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| nati_ueno | hi | 05:02 |
|---|---|---|
| nati_ueno | pedro_r_marques: around? | 05:03 |
| thomas_morin | hi nati | 05:03 |
| nati_ueno | hi thomas_morin | 05:03 |
| pedro_r_marques | hi nati | 05:03 |
| nati_ueno | 3 guys is joining the meeting | 05:03 |
| nati_ueno | ? | 05:03 |
| nati_ueno | Can we start meeting? | 05:04 |
| pedro_r_marques | I'm fine. | 05:04 |
| nati_ueno | k | 05:04 |
| pedro_r_marques | Are there any other participants ? | 05:04 |
| thomas_morin | ok for me as well | 05:04 |
| nati_ueno | #startmeeting neutron-advanced-routing | 05:04 |
| pedro_r_marques | There was additional interest in the mailing list | 05:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 20 05:04:53 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is nati_ueno. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron-advanced-routing)" | 05:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_advanced_routing' | 05:04 |
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| nati_ueno | ok | 05:05 |
| nati_ueno | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/NeutronDynamicRoutingIceHouse | 05:05 |
| nati_ueno | #info etherpad page https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/NeutronDynamicRoutingIceHouse | 05:05 |
| nati_ueno | so one agenda is MPLS VPNs integration bp | 05:05 |
| nati_ueno | If you guys have the other agenda, please add it on the etherpad | 05:06 |
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| nati_ueno | #topic MPLS VPNs integration | 05:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MPLS VPNs integration (Meeting topic: neutron-advanced-routing)" | 05:06 | |
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| nati_ueno | pedro_r_marques: could you paste the mpls bp on the etherpad and here? | 05:06 |
| pedro_r_marques | Will do. | 05:07 |
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| nati_ueno | pedro_r_marques: Thanks | 05:07 |
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| pedro_r_marques | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aVfYHiGrwL7XyE639_sCBkmALy7FKCJqPX8DqiHk7kY/edit | 05:07 |
| pedro_r_marques | Can you please verify that the link is accessible. | 05:08 |
| nati_ueno | thomas_morin: Actually, we have a discussion on the bp. We simplified existing bgp mpls bp | 05:08 |
| nati_ueno | new bp is much more simpler and easy to manage | 05:08 |
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| nati_ueno | do you guys have feedback on this ? | 05:09 |
| thomas_morin | the new bp is the googledocs just lnked by pedro ? | 05:09 |
| nati_ueno | yes | 05:09 |
| pedro_r_marques | The proposed doc is trying to capture the minimum set of objects necessary to extend a Neutron virtual-network to an L3VPN network | 05:09 |
| thomas_morin | I think it's the right direction | 05:10 |
| pedro_r_marques | The requirements are: implementation agnostic; admin should be able to manipulate the object independently of the tenant | 05:10 |
| nati_ueno | thomas_morin: Thanks | 05:10 |
| nati_ueno | OK, may be we should share this in the mailing list and get more feedback. | 05:10 |
| thomas_morin | it's good to separate the properties of an external VPN network from the rest | 05:10 |
| thomas_morin | one thing we may add, is the type of vpn: | 05:10 |
| nati_ueno | "properties of an external VPN network " <-- which properties? | 05:10 |
| pedro_r_marques | Nati: would you be willing to incorporate the new text in your BP ? | 05:11 |
| thomas_morin | although the primary use of BGP/MPLS VPN today is IP VPNs, it woulc be nice to describe E-VPN as well | 05:11 |
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| nati_ueno | pedro_r_marques: I'll deprecate my old bp | 05:11 |
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| thomas_morin | no different properties for E-VPN: same set of properties than IP VPNs | 05:12 |
| thomas_morin | nati_ueno: "properties" -> the attributes in the bp | 05:12 |
| pedro_r_marques | It already has a set of subscribers. I would prefer to continue the work | 05:12 |
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| pedro_r_marques | Is it dificult to edit ? | 05:12 |
| nati_ueno | E-VPN looks not L3VPN | 05:12 |
| nati_ueno | pedro_r_marques: Which one? | 05:13 |
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| nati_ueno | so may be L3VPNConnection should be BGPVPNConnection ? | 05:13 |
| pedro_r_marques | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/BGP_MPLS_VPN | 05:13 |
| thomas_morin | E-VPN protocol architecture is completely similar to the protocol architecture of BGP/MPLS | 05:13 |
| nati_ueno | pedro_r_marques: It is easy to edit | 05:13 |
| thomas_morin | nati: i think so yes | 05:13 |
| nati_ueno | thomas_morin: yes. | 05:13 |
| nati_ueno | pedro_r_marques: any thought for BGPVPNConnection? | 05:14 |
| pedro_r_marques | thomas: do you have a strong preference to make it a single object ? | 05:14 |
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| thomas_morin | looks less verbose to have one object with a type, rather than two | 05:14 |
| pedro_r_marques | It would be useful to be able to distinguish between l3vpn and evpn connections | 05:14 |
| thomas_morin | but appart from that I don't care | 05:14 |
| nati_ueno | it looks like easy to understand if we have l3vpn and evpn | 05:15 |
| pedro_r_marques | one may want to connect one address family but not the other... e.g. evpn may not make sense beyound the DC | 05:15 |
| thomas_morin | ok | 05:15 |
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| pedro_r_marques | for instance in the OpenContrail implementation inside the DC both l3vpn and evpn are turned on by default | 05:15 |
| thomas_morin | ok for me : one resource for l3vpn and another one for evpn | 05:16 |
| pedro_r_marques | but the user would probably not want to extend evpn | 05:16 |
| nati_ueno | any way, let's have separate bp for evpn | 05:16 |
| pedro_r_marques | OK. We can add two types that look the same... | 05:16 |
| nati_ueno | let's have a small step | 05:16 |
| thomas_morin | one question: what is the network-id field exactly ? | 05:16 |
| pedro_r_marques | no objection. | 05:16 |
| pedro_r_marques | The neutron network uuid | 05:16 |
| pedro_r_marques | i.e. one attaches the connection object to the network to connect it... | 05:17 |
| pedro_r_marques | Nachi's requirement is to be able to have different permissions on network and l3vpn-connection | 05:17 |
| thomas_morin | what if you want to connect the L3VPn to more than one neutron network ? | 05:18 |
| pedro_r_marques | You can add multiple connection with same route-target | 05:18 |
| nati_ueno | thomas_morin: we can create multiple L3VPN with same route-target | 05:18 |
| pedro_r_marques | perhaps as export-only | 05:18 |
| nati_ueno | The other way is to use service-context | 05:18 |
| thomas_morin | but who creates the connections ? | 05:18 |
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| nati_ueno | thomas_morin: it's depends on deployment | 05:19 |
| thomas_morin | e.g. it wouldn't be good to require the admin to create a connection each time a tenant want to bind a neuton network to the external vpn | 05:19 |
| nati_ueno | some carrier has OSS for L3VPN | 05:19 |
| pedro_r_marques | The neutron apis would be l3vpn-connection-create/list | 05:19 |
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| nati_ueno | so we have a way to use service-insersion-context | 05:19 |
| nati_ueno | in that we can specify multiple networks | 05:19 |
| thomas_morin | binding a neutron network and external network could be done by a second resource | 05:20 |
| pedro_r_marques | most likely the "connection-create" command would have to be either issued by admin or verified by it. | 05:20 |
| nati_ueno | yes | 05:20 |
| pedro_r_marques | thomas: the connection object's job is only to connect the network outside | 05:20 |
| pedro_r_marques | the network could be an l3vpn inside (like contrail) or not | 05:20 |
| thomas_morin | i would think it preferable to have an API letting the admin create an L3VPN object, give access to it to a tenant, and then let the tenant bind it to neutron networks later, as it wishes, as many times etc, through another API | 05:21 |
| pedro_r_marques | A network implementation could be using a gateway to connect a neutron network implemented via other mechanism | 05:21 |
| nati_ueno | thomas_morin: I agree. so we can hide route-target value, then let's tenant update network id | 05:21 |
| pedro_r_marques | thomas: we can provide for that workflow... if admin creates a network called "External" with an l3vpn-connection that works | 05:22 |
| thomas_morin | well, we would also need to let the tenant *add* network-ids | 05:22 |
| pedro_r_marques | The tenant can later on connect its internal networks to that network... via network-policy or a VPC router | 05:22 |
| nati_ueno | thomas_morin: good point | 05:22 |
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| nati_ueno | I'm start thinking to use service-insersion-context is right way | 05:23 |
| pedro_r_marques | If the network already exists and tenant asks admin to connect it to a WAN network; the object also allows for that workflow | 05:23 |
| thomas_morin | I link the idea of using service-insertion or the policy API to bind neutron network to external network | 05:23 |
| pedro_r_marques | nati: can you provide link to service-insertion ? | 05:23 |
| nati_ueno | pedro_r_marques: sure | 05:24 |
| pedro_r_marques | thomas: in the OpenContrail implementation we do today deploy service VMs between internal networks and external networks. | 05:24 |
| thomas_morin | pedro: your idea is not bad, but what if the tenant mistakenly delete the network that's bound to the external network ? | 05:24 |
| pedro_r_marques | The external network is defined as a neutron network plus additional route target information | 05:25 |
| nati_ueno | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-services-insertion-chaining-steering | 05:25 |
| nati_ueno | you can access bp from the link | 05:25 |
| pedro_r_marques | thomas: that is not an issue necessarily... the tenant is allowed to bring down its configuration | 05:25 |
| thomas_morin | pedro: sure, but if the API let's the user shoot himself in the foot, it may be a sign we don't have the right API yet ;) | 05:26 |
| pedro_r_marques | service-insertion is complementary to l3vpn | 05:26 |
| pedro_r_marques | thomas: tenant can destroy a VPC for instance | 05:26 |
| pedro_r_marques | That allows it to tear down all networks | 05:27 |
| pedro_r_marques | l3vpn connection should not imho be tied to service-insertion | 05:27 |
| thomas_morin | the issue is whether or not the tenant can rebuild the setup to access the external VPN network | 05:27 |
| pedro_r_marques | service-insertion should work between networks. | 05:27 |
| pedro_r_marques | thomas: one can fail a delete request if objects are still associated to it | 05:28 |
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| pedro_r_marques | e.g. network that has an l3vpn-connection can have its deletes refused | 05:28 |
| pedro_r_marques | that would be the behaviour of for instance the contrail plugin | 05:28 |
| pedro_r_marques | It doesn't let objects before orphan | 05:28 |
| thomas_morin | if we can have a way to make "read-only" the neutron network associated to the L3VPn connection, then it's good | 05:29 |
| pedro_r_marques | service-insertion is very useful; it is used without an l3vpn external network and vice-versa | 05:29 |
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| pedro_r_marques | thomas: the plugin implementation has a lot of latitude here... | 05:30 |
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| thomas_morin | pedro: agreed ; we could go a step furthet and make it a mandatory behavior | 05:31 |
| nati_ueno | it looks like we should clearly usecase including admin workflow | 05:31 |
| pedro_r_marques | we can modify the BP and add that... network delete should be rejected as long as there is a ref from l3vpn-connection | 05:32 |
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| thomas_morin | yes, the use case should describe what the admin does and what the tenant does | 05:32 |
| pedro_r_marques | Nati: there are several potential workflows... i agree the more documentation the better | 05:32 |
| thomas_morin | pedro: yes | 05:32 |
| nati_ueno | then we can have concrete api discussion | 05:33 |
| pedro_r_marques | My assumption would be that most carriers would not let the tenant configure the route target... | 05:33 |
| nati_ueno | pedro_r_marques: yes | 05:33 |
| thomas_morin | yes | 05:33 |
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| pedro_r_marques | but for instance the service-insertion would be controlled by the tenant | 05:33 |
| nati_ueno | sorry going to offline 5min | 05:33 |
| pedro_r_marques | example: blue_external is WAN connected network for tenant blue | 05:34 |
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| pedro_r_marques | This tenant may want to have direct access to this network by spawning VMs on it or using floating ip | 05:34 |
| pedro_r_marques | Or may wish to deploy a NAT appliance between the DC's internal networks and this blue_external net | 05:35 |
| thomas_morin | yes | 05:35 |
| pedro_r_marques | it is also valid to have: admin creates blue_external; tenant creates blue external and asks admin to create connection | 05:35 |
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| thomas_morin | this would be valid, but possibly not interesting I would say | 05:35 |
| pedro_r_marques | In general i feel pretty confident on the API; better use case documentation is needed | 05:36 |
| pedro_r_marques | Nati: what are the action items ? | 05:36 |
| nati_ueno | let's write down use cases | 05:37 |
| pedro_r_marques | do you want me to take a stab at capturing some of these... ? | 05:37 |
| nati_ueno | I'll add our usecase | 05:37 |
| pedro_r_marques | Thomas do you have some i left out ? | 05:38 |
| nati_ueno | thomas_morin: could you add yours? | 05:38 |
| nati_ueno | pedro_r_marques: could you work on general one? | 05:38 |
| pedro_r_marques | Action items: 1) Nati incorporate l3vpn-connection API into BP | 05:38 |
| pedro_r_marques | 2) create EVPN blueprint (who ?) | 05:39 |
| nati_ueno | #action Action items: 1) Nati incorporate l3vpn-connection API into BP | 05:39 |
| nati_ueno | pedro_r_marques: EVPN could be future work | 05:39 |
| pedro_r_marques | 3) use case text from nati, pedro, thomas... | 05:39 |
| pedro_r_marques | ok then drop 2) | 05:39 |
| nati_ueno | #action (2) use case text from nati, pedro, thomas... | 05:39 |
| thomas_morin | sorry pedro, what did you already add to the bp ? | 05:39 |
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| pedro_r_marques | thomas: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/BGP_MPLS_VPN is to be simplified with text from the google docs link | 05:40 |
| thomas_morin | E-VPN can be future work, sure, but adding it is as easy as saying that the EVPNConnection resource has same properties as the L3VPNconnection | 05:40 |
| pedro_r_marques | in addition there needs to be better description of use cases... | 05:40 |
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| pedro_r_marques | thomas: nati seems to be of the opinion that a separate document would be a more productive approach | 05:41 |
| nati_ueno | action 1 is finished https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/BGP_MPLS_VPN | 05:41 |
| nati_ueno | let's work on action2 | 05:41 |
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| nati_ueno | Do you have any more agendas ? | 05:41 |
| pedro_r_marques | nope. | 05:42 |
| nati_ueno | OK let's continue discussion on the bp | 05:42 |
| pedro_r_marques | ok. | 05:42 |
| nati_ueno | #endmeeting | 05:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 05:43 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 20 05:43:03 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 05:43 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_advanced_routing/2013/neutron_advanced_routing.2013-11-20-05.04.html | 05:43 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_advanced_routing/2013/neutron_advanced_routing.2013-11-20-05.04.txt | 05:43 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_advanced_routing/2013/neutron_advanced_routing.2013-11-20-05.04.log.html | 05:43 |
| thomas_morin | ok | 05:43 |
| nati_ueno | Nice talk! Bye! | 05:43 |
| thomas_morin | nice indeed, have a good day nati | 05:44 |
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| nati_ueno | thomas_morin: good day! | 05:49 |
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| mestery | Hi folks | 14:00 |
| banix | Hi; Mohammad here. | 14:00 |
| mestery | Morning banix. | 14:00 |
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| mestery | rkukura: Here? | 14:01 |
| * pcm_ lurking | 14:01 | |
| mestery | asomya: Here? | 14:01 |
| mestery | Morning pcm_. | 14:01 |
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| asomya | mestery: yes :) | 14:01 |
| pcm_ | mestery: howdy | 14:01 |
| aveiga | morning mestery, lurking as well | 14:01 |
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| sc68cal | good morning | 14:01 |
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| rcurran | rcurran - present | 14:01 |
| mestery | Morning sc68cal. | 14:01 |
| mestery | rcurran. | 14:01 |
| mestery | #startmeeting networking_ml2 | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 20 14:01:48 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mestery. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking_ml2' | 14:01 |
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| mestery | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ML2 Agenda | 14:02 |
| mestery | Only two things on the agenda today: Testing and TypeDriver discussion. | 14:02 |
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| mestery | #announcements | 14:03 |
| mestery | #topic announcements | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:03 | |
| mestery | Anyone have anything to share with the ML2 sub-team? | 14:03 |
| mestery | Announcement wise? | 14:03 |
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| * mestery thinks some people have forgotten about the time change in the US. | 14:04 | |
| mestery | #topic Testing | 14:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Testing (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:04 | |
| mestery | So, as most folks are aware, the priority item for Neutron in Icehouse is improving Test coverage in Tempest. | 14:04 |
| mestery | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/NeutronIcehouseProjectPlan Neutron Icehouse Project Plan | 14:04 |
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| mestery | What I'd like to discuss for the first part of this meeting is ML2 Tempest testing, and how we can improve things there. | 14:05 |
| mestery | Currently, we're testing ML2 with the OVS agent. | 14:06 |
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| mestery | We need some additional testing for both Linuxbridge and L2 Population as well, at a minimum. | 14:06 |
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| mestery | What other testing gaps with ML2 do people see exist? | 14:07 |
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| matrohon | hi | 14:07 |
| garyk | mestery: are the gating issues with ml2 fixed | 14:07 |
| mestery | garyk: I think they are currently being worked on. | 14:07 |
| mestery | garyk: Although, specifically which ones are you referring to? | 14:07 |
| garyk | mestery: ok, thanks. the mail that jog0 sent to the list indicated that at least 29 failures are due to this. i am trying to dig up the bug give me a sec | 14:08 |
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| mestery | garyk: I'm also checking ... | 14:08 |
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| amotoki | hi | 14:09 |
| garyk | mestery: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1244255 | 14:09 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1244255 in neutron "binding_failed because of l2 agent assumed down" [Undecided,Fix committed] | 14:09 |
| garyk | it looks like a fix was commited :) | 14:09 |
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| mestery | garyk: Yes, thanks for sharing this one! | 14:10 |
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| mestery | Is anyone aware of other bugs for ML2 we should be tracking right now? | 14:10 |
| mestery | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=ml2 ML2 Bugs | 14:11 |
| mestery | The current list shows 10, with 4 medium ones. | 14:11 |
| mestery | OK, switching back to Tempest again. | 14:12 |
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| mestery | For those who joined late, we need to add Tempest tests which cover ML2+Linuxbridge and ML2+L2 Population. | 14:12 |
| mestery | To ensure coverage for those MechanismDrivers. | 14:13 |
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| matrohon | ok, working on ml2+l2pop tempest case is in our short roadmap | 14:13 |
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| mestery | matrohon: Thanks! Any chance you will have something by Icehouse-2? | 14:14 |
| matrohon | mestery: that's our goal! | 14:14 |
| mestery | matrohon: Great! | 14:15 |
| matrohon | I understood that gating could not occurs on a multi-host config? | 14:15 |
| mestery | So I'm going to look at adding ML2+Linuxbridge Tempest tests to ensure coverage there as well. | 14:15 |
| mestery | matrohon: I don't know that for sure, someone from QA can answer that for us I think. | 14:15 |
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| mestery | But it would be good if we could make that happen, as L2 Pop is more useful in multi-host. | 14:16 |
| matrohon | mestery: I totally agree, and we need multi-host to test tunneling too | 14:16 |
| rkukura | sorry I'm late - forgot this was scheduled on GMT | 14:16 |
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| mestery | matrohon: Yes. | 14:16 |
| mestery | rkukura: No problem. We're discussing ML2 Tempest tests now for expanded coverage per the agenda. | 14:17 |
| rkukura | ok | 14:17 |
| mestery | At a high level, we need to ensure coverage of all existing Open Source MechanismDrivers. | 14:17 |
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| amotoki | nova also seems to have no tests with multi node. | 14:19 |
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| mestery | amotoki: Good data point. I wonder why that is? | 14:19 |
| amotoki | i am not sure the reason now. I just checked nova jenkins results. | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | Possibly because multi node nova-network acts the same across nodes? | 14:20 |
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| sc68cal | since it NATs all the instances running on the HV, I don't think there's any east-west side effects | 14:20 |
| mestery | sc68cal: Agreed. | 14:21 |
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| anteaya | o/ | 14:21 |
| amotoki | i see. | 14:21 |
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| mestery | anteaya: We're wondering about multi-host Tempest tests. | 14:21 |
| * anteaya listens | 14:21 | |
| mestery | For some of the ML2 Tempest tests we want to add, multi-host Tempest tests would be a requirement. | 14:21 |
| anteaya | great | 14:21 |
| mestery | But we haven't seen any of these. Any idea why those don't exist? | 14:21 |
| mestery | No requirement perhaps? | 14:21 |
| anteaya | I have no idea what the reqirements would be but I can find out who would know and get some information flowing | 14:22 |
| anteaya | it is possible there is no requirement yet | 14:22 |
| mestery | anteaya: That would be great! Much appreciated! Point them my way if you can. :) | 14:22 |
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| anteaya | in which case, we need to make some | 14:22 |
| anteaya | will do | 14:22 |
| amotoki | i think it is better to have multinode tests as second step. it is good to test not only l2pop but aslo agent scheduler or other things. | 14:22 |
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| jp_at_hp | From the description of the devstack gate test it is deliberately single-host. I think the lack of multi-node devstack gate is the difficulty of automating that orchestration at the tooling level. https://github.com/openstack-infra/devstack-gate | 14:23 |
| mestery | jp_at_hp: Thanks for the link. | 14:23 |
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| mestery | OK, anything else from anyone on testing before we move to the next item on the agenda? | 14:24 |
| anteaya | if we have a use case for testing multi-node we need to create the structure to support that | 14:24 |
| mestery | anteaya: Agreed. | 14:24 |
| jp_at_hp | Should there be an action for someone to follow up with the ci team to determine if multi-node testing can be performed uin the gate? | 14:24 |
| anteaya | we are creating a whole new paradigm for testing tripleo | 14:24 |
| aveiga | mestery, being new to the community I may be missing something here, but is it possible to put in preliminary non-gating tests for IPv6 to be informative? | 14:25 |
| anteaya | we can do the same for multi-node now that we know about it | 14:25 |
| mestery | jp_at_hp: Good idea. | 14:25 |
| matrohon | anteaya : great! | 14:25 |
| mestery | #action mestery to follow up with the ci team to determine if multi-node testing can be performed in the ate. | 14:25 |
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| mestery | aveiga: I think that's possible, but given how new I am in this area, maybe anteaya knows for sure. | 14:26 |
| dkehn | another link | 14:26 |
| dkehn | another linnk http://devstack.org/guides/multinode-lab.html | 14:26 |
| dkehn | a long time ago this is what I used | 14:27 |
| mestery | dkehn: Thanks for sharing the link. | 14:27 |
| aveiga | sorry for not formally introducing myself: I'm Anthony Veiga from the Comcast OpenStack team | 14:27 |
| mestery | dkehn: I routinely use multi-node devstack for testing in my lab as wel. | 14:27 |
| anteaya | aveiga: I don't know the answer to that question right now, let's discuss in -neutron | 14:27 |
| mestery | aveiga: Hey, welcome! | 14:27 |
| anteaya | welcome aveiga | 14:27 |
| mestery | OK, lets move on to the next topic on the agenda now. | 14:28 |
| mestery | #topic Modular L2 TypeDriver extra port information | 14:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Modular L2 TypeDriver extra port information (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:29 | |
| mestery | asomya rkukura: Still with us? | 14:29 |
| asomya | yup | 14:29 |
| rkukura | yes | 14:29 |
| mestery | Cool. | 14:29 |
| mestery | Wanted to follow up on this Summit session with regards to the review here: | 14:29 |
| mestery | #link https://review.openstack.org/37893 ML2 TypeDriver extra port info | 14:30 |
| mestery | I think we wanted to discuss how much of that review closed the gap on asomya's Summit session | 14:30 |
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| asomya | I'm reviwing Zang Mingjie's patch.. seems to overlap quite a bit with what we discussed in the summit | 14:30 |
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| asomya | But doesn't quite cover it 100%.. i think we can build on top of his patch | 14:31 |
| mestery | Yes. Perhaps reviving this one is a way to do what you're looking at, which is why rkukura suggested evaluating this. | 14:31 |
| ZangMingJie | Any suggest? so I can improve my patch | 14:31 |
| asomya | ZangMingJie: I'll post comments on the review itself, | 14:32 |
| rkukura | I like that ZangMingJie's patch opens up TypeDrivers' attribute sets | 14:32 |
| ZangMingJie | ok thanks | 14:32 |
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| mestery | #action asomya to provide review comments for TypeDriver patch from ZangMingJie | 14:33 |
| mestery | asomya: See how much more is needed to handle what you needed in the TypeDriver infrastructure. | 14:33 |
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| asomya | mestery: sure | 14:34 |
| mestery | Anything else on the TypeDriver agenda item? | 14:34 |
| amotoki | ZangMingJie: do you have any document or wiki about your patch? | 14:34 |
| ZangMingJie | not yet | 14:35 |
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| amotoki | mestery: in the summit, we need some new "type" for flat but virtualized networks (provided by sdn controller). | 14:36 |
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| mestery | amotoki: Yes, this was per asomya's discussion. | 14:36 |
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| asomya | amotoki: That was a proposal to modify providernet extensions to define externally managed networks | 14:37 |
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| rkukura | asomya, mestery: what modification is needed for this? | 14:37 |
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| asomya | rkukura: We haven't fleshed out the details of the BP yet, at a high level overview: Just the ability to define a few extra attributes when creating a network | 14:38 |
| amotoki | asomya: do we need some new extra attrs? | 14:39 |
| rkukura | asomya: So does the network type need some attributes other than phyiscal_network and segmentation_id? | 14:40 |
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| asomya | amotoki: If it's an externally controller managed network, then we might need to somehow expose that in neutron to differentiate between neutron and externally managed networks | 14:40 |
| sc68cal | asomya: Would extra attributes include QoS attributes? | 14:40 |
| asomya | rkukura: At the summit, I think Rohit proposed arbitrary attributes for networks | 14:41 |
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| sc68cal | looking to rework my QoS API for Ml2, may be germane to the current discussiojn | 14:41 |
| rkukura | asomya: And I think ZangMingJie's patch provides that, right? | 14:41 |
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| asomya | sc86cal: Nope, this is just information regarding who's managing the network. | 14:41 |
| asomya | rkukura: I just started looking at it a couple of hours ago, if it does then that's great :) | 14:42 |
| amotoki | asomya: I think the impl of a new type driver is simple and it is similar to flat or local. neutron type driver needs to do nothing about segmentation. | 14:42 |
| sc68cal | asomya: thx | 14:43 |
| asomya | amotoki: yes | 14:44 |
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| mestery | #topic Open Discussion | 14:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking_ml2)" | 14:44 | |
| mestery | Anything else on ML2 this week? | 14:44 |
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| rcurran | quick q for rkukura | 14:45 |
| rkukura | Are people paying attention to the race condition email discussion? | 14:45 |
| rcurran | portbinding:vlan info available to the delete_port_postcommit() md's | 14:46 |
| mestery | rkukura: Yes, I am. | 14:46 |
| amotoki | yes. | 14:46 |
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| mestery | OK, thanks everyone! | 14:48 |
| mestery | Those with action items, we'll follow up next week. | 14:48 |
| mestery | #endmeeting | 14:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:48 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 20 14:48:45 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:48 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-11-20-14.01.html | 14:48 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-11-20-14.01.txt | 14:48 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking_ml2/2013/networking_ml2.2013-11-20-14.01.log.html | 14:48 |
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| rkukura | rcurran: what info do you need in delete_port_postcommit()? | 14:49 |
| rcurran | vlan | 14:49 |
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| rcurran | segmenation_id (real name) | 14:50 |
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| rkukura | I think the segments should still be available in the NetworkConext. | 14:52 |
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| rkukura | Is the bound_segment available in the PortContext? | 14:52 |
| anteaya | I missed the end of the meeting. I really wanted to talk about the gate bugs: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-November/019878.html | 14:53 |
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| rkukura | anteaya: Do you want to move to #openstack-neutron? | 14:55 |
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| anteaya | rkukura: yes | 14:55 |
| rkukura | anteaya: Looks like you already did | 14:55 |
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| rcurran | today i get the segmention_id via port-bound_segment for update, delete events. | 14:56 |
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| rcurran | not network | 14:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 20 15:00:07 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | hello all | 15:00 |
| BobBall | Hello John | 15:00 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | who is around for today's meeting? | 15:00 |
| matel | hi John - now I know why I haven't found you on IRC :-) | 15:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | oh the name, yeah, VPN dropped on me | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | #topic Blueprints | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:01 | |
| johnthetubaguy1 | so are people happy about Icehouse-1 | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | do we have any blueprints that need reviewing? | 15:01 |
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| matel | This is going to be quick from our side - we haven't registered any bps | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I mean the blueprints, not the code right now | 15:01 |
| BobBall | Happy with I-1 | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | it would be good to get things lined up for I-2 soon | 15:02 |
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| BobBall | Agreed | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | we can look at getting stuff we really one promoted to medium, if I can get more sponsors | 15:02 |
| BobBall | Can you remind us when I-2 is? | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | but that will need to be soon rather than later | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | erm, good question, let me check the date... | 15:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | OK, so I can't find that damm page | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | anyways, its soon | 15:04 |
| BobBall | hehe | 15:04 |
| BobBall | isn't it always :) | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I have a few blueprints up for I-1 | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | just finishing the stuff off | 15:04 |
| matel | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | but reviews welcome | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | ah, thank you! | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | the slashes I added in that URL did not help me | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | so, W/B 12th December | 15:05 |
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| BobBall | it's again a very short milestone | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | If my stuff doesn't make I-1 I will try make them medium for I-2 | 15:06 |
| BobBall | I suspect most of our efforts will be focused on tempest tests in that period | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I was about to say its longer due to the holiday, but anyways | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | tempest is a good thing to worry about | 15:06 |
| BobBall | indeed | 15:06 |
| BobBall | but not blueprintable :) | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | (lets come back to that in a moment) | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | well we could I guess… but ignore that | 15:07 |
| BobBall | Of course we could - but I was judging from my interpretation of Russell's "what is a blueprint" | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | well its doesn't touch nova code, it would probably live in qa team or something | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-resize-ephemeral-disks | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-vcpu-pin-set | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-vif-hotplug | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | all have some patches up now | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | the last two need some work from me still | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | the last one is more of a sketch than real code at this stage, but progress | 15:09 |
| BobBall | so the first one is ready for review? | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | yes | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | so is the second one | 15:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | third one, not so much | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | but its still worth a peak to see what you think | 15:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | I just pushed this one out to I-2 | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/xenapi-driver-refactor | 15:10 |
| matel | nice progress, John! | 15:10 |
| BobBall | ok | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I think belliott was interested in the above, but not sure yet | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | anyways, lets crack on | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | #topic QA and bugs | 15:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "QA and bugs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:10 | |
| johnthetubaguy1 | our bug list is getting very silly now | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=xenserver | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | 58 long | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | OK, some are fixed, but still | 15:11 |
| BobBall | First one isn't really ours | 15:11 |
| BobBall | just I found it | 15:11 |
| BobBall | and it affects us | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | well, we could fix it | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | VMware just added some stuff, and we asked them to start namespacing VMware specific stuff | 15:12 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | we could help come up with a baseline that can be tested, but I am too busy to help right now | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | anyways, just wanted to raise that, we need some effort of getting that list of bugs under control | 15:12 |
| BobBall | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.structural_subscriber=&field.tag=xenserver+&field.tags_combinato | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | it might just mean me being more critical about the priorites of some | 15:13 |
| BobBall | 42 not fixed | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | right, its still too high | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | or looks high compared to other bug groupings | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | but maybe we are better at tagging | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | anyways | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | needs some work | 15:13 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | maybe beginning of Icehouse-2 we do a XenAPI bug day? | 15:14 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | #action johnthetubaguy1 to organise a XenAPI bug squash day | 15:14 |
| BobBall | Sure | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | cool, so QA? | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | hows the getting tempest tests running going? | 15:14 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | I really want to see how I can help make this happen | 15:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | even if the test is always failing, I would love to see something on that zuul list | 15:15 |
| matel | Okay, that's a separate issue | 15:15 |
| BobBall | well firstly an account where we can run things in the RAX cloud for Mate would be very good | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | sure, sign up for a free developer account | 15:15 |
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| matel | That's why I wanted to contact you John. | 15:15 |
| matel | Ah, OK, will do that. | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | matel: http://developer.rackspace.com/devtrial/ | 15:16 |
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| matel | I hope it doesn't ask for my cc details. | 15:16 |
| BobBall | the 6-month thing is the bit I'm just hitting up against with mine | 15:16 |
| BobBall | it will Mate | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | if you need more to make this happen, then… get euan to sign up | 15:16 |
| matel | Can we get a proper account somehow? | 15:17 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | it is a proper account | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | maybe I am missing something? | 15:17 |
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| matel | So: I won't give any cc details here. | 15:17 |
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| BobBall | You can't sign up to RS cloud without CC details | 15:17 |
| matel | So if that's a dependency, I need to find someone with a cc. | 15:17 |
| BobBall | pretty sure of that | 15:17 |
| matel | We need to find a company card in this case. | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | yeah, you will need a credit card, its an anti-faud thing | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | fraud | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | well I will leave that with you | 15:18 |
| matel | Okay, that will delay things I guess, but we'll find it out. | 15:18 |
| BobBall | well perhaps - if my acc can be extended to have more than 6 months of free credit - we can use that. John? Any chance? | 15:18 |
| BobBall | or should I talk to Ant? | 15:18 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | well you can ask, let me make an email thread | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | #action help sort out an RS cloud account for matel | 15:19 |
| matel | Thanks, in the meanwhile I will sync up with his work. | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | so where are we now? | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | what is left to do? | 15:19 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | what is the preferred route? | 15:20 |
| matel | At the moment I am working on a document, and my recommendation is to use the RS cloud and the infrastructure | 15:20 |
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| matel | But I need to sync up, and understand the steps required. | 15:21 |
| matel | nested virt. | 15:21 |
| matel | In short: no decision made yet. | 15:21 |
| matel | I was just communicating my personal view. | 15:21 |
| matel | Spoke with dan | 15:22 |
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| matel | And we think that TripleO is not there yet to provide us the thing that is required by nova. | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | well, we could run xenserver-core inside a rackspace performance flavor VM, with nova-compute running in dom0, running tempest tests, kicked off by devstack | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | yes, triple0 is happening, but I don't see it reporting too much yet | 15:22 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | how far are we from the xenserver-core thing doing what we want | 15:23 |
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| matel | I agree - the thing you mentioned would be one way. That includes running devstack in dom0 and fixing xenserver-core. | 15:23 |
| matel | and fixing full tempest | 15:23 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | noting that we only need a subset of tempest to work, for the initial phase | 15:23 |
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| matel | Yes, sure, a start with smoke I think will be fine. | 15:24 |
| matel | And we're already passing them | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | at the summit, it was accepted that some of tempest would be good, but just smoke was probably too little | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | so lets just turn off the bits of full that are failing | 15:24 |
| matel | Sure. | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | OK, so I think we should just go for that | 15:24 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | its a good starting point | 15:24 |
| matel | So my plan is to discover if the nested virt is working at all. | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | when we have that, I will try get the Rackspace test suite running up there too | 15:25 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I thought bob got that working? | 15:25 |
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| * johnthetubaguy1 looks at BobBall | 15:25 | |
| matel | Yes, Bob got it working, but it involves several manual steps afaik. | 15:25 |
| BobBall | for XenServer yes | 15:25 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | OK, so not tried xenserver-core? | 15:25 |
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| BobBall | and it was highly manual because RS cloud depends on xenstore for IP address | 15:25 |
| BobBall | xenserver-core doesn't work yet in that scenario | 15:26 |
| BobBall | don't know if it can be made to work | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | why is that? | 15:26 |
| matel | If it's manual, it's not working. | 15:26 |
| BobBall | we need the kernel to disable the Xen bus on boot | 15:26 |
| BobBall | but the config option to disable it didn't work when I tried it | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | hmm, odd | 15:26 |
| BobBall | not certain that the syntax / positioning was right - but it's far from clear that it'll work | 15:26 |
| BobBall | without that config option, the kernel upgrades to PV | 15:26 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | ah, I see | 15:27 |
| BobBall | or - more to the point - even when running in HVM mode it'll detect it's running under xen and unplug the non-PV devices | 15:27 |
| matel | If the nested virt does not work, we are dead. | 15:27 |
| BobBall | at which point we are left with no networking or disk, because the PV devices can't come up with no xenstore to the outside | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | indeed, but doesn't sound like we have tried too hard just yet | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | ah | 15:27 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | so we don't have xenstore? | 15:27 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I thought you said that was working? | 15:28 |
| BobBall | It might work if we can figure out how to set it | 15:28 |
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| BobBall | I really don't want to recompile the kernel :( | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | sure | 15:28 |
| BobBall | xenstore can never work with nested xen | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | right, thats where I was confused before | 15:28 |
| matel | I think XenServer needs to learn how to become a good guest! | 15:28 |
| BobBall | I've certainly never said it was working :P | 15:28 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I thought you said xenstore was working, I guess thats because it was in PV? | 15:28 |
| BobBall | XenServer can be a guest - that has been working - but it can't dynamically get an IP | 15:28 |
| BobBall | no | 15:29 |
| BobBall | can't boot Xen as PV | 15:29 |
| BobBall | if it's PV then it's only booting the kernel | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | sure, I agree with that | 15:29 |
| BobBall | and not Xen | 15:29 |
| BobBall | so it doesn't apply | 15:29 |
| BobBall | I mean it's physically not possible :) | 15:29 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | sure, I think we are talk a little cross purposes | 15:29 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | so if we do XenServer as a guest VM | 15:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | we still hit the needing the IP address issue? | 15:30 |
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| BobBall | We have two options: | 15:30 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | OK... | 15:30 |
| BobBall | 1) Base image is XenServer (or xenserver-core). Would need config drive or another way to get an IP address automatically. | 15:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | I should be able to sort out the config drive thing | 15:31 |
| BobBall | 2) Base image is CentOS and we install xenserver-core on top, using the static IP address CentOS got from xenstore before upgrading | 15:31 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | oh I see, thats how that worked | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I like (2) | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | but then it will take too long with that reboot | 15:32 |
| BobBall | It would be nice, but it is far less certain | 15:32 |
| matel | Is it an HVM centos? | 15:32 |
| BobBall | and less stable | 15:32 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | yeah, there is an option (3) | 15:32 |
| matel | I think these things could be summarized into a proper table to avoid future missunderstandings. | 15:33 |
| BobBall | Yes - so option 2 would need us to prepare the image and convert it to HVM before installing xenserver-core | 15:33 |
| BobBall | Was that the sound of a volunteer Mate? | 15:33 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | yeah, I need to understand the zuul image creation system | 15:33 |
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| BobBall | There isn't really one | 15:33 |
| BobBall | it uses the images from the cloud | 15:34 |
| BobBall | runs a prepare script on them to add them to the node pool | 15:34 |
| BobBall | then it pulls from the node pool | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I thought the re-created an image every evening, then get some of them started "hot" and ready for code, then use them when required | 15:34 |
| BobBall | we can do anything we like in that prepare script | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | ah, OK | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | gotcha | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | so that makes (2) possible in the prepare scrip | 15:34 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | t | 15:34 |
| BobBall | but yeah, it can't take too long | 15:34 |
| BobBall | indeed | 15:34 |
| matel | And how much time do we have in the prepare script? | 15:34 |
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| BobBall | or - at least - that's my understanding | 15:35 |
| BobBall | not sure it's limited mate | 15:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | well, they start them up and add to the pool | 15:35 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | then the start time is when they get pulled out the pool right? | 15:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | we can skip exercises, and just do tempest (obviously) which saves some time | 15:35 |
| BobBall | if we've got a good argument for extending any timeouts I'm sure the check jobs will accomodate | 15:35 |
| matel | Okay, so as a first step, why don't we have a zuul job, with an empty prepare script? | 15:35 |
| BobBall | unless it's the actual run time | 15:35 |
| BobBall | First step should be to prove the difficult bit :) | 15:36 |
| matel | That's not good | 15:36 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | yeah, first bit is get xenserver-core running in a VM | 15:36 |
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| BobBall | actual run time might need more discussions :) | 15:36 |
| matel | I think, as the end result is a zuul job, you can demonstrate the results, if you have the frontend. | 15:36 |
| BobBall | don't assume it's going to be xenserver-core - I think that's much riskier | 15:36 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | OK, but its more changeable | 15:37 |
| matel | I am worried about the way we approach this. | 15:37 |
| BobBall | which is a bad thing for the OpenStack team | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | me too | 15:37 |
| matel | I want to see the empty zuul jobs running. | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | Can we just get tempest passing inside a VM? | 15:37 |
| BobBall | Why mate? | 15:37 |
| BobBall | What do you mean by an empty job? | 15:37 |
| matel | Because that's how you deliver the things. | 15:37 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | yeah, zuul can be consisdered a known thing, I would love to prove the hard thing | 15:38 |
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| matel | I want to see things triggered by zuul, and modify things to give sensible results. | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | but we could do this is parrallel | 15:38 |
| BobBall | It's useless unless it's setting up a XenServer in a way that we're happy has a chance of passing things | 15:38 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | people do lots of crazy modifications to zuul already | 15:38 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | +1 we need a VM with tempest passing | 15:38 |
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| matel | I would do the zuul first, at least that's my way of delivering things. | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I care much less about what version of XenAPI is running | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | we are not at the delivery phase, we are at the, could it work phase | 15:39 |
| matel | The key thing here is to deliver something _VISIBLE_ | 15:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | if it takes 2hours to do full temepst | 15:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | we can drop it on the floor | 15:39 |
| BobBall | perhaps I'm mis-understanding what you want the zuul to do Mate | 15:39 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | and add tempest into smokestack | 15:39 |
| BobBall | would it have anything to do with XenAPI? | 15:40 |
| BobBall | initially* | 15:40 |
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| matel | First runs would do nothing, but then we would be able to develop the system by amending the scripts. | 15:40 |
| BobBall | ok - yes, in which case I think that's the wrong approach | 15:40 |
| matel | So that we have feedback. | 15:40 |
| BobBall | because that's the bit we're more certain about how it would work | 15:40 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | yeah, I think I see what you mean matel, but we need to prove its worth trying first right, else thats wasted effort? | 15:41 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | anyways, we can do this in parallel if you want | 15:41 |
| matel | What I am worried about is the progress of this task. I want to have visibility, and not relying on people saying "it works" | 15:41 |
| matel | For me zuul is unknown, nested virt is unknown | 15:42 |
| matel | everything is unknown. | 15:42 |
| BobBall | We don't know that we'll have a solution to nested virt | 15:42 |
| matel | And on these situations, you want to see something. | 15:42 |
| BobBall | but the solution to the Zuul end is definitely feasible | 15:42 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | +1 don't worry about zuul | 15:43 |
| BobBall | an empty job in Zuul makes things known, absolutely, but it doesn't give any visibility - because it wouldn't be doing anything useful | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | so here is my view... | 15:43 |
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| matel | Maybe you missunderstood my intentions, but we could speak about it later, maybe what I want is not possible in this framework. | 15:43 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | 1) we need tempest to run under an hour | 15:44 |
| matel | define tempest | 15:44 |
| matel | define machines | 15:44 |
| matel | Are we talking about the perf flavour? | 15:44 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | tempest full, but with a few tests missing if we want | 15:44 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | 2) I don't care where that runs, if it works | 15:44 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | 3) I don't care who runs it | 15:44 |
| matel | Okay, it's taking 2 hours on phy machines, but they might be slower than perf. | 15:44 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | 4) the easiest runner is zuul, but right now it only talks to the cloud | 15:45 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | 5) we need to prove its fast enough in the cloud, i.e. nested virt | 15:45 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | 6) we need to prove we can automate the creation of that, I am happy to add a few little hooks to make that possible | 15:45 |
| BobBall | Is the 2 hours running through tox? | 15:45 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | 7) we can wire that into zuull | 15:45 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | 2 hours is really really bad | 15:46 |
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| BobBall | matel? is the 2 hours using tox? | 15:46 |
| matel | serial tempest afaik | 15:46 |
| BobBall | ok | 15:46 |
| BobBall | good | 15:46 |
| matel | s/tempest/nose/g | 15:46 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | well, thats probably the issue | 15:46 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | so step 1, maybe, can we try tox on the physical machines? | 15:47 |
| matel | Using parallel execution = loads of failures. | 15:47 |
| BobBall | nah - let's go straight to the cloud | 15:47 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | well, we can always just do smoke I guess | 15:47 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | I need to improve build times anyways, so I can help optimize that | 15:47 |
| BobBall | indeed. Parallel is great if we can get it working, but if not, we need it not on local machine | 15:48 |
| matel | Ran 175 tests in 521.146s | 15:48 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | ouch | 15:48 |
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| matel | I don't quite understand why do we need to run these expensive tests to test the driver... | 15:49 |
| matel | but that's another question. | 15:49 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | because its what runs fast everywhere else, they are functional tests that prove the whole thing works right? | 15:49 |
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| BobBall | Let's figure out what's possible to do first before we focus too much on the speed of the full suite. | 15:49 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | we have some faster ones than run in well under 15 mins I think, but thats a different thing | 15:50 |
| matel | Because we don't have proper tests for the drivers righ? | 15:50 |
| BobBall | We can look for speedups or reduce the tests we run at another time | 15:50 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | nope, we do have OK tests for those, but we stil NEED tests with the whole stack | 15:50 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | but anyways | 15:50 |
| matel | But that's the whole OS, not nova. | 15:50 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | lets focus on getting smoke tests running | 15:50 |
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| matel | Anyhow, I have seen, that OpenStack community is keen on burning CPU time, it makes everyone happy and proud... :-) | 15:51 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | matel: before when we didn't include the other bits it all fell apart, its not like we run swift mind | 15:51 |
| matel | Okay, sorry for that. | 15:51 |
| matel | Be constructive. | 15:51 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | matel: but if you have ideas on speeding that up, certainly suggest them | 15:51 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | anyways | 15:52 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | so the goal... | 15:52 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | tempest (smoke to start with) running in a cloud VM | 15:52 |
| BobBall | Hopefully | 15:52 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | 2) automate the creation of said VM in a script | 15:52 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | yeah, we have to just try it, and stop talking really | 15:53 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | who wants to do that? | 15:53 |
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| BobBall | Mate does | 15:53 |
| matel | I don't have access to the RS cloud | 15:53 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | but bob does... | 15:53 |
| matel | bob != mate | 15:53 |
| BobBall | We can fix that short term | 15:53 |
| matel | ok | 15:54 |
| BobBall | I don't have a medium term solution | 15:54 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | OK, so let me come around tomorrow, and we can work on this? | 15:54 |
| BobBall | that's what John is looking into | 15:54 |
| matel | I can play with that, Bob can tell me what he has done so far. | 15:54 |
| BobBall | not worth it yet john | 15:54 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | So, matel/BobBall do you want to try XenServer? | 15:54 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I can go with xenserver-core? | 15:54 |
| BobBall | Can't without config drive | 15:54 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | OK, so I should work on config drive? | 15:55 |
| matel | John: I would don't care what is it, let's do a test drive, measure, and act | 15:55 |
| BobBall | If you can push a way of an HVM guest with no xenstore to get an IP | 15:55 |
| BobBall | yes | 15:55 |
| BobBall | that would be _SUPER_ helpful | 15:55 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | #action johnthetubaguy1 to make sure config drive has useful ip addresses | 15:55 |
| BobBall | in RS cloud | 15:55 |
| BobBall | that's the key big | 15:55 |
| BobBall | bit* | 15:55 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | yeah, I missed that bit | 15:55 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | lol | 15:55 |
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| BobBall | it's useless if it just works in nova somewhere and might get to RS cloud in 2015 | 15:55 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I have the patched merged for the OS case | 15:55 |
| BobBall | :) | 15:55 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | yeah, its probably 2014 now, but I can try | 15:56 |
| BobBall | also, it's the HVM guest with no xenstore thing too | 15:56 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | though config drive, yes | 15:56 |
| BobBall | i.e. if config drive mounts as drive number 5 and required PV tools to mount it - it's useless | 15:56 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | its device 4, I made sure of that | 15:56 |
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| BobBall | that's good | 15:56 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | its not an accident | 15:56 |
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| BobBall | we're out of time | 15:58 |
| matel | Okay, so the message is that Mate/Bob will look at the nested VM, report issues to John, and John will help with those issues. | 15:58 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | https://github.com/openstack/nova/commit/b1445e7e84b720ac232541ef866fbe7a59faeaf8 | 15:58 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | its #3 | 15:58 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | sounds good | 15:58 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | who whats to take the meeting next week? | 15:58 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | I am on holiday | 15:59 |
| matel | We'll just skip it I guess. | 15:59 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | or shall we skip it? | 15:59 |
| BobBall | Well we'll skip it then | 15:59 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | cool | 15:59 |
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| johnthetubaguy1 | see you in two weeks | 15:59 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | thanks all | 15:59 |
| BobBall | let me finish it? | 15:59 |
| matel | Have a good holida | 15:59 |
| matel | Have a good holiday | 15:59 |
| matel | No | 15:59 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | BobBall: sure | 15:59 |
| BobBall | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | mate: thank you :) | 15:59 |
| matel | Hah | 15:59 |
| BobBall | poo - didn't work | 15:59 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | wait for it... | 15:59 |
| matel | hah | 15:59 |
| matel | poor Bob. | 15:59 |
| BobBall | wasn't that > 60 minutes? | 15:59 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | a message comes up | 15:59 |
| matel | Crying. | 15:59 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | nope | 15:59 |
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| matel | Have you tried to turn it off and on? | 16:00 |
| BobBall | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 20 16:00:22 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-11-20-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-11-20-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2013/xenapi.2013-11-20-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
| BobBall | ok good - proved it works. | 16:00 |
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| BobBall | I'm happy now. | 16:00 |
| johnthetubaguy1 | Nicely done | 16:00 |
| matel | Cool | 16:00 |
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| BobBall | AND proved it doesn't work < 60 minutes :) | 16:00 |
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| thingee | do we have a jgriffith? he's the only one with an agenda item :) | 16:02 |
| jungleboyj | Beuler, Beuler ... Beuler | 16:02 |
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| winston-d | DuncanT-: you can take over the chair if you like | 16:03 |
| bswartz | I think David Wang is running the meeting this week | 16:03 |
| jungleboyj | Ok, for those of us not in HK, what is up with David Wang? | 16:03 |
| caitlin56 | David Wang looks like John Griffith, doesn't he? At least that was my memory from the summit. | 16:04 |
| avishay | He wasn't in HK either | 16:04 |
| winston-d | what happens in HK, stays in HK | 16:04 |
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| bswartz | winston-d: +1 | 16:04 |
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| DuncanT- | Anybody got anything they want to discuss that isn't on the agenda? | 16:04 |
| winston-d | :) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | I do I do | 16:04 |
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| avishay | winston-d: :) | 16:04 |
| thingee | jgriffith: :) | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 20 16:04:56 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:05 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:05 |
| avishay | hello! | 16:05 |
| winston-d | o/ | 16:05 |
| bswartz | hi | 16:05 |
| kmartin | hi | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | #topic I-1 | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "I-1 (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:05 | |
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| jungleboyj | Howdy all. | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/icehouse-1 | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | I've been slashing through the proposed items for I-1 | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | mostly because there's no activity for most of them | 16:05 |
| peter-hamilton | hi all | 16:06 |
| * avishay looks at volume retype | 16:06 | |
| jgriffith | Wanted to make sure nobody had any updates on any of the items | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: it's still targetted don't worry | 16:06 |
| avishay | jgriffith: i know :) | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | is there anything that people are actively working on that isn't targetted? | 16:06 |
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| DuncanT- | I'm concerned that most of those blueprints have no more than a line or two detail... | 16:06 |
| caitlin56 | jgriffith: the biggest item blocking our work on snapshot is having a clear consensus on how a target shouldbe specified. | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | Keeping in mind that I-1 is only about 2 weeks away | 16:06 |
| avishay | BTW, for those who don't know: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 16:07 |
| winston-d | avishay: thx | 16:07 |
| dosaboy | jgriffith: i'd like to add https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1251334 | 16:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1251334 in cinder "volume create race condition protection" [Undecided,In progress] | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | dosaboy: done | 16:08 |
| dosaboy | thx | 16:08 |
| peter-hamilton | jgriffith: i'd like to get some eyes on https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-cinderclient/+bug/1248519 | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: yes BTW | 16:08 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1248519 in python-cinderclient "'search_opts' unexpected keyword argument for resource manager list()" [Undecided,New] | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | WRT to poor BP's | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | peter-hamilton: ewww | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | ok... noted | 16:09 |
| winston-d | DuncanT-, jgriffith i was planning to get multi-process API service done in I-1, it's still achievable i think but I haven't registered the bp yet... | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: up to you... | 16:09 |
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| DuncanT- | caitlin56: Can you explain what you mean there please? I don't understand your problem | 16:10 |
| * winston-d writing a bp for API workers | 16:10 | |
| jgriffith | winston-d: if you think you'll have it done get the BP up and I'll target it | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | Anybody from the Dell team around? | 16:10 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: sure. will register the bp and then bug you | 16:10 |
| caitlin56 | DuncanT: how do you specify another storage backend? It is particularly tricky if you have a Volume Driver that supports multiple targets. | 16:11 |
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| avishay | thingee: do you know if anyone from Dell is around? :) | 16:11 |
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| DuncanT- | caitlin56: Specify another storage backend for what? | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: :) | 16:11 |
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| caitlin56 | DuncanT: as the target of migration, or new mirroring/replication. | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: I believe caitlin56 would like to have a single driver instantiation for multiple backends | 16:12 |
| winston-d | caitlin56: is NFS shares you are talking about in migration case? | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: correct? | 16:12 |
| thingee | avishay: I scanned the list of people in the channel, but no luck | 16:12 |
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| caitlin56 | jgriffith: it's a general problem, but our NFS driver hits the issue, yes. | 16:12 |
| avishay | thingee: i was trying to poke fun at your HK laptop :( | 16:12 |
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| jgriffith | caitlin56: that didn't answer the question :) | 16:12 |
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| * thingee went to bed a 3am | 16:13 | |
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| DuncanT- | caitlin56: I'm afraid I've not got enough context here to understand the problem. Not sure I've I've missed a discussion | 16:13 |
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| jungleboyj | avishay: Not everything can have a Thinkpad. ;-) | 16:13 |
| avishay | jungleboyj: not everyone wants one... ;) | 16:14 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: True enough. | 16:14 |
| avishay | jgriffith: are we still on I-1...we went severly off-topic. should we add this topic on the end? | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | Ok... let's get back on track here | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | avishay: haha | 16:14 |
| caitlin56 | Duncant: if you want to replicate a snapshot, or migrate a volume, you need to specify (directly or indirectly) another storage backend. | 16:14 |
| winston-d | one of nexenta engineer mentioned the problem that NFS drivers can manage mulitple NFS shares within one instantiation. | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I don't even know what the topic for them is :) | 16:15 |
| avishay | jgriffith: damn you and your mind reading | 16:15 |
| avishay | jgriffith: me neither | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | LOL | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | OK... DuncanT- caitlin56 please hold up for one second | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | back to I-1... | 16:15 |
| anti-neutrino | Hello everyone .. | 16:15 |
| anti-neutrino | before we start a new topic | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | does anybody else have anything that needs to be added/considered here? | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | something that will actually land by Dec 5 | 16:15 |
| anti-neutrino | wanted to introduce myself .. this is my first meeting | 16:15 |
| anti-neutrino | and would like to contribute to Cinder (as a developer) | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | hi anti-neutrino , we'll have some intro time at the end of the meeting | 16:16 |
| avishay | anti-neutrino: hello, welcome aboard | 16:16 |
| anti-neutrino | thanks Avishay | 16:16 |
| winston-d | anti-neutrino: welcome. and hang on please, let other finish first | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | Ok... so it sounds like nobody has anything else | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | The items that are targetted I think are achievable | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | but those need to be the focus | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | if you're assigned and not going to work on it speak up early rather than later | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | and DONT forget the bugs! :) | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | #topic welcome anti-neutrino | 16:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "welcome anti-neutrino (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:17 | |
| thingee | hi anti-neutrino! | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | alright, let's all say welcome to anti-neutrino | 16:17 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:18 |
| dinesh | Hi also Dinesh here new to this meeting | 16:18 |
| anti-neutrino | thanks everyone :) | 16:18 |
| jungleboyj | Welcome anti-neutrino ! :-) | 16:18 |
| zhiyan | hello anti-neutrino | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | dinesh: welcome as well | 16:18 |
| glenng | Greetings anti-neutrino :-) | 16:18 |
| dinesh | thanks everyone | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | anti-neutrino: sent me an email last night expressing interest in getting involved in Cinder | 16:18 |
| kmartin | hello | 16:18 |
| peter-hamilton | anti-neutrino: welcome! | 16:18 |
| DuncanT- | anti-neutrino: IT'S A TRAP! | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:18 |
| anti-neutrino | hehe.. would like to experience it | 16:18 |
| avishay | jgriffith: saw this is assigned to me - we didn't settle if it was an actual bug or not ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1223189 | 16:18 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1223189 in cinder "volume gets 'error_attaching' status after attaching it to an invalid server" [Low,In progress] | 16:18 |
| dosaboy | anti-neutrino: kuwakaribisha | 16:19 |
| peter-hamilton | dinesh: welcome 2.0! | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | avishay: personally I still thnk the error is valid | 16:19 |
| dinesh | thank you :) peter-hamilton | 16:20 |
| avishay | jgriffith: ok, need to come up with a good solution then ... maybe it'll just fix itself with state machines ;) | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | avishay: DOH | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I mean it's valid to report that error | 16:20 |
| avishay | jgriffith: oh, ok...so we can mark the bug as invalid - i'm ok with that | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | avishay: the only other option is to eat the error and return to available | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | some people like that but I find it confusing | 16:20 |
| winston-d | State Machine is the answer to everything~ | 16:20 |
| avishay | winston-d: sure is! :) | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | avishay: IMO invalid/opinion is fine | 16:20 |
| DuncanT- | The whole error reporting thing is tricky... if the volume is still attachable to another host the available is the right status | 16:21 |
| DuncanT- | State machine doesn't solve this :-) | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: winston-d avishay we've actually been rehashing discussions on FSM and whether it's really useful | 16:21 |
| winston-d | so we need a user-visible 'task state' like nova does? | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | ie does it actually solve the problems we're hoping to etc | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: I think so yes | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | What shall we argue first.... :) | 16:22 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: me too. 'error attaching' is a perfect fit for 'task state'. | 16:22 |
| avishay | DuncanT-: true | 16:22 |
| DuncanT- | We need a user visible 'volume state' but that is I think way more granular than the state machine state | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: I'd like to go that route, I think it would be very helpful going forward | 16:22 |
| avishay | jgriffith: new topic? ^ | 16:22 |
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| DuncanT- | 'last error' is what we went for with backups IIRC | 16:22 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT-: did you catch my comment about whether we need a state machine or not? | 16:23 |
| DuncanT- | jgriffith: Yes. I'm ignoring it until I can prove that it really solves problems | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: :) | 16:24 |
| winston-d | DuncanT-: sample code is coming out pretty soon, i guess | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | alright... shall we go through some of caitlin56 's issues? | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | #topic Nexenta shared driver object | 16:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nexenta shared driver object (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:24 | |
| jgriffith | ^^ for lack of a better phrase | 16:24 |
| winston-d | caitlin56: ? | 16:25 |
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| caitlin56 | So that specific issue is "how do you specify a specific backend" - the one operation right now is migrate, but we are looking at mirroriing and snapshot replication. | 16:25 |
| caitlin56 | I think all three should have the same solution as to how you specify a specific storage backend. | 16:25 |
| caitlin56 | I've heard three suggestions, any of which would work: | 16:26 |
| DuncanT- | So we have some migration now, how does it work? | 16:26 |
| winston-d | caitlin56: if the back-end here is the same notion we have been using in cinder, I'd say, let admin specifies the target back-end | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: I still believe that replication config doesn't belong in Cinder | 16:26 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: +1 | 16:26 |
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| guitarzan | let's wait for the 3 suggestions | 16:26 |
| avishay | jgriffith: what do you mean by replication config? | 16:26 |
| caitlin56 | 1) have Volume Driver publish a list of locations | 16:27 |
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| caitlin56 | 2) have each Volume Driver only manage a single location and then create some form of aggregate Volume Driver. | 16:27 |
| caitlin56 | 3) create a placeholder volume, a passive volume, that can be a target. | 16:28 |
| guitarzan | how does migration work? | 16:28 |
| bswartz | none of the above 3 are needed for migrations to work today | 16:28 |
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| dosaboy | caitlin56: iyo which of those would be most applicable to the majority of existing drivers? | 16:28 |
| caitlin56 | jgriffith: replication is a subset of both mirroring and migration. It does not make sense to allow greater tasks but ban replication. | 16:28 |
| winston-d | i think it'd be easier for us the understand the problem if you can write more background in etherpad | 16:29 |
| caitlin56 | I think the third option is the best. | 16:29 |
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| DuncanT- | 3rd option is ugly, I'd really like to avoid it | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | I still say that just becuase we can make our code extremely complex doesn't mean that we should | 16:30 |
| dosaboy | I'm inclined to +1 DuncanT- | 16:30 |
| caitlin56 | But its the only one that Ithink works for mirroring. | 16:30 |
| jungleboyj | DuncanT-: I agree. That sounds like it could lead to confusion. | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: What's teh benefit here? | 16:30 |
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| avishay | i'm probably the one most heavily involved in migration and replication and i'm lost | 16:30 |
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| winston-d | is there any driver that manages more than one back-end/locations right now? | 16:31 |
| DuncanT- | I'd like to see the proposed end user experience (a full set of the commands they'd run and what they'd see) before I can really evaluate it, but gut feeling is that this is going to get messy real quick | 16:31 |
| caitlin56 | jgriffith: on the immediagte topic it is uniformity. As for replication, it is a very valuable feature even if not used in migration or mirroring. | 16:31 |
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| guitarzan | the problem with #3 is it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the original problem statement | 16:31 |
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| winston-d | guitarzan: same feeling | 16:31 |
| winston-d | avishay: lost +1 | 16:32 |
| caitlin56 | avishay: you suggested something like #3 as a method for specifying mirroring during the summit. | 16:32 |
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| bswartz | I think everyone disliked that suggestions for mirroring | 16:32 |
| bswartz | at least the most vocal people disliked it | 16:33 |
| avishay | caitlin56: i'm currently working on a new design for mirroring which will make things 100% transparent for the user, and as simple as possible for cinder | 16:33 |
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| avishay | i'm trying to avoid multiple volumes for 1 logical volume if possible (need to see if it is in fact possible) | 16:33 |
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| caitlin56 | avishay: when would the details of that be available? We'd like to propose snapshot replication to be compatible. | 16:33 |
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| avishay | caitlin56: hopefully next week | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: I don't think any of us even really understand your goal here | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | re "snapshot replication" | 16:34 |
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| dosaboy | caitlin56: is there a blueprint for this? | 16:34 |
| caitlin56 | dosaboy: yes, and wiki pages linked from it. | 16:35 |
| dosaboy | ok ill take a look | 16:35 |
| caitlin56 | snapshot replication is a step in either volume migratin or mirroring. It is frfequently a simpler solution that allows simpler solutions that full volume migration or permanentlymirroring. | 16:36 |
| caitlin56 | So having it as a distinct capability that can support migration and mirroring, or be invoked directly, makes sense. | 16:36 |
| caitlin56 | and since everyone needs to do migratin and mirroring eventually, it is not extra work if you are using snapshots for those methods anyway. | 16:37 |
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| DuncanT- | So one problem you're going to hit here is that currently snapshots are entirely dependent on the existance of their parent volume | 16:37 |
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| jgriffith | caitlin56: for Nexenta | 16:37 |
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| avishay | i don't believe it should be exposed...if a driver wants to use some technique to implement a higher-level function, that's fine | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | avishay: +1000 | 16:37 |
| caitlin56 | There are lots of additional feagtures that this enables | 16:38 |
| DuncanT- | That's my feeling too, but I'd be interested in a perspective end-user experience walkthough in case I'm missing something | 16:38 |
| caitlin56 | It also deals with master images very well. | 16:38 |
| caitlin56 | DuncanT: and we have a major user who is demanding some of these features. | 16:38 |
| avishay | but in my opinion if you're implementing mirroring by naively copying over snapshots and hope to recover, you're going to have a bad time | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | avishay: it's an impossible abstraction as I've said all along | 16:39 |
| DuncanT- | We can already do transparent replication of hot snapshots, no cinder changes required | 16:39 |
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| caitlin56 | avishay: it is not naively copying. It is copying snapshots with incremental protocols. It has a longer RPO, but it is very cost effective. | 16:39 |
| DuncanT- | I'm not sure what is gained by making it a first class cinder feature | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: again it's vendor specific though | 16:39 |
| dosaboy | caitlin56: it's ok we can use the c word ;) | 16:39 |
| caitlin56 | jgriffith: it isn't backend specific. All backends support snapshots. | 16:40 |
| DuncanT- | There is no usecase at all in the wiki page attached to that blueprint... that's what I'd like to see. Concrete usecases | 16:40 |
| avishay | caitlin56: i have no problem with that - all IBM controllers support that mode AFAIK. i just don't want to implement advanced data-path features in cinder, at least not at this stage. | 16:40 |
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| caitlin56 | avishay: the method of replicating snapshots would be up to the Volume Drivers. | 16:41 |
| avishay | caitlin56: not all back-ends can transmit snapshots, but that's beside the point for me | 16:41 |
| bswartz | I agree that different vendors will implement replication in different ways and it's unlikely that we can find a common API for that in the cinder frontend -- let each of us do vendor specific things | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | caitlin56: honestly, I keep coming back to the same responses on this... | 16:41 |
| avishay | caitlin56: can this be contained in your driver? | 16:42 |
| caitlin56 | There is a universal solution: 1) clone an anonymous voolume, 2) migrate that volume, 3) snapshot that volume at the distinction. | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: if nexenta wants to implement some great snapshot replication features in their backend then have at it | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: but they're not core Cinder functions | 16:42 |
| caitlin56 | avishay: we need clients to be able to request migrating snapshots. | 16:42 |
| DuncanT- | Why? | 16:42 |
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| jgriffith | caitlin56: if you want to use your systems strenths for things like replication/migration etc that's fine | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | it's an implementation detail | 16:42 |
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| DuncanT- | What is the actual use-case? What is the user trying to achieve when they are doing this? | 16:42 |
| avishay | request migrating snapshots? why would a user care about migration method? | 16:42 |
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| caitlin56 | The user does notcare how snapshotsare migrated. | 16:43 |
| caitlin56 | That's why letting each volume driver select the method works fine. | 16:43 |
| avishay | do you want to enable volume migration, but for snapshots? is that the goal? | 16:44 |
| caitlin56 | But I can build a default implementation out of already defined methods in case the volume driver does not supply a method. | 16:44 |
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| caitlin56 | It's snapshot replication, not migration. You can build volume migration out of snapshot replication. | 16:44 |
| dosaboy | confused.com | 16:44 |
| dosaboy | i dont see the difference tbh | 16:45 |
| bswartz | I understand this proposal I just think that it won't end up working for drivers other than nextenta's | 16:45 |
| DuncanT- | What is the end-user benefit of exposing snapshot replication? Rather than doing it behind the scenes where users never know? | 16:45 |
| avishay | caitlin56: what would be the user-visible API? | 16:45 |
| caitlin56 | If I replicate snapshots then I can clone a volume on the destination. It's advanced prep for an emergency migration. | 16:45 |
| avishay | caitlin56: i.e., mirroring | 16:46 |
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| caitlin56 | avishaty: snapshot replicate would need to be placed on a snapshot and specify the target. | 16:46 |
| dosaboy | if you want to copy a snapshot from one backend to anther you can effectively do that with the existing volume migration by temporarily converting snap to vol then back to snap | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | so let me ask people what a better user experience is here: | 16:46 |
| caitlin56 | It is very similar to mirroring,except that each replication is one at the specific direction of the user. | 16:46 |
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| jgriffith | 1. Manually do things like setup/request snapshot replication etc | 16:47 |
| caitlin56 | It can also be used to distribute master images, not just mirroring. | 16:47 |
| winston-d | to me, anything (API) doesn't work between two totally different back-ends (two vendors), doesn't make sense. | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | 2. The admin configures replication ahead of time and it's just always there | 16:47 |
| DuncanT- | Why do my end users want to know anything about backends? Why should they know if I have 1 or 20, let alone care about the data distribution? | 16:47 |
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| jgriffith | 2 minute warning for this topic by the way... | 16:47 |
| winston-d | caitlin56: does your snapshot migration works between an IBM controller and a SolidFire? | 16:47 |
| DuncanT- | Just spot hot snapshots and transparently replicate if necessary. Driver specific and no core changes needed | 16:48 |
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| caitlin56 | Duncan: because customers want tobe able to control multiple replicas. Mirroring is a greatsolution, but expensive. | 16:48 |
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| caitlin56 | winston: no, inter-vendor replication would need to be done using backup. The goal of snapshots is to be vendor-specific and efficient.. | 16:49 |
| bswartz | Can what caitlin is suggesting be implemented as a cinder extension? | 16:49 |
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| winston-d | caitlin56: then it's not a Cinder API. | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | caitlin56: then I'd suggest writing an extension and giving it to your customers that want this | 16:49 |
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| dosaboy | caitlin56: that's not something that everyone would want to expose though imo | 16:49 |
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| avishay | caitlin56: my replication design will allow admins to set RPO via volume type. so set it to 24 hours or whatever you want. | 16:49 |
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| jgriffith | Ok, that's time on this one :) | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | #topic open-discussion | 16:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:50 | |
| caitlin56 | avishay: that's good. But it still requires a permanent relationship. | 16:50 |
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| jgriffith | Not snapshot replication | 16:50 |
| glenng | Does anyone have an aspirin? ;-) | 16:50 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:50 |
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| winston-d | glenng: sold out, earlier next time | 16:51 |
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| thingee | DuncanT-: fsm POC coming this week I read? | 16:51 |
| avishay | our review queue got huge again...somewhat due to jenkins going crazy, but we seem to be slipping a bit | 16:51 |
| avishay | both jenkins queues are over 100 right now | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I've been out for almost a week so I'm a great big fat slacker :) | 16:52 |
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| winston-d | avishay: our ultimate review machine went on vacation for a few days. | 16:52 |
| jungleboyj | Would it be uncouth to ask for some eyes to get the 4 cached volumes/performance improvements merged into stable/havana? | 16:52 |
| avishay | ahhhh | 16:52 |
| avishay | jgriffith: who let you go on vacation? ;P | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: :) | 16:52 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Hope you did something fun! | 16:53 |
| winston-d | jungleboyj: unfortunately, most ppl here don't have +2 right for stable tree | 16:53 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: there were a couple LVM-related patches that I wanted you to see before approving | 16:53 |
| thingee | jungleboyj: I'll take a look. I need it merged too | 16:53 |
| jungleboyj | Wondered how I had gotten so far ahead of jgriffith on reviews. :-) | 16:53 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: Cool. Thanks! Need it in before the 25th if possible. | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I'll check them today.. thanks! | 16:54 |
| avishay | jgriffith: fo sho | 16:54 |
| * jgriffith is going to stop doing reviews and get kicked off of core :) | 16:54 | |
| avishay | jgriffith: also got you this as a welcome back gift: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/57474/ | 16:54 |
| thingee | avishay: https://twitter.com/OSJenkins/status/403091811196878848 | 16:54 |
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| jungleboyj | :-) | 16:54 |
| avishay | thingee: hahah | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | avishay: you are a very very funny man! | 16:55 |
| jgriffith | avishay: and that's a great gift by the way | 16:55 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: hey, it's to help you! :) | 16:55 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: I know.. I was being serious when I said it was a great gift :) | 16:56 |
| thingee | 4 min warning | 16:56 |
| * avishay gives thumbs up | 16:56 | |
| jgriffith | doesn't seem we have anything here we can't talk about in #cinder | 16:57 |
| avishay | i think we should all relax a bit with the rechecks | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | shall we call it a meeting? | 16:57 |
| avishay | jgriffith: 1 min pls | 16:57 |
| DuncanT- | Sounds like a plan | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | avishay: go for it | 16:57 |
| avishay | so jenkins is having some troubles, and things are getting -1'ed | 16:57 |
| avishay | i think for now we can make things easier by not 'recheck'ing everything 5 times until it passes | 16:58 |
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| avishay | reviewers can see if it's an issue with the code or jenkins and do proper reviews | 16:58 |
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| avishay | does that make sense? | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | avishay: indeed | 16:58 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: yep. Probably a good idea. | 16:58 |
| winston-d | avishay: +1 | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | avishay: I'll ping the infra guys and see what's up | 16:59 |
| avishay | cool, that was my public service announcement | 16:59 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: gracias | 16:59 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: There were notes this morning on the devel list. | 16:59 |
| avishay | jgriffith: kick it | 16:59 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: They are trying to get focus on the bugs. | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: reading now... | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | avishay: :) | 16:59 |
| avishay | :) | 16:59 |
| * hartsocks waves | 17:00 | |
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| jgriffith | the great thing is we're not on the list this time :) | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | alright | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | that's time | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | hartsocks: all yours | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting cinder | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| hartsocks | thanks. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 20 17:00:39 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-11-20-16.04.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-11-20-16.04.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2013/cinder.2013-11-20-16.04.log.html | 17:00 |
| jungleboyj | Later. | 17:00 |
| joel-coffman | \quit | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | thx everyone | 17:00 |
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| peter-hamilton | thanks | 17:00 |
| peter-hamilton | \quit | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | #startmeeting VMwareAPI subteam | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 20 17:01:09 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI subteam)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi_subteam' | 17:01 |
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| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 20 17:01:25 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi_subteam/2013/vmwareapi_subteam.2013-11-20-17.01.html | 17:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi_subteam/2013/vmwareapi_subteam.2013-11-20-17.01.txt | 17:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi_subteam/2013/vmwareapi_subteam.2013-11-20-17.01.log.html | 17:01 |
| hartsocks | #startmeeting VMwareAPI | 17:01 |
| garyk | that was quick | 17:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 20 17:01:33 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:01 | |
| tjones | lol | 17:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:01 |
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| tjones | ok we are done! | 17:01 |
| hartsocks | I didn't realize it would take the whole name... | 17:01 |
| garyk | tjones: and we completed it without incident :) | 17:01 |
| tjones | awesome! | 17:02 |
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| garyk | chat to you guys next week ... | 17:02 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 17:02 |
| rgerganov | hi guys | 17:02 |
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| hartsocks | hey. Who else is around? | 17:02 |
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| hartsocks | Okay. Well, we'll just hope people who can jump in will. | 17:04 |
| ogelbukh | hartsocks: o/ | 17:04 |
| hartsocks | #topic bugs | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:04 | |
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| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=vmware+&field.status%3Alist=NEW | 17:05 |
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| hartsocks | We've got 3 bugs I've not managed to cycle back to yet. | 17:05 |
| hartsocks | I haven't set a priority on: | 17:05 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1240355 | 17:06 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1240355 in nova "Broken pipe error when copying image from glance to vSphere" [Undecided,New] | 17:06 |
| garyk | hartsocks: what do you ean we have 3 bugs? | 17:06 |
| tjones | that is intermittent | 17:06 |
| hartsocks | Because I've had no luck reproducing it. | 17:06 |
| tjones | 3 non-triaged bugs | 17:06 |
| garyk | ok, thanks for the clarification | 17:06 |
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| hartsocks | We have 3 bugs without priority. Sorry, I a word. | 17:06 |
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| hartsocks | So 1240355 in nova "Broken pipe error when copying image from glance to vSphere" [ | 17:06 |
| tjones | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1252827 | 17:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1252827 in nova "VMWARE: Intermittent problem with stats reporting" [Undecided,New] | 17:07 |
| hartsocks | I can't repro. But, I uderstand others have. | 17:07 |
| garyk | i have yet to reproduce this one, but it is criticial in my opinion | 17:07 |
| tjones | this one is ciritcal - it's blocking our CI. | 17:07 |
| hartsocks | which one? reporting or intermittend pipe error? | 17:07 |
| garyk | if someone has reproduced then they should set it as confirmed | 17:07 |
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| tjones | sorry - should have finished pipe discussion 1st | 17:07 |
| garyk | the statistics - the reason is that if the stats are not reported then VM's cannot be launched | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | Well, I thought Gary had reproduced the pipe thing. | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | yeah. That's pretty bad. So we can call that "High" then. | 17:08 |
| garyk | which bug are we talking about> | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | *lol* | 17:08 |
| tjones | lets finish the pipe discussoin and move on - my bad | 17:08 |
| garyk | tjones: ok. np | 17:08 |
| hartsocks | So the pipe bug. | 17:09 |
| hartsocks | Gary. You said you've seen it? I can't make it happen. | 17:09 |
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| garyk | i have seen this one a few times. not as of late | 17:09 |
| garyk | i am marking it as confirmed as i have seen it on my setup | 17:09 |
| hartsocks | So… it could be gone now for all we know? | 17:09 |
| hartsocks | Okay. | 17:10 |
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| hartsocks | When it happens is it bad? | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | Can you keep working? | 17:10 |
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| garyk | yes, when it happens one is unable to boot a VM and you need to try again. That is bad in my opinion. | 17:10 |
| hartsocks | so is the cloud dead from that point on or does it recover? | 17:11 |
| hartsocks | … and yet three groups have tried to repro. this and can't. | 17:11 |
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| garyk | the cloud is not dead. the current VM being booted fails. | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | well, I'm calling that Medium for now and moving on to a more important thing then. | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1252827 | 17:12 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1252827 in nova "VMWARE: Intermittent problem with stats reporting" [Undecided,New] | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | tracy go! | 17:12 |
| tjones | CRITICAL! blocking CI | 17:12 |
| hartsocks | awesome. | 17:12 |
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| tjones | and someone from this TZ should take it on so we can work with ryan and sreeram on it. gary was looking, but its at the end of his day | 17:13 |
| tjones | sabari was taking it but he was sick yesterday | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | Technically, we can't put things under "Critical" since our driver's failures don't hit critical in the grand OpenStack scheme of things. | 17:13 |
| tjones | ok super high ;-) | 17:13 |
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| garyk | tjones: i looked at the log files that they provided but there was only one concerning then - a image was unable to be deleted | 17:13 |
| hartsocks | So this I'll tack to the vmwareapi subteam thingy. | 17:13 |
| tjones | but it is affecting CI which makes it important | 17:13 |
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| garyk | the bug is criticial | 17:14 |
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| hartsocks | yeah. I guess now that our CI is feeding the Openstack infra we can claim that. Let's do it and see what happens. | 17:14 |
| garyk | i think that we need to provide a debug version to sreeram and ryan and see where it goes from there. | 17:14 |
| garyk | i'll give them something soon | 17:15 |
| tjones | i don't know if sabari is here today - if not who wants to take it? I can't as i have a prep for a demo tomorrow :-P | 17:15 |
| garyk | i can look into it in the coming hours | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | #action Gary to follow up on blocking bug/1252827 | 17:15 |
| hartsocks | cool. | 17:15 |
| tjones | thanks garyk - you'll need to pass it on to someone at the end of your day | 17:15 |
| garyk | tjones: ok, np | 17:16 |
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| hartsocks | okay, let's not drop that one then. | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | last one… then on to other topics | 17:16 |
| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1251501 | 17:17 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1251501 in nova "VMware: error when booting sparse images" [Undecided,New] | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | Where did we go on that one? | 17:17 |
| vuil | hi just checking in. | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | hey. | 17:17 |
| tjones | that looks like a backport issue (on my part) it does not happen in master | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | Just in time. | 17:17 |
| tjones | i'll take a look | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | cool. | 17:17 |
| vuil | cool. was wondering whay Ryan meant | 17:17 |
| hartsocks | so that might not be an issue. | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | good. | 17:18 |
| tjones | not for master :-) | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | Okay. | 17:18 |
| hartsocks | So bugs in general. | 17:18 |
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| hartsocks | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1195139 | 17:19 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1195139 in nova "vmware Hyper doesn't report hypervisor version correctly to database" [Critical,In progress] | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | This one popped into my attention. | 17:19 |
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| garyk | that is fixed and waiting for review | 17:19 |
| hartsocks | Gary, you moved the priority on this and it looks like you got some push back in review. | 17:19 |
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| garyk | it was −2 due to the inavlid bug status 'won't fix' | 17:19 |
| garyk | it was fixed and vakiudated by a QE engineer at HP who encountered the problem | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/53109/ | 17:20 |
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| garyk | i have update the bug status and hopefully the reviewr will understand | 17:20 |
| garyk | please exscuse my spelling - i am trying to do three things at once and not succeeding in any of them | 17:20 |
| hartsocks | So I remember this issue is that the idea of numbers for versions doesn't work universally. | 17:21 |
| garyk | at the moment no one has provided a hypervisor version that does not work with the numbers. | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | I understand we can't fix upstream … so this is an attempt to solve a blocking problem. | 17:21 |
| hartsocks | So the argument is that it's an academic argument. | 17:21 |
| garyk | upstream there are 2 issues | 17:22 |
| hartsocks | For example: W13k isn't the version of any existing hypervisor. | 17:22 |
| garyk | 1. the bug fix | 17:22 |
| garyk | 2. chnaging the way that is is used in the db | 17:22 |
| garyk | the latter was not liked for reasons unbeknownst to me | 17:22 |
| garyk | in the short term we should go with #1 | 17:22 |
| hartsocks | If they won't change the DB then I suppose we're forced to do it this way. | 17:23 |
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| garyk | sadly this is what we have until someone makes the chnages to the db. | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | Why is it critical? Is it blocking something? | 17:23 |
| garyk | at this stage i am not sure if anyone is actually doing that work | 17:23 |
| garyk | it is critical - one cannot use postgres with our hypervisor | 17:23 |
| hartsocks | I'm expecting we'll get a knock on the head for calling it critical but I'll let it ride just to see where the line is. | 17:25 |
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| garyk | if others disagree they can chnage the severity | 17:25 |
| hartsocks | It's a shame this got knocked around so long if it's critical. | 17:25 |
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| hartsocks | Do you need someone to reach out to Joe since he's the one who blocked you? | 17:26 |
| hartsocks | I'll take that off line. | 17:26 |
| garyk | i sent him a mail and wrote on the review. if you could reach out to him it will be great. | 17:26 |
| garyk | thanks | 17:26 |
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| hartsocks | #action follow up on why bug/1195139 is blocked. | 17:27 |
| hartsocks | Okay. | 17:27 |
| hartsocks | So does anyone else have a bug we need to discuss and sync up on? | 17:27 |
| * hartsocks politely listens for people who are slower on the keys. | 17:28 | |
| hartsocks | okay. We'll have open discussion at the end. | 17:29 |
| hartsocks | #topic blueprints | 17:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:29 | |
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| hartsocks | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova?searchtext=vmware | 17:29 |
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| hartsocks | So let's do this. | 17:30 |
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| hartsocks | Let's pick a blueprint and discuss it and it's priority to the project, and try and do a different one each week. | 17:30 |
| garyk | hartsocks: sadly all bps are set as low until 2 cores jump in... | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | yes. | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | For background... | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | if you weren't following, the BP process changed. So that if you want higher than "low" priority you have to get 2 core developers signed up for your BP. | 17:31 |
| hartsocks | In all fairness this doesn't mean a BP won't get done, it just means it won't get done as fast. Virtually all our BP were "low" last round and many still made it in. | 17:32 |
| hartsocks | On the link I posted... | 17:33 |
| tjones | so our config checker (which i have done nothing on) didn't make this list cause it doesn't say vmware in it… | 17:33 |
| garyk | i just hope that we manage to convince the core guys to jump in and review our stuff. at the moment it seems to be going as usual. an example is the diagnostics. russel has been very helpful here | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | *all* but one of our BP have been bumped *below* "low" priority BTW. | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | tjones: it's a dumb query, best I have. | 17:33 |
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| tjones | that's ok - i;ll work around it | 17:33 |
| hartsocks | tjones: post your BP so we can pick on… er… dicuss it. | 17:34 |
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| hartsocks | :-) | 17:34 |
| tjones | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/config-validation-script | 17:34 |
| tjones | it's OUR BP ;-) | 17:34 |
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| hartsocks | Actually, it's *awesome* that this happened. | 17:34 |
| ogelbukh | :) | 17:35 |
| tjones | i just put vmware in it ;-) | 17:35 |
| hartsocks | I called my old BP on the configuration validator for the driver defunct. This is much better. | 17:35 |
| tjones | ogelbukh did a nice job of capturing requirements in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/w5BwMtCG6z | 17:36 |
| ogelbukh | we have 2 distinct parts in it | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | tjones: make sure to link that into the BP. | 17:36 |
| tjones | just did | 17:36 |
| hartsocks | ogelbukh: go ahead | 17:37 |
| ogelbukh | first is modifications to common config | 17:37 |
| ogelbukh | additional flag types and validations | 17:38 |
| tjones | i like the idea of doing that part in oslo and auto generating | 17:38 |
| ogelbukh | there are multiple blueprints along that lines | 17:38 |
| ogelbukh | and i think vmware part will be the first one to implement as it's first use case | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | Yeah. The validation and config-check thing is a cross-cutting concern for even VMwareAPI related drivers... | 17:39 |
| hartsocks | the folks on Cinder have some of the same validation checks the folks on Nova will. | 17:39 |
| ogelbukh | second part is standalone tool capable of per-service validation | 17:39 |
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| ogelbukh | of cross-services consistency | 17:40 |
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| hartsocks | My chief concern about validation at service start up and validation in a stand alone tool… was that this would be mostly the same code … so I wanted to see code reuse to avoid duplicate work. | 17:41 |
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| tjones | absoutely | 17:41 |
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| ogelbukh | my idea right now is that it should 'register' service config or something like that | 17:42 |
| hartsocks | So I take it this is going to be part Oslo-level work and part work at the driver level? | 17:42 |
| ogelbukh | and validate against 'known' configs | 17:42 |
| ogelbukh | but that has implications | 17:42 |
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| ogelbukh | and I'm still trying to identify all of them | 17:42 |
| ogelbukh | hartsocks: tjones: I'm not sure that validation logic will be the same for those 2 parts | 17:43 |
| hartsocks | Okay. | 17:43 |
| tjones | config validation? | 17:43 |
| ogelbukh | with oslo.config part it is mostly additional types and regexp matching | 17:44 |
| hartsocks | Hmm... | 17:44 |
| ogelbukh | while in cross-services part we'll have to inspect sematics | 17:44 |
| ogelbukh | *semantics | 17:45 |
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| ogelbukh | logical connections between services | 17:45 |
| ogelbukh | that are not explicit in the code | 17:45 |
| tjones | service validation at runtime would get deeper into the config but config validation can be done either place | 17:45 |
| tjones | 2 different things to attack | 17:46 |
| ogelbukh | sure | 17:46 |
| ogelbukh | yes | 17:46 |
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| hartsocks | should we have a separate session to discuss this in depth? | 17:46 |
| tjones | so how best to work on this further? another irc meeting ?? | 17:46 |
| tjones | lol - read my mind | 17:46 |
| ogelbukh | i believe so ) | 17:46 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 17:46 |
| ogelbukh | we could have a call in webex or google hangouts if you like | 17:47 |
| ogelbukh | but time windows are really narrow | 17:47 |
| hartsocks | #action set up meeting (in IRC or otherwise) for ogelbukh, tjones, hartsocks, (and anyone else interested) to discuss config validation | 17:47 |
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| ogelbukh | given i'm in utc+8 | 17:47 |
| ogelbukh | *utc+4 | 17:47 |
| hartsocks | Yeah. | 17:47 |
| tjones | yes they are very narrow - are you in australia? | 17:47 |
| ogelbukh | and 12 hours difference with PST | 17:47 |
| hartsocks | Well I have a teeny tiny baby… so sometimes 8pm to midnight EST is the best time for me. | 17:47 |
| ogelbukh | no, Russia | 17:47 |
| ogelbukh | Mosciw TZ | 17:48 |
| tjones | ah | 17:48 |
| ogelbukh | *Moscow | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | cool | 17:48 |
| tjones | very cool | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | sometimes snowy and cold even. | 17:48 |
| ogelbukh | :) | 17:48 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 17:48 |
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| ogelbukh | probably in 2 weeks ) | 17:48 |
| ogelbukh | so we could start with another irc | 17:48 |
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| hartsocks | We are holding #openstack-vmware for discussions people aren't 100% sure go in #openstack-nova | 17:49 |
| ogelbukh | ok | 17:49 |
| ogelbukh | that's cool | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | This is one of those that can probably go either place. | 17:49 |
| ogelbukh | i'm already there | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | So let's table that BP for now. | 17:49 |
| hartsocks | #topic open discussion | 17:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)" | 17:50 | |
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| hartsocks | Last 10 minutes, for anything people need to call out. | 17:50 |
| * hartsocks listens | 17:50 | |
| garyk | fyi - i have given sreeram and ryan a debug version. | 17:51 |
| garyk | troubling line of code - https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/virt/vmwareapi/host.py#L118 | 17:51 |
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| garyk | i have seen exceptions that they have datastore access problems | 17:51 |
| tjones | and everything is returning 0 | 17:52 |
| garyk | sreeram had a very good idea of not resetting the stats - we just need to validtae | 17:52 |
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| vuil | Can happen sometimes especially with NFS datastores. | 17:52 |
| hartsocks | So, sometimes an NFS datastore is "not found" and then later it is? | 17:53 |
| * hartsocks boggles | 17:53 | |
| tjones | ugh | 17:53 |
| vuil | yeah. transient network connectivity issues can cause that | 17:53 |
| tjones | VC too then | 17:53 |
| * hartsocks nods knowingly | 17:53 | |
| tjones | wonder how they handle it | 17:53 |
| garyk | i am not sure. hopefully after a run or 2 we'll have some debug info | 17:53 |
| hartsocks | It's "the 7 fallacies of Network programming" | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | or something like that. | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacies_of_Distributed_Computing | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | Looks like I remembered wrong. There are 8. | 17:54 |
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| tjones | 1. the network is reliable | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | *lol* | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | yep. | 17:54 |
| hartsocks | Is it *ironic* that our "cloud computing" code suffers from a lot of these? | 17:55 |
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| garyk | i think that they need to reevaluate after the advent of SDN | 17:55 |
| hartsocks | there might be more? | 17:56 |
| hartsocks | :-) | 17:56 |
| garyk | :) | 17:56 |
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| hartsocks | I have nothing against short meetings. | 17:57 |
| hartsocks | As I proved earlier. :-) … going once... | 17:58 |
| hartsocks | … twice ... | 17:58 |
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| hartsocks | … three times... | 17:59 |
| hartsocks | #endmeeting | 17:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 20 17:59:13 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-11-20-17.01.html | 17:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-11-20-17.01.txt | 17:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2013/vmwareapi.2013-11-20-17.01.log.html | 17:59 |
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| hartsocks | I'll be over on #openstack-vmware in about 30 minutes. | 17:59 |
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| stevebaker | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 20 20:00:02 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| asalkeld | o/ | 20:00 |
| zaneb | greetings, y'all | 20:00 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:00 |
| sdake_ | o/ | 20:00 |
| tspatzier | hi all | 20:00 |
| tims1 | o/ | 20:00 |
| vijendar | hi | 20:00 |
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| jpeeler | hi | 20:00 |
| adrian_otto | o/ | 20:00 |
| mspreitz | o/ | 20:00 |
| lakshmi | o/ | 20:00 |
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| stevebaker | #topic Review last meeting's actions | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last meeting's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| bgorski | o/ | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | stevebaker re-organise software config blueprints | 20:01 |
| stevebaker | stevebaker to go through summit etherpads and make sure all blueprints are raised https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Icehouse/Etherpads#Heat | 20:02 |
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| stevebaker | What I did to is triage every New blueprint. I closed some software config blueprints | 20:02 |
| asalkeld | well done | 20:02 |
| sdake_ | sounds like serious fun stevebaker | 20:03 |
| asalkeld | serious button pushing | 20:03 |
| adrian_otto | :-) | 20:03 |
| sdake_ | ;) | 20:03 |
| sdake_ | mouse button broken imo :) | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | I made some arbitrary decisions on what to obsolete, what to target for icehouse-2, and what the implementation progress was for some of them, so feel free to correct anything you think was wrong | 20:03 |
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| stevebaker | #topic Adding items to the agenda | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:04 | |
| stevebaker | anybody got anything to add? | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | not from me | 20:04 |
| radix | oh man | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | 5 min meeting? | 20:04 |
| radix | meeting time, okay | 20:04 |
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| stevebaker | radix: want to talk autoscaling? I'm sure you're not sick of that ;) | 20:05 |
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| radix | stevebaker: I think the discussion is going well in the mailing list | 20:05 |
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| stevebaker | ok | 20:05 |
| radix | I've punted the ball back over to zane's court ;) | 20:05 |
| sdake_ | we should have more bikeshedding imo :) | 20:05 |
| sdake_ | i have 1 q | 20:05 |
| zaneb | radix: pretty sure it's back in your court ;) | 20:06 |
| radix | have we all agreed on whether the as api will be a separate process? therve has already started the first patch | 20:06 |
| sdake_ | I saw a msg from steve b re integration into the main process vs separate process | 20:06 |
| sdake_ | was a decision made on this point? | 20:06 |
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| radix | zaneb: hmm, I thought I sent the last email | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | #topic autoscaling | 20:06 |
| zaneb | radix: wait, you're right. I haven't hit send yet | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "autoscaling (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:06 | |
| radix | zaneb: hah, ok :) | 20:06 |
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| * zaneb hits send | 20:07 | |
| radix | sdake_: well, therve has already started writing a patch that puts it in different engine/api processes | 20:07 |
| zaneb | radix: back in your court ;) | 20:07 |
| radix | so it's not like it'll save us any time to integrate it into the main process at this point | 20:07 |
| radix | zaneb: thanks :) | 20:07 |
| stevebaker | zaneb wants it to be a separate endpoint, separate everything is probably fine if therve is doing it that way | 20:07 |
| sdake_ | radix sounds like win to me | 20:08 |
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| sdake_ | randall is here over shoulder | 20:08 |
| radix | at least that gives us a little bit of room to keep working :) | 20:08 |
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| radix | anyway that's all I have for now, happy to continue discussing on the ML | 20:09 |
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| stevebaker | btw, I think resource group is a useful thing, as scaling != autoscaling | 20:09 |
| mspreitz_too | what is reln with heat-native resource group? | 20:09 |
| zaneb | sdake_: I have a question for randall about the resourcegroup | 20:09 |
| radix | oh... one note, rackspace is launching their "auto scale" api today, the one based on Otter. just to assuage any fears, no plans have changed on basically dropping that in favor of heat auto scale once it solves those use cases | 20:09 |
| sdake_ | shoot (Randall) | 20:09 |
| radix | (I just saw a tweet announcement come up 30 seconds ago) | 20:09 |
| mspreitz_too | will autoscaling use heat-native resource group? | 20:10 |
| sdake_ | zaneb: this is randall | 20:10 |
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| zaneb | sdake_: is that something that's supposed to be leading toward the autoscaling implementation, or... something else (please specify) | 20:10 |
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| stevebaker | I think trove, savanna etc will be doing a lot of generating templates then running stack-update where the only thing that changes is the count of identical resources | 20:10 |
| radix | mspreitz_too: the autoscaling API that we're working on for icehouse scales heat resources, if that's what you're asking | 20:10 |
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| randallburt | zaneb based on earlier discussions its what it says on the tin. an unopinionated group of similar resources | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | SpamapS: here? | 20:11 |
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| randallburt | it could certainly be used as the basis for a scaling group since its not opinionated about what those resources are | 20:11 |
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| mspreitz_too | I am asking how https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/native-resource-group relates to autoscaling | 20:11 |
| zaneb | randallburt: it seems like something we're just going to want to deprecate when we have the scaling API up and running... | 20:11 |
| asalkeld | mspreitz_too, not sure | 20:12 |
| shardy | mspreitz_too: I expect the existing Heat resources which do scaling groups to be reimplemented using the AS API, not sure about static groups such as resource-group | 20:12 |
| randallburt | zaneb, why? what if I don't want that and just a static group of "things" | 20:12 |
| zaneb | mspreitz_too: me too, that's what we're discussing at the moment | 20:12 |
| mspreitz_too | The multiplier of a static group can be changed with an UPDATE, right? So how is it static? | 20:12 |
| zaneb | randallburt: I though we already agreed that it would be more about scaling in general and not just autoscaling | 20:13 |
| randallburt | or AS group could be a special kind of resource group. it already does some of the things we talked about scaling group doing | 20:13 |
| zaneb | randallburt: like we do with instancegroup | 20:13 |
| shardy | mspreitz_too: Each definition of it is static, rather than modified by heat | 20:13 |
| radix | yeah, it's the policy that makes it "auto", you can certainly treat scaling groups just like resource groups I think | 20:13 |
| shardy | stack-update != autoscaling | 20:13 |
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| randallburt | radix yup | 20:13 |
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| mspreitz_too | So I am getting the idea that autoscaling is auto mgmt of a 'static" resource group | 20:14 |
| randallburt | mspreitz_too, could be, I haven't looked at therve's latest tbh | 20:14 |
| shardy | mspreitz_too: That may, possibly be an implementation option | 20:15 |
| zaneb | randallburt: so, my concern is that this is a _new_ type of abstraction, and I am trying to push the idea of basing autoscaling on existing abstractions because past experience has shown us that there are a huge number of corner cases to deal with when you create a new abstraction for a nested stack | 20:15 |
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| radix | unfortunately I have to go (because I again forgot about the different meeting time in my timezone)... I'll read the log when I get back and keep up with the ML :) | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | see ya | 20:16 |
| randallburt | zaneb understood, but there's no current native way to say "a group of all the same things" | 20:16 |
| randallburt | so it was a missing implementation of a current abstraction | 20:16 |
| zaneb | randallburt: right, but autoscaling will deliver that | 20:16 |
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| randallburt | without scaling semantics | 20:16 |
| zaneb | randallburt: would you say that InstanceGroup is "without scaling semantics"? | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | can't this be a bit more hidden? | 20:17 |
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| zaneb | randallburt: because I wouldn't, but this seems the same | 20:17 |
| randallburt | zaneb I suppose | 20:17 |
| asalkeld | like we have a generice resource attribute called "count" | 20:17 |
| zaneb | do a stack update with a different size, and you have to scale it | 20:17 |
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| asalkeld | zaneb, InstanceGroup is a server, his thing is generic | 20:18 |
| zaneb | except that InstanceGroup handles all kinds of fancy cases, like rolling updates, correctly and this doesn't | 20:18 |
| randallburt | I think we're arguing the semantics of "count" | 20:18 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: I realise the reason for implementing it | 20:18 |
| randallburt | update handles a different set of things then autoscaling | 20:18 |
| randallburt | they seem like diffeferent things to me zaneb | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | so I am also a little uneasy about it | 20:19 |
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| asalkeld | but not sure what | 20:19 |
| sdkae | ^^ was from sdake | 20:19 |
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| sdkae | _ | 20:19 |
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| sdake_ | november ftw | 20:20 |
| zaneb | sdake_: if you have a count property and you change it during an update, you have to scale somehow | 20:20 |
| sdake_ | ya | 20:20 |
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| zaneb | unless you say replace on update only | 20:20 |
| angusss | yeah go make more | 20:21 |
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| randallburt | ok, but that's a result of stack update, not some other scaling mechanism | 20:21 |
| randallburt | and its optional and could be static as a group | 20:22 |
| zaneb | randallburt: right, and I think we want the autoscaling api to work well for that use case too | 20:22 |
| randallburt | zaneb: I totally agree | 20:22 |
| randallburt | what is a ZangMingjie? | 20:23 |
| zaneb | uh, someones IRC handle. you just pinged him/her, so we'll soon find out :D | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | is it likely that the autoscaling api will use the native resource group? | 20:24 |
| randallburt | seems a good fit to me, | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | that would make this argument moot | 20:25 |
| zaneb | randallburt: from the perspective of today it looks like a useful feature, but from the perspective of end-of-icehouse it looks like a less featured/buggier version of a scaling API resource | 20:25 |
| shardy | stevebaker: I think it may be too inflexible, as ideally we want the complexity of rolling updates etc in the AS API, not the resource-group resource | 20:25 |
| randallburt | how is it buggier? | 20:25 |
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| randallburt | so that's extending what's there shardy, it can be bult upon. | 20:26 |
| zaneb | randallburt: we won't know until we know ;) | 20:26 |
| randallburt | how can something be buggier than an thing that doesn't exist? ;) | 20:26 |
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| shardy | randallburt: I thought the whole point of the AS API was to contain scaling related policy, rather than implementing it all in Heat | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | but it could evolve to provide the bits of rolling updates that make sense to put in that layer | 20:26 |
| sdake_ | zaneb my take is we dont really want autoscaling in heat directly if we can depend on a third party service for it | 20:26 |
| shardy | otherwise, what are we doing it for? | 20:27 |
| sdake_ | the main rationale why we couldn't in the past is because we needed autoscaling and there was no short path to integration with openstack | 20:27 |
| sdake_ | we have solved that problem, so lets make the software simpler by breaking out the autoscaling | 20:27 |
| shardy | sdake_, randallburt: seriously, don't you have two laptops? ;D | 20:27 |
| sdake_ | now that the political bs is out of the way | 20:27 |
| sdake_ | i have one :) | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | I say we park this for now. therve and radix need to be here, and the autoscaling implementation needs to be further down the track | 20:28 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: if this were to become the basis for autoscaling, it would need to acquire all the features we have built into autoscaling, like rolling updates. it's a step backward in that sense | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | #topic icehouse-1 release | 20:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-1 release (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:29 | |
| stevebaker | so i-1 is in 2 weeks! | 20:29 |
| shardy | eek | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/icehouse-1 | 20:29 |
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| stevebaker | I've punted blueprints which have no sign of being started | 20:29 |
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| sdake_ | looks pretty good | 20:30 |
| sdake_ | whats story with this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/filter-stacks | 20:30 |
| shardy | 102 bugs, lol | 20:30 |
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| stevebaker | But more will need to be punted I think. I'm pretty sure all those blueprints have code in-flight, but some are quite dormant | 20:30 |
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| sdake_ | can fix bugs tomorrow | 20:31 |
| sdake_ | always tomorrow :) | 20:31 |
| shardy | sdake_: I think there are patches up for that already | 20:31 |
| sdake_ | shardy cool | 20:31 |
| stevebaker | I think filter-stacks might need a bit of scrutiny. status is the only column that makes sense for exact match | 20:32 |
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| stevebaker | created_at, updated_at needs a range | 20:32 |
| andersonvom | shardy and sdake_: we can update the status on that. patches were submitted. they need review, though | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | name needs a text search based index | 20:32 |
| sdake_ | ya just done | 20:32 |
| shardy | andersonvom: Ok, thanks, we can continue the discussion on the reviews then :) | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/resource-support-status | 20:33 |
| shardy | andersonvom, arbylee: FYI the requirements of management-api were discussed at this weeks keystone meeting | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/filter-resources-by-support | 20:33 |
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| shardy | I'm trying to figure out the way forward related to tenantles or service-scoped role assignments to allow global requests | 20:34 |
| arbylee | shardy: is there a summary/output of that meeting available? | 20:34 |
| dolphm | (the conversation quickly escalated to scope creep galore, unfortunately) | 20:34 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: ^ are proposing that a resource's supported status be associated with a heat release version, eg DEPRECATED at 2013.1 | 20:34 |
| dolphm | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/tenantless-assignments | 20:34 |
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| shardy | arbylee: see https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting for a link to the logs | 20:34 |
| * stevebaker wants less tentacles | 20:35 | |
| andersonvom | shardy: thanks. we'll take a look at that | 20:35 |
| dolphm | arbylee: checkout the keystone bp above | 20:35 |
| shardy | dolphm: Is your feeling that this is achieveable for Icehouse? | 20:35 |
| arbylee | dolphm, shardy: thanks | 20:35 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: yeah, I don't know about that. versions are pretty fluid. and operators can deploy any plugins they want | 20:35 |
| dolphm | shardy: the bp above- yes. with scope creep- i'm not sure. it's a pile of complicated wishlist items that won't be consumed in icehouse | 20:36 |
| shardy | dolphm: Ok, lets see how it foes, thanks :) | 20:36 |
| shardy | s/foes/goes | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: my objective is a single version of resource documentation, I can't think of any other way of documenting what works in what version without giving meaning to our release numbers | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: an alternative will be a template guide maintained per major release. But in reality users will read the first template guide they find in google | 20:39 |
| sdake_ | from a downstream perspective separate docs per version would be preferrable | 20:39 |
| zaneb | otoh they can query the api to get all of this info | 20:39 |
| sdake_ | zaneb++ | 20:39 |
| stevebaker | vijendar: there hasn't been a lot of action in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/dbaas-trove-resource recently. Should I bump to i-2 | 20:40 |
| zaneb | sdake_: right, but ideally the latest docs should contain the history | 20:40 |
| zaneb | ideally. | 20:40 |
| sdake_ | if latest docs contain history, wfm | 20:40 |
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| sdake_ | but i'm not clear on how this is done | 20:40 |
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| stevebaker | how can it contain the history if it doesn't mention release versions? | 20:41 |
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| vijendar | stevebaker: I was blocked on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52137/ | 20:41 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: yes, I was arguing your side of the case | 20:41 |
| * zaneb is on the fence | 20:42 | |
| * stevebaker is about to tip zaneb back to the other side | 20:42 | |
| stevebaker | zaneb: so if documentation mentions release versions, wouldn't that give value to a build_info API ;) | 20:42 |
| zaneb | rofl | 20:43 |
| stevebaker | I'm out | 20:43 |
| * stevebaker drops the mic | 20:43 | |
| zaneb | I'm not against a build_info API | 20:44 |
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| zaneb | in fact, I think all of OpenStack should have one | 20:44 |
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| shardy | I think documentation should relate to API or template versions, not a build | 20:44 |
| asalkeld | I have to be off - organize kids | 20:44 |
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| sdake_ | later angus | 20:44 |
| zaneb | as long as operators have to make a conscious choice as to what info they make available there | 20:44 |
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| shardy | Or even a major version, but that's better than relying on a constantly changing build_info | 20:45 |
| stevebaker | ok, it looks like we can move forward on those in the review comments then | 20:45 |
| andersonvom | shardy: agreed | 20:45 |
| shardy | The thing is, when things stablize, we may not want to bump template format versions, or resource versions or whatever every major release | 20:45 |
| andersonvom | build_info is still pretty useful, though | 20:45 |
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| stevebaker | Can anybody tell if this is complete? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/heat/+spec/oslo-db-support | 20:45 |
| zaneb | shardy: but resource type docs are even *less* related to API and template versions than they are to build versions (where the link is already tenuous) | 20:45 |
| sdake_ | relying on buildinfo for resource info seems tenuous | 20:46 |
| shardy | andersonvom: now it's authenticated and optional, I'm not opposed to it, I just think for docs, we need something more concrete | 20:46 |
| stevebaker | After icehouse I may advocate putting our core resource types on a separate release cycle | 20:46 |
| shardy | zaneb: Sure, we have different versions for API, template, and resources | 20:46 |
| sdake_ | what is the downside of having multiple versions of the docs? | 20:46 |
| sdake_ | stevebaker brought up "google search" as one problem | 20:46 |
| sdake_ | any others? | 20:47 |
| shardy | those versions can have different granularity and cadence | 20:47 |
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| shardy | zaneb: maybe "major version" is an appropriate cadence for resource versions, but what if a large subset doesn't change? | 20:47 |
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| shardy | I certainly hope there won't be huge churn in resource schema every release | 20:48 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: maybe we should just make the docs available through the api as HTML | 20:48 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: that's the only reliable reference anyway | 20:48 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: on teh fly sphinx generation? | 20:48 |
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| sdake_ | sounds like potential security issues with that | 20:49 |
| shardy | zaneb: That doesn't really help template authors who want/need to support things over time tho? | 20:49 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: no, definitely not sphinx | 20:49 |
| stevebaker | ;) | 20:49 |
| zaneb | writing html is easy, I have full confidence that somebody here could do it ;) | 20:50 |
| sdake_ | jamming the docs near the api is an interesting idea - maybe should be breought up as a cross-project object on ml | 20:50 |
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| sdake_ | object/project | 20:50 |
| stevebaker | requiring that a browser does keystone auth may be tricky though | 20:50 |
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| zaneb | shardy: the only relevant information is "what will work on the clouds I want to deploy to". And the only way to reliably find that out is to ask them. | 20:50 |
| stevebaker | could just ask for content-type text/html on the current /resource_types | 20:51 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: good point. we could use an unauthenticated endpoint, so long as it still does throttling &c. | 20:51 |
| shardy | zaneb: That is a major barrier to template portability tho, if folks can't specify a version when they author the template, and expect it to work, and keep working | 20:51 |
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| sdake_ | seems simpler just to keep the docs offline tho zaneb | 20:51 |
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| dolphm | stevebaker: we'd like to support basic auth for the single domain deployments | 20:52 |
| dolphm | stevebaker: or even support tokens in a basic auth header | 20:52 |
| stevebaker | we're almost out of time, any other blueprints in https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/icehouse-1 that people have concerns with? | 20:52 |
| sdake_ | stevebaker lgtm | 20:52 |
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| zaneb | shardy: agreed, but that problem is inevitable in OpenStack. AWS doesn't have that problem because there's only one of them. But we are deliberately giving operators the flexibility to make choices | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | #topic open discussion | 20:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:53 | |
| bgorski | I have a question about multi-region. Did you have time to read the discussion on ML? Are everybody okay with choosing the option (2) from Zane's diagram as a way to go? | 20:53 |
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| stevebaker | 7 minutes | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | bgorski: sounds good to me. btw I have locally implemented a clients.py heat() | 20:54 |
| andersonvom | sooo, build_info! while we also agree that the other openstack projects should/could have it too, isn't it possible that we pull it in and set the example for now? | 20:54 |
| shardy | zaneb: yeah, I just think, if we go to the effort of versioning resource schema, we probably have to give users a choice rather than a constantly expanding matrix of incompatibility | 20:54 |
| shardy | zaneb: it is a hard problem tho ;) | 20:54 |
| andersonvom | then, in the future, if other projects decide to join in, we can talk again and realign | 20:54 |
| bgorski | stevebaker, What you mean by locally implemented? | 20:55 |
| stevebaker | bgorski: in my tree, no review yet | 20:55 |
| zaneb | bgorski: he means he hasn't pushed the patch yet | 20:55 |
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| bgorski | ok good to hear that | 20:55 |
| bgorski | when you will push it to review? | 20:56 |
| stevebaker | um, soon | 20:56 |
| stevebaker | hopefully before EOW | 20:56 |
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| bgorski | nice I'm looking forward to check it out | 20:57 |
| stevebaker | not that anything is gating currently anyway | 20:57 |
| andersonvom | zaneb, stevebaker, shardy: sooo, build_info! while we also agree that the other openstack projects should/could have it too, isn't it possible that we pull it in and set the example for now? and, if other projects decide to add it too, we can talk again an realign. how's that? | 20:58 |
| andersonvom | = ] | 20:58 |
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| mspreitz_too | connectivity glitch hit last time I asked, so I will ask again. Steve Baker, are you implementing software config and, if so, how are you dealing with the circular dependency that Clint harps on? | 20:58 |
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| shardy | andersonvom: didn't you just say that? :P | 20:58 |
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| stevebaker | andersonvom: I think we're in favour, but zaneb's last review comment recommended getting the version from not heat.conf | 20:58 |
| andersonvom | yes, but I didn't ping anyone and no one seemed to have seen it =) | 20:59 |
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| shardy | andersonvom: I think we can continue the discussion specific to the patch on the review | 20:59 |
| zaneb | andersonvom: two concerns: 1) we might set a bad example, which would mean having to redo it, deprecate, migrate &c. | 20:59 |
| stevebaker | mspreitz_too: I'm working on a POC then will ask IBM for help. It will be implemented with a SoftwareConfig/SoftwareApplier resource pair | 20:59 |
| stevebaker | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 20 21:00:01 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-11-20-20.00.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-11-20-20.00.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2013/heat.2013-11-20-20.00.log.html | 21:00 |
| stevebaker | 4 seconds over | 21:00 |
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| eglynn | #startmeeting ceilometer | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Nov 20 21:00:11 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eglynn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:00 |
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| lsmola_ | hello | 21:00 |
| eglynn | hey everybody, show of hands? | 21:00 |
| eglynn | jd__ is indisposed this week, so I'll fight the ircbot again ... | 21:00 |
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| eglynn | tumble weeds ... ;) | 21:01 |
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| lsmola_ | o/ | 21:01 |
| gordc | o/ | 21:01 |
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| lsmola_ | my hand is here | 21:01 |
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| lsmola_ | :-) | 21:01 |
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| eglynn | fairly thin attendance by the looks of it ... | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
| eglynn | I'll put it down to post-HK exhaustion ;) | 21:02 |
| terriyu | o/ | 21:02 |
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| eglynn | hey y'all | 21:02 |
| eglynn | k, lets roll ... | 21:02 |
| eglynn | #topic actions from last week ... | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last week ... (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:02 | |
| eglynn | jd__ was to propose a patch on the governance gerrit for our new OpenStack Telemetry moniket | 21:02 |
| * dhellmann has a flakey irc connection today, so messages are coming in bunches after a delay | 21:02 | |
| eglynn | that was done, here's the review ... | 21:02 |
| eglynn | #link https://review.openstack.org/56402 | 21:03 |
| eglynn | proving fairly un-controversial so far | 21:03 |
| eglynn | other that the TeleWTF? jibe from markmc ;) | 21:03 |
| eglynn | should land soon enough methinks | 21:03 |
| eglynn | anyone with buyer's remose on the name choice? | 21:03 |
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| gordc | that's what google is for... to answer 'wtf' part | 21:04 |
| ildikov | hi all | 21:04 |
| eglynn | gordc: yep | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | I like the new name, nice work eglynn | 21:04 |
| eglynn | cool :) | 21:04 |
| eglynn | #topic status on icehouse-1 | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "status on icehouse-1 (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:05 | |
| eglynn | it's looking pretty thin | 21:05 |
| eglynn | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/icehouse-1 | 21:05 |
| eglynn | I guess because of the shorter than usual summit-->milestone-1 lead in | 21:05 |
| eglynn | I think that's OK | 21:05 |
| eglynn | ... probably a pattern reflected somewhat in the other projects too | 21:05 |
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| eglynn | release mgr's thought on this at the project meeting last night: | 21:06 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, ttx said the -1 milestone was set to basically include stuff that was in process already at the summit | 21:06 |
| eglynn | using icehouse-1 it to clean up the slate and prepare for the real work is fine | 21:06 |
| * eglynn paraphrasing ^^^ | 21:06 | |
| nealph | so really, a thin -1 release is a good thing? | 21:06 |
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| nealph | :) | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | yes | 21:06 |
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| eglynn | nealph: well it's also a busy time in the cycle for those with distros to get out the door | 21:07 |
| eglynn | so overall understandable | 21:07 |
| eglynn | but means we'll be pretty backloaded for i2 & i3 | 21:07 |
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| eglynn | does anyone have anything up their sleeve they'd like to target at i-1? | 21:08 |
| eglynn | relaistically speaking, it would have to be more a bug fix than a BP at this late stage | 21:08 |
| eglynn | nope? | 21:09 |
| eglynn | k | 21:09 |
| nealph | I think john (herndon) is looking at the event | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | were any features implemented after the havana cut-off without a blueprint? | 21:09 |
| nealph | storage updates. | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | those would be candidates to be added for i-1 | 21:09 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: none that I can think of | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | eglynn: I didn't think so, either | 21:10 |
| eglynn | nealph: those storage updates == DB migrations? | 21:10 |
| eglynn | (for events) | 21:10 |
| nealph | no...one sec...digging for BP. | 21:11 |
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| nealph | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=specify-event-api | 21:12 |
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| eglynn | so it would really need to be well progressed implementation-wise (approaching code-complete) by EoW to have a realistic chance of landing for i-1 | 21:13 |
| eglynn | (given the review lag etc.) | 21:13 |
| nealph | noted. I'll leave it to him to comment further. | 21:13 |
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| * eglynn notices status is blocked | 21:14 | |
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| eglynn | k, let's punt on the specify-event-api until herndon and jd__ are around to discuss | 21:15 |
| herndon_ | was blocked waiting on alembic vs. sqlalchemy | 21:15 |
| herndon_ | sorry, I showed up late | 21:15 |
| eglynn | herndon_: np! thanks for the clarification | 21:15 |
| herndon_ | making good progress now, 4 reviews up. | 21:16 |
| eglynn | herndon_: so, were you eyeing up icehouse-1 for this? | 21:16 |
| herndon_ | that would be great | 21:16 |
| eglynn | herndon_: (for context, I don't think there's any particular pressure to beef up i-1, but if the feature ready to fly ...) | 21:16 |
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| herndon_ | let's see where we are by the end of this week? there is still work to do on the ceilometerclient bit, I think | 21:17 |
| herndon_ | and documentation. | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | it's better to target something for a later milestone and finish it early than the other way around | 21:17 |
| eglynn | herndon_: cool let's see how the reviews progress on gerrit, make a call by EoW | 21:17 |
| eglynn | dhellmann: fair point | 21:18 |
| eglynn | moving on ... | 21:18 |
| eglynn | #topic blueprints for icehouse | 21:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints for icehouse (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:18 | |
| eglynn | we agreed last week to aim for today for BPs to be filed | 21:18 |
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| eglynn | I've made progress but I'm not thru all mine quite yet | 21:18 |
| eglynn | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/icehouse | 21:19 |
| eglynn | also nprivalova has started on a rough aggregation & roll up BP | 21:19 |
| eglynn | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+spec/aggregation-and-rolling-up | 21:19 |
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| eglynn | (with some discussion still on-going in the corresponding etherpad) | 21:20 |
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| ildikov | I also have a BP, which I'll finish till the end of this week | 21:20 |
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| eglynn | just going to say, ildikov is working on locking down the new API query filtering defintion | 21:20 |
| eglynn | ... and she beat me to to it :) | 21:20 |
| ildikov | also with some etherpad discussion | 21:20 |
| eglynn | ildikov: cool, thanks for that! | 21:21 |
| eglynn | for everyone else with an idea discussed at summit that they want to target for icehouse ... | 21:21 |
| eglynn | prolly a good idea to try to get something some rough written down in a BP sooner rather than later | 21:21 |
| eglynn | before the memory of hong kong fades too much into the mists of beer ... | 21:22 |
| eglynn | sorry, the mists of time ;) | 21:22 |
| nealph | the mists of jet lag. | 21:22 |
| lsmola_ | hehe | 21:22 |
| eglynn | LOL :) | 21:22 |
| ildikov | :D | 21:23 |
| eglynn | once BPs all filed, I'd expect jd__ will do a first approval pass | 21:23 |
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| eglynn | then we'll have to start thinking about target'ing to i2 or i3 | 21:23 |
| eglynn | we were heavily back-loaded on h3 in the last cycle | 21:24 |
| eglynn | ... mostly down to me ;) | 21:24 |
| eglynn | so would be good to have a real chunky i2 milestone this time round | 21:24 |
| eglynn | anything else on BPs? | 21:24 |
| eglynn | k, moving on ... | 21:25 |
| eglynn | #topic tempest / integration tests discussion | 21:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "tempest / integration tests discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:25 | |
| eglynn | just following up on last week's discussion | 21:25 |
| eglynn | I put some initial thoughts in that etherpad started by nprivalova | 21:25 |
| eglynn | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-test-plan | 21:25 |
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| eglynn | would be great if folks who are interested in contributing to integration testing ... | 21:26 |
| eglynn | could stick in a brief description of the areas they're planning to concentrate on | 21:26 |
| eglynn | just real rough ideas would be fine | 21:26 |
| eglynn | doesn't need to be poetry ;) | 21:26 |
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| eglynn | just so long as we don't end up duplicating efforts | 21:27 |
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| eglynn | anyone got anything on tempest they want to raise? | 21:29 |
| gordc | i'll just ask since i can't see tempest branch | 21:30 |
| eglynn | gordc: which tempest branch? | 21:30 |
| gordc | not branch... code i guess... is there a specific folder in tempest which ceilometer tests sits on? just curious so i know what to track in tempest. | 21:30 |
| * gordc haven't touched tempest in a very long time. | 21:31 | |
| eglynn | gordc: so there's nothing landed in tempest yet AFAIK, but there were some reviews outstanding | 21:31 |
| * eglynn doesn't have the links to hand ... | 21:31 | |
| gordc | ok, i'll dig around. i'll need to look at code eventually anyways. | 21:32 |
| dperaza | I have another question | 21:32 |
| eglynn | #link https://review.openstack.org/43481 | 21:32 |
| eglynn | #link https://review.openstack.org/39237 | 21:32 |
| gordc | eglynn: cool cool. thanks. | 21:32 |
| eglynn | dperaza: shoot | 21:32 |
| dperaza | are there any plans to run performance specific tests with ceilometer | 21:32 |
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| nealph | I think this has been raised before... | 21:33 |
| dperaza | I was just looking at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-summit-ceilometer-big-data | 21:33 |
| nealph | the variations between env are waaay too many. | 21:33 |
| litong | @dperaza, I was planning to run some test before the summit, then I was pulled to other things. | 21:33 |
| dperaza | did not see tempest action items | 21:33 |
| eglynn | dperaza: this will generally happen as part of downstream QE I think | 21:33 |
| litong | @dperaze, I think I can do some of these next few weeks. | 21:33 |
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| eglynn | dperaza: tempest is more suited to a binary gate as opposed to shades-of-grey performance testsuite | 21:34 |
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| eglynn | (IIUC) | 21:34 |
| dperaza | litong is that something that could potentially live in tempest | 21:34 |
| dperaza | or are you thinking another home | 21:34 |
| litong | @dperaza, I think that is different, | 21:34 |
| litong | you were asking performance tests. | 21:34 |
| dperaza | right | 21:35 |
| dperaza | I do see https://github.com/openstack/tempest/tree/master/tempest/stress | 21:35 |
| ildikov | if I remeber well, in HK we discussed to separate it from tempest, I mean the performance tests | 21:35 |
| litong | it should, because they serve different purposes. | 21:35 |
| dperaza | right if we come up with performance buckets where would they live | 21:35 |
| dperaza | are we saying performance would not vote at the gate then | 21:36 |
| gordc | ildikov: right. performance tests wouldn't work with jenkins... it's performance fluctuates way too much. | 21:36 |
| dperaza | at least initially? | 21:36 |
| nealph | dperaza:ildikov:can you help me understand the goal for performance testing | 21:36 |
| nealph | ? | 21:36 |
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| eglynn | so tempest seems to support an @stresstest decorator | 21:37 |
| eglynn | #link https://github.com/openstack/tempest/commit/31fe4838 | 21:37 |
| dperaza | first establish a benchmark and then use as a reference to see how you are improving or regressing | 21:37 |
| eglynn | but that seems to be just a discovery mechanism | 21:37 |
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| ildikov | nealph: in my opinion performance test helps to understand the behavior of the system under different load | 21:38 |
| dperaza | interesting eglynn | 21:38 |
| eglynn | dperaza: I don't think we could realistically gate on such performance tests | 21:38 |
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| dperaza | we can start by stressing a single ceilometer node | 21:38 |
| eglynn | e.g. reject a patch that slowed things down by some threshold | 21:38 |
| dperaza | and see where it brakes | 21:38 |
| litong | @eglynn, agreed. | 21:38 |
| eglynn | too much variability in the load on the jenkins slaves | 21:39 |
| litong | we can run these performance test aside to help find performance problems, then open bugs and fix them. | 21:39 |
| eglynn | that's not to say performance testing isn't good | 21:39 |
| eglynn | just that we can't gate on it IMO | 21:39 |
| eglynn | so tempest is necessarily the correct home for such tests | 21:39 |
| eglynn | *isn't | 21:39 |
| * nealph nods | 21:39 | |
| dperaza | I do think we can have as a non voting jobin jenkins | 21:39 |
| dperaza | that runs daily for example as opposed to on every commit for gatting porposes | 21:40 |
| gordc | dperaza: given how instable jenkins is, i'm guessing you'll get a lot of false positives... or a really bad starting baseline. | 21:40 |
| eglynn | dperaza: sure, something like the bitrot periodic jobs that run on stable | 21:40 |
| DanD | In the testing related session at the summit, didn't someone say there were plans for seperate performance testing systems? | 21:41 |
| eglynn | dperaza: but again it would be purely advisory | 21:41 |
| eglynn | dperaza: (i.e a hint to get in and start profiling recent changes ...) | 21:41 |
| dperaza | DanD: that will work too | 21:41 |
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| eglynn | DanD: I don't recall hearing that, can you remember the session title? | 21:42 |
| gordc | DanD: that'd be interesting. | 21:42 |
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| dperaza | eglynn: right something to at least tell you the changes that degraded the performance in a period of a few days | 21:42 |
| DanD | will have to go back and look at the sessions, but there was one focused on testing. and I thought someone from the test group had said essentialy that performance tests would not work at part of the gate tests but that they were working on someone seperate for this | 21:43 |
| eglynn | dperaza: k, in principle it would be good stuff but (a) probably best separated off from Tempest and (b) simple integration tests are our first priority now | 21:44 |
| litong | @DanD, @eglynn, I think that the problem is that performance tests normally take long time and we do not want gating job takes long time. | 21:44 |
| ildikov | DanD: I meant this discussion, when I mentioned the separation thing, it was on one of the last sessions I think | 21:44 |
| dperaza | Performance testing ussually is done also on release or milestone boundries | 21:44 |
| litong | I hope that gating job returns in few seconds. | 21:44 |
| eglynn | (seeing as that's where we have the most pressing/basic gap in our coverage) | 21:44 |
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| eglynn | litong: agreed | 21:45 |
| dperaza | I think I got the answer to my question, thanks guys | 21:45 |
| gordc | litong: we've been waiting 24hrs+ for some of our patches... a few seconds is a dream. lol | 21:45 |
| litong | @gordc, yeah, my dream. | 21:46 |
| litong | the point is that we do not include the performance test in gating jobs | 21:46 |
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| gordc | litong: :) | 21:46 |
| eglynn | litong: yes, we're ad idem on that point | 21:46 |
| eglynn | k, moving on ... | 21:46 |
| eglynn | #topic release python-ceilometerclient | 21:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "release python-ceilometerclient (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:47 | |
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| eglynn | I've got a couple of bug fixes in progress | 21:47 |
| eglynn | most importantly https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-ceilometerclient/+bug/1253057 | 21:47 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1253057 in python-ceilometerclient "alarm update resets repeat_actions attribute, breaking heat autoscaling" [High,In progress] | 21:47 |
| eglynn | once these land, I'd like to cut a 1.0.7 release | 21:47 |
| eglynn | anyone got anything else that they'd like to get in before I cut that? | 21:48 |
| eglynn | herndon_: you mentioned some events support in the client? | 21:48 |
| eglynn | herndon_: note that client releases are cheap and easy | 21:48 |
| * gordc keeps forgetting to look at python-ceilometerclient stream... will take a look. | 21:48 | |
| herndon_ | let's skip this one | 21:48 |
| herndon_ | that part still has a couple of holes to patch up before it is reay | 21:48 |
| eglynn | herndon_: cool, we can easily spin up a 1.0.8 whenever you're good to go with that | 21:49 |
| herndon_ | ok, I will keep you posted | 21:49 |
| eglynn | gordc: if you're in a reviewing mood ... https://review.openstack.org/57423 | 21:49 |
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| gordc | eglynn: will try to give it a look later tonight. | 21:50 |
| eglynn | gordc: thank you sir! | 21:50 |
| eglynn | k, we're done on the client methinks ... | 21:50 |
| eglynn | #topic open discussion | 21:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:50 | |
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| gordc | i guess i can ask abour resource stuff here. | 21:51 |
| eglynn | gordc: sorry forgot that | 21:51 |
| gordc | np. :) | 21:52 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 21:52 |
| eglynn | #topic what's a resource? | 21:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "what's a resource? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:52 | |
| gordc | in Samples, user and project attributes are pretty self-explanatory and map to keystone concepts pretty well but what about resource_id... | 21:52 |
| eglynn | gordc: the floor is your's! | 21:52 |
| gordc | i was reviewing https://review.openstack.org/#/c/56019 and it seems like we don't really have a consistent use for resource_id... | 21:52 |
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| gordc | or i may have missed the concept as usual :) | 21:53 |
| eglynn | gordc: yeah so I think the original assumption was that every resource would have a UUID associated with it | 21:53 |
| eglynn | gordc: i.e. the pattern followed by nova, glance, cinder etc. | 21:53 |
| eglynn | gordc: but obviously swift doesn't fit into that neat pattern, right? | 21:54 |
| notmyname | ? | 21:54 |
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| gordc | eglynn: right... there are a way meters were resource_id kind of deviates. | 21:54 |
| eglynn | notmyname: context is using the container name as the resource ID for swift metering, IIUC | 21:54 |
| eglynn | notmyname: see comments on https://review.openstack.org/56019 | 21:55 |
| eglynn | gordc: is the issue one of uniqueness? | 21:55 |
| dragondm | o/ (blast dst :P ) | 21:55 |
| eglynn | gordc: i.e. that the container name isn't guaranteed unique, or? | 21:56 |
| dolphm | (out of scope) why is ceilometer tracking individual resource id's? that seems unnecessarily granular at first glance | 21:56 |
| gordc | eglynn: i guess... or maybe just checking that it isn't written somewhere that resource_id in Sample must be <this> | 21:56 |
| eglynn | dolphm: we want to be able to query grouped by resource | 21:56 |
| sandywalsh | dolphm, for samples it may not be required, but for events we get a lot of use from per-resource tracking | 21:57 |
| eglynn | gordc: e.g. must be a stringified UUID? | 21:57 |
| eglynn | gordc: I don't think that's a requirement, more just the convention that most services follow | 21:57 |
| notmyname | eglynn: I'm not sure I follow. | 21:57 |
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| eglynn | notmyname: ceilometer samples include a resource ID that's generally a UUID, whereas a patch for swift metering uses the container name for the samples it emits | 21:58 |
| dragondm | AFAIK, resource id just needs to be a globally unique id. | 21:58 |
| eglynn | dragondm: agreed | 21:59 |
| notmyname | eglynn: the (account, container) pair is unique in a swift cluster (eg AUTH_test/images) | 21:59 |
| dragondm | uuid works for that, so there won't be collisions. | 21:59 |
| gordc | dragondm: that's my original thought as well. | 21:59 |
| eglynn | so I think the question is whether the container name reach that bar of unqiueness | 21:59 |
| notmyname | and within the context of a single swift cluster, that pair is globally unique | 21:59 |
| eglynn | seems that (account, container) would be better from what john is saying above | 22:00 |
| dragondm | but if you have multiple regions it does not... | 22:00 |
| notmyname | multiple clusters, you mean | 22:00 |
| gordc | eglynn: something for the mailinglist? (given the time) | 22:00 |
| eglynn | gordc: yep, good call | 22:00 |
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| dragondm | notmyname: yes. | 22:00 |
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| eglynn | gordc: can you raise it on the LM? | 22:00 |
| gordc | i'll do that. | 22:01 |
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| eglynn | #action gordc raise resource ID uniqueness question on ML | 22:01 |
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| notmyname | dragondm: if ceilometer is metering multiple clusters, then it must have some sort of cluster identifier. seems pretty easy to construct a unique resource_id from that | 22:01 |
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| eglynn | k, I think we're over time here | 22:01 |
| eglynn | let's drop the open discussoin | 22:01 |
| sandywalsh | sorry for the late arrival (DST) ... re: integration testing, we've started working on storage driver load testing https://github.com/rackerlabs/ceilometer-load-tests (with a CM fork for test branches) | 22:01 |
| eglynn | sandywalsh: cool! | 22:02 |
| dperaza | dperaza: :-( | 22:02 |
| dragondm | Yup. we are also looking at testing an experimental Riak driver. | 22:02 |
| dperaza | I gues I could bring up in next meeting | 22:02 |
| eglynn | yep, let's defer to next meeting on the ML as we're over time | 22:02 |
| dragondm | Cool. | 22:03 |
| eglynn | k, thanks for your time folks! | 22:03 |
| eglynn | #endmeeting | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Nov 20 22:03:29 2013 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-11-20-21.00.html | 22:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-11-20-21.00.txt | 22:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2013/ceilometer.2013-11-20-21.00.log.html | 22:03 |
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| lsmola_ | thank you, goodbye | 22:03 |
| ildikov | thanks, bye | 22:04 |
| terriyu | thanks everyone | 22:04 |
| sandywalsh | o/ | 22:04 |
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| ujuc | HI ~ | 23:57 |
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| Daisy | HI, ujuc | 23:57 |
| ujuc | :) | 23:57 |
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| Daisy | Good morning | 23:57 |
| Daisy | Hi, macjack. Good morning! | 23:57 |
| Daisy | We will start the meeting in 2 minutes. | 23:58 |
| macjack | Good morning Daisy | 23:58 |
| zero00072 | Good morning! | 23:59 |
| macjack | Good morning zero00072 | 23:59 |
| zero00072 | :) | 23:59 |
| ujuc | :) | 23:59 |
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