Thursday, 2013-06-20

reed1) i'm not sure that sending email works00:00
reed2) when we get email from askbot it lists evgeny_ as forum moderator00:00
reednot sure if that's the intended behavior00:00
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evgeny_what brings the concern 1)?00:01
reedevgeny_: I get only updates from questions I have edited and only once last week I have received the weekly summary00:01
reedand my subscriptions page has lots more emails00:01
reedbut I haven't spent too much time investigating and that's why I haven't filed a bug yet00:02
reedaccording to I should get lots of daily emails00:02
reedI don't... I only get the notifications immediately from questinos I have edited/answered00:02
evgeny_I see00:03
evgeny_there is minimum karma to trigger notifications  maybe that00:03
reedI should have plenty of karma now to receive notifications00:03
evgeny_if user has < 15 they don't trigger email to anyone except admins00:04
fifieldtreed, you have 400 or so IIRC00:04
evgeny_that applies to karma of the author00:04
evgeny_the idea is that low karma users are likely to spam00:04
evgeny_we can lower this to 100:04
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reedevgeny_: shouldn't I be getting daily summaries for the tags I decided to follow?00:05
reedindependently from the karma of their authors?00:05
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evgeny_reed - that's up to you (the first part - what to subscribe to)00:05
evgeny_but yes maybe let me think00:05
evgeny_the issue is that spammers almost always have the lowest karma00:06
reedevgeny_: that's the issue: I have never received notifications from subscriptions00:06
evgeny_let's see, I'll lower this.00:06
reedor probably only once... which is when I realised that you are listed as contact point00:06
reedhow do we edit the outgoing emails?00:07
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evgeny_ok - so I will look into the mail sending00:07
reedthat concludes the list, I think00:08
evgeny_ATM there is no way to edit content of email via the UI00:08
evgeny_we have templates00:08
evgeny_on disk00:08
evgeny_we can implement fields for the email snippets00:08
reedcan we put them on the git repository somewhere where we can edit them?00:08
evgeny_also we can customize templates in the themem00:08
evgeny_- yes theme is in the repo00:09
reedyeah, I'd say go with that00:09
evgeny_Maybe a better approach would be to add settings options00:09
evgeny_then you'll be able to tweak messages easier00:09
reedupdated the bug00:10
evgeny_- that will apply sometimes only to certain snippets of text00:10
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evgeny_such as preamble, footer00:10
reedthe easiest, fastest way is the best :)00:10
evgeny_option will be quick00:10
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evgeny_should we make another ticked for that?00:11
reedevgeny_: for tweaking messages?00:11
reedI think it's better to solve this one the easy/fast way first and make a note to develop a more elegant solution00:12
reedi think we're done with reviewing/triaging bugs00:12
reedand we're almost done with time, too00:12
fifieldtwell, bugs for the ask project00:12
evgeny_it's actually fast00:12
fifieldtthere are others00:12
evgeny_as it does not require to create new files00:13
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evgeny_I add options00:13
reedfifieldt: yeah, but the other providers are not here00:13
evgeny_and inject optional text into the templates00:13
reedevgeny_: as you prefer, as long as that is fixed :)00:14
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reedfifieldt: other things to discuss?00:16
reedfifieldt: for the other bugs tracked there I will talk to Bitergia and zagile00:16
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fifieldtthere's also some ones not covered by those guys I think :)00:17
fifieldterm, what else is on the agenda/00:17
fifieldt how to help developers consuming API  ?00:17
reedfifieldt: yeah00:17
fifieldtI had a good chat with everett yesterday00:17
reedwanted to discuss that with Everett00:17
fifieldtgot some ideas00:17
fifieldtwill write them up and email ?00:17
reed#topic how to help developers consuming API00:17
reedfifieldt: sounds like a good idea :)00:18
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evgeny_reed: is this still re: askbot?00:18
fifieldtopenstack api00:18
fifieldtsorry for confusion00:18
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reed#action fifieldt to summarise conversation with Everett about helping developers consuming OpenStack00:18
evgeny_ok, thanks00:19
reed#topic other, various stuff00:19
reedanything else?00:19
reedif not we should close and go get beers00:19
reedat least in this timezone00:19
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reedI apologize for all this trouble... next time that the meeting happens when I'm not in the office I'll make sure there is an weechat I can use00:20
reednot sure I can end it since I didn't start it00:20
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun 20 00:20:59 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)00:21
openstackMinutes (text):
fifieldtmaybe we shouldn't end - perpetual community meeting :)00:21
fifieldthave fun reed!00:21
reedthanks y'all00:21
fifieldtthanks evgeny_!00:21
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sdaguepeople around for qa meeting?17:00
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sdague#startmeeting qa17:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 20 17:01:38 2013 UTC.  The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:01
sdague#topic Blueprint Status17:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprint Status (Meeting topic: qa)"17:02
sdagueplease check in with any updated info on your blueprints using the #info tag17:02
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sdaguewe'll give everyone a minute or two on that17:02
mtreinishsdague: no blueprint link this time?17:03
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sdaguesorry, I'm slow :)17:03
sdaguethose are the havana 2 blueprints, which we are only 3 weeks away from, and there are a lot there17:04
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davidkranzI'm going to try to get some progress on the stress tests.17:05
sdaguedavidkranz: what's need to close out the stress test one17:05
sdagueok, great17:05
davidkranzVolume was just added.17:05
davidkranzsdague: The most important thing is to create the job that will run it17:05
davidkranzsdague: And set a periodic build.17:05
davidkranzsdague: RIght now there is nothing making sure it actually works.17:06
davidkranzsdague: But there is an issue that these tests are really targeted to run in an environment not supported upstream.17:06
sdaguedavidkranz: ok, great, is that still doable for havana-2?17:06
davidkranzsdague: I am checking on that and will update accordingly.17:07
sdaguedavidkranz: well I think we had a policy that if we can't run it in CI some how (periodic or otherwise) it can't really be in tempest17:07
sdaguebecause otherwise we get bit rot17:07
mtreinishthat was a big issue with the old stress tests.17:07
sdagueright, exactly17:07
davidkranzmtreinish: Unfortunately the reason the old stress tests could not be run still remains.17:08
davidkranzmtreinish: All the bogus log errors.17:08
sdaguedavidkranz: well we can run it as a non enforcing job17:08
sdaguealso, if there are specific bugs for each error in the logs, they are likely to get addressed17:08
davidkranzsdague: We need to do that anyway but the real issue if false positives if we can't check the log for legitimat errors17:09
davidkranztyping too fast...17:09
davidkranzsdague: I filed a whole bunch of bugs a few months ago17:10
sdaguedavidkranz: sure, but we can call out the false possitives to code around them, much like skips in our tempest code17:10
davidkranzsdague: Some were fixed, some not.17:10
davidkranzsdague: Yes, we can do that but it is very fragile.17:10
sdagueok, well lets leave it at the following17:10
sdague#action davidkranz to see if stress tests can be completed for h2 milestone17:11
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davidkranzsdague: OK17:11
sdaguemtreinish: I know I put testr later in the agenda, but you want to talk about it now, given that it's also a critical blueprint?17:11
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mtreinishsdague: sure17:11
davidkranzmtreinish: Is there any issue with the admin tests running in parallel?17:12
davidkranzmtreinish: There is no tenant isolation there.17:12
mtreinishso I've got a patch pending for testr that partitions on test classes and it's giving runtime numbers that are what we expect17:12
mtreinishdavidkranz: not that I've seen in my runs17:12
davidkranzmtreinish: Great!17:12
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sdaguemtreinish: any word from lifeless yet about his evaluation on the patch?17:13
mtreinishI'm waiting on lifeless to review the testr patch before I push out a change that moves run_tests and tox over to testr17:13
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sdagueok, cool17:13
mtreinishonce it gets merged we should be able use testr for everything17:14
mtreinishI'm sure it will shake loose some races but we debug those as they come up17:14
sdaguethat will be great17:14
mtreinishbut at least locally things have been fairly stable on my dev box17:14
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davidkranzmtreinish: Maybe we should keep it work in progress and rerun it a bunch of times before merging?17:15
sdaguemtreinish: you want to update that blueprint to good progress?17:15
mtreinishif anyone cares I've put some initial numbers up here:
sdague#link initial tester numbers17:15
mtreinishalso the testr patch is here if anyone wants to try it:
sdague#info now Good Progress, just waiting for test patch inclusion17:15
davidkranzmtreinish: I would hesitate to put that in the gate based on one successful run.17:15
sdaguedavidkranz: yeh, probably we'd want to make a separate tox rule for a full run17:16
sdagueand run it in shadow mode for a week or two17:16
sdaguejust to make sure we are good17:16
davidkranzsdague: Sounds good to me.17:16
mtreinishdavidkranz: yeah that's a fair point17:16
mtreinishsdague: yeah sounds like a good idea17:16
sdagueok, anything else on blueprints?17:17
sdagueand, anyone here besides just us 3 :)17:17
mtreinishalso testr has '--until-failure' and '--analyze-isolation' which we could maybe setup as a periodic too17:17
davidkranzmtreinish: Do you have a feel as to why the speedup falls sharply after 2x?17:17
davidkranzmtreinish: Of course 2x would be great :)17:18
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sdaguedavidkranz: I think one thing that came up is that it's not using the timing database to optimize17:18
mtreinishdavidkranz: not really, I was happy with the numbers but I haven't looked into optimizing them further yet17:18
mtreinishI'm sure there is room for improvment17:18
sdaguehey afazekas17:19
davidkranzmtreinish: Sure, just curious. At some point it will slow just due to load.17:19
sdagueafazekas: anything from you on blueprints before we move to reviews?17:19
afazekas_hey sdague17:19
sdagueok, reviews17:20
sdague#topic Reviews that need attension17:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Reviews that need attension (Meeting topic: qa)"17:20
afazekas_I will try to figure out why I have the issue with glance+swift+wc2, after that I will try to reproduce the real ec2 issue in a loop (as background job), at the same time I will work on the resource leak ,  and add some docs17:20
sdaguelooks like we actually have a lot of reviews with 1 +2 on them17:21
davidkranzsdague: Well, there is  :)17:21
davidkranzsdague: I think a few are waiting for non-red-hat approval.17:21
mtreinishdavidkranz: sdague started a ml thread on that one17:21
sdaguedavidkranz: sure, I'll take a look later today17:21
davidkranzmtreinish: I know. Should be fun. We've been down this road before. Swift folks just don't agree with the API stability policy.17:22
sdaguedavidkranz: yeh, on the swift one there is a thread here:
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sdagueok, I need to go figure out why my patch died on pg17:23
sdaguedidn't notice that one yet17:23
sdagueok, any other reviews of note?17:23
sdagueok, so the last thing on the agenda which we didn't yet talk about was multiple api versions -
sdague#topic Multiple API versions17:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Multiple API versions (Meeting topic: qa)"17:24
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sdaguethere was an ML thread on this, we think it's resolved enough there, or is there need for more discussion?17:24
mtreinishsdague: that fail should just be a recheck. I opened a bug for it here:
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1192990 in devstack "Keystone certificate error with heat" [Undecided,New]17:25
davidkranzsdague: I don't think it is quite resolved there but we could continue the discussion there.17:25
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sdagueok, we'll take the discussion there17:25
davidkranzMy issue is how we test new and old versions that bhavior has not changed without duplicating the tests.17:26
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sdague#topic Open Discussion17:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: qa)"17:26
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sdaguedavidkranz: I don't think you can17:26
davidkranzsdague: That is a big problem given the size of nova, e.g.17:26
sdagueduplicating is probably the right way from an issolation perspective, it also lets you remove old versions over time17:26
mtreinishdavidkranz: yeah there is no guarentee something won't change between versions so we just have too test both17:26
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sdaguedavidkranz: nova is duplicating the code paths internally for the same reason17:26
davidkranzmtreinish: Yes but I hope we can find a way to duplicate dynamically but not statically.17:27
sdaguedavidkranz: the resource structures are going to change as well17:27
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davidkranzmtreinish: The test code will be the same if the behavior has not changed.17:27
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sdaguedavidkranz: the reason for the new api is because it did change17:27
mtreinishdavidkranz: not necessarily things like return codes will probably change17:27
sdagueif it didn't change, you wouldn't need a bump17:27
davidkranzsdague: Every api changed?17:27
afazekas_I am not sure the current '_interface'  solution is the nicest way how to avoid code duplication, but it works17:28
afazekas_the services could be responsible for the error code checking17:28
davidkranzWe can continue this on the list but a real proposal is needed.17:28
sdaguedavidkranz: probably not every, but enough move around that it's easy to miss a test bug inside a complicated if / else around versions17:28
afazekas_'services' ie. rest_clients17:28
davidkranzsdague: OK, I did not realize it was this extensive.17:29
sdaguethings like tenant ids in urls going away17:29
davidkranzsdague: That is a localized change.17:29
davidkranzsdague: Obviously the rest client will change.17:29
sdagueyeh, but the problem is that you can come from 2 points of view17:29
sdagueassume it is all the same, and put complexity into the tests when it's different17:29
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sdagueor assume it's all different, and factor out common bits when it's the same17:30
sdagueI feel like not knowing how same or different it will end up, option 2 is safer17:30
davidkranzsdague: I hope it is the first. Otherwise users who upgrade will suffer a lot.17:30
sdaguedavidkranz: that's why it's a major version bump17:30
sdagueand why v2 will still be in havana17:31
davidkranzsdague: If history is a guide, once we get more stable there will be a lot of resistance to changes in major versions as well unless they are really necessary.17:31
sdaguedavidkranz: honestly, I don't expect v3 to be the final word, if the interfaces don't evolve over time, they don't stay relevant17:32
sdaguebut that's a meta discussion :)17:32
davidkranzsdague: Right.17:32
sdagueok, anything else from folks17:32
mtreinishnothing from me17:33
sdagueok, thanks all17:33
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings ||"17:33
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun 20 17:33:43 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:33
openstackMinutes (text):
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hyakuhei_Hmmm, No Bryan here today18:03
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:04
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 20 18:04:26 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:04
bdpaynehi all, sorry I'm a little late18:04
hyakuheiThank good, I was just going to google how to startmeeting again lol18:04
bdpayneso who all do we have today?18:05
bdpayneBryan from Nebula here :-)18:05
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elo_Eric from VMware/Nicira here18:05
bdpaynehi Eric18:05
bdpaynean hi Rob18:05
abhisriabhinav from AT&T Research here.18:05
joel-coffmanJoel from API18:06
bpbBruce from APL18:06
bdpaynegreat, nice group18:06
hyakuhei:) Nice to have some people here today.18:06
bdpayneSo first thing to mention is that there will be *no* IRC meeting next week18:06
bdpayneNext week is the book sprint effort, so many of us will be knee deep in that18:06
bdpayneWe'll return to our normal schedule the following week18:07
bdpayneI'll update the web page accordingly18:07
bdpaynethis one
bdpayneAny items that people want to discuss today?18:07
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hyakuheiYeah, can someone take a look at check it for accuracy/stupidity before I publish it?18:08
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1174153 in ossn "data from previous tenants accessible with nova baremetal" [High,New]18:08
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bdpayneuvirtbot you have a link?18:09
uvirtbotbdpayne: Error: "you" is not a valid command.18:09
bdpayneoh, that really is a bot?18:09
bdpayneok, moving on18:09
bdpayneso I'd like to discuss growing the group, getting more people involved, etc18:10
noslzzpnoslzzp is here..18:10
bdpaynesince no one else suggested topics, let's start with that one18:10
hyakuheiI also have an SSL one and a keystone one coming soon. Anyone else fancy writing some18:10
bdpaynebasically, we have lots of people joining OSSG lately18:10
bdpayneand I'd like to have a better intro process and clear paths for getting people involved18:10
hyakuheiIt would be good to get more discussion running on-list and a better way to welcome people in too18:11
bdpayneso… where do you guys see as places that need help these days18:11
bdpayne#action improve email list discussion18:11
hyakuheiI'd be interested to hear from guys like APL here.18:11
bdpayne#action find better way to introduce new people18:11
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bdpayneand new people too (looking at you abhisri)18:12
rellerrellerWhat do you mean by need help?  I'm a little confused.18:12
rellerrellerYou mean like actions like review each service.18:12
bdpayneso the typical workflow is that someone joins OSSG18:12
bdpaynethen asked me how they can help18:13
bdpayneI'd like to have a set way to get people integrated into OS projects, help improve security in various ways, etc18:13
hyakuheiProjects like OSSN are a good way to start out18:13
bdpayneso by help, I mean… what needs to be done18:13
bdpayneto improve openstack security18:13
bdpayneclearly there's people helping at the code level (code reviews, etc)18:14
hyakuheiTBH I don't think asking new people to integrate into OS projects will work, it needs to be the inverse. We need to recruit people into the OSSG who are already well integrated in projects18:14
bdpaynedo we need someone reviewing security development lifecycle stuff (for example)?18:14
joel-coffmanI tend to agree with hyakuhei18:14
bdpaynehyakuhei I hear you, but reality says that it won't always happen that way18:15
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bdpayneI guess we could just tell new people to go get involved in a project and come back when they have some experience18:15
hyakuheiI'm open to both options - you guys hired all the tech leads, can't nebula just make this happen 1?! ;)18:15
bdpaynebut what about less technical people… is there a role for them here too?18:15
* bdpayne has no comment18:16
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joel-coffmanbdpayne: or encourage people interested in security to become involved in a particular project18:16
hyakuheiYes, OSSN is a good place to start once the hardening guide is released there'll be lots of scope for help developing that18:16
bdpaynethis is a good point18:16
joel-coffmani.e., they may be able to position themselves as the de facto security person for that project18:17
bdpaynegetting some initial work laid down, will make it easier for people to make incremental contributions18:17
bdpaynejoel-coffman yes, this is what I'd really like to see happen18:17
bdpaynespecifically to have OSSG people on each project18:17
rellerrellerReviewing security blue prints and code submissions would be helpful18:17
bdpaynegetting there has proven challenging though18:18
bdpayneso I'm open to ideas18:18
bdpaynehmm, here's a thought18:18
bdpayneperhaps we should come up with good security projects that happen in each core project18:18
hyakuheiYes it would18:18
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bdpayneso a security person could work on that18:18
rellerrellerAnd open security questions that need research18:18
bdpayneand then use that to learn the core project18:18
bdpayneand then transition to the core project rep18:18
bdpaynesort of like what APL has done with volume encryption18:19
bdpayneassuming someone from APL would then be willing to be an OSSG rep for nova and/or cinder18:19
bdpaynethoughts on that approach?18:19
hyakuheiAre we happy with the way we currently use LP for the OSSG. Would it be better served on the openstack wiki?18:20
hyakuheiApproach seems sound18:20
bdpayneI think there would be value in using the wiki18:20
bdpaynewe could have it be a landing place for security improvement projects for each core project18:20
bdpayneand for security research ideas18:20
joel-coffmanstarting with a "large" security project has been challenging at times18:21
bdpayneI have no doubt18:21
bdpaynebut I'm sure you have learned a ton in the process18:21
joel-coffmanbug fixes and incremental changes may be a better way to become involved in the large projects (e.g., nova)18:21
bdpayneI'm starting to envision a series of steps for getting involved18:22
bdpayne1) do some bug fixes18:22
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bdpayne2) find useful incremental changes18:22
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bdpayne3) take on a larger security improvement18:22
bdpayne4) become OSSG rep for said project18:22
bdpayneand then we could provide a wiki page with ideas of what people could do for 1-3 for each of the core projects18:22
bdpayneclearly people with existing expertise could short circuit the process, for example if they wanted to be an OSSG rep and had the skills to do so18:23
bdpaynebut this would help guide people on getting their feet wet18:23
joel-coffmanagreed, a triage system for bugs and ideas for incremental changes would be a good place to start18:23
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bdpayneI wonder if the wiki could show a search result as part of the page18:24
bdpaynewe could setup a search for security bugs, and things commits with security impact tags, etc18:24
bdpayne#action bdpayne to setup landing page (wiki??) to help guide new OSSG members for getting started with code-level contributions18:25
hyakuhei^ The ML already covers some of that of course18:25
uvirtbothyakuhei: Error: "The" is not a valid command.18:25
bdpaynebut new people may or may not find it useful to search ML archives18:26
bdpaynehaving a web page to point people at would be useful here, I think18:26
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bdpayneok, this has been very helpful guys… thanks!18:26
bdpayneanything else to discuss today?18:26
joel-coffmanagreed, the wiki is better (even if it links to the mailing list archives)18:26
bpbJust wanted to give a heads up that the APL work on volume encryption is progressing.  Shooting for Havana-218:26
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bpbNova changes (uses a hard-coded key instead of upcoming key manager)
joel-coffmanwe're getting ready to remove the "work in progress" tag for part of our volume encryption submission18:27
bpbNova changes to incorporate key manager interface
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bpbAnd lastly, the Cinder changes
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hyakuheibdp would you be interested in chatting with some of the HP Labs cryptographers? They might be in a position to lend a hand18:27
bdpayne#action let's get some eyes on those18:28
bpbLet's talk offline18:28
joel-coffmanthanks, we'd appreciate the reviews 'cause we want volume encryption to land in H218:28
bdpayneok, I think that's all for today18:28
bdpaynethanks for everyone for joining in18:29
bdpayneremember, next meeting is in 2 weeks18:29
hyakuheiThanks bdpayne !18:29
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings ||"18:29
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun 20 18:29:33 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:29
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harlowja#startmeeting state-management20:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 20 20:00:58 2013 UTC.  The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'state_management'20:01
harlowjaah, just slow20:01
harlowjahi there!20:01
harlowjahi hi20:01
harlowja*sorry about getting that invite email out late* always get busy with other stuff and forget to send it, lol20:01
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harlowja#action harlowja make cron-job that sends it ;)20:02
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harlowjaso maybe just a little status check before moving to other stuff20:02
harlowja#topic status-check20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "status-check (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:02
harlowjawho all has anything to report?20:03
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harlowja*i do*20:03
kebraycreate an action for me to propose a TaskFlow talk for summit, please :-)20:03
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harlowjaany problems/things being worked on that are really cool?? ;)20:03
kebrayor, I guess I can create actions too?20:03
adrian_ottoanyone can20:03
harlowja#action kebray taskflow talk for HK summit20:03
harlowjathere u go20:03
* kebray celebrates technology.20:04
jlucciUmm, not too much here. Been doing a lot of documentation/research type stuff20:04
harlowjaso i got cinder to work using the current taskflow, unit tests are adjusted, nothing major there, working on a few review comments and awaiting final merge (need taskflow to appear somewhere first)20:04
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harlowja*the cinder flow for creating a volume*20:04
adrian_ottokudos, harlowja20:04
adrian_ottothat's a milestone worth recognizing, for sure20:05
harlowjadef, its a piece of the puzzle20:05
harlowja*reminds me of the nova prototype a little that we showed at the prefvious summit20:05
kebrayawesome harlowja!  I've been following the gerrit reviews.. you've done great work.20:05
harlowjaalot of people liking it, so thats great20:06
harlowjamakes me feel good, haha, "While I definitely applaud this work," and such...20:06
harlowjaso thats great :)20:06
harlowjajlucci what kind of research/documentation stuffs?20:06
jlucciSo, I explored gear as a possible option to replace celery in distributed20:07
harlowja#link i think right?20:07
jlucciSince infra was already using gearman, using gear might've made some people less antsy to introuce a new dependency20:07
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jlucciHowever, through said research, found that gear actually required more overhead than celery, in that you had to spin up and maintain a delegated gearserver20:08
harlowjai've talked to others and they agree, celery seems better than gearman20:08
jlucciWhile you can run celery locally without any additional resources required (although you can split it up if you felt like it)20:08
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jlucciDocumented exactly what celery is, what the architecture looks like, usage, and how to debug20:09
harlowjareminds me also20:09
harlowja#link for the wiki i was assigned to work on20:09
harlowja*pieces filling in*20:09
jlucciFor anyone unfamiliar with celery to sort of answer all the questions peeps keep asing20:09
jlucciasking *20:09
jlucciYeah. The wiki is looking good!20:09
harlowjavery cool!20:09
kebrayjlucci.. one piece of feedback on the Celery wiki… you make several references to "Celery Client", but the "Client" doesn't show up in any of your diagrams.20:09
jlucciAh yeah20:10
kebrayBut, overall, looks great!20:10
jlucciThe client is part of your application20:10
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jlucciI guess I should say that somewhere. :P20:10
harlowjakebray adrian_otto  if u want to checkover that'd be great also, hopefully nothing to incorrect there ;)20:10
harlowja*any others feedback is welcome to*20:10
jlucciAnywaaay. That stuff, trying to get to harlowja's reviews as well20:10
harlowjathx :)20:10
kebrayk… read that one at some point, but need to spend more time with it.  I will review.20:10
harlowjamuch appreciated20:11
jlucciAnd that's it for me20:11
harlowjacool, same for me, kchenweijie how are u doin20:11
harlowjahopefully don't hate me that much yet ;)20:11
kchenweijiedoing well. working on making the generic types the api, like we discussed in the other irc yesterday20:11
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kchenweijieits working so far, so i just need to finish it up20:11
kchenweijieill submit another code review as soon as its done20:12
harlowjasounds great20:12
adrian_otto#action adrian_otto to review/edit
harlowjathx adrian_otto20:12
kchenweijiethats pretty much it for me20:12
harlowja*its not complete, not sure it will ever be of course ;)20:12
harlowjagreat stuff20:12
harlowjaany at&t folks around??20:13
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harlowjawe followed up with the nttdata folks, they are doing a little, but mostly busy with other stuff at the moment (guess thats how it goes(20:13
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harlowjachangbl any kind of stuff u need help with, or want any input on?20:13
harlowjaor any other complaints ... ;)20:14
changblharlowja, sorry that my progress indeed got delayed20:14
harlowjanp, its how it goes :)20:14
changblYun Mao here is leaving the company, and I need to take over his projects20:14
changblI planned to work on ZK backend storage and locking20:15
harlowjais he leaving openstack also?20:15
harlowja*if u know*20:15
adrian_ottoI did some research on locking using an SQL table20:15
changblharlowja, maybe, less relevant to openstack20:15
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changblhe will join FB20:15
harlowjaah, double sad20:15
harlowjaadrian_otto what did u find out :)20:16
adrian_ottoand I'm now convinced that it could be done safely with MySQL, because the isolation level is selectable within the session.20:16
harlowjavery cool, adrian_otto do u want to do the locking api ;)20:16
adrian_ottoso that could work for low concurrency use cases where ZK is not desired20:16
adrian_ottoat the very least I'll outline it20:16
changblharlowja, i will still stick to ZK backend for storage and locking, how does the plan sound?20:16
harlowjachangbl that'd be great, if u have time, but completly understandable if u don't20:17
changblharlowja, thanks!20:17
harlowjaadrian_otto that would be much appreciated, more knoweldge sharing the better20:17
adrian_ottofor the locking API, are we thinking library methods, or a REST interface?20:17
adrian_ottoit's probably only useful if you can reach it remotely in the distributed use cases20:18
harlowjalibrary i think, but library backends could be one with a rest interface20:18
adrian_ottoyes, that's what I'm thinking as well20:19
jlucci+1 library20:19
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adrian_ottook, jlucci let's plan to touch base on this so we end up with something that works with your distributed use case20:19
jlucciSounds good to em20:20
jluccime *20:20
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harlowjaany nova folks in the room, i have been watching a little there, but would be interested in how that is going20:21
harlowjarussellb do u know?20:21
harlowjaok, will wait a little to see whats happening when there meeting happens20:22
harlowjaso how about we open discussion on the heat requirements, does that seem fine?20:23
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harlowja#topic heat-requirements20:24
*** openstack changes topic to "heat-requirements (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:24
harlowja#link #link
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* harlowja letting people check it out20:24
harlowjaa few things that we might have to address (possibly in different ways also)20:25
harlowja- Tasks run in parallel (without going fully distributed?)20:25
harlowja- Tasks can spawn other tasks (this or similar is being discussed right now)20:25
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adrian_ottothe parallel task requirement does not require distributed20:26
harlowja- Tasks can time out (this implies that u have an entity that can kill the task when it times out, the implications of that sound scary)20:26
adrian_ottoif kill=rollback that's not bad20:26
jluccismall interjection - celery (distributed approach here) already has that capability20:27
jlucciIt can also set an action to perform on timeout20:27
jlucciDoesn't necessarily have to be a kill (could be a try this other task instead type thing)20:27
jlucciAnd timeouts can be set during runtime20:27
harlowjabut if kill == stop task will its still running, thats weird, since then u are basically stopping code from running at a random point, that usually requires some pretty complicated stuff (what if the task is using a file, or locks, or ...)20:27
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harlowjai'm pretty sure linux has a whole substructure just to do that cleanup, so we might need to get clarification on the scope of 'kill'/timeout20:28
kebrayharlowja, isn't that what exceptions/desctructor-cleanup stuff is for?  You can signal a task to die, but that doesn't mean it stops execution immediately.. it means it gets a signal to gracefully exit and clean up as soon as possible, no?20:29
adrian_ottoharlowja: ok, make a note in the wiki about what clarification is needed20:29
adrian_ottothere are different kinds of "kill" and that ambiguity needs to be clarified20:29
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kebrayanyway, that's how I interpreted Zane's requirement.. basically to allow for tasks to exit gracefully upon signal to kill-self.20:29
harlowja#action get clarification on timeout20:29
kebrayclarification is good :-)20:29
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harlowjawell that means tasks have checkpoints right?20:30
harlowja#action harlowja  get clarification on timeout20:30
harlowjaso it brings up the question of should tasks have checkpoints, or should workflows have checkpoints and tasks shouldn't...20:30
adrian_ottoin fact, he raises that as a requirement20:30
adrian_ottowhen he mentions yield20:30
harlowjaso that brings up an interesing question, is why should a task have checkpoints, if its a single unit of code that does one thing, why should it be doing many things that require checkpoints ;)20:31
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harlowjasplit up the task instead right?20:31
harlowjathen have the workflow do the checkpointing20:31
adrian_ottoa workflow could be implemented as a task, in which case if tasks support a yield equivalent, then that's enough20:32
adrian_ottoI think that's what he's thinking about when he mentions that tasks create subtasks20:32
harlowjanot quite sure there20:32
jlucciI disagree20:32
jlucciTasks should not be implemented as a workflow20:32
jlucciA task is the smallest executable bit of data within a workflow20:33
jlucciIf you want a task to accomplish multiple things, you should split that task up into a set of tasks20:33
harlowjayielding to me is a way to switch coroutines, which is in a manner creating a structure of yields that is a workflow20:33
harlowjaour workflow is explicit, via yielding u can make it somewhat implicit20:33
harlowjaso this is one of those pieces where the yielding code is different than taskflow :)20:34
harlowjalikely we just need to figure out what way to go, yielding makes it hard to run in distributed afaik, since u need the explicit structure i think20:34
adrian_ottowould that allow the representation of a "arbitrary directed acyclic graph"?20:34
harlowjaso thats another interesting one, its not really arbitary after they construct the DAG right?20:35
harlowjathe user provides a document, they construct the DAG, at that point its not arbitrary anymore20:35
harlowjaso i'm not sure about that requirement so much20:35
adrian_ottoyes, but they are generated on the fly20:35
adrian_ottothat's what he's getting at20:35
adrian_ottoyou need the ability to build one up, and then set it into action20:36
jlucciSooo, I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing this, but distributed has that capability20:36
jlucciYou can create and modify worfklows on the fly/during runtime20:36
harlowjai think the heat requirement isn't even at runtime :)20:36
harlowjait seems to be more of a build time dynamic, which yes we have20:36
harlowjaand build time dynamic is really nice, since then we can analyze it20:37
kebraydistributed can deal with flows that have cycles though..  so, it need not be a DAG, although you could require it to be a DAG.20:37
adrian_ottoin Heat stacks can be modified20:37
adrian_ottoin which case the graph is updated20:37
adrian_ottoso it is a runtime requirement20:37
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harlowjai wonder how much updating they allow, because u can basically invalidate the whole DAG20:38
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harlowjaif a task can invalidate the DAG it is in, i wonder how that DAG being broken is resolved20:38
adrian_ottoI have not reviewed that code, so I can't speak intelligently about the implementation.20:38
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harlowja#action harlowja figure out what kind of DAG modifications heat can do20:39
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kebrayadrian_otto does Heat actually keep the graph around and modify it on a modify stack operation?   I don't know the code well enough to say.20:39
adrian_ottoI think it gets persisted, and can be recalled, but I'm not certain.20:39
harlowjathat scares me, it brings up a whole world of problems when thats possible20:40
harlowjawhich one is persisted, all of the modified ones ;)20:40
harlowjaand so on20:40
harlowjaif a DAG is broken in the middle after an update, do u revert back to the previously persisted one to rollback20:40
adrian_ottoI do know it's possible to ask the api for the current stack in a serialized representation (JSON)20:40
adrian_ottoand that's the current state, not the original statew20:40
adrian_ottoand it comes "from the database"20:40
harlowjai defintly wonder how that works20:41
adrian_ottono rollback is implemented that I know of20:41
adrian_ottoa stack can go into an error state, but can't be rolled back20:41
harlowjaya, i can see why its pretty hard if u allow graph modifications and don't keep the previous graphs ;)20:41
adrian_ottothat's where taskflow could make it much more robust.20:41
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harlowjaagreed, although i wonder the real need for said modifications, if we can avoid them that will make everyones lives easier, haha20:42
harlowjaalthough i know jlucci will be fine with them ;)20:42
kebraymodification to a deployed stack seems like a valid feature.20:42
kebrayimplementation is surely up for debate :-)20:43
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adrian_ottoso it seems that we need the authors of that work to participate in a collaboration session to get a better sense of what's needed.20:43
harlowjasure, in the forward operation where u don't want to go backwards and rollback i totally see it as a feature, until u start asking the questions of errors ;)20:43
harlowjaadrian_otto 100% agreed20:43
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harlowjai think that would help tremendously, we both are doing similar stuff, so why not combine our forces into captain planet20:44
harlowjai mean the best library possible20:44
adrian_ottolet's see if we can arrange that to happen soon20:44
harlowjaand address these issues upfront instead of later20:44
adrian_ottokebray: do you have a list of Rackers who should participate?20:44
jlucciI'll CC on an e-mail thread we've started with Zane, adrian_otto20:44
harlowjasince later to me i think might be pretty painful for heat as a project if they don't think about errors and such, but thats my 2 cents20:44
jlucciIn regards to taskflow/heat compatability and needs20:44
harlowjajlucci thx!20:45
harlowja#action jlucci start nice email thread with heat folks, zaneb, other interesting fellows20:45
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kebrayadrian_otto:  jlucci, randall_burt, you, me, for sure…  there are a few others that may be interested.20:45
adrian_ottoI'm thinking a Hangout+irc might be a good way to discuss this.20:45
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kebrayjlucci, you may want to correspond via the Heat OpenStack mailing list.20:46
kebrayI think there are others that may be interseted.20:46
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harlowjathat'd be fine with me20:46
jlucciSounds good. I'll go ahead and re-do that email then20:46
adrian_ottobut I'm convinced that a requirements discussion is beyond the scope of what openstack-dev is good for20:47
adrian_ottoso let's arrange something interactive that all stakeholders can attend20:47
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adrian_ottokebray: do you want to lead coordination, or do you want a hand with that?20:47
harlowjai'll try to add some comments to the requirments under [jh] and will try not to be to harsh ;)20:48
* harlowja josh be nice20:48
jlucciJust end every sentence with a smiley.20:48
kebrayadrian_otto… I can add it to my to-do list… but, if I haven't gotten around to it in a few days, then will ask for some help :-)20:49
harlowjakebray on a different topic, the summit, how many sessions do u think would be nice, all of them ;)20:49
harlowjai think all of them20:49
adrian_ottolet's simply recognize that Heat is the best OpenStack use case for the taskflow library, and it's important to make sure they get what they need20:49
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kebray#action kebray to coordinate meeting with Heat devs to discuss coordination of task management20:49
harlowja100% agree20:49
harlowjathe other projects, yes, they need it also, but heat is also a core user20:50
adrian_ottokebray: Ok, I will follow up Monday if we don't have the plans secured by then.20:50
harlowjathe other projects def need it to also, so keep that in mind ;)20:50
harlowjanova, cinder...20:50
kebrayharlowja:   I'd like to see TaskFlow become it's own project track at the summit.. not sure how to make that happen.20:50
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harlowja*that would be interesting* (ponder ponder)20:51
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kebray?   we had some IBM'ers express interest in contributing to TaskFlow at one point.. .we have anyone in here from "other" companies than Yahoo, Rackspace, ATT, NTT?20:51
adrian_ottolet's get it to the point where it can give a good demo20:51
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harlowjaadrian_otto sure i think a great demo is useful, but also just the fundamental concepts are useful to, i guess both would be superb20:52
kebrayagreed with adrian_otto… if we can show up at next summit with a kick-butt demo and claim it "stable" for folks to be using, and have the Cinder dependency done, that will be awesome.20:52
jlucci+ 120:52
harlowjaah, that brings up a good question, how much of cinder :-P20:52
harlowjajgriffith yt20:52
jlucciHow much of cinder done?20:52
adrian_ottoideally all of it20:52
harlowjathat might require more than me just chugging away on cinder, lol20:53
adrian_ottowhat's the scope of that effort?20:53
adrian_ottoit need not be all done by you20:53
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jlucciI think it would require some Cinder devs to come on board20:53
harlowjahehe, i think the scope is all encompassing, at least it was,
adrian_ottoif they have good examples to follow it may be easy enough to divide and conquer20:53
harlowja#action harlowja create those examples for jgriffith and hemna20:54
adrian_ottonot sure if they are used to pair sessions, but that's another approach that could work20:54
harlowjapair coding?20:55
adrian_ottocan be done remotely20:55
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harlowjaintersesting, i've never done that, but could be20:55
harlowjai think maybe the examples and such (simple examples) would help20:55
harlowjaand make sure to address more questions that hemna and jgriffith  have :)20:56
harlowja*at your service*20:56
adrian_ottoyes, that's step one, and then you pair up to provide real-time support for them to get the first one done.20:56
adrian_ottoand then they can repeat, repeat20:56
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harlowjathat sounds pretty cool, might work20:56
harlowjahemna any thoughts?20:56
harlowja*ack 4 minutes20:56
harlowjawhere does the time go, lol20:56
hemnasounds good20:57
hemnaI'm still stuck in refactoring nova's attach code into brick20:57
hemnaso I've not been much help with this :(20:57
harlowjadid u guys rename cinder to brick20:57
harlowjadid i miss that email20:57
harlowja*stop renaming stuff people, haha*20:57
harlowjaoh, nm, hehe20:58
hemnanah brick is a subproject for cinder and hopefully nova at some point20:59
harlowjaalright, until next time, anyone need more #openstack-state-management :)20:59
russellbhemna: is that the local storage handling stuff?20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings ||"20:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun 20 20:59:57 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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russellbi guess i should just look.21:00
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harlowjathx much everyone :)21:00
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hemnarussellb, the refactor work I've been working on.21:01
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russellbcool will take a look a bit later21:01
russellb#startmeeting nova21:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Jun 20 21:02:06 2013 UTC.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
russellbhello everyone!  who's around to talk about nova?21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:02
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russellb#topic blueprints21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)"21:02
russellbI think we're actually in decent shape given how much is on the havana-2 list21:03
russellblots of stuff already up for review, which is good21:03
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russellbbut I figured it would be a good time to remind everyone of the schedule ...21:03
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russellbwe're roughly half-way through havana-2 (which means roughly half way through dev time for havana!)21:03
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russellbsooner the better for putting some review time into the bigger stuff for these blueprints , so it's not so much of a rush at the end of this milestone21:05
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russellbany comments/questions about release status / blueprints?21:05
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mroddeni am somewhat concerned about the API locale one I have up21:06
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russellbmrodden: link?21:06
russellband what's the concern?21:06
mroddenits not very glorious of code21:06
mroddenand hasn't had any feedback from any nova core's yet21:06
russellbyeah, don't think i've seen the nova code yet21:07
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mroddenthe oslo stuff got merge yesterday (?)21:07
mroddenso thats cool21:07
russellbwell right, i saw that21:07
russellbis there a nova patch up?21:07
mroddenyep... second21:07
mroddenyep that one21:08
russellb#help could use feedback on user-locale-api review21:08
mriedemsays it's merged21:08
mroddenthat one21:08
russellbi can't pull it up right now ... on edge internet :-/21:09
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russellbblueprint set to "Needs Code Review" ?21:09
mroddenmy main concern is that it took a lot of iterations to get it ready for g3 but then was too late to merge21:09
mroddenyeah should be21:09
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russellbwell i'll try to look soon21:10
mroddenok thanks21:10
russellb(and others too i hope)21:10
russellbi've been trying to do a better job of looking at older stuff first21:10
russellbusing the next-review script, and looking at my review stats21:10
russellbcyeoh: how's the v3 api stuff coming?21:11
cyeohI think its progressing fairly well, but nearly all of it is still waiting for review21:11
cyeoh(what we've submitted anyway)21:11
russellband are review times causing you lots of pain?21:11
russellbi was afraid of that21:12
cyeohI'm getting concerned because I know we are going to get merge conflicts because of setup.cfg changes21:12
russellbi like the new process you've started using, step 1/221:12
driptonThe v1 API patches are just copies of files to new places so they should sail through review; it's just getting 2 core people to look at them.21:12
cyeohlast time I checked the v3 api patches were about 30% of the review queue (if only taking into account changes waiting for reviewer rather than submitter)21:12
russellbyeah, but the step 1 patch shouldn't be approved before step 221:12
russellb#help really need reviews on v3 API changes, they're easier to review than they seem, i promise :-)21:13
cyeohthat would be very much appreciated and lower my stress levels :-)21:13
sdagueI think cyeoh just wants to race with dansmith on depleting all the devstack nodes :)21:14
russellba lot of core reviewers seem busy with other things ... been slowing things down a bit i think21:14
dansmithsdague: good luck to him21:14
cyeohsdague :-)21:14
russellball good stuff :)21:14
russellbi'll see what i can do to encourage more review time21:15
russellbmaybe i'll bake cookies21:15
russellbwe can come back to blueprints and such in open discussion if needed21:15
russellb#topic bugs21:15
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:15
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russellbso, bug triage21:16
russellbwe have this handy process to split up the triage work21:16
russellbthere are 68 new bugs right now, most of them tagged21:16
russellbso please check your queue if you signed up to help21:16
russellband if you didn't sign up, please do21:16
driptonI triaged a bug as WONTFIX today and felt bad about it, but it was an SQLAlchemy bug so there's not much we can do.21:16
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russellb68 is a bit too high21:17
russellbheh, you shouldn't feel bad :)21:17
russellbwas it the ipv6 one?21:17
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russellbcool, i figured21:17
russellbi close bugs sometimes just because i think the bug report isn't good enough21:17
russellb"it doesn't work"21:17
russellbso i'm way more harsh :)21:18
driptonthat's why I felt bad about that one; it was totally valid and well written, just not ours21:18
russellbah, yeah ... well as long as you made all of that clear21:18
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melwittis there any prereq for signing up for a tag i.e. is there additional permission needed to triage past tagging?21:18
russellbmelwitt: you have to be a member of the nova-bugs team on launchpad21:18
russellbbut it's an open team (anyone can join)21:19
russellbso, just willingness and time to give21:19
melwittrussellb: ok, thanks21:19
driptonit doesn't take *that* much time.  it's like milking cows: it only takes a few minutes but you have to do it every day or the cows kick you21:19
russellbyeah, doesn't take much to do a few21:19
russellbtakes a lot if you're the one or two people trying to do most of it (which is what we kinda had before)21:20
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driptonright, but if you're only triaging one tag it's not too bad.21:20
russellbi've been tagging, but not triaging as much, but happy to help on tricky ones21:20
russellbdripton: yeah hope so, spread the pain :)21:21
russellblet's talk subteams21:21
russellb#topic subteams21:21
*** openstack changes topic to "subteams (Meeting topic: nova)"21:21
russellbdevananda: what's up with baremetal / ironic ?21:21
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russellbok, can come back to that one21:23
russellbor hartsocks ?21:24
russellb(sorry if it's just my internet sucking here)21:24
harlowjaso one flow in cinder is working and awaiting the taskflow library to be released (so that it can be integrated, jenkins is right now complaining about missing dep()21:24
russellbwho wants to give an update :)21:24
harlowjasure, so we are also working with heat folks on there desired requirements21:24
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harlowjait'd be interesting to have a nova equivalent21:24
harlowja*even if its just random thoughts*21:24
devanandarussellb: sorry, looked away at an email for a minute... back now :)21:25
russellbharlowja: k, i'd post to the ML21:25
harlowjai'd be interesting to start collecting nova 'ideas/requirements'21:25
harlowjarussellb sounds good21:25
russellbanything else?21:25
harlowjaso otherwise, just heads down working21:25
harlowjathats about it :)21:25
russellbhartsocks: alright, you're up21:25
russellbhartsocks: i like the weekly emails21:25
hartsocksokee dokee21:25
russellbguess you can just link to those here, heh ... but highlights are good too21:26
hartsocksI appreciate the response we got off of that.21:26
hartsocksSo… I'll just put out a list of stuff we think is good for core-review21:26
hartsocksI'll send that around on fridays.21:26
hartsocksSo we VMwareAPI folks are drilling down on our Blueprints now.21:26
hartsocksWe've got most of the critical/high priorty stuff assigned to people21:27
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hartsocksThere's only one outstanding bug that needs attention.21:27
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hartsocksWe've seen a potential problem with one of the blueprints slated for H221:27
hartsocksWe may have to move it to H3.21:27
hartsocksWe're heads down now and H2 deadlines will be close I feel.21:28
russellbok, assignee should be able to update that if needed21:28
russellbor ping me (or anyone on nova-drivers) otherwise21:28
russellbok, to get stuff reviewed in time, try to have code up for review early21:28
russellbstuff that goes up in the last week will almost certainly slip21:28
russellbjust based on past experience21:28
russellbsooner the better, of course21:28
hartsocksI've told folks to get there code up by July 11th if they really want it to get in.21:28
hartsocksPerhaps I should say the 4th21:29
russellb11th hard deadline, depending on size, there's still risk21:29
hartsocksWe really only have 2 working weeks in this release then.21:29
russellbbut it's not the havana feature freeze, so not a *hue* deal21:29
hartsocksJust if you want it in H2.21:29
russellband hopefully we can merge as much as we can in h221:30
russellbso it's not so heavy in h321:30
hartsocksI'm trying to push all the bug fix + put the fires out work… to H2 so we can save H3 work for new hotness.21:30
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hartsocksSo we're rolling along.21:30
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russellbcool, thanks for the update.21:30
russellbdevananda: alright, how's ironic / baremetal ?21:31
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devanandaprepared a summary, pasting...21:31
devanandaMany open bugs in baremetal still. I've continued to focus on ironic rather than fixing bugs, except for when the bugs are quick to fix.21:31
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devanandadprince and pleia2 have been doing some interesting things testing bare metal with the TOCI project and fixing blocking bugs for their work. some bug fixes have trickled over to ironic from their work.21:31
devanandaGheRivero seems to be making good progress porting image utils to glanceclient. Could probably use a few more reviews:21:31
devanandaOnce that's done, we'll be able to move on implementing the PXE driver in Ironic21:32
devanandathat's the last driver we're missing (IPMI and SSH/virtualpowerdriver are done)21:32
devanandaI'm addressing the present lack of API and RPC functionality21:32
devanandaand NobodyCam is working on integration with keystone, and scripting the installation of ironic services with diskimage-builder.21:32
russellbspeaking of API, are you looking at pecan/wsme for your API?21:33
devanandathe basic components are already there and working21:33
devanandai landed api unit tests today21:33
devanandaneed to actually implement all the handlers for things :)21:33
devanandaand RPC layer21:33
russellbboris-42 was wanting to help get those used more throughout openstack, i recommended he check with you to see if you could use help21:33
russellbthose == pecan/wsme21:33
devanandaone of his guys, romcheg, has been working on porting dansmith's object code21:34
devanandaso we are using that, too21:34
russellbwhich means once it settles we should be looking at oslo-ifying it21:34
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russellbcool, anything else on baremetal / ironic?21:35
russellbany other subteams wanna give a report?21:35
russellbn0ano: great, go for it21:35
n0anowent over 2 things, scaling - I've started a thread on the mailing list, we'll see how that works out...21:36
russellbah yes21:36
russellbsounds like consensus was to kill off all of the fanout_cast stuff, which i'm actually happy to hera21:36
n0anoother issue was talked about BP for multiple default AZs (, looks like a reasonable idea, he'll be working on implementing it.21:37
russellbbeyond scale, fanout also causes some problems with trusted messaging21:37
russellbyep, sounds reasonable to me21:37
n0anorussellb, I still don't undersand, why do the fan out message have more latency than the DB updates, they should be faster21:38
russellbanything else?21:38
russellb#topic open discussion21:38
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:38
dansmithI have something for open discussion21:39
jog0q on the multiple default AZs21:39
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dansmithtox appears broken in anything but CI after a recent reqs change, that's the revert patch ^^21:39
jog0I am a little confused on what the goal is there.21:39
russellbn0ano: because the db updates are "instant"21:40
russellbn0ano: while the fanout stuff is periodic21:40
russellbdansmith: whose patch was it?21:40
jog0n0ano: ^21:40
dansmithrussellb: geekinutah21:40
mroddendansmith: checking to see if that solves my tox issue...21:40
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n0anoI would think we just replate the DB updates with a fanout message, then they are no longer periodic21:41
dansmithmrodden: if it's a failure to get oslo.config, then, yeah21:41
russellbok, +221:41
dansmithit fails the nova-requirements test, which I don't know the content of21:41
n0anothe DB can't be `instant', you have to sent a message to the DB server21:41
dansmithis there a gate that prevents going backwards or something?21:41
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russellbn0ano: right, we could, but that's a *ton* of messages21:41
jog0dansmith: take to the infra team about requirments test21:41
n0anoversus a ton of DB update messages21:41
russellbpretty much21:42
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russellbbut thing is, right now we're using the db21:42
russellbthe fanout stuff is just wasting resources21:42
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devanandaiiuc, db updates will grow linearly with # of nodes, whereas fanout will grow exponentially....21:42
devananda(it's possible I am thinking of a different conversation, too)21:42
russellbdevananda: basically just talking about how the scheduler gets the current state of compute nodes21:43
russellbresource usage and whatnot.21:43
n0anodevananda, I think so, the fanout message is one from each node, adding a new node only adds one message (per state change)21:43
jog0devananda: AFAIK fanout grows with number of schedulers*compute-nodes and db is number of compute-nodes21:43
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devanandajog0: right.21:43
russellbi don't think people are running many schedulers, but yeah.21:44
jog0n0ano: we already have the use DB for record keeping paradigm fanout generally breaks that.21:44
jog0russellb: one of the problems is single threaded scheduler processing all the fanouts, adding another scheduler doesn't make thigns better just the same21:44
russellbfanout also generally kills our ability to move to peer-to-peer messaging, which is much more scalable21:44
n0anowouldn't the message from the compute node to the scheduler be considered a peer-peer message, shouldn't that fit in?21:45
russellband fanout isn't as good for trusted messaging, because you don't know the specific endpoint you're talking to21:45
russellbit's one message broadcasted to all schedulers21:45
n0anothe end point is the scheduler, that21:46
n0anothat's a trusted end point21:46
russellbbut (at least with amqp) you're not talking to one thing21:46
russellbyou're sending 1 message to N things21:46
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russellbguess we should cover it more on the ML21:47
russellbeasier to go into detailed discussion there21:47
jog0n0ano: if we didn't have a notion of a central DB  already fanout has more benifits but we already have that concept, so why not use it21:47
n0anoyeah, I think the ML is the proper place to discuss this21:47
jog0n0ano: question on how do propose having several default AZs?21:47
russellbisn't it a config option now?21:48
lifelessjog0: because central db's are evil! evil!21:48
jog0lifeless: perhaps but that is the bigger debate that we should have21:48
lifelessjog0: I was trolling.21:48
n0anojog0, we already have one default, the BP is about allowing mulitiple defaults if the user doesn't specify one21:48
russellbchoose a host from any of these AZs, as opposed to just this one default AZ21:49
* russellb shrugs21:49
russellbseems ok21:49
jog0n0ano: oh for where VMs go, not for where compute-nodes go?21:49
n0anorussellb, +121:49
n0anojog0, correct21:49
jog0that makes alot more sense21:49
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russellbjog0: right :)21:49
n0anoit took a long discussion to understand what the BP was proposing but we got it at the end :-)21:49
jog0that wasn't clear to me from the BP21:50
russellbjog0: but btw ... don't host aggregates allow you to technically put a compute node in more than 1 AZ?21:50
jog0russellb: yeah21:50
russellbn0ano: should update theblueprint then with clarification21:50
n0anorussellb, that was the suggestion at the meeting21:50
russellbjog0: i don't think our API really deals with that21:50
jog0russellb: yeah, that is currently a don't do for deployers21:50
jog0russellb: they don't21:51
* russellb nods21:51
russellbso you just have plenty of rope21:51
jog0yeah ...21:51
russellbbe careful, don't hurt yourself21:51
russellbi guess we could put in a safeguard ...21:51
russellbblock adding a host to an aggregate with an AZ set, if it's already in another aggregate with an AZ set21:52
jog0russellb: not against the idea, didn't  seem worth it at the time though.  took the deployers should be careful approach initially21:52
russellbi think it works from a scheduling point of view21:52
jog0russellb: taht isn't enough, because you can add a aggregate to become an AZ afterwards too21:52
russellbjust reflecting data back through the APi doesn't account for it21:52
russellbah, yeah.21:52
russellbwell,  guess we'll leave it alone for now then :)21:53
jog0russellb: API just lists all AZs with commans in between21:53
russellboh it does?21:53
russellbwell then, it's fine21:53
jog0last time I checked at least21:53
russellbi just misread it then21:53
russellbalrighty, coming up on time ...21:54
russellbany last minute comments/questions/concerns?21:54
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russellbalright, feel free to stop by #openstack-nova any other time you want to chat.21:55
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jun 20 21:55:16 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:55
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