Thursday, 2013-05-16

*** flaper87 has quit IRC00:00
*** egallen has quit IRC00:03
*** jlucci has joined #openstack-meeting00:03
*** jlucci has quit IRC00:06
*** garyTh has quit IRC00:08
*** gongysh has joined #openstack-meeting00:09
*** markpeek has quit IRC00:10
*** yuanz has quit IRC00:11
*** dwcramer has joined #openstack-meeting00:11
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting00:11
*** stevebaker has quit IRC00:14
*** stevebaker_ has joined #openstack-meeting00:14
*** ashwini has joined #openstack-meeting00:19
*** yamahata__ has quit IRC00:26
*** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away00:28
*** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net00:28
*** IlyaE has joined #openstack-meeting00:31
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting00:37
*** jlucci has joined #openstack-meeting00:37
*** sacharya1 has joined #openstack-meeting00:38
*** sacharya has quit IRC00:40
*** markpeek has quit IRC00:41
*** bdpayne has quit IRC00:42
*** Nachi has joined #openstack-meeting00:43
*** yamahata__ has joined #openstack-meeting00:44
*** colinmcnamara has quit IRC00:44
*** armax has quit IRC00:46
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC00:47
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting00:51
*** Nachi has quit IRC00:51
*** markpeek has quit IRC00:53
*** markpeek1 has joined #openstack-meeting00:53
*** markpeek1 has quit IRC00:58
*** markpeek1 has joined #openstack-meeting01:00
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting01:01
*** markpeek1 has quit IRC01:05
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting01:06
*** markpeek has quit IRC01:08
*** emagana has quit IRC01:08
*** koolhead17|afk has joined #openstack-meeting01:17
*** stevemar has joined #openstack-meeting01:21
*** terry7 has quit IRC01:26
*** IlyaE has quit IRC01:26
*** stevebaker_ has quit IRC01:27
*** yaguang has joined #openstack-meeting01:29
*** stevebaker_ has joined #openstack-meeting01:33
*** yaguang has quit IRC01:34
*** ayoung has quit IRC01:35
*** markwash has joined #openstack-meeting01:39
*** mkollaro has quit IRC01:43
*** koolhead17|afk is now known as koolhead1701:46
*** dwcramer has quit IRC01:47
*** lbragstad has joined #openstack-meeting01:49
*** danwent has quit IRC01:51
*** yaguang has joined #openstack-meeting01:51
*** markwash has quit IRC01:51
*** yamahata__ has quit IRC01:53
*** stevemar has quit IRC01:56
*** asalkeld has quit IRC02:01
*** Tross has quit IRC02:04
*** mkollaro has joined #openstack-meeting02:04
*** yamahata__ has joined #openstack-meeting02:05
*** reed has quit IRC02:08
*** stevemar has joined #openstack-meeting02:12
*** Tross has joined #openstack-meeting02:12
*** ozstacker has quit IRC02:15
*** IlyaE has joined #openstack-meeting02:17
*** colinmcnamara has joined #openstack-meeting02:18
*** novas0x2a|laptop has quit IRC02:20
*** dperaza has quit IRC02:22
*** jasondot_ has joined #openstack-meeting02:23
*** dperaza has joined #openstack-meeting02:24
*** NobodyCam has joined #openstack-meeting02:30
*** jasondot_ has quit IRC02:33
*** litong has quit IRC02:34
*** neelashah has joined #openstack-meeting02:42
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting02:44
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting02:45
*** Mandell has quit IRC02:49
*** mkollaro has quit IRC02:56
*** stevemar has quit IRC02:58
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC03:00
*** esker has joined #openstack-meeting03:03
*** cyeoh_ has joined #openstack-meeting03:08
*** nijaba_ has joined #openstack-meeting03:08
*** niska` has joined #openstack-meeting03:09
*** zigo_ has joined #openstack-meeting03:10
*** ladquin is now known as ladquin_away03:10
*** jasondotstar has joined #openstack-meeting03:10
*** lillie has joined #openstack-meeting03:11
*** jasondotstar has quit IRC03:11
*** soren_ has joined #openstack-meeting03:11
*** lillie is now known as Guest8808103:11
*** EntropyWorks_ has joined #openstack-meeting03:11
*** jasondotstar has joined #openstack-meeting03:12
*** al-maisan_ has joined #openstack-meeting03:12
*** swifterdarrell_ has joined #openstack-meeting03:12
*** davidhad- has joined #openstack-meeting03:13
*** dabo has joined #openstack-meeting03:13
*** cyeoh has quit IRC03:13
*** dragondm has quit IRC03:13
*** niska has quit IRC03:13
*** zigo has quit IRC03:13
*** EntropyWorks has quit IRC03:13
*** Guest78415 has quit IRC03:13
*** nijaba has quit IRC03:13
*** dabo- has quit IRC03:13
*** swifterdarrell has quit IRC03:13
*** al-maisan has quit IRC03:13
*** fungi has quit IRC03:13
*** soren has quit IRC03:13
*** davidhadas has quit IRC03:13
*** clarkb has quit IRC03:13
*** morganfainberg has quit IRC03:13
*** chmouel has quit IRC03:13
*** swifterdarrell_ is now known as swifterdarrell03:13
*** EntropyWorks_ is now known as EntropyWorks03:13
*** morganfainberg has joined #openstack-meeting03:14
*** sileht has quit IRC03:14
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting03:14
*** HenryG_ has joined #openstack-meeting03:15
*** sileht has joined #openstack-meeting03:15
*** chmouel has joined #openstack-meeting03:15
*** jasondotstar has quit IRC03:16
*** jasondotstar has joined #openstack-meeting03:16
*** krtaylor has joined #openstack-meeting03:17
*** dragondm has joined #openstack-meeting03:17
*** HenryG has quit IRC03:19
*** stevemar has joined #openstack-meeting03:22
*** vkmc has quit IRC03:31
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC03:39
*** stevebaker_ has quit IRC03:40
*** stevebaker has joined #openstack-meeting03:40
*** stevebaker is now known as stevebaker_03:40
*** stevebaker_ is now known as stevebaker03:40
*** prasek has joined #openstack-meeting03:46
*** kebray has joined #openstack-meeting03:47
*** henrynash has quit IRC03:58
*** SergeyLukjanov has joined #openstack-meeting04:09
*** maoy has quit IRC04:16
*** Mandell has joined #openstack-meeting04:19
*** garyk has quit IRC04:21
*** Tross has quit IRC04:25
*** bdpayne has joined #openstack-meeting04:30
*** stevemar has quit IRC04:35
*** MarkAtwood has joined #openstack-meeting04:36
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting04:39
*** colinmcnamara has quit IRC04:41
*** asalkeld has joined #openstack-meeting04:49
*** boris-42 has joined #openstack-meeting04:51
*** Tross has joined #openstack-meeting04:53
*** ayurchen has joined #openstack-meeting04:54
*** emagana has joined #openstack-meeting04:54
*** hemanth has joined #openstack-meeting04:55
*** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away04:57
*** hemanth has quit IRC04:58
*** lloydde has joined #openstack-meeting04:58
*** hemanth has joined #openstack-meeting04:58
*** marun has quit IRC05:05
*** neelashah has quit IRC05:05
*** SergeyLukjanov has quit IRC05:06
*** kebray has quit IRC05:07
*** sacharya1 has quit IRC05:07
*** fungi has joined #openstack-meeting05:09
*** anniec has quit IRC05:10
*** clarkb has joined #openstack-meeting05:11
*** markpeek has quit IRC05:15
*** boris-42 has quit IRC05:22
*** garyk has joined #openstack-meeting05:24
*** bdpayne has quit IRC05:26
*** jcoufal has joined #openstack-meeting05:29
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting05:30
*** danwent has joined #openstack-meeting05:51
*** Mandell has quit IRC05:52
*** SergeyLukjanov has joined #openstack-meeting05:55
*** jecarey has quit IRC05:56
*** MarkAtwood has quit IRC05:58
*** egallen has joined #openstack-meeting06:01
*** dperaza has quit IRC06:04
*** amyt has quit IRC06:07
*** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net06:07
*** davidhad- is now known as davidhadas06:12
*** danwent has quit IRC06:18
*** egallen has quit IRC06:20
*** nati_ueno has quit IRC06:20
*** ttrifonov is now known as ttrifonov_zZzz06:23
*** ttrifonov_zZzz is now known as ttrifonov06:25
*** koolhead17 has quit IRC06:27
*** emagana has quit IRC06:33
*** afazekas has joined #openstack-meeting06:33
*** sushils has quit IRC06:33
*** boris-42 has joined #openstack-meeting06:38
*** lloydde has quit IRC06:39
*** jtomasek has joined #openstack-meeting06:44
*** marun has joined #openstack-meeting06:49
*** boris-42 has quit IRC06:56
*** boris-42 has joined #openstack-meeting06:57
*** shardy_afk is now known as shardy06:58
*** SergeyLukjanov has quit IRC06:59
*** IlyaE has quit IRC07:00
*** flaper87 has joined #openstack-meeting07:00
*** asalkeld has quit IRC07:03
*** flaper87 has quit IRC07:03
*** asalkeld has joined #openstack-meeting07:03
*** garyk has quit IRC07:03
*** garyk has joined #openstack-meeting07:04
*** flaper87 has joined #openstack-meeting07:05
*** mrunge has joined #openstack-meeting07:06
*** swann has joined #openstack-meeting07:07
*** marun has quit IRC07:12
*** marun has joined #openstack-meeting07:14
*** egallen has joined #openstack-meeting07:19
*** ijw has joined #openstack-meeting07:41
*** jhenner has joined #openstack-meeting07:46
*** lloydde has joined #openstack-meeting07:50
*** lloydde has quit IRC07:54
*** jhenner has quit IRC07:55
*** afazekas_ has joined #openstack-meeting07:59
*** afazekas has quit IRC07:59
*** psedlak has joined #openstack-meeting08:00
*** jhenner has joined #openstack-meeting08:00
*** jcoufal has quit IRC08:01
*** jhenner has quit IRC08:01
*** jhenner has joined #openstack-meeting08:02
*** henrynash has joined #openstack-meeting08:07
*** jang has quit IRC08:09
*** jang has joined #openstack-meeting08:11
*** alexheneveld has joined #openstack-meeting08:12
*** sushils has joined #openstack-meeting08:15
*** rwsu has quit IRC08:23
*** johnthetubaguy has joined #openstack-meeting08:30
*** skraynev has joined #openstack-meeting08:38
*** skraynev has quit IRC08:38
*** mkollaro has joined #openstack-meeting08:41
*** ndipanov has joined #openstack-meeting08:45
*** jhenner has quit IRC08:51
*** psedlak has quit IRC08:56
*** afazekas_ has quit IRC08:56
*** jhenner has joined #openstack-meeting09:01
*** psedlak has joined #openstack-meeting09:01
*** jang has quit IRC09:05
*** johnthetubaguy has quit IRC09:06
*** jang has joined #openstack-meeting09:08
*** johnthetubaguy has joined #openstack-meeting09:08
*** SergeyLukjanov has joined #openstack-meeting09:11
*** rwsu has joined #openstack-meeting09:11
*** psedlak_ has joined #openstack-meeting09:13
*** jhenner has quit IRC09:13
*** jhenner has joined #openstack-meeting09:14
*** psedlak has quit IRC09:17
*** jcoufal has joined #openstack-meeting09:22
*** afazekas has joined #openstack-meeting09:23
*** egallen_ has joined #openstack-meeting10:02
*** egallen has quit IRC10:05
*** egallen_ is now known as egallen10:05
*** jcoufal has quit IRC10:19
*** egallen has quit IRC10:23
*** prasek has quit IRC10:26
*** kmartin has quit IRC10:27
*** yaguang has quit IRC10:27
*** ladquin_away is now known as ladquin10:32
*** hanney has joined #openstack-meeting10:34
*** thatsdone has joined #openstack-meeting10:43
*** woodspa has joined #openstack-meeting10:56
*** resker has joined #openstack-meeting10:56
*** esker has quit IRC10:59
*** dprince has joined #openstack-meeting11:00
*** Mandell has joined #openstack-meeting11:12
*** noslzzp has quit IRC11:15
*** noslzzp has joined #openstack-meeting11:18
*** martine_ has joined #openstack-meeting11:22
*** thatsdone has quit IRC11:25
*** jcoufal has joined #openstack-meeting11:25
*** pcm___ has joined #openstack-meeting11:25
*** SamuelB has joined #openstack-meeting11:34
*** avishayb has joined #openstack-meeting11:35
*** shengjie has joined #openstack-meeting11:38
*** SergeyLu_ has joined #openstack-meeting11:38
*** SergeyLukjanov has quit IRC11:41
*** esker has joined #openstack-meeting11:42
*** resker has quit IRC11:45
*** dprince has quit IRC11:45
*** dansmith has quit IRC11:47
*** dansmith has joined #openstack-meeting11:48
*** soren_ has quit IRC11:49
*** soren_ has joined #openstack-meeting11:49
*** soren_ is now known as soren11:49
*** dansmith has quit IRC11:50
*** dansmith has joined #openstack-meeting11:52
*** maurosr has quit IRC11:54
*** maurosr has joined #openstack-meeting11:55
*** martine_ has quit IRC11:56
*** dansmith has quit IRC12:00
*** dhellmann-away is now known as dhellmann12:06
*** adalbas has joined #openstack-meeting12:09
*** rnirmal has joined #openstack-meeting12:13
*** niska` has quit IRC12:19
*** martine_ has joined #openstack-meeting12:20
*** vkmc has joined #openstack-meeting12:22
*** vkmc has joined #openstack-meeting12:22
*** mrunge has quit IRC12:25
*** niska has joined #openstack-meeting12:27
*** dhellmann has quit IRC12:31
*** marun has quit IRC12:32
*** dolphm has joined #openstack-meeting12:33
*** uvirtbot` is now known as uvirtbot12:35
*** sandywalsh has quit IRC12:38
*** hartsocks has joined #openstack-meeting12:38
*** jtomasek has quit IRC12:42
*** martine_ has quit IRC12:44
*** dosaboy_ has joined #openstack-meeting12:45
*** mkollaro has quit IRC12:49
*** sandywalsh has joined #openstack-meeting12:51
*** dosaboy_ has quit IRC12:53
*** ijw has quit IRC12:55
*** ijw has joined #openstack-meeting12:55
*** shang has quit IRC12:56
*** dprince has joined #openstack-meeting12:58
*** Baoli has joined #openstack-meeting13:01
*** dolphm has quit IRC13:05
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting13:05
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting13:07
*** dolphm has joined #openstack-meeting13:08
*** Brian_ has joined #openstack-meeting13:08
*** SergeyLu_ has quit IRC13:08
*** jtomasek has joined #openstack-meeting13:09
*** egallen has joined #openstack-meeting13:11
*** jecarey has joined #openstack-meeting13:12
*** shengjie has quit IRC13:15
*** lbragstad has quit IRC13:17
*** markmcclain has quit IRC13:18
*** changbl has quit IRC13:18
*** ayoung has joined #openstack-meeting13:18
*** radez_g0n3 is now known as radez13:23
*** eglynn has joined #openstack-meeting13:25
*** neelashah has joined #openstack-meeting13:26
*** Baoli has quit IRC13:29
*** baoli has joined #openstack-meeting13:29
*** mdomsch has joined #openstack-meeting13:30
*** dperaza has joined #openstack-meeting13:32
*** digitalsanctum has joined #openstack-meeting13:34
*** markpeek has quit IRC13:35
*** martine_ has joined #openstack-meeting13:37
*** dwcramer has joined #openstack-meeting13:41
*** egallen has quit IRC13:41
*** litong has joined #openstack-meeting13:41
*** lbragstad has joined #openstack-meeting13:42
*** terriyu has joined #openstack-meeting13:43
*** matiu has quit IRC13:44
*** sandywalsh has quit IRC13:45
*** amyt has quit IRC13:46
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting13:47
*** SergeyLukjanov has joined #openstack-meeting13:47
*** markmcclain has joined #openstack-meeting13:47
*** mkollaro has joined #openstack-meeting13:49
*** jasondot_ has joined #openstack-meeting13:49
*** esker has quit IRC13:49
*** eharney has joined #openstack-meeting13:50
*** eharney has quit IRC13:50
*** eharney has joined #openstack-meeting13:50
*** alexheneveld has quit IRC13:53
*** shengjie has joined #openstack-meeting13:58
*** ralekseenkov has joined #openstack-meeting13:58
*** shengjie_home has joined #openstack-meeting13:59
markmcclainavishayb: around?13:59
avishaybI am here13:59
markmcclainso we're missing roman and sam right?14:00
enikanorov-wroman is here14:00
obondarevhi guys14:00
SamuelBSam is gere14:00
*** mdomsch has quit IRC14:00
markmcclainalright let's start14:01
markmcclain#startmeeting lbaas14:01
openstackMeeting started Thu May 16 14:01:23 2013 UTC.  The chair is markmcclain. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: lbaas)"14:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'lbaas'14:01
*** stevemar has joined #openstack-meeting14:01
*** sandywalsh has joined #openstack-meeting14:02
enikanorov-wdoes everyone agree with agendai've just sent?14:02
ogelbukhlink it, enikanorov-w14:02
*** hnarkaytis has joined #openstack-meeting14:02
markmcclainI got a copy but I liked to cover the items in a slightly different order14:02
enikanorov-wogelbukh: that was in email to primary audience, sorry :)14:02
*** sacharya has joined #openstack-meeting14:02
enikanorov-wmarkmcclain: sure14:02
SamuelB1) LBaaS development process  2) multi-vendor-support-for-lbaas blueprint implementation:  and  3) LBaaS plan for Havana.14:03
*** Youcef has joined #openstack-meeting14:03
enikanorov-whi Youcef14:03
markmcclainCan we cover 1) LBaaS Dev Process, 2) LBaaS plan for Havana 3) conflicting reviews 4) Code reorganization14:03
enikanorov-wof course14:03
YoucefHi eugene14:03
markmcclainis everyone ok with that order?14:04
avishaybI am OK with the order14:04
*** shengjie_home has quit IRC14:05
markmcclain#topic LBaaS Development Process14:05
*** openstack changes topic to "LBaaS Development Process (Meeting topic: lbaas)"14:05
enikanorov-wok, markmcclain you have something on (1)  or can I stert?14:05
markmcclainI wanted highlight that we've got a BP14:06
markmcclainthat contains this doc:
markmcclainenikanorov-w: you can start14:06
*** noslzzp has quit IRC14:07
*** sgandikota has joined #openstack-meeting14:07
enikanorov-wok, so in fact we need to discuss the process as we got in the case where we have overlapping patches for the same blueprint14:07
*** hemanth has joined #openstack-meeting14:08
enikanorov-wand I wanded to propose that everyone who is willingtoimplement a major feature post it's brief design on ML first14:08
enikanorov-wso others could take a look and discuss14:08
*** noslzzp has joined #openstack-meeting14:08
enikanorov-wthat was done on most major features14:08
markmcclainenikanorov-w: that is generally the purpose of blueprints14:08
avishaybI have posted this BP to the ML14:09
enikanorov-wI think having approved blueprint doesn't automatically mean everyone agrees on the design or implementation14:09
enikanorov-wit's rather acceptance into project plan14:09
*** otherwiseguy has joined #openstack-meeting14:09
enikanorov-wthat leads to a case where major design questions start to be discussed in gerrit, whish is not productive14:10
*** dhellmann has joined #openstack-meeting14:10
enikanorov-wSo our team would like to see implementer participating in ML discussions and corresponding meetings (we already had one)14:11
SamuelBI actually disagree. For this specifci case. 1. we had this discussion prior to the summit 2. we have discussed this in the summit and agreed that this should be done in baby steps14:11
SamuelB3. based on that Avishay has published the BP14:12
SamuelBAnd last the change was planned as small to make sure it is done and ready for H1 so that vendors could start to implement14:13
enikanorov-wI think we'll get there when we discuss patches14:13
*** Pattabi has joined #openstack-meeting14:13
SamuelBThis as far as I understnad the correct way to go.14:13
enikanorov-wright now the question is generic: would you agree that it's more productive to discuss on the meeting and ML than on gerrit?14:14
SamuelBmarkmcclain: did I miss anything?14:14
*** Pattabi has quit IRC14:15
markmcclainSamuelB: you're correct on the flow14:15
enikanorov-wso guys, you think, ML and meetings are needless? :)14:15
*** garyTh has joined #openstack-meeting14:15
markmcclainenikanorov-w: no both are useful14:16
*** Pattabi has joined #openstack-meeting14:16
*** sacharya has quit IRC14:16
enikanorov-wok, then our team would expect that everyone interested in lbaas would participate in public discussion14:16
YoucefIf there are any design decisions to be discussed, I prefer them discussed on ML than on gerrit, as I for one don't follow the gerrit reviews closely.14:16
SamuelBWhat was not well understood is how a BL that was approved and got broken down to small bits to make sure we complete it, got a parallel implementation done by  enikanorov-w which tries to achive the first two steps with the addition of Service Types that do not have an approved design and BL as one patch14:17
enikanorov-wSam, i guess that relates to (3), lets discuss it a bit later14:17
markmcclainSo in terms of process14:18
ralekseenkovguys, it's Roman. I think the issue Eugene is having is very simple14:18
ralekseenkovhe would make LBaaS meeting to discuss the code, what should be done and how, and noone would come14:18
SamuelBAs process goes this does not comply yo any process that I am aware of14:18
ralekseenkovthe last one was 11 days ago on Monday14:18
*** esker has joined #openstack-meeting14:18
ralekseenkovso instead of having a productive live chat everyone fights on gerrit14:18
markmcclaindoes every agree on the basic flow?14:19
ralekseenkovI think we should agree that there is a standing meeting and all involved parties attend it14:19
avishaybI did not submit even 1 line of code before I had an approved BP...14:19
markmcclainwe're getting ahead14:19
markmcclainmeetings are next :)14:20
markmcclaingeneral work flow is blueprints are accepted into the project plan14:20
markmcclainand the assignee is responsible for shepherding the blueprint to completion14:21
Youcefis the project plan published somewhere?14:21
enikanorov-wYoucef: yes14:21
enikanorov-wYoucef: thaths how we see it
*** psedlak_ has quit IRC14:21
Youcefenikanorov-w: thx14:22
enikanorov-wI have posted this plan on ML 3 weeks ago btw14:23
markmcclainthat wiki is different from the blueprints14:24
markmcclainthat are in Havana14:24
enikanorov-wso how we may get them accepted? I guess most of them have "proposed milestone" filled14:25
*** ryanpetrello has joined #openstack-meeting14:26
markmcclainI'm the one who accepts them14:26
markmcclainmy understanding was this was the first one to be implemented:14:26
enikanorov-wI was not aware of this BP filed until like 2 weeks ago14:27
enikanorov-wand the plan was created earlier14:27
enikanorov-wso I've added BP later14:28
markmcclainthat blueprint matched my notes from summit which is my I approved it14:28
enikanorov-wthe blueprint is usefull, no questions14:28
enikanorov-whowever splitting it and those baby steps are what needed to be discussed14:29
markmcclainlet's wrap up process and then we can jump to next topics14:30
enikanorov-wi think the plan is just for everyone to consider and discuss14:30
ralekseenkovEugene - the vision for lbaas in havana described on the wiki makes sense IMO. the action item is that you have to follow up with Mark over email and get the rest of the BPs justified, approved & scheduled.14:30
markmcclaingeneral flow is approved blueprints is what the core expects to review14:31
enikanorov-wok, btw, Mark, does launchpad allow you to subscribe for BPs?14:31
enikanorov-wor you have to manually browse for new ones14:31
*** apmelton has joined #openstack-meeting14:32
markmcclainI'm subscribed to all of them14:32
*** IlyaE has joined #openstack-meeting14:33
markmcclainso I get change deltas when items change14:33
SamuelBmarkmcclain: can you please summarize the process?14:33
markmcclainI also regularly review them to make sure the BP is on target for the linked milestone14:33
enikanorov-wlet's move on discussing patches maybe?14:34
markmcclainprocess summary: the sub teams proposes blueprints that get evaluated and then approved for the cycle. The core team expects that the assigned person will be the one responsible for completing the task.14:36
Youcefmarkmcclain: Is the project plan above (wiki), the approved plan of record for LBaaS (are all approved blueprints for H there)?14:37
markmcclainYoucef: No.  It's a nice overview, but the blueprints are the authoritative record.14:37
SamuelBI was actualy not aware on this wiki untill now14:37
*** ccrouch has left #openstack-meeting14:38
enikanorov-wok, let's move to the patches14:39
SamuelBI do follow the blueprints for H14:39
markmcclainBlueprints that are approved when there's consensus.  If you disagree with the approval two options 1) reach out to the assignee to discuss concerns. 2) Reach out to me.14:39
markmcclainSo that's the process14:39
markmcclainLet' move onto the current plan14:39
markmcclain#topic Havana LBaaS Plan14:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Havana LBaaS Plan (Meeting topic: lbaas)"14:39
markmcclainThe one item that we need achieve is a working LBaaS implementation14:40
*** Youcef has quit IRC14:41
enikanorov-wmarkmcclain: can you review that wiki page and send out your thoughts?14:42
markmcclainmy general thoughts are the same that I've been discussing with both the FW and VPN teams14:43
markmcclainwe need simple first14:43
SamuelBenikanorov: please send the wiki on the ML. there were a couple of other items discussed at the summit that do not appear there14:43
enikanorov-wSamuelB: the plan was posted on ML14:44
markmcclainWhile service types and multi-vendor support is eventually where we want to go14:44
markmcclainwe need to get working single vendor implemetations first14:44
enikanorov-wmarkmcclain: current reference impl is working14:44
*** Youcef has joined #openstack-meeting14:44
enikanorov-wi think it is a good starting point14:44
*** epende has joined #openstack-meeting14:44
enikanorov-wand can be treated as 'single vendor'14:44
*** emagana has joined #openstack-meeting14:45
*** Guest14773 has joined #openstack-meeting14:45
enikanorov-wso i think that goal is almost reached.14:45
markmcclainenikanorov-w: it works, but we don't have any vendors who've written to that interface14:46
PattabiCan we start the vendor implementation integration  ?14:46
*** kebray has joined #openstack-meeting14:46
enikanorov-wok, let's discuss patches, because it seems to be quite related to what we're talking about14:46
*** flwang has joined #openstack-meeting14:46
*** jagadish has joined #openstack-meeting14:46
Pattabimarkmcclain: we have been waiting for the framework to be available to integrate our vendor impl14:47
*** n0ano has joined #openstack-meeting14:47
enikanorov-wso, let me start still14:47
markmcclainPattabi: that's is part of what we are discussing14:47
markmcclainJust wanted to give everyone warning that we've got about 12 mins until Ceilometer has the room14:48
enikanorov-wwe have two patches which are technically complimentary14:48
*** epende has quit IRC14:48
enikanorov-wand we would definitely agree on the code if it would consist of abstract_Driver and noop_driver14:49
*** epende has joined #openstack-meeting14:49
enikanorov-wother parts which introduce additional plugin can be omitted.14:49
*** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away14:50
markmcclainenikanorov-w: I'm not sure they are fully complimentary14:50
enikanorov-wmarkmcclain: by intent they are not14:50
markmcclainI'd like to see us focused on getting the driver done first14:50
enikanorov-wbecause avishayb tries to address in new plugin what i've addressed in existing plugin14:50
markmcclainthat way Pattabi and others can begin work14:50
enikanorov-wok, abstract driver is good,14:51
enikanorov-wdriver for reference impl follows the interface14:51
markmcclainenikanorov-w: it does, but the other proposal seeks to tweak that interface a bit14:51
markmcclainI made a few design decisions that were HAProxy specific14:52
enikanorov-wmarkmcclain: the driver for the reference impl will inherit from abstract, obviously14:52
enikanorov-wmarkmcclain: i tried to make them mor generic14:52
*** kebray has quit IRC14:52
enikanorov-wwould be nice if you could review it14:52
enikanorov-walso, we've tested it with devstack for different scenarious and got it working14:53
enikanorov-w(most logic is just unchanged)14:53
*** amyt has quit IRC14:53
Pattabiwhich patch should be used : or
*** kmartin has joined #openstack-meeting14:53
*** sacharya has joined #openstack-meeting14:54
*** vkmc has quit IRC14:54
*** emagana has quit IRC14:54
*** marun has joined #openstack-meeting14:54
markmcclainI think enikanorov-w is referring to 2828914:54
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting14:54
markmcclainI've read over both14:55
*** nealph has joined #openstack-meeting14:55
*** gordc has joined #openstack-meeting14:55
markmcclainbut withheld comments because I wanted to talk with everyone first14:55
markmcclainfor H1.. we really need to focus on the driver interface14:56
enikanorov-wok, so our opinion that we may just take abstract driver from avishay's patch, and derive the lbaas reference impl driver from that.14:56
enikanorov-wmarkmcclain: no objections14:56
enikanorov-wbut i would object agains introducing different plugin14:56
*** sgandikota has quit IRC14:57
*** sudorandom has joined #openstack-meeting14:57
enikanorov-walso I think even both patches together are now so big and could make it into h-114:57
*** lpabon has joined #openstack-meeting14:57
avishaybThere is no diffrent plugin - after step1 we will end up with 1 plugin14:57
enikanorov-wespecially because you are the author of 99% of code of my patch14:58
*** danspraggins has joined #openstack-meeting14:58
avishaybGuys - i do not see any reason to hold my work (steps 0 & 1) - do you?14:58
dhellmannare you guys going to be wrapping up soon? we'll need the room soon for ceilometer14:58
markmcclaindhellmann: yeah we'll wrap up14:59
enikanorov-wavishayb: i think driver interface definitely has a value, we need to merge it14:59
YoucefI think we all agree that we want one LBaaS plugin, and each vendor develop their own driver to the common driver interface.14:59
markmcclainOk.. let me look at reviews and follow up with everyone the ML15:00
enikanorov-wmarkmcclain: thanks.15:00
markmcclainwe have to yield the room15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"15:00
*** jeblair has quit IRC15:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 16 15:00:15 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:00
openstackMinutes (text):
jd__#startmeeting ceilometer15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu May 16 15:00:30 2013 UTC.  The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
*** fujioka has joined #openstack-meeting15:00
*** Pattabi has quit IRC15:00
*** Guest14773 has quit IRC15:00
jd__hi everyone15:01
flwanghi jd__15:01
*** SamuelB has quit IRC15:01
*** amyt has quit IRC15:01
*** avishayb has quit IRC15:01
jd__as I already said, big agenda today, so let's try to focus :)15:01
*** jeblair has joined #openstack-meeting15:01
*** Youcef has quit IRC15:01
jd__#topic Last week action: jd__ and dhellmann to write formal statement about limiting support for pre-grizzly versions of ceilometer15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Last week action: jd__ and dhellmann to write formal statement about limiting support for pre-grizzly versions of ceilometer (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:01
* jd__ whispers15:01
dhellmannI haven't had a chance to look at that :-(15:02
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting15:02
jd__I'll keep in #action too15:02
jd__we can sync at a certain time if needed dhellmann15:02
jd__#action dhellmann and jd__ to write formal statement about limiting support for pre-grizzly versions of ceilometer15:02
dhellmannjd__: yeah, we can talk about it via email15:03
jd__dhellmann: works for me :)15:03
jd__#topic Last week action: blueprint-owners, set milestones on all blueprints15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Last week action: blueprint-owners, set milestones on all blueprints (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:03
*** thomasem has joined #openstack-meeting15:03
jd__so it's almost ok now15:03
*** mrutkows has joined #openstack-meeting15:03
jd__and we're ambitious :)15:04
jd__#topic Tracking of bug #1176017, releasing of MIM15:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Tracking of bug #1176017, releasing of MIM (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:04
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1176017 in ceilometer "Reinstate MongoDB testing with ming" [Critical,Fix committed]
jd__dhellmann: I think this is done right?15:04
*** markmcclain has quit IRC15:04
dhellmannyes, I think that just landed earlier today15:05
*** amyt has quit IRC15:05
gordcawesome! finally have the mongo tests running again.15:05
jd__yeah that's reaaaallly great15:05
jd__thanks dhellmann for the good job :)15:06
dhellmannasalkeld made some great improvements to the tests lately, too, and we're trying to get those all working well15:06
nealphdhellmann: thumbs up15:06
*** hemanth has quit IRC15:06
dhellmannmoving to testr in particular will let us use scenarios, and not have to subclass for different configurations15:06
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting15:06
dhellmannwill be good for the db tests15:06
jd__dhellmann: yeah I remember you talking about this to me15:07
dhellmannwe'll get that in soon, but maybe not before h115:07
jd__(and me never having time to dive into it)15:07
dhellmannhaving some issues with the notifier tests under testr15:07
* jd__ thumbs up15:07
jd__#topic Review Havana-1 milestone15:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Havana-1 milestone (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:08
jd__talking about h1, let's take a look15:08
jd__we seem on good tracks15:08
*** ralekseenkov has quit IRC15:08
jd__I'm only worried about monitoring-physical-devices, I emailed Toni this week to have status15:09
jd__we're supposed to have the patchset before the end of the week15:09
dhellmannwhat's the difference between "fix committed" and "implemented" status?15:09
jd__I'm very worried because I've the feeling it's going to be huged15:09
jd__dhellmann: bug vs blueprint?15:09
dhellmannyeah, I don't know if there's going to be time to review that before the deadline15:09
dhellmannjd__: aha, yeah15:09
jd__so I'm waiting for monitoring-physical-devices, and we'll see :(15:10
jd__we may have to postpone to h2 if that doesn't arrive soon enough15:10
dhellmannis it better to just move that to h2, or wait and see when we get the patch? I *really* don't want to rush something big15:10
sandywalshabout 2wks to havana-1, yes?15:10
*** maoy has joined #openstack-meeting15:10
jd__I've still no idea how the patchset is going to be and I'm scared15:10
dhellmannyeah, h1 deadline is may 3015:10
eglynnyeah punt to h2 sounds sensible if there's doubt15:11
flwangjd__ is it possible to let Toni submit some patch for review?15:11
gordcyeah, the blueprint reads like its a big patch.15:11
*** xingzhou has joined #openstack-meeting15:11
dhellmannthe patch can go in at any time, but if we move the target to h2 now then that's a signal we aren't going to rush the review15:11
*** psedlak has joined #openstack-meeting15:11
jd__flwang: it's so possible that I begged him to, but he said "end of the week" :)15:11
eglynndhellmann: agreed15:11
flwanghaha, fine :)15:12
jd__dhellmann: I'll wait tomorrow: if no patch or big patch, I'll move to h2 -- how does that sound?15:12
flwangbased on my experience, it's a system management topic, I think it's a huge work15:12
*** jagadish has quit IRC15:12
dhellmannjd__: that works for me15:12
jd__#agreed jd__ to rescheduled monitoring-physical-devices if the patchset is too big or not sent to review before 17th may 201315:13
*** llu-laptop has joined #openstack-meeting15:14
jd__don't forget to review
jd__it's for h115:14
*** hemna has joined #openstack-meeting15:15
jd__#topic Releasing Ceilometer 2013.1.115:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Releasing Ceilometer 2013.1.1 (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:15
* dhellmann thinks jd__ should probably respond to comments15:15
*** boris-42 has quit IRC15:15
jd__dhellmann: I missed that then :(15:15
*** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net15:15
jd__I did, my bad, will do, pff15:16
jd__about 2013.1.1, so it's going to be done soon finally15:16
eglynnfor 2013.1.1 all the backports were done at the 11th hour, prolly should try to be more "ongoing" on this for 2013.1.215:16
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting15:16
eglynni.e. for each bug fix you get landed on master15:16
eglynnthink about backporting potential15:17
eglynnand tag the bug if it's a good candidate15:17
dhellmannreviewers, too15:17
dhellmanneglynn: tag it in launchpad?15:17
eglynneven better, propose the backport yourself if it's a trivial cherrypick15:17
eglynndhellmann: yep, grizzly-backport-potential15:17
* jd__ nods15:18
*** kebray has joined #openstack-meeting15:18
dhellmann#info tag backportable bugs with grizzly-backport-potential15:18
*** HenryG_ has quit IRC15:18
*** changbl has joined #openstack-meeting15:19
eglynn^^^ good summary of what's suitable for the stable branch15:19
uvirtboteglynn: Error: "^^" is not a valid command.15:19
*** jaypipes has quit IRC15:20
*** hnarkaytis has quit IRC15:20
gordceglynn, thanks for link. very helpful.15:20
jd__#topic Idea: using URL as publishing targets formats15:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Idea: using URL as publishing targets formats (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:21
jd__Rational: with the UDP publisher, we may have several UDP targets, so we need more than one option for the whole plugin; that wasn't needed for the RPC because we don't specify the host on Ceilometer side15:21
dhellmannseems reasonable to me15:21
jd__thank you dhellmann, next topic then15:21
* jd__ smiles15:21
dhellmannwe should come up with conventions15:21
dhellmannbut not in this meeting :-)15:22
jd__you mean, about agreeing with my ideas, or about URL? :-)15:22
eglynnso is the idea to invent a URI scheme for this?15:22
jd__eglynn: udp://host:port doesn't look like a big invention15:22
jd__rather than just 'udp' as it is now15:22
eglynnjd__: true that :)15:23
*** bdpayne has joined #openstack-meeting15:23
* eglynn wondering if there's prior art on this ...15:23
jd__meter would be replaced by meter:// in a first time -- later we could use real RPC URL15:23
sandywalshwhat about destinations with no "standard" protocol?15:23
sandywalshwhat would a graphite URI look like?15:23
jd__sandywalsh: graphite://whatyouwant15:23
dhellmannthe scheme in the url should be the plugin name in our publisher plugins15:24
jd__sandywalsh: basically it would bea <publishername>://<whatever>15:24
dhellmannand indeed, we might use statsd instead of udp, since those messages have to be formatted in a particular way, iirc15:24
jd__dhellmann: exactly15:24
sandywalshwhen why bother making it look like a URI, you could use any separator15:24
jd__UDP doesn't tell you how I format the data inside15:24
jd__sandywalsh: because 1. it's standard 2. it's going to be used by oslo.rpc at some point it seems15:24
mrutkowsthe use of a actual protocol (scheme) for URL and URI scheme should not be confused15:25
*** jtomasek has quit IRC15:25
dhellmannwe do this for the storage connection strings, too15:26
* sandywalsh defers :)15:26
jd__yeah, everybody does it for storage that's true :)15:26
*** danwent has joined #openstack-meeting15:26
jd__ok, so I'll work on that at some point since it's going to be quickly a problem for UDP15:26
dragondmyah, that is the way, sqlalchemy, etc does cnnection string15:26
jd__#agreed use URL for publisher target formats in pipeline15:27
mrutkowsURI schemes can describe how path segments could be used for storage, but that is separate from protocol (transmission)15:27
jd__mrutkows: the point being?15:28
mrutkowsif u use udp scheme to describe transport protocol, it should not necessarily imply how the data should be stored15:28
dhellmannit won't15:29
*** ryanpetr_ has joined #openstack-meeting15:29
dhellmanninterpreting anything other than the scheme in the url will be the responsibility of the publisher plugin15:29
mrutkowsthanks )15:29
eglynnslightly related point ...15:29
eglynnsqlalchemy/swift etc. also use the URI to carry credentials15:29
eglynnwould anything of that ilk be required for UDP?15:29
eglynn(or do we rely on message payload signing?)15:29
jd__eglynn: not at this point, maybe later yes15:29
jd__eglynn: we can use query parameter in URI scheme15:30
eglynnjd__: fair enough15:30
*** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away15:30
*** markmcclain has joined #openstack-meeting15:30
jd__#topic Adding Gordon Chung to core reviewer team15:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding Gordon Chung to core reviewer team (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:30
*** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net15:30
gordc... should i leave the room for this?15:30
jd__lol, no15:31
eglynngordc: stay! :)15:31
jd__there's nothing to be done, I think the delay will pass tomorrow and I'll be able to add you since nobody objected15:31
gordci'll close my eyes. be honest ppl.lol15:31
litong@gordc, congrats.15:31
mrutkowscongrats Gordon15:32
llu-laptopgordc: congrats15:32
eglynngordc: welcome to the inner sanctum! :)15:32
gordcthanks for the support folks!15:32
flwang@gordc, congrats15:32
jd__hm I think I'll need nijaba_ on this one, I don't have the rights to do that lol15:32
dhellmanncongrats and welcome, gordc!15:32
jd__nijaba_: LET IT GO! GIVE ME MY RIGHTS!15:32
*** ryanpetrello has quit IRC15:32
gordcjd__, lol15:33
* gordc will try not to muck this up.15:33
xingzhougordc, con!15:33
jd__#topic Consider use of Diamond instead of the CM Pollster15:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Consider use of Diamond instead of the CM Pollster (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:33
jd__sandywalsh: floor is yours15:34
sandywalshI'm going to reserve further comment for now. Look at Diamond and consider that it already does what we want. ...15:34
sandywalshI'm going to be working on the notifier next, so I'll have a more informed opinion at the next meeting15:34
sandywalshI'm a big fan of two things:15:35
sandywalsh1. not duplicating effort15:35
sandywalsh2. the trend that the "monitoring stack" is a set of Input-Do Something-Output components that fit together15:35
*** colinmcnamara has joined #openstack-meeting15:35
sandywalshwhich includes graphite, statsd, reimann, etc15:35
sandywalshso I don't think we should be trying to built the entire stack ourselves15:36
sandywalshthomasem, yep15:36
*** shengjie has quit IRC15:36
sandywalshso, something to ponder :)15:36
dragondmYah, +1 to not duplicating effort.15:36
eglynnwhat about the identity issue, is diamond extensible to reporting native openstack UUIDs?15:36
dragondm...and not re-inventing bugs15:36
jd__sandywalsh: ok, then feel free to re-add this to the agenda whenever you've enough information to discuss it15:37
eglynn(for resources, users, tenants etc.)15:37
gordcthomasem, thanks, was just going to ask for a link.15:37
thomasemgordc: you bet15:37
eglynnwell mainly for resources, I guess users and tenants could be figured out in a round-about way15:37
sandywalsheglynn, I see it mostly as a tool for hypervisor/cpu/disk/etc polling ... not for openstack internals15:37
sandywalsheglynn, I see notifications -> events -> meters for that15:37
eglynnsandywalsh: a-ha, OK15:38
dhellmannwe need a way to collect data so our HPC customers can charge for %CPU of the host box (not the VM)15:38
sandywalsheglynn, also, it's host-side, not instance/user-side ... but I suppose it could be too.15:38
dhellmanndiamond doesn't know who owns the vm consuming that cpu15:38
dragondmit's easy enough to report the instanceid.15:39
sandywalshdhellmann, so, that would be something we would have to figure out anyway, so perhaps we would need a new diamond collector for that15:39
nealphanyone know if this is overlap with healthnmon capability?15:39
dhellmannsandywalsh: our current CPU collector already does this15:39
eglynnyep, so we'd need to add that info somewhere in the pipeline15:39
sandywalshdhellmann, so convert it to be a diamond module and leverage the strength of that community15:39
sandywalshthere is a counter-argument ... which depends on the architecture of the multi-publisher.15:40
*** maurosr has quit IRC15:40
dhellmannif someone wants to do that, that's fine15:40
dhellmannI'm just trying to make sure we understand the requirements15:40
dhellmannit's not just "get the cpu utilization"15:40
sandywalshand that, potentially we are building a proper input->do_something->output widget15:40
dhellmannit has to be tied to the instance owner for billing15:41
dhellmannit's not just about monitoring15:41
jd__if you can't generate meters based on the Counter format we defined, it's basically useless15:41
sandywalshdhellmann, depends on how you tackle the problem of CPU usage. If the hypervisor allows you to cap cpu based on flavor. But that's a longer discussion15:42
dhellmannlike I said, I don't care if we change this, but it has to do what we do now, not just collect monitoring data15:42
dhellmannwe can't ignore that requirement15:42
sandywalshjd__, by that logic we can't use ceilometer with any of the existing monitoring stack tools out there15:43
dhellmannsandywalsh: that depends entirely on whether you view ceilometer as the destination of data, or the source of data15:43
sandywalshdhellmann, agreed ... but I think the delta of effort is smaller than having to write all these collectors/handlers over again15:43
sandywalshdhellmann, it should be both15:43
dhellmannI thought we agreed that for monitoring, we would be a source but not a destination15:43
*** jaypipes has joined #openstack-meeting15:43
dhellmannfor metering we are a destination15:43
*** maurosr has joined #openstack-meeting15:44
eglynnjd__: if it gives enough information to potentially *map* to the counter format, then that could work, no?15:44
dhellmannand for alarming, which is a subset of the monitoring data that's also tied to customer ids in a way that other tools don't do15:44
sandywalshif it's input->do_something->output as the core architecture, there is no real limitation on that15:44
dhellmannthe limitation is whether the thing collecting the data has all of the metadata, too15:44
jd__eglynn: sure!15:45
dhellmannbut we're running out of time in this meeting15:45
sandywalshagain ... just planting a seed for thought :)15:45
jd__yeah, there's no harm in that :)15:45
jd__#topic Open discussion15:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:45
eglynn2013.1.1 just released!15:46
eglynnprops to apevec!15:47
jd__anything else or should I wrap up?15:48
eglynnnowt else from me15:48
* dhellmann has nothing to add15:49
*** markwash has joined #openstack-meeting15:49
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"15:49
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 16 15:49:57 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:49
jd__thanks guys!15:49
openstackMinutes (text):
*** amyt has quit IRC15:50
*** markpeek has quit IRC15:50
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting15:50
*** gordc has left #openstack-meeting15:50
dhellmannthanks, everyone15:50
*** thomasem has left #openstack-meeting15:50
*** epende has quit IRC15:51
*** ndipanov has quit IRC15:53
*** Brian_ has quit IRC15:53
*** llu-laptop has quit IRC15:55
*** esker has quit IRC15:56
*** danspraggins has quit IRC15:57
*** markwash has quit IRC15:57
*** romcheg has joined #openstack-meeting15:58
*** markwash has joined #openstack-meeting15:59
*** rpodolyaka has joined #openstack-meeting16:01
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting16:01
*** ewindisch has joined #openstack-meeting16:01
*** amyt has quit IRC16:02
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting16:02
*** xingzhou has quit IRC16:04
*** GheRivero has joined #openstack-meeting16:04
*** lloydde has joined #openstack-meeting16:05
romchegPY3 meeting now?16:06
*** gyee has joined #openstack-meeting16:08
romchegewindisch: ping?16:08
ewindischis it time?16:09
romchegI guess it is but I might be confused by summer time change16:10
rpodolyakaaccording to my Google Cal yes :) were there any changes to PY3 meetings time?16:10
ewindischsorry about that16:10
ewindisch#startmeeting python316:10
openstackMeeting started Thu May 16 16:10:43 2013 UTC.  The chair is ewindisch. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:10
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: python3)"16:10
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'python3'16:10
ewindischI just got back from 2 weeks of vacation, so my calendar and brain are a bit wonky16:11
*** colinmcnamara has quit IRC16:11
ewindischI'm still on CST16:11
ewindischI see that Chuck has been pushing a few interesting patches while I've been away.16:11
zulyeah i have been having problems with pymox with python316:12
romchegI've made an investigation on tulip16:13
*** colinmcnamara has joined #openstack-meeting16:13
ewindischromcheg: cool. lets dedicate some time to that, but I'd like to hear about pymox first16:13
ewindisch#topic pymox16:13
*** openstack changes topic to "pymox (Meeting topic: python3)"16:13
*** colinmcnamara has quit IRC16:13
ewindischzul: what is going on? I presume we're now using pymox in unit tests some/every-where?16:14
*** colinmcnamara has joined #openstack-meeting16:14
zulewindisch:  so pymox is basically used everywhere and its quite old so i been looking at python-mock to replace it16:14
zuland im just learning python-mock right now16:15
ewindischzul: Sure. I remember this coming up in the first meeting. How is that going?16:15
romchegI've seen some efforts for making pymox working on py316:15
*** HenryG has joined #openstack-meeting16:15
zulhowever, there is a pymox fork called mimic which is a drop in replacement of pymox16:15
dhellmannmock and mox work differently enough, it seems like changing would probably take a lot of work, wouldn't it?16:16
ewindisch"Experimental python3 support" -- that is somewhat encouraging16:16
zulso last night i tried replacing pymox with mimic in oslo.config and it work great but the version on pypi doesnt support python316:16
zuli was looking at that this morning16:16
dhellmannmaybe we can help them get a release done?16:16
ewindischyeah, sounds like they might just need a bump. Having openstack using it will help eliminate that "experimental" modifier, too.16:17
zuli think that would be a good idea im stuck in UDS this week and started looking at finishing off the mimic python3 port16:17
zulso yeah thats where i am right now16:18
zulcomments or questions?16:18
ewindischinterestingly, mimic seems to have added then removed python3 from the list of supported versions. There might be some regression we don't know about.16:18
dhellmannseems like you're on the right track16:18
ewindischzul: I agree that mimic seems the best option.16:18
*** gyee has quit IRC16:19
ewindisch#link mimic-group
ewindischthanks zul16:20
zulno worries16:20
ewindischLets chat eventlet a bit then...16:20
ewindisch#topic tulip investigation16:20
*** openstack changes topic to "tulip investigation (Meeting topic: python3)"16:20
ewindischromcheg: feedback?16:20
romchegSome bad news comming16:20
*** sarob_ has joined #openstack-meeting16:21
romchegAccording to my investigation tulip cannot be used as an asynchronous I/O framework for openstack16:21
*** mpavlase has joined #openstack-meeting16:21
*** baoli has quit IRC16:21
ewindischromcheg: ever?16:22
dhellmannyeah, you really have to be more detailed than that16:22
romchegWell, we need to either re-write all blocking code in OpenStack itself16:22
rpodolyakathe real problem is SQLAlchemy we heavily rely on. Here is a very interesting answer on StackOverflow from Mike Bayer
ewindischrpodolyaka: we have those same problems with eventlet now, anyway.16:23
*** crank has quit IRC16:24
romchegIt is possible to use eventlet's event loop for fixing that issue but then comes a problem with monkey patching16:24
*** sarob has quit IRC16:24
ewindischa big one problem in whatever we do about eventlet is RPC, but I think we're on the right track with replacing the RPC api. The new API should make it a bit easier to swap out the async library.16:24
*** johnthetubaguy has quit IRC16:25
*** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away16:25
dhellmannI can't find the reference, but they did update the tuplip pep (3156) at some point to remove the part that said eventlet support wasn't going to be included16:25
*** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net16:25
dhellmannsearching mercurial logs16:25
ewindischromcheg: couldn't someone write a monkey-patching module based on tulip?16:25
ewindischbasically an eventlet-like solution that used tulip instead of greenlet?16:25
*** danwent has quit IRC16:26
romchegewindisch: I guess it might be easier to fix eventlet's patching then implement a new one16:26
*** gyee has joined #openstack-meeting16:27
ewindischromcheg: basically the result is that tulip itself won't be a drop-in replacement in and of itself.16:27
ewindischso we still need eventlet fixed/improved or code around tulip that might be just as much or more effort.16:28
ewindischanything else on async lib?16:29
ewindisch#topic grants16:29
*** sarob_ has quit IRC16:29
*** openstack changes topic to "grants (Meeting topic: python3)"16:29
romchegWell, in general a lot of code has to be written/re-written anyway16:30
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting16:30
ewindischI still have no solid ideas for grant requests.16:31
ewindischmy best ideas are generally, "sprints" and "fixing async"16:31
*** gongysh has quit IRC16:31
dhellmannyeah, it seems like we have a lot we can do at this point without needing grants and that when we do need them, the reason will become clear16:32
ewindischanything else, other topics?16:33
*** jlucci has quit IRC16:33
ewindisch#topic open discussion16:33
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: python3)"16:33
ewindischI'm back from vacation now, so I'll be more engaged again, although I have a hefty responsibility on the rpc stuff at present. Again, that will help relieve the eventlet burden there, should we replace it.16:35
dhellmannyeah, the new design should make eventlet less prominent in the rpc api and driver implementations16:35
ewindischzul, others… enjoy UDS.16:35
*** nealph has quit IRC16:36
ewindischoh, I forgot… has anyone made progress on gate tests?16:36
*** sarob has quit IRC16:36
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting16:37
ewindischI'll take that as a 'no'. I'll follow up with Dave Ripton. IIRC, he was looking into it, but I'll check the meeting notes to be sure.16:37
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"16:38
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 16 16:38:01 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:38
ewindischthanks everyone16:38
openstackMinutes (text):
*** jlucci has joined #openstack-meeting16:38
dhellmannewindisch: found it, just too late to show up in the meeting logs:
*** emagana has joined #openstack-meeting16:41
*** sarob has quit IRC16:42
*** garyk has quit IRC16:45
*** crank has joined #openstack-meeting16:45
*** jlucci has quit IRC16:45
*** SergeyLukjanov has quit IRC16:48
*** rpodolyaka has left #openstack-meeting16:48
*** MarkAtwood has joined #openstack-meeting16:50
*** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away16:51
*** lcheng2 has joined #openstack-meeting16:51
*** jrodom has joined #openstack-meeting16:53
*** colinmcnamara has quit IRC16:53
*** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net16:53
*** terry7 has joined #openstack-meeting16:55
*** mrunge has joined #openstack-meeting16:58
*** mlavalle has joined #openstack-meeting16:59
*** fujioka has quit IRC16:59
*** tkammer has joined #openstack-meeting16:59
*** marun has quit IRC17:00
*** neelashah has quit IRC17:00
*** colinmcnamara has joined #openstack-meeting17:00
jaypipesQAers, unite!17:00
jaypipessdague: you wanna #startmeeting?17:01
sdaguebut they cannot take... our freedom!17:01
sdague#startmeeting qa17:01
openstackMeeting started Thu May 16 17:01:16 2013 UTC.  The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:01
jaypipessdague: I was thinking more along Voltron lines... :)17:01
sdagueok, who's here for QA meeting17:01
sdaguejaypipes: awesome :)17:01
mlavalleI am17:01
* tkammer waves17:01
jaypipesdavidkranz is away...17:01
*** nati_ueno has joined #openstack-meeting17:02
sdagueappologies for not pulling an agenda together in advance, was down in NYC at a Linux Foundation event the last couple of days17:02
jaypipesno worries.17:02
sdagueso here's my thoughts on agenda17:02
*** malini has joined #openstack-meeting17:02
sdague1) blueprints17:02
*** marun has joined #openstack-meeting17:02
sdague2) any critical reviews/bugs to look at17:02
sdague3) open meeting17:02
sdague#topic blueprints for H117:03
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints for H1 (Meeting topic: qa)"17:03
sdaguefor me, the launchpad cleanup is coming along good. will finally complete that tomorrow17:04
jaypipesgreat job.17:04
sdaguethe tempest restructure is about 1/3 in, 1/3 in review, and 1/3 to go17:04
sdaguecurrently blocked on this volumes race we uncovered17:04
jaypipessdague: yeah, I saw that. anything I can do to help?17:04
*** giulivo has joined #openstack-meeting17:04
sdaguewhich giulivo and jgriffith are helping get to the bottom of17:04
giulivoI've got it sdague17:05
sdaguejaypipes: right now, I don't think so. we've got all the right folks on it17:05
sdaguegiulivo: awesome17:05
*** neelashah has joined #openstack-meeting17:05
giulivothe scheduler updates the volume status every minute, which is too long for the tests execution17:05
sdaguegiulivo: nice find17:05
sdaguegiulivo: so do we have a way to tune that for gate?17:05
jaypipesIs Bagashree Lokare here, by any chance?17:05
giulivolook for "Received volume service update" in the sched log17:05
*** Tross has quit IRC17:05
giulivonot sure, probably it is configurable behaviour17:05
giulivohaven't checked yet17:06
sdagueok, cool. well I'll count that as problem sorted, we just need to get the right fix together17:06
sdaguenice job on that17:06
sdagueany other blueprints people are working for for H1 that they want to report in on?17:06
sdagueok... I'll take that as a no :)17:07
sdaguenext week we'll plan to do rollcall on that, because any non completed (or close ones) we'll need to push to h217:07
afazekasIMHO this should be approved17:08
jaypipessdague: hoping that Shree will set a priority and status on her 5 blueprints17:08
sdagueafazekas: sure17:08
afazekas this too17:08
sdagueafazekas: can you ping that author to but the detailed specification in the wiki instead of etherpad?17:09
sdagueetherpads are too easy to get borked17:09
sdaguethen I'll happily move it to an approved state17:09
jaypipesafazekas: ++ on ssh auth strategy. But I would love to see the blueprint title by more descriptive of the actual task. As it sounds, it seems like the blueprint is about the Keystone endpoints, but it's about SSHing into a VM (whitebox testing)17:09
*** RAX-Sam has joined #openstack-meeting17:09
jaypipesRAX-Sam: hola.17:09
jaypipesRAX-Sam: wish Daryl a happy birthday from us. :)17:09
RAX-SamHey Jay17:09
sdagueafazekas: I'm good with as well17:10
afazekassdague: I'll ask him17:10
RAX-Sam:-D He is here just having trouble connecting to Freenode... :-)17:10
sdagueafazekas: thanks17:10
jaypipesah :)17:10
sdagueok, any other blueprint updates?17:10
*** dwcramer has quit IRC17:11
sdagueok, next topic17:11
*** dwalleck has joined #openstack-meeting17:11
sdague#topic critical reviews17:11
*** openstack changes topic to "critical reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:11
sdagueany reviews we need to jump on that aren't getting enough eyes right now?17:11
giulivodoh had two blueprints to ask about:
jaypipessdague: yeah, I also still have a few bluepriont-related things..17:12
giulivothe second one looks tricky as it gets into the labeling 'discussion'17:12
sdaguejaypipes: oops, sorry for jumping the gun :)17:12
jaypipesno worries :)17:13
sdague#topic blueprints17:13
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)"17:13
*** reed_ has joined #openstack-meeting17:13
jaypipessdague: seems to be overlapped with your in-progress
sdaguegiulivo: I think we have enough rought concensus on the gate attribute for now. If we need to make a change in the future, we can17:13
*** epim has joined #openstack-meeting17:13
sdaguejaypipes: partially17:13
sdagueI think that blueprint was for some new scenario tests17:13
afazekasso how to use the smoke flag ?17:13
afazekasDo we need services related flags ?17:14
jaypipessdague: and and seem to also be identical.17:14
sdaguejaypipes: yes, there are massively duplicated quantum ones17:14
jaypipessdague: on the scenario tests, then, I would like to see more details on the former.17:14
sdaguemlavalle, were you going to try to condense those17:14
*** mrunge has quit IRC17:14
mlavallesdague: Yes, I was too busy this week, moving my family from Houston to San Antonio17:15
mlavallesdague: But I will follow up with this17:15
sdaguejaypipes: I'm happy with that as feedback to the author on the scenario tests before it moves to approved, would you like to provide it?17:15
sdaguemlavalle: thanks17:15
jaypipessdague: OK to approve It's in code review now...17:15
sdaguejaypipes: +1 on that17:16
jaypipessdague: yes on scenario.17:16
jaypipeswill provide feedback on whiteboard.17:16
sdague#action jaypipes to provide feedback on
sdaguegreat, thanks17:16
sdaguewe lost one of giulivo's17:17
jaypipessdague: logging config BP approved.17:17
sdaguejaypipes: thanks!17:17
sdagueI'm good with approving
sdagueany objections?17:17
giulivoit is "slow"17:18
sdaguegiulivo: we may have to not put the 'gate' tag on it17:18
giulivoI think this could be experimental for the labeling thing17:18
giulivoyeah indeed17:18
jaypipessdague: I renamed it to add-volume-snapshot-tests17:18
jaypipessdague: need to be specific :)17:18
sdaguejaypipes: great17:18
jaypipessdague: and +1 from me.17:18
sdagueyes, that's goodness17:18
afazekasgiulivo: did you turned of the secure delete option ?17:18
dwalleckahh, better :-) I was confused there for a sec too17:18
jaypipesIIRC, giulivo is already pretty much done with that17:18
sdagueafazekas: secure delete is off in the gate17:19
afazekaswithout secure delete it is not too slow AFAIK17:19
jaypipesgiulivo, sdague: k, updated status of add-volume-snapshot-tests17:19
sdaguejaypipes: great, thanks17:19
sdagueother blueprint issues .... ?17:20
jaypipeswell, just the Shree ones, but doesn't look like Ravi is here to provide feedback17:20
jaypipesso no :)17:20
*** koolhead17 has joined #openstack-meeting17:21
*** koolhead17 has joined #openstack-meeting17:21
jgriffithsdague: giulivo I'm looking at adding a forced check of capacity update on your race condition17:21
sdagueok, I'll take a todo to send out an email asking about H1 status by the end of the week17:21
*** eglynn has quit IRC17:21
sdague#action sdague to email openstack-qa to get remaining updates on blueprint (especially quantum ones) this week17:21
sdaguejgriffith: nice, thanks17:22
sdagueok... so probably enough on the blueprints front17:22
jaypipesya, sounds like it.17:22
*** adalbas has quit IRC17:22
sdague#topic outstanding important reviews17:22
*** openstack changes topic to "outstanding important reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:22
sdaguenow is the time to pimp reviews that need more eyes17:23
*** RAX-Sam has quit IRC17:23
*** Shree-HP has joined #openstack-meeting17:23
sdagueanyone have items?17:23
sdagueI did a run down through the review queue earlier in the week, and hit my opinions on most of them. The gate tags I still need to take a look on, but I'll do that after we get through the cinder bug17:24
sdagueafazekas: ok, I'll take a look at that17:25
afazekassdague: the cinder is probably configuration issue about the periodic tasks (and with the jitter config)17:25
sdagueany other reviews?17:26
*** RAX-Sam has joined #openstack-meeting17:26
* jaypipes actually had some time this week to do some reviews \o/ will do some more today.17:26
sdaguegoing once....17:26
sdaguejaypipes: awesome17:26
sdague#topic open discussion17:26
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: qa)"17:26
sdagueok, any other topics people want to bring up?17:26
jaypipesthis gate tag...17:26
sdaguefire away17:26
jaypipescould you give us a quick summary of the discussion so far and any decisions made?17:27
sdagueso... since grizzly rc1 our tempest run time has grown from 35 - 40 mins to 45 - 50 mins17:27
sdagueand continues to grow as new tests come in17:27
jaypipesyes, noted.17:28
sdaguewe've gotten grumbles and pushback from some of the nova team about the gate getting too long to merge complicated changesets17:28
*** jhenner has quit IRC17:28
sdaguewhich might have rebase conflicts17:28
*** SergeyLukjanov has joined #openstack-meeting17:28
sdagueso a knob that we could have, is make an explicit gate tag17:28
jaypipessdague: sorry, how does having a rebase conflict have to do with tempest runtime?17:28
afazekascan we run multiple  nosetests process in the same time ?17:29
sdaguejaypipes: because when you have a 5 patch series in zuul17:29
sdaguecompeting with other people's 5 patch series17:29
*** adalbas has joined #openstack-meeting17:30
dwalleckafazekas: You should be able to17:30
sdagueanything that causes a gate reset, be it a bad merge, a flakey test, a flakey thing in infra, gets compounded17:30
jaypipessdague: k, understood.17:30
sdagueit's O(1) in theory, but not in practice17:30
*** Tross has joined #openstack-meeting17:30
sdagueit also means that time to first feedback on a patch, for reviewers to get to it quick, is long17:30
dwalleckIf you programatically loaded the test groups and spin up nosetest processes for each module, you'd get some pretty good relief17:30
jaypipessdague: so the solution to this is to improve the runtime using parallelization (poor man's or otherwise), no?17:31
sdagueafazekas: there are lots of other approaches17:31
sdaguejaypipes: parallel clearly gets us wins17:31
afazekasIt is the lowest cost approach17:31
jaypipesdwalleck: ah, hi there :) happy belated b-day!17:31
dwalleckjaypipes: thanks man!17:31
sdagueI guess the question is will parallel, poor man's or otherwise, ever guaruntee that we stay ahead of desired test growth?17:31
*** torandu has joined #openstack-meeting17:32
jaypipessdague: so, I've recommended this a couple times, but it seems to me splitting the gate into an XML and a JSON run would give us approximately a 50% reduction in runtime17:32
sdaguejaypipes: well, it wouldn't :)17:32
sdagueit will help17:32
jaypipessdague: and that seems like it would be very easy to do.17:32
*** mpavlase has quit IRC17:32
afazekasjaypipes: we have other than just nova tests17:32
sdagueI'm totally cool with anyone else running after any other approaches17:33
jaypipesafazekas: sure, but big chunks of time are in nova compute tests :)17:33
sdaguejaypipes: less than you think :)17:33
afazekasWe should split in competent and/or directory  bases17:33
sdaguethe gate tag was something we could get to quickyl17:33
jaypipessdague: my concern with the gate tag is that it means one more thing we need to keep track of -- kind of like skips.17:33
sdaguejaypipes: sure17:33
sdaguelong term it just opens a question17:34
jaypipesbut I suppose things have gotten to the point where something needs to be done ASAP.17:34
jaypipesso I will support any solutions, like you said.17:34
sdaguedo we restrict content in tempest to what can run in a gate time limit17:34
sdagueI like the idea of having another knob so we can say it doesn't need to be17:34
giulivothat, combined with a full daily run17:35
sdaguegiulivo: exactly17:35
*** notmyname has quit IRC17:35
sdaguebecause I do believe that any code in tempest does need to run at least once a day17:35
sdagueotherwise it bit rots17:35
*** jog0 has joined #openstack-meeting17:35
sdagueeg: the old stress tests17:35
giulivomaybe at that point we could even turn the know to 15mins17:35
*** notmyname has joined #openstack-meeting17:36
jaypipesagreed, sdague17:36
sdaguegiulivo: right, but we can make that decision later17:36
sdagueright now we don't have a tool to even debate that17:36
*** otherwiseguy has quit IRC17:36
sdagueanyway, so the gate tag seemed prudent and easy17:36
sdaguehowever if someone else wants to sign up for solving it a different way by H1, I'll back off of promoting it17:36
*** eglynn has joined #openstack-meeting17:37
sdaguebut we are talking about needing a solution for H117:37
*** garyk has joined #openstack-meeting17:37
giulivostill maybe there should be some agreement on when to use smoke on a testcase?17:37
sdaguebecause we're running long right now17:37
sdaguegiulivo: yes, we need some time auditing things17:37
giulivooh so setting two barriers you mean17:37
sdaguemy proposal is gate tag now. Spin up periodic jobs again for full. (all H1)17:38
jaypipessdague: understood. I would volunteer to work on a the XML/JSON split, but unfortunately, I cannot promise to make the 5/30 deadline.17:38
jaypipessdague: sounds like a good plan for H117:38
RAX-SamI think that parallelization (poor man's or otherwise) will help short term, but it doesn't solve a long term problem. Ultimately I figure it should be a multi-part solution. I.E. Poor man's parallelization, split XML & JSON, maybe carve up further into multiple jobs (gate job, daily job, etc...) being very careful about tests that create expensive resources, etc...17:38
sdaguethen push for real parallel for H2 with testr17:38
*** boris-42 has joined #openstack-meeting17:38
afazekassdague: Somehow we should document what covered by which test case in order to select correctly test cases for a shorter run17:38
*** dolphm has quit IRC17:38
*** reed_ has quit IRC17:38
sdaguethen see what other optimizations we can make for H3 to get as much in the gate as we can17:38
jaypipesRAX-Sam: agreed. my poor man's parallel == Split XML and JSON runs ;)17:39
sdagueafazekas: you volunteering?17:39
jaypipesreally poor man ;)17:39
*** woodspa has quit IRC17:39
giulivoafazekas, ++ !17:39
sdaguehey, poor man's parallel is fine, I just haven't seen volunteers for it :)17:39
*** woodspa has joined #openstack-meeting17:39
*** reed_ has joined #openstack-meeting17:40
jaypipessdague: I will give a stab at PMP with XML/JSON17:40
sdaguejaypipes: awesome17:40
jaypipessdague: #action me.17:40
jaypipesI don't suppose it will be any code patches to tempest itself... just devstack-gate17:40
sdague#action jaypipes to do PiMP XML / JSON tests17:40
*** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away17:41
sdaguejaypipes: actually, now that the d-g running is in tox, you'll need to do it in tempest + zuul config17:41
sdaguethat's actually probably something to fyi folks on17:41
*** dolphm has joined #openstack-meeting17:41
afazekassdague:after I  can figure out what is the normal format of doing that, yes. But first I should add same doc stings to the base classes17:41
sdaguedevstack-gate is now just calling tox -e'....' into tempest to run tests17:42
sdagueso we don't have to patch d-g when we move things around17:42
jaypipessdague: no problem. I have enough experience with that in th epast couple weeks doing the chef cookbook stuff ;)17:42
sdaguecurrently we have -esmoke and -efull17:42
giulivoafazekas, docstrings in the base classes for which purpose?17:42
afazekasjaypipes: the 'challenge' is the proper log out output17:43
sdaguejaypipes: coolio17:43
jaypipesafazekas: I wouldn'17:43
jaypipest be changing any log output...17:43
sdagueyeh, it would be separate jobs17:43
afazekasgiulivo: documenting the functions used by the test cases17:43
sdagueok, additional topics?17:44
*** lbragstad has quit IRC17:44
*** jlucci has joined #openstack-meeting17:44
*** RAX-Sam has quit IRC17:44
*** woodspa_ has joined #openstack-meeting17:45
sdaguegoing once...17:45
sdaguegoing twice...17:45
jaypipesafazekas: suggestion...17:45
jaypipesafazekas: that email is likely too long to have an effective conversation about all the points. I would recommend splitting into separate emails for each point.17:46
afazekasjaypipes: ok17:46
*** dwalleck has quit IRC17:46
jaypipesafazekas: possibly putting that original email in an etherpad and referring to it from the followup single-topic emails.17:46
sdagueafazekas: yeh, we've gotten active on our ML recently, so I think if it came in new in chunks, we'd get a good discussion17:46
jaypipesafazekas: because they are all good points, just got lost in the shuffle too easily in a big email like that17:47
afazekasI see :)17:47
sdagueok, with that I think I'll call it a meeting. We can take additional topics to #openstack-qa or the mailing list17:47
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"17:47
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 16 17:47:44 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:47
openstackMinutes (text):
sdaguethanks for coming call17:47
afazekaswait :)17:47
sdaguecoming all17:47
sdagueoh, sorry...17:48
afazekasWe should check our bug tracker17:48
afazekaswe have a lot of new bug17:48
*** woodspa__ has joined #openstack-meeting17:48
*** woodspa has quit IRC17:48
sdagueok, good point. but lets take it to #openstack-qa17:48
sdaguebecause I ended the meeting early .... sorry :(17:48
*** malini1 has joined #openstack-meeting17:49
*** giulivo has left #openstack-meeting17:49
*** mlavalle has left #openstack-meeting17:49
*** woodspa_ has quit IRC17:49
*** jlucci has quit IRC17:50
*** eglynn has quit IRC17:51
*** terriyu has left #openstack-meeting17:51
*** IlyaE has quit IRC17:51
*** woodspa_ has joined #openstack-meeting17:52
*** lbragstad has joined #openstack-meeting17:53
*** eharney has quit IRC17:54
*** dansmith has joined #openstack-meeting17:54
*** jlucci has joined #openstack-meeting17:55
*** eharney has joined #openstack-meeting17:55
*** eharney has joined #openstack-meeting17:55
*** woodspa__ has quit IRC17:55
*** neelashah has quit IRC17:56
*** sushils has quit IRC17:58
*** rwsu has quit IRC17:58
*** neelashah has joined #openstack-meeting17:59
*** torandu has quit IRC17:59
bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu May 16 18:00:16 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:00
*** jhullinge has joined #openstack-meeting18:00
bdpaynehi everyone18:00
bdpayneBryan Payne from Nebula here18:00
bdpaynewho else do we have?18:00
noslzzpGreetings..  Basil from Red Hat.18:01
malini1Basil -- hope you did get some sleep!18:01
noslzzpA bit!18:01
*** lpabon has quit IRC18:01
*** hanney has quit IRC18:01
bdpayneha, nice18:01
bdpayneok, we'll get started18:01
*** amyt has quit IRC18:01
bdpayneI'm sure more will join as we go18:02
bdpayne#topic Doc Sprint18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Doc Sprint (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:02
*** tkammer has quit IRC18:02
bdpayneso we have dates locked in: June 24-2818:02
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting18:02
* annegentle waves18:02
bdpaynewe have a location locked in (near BWI)18:02
bdpaynehi annegentle18:02
*** mtesauro has joined #openstack-meeting18:02
annegentlepsyched for the doc sprint y'all!18:03
bdpayneand we have about 12 people committed to participating18:03
bdpaynenoslzzp I'd like to explore getting a hotel block18:04
bdpayneand we have some logistics to work our regarding food and such18:04
noslzzpIt's complicated. :)18:04
noslzzpSo, because we have a sponsor from the IC, the address is sensitive.18:05
noslzzpThe last meeting we had there, we didn't get final address details until late.18:05
*** swells has joined #openstack-meeting18:05
bdpaynewell, people will need to book a hotel, right?18:05
noslzzpI've asked Shawn to join here real quick.18:06
swellsnoslzzp:  i'm here18:06
bdpayneand we'd like to be as close to the site as possible… walking distance is ideal18:06
*** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net18:06
mtesaurowho is "the IC" - I missed the last meeting18:07
noslzzpOk.. So I've been the facility in mind.  And it's walking distance from 2-3 hotels.18:07
*** colinmcnamara has quit IRC18:07
noslzzp"IC" = intelligence community.18:07
noslzzpThe location is very good for us.  Good wifi, large room, quiet and decent restaurants.18:07
bdpaynecould we still get a block at one of those hotels and not disclose the actual meeting location until last minute?18:08
noslzzpGive me 48 hours to get confirmation from our sponsor.  I'd like to keep protocol in place.18:08
bdpaynefair enough18:09
*** joel-coffman has joined #openstack-meeting18:09
bdpaynewe can discuss offline once you know more noslzzp18:09
noslzzpShawn is helping with the coordination.18:09
bdpayne#action noslzzp / swells to confirm our ability to setup hotel block18:09
noslzzpbdpayne, yes, offline as soon as we're fully cleared to share the address.18:09
noslzzpSorry this is so complicated. :)18:10
bdpayneno problem18:10
bdpayneI used to live in that world, I understand at a deeper level than I care to admit18:10
bdpayneok, so bottom line here is that logistics are starting to come together18:11
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting18:11
bdpayneand we have a great team put together to do the guide18:11
*** IlyaE has joined #openstack-meeting18:11
bdpayneany other things to discuss regarding the doc sprint?18:11
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting18:11
*** boris-42 has quit IRC18:12
bdpayneok, we can move forward then18:12
bdpayne#topic Ongoing Security Projects18:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing Security Projects (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:12
bdpayneAnyone here that can provide an update on RPC security, key manager, and/or volume encryption work?18:12
joel-coffmanI can speak to the volume encryption work18:13
malini1Key manager: malini18:13
bdpaynejoel-coffman let's start with you then18:13
*** malini has left #openstack-meeting18:13
joel-coffmanWe expect to (re)submit our code in another couple of weeks18:14
mtesauroI know key manager is actively being developed - I'm on the github and see the commit/pull requests/etc.18:14
joel-coffmanWe're working to incorporate changes requested at the summit18:14
*** otherwiseguy has joined #openstack-meeting18:14
bdpaynejoel-coffman what can we expect from a functionality perspective from this new code submition?18:15
joel-coffmanThe encryption part should be fully-functional18:15
bdpaynewithout integration into a key manager?18:16
bdpayneor with?18:16
joel-coffmanuntil the key manager is ready, I don't know how useful it will be in a deployed environment18:16
bdpayneright, ok18:16
malini1Key manager goal is to have enough in git by May 31 for joel-coffman to get a key and use18:16
joel-coffmanwe aren't quite ready to integrate with the key manager yet18:16
*** dwalleck has joined #openstack-meeting18:17
joel-coffmanthat timeline sounds about perfect18:17
*** dwalleck has quit IRC18:17
malini1key manger will support "put" secret, "get" secret18:17
bdpaynejoel-coffman if you put "SecurityImpact" in your git commit message for the PR, then it will automatically email the security list for review when your code goes up18:17
malini1May 31 is Havana-1 deadline, and July 18 havana-2, meeting 1&2 ensures incubation success18:17
bdpaynesounds good, let us know if there's anything else the security group can do to help there18:18
bdpaynemalini1 any other details on the key manager work?18:18
malini1I am working on keystone integration for key manager18:18
*** markmcclain has quit IRC18:19
*** dhellmann has quit IRC18:19
malini1and it is coming along18:19
malini1jarret from rackspace is working on a client, so slowly all the pieces are coming togeher18:19
bdpayneis the architecture / design of the key manager with regards to keystone available anyware?18:19
*** dhellmann has joined #openstack-meeting18:20
mtesauroMalini - when you say client - do you mean the JS client?18:20
*** markmcclain has joined #openstack-meeting18:20
mtesauroaka Palisade?18:21
malini1the only piece I am not too thrilled is that the rackspace design has a notion of "order", which is asynch to create a key18:21
malini1that fits in better for pki private/public and certificate, for a simple asymmetric key that feels like too much overhead18:21
mtesauroI suspect that if for SSL cert mgmt.  That process has to be async if dealing with a third party CA18:21
malini1the alternative is for the service wanting a secret key to just create it and "put" it into keymanager18:22
bdpayneperhaps async is a reasonable first step?  with an optimization available for symmetric keys down the road?18:22
malini1exactly, it is for ssl-cert management, but users such as cinder, swift etc are seeking symmetric keys18:22
malini1yes, would like support for pitching a fast-pass for symmetric keys18:23
*** eglynn has joined #openstack-meeting18:23
bdpayneso is the key store creating the keys.. or just storing them?18:23
malini1having a fast-pass for symmetric would better support a use model where there is say and HSM to back the key manager18:23
malini1both models support, creating and storing18:23
*** lbragstad has quit IRC18:24
*** krtaylor has quit IRC18:24
malini1because storing is supported, do not need to use the asynch path for symmetric keys18:24
mtesauroI am a short walk away from Jarret - I can talk to him about this.18:24
bdpaynepersonally, I like creating b/c I suspect that many users will make mistakes in trying to create keys18:24
bdpaynemtesauro that would be great18:24
*** ipersky has joined #openstack-meeting18:25
*** dwcramer has joined #openstack-meeting18:25
bdpayne#action joel-coffman to aim for Havana-1 deadline for submission of volume encryption code18:25
joel-coffmanwill do18:25
bdpayne#action mtesauro to discuss symmetric keys use case with Jarret, sync back with malini118:26
bdpayneanything else to discuss?18:26
*** romcheg has left #openstack-meeting18:26
bdpayneok then… thanks everyone for attending18:26
*** lbragstad has joined #openstack-meeting18:27
bdpayneI believe we are done for today18:27
malini1the point of creation needs to have a good supply of entropy for random numbers, so if the keymanager client has an api call for create key, that would work, most service endpoints for key creation will be on host machines18:27
malini1with the necessary entropy18:27
malini1thanks everyone18:28
bdpayneexactly… and then the key manager could get the entropy correctly18:28
*** markpeek has quit IRC18:28
bdpaynewhereas the clients may not use a proper rng18:28
bdpaynewhich is a pretty common mistake18:28
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:29
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 16 18:29:11 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:29
openstackMinutes (text):
*** dhellmann is now known as dhellmann-away18:29
*** joel-coffman has quit IRC18:31
*** openstack has joined #openstack-meeting18:33
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o openstack18:33
clarkbjeblair: there it is18:33
*** jhullinge has quit IRC18:34
jeblair#startmeeting test18:34
openstackMeeting started Thu May 16 18:34:08 2013 UTC.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:34
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: test)"18:34
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'test'18:34
jeblairtest meeting!18:34
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"18:34
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 16 18:34:20 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:34
openstackMinutes (text):
*** adalbas has quit IRC18:34
*** hub_cap has left #openstack-meeting18:38
*** eglynn has quit IRC18:41
*** mkollaro has quit IRC18:42
*** afazekas has quit IRC18:44
*** adalbas has joined #openstack-meeting18:45
*** novas0x2a|laptop has joined #openstack-meeting18:45
*** rwsu has joined #openstack-meeting18:50
*** mlavalle has joined #openstack-meeting18:51
*** anniec has quit IRC18:53
*** flaper87 has quit IRC18:58
*** flaper87 has joined #openstack-meeting18:58
*** jimbaker has left #openstack-meeting18:58
*** afazekas has joined #openstack-meeting19:01
*** epim has quit IRC19:01
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting19:02
*** dwcramer has quit IRC19:02
*** boris-42 has joined #openstack-meeting19:03
*** ilyashak_ has joined #openstack-meeting19:04
*** epim has joined #openstack-meeting19:04
*** ilyashak_ is now known as ilyashakhat_19:05
*** ilyashakhat_ has quit IRC19:05
*** lcheng2 has quit IRC19:06
*** krtaylor has joined #openstack-meeting19:10
*** adalbas has quit IRC19:10
*** amyt has quit IRC19:12
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting19:12
*** swells has left #openstack-meeting19:14
*** IlyaE has quit IRC19:22
*** cp16net is now known as cp16net|away19:22
*** reed_ is now known as reed19:23
*** adalbas has joined #openstack-meeting19:23
*** sandywalsh has quit IRC19:24
*** koolhead17 has quit IRC19:25
*** maoy has quit IRC19:26
*** maoy has joined #openstack-meeting19:27
*** amyt has quit IRC19:28
*** amyt has joined #openstack-meeting19:28
*** krtaylor has quit IRC19:29
*** manip has joined #openstack-meeting19:30
*** eglynn has joined #openstack-meeting19:31
*** jcoufal has quit IRC19:31
*** alexheneveld has joined #openstack-meeting19:31
*** ayoung has quit IRC19:35
*** dev_sa has joined #openstack-meeting19:37
*** sandywalsh has joined #openstack-meeting19:37
*** jecarey has quit IRC19:38
*** rwsu has quit IRC19:38
*** eglynn has quit IRC19:39
*** rwsu has joined #openstack-meeting19:39
*** rwsu has quit IRC19:40
*** manip has quit IRC19:40
*** ipersky has quit IRC19:45
*** ipersky has joined #openstack-meeting19:46
*** lcheng2 has joined #openstack-meeting19:47
*** sushils has joined #openstack-meeting19:47
*** dev_sa is now known as devvesa19:48
*** krtaylor has joined #openstack-meeting19:49
*** davidhadas_ has quit IRC19:50
*** devvesa has quit IRC19:50
*** eharney has quit IRC19:50
*** alexheneveld has quit IRC19:51
*** lcheng2 has quit IRC19:53
*** mjs has joined #openstack-meeting19:56
*** martine_ has quit IRC19:57
*** adrian_otto has joined #openstack-meeting19:58
*** samc__ has joined #openstack-meeting19:58
*** sarob_ has joined #openstack-meeting20:00
harlowja#startmeeting state-management20:00
openstackMeeting started Thu May 16 20:00:29 2013 UTC.  The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'state_management'20:00
harlowjahowday all!20:00
harlowjahi hi20:00
*** devvesa has joined #openstack-meeting20:01
*** dprince has quit IRC20:01
harlowjajgriffith yt20:01
*** esheffield has joined #openstack-meeting20:01
*** sarob__ has joined #openstack-meeting20:02
harlowjahey, so i guess we can start, anyone else can wonder in :)20:02
*** jecarey has joined #openstack-meeting20:02
*** sarob has quit IRC20:02
harlowjaso lots of good stuff happening, where to start! :)20:02
*** Guest25612 is now known as nikhil__20:03
harlowjai think there is enough activity that we decided to go directly to stackforge, and then as we flush out cinder (And elsewhere) we can start hooking it in there20:03
*** sarob_ has quit IRC20:03
harlowjajlucci from rackspace is helping get the stackforge stuff going20:03
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1179754 in openstack-ci "Create taskflow-core gerrit group" [Wishlist,Incomplete]20:04
*** pcm___ has quit IRC20:04
harlowjai started that, but it seems like its more of the gerrit config files that matters, so thats good news, pretty self-service20:04
harlowjaso as far as cinder integration, jgriffith  has written up some useful initial diagrams of what cinder is doing and the issues it has20:05
*** alexheneveld has joined #openstack-meeting20:06
harlowjacreate volume and create snapshot currently suffer from the lack of abilitiy to revert correctly it seems20:06
harlowjathe ntt folks have also updated evacuate/migrate  in as well for those that are interested20:06
*** cp16net|away is now known as cp16net20:06
harlowjaso thats all good stuff, and shows that we are making progress in step #1, understanding the problems to fix :)20:07
*** jrodom has quit IRC20:07
harlowjaif anyone is interested they can add there potential use case there also :)20:08
iperskyRunInstance diagram looks impressive20:08
harlowjascary or impressive ;)20:08
harlowjascary impressive, lol20:08
harlowjai also updated the primitives wiki with some minor changes20:09
*** lcheng2 has joined #openstack-meeting20:09
harlowjaadded the concept of a 'job claim' which is how a job gets claimed by somethign about to work on it20:09
harlowja*could be ZK based, DB based...20:09
harlowjaalso started adding some of the underlying patterns that taskflow might be able to help organize code 'states' with20:10
alexheneveldhi -- sorry late.  but just in time -- that was the question i was going to ask20:10
alexheneveldcan some of this be tied in to the existing DB entities somehow…20:11
harlowjathats the plan20:11
*** boris-42 has quit IRC20:11
harlowjawe'll see what kind of schema changes might have to happen, but hopefuly not so many :)20:12
adrian_ottoguys, that is not going to work for lock management20:12
adrian_ottoit works fine for persisting state, but not for managing concurrency.20:12
*** dolphm has quit IRC20:13
harlowjaright, but i can see certain uses (say in nova) where they don't have much of a concurrency to begin with, so they can still take advantage of the other parts of the library (just not the cocurrent job claiming stuff)20:13
adrian_ottoso if the only expectation is that a single thread in a single sequence is going to use the DB to track state transitions, then fine20:13
adrian_ottobut as soon as you bring in multiple workers, that breaks down20:13
harlowjai think we need to put a big warning on the DB implementations that say that20:14
alexheneveldadrian_otto: some db's let you … but is the concern portabiliity?20:14
nsavinbut zk should be fine for concurrency20:14
adrian_ottothere is a feature in MySQL to do applicaiton locks, but you can't expect to put an ORM in front of that20:14
jlucciWe don't want to commit to zk20:14
adrian_ottoI'm not suggesting zk20:14
*** sarob__ has quit IRC20:15
adrian_ottobut that you can't rely on SQLite or MySQL to act as a backing store for a locking implementation20:15
alexheneveldsome generic mutex / notify service20:15
adrian_ottobecause of MVCC20:15
adrian_ottoyes, something as simple as something with a backend on a single node with flock() or fcntl() would even work20:16
adrian_ottobut we need to thing of solving concurrency control and data persistence as separate implementations20:16
adrian_ottothat are coordinated.20:16
harlowjaso i think there are 2 pieces of this library that it will provide, 1 is the job posting, ownership, concurrency stuff, which likely a DB is not gonna work, but then there is the task/workflow organization, which can be used almost seperatly from the distributed stuff in a way20:16
maoyi must be missing something. orchestration tasks are long running, it's probably a bad idea to hold db lock for that long. need to use some entries to "safeguard" instead20:16
adrian_ottoharlowja: exactly.20:17
harlowjacool, i think seeing an example might help :)20:18
adrian_ottomaoy: we need a lock primitive. Regardless if they are coarse locks or fine grained locks.20:18
alexheneveldharlowja: could job posting + ownership still be done in the DB ?  just have a very lightweight concurrency control service.20:18
*** eglynn has joined #openstack-meeting20:19
harlowjaalexheneveld i believe so, it really depends on the tasks that compose the workflow, simple stuff like in most of openstack i think can be made pretty lightweight, but more complicated things like user-defined workflows shouldn't be restricted by the same code, we should try to enable both :)20:19
harlowjasay like for most of openstack, u could get away with posting (which is really a mq message) and ownership can be setting a field in a db20:20
harlowjathat works ok, but then said owner isn't resilent to failure20:20
harlowja*which might be ok for openstack binaries which can be restarted by init.d and such20:20
*** eharney has joined #openstack-meeting20:20
alexheneveldharlowja: but you can have a health check process which determines whether owner is gone away and/or timeout on the job...20:21
hemnafor the first drop of this, I'd like to see something simple20:21
harlowjayes, which might be fine for openstack, but not acceptable for users i think20:21
alexheneveldwhich touches on scheduler… the two are pretty closely related i think20:21
hemnaand not over engineered20:21
harlowjahemna agreed20:21
harlowjabut we should discuss the complex cases, since it will come up20:22
hemnalets not solve world hunger here20:22
harlowjaimho the complex cases are just more advanced primitives20:22
harlowjathe simple cases just use dumbed-down primitives :)20:22
harlowjaso thats why having a solid primitive foundation is pretty important20:22
hemnaI'm fine with using a db backing for starters.20:22
harlowjaso the taskflow library right now has a memory backed part to start, new this week, mostly works :-P20:23
harlowjaexample usage20:23
*** tomoiaga has joined #openstack-meeting20:23
harlowjathat would be something like the cinder workflow that they have20:24
* harlowja let people digest that for a sec20:24
*** devvesa has quit IRC20:25
*** IlyaE has joined #openstack-meeting20:25
* hemna chews20:25
harlowjausing the primitives, even with simple memory backends we can experiment with reverting, resumption and all that20:25
harlowjait gets interesting when u start using a database backed logbook for example20:26
adrian_ottolooks good to me. I like that as a simple starting point.20:26
harlowja*note that there is no concurrency there, no distributed jobs and such20:26
harlowjabut imho u get alot just with this type of usage20:27
hemnayah I think that's good20:27
adrian_ottoyep, we can start with this, and revisit the concurrency stuff in a subsequent effort20:27
harlowjawell jlucci is helping make the distributed stuff work :) so its all happening ;)20:28
*** dwcramer has joined #openstack-meeting20:28
*** apmelton has quit IRC20:28
harlowjabut i think the distributed stuff is a seperate 'pattern', not the only pattern, but one of them20:28
harlowjasome peoples usage will just be the simple case, like cinder for example, don't care about distributing your job, just want to have a workflow revert, then this might work fine (or almost be fine +- some other changes)20:28
harlowjanova i think is similar with conductor20:29
harlowjasince they have there own 'job posting/disribution' mechanisms20:29
harlowjaits not perfect yet, but i think the example there shows the potential :)20:29
alexheneveldharlowja: code looks clean20:29
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting20:30
harlowjaso i am hoping to add some more tests and such, there are a few, and then getting a db based logbook, which will allow for resumption across a process (but not concurrently acting on it)20:31
iperskyharlowja: i like it too. is there some parts i can help implement? backends maybe?20:31
harlowjasure ipersky if u want to start on the db backend stuff, that might be neat :)20:31
*** markpeek has quit IRC20:32
harlowjai think we need that one before we can hook-in to cinder, although i think we can start working with jgriffith  and getting some code in even at this stage20:32
jlucci+1 for backend work. :D20:32
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting20:32
alexheneveldharlowja: could this be backed by celery?  should it?20:32
harlowjaafter it moves to stackforge, and we all think its ok, we can pypi it and start using it in nova, cinder, ...20:32
harlowjaalexheneveld so excellent question20:33
harlowjajlucci :)20:33
kebrayI think jlucci may be working on some celery goodness, no?20:33
jlucciSo the distributed pattern right now is using celery20:33
harlowjajlucci is helping alot in making sure the primitives work there, or if not, how can we adjust them so that it does20:34
hemnaI'll start looking at the usages for it and see if it makes sense to dink with cinder yet20:34
harlowjasince i think celery (the distributed pattern) should also be possible if people want to use it that way20:34
jlucciAnd so far the primitives seem to translate pretty well20:34
harlowjahemna thanks, it might be a few weeks off, but the foundation i think is getting less slushy20:34
harlowjajlucci is having to put up with me changing it, sorry jlucci  :)20:34
jlucciS'all good. :P20:35
hemnait might be a good exercize for me just to start learning the api and where stuff might go in cinder20:35
harlowjasure, feel free to mess around with it20:35
*** eglynn has quit IRC20:35
*** sacharya has quit IRC20:36
harlowjait will proably end up at stackforge soon20:36
harlowjaif anyone wants to try a ZK backend, it might be neat also20:36
*** antonym- is now known as antonym20:36
harlowjaor think about how conductor could start to use this, i have some ideas, i think john barriet (sp?) might have some to20:36
iperskyI'd like to look into it20:37
iperskyi mean ZK )20:37
harlowjaipersky cool20:37
harlowjaany new use cases would be really cool, the more the better :)20:37
harlowjamore betterness for all ;)20:37
adrian_ottoipersky: did you see the little zk code stub that's already in there?20:38
iperskywell, still first have to read the code/docs and ast a lot of dumb questions20:38
adrian_ottothere is a place to hang that once you look at the source20:38
harlowjaipersky i can connect u with the nttdata folks also, they were working with the prototype nova code and zk20:38
harlowjait might be a 'easy' move into this library (not sure)20:39
*** martines has joined #openstack-meeting20:39
*** markpeek1 has joined #openstack-meeting20:39
harlowjaadrian_otto are u talking about that code, or the nova zk code?20:39
harlowja*which is the service group stuff20:39
*** tong|2 has joined #openstack-meeting20:39
*** ashwini has quit IRC20:40
*** sileht_ has joined #openstack-meeting20:40
*** anniec has joined #openstack-meeting20:40
changblharlowja, ipersky , i can also help with zk backend20:40
harlowjachangbl great :)20:40
*** tomoiaga has left #openstack-meeting20:41
harlowjaawesome stuff :)20:41
adrian_ottoharlowja: I was referring to what I saw in gerrit for Nova20:41
*** litong has quit IRC20:41
*** enikanorov_ has joined #openstack-meeting20:41
*** jdurgin2 has joined #openstack-meeting20:41
harlowjaafaik there is some ongoing work to move to 1 zk library  in nova, so that if taskflow gets used it won't pull in a secondary zk library20:41
harlowjakazoo seems to be the library thats the best supported nowadays20:42
*** jcoufal has joined #openstack-meeting20:42
*** dansmith_ has joined #openstack-meeting20:42
*** Brainspackle has quit IRC20:42
*** sileht has quit IRC20:42
*** enikanorov has quit IRC20:42
*** jdurgin1 has quit IRC20:42
*** Brainspackle has joined #openstack-meeting20:42
harlowjacool, so lets open for any other discussion, i think we covered all i want to talk about, unless others have topics :)20:42
*** markpeek1 has quit IRC20:42
harlowjagreat progress is happening imho :)20:43
*** markpeek has quit IRC20:43
*** dansmith has quit IRC20:43
*** Brainspa1kle has joined #openstack-meeting20:43
*** dansmith_ is now known as dansmith20:43
harlowja#topic open-discussion20:43
*** openstack changes topic to "open-discussion (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:43
jlucciagreed - I'll try to have an example of a celery/distributed pattern soon for people to see20:43
harlowjabtw, some example that i was working on last night that people might like20:44
adrian_ottojlucci: thanks for your efforts on this. I know you've really been cranking on it.20:44
harlowjayes thanks jlucci  :)20:44
alexheneveldjlucci: looking forward to it20:44
jluccihaha np Glad to be helping. It's an exciting project20:44
iperskychangbl great i'll add you to discussion when start asking dumb questions on backend design20:44
kebrayDo we have a target timeline/goal in mind for delivering a solid use case (e.g. for Cinder, or Heat, etc.) that we should be aware that we are working toward?20:44
harlowjahmmm, hemna any thoughts?20:45
harlowja#link #link for the neat local threaded jobboard workflow stuff if anyone is interested20:45
*** bdpayne_ has joined #openstack-meeting20:45
hemnagood progress, I'd just like to start playing with it and see how it fits in20:45
harlowjai think havana-1 is soon right, so my guess not that one20:46
harlowjahavana-2 maybe?20:46
hemnawhen is the H1 date?20:46
adrian_ottovery close20:46
adrian_ottonext week20:46
adrian_ottoH2: July 1920:46
hemnaok H2 sounds more reasonable20:46
harlowjai think H2 is more realistic :)20:46
harlowjaH1 could happen, but i think that would be pushing to hard20:47
hemnanext week is kinda a wash for most folks anyway with the US holiday20:47
kebrayok, cool.  no pressure, just good to have goals :-)20:47
changblipersky, np~20:47
adrian_ottoshoot for getting basic primitives in H120:47
adrian_ottoand then code that implements them in H220:47
harlowjasure, so that brings up a good question that i'm not sure about20:47
hemnawould it make any sense to pull this into cinder as is for H1 ?20:48
harlowjado stackforge projects follow h1,h2...20:48
harlowjawe can of course make sure we follow that20:48
harlowjahemna i don't think so20:48
*** jcoufal has quit IRC20:48
harlowjaneeds a little more time to mature i think20:48
harlowjabut i think its 'playground ready'20:49
jlucci+1 for h220:49
nsavin+1 for h220:49
hemnaI just thought it'd be nice to get in the gating and all.  But didn't we already say that stackforge can do the same?20:49
harlowjahemna ya20:49
*** dnoll has joined #openstack-meeting20:49
hemnaok, then +1 for H2 then20:49
harlowjastackforge does all the gating, and ci tests and such20:49
hemnaI'd like to see if I can get a few simple use cases plugged in for cinder at H2 as well20:49
hemnavolume creation, snapshot creation20:50
hemnaI don't want to wait for H3 to get this used :)20:50
*** Brainspackle has quit IRC20:50
*** bdpayne has quit IRC20:50
*** mrutkows has quit IRC20:50
*** davidhadas has quit IRC20:50
*** swifterdarrell has quit IRC20:50
*** BobBall has quit IRC20:50
harlowjajohn put some of those up, so we can have a place to track them20:50
hemnaok cool20:50
harlowjaH2 sounds reasonable to me20:51
harlowjaand lets it mature to a decent level20:51
*** tpatil has joined #openstack-meeting20:51
hemnaok lets plan on getting it in H2 along with create volume and create snapshot20:51
*** swifterdarrell has joined #openstack-meeting20:52
harlowjaalso for ongoing discussions we can use the #openstack-state-management room20:52
harlowjaprobably easier than email and such20:52
hemnawe'll have a better idea on the api as well as the work required to cover the rest of cinder for H3 then20:52
harlowjahemna sounds great :)20:53
*** mdomsch has joined #openstack-meeting20:53
harlowjaif all of cinder would use this, that would be incredible imho20:53
* harlowja would be super happy20:53
hemnathat's the plan :)20:53
harlowjavery cool20:53
harlowja#agreed aim for a few use-cases for cinder in H220:54
*** samc__ has quit IRC20:54
* adrian_otto departing to catch a flight20:54
harlowjaif anyone wants to try it in nova and such, that'd be cool to, i might be able to try that out, we'll see20:55
harlowjaor reddwarf, or anywhere people feel :)20:55
harlowjaok dokie, any other stuff to talk about?20:55
hemnanice job man20:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"20:56
kebrayI sit next to the lead for Reddwarf.  I'll follow up with Michael Basnight.  #action kebray to follow up with Baz on Reddwarf dependency of TaskFlow for H220:56
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 16 20:56:05 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:56
openstackMinutes (text):
harlowjakebray, oops, cut u off, sorry :)20:56
kebrayno worries.20:56
kebrayI type slow.20:56
harlowjai thought 500wpm20:56
kebrayWe'll check the log.  either way, I'll follow up.20:56
harlowjabb, gotta get food before nova meeting :)20:57
harlowjakeep in touch everyone20:57
*** adrian_otto has quit IRC20:57
*** ipersky has quit IRC20:58
*** mriedem has joined #openstack-meeting20:58
*** jpeeler has quit IRC20:59
*** davidhadas has joined #openstack-meeting20:59
*** cyeoh_ is now known as cyeoh21:00
*** senhuang has joined #openstack-meeting21:00
russellb#startmeeting nova21:01
openstackMeeting started Thu May 16 21:01:04 2013 UTC.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:01
russellbWell hello, everyone!21:01
russellbwho's around to chat?21:01
russellbthrow your ascii hands in the air like you just don't care21:01
russellb#topic blueprints21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)"21:02
russellblet's take a look at havana-1 status21:02
*** kebray is now known as keith_bray21:02
russellbso time is flying by on this21:02
russellbmerge deadline is only 1.5 weeks away21:02
*** melwitt has joined #openstack-meeting21:02
russellbwhich means that ideally anything targeted for havana-1 should be up for review in about ... 0.5 weeks21:02
*** SergeyLukjanov has quit IRC21:03
comstudWhole stole our time?21:03
russellbto give time for the review process21:03
*** esheffield has left #openstack-meeting21:03
russellbcomstud: ikr?21:03
russellbso please take a look at this list and 1) ensure that the status is accurate21:03
russellb2) try to get this stuff up for review by early/mid next week21:04
russellb3) if not #2, let me know as soon as you think it's going to slip so we can update the blueprint to push it back for havana-221:04
mikalI will not be completing 6 bps in the next week. I shall move some to havana-2.21:04
russellbmikal: great, thank you sir21:04
russellbjust need to keep this up to date so we have an accurate picture of the road to havana-121:04
russellband for reference, the full havana list is here ...21:05
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting21:05
*** jpeeler has joined #openstack-meeting21:05
*** jpeeler has joined #openstack-meeting21:05
comstudis there an easy way to see which are targeted for -1 ?21:05
russellbcomstud: the first link21:05
russellbyou can also see what needs code review there21:06
russellbwhich is handy for prioritizing reviews21:06
senhuangthe link also have bug fixes which are targeted for H-121:06
russellbsince ideally we can land the stuff targeted at havana-1 with some priority21:06
russellbsenhuang: good point, indeed it does21:07
russellbany questions on the blueprints or havana-1 status stuff?21:07
comstudmikal: I only see 1 assigned to you.. what's the other 5?21:07
*** stevebaker has quit IRC21:07
comstud(Looking at where I can help)21:07
mikalcomstud: Oh, I see. That number includes bugs apparently.21:08
*** dhellmann-away has quit IRC21:08
mikal1 bp, 5 bugs.21:08
comstudyeah it does21:08
comstudcools :)21:08
russellbk, also yell if you need help :)21:09
russellb#topic bugs21:09
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:09
russellblooks like our new bug count is rising quickly, so any triage is always helpful :-)21:09
*** stevebaker has joined #openstack-meeting21:09
russellbspeaking of which, a big opportunity for making a significant contribution to the nova project is someone to focus on bug triage to make sure we stay on top of it21:10
*** joel-coffman has joined #openstack-meeting21:10
russellb#help need bug triage, as usual21:10
cburgessrussellb: Do we have a guide for triage?21:10
russellbcburgess: we surrrrre do!21:10
*** sarob has quit IRC21:10
cburgessWhile I'm not promising anything, I'm happy to help with a guide21:10
cburgessCool.. bookmarked.21:11
russellbyeah, it's something you can do with as little or as much time as you want21:11
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting21:11
devanandafwiw, lifeless uncovered and filed a lot of bugs against the baremetal driver. they are, i believe all triaged, but most are pretty serious and marked High priority.21:11
*** markmcclain has quit IRC21:11
devanandaI'm picking them off as solutions become apparent, but if anyone else doing a POC with baremetal wants to hack on them21:12
devanandapoke me or folks in #tripleo if you need tips21:12
mikalAlso, I think we're down for another bug day Wednesday next week?21:12
russellball tagged as baremetal presumably?21:12
russellbmikal: sounds great to me21:12
devanandarussellb: yes, i believe so21:12
driptonbug day!21:12
russellb#help could use help fixing bugs in baremetal:
russellb#note bug day next wednesday, May 2221:13
russellbanything else on bugs?21:13
russellb#topic sub-team reports21:14
*** openstack changes topic to "sub-team reports (Meeting topic: nova)"21:14
russellbok so this time i'd first just like to know who'd like to give a report21:14
russellband then i'll call on each one21:14
russellbso we don't step on each other21:14
russellbdevananda: I think an Ironic update would be good in this section each week21:14
devanandarussellb: ack21:14
hartsocksI can report on VMwareAPI team having actually met. Next meeting coming up the 22nd.21:15
*** lindj_ has joined #openstack-meeting21:15
devanandarussellb: so then i'd like to give an update :)21:15
russellbok cool, anyone else who wants to report, just ping me and i'll put you in the queue21:15
russellbdevananda: you're up!21:15
senhuangi can report the scheduling subteam21:15
n0anoscheduler - what if we give a meeting an nobody comes :-)  Due to various issues we kind of missed this week.21:15
devanandabaremetal -21:15
devanandafolks in #tripleo have been pounding on it. it mostly works21:16
devanandaon a whole rack21:16
senhuangn0ano: sorry i missed the meeting due to webchat connection issue21:16
devanandabut doesn't recover from errors21:16
devanandahence bugs ^ :)21:16
devanandaironic -21:16
devanandait's alive! there's code in gerrit and unit tests21:16
n0anosenhuang, multiple people (including me) had connectivity issues, we hope to do better next week.21:16
devanandaand once I figure out how to tell jenkins, it'll have pep8 and stuff21:16
devanandaalso, i'm not sure i can write it all by Havana,21:17
senhuangn0ano: my issue was that i used the webchat client which was down on tuesday..21:17
devanandaso i'm hoping more people will start writing (and they're stepping forward this week)21:17
devanandadb - dripton asked for meetings to start again21:17
harlowjaas far as stuff that i'm doing, good progress :)21:17
*** p4tux has joined #openstack-meeting21:17
harlowjahoping to target cinder for H2 with some cases, nova if people can to21:18
rmkWe need a libvirt subteam.  Don't know what the process is for forming one.21:18
mikalrmk: I think you just start one!21:18
harlowjathe cinder people want to hopefully use the library for all workflows in cinder by end of H, we'll see :)21:18
mikalrmk: I'm come to your meetings if they're at an ok time for me.21:18
*** salv-orlando has joined #openstack-meeting21:18
rmkGreat.  Then I have a report.  Many brokens!  We must fix!21:18
n0anormk, all it takes is one committed person to find a spot and organize things on the mailing list.21:19
senhuangFor the instancegroup api extension blueprint, gary has submitted a set of patches for reviews.21:19
russellbsorry, was gone for a few minutes, internet died and had to switch to tethering :(21:20
rmkJoking aside, this is a major issue and we need to figure out what the appropriate direction is for a fix --
russellbrmk: ok, can come back to it in open discussion in a bit21:21
*** eglynn has joined #openstack-meeting21:21
rmkOK, cool.21:21
russellbsenhuang: done with scheduling?21:21
*** tong|2 has quit IRC21:21
senhuangrussellb: yep21:21
russellbhartsocks: did you get to go (missed a few minutes)21:22
*** gorozco1_ has joined #openstack-meeting21:22
*** p4tux has quit IRC21:22
hartsocksrussellb: The VMwareAPI guys are just getting rolling. Not much to say yet.21:22
russellbhartsocks: alright, thanks21:22
harlowjarussellb crap, didn't see that u were gonna call in order, my fault21:22
russellbbut you have a weekly meeting going, that's good to see21:22
russellbharlowja: did you already go?21:22
harlowjaah, ya, i put some stuff on, my fault, didn't see the we are ordering this message21:23
russellbit's ok21:23
hartsocksI'll just leave this here if anybody is interested.21:24
russellbhartsocks: cool21:24
russellb#topic open discussion21:24
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:24
russellbmikal: any thoughts on the bug rmk posted a bit ago?21:24
comstudshould we discuss anything about these dynamic flavors?21:24
comstudor just leave it on-list?21:24
mikalrussellb: /me looks21:24
russellbcomstud: we can, can be next topic21:25
*** dolphm has joined #openstack-meeting21:25
comstud#vote no21:25
russellbno vote for you.21:25
rmkSo the problem here is that right now any pre-grizzly instances will fail to live block migrate on Grizzly.21:25
mikalrmk: I have a change out for this too21:25
rmkmikal: I linked the change unless there's a new one?21:26
mikalrmk: oh wait, that _is_ my change21:26
russellbmikal: LaunchpadSync ate it21:26
mikalrmk: LOL21:26
*** dnoll has quit IRC21:26
mikalrmk: I was going to pick that one up again today21:26
russellbmikal: awesome21:26
rmkmikal: Yes.  It was abandoned, so I figured we should discuss what needs to be done to get it moving forward.21:26
rmkOK works for me21:26
mikalrmk: that was about be being super busy, not a lack of intent21:27
russellbto be clear, my comment on there wasn't a -1 to the approach21:27
mikalI am full of intent, just lacking in the action department21:27
russellbjust that you have to tweak the handling to not throw random exceptions if the data isn't there21:27
*** jrodom has joined #openstack-meeting21:27
rmkJust figured if there was an architectural concern about the approach it would be a good time to discuss21:27
russellbmikal just needs minions21:27
mikalI think its minor, I just need to get around to doing the tweak21:27
rmksounds good21:28
russellbcool, and if for some reason you can't get to it, yell and i'll help find someone else to take it21:28
russellbbut sounds like it's not too much21:28
*** dwcramer has quit IRC21:28
mikalFor sure21:28
*** dwcramer has joined #openstack-meeting21:29
russellbk, so comstud suggested we talk dynamic flavors21:29
russellba thread is going on openstack-dev about this21:29
russellbcomstud: comments?21:29
harlowjai can also suggest we talk about state-management stuff :)21:29
russellbharlowja: that's what the state mgmt meeting is for :)21:30
comstudwell, i didn't really suggest it21:30
comstudI asked if we *should* talk about it21:30
russellbcomstud: heh, ok..21:30
*** mjfork has joined #openstack-meeting21:30
comstudI dunno if there's enough people here to do it or not21:30
*** jasondot_ has quit IRC21:30
russellbwell.  take a look, review the proposal, and review dansmith's suggestion for a slightly different approach21:30
russellbpost comments to the thread if you have them21:30
comstudbut thought I'd bring it up if enough people had interest in discussing it21:30
comstudMainly I guess it's good to just bring attention to it here21:31
russellbyeah, to go into much detail we need the most active people on the thread21:31
comstudlike you just did!21:31
russellbyeah, that's good21:31
russellbhard to catch every thread, so good to bring attention to important ones for nova21:31
russellbany other topics for open discussion?21:31
russellbone other thread that's worth looking at is 'virt driver management'21:32
russellbsome ideas being thrown around on the future of how to support things that aren't really nova managing a hypervisor node directlyh21:32
russellbmore like connecting to existing virt management systems21:32
russellbso, could impact vCenter, future hyper-v work, oVirt if that code gets submitted (was presented at summit), and others, i'm sure21:33
jog0some food for thought about: comstud has a good comment  on it.21:33
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1178008 in nova "publish_service_capabilities does a fanout to all nova-compute" [Undecided,Triaged]21:33
russellbyes, i want that to die21:33
russellbi pretty much want fanout to die21:34
jog0I am hoping to attack this in H2 timeframe21:34
jog0but welcome to others jumping in21:34
russellbthat's great21:34
hartsocksinteresting problem21:34
russellbwe actually have fanout going both directions between compute <-> scheduler21:34
russellbwould be nice to remove both21:35
jog0russellb: what fans out the other way?21:35
russellbwhich way21:35
jog0scheduler -> compute fanout21:36
russellbscheduler does a fanout to say "HEY COMPUTES, GIMME YO STATE"21:36
russellbwhen a scheduler node first starts up21:36
jog0russellb: ahh21:36
*** mriedem has left #openstack-meeting21:36
comstudon startup21:36
jog0oh right21:36
russellbit's just once ... but still21:36
hartsocksso… why not pub-sub?21:36
russellbwell, it is pub-sub, actually ...21:37
*** markmcclain has joined #openstack-meeting21:37
comstudheh yeah, it is21:37
senhuangit is hard-corded pub-sub21:37
russellbpretty much :-)21:37
comstudThere's not much reason for these messages anymore..21:37
russellbyeah that's good to know21:37
comstudthe scheduler gets most of it from the DB now21:37
comstudand I think the remaining shit should move there too21:38
hartsocksOkay. NOW I get it.21:38
russellbjog0: thanks for chasing this21:38
*** bpb2 has joined #openstack-meeting21:38
russellbi think there's only one more use of fanout_cast in nova21:38
russellbin network somewhere IIRC ...21:38
jog0russellb: np21:38
comstudI do use fanout for cells broadcasts21:39
russellbbut i'm less concerned about fanout for nova-network, since it's being deprecated21:39
russellbcomstud: orly ... well in that case we expect a relatively small number of cells services21:39
russellbso not a huge deal21:39
comstudyes, it's not a problem21:39
comstudor at least should not be21:39
comstudi use it to broadcast capabilities and capacities..21:40
russellbon a somewhat related note ... i think quantum agents (the things that run on compute nodes) consume notifications for every time anything gets created/updated/deleted on the quantum server :-(21:40
russellbwhcih is basically fanout to every compute node ...21:40
comstudbut it's from very few nova-cells to very few nova-cells21:40
*** ttrifonov is now known as ttrifonov_zZzz21:40
* jog0 sighs 21:40
russellbcomstud: yeah, so i think that's ok21:40
comstudthey come from the immediately children cells only.21:40
comstudnot every single cell.21:40
comstudfor instance.21:41
russellbjog0: yeah ... at least for the open source plugins (linux bridge, openvswitch, AFAIK)21:41
*** ryanpetr_ has quit IRC21:41
jog0russellb:  I am not sure what bluehost did for quantum, but they said for nova they replaced the scheduler because fanouts from 16k compute nodes to single threaded nova-schedulers broke them21:41
jog0but I bet bluehost did something about the fanouts in quantum too21:42
russellbjog0: they have large failure rates for the quantum messaging21:42
russellbit's bad21:42
jog0russellb: heh21:42
russellbsomething to keep in mind for our nova-network -> quantum migration ... i think ti's going to be a scale issue21:42
senhuangjog0: they used mysql slaves for read requests21:43
russellbcomstud: so the only other problem with fanout is with the trusted-messaging work.21:43
russellbcomstud: when a message doesn't have a single recipient, you can't secure it quite the same21:43
jog0senhuang: I think that was only part of the solution21:43
comstudrussellb: this is true21:43
russellbcomstud: but i'm sure we could update the cells stuff to message cells directly for that when we come to it21:44
comstudi think it's nearly the same problem..21:44
comstudas a general topic consumer ?21:44
senhuangjog0: true. they also changed the queueing mechanism? i21:44
*** krtaylor has quit IRC21:44
comstudor maybe it's not a problem?21:44
russellbcomstud: same problem21:44
russellblimitation, really21:45
*** gorozco1_ is now known as p4tux21:45
russellbwhat else can we rant about?  :-)21:45
cburgessThats a dangerous question.21:45
hartsockswater is very wet...21:46
jog0senhuang: here is there code
russellbgerrit was down for a few minutes today, i didn't know what to do with myself21:46
russellbthe mysql read slave thing is being worked on to go into havana-121:46
*** stevemar has quit IRC21:46
russellbyay for that.21:46
senhuangjog0: nice. their work is indeed very interesting!21:47
*** digitalsanctum has quit IRC21:48
*** sushils has quit IRC21:48
russellbgeekinutah is from there, and has been hanging out in -nova, feel free to thank him for sharing :-)21:48
russellbalright, thank you all for coming.  #openstack-nova is open all week for spontaneous discussion21:49
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"21:49
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 16 21:49:16 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:49
openstackMinutes (text):
*** tpatil has quit IRC21:51
*** hartsocks has left #openstack-meeting21:51
*** sushils has joined #openstack-meeting21:51
*** melwitt has left #openstack-meeting21:53
*** maoy has quit IRC21:54
*** joel-coffman has quit IRC21:54
*** afazekas has quit IRC21:55
*** lloydde has quit IRC21:55
devanandaany folks around who want to talk about db-specific stuff in a few minutes?21:55
devanandanot that I've prepared anything, but dripton brought it up on -dev earlier ... :)21:55
*** pcm__ has joined #openstack-meeting21:56
driptonI'm here if anyone else is.21:56
*** pcm__ has quit IRC21:56
*** pcm__ has joined #openstack-meeting21:56
*** geekinutah has joined #openstack-meeting21:57
*** lloydde has joined #openstack-meeting21:57
nati_uenodevananda: sorry OpenStack Networking VPN team want to use here from 3 pm21:58
*** adrian_otto has joined #openstack-meeting21:58
pcm__nati_ueno:  hi!21:58
*** Swami has joined #openstack-meeting21:58
devanandanati_ueno: oh! i haven't seen that on the calendar21:58
nati_uenodevananda: Ah sorry, i didn't updated the calendar21:59
devanandanati_ueno: i've proposed to move db team meeting to a different time for next week anyhow21:59
nati_uenodevananda: Ah sorry I thought DB team meeting is from 2pm - 3pm (PST)21:59
*** changbl has quit IRC21:59
devanandafolks here forr db discussion, let's go back to nova21:59
driptondevananda: ack21:59
devanandanati_ueno: nova meeting is 2 - 3pm21:59
nati_uenodevananda: and DB meeting is 3 - 4pm ?22:00
nati_uenodevananda: if so we will move22:00
nati_uenofor #openstack-meeting-alt22:00
*** dwcramer has quit IRC22:00
devanandanati_ueno: it was :) no worries, we already want to move to another time. you can stay :)22:00
geekinutahdevananda: back to #openstack-nova ?22:01
nati_uenodevananda: ah sorry about that. Thanks!22:01
*** melwitt has joined #openstack-meeting22:01
*** neelashah has quit IRC22:01
nati_uenopcm__: markmcclain: Swami: hi22:01
pcm__hi all22:01
Swamihi everyone22:02
*** lcheng2 has quit IRC22:02
*** geekinutah has left #openstack-meeting22:02
*** francois_eleouet has joined #openstack-meeting22:02
*** bpb2 has quit IRC22:02
nati_uenook let's get started22:03
nati_ueno#startmeeting OpenStack Networking (VPN)22:03
openstackMeeting started Thu May 16 22:03:36 2013 UTC.  The chair is nati_ueno. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Networking (VPN))"22:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_networking__vpn_'22:03
*** dolphm has quit IRC22:04
nati_uenoThis is today's agenda
nati_uenoit looks like Satin is not yet22:05
nati_uenoso let's start reviewing from Driver archtecture
nati_ueno#topic ipsec driver archtecture22:05
*** openstack changes topic to "ipsec driver archtecture (Meeting topic: OpenStack Networking (VPN))"22:05
*** sthakkar has joined #openstack-meeting22:06
nati_uenoSo do you have comment's for this bp?22:06
sthakkarhi folks sorry running a few min late22:06
Swaminachi: I don't see any issues with your design, I think it follows the existing LBaaS model22:07
nati_uenosthakkar: noop :) we are discussing Driver archtecture
nati_uenomarkmcclain: do you have comments on this?22:07
nati_uenosthakkar: This is today's agenda This is today's agenda
markmcclainsorry this is first time I've had a chance to look at it22:08
markmcclainI'll a bit of time to digest it :)22:08
nati_uenomarkmcclain: gotcha22:08
pcm__nati_ueno:  just some Qs (to give Mark tiem to look :)22:08
nati_uenopcm__: OK please22:08
pcm__on the create, the driver gets the host that the router is running on.22:09
nati_uenopcm__: yes22:09
pcm__Then checks the port is created. Is this the port on the network side of the router, vs VM side?22:09
nati_uenopcm__: router side22:10
*** ladquin is now known as ladquin_psb22:10
pcm__if not created, what happens?22:10
nati_uenopcm__: set status of the VPNService error state22:10
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting22:11
Swaminachi: In your slide 3 you mentioned that create vpn service calls the IPsecVPNDriver, in my opinion, only if there is a connection associated with the VPNService we need to call the Driver, otherwise we don't need to call the driver.22:12
nati_uenoSwami: ah no. We will call agent when connection associated22:12
*** senhuang has quit IRC22:13
*** markpeek has quit IRC22:13
nati_uenoOK anyway i'll start implementation on next week or next next week.22:14
SwamiNachi: In your slide 3 there are two drivers one "IPSecVPNDriver" before the agent and another driver "StrongSwan Driver". - why do we need two drivers.22:14
nati_uenoso please give me your feedbacks22:14
markmcclainyeah.. I was going to ask the same time22:14
nati_uenoSwami: IPSecVPNDriver is server side driver22:14
markmcclainthe StrongSwan driver should be subclass of IPSecDriver22:14
*** amyt has quit IRC22:14
nati_uenoStrongSwan Driver is agent side driver22:15
nati_uenoso API is different22:15
pcm__On the dwg on page 2, both drivers are in the agent block?22:15
nati_uenopcm__: page2 is wrong. sorry I updated it22:16
*** jog0 has quit IRC22:16
nati_uenoso may be in future IPSecDriver will call another implementation of agent side driver22:16
pcm__just trying to understand the mapping of the block diagram to the items in the ladder diagram (and where the RPC boundary is - sorry not yet familiar with LBaaS and others)22:16
SwamiInstead of calling it as IPseDriver just name it as IPsecCallback functions22:16
*** jog0 has joined #openstack-meeting22:17
*** jog0 has quit IRC22:17
nati_uenoSwami: We will add another VPN's driver here. SSLDriver, MPLSDriver. so "driver" illustrates what's we wanna do22:17
nati_uenoSwami: callback sound22:18
nati_ueno's not plugablle22:18
*** jpeeler has quit IRC22:19
nati_uenoMay be I should call StrongSwanDriver as StrongSwanDeviceDriver22:19
*** jpeeler has joined #openstack-meeting22:19
*** jpeeler has joined #openstack-meeting22:19
Swamithat works22:19
markmcclainyeah I think that seems reasonable22:19
nati_uenoOK anyway i'll start implementation on next week or next next week, so please keep review it :)22:20
nati_uenoI wanna also have quick discussion of
nati_uenoso how we create agent22:21
nati_uenoI believe current proposal is
nati_uenoHowever looks more good for me22:21
markmcclaindo we need a separate agent or should this service be colocated with the l3 namespace?22:21
nati_uenothe service should be colocated with the l3 namespace22:21
nati_uenofor first implementation22:22
markmcclainright.. so it's a subclass of the l3_agent?22:22
*** jog0 has joined #openstack-meeting22:22
nati_uenomarkmcclain: it is under the discussion. May be two different process will manage one namespace such as Option3 in the google doc22:23
markmcclainhaving two processes manage the namespace will introduce different race conditions22:23
nati_uenomarkmcclain: yes. I agree22:23
nati_uenoso I prefer Option2-2 in the google doc22:24
SwamiAre other services following the same model22:25
markmcclainSwami: no22:25
nati_uenoSwami: yes. let's keep discussion on the mailing list about this service agent one22:25
markmcclainFWaaS will be implemented in L3 agent22:25
Swamido we need to align with other services22:25
markmcclainyes.. but that alignment will happen in H222:25
*** jrodom has quit IRC22:26
markmcclainthat's why think we should go option 1 for now22:26
nati_uenoI'm start discussion with Sumit also22:26
nati_uenoFWaaS looks
markmcclainnati_ueno: it's actually more than just a discussion with Sumit22:26
nati_uenomarkmcclain: ah discussion means in the mailing list22:27
*** sarob_ has joined #openstack-meeting22:27
markmcclainyeah.. but I don't want to bog either team down discussing option2 yet22:27
markmcclainbecause it introduces complexities that can really hamper progress22:27
markmcclainremember we need to start simple and get things working end to end22:28
markmcclainif we do thing right we can move the logic in option to support services in option 2 later22:28
*** adrian_otto has quit IRC22:28
nati_uenomarkmcclain: I got your point. so we start implement directory in the l3-agent?22:28
*** sarob__ has joined #openstack-meeting22:28
markmcclainthat's my preference22:28
*** sarob_ has quit IRC22:28
markmcclaingives us a chance to validate api and driver interface22:29
nati_uenoOk so how about implement vpn also in the l3-agent?22:29
*** jog0 has quit IRC22:29
nati_uenoIf vpn-agent will touch the router namespace, we should do it in the l3-agent22:29
markmcclainyeah.. a subclass of the l3 agent should work to start out22:29
markmcclainwe can clean things up later in the cycle22:29
nati_uenomarkmcclain: +122:29
Swamithat makes sense22:29
nati_uenoOK next topic is22:30
pcm__markmcclain: You mentions FWaaS doing option 1? How far are they (as in, is there something I can look at)?22:30
nati_ueno#topic local_subnet vs local_cidr22:30
*** openstack changes topic to "local_subnet vs local_cidr (Meeting topic: OpenStack Networking (VPN))"22:30
*** sarob has quit IRC22:31
nati_uenopcm__: They just started, so IMO there is no code yet22:31
markmcclainpcm__: they're not too far in yet22:31
pcm__nati_ueno: Is LBaaS there?22:31
nati_uenopcm__: not yet22:32
markmcclainLBaaS uses a 1 arm model22:32
pcm__(just looking for reference material)22:32
markmcclainso it's not routed yet22:32
*** jog0 has joined #openstack-meeting22:32
nati_uenoOK let's continue discussion of local_subnet vs local_cidr22:32
nati_uenoIn previous meeting, we discussed local_subnet vs local_cidr22:33
nati_uenoalso we should use "cidr" value or "Subnet ID"22:33
markmcclainso I've been thinking about this :)22:33
nati_uenomarkmcclain: Thanks. so do you have update?22:33
sthakkarso basically do we integrate with the ipam system or use explicit values22:33
nati_uenosthakkar: exactly22:33
sthakkarwhat would happen if we support both?22:34
nati_uenosthakkar: That's one option22:34
markmcclainsthakkar: it's messy22:34
sthakkarbut im worried if we integrate with ipam we lose a few folks in the shuffle22:34
Swamiwe should stick on to the cidr for now22:34
markmcclainsthakkar: we don't necessarily have to integrate with IPAM22:34
nati_uenoso we need to satisfy  Usecase1 sub-area of cidr Usecase2 aggregation22:34
*** matiu has joined #openstack-meeting22:35
*** matiu has quit IRC22:35
*** matiu has joined #openstack-meeting22:35
markmcclainbut the cidrs on the local end should be defined in one place22:35
markmcclainnati_ueno: the problem with say using a /27 of /2422:35
markmcclainis how is traffic routed?22:35
nati_uenoin the remote side22:35
nati_uenoso let's say is routed to the OpenStack side22:36
markmcclainnot the remote side22:36
markmcclainon the local side22:36
*** rnirmal has quit IRC22:36
nati_uenoThis is local subnets which is sent to the remote side.22:36
nati_uenoso it is not used in the local side22:36
markmcclainright but that introduces routing issues22:37
*** lbragstad has quit IRC22:37
nati_uenomarkmcclain: which kind of routing issue?22:37
markmcclainso if declare a smaller subnet on the local end22:38
markmcclainthere will be instances where a guest will think the address is local22:38
markmcclainso won't forward the packet the gateway22:38
nati_uenoyou mean remote side?22:39
markmcclainI thought the local cidrs could be smaller than the local subnet22:40
nati_uenoI wrote diagram
nati_uenolet's use this slide as whiteboard22:42
markmcclainwhat slide #?22:44
nati_uenopage 322:44
nati_uenoThis is what is in my mental model22:45
*** flaper87 has quit IRC22:45
*** dolphm has joined #openstack-meeting22:45
nati_uenoAnd I suppose it works22:45
SwamiThis should work22:45
*** ryanpetrello has joined #openstack-meeting22:45
*** rwsu has joined #openstack-meeting22:46
markmcclainI not sure I under why you'd export a /30 to the remote end22:46
*** eglynn has quit IRC22:47
markmcclainhow does the remote talk to something that within the /2422:47
markmcclainwhat happens if the there's a guest that has an address that shares the net address of the /30?22:47
nati_uenoremote can talk only within /3022:47
nati_uenothis is intent of the usecase22:48
markmcclainbut that use case is different from VPC22:49
pcm__so tenant may want to provide VPN only for some clients?22:49
markmcclainor even if you're following say a vyatta instance locally22:49
*** dolphm has quit IRC22:49
nati_uenopcm__: yes22:49
nati_uenoI added application on the VM22:50
markmcclainit seems if someone wants to provide VPN only they can create a subnet special for the client22:50
pcm__markmcclain: Does VPC  just do whole subnet?22:50
*** otherwiseguy has quit IRC22:51
*** radez is now known as radez_g0n322:51
*** shengjie has joined #openstack-meeting22:51
SwamiVPC does not provide an option for the local side but it only requests prefixes for the remote side22:51
nati_uenoSwami: so which local side subnet will be advatized?22:51
nati_uenoSwami: ah this is not bgp, so we need manual configuration for remote side?22:51
nati_uenoso why we need local_cidr for first implementation if it has no bgp22:52
nati_uenoSwami: any thought?22:53
markmcclainsthakkar or pcm__ too?22:54
SwamiI thought we can just live it as it is for now.22:54
pcm__markmcclain: got nothing here :)22:55
*** jog0 has quit IRC22:55
markmcclainif we drop the field right now we won't have to write validation code22:55
*** mlavalle has quit IRC22:55
nati_uenomarkmcclain: I agree22:55
markmcclainif we need it later on.. migrations are fairly easy to implement22:56
sthakkarI think looking through most systems22:56
sthakkarits the full subnet22:56
Swamiso in this case we will fetch the full subnet from the subnet id and just drop the local_cidr field22:56
*** UTrGm has joined #openstack-meeting22:56
nati_ueno+1 for first step22:56
Swami+1 agreed22:56
nati_uenoAnd let's keep discussion for this until we start implement bgp mode22:57
nati_uenohowever we should agree on peer_cidr or peer_subnet22:57
markmcclain+1 for first step22:57
nati_uenoso subnet on peer is out of management of quantum ipam22:57
markmcclainthe subnet term is too overload within Quantum22:57
nati_uenook I should say22:58
nati_uenoso cidr on peer is out of management of quantum ipam22:58
nati_uenoso we should use cidr value for peer_cidr22:58
*** jlucci has quit IRC22:58
Swami+1 for peer_cidr22:58
markmcclainyeah.. otherwise we'd have to add the notion of remote networks and subnets to Quantum22:58
*** jlucci has joined #openstack-meeting22:58
sthakkari think qin's comparison was primarily for standardization with other devices as _subnets or _networks22:58
nati_ueno+1 for peer_cidr22:58
markmcclainthat is another discussion for another time :)22:58
sthakkarbut we could potentially go for _ipsubnets as well22:59
sthakkarim okay whichever way for this name, users will figure it out22:59
*** danwent has joined #openstack-meeting22:59
sthakkarok lets leave it as cidrs then for now23:00
*** shengjie has quit IRC23:00
nati_uenook so let's keep peer_cidr23:00
markmcclainremember the first version is somewhat experiment23:00
*** UTrGm has quit IRC23:00
pcm__and can be > 1?23:00
markmcclainif the feedback comes back that we need remote_subnets we can change it23:00
nati_uenoso it looks 1 hour goes23:01
nati_uenoWhen we discuss next time?23:01
nati_uenowe should move over the other discussion in next time or mailing list.23:01
nati_uenoNext monday 5PM (PST) ?23:02
pcm__OK for me.23:02
sthakkarlets start discussing over the mailer23:02
sthakkarim fine for 5pm monday23:02
Swamiworks for me.23:02
sthakkarif we need another session23:02
markmcclainyeah.. I good for 5pm23:02
markmcclainwe do have a good direction, so it might make sense to skip a week and let some work be done23:02
nati_uenoOK so next time is 5/21 5pm PST23:03
markmcclainthe dev process might raise some ?s that we can kick around23:03
sthakkaryea im fine with that too23:03
SwamiYou mentioned Monday - it is 5/2023:03
nati_uenomarkmcclain: I'm start feeling too23:03
sthakkargo mailer only for the next 7-10 days23:03
sthakkarand if there are a ton of open questions during dev23:03
sthakkarwe schedule a follow up23:03
*** epim has quit IRC23:03
nati_uenoOK so let's continue discussion on the Swami's review requirement or mine23:03
nati_uenoI feel We are making good progress :)23:04
Swaminachi: Our next meeting is on Monday or tuesday23:04
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || Development in #openstack-dev || Help in #openstack"23:04
pcm__Guy, any suggestions on other feature's code I should look at for a reference model, of sorts?23:04
sthakkarsounds good. sorry i may have missed it earlier in the meeting, Swami is your code out for review yet?23:04
openstackMeeting ended Thu May 16 23:04:26 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)23:04
openstackMinutes (text):
*** Tross has quit IRC23:04
*** Mandell has quit IRC23:04
nati_uenoSwami: next meeting is canceled23:04
*** eharney has quit IRC23:04
Swamisthakkar: I will upload the code on Monday, I am doing some clean up work23:05
*** shengjie has joined #openstack-meeting23:05
sthakkarkk cool thanks23:05
sthakkarok guys until next time23:05
nati_uenosee you! bye!23:05
*** Swami has quit IRC23:05
*** sthakkar has quit IRC23:05
pcm__nachi_ueno: Any suggestions of feature's code I should look at as a ref model?23:06
*** keith_bray has quit IRC23:06
*** francois_eleouet has left #openstack-meeting23:06
nati_uenopcm__: let's start write it together after we finish Swami's patch23:07
nati_uenopcm__: Until them, dhcp-agent l3-agent lbbas-agent code will be ref model23:07
pcm__nachi_ueno: Thanks. Just need to start seeing how these typically go together.23:08
*** jogo has joined #openstack-meeting23:08
*** markmcclain has quit IRC23:10
*** garyTh has quit IRC23:10
nati_uenopcm__: gotcha :)23:10
pcm__nati_ueno: TTLY23:11
*** stevemar has joined #openstack-meeting23:13
*** pcm__ has quit IRC23:14
*** KernelDog has joined #openstack-meeting23:14
*** p4tux has quit IRC23:15
*** p4tux has joined #openstack-meeting23:16
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting23:17
*** jogo has quit IRC23:18
*** p4tux has quit IRC23:20
*** jogo has joined #openstack-meeting23:20
*** sushils has quit IRC23:20
*** ryanpetrello has quit IRC23:21
*** jogo is now known as jog023:22
*** markpeek has quit IRC23:23
*** mjs has quit IRC23:26
*** markpeek has joined #openstack-meeting23:28
*** stevemar has quit IRC23:29
*** markpeek has quit IRC23:30
*** lindj_ has quit IRC23:31
*** sudorandom has quit IRC23:32
*** jog0 has quit IRC23:32
*** jog0 has joined #openstack-meeting23:32
*** carlp-away is now known as carlp23:34
nati_uenopleia2: ttyl!23:37
*** KernelDog has quit IRC23:37
*** DNQcj has joined #openstack-meeting23:39
*** melwitt has left #openstack-meeting23:39
*** shengjie has quit IRC23:40
*** DNQcj has quit IRC23:43
*** anniec has quit IRC23:43
*** salv-orlando_ has joined #openstack-meeting23:47
*** salv-orlando has quit IRC23:47
*** salv-orlando_ is now known as salv-orlando23:47
*** lloydde has quit IRC23:53
*** sarob__ has quit IRC23:53
*** adrian_otto has joined #openstack-meeting23:53
*** sarob has joined #openstack-meeting23:54
*** sarob has quit IRC23:58
*** jog0 has quit IRC23:58
*** IlyaE has quit IRC23:59

Generated by 2.14.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!