Thursday, 2013-02-21

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nijaba#startmeeting Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#meetingtopic Ceilometer15:00
nijaba#chair nijaba15:00
nijabaATTENTION: please keep discussion focused on topic until we reach the open discussion topic15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Feb 21 15:00:31 2013 UTC.  The chair is nijaba. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:00
openstackCurrent chairs: nijaba15:00
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nijabaHello everyone! Show of hands, who is around for the ceilometer meeting?15:00
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nijabagood to see everyone!15:01
nijaba#topic actions from previous meeting15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "actions from previous meeting (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
nijaba#topic dhellman to update documentation based on
*** openstack changes topic to "dhellman to update documentation based on (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:01
nijabaI know this was done and mergedm, thanks dhellmann!15:01
nijaba#info done15:01
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nijabaanything to add on the topic?15:02
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nijabaThat was it for last week's action, then15:02
nijaba#topic graduatiion status15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "graduatiion status (Meeting topic: Ceilometer)"15:02
nijabaSo the TC graduated heat last week, and started on Ceilometer but did not have time to complete.  So the vote will be next week.15:02
jd__no comment15:02
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eglynnI wasn't too impressed with the "I'm ready to vote now" comment TBH15:03
nijabado you think we need to change something in what we prepared so far?15:03
dhellmanneglynn did a great job answering questions as our point man during the meeting15:03
nijabathanks eglynn for taking the lead on this15:03
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jd__yeah good job eglynn15:03
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eglynnso I was chatting a bit with asalkeld on the phone yesterday about this15:03
sandywalshI think the meeting went fine and they just ran out of time.15:04
eglynnhe had the idea that we should brainstorm a FAQ for likely questions that may come up in the next meeting15:04
nijabasandywalsh: that was my feeling reading the backlog15:04
dhellmannsandywalsh: yeah, we expedted as much because they shifted to going serial15:04
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dhellmanneglynn, asalkeld: good idea15:04
dhellmannOTOH, some of those questions seemed to come out of left field15:05
jd__eglynn: why not, though I'm not sure we're going to have a lot of question now15:05
eglynnjd__: yep fair point15:05
nijabaso let's start an faq on the same wiki page we used so far?15:05
sandywalshdhellmann, the "a little bird told me" re: billing seemed a little out of place15:05
dhellmannsandywalsh: ?15:05
sandywalshthere was some comment about applicability to billing15:06
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dhellmannah, yeah15:06
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dhellmannthere did seem to be some confusion there15:06
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eglynnso one other thing is the approach of linking to a wiki with a fair bit of dense text15:06
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dhellmannI get the idea most of the TC hasn't actually been paying super close attention to our project. Which is fair enough, they have their own, projects. But we need to make sure our message is clear on what we've built and what it's for.15:07
* eglynn suspects some of TC members doidn't have time to read it all in tandem with participating in the discussion15:07
nijabadhellmann: agreed15:07
eglynnit all == the graduation wiki15:07
sandywalshdhellmann, eglynn +115:07
jd__dhellmann, eglynn +115:07
jd__that's what I think this process is kind of weird, but eh…15:07
nijabaeglynn: last time I copy/pasted the texte into the irc chan15:07
dhellmanneglynn: indeed. perhaps we can translated it into some bumper-sticker sized statements?15:07
russellbperhaps an email with the graduation wiki early in the day of the meeting would be good15:07
russellbthat'd remind me to go read it and be fresh ahead of the meeting and discussion15:08
nijabarussellb: nice idea too15:08
llu-laptopdhellmann: +1 for bumper-sticker sized statements15:08
nijabayou know how I love for people to take #action :)15:09
eglynndhellmann: yep that would make sense ... also add an easily disgestible (future) architecture diagram that can taken in at a glance15:09
maksimovwhat date is the next TC?15:09
dhellmannrussellb: +115:09
nijabawho want to have a go at the FAQ?15:09
nijabaat he bumber sticker statements?15:09
eglynnI can do it15:09
russellbmaksimov: Tuesday15:09
sandywalsheglynn, I think that's a better approach. A quick overview of architecture, highlighting where the major design discussions are talking place.15:09
maksimovrussellb: ty15:09
nijabaeglynn: is that the FAQ15:09
eglynnwell both I guess15:10
sandywalshand, I'm a big fan of visuals/video15:10
eglynnif we're agreed that's the way to go ...15:10
dhellmannI have a new architecture diagram that I'm using in my pycon presentation, I'll add it to the wiki15:10
jd__is it me or I don't have the impression Heat did so much effort to convince :)15:10
dhellmann#action dhellmann add new architecture diagram to wiki15:10
nijabadhellmann: neat15:10
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eglynn#action eglynn add bumper-sticker statements to wiki15:11
sandywalshI think we may be over thinking this and reading more into the delay than is really there. It was just due to time constraints. I think we're well on track.15:11
dhellmannjd__: as eglynn pointed out, at least one member seems predisposed against us.15:11
jd__sandywalsh: I agree15:11
jd__that's my impression too as I hear you all! :)15:11
nijabajd__: +115:11
jd__dhellmann: that's the one that voted against Heat too, that doesn't surprise me15:11
dhellmannjd__: right15:12
jd__we aren't going to win this vote, let's move on ;)15:12
jd__s/this/his/ :)15:12
sandywalshwhat's his objection?15:12
nijabajd__: I think he'd vote no to anything anyway15:12
* russellb also thinks you're well on track fwiw :)15:12
jd__nijaba: ya read my mind15:12
dhellmannrussellb: thanks!15:12
* nijaba notes to write check to russellb ;)15:13
jd__so let's not panic, enhance and polish things a bit and we're in :)15:13
jd__nijaba: shhhht!15:13
dhellmannjd__: +115:13
eglynnso beyond the improvements to the wiki discussed, any other prep we need to do prior to the TC meeting next week?15:13
nijaba#action nijaba to send a graduation email to the tc ml a few hours before the meeting, inviting to read the wiki15:14
sandywalshPerhaps ensure the BP's are on track for the release and the bug count is manageable15:14
sandywalshclean up any cruft in the pipe15:14
nijaba#action jd__ to do 50 push-ups before the tc meeting15:14
eglynnmakes sense15:14
sandywalshunderpromise overdeliver ... nice solide release15:15
dhellmannsandywalsh: good ideas15:15
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dhellmannnijaba: how *are* we doing with blueprints?15:15
nijabadhellmann: next topic ;)15:15
notmynamesandywalsh: his objection is that he's read claims that the metering is for billing info but the design seems to be for monitoring data. design-wise, you can't do billing usage info unless is can be recreated at a later arbitrary date from authoritative data (ie, you can't replay requests)15:15
* dhellmann waits patiently15:15
sandywalshnotmyname, gotcha ... we're adding all the stuff needed for SEC-compliant billing. It's a must have for us. Including double-entry accounting (which would include replay)15:16
nijabanotmyname: thanks for the insight15:16
sandywalshnotmyname, we do it now in stacktach and need to move all that functionality to CM15:17
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nealphnotmyname: not sure if that equals a comment on underlying design or the robustness of implementation...15:17
notmynameI don't know what double-entry accounting in the context of API requests is, but my general point is that 6 month's from now when I contest my bill, you can't reply all my 5GB PUTs to swift in order to get usage info15:17
nijabasandywalsh: non repudiation has been part of the req for ceilometer since day1, and transport is somewhat secured15:17
notmynamealso, emitting events to the network in the request flow seems frail (likely to lose events) as opposed to looking at log messages15:18
jd__notmyname: I'll be able to tell you exactly when, what and where you PUT things with what size as it is implemented now15:19
sandywalshnotmyname, very true, swift is certainly the elephant in the room. We're working with some of the logging-as-a-service guys to find a way to merge the two.15:19
eglynnnotmyname: is there a specific AMQP message-loss scenario you're concerned with?15:19
notmynamesandywalsh: and of course swift is the part I'm thinking about most :-)15:20
sandywalshnotmyname, we're hoping to use some of the UDP broadcasts as the secondary validation, but logging is the prime source. Not all those notifications will go directly into CM (i don't think)15:20
sandywalshnotmyname, absolutely, it's the largest scale component of the problem. Chuck schooled us on the volumes you're dealing with.  :)15:21
nijabaok, I guess the point is well noted now. Shall we move on?15:21
jd__let's go15:22
nijaba#topic preparing for rc115:22
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nijabao today the g3 milestone proposed branch was created by ttx. He will turn it into grizzly-3 at the end of the day unless we push a bug to the grizzly-3 buglist. (let's hope not)15:22
nijabaI had to push back on 3 blueprints though.  One of them being mostly a test (qpid) I automatically granted it an exception for rc115:22
nijabaWe now have to vote on the other 2 for a Feature Freeze exception.  Emails were sent earlier for both on the Mailing list.15:22
nijababp #1: hbase backend15:22
sandywalshnotmyname, would love to chat with you more about this ... it's a very important aspect of the solution.15:22
eglynnI'm currently working on the qpid testing task15:23
nijabaso, it looks to me like we are really close to a merge here, so I think it would be fair to grant an ffe for rc115:23
maksimovcan i vote? :-)15:23
nijabaanyone would like to have a formal vote?15:23
nijabaor should we just grant the exception?15:24
eglynnany need, are there objections?15:24
jd__I don't mind15:24
jd__I didn't review the code but since it's just an optional backend storage, I see no reason to refuse it15:24
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llu-laptopno objection.15:24
nijabawaitaing 20 second15:24
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eglynnyea by acclamation!15:24
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llu-laptopb.t.w. Is maksimov and Minjie Shen(BP asignee) the same person?15:25
nijaba#agreed ffe granted for hbase backend to be delivered in rc115:25
maksimovShengjie Min :-)15:25
nijaballu-laptop: good question ;)15:25
maksimovtwo people15:25
jd__llu-laptop: /whois :)15:25
nijabaworking together?15:25
nijabasounded like it15:25
nijabamoving on to next bp15:25
nijababp #2 : publisher counters frequency15:25
nijabasame status, afaict15:26
nijabaany objections to the exception?15:26
llu-laptopnope either15:26
dhellmannno objection to an exception15:26
dhellmannalthough I opened 3 blueprints with ideas for cleaning things up after that change lands15:27
nijaba#agreed ffe granted for publisher counters fequency to be delivered in rc115:27
dhellmannone would be a backwards-incompatible change to the plugin api, so we need to spend time thinking about how long we are going to support plugin apis like that15:27
dhellmannwe can do that later -- I expect we'll treat it like any other api15:27
nijabafyi, here is what we are delivering in g3:15:29
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nijabagreat job everyone!15:29
dhellmannnice list!15:29
nijabahere is what's in store for rc1:15:30
nijabaI hope weĺl all do a lot of testing on g3 to make sure we have a rock solid rc115:30
eglynnour second bug squashing day is coming up soon, right?15:30
dhellmannyes, we should also look hard at our test coverage15:31
nijabamarch 4th.15:31
yjiang5nijaba: when will the tree open for the ffe patches?15:31
nijabaerr, march 5th15:31
dhellmann#info bug squash day scheduled for March 5th15:32
nijabayjiang5: it stays open as trunk.  we just branched of g315:32
yjiang5nijaba: got it.15:32
yjiang5dhellmann: Possibly we need enable the code coverage?15:33
nijabanote that core dev should STOP accepting any new feature for which an exception has not been granted.  we should be in bug fix only mode now15:33
dhellmannyjiang5: I think there is a tox configuration for it, but jenkins is not using it15:33
nijaba#info core dev should STOP accepting any new feature for which an exception has not been granted. we should be in bug fix only mode now15:33
dhellmannnijaba: that's for trunk?15:33
yjiang5dhellmann: ok, so that's same for all openstack project, right?15:34
dhellmannor the pre-release branch?15:34
nijabadhellmann: I believe so, yes15:34
dhellmannyjiang5: I'm not sure15:34
dhellmannnijaba: ok, thanks for clarifying15:34
yjiang5dhellmann: I remember the truck is freeze till RC1?15:34
nijabattx: around to clarify?15:34
eglynnthe pre-release branch == milestone-proposed ?15:34
dhellmanneglynn: yeah, that's what I meant15:34
* ttx reads15:34
dhellmannI wasn't sure if we'd branched to milestone-proposed for the release, or if trunk was going to become the release and we had to be more careful there.15:35
eglynnIIRC milestone-proposed is usually cut just days before the upcoming release15:35
ttxyeah, feature freeze applies until rc1 is produced15:35
ttxat which point master branch opens for havana development15:35
ttxand we pray that we don't need an rc215:35
nijabathanks ttx!!15:35
ttx(and fail)15:35
dhellmanngot it, thanks ttx15:35
* nijaba prays the gods of free and open bits15:36
eglynnwhat's the approx date for RC1?15:36
nijabaI think dhellmann wanted to bring something else up on the rc1 topic, but can't remmeber what15:36
nijabaeglynn: march 14th15:37
dhellmannnijaba: the nova notifier bug, but there's a solution for that in process now15:37
nijabasee agenda15:37
nijabaok, anything else on the rc1 topic?15:38
dhellmannnot here15:38
yjiang5Is it possible to add test case in rc1?15:38
nijabayjiang5: I think so, yes15:38
yjiang5according to the Release_Cycle URL, only bug fixing allowed  :)15:38
dhellmannyjiang5: yes, we need to improve our test coverage15:38
llu-laptopyjiang5: unittest case?15:39
jd__more tests? sure15:39
dhellmanntests aren't production code15:39
jd__but passing tests only!15:39
nijabajd__: lol15:39
yjiang5jd__: : )15:39
dhellmannjd__: also useful tests only ;-)15:39
llu-laptopyjiang5: or tempest?15:39
jd__right :)15:39
yjiang5llu-laptop: Yes, posslble tempest15:39
jd__would be great15:39
eglynnso the lack of tempest coverage was brought up at the first TC meeting15:39
eglynn(1st meeting to consider graduation that is ...)15:40
eglynnso yeah, that would be good15:40
dhellmannyes, it would help protect us against incompatible changes in the parts of other projects we depend on15:40
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dhellmannnotification formats, rpc serialization changes, etc.15:41
eglynna couple of reverts today on the RPC side15:41
eglynneagle-eyes from markmc ...15:41
eglynnreverted first in olso, but we'd already sync'd up with the change15:42
llu-laptoppatch 22543 and 22544, but don't know the story behind the revert.15:43
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eglynnrisky changes to the RPC envelope format IIRC15:43
dhellmanneglynn: thanks for pointing those out, I'll revert them in our code, too15:43
ttxnijaba: unless you place a bug on the grizzly-3 list in the next 5 hours, i'll go on and publish g3 as-is.15:44
eglynnalready done15:44
dhellmannah, ok15:44
* dhellmann is behind on email15:44
eglynn(by markmc)15:44
nijabattx: ack15:44
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nijabaok, looks like we are done on this topic15:45
nijaba#topic Open Discussion15:45
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nijabaanything, anyone?15:45
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yjiang5I possibly have not much network access and development access in next one and half weeks15:46
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nijabayjiang5: going sailing?15:46
eglynnnew year?15:46
yjiang5no, I'm relocating, and my development machine will be packaged and shift.15:47
nijabayjiang5: where to, if thatś not a secret?15:47
eglynn'course new year that was a few weeks ago ...15:47
llu-laptopdhellman: yjiang5 would be in the same tz with yuu15:47
yjiang5eglynn: We just finished chinese new year. CNY.15:47
yjiang5yes, I will go to california, and same tz with dhellmann.15:47
nijabayjiang5: going to portland or sc?15:47
dhellmannyjiang5: no, I'm on the east coast15:48
dhellmanncloser though15:48
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nijabayjiang5: nice!!15:48
dhellmanndreamhost is in LA, but I'm remote15:48
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yjiang5dhellmann: got it.15:48
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dhellmannstill, closer! :-)15:48
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dhellmannso about the backwards-incompatible change to the plugins…how do people feel about that? is that a rc1 change or havana?15:49
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dhellmannit's not really a new feature, but it would be a big change15:49
yjiang5dhellmann: you mean the one of 1counter 1 pollster?15:49
jd__I am pretty sure almost nobody wrote external plugins, so I don't care that much about compat at this point15:49
* nijaba would tend to think havanah...15:49
eglynnare there any "external" plugins in existence?15:50
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eglynn(that we know of ...)15:50
dhellmannjd__: that's what I was thinking. If we wait for havana, we have to support the api. if we change it now can we get away with not doing that?15:50
dhellmanneglynn: I have one here at dreamhost, but I can change it15:50
nijabayolanda was writing one, I think15:50
yjiang5I'm not sure if we really need take that way, can we have more discussion on it?15:50
nijabayjiang5: discussion is ALWAYS welcome15:50
jd__dhellmann: if the API wasn't released with Folsom, I think we can do whatever we want from my point of view15:50
dhellmannyjiang5: we can, but we do need to get rid of that O(n^3) configuration loop and I think further simplifying the API gives us part of that along with some other nice benefits.15:51
dhellmannjd__: we did have pollsters, but I don't think we were very formal about supporting that API. I wasn't sure if our incubation status changed the rules on that.15:51
yjiang5but also lose some flexibility.15:51
dhellmannyjiang5: I don't think we lose anything that we can't achieve in another way.15:51
jd__dhellmann: I'm waiting to see people with that API used15:52
dhellmannthe abstraction is wrong right now, because I thought we would want to turn off sets of counters, not individual counters15:52
dhellmannjd__: yeah, it's better to change it early and let it settle15:52
eglynnif we're sure it needs to be changed, seems best to do that before G is tied down15:52
dhellmannI'm sure. I guess I still need to convince yjiang5 :-)15:53
eglynnno point in creating legacy issues for ourselves ...15:53
yjiang5dhellmann: agree if we want to change API, ealier is better. But for this one, yes, I want more discussion :)15:53
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dhellmannyjiang5: ok. in the blueprint?15:54
yjiang5sure. or IRC later.15:54
dhellmannok, today may be bad for sync communication for me since I'm actually in the office (a bit distracting)15:54
dhellmannlet's see, though, and move to the blueprint if it doesn't work15:55
yjiang5ok. So I will comments on the blueprint.15:55
yjiang5btw, any more comments to the publisher interval patch?15:55
dhellmannyjiang5: I'm going to finish reviewing the latest version after our meeting15:56
yjiang5dhellmann: thanks!15:56
dhellmannI got about 1/2 way through before we started15:56
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nijabaanything else befvore I close the meeting?15:57
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nijabaThanks everyone for another great meeting15:57
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Feb 21 15:57:42 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:57
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sdagueqa meeting time?17:00
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sdagueor is everyone just exhausted from the free17:00
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Ravikumar_hpwest coast is fine17:01
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davidkranzI'm here.17:01
dwalleckI'm exhausted, just different problems :)17:01
* afazekas is here17:01
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davidkranzjaypipes: Here?17:01
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davidkranz#startmeeting qa17:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Feb 21 17:02:31 2013 UTC.  The chair is davidkranz. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:02
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:02
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davidkranzFirst, remember that is open for proposals.17:03
fnavalhi, i'm new.17:03
davidkranzfnaval: Welcome!17:03
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fnavaldavidkranz: thanks17:03
giulivoI take the chance, I'm also new17:03
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davidkranzThere are currently two proposals in the QA track.17:03
davidkranzI encourage every one to submit proposals for topics of interest.17:04
Ravikumar_hpdavidkranz: i am going to add 2 proposals17:04
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davidkranzRavikumar_hp: Excellent17:04
sdaguedavidkranz: yeh, I've got a few, but it will take me a week to sort it out17:04
dwallecksam and I have a few as well17:04
sdaguestill burned out from the rush of nova reviews17:04
davidkranzsdague: We still have some time. I just wanted to remind folks.17:04
sdagueso my brain's a little broken right now :)17:04
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davidkranz#topic Managing Reviews17:05
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davidkranzLooking at the list, we seem to be diong better on timely reviews.17:05
davidkranzThere is currently only one review without a -1 that is older than yesterday.17:06
afazekas <- this ?17:06
davidkranzafazekas: Yes.17:06
Ravikumar_hpdavidkranz: sometimes new reviewers added very late in review and it goes to some more patches17:06
davidkranzRavikumar_hp: Sure. I mentioned it because last week we said we would evaluate after two weeks whether we needed some kind of review days for core reviewers.17:07
Ravikumar_hpsuggest 3 reviewers from start to end17:08
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davidkranzRavikumar_hp: I thought two Core reviewers was sufficient.17:08
sdagueyeh, 2 cores is fine17:08
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dwalleckdavidkranz: ++17:08
davidkranzOK. I have a few topics but does any one else have a topic to bring up first?17:09
sdaguethough I highly encourage other folks to review that aren't core. I definitely take that input into account17:09
mlavalledavidkranz:  I want to report on the assignment the team gave me last week. The Jenkins problem with Quantum:
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davidkranzsdague: Yes, I agree. But the core reviewers are the ones on the hook.17:09
davidkranzmlavalle: Please.17:09
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mlavalledavidkranz: the problem is It's a year old test that uses the minimal network REST client provided  by Tempest. The client is for version 1.1 of the Quantum API, which is not available in DevStack anymore.17:10
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mlavalledavidkranz: I can patch the client to use Quantum API version 2. But before doing that, I want the team's feedback. For a Jenkins gate test, shouldn't we use the Quantum Python client instead of the minimal REST client in Tempest?17:10
mlavalledavidkranz: I can patch the client to use Quantum API version 2. But before doing that, I want the team's feedback. For a Jenkins gate test, shouldn't we use the Quantum Python client instead of the minimal REST client in Tempest?17:10
sdaguemlavalle: no17:10
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sdaguebecause that hides bugs that the clients paper over17:11
sdaguetempest should always have it's own REST client implementations17:11
mtreinishmlavalle: you should use the restclient. we are testing the api not the project client implementations17:11
dwallecksdague: ++17:11
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davidkranzsdague: I agree, but the tempest rest client could be a copy of the "real" one as was done pretty much with glance.17:11
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sdaguedavidkranz: we only copied one piece for chunked encoding upload17:11
mtreinishdavidkranz: the glance one is only there for one thing that httplib2 couldn't do17:12
mlavalledavidkranz: ok in that case I will upgrade the rest client to use version 2 of the Quatum API17:12
afazekasAre we going to rewrite  all tests in tempest/tests which using the libraries ?17:12
sdaguebecause it's kind of complicated17:12
dwalleckdavidkranz: It really should be more than a copy. Logging, serialization, metrics. There's a lot of data we can get from clients17:12
davidkranzMy point was that tempest should not need to reinvent the client code.17:12
sdagueafazekas: what other tests use client libraries, I thought it was only glance17:12
davidkranzIt just needs to "own" its own client code.17:12
sdagueI think that core tempest should not use the clients17:13
mlavalledavidkranz: I should have a patch ready for the Quantum rest client early next week17:13
sdagueI'm ok with other directories of tests that do17:13
davidkranzmlavalle: OK, great.17:13
sdaguewe're adding other things like cli tests, so we have precidence17:13
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chunwangsdague: what does cli test mean here?17:14
davidkranzdwalleck: I don't disagree. But the client is a really good starting point in most cases.17:15
davidkranzAnyway, that is up to the contributor of the tempest client.17:15
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afazekassdague: someone should announce it on the ML, before I staring to eliminate these client library anomalies ..17:15
davidkranzchunwang: Testing the cli for the real clients in tempest.17:15
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dwalleckdavidkranz: I partially agree. However, it would be better to have consistency across projects17:16
sdagueafazekas: sure17:16
davidkranzdwalleck: Yes, reducing it to a previously unsolved problem :)17:16
sdaguechunwang: comand line, jog0 has been working to add tests that run the openstack command line tools to make sure they don't blow up17:16
sdaguewhich they do under some surprising circumstances17:16
davidkranzsdague: That reminds me of the negative testing with fuzz issue?17:17
davidkranzAny one have any status on that?17:17
sdaguedavidkranz: as far as I know no ones worked on it17:17
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dwalleckmatt tesauro is leading that up from my group17:18
davidkranzdwalleck: Any status worth mentioning?17:18
dwalleckI believe he has a working prototype, bouncing it around a bit before pushing it in17:18
davidkranzdwalleck: Cool. I'd love to get a look at it.17:19
dwalleckHe'll actually be online for the sec meeting next. I can ping him to see what his schedule looks like17:19
sdagueit sort of raises another topic. I was hoping in the havana cycle we could lean on launchpad a bit more and actually set h-1, h-2, h-3 goals for blueprints we wanted to land17:19
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davidkranzsdague: +117:19
sdaguedwalleck: would be nice to see that in progress to understand how it fits with the rest of things17:19
chunwangsdague: do you mean the test for sth like nova-client?  Does it mean the tempest script will call the nova command line directly then validate the result whether as expected?17:19
sdagueincremental is good17:19
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sdaguechunwang: yes, it's a seperate directory, so it won't be in the main tempest tests, but yes17:20
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jaypipessdague: ++17:20
mtreinishsdague: ++17:20
jaypipesas for the discussion on the regular python client libraries from before... we have had that discussion probably 15 times over the last couple years.17:20
* sdague tries to figure out what the value of sdague is now17:20
jaypipespeople want it both ways.17:20
mtreinishsdague: 3?17:21
sdaguejaypipes: well cli tests kind of give us both ways :)17:21
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chunwangsdague: got it.17:21
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andreafsdague: ++17:21
mtreinishsdague: along that note are we going to branch a grizzly version of tempest?17:21
sdaguemtreinish: yes, we should at milestone proposed17:22
davidkranzmtreinish: Wr have to17:22
jaypipesmtreinish: another thing we always say we're going to do, then do it, and nobody maintains it.17:22
sdagueso there is a version that works on stable17:22
sdaguejaypipes: well it's more important that it doesn't change17:22
sdagueit's still used on stable gate jobs17:22
mtreinishok, because I didn't think we did for folsom17:22
afazekasCan we backport tests to the Folsom too ?17:22
davidkranzRight. It's purpose is to prevent regressions on stable releases.17:22
sdagueoh, maybe not17:22
sdaguebut the gate is only smoke17:23
sdaguefor < grizzly17:23
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sdagueso the chance of break is smaller17:23
davidkranzsdague: For grizzly we should make it behave just as it did before becoming a stable branch.17:23
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davidkranzsdague: Gating on all stable/grizzly projects.17:23
mtreinishnm, it was juat hidden on github ui for folsom17:24
sdaguedavidkranz: right, so I assume we cut stable at rc1 for the rest of the projects?17:24
sdagueactually, I don't know what previous policy was there17:24
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davidkranzsdague: That would be reasonable.17:25
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davidkranzIMO, we should not spend time backporting tempest changes to stable branches without a compelling reason.17:26
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davidkranzI would like to bring up the topic of how we are going to test both v2 and v3 of keystone.17:26
davidkranzThough we will have a similar issue with other projects that have more than one version, perhaps glance.17:27
davidkranzHas any one thought about that?17:27
mtreinishdavidkranz: for right now all the glance tests are v117:27
davidkranzmtreinish: That is not a good situation if v2 is part of grizzly.17:28
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sdaguedavidkranz: it would be good to test both versions I think17:28
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sdaguenova's going to have the same desire in havana as we cut a v317:28
sdaguewhich is going to change some of the tempest tests as we normalize return codes17:28
mtreinishdavidkranz: yeah it would be good to test both versions. I'll start working on that.17:28
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davidkranzsdague: Right. But it is tough to do with this being specified in tempest.conf unless we run a separate gate for each version, which doesn't really scale.17:29
afazekasnote: our glance endpoint definition does not contains a version..17:29
andreafdavidkranz: that's a good topic. in general how are we going to test multiple configurations on nova side? e.g. using autoassigned IPs or not, using libvirt driver or xen17:29
davidkranzI believe this is actually a big architectural issue (and performance one) that we have not addressed.17:29
andreafdavidkranz: for gate it doesn't scale, but perhaps we need other jobs to verify different configs17:29
sdaguedavidkranz: ok, well lets go experiment a bit and figure out if we have a compelling way to address it17:29
Ravikumar_hpdavidkranz: can we consult Keystone PTL17:30
chunwangWill the tempest developer team still recommend user to use latest master for test of different version after grizzly version branch?17:30
Ravikumar_hpwe are adding V3 tests as the functioanlity is getting complete17:30
davidkranzRavikumar_hp: Sure, but I think this is really a tempest issue.17:30
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jaypipesdavidkranz: the keystone endpoint should support BOTH v2 and v3 APIs simulataneously.17:30
sdaguejaypipes: agreed17:31
Ravikumar_hpyes. it does17:31
davidkranzThe question is do we run all the tests in both versions, plus new tests for the new version?17:32
jaypipesdavidkranz: so IMHO, we should just have the tempest keystone identity client query the endpoint base URI and get the v2 and v3 API root endpoints from the returned 30117:32
sdaguedavidkranz: we should run whatever the components support17:32
davidkranzjaypipes: Sounds good.17:32
sdagueeventually the deprecate the old apis, then we can pull them out17:32
jaypipesdavidkranz: we run all tests for whatever versions are returned in the 30117:32
afazekasas I mentioned on the ML, the services (clients), should not decide the endpoint on their own, they should get the base url from the constructor17:32
jaypipesafazekas: they should get the base URI from the uri value in the config file :)17:33
afazekasjaypipes: one for v2 and one for v3 ?17:33
davidkranzjaypipes: So we just need to change the code that processes the admin_url and remove the /2 in the config?17:33
jaypipesafazekas: no, the root URI is
davidkranzjaypipes: Are all OpenStack APIs going to behave the same way with multiple versions?17:34
jaypipesafazekas: have the rest_client subclass' tack on the v2.0/ and v3/17:34
afazekasyes, and it gets back service endpoint17:34
jaypipesdavidkranz: everything other than swift should.17:34
davidkranzjaypipes: :)17:34
davidkranzSo we just need to find out from the keystone devs when this will be ready to work. Or does it already?17:35
sdaguedavidkranz: yeh, it's supposed to in the spec. nova does it in theory, though we only have one API version right now17:35
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jaypipesdavidkranz: should work already.17:35
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dolphmjaypipes: +1, v3 auth merged yesterday17:35
jaypipesdavidkranz: glance, too.17:35
afazekasjaypipes: now every client acquires a token, and parses the token for endpoint, do we really need to do it in the "clients" ?17:35
jaypipesafazekas: no, we should cache it.17:36
davidkranzSo now we just need to know who is planning to make this change.17:36
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afazekasWe should cache it with global  cache used be all rest clients  to hide design glitches ?17:37
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jaypipesafazekas: but I will say... that the more we write code in these tempest rest clients, the more similar they end up looking like the darn upstream python client libs, so other than fuzz testing, I'm really beginning to question the need for them, frankly.17:37
jaypipesafazekas: especially with certain folks' push to make them object-oriented/resource-exposing.17:37
jaypipesafazekas: which essentially will just make them identical to the upstream python client libs, for good or bad.17:38
afazekasjaypipes: If we could eavesdrop the traffic done by the upstream clean, we would not need to implement our own clients in most cases17:39
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jaypipesafazekas: we can easily eavesdrop.17:39
afazekasjaypipes: If we could eavesdrop the traffic done by the upstream client, we would not need to implement our own clients in most cases17:39
jaypipesafazekas: monkeypatch the base request call with a simple decorator.17:39
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afazekasjaypipes: but in this case we need to modify code, which supposed to an analyses code17:40
jaypipesafazekas: I'm not following you, could you elaborate what you mean by that?17:41
afazekas If we using the client libraries, we should be try to use them, as it is considered not modified , and we are able to check the traffic, at the same time17:42
jaypipesafazekas: I'm talking about adding a simple decorator on the base client class' request() method that listens and records (with fixtures.Fixture.addDetail()) on the incoming and outgoing HTTP request calls17:43
jaypipesin other words...17:43
jaypipesimport novaclient.v1_1.client as c17:43
jaypipesfrom mock import patch17:43
afazekasafter module load, you would hook them..17:43
afazekasit is good17:44
jaypipespatch(client.request, some_listener)17:44
jaypipesthat's all...17:44
jaypipesnothing more than a simple listener/recorder, nothing changing the way the client worked.17:44
afazekasFirst it is sounds good..17:44
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afazekasWe can discuss the details later17:46
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davidkranzSo is there a proposal to change tempest policy in favor of "real" clients?17:47
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afazekasIt needs detailed plan before implementing anything17:47
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davidkranzafazekas: I meant a proposal in concept.17:48
davidkranzafazekas: Or policy.17:48
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afazekasMay be it will not fly , because of some unforeseen detail17:48
davidkranzafazekas: In order to evaluate that we would need a real requirement list for the client to determine if real clients could meet it.17:49
afazekasdavidkranz: lets consider it just an idea, until we do not have more detailed plan17:49
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davidkranzI'm not sure the list of objections to real clients was ever explicit.17:49
jaypipesdavidkranz: I think it's a good discussion for the summit.17:49
davidkranzjaypipes: +117:49
davidkranzjaypipes: Can you or afazekas submit one?17:50
afazekasmay be they are not letting us to make really bad thing, and some case is not testable17:50
afazekaslike violating pre-conditions17:50
jaypipesdavidkranz: the more we add to the tempest rest_client(s), the more they look virtually identical to the upstream libs. and until fuzz testing is handled in an automated/grammar-based way, the only way we can do negative testing is to use the tempest rest client and not the upstream libs.17:50
davidkranzafazekas: We have already excepted negative tests with fuzzing.17:50
davidkranzjaypipes: I understand.17:51
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jaypipesdavidha: exactly, so IMHO, we can't get rid of the tempest rest client until we have a grammar-based tool for negative testing17:51
afazekasdo we have a good fuzz-er anywhere ?17:51
davidkranzafazekas: Daryl is going to report on that. See above in this meeting.17:52
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davidkranzjaypipes: Agreed. I was thinking about new tests and new projects coming into integration.17:52
davidkranzjaypipes: Whether we make them write their own client.17:53
davidkranzjaypipes: tempest client, that is.17:53
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jaypipesdavidkranz: yeah... good point. not sure... I'd lean on the side of saying no.17:53
davidkranzjaypipes:  :) At the beginning of this meeting we told mlavalle "yes" I think.17:54
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davidkranzObviously this needs more discussion.17:55
davidkranzAny other issues before we close?17:55
mkollarodoes anybody know about any swift destruction tests?17:55
mkollarosimulating disk failures and such17:56
davidkranzmkollaro: I think all we know about is what is in Tempest now.17:56
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afazekas <- please review it :)17:57
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davidkranzOK, ready to close...17:58
davidkranzThanks all.17:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Feb 21 17:59:20 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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hyakuhei#startmeeting OSSG18:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Feb 21 18:01:42 2013 UTC.  The chair is hyakuhei. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OSSG)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ossg'18:01
hyakuheiGood morning/afternoon/evening all18:02
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hyakuhei#info bdpayne might not be able to make it to this meeting - he sends his apologies18:02
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hyakuhei#topic Encryption18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Encryption (Meeting topic: OSSG)"18:03
hyakuheiRight, so there's been a lot of discussion on-list regarding encryption, especially in regard to Cinder. Anyone care to comment / update?18:04
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hyakuheiWelcome guys :)18:04
hyakuheiTopic is 'Encryption' atm.18:04
hyakuheithere's been a lot of discussion on-list regarding encryption, especially in regard to Cinder. Anyone care to comment / update?18:04
rellerrellerThere is an email thread called "Volume Encryption" in dev mailing list18:05
rellerrellerThat one has been really active lately.18:05
hyakuheiYup, that's mainly what I'm referring to.18:05
hyakuheiThe thing that scares me is the lackluster discussion with regard to key management18:05
rellerrellerWe are talking about encryption problems with regards to clone and snapshot operations18:05
rellerrellerThere will be a discussion on key management at the April summit18:05
hyakuheiYeah, I know some of our Block Storage guys had some concerns there.18:06
mtesauroTangentially related, I have submitted a talk for the summit on a key management work that Rack is doing currently18:06
KiallPure fluke I noticed this meeting/topic - But Moniker (DNS service) would be interested in some sort of secure key storage too for DNSSEC signing keys etc18:06
rellerrellerWe plan to do a talk on disk encryption at the summit as well to talk about possible solutions for clones and snapshots18:06
mtesaurokey management is needed in many areas18:06
rellerrellerI think Malini also has a talk on key management18:06
hyakuheirellerreller: a dev discussion or a presentation (I forget the correct parlance)18:07
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rellerrellerA dev discussion18:07
hyakuhei#idea Share the love, vote on the security topics for the Summit18:07
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lglenden#link for the key manager dev discussion18:07
rellerrellermtesauro: which track did you register your talk?18:08
lglendenis there voting on the dev discussions or just the user sessions?18:08
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rellerrellerKeystone, cinder, etc18:08
hyakuheirellerreller: great. I'm really concerned about key management, in my experience with systems like this the easiest way to circumvent/undermine is typically to go after the key management18:08
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mtesaurohere's the link to the talk18:08
hyakuheilglenden: voting is just for the summit presentations18:08
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hyakuhei#link for the OSSG talk18:09
hyakuheiSo I think we can agree to meet up and discuss this at the summit.18:09
hyakuhei#topic Security Notes18:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Security Notes (Meeting topic: OSSG)"18:09
hyakuheiI have an outstanding action to publish the LXC note, I've got agreement from the OpenStack guys on how they'd like it to be done so I'll action that this week18:10
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hyakuheiDoes anyone else have ideas for security notes? I think we must all have a pocket full of 'configure it this way or its a security nightmare' thoughts - Security Notes are a way to document them for the rest of the community to use while we wait for the hardening guide.18:11
hyakuheiWell, if there's something you think might be relevant I'm happy to talk about it. Similarly I'm happy to do the write-up and publishing of OSNs for anyone who has issues they think should be documented in this way.18:13
hyakuheiAny comments/issues before we move on?18:13
hyakuhei#action hyakuhei - publish the LXC note, begin work on the next ones.18:13
hyakuhei#topic Hardening Guide18:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Hardening Guide (Meeting topic: OSSG)"18:14
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hyakuheiAt the last summit there was a really strong call for something along these lines. I think everyone is keen to see it happen but of course, everyone is busy trying to fix OpenStack!18:15
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mtesauroJust curious, why latex?  I'd think a more simple markup like markdown or aciidoc would lower the contribution threashhold.18:15
hyakuheiI'm going to get the outline turned into LaTeX this week. Happy to take any contributions and convert to tex if authors aren't comfortable withtex.18:15
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hyakuheiAcademic Snobbiness ?18:16
lglendenI've collected some feedback on the guide from my team, what is the best venue to discuss it?  the mailing list?18:16
hyakuheiI'm not against changing the format particularly.18:16
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mtesauroThat's great and all but if you want people to contribute, best to keep the stuff they have to know down to a minimum.18:16
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hyakuheilglenden: perhaps use the team mailing list or if you'd prefer to just mail it to bryan or myself18:17
mtesauroI've done Tex/Latex and its great but lots of people don't really like it or want to learn18:17
hyakuheimtesauro: You're correct18:17
lglendenhyakuhei: will do, I will start off with an email to you and Bryan18:17
KiallAlso - The existing doc team, and infra tooling don't do latex :)18:17
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hyakuhei#action current authors bdpayne and hyakuhei to discuss the proposal to move the Hardening Guide to a different format that's more accessible18:18
mtesauroOuch.  So what's a good alternative?  Whats the existing doc team using?18:18
hyakuheilglenden: thanks18:18
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hyakuheiWe're already using a close approximation of MD for Security Notes.18:18
Kiallmtesauro, the doc team uses DocBook and some Sphinx+RST thrown in18:18
hyakuhei#idea email with your suggestions for the (possible) reformat18:19
mtesauroInteresting.  I know you can go from asciidoc => DocBook.  Not sure about markdown18:19
hyakuheiI think there's a lot of value in following the way others are doing it.18:20
Kiallmtesauro, BTW I'm not saying anything about weather a switch is necessary.. Just worth pinging anne gentile and the infra guys before introducing a new format :)18:20
mtesauro@hyakuhei: Totally agree on that point18:20
hyakuheiAny concerns with doing the development of the docs inside of git?18:20
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mtesauroNot really - if we pick a non-binary format, it gives us version, branches, etc18:21
hyakuhei#action lglenden to email with some feedback on the hardening guide18:21
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hyakuheiOk, any more comments on the HG ?18:21
hyakuheiGo ahead :)18:21
noslzzpI have done a bit of work and will send a pull request tomorrow..18:22
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noslzzpand yes Tex is a problem for terms of time and proper tools.18:22
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hyakuheiFantastic! If we do a format change I'm happy to take on converting any existing content.18:22
noslzzpsome "hardening" best practices coming out of the federal government will be added..18:22
noslzzpthat is all. :)18:23
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mtesauro@noslzzp: If you're using Linux, look at Lyx - make Latex/Tex much nicer.18:23
hyakuheiFantastic - thanks for your contribution.18:23
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noslzzpOSX over here. :)18:24
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hyakuheiProbably not worth investing much time in tooling this week, in case we do decide to change the format ;)18:24
hyakuhei#topic AOB18:24
*** openstack changes topic to "AOB (Meeting topic: OSSG)"18:24
hyakuheimtesauro: How's the OWASP-OpenStack group coming?18:24
mtesauroI've got the Wiki page up, the mail list up and have ~6 queued requests to join I'm going to reply to today18:25
hyakuheiCool! Anything we can do to help, cross-linking etc just say.18:25
mtesauroNext steps is to see what interests the members have18:25
mtesauroYes, I'm trying to have suggested work for people who join.18:26
mtesauroAny suggestions ideas are very welcome18:26
mtesauroOpenStack is pretty broad so I hate to leave it up to them if they are interested but not sure how to help18:26
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hyakuheiYeah, well at least there's a lot to do ;)18:27
hyakuheiRight, one last topic, somewhat out-of-order.18:27
hyakuhei#topic Summit Meetup18:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit Meetup (Meeting topic: OSSG)"18:27
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mtesauroI will be at the summit and am game for a meetup18:29
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mtesaurodropped out and came back I see18:32
hyakuheiWe're over time so I'll close this out.18:32
hyakuhei #topic Summit Meetup18:32
hyakuheiI'll send a mail around but we should meetup. Either at,before or after one of the main events.18:32
hyakuheiAny votes/requests/demands on the back of a postcard.18:32
hyakuheiThank you to all of you for putting time into this group right at the start. It's going to become an important part of OpenStack, thanks to people putting in effort on day 1.18:32
hyakuhei #endmeeting18:33
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:33
openstackMeeting ended Thu Feb 21 18:33:21 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:33
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hyakuheiWell, that was slightly messy. How annoying that I dropped right at the end!18:33
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hyakuheiI wasn't sure if there was a meeting due to start right after us so didn't want to run over.18:34
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russellbanyone around for the nova meeting?21:02
russellbwell looky there21:03
russellbvishy: around?21:03
russellb#startmeeting nova21:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Feb 21 21:03:21 2013 UTC.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:03
russellb#chair vishy21:03
openstackCurrent chairs: russellb vishy21:03
dansmithis this where we pat ourselves on the back?21:03
dansmithor is that next week?21:03
russellbOur agenda is "..." or whatever vishy says :)21:03
russellbI don't think closing out g-3 went that bad personally21:04
russellbdefinitely busy21:04
vishylets do bugs21:04
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vishyand see if anyone has anything to prop for feature freeze21:05
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russellbon the bug front ... lots to triage:
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russellband we'll need to triage python-novaclient here soon too21:05
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russellbany last minute grizzly-3 blockers?21:06
vishyso triaging and fixing21:06
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vishyi've seen a few nasty ones but nothing that need to block21:07
russellbtrying to get in for grizzly-321:07
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1125378 in nova "VNC proxy can be made to connect to wrong VM" [High,In progress]21:07
dansmithyeah, I'm working on one that will be good for rc1 but critical for g321:07
russellbnot critical?21:07
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dansmithnot critical, yes, thank you :)21:07
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russellblaunchpad says 200 bugs fixed in grizzly-321:09
russellbnot counting things we fixed without bothering to file a bug, heh21:09
VekI'm sure there's lots of those :)21:09
russellbso if we focus on bugs for rc, we should be able to break 200 right?21:09
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russellbvishy: have you received any FFE requests?21:10
vishyrussellb: are you going to backport that to milestone-proposed21:10
russellbi feel like last time around we had a bunch to consider21:10
vishyrussellb: not yet no21:10
russellbvishy: i can backport it once it merges, sure21:11
russellbvishy: still TBD on who will do the backports, we may need a volunteer21:11
vishymaybe we should have volunteers due the backport of the sec bug21:11
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russellbi emailed John (original author)  but it sounds like he may not have time to get it done as quickly as we'd like since it's a vuln21:11
vishyrussellb: so folsom might be extra tricky because we can't bump the rpcapi21:12
vishyin compute21:12
vishyrussellb: thoughts?21:12
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russellbwell ...21:12
vishywe could skip the validate part of it i suppose21:13
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russellbthat's pretty  nice though21:13
vishyi don't know if consolerpc was versioned back then21:13
russellbit was in folsom21:13
russellbnot essex though21:14
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russellbit bumped compute too though, that's the trick21:14
vishyrussellb: might take a core to tackle that one21:14
russellbcould maybe just do it as adding a new method instead of changing one21:14
vishyjust due to rpc concerns21:14
russellbyeah ...21:14
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russellbok so any volunteers want to tackle a tricky security backport?  :)21:15
russellbi can't tonight, but i can hit it tomorrow if nobody else wants it21:15
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russellbk, just emailed John and told him I'd get the backport to save him some pain21:16
russellbRemember kids, report security issues as private bugs and patches, kthx ^_^21:17
russellbsoooooo ... what else is up21:18
sdagueare we going to get private gerrit on next cycle?21:18
sdagueI know that was talked about at one point21:18
russellbttx has been talking to -infra about that a lot.  I'm not sure the current status.21:18
clarkbsdague: I think jeblair and ttx have been talking about it. I haven't been clued into what the current state of those talks is21:19
russellbso ... any other bugs?  FFE discussion?  RC concerns?21:21
sdaguehonestly, I think we merged so much code during the run up that people aren't asking for FFE21:22
vishyi think we did pretty well this time21:22
russellbfun times.21:22
russellbvishy: same here21:22
sdagueyeh, I need a nap though :)21:22
russellbso, design summit proposals are open ... summit.openstack.org21:22
russellb11 for Nova so far21:22
vishyi started making a list of important nova features that missed21:23
ttxsdague: probably not21:23
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russellbwell congrats on a quiet meeting right after the feature freeze, shall we close and take a nap?21:25
vishyfine by me21:25
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"21:25
openstackMeeting ended Thu Feb 21 21:25:54 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:25
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