Wednesday, 2014-01-29

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johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI15:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Jan 29 15:00:32 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:00
johnthetubaguywho is around today?15:00
thouvengguillaume thouvenin15:00
BobBallMr Robert Ball15:01
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johnthetubaguy#topic Blueprints15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:02
johnthetubaguyhows it going15:02
thouvengnothing really new on my side.15:02
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BobBallCan the patches be opened up pls thouveng ?15:02
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thouvengI'm looking for adding test15:02
BobBallI know they need tests, but it'd be good for them to be more visible15:03
thouvengyes I can open them15:03
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thouvengok sure15:03
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thouvengin the same time I'm writing a blog post15:03
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thouvengabout those patches so it will be more convenient to open them15:03
BobBallIs there any chance someone at RAX could test the pci pass through aspect johnthetubaguy?15:04
BobBallI'm struggling from a hardware perspective15:04
johnthetubaguyerm, not sure I can15:05
johnthetubaguydon't have hardware for that15:05
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johnthetubaguyany more on blueprints?15:06
BobBallthouveng was saying he'd like someone else to test it too15:06
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thouvengIf I open the patches maybe I will have some feedback15:07
thouvengbut right now I'm trying to see how to use mock and unit test :)15:07
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johnthetubaguyOK, we can help you if you open then15:08
thouvengat least to test method like  attach_pci_devices15:08
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thouvengthey should be open now15:08
BobBallit's actually quite straight forward15:08
johnthetubaguyyou read the mock docs?15:08
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BobBallyou add a decorator @mock.patch.object(module, 'method')15:09
BobBalland an argument to your test function15:09
thouvengyes I read the doc but when I look the code it is not so easy15:09
BobBalland then do argument.return_value='string'15:09
BobBallI was talking about the _get_passthrough_devices test15:10
thouvengI will try that. I don't see clearly where to add code but I will run some tries15:10
BobBallnot attach_pci_devices (which is a little more complicated...)15:10
BobBallI gave a hint in my latest comments on the commit15:11
BobBallbut I'm more than happy to explain more - here or email or wherever :)15:11
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thouvengYes I see it and I'm looking how _test_spawn is working15:12
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BobBallThe problem is that all of the functions are local to the spawn method15:12
BobBallwhich is why there is one huge test for it15:12
BobBallbut I'm hoping it'll be an easy copy+paste jobby to get the tests going15:12
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johnthetubaguyyeah, that fella is tricky15:12
thouvengOk. I will ask you by email then :)15:12
mateltricky = smells15:13
matelJust to be corect.15:13
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BobBallBut at least it has a test ;) that's something.15:13
johnthetubaguyI perfer the actual unit tests more15:14
johnthetubaguybut that spawn one can work15:14
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BobBallI didn't see actual unit tests for those functions?15:14
BobBallI could have been being blind though...15:15
johnthetubaguyadd the little unit tests first15:16
johnthetubaguythen worry about the spawn one later15:16
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johnthetubaguyto be honest, if it doesn't break it, thats cool by me15:16
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johnthetubaguyI had to modify that test recently, because it was incorrect, and its not a nice thing at all15:16
johnthetubaguyanything specific to discuss here?15:17
BobBallI think not for now15:17
matelnot related to these things.15:17
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johnthetubaguy#topic QA15:17
*** openstack changes topic to "QA (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:17
BobBallDoes QA include talking about bugs? :)15:18
johnthetubaguyso upstream testing…15:18
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BobBalloh yeah15:18
BobBallmatel's turn15:18
johnthetubaguyah, well we can do bugs first if you want?15:18
johnthetubaguyok, bugs second15:18
BobBallalthough I've done a chunk yesterday too15:18
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matelOkay, so Bob has set up a nodepool in our CI -so that we could try out the nodepool changes.15:18
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matelOther than that, we passed full tempest.15:18
matelThe time it takes is not the best, let me dig it up for you.15:19
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matelIt shows, that full tempest took 5862.250s15:20
matelWe still have some error messages in the logs - which make the job fail.15:20
johnthetubaguyah, OK, thats good progress15:20
matelBut it's definitely a progress further.15:20
johnthetubaguyso we have a good localrc now I guess?15:20
matelWe have a working localrc, yes.15:21
matelWe created a status page to make it easier to monitor, what needs to be done/where we are.15:21
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johnthetubaguyhang on, so it takes 97 mins right, so 1hour 37mins15:21
BobBallAnd we have a nodepool running internally which creates nodes (or at least tries to create nodes!) in the rax cloud15:21
johnthetubaguydid you do anything in parrallel?15:21
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johnthetubaguyI think gate does parallelism of 2 or 4?15:22
matelThis run was with 2 as well15:22
BobBallIt used to be 4 but it was dropped recently because nova can't cope ;)15:22
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johnthetubaguyyeah, that sounds right15:22
johnthetubaguyhmm, well, reducing that is a good goal15:22
BobBallIt's a secondary goal to getting it working :P15:23
matelBob has some pending changes, which might help.15:23
BobBallindeed - this is on trunk15:23
BobBallnot the CTX branch15:23
BobBallso not all of my speedups are there yet15:23
matelSo I think there are still stuff to do, but we are showing progress.15:24
mateljohnthetubaguy: could you please review
johnthetubaguy#action johnthetubaguy to review
BobBallSo ummm15:24
BobBallit might just have worked15:24
johnthetubaguyI will try to do that15:24
matelAnd let me know, if you guys wanted to see some other info on that page.15:24
matelyes, Bob?15:25
BobBallssh ubuntu@
BobBallto get to our nodepool15:25
johnthetubaguyah, so that time was on trunk, thats good news15:25
BobBallthen nova list and we have a template that is there and running15:25
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matelBobBall - are you telling me, that we built a node?15:25
BobBallI'm not certain15:25
BobBallno, not a node, the image15:25
BobBallbut the image seems to work15:25
BobBallit's in devstack15:25
BobBallwhich is good15:25
matelBobBall: take it offline15:26
BobBallssh root@
BobBallthis is all behind our firewall :D15:26
BobBallmatel: stamp file isn't there :/15:26
matel162.242.233.166 - that's not15:26
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BobBallno - but you can't get in without the private key which is15:26
BobBallbut anyway15:27
matelBobBall - use jenkins username15:27
BobBallwe'll take it offline.15:27
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johnthetubaguyanyways, sounds like there is awesome progress there15:27
matelYes, unfortunately, I am not working this week.15:27
johnthetubaguywhat is the plan for reporting into gerrit?15:27
matelI guess we are aiming for full gate integration.15:28
BobBallThat's the only missing step ATM because we want full gate15:28
BobBallthis nodepool setup is for verification + testing15:28
BobBallbut a backup plan as well15:28
BobBallif we need to report to gerrit we'll just setup something simple with pygerrit15:28
johnthetubaguyright, but how are we reporting into review.openstack.org15:28
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johnthetubaguyI am just reading the wiki15:28
BobBallIt's not on the wiki because the wiki is aimed at the primary plan of OS zuul managing it15:29
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mateljohnthetubagu: I thought it's handled by the infrastructure15:29
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mateljohnthetubaguy: why do you have such a long nick? :-)15:29
johnthetubaguymatel: it is, crossed wires, BobBall was talking about a backup plan15:29
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johnthetubaguymate: to annoy people with RSI15:29
BobBallmatel: try jo<tab> ;)15:30
johnthetubaguyrepetitive strain injury15:30
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BobBallmatel: and if that doesn't work, get a proper IRC client like irssi15:30
matelBobBall: cool, I like this tab thing.15:30
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johnthetubaguyI just found the tab thing too, nice15:30
matelBobBall: teach us15:31
BobBallyou guys aren't from the IRC oldschool then15:31
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matelOkay, so after the IRC quickstart, BobBall wanted to look at the bugs.15:31
BobBallBack in the day(tm) I even wrote an IRC client.  Because there weren't enough of those around.15:32
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matelBobBall: I am so proud of knowing you15:32
johnthetubaguyBobBall: the bugs?15:32
BobBallNew bug
BobBallInteresting one because it has the same top-level fingerprint as a major gate fail15:32
BobBallbut don't get confused15:32
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BobBallthe "timeout waiting for XYZ" in this case is caused by an iscsi race15:33
BobBallArguably in nova or in XAPI15:33
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BobBallbut I've got a fix up at too15:33
matelUnboundLocalError - that's a programming issue.15:33
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johnthetubaguyyou are working on a fix right?15:33
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BobBallthe coding is shoddy15:33
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BobBallbut it's not actually an error as such15:33
BobBallthe code scans through an SR looking for a specific VDI which it assumes exists15:33
BobBalland it doesn't, so the value is unbound15:34
BobBallI've fixed both the shoddy coding and added a wait if the VDI isn't there quite yet15:34
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BobBallso we shouldn't get the unboundlocalerror and it should work too :)15:34
BobBallJust waiting on the Citrix CI to confirm it's happy with the change15:34
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BobBalljust wanted to highlight that it's a XenAPI specific bug which pretends to be the biggest gate blocker ATM15:35
BobBallso don't be fooled15:35
matelAh, I see15:35
johnthetubaguyvery good point15:35
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BobBallThat's all I wanted to say15:36
johnthetubaguycool, good heads up15:36
BobBalloh - not quite15:36
johnthetubaguythat is a bit of code that needs some… TLC15:36
johnthetubaguy(tender loving care)15:36
BobBallnow that the gate is open again... I'd quite like some core love on my nova patches15:36
johnthetubaguyyeah, I hear you15:36
johnthetubaguyI would love to get those in soon too15:36
johnthetubaguyI am just trying to write and test a new nova scheduler at the moment, so a bit distracted15:37
BobBall is the first in the series not yet merged15:37
johnthetubaguyI will try bring that up with other RAX types, once I give it a +215:37
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mateljohnthetubaguy: BobBall's happiness is just a few clicks away.15:37
BobBallhaha - I'm happy _right now_.15:37
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johnthetubaguyalso I could upset him...15:38
johnthetubaguybut anyways15:38
johnthetubaguy#topic Open Discussion15:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:38
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johnthetubaguyany one got anything?15:38
matelNone from me15:38
BobBallI thought so15:39
BobBallbut I can't remember what it was15:39
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BobBallso I'll say no15:39
johnthetubaguyso meeting ending in 3….15:39
thouvengI'm here :)15:39
thouvengbut nothing to add15:40
johnthetubaguy1 ...15:40
thouvengI'm thinking about all your comments :)15:40
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johnthetubaguyhave a good week, until next time...15:40
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:40
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jan 29 15:40:43 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:40
openstackMinutes (text):
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hartsocks#startmeeting vmwareapi17:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Jan 29 17:00:15 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:00
hartsocksGreetings stackers!17:00
hartsocksWho's about?17:00
brownei'm here17:01
rajdeepThis is rajdeep vmware india17:01
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hartsocksrajdeep: hey, welcome!17:01
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* mdbooth is here17:01
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hartsocksprobably a short meeting today17:02
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rajdeepwhat is the agenda17:03
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hartsocks:-) just pulling it up17:03
hartsocks#topic bugs17:03
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hartsocksAny new bugs to discuss?17:04
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hartsocksI will make my triage run later today.17:04
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hartsockshey garyk17:05
hartsockswe're just doing bugs17:05
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hartsocksI just asked who has a high priority bug they need to discuss here or need to draw attention to.17:05
garyki have addressed some bugs regarding race conditions that are blocking the CI17:05
garyki hope those get in17:05
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hartsocksFor the record could you link those in the IRC log here?17:05
mdboothIs anybody specifically focussing on the set of bugs which are causing Tempest failures?17:05
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hartsocksmdbooth: garyk has taken on this17:06
hartsocksgaryk: is this an accurate statement of your current efforts?17:06
garykyeah, something like that17:07
garyki am currently treating our ci issues17:07
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garykthat is minesweeper.17:08
mdboothminesweeper being the tool which runs vmwareapi tempest tests...17:08
* mdbooth is trying to jog his memory17:08
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hartsocksgaryk: there seems to be lag between you and I … I'll pause a bit longer to let you type17:09
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hartsocksgaryk: could you list these high priority bugs so those present could give them review attention?17:09
garyk and
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garykat the moment the minesweeper queue is 1 day deep. these 2 fixes will help shorten it considerably17:10
garykryan has validated them17:10
garykthat is all on my side17:11
hartsocksI plan on spending the afternoon with the Minesweeper team to get a better handle on things.17:11
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hartsocksIf I find anything to patch, I will coordinate with you first since you are working in this area.17:12
garykok, thnaks17:12
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mdboothIncidentally, there are a couple of outstanding reviews now where we're catching Exception17:12
mdboothDo we want to accept them as is, and hope we remember to raise more specific exceptions later17:13
garykmdbooth: at the moment we are not able to catch a specific exception - i have written a TODO for this.17:13
mdboothOr block now and fix it17:13
brownei noticed that too.  shouldn't we catch on a specific exception?17:13
garykmdbooth: i do not think it is reasonable to block these now - that would be detremental for the ci efforts17:13
garykthe connection does not raise the VC error - this is something that we need to develop17:14
hartsocksI'm satisfied with a TODO as it means new coders will know we don't like it but we can't address the problem right now.17:14
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garykif we had this - and not by parsing a string for the exception then could achieve it - but it is a future developemtn17:14
garykhartsocks: agreed17:14
mdboothMay I suggest that all these patches add entries to a central TODO list17:14
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mdboothor risk being missed when the problem is addressed later17:15
hartsocksI like this so much I'm putting it on my own backlog.17:15
garykmdbooth: feel free to open a bug on launchpad17:15
mdboothI think there's reasonable potential for hair loss here :)17:15
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garyknot sure that i agree but maybe i am just too practical for this discussion17:16
garykwhat i am trying to say is that we have a real issue. sadly the fix is as good as it gets at the moment without taking a few days of new developments. it solves a real problem17:16
hartsocksmdbooth,garyk: let's discuss this off line. Maybe I misunderstand something. Either way, a central report on all "TODO" items is a pretty standard thing to have. I'm sure there's a tool to make it.17:17
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rajdeepcan't we parse the exception string17:19
hartsocks#action discuss central TODO list of all known driver issues17:19
hartsocksrajdeep: I'm thinking that probably feels like a hack to people. And in general, it's nice to be able to catch as narrow an exception hierarchy as you can.17:20
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hartsocksrajdeep: it is possible that could be the only and best solution, but we would probably have to explain why so future maintainers don't sit in IRC having the same discussion we are having now. :-)17:21
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hartsocksJust to record those two reviews in the meeting notes summary… 1 second please17:21
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hartsocks#link - please review - priority performance bug17:22
hartsocks#link - please review - priority performance bug17:22
hartsocks… okay, that will show up in the notes now because I used the "#link" marker.17:22
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hartsocksMoving on.17:23
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hartsocksAnything else with bugs people would like to call out before we move to Blueprints discussion?17:23
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_mdbooth_My connection seems to have hug there, so I will have missed anything after the action item17:23
hartsockss'okay I was just marking things for the log generator.17:24
hartsocks#topic blueprints17:24
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hartsocksI may start doing this etherpad for each cycle. It lets us see priority order of blueprints.17:24
hartsocksBasically the short of it is we have 6 BP for Nova.17:25
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hartsocksThe top 2 are on Gary's plate and are also performance related.17:26
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garyki think that the 6 mentioned are already coded and waiting review17:26
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garykwe also have a few pending approval - some have already been implemented17:26
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hartsocksas far as I know these were all ready for i-217:26
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hartsocks(the top priority ones anyway)17:26
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garykcorrect. not sure if you guys saw russells mail from today/yesterday regardong bps for icehouse17:27
garykthe 4th feb is the last day to draft a bp17:27
garykthe 18th is the last day to have code for the bp17:27
garyknot sure if the core reviewers have cycles to deal with all of these, but that is another issue17:28
hartsocksall we can do is the best work we can.17:28
browneso, newbie, question: what's the procedural to get a blueprint approved?17:28
* hartsocks digs for link17:28
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hartsocksIn short, you propose it and you flip the little status widgets on it to record your progress.17:29
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hartsocksMany folks miss the part about setting your milestone.17:30
hartsockswe can go over that off line.17:30
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hartsocks(or on the other channel)17:30
hartsocksbrowne: do you have anything on your security blueprints or do you need more time?17:31
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brownei'm prototyping something for
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mdboothbrowne: Is the related to why you were asking about certificate checking?17:32
hartsocksI have rights on that BP so I'm flipping Implementation: to "In progress"17:32
brownemdbooth: no that was separate17:33
brownehartsocks: ok17:33
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hartsocksoh, it says I'm working on it… oh well. You know where the switch is now. When you are ready for core-reviewer you flip that to "needs review"17:34
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hartsocksmdbooth: we discussed you doing some light refactorings … do you have anything on that yet?17:35
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mdboothhartsocks: I started, but it was clear that I was heavily treading on outstanding patches17:35
mdboothe.g. at least 2 of garyk's17:35
mdboothnamely image cache and boot from iso17:35
hartsocksmdbooth: okay. Thanks for being aware of other developer's efforts.17:36
mdboothGiven that it's low priority, I don't think it's currently worth it17:36
mdboothWell, I have garyk to thank :)17:36
mdboothHe's extremely responsive to both reviews and on IRC17:36
hartsocksmdbooth: I am fairly certain it would have to be a BP anyway.17:36
garykmdbooth: you have spent valuable time finding a serious bug17:36
hartsockslet's not lose that information then.17:37
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hartsockscan we get that info recorded somewhere?17:37
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mdboothThere's a bug for the spawn() with multiple disks bug17:38
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mdboothI also spent a few hours writing pseudocode for the existing spawn()17:38
garyknice cath kudos17:39
mdboothAnd I've spent a good while looking at how libvirt does it17:39
mdboothI think we need an effort to have common code for this for all drivers17:39
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hartsocksit would be nice to have a coarser grained set of building blocks for what a driver does…17:40
hartsocks… or maybe something that allowed drivers to be thinner?17:40
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hartsocksBut that's a whole conversation there.17:41
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hartsocks(beyond just the fact that the drivers commonly duplicate code)17:41
mdboothIndeed. On this specific point, I think the arguments to spawn() could be improved17:41
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mdboothblock_device_mapping could be almost entirely resolved by the api17:42
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mdboothleaving the driver to do image cache management, and connect the previously mapped disks in order17:42
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hartsocksmdbooth: I'm hearing input from folks like yourself, vuil, vipin, garyk … it sounds like maybe we need to meet up and get on the same page.17:44
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hartsocksmdbooth: many of you may be working on the same ideas and it would be good to share the load.17:45
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hartsocksWe're kind of there anyway… so ...17:45
hartsocks#topic open discussion17:45
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mdboothI'd like to drawn attention to this:
mdboothSpecifically the test pattern17:46
mdboothI quite like it17:46
garykthat was the patch that i was giving the kudos for17:46
mdboothI've mocked the suds client17:46
hartsocksmdbooth: awesome17:46
hartsockshave I mentioned I don't like
mdboothAnyway, I think it's neat, and probably generally useful17:47
mdboothHence I'm bringing it up17:47
mdboothhartsocks: You did :)17:47
mdboothIf it's generally useful, it's probably in the wrong place17:47
hartsocksIf we're calling out work, I've been scratching around here:,n,z17:48
hartsocks… mostly … I was after this:17:48
hartsocksline 12017:49
vuilmdbooth: Yeah, nice work. That is a neat useful way to mock the soap calls.17:49
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hartsocks… I'm not 100% sure it's good work but I'm trying to find something better.17:49
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hartsocksThe basic premise is I noted the driver will sometimes try and "wait_for_task" ...17:50
hartsocks… but there's no previous task on the session.17:50
hartsocksSo I was hoping to find some way we could do something like a database transaction.17:50
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hartsocksThis is probably too big to realistically make icehouse but the BP is approved.17:51
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hartsocksI consider it lower priority than gary's work.17:52
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hartsocksanything else to discuss?17:53
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garyknot on my side17:55
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hartsocksWe'll knock off early for once.17:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:56
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jan 29 17:56:18 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:56
openstackMinutes (text):
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: hi, thanks for making it :-)17:59
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: Hi Sumit17:59
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: garyduan yisun there?18:00
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SumitNaiksatamok lets get started18:02
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SumitNaiksatam#startmeeting Networking FWaaS18:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Jan 29 18:02:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas'18:02
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SumitNaiksatam#info feature proposal freeze deadline is Feb 18th18:02
SumitNaiksatamany thoughts/questions on that?18:03
SridarKso all BP's shd be in approved state18:03
SridarKby then ?18:03
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: i think patches have to land by then18:03
SridarKok so the patch shd be in review18:04
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: yeah, nicer way to put it :-)18:04
SridarKand we have until Mar 6 (or couple of days b4) to get it merged18:04
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: yeah18:04
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SridarKI will need to get the CLI for service insertion (complement to RajeshMohan's patch) out for review soon18:05
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SridarKWill sync up with u guys offline and push it out possibly by end of the week18:05
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: ok good18:06
SumitNaiksatamlets get that as a part of the particular topic as well18:06
SridarKok sorry18:06
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: oh on worries, thanks for brining it up18:06
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: since you are around, lets start with the tempest updated18:07
SumitNaiksatam#topic temptest testing18:07
*** openstack changes topic to "temptest testing (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:07
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: whats the latest on this?18:07
SridarKeven b4 tempest - basic manual testing of VPNaaS and FWaaS looks good18:07
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: yeah, good, we would like to know :-)18:08
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: hi18:08
SridarKwant to try a few more and will wrap it up with a log/doc18:08
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: ok18:08
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: but can we spin off a tempest run in parallel?18:08
SridarKon tempest, see many failures, then disabled fwaas & vpnaas and see similar kind of issues18:09
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SridarKfailures are in many other components not quite related18:09
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: ok, do those correlate to existing issues in recheck?18:09
SridarKso checking to see if i need to set up the conf any differently18:09
SridarKi am checking on that18:09
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SridarKcould possibly be the same18:10
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SridarKgiven that base line also has issues - i dont think we are introducing any additional failures18:10
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SridarKbut need to validate that to be sure18:10
SridarKthen we can put out a report18:10
beyounnI had the same problem when I run tempest for my service group18:11
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: ok18:11
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: just so that we are on the same page, how are you running the tempest tests?18:11
SridarKI was hoping to get a summary report so it will be easier to verify - have not figured out how to do tht yet18:11
SridarKi use the run_tempest script18:12
SridarKand am using the default conf that is present18:12
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: so, you are not using tester?18:12
SridarKi was not sure abt this so have asked for some local clarifications18:12
SridarKi thought this is a wrapper over that18:12
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SridarKperhaps i am wrong18:13
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SridarKSumitNaiksatam: I could also sync up with u more on this offline18:14
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: ok, but you are not still seeing the summarized information on the tests, right?18:14
SridarKno i did not - i do see results but have not seen summary18:15
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: ok, we sync up offline18:15
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: Ok will do18:15
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SumitNaiksatamSridarK: by next week we want to give an firm update on whether the gate can turn on fwaas18:18
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: this is independent of the tempest test failures that are already known18:18
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: Yes will have this wrapped up in the next day or two18:18
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SridarKSo as long as we are not introducing anything new we are good and can provide that update for the next neutron mtg18:19
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: ok, i think documenting your findings is a good idea18:19
SridarK* new failures18:19
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: Sounds good - we can review b4 the mtg18:19
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: as you were planning, if you can create a new child page on the fwaas wiki, we can point the rest of the community to it18:20
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SridarKSumitNaiksatam: Will do18:20
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: any chance that we can have this info by friday?18:21
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SridarKSumitNaiksatam: Yes should not be a problem18:22
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: great, thanks18:22
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SumitNaiksatamok so moving on18:23
SumitNaiksatamis garyduan around?18:24
beyounnno, here is not in yet18:24
SumitNaiksatamah ok18:24
SumitNaiksatam#topic service_type framework18:24
*** openstack changes topic to "service_type framework (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:24
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SumitNaiksatambeyounn: do you know if garyduan is planning to rebase?18:26
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beyounnhe will do that18:26
beyounnI will follow up with him and see if he can have time to do it today18:27
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: great18:27
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: at this point just a rebase, and that should trigger another build18:27
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: are there any other blockers for him that you are aware of?18:28
beyounnI don't know, but I will check with him18:28
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: ok thanks18:28
SumitNaiksatam#topic Service Insertion and Firewall18:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Service Insertion and Firewall (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:29
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: hi18:29
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: i know you are blocked a little bit by the service type patch18:29
RajeshMohanIf we are confident that it will be merged - then I can move my changes to Gary's patch18:30
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: i think we should do that18:30
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: at this point its matter of when versus if18:30
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: but what about the other changes we were planning18:31
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: In that case, I will move to his patch first18:31
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: ok18:31
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: so you will first rebase off his patch, and then make the earlier planned changes?18:32
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam:I am already looking at his patch but developing my code on trunk18:32
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: Yes, I will move to his patch first and then make the planned changes18:32
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: ok18:32
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: thanks18:33
SumitNaiksatamso while SridarK is still here18:33
SumitNaiksatamI believe we need have to sync up on the CLI?18:33
SridarKI am here :-)18:33
SumitNaiksatamSridarK RajeshMohan?18:33
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SumitNaiksatamyou guys already have a plan?18:34
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SumitNaiksatamelse we can set aside some time for a meeting18:34
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam:we (Sridar & myself) will synch up offline18:34
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: RajeshMohan: Yes that was our thought to meet to run thru the changes18:35
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: we will update in the next meeting18:35
SridarKWe can discuss offline to sched a time18:35
SumitNaiksatam#action SridarK to set up offline meeting to discuss insertion CLI18:35
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: any thoughts on Horizon integration18:36
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: we need the client before that, but we need that as well18:36
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam:I think it will be useful to start on Horizon after we post some initial patch of CLI18:37
garyduansorry, I am late18:37
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: ok, only thing is the timing18:38
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: hi18:38
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: we can circle back to you once we are done with the other topics18:38
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: i am not sure if we will have enough time to post the patch before I318:38
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam:I understand. In the worst case, the horizon will not be broken18:38
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan SridarK: what do you think?18:38
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: So will definitely try to get the CLI out as quickly as possible18:39
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan SridarK: also what is our contingency?18:39
SridarKI guess we defn need to have this correct ?18:39
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: yeah18:39
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: The horizon will not pass insertion-context and we will make sure the code works as before18:39
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: ok, but that would mean applying the changes on all routers18:40
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: i think we should have the horizon patch at least18:40
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: lets discuss during CLI meeting18:41
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: What I am saying is, if we cannot meet the I3 timeline, we will not break Horizon with this new feature18:41
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: agree18:41
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: ok, anything more on this topic?18:41
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam:Just to confirm, to merge, is Horizon a must?18:42
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: not that i am aware of18:42
garyduanOne more question, not sure if it's discussed today18:42
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: we would would need CLI/client though18:42
garyduanabout if we need source/dest context?18:42
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam:I do not want to write some code and not merge. Horizon looks difficult at this stage.18:42
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RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam:Yes - agree on CLI18:43
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: you mean write code for Horizon which does not merge?18:43
RajeshMohangaryduan: Zones is planned for Firewall18:43
RajeshMohangaryduan: I think zones are the way to attach semantics to ports18:43
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan RajeshMohan sorry, lets wrap up the discussion on horizon support18:44
RajeshMohangaryduan: the insertion context solves the problem of reference implementation - we insert firewall on all routers which is really bad18:44
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garyduanRajeshMohan: let's discuss later18:44
SumitNaiksatam: RajeshMohan: you mean write code for Horizon which does not merge?18:45
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam:No write code for insertion-context and not merge18:45
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: ah, on account of horizon dependency?18:45
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam:I am ok if Horizon code does not merge18:45
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: Yes18:45
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: i have not seen that to be a requirement before18:46
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam:if it is only dependent on CLI, then we have good chance to get in by I318:46
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: i don't think anything has changed18:46
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: yeah18:46
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: so we are good, lets focus first as planned on your patch and the CLI, but at the side also explore what needs to be done for Horizon18:47
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: will do; did we decide who will work on it?18:47
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: no specific person assigned for Horizon yet, thinking was that we will discuss and see how we can share it18:48
RajeshMohanSumitNaiksatam: who will work on Horizon - I can help with whatever I know but I am not planning to code that part18:48
SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: ok we can take it offline and see how we can handle that18:48
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: your question about source/dest18:49
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: one point is what RajeshMohan mentioned regarding zones18:49
garyduanI understand Router context doesn't require s/d18:49
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: i also commented regarding there being a list of resource ids18:49
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: so you can specify multiple18:49
SridarKGuys sorry i need to bail now - will sync up later offline18:50
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: thanks much for joining, later18:50
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: does that not sound okay?18:50
SridarKlter bye18:50
garyduanSumitNaiksatam: my understanding is subnet/port does need source and dest18:51
RajeshMohangaryduan: the insertion-context is common for all services18:51
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SumitNaiksatamRajeshMohan: thats correct18:52
RajeshMohangaryduan: source-dest makes sense for firewall18:52
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SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: ok lets take this discussion offline18:52
garyduanRajeshMohan: ok. so firewall, we only use router for insertion18:53
SumitNaiksatam#action garyduan to initiate offline discussion on source/dest for subnets/ports18:53
garyduanRajeshMohan: until we have chain18:53
SumitNaiksatamsince beyounn has been waiting lets give him some time :-)18:53
SumitNaiksatam#topic Service Objects18:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Service Objects (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:53
beyounnMine will be quick18:53
RajeshMohangaryduan: I would like to discuss this in more depth with you; let's do it offline18:54
beyounnI sent email, please help to review18:54
beyounnand here are links18:54
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beyounnDone, thanks :-)18:54
beyounnBTW-- the CLI unit testing is coming too18:55
beyounnAnd one more question18:55
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: sweet18:55
beyounnIf I have unit test  cases, do I still need to write separate tempest?18:55
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SumitNaiksatambeyounn: we will eventually need to write tempest tests for every feature18:56
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: so yes18:56
beyounnAll done from me18:56
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: i don't know that it's a requirement for the neutron patch18:56
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: i don't think so18:56
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SumitNaiksatambeyounn: so you are not blocked on anything, right?18:56
beyounnjust code review18:57
RajeshMohanbeyounn: How is this mapped to IPTables - the reference implementation?18:57
beyounnRajesh: Let's talk about this after I finished CLI unit test18:57
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RajeshMohanbeyounn: Is IPTables aware of service-objects or it still works with protocol and port numbers?18:57
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RajeshMohanbeyounn:OK, thanks.18:57
beyounnRajesh:At this stage, no one known service-object test18:58
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: yeah, we would need the backend driver implementation for the APIs to go in18:58
beyounnthe service-object is just a separated resource18:58
beyounnSumit: all right18:58
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: no rush, you have marked it as WIP18:58
beyounnSumit: right, but please do take a look and give feedbacks18:59
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: when we move it out of WIP, we will need an end-to-end flow working18:59
RajeshMohanbeyounn:is this feature for Icehouse?18:59
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: yes sure, not saying that we should not review18:59
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beyounnRajesh, I'm not rush it for I release at the moment18:59
RajeshMohanbeyounn: ok, then we have lot of time :-)19:00
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: but you will unfortunately not get too many cores looking at it until there is end to end flow work19:00
beyounnRajesh, but it we can catch on the I train, that is greate19:00
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garyduanBTW, I just rebased and submitted path for service type framework.19:00
beyounnSumit, understood, and I will work on it after the cli unit test19:00
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: great thanks19:01
SumitNaiksatamwe are out time19:01
SumitNaiksatamthanks all for attending19:01
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SumitNaiksatammore follow up over emails and mailers19:02
SumitNaiksatamthanks all!19:02
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Jan 29 19:02:10 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:02
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stevebaker#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Jan 29 20:00:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:00
stevebaker#topic rollcall20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
stevebakerhi all!20:00
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stevebakerno actions last week20:01
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stevebaker#topic adding items to the agenda20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"20:01
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stevebakerany extra topics?20:02
stevebakeralright then20:02
stevebaker#topic Remove the intention of ever having an XML API20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Remove the intention of ever having an XML API (Meeting topic: heat)"20:02
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stevebakersdake: I haven't even said anything yet ;)20:03
shardystevebaker: jasond` wanted to discuss
sdake+2/+A then ;)20:03
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stevebakerso nova have decided to remove XML support from their new v3 API, and nobody seems to mind20:03
SpamapS+1 for burning XML20:03
sdakexml had its time - and that time has passed20:04
shardy+2 lets kill xml, except for the CFN API where it already works20:04
stevebakerapparently java binds nicely to json, so that is a non-issue20:04
* samkottler waves20:04
zanebstevebaker: so, this one time I wanted to add something to the agenda and it hadn't been created yet. So I copied the last week's and left it there because I didn't know if we moved them to another location? And ever since then we have an infinitely-extending list of old agendas20:04
zanebsamkottler: o/20:04
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stevebakerall this means for us is that there is a *bunch* of zaneb TODOs which can be deleted :D20:05
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stevebakerzaneb: what is the agenda item to add?20:05
zanebOK, let's delete them. Because we already decided not to do a native XML  api over a year ago20:05
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sdakestevebaker I think zaneb's agenda item is cleaning up the agenda page on the wiki :)20:06
stevebaker#agreed XML can die in a fire20:06
zanebstevebaker: maybe add an agenda item about removing old agendas from the agenda page ;)20:06
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stevebakerzaneb: I'd rather have a vote on that20:06
sdakei think zaneb kind of ninja added it20:06
sdakebut vote wfm20:06
stevebakerthat was a joke20:06
zanebstevebaker: I'm just pointing out that it was all my fault20:06
zanebso sorry20:06
* zaneb returns to his corner20:07
stevebaker#topic Policy on deprecating cfn features in the HOT spec20:07
andersonvomstevebaker, zaneb: I think we should have previous agenda and current agenda.20:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Policy on deprecating cfn features in the HOT spec (Meeting topic: heat)"20:07
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stevebakerso this was being discussed just now in #heat20:07
andrew_plunkbasically some breaking changes were introduced into hot, and either a database migration needs to be introduced, or we need to support a schema with 'String' and 'string'20:08
zanebso HOT is basically a hacked up prototype on top of the CFN code20:08
zanebas we create a proper implementation for it, some things that were never proper HOT but which worked will break20:09
zaneband andrew_plunk has found the first example of that20:09
SpamapSI'm of the ilk that documentation trumps accidental implementation20:09
shardyAFAIK we have never yet declared HOT to be stable (in fact I specifically said it wasn't when we released Havana)20:09
sdakewe aren't locked into hot yet20:09
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sdakei think we agreed icehosue would be the first stable version20:10
zanebI agree and said as much in #heat20:10
tspatzierzaneb: what was the problem andrew_plunk found?20:10
sdakebut we should consider that decision carefully20:10
andrew_plunkit is still painful to introduce breaking changes without some kind of migration20:10
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SpamapSAlso I feel that the HOT in Havana was discouraged to even be used, and thus I don't think we should try too hard to coddle early adopters.. but we should try hard to make it clear that this is the policy.20:10
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zanebthe issue is for people who have templates in the db that Heat now cannot read20:10
andrew_plunkthe hot schema used to support the type 'String'20:10
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andrew_plunktspatzier ^^20:10
zanebtspatzier: it was type: String vs string20:10
stevebakerCan we say that the "migration" for any changes up to icehouse will be deleting and re-creating your stack?20:10
sdakestevebaker wfm20:11
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andrew_plunkimagine people with production heat20:11
zanebstevebaker: you won't be able to delete your stack either20:11
SpamapSalso it wouldn't hurt to just poll the openstack@ mailing list to find out if anybody's world will implode if we break havana's HOT.20:11
tspatzierzaneb, andrew_plunk : ah yes, that was the thing I actually changed in tempest20:11
stevebakerzaneb: and fixing any issues which result in undeletable stacks20:11
shardyandrew_plunk: why would they be using HOT in production, when we specifically said it was unstable?20:11
chmouelwould that only be for templates using hot?20:11
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chmouelor cfn as well?20:11
andrew_plunkAnyone can submit templates against our hot20:12
stevebakerchmouel: only hot, cfn should be stable20:12
zanebSpamapS: we had a tempest test failing and andrew_plunk and tims have both had problems, so it's safe to say the answer will be 'yes'20:12
andrew_plunkyou can submit whatever syntax you want.20:12
andrew_plunkagainst our heat*20:12
zanebchmouel: only HOT20:12
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kebraystevebaker I don't like that delete and re-create approach.  The community for Heat is large, even if people are only using it for experimental purposes.20:12
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SpamapSzaneb: hm. Tempest tests I'm not worried about.. that is something we have direct control over. Andrew and Tim can chime in on whether it was world-imploding or just inconvenient.20:13
zanebSpamapS: it's drop-your-db-and-start-again inconvenient20:13
sdakekebray it seems clear we had a developer consensus that hot was not prime time for havana20:13
andrew_plunkI think it is pretty standard in software development that if you introduce a breaking change, you migrate over the data that you are breaking20:13
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tspatzierSo there have been some code pieces that accepted "legacy" spelling, and we only kept samples in heat-templates in one format. What happened now was that one of those tolerant code pieces got removed.20:13
sdakekebray what do you suggest, supporting something we did not agree we would support?20:14
kebraysdake I'm not arguing that point.20:14
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SpamapSzaneb: that's a bug, isn't it?20:14
tspatzierI would opt for removing all such pieces and force everyone to stick to the hot specification20:14
kebraysdake I'm suggesting that, when possible, we minimize the breaking change or provide a migration path.  I think that can be done in this case, no?20:14
zanebSpamapS: well, you have your template stored in the database. it was valid at the time you created the stack, but now it's not, so Heat can't load it20:14
sdakekebray if an exception is made once, it sets a precedence that an exception can be made later20:15
sdakethis is the problem with standards in general20:15
sdakewhen we say we are going to support forward migration, we better mean it :)20:15
sdakewe said no such thing previously20:15
zanebas much as I wish we could ignore this problem, I think kebray is right20:15
stevebakerthis would be the first migration which needs to load the template data-structure, change something, and save it again. If someone did the tooling to make that easy then that sounds like a useful thing anyway20:15
SpamapSzaneb: right, that seems like a bug in Heat.20:15
zanebso let's talk about possible solutions20:15
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zaneb1) add a DB migration to fix up existing templates20:16
zaneb2) continue accepting broken templates up until a certain date. If people don't update by then, they're hosed20:16
stevebaker+1 on 1) if somebody is prepared to write the migration20:17
zaneb3) bump the version date of HOT. only accept the cfn stuff for the older version20:17
andrew_plunk2 will require people to migrate their database anyway, so I vote for #120:17
stevebakerwe'll need a volunteer to sign up for this one though20:17
andrew_plunkI volunteer for the migration20:17
andersonvom+1 on (1) as well.20:17
stevebakerandrew_plunk: nice one20:17
sdakeso just that I understand the migration20:18
sdakethe idea is the hot spec will still be "string" but the database will be modified on first-run of heat-engine to change String to "string" ?20:18
chmouelmake me think we should add a template validaton job to heat-templates jenkins gate20:18
zanebsdake: we go through the database, and fix any existing HOT templates in there20:18
stevebakersdake: it will just be a migration script, like the others20:18
cmyster1++ plus in 2, people uploading broken templates might complain20:18
andrew_plunkcorrect sdake: I think we should check for other types too20:18
zanebsdake: yes, but as stevebaker said20:19
sdakecool that works for me - in that case no exception is made20:19
sdakewe are just fixing a bug via an extra tool rather then providing exceptions to the standard20:19
zanebandrew_plunk: yeah, just convert all type: values to lower case20:19
kebraysdake cool.. works for me too.  I'm happy.20:19
andrew_plunksounds good zaneb20:19
stevebaker#topic Rackspace authentication is broken20:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Rackspace authentication is broken (Meeting topic: heat)"20:19
tspatzierThere some more of those issues in the current HOT code. E.g. in a resource you can use 'type' or 'Type', or 'properties' or 'Properties'. We should fix this also ASAP20:20
zanebtspatzier: ++20:20
shardySo, I added some comments to the bug, jasond` can you summarize your position?20:20
stevebakerI suppose this also means standalone heat on havana openstack is also broken? (or is keystone v3 complete in havana?)20:20
shardydo you have a migration path towards v3 keystone (or something compatible?)20:20
jasond`so, rackspace uses v2 of its keystone-like API.  we just need a way to support v2 along with v320:21
shardystevebaker: only until the keystone bugs I fixed get backported to stable/havana20:21
tspatzierzaneb: I can open a bug and do this change. Should be easy. This would be another thing that the migration script would fix then, right?20:21
jasond`i don't know when rackspace might upgrade to v320:21
shardyHavana has v3 keystone, it's just the RAX $thing_not_keystone doesn't20:21
stevebakershardy: OK20:21
kebraystevebaker  Rackspace does have a plan to support v3... but, it's gonna be a bit.20:22
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shardykebray: keystone are deprecating v2 for Juno20:22
jasond`shardy: (it's called the identity service)20:22
shardyso we need to migrate to v3 regardless, and we need the v3 features now20:22
kebrayshardy yep.. understood.. but, that doesn't mean that large public clouds make the switch the day Juno code is ready.20:22
zanebtspatzier: ideally the migration should happen in the same patch, so maybe it is better in a separate script. Copying parts of the first script should make it easy (if not efficient)20:22
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SpamapSprobably worth making keystone pluggable.20:23
shardykebray: but most public clouds will upgrade their entire cloud, no, e.g Icehouse Heat and Icehoue keystone?20:23
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sdakeshardy I think that is not always the case unfortunately20:23
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SpamapSIn phases sometimes.20:23
andrew_plunk+1 SpamapS20:23
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tspatzierzaneb: ok, I guess I'll synch up with andrew_plunk on the first migration script he will be writing20:23
sdakeshardy some faster moving projects will update more often like neutron and heat20:23
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stevebakerkebray: I think this is partly the tension of the heat which is fully integrated with the current development cycle, and the heat which is deployed on older/different clouds20:23
andrew_plunksounds good tspatzier20:24
kebrayshardy don't we all wish things were that easy :-)20:24
SpamapSthing is, I think we can work with the keystone v3 in havana, right?20:24
zanebsdake: well, the question is how many OpenStack releases back should we be targeting support for?20:24
sdakezaneb good question, I believe long ago we said 1 release back20:24
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zanebsdake: we test zero releases back, so there is a clue20:24
shardykebray: well we do have some compatibility with older keystone, but we do need v3 auth20:24
zanebthat maybe we will have a bad time20:24
stevebakerif it is not tested, it is broken ;)20:24
SpamapSso as long as Icehouse Heat works with havana keystone, we've covered the most common pure-OpenStack upgrade scenarios.20:24
SpamapSzaneb: grenade?20:25
zanebSpamapS: no thanks20:25
kebrayis keystone v2 still supported when icehouse is cut, yes?20:25
SpamapSkebray: yes20:25
zanebSpamapS: I just had one20:25
shardySpamapS: Havana keystone will work, but there are a couple of pending bugfix backports (mentioned in my commit messages)20:25
stevebakerSpamapS: doesn't grenade that only test upgrades?20:25
sdakekeystone v2 is deprecated in icehouse iirc20:25
kebrayso, why would we force use of v3 in icehouse?20:25
kebraysdake ok.. I think it's important we sort that out.20:26
SpamapSstevebaker: yeah I think it upgrades everything20:26
sdakeshardy can you confirm v2 is deprecated in icehouse?20:26
shardykebray: because the features we need don't exist in v2 keystone20:26
SpamapSkebray: because v2 doesn't do everything Heat needs.20:26
sdake(the api in keystone)20:26
shardysdake: Yes, there are lots of noisy warnings in the log to that effect20:26
stevebakerso if someone wrote a v2 shim, should it live in contrib or heat?20:27
zanebshardy: you said deprecated in Juno... did you mean removed in Juno?20:27
sdakeclients are supposed to be forward compatible, so I guess the issue comes down to we are using features which are not in the v2 api which are in the v3 api20:27
SpamapSI don't think we should just tell v2-only alternative keystone backends to stuff it. I do think the onus is on those users to keep that support alive.20:27
kebrayshardy  SpamapS   right.. so, new feature needs v3... but, that feature shouldn't be a requirement to run Heat or for Heat to work until v2 is depricated.20:27
sdakedeprecated means it will be removed soon typically20:28
sdakeok, so lets focus on the actual problem, which I think comes down to programming time left before i320:28
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sdakeshardy is there time to add v2 and v3 support to icehosue heat?20:29
shardy2014-01-29 20:28:41.793 2230 WARNING keystone.openstack.common.versionutils [-] Deprecated: v2 API is deprecated as of Icehouse in favor of v3 API and may be removed in K.20:29
sdake(if your the only guy doing the work)20:29
sdakeeg, to make it backwards compatible20:29
shardysdake: I've just been removing the hybrid v2/v3 support, because supporting both is a total mess20:29
shardysdake: My proposal is to make the heat_keystoneclient wrapper pluggable so there could be a contrib v2 client20:30
sdakeI get that it is architecturally ugly to have v2 and v3 in the same codebase20:30
shardyand I can make the domain features optional via the config file (defaulted to on), like trusts20:30
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sdakeso this theoretical v2 cient would model the v3 api then shardy?20:30
shardysdake: exactly the same interfaces, but raise NotImplemented exceptions for all the trusts/domains stuff20:31
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shardypersonally I don't want to maintain it though, it's too much effort to test properly20:31
stevebakerkebray: It looks like we're angling for volunteers again ;)20:32
sdakeso shardy just to be clear, I think your pretty swamped just getting v3 rolling and basically don't have bandwidth to deal with a v2 plugin20:32
shardysdake: exactly20:32
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sdakekebray I think there is a path forward, but as stevebaker points out, in need of a volunteer :)20:32
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shardyIf someone wants to independently maintain a v2 plugin, in contrib or /deprecated or something, that's fine20:32
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kebraystevebaker not sure who exactly, but we have to stay on v2 for some period of time.. it's not an option.  You don't just upgrade a large public cloud (all services) all at once over night :-)20:32
shardybut look at the code in Havana and tell me we want a common client for both versions - we really don't20:33
kebrayso, someone at Rackspace will pick it up if no one else does.20:33
stevebakerkebray: we need a v2 shim, but we *really* need icehouse heat to not require admin users to launch stacks20:33
sdakeya, admin for wait conditions really makes heat look sloppy20:34
shardystevebaker: Note those to requirements are mutually exclusive20:34
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sdakehopefully rax can sort that out in their further updates20:34
kebrayagreed an admin user shouldn't be required to launch stacks... iirc, this revolves around admin API capabilities for doing a GET on all stacks.20:34
shardykebray: doesn't the admin requirement make v2 unworkable for you anyway?20:34
stevebakeror does rax heat not support waitconditions?20:34
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SpamapSkebray: How awesome is identity services btw? Like, does it actually order pizza for you, or does it just call an API that orders pizza for you? (trying to figure out why nobody at Rackspace is working on deploying _keystone_)20:35
kebrayshardy  the way the admin requirement landed in patches, you are correct that v2 is unworkable, because the patches landed as requiring v3 trusts (if I understand correctly)20:35
shardykebray: The issue is heat creates keystone users for certain resources, and for Icehouse I want them to be in a separate heat specific domain, which requires v3 keystone20:35
kebraySpamapS  hehe.. there is history.. but, I won't derail this meeting with it.20:35
shardythen heat can create the users, instead of the user (so they won't need admin)20:35
sdakeshardy I think your approach is correct, and rax is just up against a specific business problem they need to solve20:36
shardykebray: this has nothing to do with trusts20:36
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SpamapSkebray: I heard some other large public OpenStack provider has a keystone work-alike too.. ;)20:36
sdakethe answer isn't "find another way"  the answer is "v2 plugin auth with notimplemented raises"20:36
kebrayshardy yep, that's the best go-forward solution, agreed.  But, in general I want to bring Heat (and HOT) to customers soon... but, HOT isn't ready for customers, which mean Heat isn't ready for customers.  So, I want what I can't have from the beginning :-)20:36
zanebkebray: the admin requirement didn't land in patches, you've always needed admin to create a stack with certain types of resources in it20:37
shardykebray: This is to do with WaitConditionHandle and ScalingPolicy resources (and User resources associated with ec2 credentials)20:37
SpamapS"Sometimes the wanting, is better than the having." -- George Clooney20:37
kebrayzaneb ok.. I think I'm confusing my streams of terminology.20:37
zanebkebray: the _fix_ for that landed in patches, but requires keystone v320:37
sdakei'd rather have then want personally :)20:37
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shardyzaneb: The fix for that is still in the process of landing ;)20:38
sdakeI dont think its worth beating  up on kebray any more, keith do you agree that the solution outlined is workable on your end?20:38
stevebakerok, lets move on20:38
shardybut the admin thing has nothing do do with trusts20:38
shardytrusts are about not storing the user password, and working with token-only auth20:38
kebraysdake I'll get my experts to explain it to me in lamen terms. We'll bring back to the mailing list if needed.20:39
zanebshardy: right, but both trusts and the admin fix require v3 keystone?20:39
sdakekebray sounds good20:39
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stevebaker#topic Autoscaling20:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Autoscaling (Meeting topic: heat)"20:39
sdakeneed more minerals20:39
shardyzaneb: Yes, both require v3 keystone, which is why I'm saying "lets just use that"20:39
stevebakerradix: therve just wanted to know the plan, but can't attend this meeting20:40
zanebideally, yeah20:40
shardyI realize that it's difficult for Rax due to divergence from openstack auth, but from an upstream perpective, we really have to focus on what works with recent keystone20:40
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sdakeshardy I think everyone is in total agreement - kebray just has a specific business problem to sort out and there is a path to get there20:41
chmouelI think joesavak was saying that auth v3 on RAX should be available sometime this year and v2 and v3 can be both exposed20:41
SpamapSAUto scaling.. what _is_ the plan exactly?20:41
shardysdake: yup20:41
zanebsdake: is there though?20:41
kebrayshardy, departure from keystone isn't the problem.  We are just on keystone v2 instead of v3.20:41
stevebakerchmouel: maybe this will be... motivating20:41
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chmouelstevebaker: :)20:42
sdakezaneb my understanding of the proposal is to make a v3 api that only does v2 things and raises not implemented when v3 things are used20:42
shardykebray: Ah, but it is keystone?20:42
kebrayshardy it is a keystone compatible contract.20:42
sdakezaneb and rax will have to sort that problem out since we dont have their auth system in devstack :)20:42
shardykebray: lol20:42
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zanebsdake: we can do that, but e.g. rax will not be able to use, say, autoscaling because it requires the user to be admin20:43
sdakezaneb understood, autoscaling and waitconditions are out because of the limitations of rax auth20:43
zanebwhich, it turns out, is not some tenant-local role but gives you access to the whole world20:43
kebraysdake you do have keystone v2 in devstack, yes?  that's the concern... not Rax auth, as if something works against keystone v2, it'll work at Rax.20:43
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sdakekebray I see, but t he issue is heat is broken as is against the v2 api - that is why the v3 api was invented :)20:44
kebrayso, Autoscale?20:44
shardyNo openstack project promises indefinite backwards comaptibilty, that's the whole point of the coordinated release and stable brances20:44
shardykebray: not without admin, which is why I'm so keen to fix this problem :)20:45
zanebkebray: I think that the only reason keystone vs. rax auth matters is because if you were using keystone you'd probably have upgraded by now. I recognise that I'm probably preaching to the choir here ;)20:45
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andersonvomshardy: so, if we have v3 in place and a v2 shim, in the near future, what would be broken for folks using the v2shim?20:46
sdakeautoscaling and wait conditions20:46
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sdakethe same stuff that is broken currently20:46
stevebakerunless you're an admin user20:46
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shardyandersonvom: Anything using SignalResponder resources (WaitConditions, AutoScaling) and User Resources which are used for cfn-hup and cfn-push-stats agents20:46
stevebaker#topic PTL is on leave, nobody notices20:47
*** openstack changes topic to "PTL is on leave, nobody notices (Meeting topic: heat)"20:47
kebrayzaneb, even the folks that run keystone implementation have differing auth needs and extend it.. we are certainly not the only ones who are doing that!20:47
stevebakerI'm away for next week's Projects meeting, and Heat meeting. Can anybody volunteer to cover?20:48
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zanebstevebaker: can do20:48
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stevebakerzaneb: cool, thanks. There is a short 1-1 with ttx 90 minutes before the Projects meeting too, which takes place in #openstack-relmgr-office20:49
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zanebhow much pain should I expect? ;)20:50
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stevebakerttx: zaneb will be your torture monkey next week for Heat20:50
stevebakerits not too bad20:51
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stevebakersince its so early in i-3 we can maintain our delusion ;)20:51
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stevebaker#topic Open discussion20:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"20:51
zanebtbh I think it's time for mass panic20:51
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stevebakerI'd like to cut a heatclient release, but there are many pending reviews,n,z20:52
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kebray+1 stevebaker!20:52
stevebaker8 minutes, anything else to raise?20:52
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cmysterHi, I'm new, nice to be here20:53
* stevebaker needs to try out the heatclient requests change20:53
stevebakercmyster: hi20:53
zanebcmyster: welcome!20:53
shardyNote to anyone with broken master heatclient :
chmouelstevebaker: please :)20:53
kebrayQuestion:  Are we planning to call HOT stable when Icehouse is cut?20:54
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cmysteranywho, I'll start taking over (slowly) automation of, well, hopfully everything. but I have loads to learn still.20:54
shardycmyster: welcome :)20:55
stevebakerkebray: yes20:55
cmysterthanks again shardy20:55
zanebstevebaker: in that case, definitely time for panic :D20:55
kebraystevebaker what are the biggest risks (if any) to that happening?20:55
kebraybesides zaneb  panicking.20:56
stevebakerkebray: I mean it will continue to evolve during Juno, but we'll be caring *much* more about backwards compat20:56
tspatzierstevebaker: I was just going to ask what stable means. I think you just answered.20:56
zanebkebray: biggest risk is that we can't get to plugin template formats, which will allow us to maintain multiple versions easily20:57
stevebakerwe should spend feature freeze checking that it is actually possible to write real templates with HOT, and fix bugs as we find them20:57
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shardystevebaker: we could use a lot more examples in heat-templates20:57
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stevebakershardy: I'd prefer a template writing guide, but I've ranted enough about that. Maybe we'll have time to write one20:58
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tspatzierstevebaker: there already is one. I guess we'll have to extend it based on new features like software orchestration, get_file etc.20:59
cmystertspatzier: link please ?20:59
tspatzier... but samples are still the thing most people start with20:59
stevebakertspatzier: yes, I mean extending the current guide with many recipe-style mini tutorials on how to achieve specific things with the best HOT style21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jan 29 21:00:29 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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cmysterwonderful stevebaker, bookmarked21:00
stevebakerthanks all21:00
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jd__#startmeeting ceilometer21:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Jan 29 21:01:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'21:01
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gibi o/21:01
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jd__#topic Milestone status icehouse-321:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Milestone status icehouse-3 (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:03
jd__I've removed a few blueprints for i3 already21:04
eglynn-afkthe urgency of the oslo-messaging switchover has increased recently /me thinks21:04
jd__there's no chance we do all of that in that timeframe21:04
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eglynn... as it becomes clear that oslo-rpc is not long for this world21:04
jd__so please drop your blueprint from the list of you know you won't do it21:04
jd__eglynn: sileht is working on that with dhellmann and markmc already21:04
eglynni.e. seems oslo-rpc is being effectively locked down and IIUC fixes are only going into olso-messaging21:04
jd__I don't think we can do more21:05
jd__but I do agree that it's an important stone21:05
dhellmanneglynn: yeah, we're trying to treat the rpc code in the incubator as a "stable branch" of oslo.messaging21:05
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jd__I don't have much on that topic yet, anyone?21:06
eglynndhellmann: yeah so anything olso-rpc based is probably going to become increasingly problematic from a supportability PoV21:06
eglynn(... said he with his distro hat on)21:06
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dhellmanneglynn: we may have to loosen our restrictions, but I need to keep the 2 from growing too far out of sync21:06
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dhellmannso non-critical fixes may be allowed into the incubator after they land in oslo.messaging as well21:07
eglynndhellmann: understood ... I think the preference all round is for all project to get off olso-rpc ASAP21:07
dragondmbtw: should be ready for review in the next few weeks.21:07
dhellmanneglynn: let me know if this causes issues internally at red hat21:07
eglynndragondm: cool, I'll be interested in reviewing21:07
eglynndhellmann: thanks, will do21:08
dragondmeglynn: noted.21:08
jd__#topic Tempest integration21:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Tempest integration (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:09
jd__nadya_: do you have anything new?21:09
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jd__or anyone? :)21:09
_nadya__I'm here for my part, hi all. Actually no, I don't have much about it. We are continue to work21:09
jd__ok cool :)21:10
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_nadya__we may move on if nobody has any questions21:11
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jd__#topic Release python-ceilometerclient?21:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:11
eglynn1.0.9 is fresh off the presses ...
jd__thanks eglynn21:11
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jd__#topic Complex query expression API design (ildikov)21:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Complex query expression API design (ildikov) (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:12
tongli@jd__, @eglynn, will there be another client release?21:12
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tongliI mean in icehouse.21:12
eglynntongli: sure, it's a very lightweight process21:12
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jd__I replied to that in the review, eglynn did so I saw21:12
ildikovthis topic is about the following bp: #link:
tongli@eglynn, since I am working on a BP which needs changes in the client.21:12
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jd__is there anything else we need to discuss right now ildikov?21:12
eglynntongli: cool, just ping me when you're ready to go with it21:13
ildikovjd__: thanks, we replied to your comment21:13
gordcjd__: i took a screenshot for records as requested. can confirmed you replied.21:13
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tongli@eglynn, thanks21:13
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eglynngordc: lol21:13
ildikovmy question here would be to keep that discussion in gerrit?21:13
dhellmannthe wiki page linked from the ML thread doesn't seem to exist?
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ildikovjd__: it would be good to get it landed as it is up for review for a while now21:14
dhellmannoh, nevermind, that's the mail archive adding a "." to the link21:14
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eglynnso the outstanding issue is whether the new proposed list-based syntax is problematic for jsonschema-based verification?21:14
gibijd__, dhellmann: for me21:14
ildikovdhellmann:yes, it's working without the dot21:15
gibionly the question about the filter syntax remains. I put my view in gerrit as an answer for jd__'s comment21:15
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gordcare we the first project to do this level of querying?21:15
ildikoveglynn: yes, we could not use jsonschema with that design21:15
gordcapologies haven't looked at it...been focused a few other items recently.21:15
ildikovgordc:in OpenStack or in general?21:15
eglynnTBH the dict form, when pretty-printed, does not make my eyes bleed21:16
gordcin openstack i guess... unless you know of any other projects outside which we can reference.21:16
dhellmannwhy do we need jsonschema?21:16
gibidhellmann: jsonschema makes the syntax validation easier, no need to write loops and ifs21:16
gordceglynn: agreed. one of the reasons i haven't really tracked it. it seems really... involved.21:16
jd__ok ildikov I didn't read it yet21:17
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ildikovdhellmann: we use it for validating both the query syntax and the field names21:17
dhellmanngibi: my only concern with that is that we are, as openstack, trying to standardize on the tools we use for web apis21:17
dhellmannand ceilometer set the standard with pecan and wsme21:17
dhellmannso now if we are going to change, we need a better reason than "we don't like to write for loops"21:17
gibidhellmann: unfortunately wsme does not support recursive stuff and jsonschema does support it21:18
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dhellmannI restate my position that the recursive expressions encoded as json are ugly.21:19
dhellmannbut, as I said in the review, I don't have time to write an expression parser to replace it21:19
* jd__ stands with dhellmann on the unified tool side21:19
eglynngibi: in this context, 'recursive' == 'nesting to an arbitrary number of levels' ?21:19
ildikovdhellmann: as gibi mentioned we had some issues with the recursive structures in wsme21:19
gibieglynn: yes21:20
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dragondmI know I had to parse such for the notifications stuff. that's why I used jsonpath.21:20
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dhellmannildikov: if you write an expression parser so the caller can pass a single string expression, you don't need a recursive data structure21:20
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dragondmEr recursive, or abitrary nesting?21:21
gibidhellmann: string expression will contain braces for the same reason21:21
eglynndhellmann: is there any prior art that would address that?21:21
dhellmannI'm talking about the difference between passing ["and", ["=", "a", "b"], [">", "c", "d"]] and: (a = b) and (c > d)21:21
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eglynn(seems a big ask to write an expression parser, given the effort invested so far)21:21
dhellmannthe documentation for PLY and pyparsing are both full of examples21:21
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Alexei_987we could use python itself to parse expressions21:21
Alexei_987doing some kind of eval21:22
dhellmannAlexei_987: eval isn't safe21:22
jd__dhellmann: is rply relevant?21:22
gibidhellmann: I checked pyparsing the results are in the review as comment21:22
dragondmAlexei_987: True, but that could be a security risk.21:22
dhellmannjd__: possibly, I haven't used that one21:22
jd__we use that in Hy21:22
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dhellmannjd__: I'm not sure if we need to be that restrictive21:22
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jd__I can also suggest using Hy if we wanted to Lisp our API a bit21:23
* jd__ *cough cough*21:23
Alexei_987dragondm: we can do it a bit safer by passing an empty env to it and appliying some regex before21:23
* dhellmann is hunting for the link to the review21:23
Alexei_987but it's more like a crazy idea21:23
jd__dhellmann:,n,z ?21:23
dragondmAlexei_987: yah, true, but that's been tried before, and there lies the PHP path of madness....21:24
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eglynnso I'm struggling to understand why ["and", ["=", "a", "b"], [">", "c", "d"]] is so bad given that we already have some hard-to-read WSME queries21:25
dhellmanngibi: your example in looks like it is going in the right direction21:25
eglynnlike q.field=timestamp&q.field=timestamp&q.op=gt&q.op=le&q.value=START&q.start=END21:25
dragondmYup, that^21:25
dragondmWe already do that.21:25
jd__the point that the current syntax is near Mongo's one is a good argument21:26
jd__to me, at least.21:26
jd__(even if I dislike Mongo – see how open minded I can be)21:26
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Alexei_987:) maybe new query API should be discussed in details on the next summit and become a part of V3 API?21:27
ildikovjd__: yes, the only thing is that Mongo does not have "=" so we changed that a bit, but it's really close21:27
eglynnwell I kinda view mongo as our canonical storage driver, so that's a not unsubstantial point21:27
dragondmWhichever we decide, I'm interested in how it works out. I think I will be doing something similar for the event triggers blueprint.21:27
dhellmannI'm not sure why exposing implementation details is a good thing?21:27
jd__dhellmann: it's not, but it's just reassuring somebody designed this the same way21:28
jd__since, well I think Mongo has more users than Ceilometer :)21:28
dragondmI don't think it's implementation details. It's a separate syntax, translated into the db query syntax. It's just usefull if the translation is simple for our most common db driver.21:28
gibijd__, dhellmann Do I feel right that we have an agreement here? :)21:29
eglynndragondm: =121:29
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ildikovdragondm: +121:29
jd__agreement probably not, but a "good enough" from me, likely21:29
Alexei_987I'm going to put a -1 on it cause this syntax is far from user friendly21:29
eglynngood enough for me too TBH21:30
Alexei_987it's going to be quite hard to write it by hand21:30
dragondmAlexei_987: for which? the mongo-ish one or the lists?21:30
Alexei_987the lists21:30
Alexei_987mostly the way how it's passed in request21:30
tongliI think that the proposed solution is to use POST21:30
tongliwhich is not very common.21:31
gibiAlexei_987: we are trying to agree on the mongoish syntax here. Passing the json in a string is not the best thing but wsme limits us there21:31
ildikovAlexei_987:I'm not sure that the rest api is for human to machine interface or not in most of the cases21:31
Alexei_987 ildikov: I agree but I still think that good API should be human readable21:32
ildikovAlexei_987: and maybe if the Mongo syntax is a good enough here, than we could keep it as a first step21:32
Alexei_987I'm ok with mongo syntax itself I don't like the way how it's passed to api21:32
dragondm+1 for the Mongo-like syntax.  As for passing as a string.... Bleh...21:33
Alexei_987cause json sting is not good enough for GET requests as mentioned by tongli:21:33
tongliso something like this?21:34
Alexei_987I would like to see a custom query url something like ?a>b&c<1021:34
tonglifind( { type: 'food', price: { $lt: 9.95 } } )21:34
Alexei_987"type='food'&price<9.95" ?21:34
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gibiAlexei_987: that syntaxt gets complicated with "and" "or" and braces for precendence21:35
ildikovAlexei_987: it also can be a mess if you have also or and not as a supported operator, or in and you have to write lists and brackets21:35
Alexei_987I agree21:35
Alexei_987but proposed syntax will have to be encoded21:36
Alexei_987to pass it via GET21:36
Alexei_987after encoding it's going to look like a complete mess21:36
eglynnIIUC this is POST-only21:36
Alexei_987but query API is GET by design21:37
dragondmBtw: the way tongli phrased it is even cleaner.21:37
jd__passing a body in GET is possible in theory if you want21:37
tongli@dragondm, I thought that is how mongodb specifies conditions.21:37
dragondm(i.e. flipping the dictionary around a bit.21:37
jd__problem solved.21:37
jd__can we move on?21:37
ildikovAlexei_987: the Mongo-like syntax is still seems to be easier to process and transform to the db queries21:37
Alexei_987 ildikov: agree21:37
ildikovtongli:yes, it's the exact Mongo syntax21:38
Alexei_987jd__: +121:38
lsmola+1 for json21:38
dragondmtongli: Yes it is. I was comparing that to the slightly more complex syntax in the review.21:38
gibi in that sense mongo is inconsistent as "and" "or" is prefix op but $lt is infix21:38
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jd__I think we're good on this one guys, I'll move on now21:38
gibiso we made everythin infix21:38
lsmolaildikov, btw. it is also similar to elastic search queries right?21:38
ildikovand also does not have "="21:38
jd__#topic status of Alembic migrations (gordc)21:39
*** openstack changes topic to "status of Alembic migrations (gordc) (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:39
ildikovlsmola: yes, elastic search use json, IIRC21:39
tongli@ildikov, can I propose for simpler ones, still support GET21:39
jd__feel free to continue in #openstack-ceilometer21:39
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jd__gordc: floor is yours21:39
gordcok. so this is just a general question. but currently we have 4 alembic scripts which were written sometime around the 010 migrate script21:39
ildikovjd__:sure, sorry21:39
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gordceverytime we check in a new migrate script we need to check the alembic scripts to make sure they're ok to run after the new script21:39
gordcdoes anyone know what the status is for alembic? is it ready?21:40
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Alexei_987I know21:40
gordcAlexei_987: go for it :)21:40
Alexei_987so the current status is the following:21:40
eglynnwasn't there a proposal a while back to back-port the alembic migrations to sqlalchemy-migrate?21:40
gordci'd like to either drop alembic or switch very soon... it's bothering me.21:40
Alexei_9871) alembic itself is 100% ready for production and we can switch to it at any moment21:41
viktors_Alexei_987: you talking about this?
gordceglynn: yeah, in havana... but that died... i'm bringin it back.21:41
Alexei_987no.. just ceilometer implementation21:41
Alexei_9872) alembic doesn't have a full support for sqlite alter operations21:41
Alexei_987cause of 2* it's not working correctly in tests or requires a lots of hack to make migrations work21:42
dragondmsqlite == boatanchor. :P21:42
jd__I think we should switch but nobody knows what should be done21:42
jd__or wants to do it :)21:42
Alexei_9873) we are working on a plan to avoid using migrations in tests at all21:42
Alexei_987in tests we create an empty DB and we can create it directly from models metadata21:42
gordcAlexei_987: is it any worse than sqlalchemy-migrate? i've tried migrate and some of our downgrade scripts don't work on sqlite... and others just have skip clauses21:42
Alexei_987downgrade is another topic that should be discussed21:43
Alexei_987I think that we should officially stop supporting downgrade for migrations21:43
Alexei_987there is no sense in writing them21:43
Alexei_987for some migrations there is no way to revert DB to previous state21:43
Alexei_987and some use dirty hack like dump_ tables21:44
Alexei_987I don't think that someone would ever use downgrade in production21:44
gordcAlexei_987: yes... not a fan of those dump tables.21:44
Alexei_987back to the main topic:21:44
gordcregardless, Alexei_987you seem to be tracking alembic.21:44
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gordcyou think it's good enough to migrate?21:44
eglynnwhat does migrate mean in this context?21:45
Alexei_987create or update db structure21:45
gordccompared to sqlalchemy-migrate21:45
eglynnall *future* migrations expressed in alembic?21:45
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Alexei_9874) to implement 3* we need to be sure that models metadata creates the same structure as migrations21:46
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dragondmAlexei_987: If a rollout goes bad, and there's no downgrade, that would be a serious issue for any ops/ deploy folks.21:46
Alexei_987which is not true for now21:46
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Alexei_987dragondm: if a devops doesn't have a daily backup there is a serious issue already21:46
gordcyes. all future migrations in alembic... not sure what we do with sqlite.21:47
Alexei_987and our update procedure clearly states of the need of db backup in any case21:47
eglynnwe tried issueing the alembic-only-from-now-on edict before and we had to resile on it21:47
Alexei_987 eglynn: yes cause of sqlite issues21:47
dragondmAlexei_987: if the answer is 'restore from backup'  most devops will reject it.21:47
dragondmThat's loose data.21:47
dragondmer that'd21:47
gordceglynn: should we continue with migrate until we can get mysql/postgresql testing implemented?21:47
gordcsqlal-migrate that is21:47
eglynngordc: that seems wise to me21:47
Alexei_987dragondm: if the answer is "restore from downgrade migration that was not properly tested" it's not good either21:48
Alexei_987 gordc: you are right real backend will help us much21:48
dragondmAlexei_987: yah, it should be tested too :>21:48
gordceglynn: seems like a safer approach... so regarding current alembic scripts21:48
jd__eglynn: I thought so too21:48
Alexei_987 dragondm: as I said some migrations simply cannot be reverted21:49
Alexei_987like change 1-* to *-*21:49
gordcdo we dump them for sql-migrate scripts or do we continue to risk it.... i have a patch to undo them...but if we make no more changes to db, there's no point to undo them.21:49
gordcthem being alembic scripts21:49
dragondmAlexei_987: yah, that's the reason for copying  some data to a temp table. Ugly. But I've seen it needed w/ nova.21:49
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Alexei_987dragondm: but it also means loosing data, no?21:50
* dragondm would much prefer alembic if it's ready. 21:50
Alexei_987cause you cannot fit new data in older structure21:50
jd__could someone write up a plan on what we need to do in a blueprint or the like?21:50
Alexei_987I can do it :)21:51
dragondmAlexei_987: Less than the X hrs between rollout an the last backup.21:51
gordcdragondm: same. but it doens't handle sqlite and mysql/postgresql test implementations aren't ready.21:51
jd__because I think that'd help a lot21:51
jd__it's likely we want to have our integration test running first indeed if we drop sqlite21:51
Alexei_987jd__: I (and my team) can also take part in implementing tests for real backends21:51
jd__Alexei_987: great21:52
jd__go ahead then :)21:52
Alexei_987agreed on this21:52
gordchow's this for a plan. i keep the patch to undo alembic scripts as WIP. we apply it if we ever run into a migration script that affects the existing alembic scripts.21:52
dragondmgordc: Yah, alembic never will handle sqlite, migrate only handles is at all due to hacks.  My vote would be to have a schema dump loaded into sqlite at the beginning of the test.21:52
gordcand then switch to alembic when mysql/postgresql testing implementation is ready?21:52
viktors_dragondm: yes, we are going to do it21:53
Alexei_987dropping sqlite support will also bring additional benefits21:53
dragondmgordc: For the while it could be checked in, and verified by the tests, like the default /etc  conffiles.21:53
Alexei_987we won't have to compact migrations anymore21:53
viktors_gordc: in process now21:53
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dragondmviktors_: Yay. +1e921:53
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dragondmWill also speed up tests abit.21:54
Alexei_987cause for empty DB we'll create it directly from metadata. And for existing DB we only have to support migrations for 2 cycles21:54
Alexei_987so we can simply drop migrations that are more than 2 cycles old21:54
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Alexei_987jd__: so let's make a summary for this?21:55
* gordc trying to read through what's been typed to see if there's a takeaway21:55
jd__Alexei_987: yes, I make you in charge of that ;)21:55
Alexei_9871) I'll create a plan for alembic work21:55
jd__having a blueprint would be good21:55
Alexei_9872) we take part in speeding up impl. of backends tests21:55
Alexei_9873) switch to alembic when it's ready21:56
* jd__ nods21:56
gordc2) is key21:56
Alexei_9871* as a blueprint21:56
Alexei_987for 2* I already have 2 patches in merge stage21:56
Alexei_987and I'm waiting for one of them to merge21:56
Alexei_987for 3 days already :(21:56
jd__which one?21:57
Alexei_987this oslo session fixes21:57
Alexei_987stupid gate bugs make it restart for the 3rd time21:57
Alexei_987ok so to the next topic?21:58
jd__no next21:58
jd__#topic open discussion21:58
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:58
jd__you got one minute21:58
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gordci think my worries about alembic have been tamed... a little bit21:58
jd__considering the silence, I declare the end of this meeting21:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:59
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jan 29 21:59:45 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:59
jd__happy hacking guys!21:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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eglynn'night all!21:59
lsmolathanks guys, have a good night22:00
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ildikovthanks guys, bye22:00
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hub_capH honestly i think that hp/rax can show their public installs as a way to get22:23
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hub_caphehe whoops22:23
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