| reed | 1) i'm not sure that sending email works | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| reed | 2) when we get email from askbot it lists evgeny_ as forum moderator | 00:00 |
| reed | not sure if that's the intended behavior | 00:00 |
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| evgeny_ | what brings the concern 1)? | 00:01 |
| reed | evgeny_: I get only updates from questions I have edited and only once last week I have received the weekly summary | 00:01 |
| reed | and my subscriptions page has lots more emails | 00:01 |
| reed | but I haven't spent too much time investigating and that's why I haven't filed a bug yet | 00:02 |
| reed | according to https://ask.openstack.org/users/9/smaffulli/?sort=email_subscriptions I should get lots of daily emails | 00:02 |
| reed | I don't... I only get the notifications immediately from questinos I have edited/answered | 00:02 |
| evgeny_ | I see | 00:03 |
| evgeny_ | there is minimum karma to trigger notifications maybe that | 00:03 |
| evgeny_ | 15 | 00:03 |
| reed | I should have plenty of karma now to receive notifications | 00:03 |
| evgeny_ | if user has < 15 they don't trigger email to anyone except admins | 00:04 |
| fifieldt | reed, you have 400 or so IIRC | 00:04 |
| evgeny_ | that applies to karma of the author | 00:04 |
| evgeny_ | the idea is that low karma users are likely to spam | 00:04 |
| evgeny_ | we can lower this to 1 | 00:04 |
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| reed | evgeny_: shouldn't I be getting daily summaries for the tags I decided to follow? | 00:05 |
| reed | independently from the karma of their authors? | 00:05 |
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| evgeny_ | reed - that's up to you (the first part - what to subscribe to) | 00:05 |
| evgeny_ | but yes maybe let me think | 00:05 |
| evgeny_ | the issue is that spammers almost always have the lowest karma | 00:06 |
| reed | evgeny_: that's the issue: I have never received notifications from subscriptions | 00:06 |
| evgeny_ | let's see, I'll lower this. | 00:06 |
| reed | or probably only once... which is when I realised that you are listed as contact point | 00:06 |
| reed | how do we edit the outgoing emails? | 00:07 |
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| evgeny_ | ok - so I will look into the mail sending | 00:07 |
| reed | thanks | 00:07 |
| reed | that concludes the list, I think | 00:08 |
| evgeny_ | ATM there is no way to edit content of email via the UI | 00:08 |
| evgeny_ | we have templates | 00:08 |
| evgeny_ | on disk | 00:08 |
| evgeny_ | we can implement fields for the email snippets | 00:08 |
| reed | can we put them on the git repository somewhere where we can edit them? | 00:08 |
| evgeny_ | also we can customize templates in the themem | 00:08 |
| evgeny_ | theme | 00:08 |
| evgeny_ | - yes theme is in the repo | 00:09 |
| reed | yeah, I'd say go with that | 00:09 |
| evgeny_ | Maybe a better approach would be to add settings options | 00:09 |
| evgeny_ | then you'll be able to tweak messages easier | 00:09 |
| reed | updated the bug | 00:10 |
| evgeny_ | - that will apply sometimes only to certain snippets of text | 00:10 |
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| evgeny_ | such as preamble, footer | 00:10 |
| reed | the easiest, fastest way is the best :) | 00:10 |
| evgeny_ | option will be quick | 00:10 |
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| evgeny_ | should we make another ticked for that? | 00:11 |
| evgeny_ | ticket | 00:11 |
| reed | evgeny_: for tweaking messages? | 00:11 |
| evgeny_ | yes | 00:11 |
| reed | I think it's better to solve this one the easy/fast way first and make a note to develop a more elegant solution | 00:12 |
| reed | i think we're done with reviewing/triaging bugs | 00:12 |
| reed | and we're almost done with time, too | 00:12 |
| fifieldt | well, bugs for the ask project | 00:12 |
| evgeny_ | it's actually fast | 00:12 |
| fifieldt | there are others | 00:12 |
| evgeny_ | as it does not require to create new files | 00:13 |
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| evgeny_ | I add options | 00:13 |
| reed | fifieldt: yeah, but the other providers are not here | 00:13 |
| evgeny_ | and inject optional text into the templates | 00:13 |
| reed | evgeny_: as you prefer, as long as that is fixed :) | 00:14 |
| reed | ok | 00:15 |
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| reed | fifieldt: other things to discuss? | 00:16 |
| reed | fifieldt: for the other bugs tracked there I will talk to Bitergia and zagile | 00:16 |
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| fifieldt | there's also some ones not covered by those guys I think :) | 00:17 |
| fifieldt | erm, what else is on the agenda/ | 00:17 |
| fifieldt | how to help developers consuming API ? | 00:17 |
| reed | fifieldt: yeah | 00:17 |
| fifieldt | I had a good chat with everett yesterday | 00:17 |
| reed | wanted to discuss that with Everett | 00:17 |
| fifieldt | got some ideas | 00:17 |
| fifieldt | will write them up and email ? | 00:17 |
| reed | #topic how to help developers consuming API | 00:17 |
| reed | fifieldt: sounds like a good idea :) | 00:18 |
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| evgeny_ | reed: is this still re: askbot? | 00:18 |
| fifieldt | naw | 00:18 |
| fifieldt | openstack api | 00:18 |
| fifieldt | sorry for confusion | 00:18 |
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| reed | #action fifieldt to summarise conversation with Everett about helping developers consuming OpenStack | 00:18 |
| evgeny_ | ok, thanks | 00:19 |
| reed | #topic other, various stuff | 00:19 |
| reed | anything else? | 00:19 |
| reed | if not we should close and go get beers | 00:19 |
| reed | at least in this timezone | 00:19 |
| fifieldt | indeed | 00:20 |
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| fifieldt | :) | 00:20 |
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| reed | I apologize for all this trouble... next time that the meeting happens when I'm not in the office I'll make sure there is an weechat I can use | 00:20 |
| reed | #endmeeting | 00:20 |
| reed | not sure I can end it since I didn't start it | 00:20 |
| fifieldt | #endmeeting | 00:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 00:21 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 20 00:20:59 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 00:21 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_community/2013/openstack_community.2013-06-19-23.17.html | 00:21 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_community/2013/openstack_community.2013-06-19-23.17.txt | 00:21 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_community/2013/openstack_community.2013-06-19-23.17.log.html | 00:21 |
| fifieldt | maybe we shouldn't end - perpetual community meeting :) | 00:21 |
| reed | cool | 00:21 |
| fifieldt | have fun reed! | 00:21 |
| reed | thanks y'all | 00:21 |
| fifieldt | thanks evgeny_! | 00:21 |
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| sdague | people around for qa meeting? | 17:00 |
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| mtreinish | yep | 17:01 |
| sdague | #startmeeting qa | 17:01 |
| davidkranz | Here | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 20 17:01:38 2013 UTC. The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:01 |
| sdague | #topic Blueprint Status | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint Status (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:02 | |
| sdague | please check in with any updated info on your blueprints using the #info tag | 17:02 |
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| sdague | we'll give everyone a minute or two on that | 17:02 |
| mtreinish | sdague: no blueprint link this time? | 17:03 |
| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest | 17:03 |
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| sdague | sorry, I'm slow :) | 17:03 |
| sdague | #link https://launchpad.net/tempest/+milestone/havana-2 | 17:04 |
| sdague | those are the havana 2 blueprints, which we are only 3 weeks away from, and there are a lot there | 17:04 |
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| davidkranz | I'm going to try to get some progress on the stress tests. | 17:05 |
| sdague | davidkranz: what's need to close out the stress test one | 17:05 |
| sdague | ok, great | 17:05 |
| davidkranz | Volume was just added. | 17:05 |
| davidkranz | sdague: The most important thing is to create the job that will run it | 17:05 |
| davidkranz | sdague: And set a periodic build. | 17:05 |
| davidkranz | sdague: RIght now there is nothing making sure it actually works. | 17:06 |
| davidkranz | sdague: But there is an issue that these tests are really targeted to run in an environment not supported upstream. | 17:06 |
| sdague | davidkranz: ok, great, is that still doable for havana-2? | 17:06 |
| davidkranz | sdague: I am checking on that and will update accordingly. | 17:07 |
| sdague | davidkranz: well I think we had a policy that if we can't run it in CI some how (periodic or otherwise) it can't really be in tempest | 17:07 |
| sdague | because otherwise we get bit rot | 17:07 |
| mtreinish | that was a big issue with the old stress tests. | 17:07 |
| sdague | right, exactly | 17:07 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: Unfortunately the reason the old stress tests could not be run still remains. | 17:08 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: All the bogus log errors. | 17:08 |
| sdague | davidkranz: well we can run it as a non enforcing job | 17:08 |
| sdague | also, if there are specific bugs for each error in the logs, they are likely to get addressed | 17:08 |
| davidkranz | sdague: We need to do that anyway but the real issue if false positives if we can't check the log for legitimat errors | 17:09 |
| davidkranz | typing too fast... | 17:09 |
| davidkranz | sdague: I filed a whole bunch of bugs a few months ago | 17:10 |
| sdague | davidkranz: sure, but we can call out the false possitives to code around them, much like skips in our tempest code | 17:10 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Some were fixed, some not. | 17:10 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Yes, we can do that but it is very fragile. | 17:10 |
| sdague | ok, well lets leave it at the following | 17:10 |
| sdague | #action davidkranz to see if stress tests can be completed for h2 milestone | 17:11 |
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| davidkranz | sdague: OK | 17:11 |
| sdague | mtreinish: I know I put testr later in the agenda, but you want to talk about it now, given that it's also a critical blueprint? | 17:11 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: sure | 17:11 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: Is there any issue with the admin tests running in parallel? | 17:12 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: There is no tenant isolation there. | 17:12 |
| mtreinish | so I've got a patch pending for testr that partitions on test classes and it's giving runtime numbers that are what we expect | 17:12 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: not that I've seen in my runs | 17:12 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: Great! | 17:12 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: any word from lifeless yet about his evaluation on the patch? | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | I'm waiting on lifeless to review the testr patch before I push out a change that moves run_tests and tox over to testr | 17:13 |
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| sdague | ok, cool | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | once it gets merged we should be able use testr for everything | 17:14 |
| mtreinish | I'm sure it will shake loose some races but we debug those as they come up | 17:14 |
| sdague | yep | 17:14 |
| sdague | that will be great | 17:14 |
| mtreinish | but at least locally things have been fairly stable on my dev box | 17:14 |
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| davidkranz | mtreinish: Maybe we should keep it work in progress and rerun it a bunch of times before merging? | 17:15 |
| sdague | mtreinish: you want to update that blueprint to good progress? | 17:15 |
| mtreinish | if anyone cares I've put some initial numbers up here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/testr-numbers | 17:15 |
| sdague | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/testr-numbers initial tester numbers | 17:15 |
| mtreinish | also the testr patch is here if anyone wants to try it: https://code.launchpad.net/~treinish/testrepository/testrepository | 17:15 |
| sdague | #info https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/speed-up-tempest now Good Progress, just waiting for test patch inclusion | 17:15 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: I would hesitate to put that in the gate based on one successful run. | 17:15 |
| sdague | davidkranz: yeh, probably we'd want to make a separate tox rule for a full run | 17:16 |
| sdague | and run it in shadow mode for a week or two | 17:16 |
| sdague | just to make sure we are good | 17:16 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Sounds good to me. | 17:16 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: yeah that's a fair point | 17:16 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah sounds like a good idea | 17:16 |
| sdague | ok, anything else on blueprints? | 17:17 |
| sdague | and, anyone here besides just us 3 :) | 17:17 |
| mtreinish | also testr has '--until-failure' and '--analyze-isolation' which we could maybe setup as a periodic too | 17:17 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: Do you have a feel as to why the speedup falls sharply after 2x? | 17:17 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: Of course 2x would be great :) | 17:18 |
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| sdague | davidkranz: I think one thing that came up is that it's not using the timing database to optimize | 17:18 |
| afazekas_ | hi | 17:18 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: not really, I was happy with the numbers but I haven't looked into optimizing them further yet | 17:18 |
| mtreinish | I'm sure there is room for improvment | 17:18 |
| sdague | hey afazekas | 17:19 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: Sure, just curious. At some point it will slow just due to load. | 17:19 |
| sdague | afazekas: anything from you on blueprints before we move to reviews? | 17:19 |
| afazekas_ | hey sdague | 17:19 |
| sdague | ok, reviews | 17:20 |
| sdague | #topic Reviews that need attension | 17:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews that need attension (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:20 | |
| afazekas_ | I will try to figure out why I have the issue with glance+swift+wc2, after that I will try to reproduce the real ec2 issue in a loop (as background job), at the same time I will work on the resource leak , and add some docs | 17:20 |
| sdague | looks like we actually have a lot of reviews with 1 +2 on them | 17:21 |
| afazekas_ | s/wc2/ec2/ | 17:21 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Well, there is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33689/ :) | 17:21 |
| davidkranz | sdague: I think a few are waiting for non-red-hat approval. | 17:21 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: sdague started a ml thread on that one | 17:21 |
| sdague | davidkranz: sure, I'll take a look later today | 17:21 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: I know. Should be fun. We've been down this road before. Swift folks just don't agree with the API stability policy. | 17:22 |
| sdague | davidkranz: yeh, on the swift one there is a thread here: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-June/010689.html | 17:22 |
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| sdague | ok, I need to go figure out why my patch died on pg | 17:23 |
| sdague | didn't notice that one yet | 17:23 |
| sdague | ok, any other reviews of note? | 17:23 |
| sdague | ok, so the last thing on the agenda which we didn't yet talk about was multiple api versions - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting#Weekly_QA_Team_meeting | 17:24 |
| sdague | #topic Multiple API versions | 17:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Multiple API versions (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:24 | |
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| sdague | there was an ML thread on this, we think it's resolved enough there, or is there need for more discussion? | 17:24 |
| mtreinish | sdague: that fail should just be a recheck. I opened a bug for it here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/devstack/+bug/1192990 | 17:25 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1192990 in devstack "Keystone certificate error with heat" [Undecided,New] | 17:25 |
| davidkranz | sdague: I don't think it is quite resolved there but we could continue the discussion there. | 17:25 |
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| sdague | ok, we'll take the discussion there | 17:25 |
| davidkranz | My issue is how we test new and old versions that bhavior has not changed without duplicating the tests. | 17:26 |
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| sdague | #topic Open Discussion | 17:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:26 | |
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| sdague | davidkranz: I don't think you can | 17:26 |
| davidkranz | sdague: That is a big problem given the size of nova, e.g. | 17:26 |
| sdague | duplicating is probably the right way from an issolation perspective, it also lets you remove old versions over time | 17:26 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: yeah there is no guarentee something won't change between versions so we just have too test both | 17:26 |
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| sdague | davidkranz: nova is duplicating the code paths internally for the same reason | 17:26 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: Yes but I hope we can find a way to duplicate dynamically but not statically. | 17:27 |
| sdague | davidkranz: the resource structures are going to change as well | 17:27 |
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| afazekas_ | _interface='xml' | 17:27 |
| davidkranz | mtreinish: The test code will be the same if the behavior has not changed. | 17:27 |
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| sdague | davidkranz: the reason for the new api is because it did change | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | davidkranz: not necessarily things like return codes will probably change | 17:27 |
| sdague | if it didn't change, you wouldn't need a bump | 17:27 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Every api changed? | 17:27 |
| afazekas_ | I am not sure the current '_interface' solution is the nicest way how to avoid code duplication, but it works | 17:28 |
| afazekas_ | the services could be responsible for the error code checking | 17:28 |
| davidkranz | We can continue this on the list but a real proposal is needed. | 17:28 |
| sdague | davidkranz: probably not every, but enough move around that it's easy to miss a test bug inside a complicated if / else around versions | 17:28 |
| afazekas_ | 'services' ie. rest_clients | 17:28 |
| davidkranz | sdague: OK, I did not realize it was this extensive. | 17:29 |
| sdague | things like tenant ids in urls going away | 17:29 |
| davidkranz | sdague: That is a localized change. | 17:29 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Obviously the rest client will change. | 17:29 |
| sdague | yeh, but the problem is that you can come from 2 points of view | 17:29 |
| sdague | assume it is all the same, and put complexity into the tests when it's different | 17:29 |
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| sdague | or assume it's all different, and factor out common bits when it's the same | 17:30 |
| sdague | I feel like not knowing how same or different it will end up, option 2 is safer | 17:30 |
| davidkranz | sdague: I hope it is the first. Otherwise users who upgrade will suffer a lot. | 17:30 |
| sdague | davidkranz: that's why it's a major version bump | 17:30 |
| sdague | and why v2 will still be in havana | 17:31 |
| davidkranz | sdague: If history is a guide, once we get more stable there will be a lot of resistance to changes in major versions as well unless they are really necessary. | 17:31 |
| sdague | davidkranz: honestly, I don't expect v3 to be the final word, if the interfaces don't evolve over time, they don't stay relevant | 17:32 |
| sdague | but that's a meta discussion :) | 17:32 |
| davidkranz | sdague: Right. | 17:32 |
| sdague | ok, anything else from folks | 17:32 |
| davidkranz | Nope. | 17:33 |
| mtreinish | nothing from me | 17:33 |
| sdague | ok, thanks all | 17:33 |
| sdague | #endmeeting | 17:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:33 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 20 17:33:43 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:33 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-06-20-17.01.html | 17:33 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-06-20-17.01.txt | 17:33 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2013/qa.2013-06-20-17.01.log.html | 17:33 |
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| hyakuhei_ | Hmmm, No Bryan here today | 18:03 |
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| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 20 18:04:26 2013 UTC. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | hi all, sorry I'm a little late | 18:04 |
| elo_ | Hi | 18:04 |
| hyakuhei | Thank good, I was just going to google how to startmeeting again lol | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | ha | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | so who all do we have today? | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | Bryan from Nebula here :-) | 18:05 |
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| elo_ | Eric from VMware/Nicira here | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | hi Eric | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | an hi Rob | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | s/an/and/ | 18:05 |
| abhisri | abhinav from AT&T Research here. | 18:05 |
| joel-coffman | Joel from API | 18:06 |
| bpb | Bruce from APL | 18:06 |
| joel-coffman | s/API/APL | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | great, nice group | 18:06 |
| hyakuhei | :) Nice to have some people here today. | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | So first thing to mention is that there will be *no* IRC meeting next week | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | Next week is the book sprint effort, so many of us will be knee deep in that | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | We'll return to our normal schedule the following week | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | I'll update the web page accordingly | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | this one https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/OpenStackSecurity | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | Any items that people want to discuss today? | 18:07 |
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| hyakuhei | Yeah, can someone take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ossn/+bug/1174153 check it for accuracy/stupidity before I publish it? | 18:08 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1174153 in ossn "data from previous tenants accessible with nova baremetal" [High,New] | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | interesting | 18:08 |
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| bdpayne | uvirtbot you have a link? | 18:09 |
| uvirtbot | bdpayne: Error: "you" is not a valid command. | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | oh, that really is a bot? | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | ok, moving on | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | so I'd like to discuss growing the group, getting more people involved, etc | 18:10 |
| noslzzp | noslzzp is here.. | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | since no one else suggested topics, let's start with that one | 18:10 |
| hyakuhei | I also have an SSL one and a keystone one coming soon. Anyone else fancy writing some | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | basically, we have lots of people joining OSSG lately | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | and I'd like to have a better intro process and clear paths for getting people involved | 18:10 |
| hyakuhei | It would be good to get more discussion running on-list and a better way to welcome people in too | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | so… where do you guys see as places that need help these days | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | #action improve email list discussion | 18:11 |
| hyakuhei | I'd be interested to hear from guys like APL here. | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | #action find better way to introduce new people | 18:11 |
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| bdpayne | and new people too (looking at you abhisri) | 18:12 |
| rellerreller | What do you mean by need help? I'm a little confused. | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | ahh | 18:12 |
| rellerreller | You mean like actions like review each service. | 18:12 |
| rellerreller | ? | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | so the typical workflow is that someone joins OSSG | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | then asked me how they can help | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | I'd like to have a set way to get people integrated into OS projects, help improve security in various ways, etc | 18:13 |
| hyakuhei | Projects like OSSN are a good way to start out | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | so by help, I mean… what needs to be done | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | to improve openstack security | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | clearly there's people helping at the code level (code reviews, etc) | 18:14 |
| hyakuhei | TBH I don't think asking new people to integrate into OS projects will work, it needs to be the inverse. We need to recruit people into the OSSG who are already well integrated in projects | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | do we need someone reviewing security development lifecycle stuff (for example)? | 18:14 |
| joel-coffman | I tend to agree with hyakuhei | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | hyakuhei I hear you, but reality says that it won't always happen that way | 18:15 |
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| bdpayne | I guess we could just tell new people to go get involved in a project and come back when they have some experience | 18:15 |
| hyakuhei | I'm open to both options - you guys hired all the tech leads, can't nebula just make this happen 1?! ;) | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | but what about less technical people… is there a role for them here too? | 18:15 |
| * bdpayne has no comment | 18:16 | |
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| joel-coffman | bdpayne: or encourage people interested in security to become involved in a particular project | 18:16 |
| hyakuhei | Yes, OSSN is a good place to start once the hardening guide is released there'll be lots of scope for help developing that | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | this is a good point | 18:16 |
| joel-coffman | i.e., they may be able to position themselves as the de facto security person for that project | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | getting some initial work laid down, will make it easier for people to make incremental contributions | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | joel-coffman yes, this is what I'd really like to see happen | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | specifically to have OSSG people on each project | 18:17 |
| rellerreller | Reviewing security blue prints and code submissions would be helpful | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | getting there has proven challenging though | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | so I'm open to ideas | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | hmm, here's a thought | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | perhaps we should come up with good security projects that happen in each core project | 18:18 |
| hyakuhei | Yes it would | 18:18 |
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| bdpayne | so a security person could work on that | 18:18 |
| rellerreller | And open security questions that need research | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | and then use that to learn the core project | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | and then transition to the core project rep | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | sort of like what APL has done with volume encryption | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | assuming someone from APL would then be willing to be an OSSG rep for nova and/or cinder | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | thoughts on that approach? | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | Are we happy with the way we currently use LP for the OSSG. Would it be better served on the openstack wiki? | 18:20 |
| hyakuhei | Approach seems sound | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | I think there would be value in using the wiki | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | we could have it be a landing place for security improvement projects for each core project | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | and for security research ideas | 18:20 |
| joel-coffman | starting with a "large" security project has been challenging at times | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | I have no doubt | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | but I'm sure you have learned a ton in the process | 18:21 |
| joel-coffman | bug fixes and incremental changes may be a better way to become involved in the large projects (e.g., nova) | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | I'm starting to envision a series of steps for getting involved | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | 1) do some bug fixes | 18:22 |
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| bdpayne | 2) find useful incremental changes | 18:22 |
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| bdpayne | 3) take on a larger security improvement | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | 4) become OSSG rep for said project | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | and then we could provide a wiki page with ideas of what people could do for 1-3 for each of the core projects | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | clearly people with existing expertise could short circuit the process, for example if they wanted to be an OSSG rep and had the skills to do so | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | but this would help guide people on getting their feet wet | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | thoughts? | 18:23 |
| joel-coffman | agreed, a triage system for bugs and ideas for incremental changes would be a good place to start | 18:23 |
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| bdpayne | I wonder if the wiki could show a search result as part of the page | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | we could setup a search for security bugs, and things commits with security impact tags, etc | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | #action bdpayne to setup landing page (wiki??) to help guide new OSSG members for getting started with code-level contributions | 18:25 |
| hyakuhei | ^ The ML already covers some of that of course | 18:25 |
| uvirtbot | hyakuhei: Error: "The" is not a valid command. | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | yeah | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | but new people may or may not find it useful to search ML archives | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | having a web page to point people at would be useful here, I think | 18:26 |
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| bdpayne | ok, this has been very helpful guys… thanks! | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | anything else to discuss today? | 18:26 |
| joel-coffman | agreed, the wiki is better (even if it links to the mailing list archives) | 18:26 |
| bpb | Just wanted to give a heads up that the APL work on volume encryption is progressing. Shooting for Havana-2 | 18:26 |
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| bpb | Nova changes (uses a hard-coded key instead of upcoming key manager) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30976/ | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | nice! | 18:27 |
| joel-coffman | we're getting ready to remove the "work in progress" tag for part of our volume encryption submission | 18:27 |
| bpb | Nova changes to incorporate key manager interface https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30973/ | 18:27 |
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| bpb | And lastly, the Cinder changes https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30974/ | 18:27 |
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| hyakuhei | bdp would you be interested in chatting with some of the HP Labs cryptographers? They might be in a position to lend a hand | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | #action let's get some eyes on those | 18:28 |
| bpb | Let's talk offline | 18:28 |
| joel-coffman | thanks, we'd appreciate the reviews 'cause we want volume encryption to land in H2 | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | ok, I think that's all for today | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | thanks for everyone for joining in | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | remember, next meeting is in 2 weeks | 18:29 |
| hyakuhei | Thanks bdpayne ! | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:29 |
| joel-coffman | thanks! | 18:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:29 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 20 18:29:33 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:29 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-06-20-18.04.html | 18:29 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-06-20-18.04.txt | 18:29 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2013/openstack_security_group.2013-06-20-18.04.log.html | 18:29 |
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| harlowja | #startmeeting state-management | 20:00 |
| harlowja | hmmmm | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 20 20:00:58 2013 UTC. The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'state_management' | 20:01 |
| harlowja | ah, just slow | 20:01 |
| adrian_otto | hi | 20:01 |
| harlowja | hi there! | 20:01 |
| kebray | hello | 20:01 |
| harlowja | hi hi | 20:01 |
| cliu | hello~ | 20:01 |
| kchenweijie | hello | 20:01 |
| harlowja | *sorry about getting that invite email out late* always get busy with other stuff and forget to send it, lol | 20:01 |
| jlucci | hurr | 20:01 |
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| harlowja | #action harlowja make cron-job that sends it ;) | 20:02 |
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| harlowja | so maybe just a little status check before moving to other stuff | 20:02 |
| harlowja | #topic status-check | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status-check (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:02 | |
| harlowja | who all has anything to report? | 20:03 |
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| harlowja | *i do* | 20:03 |
| kebray | create an action for me to propose a TaskFlow talk for summit, please :-) | 20:03 |
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| harlowja | any problems/things being worked on that are really cool?? ;) | 20:03 |
| kebray | or, I guess I can create actions too? | 20:03 |
| adrian_otto | anyone can | 20:03 |
| harlowja | #action kebray taskflow talk for HK summit | 20:03 |
| harlowja | there u go | 20:03 |
| * kebray celebrates technology. | 20:04 | |
| jlucci | Umm, not too much here. Been doing a lot of documentation/research type stuff | 20:04 |
| harlowja | so i got cinder to work using the current taskflow, unit tests are adjusted, nothing major there, working on a few review comments and awaiting final merge (need taskflow to appear somewhere first) | 20:04 |
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| harlowja | *the cinder flow for creating a volume* | 20:04 |
| adrian_otto | kudos, harlowja | 20:04 |
| adrian_otto | that's a milestone worth recognizing, for sure | 20:05 |
| harlowja | def, its a piece of the puzzle | 20:05 |
| harlowja | *reminds me of the nova prototype a little that we showed at the prefvious summit | 20:05 |
| kebray | awesome harlowja! I've been following the gerrit reviews.. you've done great work. | 20:05 |
| harlowja | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29862/ | 20:05 |
| harlowja | alot of people liking it, so thats great | 20:06 |
| harlowja | makes me feel good, haha, "While I definitely applaud this work," and such... | 20:06 |
| harlowja | so thats great :) | 20:06 |
| harlowja | jlucci what kind of research/documentation stuffs? | 20:06 |
| jlucci | So, I explored gear as a possible option to replace celery in distributed | 20:07 |
| harlowja | gear? | 20:07 |
| harlowja | #link http://www.gearman.org/ i think right? | 20:07 |
| jlucci | Since infra was already using gearman, using gear might've made some people less antsy to introuce a new dependency | 20:07 |
| jlucci | yessir | 20:07 |
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| jlucci | However, through said research, found that gear actually required more overhead than celery, in that you had to spin up and maintain a delegated gearserver | 20:08 |
| harlowja | i've talked to others and they agree, celery seems better than gearman | 20:08 |
| jlucci | While you can run celery locally without any additional resources required (although you can split it up if you felt like it) | 20:08 |
| jlucci | yups | 20:08 |
| jlucci | Also | 20:08 |
| jlucci | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Celery | 20:08 |
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| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Celery | 20:09 |
| harlowja | cool | 20:09 |
| jlucci | Documented exactly what celery is, what the architecture looks like, usage, and how to debug | 20:09 |
| harlowja | reminds me also | 20:09 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TaskFlow for the wiki i was assigned to work on | 20:09 |
| harlowja | *pieces filling in* | 20:09 |
| jlucci | For anyone unfamiliar with celery to sort of answer all the questions peeps keep asing | 20:09 |
| jlucci | asking * | 20:09 |
| jlucci | Yeah. The wiki is looking good! | 20:09 |
| harlowja | very cool! | 20:09 |
| kebray | jlucci.. one piece of feedback on the Celery wiki… you make several references to "Celery Client", but the "Client" doesn't show up in any of your diagrams. | 20:09 |
| jlucci | Ah yeah | 20:10 |
| kebray | But, overall, looks great! | 20:10 |
| jlucci | The client is part of your application | 20:10 |
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| jlucci | I guess I should say that somewhere. :P | 20:10 |
| harlowja | kebray adrian_otto if u want to checkover https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TaskFlow that'd be great also, hopefully nothing to incorrect there ;) | 20:10 |
| harlowja | *any others feedback is welcome to* | 20:10 |
| jlucci | Anywaaay. That stuff, trying to get to harlowja's reviews as well | 20:10 |
| harlowja | thx :) | 20:10 |
| kebray | k… read that one at some point, but need to spend more time with it. I will review. | 20:10 |
| harlowja | much appreciated | 20:11 |
| jlucci | And that's it for me | 20:11 |
| harlowja | cool, same for me, kchenweijie how are u doin | 20:11 |
| harlowja | hopefully don't hate me that much yet ;) | 20:11 |
| harlowja | lol | 20:11 |
| kchenweijie | doing well. working on making the generic types the api, like we discussed in the other irc yesterday | 20:11 |
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| kchenweijie | its working so far, so i just need to finish it up | 20:11 |
| harlowja | awesomeness | 20:12 |
| kchenweijie | ill submit another code review as soon as its done | 20:12 |
| harlowja | sounds great | 20:12 |
| adrian_otto | #action adrian_otto to review/edit https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/TaskFlow | 20:12 |
| harlowja | thx adrian_otto | 20:12 |
| adrian_otto | np | 20:12 |
| kchenweijie | thats pretty much it for me | 20:12 |
| harlowja | *its not complete, not sure it will ever be of course ;) | 20:12 |
| harlowja | great stuff | 20:12 |
| harlowja | any at&t folks around?? | 20:13 |
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| changbl | yes | 20:13 |
| harlowja | we followed up with the nttdata folks, they are doing a little, but mostly busy with other stuff at the moment (guess thats how it goes( | 20:13 |
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| harlowja | changbl any kind of stuff u need help with, or want any input on? | 20:13 |
| harlowja | or any other complaints ... ;) | 20:14 |
| changbl | harlowja, sorry that my progress indeed got delayed | 20:14 |
| harlowja | np, its how it goes :) | 20:14 |
| changbl | Yun Mao here is leaving the company, and I need to take over his projects | 20:14 |
| harlowja | :( | 20:14 |
| harlowja | sad | 20:15 |
| changbl | I planned to work on ZK backend storage and locking | 20:15 |
| harlowja | is he leaving openstack also? | 20:15 |
| harlowja | *if u know* | 20:15 |
| adrian_otto | I did some research on locking using an SQL table | 20:15 |
| changbl | harlowja, maybe, less relevant to openstack | 20:15 |
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| changbl | he will join FB | 20:15 |
| harlowja | ah, double sad | 20:15 |
| harlowja | adrian_otto what did u find out :) | 20:16 |
| adrian_otto | and I'm now convinced that it could be done safely with MySQL, because the isolation level is selectable within the session. | 20:16 |
| harlowja | very cool, adrian_otto do u want to do the locking api ;) | 20:16 |
| adrian_otto | so that could work for low concurrency use cases where ZK is not desired | 20:16 |
| adrian_otto | at the very least I'll outline it | 20:16 |
| changbl | harlowja, i will still stick to ZK backend for storage and locking, how does the plan sound? | 20:16 |
| harlowja | changbl that'd be great, if u have time, but completly understandable if u don't | 20:17 |
| changbl | harlowja, thanks! | 20:17 |
| harlowja | adrian_otto that would be much appreciated, more knoweldge sharing the better | 20:17 |
| adrian_otto | for the locking API, are we thinking library methods, or a REST interface? | 20:17 |
| adrian_otto | it's probably only useful if you can reach it remotely in the distributed use cases | 20:18 |
| harlowja | library i think, but library backends could be one with a rest interface | 20:18 |
| adrian_otto | yes, that's what I'm thinking as well | 20:19 |
| jlucci | +1 library | 20:19 |
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| harlowja | cool | 20:19 |
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| adrian_otto | ok, jlucci let's plan to touch base on this so we end up with something that works with your distributed use case | 20:19 |
| jlucci | Sounds good to em | 20:20 |
| jlucci | me * | 20:20 |
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| harlowja | sweet | 20:21 |
| harlowja | any nova folks in the room, i have been watching a little there, but would be interested in how that is going | 20:21 |
| harlowja | russellb do u know? | 20:21 |
| harlowja | ok, will wait a little to see whats happening when there meeting happens | 20:22 |
| harlowja | so how about we open discussion on the heat requirements, does that seem fine? | 20:23 |
| adrian_otto | yep | 20:23 |
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| harlowja | #topic heat-requirements | 20:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "heat-requirements (Meeting topic: state-management)" | 20:24 | |
| harlowja | #link #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/TaskSystemRequirements | 20:24 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/TaskSystemRequirements | 20:24 |
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| * harlowja letting people check it out | 20:24 | |
| harlowja | a few things that we might have to address (possibly in different ways also) | 20:25 |
| harlowja | - Tasks run in parallel (without going fully distributed?) | 20:25 |
| harlowja | - Tasks can spawn other tasks (this or similar is being discussed right now) | 20:25 |
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| adrian_otto | the parallel task requirement does not require distributed | 20:26 |
| harlowja | - Tasks can time out (this implies that u have an entity that can kill the task when it times out, the implications of that sound scary) | 20:26 |
| adrian_otto | if kill=rollback that's not bad | 20:26 |
| jlucci | small interjection - celery (distributed approach here) already has that capability | 20:27 |
| jlucci | It can also set an action to perform on timeout | 20:27 |
| jlucci | Doesn't necessarily have to be a kill (could be a try this other task instead type thing) | 20:27 |
| jlucci | And timeouts can be set during runtime | 20:27 |
| harlowja | but if kill == stop task will its still running, thats weird, since then u are basically stopping code from running at a random point, that usually requires some pretty complicated stuff (what if the task is using a file, or locks, or ...) | 20:27 |
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| harlowja | i'm pretty sure linux has a whole substructure just to do that cleanup, so we might need to get clarification on the scope of 'kill'/timeout | 20:28 |
| kebray | harlowja, isn't that what exceptions/desctructor-cleanup stuff is for? You can signal a task to die, but that doesn't mean it stops execution immediately.. it means it gets a signal to gracefully exit and clean up as soon as possible, no? | 20:29 |
| adrian_otto | harlowja: ok, make a note in the wiki about what clarification is needed | 20:29 |
| adrian_otto | there are different kinds of "kill" and that ambiguity needs to be clarified | 20:29 |
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| harlowja | kk | 20:29 |
| kebray | anyway, that's how I interpreted Zane's requirement.. basically to allow for tasks to exit gracefully upon signal to kill-self. | 20:29 |
| harlowja | #action get clarification on timeout | 20:29 |
| kebray | clarification is good :-) | 20:29 |
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| harlowja | well that means tasks have checkpoints right? | 20:30 |
| harlowja | #action harlowja get clarification on timeout | 20:30 |
| adrian_otto | yes | 20:30 |
| harlowja | so it brings up the question of should tasks have checkpoints, or should workflows have checkpoints and tasks shouldn't... | 20:30 |
| adrian_otto | in fact, he raises that as a requirement | 20:30 |
| adrian_otto | when he mentions yield | 20:30 |
| harlowja | so that brings up an interesing question, is why should a task have checkpoints, if its a single unit of code that does one thing, why should it be doing many things that require checkpoints ;) | 20:31 |
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| harlowja | split up the task instead right? | 20:31 |
| harlowja | then have the workflow do the checkpointing | 20:31 |
| adrian_otto | a workflow could be implemented as a task, in which case if tasks support a yield equivalent, then that's enough | 20:32 |
| adrian_otto | I think that's what he's thinking about when he mentions that tasks create subtasks | 20:32 |
| harlowja | not quite sure there | 20:32 |
| jlucci | I disagree | 20:32 |
| jlucci | Tasks should not be implemented as a workflow | 20:32 |
| adrian_otto | reverse | 20:33 |
| jlucci | A task is the smallest executable bit of data within a workflow | 20:33 |
| jlucci | If you want a task to accomplish multiple things, you should split that task up into a set of tasks | 20:33 |
| harlowja | yielding to me is a way to switch coroutines, which is in a manner creating a structure of yields that is a workflow | 20:33 |
| harlowja | our workflow is explicit, via yielding u can make it somewhat implicit | 20:33 |
| harlowja | so this is one of those pieces where the yielding code is different than taskflow :) | 20:34 |
| harlowja | likely we just need to figure out what way to go, yielding makes it hard to run in distributed afaik, since u need the explicit structure i think | 20:34 |
| adrian_otto | would that allow the representation of a "arbitrary directed acyclic graph"? | 20:34 |
| harlowja | so thats another interesting one, its not really arbitary after they construct the DAG right? | 20:35 |
| harlowja | the user provides a document, they construct the DAG, at that point its not arbitrary anymore | 20:35 |
| harlowja | so i'm not sure about that requirement so much | 20:35 |
| adrian_otto | yes, but they are generated on the fly | 20:35 |
| adrian_otto | that's what he's getting at | 20:35 |
| adrian_otto | you need the ability to build one up, and then set it into action | 20:36 |
| jlucci | Sooo, I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing this, but distributed has that capability | 20:36 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:36 |
| jlucci | You can create and modify worfklows on the fly/during runtime | 20:36 |
| harlowja | i think the heat requirement isn't even at runtime :) | 20:36 |
| harlowja | it seems to be more of a build time dynamic, which yes we have | 20:36 |
| harlowja | and build time dynamic is really nice, since then we can analyze it | 20:37 |
| kebray | distributed can deal with flows that have cycles though.. so, it need not be a DAG, although you could require it to be a DAG. | 20:37 |
| harlowja | agreed | 20:37 |
| adrian_otto | in Heat stacks can be modified | 20:37 |
| adrian_otto | in which case the graph is updated | 20:37 |
| harlowja | interesting | 20:37 |
| adrian_otto | so it is a runtime requirement | 20:37 |
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| harlowja | i wonder how much updating they allow, because u can basically invalidate the whole DAG | 20:38 |
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| harlowja | if a task can invalidate the DAG it is in, i wonder how that DAG being broken is resolved | 20:38 |
| adrian_otto | I have not reviewed that code, so I can't speak intelligently about the implementation. | 20:38 |
| harlowja | np | 20:38 |
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| harlowja | #action harlowja figure out what kind of DAG modifications heat can do | 20:39 |
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| kebray | adrian_otto does Heat actually keep the graph around and modify it on a modify stack operation? I don't know the code well enough to say. | 20:39 |
| adrian_otto | I think it gets persisted, and can be recalled, but I'm not certain. | 20:39 |
| harlowja | that scares me, it brings up a whole world of problems when thats possible | 20:40 |
| harlowja | which one is persisted, all of the modified ones ;) | 20:40 |
| harlowja | and so on | 20:40 |
| harlowja | if a DAG is broken in the middle after an update, do u revert back to the previously persisted one to rollback | 20:40 |
| adrian_otto | I do know it's possible to ask the api for the current stack in a serialized representation (JSON) | 20:40 |
| adrian_otto | and that's the current state, not the original statew | 20:40 |
| adrian_otto | and it comes "from the database" | 20:40 |
| harlowja | interesting | 20:40 |
| harlowja | i defintly wonder how that works | 20:41 |
| adrian_otto | no rollback is implemented that I know of | 20:41 |
| adrian_otto | a stack can go into an error state, but can't be rolled back | 20:41 |
| harlowja | ya, i can see why its pretty hard if u allow graph modifications and don't keep the previous graphs ;) | 20:41 |
| adrian_otto | that's where taskflow could make it much more robust. | 20:41 |
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| harlowja | agreed, although i wonder the real need for said modifications, if we can avoid them that will make everyones lives easier, haha | 20:42 |
| harlowja | although i know jlucci will be fine with them ;) | 20:42 |
| kebray | modification to a deployed stack seems like a valid feature. | 20:42 |
| kebray | implementation is surely up for debate :-) | 20:43 |
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| adrian_otto | so it seems that we need the authors of that work to participate in a collaboration session to get a better sense of what's needed. | 20:43 |
| harlowja | sure, in the forward operation where u don't want to go backwards and rollback i totally see it as a feature, until u start asking the questions of errors ;) | 20:43 |
| harlowja | adrian_otto 100% agreed | 20:43 |
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| harlowja | i think that would help tremendously, we both are doing similar stuff, so why not combine our forces into captain planet | 20:44 |
| harlowja | i mean the best library possible | 20:44 |
| jlucci | haha | 20:44 |
| adrian_otto | let's see if we can arrange that to happen soon | 20:44 |
| harlowja | and address these issues upfront instead of later | 20:44 |
| adrian_otto | kebray: do you have a list of Rackers who should participate? | 20:44 |
| jlucci | I'll CC on an e-mail thread we've started with Zane, adrian_otto | 20:44 |
| harlowja | since later to me i think might be pretty painful for heat as a project if they don't think about errors and such, but thats my 2 cents | 20:44 |
| jlucci | In regards to taskflow/heat compatability and needs | 20:44 |
| jlucci | agreed | 20:45 |
| harlowja | jlucci thx! | 20:45 |
| harlowja | #action jlucci start nice email thread with heat folks, zaneb, other interesting fellows | 20:45 |
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| jlucci | :D | 20:45 |
| kebray | adrian_otto: jlucci, randall_burt, you, me, for sure… there are a few others that may be interested. | 20:45 |
| adrian_otto | I'm thinking a Hangout+irc might be a good way to discuss this. | 20:45 |
| harlowja | def | 20:46 |
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| kebray | jlucci, you may want to correspond via the Heat OpenStack mailing list. | 20:46 |
| kebray | I think there are others that may be interseted. | 20:46 |
| harlowja | agreed | 20:46 |
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| harlowja | that'd be fine with me | 20:46 |
| jlucci | Sounds good. I'll go ahead and re-do that email then | 20:46 |
| adrian_otto | but I'm convinced that a requirements discussion is beyond the scope of what openstack-dev is good for | 20:47 |
| adrian_otto | so let's arrange something interactive that all stakeholders can attend | 20:47 |
| harlowja | great | 20:47 |
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| adrian_otto | kebray: do you want to lead coordination, or do you want a hand with that? | 20:47 |
| harlowja | i'll try to add some comments to the requirments under [jh] and will try not to be to harsh ;) | 20:48 |
| * harlowja josh be nice | 20:48 | |
| harlowja | lol | 20:48 |
| jlucci | haha | 20:48 |
| jlucci | Just end every sentence with a smiley. | 20:48 |
| harlowja | def | 20:48 |
| harlowja | lol | 20:48 |
| kebray | adrian_otto… I can add it to my to-do list… but, if I haven't gotten around to it in a few days, then will ask for some help :-) | 20:49 |
| harlowja | kebray on a different topic, the summit, how many sessions do u think would be nice, all of them ;) | 20:49 |
| harlowja | i think all of them | 20:49 |
| harlowja | lol | 20:49 |
| adrian_otto | let's simply recognize that Heat is the best OpenStack use case for the taskflow library, and it's important to make sure they get what they need | 20:49 |
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| kebray | #action kebray to coordinate meeting with Heat devs to discuss coordination of task management | 20:49 |
| harlowja | 100% agree | 20:49 |
| harlowja | the other projects, yes, they need it also, but heat is also a core user | 20:50 |
| adrian_otto | kebray: Ok, I will follow up Monday if we don't have the plans secured by then. | 20:50 |
| harlowja | the other projects def need it to also, so keep that in mind ;) | 20:50 |
| harlowja | nova, cinder... | 20:50 |
| kebray | harlowja: I'd like to see TaskFlow become it's own project track at the summit.. not sure how to make that happen. | 20:50 |
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| harlowja | interesting | 20:51 |
| harlowja | *that would be interesting* (ponder ponder) | 20:51 |
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| kebray | ? we had some IBM'ers express interest in contributing to TaskFlow at one point.. .we have anyone in here from "other" companies than Yahoo, Rackspace, ATT, NTT? | 20:51 |
| adrian_otto | let's get it to the point where it can give a good demo | 20:51 |
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| harlowja | adrian_otto sure i think a great demo is useful, but also just the fundamental concepts are useful to, i guess both would be superb | 20:52 |
| kebray | agreed with adrian_otto… if we can show up at next summit with a kick-butt demo and claim it "stable" for folks to be using, and have the Cinder dependency done, that will be awesome. | 20:52 |
| jlucci | + 1 | 20:52 |
| harlowja | ah, that brings up a good question, how much of cinder :-P | 20:52 |
| harlowja | jgriffith yt | 20:52 |
| jlucci | How much of cinder done? | 20:52 |
| adrian_otto | ideally all of it | 20:52 |
| harlowja | that might require more than me just chugging away on cinder, lol | 20:53 |
| adrian_otto | what's the scope of that effort? | 20:53 |
| adrian_otto | it need not be all done by you | 20:53 |
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| jlucci | I think it would require some Cinder devs to come on board | 20:53 |
| harlowja | hehe, i think the scope is all encompassing, at least it was, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/cinder-state-machine | 20:53 |
| adrian_otto | if they have good examples to follow it may be easy enough to divide and conquer | 20:53 |
| harlowja | agreed | 20:54 |
| harlowja | #action harlowja create those examples for jgriffith and hemna | 20:54 |
| hemna | :) | 20:54 |
| adrian_otto | not sure if they are used to pair sessions, but that's another approach that could work | 20:54 |
| harlowja | pair coding? | 20:55 |
| adrian_otto | yep | 20:55 |
| adrian_otto | can be done remotely | 20:55 |
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| harlowja | intersesting, i've never done that, but could be | 20:55 |
| harlowja | i think maybe the examples and such (simple examples) would help | 20:55 |
| hemna | +1 | 20:55 |
| harlowja | and make sure to address more questions that hemna and jgriffith have :) | 20:56 |
| harlowja | *at your service* | 20:56 |
| adrian_otto | yes, that's step one, and then you pair up to provide real-time support for them to get the first one done. | 20:56 |
| adrian_otto | and then they can repeat, repeat | 20:56 |
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| harlowja | that sounds pretty cool, might work | 20:56 |
| harlowja | hemna any thoughts? | 20:56 |
| harlowja | *ack 4 minutes | 20:56 |
| harlowja | where does the time go, lol | 20:56 |
| hemna | sounds good | 20:57 |
| harlowja | sweet | 20:57 |
| hemna | I'm still stuck in refactoring nova's attach code into brick | 20:57 |
| hemna | so I've not been much help with this :( | 20:57 |
| harlowja | did u guys rename cinder to brick | 20:57 |
| harlowja | did i miss that email | 20:57 |
| harlowja | *stop renaming stuff people, haha* | 20:57 |
| harlowja | :-p | 20:58 |
| harlowja | oh, nm, hehe | 20:58 |
| harlowja | #link https://github.com/j-griffith/brick | 20:58 |
| hemna | heh | 20:58 |
| hemna | nah brick is a subproject for cinder and hopefully nova at some point | 20:59 |
| harlowja | :) | 20:59 |
| harlowja | cool | 20:59 |
| harlowja | alright, until next time, anyone need more #openstack-state-management :) | 20:59 |
| russellb | hemna: is that the local storage handling stuff? | 20:59 |
| harlowja | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 20 20:59:57 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-06-20-20.00.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-06-20-20.00.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/state_management/2013/state_management.2013-06-20-20.00.log.html | 21:00 |
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| adrian_otto | tx! | 21:00 |
| russellb | i guess i should just look. | 21:00 |
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| harlowja | thx much everyone :) | 21:00 |
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| hemna | russellb, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/32650/ the refactor work I've been working on. | 21:01 |
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| russellb | cool will take a look a bit later | 21:01 |
| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Jun 20 21:02:06 2013 UTC. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| russellb | hello everyone! who's around to talk about nova? | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:02 |
| mriedem | hi | 21:02 |
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| mrodden | here | 21:02 |
| cyeoh | hi! | 21:02 |
| dripton | hi | 21:02 |
| dansmith | o/ | 21:02 |
| alaski | o/ | 21:02 |
| melwitt | hi | 21:02 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 21:02 |
| russellb | #topic blueprints | 21:02 |
| n0ano | o/ | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| devananda | \o | 21:02 |
| hartsocks | \o | 21:02 |
| russellb | #link https://launchpad.net/nova/+milestone/havana-2 | 21:02 |
| russellb | I think we're actually in decent shape given how much is on the havana-2 list | 21:03 |
| russellb | lots of stuff already up for review, which is good | 21:03 |
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| russellb | but I figured it would be a good time to remind everyone of the schedule ... | 21:03 |
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| russellb | we're roughly half-way through havana-2 (which means roughly half way through dev time for havana!) | 21:03 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 21:03 |
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| russellb | sooner the better for putting some review time into the bigger stuff for these blueprints , so it's not so much of a rush at the end of this milestone | 21:05 |
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| russellb | any comments/questions about release status / blueprints? | 21:05 |
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| mrodden | i am somewhat concerned about the API locale one I have up | 21:06 |
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| russellb | mrodden: link? | 21:06 |
| mrodden | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/user-locale-api | 21:06 |
| russellb | and what's the concern? | 21:06 |
| mrodden | its not very glorious of code | 21:06 |
| mrodden | and hasn't had any feedback from any nova core's yet | 21:06 |
| russellb | yeah, don't think i've seen the nova code yet | 21:07 |
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| mrodden | the oslo stuff got merge yesterday (?) | 21:07 |
| mrodden | so thats cool | 21:07 |
| russellb | well right, i saw that | 21:07 |
| russellb | is there a nova patch up? | 21:07 |
| mrodden | yep... second | 21:07 |
| mriedem | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30459/ | 21:08 |
| mrodden | yep that one | 21:08 |
| russellb | #help could use feedback on user-locale-api review | 21:08 |
| mriedem | says it's merged | 21:08 |
| mrodden | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30479/ | 21:08 |
| mrodden | oh | 21:08 |
| mrodden | that one | 21:08 |
| mriedem | yeah | 21:08 |
| russellb | i can't pull it up right now ... on edge internet :-/ | 21:09 |
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| russellb | blueprint set to "Needs Code Review" ? | 21:09 |
| mrodden | my main concern is that it took a lot of iterations to get it ready for g3 but then was too late to merge | 21:09 |
| mrodden | yeah should be | 21:09 |
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| russellb | ok | 21:10 |
| russellb | well i'll try to look soon | 21:10 |
| mrodden | ok thanks | 21:10 |
| russellb | (and others too i hope) | 21:10 |
| russellb | i've been trying to do a better job of looking at older stuff first | 21:10 |
| russellb | using the next-review script, and looking at my review stats | 21:10 |
| russellb | cyeoh: how's the v3 api stuff coming? | 21:11 |
| cyeoh | I think its progressing fairly well, but nearly all of it is still waiting for review | 21:11 |
| cyeoh | (what we've submitted anyway) | 21:11 |
| russellb | and are review times causing you lots of pain? | 21:11 |
| russellb | i was afraid of that | 21:12 |
| cyeoh | I'm getting concerned because I know we are going to get merge conflicts because of setup.cfg changes | 21:12 |
| russellb | i like the new process you've started using, step 1/2 | 21:12 |
| dripton | The v1 API patches are just copies of files to new places so they should sail through review; it's just getting 2 core people to look at them. | 21:12 |
| cyeoh | last time I checked the v3 api patches were about 30% of the review queue (if only taking into account changes waiting for reviewer rather than submitter) | 21:12 |
| russellb | yeah, but the step 1 patch shouldn't be approved before step 2 | 21:12 |
| russellb | #help really need reviews on v3 API changes, they're easier to review than they seem, i promise :-) | 21:13 |
| cyeoh | that would be very much appreciated and lower my stress levels :-) | 21:13 |
| sdague | I think cyeoh just wants to race with dansmith on depleting all the devstack nodes :) | 21:14 |
| russellb | a lot of core reviewers seem busy with other things ... been slowing things down a bit i think | 21:14 |
| dansmith | sdague: good luck to him | 21:14 |
| cyeoh | sdague :-) | 21:14 |
| russellb | all good stuff :) | 21:14 |
| russellb | i'll see what i can do to encourage more review time | 21:15 |
| russellb | maybe i'll bake cookies | 21:15 |
| devananda | mmm! | 21:15 |
| russellb | we can come back to blueprints and such in open discussion if needed | 21:15 |
| cyeoh | :-) | 21:15 |
| russellb | #topic bugs | 21:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:15 | |
| *** adam_g_ is now known as adam_g | 21:16 | |
| russellb | so, bug triage | 21:16 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/BugTriage | 21:16 |
| russellb | we have this handy process to split up the triage work | 21:16 |
| russellb | there are 68 new bugs right now, most of them tagged | 21:16 |
| russellb | so please check your queue if you signed up to help | 21:16 |
| russellb | and if you didn't sign up, please do | 21:16 |
| dripton | I triaged a bug as WONTFIX today and felt bad about it, but it was an SQLAlchemy bug so there's not much we can do. | 21:16 |
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| russellb | 68 is a bit too high | 21:17 |
| russellb | heh, you shouldn't feel bad :) | 21:17 |
| russellb | was it the ipv6 one? | 21:17 |
| dripton | yes | 21:17 |
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| russellb | cool, i figured | 21:17 |
| russellb | i close bugs sometimes just because i think the bug report isn't good enough | 21:17 |
| russellb | "it doesn't work" | 21:17 |
| russellb | so i'm way more harsh :) | 21:18 |
| dripton | that's why I felt bad about that one; it was totally valid and well written, just not ours | 21:18 |
| russellb | ah, yeah ... well as long as you made all of that clear | 21:18 |
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| melwitt | is there any prereq for signing up for a tag i.e. is there additional permission needed to triage past tagging? | 21:18 |
| russellb | melwitt: you have to be a member of the nova-bugs team on launchpad | 21:18 |
| russellb | but it's an open team (anyone can join) | 21:19 |
| russellb | so, just willingness and time to give | 21:19 |
| melwitt | russellb: ok, thanks | 21:19 |
| russellb | sure | 21:19 |
| dripton | it doesn't take *that* much time. it's like milking cows: it only takes a few minutes but you have to do it every day or the cows kick you | 21:19 |
| russellb | ha | 21:19 |
| russellb | yeah, doesn't take much to do a few | 21:19 |
| russellb | takes a lot if you're the one or two people trying to do most of it (which is what we kinda had before) | 21:20 |
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| dripton | right, but if you're only triaging one tag it's not too bad. | 21:20 |
| russellb | i've been tagging, but not triaging as much, but happy to help on tricky ones | 21:20 |
| russellb | dripton: yeah hope so, spread the pain :) | 21:21 |
| russellb | let's talk subteams | 21:21 |
| russellb | #topic subteams | 21:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "subteams (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:21 | |
| harlowja | hi!! | 21:21 |
| russellb | devananda: what's up with baremetal / ironic ? | 21:21 |
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| russellb | ok, can come back to that one | 21:23 |
| russellb | harlowja: | 21:23 |
| harlowja | howdy | 21:23 |
| russellb | or hartsocks ? | 21:24 |
| russellb | (sorry if it's just my internet sucking here) | 21:24 |
| hartsocks | hey. | 21:24 |
| harlowja | so one flow in cinder is working and awaiting the taskflow library to be released (so that it can be integrated, jenkins is right now complaining about missing dep() | 21:24 |
| russellb | who wants to give an update :) | 21:24 |
| russellb | cool. | 21:24 |
| harlowja | sure, so we are also working with heat folks on there desired requirements | 21:24 |
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| harlowja | it'd be interesting to have a nova equivalent | 21:24 |
| harlowja | *even if its just random thoughts* | 21:24 |
| devananda | russellb: sorry, looked away at an email for a minute... back now :) | 21:25 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/TaskSystemRequirements | 21:25 |
| russellb | harlowja: k, i'd post to the ML | 21:25 |
| harlowja | i'd be interesting to start collecting nova 'ideas/requirements' | 21:25 |
| harlowja | russellb sounds good | 21:25 |
| russellb | anything else? | 21:25 |
| harlowja | so otherwise, just heads down working | 21:25 |
| russellb | cool | 21:25 |
| harlowja | thats about it :) | 21:25 |
| russellb | hartsocks: alright, you're up | 21:25 |
| russellb | hartsocks: i like the weekly emails | 21:25 |
| hartsocks | okee dokee | 21:25 |
| hartsocks | Thanks. | 21:25 |
| russellb | guess you can just link to those here, heh ... but highlights are good too | 21:26 |
| hartsocks | I appreciate the response we got off of that. | 21:26 |
| hartsocks | So… I'll just put out a list of stuff we think is good for core-review | 21:26 |
| russellb | ok | 21:26 |
| hartsocks | I'll send that around on fridays. | 21:26 |
| hartsocks | Otherwise... | 21:26 |
| hartsocks | So we VMwareAPI folks are drilling down on our Blueprints now. | 21:26 |
| hartsocks | We've got most of the critical/high priorty stuff assigned to people | 21:27 |
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| hartsocks | There's only one outstanding bug that needs attention. | 21:27 |
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| hartsocks | We've seen a potential problem with one of the blueprints slated for H2 | 21:27 |
| hartsocks | We may have to move it to H3. | 21:27 |
| hartsocks | We're heads down now and H2 deadlines will be close I feel. | 21:28 |
| russellb | ok, assignee should be able to update that if needed | 21:28 |
| russellb | or ping me (or anyone on nova-drivers) otherwise | 21:28 |
| russellb | ok, to get stuff reviewed in time, try to have code up for review early | 21:28 |
| russellb | stuff that goes up in the last week will almost certainly slip | 21:28 |
| russellb | just based on past experience | 21:28 |
| russellb | sooner the better, of course | 21:28 |
| hartsocks | I've told folks to get there code up by July 11th if they really want it to get in. | 21:28 |
| hartsocks | Perhaps I should say the 4th | 21:29 |
| russellb | perfect | 21:29 |
| russellb | 11th hard deadline, depending on size, there's still risk | 21:29 |
| hartsocks | We really only have 2 working weeks in this release then. | 21:29 |
| russellb | but it's not the havana feature freeze, so not a *hue* deal | 21:29 |
| hartsocks | Yep. | 21:29 |
| hartsocks | Just if you want it in H2. | 21:29 |
| russellb | yep. | 21:29 |
| russellb | and hopefully we can merge as much as we can in h2 | 21:30 |
| russellb | so it's not so heavy in h3 | 21:30 |
| hartsocks | I'm trying to push all the bug fix + put the fires out work… to H2 so we can save H3 work for new hotness. | 21:30 |
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| russellb | heh | 21:30 |
| hartsocks | So we're rolling along. | 21:30 |
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| russellb | cool, thanks for the update. | 21:30 |
| russellb | devananda: alright, how's ironic / baremetal ? | 21:31 |
| devananda | hi! | 21:31 |
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| devananda | prepared a summary, pasting... | 21:31 |
| russellb | wooo | 21:31 |
| devananda | Many open bugs in baremetal still. I've continued to focus on ironic rather than fixing bugs, except for when the bugs are quick to fix. | 21:31 |
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| devananda | dprince and pleia2 have been doing some interesting things testing bare metal with the TOCI project and fixing blocking bugs for their work. some bug fixes have trickled over to ironic from their work. | 21:31 |
| devananda | GheRivero seems to be making good progress porting image utils to glanceclient. Could probably use a few more reviews: | 21:31 |
| devananda | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33327/ | 21:32 |
| devananda | Once that's done, we'll be able to move on implementing the PXE driver in Ironic | 21:32 |
| devananda | that's the last driver we're missing (IPMI and SSH/virtualpowerdriver are done) | 21:32 |
| devananda | I'm addressing the present lack of API and RPC functionality | 21:32 |
| devananda | and NobodyCam is working on integration with keystone, and scripting the installation of ironic services with diskimage-builder. | 21:32 |
| devananda | [EOF] | 21:32 |
| russellb | speaking of API, are you looking at pecan/wsme for your API? | 21:33 |
| devananda | yep | 21:33 |
| russellb | awesome | 21:33 |
| devananda | the basic components are already there and working | 21:33 |
| russellb | cool | 21:33 |
| devananda | i landed api unit tests today | 21:33 |
| devananda | need to actually implement all the handlers for things :) | 21:33 |
| devananda | and RPC layer | 21:33 |
| russellb | boris-42 was wanting to help get those used more throughout openstack, i recommended he check with you to see if you could use help | 21:33 |
| russellb | those == pecan/wsme | 21:33 |
| devananda | great | 21:34 |
| devananda | one of his guys, romcheg, has been working on porting dansmith's object code | 21:34 |
| devananda | so we are using that, too | 21:34 |
| russellb | awesome | 21:34 |
| russellb | which means once it settles we should be looking at oslo-ifying it | 21:34 |
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| devananda | yep | 21:34 |
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| russellb | cool, anything else on baremetal / ironic? | 21:35 |
| devananda | nope | 21:35 |
| russellb | any other subteams wanna give a report? | 21:35 |
| n0ano | scheduler | 21:35 |
| russellb | n0ano: great, go for it | 21:35 |
| n0ano | went over 2 things, scaling - I've started a thread on the mailing list, we'll see how that works out... | 21:36 |
| russellb | ah yes | 21:36 |
| russellb | sounds like consensus was to kill off all of the fanout_cast stuff, which i'm actually happy to hera | 21:36 |
| n0ano | other issue was talked about BP for multiple default AZs (https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/schedule-set-availability-zones), looks like a reasonable idea, he'll be working on implementing it. | 21:37 |
| russellb | beyond scale, fanout also causes some problems with trusted messaging | 21:37 |
| russellb | yep, sounds reasonable to me | 21:37 |
| n0ano | russellb, I still don't undersand, why do the fan out message have more latency than the DB updates, they should be faster | 21:38 |
| russellb | anything else? | 21:38 |
| russellb | #topic open discussion | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:38 | |
| dansmith | I have something for open discussion | 21:39 |
| jog0 | q on the multiple default AZs | 21:39 |
| dansmith | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33888/ | 21:39 |
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| dansmith | tox appears broken in anything but CI after a recent reqs change, that's the revert patch ^^ | 21:39 |
| jog0 | I am a little confused on what the goal is there. | 21:39 |
| russellb | oops | 21:40 |
| russellb | n0ano: because the db updates are "instant" | 21:40 |
| russellb | n0ano: while the fanout stuff is periodic | 21:40 |
| russellb | dansmith: whose patch was it? | 21:40 |
| jog0 | n0ano: ^ | 21:40 |
| dansmith | russellb: geekinutah | 21:40 |
| mrodden | dansmith: checking to see if that solves my tox issue... | 21:40 |
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| n0ano | I would think we just replate the DB updates with a fanout message, then they are no longer periodic | 21:41 |
| dansmith | mrodden: if it's a failure to get oslo.config, then, yeah | 21:41 |
| russellb | ok, +2 | 21:41 |
| dansmith | it fails the nova-requirements test, which I don't know the content of | 21:41 |
| n0ano | the DB can't be `instant', you have to sent a message to the DB server | 21:41 |
| dansmith | is there a gate that prevents going backwards or something? | 21:41 |
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| russellb | n0ano: right, we could, but that's a *ton* of messages | 21:41 |
| jog0 | dansmith: take to the infra team about requirments test | 21:41 |
| n0ano | versus a ton of DB update messages | 21:41 |
| russellb | pretty much | 21:42 |
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| russellb | but thing is, right now we're using the db | 21:42 |
| russellb | the fanout stuff is just wasting resources | 21:42 |
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| devananda | iiuc, db updates will grow linearly with # of nodes, whereas fanout will grow exponentially.... | 21:42 |
| devananda | (it's possible I am thinking of a different conversation, too) | 21:42 |
| russellb | devananda: basically just talking about how the scheduler gets the current state of compute nodes | 21:43 |
| russellb | resource usage and whatnot. | 21:43 |
| n0ano | devananda, I think so, the fanout message is one from each node, adding a new node only adds one message (per state change) | 21:43 |
| jog0 | devananda: AFAIK fanout grows with number of schedulers*compute-nodes and db is number of compute-nodes | 21:43 |
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| devananda | jog0: right. | 21:43 |
| russellb | i don't think people are running many schedulers, but yeah. | 21:44 |
| jog0 | n0ano: we already have the use DB for record keeping paradigm fanout generally breaks that. | 21:44 |
| jog0 | russellb: one of the problems is single threaded scheduler processing all the fanouts, adding another scheduler doesn't make thigns better just the same | 21:44 |
| russellb | fanout also generally kills our ability to move to peer-to-peer messaging, which is much more scalable | 21:44 |
| n0ano | wouldn't the message from the compute node to the scheduler be considered a peer-peer message, shouldn't that fit in? | 21:45 |
| russellb | and fanout isn't as good for trusted messaging, because you don't know the specific endpoint you're talking to | 21:45 |
| russellb | it's one message broadcasted to all schedulers | 21:45 |
| n0ano | the end point is the scheduler, that | 21:46 |
| n0ano | that's a trusted end point | 21:46 |
| russellb | but (at least with amqp) you're not talking to one thing | 21:46 |
| russellb | you're sending 1 message to N things | 21:46 |
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| russellb | guess we should cover it more on the ML | 21:47 |
| russellb | easier to go into detailed discussion there | 21:47 |
| jog0 | n0ano: if we didn't have a notion of a central DB already fanout has more benifits but we already have that concept, so why not use it | 21:47 |
| n0ano | yeah, I think the ML is the proper place to discuss this | 21:47 |
| jog0 | n0ano: question on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/schedule-set-availability-zones how do propose having several default AZs? | 21:47 |
| russellb | isn't it a config option now? | 21:48 |
| lifeless | jog0: because central db's are evil! evil! | 21:48 |
| jog0 | lifeless: perhaps but that is the bigger debate that we should have | 21:48 |
| lifeless | jog0: I was trolling. | 21:48 |
| n0ano | jog0, we already have one default, the BP is about allowing mulitiple defaults if the user doesn't specify one | 21:48 |
| russellb | choose a host from any of these AZs, as opposed to just this one default AZ | 21:49 |
| * russellb shrugs | 21:49 | |
| russellb | seems ok | 21:49 |
| jog0 | n0ano: oh for where VMs go, not for where compute-nodes go? | 21:49 |
| n0ano | russellb, +1 | 21:49 |
| n0ano | jog0, correct | 21:49 |
| jog0 | that makes alot more sense | 21:49 |
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| russellb | jog0: right :) | 21:49 |
| n0ano | it took a long discussion to understand what the BP was proposing but we got it at the end :-) | 21:49 |
| jog0 | that wasn't clear to me from the BP | 21:50 |
| russellb | jog0: but btw ... don't host aggregates allow you to technically put a compute node in more than 1 AZ? | 21:50 |
| jog0 | russellb: yeah | 21:50 |
| russellb | n0ano: should update theblueprint then with clarification | 21:50 |
| n0ano | russellb, that was the suggestion at the meeting | 21:50 |
| russellb | jog0: i don't think our API really deals with that | 21:50 |
| jog0 | russellb: yeah, that is currently a don't do for deployers | 21:50 |
| jog0 | russellb: they don't | 21:51 |
| * russellb nods | 21:51 | |
| russellb | so you just have plenty of rope | 21:51 |
| jog0 | yeah ... | 21:51 |
| russellb | be careful, don't hurt yourself | 21:51 |
| russellb | k | 21:51 |
| russellb | i guess we could put in a safeguard ... | 21:51 |
| russellb | block adding a host to an aggregate with an AZ set, if it's already in another aggregate with an AZ set | 21:52 |
| jog0 | russellb: not against the idea, didn't seem worth it at the time though. took the deployers should be careful approach initially | 21:52 |
| russellb | yeah | 21:52 |
| russellb | i think it works from a scheduling point of view | 21:52 |
| jog0 | russellb: taht isn't enough, because you can add a aggregate to become an AZ afterwards too | 21:52 |
| russellb | just reflecting data back through the APi doesn't account for it | 21:52 |
| russellb | ah, yeah. | 21:52 |
| russellb | well, guess we'll leave it alone for now then :) | 21:53 |
| jog0 | russellb: API just lists all AZs with commans in between | 21:53 |
| russellb | oh it does? | 21:53 |
| russellb | well then, it's fine | 21:53 |
| jog0 | last time I checked at least | 21:53 |
| russellb | i just misread it then | 21:53 |
| russellb | alrighty, coming up on time ... | 21:54 |
| russellb | any last minute comments/questions/concerns? | 21:54 |
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| russellb | alright, feel free to stop by #openstack-nova any other time you want to chat. | 21:55 |
| russellb | thanks! | 21:55 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 21:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Jun 20 21:55:16 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-06-20-21.02.html | 21:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-06-20-21.02.txt | 21:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2013/nova.2013-06-20-21.02.log.html | 21:55 |
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