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| jgriffith | DuncanT: thingee bswartz rushiagr kmartin hemna around? | 16:01 |
|---|---|---|
| * med_ waves in silence | 16:01 | |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: yup! | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | med_: well hey there | 16:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:01 |
| hemna | yup | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 1 16:01:27 2013 UTC. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| bswartz | hi | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:01 |
| varma | hi | 16:01 |
| hemna | morning | 16:01 |
| eharney | hi | 16:01 |
| xyang | hi | 16:01 |
| med_ | \o | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | Hey everyone.. good slushy morning to you | 16:01 |
| DuncanT | hey | 16:01 |
| med_ | indeed, very slushy | 16:01 |
| jungleboyj | Morning / evening to you all. | 16:01 |
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| * bswartz wonders if he's missing something | 16:02 | |
| jgriffith | So here's the agenda for today: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: it's rain/snow mix in Colorado this morning | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: very unpleasant | 16:02 |
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| med_ | lots of snow | 16:02 |
| bswartz | ah, that's too bad | 16:02 |
| hemna | nice and warm here today :) | 16:03 |
| jungleboyj | Word is you guys are sending that our way jgriffith. :-( | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | hemna: rub it in | 16:03 |
| med_ | heh, good for farmers, etc. Not too bad. | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | I'm happy... I'll have hay this year, but at any rate... we digress :) | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | #topic bp status updates | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bp status updates (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:03 | |
| jgriffith | Take a look at https://launchpad.net/cinder/havana | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | Or better yet: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/havana | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | I believe that's a pretty comprehensive list of what we talked about at the summit | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | but if there are things missing please do let me know or get something proposed ASAP | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I did not approve yours yet | 16:05 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: pls add the share service blueprint | 16:05 |
| DuncanT | Moving big I/O jobs out to a worker process | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I had an equivalent but folks from NetApp protested so I removed it for now | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I'm also not sure about having a Copyright on a blueprint TBH :) | 16:06 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/file-shares-service | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: ahh.. yes | 16:07 |
| hemna | jgriffith, ok so you are going to do the state machine? | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | part of the migration bp | 16:07 |
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| eharney | lio-support-via-targetd may be changing shape a bit from the original plan | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | eharney: changes are *ok* just so we have something recorded | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | eharney: or do you mean like "not doing it that way" | 16:07 |
| hemna | and where is the "brick" BP ? | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | hemna: brick is broken out into 4 or 5 sub-bps | 16:08 |
| hemna | ok | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | hemna: we'll go from there on how it gets packaged/distributed | 16:08 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: We are working on getting DB2 support in Havana. Any chance we can get that BP here too? | 16:08 |
| eharney | jgriffith: looking at leveraging libstoragemgmt rather than writing a driver that uses jsonrpc with targetd -- so, still supports targetd, but may do other stuff too | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | hemna: may be oslo, may be our own pypi upload etc | 16:08 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I'll probably separate the I/O worker into a blueprint of its own | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | eharney: that should be fine, feel free to update whiteboard etc as you go along | 16:09 |
| eharney | jgriffith: ok i'll add some notes now | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: is the milestone ok with you? | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | eharney: | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | not DuncanT sorry | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | eharney: I wanted to check with you but took a chance and made it H2 | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | eharney: It would really be nice to have it in sooner rather than later and get it tested | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | eharney: I'd also like to consider making LIO default | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | eharney: so the more time on all of these different pieces in test the better | 16:10 |
| eharney | jgriffith: hmm, certainly possible, i'll say stick with H2 for now and i'll let you know if concerns arise | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | eharney: sounds fair | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | hemna: I assigned state-machines to myself | 16:11 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: sorry, I was late today. HP is requiring that we add the copyright to the blueprints. | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | hemna: however if there's an interest or somebody gets to it first we can reassign | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: no worries, we'll just use the other version then :) | 16:12 |
| DuncanT | The other blueprint that is missing is anything volume-encryption related | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: haha :) | 16:12 |
| hemna | ok I was kinda interested in helping with that and the brick project | 16:12 |
| hemna | I have cycles to work on it at least | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | hemna: yes... I put you down for the attach bp of course | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | hemna: and there's going to be some other things I think that are going to creep in there | 16:12 |
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| hemna | we should just get together at some point and iron out the direction, if you want me to help. | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | hemna: but we can sync up and work together | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | hemna: :) | 16:13 |
| hemna | ok sounds great. | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | agreed | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: back to encryption | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: sighhhh | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: we need to figure out what to do there | 16:13 |
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| med_ | words can be copywritten. Just makes it hard when someone needs to go in and change the blueprint, likely need to add their own copyright atop. | 16:13 |
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| jgriffith | Let's have a topic later in the meeting to talk a bit about that | 16:14 |
| med_ | s/atop/below/ | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I'll ping the guys from the summit and see if we can get a revised design sketched up | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | med_: indeed... and really the product of a summit session doesn't really seem to get an HP copyright IMO | 16:14 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: I also recieved an email from them last night about a meeting to go through things again | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: It has so many dependencies I'd be surprised if it gets sorted this cycle TBH | 16:14 |
| med_ | jgriffith, completely agree. | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | Ok... so we were missing: | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I'm certainly interested in talking to them again... some sensible ideas were starting to fall out at the end | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | 1. encryption (which is kinda TBD on how that looks) | 16:15 |
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| jgriffith | 2. and kinda missing the worker service (I've commented in Avishay's BP to break that up and add those sorts of details) | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | Anything else? | 16:16 |
| eharney | i will likely be submitting another one related to Gluster | 16:16 |
| eharney | related to QEMU direct gluster support | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | eharney: sure... sooner is better than later but I expect we'll have new ideas as we go along | 16:16 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: the share service blueprint | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: bswartz yes I haven't forgotten you | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: bswartz I'm cursious to learn more about the gluster changes and why they can make things work without a separate service | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: bswartz also would like to find out if there's a way for you to collaborate with eharney and the folks from IBM that want GPFS | 16:17 |
| thingee | jgriffith: are we onto new proposals now? | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | thingee: sure | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:18 |
| thingee | if we're talking about what's missing | 16:18 |
| med_ | [topic] new BPs | 16:18 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: we haven't done anything w/ gluster yet | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: let's come back | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | #topic new bp's that we missed | 16:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new bp's that we missed (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:18 | |
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| jgriffith | thingee: please go ahead | 16:19 |
| thingee | switch to another web frame work and no pissing off ops in the upgrade | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | thingee: haha! | 16:19 |
| hemna | :) | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I can't believe I missed that one | 16:19 |
| thingee | jgriffith: I just added it last night | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | thingee: we already planned on doing it and going forward | 16:19 |
| hemna | what are the other projects doing wrt the web frameworks? | 16:19 |
| rushiagr | i had a chat with eharney yestday, and he seemed interested in shares service work | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | thingee: :) | 16:20 |
| thingee | jgriffith: been pushing hard at work for switching to new projects ;) | 16:20 |
| eharney | yes, i am going to try to get involved there | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | eharney: rushiagr bswartz I promise I'll get to your shares service | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | be patient | 16:20 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: cool | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | thingee: link to your BP? | 16:21 |
| thingee | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/web-framework-switch | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | thingee: cool... thoughts on delivery milestone? | 16:22 |
| thingee | oh man would I love h1 | 16:22 |
| thingee | don't think there would be enough time for reviewing though at this point | 16:22 |
| xyang | thingee: does this support both python 3 and 2 | 16:23 |
| hemna | the sooner the better :) | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | thingee: hehe me too... I can target it for H1, but that might be ambitious | 16:23 |
| thingee | xyang: both | 16:23 |
| thingee | we should be moving towards py3 compatible | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | thingee: let's do H2 with the hope of seeing it very early | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | thingee: seem reasonable? | 16:23 |
| thingee | early is my goal of course so we have people catching any issues. | 16:24 |
| thingee | sure | 16:24 |
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| thingee | I might just surprise y'all | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I won't be surprised :) | 16:24 |
| med_ | does that answer the question: Does pecan force a Python3 version change? | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I have high expectations :) | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | med_: it doesn't force it no | 16:25 |
| med_ | nod. | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | but I'll let thingee answer | 16:25 |
| xyang | thingee: do we eventually need to rewrite everything in python 3? | 16:25 |
| thingee | jgriffith: correct | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | xyang: no | 16:25 |
| thingee | xyang: that's a goal for sure | 16:25 |
| thingee | maybe early I | 16:25 |
| xyang | ok, good | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | thingee: ? | 16:25 |
| thingee | release | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | xyang: thingee maybe I'm not clear on the question | 16:25 |
| thingee | jgriffith: py3 compatible in cinder core, but not deps in early I | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | thingee: k | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | py3 compat is different than rewrite in py3 IMO | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:26 |
| thingee | jgriffith: lets shoot for getting rid of xml template crud in H2 | 16:26 |
| thingee | using wsme | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | yep, sounds good | 16:26 |
| thingee | I gotta make the bp to talk about that some more | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | xyang: there's an OS wide effort to start working on py3 compat as well this cycle | 16:26 |
| thingee | I've been mainly spending my time over the weekend trying to get paste to still be fine with the pecan stuff so people don't need to make config changes | 16:27 |
| xyang | griffith: I saw that. Not sure about the details. | 16:27 |
| thingee | that is all for me. | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | thingee: thx | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | xyang: there's a subteam of folks volunteering to work on it | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | xyang: not much detail yet but there's an etherpad of the session outcomes out there | 16:28 |
| xyang | jgriffith: ok | 16:29 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Is this an appropriate time for me to put my plug for the DB2 BP? | 16:29 |
| xyang | jgriffith: sure, I'll check it out | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: sure | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | #topic DB2 BP | 16:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DB2 BP (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:30 | |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: link please | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/db2-database | 16:30 |
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| jgriffith | jungleboyj: so my hesitation on this was... | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: it seems like a much broader feature than just a cinder feature | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | jungleboyj: Are you looking at doing the same for nova or just cinder? Should this be OSLO work? | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: was curious as to why you wanted to start with Cinder, why it wasn't targetted for OSLO etc | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: haha! | 16:31 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: DuncanT: Good questions. This is broader than just Cinder. We have done the work, internally, to get all the services running on DB2. | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: I'd suggest making it a contribution to OSLO | 16:32 |
| jungleboyj | We are now just working on the details for getting it back to the community. | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: IIRC there's some effort taking place to move the DB stuff there already | 16:33 |
| thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:33 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Ok, so, just to be clear, if we have changes to the migration scripts, etc. we would want to be tracking all of those against an OSLO BP? | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: well... | 16:34 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: For all the projects? | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: I think common db code is a goal we already have | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: and I don't see the point in just modifying/updating cinder db only | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: you'll get more bang for your buck doing this OS wide | 16:34 |
| hemna | +1 | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | heavier lift obviously, but ther'es a lot of shared code there | 16:35 |
| DuncanT | I think fixing up migrate etc is a sub-task, after get DB into OSLO and doing the DB2 work there | 16:35 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Right. We are able to run a combination of DBs, but I doubt real-world people do that. | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: don't get me wrong, I like the idea, just not sure it's a good approach to do it as a Cinder change | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: indeed, but people come up with interesting thing | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | things | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: you should also be looking at reddwarf project | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | DuncanT: jgriffith: Ok, this is helpful. We are trying to figure out how we bring this in. | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | I think I may be blazing the trail a bit here. | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: I think you want a much broader audience than just us block storage folks :) | 16:36 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Ok, I will take this back and check into the OSLO aspect. With that said, at some point we are going to want to say that the Cinder support is in. | 16:37 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: The good news is that getting Cinder on DB2 was quite painless. :-) | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: cool | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: the rest should be pretty much the same | 16:38 |
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| jgriffith | jungleboyj: all of that sqla code is pretty similar | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: the models/design are identical across cinder/nova | 16:38 |
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| jgriffith | Ok... I think that sort of covered item 2 on the agenda, but just incase | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | #topic new proposals | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "new proposals (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:39 | |
| jgriffith | anything we missed? | 16:39 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: do we need to talk about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/multi-attach-volume | 16:39 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: In fact, I didn't have any code changes for Cinder, now that I look again. It just worked. | 16:39 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Anyway, thanks for the discussion! | 16:39 |
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| jgriffith | jungleboyj: welcome | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: we did, but you missed it :) | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: I had an equivalent posted/accepted already | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: wait... | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | you were here | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | bahh | 16:40 |
| kmartin | ok...thanks | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | we can discuss it and the objections raised by esker and bswartz | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | we'll save it for the end :) | 16:41 |
| kmartin | ok | 16:41 |
| bswartz | so to be clear, we don't object to this | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | #topic status updates | 16:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status updates (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:41 | |
| bswartz | the objections I rasied were ones others raised at the design dummit | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | In terms of status, I think most of the focus has been on gettign bp's | 16:42 |
| bswartz | I and Rob's comments were mostly to draw attention to the fact that some use cases for multi-attach-volume overlap with the share service stuff | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | and decompressing after the summit :) | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: ok, thank you for the input | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | So here's something I'd like to try this cycle :) | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | I was thinking that we could have formal updates on work being done in the current cycle each week | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | It would be a standing agenda item in the weekly or biweekly meeting | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | The idea is, if you have a bp assigned to you for the current milestone | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | you go in at least once a week and update the status/whiteboard whatever | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | just some way for us to track progress | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | I'd like to avoid the mad-dash or surprises the last week of the release cycle | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | does that sound reasonable/useful to everyone? | 16:44 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: sounds like a good idea, we did that in Grizzly for the FC changes | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | kmartin: indeed | 16:44 |
| bswartz | last week of the release or last week of the milestone? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | milestone | 16:44 |
| bswartz | Are all the milestones problematic or just the last one? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | sorry | 16:44 |
| xyang | jgriffith: sounds good | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | all | 16:45 |
| bswartz | okay I like it | 16:45 |
| varma | sounds good | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: a number of us typically end up pulling all nighters the last couple days of each milestone | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | doing reviews, baby-sitting CI etc | 16:45 |
| bswartz | I'm aware of the CI issues | 16:45 |
| kmartin | varma: hey, welcome! | 16:46 |
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| varma | kmartin: thanks, Kurt | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | Most of them aren't CI issues any longer but things like merges, rebases etc | 16:46 |
| xyang | hi varma | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | varma: hey.. wann intro yourself? | 16:46 |
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| varma | jgriffith:sure | 16:47 |
| hemna | varma, welcome!! | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | varma: sorry... times up | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | varma: just kidding :) | 16:47 |
| varma | Proposed FC SAN Zone/Access Control Manager at the summit and working on zone manager and zone driver interfaces for cinder-fc-zone-manager bp to bring in FC SAN support to Cinder | 16:48 |
| varma | hemna: thanks, Walter | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | varma: very cool... real name? | 16:48 |
| varma | Yep | 16:48 |
| varma | Varma Bhupatiraju | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | Nice to meet ya | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | Ok... | 16:48 |
| varma | xyang: thanks, Xing | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | #topic behavior standardization | 16:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "behavior standardization (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:49 | |
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| jgriffith | So this is something I seem to be in the minority on | 16:49 |
| med_ | ruh roh, big brother. | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | The concept of same expected behaviors regardless of driver/backend | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | since I can't seem to get concensus on this, even though I think it's a bad idea | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | .... I have a possible compromise | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | So for example: jdurgin DuncanT | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | You want to be able to delete parent volumes of snaps | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | (others may want this as well) | 16:50 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: I think the actual issue is where we draw the line -- I don't think anyone disagrees that there needs to be a minumum bar | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | My argument is bad to have different capabilities/behaviors for diff drivers etc | 16:51 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: jdurgin my proposal goes like this: | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | What if we provided a flag in the conf file to enable this? | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | Then that was the global behavior for the install | 16:51 |
| DuncanT | Ok... still some complications with multi-backend though | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | In other words, it's up to the OS-admin to set this correctly based on what his backend is | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: how so? | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: What I'm getting at is it's LCD | 16:52 |
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| med_ | jgriffith, you're saying the admin defines what "standard" means to him | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | med_: not entirely... but | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | I'd still like a mechanism where a backend can express what it is capable of... the trouble with a switch is that people poke it to see what happens | 16:53 |
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| jgriffith | Ok... | 16:53 |
| guitarzan | multibackend also has issues with the snapshots included in gb flag | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | it seems my compromise won't fly either | 16:53 |
| guitarzan | but I digress | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | never mind | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | I'm not necessarily against a switch to say 'enable not quite standard behaviours' | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | But I'd like to maybe add a method to the drivers to express which of those behaviours they support | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: ok, I'll just give up | 16:54 |
| hemna | isn't that what the capabilities thing is about? | 16:54 |
| hemna | or no. | 16:54 |
| guitarzan | it could be | 16:54 |
| DuncanT | These are not mutually exclusive or incompatable ideas I don't think? | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | hemna: yes,but the proposal is to not have everything behave the same | 16:54 |
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| jgriffith | hemna: it would be wild wild west | 16:55 |
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| jgriffith | everybody does what they want as long as the report it | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | they | 16:55 |
| guitarzan | cats and dogs living together. mass hysteria! | 16:55 |
| hemna | ugh | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: haha! | 16:55 |
| hemna | well that's bad mmmkay | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | hemna: in other words no standard expected behaviors | 16:55 |
| DuncanT | Define the 'correct' behaviour and have a switch to enable any none-standard behaviours seems fine | 16:55 |
| guitarzan | I think the idea of having the provider define behavior globally is interesting | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: it's the best compromise I could come up with | 16:56 |
| guitarzan | again, multiple backend makes that hard | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | guitarzan: so then HP for example could configure their cloud to allow delete parent vols | 16:56 |
| guitarzan | but it's going to make everything hard :) | 16:56 |
| DuncanT | but in order to actually make that work, some form of driver functionality expression is also needed | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | if they throw in LVM or something that doesn't support that then oops | 16:56 |
| DuncanT | Particularly for multi-backend | 16:56 |
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| DuncanT | I'd rather be smarter than 'ooops' if possible | 16:57 |
| guitarzan | I think folks are going to have to go lowest common denominator if they want multiple backends to work exactly the same | 16:57 |
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| jgriffith | guitarzan: agree,,, and I still stand by my viewpoint that the behavior should be the same | 16:57 |
| hemna | Do we even know how divergent the drivers are right now? | 16:57 |
| DuncanT | hemna: Yes | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | hemna: yes, and it's not horrid | 16:58 |
| hemna | should we document this in a wiki or something right now? | 16:58 |
| hemna | I know the FC drivers don't support copy volume to image/image to volume. | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | hemna: kmartin already did that IIRC | 16:58 |
| DuncanT | I think adding a way of getting better, more informative error messages out of drivers is a good thing | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: sure, I agreee with that | 16:58 |
| DuncanT | Even if in an ideal world / stable release they'd never get seen | 16:58 |
| thingee | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderSupportMatrix | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | alright, let's move on... there's no point in me wasting time on this any more | 16:59 |
| hemna | should the drivers that don't support features throw a warning/exception at startup? | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | Adding your requirement that a flag is needed to enable certain none-standard behaviours I've no objection to | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | everybody feel free to do what they like, I won't fight it any longer | 16:59 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: we're out of time :-( | 16:59 |
| hemna | doh | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | Yay! | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | :) | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 1 17:00:07 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-05-01-16.01.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-05-01-16.01.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-05-01-16.01.log.html | 17:00 |
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| med_ | heh. | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | that's why we have openstack-cinder :) | 17:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 17:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 1 17:03:54 2013 UTC. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 17:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 17:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | Hey, anyone here for the XenAPI meeting? | 17:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | talking to BobBall and matelakat we were going to move the meeting | 17:04 |
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| guitarzan | johnthetubaguy: where to? | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | #action johnthetubaguy to email the list about the proposed new time: Wednesday at 15:00 UTC | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | would that one work for you? | 17:07 |
| guitarzan | sure | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool, lets call it a day for this weeks meeting | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | my plan is to sift through all the blueprints we need to raise from the Summit sessions and things by then | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | well hopefully will have that done by the end of today, early tomorrow | 17:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | talk soon | 17:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 17:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:08 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 1 17:08:25 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:08 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-05-01-17.03.html | 17:08 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-05-01-17.03.txt | 17:08 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-05-01-17.03.log.html | 17:08 |
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| dosaboy | is there swift-dev meeting today? | 18:12 |
| notmyname | yes | 18:12 |
| notmyname | in 45 minues | 18:12 |
| dosaboy | gotcha ;) | 18:12 |
| dosaboy | i'm not UTC anymore | 18:13 |
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| notmyname | swift meeting time | 19:00 |
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| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 1 19:01:24 2013 UTC. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:01 |
| notmyname | hi all. welcome to our first meeting since the portland summit | 19:01 |
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| notmyname | I don't have a huge agenda this week, but I'd like to talk about 1) summit follow up 2) swift API and 3) blueprints | 19:02 |
| notmyname | sot to start with... | 19:02 |
| notmyname | #topic summit follow up | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit follow up (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:02 | |
| notmyname | How was the summit for you? what was good or bad? what would you like to see different in the next one? | 19:03 |
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| davidhadas | Need 2 days (or more ) next time | 19:03 |
| davidhadas | (instead of 1) | 19:03 |
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| creiht | I would have liked to see the discussion times more around actuall dev of swift rather than findings or showing off tools | 19:04 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: agreed, but I'm not sure that could have been predicted based on previous tech sessions submitted | 19:04 |
| swifterdarrell | ++ on more sessions for swift | 19:04 |
| creiht | if you want to discuss findings, or show off tools, then those should be done in the other sessions (like what hp did for their perf stuff) | 19:04 |
| davidhadas | notmyname: you askd about next time - this was no critic | 19:04 |
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| davidhadas | but the talk about what needs to be developed to benchmark swift was good | 19:05 |
| notmyname | creiht: good feedback. I'd like to see gholt talk about sssync at a summit ;-) | 19:05 |
| creiht | notmyname: well don't tell me that :) | 19:05 |
| davidhadas | I'd like to see gholt | 19:06 |
| davidhadas | :) | 19:06 |
| dfg | i'm looking at him right now- its not that cool | 19:06 |
| dfg | :) | 19:06 |
| clayg | :) | 19:06 |
| creiht | haha | 19:06 |
| davidhadas | dfg: The mistory man | 19:06 |
| dfg | he does wear a cape... | 19:07 |
| shri | this was my first openstack summit. Loved the sessions on swift. Would've loved a session on getting started with swift development | 19:07 |
| notmyname | I think we can try to get some more talks about swift code. how do you think that would look? | 19:07 |
| clayg | creiht: so two talks specifically that I *enjoyed* that fit into the "findings" bucket was KT & Seagate, I also really liked the unsession stuff about more dev... I hope next time we can just make more time for both | 19:07 |
| swifterdarrell | shri: notmyname: that'd be a great break-out session on a 2nd or 3rd day which was well-advertised the first day | 19:07 |
| notmyname | shri: glad you could come. we had one at the san diego summit be ran out of space in this one. maybe an unconference session on that would be good? | 19:07 |
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| davidhadas | Such talks about code shoudl be apart from the design meetings - not instead | 19:08 |
| creiht | clayg: I'm not saying they were bad talks, I'm just saying given how the format is they would be better suited for the other sessions | 19:08 |
| davidhadas | design meetings were very good - too short and too little | 19:08 |
| shri | notmyname: yeah.. that would be good | 19:08 |
| notmyname | I heard a suggestion for basic hackathon-style tracks at the summit. eg show up and you have a bugfix in master at the end of the day | 19:08 |
| torgomatic | the rooms need some whiteboards; it's hard to discuss when your only tool is a slide projector | 19:08 |
| creiht | Several people comminucated to me that the would have liked to see more design oriented sessions during the design part of the summit for swift | 19:09 |
| clayg | davidhadas: creiht: notmyname: in past summits, I've found the hallway track was often better at talking code just because of all the noise in the rooms? There'd be like 30 people... and sometimes it's hard to keep everyone on topic... | 19:09 |
| shri | i attended one session on getting started with openstack development, not swift development | 19:09 |
| notmyname | historically, we've had trouble with the design style sessions with swift. | 19:09 |
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| creiht | they are difficult all around (the other teams have the same issues) | 19:10 |
| davidhadas | clayg: agree - but.... its hard to get all the right pepole at the same time in the halllway | 19:10 |
| creiht | davidhadas: ++ | 19:10 |
| clarkb | shri: fwiw bootstrappign at the openstack level should be sufficient to get you going. we have intentionally made it so that moving across projects is easy to do | 19:10 |
| creiht | more so as the number of active contributors increases | 19:10 |
| shri | I see | 19:10 |
| litong | @notmyname, I think that the session that you gave on Swift update and what is next is always good and useful and serve a good purpose to level the field. | 19:11 |
| litong | +recognize Sam being the top contributor, that was very nice. | 19:11 |
| notmyname | litong: ya, the state of the project is fun. I enjoy it, and I'm glad you did. but that's completely separate from the tech tracks :-) | 19:12 |
| shri | also, i liked the swift sessions because there was lot of interaction and discussions. they weren't about a couple of speakers talking and rest of us simply consuming. | 19:12 |
| notmyname | so what I'm hearing is that we need more time and we need more design/code talks | 19:12 |
| notmyname | shri: +1 | 19:12 |
| clayg | notmyname: +1 | 19:13 |
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| davidhadas | +2 | 19:13 |
| swifterdarrell | yup | 19:13 |
| creiht | preference should be given to design/code talks durring the design part of the summit | 19:13 |
| swifterdarrell | and also to prioritize sessions for design/code if space is tight | 19:13 |
| torgomatic | notmyname: +1 | 19:13 |
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| shri | notmyname: +1 | 19:13 |
| clayg | hrmm... I'm definately *not* saying that design/code session should be a priority | 19:13 |
| notmyname | shri: FYI http://swiftstack.com/blog/2013/02/12/swift-for-new-contributors/ | 19:13 |
| swifterdarrell | it may be debatable, but it was said ;) | 19:14 |
| clayg | but if everyone else feels that way that should definately put that out there - I liked the sessions we had, and the unconference | 19:14 |
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| clayg | I'd like more time, so we can have more space for some of the stuff that happened in the unconference | 19:14 |
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| shri | notmyname: cool. Will go through this in more details. | 19:15 |
| clayg | notmyname: can you just go ahead and make everyone happy cause that would be great... | 19:15 |
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| swifterdarrell | ya, the ideal would be time enough for showing off cool tools and findings *and* actual code design discussions | 19:15 |
| notmyname | clayg: working on it. (we still haven't voted in a meeting for you) | 19:15 |
| adrian17od | I wasn't at this summit but weren't the sessions selected based on votes? | 19:15 |
| notmyname | adrian17od: no | 19:16 |
| notmyname | well, if you consider my input as the only vote... ;-) | 19:16 |
| adrian17od | If we want to prioritise more dev/design sessions that would mean leaving that system. | 19:16 |
| creiht | my only argument is that the tools and findings should be in the other talk tracks | 19:16 |
| notmyname | good feedback. thansk | 19:16 |
| creiht | adrian17od: the other tracs are voted on, then there are secret teams of people that select which talks make it | 19:17 |
| notmyname | ya, I think the other tracks were voted. the tech tracks (for all projects) are up to the respective PTL | 19:17 |
| adrian17od | I see. | 19:17 |
| notmyname | any other comments about the summit or input on changes? | 19:18 |
| notmyname | before we move on | 19:18 |
| davidhadas | well about the chocolates... | 19:18 |
| creiht | otherwise I do agree with clayg that the content of most of the discussions was good | 19:18 |
| notmyname | #topic swift API | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "swift API (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:19 | |
| clayg | we should have one! | 19:19 |
| notmyname | I'm sure there are strong feelings on this topic | 19:19 |
| clayg | meh | 19:20 |
| creiht | SOAP | 19:20 |
| notmyname | the current state is that we have a pretty good API. it's very stable. but there are a few warts, and the state of middleware is somewhat fuzzy | 19:20 |
| notmyname | ie, is middleware part of the api or not | 19:20 |
| swifterdarrell | can we just wait for the OpenStack API As A Service project? | 19:20 |
| creiht | fuzzy wuzzy was a middleware | 19:20 |
| notmyname | I'm not proposing that we decide this now | 19:20 |
| davidhadas | notmyname: this is a big issue | 19:20 |
| torgomatic | some is, some isn't? | 19:20 |
| notmyname | yes | 19:20 |
| davidhadas | torgomatic: which part is? | 19:21 |
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| swifterdarrell | I liked the distinction of API 1.1 being some incremental changes to core stuff (fixing the warts) | 19:21 |
| notmyname | indeed | 19:21 |
| swifterdarrell | That's probably something with broad support | 19:21 |
| swifterdarrell | anything regarding middleware is going to be more contentious | 19:21 |
| dfg | btw- before i forget I'm completely rewriting how bulk delete and expand archive are going to work. | 19:21 |
| notmyname | but overall, we need to first have a sense of what the api is before we can even figure out what 1.1 is | 19:22 |
| notmyname | dfg: oh goody | 19:22 |
| torgomatic | davidhadas: tempurl maybe? I dunno, I'm just throwing that idea out there | 19:22 |
| notmyname | dfg: I'll come back to you ;-) | 19:22 |
| clayg | but asside from what... quoting etags did we really identify anything that should be changed in v1.1? | 19:22 |
| notmyname | there are 2 APIs in swift: internal and external | 19:22 |
| dfg | ya- i'm not expecting anyone to really care, hopefully | 19:22 |
| creiht | there were quite a few things | 19:22 |
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| creiht | clayg: but I can't remember off the top of my head | 19:22 |
| davidhadas | We need order in the middleware - this is not a trivial issue. But we probably need to have mandatory middleware as a first filter which is actualy part of Core Swift | 19:23 |
| notmyname | the external api is what clients can use (defined [in part] at http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-object-storage/1.0/content/) | 19:23 |
| swifterdarrell | clayg: I don't remember the details but I felt like there were about 3 or 4 little things | 19:23 |
| notmyname | the docs site incidentally calls that the object storage 1.0 api spec | 19:23 |
| clayg | creiht: yeah i sorta remember something on the etherpad... but then a lot of stuff we couldn't agree... and then I don't know if there was a final list of like "purposed changes to v1.1" | 19:24 |
| notmyname | although it's certainly not something that we code to. it's more something that's written based on what's in the code | 19:24 |
| creiht | clayg: yeah I think the next step would be to take that and start on a blueprint | 19:24 |
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| notmyname | well, I think the first step is to make sure we have an answer to what swift 1.0 is | 19:24 |
| davidhadas | Q - do we treat the small changes from 1.0 to 1.1 as a API change that requires us to support both? | 19:25 |
| creiht | davidhadas: absolutely | 19:25 |
| clayg | notmyname: wow, so that page opens with auth v1.0 specification, and we can't even get x-storage-token deprecated properly! | 19:25 |
| davidhadas | creiht: than why do it? | 19:25 |
| creiht | backwards compatability? | 19:25 |
| creiht | clients are still going to be using v1.0 for quite some time | 19:25 |
| creiht | or why do the clean up? | 19:26 |
| davidhadas | creiht: but from now on to start supporting to versions - seems more pain than not doing any change | 19:26 |
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| creiht | sure there will be extra work | 19:26 |
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| creiht | but if nobody sees value in cleaning up the api, then there is an argument to be made for not doing it | 19:26 |
| clayg | davidhadas: I think part of the value comes from defining the layout and abstractions *needed* to support different versions - part of a pre-req for v2.0 | 19:26 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: ya, but it doesn't have to be hugely painful eg: if api_version > 1.0: etag = '"%s"' % etag | 19:27 |
| notmyname | clayg: yes | 19:27 |
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| notmyname | creiht: absolutely. no need to find extra work to do. we've got enough as-is | 19:27 |
| notmyname | (but I think an API cleanup is beneficial to us all and thing we should do it) | 19:28 |
| davidhadas | Ok - it all depends on the details - but I doubt if it makes sense - unless we gain something significant with it and if not - it should all be delayed to 2.0 | 19:28 |
| davidhadas | (or - better so - we ne dto find ways to add it without disrupting the clients and without getting info if ver == 1.0 | 19:28 |
| notmyname | I think the todo items are to 1) decide about middleware and 2) define what the 1.0 api is (based on the first answer) | 19:29 |
| notmyname | which comes down to, "who's going to do it?" | 19:30 |
| davidhadas | notmyname: can you detail "1"? | 19:30 |
| creiht | davidhadas: yeah I'm not fond of adding a lot of speghetti if code for different api versions | 19:30 |
| creiht | there are other ways to handle it | 19:30 |
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| notmyname | davidhadas: as an example, is the staticweb part of the official API? if a cluster doesn't use it, is it really a swift cluster? what about public containers? | 19:31 |
| davidhadas | creiht: yeh - either it is a disruptive change with real value (going to 2.0) or it is not - so keep the API and extend it - cleanup semms like neigher | 19:31 |
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| notmyname | (public containers is a difference in eg rackspace's swift product and what's in "vanilla swift" | 19:31 |
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| davidhadas | notmyname: so would this lead to code moving from middleware to core? | 19:32 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: no | 19:32 |
| clayg | well about the chocolates... | 19:32 |
| davidhadas | clayg: that too long... :) | 19:32 |
| clayg | I really don't want "is it implemented in middleware" to be a pre-req for "is it core" | 19:32 |
| notmyname | something written as middleware is an implementation detail. eg catch_errors is vital, but it's implemented as middleware | 19:32 |
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| clayg | if it's *easier* to add a feature in middleware that's where it should go | 19:32 |
| clayg | oh heh :) | 19:33 |
| notmyname | "core" to me is "in the source tree" | 19:33 |
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| notmyname | (which has implications for a "contrib" section, but I digress...) | 19:33 |
| notmyname | so how do we answer these questions? how do you want to do it? | 19:33 |
| davidhadas | my poimnt before is that middleware is a big problem as it always come before the core and we do not know how to "wrap it" with core code | 19:33 |
| davidhadas | E.g. | 19:33 |
| notmyname | a mailing list seems that it will invite too many cooks into the kitchen | 19:34 |
| creiht | Maybe we need source code amnesty to ensure a proper data democracy | 19:34 |
| notmyname | IRC is hard to get everyone together | 19:34 |
| adrian17od | Seems to me like the first job is to write up the API specification for 1.0 | 19:34 |
| notmyname | adrian17od: yes | 19:34 |
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| davidhadas | If we want to filter our ilegal headers (that middleware can send, but a client is not allowed to) we have no way to ensure that. | 19:34 |
| notmyname | we could have this dicussion on the openstack wiki | 19:34 |
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| adrian17od | The discussion needs to happen around a doc so the wiki sounds like a good place | 19:35 |
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| notmyname | anyone object to discussing the api definition on the openstack wiki? | 19:35 |
| notmyname | wait, shoudl we vote here? | 19:35 |
| notmyname | clayg: ? | 19:35 |
| * creiht sighs | 19:36 | |
| notmyname | creiht: not helpful. what's your concern? | 19:36 |
| davidhadas | I like the idea on working with Etherpad even when we are not in the same room | 19:36 |
| creiht | I just don't think you are going to get a lot of useful collaboration on a wiki | 19:36 |
| adrian17od | The alternative is gerrit? | 19:37 |
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| davidhadas | creiht: how about virtual design session(s) with Etherpad and IRC | 19:37 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: I like etherpad, but I don't like how you can't tell who said what even a day after the discussion (ie after people leave the page) | 19:37 |
| litong | why can't we treat the api specification doc just like any other patch. anyone care can voice with comments. | 19:38 |
| notmyname | and a virtual design session has the problem of scheduling | 19:38 |
| swifterdarrell | what does Etherpad give you that a wiki doesn't? real-time editing, lack of formatting, and a bunch of distracting colors? | 19:38 |
| notmyname | creiht: what woudl you prefer to a wiki page? | 19:38 |
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| creiht | nm | 19:38 |
| clayg | creiht: but.. but... you LEAD the api discussion at teh summit! | 19:39 |
| clayg | I'm all hoping you had the plan over here :'( | 19:39 |
| creiht | and then it got off in the weeds with specs and such | 19:39 |
| clayg | ahhh... | 19:39 |
| creiht | I just wanted to clean things up | 19:39 |
| davidhadas | swifterdarrell: a chance to get pepole attention for a while on a problem - in other words a chance to brainstorm | 19:39 |
| creiht | and there seems to not be a lot of political will for that | 19:39 |
| creiht | so it's notmyname's call | 19:39 |
| clayg | for the clean up? I think that is totally in the list of 2 things to be done? | 19:40 |
| clayg | oh... maybe i read that wrong | 19:40 |
| torgomatic | I dunno, a cleanup in core code plus a recrappification middleware sounds like a decent enough approach to me | 19:40 |
| notmyname | creiht: I think there is a strong desire to make things better. but I don't think we can do that responsibly in a global community of deployers and contributors without first defining what it is we are actually changing | 19:41 |
| creiht | notmyname: ok then go do that, then I'll see about changing stuff :) | 19:41 |
| clayg | I think in my mind I put "creiht | clayg: yeah I think the next step would be to take that and start on a blueprint" on my list | 19:41 |
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| swifterdarrell | davidhadas: IRC is a decent online place to have a real-time conversation and a wiki is a decent place to store formatted information multiple people can edit; I see Etherpad as a failure to attempt to combine those both? But that's just my personal opinion. | 19:41 |
| notmyname | davidhadas: would you object too strongly in a wiki doc? | 19:42 |
| creiht | clayg: well that *was* my next plan of action | 19:42 |
| davidhadas | notmyname: no objections | 19:42 |
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| clayg | notmyname: what about using that doc you linked as a starting point? | 19:42 |
| swifterdarrell | wiki + irc seems good to me; I mean your problem will be getting people to care and actively participate more that it'll be what tools to use | 19:43 |
| notmyname | I'll put together a starting doc on the openstack wiki and send an email when it's done | 19:43 |
| swifterdarrell | if you have people caring and participating, they'll use whatever tools work | 19:43 |
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| davidhadas | torgomatic: I learn a new word every day :) "recrappification" | 19:44 |
| creiht | lol | 19:44 |
| davidhadas | that is awsome | 19:44 |
| torgomatic | I make up a new word every day, so we'll get along great. :) | 19:44 |
| davidhadas | good | 19:44 |
| swifterdarrell | ...for when the initial crapification wasn't bad enough... | 19:44 |
| notmyname | ok, so moving on to 2 small things | 19:45 |
| notmyname | #topic blueprints | 19:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:45 | |
| notmyname | (for the record, I really don't think blueprints are all that great) | 19:45 |
| creiht | there are no small things left in swift :) | 19:45 |
| notmyname | blueprints are what we have to help let others know what's going on inside of swift | 19:46 |
| swifterdarrell | notmyname: I'll go on record as agreeing with that. | 19:46 |
| creiht | yeah we can vote on that! | 19:46 |
| *** vipul is now known as vipul|away | 19:46 | |
| notmyname | :-) | 19:46 |
| notmyname | so I'm asking you to use them. | 19:47 |
| notmyname | The goal is that you add one for stuff you are doing and then target it to havana. This allows people external to your org know what's going on and what to expect when. It also has the side benefit of promoting Swift (indirectly) by showing constant activity. | 19:47 |
| notmyname | so please use blueprints. at least with a short note saying "hey, I'm working on this" | 19:47 |
| notmyname | for example, dfg should make a blueprint about his bulk middleware refactoring | 19:48 |
| notmyname | :-) | 19:48 |
| briancline | yeah, I usually end up digging through the bug list because a lot of existing blueprints are pretty thin | 19:48 |
| notmyname | dfg: I told you I'd come back to you about that | 19:48 |
| briancline | and review.* | 19:48 |
| swifterdarrell | then you reference the bp in the commit message and it helps reviewers understand the context of why the whizzbang should be connected to the frombulator instead of the wackyjigg? | 19:48 |
| dfg | ya- i could do that i guess... | 19:48 |
| notmyname | dfg: thanks | 19:48 |
| creiht | I look forward to the recrapification blueprint | 19:48 |
| dfg | oh- you were being serious? | 19:48 |
| dfg | :) | 19:48 |
| creiht | lol | 19:48 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: I don't think there's one for the threadpool stuff | 19:49 |
| notmyname | #topic other | 19:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "other (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:49 | |
| torgomatic | notmyname: there sure isn't. I don't like blueprints since they lack both comments and notify-on-edit, but I can throw one up anyway | 19:50 |
| davidhadas | This is a good topic | 19:50 |
| notmyname | it's come up a few times in the past week, so I'll mention it here. If you want to stay involved in IRC conversations, IRC bouncers are a great thing. I recommend http://znc.in | 19:50 |
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| creiht | or a shell somewhere an irssi | 19:50 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: I completely agree re blueprints | 19:50 |
| clayg | irssi o/ | 19:50 |
| briancline | +1 for irssi in a tmux session | 19:50 |
| notmyname | anything else for anyone? | 19:51 |
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| clayg | notmyname: yeah can you ask in some sort of "openstacky" meeting how we can go about making blueprints useful? | 19:51 |
| creiht | there were some comments about that recently on the mailing list | 19:51 |
| clayg | like.. do other projects use them successfully? HOW? | 19:51 |
| clayg | creiht: notmyname is like my personal hacker news for the mailing list | 19:51 |
| clayg | he must not have upvoted that thread for me | 19:51 |
| notmyname | clayg: I'll ask around again | 19:52 |
| briancline | notmyname: not 100% swift but I'm curious what kind of effort there is currently behind moderating and pushing the ask.* site more | 19:52 |
| * clayg goes to ask how to use blueprints | 19:52 | |
| notmyname | reed: want to comment in here? | 19:53 |
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| * reed reading | 19:53 | |
| notmyname | reed: re ask.o.o | 19:53 |
| litong | @notmyname, I would like to ask about the two ctrl-C to end swift client process/threads. wondering how everybody feels about that. | 19:53 |
| notmyname | litong: let's take that to #openstack-swift | 19:53 |
| litong | k. | 19:54 |
| briancline | it seems like a terrific resource as more and more people start to use it, but I've noticed it could use some help with retagging some of the questions that come in, editing when someone pastes in code/config/output blocks without formatting it into a block, etc. | 19:54 |
| reed | briancline, ask.o.o needs more moderators | 19:54 |
| notmyname | reed: what about migrating answers content? | 19:54 |
| notmyname | reed: or auto-moderating ATCs for the project they've contributed to? | 19:54 |
| briancline | granted they're little things, but they make a huge difference when perusing for questions to chime in on | 19:54 |
| reed | notmyname, at the moment there is no concrete action item for that, it's very very hard to do | 19:54 |
| reed | notmyname, explain 'automoderating' | 19:55 |
| reed | oh, make them moderators? | 19:55 |
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| notmyname | reed: IIRC, I have about 1 karma on ask.o.o | 19:55 |
| notmyname | ya that | 19:55 |
| reed | I can make you a moderator right now | 19:55 |
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| reed | who else? | 19:55 |
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| reed | https://ask.openstack.org/about/ has some suggestions on what the questions and answers should look like | 19:56 |
| notmyname | reed: is it organized per project or across all of openstack? | 19:56 |
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| briancline | me too -- so far I haven't found enough yet that I can usefully chime in on, so I've no powers yet to make those kinds of small tweaks to help make it useful in other ways | 19:56 |
| briancline | in terms of karma | 19:56 |
| reed | it's a generic Q&A site for openstack, it has tags that you can export as RSS | 19:56 |
| reed | and it has email push capabilities: you can subscribe to 'interesting tags' and get email notifications of new questions tagged interesting | 19:57 |
| notmyname | reed: my first response would be people who have answered the launchpad questions in swift (we've had great response from swift devs for LP answers) | 19:57 |
| notmyname | any other quick questions in the last 2 minutes of our time? | 19:58 |
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| reed | I've looked into the 'how to import Q&A from LP' and I found the task very complex | 19:58 |
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| notmyname | thanks everyone for attending this week's meeting. see you in 2 weeks | 19:59 |
| reed | left me wondering if it makes sense to spend lots of resources to move content from there | 19:59 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 1 19:59:14 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-05-01-19.01.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-05-01-19.01.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2013/swift.2013-05-01-19.01.log.html | 19:59 |
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| shardy | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 1 20:00:10 2013 UTC. The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 20:00 |
| shardy | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| randallburt | hithere | 20:00 |
| SpamapS | o/ again :) | 20:00 |
| shardy | :) | 20:00 |
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| jpeeler | here | 20:00 |
| wirehead_ | Good afternoon/ evening / morning / night / teatime | 20:00 |
| zaneb | howdy | 20:00 |
| sdake | hi | 20:01 |
| therve | hi | 20:01 |
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| shardy | stevebaker, asalkeld? | 20:01 |
| asalkeld | hi | 20:01 |
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| kebray | hello | 20:01 |
| shardy | Ok, cool hi all | 20:02 |
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| shardy | #topic Review last week's actions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
| SpamapS | IIRC stevebaker is on holiday all week | 20:02 |
| shardy | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-04-24-20.00.html | 20:02 |
| shardy | SpamapS: thanks, forgot that | 20:02 |
| shardy | So there are two actions: | 20:03 |
| shardy | everyone to review havana BPs | 20:03 |
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| shardy | Well come to BP discussion in a minute, so perhaps we'll skip that :) | 20:03 |
| shardy | s/Well/We'll | 20:03 |
| shardy | someone to create workflow-library wiki page | 20:03 |
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| shardy | Did anyone do that? | 20:03 |
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| kebray | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Convection does this count? | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | no :( | 20:04 |
| harlowja | i have some pieces of it | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | whew | 20:04 |
| zaneb | I thought someone was supposed to do it ;) | 20:04 |
| harlowja | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredStateManagementDetails | 20:04 |
| kebray | If it's for the library… there is an ether pad started by Josh. | 20:04 |
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| kebray | Ah, yes! | 20:04 |
| kebray | Perfect harlowja | 20:04 |
| shardy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Convection | 20:04 |
| harlowja | it is slightly nova 'centric' but the general principles apply | 20:04 |
| shardy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredStateManagementDetails | 20:04 |
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| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredStateManagement | 20:04 |
| shardy | Ok, looks like we can all start looking at those, thanks harlowja and kebray | 20:05 |
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| harlowja | also that one, i have started putting some of the base into nova, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27869/ also | 20:05 |
| harlowja | at least pieces of it to get moving | 20:05 |
| harlowja | if we can fast-line the move to oslo then this could be put in there | 20:05 |
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| harlowja | then we can try to make some base objects that work for as many projects as possible | 20:06 |
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| shardy | harlowja: sounds good, perhaps we can all start looking at this over the next week | 20:06 |
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| harlowja | that'd be much appreciated | 20:06 |
| shardy | #action all to take a look at harlowja's wiki page and patch | 20:06 |
| harlowja | shardy there are also other workflow libraries that are interested to look at (at least the code/design) | 20:07 |
| harlowja | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NovaOrchestration/WorkflowEngines | 20:07 |
| harlowja | from previous work, none of them handle the distributed case, but good to get ideas from | 20:07 |
| shardy | harlowja: Ok, there's the wider investigation, and also to see if/how we can consume this stuff in Heat | 20:08 |
| shardy | Let's continue this on the ML or in #heat if that's Okay | 20:08 |
| harlowja | shardy agreed, many efforts happening at once :) | 20:08 |
| harlowja | kk | 20:08 |
| zaneb | tbh I see the distributed thing as the main issue | 20:08 |
| shardy | #topic Blueprint review for Havana, task assignment | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint review for Havana, task assignment (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:08 | |
| harlowja | zaneb agreed :) | 20:08 |
| zaneb | what we have already implemented in heat does the workflow part fine | 20:08 |
| zaneb | (for our purposes) | 20:08 |
| harlowja | zaneb sure, but the distributed+workflow parts are something all projects can benefit from i think | 20:09 |
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| asalkeld | yes, we need the locking | 20:09 |
| harlowja | *and liveness | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | (for scaling) | 20:09 |
| zaneb | my point was that a library that doesn't handle the locking doesn't buy us anything we couldn't write ourselves | 20:10 |
| zaneb | anyway, back to the topic :) | 20:10 |
| harlowja | well there a fundamental things that change depending on how the locking & livness is done, thats where it gets tricky | 20:10 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/havana | 20:10 |
| shardy | let's move on ;) | 20:10 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:11 |
| shardy | So I've been trying to beat the BP plan into shape | 20:11 |
| shardy | We have some new BPs related to the Providers proposal zaneb made | 20:11 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/provider-resource | 20:11 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/json-parameters | 20:12 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/stack-metadata | 20:12 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/attributes-schema | 20:12 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/resource-template | 20:12 |
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| shardy | zaneb: are youy planning to do this work, or are we looking for volunteers? | 20:12 |
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| zaneb | volunteers ;) | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | those look well glued together | 20:13 |
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| zaneb | I can help though | 20:13 |
| randallburt | I think we have some folks that can do those | 20:13 |
| randallburt | later this week or early next | 20:13 |
| zaneb | I don't have a firm plan for what I want to work on in Havana yet | 20:13 |
| shardy | Ok, so I've made the heat-api-dsl BP depend on these | 20:13 |
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| shardy | randallburt: if you can assign some names to these, that would be great, and work with zaneb to define the details of what has to be done | 20:14 |
| randallburt | shardy: not sure if its a hard dep, since we're still designing but I can see the point | 20:14 |
| randallburt | shardy: will do | 20:14 |
| zaneb | I'll start filling in the dependencies between those tasks | 20:14 |
| shardy | randallburt: it was more of a "lets do these first" kind of thing, but feel free to remove if you disagree ;) | 20:14 |
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| randallburt | shardy: kk. can we get an action for me so I won't forget? | 20:15 |
| randallburt | to assign folks, that is | 20:15 |
| SpamapS | less dependencies = more winning IMO :) | 20:15 |
| shardy | #action randallburt assign names to new BPs linked above | 20:15 |
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| randallburt | thanks | 20:15 |
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| shardy | SpamapS: point is I think we need to get this initial work done before we can sensibly proceed to the next step of the whole DSL discussion | 20:16 |
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| shardy | does anyone strongly disagree that we should do what Zane proposed, then see what else we're missing? | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | also if we have to put our name against a bp, can we try be good about setting the state of the bp | 20:16 |
| shardy | asalkeld: +100 | 20:16 |
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| * shardy has done a lot of LP clicking this week ;) | 20:17 | |
| asalkeld | so we can grab other bp if we have time | 20:17 |
| shardy | need to look into ttx's scripts | 20:17 |
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| * asalkeld don't like this idea of sticking names to bp so early | 20:17 | |
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| randallburt | asalkeld: +1 | 20:18 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Ok, that's fine, if we want to leave stuff unassigned, but with the high priority stuff I was under the impression people wanted to get started on it | 20:18 |
| SpamapS | I tend to think the assignee of the BP is its manager, not necessarily the one who will do all the work. | 20:19 |
| alexheneveld | shardy: i think zane's proposal is a good direction but i'd really like to see more in the blueprints to better understand some of the details | 20:19 |
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| shardy | alexheneveld: which is exactly why I'm proposing we get some people to take ownership of them and do that work | 20:19 |
| alexheneveld | quid pro quo is we'd like to help ofc :) | 20:19 |
| zaneb | I can maybe go through the blueprints and add details | 20:19 |
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| shardy | zaneb: that would be excellent :) | 20:20 |
| zaneb | shardy: feel free to add an action for me | 20:20 |
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| shardy | #action zaneb to add details to Provider BPs | 20:20 |
| shardy | Ok, anything else BP related? | 20:20 |
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| alexheneveld | +1 excellent zaneb | 20:21 |
| randallburt | shardy: I can't assign bps. do I need to send you a list of names? | 20:21 |
| shardy | randallburt: ping me and we'll work that out | 20:21 |
| shardy | #topic havana-1 milestone - need to target BPs and bugs | 20:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "havana-1 milestone - need to target BPs and bugs (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:22 | |
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| randallburt | will do | 20:22 |
| shardy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | shardy, when is h1? | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | thx | 20:22 |
| shardy | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-1 | 20:22 |
| shardy | asalkeld: 30th May | 20:22 |
| shardy | not much time :) | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | yea | 20:23 |
| shardy | So we need to figure out what bugs and BP's we can realistically target, since there's loads of bugs and not many BPs | 20:23 |
| asalkeld | not many bps? | 20:24 |
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| shardy | asalkeld: Only two are targetted to h1 | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | thats pretty normal I think | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | o, thought you meant in general | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | early on fix some bugs, reorganize things, etc, before the more intense BP work happens | 20:24 |
| SpamapS | BPs tend to span several milestones | 20:25 |
| zaneb | added a third :) | 20:25 |
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| shardy | SpamapS: sure, I just want to get things somewhat representative of what's actually happening | 20:25 |
| shardy | so I don't get in trouble at the release meetings ;) | 20:25 |
| shardy | #action everyone to target bp's likely to land in next 2-3 weeks to havana-1 | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | k | 20:26 |
| shardy | Also if there are bugs which need bumping to h-2, please do (e.g jpeeler you have a big backlog of VPC related stuff) | 20:26 |
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| jpeeler | yeah i'll fix it up | 20:27 |
| shardy | I just realized I missed the first agenda item, oops | 20:27 |
| shardy | let's do it now :) | 20:27 |
| shardy | #topic Stable Branch/update/maintenance policy | 20:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Stable Branch/update/maintenance policy (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:27 | |
| shardy | So this came from a discussion in #heat | 20:28 |
| shardy | regarding what master should work with, as we've previously done stuff like conditional imports to maintain compatibility with older openstack versions | 20:28 |
| asalkeld | so is the plan now to rely on stable branch? | 20:29 |
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| shardy | asalkeld: that's basically the question | 20:30 |
| SpamapS | So, I'm not sure that accurately describes the problem. | 20:30 |
| SpamapS | Whats at question is not maintaining backward compatibility with older openstack versions. | 20:30 |
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| SpamapS | We *must* do that | 20:30 |
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| asalkeld | really? | 20:30 |
| SpamapS | the issue is whether or not to depend on libraries that exist, but are not necessarily available on older platforms | 20:31 |
| SpamapS | What I take issue with is that we are treating the presence, or lack thereof, of say, quantumclient, as a signal that we should use quantum or not. | 20:31 |
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| shardy | SpamapS: we don't necessarily have to do that in master, that's what the stable branches are for | 20:31 |
| SpamapS | This is not a stable branch issue yet.... | 20:31 |
| zaneb | the issue is how do we allow operators to select optional built-in plugins | 20:32 |
| asalkeld | well we need to talk to older clients | 20:32 |
| SpamapS | I'm suggesting that if you can get heat, from master, you can get quantumclient. Even if you're not going to use it. | 20:32 |
| SpamapS | And this makes Heat more stable, as now it will be able to speak to quantum as soon as the catalog dictates that it do so. | 20:32 |
| asalkeld | so you want a config option to define the builtin catalog? | 20:33 |
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| SpamapS | zaneb: the catalog dictates what you should be using. | 20:34 |
| SpamapS | asalkeld: no, keystone tells us "we have a quantum endpoint" or not. | 20:34 |
| asalkeld | but still maybe the admin doen't want heat to use it | 20:35 |
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| zaneb | as I said the other day, I am +2 on using keystone endpoint list to figure it out | 20:35 |
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| shardy | zaneb: Ok, but that would still require e.g folsom users to install e.g the grizzly client libraries? | 20:36 |
| SpamapS | asalkeld: I'm not sure there is a scenario where an admin says "use that keystone, but ignore the endpoints available", but I acknowledge that there may be one. | 20:36 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: that sounds like an unusual case... they can always delete the plugin(s) | 20:36 |
| SpamapS | shardy: Why is it controversial to say "if you are installing havana's heat, you must also install havana-heat's dependencies" ? | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | just saying if we have a catalog idea, use it | 20:36 |
| therve | so, what's the value of conditionally import clients? | 20:37 |
| zaneb | shardy: client libraries are theoretically not versioned on the same cadence as core^W integrated projects | 20:37 |
| shardy | SpamapS: because we know that we have existing users who are (or at least were) using master Heat with older openstack versions | 20:37 |
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| therve | shardy, can they use newer client libraries though? | 20:37 |
| SpamapS | I am trying to understand the reason Heat wants to use the presence of the software as anything other than an indicator that you can use it. | 20:37 |
| shardy | therve: I guess that is true, it's something we've previously avoided though | 20:38 |
| asalkeld | the problem is accessing new features when they are not backed | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | shardy: and we promised to them that we'd never add new dependencies? | 20:38 |
| asalkeld | new client/old service | 20:38 |
| shardy | SpamapS: This is the point, we've not made any formal promises, or even really discussed it | 20:38 |
| SpamapS | shardy: by all rights, we are already misrepresenting things by listing quantumclient et. al in tools/pip-requires | 20:38 |
| shardy | until now ;) | 20:38 |
| zaneb | I hate pip-installing stuff over/around rpm packages, but I will live with it. What I don't want to do is make all these services show up as resource types even if you can't actually use them | 20:38 |
| shardy | zaneb: +1, and +1 | 20:39 |
| SpamapS | zaneb: right, but thats a problem if you have accidentally installed quantumclient.. isn't it? | 20:39 |
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| asalkeld | other way around | 20:39 |
| shardy | Sounds like the catalog suggestion is the solution to the second problem | 20:40 |
| zaneb | so keystone catalog solves second problem, at the expense of first problem which is annoying but not a big deal | 20:40 |
| shardy | SpamapS: well with your prosal everyone will always have to install quantumclient.. | 20:40 |
| shardy | proposal | 20:40 |
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| SpamapS | yes, they will, and so we should provide them means to turn off quantum in their configuration. We already have that means though, in the form of the keystone catalog of endpoints. | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | I think we need our own version of a catalog | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | user catalog, builtin catalog | 20:41 |
| zaneb | please, no more config options ;) | 20:41 |
| shardy | SpamapS: but our resource visibility isn't currently affected by the keystone catalog | 20:41 |
| SpamapS | Ok I don't really agree with the need for that, but I don't think it is harmful. | 20:41 |
| SpamapS | shardy: Actually thats something else I'm confused by. What is listing resources? Is that a client call I haven't run into yet? | 20:42 |
| zaneb | listing resources? | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | we need a resource-type-list | 20:42 |
| zaneb | there is an API call to get a list of resource types | 20:42 |
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| asalkeld | really | 20:42 |
| zaneb | in the ReST API | 20:42 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: added it myself ;) | 20:42 |
| asalkeld | well done | 20:43 |
| shardy | SpamapS: currently it's about a graceful failure when a resource is not backed by a service, but in the future we've been talking about a resource catalog, ref zane's Provider proposal | 20:43 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: stevebaker's idea iirc | 20:43 |
| alexheneveld | nice | 20:43 |
| SpamapS | Right, so I'm thinking the presence of client libraries is a really inconvenient and inaccurate way to predict whether or not the service is available. | 20:44 |
| therve | SpamapS, +1 | 20:44 |
| shardy | Ok, shall we follow up on this via SpamapS bug #1174005 | 20:44 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: next step is full schema - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/resource-properties-schema | 20:44 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1174005 in heat "swiftclient, quantumclient, and cinderclient, are not optional" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1174005 | 20:44 |
| SpamapS | There are 2 issues, and I think it will help if we can separate them. | 20:44 |
| SpamapS | right, the bug about the client libs not being optional is just one of maintenance and backward compatibility | 20:44 |
| SpamapS | the other one is I think unreported and talks about more accurately providing a list of available resources. | 20:45 |
| asalkeld | don't see why swiftclient is required | 20:45 |
| shardy | SpamapS: sounds like we need another BP ;) | 20:45 |
| SpamapS | crap | 20:45 |
| SpamapS | we do | 20:45 |
| * SpamapS will take it since I'm on about it | 20:45 | |
| shardy | #action SpamapS to raise BP re available resources | 20:46 |
| shardy | Ok, should we move on? | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | 15min | 20:46 |
| shardy | #topic Feature proposal deadline | 20:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Feature proposal deadline (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:46 | |
| SpamapS | asalkeld: don't see why swiftclient isn't required. The day you add a swift endpoint, your heat servers should be able to talk to it. I see no reason to hold back on a simple python library. :-P | 20:46 |
| SpamapS | anyway, yes lets move on :) | 20:46 |
| shardy | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-April/007823.html | 20:46 |
| shardy | What do people think about aligning with what nova are doing ref BP proposal deadlines? | 20:47 |
| harlowja | seems like a good idea | 20:47 |
| shardy | Maybe not such an issue for us being a smaller project, but seems like a good idea | 20:47 |
| zaneb | If anybody proposes a patch so large it will take 2 weeks to review, it should get -2 anyway imho | 20:47 |
| kebray | what do we gain from deciding that now? | 20:47 |
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| shardy | kebray: we get to chime in on that thread and say "we'll do that too", so people will know what the plan is | 20:48 |
| zaneb | small patches, incremental changes, this issue will never come up | 20:48 |
| randallburt | we gain you not making me scrable two weeks before ff kebray ;) | 20:48 |
| shardy | zaneb: +1000 ;) | 20:48 |
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| kebray | :-) ok ok | 20:48 |
| shardy | Ok, sounds like most are agreed then, lets go to open disucussion for the last 10mins? | 20:49 |
| shardy | #topic Open discussion | 20:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:49 | |
| SpamapS | reason to do BP proposal deadlines is also just to keep the work focused on specs early in the cycle, so dev time happens well before FF. | 20:49 |
| asalkeld | how about "if you propose a feature close to freaze, we might not merge" | 20:49 |
| randallburt | so, its fairly insignificant atm, but can I get eyes on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27934/? | 20:50 |
| wirehead_ | That's almost common-sense. | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | depending on ... stuff | 20:50 |
| shardy | asalkeld: this is basically just quantifying/documenting that | 20:50 |
| zaneb | randallburt: mixes spaces and tabs, -1 ;) | 20:50 |
| randallburt | and sorry, didn't mean to publish that one, but based on convo's yesterday, that's how we want to start evolving hot | 20:51 |
| randallburt | zaneb: yikes! sorry about that. | 20:51 |
| randallburt | will fix | 20:51 |
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| asalkeld | I got not found | 20:51 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: remove the ? | 20:51 |
| shardy | randallburt: thanks for posting, I had a quick look, will post comments later | 20:51 |
| randallburt | asalkeld: might have forgotten to add you | 20:51 |
| asalkeld | got it now - "?" | 20:52 |
| shardy | I think refining the syntax through gerrit will be better than etherpad etc | 20:52 |
| alexheneveld | randallburt: great starting this | 20:52 |
| randallburt | thanks | 20:52 |
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| randallburt | I'm still under other commitments for a few more days but hope to have more drafts soon-ish | 20:52 |
| randallburt | and with consistent spacing to boot. ;) | 20:52 |
| shardy | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/27934/ | 20:53 |
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| tspatzier | randallburt: I had a quick look and will also provide comments soon | 20:53 |
| * kebray is working diligently to free randallburt's schedule. | 20:53 | |
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| asalkeld | randallburt, interesting part is how config/userdata gets into the instance | 20:53 |
| randallburt | asalkeld: agreed. starting small, though ;) | 20:53 |
| asalkeld | yip | 20:54 |
| asalkeld | 5 min left | 20:54 |
| shardy | anything else? | 20:54 |
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| harlowja | join my orchestration meeting tommorow! | 20:54 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:54 |
| asalkeld | time? | 20:54 |
| Changbin | when is the time? | 20:54 |
| harlowja | 2000UTC, taking over the previous sandy orchestration meeting | 20:54 |
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| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Orchestration_team_meeting | 20:55 |
| Changbin | cool | 20:55 |
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| shardy | harlowja: will try to make it :) | 20:55 |
| harlowja | cool | 20:55 |
| harlowja | to many meetings to go to :-P | 20:55 |
| shardy | anything else from anyone? | 20:56 |
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| shardy | Ok, thanks all | 20:56 |
| shardy | #endmeeting | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 20:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 1 20:56:37 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-05-01-20.00.html | 20:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-05-01-20.00.txt | 20:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-05-01-20.00.log.html | 20:56 |
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