Thursday, 2014-01-23

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stevebaker#startmeeting heat00:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 23 00:00:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.00:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"00:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'00:00
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stevebaker#topic rollcall00:00
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stevebakerliang: welcome!00:01
liangstevebaker, hehe, finally ;)00:01
stevebakerwe need to get nanjj attending these ones too00:02
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liangwill let him know next time00:03
stevebaker#topic Review last meeting's actions00:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Review last meeting's actions (Meeting topic: heat)"00:03
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stevebakerJan 27th Heat Tempest Awesome Fun Day00:04
stevebakerwas the only action00:04
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randallburt:( I'll be on travel for the Glance summit.00:05
randallburtwas looking forward to that.00:05
SpamapSI'm here but only for 10 minutes.00:05
stevebakerit would be great if everyone could have a day working on tempest. I will point out that our big icehouse-2 regression would have been caught by the tests we already have, if only they ran in the gate00:05
randallburtstevebaker:  what borked? I missed all of that.00:06
zanebstevebaker: is there a list of _what_ to work on in Tempest?00:07
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SpamapSstevebaker: what? we don't run our tempest tests in the gate?00:07
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stevebakerzaneb: you can work on what you like. If you've never run tempest locally then give it a go. If you wanted to write a test then it would be a good day to start it. And some of us (at least me) will be trying to get the heat-slow tests running in gate00:08
stevebakerSpamapS: we run our tests, but not the ones which spawn VMs00:09
SpamapSstevebaker: _curses_00:10
stevebakerSpamapS: you can run them and see what happens by commenting "check experimental" in a gerrit review00:10
SpamapSstevebaker: well when we have a baremetal cloud in the gate we damn well better run those ;)00:10
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stevebakergiven the svelte-gate plans that have just been announced, maybe we should move the experimental gate job to be a non-voting check job on heat soon00:11
liangstevebaker, so those spawning VMs will be ran after Jan 27th?00:11
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stevebakerliang: they will if we can debug why the test fails in the gate. It could be just timeouts due to booting virt in virt00:12
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liangstevebaker, I see00:13
stevebaker#topic adding items to the agenda00:14
*** openstack changes topic to "adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"00:14
stevebakerwhich is currently very short ;)00:14
stevebaker#topic icehouse-2 release00:15
*** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-2 release (Meeting topic: heat)"00:15
stevebakerThe wedged gate queue has meant things that should be in i-2 didn't make it, which is a shame but was the least worst option00:16
stevebakerwith the exception of the fix for which we really need00:16
stevebakerso heat will be tagged as soon as is in00:17
stevebakerplease keep an eye on that change and help nurse it through00:17
stevebaker#topic Open Discussion00:18
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randallburtstevebaker:  Its not an i2, but I haven't had a chance to look more at bug 1206702 due to some family issues that cropped up, but its still on my radar for i300:18
stevebakerok, thanks00:18
stevebakerliang: so these meetings are usually a little more involved ;) , feel free to bring things you want to discuss00:19
randallburtseems pretty quiet for our first alt-time meeting...00:19
SpamapSWord needs to get out00:19
SpamapSGive it time. :)00:20
liangstevebaker, yup00:20
stevebakerI've updated teh wikis00:20
randallburtand I corrected team members on their bad time conversion00:20
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stevebakerso our review queue has been growing and I'm sure part of the reason is an increase in commits00:21
stevebakerbut it feels like core review rate has been quite low recently - I have no numbers to back this up00:22
SpamapSstevebaker: check queue is also behind so I think commits sit longer while people wait for a +1 from jenkins.00:22
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zanebfor me, part of it is that each review is taking longer00:23
SpamapSCore team size: 11 (avg 1.8 reviews/day)00:23
zanebI think that's mainly because we have lots of new contributors00:23
SpamapSNew patch sets in the last 30 days: 725 (24.2/day)00:23
randallburtyikes. though that's kinda awesome.00:23
SpamapSjust barely keeping up00:23
clarkbstevebaker: SpamapS: mikal also has numbers
SpamapSaw snap00:24
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SpamapS  Queue growth in the last 30 days: 41 (1.4/day)00:25
* asalkeld being a bit slack00:25
stevebakeranyway, during i-3 there are going to be a lot of features which require good architecture review, and early in the cycle00:25
SpamapSthat tells me that core reviewers need to do 2 more reviews every day to get ahead of things00:25
asalkeldthat web site is not working for me00:26
stevebakertalk amongst yourselves while I update that chart for current heat-core00:27
randallburtasalkeld:  me either. blank page00:27
SpamapSanyway, -> get kids00:27
clarkbare you noscripting?00:27
SpamapSbut we may need to start prioritizing new-reviewer-reviewing over reviewing ... 11 is a lot.. but we've got a crazy number of patches00:28
SpamapSnoscript? People still do that?00:28
* SpamapS out00:28
zanebI win today :D00:29
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* stevebaker gives zaneb the propeller hat00:29
stevebakerI don't have anything else, shall we finish up?00:30
zanebwas there a conclusion?00:30
zanebeverybody work harder?00:30
randallburtdo more reviews.00:30
* randallburt especially :(00:31
stevebakerthe beatings will continue00:31
randallburtare we ready for more core?00:31
stevebakerrandallburt: possibly. I'll take a look at the potentials00:32
randallburtI might be a little biased because I work with him, but jbd has been doing lots of good work and his numbers are good.00:32
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randallburtI'm hesitant to nominate because we are on the same team and have the same folks sign our paychecks, though.00:32
stevebakeryes, I need to do the new-reviewer-reviewing thing. He is top of the list00:33
randallburtnot sure if that matters.00:33
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stevebakeranything else?00:34
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"00:34
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 23 00:34:58 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)00:35
openstackMinutes (text):
stevebakerThats like 25 extra minutes of reviewing time!00:35
stevebakeryou're welcome :D00:35
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lianghaha, reviewing00:35
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mattgriffinstevebaker: ping03:55
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mattgriffinhi stevebaker. i missed the heat meeting earlier :( was wanting to ask about any how-to's for creating templates03:56
mattgriffinand also to say hi03:56
stevebakermattgriffin: we could do better, but we have and
stevebakerthe template guide needs much more how-to content, maybe we'll get time to write some after feature freeze03:57
stevebakermattgriffin: you can also ask for help in #heat03:58
mattgriffinstevebaker: cool. thanks!03:58
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enikanorov_neutron lbaas meeting in 2 minutes13:57
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sbalukoffHowdy, y'all!13:59
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enikanorov_#startmeeting neutron lbaas14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 23 14:00:35 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is enikanorov_. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas'14:00
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enikanorov_I've send an email with lbaas status update yesterday14:01
enikanorov_we have a few items to discuss14:02
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samuelbercovicihi all14:02
enikanorov_they are ssl extension, l7 rules and API14:02
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enikanorov_Hi Sam14:02
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enikanorov_on ssl extension... i've asked Mark to join, but apparently he's travelling, so i'm not sure if he is able to attend14:03
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enikanorov_oh, cool14:03
enikanorov_markmcclain: hi14:03
enikanorov_right on time :)14:03
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enikanorov_(i've just mentioned you)14:03
enikanorov_hi vjay14:04
enikanorov_so the main item to discuss right now is the API and ssl extension in particular14:04
vjaywould like to know what is happening to changes and the order of commit planned14:05
enikanorov_last time we tried to find approach to add ssl, but we're lacking reliable open source backend for that14:05
vjaychanges like the loadbalancer instance14:05
enikanorov_vjay: we'll discuss it a bit later14:05
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enikanorov_markmcclain: the proposal was to add ssl as vendor extension. as far as I recall you had a concern about 'uneven API experience'14:06
enikanorov_could you elaborate?14:06
markmcclainenikanorov_: sure14:06
enikanorov_because I believe whole ability of choosing provider is about different capabilities, and possibly, different API14:07
markmcclainthe API can get messy when we start creating extensions to extensions14:07
markmcclainsay we have to 2 different providers with different capabilities14:07
enikanorov_right. but we're already doing it with 'core extensions'14:07
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markmcclainright but there is a framework for discovery there14:08
markmcclainif we have to 2 different providers who support a different feature set how would a consumer consume it?14:08
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markmcclainand know that say provider A provides SSL support and provider B does not14:09
enikanorov_consumer should know that certain resource available with certain service+provider14:09
markmcclainenikanorov_: how is that learned?14:09
markmcclainit needs to be noted this is similar problem for ml2 too14:10
enikanorov_we have a way to know supported extensions. we can add that information there14:10
enikanorov_markmcclain: yes, ml2 is similar14:10
markmcclaindiscoverability is a solvable problem14:10
enikanorov_[{'service': core, 'provider': 'abc', 'extension': 'def'}]14:10
samuelbercoviciTo move from the "big" extension discussion. SSL is implemented as an extension because: 1: we want to have this up and running as an expeimental API and then get it as part of the standarad API 2: we are not sure yet how the ha proxy implementation will go14:11
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markmcclainenikanorov_: that is certainly one approach that we can follow14:11
markmcclainsamuelbercovici: right don't forget there was some discussion about pairing with stunnel to provide a open implementation14:12
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samuelbercovicimarkmcclain: correct14:12
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markmcclainchatting with friends at other companies I know this is a pattern that actively deployed14:13
samuelbercovicibut the decision to go into the extnesion path was before14:13
markmcclainI don't think I'll be able to get them to contribute code though14:13
sbalukoffmarkvan: Outside of Openstack, I've built two load balancer "appliance" products which use stunnel as terminator for SSL + haproxy as load balancer--  this is very reliable.14:13
samuelbercoviciyes, it is actually the pattern de-facto for ha proxy with ssl14:13
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samuelbercovicithe other part was the move to use something lica babican in the eventual API14:14
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enikanorov_i think whole question goes down to allowing vendors to implement what their need without being blocked by the lack of opensource solution14:15
enikanorov_when it is not a common code (common extension)14:16
markmcclainI get that.. I just don't want 4 slightly different implementations in the extensions14:16
samuelbercovicienikanorov_: which is an excellent question, it is just not relevant to SSL as SSL is planned to be implemented by averyon, same as L714:16
sbalukoffWell, and sometimes opensource solution might have features vendors don't support (eg. SNI support, SSL cipher selection, etc.)14:16
enikanorov_samuelbercovici: but right now this is directly related to ssl14:17
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markmcclainsbalukoff: yes there should room for supporting different features, but I think we need a baseline first14:17
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sbalukoffmarkmcclain: True.14:18
samuelbercovicilet me rephrase. extensions can be a way for vendors to implement "private" capabilities and it can also be used to impelement "experimental" capabilities untill theyr move to core14:18
markmcclainsamuelbercovici: that is true14:18
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enikanorov_right, so I'm asking why we can't make ssl such extension14:19
markmcclainbut even then we still have to be careful with what we release14:19
enikanorov_and then move it to core once we implement stunnel+haproxy14:19
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sbalukoffmarkmcclain: Are you arguing that SSL support is so central to LBaaS that it should be a core feature that, for the most part, is implemented the same across vendors?14:19
markmcclainbecause there are security obligations that we implicitly make with the community14:19
samuelbercoviciFor SSL we use "extension" not be cause this is private radware, but because we want to have it as an :experimentl" api14:19
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markmcclainsbalukoff: I'd like a solid base that as many vendors implement as possible14:20
sbalukoffmarkmcclain: I'm with you on that, eh.14:20
samuelbercovicisbalukoff: yes, this is exactly the way this was planned. We have discussed with other load balancer vendors to get to an agreement on the API, same that we did for L714:20
enikanorov_markmcclain: how about vendor-specific features?14:20
enikanorov_markmcclain: there are very basic ones, but we can't call them a baseline14:21
markmcclainenikanorov_: that's really the crux of the issue14:21
enikanorov_like routed-solutions14:21
enikanorov_or appliance-based14:21
markmcclainwe have the ability to iterate over time14:21
enikanorov_I don't think every vendor needs to implement them14:22
samuelbercovicimarkmcclain: I agree that we must have a wide baseline with standarad APIs. Baic L4, SSL and L7 and probably a few more should define the base line.14:22
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sbalukoffenikanorov: So, your point is that because not all vendors are going to implement the same features, and because we want to expose these features somehow, a need for vendor-specific extensions is always going to exist, right?14:23
enikanorov_sbalukoff: yes14:23
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enikanorov_sbalukoff: that was already solved by vmware by making their own service plugin14:23
enikanorov_specific to their backend solution14:24
sbalukoffSo, then it's a matter of deciding what is "core" functionality that almost all vendors should be able to do, so that consumers can rely on that much at least-- and still provide a way to exentend API with vendor-specific features which make vendors' products more useful.14:24
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markmcclainsbalukoff: yes14:24
samuelbercovicienikanorov_: although it might use the same approach, there is difference between stating which standard capabilities are supported and between supporting "private" "non-standard" ones14:25
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vjayas said earler: L4, SSL & L7 is available with most vendors, it should be part of baseline14:25
markmcclainthat's my feeling14:25
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markmcclainso taking deliberate steps with the API is really what we want to do here… the freeze is not too far away… I'd rather release code with less features that we know wrk than trying to be cover every customization now14:26
enikanorov_agree with vjay14:26
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enikanorov_markmcclain: agree as well, though I'm more concerned about the ability for vendors to contribute14:27
markmcclainenikanorov_: how so?14:27
enikanorov_because each month i see patches from vendors which try to amend core lbaas API with their specific bits14:27
enikanorov_that's what I'd like to sort out, keeping the API clean but extensible14:28
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markmcclainright..but that is part of the blueprint process and consensus building14:28
sbalukoffenikanov: So they need to be directed to put these in their own vendor-specific extensions. Problem being that there is no way to do vendor-specific extensions just yet?14:28
sbalukoffSorry, enikanorov_14:29
enikanorov_the problem that we still undecided if vendor-specific extensions is what we want to see14:29
enikanorov_but honestly i don't see another way of supporting a variety of vendors under the same hood of lbaas14:29
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sbalukoffGood point. So no better ideas (or even competing ideas) have been shared on this?14:30
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markmcclainyeah the vendor extensions to drivers hasn't really had an idea that's gained momentum14:31
markmcclainbut that's ok because we can still work in parallel here14:31
markmcclainby implementing the common subset into the core API14:31
markmcclainand then figuring out how the extension mechanisms would work14:32
enikanorov_markmcclain:applications of such framework are:14:32
enikanorov_agent scheduling, device binding, router binging14:32
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enikanorov_all that is backed-specific and really not related to lbaas api itself14:32
enikanorov_generec lbaas api i mean14:33
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markmcclaincorrect which is why for the new items we should focus on the API first14:34
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sbalukoffIf we want to expose vendor-specific features, I also don't see a good way to do this without providing a mechanism for extending the API. markmcclain, is the concern here that vendors implentations of core features will diverge too much if we don't actually put these feature in the core API?14:35
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enikanorov_agree, going back to ssl, my point was that making it a vendor extension is just a way of letting some folks (vendors and customers) to move forward and try it14:35
edhallsbalukoff, as a customer, that is exactly my concern14:36
markmcclainsbalukoff: yeah divergence is one concern14:36
sbalukoffedhall: Mine too.14:37
enikanorov_implementation of core features should not happen, at best14:37
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sbalukoffYes. So again, we're back to what's been agreed on as core, plus providing a way for vendors to extend these features, which I think is what enikanorov is advocating.14:37
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sbalukoffAnd specifically SSL in this case.14:38
markmcclainenikanorov_: I am not excited about the idea of saying here is this optional extension a vendor can implement without us having gone through the process in the opensource version first14:39
enikanorov_markmcclain: there are cases where we will not have opensource analog at all14:39
enikanorov_for instance, if vendor provides appliance-based solution14:40
edhallwe should encourage vendors to contribute one14:40
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enikanorov_he may want to enable some API for cloud operator to manage appliances14:40
markmcclainenikanorov_: the API and implementation are two different issues14:40
enikanorov_but that's unnecessary for, say, haproxy14:40
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enikanorov_markmcclain: right, but what would be opensource analog in this case?14:41
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markmcclainenikanorov_: when we're speaking API were talking about the logical state14:43
markmcclainso I'm failing to see how appliances impact the API discussion14:44
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markmcclainappliances are an implementation detail correct?14:44
enikanorov_appliances need API to manage. exiting opensource solution (haproxy) doesn't need it14:44
enikanorov_or, in fact, it needs different API (agent scheduling)14:45
markmcclainappliance management has always seems like a separate issue from the logical API14:45
enikanorov_it's not the management itself14:46
sbalukoffenikanorov: We could do an haproxy "software appliance" approach which runs LBaaS on compute instances. (I was actually going to propose this myself, as I've implented it twice already? Just need to figure out how to contribute to Openstack in a meaningful way) I really like the idea of being able to split load balancer function away from network as a service function for various reasons.) But that's probably not a qui14:46
sbalukoffck thing to implement here, but it would be analogous to a vendor's appliance solution.14:46
enikanorov_it's letting know the service that certain appliance exist ans is available14:46
enikanorov_sbalukoff: yes, that would be another use case that could leverage such API14:47
sbalukoffAnd it is purely open source.14:47
pcarverForgive me for jumping in late and in the middle, but I wanted to note that some customers have strong opinions on load balancer appliance vendor.14:47
markmcclainsbalukoff: so creating an appliance is viable now14:47
sbalukoffmarkmcclain: Yes.14:48
markmcclainjust write a driver that spins up and manages VMs for load balancing14:48
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pcarverSo even though we might argue they shouldn't, they may strongly want to select WHICH load balancer vendor their LBaaS runs on14:48
sbalukoffmarkmcclain: Exactly.14:48
markmcclainthe tenant doesn't really need to know how it is implemented14:48
enikanorov_markmcclain: sbalukoff: so vendors should wait for such provider to appear before they can offer their appliance-based solutions?14:48
sbalukoffpcarver: This is true.14:48
markmcclainpcarver: that's where I think part of our abstractions need work14:49
markmcclainwe have service providers, but what we really need are flavors14:49
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edhallAs a customer I (1) want to avoid vendor lock-in and (2) not have to maintain a whole layer of software infrastructure to deal with each vendor's implementaion of basic management functions.14:49
sbalukoffenikanorov: No, I personally think a way for vendors to extend API is going to be necessary somehow, and I've not yet heard a viable solution other than the one you've suggested.14:49
sbalukoffBut markmcclain is right that SSL should have a base support in the API as well.14:49
pcarvermarkmcclain: Agreed on functionality, just pointing out that for some customers they may want to be able to control vendor selection via API14:49
sbalukoffWhich, again, I think was agreed on already (along with L4 and L7)14:50
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markmcclainpcarver: nothing stops someone from naming the flavors to match the vendors who implement it14:50
enikanorov_sbalukoff: i'm all in for making ssl a part of core lbaas API. as far as i understand, the concern is in implementation14:50
sbalukoffGot it.14:50
samuelbercovicipcarver: if the service provide has the vendor name in it, than the end user, can choose the service provider which also means the vnedor14:50
markmcclainusing flavors also enables dual vendor strategies and avoids lockins14:51
pcarverOk, makes sense.14:51
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markmcclainbecause the deployer can aggregate the providers with similar capabilities into the same flavor14:51
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markmcclainenikanorov_: yes.. implementation is the tricky part for ssl14:52
pcarverJust wanted to make sure folks were aware that some customers, perhaps we might call them "not cloud savvy" want their cloud to be somewhat non-cloudy and guarantee them various specific vendor choices.14:52
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markmcclainpcarver: yes there is definitely a range of deployers where some users want tenats to have more choice and others were there is less14:53
pcarverI personally think they're a bit silly. But they definitely exist and have strong opinions on what they want to buy.14:53
sbalukoffpcarver: Yep! I agree this is a primary customer concern.14:53
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enikanorov_markmcclain: so what is your opinion on ssl for lbaas in I? what is the best plan?14:55
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iwamotowhat we are trying to do is to build mappings from openstack API to vendor specific mgmt API or config files. this cannot be easy14:55
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markmcclainenikanorov_: I think SSL is a good idea…the real issue is I'm not aware of an implementation where I'm comfortable with it's security14:56
markmcclain*API implementation14:56
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sbalukoffmarkmcclain: Sending SSL certs via unencrypted rabbit, for example?14:56
enikanorov_i think we need some clear decision before putting more efforts in it14:56
enikanorov_are we going to wait for haproxy 1.5 release?14:57
vjaymark: just before we close down. want to know your opinion on the hold on NetScaler driver.14:57
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samuelbercovicienikanorov_: we should not wait for 1.5, 1.4 with stuneel is fine14:57
sbalukoffenikanorov: I would say we can do with with stunnel + haproxy approach.14:57
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markmcclainvjay: I still need to do an in depth review14:57
enikanorov_so, should we implement stunnel + haproxy for ssl to merge into core?14:58
vjaymark: ok, you need to do a review of the driver?14:58
markmcclainstunnel is an acceptable direction to move now14:58
sbalukoffmark's concern about security still needs a solution.14:58
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sbalukoffSpecifically, how to send SSL certs.14:58
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enikanorov_sbalukoff: i think that is solvable.14:59
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markmcclainvjay: either I'll do it or it will get picked up by one of the other cores on our team15:00
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vjaysure, we were planning for i2.15:01
jd__(wrapping up?)15:01
enikanorov_thanks everyone15:01
markmcclainvjay: I-2 has been cut15:01
enikanorov_i think we need to continue to discuss all that in the ML15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:02
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 23 15:02:03 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:02
markmcclainso I-3 is next milestone release15:02
openstackMinutes (text):
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jd__#startmeeting ceilometer15:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 23 15:03:44 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:03
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jd__#topic Milestone status icehouse-2 / icehouse-315:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Milestone status icehouse-2 / icehouse-3 (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:05
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jd__so icehouse-2 is being released right now15:05
eglynna tad disappointing how things panned out overall with icehouse-215:05
* jd__ nods15:05
eglynn... i.e. chronic problems in the gate caused stuff that was ready to go to be bumped to i-3 :(15:06
eglynn... /me would have preferred if the milestone was delayed by a few days to allow the verification queue to drain15:06
nadya_my fix became merged after 2 hours after releasing i-2 :(15:06
eglynnyep, I had similar with a BP15:06
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ildikov_my fix also failed on the gate...15:07
ildikov_so it is at the end of the waiting list right now15:07
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eglynnupside: it gives us a head-start on our icehouse-3 slate15:07
jd__we also need to triage icehouse-315:07
eglynnnote we've only 5 full person-weeks of dev time remaining before the freeze for icehouse-315:08
eglynn... gotta put my hand up, I'm usually one of the worst offenders for landing stuff late in the cycle15:08
eglynn... however for i-3 lets try to aim for a more even flow-rate on BP patches15:08
eglynn(... as there's gonna be an even bigger rush on the gate for i-3)15:08
jd__if you have blueprint for icehouse-3, please update15:08
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eglynn(... given the amount of stuff that was bumped off i-2, plus the natural backloading onto the 3rd milestone that always happens in every OS release)15:09
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ildikov_jd__: I have a bp for i-3, which depends on the complex query one15:09
ildikov_jd__: it would be good to get the complex query discussion fixed in the early phase of i-3 as the feature is ready to fly already15:10
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jd__we'll try to do that indeed15:11
nadya_we need to hurry up right now :) a lot of things to discuss15:11
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ildikov_jd__: tnx15:11
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eglynnover the final 2-3 weeks of the icehouse-3 leadin, one possible strategy is to prioritize BPs over bugfixes15:12
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eglynn(... much easier to get a bugfix landed post i-3 than to beg a FFE on an unfinished BP)15:12
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eglynn... justsayin15:13
llu-laptopeglynn: +115:13
dhellmanneglynn: prioritizing reviews on anything associated with a bp or bug report between now and then seems like a good idea, too -- encourage people to help with project tracking by filing the right "paperwork"15:14
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jd__I think we'll rediscuss this next week too anyway15:14
jd__just update your bp in the meantime15:14
jd__dhellmann: +115:14
eglynndhellmann: absolutely15:14
jd__moving on as we have a lot of topic15:14
jd__#topic Tempest integration15:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Tempest integration (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:14
jd__nadya_: a word on that?15:14
nadya_Our client is apporoved! Congrats :)15:15
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nadya_But we still facing with problems. There is a bug in devstack (and tempest) about processing the last '/' in the url.  #link
jd__clap clap clap15:15
dhellmannnice work!15:15
ildikov_nadya_: +115:15
nadya_because of this we have -1 from Jenkins here #link
nadya_but we are working on fix15:16
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nadya_Besides, we have two nova-related patches: #link and #link . yassine, do you have any news:)?15:16
nadya_if you are here...15:17
nadya_We are still working on pollsters testing. Tempest part is started but we need #link for testing. JFYI15:17
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nadya_and the last point is alarm testing. It is lost #link . Nick, nsaje, are you here?15:18
jd__I'd suggest to steal the patch if it's not restored15:18
jd__otherwise that looks really good, thanks for taking care nadya_15:19
nadya_yep, actually Vadim has started to fix alarm patch15:19
eglynnnadya_: great! thanks15:19
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nadya_So I think that's all from my side on this topic15:19
nadya_ur welcome :)15:19
jd__great :)15:19
jd__#topic Release python-ceilometerclient?15:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:19
eglynnI need this patch to land asap:
jd__I'll review15:20
eglynna super-simple fix15:20
eglynnbut the alarm-threshold-create verb is pretty much borked without it15:20
eglynn(legacy alarm-create verb works fine tho')15:20
ildikov_eglynn: it looks good on the gate now15:20
eglynnildikov_: cool, thanks15:21
jd__#topic Discussion of the resource loader support patch15:21
eglynnonce that's landed I'll cut a new client15:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Discussion of the resource loader support patch (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:21
jd__eglynn: ack :)15:21
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jd__I still failed to read that thread15:21
llu-laptopjd__: what's your concern about the 'not generic enough'?15:22
jd__my main concern is that we externalized resources in an external file with a different module for handling it15:22
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jd__whereas I see no reason to not have it into the pipeline definition15:22
jd__and the problem solved like caching are not to be solved at that level15:23
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lsmola_jd__: hmm what about resourecs that we want to have automatically retrieved15:24
llu-laptopi just want to give the admin a way to get resource endpoints without restarting the agent15:24
jd__lsmola_: could you elaborate?15:24
lsmola_jd__: for example for tripleo, we will ask nova to give us list of IPs15:24
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lsmola_jd__: should we implement that as part of inspector logic that can be turned on?15:25
llu-laptoplsmola_: i think we can have a restful resource loader then15:25
jd__llu-laptop: reloading the file is a different problem, don't try to solve two problems at the same time15:25
lsmola_jd__: or should this reside somewhere aprat from ceilometer as plugin15:25
jd__llu-laptop: if we want to have automatic reload of config file, we'll do that in a generic way for all files for example15:25
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jd__lsmola_: that would be a sort of extension for getting resources list, we don't have that yet, but we could build something around that ultimately15:26
lsmola_jd__: ok, rbrady will probably do it once the patches are in15:26
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lsmola_jd__: I just wanted to make sure that it make sense to have it in the ceilometer codebase15:26
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jd__lsmola_: basically we already list resources when we poll for things like instances (we list instances)15:27
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lsmola_jd__: when you can use it only when you deploy openstack via tripleo15:27
jd__llu-laptop: does that help you?15:27
llu-laptopjd__: so your suggestion is to drop the resource loader idea, and leave it to the pollster or inspector themselves?15:28
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lsmola_jd__: ok then, we will send the patch, thank you15:28
jd__llu-laptop: no, it have them part of the pipelines definition15:28
llu-laptopjd__: add another pipeline definition 'resourceloader'?15:29
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jd__llu-laptop: "resources" for the resources list you want, and if you don't know the resource list, then it's up to the pollster to be able to build one I guess15:29
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jd__if there can be different type of resource list for a pollster, yeah having a resourceloader parameter for a pipeline would make sense15:30
jd__so far we have an implicit resourceloader for all pollsters15:30
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llu-laptopjd__: ok this is just what I mean by saying 'leave it to the pollster'15:31
jd__llu-laptop: understood :)15:31
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eglynne.g. a resource loader for the compute agent that polls nova-api?15:31
jd__llu-laptop: I'm ok with 'leave it to the pollster' if there is no corner case, at least for now maybe15:31
eglynn(... to discover the local virts)15:32
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jd__eglynn: yeah, we have that already, but it's used implicitely anyway15:32
llu-laptopeglynn: I think the compute agent pollsters already does that, don't they?15:32
jd__I don't know if we need to make it explicit in the pipeline – I don't know if there are cases where it might be useful to be able to change it15:32
eglynnyep, but just wondering for consistency would that be moved into the new resourceloader sbatraction?15:32
jd__eglynn: it should, if we go that road15:32
llu-laptopso currently, we don't see any imediate needs for resource loader15:33
jd__llu-laptop: I don't but I am not the sacred holder of All The Use-Cases15:33
jd__so if you see use-cases, go ahead15:33
dhellmannI may be missing some context, but I think this is part of what the "cache" argument passed to the pollsters was supposed to help with.15:34
eglynnon a side-note ... I was a little stumped also by the concept that the baremetal hosts had no user or project ID being metered15:34
jd__OTOH let's not implement YACO (Yet Another Config Option) just for sake of having one15:34
eglynnlsmola_: does tripleo and/or ironic surface the "identity" associated with baremetal hosts?15:34
jd__dhellmann: the question is about what's put inside the cache and by who :)15:34
eglynn(... even if it's always an administrative user/tenant)15:34
dhellmannif there was a set of pollsters that needed some data (the resources), a base class could load them and store them in the cache on each iteration15:34
dhellmannjd__: ah15:34
lsmola_eglynn: I believe Ip adress is enough for SNMP, right?15:35
jd__dhellmann: i.e. the list of resources is cached, but the question is how do you get that list of resources (that's why we talk about resourceloader)15:35
llu-laptopeglynn: this is not for baremetal only15:35
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lsmola_eglynn: that should be stored in Undercloud nova15:35
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dhellmannjd__: ok, got it15:35
eglynnllu-laptop: sure, but at least *some* of the hosts would generally be baremetals, right?15:35
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eglynn... /me just thinking in terms of capturing "owner" identity where it makes sense15:36
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llu-laptopeglynn: yes. but from snmp point of view, there is no way to know the undercloud project-id, because it doesn't require the undercloud to make itself working15:37
eglynnllu-laptop: a-ha, I see ...15:37
* jd__ stares at 'undercloud'15:37
lsmola_eglynn: not sure what is 'owner' of baremetal :-)15:37
eglynnlsmola_: the user that "registered" the host, if such a concept even exists (?)15:38
lsmola_eglynn: I believe we don't work with project/tenants in Undercloud15:38
eglynnlsmola_: k15:38
lsmola_eglynn: or User15:38
jd__shall we move on gentlemen?15:38
lsmola_eglynn: it might appear some day15:38
jd__we got an overcloud topic next15:38
jd__#topic Handle Heat notifications: new meters?, targeted to I3?15:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Handle Heat notifications: new meters?, targeted to I3? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:39
jd__scroiset: around?15:39
scroisetit's me, yeah15:39
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scroisetI would like share and agreed with you the resulting meters we will generate with heat notifications15:39
jd__please enlighten us about your evil plan15:39
scroisetI propose those described in BP15:39
scroisetIt's to be able to bill on stack CRUD firstly15:40
jd__what's in the whiteboard looks more like notification than samples15:40
jd__but we can map to samples for sure15:40
scroisetnotifications are described here #link
eglynnthe autoscaling aspect struck me as being a bit circular15:41
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scroisetsample proposed differs from notificaiton15:41
jd__eglynn: you want to autoscale on the autoscaling meters?15:41
jd__also know as übercloud15:41
scroisetjd__: no15:41
eglynnwell would the flow be something like ... ceilo compute stats -> fire auotscale alarm -> heat launches instance -> heat notification of scale-up -> more ceilo samples15:42
scroiset1/ I want to be able to bill on stack crud15:42
scroiset2/ I want to be notify when an autoscaling is done15:42
jd__scroiset: you may want to bill on numbers of stack too, I think this one's missing15:42
scroisetthe bp is for 1/15:43
jd__otherwise I see no objection15:43
eglynn... yeah now that I wrote a flow down, it doesn't seem that unnatural15:43
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scroisetjd__: yes, I can do it by counting the stack.create sample15:43
llu-laptopeglynn: I don't  see why the last 'more ceilo samples' would definitely trigger another 'fire autoscale alarm'15:43
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eglynnllu-laptop: yep, it wouldn't15:44
scroisetllu-laptop: no it wouldn't indeed15:44
eglynn(different meter in general of course)15:44
eglynn... just me thinking aloud, ignore & carry on :)15:45
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scroiset... so. for new meter/samples, do you see the need ?15:45
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scroiset.. billing purpose only.15:46
scroisetmy point 2/ is another BP #
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scroisetI'm feeling alone here, I'm surely not clear... am not I ?15:48
nadya_we are here :)15:49
eglynnwell that other BP is intended to allow alarming on notifications (as opposed to allowing an operator to bill on the number of notifications over a period)15:49
tongli@scroiset, I am working on that now.15:49
scroisettongli: I saw you'r the owner15:49
tongli@scroiset, not exactly sure what your concern is.15:49
tongli@scroiset, planning to submit the patch later today or tomorrow.15:50
eglynn(presuming that you want to be able to bill on the number of autoscale events say, not to generate an alarm on a single autoscale notification being received)15:50
jd__sorry I got kicked out by a local BOFH15:50
scroisettongli: I would like create an alarm on the event orhestration.autoscaling.end to be alerted when occurs15:50
jd__yeah tongli is working on that15:50
scroisettongli: cool15:50
jd__let's circle back to that at the end if we have time15:50
jd__I think scroiset concern are good now15:50
tongli@scroiset, yeah, you will be able to do that when the patch gets merged,I've been working with jd__ and eglynn on it.15:51
jd__#topic Should I proceed with aggregation?15:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Should I proceed with aggregation? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:51
eglynnI left some comments on
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nadya_So guys, I created a bp and have started implementation15:51
jd__I'm not really opiniated yet on that one15:51
eglynnIIUC only stats queries that have periods that actually line up with wall-clock boundaries will benefit from the pre-aggregation15:51
eglynnnadya_ is that correct? ... or a gross simplification?15:51
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eglynn(... in practice, I'm not sure these wallclock-clamped queries will be the majority)15:52
jaypipeseglynn: as opposed to what exactly?15:53
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eglynnas I think alarming, charting applications etc, would tend to use NOW as their baseline for queries15:53
nadya_there should be a mechanism of merging old-data and online15:53
eglynn... not NOW-(minutes past the hour)15:53
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eglynnjaypipes: say stats query with period one hour, but with start and end timestamps decoupled from an hour boundary15:53
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nadya_NOW is not a problem. You may use cache for 10 hours before NOW and get other data from db directly15:54
eglynnjaypipes: ... I put a worked example in nadya_'s etherpad15:54
jaypipeseglynn: ah, yes, agree completely.15:54
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jaypipeseglynn: I'm still not sold on the idea that the aggregate table has value over just a simple caching layer for the statistics table.15:54
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eglynnnadya_: but if the query periods are 10:07-11:06,11:07-12:06,... and the cache periods are 10:00-10:59,11:00-11:59,... then its a total cache-miss, or?15:55
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nadya_eglynn, we just do not have cache for this15:56
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nadya_eglynn, if I create half-hour aggregates it will work as well15:57
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nadya_it may be configurable. I think an hour is ok for now15:57
eglynnnadya_: yep, so I'm wondering if such queries are in majority, would the cache give that much benefit15:57
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nadya_eglynn, hour-cache is for long-queries by definition15:58
jaypipeseglynn: the only time I can see those queries being in the majority is in a graphical user interface that shows a graph of meters on hourly intervals...15:58
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jaypipeseglynn: but I'm not sold that such a use case is not better implemented as a simple memcache caching layer that saves the results of a SQL query against the main meter table...15:59
lsmola_jaypipes: something like that is being implemented in Horizon15:59
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eglynnlsmola_: the current horizon metering dashboard doesn't use time-clamped queries, or?15:59
* jd__ is not that sold too on caching16:00
jaypipeslsmola_: sure, understood. but the architecture/design of a backend server should never be dictated by the needs of a front-end UI.16:00
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lsmola_eglynn: you mean with use of period parameter?16:00
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eglynnlsmola_: I mean [(start, start+period), (start+period, start+2*period), ..., (end-period, end)]16:01
jd__we need to wrap up now guys16:01
jd__it may be better to continue this on the list as needed16:01
nadya_I'm afraid we're out of time. To summ up, this functionality is to make long-time queries faster16:01
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eglynnlsmola_: where start % 1hour != 0 even if period == 1hour16:02
lsmola_eglynn: well that is shown in the timeseries line chart16:02
jaypipescontinue discussion in #openstack-ceilometer?16:02
eglynnjaypipes: sure16:02
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:02
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 23 16:02:42 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:02
openstackMinutes (text):
lsmola_eglynn: using the period parameter and time filter to start and end16:02
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jd__thanks guys, happy hacking16:02
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ildikov_thanks, bye16:02
lsmola_thanks guys, have a good day16:03
cody-somerville#startmeeting storyboard16:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 23 16:03:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is cody-somerville. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'16:03
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cody-somervilleGood morning everyone!16:03
miquihello ....16:03
* miqui passing out cookies...16:04
cody-somerville#topic Storyboard sprint16:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Storyboard sprint (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:04
cody-somervilleI hope everyone is excited for next week's storyboard sprint in Brussels.16:04
gothicmindfoodwe're going to sprint next week!16:05
* gothicmindfood thinks she'll be sprinting to the coffee maker, really16:05
cody-somervillegothicmindfood: Do you have a schedule/outline proposal to share?16:05
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ruhebad news from NikitaKonovalov, SergeyLukjanov and ruhe. our visas got stuck in Belgium embassy and there is a chance we will not be able to attend the sprint16:06
cody-somervilleOh no!16:06
krotscheckNO GOOD16:06
cody-somervilleruhe: Is there anything that can be done? Would a invitation letter from Open Stack Foundation help (not that I can provide one or offer one)?16:06
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miquiso that begs the question...what about remotes conf line....etc..etc16:07
ruhecody-somerville: invitation letter might help16:07
cody-somerville#action cody-somerville to see if ttx can get invitation letters to help expedite visas for  NikitaKonovalov, SergeyLukjanov and ruhe.16:08
cody-somervilleRight, remote conf lines16:08
ruhecody-somerville: thank you!16:08
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ttxcody-somerville: invitation wouldneed to cmoe from a Belgian company16:08
cody-somervilleIn that case, maybe the invite should come from HP.16:08
gothicmindfoodcody-somerville: is my HP line good everywhere?16:08
* gothicmindfood means HP conference line16:09
cody-somervillemiqui: HP will happily make audio conferencing services available so that those who can't attend can dial in for specific discussions.16:09
ttxcody-somerville: that would look better coming frmo HP Belgium than my one-man shop in France, for sure.16:09
cody-somervilleWill make details around audio conferencing services available closer to the event.16:10
miquitnx cody-somerville..16:10
cody-somervilleThe above is link to wiki page on details on the sprint. gothicmindfood has added a proposed outline schedule. I'd like to propose that we adopt it. We can of course we as flexible as we need to be but some structure I think can help us have time to prepare (get our thoughts in order before the event) and stay on track while we're there.16:11
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cody-somervilleAny objections?16:12
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krotscheckWe could do a vote and be all official and stuff16:12
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cody-somervilleThat sounds like fun. :)16:13
cody-somerville#vote Adopt proposed schedule?16:13
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cody-somerville#startvote Adopt proposed schedule?16:13
miquino objections, exception there is no mention of onboarding others.... say for example when am ready to start contributing..16:13
openstackBegin voting on: Adopt proposed schedule? Valid vote options are Yes, No.16:13
openstackVote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.16:13
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ttxschedule looks good. I shall have time to explore a number of use cases in those empty slots16:14
ttx#vote Yes16:14
cody-somerville#vote Yes16:14
ruhe#vote Yes16:14
krotscheck#vote Yes16:14
NikitaKonovalov#vote Yes16:14
miqui#vote yes16:14
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mordred#vote Yes16:14
gothicmindfood#vote Yes16:15
gothicmindfoodmiqui - excellent point16:15
cody-somervillemiqui: re: onboarding, like having some help getting started hacking on it? That's a good idea.16:15
openstackVoted on "Adopt proposed schedule?" Results are16:15
gothicmindfoodI wanted to start with the big team/documents so we could have guidance when prioritizing the technical work16:15
gothicmindfoodmiqui - maybe we can include that as an item in the team contract?16:16
gothicmindfoodso we have a process or set of goals around what it is16:16
miquigothicmindfood: sure... thats a start...16:17
gothicmindfoodor - did you want to actually be onboarded DURING the sprint, miqui ?16:17
* gothicmindfood might be misunderstanding16:17
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cody-somerville#action gothicmindfood to follow-up with miqui on onboarding idea.16:18
gothicmindfoodthanks cody-somerville16:18
cody-somervilleNext, HP is going to be happy to sponsor a team dinner Thursday evening. So please keep your calendars open. Please put on wiki asap if you have food concerns/allergies/requirements.16:18
cody-somervilleYou might also want to e-mail me if they're hard requirements.16:19
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krotscheckYay food!16:19
krotscheckI like eating.16:19
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cody-somervilleAlso, on Friday starting at 6pm (and finishing laaate) there is the famous FOSDEM Beer Event.16:19
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cody-somervilleAs you probably already know, FOSDEM is taking place 10:30am-7pm on Saturday, 9am-6pm on Sunday. No registration necessary. Lots of people.  No marketing talks. No sponsored talks. You love it or hate it I'm told.16:20
ruheevil embassy, doesn't want to let me drink beer16:21
miquigithicmindfood:  not sure,  perhaps just start hacking on it, onboarding during a sprint might slow things down...16:21
cody-somervilleIf you have any awesome amazing ideas or proposals on the direction to take storyboard, I'd like to recommend that you share in ADVANCE of the sprint to let people have time to digest. Also please speak with gothicmindfood if you'd like to have specific time to pitch and discuss.16:22
cody-somervilleAny other topics/comments/etc. on the sprint?16:22
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krotscheckCan we make it an annual thing?16:23
* krotscheck likes asking really premature questions16:23
krotscheckNo questions here.16:23
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gothicmindfoodkrotscheck should pick out our next 5 sprint locations16:23
cody-somervillekrotscheck: annual! You can't be serious. That's clearly not often enough!! ;)16:23
krotscheckWELL THEN16:23
cody-somervilleI say every two weeks we have a sprint16:23
miquicody-somerville: how do we share ideas for sb ? send you email? wiki post?16:23
miquiin my other project we have a two week sprint... back to back16:24
cody-somervillemiqui: e-mail to openstack-dev with [storyboard] in subject, ccing people you might think to be particularly interested16:24
miquithen a hip sprint (nothing but fixing bugs)16:24
miquiand the we start again with a new sprint x....16:24
miquicody-somerville: thanks...16:25
NikitaKonovalovmiqui, you may also create etherpads16:25
cody-somerville+1 to etherpads16:25
cody-somervillejust be sure to share the link :)16:25
miquiah yes...16:25
cody-somerville#topic storyboard-webclient current state (and how to test)16:25
*** openstack changes topic to "storyboard-webclient current state (and how to test) (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:25
cody-somervillekrotscheck! You're up!16:25
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krotscheckSo the last few commits move us into the world of "Client and API are talking together" world16:26
krotscheckTHere's several patches out on infra/config that seem to have been sidelined by the current zuul jenkins crazyiness that has been going on.16:26
krotscheckSo while jenkins is still trying to use our build bash scripts, the codebase has already moved on to using tox16:27
krotscheckAlso, ruhe's work on the puppet module is still awaiting a +2.16:27
krotscheckThough Kai did add some good comments yesterday.16:27
krotscheckThings that we really need to get done:16:28
ruheyeah, i was so happy to see first comments on my patch16:28
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krotscheck1- Sit on infra's head to get our patches through. (I've got clark)16:28
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krotscheck2- Start writing a few integration tests to make sure those work.16:28
krotscheck3- Get things onto a server (wahtever that takes)16:29
krotscheckeverything else is feature development.16:29
krotscheckWe need to talk about authentication/authorization, and NikitaKonovalov  just submitted a patch for that16:29
NikitaKonovalovthat is a kind of a stub16:29
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: It's a good starting point :)16:29
cody-somervilleIt seems like we're talking a lot about auth/auth? Isn't it really a solved problem? Or is this just us figuring out what that is?16:30
cody-somervilleAlso, are we able to get things easily running standalone to try out? ie. Can I spin this all up easily enough in HP cloud? Is that documented?16:30
krotscheckcody-somerville: Ehn, there's a lot of unkonwns because only NikitaKonovalov 's actually sat down and written something.16:30
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NikitaKonovalovthere are no out-of-box solutions for pecan to handle oauth16:30
krotscheckcody-somerville: We're not on a server yet, but you can use tox to spin up the client and the API independently16:30
krotscheckcody-somerville: Though the current master versions won't work with one another - we need to land some patches first.16:31
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: Want to talk more about auth?16:31
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NikitaKonovalovkrotscheck, that would be nice16:32
krotscheckcody-somerville: To be honest, the whole "install path" question is only now starting to come together.16:32
krotscheckGot it.16:32
krotscheck#action krotscheck NikitaKonovalov Talk about auth, auth, and auth.16:33
cody-somervillekrotscheck: What can I (or others) do to get client and API server working together again?16:33
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krotscheckcody-somerville: Code review16:33
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ruhe+1 for code review16:33
cody-somervillekrotscheck: Do you have links handy so we can add them to meeting minutes?16:33
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NikitaKonovalovagree, we need code reviews16:33
krotscheckAlso, we need to get someone other than ttx and mordred with python chops to have +216:34
cody-somerville#action cody-somerville to take two hours to do code review later this afternoon.16:34
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krotscheckPreferably a non-HP person.16:34
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krotscheckANyway: Big goal before the sprint is to get our two pieces talking to each other and onto a server.16:35
cody-somervillegothicmindfood: ^^ Can you make sure we discuss core-reviewers at sprint?16:35
gothicmindfoodcody-somerville yup16:35
cody-somervillekrotscheck: Agreed.16:35
cody-somervillekrotscheck: I'll do what I can to help with that.16:35
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krotscheckSo everyone who wants to help with figuring out our install path, please feel free.16:36
ruhejfyi :)16:36
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cody-somervilleruhe: You're making me look bad! ;P16:36
cody-somervilleAnything else on this topic?16:36
krotscheckruhe's point on the puppet module.16:36
krotscheckBut that's it16:36
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cody-somervilleruhe: Anything to add on puppet module bit before we move on?16:37
ruheon puppet module: i'll resolve Kai's comments asap16:37
cody-somerville#topic npm repository mirror16:37
*** openstack changes topic to "npm repository mirror (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:37
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cody-somervillekrotscheck: I believe this is you as well.16:37
mordredthings don't work in the infra systems if they need to regularly talk to the internet16:37
mordredas in, the internet doesn't work16:38
cody-somervillemordred: :(16:38
krotscheckSomeone's sitting on the tubes16:38
mordredwe run a LOT of testing - the percentages are against us16:38
mordredso what we do for other system is make sure that we have a local mirror16:38
krotscheckTo stabilize our build, it's probably best that we set up an NPM mirror..16:38
mordredthe pypi mirror we have is selective16:38
mordredthat is, it only mirrors the thigns we need it to mirror16:38
cody-somervilleCan we easily mirror the pypi mirror model?16:38
mordredpossibly -16:39
mordredI don't know enough about the pure mechanics of bower and npm16:39
krotscheckNPM's repo is basically CouchDB with a replication job16:39
NikitaKonovalovbtw, is there a way to commit all the required npm stuff to the repo and use it from local storage?16:39
krotscheckThat replication script can be filtered.16:39
* cody-somerville blinks.16:39
mordredNikitaKonovalov: no. we will not do that16:39
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov urrrrr.... yeees16:39
ruheother option (not yet utilitized in infra) might be to bake images with disk-image-builder. those images will have everything pre-installed16:39
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krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: But that might nto be a great idea16:39
mordredruhe: we're not to the place where we can do that in the infra systems yet16:40
mordredwe also need to solve this genearlly for horizon as well16:40
mordredkrotscheck: you're saying that anybody can set up an npm mirror just by connecting a local couchdb?16:40
krotscheckmordred: Yup. On your laptop, it's super easy16:41
cody-somerville <-- this looks useful.16:41
mordredkrotscheck: ok. let's just look at setting one of those up for infra in general16:41
mordrednext question16:41
cody-somerville"npm-mirror is a utility for mirroring a subset of npm packages from another npm registry. It syncs all of the dependencies for a particular node module and writes them to the local filesystem so that a simple webserver can behave like a commonjs compliant package registry."16:41
mordredmy god. js has such better tools tahn we do16:41
mordredkrotscheck: how easy is it to tell a local environment to use a mirror and not the internet?16:41
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krotscheckmordred: .npmrc16:42
mordredhome or local dir/16:42
krotscheckUrrr... ~/.npmrc?16:42
krotscheckI think we can do a local one.16:42
mordredok. so - at some point - you shoudl look at select-mirror16:42
krotscheckOh, wait.16:42
krotscheckYEah, we can tell nodeenv to use something different.16:42
mordredin openstack-infra/config16:43
mordredthis is how we tell pip to use our mirror instead of global16:43
mordredbecause we dont want to set it directly in the repo itself16:43
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mordredbecause we'd like for devs at home to use the internet - our mirror is just for our build system16:43
mordredand is a build system impl detail16:43
cody-somervilleTo setup a npm mirror, is this just a patch we need to submit to something or will it be more involved?16:44
mordredso we want the build system to be able to inject build env information tellinga  job to use a mirror16:44
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mordredcody-somerville: we'll need to spin up a server in infra and we'll need to make puppet to run the mirror16:44
cody-somervillemordred: no good to reuse same server as pypi mirror?16:45
mordredcody-somerville: no - the pypi-mirror is built differently - it's just running on static.o.o because it's just static files16:45
mordredwe have jenkins jobs that publish to it16:45
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krotscheck#action krotscheck Figure out the details of hosting our own NPM Mirror.16:46
krotscheckcody-somerville: That sounds good... will that install into the filesystem on the throwaway jenkins slave though?16:46
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krotscheckcody-somerville: Oh. No. Neat. So that's a thing.16:46
krotscheckDoes anyone else have questions on ths?16:46
cody-somervillea little off topic, but have we ever considered just setting up a squid proxy to do all these caches/"mirrors"?16:46
mordredcody-somerville: yes. it's not good enough16:46
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mordredcause that would be easier16:47
cody-somerville(plus it can cause all sorts of tricky issues with apt repositories)16:47
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cody-somerville#topic Any Other Business16:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Any Other Business (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:47
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cody-somervilleGreat meeting today. Floor is now open for any other business / topics before we finish up.16:47
mordredyeah - I'd like to talk about the integration testing real quick16:47
mordredkrotscheck wrote a great patch to make webclient install storyboard and then integration test that16:48
* cody-somerville hi5s krotscheck.16:48
mordredthere are a couple of larger issues I'd like to bring up to make sure we can achieve them as we move this into infra16:48
mordredwe need to make sure that whatever we run as the default tox testing env is isolated16:48
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mordredso - we should probably sort out if there is either a) a way to run it with sqlite or b) if we can just use the openstackcitest credentials for mysql that are on the test nodes already16:49
mordred(we _do_ have infra set up already with existing mysql db's prepped for tests)16:50
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krotscheckmordred: The current approach is to use mysql. I don't see why SQLite would be an issue other than apparently alembic doesn't like it.16:50
ruhemordred: my patch for alembic testing already uses mysql and postgres with openstackci_test credentials16:50
NikitaKonovalovthe API can work with sqlite16:50
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cody-somervillealembic doesn't like sqlite because sqlite doesn't do scheme migrations that well16:50
ruheit shouldn't be difficult to expand other tests16:51
NikitaKonovalovactually it can work with whatever sqlalchemy wokrs with16:51
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mordredruhe: awesome16:51
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: I stand corrected. Neat16:51
mordredso, let's just continue to use openstackci_test then16:51
mordredlike ruhe's patch16:51
cody-somerville#agreed Continue to use openstackci_test like ruge's patch to run against mysql and postgres16:51
mordredI _think_ that there is a variable set somewhere (you can look in the nova tests) that indicates the presence of the openstackci_test db16:52
mordredalso ...16:52
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mordredwe'll want to make use of zuul so that changes to storyboard and storyboard-webclient test against each other16:53
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mordredwhich means ... we might want to make a version of the integration testing which doesn't pull master.tar.gz but instead assumes that somehting has put storyboard somewhere16:53
cody-somerville#agreed we'll want to make use of zuul so that changes to storyboard and storyboard-webclient test against each other16:53
mordredOR - just make an integration test script which grabs the two repos from zuul and then configures one to use the other16:54
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mordredcool. that all soudns sane then16:54
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cody-somervilleThank you mordred.16:55
cody-somervilleAnything else before we end today?16:55
krotscheckI'm good16:55
cody-somervilleReally looking forward to meeting folks next week and having a chance to hack on storyboard for two days.16:55
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gothicmindfoodme too! I hope we can get everyone into Belgium!16:56
krotscheckSilly belgians, trying to protect their beer16:56
cody-somervilleFor those of it that can't make it, we will try our best to include you. If you're feeling excluded, we're not being mean intentionally - do poke!16:56
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cody-somervilleYou're all awesome, Storyboard is awesome, and Open Stack is awesome. :) So have an awesome day!16:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:57
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 23 16:57:51 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:57
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 23 18:00:23 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:00
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bdpayne#topic Roll Call18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:00
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bdpayneanyone else here today?18:01
bdpayneok, perhaps it will be a quiet day18:01
bdpayne#topic Agenda18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:01
bdpaynebknudson anything you'd like to discuss?18:02
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bknudsonbdpayne: no, haven't been able to focus a whole lot on security stuff lately18:02
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bdpayneno worries18:02
bknudsoni2 milestone for keystone keeping me busy18:02
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bdpaynesince it's just us, I do have a keystone question for you :-)18:02
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bdpayneI saw a thread about checking password complexity in keystone around the end of Dec18:02
bdpaynedo you know if that went anywhere?18:03
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bdpaynei.e., is there a blueprint and/or plans to work on that18:03
bknudsonbdpayne: I haven't seen a blueprint or any submissions for changes18:03
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joel-coffmanhey, I had to step away from my desk for a minute18:03
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bdpaynehi joel-coffman18:03
bknudsonsome people thought it was a good idea... I thought it was a little odd to only implement that part of a password regimen.18:03
nkinderHi all18:04
bdpaynebknudson what do you mean by just that part?18:04
bknudsonKeystone doesn't do account lockouts, password expiration, any of that normal stuff that orgs expect.18:04
bdpayneoh, I see18:04
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bdpayneyeah... other stuff would be nice too18:04
dolphmbknudson: password expiration is probably landing in icehouse after rotation18:04
bknudsonif you keep your users in LDAP you get that.18:04
bdpayneI guess one step at a time ;-)18:04
bknudsonso keep your users in ldap18:05
dolphmerr in juno*18:05
bdpaynehard to keep them *all* in LH, right?18:05
bdpaynelike all service accounts and admins and such?18:05
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bdpaynesorry, on LH.. I mean LDAP18:05
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bknudsonsome people don't want service accounts in ldap... we had a proposal to have different backends per domain18:06
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bknudsonbut unfortunately it was half-baked18:06
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bdpayneanyway, now that we have other people here I'm happy to return to our regularly scheduled programming18:06
SergeyLukjanovsavanna folks around?18:06
nkinderYeah, I think it would depend on the deployment (who owns LDAP, etc.)18:06
bdpayneAny other topics of discussion for today's OSSG meeting?18:06
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bdpaynenkinder any updates to report?18:07
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nkinderbdpayne: Well, it seems like there's been some progress/agreement on the OSSN naming discussion18:08
bdpayneyes, this is true18:08
bdpaynein so far as people like what I suggested ;-)18:08
nkinderI still need to research moving it into git/gerrit.18:08
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bdpaynefor those that didn't see... the current plan seems to be to just do incremental numbering without concern of the date / year18:09
bdpayneOSSN-001, OSN-002, etc18:09
bdpaynegit / gerrit would be really nice18:09
bdpaynedo you know who we talk to about setting that up?18:09
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nkindernope, was going to do some digging18:10
nkinderpointers would be appreciated :)18:10
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bdpayneok, I'm not actually sure myself18:10
nkinderOk, I'll dig then18:10
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bknudsonnkinder: I would ask the infra team -- post to the mailing list18:11
bdpaynesounds good18:11
bknudsonor on irc18:11
nkinderbknudson: ok, will do18:11
malini1James Blair <>18:11
nkinderI don't have much else to report since last week.18:12
malini1infrastructure team18:12
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bdpayne#topic Moving Forward18:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Moving Forward (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:12
nkinderI would like to have some discussions on the summit talk proposals.  We had an action item for that last week.18:12
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bdpayneSo we have a variety of action items frmo the past two weeks of meetings18:12
bdpaynenkinder Ok, we'll touch on that in just a sec18:12
bdpaynelinks to action items are and
bdpayneI still have mine as open tasks... but they are on my todo list18:13
bdpayneshould get there in the next week18:14
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bdpaynenkinder As you mentioned, one item was to discuss the summit talks18:14
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bdpayneIn particular, an OSSG specific talk18:15
bdpaynemight make sense to take that to email so that we can include Rob?18:15
nkinderbdpayne: yes, e-mail or even phone if you like.18:15
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bdpayneexcellent, I will get that setup18:16
bdpayneany other summit talk submissions people would like to discuss?18:16
malini1No talk update but a while back I mentioned geo based computing and storage18:17
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malini1the storage is possible using "storage policies" coming up in Swift18:17
bdpayneany new OSSNs in the queue?18:18
malini1now cool UI but it is possible to assign machines to a cluster, give it a policy, say "geo-use" and use that policy for object storage18:18
bdpaynemalini1 interesting18:19
bdpaynesounds like things are generally quiet today, which is fine18:19
bdpaynelet's hit the open action items18:19
bdpayneand return next week with more to discuss18:19
bdpaynethanks everyone18:19
bdpaynehave a great week18:19
malini1opps, not "now" but "No" cool UI18:20
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:20
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 23 18:20:10 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:20
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harlowja#startmeeting openstack-state-management19:59
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 23 19:59:41 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)"19:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_state_management'19:59
harlowjahi all20:00
harlowjahi hi20:00
* harlowja waiting a few20:01
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iv_mhi there20:03
harlowjajust got out of meeting, didn't update agenda yet20:03
harlowjabut thats the agenda ^20:03
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harlowjahi iv_m ekarlso thx for coming :)20:04
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harlowjaguess small meeting today20:04
harlowja#topic action-items20:04
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harlowjaso i didn't do mine yet, still, bugging infra about zookeeper20:04
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harlowjabut would rather let infra folks calm down and not both them with to much for a little while20:05
harlowjadue to all the gate issues and stuffs20:05
harlowjaso i'll try to do that soon, along with the review for config changes that we have up20:05
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harlowja#action harlowja followup when infra calms down about zookeeper test usage20:06
harlowja#action harlowja followup when infra calms down about venv conf changes20:06
iv_mwhile we are waiting for config changes, what do u thing about ?20:06
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harlowjaseems fine20:07
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harlowjatest maximal dependencies instead of minimal right?20:07
harlowjak, seems ok to me20:08
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harlowjathx iv_m20:08
iv_mi think most people would use pyXY envs as default ones20:08
harlowjaalright cool, lets go onto next interesting topic20:09
harlowja#topic oslo-taskflow20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "oslo-taskflow (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)"20:09
harlowjaso there has been some back and forth for the last week or 2 or 3 about taskflow + oslo20:09
harlowjaso maybe we can come to some conclusion on it20:09
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harlowjato me the benefits could outweight the drawbacks, but its an unknown process, so its hard to predict what could/couldn't happen20:10
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harlowjatalking with dhellmann i think he's fine with helping work through the process if we do it, maintain our independence and see what happens20:12
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harlowja*after the infra stuff changes, since it will have side-efffects for infra team (the changes and all that)20:12
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* dhellmann perks up his ears20:13
harlowjaand we can help establish the rules for libraries like taskflow, how/what does it mean to be in oslo, what does it mean to have 2 PTLs (in a way)20:13
harlowjadhellmann just was discussing about oslo,vsnot20:13
dhellmannyeah, I was thinking of something similar to the lieutenant model, where there's a lead maintainer for each library20:13
harlowjawhat would general doug then do i guess?20:14
dhellmannI'd be happy to have taskflow in oslo, but don't want to have to take over leadership directly, which I think matches what you want?20:14
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dhellmannreport to admiral ttx20:14
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harlowjaagreed, thats what i'd like, but its like 2/3 levels of management, so unsure what that implies i guess20:14
harlowja*2/3 new levels20:15
harlowjaas long as taskflow behaves, it doesn't seem like much changes?20:15
dhellmannwell, I'd just be there to keep you from having another weekly meeting and you'd do all of the triage, scheduling, etc. as you do now20:15
harlowjaless meetings ftw20:16
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harlowjachangbl yt, iv_m what are your thoughts20:16
harlowja*some of the other cores20:16
harlowjai am personally fine with doing it and seeing what happens20:18
harlowjahelp work through the *bugs* in the process20:18
harlowjadhellmann u just make sure pbr is like releasing on xyz date, making sure communication is there, stuff like that right?20:19
iv_mit's still unclear to me, what does it mean to be in oslo -- what will change, initally, beside repo url and organizational structure?20:19
dhellmannharlowja: yeah, that's the idea20:19
harlowjaiv_m so oslo i don't think would change otherwise initially20:19
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dhellmanniv_m: the benefit is you can run pre-release code in the gate tests against the rest of openstack20:19
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dhellmannwhich means that openstack apps that rely on taskflow won't be able to introduce breaking changes in the way they use the library20:20
dhellmannand vice versa20:20
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harlowjadhellmann with say only using stable versions of taskflow, in those apps, we'd only introduce anything that could change/cause breakage across stable versions (if at all)20:21
harlowjabut i guess it does allow for earlier detection of that issue20:22
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dhellmannharlowja: if the tests only run against stable released versions of taskflow, you'd have to do pre-release testing yourself20:22
harlowjaright, something that it'd be nice to have machines do20:23
harlowjainstead of us meat bags20:23
iv_mbut we are introducing breaking changes from time to time -- we're still 0.1; harlowja is trying to introduce one right now20:23
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harlowjaso iv_m is that good or bad to be integrated into the gate tests then?20:24
harlowjait'd allow for earlier fixing for said breaking changes20:25
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harlowja*earlier fixing and detection20:26
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harlowjaearlier detection would seem like a nice benefit right?20:27
harlowjainstead of only on release detection20:27
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harlowjaanyways, i guess we can discuss more offline and keep on thinking about this20:28
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dhellmannyep, it's totally up to you guys20:29
harlowjaseems like still undecided/not agreed :)20:29
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harlowjathx dhellmann20:29
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harlowja#topic checkpoints20:32
*** openstack changes topic to "checkpoints (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)"20:32
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harlowjaso i think changbl was wondering why checkpoints last week, i gave a basic explanation, changbl u around?20:33
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harlowjai think i get the idea and the impl seems fine to start (although still i think the name can be changed to refeclt more of what the object does)20:33
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harlowjaso i am thinking iv_m that we might want to writeup some little tutorial/more detailed wiki on it?20:34
harlowjato make sure that the controller idea is well understood by others20:34
harlowja*controller seems like the rename that might happen to avoid checkpoint name confusion20:34
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iv_m#action iv_m akarpinska wiki writeup on reversion strategies20:36
iv_m^^ which is goal for current checkpointing work20:36
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iv_m^^ which is current work in progress20:37
harlowjathx iv_m, be good to have a example maybe, how its used, i know there are some in the reviews, but twiki might be simpler to just referernce quickly with a summary20:38
iv_mthere was a writeup on google docs, i think it wan't be hard to update it with our current understanding and move to wiki20:39
harlowjai do remember some doc somewhere, that seems like a good move20:40
harlowja*to twiki20:40
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harlowja#topic scoping20:40
*** openstack changes topic to "scoping (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)"20:40
harlowjaso to me this is another intersting one, especially the changes it could involve, brings up some intersting questions20:41
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harlowja#action harlowja writeup little wiki with a similar explanation as checkpoint/reversion/controller strategies20:41
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harlowjaiv_m i've been wanting to see if u think we should try to do this in a way that is mostly harmless to current users (the engine helpers change is the big api difference)20:42
harlowja would allow for backwards compat (basically assume always anonymous)20:42
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ekarlsowhat is the changes ?20:42
harlowjaso short summary, u create a flow with nested subflows right, ..., to do sometype of work20:43
harlowjawhen running, currently we track details about what is running and the states and persisted data in a logbook flowdetail container (which is backed by some backend)20:43
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harlowjabut when u nested subflows (especially when u associate a name to those subflows) it seems like it makes sense to match those named subflows up with there own flowdetail container instead of just using a single flowdetail container20:45
harlowjathis complicates lookup, but does seem a little more natural (to me at least)20:45
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iv_mand to me not exactly more natural ;)20:45
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iv_mso we can arugue, but u'll win because u're typing faster20:46
harlowjaso it raises the question of what are subflows (especially subflows with names)20:46
harlowjai'll type more slowly now20:46
iv_mto me, subflow names we always mere debugging aid aimed to help to understand what's hapining in flattening and around20:47
harlowjadoes that somewhat make sense ekarlso ?20:47
iv_mwhat i was more intersted was state20:47
iv_mi mean, currently subflows don't have separate separate states, and in your scoping patch thay don't have states also -- they share one state20:48
iv_mwhich is then saved in all the flow details20:48
* harlowja thinking20:49
iv_mnot having hierarchy of states was one of the main reasons i did not want hierarchy of flow details20:49
iv_mand i'm still a bit afraid of complexity it introduces20:50
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harlowjai agree on the state thing, its not independent state-machines (in a way)20:51
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harlowjamaybe easier/better to figure out how to make it independent state-machines before this change (and see what that loosk like)20:52
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harlowjahierachical state-machines here we come, lol20:52
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harlowjaso maybe we can shelve this patch for a little while20:53
harlowjaseem ok?20:54
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iv_mi'd better avoid herarchical states entierly20:54
harlowjanot sure if we can in the end :)20:55
harlowjaanyways, ok, i'll shelve this for a little while, maybe can revisit laterish20:55
harlowjaand quick last topic before out of time20:56
harlowja#topic 0.220:56
*** openstack changes topic to "0.2 (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)"20:56
harlowjaso i think we want to get through the checkpointing code right, and the zookeeper 2/3 reviews20:56
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harlowjadoes that seem doable, i think those are almost done and just need some further reviewing20:56
harlowjaso maybe next week we could have 0.2?20:56
harlowjait'd be nice to have go through also20:57
harlowja*depending on gate situations*20:57
changblhi, guys, sorry i am late20:57
changblharlowja, i was in a meeting20:57
harlowja2 minutes :-P20:57
harlowjaall good20:57
changblany thing for me to do/look at?20:57
harlowjajust talking about 0.220:57
changblnext week?20:58
harlowjai was thinking the checkpoint code (renamed i think to controller code), zookeeper 3 patches20:58
harlowjaand that'd be ok for 0.2?20:58
harlowjamost of the above is just going through final reviews anyway20:58
harlowjareviews and tweaks20:58
harlowjaso next week does seem achievable right?20:58
changblzookeeper fine with me20:58
harlowjaand i guess worker model also iv_m , do u feel stanislav will be ok with that in 0.2?20:59
harlowjathat ones the other big neat feature20:59
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harlowjachangbl if u want to check that out, its coming along, seems like a good chunk of code20:59
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harlowjaalot for one commit/review, but pretty seperated anyway21:00
harlowjatime up21:00
harlowjago to #openstack-state-management for more!21:00
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 23 21:00:21 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:00
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mtreinish#startmeeting qa22:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jan 23 22:00:18 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"22:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'22:00
mtreinishhi, who's here?22:00
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mtreinish^^^ today's agenda22:01
mtreinishso let's get started22:01
mtreinish#topic Gate Updates (sdague)22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Gate Updates (sdague) (Meeting topic: qa)"22:01
mtreinishsdague: you're up22:01
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sdagueso I wanted to make sure people saw the email on this one22:02
sdagueNew Gating model -
sdaguerace condition!22:02
mtreinishI win...22:02
sdaguebasically, as people have seen, we remain extremely backed up in the gate22:03
sdagueand it's a situation that we don't expect to get better22:03
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sdaguein terms of overall load22:03
sdaguewe can tackle some of the bugs, and that will help22:03
sdaguebut the load in terms of patches keeps going up at every milestone22:03
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dkranzand will continue to go up even more22:03
sdagueso we've got some relatively extensive changes proposed to make i3 viable22:04
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sdaguemostly, I wanted to point out the email, and open up for comments discussion22:04
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mtreinishsdague: it's sounds good to me22:05
dkranzYes. I was afraid we were on a death march22:05
mtreinishI'm curious to see how this shifts pain points though22:05
sdagueagreed, it is an experiment22:05
sdagueand I expect we'll adjust over time22:05
dkranzI do think that at some point we will need to go to a per-project branch/merge model like the linux kernel22:06
sdaguethe one thing we've learned, is we hit new scale levels on every cycle, so have to rethink things from time to time22:06
dkranzBut this is a good start22:06
sdaguedkranz: we do need some way to test openstack as a whole22:06
sdaguebecause when we haven't, it doesn't work22:06
dkranzsdague: Yes, I had an alternate proposal but I am not going to propose it now because progress is being made22:06
ravikumar_hpRun a slimmer set of jobs in the gate queue to  - means reduce gated job?22:06
sdaguelike when ceilometer turned out it was crashing nova if installed22:06
sdagueravikumar_hp: my expectation is we'll at least run tempest-full and grenade22:07
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sdaguebut not in a bunch of different configs22:07
sdagueand also, not all the project specific tests, like unit tests22:07
dkranzIt is worth trying22:08
rahmu"Make a clean recent Check prereq for entering gate" How do you define "recent" and who will trigger the check?22:08
sdaguethe clean check scorecard, and auto recheck should keep things just about as functional22:08
sdaguerahmu: recent == 24hrs22:08
sdagueand zuul will trigger it itself if it's out of date22:08
sdagueso a +A with old test results will run another check22:08
sdagueand if it passes, move to gate22:08
rahmusdague: aren't you afraid that this might increase the load on the check gate drastically?22:09
rahmucheck queue*22:09
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sdaguerahmu: it will, however load in the check queue is less problematic22:09
dkranzIt is not just load22:09
sdaguebecause the jobs are independent22:09
sdaguethe big reset costs of the speculation queue are what's weighing us down now22:09
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sdaguethis will also help solve a currently unsolved problem, which is reviewers pushing +A before they have test results, or with month old test results22:10
sdaguewhich is actually happening quite a bit22:10
sdagueand leading to gate instability22:10
dkranzsdague: Good. It is annoying to look at a review you want to +A but you have to wait with no efficient way to be notified when it is ok.22:11
sdagueI think I saw one change in the gate with the last jenkins run from Oct 13 on monday22:11
sdaguedkranz: right, this will mean you don't need to22:11
sdague+A, it will do all the right things22:12
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mtreinishsdague: Oct. 13, yeah I'm sure that won't have a merge conflict :)22:12
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sdagueit actually didn't22:12
sdagueit was a stable/havana glance change22:12
sdaguehowever, it couldn't pass because stable/grizzly devstack was not good22:13
mtreinishheh, ok22:13
sdaguewe'll probably also put some resweep logic in there so that code that's getting reviewed if it hasn't seen results in the past week will rerun as well22:13
sdagueso test results will always be reasonably up to date22:14
mtreinishsdague: is that where all of mikal recheck no bug comments are coming from?22:14
sdaguebut that's a later optimization22:14
sdaguemtreinish: so he did it out of band22:14
sdaguethis will be a feature of zuul22:14
dkranzsdague: When are these changes taking effect?22:14
mtreinishsdague: oh, ok that makes sense22:14
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sdagueas soon as jeblair gets the zuul bits solid22:14
sdaguepossibly as early as this weekend22:14
sdagueif not, within a couple weeks22:14
dkranzsdague: cool22:14
sdaguein time to fix issues on the system prior to i322:15
sdaguethere have been other things going on as well, zuul now does a slow start on the dependent queue22:15
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sdagueso our reset cost is less22:15
sdagueonly the top N changes will get run, and that will get dynamically adjusted as we pass or fail22:16
jeblair(zuul changes are ready to go)22:16
sdaguejeblair: awesome22:16
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mtreinishjeblair: nice22:16
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sdagueok, that's probably enough on gate, unless there are other questions / comments22:16
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mtreinishok let's move on then22:17
mtreinish#topic Blueprints22:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)"22:17
mtreinishdoes anyone have any status updates on blueprints that they'd like to bring up22:17
dkranzjust the one I highlighted in the agenda22:18
mtreinishdkranz: I think you put an entry for the negative test stuff22:18
mtreinishdkranz: yep22:18
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sdaguelet me throw one other one in22:18
ravikumar_hpmtreinish: Are we still using blueprints  for test development tasks?22:18
sdaguewhich is actually a nova blueprint -
dkranzravikumar_hp: I think we said one per project22:19
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mtreinishravikumar_hp: yes for certain classes of tasks22:19
dkranzas a master blueprint22:19
sdaguebut I've tagged a couple of tempest changes to it, as we'll need to move those through as part of it22:19
mtreinishsdague: ok we can touch that after dkranz's bp22:19
mtreinish#topic negative tests bp22:19
*** openstack changes topic to "negative tests bp (Meeting topic: qa)"22:20
mtreinishdkranz: ok go ahead22:20
dkranzmtreinish: It  is related in that xml was the reason for the current -1 on the negative test patch22:20
dkranzSo I put four questions in the agenda22:20
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dkranzMarc and I tried to push something with enough meat that folks could really see the whole picture22:20
max_loburping devananda22:21
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mtreinishdkranz: ok, yeah the xml discussion is only for v322:21
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devanandamax_lobur: pong22:21
mtreinishyou'll still need it for the v2 side of the negative testing22:21
dkranzYes, but it is the same issue with negative22:21
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sdaguedkranz: what's the crux of the -1?22:21
mtreinishbut since there isn't a schema available for v2 I guess it's not really a discussion22:21
dkranzDo we want to maintain xml generation and schemas for the negative tests?22:21
sdaguedkranz: in my opinion, no22:22
sdagueI think we drop the xml negative tests completely22:22
mtreinishsdague: we probably should keep it for v222:22
mtreinishas long as we keep v2 around22:22
mtreinishin tempest22:22
sdaguemtreinish: for now, sure, I don't want to increase it though22:22
mtreinishsdague: yeah definitely22:22
dkranzI'm ok with keeping the negative xml tests that exist for apis22:23
sdaguedkranz: this was actually part and parcel for why I've been pushing hard to get a TC level recommendation to just do JSON22:23
dkranzI just don't want to add xml auto-generation22:23
sdaguedkranz: yes, agreed22:23
dkranzsdague: I agree with you22:23
mtreinishdkranz: for the question in the agenda on schema location I'd say an external file would be best22:24
dkranzsdague: So I think the rest of the -1 were little things that we will fix22:24
mtreinishIMO it just clutters up the test files22:24
dkranzmtreinish: external to tempest?22:24
mtreinishno in tree but outside the test file22:24
mtreinishlike in etc or something22:24
sdaguemtreinish: that sounds good22:24
sdagueor even in the tree in a well known location22:24
sdagueetc is something people might think they can change22:25
dkranzmtreinish: I think it would be good to keep them in the api tree with their pservices22:25
mtreinishdkranz: also that helps if we add an autogeneration tool to refresh the schemas22:25
dkranzbut in separate files22:25
mtreinishsdague: yeah that's a good point22:25
sdaguedkranz: yes, I think I agree22:25
mtreinishdkranz: +122:25
dkranzIdeally these schemas would have other uses22:25
dkranzlike generating api doc22:26
sdagueyeh, I think eventually we'll get to a place where we can pull the schemas from the service22:26
dkranzReally what I would like to see is these be required as part of new apis22:26
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sdaguebut that's a ways down the road22:26
mtreinishken1ohmichi: are you working on making the schema queriable in nova?22:26
sdagueI think that doing this in nova will mean it spreads22:26
ken1ohmichiyes, a lot of patches for it.22:26
sdaguenova tends to set the tone for a lot of things22:27
mtreinishken1ohmichi: ok cool, I just wanted to check22:27
dkranzRemember that those schemas are only for payload and not enough for testgen22:27
sdaguedkranz: right22:27
dkranzThe negative test patch defines a schema that is enough22:27
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ken1ohmichimtreisnish: Thanks:,n,z22:27
dkranzSo if we could agree on a sufficient schema that would be great22:27
sdagueI'll promise to look at it in depth once we get the queue back in shape22:27
dkranzAnd new apis should spec them, and have a way to fetch22:28
mtreinishdkranz: yeah I need to take another look at things too22:28
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mtreinishken1ohmichi: yeah you're right that is a lot of patches in flight22:28
dkranzI'd like to get all the feedback and then we can submit another patch22:28
mtreinishdkranz: well I'd start with splitting the files out22:29
dkranzSo we will split the files and remove the JSON in the names22:29
mtreinishit's probably pretty close to ready then22:29
mtreinishwe can fix things and iterate after we get an initial working version in22:29
dkranzmtreinish: ok, great22:29
sdagueken1ohmichi: by the way, nice job on doing all the api validation bits in nova. I think that will be super helpful for the project.22:29
mtreinishdkranz: ok is there anything else on this?22:30
dkranzI think that's all for that blueprint22:30
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ken1ohmichisdague: Thanks. and thanks for reviewing:-)22:30
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mtreinishok then let's move on22:30
mtreinish#topic nova v3 xml removal22:30
*** openstack changes topic to "nova v3 xml removal (Meeting topic: qa)"22:30
mtreinishsdague: this is you again22:30
sdagueoh right22:31
sdagueso after polling lots of folks22:31
sdaguea few email threads22:31
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sdagueit looks like we have concensus to pull xml out of nova v3 before icehouse22:31
sdaguerussellb just sent an email on it22:31
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sdagueso step one is to drop the tempest tests22:32
sdagueso then we can pull out the nova pieces22:32
dkranzCan I do it?22:32
mtreinishyes I'm very happy about this22:32
mtreinishdkranz: I think sdague has dibs22:32
ken1ohmichisdague: I'm really glad that.22:32
dkranzmtreinish: ok22:32
sdagueyeh, I have dibs on the removes in nova. I'll start working on them next week22:33
dkranzsdague: I guess since you put them in ... :)22:33
sdaguebut if you could look over the tempest patches, a quick +2 / +A on those would be good22:33
russellbsdague: you shooting for top spot in "most lines removed" ?  :)22:33
sdagueit also saves us 5 - 10 minutes on the tempest-full runs22:33
sdaguewhich would be helpful22:33
mtreinishrussellb: he loves stat padding22:33
sdagueheh :P22:34
mtreinishyou should see his e-r patches22:34
sdagueI just love killing xml22:34
russellbremoving code is the best22:34
sdagueI also think that this is going to simplify a lot of things long term22:34
dkranzsdague: Is there a tc vote about this?22:35
sdaguedkranz: it's coming22:35
dkranzsdague: ok, good22:35
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sdagueI have a todo to work with markmc on language22:35
russellbtc may make a recommendation like ... "XML not required"22:35
sdagueright, exactly22:35
russellbTC wouldn't be the one to make a call on the nova decision, for example22:35
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russellbunless the TC wanted to put in some sort of cross project requirement for XML22:36
dkranzrussellb: Sure22:36
sdagueand trove and ironic look like they will probably not do an XML api because of that22:36
russellbbut that'd be bonkers22:36
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masayukigHow about other project? They are volume, identity, network?22:36
sdaguethis is mostly the TC saying that we want to make sure all projects realize we only require a JSON api, not both22:36
dkranzBased on their client, ceilo did xml but in a way that was auto-gen with json22:36
sdaguedkranz: it will be project decisions as what they do in the future22:36
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dkranzI think that is a viable approach22:37
dkranzsdague: Sure22:37
sdaguebut this will give projects more flexibility to just not22:37
sdagueceilo did it with wsme, which has it's own set of challenges22:37
sdaguethey are free to continue down that path22:37
dkranzsdague: yes,just pointing out that  ceilo is supporting xml but without all the extra work, or without most of it22:37
russellbstill have the verification and doc work ...22:37
sdaguedkranz: sure, they have a very small api22:38
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sdagueand, like russellb said22:38
dkranzrussellb: Yes, and xml bigots will see it is not good xml22:38
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sdaguedkranz: right, crappy xml isn't what anyone wants, not even xml people :)22:38
sdagueanyway, moving on, I think22:38
mtreinishok sure22:38
* russellb ready for the flames22:38
mtreinish#topic Neutron testing22:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron testing (Meeting topic: qa)"22:39
mtreinishmlavalle: you have an update on api testing listed on the agenda22:39
mlavalleMost of the items in the api testing analysis have been claimed by test developers22:39
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mlavalleat this point in time we have a community of 8 to 10 debs writing api tests22:40
mlavalleI train some of them last week in Montreal22:40
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ravikumar_hpmlavalle: hi . we are working on some est development . will send you for review22:40
mlavalleso I think we are in very good shape in this effort22:40
mtreinishmlavalle: ok are we still blocked by neutron gate issues on this?22:41
mlavalleas far as I know, yes22:41
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mtreinishmlavalle: ok, I'll have to circle back with salv-orlando on helping him with that22:42
mlavalleover the next few weeks I will focus on reviewing the code that this groups submits22:42
sdaguemlavalle: great22:42
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sdaguethanks again for training at that table in montreal, very helpful22:42
mlavalleonce I deem it good enough, I will need help from core reviewers to help us merge the code22:42
mtreinishmlavalle: sure, but we'll need to get the neutron gate working again before we start approving things22:42
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mlavalleonc the gate starts working again i'll ping you guys directly to get the patch sets merged22:43
mtreinishmlavalle: ok, are you guys using the same bp to track this22:43
mtreinishso there is one branch in gerrit?22:44
mlavalleno, we are using an entherpad22:44
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mlavallebut I can create a blueprint if that helps22:44
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mtreinishmlavalle: I just meant for submission if there is a branch view to see all the proposed api tests at once that helps22:44
mtreinishI guess it doesn't have to be a bp to do that22:44
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mlavalleok cool22:45
mtreinishmlavalle: ok is there anything else on this topic?22:45
mlavallethat's all I have22:45
mtreinishok then let's move on22:45
mtreinish#topic Bugs22:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: qa)"22:45
mtreinishok does anyone have any critical bugs to bring up22:45
sdagueI have completely not looked at the bug tracker in 2 weeks22:45
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mtreinishor bugs that need attention22:45
mtreinishsdague: I was looking a bit last night22:46
mtreinishand picked off a couple of simple ones22:46
dkranzI will spend some time on this tomorrow22:46
dkranzI've been swamped with other things this week so far22:46
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mtreinishok I guess there's nothing to discuss on this one. Everyone's been kinda of busy and hasn't had much time to look at bugs22:47
mtreinishlet's move to the next topic then22:47
mtreinish#topic Critical Reviews22:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"22:47
mtreinishdoes anyone have any reviews that they think need some attention?22:47
mtreinishto appease sdague preferrably that fix gate bugs :)22:48
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sdaguewell, I'll point at the xml v3 ones22:48
sdagueas it will shorten tempest runs, which will help22:48
mtreinishsdague: yeah I'll take a look after the meeting22:48
dkranzmtreinish: There is my patch to turn on dumping of all errors into the console log22:48
sdaguedkranz: can we actually put that into a separate file?22:49
ken1ohmichisdague: I will review them today.22:49
sdaguein reading the neutron jobs they kind of overwhelm things22:49
dkranzsdague: That is why I didn't do it in the first place22:49
sdaguedkranz: oh... also, the error enforcing is actually off again22:49
dkranzsdague: How come?22:50
sdaguebecause we had a few more creep in, so we turned it off on sat22:50
rahmumtreinish: I'd like to get some attention on this patch and more generally know what's happening with the config-verification bp22:50
sdagueit was causing a bunch of resets22:50
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clarkbI have a change up to add at least some of those to the whitelist22:50
mtreinishrahmu: oh yeah that's a +A22:50
sdaguethere are some heat and conductor issues that cropped up22:50
sdagueI figured lets get the gate back to something sane, then we turn it back on22:51
dkranzCan't we just fix the issues?22:51
mtreinishrahmu: as for the bp I've got the rework patches up for review22:51
dkranzI mean the new ones?22:51
sdaguedkranz: with a 55 hr gate queue... not easily22:51
rahmumtreinish: thanks. Reviewing now.22:51
dkranzsdague: Sigh22:51
mtreinishrahmu: you can base the swift ones on top of that after your patch merges22:51
sdagueand the conductor one wasn't obvious, I hit up dansmith before he went on vacation22:51
rahmumtreinish: yes, that's my intention.22:51
sdaguehe looked for an hour, and couldn't figure it out22:52
sdaguehas to do with workers and how they talk to rpc22:52
dkranzsdague: ok22:52
mtreinishok are there any other reviews that people would like to bring up?22:53
mtreinishok then lets move on to the open discussion22:53
mtreinish#topic Open Discussion22:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: qa)"22:54
dkranzI just had one question22:54
mtreinishin the last ~6min does anyone have any other topics to bring up?22:54
mtreinishdkranz: ok22:54
dkranzHas any one thought about making a pip package for tempest?22:54
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mtreinishdkranz: I have thought about uploading to pip before22:54
mtreinishbut we don't really do versioning in tempest22:55
dkranzThe assumptions about working directory with testr/discover are not friendly to that22:55
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mtreinishI'm also not sure there is much benefit to doing it22:55
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dkranzmtreinish: ok, I'm not sure either22:55
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afazekas Is it planned to restore the concurrency to 4 ?22:55
mtreinishdkranz: what do you mean about the working directory?22:55
sdagueafazekas: not until we can convince ourselves that we can run under that load22:56
dkranzmtreinish: pip install would put the code in the system dir somewhere22:56
sdaguerussellb and I have been adding various stats collection to devstack to figure that out22:56
dkranzmtreinish: And then you can't discovre the tests22:56
rahmudkranz: related: some parts of tempest could be reusable for other projects. I'm thinking mainly about the rest_client. Has anyone thought about separating it into a reusable component?22:56
sdaguebut there was a strong feeling that we were driving so much load on the nodes that we were getting new classes of fails, and part of the stability issues22:56
dkranzrahmu: That is a different issue and that was discussed recently22:57
dkranzrahmu: But we don't want to take that on now22:57
rahmudkranz: any log on that discussion?22:57
mtreinishdkranz: oh, yeah you could solve that pretty easily actually.22:57
sdaguefor instance the tempest nodes would be at a load average of 8+ for 10s of minutes22:57
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dkranzmtreinish: How? I am not sure of those mechanics22:57
dkranzrahmu: somewhere in the irc/qa logs I think22:58
sdagueI just want testr to actually tell me what's wrong with a python file when it blows up, instead of doing super cryptic header dump22:58
mtreinishdkranz: well tempest will get installed into a tempest namespace so you can just make a tempest command that would import test_discover package22:58
mtreinishand run testr22:58
rahmudkranz: okay thanks. Will try to look it up.22:58
dkranzmtreinish: ok, thanks. I;ll think about that. Not sure it's worth it either22:59
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mtreinishok so we're out of time22:59
mtreinishlet's end for today22:59
dkranzbye all22:59
afazekassdague: looks like with 2 thread the jobs takes longer22:59
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Jan 23 22:59:50 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:59
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