that's all I had :) | 21:56 |
| sdake_z | want heat to work well for features we have | 21:56 |
| ttx | nijaba: around ? | 21:56 |
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| ttx | I guess not | 21:58 |
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| ttx | nijaba: my only question was about feature freeze, if you planned to align it with the common one | 21:59 |
| ttx | that will be for next week. | 21:59 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 5 21:59:18 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-02-05-21.03.html | 21:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-02-05-21.03.txt | 21:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-02-05-21.03.log.html | 21:59 |
| rainya | woohoo! | 21:59 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: wow, I wouldn't have bet I'd finish in time this one | 21:59 |
| heckj | heh | 21:59 |
| gabrielhurley | ha | 21:59 |
| ttx | can't wait until we have two more projects to fit in one hour | 21:59 |
| ttx | looks like an experiment, how many projects does it need to trigger a RM burnout | 22:00 |
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| rainya | you did great, ttx | 22:00 |
| gabrielhurley | oooookay, horizon meeting time | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | #startmeeting horizon | 22:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 5 22:01:12 2013 UTC. The chair is gabrielhurley. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 22:01 |
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| gabrielhurley | #topic General status update | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General status update (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:01 | |
| gabrielhurley | Lots of code up for review at the moment | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | I went through this morning and tried to make sure everything had feedback. | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | there are several that need a second +2/approval | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | the blueprints that have been posted are all looking good | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic Blueprints and bugs | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints and bugs (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:02 | |
| gabrielhurley | speaking of blueprints | 22:02 |
| mrunge | hi, just a short update, I also did my duty on reviews | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | excellent. thank you. | 22:02 |
| mrunge | so, we have several approved now | 22:02 |
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| gabrielhurley | yep, jenkins will churn away on them | 22:02 |
| mrunge | yupp | 22:03 |
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| zykes- | gabrielhurley: speaking of bps will the introspection land ? | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | zykes-: no, that one got dropped out of Grizzly several weeks ago, sorry. It'll be an early-H feature | 22:03 |
| zykes- | awww :( | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah, I know. sadface. | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | ;-) | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | In terms of remaining work to be done for Grizzly, we've got just over two weeks. | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | That means anyone who'd like to get their code in should get a review up by this time next week | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | I know it's a big push to get to the end | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | but the deadline's the deadline, and ttx doesn't like feature freeze exceptions. ;-) | 22:05 |
| mrunge | should we do a combined test day or so? | 22:06 |
| mrunge | just to be sure, everything is tested then again? | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | I generally go by the rule of "that's what the RC period is for" | 22:06 |
| zykes- | gabrielhurley: question also, is there support for the domain / project stuff and new quantum lbaas stuff ? | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | zykes-: quantum LBaaS is in progress but not currently targeted. I will accept it if it's proposed in the near future. The quantum team is hard at work on it. | 22:07 |
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| gabrielhurley | domain management in keystone got hammered out too late for horizon to do much in adopting the v3 API, so that'll be H as well | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | Overall, I'd like to see folks hammering on the blueprints for the next 1-2 weeks, and then we'll have time for a testing effort and bug bash in the RC phase. That's always the best time to polish. | 22:08 |
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| zykes- | that's kinda sad face that major features aren't landed in the UI | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | zykes-: it's been that kind of dev cycle... horizon's a tricky project 'cuz our work is so dependent on other projects getting things nailed down in a reasonable timeframe. | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | We usually end up with a very busy final milestone because of it | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | and only so much fits in | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | but in a positive light, we've had a lot of new folks coming in during the last milestone and a half so that bodes very well for getting lots done in H! :-) | 22:11 |
| amotoki | hi | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | hi amotoki. how're things going in quantum-land? | 22:11 |
| amotoki | I just joined the channel. I am looking at the log. | 22:11 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: yeah right, blame me :) | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | ttx: you're the best scapegoat | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | amotoki: okay. no worries. | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | is either davidlenwell or cody-somerville around? | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd really like to get an update on the file/image upload blueprints | 22:13 |
| gabrielhurley | if not I'll follow up via email | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | cody-somerville was here a minute ago... | 22:14 |
| cody-somerville | i | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | oh well. email it is. | 22:14 |
| cody-somerville | er. | 22:14 |
| cody-somerville | Hey :) | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | oh | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | hi! | 22:14 |
| cody-somerville | So I need to sync up with David. | 22:14 |
| cody-somerville | I've did the bit the allow one to upload an image like you can upload to swift through Horizon | 22:15 |
| cody-somerville | but uploading multi-gig file that way isn't really realistic | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | it's certainly not ideal | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | but it might be better to land it as such in G3 and document deployment considerations there | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | then in H we can improve it | 22:16 |
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| cody-somerville | Ok. Was going to ask about that. | 22:16 |
| cody-somerville | Was wondering if I should bother to implement some sort of streaming | 22:16 |
| cody-somerville | or if we should get glance people to implement something similar to formpost that swift has | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | can you do that in under two weeks? ;-) | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | I was talking to brian waldon about that the other day | 22:16 |
| cody-somerville | One thing I noticed about formpost for swift is that the swift account has to have a temp key thingie set on it. | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | we may see something of that nature in H | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | I don't think we'd see it implemented in glance exactly like in swift (which has tons of legacy auth stuff going on), but it's not gonna be a grizzly feature | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | and we could help shape the requirement/developemtn for that | 22:17 |
| cody-somerville | If we do the formpost bit for swift, is just creating a random temp url key on the swift account ok if there isn't one already? (I assume we can fetch the current key if there is one set). | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | so yeah, I think as long as we thoroughly document the deployment considerations and security implications (and perhaps add a settings flag to enable/disable the direct upload form/modal) then merging it with a naive file upload is gonna be good enough for Grizzly | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | for swift that's fine as far as I know | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | cody-somerville: can you get a review up (even if it's still a little rough) by this time next week? | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd really rather not 11th-hour merge this one, ya know :-) | 22:19 |
| cody-somerville | Sure. For the image-upload patch, the only thing remaining is some more tests plus UI consideration from David. | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | awesome | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | that's good news | 22:20 |
| cody-somerville | I've only just added another input to the form for the file (and logic to handle only accepting one or the other). I assume we'll want to do something nicer looking with JS. | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | that'd be ideal | 22:21 |
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| gabrielhurley | as noted, though, substance counts more right now. there's more time to polish afterward | 22:21 |
| amotoki | gabrielhurley: about quantum we have 6 BPs now. summary is here: http://wiki.openstack.org/Network/Meetings#line-127 | 22:21 |
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| cody-somerville | so this will implement image-upload but what exactly do we want to do for the file-upload-refux bp? | 22:22 |
| cody-somerville | *redux | 22:22 |
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| gabrielhurley | cody-somerville: I though part of davidlenwell's code was about a nice fancy upload widget. he showed me something back at the end of G2 that wasn't too far off... | 22:22 |
| gabrielhurley | amotoki: I'm curious how the "network topology" blueprint is coming along? is that still gonna land in G3? | 22:23 |
| gabrielhurley | I remember nachi's demo at the summit so I'm surprised it hasn't been proposed for review yet. | 22:24 |
| amotoki | I will ask nachi about its status. | 22:24 |
| gabrielhurley | thanks | 22:24 |
| zykes- | demo what ? :) | 22:24 |
| cody-somerville | Ok. Cool. So file-upload-redux is about the UI. Thought maybe there was work on the backend you wanted done for the spec. | 22:24 |
| gabrielhurley | zykes-: it was a network topology visualization. cool stuff. | 22:24 |
| mrunge | oh, cool | 22:25 |
| amotoki | gabrielhurley: perhaps he must be writng a unittests. i will ask him to update the status. | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | cody-somerville: the idea was simply to make a reusable UI widget so that file uploading was consistent across image upload, swift upload, etc. and have it be a good experience. | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | amotoki: thanks. are there any of the other blueprints you are concerned about? it sounds like they're all going pretty well to me. | 22:26 |
| amotoki | gabrielhurley: for other stuffs in quantum, quantum-lbaas has a steady progross and i am asking the status update to KC (from bigswitch) | 22:26 |
| zykes- | amotoki: is bsn involved in that stuff ? | 22:27 |
| zykes- | I thought it was some other oflks | 22:27 |
| amotoki | zykes-: yes. they are woring on quantum-lbaas | 22:27 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic General discussion | 22:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:28 | |
| gabrielhurley | anything else people would like to cover? the blueprints were my main taopic. | 22:28 |
| lcheng | gabriel: Does the rbac update to use the policy api going into G? :-) | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | *topic | 22:28 |
| gabrielhurley | lcheng: keystone still hasn't gotten the policy file rollup into the v3 API, so no. | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | that is easily the most delayed feature I've ever dealt with | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | I think it's been bumped out of three releases now | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | E, F and G | 22:29 |
| gabrielhurley | but given how far the v3 API came along in Grizzly I don't think it will escape from Havana | 22:30 |
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| lcheng | argh, I thought the policy api is already included in V3 API. Would be a nice feature to have. | 22:30 |
| lcheng | Thanks | 22:30 |
| gabrielhurley | policy API *for keystone* is included | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | but we need the policy API for *all the projects* | 22:31 |
| gabrielhurley | they didn't quite get there | 22:31 |
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| lcheng | got it. | 22:31 |
| amotoki | gabrielhurley: about my quantum secgroup patch, some part (vm launching panel) may need to be splited and extended. | 22:32 |
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| gabrielhurley | no problem | 22:32 |
| amotoki | gabrielhurley: i have no concerns about others. | 22:32 |
| lcheng | btw, I got the change-password bp. Would you like it to be included for G3? | 22:32 |
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| vkmc | gabrielhurley, Before moving away from bp, I wanted to know your opinions about the tenant deletion blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/tenant-deletion | 22:33 |
| gabrielhurley | lcheng: sure. put up a review | 22:33 |
| lcheng | okay | 22:33 |
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| gabrielhurley | vkmc: everything you've proposed for it sounds great. just the coding that remins, right? ;-) | 22:33 |
| gabrielhurley | *remains | 22:33 |
| vkmc | gabrielhurley, Yeah, but also I found that OpenStack allows to manage some resources that are available from the clients but not yet from Horizon (e.g. cloudpipes and agents in Nova, vips and members in Quantum). That is, that resources cannot be managed from the Dashboard. Should they be taken into account when deleting a tenant? | 22:34 |
| gabrielhurley | I would say no for now, though it'd be good to make a note of that (probably comments in the code) | 22:34 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd just be hesitant to start deleting anything from the dashboard that you can't *see* from the dashboard | 22:35 |
| vkmc | gabrielhurley, Fair enough | 22:35 |
| vkmc | gabrielhurley, I'd also appreciate some feedback regarding the UI http://imgur.com/a/I8zsu#0 | 22:35 |
| vkmc | gabrielhurley, I'm worried that it's too massive | 22:36 |
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| gabrielhurley | looks great but yeah, might be biting off more than you can chew for v1 | 22:36 |
| gabrielhurley | but use your judgment on that part | 22:36 |
| vkmc | gabrielhurley, Great, I'll do that then | 22:37 |
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| gabrielhurley | excellent | 22:37 |
| gabrielhurley | anybody else? | 22:37 |
| gabrielhurley | great! good meeting everyone. keep up the hard work during the final stretch here. propose your code in gerrit, and I'll talk to you all same time next week! | 22:38 |
| gabrielhurley | #endmeeting | 22:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 22:38 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 5 22:38:16 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:38 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-02-05-22.01.html | 22:38 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-02-05-22.01.txt | 22:38 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-02-05-22.01.log.html | 22:38 |
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| mrunge | thanks! | 22:38 |
| jpich | Thanks everyone | 22:38 |
| kspear | cheers | 22:38 |
| amotoki | have a good day | 22:38 |
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| vkmc | Thanks, good day! | 22:39 |
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| reed | question from new developer: if one wants to run the full set of jenkins tests without sending a patch for review, where do they go? | 22:59 |
| reed | oops, wrong channel, sorry | 23:00 |
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