Thursday, 2013-07-11

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fifieldthi Daisy06:57
Daisyhi fifieldt06:57
fifieldthow is life?06:57
ujuchi~~~~ Daisy, fifieldt06:58
Daisyvery good. I have a rainy summer in Beijing this year.06:58
Daisyhi, ujuc06:58
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DaisyNice to see you again.06:58
fifieldthi ujuc! How are you?06:58
amotokihi everyon06:58
fifieldthi amotoki!06:58
Daisyhi, amotoki06:58
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ujucKorean is Cloud and raning~~..:(06:58
Daisyany new friends?06:58
Daisyhi, katomo ! are you also from Japan?06:59
katomoI'm new to this meeting.06:59
amotokihe's from japan too06:59
katomoI'm KATO Tomoyuki, from Japan.06:59
Daisythe meeting will be started 1 minute06:59
fifieldthi Kato san07:00
fifieldtgreat to meet you, virtually07:00
Daisyok. let's start.07:00
Daisy#startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting07:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 11 07:00:16 2013 UTC.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.07:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"07:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'07:00
DaisyHello, everyone.07:00
ujucHello, :D07:00
DaisyLet's see if there are any friends from Europ?07:00
jpichI'm here from Ireland, though not a translator07:01
jpichHello :)07:01
fifieldthi jpich :)07:01
DaisyI guess Stephane from French won't join today.07:01
akira__Hello all.07:01
ujuchi jpich :)07:01
DaisyHi, jpich !07:01
Daisyjpich, are you working for Horizon?07:01
jpichI am07:01
DaisyWelcome !07:01
Daisy#topic Action items from the last meeting07:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"07:02
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DaisyDaisy to write instructions in the wiki about creating reviewers and how to review07:03
FdotHello sorry to being late07:03
fifieldthi Fdot07:03
FdotI am representing french community07:03
DaisyI removed the PM role from wiki, and added a new section called "Translation task"07:03
DaisyHi, Fdot . Welcome !07:04
FdotHello fifeldt and Daisy07:04
ujucHi, Fdot, :D07:04
Daisyplease take a look at it.07:04
FdotI am alterning with steff0007:04
DaisyThere are two kinds of taks: regular taks and ad hoc task.07:04
DaisyAd hoc tasks may be requested from community07:05
Daisyasking us to help to translate some materials for meeting or events, or marketing.07:05
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Daisyso these tasks may not be in Transifex. we can call for voluteers through mailing list.07:05
DaisyDaisy to update roles on the wiki based on discussion07:07
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DaisyDaisy to check with Oslo team about the progress of domain seperation.07:07
DaisyTHere is no progress with this blueprint.07:08
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Daisyso we will put the message translation as low priority, except the domain are separated or somebody from some country raise hands to do this work.07:08
DaisyDaisy to check with Doc team about the Japanese version's publish.07:09
DaisyDone. I attended the doc meeting this week. I wll explain it in the next topic07:09
DaisyDaisy to take a look at the source lang in Horizon.07:09
DaisyI'm not able to change the source lang.07:09
DaisyThe only way is to delete the existing resources and upload a new resource, setting the source lang as en.07:10
amotokiDaisy: thanks. it is expected to some extent.07:10
DaisyI have not contacted with Gabriel07:10
DaisyBut I sent email to James and Clark in CI team, and together with Gabriel.07:11
DaisyI will continue to track it.07:11
Daisyok. next one07:11
Daisyfifieldt to mail to Stefano about the statistics in Transifex.07:11
amotokiwe need to coordinate the timing when we recreate repo.07:11
fifieldthi, yes07:11
fifieldtunfortunately stefano was at a conference in the last week07:11
fifieldtand just got back to the US07:11
fifieldtso we haven't met yet07:11
fifieldtCan we retain the action item until next time?07:11
Daisy#action fifieldt to mail to Stefano about the statistics in Transifex.07:12
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Daisynext topic07:12
Daisy#topic Release of document translation07:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Release of document translation (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"07:12
DaisyI want to use Japanese version of operation guide as the PoC of translation release.07:13
Daisybecause Japanese team is the top 1 who has finished the translation of operation guide.07:13
DaisyI had a talk with Anne.07:13
Daisywe'd like to create a new page in docs.openstac.org07:14
DaisyThis page can be a Japanese version of
Daisyor a simple one, because we have only 1 document available in Japanese.07:14
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amotokisounds nice.07:15
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Daisyin order to provide a Japanese index page, what we need to do is to add a new folder under
Daisynamed jp07:15
amotokiDo we need to create a localized top page?07:15
fifieldtunder /jp should be index.html ?07:15
Daisytake a look at
amotokiIf there is some template it would be more helpful07:16
Daisythere is only 1 index page there. So I think it's a similar one.07:16
fifieldtyou could also copy the template from the ops directory if you like that one better07:16
amotokithanks. it looks a good template07:17
Daisywe need somebody to work on the new index page under /jp folder.07:17
DaisyWho would like to do it?07:17
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amotokii cat take it07:17
DaisyThanks, amotoki07:18
amotoki#action amotoki prepare the index page for Japanese localized page07:18
DaisyI think you can work on it, but it's not in a hurry.07:18
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Daisybecause I think, the most challenge work is to publish the html version to the website.07:18
uvirtbotamotoki: Error: "^;" is not a valid command.07:18
DaisyWe need to study the script here:
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DaisyCurrently, the HTML documents are automatically generated with a job in Jenkins and then copy to a specific folder.07:20
DaisyThe in the index, there is a link to the folder, I think, so that when people clicks the link, the document can be displayed.07:20
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DaisyI think it will take some time, base on my previous experiences in developing scripts of Jenkins.07:21
DaisyWill somebody take this job?07:21
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katomoI try it.07:22
DaisyThere is no test environments locally. What the scripts developer can do, is to upload to the server and try.07:22
Daisythanks, katomo.07:22
amotokikatomo: thanks.07:22
DaisyI can work together with you.07:22
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katomoDaisy: thanks.07:22
Daisy#action katomo and Daisy to work on the Jenkins script to publish Japanese operation guide.07:23
Daisyafter these two works are done, the /jp website can be available to show the Japanese document.07:23
amotokii have a question about language code.07:24
DaisyIt will be a great milestone.07:24
katomoBTW, Can we use language code "ja" for a new folder name?  ->
amotokiwhich ja is better ja or jp?07:24
Daisyja is better.07:24
DaisyI agree.07:24
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amotokiThe language code in Transifex and Horizon use "ja".07:24
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akira___ja means Japanese language.07:24
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fifieldtwe can also create aliases between them if you want both :)07:25
akira___jp means Japan.07:25
* fifieldt agrees with akira__07:25
DaisyI think language code is better.07:25
Daisyso we use ja.07:25
Daisywe use zh for Chinese.07:25
Daisynot "cn". :))07:26
Daisyany other questions or comments?07:26
Daisy#topic How to enroll more developers07:26
*** openstack changes topic to "How to enroll more developers (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"07:26
fifieldtquestions Fdot?07:27
Fdotyes it is about the glossary07:27
Fdotyesterday we have made a meeting with the french translators07:27
Fdotand we have a common question :)07:27
Fdotinto Transifex there is no correct glossary07:28
FdotThe common on is empty07:28
Daisycan we leave this question to the public discussion?07:28
FdotBut we can find one very interesting on the wiki07:28
Daisysorry, Fdot .07:28
Fdotok no pb07:28
DaisyI believe katomo and amotoki can share with us their experiences about glossary.07:29
DaisyLet's leave it in the public discussion.07:29
Daisyso the topc07:29
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Daisyactually, when I put this in the agenda, I was thinking to find more people helping us develop web pages, or the Jenkins scripts, for example.07:29
Daisynow we have amotoki and katomo who voluteer to help.07:30
Daisyso the question can be changed to: do we need more developers? if we do, how can we enroll them?07:30
Daisymaybe we leave the question there. :))07:31
Fdotwhich kind of help are you looking for exactly ?07:31
Fdotcoding for webpage ? webdesign ?07:32
Daisythe translation tools enhancement.07:32
Daisyand the Jenkins scripts development07:32
fifieldtthere are a bunch of tools that are used to go back and forth between transifex and the code repositories, fdot07:32
DaisyI want somebody can help to resolve the % issue.07:32
Fdotis there a place where are listed all the help you are looking for ?07:33
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Daisyno place at now.07:33
Daisythat's the next topic I'm going to discuss.07:33
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Fdotoh ok  :)07:34
Daisyso we list all the works we want help, and if there are voluteers, they can know what to do.07:34
Daisygood question, Fdot .07:34
fifieldtcool - sounds like an action item07:34
amotokiare there any information how i18n infra job works?07:34
Daisyno till now.07:34
amotokisuch information helps us to start such works I believe.07:34
Daisyamotoki: another good question.07:34
Fdot+1 amotoki :)07:35
amotokiat first, a list of pointers is enough. Where is the scripts or something.07:35
Daisy#action Daisy to describe the i18n infra job in the wiki.07:36
Daisyplease continue, amotoki .07:36
amotokino more from me now.07:36
Daisyhow about others?07:36
fifieldtI'm happy with more description - do we also need to #action  list all the works we want help for on the wiki?07:37
Daisyok. Then we move to next topic. Hope can answer Fdot 's question and figure out action item.07:37
Daisy#topic: How to track issues and blueprints07:37
*** openstack changes topic to ": How to track issues and blueprints (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"07:37
akira___How about testing site to confirm new/updated web pages?07:38
DaisyWe surely need a place to list all the issues and tasks, so that when people want to help, they can know how to start.07:38
fifieldtakira__: docs team is working on this - they have a staging server and just need some help to get it going07:38
akira___good. thanks.07:39
DaisyDo we also want to use Lanchpad to do it?07:39
fifieldtI'm OK with launchpad07:39
fifieldtthen we can refer to other projects as well using the bug linking feature ....07:39
DaisyI created one.07:40
DaisyThe bugs can be used to track the issues we want to resolve.07:40
DaisyThe blueprints can be used to track the items we want to work on.07:40
Daisybut how to track the "translation task"?07:40
fifieldtwe should ask someone to make this a sub-project of the global "openstack" project07:40
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Daisydo you know who can help to do that, fifieldt ?07:40
fifieldt#openstack-infra IIRC07:41
fifieldtdoes transifex do a good job at tracking progress? or perhaps we recommend a method like the japanese team's wiki page07:41
DaisyFor example, fifieldt has asked me to help him to translate a registration form for HongKong summit.07:41
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Daisythat kind of tasks may not need to track through Transifex.07:42
FdotIn france we are going to use :
Fdotfor coordinate our community07:42
fifieldtso maybe each team does their own tracking, and updates overall status at this meeting?07:42
fifieldtteam being language team in this sense07:42
DaisyFdot: is it a wiki?07:43
FdotIt is a wordpress07:43
DaisyTake a look at:
DaisyThis is how Japanese team is tracking the translation of operation guide.07:44
Fdotthat's amazing07:44
Fdotgood jo07:44
Fdotgood job07:44
Fdotand that's a good idea07:45
Fdotwe are going to study what you have done07:45
Daisyamotoki: can you explain what is for?07:45
fifieldtperhaps in a ML post or a wiki article - for future reference07:45
amotokiit is maintained by japan openstack users group.07:45
DaisyIs it a fork of openstack localized in Japanese?07:45
DaisyI see there are many openstack projects there.07:46
* fifieldt has to leave in ~15mins :|07:46
amotokino. at now just for translation works07:46
amotokibut sometimes we need to manage local versions to track translations.07:46
Daisyis it easy to use? How to edit the wiki page in github?07:46
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amotokicreate an github account, join the team.07:47
DaisyI mean, how do you edit
Daisydoes people need to check out, edit and then check in?07:47
amotokiwe can edit this page in the same way.07:48
DaisyI think wiki page may be a good way to track the translation task. We need to find a single way and used by all openstack translation teams.07:48
fifieldtsee also:
Daisyso it's easy to edit?07:48
amotokiyes. it is just a wiki.07:49
Daisyamotoki: can you team members edit the progress checking page in the internet browser?07:49
DaisyI mean, just like edit a wiki page?07:49
amotokigithub is a kind of developement infra. we can use wiki, git repository, issue tracking and so on.07:49
DaisyThen we create a project in github, and put the translation work items there.07:50
DaisyUnder each translation work items, each translation team have a file to describe the work assignment and progress.07:50
DaisyIs that good?07:50
Daisyas a conclusion07:51
amotokiI think it works.07:51
Daisywe use bugs and blueprints in lanchpad to track the translation tool related works we want to do.07:51
Daisywe use a project in github to track the translation work items.07:52
Daisyso next topic07:52
Daisy#topic How to track contributors07:52
*** openstack changes topic to "How to track contributors (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"07:52
DaisyI think the previous topic can answer part of this question.07:52
amotoki FYI neutron team has a page like this:
amotokithsi page describe what type of contributions the community wants.07:53
Daisyso how about the translators who has contributed?07:53
Daisywho are familiar with Transifex API?07:53
Daisymaybe I think Transifex API can help.07:53
DaisyI have to be quick, because fifieldt is going to leave.07:53
Daisyamotoki: are you familiar with Transifex API?07:54
Daisymaybe API can help us to get all the translators who has contributed.07:54
amotokinot so much. i just use tx tools.07:54
Daisy#action Daisy to take a look at Transifex API to see if it's able to get the translators information.07:54
Daisyso next topic.07:54
Daisy#topic Translation of UI into Chinese and other languages07:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Translation of UI into Chinese and other languages (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"07:55
Daisyfifieldt: do you want to give an explaination?07:55
fifieldtWe have had several requests for in other languages.07:55
fifieldtIt turns out this is doable - the biggest effort is changing the search index algorithm so it works for non-English languages. This effort was successfully done for Chinese.07:55
fifieldtHowever, the UI for the site - which is powered by a piece of software called AskBot, does not have full translation yet.07:55
fifieldtyou can see the staging site here:
fifieldtand note the various English UI elements07:55
fifieldtaskbot actually uses transifex to manage their translations too07:56
fifieldtwith a relatively high degree of completeness07:56
fifieldtso, to get in other languages, perhaps we need to help upstream there to translate the parts of the UI we need07:56
fifieldt</end of summary>07:56
DaisyI think, Chinese translation team can do the Chinese translation.07:57
Daisydo you need other language?07:57
fifieldtujuc, I believe  the korean group has also requested it07:57
akira___motoki-san, how about it for japanese?07:58
amotokii am not sure the situation.07:58
fifieldtalso, Fdot, is localized useful for the french group?07:58
* Fdot is cheking ask.openstack.org07:59
jpichI think there was interest from the Spanish folks as well07:59
fifieldtoh, cool jpich07:59
amotokiakira___:  let's ask to the japanese ml after the meeting. someone may know it (e.g. itoh-san)07:59
Fdotyes it could be interesting07:59
Daisyso fifieldt I'm going to start a wiki page of all the tasks requested by community. and I will set this request as the first one.07:59
fifieldtDaisy, perhaps as bugs, or blueprints as well? :)08:00
FdotTranslation is here : ?08:00
fifieldtyes, Fdot08:00
fifieldtfrench is mostly complete :)08:00
Fdot86% for french08:00
Fdotit is going to be fast :)08:00
fifieldtbut keep in mind that not every UI element is necessary, perhaps :)08:00
Daisyyet I will set it's medium priority, if we have high priorty work to do, such as catching the realse of Havana, we will do the requested work from community later.08:01
FdotI have send a request for joining the french translation team08:01
DaisyOf course we don't need to catch the relase of havana now. But when we start this work, there may be other questions coming from other people.08:01
* Fdot is brb in 5 minutes08:01
fifieldtI have to go to my meeting08:02
Daisyok, fifieldt08:02
fifieldtfor the glossary section talk08:02
fifieldtnote that it is in openstack-manuals repo08:02
fifieldtand at or something08:02
Daisy#topic Open discussion08:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"08:02
DaisyFdot has a question about glossary.08:02
Daisyamotoki: do your team have listed any glossary during your translation?08:03
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amotokiwe reviewed the glossary in ops-guide and use it as a master.08:04
amotokibut there are still many discussions....08:04
Daisyok. can you give me the link of golssary in ops-guide?08:05
DaisyFdot: are you still there?08:05
DaisyIn your mind, you think the glossary in the wiki page are helpful?08:05
DaisyTime is up.08:06
Daisyso action08:06
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amotokione master glossary is helpful.08:06
Fdot_I am back sorry :/08:06
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Daisycan we merge these three all together?08:06
DaisyHi, Fdot_08:06
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DaisyThere are three glossary08:06
Daisyany other glossary?08:07
DaisyDo you think these glossary are helpful ?08:07
Fdotthere is one into transifex08:07
DaisyIf so, we can merge them and load into Tansifex.08:07
DaisyWhich one?08:07
Fdotinto the manual part08:08
DaisyWhich one is the one in Transifex.08:08
* Fdot is cheking the url08:08
Fdot#url :
Fdotthis one is not very helpful08:08
Daisy#action Daisy to create wiki page and github project to track the translation tasks.08:09
Fdotwith the french community we would be very interested to merge all the glossary into
Fdotand to open the translation08:09
DaisyI agree.08:10
DaisyHow do you think, amotoki ?08:10
amotokisounds nice.08:10
Fdotwe can help for copying and pasting the glossray from the wiki08:10
FdotI have already the 3rst ;)08:10
amotokiin this case, we need to remove glossary from other manuals.08:10
amotokimanuals on Transifex.08:11
Daisydo we have other glossary from other manuals?08:11
DaisyI think there is only 1 glossary in Transifex.08:11
Daisyare there?08:11
Daisyor there are several glossary for different resources?08:11
amotokiyes. 1 on Transifex.08:11
DaisyI think there is 1.08:11
ujuc1 on ~08:11
DaisyFdot: can you help to merge these three glossary and import to Transifex?08:12
Fdotyes no pb08:12
FdotI have manpower for doing this ;)08:12
DaisyI don't know if there is a way to import from Excel.08:12
Fdot#action is going to help for merging glossary and import them into transifex08:12
Daisythanks, Fdot08:12
Daisyok. any other topics?08:12
Daisyquestions? problems?08:13
Fdotlet's copy and past it is going to be faster ;)08:13
DaisySorry it's over run.08:13
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DaisySorry the meeting is over run.08:13
DaisyIt's very nice that nobody is waiting for us and eager to start their meetings. :))08:13
Daisyif no, I will close it.08:13
DaisyThank you all.08:13
DaisyIt's a very nice discussion.08:14
DaisyI will write the bi-weekly report to the community.08:14
amotokithanks all.08:14
katomoThanks all.08:14
Fdotthanks all :) \o/08:14
ujucthanks all~~08:14
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings ||"08:14
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 11 08:14:31 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)08:14
openstackMinutes (text):
amotokiDaisy: it would be great if we have an agenda on Wiki before the meeting.08:14
DaisyI believe we have.08:14
Daisyand you can add the items you want.08:14
DaisyLet me find the link.08:14
DaisyYou can edit the wiki page and add the things you want to discuss.08:15
amotokithanks. i missed this page.08:15
amotokiDaisy: i am afraid i won't enough time for translations. H2 release is close and we need to review patches as neutron-core and horizon-core.08:16
Daisydo you have other people who can help?08:17
amotokiDaisy: i believe japanese community including katomo and akira___ will help me.08:18
amotokii will do it as possible as i can.08:18
Daisyactually, I think, translation team should be not busy during the development, but will be very very very busy at the relase time.08:18
Daisyamotoki: Thank you very much.08:18
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akira___motoki-san, let's share your tasks.08:19
katomoamotoki: sure08:19
Daisyamotoki: you have done a very good work amotoki .08:19
amotokithanks, at this moment i have no much tasks about i18n.08:19
amotokiLet's complete ja trans!08:20
Daisyamotoki: will you join the i18n meeting in the future?08:20
amotokiDaisy: sure.08:20
Daisyamotoki: great ! I think I need your suggestions very much.08:21
Daisyamotoki: our team is still building, there are a lot of discussions we need to have and a lot of infra we need to set up.08:21
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Daisyamotoki: if you are busy, you may put the translation in low priority. It's ok. But I hope you can continue to give me good suggestions during this time.08:22
amotokiDaisy: this meeting is very valuable and i'll continue to join.08:22
Daisyamotoki: Thank you.08:22
amotokibye everyone!08:23
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akira___thanks. bye!08:23
Daisybye !08:24
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Daisyhave a nice day.08:24
FdotHave a nice day :)08:24
FdotA bientôt :)08:24
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jd__#startmeeting ceilometer15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 11 15:00:52 2013 UTC.  The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
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jd__hi there15:01
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jd__#topic action from previous meeting: jd__ Write a terminology page in the documentation15:03
*** openstack changes topic to "action from previous meeting: jd__ Write a terminology page in the documentation (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:03
jd__I discovered we had a glossary already, so I've updated it15:03
jd__new version is online at
nealphthat's a good lesson to all...don't underestimate the power of the search. :)15:04
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jd__that's all for this15:04
jd__#topic Deprecate the "counter" term?15:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Deprecate the "counter" term? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:04
jd__IIRC I'm the one who wrote that while working on the glossary15:04
jd__we use the counter term in a few place, especially in the source code, but it doesn't match anything really15:05
jd__we build Counter and store them as Samples… in a Meter table15:05
jd__so my idea would be step #1 let's drop this term from our source15:05
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dhellmannreplace with sample?15:05
jd__dhellmann: yes15:05
eglynnyeah counter and sample are just too close in meaning15:05
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eglynnso +1 on that15:05
gordc"we build Counter and store them as Samples… in a Meter table" seems easy enough to understand :)15:05
dhellmannwe'll have to figure out how to rename a collection in mongo, but that shouldn't be too much trouble15:06
* jd__ gags gordc 15:06
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xingzhouemm, can keep consistent with code if use sample15:06
jd__dhellmann: eventually, I think we should start by targetting ceilometer.counter.* as a good first step15:06
eglynndhellmann: mongo equivalent of a sqlalchemy-migrate migration script15:07
jd__the API has some problem wrt this too15:07
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dhellmanneglynn: yes, I just meant we need to work out how to actually make the change in mongo, but that can come after we have our code changed as jd__ points out15:07
dhellmannI thought asalkeld got rid of counter in the v2 api?15:07
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llu-laptopI only saw get_samples in v2 api15:08
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eglynndhellmann: k, if it's considered likely to be a tractable problem to manage the migration15:08
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gordcdhellmann, i think when you query, it's still 'counter_name'...15:08
jd__dhellmann: you hoped so, but the fields are still named counter_name in the samples returned by /meters15:08
* jd__ puked15:09
nealphgordc: concur.15:09
jd__but well we can't break the API (for now) so let's go step by step on this15:09
dhellmannah, because we deliver data right from the schema15:09
dhellmannoh well15:09
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dhellmannyeah, let's clean up the code now and the schema and api during icehouse15:10
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gordcdhellmann,  +115:10
llu-laptopdhellmann, +1\15:10
jd__#agreed let's clean the code now removing counter when we can and clean the API during icehouse15:11
jd__#topic Review Havana-2 milestone15:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Havana-2 milestone (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:11
eglynnI was hoping to get patches proposed for alarm-service-partitioner tomorrow15:11
eglynnbut burned far too much time sheparding unit-transformer patches15:11
eglynna likely h2 miss at this stage :(15:11
eglynnbut should land soon after ...15:12
dhellmannwe lost a lot of time this week to the oslo.config installation issue15:12
jd__that and we really miss reviews I think15:12
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jd__but life is life.15:12
eglynndeclare tomorrow a review day?15:13
dhellmannyes, I'm going to spend as much time today as I can on reviews, too15:13
dhellmannI need to rebase my changes, apparently :-)15:13
jd__eglynn: as you wish. every day is a review day for me for a few months now…15:13
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jd__I'm pretty sure we can fit most of the bp in h2 but we have to just focus on this these next days15:14
gordcare we setting a cutoff date for h2 items?15:14
jd__dhellmann: maybe should be moved to h3 OTOH?15:14
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1178845 in ceilometer "API server should not create a new database handle on each request" [Medium,Confirmed]15:14
* dhellmann looks15:15
jd__dhellmann: also, remove yourself from assignee maybe if you don't think you'll handle it soon15:16
dhellmannyes, let's move that15:16
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dhellmannand unassigned15:16
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jd__I'll move to h3 too15:18
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jd__and probably others low priority items soon15:18
gordcjd__, +1 that is going to be beast to review by h2.15:19
jd__#topic Tempest tests15:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Tempest tests (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:19
jd__#vote yes15:19
sileht#vote yes15:19
dhellmannso, tempest tests came up in the -infra room the other day15:19
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dhellmannI forget who was asking, but they wanted to know if we were going to add them :-)15:20
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dhellmannsdague suggested wrapping the other existing tests15:20
dhellmannand mordred suggested using a specific feature of testtools to do that15:20
* dhellmann looks for link15:20
jd__I think what we really need is a volunteer to do the job at this point15:21
dhellmannbah, mordred beat me to it :-)15:21
jd__and to at least start so followers can program by imitation15:21
* dhellmann is already overcommitted for this release15:22
nealphis there a bug/feature submitted for this yet?15:23
jd__nealph: only good intentions and
* nealph should take his own advice about searching15:24
jd__which is partially done since we're in the devstack-gate now15:24
dhellmannjd__: sorry to backtrack, but I'd like to move the low priority bp pipeline-configuration-cleanup to h3, if that's ok15:24
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jd__dhellmann: sure15:24
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jd__ultimately we should open a bp on I guess15:25
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jd__dhellmann: if you don't have time to tackle your stuff, ping me at some point I'll try to jump in15:25
dhellmannjd__: I expect to get some more time between h2 and h3, but thanks15:26
jd__dhellmann: we all hope so ;)15:26
jd__any volunteer to lead the Tempest effort?15:26
nealphjd_: I'll look at that a little closer and see what I can do. No promises at this point. :-)15:26
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jd__nealph: do you want to store an #action or something so we can track this during the next meetings?15:27
nealphthat'll keep me honest...sure.15:28
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nealph#action nealph to follow up on tempest qa efforts15:29
jd__good! thanks nealph!15:29
jd__#topic Release python-ceilometerclient?15:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:30
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jd__do we need that?15:30
eglynnis there anything we need?15:30
jd__not from my PoV15:30
eglynnlets wait for to land so15:30
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jd__fair enough15:31
jd__#topic Open discussion15:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:31
litong@jd__, since this open discussion. I would like to bring the File Publisher comments here.15:32
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litongI used RotatingFileHandler to make sure that the file won't grow so big and out of control.15:32
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litongthat was the reason to have it using rotatingFile vs, plain log file.15:33
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jd__litong: there's bigger problem in your code AFAIU at this point15:33
litonglike what?15:33
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jd__litong: like the inability to have different files  for different pipelines (if I understood correctly)15:33
jd__litong: about rotating, I'm happy to have a rotating file, but I want the possibility to not have one too15:34
litonghmmm. making even that configurable?15:34
litongthe different pipeline use, for that one, need to get different logger.15:35
jd__litong: yeah, my point, with it used by default with max_size and backup set to None15:35
jd__litong: indeed15:35
litong@jd__, oh, ok, so if no setting for these two, then use plain log.15:35
jd__I wrote all that in the review a few minutes earlier if you didn't see :)15:35
jd__litong: yes :)15:35
litongok. that will be fine.15:35
boris-42Hi guys=)15:36
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eglynnhey boris-4215:36
litongany other stuff want to be in this one?15:36
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litong@jd__, the IIUC comment, I do not think I follow what you were saying.15:37
litongfile:///tmp/foobar that should be the string in the pipeline .15:37
boris-42oh it is opendisucssion15:38
jd__litong: if you use multiple pipeline with different file:/// your code will only use one file:///15:38
jd__boris-42: do you want to flood us? :)15:38
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litongso that was the comment for multiple pipeline uses?15:38
boris-42I could give some feedbac15:38
jd__litong: yes15:38
litongthe solution is to get a logger for each pipeline.15:39
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boris-42jd__ are you interested?)15:39
litongwell each instances of the publisher I assume.15:39
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jd__litong: yeah, but I think you can instanciate logger and keep them locally in the class, you are not forced to use the system loggers globally registered15:39
jd__boris-42: always, feedback on what?15:40
litong@jd__, right. ok. thanks for clarifing it.15:40
boris-42jd__ we have started work around test scenarios and doing first step around migration to sqlalchemy alembic15:40
litongthanks for reviewing it.15:40
boris-42jd_ here is one patch about test scenarios
boris-42jd__ and we started to sync db Models to schema that is created by Migrations15:41
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boris-42jd__ then we will fix some bugs in current schema15:42
jd__sounds like a good plan :)15:42
jd__I'll try to review this today15:42
boris-42jd__ And I think that best solution for switching to alembic will be replace part by part of migrations15:42
boris-42old migrations15:42
boris-42so replace in place15:43
boris-42instead of creating some new and then switching15:43
boris-42new queue15:43
boris-42jd__ what do you think about it ^15:43
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jd__if we can do this step by step that works for me I guess15:44
boris-42jd__ we are investigating this question15:45
jd__ok cool15:45
boris-42jd__ so we are searching for the best solution to do it step by step15:45
boris-42jd__ because it will be impossible in one step to replace all migrations for example in nova=)15:45
boris-42jd__ so we have to find the right way to do it step by step=)15:46
boris-42jd__ also we would like to implement some new features15:46
boris-42jd__ to use Agent not only on compute_node but also inside the VMs15:46
boris-42jd__ but I couldn't give you a some drafts of plan because we are still investigating this thing15:47
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boris-42jd__ are you interested in such things, just theoretically?)15:47
jd__boris-42: probably15:48
jd__we have a mechanism so user can publish their own samples via the API15:48
boris-42jd__ ok then we will work around paper to have something for discussion15:48
jd__boris-42: ack, feel free to build a blueprint or enhance an existing one15:49
boris-42jd__ thanks15:49
gordcquick note: we got multiple patches for updating keystoneclient version requirements, can we agree on one? and
jd__then you can bring such things on the meeting's agenda15:49
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jd__gordc: too late I think won15:49
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gordcjd__, darn, saved that msg too long.lol15:50
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gordcnm, carry on.15:50
jd__dhellmann: also should be approved quickly I guess if you've a minute15:50
jd__gordc: haha15:50
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gordc+1, 36465 patch works for me.15:51
jd__thanks dhellmann15:51
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jd__wrapping up in a minute now if there's nothing left15:51
terriyuoh, I'm the intern that's hanging around, in case anyone is wondering15:52
terriyulet me know if I screw anything up15:52
eglynnterriyu: hi!15:52
jd__terriyu: :)15:52
terriyujd__ is my mentor.  I think my official internship runs through September 2315:52
dhellmannhi, terriyu15:52
terriyuIt's been fun so far and I look forward to working with all of you15:53
nealphwelcome, terriyu!15:53
terriyuI studied physics for a long time, so part of my interest in OpenStack is how it can be used for science15:54
terriyuping me if you'd like to talk about that :)15:54
terriyuor anything else :)15:55
llu-laptopterriyu: welcome15:55
eglynnterriyu: if you can see any specific opportunities to apply your analytical background to ceilo, that would be welcome!15:55
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jd__time to wrap up guys15:59
jd__see you on -metering!15:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings ||"15:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 11 15:59:32 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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jd__eglynn: I'm sure we'll need terriyu to meter neutron! :-)16:00
terriyuoh ok :)16:01
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nealphterriyu: your first task is to develop a decoder ring for all the name changes going on in the projects.16:01
nealphtrove, neutron, ironic.16:01
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nealphaaaand go!16:02
terriyunealph: haha16:02
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sdaguehey folks, who's here for the meeting?17:03
mtreinishI am17:03
mlavalleI am17:03
mkodererI am17:03
sdague#startmeeting qa17:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 11 17:03:58 2013 UTC.  The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:04
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sdagueok, lets get rolling with the agenda17:04
dwalleckAnd me17:04
sdague#topic QA Program Business17:04
*** openstack changes topic to "QA Program Business (Meeting topic: qa)"17:04
sdagueso QA is now an official program, which means we need a PTL and a program description17:05
sdagueI believe I'm still the only PTL nominee as of this meeting, so is there any objection to closing the nominations?17:05
mtreinishsdague: nope, congrats17:06
dwallecknope, sounds like a good idea to me17:06
mlavallesdague: congrats Mr. PTL17:06
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sdagueok, thanks :)17:06
afazekassdague: congrats17:06
sdagueok, topic 2 in QA17:06
sdague#info sdague officially now QA PTL17:07
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sdagueok, next topic that is17:07
sdague#topic QA Program Description17:07
*** openstack changes topic to "QA Program Description (Meeting topic: qa)"17:07
sdagueI think we've got a pretty fruitful email thread going on on this one17:07
sdagueso I'd mostly like to just highlight that, and ask people to participate in it if they have other ideas17:07
sdagueI'll try to assimilate it all tomorrow into a mission statement we can take forward to the TC17:08
sdagueand get another round of feedback on it17:08
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mtreinishsdague: ok, sounds good to me17:08
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sdagueif you haven't been on the ML thread it's here -
afazekassdague: IMHO tools should be generally useabel both for upstream and downstream usage17:09
sdagueafazekas: ok, you want to get back on the thread there?17:09
sdagueI think that's the right place to drive the discussion17:09
sdagueas it lets everyone participate17:09
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afazekassdague: yes17:10
sdaguecool, great17:10
dwalleckafazekas: Agreed. A tool is just a tool. It should be flexible enough to use anywhere17:10
sdagueok, so lets get to Blueprints17:10
sdague#topic Blueprints17:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)"17:11
mtreinishsdague: when is the h2 deadline?17:12
sdaguecan people provide #info updates to blueprints they are working17:12
sdagueh2 is a week from now17:12
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sdague#info h2 happens July 1817:12
sdaguelet's at least ping folks on the high and up ones17:13
sdaguemtreinish: how's testr looking?17:13
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mtreinishsdague: so I've respun the testrepository patch based on lifeless's review17:13
sdagueafazekas: how's the leak detection looking?17:13
afazekasI have small POC code , where I can add new detecors/monitors by 5-8 lines, I before I am starting puppuliation it with new detectors, I would like to knw is the basic frame ok or not17:13
mtreinishit's pending for review:
mtreinishI also have a tempest patch using that approach to move over and not gating tox jobs to use testr --parallel pending17:14
sdagueafazekas: ok, I'll take a look this afternoon on the patch17:14
mtreinishI can push it as WIP but it won't work unless you patch testr with those commits17:14
sdague#info review requested on afazekas' leak detector patch
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sdague#info testr work awaiting review on testr code change -
sdaguemtreinish: yeh the WIP might be nice for folks to just see17:15
afazekasmtreinish: can we add temporary testr fork to tempest, until your patch not merged ?17:15
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mtreinishafazekas: I guess we could, but I'm reluctant to do that if lifeless comes back with more changes it'll just diverge more when I make the changes17:16
sdagueafazekas: I think we should avoid that, as we'll be doing dual maintenance until testr gets the features17:16
mtreinishsdague: ok, I'll push it out after the meeting17:16
sdagueadalbas: you have an update on the grenade enablement in the gate?17:16
sdagueI think that's the last high priority blueprint that's up there that we've got folks around for17:17
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sdagueok, well lets move on to reviews17:18
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sdague#topic Critical Reviews17:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:18
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sdagueok, critical reviews people want to get more eyes on?17:19
sdagueafazekas: ok, I'll relook at that17:20
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sdagueas I'm the only one blocking it17:20
afazekasI do not really see why we need this kind of tests in tempest17:20
afazekassdague: ok, thx17:20
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sdagueok, I'm openning up tabs to go take a look post meeting17:21
sdagueany other critical reviews?17:21
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dwalleckIs this supposed to be some sort of state-machine like verification?17:22
afazekasThe real heat scenario tests needs a lot of time, how we will be able to handle it17:22
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afazekasProbably the same will be true for the ceilometer tests17:22
sdagueafazekas: so we were actually discussing heat and ceilo in -infra yesterday17:23
sdagueI think we're going to try to handle ceilo by decorators on existing tests, dhellmann_ liked the idea, and was going to propose something17:23
sdaguefor heat, I think we might want to make a separate heat gate job. But we'll see.17:24
sdagueI guess a big part of landing those heat tests is if the testr patch is accepted and we can get that in within a week17:24
sdagueif so we can just hold the heat patch until it's ready17:24
sdagueotherwise we should come up with an alternative that lets them be in the gate17:25
afazekasok, BTW: I tried to but together what I know about the heat tests .. : , I would like confirm it with heat devs17:25
sdagueafazekas: great17:25
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sdague#link heat test information17:25
sdagueok, any other reviews?17:25
sdague#topic Stress Tests in CI17:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Stress Tests in CI (Meeting topic: qa)"17:26
sdaguewas this a dkranz thing? or a jog0-away thing?17:26
sdaguethat's not promissing that neither are around, maybe we skip and see if jog0-away or someone else pops back up in a bit17:27
afazekasmkoderer: ^^^17:27
mtreinishsdague: dunno, but I setup a periodic for the stress tests last week17:27
mtreinishthere is a tox job that gets used for it so if there are new stress tests just add them to the tox job17:28
sdaguemkoderer: is that your thing?17:28
mkodererno it's not17:28
sdaguewhich I also see at the end of the agenda17:28
sdagueok, well why don't we take your topic now too, as it seems like it's related17:28
mkodererI know that dkranz wanted to do something with CI and stress tests17:28
mkodereryes sure17:28
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sdaguemkoderer: or should we just take it to the mailing list because dkranz isn't around, and we want to get him in on it as well?17:29
afazekasIMHO we should add more stress periodic jobs in the future..17:29
hemnaso a while back we wrote a cinder stress test to bang on our 3par drivers.  we recently published it on github17:29
afazekasAs I remember an another stress test was proposed on the mailing list17:29
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sdagueyeh, I really think like we've got the proliferation of different but similar approaches17:29
hemnawe've been running it to find issues w/ our drivers and cinder and nova17:29
mkoderersdague: I spoke to dkranz we can discuss it here now17:30
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sdaguemkoderer: go for it17:30
afazekasIMHO, nowadays the openstack has too many race issue, so we should put more effort on the stress testing ..17:30
mkodererso we are planning a stress test for the new backup function in cinder17:30
mkodererso question .. .what is the right tool? ;)17:31
sdaguehemna: so how similar, or different is it from the stress stuff in tempest today?17:31
mkodererI think tempest stress test looks quite good17:31
hemnaI haven't seen the tempest stress stuff yet17:31
sdaguehemna: can you take a look?17:31
mkodererso I already put a new test for review17:31
sdagueit would be nice if we could figure out a way to have everyone playing in one stress test tree17:32
hemnahere is our stress tool FWIW :
hemnasdague, +117:32
mtreinishhemna: they're here:
sdagueso we don't duplicate infrastructure17:32
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afazekasthe tempest test stuff is simpler, but configurable. The tool  I saw on the ML was more complex, but less flexible17:32
hemnamtreinish, thanks17:32
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afazekasI see good values in both tool17:32
sdagueright, I guess are they resolvable to meet everyone's needs?17:32
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sdaguebecause maintaining 2+ tools for this is silly17:32
sdagueif we can avoid it17:33
afazekassdague: It would't be an easy job17:33
hemnawe wrote ours just as a quick and dirty tool to get the job done, and then we found it useful for finding issues17:33
sdaguehemna, mkoderer: I guess can I ask you two to get together over the next week and figure out if we could merge these efforts in some way?17:33
afazekaswe would need to increase the complexity17:33
hemnaI'd be willing to work on a stress tool, as it has great benefit for us as well as the community as a whole17:33
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adalbassdague, sorry, just joined now.17:34
mkoderersdague: yes sure!17:34
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sdagueafazekas: well we could also spin the stress directory out of tempest if it would be dragging too much complexity there17:34
sdagueas a program we don't need to be just one git tree17:34
sdagueand we'll already be 2 really soon, grenade is going to fall under this program, dtroyer and I just need to work out a groups thing in gerrit17:34
afazekas:), It will not be a too big difference17:35
adalbasi have an update on grenade job in the gate, sdague17:35
sdagueadalbas: ok, lets come back around in a minute on that17:35
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sdaguehemna: ok, you up for taking some time this week with mkoderer to figure out if things could merge together?17:35
sdagueI don't want to volunteer folks for things unless they have the time :)17:36
hemnaso the tempest test, is there a way to focus the testing on one component?  say I want to stress cinder only17:36
afazekasSo the tempest stress tool can similar stress, but in different way.17:36
hemnaor does it run against the entire OS suite ?17:36
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hemnasdague, yah I'll take a look at the tempest stress tool and see if it can do what my tool does17:36
sdaguehemna: cool, thanks17:37
mkodererhemna: currently there are just 2 test inside17:37
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afazekashemna: the basic concept of  the tempest stress tool you can define worker threads with peridic stress job17:37
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afazekasfor cinder it would be great if it would read the cinder's log file as well17:37
hemnaI would suppose there would be 'plugins' for each OS component17:37
sdague#todo hemna and mkoderer to look at the possibility of making and be able to become one approach17:37
hemnaand possibly parameterize the run to say...I want to test these OS components only...17:38
sdaguewe'll put this back on the agenda for next week to check in on what people found17:38
hemnasdague, ok17:38
dwalleckI'd definitely like to see some more flexibility in stress testing. What I'm interested in is combinations/randomization of load. That's when things get interesting17:38
sdague#todo revisit stress testing next week17:38
hemnaI don't see why it can't meet everyone's needs in 1 tool/codebase17:38
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sdaguehemna: we should be able to poke just one component, I think that should be a design point17:38
hemnaI've found race conditions in my FibreChannel code in Nova due to my tool.  been very helpful17:38
hemnasdague, yah I agree.17:39
sdagueok, great17:39
sdagueok, lets move onto the last topic then17:39
sdague#topic Full Open Stack networking gate job17:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Full Open Stack networking gate job (Meeting topic: qa)"17:39
sdagueanyone around from neutron, or anyone working on that about?17:39
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sdagueyou know I think I'll need to start asking folks to put their names next to agenda items :)17:40
afazekasI added this topic to the agenda17:40
sdagueok, cool17:40
sdagueafazekas: the floor is yours17:40
afazekasWhat is missing to have a full neutron voting gate job ?17:40
afazekasAs I see tens of test cases are failing for ~7 reason17:41
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sdaguethe biggest issue is API issues where neutron causes different error codes when called via nova17:41
nati_uenohi are you talking about gating issues now?17:41
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sdaguenati_ueno: no, though I was about to bring that up17:41
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afazekasCan we  skip those with bug until they are fixed ?17:42
sdaguebecause we're about to be non voting on neutron at all17:42
nati_uenosdague: gotcha17:42
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sdagueafazekas: the problem is no one is working to fix them17:42
mlavallesdague, afazekas: i've been working on fixing some of those issues17:42
sdagueok, sorry :)17:42
mlavallein fact, I have a review pending17:42
afazekasDo we track / group those issues in anyway ?17:42
mlavallethat is aimed at one of those issues17:43
afazekasI reported one today ..17:43
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sdaguemlavalle: great17:43
mlavallesdague: there is also Jordan Pittier working on this17:43
sdague#info please review -
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mlavallesdague; I will ping him to see what progress he has achieved17:44
mlavalleon the isues17:44
mlavallehe is working on17:44
sdaguemlavalle: yes, jordan seemed to get blocked recently though, as he wend back down the path of special casing tempest, which I really don't agree with17:44
sdaguenova v2 api can't return different values with neutron in the backend if we want to provide a seemless migration path for people17:44
mlavallesdague: I will review the email thread as see how can I help17:44
sdaguemlavalle: cool, thanks17:44
afazekasIMHO we should have an etherpad or wikipage or blueprint  or something, where we track  the full neutron gate blocker issues17:45
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mlavalleafazekas: We already have one ether pad. I will resend it to the ML17:46
afazekasmlavalle: cool, thank you17:46
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sdaguemlavalle: great, do we have a blueprint for this?17:46
mlavallesdague: no, I've been working off of the etherpad17:47
sdagueso can you make a blueprint as well17:47
sdaguelink it to the etherpad17:47
mlavallesdague: sure17:47
sdaguebut we can track it as a high priority item to revisit each week17:47
afazekascool :)17:47
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mlavallesdague; please add it as a todo to this meetings log17:48
sdagueso one other thing... we're actually about to turn off voting on neutron entirely17:48
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sdague#todo mlavalle create a blueprint for full neutron gate tests17:48
sdaguebecause there is a neutron flakey bug with at least 124 rechecks on it17:49
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1194026 in neutron "check_public_network_connectivity fails with timeout" [Critical,Confirmed]17:49
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sdaguenati_ueno: you were poking at this last night, any updates on it?17:49
afazekassdague: that neuron recheck bug is very annoying, may be enough to skip just that one17:49
nati_uenosorry, no. I'm writing stress code for floating ip17:49
sdagueafazekas: so the concern was that the neutron team couldn't reproduce locally17:50
sdaguewhich means if we skip it in the gate, it's impossible to debug17:50
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sdagueso instead the approach was to make neutron non voting17:50
sdaguenati_ueno: ok, no problem, someone said you were working on it earlier17:50
afazekassdague: my problem I frequently trigger an another issue when I try to reproduce a race issue .. :(17:50
nati_uenoSorry for inconvenience. Mark and I'm OK for non-vonting now17:50
afazekasBut I will try it17:51
nati_uenoMark and Gary and me is at least working on this issue as a top priority17:51
afazekassdague: BTW:
afazekasI usually using tracers what needs to run from the beginning17:51
sdagueafazekas: right, I think part of the issue is neutron logging doesn't seem very sufficient in the gate, which is making it harder to debug. Might end up needing some enhancements to neutron to make that better to get to problems quick in the gate17:51
afazekasThat is the reasion why that change would be helpfull for me17:52
sdagueafazekas: ok, let me ponder that17:52
sdaguethe reality is, when we hit these kinds of races in nova, we can usually get really close to the issue with just the debug logs17:53
afazekasI have doubts this time tracing just single process is enough, maybe I will need to use sytemtap ..17:53
sdagueso I'd hope we could do the same with neutron17:53
sdagueok, I think we're good there for now17:53
sdague#topic Open Discussion17:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: qa)"17:54
sdagueany other items?17:54
sdaguegoing once17:55
sdaguegoing twice17:55
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sdagueok, thanks for joining everyone, we'll see you on #openstack-qa17:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings ||"17:55
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 11 17:55:53 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:55
openstackMinutes (text):
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 11 18:00:15 2013 UTC.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:00
bdpaynegood morning security group18:00
nicolae__Good evening :-)18:00
bdpaynewe've taken a few weeks off here, and I'm hoping to ramp things up again18:01
bdpayneso lots to discuss today18:01
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bdpaynefirst, who do we have in the meeting?18:01
bdpayneBryan from Nebula here18:01
rlpGood Afternoon18:01
rlpRandy Perryman from Dell18:01
bdpaynehi randy18:02
nicolae__Nicolae, sics18:02
bdpayneok, great18:02
bdpayneI'm sure others will join in as we go along too18:02
bdpayne#topic Annoucements18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Annoucements (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:02
bdpayneFirst, I wanted to make sure that everyone is aware of the mailing list18:03
bdpayneThis is where security related announcements go, along with notifications about OpenStack bugs that need security team review18:03
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bdpaynealso a fine place for security discussion18:04
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bdpayneI'd encourage everyone in OSSG to join that list18:04
bdpayneAlso, Rob put together the initial pieces for a security wiki web page18:04
bdpayneI'd like to build this out to be a nice landing page for people interested in openstack security18:05
bdpayneand then perhaps have a subpage that is full of suggestions for people wanted to get involved in OSSG18:06
bdpaynenicolae__ said he could help with this18:06
bdpayneright? :-)18:06
bdpayne#action nicolae__ to help fill out the wiki pages18:07
nicolae__Right :)18:07
bdpayne#topic Security Guide18:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Security Guide (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:07
bdpayneIf you haven't heard the news yet, the security guide book sprint was a big success18:08
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bdpayneWe'll be getting a pdf and html up there shortly18:08
rlpI just saw this and now to read...18:08
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bdpayneThis was really a huge effort by a great team of people18:08
bdpayneI think it's a great first cut18:09
bdpayneBut there's plenty of places where it can be improved18:09
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bdpayneSo I would encourage others to contribute back to the guide… anything from grammatical edits to new chapters18:09
bdpayne^^ The book is in docbook source and held in that github repo ^^18:09
uvirtbotbdpayne: Error: "^" is not a valid command.18:09
bdpaynesorry about that bot18:09
bdpayneany questions about the book?18:10
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bdpayneok, I'll push ahead18:11
bdpayne#topic Reviewing open security issues18:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Reviewing open security issues (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:11
bdpayneSo there's a lot of code that needs security reviews18:11
bdpayneThe mailing list is a great way to get plugged into this18:12
bdpayneBut I wanted to call to the attention of the group here some specific itema18:12
bdpaynethe APL team (who couldn't make the meeting today) have done a lot of work on Volume encryption18:13
bdpayneand this work is ready for review now18:13
bdpayneunfortunately, they haven't been getting as many eyes as they would like18:13
bdpayneThere's the links18:13
bdpayneI would encourage people to spend some time reviewing those18:14
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bdpayneYou can find other things that need review by checking the security mailing list archives and/or by search the various projects for security tags18:15
bdpaynelist archives are here
bdpaynesecurity tagged items look like:
bdpaynesimilar link for other projects18:15
bdpaynefor example18:16
bdpaynefor OSSG members that want to get involved with code-level contributions, this is a great place to get started18:16
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bdpayneany questions about these?18:17
bdpayneyou guys are quiet today :-)18:17
bdpayneok, pushing forward18:17
bdpayne#topic Ongoing security projects18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Ongoing security projects (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:18
bdpayneThere's a few ongoing projects to mention18:18
bdpayneUnfortunately, the people with knowledge on the current status aren't here today18:18
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bdpayneThere's the volume encryption work that I mentioned above18:19
bdpayneThere's also work on a key manager18:19
malini1Greetings, sorry to join late18:19
bdpaynecontacts for the key manager work include Jerret Raim (Rackspace) and malini118:19
bdpaynenice timing malini1 :-)  care to give an update on the key manager work?18:20
malini1going well, very few bugs left18:20
bdpayneon track for H?18:21
malini1the thing that concerns me more is no reviews of the volume encryption patches18:21
bdpayneneed any review eyes or ??18:21
bdpaynefair… so let's focus resources there18:21
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malini1absolutely need review eyes, those are languishing and they are the proof of the pudding18:21
bdpaynesounds good18:21
malini1there are 3 a-- all by joel C18:22
bdpayneyeah, I've got links above18:22
bdpayneso they will be in the meeting transcripts18:22
bdpayneother thing worth mentioning in ongoing work is something that came out of the book sprint18:23
bdpaynewhile writing the book, the team captured a variety of security shortcomings in openstack18:23
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bdpayneI'll be working with the book sprint team to triage these and figure out how to handle each one18:23
bdpayneThese will end up as a collection of blueprints, bugs, security notes, etc18:24
malini1and a thought on libvirt connection, there is readonly  mode which does not need credentials and one which needs credentials18:24
bdpayneso be watching here for updates on those in the coming weeks18:24
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malini1it can be a pain to prompt and provide, but should this be something that is enforced18:24
bdpaynemalini1 perhaps a worthwhile OSSN?18:24
bdpaynewould you like to work with Rob on that?18:25
malini1a use case of libvirt connection is to obtain stats on cpu usage18:25
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bdpayne#action malini1 to work with Rob on OSSN for libvirt authentication best practices18:26
bdpayne#action bdpayne to work with book sprint team to push out security issues identified during the sprint18:27
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bdpayne#topic Open Discussion18:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:27
bdpaynethat's all I have for today… anything else that people would like to discuss?18:27
malini1BTW -- there is a pitch for geo tagging in NIST .. something to watch18:27
malini1one second18:27
malini1it is all fluffy right now, nothing implemented18:28
bdpaynewhat's the goal there?18:28
bdpayneto know where the cloud resources are located?18:28
malini1basically folks want to control where their payload runs, where their data is stored to meet18:28
malini1regulation requirements18:28
bdpaynemakes sense18:28
malini1to truely now where machien is located needs GPS (which will not work in a bunker somewhere)18:28
malini1also those GPS co-ordinates have to be mapped to a country18:29
malini1and sub-area (say embassy in a foreign land or in international airspace or waters) which maynot be an issue18:29
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malini1for data center18:29
malini1and all server chips today do not have GPS while phones etc do18:30
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malini1may have to trust admin who deploys machine18:30
bdpayneok, thanks for the pointer18:30
bdpaynethat all we have time for today18:30
malini1to certify where it is located, and sign it18:30
nicolae__There were some research publications on this topic too, don't have the links right now, can send them if interested18:30
malini1please do, thanks18:31
bdpaynesure, perhaps start a thread on the securty mailing list18:31
nicolae__Ok, will do18:31
bdpaynehave a great week everyone18:31
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings ||"18:31
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 11 18:31:41 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:31
openstackMinutes (text):
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dripton#startmeeting DB19:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 11 19:00:03 2013 UTC.  The chair is dripton. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: DB)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'db'19:00
driptonWho's here for the DB meeting?19:00
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rpodolyaka1Hello, guys!19:00
vsergeyevhi All19:00
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driptonIs boris-42 around?19:01
boris-42Hi all19:01
driptonrussellb said he'd come19:01
boris-42vsergeyev hI19:01
dripton#topic sqlalchemy-migrate vs. alembic19:01
*** openstack changes topic to "sqlalchemy-migrate vs. alembic (Meeting topic: DB)"19:01
boris-42vsergeyev pls remove code that is connected with db archiving from our sola utilites19:01
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driptonI don't know if you guys saw the thread on the openstack-dev ML but sqlalchemy-migrate is looking for a new maintainer.  So we have to choose.19:02
boris-42sqlalchemy-migrate is death and it sucks..19:02
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driptonDo we want to maintain it or do we want to switch to Alembic?19:02
russellbso when can we switch?  :-)19:02
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boris-42russellb at the moment we are switching in ceilometer19:02
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russellbneutron, at least, already uses alembic19:02
boris-42russellb there is not so much bugs in migrations and not so much migrations and models19:02
driptonHow many migrations does ceilometer have?19:02
boris-42But we are working on step by step solution19:03
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driptonokay, so the hope is to finish that first and hope it scales to Nova after?19:03
boris-42so that in one moment we have migrations with alembic and sql migate19:03
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boris-42dripton yes we will continue our work in all projects19:03
boris-42cinder, glance, nova19:04
boris-42at least19:04
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boris-42russellb what do you think about switching to alembic after fixing current models and migrations?)19:04
mordredshould we take over sqlalchmey-migrate anyway?19:04
mordredour stable branches will still use it19:05
boris-42mordred I would strongly preferred to do that19:05
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boris-42only old stable branches19:05
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russellbthe issues with models/migrations are separate from which tool we're using right?19:05
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boris-42yes but we are not able to switch until we fix them19:05
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russellbright, so makes sense to keep doing that?19:06
boris-42we should know exactly what our migrations produces19:06
mordredsure. but still, it'll be at least a year before we as a project could possibly not have any needs for sqla-migrate... that seems like too long for it to be abandonware19:06
russellbmordred: that's a good point...19:06
russellbmordred: as much as i hate it19:06
driptonmordred: I agree but I hate to volunteer to maintain code that's 1. bad 2. has lots of open bugs on it 3. not compatible with SQLAlchemy 0.819:06
mordredrussellb: and then, once we stop caring - if someone else wants to care, it's not like we don't have the infrastructure to let them19:06
boris-42mordred it is not enough big reason to shoot your legs..19:07
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mordredwell, we probably need to get it up to sqlalchemy 0.8 - I think 0.8 is kinda inevitable19:07
mordredhow bad is it? /me cringes19:07
driptonthere is allegedly a patch on github that brings it to 0.8, but I haven't tested it.19:07
mordredcool. well, that's a start19:07
boris-42mordred it is f**cking terrible=)19:07
boris-42i hate it=)19:07
driptonIt's ugly but not huge.  So at least it's a small about of ugly.19:08
mordredboris-42: excellent. my favorite kind of terrible code19:08
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driptonI do not want to volunteer to maintain it but if someone else does they have my full support.  :->19:08
mordredI'll work with zigo to get it moved somewhere. if we never patch it, then it's no different than now19:08
mordredbut if we do, then great19:08
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boris-42at moment we would like to write some monkey patches19:09
driptonWhat's wrong with leaving it at  It's been there a long time and there are many bugs there.  Moving it might be bad.19:09
russellbif we're maintaining it, it needs to be in our infrastructure19:09
boris-42dripton mordred sqlalchemy-migrate is bad thing19:09
boris-42bad bad bad very bad thing19:09
russellbboris-42: but we're stuck using it for at least another year19:09
boris-42and there is no communtiy19:09
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russellbthat's reality19:10
driptonif we do that then we should consider moving all those bug reports to launchpad so we don't lose them.19:10
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mordredrussellb: I agree.19:10
mordreddripton: good point19:10
boris-42there is some trick19:10
boris-42we could back port19:10
boris-42all migrations19:10
boris-42if they do the same thing, and I will try to make garantie of that19:11
boris-42we could just replace it all in stable branches19:11
boris-42and use in stable branches Alembic19:11
russellbthat's not going to fly ...19:11
boris-42just one patch set19:11
russellbnobody is going to be ok making such a drastic change to stable branches19:11
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russellbwell, most poeople :-)19:12
russellbobviously you're ok with it, ha19:12
boris-42it could be really good tested19:12
russellbi really don't think that's an option19:12
driptonyeah, we have to keep it alive for grizzly. If we can get to Alembic by havana final we've at least limited our pain.19:12
boris-42on real data step by step19:12
russellbwe don't let *any* new features in stable branches19:12
boris-42it is not *new feature*19:12
russellbif we switched by havana, then it's less than a year until we're no longer using it19:12
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boris-42btw why is it more safe to switch it in havana19:13
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boris-42and it is not safe to switch it in grizzly stable branch?19:13
russellbbecause it's a new release, and that's when we make disruptive changes?19:13
driptonHavana is still in development.  Nobody has production clusters on it yet.19:13
boris-42russellb let me try to describe situation19:13
boris-42russellb you have could that runs grizzly19:14
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boris-42russellb you have done a tons of migrations19:14
boris-42russellb then you are trying to move to havana19:14
russellbi'm sorry, but there's no way you can convince me that switching this in stable/grizzly is ok19:14
boris-42russellb and half of migrations are replaced=)19:14
boris-42ok, I just would like to explain situation19:15
boris-42why I am so afraid to switch to something else without fully tested migrations and synced models with tons of tests=)19:15
boris-42even in Havana19:15
boris-42we should be very careful with this things =)19:16
driptonWe all agree that we should be really careful even in Havana.  But there's no such thing as careful enough for Grizzly stable, since we promise not to add new features there.19:16
boris-42I agree that it could be dangerous =)19:16
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driptonSo do we have consensus that we're moving to Alembic in Havana, and taking over maintainership of sqlalchemy-migrate for legacy use?19:18
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russellbi personally don't necessarily have a strong tie to Alembic.  It's just obvious that we need to *not* be using migrate19:18
driptonI don't know of a third option unless we want to write our own.  Which would be well behind Alembic.19:19
* russellb nods19:19
boris-42Alembic is good because it has a community around it19:19
russellband it's cool if there are 10 steps that need to be completed before we can move19:19
boris-42And it is really much simpler to extend19:19
russellbbut as long as it's on our radar for asap19:19
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russellbusing a dead upstream is a really really bad position to be in19:19
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driptonI think I already have a blueprint for migrate -> alembic.  I will update it since it has more urgency now, and send mail to the ML.19:20
driptonUnless someone else has a competing blueprint that they'd rather use?19:20
boris-42we don't have but we have it on our road map19:21
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dripton#agreed move to Alembic in Havana19:21
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driptonnext topic anyone?19:21
boris-42I am not sure that we will be able to do it in Havana19:21
boris-42without a tons of reviews19:21
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boris-42russellb ^19:22
driptonIt sounds like we have to try hard or we're in danger of being stuck on sqlalchemy-migrate for another year.19:22
russellbyeah, it may be too late at this point19:22
boris-42russellb we are able to make all code in Havana19:22
russellbwe can only review so much19:23
boris-42if you can19:23
russellband it may be the kind of change that's better to land early in the cycle than right at the end19:23
boris-42there is no problem+)19:23
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russellbneed time to find any possible regressions19:23
boris-42I could ask QA guys to test in every possible way19:23
boris-42on real data19:24
boris-42from real deployements19:24
boris-42chose you destiny =)19:24
boris-42russellb ^19:24
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russellbif the code was ready this week maybe19:25
russellbotherwise i'm not terribly optimistic19:25
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russellbwe already have 80+ blueprints on havana-319:25
russellbno way we can get that many in19:25
russellbadding another high risk one probably isn't an option19:25
boris-42is it so problem to implement in I cycle19:26
boris-42and wait for 1.5 year? for this moment?)19:26
russellbthat's probably the only option right now19:26
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russellbfor nova anyway19:26
boris-42russellb ok then we will get some experience in ceilometer19:27
dripton#agreed move nova to alembic in Icehouse.  Too late for Havana.19:27
driptonnext topic?19:27
driptonboris-42 did we break the roadblock on getting your db code into oslo now that the archiving functions are out?19:28
dripton#topic db-archiving19:28
*** openstack changes topic to "db-archiving (Meeting topic: DB)"19:28
boris-42Ok we decide that db-archiving is not good enough for oslo DB code19:28
boris-42so it should stay only in Nova for a moment19:29
boris-42so we will remove our code from oslo sqlalchemy utilites19:29
boris-42and I hope our utilities will be land to oslo19:29
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boris-42So we will have, our sqlalchemy utilities and test_migrations in oslo19:30
boris-42Also I have some question19:30
boris-42As we are not able to move from sqlalchemy-migrate for a long period of time19:30
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boris-42it makes sense to move to oslo also code that makes migrations19:30
boris-42russellb ^19:30
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boris-42dripton ^19:31
driptonBut only some projects are using sqlalchemy-migrate, so there might be resistance to having it in oslo.19:31
driptonLike Neutron and now ceilometer won't use it.19:32
boris-42yeah but to have N different wrappers around sqlalchemy-migarte is also not so good idea19:32
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driptonWell, I guess it's okay to propose it and see if they're okay with it.  Though it would be good if there were an obvious parallel path for alembic.19:33
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driptonI have a controversial proposal.  Is it okay to remove FK constraints so that db-archiving can clean up deleted instances with metadata (wrongly but necessarily) still pointing to them?19:34
driptonI kind of think no, because the tail of archiving should not wag the dog of the Nova db schema19:34
driptonbug it would let us fix bug #118352319:35
dripton#topic open discussion19:36
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: DB)"19:36
driptonAnyone have anything else?19:36
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rpodolyaka1I've been working on implementation of db-api-tests-on-all-backends19:36
vsergeyevI have a question about db-reconnect19:36
rpodolyaka1mordred: could please take a look at
rpodolyaka1comments from anyone else are welcome too!19:37
driptonrpodolyaka1: that looks great.  We've needed that for a while.  I'll take a close look later.19:38
rpodolyaka1(as well as for any patches for this topic in Gerrit,n,z)19:38
rpodolyaka1mordred: I'm not sure that's the best way to run those tests...19:39
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*** changes topic to "sqlalchemy-migrate vs. alembic (Meeting topic: DB)"19:41
rpodolyaka1mordred: probably a better explanation is here
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boris-42rpodolyaka1 I think that we shouldn't fix UC in Nova19:42
boris-42rpodolyaka1 because that code is already in oslo19:43
rpodolyaka1boris-42: yep, and don't we need to import those code from Oslo?19:43
boris-42I think that we should wait until other code19:43
rpodolyaka1I've been making a slow progress on running DB API tests on MySQL and PostgreSQL, there are a few patches on review fixing various issues. There are about 15-20 test cases still failing19:43
boris-42that will be merged tomorrow when vsergeyev remove from it utilities that work with db archiving19:44
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boris-42as we discussed before today (it it not ready to be implemented in all proejcts)19:44
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boris-42So we will rethink it19:45
boris-42rpodolyaka1 nice work19:45
driptonyou might want to ask in #openstack-infra about the issues testing multiple DBs, since the cabal of infra geniuses hangs out there.19:46
rpodolyaka1dripton: actually, I tried, but haven't received enough feedback19:47
driptonrpololyaka1: I fear that means the answer isn't obvious to anyone because you're doing trailblazing work.19:47
driptonbut if we all go look at your patches, maybe someone will have good ideas.19:47
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rpodolyaka1dription: sure! that's exactly what I'm looking for19:48
vsergeyevplease can somebody look at blueprint db-reconnect implementation?
boris-42russellb dripton this is the almost patch set in db-api-tests
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boris-42almost last*19:48
russellbcool, may be able to have it done in h2 then19:49
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boris-42and Unique Constraints also19:49
boris-42how much days we have?19:49
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rpodolyaka1boris-42: 7?19:50
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boris-42i don't know=)19:50
rpodolyaka1boris-42: if you are talking about H219:50
boris-42yeah about H219:50
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dripton says 2013-07-1819:51
driptonSo very close19:51
russellbneeds to be merged by the end of Tuesday19:51
russellb18 is the release19:51
russellbso, 1619:51
boris-42If you help with reviews19:51
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boris-42I think that all patches are already on review19:52
boris-42But even if they are not we will finish it tomorrow19:52
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dripton#todo dripton send meeting minutes link to openstack-dev ML to try to get more reviewers19:52
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driptonAnyone have anything else?19:53
vsergeyevquestion about db reconnect )19:53
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vsergeyevdo we need procced situation when method could execute successfully in the database, but the connection could be dropped before the final status is sent to the client?19:54
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rpodolyaka1vsergevev: it19:55
rpodolyaka1vsergeyev: it's a real edge case, but data corruption is still possible...19:55
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driptonI don't know if databases let you handle that case where the connection drops at the very end.  There would have to be a final handshake telling the server that the client got the status.19:56
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boris-42sorry guys I have to go19:57
vsergeyevdripton, yes that's a question19:57
driptonIt's a real concern but I don't think we should hold up your patch over it.  If it's a problem in the real world there could be another fix later.19:57
boris-42dription russellb Thanks for meeting19:57
driptonthanks boris-4219:57
vsergeyevbut its  most unlikely situation19:57
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vsergeyevboris-42, bye19:57
driptonIf your patch only fixes 90% of the problem and we need another one for the other 10% later, that seems like it's still going in the right direction.19:58
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driptonAnything else?  We're almost out of time.19:59
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driptonThanks everyone.19:59
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 11 19:59:15 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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harlowja#startmeeting state-management19:59
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 11 19:59:37 2013 UTC.  The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)"19:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'state_management'19:59
harlowjahowday folks!19:59
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harlowjacómo estás20:01
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harlowjaEs este el canal español20:01
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jlucci1Muy bien. Gracias. Y tu?20:01
harlowjamu bein20:01
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harlowjaoh this is meeting time, not play around time, oops20:02
jlucci1Si, si es el canal de espanol20:02
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harlowjabeen a long time, hope had good 4th20:03
harlowjai made a few more tiny examples, nothing super major yet20:03
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harlowja#topic action-items20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "action-items (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:03
* harlowja i made a few more tiny examples, nothing super major yet20:04
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harlowjamade brought that up during nova meeting, not much filled in there, guess i'll have to get creative and make more of my own nova requirements :(20:04
harlowjajohnthetubaguy1 might get some time to help, but depends on how busy he is20:04
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harlowjakebray u have any luck with the 'see if someone from Trove can provide a high level sentence or two (and link to code) on their task execution code, desires around a common library, etc.'20:05
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kebraydough… let me ping mbasnight via email right now… will copy you.20:05
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kebraydoh!   sorry, got homemade pizza dough recipe on the brain… already planning ahead for the evening :-)20:06
harlowjayour brain has turned into pizza dough20:06
harlowjanot good20:06
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harlowjau might want to get that checked out20:06
kebraynope.. not good at all.20:06
kebrayTraveling… that's what happens.  currently in ATL airport.20:06
harlowjafriends don't let friends turn there brains into pizza dough20:07
harlowjaanyway, i'll continue working on more examples20:07
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harlowjathink that covers action items, adrian not around it seems20:08
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harlowja#topic status-check20:08
*** openstack changes topic to "status-check (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:08
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harlowjaso i've just been chugging away at the parallel flow, doing reviews, updating taskflow with some mini-changes20:09
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harlowjajlucci1 how's the distributed goodness going20:09
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jlucci1Pretty good, pretty good. Only blocker left is the stuff I talked with you about yesterday20:10
harlowjaya, the user-code stuff20:10
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harlowjaor user-tasks and imports and all that20:10
jlucci1Yeah, so for right now, just working on forcing a user defined-task at woker startup20:10
jlucci1worker *20:10
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jlucci1So, getting that in for the taskflow release20:11
kchenweijiehey, sorry im a bit late. didnt see the time20:11
jlucci1Then going back to change the impl to make it more customizable20:11
harlowjakchenweijie np20:11
jlucci1after initial taskflow release20:11
harlowjaya jlucci1  i think we can spend quite a bit of time figuring out how to do what u guys want20:11
harlowjain a way that won't require making a new python sandbox20:12
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jlucci1Yeah, I feel like this might be a couple-day's worth of discussion type thing20:12
harlowjajust depends on what u really want users to be able to do20:12
harlowjaarbitiray code execution *scary*20:12
jlucci1So, just getting this first pass in so distributed exists20:12
jlucci1Then going back and having all the fun talks. haha20:12
harlowjau guys are coming to CA so we can have that fun then :-p20:13
harlowjai think thats still happening, kebray ?20:13
jlucci1It better be - I already bought my plane tickets. ha20:13
harlowjawell sounds pretty good, how much longer u think for that first pass?20:14
kebrayYeah, it's a definite.. Thursday July 2520:14
harlowjathx kebray20:14
harlowjai'll try not to die in NY20:14
kebrayharlowja, you are welcome to visit the RS office Friday if you want.20:14
jlucci1I'm just building up test cases at this point/hammering out fine details20:14
harlowjakebray sure sure20:14
harlowjajlucci1 cool20:14
jlucci1Soo, I want to say tomorrow, but I also have an exam tonight and a final on Saturday20:15
jlucci1So it may not be until Monday/Tuesday next week20:15
harlowjapython exam?20:15
jlucci1I wish20:15
jlucci1Electrochemistry/redox reactions and kinetics just aren't as much fun20:15
jlucci1Done. I'll have your code in two hours20:16
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harlowjaall good, i'll try to do some code reviews next week also, when i'm in NY20:16
harlowja*unsure about wireless access*20:16
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harlowjakchenweijie how's your persistance stuff20:16
harlowjamr.leading db expert kchenweijie20:17
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kchenweijiewell i finished up working in the new design (no persistence for flows, jobs, tasks, etc)20:17
kchenweijienow im just wrestling with git (i dont understand why im so bad) and getting ready to put up a code review20:17
harlowjagit has like a learning period i think20:17
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harlowjalike 3months i think20:17
kchenweijiei feel like i break git on a daily basis20:17
harlowjaya, i felt that way a while ago also20:17
kchenweijiebut yeah, once i get git to do what i want, the code review will be up for you20:18
harlowjaanything we can help with20:18
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harlowjabeat git with a stick?20:18
harlowja*not literally*20:18
kchenweijieif you could somehow explain to me why rebasing makes git think my branch is 5 commits behind and 4 commits ahead, that would be very helpful20:18
* harlowja gonna get in trouble via anniec 20:18
harlowjaso 5 commits behind, 4 commits ahead20:19
harlowjathats 9 commits in the middle20:19
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harlowjaor -1 commits behind20:19
kchenweijieso i do an interactive rebase, re-push it, and all of a sudden bad things happen20:19
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harlowjahmmm, let me see if i can help u afterwards, sound good20:20
clarkbI think that means you rebased atop something that was 5 commits behind and have 4 commits you added there20:20
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kchenweijiei really need to figure out this rebasing thing20:20
harlowjaya clarkb could be right, but if pushing breaks, then it might not be able to rebase correctly20:20
harlowjaand u could be in the middle of a rebase still20:20
kchenweijiethats wehre i keep breaking git20:20
kchenweijieill look into it after i get this code review in20:21
harlowjaya, its a tricky part20:21
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kchenweijieother than that, thats it for me20:21
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harlowjacool, i'll see if i can help u with the git madness20:21
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harlowjaany other status from folks, there is some neat work that i know about going with a 'block flow' concept20:22
harlowjaseeing how that can shape into something pretty useful20:22
harlowja*see the tests for a good example or 220:22
harlowjait allows for a slightly more natural way to use flows (and subflow), so might be pretty nice20:23
harlowjaalthough we have to be careful to not start creating to much of a mini-dsl (domain specific language) ahead of time20:23
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harlowjaso just something neat to comment on if u guys want to20:24
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harlowja#topic release20:25
*** openstack changes topic to "release (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:25
harlowjaso for this one, seems like after next week, we can have a potential 0.1 ?20:25
jlucci1I think so20:25
harlowjaand then we can start getting usage in cinder and nova (and heat?) and elsewhere, at least with said thing it becomes easier for them to try it20:25
jlucci1I'd also really like to get some more robust docs/examples before release too20:26
harlowjaasalkeld keeps on suggesting to me that we shouldn't go on pypi and should go via a (copy/paste) mechaism like oslo-incubator20:26
harlowjapypi means some level of api stabilitiy i think in his point of view, which means we can't change stuff as easily20:27
harlowjabut with we can more easily change things (?)20:27
jlucci1But this would have the potential to move over to pypi after more stabilization?20:28
harlowjasure, thats afaik how the oslo-incubator path goes20:28
harlowjabut it becomes a question of when is anything stable, ha20:29
jlucci1Right, right. But that's true for any project. : P20:30
harlowjaso the approach would mean that if openstack project wants to use taskflow, we'd basically copy taskflow to there source directory, ie nova/taskflow20:30
harlowjaya, so thats the downside20:30
harlowjaor u could make it more configurable, --flows=linear,graph20:31
harlowjaand then just copy the pieces needed to use those20:31
harlowjabut its copy still20:31
jlucci1mmm - I just hate the idea of this going to pypi one day, and then having 20 files break because your import path has changed20:31
jlucci1And copy/pasting files20:31
harlowjaya, i know what u mean20:32
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jlucci1But it sort of seems like the only option atm20:33
harlowjawell or release to pypi and deal with that20:33
jlucci1I just don't think we're ready for a pypi release yet20:33
jlucci1If we have to have a pretty-set API20:34
harlowjabut maybe we aren't ready for that, maybe if we get pretty good used adoption in cinder/heat for example then we can say 'its great now' and then pypi20:34
jlucci1Yeah, that seems to be the way to go20:34
harlowjak, it does make it a little more painful versioning wise, but might be ok to get adoption20:35
harlowjatradeoffs either way i guess20:35
harlowjai'm fine with trying it and seeing how it goes20:36
jlucci1+ 120:36
harlowja*the approach20:36
jlucci1yeah haha20:36
harlowjaok, i'll see if i can create a *similar thing* sometime20:37
jlucci1action item?20:37
harlowja#action harlowja make similar thing20:37
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harlowja:) sounds like we'll see what happens with that until proven otherwise20:38
harlowja#topic use-cases20:39
*** openstack changes topic to "use-cases (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:39
harlowjaany new uses cases for folks interesting in trying taskflow out??20:39
harlowjause cases (free by the dozen)20:39
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harlowjaalright then, maybe next time :-P20:40
jlucci1Not that I know of20:40
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harlowjasweet, open discussion then20:40
harlowja#topic open-discuss20:41
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harlowjai'll be out next week btw, so jlucci1 i think will be leading the starship20:41
jlucci1: D20:41
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harlowjaphases at stun jlucci120:41
harlowjaany awesome open discussions for folks?20:42
harlowja*or not awesome is ok also20:42
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harlowjagoiiing once20:43
harlowjagoiiiiing twiiice20:43
harlowjafor refunds (or futher questions) please visit #openstack-state-management20:44
harlowja24/7 service20:44
harlowjathx kchenweijie jlucci1 for coming :)20:44
jlucci1haha yupyup20:45
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack meetings ||"20:45
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 11 20:45:27 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:45
openstackMinutes (text):
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russellb#startmeeting nova21:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 11 21:00:34 2013 UTC.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:00
russellbhello, everyone21:00
russellbwho's here?21:00
* johnthetubaguy waves21:00
russellb#topic havana-221:01
*** openstack changes topic to "havana-2 (Meeting topic: nova)"21:01
russellbhavana-2 release is next week21:01
russellbmerge deadline is EOD Tuesday, July 1621:01
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russellbI've already deferred a *bunch* of stuff to havana-3 that didn't look like it could make it21:01
russellblet's review the list of what's left21:01
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russellbfirst up, let's cover v3 API work21:02
russellbcyeoh: hi!21:02
cyeohheh ok.21:02
russellba lot has merged in the last week21:02
cyeohso we have about 40 or so extensions merged so far21:02
cyeoharound 15-20 more to go21:02
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cyeohI don't think all will make it in - merge conflicts and also we need a newer version of stevedore for 1 of them21:03
russellbok, so of these blueprints, are any that aren't marked as Implemented feasible for h2?21:03
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cyeohbut they should all flow in not long after21:03
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russellbas in, which ones should we go ahead and set for havana-3?21:04
cyeohsorry just doing a quick check21:04
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russellbi guess about all of them21:04
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russellbexcept maybe "convert core API" ?21:04
cyeoh might actually be done21:04
cyeohthere is one more to go and that's it21:04
russellbok, so let's keep that one in h221:04
russellband move the rest21:04
russellbcan you update them?21:04
cyeohyea the rest are all pretty much dependent on all the extensions being merged before considered done21:05
cyeohok, will do21:05
russellbyeah makes sense21:05
russellbreally nice progress though21:05
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russellbanything else on v3 API you'd like to discuss?21:05
cyeohthx - have had lots of help getting them merged - thank you to all who have pushed them through with all the merge conflicts...21:05
cyeohnothing else on v3 API.21:05
russellbsure np, and now you're on the hook to help push the ones through that others write :)21:05
russellbalaski: query-scheduler21:06
russellbalaski: looks like some core bits are in, but not the part where we change the main instance boot code path to use it21:06
alaskiFrom a dependency standpoint it's not in the way21:06
alaskibut there's a little more to do, which probably won't make h-221:07
russellbok, wanted to clarify that part was in scope for this blueprint21:07
russellbsounds like it is21:07
russellband won't make it21:07
russellbso defer to h-3?21:07
alaskiyep.  That part turned out to be more nuanced than I had hoped.21:07
russellbcool, there are often dragons when you go trying to redo something that has been there for ages :)21:08
russellbdansmith: compute-api-objects21:08
russellbdansmith: have a chance for h-2?21:08
dansmithrussellb: not gonna make h2,21:08
russellback, will defer21:08
dansmithcomstud: disagree?21:08
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dansmithI wish it were different, but, it ain't.21:09
comstudToo many methods left21:09
russellbboris-42: db-api-tests21:09
russellbboris-42: looks really close to done21:09
russellbaccording to status on the blueprint, only a few spots left to cover, and 2/3 have patches up for review21:10
russellbso we'll leave this on for h-2 and hope we can get it done by the deadline21:10
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russellbboris-42: sound good?21:10
russellbboris may be asleep.  :-)21:10
driptonboris-42 would ask everyone to please review those patches.21:11
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mikalHeh, so many db reviews21:11
russellbnext is cross-service-request-id21:11
russellbanyone know status of that one?21:11
russellbhas 3 +2s and a -221:12
devanandai blocked one of the pacthes for it21:12
devanandabecause it exposed the cross serive id in a way that any user could set any value for it21:12
devanandaand tht would get passed all over the place21:12
devanandakinda defeats the point, IMO21:12
devanandai really like the concept, just not that it's exposed in that way21:13
russellbyeah, seems like users should have no ability to impact21:13
russellband no knowledge of21:13
russellbjust an admin thing21:13
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russellbok, well, if it's blocked by a fundamental design issue, i'm deferring it21:13
johnthetubaguyseems fair21:14
russellbalaski: shelve-instance21:14
russellbjust needs review?21:14
alaskiyes.  two need rebase once the first is in, but everythings up21:15
russellbok cool21:15
russellbneed help reviewing that one then!21:15
russellbVek has eliminate-clear-passwords-from-cells-table21:16
russellbI think that one is close to ready21:16
russellbi had a problem with the data migration, but we've talked about it and he should have it updated soon21:16
johnthetubaguyalaski: will take a closer look tomorrow21:16
russellbjohnthetubaguy: awesome thanks!21:16
alaskijohnthetubaguy: thanks.21:16
russellbnext is ec2-error-codes21:16
russellbdon't think the author is around21:16
russellbI -2'd that one, because it looked like it needed to be broken up a bunch, but that was after a quick review21:17
russellbhe basically asked me to reconsider, and I haven't had a chance yet21:17
russellbso I would appreciate a 2nd opinion21:17
russellbprobably need to give him guidance on how to break it up, that was going to be my response when i get back to it21:18
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russellbunless someone else looks and tells me they agree with him that it's fine as-is21:18
dansmithI'll have a look when we're done21:18
russellbok cool thanks21:18
mroddenyeah i think that definitely needs to be broken up...21:19
johnthetubaguyat first glance it looks huge21:19
russellbmrodden: ok, feedback appreciated on the review then21:19
boris-42russellb I am here21:19
russellbok last medium one is from johnthetubaguy21:19
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johnthetubaguyah, its in review21:19
russellbxenapi large ephemeral disks21:19
russellbso just need review?21:19
johnthetubaguygot almost approved, just added an extra log21:19
russellbok cool, so hopefully we can knock that out in the next few days.21:20
russellbthe rest still on the list are Low priority ones, anyone around that wants to talk about them?21:20
russellbLow priority ones aren't worried about quite as much from a release management perspective, just nice to haves21:20
russellbif you have time to help review stuff, please focus on the > Low priority stuff first21:20
russellbboris-42: i was reviewing blueprints, covered db-api-tests, looks like there's a good chance we can have it completed for h-2, correct?21:21
boris-42yes correct21:21
boris-42I will force guys to finish tomorrow all patches21:21
mikalboris-42: that sounds... concerning21:21
boris-42if instance_* tests will be merged21:21
boris-42then there is just a little bit work21:22
boris-42I think we will finish before you wake up-)21:22
russellbmikal: lol, the forcing part?21:22
johnthetubaguyBTW, anyone know why is not refreshing, maybe I need to check my email?21:22
mikalrussellb: yeah, I imagine a drum being beaten at the back of the room or something21:22
russellbmikal: i imagine boris-42 as a russian mob boss21:23
russellb"you WILL finish these patches.... or else"21:23
russellbjohnthetubaguy: i do not ... i would ask in -infra.  i haven't seen any email about it21:23
johnthetubaguyrussellb: yeah, I should head over there21:24
russellbso last comment before we move on21:24
mroddenuser-locale-api is still waiting for reviews, but it also has a prereq. that I am waiting to be merged in oslo, which is actually +2CR right now just waiting for an approval to throw it to Zuul for merge21:24
russellbmrodden: ok, will leave it on the list for now then21:24
russellbso ... havana-3 is going to be insane21:25
boris-42pci passthrough ....21:25
russellbif you want your stuff to actually land, PLEASE have it up for review as early as possible21:25
boris-42it makes m cry21:25
russellbbecause if even half of that gets implemented, that's going to be pushing our review bandwidth21:25
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russellbit also means prioritizing reviews is very important, so we focus on getting the most important stuff in21:26
boris-42there are 2 implementations my and Inetels based on my patch21:26
boris-42DB patch21:26
boris-42that should be rewritten in unified models way21:26
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russellbyour db patch should be rewritten?21:26
russellbyes, please use the unified-objects stuff21:26
russellbspeaking of which, we need to start blocking patches that should be using those, but aren't21:27
russellbbasically, creating new DB models and then exposing them to the rest of the code21:27
boris-42absolutely agree21:27
russellbneeds to be done using the new way.21:27
boris-42but this patch is much more older then unified models=)21:27
boris-42so it use old way=)21:27
russellbi -2'd another that is in the same situation21:27
russellbbut we really can't afford going backwards on this effort21:27
boris-42I agree21:28
russellbit's critical for one of the highest priority efforts we have - the long road to solid support for live rolling upgrades21:28
boris-42I agree lol=)21:28
johnthetubaguysame for v3 things, all changes to both apis?21:28
russellbsaying it so everyone else understands too21:28
boris-42We will help also with this stuff in I cycle21:28
comstudYea, I kinda crapped all over boris's reviews, unfortunately.21:28
russellbjohnthetubaguy: that's a good point ... we should probably start forcing v3 versions as well21:28
dansmith+1 on v321:29
boris-42comstud it's ok21:29
johnthetubaguyyeah, makes sense, for the same reasons21:29
cyeohyes, definitely for v321:29
russellbalright, onward21:29
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boris-42ok I have to sleep+)21:29
russellb#topic bugs21:29
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russellbany particular bugs we need to discuss21:29
russellbboris-42: ok thanks!21:29
russellb67 new bugs, a little more than i'd like21:30
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boris-42russellb do you need some help?)21:30
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boris-42with bugs?)21:30
russellbboris-42: with bug triage, always21:30
russellband fixing them :)21:30
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boris-42russelb ok I add some rule about fixing bugs=)21:30
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boris-42minimum 1 bug / week21:30
russellbsounds ok to me21:30
boris-42for each developer=)21:31
bnemecI started triaging - feel free to yell at me if I confirmed anything I shouldn't have. :-)21:31
driptonFixing bugs you created yourself doesn't count21:31
boris-42dripton ok=)21:31
boris-42dription I will say them=)21:31
russellbif anyone comes across High/Critical bugs while triaging, it would be good to bring them up here21:31
dansmithdripton: that vastly limits the bugs I can fix for credit :(21:31
russellbi want to sure at least those get some attention ..21:31
boris-42russellb I would like to merge all models vs migrations syncs in H221:32
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russellbboris-42: ok, we can try.21:32
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russellblet's just to sub-teams21:32
boris-42it could produce some unexpected bugs in psql and mysql21:32
russellb#topic sub-team reports21:32
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russellbanyone around to give a report?21:33
russellbdevananda: ?21:33
boris-42Ok see you later=)21:33
harlowja\o/ but not that much to report on21:33
russellbdevananda: wanna go first?21:33
russellb(Ironic / baremetal driver)21:33
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devanandanot much to report on. working on the API service for ironic, definitely not going to be ready for h3 in a comparable-to-baremetal way21:34
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russellbdevananda: i went ahead and deferred the deprecate-baremetal blueprint to post-havana21:34
devanandathe tripleo side of baremetal is moving alogn well, but i dont think a lot has changed with the baremetal driver itself21:34
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russellbyeah, saw the proposal to make an official program for it21:34
russellbcool stuff.21:34
devanandaironic is still waiting for the image utils to move out of nova and into glanceclient21:35
devanandaonce that lands in glanceclient, i think GheRivero will be able to propose a DRY-it-up patch to nova and cinder21:35
devanandabut that wont be a functional change21:35
devanandathat's probably it for the nova side of our work latey21:35
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russellbok cool thanks!21:36
russellbjohnthetubaguy: you're up, for xenapi!21:36
johnthetubaguyso not a lot of news really21:37
russellbyou need reviews on your h-2 blueprint :-)21:37
johnthetubaguysome work towards getting XenAPI gated, but not visible progress21:37
russellboh yeah?  didn't know about that21:37
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johnthetubaguy+1 for reviews on that blueprint :)21:37
russellbthat's cool to hear actually.21:37
johnthetubaguya few h-3 blueprints might get pushed out21:37
russellbjohnthetubaguy: btw, did you see my email a week or two ago about "compute driver criteria" ?21:38
johnthetubaguyyeah, Citrix guys have most of the tempest tests going21:38
russellbdevananda: you too, since it affects baremetal ^^21:38
johnthetubaguyrussellb: I did, but I should re-read it and check it again!21:38
russellbxenapi is already in the clear since it's running in smokestack21:38
devanandahm, nope :( /me goes and looks21:38
russellbbaremetal needs to have something going in the next 9 months ... but I believe that's being worked on21:38
russellbdevananda: no worries, easy to miss stuff on the ML ...21:38
devanandarussellb: tl;dr - we need a smokestack-like test rig, yes?21:39
russellbdevananda: basically i want all virt drivers being tested against changes, even if just providing info like smokestack does21:39
devanandarussellb: perfect. already talked at length with folks about this, and yea, it's being worked on21:39
russellband i proposed a Icehouse release deadline basically21:39
russellband on that note ...21:39
russellbhartsocks: hi!21:39
johnthetubaguyso, Citrix guys are going to updated their blueprints soon, maybe dropping some from h-321:39
johnthetubaguyI am all done now though21:40
russellbjohnthetubaguy: ok cool, let me know and i'll update them21:40
russellbjohnthetubaguy: thanks!21:40
johnthetubaguyrussellb: thanks, will do21:40
russellbhartsocks: updates?  also, did you see that email i'm referencing?21:40
hartsocksSo on VMwareAPI team...21:40
russellb"Compute driver criteria" i think21:40
russellbtl;dr ... are you guys working on some sort of CI integration?21:40
hartsocksDoesn't ring a bell.21:40
russellbok, then you're safe21:41
russellbi'd like to see it by Icehouse21:41
hartsocksI was going to mention I heard back from a group working on 'tempest' for vmwareapi stuff21:41
russellbwhich is a good ways out, so shouldn't be a big deal if you're looking into it already21:41
hartsocksI'm not going to forecast when they'll have that up21:41
russellbbut at some point in the future, i'm going to start to push removing things we're not testing :-)21:41
russellbthat's what the openstack-dev ML post was about21:41
russellbkind of a first warning shot about it21:42
hartsocksI will feel much better when we get our test coverage up higher.21:42
* russellb nods21:42
hartsocksI went around to the H2 blueprint holders...21:42
hartsockslooked them deep in the eyes...21:42
hartsocksand asked...21:42
hartsocksAre you really really going to make H2?21:42
russellbi may have already deferred some/most/all of them ...21:42
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russellbif they didn't look like they could make it21:43
russellbif you feel otherwise, let me know21:43
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hartsocksWe're close but H2 is too close and a lot of our contributors are traveling in the next couple weeks.21:43
russellbanything else going on?21:44
hartsocksIt looks like H2 will be all about bug fixes for us.21:44
hartsocksThat's the big new.21:44
russellbcool, thanks!21:44
russellbn0ano: scheduling!21:45
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n0anolike others, not too much this week, we talked about two patches going around...21:45
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n0anocode refactoring - e.g. moving common scheduler & cinder code to oslo, concensus was that's a good idea..21:45
russellbthere is some already in oslo21:46
russellbthat nova needs to get updated to use21:46
russellbcommon filter and weight infrastructure21:46
n0anoother was volume affinity filter - concensus there was this was more likely a weighting function rather than a filter21:46
russellbwas put there when cinder was doing its filter scheduler21:46
russellbn0ano: ok i was going to ask about that21:46
russellbi'm fine with the weight, but the more i thought about it, the more I'm -2 on the filter as proposed21:46
russellb for reference21:46
n0anoindeed, we pretty much agreed with you on that, didn't see any compelling use cases for a filter21:47
n0anothat's about it21:47
russellbok thanks!21:47
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russellbharlowja: hi!21:47
harlowjaso just getting the relase of taskflow ready, shaping up, few more items being worked on, then hopefully can start plugging it in for H3 into cinder at least to start21:48
harlowjajust mostly chugging away on making that initial release possible21:48
harlowjachug chug21:49
russellbcool, well thanks for the update, any other details you want to share?21:49
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harlowjanothing much yet :)21:49
russellbk, thanks!21:49
russellb#topic open discussion21:49
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russellb10 minutes left if anyone wants to chat about ... anything!21:50
russellbjenkins is busy.21:50
russellb87 patches total under test right now21:50
russellb30 in the gate.21:50
russellb(across all projects)21:50
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russellbother random interesting number ... in nova we've had 3597 code reviews done by 176 people in the last 30 days.21:51
timello_I'm back. Any feedback on patches: and would be nice.21:51
timello_They are related to the cold-migrations-to-conductor bp.21:51
johnthetubaguytimello_: on my list for tomorrow, a review day for me tomorrow I feel21:52
harlowjarussellb is there a jenkins monitor that can be used to see how busy it is?21:52
comstudi'll be out of town for over a week21:52
timello_johnthetubaguy: awesome, I appreciate.21:52
russellbjohnthetubaguy: cool, appreciate that21:52
comstudwith limited online-ness21:52
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russellbcomstud: ah yes, thanks for the reminder / heads up21:52
russellbcomstud: safe travels to you sir21:52
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russellbharlowja: there are a couple of things you can use ... one is
Chinmay_hey guys i had a quick question about imagebackend caching21:53
Chinmay_any reasons why were create it per flavor ?21:53
russellbharlowja: the other is
russellbharlowja: which is just a command line thingy, but it's pretty awesome.21:53
dansmithrussellb: JUST a command line thingy?21:53
russellbmikal: ^ ?21:53
russellbdansmith: hehe21:53
dansmithlike bash is JUST a command line thingy?21:54
dansmithmkay :)21:54
mikalrussellb: curse you21:54
harlowjais it using ncurses?21:54
mikalChinmay_: IIRC, and it might have changed, we cache the glance image, and then the post resize image21:54
mikalChinmay_: we do that to avoid doing the resize over and over21:54
* johnthetubaguy quietly runs away to bed...21:54
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Chinmay_mikal : ok thanks21:55
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russellbharlowja: no21:56
russellbharlowja: print!21:56
dansmithrussellb: I hit that review21:57
dansmiththe ec2 madness one21:57
russellbdansmith: cool21:57
russellbdansmith: ok so hopefully that's enough to convince him to split it up21:58
harlowjarussellb hmmm might have to hook in curses :-p21:58
russellbharlowja: yeah21:58
dansmithare we done here? :)21:58
russellbthanks everyone!21:58
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 11 21:58:57 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:58
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