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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: hey luis_fdez | 14:35 |
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| rerngvit | hello | 14:58 |
| dachary | \o | 14:58 |
| garyk | hi | 14:58 |
| rerngvit | I'm here for scheduler meeting | 14:58 |
| garyk | me too | 14:58 |
| rerngvit | :) | 14:58 |
| primeministerp | rerngvit: hyper-v meeting | 14:59 |
| jgallard | hi | 14:59 |
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| primeministerp | is in channel | 14:59 |
| primeministerp | er channel | 14:59 |
| primeministerp | in a minute | 14:59 |
| garyk | rerngvit: is the scheduler meeting on this channel? | 14:59 |
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| rerngvit | garyk: from https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Scheduler_Sub-group_meeting, it seems so | 15:00 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting scheduler | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 30 15:00:20 2013 UTC. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scheduler' | 15:00 |
| rerngvit | I might be wrong | 15:00 |
| primeministerp | garyk: there is another channel | 15:00 |
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| primeministerp | for meeting | 15:00 |
| primeministerp | s | 15:00 |
| n0ano | Indeed, the scheduler starts now on this channel | 15:00 |
| n0ano | Show of hands, who all is here | 15:00 |
| n0ano | o/ | 15:00 |
| primeministerp | n0ano: so does the hyper-v | 15:01 |
| primeministerp | which has for some time | 15:01 |
| HenryG | Hyper-V is at 1600 UTC (one hour from now) according to the wiki | 15:01 |
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| n0ano | what HenryG said, I checked the iCal and the wiki and didn't see a conflict | 15:01 |
| HenryG | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Nova_Hyper-V_team_meeting | 15:01 |
| garyk | best effort scheduling. heh | 15:01 |
| rerngvit | haha | 15:01 |
| primeministerp | we're going to be quick today | 15:02 |
| primeministerp | if you want to wait | 15:02 |
| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 15:02 |
| openstack | primeministerp: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. | 15:02 |
| primeministerp | perfect | 15:02 |
| n0ano | NP, let me end the scheduler, as long as you're quick | 15:02 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 30 15:02:41 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-04-30-15.00.html | 15:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-04-30-15.00.txt | 15:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-04-30-15.00.log.html | 15:02 |
| primeministerp | ok | 15:02 |
| * n0ano always issues when starting something new :-) | 15:02 | |
| primeministerp | looks like i'm off | 15:03 |
| primeministerp | looks like i'm off | 15:03 |
| primeministerp | sorry guys | 15:03 |
| n0ano | primeministerp, so, do you want the channel for a few minutes or can we take it back? | 15:04 |
| rnirmal | primeministerp: in 1 hr :) | 15:04 |
| primeministerp | you can take it back | 15:04 |
| n0ano | primeministerp, tnx | 15:04 |
| primeministerp | np | 15:04 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting scheduler | 15:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 30 15:04:27 2013 UTC. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scheduler' | 15:04 |
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| n0ano | once more with feeling, show of hands for the scheduler meeting | 15:04 |
| n0ano | o/ | 15:04 |
| rerngvit | i am here | 15:04 |
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| rerngvit | :) | 15:05 |
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| garyk | i am here for the scheduling | 15:05 |
| rnirmal | I'm new.. wasn't there at the summit but interested in a few topics of scheduler discussions | 15:05 |
| glikson | hi | 15:05 |
| winston-d | hi | 15:05 |
| n0ano | rnirmal, no problem, all are welcome | 15:05 |
| rerngvit | the same here, I am also new. | 15:06 |
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| winston-d | n0ano: this is zhiteng | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | winston-d, hi | 15:06 |
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| winston-d | n0ano: hi Don | 15:06 |
| senhuan | Hi guys | 15:06 |
| jgallard | hi | 15:06 |
| garyk | senhuan: hi | 15:07 |
| n0ano | #topic administrivia | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "administrivia (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:07 | |
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| senhuan | Garyk: hi | 15:07 |
| glikson | senhuan: hi | 15:07 |
| n0ano | Just a little administrivia to start, this is currently scheduled for a weekly meeting, I think we've got enough topics for that now | 15:07 |
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| n0ano | As things go on, with any luck, we can go to a less frequent schedule | 15:08 |
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| HenryG | I'm just going to lurk, but I am interested in learning how we might some day take into account "available network bandwidth" when scheduling. | 15:08 |
| glikson | ..or more frequent :-) | 15:08 |
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| n0ano | I've created an agenda based upon the issues from the Havanna summit, feel free to make more suggestions on other items | 15:08 |
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| n0ano | glikson, good thing you had a smiley on that :-) | 15:09 |
| garyk | HenryG: hopefully if and when we get quantum to provide the network proximity we can have the scheduler consume that... | 15:09 |
| glikson | n0ano: can you remind where the agenda is? | 15:09 |
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| n0ano | glikson, I sent out an email to the dev mailing list, I'll try and get better and add it to the wiki page | 15:09 |
| garyk | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Scheduler | 15:10 |
| garyk | n0ano: ^ | 15:10 |
| rerngvit | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-April/008242.html | 15:10 |
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| Senhua | Garyk: i have an even wilder idea. Scheduler should be able to use information provided by other parties | 15:10 |
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| n0ano | garyk, there is the issue of where to get the network data, quantum or ceilometer so this becomes a much wider issue | 15:10 |
| rerngvit | 1) Extending data in host state | 15:10 |
| rerngvit | 2) Utilization based scheduling | 15:10 |
| rerngvit | 3) Whole host allocation capability | 15:10 |
| n0ano | Senhua, +1 | 15:10 |
| rerngvit | 4) Coexistence of different schedulers | 15:10 |
| rerngvit | 5) Rack aware scheduling | 15:10 |
| rerngvit | 6) List scheduler hints via API | 15:10 |
| rerngvit | 7) Host directory service | 15:10 |
| rerngvit | 8) The future of the scheduler | 15:10 |
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| glikson | ok, the wiki is empty. np. | 15:11 |
| n0ano | glikson, startup issues, I intend to expand it | 15:11 |
| garyk | rerngvit: n0ano: ensembles/vclusters is missing from the list | 15:11 |
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| n0ano | we're not going to get to everything today so adding that on is fine | 15:12 |
| n0ano | in fact, why don't we discuss future agenda items a bit | 15:12 |
| n0ano | #topic agenda items | 15:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "agenda items (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:12 | |
| n0ano | So far we need to add: | 15:12 |
| glikson | are we going through the items in any particular order? e.g., those for which we already have blueprints, or vice versa? | 15:12 |
| n0ano | 1) network bandwidth aware scheduling (and wider aspects) | 15:13 |
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| n0ano | 2) ensembles/vclusters | 15:13 |
| n0ano | glikson, after we come up with issues I'd like to start in the current order | 15:13 |
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| n0ano | e.g. the issues from the summit (most of which had bps) and then new items. | 15:14 |
| rerngvit | #agree | 15:14 |
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| n0ano | OK, I'm hearing silence on new items (sending email to the dev list is always welcome if we think of things later) so to begin | 15:15 |
| n0ano | #topic extending data in host state | 15:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "extending data in host state (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:15 | |
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| n0ano | I have a BP to address this but there seems to be another almost identical one outstanding so I have to coordinate between the two proposals | 15:15 |
| n0ano | I didn't hear any objections to the idea at the summit, is that the consensus on this call, this is a good idea? | 15:16 |
| glikson | maybe you can post here the URLs, for reference? | 15:16 |
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| rerngvit | one main question is should the data be moved to Ceilometer. | 15:16 |
| n0ano | They're in the etherpad from the summit, I can scrounge them up | 15:17 |
| rerngvit | URLs please | 15:17 |
| n0ano | rerngvit, not sure, I'm not sure I want to make the scheduler totally dependent upon ceilometer, I'd rather have ceilometer as an enhancement | 15:17 |
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| glikson | seems that there is an agreement that it is a generally useful capability -- the question is whether there is a concrete enough proposal on what can/should be done in Havana? | 15:18 |
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| n0ano | url for the etherpad - https://etherpad.openstack.org/HavanaSchedulerFeatures | 15:18 |
| dachary | n0ano: +1 ceilometer is a great source of measure for the scheduler but there is no reason why it should be mandatory | 15:18 |
| Senhuang | I agree that we should keep the data in nova for mow. | 15:19 |
| rerngvit | ok | 15:19 |
| jgallard | dachary, +1 | 15:19 |
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| n0ano | glikson, I know I'm talking about supporting plugins that entend the periodic data that is sent to the scheduler, pretty concrete and easy enough to do I believe. | 15:20 |
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| winston-d | dachary: +1 | 15:20 |
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| rerngvit | nOano: do you mean the ResourceTracker or other component? | 15:21 |
| n0ano | rerngvit, yes, I'm talking about the resource tracker | 15:21 |
| glikson | n0ano: how would you maintain it in host manager? key-value pairs? is it complementary to 'stats'? | 15:21 |
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| n0ano | glikson, yes, basically have a resource dictionary with a set of key/value pairs | 15:23 |
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| n0ano | plugins could add new key/value pairs and appropriate scheduler filters could utilize those values | 15:23 |
| rerngvit | but the 'stats' is already a dictionary | 15:23 |
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| rerngvit | how it differs? | 15:24 |
| n0ano | I think I wanted to leave stats for compatibility purposes and make the new stuff new but I'm open to suggested changes | 15:24 |
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| n0ano | tell you what, let me coordinate with the other effort and then we can discuss the nitty gritty details at next weeks meeting | 15:25 |
| n0ano | I can also send out reference material so we all know what we're talking about | 15:25 |
| rerngvit | hmm, I think that's a good idea | 15:25 |
| garyk | n0ano: agreed. we need to go ovber the high level details and then see how to address each | 15:25 |
| glikson | ok, sounds good | 15:25 |
| n0ano | #action n0ano to bring a more detailed proposal to next weeks meeting | 15:26 |
| n0ano | tnx everyone, this is very helpful so far | 15:26 |
| n0ano | #topic utilization based scheduling | 15:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "utilization based scheduling (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:26 | |
| rerngvit | ok, I can help a bit then. | 15:26 |
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| glikson | I guess this one is highly related in terms of metrics collection.. using stats. | 15:27 |
| rerngvit | for this, as I was working on the blueprint | 15:27 |
| rerngvit | yes, exactly | 15:27 |
| n0ano | indeed, turns out my BP is in this section when it should be more properly in the prior one | 15:27 |
| rerngvit | we were submitting a patch (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18462/) but was rejected in the end | 15:28 |
| rerngvit | the reason was that it was not clear how this should be implemented. | 15:28 |
| rerngvit | the way the patch work is separated into two parts. | 15:28 |
| rerngvit | The first part collecting utilization, which is extending the 'stats' dictionary in the resource tracker. | 15:29 |
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| glikson | it might make sense to enable different frquencies of sending updates to the scheduler, or even entirely different mechanisms for static vs dynamic metrics.. | 15:29 |
| rerngvit | While the second part, in two new filters utilizing those utilization | 15:29 |
| glikson | maybe 'stats' could be the way for more dynamic metrics.. | 15:30 |
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| n0ano | I think this is pretty much what I wanted to do with plugins (while not addressing the frequency of update issue) | 15:30 |
| garyk | i am not sure of the details but are average, peak and current utilization reported? | 15:32 |
| n0ano | garyk, reported by whom? | 15:32 |
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| glikson | another potential enhancement could be to do some level of aggregation before sending to the scheduler.. anyway, at some point it does make sense to use a more generic metrics collection mechanism, I guess. | 15:33 |
| rerngvit | it keep multiple samples, says previous 10 collects. | 15:33 |
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| glikson | but it seems reasonable to have some that within Nova | 15:33 |
| garyk | n0ano: the hosts will need to notify the scheduler. or is this via ceilometer? | 15:33 |
| rerngvit | so that derived statistics like average and peak, can be computed afterward | 15:33 |
| glikson | maybe it might make sense to introduce a metrics collection API within Nova, and have one implementation using PRC within Nova, and another one using Ceilometer. | 15:34 |
| n0ano | rerngvit, who does the computing afterward, the compute node or the scheduler | 15:34 |
| n0ano | glikson, we already have communication from compute node to scheduler, isn't that sufficient (no new API needed) | 15:35 |
| rerngvit | nOano: I'm 80% sure on this but should be the compute node | 15:35 |
| n0ano | n0ano, I agree, better to spread the work out among all the compute nodes. | 15:36 |
| glikson | n0ano: the thing is that it doesn't have to be via direct RPC between nova-compute and the scheduler.. | 15:36 |
| n0ano | glikson, not sure how that would work | 15:37 |
| glikson | it could be an abstract API, sith RPC backend and Ceilometer backend | 15:37 |
| glikson | *with | 15:37 |
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| garyk | i think that ceilometer has agents that already do something like this. | 15:37 |
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| n0ano | glikson, note that I don't think we want the scheduler calling the nodes, we want the compute nodes sending to the scheduler | 15:38 |
| glikson | we can decide what semantics to define.. maybe pub-sub. | 15:38 |
| rerngvit | I think Pub-sub is a good idea. | 15:39 |
| rerngvit | But, as glikson mention, probably, Ceilometer might have something already like this. | 15:39 |
| n0ano | I'm not necessarily adverse, just need a lot more detail | 15:39 |
| glikson | anyway, I am just saying that it seems pretty clear that more than one implementation might make sense, and we can start by defining an abstract API, with a simple implementation (basically refactoring the existing one), and few incremental enhancements. | 15:40 |
| n0ano | glikson, +1 (as long as we keep any refactoring with a mind to the ultimate goal) | 15:41 |
| rerngvit | glikson +1 | 15:41 |
| glikson | we took similar approach with service heartbeat (service group APIs), and it worked well (I think). | 15:42 |
| n0ano | winding down on this topic a bit, rerngvit do you want to take to lead to move this forward? | 15:42 |
| * russellb thought this meeting was 1500 UTC? | 15:42 | |
| rerngvit | yes. | 15:42 |
| n0ano | russellb, according to my clock it is now 15:43 UTC | 15:43 |
| rerngvit | However, I simply don't know how. This is my first Opensource project involvement. | 15:43 |
| russellb | oh, i just suck at times zones | 15:43 |
| n0ano | russellb, welcome to the club | 15:43 |
| n0ano | s/club/club :-) | 15:43 |
| russellb | also means i have a conflict every week | 15:44 |
| rerngvit | hello, russlelib | 15:44 |
| n0ano | rerngvit, not problem, we don't bite | 15:44 |
| russellb | so i'd like someone to attend the nova meeting on thursdays each week to provide a roll-up summary on what this group is up to | 15:44 |
| n0ano | russellb, sorry, this was the best compromise I could come up with | 15:44 |
| russellb | no problem, i know not everyone can make it no matter what you pick! | 15:44 |
| russellb | just letting you know i'm not ignoring | 15:44 |
| n0ano | russellb, depends, what time is the nova meeting | 15:45 |
| russellb | 2100 UTC | 15:45 |
| garyk | i am unable to make that time | 15:45 |
| rerngvit | sorry, it's 10pm in my timezone, not very convenient | 15:45 |
| garyk | sorry | 15:45 |
| n0ano | that's should be 3PM MDT, I can commit to doing that | 15:45 |
| glikson | this would be 2400 UTC in my timezone.. not perfect | 15:45 |
| glikson | sorry, just 2400 | 15:46 |
| n0ano | #action n0ano to attend nova meeting to provide rollup of this meeting | 15:46 |
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| winston-d | come on, folks, i've got used to 2300/2400 meetings for a year. :) | 15:46 |
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| n0ano | #action rerngvit to address utilization based scheduling at the next meeting | 15:47 |
| rerngvit | ok, then we should try to define the abstract API then. | 15:47 |
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| rerngvit | oki, do ki | 15:47 |
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| n0ano | moving right along, I think we have time for one last agenda item today | 15:47 |
| n0ano | #topic whole host allocation capability | 15:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "whole host allocation capability (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:47 | |
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| n0ano | anyone online who can talk to this (not my area) | 15:48 |
| winston-d | is phil here? | 15:48 |
| garyk | n0ano: regarding the ensembles/vclusters. Senhua Huang, glikson and I will try and propose an API next week (sorry I am just butting in0 | 15:49 |
| glikson | russellb: FYI, last thing we discussed was to try defining a new internal API to handle metrics (e.g., pub-sub), and have rpc-backed implementation (similar to what is there today), and potentially maybe also Ceilometer-backed one. | 15:49 |
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| n0ano | garyk, np, getting prepared is good. | 15:49 |
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| glikson | n0ano: maybe we should defer phil's topic(s) till next meeting | 15:50 |
| n0ano | hearing silence on this topic, I'll keep it for next week | 15:50 |
| rerngvit | agree. | 15:50 |
| n0ano | note that I don't want things to get out of hand, I'll probably drop agenda items if there's no discussion in 2 consecutive meetings | 15:51 |
| glikson | should we move to #4 then? | 15:51 |
| n0ano | moving on | 15:51 |
| n0ano | #topic coexistence of different schedulers | 15:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "coexistence of different schedulers (Meeting topic: scheduler)" | 15:51 | |
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| glikson | I've jsut created a new bluprint on this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/multiple-scheduler-drivers | 15:52 |
| n0ano | glikson, do you want to provide an overview or should we do our homework, review your BP and talk about it next week? | 15:52 |
| glikson | essentially the idea is to allow overriding the defition of scheduler driver for specific host aggregates | 15:53 |
| rerngvit | I can't access the specification. | 15:53 |
| n0ano | rerngvit, the link works fine for me | 15:54 |
| glikson | rerngvit: strange.. | 15:54 |
| rerngvit | (Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page or the information in this page is not shared with you.) :( | 15:54 |
| rerngvit | it's ok. I can try to solve the issue later | 15:55 |
| johnthetubaguy | (so previous whole host scheduler thing, I am interested, just have meeting clashes at the moment, sorry) | 15:55 |
| n0ano | my mistake, the BP is fine, the specification is restricted as rerngvit says | 15:55 |
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| garyk | the link on the BP is problematic | 15:55 |
| n0ano | johnthetubaguy, will you be able to talk about this issue next week at this time? | 15:55 |
| glikson | you mean, the URL within the bp? it doesn't point anywhere at the moment. | 15:55 |
| russellb | for blueprints, make sure you follow the instructions i put in a message last week to get them into the havana roadmap | 15:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | n0ano: I can try | 15:56 |
| n0ano | johnthetubaguy, that's all we can ask, tnx | 15:57 |
| rerngvit | russlelib, could you please provide a link to the message? | 15:57 |
| russellb | https://twitter.com/russellbryant/status/327094906994688000 | 15:57 |
| n0ano | all - aproaching the hour, let's end things here and continue on next week | 15:57 |
| russellb | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-April/007788.html | 15:57 |
| rerngvit | russelib:thx | 15:58 |
| n0ano | I want to thank everyone, talk to you again in a week (if not via email before then) | 15:58 |
| garyk | n0ano: thanks! | 15:58 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 15:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 30 15:58:33 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-04-30-15.04.html | 15:58 |
| garyk | senhua: ping | 15:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-04-30-15.04.txt | 15:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scheduler/2013/scheduler.2013-04-30-15.04.log.html | 15:58 |
| rnirmal | n0ano: btw update this page.. you can update it as needed for the next meeting https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Scheduler | 15:58 |
| senhua | garyk: i was in a different room. | 15:59 |
| n0ano | rnirmal, that's my goal, I'll try and do that. | 15:59 |
| rerngvit | noano thanks | 15:59 |
| senhua | garyk: i will check the transcript | 15:59 |
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| garyk | senhua: ok. would it be possible that we continue with where we left off tomorrow? | 15:59 |
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| senhua | garyk: yes | 16:00 |
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| garyk | senhua: great. alex would also like to take part. i'll mail you a bit later. | 16:00 |
| senhua | garyk: the same time might be a little bit difficult for me. | 16:00 |
| glikson | anyway, one of the basic questions I had was whether it could be a reasonable approach to update scheduler manager, so that instead of just reading 'driver' from CONF, it would call a method that would choose the driver dynamically. | 16:00 |
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| winston-d | glikson: did you get a chance to take a look at previous 'multi-scheduler'? | 16:01 |
| senhua | glikson: i like the approach of having the method call the driver/filters dynamically. | 16:01 |
| glikson | winston-d: yes. it is somewhat similar, but different :-) | 16:02 |
| rnirmal | senhua: glikson we did something similar in cinder with the multi-backend | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 30 16:02:57 2013 UTC. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | hi all sorry for the delay | 16:03 |
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| primeministerp | bit of a confusion today | 16:03 |
| senhua | rnirmal: that is interesting. i will have a look at the codes | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | this is going to be a quick meeting | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | I sent out a short agenda | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | #topic havana update | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "havana update (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:03 | |
| primeministerp | post havana summit we're are finalizing our plans for the development work | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | Hi guys! | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: howdy | 16:04 |
| *** rerngvit has left #openstack-meeting | 16:05 | |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: anything to add | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | I'm typing on the phone | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: most had to leave due to the timing mixup | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | Looks good | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | fair enough | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | continuing | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | Darn daylight saving :-) | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | we'll resume next week w/ final area we'll be concentrating on | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | but the key ones were discussed during the summit session | 16:06 |
| primeministerp | #topic puppet bits | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "puppet bits (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:07 | |
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| primeministerp | so additionally i've started coordinating w/ luis from CERN regarding the puppet work | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | and collaboration | 16:07 |
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| primeministerp | we'll be resuming that discussion later in the week | 16:07 |
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| primeministerp | we'll resume normally next week. | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 16:08 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 30 16:08:30 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:08 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-04-30-16.02.html | 16:08 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-04-30-16.02.txt | 16:08 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-04-30-16.02.log.html | 16:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | for those looking for the XenAPI meeting, we need to find a time that doesn't clash | 16:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | probably go back to the old time | 16:22 |
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| rnirmal | johnthetubaguy: I don't think there was a clash... just daylight savings | 16:23 |
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| johnthetubaguy | we are both listed as Tuesday at 16UTC at the moment, we tried to move due to day light savings too | 16:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | doh! | 16:30 |
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| stevemar | hello keystone folks | 18:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
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| dolphm | o/ | 18:00 |
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| spzala | Hello! | 18:01 |
| dolphm | ayoung: topol: bknudson: o/ | 18:01 |
| dolphm | henrynash is out | 18:01 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| dolphm | termie: o/ | 18:01 |
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| topol | Hello | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 30 18:01:56 2013 UTC. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #topic New core reviewers | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New core reviewers (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| dolphm | yay for termie and bknudson! | 18:02 |
| bknudson | dolphm: thanks | 18:02 |
| topol | congratulations!!! | 18:02 |
| stevemar | congrats | 18:02 |
| bknudson | I +2d this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27832/ | 18:02 |
| spzala | Congratulations! | 18:02 |
| bknudson | what's the "Approve" section? we don't have that in our internal gerrit. | 18:02 |
| dolphm | bknudson: marking as Approved starting the gating & merge process | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: wait until you're the second +2 to mark Approve | 18:03 |
| dolphm | #topic High priority bugs or immediate issues? | 18:03 |
| bknudson | dolphm: ok. on our internal gerrit there's a submit button. | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "High priority bugs or immediate issues? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
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| dolphm | keystone gate seems to have been gunked up all week? this should fix it according to bknudson https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27832/ | 18:04 |
| dolphm | not sure what the underlying problem is there, but i'd prefer an actual fix rather than a revert if anyone has looked into it | 18:04 |
| bknudson | Here's the original: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20231/ | 18:05 |
| dolphm | someone pinged the mailing list about the same issue last week, not sure who that was? | 18:06 |
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| dolphm | (any other fires?) | 18:08 |
| dolphm | #topic Havana blueprints | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Havana blueprints (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:09 | |
| dolphm | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/havana | 18:09 |
| spzala | dolphm: no sissue here but this backporting candidate needs to be reviewed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27364/ ayoung is fine with changes (and had +1 it) and I had addressed some some of henry nash's comments. | 18:09 |
| dolphm | spzala: cool, let's get jenkins to +1 first and then circle back :) | 18:10 |
| dolphm | spzala: ping me about it later today | 18:10 |
| spzala | dolphm: ha ha | 18:10 |
| spzala | dolphm: OK sounds good. thanks! | 18:10 |
| ayoung | Keystone! | 18:10 |
| dolphm | regarding havana blueprints, that's the list of blueprints i opened or approved as a direct result of conversations at the summit | 18:10 |
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| dolphm | if there are any other outstanding blueprints that you or someone you love are personally planning on pursing in Havana, let me know because i'd like to add them to that list | 18:11 |
| dolphm | ayoung: welcome! | 18:11 |
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| bknudson | dolphm: one thing we'd like to add is support for IBM DB2 as database. | 18:11 |
| ayoung | dolphm, cool. You've probably seen a lot of churn from me on blueprints. I'm trying to use it as a way to provide common conversation around these things. I'll ping you when I think anything is close to ready for approve/deny | 18:12 |
| dolphm | ayoung: thanks | 18:12 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: let me know if the opposite is true as well (if a blueprint doesn't look like it's going to result in a change, we can mark it as obsolete) | 18:12 |
| jaypipes | hi all... | 18:12 |
| dolphm | jaypipes: o/ | 18:12 |
| ayoung | bknudson, is DB2 completely Free and Open Source available these days? | 18:13 |
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| bknudson | it's not open source. | 18:13 |
| jaypipes | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27563/ <-- Proposed Regions CRUD extension for v3.1 API... | 18:13 |
| bknudson | there's a free version available. | 18:13 |
| ayoung | bknudson, that is free as in "free fousand quid, govnuh." | 18:13 |
| bknudson | http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/db2/express-c/download.html | 18:14 |
| topol | bknudson, clarify what you mean. you want to add a driver to allow for integration? | 18:14 |
| dolphm | blueprints that must be completed by havana-m2 or they won't land in havana: bp inherited-domain-roles, bp store-quota-data, bp first-class-regions, bp notifications, bp catalog-optional, bp endpoint-filtering | 18:14 |
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| dolphm | these are all API-affecting blueprints | 18:14 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I would state that you should make sure any patches that go in to the SQL layer work against DB2, but I don't think we should add it to gate. | 18:15 |
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| bknudson | topol: just like you can configure keystone to work with mysql or postgresql, should work with DB2. | 18:15 |
| dolphm | jaypipes: thanks, will review today | 18:15 |
| bknudson | ayoung: that's fine. | 18:15 |
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| topol | dolphm, I added a blueprint today https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/keystone-ldap-anonymous-binding how do I get it to show up on your havana radar? | 18:15 |
| bknudson | maybe we could add it as a nongating test sometime. | 18:15 |
| ayoung | bknudson, it might be worthwhile to look at the things that we are starting to do per db type and make sure that there is a reasonable catchall, that covers Oracle and DB2, but we won't explicitly reference them | 18:16 |
| ayoung | topol, let me look at it first | 18:16 |
| dolphm | topol: that list is based on the Series Goal option -- do you have access to that? | 18:16 |
| termie | topol: the db stuff is pretty straightforward to add as contrib, too | 18:16 |
| termie | topol: for example i have a cassandra backend that is going that route | 18:16 |
| topol | dolphm, no just have milestone target | 18:17 |
| ayoung | topol, needs to be fleshed out first. I assume you mean that LDAP is read only, and there is no simple bind done for the manager account to read the user list etc? | 18:17 |
| dolphm | topol: k, i set it for you -- any others? | 18:17 |
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| topol | ayoung, its easy, wanting to do an anonymous simple bind, obviously read only | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | topol: sounds easy; priority? | 18:18 |
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| ayoung | topol, write the spec in order to explain it to someone that doesn't understand the LDAP backend. | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | topol: sounds like a low to me | 18:19 |
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| dolphm | it's also linking to a blank etherpad, but i'm not sure it needs a spec link at all? | 18:19 |
| topol | ayoung, will do. dolphm, priority can be whatever you like. I will get it done for havana. | 18:19 |
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| dolphm | something should also specify what new config options will be introduced, and how they'll be used, etc | 18:19 |
| topol | yes, was in the middle of updating and got sidetracked. will complete it today | 18:19 |
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| gyee | topol, you need a bp for anonymous bind? | 18:20 |
| topol | dolphm, agreed. I will add the details | 18:20 |
| gyee | you can just add it right? | 18:20 |
| topol | gyee, as a bug instead of bp? | 18:20 |
| ayoung | topol, so we want to support multiple ways of authing to LDAPO, with simple bind just being the frist implemented. Kerberos is important as well. The way of specifying how to configure the LDAP connection should not be hard coded to 'basic' or 'anonymous' | 18:20 |
| gyee | bug | 18:20 |
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| dolphm | gyee: blueprints are handy to tell people "hey i'm working on this" and even more handy come Havana release when we can pull up a list of bp | 18:21 |
| dolphm | 's and see what new features merged | 18:21 |
| dolphm | gyee: it's definitely NOT a bug | 18:21 |
| topol | Im happy to write the BP. it will be short | 18:21 |
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| dolphm | we have too many bugs that are feature requests as it stands | 18:21 |
| topol | 3 more BPs and I get an instagram account :-) | 18:21 |
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| topol | and a $5 steam gift card | 18:22 |
| ayoung | BTW, might I suggest that you assign yourself as the assignee on a blueprint, or we will close it after a month assuming it is abandoned? No sense in writing one assuming someone is just going to pick it up to implement | 18:22 |
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| gyee | dolphm, already then | 18:23 |
| topol | ayoung I did. I thought I did | 18:23 |
| gyee | bp for a one line change :) | 18:23 |
| ayoung | topol, speaking to the larger audience | 18:23 |
| topol | gyee.... shhhhh and hey its needs a config option added too | 18:24 |
| dolphm | gyee: yep, plus docs and tests | 18:24 |
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| topol | yeah that stuff too | 18:24 |
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| gyee | damn straight | 18:24 |
| dolphm | ayoung: that makes sense for very specific use case driven bp's, but some bp's are very broad and deserve to remain open until someone comes along and commits themselves to it | 18:24 |
| ayoung | dolphm, then they can hand it off, I think. | 18:25 |
| dolphm | ayoung: s/broad//generally useful/ | 18:25 |
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| ayoung | I own it until someone takes mine of my hands. | 18:25 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: as the person who opened it, you will always be the stakeholder | 18:26 |
| ayoung | dolphm, do you know if the UI can somehow list the drafter? | 18:26 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yes, that's dead center on the bp page | 18:26 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yeah, there is just no way to sort the list by anything other than assigned | 18:26 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, when you create the blueprint, you can list yourself as the drafter, or to change it once you've found, but there is no way to manage those that you have drafted | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | ah...if you go to the assignments page... | 18:28 |
| ayoung | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+assignments | 18:28 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+assignments | 18:28 |
| topol | ayoung, so I got a concern on your json config bp. I have been told you cant put comments in json. That makes it a bad choice for config options. | 18:28 |
| topol | plz tell me Im wrong | 18:29 |
| dolphm | topol: +1 | 18:29 |
| gyee | topol, good point | 18:29 |
| dolphm | json is absolutely horrible for config | 18:29 |
| ayoung | topol, you are not wrong. | 18:29 |
| gyee | why do we want json config? | 18:30 |
| ayoung | gyee, not necessarily json, just a way to split out the LDAP config into its own piec,as it is getting huge, but there might be better approaches | 18:30 |
| ayoung | The Attribute Mapping piece might make sense having a file backing as opposed to a database, for example, and that would fall into the same category | 18:31 |
| ayoung | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/json-for-ldap | 18:31 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: " | 18:32 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: "big" isn't a good reason to change the config format at all | 18:32 |
| ayoung | gyee, also, if we support multiple LDAP backends, the configuration will start to get confusing as well. | 18:32 |
| dolphm | that's just a pointless breaking change | 18:32 |
| topol | Ideally all the ldap related config will be in a single file. I prefer to have in a single place | 18:32 |
| bknudson | maybe ldap section needs more structure. | 18:32 |
| gyee | ini format will do fine | 18:32 |
| ayoung | gyee, that may be...I just wanted JSON to be the starting point for the discussion, not YAML | 18:33 |
| ayoung | There are many ways to skin it, | 18:33 |
| gyee | ayoung, I prefer ASN.1 :) | 18:33 |
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| bknudson | we could store the config in an ldap directory | 18:33 |
| topol | maybe move it to the bottom of keystone.conf if we think it will clutter stuff? | 18:33 |
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| bknudson | maybe have sections like [ldap.user] for all the user_ options, etc. | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | topol, so, I think the LDAP config is probably going to merge with the Kent teams attribute mapping work. And I want it to be revision control-able. Doesn't have to be JSON, but we need a reasonable file format for it. | 18:34 |
| gyee | ayoung, what's wrong with ini | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | But lets not have adesign discussion here...25 minutes less | 18:35 |
| dolphm | ayoung: we have a oslo.config, i'd suggest we work with that | 18:35 |
| gyee | +1 | 18:35 |
| ayoung | dolphm, sounds good | 18:35 |
| topol | +1 | 18:35 |
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| atiwari | are we looking for run time config change? in that case JSON would better work | 18:37 |
| ayoung | so...one issue I think worth addressing that might affect several blueprints is the size and scope of the identity backend. I think we should conisder splitting it. I think that the project and roles piece can easily be separate from users and groups. And then the mapping piece ties the two together | 18:38 |
| bknudson | ayoung: sounds good | 18:38 |
| ayoung | I think that projects are openstack specific concepts, as are roles, whereas users and groups come from an Identity store like LDAP | 18:38 |
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| gyee | atiwari, LDAP config is static | 18:39 |
| topol | ayoung domains goes with the projects and roles, correct? | 18:39 |
| ayoung | we can state that if no explicit backend is specified for projects, it defaults to the identity backend | 18:39 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung: ooh i like that. | 18:39 |
| ayoung | topol, domains are potentiall separate. The chain of domains thing. But even if we don't do that, we can still allow this split | 18:40 |
| ayoung | topol, but if domains stay, they would stay in the identity piece and be consumed by the projects side | 18:40 |
| topol | ayoung, what would be an explicit backend? As opposed to the default identity backend? | 18:40 |
| topol | we have an sql identity backend. an ldap identity backend. what are you referring too? | 18:41 |
| ayoung | projects | 18:41 |
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| topol | OK | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | back in a minute..real world interrupt | 18:42 |
| dolphm | ayoung: interesting logic to split the backend on | 18:42 |
| dolphm | i'd put domains with projects, as both are openstack concerns | 18:43 |
| dolphm | or have domains be discrete | 18:43 |
| bknudson | I like discrete domains. | 18:43 |
| dolphm | termie would too | 18:43 |
| topol | dolphm +1 | 18:44 |
| dolphm | 'default' | 18:44 |
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| dolphm | oops... the default domain driver could literally just provide a static 'default' domain | 18:44 |
| dolphm | satisfies the ldap issue | 18:45 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I like discrete domains | 18:45 |
| ayoung | dolphm, there is an argument in favor of that from the LDAP side, too | 18:45 |
| dolphm | ayoung: have you already filed a bp on this split somewhere? | 18:45 |
| * termie looks for something called "discrete domains" | 18:45 | |
| ayoung | say you are doing what the IBMers are pushing for, which is keystone fronting multiple LDAP servers | 18:45 |
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| bknudson | the config entries for domain_driver could point to the same identity driver anyways. | 18:46 |
| dolphm | termie: moving domains into their own driver | 18:46 |
| dolphm | termie: ... or extension | 18:46 |
| ayoung | then each is adomain, but neither can provide the enumeratation of the overall domain list | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | and, people like rackspace still need the ability to create one domain per customer | 18:46 |
| termie | dolphm: +1, mostly i think it should be applied in an AO kind of way rather than interjected all over | 18:46 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I wrote an etherpad, not quite blueprint yet, as it was just brainstorming, on the domain thing | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/chain-of-domains | 18:47 |
| gyee | how do you provide cross-domain permissions | 18:47 |
| gyee | federation? | 18:47 |
| ayoung | I was thinking file for the domains, but should be a driver arch like the other backends | 18:47 |
| ayoung | gyee, you could say "this domain is external and provided by that keystone over there..." | 18:48 |
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| topol | Im concerned I couldnt find a stakeholder for chain of domains. Can we point to anyone who wants this? | 18:48 |
| ayoung | Wouldn't call it Federation, though | 18:48 |
| ayoung | topol, chain of domains is the etherpad name | 18:49 |
| dolphm | gyee: it could be implemented as federation from the same keystone endpoint? | 18:49 |
| ayoung | the bp would be "split domains from identity" | 18:49 |
| ayoung | but probably now | 18:49 |
| ayoung | "split identity into separate backends" | 18:49 |
| gyee | and we need to have user that is visible to all domains | 18:49 |
| gyee | this is important for public cloud, for support and auditing | 18:49 |
| dolphm | gyee: explain? | 18:49 |
| dolphm | "visbile to all domains"? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | gyee, visible is different from assigned | 18:50 |
| gyee | accessible to all domains | 18:50 |
| ayoung | gyee, a user in one domain can be provided access to a project in another | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | that doesn't change | 18:50 |
| Sameer | . | 18:50 |
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| termie | ayoung: i don't think this blueprint is organized enough to warrant much discussion at this point | 18:51 |
| gyee | ayoung, I thought you mean there's no way to list all the domains | 18:51 |
| gyee | yeah, lets write something up and discuss | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | termie, yep, just wanted it on people's radar. We can have the dicussion out of the meeting | 18:51 |
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| ayoung | #action ayoung write up blueprint for splitting identity | 18:52 |
| termie | ayoung: well, you are going to discuss it for ever if you don't add some structure that people can reference | 18:52 |
| termie | ayoung: i am not sure that "splitting identity" has anything to do with this "cbhain of domains" idea | 18:52 |
| termie | ayoung: but kudos to you for coming up with the vaguest name today | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | termie, it can be two blueprints that reference each other, either way | 18:52 |
| gyee | ayoung was just trying to fillerbust the meeting :) | 18:53 |
| termie | ayoung: lulz, now you have two problems | 18:53 |
| dolphm | ooh circular references in bp's! | 18:53 |
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| ayoung | OK...so I create one blueprint that is an abstract base class.... | 18:54 |
| ayoung | anyway, next agenda item? | 18:54 |
| dolphm | #topic open discussion | 18:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:54 | |
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| dolphm | i think we're already at open discussion anyway | 18:54 |
| termie | when are having a keystoners offsite? | 18:54 |
| ayoung | ah, cool. | 18:54 |
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| dolphm | termie: november 4th? | 18:54 |
| topol | whats that? | 18:54 |
| gyee | in Hong Hong | 18:54 |
| ayoung | termie, lets have it in Yosemite | 18:55 |
| gyee | Kong Kong | 18:55 |
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| gyee | Hong Kong | 18:55 |
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| termie | ayoung: yosemite is pretty nice, but november might be late, maybe sept? | 18:55 |
| termie | er | 18:55 |
| termie | dolphm: ^ | 18:55 |
| ayoung | how many people thing that they are actually going to be headed to HK? Seems like it might be poorly attended. | 18:55 |
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| topol | is this a prevacation before the next summit? | 18:56 |
| termie | ayoung: i'll be there | 18:56 |
| ayoung | Sept is Big wall season. Works for me | 18:56 |
| topol | Im hoping to goto Hong Kong | 18:56 |
| dolphm | i'll definitely be there | 18:56 |
| stevemar | is there usually something in between summits? | 18:56 |
| topol | usually Hong Kong events on cloud stuff get big crowds | 18:56 |
| termie | stevemar: no, but we're cool | 18:57 |
| dolphm | stevemar: we can start a new tradition | 18:57 |
| dolphm | the pre-summit offsite | 18:57 |
| ayoung | I'm planning on it, too, but the travel budget is tight, and we have a lot of people on Open Stack. Need to make the argument to the decision makers that I should go. | 18:57 |
| termie | ayoung: don't tell them you work on keystone | 18:57 |
| dolphm | termie: +1 | 18:57 |
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| termie | ayoung: sure way to be sidelined | 18:57 |
| topol | what??? Keystone gets big respect over here in big blue land | 18:58 |
| ayoung | termie, heh, they know already. | 18:58 |
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| topol | its not like its ceilometer or something... | 18:58 |
| termie | topol: orly? all that most people i know want out of keystone is to make the validate call faster | 18:58 |
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| termie | topol: which is why it is so easy for me to say no to things all the time | 18:59 |
| dolphm | heat | 18:59 |
| topol | (Just kidding, I have folks working on ceilometer) | 18:59 |
| termie | topol: you are some sort of puppetmaster | 18:59 |
| stevemar | termie: so many puppets! | 18:59 |
| termie | Brad "I've got people on that" Topol | 18:59 |
| topol | termie, its called LEADERSHIP | 18:59 |
| stevemar | topol: kidding :P | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | termie, so I wonder if the PKI token in memory validation means that we have made it faster or slower. | 19:00 |
| termie | Steve "Yes sir!" Martinelli | 19:00 |
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| ayoung | stilltrying to get some performance numbers on that | 19:00 |
| termie | ayoung: v3 api means you have made it slower ;) | 19:00 |
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| ayoung | termie, PKI went in prior to that, though, and auth_token middleware doesn't use v3 | 19:00 |
| ayoung | but actually, it shouldn't matter, as validation is kindof agnostic to the token format | 19:01 |
| ayoung | OK, we're over time | 19:01 |
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| termie | would love if somebody wanted to set up more perf stuff, btw, otherwise i'll eventually have to get off my ass and do it | 19:01 |
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| termie | EVERYBODY OUT | 19:01 |
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| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 30 19:02:49 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-04-30-18.01.html | 19:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-04-30-18.01.txt | 19:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2013/keystone.2013-04-30-18.01.log.html | 19:02 |
| dolphm | i need a 2pm meeting over notice | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | dolphm: not a bad idea | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 30 19:03:46 2013 UTC. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| ttx | ~o~ | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| topol | isnt that just the next ptl yelling at you | 19:03 |
| topol | to get off | 19:04 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:04 |
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| clarkb | o/ | 19:04 |
| fungi | heyoh! | 19:05 |
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| jlk | o/ | 19:05 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:05 |
| jeblair | mordred: are you above 10,000 feet yet? :) | 19:05 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:05 |
| jeblair | #topic items from last meeting | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "items from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
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| jeblair | fungi: slaves? | 19:06 |
| fungi | yup | 19:06 |
| fungi | rhel6 slaves have been replaced by centos6 slaves and destroyed/deleted | 19:06 |
| fungi | the change to switch the node labels (i added temporary compatability labels ahead of time) is in the process of merging | 19:07 |
| jeblair | cool | 19:07 |
| fungi | it also adds some periodic centos6 bitrot jobs so dprince can ferret out the remainder of patches needing backports | 19:07 |
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| fungi | and i disabled and eventually deleted the precise unit test slaves too | 19:07 |
| fungi | since those hadn't been used for a month or more | 19:08 |
| mordred | w00t | 19:08 |
| jeblair | i believe the stable 2.6 tests are the last thing that holds us back from dropping oneiric? | 19:08 |
| fungi | i think that's the current status on slave versions at the moment | 19:08 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: yes | 19:08 |
| jeblair | fungi: sounds good! | 19:09 |
| fungi | yeah, dprince is working on sorting the last few patches he needs for that | 19:09 |
| fungi | oh | 19:09 |
| fungi | also i cleaned up our puppeting to make it easier to add debian slaves should we want/need to do so later | 19:09 |
| jlk | or sooner... | 19:09 |
| clarkb | that segways us into "what do we do about >= 13.04 having only 9 months of support?" | 19:09 |
| jeblair | good, i like having a plan b | 19:09 |
| fungi | someone on the tc (hint mordred) needs to strike up the conversations around all that | 19:10 |
| jeblair | #topic jenkins slave operating systems | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "jenkins slave operating systems (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
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| clarkb | rackspace does have a raring image now fwiw | 19:10 |
| mordred | merp | 19:10 |
| * clarkb checks hpcloud | 19:10 | |
| mordred | oh good | 19:10 |
| jeblair | mordred: you had some thoughts about that last week; want to chat about those? | 19:10 |
| mordred | the idea was that since we're not supposed to break rhel/lts | 19:11 |
| clarkb | no raring on hpcloud | 19:11 |
| mordred | that we use lts nodes to do testing of stable+1 | 19:11 |
| clarkb | mordred: my concern with that is while we are not supposed to break lts how do we know we havent? | 19:12 |
| mordred | and maintain our focus otherwise on current ubuntu release for dev purposes of master | 19:12 |
| jeblair | mordred: by stable+1 do you mean two releases back? eg, folsom now? | 19:12 |
| mordred | yes. stable+1 == folsom now | 19:12 |
| fungi | good thing our precise unit test slaves needed to be rebuilt on rackspace nova anyway, so deleting them was not wasted work | 19:12 |
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| mordred | and I'd say that since stable branches are really the purview of the distros and they've pledged to support things on their lts release | 19:12 |
| fungi | (well, all but 2 of the 16 anyway) | 19:12 |
| mordred | there's a clear ownership for problems | 19:13 |
| mordred | Daviey: you around? does the above sound reasonable to you? | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | mordred: what do we use to test 2.6 on master? | 19:13 |
| clarkb | jeblair: centos | 19:13 |
| mordred | centos | 19:14 |
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| clarkb | that problem exists even without the 9 month support | 19:14 |
| mordred | or hell - debian apparently has all pythons :) | 19:14 |
| fungi | and i assume lts for stable+1 means the lts which was current at the time stable+1 was developed/released, not whatever the latest lts is (which might not be the same occasionally) | 19:14 |
| jeblair | i'm wondering why we should bother testing on non-lts at all? (which i think is pretty similar to what clarkb is saying?) | 19:15 |
| fungi | mordred: i wouldn't say all, but wheezy will have 2.6, 2.7 and 3.2 in main, with 3.3 in backports | 19:15 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: correct | 19:15 |
| ttx | fungi: with Ubuntu's cloud archive latest LTS is where you would find stable+1 | 19:15 |
| mordred | jeblair: because our devs focus on current release, not on lts | 19:15 |
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| mordred | and for good reason | 19:15 |
| ttx | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/CloudArchive | 19:16 |
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| zul | ttx: not necessarily a new version of python | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | mordred: sure, but your plan is to bump testing of a project that was tested on latest back to lts at a more or less arbitrary point in time | 19:16 |
| jlk | wheezy is probably not a good target either, unless you want to shuffle it again soon | 19:16 |
| jeblair | mordred: so if that's going to work, why won't just testing on the lts to start with work? | 19:17 |
| mordred | jeblair: we could test on both the whole time and then just drop "latest" when it dies | 19:17 |
| mordred | sequencing, I believe | 19:17 |
| mordred | new things go in to master, tested against latest ubuntu | 19:17 |
| clarkb | we have been really bad at changing platforms for various reasons | 19:17 |
| mordred | they will be backported to cloud archive for lts, but probably not until they've landed on master I'd imagine | 19:18 |
| mordred | new features are not landed against stable branches | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | we are only just recently on quantal (~6 months after release) and devstack is still all precise | 19:18 |
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| mordred | so the needs for preemptive backporting don't exist | 19:18 |
| clarkb | if we have to iterate that quickly just to drop support 3 months later that feels like a lot of wasted effort to me | 19:18 |
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| mordred | clarkb makes a good point that most of this is theory and not practice | 19:19 |
| zul | wait what are you guys trying to do? | 19:19 |
| mordred | zul: you guys new support lifecycle broke ours | 19:19 |
| fungi | well, i consider the time i spent getting tests running on quantal will be applicable toward getting them running on raring anyway | 19:19 |
| mordred | zul: our stable branches need testing for 12 months | 19:19 |
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| zul | mordred: how? | 19:19 |
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| mordred | but ubuntu only now exists for 9 months at a pop | 19:19 |
| ttx | mordred: sounds like revenge :) | 19:19 |
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| mordred | ttx: likely :) | 19:19 |
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| mordred | zul: so we're trying to sort out how to test changes to stable+1 branches | 19:20 |
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| zul | mordred: we wouldnt get revenge ;) | 19:20 |
| clarkb | now we could just automagically switch to $newrelease when they come out and break the gate | 19:20 |
| zul | mordred: why not 12.04 with the coud archive enabled | 19:20 |
| mordred | because | 19:20 |
| ttx | zul: we can't continue to test grizzly/raring when raring goes out of support, and we need it for 12 months, and you now provide 9 instead of 18 | 19:20 |
| mordred | zul: sorry, that's what I was proposing | 19:21 |
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| clarkb | with the expectation that a week after ubuntu releases we spend a couple days fixing all the things | 19:21 |
| zul | mordred: that sounds sane to me | 19:21 |
| clarkb | but if we try to put things in place workign I think we will always be well behind the curve | 19:21 |
| mordred | clarkb: you mean for master? | 19:21 |
| clarkb | mordred: yes | 19:21 |
| * fungi dislikes the kind of scramble "taking a couple days to fix all the things breaking the gate" implies | 19:21 | |
| mordred | clarkb: I think our problem has historically been the slow speed our cloud vendors have in providing us images | 19:21 |
| zul | well all of the stuff is gotten from pip isnt it? | 19:21 |
| mordred | zul: libvirt | 19:21 |
| fungi | and python itself | 19:22 |
| jeblair | mordred: clarkb, fungi, and dprince have put a huge amount of effort into upgrading to quantal, and we're not done yet | 19:22 |
| mordred | which, btw, is broken on redhat (python itself) | 19:22 |
| zul | mordred: libvirt is not a problem the cloud archive gets the same version whats in the development release | 19:22 |
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| mordred | jeblair: agree | 19:22 |
| clarkb | mordred: my issue is that if we switch to raring at the end of havana (as we switched to quantal afte rgrizzly) then we have only 3 months of support on that before we drop back to LTS | 19:22 |
| jeblair | clarkb: we shouldn't have waited that long | 19:22 |
| clarkb | so its not just the stable branches that are at issue. we *will* have to iterate much faster than we have been able to | 19:22 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yeah that | 19:22 |
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| mordred | well, problem 1 is that it takes so long for us to be able to _start_ migrating | 19:23 |
| jlk | the worry is that changing the test platform in the middle of a release cycle introduces more churn than desired? | 19:23 |
| mordred | but - I'm willing to not die on this hill | 19:23 |
| clarkb | jlk: it is a lot of churn that we give up on shortly after (to me the benefits are fuzzy but the costs are known and expensive) | 19:23 |
| jlk | nod | 19:24 |
| mordred | if everyone else thinks that lts+cloud-archive is sane for master, then fine... I just worry that we're going to hit backport hell like we had 2 years ago | 19:24 |
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| jlk | and the flip side is that continuing to test on a dead-end platform isn't providing much benefit in the Real World? | 19:24 |
| mordred | but it's also possible that we've stabalized and I'm being an olld curmudgeon | 19:24 |
| zul | mordred: you shouldnt since you guys are getting the python dependencies from pypi | 19:25 |
| mordred | zul: yeah. and I think libxml and libvirt are reasonably sane from an api perspective at this point | 19:25 |
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| mordred | I'm game | 19:25 |
| clarkb | mordred: if we could get rackspace and hp to commit to having images available in a decent amount of time (thank you rackspace for raring) I think we could try speeding the cycle up | 19:25 |
| zul | mordred: hah libvirt sane | 19:25 |
| mordred | clarkb: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA | 19:25 |
| jlk | the desire is for something newer than LTS, but with longer support than Ubuntu now has | 19:25 |
| clarkb | mordred: exactly | 19:25 |
| mordred | clarkb: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA | 19:26 |
| mordred | sorry | 19:26 |
| mordred | I repeated myself | 19:26 |
| clarkb | if we are beholden to other people it is really hard to promise with such a short window | 19:26 |
| mordred | yes. I believe the story will be a bit different once we have glance api endpoint available, but they are not now | 19:26 |
| jlk | clarkb: is it just Ubuntu images you're in need of, or would fast access to other platforms (like Fedora) help as well? | 19:26 |
| clarkb | jlk: right now its just ubuntu | 19:26 |
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| mordred | jlk: fedora would not be helpful | 19:26 |
| fungi | from my perspective, the desire is for something which has the versions of system components we need (python et al) and decent run time for security support into the future | 19:26 |
| jlk | ok. (just trying to understand the problem scope) | 19:27 |
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| mordred | jlk: when people talk about cloud interop - this is one of the things that doesn't get talked about enough | 19:27 |
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| jlk | image availability, or platform to run on? | 19:27 |
| clarkb | jlk: the TC decided in january that we would tset on latest ubuntu with an eye for not breaking current RHEL and Ubuntu LTS | 19:27 |
| mordred | without image upload ability, we're stuck waiting until BOTH clouds upload new images | 19:27 |
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| jlk | nod | 19:27 |
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| clarkb | we are going to use centos to test python 2.6 as ubuntu has ditched 2.6. That covers current RHEL | 19:28 |
| jlk | is somebody working on image upload capability on the RAX side? (understanding that it's not a problem for raring at this time) | 19:28 |
| mordred | yes. both clouds want it as a feature | 19:28 |
| clarkb | so now we need to accomodate testing on current ubuntu or ask the TC to reconsider the platforms we test on or ???? | 19:28 |
| mordred | well - the policy has always been dev on latest ubuntu | 19:28 |
| mordred | however, I do not believe we have EVER actually been able to do that | 19:28 |
| mordred | due to lag time | 19:29 |
| mordred | we've pretty consistently been at least one release behind | 19:29 |
| jeblair | https://etherpad.openstack.org/python-support-motion | 19:29 |
| * jlk cries a little to himself, softly. | 19:29 | |
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| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/python-support-motion | 19:29 |
| mordred | so it might just be time to call a spade a spade and go with a new plan | 19:29 |
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| fungi | distro making release + all providers of interest making images available of that release + time for us to test and fix things we need working on that release + time to switch tests over to it | 19:30 |
| jeblair | technically the tc agreed on a motion about targeting development. it wasn't quite so specific to specify exactly what test platforms, but i think the intent is that we should use it to guide what we do | 19:30 |
| mordred | I agree | 19:30 |
| mordred | however, I betcha we could do the lts+cloud archive for testing | 19:30 |
| mordred | as a vehicle to support that motion | 19:31 |
| zul | +1 | 19:31 |
| mordred | and have few enough corner cases that anyone would ever notice | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | mordred: it sounds like that's worth a shot, and if we get into dependency hell, then we know we have a reason to speed up the treadmill | 19:31 |
| mordred | since cloud archive has latest ubuntu backports of the relevant bits | 19:31 |
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| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:31 |
| mordred | so.... | 19:32 |
| mordred | we may want to add an apt mirror for the cloud archive | 19:32 |
| mordred | as I do not believe our providers are doing local mirrors of it | 19:32 |
| mordred | or mayubbe it doesn't matter? | 19:32 |
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| jlk | seems like Ubuntu is going to be trying to do that work anyway (keeping OStack releases going on LTS) so making use of that effort makes sense to me. | 19:32 |
| fungi | if we're going to that trouble, it seems sane to just mirror what we need in general (rackspace's ubuntu mirror has gone down from time to time too) | 19:33 |
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| clarkb | fungi: ++ | 19:33 |
| mordred | fungi: I have a reprepro config for it already actually | 19:33 |
| jeblair | mordred: you want to drop that in puppet then? | 19:34 |
| mordred | we'd need cloud-local mirrors | 19:34 |
| mordred | which I'm not 100% sure how to solve - but I'll put my brainhole on it | 19:34 |
| fungi | i continue to wonder if cloud-local (one per az or whatever) mirrors don't also make sense for our pypi mirroring | 19:34 |
| jeblair | mordred: i think devstack-gate can accommodate that fairly easily | 19:35 |
| jlk | mordred: that'd be our own instances acting as a mirror, because of fear that the provider provided mirror might go down? | 19:35 |
| clarkb | jlk: correct | 19:35 |
| jeblair | mordred: (in the image creation step, do provider-specific apt-source config) | 19:35 |
| clarkb | jlk: and they do go down occasionally | 19:35 |
| mordred | jeblair: yes. although I'd like to figure it out for unittest slaves too | 19:35 |
| jlk | clarkb: but doesn't that just cause them to hit the next mirror (maybe more slowly)? | 19:35 |
| jlk | forgive me, I come from the yum world | 19:36 |
| zul | jeblair: besides you know who to bug if something breaks ;) | 19:36 |
| fungi | jlk: the bigger issue is, the more external bits we rely on being reachable for tests, the more their outages multiply each other (multiple points of failure rather than just a single point of failure) | 19:36 |
| jeblair | mordred: actually, if you solve it for unit test slaves in puppet , you might not have to do anything special for devstack-gate. | 19:36 |
| clarkb | jlk: no apt usually complains then dies | 19:36 |
| jlk | clarkb: awesome :/ | 19:36 |
| jeblair | mordred: (even though unit test slaves don't strictly need it right now because they are one-provider) | 19:36 |
| jlk | fungi: I understand that. What I didn't quite grasp was that apt doesn't have a mirror system to fail through | 19:36 |
| mordred | jeblair: let me poke and see if there is a pure-puppet mechanism I can dream up | 19:37 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:37 |
| jeblair | #action mordred set up per-provider apt mirrors (incl cloud archive) and magic puppet config to use them | 19:37 |
| fungi | jlk: yeah apt expects to try one url to retrieve a package, and then errors out rather than continuing to spend time trying other urls | 19:37 |
| jlk | sad | 19:38 |
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| fungi | well, the alternative is to take lots of time to realize your network is broken and it's not a mirror issue | 19:38 |
| jlk | so really, doing our own is just moving the potential problem closer to us | 19:38 |
| jeblair | so, er, we're dropping the quantal slaves and going back to precise? | 19:38 |
| jeblair | jlk: which tends to work out for us | 19:39 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I really want to say no, because quantal has 18 months of support | 19:39 |
| jlk | fungi: *shrug* in the yum world that could be a matter of seconds or so. But you never suffer from a single mirror being out of date or down. | 19:39 |
| clarkb | but doing quantal then going back to precise is just weird | 19:39 |
| fungi | when is the next ubuntu lts due? | 19:39 |
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| clarkb | 14.04 | 19:40 |
| clarkb | one year | 19:40 |
| * fungi thinks doing quantal and then upgrading to wheezy doesn't sound *that* weird ;) | 19:40 | |
| clarkb | (we may want to move onto other topics before our hour is up) | 19:40 |
| fungi | concur | 19:40 |
| jlk | +1 | 19:40 |
| clarkb | I think we have a good handle of the problem with a general solution. we can sort out details later | 19:40 |
| jeblair | hrm | 19:41 |
| jeblair | details are important? | 19:41 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i think you just said that we have decided to test "I" on precise | 19:41 |
| jlk | details are important, but consensus may not be reached during meeting. | 19:41 |
| clarkb | definitely but so are things like gerrit 2.6, lists.o.o, logstash, etc :) | 19:41 |
| jeblair | clarkb: and we're either planning on testing "H" on either quantal or precise? | 19:41 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: that is how I grok | 19:41 |
| jeblair | i think that's kind of an important point to resolve so we don't go off-track... | 19:42 |
| fungi | will 14.04 be available in time for the "ifoo" development timeframe, or not until "jbar"? | 19:42 |
| jeblair | if you want, we can punt to the next meeting for time, but i don't want to start work on this project without resolving that. | 19:42 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ++ I don't intend on things changing until we have consensus | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | okay, i'll put this on the agenda for next time then | 19:43 |
| jeblair | however, the agenda wasn't updated since last time, so, what else would you like to discuss? :) | 19:43 |
| clarkb | woops. I know gerrit 2.6, lists.o.o, and logstash are things that are on my radar | 19:44 |
| mordred | bunnies | 19:44 |
| fungi | does anyone have anything specifically for me? i need to duck out early (another minute or two) | 19:44 |
| mordred | nope | 19:44 |
| jeblair | #topic gerrit2.6 | 19:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit2.6 (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:44 | |
| clarkb | also I'd like to talk about testr maybe as we should really push that hard before people get wary of merging those changes | 19:44 |
| mordred | I believe zaro is going to start looking at 2.6 | 19:44 |
| * fungi ducks out. back in #-infra later if something comes up | 19:45 | |
| zaro | just started reading docs. | 19:45 |
| mordred | awesome | 19:45 |
| jeblair | zaro: can you find-or-create a bug in openstack-ci about upgrading to 2.6 and assign it to yourself? | 19:45 |
| zaro | jeblair: sure will. | 19:45 |
| clarkb | as I understand it the intent with gerrit 2.6 is to no longer run a fork of gerrit | 19:45 |
| clarkb | is that correct? | 19:46 |
| mordred | zaro: welcome to the traditional hazing gerrit tasks - everyone has had one when they started ... :) | 19:46 |
| jeblair | i would like to not run a fork | 19:46 |
| mordred | clarkb: yes. if possible | 19:46 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:46 |
| zaro | mordred: thanks a lot. clarkb warned me during interview. | 19:46 |
| clarkb | awesome | 19:46 |
| jeblair | if we have to diverge, i'd like us to try to do it in a way where we expect the divergence to be accepted upstream | 19:46 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:46 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:46 |
| clarkb | I ask because I think this will influence the upgrade process | 19:46 |
| clarkb | want to make sure we are on the same page. sounds like we are \o/ | 19:46 |
| jeblair | yeah, it's not just forward-port patches, it's gap-analysis, and try to figure out the easiest way to close | 19:47 |
| jeblair | clarkb: +1 | 19:47 |
| jeblair | #topic lists.o.o | 19:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "lists.o.o (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:47 | |
| jeblair | clarkb: TTL is already 300 | 19:47 |
| clarkb | so I just booted and puppetted a replacement server for lists.o.o (old server is oneiric which will EOL in just over a week) | 19:48 |
| jeblair | clarkb: so dns is ready to change when you are | 19:48 |
| clarkb | ok. I will set temporary DNS records for the new host after this meeting. | 19:48 |
| jeblair | we should announce a cutover time | 19:48 |
| clarkb | I will start the data migration after the 1st to avoid any mailman monthly emails | 19:48 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes. Is this something that we think needs to happen over a weekend? | 19:49 |
| clarkb | (I am leaning that way) | 19:49 |
| jeblair | and as i mentioned in -infra a few mins ago, i think we should avoid having exim send over v6 to start | 19:49 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:49 |
| jeblair | though i think it's okay to add AAAA records | 19:49 |
| jeblair | (and have exim receive on v6) | 19:49 |
| * mordred agrees with every opinion jeblair has on mail | 19:49 | |
| clarkb | if we want to do a weekend before oneiric EOLs we will have to do it this weekend. We can do it the one after if we are willing to risk a couple days of EOL | 19:50 |
| zaro | this weekend is good for me. | 19:50 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yes, i think something in the friday-night to sunday-morning range | 19:50 |
| jeblair | clarkb: and this weekend works for me too | 19:50 |
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| mordred | same here | 19:50 |
| clarkb | how about 9am PST saturday? | 19:50 |
| mordred | great | 19:50 |
| jeblair | wfm | 19:50 |
| zaro | +1 | 19:51 |
| clarkb | ok, I will send a notification this afternoon after lunch | 19:51 |
| jeblair | #action clarkb send email announcing lists.o.o move at 9am pst saturday | 19:51 |
| jeblair | #topic testr | 19:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "testr (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:51 | |
| Daviey | mordred: hey | 19:51 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: testr thoughts? | 19:51 |
| mordred | yes. I agree | 19:51 |
| clarkb | ya, nova, quantum and some of the clients are done | 19:51 |
| mordred | we should push hard on testr early in the cycle | 19:52 |
| clarkb | mordred: do we need to be more coordinated and push testr on everyone else before milestone 1? | 19:52 |
| mordred | but - it's a big task and slightly out of scope for us | 19:52 |
| mordred | I think we should just get markmc and sdague to yell at people | 19:52 |
| mordred | (honestly, there's no way that we have the manpower to do it by ourselves) | 19:53 |
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| mordred | so perhaps bugging ttx to start a chat with folks in the meeting about best ways to get them migrated? | 19:53 |
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| mordred | I can tell everyone is excited by this topic | 19:55 |
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| hub_cap | woooo | 19:56 |
| sdague | me yelling doesn't help all that much :) | 19:56 |
| jeblair | #topic eavesdrop.o.o | 19:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "eavesdrop.o.o (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:56 | |
| jeblair | i think eavesdrop needs migration too. | 19:57 |
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| mordred | yah | 19:57 |
| clarkb | that works for me. | 19:57 |
| clarkb | but I think we should pay attention to it and be proactive | 19:57 |
| clarkb | #action clarkb to ping markmc and sdague about move to testr | 19:57 |
| clarkb | I will see what they think and do braindumps as necessary | 19:57 |
| jeblair | clarkb: shall we do it at the same time as lists? | 19:57 |
| clarkb | Do we want an open discussion? I can talk about logstash a little bit too | 19:57 |
| clarkb | jeblair: might as well | 19:57 |
| jeblair | #topic open discussion | 19:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:57 | |
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| ttx | mordred: ack, how about I plug you in during meeting so that you pass the bucket ? | 19:57 |
| ttx | maybe someone else will volunteer to do the nagging | 19:57 |
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| mordred | ttx: great | 19:57 |
| clarkb | FYI I think logstash.o.o's data is now consistent. After much hammering | 19:58 |
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| clarkb | index size per day has grown to about 5GB | 19:58 |
| jeblair | clarkb: so we're past the burn-and-rebuild stage? | 19:58 |
| clarkb | jeblair: I think so | 19:58 |
| jeblair | neato! | 19:58 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:58 |
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| clarkb | there is a bug in kibana where the timestamps don't show their milliseconds correctly... is fixed in master. I may pull that it. Otherwise I think the next step is getting other logs into logstash | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | cool. i think that's time for us. | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | thanks all, and we'll work out the rest of the details about test platforms next week | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 30 20:00:26 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-04-30-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-04-30-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-04-30-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
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| * mikal waits in the doorway | 20:00 | |
| * devananda lurks in the hallway | 20:01 | |
| ttx | o/ | 20:01 |
| notmyname | o/ | 20:01 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 20:01 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | markmc, dolphm, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, shardy, gabrielhurley, markmcclain: still around ? | 20:01 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 20:01 |
| markwash | o/ | 20:01 |
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| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | annegentle ? | 20:01 |
| markmc | yep | 20:01 |
| ttx | vishy: ? | 20:01 |
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| jlk | \o | 20:02 |
| jd__ | o/ | 20:02 |
| dolphm | o/ | 20:02 |
| russellb | hi | 20:02 |
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| hub_cap | o/ for reddwarf topic | 20:02 |
| ttx | we have quorum. | 20:02 |
| annegentle | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 30 20:02:41 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Agenda @ https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
| ttx | Please all welcome shardy who will be Heat PTL for Havana | 20:03 |
| markmc | welcome shardy :) | 20:03 |
| mikal | Heya! | 20:03 |
| jgriffith | hey shardy | 20:03 |
| gabrielhurley | welcome and congrats! | 20:03 |
| shardy | thanks all :) | 20:03 |
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| ttx | #topic RedDwarf Application for Incubation - introduction discussion | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RedDwarf Application for Incubation - introduction discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | RedDwarf folks filed for formal incubation at: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReddwarfAppliesForIncubation | 20:04 |
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| ttx | We'd like to kick off the discussion at this meeting and ideally make a decision by next week meeting | 20:04 |
| markmcclain | hi | 20:04 |
| ttx | So the idea for today is to raise the concerns we have and the questions we'd like answered before next week | 20:04 |
| hub_cap | hello and thx for the consideration | 20:04 |
| ttx | hub_cap: care to summarize the project so far and why you think it's ready for incubation ? | 20:04 |
| hub_cap | sure thang | 20:04 |
| hub_cap | the project contains the basics for a relational database as a service, with 2 implementations being tested and dev'd on, percona and oracle mysql | 20:05 |
| hub_cap | at present the api does not preclude us from tackling postgres, or nosql solutions | 20:05 |
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| hub_cap | its got instance creation (which will eventually be instrumented by Heat), and user / schema creation | 20:05 |
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| hub_cap | as well as resizes, root password enabling | 20:06 |
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| hub_cap | quotas, limits, standard OpenStack stuffs | 20:06 |
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| hub_cap | all the features can be found at | 20:06 |
| hub_cap | #link https://github.com/stackforge/database-api/blob/master/openstack-database-api/src/markdown/database-api-v1.md | 20:06 |
| hub_cap | so why do we feel we are ready? | 20:06 |
| hub_cap | a few things | 20:06 |
| hub_cap | weve been following, and interested in being incubated for a while now | 20:07 |
| hub_cap | we have support from > 1 company, and we are getting more support from vendors who are interested in getting into openstack from a db perspective | 20:07 |
| hub_cap | weve been following all the guidelines, using stackforge, gating, running ci tests as gates as well as pep / unit | 20:08 |
| hub_cap | keeping inline w/ blueprints / bugs, and the release schedule OpenStack follows | 20:08 |
| hub_cap | #link https://launchpad.net/reddwarf | 20:08 |
| hub_cap | so we feel like we are at critical mass, effectively | 20:08 |
| hub_cap | and would like the help and support from OpenStack community | 20:08 |
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| hub_cap | ot make this a world class Database as a Service project | 20:09 |
| * hub_cap gets off soapbox | 20:09 | |
| ttx | OK, questions time | 20:09 |
| ttx | The most obvious one is the need to rename the code name of the project into something more... hmm less... pre-existing | 20:09 |
| ttx | but I'm pretty sure there are other questions | 20:10 |
| russellb | yeah, here's one | 20:10 |
| hub_cap | less preexisting than a 'cool star' ;) | 20:10 |
| russellb | You've mentioned that RD has been deployed in production already. How will this affect openness to significant changes? I suspect that entering incubation will greatly increase visbility of the project, and people interested in providing input. Is that something you have concerns about? | 20:10 |
| markwash | #link http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094535/ | 20:10 |
| hub_cap | aww markwash :P | 20:10 |
| hub_cap | russellb: at rax we are well aware of what this will do to the product, from a openness perspective | 20:10 |
| jcooley | ditto for HP. | 20:10 |
| hub_cap | we are embracing the change as a good thing, and i am devoted 100% to the public | 20:11 |
| hub_cap | my title @ rax is community dev lead, i focus on the product in the open. period. | 20:11 |
| shardy | hub_cap: A lot of instance-specific stuff seems to have been defined in the API, do you expect that to remain, e.g after you abstract the instance behind a heat template? | 20:11 |
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| shardy | Seems like implementation has bled through rather than being a pure DB API abstraction | 20:11 |
| markmc | on the name, fwiw - I don't see it "creating confusion in the market place" - but IANAL, and we should get real advice | 20:11 |
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| mordred | I actually agree with markmc | 20:12 |
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| hub_cap | shardy: i think thats a good question. we havent begun to look @ how heat will help us, and if it changes our api, then thats something we have to roll with | 20:12 |
| russellb | yeah, i was surprised to see security group management in your API, for example. seems like a duplicate of something that lives in other apis | 20:12 |
| annegentle | hub_cap: have you reached out to mirantis about Savanna (or have they come to you?) | 20:12 |
| hub_cap | there is some mysql specifics, and id love to take those out | 20:12 |
| hub_cap | annegentle: not at present | 20:12 |
| hub_cap | russellb: the security groups is a pass thru, so people dont have to go to nova for some of the functionality | 20:12 |
| shardy | russellb: agree | 20:13 |
| vipul | the security groups impl is there to abstract away the VM from the end user, but also allow them to manage some things | 20:13 |
| russellb | one of the incubation questions is "how likely is the architecture to change drastically?" or something to that effect ... this question about heat seems to be high risk in this area | 20:13 |
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| ttx | mordred/markmc: well, we can certainly push it to the Foundation and see how that rolls, before manding a name change. | 20:13 |
| hub_cap | russellb: its possible that some of the backend will change but we will strive to make this as painles as possible to deployers and users | 20:13 |
| russellb | hub_cap: yeah but i don't agree that passthrough is a solution, only a temporary thing if needed | 20:13 |
| markmc | agree on the issue of future major architecture changes re heat | 20:13 |
| hub_cap | russellb: thats fine wrt secgroups | 20:14 |
| gabrielhurley | Personally I see huge value in Red Dwarf, and everything that was discussed in the email thread on RD's incubation was spot on. But this vote comes down to "are we now openly admitting that OpenStack will accept IaaS++ projects into Integrated?" We're already moving that way, but if we go there for real it's opening the doors for many others. This isn't really a question to anyone; it's merely what I'm grappling with in | 20:14 |
| mordred | I'm not sure I agree wrt heat | 20:14 |
| russellb | i think we should stick to the heat topic, that's a much bigger issue | 20:14 |
| markmc | it'd be nice to at least understand how re-architecting to use heat will change things | 20:14 |
| markmc | mordred, agree that it should use heat? or agree we should know in advance how it will change things? | 20:14 |
| hub_cap | so i see heat as a way, under the covers to help us create instances, and clusters | 20:14 |
| grapex | russelb: We've already had to change a lot of architecture in the past (back when we were a fork of Nova well over a year ago and changed to be a stand-alone project making REST calls), and we managed to do it while maintaining our API. | 20:14 |
| mordred | I think that heat is a new wrinkle for many of the projects that they'll need to deal with and part of the overall project evolving | 20:14 |
| ttx | russellb: yes | 20:14 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd like to see the Heat work as a condition of successful graduation | 20:15 |
| shardy | I think exposing details of how the DB is deployed via the API is wrong, e.g in our RDS nested stack resource implementation all of that is hidden | 20:15 |
| jd__ | gabrielhurley: I think having Swift is already answering the question of "are we going IasS+" :-) | 20:15 |
| shardy | users shouldn't care about those details IMO | 20:15 |
| russellb | shardy: agreed | 20:15 |
| ttx | The only potential barrier to incubation that I can see would be "shouldn't it be rearchitected to use Heat prior to be accepted for incubation" | 20:15 |
| mordred | I agree with jd__ | 20:15 |
| hub_cap | shardy: right. thast why they will create a "instance" and we will use heat to plug it all in | 20:15 |
| dolphm | hub_cap: regarding mysql specifics, has there at least been a proof of concept to manage nosql? i don't want to see us hit an openstack release with a blocker for something we're claiming future support for | 20:16 |
| hub_cap | i dont see that significantly altering our api | 20:16 |
| hub_cap | dolphm: im working on a redis POC now | 20:16 |
| ttx | personally, I think part of the incubation process is to create the incentive to align with other integrated projects | 20:16 |
| shardy | hub_cap: I think the whole usage of the word "instance" wrt providing a database service needs to be reconsidered | 20:16 |
| russellb | ttx: that's interesting perspective | 20:16 |
| russellb | calling it "instance" if != "instance" in nova is very confusing | 20:16 |
| gabrielhurley | one wrinkle: if red warf uses Heat under the hood (which we all want) then we've moved Heat into a dependency tree whereas it was independently optionaly before... | 20:16 |
| shardy | imho of course ;) | 20:16 |
| hub_cap | shardy: thats fine, we went back and forth for a LONG time to try to come up w/ something that made sense to us | 20:16 |
| ttx | so that question could be used against RD for graduation, not for incubatuion ? | 20:17 |
| hub_cap | ttx: i like that :) | 20:17 |
| markmc | gabrielhurley, reddwarf will be optional :) | 20:17 |
| russellb | i still think it's worth considering the heat issue now vs later | 20:17 |
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| gabrielhurley | markmc: yeah, that's about the only solution I can see | 20:17 |
| annegentle | I'm trying to decide if it's preservationist or conservationist to require use of Heat API for integration? Does it preserve resources or actually require more? | 20:17 |
| russellb | because what if someone looks into this and decides it's easier to just start over to do a heat based approach? | 20:17 |
| annegentle | "it" means the heat req. | 20:17 |
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| hub_cap | i dont think it alters the api annegentle. things that would alter the api woudl be deciding to call it something diff than instances moreso... | 20:18 |
| annegentle | russellb: words are difficult to preserve :) | 20:18 |
| shardy | annegentle: It's just about avoiding huge duplication of effort IMO | 20:18 |
| hub_cap | we are going to use heat behind the scenes | 20:18 |
| jd__ | ttx: makes sense to me | 20:18 |
| markmc | annegentle, architectural sanity; avoiding having two things in the architecture that overlap | 20:18 |
| demorris | to me, Heat integration would be contained within the implementation and does not mean that it would bleed through and cause the API to change... | 20:18 |
| markmc | hub_cap, great :) | 20:18 |
| markwash | demorris: +1 | 20:18 |
| gabrielhurley | demorris: that's what I'd expect too | 20:19 |
| russellb | this is more about blessing an API, though ... | 20:19 |
| annegentle | hub_cap: demorris: okay. | 20:19 |
| russellb | err, more than blessing an API | 20:19 |
| markmc | the "using heat won't change the API" seems a bit hand-wavey to me, though | 20:19 |
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| jcooley | dmorris: also +1, the only concern may be around terminology. but has Heat settled on terminology yet or is that still in flux? | 20:19 |
| markwash | I want to imagine that Heat would be on the implementation rather than api side of RD | 20:19 |
| shardy | demorris: that would be true if the API didn't already expose details of the implementation | 20:19 |
| markmc | i.e. is that based on looking at how you'd use heat, or a vague understanding of what heat is? | 20:19 |
| hub_cap | sure, but does the history of incubated projects mean that they all have solid, complete apis, before becoming incubated? | 20:19 |
| annegentle | yeah my okay was more like oh-kayyy. | 20:19 |
| annegentle | markmc: ^^ yeah | 20:19 |
| hub_cap | i think the process to becoming integrated will be to solidify the api around openstack | 20:20 |
| hub_cap | yall didnt have input before we were incubated cuz we wre just loosely affiliated | 20:20 |
| hub_cap | now we are asking for input | 20:20 |
| jcooley | markmc: the hand-wavvy part is that we may need additional parameters, but the operations are the same... right? CRUD model. | 20:20 |
| demorris | shardy, am curious in what contexts we are showing impl details in the API | 20:20 |
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| russellb | question is, is RD as it is today actually where you would start for something like this based on heat, or would you start over? | 20:20 |
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| hub_cap | and during this process we will be _fixing_ this stuff :) | 20:20 |
| russellb | unless someone has seriously looked into this, i don't think anyone can answer that | 20:20 |
| hub_cap | russellb: i see no need to start over | 20:20 |
| russellb | do you know that? | 20:20 |
| hub_cap | i cant predict the future ;) | 20:21 |
| markmc | well, would e.g. the taskmanager service be required if you were using heat ? | 20:21 |
| hub_cap | nor have i looked into it deeply | 20:21 |
| russellb | but someone can spend some in depth time considering what this would look like | 20:21 |
| shardy | demorris: security groups and rules, instance flavors, instance-orientated terminology | 20:21 |
| markmc | or would the api talk directly to heat and hand off | 20:21 |
| mordred | well, I think since rax and hp have this in front of customers, I doubt they'll start completely from scratch | 20:21 |
| hub_cap | markmc: task mgr also takes care of long running db tasks | 20:21 |
| jcooley | markmc: yes, it would. | 20:21 |
| hub_cap | backups, restores, replication etc... | 20:21 |
| markmc | ah, ok | 20:21 |
| jd__ | changing or building a new API doesn't sound like something bad as long as it's well handled, which is a criteria to judge for accepting a project to core, not really the API itself, IMHO | 20:22 |
| annegentle | I think RD has flexed along the way and proven flexible, but my concern is about centralized resource sharing (docs, qa, etc.) It's my usual line of questioning. | 20:22 |
| russellb | btw, i'm disappointed that we have to consider the fact that companies put this into production before integrating with the community in our decision process | 20:22 |
| jcooley | markmc: we still want to factor the front end API tier from the backend. | 20:22 |
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| markmc | but taskmanager might not be required for instance management tasks? | 20:22 |
| demorris | shardy: I guess I was thinking you were meaning we were exposing DB specific implementation, which I think is what matters in this case | 20:22 |
| hub_cap | markmc: my guess is "probably not?" wiht a ? | 20:22 |
| hub_cap | we can remove those code paths :D | 20:22 |
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| ttx | russellb: do we ? | 20:22 |
| russellb | ttx: well it has been brought up multiple times in this conversation | 20:23 |
| mordred | russellb: I am as well, but I see this as a path to getting some of that back under control personally | 20:23 |
| shardy | one interesting chicken/egg thing is we'd like to use RD instead of our nested-stack RDS implementation | 20:23 |
| mordred | ttx: I think it is a salient data point | 20:23 |
| jcooley | markmc: no, anything that could cause latency on the front-end would want to be moved to the taskmanager/backend. | 20:23 |
| russellb | mordred: yeah, guess so ... but I also want to make it clear that this was the wrong order of operations. | 20:23 |
| mordred | russellb: ++ | 20:23 |
| markmc | shardy, is that really a problem ? seems like it would work fine | 20:23 |
| shardy | markmc: probably not, was just thinking of the bi-directional dependencies | 20:24 |
| mordred | shardy: I had the same question - but I haven't wrapped my head around it fully yet - but couldn't heat call rd which then calls heat ? | 20:24 |
| gabrielhurley | I don't see any reason why it couldn't | 20:24 |
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| russellb | yeah, would really like someone to do some in depth investigation on how you'd design something like this to work with heat, we're doing a lot of guessing on it | 20:24 |
| ttx | maybe you can work on some clear Heat integration plan that you would follow if you were to be incubated, so that we can judge how realistic it sounds | 20:24 |
| shardy | mordred: Yep, that would work, quite similar to our existing nested stack mechanism but defined via RD | 20:24 |
| hub_cap | russellb: ++ | 20:24 |
| russellb | ttx: ++ | 20:24 |
| markmc | heh, mordred of OpenStack on Openstack claiming *this* is hard to get his head around :) | 20:24 |
| hub_cap | we can do that ttx | 20:25 |
| mordred | markmc: hehe | 20:25 |
| gabrielhurley | lol | 20:25 |
| ttx | that would be great, seems to be one of the most pressing concerns at this point | 20:25 |
| ttx | anything else RD needs to work on ? | 20:25 |
| hub_cap | agreed | 20:25 |
| gabrielhurley | did we get any answers around docs/ci/etc? | 20:25 |
| markmc | thanks hub_cap and co | 20:25 |
| hub_cap | welcome | 20:25 |
| gabrielhurley | (did I just miss that?) | 20:25 |
| markmc | for the record, you guys seem to have a tonne right | 20:25 |
| demorris | apologies, but I need some help here. I am still struggling with why a Heat plan, or use of Heat needs to be a pre-condition for incubation or graduation.. | 20:26 |
| hub_cap | gabrielhurley: i dont think we have talked bout it | 20:26 |
| markmc | also for the record, I did a quick license check - all code is apache licensed | 20:26 |
| dolphm | given that rax / hp have products based on this, how flexible is the api at this point? | 20:26 |
| ttx | #info RD should investigate and document transition to use Heat if it were to be accepted in incubation | 20:26 |
| markmc | and deps check - nothing new, except factory_boy which looks fine | 20:26 |
| russellb | yeah, love the usage of openstack processes | 20:26 |
| gabrielhurley | hub_cap: gothca. annegentle asked about it but it fell through the cracks. | 20:26 |
| russellb | also happy with the scope/fit question | 20:26 |
| annegentle | hub_cap: so you linked to a markdown API doc but I thought you were working on API docs that are more like the rest of OpenStack API docs? | 20:26 |
| mordred | they're doing a good job on CI on stackforge, and are currently running third-party integration tests triggered by our gerrit | 20:26 |
| markmc | hub_cap, do you intend to keep the rsdns client in tree? | 20:26 |
| demorris | to me, it is a matter of implementation on how we orchestrate the creation of database resources, clusters, etc... | 20:26 |
| annegentle | I've seen their stackforge work also and it's good. | 20:27 |
| russellb | demorris: yes but the implementation *is* an important question that we do consider as criteria. | 20:27 |
| hub_cap | dolphm: i say its flexible. worst case we can version and go | 20:27 |
| russellb | demorris: it's not something to be dismissed as trivial and unimportant. | 20:27 |
| mordred | we've got hooks for them in devstack/devstack-gate and know how to hook them in if they become incubated | 20:27 |
| hub_cap | annegentle: we are, mike from rax has some that hes almost done with | 20:27 |
| demorris | russellb: agree, not trying to dismiss it | 20:27 |
| vipul | hub_cap, dolphm: yep, we can always version if drastic changes are needed | 20:27 |
| annegentle | hub_cap: one suggestion is to put a link to your github codebase on the wiki application page | 20:27 |
| ttx | demorris: we want to avoid a project incubated realizing it needs to be completely rewritten to be integrated with other projects | 20:27 |
| hub_cap | i pushed that out to give people an idea of whats going on | 20:27 |
| demorris | struggling to keep up with all the conversations | 20:27 |
| hub_cap | annegentle: good call ill do that now | 20:27 |
| ttx | demorris: so investigating that in advnace sounds snae | 20:27 |
| hub_cap | demorris: lol | 20:27 |
| dolphm | hub_cap: so, maintain backwards compatibility on further changes to v1? | 20:27 |
| ttx | *sane | 20:27 |
| jcooley | russellb: its flexible enough that rax uses straight mysql and hp uses percona. | 20:27 |
| russellb | jcooley: *nod* | 20:28 |
| markmc | hub_cap, do you intend to keep the rsdns client in tree? | 20:28 |
| hub_cap | dolphm: ya i think so | 20:28 |
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| demorris | ttx: agree, I think some things got lost in translation for me | 20:28 |
| annegentle | hub_cap: your bug list seems fairly triaged, are you using test suites now? | 20:28 |
| hub_cap | markmc: not if we can use a client that moniker has built for us :D | 20:28 |
| dolphm | hub_cap: i'm asking because i'm noticing what i'm hoping are bugs on the spec doc, rather than impl :) | 20:28 |
| markmc | hub_cap, well, it seems odd for a project to carry something like that IMHO - would be good to move it out | 20:29 |
| markwash | I'd love to understand why we are pushing Heat for RD as well. . is it that RD is currently duplicating a lot of Heat functionality? | 20:29 |
| gabrielhurley | markwash: yes | 20:29 |
| markmc | hub_cap, what in-guest distros do you currently support/use ? | 20:29 |
| hub_cap | annegentle: im not sure what u mean wrt test suites | 20:29 |
| annegentle | hub_cap: how do you test now? | 20:29 |
| shardy | markwash: yes, orchestration basically ;) | 20:29 |
| hub_cap | ahh, so we have unit and integration tests, the integration is done via jenkins that hp has put out | 20:29 |
| markmc | markwash, yes, dupication of instance management and the like - RD would use Heat as an implementation detail | 20:30 |
| markwash | so, is there a concern that this duplication is divisive? | 20:30 |
| * hub_cap pulls the next question off the stack | 20:30 | |
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| mordred | hub_cap: you guys still have proboscis in the tree? or are you totally on to testr yet? | 20:30 |
| russellb | hub_cap: can always come back and read scrollback to catch all the points raised | 20:30 |
| * hub_cap will have to russellb ;) | 20:30 | |
| grapex | mordred: The plan is to make proboscis run on testr so we can migrate. | 20:30 |
| * markwash will definitely look more into the Heat question for himself, so we can move on | 20:30 | |
| mordred | grapex: that hurts my head | 20:31 |
| hub_cap | dolphm: we dont have any bugs in the spec doc persay at present | 20:31 |
| grapex | mordred: Rather than drop the suite complete. However once we make it run testr, it should run everything fairly trivially the way other projects do and fit into the existing CI systems. | 20:31 |
| mordred | grapex: great | 20:31 |
| hub_cap | markmc: we support deb based currently, ubuntu/debian | 20:31 |
| ttx | hub_cap: what's the timeframe for that Heat adoption analysis ? trying to see if it's worth it keeping the incubation decision on the agenda for next week | 20:31 |
| markmc | hub_cap, any plans for supporting other distros? any problems anticipated? | 20:31 |
| hub_cap | i dont think its out of the question to say 1 wk | 20:31 |
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| ttx | hub_cap: post to openstack-dev when done | 20:32 |
| hub_cap | markmc: woudl love to support rpm based, no problems there | 20:32 |
| hub_cap | ttx: roger | 20:32 |
| hub_cap | ok i _think_ i got everyones Qs... if u still have one fire or ping me | 20:32 |
| markmc | interestingly, we didn't discuss the scope of the project | 20:32 |
| russellb | s/u/you/ | 20:32 |
| * markmc thinks the scope is fine FWIW | 20:33 | |
| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:33 |
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| ttx | Fine discussing it if that's an issue for anyone | 20:33 |
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| mordred | ++ | 20:33 |
| ttx | otherwise we'll just go to the next topic | 20:33 |
| mikal | Works for me | 20:33 |
| markwash | I'm still a tiny bit concerned | 20:33 |
| hub_cap | thx for your consideration peoples | 20:33 |
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| ttx | markwash: I don't like to see you concerned. | 20:34 |
| demorris | hub_cap: +1 | 20:34 |
| hub_cap | markwash: we can chat about it if you'd like offline? or online if need be :D | 20:34 |
| markwash | because I would see the inclusiveness of its scope a prereq, but so far it seems like mostly promises and plans | 20:34 |
| markwash | all of which seem lovely | 20:34 |
| hub_cap | heh | 20:34 |
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| gabrielhurley | markwash: what, you don't trust them? ;-) | 20:34 |
| markwash | well, I don't trust anybody forward looking, so :-) | 20:34 |
| hub_cap | ya markwash? | 20:34 |
| hub_cap | :P | 20:34 |
| jgriffith | haha... we have to start somewhere | 20:34 |
| ttx | markwash: I definitely like the idea to be more database-agnostic... but so far it's just a plan, true | 20:34 |
| markwash | but to me, honestly, if it fits the AWS bill of what DBaaS means, its probably right for our system | 20:35 |
| jd__ | it's also something that can be proved during incubation | 20:35 |
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| ttx | Maybe they could also prepare a rationale as to why their architecture will also support other-SQL and NoSQL ? | 20:35 |
| mordred | agree on more agnostic. otoh, adding more backends is a "if someone cares" thing | 20:35 |
| mordred | same as virt drivers | 20:36 |
| ttx | without forcing us to individually look into the code and figure it out | 20:36 |
| gabrielhurley | yeah, wouldn't want to mandate more backends only to have them be abandoned after the POC | 20:36 |
| mordred | we only added hyperv because someone showed up who wanted it | 20:36 |
| russellb | speaking of AWS, i noticed that they have nosql as a separate service instead of all in one | 20:36 |
| demorris | ttx: we have blueprints for the API that discuss how the API will be DB agnostic | 20:36 |
| dolphm | ttx: that's why i'd like to see a proof of concept of a nosql impl, rather than more wording :) | 20:36 |
| markwash | russellb: oh interesting | 20:36 |
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| russellb | we should consider that before we just assume it would be a part of this | 20:36 |
| dolphm | russellb: interesting, do you know why? | 20:36 |
| mikal | I like the idea of having fewer services | 20:36 |
| russellb | no, was hoping someone else did :) | 20:36 |
| ttx | dolphm: that sounds a bit harsh to mandate for the incubation decision. maybe something we could require for graduation ? | 20:36 |
| dolphm | hub_cap: ? | 20:36 |
| russellb | but the APIs are quite different | 20:36 |
| markwash | I think I'd settle for some convincing proof that the api is compatible with other likely backends (Cassandra, say) | 20:36 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:37 |
| russellb | the nosql aws service seems to have a lot more ... nosql-isms | 20:37 |
| hub_cap | that'd be my guess russellb, different apis... | 20:37 |
| dolphm | ttx: agree | 20:37 |
| mordred | I don't personally think that reddwarf needs to support nosql | 20:37 |
| annegentle | I think scope is an important part of this whole process (incubation, graduation, core etc) | 20:37 |
| * markmc is fine with the idea that nosql could be a separate service | 20:37 | |
| russellb | yeah, but are different apis what we think is ideal? | 20:37 |
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| russellb | or not? | 20:37 |
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| markmc | if needs be | 20:37 |
| mordred | because I don't think that nosql and sql things really share much in the way of operational semantics | 20:37 |
| ttx | At this point I want them to explain why it should be agnostic. Then we can put them against their words in the following months to prove it | 20:37 |
| mordred | same as how swift and cinder are different | 20:37 |
| markwash | mordred: I'd be fine with that, so long as other agree that there might be room for a simliar NoSQL DBaaS project in OpenStack | 20:37 |
| mordred | because they are DIFFERENT | 20:37 |
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| mordred | markwash: I'd be totally open to that | 20:38 |
| hub_cap | we might find that it doesnt fit, then we focus more on relational :) | 20:38 |
| markmc | markwash, yes, there would be room | 20:38 |
| russellb | same here, i think, based on what i've read so far | 20:38 |
| markwash | well, cool | 20:38 |
| markwash | that might seem more sane to me anyway | 20:38 |
| demorris | markwash: yes the topic around a distributed key-value store service similar to DynamoDB should be had | 20:38 |
| ttx | it shoudl AT LEAST be SQL-db-agnostic | 20:38 |
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| russellb | ttx: +1 :) | 20:38 |
| hub_cap | ttx: def. weve strived for that so far.. maybe i do a postgres impl instead of redis/cassandra? | 20:39 |
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| mordred | btw - I would like to congratulate the reddwarf team for not following the aws footsteps in forking mysql to do their work | 20:39 |
| russellb | yes, i think postgres may be a better next step | 20:39 |
| hub_cap | to prove its db agnosting | 20:39 |
| markmcclain | ttx:+1 | 20:39 |
| mordred | or drizzle :) | 20:39 |
| * mordred shuts up | 20:39 | |
| russellb | sqlite! | 20:39 |
| russellb | wait | 20:39 |
| russellb | :-p | 20:39 |
| cp16net | lol | 20:39 |
| hub_cap | ok so for next week, ill do the following, 1) have a postgres POC, 2) have diagrams / wiki for heat design in reddwarf | 20:39 |
| hub_cap | are there other outstanding things i should bring ot the table? | 20:40 |
| markwash | #action markwash research the differences between AWS DBaaS offerings for sql-like and nosql-like | 20:40 |
| markwash | just for my own notes | 20:40 |
| ttx | Personally I'd be fine with you explaining why the code supports postgres rather than a POC, but a POC may actually be faster ;) | 20:40 |
| * jd__ votes postgres | 20:40 | |
| hub_cap | i wonder markwash, do they not expose a "backend" to the serivce, like we would do w/ mongo or cassandra | 20:41 |
| demorris | markwash: would love to share my thoughts with you on this topic if you are up for it | 20:41 |
| hub_cap | so their api has to have doc retrieval / storage etc | 20:41 |
| ttx | OK, unless there are still people concerned, I'd like to switch to next topic | 20:41 |
| demorris | have studied this area in depth | 20:41 |
| markwash | demorris: cool | 20:41 |
| markwash | ttx: go for it | 20:41 |
| hub_cap | thank you all again | 20:41 |
| ttx | #topic Discussion: What is our goal with OpenStack WRT API behavior and implementation | 20:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion: What is our goal with OpenStack WRT API behavior and implementation (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:41 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: Care to introduce this one ? | 20:41 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: sure | 20:41 |
| jgriffith | So the issue is a question of API and expected behaviors | 20:42 |
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| jgriffith | My take has been that the end user should not know/care what the backend storage is for the most part | 20:42 |
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| jgriffith | That means, when I say "cinder create-snapshot" I get a snapshot | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | for example | 20:42 |
| jcooley | markwash: AWS has developed the offerings with different teams and different, optimized hardware environments... :) | 20:43 |
| ttx | I read the thread... I think our goal is not to let storage backend vendors differentiate with unique features. Our goal is to provide a set of basic API calls that reflects our view of "block storage as a service"... and have drivers for the backends which support that set | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | Well... | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | My proposal is that the base/refernce implementation is just that | 20:43 |
| mikal | Also, we need to remember that some deployments might have more than one vendor in them, and those need to feel consistent. | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | If you can't meet that bar you are out | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | If you want to exceed functionality that's fine | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | mikal: +1000000 | 20:44 |
| markwash | jgriffith: does the base/reference impl just clone on snapshot? | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | mikal: So that's my entire argument | 20:44 |
| markmcclain | remember this also not unique to storage.. networking has this issue too with API compliance | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | markwash: it can do whatever you want to implement | 20:44 |
| ttx | jgriffith: I'm actually not sure of the value to openstack of allowing differentioation in extensions, at least for the block storage project... | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | markwash: I don't care what the implementation looks like | 20:44 |
| jd__ | jgriffith: how are you sure the reference implementation can cover all cases that another vendor might offer? | 20:44 |
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| mikal | We see a similar problem with multiple hypervisors in nova too | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | markwash: all I care about is the end result | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | jd__: it can't | 20:44 |
| ttx | jgriffith: but I can be convinced otherwise I guess | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | ttx: well... yes | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | ttx: so there are mechanism via things like volume-types | 20:45 |
| dolphm | keystone has this concern as well, considering how likely it is for someone to write their own identity driver / auth plugin / etc | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | ttx: that covers this nicely | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | IMO | 20:45 |
| jd__ | jgriffith: that sounds like a problem to me somehow :) | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | jd__: which? | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | jd__: ie what sounds like a problem? | 20:45 |
| markwash | jgriffith: rather than defining an api with a base/ref impl, I'd rather define it in terms of an api with independent testing. . | 20:46 |
| jd__ | jgriffith: leveling down all drivers to your base implementation features? | 20:46 |
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| markwash | jgriffith: the significance being, I might be willing to cut corners for something that is "just" the base impl | 20:46 |
| jgriffith | jd__: markwash ok timeout | 20:46 |
| markwash | sorry | 20:46 |
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| jgriffith | you're going the opposite direction | 20:46 |
| * markwash pauses | 20:46 | |
| jd__ | :) | 20:46 |
| jgriffith | I'm stating jus the opposite! | 20:46 |
| gabrielhurley | I still say that the "core API" should not by definition include everything that the reference implementation supports. | 20:46 |
| jgriffith | There are vendors that can't do features that the base offeres | 20:46 |
| gabrielhurley | core API needs to look across implementations | 20:46 |
| jgriffith | offers | 20:46 |
| jgriffith | and they're suggesting they shouldn't have to | 20:47 |
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| jgriffith | I'm stating that's not an option | 20:47 |
| ttx | jgriffith: +1 | 20:47 |
| annegentle | what gabrielhurley said about core API is the way I see the current state of affairs on Compute | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: gabrielhurley I agree | 20:47 |
| ttx | that sounds like the bare minimum to me | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | gabrielhurley: in fact that's my entire proposal in a nut shell really | 20:47 |
| gabrielhurley | yep | 20:47 |
| jd__ | jgriffith: ok, you mean raising NotImplemented isn't an option? so it's better to not have this driver basically? | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | jd__: exactly | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | jd__: LVM isn't exactly a super high bar to begin with | 20:48 |
| mikal | But only for the "core api" right? Drivers can implement functionality over and above that? | 20:48 |
| gabrielhurley | my only addendum to that is that any capability that's not core needs to be "discoverable". | 20:48 |
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| markwash | high bar or not, its a bottom-up description | 20:48 |
| jgriffith | mikal: over and above is fine | 20:48 |
| gabrielhurley | e.g. you can query /extensions and find out what's supported beyond the "core" | 20:48 |
| mikal | How do I know what's core or not? | 20:48 |
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| jgriffith | mikal: as long as it doesn't change the API | 20:48 |
| mordred | I think that the core API needs to be suported by everything | 20:48 |
| jgriffith | mikal: I'll publish it | 20:48 |
| jd__ | jgriffith: fair enough, I think the real question is where the bar is, this can be different for each case | 20:48 |
| jgriffith | mikal: or just look at the API today | 20:48 |
| mordred | or else it's a TERRIBLE user exprience | 20:48 |
| mikal | Agreed | 20:48 |
| gabrielhurley | mordred: you say that as if this isn't already the case... | 20:49 |
| ttx | mordred: yes, what jgriffith proposes sounds like the bare minimum to me | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | mordred: so that's what I wanted mind share on | 20:49 |
| mikal | I think we implicitly do this in nova already to be honest | 20:49 |
| markmcclain | mordred: agreed | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | mikal: not ture | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | true | 20:49 |
| mikal | i.e. all drivers can launch a VM, not all can do console output | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | we're fixing it in nova | 20:49 |
| jgriffith | in the past IIRc there was a divergence | 20:49 |
| jd__ | that's an interesting question even for Ceilometer since we have a few drivers lacking behind the API and not offering all features for now | 20:49 |
| mordred | and I don't think we should artificially keep a feature oout of core just becaus a vendor might no be able to keep up | 20:49 |
| ttx | does anyone disagree with jgriffith that drivers should implement the core set of API features or else be rejected ? | 20:49 |
| markwash | jgriffith: is this about raising NotImplemented for a given function, or raising NotImplemented for a given function depending on the inputs? | 20:49 |
| mordred | if it's a thing that's a fundametal feature | 20:50 |
| mordred | ttx: yes | 20:50 |
| jd__ | ttx: we agree since we kind-of decided the same thing during the summit for Ceilometer | 20:50 |
| dolphm | ttx: yes | 20:50 |
| mordred | ttx: otherwise they are pointless drivers | 20:50 |
| jgriffith | markwash: it's about you MUST implement the API | 20:50 |
| jgriffith | I don't give a rats butt how you do it | 20:50 |
| dolphm | the identity api has to be able to raise 501 or 403 as an expected behavior, depending on driver / driver config | 20:50 |
| ttx | mordred: so you don't disagree with jgriffith | 20:50 |
| ttx | looks like veryone agrees | 20:50 |
| mordred | ttx: I find it highly unlikely that I disagree with anyone | 20:50 |
| jgriffith | mordred: haha!!! | 20:51 |
| markwash | a little lost actually | 20:51 |
| hub_cap | mordred: i disagree w/ that statement | 20:51 |
| ttx | except my keyboard which I really need to change | 20:51 |
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| jgriffith | markwash: I can discuss after if you like? | 20:51 |
| ttx | let me summarize | 20:51 |
| jgriffith | or anyone else for that matter | 20:51 |
| markwash | It sounds like you're definition of API is implicitly defined such that NotImplemented is an invalid result | 20:51 |
| ttx | #info block storage drivers should implement the core set of API features or else be rejected | 20:51 |
| jgriffith | ttx: bingo | 20:51 |
| markwash | but I could define a core API where it was acceptable, and that would completely undermine this discussion | 20:52 |
| jgriffith | markwash: ? | 20:52 |
| mordred | markwash: what would you accomplish by doing that? | 20:52 |
| ttx | markwash: is that a rhetorical question ? | 20:52 |
| mordred | and what would the user experience be? | 20:52 |
| markwash | ttx: yes, somewhat rhetorical | 20:53 |
| jgriffith | markwash: I wasn't suggesting a philosophical discussion, I'm just proposing that things like Horizon work | 20:53 |
| markwash | but I"m trying to get down to the specific case in question | 20:53 |
| gabrielhurley | markwash: invalid for something that is "core", which should be a smaller subset of "essential" functionality. e.g. core are things that you would not reasonably build a service without (yes, that's still subject to interpretation, but at some point it has to be). | 20:53 |
| jgriffith | and that and end user get's the expected results regardless of what backend is in use | 20:53 |
| markmc | so, here's a thought - our core API could expose what optional features are available | 20:53 |
| markmc | build the concept of capabilities into the core API | 20:53 |
| jgriffith | markwash: horrid idea | 20:53 |
| russellb | markmc: yeah i think gabrielhurley has been begging for that :) | 20:53 |
| gabrielhurley | markmc: I think I've been saying that for 2 years... ;-) | 20:53 |
| jgriffith | markwash: if you're suggesting the dynamic API reading? | 20:53 |
| markmc | rather than only having optional features as extensions | 20:53 |
| jgriffith | markwash: perhaps I'm misunderstanding.. sorry | 20:54 |
| markwash | I think I'm on you all's side here, just trying to understand and consider a specific case | 20:54 |
| ttx | markmc: that's orthogonal to the discussion of requiring core APi featyures to be implemented in drivers | 20:54 |
| gabrielhurley | the flipside is the possibility that *nothing* is "core" and *everything* is a capability that must be discoverable. but that makes for really messy clients and wonky UX's. | 20:54 |
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| markmc | ttx, no, it's not - if the core API supported optional feature, drivers would not have to implement optional core features | 20:54 |
| ttx | markmc: you're talking about extra API features discovery, right ? | 20:54 |
| * jgriffith thinks he's regretting bringing this up :) | 20:54 | |
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| ttx | markmc: oh, I see | 20:55 |
| jgriffith | So here's the thing, the cleanest way for what markmc is proposing (I think) | 20:55 |
| jgriffith | is via extensions... | 20:55 |
| markmc | jgriffith, well, would it be ridiculous for snapshots to be optional and for it to be discoverable via the API that a volume isn't snapshotable | 20:55 |
| ttx | markmc: I still think what jgriffith wants mindshare on is a good starting point | 20:55 |
| jgriffith | reason being there can be multiple backends that have different capabilities | 20:55 |
| jd__ | gabrielhurley: sounds beautiful *and* scary :) | 20:55 |
| markmc | jgriffith, notice I say the capability is discoverable *per volume* | 20:56 |
| dolphm | i think consistent API behavior across drivers is much more important than whether a feature is wholly available or not -- a single call should mean the same thing to two different drivers, if both implement it | 20:56 |
| markmc | jgriffith, that's not an extension | 20:56 |
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| jgriffith | markmc: indeed and that's what's scary | 20:56 |
| markwash | dolphm: +1 | 20:56 |
| jgriffith | markmc: that volume can be anywhere on any backend | 20:56 |
| markmc | jgriffith, why? | 20:56 |
| jgriffith | and the end user has to get all the capabilities to know what he/she can/can't do | 20:56 |
| markwash | dolphm: I think that's my angle as well, much better put when you said it | 20:56 |
| jgriffith | and not only that, most SP's don't want their customers knowing the details | 20:56 |
| gabrielhurley | dolphm, markwash: that's the world of "everything must be discoverable", 'cuz otherwise I can't build a UI for that. | 20:56 |
| markmc | jgriffith, I'd say e.g. gabrielhurley would be perfectly happy if he could query per-volume whether a snapshot button should be enabled | 20:57 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: agree | 20:57 |
| jgriffith | markmc: ok... well for the record | 20:57 |
| markwash | gabrielhurley: that sounds like a sensible requirement | 20:57 |
| jgriffith | I violently object to that idea | 20:57 |
| ttx | Running out of time... I think this discussion can safely move to the ML, as I'm not sure we need a cross-project TC call on this | 20:57 |
| markmc | jgriffith, wonderful :) the violence really helps :) | 20:57 |
| jgriffith | I think that completely kills the user experience | 20:57 |
| gabrielhurley | I'd rather have what jgriffith proposes, but honestly I'll take either. What I can't take it the current state of affairs which is neither. :-D | 20:57 |
| markwash | we need drinks for this :-) | 20:57 |
| jgriffith | markmc: I didn't mean that literally | 20:58 |
| gabrielhurley | markwash: I will happily debate this over drinks tomorrow ;-) | 20:58 |
| mordred | I would like for there to be a sane set of things that I don't have to query that I can count on to work | 20:58 |
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| gabrielhurley | mordred: +1 | 20:58 |
| mordred | for things that may or may not work, I'd like to know how to know if they do or don't | 20:58 |
| ttx | jgriffith: I think what you propose is sane. Mark's option is sane too... but in the end whoever does it gets to decide ? | 20:58 |
| markwash | mordred: +1, but if not possible somehow, what dolph said | 20:58 |
| mordred | but really, I want those things to be things I'm likely to not care about in the general case | 20:58 |
| jgriffith | ttx: markmc works for me | 20:59 |
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| gabrielhurley | ttx: I think that's why we *do* need a TC decision on this. lol. | 20:59 |
| ttx | last minute question... | 20:59 |
| jgriffith | I guess I'm not understanding the debate here | 20:59 |
| jgriffith | ttx: sorry.. go ahead | 20:59 |
| ttx | shardy: you had a question about whether adding AutoScaling to Heat was a formal extension of scope that the TC should give its opinion on | 20:59 |
| ttx | quick answer from TC members ? | 20:59 |
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| shardy | ttx: shall I just ping the ML since we're out of time? | 20:59 |
| markmc | think it's worth the TC discussing at least | 20:59 |
| gabrielhurley | +1 on adding it | 20:59 |
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| * markmc had always thought auto-scaling would be a separate service | 21:00 | |
| markmc | but maybe that's just because aws does it that way | 21:00 |
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| ttx | shardy: push to the ML and we'll discuss it next time | 21:00 |
| shardy | ttx: will do | 21:00 |
| mikal | Juju does it in the same service IIRC | 21:00 |
| mikal | Which makes sense to me | 21:00 |
| ttx | or consensus will just be reached on the ML, who knows | 21:00 |
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| markmc | the general idea of the TC discussing the widening of scope of projects seems sane, anyway | 21:00 |
| markwash | +1 | 21:01 |
| gabrielhurley | +1 | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 30 21:01:10 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-04-30-20.02.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-04-30-20.02.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-04-30-20.02.log.html | 21:01 |
| shardy | the question is whether adding a new AS specific API allowing AS to be consumed without defining a heat stack is a broadening of scope | 21:01 |
| shardy | anyway, will mail ML later ;) | 21:01 |
| * gabrielhurley goes to change things in launchpad so ttx will have to reload the page when he gets to Horizon... | 21:01 | |
| ttx | markmc, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, shardy, gabrielhurley, markmcclain: still around ? | 21:01 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 21:01 |
| russellb | sir yes sir | 21:01 |
| jd__ | o/ | 21:01 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:01 |
| shardy | yep | 21:01 |
| notmyname | here (for 30 minutes) | 21:01 |
| markmc | ahhrrr | 21:01 |
| * markwash here | 21:01 | |
| ttx | notmyname: should be good | 21:02 |
| mordred | shardy: what's AS? | 21:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 30 21:02:21 2013 UTC. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:02 |
| ttx | mordred: autoscaling | 21:02 |
| markmc | mordred, auto scaling | 21:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| mordred | gotcha | 21:02 |
| ttx | Back to our regular schedule, let's see if it all fits in one hour :) | 21:02 |
| mordred | hahahahahaha | 21:02 |
| shardy | mordred: AutoScaling | 21:03 |
| ttx | Among other things we'll look into the published Havana plans and see how complete they are so far | 21:03 |
| markmc | hahahahaha | 21:03 |
| ttx | #topic General stuff | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General stuff (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| ttx | (autoscaling) | 21:03 |
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| ttx | annegentle: You targeted today for the Grizzly doc release | 21:03 |
| ttx | annegentle: How are you doing so far ? Need help for anything urgent ? | 21:03 |
| annegentle | ttx: yep. Should push through after/during this meeting. WOO. | 21:03 |
| ttx | WOO | 21:04 |
| annegentle | ttx: infra has been super responsive | 21:04 |
| ttx | annegentle: so it's not just for me | 21:04 |
| ttx | apevec/markmc: Still planning to do a 2013.1.1 on May 9 ? | 21:05 |
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| ttx | jeblair/mordred, sdague/davidkranz: News from Infra/QA teams ? | 21:05 |
| apevec | ttx,yes, plan is to have 2013.1.1 RC this week | 21:05 |
| apevec | ttx, http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-stable-maint/2013-April/000479.html | 21:05 |
| mordred | ttx: we'd like to get all of the projects migrated to testr sooner rather than later | 21:05 |
| ttx | apevec: help needed ? blockers ? | 21:05 |
| mordred | ttx: so that it's an early cycle rather than late cycle thing | 21:06 |
| apevec | need help reviewing proposed backports, always | 21:06 |
| ttx | mordred: how about filing h1 blueprints to cover for that... then hunt down assignees to do the work ? | 21:06 |
| mordred | but I do not believe we have the manpower to do all the projects ourselves - it would be great if we could get projects to help out with that | 21:06 |
| mordred | ttx: ok. I can do that | 21:06 |
| apevec | ttx, I've seen some periodic stable jobs failing, e.g. https://jenkins.openstack.org/job/periodic-quantum-python26-stable-grizzly/ | 21:07 |
| mordred | I might want to bug the ptls for suggestions of people | 21:07 |
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| ttx | mordred: that way you can ignore the projects that are already done | 21:07 |
| * russellb is very thankful that you guys did it for nova | 21:07 | |
| mordred | yay. I love ignoring nova and quantum | 21:07 |
| ttx | and i'll review the unassigned blueprints in this meeting anyway | 21:07 |
| mordred | :) | 21:07 |
| ttx | so it won't fall in a blackhole (unless the PTL removes it from the list) | 21:07 |
| shardy | mordred: we have testr migration patches about to land | 21:07 |
| mordred | shardy: you are magical ponies | 21:08 |
| russellb | unicorns! | 21:08 |
| ttx | apevec: ok, just raise a flag if you need more help to hit the proposed date | 21:08 |
| dolphm | ttx: i assume only h1 bp's need assignee's at this point, correct? | 21:08 |
| mordred | ttx: also, i started with the flake8 migration for everybody, and then wift pointed out that flake8 wasn't pinned in my patches - so I'll be going back to fix that | 21:08 |
| ttx | dolphm: would be great, but i won't yell until next week | 21:09 |
| mordred | s/wift/swift/ | 21:09 |
| ttx | mordred: ok | 21:09 |
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| dolphm | mordred: s/swift/wift/ | 21:09 |
| ttx | anything else before we go project-specific ? | 21:09 |
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| mordred | nope. | 21:10 |
| ttx | #topic Oslo status | 21:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Oslo status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:10 | |
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| ttx | markmc: hi again. | 21:10 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/havana | 21:10 |
| markmc | #info first Oslo project meeting this Friday, May 3rd at 1400 UTC - agenda is messaging work in Havana | 21:10 |
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| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo#Regular_Meeting_Schedule | 21:10 |
| markmc | right, blueprints | 21:11 |
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| markmc | I'm really just getting started massaging them | 21:11 |
| ttx | Looks like they were recently worked on | 21:11 |
| markmc | but the list is the work I know is planned for havana | 21:11 |
| markmc | recently? really? | 21:11 |
| * markmc looks innocent | 21:11 | |
| ttx | rpc-api-review depends on blueprint that is not in plan (no-kombu-default) | 21:11 |
| markmc | what milestones each should be targeted for is still fuzzy | 21:11 |
| markmc | ttx, thanks will fix | 21:11 |
| ttx | otherwise looks good | 21:12 |
| markmc | ok | 21:12 |
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| markmc | lots of messaging work planned for havana | 21:12 |
| ttx | markmc: how complete is this list ? | 21:12 |
| markmc | unclear how realistic it is to get it done | 21:12 |
| ttx | 50% ? | 21:12 |
| markmc | ttx, there are a few unreviewed blueprints that I need to ping people about | 21:13 |
| markmc | maybe another 3 or 4 to come, I'd say ... max | 21:13 |
| ttx | markmc: should be mostly done by next week ? | 21:13 |
| markmc | ahhr | 21:13 |
| * markmc will walk the plank otherwise | 21:13 | |
| russellb | i may have one for pinning rpc versions on the client side ... | 21:13 |
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| ttx | you won('t be alone on that plank I fear | 21:13 |
| russellb | not sure if i filed that, it's filed for nova though | 21:13 |
| markmc | russellb, interesting | 21:14 |
| * markmc looks | 21:14 | |
| ttx | Anything else on the oslo topic ? | 21:14 |
| * markmc sees https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/rpc-support-for-objects too | 21:14 | |
| markmc | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/rpc-version-control | 21:14 |
| markmc | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/rpc-support-for-objects | 21:14 |
| russellb | markmc: ah yes, that's something for nova, too | 21:14 |
| markmc | ttx, nope | 21:14 |
| russellb | thanks | 21:14 |
| ttx | looks like you need to hunt misplaced bps too :) | 21:14 |
| ttx | #topic Keystone status | 21:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:15 | |
| ttx | dolphm: o/ | 21:15 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:15 |
| russellb | misplaced blueprints = my fault | 21:15 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/havana | 21:15 |
| ttx | lock-user is not in series goal while targeted to a series milestone -- should I add it ? | 21:15 |
| dolphm | ttx: hmm, i'd rather untarget the milestone | 21:16 |
| ttx | dolphm: will do. want me to set status for inherited-domain-roles pagination-backend-support and keystone-performance-benchmark to "Not started" ? | 21:17 |
| dolphm | please do | 21:17 |
| ttx | will do | 21:17 |
| ttx | Looks good otherwise | 21:17 |
| ttx | Anything more about Keystone ? | 21:17 |
| dolphm | we'll probably add a couple more ldap-related bp's in the next week, but that's it | 21:18 |
| dolphm | target, not create | 21:18 |
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| ttx | cool. we'll probably focus on havana-1 starting next week | 21:18 |
| ttx | #topic Ceilometer status | 21:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ceilometer status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:18 | |
| ttx | jd__: o/ | 21:18 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/havana | 21:18 |
| jd__ | all good :-) | 21:18 |
| ttx | You have 38 blueprints in there, how complete is that ? | 21:19 |
| jd__ | I think we've most of our blueprints ready now | 21:19 |
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| ttx | jd__: General rule: you should set a priority for everything, and a delivery status ("Not started" is way better than "Unknown") | 21:19 |
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| ttx | Ideally you should also have an assignee and a target milestone for everything, so that we have a better idea of who does what and when | 21:19 |
| jd__ | ttx: yep, I need to work on that | 21:20 |
| ttx | Things without an assignee or a deadline generally tend to not get done | 21:20 |
| jd__ | finding an assignee for everything is going to be tricky at this time I think | 21:20 |
| jd__ | ttx: ack | 21:20 |
| ttx | assignees should at least be set for the next milestone | 21:20 |
| ttx | Remember you can run ttx.py from https://github.com/ttx/bp-issues to detect issues with the published plan | 21:20 |
| jd__ | ttx: didn't know, will look into that, thanks :) | 21:20 |
| ttx | alarming-threshold-evaluation-worker is marked obsolete, can I remove it from the series goal ? | 21:21 |
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| jd__ | ttx: yep | 21:21 |
| ttx | willdo | 21:21 |
| ttx | Another general rule is that a blueprint should not depend on blueprints with lower priority | 21:21 |
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| ttx | Your "alarming" blueprint (High) depends on Medium/Low blueprints -- that should probably be adjusted | 21:21 |
| ttx | That's all I had | 21:22 |
| jd__ | indeed | 21:22 |
| ttx | Questions on Ceilometer ? | 21:22 |
| ttx | #topic Swift status | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Swift status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:22 | |
| notmyname | hi | 21:22 |
| ttx | notmyname: o/ | 21:23 |
| notmyname | ttx: I'm guessing you have the same comments for me as for jd__? :-) | 21:23 |
| ttx | How is 1.8.1 progressing ? | 21:23 |
| ttx | notmyname: well, i would certainly welcome a bit more priority setting, yes :) | 21:23 |
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| notmyname | the major thing for 1.8.1 is finishing global clusters. that front is moving well, I think | 21:23 |
| ttx | but prio is only really useful when you have a lot of blueprints | 21:23 |
| ttx | if it's just 1-5, not that much | 21:24 |
| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/swift/+milestone/1.8.1 | 21:24 |
| ttx | Any rough idea of when it's likely to be completed ? | 21:24 |
| notmyname | not yet | 21:24 |
| ttx | OK then | 21:25 |
| ttx | Anything more on Swift ? | 21:25 |
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| ttx | Thanks for posting that general havana overview btw | 21:25 |
| notmyname | you're welcome | 21:25 |
| notmyname | I'd love to see work (and help) on those fronts | 21:25 |
| notmyname | over the next few months | 21:25 |
| ttx | Other PTLs should probably also post a general havana roadmap overview when they are done filing bPs | 21:25 |
| Guest40831 | +1 | 21:25 |
| notmyname | our first swift meeting post summit is tomorrow | 21:25 |
| notmyname | 1900utc | 21:26 |
| ttx | notmyname: anything else ? | 21:26 |
| notmyname | nope. questions? | 21:26 |
| ttx | #topic Glance status | 21:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Glance status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:26 | |
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| ttx | markwash: o/ | 21:26 |
| markwash | ahoy | 21:27 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/havana | 21:27 |
| markwash | I've been doing some quick fixes there after rerunning your script | 21:27 |
| markwash | may want to reload | 21:27 |
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| ttx | you have a number of blueprints in the "proposed" list @ | 21:27 |
| ttx | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/glance/havana/+setgoals | 21:27 |
| ttx | You should probably review those and accept/reject them appropriately | 21:27 |
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| markwash | ttx: definitely, thanks for the link | 21:28 |
| ttx | inherited-image-property-support is probably off, since it's marked obsolete | 21:28 |
| markwash | yup | 21:28 |
| ttx | gridfs-store has been implemented and therefore should probably be accepted ? | 21:28 |
| ttx | I'll let you go through it :) | 21:28 |
| ttx | markwash: How complete is that list (accepted + proposed) ? | 21:29 |
| ttx | doe that reflect the summit outcomes ? | 21:29 |
| ttx | does* | 21:29 |
| markwash | not entirely | 21:29 |
| markwash | for one, we need to break out and further discuss the upload/download workflow | 21:29 |
| ttx | think the list should be good by next week ? | 21:29 |
| markwash | I hope so. . | 21:29 |
| ttx | all marks on the plank | 21:29 |
| * markwash struggles with launchapad | 21:30 | |
| markwash | we've had glance team meetings to go through the bps to get a sense | 21:30 |
| ttx | markwash: feel free to hit me with questions | 21:30 |
| markwash | the glance team is taking a pretty hands on approach to bp management | 21:30 |
| markwash | which is making the process a bit slower, but hopefully the outcome will be better because of it | 21:30 |
| ttx | agreed | 21:30 |
| markwash | by next week we should be in good shape, at least for H1 | 21:30 |
| ttx | sounds good | 21:30 |
| ttx | Anything more on Glance ? | 21:30 |
| markwash | ttx: I will definitely ask you some questions afterwards | 21:30 |
| markwash | not from me, thanks | 21:31 |
| ttx | #topic Quantum status | 21:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quantum status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:31 | |
| ttx | markmcclain: hi! | 21:31 |
| markmcclain | hi | 21:31 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/havana | 21:31 |
| ttx | 20 blueprints in... and 30+ proposed @ https://blueprints.launchpad.net/quantum/havana/+setgoals | 21:31 |
| ttx | So this is still work in progress, I guess :) | 21:32 |
| markmcclain | yep :) | 21:32 |
| ttx | Who is working on quantum-api-wadl ? It's in progress and targeted to havana-1... | 21:32 |
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| markmcclain | Alex Xu was working on it | 21:33 |
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| markmcclain | it was working carried over from Grizzly | 21:33 |
| ttx | ok, maybe assign him to it | 21:33 |
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| ttx | When do you think you'll have a Havana plan that matches your current knowledge of the plans that everyone showed up at summit ? | 21:33 |
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| markmcclain | I set a final deadline of Friday.. so should have everything in for next week | 21:34 |
| ttx | markmcclain: awesome | 21:34 |
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| ttx | markmcclain: making progress on that new code name ? | 21:34 |
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| russellb | random codename idea: Tantrum | 21:35 |
| markmcclain | haha | 21:35 |
| * russellb thinks of network traffic flying around like a digital temper tantrum | 21:35 | |
| ttx | Anything else on Quantum ? | 21:35 |
| markmcclain | still working on it.. none of the names have really excited anyone | 21:36 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:36 | |
| ttx | jgriffith: o/ | 21:36 |
| jgriffith | hey there | 21:36 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/havana | 21:36 |
| ttx | Still have a lot to review in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/havana/+setgoals | 21:37 |
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| ttx | In particular https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/scheduler-hints which is proposed for havana-1 | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | ttx: that ones been updated | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | ttx: just a minute ago | 21:37 |
| jgriffith | as well as a couple others on this list | 21:38 |
| ttx | hmm, it's still proposed | 21:38 |
| ttx | is LP eventually consistent ? | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | hmmm | 21:38 |
| ttx | jgriffith: what did you update on it ? | 21:38 |
| jgriffith | ttx: https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:38 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: doh! | 21:38 |
| ttx | jgriffith: it needs to have the series goal set to "havana". Stupid LP doesn't link series to milestones | 21:39 |
| ttx | my main gripe with it | 21:39 |
| ttx | Also don't forget to set priorities for already-accepted stuff | 21:39 |
| ttx | jgriffith: How is your Havana plan coming along ? Expecting a lot more changes ? | 21:39 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I think things are solidifying | 21:40 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: this list is a pretty good summary of the summit | 21:40 |
| ttx | jgriffith: next week should be mostly good ? | 21:40 |
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| jgriffith | I don't expect many changes between now and then | 21:40 |
| ttx | OK. Anything more about Cinder ? | 21:40 |
| ttx | #topic Nova status | 21:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:41 | |
| ttx | russellb: o/ | 21:41 |
| russellb | hi | 21:41 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/havana | 21:41 |
| ttx | Looking quite good ! | 21:41 |
| russellb | i've been working on this pretty aggressively | 21:41 |
| ttx | You still have a lot in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/havana/+setgoals | 21:41 |
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| russellb | i'd say it's most of the way there, but i need to do another pass on summit stuff this week, so should be in good shape by next week | 21:41 |
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| russellb | in +setgoals, I've reviewed all of them | 21:42 |
| russellb | i dont want to approve any that are still there for one reason or another | 21:42 |
| russellb | i have some cleanup to do on blueprints where the milestone has been set, but they haven't been accepted into the havana series ... | 21:42 |
| ttx | you could reject them. That will just unset the proposed series goal | 21:42 |
| russellb | that quirk is annoying. | 21:42 |
| russellb | ah ok, but they'll still show up in milestones right? :( | 21:43 |
| ttx | ah. uh. yes. | 21:43 |
| russellb | but ok, yeah, will continue cleaning up | 21:43 |
| ttx | How is the plan coming along ? A lot more work to do on it ? | 21:43 |
| russellb | not too much more | 21:43 |
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| russellb | i think havana-1 is too aggressive right now | 21:44 |
| russellb | and i need to do a pass on notes from last week to see what we've missed | 21:44 |
| ttx | wow, indeed :) | 21:44 |
| russellb | will be done this week | 21:44 |
| ttx | we'll review h1 next week | 21:44 |
| ttx | will be a good time to postpone and retarget | 21:44 |
| russellb | notes from summit, not last week | 21:44 |
| ttx | Any question on Nova ? | 21:44 |
| russellb | thanks | 21:45 |
| ttx | russellb: once done would be great to have an email to -dev with the main Nova Havana themes | 21:45 |
| russellb | ttx: good call | 21:45 |
| ttx | I know people really loved those in Grizzly | 21:45 |
| ttx | #topic Heat status | 21:45 |
| russellb | ttx: was also thinking of including a list of stuff we've discussed as important/valuable, but with no known assignee | 21:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:45 | |
| shardy | o/ | 21:46 |
| ttx | russellb: yes, good stuff | 21:46 |
| ttx | shardy: hi, welcome ! | 21:46 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/havana | 21:46 |
| shardy | ttx: thanks :) | 21:46 |
| ttx | Don't forget to set target milestones to give an indication of when stuff is likely to land | 21:46 |
| ttx | Should I consider everything in "Unknown" status to be actually "Not started" ? | 21:47 |
| shardy | Yep, planning to do that tomorrow after our meeting, need info from people | 21:47 |
| ttx | (i can fix it for you) | 21:47 |
| shardy | ttx: I changed most to Not started a few mins ago | 21:47 |
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| shardy | maybe I missed some ;) | 21:47 |
| ttx | Will fix | 21:47 |
| shardy | thanks | 21:47 |
| ttx | also instance-users has no priority | 21:47 |
| ttx | How complete is that plan ? Reflecting the current known state ? | 21:48 |
| shardy | Ok will fix instance-users | 21:48 |
| shardy | I think it's pretty close, I need to add a few sub-bps related to open-api-dsl, but otherwise nearly there I think | 21:48 |
| ttx | sounds good | 21:48 |
| ttx | Questions about Heat ? | 21:48 |
| ttx | #topic Horizon status | 21:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Horizon status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:49 | |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: hey | 21:49 |
| ttx | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/havana | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | \o | 21:49 |
| ttx | Same here... Should I consider everything in "Unknown" status to be actually "Not started" ? | 21:49 |
| gabrielhurley | I just set "not started" on everything that was "unknown" for you ;-) | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | like, right just now | 21:50 |
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| ttx | like JUST right now | 21:50 |
| ttx | Could you explain why https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/d3 is "essential" for the release ? | 21:50 |
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| gabrielhurley | as in actually truly just this moment | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | ;-) | 21:50 |
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| gabrielhurley | ttx: it's essential because it is replacing a number of one-offs and will be used to build several other blueprints in this release | 21:50 |
| ttx | see, you get original questions :) | 21:50 |
| gabrielhurley | It must get done, and must be as soon as possible | 21:51 |
| gabrielhurley | that makes it "essential" right? | 21:51 |
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| gabrielhurley | also, I love original questions :-) | 21:51 |
| ttx | yeah, and being targeted to h1 makes it not dangerous to me, so ok | 21:51 |
| gabrielhurley | I've been through this a few times. I know how to make you happy. :-D | 21:51 |
| * markwash studies | 21:52 | |
| ttx | You addressed all I had on my little notebook | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | one thing I do want to point out | 21:52 |
| gabrielhurley | I've got some interesting things I need to bring to the table with the larger community/TC in the next week regarding what we're doing with API versions, keystone's catalog, and the clients. The discussion started on the ML, but we need a path forward ASAP. | 21:52 |
| russellb | gabrielhurley: +1 | 21:53 |
| russellb | gabrielhurley: i like that topic | 21:53 |
| gabrielhurley | So expect more from me on the ML. I'm aiming to have a proposal which the community can then implement across all the projects/clients | 21:53 |
| dolphm | awesome | 21:53 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: link to the thread ? I could add it to the meeting minutes | 21:53 |
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| gabrielhurley | I'll have to find the link later | 21:54 |
| gabrielhurley | but I'll get it to you | 21:54 |
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| ttx | #help please participate to the thread that Gabriel started on API versions discovery | 21:54 |
| ttx | Anything more on the Horizon ? | 21:54 |
| ttx | gabrielhurley: oh. How complete is that havana list at this point ? | 21:55 |
| gabrielhurley | ah, ttx: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-April/008127.html | 21:55 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-April/008127.html | 21:55 |
| gabrielhurley | ttx: the list is complete as I see it | 21:55 |
| ttx | awesome, first past the post | 21:55 |
| gabrielhurley | it encompasses the themes for havana and everything talked aboutat the summit | 21:55 |
| ttx | Looks like we are done.. 5 min in advance. Easy. Room for at least two more integrated projects :) | 21:56 |
| gabrielhurley | sweet! | 21:56 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:56 |
| matiu | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/entrypoints-plugins | 21:56 |
| russellb | mordred: still want to tackle that? ^^^ | 21:57 |
| matiu | I'd like to know if anyone knows why that's stalled .. | 21:57 |
| matiu | and how could we get it moving again | 21:57 |
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| russellb | matiu: let's catch up with mordred on that, can do it out of meeting | 21:57 |
| ttx | matiu: you should ping mordred off-meeting and sync with russellb | 21:57 |
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| russellb | ttx: jinx :) | 21:57 |
| matiu | will do :) | 21:57 |
| ttx | alrighty | 21:58 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 30 21:58:03 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-04-30-21.02.html | 21:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-04-30-21.02.txt | 21:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2013/project.2013-04-30-21.02.log.html | 21:58 |
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| gabrielhurley | #startmeeting horizon | 22:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Apr 30 22:00:43 2013 UTC. The chair is gabrielhurley. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 22:00 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic overview | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "overview (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:00 | |
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| gabrielhurley | I'm pretty sure I change the name of this first topic every week... | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | anyhow | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | hello folks! | 22:01 |
| lcheng | hello! | 22:01 |
| david-lyle | hello | 22:01 |
| vkmc | hii | 22:01 |
| jpich | hey | 22:01 |
| gabrielhurley | Lemme start off by saying I couldn't be mor pleased with how Havana is looking already! | 22:01 |
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| bradjones | hey | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | We've barely started and we already have two dozen bugs fixed, blueprints in code review, and a great-looking plan | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | that's just fantastic | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | I finished doing a first pass at the full Havan roadmap today | 22:02 |
| gabrielhurley | check out https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/havana | 22:03 |
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| gabrielhurley | or any of the indvidual milestones | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | I think that leads into the next topic | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic blueprints and bugs | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints and bugs (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:03 | |
| gabrielhurley | H1 has all it's blueprints assigned, so folks should just move forward on those | 22:03 |
| gabrielhurley | and just 'cuz something may not be targeted to H1 doesn't mean you shouldn't work on it now | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | the targets are rough measures of how much I think we can bite off in a set of time, and some idea of known blockers in other services, etc. | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | but if you wanna work ahead I never mind bumping blueprints *up* | 22:04 |
| gabrielhurley | For my part, I discovered an interesting quandary working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/api-capability-detection | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | which is that the keystone service catalog endpoints have hard-coded versions in them | 22:05 |
| gabrielhurley | within the next week I'll have a proposal out to the mailing list to remove all version and tenant info from the service catalog endpoints, and instead to have the clients be able to construct the appropriate endpoints based on what's returned by keystone and what you pass in. | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | so, progress there is good, but won't be done this week | 22:06 |
| dolphm | (YAY!) | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | in the interim I'm going to lay down some groundwork code for switching versions that'll hack around it | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | I want to make sure all the v3 API work isn't blocked, so this'll be a stopgap measure | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | I should have that up in the next week | 22:06 |
| gabrielhurley | who else wants to discuss or report in on blueprints? | 22:07 |
| david-lyle | to be clear, the v2/v3 toggle will work across horizon and django_openstack_auth? | 22:07 |
| gabrielhurley | correct | 22:08 |
| gabrielhurley | okay. I'm not worried about any of the BPs this week so I won't call for specific updates. | 22:09 |
| gabrielhurley | just wanted to give people the opportunity in case anyone wanted to comment | 22:10 |
| bradjones | I'll pitch in about d3 integration | 22:10 |
| gabrielhurley | go for it | 22:10 |
| bradjones | we are making good progress on reworking the quota graphics | 22:10 |
| bradjones | Am looking into displaying the usage summary as some sort of graph over time | 22:11 |
| lcheng | @gabrielhurlye: from openstack_auth, how can I determine the keystone version.. Are we going to explicitly set some parameter in settings file to configure the KS version or I have to make a call on the api discovery function you're working on? | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | very cool. fwiw, I could see those taking up a lot less space by being made into vertical bar graphs or something... | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | usage-over-time would also be awesome | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | ceilometer would help with that and there are future BPs to address that in more detail | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | lcheng: in the short term (like for a couple weeks here) it's gonna be a setting | 22:11 |
| gabrielhurley | it will later depend on version discovery | 22:12 |
| bradjones | would it be a good idea to replace usage summary with graph or have it as an option to display either? | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | see my comments about that above | 22:12 |
| lcheng | okay | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | bradjones: depends on the data source | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | if you're pulling from ceilometer it probably has to be optional | 22:12 |
| bradjones | ok will look into it further once the quota summary is finalised | 22:12 |
| gabrielhurley | excellent | 22:13 |
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| jpich | bradjones: btw, there was a bug about consistency in the quota graphs, perhaps this can be tackled at the same time - https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1102461 | 22:13 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1102461 in horizon "Quota Summary graphs should be consistent in styling" [Low,Confirmed] | 22:13 |
| bradjones | jpich: I'll look into it | 22:13 |
| jpich | Cool | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | great | 22:14 |
| gabrielhurley | anyone else with blueprint comments? | 22:15 |
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| gabrielhurley | cool | 22:15 |
| gabrielhurley | bug-wise we're doing fine. there are a couple that need triage, but nothing that looks dangerous/needs exceptional comment on. | 22:16 |
| gabrielhurley | #topic open discussion | 22:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: horizon)" | 22:16 | |
| gabrielhurley | Other things on people's minds? | 22:16 |
| jpich | Grizzly stable: amotoki had raised the point before the summit that there had been a lot of improvements in the translations after they were pulled into grizzly | 22:16 |
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| jpich | should we open a bug to track this, is it possible to update the translations for a stable release? | 22:16 |
| jpich | If yes it'd be cool to get it in for the first one | 22:17 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: make sure you ping me when you have unversioned catalog code published | 22:17 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: alternatively, i have a bunch of jumbled thoughts in my head on the topic if you'd like me to simply throw them at you | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | dolphm: gonna be a bit for *actual* code. I wanna get pseudo-code reviewed by the community first. | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | feel free to write 'em down and send 'em my way | 22:17 |
| gabrielhurley | I don't think keystone needs to change *that* much, actually | 22:18 |
| dolphm | gabrielhurley: on that thread or off list? | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | it's mostly gonna be changes in the clients and devstack | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | dolphm: that thread is good with me | 22:18 |
| dolphm | will do | 22:18 |
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| gabrielhurley | jpich: backporting the translations is fine with me | 22:18 |
| gabrielhurley | same process as any other backport | 22:18 |
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| jpich | gabrielhurley: I don't think we have pulled the latest ones from Transifex though, since the update was made | 22:19 |
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| gabrielhurley | it's not hard to do | 22:19 |
| gabrielhurley | pip install the transifex client | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | there's already a transifex dotfile committed to the horizon repo | 22:20 |
| jpich | Ok, I'll look into it then | 22:20 |
| gabrielhurley | cool | 22:20 |
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| gabrielhurley | well alright then | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | good meeting folks | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | have a good week and keep up the good work! | 22:25 |
| gabrielhurley | #endmeeting | 22:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 22:25 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Apr 30 22:25:32 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:25 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-04-30-22.00.html | 22:25 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-04-30-22.00.txt | 22:25 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-04-30-22.00.log.html | 22:25 |
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| david-lyle | thanks Gabriel | 22:26 |
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| vkmc | thanks :) | 22:27 |
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