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| nijaba | #startmeeting Ceilometer | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nijaba | #meetingtopic Ceilometer | 15:00 |
| nijaba | #chair nijaba | 15:00 |
| nijaba | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/MeteringAgenda | 15:00 |
| nijaba | ATTENTION: please keep discussion focused on topic until we reach the open discussion topic | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 7 15:00:01 2013 UTC. The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Current chairs: nijaba | 15:00 |
| eglynn_ | o/ | 15:00 |
| spn__ | o/ | 15:00 |
| n0ano | o/ | 15:00 |
| nijaba | o/ | 15:00 |
| danspraggins | o/ | 15:00 |
| sew | o/ | 15:00 |
| jd__ | o/ | 15:00 |
| *** salv-orlando has quit IRC | 15:00 | |
| nijaba | nice to see all of you! let's start | 15:01 |
| nijaba | #topic actions from previous meeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:01 | |
| llu-laptop | o/0 | 15:01 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:01 |
| nijaba | #topic jd contact Eric Windisch about nova's trusted-messaging blueprint status | 15:01 |
| nijaba | jd__ any feedback on this? | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "jd contact Eric Windisch about nova's trusted-messaging blueprint status (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:01 | |
| jd__ | yes, I had a conversation with Eric | 15:01 |
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| eglynn_ | it was mentioned at FOSDEM that the blueprint was "demoted" | 15:01 |
| jd__ | I've updated the whiteboard at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/use-new-rpc-messsage with what we discussed | 15:01 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 15:01 |
| * eglynn_ is not sure what that means ... | 15:02 | |
| jd__ | Discussed with Eric 31st January: this is not targeted at Grizzly, but the code is likely to be ready for review around the 15th February, and hopefully will be merged by the end of February. | 15:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:02 |
| nijaba | eglynn_: I meant not targetted for grizzly anymore | 15:02 |
| eglynn_ | OK so demoted == punted to H | 15:02 |
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| eglynn_ | yep, understood, thanks | 15:02 |
| jd__ | eglynn_: yes, nijaba asked that to he HP guy after I told him what I discussed with Eric :) | 15:03 |
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| eglynn_ | jd__: cool, I was behind the curve that that | 15:03 |
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| eglynn_ | (thanks for the update ...) | 15:03 |
| jd__ | so basically, that's wait'n see for us | 15:03 |
| nijaba | so the pb is that we won't have time to use it in G anyway | 15:03 |
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| jd__ | I think so indeed | 15:04 |
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| nijaba | Feature freeze is Feb 19th, when we branch the release | 15:04 |
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| eglynn_ | yep, so do we think that's a major issue for ceilometer's deployability? | 15:04 |
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| jd__ | I don't think so | 15:05 |
| eglynn_ | (given that all the other RPC flows are also not secure) | 15:05 |
| eglynn_ | +1 | 15:05 |
| jd__ | that's not directly our problem, and *we* have some signing so far | 15:05 |
| eglynn_ | true that | 15:05 |
| dhellmann | right, we do sign our messages | 15:05 |
| jd__ | i.e. we're not the worst :) | 15:05 |
| nijaba | eglynn_: no, but it's a bummer | 15:05 |
| *** spn__ is now known as spn | 15:05 | |
| dhellmann | the point was to be consistent, but if it's not in oslo then there's no issue with us not using it | 15:05 |
| sandywalsh | if the nova rpc messaging isn't secure, the CM messaging is the least of our worries (imho) | 15:05 |
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| jd__ | one thing I didnt' write on the whiteboard but I can mention to you | 15:05 |
| eglynn_ | sandywalsh: agreed | 15:06 |
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| nijaba | ok, I think we know where we stand on this. let's move on | 15:06 |
| nijaba | #topic nijaba to specify draft policy on wiki for units | 15:06 |
| nijaba | #info done http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/Units | 15:06 |
| nijaba | I did make a call for comments on the ml. Do you think we are ready to approve them or should we push a vote on the subject to next week? | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to specify draft policy on wiki for units (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:06 | |
| jd__ | RPC signin needs envelope on RPC messaging, and that's not activated by default for G | 15:06 |
| eglynn_ | sandywalsh: although some might see the bar set higher for ceilo given that there may be $$$ involved at the end of the pipeline | 15:06 |
| sandywalsh | eglynn_: I can still spoof all the notifications on the nova side to the same effect | 15:07 |
| eglynn_ | sandywalsh: true that | 15:07 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: I haven't seen any objections. It seems we're ready to vote. | 15:07 |
| nijaba | ok then, let's start the vote | 15:07 |
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| nijaba | #startvote approve http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/Units ? yes, no, abstain | 15:08 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: approve http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/Units ? Valid vote options are yes, no, abstain. | 15:08 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 15:08 |
| nijaba | #vote yes | 15:08 |
| llu-laptop | #vote yes | 15:08 |
| dhellmann | #vote yes | 15:08 |
| sandywalsh | #vote yes | 15:08 |
| jtran | #vote yes | 15:08 |
| spn | #vote yes | 15:08 |
| eglynn_ | #vote yes | 15:08 |
| n0ano | #vote yes | 15:08 |
| jd__ | #vote yes | 15:08 |
| yjiang5_home | #vote abstain | 15:08 |
| nijaba | not thrill on this one... | 15:08 |
| danspraggins | #vote yes | 15:08 |
| sew | #vote yes | 15:09 |
| apmelton | #vote yes | 15:09 |
| nealph | #vote yes | 15:09 |
| nijaba | #endvote | 15:09 |
| openstack | Voted on "approve http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/Units ?" Results are | 15:09 |
| fnaval | #vote yes | 15:09 |
| openstack | yes (13): sew, apmelton, n0ano, jtran, nealph, sandywalsh, jd__, nijaba, llu-laptop, dhellmann, spn, danspraggins, eglynn_ | 15:09 |
| openstack | abstain (1): yjiang5_home | 15:09 |
| nijaba | ok great! | 15:09 |
| yjiang5_home | hehe | 15:09 |
| nijaba | That's it for last week's actions | 15:09 |
| sandywalsh | out of curiousity yjiang5_home, did you have objections to the proposal? | 15:09 |
| dhellmann | we should probably add some form of those rules to our docs | 15:09 |
| sandywalsh | (or just being a trouble maker ;) | 15:10 |
| yjiang5_home | sandywalsh: I just didn't think through this, so no idea yet. | 15:10 |
| sandywalsh | gotcha ... thanks | 15:10 |
| dhellmann | #action dhellman to update documentation based on http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/Units | 15:10 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: to the dev doc: yes. or at least a pointer to the wiki | 15:10 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: thanks | 15:10 |
| nijaba | #topic Preparing Ceilometer for end of incubation review | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Preparing Ceilometer for end of incubation review (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:11 | |
| dhellmann | nijaba: I'll rephrase the rules in terms of what users can expect | 15:11 |
| nealph | dhellmann: at least a crosslink to the current api documentation | 15:11 |
| nijaba | ttx recently informed me that a TC meeting will happen on Tue Feb 12th at 20UTC to discuss if Heat and Ceilometer are ready to graduate out of incubation. See "end of cycle graduation review" on the agenda | 15:11 |
| nijaba | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 15:11 |
| nijaba | It happens that the meeting is scheduled at the same time as the foundation board meeting. We are going to ask Alan to allow MarkMcLoughlin, Monty and I to join the TC meeting, but it that fails, ttx may have to reschedule the discussion. | 15:11 |
| dhellmann | I thought I would be able to attend that meeting, but there's a very good chance I won't. :-( | 15:11 |
| nijaba | We need to prepare answers on: | 15:11 |
| nijaba | a) Why we think we're ready | 15:11 |
| nijaba | b) be ready to explain why, even though discussion with healthnmon and sandywalsh have been deep and convoluted, we still beleive that they have not endengered the founding of ceilometer architecture. | 15:11 |
| eglynn_ | so is this the first TC meeting in a sequence to consider graduation? | 15:11 |
| nijaba | eglynn_: this is what I understood | 15:12 |
| eglynn_ | i.e. fact-finding, followed by a decision point at a subsequent meeting | 15:12 |
| sandywalsh | convoluted? :) | 15:12 |
| nijaba | statements in that directions on the wiki would be welcome, specially from core members, sandywalsh and healthnmon team. | 15:12 |
| nijaba | Comments? | 15:12 |
| jd__ | (I'll attend the meeting too) | 15:13 |
| eglynn_ | IMO the main thing we need to prepared to defend is the stability of the core architecture | 15:13 |
| nijaba | eglynn_: agreed | 15:13 |
| eglynn_ | (in particular the proposed changes around the nove interaction model) | 15:13 |
| sandywalsh | assuming we can store the raw event data (somehow) ... I don't think there's any glaring objections from us | 15:13 |
| nijaba | I need some volunteers to start contributing to the wiki page to prepare this on a wiki page: | 15:13 |
| nijaba | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/Graduation | 15:13 |
| nijaba | Raise your hand if you volunteer help on this | 15:13 |
| eglynn_ | o/ | 15:13 |
| jd__ | o/ | 15:13 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 15:14 |
| spn | o/ | 15:14 |
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| nijaba | This is great, thanks a lot for your help | 15:14 |
| eglynn_ | IMO we need to provide comfort that ... | 15:15 |
| eglynn_ | (a) we won't run off and do a keystone-lite rewrite during our first cycle as a core project | 15:15 |
| eglynn_ | and: | 15:15 |
| nijaba | #action eglynn_, jd__, sandywalsh, spn, nijaba to help on http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/Graduation | 15:15 |
| eglynn_ | (b) the architecture doesn't unduely constrain future usecases | 15:15 |
| spn | will the number of bugs be one of the deciding factor? | 15:15 |
| eglynn_ | spn: it shouldn't IMO | 15:15 |
| jd__ | spn: that wouldn't be a smart metric | 15:16 |
| llu-laptop | eglynn_: what do you mean by saying "keystone-lite rewrite"? | 15:16 |
| eglynn_ | spn: (shows activity, usage ...) | 15:16 |
| * dhellmann has local distractions | 15:16 | |
| sandywalsh | eglynn_: we're commiting a lot of resources to CM, so there's very low risk we'll go back to stacktach. We can talk to ttx, et al about that if need be. | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 15:16 |
| yjiang5_home | nijaba: what's the criterial of ready for graduation? Anyone checked the meeting for Quantum or Cinder? | 15:16 |
| jd__ | dhellmann: shoot! :) | 15:16 |
| yjiang5_home | sandywalsh: that's great. | 15:16 |
| nijaba | yjiang5_home: confidence of the tc members. thatś it | 15:16 |
| eglynn_ | llu-laptop: during the essex cycle IIRC, keystone was rewritten and presented as fail accompli | 15:16 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: include me in that action | 15:16 |
| sandywalsh | eglynn_: correct | 15:16 |
| eglynn_ | llu-laptop: (the original keystone that is, not the one we all know and love...) | 15:17 |
| nijaba | #action eglynn_, jd__, sandywalsh, spn, nijaba, dhellmann to help on http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/Graduation | 15:17 |
| eglynn_ | s/fail accompli/fait accompli/ | 15:17 |
| * eglynn_ had a Freudian slip ... | 15:17 | |
| nijaba | eglynn_: a very nice one ;) | 15:17 |
| jd__ | eglynn_: I was wondering what you meant, haha! | 15:17 |
| nijaba | ok, so everyone clear on this? | 15:18 |
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| nijaba | ok, let's move on | 15:19 |
| nijaba | #topic Updating our "requests" dependency to 1.0 (dhellmann, zul, yolanda) | 15:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Updating our "requests" dependency to 1.0 (dhellmann, zul, yolanda) (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:19 | |
| yjiang5_home | anything we need achieve before the review other than the wiki? | 15:19 |
| zul | hi | 15:19 |
| flaper87 | nijaba: should'nt it be 1.1 ? | 15:19 |
| eglynn_ | so there was some work on going to requests 1.1 for glance | 15:19 |
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| flaper87 | this is the required version for glancelcient | 15:19 |
| nijaba | yjiang5_home: write to your favorite tc member, telling him to vote yes ;) | 15:19 |
| eglynn_ | (in order to address an issue with encoding IIRC) | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | the clients use different versions at this point | 15:20 |
| yjiang5_home | nijaba: :) | 15:20 |
| eglynn_ | but the glance change was slatted by everything else still being 1.0 | 15:20 |
| eglynn_ | s/slatted/stalled/ | 15:20 |
| flaper87 | eglynn_: encoding + other improvements | 15:20 |
| dhellmann | eglynn_: actually <1.0, I thought | 15:20 |
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| eglynn_ | flaper87: hey, thanks for the background info! | 15:20 |
| flaper87 | eglynn_: :) | 15:21 |
| eglynn_ | flaper87: are all the other clients on 1.0 or <1.0? | 15:21 |
| sandywalsh | eglynn_: it's a mix. | 15:21 |
| flaper87 | eglynn_: mixed | 15:21 |
| eglynn_ | k | 15:21 |
| zul | yes its either using 1.0 or <1.0 | 15:21 |
| flaper87 | but none of them on 1.1 | 15:21 |
| sandywalsh | foo.json vs. foo.json() | 15:21 |
| eglynn_ | usual mess so, we need to cor-ord these deps better | 15:21 |
| * eglynn_ states the obvious again ... | 15:22 | |
| dhellmann | I perhaps got the version in the agenda item wrong | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | zul: do we want 1.1? | 15:22 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: if we don't use 1.1 we won't be able to migrate glanceclient | 15:22 |
| dhellmann | in any case, the topic to discuss was whether someone could volunteer to help with updating our client, and ceilometer, to work with the desired version | 15:22 |
| eglynn_ | wouldn't that cuase version mismatch clash is say devstack if novaclient etc. installed first? | 15:22 |
| zul | dhellmann: i think 1.1 | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | cool | 15:23 |
| * flaper87 volunteers | 15:23 | |
| dhellmann | so, as with webob, I think what will have to happen is first a rollout of a rule that says >=0.8 (the minimum version being used now) -- to all projects | 15:23 |
| eglynn_ | flaper87: thanks! | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | that would have to include fixing them to work with 0.8 and 1.1 | 15:23 |
| dhellmann | then, when all projects work like that, we can roll out >=1.1 | 15:24 |
| eglynn_ | dhellmann: a-ha, yep relaxing the dep to >= first is the way to go | 15:24 |
| * sandywalsh can help once he gets the HACKING branch finished :/ | 15:24 | |
| jd__ | dhellmann: sounds like a good plan | 15:24 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: makes sense | 15:24 |
| dhellmann | but if it isn't done in 2 steps, then there's no way to get the change past the smokestack gates | 15:24 |
| eglynn_ | flaper87: you've confirmed that the distros are all covered packaging-wise for 1.1, right? | 15:25 |
| dhellmann | that >=0.8 change will have to know about the json-as-a-property vs. json-as-a-method issue inside the requests library | 15:25 |
| flaper87 | eglynn_: yeap, non of them use special features but simple requests calls. Some refactor has to be done for those calls but nothing big, AFAIR | 15:25 |
| flaper87 | s/non/none | 15:26 |
| dhellmann | is there anything else to say about this? | 15:26 |
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| flaper87 | nope | 15:26 |
| eglynn_ | sounds covered to me | 15:27 |
| * sandywalsh does the blackjack dealers hand wipe | 15:27 | |
| dhellmann | what's up next, nijaba? | 15:27 |
| nijaba | #topic Coordinating speaker submissions for Summit (conference part) | 15:27 |
| nijaba | I have proposed to Doug to redo a duet presenting ceilometer project and architecture. | 15:27 |
| nijaba | I also would encourage anyone with a real life deployement of ceilometer to propose a talk about how they did it | 15:27 |
| nijaba | Note that the dealine for submitting talks is Feb 15th: | 15:27 |
| nijaba | #link http://t.co/PgvneZBO | 15:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Coordinating speaker submissions for Summit (conference part) (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:27 | |
| nijaba | Comments? | 15:27 |
| spn | Design topics has more time I guess | 15:28 |
| llu-laptop | nijaba: seems I can't access that URL | 15:28 |
| sandywalsh | I think the place for our coordination is on the design topics ... and we'll update the bps as needed for that | 15:28 |
| nijaba | #link http://www.openstack.org/summit/portland-2013/call-for-speakers/ | 15:28 |
| nijaba | llu-laptop: I hope the full url is accessible for you | 15:29 |
| sandywalsh | we have some community talks proposed but mostly about metrics/sla's/etc in general and not CM specific | 15:29 |
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| sandywalsh | (lessons learned with stacktach) | 15:29 |
| eglynn_ | so we'll have our own design summit track, right? | 15:29 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: eglynn_: wait for next topic :) | 15:29 |
| eglynn_ | k | 15:29 |
| sandywalsh | whoops, sorry :) haha | 15:29 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: ready to redo the duet? | 15:30 |
| * sandywalsh - premature articulation | 15:30 | |
| dhellmann | nijaba: sure! | 15:30 |
| nijaba | \o/ | 15:30 |
| nijaba | #topic Preparing blueprints for discussion in our dev room | 15:30 |
| nijaba | RAX has some talks planned around our metrics efforts with StackTach and moving that into CM. | 15:30 |
| nijaba | It looks like we will have our own room for meeting and need to start planning how much time we will need | 15:30 |
| nijaba | I propose that we submit discussion topics as blueprints within the next few weeks so that we can get a good idea of how mich time will be needed on the basis of 1h per topic. | 15:30 |
| nijaba | Comment? | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Preparing blueprints for discussion in our dev room (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:30 | |
| dhellmann | +1 to blueprints | 15:31 |
| sandywalsh | #action RAX will comment on bps for summit | 15:31 |
| * nijaba check if we can propose bp for the H summit | 15:31 | |
| llu-laptop | do we need some special prefix to the bp title for that purpose? | 15:31 |
| * eglynn_ thinking the same, just use a naming convention for the BPs? | 15:32 | |
| dhellmann | llu-laptop: I don't think so. We'll eventually use the blueprints for the actual work, right? | 15:32 |
| spn | bp's involving new ideas to be discussed in #openstack-metering? | 15:32 |
| nijaba | I will try to see with ttx if we can that defined as a sprint so that we can propose the bp for the H sprint | 15:32 |
| dhellmann | unless you want to use "havana-" as the prefix? | 15:32 |
| jd__ | it's better to create bp and set serie to havana and status to 'discussion' or something like that I think | 15:33 |
| nijaba | #action nijaba to write an email explaining how to propose a topic for the H summit | 15:33 |
| sandywalsh | I don't think the naming really makes any difference does it? You just set the milestone to be H? | 15:33 |
| sandywalsh | jd__: +1 | 15:33 |
| dhellmann | jd__: sounds good | 15:33 |
| sandywalsh | (series, not milestone) | 15:33 |
| eglynn_ | so the BPs are really placeholders for initial discusion etc.? | 15:33 |
| nijaba | please hold on your bp until I check with ttx the preffered methoid, I'll send an email then | 15:33 |
| eglynn_ | (.e. the actual design summit proposal is via separate topic mgmt system like before?) | 15:34 |
| jd__ | eglynn_: yes | 15:34 |
| eglynn_ | cool | 15:34 |
| jd__ | nijaba: ack | 15:34 |
| * jd__ sits on its bag of bp | 15:34 | |
| nijaba | eglynn_: summit conference talks is what is separate, yes | 15:34 |
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| dhellmann | nijaba: I think he means the official dev session proposal system used by the organizers | 15:35 |
| eglynn_ | nijaba: well, I'm thinking of the design summit proposals ... that wasn't via launchpad BPs last time round, or? | 15:35 |
| spn | can we propose a bp and also can that be a part of summit topics for discussion? | 15:35 |
| eglynn_ | dhellmann: yep, I was ... | 15:35 |
| dhellmann | eglynn_: this is something nijaba is asking *our group* to do | 15:35 |
| nijaba | that was up to the projects IIRC | 15:35 |
| eglynn_ | a-ha, I see | 15:36 |
| nijaba | then the projects would report in a scheduling tool, separately | 15:36 |
| dhellmann | i.e., let's get some concrete blueprints put together to talk about, instead of more abstract topics | 15:36 |
| eglynn_ | thanks for the clarification | 15:36 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: +1 | 15:36 |
| jd__ | sounds great | 15:36 |
| sandywalsh | I think the foundation allocates slots based on the standing of the project | 15:36 |
| jd__ | standing? | 15:36 |
| sandywalsh | (larger projects = more slots) | 15:36 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: I checked, and we should give an estimate of the time we need | 15:36 |
| sandywalsh | dhellmann: +1 | 15:37 |
| jd__ | will we have to wear tuxedos? | 15:37 |
| sandywalsh | nijaba: cool, thanks | 15:37 |
| * dhellmann will if jd__ will | 15:37 | |
| nijaba | jd__: of course. as well as ice skates | 15:37 |
| sandywalsh | pants? | 15:37 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: haha | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | YES EVERYONE HAS TO WEAR PANTS | 15:37 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: never!!! | 15:37 |
| jd__ | lol | 15:37 |
| dhellmann | :-) | 15:37 |
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| nijaba | everyone wears kilts | 15:38 |
| * dhellmann shakes head | 15:38 | |
| nijaba | I tink we are done on this very important topic, right? | 15:38 |
| jd__ | for now I guess | 15:38 |
| * eglynn_ was impressed by the Debian kilts at FOSDEM | 15:38 | |
| nijaba | #topic Open discussion | 15:39 |
| eglynn_ | (might have been a tad cold tho' ...) | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)" | 15:39 | |
| sandywalsh | does ceilometer have a logo? | 15:39 |
| eglynn_ | not that I know of | 15:39 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: nope... no designers floating around... | 15:39 |
| sandywalsh | would be nice to define one before the summit, if not. | 15:39 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: do we have a deadline for submitting g3 changes? | 15:39 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: feature freeze is Feb 19th | 15:39 |
| dhellmann | sandywalsh: +1 | 15:39 |
| eglynn_ | sandywalsh: +1 | 15:39 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: ok | 15:39 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: when we branch the release | 15:39 |
| sandywalsh | let's talk to our graphically minded friends, shall we? | 15:40 |
| jd__ | have other projects a logo ?! | 15:40 |
| dhellmann | nijaba: I think what I have to do isn't so much a feature as cleanup | 15:40 |
| eglynn_ | nijaba: so does the branching occur immediately once the g3 deadline passes? | 15:40 |
| sandywalsh | jd__: some, but it makes us look grown up :) | 15:40 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: I don have any freinds (graphically minded) | 15:40 |
| eglynn_ | nijaba: (or later, say when RC1 is cut) | 15:40 |
| nijaba | eglynn_: actually 2 days before the 21st | 15:41 |
| eglynn_ | nijaba: so trunk is then theoretically open for H-oriented patches? | 15:41 |
| * sandywalsh will ask around RAX for design services | 15:41 | |
| nijaba | eglynn_: this is what I understood, yes, but this will be my first time | 15:41 |
| jd__ | nijaba: are we ok towards our g3 goals btw? | 15:41 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: thanks | 15:41 |
| nijaba | jd__: almost. I sent a mail to tedy about is not started bp. | 15:42 |
| yjiang5_home | jd__: I have two patches pending for g3. | 15:42 |
| jd__ | nijaba: okay | 15:42 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: has one too | 15:42 |
| nijaba | on another topic, PTL elections are coming up at the end of the month | 15:43 |
| * eglynn_ has qpid testing to do ... | 15:43 | |
| dhellmann | nijaba: the notification listening code? I've started writing that up and discussing it with the oslo devs | 15:43 |
| nijaba | dhellmann: perfect | 15:43 |
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| jd__ | dhellmann: great | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Ceilometer/blueprints/move-listener-framework-oslo | 15:43 |
| yjiang5_home | nijaba: should all BPs target grizily in g3? | 15:43 |
| dhellmann | the names are subject to change | 15:43 |
| nijaba | So that you know, I am considering not to present myself as PTL as I do not think it goes well with being a board member | 15:44 |
| nijaba | yjiang5_home: not sure I understood your question | 15:44 |
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| yjiang5_home | nijaba: sorry. I mean "should all BPs target grizily be submiited/merged in g3 milestone? | 15:45 |
| nijaba | yjiang5_home: yep, or they will be punted to h | 15:45 |
| nijaba | yjiang5_home: however, you can submit buggy code and fix it during the rc ;) | 15:45 |
| sandywalsh | yep, the bp list going into g3 should pretty well be the final list | 15:45 |
| yjiang5_home | nijaba: got it, thanks. | 15:46 |
| sandywalsh | nijaba: heh | 15:46 |
| nijaba | sandywalsh: yes, I know this is bad, but don we all do it... | 15:46 |
| sandywalsh | nijaba: I'm very guilty, don't worry | 15:46 |
| nijaba | hehe | 15:46 |
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| nijaba | so, anyone ready to play "who wants to be a PTL?" at the end of the month? | 15:48 |
| eglynn_ | nijaba: it would be a good sign of a healthy project for the election to be contested, so I'd encourage folks to think about running ... | 15:48 |
| nijaba | eglynn_: +1 | 15:49 |
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| * eglynn_ was disappointed that so few PTL positions were contested in the last cycle ... | 15:49 | |
| sandywalsh | nijaba: would love to, but need to work on getting core first ;) | 15:49 |
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| nijaba | sandywalsh: ah, well... yes | 15:49 |
| nealph | ninjaba: PTL = project team lead? | 15:49 |
| * jd__ will run | 15:49 | |
| dhellmann | nijaba: do we have a list of qualified candidates? | 15:49 |
| nijaba | nealph: yes | 15:49 |
| dhellmann | jd__: +1 | 15:49 |
| * eglynn_ also probably | 15:50 | |
| nijaba | dhellmann: any core members at this time | 15:50 |
| sandywalsh | jd__: +1 | 15:50 |
| jd__ | eglynn_: cool :) | 15:50 |
| * sandywalsh wants to see Feats of Strength! | 15:51 | |
| yjiang5_home | I'd suggest vote among dhellmann jd__ eglynn_ , all of them are good candidate IMO. :-) | 15:51 |
| jd__ | by the way did we mention the amazing talk we did last Sunday? | 15:51 |
| nijaba | anyway, this was just to give you guys some time to think about it. ttx will be starting the election process at the end of the month, providing all the details | 15:51 |
| nijaba | jd__: we did NOT!!! | 15:51 |
| eglynn_ | cool, thanks for the early heads-up | 15:51 |
| nijaba | it was a great trio!!! | 15:51 |
| jd__ | so we did an amazing talk with eglynn_ and nijaba at FOSDEM https://fosdem.org/2013/schedule/event/openstack_ceilometer/ | 15:51 |
| jd__ | (slides at the bottom) | 15:52 |
| nijaba | unfortunately, as it was the last talk of the day, it was NOT recorded | 15:52 |
| llu-laptop | waiting for the video | 15:52 |
| * dhellmann :-( | 15:52 | |
| llu-laptop | oops :-( | 15:52 |
| * flaper87 was there, great talk guys, honestly | 15:52 | |
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| jd__ | thanks flaper87 | 15:53 |
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| jd__ | after SlapOS, it was easy anyway :p | 15:53 |
| nijaba | anything else?> | 15:53 |
| llu-laptop | I'll be on vacation from Feb 9th to Feb 15th for Chiese holidays, so I won't be able to attend next weekly meeting. | 15:53 |
| jd__ | llu-laptop: enjoy! | 15:54 |
| nijaba | llu-laptop: please mention this on the meeting page | 15:54 |
| * eglynn_ has jury duty next week, will be partially off-grid ... | 15:54 | |
| nijaba | llu-laptop: enjoy +1 | 15:54 |
| sandywalsh | eglynn_: Ms White in the Library with the Candlestick | 15:54 |
| spn | the fosdem slides (http://goo.gl/JGidx) were great | 15:55 |
| eglynn_ | LOL :) | 15:55 |
| nijaba | ok. Great meeting, as usual! | 15:55 |
| jd__ | sandywalsh: :)) | 15:55 |
| nijaba | See you next week on Wed at 21UTC | 15:55 |
| nijaba | #endmeeting | 15:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 15:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 7 15:55:34 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:55 |
| dhellmann | thanks, everyone! | 15:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-02-07-15.00.html | 15:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-02-07-15.00.txt | 15:55 |
| nijaba | #cluedo | 15:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-02-07-15.00.log.html | 15:55 |
| sandywalsh | thanks all! | 15:55 |
| eglynn_ | thanks folks! | 15:55 |
| spn | thanks ;-) | 15:55 |
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| sdague | who's here for tempest meeting? | 17:03 |
| mtreinish | me | 17:03 |
| mlavalle | me | 17:04 |
| afrittoli | me | 17:04 |
| Nithya | me | 17:04 |
| afazekas | me | 17:04 |
| * afazekas sick and slow today | 17:04 | |
| sdague | #startmeeting openstack-qa | 17:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 7 17:04:47 2013 UTC. The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-qa)" | 17:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_qa' | 17:04 |
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| sdague | sweet, off we go | 17:04 |
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| sdague | ok lets start with reviews | 17:05 |
| sdague | #topic outstanding reviews | 17:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "outstanding reviews (Meeting topic: openstack-qa)" | 17:05 | |
| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20746/ | 17:05 |
| sdague | does anyone have particular reviews they are struggling with? | 17:05 |
| sdague | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20746/ | 17:06 |
| sdague | afazekas: ok, where do we stand on that? | 17:06 |
| afazekas | Now we are skipping testing without a technical reason | 17:06 |
| afazekas | "SKIP: Need multiple users for this test." "SKIP: FlavorExtraData extension not enabled." appears in the log message before this patch | 17:07 |
| sdague | ok, so the issue being that our new skip decorator doesn't tell us why? | 17:07 |
| afazekas | The generic_setup_package evaluated after the skip decision made | 17:08 |
| sdague | ok | 17:08 |
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| afazekas | why it is not fixed as soon as possible ? | 17:09 |
| sdague | ok, lets get mordred and lifeless on that review to see if there is a testrepository fix to make this right | 17:09 |
| sdague | we'll also need jaypipes to drop his -2 | 17:10 |
| afazekas | we have other solutions probably, but it can work now | 17:10 |
| mordred | sdague: aroo? | 17:10 |
| sdague | mordred: if you could have a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20746/ | 17:10 |
| mordred | (looking) | 17:10 |
| sdague | jay wanted your input | 17:10 |
| davidkranz | I seem to be confused by https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20681/ and hope another core reviewer can approve it or respond. | 17:11 |
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| mordred | I will review that | 17:11 |
| sdague | davidkranz: I'll need to dive into that a bit deeper, haven't really looked at that one yet | 17:11 |
| sdague | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20681/ | 17:11 |
| Nithya | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20901/, Where can we place the tests that are scenario based that are not a part of normal smoke / gating tests in tempest? I had submitted a blueprint for adding Nova VM lifecycle tests in tempests (modified version of tests/compute/servers/test_server_basic_ops.py). Reviewers have given a comment not to add it as a part of normal gating tests. | 17:12 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Thx | 17:12 |
| sdague | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20901/ | 17:12 |
| davidkranz | Nithya: I think we need an attribute for non-gating tests. | 17:12 |
| sdague | Nithya: those should live in another directory, like the stress tests | 17:12 |
| Nithya | I will do the changes and submit a patch. Thank you | 17:12 |
| afazekas | Nithya: we should create new folder for them | 17:13 |
| sdague | I think that we need to have a Havana design session on exactly how to handle tests and attributes, as lifeless has added some attr support to testrepository now | 17:13 |
| davidkranz | sdague: ++, but we need some job to run these tests. Nightly? | 17:13 |
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| sdague | davidkranz: I'm not convinced the lifecycle tests are something we want to run | 17:14 |
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| sdague | they are way too stateful | 17:14 |
| ravikumar_hp | sdague: whoever wants to run , can run | 17:14 |
| sdague | I'm ok with them being available, but I think in a real environment they are going to break a lot | 17:14 |
| davidkranz | sdague: If we don't want to run them then why are they in tempest? | 17:14 |
| ravikumar_hp | anyway it is not gated tests , | 17:15 |
| sdague | davidkranz: we have stress/ | 17:15 |
| sdague | those we don't run all the time | 17:15 |
| sdague | or in any automated way | 17:15 |
| afazekas | davidkranz: for home usage | 17:15 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Because we cant right now. But that was the goal. | 17:15 |
| afrittoli | in general I think it would be good to have a repo for non-gating tests | 17:15 |
| mordred | yes. I would like to eventually run stress tests in some sort of gating manner | 17:15 |
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| afrittoli | for instance tests which are targeting multinode environments - e.g. scheduler tests | 17:16 |
| afazekas | \/nongation folder for these tests without any sub folder | 17:16 |
| afrittoli | or race condition tests | 17:16 |
| mordred | my wquestion would be what are the characteristics of the non-gating tests you are talking about that would make them non-gating | 17:16 |
| sdague | mordred: too many false negatives | 17:16 |
| mordred | multinode is something I intend to get working in the gate | 17:16 |
| davidkranz | IMO, nongating == "slow of flaky" | 17:16 |
| davidkranz | ^^^ or | 17:16 |
| sdague | yeh, basically | 17:16 |
| mordred | ok. I'm TOTALLY fine with "slow or flaky" as the definition | 17:17 |
| sdague | we had to do a lot of work to make current tempest extremely deterministic | 17:17 |
| afazekas | I would like to create tests which has higher chance to cause flaky issues, with high performance, but still in python | 17:17 |
| sdague | so things which we think aren't deterministic, we need to keep out of the gate | 17:17 |
| mordred | ++ | 17:17 |
| afrittoli | actually running those tests in a non-gating job would highlight whether those tests are slow and/or flacky] | 17:17 |
| sdague | afazekas: yes, agreed | 17:17 |
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| sdague | afrittoli: fair | 17:18 |
| davidkranz | sdague: We need to have a way to "incubate tests" in non-gating to be moved to gating when stable. | 17:18 |
| afrittoli | ++ | 17:18 |
| Nithya | ++ | 17:18 |
| sdague | however, I'm going to table the philosophy for Havana summit if we could | 17:18 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Sure. | 17:18 |
| sdague | I think we need a session on this, but there is a lot to discuss, especially details wise, so lets do it there :) | 17:18 |
| afazekas | I think they can live in the same git repository anyway | 17:18 |
| sdague | afazekas: yes, agreed | 17:18 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 17:19 |
| sdague | ok, so I wanted to chat about this - https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tempest+branch:master+topic:bp/speed-up-tempest,n,z | 17:19 |
| sdague | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tempest+branch:master+topic:bp/speed-up-tempest,n,z | 17:19 |
| sdague | afazekas brings up the good point that we should make sure we don't loose the smoke functionality as that comes in before testr is ready | 17:20 |
| sdague | even though we aren't running it | 17:20 |
| sdague | so I'm going to propose to the list (as soon as I get time) that chris redo those as a series, and wrap the decorator so that it does the right thing for nose and testr | 17:20 |
| sdague | so it's all linked together | 17:20 |
| sdague | afazekas that sound reasonable to you? | 17:21 |
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| afazekas | ok | 17:21 |
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| sdague | ok cool | 17:22 |
| sdague | afazekas: so if you can rebase this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20091/ - that can go in | 17:22 |
| sdague | looks like jenkins just failed to merge it | 17:22 |
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| sdague | otherwise people should get Jenkins to pass, I'm not looking at any Jenkins fails. :) | 17:23 |
| sdague | and I think those are most of the outstanding reviews | 17:23 |
| afazekas | sdague: I need to violate the T302 rule, since otherwise I got circular issue | 17:23 |
| sdague | afazekas: do you have an example of where that happened? | 17:23 |
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| afazekas | I'll trace it , but it is because of the __init__ and clients cross references. (some part was function originally in another location, but I had to move them on a review) | 17:25 |
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| afazekas | the big T302 patch merges the clisnts.py to the __init__ | 17:25 |
| sdague | ok, lets figure that one out, would be good to get to the bottom | 17:25 |
| sdague | ok, anything else on reviews? | 17:26 |
| sdague | going once... | 17:26 |
| sdague | going twice... | 17:26 |
| donaldngo_hp | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20681/ | 17:26 |
| donaldngo_hp | I'd like to talk about that review | 17:26 |
| sdague | ok, davidkranz did bring it up before, but go for it | 17:27 |
| donaldngo_hp | Currently the Keystone API does not return a token for /v3/token | 17:27 |
| donaldngo_hp | so currently the submitted review is to create a new v3restclient | 17:27 |
| ravikumar_hp | donald_hp: right | 17:28 |
| ravikumar_hp | no changes for token in v3 | 17:28 |
| ravikumar_hp | it is same as v2 | 17:28 |
| donaldngo_hp | is /v3/token going to be implemented? | 17:28 |
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| ravikumar_hp | since no tests exist for token, we are trying to submit tests . we need to check version . but nothing changed for V3 | 17:29 |
| sdague | ravikumar_hp: is devstack bringing up v3 in the gate? (I thought I saw dean doing something with that recently) | 17:29 |
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| sdague | donaldngo_hp: ok, will take some time to look at it | 17:30 |
| donaldngo_hp | so for that review all tests depending on the /v3/ keystone api will need to use the new restclient api | 17:30 |
| ravikumar_hp | sdague: not sure | 17:30 |
| donaldngo_hp | sorry not api but implementation like /v3/domain | 17:30 |
| sdague | also, for people asking for reviews... if you could spend some time reviewing other patches in the queue, those of us with +2 would have more to go on | 17:30 |
| sdague | ok, lets move on from reviews | 17:31 |
| sdague | #topic coverage and additional tests | 17:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "coverage and additional tests (Meeting topic: openstack-qa)" | 17:31 | |
| sdague | mtreinish, how about you talk about the coverage analysis and some of the additional test lists | 17:31 |
| mtreinish | sdague: ok | 17:31 |
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| mtreinish | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/MissingTempestTests | 17:32 |
| mtreinish | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/coverage-analysis | 17:32 |
| mtreinish | so using the results from the periodic coverage runs I've done some analysis of gaps in the tempest tests | 17:32 |
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| mtreinish | then compiled a list of proposed tests to fill the gaps | 17:33 |
| mtreinish | the list is pretty big so far, but it is still incomplete | 17:33 |
| mtreinish | timello, got the first patch merged for this effort | 17:33 |
| mtreinish | so if people want to tackle one just mark your name next to a test name on the list | 17:34 |
| sdague | awesome | 17:34 |
| donaldngo_hp | nice | 17:34 |
| donaldngo_hp | what does "test_multiple_create" do? | 17:34 |
| sdague | server create allows you to create more than one guest at a time | 17:35 |
| mtreinish | donaldngo_hp: multiple create is an extension that does multiple server creates in one action | 17:35 |
| afrittoli | just to understand, this is collecting coverage from the API servers, but not from compute yet? I've seen a blueprint on nova side to enable a backport in compute for coverage report... is this in place and used already? | 17:35 |
| mtreinish | afrittoli: yeah this just based on the api server. | 17:36 |
| afrittoli | for instance coverage for the virt driver is zero, so I assume that's not collected | 17:36 |
| afrittoli | mtreinish: ok thanks | 17:36 |
| mtreinish | the coverage extension supports using backdoor ports for other services but its not turned on in the periodic run yet | 17:36 |
| donaldngo_hp | are we continuing to accept negative tests? | 17:37 |
| donaldngo_hp | most of the needed tempest tests on the etherpad are for negative tests | 17:37 |
| sdague | donaldngo_hp: yes, negative testing is important | 17:37 |
| mtreinish | donaldngo_hp: that is where the biggest gaps were | 17:37 |
| ravikumar_hp | sdague: some time ago hold was put for negative tests | 17:37 |
| sdague | we exposed some interesting nova bugs because of them | 17:37 |
| donaldngo_hp | in past we put a hold on negative tests | 17:38 |
| donaldngo_hp | and there was talk about fuzz testing | 17:38 |
| mtreinish | afrittoli: http://wiki.openstack.org/Nova/CoverageExtension gives some info on setting up the coverage extension | 17:38 |
| ravikumar_hp | we have added lot of negative tests | 17:38 |
| sdague | at this point no one's stepped up to do fuzz testing, so I'm all for negative tests | 17:38 |
| sdague | especially as they tend to be pretty cheap on execution | 17:38 |
| ravikumar_hp | sdague: ok | 17:39 |
| afazekas | negative test are fast if we do not need a booted machine.. | 17:39 |
| sdague | #topic open discussion | 17:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: openstack-qa)" | 17:40 | |
| sdague | ok, other topics of note, or anything else people want to chat about? | 17:40 |
| mtreinish | I'd like to bring up the glance client discussion | 17:41 |
| afazekas | python -c "import this" | 17:41 |
| afazekas | "Flat is better than nested." | 17:41 |
| sdague | #topic glance client | 17:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "glance client (Meeting topic: openstack-qa)" | 17:41 | |
| afazekas | our code structure os more like java style than python now | 17:41 |
| mtreinish | so there is a ML started on this at: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-qa/2013-February/000199.html | 17:41 |
| mtreinish | the big open question is whether using the http lib from python-glanceclient is different enough for writing a tempest glance client | 17:42 |
| mtreinish | or is it too similar to testing using python-glanceclient (like we do currently) | 17:42 |
| sdague | what does http lib give us? | 17:42 |
| sdague | is that the chunking implementation? | 17:42 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Back. The hold on negative tests was for the sort that were written the same as positive tests. | 17:43 |
| mtreinish | sdague: that is in it. which is the main motivation for wanting to use it | 17:43 |
| sdague | if we can just take the chunking implementation, I'm ok with that | 17:43 |
| mtreinish | sdague: https://github.com/openstack/python-glanceclient/blob/master/glanceclient/common/http.py | 17:43 |
| afazekas | mtreinish:Do you get the merged response and the staus code ? | 17:43 |
| davidkranz | sdague: THe idea was to have negative tests be expressed more concisely and declaritively. | 17:43 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Like in fuzz testing. | 17:44 |
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| sdague | davidkranz: ok, so that's probably a design summit session as well | 17:44 |
| sdague | the reality is, no one stepped up to do fuzz testing in grizzly | 17:44 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: I don't think so, we'd have to wrap around the response to convert it | 17:44 |
| davidkranz | sdague: daryl said they had something almost ready to submit. | 17:44 |
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| sdague | so I'd say lets move forward with actually adding tests for release | 17:45 |
| davidkranz | sdague: We should ping him about that. | 17:45 |
| ravikumar_hp | sdague: i have a question on test submission for incubated projects like load balancer as service or database as service | 17:45 |
| afazekas | Do we want to test is the chunked encoding well formatted or just accepted by the lib, and working for some reason ? | 17:45 |
| ravikumar_hp | can we submit ? or wait until those become core projects? | 17:45 |
| sdague | ravikumar_hp: those at least need to end up in a seperate directory | 17:46 |
| ravikumar_hp | sdague: that sounds good | 17:46 |
| sdague | afazekas: that's a good question | 17:46 |
| afrittoli | do we have a way to maintain test suites? | 17:46 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: it was more for functional testing of the glance api. I wasn't planning on verifying the chunk encoding formatting. | 17:46 |
| sdague | mtreinish: is there another upstream python lib that does the chuncking? | 17:46 |
| sdague | afrittoli: I'm not sure I understand the question | 17:47 |
| afazekas | if the answer is no, we do not need to reinvent the wheel. | 17:47 |
| sdague | afazekas: I think we're mostly concerned with API testing at this point | 17:47 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah httplib works fine with chunking. (That's what the glanceclient lib uses) | 17:47 |
| sdague | so lets solve the first issue that we don't test the glance api at all | 17:47 |
| sdague | because we always use python-glanceclient | 17:48 |
| donaldngo_hp | afrittoli: attributes are a way to maintain test suites | 17:48 |
| sdague | then if we decide later we don't want to trust the chunking implementation, we can tackle that | 17:48 |
| afrittoli | attributes are going away with testtools | 17:48 |
| mtreinish | sdague: ok, sounds reasonable | 17:49 |
| sdague | afrittoli: they will still be there, but different | 17:49 |
| afrittoli | sdague: ok that's great | 17:49 |
| afazekas | testtools: not fully, They implemented something.. | 17:49 |
| afazekas | afrittoli: not fully, They implemented something.. | 17:49 |
| sdague | a big part of it is lifeless wants to see the use cases a little more to enhance the implementation | 17:49 |
| sdague | that will also be a portland conversation | 17:50 |
| sdague | it's also something we could start to hash out on the mailing list | 17:50 |
| afrittoli | I thinkit would be good to have a list of tests (or folders) which are part of gating | 17:50 |
| sdague | afrittoli: right, and right now that's tempest/tempest | 17:50 |
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| sdague | as of last week we are gating on the full set | 17:51 |
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| afazekas | afrittoli: just grep any jenkins log | 17:51 |
| sdague | ok, so as cyeoh, ivan, and lifeless are on the other side of the planet, and they are doing a lot of this, lets take this to the mailing list, as that's the right place to hash it out | 17:52 |
| sdague | this meeting is in the middle of the night for all of them | 17:52 |
| sdague | ok, mtreinish you have enough to move forward on glanceclient? | 17:52 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah I should | 17:52 |
| sdague | cool | 17:52 |
| sdague | #topic open discussion | 17:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: openstack-qa)" | 17:52 | |
| sdague | ok, anything else from folks? | 17:52 |
| afrittoli | about multinode tests | 17:53 |
| afazekas | ? | 17:53 |
| afrittoli | do we have plans to split tests on multiple nodes, or to run them against a multinode environment | 17:53 |
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| Shree-HPCS | ++ multinode gating test | 17:54 |
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| afrittoli | that could be a way of speeding-up on one side | 17:54 |
| afazekas | We are using CPU time even before the tempest stating | 17:54 |
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| afrittoli | and would allow us to run tests which make sense only on multinode environments | 17:55 |
| sdague | I think on multinode someone just needs to start working on the approach with the CI team | 17:55 |
| afazekas | One tempest instance can load a big environment, if it could run on multithread | 17:55 |
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| sdague | afrittoli: I encourage folks to work on that who are interested | 17:55 |
| sdague | I think getting us to full gate in grizzly was a huge step forward | 17:56 |
| sdague | and that would be another great step forward | 17:56 |
| sdague | ok, we're about at the end of our time | 17:56 |
| sdague | anything else from folks? | 17:56 |
| afrittoli | sdague: yes going full gate was a great step forward indeed | 17:56 |
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| afazekas | python way of code structuring | 17:57 |
| afrittoli | last question about pep8, there are a lot of strict requirements such as alphabetical order of imports | 17:57 |
| sdague | afazekas: ok, go ahead | 17:57 |
| afrittoli | afazekas: sorry I got in the middle | 17:57 |
| sdague | afrittoli: no worries | 17:57 |
| afazekas | the python python -c "import this" tells us the basic rules | 17:58 |
| afazekas | "Flat is better than nested." means we should use less folder | 17:58 |
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| afazekas | we should not put a single class to single file | 17:58 |
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| sdague | afazekas: I don't really read it that way | 17:58 |
| sdague | I read it as complex nesting in a file | 17:59 |
| afazekas | We should have duplicated word in a an absolute path | 17:59 |
| sdague | the directory and file structure I think is the least of my concerns right now :) | 17:59 |
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| afazekas | yes , it has multiple explanation :) , but generally we have too long absolute paths we repeated words | 17:59 |
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| sdague | afazekas: ok, how about we take it to the mailing list, as we're kind of out of time | 18:00 |
| afazekas | if we start applying the T302 style guide is will be more obvious | 18:00 |
| afazekas | ok | 18:00 |
| sdague | afazekas: ok | 18:00 |
| sdague | ok, I'm going to call it a meeting | 18:00 |
| sdague | follow on discussions, jump on #openstack-qa | 18:00 |
| sdague | or the mailing list | 18:01 |
| sdague | thanks everyone | 18:01 |
| sdague | #endmeeting | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 7 18:01:07 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_qa/2013/openstack_qa.2013-02-07-17.04.html | 18:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_qa/2013/openstack_qa.2013-02-07-17.04.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_qa/2013/openstack_qa.2013-02-07-17.04.log.html | 18:01 |
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| mtesauro | Anybody here for the OSSG meeting? | 18:06 |
| cjd_ | yes | 18:07 |
| rellerreller | I am | 18:07 |
| estebang9 | yes | 18:07 |
| lglenden | yes | 18:07 |
| mtesauro | I guess lets give bdpayne a couple of minutes - otherwise, I say lets hit the agenda | 18:08 |
| mtesauro | link: http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/OpenStackSecurity | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | ahh, sorry guys! | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | teaches me to ignore my calendar | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:08 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 7 18:08:48 2013 UTC. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:08 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:08 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | Ok, let's begin | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | #topic Storage Encryption Status | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Storage Encryption Status (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:09 | |
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| bdpayne | Could the parties involved in the storage encryption efforts provide a status update? | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | Intel and APL, if you're here | 18:09 |
| rellerreller | Volume encryption code has been submitted, but we are still awaiting reviews and acceptance | 18:10 |
| lglenden | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/21269/ | 18:10 |
| mtesauro | BTW, I have a bunch of feedback - enough that its not right for IRC, any idea on the mail list? That would be a good place for this. | 18:10 |
| lglenden | #link https://review.openstack.org/21264 | 18:11 |
| lglenden | #link https://review.openstack.org/21262 | 18:11 |
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| rellerreller | What do you mean by any idea on mail list? | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | ok, I'm happy to look over the code | 18:11 |
| mtesauro | In our first IRC meeting, it was mentioned that a mail list was being setup for this group. | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | but I assume you need reviews from specific parties? | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | ahh, for this let's just use the general dev list | 18:12 |
| rellerreller | I'm not exactly sure of the approval process. I need core reviewers. | 18:13 |
| rellerreller | But I appreciate feedback from everyone! | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | ok, so here's what I will do: | 18:13 |
| mtesauro | I have ping'ed the Swift developers we have at Rack - I'm waiting a response. | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | #action Bryan to review the APL code | 18:13 |
| mtesauro | I am book with threat models but can walk over there on Friday | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | #action Bryan to figure out formal review process by talking with PTLs and help move that along | 18:13 |
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| rellerreller | Thanks! | 18:14 |
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| bdpayne | np | 18:14 |
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| rellerreller | Our spec for volume encryption will help to give you an idea for our code design | 18:14 |
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| bdpayne | sounds good | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | any other things we should know about the APL side? | 18:15 |
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| bdpayne | if not, anyone from Intel here want to provide a status update? | 18:15 |
| rellerreller | I can't think of anything off hand | 18:15 |
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| lglenden | I think it's also important to mention that, especially on the key management front, this is a first version to get people able to try out our code | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | ok | 18:16 |
| lglenden | We know that we haven't solved all the key management issues yet. | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | with that said… are you wanting to get this into Grizzly or ? | 18:16 |
| rellerreller | Yes, grizzly is our goal | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | ok | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | alright, I'm not hearing from Intel, so we can move on to the next topic | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | #topic Hardening Guide | 18:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Hardening Guide (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:17 | |
| bdpayne | The hardening guide hasn't move forward much since last week. I've been a touch busy/ | 18:17 |
| hyakuhei | Did you take a look at the small changes I made to the outline? | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | No, I missed that | 18:17 |
| hyakuhei | I can spend some time putting the .tex files into a shape that reflects the outline over the weekend. | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | Hrm, I need to get better notifications setup, aparently | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | sounds great | 18:18 |
| hyakuhei | Just a few small changes, don't recall exactly. Need more time to spend on these things. | 18:18 |
| hyakuhei | In other news, HP Cloud should be adding some content in the near future. | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | excellent | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | I am planning to work on this some… just slowly bubbling up the stack | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | Need to get it out of this bootstrap phase. | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | and I'm, of course, open to other's getting involved as well | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | Absolutely! | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | someone from Red Hat expressed interest last week | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | I'll resync with him as well | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | Cool. I spoke to a few people who were interested at the weekend while at FOSDEM. | 18:19 |
| mtesauro | BTW, the OWASP OpenStack Security project was announced yesterday to ~36,000+ community members | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | nice! | 18:20 |
| mtesauro | I've already gotten some requests to join the project. We'll see what happens by the next meeting | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | #topic Open Discussion | 18:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:20 | |
| bdpayne | mtesauro can you provide details on that effort? | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | should this group and that group sync in some way or ? | 18:21 |
| hyakuhei | https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_OpenStack_Security_Project | 18:21 |
| hyakuhei | Seems like mtesauro is the guy to talk to/sync with. | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | #link https://www.owasp.org/index.php/OWASP_OpenStack_Security_Project | 18:21 |
| mtesauro | Yup that's the URL. I need to add some real content and I got the mail list info this AM | 18:21 |
| mtesauro | It is basically an attempt to draw people from OWASP into OpenStack to help with security testing, review etc. | 18:22 |
| mtesauro | I | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | yeah, very much needed | 18:22 |
| hyakuhei | Sounds like a good idea. | 18:22 |
| mtesauro | I've been in both groups and there's a good opportunity for great interactions | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | sounds good… please do keep this group posted and let us know if there's anything we can do to help facilitate that work | 18:23 |
| mtesauro | No problem. I'm going to give it a couple of days for people to join then rally the troups. | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | ok | 18:23 |
| mtesauro | Some of what happens will depend on the skill set/interest of the people from OWASP | 18:24 |
| mtesauro | I'm not worried about running out of work | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | Also wanted to briefly mention the Security Note on LXC since hyakuhei is here | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | Per discussion at last week's meeting, I think that the note is ready to go, you want to push it out or ?? | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | you == hyakuhei :-) | 18:25 |
| hyakuhei | Sure I'll do it tomorrow with any luck | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | sounds good | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | any other discussion? | 18:25 |
| hyakuhei | Mailed to the -dev ML with a little boilerplate explaining what an OSN is etc. | 18:25 |
| hyakuhei | I've no other business other than apologies for being late. | 18:26 |
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| bdpayne | ok, sounds good | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | I was late too… it happens! | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | thanks everyone! | 18:28 |
| mtesauro | No worries. | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:28 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 7 18:28:11 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:28 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-02-07-18.08.html | 18:28 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-02-07-18.08.txt | 18:28 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-02-07-18.08.log.html | 18:28 |
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| comstud | meow | 21:04 |
| devananda | \o | 21:05 |
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| dansmith | poop | 21:05 |
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| dansmith | vishy is always about 15 minutes late, so no need to panic yet :) | 21:06 |
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| sdague | heh | 21:08 |
| sdague | well, who's here for the nova meeting? | 21:09 |
| sdague | at least we can figure out how close to quorum we are | 21:09 |
| dansmith | #startmeeting | 21:09 |
| openstack | dansmith: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 21:09 |
| dansmith | #startmeeting nova | 21:09 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 7 21:09:43 2013 UTC. The chair is dansmith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:09 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:09 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:09 |
| dansmith | he'll be here | 21:09 |
| dansmith | I'll #chair him when he shows up | 21:09 |
| sdague | cool | 21:10 |
| jog0 | o/ | 21:10 |
| sdague | o/ | 21:10 |
| dansmith | although there's no agenda apparently | 21:10 |
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| comstud | do not commit future versions of oslo | 21:11 |
| dansmith | heh | 21:11 |
| dansmith | comstud: any chance rackspace could throw resources at the tempest gate problem? | 21:11 |
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| comstud | not sure | 21:11 |
| dansmith | 1.5 hours to get a read on any patch is pretty brtual :( | 21:11 |
| comstud | will ask | 21:11 |
| dansmith | and the way zuul works, | 21:11 |
| dansmith | that can easily become six hours if you're unlucky and behind some bad patches | 21:12 |
| sdague | dansmith: you can always see the zuul work in progress | 21:12 |
| sdague | http://status.openstack.org/zuul | 21:12 |
| dansmith | sdague: ...yeah of course | 21:12 |
| dansmith | sdague: but that does nothing for getting a read on whether the full run is going to pass, | 21:12 |
| dansmith | which is always the last one | 21:12 |
| westmaas | dansmith: do we know where the problem is? spinning up envs? running the tests? | 21:13 |
| westmaas | sorry, just catching up | 21:13 |
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| comstud | dansmith: look, i brought resources. | 21:13 |
| dansmith | westmaas: I think sdague knows more, but I think it's mostly cores and memory, surprise :) | 21:13 |
| sdague | it's just that we run a lot of tests now, and dansmith is impatient | 21:13 |
| comstud | lol | 21:13 |
| westmaas | haha | 21:14 |
| sdague | tempest will get quicker once the testr conversion happens over the next couple weeks | 21:14 |
| dansmith | if I'm the only one that thinks it's frustrating, | 21:14 |
| sdague | but we'll also have to look at bumping devstack node sizes | 21:15 |
| jog0 | dansmith: I agree with you | 21:15 |
| dansmith | then that's fine, but I go days sometimes without being able to get something to a mergeable state because I'm always waiting for runs | 21:15 |
| westmaas | sdague: do you know what size you use now? | 21:15 |
| sdague | whatever is the 4G nodes | 21:15 |
| westmaas | and the time is spent on test running, right? | 21:15 |
| dansmith | and it compounds with every change you have stacked on top of another, which is often where I'm at | 21:15 |
| dansmith | it's not as big of a deal for individual patches | 21:15 |
| westmaas | not on bringing up the nodes | 21:15 |
| sdague | we get past devstack in about 9 minutes | 21:16 |
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| sdague | there is detailed timing in all the logs | 21:16 |
| dansmith | sdague: devstack setup is not parallelized, right? | 21:17 |
| sdague | nope | 21:17 |
| dansmith | I wonder if some of it could be? | 21:17 |
| sdague | realize, we spent a lot of time squeezing out time from those runs | 21:17 |
| dansmith | I'm just asking | 21:17 |
| sdague | totally happy for other people to look at it as well, but there's not much low hanging fruit in there :) | 21:18 |
| dansmith | sdague: if the instances are 2 or 4 cores right now, | 21:18 |
| westmaas | node size could be the biggest thing unless its mosly about waiting idly for nodes to spin up | 21:18 |
| dansmith | then the tempest testr change isn't going to help all that much, | 21:18 |
| sdague | I think they are 2 cores | 21:18 |
| dansmith | which is why I was asking about larger nodes | 21:18 |
| sdague | westmaas: the tempest tests wait for guests to spin up | 21:18 |
| sdague | that's where a lot of time is | 21:18 |
| sdague | which is why testr will help | 21:19 |
| dansmith | sdague: but chris was saying that the speedup is 50% of your core count, right? | 21:19 |
| sdague | we'll see what 2 cores does | 21:19 |
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| westmaas | guests might spin up a little faster on larger nodes. if someone wants to reach out to me offline about using more RS resources we can do that, would just want to understand how much we are using first. | 21:20 |
| dansmith | okay, I thought he said that with 2 cores, four testr threads would actually go slower | 21:20 |
| sdague | with 2 cores there won't be 4 testr threads | 21:20 |
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| dansmith | sdague: you can run it with as many threads as you want, of course | 21:20 |
| sdague | dansmith: instead of speculating, why not wait for the actual testr review to hit tempest, then we'll have real data | 21:20 |
| dansmith | sdague: he was trying to see if there was really any idle time to gain by overcommitting | 21:21 |
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| dansmith | yes, lets linearize the process! | 21:21 |
| dansmith | anyway, I guess vishy isn't going to show up after all | 21:21 |
| sdague | I mean the easy answer is just turn back off a lot of tests, but the new tests already blocked breaks going in | 21:21 |
| dansmith | sdague: has anyone suggested that? I sure haven't :) | 21:22 |
| sdague | :) | 21:22 |
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| dansmith | okay, so do we bail? No agenda, no rustlebee, no vishy | 21:23 |
| dansmith | (and no-db-compute, by the way) | 21:23 |
| comstud | hehe | 21:23 |
| jog0 | one quick comment: I have my BP ready for review https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/db-api-cleanup https://review.openstack.org/#q,topic:bp/db-api-cleanup,n,z | 21:24 |
| dansmith | jog0: yeah, I've been meaning to look at it | 21:24 |
| dansmith | jog0: I'd ask why so many of them are failing jenkins, but I know why :) | 21:24 |
| jog0 | one of the patches is blocked on getting code into oslo. | 21:25 |
| jog0 | and the new tempest tests have been very helpful | 21:25 |
| jog0 | it seems nova/api/openstack/compute/contrib/security_groups.py has very little unit tests | 21:25 |
| dansmith | yes, they found the last item in quantum_api for me :) | 21:25 |
| dansmith | jog0: anything else? | 21:27 |
| jog0 | dansmith: nope | 21:27 |
| dansmith | anyone? | 21:27 |
| dansmith | bueller? | 21:27 |
| comstud | just a comment maybe | 21:28 |
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| comstud | db pooling becomes important when moving to conductor... yet we have something broken with our use of sqlalchemy that prevents db pooling from working.. seems that it's leaving transactions open.. thus innodb locks held. | 21:29 |
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| comstud | queries end up timing out waiting on locks in mysql | 21:29 |
| comstud | working on tracking it down. | 21:29 |
| jog0 | devananda: ^ | 21:30 |
| dansmith | comstud: why is this not showing up in devstack? does it take a while to crop up? | 21:30 |
| comstud | we were having a discussion yesterday or the day before | 21:30 |
| sdague | comstud: so how broken are things with the oslo sync that wasn't? I didn't even occur to me that markmc might have inbounded non committed oslo code :) | 21:30 |
| comstud | does devstack have db pooling on? | 21:30 |
| sdague | comstud: I don't think so | 21:30 |
| comstud | sdague: most of the things out of sync have merged now it appears | 21:30 |
| comstud | dansmith: it seems to only show when db pooling is on | 21:30 |
| comstud | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/21461/ | 21:30 |
| dansmith | comstud: is that something we should enable? or would it be too hard to track down issues? | 21:30 |
| comstud | ^^ this is an improvement needed also to be committed to oslo and merged into nova | 21:31 |
| uvirtbot | comstud: Error: "^" is not a valid command. | 21:31 |
| comstud | otherwise you get connect timeouts under load, etc | 21:31 |
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| comstud | dansmith: it's certainly not ready yet | 21:31 |
| comstud | i dunno if devstack provides enough parallelism and load to see the issue anyway | 21:31 |
| dansmith | okay | 21:32 |
| comstud | it's easy to reproduce in a test script that slams DB requests with pooling on | 21:32 |
| dansmith | and conductor makes the problem worse because it takes the db hit for everyone and just hits the problem faster? | 21:32 |
| sdague | from a gate perspective, I don't think there is enough db traffic to have it make a difference | 21:32 |
| jog0 | comstud: I wasn't able to see any difference in tempest or smoketests in devstack with db pool on | 21:32 |
| sdague | yeh, I'm not surprised jog0 | 21:32 |
| comstud | dansmith: i have not run with nova-conductor yet, but I can tell you that yes it will.. because of that reason | 21:32 |
| dansmith | comstud: okay | 21:32 |
| comstud | dansmith: I see it with global nova-cells which takes DB updates from all child cells | 21:33 |
| comstud | conductor and global nova-cells have nearly the same function | 21:33 |
| dansmith | I'm embarrassed to say that I don't really know what this means.. is this avoiding connection setup and teardown for every query? | 21:33 |
| sdague | the big timing issues in tempest are starting guests and cleaning them up, which we have to do carefully because it's easy to overrun memory in the gate | 21:33 |
| comstud | jog0: ya, I'm not surprised.. I don't think there's probably enough parallelism in devstack tests | 21:33 |
| comstud | so I think any perf issues you have are just something else | 21:34 |
| comstud | Oh... one other thing to note :) | 21:34 |
| comstud | if you ditch sqlalchemy and do raw mysql queries with MySQLdb... | 21:34 |
| comstud | the problems go away and things are SIGNIFICANTLY faster. | 21:34 |
| dansmith | heh | 21:34 |
| comstud | even when doing serialized DB calls | 21:34 |
| comstud | with no thread pooling. | 21:34 |
| dripton | comstud: what about if you only use low-level sqlalchemy and not the top ORM layer? | 21:34 |
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| comstud | dripton: I was going to try that next | 21:35 |
| dripton | comstud: +1 | 21:35 |
| dansmith | we're getting closer to not even needing the ORM layer for much, right? | 21:35 |
| comstud | although I'm focusing on just trying to find where sqlalchemy is holding transaction open | 21:35 |
| dansmith | with jog0's patches | 21:35 |
| sdague | well you could at least write a non-sqlalchemy version of the api | 21:35 |
| sdague | after those | 21:35 |
| comstud | yea | 21:36 |
| dripton | dansmith: we currently use the ORM layer all over, and I don't think jog0's patches change that | 21:36 |
| comstud | dansmith: what dripton said | 21:36 |
| dansmith | hrm.. | 21:36 |
| dansmith | I don't get that | 21:36 |
| jog0 | dripton: the patch prevents sqlalchemy objects from being returned from nova.db.api functions | 21:36 |
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| comstud | In a way it gets you closer, I guess | 21:37 |
| jog0 | after that removing ORM should be easier | 21:37 |
| dripton | jog0: right but we still use ORM inside the api functions | 21:37 |
| jog0 | dripton: yeahhhh | 21:37 |
| jog0 | for now | 21:37 |
| comstud | you need to rewrite almost all of sqlalchmey/api.py :) | 21:37 |
| dripton | jog0: okay, we agree. Not gone yet but maybe in H | 21:37 |
| comstud | still | 21:37 |
| sdague | dripton: yeh, but you now *could* write an alternate api implementation | 21:37 |
| comstud | it might as well be an alternate api impl | 21:37 |
| comstud | yes | 21:37 |
| dripton | sdague: agreed, we're going the right way | 21:37 |
| dripton | we still need to prove that *low-level* sqlalchemy doesn't have the performance problem | 21:37 |
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| dripton | hope not, because it buys us portability | 21:38 |
| sdague | yeh, loosing portability would really suck | 21:38 |
| comstud | depends on how low level we need to go | 21:38 |
| comstud | anyway, we'll see. first thing is just trying to find what's broken | 21:38 |
| comstud | perfroamnce after | 21:38 |
| sdague | comstud: there are subtle typing things between even mysql and pg, so it's more than you might imagine | 21:38 |
| comstud | nod | 21:39 |
| dripton | my db-archiving patch (not done yet) uses only low-level sqlalchemy. I was worried someone might complain about that but it looks like we're headed that way anyway. | 21:39 |
| sdague | but maybe do custom things for just a few of the most expensive bits | 21:39 |
| comstud | I was considering starting a mysql only api implementation | 21:39 |
| comstud | which falls back to sqlalchemy for methods not implemented yet | 21:40 |
| jog0 | comstud: +1 | 21:40 |
| devananda | ++ | 21:40 |
| comstud | which gives you a path to migrate if you're using myql | 21:40 |
| comstud | mysql | 21:40 |
| dripton | comstud: before being that extreme please try with low-level sqlalchemy | 21:40 |
| sdague | dripton: you mean just doing .insert().values().execute() kind of things? | 21:40 |
| dripton | sdague: yes | 21:40 |
| comstud | dripton: nod | 21:40 |
| sdague | dripton: yeh, I was doing that in the data injection for migrations, because I can't use the models | 21:40 |
| sdague | it's not too bad | 21:40 |
| sdague | it would be interesting if that sped us up | 21:40 |
| devananda | a chunk of the issues i've seen appear to come from the way sqlalchemy automagically handles creates transactions | 21:41 |
| devananda | even when there's no explicit "with session.begin", there is still a transaction | 21:41 |
| devananda | doing the lower level calls directly might be circumventing that? | 21:42 |
| dripton | devananda: I *think* you can go transactionless with low-level sqlalchemy, but I need to test | 21:42 |
| dripton | my code is using "with session.begin" | 21:43 |
| comstud | devananda: yeah, that's part of the problem I'm positive | 21:43 |
| comstud | i changed a DB call to remove session.begin() | 21:43 |
| comstud | and I don't get any deadlocks anymore... but I still get lock wait timeouts. | 21:43 |
| comstud | but means sqlalchemy is not committing somewhere | 21:43 |
| comstud | AFAIK | 21:43 |
| devananda | right | 21:43 |
| devananda | comstud: the real fix to the stuff we were discussing is, IMNSHO, to add UNIQUE indexes | 21:44 |
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| devananda | using a myslq-specific extension (INSERT .. ON DUP KEY UPDATE) is then possible | 21:45 |
| devananda | and pgsql has a similar capability which they call upserts | 21:45 |
| devananda | it's just a bit trickier (have to use a trigger or such) | 21:45 |
| devananda | sqlite is screwed tho :) | 21:45 |
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| dripton | I don't think anyone would really use sqlite in production | 21:45 |
| devananda | trying to enforce uniqueness with locking outside of the database is prone to all kinds of problems (like these) | 21:46 |
| comstud | devandanda: unfort there's no portable way to do it in sqlalchemy | 21:46 |
| comstud | the ON DUP KEY UPDATE | 21:46 |
| sdague | can we extend sqlalchemy for it? | 21:47 |
| comstud | but even without that deadlock problem.. I'm getting the lock wait timeouts | 21:47 |
| sdague | at the end of the day it's just a meta compiler | 21:47 |
| comstud | sdague: there was a way to compile it onto the end of a query | 21:47 |
| sdague | seems like we could have an .insert_update method and backends | 21:47 |
| comstud | but you'd need to figure out how to do it for pg, mysql, sqlite, etc :) | 21:48 |
| devananda | comstud: IIUC, the lock wait timeouts are coming from the same thing -- >1 thread trying to lock the same rows with an UPDATE statement, when it really just wants to INSERT. | 21:48 |
| comstud | devananda: and innodb doesn't detect a deadlock? | 21:48 |
| sdague | comstud: yeh, but if we need to figure that out anyway for openstack code, might as well monkey patch sqlalchemy for it | 21:48 |
| dripton | I've done it with sqlalchemy the manual way: inside a transaction, select, if found then update else insert. | 21:48 |
| dripton | ugly but portable | 21:48 |
| devananda | comstud: if neither thread has the lock and both want it (and can't get it), then it deadlocks. | 21:49 |
| sdague | dripton: yeh, if we could encapsulate it nicely, at least the ugly could live off in a method somewhere | 21:49 |
| devananda | comstud: if one thread has the lock and just sits on it, other threads will timeout. so yes, that problem is sqlalchemy not committing properly | 21:49 |
| devananda | but it's holding the lock because it did an UPDATE on 0 rows | 21:49 |
| comstud | yeah, that's the issue it seems | 21:49 |
| devananda | (i think) | 21:49 |
| comstud | I'm trying to track down where it's sitting | 21:49 |
| comstud | and why | 21:49 |
| devananda | dripton: that "portable way" is precisely the cause of this problem :( | 21:50 |
| dripton | sigh | 21:50 |
| devananda | dripton: if the row doesn't exist, both trx will insert (and one should fail, but right now, won't because there's no UNIQUE key, leading to data inconsistency) | 21:50 |
| dripton | stackoverflow says sqlalchemy has session.saveorupdate, but that might be at the wrong level | 21:50 |
| dripton | Can we add unique keys wherever we need them? | 21:51 |
| sdague | dripton: the sqlalchemy code isn't that bad, I'd say just read the code :) | 21:51 |
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| devananda | yes :) | 21:51 |
| comstud | i added them | 21:51 |
| comstud | in the method i was testing | 21:51 |
| comstud | (bw usage updates) | 21:51 |
| comstud | and it didn't help | 21:52 |
| devananda | so uniques are possible now that soft_deletes set deleted=<id> | 21:52 |
| devananda | comstud: it should help if you change the SQL | 21:52 |
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| devananda | comstud: either use INSERT .. ON DUP KEY, or remove the SELECT and do this | 21:52 |
| devananda | try: | 21:52 |
| devananda | INSERT | 21:52 |
| comstud | yeah, ok, I had to... and I did get deadlocks to go away | 21:52 |
| devananda | except Duplicate: | 21:53 |
| devananda | UPDATE | 21:53 |
| devananda | with no transaction around them | 21:53 |
| comstud | however, I was left with this lock wait timeout issue still.. which is a sep problem and I'm sure something in sqlalchemy | 21:53 |
| devananda | hmmm | 21:53 |
| comstud | that only seems to happen when thread pooling | 21:53 |
| devananda | yea, that's odd then | 21:53 |
| dansmith | I think we've veered off nova meeting type stuff, anyone not in favor of ending? | 21:53 |
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| comstud | ya, sorry, was supposed to be a quick FYI ;) | 21:53 |
| comstud | good discussion though | 21:54 |
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| boris-42 | Hi all | 21:54 |
| dansmith | don't stop discussing, I just want to end so I can run off at some point :) | 21:54 |
| comstud | nod | 21:54 |
| dansmith | #endmeeting | 21:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 7 21:54:26 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-02-07-21.09.html | 21:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-02-07-21.09.txt | 21:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-02-07-21.09.log.html | 21:54 |
| dripton | db meeting in 6 minutes so we can resume comstud's discussion then | 21:54 |
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| comstud | ok | 21:54 |
| comstud | bio break then | 21:54 |
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| devananda | folks back // want to continue the db discussion? | 22:02 |
| comstud | go | 22:02 |
| dripton | here | 22:02 |
| devananda | #startmeeting db | 22:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 7 22:02:49 2013 UTC. The chair is devananda. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: db)" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'db' | 22:02 |
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| devananda | (kinda lost my train of thought with the break, heh) | 22:03 |
| comstud | i have 2 separate issues | 22:03 |
| comstud | though somewhat related | 22:03 |
| comstud | but I dunno what the agenda here is.. | 22:04 |
| devananda | so i didn't have an agenda for today | 22:04 |
| comstud | ok | 22:04 |
| devananda | last meeting, we went over the status of all the db BP's, which was good, but i dont think we need to rehash that | 22:04 |
| devananda | the problems you're seeing with pooling is pretty big IMO | 22:05 |
| devananda | especially how that will affect conductor | 22:05 |
| comstud | they've uncovered at least one problem for sure, one with which you were already aware, I think | 22:05 |
| comstud | yeah | 22:05 |
| comstud | i'll recap | 22:05 |
| comstud | starting with this first issue | 22:06 |
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| comstud | well, first... | 22:06 |
| comstud | With the move to nova-conductor... we're now pushing DB queries to a single node (or set of nodes if you run multiple nova-conductors)... | 22:07 |
| comstud | but in a large deployment, you have much less conductors than computes, likely. | 22:07 |
| comstud | You don't want to have 1 per compute :) | 22:07 |
| comstud | This means that DB pooling becomes important... as without it, DB calls block the whole python process. | 22:08 |
| comstud | The RPC queue will back up because the service cannot keep up with all of the DB requests if it has to block on every single one without any sort of parallelism | 22:08 |
| comstud | Good so far? | 22:09 |
| devananda | yep | 22:09 |
| comstud | Cools... so I've been doing testing with db pooling | 22:09 |
| comstud | With the trunk code, under load, you can get some connect timeouts, etc. This patch is needed: | 22:09 |
| comstud | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/21461/ | 22:09 |
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| comstud | which changes how the thread pooling is done | 22:09 |
| comstud | After applying that... | 22:10 |
| comstud | issue #1) innodb reporting Deadlock | 22:10 |
| boris-42 | Seems that DB pooling start working=) | 22:11 |
| comstud | when you get 2 bw_usage_update() requests in parallel for the same instance uuid (can be different mac addresses/networks), this happens | 22:11 |
| comstud | This is due to doing UPDATE+INSERT in a single transaction | 22:11 |
| devananda | iirc, it should also deadlock the first time any instance is provisioned for a new tenant, if that happens in parallel. | 22:11 |
| devananda | and in a few places around fixed / floating IP allocation, if they happen fast enough in parallel | 22:12 |
| comstud | Yeah, you had a list that reported a number of other spots where this could happen | 22:12 |
| comstud | besides bw_usage_update() | 22:12 |
| devananda | right. there are also some open bugs on LP about these now | 22:12 |
| comstud | In any case... We've found that bw_usage_cache table should have a unique index on instance_uuid+mac+start_period, which it doesn't right now. | 22:13 |
| comstud | And that would allow us to do things like INSERT ON DUP KEY UPDATE | 22:13 |
| comstud | if we can find a portable way to do it with sqlalchemy :) | 22:13 |
| dripton | sounds like we should add the index regardless, while we hunt for the portable upsert | 22:14 |
| comstud | I tested a variation on this that removed the Deadlock | 22:14 |
| comstud | yes | 22:14 |
| comstud | I think we can solve that issue without *too* much trouble, however | 22:15 |
| comstud | issue #2: | 22:15 |
| comstud | Even after getting innodb Deadlocks to go away, I'm seeing queries getting stuck and timing out due to waiting on innodb locks. | 22:15 |
| comstud | The only conclusion is that sqlalchemy is not committing a transaction... it's holding it somewhere | 22:16 |
| devananda | i dug through my notes and remembered that i found this issue a while back, too | 22:16 |
| devananda | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1007038/comments/4 | 22:16 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1007038 in nova "Nova is issuing unnecessary ROLLBACK statements to MySQL" [Low,Confirmed] | 22:16 |
| comstud | but I can only see this when thread pooling is on | 22:16 |
| comstud | devananda: I was able to cause an extra rollback very easily.. | 22:16 |
| comstud | kind of a side toopic | 22:17 |
| comstud | topic | 22:17 |
| devananda | comstud: it was happening in august last year. was thread pooling in at that time? | 22:17 |
| comstud | no | 22:17 |
| comstud | it seems to be our wrapping of DB exceptions | 22:17 |
| devananda | rather. it was happening when I disabled pool_reset_on_return | 22:17 |
| comstud | from what I could tell | 22:17 |
| devananda | hmmm | 22:17 |
| comstud | i had code such as this: | 22:17 |
| comstud | with session.begin(): | 22:17 |
| comstud | try: | 22:18 |
| comstud | do a query | 22:18 |
| comstud | except DBDuplicateEntry: | 22:18 |
| comstud | pass | 22:18 |
| comstud | and I noticed that 2 rollbacks would happen if there was an exception | 22:18 |
| comstud | and there'd be a error logged about it | 22:18 |
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| devananda | kinda makes sense | 22:18 |
| devananda | sqla is probably doing a rollback before the exception bubbles up to your code | 22:18 |
| comstud | it seems like a rollback would happen when the exception occurred | 22:19 |
| comstud | and then also when we exited the context manager. | 22:19 |
| devananda | and then after you leave the with session context, another implicit rollback happens (because of pool_reset_on_return) | 22:19 |
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| devananda | right | 22:19 |
| comstud | yep! | 22:19 |
| comstud | exactly | 22:19 |
| comstud | that's a side issue, I think | 22:19 |
| comstud | i'm concerned about where sqlalchemy seems to be holding a transaction | 22:19 |
| devananda | yea. me too | 22:20 |
| comstud | causing these lock wait timeouts | 22:20 |
| comstud | I can cause the whole process to stall by slamming DB requests | 22:20 |
| comstud | after meetings are done today, I was going to debug with eventlet backdoor | 22:20 |
| comstud | anyway, that's where I am with 'bugs' that show up with db pooling. | 22:21 |
| comstud | separate issue, somewhat related: | 22:21 |
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| comstud | sqlalchemy is extremely slow compared to raw queries with MySQLdb. | 22:22 |
| comstud | And there are no lock wait timeouts, either | 22:22 |
| comstud | :) | 22:22 |
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| devananda | :) | 22:22 |
| dripton | comstud: I think that's only with the ORM. Low-level sqla is pretty fast IMX | 22:22 |
| comstud | it very well might be, I just haven't tested it yet | 22:22 |
| comstud | belliott and I have been working on this together | 22:22 |
| devananda | by raw queries, you mean model.insert? or session.execute("INSERT ... INTO table") | 22:23 |
| devananda | just want to be clear | 22:23 |
| comstud | mysqldb .cursor(....) | 22:23 |
| dripton | the fast ones are session.execute, but it could be the Python insert() not necessaily the string insert | 22:23 |
| dripton | comstud: please confirm for yourself, but I want to make sure we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater | 22:24 |
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| comstud | cursor.execute('UPDATE bw...') | 22:24 |
| dripton | my experience is that low-level SQLAlchemy is an excellent portability shim, and high-level sqla ORM doesn't scale to big projects | 22:24 |
| comstud | dripton: I'm not proposing we do. I'm just stating what I've seen so far | 22:24 |
| dripton | ok | 22:24 |
| devananda | "doesn't scale" sums up my exp with all ORMs | 22:24 |
| dripton | +1 | 22:24 |
| comstud | it was just a quick hack to test something | 22:25 |
| dripton | but I haven't tried all of them so I'm being nice | 22:25 |
| comstud | wanted to eliminate innodb just being stupid somehow | 22:25 |
| dripton | yep | 22:25 |
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| dripton | one layer at a time | 22:25 |
| devananda | would it be viable to replace just the areas that are likely to deadlock with raw sql? | 22:26 |
| dripton | I think we'd end up replacing entire api calls that have problems | 22:26 |
| comstud | i was thinking about that yes | 22:26 |
| devananda | ie, anywhere that currently uses with_lockmode or select-then-update-or-insert | 22:26 |
| devananda | and yea, that does mean several api calls get entirely rewritten to avoid locking issues | 22:26 |
| comstud | but I think all of the calls potentially have this 'lock wait timeout' issue | 22:26 |
| comstud | because it's a sqlalchemy orm layer problem | 22:27 |
| boris-42 | comstud +1 | 22:27 |
| comstud | with db pooling anyway | 22:27 |
| devananda | well | 22:27 |
| dripton | We can start with a couple that are known bad then start attacking en masse if it works well | 22:27 |
| devananda | while i agree with that | 22:27 |
| comstud | but in particular, I've seen it with 3 or 4 calls | 22:27 |
| devananda | if we replaced all the ORM code that touches table X with raw sql, that didn't have locking problems | 22:27 |
| comstud | they just happen to be the most common calls that cells uses. | 22:27 |
| comstud | so that doesn't eliminate any of the others | 22:27 |
| devananda | true. but lock waits and deadlocks are table specific | 22:28 |
| devananda | it's not like holding on lock on table_a causes a problem for table_b | 22:28 |
| comstud | sure sure | 22:28 |
| comstud | i know | 22:28 |
| comstud | but i'd expect that it could happen on any table | 22:28 |
| devananda | granted, there _is_ a larger problem with sqla here, which i'd love to see fixed :) | 22:28 |
| comstud | yea | 22:28 |
| devananda | ah. so I wouldn't | 22:28 |
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| devananda | afaict it will only happen when the ORM is trying to pre-emptively lock rows | 22:29 |
| devananda | ie, with_lockmode or SELECT-then-INSERT | 22:29 |
| devananda | there aren't that many places which do that | 22:29 |
| comstud | but if there's somehow an implicit transaction for all of our DB api calls, does that not mean there's locking of some sort on every table? | 22:29 |
| devananda | well, yes, but no :) | 22:30 |
| comstud | i was able to see this problem even after removing session.begin() | 22:30 |
| comstud | for instance | 22:30 |
| devananda | select 1; begin; update table ... where ..; commit; rollback; | 22:30 |
| comstud | (the lock wait timeouts, not the Deadlock) | 22:30 |
| devananda | that's the usual sqla query pattern for a single update | 22:30 |
| dripton | But if we change an API call to not use the ORM then that should go away, right? | 22:30 |
| dripton | We can put sqla in trace mode to see all the commands it sends to the DB, and verify that simple stuff doesn't do any extra transaction stuff. | 22:31 |
| devananda | if sqla somehow forgets to do the final "commit; rollback;" then yea, the lock wait problem could happen anywhere | 22:31 |
| comstud | nod | 22:31 |
| comstud | atm, that's what I suspect somewhere.. but I don't know for sure | 22:32 |
| devananda | k | 22:32 |
| comstud | possible i'm wrong and it's only happening in certain calls | 22:32 |
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| comstud | dunno! | 22:32 |
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| devananda | i wonder whether it's related to eventlet? | 22:32 |
| comstud | but I know we're approaching the limits here at RAX in global-cells | 22:33 |
| comstud | with all of the DB calls it has to do | 22:33 |
| comstud | so I need Db pooling RSN | 22:33 |
| dripton | devananda: me too | 22:33 |
| comstud | I may have to resort to raw queries for things at least internally if I can't figure this out quickly | 22:33 |
| comstud | and I know this same problem will show up in conductor under load | 22:33 |
| comstud | (we're still using local conductor only) | 22:34 |
| comstud | i'm going to attempt to find the sqlalchemy issue first | 22:34 |
| dripton | sounds good | 22:34 |
| comstud | and if that takes too long, look at low level sqlalchemy calls | 22:34 |
| devananda | ++ | 22:34 |
| devananda | i wouldn't mind seeing low level sqla calls upstream, esp considering it's better for performance | 22:35 |
| dripton | I will have a work-in-progress patch containing low-level sqla up soon, if you need a reference. It doesn't quite work yet. | 22:35 |
| comstud | i could def use a reference | 22:35 |
| dripton | I'll ping you when I upload it. | 22:36 |
| comstud | or.. it'd save some googling at least :) | 22:36 |
| comstud | hehe ty | 22:36 |
| dripton | Here's my fundamental problem with db-archiving: my current api call is to move *all* deleted rows to shadow tables in one call. That could take a long time. I don't know a clever way to subdivide the job. | 22:36 |
| devananda | comstud: would it be possible to disable eventlet in conductor, while still enabling tpool? | 22:37 |
| devananda | probably a crazy idea ... | 22:37 |
| devananda | dripton: ORDER BY id LIMIT X; | 22:38 |
| comstud | tpool is implemented in eventlet | 22:38 |
| comstud | eventlet.tpool | 22:38 |
| devananda | hah. yep, crazy idea | 22:38 |
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| comstud | we could do our own threading, i suppose.. but you lose pseudo-parallelising pulling off the rabbit queue | 22:38 |
| comstud | maybe it's a win in the end, though, i dunno | 22:39 |
| comstud | i suspect kinda not | 22:39 |
| comstud | but i dunno! | 22:39 |
| dripton | devananda: yes, that works within one table. I'm worried about cross-table issues due to foreign keys, but we don't have many so maybe it's okay. | 22:39 |
| devananda | dripton: there shouldn't be any FKs in production IMNSHO .... | 22:39 |
| devananda | dripton: but even so, i'm not sure how that would matter | 22:40 |
| devananda | dripton: loop on one table, in small chunks, until it's finished. then move to next table | 22:40 |
| devananda | make sure each chunk is a separate transaction, too | 22:40 |
| boris-42 | devananda +1 | 22:40 |
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| devananda | otherwise you can blow away the innodb undo space, and it will stall replication, etc... | 22:40 |
| dripton | devananda: sure, FKs would just impose an ordering on how to move things. But, yeah, I'll do a bunch of little transactions and have a row limit per call to the api | 22:40 |
| comstud | i'm concerned about down time for large deployments | 22:41 |
| comstud | with the changes to soft delete | 22:41 |
| comstud | the deleted column | 22:41 |
| comstud | maybe we just prune the tables first if we don't care about archiving | 22:42 |
| dripton | comstud: you mean downtime when running the archiving operation? | 22:42 |
| comstud | DB migration | 22:42 |
| comstud | in general | 22:42 |
| dripton | comstud: or when migrating the deleted column? | 22:42 |
| dripton | ah | 22:42 |
| comstud | yeah that one | 22:42 |
| comstud | we ran a test... | 22:42 |
| comstud | we took the proposed migration and ran it against a copy of the DB | 22:43 |
| comstud | it took about 45 minutes IIRC | 22:43 |
| comstud | :) | 22:43 |
| boris-42 | =))) | 22:43 |
| devananda | i would assume that deployuers are not going to just run all the migrations blindly, but we should include a note about the larger migrations | 22:43 |
| dripton | +1 | 22:43 |
| devananda | comstud: 45min is nothing for a big ALTER TABLE ;) | 22:43 |
| comstud | yeah, but unfort due to use of sqlalchemy orm... | 22:43 |
| boris-42 | alter table for all tables=) | 22:43 |
| dripton | comstud: I was planning to include another API call to nuke deleted rows | 22:43 |
| comstud | it means shit is broken during the whole migration | 22:43 |
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| devananda | sure. which is why you have two db's & HA | 22:44 |
| devananda | :) | 22:44 |
| comstud | i think we just prune our tables first | 22:44 |
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| devananda | or that, hehe | 22:44 |
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| comstud | i gotta drop off.. anything else for me? | 22:45 |
| devananda | anyone have other topics to bring up? it's seeming like we're about done | 22:46 |
| * comstud waits | 22:46 | |
| dripton | I'm done | 22:46 |
| devananda | cool | 22:46 |
| devananda | thanks guys :) | 22:46 |
| dripton | thanks for the tip devananda | 22:46 |
| devananda | #endmeeting | 22:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 22:46 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 7 22:46:34 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:46 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/db/2013/db.2013-02-07-22.02.html | 22:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/db/2013/db.2013-02-07-22.02.txt | 22:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/db/2013/db.2013-02-07-22.02.log.html | 22:46 |
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