Wednesday, 2013-02-13

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DuncanT1#startmeeting cinder16:04
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 13 16:04:33 2013 UTC.  The chair is DuncanT1. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:04
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:04
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* DuncanT1 hopes there are some folks here or he's going to end up looking very silly ;-)16:04
avishayI'm here16:05
winston-dhi DuncanT116:05
rushiagr1DuncanT1: o/16:05
DuncanT1'lo all16:05
DuncanT1Shall we start with status updates? Who's got things they've been working on?16:05
kmartinFC update16:05
avishayFC update please16:06
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DuncanT1#topic FC update16:06
*** openstack changes topic to "FC update (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:06
kmartinWill submit a patch today on the cinder side as well I hope final patch on the nova side16:06
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kmartingetting good reviews on the nova side16:06
kmartinidea is to submit two review on the cinder side, one for the base FC class16:07
kmartinand one for the 3PAR FC driver that dependson the base16:07
xyang_kmartin: Is the base FC class mostly empty?16:08
bswartzkmartin: sounds like good news!16:08
DuncanT1Sounds good, I'm sure people waiting on it will be keen to review.16:08
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kmartinThis of course all depens on the nova changes getting in, but we feel like they will16:08
avishayMore classes :(16:08
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kmartinIt was suggested in the draft that we should put the base case in now16:08
kmartinso all driver would not need to change in the future, some common functions that can go in there will be copy vol to image and image to vol16:09
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avishayI have something to say about that, but don't want to hijack this topic :)16:10
kmartinif we left it out then all drivers would need to change when we added it16:10
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xyang_kmartin: agree base class should be in first as it doesn't depends on nova changes16:10
kmartinyeah, the goal is to beat the rush on review that will happen next week, i16:10
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DuncanT1avishay: Might as well make your point now as later....16:11
avishayMy point:
kmartinone change that came up in the nova reviews is we are changing the type from fibrechan to fibre_channel16:11
avishayThe whole driver class hierarchy seems off as it stands16:12
xyang_kmartin: so cinder driver needs to change type too16:12
kmartinavishay: xyang_ and jgrifftith both suggested we seperate16:12
kmartinxyang_: yes, it will be fibre_channel instead of fibrechan16:13
DuncanT1avishay: While I don't necessarily disagree with the blueprint, there is no way that is going to go into Grizzly16:13
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xyang_I think it's cleaner to have a FC base class16:13
DuncanT1avishay: It would break everybody's driver, in tree and out16:13
avishayDuncanT1: that's fine - not necessarily for Grizzly16:13
avishayDuncanT1: for Grizzly my driver works fine with FC and iSCSI in one class...just something to think about onward16:13
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rushiagr1avishay: I agree with your view, but its topic for H release16:14
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DuncanT1Maybe discuss the class (& file) layout at the summit? There are some divergences of opinion on the subject16:14
kmartinthat's all I had16:14
kmartinDuncanT1: +116:14
avishayrushiagr1: DuncanT1: where do we put summit topics?16:14
avishaythat's why i made the blueprint16:14
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avishaythere are lots of things that people say "we'll talk about it at the summit" and i don't know if anyone's keeping track :)16:15
bswartzavishay: design summit talks open up about a month before the summit16:15
DuncanT1avishay: Start a wiki page & dump the link in the cinder channel & mailing list I guess? JGriffith can use it as a starting point then16:15
avishayDuncanT1: OK good idea16:15
kmartinavishay: good topic for the summit16:15
DuncanT1No harm and probably lots of benefit in starting the list early16:15
avishayWill do16:16
DuncanT1So any more questions on FC?16:16
rushiagr1DuncanT1: +116:16
avishayI tested the current FC code with the Storwize/SVC driver - seems to work16:16
DuncanT1Good to hear16:16
xyang_When is the deadline for submit summit talks?  Is it this week?16:16
winston-dall, design summit session submission is open at: http://summit.openstack.org16:16
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rushiagr1xyang_: I guess its 15th this month16:17
bswartzwow they opend early this time16:17
winston-dnope, that was for conference16:17
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kmartinxyang_: the 15th is for conference sessions16:17
bswartzyeah confernce talks and design summit talks are different16:17
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winston-di mean 15th deadline16:17
DuncanT1I don't know when the deadline is, I'm afraid16:17
kmartindesign session I don't believe have open up yet16:18
winston-dkmartin: check out summit.openstack.org16:18
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DuncanT1Moving along...16:19
* kmartin tail between his legs :)16:19
winston-ddon't you received mail from Thierry(ttx)?16:19
DuncanT1#topic minimum driver requirements16:19
*** openstack changes topic to "minimum driver requirements (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:19
DuncanT1We discussed this and I think kmartin put it up on the wiki:
DuncanT1I don't think there is much to discuss on the subject, but I wanted people to be aware that there is a current 'official' list for new drivers16:20
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kmartinDuncanT1: yep16:20
YadaThanks kmartin, guess many of us did not know what Volume Stats need to be ;-)16:20
YadaDuncanT1 : where is this list ?16:21
DuncanT1The wiki is the list16:21
kmartinI can then to the wiki if you think it would help16:21
kmartinI can add them^16:22
YadaCause we are working to add our, feature freeze is still the 19th isn't it ?16:22
DuncanT1I'd certainly list to see a volume_stats list please :-)16:22
Yadamartin : will help IMHO16:22
avishayDuncanT1: +116:22
kmartinI'll add them today16:22
DuncanT1You're happy to take that action on kmartin? Fantastic16:23
Yadabut questions on this list of features : does it mean all existing and new driver MUST implement all of them ?16:23
DuncanT1Yada: It means any new driver is unlikely to pass review without them16:23
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bswartzYada: yes16:23
Yadafine with me (new driver is coming from us)16:23
kmartinDuncanT1: no problem16:23
avishayI guess another summit topic is when to toss old drivers in the garbage that don't get updated?16:24
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bswartzalthough for new features added in a future release, I think existing drivers get 1 release to catch up with feature parity16:24
Yadaavishay:  +116:24
DuncanT1Yada: The details of supporting existing drivers needs discussion IMO, but something like one release to catch up or we drop them seems reasonable16:24
avishayDuncanT1: +116:24
DuncanT1#action kmartin to document get_driver_stats for wike16:24
DuncanT1#action summit session on supporting old drivers16:25
YadaDuncantT1 : so feature freeze will have no impact for old drivers (regarding volume stats implementation... ) : correct ?16:25
DuncanT1Yada: No, though if we can get them fixed before feature freeze that would be better16:26
Yadacan imagine16:26
DuncanT1Ok, next update? Anybody want to say something on multi-backend perhaps?16:26
avishayI'm taking the liberty of removing 'Goals for Folsom release' from the wiki :)16:26
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DuncanT1avishay: +116:27
winston-dhub_cap is not here16:27
rushiagr1hub_cap not present16:27
DuncanT1Scheduler status update?16:28
DuncanT1Anybody got anything to say on that?16:28
DuncanT1The stage is all yours16:29
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kmartinYada: Current list of stats if you are still unsure stats = {'driver_version': '1.0',16:29
kmartin             'free_capacity_gb': 'unknown',16:29
kmartin             'reserved_percentage': 0,16:29
kmartin             'storage_protocol': 'iSCSI',16:29
kmartin             'total_capacity_gb': 'unknown',16:29
kmartin             'vendor_name': 'Hewlett-Packard',16:29
kmartin             'volume_backend_name': 'HP3PARISCSIDriver'}16:30
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kmartinsorry thought the was a private msg16:30
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winston-dso I was asking around about how to sort capacity if some back-end reports 'unknown' capacity and we kinda agree to add some other weigher if caapcity weigher cannot apply16:30
winston-dthere are two basic ideas: one is to sort back-ends with allocated bytes, the other is allocated volumes.16:31
winston-dthese two can be easily queried from DB, so it should apply to all back-end.16:32
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winston-dthe allocated-byte weigher and allocated-volume weigher should be used when capacity weigher cannot apply (in the case when any back-end may report 'unknown' capacity)16:32
avishayseems reasonable16:33
winston-dfeel free to raise question to me if you have any question about filter scheduler.16:33
rushiagr1winston-d: isnt it kinda naive to judge on the number of volumes? so a backend with 3 volumes will have weight thrice as much as with 1 volume? (or 1/3rd)16:33
xyang_winston-d: are you using both allocated bytes and allocated volumes, or just one of them?16:34
DuncanT1rushiagr1: That depends on the backend and what you are trying to optimise placement for.16:34
winston-dxyang_: i think just one of them16:34
winston-drushiagr1: yeah, the most straightfoward is to weight be free capacity, unfortunately, not all back-ends are able to report a number16:35
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winston-dmore advantage weighers (such as DuncanT1's idea: weight back-end based on volume activities) may not apply to all back-ends, especailly those simple back-ends, such as lvm16:37
rushiagr1hmmm... I was thinking if we can fall back to how simple scheduler works.. because using number of volumes is like skewing on a slightly unreasonable attribute16:37
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Yadawinston-d : +1 need to be flexible to not lock some drivers cause they can not report some figures on this point16:37
avishayI think the default scheduler should not require anything from drivers at this point16:38
DuncanT1rushiagr1: from def schedule_create_volume(self, context, request_spec, filter_properties):   """Picks a host that is up and has the fewest volumes."""16:38
avishayAllocated bytes seems reasonable16:38
winston-di need to clarify what i am doing is to provide some (at least one) weigher that can be applied to all back-ends, so that we can set that as default weigher in Cinder while we are also providing a few other weighers.16:39
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winston-din production, adimn will have to decide which weigher to use, not just follow the default16:39
rushiagr1DuncanT1: oh, I thought it said "picks a host that is up and is able to fulfil the request". Thanks for pointing out16:39
winston-drushiagr1: that is 'chance' scheduler16:40
DuncanT1rushiagr1: Chance scheduler picks a host that is up at random16:40
rushiagr1oh, okay. My bad16:40
winston-davishay: well, filter scheduler requires some volume status to make decisions.16:40
bswartza scheduler that goes by volume count would effectively result in a round-robin policy, which is at least deterministic, if not smart16:41
avishaywinston-d: volume status?16:41
winston-davishay: volumes stats16:41
winston-danyway, i own you all a document for filter scheduler, sorry about that. i'm working on it, should be ready very soon.16:43
avishaywinston-d: that would be great - thanks!16:43
xyang_winston-d: based on allocated bytes and allocated volumes, can you calculate how much free space is left?16:43
rushiagr1winston-d: would be helpful a lot16:43
xyang_winston-d: doc will be very helpful.16:43
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winston-dxyang_: only if back-end can report total capacity16:44
DuncanT1xyang_: Not if the backend doesn't know how big it is (and there are some that don't, due to compression, de-dupe, etc)16:44
avishayxyang_: except for infinity and unknown16:44
winston-dyup, if it was that simple, back-end driver should be able to do it when report free capacity16:45
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avishayIn my driver I report what the controller says in terms of capacity/free-space, but there is thin provisioning, possibly that right?16:46
winston-doh, by the way, if capacity weigher is used when 'unknown' free capacity is reported, it will be treated the same as 'infinite'.16:46
winston-ddoes that sound reasonable?16:46
DuncanT1I can't think of anything else to do...16:47
winston-davishay: i think it should be ok.16:47
avishaywinston-d: ok, thanks16:47
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avishay+1 for treating inf and unknown the same16:47
kmartinsounds fine with me16:47
xyang_winston-d: doesn't seem to be a better way16:47
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winston-dand please review the re-try patch here:
rushiagr1I think there is a difference between 'infinity' and 'unknown'16:48
avishayrushiagr1: which is larger, infinity or unknown? :P16:49
winston-dyeah, if there's a commonly-accepted answer, i can take it.16:49
avishayrushiagr1: the question is how to sort - they will be the same16:49
rushiagr1there are storage boxes which really can add capacity at a later point of time, bswartz am I correct?16:49
DuncanT1rushiagr1: They are different, but specifically when sorting in order of capacity for the capacity weighter, is there any benefit to treating them differently16:49
xyang_If it is unknown, you have to assume there's space available.  It will fail if out of space.16:50
bswartzrushiagr1: we talked about this last week and I think we have to treat them the same16:50
bswartzI can't figure out any practical difference between them, as far as the scheduler is concerend16:50
rushiagr1hmm... I agree with that16:50
Yadain this case why having two ?16:51
kmartinjust to be clear it's infinite not infinity16:51
avishayat least with winston-d's retry patch if the driver reports incorrectly the volume can be allocated elsewhere16:51
bswartzYada: while the scheduler may not care, something else might want to distinguish between the 2 cases16:51
kmartinat least that was the term we agreed on before16:51
* rushiagr1 remembers the saying 'dont go into specifics so much that you forget the bigger picture'16:51
winston-dbswartz: +116:51
DuncanT1bswartz: +116:52
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xyang_bswartz: +116:52
kmartinbswartz: +116:52
DuncanT1Right, starting to run out of time, so...16:52
DuncanT1#topic reviews16:52
*** openstack changes topic to "reviews (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:52
avishayI submitted a patch for the Storwize/SVC driver - it's ready for review (please take a look!), but keeping it tagged as WIP until the Nova FC patch goes in16:52
DuncanT1There are lots of open reviews, and the number is growing not shrinking16:52
Yadabswartz:  agree but as long as the something else will not generate issues aswell (impact select back-ends .../...)16:53
kmartinavishay: I will try to look at it today16:53
avishaykmartin: thanks!16:53
kmartinseems a few have a number of+1's but still not getting approved16:54
avishayDuncanT1: there are a few patches that have lots of +1s but aren't merged, and some patches that are kind of stale IMO16:54
DuncanT1I'm not sure how to get more attention on specific reviews other than by asking in the cinder channel.16:54
DuncanT1We are running towards being tight for time for feature freeze now, so 1) Please please test & review what you can... The more +1 a patch gets the more confidence core reviews have in the patch 2) Please shout up if you feel a patch is being ignored16:55
DuncanT1avishay: If you think a patch is stale, can you put a note either in a PM or in the cider channel please?16:56
avishayDuncanT1: yep16:56
jgallardhello all, I'm taking a look at the multi-backend patch16:57
DuncanT1jgallard: How are you getting on?16:58
jgallardI'm testing the last patch (v3)16:58
jgallardand it's seems to be OK now (I had an issue with greenthread)16:59
jgallardI will add a comment on the gerrit review16:59
DuncanT1jgallard: Please do chime in on the review with you results, positive or negative16:59
DuncanT1#topic Any other business17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Any other business (Meeting topic: cinder)"17:00
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rushiagr1The work for NAS as a service is into unit test phase17:00
DuncanT1Anybody who has opinions on how AZs work, I'd appreciate feedback on
DuncanT1rushiagr1: Nice. Think you're on track for merge?17:01
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rushiagr1DuncanT1: yes, but seems like not many people have reviewed it17:02
rushiagr1DuncanT1: it would be problematic if someone comes up asking for a major overhaul in the last week17:03
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DuncanT1rushiagr1: Always a risk, sadly. I suggest asking around for reviewers... I will try to have another look too17:04
rushiagr1so I am just assuming people are more or less fine with it17:04
DuncanT1Ok, I think somebody else will want this room now... Thanks everybody17:04
rushiagr1okay. Your review would be helpful17:04
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DuncanT1See you over in #openstack-cinder17:04
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:04
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 13 17:04:54 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:04
openstackMinutes (text):
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johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI17:05
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 13 17:05:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:05
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"17:05
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'17:05
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johnthetubaguyhello everyone17:06
johnthetubaguyI see there are a few things on the wiki page to talk about17:06
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johnthetubaguy#topic agenda17:06
*** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"17:06
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johnthetubaguy#topic blueprints17:07
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"17:07
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johnthetubaguyAnyone got anything to raise about blueprints this week?17:07
johnthetubaguyI have just added a summit session for the XenAPI roadmap for Havana17:07
matelakatIt seems one of my blueprints was delayed17:08
johnthetubaguyyou got a link?17:08
johnthetubaguyhow much is left?17:08
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matelakatNot too much, the main problem, is that I would rather concentrate on the glance integration17:08
matelakatTHat gives us new functionality.17:09
johnthetubaguythat is the XenAPI Cinder driver right?17:09
matelakatI posted a blog entry on xenapinfs - glance integration17:09
johnthetubaguycool, thanks17:09
matelakatIf anyone is interested.17:10
johnthetubaguyThat should help with documentation stuff I guess17:10
matelakatSo I would like to add the generic implementation as well, so it could deal with other image types as well.17:10
matelakatAnyone tried XenAPINFS?17:10
johnthetubaguyI would put the driver refactor above generic glance integration myself, but that is your call17:10
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johnthetubaguyI tried it the one time, but not since you added the glance stuff!17:11
matelakatoh, btw, I set up CI jobs for it.17:11
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johnthetubaguyinternal to Citrix CI right?17:11
matelakaty, But leave it for the qa section17:11
johnthetubaguyfor sure17:11
matelakatOkay, so that's it.17:12
johnthetubaguyany more blueprints on the edge?17:12
matelakatWhat other blueprints do we have pending?17:12
johnthetubaguynot sure I spotted any17:13
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matelakatI just looked at the configdrive, it is marked as completed.17:13
johnthetubaguyis it complete?17:13
matelakatmarked as implemented.17:13
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johnthetubaguyI guess there are edge cases to worry about?17:13
matelakatI haven't tried it myself.17:14
matelakatDo I need the latest cirros for trying that?17:14
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matelakatI see release 0.3.117:14
johnthetubaguynot sure17:15
johnthetubaguydepends on cloud-init version17:15
matelakatI see.17:15
johnthetubaguysmoser should be able to tell you17:15
johnthetubaguy#topic docs17:16
*** openstack changes topic to "docs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"17:16
johnthetubaguyI guess we need to make sure how the doc bugs for XenAPI are going17:16
johnthetubaguyanyone fancy taking a look at some?17:16
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johnthetubaguyI guess XenAPI NFS stuff we need something, not sure how the Cinder docs are doing17:16
matelakatJohn, how much time do we have for the doc -ing?17:17
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johnthetubaguytill release I guess, not sure how it will work this time17:17
matelakatOr those patches are welcome at any time?17:18
johnthetubaguydepends on any translation freezes17:18
matelakatOh, let me look at the schedule.17:18
johnthetubaguyworst case it will just sit in a queue till it opens17:18
johnthetubaguythey are good about backports17:18
johnthetubaguyprevious docs released after the code17:18
johnthetubaguybut I know there was a hope with string freezes to bring that forward17:19
matelakatIt doesn't show the translation freeze.17:19
johnthetubaguyString freeze is to help the docs and translation, but not the docs translation I guess17:19
matelakatOr is it the same?17:19
pvosorry I'm late.17:20
pvochatty today17:20
johnthetubaguyThierry says it best17:20
johnthetubaguypvo: hi!17:21
johnthetubaguyOK so lets go to bugs17:21
johnthetubaguy#topic bugs and QA17:21
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs and QA (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"17:21
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1119268 in devstack "XS devstack fails to install on Quantal" [Undecided,Fix released]17:22
johnthetubaguyso that was in the agenda, following on from last week17:22
matelakatYes, we successfully installed a devstack - quantal combo.17:23
johnthetubaguyI have a private branch looking to simplify the scripts, but not had time to work on that beyond a quick stab17:23
johnthetubaguyon github17:23
johnthetubaguyany other XenAPI bugs people want to discuss17:24
matelakatIs armando around?17:24
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matelakatlive block migration bugs.17:24
pvojohnthetubaguy: not a bug per se, but we're looking to do some "diagnostics" on a vm that a support person would execute.17:24
matelakatBut it's not strictly xenapi, I think.17:24
pvobasically calls that any support person would execute when first investigating an issue17:25
pvowould love some of your thoughts on things we would want to include.17:25
johnthetubaguynova-api extensions or more specific?17:25
pvothere is a 'diagnostics' extension in the nova api17:25
pvobut we're wanting to do some xen specific checks17:25
johnthetubaguygot ya17:25
pvowhich would likely be some xenapi plugins17:25
johnthetubaguythings like Dom0 resource levels, but I guess that is more monitoring17:26
matelakatpvo: is there any blueprint for that, or some other info?17:26
pvoideally we could develop the extensions without having to modify too much nova code17:26
johnthetubaguyright, makes sense17:26
pvomatelakat: not yet. We're just forming thoughts around it now. Not sure if its too late for blueprints in this cycle.17:26
pvocan get it going for the next one though.17:26
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pvoI'll get a bp started and we can add to it.17:27
johnthetubaguythere was a really good session (maybe two summits ago) where devops guys went through the main pain they were seeing17:27
johnthetubaguyit might be good to have a more structured version of that17:27
bobbaSorry guys - I know I'm late!17:28
pvojohnthetubaguy: thats exactly what I want17:28
johnthetubaguythe think that comes to mind are Xen health checks, like resource levels17:28
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johnthetubaguyrabbit queue lenghts are interesting17:28
pvothere are checks on the hypervisor and checks on what the vm is doing.17:28
pvoalso looking for things like noisy neighbors, etc.17:28
johnthetubaguyright, looking for average load on the VMs17:29
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johnthetubaguyor something like that17:29
bobbaXAC can show some useful things like resource levels - we're thinking about exposing them through a supplemental pack17:29
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matelakatI am not sure what Bob meant with the XAC. Let's wait, until he reconnects.17:30
johnthetubaguycool, you back, XAC?17:30
bobbasorry - dunno what happened there guys17:30
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matelakatBob, did you mean the javascript stuff?17:31
johnthetubaguywhat was XAC again?17:31
bobbaXAC, yes, it's a useful little tool to do some very lightweight management of a XS host17:31
pvobobba: where would I find more info on that?17:31
johnthetubaguyoh right, that fella17:31
johnthetubaguytalks straight to XenAPI right?17:31
johnthetubaguyvia javascript17:31
bobbaThat's the one17:31
bobba#link xac17:32
matelakatOkay, so if that's Xapi, it should be easy.17:32
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johnthetubaguyit is certainly a nice visual tool to check the "heath" of the hypervisor17:32
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johnthetubaguymy worry is not stamping on monitoring things17:33
johnthetubaguythey are clearly different though17:33
pvolooks interesting. Would have to figure out how to get it to scale17:33
bobbait's got some charts there17:33
johnthetubaguyit just sits on each hypervisor17:33
bobbadoesn't really scale pvo17:33
bobbabut it's useful to look at individual hosts17:33
bobbaI guess the scalable monitoring would be through ceilometer?17:34
johnthetubaguyI worked with these guys once
johnthetubaguyvery cool collection and visualization17:34
johnthetubaguybut not open source17:34
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matelakatI think we are going too far.17:35
johnthetubaguyanyway, certainly worth some thought17:35
matelakatLet's whiteboard some ideas17:35
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matelakatI guess pvo will register a bp.17:35
pvobobba: scale meaning, if we built it into another tool to do diags on a host17:35
pvomatelakat: planning on doing that this afternoon. Or actually training someone on building BPs. You'll see one, but it likely won't be from me.17:36
matelakatpvo: thanks17:36
johnthetubaguyI guess providing the URL to that host is what you need to integrate, assuming you have access to that network17:36
johnthetubaguyor some kind of proxy17:36
johnthetubaguyanyway, lets not get too distracted I guess17:37
bobbapvo: It just uses javascript, XAPI and the RRD information - so I imagine that would be easily portable.  However, it will only work on remote hosts in Tampa+ because that's when JSON was added17:37
johnthetubaguy#topic Open Discussion17:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"17:37
pvojohnthetubaguy: that and the login credentials. all our hosts are different.17:37
pvobobba: gotcha17:37
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johnthetubaguypvo: right, makes me think back to integrating keystone into XenAPI again17:38
johnthetubaguythe web gui can have a token for limited access, or something, but need thought17:39
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pvojohnthetubaguy: that would be interesting for sure.17:40
johnthetubaguylets jump to stuff we have on the agenda17:40
pvoI think we'd talked about doing ldap as well for xapi.17:40
johnthetubaguyright, I guess that is already there in some capacity with AD integration17:40
johnthetubaguyso we coved XenAPI NFS blog already17:41
bobbaLDAP on xenserver is very possible, but it does need some tuning and a few extra packages installed17:41
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matelakatOh, yeah, ovs.17:42
johnthetubaguytalk of XenServer supplemental pack17:42
johnthetubaguyI guess that review includes extra plugins17:42
johnthetubaguythere is also talk of python26 packages, git, puppet, and others17:42
bobbaYeah - that's right.  So I was thinking, I think that the only reason that devstack pulls via a zipball is because we don't have git in dom0?17:42
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johnthetubaguyEPEL can give you that if you want it for dev17:43
johnthetubaguywe used to do it that way17:43
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johnthetubaguybut moved away for reasons that escape me17:43
bobbaOkay.  So we're planning to produce a supplemental pack that can be installed on a XenServer that will install python 2.6 - I was wondering if pulling in git and simplifying the XenServer devstack setup scripts would be a good option17:43
antonymgit would be great :)17:44
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johnthetubaguyit has to be handy for pulling dev ops scripts too right17:44
bobbaI'm sure!17:44
matelakatGive me an action on looking at that.17:45
bobbaWhat else are people dying for in dom0?  Clearly the best things to consider are ones that don't affect the base XS installation17:45
johnthetubaguyMaybe these can be separate sup packs, since there is not much overhead in the suppack?17:45
matelakat+1 for many small suppacks17:45
johnthetubaguymatelakat: look at what?17:45
zykes-is there plans to land Ceilometer support for XenServer?17:46
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antonymsmall supp packs would work, then you could have a chef and a puppet pack seperated if needed17:46
matelakatlook at the suppack creation, and how hard it is. So on the next meeting, I could show some progress.17:46
johnthetubaguyantonym: you read my mind17:46
bobbaCeilometer for XenServer is being looked at for Grizzly.  I haven't caught up with rfy17:46
bobbasorry! premature-enter pressing17:46
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bobbayjing5 (I think, can't quite remember his IRC nick) was looking at Ceilometer for XenServer.17:47
johnthetubaguyyep someone form intel was taking a look, not sure if sandy was too17:47
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johnthetubaguy#action matelakat to look at suppack for git, python26 (with pip), puppet17:48
johnthetubaguysupplimental pack is an rpm + metadata, there is a public SDK with tools to build them17:48
johnthetubaguythere are some old build scripts that could help on git hub in the geppetto bits I think17:48
pvozykes-: yes, we're working on Ceilometer and Xen support at RAX17:48
bobbaActually part of the "DDK" - driver development disk17:49
johnthetubaguythats the name, cheers17:49
zykes-oh ! :)17:49
pvoit may be further out for fully supported however,17:49
matelakatOkay, I'll look at it, I just wanted a record of that intention.17:49
bobbadriver development __kit__17:49
pvosandywalsh is working on that17:49
matelakatpvo: on the suppack packaging?17:50
johnthetubaguyceilometer I think17:50
pvomatelakat: no, sorry. on the ceilometer xenserver support.17:50
johnthetubaguycool, any more on those bits?17:50
johnthetubaguylooks promising on python26 et al17:50
johnthetubaguyofficial stuff will look good17:51
zykes-python what johnthetubaguy ?17:51
johnthetubaguyOK, next item is "Getting images suitable for use in XenServer: Ideal source, format and mechanism for uploading."17:51
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johnthetubaguyzykes: supplemental pack that contains python26 to run in Dom017:51
zykes-ok :)17:51
bobbayeah - I raised that one17:51
johnthetubaguymate had a blog post on some fun ways to do some of this17:52
johnthetubaguybut the docs are very lacking17:52
bobbaThere's one image (ubuntu lucid) that I know about - I think someone at RAX generated that17:52
matelakatSo we are using this image here: #link
johnthetubaguyparticularly all the semi-secret glance flags17:52
matelakatfor testing.17:52
bobbaI'm concerned that the blog post is a little too difficult for mainstream really17:53
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bobbaI noticed that Canonical(?) are hosting a whole bunch of qcow2 images for openstack consumption17:53
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bobbaI wondered if there is any way we can capitalise on those, or have VHD images that we can use in a different way17:53
johnthetubaguythere was a chat at the summit about that, or prehaps the ubuntu conference17:53
matelakatIs there any way to use those qcow images with XenServer?17:54
johnthetubaguyMike McClurg had contacts with Ubuntu about their cloud images and getting VHD ones17:54
johnthetubaguyI know comstud has some code for doing raw->vhd using vhd util17:54
bobbaoh does he17:54
johnthetubaguybasically there is no way for ubuntu to generate xenserver "happy" vhd files currently17:54
bobbaI can get in touch with Mike and see what the score is with Canonical17:54
bobbayeah - we patch VHD util for performance reasons17:55
bobbathe original VHD spec doesn't do everything we'd want17:55
johnthetubaguyblock alignment I guess, the stuff added to VHDX17:55
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johnthetubaguyyep, its basically giving people some of these tools that will help things along17:55
matelakatJohn, do you know about any tricks to get qcow working on XS?17:56
johnthetubaguyI know comstud was thinking about linking vhdutil from qemu-img convert17:56
johnthetubaguyerm, not actually tried, it involves hacking the SM scripts I think17:56
johnthetubaguywhich are python at least17:56
bobbait'd be nice to get the vhdutil from XS upstream into qemu17:57
matelakatcould you mail me a contact person to discuss it with?17:57
johnthetubaguyyou can do it with XL underneath, but there is no blk back driver or something17:57
johnthetubaguystorage architect you want17:57
johnthetubaguykeith petley17:57
johnthetubaguy(+ spelling corrections)17:58
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johnthetubaguyI think you can do raw by adding raw files and some small hacks17:58
johnthetubaguywhich is another option17:58
johnthetubaguyBobBall: what was your exact question17:59
johnthetubaguyaround images?17:59
johnthetubaguybobba: I mean17:59
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bobbaI'm not sure17:59
bobbaI think a simpler way, whatever that way is, would be better17:59
bobbafor example us using qcow2 images, or automatically converting on upload or something like that18:00
johnthetubaguyI guess updaing horizon to support Xen related upload options would help18:00
johnthetubaguymaybe scritps that wrap the glance cli that add the appropriate extra keys18:00
johnthetubaguyor glance cli extensions18:00
johnthetubaguyah, ok18:01
johnthetubaguyyou mean image formats18:01
johnthetubaguyI always assume people would prep on the XenServer and export the vhd18:01
johnthetubaguywe are out of time, so we should wrap up18:01
matelakatI think we could support other type of images easily - if we use qemu-img convert to pipe the bytes to the attached vdi.18:01
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bobbaI think that's fine for small or huge deployments - but I guess some people want to consume other images - hence the market for the ubuntu qcow2 ones?18:02
johnthetubaguyOK, this goes back to having a glance "convert" kind of function, possible using a conversion worker18:02
matelakatBut that's only one direction.18:02
johnthetubaguythen glance supporting multiple disk types against a single image "parent" maybe18:02
bobbaI've had a couple of guys asking me directly for XS images - the qcow2 ones are easily linked from OS documentation at the moment18:02
bobbajust a thought :)18:02
johnthetubaguyyou can use the three part raw amazon image directly though I think18:03
bobbaoh yes that's true18:03
johnthetubaguycould be wrong on that one, maybe you need tools18:03
bobbathe ami images?18:03
johnthetubaguywe are out of time18:03
bobbaI did that today! :)18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:04
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 13 18:04:21 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:04
openstackMinutes (text):
matelakatOkay, I guess that's the end.18:04
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pvowill be adding more throughout today18:04
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matelakatpvo: thanks!18:04
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pvoplease add whatever you think would help18:05
johnthetubaguylooks good18:05
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* johnthetubaguy puts on thinking cap18:05
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sdake#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 13 20:00:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is sdake. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:00
sdakehidey ho20:00
sdake#topic rollcall20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
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sdakesdake here20:00
jpeelerjpeeler here20:00
* nijaba lurks while preping the ceilometer meeting20:00
sdakezaneb and shardy wont make it20:00
sdakelets go ahead and get started20:01
sdake#topic blueprint review20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprint review (Meeting topic: heat)"20:01
sdakestevebaker you have quite a few blueprints outstanding - need any help?20:01
stevebakerI'm getting traction on them now20:01
stevebakervpc, subnet, networkinterface done20:02
stevebakerworking on internet gateway now, will tackle route stuff last20:02
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SpamapS ... is this really grizzly critical?20:02
sdakei spoke with shardy about said he is about 1 week out20:02
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sdakespamaps we descoped that from grizzly20:03
stevebakershould I set the goal to no value?20:03
SpamapSah its still set as Series goal: grizzly20:03
sdakeya i just changed that20:04
SpamapSperhaps its time to setup havana?20:04
sdakei think zane didn't push all the right buttons20:04
sdakeyes, going to setup havana so we can start targeting20:04
stevebakerhe probably only unset the milestone20:04
sdakespoke with shardy about he siad one week20:05
sdakejust so folks know, the schedule is here:20:05
sdakeFeature freeze is in 7 days20:06
sdakethat means blueprints not finished by then will be kicked to havana20:06
sdakethis most likely affects stevebaker20:06
sdakeon that schedule the week of the 28th and 7th are pure bug fix and test cycle days20:07
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SpamapS .. really impressive set of features :)20:07
sdakethen we have 3 RCs20:07
stevebakerI see new resources as low risk commits, if they're broken, don't use them ;)20:07
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sdakeya, however, we should follow the os process as much as possible20:07
sdakeif you need some aide with them stevebaker now time to ask ;)20:07
stevebakeryeah, i know20:07
stevebakerI could easily delegate some stuff20:08
sdakeasalkeld interested in taking one?20:08
sdakeand I'll take one20:08
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asalkeldI could, but just fighting with my setup atm20:08
asalkeldas soon as it is working...20:09
sdakeya im in same boat actually - devstack grumpy20:09
stevebakeryou'll need a working quantum setup20:09
asalkeldalso need to get v2 api into ceilometerclient20:09
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stevebakerchances are I'll get it all in20:09
sdakeok stevebaker let me try to get quantum rolling - i'll ping you in heat channel if I can take one off your plate so you have more time20:09
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stevebakerok, ta20:09
sdakeno guarantees though since i reloaded my ws with f18 my life has been a mess ;)20:10
sdake#topic incubation review20:10
*** openstack changes topic to "incubation review (Meeting topic: heat)"20:10
stevebakerone thing that would help is prompt code reviews20:10
sdakewe went through the first step of incubation review Tuesday20:10
sdakewhich is "why we think we are ready"20:10
asalkeldnice job with that sdake20:10
sdakeFolks can read the logs if they missed the meeting at 2000 UTC but i think it went pretty well overall20:10
sdakenext step is for the tc to review our architectural stability20:11
sdakewe also had a review of how well we fit into the os dev model - which got good reviews20:11
sdakeso nice work everyone ;)20:11
sdakeany questions?20:12
sdakethanks asalkeld20:12
sdake#topic open items20:12
*** openstack changes topic to "open items (Meeting topic: heat)"20:12
asalkeldnext step is people look at the code?20:12
sdakeso short meeting20:12
sdakeasalkeld i am not entirely clear on that20:12
sdakeI would expect so - or that they have already had a brief look20:13
SpamapSI have two questions..20:13
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SpamapS1) blueprints for havana. I've been setting them up.. should we propose them by next meeting?20:13
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SpamapS2) we're developing a set of OpenStack Heat templates, as in, templates specifically for deploying OpenStack using Heat...20:14
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sdakeI think a good time to review blueprints would be weeks of the 14th, 21st and 28th :
stevebakerI don't see why blueprints can't be proposed throughout the H cycle for H development20:14
sdakeie: during the rc cycle20:14
SpamapSI think they should be hosted in heat's tree... but they're a bit less pragmatic than the templates in /templates20:14
stevebakerwe need a separate repo of heat templates, curated into examples, useful things, etc20:15
sdakestevebaker i think some OS projects have different take on this - as we are just in incubation I'd like to follow the processes outlined but even in this cycle we added stuff after the cycle started20:15
SpamapSOk so that sounds like a set of bugs to tackle. :)20:15
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SpamapSblueprints post-summit are fine. The reason they might be frowned upon is if they are major features which the community at large may want to weigh in on.. hence the summit.20:15
sdakespamaps that could go in the main repo assuming the base functionality was there20:16
SpamapSsdake: I will go ahead and put them together and propose to add them to /templates .. and we can worry about reorganizing as a larger effort.20:16
asalkeldI thought it was bp that needed discussion, have talks at summit20:16
stevebakerCan we do what puppet/chef do with their modules/recipes? I think they have a root repo, and people clone that and add their own stuff20:16
asalkeld+1 stevebaker20:17
sdakeya - we have had some talk of a separate master repo for all templates20:17
sdakethis may make sense for H, although I'd rather not rock the boat with G much at this point in the codebase20:17
sdakeeven if it is only moving templates around20:17
SpamapSI will create a BP20:18
SpamapS"template organization"20:18
stevebakerSpamapS: as long as its a public repo, it probably doesn't matter where your templates are for now20:18
sdakebtw stevebaker feel free to move the cfntools repo into wherever you were planning to move it20:18
SpamapSwe can come up with some ideas and have a short session at the summit20:18
sdakesounds good spamaps20:18
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sdakef18 + oz f18 guests is broke20:18
SpamapSstevebaker: right, the desire is for there to be a single place for collaborators on the "deploy openstack using heat" effort.20:18
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stevebakersdake, heat-cfntools is already there, the old ones need to be expunged from heat-jeos though20:19
sdakeya - i think you mentioned packaging in pypi or something20:19
sdakenot sure only so many brain cells ;)20:19
asalkeldthe cfntools are also out of sync too20:19
stevebakerits already getting released to pypi20:19
jpeeleri just synced heat-cfntools, so now would be a good time20:19
sdakeyes, jpeeler has been pushing stuff in20:19
asalkeldwell done jpeeler20:19
stevebakerjpeeler: sweet, thanks20:20
sdake#action review blueprints for havana week of 14th, 21st ,28th20:20
sdakeok anything else?20:20
SpamapS btw20:20
* SpamapS is done20:20
sdakeok thanks guys - 1 week left in cycle lets get er done - then 2 weeks of intensive test+bugfix then 3 weeks of rc bugfix20:21
sdakealmost done with g ;)20:21
stevebakerIts worth mentioning to non-core developers, if you do enough contributions and reviews then you may be nominated for core20:21
sdakejust like any other OS project ;)20:22
stevebaker... and when that happens we should probably remove non-reviewing core members out until they become active again20:22
asalkeldshould define that20:22
asalkeldbut +120:22
asalkeldlike query review < 10 reviews a month and you  are out20:23
sdakeneeds more discussion but would rather focus on g for time being - perhaps we can take that up at summit or during 14th-28th20:23
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sdakeI tend to have a viewpoint of "people who have put in their time" model20:23
asalkeldsure, I just need my setup working!20:23
SpamapSsummit is definitely a good time to have a few nominations already stacked up so you can have face to face with potential core devs20:23
sdakehate to boot people out of core because some other activity taking up their time for a cycle20:24
SpamapSmake sure they won't go mad with power or try to control you with mind control20:24
asalkeldI woundn't be stressed20:24
stevebakeractually, I'm just trying to encourage more reviews ;)20:24
asalkeldget back into it and get it back20:24
SpamapS  ... suggestion: -1 this guy20:25
sdakeprobably need a good look at what other projects do as well on this point20:25
sdakeok anything else?20:25
* imbrandon tried to mind control SpamapS once ... that did not end well for me :) 20:25
asalkeldseems like we done20:26
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"20:26
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 13 20:26:17 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:26
openstackMinutes (text):
SpamapSsdake: ty!20:26
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nijaba#startmeeting Ceilometer21:00
nijaba#meetingtopic Ceilometer21:00
nijaba#chair nijaba21:00
nijabaATTENTION: please keep discussion focused on topic until we reach the open discussion topic21:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 13 21:00:48 2013 UTC.  The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:00
openstackCurrent chairs: nijaba21:00
nijabaHello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting?21:00
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* dragondm waves21:01
nijabanice to see everyone!21:01
nijaba#topic actions from previous meeting21:01
nijaba#topic dhellman to update documentation based on
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellman to update documentation based on (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:01
nijabadhellmann: update?21:02
dhellmannno work on that, sorry21:02
dhellmannrepeat for next week21:02
dhellmann#action dhellmann to update documentation based on
nijaba#topic eglynn, jd, sandywalsh, spn, nijaba, dhellmann to help on
nijaba#info done21:02
nijabaThere is a topic for the graduation process21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "eglynn, jd, sandywalsh, spn, nijaba, dhellmann to help on (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:02
nijaba#topic nijaba to write an email explaining how to propose a topic for the H summit21:02
nijaba#info done21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "nijaba to write an email explaining how to propose a topic for the H summit (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:03
nijabaWe do need some clarification between the session tool and the bp process though.  There is a topic for that too21:03
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nijabathat's it for last week's actions21:03
nijaba#topic G3 blueprints review21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "G3 blueprints review (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:03
nijabaanything that should be updated in the bp status?  We have one week left before feature freeze!21:04
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asalkeldsorry late21:04
dhellmannI've been working on the notification subscription api for oslo21:04
* jd__ all green21:05
asalkeldnijaba, I need to add v2 support to the client21:05
dhellmannit's not far enough along to submit there, but I'm not blocked on anything other than the number of hours in  a day21:05
nijabadhellmann: yep, I saw that.  I updated the status of the bp to "good progress"21:05
eglynnI'll slot the qpid testing in early next week, so will be done for g321:05
dragondmdhellmann: nice.21:05
nijabaeglynn: great!21:05
jd__nijaba: if bps are Implemented now but not targetting anything in Grizzly, should we set a target or milestone to something to indicate the release it's implemented in?21:05
nijabajd__: please, retarget indeed!21:06
dhellmannjd__: that seems like a good idea21:06
jd__asalkeld: I've started that I think there's a review for that21:06
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jd__nijaba, dhellmann ok, i'll have some work then :-] I think i've a few!21:06
nijabajd__: this is what I call good surprises :)21:06
* dhellmann notes that jd__ has been a coding machine lately21:07
asalkeldwell done jd21:07
jd__thanks guys21:07
nijabaanything else on that topic?21:07
nijabaguess not...21:08
nijaba#Graduating from incubation update21:08
dhellmannwell, any update on
nijabameeting one of 3 or 4 went well I think. Thanks to everyone's contribution21:08
nijabaIt was focused on why we think we are ready.21:08
dhellmann#topic Graduating from incubation update21:09
dhellmannhmm, guess I can't tell the bot what to do21:09
nijabadhellmann: thanks :)21:09
nijaba#topic Graduating from incubation update21:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Graduating from incubation update (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:09
eglynnyeah I think it went relatively well21:09
eglynn(so far ...)21:09
nijabaNext week we'll be discussing our architecture stability.  Same time, same place.  Unfortunately, I have another commitment that evening, so I would appreciate if someone else could take the lead.  Volunteer?21:09
eglynnwill all 3/4 meeting be considering Heat and Ceilo in parallel?21:10
dhellmannare the logs for that meeting available?21:10
nijabaI think the prep work is all done21:10
eglynnI can do it21:10
jd__i'll be there too21:10
dhellmannI should be able to attend, too21:10
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eglynndhellmann ^^^ logs for the last meeting21:11
dhellmannTuesdays are turning into "go to the doctor" days, so I may be a little late next week21:11
nijabaeglynn: yep21:11
* nijaba 's connection dropped for a while, sorry21:12
eglynndhellmann, jd__: lets huddle before next week's TC meeting to talk startegy, do any prep required etc.21:12
jd__eglynn: sounds like a good plan!21:12
nijabathanks to the volunteers21:12
dhellmanneglynn: yes, definitely -- Monday?21:12
asalkeldnot a good time for me21:12
nijabaeglynn: the prep on the arch is already started on the wiki page21:13
eglynndhellmann: Monday works for me21:13
eglynnnijaba: cool21:13
jd__Monday works for me too21:13
dhellmanneglynn: maybe we should try to pick a time when we can get asalkeld's input, too, if he won't be able to attend Tuesday21:13
eglynngreat idea21:13
nijabaor we could continue to use the wiki as an async tool to put our brains together?21:14
dhellmannnijaba: yeah, that, too21:14
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eglynnlets do a short huddle as well, say Monday at this timeslot?21:15
jd__fine with me21:15
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dhellmanneglynn: ok21:15
nijabaeglynn: +1, I'll do my best to join21:15
dhellmanneglynn: in our metering room (unless this room is available?)21:16
nijaba#info prep meeting for next tc meeting monday at 21UTC in #openstack-metering21:16
eglynnsounds like a plan21:16
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nijabawe do not need a bot, so our chan seems fine21:17
dhellmannsounds good21:17
jd__like we would wander on IRC without finding each others :)21:17
nijabaok, let's move on21:17
nijabajd__:  hehe21:17
nijaba#topic Should we deprecate the V1 API? - dhellmann21:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Should we deprecate the V1 API? - dhellmann (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:17
dhellmannjd__: packets passing in the night21:17
dhellmannah, yes21:18
nijabadhellmann: go ahead and defend your proposal!21:18
jd__this is a bold topic21:18
eglynndeprecate == continue to support for 1 more release cycle?21:18
dhellmannyes, start the process of deprecation21:18
jd__I am not confortable doing that for G21:18
dhellmannthe v2 api is much better, and if it isn't complete yet it will be very early in h21:18
jd__v2 isn't really finished yet21:18
dhellmannso I think *after H* we should drop v121:19
eglynndoes anyone recall the mechanics of the nova v1 API deprecation?21:19
jd__releasing G with "you can use v1 but it's deprecated, so use v2 but it's not finished" isn't really friendly21:19
dhellmannor at least start the process of dropping it, following whatever the usual support path is21:19
eglynn(before my time)21:19
* eglynn wondering how long a released API should be kept around for ...21:19
nijabaWe have multiple people starting to dev for v1.  I have a hard time convincing them to use the api rather than hitting the db directly. if we deprecate the api, there is no point in using the api at all21:19
dhellmannjd__: yep, that's why I'm suggesting for with or after h21:19
sandywalshI think dropping it before incubation ends might be the only factor there :)21:20
jd__dhellmann: you suggest deprecate for H or remove for H?21:20
dhellmannjd__: deprecating21:20
dhellmannso it would come out in, what, I or J? I'm not sure of the rules.21:20
jd__dhellmann: in that case I agree :)21:20
nijabaI am personally NOT in favor of removing it before J at least21:20
eglynnmake a clear statement its on the deprecation path, but keep support in place for H, right?21:20
jd__nijaba: I think that's acceptable21:21
dhellmannbasically, I want to start the process as part of the plans for H, but I don't want to consume an entire summit session to have the conversation about it21:21
sandywalshdhellmann, seems reasonable ... is it a fork-lift change? (rewrite of client usage required)?21:21
nijabasandywalsh: yes :(21:21
dhellmannsandywalsh: good question, I'm not sure. I suspect so, but we might be able to put a shim into the client to ease the transition.21:21
jd__sandywalsh: yes, but it isn't like a big conceptual change neither21:21
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jd__we just simplified things, etc, it's not like we were changing paradigm(s) entirely21:22
dhellmannthis isn't something we need to decide during this meeting, I just wanted to start people thinking about it.21:22
jd__ack :)21:22
dhellmannLike I said, I don't think we need a summit session on the subject, but it's something to be deciding as we go into H.21:22
eglynnmy main concern is that we go to pains to follow "best community practice" on the deprecation21:22
nijababut still, the point of having people use an API is to shield them from underlying changes.  I do not see why we could not maintain v1 andv221:22
eglynn(so that it doesn';t become an issue in the graduation assessment ...)21:22
dhellmanneglynn: yes, absolutely (I just don't know what those are, yet.)21:22
asalkeldperhaps a statement in the dosc would be good21:22
sandywalshthat's what nova did ... the keystone default endpoint just changed to /v221:22
jd__nijaba: we probably can for I, maybe after it'd be a burden21:23
sandywalsh /v1 still works, but it's essentially frozen21:23
dhellmannnijaba: the problem is maintaining support for both in the storage drivers, if we have to change the storage formats21:23
eglynndhellmann: me neither, anyone familiar with how the nova v1 API deprecation was handled?21:23
sandywalsheglynn, ^21:23
dhellmannsandywalsh: so the nova v1 api is still there?21:23
sandywalshit was several milestones later that it was physically removed21:24
* sandywalsh double checks it *was* actually removed21:24
eglynnsandywalsh: a-ha, I didn't realize that ... thanks for the info21:24
asalkelddhellmann, re the db, you optimise for the new api and just make the old api function21:24
asalkeldso make the old api ugly, not the new api21:25
dhellmannasalkeld: makes sense21:25
nijabaasalkeld: that would be somewhat more acceptable21:25
sandywalshnova v1 is now physically removed21:25
dhellmannFTR, I'm OK with keeping it, too, if we decide we want to go that route. I just wanted to bring it up, since v2 is nearing feature-completeness21:25
nealphwould like to have time with v2 to kick the tires and provide feedback while v1 is still functional...21:26
dhellmannhow about if I table this until after the ODS?21:26
eglynnanother datapoint is how the glance v1/v2 API transition is being handled ... using config options to selectively enable/disable the two APIs independently21:26
nijabaover time21:26
eglynndhellmann: that might be wise21:26
asalkeldwhat are the missing gaps in the v2 api?21:26
asalkeldpost api21:26
nijabadhellmann: yes please!21:26
dhellmann#info motion tabled21:27
dhellmannasalkeld: I need to be able to query against projects that have updates21:27
nijaba #topic We need more people doing active code reviews. - dhellmann21:27
sandywalshmy bad ... /v1.1 now maps to /v221:27
* eglynn hangs head in shame21:27
dhellmannwe have, I think, 15 pending changesets21:27
nijabaI think the plea is clear21:27
eglynn(about lack of time fore reviewing ...)21:27
dhellmannso either jd__ needs to slow down, or we need to pick up the pace on reviews21:27
sandywalshdhellmann, I'll try and get some more done21:27
* jd__ can't slow down21:28
eglynnat one point nova had this concept of a rotating "review day"21:28
nijabait does not help that it is a holliday week in china21:28
asalkeldit's jd__ fault he works too fast21:28
jd__but i'll be on vacation in a few weeks ;)21:28
sandywalshjd__, I'm usually on early (nova scotia time) ... ping me if you have something you need looked at urgently. Can't help on the +2's though :)21:28
eglynnso one core reviewer was the designated primary each working day21:28
nijabaI could do some reviews...  but I tried to get away from that as we we getting more core devs21:28
dhellmanneglynn: that's an interesting idea21:28
eglynnand committed to dedicating a significant of their time to the backlog21:29
jd__sandywalsh: well +1 helps too :)21:29
nijabafeel free to ping me if I can help21:29
sandywalsheglynn, we dropped core review days in nova. It was restrictive21:29
eglynnsandywalsh: k21:29
dhellmannis everyone subscribed to the ceilometer updates from gerrit, so you're notified of new changes automatically?21:29
jd__honestly, compare to other projects I'm not sure we are that slow21:29
* eglynn thought it might have legs with a smaller group of core devs ...21:29
jd__I've much more trouble getting patches approved on keystoneclient for example…21:30
dhellmannjd__: feel free to add me as a reviewer to anything, and I'll look at it21:30
jd__to the point some patches have +1 and +2 and expire…21:30
jd__dhellmann: thanks :)21:30
nijabajd__: same here21:30
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* jd__ is going to spam dhellmann and nijaba 21:31
* dhellmann knows how to set up mail filters21:31
eglynnon glance, direct harassment on IRC to scare up reviewers is common, and isn't resented too much ...21:31
jd__ is really useful for Ceilometer, and still waiting like, for ever21:31
* dhellmann makes a note to look at that tomorrow morning21:32
nijabaI'll do that one today then21:32
sandywalsheglynn, +1, that's a best practice :)21:32
dhellmannanyway, if you're a reviewer, please take a look at our current backlog when you have time21:32
jd__nijaba, dhellmann I've just added you to 4 or 5 reviews on keystoneclient :)21:32
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nijabajd__: ah, that 's in keystone, I won't help much there21:32
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dhellmannI'm probably going to be adjusting my schedule to mostly do reviews on thursdays, with less emphasis the rest of the week21:32
nijabaor not as much21:33
jd__nijaba: nevermind :)21:33
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nijabaanything else on that topic?21:33
nijaba#topic Ceilometer summit session process21:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Ceilometer summit session process (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:34
nijabaSo, I did sent my email about how to propose a bp for discussion at the summit21:34
nijabattx replied to my email saying we could use the summit tool too21:34
nijabaI personally think that we should use a mix of both, and propose that for any session proposing a technical change or addition, a bp MUST be linked so that we have a place to prepare the session.  What do you guys think?21:34
jd__sounds good +121:34
nealphis the summit tool gated on the Feb-15th deadline?21:35
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sandywalshI'm still a little confused how best for us all to meet and pound out the topics like metadata and aggregation ... informal or separate session talks?21:35
nijabaok, so the reviewer of summit.o.c will have the role to enforce that21:35
nijabanealph: no21:35
nijabasandywalsh: separate sessions21:36
sandywalshnijaba, cool ... and will you guys be registering those?21:36
asalkeldsandywalsh, last time we had one day for ceilometer21:36
nijabanealph: we have until the week before the summit to adjust the schedule I think21:36
* sandywalsh doesn't want to cause duplication21:36
asalkeldthen the rest of the days to meet up21:36
asalkeldwe could do both21:36
nijabasandywalsh: I am for sure a reviewer at this time.  next ptl will be too21:36
dhellmannsandywalsh: in the past, I've had PTLs propose merging sessions to avoid dupes21:37
* dhellmann would rather merge dupes than miss an important topic21:37
nijabadhellmann: same here21:37
nealph*working bp's for discussions21:37
sandywalshok, I'll submit and we can merge if needed21:37
nijabasandywalsh: thanks21:37
sandywalshnealph, +121:37
dhellmanncan I also suggest that folks email the list with topics they propose, for those of us who are not reviewers and not seeing email notifications from the summit planning tool?21:37
sandywalshgood idea21:38
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nijaba#agreed session should link to bp if a change is proposed21:38
dhellmannthat will also give us a chance to subscribe to the blueprints, wiki pages, etc.21:38
asalkeldeglynn, are you going to talk about synaps stuff?21:38
asalkeldarch etc..21:38
eglynnasalkeld: yep, I'm planning to propose21:38
eglynnat least one session21:39
asalkeldnijaba, do we have any input on timing21:39
eglynnjust to clarify the Feb-15th deadline mentioned above21:39
eglynnthat's for the conference track only, right?21:39
asalkeldlast year we had ceilometer and heat at the same time21:39
* dhellmann has to drop off in a few minutes21:39
* eglynn too21:39
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* dhellmann bbiab21:40
nijabaasalkeld: we should have our own rooms this year21:40
nijabaasalkeld: and as much time as we ask for21:41
nijabawithing the summit dates, of course21:41
asalkeldhopefully not overlapping21:41
eglynnnijaba: different days would be good too21:41
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nijabaasalkeld: ack21:41
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nijabaanything else for this topic?21:42
nijaba #topic Open discussion21:42
dragondmsounds fine.21:42
nijabais the bot dead, or is it my connexion?21:43
jd__nijaba: you put a space in front of #topic21:43
nijaba#topic Open discussion21:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"21:43
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jd__it's picky21:43
nijabajd__: thanks21:43
sandywalshso, I've spent the last two days working on a summary report in StackTach (we needed internally) ... I'd like for people to think about how we could get such a report from CM :)21:43
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sandywalsh(I'll be thinking about it too :)21:44
sandywalshit's the PHB report21:45
nijabajd__: my connection is so bad, can I #chair you for the end of the meeting?21:45
jd__nijaba: sure21:46
eglynnsandywalsh: p90 +/- 5% == the range p85..p95?21:46
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nijaba#chair jd__21:46
openstackCurrent chairs: jd__ nijaba21:46
sandywalsheglynn, p9021:46
nijabajd__: thanks21:46
eglynnsandywalsh: can you explain the "(+/-5.0% cut)"21:46
sandywalsheglynn, sorry lowest 5% and top 5% dropped21:46
sandywalsh5% of the sorted populated21:47
eglynnsandywalsh: the lowest & highest 5% in the 90th percentile bucket, or overall?21:47
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asalkeldso this doesn't seem tooo far from the statistics query we have21:48
sandywalsheglynn, overall21:48
sandywalshasalkeld, I'd love to see how you generate it ... this was quite a treat21:48
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sandywalsh(and failures can be operations that took too long)21:49
asalkeldwell there is some missing bits, we don't have all the notification info atm21:49
sandywalsh(that's the whole report :)21:50
asalkeldMin* |   Max* |  Avg* | Requests21:50
jd__yes, that'd be new meters to add21:50
asalkeldwe have that ^21:50
sandywalshasalkeld, how, request_id isn't tracked is it?21:50
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asalkelddon't think so21:51
asalkeldbut our query api so quite powerful21:51
sandywalshyou need that to compute duration21:51
asalkeldsomething like groupby request_id21:52
sandywalshanyway ... something to consider21:52
jd__anything else before I close the meeting?21:52
asalkeldlater guys21:53
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nijabathanks everyone!21:53
jd__thanks guys21:53
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"21:54
eglynnsee y'all, I'll be offline for at least tmrw, possibly Friday too ...21:54
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 13 21:54:02 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:54
openstackMinutes (text):
jd__eglynn: ok :)21:54
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