Thursday, 2013-11-21

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DaisyLet's start.00:00
Daisy#startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting00:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 21 00:00:34 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.00:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'00:00
DaisyGood morning/evening, everyone.00:00
DaisyWelcome to I18n meeting.00:01
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DaisyWe have ujuc, macjack, and zero00072.00:01
macjackGood morning everyone00:01
ujucHi :)00:01
DaisyDo we have anybody else ?00:01
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DaisyOK, people may join us in the meeting.00:02
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Daisy#topic Horizon translation update00:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Horizon translation update (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:02
DaisyThe first stable Havana update (2013.2.1) is plalned in early Dec. Julie and Akihiro suggested to include Horizon improved translation.00:02
amotokihi, i need to leave soon but can join for a while.00:02
DaisyGreat, amotoki!00:03
DaisyWe need you in the early part.00:03
DaisyI agree with Julie and Akihiro.00:03
DaisySo let's set a deadline and if any languages team have translation update, please send email to mailing list and Akihiro will help to update.00:03
Daisyamotoki: do you know the exact date of Havana (2013.2.1)?00:04
ujucOK :)00:04
amotokii haven't checked the detail date. perhaps we can check stable-maint list to knwo it.00:04
Daisyamotoki: do you have any suggestions to the deadline of translation update?00:04
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Daisyamotoki: can you help to check the exact date?00:04
amotokii think importing will be done just before freeze.00:05
amotokiDaisy: yeah.00:05
DaisyThanks. amotoki.00:05
DaisyAnother question for you, amotoki.00:05
DaisyIs the translation verification test website still runnable or not ?00:05
amotokiit is still running but automated import is stopped now.00:06
amotokii usually use it for demo :-)00:06
Daisyare you going to start the automation import ?00:06
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amotokican resume it if needed00:06
Daisyok. Thanks.00:07
Daisy#action amotoki to check the exact freeze date of Havana (2013.2.1) and suggest the last deadline to the mailing list.00:07
amotokii have a question about transifex resource: horizon vs horizon_havana.00:07
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DaisyYes, i'm going to address this issue now.00:07
DaisyWe have finished Havana translation. And Horzion is moving to Icehouse. I will prefer to copy the existing resources to Icehouse version, and rename the existing resource with a Havana suffix. Then we will keep both Havana and Icehouse version in Transifex, with different suffix.00:08
DaisyHow do you think, amotoki ?00:08
amotokisounds nice.00:08
DaisyGreat. so I will do it after the meeting.00:08
Daisy#action Daisy to rename exisiting resources in Horizon with a Havana suffix.00:09
amotokias julie said, some string updates are under review. I will update POT file to transifex (havana) directly00:09
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DaisyNice, amotoki.00:09
DaisyWhen you are done, don't forget to send a mail to ML.00:10
Daisyanything do you want to talk in the first topic: Horizon stable release?00:10
DaisyIf no, we will move to next topic.00:10
amotokinothing from me.00:10
Daisy#topic I18n team structure discussion00:11
*** openstack changes topic to "I18n team structure discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:11
DaisyThe mission of our team, as written in wiki, is00:11
Daisyto make OpenStack ubiquitously accessible to people of all language backgrounds, by providing a framework to create high quality translations, recruiting contributors and actively managing and planning the translation process.00:11
DaisyThe explaination in "by providing..." is much focus on translation. But I18n is more than translation.00:11
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DaisyRefer to to get the explaination of I18n and L10n.00:12
DaisyIn my mind, I18n team will cover more than translation, for example, in design summit, we proposed two blue prints:00:12
DaisyThey are code refactors, but they are much related with I18n and L10n.00:12
amotokisorry for interrupt.00:12
amotokii need to leave now. i would like to know what and how i should do for ja doc index page (one of action items). let me know after the meeting.00:12
DaisyOK. I will send you email. Bye.00:13
DaisyBy studying the I18n teams of other open source communities, I think, we can rename our translation team to Localization team. Localization team will reponsible for openstack localization, including the translation.00:13
ujucbye :)00:13
DaisyTwo examples: and
DaisyAny comments, till now?00:14
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DaisyThen we will have I18n core team and L10n sub-teams.00:15
DaisyI18n core team will include the leaders (or the coordinators) in L10n sub-teams and developers who would like to contribute to OpenStack I18n features.00:15
zero00072I think it is right.00:15
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DaisyThanks, zero0007200:15
DaisyL10n team includes leaders (or coordinators), translators, developers who would like to localize openstack, and even testers.00:15
ujuccrate new loco tem?00:15
DaisyNot new, I think. Just rename the translation team to loco team.00:15
ujucOk :)00:16
macjackgood idea, Daisy00:16
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laserjetyangbut it is not only translation, and also need to approach different component to make sure they are enabled with globalization?00:16
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DaisyNow most members in L10n team are translators. That's OK. We can give time for the team to grow.00:16
DaisyYes, laserjetyang.00:17
DaisyNot only translation.00:17
zero00072Doing translation is something l10n team's work.00:17
zero00072I have seem KDE i18n project renamed to l10n project in Debian.00:17
DaisyAnyway, it's my proposal.00:17
DaisyI think, we need broad discussion in the mailing list, not only i18n mailing list but also dev mailing list to see people's opinions.00:18
DaisyIf we only do translation, that's much easier.00:18
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DaisyIf we want to do code refactor, we need support of dev mailing list.00:18
laserjetyangbut with the push from i18n point of view, it shoud be easier to make it happen00:19
DaisyI'd like to understand how much Python knowledges do you have and if you would like to contribute code. Just a small survey.00:19
DaisyIf we say: we want to do code refactor, surely we need people who can do this job.00:20
Daisyujuc: can you write python program?00:20
Daisyhow about you, macjack and zero00072?00:20
ujuclitle :)00:20
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DaisyGood, ujuc.00:20
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zero00072I love Ruby than Python. Haha00:21
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Daisy:)). They are similar, zero00072.00:21
zero00072Anyway, some Python Code I can read and write.00:21
DaisyNice, zero00072.00:21
macjackDaisy python is awesom but did do that for a whilw00:22
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DaisyI believe, we will have very simple development jobs in I18n areas.00:22
DaisyAt that time, we can have a try.00:22
macjackDaisy: used to try to deep dive into Django code ever00:22
DaisyThanks, macjack. Very good.00:23
DaisyI know a little Python too, I can write simple program. My background is in Java.00:23
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Daisyok. So I will move this discussion to the mailing list.00:23
Daisy#topic Blueprints & bugs tracking00:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints & bugs tracking (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:24
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DaisyWe can use Launchpad to track the bugs and blueprints.00:24
DaisyMy question is what to track?00:24
fifieldt(sorry I'm late)00:24
DaisyWelcome, fifieldt.00:24
DaisyAs to the bug, we can track our translation errors reported by users.00:25
DaisyAnything else can we track in Launchpad openstack-i18n?00:25
macjackgreat to see you fifieldt :)00:26
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zero00072So, we need to add a button to Horizon so that any one can reatch the tracking system?00:26
DaisyMost of code errors in I18n areas are tracking in their own project in Launchpad.00:26
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Daisyzero00072, I wonder if Horizon team agree. I suggest you to discuss with Akihiro Motoki and Julie Pichon.00:27
DaisyAt least, we need a place to allow our users to report errors to us.00:28
DaisyWe can write the link in our wiki.00:28
DaisyBut what do we want to track in blueprints?00:28
DaisyI have no idea now.00:28
ujucOk :)00:28
laserjetyangwhy not?00:29
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Daisylaserjetyang, what do you mean?00:29
laserjetyangI mean, why not track in blueprints?00:29
Daisywhat should we track, I mean?00:29
DaisyYes, you are right, laserjetyang.00:30
laserjetyangit should be similar to bug, to me most of the blueprints are to solve bugs00:30
fifieldtI guess that most of our 'blueprint'-style things are about changes in the infrastructure ...00:30
DaisyWe can track our improvements in the translation platform, like the staging server for translate documents.00:30
DaisyRight, fifieldt00:30
DaisyThat's the problem.00:30
fifieldtso the question is whether we track it in openstack-ci00:30
fifieldtor in openstack-i18n00:30
laserjetyangok, get your point00:31
fifieldtgiven we need review assistance from #openstack-infra00:31
fifieldtshould we ask their preference?00:31
Daisygood idea, fifieldt.00:31
DaisyLet me do it.00:31
DaisyI guess they would like to track in openstack-ci.00:31
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DaisyI don't know. Let me try.00:32
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fifieldtwe could also create blueprints in both places00:32
fifieldtsince they are different audiences00:32
Daisy#action Daisy to ask openstack-ci whether they would like to track I18n blueprints in openstack-i18n.00:32
fifieldti18n people could request features by making the blueprints in openstack-i18n00:32
fifieldtand then blueprints in openstack-ci could be created00:33
* fifieldt shrugs00:33
DaisyThen we bypass them to different projects?00:33
Daisythen we pass them to different projects.00:33
fifieldtwe also have a 3rd option00:33
fifieldtwe could be testers of the new "Storyboard" tool00:33
fifieldtwhich will replace launchpad00:33
fifieldtfor OpenStack00:33
fifieldtin the future00:33
Daisywe could. what's the benifit?00:34
fifieldtbetter interface00:34
fifieldteasier to use00:34
fifieldtwe could help drive the development & adoption00:34
Daisydo they call for tester now?00:34
fifieldtthey have asked for "guinea pigs"00:34
fifieldtso far UX team has consented to join00:35
DaisyThen we could.00:35
fifieldtbut the software is still in early stage development00:35
macjackStoryboard sounds interesting!!00:35
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DaisyI18n team need to take a look and then make decision.00:35
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fifieldt is the code so far00:36
Daisywhere is the live website?00:36
fifieldtit is still being turned on, I think00:36
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DaisyThen we take a look at first, try it, and then we make decision.00:37
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laserjetyangit is still poc?00:37
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Daisywe move to next topic.00:38
Daisy#topic Reorganize wiki page00:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Reorganize wiki page (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:38
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DaisyWe need to improve our wiki page, to make it better organized.00:39
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DaisyI want to clearly list I18n team and L10n teams, and localize L10n team.00:39
DaisyLocalize the page of L10n teams.00:39
DaisyFor example, we will have native language page for Taiwan L10n team.00:40
DaisyAnd we provide a link to it in the main page of I18n team.00:40
DaisyAny comments?00:40
zero00072It's right, a native language page.00:41
macjackDaisy great! great!00:41
Daisythanks, zero00072 and macjack.00:41
DaisyClearly guide people how to join and how to contribute, that's our goal.00:42
DaisyWho would like to take this job?00:42
DaisyWho want to work together with me to rre-organize our wiki pages?00:42
macjacko/ me me, I can do that00:43
DaisyGreat, macjack.00:43
macjackpick it up00:43
zero00072I also can.00:43
Daisy#action macjack, zero00072, and Daisy to re-organize the wiki page.00:43
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Daisymacjack and zero00072, you can create a new wiki page to make the draft, then people can give suggestions. The current wiki page won't be affected.00:44
DaisyThank you.00:44
laserjetyangin language other than english?00:44
Daisyyes, we provide local language page for L10n teams.00:45
Daisyok, move to next00:45
Daisy#topic Plans in Icehouse cycle00:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Plans in Icehouse cycle (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:45
macjackDaisy: glad to do so00:45
DaisyWe need to make a plan for what we want to do in Icehouse.00:46
Daisyfirstly, document translation.00:46
DaisyAgain, operation guide translation.00:46
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ujucoperation guid version folsom? or havana?00:47
DaisyGood question.00:47
DaisyI think, they only have folsom, right?00:47
DaisyDoes operation guide have havana version?00:47
Daisyujuc, you don't like it?00:47
DaisyAnne Gentle told me this year: operation guide is the top priority00:48
ujucnoting :)00:48
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Daisyoperation guide is a stable document.00:48
ujucok :)00:48
DaisyNot much changes at all.00:48
fifieldtfor now00:49
fifieldtso, there is plan to make a havana version00:49
Daisyfifieldt: will there be many changes?00:49
laserjetyangthere are many new components since Folsom00:50
laserjetyangI think there should be new changes00:50
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fifieldtwe don't know yet Daisy00:50
DaisyBased on icehouse release schedule:
fifieldtit's going to take some effort event to say what needs to be updated00:50
zero00072Which team build the guide documents?00:51
DaisyString frozen is March 6th.00:51
DaisyI think we need to start the message translation one month before March 6th, in order to catch the release date.00:51
DaisySo before Feb 6th, we can do document translation.00:52
DaisyWe can have 1 document translated from now to Feb 6th.00:52
ujucOK :))00:52
zero00072I think we need a dictionary site to save words and compare the words before we can translate the documents.00:53
Daisyzero00072: it's doc team, I think.00:53
DaisyYes, we definitely need one.00:53
DaisyTransifex has a place to save glossary.00:53
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DaisyWe have imported openstack glossary into Transifex.00:54
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DaisyBesides glossary, we also need to summarize many common words too.00:54
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DaisyI believe there are some tools which can do the terminologies extraction.00:54
Daisyzero00072: can you take a look at the terminology extraction tool and try it ?00:55
DaisyWe can use the tool to extract common words, and then we translate them at first.00:55
zero00072OK, I will take a try.00:55
DaisyThanks, zero00072.00:55
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Daisy#action zero00072 to take a look at term extract tool.00:56
Daisy#action Daisy to work with Anne Gentle to check which document is better to start translation.00:56
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DaisyOK. I have done what I want to talk.00:56
DaisyMove to next topic00:57
Daisy#topic Open discussion00:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:57
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DaisyAnything you want to talk ?00:57
ujucMe, No~~o :)00:58
zero00072I have no any disscussions.00:58
DaisyWe are just in time.00:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"00:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 21 00:59:02 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)00:59
openstackMinutes (text):
DaisyThank you all for attending.00:59
DaisyWe have discussed so many things.00:59
ujucThanks :)00:59
macjackThanks everyone00:59
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dosaboydhellman: ping10:17
dosaboyoops wrong channel10:17
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enikanorovneutron lbaas subteam meeting in 2 minutes13:58
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enikanorov#startmeeting Neutron LBaaS14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 21 14:00:45 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is enikanorov. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
evgenyfHi All14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Neutron LBaaS)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas'14:00
enikanorovok, lets start with announcements14:01
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enikanorov#topic announcements14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: Neutron LBaaS)"14:01
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enikanorovon latest neutron team meeting the following project plan was proposed:14:02
enikanorovyou can see that action items for our subteam go under #814:02
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enikanorovbut for the core team the first 5 items are prioritized14:03
Vijay_"    A single VIP can have services running on different TCP ports backed by different pools." is this for L7 policy support14:04
enikanorovothers are mostly new features and are pushed to I2 and I3 milestones14:04
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samuelbercoviciVijay_, no14:05
enikanorovVijay_: not exactly, but it doesn't matter in this list since it is very brief and only emphasize that new lbaas features will not be on top of the core team's list for another 2 milestones at least14:05
s3wongenikanorov: so the three items on the list for LBaaS are for icehouse-1?14:06
enikanorovso actually any major feature published on gerrit will get -2 until issues with stability and test coverage of neutron are resolved14:06
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enikanorovs3wong: no, realistically speaking, they are for I-314:06
enikanorovso I'd like to set correct expectations here14:06
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enikanorovwe have plenty of time to discuss, design and implement the features14:07
enikanorovand it would be great if we could participate in ongoing qa/testing effort14:08
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enikanorovany questions on project plan?14:08
Vijay_will there be enough time for driver changes to get in after the LBaaS plugin changes?14:08
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samuelbercoviciI think this is ok, as realisticaly, SSL, L7Policy and loadbalanciner features would need some time to cook.14:08
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samuelbercoviciVijay_, what do you mean "LBaaS plugin changes"?14:09
enikanorovVijay_: i can't predict. But that will totally be the matter of good efforts on test coverage14:09
enikanorovthe better test we'll have, more confidence our code will make in core reviewers14:09
iwamotoon, BP lbaas-service-instance depends on BP lbaas-multiple-vips-per-pool. is this correct?14:10
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enikanorovno, actually i was going to swap the order14:10
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enikanorovsince i realized that doing it in opposite order would be simpler and require less changes14:10
enikanorovso anyway14:11
iwamotowill lbaas-service-instance be on I-2?14:11
Vijay_Samuel: By LBaaS plugin changes: I meant the feature changes that will be checked in as part of LBaaS plugin.14:12
enikanoroviwamoto: I hope so, anyway i'm going to publish the implementation on gerrit in I-114:12
enikanorovif it gets merged in I-2 it would be greate14:12
samuelbercoviciVijay_, ok, thanks.14:12
iwamotoi see14:12
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enikanorovI suggest we all work on our features, publish the code and try to collaborate (by, say, rebasing our patches on one another, if they are dependent)14:13
enikanorovbut any suggestions/ideas/help on qa front will be appreciated14:13
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enikanorovok, lets move to the next topic14:14
enikanorov#topic QA and third party testing14:14
*** openstack changes topic to "QA and third party testing (Meeting topic: Neutron LBaaS)"14:14
enikanorovobondarev is working on tempest scenario tests for lbaas14:14
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enikanorovobondarev: would you like to give an update?14:14
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samuelbercovicienikanorov: i expect that his tests will be used by all lbaas driver, correct?14:16
obondarevsorry for the delay14:16
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enikanorovsamuelbercovici: correct14:16
obondarevso work in progress yet14:16
samuelbercoviciis there a bp for this?14:16
obondarevneed to finish the basic scenario test14:16
enikanorovsamuelbercovici: but that doesn't mean you should not have your driver-specific tests! :)14:16
obondarevthen can think on some more scenarios14:17
samuelbercoviciwe will, but i think that the shared tests should cover as much as possible.14:18
enikanorovyeah, i think some kind of simple testplan would be helpfull.14:18
enikanorovsamuelbercovici: right14:18
enikanorovnext week i'm going to dive into tempest as well14:18
enikanorovsamuelbercovici: any progress with setting up third-party testing in your lab?14:19
samuelbercovicialso, what we had in the current tests, it that the test scenario is exactly the same but the resultin checks are different for each driver14:19
samuelbercovicithis resulted that we had to copy all test and modify14:19
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samuelbercovicithis also means that if something is modified in the test, it needs to be copied to all drivers14:20
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obondarevsamuelbercovici: which tests do you mean as current?14:20
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samuelbercoviciit would be nice if we can find a way to reuse the work of oleg without copy14:20
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samuelbercovicii mean the unit tests14:20
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obondarevthis is a bit different topic I guess14:21
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obondarevas we're now discussing tempest tests14:21
enikanorovsamuelbercovici: so what's with integrating with smokestack?14:22
avishaybAbout the temest - we are currently try to see what it takes. hope to have somethin until Icehouse 114:22
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samuelbercoviciobondarev: i understnad. just wishing the wokr you do will be reusable, not like the ut.14:22
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obondarevsamuelbercovici: yeah14:22
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enikanorovthe uts are really different because the way driver communicase requires different mocks at least14:23
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samuelbercoviciok. i think that after you commit ur 1st code we can discuss further14:24
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enikanorovin fact tempest already have API tests for lbaas14:25
enikanorovwhich in fact test basic operations14:25
enikanorovit's enough to test how integration with smoke stack could work14:25
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avishaybOK - I will look at it soon14:26
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enikanorovany questions on testing?14:26
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enikanorovok, lets move on14:28
enikanorov#topic feature discussion14:28
*** openstack changes topic to "feature discussion (Meeting topic: Neutron LBaaS)"14:28
enikanorov#topic features discussion14:28
*** openstack changes topic to "features discussion (Meeting topic: Neutron LBaaS)"14:28
enikanorovI'll start with loadbalancer instance14:28
enikanorovwe had discussion with samuelbercovici14:28
enikanorovI also got some opinions from tempest folks14:28
enikanorovwhos tests i was going to break with this :)14:29
enikanorovso the common opinion is to preserve API compatibility, so scenarios for the previos API would work14:29
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enikanorovi think it's achievable by allowing user/client to start creating configuration from the pool14:30
enikanorovas it is right now14:30
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enikanorovso the instance will be created for the pool automatically14:30
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enikanorovthat's the general plan14:31
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Vijay_ok, for each pool that is created without the loadbalancerinstance id, a loadbalance instance will be created?14:31
enikanorovVijay_: correct14:31
s3wongenikanorov: so in this case, the haproxy instance will be launched when a pool is created?14:32
obondarevbut multiple vips per pool will change things, right?14:32
enikanorovs3wong: no, for haproxy it will also remain as it is today14:32
enikanorovhaproxy is pawned when vip is attached to the pool14:32
enikanorovobondarev: multiple vips/pools could be just attached to existing instance14:32
enikanorovif vip is concerned then you either attach it to the pool or to the instance14:33
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enikanorovif you attach it to the pool, instance id is deduced from the pool14:33
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obondarevok, got it14:34
Vijay_if poolid is globally unique and if it is not per loadbalancer then it should be fine.14:34
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enikanorovVijay_: right14:35
enikanorovsamuelbercovici: do you have questions on loadbalancer instance?14:35
Vijay_what is the plan for rest of the entities?14:35
iwamotoI think API spec should be written and reviewed14:35
Vijay_new entities like l7 policy and l7rule14:36
samuelbercovicienikanorov: i would have prefered what we discussed together. anyway, when do u plan to modify your wiki, i will then give it further thought14:36
enikanoroviwamoto: I have wiki page on this feature, i'll add API there14:36
Vijay_should that also be tied to loadbalancer instance14:36
enikanorovVijay_: let's discuss it next14:36
enikanorovsamuelbercovici: ok14:36
avishaybI have published a wiki page on l7 switching (WIP)14:37
enikanorovI have general concern on L7 feature:14:38
avishaybgot some feedback from Vijay14:38
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enikanorovit's implementation depends on multiple pool per vipm which in turn depend on the instance14:39
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enikanorovso my question would be how are you planning to go with implementation?14:39
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avishaybI do not think it depends on the other tasks you mentioned.14:40
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enikanorovok, but how do you plan to test it?14:40
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enikanorovif multiple pools are not there14:41
avishaybI will add more details to the wiki page and than it may be clear why it is a standalone feature14:41
enikanorovok, good14:41
Vijay_when will it be sent to the driver? Is it taking the monitoring approach?14:41
avishaybcan you please elaborate about "how do you plan to test it?"14:41
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enikanorovi mean it seems that in order to do end-to-end testing you need to get actual schema with m:n vip-pool relation ship14:42
enikanorovwhich is a complex change14:42
avishaybgood point. I will address it on the wiki page14:42
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avishaybVijay_ - same for you.. I will address it in the wiki :-)14:43
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enikanorovok, any updates on SSL termination feature?14:44
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Vijay_we need to reach concensus on certificates14:44
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evgenyfMy WIKI page ( was updated with Vijey's points.14:45
evgenyfDilema about entities hierarchy is still open14:45
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Vijay_as i said in the mailing list, would prefer to have certificate created as a seprate resource with VIP  parameter14:46
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enikanorovVijay_: how are you going to use it if it doesn't contain certificate itself?14:46
Vijay_it will contain key, certificate and certificate chain along with the vip parameter14:47
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enikanorovso you're proposing to store certificate in the DB?14:47
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Vijay_since the vip parameter is available we should be able to find the driver associated with it and send it to the correct driver14:47
Vijay_so this is the flow14:48
Vijay_create vip, create certificate (with vip).14:48
enikanorovok, certificate data is stored where?14:48
Vijay_in the device14:49
Vijay_the key will be transient14:49
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enikanorovhow to reuse the certificate resource then?14:49
Vijay_it wont be available for reuse14:49
enikanorovwhat's the point of having it as separate resource then?14:50
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samuelbercoviciin both aproache (embedding in the VIP or creating certificate associate with a VIP), the difference is the workflow the effect is the same14:50
Vijay_Sam: right, the model is easier to migrate to future14:50
enikanorovwhat are planned changes to this model?14:51
samuelbercovicii prefere the "embedding" model as it is simple and when we get to have ke management with persistant capabilities, we can add the certificate as a 1st level citizen14:51
samuelbercovicidoing it now, might encour API changes which are not backward compatible14:51
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samuelbercoviciso doing a "simple" model now, and adding a reusable model when we can store keys would be my prefered choice14:52
Vijay_if there are VIPs with embeded certificate params, when there are certificate independent how will it be14:52
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Vijay_we might have a certificate parameter in the VIP?14:53
enikanorovi still would like to know how the model with independent certificate will evolve14:53
enikanorove.g. what would be that 'future migration'14:53
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enikanorovbecause it is the only point imo that decides the better approach here14:54
Vijay_ok. ill write the migration path in a do14:54
Vijay_and circulate14:54
Vijay_also, backend certificates need to be accomodated14:55
samuelbercovicii think, that having two models "basic" and in the future "resuable/persitant" mitigate the migration need. it is somewhat of a YAGNY14:55
enikanorovany other topics?14:56
samuelbercoviciVijay_: backed, do not need cirtificates.14:56
Vijay_how will the VIP authenticate the certificate presentd by backend if it is HTTPS service?14:57
s3wongenikanorov: is the ability to set floating IP as VIP (i.e., service insertion) part of Icehouse plan?14:57
samuelbercovicithe VIP is "simulating" a client, I think that you refer to CA for the backend14:57
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enikanorovs3wong: not exactly. I saw embrane driver tried to do that14:58
Vijay_yes the loadbalancer will act as a client and send make a seperate handshake with the backend service14:58
enikanorovi mean that i would leave it up to vendors impelmentations14:58
s3wongLVS driver has done some work there as well14:58
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Vijay_as part of the handshake the backend service is going to present a server certificate14:59
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samuelbercoviciyes, and the allowed CA, might need to be set in the backend if you want to be strict15:00
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enikanorovi think our time is up15:00
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enikanorovwe can continue on #neutron-lbaas or on ML15:01
samuelbercoviciVijay_: lest discuss offline15:01
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 21 15:01:07 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:01
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dkranzsdague: YOu here for the meeting?17:00
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dkranz#startmeeting qa17:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 21 17:01:23 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dkranz. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:01
dkranzSo who is here today?17:01
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mlavalledkranz: hi17:01
dkranzmkoderer: Here?17:02
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dkranzSory, I was in the wrong channel17:05
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dkranzA master blueprint was created for icehouse scenario tests and it has several pointers in it.17:05
dkranzSeveral people are adopting the approach of creating a spec in a zeroth patch.17:05
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dkranzAny comments about blueprints17:06
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afazekaslink ?17:07
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andreafI created a blueprint for input scenarios for scenario tests17:07
mlavalledkranz: I have 2 blueprints for icehouse… I want to make sure they are aligned with the new effort to improve Neutron testing17:07
andreafas discussed during summit17:07
andreafsorry mlavalle go ahead first17:08
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dkranzmlavalle: Are they created yet in tempest?17:08
mlavallemlavalle: dkranz: those blueprints were put together several months ago… so I want to confirm they are aligned with the new priorities17:08
dkranzmlavalle: links?17:09
mlavalledkranz: t=yes they are in Launchpad17:09
dkranzmlavalle: Do you mean this
mlavalledkranz: nope, hold on a second… I have trouble with my Launchpad account17:10
dkranzmlavalle: We are tracking the new scenarios in
dkranzmlavalle: which includes both neutron and other17:11
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dkranzmlavalle: Any good neutron scenario tests will be helpful and this blueprint should help avoid duplication.17:12
salv-orlandoDo we still need the first? I filed it before the summit, but I think it will all go under the latter17:12
mlavalledkranz: so what is here is not valid anymore:
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dkranzmlavalle: Not sure what you mean.17:12
dkranzsalv-orlando: Yes, it would be reasonable to break your blueprint into its pieces and point to from the master blueprint17:12
salv-orlandodkranz: ok will do17:13
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mlavalledkranz: well, I thought that's where blueprints were registered and prioritized… if that's not the place anymore, it's fine, I just need to know it17:13
dkranzsalv-orlando: Thanks17:13
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dkranzmlavalle: THe high priority is "more scenario tests" and is tracked through the master blueprint17:14
dkranzmlavalle: We did not want to manage a whole lot of blueprints17:14
mlavalledkranz: cool, thanks17:14
dkranzmlavalle: The new scenarios are more on a "train model" where they come in when they do17:14
dkranzmlavalle: We are not assigning individual priorities and tracking them17:15
dkranzAnything else on that?17:15
andreafdkranz: I have a blueprint which is a tool around scenarios,  to provide multiple input scenarios:
andreafdkranz: I think that's a bit different, I wouldn't add it into the list17:15
dkranzandreaf: I agree. Looks interesting.17:16
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dkranz#topic Negative testing17:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Negative testing (Meeting topic: qa)"17:16
dkranzSo Marc and I have not had time to make much progress on this since last week.17:17
dkranzWe hope to do some more next week.17:17
dkranzBTW, next week is US Thanksgiving holiday so many of us will not be around.17:17
dkranz#topic Neutron testing17:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron testing (Meeting topic: qa)"17:18
dkranzmlavalle: all yours17:18
mlavalledkranz: well, this topic is related to my previous question17:18
mlavalledkranz: sdague wrote in an emasil a few days ago that certain things needed to be finished ready for the Montreal sprint17:19
dkranzmlavalle: Yes, I think he was trying to make sure that the Montreal thing was a "wrap-up" session and not a "let's start now" thing17:20
mlavalledkranz: i am attending the Montreal sprint and want to know how can i contribute between now and January for it to be a success17:20
dkranzmlavalle: You can look at
mlavalledkarnz: ok, I'll take a look, thanks17:21
dkranzmlavalle: There is also a need for new scenario tests.17:21
sdaguehey folks, actually managed to make it late... :) (dkranz carry on, don't let me interupt your flow)17:21
dkranzmlavalle: You should probably coordinate with the neutron folks mentioned there17:22
mlavalledkranz: who should I talk to to coordinate scenario tests development?17:22
salv-orlandomlavalle: markmcclain and anteaya are coordinating efforts17:22
dkranzsdague: Welcome17:22
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salv-orlandoI am participating but I am merely an executor17:22
mlavallesalv-orlando: ok, I will talk to anteaya17:22
dkranzmlavalle: The master blueprint is the registry to avoid duplication17:22
dkranzmlavalle: Anything else?17:23
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mlavalledkranz: that's all, thanks for all the answers17:23
dkranz#topic Critical reviews17:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:24
dkranzIt would be great if some one could give a +A (or not) to
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dkranzIt is awaiting non-RH approval17:24
dkranzAny other reviews folks want to call out?17:25
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dkranzsdague: What is the gate status? Business as usual or "no +2"?17:25
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sdaguedkranz: the grenade fix just landed17:25
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dkranzsdague: Cool17:26
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sdagueso... I think it's going to take a couple of hours to figure out if that makes most of the issues go away17:26
dkranzsdague: OK, so we'll hold off for now.17:26
sdagueI'd say hold off on tempest +A until we know17:26
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sdagueas there are already 50 things in the gate, and don't want to make it worse17:26
dkranzsdague: I presume there will be another email from infra when things are "ok"17:26
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dkranzsdague: I think we may need to modify our gating strategy but that is not a topic for now.17:27
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dkranzok, then17:27
dkranz#topic General Discussion17:27
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afazekasis this change still needed ?17:27
sdaguedkranz: agreed, I'm having dinner with jeblair and jog0 tonight, I'm sure it will come up17:28
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dkranzafazekas: Not sure17:29
dkranzsdague: Can you comment on ^^^. You pushed it through (or tried to)17:29
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sdaguelast night we were trying to sort out anything else that might help us on stability17:30
sdagueclarkb and jog0 felt that was one of the things that would help17:31
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dkranzafazekas: You gave it a -117:31
clarkbafazekas: yes it is needed17:31
clarkb1251920 is currently the biggest gate problem and 57193 works around it for now17:31
dkranzSo it just needs a reverify17:32
clarkbdkranz: it is in the gate now17:32
dkranzclarkb: ok17:32
afazekasdkranz: yes because the big in the skip decorator is in Fix committed status17:32
clarkb1251920 is definitely not fixed I think that should be changed17:33
afazekasseveral other bug was also marked as duplicate of that bug17:33
clarkboh the oslo sync change marked it fixed but it didn't actually fix the bug17:33
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clarkbafazekas: I think that bug should be marked invalid for nova and triaged for tempest17:34
sdagueclarkb: so I ran recheck to get new results, did you reverify to put it back in the gate?17:34
afazekas and this ?17:34
clarkbsdague: something else got it in the gate17:34
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1251784 in tripleo "nova+neutron scheduling error: Connection to neutron failed: Maximum attempts reached (dup-of: 1251920)" [Critical,New]17:34
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1251920 in nova "Tempest failures due to failure to return console logs from an instance" [Critical,Fix committed]17:34
clarkbsdague: I am not sure what :) but it is there17:34
clarkbafazekas: I think the confusion here is we thought the nova oslo sync would fix several problems17:36
dkranzThis is kind of a mess17:36
clarkbafazekas: it did fix 1251784 but no 125192017:36
clarkbso they need to be deduped17:36
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clarkbyes it is a mess17:37
sdaguedkranz: it is kind of a mess, thankfully clarkb and jog0 have been unwinding it17:37
clarkbI am going to start drafting up a thing in the etherpad that has been tracking it sothat we can make sense of it all17:37
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dkranzclarkb: Thanks.17:37
dkranzclarkb: Then we can adjust the state of bugs, etc.17:37
* sdague owes clarkb plenty of beer17:38
dkranzAny other issues to discuss?17:38
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afazekas instance validation via ssh ?17:39
dkranzOK, I guess we can end early today.17:39
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dkranzafazekas: Can you elaborate?17:39
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dkranzafazekas: Looks like it is just waiting for +A17:39
sdagueafazekas: I'll look17:40
afazekassdague: thx17:40
dkranzafazekas: The last is not ready for review17:40
sdagueso the last jenkins success was a month ago, I'm going to recheck it17:40
afazekasit is17:40
sdagueand if it looks good, will +A17:40
dkranzafazekas: It says work in progress and depends on an abandoned patch?17:41
afazekasI have changed the default behavior to connect via the fixed ip based on sdagues request17:41
afazekasif I would change the default to floating , it would pass on the gate17:41
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dkranzafazekas: ok, I'll look too17:43
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dkranzAnything else?17:43
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dkranzShould we cancel next week or does some one non-US want to lead?17:44
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dkranzanteaya: Yes?17:45
dkranzok, I guess that's it for today.17:46
sdagueafazekas: did you vote for core adds on the public list?17:46
sdagueI think you were the last tempest-core unaccounted for?17:47
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anteayajust responding to my name earlier17:47
afazekassdague: I will, thank you17:48
anteayaoh I do have a comment17:48
anteayaI can't make the neutron team meeting next week17:48
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anteayawould be great if someone could take my spot for Neutron Tempest topic17:49
anteayaI will try to populate the agenda item on Sunday17:49
anteayaany takers?17:49
dkranzanteaya: When is it?17:49
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anteayaMonday at 21 utc I think17:49
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mlavalleanteaya: I can do it17:50
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anteayaWeekly on Mondays at 2100 UTC17:50
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anteayaawesome thanks mlavalle I'll co-ordinate with you17:50
anteayathat's it from me17:51
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:51
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 21 17:51:22 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:51
openstackMinutes (text):
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 21 18:00:41 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:00
bdpaynegood morning / afternoon / evening everyone18:00
sriramheregood morning!18:01
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bdpayneany others here for the OSSG meeting?18:01
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sriramhereme here18:01
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bdpayneok, let's get started18:02
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bdpaynelast week we did some post summit wrapup18:03
bdpayneand I suggested a lot of ways for people to get involved18:03
bdpaynethis week, I'm happy to report that several people have stepped up to help out18:03
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bdpaynenkinder will be our community manager18:04
bdpaynewelcome nkinder18:04
sriramherefirst order business - congratulations to nkinder!18:04
bdpaynewe also have some momentum on the OSSNs with people volunteering to help and/or edit them18:04
bknudsonnkinder: what does community manager do?18:04
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nkinderbknudson: that's a good question that I'm trying to figure out. :)18:05
nkinderI think a big part is coordination with the projects around security18:05
bdpaynehere's the simple description I put together "As the Community Manager, Nathan will take the lead on ensuring that the work happening in OSSG is known by others in the community.  And he'll help us focus our involvement in conferences and other such events."18:05
bknudsonok, that sounds great18:05
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bdpayneclearly nkinder will need to get up to speed on all things OSSG18:06
nkinderI'm looking at doing more than just organizing communication as well.  Helping to improve our processes and expand what we do.18:06
nkinderyeah, there's a lot to learn.18:06
bdpaynebut please feel free to pick his brain, and leverage him as a resource for communicating what we do18:06
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bdpayneI have also heard from someone ineterested in being an editor for the book... so hopefully that comes together18:07
bdpaynemore details soonish on that, hopefully18:07
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sriramherethat's great - bryan - what does it require to be the editor for the book?18:07
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bdpaynegood writing skills18:08
bdpaynewell, that and some knowledge of the domain18:08
sriramhereno, does it need any company affiiliation/ partime / full time etc18:08
bdpayneoh, certainly not anything like that18:08
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bdpaynein my email yesterday, I just reached out looking for some book editors to help cleanup the book and make it a more polished read18:09
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nkinderso we'll take what we can get :)18:09
bdpaynesriramhere you want to help? :-)18:09
sriramhereYes Bryan18:09
bdpayneexcellent, I'll be in touch about that18:09
sriramherei missed that email, but would like to help.18:09
bdpayneso, with that length intro18:10
bdpayneanything that people want to discuss today?18:10
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sriramheregot update and a followup question18:10
nkinderOSSN/OSSA publishing is a topic I'd like to discuss18:10
sriramhereupdate : following nkinder, me working on OSSN18:10
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1227575 in nova "DoS style attack on noVNC server can lead to service interruption or disruption" [High,In progress]18:10
bknudsonif no other topics -- are you guys familiar with nist / fips standards ?18:10
sriramherenkinder - u go first. didnt mean to interrupt the OSSN updates18:11
bdpaynebknudson we can discuss that a bit at the end18:11
bknudsonbdpayne: thanks18:11
bdpayne#topic OSSN updates18:11
*** openstack changes topic to "OSSN updates (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:11
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nkinderOk, so I have one OSSN that is ready for publishing18:11
nkinderbeing that it's my first OSSN, I'm not sure what lists we usually send them to.18:12
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bdpayneI think that they have gone to just in the past18:12
nkinderok, just the main user list?18:12
bdpaynebut... wide coverage may make sense18:12
bknudsonand -announce?18:12
nkinderalright, I'll send that out today.18:12
bdpaynein the past, not -announce18:13
nkinderperhaps.... that brings me to the larger topic I want to discuss18:13
bdpaynebut, yeah... I know where nkinder is headed... so go ahead18:13
nkinderIt seems like the notices can get missed easily with just sending them out to the main mailing list.18:13
nkinderI think we might want a separate list just for advisories, and putting them up on a wiki/webpage would be great too.18:14
nkinderThat starts to get into the format of the advisories/notes too.18:14
sriramhereCan we work with Stef on surfacting this up to COmmunity Newsletter?18:14
sriramherewe talked about a 'Security Corner' in the newsletter18:14
joel-coffmanwhat about the dev list too?18:14
nkinderthe newsletter would be good.18:15
sriramhereLinks to the wiki/ webpage can go in that 'Security Corner' updates18:15
bdpayneI think that posting to dev and the main list is typically discouraged18:15
nkinderThe more broadly distributed the better I think, but there should be a way to easily be notified without a lot of other noise.18:15
bdpayneI think that something like this is perhaps best placed on a webpage / wiki18:15
bdpaynewith a feed, perhaps18:15
nkinderI'd like to get things into a structured format, like CVRF.18:15
bdpayneand then we could announce that we are doing that via the newsletter, for example18:15
sriramherei like the idea of adding to a blog/ wiki and surfacing up to newsletter18:16
nkinderI'm starting to investigate that.  If we have the advisories in CVRF format, we can then generate other formats for wiki/e-mail/newsletter too.18:16
bdpaynenkinder that sounds reasonable18:17
bdpayneshould certainly coordiate with VMT people on this18:17
bdpaynewould be nice to have a parallel publishing setup for OSSAs18:17
nkinderI'm doing some initial investigation, but planned to write something up to discuss with VMT18:17
bdpaynebut for now, just a post to the mailing list is a good start18:18
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nkinderok, I'm good on that topic.18:18
sriramhereok, i want to followup on threa model18:19
bdpayne#topic threat model18:19
*** openstack changes topic to "threat model (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:19
bdpaynetake it away sriramhere18:19
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sriramherethanks to Shohel, we have the wiki up18:19
sriramhereHe put in to touch with couple others from his team who can coordiante while he is away18:20
sriramherei want to know who else is interested, so we can have a quick chat on next steps18:20
bknudsonlink to wiki?18:20
bdpaynefor those that aren't aware, this is about work that is aiming to do some threat modeling on some of the key integrated projects for OpenStack (like Keystone, Nova, Swift, etc)18:21
sriramherethanks Bryan. you beat me :)18:21
nkinderI saw that there was an analysis of Keystone a few releases back.18:21
bdpaynesriramhere any more details on the approach or what kind of expertise are needed for this project?18:22
bknudsonis the output updated books or bugs?18:22
sriramhereprior exp. with threat modeling preferred18:22
bdpayneoutput here will be bugs... and hopefully some lessons learned to improve the dev process more broadly18:22
sriramhereeven if not, let us get started with interested people18:22
bdpaynebknudson is this a space you are interested in?18:23
bknudsonI wish I had the time...18:23
bknudsonwe'll be interested in the results18:23
bdpayneha, I know that feeling18:23
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bknudsonand of course if there's questions about keystone I should be able to answer18:23
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bdpaynesriramhere anything else on this topic?18:24
bknudsonkeystone definitely has a large surface area by itself.18:24
sriramherelooks like no one in the meeting now has bandwidth to join. so done with the topic18:24
bdpayneok, let's move on to our final topic18:24
bdpayne#topic fips / nist stuff18:25
*** openstack changes topic to "fips / nist stuff (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:25
bdpaynebknudson you had questions here?18:25
bknudsonpeople around here ask about this stuff.18:25
bknudsonand I was wondering if there was any community effort in this area that you knew of.18:25
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bknudsonrelated to key lengths.18:25
nkinderEC keys?18:26
bdpayneso the short answer is no18:26
bdpaynethis is one area that we haven't hit as much18:26
bdpaynethe book does have a chapter on compliance18:26
bdpaynebut this is a touch different18:26
bknudsonyes, I was just reading through the security book and hadn't gotten to that yet.18:26
bdpayneI, for one, think it would be a nice contribution to have someone pull together the relavent docs and put together some best practices there18:26
bknudsonalright, well if I find out stuff related to this I'll keep the security group informed.18:27
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bdpayneone of the challenges is in just general key management / key rotation / key expiration / etc... and Cloudkeep / Barbican aims to improve this quite a bit18:27
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bdpaynebut there's other challenges around understanding where an OpenStack deployment uses keys and how they should each be handled, for example18:28
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nkinderThat seems to be the difficulty now.  Who is responsible for keys in general?18:28
bdpaynethis came up on the mailing list recently18:28
bdpayneJeffrey Walton asked the question, I believe18:28
bknudsonthere's key handling stuff in keystone, in barbican ... obviously nova has some access keys...18:28
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bdpaynebut the answer to "who is repsonsible for keys" is basically the cloud implementor today... with help from Barbican in the future18:29
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bdpayneI think that we should work to get all of that in one place18:29
sriramhereare we proposing a key manager18:29
bdpayneand I do think that Barbican is the right place18:29
rellerrellerThere is a proposed KM interface18:29
bdpayneBarbican is a key manager18:29
rellerrellerI think we should work to standarize that and eventually push that into oslo18:29
bdpayne#topic End NOtes18:30
*** openstack changes topic to "End NOtes (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:30
rellerrellerThen Barbican or whatever else KM would work18:30
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bdpayneJust a note that we won't meet next week b/c of US Thanksgiving holiday18:30
bdpayneand with that, we are out of time18:30
bdpaynehappy to continue the key manager stuff on the ML18:30
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sriramherethanks, happt thanksgiving!18:30
nkinderthanks everyone18:30
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:31
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 21 18:31:01 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:31
openstackMinutes (text):
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hyakuheiEvening all19:03
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hyakuheiSo, looks like we just had a netsplit, I suggest we wait a minute or two for irc to fix iteself before starting the meeting.19:06
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hyakuheibdpayne: you here?19:10
hyakuheiSo I joined a little late, Not sure if my irc client is playing up or today is just really quiet?19:10
thomasbiegei was late too19:10
thomasbiegebut it looks like we dont have a meeting today19:11
hyakuheiHmm, ok I'll start the meeting19:11
hyakuheiIf I can remember how19:11
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hyakuhei#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group19:12
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 21 19:12:21 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hyakuhei. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:12
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"19:12
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'19:12
hyakuheiWow, look at that.19:12
hyakuheiOk, lets take a quick roll call, see if there's more than the two of us here!19:12
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* hyakuhei Rob - HP Cloud19:12
hyakuheithomasbiege: I guess you're here19:13
hyakuheiI guess other than that we don't have anyone here.19:13
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hyakuheiI think there's a horrible netsplit going on19:14
hyakuheiok, ending the meeting.19:14
dolphmdidn't the OSSG meeting start like an hour ago?19:14
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* dolphm is having deja vu19:15
hyakuheidolphm: Possibly. It's in my calendar for 7pm but that doesn't play nicely with timezones.19:15
dolphmhyakuhei: full log of the meeting an hour ago
dolphmhyakuhei: it's currently 19:16 UTC -- OSSG meets at 18:00 UTC :)19:16
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dolphmthis looks to be the time slot for the nova database team meeting19:18
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hyakuheiThanks dolphm, I'll change my calendar appointment.19:21
dolphmhyakuhei: no worries - this is how openstack celebrates daylight savings19:21
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lifelessdolphm: nova meeting is in 2 hours I think19:23
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dolphmlifeless: correct- but i was referring to this
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lifelessdolphm: oh right :>19:27
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dolphmhyakuhei: the meeting you started is still active19:28
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lifelessnope, needs hyakuhei :(19:32
morganfainbergah might let anyone kill the meeting once the meeting "time slot" has finished (60 min?)19:34
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fungiyeah, as soon as 20:12 utc rolls around, anyone should be able to #endmeeting19:40
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dolphmhyakuhei: ping ^20:00
harlowja#startmeeting state-management20:00
openstackharlowja: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.20:00
harlowjahyakuhei can u stop the meeting :-/20:00
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dolphmharlowja: you *could* have (part of) your meeting logged as OSSG20:01
harlowjahmmm, guess i have to wait 12 minutes20:01
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harlowjahmmm, anyone around  for state-management meeting20:02
harlowjathis one might not be logged until 10 minutes from now20:02
harlowja*logged correctly*20:02
harlowjameeting got hijaccked20:03
iv_mlet's throw some action items in20:03
harlowja#action don't forget to end the meeting20:03
harlowja#action man all those security holes need fixing20:03
harlowjaanyway, if people are here for the state-management meeting20:05
harlowjastill waiting 7 minutes until i think i can reclaim the meeting20:05
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harlowjado do20:08
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harlowja#startmeeting state-management20:12
openstackharlowja: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.20:12
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"20:12
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 21 20:12:38 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:12
openstackMinutes (text):
harlowjathx iv_m20:12
harlowja#startmeeting state-management20:13
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 21 20:13:05 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:13
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:13
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'state_management'20:13
harlowjaok dokie, back in action20:13
iv_mso, hi there)20:13
harlowjahi hi20:13
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harlowjasorry for the late meeting, not my fault :)20:13
harukano it's ok20:14
harlowja#topic previous-action-items20:14
*** openstack changes topic to "previous-action-items (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:14
harlowjaso the previous one was before the summit20:14
harlowjaand was mostly around summit planning (and icehouse planning)20:15
harlowja i think is still a good place to know what everyone is up to20:15
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harlowjaso if u are doing anything, helpful to just put it on there (so that others know)20:15
harlowjasince its not so easy to cross link blueprints20:15
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harlowjawhich brings us into the summit results/summary20:16
harlowja#topic summit20:16
*** openstack changes topic to "summit (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:16
harukanot yet have started.20:16
harlowjanp haruka thats fine20:16
harlowjajust a good place to even keep track of planning20:16
harlowjasince a cross-project like taskflow, hard to know where everyone is20:17
harukai think so too:)20:17
harlowjaso about the summit20:18
harlowjawho all was there, hopefully u guys attended my sessions, ha20:18
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harlowjaif not, thats ok too :)20:18
harlowjaoverall i think it was very good for taskflow20:18
harlowjalots of good input, feedback, and desire to keep on movin with features and integration20:19
harlowjaand people approaching me saying they want to help (which is always nice)20:19
harlowjamistral to, with rakhmerov , good meetings there to20:19
harlowjanext time iv_m  must go, ha20:19
iv_mlet's see20:20
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harlowjathx :)20:20
iv_m^^ i think nice to have it here20:20
harlowjaas with result to actual work to do20:21
harlowjathere was quite alot of desire for a distributed 'something'20:21
harlowjaheat folks especially for that20:21
harlowjaglance i think is ok with not having it to start (for there async-worker concept)20:21
harlowjaheat though also has other work to do to get ready for a start at integration20:22
harlowjaalthough talking to them, zaneb angus (and others) i think they want to try to start down the path of making that happen20:22
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harlowjacinder of course, lots of good stuff there, that one i think is going smoothly (multiple reviews up that are being worked on there)20:22
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harlowjacinder folks were very nice +1 jgriffith hemna ...20:23
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harlowjanova discussions were interesting, still a little hard for me to tell where nova is going with regards to all of this20:23
harlowjawas alot of discussion, but hard to tell what the final result was20:24
harlowjanova is hard, cause its complex, and the ordering dependency to make taskflow there possible is tough to decipher20:24
harukaalso from point of conductor.20:24
harlowjaya, i don't think conductor is a conflict, its in my mind, just the thing that runs the workflows20:25
harlowjaand thats fine, but there are ordering dependencies around moving workflow, how to do this without breakage...20:25
harlowja*moving workflows20:25
harlowjanot so easy to approach that problem (requires expertise in nova itself)20:25
harlowja*expertise and lots of time20:26
harlowja was a good session anyway20:26
harlowjabut was very ambituous imho20:26
harlowja"    complete migrate, live migrate, resize, boot20:26
harlowja    rework snapshots" comment there20:26
harlowjathats 5 major workflows20:27
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harlowjanot really sure if thats feasible, and then also including a task web api20:27
harlowjaso 6 big moving pieces20:27
harlowjaanyways, we'll see what happens there20:27
harlowjathe more the better, and i guess we can hopefully get taskflow in to help there20:28
harlowjaif anyone is up for a challenge (i'll try to get going there to)20:28
* iv_m too20:28
harlowjacool, so from my knowledge of nova, they are hoping people open blueprints ahead of time, so if u want to try something there (remember u will probably have to devote quite a bit of your time to it) i think the approach is to file those blueprints sooner rather than later20:29
harlowjaand then probably include them on so others know20:30
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harlowjacool, any other summit questions/feedback ?20:31
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harukalet's see ...20:32
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harukai watched the review .20:32
harukadid anyone join cinder IRC or heard about this in detail?20:33
harlowjaiv_m i think can answer that20:33
harlowja*afaik its not abandoned, but is being worked on actively20:33
harukado you know any detail of abandone by John Griffith20:34
iv_mAnastasia is working on that, i hope she'll send updated patch in couple of days20:34
harukaoh ok20:34
harukaok thanks.20:34
harlowjaharuka the abandonment is more of just what happens when there isn't activity on it for a few days20:34
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harlowjathx iv_m, let us know if anastasia needs any help20:35
harukai got. i understood that under trying.20:35
harlowjak :)20:35
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harlowjaalright, next topic20:35
harlowja#topic 0.2 Planning20:35
*** openstack changes topic to "0.2 Planning (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:35
harlowjaso for 0.2, the next major release of taskflow i just wanted to go over what i think is a good goal20:36
harlowjaand when20:36
harlowjabut also want to empathize that integration should probably be most of the main focus20:37
harlowjaotherwise to me the 3 nice things to have, are 1, the jobboard part that i am working on20:37
harlowja2, some type of distributed engine type (simpler the better honestly)20:38
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harlowjawhich anatasia is also working on20:38
harlowjaand which i think changbl is looking into20:38
harlowjaand any other bug fixes that come from integration (we can maybe even have these be 0.1.x releases if needed)20:39
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harlowjasound reasonable?20:39
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harlowjaand if we can, would be nice to20:39
harukayes, i think.20:39
iv_myeah, Anastasia did some research on distributed engine, and we discussed basic design20:39
iv_mi think i'll post some design docs tomorrow, or next week20:40
harlowjaya, hopefully soon we can send out a nice email to openstack-dev about here research and results, that'd be great20:40
harlowjagreat iv_m20:40
harlowja*her research20:40
harukaabou logbook, no persistence, i got.20:41
harlowjai'm also ongoing working with mistral folks, so a few other blueprints might result (to early to see still)20:41
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harlowjaand others at
harlowjaso feel free to look over those if u guys want20:42
harlowjamistral as an engine inside taskflow is interseting (recursion...)20:42
harlowjabut may at the current time just be more of thinking through the issues20:42
harlowjai think some of the ideas connect into anastasias work iv_m to20:43
harlowjaharuka any questions on logbook or persistence that u have?20:43
iv_manother thing i've been working on is to bring in ability to split task graph into subgraph and be able to execute or revert any subgraph20:44
harlowjaah yes, thx for bringing that up20:44
harlowjaalso ekarlso is investigating whats happening with
harlowjathere was a summit session about having that be a new library (the general idea)20:44
harlowjaekarlso u around?20:45
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harlowjak :)20:45
harukai haven't checked this ethepad. i will see.20:46
harlowjaiv_m do u think we should have a new blueprint for your current work, or maybe its a combination of a few that exist?20:46
harlowjaharuka sounds good20:46
harlowjaiv_m maybe a combination of and the reversion strategy one20:47
iv_mharlowja, well, maybe, as it is preparing underlying infrastructure for reversion strategies and smart revert bps20:47
harlowjasure sure20:47
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harlowjamaybe a new one (parent) that has those other 2 as dependencies (childs)20:48
iv_msounds good20:48
harlowjacool, thx iv_m20:48
changblhi guys, sorry i am late. harlowja, can you tell me about the zk impl commit?
harlowjaah, sure20:48
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harlowjaif we have anytime for open discuss, how about then?20:49
harlowjasound ok changbl20:49
harlowjaits not conflicting with your work20:49
changblsure, harlowja20:49
harlowjaso as for 0.2 timeline20:49
harlowjai am hopeful the earlier the better (not at the end of icehouse, ha)20:49
harlowjai haven't seen an official icehouse release schedule yet20:50
iv_mi think we should release 0.2 as soon as at least some of them major features ready20:50
harlowjai was hearing that icehouse will be around april 2020:51
harlowjabut i see no reason why we can't get stuff out way before that20:51
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harlowjaso maybe lets just aim for mid-jan20:51
harlowjaor if not, when its ready :-P20:52
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harlowjalets see how it goes i guess :)20:53
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iv_mi like idea releasing when it's ready, with mid-jan being rough estimate for features we mentioned above20:53
harlowjasounds good20:54
harlowjai think thats feasible20:54
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harlowjaok, we sorta mixed in the integration question with the above stuff, so lets jump to opendiscuss for last 5 minutes20:54
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iv_mbut if we decide that e.g. your logbook stuff is ready, we should not sit on it, but release 0.2 with it and consider others 0.3 features20:54
harlowjasounds good to me iv_m20:55
harlowjamocking out zookeeper so that i can unit test that sucker20:55
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harlowja#topic open-discuss20:55
*** openstack changes topic to "open-discuss (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:55
harlowjaso an interesting thing from a conversation yesterday with a new folk in #openstack-state-managment20:56
harlowjathought it was interseting to hear20:56
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harlowjaSEJeff_Work is refactoring his internal cloud software (which is a mix of openstack and not openstack) using taskflow20:56
harlowjai thought that was neat20:56
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harlowjatells me we are doing something right :)20:57
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harlowjaat least he is prototyping that work, and we'll see what happens next20:57
harlowjaneat to hear about that kind of usage :)20:58
haruka:) i have a question.20:58
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harlowja2 minutes,20:58
harlowjais it quick, changbl haruka might have to jump to #openstack-state-management20:58
harlowjarunning out of time :(20:58
harukaabout snasphot taskflow-nize in ongoing?20:58
harukais  ongoing?20:58
harlowjait appears so, not completly sure of its status20:59
harlowjai think is working through this20:59
harlowjai think stanislav is in the other channel to20:59
harlowjak, times up20:59
harlowjathx all for coming :)20:59
harlowjauntil next time!21:00
harukathanks bye21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 21 21:00:05 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:00
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openstackMinutes (text):
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russellb#startmeeting nova21:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Nov 21 21:01:10 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:01
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russellbhello everyone!21:01
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russellb#topic general announcements21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "general announcements (Meeting topic: nova)"21:01
russellbthe compute program needs a mission statement21:02
russellbi drafted one, if anyone has feedback let me know, before i propose it to the governance repo21:02
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russellbit's kinda buzzwordy, but ... trying to capture everything we do into a brief statement21:02
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russellbanyway, not a huge deal, don't want to bikeshed it, but want to give everyone a chance to provide input if you want to :)21:03
russellbnext thing ... mid cycle meetup21:03
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russellbwe talked about this a bit last week21:03
johnthetubaguylooks quite good to me, I wonder if we should mention the API, but yeah, looks good21:03
russellbdates are confirmed as Feb 10-1221:03
russellb3 days21:03
russellbin Orem, UT21:03
russellb(right outside SLC)21:04
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russellbat Bluehost's facility, thanks to geekinutah :)21:04
jog0I assume there will be a ML announcement21:04
russellbwe're very close21:04
jog0and woot21:04
russellblast thing was getting hotel links on our wiki page with all the details21:04
russellbwe'll also have an eventbrite thing to register21:04
russellbbut once the details are on the page, i'll post to the ML21:05
russellbjust wanted to share the status21:05
mikalThat's super awesome, thanks for tweaking the dates21:05
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russellbi'm hoping to tack on a day of snowboarding :)21:05
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russellbif anyone wants to join ...21:05
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russellband laugh at me21:05
jaybuffrussellb: i'm in!21:05
mikalrussellb: sorry, I'm a nerd and can't do that. I would hurt my typing hands.21:06
russellbmaybe we could go tubing one night, heh21:06
* n0ano (skier) refuses to comment on knuckle draggers :-)21:06
mriedem1doesn't anyone ski anymore?21:06
mikalI would like to go skidooing21:06
johnthetubaguymikal: I am with you, is there a good pub with a nice view?21:06
russellbhotel should be just under $100/night21:06
mikaljohnthetubaguy: we can find one I am sure. Oh, except its Utah. Do they drink there?21:06
russellbso that should be enough to go ask nicely for budget21:06
jaybuffmikal: every day except sunday (serious)21:07
mikaljaybuff: works for me21:07
russellbnext item of business!21:07
mikalSunday can be liver recovery day21:07
russellb#topic sub-teams21:07
*** openstack changes topic to "sub-teams (Meeting topic: nova)"21:07
* johnthetubaguy raises hand21:07
russellbjohnthetubaguy: k, you can go first21:07
* n0ano scheduler21:07
* hartsocks waves21:07
johnthetubaguyso, xenapi stuff, making progress with tempest tests21:07
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johnthetubaguyquite a few blueprint bits and bobs going in21:08
johnthetubaguyI think thats about all from me21:08
russellbcool, smokestack come back?21:08
johnthetubaguynot that I know of, its a packaging issues21:08
johnthetubaguydanp is on the case though, I am told21:09
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russellbn0ano: scheduler!21:09
n0anolively discussion this week (I should go away more often)21:09
n0anoinstance groups: hope to complete V3 api's for Icehouse21:09
n0anoscalaility: hoping to get info from Boris, goal of ~1000 nodes, simulation vs. real world numbers21:09
n0anosql vs. nosql: discussed a little, google Omega project is worth looking at21:09
n0anoscheduler as a service: Nova, Cinder & Neutron all need a scheduler, very early on this21:09
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n0anothat's pretty much what we went through for now.21:10
russellbok, and i think there's a thread starting on openstack-dev about now about the common scheduler21:10
russellbso that's something to watch21:10
russellbi'm very keen on that idea21:10
russellbto just bite the bullet and run with that sooner than later ... with a very tightly limited scope to only replace nova's scheduler to start with21:10
n0anomaybe, neutron's needs are simple so I'm not totally convined we need a separate service but we'll see21:11
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russellbwell i think it's more about the information living somewhere common21:11
russellbfailure domains, locality21:11
russellbbecause scheduling instances needs all of that21:11
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russellbbut anyway, a hot topic in the next week i expect21:12
russellblet's take it to the list :)21:12
n0anothere are other proposals to have multiple schedulers, reducing failure domains a little but good discussion21:12
russellbhartsocks: you're up21:12
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* mriedem1 raises hand after hartsocks21:12
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hartsocksWe have a couple bugs folks marked "Critical" ...21:12
hartsocks... kills the vmware drivers for anyone on postgres it turns out. oops.21:12
hartsocks... kills our CI environment. oops.21:12
hartsocksStill working on priorities for our BP work. We're excited to do something on the configuration validator that will be broadly usable. *woot*21:12
* lifeless puts up hand for coordinating the common scheduler stuff :)21:12
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1195139 in nova "vmware Hyper  doesn't report hypervisor version correctly to database" [Critical,In progress]21:12
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1252827 in openstack-vmwareapi-team "VMWARE: Intermittent problem with stats reporting" [Critical,Confirmed]21:12
hartsocksI typed that up ahead of time :-)21:13
russellblifeless: awesome21:13
* melwitt raises hand after mriedem121:13
devanandaFWIW, as schedulers go, ironic would probably be involved if there's a general scheduling service, particularly if it starts being aware of failure domains and such21:13
hartsocksThe scheduler stuff is really interesting IMHO.21:13
russellbOK, please be careful when using critical ...21:14
n0anowe have weekly meetings on Tues (check the wiki for details), the more the merrier21:14
mspreitzFailure domain awareness is one of the motivating use case for my work on holistic scheduling.21:14
yjiang51hartsocks: +121:14
hartsocksWe really want these two to go back soon.21:14
hartsocksback port to Havana that is.21:14
hartsocksBasically our driver kills things if you're on Postgres… and the other bug is killing our CI. :-)21:15
russellbOK, fixes up?21:15
hartsocksyep. or very soon on the way.21:15
hartsocksThe DB thing is up now.21:15
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russellbok cool21:16
russellbanything else?21:16
hartsocksthat's my pleading for today.21:16
russellbmriedem1: hi!21:16
dansmithzomg zomg zomg21:16
mriedem1for powervm we were requesting some core eyes on a review:
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dansmithI call dibs on +A on that21:17
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mriedem1ha, so we should probably tell dperaza21:17
russellbcan you please add a link to that review to the ReleaseNotes/Icehouse wiki page?21:17
russellbi think that's the one21:17
mriedem1he just pushed a change for config drive21:17
dansmithmriedem1: I just -2d that :D21:17
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dperazahere now21:18
lbragstadmriedem1: yeah I just saw that. I no longer need at ask my question either :)21:18
russellbwell hello there21:18
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* russellb fine with it if you guys are21:18
mriedem1i'll update the wiki21:18
russellbeasy enough21:18
dansmithI'm more than fine with it21:18
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russellbshould we apply something to stable/havana, like a deprecation log message or something?21:19
russellbjust ... in case?21:19
johnthetubaguyI would ask questions about deprecation windows but?21:19
mriedem1russellb: we can if someone wants us to21:19
dansmithrussellb: for the principle, yeah, but..21:19
russellbheh, k21:19
* mrodden was wondering about that too21:19
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mroddento my knowledge there aren't any external users of it21:19
russellbif it's not possible that anyone would be using it, meh21:20
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russellbwhat about internal users you don't know about?21:20
russellbanyway, just stuff to consider, no rush21:20
mriedem1it's us i think21:20
mriedem1i don't need to get into the internal drama here21:20
mriedem1it's fun, but not here21:20
russellbmelwitt: hello!  have some novaclient info?21:20
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melwittI have our weekly report. :)21:20
melwitt105 bugs open !(fix released), 78 bugs open !(fix committed), 35 new bugs, no high priority bugs21:20
melwitt10 patches up and being actively reviewed and updated or WIP21:20
melwittand I just started going through cleaning the bug list, trying to reproduce the issues and closing old bugs that have since been fixed21:20
melwittthat's about it21:20
russellbreally appreciate the bug list cleanup, long overdue21:21
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russellbif anyone wants to help, please talk to melwitt !21:21
russellba good opportunity to contribute :)21:21
russellbprobably some good bug fix opportunities in that list21:22
russellbone last thing for sub-teams, since a lot are aronud compute drivers21:22
russellbplease see dansmith's post and nice wiki page on the driver deprecation plan ...
russellbwe've talked about how we needed to write down more details about the driver testing requirement and deprecation plan, so there it is21:23
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russellbso let us know if you have any questions on any of it!21:23
russellbi think everyone is well aware of the requirements at this point21:24
russellb#topic bugs21:24
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:24
russellblifeless: hello, bug czar!21:24
lifelessis my current thoughts21:24
lifelessI've now basically finished my massive set of HP paper reviews so I have bandwidth to push this forward21:25
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mriedem1lifeless: so we talked about this a bit, and i added to the agenda, but wondering about how to handle CI/gate breaker bugs special?21:25
lifelessnext week I hope to have some metrics, and if we have consensus on the desired properties I will get onto the larger discussion about the exact process to achieve them21:25
mriedem1i think we should work that into your etherpad somehow21:26
mriedem1jog0 should have input there21:26
lifelessmriedem1: jeblair's email is what I think the answer is: qa get to say 'X is critical' in any gate related project.21:26
mriedem1lifeless: yup, his email was good timing21:26
jaybuffif it breaks the gate, why not revert?21:26
russellbit's not always obvious what broke it21:26
mriedem1jaybuff: sometimes finding what to revert is the problem21:26
lifelessjaybuff: thats certainly an option, where feasible.21:26
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russellbif it was obvious, it wouldn't have made it in21:26
jaybuffi see21:27
lifelessjaybuff: and folk do try that. The point in the bug context isn't /how/ the bug is fixed.21:27
lifelessjaybuff: its 'is such a thing critical'- yes it is. and21:27
lifelessjaybuff: how do we get folk working on it quickly21:27
lifelessessentially crisis management21:27
lifelessmriedem1: So, I don't have a view [yet] on specific tags, but I think having a single tag for recheck issues [which such things are by definition] across all of openstack is desirable21:28
jog0mriedem1: I agree with everything said21:28
russellbi think jog0 did a great job this week of raising awareness21:28
russellbwhich is a big part of getting people working on it21:29
jog0so when gate starts failing, the first step is to find a fingerprint for the bug ideally that will be close to the root cause, but not always21:29
russellbraising awareness, and tracking all the moving pieces21:29
lifelessanyhow, thats all I have right now21:29
russellblifeless: cool thanks :)21:29
jog0then we can actaully see how frequent it occurs.  And if its bad we mark as critical21:29
jog0such as
jog0which isn't fixed, we just disabled the test21:29
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1251920 in nova "Tempest failures due to failure to return console logs from an instance" [Critical,In progress]21:29
jog0so mikal has some more work on that one i THink21:29
jog0as we all do21:29
mikaljog0: sigh.21:29
jog0going forward we need to be more aggressive about fixing gate bugs21:30
russellbthat bug is annoying.21:30
jog0so we never wedge the gate again21:30
russellbjog0: thoughts on how we do that?21:30
russellbif we have a gate critical bug, just lock the gate?21:30
clarkbI did look at that test a little, the one that fails was typically running after the test that was skipped, they run in the same test runner and use the same VM21:30
russellbthat's a brute force solution..21:30
clarkbfyi for whoever ends up actually looking at it. I believe it is an inter test interaction due to test orderign and shared resources21:31
jog0russellb: well we want to run all gate jobs x times where x > 121:31
jog0but also what jim said in his email21:32
jog0just do a better job of making sure critical bugs get priority (which why its important to be careful with the critical tag)21:32
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russellbclarkb: interesting21:32
russellbjog0: +121:32
johnthetubaguy+1 to using critical sparingly21:33
jog0also any critical gate issue should be assigned to the next milestone21:33
jog0at least thats the idea I am going with now21:33
jog0to help with visibility  (there may be a better answer to that though)21:34
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cyeohjog0: so openstackrecheck reports to irc when a patch fails due to a recognized bug - could it also report how many times it's seen that failure?21:34
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jog0so we are working on a summery of what happend, in short two bugs took us from unstable gate to wedged in a few days21:34
jog0cyeoh: we have that but hidden a bit
cyeohjog0: thx21:35
johnthetubaguywe have so many jobs now, a small error rate on each adds up to a huge error rate I guess21:35
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russellbright, and with 50 things trying to go in at once, a failure can be really disruptive21:35
russellband cause a ton of wasted test time21:35
jog0also we are exploring killing 'reverify no bug'21:36
jog0as that got us here21:36
russellbjog0: nice21:36
mikalYeah, I've only worked on that one bug this week21:36
mikalIts been a huge pain in the ass21:36
jog0also we are still in critical bug fix only mode21:36
jog0so no +A yet21:36
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jog0getting close to being out ofthis though21:36
jog0mikal: that was a bitch of a bug, and we still don't understand it21:36
russellbbut thinking that it might be test interaction?21:37
russellbclarkb's comment a bit ago was very interesting21:37
jog0russellb: all signs point to yes21:37
russellba good hint...21:37
geekinutahjog0: I like killing reverify no bug, and recheck no bug21:37
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geekinutahat least we end up classifying things21:37
russellbi do too21:37
russellbit's abused way too much21:37
russellbwill be annoying for a few types of failures, but worth it overall i think21:38
geekinutahwhich gets us closer to figuring out if they are critical, etc21:38
jog0anyway I don't want to derail the nova meeting, more info coming soon21:38
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russellbjog0: ok, thanks a bunch21:38
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russellbeveryone give jog0 a high five21:38
russellbjog0: ^521:38
jog0I would personally like to thank mikal for banging his head against the wall for way too long21:38
* bnemec high fives jog021:38
russellband mikal!21:38
russellbmikal: ^521:38
mikaljog0: you're welcome21:38
mspreitzme ^521:38
* mspreitz ^521:38
* bnemec high fives mikal21:38
jog0\o/ to all21:39
cyeohjog0, mikal: ^521:39
* bnemec is starting to feel like a cheerleader21:39
* johnthetubaguy jog0 mikal ^621:39
driptonbe careful with the double high fives; you might fall over21:39
russellbjohnthetubaguy: ooh21:39
mriedem1bnemec: the skirt might have something to do with that21:39
russellbalright, next topic :)21:39
russellb#topic blueprints21:39
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)"21:39
* mriedem1 raises hand21:39
russellbwe made some really good progress in the last week getting icehouse-1 in shape21:39
russellbroadmap wise21:39
russellbi suspect a bunch won't make it that's there though21:40
russellbmerges need to be in by 1.5 weeks fro mnow21:40
russellband that includes a long US holiday weekend ...21:40
russellband the gate issues ... so ...21:40
geekinutahthrows a wrench in things21:40
russellbplease move things to icehouse-2 that you know won't make it, that will save some paperwork as we approach the milestone21:40
russellbalso, here's my latest email to the ML on the Icehouse roadmap status in general21:40
russellbi short: icehouse-1 looking good21:41
russellbnova-core folks need to start sponsoring some blueprints21:41
russellband nova-drivers, we still have some work to do for icehouse-2 and 321:41
russellblots of work now early in the cycle, but should calm down in a few weeks21:41
russellbthat's the full icehouse list21:41
russellb90 blueprints earlier today21:41
russellbOH, i think a bunch are missing still too21:42
russellbfor things we talked about summit ... so get your blueprints posted :)21:42
russellbi think that's all i had ... now on to specific ones!21:42
russellbmriedem1: ok now you can go21:42
mriedem1russellb: was just going to point out some relate bps,21:42
mriedem1about supporting v2 APIs for cinder and glance21:42
mriedem1i wanted to raise attention since the ML thread kind of died21:43
mriedem1but now there is a patch to do the same for cinder v2 so bringing it back up21:43
mriedem1since you guys are reviewing blueprints21:43
russellbso, trying to remember where we left that one ...21:44
russellbdeployers still want a knob to force it to one or the other21:44
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mriedem1right, but there were thoughts on discovery21:44
russellbin the absense of config, we want some automatic version discovery21:44
mriedem1and the keystone service catalog21:44
mriedem1essentially can the service catalog abstract a lot of this garbage from nova21:44
russellbi think the catalog should be to discover the endpoint, not the versions it has21:44
russellband then you talk to the endpoint to do discovery21:44
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russellband cache it so you don't double up on API requests for everything21:45
mriedem1yeah, cache on startup21:45
johnthetubaguyrussellb: +1 it seems a good end goal21:45
mriedem1i just wasn't sure if jog0 was working something else related to the service catalog that interacted with this21:46
cyeohrussellb: agreed. There's been a bit of a discussion about version discovery given that catalog entries for specific versions of apis have started to appear21:46
johnthetubaguywell its cached per user though, its a little tricky21:46
jog0we should make sure keystone agrees with this idea21:47
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johnthetubaguywe also have list of glance servers to round robin, not sure how that fits in the keystone catelog, I guess it might21:47
jog0also we cache the keystone catalog for cinder already21:47
russellbmriedem1: can you ping dolph and get him to weigh in?21:47
jog0in the context21:47
russellbmriedem1: and maybe summarize what we said here?21:47
cyeohfor some apis we might need one version specific catalog entry temporarily as the endpoints often currently point to a specific version rather than the root21:47
mriedem1russellb: sure21:47
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johnthetubaguycyeoh: yeah, I agree, we probably need those for the short term21:48
russellbgreat thanks!21:48
russellbOK, well thanks for raising awareness of this21:49
jog0mriedem1: FYI the only thing I worked on was not saving the entire keystone catalog in the context and that was a while ago21:49
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mriedem1jog0: ok, i'll ping you in nova21:49
jog0mriedem1: ack21:49
russellb#topic open discussion21:50
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:50
russellbmriedem1: you're on tire with topics today21:50
russellbfire, too21:50
mriedem1my other one is open discussion21:50
dolphmmriedem1: russellb: +1 for the bits about cached version discovery against unversioned endpoints in the catalog21:50
mriedem1russellb: so i'll defer for now21:50
russellbdolphm: woot, that was quick21:51
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russellbmriedem1: open discussion time now21:51
mriedem1ok, so oslo-sync21:51
mriedem1Important because of lifeless's sync for the recent gate breakage: and then this:
* lbragstad lurks... 21:51
dolphmi just hope that the version discovery mechanism is smart enough to realize when it's handed a versioned endpoint, and happily run with that21:51
mriedem1there seems to be some debate here21:51
mriedem1bnemec: lifeless ^21:51
dolphm(by calling that endpoint and doing proper discovery)21:52
russellbdolphm: yeah, need to handle that gracefully ...21:52
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bnemecFull Oslo syncs are scary right now, for sure.21:52
russellbnot sure we can really tackle the oslo thing now21:52
russellbit's really a cross project issue21:52
russellband we'd need dhellmann21:52
russellbit might be a good topic for the cross-project weekly meeting on tuesdays21:52
mriedem1yeah, just another timely thing for the gate issues this week and the ML thread21:53
* russellb nods21:53
russellbdefinitely important, but bigger than nova i think21:53
mikalI've been trying to slowly sync the things I maintain21:53
mikalI feel its mostly a maintainter thing21:53
mriedem1last full sync was march21:53
mikalAnd random people shouldn't be doing super syncs they don't know about21:53
russellbwould like to hear what dhellmann thinks is the future here21:53
russellbmikal: yep21:53
russellband aggressively moving toward libs21:53
jog0russellb: agreed, good tuesday chat21:53
mikalrussellb: I feel the interface stability thing is still a good argument for the current way for some things21:54
lifelessI think we should not be syncing at all21:54
lifelessoslo should be a library[6~21:54
mikalrussellb: libs would be just as bad for changed interfaces21:54
lifelesswe can solve the interface stability concerns21:54
russellbfor the tuesday chat, please ask ttx to put it on the agenda21:54
mriedem1i'll take that TODO21:54
mriedem1since i raised it21:54
hartsocksWhen is this on Tuesday? I want to learn what's going on there… I'm confused on OSLO.21:54
mikallifeless: it would be exactly the same work, just a different mechanism21:54
lifelessmikal: no, it wouldn't21:55
russellbhartsocks: we've had a project release status meeting at the same time as this meeting for a long time21:55
russellbbut we've changed the format, to be more discussion based for cross-project topics21:55
hartsocksrussellb: okay, I'll lurk that one.21:55
russellbinstead of weekly release status syncing21:55
russellbyeah it should be a good one21:55
russellbif you're interested in cross project issues anyway21:55
russellbwhich everyone should be to some degree :)21:55
hartsocksrecently becoming a problem for us...21:56
* bnemec adds it to his calendar21:56
russellbi'll be doing the release status sync with ttx in a 1-1 chat21:56
russellbbut in a public channel21:56
mikalAs performance art21:56
russellbit's 1515 UTC tuesday21:56
russellbif anyone cares :)21:56
russellbright now in #openstack-dev21:57
russellbwe go through bugs/blueprint status for the upcoming milestone, and the release roadmap (icehouse) in general21:57
mriedem1is this the link?
lifelessmikal: I will be happy to discuss with you later about this21:57
russellbmake sure we have movement on the highest priority things, etc21:57
russellbmriedem1: yes21:57
mriedem1looks like the wiki has the wrong time21:57
mikallifeless: sure, more than happy to, but pleae try to understand the historical reasons for the way things are first before assuming we're all wrong21:58
lifelessmikal: I was here when the decision was made.21:58
lifelessmikal: I know the historical reason :)21:58
russellbmriedem1: why is the time wrong?  says 2100 UTC, same as this meeting21:58
mriedem1russellb: thought you just said it's 151521:59
mriedem1i must be confused21:59
russellboh, no, that's my weekly nova status sync21:59
mriedem1ah, ok21:59
russellbthe above 2100 UTC meeting is the cross-project meeting21:59
mriedem1times up22:00
mriedem1this has been fun22:00
russellbalright, time up for today!22:00
russellbthanks everyone!22:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"22:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Nov 21 22:00:22 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:00
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