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| hartsocks | Hello everyone. Who's in the room for the VMwareAPI meeting? | 01:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| hartsocks | irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#startmeeting VMwareAPI | 01:03 |
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| hartsocks | Hello and welcome to the first meeting of the VMwareAPI subteam. I chose this time on short notice so I am very glad for whomever could attend. | 01:04 |
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| hartsocks | This sub-team is dedicated to creating better support for the Nova compute driver for vSphere but I also want to hold the door open to helping launch other projects that might find additional uses for various VMwareAPI inside OpenStack. | 01:06 |
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| hartsocks | We wanted to make sure we kicked off a meeting this week before Havana-1 was too close. We will have these weekly through Havana release. | 01:07 |
| hartsocks | #topic Grizzly Bug Triage | 01:08 |
| hartsocks | Before we start in on Havana though, let's see if anyone has anything to say about open bugs in Grizzly. | 01:08 |
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| hartsocks | Okay. Since I seem to be talking to an empty room. I'll just record a few things here. | 01:13 |
| hartsocks | Our team at VMware is ramping up and we are using https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=vmware to look for bugs and contributions to make. | 01:14 |
| hartsocks | I'll be delegating some of these to our internal team as they come up to speed. | 01:14 |
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| hartsocks | I'm initially assigning myself to bugs that I think are high priority. So if you see something not assigned at all, we're either unaware of it or we didn't think it was that important. | 01:16 |
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| hartsocks | #topic Havana Blueprint Discussion & Priority ordering | 01:20 |
| hartsocks | Can we start using vmware or VMware in the names of all blueprints dealing with VMware API integrations. This should include vSphere or any thing like vSAN or other "v" tools that might be useful. | 01:21 |
| hartsocks | Just in case someone snuck in the room with me… any comments here? (otherwise I'll just tick off some notes for the record) | 01:22 |
| Swaminathan | VMware should work | 01:24 |
| hartsocks | Agreed. | 01:25 |
| hartsocks | I have identified 5 blueprints associated with VMware... | 01:27 |
| hartsocks | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova?searchtext=vmware | 01:27 |
| hartsocks | These are easy enough to spot. | 01:27 |
| hartsocks | You'll see 4 there. | 01:27 |
| hartsocks | But there's a 5th | 01:27 |
| hartsocks | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/fc-support-for-vcenter-driver | 01:27 |
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| hartsocks | if you search vCenter you find more... | 01:28 |
| hartsocks | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/accurate-capacity-of-clusters-for-scheduler | 01:28 |
| hartsocks | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/deploy-vcenter-templates-from-vmware-nova-driver | 01:29 |
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| hartsocks | … and for the record I'll list out the others ... | 01:30 |
| hartsocks | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/multiple-clusters-managed-by-one-service | 01:30 |
| hartsocks | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/esx-resource-pools-as-compute-nodes | 01:30 |
| hartsocks | so … that's all I've spotted. | 01:31 |
| hartsocks | Does anyone have comments on these? | 01:31 |
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| hartsocks | I am concerned about the number of blueprints, and the number of actual contributors. I would like to have some clarity on time-lines as well. It would be nice to be able to coordinate efforts. | 01:36 |
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| hartsocks | I think https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/multiple-clusters-managed-by-one-service is our highest priority blueprint to iron out. | 01:42 |
| hartsocks | Can anyone present talk about this? | 01:42 |
| hartsocks | Hey… I know I'm not in the room alone. One of you made the mistake of talking to me. :-p | 01:44 |
| hartsocks | #topic TestCoverage | 01:45 |
| hartsocks | Specifically for the VCDriver… our internal team wants to see this get to 80% but it's pretty low now... | 01:46 |
| hartsocks | If anyone can help or give feedback on this topic it's appreciated. | 01:47 |
| hartsocks | In particular I'm trying to figure out how to write a test for an interaction between the VMwareVCDriver and the scheduler filters. | 01:49 |
| hartsocks | That kind of interaction is hard to model. | 01:49 |
| hartsocks | #topic Regular Meeting time? | 01:51 |
| hartsocks | I chose this time because it was convenient to our Palo Alto team. I also hoped to catch some of our colleagues in Australia and China. | 01:52 |
| hartsocks | I was also on short notice… so… I'll announce the next meeting time now and on the list. | 01:52 |
| hartsocks | http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20130515T1700 | 01:52 |
| hartsocks | How is this? | 01:53 |
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| hartsocks | Well, we didn't accomplish much in this "meeting" | 01:59 |
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| hartsocks | we did manage to fill the channel with some information and I'll be able to setup for our next meeting. | 01:59 |
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| hartsocks | This will be May 15th at 10:00 am in San Francisco … or 1700 UTC if you prefer. | 02:00 |
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| hartsocks | Thank you and good night. | 02:00 |
| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 02:01 |
| hartsocks | Okay, srsly… did you leave MeetBot? | 02:02 |
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| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 02:04 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting | 02:06 |
| openstack | hartsocks: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 02:06 |
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| hartsocks | I've made a huge mistake. | 02:08 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting honeybooboo | 02:15 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 9 02:15:48 2013 UTC. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 02:15 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 02:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: honeybooboo)" | 02:15 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'honeybooboo' | 02:15 |
| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 02:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 02:16 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 9 02:16:01 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 02:16 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/honeybooboo/2013/honeybooboo.2013-05-09-02.15.html | 02:16 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/honeybooboo/2013/honeybooboo.2013-05-09-02.15.txt | 02:16 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/honeybooboo/2013/honeybooboo.2013-05-09-02.15.log.html | 02:16 |
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| sdague | who's around for the qa meeting? | 17:02 |
| afazekas | hi | 17:02 |
| mlavalle | I am | 17:02 |
| psedlak | hi | 17:03 |
| ravikumar_hp | hi | 17:03 |
| malini | hi | 17:03 |
| dwalleck | here | 17:03 |
| sdague | #startmeeting qa | 17:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 9 17:03:29 2013 UTC. The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:03 |
| sdague | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting#Proposed_Agenda_for_May_9_2013_meeting | 17:04 |
| sdague | ok, proposed agenda for today, lets get rolling | 17:04 |
| sdague | #topic Blueprint check in for everyone with H1 blueprints | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint check in for everyone with H1 blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:04 | |
| sdague | #link https://launchpad.net/tempest/+milestone/havana-1 | 17:04 |
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| sdague | so we have a few of those blueprints with a status of Unknown, we're half way through H1, anyone have updates to share? | 17:05 |
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| sdague | guess not :) | 17:06 |
| ravikumar_hp | out of 15 , 2 blueprints are already implemented | 17:06 |
| sdague | the directory restructure bits are underway | 17:06 |
| sdague | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:bp/tempest-repo-restructure,n,z | 17:07 |
| sdague | would appreciate some reviews so we can keep those moving | 17:07 |
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| ravikumar_hp | sdague: I proposed some changes. can you address that? | 17:07 |
| sdague | ravikumar_hp: proposed where? | 17:07 |
| ravikumar_hp | as review for patch 3/4 | 17:07 |
| ravikumar_hp | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28453/ | 17:08 |
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| sdague | ok, so scenario tests may be part of the gate | 17:08 |
| sdague | honestly, right now, except for the stress directory, we're not kicking anything out of the gate by default | 17:09 |
| sdague | this is about making what we have in tree already clearer | 17:09 |
| sdague | so it's easier for people to extend and contribute to | 17:09 |
| sdague | it's also subject to evolution over time, but we needed a starting place | 17:09 |
| afazekas | I wonder can we extend the stress tests to collect performance data ? | 17:10 |
| sdague | afazekas: probably | 17:10 |
| sdague | that would be a good exercise | 17:10 |
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| sdague | ok, but the series needs at least another +2 to move it forward, so that would be appreciated if people are good with it | 17:11 |
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| afazekas | Probably I can add some system tap scripts to the tools/ folder for tracing same kernel event , for example for cpu usage accounting | 17:11 |
| sdague | any other blueprint updates from the list? | 17:11 |
| sdague | otherwise I'll jump to next topic | 17:11 |
| ravikumar_hp | ok | 17:11 |
| sdague | #topic Obsoleting blueprints in new/unknown with no series nomination | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Obsoleting blueprints in new/unknown with no series nomination (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:12 | |
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| sdague | ok, so we said that we'd clean up the blueprints, and drop everything that people didn't series nominate (with a milestone) | 17:12 |
| sdague | I'm going to hold folks to that tomorrow | 17:12 |
| sdague | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest is the whole list, I expect it to shrink a bunch | 17:13 |
| sdague | so if there is a blueprint you are actually going to champion, please propose for a havana milestone | 17:13 |
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| sdague | there are also way too many Quantum blueprints in there, do we have a volunteer to consolodate them a little? | 17:14 |
| mlavalle | sdague: I can do that | 17:14 |
| sdague | mlavalle: thank you! | 17:14 |
| sdague | #action mlavalle to consolidate tempest blueprints | 17:15 |
| sdague | #action mlavalle to consolidate tempest quantum blueprints | 17:15 |
| sdague | mlavalle: ping me in -qa if there is anything you need to get that done | 17:15 |
| mlavalle | sdague: ok | 17:15 |
| sdague | last scheduled topic | 17:16 |
| sdague | #topic Critical reviews tied to blueprints | 17:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical reviews tied to blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:16 | |
| sdague | now is fair game for any reviews you want to pimp that are tied to a blueprint :) | 17:16 |
| sdague | or a bug | 17:16 |
| davidkranz | stress test add/remove | 17:16 |
| sdague | davidkranz: cool, url? | 17:16 |
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| davidkranz | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28554/ | 17:17 |
| davidkranz | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28553/ | 17:17 |
| sdague | also can we get a blueprint for it? just to help us keep track of things. As one of our goals out of summit was to be more organized :) | 17:17 |
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| davidkranz | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/stress-tests | 17:17 |
| afazekas | 'There may be cases where multiple actions interact with each other' | 17:17 |
| sdague | sweet | 17:17 |
| afazekas | davidkranz: how the action will be able to interact with each other ? | 17:18 |
| sdague | davidkranz: if you put bp:stress-tests in the commit messages, they'll auto link back to that as well. Useful for keeping track | 17:18 |
| sdague | I'll take a look at the stress tests again this afternoon | 17:18 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Thx | 17:18 |
| sdague | any others from folks? | 17:18 |
| sdague | ok, we'll assume not | 17:19 |
| davidkranz | afazekas: I don't have a detailed scenario. | 17:19 |
| sdague | #topic open discussion | 17:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:19 | |
| davidkranz | afazekas: The point was just that when the killing starts, the test is already complete. | 17:19 |
| psedlak | are there any rules for contributing or backporting to tempest/stable-*? | 17:20 |
| sdague | psedlak: my feeling is that we should be the same as other projects | 17:20 |
| sdague | so | 17:20 |
| sdague | 1) it needs a bug | 17:20 |
| sdague | 2) it needs to be fixed in master first | 17:20 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Gotta go again | 17:20 |
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| sdague | 3) the stable patch should be a cherry pick of master | 17:21 |
| sdague | we are definitely only fixing bugs in stable, not adding new test cases | 17:21 |
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| psedlak | sdague: so it's not possible to get new test cases covering some stable feature added to master and backported to stable? | 17:22 |
| sdague | I don't think so, as it would have implications on the gate | 17:22 |
| sdague | I think we can take it as a case by case basis | 17:22 |
| sdague | but my instinct would be not to do that | 17:23 |
| psedlak | sdague: what kind of 'implications'? | 17:23 |
| sdague | we are changing the criteria for the stable gate | 17:23 |
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| afazekas | is jaypipes here ? | 17:23 |
| psedlak | sdague: like not covering thinks that are actually already in use/production ... that should not break things much/at all ... | 17:24 |
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| sdague | psedlak: it's always fair to propose a change like that, and see what folks think | 17:24 |
| sdague | honestly, until recently there wasn't any backport activity to tempest | 17:24 |
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| sdague | so it's sort of a new problem for us to figure out as we go | 17:24 |
| sdague | definitely needs to be artifact tracked though | 17:25 |
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| maurosr | I have one point/question to you guys | 17:25 |
| maurosr | sdague and guys: cyeoh and I were talking how we're going to test nova-api-v3 in tempest during our port process to v3 tree... there are other projects with 2 apis right? how is the process to test those cases? | 17:25 |
| psedlak | sdague: ok, thanks | 17:25 |
| afazekas | sdague: I am planing to backport tests to the folsom and grizzly branches | 17:25 |
| sdague | maurosr: we just have both versions in tree | 17:25 |
| sdague | afazekas: folsom? really? | 17:26 |
| afazekas | yes :) | 17:26 |
| sdague | ok :) | 17:26 |
| sdague | well lets start with some detailed bugs | 17:26 |
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| maurosr | sdague: so no problem duplicating the number of tests then? | 17:26 |
| sdague | maurosr: for now, no. but we're going to need to get a little stricter on what we are accepting in the gate | 17:27 |
| sdague | because we're at 45m right now | 17:27 |
| sdague | so it may be that not all of them get run in the gate, and we go to periodic runs | 17:27 |
| sdague | especially for experimental APIs | 17:27 |
| maurosr | right, make sense | 17:28 |
| maurosr | sdague: do I need to write a bp about it? | 17:28 |
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| sdague | for nova v3 tests? yes please | 17:28 |
| sdague | it helps keep us organized | 17:28 |
| maurosr | ok, thanks | 17:28 |
| sdague | other discussion topics? | 17:29 |
| sdague | going once... | 17:29 |
| afazekas | We should document somehow the existing test cases | 17:29 |
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| sdague | afazekas: sure, can you explain more what you mean? | 17:30 |
| afazekas | For new camers it is difficult to see what is not tested by tempest | 17:30 |
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| sdague | do you have a suggestion about how we could do that well? | 17:31 |
| afazekas | The RTFS is not a good answer for everyone | 17:31 |
| sdague | I definitely agree with you, I've just not come up with a good idea there | 17:31 |
| afazekas | sdague: I think we should use the wiki or an rst files in the repository | 17:31 |
| sdague | rst file in the repo sounds like a good idea, then when people make commits they could take stuff off the list | 17:32 |
| afazekas | I do not have exect plans, may be we should discuss it on the next meeting | 17:32 |
| sdague | afazekas: sure | 17:32 |
| sdague | you want to take an action to come up with a proposal to discuss for the next meeting? | 17:32 |
| afazekas | sdague: cool | 17:32 |
| sdague | or we can do it on the mailing list | 17:32 |
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| sdague | I think it's a good goal | 17:32 |
| afazekas | We should start in the ML | 17:33 |
| ravikumar_hp | yes | 17:33 |
| sdague | ok, lets do that. I'll give you the todo to start the thread | 17:33 |
| dwalleck | +1 | 17:33 |
| sdague | #action afazekas to start mailing list thread on documenting test cases we need for new contributors | 17:33 |
| ravikumar_hp | as routine - Email on Thursday after this meeting ,and due by Wednesday | 17:33 |
| sdague | any other topics? | 17:34 |
| sdague | going once... | 17:34 |
| sdague | going twice... | 17:35 |
| sdague | ok, lets call it | 17:35 |
| sdague | #endmeeting | 17:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 17:35 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 9 17:35:17 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:35 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-05-09-17.03.html | 17:35 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-05-09-17.03.txt | 17:35 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-05-09-17.03.log.html | 17:35 |
| sdague | thanks folks | 17:35 |
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| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 9 18:00:04 2013 UTC. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:00 |
| bdpayne | good morning / afternoon / evening to OSSG | 18:00 |
| hyakuhei | Hey bdpayne | 18:00 |
| bdpayne | let's get started with a role call | 18:00 |
| bdpayne | Bryan from Nebula is here | 18:00 |
| bpb | Hi bdpayne | 18:01 |
| hyakuhei | Rob from HP here. | 18:01 |
| bpb | Bruce from APL | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne | anyone else here for the OSSG meeting? | 18:02 |
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| chair6 | Jamie from HP | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | well, hi everyone | 18:02 |
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| bdpayne | thanks for attending | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | let's get started | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | anyone have an item to put on the agenda? | 18:03 |
| hyakuhei | Nothing new | 18:03 |
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| noslzzp | here.. | 18:04 |
| bpb | How about the pros and cons of a centralized message security key server - | 18:04 |
| pentae | Heath here from HP also | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | ok, I'd like to discuss the documentation sprint, open security tickets, and get updates on some ongoing projects (volume encryption, key manager, rpc security) | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | bob sounds good, we'll add that too | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | that's bpb | 18:05 |
| bpb | yes | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | #topic documentation sprint update | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "documentation sprint update (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:05 | |
| bdpayne | Just a quick update on the doc sprint | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | looks like we are locked in for June 24-28 | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | will be happening in Maryland | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | I'm working to finalize the attendee list this week | 18:06 |
| hyakuhei | Sounds good | 18:06 |
| noslzzp | Yep. | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | b/c it will be time for people to arrange travel shortly | 18:07 |
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| bdpayne | if you'd like to be involved and are not already chatting with me, please drop me an email | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | any questions about the doc sprint? | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | excellent, I'll move ahead | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | #topic open security tickets | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open security tickets (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:08 | |
| bdpayne | https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack/+bugs?field.tag=security | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | that link is a useful one | 18:08 |
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| bdpayne | if you're on the openstack-security mailing list, you'll be seeing chatter on some of these too | 18:08 |
| hyakuhei | There's only 19 | 18:08 |
| hyakuhei | A few of which are due to be closed off. | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | yep | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | this is a great place for people to contribute to the discussion | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | if you'd like to do some security reviews, etc | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | so I just wanted to call it out | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | #topic ongoing projects | 18:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ongoing projects (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:10 | |
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| hyakuhei | I don't suppose eric is lurking here somewhere? | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | could we get some updates on volume encryption, key management, and the roc security discussions? | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | if you're involved in any of the above, please just chime in | 18:10 |
| hyakuhei | I heckle a little on the first two | 18:11 |
| rellerreller | Volume encryption is progressing | 18:11 |
| rellerreller | We are still shooting for Havana-1. We are deciding on the interface for the key manager. | 18:12 |
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| rellerreller | Our first release will use a stubbed out KM for POC purposes. Then we plan to integrate with barbican when they have a working prototype. | 18:12 |
| hyakuhei | I think that's really exciting work. Do you have a documented set of assurance requirements that you're meeting? | 18:12 |
| rellerreller | No, but you can email me more about what you are looking for. | 18:13 |
| rellerreller | I think the barbican/KM team is looking to have something by Havana-3 | 18:13 |
| hyakuhei | i.e protect disks if they're physicaly taken away from the DC etc? I ask because I'm already getting questions from customers about this stuff and while I can tell them abit about what you're doing it'd be good to have a better picture | 18:13 |
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| hyakuhei | rellerreller: ping me your email and I'll follow-up | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | I'd be interested in that too | 18:14 |
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| rellerreller | OK, I understand what you mean. We can get in contact with you to see if we can get you something. | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | perhaps it could just be done on the openstack-security list? | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | or at least loop me in ;-) | 18:14 |
| rellerreller | I think that would be ok. | 18:14 |
| rellerreller | Will do | 18:15 |
| hyakuhei | Sure | 18:15 |
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| bdpayne | great, so can anyone speak to the rpc discussions ? | 18:16 |
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| hyakuhei | I've not been involved in that for the last week. I've still got a bunch of concerns. I was hoping Eric might be here. | 18:17 |
| bpb | The immediate need for secure RPC lends itself to a customized local key manager, but the design could include barbican later. Since the keys are short lived, just curious how folks feel if this make sense? | 18:17 |
| hyakuhei | Ok, lets see if we can get some discussion of the RPC stuff on openstack-security ML | 18:17 |
| hyakuhei | bpb: define short lived? | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | bob can you elaborate? | 18:18 |
| bpb | Short lived meaning maybe a few hours? point of discussion | 18:18 |
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| bdpayne | (sorry, my client keeps autocorrecting bpb and bob) | 18:18 |
| bpb | There's an opportunity to build an interface for barbican, but the use case needs to make sense. | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | bpb can give some context about how these keys are being used? | 18:19 |
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| hyakuhei | I don't think you can because that's not been worked out yet | 18:19 |
| bpb | There are separate keys used for the RPC authentication (each direction) and optional encryption (each direction) | 18:20 |
| hyakuhei | The CMS proposal and the two-key AES symettric are both on the table | 18:20 |
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| bdpayne | got it | 18:20 |
| hyakuhei | both have (I think) quite different key requirements | 18:21 |
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| bdpayne | that email thread has scared me as I haven't had the time to keep up with it so now I have a pretty big backlog of reading to do | 18:21 |
| hyakuhei | both of which are largely invalidated without some sort of host attestation | 18:21 |
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| hyakuhei | Yeah it's pretty horrible | 18:21 |
| bpb | I think it's different also, and it makes sense from efficiency persective to have these separate | 18:21 |
| hyakuhei | To have what separate bpb ? | 18:22 |
| bpb | Separate key managers | 18:22 |
| hyakuhei | Sure, we're all about choice after all | 18:22 |
| bpb | So we need to consider some use cases to support different types of key managers I think | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | perhaps we also need to lay down what we are and are not trying to achieve with the rpc security? | 18:24 |
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| hyakuhei | yarp | 18:24 |
| bpb | Characterizing the threats would be a good start | 18:24 |
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| hyakuhei | That sounds like an action to me | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | #action guide the rpc discussion with some actual threat models | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | very well then | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | anything else for today? | 18:26 |
| randy_perryman | :q | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | well, thanks for stopping by | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | have a great day everyone | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 18:27 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 9 18:27:52 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:27 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-05-09-18.00.html | 18:27 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-05-09-18.00.txt | 18:27 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-05-09-18.00.log.html | 18:27 |
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| simo | bdpayne: sorry, didn;t know there was OSSG security meeting today, or I could have chimed in | 19:00 |
| simo | bdpayne: I guess I'll subscribe to openstack-security and contribute there where I can | 19:00 |
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| harlowja | #startmeeting state-management-goodness | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 9 20:00:44 2013 UTC. The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management-goodness)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'state_management_goodness' | 20:00 |
| harlowja | howdy everyone! | 20:00 |
| changbl | hello~ | 20:01 |
| harlowja | anyone interesting in state management stuff (previously orchestration) let me know | 20:01 |
| harlowja | *rollcount | 20:01 |
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| harlowja | *role count i mean, ha | 20:01 |
| hemna | sup | 20:01 |
| harlowja | so today i might have some what of an agenda :) | 20:02 |
| adrian_otto | hi | 20:02 |
| harlowja | howdy | 20:02 |
| esheffield | hello | 20:02 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StateManagement#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 20:02 |
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| * alaski lurks | 20:03 | |
| harlowja | so i was thinking about how to better define what i and others are trying to do, does that seem like it would help others :) | 20:03 |
| * sandywalsh stalks alaski | 20:03 | |
| harlowja | since there are many wikis, and not everyone gets the time to read them, so a TLDR might be useful | 20:04 |
| harlowja | then we can talk about some of the primitives that i put up, some of the placement of this 'taskflow' library | 20:04 |
| harlowja | and discuss on some of the ML topics that were brought up regarding usage, core people support and such | 20:05 |
| harlowja | and then anything else people want to talk about | 20:05 |
| harlowja | sound good? | 20:05 |
| changbl | ok | 20:05 |
| harlowja | #topic summary | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summary (Meeting topic: state-management-goodness)" | 20:05 | |
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| harlowja | so the TLDR version that i have sorta been thinking about is…. | 20:06 |
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| harlowja | basically alot of actions that occur in various openstack projects can be simplified into a set of actions on resources (virtual or real) and states of those resources, such things could be called workflows ontop of said resources to fullfill said action | 20:07 |
| maoy | hola | 20:07 |
| maoy | i thought we liked "taskflow" instead of workflow from last week. :) anyway. keeping going harlowja~ | 20:08 |
| harlowja | sorry, just giving an overview TLDR of my whole grand vision thingy :-P | 20:09 |
| harlowja | thx | 20:09 |
| harlowja | due to the evolutionary development process that openstack has gone through there hasn't be a strong focus on this simplification into actions and states, just due to the organic growth of the different openstack core projects, the underlying code is there to do most of the actions and states but the simplification into actions and states hasn't really occured, which is nothing to be ashamed of | 20:09 |
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| harlowja | so my idear was to move toward said simplification, which is starting to occur for example with nova conductor work, but instead of just moving code around also rethink some of the primitives that are needed to structure these actions and states into a model that when simplified allows for advanced things to occur on said actions and states | 20:11 |
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| harlowja | taskflow, at least from what i think is the foundation of said work | 20:11 |
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| harlowja | so thats my TLDR summary, haha | 20:11 |
| harlowja | *i hope that made it a little more understandable | 20:12 |
| harlowja | maoy and changbl have done similar work i think in there previous at&t research (which was neat) | 20:12 |
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| changbl | which project are we gonna start with? Nova, Oslo, or Heat? | 20:13 |
| harlowja | so thats a very interesting question | 20:13 |
| hemna | Do you have a BP on how you are going to go about simplifying things? | 20:13 |
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| harlowja | the amount of info doesn't really fit in one BP :) | 20:14 |
| hemna | We in Cinder are interested in state management as well and are looking at a "state machine/object" as well | 20:14 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredStateManagement is sorta my entry point into this | 20:14 |
| harlowja | hemna i think alot of core projects want this, or at least want to get to something like this | 20:14 |
| adrian_otto | I edited that yesterday to add a link to the primitives document in the bottom section | 20:14 |
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| harlowja | adrian_otto thanks | 20:15 |
| adrian_otto | hemna: have you seen that yet? | 20:15 |
| hemna | not yet | 20:15 |
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| hemna | thanks for the link | 20:15 |
| adrian_otto | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredWorkflowPrimitives | 20:15 |
| adrian_otto | that's a pretty breif description of what gets built first | 20:15 |
| harlowja | sure, so placement is a very good question and releates a little bit to adrian_otto and similar conversations on the ML | 20:15 |
| maoy | so, from the mailing list discussion, it seems to be prefered to not start from Oslo, then move to Oslo | 20:15 |
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| adrian_otto | this will definitely end up in Oslo | 20:16 |
| adrian_otto | there is no doubt. It's just a matter of when it's at the right maturity level to enter there. | 20:16 |
| harlowja | agreed | 20:16 |
| maoy | we just need to figure out which non-oslo to begin with | 20:16 |
| maoy | heat, cinder, nova? | 20:16 |
| jgriffith | cinder :) | 20:16 |
| maoy | reddwarf? | 20:16 |
| hemna | :) | 20:16 |
| harlowja | and i think myself and others want to get it into oslo, but there is still alot of experimentation and work to get it to that stage i think | 20:17 |
| maoy | jgriffith: great! | 20:17 |
| adrian_otto | RedDwarf can use it probably sooner than Heat will be ready. That's my sense of it. | 20:17 |
| jgriffith | maoy: harlowja what about a joint nova/cinder first round | 20:17 |
| harlowja | so the question is what can be done to do heat, cinder, nova, reddwarf at once :) | 20:17 |
| jgriffith | after that's proven out a bit we push to oslo | 20:17 |
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| adrian_otto | well, even before that possible | 20:17 |
| jgriffith | harlowja: insists on asking hard questions | 20:17 |
| harlowja | haha | 20:17 |
| adrian_otto | we just need it in one project, and a pull request for a second | 20:17 |
| adrian_otto | but let's not put the cart before the horse | 20:18 |
| jgriffith | adrian_otto: that's fine but I think we need some up front coordination and collab on the design | 20:18 |
| hemna | cinder has a BP for a "state machine/object" for Havana. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/cinder-state-machine | 20:18 |
| adrian_otto | I'd like to take a moment to see if the current plan would meet Cinder's needs. | 20:18 |
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| harlowja | hemna interesting, did not know about that | 20:18 |
| harlowja | so a potential plan could be… | 20:18 |
| hemna | It's not much, mostly a placeholder for a desired state mgmt for cinder | 20:19 |
| jgriffith | adrian_otto: sorry I was late, is there a wiki or some docs on the current plan you referred to? | 20:19 |
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| harlowja | say we form a group of devs that want to work on this, have active core members of said sub-projects involved (maybe not coding it, but involved) and start said project in stackforge to encourage rapid development on said project | 20:19 |
| hemna | jgriffith, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredWorkflowPrimitives | 20:19 |
| jgriffith | hemna: thanks | 20:20 |
| adrian_otto | is "https://launchpad.net/%7Ewalter-boring" in this chat? | 20:20 |
| hemna | <-- | 20:20 |
| adrian_otto | ok, cool | 20:20 |
| changbl | +1 to harlowja | 20:21 |
| adrian_otto | and is "https://launchpad.net/%7Ejohn-griffith" also here? | 20:21 |
| harlowja | i personally just feel that if we start in stack forge, we can prototype really fast, have active core members from say reddwarf, nova, heat involved in the ideas (maybe not code) | 20:21 |
| hemna | harlowja, +1 I'm ok with that. | 20:21 |
| harlowja | we could even publish a pypi package of this (when it reaches some level of maturity) that those core projects can use | 20:21 |
| adrian_otto | +1 | 20:21 |
| harlowja | and when its more stabilized shift to oslo | 20:21 |
| maoy | harlowja: i'm not sure we need to start from stackforge given cinder's strong demand. why not directly into cinder? | 20:21 |
| adrian_otto | using stackforge comes with advantages of the CICD resources form OpenStack | 20:22 |
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| adrian_otto | s/form/from/ | 20:22 |
| harlowja | maoy i think other projects also have strong demands for this so its not just 1 strong demand i feel | 20:22 |
| maoy | fair enough. | 20:22 |
| maoy | so let me get the procedure right: | 20:23 |
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| jgriffith | just fyi from my perspective I"m fine with either approach but I would likely suck things in to cinder earlier anyway | 20:23 |
| harlowja | i agree, sucking in early would be the goal | 20:23 |
| adrian_otto | hemna: woudl something implementd in a library that lets you have a local state machine fork for your use case, or are you looking for an API controlled service? | 20:23 |
| maoy | commit into stackforge, copy paste into cinder, convert cinder code to using the library? | 20:23 |
| harlowja | copy paste | 20:23 |
| harlowja | eck | 20:23 |
| jgriffith | adrian_otto: lib for state machine is what I had planned for now at least | 20:24 |
| jgriffith | hemna: agree? | 20:24 |
| adrian_otto | ok, good, that's what we will ahve first | 20:24 |
| harlowja | i was thinking that we could directly publish a pypi library no? | 20:24 |
| hemna | yah that's fine. | 20:24 |
| hemna | don't have strong feelings either way about that | 20:24 |
| hemna | an API might be better long term...dunno | 20:24 |
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| harlowja | copy paste scares me :) | 20:24 |
| jgriffith | harlowja: I'm debating that same thing with the idea of brick but I don't know that it's important to weigh in right now (because I can't) :) | 20:25 |
| adrian_otto | so it looks like using Cinder's blueprint as the first one would make sense. I'm really happy to have more eyeballs on this. | 20:25 |
| harlowja | ya, its new ground | 20:25 |
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| harlowja | so does everyone think that process would be a good first step? | 20:25 |
| adrian_otto | RedDwarrf and Heat should be close after. | 20:25 |
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| hemna | hopefully before H3 we could get this in oslo though | 20:26 |
| harlowja | stackforge, have interested core members involved in library, work partially toward cinders BP as a potential first target | 20:26 |
| adrian_otto | Nova may end up being later, but we can start small there, and iterate toward the more demanding task flows | 20:26 |
| harlowja | adrian_otto agreed | 20:26 |
| maoy | sounds like a great plan | 20:27 |
| harlowja | hemna agreed to | 20:27 |
| changbl | soudns good to me | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | wow, folks are in a good mood today :) | 20:27 |
| harlowja | maximal code, minimal red tape is my goal :) | 20:27 |
| hemna | sweet. | 20:27 |
| maoy | although for the record, i do prefer to start from cinder directly.. | 20:27 |
| maoy | just better focus and easier to debug | 20:27 |
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| hemna | I'm ok with it living in cinder for now as well. | 20:27 |
| harlowja | maoy this is where i think having said core memebers involved in said library comes into play | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | I think if we advertise the effort it works fine | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | and we get gating and unit testing which is critical | 20:28 |
| adrian_otto | awesome, that may actually reduce complexity too | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | harlowja: although to be fair I'm not all that familiar with using stackforge | 20:29 |
| harlowja | its pretty simple, u get the gating and unittests also | 20:29 |
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| jgriffith | ahh... yeah, looking at it now | 20:29 |
| adrian_otto | let's not bother with StackForge if working in Cinder is preferred | 20:29 |
| maoy | harlowja: IMO it's just slightly more painful to have two projects in the beginning. | 20:29 |
| adrian_otto | the sooner this makes it to Oslo the better it will be for all the stakeholders | 20:30 |
| jgriffith | I prpose we at least try it and if it seems problematic revist the decision | 20:30 |
| jgriffith | cinder that is ^^ | 20:30 |
| changbl | +1 to maoy | 20:30 |
| changbl | better 1 project to start | 20:30 |
| adrian_otto | +1 | 20:30 |
| hemna | ok +1 for cinder | 20:30 |
| maoy | adrian_otto: good point. if we get attractions in cinder, we might skip stackforge and go directly to olso | 20:30 |
| harlowja | ok, so seems like we have some consensus :) | 20:31 |
| maoy | if we don't, we can still use stackforge.. | 20:31 |
| harlowja | #agreed attempt at developing taskflow in cinder to start | 20:31 |
| harlowja | sound good? | 20:31 |
| adrian_otto | we might use stackforge to kickstart the API service built on the taskflow library's state machine code | 20:31 |
| maoy | yeah | 20:31 |
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| adrian_otto | as that's probably more than Cinder's charter calls for | 20:32 |
| harlowja | ya, there is a whole transition to oslo that i'm not sure about | 20:32 |
| harlowja | but i guess we can hit that when we get there | 20:32 |
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| maoy | harlowja: agreed | 20:33 |
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| harlowja | ok, so thats good news, it would still be useful to me to have interested other core members involved | 20:34 |
| harlowja | at least in design i think :) | 20:34 |
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| jgriffith | harlowja: +1 I think that's a requirement | 20:34 |
| harlowja | cool, then it won't become so cinder specific we will be like oops, that might not work so well over there in X project | 20:35 |
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| jgriffith | yup | 20:35 |
| maoy | absolutely | 20:35 |
| harlowja | cool | 20:35 |
| adrian_otto | hub_cap agreed to be on it | 20:35 |
| jgriffith | we can even have lazy rules about +2/A for cinder core folks | 20:35 |
| maoy | pardon my ignorance. do we have heat core in the room? | 20:35 |
| adrian_otto | shardy: yt? | 20:36 |
| harlowja | #agreed have core 'sponsors' from other projects that want to use said taskflow library (starting in cinder) be involved from the start in design (and even code if they have time) | 20:36 |
| harlowja | so thats cool, great news to me :) | 20:37 |
| harlowja | maybe i can send a ML email to get interested parties (that might not have shown up here) | 20:37 |
| harlowja | sound good? | 20:38 |
| jgriffith | harlowja: sounds good to me | 20:38 |
| changbl | yes | 20:38 |
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| adrian_otto | maoy: looks like no, heat code (shardy) is not here | 20:38 |
| harlowja | #action harlowja send email to ML to get other interested core people involved | 20:38 |
| adrian_otto | s/code/core/ | 20:38 |
| maoy | adrian_otto: ack. np | 20:38 |
| anniec | sounds good harlowja, will be good to get a nova core volunteer ;P | 20:38 |
| harlowja | of course | 20:39 |
| maoy | jgriffith: which API(s) in cinder (or prodedures, workflows, taskflows) do you see has the potentials to be the early adoptor? | 20:40 |
| jgriffith | maoy: My primary focus to start is state transistion on the volume life-cycle | 20:40 |
| jgriffith | maoy: hemna may have additional input for FC | 20:40 |
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| jgriffith | maoy: currently like most we just fill in a string at various points in the code | 20:41 |
| maoy | jgriffith: does cinder have a state transition graph like this in nova? http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/devref/vmstates.html | 20:41 |
| maoy | oops. the graph is not rendered. | 20:41 |
| harlowja | #link ttp://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/devref/vmstates.html | 20:42 |
| harlowja | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/devref/vmstates.html | 20:42 |
| harlowja | #topic cinder-primitives | 20:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cinder-primitives (Meeting topic: state-management-goodness)" | 20:42 | |
| hemna | I don't think I've seen one | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | maoy: harlowja we do not | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | so there's the first task :) | 20:42 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:42 |
| maoy | hehe | 20:42 |
| harlowja | ya, that is expected i think, gotta figure out what its doing first ;) | 20:42 |
| harlowja | then how to map it to taskflow | 20:43 |
| harlowja | and this is where the primitives might come in handy | 20:43 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredWorkflowPrimitives | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | k... we'll have to move pretty quick and get some of this put together | 20:44 |
| harlowja | *others feel free to add any ones that they think are useful also* | 20:44 |
| harlowja | jgriffith agreed, quickness is part of the fun | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | :) | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | hemna: and I can sort that out | 20:44 |
| hemna | ok | 20:44 |
| jgriffith | at least the initial pieces | 20:44 |
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| harlowja | that be very useful, at least then we can sorta discuss as to how it might fit | 20:44 |
| * jgriffith likes to volunteer hemna for things :) | 20:44 | |
| harlowja | and adjust from there | 20:44 |
| hemna | :P | 20:45 |
| harlowja | and debate about any new primitives, or removing other ones and so on | 20:45 |
| harlowja | i was sort of forming this for these types of things | 20:46 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StructuredWorkflows | 20:46 |
| jgriffith | sounds good... maoy, adrian_otto ? | 20:46 |
| harlowja | that could be the multi-project main page for this kind of stuff | 20:46 |
| jgriffith | harlowja: sure | 20:46 |
| maoy | jgriffith: great. look forward to it | 20:47 |
| harlowja | #action jgriffith hemna document a possible taskflow,workflow to take, then reconvine via ML (or email or IRC) about how library (which is slightly in progress) may have to be adjusted to accomdate | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | #action cinder team to provide cinder workflow data | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | haha! | 20:47 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:47 |
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| hemna | rock on! | 20:48 |
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| harlowja | it'd be very interesting to start collecting what the other taskflows other core projects think would be useful to 'attack' on there end | 20:48 |
| harlowja | since the more knowledge we can gather, then better we can design | 20:48 |
| harlowja | *the better | 20:48 |
| harlowja | nova is an interesting one that has many potential paths | 20:49 |
| harlowja | *and is the one i am most familiar with, although maoy i would think knows best | 20:49 |
| harlowja | maoy or russellb or others | 20:49 |
| harlowja | but not an immediate need i guess :) | 20:50 |
| harlowja | #topic open-dicussion | 20:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-dicussion (Meeting topic: state-management-goodness)" | 20:50 | |
| harlowja | any other things people want to talk about? | 20:50 |
| harlowja | no question turned away :) | 20:50 |
| adrian_otto | I hve a question about backends | 20:51 |
| adrian_otto | the current patch (sorry no link on hand) implements a ZX backend | 20:51 |
| adrian_otto | I saw a Dummy.py in there | 20:51 |
| adrian_otto | there was discussion of in-memory in the past meeting | 20:52 |
| harlowja | yup, i think dummy -> in-memory | 20:52 |
| adrian_otto | do we need a simple on-disk version? | 20:52 |
| harlowja | could be, i guess it depends on which primitive u want to back by disk | 20:52 |
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| harlowja | but i could imagine a task-log being backed by sqllite for example | 20:53 |
| harlowja | a locking mechanism also, could be using filelocks | 20:53 |
| harlowja | a type of job 'availability' board though would be a little odd to just have in-memory, but for testing it seems important | 20:53 |
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| harlowja | so adrian_otto i think we could have that :) | 20:54 |
| harlowja | but might need to know more about which piece u are thinking about | 20:55 |
| adrian_otto | so just about every workflow in Nova is vulnerable to a service restart | 20:55 |
| harlowja | yup | 20:55 |
| harlowja | *or power failure | 20:55 |
| adrian_otto | and we won't likely take a ZK dependency by default | 20:55 |
| harlowja | yup | 20:55 |
| adrian_otto | so having something that works well on a single node, and survives restarts (even if crash recovery process is needed) will be useful | 20:55 |
| harlowja | so i think it would be local, in-memory, DB impl, then maybe a ZK impl | 20:55 |
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| harlowja | *in-memory mainly for testing | 20:56 |
| adrian_otto | the DB impl might be sketchy for stuff like locks | 20:56 |
| harlowja | yup | 20:56 |
| adrian_otto | so it might need to be a combination | 20:56 |
| harlowja | agreed | 20:56 |
| adrian_otto | I trust fcntl() and flock() but not MySQL GET_LOCK or whatever | 20:56 |
| harlowja | can u expand on that idea, like i think i know the scenario u are thinking of, but might not be :) | 20:56 |
| jlucci | I think we only need a DB impl for completed jobs | 20:57 |
| harlowja | *as time runs out :( | 20:57 |
| jlucci | an executing job doesn't need to persist in a DB | 20:57 |
| adrian_otto | indeed. where can we capture this as an item for further discussion? | 20:57 |
| harlowja | i can capture, but might be useful to continue on another channel, or ML? | 20:57 |
| harlowja | so many good idears :) | 20:58 |
| harlowja | *would rather not wait a week to talk about them | 20:58 |
| adrian_otto | ok, tx, that's it for now on this subject | 20:58 |
| adrian_otto | will follow up after meeting to keep it moving | 20:58 |
| harlowja | cool | 20:58 |
| harlowja | 1 minute left! | 20:59 |
| harlowja | i'll capture this stuff and send it out | 20:59 |
| glikson | good progress :-) | 20:59 |
| harlowja | def | 20:59 |
| harlowja | thx all! | 20:59 |
| harlowja | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 9 20:59:51 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management_goodness/2013/state_management_goodness.2013-05-09-20.00.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management_goodness/2013/state_management_goodness.2013-05-09-20.00.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management_goodness/2013/state_management_goodness.2013-05-09-20.00.log.html | 20:59 |
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| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu May 9 21:02:11 2013 UTC. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:02 |
| russellb | who's around to talk nova? | 21:02 |
| dansmith | o/ | 21:02 |
| cburgess | <-- | 21:02 |
| cyeoh | hi | 21:02 |
| rerngvit | hi | 21:02 |
| hartsocks | hey | 21:02 |
| n0ano | o/ | 21:02 |
| alaski | o/ | 21:02 |
| beagles | hi | 21:02 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 21:02 |
| russellb | #topic release status - havana-1 | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "release status - havana-1 (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| russellb | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/havana | 21:02 |
| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-1 | 21:03 |
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| russellb | havana-1 is scheduled for 3 weeks from today, which means patches need to be in in less time than that | 21:03 |
| russellb | probably may 21 | 21:03 |
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| russellb | so with that said, we need to be watching our goals for havana-1 | 21:03 |
| devananda | \o | 21:03 |
| russellb | the blueprint list is looking pretty aggressive | 21:03 |
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| russellb | take a look at the havana-1 list and let me know if the status needs updating on any | 21:04 |
| russellb | or if you feel like it should be pushed back, let me know that too | 21:04 |
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| russellb | if you're the assignee, you *should* be able to update the status along the way yourself, so please do | 21:04 |
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| russellb | any comments/questions on release / havana-1 status? | 21:05 |
| russellb | as we get closer, i will start hounding people for updates :-) | 21:06 |
| devananda | i'm not going to make https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1078080 happen soon | 21:06 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1078080 in nova "libvirt rescue doesn't respect image_meta passed in" [High,Triaged] | 21:06 |
| russellb | still want it on you? | 21:07 |
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| russellb | or unassign? | 21:07 |
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| devananda | actually, no. it doesn't really apply to ironic | 21:07 |
| russellb | k, removed you | 21:07 |
| devananda | id consider it a feature for baremetal at this point | 21:07 |
| russellb | so someone else can grab it | 21:07 |
| devananda | k | 21:07 |
| russellb | sounds like i can change it to wishlist then? | 21:08 |
| russellb | high is == "High if the bug prevents a key feature from working properly for some users (or with a workaround)" | 21:08 |
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| russellb | "Wishlist if the bug is not really a bug, but rather a welcome change in behavior:] | 21:09 |
| russellb | from https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/BugTriage | 21:09 |
| russellb | k, on to bugs | 21:09 |
| russellb | #topic bugs | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:09 | |
| russellb | we had a bug day! | 21:09 |
| russellb | mikal: how was it? | 21:09 |
| mikal | It seemed to go ok even! | 21:09 |
| mikal | Triage worked well | 21:09 |
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| mikal | We didn't seem to _close_ many more bugs than normal though | 21:10 |
| russellb | triage uncovered a few important things though | 21:10 |
| mikal | But we found some imporant stuff in the triage process | 21:10 |
| russellb | that's quite valuable | 21:10 |
| mikal | Agreed | 21:10 |
| russellb | how many did we triage? | 21:10 |
| russellb | -ish | 21:10 |
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| mikal | Last I looked (yesterday) about 60 bugs | 21:10 |
| russellb | cool, i like numbers | 21:10 |
| russellb | so shall we do it again? | 21:10 |
| mikal | Yes, for sure | 21:11 |
| dripton | Keep review lag in mind; we may have closed some bugs that just aren't all the way through the pipeline. | 21:11 |
| russellb | if we do it regularly, maybe there will be less in triage, and more time can be spent fixing | 21:11 |
| mikal | I think we said every two weeks? | 21:11 |
| russellb | mikal: sounds good to me | 21:11 |
| mikal | dripton: I was tracking "in progress", which happens when the review is sent | 21:11 |
| russellb | dripton: yeah, indeed. we can look at how many go to "in progress" though ... yes what mikal said :) | 21:11 |
| mikal | Its ok though | 21:11 |
| dripton | mikal: you're anticipating my suggestions before I can make them | 21:12 |
| mikal | Perhaps its because triage was such a mess | 21:12 |
| mikal | Baby steps | 21:12 |
| melwitt | from mikal's email I thought most of the focus was intended to be on triage so I think I misunderstood | 21:12 |
| russellb | yeah that took all of my bug time | 21:12 |
| russellb | triage is step 1 really | 21:12 |
| mikal | melwitt: I think triage was important, so I'm not sad if people focussed on that | 21:12 |
| cburgess | Where did we end up doing all the triage and discussion? Was it openstack-nova? Did I miss it because I was busy? | 21:12 |
| * comstud lurks | 21:13 | |
| senhuang | could non-core deveveloper do triage? | 21:13 |
| mikal | cburgess: there was an irc chanell (openstack-bugday) but it was basically idle when I was awake | 21:13 |
| * russellb talked in #openstack-nova the whole time ... | 21:13 | |
| russellb | i think we should just use -nova | 21:13 |
| cyeoh | senhuang: could do some confirming of bugs or asking for more info etc... | 21:13 |
| mikal | senhuang: to my understanding yes, someone was during the day (he could mark things incomplete at least) | 21:13 |
| cburgess | Opps.. ok my bad. I'll be sure to join it next time. russellb did give me a bug yesterday that I got a review up for today but I had wanted to help more. | 21:13 |
| russellb | anyone is welcome to do triage | 21:13 |
| senhuang | cyeoh: mikal: thanks! | 21:13 |
| russellb | triage instructions here: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/BugTriage | 21:14 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/BugTriage | 21:14 |
| mikal | We also ended up with a wiki page with suggestions on how to write a good bug report, so that's cool | 21:14 |
| russellb | nice | 21:14 |
| alaski | senhuang: I think you need to join https://launchpad.net/~nova-bugs to triage, but it's open to non-core | 21:14 |
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| russellb | alaski: good point | 21:14 |
| russellb | forgot about that | 21:14 |
| senhuang | alaski: that is cool. will do | 21:15 |
| russellb | mikal: thanks for organizing / posting stats | 21:15 |
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| mikal | We should add that to the triage instructions | 21:15 |
| melwitt | yeah, I'm not core but I was able to confirm a few/add comments, resolve inconsistent state | 21:15 |
| mikal | russellb: NP | 21:15 |
| russellb | any more comments/questions on bugs? | 21:15 |
| russellb | cburgess: i saw your patch go up today btw, haven't had a chance to look, but thanks a lot! will look as soon as i can | 21:16 |
| cburgess | No worries | 21:16 |
| russellb | have a link for the log? | 21:16 |
| cburgess | Sorry what? | 21:16 |
| russellb | link to the review | 21:17 |
| cburgess | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28717/ | 21:17 |
| russellb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28717/ | 21:17 |
| russellb | thanks | 21:17 |
| russellb | alrighty, onwards | 21:17 |
| russellb | #topic sub-team reports | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sub-team reports (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:17 | |
| senhuang | russellb: have you had a chance to the proposed fix for bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1049249 | 21:17 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1049249 in nova "Remove plugging of internal classes from configuration" [High,Confirmed] | 21:17 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Teams#Nova_subteams | 21:17 |
| russellb | sub-teams are listed there | 21:17 |
| russellb | i'd like to start getting quick reports from these teams when there's useful info to report | 21:18 |
| russellb | so any representatives want to recap what you're up to? | 21:18 |
| harlowja | suree | 21:18 |
| harlowja | so there was talk about where to have the placement of said 'taskflow' library to start | 21:19 |
| harlowja | *a place where it can be rapidly worked on | 21:19 |
| harlowja | and where it solves an immediate need | 21:19 |
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| johnthetubaguy | in XenAPI, we went over lots of blueprints, and some hotish bugs, making progress | 21:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | #help https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-vif-hotplug needs some help | 21:20 |
| russellb | what kind of help | 21:20 |
| russellb | someone to do it? | 21:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | yup, ideally | 21:20 |
| harlowja | so there was some consensus that cinder might be a good place for that, but also consensus that it would be very useful to have core memebers of different openstack subprojects involved in reviewing said code, the design process and so on, so that said library does not just become only useful for nova | 21:20 |
| russellb | harlowja: thinking of trying something on stackforge? | 21:21 |
| harlowja | there was some talk about stackforge | 21:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | On more XenAPI thing, poeple are working on SmokeStack and getting that working, that is all from me. Sorry to inteject. | 21:21 |
| russellb | johnthetubaguy: +1 :-) | 21:21 |
| glikson | harlowja: you mean, "only useful for Cinder" | 21:21 |
| harlowja | *yes thx | 21:21 |
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| johnthetubaguy | stackforge could work, I guess its that copy you are trying to avoid? oslo incubator? | 21:22 |
| harlowja | well not just the copy, the red tape is part of it | 21:22 |
| russellb | could start in stackforge, maybe eventually it goes to oslo later once it materializes | 21:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | makes sense | 21:23 |
| russellb | cool, well thanks for the updates | 21:23 |
| hartsocks | … just want to announce a VMwareAPI subteam meeting next week … #link | 21:23 |
| n0ano | For the scheduler we're basically doing a first pass throught | 21:23 |
| n0ano | the ~11 subjects brought up at the conference, there'll be more | 21:23 |
| n0ano | detail coming soon. | 21:23 |
| n0ano | One interesting issue is `future of scheduler' which is | 21:23 |
| n0ano | really an idea to have the scheduler find the nodes but | 21:23 |
| hartsocks | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/VMwareAPI | 21:23 |
| n0ano | not actually start the instances, have an orchestrator do | 21:23 |
| n0ano | that. | 21:23 |
| harlowja | russellb so there might be some ongoing discussion about placement, but there was mostly agreement that it might fit best in cinder for now, its a tricky one though | 21:23 |
| harlowja | i am fine with it on stackforge, with core people from the different teams providing input | 21:24 |
| senhuang | harlowja: is this placement about selecting a node for volume? | 21:24 |
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| devananda | harlowja: what's the problem with stackforge? | 21:24 |
| harlowja | unsure, jgriffith has an AI to help flush that out | 21:24 |
| russellb | n0ano: re: future of the scheduler, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/query-scheduler ? | 21:24 |
| harlowja | devananda so there was disussion about how starting on stackforge may create a project that is useful for all, but useful for none :-p | 21:24 |
| alaski | russellb: yeah, that was it | 21:25 |
| russellb | cool | 21:25 |
| n0ano | russellb, yeah, that's it | 21:25 |
| russellb | alright, couple of quick announcements, then open discussion (and can talk more about these teams activities if needed) | 21:25 |
| russellb | #topic other announcements | 21:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "other announcements (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:25 | |
| hartsocks | ah. | 21:25 |
| hartsocks | I should have waited for here to announce sorry. | 21:25 |
| russellb | I updated a wiki page to describe support states of virt drivers | 21:25 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HypervisorSupportMatrix | 21:26 |
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| russellb | johnthetubaguy says they're working to move XenAPI up quickly back to group B, and eventually group A | 21:26 |
| russellb | i know there's work on baremetal testing, too | 21:26 |
| russellb | would like to see all drivers move out of group C eventually | 21:26 |
| russellb | other note ... i started a "virt driver architecture" thread today, check it out | 21:27 |
| russellb | i don't want to go into it too much here and fragment the conversation | 21:27 |
| johnthetubaguy | :-) trying | 21:27 |
| russellb | #topic open discussion | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:27 | |
| rerngvit | may I ask about a direction for one particular patch? | 21:27 |
| russellb | hartsocks: sorry, didn't mean to cut you off if you had more to say about your team meeting | 21:27 |
| russellb | rerngvit: yes | 21:28 |
| hartsocks | russelb: y'all type fast. | 21:28 |
| harlowja | so would any nova core members like to join in help said taskflow library be the best it can be, i know some about nova, but not as much as everyone else, and i'd like the library to be able to plug-in to the future of nova | 21:28 |
| rerngvit | this patch(https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18462/ ) is postponed from Grizzly because we don't know how this should be implemented | 21:28 |
| russellb | hartsocks: irc meetings can get crazy, heh | 21:28 |
| rerngvit | is it still the case? that I should wait of decision or I can progress on with it? | 21:29 |
| johnthetubaguy | harlowja: I am not core, but interested in taskflow from the live-migration refactor blueprint sense | 21:29 |
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| russellb | rerngvit: that was blocked because of the grizzly feature freeze, so it's fine now | 21:29 |
| devananda | harlowja: i'll probably lurk on the taskflow stuff, not sure how actively i'll contribute though | 21:29 |
| harlowja | johnthetubaguy agreed, i can help u sync up if u want about what is happning | 21:29 |
| russellb | rerngvit: there were a few people working on that ... need to check for duplication | 21:29 |
| alaski | harlowja: I also want to lurk, but can't commit to much help atm | 21:30 |
| johnthetubaguy | harlowja: +1 its just the meeting time sucks in my timezone | 21:30 |
| harlowja | johnthetubaguy ya | 21:30 |
| rerngvit | ok, thank you. | 21:30 |
| russellb | rerngvit: actually looks like the blueprint in the havana plan is assigned to you, i think we're good. | 21:30 |
| russellb | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/utilization-based-scheduling | 21:30 |
| russellb | rerngvit: so yes, please re-propose when you're ready :-) | 21:30 |
| harlowja | alaski devananda great to have u guys | 21:30 |
| eharney | re: blueprints - i am starting to look at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/glusterfs-native-support | 21:31 |
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| devananda | also, any -core folks interested in join in on Ironic? | 21:31 |
| rerngvit | ok thanks | 21:31 |
| eharney | i emailed the original author, he said he didn't have time to work on it | 21:31 |
| harlowja | devananda i'm not core but i'd like to help make sure u get whatever u need from y! people | 21:31 |
| russellb | devananda: certainly an interested observer ... my hands are a bit full atm though | 21:31 |
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| russellb | devananda: where will you discuss things? openstack-dev with [Ironic], #openstack-ironic? code on stackforge? | 21:32 |
| devananda | russellb: ofc :) | 21:32 |
| devananda | russellb: yes. openstack-dev [ironic], also there is an #openstack-ironic channel, and the code will be on gerrit (not stackforge) once the name passes trademark checks | 21:33 |
| russellb | I can't believe I forgot to mention Ironic in this meeting! | 21:33 |
| devananda | :) | 21:33 |
| russellb | so yeah, if you didn't follow ... the Technical Committee approved Ironic as a new incubated project for the split out of baremetal from Nova | 21:33 |
| russellb | I think it's really exciting stuff | 21:33 |
| russellb | congrats to devananda and crew | 21:34 |
| devananda | \o/ | 21:34 |
| harlowja | devananda +1 | 21:34 |
| devananda | first meeting will be monday 1900 utc | 21:34 |
| comstud | woot. | 21:34 |
| russellb | if all goes well, we will be marking the current baremetal driver as deprecated in havana, and remove it in I | 21:35 |
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| russellb | we'll see how it goes, but I have a ton of faith in the guys that have been driving it :-) | 21:35 |
| mriedem1 | russellb: going back to the group c comment on the hypervisor support matrix, just curious what the red indicates in the x'ed cell for powervm here? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HypervisorSupportMatrix#Hypervisor_feature_support_matrix | 21:35 |
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| russellb | mriedem1: ask sdague, he did that | 21:35 |
| dansmith | hah | 21:36 |
| sdague | heh | 21:36 |
| dansmith | mriedem1: just color testing | 21:36 |
| dansmith | mriedem1: fear not :) | 21:36 |
| sdague | sorry, I was chatting with dan earlier about making the x's pop more | 21:36 |
| dansmith | my fault | 21:36 |
| sdague | so figured out how to make them red | 21:36 |
| russellb | busted | 21:36 |
| dansmith | yes, busted indeed | 21:36 |
| sdague | pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.... | 21:36 |
| jog0 | I know I am coming really late to the meeting, but since its in open discussion I thought I would plug the work Bluehost has done to nova. I haven't had time to dig in but it looks interesting as there cloud is 16k nodes. Slides http://www.slideshare.net/junparkearth/blue-host-openstacksummit2013 code https://github.com/UpooPoo/nova | 21:37 |
| mriedem1 | sdague: no problem - was just wondering if i needed to take something back to my team | 21:37 |
| mriedem1 | thanks | 21:37 |
| devananda | re: ironic, i could use a few ppl with deeper openstack knowledge to at least review, if not contribute, to the framework, once there is some code on gerrit | 21:37 |
| russellb | UpooPoo? | 21:37 |
| harlowja | lol | 21:37 |
| asadoughi | wanted to mention https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/nova-network-legacy going to start up patchsets for modifiy libvirt and baremetal(ironic, now?) that i had abandoned previously | 21:37 |
| devananda | which i'm thinking should be any day now | 21:37 |
| jog0 | yeahhhh | 21:37 |
| russellb | asadoughi: great | 21:38 |
| mikal | devananda: I'm happy to review, but I'm maxed out on other stuff coding wize | 21:38 |
| devananda | to help align it with other openstack services and APIs and stuff | 21:38 |
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| devananda | mikal: that'd be awesome | 21:38 |
| jog0 | russellb: with 16k node cluster they can call it whatever they want | 21:38 |
| russellb | jog0: lol, fair enough | 21:39 |
| mriedem1 | harlowja: was there anything you wanted to bring up in the meeting for default AZ? re: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28645/ - i thought you mentioned that in #openstack-nova earlier today | 21:39 |
| russellb | but yes, really want to talk to them more ... | 21:39 |
| jog0 | they have a quantum patch set too https://github.com/JunPark/quantum/tree/bluehost/master | 21:39 |
| mikal | devananda: the project is called openstack/ironic, right? | 21:39 |
| devananda | mikal: yes | 21:39 |
| devananda | mikal: it's in LP. just not in gerrit yet | 21:39 |
| russellb | ironic may get the award for most clever codename yet | 21:39 |
| harlowja | mriedem1, oh yes thanks! | 21:39 |
| russellb | (hopefully it passes) | 21:40 |
| devananda | russellb: let's just hope it passes lawyer checks! | 21:40 |
| harlowja | so there was https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28645/ but i am slightly confused as to which AZ we should actually select for an instance | 21:40 |
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| harlowja | the instance db entry has a AZ field, but then the current code uses the host which the compute node is on, and then there is aggregates, and ... | 21:41 |
| devananda | I am hacking on it here https://github.com/devananda/ironic until it has a Real Home (tm) | 21:41 |
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| russellb | #note ironic is here until it has a real home: https://github.com/devananda/ironic | 21:41 |
| asadoughi | devananda: would you prefer nova baremetal patches in the interim or wait for ironic to happen? | 21:42 |
| harlowja | any thoughts on which az we should really be using would be appreciated | 21:42 |
| devananda | asadoughi: if they are fixing bugs in baremetal, yes please! | 21:42 |
| devananda | which reminds me, lifeless has been a bug-reporting machine the last few days | 21:42 |
| glikson | any particular reason why AZ should be a field of an instance? | 21:42 |
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| lifeless | devananda: comes from trying to use it :) | 21:43 |
| * lifeless doesn't mean that nastily | 21:43 | |
| glikson | maybe just remove it from instance altogether, and use the one from host/whatever | 21:43 |
| harlowja | is there a reason/usage of it existing in the instance table though that i might not be aware of | 21:44 |
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| harlowja | it sort of comes down to what is the defintion we are picking for an AZ | 21:44 |
| harlowja | if an AZ is an aggregate, the hosts can be in multiple aggregates | 21:45 |
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| mrodden | aggregates aren't user facing IIRC | 21:45 |
| mrodden | AZ is supposed to be the user facing choice | 21:45 |
| russellb | correct | 21:46 |
| harlowja | so then whats in the instance table would be the one true AZ, and not the AZ of the host it sits on | 21:46 |
| glikson | still, it can be kept as a property of the host.. can different instances on the same host belong to different AZs? I hope not.. | 21:46 |
| russellb | let's see if we can sort it out in gerrit, i need to refresh myself on the code some more to comment | 21:46 |
| mrodden | glikson: yeah that would kind of defeat the point of AZs | 21:47 |
| mrodden | if two instances with different AZs existed on the same host | 21:47 |
| asadoughi | devananda: well in the case of the baremetal patch i am thinking of .. it was a bug that turned into a blueprint and is targeted for havana-2. any differing thoughts? | 21:47 |
| devananda | asadoughi: link? | 21:48 |
| asadoughi | devananda: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/nova-network-legacy | 21:48 |
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| harlowja | russellb so any comments on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/28645/ would be appreciated, was trying to fix phils bug there, but it seems like there is more needed input than what i have | 21:48 |
| harlowja | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1172246 | 21:48 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1172246 in nova "AZ reported wrongly until instance is scheduled" [Medium,In progress] | 21:48 |
| devananda | asadoughi: that's a fix in my book :) | 21:49 |
| russellb | cool thanks | 21:49 |
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| russellb | alright, if anyone wants to chat further, #openstack-nova is always open | 21:50 |
| russellb | thanks for coming! | 21:50 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 21:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack" | 21:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu May 9 21:50:30 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-05-09-21.02.html | 21:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-05-09-21.02.txt | 21:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-05-09-21.02.log.html | 21:50 |
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| devananda | asadoughi: though it doesn't look like you addressed lifeless' concerns on the patch here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/21533/11/nova/virt/baremetal/pxe.py | 21:53 |
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| lifeless | indeed! | 21:54 |
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| asadoughi | ah i haven't touched the code in a while, but i think the question i was pondering was a bugfix vs feature implementation. the main mission of the blueprint was to allow for ipv6 without ipv4 and i was resolving everything in its path to separate it out, wasn't interested in implementing features of handling extra subnets. | 21:57 |
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| asadoughi | devananda: and the current code masks that away, as-is, when it converts from current to legacy formats. i'm not sure if lifeless 's issue was that it was becoming an explicit mishandling. | 21:59 |
| lifeless | asadoughi: right, at the moment 'using legacy implies not handling it' | 22:00 |
| lifeless | asadoughi: if we get rid of legacy, then something that was not buggy before becomes buggy | 22:00 |
| lifeless | unless we also handle the other changes implied by getting rid of legacy | 22:00 |
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| lifeless | asadoughi: you should be able to do ipv6 w/out ipv4 in other hypervisors without removing the legacy codepath | 22:00 |
| asadoughi | lifeless: not the way code is shared between drivers | 22:01 |
| lifeless | asadoughi: if you want to do it in baremetal; I'll be very interested in how you're going to handle PXE :) | 22:01 |
| asadoughi | lifeless: not sure i agree with "not buggy becomes buggy" | 22:01 |
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| lifeless | asadoughi: perhaps -> nova? | 22:01 |
| lifeless | #nova I mean | 22:01 |
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