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| markmc | #startmeeting oslo | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Fri Jun 7 14:00:35 2013 UTC. The chair is markmc. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'oslo' | 14:00 |
| markmc | roll up, roll up | 14:00 |
| markmc | who's around? | 14:00 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 14:00 |
| zyluo | hi | 14:00 |
| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/Messaging | 14:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 14:00 |
| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/Messaging | 14:01 |
| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo | 14:01 |
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| * markmc will wait a minute or two for others | 14:01 | |
| jd__ | o/ | 14:02 |
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| * jd__ . o O (hey a meeting, let's join!) | 14:02 | |
| markmc | jd__, :) | 14:02 |
| markmc | lbragstad, hey | 14:02 |
| markmc | again, etherpad is https://etherpad.openstack.org/HavanaOsloMessaging | 14:03 |
| markmc | I've pinged simo | 14:03 |
| markmc | no sign of ewindisch | 14:03 |
| dhellmann | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/HavanaOsloMessaging | 14:03 |
| markmc | or markwash | 14:03 |
| lbragstad | markmc hey | 14:03 |
| markmc | beagles maybe ? | 14:04 |
| markmc | ok, let's get going | 14:04 |
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| lbragstad | mrodden: here? | 14:04 |
| markmc | so, it's been about a month since the last meeting | 14:04 |
| markmc | I've listed the updates that have happened since then in the etherpad | 14:04 |
| beagles | o/ | 14:04 |
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| markmc | I think that's pretty solid progress, but a pity we don't have unit tests or a real driver yet | 14:05 |
| markmc | so, I think they're definitely the next big things to tackle | 14:05 |
| markmc | anyone got any thoughts? | 14:05 |
| markmc | the "executor" name was the only thing I could think of worth hashing out here | 14:06 |
| lbragstad | specifically, where are you looking for unit test contribution in oslo? | 14:06 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 14:06 |
| markmc | apart from "who's got time to do what?" | 14:06 |
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| * dhellmann goes to remind himself what the executor does | 14:07 | |
| markmc | lbragstad, this is about the new messaging API we're working on here: https://github.com/markmc/oslo-incubator/tree/messaging | 14:07 |
| markmc | dhellmann, polls the listener for messages, and then passes them to the dispatcher | 14:07 |
| lbragstad | ok | 14:07 |
| dhellmann | markmc: what's the best branch to look at in your github repo? | 14:07 |
| markmc | dhellmann, the messaging branch | 14:07 |
| dhellmann | #link https://github.com/markmc/oslo-incubator/tree/messaging/openstack/common/messaging | 14:08 |
| flaper87 | I agree that unittest should be tackled down next | 14:08 |
| markmc | dhellmann, the messaging-rebasing branch is me cleaning up the patch set to something which could be submitted to gerrit | 14:08 |
| dhellmann | ah, got it | 14:08 |
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| lbragstad | markmc do these changes get pushed to a gerrit? | 14:08 |
| markmc | lbragstad, they will do soon, once we have unit tests and a real driver | 14:08 |
| lbragstad | ok, cool, so for right now we are just pushing to your branch | 14:09 |
| flaper87 | I was thinking the other day whether it would make sense to have the executor's code as a separate package in oslo. Can we abstract it a bit more? There are some projects (and here I'm speacking about glance) that might benefit from an "Executor" package without the queue / rpc part. | 14:09 |
| dhellmann | markmc: do you like "Receiver" better as a name? I don't remember where Executor came from, but it seems like it was mirroring a name used in another library somewhere. | 14:09 |
| markmc | dhellmann, eventlet executor has a thread that polls for messages and then methods are dispatched in a thread per message | 14:09 |
| markmc | dhellmann, I think the idea you had was to mirror http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3148/#executor | 14:10 |
| dhellmann | ah, yeah, that's probably it. Did I come up with that name? :-) | 14:10 |
| markmc | dhellmann, i.e. we've got an executor that we use to call the dispatcher | 14:10 |
| markmc | dhellmann, and whether that's a greenthread or a real thread or whatever depends on what executor you use | 14:10 |
| dhellmann | ah, right | 14:10 |
| markmc | dhellmann, except we do a bit more than that in our executor | 14:10 |
| markmc | lbragstad, right, pull requests for now | 14:11 |
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| dhellmann | flaper87: how would glance use this without the rpc part? | 14:11 |
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| markmc | flaper87, I'm not sure what about executors are reusable outside of messaging | 14:11 |
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| dhellmann | markmc: In your blog post (I think) you brought up a question about how much of the executor's behavior would need to be exposed to code outside of the rpc library. For cooperative multitasking, for example. | 14:12 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: We're thinking about having async workers in glance and I'm afraid we'll end up writing yet another (Async)TaskExecutor implementation | 14:12 |
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| markmc | dhellmann, I'm thinking we have BlockingRPCServer, EventletRPCserver, TulipRPCServer, etc. | 14:12 |
| dhellmann | I'd like to avoid that, but perhaps the "current executor" should be accessible and have a public API so tasks can yield the context, etc.? | 14:13 |
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| markmc | dhellmann, the server methods definitely need to be written with knowledge about what executor is going to be used | 14:13 |
| markmc | dhellmann, e.g. if you're using the tulip executor, you'll need to write the methods as coroutines | 14:14 |
| markmc | dhellmann, but I don't think you need to actually talk directly to the executor | 14:14 |
| simo | markmc: can'twe assume threatds ? | 14:14 |
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| dhellmann | markmc: I thought putting that info in the executor would mean we could avoid having separate server implementations | 14:15 |
| markmc | dhellmann, in the case of tulip, you might want to talk to the right event loop ... but you'd pass the event loop to the TulipRPCServer constructor | 14:15 |
| dhellmann | but maybe not | 14:15 |
| markmc | dhellmann, basically, I'm thinking we don't expose an interface to the executor | 14:15 |
| markmc | dhellmann, just the ability to choose an executor | 14:15 |
| markmc | dhellmann, i.e. "I'm using tulip, give me an RPCServer that does the right thing" | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | I thought the goal was to have the executor encapsulate all of that, so the server could be reused | 14:16 |
| markmc | simo, no, I don't think we want to use threads by default | 14:16 |
| dhellmann | do you think that's not possible? | 14:16 |
| markmc | the server is being re-used | 14:16 |
| markmc | totally | 14:16 |
| simo | markmc: I won;t insist, but I have done async programming for 10 years now | 14:16 |
| simo | markmc: it's a world of hurt, not worth for anything really complex | 14:17 |
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| simo | it's very good for the thigns it is good at | 14:17 |
| simo | very bad for anything else | 14:17 |
| markmc | dhellmann, all EventletRPCServer does is pass executor_cls=EventletExecutor or whatever | 14:17 |
| dhellmann | sorry, not "reused" but so that we'd only need one server implementation | 14:17 |
| simo | and we are now n the 'else' camp in openstack | 14:17 |
| simo | it's too big a project | 14:17 |
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| markmc | simo, let's not play the who has more experience game | 14:17 |
| markmc | simo, openstack uses eventlet now | 14:17 |
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| simo | I am not playing it | 14:17 |
| markmc | simo, we're not going to be changing that any time soon | 14:18 |
| markmc | simo, I'd like to, but that's not the goal here | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | yes, please, let's not derail this discussion | 14:18 |
| simo | markmc: just tryuing to avoid having something built that will make it impossible to move away | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | markmc: | 14:18 |
| dhellmann | oops | 14:18 |
| markmc | simo, the point is just to design the API that we can support multiple I/O handling strategies without breaking the API | 14:18 |
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| markmc | simo, so, yes - exactly | 14:19 |
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| simo | markmc: right | 14:19 |
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| dhellmann | markmc: you said the server implementation would need to know about its executor, which made me think the servers were more than just a thin wrapper that set the executor | 14:19 |
| simo | then I am fine | 14:19 |
| markmc | simo, we can't do that by "assuming threads" | 14:19 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: that got me a bit confused as well | 14:19 |
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| simo | markmc: well it depends, in many event systems you can simply use threads right away, with just a little bit of abstraction around a 'fake' async request | 14:19 |
| markmc | dhellmann, https://github.com/markmc/oslo-incubator/blob/messaging/openstack/common/messaging/eventlet.py#L43 | 14:19 |
| markmc | simo, we can't dispatch methods to threads because openstack code is written to assume it's running in greenthreads | 14:20 |
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| simo | markmc: yeah that's the problem, we should stop asuming green threads in the medium term | 14:20 |
| dhellmann | markmc: OK. I don't think that class is necessary as it stands right now. _RPCServer could be public, and the caller could give it the executor class. | 14:20 |
| markmc | dhellmann, all I want is to avoid exposing the executor interface if we don't need to | 14:21 |
| flaper87 | markmc: is that needed? Can the Server be "executor agnostic" | 14:21 |
| flaper87 | ? | 14:21 |
| markmc | dhellmann, so we can change it | 14:21 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: you beat me | 14:21 |
| markmc | dhellmann, but also, for convenience | 14:21 |
| markmc | dhellmann, why make every openstack project have to provide executor_cls | 14:21 |
| markmc | dhellmann, rather than just use EventletRPCServer | 14:21 |
| markmc | dhellmann, would you prefer a get_eventlet_rpc_server() helper ? | 14:22 |
| markmc | dhellmann, because that's fine by me too | 14:22 |
| simo | just to make clear what is the concern here: securemessaging requires 'slow' operations, you want them in their own thread, not have them slow the whole server | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | convenience is fine, I see the point of that, and either path works | 14:22 |
| flaper87 | markmc: so basically, we'd assume that if X is using eventletServer it is capable of using EventletExecutor which works better with that serer implementation | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | but I want to make sure we don't bake something into that EventletRPCServer that knows about eventlet since that knowledge is supposed to be in the executor | 14:22 |
| dhellmann | if the server needs to do something different based on which executor it is using, then I want that to be a feature of the executor that the server uses, rather than built into the server itself | 14:23 |
| markmc | yeah, that's fair | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | not sure that's clear... | 14:23 |
| flaper87 | +1 | 14:23 |
| markmc | ok, let's go with helper factory methods things | 14:23 |
| markmc | i.e. eventlet.get_rpc_server() | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | so a wrapper class is ok, and a helper function is ok, but the helper function feels like maybe it's "safer" in that respect | 14:23 |
| dhellmann | yeah | 14:23 |
| markmc | simo, having the secure messaging stuff do its slow computation in threads is workable too | 14:24 |
| dhellmann | practical question: if we provide another eventlet implementation, how/when do we expect projects to move off of it? or do we? | 14:24 |
| markmc | simo, definitely adds a new dimension, I'll keep it in mind for sure | 14:25 |
| markmc | dhellmann, another executor you mean ? | 14:25 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: as soon as there's another executor ? | 14:25 |
| markmc | dhellmann, e.g. moving to tulip ? | 14:25 |
| flaper87 | I mean, another implementation that's a drop-in replacement for eventlet's | 14:25 |
| markmc | dhellmann, each project would need to opt-in to it | 14:25 |
| lbragstad | this might be an elementary question but, how is using eventlet.get_rpc_server() going to effect projects who are attempting to isolate eventlet dependencies? (e.g. Keystone)? | 14:26 |
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| simo | markmc: I am not going to add threading on my own | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | yes | 14:26 |
| dhellmann | I thought one of our goals was to start moving away from eventlet? Or do we think it's safe to keep using it? | 14:26 |
| markmc | lbragstad, if you do 'import openstack.common.messaging' eventlet isn't imported | 14:26 |
| simo | I would rather be able to swap out a bad greenthread implementation for a real threaded implementation in the medium term | 14:26 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: I'd prefer moving away from it | 14:26 |
| markmc | lbragstad, you have to do 'import openstack.common.messaging.eventlet' and then eventlet.get_rpc_server() | 14:26 |
| flaper87 | but I guess we'd have to first support it | 14:26 |
| markmc | lbragstad, we could have e.g. openstack.common.messaging.tulip in future | 14:26 |
| flaper87 | and then make everybody cry :P | 14:27 |
| lbragstad | ahh ok | 14:27 |
| markmc | lbragstad, basically, the eventlet dependency is not baked in | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | markmc: opt-in makes sense; I wasn't sure if that was still even a goal. | 14:27 |
| lbragstad | so projects don't *have* so use it if they don't want to | 14:27 |
| lbragstad | to* | 14:27 |
| simo | dhellmann: eventlet is bad, monkey patching is bad, non-thread service do not scale on multicore cpus | 14:27 |
| simo | dhellmann: make your conclusions | 14:27 |
| dhellmann | simo: python threads don't work across multiple cores, either | 14:28 |
| flaper87 | simo: python Threads don't use multiple cores | 14:28 |
| simo | dhellmann: the gil is being worked on though, and C helpers can wotk in parallel | 14:28 |
| markmc | simo, we use multiple processes to scale across cores | 14:28 |
| markmc | ok guys | 14:28 |
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| markmc | STOP WITH THE THREADS VS ASYNC DEBATE :) | 14:28 |
| markmc | let's move on :) | 14:28 |
| flaper87 | markmc: +1 | 14:28 |
| simo | ok::) | 14:28 |
| markmc | so | 14:29 |
| markmc | who's up with contributing to some of the outstanding tasks for the messaging stuff | 14:29 |
| dhellmann | nova imports something from eventlet outside of the common code 134 times | 14:29 |
| dhellmann | so I'm wondering if changing the rpc api is enough to make it possible to move off of eventlet :-) | 14:29 |
| flaper87 | markmc: I can help creating some of the tests | 14:30 |
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| flaper87 | but I'd say we should split them since I'd also like to get the qpid implementation done | 14:30 |
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| markmc | flaper87, if you're working on the qpid driver, I'd definitely say focus on that | 14:31 |
| flaper87 | markmc: oke-doke | 14:31 |
| markmc | flaper87, I'd love to have a real driver | 14:31 |
| flaper87 | btw, we'd have to sync with markwash, I think he was going to work on some tests | 14:31 |
| dhellmann | my plate is pretty full right now, or I would commit to working ont he rabbit driver :-/ | 14:31 |
| markmc | havana-2 is 2013-07-18 | 14:31 |
| markmc | dhellmann, ok, thanks | 14:31 |
| flaper87 | markmc: makes sense, I was kind of blocked by the URL stuff but it's merged now, I'll move on with it | 14:32 |
| markmc | if it's just me and flaper87, I'd say it's pretty unlikely we'll have in shape by then | 14:32 |
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| markmc | "in shape" == ready for e.g. nova to use it | 14:32 |
| markmc | flaper87, sorry about that | 14:32 |
| flaper87 | markmc: no worries, didn't want to complain, just update everyone | 14:32 |
| dhellmann | oh, I wanted to ask about the status of the url config discussion | 14:32 |
| markmc | before nova could use it | 14:33 |
| dhellmann | did we settle on definitely using urls? | 14:33 |
| markmc | we need the API finalized, tests and at least qpid/rabbit drivers | 14:33 |
| markmc | so, I guess it's someone keen to work on the rabbit driver we really need | 14:33 |
| markmc | dhellmann, yes, I think it's pretty well settled in there now | 14:33 |
| dhellmann | ok, good | 14:33 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: I'd say so | 14:33 |
| flaper87 | we're discussing the url format | 14:34 |
| dhellmann | do we need a migration strategy for the old config format? | 14:34 |
| flaper87 | #link https://github.com/markmc/oslo-incubator/pull/7 | 14:34 |
| markmc | dhellmann, see https://github.com/markmc/oslo-incubator/blob/messaging/openstack/common/messaging/transport.py#L78 | 14:34 |
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| markmc | ok, let's talk briefly about the URL format | 14:34 |
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| markmc | flaper87, remind me where you took the multi-host format from? | 14:34 |
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| flaper87 | markmc: right, the example I have is mongodb URI's http://docs.mongodb.org/manual/reference/connection-string/ | 14:35 |
| flaper87 | which is basically what I used | 14:35 |
| flaper87 | it chains multiple hosts separated by "," | 14:35 |
| simo | I am not sure that is a valid URI by RFC | 14:35 |
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| markmc | it probably doesn't need to be a valid URI | 14:36 |
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| flaper87 | simo: is there an RFC that supports multiple hosts / ports / credentials / options for URLs ? | 14:36 |
| markmc | we basically want a string format that encapsulates a configuration a transport driver | 14:36 |
| markmc | suitable for config files and database entries | 14:37 |
| markmc | a json dict would be ok, if we didn't want it to be human-editable in config files | 14:37 |
| simo | flaper87: probably not, because a URI represent _a_ resource | 14:38 |
| simo | multiple URIs in a json file is probably better | 14:38 |
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| markmc | ok, we're 40 minutes in | 14:39 |
| markmc | noted the json idea in the etherpad | 14:39 |
| flaper87 | so, any objections about current URI iplementation? | 14:39 |
| markmc | #topic secure messaging | 14:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "secure messaging (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:39 | |
| markmc | you're up simo :) | 14:39 |
| simo | ok | 14:39 |
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| flaper87 | awww :( next time :D | 14:39 |
| markmc | flaper87, fine for now, let's be open to doing something else IMHO | 14:39 |
| simo | I have most of the code done | 14:39 |
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| flaper87 | markmc: sure | 14:39 |
| simo | I am having some difficulty due to my lack of knowledge in properly wiring it in | 14:40 |
| simo | need to pass topic around alot | 14:40 |
| simo | and there seem to be quite a few places where stuff is intialized | 14:40 |
| simo | even in nova | 14:40 |
| markmc | interesting | 14:40 |
| simo | api seem not to use the Service thing others are using | 14:40 |
| * markmc would be happy to look at a WIP patch | 14:40 | |
| simo | I started using traceback.print_stack in serialize_msg to see where things come from | 14:40 |
| simo | markmc: one sec | 14:41 |
| * ttx lurks | 14:41 | |
| markmc | heh, good idea :) | 14:41 |
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| simo | markmc: http://fedorapeople.org/cgit/simo/public_git/oslo.git/log/?h=shared-key-msg | 14:41 |
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| simo | 3 patches | 14:41 |
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| simo | they have everything from crypto to embedded client to fetch keys from kds | 14:41 |
| markmc | simo, ah, I meant the nova integration patch | 14:41 |
| markmc | simo, I've taken a quick look at the oslo patches already, they look good at a high level | 14:42 |
| simo | kds implementation here: http://fedorapeople.org/cgit/simo/public_git/keystone.git/log/?h=shared-key-msg | 14:42 |
| markmc | ah, cool | 14:42 |
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| simo | markmc: still working on nova | 14:42 |
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| simo | I do not have a patch yet | 14:42 |
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| markmc | simo, yeah, just hard to help with "need to pass topic around a lot" without seeing it, that's all | 14:42 |
| simo | markmc: will be here once I have something: http://fedorapeople.org/cgit/simo/public_git/nova.git/log/?h=shared-key-msg | 14:43 |
| markmc | simo, even if it's a totally non-working patch | 14:43 |
| markmc | simo, ok | 14:43 |
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| simo | markmc: hard to find out indeed :) | 14:43 |
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| simo | markmc: just git grep serialize_msg | 14:43 |
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| simo | but I think for the most important cases it may be easy enough | 14:43 |
| markmc | git grep serialize_msg ... and ... ? | 14:44 |
| simo | and see where it is used | 14:44 |
| simo | I need to add the destination topic as an argument | 14:44 |
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| markmc | ah, ok - that explains it | 14:44 |
| simo | in some cases topic seem readily available in the caller | 14:44 |
| simo | the other problem though was to find out what initializes the rpc services | 14:44 |
| simo | I though Service would suffice as I set the server's own topic there | 14:45 |
| simo | but apparently nova-api uses different ways | 14:45 |
| simo | I probably just need to do something in wsgi.py | 14:45 |
| markmc | well, nova-api is just an RPC client, maybe that's the difference | 14:45 |
| simo | markmc: bottom line please make the new RPC code have a very clearly defined class you call for initialization so all these things can be plugged in there :) | 14:45 |
| markmc | simo, client side or server side ? | 14:46 |
| simo | markmc: both | 14:46 |
| markmc | ok, we have both | 14:46 |
| markmc | ok | 14:46 |
| simo | both need knowledge of their own name and key in order to be able to do any form of signing | 14:46 |
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| markmc | how is the kds work going ? | 14:46 |
| simo | markmc: basically done | 14:46 |
| markmc | is it proposed in gerrit for keystone yet ? | 14:46 |
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| simo | markmc: no I want to test it first, and there is some work going on in keystone to make it easier to add contrib stuff | 14:47 |
| simo | (I have tested it manually, it works) | 14:47 |
| simo | but want to see the whole thing runnig | 14:47 |
| markmc | what is this "contrib stuff" ? :) | 14:47 |
| simo | then a few changes ayoung have ready | 14:47 |
| markmc | would be good to get a WIP patch in gerrit anyway | 14:47 |
| simo | markmc: ayoung wants to make the kds in via 'contrib' | 14:48 |
| markmc | to allow people start looking at it | 14:48 |
| simo | it;s a place where new stuff leave | 14:48 |
| simo | guess srota of incubator | 14:48 |
| simo | *sorta | 14:48 |
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| simo | ec2 stuff is there for example | 14:48 |
| markmc | yeah | 14:48 |
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| * markmc hates "contrib" | 14:48 | |
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| markmc | we could call it "preview" or something | 14:48 |
| markmc | as long as it's in and usable | 14:48 |
| simo | well ec2 is not really preview | 14:48 |
| simo | not sure why it is not core | 14:48 |
| markmc | I know it's not | 14:48 |
| simo | I would call them just 'plugins' | 14:49 |
| markmc | that's why using "contrib" to mean two different things is silly | 14:49 |
| mordred | ++ | 14:49 |
| simo | yup, not my choice | 14:49 |
| markmc | what does "contrib" even mean for ec2 ? | 14:49 |
| markmc | yeah, I know | 14:49 |
| * markmc rants | 14:49 | |
| mordred | also, I thnk it's trying to put things in the tree without being responsibiel for them, which doesn't work | 14:49 |
| markmc | indeed | 14:49 |
| simo | markmc: the only reason why it makes sense in this case is that we want to be able to easily move kds out of keystone | 14:49 |
| simo | infact I am creating a new endopint for it | 14:49 |
| * dhellmann thinks we've drifted off topic again | 14:49 | |
| markmc | we might make a statement like "we may make incompatible changes to this in the next release" | 14:50 |
| markmc | that would be fine | 14:50 |
| mordred | dhellmann: ++ | 14:50 |
| simo | however currently I am not 'discovering' it but rather have a configuration option for olso-incubator | 14:50 |
| markmc | dhellmann, we can't merge the message security stuff without a kds | 14:50 |
| simo | because changing all the caller to also give me that info was a bit too hard for now | 14:50 |
| simo | we'll do later | 14:50 |
| markmc | so, getting an update on how likely kds is going to be merged into keystone in havana is important | 14:50 |
| simo | yup | 14:51 |
| dhellmann | I meant the "contrib" discussion | 14:51 |
| markmc | I still don't have a feeling either way of how likely this is to get in for havana | 14:51 |
| markmc | dhellmann, fair | 14:51 |
| simo | markmc: I think it is likely, but not settled 100% ye | 14:51 |
| simo | *yet | 14:51 |
| markmc | I know ttx is nervous too :) | 14:51 |
| markmc | which is why he's lurking :) | 14:51 |
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| markmc | ok | 14:51 |
| markmc | anyway, cool stuff - very nice progress | 14:51 |
| markmc | only got a few minutes left | 14:52 |
| markmc | and lbragstad had something to discuss | 14:52 |
| simo | markmc: from what I care we could put the kds in nova too :) | 14:52 |
| simo | it's pretty well self contained | 14:52 |
| markmc | #topic keystone/eventlet/notifications dependency | 14:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "keystone/eventlet/notifications dependency (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:52 | |
| markmc | simo, well, I'm open to other options | 14:52 |
| simo | ok | 14:52 |
| markmc | simo, but it'd be good to know sooner rather than later we need to consider other options | 14:52 |
| simo | yep | 14:52 |
| lbragstad | markmc I just wanted to discuss what I needed to help with to get eventlet separation from oslo so we can use it in Keystnoe | 14:52 |
| simo | so far I haven;t got a no | 14:53 |
| simo | so we are going forward | 14:53 |
| ayoung | markmc, the thing is that I want the SQL migrations for simo 's stuff to be in a separate migration repo | 14:53 |
| simo | ayoung: details :) | 14:53 |
| ayoung | so it can be split off etc from the rest of Keystone if we decide to move it around | 14:53 |
| markmc | ayoung, we've moved on | 14:53 |
| markmc | lbragstad, so, the issue is using the logging -> notifications thing ? | 14:53 |
| markmc | lbragstad, you want keystone to be able to send notifications | 14:53 |
| lbragstad | markmc yep | 14:54 |
| markmc | lbragstad, even if it's e.g. running in mod_wsgi without eventlet ? | 14:54 |
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| mrodden | thats tough, because the default notifier driver is RPC | 14:54 |
| markmc | lbragstad, is that the concrete example - mod_wsgi without eventlet ? | 14:54 |
| ayoung | markmc, yes | 14:54 |
| markmc | ok | 14:54 |
| simo | we really want to go mod_wsgi in keystone | 14:55 |
| markmc | has anyone tried it, where does it break? | 14:55 |
| markmc | just because the code imports eventlet | 14:55 |
| markmc | doesn't mean it uses it | 14:55 |
| markmc | just to send an RPC message | 14:55 |
| markmc | I'm not sure it does use it | 14:55 |
| dhellmann | that may be an issue for pecan-based services in the future, too | 14:55 |
| lbragstad | and Keystone wants to use the oslo implementation but doesn't want to have any hard dependencies on eventlet: https://github.com/openstack/oslo-incubator/blob/master/openstack/common/local.py#L22 | 14:55 |
| ayoung | markmc, we haven't tried it with notifier yet. It might be fine, so long as no monkey patching is required for the code to be propery executed | 14:55 |
| lbragstad | this is more pertaining to the logging for Keystone | 14:55 |
| markmc | ah, ok - it's the thread local store | 14:55 |
| ayoung | but it is kind of dumb to pull in those deps | 14:56 |
| lbragstad | yep | 14:56 |
| markmc | has anyone tried replacing just that ? | 14:56 |
| flaper87 | FWIW, we faced the same issue in Marconi | 14:56 |
| lbragstad | I was hoping ayoung would chime in :) | 14:56 |
| ayoung | for Apache in prefork, we should be able to use just the normal store | 14:56 |
| ayoung | er | 14:56 |
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| ayoung | just normal memory | 14:56 |
| markmc | ok, my main point is | 14:56 |
| markmc | ignore the fact that eventlet gets imported | 14:56 |
| markmc | just hacking things so we can send a notification without *using* eventlet | 14:57 |
| simo | is it possible to import eventlet only confditionally ? | 14:57 |
| markmc | e.g. allowing an alternate to eventlet.corolocal | 14:57 |
| markmc | simo, importing eventlet isn't the issue | 14:57 |
| simo | ok | 14:57 |
| ayoung | simo, in this case, the problem was that the impl depended on it. I am ok with a import that is unused for now | 14:57 |
| markmc | importing it doesn't have side-effects | 14:57 |
| markmc | and later, with the new messaging API, we'll be able to avoid the imports | 14:57 |
| simo | ack | 14:58 |
| ayoung | markmc, sounds good. I can work with lbragstad to set up a test | 14:58 |
| markmc | cool stuff | 14:58 |
| simo | as long as we all understand the problem I think we achieved the goal of the topic | 14:58 |
| markmc | ok, 2 minutes left :) | 14:58 |
| markmc | #topic open floor | 14:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open floor (Meeting topic: oslo)" | 14:58 | |
| markmc | anything else ? | 14:58 |
| simo | markmc: can you give deadlines ? | 14:58 |
| markmc | simo, for? | 14:58 |
| simo | I will have some PTO in the next few days | 14:58 |
| lbragstad | markmc thanks for meeting up this week, I know it cleared things up for me! | 14:58 |
| markmc | the dates for the milestones are well all in launchpad | 14:58 |
| simo | next deadline and following one | 14:58 |
| simo | for code to be in | 14:59 |
| markmc | simo, I think havana-3 is feature freeze | 14:59 |
| * markmc checks | 14:59 | |
| simo | markmc: so anything that lands until 1 minutes before those dates is fine ? | 14:59 |
| flaper87 | I'm almost done with the cache blueprint and will submit it for review next week (or today) | 14:59 |
| flaper87 | for the curious ones https://github.com/FlaPer87/oslo-incubator/tree/cache/openstack/common/cache | 14:59 |
| markmc | simo, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 14:59 |
| flaper87 | not expecting you to go there and review. I'll first summit the general API and then specific implementations (and by general I mean, API + in-memory support) | 15:00 |
| markmc | simo, I'll start -2ing large new features a couple of weeks before feature freeze, I think | 15:00 |
| markmc | simo, bear in mind, it's the feature freeze of e.g. nova and keystone you need to worry about | 15:00 |
| simo | flaper87: good to know, I have my local cache in the securemessage code, will see if what you propose there applies | 15:00 |
| flaper87 | simo: awesome! thnx! | 15:00 |
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| markmc | ok, we're out of time | 15:01 |
| markmc | thanks everyone | 15:01 |
| markmc | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| flaper87 | thanks | 15:01 |
| lbragstad | thank you | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "R/O volumes (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Fri Jun 7 15:01:13 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-06-07-14.00.html | 15:01 |
| mrodden | thanks | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-06-07-14.00.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/oslo/2013/oslo.2013-06-07-14.00.log.html | 15:01 |
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| simo | markmc: ok so let's say: last chance mid aug ? | 15:01 |
| markmc | simo, well, let's say kds needs to be in first, then the oslo-incubator patches and then e.g. nova patches | 15:02 |
| simo | markmc: kds depends on oslo-incubator patches | 15:02 |
| markmc | simo, mid august is probably the cut-off point for large, risky nova patches | 15:02 |
| simo | so other way around | 15:02 |
| simo | but whtever :) | 15:02 |
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| markmc | well, ok - I thought it was the other way | 15:03 |
| markmc | if you can't use the oslo patches without having a kds ... | 15:03 |
| simo | well 1 patch implements crypto | 15:03 |
| simo | all code depdns on it | 15:03 |
| markmc | ok, that could go in first | 15:03 |
| simo | then kds and SecureMessage class can go in in parallel | 15:03 |
| simo | markmc: that one is already proposed for review | 15:03 |
| markmc | yep | 15:03 |
| simo | could go in now | 15:03 |
| mrodden | apparently there are no other meetings on friday... | 15:03 |
| simo | ok have a good w/e then :) | 15:04 |
| simo | ttyl | 15:04 |
| markmc | you too | 15:04 |
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| mrodden | markmc: just wanted to let you know I'm planning on working the lazy gettext stuff into nova next | 15:04 |
| mrodden | it might need some changes | 15:04 |
| markmc | mrodden, ok, great | 15:04 |
| mrodden | there is some excessive nastiness in Nova | 15:04 |
| mrodden | like passing in python code objects to % and stuff | 15:04 |
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