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| annegentle | hey all | 14:05 |
|---|---|---|
| annegentle | let's get started | 14:05 |
| chandankumar | annegentle, hello | 14:06 |
| annegentle | #startmeeting DocTeamMeeting | 14:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 12 14:06:14 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 14:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteammeeting' | 14:06 |
| annegentle | Here's our Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 14:06 |
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| annegentle | Let's see, action items from last meeting, all the way back in October. | 14:06 |
| annegentle | #topic Action items from last meeting | 14:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 14:06 | |
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| annegentle | wow no actions last time, see http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-10-22-13.01.html | 14:07 |
| annegentle | whee | 14:07 |
| annegentle | #topic Report from the Summit | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Report from the Summit (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 14:08 | |
| annegentle | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2013-November/003252.html | 14:08 |
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| annegentle | I wrote that post so that we could ensure we all agreed, wish Tom were here so he could discuss his finer points | 14:08 |
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| * chandankumar is going through the link. | 14:09 | |
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| annegentle | I think the doc representation was me, Summer, Tom, and Stephen Gordon, though I also talked to team members who work on docs like Brian Rosmaita for glance, and Edgar for neutron, and cyeoh for the v3 API | 14:09 |
| sgordon | annegentle, i was working on something else on the plan but it's going to take a while | 14:09 |
| sgordon | some QE guys here and i were mulling the possibility of doing some docs CI | 14:10 |
| annegentle | sgordon: the plan will take a while? | 14:10 |
| sgordon | by extracting the commands from the XML and then running them via tempest or something of that ilk | 14:10 |
| annegentle | sgordon: oh ok, for API docs or for all docs? | 14:10 |
| sgordon | i think it would assist with the testing period | 14:10 |
| sgordon | i think for targeted installation guide chapters | 14:10 |
| sgordon | probably the core bits, choose your own adventure gets a bit hairy | 14:10 |
| Loquacity | annegentle: i believe that michael davies is interested on working on some tooling too, has he contacted you? | 14:10 |
| annegentle | sgordon: I can't recall the name now, but someone was asking me on Friday about automating install doc testing, I sent him to tripleo, but maybe it's related? | 14:11 |
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| sgordon | annegentle, probably related | 14:11 |
| lorin1 | annegentle: Was there any discussion of adding SDK content into the user guide? | 14:11 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: hm, that may have been the name? | 14:11 |
| Loquacity | he wasn't at summit | 14:11 |
| Loquacity | he's on our team | 14:11 |
| Loquacity | sorry, by 'our' i mean RCBAU | 14:11 |
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| annegentle | lorin1: yes, for sure, in Everett's talk, we want to set up developer.openstack.org -- and would definitely like to help you in any efforts around the CLI | 14:11 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: ah okay, cool, I can find him... | 14:12 |
| lorin1 | annegentle: Is there any writeup about that? Or should I just sync with him directly? | 14:12 |
| Loquacity | ping me if you need me to get you in touch | 14:12 |
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| Loquacity | he's mrda on irc | 14:12 |
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| annegentle | lorin1: yes, https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-doc-app-devs | 14:13 |
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| annegentle | lorin1: we decided the developer.openstack.org should live in a separate repo | 14:13 |
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| annegentle | lorin1: but the python sdk guide can live in openstack-manuals since it's for users | 14:14 |
| annegentle | lorin1: and really only if all this sounds good to you | 14:14 |
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| annegentle | lorin1: Tom said he'd write a blueprint for it, but you could if you want to | 14:15 |
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| annegentle | we'll keep api.openstack.org around this release | 14:15 |
| lorin1 | annegentle: This is all fine by me. But just to clarify, does this mean python sdk guide will remain a separate doc, and not get merged into user guide? | 14:15 |
| annegentle | lorin1: I think it could be a series within the user guide, but may need to be separate because one reviewer, a .NET dev, said "irrelevant to me" when reading through it. | 14:16 |
| nermina | hi all | 14:16 |
| annegentle | lorin1: if I had my druthers, it'd be in the user guide, but I don't know if other sdk devs would think to go there | 14:16 |
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| annegentle | dianefleming: what do you think about the python SDK info going in the user guide? | 14:17 |
| summerlong | o/ nermina | 14:17 |
| annegentle | hi nermina | 14:17 |
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| annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Icehouse/Etherpads#Tuesday_6 | 14:17 |
| annegentle | you can read all the etherpads at that link above | 14:17 |
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| annegentle | I'd like to have some sort of video/hifi meeting online to recap the summit and make sure all questions get answered. | 14:18 |
| summerlong | annegentle, am fine to do research on tooling, just won't be free for a few weeks. | 14:18 |
| annegentle | I did feel like docs was under-represented. | 14:18 |
| annegentle | summerlong: oh goodie. | 14:18 |
| dianefleming | i don't think python sdk guide should go into user guide | 14:18 |
| annegentle | Yes that was another decision, to have summerlong do a research spike on automating screen captures from Horizon, the dashboard. | 14:18 |
| summerlong | +1 that, is a separate audience, or? | 14:18 |
| dianefleming | especially if we move cli reference to separate book | 14:18 |
| annegentle | summerlong: dianefleming: yes I think it is a separate audience, that's the feedback I have from sdk devs also. I'm just lazy about the maintenance and upkeep of another book, comments, etc. :) | 14:19 |
| dianefleming | though we could introduce python in the user guide | 14:19 |
| annegentle | oh that reminds me, we did not get further on the ask.openstack.org integration | 14:19 |
| annegentle | for API docs, | 14:19 |
| annegentle | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-api-doc-repos | 14:19 |
| annegentle | I really didn't get all the PTLs in one room for that one, but got good input from people there. summerlong was there too. | 14:19 |
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| annegentle | there's definitely need to keep telling devs that users need user docs for API | 14:20 |
| dianefleming | what was the consensus in that meeting? | 14:20 |
| annegentle | but there was some questioning of "are we making things worse for block storage and object storage users" and since they are sometimes standalone, I get the concern... just not sure how to address it. | 14:20 |
| dianefleming | i mean, what was the consensus from people | 14:21 |
| dianefleming | worse by doing what? | 14:21 |
| dianefleming | consolidating API information? | 14:21 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: questions are at the bottom of that etherpad, such as "Could you just make the dev docs "visible" from the larger document? " | 14:21 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: yes, consolidation makes it worse for storage apparently | 14:21 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: but, we also have input from the user committee survey that no one knows we have a load balancer API for example | 14:21 |
| dianefleming | hmmm | 14:22 |
| nermina | there is a category for devs. does the search not bring stuff like that up? | 14:22 |
| annegentle | so there's work to be done, consensus was, it won't hurt to have a consolidated guide, and it will point out inconsistencies across APIs, but we will need to consider individual APIs. | 14:22 |
| dianefleming | i don't know what it means to make docs "visible" from larger document | 14:22 |
| nermina | i'm with you dianefleming | 14:22 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: all I could think of was to make sure object storage is easy to find? | 14:22 |
| dianefleming | i think the problem with object and block storage is that, their api docs aren't very good at the moment - | 14:23 |
| dianefleming | not that they aren't visible enough | 14:23 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: they're definitely not user oriented to me | 14:23 |
| dianefleming | i think going through the exercise of creating a consolidated API guide will uncover issues - | 14:23 |
| summerlong | dianefleming, links to the dev docs instead of including them. | 14:23 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: and we have to keep repeating that to the devs, they aren't naturally or automatically empathetic | 14:23 |
| dianefleming | also, the exercise of getting the WADLs correct will also fix issues | 14:23 |
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| annegentle | dianefleming: yes | 14:24 |
| dianefleming | we may determine that we need separate guides for APIs after all is said and done but I think we need to start somewhere | 14:24 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: also coaching dev teams for a consistent way of documenting the API for users will help. There was a lot of confusion in the session. | 14:24 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: so I think this is the right way forward | 14:24 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: Exactly. You read my mind faster than I can type. | 14:24 |
| dianefleming | hmm - okay - we can talk more later | 14:24 |
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| annegentle | Let's see, any other reports from the Summit? | 14:25 |
| nermina | were the sessions recorded, annegentle? | 14:25 |
| annegentle | I nearly died when a cab driver fell asleep at the wheel after the TC dinner. Ugh. | 14:25 |
| annegentle | nermina: no | 14:25 |
| nermina | wow, annegentle | 14:25 |
| lorin1 | annegentle: OMG | 14:25 |
| dianefleming | you mean you LITERALLY almost died | 14:25 |
| Loquacity | heh, i heard about that | 14:25 |
| Loquacity | glad you're ok | 14:25 |
| dianefleming | did you see the light at the end of the tunnel? | 14:25 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: yes. Loquacity: I was so glad mikal grabbed the wheel | 14:25 |
| summerlong | nermina, but the etherpad's are pretty faithful to the conversation | 14:25 |
| Loquacity | he was very proud of himself ;) | 14:26 |
| nermina | thanks, summerlong | 14:26 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: I kneeled on the ground when the cab finally delivered us to the hotel. Literally. | 14:26 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: LOL | 14:26 |
| sdague | true story, I was there | 14:26 |
| Loquacity | :P | 14:26 |
| dianefleming | ha ha - well, i would've fainted | 14:26 |
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| annegentle | nermina: yes etherpads are your best bet, and I've also been quizzing people who were in sessions, like the "Future of Design Summits" session | 14:26 |
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| nermina | very good | 14:27 |
| annegentle | Spring is in Atlanta, Fall in Paris. One suggestion from the "future" session was to offset the design portion from the user portion by a day or two | 14:27 |
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| annegentle | we'll see what changes they can make for Atlanta and Paris, Paris may be too costly to add a day | 14:27 |
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| annegentle | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IcehouseFutureDesignSummits | 14:27 |
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| nermina | "not only red bull, please" lol | 14:28 |
| annegentle | nermina: :) | 14:28 |
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| nermina | moar coffee! | 14:29 |
| summerlong | btw, annegentle, I thought 'meet the TC' was quite good. | 14:29 |
| annegentle | summerlong: oh thanks! | 14:29 |
| annegentle | summerlong: I was asked afterwards why I didn't jump on that first question about diversity on the TC (more representation from Asia was the specifics) | 14:29 |
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| summerlong | yes, true. | 14:30 |
| annegentle | summerlong: people jumped on "get some skin in the game" which I don't really agree with, it's definitely tough to get a leg in when you're sooooo woefully underrepresented. I think we have to do even more outreach. | 14:30 |
| sgordon | feels like a wider engagement issue | 14:30 |
| sgordon | we obviously have very diverse contributors | 14:30 |
| sgordon | but not necessarily engaged in the election process | 14:31 |
| sgordon | TC of all bodies in openstack should be a meritocracy | 14:31 |
| annegentle | sgordon: hm, good point about election turnout, what was the latest percentage? | 14:31 |
| sgordon | not sure | 14:31 |
| summerlong | Everyone got an email, right? | 14:31 |
| summerlong | How else would you push it? | 14:31 |
| sgordon | yeah everyone who is an ATC i think? | 14:31 |
| sgordon | or is it all foundation members? | 14:31 |
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| nermina | i think there should be more info about the nominations | 14:32 |
| annegentle | sgordon: ATCs for TC election | 14:32 |
| annegentle | nermina: yes our governance is quite complex but all on the wiki | 14:32 |
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| nermina | right, we get the email about the elections but not nominations | 14:32 |
| annegentle | nermina: not that that makes it easy to understand, but it is learnable... | 14:32 |
| annegentle | Ok, one more summit item to share: | 14:32 |
| annegentle | #link http://www.openstack.org/blog/2013/11/openstack-user-survey-statistics-november-2013/ | 14:32 |
| annegentle | So the user survey results came back, and finally docs weren't named the most awful thing about openstack! We're number 2! :) | 14:33 |
| annegentle | It really was encouraging. | 14:33 |
| lorin1 | #1 information source! | 14:33 |
| nermina | awesome info | 14:33 |
| annegentle | And, the user committee can take questions that are specific, for example, I plan to ask if any comments specifically point to documents that are unliked. | 14:34 |
| annegentle | Plus we found out they don't know we have a Load Balancer API | 14:34 |
| annegentle | I think there are 3 "buried" APIs within neutron | 14:34 |
| summerlong | Will the survey be run every 6 months now? | 14:35 |
| annegentle | summerlong: yes | 14:35 |
| annegentle | The number of deployments nearly doubled in 6 months (84 to 165) | 14:36 |
| annegentle | the majority are private cloud | 14:36 |
| annegentle | And many are in companies with less than 20 people | 14:36 |
| annegentle | The data is kept private, but we can ask specific questions. If you're interested in matching up the user survey with the personas, let me or Dave Neary know. | 14:37 |
| annegentle | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/16rkiXWxxgzGT47_Wc6hzIPzO2-s2JWAPEKD0gP2mt7E/edit?usp=sharing | 14:37 |
| annegentle | ^^ that's the persona document | 14:37 |
| sgordon | mmmm some of those images got down converted in a way that doesnt really aid readability | 14:37 |
| summerlong | I thought it was perhaps my monitor at home. | 14:37 |
| annegentle | there's not an exact match on survey-persona | 14:37 |
| * sgordon squints at the deployment tools image | 14:37 | |
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| annegentle | I think in the blog entry there's a link to the source? | 14:38 |
| annegentle | #link http://www.openstack.org/assets/Uploads/Deployments-IceHouse-v1.1.pptx | 14:38 |
| sgordon | yeah, a pptx that doesnt load well in libre :) | 14:39 |
| annegentle | sgordon: ooo | 14:39 |
| annegentle | sgordon: I'll make a PDF | 14:39 |
| sgordon | thanks :) | 14:39 |
| annegentle | Ok, on to the install guide? | 14:39 |
| sgordon | i have saw most of the graphs when it was actually presented but it's useful to have the info as a reference | 14:39 |
| sgordon | yes :? | 14:39 |
| sgordon | :> | 14:39 |
| annegentle | #topic Install guide | 14:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Install guide (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 14:39 | |
| annegentle | I sent a ML post out saying how useful it is to have the install guide done the week of the summit. | 14:40 |
| annegentle | I mean, REALLY helpful. | 14:40 |
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| annegentle | How is it shaping up? Andreas is at a Suse conference this week but hopefully others have a sense of it. | 14:40 |
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| chandankumar | annegentle, i am fixing the bugs found in the install guide. | 14:41 |
| Loquacity | i've noticed a couple of bugs that really are asking for high level changes, so it's probably worthwhile taking a look at the architecture of the book pretty soon | 14:41 |
| sgordon | that actually reminds me i think i have some stuff i did on the plane to push | 14:41 |
| annegentle | chandankumar: yes, thank you | 14:41 |
| sgordon | whoopps | 14:41 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: good point. We always get input that they want a controller guide followed by a compute guide, but I don't think that's a good idea for the non-compute projects | 14:42 |
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| Loquacity | agree | 14:42 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: for Swift we could do a proxy guide, a container guide, an object guide, etc. | 14:42 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: ok, good. what other overarching input do we have? | 14:42 |
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| Loquacity | i really want to sit down and do a proper review of the workflows in it, honestly | 14:43 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: that would be great | 14:43 |
| Loquacity | it's not entirely bad, but i think it's a bit daunting | 14:43 |
| * Loquacity adds that to her list | 14:43 | |
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| Loquacity | i've kind of been hesitating, since there seems to be rumbling about changing it | 14:44 |
| summerlong | but not for icehouse. | 14:44 |
| Loquacity | ah, good point summerlong | 14:44 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: right, for icehouse, we want to maintain this one | 14:44 |
| annegentle | then look at tripleo possible (Tom hates that idea by the way, but sgordon and I are onboard with at least looking at it) | 14:45 |
| Loquacity | ok | 14:45 |
| sgordon | i think it's worth considering in a J timeframe | 14:45 |
| Loquacity | i might take a look with an eye to no major restructuring, then | 14:45 |
| annegentle | tom thinks manual install all the way to learn. I do agree partially with that, and that's what I understand from going to user groups, that you have to endure the pain of a manual install to learn. | 14:45 |
| annegentle | sgordon: yes, I agree completely | 14:45 |
| Loquacity | yeah, i'm coming to the same conclusion, painful as it is ;) | 14:45 |
| annegentle | tripleo will have to be documented, not sure it has to be us, but we have to keep it in mind | 14:45 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: oh good :) | 14:46 |
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| annegentle | Question on install guide: shall we keep backporting another month, then let neutron have their way with ml2? | 14:46 |
| dianefleming | comment: backports are awful - we need a better way! | 14:47 |
| dianefleming | I mean, doing backports is awful, not the actual content | 14:47 |
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| annegentle | dianefleming: we should be able to automate somewhat | 14:48 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: someone mentioned some scripts in the autodoc session | 14:48 |
| dianefleming | that would be awesome! | 14:48 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: yeah it would be! | 14:48 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: but it's only about another month of pain | 14:48 |
| dianefleming | oh, and i enjoy pain! (not) | 14:49 |
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| annegentle | :) | 14:50 |
| annegentle | Also, I'm surprised shaunm isn't patching more, anyone hear from him last week? | 14:50 |
| annegentle | or maybe he is and I don't see it soon enough? | 14:50 |
| Loquacity | he reviewed one of mine at some point, i think | 14:50 |
| Loquacity | so he's alive | 14:50 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: ok, that's good :) | 14:51 |
| Loquacity | ;) | 14:51 |
| annegentle | Ok, what's next? | 14:51 |
| annegentle | Meeting times! | 14:51 |
| annegentle | #topic Meeting times, office hours | 14:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Meeting times, office hours (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 14:51 | |
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| annegentle | Loquacity: if you're willing to run one at those times, it would be great! | 14:52 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: I can join most weeks | 14:52 |
| Loquacity | actually i volunteered tom to do it | 14:52 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: ha ha :) Did he agree? | 14:52 |
| Loquacity | considering this seems to have morphed into "lana offered" i guess not ;) | 14:52 |
| Loquacity | but either way | 14:52 |
| Loquacity | we can argue about it i guess | 14:52 |
| summerlong | Is there a reason for moving 13:00 to 14:00? | 14:53 |
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| Loquacity | yeah, there was a bit of confusion there for us this week | 14:53 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: sorry I really thought you were offering, and I'd prefer you to do it, Tom gets too "busy" | 14:53 |
| Loquacity | annegentle: yeah, that's cool :) | 14:53 |
| Loquacity | i'm on payroll now ;) | 14:53 |
| annegentle | summerlong: honestly I think I screwed up due to daylight savings | 14:53 |
| summerlong | :D | 14:54 |
| nermina | annegentle, now that various things have settled, perhaps we could set up another task list for the install guide. we may have some resources now to test and provide deployment info. | 14:54 |
| annegentle | nermina: oh that's nice | 14:54 |
| annegentle | Loquacity: and Thank You! | 14:54 |
| Loquacity | np | 14:54 |
| annegentle | #agreed alternating meeting times | 14:54 |
| annegentle | #action Anne Gentle to update ical feed | 14:55 |
| dianefleming | cool | 14:55 |
| annegentle | #agreed Lana run 1st and 3rd Tuesdays, Anne run 2nd and 4th | 14:55 |
| annegentle | Ok! | 14:55 |
| annegentle | #topic Open discussion | 14:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: DocTeamMeeting)" | 14:55 | |
| annegentle | #link http://aa4698cc2bf4ab7e5907-ed3df21bb39de4e57eec9a20aa0b8711.r41.cf2.rackcdn.com/Deployments-IceHouse-v1.1.pdf | 14:56 |
| annegentle | PDF of user survey results for Oct 2013 | 14:56 |
| sgordon | :D | 14:56 |
| annegentle | #link http://www.slideshare.net/openstack/openstack-user-survey-october-2013 | 14:56 |
| sgordon | thanks | 14:56 |
| annegentle | :) | 14:56 |
| summerlong | thx | 14:56 |
| summerlong | my eyes thank you | 14:57 |
| nermina | lol | 14:57 |
| annegentle | hee | 14:57 |
| annegentle | Couple of things -- would you like a Google Hangout next week to talk about icehouse planning? | 14:58 |
| annegentle | And, should we start thinking about another docs boot camp in Feb 2014? | 14:58 |
| nermina | yes and yes | 14:58 |
| Loquacity | +1 to both | 14:58 |
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| annegentle | Also, related to the operations guide, I'm thinking about a 2-day "maintenance" sprint in January, lorin1 are you up for that? | 14:58 |
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| annegentle | #link http://www.openstack.org/blog/2013/11/openstack-operations-guide-now-an-oreilly-early-edition/ | 14:59 |
| summerlong | Speaking of which, I've got RH people trying to decide on a good ops person to help. | 14:59 |
| annegentle | lorin1: I talked to Jon and Everett, they're up for it, need to find Joe too | 14:59 |
| nermina | congrats on the o'reilly deal. that was a major feat! | 14:59 |
| Loquacity | awesome \o/ | 14:59 |
| annegentle | summerlong: that would be great. I keep telling Rackspace Private Cloud to get on it also | 14:59 |
| annegentle | nermina: thank you! | 14:59 |
| annegentle | Oh yeah, I tweeted it out before going on stage for the "Meet the TC" panel, and didn't realize all the epub links were broken. Gah. | 15:00 |
| annegentle | Fixed it right after but it took some running around. I should've tested the links better. I literally had the wrong file name in the HTML file. Sigh. | 15:00 |
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| annegentle | Ok, outta time... | 15:00 |
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| nermina | it's all agile | 15:01 |
| annegentle | Carry on in #openstack-doc. Thanks everyone! | 15:01 |
| annegentle | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| lorin1 | annegentle: it's possible | 15:01 |
| Loquacity | thanks annegentle :) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 12 15:01:09 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-11-12-14.06.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-11-12-14.06.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteammeeting/2013/docteammeeting.2013-11-12-14.06.log.html | 15:01 |
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| annegentle | lorin1: ok excellent | 15:01 |
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| dianefleming | bye | 15:02 |
| * Loquacity meanders off to bed | 15:04 | |
| Loquacity | o/ | 15:04 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | UTC, not adjusted for DST | 16:07 |
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| MikeSpreitzer | OpenStack meetings are scheduled by UTC | 16:08 |
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| primemin1sterp | #startmeeting | 16:10 |
| openstack | primemin1sterp: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 16:10 |
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| primemin1sterp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:10 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 12 16:10:16 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primemin1sterp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:10 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:10 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:10 |
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| primemin1sterp | not sure if anyone is around today, I know some are still in transit from the summit | 16:11 |
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| primemin1sterp | closing the meeting until next week | 16:11 |
| primemin1sterp | #endmeeting | 16:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:12 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 12 16:12:01 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:12 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-11-12-16.10.html | 16:12 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-11-12-16.10.txt | 16:12 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2013/hyper_v.2013-11-12-16.10.log.html | 16:12 |
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| ayoung | KEYSTONE! Right? | 18:01 |
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| morganfainberg | ... | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | \o | 18:01 |
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| gyee | \o | 18:02 |
| ayoung | dolphm_food, put that food away | 18:02 |
| ayoung | Keystoners get the munchies | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, lol | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | dolphm_food, time change | 18:05 |
| ayoung | meeting time | 18:05 |
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| ayoung | boden, topol bknudson | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | no stevemar | 18:05 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, and Jamie is still touring in HK | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, right. | 18:06 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, and you know the QA folks are going to be in here right at 2, so no late meeting | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yep. | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, but with only 3 of us, it feels kindof silly. | 18:07 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, want to pull the trigger on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52732/ | 18:07 |
| ayoung | we can do a bug triage | 18:07 |
| ayoung | that is never silly, and much needed | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i meant to do that last night, but i fell alseep | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, fair enough bug triage works for me | 18:08 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, nah, I fixed today based on comments | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i meant review it | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | more in depth | 18:08 |
| ayoung | New and undecided bugs https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.importance%3Alist=UNKNOWN&field.importance%3Alist=UNDECIDED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.structural_subscriber=&field.tag=&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.aff | 18:09 |
| ayoung | ects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | oh i did review that one fairly in depth | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | wow. yeah that one looks good. pushing make it go button | 18:09 |
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| gyee | ayoung, I am working on the SSL cert auth bp | 18:10 |
| gyee | should have a patch by end of this week | 18:10 |
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| ayoung | gyee, so...that should be a fairly big change | 18:11 |
| ayoung | gyee, instead of usering token id, you are going to build the authorization context in the middleware and consume that throughout, right? | 18:11 |
| gyee | ayoung, not really, just a new middleware and some changes in common/controllers | 18:11 |
| ayoung | gyee, we want to remove all of the get_token_by_id type calls and use the context from the middleware | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, which one is that? | 18:12 |
| gyee | ayoung, yes, I'll build the auth_context in middleware | 18:12 |
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| morganfainberg | oh not a bug? | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | bp | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | i see | 18:12 |
| ayoung | gyee, so for the case where a use submits a token (current impl) we need to do the same thing. | 18:12 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/client-ssl-certificate-authorization | 18:12 |
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| gyee | ayoung, I can consolidate that code | 18:13 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, this is going to make Keystone work like a normal application, instead of having to get a token and then submit that token back to Keystone to do anything | 18:13 |
| gyee | but do you want it all in a single patch? | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, hehe nice. | 18:13 |
| ayoung | gyee, I'd like to do it in two patches | 18:13 |
| gyee | ayoung, sure, make sense | 18:13 |
| ayoung | one for the clean up, and then a second for SSL | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | ++ on that | 18:14 |
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| morganfainberg | will be easier to see the changes | 18:14 |
| gyee | ayoung, morganfainberg, https://review.openstack.org/55906 | 18:15 |
| gyee | that's for migrating password into credentials | 18:15 |
| ayoung | looking | 18:15 |
| ayoung | gyee...that really, really really frightens me. THe more I think about it, the more I am convinced that it is a bad idea for Keyston to allow that except in the case of the SQL ID backend | 18:16 |
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| gyee | what's the problem? | 18:16 |
| ayoung | gyee, LDAP | 18:16 |
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| ayoung | gyee, If I have a user in LDAP, I don't think that we are going to want to store their passwords in SQL | 18:17 |
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| ayoung | same deal with Federated | 18:17 |
| gyee | ayoung, we don't have to | 18:17 |
| gyee | we'll have to make the enforcement configurable | 18:17 |
| ayoung | mult password only makes sense if you are the Identity provider yourself, hence realy only the SQL use case | 18:17 |
| gyee | ayoung, right, but we should be flexible enough to support both use cases | 18:18 |
| ayoung | gyee, as such, I am thinking it should be an extension. | 18:18 |
| gyee | ayoung, I am fine either way as long we cover both | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, it would be easier to control edge cases as an extension | 18:19 |
| ayoung | gyee, I would so much rather they just progress directly on to the X509 apporach you are going to implement any way | 18:19 |
| ayoung | Passwords are so second millenium | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | edge cases e.g. ldap, federation, etc | 18:20 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, sure, I am fine with it as an extension and disable by default | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, ok | 18:20 |
| gyee | ayoung, +++++ for PKI | 18:20 |
| gyee | but we have to get there first | 18:20 |
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| gyee | I would be the first one to push for killing passwords once we have a mature PKI in OpenStack | 18:21 |
| ayoung | gyee, so lets focus on getting there | 18:21 |
| ayoung | gyee, you can always do what they are suggesting using an external Basic-Auth provider | 18:21 |
| ayoung | the only thing we don't provide is a way to map REMOTE_USER to something other than the userid field | 18:22 |
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| gyee | ayoung, not sure how basic-auth would solve this problem | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, external user password support | 18:25 |
| ayoung | gyee, if they used basic_auth, they would get REMOTE_USER set. THen you could have REMOTE_USER set via mod_auth sql | 18:25 |
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| ayoung | It would have the same effect, but it would effectively externaize the problem, making both your team and me happy. Mostly me. | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, what ayoung just said. not bound by the password in keystone that way, mod_auth is the holder of all things password. | 18:25 |
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| ayoung | gyee, then, if you want to link up mod_auth_sql to the Credentials table, you should have a workable Admin API as well. | 18:28 |
| topol | Oh crap!!! | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | topol, you are not the only one that messed up the time change | 18:28 |
| dstanek | sorry guys i forgot to account for DST | 18:29 |
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| topol | this started 30 minutes ago didnt it? | 18:29 |
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| ayoung | topol, just the 3 of us assigning all open bugs to you | 18:29 |
| topol | is dolph here? | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | topol, nope. | 18:29 |
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| ayoung | topol, so..I think what gyee and I were discussing involves you based on your interest in policy | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | here's the scoop | 18:30 |
| ayoung | we want to make the Keystone server expand the creds given in to authZ data in middleware | 18:30 |
| ayoung | that way, regardless of token or, say Client Cert auth, we can apply the same policy to it | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | the first step is a patch I just submitted | 18:31 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52732/ | 18:32 |
| topol | link? | 18:32 |
| topol | perfect Ill take a look | 18:32 |
| ayoung | with that the auth pipeline can do more | 18:32 |
| gyee | ayoung, morganfainberg, are we saying we want to make all auths external? | 18:32 |
| ayoung | topol, understand the context first: I think it means that we need to take what happens in the auth/controller/authenticate function and do it in middleware | 18:33 |
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| topol | why the need to move the function? | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, it would solve the problem you're trying to solve. it's not a requirement though | 18:33 |
| gyee | and manage the users externally? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | if a user passes in a token, we do the same thing: expand it out to the set of roles etc | 18:33 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, not sure if that's a realistic expectation at this point | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, thats why either that or as an extension really are the options | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | gyee, so not manage the users externally, but rather the authentication mechanism would be step one (external, set REMOTE_USER) and then step 2 would be expand out to the authorization context | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, the external auth route requires no extra keystone code. it's already there. REMOTE_USER just does the password auth step for you | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | in the external model. | 18:35 |
| ayoung | then, by the time the user requested a token, we would bascially have all of the data to do that. Just that admin operations in Keystone would be based on an unscoped token...or potentially one ijplicitly scoped to the default domain? | 18:36 |
| ayoung | Currenlt,y unscoped has no roles on it, and that is a problem | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, but an extension for that would also work if that really is the path of least resistance | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | (multi password that is) | 18:36 |
| ayoung | If a user authenticates with Kerberos or Client Cert, you will have the same issue: how to get past the policy check | 18:36 |
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| gyee | ayoung, as Mark mentioned, its getting the freaking cert or setting up Kerberos that is problematic today | 18:37 |
| ayoung | gyee, same issue with Basic- Auth, though | 18:37 |
| gyee | we have use cases all over the place today | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, i think the general consensus is REMOTE_USER and external is better, but extension is also acceptable. care to disagree ayoung? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | gyee, so lets focus on your X509 use case first | 18:38 |
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| ayoung | I think the multi-password thing will be covered if we do it right | 18:39 |
| gyee | ayoung, I don't think its a realistic expectation right now, long term yes | 18:39 |
| gyee | I would love x.509 long term | 18:39 |
| ayoung | for X509, either the user submits a project or domain, or they get an unscoped token | 18:39 |
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| gyee | but I have to solve the use cases for now | 18:40 |
| ayoung | we can do project/domain in a cookie or external header | 18:40 |
| ayoung | or we can do the "default project" thing that Keystone does now | 18:40 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, we have real customers asking for this solution right now | 18:41 |
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| gyee | getting PKI up and running is not realistic for them right now | 18:41 |
| topol | gyee what is your use case? | 18:41 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, right. hence why i don't see an extension as being a bad approach. it hits the "right now" case since X509 (as you claim) isn't realistic right now | 18:41 |
| gyee | topol, use multi-passwords | 18:41 |
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| topol | oh, Marcs stuff correct? | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | topol, yes | 18:42 |
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| gyee | morganfainberg, I'd say extension now, and push for x.509 long term | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, i am fine with that approach | 18:42 |
| topol | +1 on an extension. Im pretty sure we will need that as well | 18:42 |
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| gyee | for x.509 to work, we'll need 1) CA with Barbican, and 2) get the revocation stuff iron out | 18:43 |
| gyee | I'll try to help with both | 18:43 |
| henrynash | (henry joined…..sorry, first time back in UK since time zone change and messed up) | 18:43 |
| gyee | love to have a CA service in OpenStack | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ok another topic. https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1247703 this is an issue that RHEL has an old memcache library | 18:44 |
| topol | all of us were on time, henrynash :-) | 18:44 |
| henrynash | damn | 18:44 |
| gyee | heh | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, we can get it updated in RDO if needs be | 18:44 |
| * topol on the internet nobody knows when you show up 30 minutes late if they show up 45 minutes late | 18:44 | |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, good | 18:44 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, I think that is covered already | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, if i can open bugs / help drive please let me know. | 18:45 |
| ayoung | let me look in RH Bugzilla | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, it's affecting havana release | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | the minimum version should be 1.48 | 18:45 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, Use the EPEL version | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | RHOS will use that as well | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | ok. i'll comment on the bug then. | 18:45 |
| ayoung | RHOS Havana is not out yet | 18:45 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, ok | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i'll also get a global requirements patch submitted back to stable/havana for memcache>=1.48 | 18:46 |
| ayoung | So you'll end up replaceing the version of several RHEL libraries with the EPEL versions until then | 18:46 |
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| morganfainberg | just to keep the loop closed for testing etc | 18:46 |
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| henrynash | question: did anyone see any sessions about ditching pagination and/or filtering? | 18:48 |
| gyee | henrynash, that session was cancelled | 18:48 |
| henrynash | dolphm had said there would topics on that (Horizon?) but I never saw any | 18:48 |
| henrynash | ahh | 18:48 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, can you see https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=986423 | 18:49 |
| topol | so instead of ditching pagination we ditched the session? | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, yes | 18:49 |
| gyee | topol, the person proposed the session wasn't there I think | 18:49 |
| henrynash | ok, I'll put that on next weeks agenda…do we go forward with our filtering/limit changes…. | 18:49 |
| gyee | I think some users would still want pagination | 18:50 |
| gyee | just not sure if we can support it across the board | 18:50 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, i'll put a link into the bug to that bz ticket | 18:51 |
| henrynash | gyee: agreed…I think I had them as separate patches anyway | 18:51 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I think so. I would like the rule of thumb to be "you have to know what you want" and make it such that no results get returned without an expliocit filter...I realize that is too draconian for backwards compat, though. Lets keep it as a design goal. | 18:51 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, let me | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung ok | 18:51 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, do you have the Laucnpad ID for the bug? | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1247703 | 18:52 |
| topol | ayoung, I thought we talked about if results came back were less than some constant (say 100) then you didnt need a filter | 18:53 |
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| topol | for small test environemnts | 18:53 |
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| bknudson | what if it takes 10 hours to figure out how many are to be returned? | 18:53 |
| bknudson | is this about bandwidth or cpu? | 18:54 |
| topol | bknudson, good point | 18:54 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, if you refresh BZ, you will see that there is now an "external tracker" link | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, nice | 18:54 |
| ayoung | topol, yeah, I think for short lists that makes sense, but for long lists, always showing the first 100 is dumb. | 18:55 |
| ayoung | The rule should be "show the user what they most commonly want to see" | 18:55 |
| topol | long lists would return "Too many results to display, please refine your search" | 18:55 |
| henrynash | ayoung: for long lists, the only point of a limit is so that a cloud provider can stop siome dumb query cheqingup lots of resource | 18:55 |
| gyee | topol, ++ | 18:55 |
| gyee | usability 101 | 18:55 |
| topol | Our internal employee LDAP behaves that way | 18:55 |
| gyee | topol, can't say the same for our internal LDAP :( | 18:56 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, feel free to link any RPM based issues from Upstream to Bz, and tag me on them. I'm going to be doing aa Triage later on today doing just that, trying to figure out what we need to address for RDO etc | 18:56 |
| topol | gyee has LDAP envy... | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, sounds good. i think that is hte only one i've seen | 18:56 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, quick searches aren't showing new-ish python-memcache for EPEL either. | 18:57 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, i might be looking in thr wrong place though | 18:57 |
| ayoung | henrynash, that is my point, if you don't know what you want, we should provide a some guidance, but not blindly return a random list. If we were talking REST, I would almost say the /users should never return a list, and if you want an explicit list, you would first create a search object ( a new named URL) | 18:57 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, hmmm, apevec was going to push it through. | 18:58 |
| ayoung | OK, 2 minutes before QA invades. Anyone have any last things.? | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/6/x86_64/repoview/letter_p.group.html not seeing a package in there. | 18:58 |
| gyee | ayoung, there's a famous LDAP error, refuse to perform | 18:59 |
| bknudson | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55931/ | 18:59 |
| topol | gyee, so many jokes... so little time :) | 18:59 |
| ayoung | bknudson, OK, I'll look | 18:59 |
| bknudson | then can do https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49190/ | 19:00 |
| henrynash | it's pumpkin time.... | 19:00 |
| dstanek | i'd love some input on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-test-restructuring | 19:00 |
| bknudson | although I didn't look closely at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/49190/... it's an automatic one. | 19:00 |
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| topol | should we stick around for when dolphm shows up? | 19:00 |
| bknudson | this meeting was cancelled by the way | 19:01 |
| dstanek | when Jamie is back is want to see if we can work together on the existing testing blueprint | 19:01 |
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| henrynash | bknudson: indeed it was | 19:01 |
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| fungi | did the keystone meeting end? (doesn't look like anyone officially started it through the bot) | 19:01 |
| ayoung | bknudson, might have been jumping the gun, but I just approved that. | 19:01 |
| morganfainberg | fungi we didn't oops | 19:01 |
| ayoung | fungi, nope, as it was just a bunch of us kibbitzing | 19:01 |
| morganfainberg | keystone -> #openstack-dev :) | 19:01 |
| fungi | okay, just checking--infra was supposed to start about 2min ago | 19:01 |
| ayoung | fungi, yep | 19:01 |
| topol | productive meeting though | 19:01 |
| lbragstad | did the keystone meeting changes times officially or is it just this once? | 19:02 |
| fungi | thanks! | 19:02 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, Keystone stays constant | 19:02 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, meetings are UTC ;) | 19:02 |
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| ayoung | it was the US that chagned | 19:02 |
| ayoung | DST | 19:02 |
| lbragstad | ahh right | 19:02 |
| topol | Unless you live in Arizona | 19:02 |
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| fungi | infra team powers ACTIVATE (form of... a meeting!) | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:02 |
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| pabelanger | well hello there | 19:03 |
| clarkb | hi there | 19:03 |
| fungi | mordred around? | 19:03 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | #startmeeting | 19:03 |
| openstack | fungi: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 19:03 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 12 19:03:52 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| olaph | o/ | 19:03 |
| clarkb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:04 |
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| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-10-29-19.03.html | 19:04 |
| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
| fungi | #action jeblair move tarballs.o.o and include 50gb space for heat/trove images | 19:05 |
| fungi | clarkb: decommission old etherpad server eventually (after the summit) | 19:05 |
| fungi | add to the to do pile i guess | 19:05 |
| fungi | carry forward? | 19:05 |
| clarkb | yup, I hadn't planned on getting to that today, but do plan on doing it this week | 19:05 |
| * ttx lurks | 19:05 | |
| clarkb | so by the time of next meeting that should be done | 19:05 |
| fungi | #action clarkb decommission old etherpad server eventually (after the summit) | 19:05 |
| fungi | #topic Trove testing (mordred, hub_cap) | 19:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Trove testing (mordred, hub_cap) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:06 | |
| fungi | status changes there we should be aware of? | 19:06 |
| mordred | fungi: last words on this were at the summit, which I missed (damn press briefings) | 19:06 |
| ttx | clarkb: btw we got the go-ahead to EOL folsom | 19:06 |
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| fungi | i'll tack that onto the agenda | 19:07 |
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| fungi | anyone have a tl;dr redux of the summit session for trove testing? i think i was in a different session as well | 19:07 |
| clarkb | ttx: great | 19:07 |
| clarkb | I was in a different session too | 19:08 |
| clarkb | hub_cap: ^ | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | http://princessleia.com/ods/icehouse/TroveTempestTesting.txt | 19:08 |
| mordred | fungi: jeblair said there was nothing new or earthshattering | 19:08 |
| mordred | ooh | 19:08 |
| mordred | notes | 19:08 |
| fungi | wfm | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | ^^ snapshot of notes from etherpad | 19:08 |
| ttx | hub_cap is not around, losing big in Vegas | 19:08 |
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| fungi | if you're gonna lose, lose big | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | but yeah, nothing crazy, publish images to tarballs.o.o and go from there | 19:09 |
| fungi | okay cool | 19:09 |
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| fungi | moving along then... | 19:09 |
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| fungi | #topic Tripleo testing (lifeless, pleia2) | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tripleo testing (lifeless, pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
| fungi | i KNOW there was a lot discussed for this | 19:09 |
| pleia2 | lots of chats about this at the summit, I'm now kanbaning it with dprince and derekh | 19:09 |
| pleia2 | (derekh made a trello board for it this morning) | 19:10 |
| fungi | you just gerunded a borrowed word ;) | 19:10 |
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| pleia2 | hehe | 19:10 |
| fungi | sorry, grammar thread on the ml has gotten to me | 19:10 |
| mordred | wow | 19:10 |
| dprince | pleia2: we are looking for you to fill in some of the gaps on the board while we get ramped up | 19:10 |
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| mordred | that's twice today trello has been brought up in an infra context | 19:11 |
| pleia2 | dprince: great, will do | 19:11 |
| *** dolphm_food is now known as dolphm | 19:11 | |
| dprince | pleia2: anything derek and I can work on in parallel, etc | 19:11 |
| pleia2 | mordred: tripleo bleeding over in this case :) | 19:11 |
| * mordred imagines somewhere in china, jeblair felt a sharp pain | 19:11 | |
| lifeless | pleia2: huh, a new board; thats interesting! I will watch with interest [risk of fragmenting attention] | 19:11 |
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| mordred | fungi: big ticket item I believe is lifeless success, or seeming success, in getting a bazillion companies to donate racks of gear to his cloud | 19:12 |
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| lifeless | mordred: our cloud | 19:12 |
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| * dprince suspicious about strings being attached to free cloud hardware | 19:12 | |
| ttx | mordred: summit week seem to be big in pretending to donate stuff or people to various causes | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | lifeless: heh, I woke up to it :) but not a terrible idea at the moment | 19:12 |
| pleia2 | lifeless: I hear you mentioned some heat stuff at summit, so it would be nice to have a chat with you, dprince and derekh tomorrow or so to make sure we're still on track | 19:13 |
| * mordred has faith in lifeless and his ability to beat them in to submission | 19:13 | |
| ttx | mordred: the natural pessimistic in me would suggest to wait until reality strikes | 19:13 |
| mordred | yes | 19:14 |
| lifeless | pleia2: heat cluster to define the set of deployed emulated bm test environments. | 19:14 |
| lifeless | pleia2: just detail really | 19:14 |
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| pleia2 | lifeless: oh ok, this just relies on something heat can already do, yeah? | 19:14 |
| lifeless | pleia2: totally, it's just a template saying we want 10 such machines | 19:15 |
| lifeless | rather than spin 10 up by hand | 19:15 |
| pleia2 | great | 19:15 |
| dprince | lifeless: I'm confused. I thought the TE Builder just lived on an undercloud machine somewhere? | 19:15 |
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| pleia2 | dprince: maybe move this bit over to the tripleo meeting in -alt? (I think we can move on from -infra topic) | 19:17 |
| lifeless | dprince: yes, you're confused. lets sync when I'm not running a meeting opposite this :) - right after perhaps? | 19:17 |
| fungi | so anyway, we should probably stick to status updates here and hash out tripleo details elsewhere for sake of time | 19:17 |
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| pleia2 | fungi: yep, let's move on | 19:18 |
| fungi | cool | 19:18 |
| fungi | #topic Wsme / pecan testing (sdague, dhellman) | 19:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Wsme / pecan testing (sdague, dhellman) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:18 | |
| clarkb | I volunteered to help with this in a summit session | 19:18 |
| fungi | fun! | 19:19 |
| fungi | where is it stuck for the moment? | 19:19 |
| clarkb | once we clean up folsom and add havana jobs I am going to take a good look at the existing tempest/devstack jobs and take a stab at retemplating them to removing a bunch of the common noise | 19:19 |
| clarkb | that should make it easy to add tempest jobs for WSME/pecan that aren't the same as the existing jobs to prevent mutual gating | 19:19 |
| fungi | ahh, right, being able to get branch selection working for those | 19:20 |
| clarkb | the big problem right now is we need new jobs to prevent nova being gated on WSME/pecan | 19:20 |
| clarkb | that should happen as a side effect of refactoring the job templates | 19:20 |
| fungi | so that we test released wsme/pecan on nova changes, but branch tip wsme/pecan on their own changes | 19:21 |
| clarkb | correct | 19:21 |
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| fungi | any other tidbits of note? | 19:21 |
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| clarkb | I have some ideas of what the refactor may look like but I think I need to wait for the cleaned up jobs before taking these ideas seriously | 19:22 |
| clarkb | so I won't bore you with them now | 19:22 |
| fungi | #topic New etherpad.o.o server and migration (clarkb) | 19:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New etherpad.o.o server and migration (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:22 | |
| fungi | best summit etherpad experience yet | 19:22 |
| fungi | kudos, clarkb! | 19:22 |
| clarkb | it didn't completely fall over! | 19:22 |
| clarkb | the RTT between HKG and DFW was painful | 19:23 |
| pleia2 | it was great :) | 19:23 |
| clarkb | but other than that the server seemed to be fine | 19:23 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:23 |
| sdague | pleia2 | 19:23 |
| clarkb | the remaining work here is to get rid of the old server now that we have a backlog of backups on the new server | 19:23 |
| sdague | pleia2's graphs of tcp connects were awesome :) | 19:23 |
| clarkb | I plan to do that this week | 19:23 |
| fungi | and we've already got the related action item carried forward for that | 19:23 |
| pleia2 | hooray for cacti | 19:23 |
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| fungi | anything else there before we move along? | 19:24 |
| pleia2 | (I included a capture from cacti in blog post + twitter) | 19:24 |
| clarkb | fungi: nothing else from me | 19:24 |
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| fungi | pleia2: got a link? | 19:24 |
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| * fungi likes reading infra-centric blog entries | 19:24 | |
| pleia2 | fungi: end of the post http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=8644 | 19:25 |
| fungi | #link http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=8644 | 19:25 |
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| fungi | wowie. nice! | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | (there are 4 posts, that's the one with etherpad) | 19:26 |
| fungi | #topic Retiring https://github.com/openstack-ci | 19:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Retiring https://github.com/openstack-ci (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:26 | |
| fungi | is this a stale agenda item, or do we need to discuss further? | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | oh, I forgot to talk about this with jeblair | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | push to next meeting | 19:27 |
| fungi | i guess we can leave it on the agenda and bring him in on the discussion next week | 19:27 |
| mordred | yah | 19:27 |
| clarkb | ya I think we need jeblair's opinion | 19:27 |
| fungi | #topic Savanna testing | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Savanna testing (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:27 | |
| mordred | sergey doesn't seem to be here | 19:28 |
| fungi | do we have savanna people in here who wanted to discuss testing? | 19:28 |
| fungi | yeah, not finding him | 19:28 |
| fungi | going once | 19:28 |
| fungi | twice | 19:28 |
| fungi | #topic Goodbye Folsom (ttx, clarkb, fungi) | 19:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Goodbye Folsom (ttx, clarkb, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:28 | |
| mordred | WOO | 19:28 |
| pleia2 | \o/ | 19:28 |
| * mordred is excited | 19:28 | |
| fungi | so i think the order should be: 1. abandon all open folsom changes, 2. tag current branch tip, 3. remove jobs, 4. delete branches | 19:29 |
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| fungi | that sound sane? | 19:29 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes sounds good | 19:29 |
| clarkb | and a follow up to that is to add havana jobs | 19:29 |
| fungi | right, i'm fine doing those in the same change if we want, though maybe a pair of changes would be better for atomicity | 19:30 |
| clarkb | pair of chnages would be good | 19:30 |
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| anteaya | pair of changes | 19:30 |
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| fungi | ttx: any input on the folsom eol plan above? | 19:32 |
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| mordred | fungi: I think there is a race | 19:33 |
| mordred | I think you want to remove the jobs first | 19:33 |
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| ttx | fungi: nope sounds good, looks close enought to waht was done for previous EOLs | 19:33 |
| mordred | that prevents movement | 19:33 |
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| mordred | then tag branch tip | 19:33 |
| fungi | okay, works for me | 19:34 |
| mordred | then delete branches, and I don't think you need to abandon the changes | 19:34 |
| fungi | so... 1. remove jobs, 2. abandon all open folsom changes, 3. tag current branch tip, 4. delete branches | 19:34 |
| fungi | oh | 19:35 |
| fungi | leave changes open? | 19:35 |
| mordred | why not? | 19:35 |
| mordred | I don't think they'll show once the branch goes away | 19:35 |
| fungi | they show up in the all open changes list, but that's the only reason i have | 19:35 |
| fungi | oh, maybe | 19:35 |
| mordred | oh. well, if they do, then we should abandon them | 19:35 |
| clarkb | it gives closure to the changes in a concrete way, I am on board with deleting them | 19:36 |
| clarkb | er abandoning them | 19:36 |
| mordred | I'm ok with it | 19:36 |
| mordred | there are 5 of them after al | 19:36 |
| mordred | and two of them are fungi's | 19:36 |
| fungi | yeah, i'm a problem, i know ;) | 19:36 |
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| fungi | okay, well we'll try to knock that out this week, so... | 19:37 |
| fungi | #action ttx, clarkb, fungi EOL Folsom branches | 19:37 |
| fungi | other concerns/ideas? | 19:38 |
| clarkb | we should send an announcement to the lsits | 19:38 |
| fungi | that ^ | 19:39 |
| clarkb | or is it better to be quiet aobut these things? I don't remember if we anounced it in a wide manner last time | 19:39 |
| fungi | let's consider that step #5 | 19:39 |
| fungi | ttx? | 19:39 |
| clarkb | ttx: ^ is that something you want to do? | 19:39 |
| ttx | clarkb: only if I'm needed to make it happen | 19:39 |
| ttx | oh, misreading | 19:40 |
| clarkb | ttx: fungi and I can do that actual work, curious if you want it to be announced | 19:40 |
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| ttx | I think we should do whatever was done for essex/diablo... if we did nothing then, I suggest we do nothing now | 19:40 |
| fungi | right. main reasons i have ttx in there are in case he wants to sign tags and send an announcement, as release manager | 19:40 |
| fungi | though if apevec or adam_g are a better fit for that, covering stable release management, that's cool too | 19:41 |
| clarkb | a quick grep through mail doesn't show any announcements for diablo and essex | 19:42 |
| fungi | i'll dredge the likely ml archives from the time period of the eol tags | 19:42 |
| fungi | oh, clarkb just did | 19:42 |
| ttx | fungi: how about a,nnouncig it on openstack-stable-maint to make sure apevec and adam_g know about it | 19:42 |
| clarkb | well I did a 'EOL essex' search | 19:42 |
| ttx | announcing* | 19:42 |
| clarkb | ttx: ++ | 19:42 |
| fungi | ttx: sounds good. i'll do that | 19:42 |
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| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:44 | |
| fungi | 15 minutes left. anybody have anything exciting they want to talk about? | 19:44 |
| fungi | or complain about? ;) | 19:45 |
| pleia2 | I need a nap :) | 19:45 |
| anteaya | me too | 19:45 |
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| UtahDave | fungi: Is there anything I can help with to finish up the jenkins Salt stuff? | 19:45 |
| clarkb | pleia2: yesterday actually wasn't too bad. today is worse. I am bad at this jetlag thing | 19:45 |
| pabelanger | So, if there is time, I wanted to talk about importing packaging into -infra. There was a topic on the mailing list about it | 19:46 |
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| pabelanger | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2013-October/000380.html | 19:46 |
| fungi | UtahDave: yeah, you had said something about getting me some pointers to the right docs for setting up cascading task dependencies with reacrots | 19:46 |
| fungi | er, reactors | 19:46 |
| fungi | pabelanger: there is time | 19:46 |
| UtahDave | fungi: Yeah, I can get you some info on that. Is that what you want to start with? | 19:47 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: it looked like consensus was to put the package repos in openstack-infra. I like them living there. I think we should have an openstack-infra-packagers group that get +2/+A on those repos | 19:47 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: have you added new projects to our systems yet? the best documentation for it is the stackforge documentation but you essentially s/stackforge/openstack-infra/ and it should work | 19:48 |
| fungi | UtahDave: i think that's my next item (checking the etherpad for that) | 19:48 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: http://ci.openstack.org/stackforge.html | 19:48 |
| clarkb | (I think you are relatively familiar with the process though) | 19:48 |
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| UtahDave | ok, fungi. I'll get that for you later today. | 19:48 |
| pabelanger | clarkb, Right, so I guess the issue was just naming the repos and stuff. Based on what people think is good, I can do the leg with to get it imported. | 19:49 |
| clarkb | I would just propose a change that adds the things, make sure that the source repos are ready to be sucked into gerrit (remove unneeded branches and so on) then we can approve and we are off to the races | 19:49 |
| fungi | UtahDave: yep, that's the next item i had on the plan... | 19:49 |
| pabelanger | Then we can have some discussions about building out the repo infra for APT and RPM | 19:49 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: ah naming stuff | 19:49 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/salt-slavery-and-puppetry | 19:49 |
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| pabelanger | For example, I have zuul-deb in my personal repos on github, so not sure if we want something like zuul-packaging | 19:50 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: I am not super familiar with this stuff. would we need different package repos for apt and rpm or is the resulting artifact independent of source? | 19:50 |
| fungi | clarkb: we can probably get by with one repo tracking multiple distros/releases, but now sure whether subdirectories or branches are a better fit | 19:51 |
| pabelanger | clarkb, well, I could see 1 repo, but different branches (deb and rpm). But honestly, I think it comes down to what people prefer | 19:51 |
| clarkb | pabelanger: fungi: gotcha | 19:51 |
| clarkb | I am happy with zuul-packaging in that case | 19:51 |
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| fungi | pabelanger: i suspect a branch for "rpm" wouldn't work well to suit, say, sles and fedora both. likely it would need to be per distro+release | 19:52 |
| pabelanger | fungi, agreed | 19:52 |
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| fungi | and, for that matter, you may want to even track something like ubuntu precise and trusty separately | 19:52 |
| fungi | or debian wheezy and jessie | 19:53 |
| fungi | et cetera | 19:53 |
| pabelanger | Indeed | 19:53 |
| pabelanger | so, in general I think people are onboard with the idea | 19:53 |
| fungi | so i think the big remaining question is whether branches or directories work better for this purpose | 19:53 |
| clarkb | I am comfortable with git so branches :) | 19:54 |
| fungi | i'm leaning toward branches | 19:54 |
| pabelanger | I too like branches | 19:54 |
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| fungi | and it may make use of things like debian's git-buildpackage a little smoother (or it might get in the way even worse--we should obviously choose our branch names carefully so as to avoid that possibility) | 19:55 |
| clarkb | probably worth setting up a minimal set of branches that work before we import into gerrit | 19:55 |
| clarkb | easier to sort this stuff out before we add gerrit to the mix | 19:56 |
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| pabelanger | fungi, Ya, the zuul packaging for debian is already setup to use git-buildpackage | 19:56 |
| fungi | keen | 19:56 |
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| fungi | we should also have a small master branch with global documentation about the repo and how/why it's organized that way | 19:57 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:57 |
| fungi | because people will be confused when there's no master branch | 19:58 |
| clarkb | doing that makes the default branch non specific so no distro favoritism :) | 19:58 |
| fungi | might be able to include workflow suggestions/links in there as well | 19:58 |
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| pabelanger | okay, I can get started with something and get some feedback from you guys in -infra | 19:59 |
| fungi | excellent | 19:59 |
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| fungi | and that's just about it for time | 19:59 |
| fungi | so until next time... | 19:59 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 12 20:00:00 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-11-12-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-11-12-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2013/infra.2013-11-12-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| ttx | Who is around for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
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| mikal | ttx: hi | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | markmc, annegentle, jgriffith, vishy, markmcclain, jeblair, lifeless, sdague: around ? | 20:00 |
| markmc | hehy | 20:00 |
| ttx | (I suspect jeblair won't be) | 20:00 |
| sdague | yes | 20:01 |
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| lifeless | ttx: yes | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 12 20:01:40 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| jgriffith | o | 20:01 |
| ttx | Welcome to the first meeting of the Icehouse TC session | 20:01 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Manila incubation request: initial discussion | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Manila incubation request: initial discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-October/016370.html | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila_Overview | 20:02 |
| ttx | Incubation requests are typically covered over two consecutive meetings. | 20:02 |
| ttx | The first week is an initial discussion so that the main issues can emerge | 20:02 |
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| ttx | and at the second one we usually conclude that discussion and start voting | 20:03 |
| ttx | Do we have anyone from Manila attending the meeting ? | 20:03 |
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| jgriffith | hmmm | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | did they know to attend? | 20:04 |
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| jgriffith | dhellmann: probably not :( | 20:04 |
| ttx | I talked to Ben last week, so yes | 20:04 |
| markmc | in fairness, it might have been hard for them to know it was this week | 20:04 |
| markmc | oh, ok | 20:04 |
| jgriffith | oh | 20:04 |
| * markmc takes that back:) | 20:04 | |
| dhellmann | yeah, I made the same assumption as markmc | 20:04 |
| jgriffith | bswartz hasn't been around yet this week | 20:04 |
| jgriffith | nor navneet | 20:04 |
| dhellmann | shall we table this until next week? | 20:04 |
| ttx | told me last week they would show up in force | 20:05 |
| sdague | so one of the things that came up in the devstack session at summit was given that devstack and devstack gate both have hooks now, stackforge jobs running that demonstrate the use of that would be really good before incubation | 20:05 |
| * dhellmann wonders if this is a timezone issue | 20:05 | |
| sdague | right, there were also time changes since the last meeting | 20:05 |
| ttx | I don't think their absence prevents us from discussing it... Just prevents them from giving early answers | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | ok | 20:05 |
| jgriffith | ttx: agreed | 20:05 |
| sdague | agreed | 20:05 |
| mordred | well, I agree with what sdague said | 20:05 |
| markmc | ttx, what's the closest thing we have to a checklist for incubation/integration applications? | 20:05 |
| mordred | I think it is not unreasonable to ask for stackforge jobs that run d-g on their code | 20:06 |
| russellb | for incubation or graduation? | 20:06 |
| sdague | for incubation | 20:06 |
| russellb | i know that's what you said, i'm asking if that's really what we want | 20:06 |
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| dhellmann | I like it, but it seems like moving the bar a lot higher | 20:07 |
| ttx | markmc: good question -- that would be considering scope, maturity and team diversity | 20:07 |
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| markmc | some history on manila: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-February/005955.html | 20:07 |
| ttx | based on previous meetings | 20:07 |
| russellb | it's a much higher bar than we've asked for in the past | 20:07 |
| markmc | i.e. when they proposed it as a set of new APIs in cinder | 20:07 |
| ttx | I had 3 questions | 20:07 |
| mikal | I'm a bit confused by the list of future developers on their wiki page | 20:07 |
| markmcclain | yeah it is a higher bar… seems more like a grad req | 20:07 |
| sdague | russellb: agreed, but as we add complexity, the fact that we currently have a bunch of integrated projects that aren't in our integrated gate, is a real problem | 20:07 |
| russellb | so require before graduation | 20:07 |
| mordred | it's a higher bar | 20:08 |
| russellb | we haven't even required *that* in the past | 20:08 |
| mordred | I say before incubation | 20:08 |
| mordred | because guess what - I'm pretty sure it was a mistake in the past to not require it | 20:08 |
| russellb | agree for graduation | 20:08 |
| sdague | yeh, I'm with mordred on this | 20:08 |
| * markmc takes some notes for them here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ManilaIncubationApplication | 20:08 | |
| mordred | and we shouldn't keep not requiring it just because we didn't in the past | 20:08 |
| mordred | this isn't a fraternity | 20:08 |
| markmcclain | ++ | 20:08 |
| jgriffith | mordred: i think I'd agree, at least some basic level | 20:08 |
| mordred | I mean, I'm not talking insane levels | 20:08 |
| mordred | but we DO have hook points now | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | I'm not arguing against the idea, but I do want to point out that one of the things we said about pre-incubated projects was that they could only expect a certain amount of help from teams like docs, infra, and qa -- are we changing that to support this new requirement? | 20:09 |
| sdague | in my ideal world, because of the d-g and devstack plugins, building a stackforge d-g job should be a couple days work by the team | 20:09 |
| sdague | it demonstrates they can run in the gate | 20:09 |
| mordred | the trove team, when they were reddwarf, seemed to figure out how to do it | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | or do we think the task is easy enough now to not need a lot of help? | 20:09 |
| ttx | I think dhellmann is spot on | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | if we think we've made it easy enough, I'm all for it | 20:09 |
| mordred | and then we rejected the patch becauase there weren't enough hook points yet | 20:09 |
| sdague | once incubated, they can land tempest tests (as we won't take them from non incubated) | 20:09 |
| mordred | it's easy - and there are existing examples that can be cargo culted | 20:09 |
| sdague | and no one graduations until they actually are integrated in the gate, so we know that all of openstack works together | 20:10 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:10 |
| lifeless | sdague: interesting; that speaks to the federated set of tests stuff I was raising with you | 20:10 |
| ttx | dhellmann: that said, stackforge projects already kind of interact with infra | 20:10 |
| jgriffith | so can we make sure there are no objections to the project itself first? | 20:10 |
| jgriffith | ie the intent and direction? | 20:10 |
| lifeless | sdague: that might be a case where it's valuable - add local tempest tests pre incubation, move to tempest during incubation period | 20:10 |
| ttx | sdague/mordred: could we discuss additional requirements for incubation after we discuss the specifics of Manila ? | 20:10 |
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| sdague | ttx: sure :) | 20:11 |
| * sdague tables | 20:11 | |
| dhellmann | ttx: true | 20:11 |
| ttx | Their application mentions that "shared filesystems provide valuable features that cannot be obtained from either blocks storage or object storage"... | 20:11 |
| ttx | But since then, Cinder grew some features around shared volumes / public volumes. Do shared filesystems still provide valuable additional features ? | 20:11 |
| ttx | I guess jgriffith could answer that one | 20:11 |
| lifeless | so a shared block device is only suitable for use by some cluster file systems | 20:11 |
| ttx | (that would be my first question) | 20:11 |
| jgriffith | The win would be specific api's and attach management | 20:12 |
| jgriffith | much of what's in Cinder now is hacky IMO | 20:12 |
| mordred | I think shared filesystems are super useful, and a different thing | 20:12 |
| sdague | what filesystems are currently supported? | 20:12 |
| jgriffith | The shares code is constantly a "special" case | 20:12 |
| markmc | mordred, agree | 20:12 |
| lifeless | so on a technical basis, e.g. shared ext4 isn't a thing. | 20:12 |
| lifeless | NFS and SMB are | 20:12 |
| zaneb | sdague, dhellmann: just FYI, the verb 'to table' has opposite meanings in English and American ;) | 20:12 |
| jgriffith | lifeless: correct | 20:12 |
| ttx | They mention NFS and CIFS in their application | 20:12 |
| lifeless | the other thing is that things like netapp filers | 20:12 |
| ttx | OK, that answers my question I guess | 20:13 |
| mordred | "The initial implementation of Manila was a proof of concept that shared filesystem management can fit into the same architecture as Cinder." | 20:13 |
| lifeless | aren't achievable by just taking nova bm and deploying a cluster; thats vendor specific capabilities. | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | zaneb: "lay on the table" -- http://www.robertsrules.org/ | 20:13 |
| lifeless | so again, I don't see that as fitting cinder at all | 20:13 |
| ttx | My question 2 is about doing this as a separate project from Cinder | 20:13 |
| mordred | "During Icehouse, our main goals are to define and implement these new APIs as well as..." | 20:13 |
| jgriffith | lifeless: no, that wasn't "good enough" | 20:13 |
| ttx | The original proposal was to make it a Cinder thing but that was shot down in various reviews and threads | 20:13 |
| ttx | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-February/005955.html | 20:13 |
| mordred | those two sentences make me think that as much I as think Manila is a GREAT idea, it may still be young | 20:13 |
| jgriffith | lifeless: the goal is truly nfs/cifs as a service and all the fun that goes with it | 20:13 |
| ttx | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/29821/ | 20:13 |
| sdague | so in tree they only have lvm and netapp from what I can see | 20:14 |
| ttx | So I suspect the answer to my question all boils down to how much code is actually borrowed from Cinder in Manila implementation | 20:14 |
| lifeless | jgriffith: I'm speaking in favour of manilla | 20:14 |
| lifeless | jgriffith: I'm confused by your 09:13 < jgriffith> lifeless: no, that wasn't "good enough" | 20:14 |
| ttx | If it's just the scheduler, I guess that would not be the first copy. If the volume code is duplicated, however... | 20:14 |
| ttx | jgriffith/markmc: you looked at the code at some point, could you answer that question ? | 20:14 |
| jgriffith | lifeless: sorry... saw missed the "aren't" :) | 20:14 |
| russellb | sdague: lvm.py includes NFS and CIFS | 20:14 |
| lifeless | wouldn't manila layer on cinder if block storage maniuplation is needed? | 20:15 |
| sdague | russellb: oh, ok, just funny naming :) | 20:15 |
| russellb | yeah | 20:15 |
| lifeless | e.g. bring up a scalable set of instances with cinder volumes for backing and run samba on that? | 20:15 |
| markmc | ttx, there's plenty of code shared, just like cinder shares plenty of code with nova | 20:15 |
| jgriffith | the volume code for cifs/nfs in Cinder is unique and there are a number of semantics features that they want that cinder rejected | 20:15 |
| markmc | ttx, the point about it is that volumes and filesystem shares are different things that will need to evolve differently | 20:15 |
| ttx | jgriffith: so one cannot be build on the other, right ? | 20:16 |
| jgriffith | lifeless: quite frankly that was my first answer in SanDiego | 20:16 |
| ttx | built* | 20:16 |
| jgriffith | ttx: well, that's what they wanted to do but I was opposed | 20:16 |
| lifeless | jgriffith: I mean, netapp as a different backend would obviously be different, I'm referring to what the reference free backend might do. | 20:16 |
| mordred | seems like a think that could be hacked up in trove in like 3 days | 20:16 |
| jgriffith | lifeless: understood | 20:16 |
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| mordred | samba aaS :) | 20:17 |
| sdague | I think it's fair that you might have existing shared filesystem infrastructure in your environment that you'd want to reuse | 20:17 |
| jgriffith | ttx: the last suggestion I had to them was a separate service in Cinder | 20:17 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:17 |
| jgriffith | ttx: so it would share DB, scheduler etc etc | 20:17 |
| lifeless | so - I think manilla as a separate thing is different enough to warrant a new service, but I am strongly opposed to it doing it's own block device stuff - they need to layer on cinder. | 20:17 |
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| lifeless | IMNSHO | 20:17 |
| jgriffith | lifeless: agreed! | 20:17 |
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| zaneb | markmc: it appears to be effectively a fork of Cinder (like early RedDwarf was of Nova) | 20:17 |
| jgriffith | lifeless: sorry... didn't realize that's what you were getting at | 20:17 |
| ttx | lifeless: does it do its own block device stuff ? | 20:17 |
| sdague | I remember the wikimedia folks had patches to do something like this against nova back in SF or SD, do we have any idea if they were engaged as part of this? | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: don't see any mention of it doing its own block device manipulation; am I missing something? | 20:18 |
| lifeless | sharing a scheduler is something we should do across all projects asap :) | 20:18 |
| russellb | lifeless: +1 | 20:18 |
| lifeless | ttx: I may be confused | 20:18 |
| vishy | jgriffith: separate service == separate top level api and keystone entry? | 20:19 |
| jgriffith | vishy: correct | 20:19 |
| markmc | ttx, yes, it does | 20:19 |
| sdague | lifeless: sure, but that's a whole other bag of worms :) | 20:19 |
| markmc | ttx, e.g. a driver for interactive with lvm VGs | 20:19 |
| jgriffith | vishy: the API was the place I had issues with first time around | 20:19 |
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| vishy | jgriffith: I actually like that idea | 20:19 |
| jgriffith | vishy: sharing the API? | 20:19 |
| vishy | just because I have trouble seeing both cinder/manila keeping enough developers to stay healthy | 20:19 |
| jgriffith | vishy: agreed on that | 20:20 |
| russellb | separate API, but a part of cinder? | 20:20 |
| vishy | or perhaps it could be a separate repo under the cinder program? | 20:20 |
| jgriffith | vishy: but to clarify, which idea did you like? | 20:20 |
| jgriffith | :) | 20:20 |
| vishy | russellb: similar to how nova-volume was initially | 20:20 |
| * jgriffith gets ready to run | 20:20 | |
| russellb | right | 20:20 |
| jgriffith | vishy: ok, we're on the same page I think | 20:20 |
| vishy | the api ran as a separate endpoint in the nova-api worker | 20:20 |
| vishy | or you could run it as nova-api-os-volume | 20:20 |
| vishy | if you were crazy | 20:20 |
| jgriffith | Yes, Ben and I worked on an implementation of that | 20:20 |
| jgriffith | it got held up in review and then they decided to do Manilla | 20:21 |
| jgriffith | I wouldn't object to revisting that | 20:21 |
| vishy | it seems like a reasonable approach | 20:21 |
| ttx | OK, that brings us to my last question... which is about the maturity of that code | 20:21 |
| vishy | we really should try to curb the project explosion somehow | 20:21 |
| markmc | jgriffith, to be fair, we gave them the feedback that they should do it as a separate service | 20:21 |
| ttx | IMHO incubation is about integrating into the rest of OpenStack, not really about maturing the software itself and finding how it fits | 20:21 |
| jgriffith | markmc: I did, that's very true | 20:21 |
| markmc | if lifeless's approach is taken, it even more makes sense as a separate project | 20:21 |
| ttx | Therefore I'm a bit concerned to see only 98 commits and 6 contributors (2 of which being infra/oslo guys pushing packaging cleanups) | 20:21 |
| jgriffith | markmc: however it was partially based on the claims around "the huge community interest" | 20:21 |
| sdague | ttx: and the last commit being a month ago | 20:22 |
| jgriffith | ttx: and it's stalled a bit | 20:22 |
| ttx | So I wonder if that should not go in the "promising but still needing community development" bucket, like Designate. | 20:22 |
| mordred | I agree with ttx | 20:22 |
| mordred | OR | 20:22 |
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| ttx | OR be adopted by Cinder | 20:22 |
| russellb | and there seems to be lack of consensus on fundamental approach | 20:22 |
| mordred | I agree with ttx's OR | 20:22 |
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| ttx | which would ensure that duplication is kept yo a minimum | 20:22 |
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| ttx | to* | 20:22 |
| jgriffith | ttx: so for the record, markmc is absolutely correct I was HAPPY to see it proposed as a new project | 20:22 |
| mordred | I think 'it was taking too long to get cinder to make a decision' is not a reason to split into another thing | 20:22 |
| markmc | mordred, that was not the reasoning | 20:23 |
| mordred | it sohuld be a separate thing if there is a good technical reason for it to be a separate thing | 20:23 |
| mordred | markmc: not saying it was | 20:23 |
| ttx | jgriffith: but taht was before we came up with the programs concept | 20:23 |
| mordred | I'm saying, if it was, then it's not good enough | 20:23 |
| markmc | the reasoning was a technical one | 20:23 |
| jgriffith | ttx: exactly | 20:23 |
| jgriffith | markmc: +1 | 20:23 |
| markmc | that the two things are different enough for warrant a separate project which will evolve differently | 20:23 |
| markmc | rather than make cinder do both | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | markmc: project or program? | 20:23 |
| markmc | evolving in lifeless's direction is an example of that | 20:23 |
| markmc | dhellmann, separate codebase | 20:24 |
| * jgriffith likes the concept of a project on top of cinder.... | 20:24 | |
| dhellmann | markmc: ok, I don't see that as an answer to the governance organization, though | 20:24 |
| ttx | markmc: I think (1) it would make sense to make it part of the cinder PROGRAM to esnure as much of cinder is reused as possible and (2) that incubation is a bit early for them | 20:24 |
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| markmc | so, why does it belong under the cinder program? | 20:24 |
| jgriffith | especially now that I see things like lvcreate etc in the code | 20:24 |
| markmc | because their both storage? | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | "guest storage"? | 20:24 |
| markmc | why not swift, then? :) | 20:24 |
| ttx | markmc: same people interested in both ? | 20:24 |
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| jgriffith | oh no.. not that again | 20:25 |
| markmc | ttx, is it? (I didn't think so) | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | jgriffith: how much of the teams contribute to both? | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | my question is can the scope be modified on Manilla | 20:25 |
| ttx | markmc: jgriffith would know :) | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | utilize the blocks of Cinder to overlay the shares management API etc | 20:25 |
| jgriffith | It's no secret I was never a fan of it in Cinder with the approach they had | 20:26 |
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| jgriffith | dhellmann: not much TBH | 20:26 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: with the exception of their drivers | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | that seems like an argument against having them share the same program, then | 20:26 |
| ttx | dhellmann: yeah | 20:26 |
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| ttx | we might need to define a label, like openstack emerging technology, for stuff we want to draw attention on but for which formal incubation is too early | 20:27 |
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| vishy | i'm more concerned about the dev teams being essentially the same people | 20:27 |
| lifeless | jgriffith: oh they do have lvcreate stuff in there? | 20:27 |
| lifeless | jgriffith: sadface. | 20:27 |
| vishy | although that hasn't stopped us from having separate projects before | 20:27 |
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| dhellmann | vishy: I thought jgriffith was saying they are *not* the same | 20:28 |
| ttx | vishy: jgriffith says those are different people ? | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | vishy: I was actually hoping they'd build a dev team, but I may have been overly optimistic | 20:28 |
| sdague | yeh, actually the lvm driver is kind of weird, it seems to presume the netapp model a bit | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: vishy they're the same people but they're NOT very active in Cinder | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | dhellmann: vishy with the exception of maintaining their driver | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | ah | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | so not much cross-over of core reviewers? | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | no core | 20:29 |
| ttx | Interesting fact: their application lists 16 developers but github only saw 6 (including markmc and mordred who are not listed) | 20:29 |
| markmc | committers so far: | 20:29 |
| markmc | http://paste.openstack.org/show/52139/ | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | ttx: contributors to designs and in meetings? | 20:29 |
| mikal | The wiki page mentions many as _future_ developers | 20:29 |
| mikal | Which confuses me | 20:29 |
| ttx | dhellmann: maybe -- but that page lists them as devs | 20:29 |
| jgriffith | haha... two fo those are the same guy :) | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | maybe in their timeline they have already graduated from incubation? | 20:29 |
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| ttx | Yulia is listed 3 times in that paste | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | ttx: maybe I have a broader definition of developer :-) | 20:30 |
| russellb | that contributor list reminds me of designate | 20:30 |
| ttx | russellb: yes, and what applied to them applies here as well imho | 20:30 |
| mordred | yah | 20:30 |
| markmc | so, 5 committers really? | 20:30 |
| jgriffith | so I've asked the TC for opinions on this whole thing before and happy to do it again | 20:31 |
| jgriffith | But I do NOT think mixing the API is a good idea and never will | 20:31 |
| vishy | my basic thinking is the following: the feature set is only trivially different from cinder | 20:31 |
| russellb | actually, 3 of those are the same guy | 20:31 |
| mordred | I'd say they need to get more devs - and that they need to use cinder for underlying volumes | 20:31 |
| jgriffith | if we want to look at building a service/feature set on top of cinder again I'm down with that | 20:31 |
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| vishy | which means that there just isn't that much work to do on common code | 20:31 |
| zaneb | markmc: and only 98 commits | 20:31 |
| ttx | anyway, a bit unfair to go further on that subject without them being present to defend themselves | 20:31 |
| vishy | so all contributions will essentially be to drivers | 20:31 |
| markmc | vishy, currently - assumption is it will evolve to be more different | 20:32 |
| vishy | so essentially we are creating a silo for nfs drivers | 20:32 |
| ttx | but it really looks less advanced than your usual incubation submission | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | vishy: +1 | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | and that would solve a number of my concerns/issues | 20:32 |
| vishy | markmc: I really don't see where they will "go" with features but maybe I am being pessimistic | 20:32 |
| russellb | ttx: +1 | 20:32 |
| vishy | I'm actually ok with having a driver silo | 20:32 |
| markmcclain | I'm concerned that the project is setting itself up for vendor silos | 20:32 |
| ttx | would definitely give it the emerging tech label though -- we kinda want what they build | 20:32 |
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| sdague | markmcclain: +1 | 20:32 |
| markmcclain | we have enough problems with those now | 20:33 |
| vishy | but creating a whole program for that seems a bit strange | 20:33 |
| ttx | How about we rediscuss this next week when they will be around ? | 20:33 |
| jgriffith | so I *thought* they intended MUCH more than this | 20:33 |
| jgriffith | maybe it's just slow to get started | 20:33 |
| sdague | ttx: agreed | 20:33 |
| vishy | that said, we can give them the chance to turn it into a viable program | 20:33 |
| russellb | ttx: do we need an official emerging tech label? :-) | 20:33 |
| ttx | russellb: I more and more think we do | 20:33 |
| russellb | ttx: we like this concept, but it's still very young | 20:33 |
| jgriffith | russellb: I'm not sure I even agree with that | 20:34 |
| ttx | sdague: we can discuss new incubation requierments now if you want | 20:34 |
| sdague | so, do we really need a label to say we like a thing? | 20:34 |
| jgriffith | russellb: so the *hard* parts that they wanted to solve I'm not seeing here | 20:34 |
| sdague | ttx: ok, sure | 20:34 |
| vishy | it seems like we are going towards having a lot of things in incubation, which means i think we should be more restrictive on graduation | 20:34 |
| russellb | yeah, i'm all for really strict graduation requirements | 20:34 |
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| vishy | ultimately that might be the best balance between being an open community and maintaining some quality standards | 20:34 |
| ttx | sdague: I think we do, designate disappeared a bit from everyone's radar -- we would give emerging tech a "pod" at the next summit (understand: a named table) | 20:34 |
| sdague | so problem statement: we have an integrated openstack release with a lot of integrated projects that we don't actually do an integrated test on... ever | 20:35 |
| russellb | i'd like to err on the side of inclusiveness for incubation, but be really strict to graduate | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | I agree, but do think we could raise the bar for incubation a little higher, too | 20:35 |
| sdague | only 5 integrated projects are in grenade today, so barely half have upgrade testing | 20:35 |
| vishy | Speaking of designate, if we are doing names as a service, should we also do cache invalidation as a service? /offtopic | 20:35 |
| mordred | I can be on board with russellb on that | 20:35 |
| markmcclain | russellb: +1 | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | we might want to phase in those changes, though, so new projects understand and aren't surprised by new rules | 20:35 |
| markmc | I think the basic requirement for incubation should be a reasonably viable team around it | 20:36 |
| sdague | so I think we really need to reset the bar on both getting into incubation, and graduating, because not having integrated gate with our integrated projects is a problem | 20:36 |
| markmcclain | honestly they're incubation | 20:36 |
| markmc | and sensible technical direction | 20:36 |
| mordred | I dunno. I'm fine with just raising the bar on new projects | 20:36 |
| markmcclain | so phasing in would be bad because then we'd depend on them catching up | 20:36 |
| markmcclain | history has shown that doesn't happen | 20:36 |
| mordred | what an openstack project ultimately wants to look like should be no surprise to anyone at this point | 20:36 |
| russellb | markmc: i like that, and we've seen that's not necessarily trivial to achieve | 20:36 |
| mordred | markmcclain: ++ | 20:36 |
| mordred | gah | 20:36 |
| mordred | markmc: ++ | 20:36 |
| vishy | + 1 for upping the bar on both | 20:36 |
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| sdague | markmc: so the problem with that is that you could take something into incubation that we actually have no path forward to bringing into an integrated gate | 20:36 |
| jgriffith | +1 | 20:36 |
| mordred | markmcclain, markmc: could one of you grow a new name? | 20:36 |
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| markmc | sdague, why no path? | 20:37 |
| ttx | markmc: i would also try to limit the number of projects incubating at any given moment, so that we can push the required attention to them. As we ramp up more resources we can have more of them in parallel... | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | is there a path out of incubation other than graduation? | 20:37 |
| markmc | sdague, by definition almost, a viable team should be able to bring it into the integrated gate before graduating | 20:37 |
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| sdague | so ceilometer was a good instance of this, they depended on a backend that didn't run in gate | 20:37 |
| russellb | incubation -> graduation, more focus on full testing, integration with other projects, adherence to processes | 20:37 |
| sdague | which has been part of the delay in getting them into an integrated gate | 20:37 |
| markmc | ttx, that's fine, until we reject some project because we said max 5 and they're the 6th :) | 20:38 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: at the time of incubation, the version of mongo available would have run in the gate if it had been available to us (we've added requirements on newer versions since then) | 20:38 |
| markmc | ttx, some awesome project | 20:38 |
| ttx | markmc: I wouldn't have a hard limit | 20:38 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: right, because you weren't gating :) | 20:38 |
| ttx | markmc: but definitely be a bit more of a pain for the 6th one, has better to be damn awesome | 20:38 |
| markmcclain | also wouldn't raising the bar go along with the notion that projects don't have grad in 1 cycle? | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | sdague: yes, well :-) | 20:38 |
| sdague | so now ceilo has moved to non gate testable with the default backend | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | markmcclain: I hope so! | 20:39 |
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| markmc | ttx, a limit also implies we need to be more aggressive about de-incubating projects - i.e. if stalled project block new ones | 20:39 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: we agreed at the summit to make the sql driver feature complete and gate on that | 20:39 |
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| ttx | markmc: if a project stays in incub forever it might actually drop back to emerging tech status | 20:39 |
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| russellb | i'd be surprised if anyone here would argue against making more integrated CI a requirement for graduation | 20:40 |
| markmc | ttx, yp | 20:40 |
| markmc | yep | 20:40 |
| sdague | so the idea that because d-g and devstack both have plugins, it's completely possible for a stackforge project to demonstrate a working d-g job without landing code in other people's projects | 20:40 |
| sdague | that would ensure basic sanity that it was runnable in the gate in some format | 20:40 |
| ttx | sdague: would you mind carfting some resolution about the QA side of incubation requirements ? We need to move on to the next agenda item | 20:40 |
| ttx | crafting* | 20:40 |
| sdague | yep, sure | 20:40 |
| russellb | good idea | 20:40 |
| ttx | that way we can discuss a clear proposal | 20:41 |
| sdague | I'll pull together and send to the list | 20:41 |
| ttx | sdague: ++ | 20:41 |
| markmc | would be great if we could consider that in the context of a full list of requirements | 20:41 |
| russellb | markmc: ++ | 20:41 |
| markmc | e.g. what about docs? | 20:41 |
| ttx | markmc: we could have a reference document in the governance repo that we'll add to | 20:41 |
| russellb | and expressing what we expect for a viable team | 20:41 |
| markmc | ttx, that'd be awesome :) | 20:41 |
| markmc | we really need it | 20:41 |
| ttx | markmc: and sdague can init it with the QA requirements | 20:41 |
| markmc | both requirements for incubation and graduation | 20:42 |
| markmcclain | ++ | 20:42 |
| ttx | markmc: ++ | 20:42 |
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| ttx | ok, moving on to next topic | 20:42 |
| ttx | #topic Resolution: official names for Ceilometer and Heat | 20:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Resolution: official names for Ceilometer and Heat (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:42 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55375/ | 20:42 |
| ttx | Looking at the proposed resolution, it seems everyone agrees with the spirit of it | 20:42 |
| ttx | But there is some discussion around the choice of words, Measurement vs. Measurements | 20:42 |
| markmc | yeah | 20:42 |
| ttx | Personally I tend to prefer Measurements, but then i'm not a native speaker | 20:42 |
| ttx | BTW here is how I plan to set the APRV bit on governance repo stuff, in accordance with our charter: | 20:42 |
| ttx | - Do not set APRV until at least one public meeting discusses the issue | 20:43 |
| ttx | - After the first meeting, as soon as 7 +2s (or -2s) are gathered the motion is immediately considered approved (or rejected) | 20:43 |
| ttx | - On subsequent meetings, if the motion is not approved/rejected by a majority yet, we may call for a "last discussion" on it. | 20:43 |
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| ttx | - At the end of the "last discussion" meeting the motion is considered rejected, unless it collected at least 5 +2s and there are less than 5 -2s (in which case it is considered approved). | 20:43 |
| markmc | ttx, how about we consider approving this motion ... | 20:43 |
| markmc | ttx, and defer Measurement vs Measurements to https://review.openstack.org/55877 | 20:44 |
| markmc | ttx, i.e. we want the board to start considering the request, doesn't require Measurement vs Measurements to be decided | 20:44 |
| * russellb has very little opinion on the presence of the 's' | 20:44 | |
| russellb | they both seem fine | 20:44 |
| markmc | slight preference for Measurements | 20:44 |
| mordred | no s matches the others | 20:44 |
| ttx | markmc: you mention Measurements in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55375/ though | 20:44 |
| mordred | OpenStack Compute. OpenStack Networking. (not Networks) | 20:45 |
| russellb | no s is consistent, adding the s sounds a little nicer | 20:45 |
| ttx | maybe make it Measurement(s) so that nobody objects | 20:45 |
| mordred | russellb: ++ | 20:45 |
| markmc | ttx, right, we can tweak it in https://review.openstack.org/55877 if the consensus is Measurement | 20:45 |
| russellb | so *shrug* | 20:45 |
| * mordred doesn't actually cares | 20:45 | |
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| markmc | ttx, doesn't change even a tiny bit the important part of request to the board | 20:45 |
| jgriffith | mordred: me neithers | 20:45 |
| ttx | should be "OpenStack Measuring" if we follow the rest | 20:46 |
| russellb | OpenStack Measuring? | 20:46 |
| russellb | :-p | 20:46 |
| russellb | ttx: jinx | 20:46 |
| ttx | russellb: get out of my brain | 20:46 |
| markmc | OpenStack Yardstick | 20:46 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:46 |
| markmc | wait | 20:46 |
| markmc | OpenStack Metrestick | 20:46 |
| markmc | or | 20:46 |
| markmc | OpenStack Meterstick | 20:46 |
| markmc | nevermind | 20:46 |
| markmcclain | don' | 20:46 |
| markmc | naming is hard | 20:47 |
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| russellb | yes it is | 20:47 |
| jomara | OpenStick | 20:47 |
| ttx | markmc: maybe make https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55375/ a bit more neutral towards the naming | 20:47 |
| sdague | yeh, I was honestly sort of surprised in giving up on metering at the name | 20:47 |
| ttx | so taht nobody rejects it on that groun | 20:47 |
| ttx | d | 20:47 |
| markmc | ttx, more neutral in the 20131106-ceilometer-and-heat-official-names file ? | 20:47 |
| ttx | yes | 20:47 |
| markmc | ttx, we can bugfix the file later is my point | 20:47 |
| markmc | like if there was a typo | 20:48 |
| markmc | the name is not what we're voting on | 20:48 |
| vishy | if we are calling it Openstack Measure the code name should be dram | 20:48 |
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| markmc | the name is not substantive to the discussion | 20:48 |
| markmc | shouldn't be | 20:48 |
| markmc | but that's all we're discussing :) | 20:48 |
| russellb | good point | 20:48 |
| ttx | bah | 20:48 |
| jgriffith | drachm | 20:48 |
| markmc | but we also don't want to ask the board "let these projects use whatever name they like" | 20:49 |
| ttx | I'm fine with either and anybody not liking it can propose a typo bugfix | 20:49 |
| denis_makogon | sorry, guys, for interrupting you all, but OpenStack Metrics sound good | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | if we're done with the name, what's the story with the 2 definitions of "core" being used? | 20:49 |
| russellb | but it's more than metrics, that's the thing | 20:49 |
| ttx | denis_makogon: trick is, the ceilometer folks decided on "OpenStack Measurements" | 20:49 |
| ttx | we can make them drop an s for consistency, but that's about it | 20:50 |
| sdague | so, the actual resolution is about us proposing to the board to make these things core, right? | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | sdague: core, but not core? | 20:50 |
| russellb | "what is core?" *headdesk* | 20:50 |
| ttx | sdague: make those things part of the openstack core project. which is subtly different | 20:50 |
| markmc | dhellmann, it's a farce, is what it is | 20:50 |
| sdague | ttx: right, fair | 20:50 |
| denis_makogon | ttx, sound a bit incomplete, maybe | 20:50 |
| denis_makogon | ttx, Metrics and Diagnostics | 20:51 |
| sdague | I agree with markmc, we can bug fix an 's' later | 20:51 |
| * markmc wants e.g. | 20:51 | |
| mikal | That's something I wanted to bring up in open discussion to be honest | 20:51 |
| ttx | "Core is in the eye of the beholder" | 20:51 |
| mikal | I think we need to be more involved in that "what is core" thing | 20:51 |
| markmc | "Core OpenStack Project" as defined by the bylaws - whether a project can be OpenStack Foo | 20:51 |
| zaneb | dhellmann: the story is that a lot of people think that 'core' means something, or ought to mean something, other than how it is defined in the bylaws | 20:51 |
| markmc | then "required APIs in OpenStack clouds" | 20:51 |
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| markmc | then "required code in OpenStack clouds" | 20:51 |
| markmc | 3 different things, they're not all "core" | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | markmc: agreed, but until Beckett comes along and rewrites the scene, we're stuck in it | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | mikal: +1 | 20:52 |
| markmc | dhellmann, we can't change the bylaws bit easily | 20:52 |
| ttx | OK, let's keep this on-topic, any more question on mark's proposal ? | 20:52 |
| markmc | dhellmann, but we can ask the interop discussion to stop using the term "core" | 20:52 |
| ttx | we should kickban on "core" | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | markmc: does that resolve the issue, though? | 20:52 |
| markmc | dhellmann, the confusion issue? | 20:52 |
| markmc | dhellmann, it helps if we just use the word to mean one thing, yes | 20:52 |
| zaneb | markmc: if only we could pick another meaningless term to use in the bylaws. Like 'wibble', for instance. | 20:52 |
| mordred | wibble++ | 20:53 |
| mordred | also, +2 on markmc's motion | 20:53 |
| markmc | zaneb, we don't need to talk about the other two meanings of "core" in the bylaws IMHO | 20:53 |
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| ttx | we need to move on -- any otehr question on that resolution ? If not, you should consider voting soon | 20:53 |
| dhellmann | markmc: true | 20:53 |
| ttx | #topic Governance repo cleanups: Add some pre-history meeting summaries | 20:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Governance repo cleanups: Add some pre-history meeting summaries (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:53 | |
| ttx | We also have a couple of repo cleanups at: | 20:53 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50065/ | 20:53 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/50066/ | 20:54 |
| zaneb | markmc: agree, but the current choice of wording is unfortunate because it appears to mean something in plain english | 20:54 |
| ttx | Those are mostly a transition plan to translate old meetings results into proper governance repo docs | 20:54 |
| ttx | I'll APRV them as soon as they reach 7 +2s | 20:54 |
| ttx | questions about those ? | 20:54 |
| markmc | yeah, idea is we keep hacking on these until we document all past resolutions | 20:54 |
| markmc | starting with the most recent first, I guess | 20:54 |
| mordred | markmc: 50065 - should we wget the meeting logs into the local repo instead of just having links? | 20:55 |
| markmc | this is just a map of where we made resolutions | 20:55 |
| mordred | markmc: in case eavesdrop happened to die a violent death? | 20:55 |
| markmc | mordred, idea is to summarize and put them in git | 20:55 |
| mordred | kk | 20:55 |
| markmc | I guess we could put the logs in too | 20:55 |
| markmc | seems duplicate, though | 20:55 |
| * mordred does not have strong opinion | 20:55 | |
| markmc | I presume we back up eavesdrop ? :) | 20:55 |
| ttx | if not we should | 20:55 |
| russellb | yep, pretty important historical content i think | 20:56 |
| sdague | seems like it might be nice to make this a thing that publishes nicely to docs.openstack.org somewhere | 20:56 |
| russellb | like list archives | 20:56 |
| markmc | would be calamitous if we lost them | 20:56 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:56 |
| sdague | instead of just in the git tree | 20:56 |
| * markmc says 'calamitous' again | 20:56 | |
| mordred | I'm pretty sure that we back them up | 20:56 |
| mordred | clarkb, fungi ^^ ? | 20:56 |
| ttx | OK, if there aren't any other question on that, we can switch to open discussion | 20:56 |
| ttx | so that we can rant on anything | 20:57 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:57 | |
| mikal | Ok, so the board now has a subcomittee deciding what components of openstack should be required to be deployed to be eligible for a trademark. | 20:57 |
| russellb | for 3 minutes? | 20:57 |
| mikal | i.e. which bits of nova might be required | 20:57 |
| mordred | no | 20:57 |
| mikal | I think we need to be more involed in that | 20:57 |
| mordred | that's not quite the case, although I do think that we need to be more involved than that | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | mikal: sub-components of nova? | 20:58 |
| ttx | mikal: about the "future devs" thing on the Manila application -- agree it looks weird. Sounds like people might work on it only if it is incubated, which sounds backward to me | 20:58 |
| russellb | perhaps our resident board members can give a quick status on what's happening? | 20:58 |
| mikal | mordred: I thought the board resolution was to go forth and work out what to require? | 20:58 |
| mordred | the board has a subcommittee who is deciding what capabilities they expect an openstack cloud to have to be able to use the trademark | 20:58 |
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| mordred | the bits are quite specifically up the projects | 20:58 |
| fungi | re: backups, the question is whether we back up the git repos on gerrit? | 20:58 |
| ttx | mordred: the granularity of that would be the project ? | 20:58 |
| dhellmann | fungi: whether we back up eavesdrop logs | 20:58 |
| mikal | fungi: no, eavesdrop | 20:58 |
| mordred | as in, the make up of what code needs to run and what code can be done by plugins | 20:58 |
| mordred | ttx: no | 20:59 |
| mordred | ttx: the granularity is api feature | 20:59 |
| fungi | oh, got it. sounded like the suggestion was that the git repo was backed up by discussing it in irc | 20:59 |
| mikal | ttx: that's what I meant by "bits of nova" | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | fungi: we talked about copying tc logs into git as a backup, too | 20:59 |
| mikal | ttx: they might require nova-api, but not mandate a specific hypervisor driver for example | 20:59 |
| markmc | first meting of this subcommittee: | 20:59 |
| markmc | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/foundation/2013-November/001608.html | 20:59 |
| markmc | "Wed 11/20 at the Piston SFO office" | 20:59 |
| russellb | mordred: so sub-parts of the compute api for example? | 21:00 |
| markmc | all day meeting | 21:00 |
| * markmc can't make it | 21:00 | |
| mikal | Yeah, I'm a bit bothered its 8 days notice for an in person meeting in the US | 21:00 |
| russellb | if so, i am incredibly not OK with that | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | wow, who can take an all day meeting like that? | 21:00 |
| ttx | mikal: do we really care what they use the trademark for ? We still control what ends up in the damn project. | 21:00 |
| fungi | looks like eavesdrop is not backed up via bup yet, but should be on the to do list to knock out | 21:00 |
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| mikal | ttx: true, but I'd prefer this to not get that confrontational | 21:00 |
| markmc | ok, I'll follow up on-list with Rob | 21:01 |
| markmc | 1) we want the technical community involved with discussing the specifics | 21:01 |
| russellb | ++ | 21:01 |
| mikal | I actually put my hand up in the board meeting as being interested as helping on this, but I am pretty sure it wasn't noted because I was in the peanut gallery | 21:01 |
| markmc | 2) an all day meeting in SF with 8 days notice sucks for opening up participation | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | I'd be ok with appointing a subcommittee of the tc to participate | 21:01 |
| markmc | we've appointed reps from the TC to a board committee before | 21:02 |
| ttx | dhellmann: we could reqiure that it should be a joint committee | 21:02 |
| markmc | the IncUp committee | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | and I think we should push for these meetings to not be in person, so they are logged and accessible to everyone | 21:02 |
| mordred | dhellmann: ++ | 21:02 |
| russellb | dhellmann: ++ | 21:02 |
| ttx | BUT if they plan to have in-person meetings, that will be hard for us | 21:02 |
| ttx | ack | 21:02 |
| russellb | the in person meetings are a bit non-inclusive | 21:02 |
| markmc | ok, drafting | 21:02 |
| ttx | anyway, time is running out | 21:02 |
| mikal | I prefer online, but if they insist on in person there should be more notice | 21:03 |
| mordred | mikal: ++ | 21:03 |
| markmc | will send, feel free to chime in if I miss stuff | 21:03 |
| ttx | (even if there is no meeting after this one this week) | 21:03 |
| russellb | markmc: thanks | 21:03 |
| ttx | last minute thoughts before we call it done ? | 21:03 |
| mikal | markmc: cc the tc on the email? | 21:03 |
| markmc | mikal, yep | 21:03 |
| mikal | (cc the tc will be the name of the first song from my boy band) | 21:03 |
| mikal | markmc: thanks | 21:03 |
| ttx | ok, done | 21:03 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:04 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 12 21:04:00 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:04 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-11-12-20.01.html | 21:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-11-12-20.01.txt | 21:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2013/tc.2013-11-12-20.01.log.html | 21:04 |
| ttx | (No project/release meeting this week) | 21:04 |
| mikal | LOL. Best open discussion ever. | 21:04 |
| ttx | (Start working on your icehouse plans) | 21:04 |
| russellb | mikal: lol @ "cc the tc" | 21:04 |
| russellb | nova blueprints are an awesome mess still *sigh* | 21:04 |
| mikal | russellb: I've been meaning to feel enough guilt to take a look at those | 21:05 |
| russellb | same here :-p | 21:05 |
| russellb | i've definitely had the guilt, summit time is just busy | 21:05 |
| russellb | i had people trying to corner me in between design sessions to review their blueprints | 21:06 |
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| markwash | ttx: when/how do we restart the project/release meetings? | 21:07 |
| markwash | is some of that still tbd in terms of the scheduled 1-1s? | 21:07 |
| markmcclain | markwash: yes | 21:07 |
| markmcclain | sorry missed the ttx prefix | 21:08 |
| ttx | markwash: next week | 21:08 |
| markwash | markmcclain: no worries! | 21:08 |
| ttx | markwash: posted a thread on -dev about it | 21:08 |
| markwash | ttx oh I missed that | 21:08 |
| markwash | found it, thanks | 21:09 |
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| david-lyle | #startmeeting Horizon | 22:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Nov 12 22:02:45 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is david-lyle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 22:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'horizon' | 22:02 |
| david-lyle | Hello horizon folks! | 22:03 |
| lsmola_ | hello | 22:03 |
| jomara_ | howdy | 22:03 |
| jomara_ | lsmola, hello | 22:03 |
| jpich | Hey | 22:03 |
| david-lyle | Small group today? post summit lag I suppose | 22:03 |
| david-lyle | #topic General | 22:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 22:04 | |
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| david-lyle | There was no Program Meeting this week. So nothing to report there. | 22:04 |
| david-lyle | The summit concluded and started a lot of meaningful conversations | 22:04 |
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| david-lyle | now we just need to come to some more concrete conclusions | 22:05 |
| david-lyle | I have a few general items to mention | 22:05 |
| david-lyle | PTL Election | 22:05 |
| david-lyle | By now you should have received an email regarding the Horizon PTL election to fill the recently vacated position. Please remember to vote. I'm glad that we have an election, which is to say a choice. I think that's an important part of this community. | 22:06 |
| david-lyle | Meeting Agendas | 22:06 |
| david-lyle | I would like to allow pre-planning of the agenda for this meeting. So starting next week, I will include a spot on | 22:06 |
| david-lyle | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Horizon for proposed agenda items. | 22:06 |
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| jpich | Sounds good! | 22:07 |
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| david-lyle | I think that will help let people prepare for topics and know that they have a spot | 22:07 |
| lsmola_ | cool | 22:07 |
| david-lyle | Reviews | 22:07 |
| david-lyle | With summit related planning/attendance/travel there is quite a backlog of reviews. I started working through them. Hopefully others can too. | 22:08 |
| david-lyle | I know I have a ways to go still :) | 22:08 |
| david-lyle | Good stuff out there though, that would be great to get in | 22:08 |
| jpich | we do indeed | 22:08 |
| david-lyle | as far as overlooked items goes Icehouse Blueprints | 22:09 |
| david-lyle | Now that the summit is over, it's time to prioritize the items for Icehouse. I've started looking through the blueprints and approved/scheduled some of the obvious ones. I will leave the rest to the elected PTL. So, if you're waiting on something blueprint wise, just wait longer ;) | 22:09 |
| lsmola_ | :-) | 22:09 |
| david-lyle | Hopefully, after next week, things can move forward | 22:10 |
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| david-lyle | From the summit though top priority items seem to be: | 22:10 |
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| david-lyle | RBAC/IA | 22:10 |
| david-lyle | Splitting horizon and openstack-dashboard | 22:10 |
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| david-lyle | Better Integration testing | 22:10 |
| david-lyle | Reworked Navigation | 22:10 |
| david-lyle | Pluggable modules | 22:10 |
| david-lyle | and Extensive Ceilometer enhancements | 22:10 |
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| david-lyle | did I miss any obvious ones? or subtle ones for that matter? | 22:11 |
| lsmola_ | yaaay ceilometer | 22:11 |
| jpich | Would it be possible to get more milestones added? That might be one for ttx. Sometimes a proposer will know it's not going to happen in 'icehouse-1', but the other milestone choices are on 'on-going' or 'next' | 22:11 |
| david-lyle | I can check, I'm not sure what the mechanics are there, but I agree | 22:11 |
| david-lyle | it seems now either lump it all in icehouse-1 or future | 22:12 |
| david-lyle | hard to concretely plan that way | 22:12 |
| jpich | I know ideally as many as possible should land early :-) | 22:12 |
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| lsmola_ | david-lyle, was there any conversation about the no-js support, and making a proper client side layer (with angularjs probably) ?? | 22:13 |
| david-lyle | no reason not to land all in icehouse-1 and take two cycles off | 22:13 |
| jpich | lol | 22:13 |
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| david-lyle | yes, and I had that to bring up | 22:13 |
| lsmola_ | hehe | 22:13 |
| david-lyle | let me close on the priority thing and then we'll jump into that | 22:14 |
| david-lyle | as far at the Information Architecture talks went | 22:14 |
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| david-lyle | We didn't get as far as I'd hoped with this at the summit. I want to get guidelines in place in Icehouse-1 so that it is clear where new content should reside. I will propose a set of guidelines before the meeting next week that can be reviewed. | 22:14 |
| david-lyle | and hopefully we'll lose some confusion | 22:15 |
| david-lyle | ok, back to JS | 22:15 |
| jomara_ | to js! | 22:15 |
| david-lyle | couple of things there | 22:15 |
| david-lyle | First is AngularJS | 22:15 |
| david-lyle | There was a recent email to the dev mailing list regarding using AngularJS in Horizon | 22:16 |
| david-lyle | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/018629.html | 22:16 |
| jomara_ | that's me | 22:16 |
| david-lyle | A test patch was also proposed https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55901/ | 22:16 |
| david-lyle | jomara: thought the name looked familiar ;) | 22:16 |
| david-lyle | Thoughts? | 22:16 |
| lsmola_ | yaaay | 22:16 |
| jomara_ | i think you all know my thoughts | 22:17 |
| david-lyle | I think it's safe to say lsmola_ and jomara_ are onboard | 22:17 |
| david-lyle | any one have any concerns? | 22:17 |
| lsmola_ | david-lyle, after working with the glued together JQuery libraries, I am very excited about the proper layer in Angular | 22:18 |
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| david-lyle | I think it looks like a good fit in general. It seems you can apply a little or a lot | 22:18 |
| lsmola_ | david-lyle, also jtomasek | 22:18 |
| david-lyle | and it's compatible alongside jquery | 22:18 |
| jomara_ | yeah, i like the fact that you can just carve out pieces as you go | 22:19 |
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| jomara_ | less architectural rsk | 22:19 |
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| lsmola_ | david-lyle, yees, and itś beautifly testable :-) | 22:19 |
| david-lyle | and from what I understand has some subset of jquery support built in | 22:19 |
| jomara_ | it does | 22:19 |
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| david-lyle | my question from reading the documentation is it seems to imply a compile step | 22:19 |
| david-lyle | where/when does that happen | 22:20 |
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| jomara_ | a compile step? different than normal JS compile/minify? | 22:20 |
| david-lyle | maybe I misinterpretted | 22:20 |
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| jomara_ | from a development perspective, i the JS got compiled just by putting it in membership.js (which is added in _scripts.html) | 22:21 |
| lsmola_ | david-lyle, yeah i am also not aware of that, I will check | 22:21 |
| david-lyle | ok, I must have misread something | 22:21 |
| david-lyle | I'll reread with less jet-lag | 22:21 |
| lsmola_ | hehe | 22:21 |
| david-lyle | I'd like to see if the mailing list item generates any more discussion. I'll respond there too | 22:22 |
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| jomara_ | great! thanks | 22:22 |
| lsmola_ | cool | 22:23 |
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| lsmola_ | about the no-js support, is there still need for it? | 22:24 |
| david-lyle | and the second part of the javascript conversation | 22:24 |
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| jomara_ | are people asking for that? i don't have much context | 22:24 |
| david-lyle | the answer is I honestly don't know | 22:24 |
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| lsmola_ | hehe | 22:24 |
| david-lyle | it's a legacy requirement | 22:25 |
| david-lyle | mrunge and I talked a little about it at the summit | 22:25 |
| david-lyle | reasons against being purely js are accessibility | 22:25 |
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| jpich | There's been bugs because horizon wasn't usable without javascript a few releases ago | 22:25 |
| david-lyle | screen readers and government regulations | 22:26 |
| david-lyle | for government use | 22:26 |
| jomara_ | you can design JS for accessibility, specifically screen readers | 22:26 |
| lsmola_ | so all the fun stuff :-) | 22:26 |
| david-lyle | I'm not sure how we'd do on accessibility on the non-JS paths now | 22:27 |
| david-lyle | my guess, not super well, but that's a guess | 22:27 |
| david-lyle | jpich: end user bugs? | 22:27 |
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| lsmola_ | well comparing to other project redhat has, they have beautiful UI and they just care about that customer loves it :-) | 22:28 |
| jomara_ | it would probably be a significantly easier development effort to develop JS w/ accessibility features than a fallback mode | 22:28 |
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| jpich | david-lyle: Unclear. https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1006170 requested specifically ability for things to work without JS. This one suggests someone hit a bug while running with JS disabled https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bug/1117506 | 22:29 |
| jpich | Mostly I remember the first one because of the priority argument | 22:29 |
| * jpich weird brain | 22:31 | |
| david-lyle | good memory | 22:31 |
| lsmola_ | hmm | 22:31 |
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| david-lyle | I think this too should be raised on the dev mailing list and see what the use cases for non-js support are | 22:32 |
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| lsmola_ | yeah I guess that makes sense | 22:32 |
| jpich | Still an implicit policy. Maybe let's have the conversation on the list? If we can do things and have it be nice accessibility-wise like jomara suggests, that sounds good to me | 22:32 |
| jpich | great | 22:32 |
| david-lyle | jpich: I agree | 22:32 |
| jomara_ | jpich, i have some good examples of building JS apps with accessibility in mind (somewhere in my evernote file which i'll have to dig out) | 22:33 |
| lsmola_ | jomara_ could you write something to the mailing lists? | 22:33 |
| jomara_ | yeah, no problem | 22:33 |
| lsmola_ | jomara_ yaaay | 22:33 |
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| david-lyle | ok, we'll let those float for the week, and add them to the agenda for next week, and hopefully have more of our bright minds in the room | 22:33 |
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| lsmola_ | ok, great | 22:34 |
| david-lyle | I think both are reasonable requests, but we just need to make sure we're not breaking consumers | 22:35 |
| lsmola_ | true that | 22:35 |
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| david-lyle | #topic Open | 22:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open (Meeting topic: Horizon)" | 22:35 | |
| jpich | It might be one for the 'usage' list too, to figure out if some end users are actually using it this way | 22:35 |
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| david-lyle | jpich: by usage you mean just the openstack mailing list? | 22:36 |
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| * lsmola_ making a mental note that there is something like usage list | 22:36 | |
| jpich | david-lyle: Yes, the non-dev list :-) | 22:36 |
| david-lyle | ok | 22:36 |
| david-lyle | good point, that would be a better sampling of end users | 22:37 |
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| jpich | The dev list message should be handy too to figure out where the policy came from and what people think about it, but since we're talking about users | 22:37 |
| jpich | Cool | 22:37 |
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| lsmola_ | great | 22:37 |
| david-lyle | I'll try to ping gabriel too, as he seemed to hold it as a requirement, to get his reasons as to why | 22:38 |
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| jpich | Soudns good | 22:38 |
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| david-lyle | Any other topics? | 22:39 |
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| lsmola_ | I guess not :-) I have a lot of pending reviews, though not sure if they are high priority :-) | 22:40 |
| jomara_ | i'll start trying to get reviews in, there is quite a backlog | 22:40 |
| jpich | Thanks | 22:41 |
| david-lyle | I have a ways to dig out still | 22:41 |
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| david-lyle | jomara_: all reviews are welcome and as the emphasis moves to include more js more reviews of js will be very important | 22:42 |
| lsmola_ | david-lyle, I have started on reusable charts, would be great if you could check it out :-) | 22:43 |
| jomara_ | great | 22:43 |
| david-lyle | lsmola_: I saw the patch, didn't have the focus to tackle it yet. I'll get to it soon. I just got back early this AM | 22:44 |
| david-lyle | reviewing bits and pieces on the way | 22:44 |
| lsmola_ | david-lyle oh, ok :-) | 22:44 |
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| lsmola_ | david-lyle, I should finish it probably tomorrow or day after, so no rush :-) | 22:45 |
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| david-lyle | I'm looking forward to getting a reusable set in there, so piecemeal is fine too | 22:45 |
| david-lyle | smaller reviews :) | 22:45 |
| david-lyle | alright, I think we'll call it for today. | 22:46 |
| david-lyle | thanks everyone | 22:46 |
| david-lyle | #endmeeting | 22:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:46 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Nov 12 22:46:53 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:46 |
| lsmola_ | thank you | 22:46 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-11-12-22.02.html | 22:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-11-12-22.02.txt | 22:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/horizon/2013/horizon.2013-11-12-22.02.log.html | 22:46 |
| jomara_ | david-lyle, thanks! | 22:47 |
| jpich | thanks | 22:47 |
| lsmola_ | have a good night | 22:47 |
| jomara_ | night guys | 22:47 |
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| lblanchard | david-lyle: whoops missed the whole time change thing for the meeting :) Here now though! | 22:57 |
| julim | hi | 22:59 |
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| julim | david-lyle - looks like I missed the mtg as Daylight savings confusion. oh well. | 22:59 |
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