Thursday, 2013-12-05

fifieldthi, yes00:00
sarobfifieldt whatchu think about our discussion above?00:00
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fifieldtit's a good idea, needs careful phrasing00:00
fifieldtlecturers can be a bit tetchy about sharing content00:01
fifieldtbut if you come to them with something they can use00:01
fifieldtthey'll love it00:01
sarobfifieldt roger that00:01
reedanything else to discuss?00:02
fifieldtso it's good to do sooner rather than later00:02
fifieldtwhile noone has gone to the effort of making slides00:02
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fifieldtnot so much00:03
sarobfifieldt reed a slide generation and archival tool for training guides is in the near future00:03
reedneat :)00:03
sarobfor trainers/prof00:03
fifieldtwe could chat about the travel support software, reed00:03
sarobim chatted out, so next topic00:03
fifieldtwell, so just to give sarob an update00:04
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fifieldtSUSE has some software for running their travel support program00:04
fifieldtreed discovered it :)00:04
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reed#topic travel support software00:04
*** openstack changes topic to "travel support software (Meeting topic: openstack-community)"00:04
fifieldtand we were thinking to see if we could use it for the summit travel00:04
fifieldtand/or the ambassador funding program00:04
fifieldtunfortunately, it seems like it's not directly usable - we'd need to do some mods00:05
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fifieldtand given it's in ruby, and fairly basic to begin with, DIYing one in something more maintainable for our community (python/django) is an option as well00:05
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fifieldtthe idea of a tool is to provide process/tracking through the applications00:06
fifieldtand also some reporting00:06
fifieldtin order to replace that google spreadsheet we used for summit travel00:06
fifieldtand also the eventual voting process that turned out00:06
reedwe need to have forms to enter data and a workflow to keep things in order... eventually also for reporting00:07
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fifieldtand ideally, something that integrates with the magical SSO system reed is building00:07
sarobmagic, aye00:07
reedafter the voting process there are notifications to be sent, final acceptance by the candidates, and the whole shebang dealing with the fine details of who goes from where and when00:08
fifieldtsuch as travel agents00:08
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sarobgetting unversities more invovled probably will make this tool even more important00:09
reedI was looking at a workflow engine in django, seems quite powerful but I'd rather not code :)00:09
reedsarob, yeah, and for Ambassadors too :)00:09
sarobi have to take my boy to a bb game00:09
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fifieldtsounds fun00:10
sarobgotta bail on you two00:10
sarobgood progress all around00:10
sarobtalk soon00:10
reedbye sarob00:10
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reedwe may want to close the meeting too00:11
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"00:11
openstackMeeting ended Thu Dec  5 00:11:29 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)00:11
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DaisyI think it's time for I18n meeting. Anybody will join ?07:00
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chandankumarDaisy, Hello07:01
ujucHi, Daisy07:01
epicoHi, Daisy07:01
chandankumarujuc, epico Hello07:01
epicochandankumar, hi07:01
Daisy#startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting07:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Dec  5 07:01:53 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.07:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"07:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'07:01
DaisyHello, everybody07:02
ujucHello :)07:02
DaisyWe have chandankumar, ujuc, epico.07:02
DaisyWelcome, epico.07:02
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DaisyI guess we have smaller and smaller people who join the meeting.07:03
jpichHey, Daisy :)07:03
DaisyHi, jpich! Welcome.07:03
chandankumarjpich, Hello07:03
DaisyLet's start.07:03
Daisy#topic Horizon translation update07:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Horizon translation update (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"07:03
DaisyI got confirmation of Polish translation team that they updated horizon translation.07:04
DaisyAny other team who update Horizon translations?07:04
DaisyHi, amotoki.07:04
jpichHi, amotoki! I was hoping you were around :)07:04
chandankumarDaisy, right now , but will be update soon for hindi :)07:04
Daisychandankumar, I think Horizon dev team will do the translation merge most recently.07:05
Daisyamotoki and jpich, when are you going to submit a patch to update translation?07:05
amotokiThere are some srting changes in horizon stable/havana and I pushed the lastest POT files to Transifex.07:05
Daisyare there any strings remaining not translated?07:06
jpichThe temporary stable branch was cut yesterday - the stable release will be tomorrow morning07:06
jpichSorry - ignore the first part, I meant the stable branch will be frozen tomorrow07:06
Daisyamotoki, I noticed several langauges changed to be 99%07:06
amotokijpich: what is "temporary stable branch"?07:06
jpichso that's our deadline to propose a patch07:06
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jpichamotoki: I'm sorry, I got confused with icehouse-1 for a minute, ignore this comment07:06
amotokithere are a few proposed  patches with string updates to stable/havana.07:07
jpichThere is only stable/havana and it will be frozen... today actually07:07
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amotokii am not sure it will be merged or not for 2013.2.1.07:07
Daisyamotoki, how many times left for translation team to complete those translations? I know there may be a very small update. But the translation team needs to be notified.07:07
* jpich just woke up, brain still a bit slow07:07
Daisysorry, amotoki. How many time left for translation team to complete translation?07:08
Daisyit's ok, jpich.07:08
jpichamotoki: Thanks for pushing the latest string changes to Transifex07:08
amotokiit depends on you all :-)07:08
DaisyPlease check when you are going to raise a patch.07:08
DaisyWhen you are going to submit a new patch07:08
amotokiregarding translation upadte patch, i can write mail to feature freeze exception to allow translators to have time to work on it.07:08
jpichamotoki: I think we will have to07:09
DaisyThank you, amotoki.07:09
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Daisy#action amotoki will write a mail to i18n list and inform the pot file updated07:09
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amotokiDaisy: sure07:10
Daisyplease write the deadline in the mail too.07:10
DaisyI think it won't cost a long time for translators to work on the update. But I don't know how many teams can response on time.07:10
DaisyLet's see, amotoki. I will try to push them to complete the translation on time.07:10
amotokifirst I need to discuss it with stable team. I will write a mail to stable-maint list.07:11
DaisySo we don't need to ask for teams confirmation about their update. Because pot file is updated, so the patch should include all langauges.07:11
Daisyamotoki and jpich: any questions or concerns about Horizon translation?07:12
DeeJay1when I checked yesterday there were 3 new strings for translators to update (I'm late so updating the info from before)07:12
amotoki  fyi there are three patches under review with string update:07:12
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amotoki(The last one is less important.)07:13
DaisyThey are not merged yet.07:13
amotokiyes. *under review*07:14
Daisygot it. I guess, we will wait for these patch merged and then amotoki will send a mail and notify translators, right?07:14
amotokiI am not sure they wil be mergd or not, but if merged we need to have time to catch up.07:15
amotokiThe process and timing related to translation and stable backports are difficult to handle.07:15
Daisyanything to discuss for Horizon translation?07:15
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chandankumarDaisy, how much time is left to submit horizon translations?07:16
amotokiwe need to look for better way to handle it in the future.07:16
jpichchandankumar: We're not sure yet, but not a lot of time. amotoki will send an email to the i18n list when we know the date07:16
DaisyYes, amotoki. That need to be investigate. There is a very short discussion in summit in the release plan meeting.07:17
amotokiin my plan, if feature freeze exception is accepted, i will propose a patch on Sunday or around.07:17
amotokiif not accepted, I will propose a patch as-is.07:17
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DaisyI think we can find a way to notify translators automatically when PoT is updated.07:17
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amotokitransifex notifies it when POT files are updated.07:18
amotokii usually receive notifications.07:18
DaisyI don't get the notification.07:18
DaisyIs it a setting in Transifex?07:18
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amotokiyes. traisifex settings.07:18
Daisyok. Thanks for the information.07:18
amotokiif you "watch" a project, notification will be sent if the project has some update.07:18
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amotokilet's move on the next topic.07:19
DaisyI will figure it out after the meeting.07:19
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Daisy#topic Document translation plan07:19
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DaisyI think we can work on document translations while Icehouse is still developing.07:20
DaisyI hope fifield can be there. He knew the doc development plan very clear.07:20
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Daisyamotoki: which document are your team working on now?07:20
DaisyI heard that operation guide will be upgrade too.07:21
amotokisecurity-guide is being translated now.07:21
Daisychandankumar, ujuc, and DeeJay107:22
amotokiI am catching up with the update of ops-guide, but there is a few progress :-(07:22
DaisyI'd like to understand if we plan to translate operation guide, will your team start to work on the translation?07:23
DaisyI mean, do you want me to make a specific plan for document translation and a deadline too?07:23
DeeJay1ok, if the plan is to translate the ops guide I can do that07:23
Daisyor do you want to manage the schedule yourself.07:23
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Daisythank you, DeeJay1.07:24
chandankumarDaisy, not started07:24
Daisyif there is a plan to translate ops guide, will you follow it, chandankumar?07:24
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chandankumarDaisy, yes i can follow07:24
ujuctraining-guides translated now ... me... :)07:24
DaisyI think Chinese team can work on the ops guide translation too.07:25
Daisyok. Thank you, ujuc.07:25
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DaisyAre you translating in Transifex, ujuc?07:25
ujucyes :)07:25
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DeeJay1BTW is anyone working on a live page with WIP translated docs?07:26
DaisyThen I will make a plan for ops-guide translation, but each translation team can decide whether they will follow.07:26
DaisyWhat is WIP? DeeJay1?07:26
DeeJay1work in progress, sorry for the shortcut07:26
Daisyujuc, are you working on training translation yourself? or you have a team to work on it?07:26
DeeJay1eg a site with the docs updated daily/hourly from transifex07:27
ujucmyself  :)07:27
DaisyDeeJay1, I'm thinking that each translation team have a wiki page to introduce the work they are working on.07:27
amotokiwhen reviewing, transifex is hard to check translations across paragraphs.07:28
DaisyThere is no overall WIP page.07:28
amotokiit is better we have converted page (HTML or PDF) to check translatiosn.07:28
amotokii think what DeeJay1 is talking. right?07:28
DeeJay1amotoki: right07:28
DaisyI know that, amotoki.07:28
Daisyok. I misunderstand.07:29
DeeJay1ok, so nobody's working on that, I'll take a look into it, when I checked two weeks ago, the process was pretty convoluted though07:29
amotokiwhen translting ops-guide in ja, I and katotomo volunteered to convert it and it was hosted on github pages.07:29
DaisyDeeJay1, didn't you raise your hand to work on it?07:29
amotokii heard docs team has a staging server. it may help us.07:29
DaisyYes, staging server.07:30
DaisyI think somebody registered to work on the staging server in the mail list.07:30
DeeJay1I did, but had to stop due to being sick for the last 3 weeks07:30
amotokiin addition, we need to use Ubuntu 12.04 to convert transltiaon docs.07:30
DeeJay1I get back to it though07:30
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amotokiOn Ubuntu 13.04 , some sentences are not translated.07:31
Daisyoh, I'm sorry to hear it, DeeJay1.07:31
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amotokiperhaps it was a bug of i18n doc tool, but we dont have a fix yet.07:31
Daisy#action Daisy to make a plan for ops guide translation and call for team to work on it.07:32
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Daisy#action DeeJay1 to take a look at the staging server usage in document reviewing07:33
Daisyamotoki, which document?07:33
Daisy"On Ubuntu 13.04 , some sentences are not translated."07:33
DaisyCan you explain more, amotoki?07:33
amotokiDaisy: let me check.07:33
DaisyIf it's a bug, please report it in i18n bug tracking page, in the launchpad.07:34
Daisyok. Then we move to next topic.07:34
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Daisy#topic Wiki page review07:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Wiki page review (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"07:35
DaisyI plan to have each translation team to make a wiki page to introduce themselves in the wiki.07:35
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DaisyMany times, I got mail from people asking how to start translation contribution.07:36
DaisySo I think, we need to have pages to clearly list translation team and their contact information, their focus work items and how to join them.07:37
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Daisyujuc, with such page, maybe you can get more people to help you on the training guide translation.07:37
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Daisyamotoki, I know ja team have your own website. I think you can put simple information there, and have a link here to link to ja translation website.07:39
Daisyso we will have unique entrance for people who want to join the translation teams.07:40
amotokii am back now.07:40
amotokisounds good.07:41
ujuc+1 :)07:41
Daisythank you, DeeJay1.07:41
Daisyok. pass.07:41
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Daisy# Daisy to send a mail to I18n and ask translation team to create their own wiki page.07:42
Daisy#action Daisy to send a mail to I18n and ask translation team to create their own wiki page.07:42
Daisy#topic Open discussion07:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"07:42
DaisyAnything else to discuss today?07:42
DaisyHow do you think the IRC meeting help?07:43
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DaisyIs it helpful to host bi-weekly meeting? I know some team join monthly because of the time differences.07:44
ujucwrite wiki page .. first line add [[Category:I18n]] :)07:44
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Daisythanks, ujuc.07:44
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DeeJay1Daisy: IMHO it is, although it is my first meeting I usually read through the logs07:44
DaisyThank you, DeeJay1.07:44
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DaisyI don't want to make you feel that the meeting is a waste of time. :)07:44
DaisyI know there are many things we can discuss in the mail list.07:45
epicoyes, the meeting is helpful. :)07:45
Daisyok. If you have some thoughts about how to host meeting more efficiently, contact with me.07:45
DeeJay1maybe we could do a wiki page with possible topics for the next meeting so everyone can prepare?07:46
jpichDaisy: Personally I think it's good to keep some momentum (I can attend only once a month, but I also read the logs for the other one)07:46
DaisyYes, I agree, jpich.07:46
DaisyPeople who attend the meeting are all very active contributors. :)07:46
jpichDeeJay1: There is an agenda up at usually, does that help?07:47
* jpich suddenly notices the agenda is for the last meeting07:47
DaisyYes, only the last meeting.07:47
DeeJay1ah, I forgot about that page, sorry07:47
DaisyI plan to make I18n team to be an official openstack program.07:48
Daisyit's a secret and only a few people know.07:48
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jpichWoohoo :)07:49
DeeJay1well, after you put it in the logs it isn't ;)07:49
DaisyI want to make it an official program, then there will be more people actively to join it.07:49
chandankumarDaisy, i also know the secret :)07:49
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DaisyAnd our active contributors can get more recognization.07:49
Daisywe can have core members too.07:50
amotokiAnother merit for the official program is that it makes it easier to coordinate and arrage the schedule of translations for release and update.07:50
epicoamotoki, great07:50
DaisyExactly, amotoki.07:50
ujuc lol07:51
DeeJay1what I'd really like is to have a gerrit hook looking for all gettext calls, and especially in stable branches requiring an ACK from the i18n team07:51
Daisyso I hope to get your support. :)07:51
DaisyI'm with you, DeeJay1.07:51
DaisyThat's my thought too.07:51
DaisyI want to category all strings in openstack.07:52
jpichWe were talking about a TranslationImpact commit tag at the summit - it would notify the i18n during the RC period and possibly also for stable updates, if we can make it work there as well07:52
Daisycan we make a blueprint for that?07:52
DaisyI think there is a doc impact now.07:53
jpichYes it would be similar07:53
DaisyMaybe the translation impact is a similar one.07:54
jpichI'll investigate the next steps07:54
DaisyThanks, jpich.07:54
Daisyok. If nothing to talk, we can close the meeting.07:54
ujuc:) Ok07:54
DaisyI really love to talk with you. There are so many "sparkles" during our talk.07:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"07:55
openstackMeeting ended Thu Dec  5 07:55:23 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)07:55
openstackMinutes (text):
chandankumarDaisy, Thank you for the meeting :)07:55
jpichThanks Daisy :)07:55
DaisyThank you for attending.07:55
amotokithanks everyone.07:56
DeeJay1thanks all, now it's back to work for me before the boss finds out :P07:56
ujucThanks :)07:56
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enikanorov_neutron lbaas subteam meeting in 2 minutes13:58
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enikanorov_#startmeeting neutron lbaas subteam meeting14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Dec  5 14:00:26 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is enikanorov_. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas subteam meeting)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas_subteam_meeting'14:00
enikanorov_lbaas folks around?14:01
Vijay_Hi Eugene14:01
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enikanorov_hi Vijay_14:01
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enikanorov_as long as we only have you at the meeting we could discuss ssl if you like14:02
Vijay_sure! we could wait probably a minute more?14:03
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enikanorov_here we go14:04
enikanorov_hi folks14:04
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obondarevmaybe move to the first topic?14:09
enikanorov_#topic announcements14:10
*** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas subteam meeting)"14:10
obondarevnot so many announcements this week I guess)14:11
enikanorov_so we're past I-1, and have 4 more weeks of I-214:12
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enikanorov_main goal for I-2 would be for vendors to setup their third-party testing environments14:12
enikanorov_and for us to provide some scenario tests14:12
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Vijay_should it necessarily run the tempest tests?14:12
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enikanorov_we have already published one basic scenario on review and recently I sent an email to openstack-dev asking about vip wiring14:12
enikanorov_which goes dont to the automating creation of ull loadbalancer configuration14:12
enikanorov_Vijay_: tempest smoke tests14:12
Vijay_I done see any lbass tests in
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enikanorov_so far it appears that all solutions posted on review or implemented, support haproxy-like workflow14:12
enikanorov_Vijay_: there are some API tests14:12
enikanorov_Vijay_: but we're working on scenario tests14:12
enikanorov_they're not yet committed, but are on review14:12
Vijay_ok got it , thanks14:12
enikanorov_so the basic scenario test will execute the workflow where vip is created on the same subnet as pool's14:12
enikanorov_and then floating ip will be associated14:12
enikanorov_I expect this scenario is supported by all vendor solutions14:12
enikanorov_any questions/suggestions on the testing?14:12
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avishaybhi (sorry I am late)14:12
sgranhi, sorry I'm so late14:13
enikanorov_#topic progress with features14:13
*** openstack changes topic to "progress with features (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas subteam meeting)"14:13
enikanorov_hi folks14:13
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enikanorov_so, in I-2 neutron team will continue to focus on stability and bug fixing14:13
enikanorov_meanwhile we could develop our features and review them among ourselves14:13
enikanorov_so i'll start with myself14:14
enikanorov_i've published the very raw version of 'loadbalancer instance' on review14:15
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enikanorov_there are several importeam items yet to be done about that patch14:15
enikanorov_plus CLI and horizon14:15
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Vijay_Can you give the link/review number?14:15
enikanorov_feel free to comment but not that I'll appreciate design-level comments at the moment since the code is obviously not polished yet :)14:16
openstackenikanorov_: Error: "link" is not a valid command.14:16
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enikanorov_I'd like to see major features to have their initial implementations published during I-214:17
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enikanorov_just to familiarize some of core reviewers with the code14:18
Vijay_Can we switch to SSL14:18
sgranjust looking over the review now14:18
sgransorry, one moment before we do14:18
sgranI just want to clarify: loadbalancer instance means, running an openstack instance that provides a loadbalancer backend?14:19
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sgranor just creating the object, api and persistence models to encapsulate the idea of a loadbalancer14:20
sgranIt looks like the latter14:20
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Vijay_loadbalancer instance is a new entity/resource which is a wrapper around vip & pool14:20
enikanorov_the second one14:20
sgranyes, ok, good14:20
sgranjust so I understand :)14:20
sgrancarry on - SSL when you're ready :)14:20
enikanorov_ok, lets move to SSL feature14:20
iwamoto"instance" is a openstack term for a VM. so it might be confusing14:21
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Vijay_SSL, looks to have achieved some consensus to introduce certificate as a separte instance14:21
sgranyes, that was my confusion.  I'm also running loadbalancers inside openstack instances, so it's doubly confusing :)14:21
Vijay_*instance == resource14:21
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enikanorov_iwamoto: it is general-purpose word, not patented for 'VM', so it's ok, anyway the entity itself called 'loadbalancer'14:22
sgranVijay_: nod, it seems that making it a top level resource is probably a good idea14:22
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enikanorov_iwamoto: so 'instance' actually appears in commit message and comments only.14:23
sgranmy only question at this point would be if we want to start off with a provider attribute that can either be something like 'local' for certs just stored in the DB or 'barbican' or 'active directory' or whatever ?14:23
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sgranI don't know how forward thinking to be on that one14:23
Vijay_Yes that can be introduced.14:23
iwamotoI felt, in openstack context, "instance" generally refers to a vm14:23
sgransort of how the loadbalancer provider is modeled14:23
yamahata_is "container" instead of instance used at the summit?14:23
enikanorov_supporting 'providers' might be too complex for the first step to take14:23
Vijay_having that as a default value is fine14:23
enikanorov_yamahata_: it doesn't matter, the resource is named 'loadbalancer'14:24
Vijay_Provider is more involved work14:24
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sgranVijay_: yeah, I don't think we want to do the work for a provider now14:25
samuelbercoviciI think that after having the "loadbalancer" as an entitry we can look on how to move charachteristics such as provider, networkis, insertion model to it14:25
enikanorov_so I suggest the basic db-persistence will be implemented first14:25
sgranI was just wondering if we wanted to leave space in the API for it14:25
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* sgran nods enikanorov_ 14:25
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Vijay_for now then as everyone agrees, we will have certificate as a separate resource with certificate parameters stored in db14:26
samuelbercoviciI am also gathering feedback from custumers on this.14:26
iwamotoLoadbalancer resource would need some more attributes. for example an ID to distinguish vendor specific LB resource14:26
samuelbercoviciI mean on persisting SSL in DB14:27
enikanorov_iwamoto: lets discuss it at the end of the meeting. also feel free to add this as a comment on the review14:27
Vijay_that will help Sam14:27
iwamotoenikanorov_: i see14:27
samuelbercovicioverall, I think that eugene, proposal to have the certificate API as an extension/mixin14:27
samuelbercovicimight assist in introducing the basic capability with DB persiatnce14:27
samuelbercoviciand then if another "trust" sture exists, allow other backend implementation14:28
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samuelbercovicimy only concern is still that with the corrent implementation in the DB, the solution will not be acceptable14:29
samuelbercoviciand will not be adopted14:29
enikanorov_what do you mean?14:29
samuelbercoviciI am waiting for two custumers to come back to me on this so I can form an oppinion14:29
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samuelbercovicienikanorov_: I mean that a "real" custumer will not be willing to use this if the certificates are stoerd in the DB14:30
enikanorov_i see14:30
sgranthe aws api is rather basic for certs14:30
samuelbercoviciup until now, we only got response on ML from the gurdian. I hoped that we will get more "custumer" feedback.14:31
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samuelbercovicias I said, I am also checking with out custumers to see if this is ok.14:31
iwamotocould API be designed to allow both? to store certs in DB or to request user to re-supply certs when LBs fail14:31
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enikanorov_iwamoto: it may make sense to allow this14:31
enikanorov_may be have some flag or something14:32
samuelbercovicisgran: I am aware on this. as far as I remember AWS stored this inofrmation in some "secure" store14:32
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sgranI'm only talking about the API now14:32
sgranthe backend is an implementation detail14:32
sgran(maybe an important one, of course)14:32
Vijay_From top of my mind: It is not possible to allow both14:32
enikanorov_Vijay_: could you explain?14:33
enikanorov_if you have something like 'persistent' flag in your resource14:33
enikanorov_that it is used ad you have proposed14:33
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Vijay_when certificate is created as a separate resource and sending confidential parameters14:33
Vijay_which device will it be sent to?14:33
enikanorov_otherwise it needs to be resupplied each time14:33
sgranso I can see that UploadServerCertificate must store the certificate14:33
sgranbut SetLoadBalancerListenerSSLCertificate could take either a resource reference or data, right?14:33
enikanorov_Vijay_: i see14:34
enikanorov_seems you're right, obviousle14:34
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sgransamuelbercovici: I am the guy from the Guardian :)14:34
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Vijay_sgran: I think definitely the IAM service is storing the service separately outside of loadbalancer14:35
Vijay_because certificates can be reused14:35
samuelbercovicisgran: :-)14:35
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sgranVijay_: yes, I think so as well14:35
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sgranI don't know that we need to follow the same model to start with14:36
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sgranit might be that later this gets changed to default to downloading from Barbican or something14:36
Vijay_Sam, what kind of security is applied in the device to protect certificates.14:37
samuelbercoviciVijay_: not sure I understadn ur q14:38
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Vijay_for ex. Netscaler accepts certificates through API call or through file transfers14:38
samuelbercoviciVijay_: yes we also do14:39
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sgranSo does riverbed, yeah14:39
Vijay_if it is through APIs no loggin is done14:39
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Vijay_on the confidential params14:39
samuelbercoviciVijay_: do u mean log files or log into the device?14:39
Vijay_logs in the device14:39
Vijay_also when support bundle is downloaded, the keys are not packaged14:40
Vijay_for debugging purpose14:40
samuelbercoviciVijay_: the keys are transfered via secure channle or upload from sftp to the device14:40
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samuelbercovicithey are not logged anywhwre14:41
Vijay_do we have support bundle concept in openstack?14:42
Vijay_where all logs and db configurations are packaged?14:42
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enikanorov_not aware of this14:42
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Vijay_ok, if there is one, we should make sure that certificate params stored in db is not packaged.14:43
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Vijay_so i was wondering if we can make a list of things that devices do to protect certificates, we can "try" to make sure similar mechanisms are employed14:44
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sgransymmetric encryption is probably the simplest14:44
enikanorov_ok, I'd like to cover other topics as well14:45
enikanorov_any update on L7 rules?14:45
samuelbercoviciVijay_: this is excatly what I was trying to avoid. dfining a secure store for this feature might get a pushback as the need for "secure" store is not just here14:45
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avishaybOpen question: can the l7rule be reused in different l7policy or it can only be connected to 1 policy14:46
samuelbercoviciavishayb: L7 Policies are resued. I think that the rule is not reused14:47
samuelbercovicion many occasions it is too granular14:47
enikanorov_samuelbercovici: agree14:47
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avishaybok - I will update the wiki page. and the policy - vip relations are 1:many14:48
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samuelbercoviciits actualy n:m14:49
samuelbercoviciVIP can have a few policies14:49
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samuelbercovicia policy can be used by multiple vips14:49
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evgeny_fedoruk_Regarding other topics, I have a change for a review14:50
enikanorov_so i'd suggest it's done with VipPoolAssociation14:50
Vijay_Avishay, as far as i can see, rule are already created for a policy.14:50
Vijay_neutron lb-create-l7rule rule2 --attribute-type path --attribute-value "/shopping/.*" --action SELECT-POOL --policy p114:50
enikanorov_VipPoolAssociation(vip_id, pool_id, policy_id)14:50
enikanorov_samuelbercovici: avishayb: does it make sense to you?14:51
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enikanorov_(in case policy_id refers to the policy that has 'pool select' action)14:52
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samuelbercovicienikanorov_: we also would like to define arule with a "reject" action. in this case there is no pool_id14:53
Vijay_is there a case for default pool?14:53
enikanorov_samuelbercovici: i see14:53
Vijay_*OR* always true rule + policy14:53
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enikanorov_Vijay_: default pool must be there14:54
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enikanorov_it will be association without policy_id14:54
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samuelbercoviciVijay_: "default" pool acn either be adressed here. Or can be addressed as a unique different memeber (as is implemented today).14:55
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Vijay_Hmm, Sam, then it will mix with default loadbalancer instance14:56
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enikanorov_Vijay_: how it is mixing with default instance?14:56
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enikanorov_you create a vip specifying pool_id, it becomes default pool for the vip14:57
Vijay_Sam: can you explain " Or can be addressed as a unique different memeber (as is implemented today)."?14:57
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enikanorov_if you want to attach another pool to the same vip - you need to do it via l7 rule14:57
enikanorov_i think Sam meant that vip will have pool_id attribute pointing to the default pool14:58
samuelbercovicias we have 3 more minutes, we can take it offline to ML and the WIKIs14:58
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enikanorov_but I'd argue that it's better to avoid that14:58
samuelbercoviciis there anything else for the genda?14:58
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enikanorov_not much, lets discuss everything else offline or on #openstack-neutron14:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Dec  5 14:59:18 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:59
openstackMinutes (text):
enikanorov_thanks everyone14:59
evgeny_fedoruk_I have changes for review14:59
samuelbercovicienikanorov_: there is a proposal to manage the "default" VIP <--> Pools relationship in an N:M14:59
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enikanorov_evgeny_fedoruk_: which one?14:59
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evgeny_fedoruk_It's for "neutron LBaaS entities quota extension" BP. #link
evgeny_fedoruk_Contains 4 changes. You are welcome to review15:00
enikanorov_evgeny_fedoruk_: ok15:00
enikanorov_samuelbercovici: could you explain?15:00
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mtreinish#startmeeting qa17:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Dec  5 17:01:43 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:01
mtreinishhi who do we have here today?17:02
mtreinish^^ Today's agenda17:02
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mtreinishlet's get started17:02
mtreinish#topic Meeting time change proposal17:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Meeting time change proposal (Meeting topic: qa)"17:03
dkranzafazekas: meeting17:03
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mtreinishso I sent out an email to the ml about this17:03
sdaguemtreinish: yep, thanks for that17:03
mtreinishwe need to change the meeting time, I suggested 2200 utc17:03
mtreinishwhich is a bit difficult for people in Europe17:03
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sdagueI just wanted to make sure to highlight it to people so they got on that thread if they weren't already17:04
mtreinishso I was thinking we could alternate between this time and then (on Thursday)17:04
giulivomtreinish, 22utc is good for me though (europe)17:04
mtreinishgiulivo: ok cool17:04
giulivois other "europe" against it?17:04
mtreinishI'd prefer to keep one time17:04
sdaguegiulivo: mkoderer said it was going to be pretty late for him17:04
mtreinishmkoderer was hesitant17:04
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dkranzmkoderer was not thrilled but said he could do it17:04
giulivooh okay sorry17:04
giulivoafazekas ?17:05
dkranzWhat about 1 hour earlier?17:05
mtreinishit's too early for Japan then17:05
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dkranzI thought they said they could do 6am17:05
sdaguedkranz: it also ends up on top of the nova meeting then, right?17:05
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dkranzsdague: Don't know17:05
giulivoyet, isn't it three of us in europe? afazaks will make the difference17:05
dkranzBut 22:00 is midnight in europe most of the year17:06
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mtreinishwell anyway we can take this back out to the list, and do a final vote next week17:06
giulivodkranz, indeed it is late but altenating meetings means we would loose 1 in 2 anyway ... will midnight be better or worst than that?17:07
sdagueyep, I'm honestly going to be more +1 on oscillating just because it won't discourage new .eu people17:07
mtreinishsdague: I was just worried about the disconnect then17:07
dkranzI agree. And if giulivo wants to go to the other at midnight that is ok17:07
dkranzBut it is a tough call17:07
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dkranzMaking it 1 doesn't help if people don't show up17:07
afazekasgiulivo: I will try to solve to attending the meeting at whatever time17:07
mtreinishhow about next week we do the 22 UTC and start oscillating?17:08
sdaguemtreinish: that works for me17:08
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sdaguewant to propose that back to the list?17:08
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dkranzSounds reasonable17:08
mtreinishsdague: yeah will do17:08
mtreinishand I'll update the wikis17:08
adalbasit can start oscillating and then check if stick to a single time17:08
mtreinishif it doesn't work well we can always revisit it again17:09
dkranz22:00 is the best fallback we have so +117:09
mtreinish#action mtreinish to update meeting times to oscilate between current time and 2200 UTC17:09
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mtreinishok then lets move on17:09
mtreinish#topic Getting additional folks signed up as point people17:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Getting additional folks signed up as point people (Meeting topic: qa)"17:09
mtreinishsdague: this is your's17:09
sdagueso basically I'm realizing that there are too many discreet things to keep an eye on in the QA program for me to handle it all well17:10
sdagueor any future PTL17:10
sdagueso I'd like to carve off point people for specific things17:10
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sdaguewhich isn't that they'd own all the work, they would just be the point person to make sure we stay on top of it, and harass folks when we don't17:11
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sdagueI figured 3 things that could be carved off this way are: meeting management, blueprint triage, and bug triage17:11
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sdaguemtreinish volunteered for meeting management (hence why he's running the meeting and handling the time change)17:11
sdaguebut I'd still like to get volunteers for the others17:12
dkranzI think the problem is the things you are carving off are things that in most engineering orgs are done by managers. We should recruit managers to do them.17:12
sdaguedkranz: well our community doesn't work that way17:12
sdaguepeople that do the work, get the trust17:12
dkranzsdague: Why not? If a company wants to donate manager time for this...17:12
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sdaguedkranz: ok. But we don't see those folks as contributors today17:13
dkranzsdague: I know17:13
dkranzsdague: But we have not tried to get them either17:13
sdagueso I don't think that's a productive direction for the conversation17:13
sdaguebecause honestly, point people need to be folks the group trusts17:13
dkranzsdague: ok, i'll stop here. But I don't know why being a good hacker makes you more trustworthy at bug triage17:14
sdaguebecause if they don't trust them, then it's sort of useless17:14
dkranzI'm not talking some random manager but some one who is engaged.17:15
afazekaslooks like we still have bugs in Fix Committed status, does anyone has objection against moving them to the Fix released status ?17:15
giulivoafazekas, I wanted to ask that too, that's a +1 from me17:15
sdaguedkranz: I'm not saying it does. I'm saying there are no non developer candidates in our community that are doing work17:15
dkranzThat was supposed to happen automiatically but there was a window where it didn't17:15
mtreinishafazekas: that's kinda off topic, but they should be moved (we do it by default now)17:15
dkranzsdague: RIght. I just had some idea to try changing that17:15
sdagueso... this is exactly why we need a point person :)17:15
dkranzsdague: Agreed. And it should be one of us.17:16
sdaguebecause now the conversation went off into the weeds on bp details, which have gotten lost, because there wasn't one17:16
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sdagueor more specifically, the person was me, but it's about #12 down my priority list17:16
sdagueso effectively will never get done17:16
giulivoso I won't bother, but I don't like this "single point of failure" thing17:17
adalbassdague, do you expect this point person to be amongst the core people, or not necessarily?17:17
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sdagueadalbas: not necessarily, especially for bugs17:17
dkranzlet's separate bug triage from blueprints because they are a different magnitude of task17:18
sdagueand different levels of trust needed I think17:18
giulivobut my long term idea is to do some hard work now and later block new blueprints to not find ourselves in the same situation again17:18
sdagueso our bug group is open, anyone can triage, so I really think any volunteer on bug triage point person would be welcomed17:18
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afazekasThe problem with random failure bugs, in most cases we cannot do anything with them in tempest, how to handle them ?17:18
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giulivoafazekas, that's why I'd drop non triaged17:19
sdagueafazekas: ok, again, moving into the details17:19
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sdaguebecause the point person would get to make some of those calls17:19
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sdaguegiulivo: so it sounds like you are actually taking a run at the blueprint cleanup anyway17:19
adalbassdague, could you point what the bug triage person would be doing (responsibilities)?17:19
giulivosdague, hehehe yes I'd like to indeed!17:20
sdagueyou want to be the point person for that for now17:20
sdaguegiulivo: I think yuo'd be great at it :)17:20
sdagueadalbas: QA bug czar (Spearheading Tempest Bug triage)17:20
sdague  * focus on driving down Tempest bug queue to a useful thing17:20
sdague  * nag about top QA bugs in tempest meeting17:20
sdague  * organize bug triage days regularly to help with this17:20
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giulivobut really, why do we need new blueprints if not discussed here or by a core? does "closing" blueprints look so terrible?17:21
sdaguegiulivo: I don't think so. Again we just need someone to stay on top of it and make sure it doesn't get out of hand17:22
dkranzThat is the direction nova is going in17:22
sdaguehint hint, you sound like a great volunteer for this :)17:22
giulivodkehn, you mean closing "new blueprints to trusted" ?17:23
giulivodkranz, ^^17:23
mtreinishok, well lets move to the next topic now17:23
mtreinishsdague can pester people to volunteer after the meeting17:23
dkranzgiulivo: No, just the idea of exerting more control over accepted blueprints sooner17:23
sdagueyeh, I guess we still aren't getting volunteers on it17:23
adalbassdague, if anyone else from the core team are not able to be the point for that and if you are all ok with that, I would be ok to help with the bug triage thing17:23
mtreinish#topic Blueprints17:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)"17:24
sdagueadalbas: yes, +1. I'm totally happy if yuo wanted to lead the bug triage effort17:24
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mtreinishoops maybe jumped the gun a bit there17:24
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sdaguemtreinish: nope, it's all good17:24
sdaguelet's move on17:25
mtreinishare there any outstanding blueprints that need attention?17:25
andreafI have
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andreafit's something I suggested we could do at the summit, sdague mentioned it would be a good idea, so I started working on it17:26
mtreinishandreaf: ok, cool17:26
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giulivoso I'm moving that into accepted17:26
mtreinishandreaf: so just need the bp approved?17:26
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mtreinishdo you have a WIP up?17:26
sdaguegiulivo: +117:27
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mtreinishgiulivo: you just volunteered...17:27
andreafmtreinish: I only have it locally, I can upload  a WIP17:27
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mtreinishandreaf: ok cool, that would help my understanding of what you're doing there17:28
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sdagueandreaf: cool, would be great17:28
mtreinishbut it sounds like everyone is on board17:28
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andreafsdague, mtreinish: ok cool17:29
mtreinishok are there any other bp status updates that people have17:29
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dkranzmtreinish: Just that the negative test stuff is not really moving quickly17:29
dkranzmtreinish: There will probably not be any progress until after the new year17:30
sdaguedkranz: is there a bp registered for that one?17:30
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dkranzsdague: I thought there was but I'll check17:30
giulivodkranz, , ?17:30
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adalbasdkranz, i m working with kein omich and others to get the separate files for negative tests17:31
dkranzI've been swamped and Marc is out until new year17:31
adalbasthe patches are added on that blueprint17:31
sdagueso we should probably make 2 blueprints17:31
dkranzadalbas: Yes, but that is not what this is about17:31
sdagueadalbas: can you make another blueprint on the separation?17:31
dkranzThere should be 217:31
adalbassdague, dkranz , yes17:32
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sdaguewe'll put them both into an approv state17:32
adalbasi can separate them17:32
adalbasi ll line that up with the others working on that17:32
giulivosdague, adalbas I can draft and approve it17:32
giulivoyou meant to have two one for "autogeneration" and one for "separating negative files" right17:32
adalbasyes giulivo17:33
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mtreinishok, are there any other blueprints we need to discuss, otherwise let's move on to the next topic17:33
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mtreinish#topic Neutron testing17:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron testing (Meeting topic: qa)"17:34
mtreinishok mlavalle your name is on this one17:34
mlavalleOver the past few days I've been conducting a gap analysis for API tests17:35
mlavalleI put the results in the API section of
mlavalleI've finished with core and l3 api's and plan to continue with L4 - L7 over the next few days17:36
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sdagueso are we at the point of turning on the full runs non voting on normal (non experimental) neutron runs?17:36
mlavalleI will also create a wiki page for new contributors, walking them through the process of writing api tests for Neutron17:36
sdaguei.e. how many fails are we down to now?17:37
mtreinishsdague: I thought we weren't going to do that until parallel worked17:37
sdagueah, right, it will get too long17:37
mlavalleThat wiki will be done early next week and when it';s done i'll advertise it in the ML17:37
mtreinishmlavalle: yeah, that would be helpful. You've got ~52 tests listed there right?17:37
sdaguemlavalle: great17:37
mlavalleLast nigh I made a little change to the Neutron wiki
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mlavalleLook at the Related Projects section close to the top17:38
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mlavalleI am also attending every week the Neutron IRC meeting, so I keep them abreast of what is going on with QA17:40
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sdagueso do we know where we stand on parallel17:40
mtreinishsalv-orlando: ^^^17:40
afazekasDo we able to create a shared network in parallel safe way? Most of tempest test assumes there is only one network visible in the tenant17:40
sdaguei.e. agent rewrite17:40
mlavallesalv-orlando is working on several patches to Neutron to enable that17:41
mlavallehe sent an email to the ML a couple of day ago with an update on the status17:41
salv-orlandoI know where we stand. To cut a long story short we have fixed the OVS agent, which does not have anymore tremendous lag for wiring ports, but..17:41
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salv-orlando… there is also an issue with the DHCP agent, which takes about 40 seconds in updating the hosts file under load and this causes a failure since the cirros vms send 1 dhcp discover per minute17:42
salv-orlandoI am working on that too. So far I am pushing all the stuff I have in a single patch, where I run the parallel job17:43
salv-orlandoas soon as I have 10 green runs in a row I will push the patches for review with unit tests and stuff17:43
salv-orlandoend of the updated.17:43
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mtreinishsalv-orlando: ok, very cool17:43
mlavallesalv-orlando: based on my work with bug 1251448, we also need to worry when we devete ports17:43
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1251448 in neutron "BadRequest: Multiple possible networks found, use a Network ID to be more specific. " [High,New]
salv-orlandoand btw, I reckon that with armax's fix for tempest not relinquishing public IPs + another proposed fix for making the public network a /24 we shall be enable to enable full isolation17:44
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salv-orlandomlavalle: update my outside of the meeting with this issue, please17:44
mlavallesalv-orlando: cool17:44
mtreinishsalv-orlando: ok, when that goes through let me know and we can push through turning that on again17:44
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mtreinishis there anything else on the neutron testing front?17:45
mlavallenot on my side17:45
mtreinishok then let's move on17:45
mtreinish#topic Critical Reviews17:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:46
mtreinishdoes anyone have any reviews they'd like to bring up?17:46
mtreinishI actually have one today:
dkranzmtreinish: I don't think we should discuss it now but please look at
dkranzmtreinish: which is a disupte about parallelism and tenant isolation requirements17:47
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mtreinishdkranz: ok, I'll look at it after the meeting17:47
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mtreinishon the review I posted it has 2 -1's but I responded to them with no response so if someone else could take a look at them I'd appreciate it17:48
mtreinish(the -1s probably mean that no one looks at it)17:48
mtreinishare there any other reviews to bring up?17:48
sdagueit would actually be nice to move those forward, they have been there for a while17:48
sdagueand remain about 1/3 of our queue17:49
mlavallemtreinish: Over he weekend I will submit a patch to add tenant isolation to the Neutron base test. We will need to approve that quickly to enable new contributors to work on Neutron API tests. I'll ping you when it's in Gerrit17:49
sdagueoh, only 20% now17:49
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dkranzsdague: I have been reviewing these17:49
mtreinishmlavalle: that is already up on gerrit17:49
dkranzsdague: And will continue and hopefully be done by tomorrow17:49
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mlavalleoh, so maybe someone picked it up from the ether pad…. great!17:49
sdagueI guess the only other issue is we really need to not be +2ing heat patches that we can't run17:49
sdagueI've been -1ing the stuff that modifies heat slow jobs17:50
sdaguebecause that doesn't run at all yet17:50
dkranzsdague: The problem is that they don't run due to an infrastructure issue17:50
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sdaguehopefully the f20 release next week will let stevebaker get the infrastructure working17:50
dkranzsdague: Tempest tests are a high priority for that team17:50
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dkranzsdague: I hope so17:50
sdaguedkranz: then getting the infrastructure working to run them, or running 3rdparty testing needs to be a priority17:51
dkranzsdague: If not then we either have to accept them or force people out of upstream17:51
dkranzsdague: I'm not really sure what the blocker is17:51
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dkranzsdague: I'll inquire about that and get a status17:51
mtreinishdkranz: we can't really add tests until we can confirm they work. We've had issues with that in the paste17:51
sdagueso we actually went through it on IRC17:51
sdaguedisk-image-builder needs pip 1.5 to install17:52
sdaguewhich is not yet released17:52
dkranzmtreinish: We have, but this is a little different because they only run in the expewrimental queue17:52
sdaguebecause they need real guests17:52
dkranzmtreinish: ANd won't be lit up until they all run17:52
sdaguedkranz: no it's not different17:52
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sdaguethe point is we'd have a ton of tests that we have no proof in the community they ever ran17:52
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sdagueit's the same reason we don't accept tests that start skipped17:53
mtreinishdkranz, sdague: lets save this for after the meeting. We're down to 7 min. and dkranz still has a topic on the list17:53
dkranzsdague: I don't completely agree but let's see if it can be resolved soon and made moot17:53
mtreinish#topic How can we make sure reviews don't slide >1 week17:53
*** openstack changes topic to "How can we make sure reviews don't slide >1 week (Meeting topic: qa)"17:53
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dkranzmtreinish: I think I can withdraw my topic for now since we are doing ok17:54
mtreinishdkranz: you're up17:54
mtreinishdkranz: heh, ok cool17:54
mtreinishthen let's open the floor17:54
dkranzWe should just all make sure to focus on old reviews first17:54
mtreinish#topic open discussion17:54
dkranzeven thought it is a pain17:54
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: qa)"17:54
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mtreinishdkranz: yeah I always start at the bottom17:54
dkranzmtreinish: Question about neutron17:54
mtreinishdkranz: ok, shoot17:54
sdagueyeh, I do as well. though I'm trying to actually start with my review list, so I'm not missing coming back to things17:55
dkranzHow many of us are comfrotable reviewing neutron complex scenarios for functional correctness?17:55
dkranzI'm not17:55
sdaguedkranz: I typically try to ask someone from neutron core to comment17:55
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mtreinishdkranz: yeah the same with me, I'm not super familiar with it at this point17:55
mlavalledkranz: I can help with it as well17:56
dkranzsdague: That is the right answer but it might help to have a slightly more formal way to spread the load on the neutron team for this17:56
sdaguethat's actually on my list after sorting out volunteers on the tempest items17:56
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dkranzsdague: ok, great17:56
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dkranzsdague: I don't want reviews to slide because we are not comfortable pushing them forward17:56
sdaguedkranz: so I think the actual solution there is getting one or more point people in each core project that are there to help17:56
dkranzsdague: Right17:56
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giulivosdague dkranz +1 from on that17:57
dkranzsdague: That's the only way that scales17:57
giulivo*from me17:57
sdaguewhich I'm going to run on, once I have volunteers signed up for the tempest tasks. We need our house in order first before we ask others for things17:57
dkranzsdague: Never mind our three new projects :)17:57
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malinidkranz, sdague: o/  potential marconi-tempest contributor snooping17:58
sdaguemalini: great17:58
sdagueok, we're about to loose the room17:58
mtreinishyeah, lets end it here for today17:58
mtreinishthanks everyone17:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Dec  5 17:59:07 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Dec  5 18:00:26 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:00
bdpayneHi OSSG18:00
bdpayneLet's start with a rollcall18:00
bdpayne#topic rollcall18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:00
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paulmoPaul Montgomery, Rackspace (new guy in OSSG from Project Solum)18:01
bdpaynewelcome paulmo18:01
paulmoThanks; glad to see the great security guide provided. :)18:01
bdpayneanyone else here today?18:02
bknudsondoes new project require update to security guide?18:02
bdpayneok, small group today18:02
paulmoI'm still reviewing the guide but I suspect Solum may have some addition requirements.18:02
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bdpaynebknudson I think that's a strong "it depends"18:02
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bdpayne#topic today's agenda18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "today's agenda (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:02
nkinderI'm here18:03
bdpayneSo I'm recovering from both Thanksgiving and being sick this week :-)18:03
bdpayneSo I don't have too much news to report18:03
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bdpayneAnything specific that others would like to discuss today?18:03
nkinderI have a few topics.18:03
bdpaynenkinder sure, please go ahead and list them here and we can get to them in turn18:04
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nkinderOne quick one is that I have an OSSN ready for a glance issue, but wanted to know if anyone else from OSSG needs to review it18:04
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bdpaynebest to have at least two other people review18:04
nkinderThe other is an effort to get a cross-project set of security guidelines established.18:04
bdpaynejust to keep quality high and check for random typos and such18:04
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paulmo+1 nkinder18:05
bdpaynegreat, I'll add that to the agenda18:05
bdpayneanything else?18:05
nkindernot from me18:05
paulmoI have a few questions but I'm not sure if this is the right forum18:05
bdpaynesure, sounds like it's a quiet day... perhaps we can field some questions at the end?18:06
paulmoSure; sounds great!18:06
bdpaynewe typically run for 30 min18:06
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bdpayne#topic OSSG news18:06
*** openstack changes topic to "OSSG news (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:06
bdpayneSo the main news I have to report this week is that we have three people signed up to be book editors18:06
bdpaynethe team is Ben DeBont, Sriram Subramanian and David Mortman18:07
bdpayneclearly anyone is encourage to edit the book18:07
bdpayneit's as simple as doing a PR against the docbook source for the book18:08
nkindergreat!  Are they dividing up chapters to review?18:08
bdpaynebut, these three people will be taking the lead on moving foward with the overall improvements to the book18:08
bdpayneI'm not sure how they are splitting it up or approaching it18:08
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bknudsonis editing fixing typos or is it also to make content clearer?18:08
bdpaynebknudson, all of the above18:08
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elonothing on my end… I'll have soem update to the book to publish in the new few weeks18:09
bdpayneso I've asked them to take the lead on this, and I'll ask them to check in here at the meetings and on the mailing list periodically18:09
bdpayneelo sounds good, perhaps you can sync with the book editing team wrt to your updates18:10
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eloWill do.18:10
bknudsonI did submit a few bugs when reading through it18:10
bdpayne#topic cross project security guidelines18:10
*** openstack changes topic to "cross project security guidelines (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:10
bdpaynetake it away nkinder18:10
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nkinderI'd like to have our group help to establish a set of cross-project security guidelines.18:11
nkinderThis needs to come from all of the projects as well as us18:11
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nkinderI floated the idea on the dev list, and there was interest from som eof the Solum folks (one reason paulmo is here)18:12
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nkinderI've talked with some of the keystone devs as well, and there is interest there.18:12
nkinderBasically, I think we need a security representative from each of the core projects so we can brainstorm and come up with the guidelines.18:13
bdpayneyeah, this sounds like a good idea18:13
nkinderI was going to reach out to the PTLs in their meeting next monday18:13
bdpayneperhaps would be a good place to collaborate with some of the OWASP people too?18:13
nkindersure, makes sense18:14
paulmoWould the goal be to make security requirements or guidelines?18:14
nkinderpaulmo: well, eventually a bit of both would be good IMHO18:14
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bdpaynemy take... would be that we start with guidelines18:14
nkinderI don't think we're currently really in a position to dictate requirements.18:15
nkinderbdpayne: +118:15
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bdpayneand then set a low bar with turning some into requirements... complete with CI that enforces it, if possible18:15
bdpayneand then slowly dial it up18:15
paulmoSounds like a good plan to me.18:15
nkinderIf we can get a general consensus from representatives on the projects, it shoudln't be hard to have them be spoken guidelines.18:15
nkindersorry, requirements18:15
joel-coffmanbdpayne: +118:15
bdpayneso this sounds nice18:16
bknudsonare these guidelines like the length of keys and ciphers?18:16
bknudsonvalidating inputs18:16
bdpayneI know that there was some talk about security testing before the summit... might be nice to check in with those guys and see if/how that's coming along18:16
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bdpaynethis could certainly go in many directions18:17
bdpaynedid you have specific ideas for the guidelines nkinder?18:17
bknudsonuse of random number generators18:17
nkinderbknudson: yes, I think that sort of thing, plus general developer best practice (zeroing memory that stores passwords/keys, etc.)18:17
bknudsonencrypting passwords in Keystone's SQL backend :(18:17
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bdpayneperhaps examples of good security patterns (and ones to avoid)18:17
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bdpayneperhaps encouragement to use common security sensitive code (e.g., OSLO rootwrap)18:18
nkinderbdpayne: I have ideas about areas that should be addressed, but I expect many folks from the projects will have ideas too.18:18
bdpaynestuff like that18:18
bdpayneso I envision a massive, distributed brainstorm18:18
paulmonkinder: I'm willing to help out on this18:18
bdpayneand then perhaps a small team to make sense of it all and make some proposals18:18
nkinderpaulmo: Great!  I have your name down on my list already. :)18:18
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bdpaynenkinder I'd be willing to help as well18:19
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nkinderbdpayne: ok, great.  Let me see what interest I get from the PTLs next week, and we'll go from there.18:19
bdpaynesounds good18:20
nkinderThis will also help identify areas where things should be improved.18:20
nkinderwhere we don't meet guidelines, etc.18:20
bdpayne#topic open discussion / questions18:20
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion / questions (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:20
bdpaynepaulmo you had some questions?18:20
bdpaynealso, anything else people want to discuss?18:20
paulmoSure!  I see that there is a SecurityImpact Gerrit tag, are there any code comment formats for potential security issues that devs can put in their code?18:21
bdpayneright now it is just free form18:21
paulmo(I'd like the team to be able to mark potential issues for research later while they are coding rather than trying to find them later if possible.  Just seeing if there is an OpenStack or OSSG guide for that.)18:21
bknudsonpaulmo: I've never seen one.18:21
bdpayneso devs can use the tag, and that sends an email to the openstack-security list18:22
bdpayneand then someone from OSSG (ideally) will go to review the code18:22
bdpayneso any other details could just be placed as part of the commit msg18:22
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paulmoOk, we'll make up a comment tag for Solum and use SecurityImpact for reviews.18:22
bdpaynesounds good18:23
nkinderbdpayne: It'd be nice to have some way to sign off that the OSSG has reviewed an issue.18:23
bdpayneyeah, not sure if gerrit supports that18:23
paulmoNext - Has anyone discussed a method of identifying confidential data in Oslo logging?  This seems to be a source of credential leaks lately.18:23
bdpaynethat being "if securityimpact tag, then require +1 from OSSG to merge"18:23
bdpayneso there has been an effort lately to cleanup the logs18:24
bdpaynethis goes beyond oslo and includes pretty much all of the projects18:24
bdpayneand by cleanup, I mean remove things like passwords from them18:24
bknudsonpaulmo: there's code in oslo-logging that checks for "password", I think.18:24
bdpayneI think that people are generally relying on manual inspection at this point18:24
paulmoI would like to find that information.  We have a blueprint in solum to try to head this issue off early:
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bdpaynebut, yeah, that would be good to automate some more18:25
bdpayneit's worth noting that this has been a cause of disagreement18:25
paulmoWould this team make recommendations or would I go work with Oslo folks directly?18:25
bdpayneI've seen people arguing for having security sensitive stuff (tokens, passwords, etc) in debug level logs18:25
bdpayneI personally disagree with that approach, but hey18:25
bknudsonwhen keystone is configured for debug it does insecure things.18:26
bdpaynepaulmo I think that if the security guideance stuff comes together, that could be nice place for this18:26
nkinderbdpayne: +118:26
paulmoI  was thinking of a boil the frog approach.  Mark confidential data (and exceptions, espcially database exceptions) in the log with a tag (basically a list of dictionaries) to hold confidential data.   Then filter it on the backend so users don't see it.18:27
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bdpayneI think I'd need more context to comment on that specific approach18:27
bdpayneperhaps a good disucssion for the ML18:27
paulmoYes, sorry, just an elevator pitch.  I can discuss more when ready or ML. :)18:28
bdpayneany other questions?18:28
paulmoI think that is all for now.  Thanks for letting me take the floor for so long.18:28
nkinderAnyone care to review my OSSN so I can publish it? :) -
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1226078 in ossn "Glance allows user to create images and add other tenants as members (CVE-2013-4354)" [Medium,In progress]18:28
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bdpaynenkinder I'll take a look later today18:28
nkinderbdpayne: thanks18:28
bdpayneok, so that's all for today18:29
bdpaynesee everyone next week18:29
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:29
openstackMeeting ended Thu Dec  5 18:29:26 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:29
openstackMinutes (text):
nkinderthanks guys!18:29
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malini1No OSSG meeting today??19:11
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bknudsonmalini1: OSSG meeting was an hour earlier.19:12
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harlowja#startmeeting state-management20:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Dec  5 20:00:58 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'state_management'20:01
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harlowjahowdy folks!20:01
iv_mhi there20:01
harlowjahi there20:01
harlowjasooo i guess lets get started20:01
harlowja#topic action-items20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "action-items (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:02
harlowjano action items, haha20:02
harlowja#link :)20:02
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harlowjabeen 2 weeks, so let me know if i missed anything :), don't think so20:03
harlowja#topic current integration20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "current integration (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:03
harlowjaso this is a bigger topic :)20:03
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harlowjai think cinder is going through, thx anastasia and iv_m and folks :)20:03
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harlowjathat should let others get started on there reviews, victor (and others)20:04
harlowjaand i think anastasia has a couple followup reviews also20:04
haruka_I filed blueprint because I couldn't find same topic.20:05
iv_mi think we are all waiting to get that merged20:05
harlowjahmmm, what was the blueprint for haruka_ ?20:05
harlowja#link (is where i've been connecting everything together) - if u want to put a link there20:05
harlowjak, thx haruka_ added to etherpad20:06
haruka_thank you20:06
harlowjanp, launchpad doesn't have such a good way to connect everything as releated to taskflow20:06
harlowjaso that etherpad has been serving this purpose20:06
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harlowjaiv_m i'll see if i can bug the cinder folks for that review later20:07
harlowjasee if we can get them to approve it20:07
harlowjasince its got the +220:07
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harlowja#link is also being worked on by the mistral folks20:08
harlowjahowdy MikeSpreitzer20:08
harlowjaand lots of other blueprints :)20:09
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harlowjaiv_m i think u are working through (or part of it?)20:09
iv_myou're typing faster than me)20:10
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harlowjacool, haruka_ the steps in above bp glance-snapshot-tasks seem like they would be applicable for your create-snapshot-task-flow (and others also)20:11
iv_mand aslo Alexander Gorodnev is helping me there20:11
iv_mnow we're still at #0 of that bp -- understanding and documenting20:11
harlowjanikhil__ and markwash maybe can help ensure sanity there ;)20:11
harlowjaiv_m totally understood, #0 is a big part of it20:11
nikhil__oh snap, that reminds me to take a look at the bp :)20:12
iv_mmost of actual snapshoting workflow happens inside single nova's driver method -- so looks like we'll have to adjust driver api20:12
harlowjaya, the blackbox problem20:12
harlowjahard to make a blackbox reliable20:12
harlowja#link (for those who have no idea what i am talking about, haha)20:13
harlowjanikhil__ if u get some time that would be super appreciated20:13
nikhil__sure harlowja (I've the link open in my browser, just need to visit it)20:14
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iv_m#action iv_m agorodnev document nova's snapshoting flow and what we want to do with it20:14
harlowjai might see if boris-42 wants to take on, if not i'll do that, gotta catch up with him on that20:14
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harlowjahe's pretty familar with nova (so thats good)20:14
harlowja#action harlowja catch up with boris-42 on and if he wants to own it (or should i just own it)20:15
harlowjathe other new one for this week is
harlowjaalso working with boris-42 there to see how it might fit20:16
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harlowjafeel free to add any comments there :)20:16
harlowjaor #openstack-rally to20:16
harlowjanikhil__ for glance itself, are u (or other?) still working on the async stuff20:17
harlowjai think with the work @ (ongoing) taskflow gets closer to what glance desires20:17
nikhil__harlowja: yeah, we'r actively working on it20:17
nikhil__3 patches went in and bunch are to follow20:17
harlowja still is the 'root' blueprint for all those right?20:18
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harlowjathe dependency tree on that one really looks like a tree :)20:18
nikhil__yeah, that sounds right20:19
harlowjaloopsided christmas tree, ha20:19
nikhil__that looks scary20:19
nikhil__I prefer to not look at it20:19
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harlowjak, np, i'll look at whats in glance, and maybe write up some ideas for taskflow (or in the future how said glance concepts might translate to taskflow)20:19
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harlowjathx nikhil__ !20:20
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nikhil__harlowja: sounds good20:20
nikhil__will keep looking into that MP20:21
harlowjathx much20:21
harlowjaand current integration blockers that we can help resolve that people are facing (the cinder 0.1.1 should unblock folks)20:21
harlowja*any current20:22
harlowjaif not, thats ok to (even better, ha)20:22
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harlowja#topic taskflow features20:24
*** openstack changes topic to "taskflow features (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:24
harlowjajust a little overview of what i know about being worked on in taskflow (others feel free to add)20:24
harlowja1) zookeeper work (by me)20:24
harlowjai was thinking i can make a little demo of this for folks, since it might not be obvious how neat it is :)20:24
iv_mwould be great20:25
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harlowjamaybe some little tutorial or something20:25
harlowjawith some code20:25
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harlowjacool, iv_m i'll see what i can do :)20:25
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harlowjasomething that others can pretty easily also try20:26
iv_mi was thinking to give it really serious and hard review soon, so being able to see it in action and play with it would help20:26
harlowja#action harlowja make little tutorial/example (other) for zookeeper review20:26
harlowja2) the oslo.messaging worker distributed neato stuff - (and review WIP @
harlowja^ above i think is waiting a little bit on oslo.messaging being a little more library like20:27
iv_mwe talked with Stanislav (who did most of that work) and decided to put it off a bit20:28
iv_mbecause of oslo.messaging20:28
harlowjaya, understandable20:28
iv_mnow we're looking on what interesting things we can do using kombu directly20:28
harlowjakk, #link (and a few others) are underway20:29
harlowjato try to make it more python3 compat, and oslo.cfg independent...20:29
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harlowja#link (for some more python3 stuff)20:30
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harlowjalooking forward to see what that becomes (its a tough challenge)20:31
harlowjaiv_m for the reversion strategy stuff (which i think u are working on) is there any recommended link u have for that20:31
iv_mnot yet, sorry20:32
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harlowjaall good20:32
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harlowjaso one of the other ideas that happened yesterday (still being baked, not concrete)  is
harlowjaif people want to add any thoughts, questions, comments on there that'd be great20:33
harlowjahopefully the use-case is clear (the ideas on how to solve might not be, if not, feel free to speak up)20:34
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harlowjaso just throwing that out there (feel free to check it out)20:34
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haruka_ok. I will check it.20:35
harlowjasounds great20:35
harlowjaany taskflow features that need any discussion, i think changbl is working on zookeeper stuff as well20:36
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changblyes, working on it20:37
harlowjasweet, thx changbl  :)20:37
harlowjalet me know if u get stuck, willing to help out wherever needed!20:37
iv_mjust a quick annonce -- me and Anastasia started work on refactoring engine internals, which is needed for worker-based engine, help in reversion strategies and may bring support of multiprocessing executors20:38
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iv_mtoo early to say anything, maybe next time we'll have something cool to show)20:39
harlowjaalright, lets see what happens there ;)20:39
harlowjajust internals i hope :)20:39
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iv_mya, we are not intending to break anything (like api) right now20:40
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harlowjathx iv_m , eagerly awaits next week now, haha20:41
harlowjaany other new taskflow features/goodies that people want to talk about?20:43
harlowjacan just switch to open-dicuss for anything else20:43
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harlowja#topic open-discuss20:44
*** openstack changes topic to "open-discuss (Meeting topic: state-management)"20:44
harlowjaiv_m will your internal engine work have ideas from (out of curosity)20:44
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harlowjaif its to early to tell, thats fine20:45
iv_mno, it started a bit earlier20:46
harlowja is an interesting read for folks also (the future of python concurrency in a way)20:46
harlowja*or maybe the future (still hard to tell, ha)20:47
iv_myeah, it's already in python 3.4 alpha20:47
harlowjalots of new concepts there, but a little overlap with taskflow (in a way)20:47
* iv_m lost count of 'future of the futures' puns20:47
harlowjaya, i should grep for how many mentions that page has of 'future'20:48
harlowjaprobably over 10020:48
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iv_mthey have most of interface in common with concurrent.futures, so i think if we're nice with that we'll be prepared)20:49
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harlowjabe interesting to see what happens in this area (especially with releation to openstack)20:50
harlowjaand how this works with eventlet (and eventlet+openstack...)20:50
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harlowjafun times ahead, ha20:50
harlowjaanyways, can chat more about this in #openstack-state-management so as not to keep people around if there isn't anything so useful to discuss :)20:51
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harlowjasince i know iv_m probably wants to go to sleep, haha20:51
harlowjaother news, i think boris (from mirantis) will start getting some taskflow programemrs involved from his side, so +1 (+2 when i see the people, ha)20:52
iv_mu know my weeknesses20:52
harlowjak, letting people go, 7 minutes left, ha20:53
haruka_i filed one more bp #link with using taskflow20:53
haruka_just under considering20:53
harlowjacool, haruka_ will check it out20:54
harlowjaand will add some comments20:54
harlowjamuch appreciated!20:54
harlowjajust did a quick look over, seems to be the right kind of idea20:55
harlowjai'd use that for like a top level blueprint and add in dependents for the pieces20:56
harlowjathat seems to be what russellb wants for that one (in whiteboard)20:56
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harlowjashall i help u there, or do u have that covered, can see if we can brainstorm how to make that possible20:57
harlowjasplitting the work and figuring out the pieces is not always easy :)20:57
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harlowjak, running out of time20:58
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harlowjaharuka_ if u want to brainstorm on how to do this we're always in #openstack-state-management channel (most of us anyway)20:59
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haruka_yes. thank you. Your comment is always appreciated.20:59
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harlowjaas for others, #openstack-state-management  also :)20:59
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harlowjauntil next time!20:59
harlowjathx for coming folks :)20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"20:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Dec  5 20:59:56 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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russellb#startmeeting nova21:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Dec  5 21:03:19 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:03
russellbhey everyone!  sorry for starting a couple minutes late21:03
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russellbawesome, lots of folks21:03
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russellb#topic general announcements21:04
*** openstack changes topic to "general announcements (Meeting topic: nova)"21:04
russellbicehouse-1 is out!21:04
russellb13 blueprints, > 200 bugs fixed21:04
russellbrelease is going by fast already21:04
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russellbwe'll talk more about icehouse-2 planning in a bit21:04
russellbother thing ... mid-cycle meetup21:04
russellb6 people signed up so far, heh21:05
shane-wang# of blueprints is not expected:)21:05
shane-wangI remember last time it was 65?21:05
yjiang5russellb: 6 people?21:05
russellbwell ... that's because *everything* was targeted at icehouse-121:05
russellband now most of it is on icehouse-2, some icehouse-3 ...21:05
* jog0 signs up21:05
russellbi suspect some folks are still working on getting budget approval21:05
russellbor just haven't filled out the registration thingy21:05
russellbso just a reminder21:05
* n0ano tentative signup21:05
mriedemyeah, should we hold off on signing up before that?21:06
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russellbmriedem: yeah probably21:06
russellbbut just making sure everyone saw all the info there21:06
russellbhotel info added21:06
russellblook at that, 2 people just signed up21:06
hartsocksmeh, I have Marriott points.21:07
russellbheh, that's what's recommended anyway21:07
russellbjust let me know if you have any questions about that21:07
russellb#topic sub-teams21:07
*** openstack changes topic to "sub-teams (Meeting topic: nova)"21:07
russellblet's do sub-teams first!21:07
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russellbhartsocks: you!21:07
russellb(others raise your virtual hand so i know you're in line)21:07
hartsocksWe're getting our act together for i221:07
* n0ano hand up21:08
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russellbhartsocks: cool, anything urgent that needs attention?21:08
hartsocksWe have 2 BP now in flight for i2 and I think we'll be proposing more stuff for i321:08
russellbhartsocks: just approved one BP for i2 for you21:08
hartsocksI'm trying to figure out how to move more of our stuff into Oslo.21:08
hartsocksor at least seeing what's appropriate to share there.21:09
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hartsocksI would like to do less *special* work in our driver and do smarter work over all.21:09
hartsocksWe'll be getting our act together the next few weeks on that.21:09
russellbi don't think i'll argue with that :)21:09
hartsocks'sall from me.21:09
russellbn0ano: what's up in scheduler land21:10
n0anomuch discussion about boris' no_db scheduler work, everyone likes the idea, issues about maintaining compatibily while transistioning to it.21:10
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russellbyeah, good point, i haven't thought about the migration path too much on that21:11
n0anoalso a lot of talk about the forklift of the scheduler code, didn't have much time on that, will probably discuss on the email list & next week21:11
russellbok, was curious if you guys got to that ...21:11
russellbi think we're about ready to start21:11
russellbneed someone to do the initial heavy lifting of the code export21:11
n0anodo we have a BP for the work involved in the forklift21:11
russellblifeless: talking about scheduler forklift if you're around21:12
russellbwe do have a blueprint21:12
lifelessrussellb: i21:12
n0anoI'll go look at that, looks like there's lots of people signed up to do the work so it should go21:12
lifelessrussellb: sorry, I am totally around21:12
russellblifeless: all good21:12
lifelessI think we're ready to start indeed21:13
lifelesswe need:21:13
lifeless - infra definitions for two projects21:13
lifelessI was going to use openstack/python-commonschedulerclient and openstack/commonscheduler21:13
lifeless - some filter-tree work to get commonscheduler existing21:13
russellbheh, that's fine, assuming we can rename if we want to be clever later21:13
mriedemholy long name21:13
lifelessand I think just cookiecutter to get the python-commonschedulerclient one in place21:13
* jog0 votes for oslo-scheduler21:14
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n0anowhat's in a name, as long as the code is there and works I don't care that much21:14
* russellb was thinking gantt21:14
shane-wangmriedem: +121:14
lifelessn0ano: +1 ;)21:14
mriedemwhat's in a name can be annoying for packagers....21:14
mriedemthink quantum/neutron21:14
lifelessjog0: so,no - not oslo, unless we want to trigger all the integration/incubation questions up now21:14
russellbsure, real name to be decided before it's released/packaged21:14
lifelessmriedem: we can rename anytime in the next three months.21:14
* n0ano I'm a developer, what's packaging :-)21:14
geekinutahyes please, name change so bad21:14
lifelessn0ano: it's one way that users get your code :)21:14
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jog0lifeless: point taken, sorry for side tracking21:15
lifelessI'm fine with gantt21:15
lifelessI'll put the infra patch up today21:15
lifelessdo we have volunteers to do the git filtering for the api server tree?21:15
lifelessI"ll do the client tree, I've it mostly canned here already anyhow21:15
russellbclient tree is basically 1 file i think21:16
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lifelessrussellb: yes, 95% will be cookiecutter stuff21:16
n0anolifeless, if the work involved is well defined we should be able to get people to do it21:16
lifelessmaking it installable, tests for ietc.21:16
russellband there's probably a nova/tests/scheduler/test_rpcapi.py21:16
lifelessn0ano: it's defined in the etherpad; I don't know if it's well enough defined21:16
lifelessrussellb: right :)21:16
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n0anolifeless, indeed, I guess we'll have to just start at some point in time21:17
russellbn0ano: yep ... and we'll have to periodically sync stuff ... it'll be a pain for a while21:17
russellbthat's why we need people looking after it regularly until it's done21:17
russellbkinda like nova-volume -> cinder21:17
lifelessok, so n0ano are you volunteering to do the git filter?21:17
n0anolifeless, sure, either me or I can always delegate someone21:18
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lifelessheh :) - whatever works21:18
* n0ano what did I just sign up for!!21:18
lifelessn0ano: thanks!21:18
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russellb#note n0ano (or a delegate) to start working on the new scheduler git tree21:18
n0anolifeless, send me emails with any details you need if necessary21:18
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russellbit's in the meeting minutes, you have to now21:19
shane-wangn0ano: +121:19
n0anorussellb, NP21:19
russellbalright, let's move on21:19
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russellbmelwitt: hey!  python-novaclient21:19
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russellbanything on fire?21:19
melwitthaha no, fortunately21:19
melwitthere is the weekly report:21:20
melwittopen bugs, 117 !fix released, 81 !fix committed21:20
melwitt24 new bugs21:20
melwitt0 high bugs21:20
melwitt22 patches up, 7 are WIP, could use more reviewers21:20
russellbfor API merged into nova it says, so should be fine21:20
russellbassuming code is sane21:20
russellblooks sane at a glance, i'll take another look afterwards21:21
russellbthe count of new bugs is lower than i remember, you must have been working on cleaning that up :)21:21
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melwittyes I have :)21:21
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russellbas usual, if anyone wants to help with novaclient tasks, please talk to melwitt !21:22
russellbsome bugs to be fixed i'm sure21:22
russellbmelwitt: anything else you wanted to bring up today?21:23
melwittno, I think that's it21:23
russellbgreat thanks21:23
russellb#topic bugs21:23
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:23
russellblifeless: any comments on nova bugs for today?21:23
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lifelessruh roh21:23
russellb200 New bugs21:23
lifelessI have some stats but it's not quite right yet21:23
mriedem72 untagged21:23
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* russellb has falled behind on tagging and could use some help21:24
dansmithnice grammar21:24
dansmithI falled behind too21:24
russellbdamn you21:24
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jog0plenty of critical bugs too (I am to blame for most I think)21:24
russellb#note dansmith to catch us up on bug triage this week21:24
lifeless <- is the thing I have put together21:24
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x26be350>21:24
russellbit removed the topic, not the note ... wat21:25
lifelessrussellb: LOL21:25
lifelessso my intent is to get this fixed this week, and be able to actually frame workloads sensibly.21:25
russellboh well, yes, stats!21:25
lifelessAlso, next week I'll have drafted a proposed update to the triage workflow21:25
lifelessso - I know I'm not crushing this, but I am working on it :)21:25
mriedemlifeless: thanks for working it21:26
russellbcool, appreciate the stats work, that's been a hole21:26
russellband for anyone who has some bandwidth, our current process is:21:26
lifelessbut if the stats are even vaguely right, we get from 30 to 80 bugs a week21:26
mriedemnot crushing > nothing21:26
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lifelesswhich is ~ 10 a day to do 'is this urgent or backburner' assessment on - which I think is a pretty light workload really21:26
russellbi wonder how many of those are devs filing right before they post a patch21:26
lifelessthis is across both nova and novaclient21:26
mriedemrussellb: i think that happens a lot21:27
lifelessshould I report them separately?21:27
russellbwell, the ones that go to In Progress immediately don't really need to be triaged in the same sense21:27
russellbi think21:27
lifelessrussellb: Do we ask them to do that? Is it valuable? [agreed that in progress immediately isn't a triage burden]21:27
mriedemagreed, but priority isn't set either sometimes, or backport potential21:27
russellbmriedem: good point, so there's still some triage work to do21:28
dansmithI usually create it in Confirmed state if I know I've got a bug, but haven't yet got a patch21:28
russellbi retract my comment then21:28
cyeohyea and sometimes they eventually ended up abandoned by the original developer so need to go back into triage21:28
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russellbcyeoh: true, that's one of the tasks listed on
mriedemyeah, would be nice if launchpad had an expiration feature or something21:28
russellbthough i don't know how often we make it past looking at the New ones ...21:28
mriedemor knew when the patch was abandoned so it could set the bug to confirmed or something21:28
mriedemor new21:28
mriedemwe should automate that, right?21:28
lifelessmriedem: it does21:29
mriedemlifeless: after how long?21:29
lifelessmriedem: if a bug is marked incomplete with no follow on comments, and on one project, it will expire21:29
mriedemi've seen abandoned patches with in progress bugs long after they were abandoned21:29
jog0while on bugs can we talk about some of the gate bugs?21:29
mriedemlifeless: ah, that's different21:29
mriedembug is in progress but patch is abandoned21:29
russellbjog0: yep21:29
mriedemthe bug doesn't change21:29
lifelessmriedem: but if we need a different policy it's an api script away.21:29
lifelessmriedem: oh, you want to unassign idle bugs?21:29
jog0in short
mriedemlifeless: yeah21:30
mriedemsomething like that21:30
cyeohlifeless: be nice if it had an auto-warn first21:30
jog0we have a lot of bugs on that list and most don't have anyone working on them21:30
lifelessmriedem: sounds like an infra feature request.21:30
cyeoh(to the person it is assigned to)21:30
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jog0including some neutron blocking bugs21:30
lifelesscyeoh: they can always toggle it back, it's non destructive21:30
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jog0russellb: hopeing for some volunteers to fix some gate bugs21:31
cyeohlifeless: yea was just thinking of avoiding races where someone else picks it up and ends up duplicating work already done21:31
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russellbalright guys, let's not leave jog0 hanging.  who can help with some gate issues over the next week?21:31
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russellb(and really, it's all of openstack-dev, not just jog0)  :-)21:31
* jog0 can't he will be at two conferences 21:31
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russellblooks like most of it is nova+neutron21:32
jog0yeah anda few nova + tempest21:32
mriedemcrap, there was another one i opened last night that has been happening but wasn't reported, scheduler fail21:32
jog0mriedem: that one isn't on the list yet but yeah21:32
mriedemphil day had a patch that should help at least make it more obvious in the logs when it fails21:32
jog0I commented on it21:32
mriedemjog0: k, haven't read the bug emails yet21:32
russellbi wonder how to give more incentive to work on these ...21:33
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1257644 in nova "gate-tempest-dsvm-postgres-full fails - unable to schedule instance" [Critical,Triaged]21:33
lifelessno other patches land until these fixed?21:33
russellbheh that's one way21:33
jog0and we have libvirt still stacktracing all the time21:33
lifelessstop-the-line in LEAN terms21:33
russellband i'm willing to use that hammer in desperate times21:33
mriedemjog0: is that the 'instance not found' libvirt stacktrace?21:33
lifelessrussellb: Just a thought, but if the expectation is that that hammer will come out21:33
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jog0russellb lifeless: we aren't there yet  ( I think)21:33
lifelessrussellb: perhaps folk will respond more quickly in non desperate times.21:33
jog0mriedem: mriedem thats a different thing21:34
jog0let me dig21:34
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mroddenmight be worth a test run21:35
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1255624 in nova "libvirtError: Unable to read from monitor: Connection reset by peer" [Critical,Triaged]21:35
mroddenre: stop the line thing21:35
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1254872 in nova "libvirtError: Timed out during operation: cannot acquire state change lock" [Critical,Triaged]21:35
russellbi think if failure rates pass some really bad threshold we should do that21:35
jog0it was 25% the other day21:35
russellb(the hammer)21:35
jog0in gate not check21:35
lifelessCan we link MC Hammer in the email where you say it's happened?21:35
russellbthoughts on where the "stop everything" line should be?21:35
* lifeless is satisfied21:35
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lifelessmrodden: go on?21:36
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mroddeni think the idea is just no +A until we get criticals in gate fixed, threshold down etc.21:36
jog0gate-tempest-dsvm-postgres-full = 20.00 failure rate as of now21:36
mriedemis there an idea of how fast these start to build up, i.e. once you hit a certain % it's exponential fails after that?21:37
russellbyeah, that's high21:37
jog0so fixing gate issues is a several step process21:37
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jog01) fingerprint the bug, and add to e-r21:37
russellbprobably not (no more +A) high yet21:37
jog02) identify root cause21:37
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jog03) fix it21:37
jog0step 1 is what I have been focusing on21:37
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jog0step 2 and 3 are alot more work21:37
mriedemis 'reverify no bug' dead yet?21:37
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russellbjog0: hugely helpful, then people know which individual things to dive deep on21:38
russellbjog0: the libvirt things, danpb had some feedback on collecting more logs, any progress on that?21:38
jog0russellb: been backed up so no21:38
russellbok, not expecting you to do it, just asking in general21:38
russellbalright, well, work needed here, but let's move on for the meeting21:39
russellb#topic blueprints21:39
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)"21:39
jog0so gate pass rate= 80% right now21:39
russellb113 total icehouse blueprints right now21:39
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dimsjog0, which jobs are failing consistently?21:40
russellbwhich already seems over our realistic velocity21:40
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russellblet's continue the gate chat in #openstack-nova21:40
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russellbhow that icehouse-1 is done, we need to get our icehouse-2 and icehouse-3 lists cleaned up21:40
russellb87 blueprints on icehouse-221:40
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russellbwhich is *far* from realistic21:40
shane-wangif we get a lot of stuffs in rc2 or rc3, does that mean we will get a lot of bugs in the end?21:40
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russellbshane-wang: i'm not sure what you mean?21:41
shane-wangrussellb: I mean do we need some time in rc to clean the bugs?21:41
russellbshane-wang: icehouse will be feature frozen after icehouse-321:41
russellband there will be a number of weeks where only bug fixes can be merged21:41
shane-wangjust a little worried.21:42
russellbfrom March 6 to April 1721:42
russellbbug fixes only21:42
shane-wanggood, thanks.21:42
russellbsure np21:42
russellbso, 40 blueprints still need some review attention21:42
russellbyou can see it pretty well on the full icehouse list21:42
russellbanything not prioritized is still in the review process21:42
jog0russellb: how do our plans change if we decide to unfreeze nova-network?21:43
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russellbPending Approval (waiting on review), Review (waiting on submitter, but we need to follow up to check if updates have been posted)21:43
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russellbDrafting (not ready for review), Discussion (review pending some discussion in progress)21:43
russellbso any help on those is appreciated, and generally expected of nova-drivers :-)21:43
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russellbjog0: so, after icehouse-2 i'd like to have the nova-network discussion21:44
russellbour plans don't change *too* much at this point21:44
russellbother than we can accept more patches21:44
cyeohjog0: we will have a bunch of v3 API work if we decide to support nova-network again, but I think it'll be manageable21:44
russellbcyeoh: great point.21:44
jog0well lets hope it doesn't come to that21:44
russellbit seems they are making much better progress than pre-summit21:45
russellbso i remain optimistic that it won't come to that21:45
lifelessn0ano: whats your email address?21:45
n0anolifeless, donald.d.dugger@intel.com21:45
dansmithrussellb: I am not optimistic21:45
russellbif it does come to that, unfreezing nova-network will spawn a much more significant discussion about neutron that is beyond just nova21:45
lifelessn0ano: ack, thanks21:46
russellbso ... not for just us to work out the details21:46
russellbany specific blueprints anyone wants to cover?21:46
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russellbwell, if you have stuff targeted at i2, please consider moving it to i3 if you don't think you'll have code in the next few weeks21:47
russellb#topic open discussion21:47
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:47
russellbthe agenda on the wiki had something for open discussion21:47
russellbmriedem: that was you right?21:47
dansmithupgrades are broken!21:47
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mriedemrussellb: yeah21:47
russellbdansmith: but you're fixing them21:47
russellbdansmith: we can talk about that in a sec though21:48
mriedemrussellb: ndipanov probably cares but don't see him here21:48
mriedembasically the ML thread on mox/mock, sounds like that's mainly sorted out21:48
mriedemuse mock for new tests, move mox to mox3 over time, and there are exceptions to not using mock21:48
mriedemexceptionial cases sound like backports or big ugly hacks21:48
mriedemthe other thing on the agenda i was pointing out was our plethora of hacking guides21:49
mriedemjog0 was cleaning up the keystone hacking guide to point at the global one21:49
mriedemi think we should do the same for nova21:49
russellbi thought we already point to the global one?21:49
mriedemi.e. nova/tests/README is super stale21:49
russellband then have addition of our own nova specific rules21:49
mriedemyeah, but i think the nova-specific stuff might need to be reviewed again21:49
mriedemnova/tests/README is it's own animal i htink21:49
russellband I think you're talking about something more broad than what people generally think of when you say HACKING around here21:50
russellbyou mean ... dev docs21:50
mriedemand last point being the horizon guys have a great testing guide21:50
russellbthere's also docs/source/devref/21:50
mriedemwell, there are wikis, devref, readmes, etc21:50
mriedemit's everywhere21:50
russellbdocs/source/devref/ should probably be where we focus right?21:50
jog0++ to streamlined dev docs21:50
mriedemi think we should try to get as much of that as possible into the global hacking docs (devref)21:50
russellbok cool, that works for me21:50
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russellbI support this effort, heh21:50
mriedemand i think we want to integrate horizon's testing guide into the global hacking devref21:51
mriedemhorizon has a great testing guide21:51
mriedemand then once that's done, we add our stance on mox/mock21:51
* mriedem needs to breath21:51
russellbyou planning to work on this?21:51
mriedemchrist, so....21:51
mriedemi think i can get the ball rolling21:51
jog0mriedem: I can get behind that idea, a little doc re-org is needed but very doable.21:51
mriedemndipanov seems to be passionate about it21:51
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russellbso do you :)21:52
mriedemyeah, this isn't rocket science, just takes time to do it21:52
mriedemi care about it simply because i get tired of having to explain it in reviews21:52
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russellbshall i write a letter to your boss?  we have work for you to do here21:52
mriedemi want to just point to a single location21:52
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mriedemplus it will be easier to tell people in a review 'sorry, use mock, link here'21:53
russellbworks for me21:53
mriedemthen it's not a question of my personal preference, it's dogma21:53
russellbdon't think anyone would argue with this21:53
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russellbjust need to do it :)21:53
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mriedemyeah, so i'll start to get some work items in place and then i (and maybe others) can help knock them off21:53
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russellbalright sounds good21:54
russellbdansmith: you're up21:54
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dansmithwell, there's not much to say, really, but geekinutah broke live upgrades21:54
dansmithhe broke them all to hell and back21:54
russellball his fault?21:55
geekinutahnow youre backtracking21:55
dansmithof course, it wasn't his fault at all21:55
dansmithbut he DID break them21:55
dansmithanyway, basically just infrastructure that we don't have all worked out yet21:55
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dansmithI've got a set up that fixes it, but it'll require a teensy backport to havana in order to make it work21:55
dansmithhowever, with that, I'm back to being able to run tempest smoke against a deployment on master with havana compute nodes21:56
russellbdid you have to hack rpc too?21:56
russellbto make your test work?21:56
dansmithif anyone is interested21:56
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russellbrelated:  and
russellbposted 3 seconds ago21:56
dansmithrussellb: no, I see some like cert or console fails, but they're not blockers21:56
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dansmithrussellb: so that set, with the conductor fix backported to havana makes it all work21:56
russellbdansmith: oh, hm, i guess it's just a mixed havana-icehouse compute node env that broke?21:57
russellbi guess that's right21:57
dansmithrussellb: right, that's the big breakage, which doesn't affect me21:57
russellbyou just can't have both at the same time right now ^^^ without those fixes21:57
russellband then your object magic21:57
russellband the gate job21:58
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russellbhey guys, live upgrades are hard21:58
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dansmithyeah, we really need the gate job,21:58
dansmithbut at least I have a one-button "are we broke or not" thing I can check until then21:58
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dansmiththat is all21:58
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geekinutahso next time I break things I'll have to fix them :-)?21:59
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dansmithgeekinutah: next time you break them, I quit :)21:59
russellbalright, we're about out of time21:59
russellbthank you all for your time!21:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Dec  5 21:59:33 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:59
jog0once I have a minute, I will work on getting that test into grenade21:59
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