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| mestery | Hi | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| mestery | #startmeeting networking_ml2 | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 14 14:00:48 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:00 | |
| rkukura | hi | 14:00 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_ml2' | 14:00 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ML2 Agenda | 14:01 |
| mestery | Wanted to highlight the ML2 wiki page again for everyone. | 14:01 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/ML2 ML2 Wiki Page | 14:01 |
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| mestery | Keep adding content there as new ML2 items appear, we should use the wiki as the main ML2 contact point for new people looking into using or working on ML2. | 14:02 |
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| mestery | #topic Discussion Items | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion Items (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:02 | |
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| mestery | rkukura suggested we talk about BPs which will make the H3 cutoff next week first. | 14:02 |
| rkukura | other than ml2-portbinding and ml2-mult-segment, are there any others not yet in review? | 14:03 |
| rcurran | ml2 cisco mech driver | 14:03 |
| mestery | None that were deemed as ML2 infrastructure, no. Only MechDrivers left. | 14:03 |
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| apech | we posted the Arista mechanism driver for review last Friday, appreciate people's review | 14:04 |
| mestery | I am not sure multi-segment will make H3. | 14:04 |
| rkukura | will ODL mech driver make H3? | 14:04 |
| mestery | It's likely not to, in fact. I'll see what I can do in the next week. | 14:04 |
| mestery | ODL is out for H3. | 14:04 |
| mestery | IT was dependent on too many upstream ODL changes which are not complete yet. | 14:04 |
| mestery | #info OpenDaylight MechanismDriver moved into Icehouse | 14:05 |
| rkukura | I should be able to get ml2-portbinding ready for review by Friday | 14:05 |
| mestery | #info ML2 Port Binding should be out for review by Friday | 14:06 |
| apech | great, thanks rkukura | 14:06 |
| rkukura | I'll be on PTO next week, but plan to spend some time on updates and other ml2 reviews | 14:06 |
| mestery | rkukura: Do we still agree that it's ok for multi-segment to slip to Icehouse? How hard should I push on that one in the next week? | 14:06 |
| sukhdev | rkukura, thanks | 14:06 |
| rkukura | PTO should at least prevent most other work distractions;-) | 14:07 |
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| rkukura | I don't think its a huge deal if multi-segment slips, but it might be very simple | 14:07 |
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| mestery | I'll try my best to get a review out by next week to make the cutoff. | 14:08 |
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| mestery | So, the other BP of note: ML2 TypeDriver Extra Port Info | 14:08 |
| mestery | rkukura: Do we want that in for H3? | 14:08 |
| rkukura | I just started looking at the current patch set | 14:08 |
| mestery | rkukura: It's a fairly small patch, seems as if it should be ok once reviewed. | 14:09 |
| ZangMingJie | I think it is almost ready to ship now | 14:09 |
| rkukura | I've got some small concerns with the type driver API changes, but I'm sure they can be worked through | 14:09 |
| mestery | rkukura: Can you provide some quick feedback on that on on gerrit today? | 14:10 |
| rkukura | I'll try my best | 14:10 |
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| mestery | rkukura: Thanks, and I'll do the same. | 14:10 |
| mestery | Did I miss any other BPs? | 14:10 |
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| rkukura | Is everyone else comfortable with the direction of this patch? | 14:10 |
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| rkukura | I'm wondering if multi-segment API should be the main way extra port info is supplied/accessed? | 14:11 |
| mestery | Interesting idea there. | 14:12 |
| mestery | rkukura: I'll look into that when working on multi-segment. | 14:13 |
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| mestery | Lets move onto the next topic on the agenda now. | 14:14 |
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| mestery | #topic Documentation | 14:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Documentation (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:14 | |
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| mestery | I'm going to start the ML2 documentation soon as well. | 14:15 |
| mestery | We need this to ensure anyone who wants to deploy Havana with ML2 has some direction. :) | 14:15 |
| mestery | Anyone who wants to join me in writing this is more than welcome! | 14:15 |
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| mestery | #action mestery to start on ML2 documentation patches. | 14:16 |
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| mestery | Any questions on documentation? | 14:16 |
| apech | mestery: happy to help | 14:16 |
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| mestery | apech: My first willing victim, excellent. :) | 14:16 |
| rcurran | i take it at some point each mech vendor will add in there specific info | 14:16 |
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| mestery | #action apech to assist with ML2 documentation | 14:16 |
| mestery | rcurran: We won't put vendor specific stuff into the general OpenStack documentation, same as with existing plugins. | 14:17 |
| mestery | rcurrna: Vendor specific ML2 config will likely be on a wiki page, again, same as existing plugins. | 14:17 |
| mestery | rkukura: Do you concur here? | 14:17 |
| rcurran | ok, got it | 14:17 |
| sukhdev | I think that makes sense | 14:18 |
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| rkukura | Sure, but I think the ml2 documentation should cover configuring drivers in general, with reference to the wikis for details | 14:18 |
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| mestery | Agreed, that makes sense. | 14:18 |
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| mestery | #topic ML2 devstack | 14:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ML2 devstack (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:19 | |
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| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40882/1 ML2 Per MechanismDriver config | 14:20 |
| mestery | Has anyone tried to use this yet? | 14:20 |
| mestery | I've tried it with ODL, and it works great for adding ODL MD config. | 14:20 |
| mestery | Would appreciate comments. | 14:20 |
| mestery | I plan to rebase it later today. | 14:20 |
| apech | mestery: have not, we'll try it out | 14:20 |
| mestery | apech: Thanks! | 14:20 |
| rcurran | i'll work w/ you also kyle on testing this w/ cisco_nexus | 14:21 |
| mestery | rcurran: Thanks! Appreciate it! | 14:21 |
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| mestery | Any other devstack ML2 questions/concerns? | 14:22 |
| rkukura | what about gating? | 14:22 |
| rcurran | i have been using the initial devstack changes for ml2 and that works greate | 14:22 |
| rkukura | do we want to get ml2+ovs gating going before switching devstack default? | 14:22 |
| mestery | Good point. The gate and Neutron were in a tenuous relationship for the past few weeks, so I decided against bringing ML2 into that. | 14:22 |
| mestery | Perhaps now is a good time. | 14:22 |
| mestery | I think we need to get ovs+ml2 gating before we switch. | 14:23 |
| mestery | #action mestery and rkukura to figure out ml2+ovs gating and switching devstack to default to ml2 | 14:23 |
| rkukura | seems we need someone to work with the CI folks on that, right? | 14:23 |
| mestery | Yes | 14:24 |
| rkukura | progress from non-voting to voting to default? | 14:24 |
| mestery | Agreed, that should be good. | 14:24 |
| mestery | #topic ML2 Bugs and BPs | 14:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ML2 Bugs and BPs (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:25 | |
| mestery | There were a few bugs/BPs I forgot to mention at the top of the meeting. | 14:25 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41136/ OVS L2 Population BP | 14:26 |
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| mestery | This looks to be revived now, and would be nice to get into H3 if possible. | 14:26 |
| feleouet | taht would be great | 14:27 |
| mestery | rkukura: This may affect port binding, wanted to bring this to your attention. | 14:27 |
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| rkukura | I noticed that | 14:27 |
| mestery | It's on my plate to review later today. feleouet: Do you plan to submit a new patch which passes Jenkins soon? | 14:28 |
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| feleouet | safchain is actually in charge of this part | 14:28 |
| feleouet | but I think he will soon | 14:29 |
| mestery | feleouet: Ah, ok, thanks! I'll review this one soon as well. | 14:29 |
| rkukura | I need to look at this in more detail - Ideally portbinding would go in first | 14:29 |
| safchain | Sorry, I'll try to submit a new one by the end of the week | 14:29 |
| feleouet | alongside with linuxbridge agent implementation | 14:29 |
| mestery | safchain: Thanks. | 14:29 |
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| mestery | feleouet: Cool! | 14:29 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1196963 VXLAN and GRE with the same ID | 14:29 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1196963 in neutron "Update the OVS agent code to program tunnels using ports instead of tunnel IDs" [Wishlist,In progress] | 14:29 |
| mestery | This is another one it would be great to get in for H3. | 14:30 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41239/ GRE and VXLAN review | 14:30 |
| rkukura | feleouet: We may want to talk offline since ml2-portbinding is removing use of portbindings_db | 14:30 |
| feleouet | rkukura: ok, for sure, I have to look at the proposal | 14:31 |
| feleouet | the patch for bug/1196963 has important impacts on the flow logic | 14:32 |
| feleouet | it will be required to implement l2-population on OVS agent | 14:32 |
| mestery | feleouet: I'd like to get that one in, it will improve things I believe. | 14:32 |
| mestery | feleouet: I think we can get this one in relatively easily. | 14:33 |
| feleouet | well, for now, not that much (appart from fixing the bug) | 14:33 |
| mestery | It's the gateway to L2 population as you say | 14:33 |
| feleouet | yes, It'd be great | 14:33 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on to the last agenda item now. | 14:33 |
| mestery | #topic MechanismDriver Updates | 14:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MechanismDriver Updates (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:34 | |
| feleouet | I'm doing some perf benchs to make sure it doesn't has side effects | 14:34 |
| mestery | Sukhdev, apech: Arista update? | 14:34 |
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| sukhdev | I posted the patch for review last friday | 14:34 |
| rkukura | feleouet: diagram is very helpful! | 14:34 |
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| sukhdev | will appreciate the review | 14:35 |
| mestery | sukhdev: I saw that, very good! | 14:35 |
| sukhdev | thanks | 14:35 |
| mestery | #action ML2 team to review Arista MechanismDriver | 14:35 |
| mestery | rcurran: Cisco MD updates? | 14:35 |
| rcurran | should go up end of week or beginning of next ... beefing up UT and some odds and ends | 14:36 |
| sukhdev | mestery, rkukura: can you please review the patch and provide feedback? | 14:36 |
| rcurran | question of arista ... since everyone is here | 14:36 |
| mestery | sukhdev: Yes, will review it this week. | 14:36 |
| rcurran | location of mech_vendor.ini files | 14:36 |
| sukhdev | great, thanks | 14:36 |
| rkukura | sukhdev: will do | 14:36 |
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| rcurran | under etc/neutron or neutron/plugin ..../drivers | 14:36 |
| sukhdev | rcurran, thanks for bringing this up - | 14:37 |
| rcurran | i put cisco's under etc/../ml2/ml2_mech_cisco.ini | 14:37 |
| sukhdev | I did not know where to put .ini file | 14:37 |
| rcurran | along w/ existing ml2_conf.ini | 14:37 |
| mestery | rcurran: I think that makes sense to me. | 14:38 |
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| sukhdev | when i run openstack, I put the .ini file there as well - but, for the submission purposes, where do you put it? | 14:38 |
| rcurran | not /etc ... file belongs under etc/plugins/ml2/ | 14:39 |
| rcurran | it gets moved to /etc | 14:39 |
| sukhdev | Ah OK | 14:40 |
| sukhdev | I can move it there in my next submission | 14:40 |
| mestery | One more MD BP to note here (though I don't think Luke Gorrie is here): | 14:41 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37647/ Tail-F NCS MechanismDriver Review | 14:42 |
| mestery | This one is on patchset 11, looks to be progressing nicely./ | 14:42 |
| mestery | Any other MechanismDriver updates? | 14:43 |
| sukhdev | while on the subject, can I ask a general question? | 14:43 |
| mestery | sukhdev: yes! | 14:43 |
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| sukhdev | somebody posted a comment on the patch that if I introduce new DB models, I have to provide migration, where can I get info on that? | 14:44 |
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| mestery | sukhdev: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/DatabaseMigration | 14:45 |
| mestery | It's fairly simple, but please reach out with questions if you have any. | 14:45 |
| sukhdev | thanks a ton | 14:45 |
| mestery | #topic Questions? | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Questions? (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:45 | |
| mestery | So, anything else for ML2 this week? | 14:45 |
| rcurran | so you need changes for a new db | 14:46 |
| rcurran | migration changes | 14:46 |
| mestery | rcurran: I think only for changing existing DBs. | 14:46 |
| rcurran | ok, which we don't have | 14:46 |
| sukhdev | Ah I see - | 14:46 |
| mestery | Yes, that makes it easier. | 14:46 |
| rkukura | Are the mechanism driver's adding tables to ml2's DB, or adding their own DBs? | 14:47 |
| rcurran | easier or no changes :-) | 14:47 |
| sukhdev | I am not changing any DB models, so, I do not need to concer with this yet | 14:47 |
| rkukura | If you are adding new models, I think migrations are needed | 14:47 |
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| sukhdev | rkukura, yes, I am adding our own DB tables in driver | 14:48 |
| rkukura | sukhdev: so I think migrations are needed for those new tables | 14:48 |
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| sukhdev | rkukura, thanks for clarification. I will read the wiki and reach out if I have a question | 14:49 |
| rkukura | sukhdev: Look at the existing migrations for the gre and vxlan type drivers | 14:49 |
| sukhdev | rkukura, thanks I will look at them | 14:49 |
| mestery | OK, wanted to remind everyone, H3 Feature Proposal Freeze (FPF) is the end of day the 22nd. | 14:50 |
| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/FeatureProposalFreeze FPF | 14:50 |
| apech | mestery: clarification on feature freeze | 14:50 |
| mestery | Please propose your patches before then if you want them in H3. | 14:51 |
| apech | do we need our blueprints reviewed and finalized by that? | 14:51 |
| rkukura | on more topic: for now I guess any ml2 deployment does migtrations for all drivers | 14:51 |
| apech | or just have the blueprints with diffs | 14:51 |
| mestery | apech: THey need to be proposed by then, not merged. | 14:51 |
| apech | mestery: thanks! | 14:51 |
| rkukura | would be nice if we could make the migration script base this on what drivers are configured or something | 14:51 |
| mestery | apech: Sure! You guys are good, since your's is proposed already. ;) | 14:51 |
| mestery | rkukura: I thought we wanted the migration to run for all MDs initially, and we would optimize in Icehouse? | 14:52 |
| apech | haha :) | 14:52 |
| rkukura | mestery: That should be OK | 14:52 |
| mestery | OK, thanks for everyone's continued support and efforts around ML2! | 14:52 |
| apech | thanks | 14:53 |
| mestery | We're heading into the final stretch for Havana now, lets keep the momentum going! | 14:53 |
| rkukura | thanks everyone! | 14:53 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:53 |
| rcurran | thanks | 14:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 14 14:53:14 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-08-14-14.00.html | 14:53 |
| sukhdev | thanks | 14:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-08-14-14.00.txt | 14:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-08-14-14.00.log.html | 14:53 |
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| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 14 16:00:28 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| jgriffith | Hey everyone | 16:00 |
| * bswartz waves hello | 16:00 | |
| DuncanT- | Hey | 16:00 |
| eharney | hi | 16:00 |
| xyang_ | hi | 16:00 |
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| jgriffith | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:00 |
| garyk | hi | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | hey garyk | 16:01 |
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| kartikaditya | hi | 16:01 |
| kmartin | hello | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | avishay????? | 16:01 |
| jungleboyj | Hello all. | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | no avishay | 16:01 |
| garyk | jgriffith: thanks for looking at the code | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | garyk: no worries | 16:01 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | thingee: :) | 16:01 |
| tjones | hi | 16:01 |
| zhiyan | hi | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | You get to go first | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | #topic API extensions using metadata | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API extensions using metadata (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| thingee | excellent | 16:01 |
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| zhiyan | good | 16:02 |
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| thingee | so some meeting ago we spoke about storing extension data in metadata | 16:02 |
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| thingee | since extensions on optional features, having changes to model and risking columns being unused seemed to not make sense | 16:02 |
| bswartz | is this the metadata that's supposed to be for end users to tag their volumes? | 16:02 |
| bswartz | end user = tenant | 16:02 |
| zhiyan | key/value pair for the volume. | 16:02 |
| thingee | bswartz: wrt https://review.openstack.org/#/c/38322/ | 16:03 |
| zhiyan | actually, i'm agree to using 'metadata' for extension. but in this R/O volume case, i just think 'readonly' property of volume should not put into metadata but volume table/model. since for next multiple-attaching feature change, i'd like keep 'readonly' as a property for the volume, LIKE others such as 'instance_uuid', 'attach_time' and etc., those attaching related properties will all be removed to a dedicated table. | 16:03 |
| thingee | storing if a volume is readonly. Not all cases will we have backend solutions that support this. IMO, this is optional, and so I feel like the model shouldn't be changed | 16:03 |
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| thingee | otherwise you end up with columns being unused and worse of all the volume table growing :( | 16:03 |
| winston-1 | thingee: +1 | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I agree with your statements, but I'm on the fence with this particular change | 16:04 |
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| thingee | we already have other patches aiming towards this direction and we should continue this path with new stuff coming in | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | thingee: +1 | 16:04 |
| vincent_hou | zhiyan: there is a volume-acl being implementing about the readonly property | 16:04 |
| DuncanT- | Can we differentiate between what the API calls metadata and this please? | 16:05 |
| thingee | And I don't think it's zhiyan fault at all. It was discussed in a meeting, but there is no documentation about this. I think that needs to be improved and something I'm willing to take on to help people writing extensions. | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: back to the discussions about QoS | 16:05 |
| DuncanT- | I've no problem storing it in some k/v table, but volume metadata is already a thing, and I don't think changing that is a good idea | 16:05 |
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| bswartz | DuncanT-: +1 | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: not putting dedicated columns in the DB/Volume obj | 16:05 |
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| thingee | DuncanT-, jgriffith: so I think we talked about admin metadata at one point? Just can't be changed by a user | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | but using abstracted K/V's or AKA meta | 16:06 |
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| zhiyan | if you really like keep request 'readonly' save to 'metadata', i would rather remove that extension in this r/o attaching case, as avishay said, using 'update' standard api, but extension for 'readonly' flag update. | 16:06 |
| thingee | I think that would make the distinction | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | thingee: indeed | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: did my simple explanation attempt line up with your thoughts as well? | 16:06 |
| DuncanT- | jgriffith: I've no problem with the concept, I'd like to kill the name 'metadata' ASAP to avoid confusion | 16:06 |
| avishay | hi, sorry i'm late | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: I'm fine with that | 16:06 |
| thingee | DuncanT-: definitely | 16:06 |
| thingee | zhiyan: so if we ended up with using some idea of metadata, I'm with the extension having it's on change readonly flag. I think other people would agree that wouldn't belong in the volume api update | 16:07 |
| thingee | it wouldn't belong in the core api especially if it's optional | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | thingee: so that's a good distinction point IMO | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | err... "point of distinction" | 16:08 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: if it was part the volume table, I'd say leave it in core api. but in order for it to have it's only column(s) it would have to be mandatory feature. | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: yeah, I see your point | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | thingee: when I went through the patch I looked at it differently though | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: but I think what you're proposing makes perfect sense | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | ie I *did* look at it as a core feature | 16:10 |
| zhiyan | thingee: but as i mentioned above, for this case i don't think 'readonly' should be separated from volume/model, since it's a status for volume, multiple-attaching will separate them all out to a dedicated table, this will keep consistent IMO, i don't think 'readonly' save to 'metadata', and other's such as 'instance_uuid' be saved to other table is a good idea. | 16:10 |
| thingee | ok great. zhiyan I think you had one other last concern with the readonly column remaining in the volume table? | 16:10 |
| thingee | ah there it is :) | 16:10 |
| avishay | i thought it was a core feature as well...why is it optional? | 16:10 |
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| thingee | avishay: if it's not optional, it should be in the core. not in contrib. | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | thingee: well, maybe we need to figure out how to define that better | 16:11 |
| thingee | I've always wondered why in general volume actions is in contrib | 16:11 |
| thingee | admin actions rather. | 16:11 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: core features can be policy based extensions I believe | 16:11 |
| vincent_hou | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/39683/ the readonly can be defined by the permission. | 16:12 |
| avishay | thingee: i thought it should be in api/v2/volumes.py : update() | 16:12 |
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| zhiyan | thingee: ok, if so, i will remove that extension api, then to ask client use standard update api to change 'readonly' flag. | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | vincent_hou: I really don't like that direction at all | 16:12 |
| vincent_hou | by checking the permission level, you can it is readonly or not. | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | personally | 16:12 |
| zhiyan | folks, do you think is acceptable? | 16:12 |
| zhiyan | it is acceptable? | 16:12 |
| thingee | well ok step back a second. is this a core feature or not? Is every backend solution really going to be able to provide this feature? | 16:13 |
| DuncanT- | Every hypervisor can | 16:13 |
| DuncanT- | AFAICT | 16:13 |
| zhiyan | yes | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | thingee: so that's the million dollar question | 16:13 |
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| DuncanT- | Backend enforcement is a grey area | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | thingee: my thought was yes, because the hypervisor can implement it | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | BUT | 16:13 |
| hemna | mornin | 16:13 |
| avishay | i thought it was optional for drivers, but all hypervisors would support | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I'm also good with the idea of graduating later | 16:13 |
| zhiyan | if all cinder backend can support it , it will be better, but as DuncanT mentioned, hypervisor can support it. | 16:14 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: My fear with that is migrating to the volume table then. | 16:14 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: yes | 16:14 |
| avishay | zhiyan: all backends CAN'T support it | 16:14 |
| thingee | jgriffith: I feel like if we see ourselves graduating it later, we just let it be a core feature. | 16:14 |
| avishay | all hypervisors apparently can | 16:14 |
| zhiyan | avishay: i mean hypervisor, nova side, but cinder | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | thingee: hmmm | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | avishay: thingee zhiyan but the problem is that it's not implemented yet | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | ie on the nova/hypervisor side | 16:15 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: yes, i will do that | 16:15 |
| avishay | what's the chance of the nova code making havana, at least for libvirt? | 16:15 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: after this cinder server side done | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | and we're too late in the cycle to get those changes in I believe | 16:15 |
| thingee | jgriffith: so if it's not in nova, we shouldn't merge. | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: I don't think that will be possible | 16:15 |
| thingee | jgriffith: we can be ready to merge. | 16:15 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: so we need speed up to reveiw/landing, IMHO | 16:15 |
| avishay | we can merge now and if the nova code doesn't make it we can revert? | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: sure, but if there's not a bp for nova work already you're likely going to be too late | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I'd rather not | 16:16 |
| zhiyan | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/34722/2 | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | avishay: we can agree on exceptions for Cinder if need be, but not revert | 16:16 |
| thingee | avishay: I'd be fine with that if we weren't low on resources as it is for reviews that are likely to make it | 16:16 |
| avishay | jgriffith: ok | 16:16 |
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| winston-1 | if it's hypervisor, it's a state of the 'connection' to the volume instead of the state of volume itself. do we want to be able to distingish these two? | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | avishay: remember there are folks running trunk and that can make a mess for them | 16:16 |
| thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: +1 | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | winston-1: that brings up a good point | 16:17 |
| DuncanT- | Nova are refusing to merge until the cinder part is merged. If we refuse until nova merge we've a problem.... | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: I did something similar with the blocksize | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: ha! | 16:17 |
| thingee | DuncanT-: heh | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | so let's not get off track here | 16:17 |
| thingee | you merge first, no you merge first! | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | let's back up | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | first we need to decide what we *want* | 16:17 |
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| zhiyan | winston-1: we discussed this very former, 'readonly' is a status for volume, and also 'attached_mode' is for attach seesion of a volume. | 16:18 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: but... attach info is used for attach which is when r/o would be needed/checked | 16:18 |
| hemna | which it currently isn't | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | The only thing I don't like about using K/V's or connect info | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | we need some way to communicate to the tennant it's R/O | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | otherwise silly things happen | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | admin-meta may be fine, but then we're saying that's all end-user visible (not modifyable) | 16:19 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: what's 'tennant' ? sorry | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | haha... it's Read Only | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: end-user of openstack | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | Our customers :) | 16:20 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: readonly | 16:20 |
| * jgriffith thought it was funny | 16:20 | |
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| jgriffith | and so did his dog | 16:20 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: IMO, query 'readonly' status of the volume from db/model IMO.. | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: yes, understood | 16:21 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: I think we're all clear on that :) | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | I'd like input from others | 16:21 |
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| jgriffith | Specifically about it being a core function or not | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | or not core now, core later etc | 16:21 |
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| jgriffith | Unfortunately it's getting late in the cycle | 16:22 |
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| jgriffith | Nobody has an opinion there? | 16:22 |
| bswartz | as long as some backends can't support it we need to explain how those should treat R/O requests | 16:22 |
| avishay | I think if KVM supports it, and others can, it should be core. It all depends on what can realistically get into Havana. | 16:22 |
| thingee | jgriffith: if it's not going to make it into nova where they're in a ready state to merge, then we shouldn't merge. | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: hypervisor | 16:22 |
| DuncanT- | I think if we're going to support multi-attach, we need this as core at some point | 16:22 |
| hemna | at this point I think H is too late | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I agree with that | 16:22 |
| zhiyan | how about just put it in extension, but save 'readonly' to volume table but not metadata ? | 16:22 |
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| hemna | and we should plan for I | 16:22 |
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| jgriffith | zhiyan: isn't that what you already said? | 16:23 |
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| thingee | hemna: +1 | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | hemna: you give up too easy | 16:23 |
| bswartz | the hypervisor approach doesn't address volumes which are read-only on the backend and can't be made writable | 16:23 |
| thingee | :) | 16:23 |
| hemna | :P | 16:23 |
| avishay | what's the benefit of having driver support for this if all hypervisors support it? two levels of read-only? | 16:23 |
| zhiyan | jgriffith: i can remove that from extension, and ask use using standard update api. | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: ? | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: that's fairly easy to address actually | 16:23 |
| DuncanT- | avishay: Belt and braces / defense in depth? | 16:24 |
| bswartz | well the obvious solution is: don't do that, but I'm curious about a better solution | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | bswartz: indicate via the K/V structure "backend supported" | 16:24 |
| bswartz | okay | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | then if not backend: hypervisor | 16:24 |
| avishay | DuncanT-: OK | 16:24 |
| bswartz | there's a 3rd state though: backend can report r/o but backend cannot change r/o | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | Ok, it seems there's only two opinions being voiced here | 16:24 |
| avishay | DuncanT-: that's what i thought...might be a little overkill for my taste, but OK | 16:24 |
| DuncanT- | I'd suggest that if a backend can't make things writeable, it should make them R/O, but then it's a pretty weird backend even by my standards in that case | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | 1. Wait until I | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | 2. Move forward with the proposed patch | 16:25 |
| avishay | DuncanT-: 'even by my standards' :) | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | I was hoping for an option 3 | 16:25 |
| thingee | jgriffith: option 3 is store in metadata | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | yay! | 16:25 |
| thingee | and still get in for I | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | but you said the M word!! | 16:25 |
| DuncanT- | Given we need to hit the hypervisors to get this to actually work, we can't call it core until most if not all the hypervisor work is done | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | I'm not so ready to give up on H yet | 16:26 |
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| jgriffith | but I'll have to take that offline | 16:26 |
| thingee | I'll buy DuncanT- a shot everytime I say metadata. | 16:26 |
| thingee | metadata metadata metadata | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | and we need to figure out our approach before I can do anything there | 16:26 |
| avishay | haha | 16:26 |
| DuncanT- | This is going to hurt.... | 16:26 |
| hemna | I presume this would also affect brick's attach/detach support for both iSCSI and FC | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | hemna: yep | 16:26 |
| caitlin-nexenta | Sorry for jumping in late, but I'd like to ask a very basic question. What is the need to create a "read-only volume" when we have already defined snapshots? | 16:27 |
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| DuncanT- | Hmmm, given the amount of dependencies and complications arising, punt until I is growing on me | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | snapshots don't have much to do with it | 16:27 |
| hemna | DuncanT-, +1 | 16:27 |
| DuncanT- | caitlin-nexenta: You attach a snapshot | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | caitlin-nexenta: the end goal is multi-attach | 16:27 |
| DuncanT- | Gah | 16:27 |
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| jgriffith | caitlin-nexenta: starting with R/O volumes to do so | 16:27 |
| DuncanT- | *Can't* attacha snapshot | 16:27 |
| avishay | caitlin-nexenta: you can't attach snapshots | 16:27 |
| thingee | ok we're losing focus | 16:28 |
| caitlin-nexenta | But you can clone snapshots. | 16:28 |
| DuncanT- | Then they aren't read only | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | caitlin-nexenta: but then it's a volume and round and round we go :) | 16:28 |
| avishay | OK, decision time? | 16:28 |
| zhiyan | avishay: +1 | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | Who wants to leave it in teh volume table? | 16:29 |
| DuncanT- | I vote to punt until summit discussion / I | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | besides zhiyan :) | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: Not on the list | 16:29 |
| thingee | heh | 16:29 |
| zhiyan | think about next mutli-attach change | 16:29 |
| zhiyan | keep consistent | 16:29 |
| DuncanT- | "1. Wait until I" | 16:29 |
| avishay | what's the chance of the libvirt support landing in H? | 16:30 |
| hemna | :P | 16:30 |
| thingee | DuncanT-: heh | 16:30 |
| hemna | avishay, 0 if the cinder patch doesn't land first | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: I understand that point, however I'm kind of in the opinion that if that changes something drastically we address it then | 16:30 |
| hemna | we'll also need a patch to change brick to support this | 16:30 |
| zhiyan | not sure, i need time, but block on review you know | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | ok, you guys are killing me | 16:30 |
| avishay | hemna: let me rephrase...given that the cinder patch lands tomorrow, what's the chance of libvirt support in H? | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | I declare this topic dead | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I think it could get in | 16:31 |
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| hemna | avishay, hard to tell, there are over 300 outstanding reviews in nova today | 16:31 |
| avishay | so i say give it a chance | 16:31 |
| DuncanT- | If we merge an API into to cinder that flat out doesn't work, that's bad IMO | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | avishay: that's the spirit | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | Ok, moving along | 16:31 |
| DuncanT- | And that is the case if we merge before nova merge | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | zhiyan: we can chat later | 16:31 |
| thingee | jgriffith: if we do see it a core feature, can we rethinking the columns. Just looking at the model changes now seemed not straight forward from outside perspective and overlap. | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | we'll figure something out | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | thingee: you too | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I'm all for rethinking the columns | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | in fact I'm agreeing with you on that one | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | but everybody is busy arguing amongst themeselves about Nova and I etc | 16:32 |
| thingee | ok next topic | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | #topic migration | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: what's up? | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ??? | 16:33 |
| avishay | so i have patches up for cinder being able to migrate in-use volumes, and also patches for cinderclient and nova to go along with it | 16:33 |
| * jgriffith is abstaining from the cinder patch at this point | 16:33 | |
| avishay | the detached case code that was merged required drivers to implement rename_volume for migration to work, and i got rid of that | 16:33 |
| avishay | so now all drivers that have support in brick have migration for free | 16:34 |
| avishay | there are 2 dependencies though | 16:34 |
| DuncanT- | What about the none-brick ones? | 16:34 |
| hemna | avishay, nice | 16:34 |
| avishay | DuncanT-: online migration via libvirt will work, but cinder can't copy data for detached if brick doesn't support | 16:35 |
| avishay | DuncanT-: they can override the copy function though | 16:35 |
| DuncanT- | avishay: Cheers | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | avishay: maybe you should clarify by "brick" | 16:35 |
| avishay | brick attach/detach code | 16:35 |
| avishay | so iSCSI and FC is there, NFS and others is not | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | avishay: aka iscsi/fc | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:35 |
| caitlin-nexenta | avishay - can a storage vendor optimize migration for their devices? | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | thanks | 16:35 |
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| avishay | caitlin-nexenta: yes - see here https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41046/ | 16:36 |
| avishay | so i have 2 dependencies | 16:36 |
| hemna | so we need connectors for nfs, iser, aoe, etc then | 16:36 |
| avishay | 1. eharney and i are working out how to interface with novaclient | 16:36 |
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| avishay | hemna: aoe is submmitted | 16:36 |
| bswartz | hemna: I'm doing a nfs one | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | iser is in too IIRC | 16:36 |
| hemna | ok excellent | 16:36 |
| avishay | 2. i need help from thingee on this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40857/ | 16:36 |
| hemna | if you guys need help on the connectors...I'm here. | 16:37 |
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| avishay | but the code is ready for whoever is interested to test, and for everyone to review | 16:37 |
| winston-1 | anyone works on RBD for brick? | 16:37 |
| winston-1 | dosaboy: ? | 16:37 |
| winston-1 | jdurgin: ? | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: that model doesn't really *fit* | 16:37 |
| dosaboy | winston-1: how imment is it needed? | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | winston-1: but maybe dosaboy ? | 16:38 |
| dosaboy | I am happy to work on it | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | ha | 16:38 |
| dosaboy | got a fair bit on already | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | dosaboy: this week :) | 16:38 |
| dosaboy | eeeek | 16:38 |
| avishay | RBD can override the driver's copy_volume_data (or whatever it's called) function with a simple 'cp' to get detached migration working | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | avishay: to clarify again though, you're talking migrate to same back-end right? | 16:38 |
| avishay | jgriffith: absolutely not :) | 16:39 |
| hemna | avishay, what do you mean by detatched migration? detached from a VM ? | 16:39 |
| dosaboy | avishay: can I ping you tomorrow on this? | 16:39 |
| avishay | hemna: yes | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | avishay: so LVM --> RBD | 16:39 |
| avishay | dosaboy: sure | 16:39 |
| hemna | ok | 16:39 |
| dosaboy | thx | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | avishay: and the reverse as well? | 16:39 |
| avishay | jgriffith: LVM vg A to LVM vg B, or LVM to storwize to RBD to whatever | 16:39 |
| avishay | jgriffith: two different cinder backends, no matter what the type | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | avishay: k, last time we chatted I thought that was NOT the case | 16:40 |
| med_ | nod. | 16:40 |
| avishay | jgriffith: yes it was | 16:40 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: hmmm | 16:40 |
| winston-1 | avishay: nice! | 16:40 |
| avishay | jgriffith: you asked what the difference between miration and clone was | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | avishay: ? | 16:40 |
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| hemna | eventually it would be nice to see if the backend had hints on migration. some backends can move volume between themselves to avoid the dd/cp over the network. | 16:40 |
| avishay | jgriffith: clone is specifically in the same back-end, migration is moving the volume somewhere else | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I'm fully aware of what clone is thanks | 16:41 |
| avishay | hemna: drivers have the option to do it themselves | 16:41 |
| hemna | avishay, ok, are there hints to the driver that let it know what the destination is ? | 16:41 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i'm just saying that's what you asked last time | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | avishay: no, it's not but that's ok | 16:41 |
| avishay | hemna: the driver gets the name of the host and its capabilities | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | avishay: doesn't matter so long as I was wrong :) | 16:41 |
| avishay | jgriffith: yeesh... you also said you were a smart ass :) | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | whoooo... meeeee? | 16:42 |
| hemna | say moving from one 3par to another 3par. my driver can instruct the 3pars to do the work between themselves | 16:42 |
| * jgriffith thinks somebody is impersonating him | 16:42 | |
| avishay | hemna: see here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41046/ | 16:42 |
| hemna | avishay, thn | 16:42 |
| hemna | thnx | 16:42 |
| caitlin-nexenta | avishay - do you have a summary of the assumptions your patch is making. For example, are you assuming that copying the volume data is always a full copy? | 16:42 |
| avishay | caitlin-nexenta: yes, moving the entire volume from "here" to "there" | 16:43 |
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| avishay | the interface is: cinder migrate <volume-id> <destination host> [--force-host-copy True] | 16:43 |
| avishay | The force-host-copy flag can be used to disable a driver's optimized version and use cinder/nova to copy | 16:44 |
| avishay | In case of a driver bug, for example, your data isn't stuck | 16:44 |
| caitlin-nexenta | Some storage servers have the ability to create what is effectively a remote thin clone, and be very lazy about how complete the migration is. What would we have to do to preserve that capability for our servers? | 16:44 |
| avishay | caitlin-nexenta: i think we should take that offline | 16:44 |
| caitlin-nexenta | No problem. | 16:45 |
| avishay | jgriffith: we good? | 16:45 |
| hemna | avishay, I'd like to ping you offline about this as well to better understand my optimized mechanism as well. | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | I'm good | 16:45 |
| avishay | hemna: no problem | 16:45 |
| avishay | hemna: if you review my patch you will understand it ;) | 16:45 |
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| hemna | I'm reading through it now thanks | 16:46 |
| winston-1 | avishay: :) | 16:46 |
| avishay | but seriously, will be happy to help anyone who needs more understanding, and will work on docs as well | 16:46 |
| avishay | oh, one more thing | 16:46 |
| avishay | _ seems to be missing, and that's why the patch isn't passing py26 and py27 | 16:47 |
| avishay | any idea where it went? | 16:47 |
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| avishay | guess not | 16:49 |
| avishay | hello? anybody home? | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | avishay: have you rebased | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I'll have a look at your patch later and see if I can help out there | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | avishay: it's likely related to some pulls from OSLO | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | avishay: but the fact that other patches are going through makes me wonder if a rebase would handle it | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | anything else? | 16:49 |
| ZChao | I have a patch for huawei driver: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/36294/ | 16:50 |
| avishay | wow i just got all your messages at once...strange | 16:50 |
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| hemna | lagged | 16:50 |
| kartikaditya | jgriffith: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41600/ posted vmdk driver couple of APIs | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | avishay: that happened last night too | 16:50 |
| avishay | jgriffith: will try to rebase - thanks | 16:50 |
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| jgriffith | whoaaaa there folks | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | kk | 16:52 |
| winston-1 | avishay: freenode is lagging very badly | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | avishay: nothing else? | 16:52 |
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| ZChao | hope anyone instrested in this could find time to review | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | #topic other stuff | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | Ok, now the free-for all | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | but PLEASE | 16:52 |
| * med_ lost his connection | 16:52 | |
| jgriffith | don't ask "review my patch" | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | we're all painfully aware of what's in the queue | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | NO offense... just sayin | 16:52 |
| garyk | jgriffith: :) | 16:52 |
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| ZChao | ok,i understand | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | alright... if nobody has anything else? | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | remember proposal freeze next week (21'st) | 16:52 |
| caitlin-nexenta | Is there a good document anywhere that summarizes the philosophy of what a snaphshot, backup, etc. should be used for? | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | caitlin-nexenta: there are some comments on Victors patch if you guys can get to it | 16:52 |
| avishay | my connection sucks, i'm dropping off | 16:52 |
| avishay | bye all | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | I can explain the multi-backend stuff if needed | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | caitlin-nexenta: other than it's pretty much good to go | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | alright... | 16:53 |
| dosaboy | caitlin-nexenta: i have a task open to update the docs on backups | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | thanks everyone | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | #end meeting | 16:53 |
| jungleboyj | Later. | 16:53 |
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| bswartz | jgriffith: #endmeeting is one word | 16:54 |
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| jgriffith | #endmeeting | 16:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:54 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 14 16:54:12 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-08-14-16.00.html | 16:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-08-14-16.00.txt | 16:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-08-14-16.00.log.html | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: every week :) | 16:54 |
| dosaboy | hehe | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: just seeing if you're still looking out for me ;) | 16:54 |
| bswartz | hah | 16:54 |
| bswartz | as least you're consistent | 16:54 |
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| * hartsocks getting ready for VMwareAPI meeting in a moment. | 16:56 | |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting VMwareAPI | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 14 17:00:51 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:00 |
| hartsocks | greetings stackers! | 17:00 |
| hartsocks | Who's around to talk VMwareAPI stuffs? | 17:01 |
| garyk | hi guys | 17:01 |
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| tjones | hi | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | anyone else? | 17:02 |
| danwent | hi | 17:02 |
| hartsocks | kirankv: ping | 17:02 |
| danwent | was anyone from vmware at the cinder meeting? | 17:02 |
| tjones | yes, kartik gary and i were there | 17:03 |
| hartsocks | yaguang: ping | 17:03 |
| hartsocks | danwent: not on my calendar. | 17:04 |
| danwent | tjones: awesome, thanks | 17:04 |
| danwent | hartsocks: we don't need everyone there, i was just making sure that we had a representative | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | danwent: cool | 17:04 |
| tjones | hartsocks: don't think we all need to attend ;-) - yeah what dan said | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | okay… so do we want to get started? | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | #topic bugs | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:06 | |
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| hartsocks | #link http://goo.gl/pTcDG | 17:06 |
| garyk | hartsocks: its not bugs, just features | 17:06 |
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| hartsocks | (I shortened the link, it's a long thing) | 17:06 |
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| hartsocks | So I've got only 3 things left to triage. | 17:07 |
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| hartsocks | Most of these I'm waiting for confirmation or more info to help reproduce. | 17:07 |
| hartsocks | Anyone have a pet bug they need to trot out? | 17:07 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=vmware | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | We have one "Critical" bug open: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1207064 | 17:09 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1207064 in nova "VMWare : Disabling linked clone does not cache images on the datastore" [Critical,In progress] | 17:09 |
| tjones | im working on that | 17:09 |
| hartsocks | I'm not 100% sure this is "Critical" since the "work-around" is "use_linked_clone=True" | 17:09 |
| danwent | yeah, i had the same reaction | 17:09 |
| tjones | well - and it does work - it just copies again | 17:09 |
| tjones | it's more of a performance improvement IMO | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | General consensus is bump this down to "High"? | 17:10 |
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| hartsocks | no objection? | 17:10 |
| * hartsocks clicks button. | 17:11 | |
| garyk | hartsocks: your patch set should solve this issue. correct? | 17:11 |
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| hartsocks | garyk: actually, it exposed the issue in test. The patch is about allowing override behaviors. A customer asked for the ability to control when linked_clone behavior was used. | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | garyk: we discussed the feature a while ago. | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | garyk: in general, I admit the idea is a bit confusing. | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | garyk: I've tried to do a better job of explaining what needs to happen in the code itself. | 17:12 |
| tjones | the issue is when use_linked_clone is false the image is allways streamed to the instance directory instead of checking vmware_base and copying it there | 17:12 |
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| tjones | copying it from vmware_base to the instance directory and saving the network bandwidth | 17:13 |
| garyk | hartsocks: understood. | 17:14 |
| hartsocks | yep. So the *bug* is that use_linked_clone = False … does not mean ... | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | … do not use cache = True | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | The idea of caching is a separate concern. | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | We might want to allow an optional config to tweak caching behavior somehow... | 17:15 |
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| hartsocks | but that's not what used_linked_clone is about. | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | And... | 17:16 |
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| hartsocks | That's not something to tackle in Havana. The deadlines are too close. | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | Any other questions on this topic? | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | … okay ... | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | I think most people are heads-down right now anyhow. | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | I'll point out we have 9 "High" priority bugs in "In Progress" state right now. And one in "Confirmed" state. That implies we have a lot of people cranking away on the driver. | 17:18 |
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| hartsocks | I've identified these bugs as "fix soon" (but not necessarily higher priority than "High" | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30822/ - merged! | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33100/ - needs +2s | 17:20 |
| tjones | hurrah! | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40029/ - needs help and discussion | 17:21 |
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| tjones | i was hoping dims would be here. i've got some questions on it | 17:21 |
| tjones | "it" being  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40029/ | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | I've picked these out based on which ones support a customer critical use cases. (Thanks to danwent BTW for helping highlight these.) | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | tjones: let me try and ping him… 1 sec | 17:22 |
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| tjones | doesn't look like he's online - at least not in the other rooms | 17:22 |
| hartsocks | yep | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | oh well. | 17:23 |
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| hartsocks | #action someone follow up with dims on https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1206584 | 17:23 |
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| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1206584 in nova "VMware ESX and vSphere drivers do not support config drive" [High,In progress] | 17:23 |
| garyk | hartsocks: i am on that one | 17:24 |
| hartsocks | Thanks. | 17:24 |
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| hartsocks | I have a backlog of 22 reviews / VMwareAPI help to give. But these three are the higher priority ones. | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | I'll start adding your names to reviews I need help on. | 17:25 |
| tjones | gr8 | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | With that I think bugs are put to bed. | 17:26 |
| garyk | hartsocks: i think that it would be great if everyone jumps in on the reviews | 17:26 |
| garyk | there are quite a few open | 17:26 |
| garyk | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/message:vmware+OR+message:vcenter+OR+message:vsphere+OR+message:esx+OR+message:vcdriver+OR+message:datastore,n,z | 17:26 |
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| hartsocks | I'v opened a number of documentation bugs and I'm trying to close some of the most pressing this week. I'll be back on reviews by week's end. | 17:26 |
| tjones | im spending much of my time on reviews this week | 17:27 |
| hartsocks | garyk: nice query | 17:27 |
| hartsocks | okay. | 17:27 |
| garyk | hartsocks; i thought you wrote it :). guess danwent maybe | 17:27 |
| hartsocks | garyk: I don't remember half of what I write these days :-/ | 17:28 |
| garyk | :) | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | garyk: Probably danwent. I've been using a python script that deep links and reads the tags off of the connected blueprint or bug report. | 17:28 |
| hartsocks | garyk: it's too shoddily written to share... | 17:29 |
| garyk | please note that we have 2 in the queue for the stable grizzly and i guess that there may be more when some of the aforemntioned reviews get through | 17:29 |
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| hartsocks | grayk: can you mention them here quickly for the record before we move to blueprints? | 17:30 |
| garyk | hartsocks: sure | 17:30 |
| garyk | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41657/ | 17:30 |
| garyk | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40359/ (this is -2 at the moment as the pacth int he master has yet to be approved - it was posted so that we can test it with the stable branch) | 17:31 |
| garyk | that is the stable branch stuff. we can move on now. | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | #action reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41657/ | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | #action reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40359/ | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | #action reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/33100/ (fixes host stats from earlier) | 17:32 |
| hartsocks | #topic blueprints | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:32 | |
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| hartsocks | Okay. So we have 5 blueprints that are our priority for Havana-3 | 17:32 |
| hartsocks | The rule is, you *must* have code posted and reviewed by August 22nd. | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | So, I wanted to be sure that all 5 of these got into the state where people had a lot of +1s on these and no −1s. | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | We had a few blueprints who's code was in −2 abandoned state. | 17:34 |
| hartsocks | But, as of this AM everything is in need of reviews. | 17:34 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/multiple-clusters-managed-by-one-service | 17:34 |
| hartsocks | #action reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/30282/ | 17:34 |
| hartsocks | This is Kiran's change. He's a very busy fellow. | 17:35 |
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| hartsocks | It is also our most important blueprint as it makes the driver *much* easier to use. | 17:35 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-nova-cinder-support | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | This has two reviews: | 17:36 |
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| hartsocks | #action reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40105/ | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | #action reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40245/ | 17:36 |
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| hartsocks | … this might be the fastest blueprint-to-code-to-merge I've seen on this driver since April. Most things take at least 2 months to get through review. | 17:37 |
| tjones | go gary! | 17:37 |
| danwent | :) | 17:37 |
| garyk | hartsocks: there is also https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41387/ (this is the boot from volume - this is pending cinder support at the moment) we are working on that in parallel | 17:37 |
| garyk | i need to make up for the fact that i run very slow | 17:38 |
| hartsocks | *lol* | 17:38 |
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| hartsocks | I've added that review to my list of things to keep a close eye on. | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | #action reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41387/ | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | I have some other good news ... | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/vmware-vmdk-cinder-driver | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | We have a cinder driver out there... | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | #action reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41600/ | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | AND it has code posted for review! | 17:40 |
| hartsocks | Woo! | 17:40 |
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| hartsocks | But, this is in the Cinder project, not in Nova in case anyone reading the notes later is confused. (I think everyone here knows this already). | 17:41 |
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| hartsocks | I think if the next two blueprints fall off, we're okay but they are still targeted for Havana-3 so I've not left them out. | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/improve-vmware-disk-usage | 17:42 |
| garyk | hartsocks: i need to head on home. i'll be on line later. have a good one guyys and sorry for bailing early | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | Which has review: | 17:42 |
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| hartsocks | garky: thanks for hanging out gary! | 17:42 |
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| hartsocks | #action reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37659/ | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | … this blueprint allows for dynamic resizing of VMDK based on the flavor. Ephemeral disk issues came up and as part of making this work a change to the ephemeral disk code was made that should hopefully fix the issue. This was recently revised. | 17:44 |
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| hartsocks | Work on this feature exposed some bugs in that "use_linked_clone" flag's behavior. | 17:45 |
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| hartsocks | It also exposed the fact that we didn't offer the ability to tune the linked_clone driver behaviors. This was mentioned by some customers on a phone call … way back in June IIRC… and brought up in this meeting. | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | So... | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/vmware-image-clone-strategy | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | #action reviews for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/37819/ | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | I wrote that as a very simple patch to allow people to override. It should have been very very simple, but just allowing for the control exposed other issues. | 17:47 |
| hartsocks | So that covers it. | 17:47 |
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| tjones | i hope that gets in - it's a pain to have to restart nova when you want a different behavior | 17:47 |
| hartsocks | Thanks. :-) That's the idea. | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | #topic open discussion | 17:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:48 | |
| hartsocks | I assume most folks are heads-down. I'm seeing lots of review activity and email activity outside IRC right now. | 17:49 |
| tjones | so you asked me to write a BP on "detecting" the storage adaptor based on the vmdk - this came up in the context of ide vs lsilogic with thin disks. It turns out it's not possible to programatically detect this from the vmdk file. I would have to try lsilogic and if it fails to boot, try ide. This sounds really hacky to me. Wouldn't the customer normally know what kind of storage adaptor they have with the image? | 17:50 |
| hartsocks | tjones: yeah. I agree. So I guess this turns out to be a documentation/education issue. | 17:51 |
| tjones | actaully if this image is a monolothicSparse type you can ask the metat-data is at the top of the file - but that's only 1 of the many types we support. I did add to the documentation more info on image types to cover this confusing issue | 17:52 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bugs?field.searchtext=vmware&search=Search+Bug+Reports&field.scope=project&field.scope.target=openstack-manuals | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | Lookit all the docs whot need wrote! | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1212310 | 17:54 |
| tjones | ugh | 17:54 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1212310 in openstack-manuals "vmware documentation needed: use of VMDK working types with OpenStack" [Undecided,New] | 17:54 |
| tjones | yeah what i wrote is for thick vs thin but i didn't get into sparse | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | worms. can of. | 17:54 |
| tjones | ja | 17:55 |
| hartsocks | So I've started tagging the documentation bugs. Hopefully we can find some folks to work on documentation. It's so bad right now it's sort of a crisis. | 17:55 |
| tjones | i don't fully understand how sparse would work with glance. Isn't sparse multiple files? | 17:56 |
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| tjones | after vmworld many we can each take a couple and knock them out. Won't be as nice as a doc person since none of us are doc people | 17:56 |
| hartsocks | tjones: that's part of it… we might have to invent a zip archive type to handle it… or just use OVA what's puzzling is there's code in the driver to handle "sparse" but I have no idea how it would ever be executed. | 17:57 |
| tjones | you can say "sparse" but it really just means "thin" | 17:57 |
| tjones | it would not work. i think we will need a zip format for ovf too | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | … and there's the confusion. "sparse" is not "thin" | 17:58 |
| tjones | i know - but the code does not | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | ah, a new bug. | 17:58 |
| tjones | the code does not know that | 17:58 |
| tjones | yes - basically sparse would not work as written | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | tada | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | *failure* | 17:58 |
| tjones | i guess none of our customers are wanting sparse | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | Well. | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | I don't see how we could even support it without OVA the OVF support is only half way there. | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | We're out of time. | 17:59 |
| tjones | i thnk we should focus on ova personally | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | I'll be over on #openstack-vmware in about 5 minutes. | 18:00 |
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| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 14 18:00:56 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-08-14-17.00.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-08-14-17.00.txt | 18:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-08-14-17.00.log.html | 18:01 |
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| shardy | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 14 20:00:24 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is shardy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| shardy | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| radix | hello hello | 20:00 |
| bgorski | o/ | 20:00 |
| sdake_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| asalkeld | o/ | 20:01 |
| zaneb | howdy y'all | 20:01 |
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| bnemec | \o | 20:01 |
| spzala | HEllo | 20:01 |
| funzo | hello | 20:01 |
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| tspatzier | Hi | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | \o | 20:02 |
| jasond | hi | 20:02 |
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| mhagedorn | hi | 20:02 |
| shardy | SpamapS, therve around? | 20:02 |
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| shardy | Ok hi all, lets get started | 20:03 |
| radix | I think therve's on vacation | 20:03 |
| shardy | radix: Ok, cool, thanks | 20:03 |
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| shardy | #topic Review last week's actions | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:03 | |
| zaneb | tomorrow is a holiday in most of Europe | 20:03 |
| shardy | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-08-07-20.00.html | 20:04 |
| randallburt | hi all | 20:04 |
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| shardy | zaneb: it is? doh, not in the UK! ;( | 20:04 |
| shardy | Don't see any actions, anyone have anything to raise from last week? | 20:04 |
| zaneb | shardy: only in the Catholic parts ;) | 20:04 |
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| zaneb | shardy: yes, mission statement | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | we still busy with that? | 20:05 |
| shardy | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/heat-mission | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | wow, over cooking it | 20:05 |
| sdake_ | imo doesn't need to be this complicated ;) | 20:05 |
| shardy | asalkeld: yeah, agreed | 20:05 |
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| shardy | zaneb: what did you want to raise, other than we still need to put it somewhere? | 20:06 |
| zaneb | not suggesting that we need to discuss it again here, just that it's time to post it | 20:06 |
| radix | huh. I think I lagged out for a bit | 20:06 |
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| shardy | zaneb: OK, I was going to previously but the discussion was still in progress so I left it and was out last week | 20:07 |
| shardy | #action shardy to post mission statement | 20:07 |
| stevebaker | stick a fork in it, its done | 20:07 |
| shardy | Ok, anything else from last week? | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | nope | 20:08 |
| andrew_plunk | I was wondering the status of the "heat config" bug, but I can figure that out in #heat later | 20:08 |
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| shardy | #topic Reminder re Havana_Release_Schedule FeatureProposalFreeze | 20:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder re Havana_Release_Schedule FeatureProposalFreeze (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:08 | |
| shardy | So the feature proposal freeze was agreed as Aug 23 | 20:08 |
| shardy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Havana_Release_Schedule | 20:08 |
| shardy | So we've all got just over a week to get our stuff posted for review, then a couple of weeks to get it reviewed and merged | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | I'm waiting on various tempest/devstack/dib things, so unless somebody wants a hand with something I might take a look at Horizon | 20:09 |
| shardy | Anything which won't be posted by the 23rd will be bumped to Icehouse, so speak now if that's likely ;) | 20:09 |
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| shardy | which brings us to: | 20:10 |
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| shardy | #topic h3 blueprint status | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | when you say posted you mean patches or bp? | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "h3 blueprint status (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:10 | |
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| shardy | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/havana-3 | 20:10 |
| shardy | asalkeld: It's patches must be posted AIUI, as in propose the change? | 20:11 |
| radix | I'll try to keep up on reviews a bit every day | 20:11 |
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| shardy | way too late for new BPs now IMO | 20:11 |
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| shardy | we've got 28 BPs, about half done - I'm hoping heat-trusts will land but gated on keystoneclient | 20:13 |
| shardy | sdake will the nova native resource BP land? | 20:13 |
| sdake_ | hopefully - been busy with openshifty stuff | 20:13 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/native-nova-instance | 20:13 |
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| stevebaker | sdake_ I'm happy to help with that if you like | 20:14 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/heat-trusts | 20:14 |
| shardy | Yeah, be best if that doesn't get deferred IMO | 20:14 |
| sdake_ | stevebaker atm i have to abandon my openshift work to make the 23rd deadline for that above blueprint | 20:14 |
| sdake_ | i'll point you at my wip for rhel dib support | 20:14 |
| shardy | sdake: Happy to reassign to stevebaker then? | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | not so interested in that ;) | 20:14 |
| sdake_ | i've got a few patches merged already | 20:15 |
| sdake_ | either way works for me | 20:15 |
| sdake_ | what do you prefer stevebaker | 20:15 |
| sdake_ | both need to get done soon | 20:15 |
| stevebaker | i wouldn't mind working on native instance | 20:15 |
| sdake_ | ok assign to yourself then | 20:15 |
| stevebaker | ok | 20:15 |
| radix | does anyone know what else needs to happen for https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/instance-resize-update-stack ? I see that it had a patchset merged | 20:16 |
| shardy | tspatzier: some stuff has landed for hot-specification, how much more is planned? | 20:16 |
| shardy | tspatzier: It's still "Started" atm | 20:16 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/hot-specification | 20:16 |
| shardy | radix: IIRC therve posted a patch and it's marked as Implemented, so done? | 20:17 |
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| spzala | shardy: Seems like tspatzier is not here.. I will follow up with him | 20:17 |
| radix | well, the bp isn't marked as complete. I guess I'll just ask him when he gets back | 20:18 |
| shardy | spzala: OK, thanks | 20:18 |
| tspatzier | shardy, sorry, was distracted for a moment | 20:18 |
| spzala | shardy: no problem! | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | does anyone need the rest api for this? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/provider-upload | 20:18 |
| shardy | radix: It's marked as Implemented? | 20:18 |
| shardy | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/instance-resize-update-stack | 20:18 |
| shardy | Completed by | 20:18 |
| shardy | Thomas Herve on 2013-08-06 | 20:18 |
| radix | oh. | 20:18 |
| tspatzier | shanks, so for hot-specification I guess there won't be much more in havana, since we will only document was is implemented. | 20:18 |
| radix | shardy: ok, never mind, I assumed everything in the list that I was looking at was still open | 20:18 |
| spzala | tspatzier: oh you are here :), cool. | 20:19 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: I don't think we should have a ReST API for that | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | mark as done? | 20:19 |
| shardy | tspatzier: Ok, if you're happy, please move to Implemented so we know there aren't more patches pending | 20:19 |
| tspatzier | shardy, so if you are ok with that direction that hot-specification is only the initial sub-set of HOT we did in havana, we could close it | 20:19 |
| tspatzier | sure, will do | 20:19 |
| shardy | tspatzier: Ok, sounds good | 20:20 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: it would be cool if we had the thing that will allow the client to automatically stick relevant files in the files section... dunno if that should go in that blueprint | 20:20 |
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| stevebaker | that already happens for env registry stuff | 20:21 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Yeah, IIRC the API thing was a historical idea? | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, yea maybe I can do that - just for ever reworking cw stuff | 20:21 |
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| shardy | Anyone else need work, or need to get rid of work for h3 before we move on? | 20:22 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: this stuff: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-May/009551.html | 20:22 |
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| stevebaker | ja? | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | ah | 20:23 |
| shardy | #topic Open discussion | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:23 | |
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| shardy | Anyone have anything to mention? | 20:24 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: genau | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | shardy probably need to chat about that Policy now returning a url | 20:24 |
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| asalkeld | I chatted to zaneb about it and that seeemed the best solution | 20:24 |
| asalkeld | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/41855/ | 20:25 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Yeah, so both you and therve have posted patches with compatibility stuff, which pollutes the AWS resources with native stuff, or vice-versa | 20:25 |
| shardy | are we happy this is the way to do? | 20:25 |
| shardy | s/do/go? | 20:25 |
| shardy | considering when we release it in Havana, we'll probably be stuck maintaining it.. | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | the problem is when you compose the alarm with template | 20:25 |
| asalkeld | you can't reference the policy from the nested stack | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | so the url solves that | 20:26 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Ok, and I guess because it's just the result of the Ref, it's not actually a template-level incompatibility with cfn | 20:26 |
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| sdake | funzo had a question for asalkeld about alarms wrt the reworked cloudwatch stuff and openshift | 20:27 |
| shardy | If it's been discussed already then fair enough, I just saw it and wanted a sanity-check discussion ;) | 20:27 |
| asalkeld | I like the cw as a template, but if you guys are very against that I can make a plugin for the ceilometer CW | 20:27 |
| zaneb | I don't hate this idea | 20:28 |
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| zaneb | scaling policy seems like one of the less important Refs to maintain consistency with | 20:28 |
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| asalkeld | hopefully we will have a better autoscaling story soon | 20:29 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Where I was coming from is just that we want ideally to continue moving in a direction which decouples us from the AWSisms, rather than baking an unholy mixture of AWS-compatible and native resources ;) | 20:29 |
| zaneb | yeah, whatever happened to the separate autoscaling api? | 20:29 |
| radix | zaneb: gradually getting there :) | 20:29 |
| asalkeld | well we need a native autoscaling resource | 20:30 |
| radix | I'm also working vaguely around it. hence my work on InstanceGroup and tinkering with ResourceGroup | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | cool, radix getting there | 20:30 |
| funzo | sdake: is this the forum to discuss what openshift would like to be able to do with autoscaling? | 20:30 |
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| shardy | asalkeld: Yeah, we need native all-the-things, but those should be clean native implementations, eventually with the AWS-compatible stuff built on top? | 20:30 |
| sdake | funzo think its appropriate to ask if what you want can be serviced by asalkeld's new work | 20:30 |
| radix | given the 7-week freeze I've decided to refocus a bit, hopefully we can get things rolling quickly after unfreeze | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | funzo, chat to radix | 20:30 |
| asalkeld | (off line) | 20:31 |
| funzo | asalkeld: ok | 20:31 |
| zaneb | radix: cool :) | 20:31 |
| asalkeld | radix, we are all looking forward to the new autoscaling:) | 20:31 |
| radix | yay :) | 20:31 |
| sdake | asalkeld the issue is around alarms not around autoscaling | 20:31 |
| jasond | regarding the multi-engine bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1211276, if anybody has feedback about https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1211276/comments/8 please let me know | 20:31 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1211276 in heat "can't cancel wedged stack-create" [High,Confirmed] | 20:32 |
| radix | zaneb: wanna make sure we have all of your use cases so we don't take it in the wrong direction | 20:32 |
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| sdake | asalkeld i believe funzo wants to pass a parameter to an alarm | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | i put my recollection of the Portland channels discussion in there | 20:32 |
| shardy | funzo: want to give us a summary of your issue, or maybe ping a mail to the list where we can discuss it? | 20:32 |
| radix | zaneb, asalkeld: we're probably going to be implement Heat resources for Otter which will give us a better idea of how the native autoscaling API will work | 20:33 |
| shardy | better than individual discussions IMO | 20:33 |
| funzo | shardy: sure | 20:33 |
| radix | there was one other thing... let me think... | 20:33 |
| radix | oh, right, InstanceGroup. we need a way to control it from the API | 20:33 |
| funzo | shardy: I wrote up a document of what I would like to be able to do from openshift here https://github.com/openshift/openshift-pep/blob/master/openshift-pep-007.md | 20:34 |
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| radix | has there been any thought on the ability to patch subsections of the template? If we have an external autoscaling service that's controlling an InstanceGroup in Heat, we need to change the "Size" of the InstanceGroup from that autoscaling service | 20:35 |
| radix | literally just that one property on that one resource | 20:35 |
| shardy | radix: You just do a stack update | 20:35 |
| funzo | shardy: radix: it would require being able to invoke a scale-up/scale-down using a tool from within the openshift infrastructure. that call would need be able to pass parameters to specify user data | 20:35 |
| radix | shardy: right but download/change/update can lead to consistency errors | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | shardy but then you have to send the whole template | 20:35 |
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| funzo | I'll follow up with you guys offline | 20:36 |
| radix | asalkeld: right exactly. | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | radix seems like a good change | 20:36 |
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| radix | what happens if two actors are doing fetch/change/update, too? | 20:36 |
| radix | they can stomp on each other | 20:36 |
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| shardy | funzo: thanks for the info, will read and we can have a followup discussion | 20:36 |
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| radix | in general IMO UpdateStack should be something that users do when they want to change something manually in their stack, but the size of an InstanceGroup has a different feel to it. is that not right? | 20:37 |
| radix | I mean, InstanceGroup's "Size" property | 20:37 |
| shardy | asalkeld: I thought we'd had this discussion recently, where we decided that allowing per-resource stack creation (or update) was a bad-idea (tm) | 20:37 |
| radix | but I can also imagine a PATCH for a stack | 20:37 |
| asalkeld | shardy that's just an update | 20:38 |
| radix | which would be isomorphic to stack-update | 20:38 |
| shardy | Ok, so just update, not a piecemeal create | 20:38 |
| radix | right, exactly | 20:38 |
| radix | I brought up "resource-create" a while ago and that was shot down | 20:38 |
| radix | this is subtly different :) | 20:38 |
| zaneb | so it's an update, but Heat does the remixing of the template itself | 20:38 |
| zaneb | ? | 20:38 |
| radix | zaneb: yes | 20:38 |
| radix | imagine "replace *this* element in the template with *this* template snippet" | 20:39 |
| shardy | I'm not sure what real advantage it has, other than a tiny simplification to some dict mangling on the user side | 20:39 |
| radix | scoping all the way down to individual properties | 20:39 |
| asalkeld | lots of data | 20:39 |
| radix | shardy: well, like I said, consistency | 20:39 |
| radix | lots of data too, but consistency moreso | 20:39 |
| radix | if you have two actors downloading/changing/updating two different parts of the stack, they can stomp on each other | 20:40 |
| shardy | radix: It's much easier to keep a consistent stack definition if you have one template, rather than something in a random state after a bazillion resource updates over time | 20:40 |
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| zaneb | I don't think anything else in Heat is consistent | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | haha | 20:40 |
| zaneb | if you kill your nova servers, heat won't know about it | 20:40 |
| zaneb | solution: don't do that | 20:40 |
| zaneb | sorted. | 20:40 |
| shardy | radix: use git for your templates | 20:40 |
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| andrew_plunk | right now an error is raised if you try to update while a stack is in update not complete I believe | 20:40 |
| radix | right but this use case is intrinsically dynamic | 20:40 |
| radix | remember, autoscale service controlling an InstanceGroup | 20:41 |
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| radix | this isn't something that a user is doing manually | 20:41 |
| zaneb | radix: you are talking about read/modify/update... but why read? | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | well patch is a well know/used way of doing an update - don't see the problem with it | 20:41 |
| radix | zaneb: how do you know what to send to update? | 20:41 |
| zaneb | the AS service knows what outcome it wants, just generate the right template and update | 20:41 |
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| shardy | radix: but you're not changing the dynamic behaviour, just the definition used to perform it, or the limits | 20:41 |
| radix | zaneb: oh, I think I haven't explained it properly | 20:42 |
| radix | zaneb: so, look at InstanceGroup right now. all you have to do is change the "Size" Property and it adjusts the underlying nested stack as appropriate | 20:42 |
| zaneb | radix: I think you're talking about having all of the state in Heat and none in AS, even though it's AS that's calling Heat | 20:42 |
| shardy | radix: maybe do a wiki page, and start a ML thread? | 20:42 |
| radix | it's actually already there in the wiki page :) | 20:42 |
| zaneb | link? | 20:43 |
| radix | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/AutoScaling | 20:43 |
| shardy | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/AutoScaling | 20:43 |
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| radix | it doesn't actually propose the specifics how AS controls the InstanceGroup, but it mentions that it needs to be solved | 20:43 |
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| radix | I can start a mailing list thread | 20:44 |
| shardy | radix: I've said this before, but I think we just need a policy resource which is generic and has hooks to call out to (or be signalled by) a policy-calculation service | 20:45 |
| shardy | ie something which sits between ceilometer and the InstanceGroup | 20:45 |
| radix | ah, actually it says something about some webhook or whatever, but I think that can change :) | 20:45 |
| * stevebaker has to go | 20:46 | |
| radix | shardy: hm. I don't think I've ever heard the idea of a "policy resource" | 20:46 |
| radix | I have heard the phrase "policy service" but it has never been clear to me | 20:46 |
| zaneb | you mean like AWS::AutoScaling::ScalingPolicy? | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | well you always need a resource for the template to use | 20:46 |
| radix | I understand ScalingPolicy :) | 20:46 |
| radix | I *guess* I can imagine the autoscaling service directly doing an UpdateStack on the *nested* stack | 20:47 |
| shardy | zaneb: Yeah, but the whole premise of this AS service thing seems to be that folks want to plug something other than that in | 20:47 |
| radix | but so far I had been imagining it would just update the "Size" of the InstanceGroup in the *parent* stack | 20:47 |
| zaneb | radix: ooooooh. that's crazy ;) | 20:48 |
| radix | zaneb: which one? | 20:48 |
| zaneb | parent stack | 20:48 |
| shardy | I'm still not that clear what this "autoscaling service" will actually do, which ceilometer and heat don't already do | 20:48 |
| zaneb | "autoscaling service directly doing an UpdateStack on the *nested* stack" is what I was thinking | 20:48 |
| radix | shardy: a couple of things | 20:48 |
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| asalkeld | shardy cool new stuff | 20:49 |
| asalkeld | :) | 20:49 |
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| radix | shardy: first, it's just a place to plug in more types of policies. scheduling-based ones, integration with other monitoring systems, etc. | 20:49 |
| shardy | $shiny_stuff | 20:49 |
| asalkeld | like what funzo needs | 20:49 |
| radix | shardy: it can also provide an API similar to Amazon Auto Scaling API | 20:49 |
| zaneb | shardy: it will be an actual resource that you can reference from anywhere (incl different template), rather than something buried behind a heat plugin | 20:49 |
| asalkeld | +1 | 20:50 |
| shardy | zaneb: Having some new *resource* I understand, a whole new service/project, not so much atm | 20:50 |
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| zaneb | I don't care whether it's in a new service/project | 20:51 |
| zaneb | I think it needs a separate endpoint so we're not precluded from deciding that it does need to be later | 20:51 |
| radix | shardy: the *main* reason to make it a separate service is to provide an isolated autoscale API, which indeed is not really that important to a Heat purist's goals. Otherwise all the other functionality (scheduling, webhook support for arbitrary other custom monitoring systems to use) can be built directly into Heat | 20:51 |
| radix | zaneb: +1 | 20:51 |
| shardy | well people keep saying "autoscaling service", hence my question about what that service will actually do | 20:52 |
| lifeless | scale | 20:52 |
| lifeless | automatically. | 20:52 |
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| zaneb | shardy: autoscaling API is a better name than service | 20:52 |
| sdake | lifeless i think the gap in communication is that heat already does scale automatically | 20:52 |
| radix | agreed | 20:52 |
| radix | (with zaneb) | 20:52 |
| lifeless | sdake: I know, I was being /totally/ unhelpful :) | 20:52 |
| radix | even though I've been saying "autoscaling service" :) | 20:53 |
| radix | shardy: so imagine how CFN probably gets along with AWS AS. it's basically the same thing | 20:53 |
| zaneb | when we have an API we can decide whether it makes sense for it to be a separate service. But we need an API IMO. | 20:53 |
| radix | AS can be used separately, but there's also probably some glue in AS to play well with CFN | 20:53 |
| shardy | zaneb: Ok, cool, I guess I'd rather just see us make our existing stuff more flexible, e.g native resources with more generic interfaces, but if an API is something people we need (rather than controlling via stack update, which can be done right now), then fair enough | 20:54 |
| shardy | s/people we/people think we/ | 20:54 |
| shardy | Ok, lets follow up on the ML, anything else for the last 5mins? | 20:55 |
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| asalkeld | shardy, I'd guess that if people are using the as api, then they are not using heat | 20:55 |
| radix | shardy: I will try to put together another mailing list post that just lays out the next design issue in a clear way, and put it in the context of the whole expected design | 20:55 |
| radix | (specifically, how the separate AS API will talk back to Heat to get it to do stuff) | 20:55 |
| asalkeld | but that is still a valid usecase | 20:55 |
| shardy | asalkeld: why would they want to do that ;p | 20:55 |
| radix | I know, I know, it's terrible :) | 20:55 |
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| asalkeld | cos not everyone wants to use heat? | 20:56 |
| randallburt | blasphemy | 20:56 |
| sdake | need to not divide developer resources | 20:56 |
| asalkeld | ;) | 20:56 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Yeah, joking ;) | 20:56 |
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| zaneb | more than that, they might want to e.g. use nested stacks and share launch configs or whatever across stacks | 20:56 |
| zaneb | and right now they can't, because it has to be in the same stack as the group | 20:57 |
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| radix | zaneb: hmm, but don't we allow arbitrary inclusion of templates now anyway? | 20:57 |
| radix | or will? | 20:57 |
| zaneb | we can fix that either by implementing a separate api, or doing the lookup internally and trying not to screw up any of the security stuff | 20:57 |
| zaneb | I know what I would vote for | 20:58 |
| asalkeld | yeah that sounds confusing | 20:58 |
| SpamapS | o/ (sorry late.. had conflicting things) | 20:58 |
| shardy | SpamapS: lol, 2mins left ;) | 20:58 |
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| asalkeld | just in time for the end | 20:58 |
| radix | SpamapS: you missed out on so much! | 20:58 |
| SpamapS | yeah | 20:58 |
| SpamapS | wanted to talk about event table | 20:58 |
| SpamapS | but we can wait till next week | 20:59 |
| sdake | spamaps I see how it is, heat is #2 in your book :) | 20:59 |
| SpamapS | sdake: #2? oh yeah, right.. number _two_ | 20:59 |
| shardy | Ok, time's up, thanks all | 20:59 |
| shardy | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| radix | thanks a lot guys | 20:59 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 14 20:59:31 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-08-14-20.00.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-08-14-20.00.txt | 20:59 |
| asalkeld | woot coffee time | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-08-14-20.00.log.html | 20:59 |
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| jd__ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 14 21:00:42 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:00 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 21:00 |
| asalkeld | next one | 21:00 |
| thomasm | o/ | 21:01 |
| jd__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/MeteringAgenda | 21:01 |
| herndon | o/ | 21:01 |
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| sileht | o/ | 21:01 |
| jd__ | hi | 21:01 |
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| terriyu | o/ | 21:01 |
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| jd__ | #topic jd__ to release python-ceilometerclient after https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40450/ merged | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "jd__ to release python-ceilometerclient after https://review.openstack.org/#/c/40450/ merged (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:02 | |
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| jd__ | #link https://pypi.python.org/pypi/python-ceilometerclient | 21:02 |
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| jd__ | released 1.0.3 | 21:02 |
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| jd__ | #topic Review Havana-3 milestone | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Havana-3 milestone (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:03 | |
| jd__ | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/havana-3 | 21:03 |
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| jd__ | so I've already moved out some of my blueprints | 21:03 |
| apmelton | o/ | 21:03 |
| nwidell | o/ | 21:03 |
| jd__ | and ttx is warning us that we should get code submitted *now* | 21:04 |
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| ttx | *now* | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | I'll move out the one for the example client, although we hope to start that soon | 21:04 |
| DanD | o/ | 21:04 |
| herndon | how now is now? | 21:04 |
| jd__ | low priority blueprint are ouf of the ttx's radar | 21:04 |
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| jd__ | herndon: yesterday | 21:04 |
| ttx | let's say that by experience now is always to late | 21:04 |
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| dragondm | o/ | 21:05 |
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| jd__ | the one that I'm pretty sure won't make it the Neutron one, I'll check with safchain tomorrow I guess | 21:05 |
| ttx | It's the first "real" feature freeze crunch for ceilometer, trust me, you'll end up landing much less than you think, and I'd like to avoid too many feature freeze exceptions (keep them for stuff we NEED to have in the release) | 21:06 |
| jd__ | eglynn's not here so we can't ask him :( | 21:06 |
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| jd__ | sileht: how's your bp? | 21:06 |
| sileht | jd__, good progress | 21:06 |
| jd__ | FTR I'm working with terriyu on her blueprint and we're getting good progress too | 21:07 |
| jd__ | (we submitted code already) | 21:07 |
| jd__ | sileht: ack | 21:07 |
| gordc_ | o/ apologies - irc client froze and didn't realize. | 21:07 |
| terriyu | I wrote the storage tests for the group by blueprint, so let me know if you have any feedback | 21:07 |
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| sileht | jd__, I have submitted th API part of the combination alarm and I have written the evaluation part I will submit it soon | 21:08 |
| jd__ | great | 21:08 |
| jd__ | let's try to make ttx a liar ;) | 21:09 |
| * ttx likes to be pleasantly surprised | 21:09 | |
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| jd__ | also, don't slow down on review so we don't have a traffic jam in the next weeks | 21:10 |
| jd__ | that'd be just awful to lose days on rebasing and stuff | 21:10 |
| jd__ | #topic Open discussion | 21:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:11 | |
| jd__ | out of topic for today, anything else? | 21:11 |
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| dhellmann | channel logging? | 21:11 |
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| jd__ | yeah, I saw your mail, so we're doing it | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | I don't guess there's much to say. I'm waiting to get the change merged to have it turned on. | 21:12 |
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| jd__ | good | 21:12 |
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| thomasm | Where would we search the logs? | 21:13 |
| jd__ | so closing this short meeting in a minute if nobody yells | 21:13 |
| jd__ | thomasm: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/ | 21:14 |
| thomasm | Ah, okay. Thanks! | 21:14 |
| dragondm | everyone is busy this week, I think :> Short meeting. | 21:14 |
| thomasm | Hehe, just a bit | 21:14 |
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| jd__ | #endmeeting | 21:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:16 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 14 21:16:41 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:16 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-08-14-21.00.html | 21:16 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-08-14-21.00.txt | 21:16 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-08-14-21.00.log.html | 21:16 |
| jd__ | see you guys, happy hacking :) | 21:16 |
| thomasm | Take it easy! | 21:16 |
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| terriyu | We should keep a record book for shortest Ceilometer meetings | 21:17 |
| dragondm | Heh. | 21:17 |
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| dragondm | That's ok, as soon as we start cutting havana-3, the meetings will run out of time :> | 21:17 |
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| fifieldt | hi sarob | 22:55 |
| fifieldt | anyone here for the community team meeting? reed's away, so if it's just me we can likely cancel | 22:57 |
| sarob | I'm here | 22:57 |
| fifieldt | cool | 22:57 |
| fifieldt | feel like chatting, or ...? :) | 22:58 |
| sarob | But not much to say ;) | 22:58 |
| sarob | Talk training? | 22:58 |
| fifieldt | I guess we could talk about how the training's going, yeah | 22:58 |
| fifieldt | let's just smash through the action item things first | 22:58 |
| fifieldt | so it's all "formal" | 22:58 |
| sarob | ;) | 22:59 |
| fifieldt | #startmeeting openstack-community | 22:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Aug 14 22:59:13 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fifieldt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 22:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_community' | 22:59 |
| fifieldt | #topic Action items from previous meeting | 22:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from previous meeting (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 22:59 | |
| fifieldt | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_community/2013/openstack_community.2013-07-31-23.03.html | 22:59 |
| fifieldt | for the minutes | 22:59 |
| fifieldt | 1. reed to investigate using blueprints and milestones to manage development projects | 22:59 |
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| fifieldt | I believe he did this, and we now have blueprints on launchpad | 23:00 |
| fifieldt | 2. reed to write down the new policy for the blog and communicate it | 23:00 |
| fifieldt | this was done | 23:00 |
| fifieldt | no crazily negative feedback | 23:00 |
| fifieldt | 3. reed to comment on fifieldt's email titled "Dealing with Out of Date wiki pages" ;) | 23:00 |
| sarob | Right | 23:00 |
| fifieldt | not done yet :) postpone to next week | 23:00 |
| fifieldt | #action reed to comment on fifieldt's email titled "Dealing with Out of Date wiki pages" ;) | 23:00 |
| fifieldt | 4. reed to investigate further how to use askbot widgets, find examples of other sites using them, etc | 23:00 |
| fifieldt | this is ongoing | 23:00 |
| fifieldt | 5. fifieldt to have a meeting with trystack admins | 23:01 |
| fifieldt | I had a great meeting with the trystack guys | 23:01 |
| fifieldt | as a result, we're moving to make the trystack activity more open | 23:01 |
| sarob | Cool | 23:01 |
| * MarkAtwood likes | 23:01 | |
| fifieldt | #info we now have http://launchpad.net/trystack | 23:01 |
| fifieldt | yay MarkAtwood :D | 23:01 |
| sarob | Super awesomeness | 23:02 |
| fifieldt | so their major plans for the next month are 1. getting API access running 2. getting better monitoring | 23:02 |
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| fifieldt | hope to communicate more on this soon | 23:02 |
| fifieldt | that's all out action items from last meeting | 23:02 |
| fifieldt | any questions on that? | 23:02 |
| sarob | Not from me | 23:03 |
| fifieldt | MarkAtwood ? | 23:03 |
| fifieldt | cool, it seems not | 23:03 |
| fifieldt | the next item on the agenda is | 23:03 |
| fifieldt | #topic bugs on https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-community | 23:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs on https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-community (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:04 | |
| fifieldt | essentially a little progress on ask.openstack, but need to chat to reed for the latest | 23:04 |
| fifieldt | I also lodged a new one | 23:04 |
| fifieldt | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-community/+bug/1212089 | 23:04 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1212089 in openstack-community "answers from launchpad need to be migrated to ask.openstack.org" [Undecided,In progress] | 23:04 |
| fifieldt | and so I made a script that can migrate stuff from launchpad answers to ask.openstack | 23:05 |
| fifieldt | so if that all goes down well in community discussion | 23:05 |
| fifieldt | we can move all the old questions from launchpad answers to ask.openstack | 23:05 |
| sarob | Nice | 23:05 |
| fifieldt | and close the launchpad answers site | 23:05 |
| fifieldt | any other bugs on the community launchpad page take anyone's fancy? | 23:05 |
| sarob | Not here | 23:06 |
| fifieldt | coolo | 23:06 |
| fifieldt | So, quickly onto the last formal agenda item (after which we can talk training awesomeness) | 23:07 |
| fifieldt | #topic progress report of projects: Ask in Chinese, User Group Portal | 23:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "progress report of projects: Ask in Chinese, User Group Portal (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:07 | |
| fifieldt | #info Ask in Chinese is live | 23:07 |
| fifieldt | #link http://ask.openstack.org/zh/ | 23:07 |
| fifieldt | I spent a bit of time doing some translations | 23:07 |
| fifieldt | we're up around 80% overall, but remaining strings to be translated are mainly on the admin dashboard side | 23:08 |
| fifieldt | so we just need to get people to use it now | 23:08 |
| fifieldt | #into development on the user group portal started | 23:08 |
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| fifieldt | their first task is to integrate the platform with openstack-infra | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | and they've made good progress on that | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | might be done this week | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | any queries on these two things? | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | cool, guess they make sense | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | #topic Training | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | sarob, let's talk training? :) | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | I've been seeing lots of patches going in | 23:09 |
| fifieldt | how's it all going? | 23:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Training (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:09 | |
| sarob | Good so far | 23:10 |
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| sarob | The structure is in place | 23:10 |
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| sarob | Starting a two week sprint next week | 23:10 |
| fifieldt | that's focused on 'associate engineer'? | 23:11 |
| sarob | Right | 23:11 |
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| fifieldt | very cool | 23:11 |
| fifieldt | and do you need anything other than your existing bodies? | 23:11 |
| sarob | Def need more people | 23:12 |
| sarob | Got anyone in | 23:12 |
| sarob | Mind? | 23:12 |
| fifieldt | I must admit I have interest personally :) Though not sure where the best starting point is right now | 23:13 |
| fifieldt | there's a couple of people who I could ping around the world | 23:13 |
| fifieldt | how are you coordinating the split up of work? | 23:13 |
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| sarob | Three levels | 23:13 |
| sarob | Core, community, education | 23:13 |
| sarob | Education uses the training and submits bugs | 23:14 |
| sarob | Community fixes bugs | 23:14 |
| sarob | Core makes strategy attends sprints | 23:15 |
| sarob | We have five core | 23:15 |
| sarob | Room for more | 23:15 |
| fifieldt | righto | 23:15 |
| sarob | I'm going to start actively recruit in the user groups | 23:16 |
| sarob | For community level | 23:16 |
| fifieldt | sounds like a plan | 23:16 |
| fifieldt | I guess you want to get some kind of percentage of completeness before dragging in the masses? | 23:17 |
| sarob | #link docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-training | 23:17 |
| sarob | Not really | 23:17 |
| sarob | I think it is ready for whomever has interest | 23:18 |
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| sarob | We start with associate to get our bearings | 23:18 |
| sarob | But I'd like to get 500 people involved if possible | 23:18 |
| fifieldt | sure, sure | 23:19 |
| sarob | Settle for 50 | 23:19 |
| sarob | ;) | 23:19 |
| fifieldt | I'm just thinking along the lines of expectation management | 23:19 |
| fifieldt | recruiting "bug fixers" for something that looks like: http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/openstack-training/content/bk002-ch050-associate-assessment.html | 23:19 |
| fifieldt | might cause a mismatch ins expectations | 23:19 |
| sarob | Ah right | 23:20 |
| fifieldt | but I'm sure you've got it in hand | 23:20 |
| sarob | On the first page | 23:20 |
| sarob | I have the levels of contribution explained | 23:20 |
| fifieldt | reading now | 23:20 |
| sarob | Cool | 23:20 |
| fifieldt | yeah, that makes more sense | 23:20 |
| fifieldt | looks good | 23:21 |
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| sarob | The user stories are the content starting point | 23:21 |
| sarob | You need to assign | 23:21 |
| sarob | But anyone can join | 23:21 |
| sarob | Trello is open | 23:21 |
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| fifieldt | cool | 23:22 |
| sarob | You interested in getting in? | 23:22 |
| fifieldt | sure | 23:22 |
| fifieldt | can't garuntee time as such | 23:22 |
| fifieldt | but I'll try to follow more closely and possibly contribute now I've had the personal intro from the leader :) | 23:22 |
| fifieldt | it is very exciting | 23:23 |
| MarkAtwood | i will start tracking it | 23:23 |
| sarob | If you can own a user story and get it done in a week, it's good | 23:23 |
| fifieldt | sounds like a good way to do it | 23:23 |
| sarob | 20-30 people doing that | 23:23 |
| fifieldt | cool | 23:23 |
| sarob | We will | 23:23 |
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| sarob | Shoot forward | 23:23 |
| fifieldt | ok, I'll keep an eye out for others too | 23:24 |
| sarob | Super | 23:24 |
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| fifieldt | anything else you want to get on the record for training? | 23:24 |
| sarob | Core will keep stitching the content together | 23:24 |
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| sarob | Nope | 23:24 |
| fifieldt | cool, I might just open it up so we can freestyle | 23:24 |
| fifieldt | #topic Open Discussion | 23:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: openstack-community)" | 23:25 | |
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| sarob | I've got two blueprints | 23:25 |
| sarob | In community | 23:25 |
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| sarob | Participation table | 23:25 |
| sarob | And the new member thingy | 23:25 |
| fifieldt | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-community/+spec/foundation-participation-table | 23:26 |
| sarob | I'm also interested in the use group foundation tool status | 23:26 |
| sarob | Not a blueprint | 23:26 |
| fifieldt | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-community/+spec/how-to-participate | 23:26 |
| sarob | The table I need to pick back up | 23:26 |
| sarob | The how to thingy is more of a foundation webtool thing | 23:27 |
| fifieldt | right, yeah | 23:27 |
| fifieldt | they looks reasonable to me | 23:27 |
| fifieldt | I know reed has lots of thoughts on the latter | 23:28 |
| fifieldt | with the "funnel" | 23:28 |
| sarob | Cooling | 23:28 |
| sarob | Ah spellcheck | 23:28 |
| fifieldt | to help progress people though the different stages | 23:28 |
| sarob | Right | 23:28 |
| sarob | I'd like to hold the user state | 23:28 |
| fifieldt | what kind of states are you thinking? | 23:29 |
| sarob | We have lots of hidden bits | 23:29 |
| fifieldt | member || atc || ... | 23:29 |
| fifieldt | right, true | 23:29 |
| sarob | I want to walk new company or user through | 23:29 |
| sarob | What OpenStack foundation offers | 23:30 |
| sarob | It's kinda foundation training | 23:30 |
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| sarob | A step by step how to | 23:31 |
| fifieldt | something like http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/flying/travelClasses/firstLounge/mel/index.html ? | 23:31 |
| sarob | What's a gold member? | 23:31 |
| fifieldt | got it - it's leveraging your table | 23:32 |
| sarob | It's flash | 23:32 |
| fifieldt | it was the only example I had on hand :) | 23:32 |
| sarob | My iphone no likely | 23:32 |
| sarob | Likey | 23:32 |
| fifieldt | oh well | 23:32 |
| sarob | Got got the idea | 23:32 |
| fifieldt | but yeah, I think one of the other things that comes up again is people thinking they need to be a gold sponsor _before_ contributing | 23:33 |
| sarob | If we can tie tech training along with foundation training | 23:33 |
| sarob | Common misunderstand | 23:33 |
| sarob | IMF | 23:33 |
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| sarob | Ing | 23:33 |
| fifieldt | got it | 23:33 |
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| sarob | We are going to start using the board membership committee | 23:34 |
| sarob | To help new potentials | 23:34 |
| fifieldt | cool | 23:34 |
| sarob | The how to tool would be the tech version | 23:35 |
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| fifieldt | got it | 23:35 |
| sarob | So maybe reed or you can provide some insight the user group tool | 23:36 |
| sarob | Next meet | 23:36 |
| fifieldt | absolutely | 23:37 |
| fifieldt | I expect we'll have a good update | 23:37 |
| sarob | And thoughts on the how to workflow | 23:37 |
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| sarob | Coolo | 23:37 |
| fifieldt | also within the next month will be a new getting started page on openstack.org | 23:37 |
| fifieldt | it's already written, mostly | 23:37 |
| fifieldt | which will not achieve everything that is needed | 23:37 |
| sarob | Great | 23:37 |
| fifieldt | but it'll be a helluva lot better than right now | 23:37 |
| sarob | Well it's prob a good stopgap | 23:38 |
| fifieldt | indeed | 23:38 |
| sarob | I'd like | 23:38 |
| sarob | To give ourselves a goal of partipation | 23:38 |
| sarob | Like 100 commits a day or | 23:39 |
| sarob | 10 user group events a week | 23:39 |
| fifieldt | ambitious :) | 23:40 |
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| sarob | It would be a challenging way of rating our success | 23:40 |
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| fifieldt | indeed | 23:40 |
| sarob | In not sure what would be good metrics | 23:40 |
| sarob | I just want to kick ass | 23:41 |
| fifieldt | roger that | 23:41 |
| * sarob sarob kicking ass | 23:41 | |
| * fifieldt tempted to #action that | 23:41 | |
| fifieldt | cool, well, is that a good point to end this meeting? | 23:42 |
| sarob | I think so | 23:42 |
| * sarob fell off soapbox | 23:42 | |
| fifieldt | #endmeeting openstack-community | 23:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Aug 14 23:42:26 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_community/2013/openstack_community.2013-08-14-22.59.html | 23:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_community/2013/openstack_community.2013-08-14-22.59.txt | 23:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_community/2013/openstack_community.2013-08-14-22.59.log.html | 23:42 |
| fifieldt | brilliant :) | 23:42 |
| fifieldt | thanks for the chat sarob | 23:42 |
| fifieldt | love your work | 23:42 |
| sarob | no prob | 23:42 |
| sarob | Thanks! | 23:42 |
| sarob | Cheers | 23:42 |
| fifieldt | time for breakfast :) | 23:43 |
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| sarob | Sarob out | 23:43 |
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