Wednesday, 2013-02-20

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jgriffith#start meeting cinder16:01
jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 20 16:01:43 2013 UTC.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:01
jgriffithwow... full house this am16:02
jgriffithalright, I suspect a busy meeting so let's get at it16:02
jgriffith#topic Shared Storage service updates16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Shared Storage service updates (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:02
jgriffithbswartz: You're up16:02
bswartzOkay, all of the code has been in review for the last several days16:03
bswartzthere is one piece not in though -- the LVM drivers16:03
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bswartzthere were some changes requested during the initial review last week16:03
bswartzand we won't be able to complete those (with unit test coverage) by today16:03
bswartzso we're asking that the new service be accepted with NetApp drivers only, and that the LVM drivers be granted an extension until next week16:04
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kmartinI think that would be acceptable16:05
bswartzI want to emphasize that complete LVM drivers were part of the original submission, and the changes being done are to respond to feedback16:05
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jgriffithanyone else have any input here?16:06
kmartinI believe OpenStack has an exception process, if the core members are okay with it16:06
jgriffithkmartin: yes however I have some info around that16:06
winston-d_so what drivers can be used as Share back-end, beside NetApp and LVM?16:06
bswartzthose are the only ones that exist today16:07
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jgriffithbswartz: actually NetApp is the only one that exists16:07
bswartzwe hope other vendors with NAS-capable storage backends will write sharded storage drivers too16:07
jgriffithbswartz: It doesn't seem you've received much support on this so far16:07
winston-d_do other vendors plan to do so?16:07
winston-d_JM1: ?16:08
winston-d_xyang_: ?16:08
xyang_winston-d: we are thinking about it too16:08
bswartzI have not heard from any other vendors yet -- we have been focused on the getting the design implemented16:08
bswartzthe push for drivers will come next16:08
jgriffithwho's going to make that push?16:08
bswartzwe will16:08
JM1sorry I didn't follow the shared storage discussion16:08
bswartzNetApp plans to be very involved in the ongoing maintenance of the cinder-share stuff16:09
JM1not sure this fits with our current model, but I need to check16:09
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thingeebswartz: just curious, but if you haven't been communicating with other vendors, is the design pretty general for others to come in?16:09
rushiagrJM1: and everybody else:
DuncanT1I'm also wondering how much the design will need to change to accommodate other vendors?16:09
bswartzyes, the design is very generic -- similar to how generic the blocks interface is16:09
JM1rushiagr: ah ok, that's what it's about16:09
bswartzrushiagr: thx16:10
JM1so yes, it would make much sense for us to integrate here, but honestly I never quite understood the use case for this16:10
DuncanT1What about the actual plumbing and making it work - network security and the likes? I'm still worried that I've seen no designs for that side16:10
bswartzeharney: you asked for the changes to the CIFS LVM driver -- do you have any feelings about delivering it after the G3 deadline?16:10
winston-d_JM1: yes, that's my feeling 'don't understand the use case' too16:10
thingeebswartz: I do apologize on my part, but I'm a bit behind on the review. I'd say 1/3 way done. rushiagr, would you be available today in case I have comments on the review?16:11
bswartzDuncanT1: those are things we will address in Havana, there are still many use cases enabled by the existing code16:11
rushiagrthingee: sure16:11
jgriffithbswartz: so the way I see it then it's not ready until Havana16:11
eharneybswartz: i don't really have much of an opinion on that16:11
DuncanT1jgriffith: +116:11
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bswartzjgriffith: for every use case that doesn't invovle VLANs, there is no network plumbing required16:11
eharneyI will say that i also find myself not really understanding the use cases and intent of this service in general16:12
guitarzanis this a dumb question: nova integration?16:12
jgriffithguitarzan: nope, not at all16:12
bswartzguitarzan: there's not a lot to be done with nova -- with NAS, the instances can talk directly to the storage backend over CIFS/NFS16:12
DuncanT1bswartz: I don't think there are many 'real' installations that have VMs and infrastructure networks as a flat, un-protected space?16:12
jgriffithbswartz: which brings me back to the question of why they need a service then?16:13
kmartinbswartz:  FWIW, we announce the plans for fibre channel support at the Folsom summit and rallied interested compaines(5 to 6) and have been meeting with them weekly ever since for a common solution that will meet everyone needs16:13
bswartzDuncanT1: in public clouds no, but in private clouds yes16:13
guitarzanbswartz: interesting... we don't allow guests access to our storage network directly16:13
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DuncanT1bswartz: I suspect any such design is fragile at best. All of the packaged private clouds I've seen (which is far from all of them) use network isolation16:14
dacharyas a cinder user I would be frustrated to see a feature in grizzly that is only available with a proprietary technology and no free software alternative.16:14
bswartzdachary: I agree -- I would not advocate putting in the changes with no plans to also include LVM drivers16:14
winston-d_bswartz: does any other cloud infrastructure software (such VMWare vCloud, CloudStack) provide NAS service?16:15
bswartzan alternative proposal would be, grant an extension on the whole change, waiting until the LVM driver are included16:15
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jgriffithkeep in mind there's an entire service you're proposing goes in to Grizzly that will have ZERO testing16:15
bswartzwinston-d_: I'm not aware of any, this is an opportunity to put OpenStack ahead of the rest16:16
jgriffithNo gate tests, no tempest tests, no devstack tests etc16:16
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DuncanT1I'd really like to see something, even a beer mat design, for how this can be made to work with segregated networks without major rework...16:16
bswartzjgriffith: those are things we want to work on -- it's hard to put those in before there is something to test16:16
winston-d_bswartz: ok. thx for the info. i'm interested to learn the real use cases in either public/private cloud.  I know NAS is very useful but don't know how it is(will) be used in cloud.16:17
kmartinIt would have to have some type of test to be accepted16:17
jgriffithbswartz: understood, but I suspect the TC would kick my butt if I dropped an entire service with zero integration into the openstack ecosystem16:17
thingeejgriffith: +116:18
bswartzjgriffith: what I dont' want to do is to try to introduce everything with a big bang -- big bang changes never happen16:18
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thingeebswartz: for any other change I would be fine to make an exception, but this is a pretty big change.16:18
bswartzthere has to be an incremental approach to actually build software16:18
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kmartinjgriffith: Have you ran it by the TC yet?16:18
guitarzanas a side note, we are already quite interested in shared storage, if we can make it work :)16:18
DuncanT1But we can be incremental over the 6 months of a release far more smoothly than we can between releases... People expect releases to be fairly complete16:19
bswartzI believe that laying the foundation for new APIs and reference impls are the right first step16:19
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DuncanT1i.e. merge what is there on day one of H rather than the last day of G16:19
kmartinbswartz: agree, but they should incremental approach needs to include test at the beginning16:19
dacharyDuncanT1: +116:20
kmartinDuncanT1: +116:20
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winston-d_i think some of use are concerned about the reference impls are a proprietary back-end.16:20
jgallardDuncanT1: +116:20
bswartzDuncanT1: The beginning is obviously better than the end. We did have a complete submission at the beginning of Grizzly, and it unfortunately has taken us this long to refactor the code to address the concerns of the core team16:20
bswartzhow about if we update our submission with the NFS based LVM driver today? The CIFS LVM driver still needs more time.16:21
jgriffithAlright, we're at 20+ minuts on this topic16:22
jgriffithI'm going to say it's not ready16:22
jgriffithand I'm still not even convinced of the use case/need for it anyway16:22
jgriffithbut there's way too much risk here16:22
bswartzjgriffith: will you grant an extension until next week and reconsider?16:22
jgriffithbswartz: I don't have that power16:23
jgriffithbswartz: FFE's come from the TC (ie Thierry) and I can assure you the answer would be no given the facts here16:23
bswartzso this means we'll be stuck until Havana opens up?16:23
ttxuntil RC1 is out, yes16:24
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bswartzI have to say I'm disappointed, but I won't argue it any further16:24
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bswartzI respect the will of the community16:24
rushiagrjgriffith: bswartz we can have the NFS part in atleast, so that people can have a look and comment. Maybe we can disable this service for now, but let the code in with a warning?16:24
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winston-d_rushiagr: disable how?16:25
jgriffithrushiagr: Nah, I think that's a sneaky way to get your code in unoficially :)16:26
thingeerushiagr: I don't understand the point if it's incomplete for it to be in a major stable release.16:26
rushiagrwinston-d_: I mean, not have it running by default16:26
jgriffithOk, we really should move on.16:26
rushiagrjgriffith: okay..16:26
jgriffith#topic G3 status16:27
*** openstack changes topic to "G3 status (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:27
thingeebswartz: can we talk after the meeting?16:27
winston-d_rushiagr: that (what service is being run) 's really not controlled by the code itself unless you remove the bin/cinder-share? that sounds very odd to me.16:27
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jgriffithSo it looks like were' in ok shape, everythin is in the review process16:27
jgriffithremember the gates take a long time now, so please don't delay/hesitate on reviews and turn arounds16:28
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jgriffithDuncanT1: any update for backups?16:28
bswartzthingee: yes i have another hour after this16:28
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DuncanT1jgriffith: We're just fighting unit tests after rebasing against the multi-backend stuff... hopefully a few hours off16:28
jgriffithDuncanT1: alright16:29
smulcahyWe pushed another patch earlier today, it should have addressed most of the comments16:29
jgriffithsmulcahy: yeah, I saw that but it fails unit tests16:29
jgriffiththanks to the oslo dump as DuncanT1 mentioned16:29
jgriffiththingee: any ideas on the V2 client switch?16:30
DuncanT1Head of tree fails unit tests if you run them certain ways that always used to work, which is slowing me down quite a bit16:30
jgriffithDuncanT1: Yeah, I'm getting to that16:30
thingeejgriffith: I'll need to recheck and make sure something is just not failing at gate16:30
jgriffiththingee: looking last night it seems it's a bonified failure16:31
jgriffiththingee: again, I think we're being bit by the new config/versioning common changes here16:31
xyang_jgriffith: is TearDown still called for unit test?  doesn't seem to be called any more16:31
jgriffithxyang_: TBH they've completely jacked everything up so bad I don't even know what it's doing or not doing anymore16:32
jgriffithxyang_: Is that why the xml file was left behind for you all of a sudden you expect?16:32
xyang_jgriffith: yes16:32
jgriffithxyang_: makes sense16:32
jgriffithxyang_: considering I wsn't seeing that before16:33
jgriffithxyang_: note I logged a couple of bugs for you if you could take care of those it would be great16:33
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xyang_jgriffith: yes, working on them16:33
jgriffithxyang_: the temp file we should be using tempdir or cleaning up manually anyway but it is peculiar16:33
jgriffithxyang_: thanks16:33
xyang_jgriffith: can I just use "/tmp" as path16:34
jgriffitheharney: Looks like you turned the LIO changes around, I'll look at them shortly16:34
jgriffithxyang_: You can, but checkout using the tempdir module16:34
xyang_jgriffith: sure16:34
eharneyjgriffith: yep just had to rebase a little16:35
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jgriffitheharney: :)16:35
jgriffitha lot of rebasing going on  :)16:35
jgriffithI think those are the big issues...16:35
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jgriffithEverybody that can we just need to keep on top of reviews and keep things moving16:36
jgriffithPlease help out if you can16:36
jgriffith#topic questions/issues16:36
*** openstack changes topic to "questions/issues (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:36
jgriffithYes, unit tests are borked in local env's, I'll try and figure that out and update everyone16:36
jgriffithAnybody else have anything?16:37
jgallardI would like to make some integration tests for the multibackend feature with tempest16:38
jgallardI didn't find such a tests16:38
jgallardwhat do you think about that ?16:38
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jgallardit's a good area to explore ?16:38
jgriffithjgallard: I love the idea!16:38
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jgallardgreat ! :)16:38
jgriffithjgallard: So we'll need to modify devstack as well of course16:38
jgriffithjgallard: if you need pointers on how all that works and where it lives lemme know16:39
jgallardYes I think so16:39
DuncanT1We will have a look at some boackup tests for tempest too16:39
jgriffithjgallard: although today won't be a good day for that :)16:39
kmartinI had an action last week to populate the list of volume stats, I placed them on wiki, I think I documented it correctly but would like someone to look at them16:39
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jgriffithDuncanT1: yes please :)16:39
jgallardjgriffith: ok ! thanks a lot ;-)16:39
jgriffithkmartin: nice16:40
JM1kmartin: the 'storage_protocol' looks very vague to me16:40
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jgriffithJM1: that's kind of intentional :)16:40
JM1and I still wonder how/if it is used16:40
JM1I see it as an implementation detail of the driver, but you may enlighten me16:41
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kmartinI could add a note about it matching the driver volume type?16:41
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winston-d_let's discuss what capabilities/stats to report for drivers in coming summit.16:41
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jgriffithwinston-d_: +116:41
kmartinwinston-d_: +116:42
thingeewinston-d_: +116:42
xyang_winston-d_: +116:42
jgriffithJM1: This is something that we plan to formalize16:42
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JM1no plan to attend the summit on my side, but I will read your notes on this ;)16:42
jgriffithJM1: right now it's kinda "loose" based on some needs we had16:42
kmartinI think most drivers have volume stats now so people could look at them for an exanmple16:42
JM1jgriffith: ok, and I suppose the needs aren't clear yet16:42
jgriffithJM1: :)16:43
jgriffithJM1: some are, some aren't16:43
JM1ok, that's fine with me16:43
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JM1until then we can have placeholders and improve as needed16:43
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winston-d_JM1: did you read this?
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JM1winston-d_: nope, didn't know about it, thanks for the pointer16:44
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winston-d_and finally, i have a doc about filter scheduler.16:44
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winston-d_don't know how to share to you all except explicitly add each one of you into google doc's share.16:45
xyang_winston-d_: that looks great.  thanks!16:45
jgriffithwinston-d_: make it viewable by anyone with link16:45
jgriffithand post the link16:45
winston-d_jgriffith: sure. let me try to find the16:47
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JM1winston-d_: interesting, we don't fit in any of the proposed "protocols"16:47
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jgriffithJM1: what protocol do you use?16:48
jgriffithJM1: sorry.. not sure of your affiliation/device16:48
winston-d_all, here's the doc for filter scheduler:
xyang_winston-d_: can you also explain how multiple volume driver uses volume_type in your doc?16:48
JM1jgriffith: we provide a FUSE filesystem, which talks to our servers with our own proprietary protocol16:49
jgriffithOh... yes, now I know your patch :)16:49
winston-d_xyang_: check out my filter scheduler doc i just posted.16:49
xyang_xyang_: sure16:49
jgriffithJM1: Ceph would be the closest in terms of protocol I believe16:49
JM1jgriffith: we will provide NFS in a release this year, but it's not there yet16:49
jgriffithJM1: sure16:50
JM1well, Ceph is different in many ways16:50
jgriffithJM1: yes understood16:50
JM1and even if we were close, but slightly different16:50
JM1I don't see how useful to the scheduler this information could be16:50
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winston-d_please do give me feedback on anything you find unclear/badly written/typo anything.16:50
jgriffithJM1: What I'm saying is as far as the "storage_protocol" just do as Ceph did and put your own custom entry for now16:50
JM1jgriffith: ah yes, sure16:51
avishayHi all, I'm very late :)16:51
jgriffithJM1: Yes, you made that clear to me the other day when you said our architecture was shit16:51
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JM1did I say this?16:51
JM1I try to say things softer usually :)16:51
JM1(even when I mean it like that)16:51
jgriffithalrighty... anybody have anything else pressing?16:52
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* DuncanT1 is intrigued to hear all of that rant some time16:52
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JM1jgriffith: I will have a process question related to my nova patch16:53
JM1but that may be off topic here16:53
jgriffithSure, hit me up later16:53
winston-d_let me know if there is any more use case around filter scheduler or scheduling you would like to see in the document.16:53
jgriffithOk... everyone thank you very much.16:53
DuncanT1Thanks John16:53
jgriffithOff to figure out how to fix the unit test debacle.16:53
jgriffithI'll be around if anybody needs anything or wants to help with stuff :)16:54
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"16:54
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 20 16:54:11 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:54
openstackMinutes (text):
JM1thanks john!16:54
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johnthetubaguyI just worked out why my calender was making noises at me17:03
johnthetubaguyhello wall17:03
johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI17:04
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 20 17:04:06 2013 UTC.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"17:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'17:04
johnthetubaguy#topic agenda17:04
*** openstack changes topic to "agenda (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"17:04
johnthetubaguythe wiki upgrade changed the link17:04
johnthetubaguyany more things people wanted to add?17:04
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BobBallThere are a couple of things we can talk about in AOB but nothing to the agenda17:05
johnthetubaguyOk, cool, just want to make sure we leave time for them17:05
johnthetubaguy#topic blueprints17:05
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"17:05
johnthetubaguywell its the last day, I don't see anything pending, except the OVS quantum related stuff17:05
BobBallWe do have one more thing that we're trying to get in17:06
johnthetubaguywhat is that?17:06
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BobBalla bug fix from Mate - he's just joining17:06
BobBallMate - was just saying that there's one more thing we're trying to get in grizzly-317:06
johnthetubaguyOk, well that will have to wait till tomorrow probably17:06
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johnthetubaguycritial features only today I think they said17:07
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BobBallIt's very close to being ready for review - hopefully will be pushed today.17:07
matelakatit'll be fine, I have a bug filed.17:07
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matelakatIt's the generic case of copy images to volume.17:08
johnthetubaguy#topic docs17:08
*** openstack changes topic to "docs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"17:08
johnthetubaguynow we are past feature freeze I gues it is docs time17:08
johnthetubaguyyou might want to join in with other Xen people17:09
matelakatWho wants to do what?17:09
johnthetubaguywell each do your own feature first seems like a good way forward?17:09
johnthetubaguythen see where we are later?17:09
matelakatOkay, I am planning to deal with the XenAPINFS Stuff.17:09
johnthetubaguydoes anyone fancy doing a full pass of the docs to see what we are missing17:10
matelakatDoes the other features require docs?17:10
BobBallWe're planning to start looking at docs v.soon, yes - but unfortunately can't make the Xen document day17:10
johnthetubaguy#action matelakat to ensure docs are done for XenAPINFS17:10
BobBallBoth Mate and myself are involved in a long meeting on Monday17:10
johnthetubaguymatelakat: i think just need to add it works on XenAPI , and document (find) any limitations17:11
johnthetubaguyI can ping michael still and see if it is complete17:12
matelakatI would like to try out that configdrive at some point.17:12
johnthetubaguyOK any more for any more?17:12
johnthetubaguyinstall guides are a big missing bit17:12
johnthetubaguyand testing them, of course17:13
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BobBallInstalling what sort of setup are you thinking of?17:13
johnthetubaguythese ones: #link
johnthetubaguythey don't cover XenAPI17:14
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matelakatWe have a proper lab setup here17:14
BobBallgot it17:14
matelakatAnd hopefully we could amend the docs while trying them out.17:14
johnthetubaguysounds good17:15
johnthetubaguyping me on IRC if I can help17:15
johnthetubaguywith questions17:15
johnthetubaguyOK, so open discussion time17:15
johnthetubaguy#topic OpenDiscussion17:16
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenDiscussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"17:16
BobBallMe first!17:16
BobBallI'd like your input john on
BobBallTried to add you as a reviewer, but gerrit doesn't like your email any more17:16
johnthetubaguysure, you can just add my name, and I should help out17:17
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BobBallI've tried a few times but it keeps rejecting you saying your email is invalid :D17:17
johnthetubaguyit doesn't like me adding myself either17:17
BobBalleven though it auto completed it!17:17
johnthetubaguyjust add "johngarbutt"17:18
johnthetubaguynot sure why it dosn't like my email17:18
BobBallAh - that added you17:18
johnthetubaguyanyway, looks about right.17:18
johnthetubaguycopyright notice and stuff17:19
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johnthetubaguyI will take a look tomorrow17:19
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johnthetubaguyOK, me next17:19
johnthetubaguyI have added a summit talk for the XenAPI road map17:19
johnthetubaguyto help the discussion I have opened an etherpad17:19
BobBallLooks good17:20
johnthetubaguyThere are some boiler plate bits, but please contribute17:20
BobBallI'll try and update it with my thoughts17:20
matelakatI can add mine as well.17:20
johnthetubaguyfeel free to ping me on IRC when you add stuff, not sure I can subscribe17:20
matelakatHaving a proper Xapi layer in oslo.17:20
johnthetubaguyit is a nova discussion really, that would be a seprate oslo session really17:21
johnthetubaguythe can collapse the ones that will not take a whole session17:21
johnthetubaguybut we can talk about including it in the nova session17:21
matelakatWhat is AOB?17:22
johnthetubaguyany other bussiness17:22
johnthetubaguysilly english term I guess17:22
BobBallAny Other Business17:22
BobBalloh duh17:22
BobBalldidn't see the reply17:22
johnthetubaguyno worries17:22
BobBallI think I need to visit the opticians17:22
matelakatSo I was busy with this cinder stuff, and I found around 3-4 bugs.17:23
johnthetubaguyI went last week17:23
johnthetubaguyapparently I can see17:23
matelakatSo that's good for Cinder.17:23
matelakatWe were talking about using qemu-img for image conversion inside nova17:23
johnthetubaguycool, do we have tempest tests runninon your new code17:23
johnthetubaguyhave you spoken to comstud about that?17:24
guitarzanmatelakat: what'd you find by the way?17:24
matelakatI don't have tempest test, I have separate exercise-like tests.17:24
matelakatguitarzan: see this link:
johnthetubaguymatelakat: regular tests should test the new driver OK17:25
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matelakatjohn: I haven't spoken to comstud17:25
matelakatI 'am a bit confused.17:25
johnthetubaguyhe was preping something here:
guitarzanmatelakat: gotcha! I was expecting xen cinder stuff :)17:26
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matelakatguitarzan: The nightmare happened in the manager level...17:26
matelakatguitarzan: sorry for that.17:26
matelakatjohn, this is a bit old17:27
guitarzanno worries, I'm vested in both17:27
matelakatAnd I don't see how it would solve the issue.17:27
johnthetubaguywrong link17:27
matelakatIt is just a python binding.17:27
matelakatI tried it once, but did not work.17:27
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matelakatWHat I am talking about: use qemu-img convert to convert the downloaded image.17:28
johnthetubaguyyes, the plan was to extract vhd code from xen17:28
matelakatSo in this case, we could launch any type of images.17:28
johnthetubaguythen link that inside qemu-img17:28
johnthetubaguyagreed, we could go to raw then boot raw17:28
matelakatI think, we are talking about 2 things.17:28
BobBallso comstud's plan is to upstream the XS vhd format so qemu-img could convert directly to it?17:29
johnthetubaguycurrently it creates broken vhd files17:29
johnthetubaguybut we could create raw then boot from those, using the disk attach dd method17:29
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BobBall"broken" or just "not XenServer enhanced" ;)17:29
matelakatdd method.17:30
matelakatTHat's what I was trying to describe.17:30
johnthetubaguyI think they break when you take a snapshot, can't remember17:30
matelakatreplace dd with qemu-img17:30
johnthetubaguybut what would qemu-img be used for?17:30
BobBalljohnthetubaguy, yeah - the XS VHD format has extensions that enable sensible snapshots (in particular you can't coalesce sensibly with the stock VHD format)17:30
johnthetubaguyBobBall: ah, that would be it then17:31
johnthetubaguyI knew there were extensions17:31
BobBallso I'm not surprised that problems start when you try snapshotting with the stock VHDs17:31
johnthetubaguyI guess they are missing17:31
matelakatIf you want to start an instance from a qcow2 image, you could use qemu-img convert to convert it to raw, and pipe the raw bytes to the vdi.17:31
johnthetubaguyright, OK, I guess that was what I was expecting to hear, cool17:31
johnthetubaguyI think it helps17:32
johnthetubaguybut the image in the qcow2 may well not run on Xen, but that is less likely these days, I guess17:32
johnthetubaguyit would be nice to extened/use cloud-init to install the XenServer tools17:32
johnthetubaguyconfig drives could contain the tools17:33
johnthetubaguyOk, sounds like we are done17:33
matelakatOk, see you17:33
* BobBall is17:34
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johnthetubaguy#action matelakat to add inline qcow2 conversion to wiki17:34
johnthetubaguymissed him17:34
johnthetubaguyand I meant etherpad17:34
johnthetubaguythanks all17:34
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:34
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 20 17:34:46 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:34
openstackMinutes (text):
BobBallThanks John17:34
BobBalltill next week!17:34
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arek_chdo you know if heat team meeting is goinh to occur today?17:55
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arek_chI'm reffering to:
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sdakearek_ch yes occuring today18:00
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arek_chok - thnx18:01
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arek_chsdake - what is the general agenda for these meetings? is there an opens slot?18:02
sdakeyes - edit agenda with your items18:02
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arek_chI wanted to know if there are some plans to add/pass to nova-api the information about the service id the vm is part of18:04
arek_chbut ok - i'll wait to the meeting18:04
sdakedefine service id18:04
sdakeyou mean tenant?18:04
sdakedevs are in #heat on freenode, feel free to ask questions there about those sorts of things18:05
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davidhaHi, where can I find the last meeting(s) record(s)?18:33
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davidhadolphm: tnx18:40
clarkbdavidha: has all of the meeting logs and channel logs for the channels we log (if you can't find what you want on the wiki)18:42
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notmynameanyone here for the swift meeting?19:00
Trixboxero/ ( observer - 1st time )19:01
notmynamelet's get started, then19:01
notmyname#startmeeting swift19:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 20 19:01:16 2013 UTC.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'19:01
notmynameI've got a short agenda for this week:19:01
notmynamereport from chmouel about what he has found about keystone and details of changes (if any) needed19:02
notmynamesummit talks19:02
notmynameand any open questions19:02
notmynameI've got to be done in 30 minutes19:02
notmyname#topic keystone v3 changes?19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "keystone v3 changes? (Meeting topic: swift)"19:02
notmynamechmouel: what do you have for us?19:02
chmouelso henrynash was kind of enough to send a message resuming the problem19:02
chmouelavailable here
chmouelfrom the look of it i don't think this is going to cause problem19:03
chmouelit only acls works19:03
chmoueland that should be backward compatible19:03
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notmynameok, so we may have some patches to the keystone middleware, but nothing beyond that?19:03
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chmouelthat's correct AFAICS19:04
notmynamegreat. I think that's the right answer anyway :-)19:04
notmynameanyone have any questions/comments?19:04
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davidhachmouel: now thatther eare projectId and domainID in keystone - which will map to an account?19:05
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chmoueldavidha: I believe the projectid would do since they are unique19:05
claygshould still be tenant's (now called projects)19:05
dolphmchmouel: +119:05
claygohai dolphm!19:05
dolphmclayg: o/19:06
chmouelhere is THE man speaking!19:06
davidha+1 projectID == account19:06
davidhais domain a reseller prefix?19:06
chmouelthat i am not totally sure since they have different use19:06
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notmynameno. the reseller prefix is swift-specific19:06
claygdavidha: don't go involving swift terms like reseller prefix in keystone - it'll just get confusing :P19:06
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davidhather eis a concept pof domains in keystone v319:07
davidhadifferen tpepole think differently about it19:07
chmouelwe could potentially have urls which include domains19:07
chmoueland the default would be the same as now19:07
chmouel(default being as well keystone domain default)19:07
claygchmouel: as long as the auth middleware is doing the remapping, the url of the data makes a difference to the ring, there's shoudln't be a data migration19:07
notmynamekeystone can map their users to swift endpoints however they want, but the important point is that it doesn't affect anything in swift19:08
davidhaIs the use pepole do with reseller prefix essentially different from whet domains will be in keystone?19:08
chmouelclayg: well not for the domain specifics domains which woudl not need migration19:08
notmynamedavidha: ya. a reseller prefix is for swift deployments with more than one auth system19:08
chmouelsince introduced in v319:08
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chmouelclayg: i mean domain specifics urls19:09
clayg"doamin specifics domains"!?19:09
dolphmi'm concerned that swift acl's wont be able to support two projects with the same name - yes it looks like it'll correctly detect that the second project is a mismatch, but that's not the same as supporting it19:09
davidhanotmyname: I am not saying anything should change in swift - but maybe the keystone middleware should have an option for mapping keystone domains to reseller prefix19:09
claygchmouel: oh... like *another* swift account for the domain globally instead of "just" a project?19:09
dolphm(i'm reading the link above)19:09
chmouelwell no, but the way I sees it it's by default we have:19:10
claygdavidha: I think that would overload what swift currently does with reseller prefix, and cause problems for people using more than one authorizer to their swift cluster19:10
clayg... but may there's room in the middle19:10
chmoueland if we are getting from auth_token a domain19:10
notmynamedolphm: the ACLs are opaque to swift and only matter to the auth middleware. if that needs to change to better match keystone v3, that's ok19:10
dolphmnotmyname: cool19:10
chmouelwe can have instead http://url/AUTH_tenantid@domain19:10
chmouelor whatever url19:10
davidhachmouel: are you sure that projectID is unqie between ketstone domains?19:11
notmynamedolphm: the only concern (and mostly on the keystone side rather than swift) is that there is a migration path19:11
dolphmdavidha: yes19:11
chmouelit's uuid19:11
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davidhasuch that we do not have domain1-project_jack and domain2-project-jack19:11
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claygchmouel: how would the @doamin disambiguate the globally unique teantid?  AUTH_tenantid@a_different_domain wouldn't make any sense to me?19:11
davidhachmouel: well there is a project name and ther eis a uuid19:11
davidhathe project name I think is not unique19:12
chmoueldavidha: it's not using project_name but only project_id19:12
claygchmouel: +119:12
claygthat's KEY19:12
davidhaMaybe the middleware should ofer more than option for mapping to solve different use cases19:12
dolphmnames are user-defined in keystone, and now may conflict across domains; ID's are UUID's provided by keystone and therefore safe to use unencoded in URL's and stuff19:12
chmouelyep using the tenantid would ensure uniqueness and no conflict19:13
claygdavidha: enumerate the use cases, if there's something missed there's probably time to fill the gaps19:13
davidhaif account  = project uuid - we loose this nice swift charactaristic that users can define their URLs19:13
chmoueldavidha: well it never was able with keystoneauth19:13
caitlin-nexentaUUIDs might be unique, but no user is going to want to enter them in an ACL.19:13
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chmouelbecause keystone could not give have endpoint url wiht %(tenant_name)19:14
dolphmcaitlin-nexenta: i'd personally like to make the default ID length configurable to ease that19:14
chmouelonly tenant_id19:14
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davidhaAUTH_TEST/y387437434632643648736487326487364/mycontainer/myfile is not as good as AUTH_TEST/myaccount/mycontainer/myfile19:14
chmoueldolphm: +119:14
chmoueldavidha: well i think there is the keystone side to fix first if we wanted that19:14
chmouelbut i think we may work on that further when the v3 imp is stable19:15
notmynamedolphm: so it sounds like there are a few things to discuss, but those will probably come up in patches to the keystone middleware. correct?19:15
davidhachmouel: unless we use domain = prefix ,  such that the project ud becomes unique within that prefix - this still can allow using adifferent prefix to direct to a different auth system19:15
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dolphmnotmyname: i think so19:15
davidha(or that we have a configuration option for the middleware mapping - both are fine)19:16
dolphmnotmyname: auth_token isn't consuming v3 yet anyway19:16
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chmoueldavidha:  yes but prefix has not been designed to do that19:16
notmynameok. I think that would be our timeframe19:16
notmynamedolphm: is that anticipated before girzzly or in H?19:16
davidhanotmyname: I also think it is all solvable in the middleware19:17
dolphmnotmyname: H19:17
notmynamedolphm: ok.19:17
chmoueldavidha: +119:17
notmynamelet's move on then19:17
notmyname#topic summit talks19:17
*** openstack changes topic to "summit talks (Meeting topic: swift)"19:17
notmynamesubmissions for talks in the swift track (and all the others) are open at http://summit.openstack.org19:18
davidhaThis will probably my first visit to portland :)19:18
notmynameif you have something to talk about (code, designs, other technical content), please submit a talk19:18
cschwedeis this still open?19:18
notmynamethe goal is not for presentations (lectures) but for conversations19:18
davidhanotmyname: deadline for submitting items?19:19
cschwede@notmyname: ah, ok.19:19
notmynameI don't know the deadline, but it should be after the PTL elections, I'd imagine (since the PTLs set the schedules)19:19
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notmynameso I'd guess you have a few weeks19:19
notmynameany other questions about the summit?19:20
notmyname#topic open discussion19:20
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)"19:21
notmynameany other issues that need addressing? patches that need discussion that can't happen in gerrit?19:21
davidhaI would need some assistance and guiding reg doubling the ring19:21
davidhaany volenteers?19:22
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torgomaticdavidha: I should have some time to start looking at patches again soon19:22
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davidhatorgomatic: Thanks19:23
notmynameI'd like to see if your latest patch set addresses the concerns gholt has (his -2 is still there)19:23
torgomaticI've been quite busy with other, non-Swift stuff, but that should be slowing down soonish19:23
notmynametorgomatic: not slower, just refocused on swift things :-)19:23
davidhanotmyname: gholt indicted later that he think the ideas in the patch seem to address teh main isues19:24
davidhabut it is not a done deal yet19:24
notmynamedavidha: ya, I remember seeing something like that19:24
notmynamehe's not in here, so someone who sits near him at RAX should ask him if his -2 still stands19:24
claygdavidha: gholt's last comment seemed to just be "please set this to work in progress" - which is a neat trick for patches you're still making changes too19:25
notmynamedavidha: if your patch is still a work in progress, cna you please mark it as such19:25
notmynameya. what clayg said :-)19:25
redboI think he meant gholt's comments on the blueprint19:25
claygoh yeah those!19:25
claygfor the love of god just link an and get off that horrid thing19:26
davidhayes on the blueprint19:26
notmynameany other things to bring up today?19:26
cschwedeI'd like to know if someone is interested in a shared container approach (ie you see shared containers from other users and access them with your own storage URL). I have a working draft and would appreciate any comments19:27
chmouelwould be nice if we can get reviewed19:27
notmynamecschwede: interesting. as something different than ACLs?19:27
chmouelcschwede: what would be different to ACLs ?19:27
caitlin-nexentaWho would control access to a shared container?19:28
cschwedeno, using current acls. We will use it as an internal dropbox for large data sets19:28
notmynamecschwede: have you published your draft anywhere?19:28
davidhacschwede:  what does it add beyond what can be done today with ACLs19:29
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cschwede@chmouel: you see shared containers in your container listing, without need for the storage url from other users19:29
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chmouelcschwede: so is that .rlistings on ACLs ?19:29
claygchmouel: can you set .rlisting on your account19:30
chmouelclayg: oh correct19:30
cschwede@davidha: easier to use for your users19:30
chmouelbut isn't that something that can be extended in auth middlewares/acl.parse_acl?19:30
claygcschwede: I think it's as least an interesting idea as allowing keystone domain & project names in the url instead of tenant_id's19:31
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cschwedesorry, I meant containers from other accounts, not other users19:32
notmynameunfortunately, I've got to run now. there's nothign scheduled in here for the next 30 minutes, so please keep discussing if you'd like19:32
claygI've acctually noted that not having a way to enumerate a users's permissions is sort of a hassle from a design perspective19:32
notmynamecschwede: I'd also suggest getting feedback from devs in #openstack-swift or comments on the mailing list19:32
chmouelclayg: +119:33
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notmynamenext meeting in two weeks19:33
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"19:33
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 20 19:33:15 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:33
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openstackMinutes (text):
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clayglike if you have a non-.admin user and you wanna display a list of all the containers they've been giving permissions to... well like they don't even have permission to just walk all the containers in thier <account>:19:33
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cschwede@clayg: my current draft solves this also19:34
claygcschwede: do you have any ideas for implementation?19:34
claygoh sry, missed the link19:34
cschwede@clayg: it's already working in our test environment19:34
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cschwedeI need to update the Readme, will do that tomorrow19:34
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claygcschwede: so you've got a wellknown container (self.contlist) that stores json blobs by "username" - memcache to accelerate19:38
claygoic, and you snarf requests with acl's in them to keep things up to date19:39
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cschwede@clayg: yes, thats correct. Read ACL modifications update these19:39
claygcschwede: seems kinda like what one would do i suppose19:39
cschwedeIt works quite stable - doesn't break any functests/probetests from swift, works as expected (at least for us)19:39
cschwede@clayg: thanks19:40
chmouelyeah i agree it's neat19:40
cschwedeI think the stored JSON/memcache keys need a little better layout, some settings should be configurable in proxy-server.conf19:40
cschwedemy intention was to make this transparent to all sorts of clients - web GUI, swift CLI, S3 API, Rackspace iOS App, SFTP/FTP...19:41
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sdake_zMany filters use data from scheduler_hints, that is defined in the moment of creation of the new server for the user. The only exception for this rule is JsonFilter, that takes data in some strange difficult to understand way.19:58
sdake_zoops wrong channel sorry19:58
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sdake_z#startmeeting heat20:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Feb 20 20:01:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is sdake_z. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:01
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sdake_zhidey ho - rollcall pls20:01
zanebstevebaker: semaphore?20:02
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SpamapSWuthering Heights by Semaphore..  a classic. :)20:02
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sdake_z#topic graduation20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "graduation (Meeting topic: heat)"20:02
sdake_zso grats folks20:02
sdake_z11 months all in we were successful :)20:03
Slowerwoot!  That's awesome20:03
* stevebaker shoots silly-string20:03
Slowervery nice work guys20:03
* SpamapS mourns poor old Mr Silly-string.. why'd we have to shoot him? ;)20:03
SpamapSvery cool20:03
sdake_znot to be debbie downer but i expect the project will change a bit ass we add more contributors20:03
asalkeldme too here20:04
sdake_zhi angus welcome to the party ;)20:04
sdake_z#topic g3 rc1 bugs20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "g3 rc1 bugs (Meeting topic: heat)"20:04
SpamapSsdake_z: downer? I think its going to change only in that it will get more awesome. :)20:04
sdake_zyup hope so ;)20:05
sdake_zbetter then decline ;)20:05
Slowerbetter than most of the redhat started projects I've been on :)20:05
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sdake_zok we got 14 bugs20:05
sdake_zslower blame the devs ;)20:05
sdake_zwe have 2 weeks to fix these bugs20:06
SpamapSI feel like needs a bit of careful handling. If we can fix that in a way that sets up Havana to eliminate the use of /var/lib/cloud/data that would be ideal.20:06
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1105806 in heat "/var/lib/cloud belongs to cloud-init, heat should not write files there" [Medium,Triaged]20:06
asalkeld1 a day20:06
sdake_zrather then go through all of them i'd like to just talk about the unassigned ones20:06
sdake_zand get someone assigned20:07
sdake_zor remove them20:07
sdake_zi can take this one20:07
sdake_zunless stevebaker has something in the works already20:07
asalkeldsdake_z can't we just priotise them20:08
asalkeldand work from the top20:08
stevebakernope, but at lease I am familiar with the area now20:08
sdake_zthey are priortized i believe20:08
asalkeldok, job done then?20:08
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zanebwoo! party time ;)20:09
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sdake_zthere are only two other unasssigned bugs20:09
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1072938 in heat/grizzly "nosetests -a does not return error if credentials not loaded on functional tests" [Low,Triaged]20:09
jpeelermay be easier to fix, but how much do we care if we are going to testr eventually?20:10
* stevebaker started playing with testr yesterday20:10
sdake_zwell g is one release - should either fix bugs or say invalid20:11
sdake_zwhat we do in the future is not relevant ;)20:11
jpeelerfair enough20:11
SpamapSIMO, for an RC, low bugs are not really valid.20:11
asalkeldI think drop from g20:11
stevebakerI'd like to know if moving to testr is considered a "feature" for feature freeze20:11
SpamapSunless people are sitting around twiddling thumbs20:11
zanebis nose the cause of the issue?20:11
SpamapSstevebaker: testr is enough of a different experience that I'd delay it to havana as well.20:12
sdake_zno big changes please :)20:12
SpamapSthe main reason to love testr is parallelization, and right now, nose takes what, 10s to run?20:12
stevebakerwhat about unittest -> testtools?20:12
SpamapSthe other reasons are to help iterate and make tests faster by tracking their run times...20:13
clarkbwhen we did it with nova we dove into the deep end during a not so busy period giving us time to work out issues that cropped up20:13
clarkbstevebaker: unittest to testtools should be safe20:13
sdake_zlets not change the test infra right before a release :)20:13
SpamapSstevebaker: I'd just let new tests switch to testtools as a need is identified. testtools just makes it easier to write more clear/concise tests.. and it builds on top of unittest20:13
stevebakerpff ;)20:13
sdake_zstevebaker - fearless or reckless ;)20:14
sdake_zjpeeler you might taking that bug20:14
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1072949 in heat/grizzly "Reset DB migrations" [Low,Triaged]20:15
sdake_zthis will be our last opportunity20:15
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sdake_zI guess we need to decide if we want to pull the trigger on this one20:15
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sdake_zany debate?20:16
zanebis it really a breaking change? nova did something similar20:16
sdake_zthey squashed tho right?20:16
SpamapS+1 for doing it now. I doubt it will be so simple after G20:16
zanebsdake_z: yes20:16
sdake_zya if we dont do it now we wont ever do it ;)20:16
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stevebaker+1 for doing it now20:17
sdake_zit will break existing users20:17
asalkelddo it quick20:17
asalkeldso we have 10  days to find any issues20:17
sdake_zok - probably should reprioritize to critical then20:17
sdake_zzaneb you mind taking this one20:18
SpamapSProbably worth an email to openstack@ ... I doubt Heat has "production" users, but it may be disruptive to those in full scale testing.20:18
zanebsure, can do20:18
SpamapSwith G, technically Heat will still be an incubated component right? Like, its not official until H?20:18
sdake_zanyone having trouble with reviews of bugs?20:19
asalkeldyou mean code reviews?20:19
sdake_zany stuck20:19
sdake_zspamaps to be integrated in havana20:20
sdake_zVoted on "Approve graduation of Heat (to be integrated in common Havana release)?" yes (10) abstain (1) no (1)20:20
sdake_z#topic open items20:21
*** openstack changes topic to "open items (Meeting topic: heat)"20:21
sdake_z2 weeks for bug fixes and finding20:21
sdake_zthen 3 weeks to fix any critical/high bugs20:21
sdake_zduring that 3 weeks we can start cleaning up the bps for havana and having a look at  them20:22
SpamapSwould performance bugs count for this current 2 weeks?20:22
stevebakersounds good20:22
sdake_zdefine performance bug20:22
SpamapSWell I plan to spin up a few racks of servers w/ heat + nova baremetal20:22
asalkeldso scale +120:23
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SpamapSI know its going to take 48*single boot time...but it should be able to go a lot faster than that.20:23
stevebakerunless the fix is major architecture rewrite, I say go for it20:23
SpamapSI figure for low impact low hanging fruit, would be nice to get those in now.20:23
sdake_zspamaps it should be multithreaded20:23
stevebakerotherwise blueprint20:23
sdake_zshould take single boot time + 400usec for api calls per node20:23
asalkeldsdake_z don't need to be threaded20:24
sdake_zif you see somehting specifc - file a bug ;)20:24
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SpamapSsdake_z: well the single boot time is like, 10,000,000 usec .. so.. the 400 didn't seem worth mentioning :)20:24
zanebhold on, we only wait for nova to create the server, not to boot it20:24
asalkeldjust shouldn't block waiting for active20:24
sdake_zeach stack create is a separate operation20:24
SpamapSit has to go "ACTIVE"20:24
asalkeldjust to get the instance id20:25
sdake_zwith  a separate thread20:25
SpamapSI said "single boot" I guess I mean "single create"20:25
SpamapSanyway, just wanted to make sure thats a problem people will be open to tackling now if I can find a low impact way to do it20:25
SpamapS(which I can... I think)20:25
sdake_zyou mean multipel vms in one template?20:25
asalkeldpatrick would love this too20:25
SpamapSright we don't have o block waiting for active, we don't need to block until we actually need something from the instance info.20:26
sdake_zok i thought you meant 48 separate api calls20:26
SpamapSno, one stack20:26
SpamapS48 machines20:26
SpamapS(40 or so are in a single instance group)20:26
zanebSpamapS: are you using an autoscaling group?20:26
SpamapS^^ aye20:26
uvirtbotSpamapS: Error: "^" is not a valid command.20:26
zanebok, that should be fixable in a not-too-horrible way I would imagine20:27
asalkeldalso there is the nova.boot(mincount) optioin20:27
asalkeldso nova creates the instances for you20:27
SpamapSyeah, lazy load of details... lots of things we can do without tackling the multiple threads issue20:27
sdake_zblocking on dependency execution rather then parent creation seems easy enough20:27
SpamapSlets not implement it in the meeting, just getting the greenlight is good enough :)20:28
sdake_zwfm - 10 days after that lockdown ;)20:28
SpamapSblueprint review?20:29
sdake_z2 weeks20:29
SpamapSI know they're all "done"20:29
sdake_zoh you mean existing ones20:29
sdake_zya w eshould be set there20:29
SpamapSdid anything slip through the cracks at the end?20:29
sdake_zya shardy put some code in20:29
sdake_zthat may need a review20:30
sdake_zthe schedule slipped a day20:30
SpamapS ?20:30
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* SpamapS has a conflicting appointment and must bow out now20:32
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sdake_zok blueprint looks good20:32
sdake_zanything else?20:32
SpamapSone last thing.. is everyone ok with uvirtbot joining #heat and posting messages whenever there is a New bug reported on launchpad?20:33
stevebakeryes please20:33
SpamapSok, I've asked soren to join it to the channel.. the new bug tracking will take a couple of days20:33
* SpamapS disappears20:33
sdake_zok anything else?20:33
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"20:34
openstackMeeting ended Wed Feb 20 20:34:06 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:34
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boris-42vish sdague could you take a look one more time at
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