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| rakhmerov | hi guys | 16:01 |
|---|---|---|
| rakhmerov | #startmeeting Mistral | 16:01 |
| gokrokve | hi | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Mon Nov 11 16:01:12 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is rakhmerov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'mistral' | 16:01 |
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| igormarnat | Hey there | 16:01 |
| akuznetsov | Hi | 16:01 |
| rakhmerov | Let's discuss things happened within the last couple of weeks | 16:01 |
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| rakhmerov | so we didn't have a meeting last Monday due to summit activities | 16:02 |
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| rakhmerov | just a couple of words about the summit itself and how everything went regarding Mistral | 16:02 |
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| rakhmerov | I think it was actually pretty successful | 16:03 |
| rakhmerov | we had a lightning talk and an Unconference track | 16:03 |
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| rakhmerov | and Mistral was also discussed at other design sessions | 16:04 |
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| rakhmerov | for example, we were at the design session of Heat where they were trying to decide how to switch to TaskFlow | 16:04 |
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| rakhmerov | and I had a couple minutes to tell briefly about what Mistral is going to be | 16:05 |
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| rakhmerov | they definitely liked the idea of the project itself and seem to have endorsed it completely | 16:05 |
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| rakhmerov | and they offered their help if we need | 16:05 |
| rakhmerov | I think we will be in touch with them anyway | 16:06 |
| gokrokve | Sure. | 16:06 |
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| gokrokve | We plan to work with Heat team. | 16:06 |
| rakhmerov | yep | 16:07 |
| gokrokve | Actually we already spoke with Steven about contribution to Heat. | 16:07 |
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| rakhmerov | there were also a number of people who approached me between the sessions and asked questions about Mistral | 16:07 |
| rakhmerov | there was a guy who said "This is really what I need in my work, I'm going to use it when it's done" | 16:08 |
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| rakhmerov | so I think all went pretty well, I'm glad to realize that | 16:08 |
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| gokrokve | Cool. | 16:09 |
| rakhmerov | Solum guys I believe will be using Mistral too when they get to some more complicated scenarios | 16:09 |
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| rakhmerov | they will definitely need it | 16:09 |
| gokrokve | It actually gives some pressure on us too. We have to deliver something valuable during Icehouse release. | 16:09 |
| rakhmerov | yes, I think we'll be able to | 16:10 |
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| rakhmerov | the game is becoming more interesting :) | 16:10 |
| rakhmerov | and exciting | 16:10 |
| gokrokve | Which means, that we have to plan Mistral very carefully, to cover important common parts. | 16:10 |
| rakhmerov | yes, you're right | 16:10 |
| rakhmerov | that's why we got some new folks in our team | 16:11 |
| rakhmerov | as akuznetsov | 16:11 |
| gokrokve | So, do you have a list of features people asked for? | 16:11 |
| gokrokve | Great. Welcome Alex! | 16:11 |
| rakhmerov | Alex, welcome to the team! | 16:11 |
| rakhmerov | I hope we'll be cool things together | 16:11 |
| rakhmerov | * we'll do | 16:11 |
| akuznetsov | thank you | 16:11 |
| rakhmerov | gokrove, yes, I have some notes after conversations with people, they will be reflected in the documenation | 16:12 |
| gokrokve | In BPs? | 16:13 |
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| rakhmerov | mostly, they're related with some more advanced functionality that we haven't thought so far | 16:13 |
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| gokrokve | Let's follow OpenStack way. If we have a feature let's document it in BP on the launchpad. | 16:13 |
| rakhmerov | yes, as far as BPs we need to start publishing all our ideas as BPs | 16:13 |
| gokrokve | So everybody can see it and comment. | 16:13 |
| rakhmerov | gokrokve, agree | 16:13 |
| rakhmerov | right | 16:14 |
| rakhmerov | ok, now let's review the previous action items | 16:14 |
| gokrokve | After we have all BPs, we can go to IRC canells asking for review. | 16:14 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:14 |
| ruhe | hi folks. is mistral going to be a rest api service for taskflow? | 16:14 |
| gokrokve | Probably we will be able to collect some feedback from other teams, and heat in particular | 16:14 |
| rakhmerov | ruhe, not exactly for taskflow | 16:15 |
| gokrokve | That not exactly this way. Mistral is an API for workflows orchestration. | 16:15 |
| rakhmerov | yes | 16:15 |
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| gokrokve | It will use taskflow under the hood. | 16:15 |
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| gokrokve | But it will have more features. | 16:15 |
| rakhmerov | much more | 16:15 |
| igormarnat | But it gonna be more than rest api for task flow. | 16:15 |
| akuznetsov | In OpenStack with Mistral and TaskFlow project will have two way for workflow creation, we should give recommendation in which case Mistral or TaskFlow should be used | 16:15 |
| gokrokve | Like even management and scheduled tasks. | 16:16 |
| rakhmerov | and address some completely different use cases that can't be addressed by taskflow | 16:16 |
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| rakhmerov | akuznetsof, good idea. We need to start writing on this | 16:16 |
| gokrokve | Yes. We are targeting more high level use cases. Like backup execution by schedule, live migration on event and so on. | 16:16 |
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| ruhe | could mistral be used as underlying infrastructure for Heat orchestration engine? | 16:17 |
| rakhmerov | ruhe, yes, it could | 16:17 |
| gokrokve | Mistral will have its own DSL to express task flows. Soy you will not need to create a code, Mistral will generate the code for task flow. | 16:17 |
| gokrokve | Actually this was discussed on the summit during Heat design session. | 16:18 |
| rakhmerov | we discussed it with Heat team and they positively look at it | 16:18 |
| gokrokve | So, yes in general, but when Mistral will have at least some maturity. | 16:18 |
| rakhmerov | but they want to start using something pretty soon | 16:19 |
| rakhmerov | yes | 16:19 |
| gokrokve | That is why we plan to work with Heat team closely, to have some feedback from them. | 16:19 |
| rakhmerov | probably they will start using TaskFlow and then they'll continue with the engine for TaskFlow that schedules tasks across Mistral | 16:20 |
| gokrokve | They will not probably be able to help writing the code but at least they may help us to make a list of required features. | 16:20 |
| rakhmerov | that's going to be another point of integration between TaskFlow and Mistral | 16:20 |
| rakhmerov | yes, that's what we need from them mostly | 16:20 |
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| rakhmerov | those guys I think are too busy to be able to write some code for us | 16:21 |
| katyafervent | So the project design will be be as it is now, and there is no changes made after summit. Is it correct? | 16:21 |
| rakhmerov | at least that's what I heard from them | 16:21 |
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| rakhmerov | katyafervent, yes, it's 99% true | 16:21 |
| rakhmerov | people accepted our ideas just as they are | 16:22 |
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| rakhmerov | with some slight changes that are mostly related with some additional advanced features | 16:22 |
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| rakhmerov | I'll share all of this pretty soon | 16:23 |
| katyafervent | rakhmerov, that's great! So now we need to read it deeply | 16:23 |
| ruhe | i wonder, what tools are you going to use to store distributed state? zookeeper/sql/smth else? | 16:23 |
| gokrokve | That is a good question. | 16:24 |
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| rakhmerov | there's a bunch of options, at this point it's not decided yet. You can contribute your thoughts if you want :) | 16:24 |
| gokrokve | Right now I don't see any intentions to use external tools for that. | 16:24 |
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| gokrokve | We don't have a line of code, so we can properly design this from initial stage. | 16:25 |
| akuznetsov | possibly we should have a plugble system for state storage | 16:25 |
| rakhmerov | I think we first need to start diving deeper into design | 16:25 |
| rakhmerov | yes, I would love to see a way to abstract it out | 16:25 |
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| rakhmerov | guys, I would also ask all of you to use openstak-dev mailing list more actively | 16:26 |
| rakhmerov | you got an idea - you share it via the mailing list | 16:26 |
| rakhmerov | and it could be absolutely anything | 16:26 |
| rakhmerov | like "Where do I need to put a comma in this line?" | 16:26 |
| rakhmerov | so that people could participate | 16:27 |
| gokrokve | Agree. | 16:27 |
| rakhmerov | I think we hasitate to do it frequently but we need to change our mindset here | 16:27 |
| gokrokve | Yep. | 16:27 |
| rakhmerov | communication is everything | 16:28 |
| gokrokve | So, Renat will you take an AI to create a list of BP for the features? | 16:28 |
| rakhmerov | #action rakhmerov, create a list of Blueprints for Mistral features | 16:28 |
| gokrokve | Publish them on Launchpad and them start discussion in mailing list. | 16:28 |
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| rakhmerov | ok | 16:29 |
| rakhmerov | so, now let's get back to some previous action items, just to be consistent | 16:29 |
| gokrokve | We also need to strat conversation about design in general. | 16:29 |
| igormarnat | We can shortly discuss list of potential topics here. For now there was a question about the way to keep track of state | 16:29 |
| rakhmerov | #topic Previous Action Items | 16:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Previous Action Items (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:29 | |
| gokrokve | ok | 16:29 |
| rakhmerov | 1. rakhmerov, stanlagun, tsufiev, keep working on DSL/API Mistral specification | 16:30 |
| igormarnat | Anyway, let's stick to the agenda now and return back to potential questions later | 16:30 |
| rakhmerov | this is still in progress and we now have a target date Nov 20 to complete this | 16:30 |
| rakhmerov | after the summit we have some new things to include into the specs | 16:31 |
| rakhmerov | so, I'll transfer it on | 16:31 |
| igormarnat | Let's add one more owner for this AI | 16:31 |
| igormarnat | akuznetsov | 16:31 |
| rakhmerov | #action rakhmerov, akuznetsov, stanlagun, tsufiev, keep working on DSL/API Mistral specification and include all features discussed at the summit | 16:32 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:32 |
| rakhmerov | 2. rakhmerov, finish detailed description of "Long-running Business Process" use case | 16:32 |
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| rakhmerov | so regarding this one, I've done it | 16:32 |
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| rakhmerov | however, we decided not to publish it on the wiki for a while because it's not what we're going to target within the next 6 months | 16:33 |
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| rakhmerov | I really think, because of the structure of the wiki we have here it could be published actually | 16:34 |
| rakhmerov | and accessible via "Read more" link | 16:34 |
| rakhmerov | I personally don't see any harm in doing that | 16:34 |
| rakhmerov | what do you think? | 16:34 |
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| rakhmerov | I'm talking about that use case where we calculate salary using several enterprise systems | 16:35 |
| rakhmerov | anyway, this documentation will be evolving all the time | 16:35 |
| rakhmerov | if you agree, I'll create an AI to publish it | 16:36 |
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| rakhmerov | gokrokve, igormarnat? | 16:37 |
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| gokrokve | Yes. publish it. But add a note that this is not a goal. It is just an example how to use it in general as a generic engine. | 16:37 |
| rakhmerov | sure, ok | 16:37 |
| igormarnat | We can publish it, no issue, though I don't see a lot of value in that for now:) | 16:37 |
| igormarnat | Anyway, let's do it | 16:38 |
| rakhmerov | #action rakhmerov, publish detailed description of "Long-running business process" use case on wiki | 16:38 |
| rakhmerov | yes, it's a 10 min thing to do :) | 16:38 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:38 |
| rakhmerov | the next one | 16:38 |
| rakhmerov | 3. stanlagun, finish detailed description of "Post Deployment Configuration" use case | 16:38 |
| rakhmerov | done | 16:38 |
| rakhmerov | but under a different name | 16:39 |
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| rakhmerov | #info "Cloud Environment Deployment" use case, https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Mistral/Cloud_Environment_Deployment_details | 16:39 |
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| rakhmerov | 4. ativelkov, collect the info about use case related to setting up a network (not a high priority) | 16:40 |
| rakhmerov | in progress, not a high priority | 16:40 |
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| rakhmerov | #action ativelkov, collect the info about use case related to setting up a network (not a high priority) | 16:40 |
| rakhmerov | 5. rakhmerov, prepare the first version of Roadmap and the development plan | 16:41 |
| rakhmerov | the first version of Roadmap is done and event shared at the summit | 16:41 |
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| rakhmerov | but I still didn't share it anywhere else | 16:41 |
| igormarnat | So here comes the next AI for us | 16:42 |
| rakhmerov | what ways of sharing it would you recommend guys? Except wiki, of course | 16:42 |
| igormarnat | To put together AIs and agreements achieved in HK and publish them in mailing list | 16:42 |
| rakhmerov | yes | 16:42 |
| rakhmerov | #action akhmerov, put together AIs and agreements achieved in HK and publish them in mailing list | 16:43 |
| rakhmerov | the Roadmap we have now is kind of a draft, how can we discuss it with the community in the best way? | 16:44 |
| rakhmerov | mailing list? | 16:44 |
| rakhmerov | or some sort of a Blueprint? | 16:44 |
| igormarnat | Let's discuss them prior to publishing though in order to see if me and Gosha and Alexander can add anything | 16:44 |
| rakhmerov | yes, ok | 16:44 |
| rakhmerov | #action gokrokve, igormarnat, akuznetsom review Roadmap and add whatever you think needs to be added in there | 16:45 |
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| rakhmerov | #action rakhmerov, share Roadmap with the community to start discussing it | 16:45 |
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| rakhmerov | #topic Free discussion | 16:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Free discussion (Meeting topic: Mistral)" | 16:46 | |
| rakhmerov | anything else guys that you'd like to discuss? | 16:46 |
| igormarnat | Great. Let's return back to the list of questions we had | 16:46 |
| igormarnat | The first one was the way to track states | 16:47 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:47 |
| igormarnat | ruhe, akuznetsov, what else was there? | 16:47 |
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| ruhe | the only thing i wanted to mention... | 16:48 |
| ruhe | there is a project https://github.com/airbnb/chronos which might be a good source of inspiration :) | 16:48 |
| rakhmerov | so I see it could be encapsulated in a subsystem of Mistral from the very beginning so that we may vary the actual storage whenever we want | 16:48 |
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| rakhmerov | #info https://github.com/airbnb/chronos | 16:48 |
| rakhmerov | thanks! | 16:48 |
| rakhmerov | you mean in the context of storing a distributed state? | 16:49 |
| ruhe | storing and executing | 16:49 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:49 |
| ruhe | chronos uses http://mesos.apache.org/ which itself might be a good engine for distributed task execution | 16:50 |
| akuznetsov | we should define what part of workflow functionality in Mistral and which in TaskFlow | 16:50 |
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| rakhmerov | #action rakhmerov, akuznetsov, NikolayM review https://github.com/airbnb/chronos and http://mesos.apache.org/ with regard to storing and executing distributed tasks | 16:51 |
| rakhmerov | akuznetsov, yes, I believe TaskFlow is currently missing some stuff required for Mistral | 16:52 |
| rakhmerov | I think we need to identify that as soon as possible | 16:52 |
| igormarnat | rakhmerov, not only that, but we might want to describe explicitly what's the difference between them and when one use Taskflow, when does he use Mistral | 16:52 |
| igormarnat | Description of what's need to be added to Taskflow is a separate topic | 16:53 |
| rakhmerov | and start discussing it with TaskFlow folks so that they either implement that themselves or let us contribute, or both | 16:53 |
| rakhmerov | ooh, apologize. I may have misunderstood that | 16:53 |
| rakhmerov | yes, got it now | 16:53 |
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| igormarnat | Are there any news from our big and powerful prototyping team? What did we prototype already? :) | 16:54 |
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| rakhmerov | #action rakhmerov, kuznetsov, harlowja clearly describe the high-level separation of functionality between TaskFlow and Mistral in terms of addressed use cases | 16:55 |
| rakhmerov | sounds good enough? | 16:55 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:56 |
| rakhmerov | 4 mins left | 16:56 |
| igormarnat | LGTM | 16:56 |
| rakhmerov | ok | 16:56 |
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| rakhmerov | looks like we have a bunch of AIs this time :) | 16:57 |
| rakhmerov | a lot of work | 16:57 |
| rakhmerov | anything else? | 16:58 |
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| rakhmerov | ok, they we'll end for today | 16:58 |
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| rakhmerov | thanks to everyone! I'll see you all soon | 16:59 |
| igormarnat | Ok, thanks for coming, everyone. TTYL, BFN:) | 16:59 |
| rakhmerov | #endmeeting | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Mon Nov 11 16:59:13 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2013/mistral.2013-11-11-16.01.html | 16:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2013/mistral.2013-11-11-16.01.txt | 16:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/mistral/2013/mistral.2013-11-11-16.01.log.html | 16:59 |
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| NobodyCam | NO IRONIC MEETING TODAY! (sorry for the late notice) | 20:20 |
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| s3wong | no Neutron meeting, I suppose? | 21:12 |
| jorisroovers | was wondering the same thing | 21:12 |
| sthakkar | i guess? | 21:12 |
| s3wong | Nevermind, just saw Mark's email. No meeting today | 21:13 |
| sthakkar | oh ok | 21:13 |
| sthakkar | sounds good | 21:13 |
| sthakkar | later guys | 21:13 |
| jorisroovers | I'm quite new to this, wanted to be proverbial 'fly on the wall' here | 21:13 |
| jorisroovers | did that mail go out to the mailing list? | 21:13 |
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| s3wong | jorisroovers: yes, the email was sent to the openstack-dev mailing list | 21:19 |
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| jorisroovers | ok, thanks | 21:21 |
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