Thursday, 2014-01-16

Daisy#startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting00:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 16 00:00:26 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.00:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'00:00
DaisyGood morning/evening !00:00
gabrielcwHello everyone00:00
ujucGood moning :))00:00
epicogood morning00:01
gabrielcwgood night ;)00:01
DaisyHello everyone. It's the first time meeting in 2014.00:01
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DaisyI hope you have a good time in new year days.00:01
DaisyToday we will look at the progress of installation guide translation and collect issues if we have.00:02
ujucok :)00:02
Daisy#topic Installation guide translation progress and issues00:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Installation guide translation progress and issues (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:02
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DaisyFrom Transifex, we can see:00:03
DaisyJapanese translation is completed finished. very good work.00:03
DaisyKorean and German have more than 50% completed. Thank you for your hard work, ujuc.00:03
ujuchu  ;)00:03
DaisyRussian, Chinese and Portuguese have certain progress.00:04
DaisyAs our plan, we will start to publish translations since today.  :)00:04
DaisyIt's OK that some teams have not finished. We can publish those who has completed.00:04
DaisyWe can publish those translations when complete.00:04
gabrielcwwe will have better progress for pt_BR soon, I was short in time00:05
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DaisyThank you, gabrielcw .00:05
DaisyOur Chinese team will do too. :)00:05
DaisySince string forzen will start from the beginning of March. I will suggest we complete document translation by the end of February. Or else, the workload in March will become too big.00:05
DaisyI mean, after string frozen, we will move to messages translations.00:06
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Daisyso we'd better to conclude our document translation work in Feb.00:06
ujucok :)00:06
DaisyAgain, please record the names of conributors. Community should recognize them. I will collect contributors' names from you after we finish this work. Please pay attention too. Thank you.00:06
Daisyujuc: do you have people to help you in installation guide translation?00:07
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DaisyCommunity will send free registration codes to those contributors. I know maybe some people won't have chance to fly to US to attend. But it's a kind of recognization.00:08
Daisy#topic translation publish script00:09
*** openstack changes topic to "translation publish script (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:09
DaisyWhile the team is translating, we need somebody to take a look at the publish job in Jenkins.00:09
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DaisyWe have one to manage operation guide in Japanese's publishing:00:10
DaisyBut it doesn't work well now.00:10
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DaisyWe need to have the similar jobs for installation guide and for several languages.00:10
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DaisyI'm working it now. I know Tom Fifield is also taking an eye on it too.00:11
Daisyoh. Sorry, forget to mention one important thing in the first topic.00:11
DaisyThere are some contents in "installation guide" in the "common" folder.00:11
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DaisySome of the contents of "installation guide" are in the resource of "common" in Transifex.00:12
Daisysome XML files.00:12
ujucUmmm~~ T.T00:13
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DaisyI will get the name list of XML files and send to ML. So after we translate the strings in "installation guide", we also need to take care of those XMLs in "common".00:13
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Daisy#action Daisy to get the name list of XML files in common and send to ML.00:14
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DaisyI have finished what I want to talk. :) very quick.00:15
Daisy#topic free discussion00:15
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ujuc:0 hhh00:15
Daisydo you have anything to discussion?00:15
gabrielcwnothing special here, but about the jenkins, i'm no specialist, but I can help maybe00:16
ujucnothing :) :)00:16
Daisythank you, gabrielcw .00:16
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gabrielcwi am looking at the code, if I figure it out I'll let you know so I can be useful00:17
DaisyNow the question blocking me is that I don't know how to invoke a script in repository "doc-tools" from our publish Jenkins job.00:17
DaisyWe have some scripts called translation tools.00:17
DaisyYou know doc team have several repositories for their contents.00:18
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DaisyAt the beginning, we put translation tools to every repository.00:18
DaisyNow the translation tools have been moved to a new repository: doc-tools.00:19
DaisyNo, gabrielcw00:19
DaisyLet me find a link.00:19
ujucoh :)00:19
gabrielcwoh, ok00:19
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DaisyYou see: generatedocbook and generatepot there?00:21
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Daisyyou can also find generatedocbook and generatepot under the above two links to.00:24
DaisyI think, now there should only be one place to put "generatedocbook and generatepot"00:24
DaisyThe others should be removed.00:24
gabrielcwI see00:24
DaisyThen I don't know if the others are removed, how to invoke them under operations-guide?00:25
DaisyMaybe I'm wrong. Maybe the others should not be removed. :)00:25
gabrielcwbut who in fact calls them?00:26
DaisyThere is a job in Jenkins. Let me find the link.00:26
gabrielcwthat one?00:26
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DaisySee the end of this file: manuals.yaml00:28
Daisy- job:00:28
Daisy    name: openstack-operations-guide-ja00:28
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DaisyWe should have similar ones: installation-guide-pt-br, installation-guide-zh-cn00:29
Daisybut at first, we need to have openstack-operations-guide-ja running well. :)00:30
gabrielcwoh, what's wrong?00:30
DaisyI don't know yet, actually.00:30
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1216153 in openstack-i18n "ops guide japanese build fails" [High,Confirmed]00:31
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DaisyThere is a bug to track it.00:32
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gabrielcwthat's seems a large change00:33
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gabrielcwmoving repos around00:33
DaisyI'm going to have a chat with Tom Fifield about it. He can help me to catch the current status.00:34
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DaisyI don't think it's a big problem. But it's a problem that many projects and many people evolved.  That's reason why it is complex.00:35
gabrielcwmeanwhile I will tinker with the manuals.yaml00:35
gabrielcwyes, that`s what I think too00:35
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Daisythank you, gabrielcw.00:36
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DaisyIf we don't have topics, I'm going to close the meeting.00:36
ujucyes :)00:36
DaisyI leave 20 minutes to us. You can go back to your work. I can drive to office then.00:38
DaisySo see you next meeting.00:38
DaisyThank you.00:38
DaisyLet's keep contact through email.00:38
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 16 00:38:40 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)00:38
openstackMinutes (text):
ujucThanks :)00:38
gabrielcwi'm leaving, goodbye!00:39
Daisyepico: thank you.00:39
DaisyHave a nice sleep, gabrielcw .00:39
gabrielcwthanks :)00:39
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enikanorov_neutron lbaas meeting in 3 minutes13:57
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enikanorov_#startmeeting neutron lbaas14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 16 14:00:29 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is enikanorov_. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas'14:00
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enikanorov_who's online for lbaas meeting?14:01
enikanorov_hi s3wong14:01
* sbalukoff will be lurking14:01
s3wongenikanorov: Hello14:01
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enikanorov_markmcclain: hi14:01
enikanorov_avishayb: hi14:01
enikanorov_#topic announcements14:02
*** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:02
markmcclainenikanorov_: hi14:02
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enikanorov_not so much to announce this week, actually14:02
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enikanorov_markmcclain: we'll need you to discuss ssl extension proposal14:02
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samuelbercovicihi all14:03
enikanorov_so on announcements, we still expecting basic lbaas scenario test to get merged14:03
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enikanorov_ithe test is ready, we are currently making sure it runs stable14:04
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enikanorov_after that i'm going to ping temepest cores until we merge it14:04
enikanorov_hi Sam14:04
samuelbercovicienikanorov_: what is basic lbaas scenario? how is it different than the existing lbaas tests?14:04
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enikanorov_samuelbercovici: basic scenario is end-to-end test in tempest14:05
samuelbercoviciaren't there already tests in tempest for lbaas?14:05
enikanorov_it merely starting vm instance, starting web services on it, configurin loadbalancer, adding those members and checking that it all works accessing them with floating ip14:05
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enikanorov_samuelbercovici: those are API tests, they mainly test neutron server responses14:06
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enikanorov_and they don't care about if it all works behind the scenes14:06
enikanorov_our basic scenario represents real-life usage more or less14:06
samuelbercoviciso in addition to the existing lbaas tempest etsts, this one adds passing traffic?14:07
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enikanorov_right. and the results can depend on the provider that is used for lbaas (can, but should not)14:08
samuelbercoviciplease point to the tests so we can try and run it localy14:08
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enikanorov_#topic third-party testing14:09
*** openstack changes topic to "third-party testing (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:09
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enikanorov_that was discussed a number of times in ML, and it looks like we already have a few systems set up properly14:10
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enikanorov_but i'm not sure we have such for lbaas14:10
enikanorov_samuelbercovici: any progress from your side on this?14:10
avishaybwe are (more or less) in the last mile with 3rd party testing..14:10
VijayEugene:  As you might be already aware, NetScaler CI is LIVE now14:11
enikanorov_cool. one of the important requirements is that you provide a way to check logs14:11
avishaybhowever - we did some code fix in order to run it against Radware env,14:11
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avishaybI meab in the temest test code.14:11
enikanorov_Vijay: great14:11
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enikanorov_avishayb: what kind of fix?14:11
VijayIn Addition, we were able to run the scenario test 58697 with ML2 + VLAN and NetScaler providing LBaaS14:12
enikanorov_it doesn't seem right. you may change devstack configuration, but tempest should be trunk14:12
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enikanorov_Vijay: super! i'd be interested in knowing detail about configuration14:12
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enikanorov_Vijay: could you write me a short notice about how did you configured whole env?14:13
avishaybOne of the method (not sure about the name) calls the API but does not wait until the entity that was created is ACTIVE.14:13
enikanorov_avishayb: then it looks like tempest bug - please file it and propose a fix14:13
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avishaybso the test goes on while the entity is PENDING_CREATE. I will gather the details.14:14
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enikanorov_i see. also, it might be ok for API test14:14
samuelbercovicito add on avishayb we want to make sure all tsts pass localy and that we pinned all issues .14:14
enikanorov_so it yet unclear, should it be fixed, or the driver needs to be fixed14:14
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samuelbercovicithe next step will be to open bugs on the tempets tests and post the fixes14:15
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enikanorov_any questions on 3rd party testing?14:15
samuelbercovicienikanorov_: this should be a fix of the tempest tests14:15
enikanorov_samuelbercovici: that's possible14:16
avishaybenikanorov_: is there a cetral place where we can store the logs and have a public URL for them?14:16
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samuelbercoviciwe should revert to being a voting CI until we get this fixed, otherwise we will fail tests for nothing14:16
enikanorov_avishayb: i don't know, honestly14:16
Vijaymark: You had marked the NetScaler driver commit on hold till External Testing System is ready.14:17
VijayNow it is up.14:17
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enikanorov_markmcclain: do you think you can remove -2 from netscaler driver patch since their CI is up?14:17
samuelbercovicibtw -  is there going to be review on what the CI system do for testing?14:17
enikanorov_samuelbercovici: i think publicly available logs are the good representation of what CI is doing14:18
samuelbercovicienikanorov_: correct. so are public logs mandatory to approve a CI?14:19
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enikanorov_yes, this is a requirement. afaik currently new CIs are not given a right to vote in gerrit until infra folks approve it14:19
markmcclainVijay: ideally I'd like to see a few more votes from the system before merging14:20
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enikanorov_removing -2 is not giving +2! :)14:20
enikanorov_but it gives the feeling that patch is not hopeless14:21
enikanorov_ok, let's move to the next item14:22
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enikanorov_#topic ssl extension14:22
*** openstack changes topic to "ssl extension (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:22
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enikanorov_the patch itself is in a good shape i would say14:23
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enikanorov_although we had some confusion on choosing the best implementation approach14:23
enikanorov_should it be a separate db-plugin14:23
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enikanorov_or a part of lbaas plugin, e.g. mixin14:23
enikanorov_markmcclain: hi14:24
evgenyfYes, I need a review14:24
evgenyfCurrently it's undependent extension14:24
evgenyfNot part of the LbaaS plugin14:24
evgenyfI'm working on unit tests implementation for extension14:25
enikanorov_I have 2 concerns here, one is that this extension is specific to one provider, another one is that we might not be able to implement it for haproxy14:25
enikanorov_markmcclain: i guess you have something to say on this matter14:25
samuelbercovicito add some context on the decision to implement as an extension and not on LBaaS.14:26
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markmcclainyeah…we can't put ssl as a common ext because haproxy does not support it14:26
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markmcclainhopefully haproxy will finally decide to release instead of carrying a dev branch for 2 yrs14:27
samuelbercoviciDiscussion with markmcclain have pointed to several chalenges in implementing it immediately in ha proxy14:27
samuelbercovici1. ha proxy 1.5 is not ga yet, obvisously this can still be implemented with ha proxy 1.4 + stunnel14:27
s3wonghaproxy 1.5 is quite ambitious - so it may take some time for all the features to be ready to make it a stable release14:28
samuelbercovici2. the communication channel of the AMQP is currently not secured and it would not be proper to push certificates to HA proxy via unsecured channel14:28
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enikanorov_yes, this is understood14:28
enikanorov_the question would be about how we do it. ssl is desired feature14:29
evgenyfThe extension is not limited to provider, technically, but provider which does not implement the ssl API will get "UnsupportedExtensionException"14:29
enikanorov_but putting it as a common extension is a bit misleading right now14:29
markmcclainI agree that ssl is desires14:29
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markmcclainstunnel+1.4 could be a viable alternative path14:29
samuelbercovici3. markmclain did not approve of storing the private key in the database. ideally this should wait for babican14:30
markmcclainwhich then means we've got to solve the 2nd side of the equation14:30
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enikanorov_ok, the alternative approach could be:14:30
enikanorov_1) introduce vendor extension framework14:30
markmcclainhow to transmit and store cert14:30
enikanorov_2) put ssl ext under /radware14:30
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samuelbercoviciall of this lead us to approach this as an extension so we can have the API as "experimental"14:31
samuelbercovicithe extension by itself was discussed with community and it should be possible to be used by any vendor14:31
enikanorov_samuelbercovici: yes, but as i understand that it is a general policy14:32
samuelbercovicithe implementation will try to check if this is supported by a driver and if so will call the driver14:32
enikanorov_to publish the API when it has an opensource backend impl14:32
samuelbercoviciwell, if you look at the many extension that NVP has some of them do not have opensource extension14:32
markmcclainif stunnel+1.4 proves viable then I'd consider making an experimental community ext14:32
samuelbercoviciwhen we get this implemented with AH proxy, than we can decide to move it as part of the LBaaS api and not an extension14:33
markmcclainbut we'd have to release with the caveat that cert mgt likely needs lots of auditing14:33
enikanorov_samuelbercovici: to me whole question is how this extension is presented14:34
enikanorov_and how it is configured14:34
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markmcclainhow much interaction have the people here had with the barbican team?14:34
enikanorov_if it is a vendor extension, that solves pretty much all of the issues14:34
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markmcclainenikanorov_: kind of14:34
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markmcclainCVEs can still be created for vendor extensions14:35
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markmcclainso we don't want to knowingly release something insecure14:35
enikanorov_i'd like to know more about policies around that14:35
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markmcclainenikanorov_: policies on CVEs or releasing insecure code?14:35
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samuelbercovicipardon for ignorance, what is CVEs?14:36
enikanorov_yes, so we have vendor stuff and opensource stuff14:36
enikanorov_markmcclain: and following your words, it looks like responsibility is the same and lays on the team maintaining the project14:36
markmcclainsamuelbercovici: see http://cve.mitre.org14:37
markmcclainit does but when there is code in the master neutron tree (even vendor plugins)14:37
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markmcclainthe CVE burden is shared by the members of the OpenStack security, neutron security, and release management teams14:38
enikanorov_in other words, we need to care of vendor code as about other14:38
markmcclaincorrect… I'll be leaning on the vendors to fix their code14:38
markmcclainbut releasing and managing that fix requires many folks14:39
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enikanorov_i see. i know samuelbercovici doesn't like to depend on other work/patches,  but then I'd propose to introduce ssl as vendor extension. I think it will not require major change in already written code.14:40
enikanorov_I mean, to integrate it via vendor extension framework14:40
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evgenyfenikanorov_: What you mean by "vendor extension framework"?14:41
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enikanorov_evgenyf: that was the proposal to add another way extension are loaded. for instance, instead of plugin declaring extension aliases that it supports, it also could ask drivers what extensions they support14:42
enikanorov_and it exports extension itself, and not the alias14:43
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enikanorov_so your driver can directly inject new resources into API layer14:43
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enikanorov_and it will be visible only when your driver is configured14:43
evgenyfI c. Is there any info about this proposal?14:43
samuelbercovicienikanorov_: do u have this already implemented?14:44
enikanorov_I was implementing it behind the scenes but that items had low priority in my list. now i think i'll move it up, so expect me to post the code at the end of the next week14:45
samuelbercovicimarkmcclain: 10x (about CVEs)14:45
enikanorov_evgenyf: there is a blueprint on this14:45
enikanorov_let me find the link14:46
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samuelbercovicienikanorov_: as u already know me ;-) lets work in paralel. we can always fix this14:47
samuelbercoviciwhen urs is ready14:47
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enikanorov_i agree14:47
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samuelbercovicito return back to the question for markmcclain, is the approach (extension) is acceptable?14:48
evgenyfenikanorov_: Thanks14:48
enikanorov_evgenyf: apparently it doesn't have much description14:48
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enikanorov_evgenyf: lets discuss it offline. anyway the idea was to be able to write extensions in the regular way, so I expect your code mostly unaffected14:49
samuelbercovicimarkmcclain: (to use the proper irc syntax). is the approach to introduce SSL temination as an extension, declare as experimantal and when we finished "grilling" it and having a complete opensource solution, move it as part of the API?14:51
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evgenyfenikanorov_: Ok14:51
enikanorov_ok, lets move to l7 rules meanwhile14:53
enikanorov_#topic l7 rules14:53
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enikanorov_avishayb: hi14:53
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avishaybmy current work is here
avishaybmainly the DB layer plus some REST14:54
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markmcclainenikanorov_: sorry… pulled into discussion… I'm still a little unsure of having drivers add resource extensions14:54
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markmcclainmainly because that creates an uneven API experience14:54
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enikanorov_in that case we're stuck14:55
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enikanorov_markmcclain: what would be the way to add ssl extension in J then?14:57
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enikanorov_we have 2 minutes left14:58
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markmcclainenikanorov_: hopefully haproxy will be available then14:59
markmcclainand we can just make it core14:59
samuelbercovicibut untill then....14:59
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enikanorov_so will you propose to implement correspoding code for haproxy meanwhile?15:00
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samuelbercovicialso, as said, this can be done with stunnel + 1.415:00
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enikanorov_ok. we need to wrap up, we can continue discussion on neutron channel15:00
enikanorov_thanks everyone for joining15:00
markmcclainI'd be interested to see what the stunnel solution looks like15:00
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 16 15:00:55 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:00
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ttxanyone here for the storyboard meeting ?16:03
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ttxlet's see if anyone else joins16:05
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SergeyLukjanovI'm partially here, should prepare slides for ptl webinar16:05
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ttxok, let's get started16:06
ttx#startmeeting storyboard16:06
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 16 16:06:22 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:06
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:06
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'16:06
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ttxAgenda is pretty empty, feel free to add to it16:06
ttx#topic Storyboard sprint16:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Storyboard sprint (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:07
ttxDetails have been published at:16:07
ttxRussian folks: how are the visas coming along ?16:07
ruhestill in progress, but things seem to be ok there16:08
ttxPlease add your arrival/departure times on the "Attendees" section of that wikipage16:08
ruhettx: ok16:08
ttxwill help plan any extra-curricular activities16:08
ttxkrotscheck: there will be coffee.16:08
krotscheckttx: Thank goodness.16:08
gothicmindfoodttx - I spoke with Cody a little bit about whipping up a super basic agenda for both days.16:09
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gothicmindfoodI have that on my to-dos for today16:09
ttxkrotscheck: nespresso crap, but at least it's espressos16:09
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ttxgothicmindfood: sounds good16:09
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gothicmindfoodI'll probably just start with "here are, realistically, the hours we can work, and the basic themes we need to cover in those hours"16:10
ttxgothicmindfood: do the workgroups I put in the wiki make sense ?16:10
gothicmindfoodttx: I think so, but I also believe we're just in one room, right?16:10
ttxgothicmindfood: we can start with a basic intro to the root of the project and introduce everyone and then fly16:10
ruhettx: i've added myself to the CI/CD group. i hope it's ok because i'm working on Puppet scripts for installation of Storyboard16:10
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ttxgothicmindfood: it's more a way to organize within the room than /separate/ workgroups16:11
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gothicmindfoodttx: understood16:11
ttxalso to try to predict who is interested by what16:11
krotscheckIt's not like we can't reshuffle when we're there. Chances are some teams will have less to do than others.16:12
gothicmindfoodttx: I think some things will lead into others (a basic product plan/model, for example, needs input from everyone, and will lead to Code and Infra work prioritizations for the sprint)16:12
ttxgothicmindfood: agreed. It's more general themes and the people who we expect to drive each16:12
gothicmindfoodok cool - definitely understood. :)16:13
ttxany question on that sprint ? Everyone booked hotels already ?16:13
ruherussian folks booked hotels16:13
gothicmindfoodI believe everyone in HP is booked, but I'm not 100% on mordred16:14
ttxok then, no question, let's move on16:14
mordredwhat did I do?16:14
ttxgothicmindfood: he is having problems finding a decent Starwood option, I guess16:14
mordredoh - no, I'm booked16:15
gothicmindfoodoh godo!16:15
mordredI'm not staying where you are - but whatevs16:15
gothicmindfoodmordred - you aren't at the 4 points?16:15
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ttxThe 4 points is.. not so great. been there last year16:15
krotscheckgothicmindfood: He's probably at the luxury collection downtown ;)16:15
ttxbrussels has a decent selection of nice "boutique" hotels that are not more expensive :)16:16
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ttxanyway, moving on16:16
ttx#topic storyboard-webclient current state16:16
*** openstack changes topic to "storyboard-webclient current state (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:16
ttxThis was added by me, trying to catch up on you all16:17
ttxsince you run so fast16:17
krotscheckRighto, so the webclient build went into infra yesterday16:17
ttxcould anyone explain where we currently are, and how to test that state (if possible) ?16:17
ttxkrotscheck: ok16:17
krotscheckAnd after a minor hiccup (some of the test results weren't being uploaded) that all seems to be working now.16:17
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* ttx is already missing ./ runserver16:17
krotscheckThe build takes a bit, because infra's making us recompile node from scratch every time.16:17
krotscheckNext steps:16:18
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krotscheck1- Get the storyboard API spun up so we can do real integration/functional tests.16:18
krotscheck(rather than mocking it)16:18
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krotscheck2- Get the whole shebang onto a server. ruhe's currently working on that.16:19
ttxso the webclient is currently diplaying mocked data ? How feature-y is it compared to the Django poc ?16:19
krotscheckttx: Well, the copy that's up there matches the UI.16:19
ttx(I should test that but all those new words (grunt) scare me16:19
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krotscheckI'm currently working on mocking all the data bits, ETA sometime... todayish?16:20
ttxkrotscheck: is there some "how to test" instructions that end up mostly usable on a Linux distro (ubuntu/debian) ?16:20
krotscheck(note: Mocks in angular intercept at the request level, so once we have an API we can rip that out and it _should_ work magically)16:20
krotscheckttx:... like "how do you run it?"16:21
ttx(one never knows, I might have some time to play tomorrow)16:21
ttxkrotscheck: yes, run from code16:21
mordredttx: the grunt stuff is actually quite nice16:21
mordredonce you step through it the first time and get past the fear16:21
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ttxmordred: i don't doubt it. I'm just being realistic on my ability to free up time this week16:21
mordredin fact, it makes it all feel very much like normal dev instead of scary web things16:21
krotscheckttx: There's some instructions in the readme, I can elabroate on those.16:21
mordredttx: like, with unittests and stuff16:22
ttxkrotscheck: taht would be nice, but if I'm the only one behind I could also take the high road16:22
mordredttx: I was able to run grunt things on basically the first try by following the instructions - and I enjoyed the experience16:22
ttxmordred: ok, I'll try that16:22
krotscheckttx: Take a look at bin/bootstrap.sh16:22
krotscheckThat's a script that'll install everything into a locally configured path16:23
krotscheckYou can adjust that script to do sudo thing16:23
ttxkrotscheck: don't lose time on me. If mordred could run JS things, so could I.16:23
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ttx(previous sentence not true for C++)16:23
mordredttx: they've even got pep8 like things and stuff!16:23
ttxmordred: who could have expected that16:24
mordredI know, right?16:24
ttxI mean, everyone knows Python is the only language with decent... wait16:24
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ttxkrotscheck: is the UI a completely new thing ? Or based on the Bootstrap POC ?16:25
ttxkrotscheck: FWIW my preference for semantic-UI is based on the cleaner aspect of the syntax, and the fact that it doesn't look like the 1000s of sites using bootstrap.16:26
krotscheckRight, so next step is "Let's get a server"16:26
krotscheck(Might be a good new agenda item)16:26
ttxso it's a bit of a hipster thing16:26
ttxcody-somerville has much stronger and reasonable reasons16:26
krotscheckttx: It's almost a verbatim copy fo the PoC16:26
krotscheckThere are some kittens16:26
gothicmindfoodkrotscheck: no unicorns?!?16:26
krotscheckttx: I did want to take the time to see how semantic UI stacks up by doing a full replacement.16:27
ttxI'm ok to defer decision to the people who will end up writing the most code. My preference being purely aesthetic16:27
krotscheckttx: I also don't like the "Everyone's using the same UI" thing, but thankfully all the colors/variables are injectable.16:27
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krotscheckttx: Though that is true for all the layout frameworks out there.16:28
ttxkrotscheck: did you look up semantic-ui yet ? any reason for not loving it ?16:28
mordredttx: also, fwiw, have spoken with david-lyle recently and horizon is also interested in moving a bit more in a direction similar to this stuff from krotscheck - so we may actually wind up staying somewhat in alignment16:28
* krotscheck is personally not a big fan of how much padding they use.16:28
ttxkrotscheck: the fact that it's not bootstrap, so not so much used ?16:28
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krotscheckttx: I have two not-very-good-reasons for preferring bootstrap.16:29
krotscheckFirst: I know it.16:29
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ttxkrotscheck: anyway, I think that's a great topic to finally sort out at the sprint16:29
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krotscheckSecond: Semantic UI's markup actually makes assumptions about how you want your UI to look on different browser sizes, instead of giving you direct control.16:29
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ttxand then have everyone aligned16:29
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krotscheckttx: I agree.16:29
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krotscheckttx: And that gives me a deadline.16:29
ttxyeah, I think things are aligning well, timing-wise16:30
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ttx#topic "Let's get a server"16:31
*** openstack changes topic to ""Let's get a server" (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:31
ttxkrotscheck: I'll let you introduce topic16:31
krotscheckHaving said that: Both bootstrap and semantic live in the world of "We don't want to bother with doing too much UI work". If we're going to get super custom on the UI we might want skeleton16:31
krotscheckSo, the basic pieces of the project are this:16:31
krotscheck1- A Javascript webclient that can be served statically and will (once we get our first gate) live in a tarball on tarballs.o.o16:32
ttxgothicmindfood: could you draft your sprint agenda on the wiki ? And include "final discussion/decision on bootstrap vs. semantic-ui" in there ?16:32
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krotscheck2- A wsgi enabled set of API's hosted by apache16:33
krotscheck(via mod_wsgi)16:33
krotscheck3- A database.16:33
gothicmindfoodttx: certainly!16:33
mordredI agree with those16:33
krotscheckThe caveat on 2 is that right now there's still django, but there won't be for long.16:33
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NikitaKonovalovkrotscheck, there is a change by ruhe removing it afaik16:34
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NikitaKonovalovlet me find a link16:34
krotscheckTHere's an additional assumption that we're going to put this on storyboard-dev.o.o and storyboard.o.o16:34
ruhei moved it to WIP until we get something working with new REST API16:34
ruhei guess all these bits (webclient, mod_wsgi and DB) are covered with
krotscheckNow ruhe's done a bunch of work to get the server/pecan stuff set up.16:34
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ttxmordred: about urls: did we say stories vs. storyboard ?16:35
krotscheck(plus all the other holy-shit-productive things he's done)16:35
mordredI think we said stories - with cnames for bugs, blueprints and issues :)16:35
ruhei discuss with fungi and he said that it's not a problem to spin up a server16:35
ruheerr, * i discussed this with *16:35
ttxmordred: that said, the storyboard name is both a codename and a function. And it looks better16:35
mordredI'm fine with any of it16:36
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fungiyes, i can try to apply the puppet change in a dev environment to spin up a server16:36
ruhefungi: i'll setup a repo on github which will be installable by these scripts16:37
ruhebecause some required bits are still on review16:37
krotscheckOk, in the meantime, ttx - can you look at the patch on webclient and get it through? That'll generate a real live tarball for them to work with.16:37
ttxkrotscheck: link16:38
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* ttx thinks krotscheck should have +2, at the very least on the webclient part16:38
* mordred will get that done16:38
krotscheckWoo, I feel all official and stuff16:39
ttxI mean, we are way past my Django skills here16:39
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krotscheckttx: Well, hopefully looking at that patch will show you how easy and awesome and wonderful functional testing in javascript is :)16:39
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mordredkrotscheck: you are now in storyboard-core - I'm not going to bother splitting it in to two core teams right now16:39
ttxmordred: you can second+2/aprv
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krotscheckAny other comments on getting a server?16:42
krotscheckmordred: Thanks16:42
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krotscheckI'll keep my dirty fingers off the python16:42
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mordredkrotscheck: nope. we'll get that and a db spun up16:43
mordredwe'll use a trove db for the database, which is already how ruhe has organized the puppet16:44
mordreddo we need storyboard-dev/16:44
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mordredI believe the intent was that we'd just run pure CD, no?16:44
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mordred(kinda like we do with zuul and nodepool and friends)16:44
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krotscheckOpen discussion?16:45
ruhethe only problem we might hit with pure CD is a broken DB schema. it'll require manual reset of DB and migration16:46
mordredshouldn't we hit that in gating tests though?16:46
mordredkrotscheck: auth discussion/16:46
ruhewe should, but things happen :)16:46
krotscheckmordred: Good point16:47
* krotscheck thinks he's laggy16:47
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krotscheckHrm. Not that laggy16:48
krotscheckSo re: Auth16:48
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ttxoops sorry16:50
ttx#topic Open Discussion16:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:50
ruhekrotscheck: sorry, haven't yet a chance to go through your doc; neither i have any experience in this area16:50
krotscheckGiven that at some point we'll need auth via SSH/Login/OpenID, mordred and ruhe proposed that we make our auth system pluggable16:50
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NikitaKonovalovdoes that mean there should be a plugin mechanizm on a rest side?16:51
ttxwhy SSH/Login ?16:51
krotscheckSince all we really need the plugability for is figuring out who we are, I proposed that we separate the ideas of "authentication" (who are you) and "authorization" (what can you do)16:51
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krotscheckttx: SSH Pub Key16:52
krotscheckLogin for... beats me, actually16:52
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mordredI'm not 100% sold that we'll need ssh - I think if we have oauth for api access that should be fine16:52
ttxright, was just trying to understand the use case16:52
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krotscheckOk, so use case: CLI client. OAuth will work?16:52
mordredI was mainly bringing up that I know of a deployment that's going to want to hook up user accoutns to ldap16:52
ttxoauth sounds enough for auth.*ing between apps16:52
krotscheckmordred: Righto, well, as long as we make authentication pluggable, they can build their own adapter.16:52
mordredyah. launchpadlib uses oauth16:53
ttxI'm fine with it as long as the indirection is not costing us too much16:53
ttxi suspect it doesn't16:53
mordredI think the only thing _we_ need to care about is openid for web and oauth for api16:53
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: Plugin mechanisms sound complicated....16:53
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krotscheckAt the end of the whole auth process, each user (CLI or LDAP or Web) Will have an OAuth2 token with which they authorize.16:54
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mordredany idea, with an external openid source, how we disable users?16:54
mordred(from their oauth stuff)16:55
krotscheckmordred: managing users should be internal to storyboard, no?16:55
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* mordred headsmacks16:55
krotscheckIn the end we still have to keep track of user records anyway, so adding an admin blacklist flag...16:55
ttxok, anything else ?16:56
krotscheckThere are some implementation detail questions we can talk about - how long does the token expire, do we allow refreshes, etc...16:56
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krotscheckbut that's details.16:56
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ttxoh. Any vegetarian/vegan in the sprint group ?16:56
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ttxbecause you know... Brussels.16:56
krotscheckttx: Might want to ask about celiacs, too. Because, you know, Brussles :)16:57
krotscheck(not me)16:57
ttxsame category as Paris in veggie-friendliness16:57
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ttxlast minute thoughts ?16:58
ttxOh. i'll miss next week meeting16:58
ttxI shall be snowboarding somewhere if evrything goes according to plan16:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 16 16:59:17 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:59
openstackMinutes (text):
krotscheckttx: Nice! Chamonix?16:59
ttxkrotscheck: heh, no. Utah.16:59
krotscheckttx: Nice :)17:00
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dkranz#startmeeting qa17:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 16 17:03:48 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dkranz. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:03
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:03
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mkodereraha dkranz you run the meeting17:04
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dkranzYes, Matt wasn't sure he could make it.17:04
dkranzSo who is here today?17:04
giulivome too17:05
andreafHi I'm here but I may have to leave soon17:05
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dkranzSo blueprints is first17:06
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dkranzandreaf: Since you need to leave, is there anything specific from you?17:06
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dkranzok, next up is negative tests17:07
giulivodkranz, on the blueprints, to avoid them growing again out of control, I propose everyone to approve those which have been already discussed17:07
dkranzmkoderer: Do you want to give an update?17:07
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mkodererdkranz: yes y not17:08
dkranzgiulivo: ok17:08
dkranzgiulivo: I think sdague would say we just want to approve those that will actually be worked on now.17:08
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mkodererthe first patch for the negative test blueprint will be ready for review tomorrow17:09
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mkodererIMHO we have all the necessary features in there17:09
dkranzmkoderer: I agree17:09
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dkranzmkoderer: We don't want feature creep before the first real submission17:09
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dkranzmkoderer: I think it strikes the right balance now17:10
dkranzSo we can send an email to the qa list when it is ready17:10
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mkodererok let's do it that way17:10
dkranzAny comments about negative test strategy?17:10
afazekaspositive nagetive tests? :)
mkodererpositive negative test? what? ;)17:11
dkranzafazekas: I'm missing something that you meant by pointing to that review ?17:12
afazekasI saw sever patches which uses different type than we normally use.17:12
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dkranzafazekas: I think that is testing that both int and string work as flavors17:12
afazekasLot of new test case can be created If we really want to test thease int string things17:12
dkranzafazekas: Let's not then.17:13
mkodererI mean the framework the we build could be used for positive tests as well..17:13
dkranzmkoderer: Yes, but only a limited kind17:14
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dkranzBut I don't think we should go there right now.17:14
dkranzAnything else on negative?17:14
mkodererdkranz: that right.. and for me this is something that we can do later17:14
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mkodererno not from me17:14
dkranzrahmu: Config verification status/discussion17:15
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dkranzrahmu: We may need to push this til next week because mtreinish is not here. Or is this a different issue?17:15
dkranzrahmu: You there?17:16
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dkranzrahmu also has the "six" issue so I guess we need to wait for him (her?)17:17
dkranz#topic Critical / High bug review17:17
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dkranzAny bugs we need to deal with?17:17
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dkranzWe are back to 20 or so New bugs17:18
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dkranzmalini: marconi?17:19
dkranz#topic marconi testing17:19
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maliniJust to give everybody some background, Marconi (a.k.a Queueing) is currently in incubation & we are steadily moving towards completing our graduation requirements.17:19
maliniI am working on adding Tempest tests & have some patches already17:20
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maliniI would like some reviews on these17:20
dkranzafazekas: You gave a +1 to the tempest patch17:20
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malini& Also feedback on stuff that we need to get done to graduate17:20
maliniyess..Thanks afazekas again :)17:20
mkoderermalini: I can have look, could you simply add me to the reviewers list?17:21
malinisure !17:21
mkoderereasier for me to find them17:21
afazekasdkranz: it will +2, when the other parts are merged17:21
malinithanks mkoderer17:21
dkranzafazekas: ok, great17:21
maliniafazekas: anything I can do to get the other parts merged?17:21
dkranzmalini: You need to talk to the folks who have approval rights on those projects17:22
dkranzmalini: which is basically the infra team17:22
malinidkranz: thanks! I'll ping in #openstack-infra17:22
afazekasmalini: try to ping core reviews on the other projects at he #openstack-infra17:22
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dkranzmalini: Great17:23
maliniI am planning to add the basic api tests to tempest17:23
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maliniIs that sufficient to graduate?17:23
dkranzmalini: No17:23
dkranzmalini: THere are a whole bunch of other issues17:23
malinidkranz: can I get some pointers on the other stuff?17:24
mkodererdkranz: do we have it somewhere documented what is needed?17:24
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dkranzmalini: I am not sure that is completely up to date17:24
maliniThis is our current plan
maliniBut I am looking specifically for tempest specific stuff17:25
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maliniDid I sacre everybody away?17:26
dkranzmalini: I think having tempest tests that actually run somehow is all that is needed but I don't know about how comprehensive they have to be17:26
dkranzmalini: You need to take that up with the technical committee I think17:27
malinidkranz: ok..I was under the impression that somebidy here would have a say on the tempest part of it17:27
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dkranzmalini: An opinion perhaps17:27
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malinisure dkranz!17:28
dkranzmalini: You should look at the coverage of the other projects to get an idea17:28
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maliniI am looking for all the opinions I can get17:28
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dkranzmalini: But dont look at heat of ceilometer17:28
maliniok :)17:28
dkranzmalini: They were graduated before there was a tempest requirement17:28
maliniwhich would be a good one ?17:29
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dkranzmalini: Perhaps glance17:29
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dkranzmalini: Since it is relatively small17:29
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dkranzagordeev1: ironic testing17:29
dkranz#topic ironic testing17:30
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agordeev1just want to highlight the theme of ironic functional testing17:30
dkranzagordeev1: ok, go ahead17:30
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dkranzagordeev1: You there?17:31
agordeev1the infra/qa guys suggested the way of testing. But i'm not sure if it is the best way to do that17:31
agordeev1so, we introduced the alternative way17:32
agordeev1 and partially implemented it17:32
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agordeev1also started a discussion on mailing list17:32
dkranzagordeev1: I saw that discussion17:32
dkranzagordeev1: I didn't see a negative response to your suggestion17:33
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agordeev1thanks for paying attention to it17:35
dkranzagordeev1: I guess that patch will get reviewed17:35
dkranzagordeev1: Have you gotten any negative feed back?17:35
agordeev1i hope for now we have a time to disccuss the solution and choose the right way17:35
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agordeev1dkranz: no, there is no feedback at all. Only a comment from devananda17:36
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dkranzafazekas: Do you have any comment about this?17:36
* afazekas reading the patch17:37
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dkranzI don't have a strong opinion about this17:37
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vponomaryovgit status17:39
vponomaryovsorry, missed17:39
dkranzvponomaryov: ??17:39
agordeev1i'm hoping of getting more feedback/comments for the next meeting. For now, thank you for letting me to highlight this topic here :)17:41
* afazekas may be the driver calls could be config option ..17:41
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dkranzagordeev1: ok, there are a lot of people not here today due to neutron/tempest Montreal thing17:42
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dkranz#topic Criical reviews17:43
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dkranzWe should continue to watch for heat and ceilometer patches though I don't believe there are any in need of attention right now17:43
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dkranz#topic Open Discussion17:44
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dkranzAny one have anything else to discuss?17:44
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vponomaryovdkranz: one thing17:45
dkranzvponomaryov: Yes17:45
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vponomaryovOn previous meeting, we have discussed refactoring of rest-client
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vponomaryovand we came to the next: add unittests and only one patch17:46
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vponomaryovunittests has been added, and its waiting for review17:47
dkranzvponomaryov: ok, we should review that17:47
dkranzvponomaryov: Thanks17:47
vponomaryovdkranz: ok, thanks17:47
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dkranzAnything else?17:48
rahmudkranz: hey, sorry I was in a work meeting17:48
rahmuis there still time to talk about the use-six blueprint?17:48
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dkranzrahmu: ok, you had two issues17:48
dkranzrahmu: Go ahea17:48
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rahmuI thought we could start preparing for an eventual python 3 migration17:49
rahmuby including the Six library as much as we can17:49
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rahmuother projects are already doing that17:50
rahmuI wrote a blueprint to track this:
rahmuI don't know if the topic has already been discussed in the QA team17:50
rahmuwhat do you guys think about it?17:50
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dkranzrahmu: We need to look at that. I am not familiar with it and am not sure how much code would need to change.17:51
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rahmubriefly, six will do runtime detection of the python version17:52
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rahmuand will replace something like six.iteritems(mydict) with mydict.iteritems() in python 2 and mydict.items() in python 317:52
rahmuthis is how the lib works for the most part17:53
rahmuwe can see here the other projects tracking this effort:
rahmudkranz: any idea when would be the best time to bring this idea up?17:54
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dkranzrahmu: I suggest a mailing list discussion17:54
rahmudkranz: okay will do17:54
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mkodererrahmu: otherwise we can discuss it on the next summit17:55
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mkodererI have doubts that we get py3 support for this release17:55
dkranzYes, you can propose it as a session when the session website comes up17:55
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rahmumkoderer: yeah sure.17:56
dkranzmkoderer: I agree, but have no doubt that we won't17:56
dkranzAnything else before we run out of time?17:56
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dkranzok, our next meeting will be at 22:0017:57
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dkranzThanks, all17:57
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 16 17:57:16 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:57
openstackMinutes (text):
rahmuthanks all, bye17:57
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agordeev1thanks for your time, bye!17:59
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 16 18:00:05 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:00
bdpayneGreetings everyone18:00
bdpayne#topic Rollcall18:00
hyakuheiI'm here but I'm currently in a voice meeting.18:00
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bdpaynewho else is joining today?18:00
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bdpayneok, sounds good18:01
bdpaynelet's start by reviewing action items from last week18:01
bdpayne#topic Action Items18:02
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paulmoPaul Montgomery is here18:02
bdpayneAnyone have anything to report back?18:02
bdpayneList of action items is here:
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nkinderI started a OSSN process wiki page18:02
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malini1Malini here18:02
paulmoI edited the Solum security guidelines page to point to the OSSG guidelines.  I will remove the content from the Solum side completely when I get a chance. :)18:02
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bdpaynenkinder hyakuhei paulmo ewindisch malini1 All took on tasks last week18:03
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bdpaynepaulmo sounds good18:03
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malini1nkinder: thank you for the process linke18:03
malinimalini1: nice to meet you :D But I am getting out of here so fols dont get confused18:03
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nkinderThere has been some discussion on-list about OSSN naming.18:04
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malini1malini: hah hah, would like to meet you in person18:04
hyakuheiThere has? How exciting!18:04
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bdpaynenkinder where does the naming discussion stand?18:04
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nkinderThere are a few different views on naming...18:05
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hyakuheiUnresolved by the looks of things18:05
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nkinderThere are concerns about confusion between OSSAs and OSSNs if we use a similar naming style18:05
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nkinderI was initially thinking of something like OSSN-2014-00118:05
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malini1nkinder: glad I am not the only confused entity18:06
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nkinderThat looks similar to OSSA-2014-001 though.18:06
hyakuheinkinder: +1 on <date><issue>18:06
hyakuheiSo we _can_ do whatever we want...18:06
hyakuheibut we should take the concerns of the VMT into account18:06
hyakuheiThere will be many more OSSNs than OSSAs, the OSSAs may get lots in the noise.18:07
hyakuheiand they're arguably more important18:07
malini1hyakuhei: good to have date stuff, but may be expanding the "A" and "N" would be adequate?18:07
nkinderThierry is thinking of OSSNs as living docs that are more like knowledge base documents that will be updated over time, so he doesn't see a strong need for the name to refer to the date/order of publishing.18:07
nkinderI can see both sides of it honestly.18:07
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hyakuheiA short handle is very useful18:08
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bknudsonare OSSNs published like OSSAs are?18:08
bknudsonif they're living docs then that would be a wiki page or something.18:08
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bknudsonor could be in git repo18:08
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nkinderWe have them on the wiki too now.18:08
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nkinderI've outlined publishing in the process doc, but to summarize it's via e-mail lists and wiki.18:08
bknudsonif it's a living doc then are we going to send an email on every update?18:09
nkinderRight now, naming is just the launchpad #.18:09
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hyakuheiI suggest we continue to discuss this on the email thread18:09
bdpaynemy take is that the particulars of the numbering scheme is not too important, but it is important that we have a consistent numbering scheme to easily refer to these things18:09
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nkinderhyakuhei: +118:09
hyakuheias the VMT have some stakeholderyness18:09
hyakuheiand aren't here18:09
nkinderbdpayne: +1 also :)18:09
bdpayneyeah, email thread discussion sounds good18:09
bdpayneappreciate the update here18:09
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bdpayneany other updates on action items from last week?18:10
nkinderOne other action item of mine was to wrap up the keystone OSSN18:10
hyakuheiI've done 2 of the guidelines, will try to do a lot more this week18:10
hyakuheinkinder: I dropped some comments on your ossn last night18:10
ewindischbdpayne: no - not yet :(18:10
nkinderIt's reviewed by dolph and hyakuhei, but there was one response I wanted hyakuhei to see.18:10
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bdpayneok, sounds good18:11
nkinderhyakuhei: the "in Apache" vs. "behind Apache" comment...18:11
nkinder I think "in Apache" is correct since Keystone is run via mod_wsgi.18:11
bdpayneewindisch we should probably plan something soonish to get it in before the next summit18:11
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hyakuheiI'm happy for you to write it either way, just wanted to point it out and make sure you were happy.18:11
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nkinderbknudson should be able to weigh in since he's on the keystone team.18:11
hyakuheibecause later its referred to as an external entity but yeah, happy either way :)18:12
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bknudsonyou can do remote user even without apache, by putting middleware in the paste pipeline.18:12
ewindischbdpayne: I agree. I've been sorting out my travel plans this week. Until that was settled, it was hard for me to figure out a schedule.18:12
malini1My AR was to review some OSSNs, get my feet wet. I checked out #1227575 -- group deletion deletes all user tokens associated with group and looked at the noVNC advisory18:12
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bdpayneewindisch yeah, no pressure, just an observation :-)18:12
malini1wil look at nkinder process doc and see what next18:12
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bknudsonI prefer "in Apache" rather than "behind Apache" ... people might think you're using Apache as a proxy.18:12
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nkinderbknudson: ok, then I'll add "such as running in Apache" to serve as an example18:13
nkinderI'll get this published today then.18:13
nkindermalini1: thanks!18:13
ewindischbdpayne: TBH, March works best for me, although it's fairly late.18:13
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bdpayneMarch could be ok18:14
bdpayneif it's planned in advance18:14
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bdpayneI just don't want to be planning it in March18:14
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ewindischbdpayne: obviously.18:14
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bdpayneok, so topics of discussion for today?18:14
nkinderhyakuhei: What about your action item to set up a discussion around security review process for ironic?18:14
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hyakuheinkinder: pending...18:15
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nkinderbdpayne: What about summit talks out of our group?  Submissions are open until 2/14.18:15
bdpayne#topcis Today's Agenda18:15
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bdpaynesummit talks... good topic18:15
bdpayneanything else?18:15
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nkinderI wanted to check in on the noVNC OSSN status, but sriram isn't here.18:16
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nkinderIt would be nice to wrap it up.18:16
bdpayneyeah, there's a few things I'd like to get updates on but people are missing18:16
bdpayneI'll try to ping people during the week to ensure that they come to the next meeting so we can get updates18:17
malini1bdpayne: months back we had glossary infrastructure set up for the security guide book, need to weave in references to glossary in the text18:17
bdpayne#action bdpayne to encourage people working on OSSG tasks to attend the next meeting for updates18:17
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bdpaynemalini1 Yes that should be coordinated with the book editors18:17
bdpayne@topic Summit Talks18:18
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bdpayne#topic Summit Talks18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit Talks (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:18
* bdpayne is having typing issues today18:18
bdpayneAnyone planning to submit a talk to the summit?18:18
malini1noVNC had some rtaction for back porting, restricting number of connections, and there was one wrinkle, where conn count would not work18:18
hyakuheiYes, no real idea what18:18
hyakuheiSome OSSG talk would be good18:18
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bdpayneDo we have any insight into if the selection process will be like in the past?18:19
bdpayneCommunity voting and such?18:19
hyakuheiSo anyone who's happy that security is back on the agenda, feel free to send scotch18:19
ewindischbdpayne: pretty early yet, but at least planning one around docker, considering they foot my bills ;-)18:19
hyakuheibdpayne: should be18:19
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ewindischProbably "Best Practices for Docker on OpenStack" -- which would include things like securing the registry18:19
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hyakuheibdpayne: It'd be good if we got this security review done and present on that18:20
ewindischotherwise, still TBD18:20
bdpayne+1 to a talk on the security review18:20
nkinderhyakuhei: That's a good idea.18:20
bdpayneI also like the idea of trying for an OSSG update talk again...18:20
bdpayneNice to share with the community what's going on18:20
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bdpayneso let's push ahead with the Ironic review hyakuhei and then we can think about a talk submission once we have more meat18:21
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bdpayneas for the OSSG talk submission, who'd like to help me with that?18:21
hyakuheibdpayne: +1 for an OSSG talk18:21
bdpaynewe could potentially do a small panel too18:21
nkinderbdpayne: I can help with a basic OSSG update submission18:21
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bdpayneas in, the OSSG talk could be a panel18:22
nkinderI like the panel approach18:22
malini1bdpayne how about covering issues OSSG spotted, i saw you had input on the key manager18:22
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hyakuheiI'm submitting a historical review of OpenStack Security18:22
hyakuheiGoing through all the OSSNs, OSSAs and the stuff that happened before OSSA was a thing18:23
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malini1bdpayne: keystone folks go back and forth on the lifetime of their tokens, and i honestly do not understand why they have so many tokens floating around, why not one user, one token kind of thing, and how to memcache them18:23
hyakuheidoing RCA in places and discussing how to move forward18:23
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malini1think we should understand issues and help it become secure and performant18:23
bdpaynemalini1 I agree, that's a rather big separate issue though18:24
bdpayne#action bdpayne to coordinate with nkinder and hyakuhei for an OSSG talk and/or panel discussion18:24
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bdpayneI'm leaning towards doing something on the security issues specific to private clouds18:25
bdpaynebut... no guarentees on that just yet ;-)18:25
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bdpayne#topic Open Discussion18:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:25
bdpayneok that's all I have for today18:25
bdpayneanything else on people's minds?18:25
malini1bdpayne: mentioned keystone in the context of the keystone group delete, their revoke list etc hard because of number of toekns floating18:26
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malini1bdpayne: in my humble opinion panel on OSSG may not get traction18:26
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bknudsonmalini1: revocation list should be helped by
malini1bdpayne: we may get ++ for bringing in some security best practice, even a focused aspect18:27
hyakuheimalini1: it may not but we do have the security track back again this summit18:27
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nkindermalini1: I think it will depend on what we have in the submission18:27
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hyakuheiThe more submissions the better btw18:28
bknudsondesign summit discussions are typically best when they involve a decision to be made.18:28
hyakuheiI lobbied hard for the security track to return, it'd be good to have plenty to choose from18:28
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malini1hyskuhei: nice to have security track back! nkinder: a talk on OSSNs and OSSAs and how to leverage them, generate them etc, educating the community18:28
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bknudsonlet's be FIPS 140-2 compliant18:28
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bknudsonand NIST 800-13118:29
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bdpayne_sorry guys, I got disconnected18:29
bdpayne_oh boy18:29
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malini1hyakuhei: will tickle my noodles and comme up with a talk, in appreciation of you winning the security track back18:30
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malini1bknudson: thank you, will dig in on the revoc evnt18:30
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malini1malini1 also having a bad type day18:31
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bdpayne_ok, that's all we have time for today18:31
nkinderThanks all!18:31
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 16 18:33:31 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:33
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harlowja#startmeeting openstack-state-management20:00
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openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 16 20:00:05 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_state_management'20:00
harlowjahowdy folks!20:00
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harlowjaanyone around, if not short meeting :)20:01
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harlowjamaybe everyone just busy working :)20:01
harlowjawhich is fine20:01
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harlowjawill wait a few20:02
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harlowjaanyways, i'll update my own status!20:05
harlowja#topic status20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "status (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)"20:05
* harlowja doing reviews, working on scoping20:05
harlowjaflushed out some of the previous action items i had to do20:05
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harlowjawrote up
harlowjahopefully explains the general idea20:06
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harlowjawrote up some of the cinder persistence ideas20:07
harlowjaand started the pros/cons of oslo joining20:07
harlowjaworking with doug on some of this, seeing if i can flush those out20:07
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harlowjahi changbl20:09
harlowjaone sec, need to move rooms, in a meeting room with lots of people :-P20:09
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harlowjamoved to couch, haha20:10
changblreading your status update20:11
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harlowjadidn't get around to documenting *real* zookeeper usage yet20:11
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harlowjawill connect with tooz people on some of this20:11
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harlowjathey are also doing zookeeper stuffs changbl20:12
changbl"The Tooz project aims at centralizing the most common distributed primitives like group membership protocol, lock service and leader election by providing a coordination API helping developers to build distributed applications."20:12
harlowjai wanna use it for locking eventually in taskflow20:13
changbldid not zookeeper/kazoo already provide coordination apis?20:13
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harlowjai think they are more of the api ontop of those services/apis20:13
harlowjanot reinventing zookeeper20:13
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changbli think zookeeper is good enough... :)20:14
changblmove on20:14
harlowjau won't get much disagreement from me (i'm biased, ha)20:14
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harlowjakk, where was i20:14
harlowjaso ya, just doing that writeup, trying to figure out how scopes should work, and what the restrictions are20:15
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harlowjaand working in reviews when i can :)20:15
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harlowjachangbl any status u have, just working on that review, looks like its pretty close :)20:15
harlowjamight just be u and me here, not sure where others are, haha20:16
changblyes, saw you comments of wanting more :)20:16
changblwill work on sometime this week20:16
changblgot diverted to other things20:16
harlowjakk, np20:16
harlowjahopefully not to bad, the exception translating should be easy20:16
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harlowjathx changbl :)20:17
changblthere are other things in my queue for zk20:17
changbllike locking, an example, and ACLs20:17
harlowjafor taskflow or just in general?20:17
changblfor taskflow, sir20:17
harlowjaah, neat, we should connect with jd__ and the tooz folks20:17
harlowjasee where things should land20:18
changbltooz, hmm...20:18
harlowjaand least discuss i think :)20:18
harlowja*at least20:18
changblkazoo, zookeeper, tooz, zake...20:18
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changbllook at these funny names...20:18
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changblyou will give me the write up on how to tesk zookeper with jenkins right?20:19
harlowjathe basic idea i see, at least how tooz is doing it20:20
harlowjain that they setup zookeeper20:20
harlowjaso we could do something similar20:20
changbloh, nice20:20
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changblyou have a run_test.sh20:20
harlowjabut will bug infra about how we can just have zookeeper running automatically (this is how there mysql/postgres works)20:21
harlowjaseems odd that we should have to start much, but maybe we have to, idk20:21
harlowja#action harlowja bug infra about zookeeper usage (perhaps not having to start it ourselves...)20:22
harlowja and all that changbl , but gotta be an easier way i hope20:22
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harlowjawill do that soon, i hope :)20:23
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changblonly one zookeeper instance?20:24
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harlowjaseems like it, its not a full quorum and all that20:24
changblok, i guess it is fine for testing20:25
harlowjabe nice to have infra have a zookeeper server quorum that can just be used20:25
changblthough i use 3 for my testing20:25
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harlowjaya, thats more typical20:25
harlowja#topic help-needed-reviews-integration-other20:26
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harlowjanot sure if anyone around doing much integration, i havent done as much as i want recently20:26
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harlowjasome cinder reviews are getting farther along, i know a nova-snapshot one is also, slowly but surely20:27
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harlowjaso i guess we skip this week, since those people aren't around (or are ok/doing fine)20:28
harlowja#topic checkpointing20:28
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*** openstack changes topic to "checkpointing (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)"20:28
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harlowjaso those people aren't online either, so i guess we can skip that, reviews are up, so feel free to jump on looking at those20:29
changblwhat is checkpointing and why is it needed?20:29
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harlowjaso thats a good question, part of its usage is to revert to a single 'point' instead of full reversion20:30
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harlowja*revert to last checkpoint20:30
changblwhen reaching a checkpoint, what does taskflow do?20:31
harlowjaright, need anatatasia / ivan for that question :)20:31
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harlowjabut my understanding is that acts as a save point20:32
changblsave data into backend?20:32
harlowjaya, right now we save alot of indivudal data20:32
harlowjawhich is fine, but a checkpoint allows us to save less (if its desired)20:32
harlowjaand to also allow for discarding data before the checkpoint20:32
changblstill confused why checkpoint can save less, but i can save my questions for next meeting20:33
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harlowjak, maybe save less is a bad word, but it can collapse the previous tasks that have executed, and discard some of there data20:33
harlowjasay X task produces Y output used by Z task, Z task produces A output, then checkpoint *here*, at this point u can discard Y output20:34
changblwonder how much data can be saved .... it is just one output...20:34
harlowja*that was a made up example ;)20:34
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harlowjaother ideas i think are on there20:35
harlowjabut lets grab those 2 folks and we can get them to dive deeper20:35
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changblwill read it20:36
harlowjabut good questions changbl20:36
harlowja#topic scoping20:37
*** openstack changes topic to "scoping (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)"20:37
harlowjaharlowja what is scoping and why is it needed?20:37
changblyes :)20:37
changblsave me some typing:)20:38
harlowjaso a flaw that i think currently exists in taskflow is that when u construct flows and organize them in a hierachy, and then u submit it to an engine, u don't actually retain that structure when saving (only the root saves all the information)20:39
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harlowjaso u have a hierachy of X flow (which contains Y flow which contains Z flow)20:39
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harlowjaall the details are stored under X (not into there corresponding flow)20:39
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harlowjaso this seems a little confusing to users that expect to examine a logbook and find the details for the given flow Y or Z20:40
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harlowjaso the basic concept is to save it under the corresponding flow instead (which then does retain that connection)20:40
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harlowjait also affects the lookup of requirements for a task (to retain the correct ordering and all that)20:41
harlowjamake more sense?20:41
changbllike ACLs?20:41
harlowjaummm, maybe20:41
harlowjaalso like scoping rules in a programming language (in a way)20:41
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harlowja*so thats why i called it scoping20:42
changbloh, you mean the relation (Z is Y and  Y is in X) is also retained when they are stored in logbook?20:43
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harlowjaso a task exists in one of X or Y right20:43
harlowjaso it would lookup it its local X or Y first (as well as save data there directly)20:44
harlowjaand it would continue up the chain of its visible scopes to find requirements20:44
harlowjathis then retains the correct logbook format, u now find the task results in the flow that u created it in20:44
harlowjainstead of just the root flow20:44
harlowja*which in logbook terms is a flowdetail20:45
changblok, i kind of get what you mean20:45
changblwill this involve changing a lot of code?20:45
harlowjait mainly alters the engine lookup (where these lookups recide, and tracking that scope)20:46
harlowja (some examples there)20:46
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changblk. seems no change to api, which is good20:47
AmriUnixhello guys !!!20:47
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harlowjachangbl only major change is the engine helpers api, which previously just took in the root flow_detail, which now doesn't make sense to just take that in (but it should take in the full logbook instead)20:48
harlowjaAmriUnix hi20:48
changbli think AmrUnix just went in to say hi.... :)20:49
changbland then left20:49
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harlowjachangbl so does that sorta make sense?20:51
harlowjaits a little complicated, i know20:51
* harlowja working on test cases to fully make sure that its ok20:51
changbli think i got what it means20:51
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harlowjaso ya, i'll keep on adding more tests and stuff20:53
harlowja#topic other-work-going-on20:53
*** openstack changes topic to "other-work-going-on (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)"20:53
changbljust wonder, where are other folks today? we used to have many people in this meeting20:55
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harlowjanot quite sure :-/20:55
harlowjai pinged some of them20:55
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harlowjaany other work that people want to bring up / questions?20:55
changblwhere are rackspace folks? did not see them for a while20:55
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harlowjabusy with whatever they are doing i guess, never quite know :-P20:56
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harlowjakk, open discuss for leftover time20:57
harlowja#topic open-discuss20:57
*** openstack changes topic to "open-discuss (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)"20:57
harlowja3 minutes!20:57
changblno more questions from me, I guess we just need to make openstack use taskflow as much as possible20:57
harlowja*make* is a hard one, ha20:58
changbla better word?20:58
harlowjawork with, haha20:58
harlowjaalright, guess it was just me and changbl20:59
harlowjathx changbl for showing up :)20:59
harlowjamaybe more people next time, haha20:59
changblthis concludes all my meeting this week20:59
changblgonna focus on real work now20:59
harlowjafor others #openstack-state-management if u need more :)20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 16 21:00:03 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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russellb#startmeeting nova21:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 16 21:00:52 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:00
russellbhello, everyone!21:01
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russellb#topic general21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "general (Meeting topic: nova)"21:01
russellbnova meetup coming up soon!21:01
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russellbdetails on that page21:01
russellba more recent addition was the etherpad where we'll collect some discussion ideas:
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russellbgeneral idea for the format right now is ... reserve some time for group discussion/presentation, unconference style ... and at least half the time reserved for just working on things together21:02
russellbwhether that's hacking code, reviewing code, reviewing blueprints, talking through tough problems, etc ...21:03
russellbshould be good.21:03
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russellb#topic sub-teams21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "sub-teams (Meeting topic: nova)"21:03
* hartsocks waves21:03
* n0ano gantt21:03
russellbwho wants to give a report and discuss work in sub-teams?  raise hand21:03
russellbhartsocks: you're up first21:03
* melwitt novaclient21:03
* hartsocks waits for slow typists21:03
russellbactually real quick21:04
russellbi should have mentioned in general a quick schedule note ...21:04
russellbicehosue-2 is next week21:04
russellbcode freeze for that is tueseday21:04
russellbso you have < 1 week to get code merged for icehouse-221:04
russellbthat is all on that21:04
russellbhartsocks: ok now you can go21:04
hartsocksOkay, so we're dealing with performance issues on Minesweeper. There's several BP and bugs in flight now on how to get the Minesweeper to sweep faster.21:04
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hartsocksThat's our big deal.21:04
russellbso what kind of performance21:05
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russellbhow long test runs are taking basically?21:05
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hartsocksso we're seeing 4 hours w/o parallel21:06
hartsocksand 2 hours with21:06
russellbparallel with what concurrency21:06
hartsocksthe parallelization stuff causes problems but we're working on it.21:06
russellbcool, sounds like it's helping improve quality :)21:06
russellbthe goal after all21:06
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hartsocksIIRC: we're looking at 4 … but that might have changed since my last look.21:07
russellbOK, just curious21:07
russellbdevstack-gate jobs currently run with 421:07
russellb(but it's a bit too high, we'll talk about that later)21:07
hartsocksso that's the big news for us.21:07
russellbthanks for the updates!21:08
hartsocksI spammed the ML with more details on reveiws21:08
russellbOK, if you #link it in the meeting itll be in the minutes21:08
russellbbut we'll move on for now21:08
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* hartsocks bows out21:08
russellbwill have to check later to make sure it shows up if you do it and not me ...21:09
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russellbn0ano: hi!21:09
russellbso, scheduler stuff.21:09
n0anoscheduler - never heard of it :-)21:09
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russellbsounds like the plan isn't too clear or agreed upon this week21:09
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n0anoflurry of emails on that but I think we can bottom out21:09
russellbfew different ways we can improve it i think ...21:10
russellbwhat are your thoughts?21:10
n0anolooks like the idea of continuous update vs. the nova tree is not in favor, which is OK21:10
n0anothe top idea now is we use the current gantt snapshot and get it working, unit tests and full integration...21:10
russellbOK, that sounds pretty good to me21:11
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russellbthough depending on timing, integration may not work21:11
russellbif it's too far behind nova21:11
n0anoafter that we get all the patches that were needed, re-create the gantt tree from the current nova tree and then update the gantt tree to work again21:11
russellbok, sounds perfect21:11
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russellbif we know we have a path to a gantt that works quite quickly21:11
russellbthen i'm much more open to freezing nova-scheduler at that point21:12
n0anowe should be OK, the current snapshot was a working nova tree so getting it to pass integration test should be possible21:12
n0anoagreed, I don't want to freeze anything until we have a working gantt, no point in stopping development21:12
n0anoI'll send out an email that details this new plan and make sure everyone agrees to it21:12
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russellbsounds good21:13
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russellbdepending on how that comes along, it's also worth considering planning the re-sync after feature freeze21:13
russellbthat timing would work nicely, i think21:13
russellbthen starting with juno dev, all features go to gantt instead of nova21:13
n0anoprobably a good idea, I think it's going to take longer than we wanted to get gantt working but we'll see21:13
russellba clean switch point21:13
russellblet's see how long it takes21:14
russellbbut if it takes until then, i think that's actually OK because the timing is nice21:14
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n0anofor sure, I can's see gantt being a default until after Icehouse21:14
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n0anoothers - no db work is ongoing, there are patches out under review, hopefully they'll go in soon21:15
russellbok, don't think we have that targeted for icehouse-221:15
russellbmust be on icehouse-3 ...21:15
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russellbindeed, icehouse-3 it is21:15
russellbalright, thanks for the updates!21:15
n0anoone other...21:15
n0anoglikson wants reviews for,n,z if people can find the time21:16
n0anojust a gentle reminder21:16
n0anothat's about it for now.21:16
russellbcool, that's one of the ones on the blueprint list for icehouse-221:16
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n0anocodes there, just needs to be reviewed21:17
russellbsounds good21:17
russellbseems we've been struggling a bit to catch back up on the review queue since the holidays21:17
russellbvery slowly improving based on stats21:17
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russellbmelwitt: ok, novaclient!21:18
melwittthe weekly novaclient report 2014/1/16:21:18
melwittopen bugs, 139 !fix released, 90 !fix released and !fix committed21:18
melwitt24 new bugs, 0 high bugs21:18
melwitt33 patches up, 2 are WIP, good activity on reviews (as usual)21:18
melwittI need to catch up on the bug queue, got behind on it because of holiday etc21:18
melwittthat's about it!21:18
russellbcool, status seems stable21:19
russellbnew bug count isn't much higher at all than before holidays, so not bad at all21:19
russellb#topic bugs21:20
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:20
russellbsooo, nova bugs21:20
russellb207 new21:20
russellbcould use plenty of triage help as usual :-)21:20
russellbsome process notes on that if you want to help triage a few bugs:21:20
russellbwe've got 8 critical bugs right now21:21
russellball gate affecting test failures pretty sure.21:21
russellbwhich i wanted to talk a bit about21:21
russellbbecause there has been some good progress lately21:21
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russellbthat link covers some gate failure analysis from last week, and some actions as a result21:22
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jog0russellb: there is also the libvirt gate issues, which running libvirt 1.x *may* fix.21:22
russellbjog0: yes21:22
jog0but we don't even know of nova works with libvirt 1.x21:22
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russellbmy feeling is that the biggest improvement would be seen by merging:
russellbbut it hasn't had much attention, unfortunately21:22
jog0so nova-network was only hurting large-ops which hasn't been faling lately21:23
russellbthat's not true21:23
russellbit was causing most of the failures i was seeing in the "timed out waiting for thing" bug too21:23
russellbwhich was the #2 gate bug21:23
russellbfurther, it's also going to help the #1 gate bug, the ssh timeout thing21:23
russellbbecause it seems even that is largely performance related21:24
russellb(they had some bugs too)21:24
russellbnote the neutron guy's comment on the review, as well21:24
russellbthe vast majority of the top failures are performance related due to the tests overloading nova+nova-network or nova+neutron21:24
russellbwas my conclusion from last week21:24
jog0russellb: hmm lets talk after21:25
russellbregarding nova-network, we've landed a few small changes21:25
russellband we also have this patch series that dan and I have been doing this week ...,n,z21:25
russellbwhich will speed up nova-network quite a bit21:25
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russellbwe've been busting our tails on that this week, largely as a response to realizing that the performance was a root cause (and that the mitigating patch is being ignored :-( )21:25
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russellbanyone else have some bug related topics for today?21:26
jog0russellb: FWIW jeblair is on vacation this week  and infra is barebones right now21:26
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jog0and dealing with many issues21:26
russellbOK, guess I didn't really have insight into issues they're fighting21:27
driptonIt would be good if all the good reviews that fix real bugs got reviewed in time for Icehouse-2.  The slow review queue hurts.21:27
russellbyeah, hard to make that process go much faster21:27
russellbwe have a lot of icehouse-2 targeted bugs -
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russellb#topic blueprints21:28
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)"21:28
russellbspeaking of icehouse-2 ...21:28
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russellbwe've merged 8 blueprints so far for icehouse-221:28
russellbour velocity is down a good bit compared to last cycle21:28
russellbsome of that is holidays, some of it is gate issues, some of it is just lower availability of the core team it seems21:28
russellbbut if the core team could help out in the next few days doing a review push for icehouse-2, that'd be great21:29
jog0russellb: FWIW I would prefer to see a push on fixing gate issues first, that will improve general velocity21:29
russellbi used to have an easy way to email that group directly, but don't anymore :(21:29
jog0but thast not really an xor issue21:29
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russellbjog0: sure, been trying21:30
russellbthat's where all the nova-network performance work came from this week21:30
russellbwould love help from more people21:30
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jog0russellb: maybe this week can be libvirt21:30
jog0russellb: ++21:30
russellbtrying to track current status here:
russellbjog0: yeah, that can be next after this nova-network series lands i think21:30
jog0russellb: woot21:30
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russellbany blueprint topics?21:31
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russellbnote that we've completed 21 blueprints so far out of about 150 icehouse blueprints, heh21:31
russellb118 targeted at icehouse-3 right now21:32
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russellbso if you own one or more of those ... be prepared for some sort of major adjustment soon after icehouse-221:32
russellbperhaps an early code proposal deadline21:32
russellbbecause there's absolutely no way all of that can make it in 1 milestone21:32
russellbso we'll have to start doing a reality check and cutting it early21:32
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russellbicehouse is flying by ...21:32
russellbfor reference:21:33
russellb#topic open discussion21:33
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:33
russellbany other topics for today?21:33
russellbalrighty then21:35
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russellbas usual, #openstack-nova open for discussion throughout the week21:35
russellbthanks, everyone!21:35
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:35
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 16 21:35:45 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:35
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