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| enikanorov | neutron lbaas meeting in 5 minutes | 13:55 |
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| enikanorov | hi | 14:00 |
| enikanorov | #startmeeting neutron lbaas | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 27 14:00:40 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is enikanorov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas' | 14:00 |
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| sbalukoff | Hello! | 14:00 |
| rm_work | hi! | 14:01 |
| crc32 | hello. | 14:01 |
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| obondarev | hi | 14:01 |
| s3wong | Hello | 14:01 |
| blogan | hi | 14:01 |
| iwamoto | hi | 14:01 |
| enikanorov | i guess we're missing some folks who has actively participated in the discussion on ML | 14:01 |
| edhall | hi | 14:02 |
| enikanorov | anyway, we're going to continue the discussion here today and clarify some details on our proposal | 14:02 |
| enikanorov | so far I've seen quite tough discussion on proposal #3 as per this page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/LBaaS/LoadbalancerInstance/Discussion | 14:03 |
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| enikanorov | Picture 4.1 is also a good representation of object model except for cluster and loadbalancer which we would like to discuss separately | 14:03 |
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| iwamoto | I wonder what is the outcome from discussion with Jay Pipes on the ML. | 14:04 |
| enikanorov | iwamoto: i think we're not going towards that direction | 14:04 |
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| sbalukoff | Oh! He and I had a google hangout earlier this week-- | 14:05 |
| sbalukoff | His plan was to flesh out his idea more so we could discuss it. | 14:05 |
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| sbalukoff | I think he's planning on making a blueprint and wants to discuss specific deployment scenarios. | 14:05 |
| enikanorov | the problem is that his proposal is complete redefinition of whole user experience | 14:05 |
| sbalukoff | But I think it's going to take him a week or two to get that far. | 14:05 |
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| rm_work | I liked what he was saying, in a very general sense… I would like to see what he proposes more officially before any kind of decision is made there. | 14:06 |
| enikanorov | and i'm not sure it fits in neutron ideology | 14:06 |
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| sbalukoff | Yes-- and in fact we discussed the point you brought up during that hang out. | 14:06 |
| enikanorov | my concern is that our discussion brings us quite far from incremental model improvement | 14:07 |
| samuelbercovici | hi all | 14:07 |
| enikanorov | hi sam | 14:07 |
| sbalukoff | I suspect in the long run he's going to need a more complicated model to support some of the more complicated deployment scenarios-- though it's not my idea, so I'm not entirely sure. I'd like to give him a chance to flesh out his idea more. | 14:07 |
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| enikanorov | sbalukoff: exactly, andi think it's obvious | 14:07 |
| sbalukoff | enikanorov: I agree. | 14:07 |
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| enikanorov | so lets get back on identifying the drawbacks of proposed model with vips/listeners/pools | 14:08 |
| enikanorov | before we start | 14:08 |
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| sballe | sbalukoff, +1 on letting him flesh out his idea more. | 14:08 |
| enikanorov | i'd like remind the notion of 'root object' that we have right now (which is pool) | 14:08 |
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| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: can you define what is a root object? | 14:09 |
| enikanorov | the sole purpose of the root object is to be able to specify 'configuration unit'. that has nothing to do with backend or provider | 14:09 |
| enikanorov | but it has something to do with the flavor | 14:09 |
| enikanorov | so you create *some* root object with the flavor, which defines capabilities | 14:10 |
| enikanorov | and then you expect that everything connected to that object complies with that capabilities | 14:10 |
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| enikanorov | so once again, it's not any kind of implementation details, it's a user expectation | 14:11 |
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| enikanorov | if you created a service with 'High-end' flavor, you expect every single bit of it to be 'high-end' | 14:11 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: but flavors is an implementation detail | 14:11 |
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| enikanorov | nope, it's essential part of the API | 14:12 |
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| obondarev | sam: how is it impl detail? | 14:12 |
| samuelbercovici | also, i have not seen any deatils about flavors | 14:12 |
| enikanorov | how is that a detail? | 14:12 |
| sbalukoff | I'd also like to see a better definition of what is an 'implementation detail', eh. :) | 14:12 |
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| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: I've sent out an email to ML with draft design | 14:12 |
| sbalukoff | That's true-- flavors are still pretty nebulous at this point. | 14:13 |
| enikanorov | anyway, whatever name you may give to the flavor, it's a representation of user expectation of the service | 14:13 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: well, flavor in the contenx that was discussed was mainly around scheduling based on required features | 14:13 |
| enikanorov | right now we have simplistic 'flavor' which is provider | 14:13 |
| enikanorov | when we move to flavors, provider stays and is assigned during scheduling based on flavor | 14:14 |
| samuelbercovici | so in this sense, flavors/providers should be discussed after we complete a logical model | 14:14 |
| enikanorov | i disagree, it's important part, because they define resource grouping | 14:15 |
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| obondarev | enikanorov: +1 | 14:15 |
| enikanorov | service capabilities is a prt of API, in this or that way | 14:15 |
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| enikanorov | flavor is just a simple representation of group of parameters | 14:15 |
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| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: as fasr as I see, both in radware's case as well as the cirix driver, this is not true | 14:16 |
| iwamoto | I think "resource grouping" is an example of implementation detail | 14:16 |
| enikanorov | what exactly is not true? | 14:16 |
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| enikanorov | iwamoto: i'd say it's an example of user expectation | 14:16 |
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| samuelbercovici | pool is nott the 'root object' if I understand your definition and it does not define the grouping model | 14:16 |
| obondarev | currently it is | 14:17 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: right now it is, we're trying to get rid of that because of inconsistency with L7 requirements | 14:17 |
| enikanorov | ok, anyway | 14:17 |
| enikanorov | i'd like to see how it will work if we don't have the notion of root object | 14:17 |
| enikanorov | do you have an idea? | 14:18 |
| samuelbercovici | yes, but we should agree what is the logical model first | 14:18 |
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| enikanorov | folks, we have certain constraints which are bw compatibility and implementation complexity | 14:19 |
| samuelbercovici | i have added to the wiki a slight modification to the current model that cleans the model from consideration of scheduling and grouping. | 14:19 |
| enikanorov | so befor agreeing on logical model, i'd like to see how it can be implemented | 14:19 |
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| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: are you refering to a google doc file? | 14:20 |
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| samuelbercovici | i would like you all to look at this and tell if this model can represnt the use cases at hand. this logica model is the same as currently exists with removal of a few constarints | 14:20 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: yes | 14:20 |
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| enikanorov | i've read the doc, to mee it seems that it doesn't address the concerns I have | 14:21 |
| crc32 | is there a url for the google doc? | 14:21 |
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| enikanorov | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D-1n8nCEFurYzvEBxIRfXfffnImcIPwWSctAG-NXonY/edit# | 14:21 |
| samuelbercovici | if we agree on this model, we can discuss how to schedule and if/which constarints should be added | 14:21 |
| sbalukoff | samuelbercovici: I'm just seeing this for the first time (Sorry! Haven't had time to catch up on discussion of the last 24 or os hours) | 14:21 |
| sbalukoff | enikanorov: Can you specific a specific concern or two that is not addressed? | 14:22 |
| sbalukoff | er.. sorry, can you mention a specific concern? | 14:22 |
| sbalukoff | (Sorry, it's early here. XD) | 14:22 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: ip address reuse for instance | 14:22 |
| obondarev | samuelbercovici: in your proposed model you removed statistics and statuses from pools and members, do you think user don't need to know all of this? | 14:22 |
| enikanorov | from the workflows specified, i can't see how is that achieved | 14:22 |
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| enikanorov | and yes, I am considering implementation here. once i know how that can be implemented - i can agree or disagree | 14:23 |
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| samuelbercovici | obondarev: They are needed. they might need addressing/modification when we start talking on how this actualy get scheduled | 14:24 |
| samuelbercovici | obondarev: I am trying to seperate concerns. | 14:24 |
| obondarev | if they are needed then your proposed logical model is incomplete | 14:24 |
| enikanorov | ok, may be we can go one step at a time | 14:24 |
| enikanorov | when i do the following: | 14:24 |
| enikanorov | 1) create-vip vip_parameters | 14:25 |
| enikanorov | what is happening as a result? | 14:25 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: ? | 14:25 |
| samuelbercovici | obondarev: correct. as stated. it addresse the concern of configuring the service. scheduling, and getting data back from device should be discussed after | 14:25 |
| enikanorov | (i'm just trying to get together your idea) | 14:25 |
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| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: i am not sure i understadn your question | 14:26 |
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| enikanorov | i'm trying to understand, what happens on the background when user ussies lbaas commands | 14:27 |
| enikanorov | for instance, right now we need to start with pool-create | 14:27 |
| enikanorov | at that point pool is stored in db, it has provider assigned and is scheduled to a agent (if it's haproxy) | 14:27 |
| enikanorov | and when we create vip for the pool, the configuration is actually deployed | 14:27 |
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| enikanorov | so i'm trying to understand how that will work with the API you are proposing | 14:28 |
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| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: I understand that the current ha proxy implementation starts to immediatly schedule on the pool creation. after reviewing all use cases, we might decide that schdeuling this way might not be working well in ha proxy. | 14:29 |
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| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: thats correct, but i'm asking how you see the process, and not how it will work with haproxy provider | 14:30 |
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| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: for example in another strategy is to wait till all the related inforamtion (currently vip + pool) is available before scheduling | 14:30 |
| enikanorov | yes, that is an option | 14:30 |
| enikanorov | so you've got vip+pool and driver has scheduled that to some backend | 14:31 |
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| enikanorov | now you want to add ssl vip or listener to your pool | 14:31 |
| enikanorov | another port, same ip, different protocol | 14:31 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: Thre are alternatives, but I want to fist ground the logical object graph and see that ir can be used to address all type of configuration before we discuss scheduling. | 14:31 |
| enikanorov | how will you do that? | 14:31 |
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| obondarev | we can assume we agreed on the logical model and start discuss further to see what challenges we may face with that model | 14:33 |
| enikanorov | obondarev: on which one? we have two models to discuss | 14:34 |
| samuelbercovici | obondarev: well if you look at the different discussions on ML, this is still not the case. | 14:34 |
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| obondarev | let's start from whatever from this two models, let it be sam's proposal | 14:35 |
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| sbalukoff | Hi Jay! | 14:35 |
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| enikanorov | obondarev: i think we are discussing it already | 14:36 |
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| enikanorov | :) | 14:36 |
| jaypipes | sbalukoff: hello! :) | 14:36 |
| enikanorov | hi Jay | 14:36 |
| jaypipes | enikanorov: morning1 | 14:36 |
| * jaypipes was off yesterday... | 14:36 | |
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| obondarev | enikanorov: yeah, so I just want continue discussing use cases | 14:36 |
| enikanorov | and i'm trying to understand how how that model addresses the scenario i'm talking about | 14:36 |
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| sbalukoff | +1 enikanorov | 14:37 |
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| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: do you mean scheduling? | 14:37 |
| jaypipes | could someone be so kind as to quickly summarize anything I missed? :) | 14:38 |
| samuelbercovici | obondarev: +1 | 14:38 |
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| enikanorov | no, i mean what i need to do to have another vip on the same IP for already existing backend | 14:38 |
| enikanorov | in fact, as a user i don't know anything about the backend | 14:38 |
| enikanorov | i just want another VIP on the same IP and different port | 14:38 |
| sbalukoff | jaypipes: I think there are a lot of people here who would like to see you flesh out your proposal as you and I discussed on the hangout. Otherwise, we've mostly been talking about Sam's proposal that he sent to the mailing list about a day ago. | 14:39 |
| enikanorov | jaypipes: you've missed all and nothing :) we're in the middle | 14:39 |
| obondarev | jaypipes: currently we are discussing sam's proposal on the new object model: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D-1n8nCEFurYzvEBxIRfXfffnImcIPwWSctAG-NXonY/edit# | 14:39 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D-1n8nCEFurYzvEBxIRfXfffnImcIPwWSctAG-NXonY/edit?pli=1#heading=h.3rvy5drl5b5r, see under the use cases, use case 2 | 14:40 |
| jaypipes | hehe | 14:40 |
| jaypipes | OK, let me go read Sam's proposal. | 14:40 |
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| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: right, but that just doesn't dive any details | 14:40 |
| * jaypipes goes and reads all and nothing ;) | 14:40 | |
| enikanorov | you create a brand new vip with some ip address, and what lbaas needs to do? | 14:41 |
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| enikanorov | find exiting vip with the same ip and attach it to same port? why? | 14:41 |
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| enikanorov | what will be the result of call #2? | 14:41 |
| enikanorov | #b i mean | 14:42 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: vip1 and vip2 have the same ip | 14:42 |
| samuelbercovici | rueght? | 14:42 |
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| enikanorov | yes, they should | 14:42 |
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| samuelbercovici | the difference is that they have different tcp ports | 14:42 |
| enikanorov | right | 14:42 |
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| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: so a driver that needs to have both vips on the same backend, can schedule them that way | 14:43 |
| enikanorov | well, here come our sweet impl details | 14:43 |
| enikanorov | which driver? | 14:43 |
| enikanorov | you haven't provided a driver to the call | 14:44 |
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| enikanorov | how would lbaas know your intentions? | 14:44 |
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| enikanorov | you are creating two vips with some parameters where ips aer same accidently | 14:44 |
| sbalukoff | Is there any driver that can put the same IP on two different back-ends and have that actually work? (I'm not aware of any actual implementation that can do this.) | 14:45 |
| enikanorov | sbalukoff: no one interested:) everyone insterested in logical model :P | 14:45 |
| enikanorov | anyway, the problem is fundamental | 14:45 |
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| enikanorov | when you create a vip, at least you expect that DB object will be created | 14:46 |
| blogan | in haproxy's case can't you spin up too haproxy instances both on the same ip but listening on different ports? | 14:46 |
| samuelbercovici | sbalukoff: for eample using SDN, you can route to different back ends based on the ip+port | 14:46 |
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| sbalukoff | blogan: Yes, but that's different than having same IP on two different back-ends. | 14:46 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: which entity will do the routing? | 14:47 |
| blogan | ah i see, two different backends | 14:47 |
| enikanorov | ok, going back to two vips | 14:47 |
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| enikanorov | when you just issue tw create-vip cmds, you get two entries in DB, no deployment yet | 14:47 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: but obvisously this might not be the common case | 14:47 |
| enikanorov | sharing IP address between the vips? | 14:48 |
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| sbalukoff | That's a very common case. | 14:48 |
| enikanorov | it is very common use case i'd say | 14:48 |
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| sbalukoff | HTTP + HTTPS on a single IP is very common, and unavoidable because of the way DNS works. :) | 14:48 |
| samuelbercovici | sbalukoff: i mean havinf same vip with differen ports deployed on different backends | 14:49 |
| enikanorov | ah, that's for sure | 14:49 |
| jaypipes | sbalukoff: ++ | 14:49 |
| sbalukoff | samalba: Yes, indeed. | 14:49 |
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| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: let's go back to two vips case | 14:49 |
| sbalukoff | Er? sorry, meant samuel (stupid auto-complete!) | 14:49 |
| enikanorov | let's say you've created both and get two etries in DB | 14:49 |
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| enikanorov | what should happen next? | 14:49 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: so as an example. if we use existing semantics | 14:51 |
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| samuelbercovici | with the way the tenant specify the "provider" both vips gets sent to the provider. we will probably not allow using different providers. the provider will probably use some logica to scheule both vips on the saem backend | 14:54 |
| samuelbercovici | alternatively | 14:54 |
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| enikanorov | well, you see, you have to use that 'impl detail' such as provider | 14:54 |
| enikanorov | and with flavors that will not be possible | 14:54 |
| enikanorov | because flavor doesn't control provider directly | 14:55 |
| sbalukoff | So, one of the problems I see with a purely logical discussion is that sometimes it might dictate an implementation that is not physically possible using any existing implementation technology. So? in proposing different logical models, I would like to see specific use cases fleshed out with at least one suggestion that drivers might use to do actual implementation (this is so that we keep our logical models within th | 14:55 |
| sbalukoff | e realm of physical possibility for forseeable use cases). | 14:55 |
| sbalukoff | (I mention this as we're running out of time in this meeting.) | 14:55 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: as i said, this will be addressed. i want to see that even before we solve it, the model can support all the use cases people wanted | 14:55 |
| sbalukoff | (And again, I'd love to see these idea proposals fleshed out. Both Samuel's and Jay's.) | 14:55 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: well, as far as I see the API, there is a case that people want, but it can't be implemented | 14:56 |
| enikanorov | that's the fundamental problem | 14:56 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: ok. next step for me is to porpose how the scheduling happens | 14:56 |
| rm_work | +1 would like to see jaypipes proposal | 14:57 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: exactly! | 14:57 |
| samuelbercovici | enikanorov: will do this next and will send next week | 14:57 |
| enikanorov | samuelbercovici: my guess that you'll end up with something very similar to #2 or #3 | 14:57 |
| enikanorov | sure, thanks | 14:57 |
| edhall | Why would implementation drive the logical model? Just because its possible to express something that can't currently be implemented doesn't mean that the model is bad... | 14:57 |
| sbalukoff | edhall: I think we need to operate within the realm of the physically possible. | 14:58 |
| samuelbercovici | meanwhile, I would appreciate if people will address the proposed logical model and commend on the document if something is missing | 14:58 |
| enikanorov | edhall: what the point in the model if it cant be implemented? | 14:58 |
| sbalukoff | That doesn't mean we can't invent new technology here. | 14:58 |
| jaypipes | samuelbercovici: one thing I'd like to see in that Google doc is a more user-focused definition of the use cases. For example, "Single Vip with L4 load balancing" in my mind, is not a user-focused use case. It's an implementor-focused use case. Id love to see that expanded to be a description of the way a user thinks about things (i.e. Alice has a monolithic web application running on 1 node using X web server/platform. Sh | 14:58 |
| jaypipes | e wants to add mulitple identical instances to increase scalabiity. She will need to redirect her single floating IP address to a load balancer, which should spread load across all her new instances in a balanced fashion, etc" | 14:58 |
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| edhall | There is no reason that an API can't respond "sorry I can't do that." | 14:59 |
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| sbalukoff | But any new technology also needs to be physically possible. | 14:59 |
| jaypipes | edhall: ++ | 14:59 |
| enikanorov | edhall: right. that a subtle limitation | 14:59 |
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| samuelbercovici | jaypipes: i would like to take it offline with you to understand this | 14:59 |
| enikanorov | i'm not sure it's better that clenr API | 14:59 |
| enikanorov | *clean | 14:59 |
| jaypipes | samuelbercovici: absolutely! | 14:59 |
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| jaypipes | samuelbercovici: we can do so in #openstack-neutron after the meeting. | 15:00 |
| enikanorov | ok, thanks everyone for the discussion | 15:00 |
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| enikanorov | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "storage backends (Meeting topic: swift)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 27 15:00:42 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-02-27-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-02-27-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-02-27-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| ttx | Anyone here for the StoryBoard meeting ? | 16:00 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | I'm here | 16:00 |
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| krotscheck | I'm not here! | 16:01 |
| * krotscheck may be lying | 16:01 | |
| ttx | cody-somerville: around ? | 16:01 |
| ttx | OK, I guess I'll run this one | 16:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting storyboard | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 27 16:02:16 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 16:02 |
| ttx | Agenda at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard -- still time to add stuff to it | 16:02 |
| ttx | #topic MVP status | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP status (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:02 | |
| ttx | krotscheck: how far are we ? | 16:03 |
| krotscheck | Non auth MVP seems to have landed. Auth is still outstanding. | 16:03 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I've got a bunch of comments from krotscheck | 16:03 |
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| ttx | once both land, MVP is complete on the webclient side ? | 16:03 |
| krotscheck | ttx: I believe so. | 16:03 |
| ttx | what about the missing stuff on the server side ? | 16:04 |
| krotscheck | ttx: I need to doublecheck, but I think at this point we should be able to start making stories. | 16:04 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | the code is there, but I was calling the redirects in the wrong order | 16:04 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | now I'm working to update the change to align it krotscheck's comments | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Looks like we can file stories | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | http://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2/overview | 16:05 |
| ttx | So that's on the Auth side. Anything else missing in the server part for MVP ? | 16:05 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | seems like no | 16:06 |
| krotscheck | No. | 16:06 |
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| ttx | NikitaKonovalov: I was a bit surprised by the amount of code you had to write on the srverside part of Auth. The code that makes you build URL by hand looks scary | 16:06 |
| ttx | (wearing my security reviewer hat) | 16:07 |
| ttx | NikitaKonovalov: is that expected ? Couldn't we reuse more of library code ? | 16:07 |
| NikitaKonovalov | there might be a better way to utilize urrlib | 16:07 |
| ttx | NikitaKonovalov: not really blocking on that | 16:08 |
| ttx | I was just... surprised that you couldn't implement Auth in 3 lines of code. Django spoiled me I guess | 16:08 |
| ttx | NikitaKonovalov: if it works and interacts with Michael's stuff, should be good | 16:09 |
| NikitaKonovalov | at some point I was thinking of bringing django plugin back :) | 16:09 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | the amount of code is huge, because Oauth does not quite fit the open-id-connect protocol | 16:09 |
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| ttx | krotscheck, NikitaKonovalov: from what you're both telling me, looks like we would reach MVP state by end of this week | 16:10 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | hopefully | 16:10 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Ambitious, but possible. | 16:10 |
| ttx | #info MVP status may be reached by end of week | 16:10 |
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| ttx | OK, anything more on that topic ? | 16:10 |
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| ruhe | any future MVP customers here? | 16:11 |
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| gothicmindfood | meeeeee | 16:11 |
| ruhe | would be nice to get some feedback from them | 16:11 |
| * ttx plans to get more familiar with the code and start helping, but it's still a bit too much of a movig target to me | 16:11 | |
| * gothicmindfood raises hand | 16:11 | |
| ttx | quickly stabilizing though | 16:11 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: go for it | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | Actually, the trove team came to me yesterday and asked whether they can start putting an incubation project on storyboard just to see what it's like. | 16:12 |
| gothicmindfood | krotscheck: wow, that's cool! | 16:12 |
| ttx | argh. | 16:12 |
| gothicmindfood | I really want to throw our MVP internally at HP people and make them use it. | 16:12 |
| ttx | seriously, it's missing like 99% of the features that will make it usable | 16:12 |
| * gothicmindfood may be in too many meetings with PMs arguing abou tools this week | 16:12 | |
| krotscheck | gothicmindfood: You're back from tour? | 16:12 |
| gothicmindfood | krotscheck: I'm still out | 16:12 |
| ttx | I really fear that initial rejection will cost us down the line | 16:13 |
| gothicmindfood | (NYC tonight, DC tomorrow, Chicago Tuesday, then done) | 16:13 |
| gothicmindfood | ttx: understood, and agreed | 16:13 |
| gothicmindfood | ttx: my fantasy with HP is purely fantasy. Would never actually do that. | 16:13 |
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| ttx | gothicmindfood: more comments on that topic ? | 16:13 |
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| gothicmindfood | ttx: I think everyone's psyched about getting to MVP and will remain so until the first group of devs get pissed about having to use it :) | 16:14 |
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| ttx | that brings us squarely to: | 16:14 |
| ttx | #topic What to use to plan the next step | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "What to use to plan the next step (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:14 | |
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| gothicmindfood | ttx: this is the nature of having a new product that everyone will eventaully be forced to use. | 16:14 |
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| krotscheck | Oh, I think the next step is pretty clear. MVP didn't include the creation of tasks. | 16:15 |
| ttx | I have a number of ideas for the next step, but not sure what is the best tool to organize it | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | And, well, that's a pretty big hole in our UI right now. | 16:15 |
| ttx | steps* | 16:15 |
| ttx | krotscheck: heh | 16:15 |
| ruhe | krotscheck: it's possible to create tasks on the API side though | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | ruhe: It is? | 16:15 |
| ruhe | krotscheck: yes it is :) | 16:15 |
| krotscheck | Oh, neat. That solves that then. | 16:15 |
| ttx | my question is, we have a backlog of features and need to organize them, order them | 16:16 |
| gothicmindfood | krotscheck just needs to make a pretty button, I guess. :) | 16:16 |
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| ttx | since we are far away from being able to use storyboard for planning work... | 16:16 |
| ttx | should we use some trello thing ? | 16:16 |
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| ttx | I could use some familiarity with it, as I brainstorm over tasklists | 16:16 |
| ttx | should we continue to abuse a wiki ? | 16:17 |
| ruhe | i'd prefer to use storyboard, even if it has 1% of required features | 16:17 |
| krotscheck | I agree with ruhe. | 16:17 |
| gothicmindfood | I also like the idea of using storyboard | 16:17 |
| gothicmindfood | as clunky as it will be. | 16:17 |
| krotscheck | Easier to point and say: ugh this sucks fix it. | 16:17 |
| ttx | ruhe: it's really missing the story/task ordering/targeting aspect though | 16:17 |
| ttx | and it's a bit tricky to prioritize up | 16:17 |
| ttx | as the tasklist thing is still very much only clear in my brain when I'm drunk | 16:18 |
| ruhe | ttx: can we workaround it by appending some priority information to story/task title? | 16:18 |
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| ttx | so to use storyboard for milestone planning, we'd add something we'd remove afterwards, I don't really like that | 16:18 |
| ttx | Ah. Abusing title | 16:18 |
| ttx | I guess that's an option | 16:19 |
| ruhe | i mean - append title manually | 16:19 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, so the ask is "We want to be able to prioritize stories", yes? | 16:19 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: I guess alpha order and playing with titles should be enough for that | 16:19 |
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| ttx | ok, dogfooding ftw | 16:20 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: I dislike workarounds. | 16:20 |
| ttx | should be fun | 16:20 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: the trick is: prioritization, the way we now plan to do it, is a rather higher-level construct | 16:21 |
| ruhe | and simple ordering should be a matter of a couple of lines on the API side | 16:21 |
| ttx | at least titles and alpha-ordering don't mean we put in a workaround that we'll remove | 16:22 |
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| ttx | Any objection to storyboard dogfooding storyboard past-MVP ? | 16:22 |
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| ttx | I hope we have backups | 16:23 |
| krotscheck | I don't hear any objections | 16:23 |
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| ttx | awesome. Anyone has a topic to discuss, before I waste everyone's remaining meeting time in weird design discussions ? | 16:24 |
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| ttx | I hear none | 16:24 |
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| ttx | #topic Sane design | 16:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Sane design (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:24 | |
| * gothicmindfood is so excited for weird design discussion | 16:24 | |
| ttx | So that one is mostly sane | 16:25 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Task_Branch | 16:25 |
| ttx | There aren't so many ways to do it | 16:25 |
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| ttx | There are only two subtleties | 16:26 |
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| ttx | When do we set "release" ? | 16:26 |
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| ttx | And how do we build final release pages ? | 16:27 |
| ttx | But both can be handled at a later time | 16:27 |
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| ttx | For the first question I'd rather set release at change landing time. But in some cases you really don't know what the "next" milestone will be | 16:28 |
| ttx | So collecting them when you tag might actually make more sense | 16:28 |
| krotscheck | I need someone to mansplain the differences between all the different openstack branches vis-a-vis releases to me. | 16:28 |
| ttx | krotscheck: I'm your man | 16:28 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: Awesome. How late are you going to be up? I still have to get to the office. | 16:28 |
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| ttx | Maybe we can go through it now | 16:29 |
| * gothicmindfood would love to be in on that conversation as a refresher. | 16:29 | |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/BranchModel | 16:29 |
| ttx | has some of it | 16:29 |
| ttx | We develop on a master branch | 16:29 |
| ttx | Around milestones, and during the RC period, we create a milestone-proposed branch, where only milestone-critical or release-critical fixes land | 16:30 |
| ttx | master continues unrestricted | 16:30 |
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| krotscheck | Hrm. | 16:30 |
| ttx | At final release time, we turn that milestone-proposed branch into a stable/* branch | 16:30 |
| ttx | So by default everything lands in master | 16:31 |
| krotscheck | ok, that makes sense. | 16:31 |
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| ttx | But you may backport STUFF to milestone-propsoed or one of the stable/* branches | 16:31 |
| krotscheck | So, it feels to me that "branch" really belongs to a task, while release applies to a story. | 16:31 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: branch belongs to task yes | 16:32 |
| ttx | krotscheck: In an ideal workd, "release" would apply to story | 16:32 |
| ttx | but in reality, no | 16:32 |
| ttx | for two reasons | 16:32 |
| krotscheck | Though I suspect we might not need the "release" field because ultimately that can be derived by figuring out where various patches have landed. | 16:32 |
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| ttx | Imagine a security issue | 16:32 |
| ttx | You fix it in master and in supported stable branches | 16:33 |
| ttx | the master task will be "released" in 2014.1 (icehouse) | 16:33 |
| ttx | the stable/havana task will be release in some 2013.2.3 or something | 16:33 |
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| krotscheck | Right - so branch is a tuple, not a single property | 16:33 |
| ttx | the release field is there to track where the fix was first published | 16:33 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: not sure I follow | 16:34 |
| ttx | tasks affecting multiple branches would be.. separate tasks | 16:34 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: Why? Can't a task include releasing code to multiple branches? | 16:35 |
| ttx | probably assigned to different people, resulting in different changes being proposed in gerrit, etc | 16:35 |
| ttx | krotscheck: I don't think it's worth the added indirection | 16:35 |
| ttx | the story is the task group level | 16:35 |
| ttx | you fix the story in multiple projects and multiple branches | 16:35 |
| ttx | simpler to just have them as a one level list of tasks | 16:36 |
| ttx | LP does what you imply | 16:36 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: Well, tell ya what. We have an immediate path forward on branches, since we know what that's going to look like (one branch per task). Once that goes in, we can see how we end up using it and where release falls into the whole application. | 16:36 |
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| ttx | example: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ossa/+bug/1260080 | 16:36 |
| ttx | There are three keystone tasks and one OSSA task there | 16:37 |
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| ttx | It would be simpler if it showed 4 tasks that you can reorder | 16:37 |
| ttx | keystone/master, keystone/havana, keystone/grizzly and ossa/null | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | So let's start with branches. | 16:38 |
| ttx | anyway, impl detail | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | point | 16:38 |
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| krotscheck | Alright, def something to noodle over. | 16:39 |
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| ttx | So that was the less insane one | 16:39 |
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| ttx | because we know we'll want branch and release at task level anyway | 16:39 |
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| ruhe | question: is branch model - the next big thing we need to implement in storyboard? | 16:40 |
| ttx | ruhe: not necessarily, since we don't need it for storyboard dogfooding | 16:40 |
| ttx | as we only have master ;) | 16:40 |
| ttx | those are just open design questions I go over | 16:40 |
| * krotscheck personally feels that priority's the next big thing :) | 16:40 | |
| ttx | hah! nice segway to next topic | 16:41 |
| ttx | #topic Crazy design | 16:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Crazy design (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:41 | |
| ttx | Priorities are for the weak, let's use parallel tasklists for that: StoryBoard/Task_Lists | 16:41 |
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| ttx | So this is the straw man resulting from some brainstorming with various people | 16:41 |
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| ttx | basically playing with concepts of subscription, milestoen targeting, priority... | 16:42 |
| ttx | and realizing those are all facets of being able to put a number of stories or tasks in random lists | 16:42 |
| ttx | ordered lists | 16:42 |
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| ttx | so why not oh why not just scrap all those concepts and replacing it with crazy task lists that would look like Kanban boards | 16:43 |
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| gothicmindfood | I concur with the random thought re: story ordering vs task ordering | 16:43 |
| * gothicmindfood loves this idea and thinks it's the coolest | 16:43 | |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: yes, the more I think about it the more I think we need to manipulate stories | 16:43 |
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| gothicmindfood | ttx: also, because task ordering might have a lot less to do with priority and more to do with dependencies | 16:44 |
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| gothicmindfood | (which aren't really the same thing, though they often are close to it) | 16:44 |
| ttx | anyway, the main drawback of this appraoch is that it will take time to get right | 16:44 |
| NikitaKonovalov | and I guess we will need two type of story lists: official and personal | 16:45 |
| ttx | and so you can't really USE priorities in the mean time | 16:45 |
| ttx | NikitaKonovalov: yes, that's baked in | 16:45 |
| gothicmindfood | official project, personal view, and release view. | 16:45 |
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| ttx | gothicmindfood: got some people asking for projectgroup views as well | 16:45 |
| krotscheck | That kindof feels like the leveling system in FFX... | 16:45 |
| ttx | krotscheck: EMISSINGCONTEXT | 16:45 |
| gothicmindfood | ttx: so infra-group view, for example? | 16:46 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: yes. or oslo | 16:46 |
| ttx | there are a few programs wiuth a LOT of projects where the projectgroup will be the main thing they manipulate | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | Final Fantasy X. To paraphrase, there's a bunch of stories. All of these stories need to go into the release, and stories are interdependent. Developers start on different parts of the dependency tree, and try to collapse the tree by the time the release goes out. | 16:47 |
| ttx | and they want to prioritize across all those projects, not a project-level | 16:47 |
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| gothicmindfood | ttx: makes sense. | 16:47 |
| * krotscheck folds up his nerd flag again | 16:47 | |
| ttx | hah | 16:47 |
| ttx | Anyway, I just want to push that idea in some corner of your minds so that you think a bit about it. | 16:48 |
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| ttx | No need to get to the bottom of it today | 16:48 |
| gothicmindfood | I think lists and labels are the way to go | 16:48 |
| krotscheck | I think the tricky bit there is how to model it so that the API is performant. | 16:48 |
| ttx | that brings us to our next topic | 16:48 |
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| gothicmindfood | and make storyboard much more powerful as a universal tool, coincidentally. | 16:48 |
| ttx | Statuses are for the weak, let's use tags for that: StoryBoard/Story_Tags | 16:48 |
| ttx | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard/Story_Tags | 16:48 |
| ttx | so we all know we'll have tags | 16:49 |
| ttx | But but but will we have statuses ? | 16:49 |
| ttx | Or can we just discourage status use (manual updates suck anyway) and abuse tags for corner cases | 16:49 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: found a loophole on this one though | 16:50 |
| ttx | "If tags are applied to stories, who can set protected tags on a multi-project story ? Drivers are attached to projects ! " | 16:50 |
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| gothicmindfood | yeah | 16:50 |
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| gothicmindfood | anyone who is part of a project tagged in a task affiliated with the story? | 16:51 |
| gothicmindfood | or a PTL of that project? | 16:51 |
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| ttx | I guess so | 16:51 |
| ttx | since we don't let anyone add a project, that might work | 16:51 |
| gothicmindfood | I mean, the task to story relationship is established. | 16:52 |
| gothicmindfood | what about where a task hasn't been assigned a project | 16:52 |
| gothicmindfood | ? | 16:52 |
| ttx | gothicmindfood: I don't think we have such case | 16:52 |
| ttx | tasks are always attached to a project | 16:52 |
| ttx | You mean a story without tasks ? | 16:53 |
| gothicmindfood | I thought a story would always have at least one (auto created) task | 16:53 |
| ttx | then problem solved :) | 16:53 |
| gothicmindfood | and if someone created a story with no knowledge of the system, it might not have a project affiliated with it | 16:53 |
| gothicmindfood | (with its task, I mean) | 16:53 |
| ttx | But even in the case of stories without tasks, then you would probably NOT set any protected tags | 16:54 |
| ttx | not before you start fractioning the story into specific project tasks | 16:54 |
| ttx | The main issue here is... do we really want to abandon workflows in storyboard | 16:55 |
| gothicmindfood | yeah. So I think just mandating at least one task affiliatd with one project before tags are possible at the story level | 16:55 |
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| gothicmindfood | ttx: how does this abandon workflows? | 16:55 |
| ttx | i.e. the bug confirmation workflow | 16:56 |
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| gothicmindfood | ah | 16:56 |
| ttx | or the feature "approval" workflow | 16:56 |
| ttx | that need multiple states | 16:56 |
| ttx | like https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/File:Glance_Blueprint_Process.svg | 16:56 |
| gothicmindfood | well. how much does the community adhere to those workflows, and how strict are they? | 16:56 |
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| ttx | I'd argue that they are a lot of pain for no gain | 16:57 |
| ttx | and I'm a process wonk | 16:57 |
| ttx | I may hate the result | 16:57 |
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| ttx | But thing is.. we spend a lot of time pushing bugs and blueprints through a workflow | 16:58 |
| ilyashak_ | i recall there was an idea to create special task 'verify me' or 'fix me; and determine state by these tasks | 16:58 |
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| ttx | and in the end... I'm not sure that helps | 16:58 |
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| ttx | I want the tool to morph to what we do, rather than force people to go through its way of thinking | 16:59 |
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| krotscheck | Well, if we're going to have tags on everything, why not just make tags everything? Branches, statuses.... | 16:59 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: because tags are story-level. And branch/release are tasklevel | 16:59 |
| ttx | anyway, time is up | 17:00 |
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| ttx | Thansk everyone | 17:00 |
| gothicmindfood | thanks ttx! | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | Where a tag can be applied is secondary to using tags to indicate relevance of a task or story. | 17:00 |
| ttx | for listening to my rants | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | cheers! | 17:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "storage backends (Meeting topic: swift)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 27 17:00:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-02-27-16.02.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-02-27-16.02.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-02-27-16.02.log.html | 17:00 |
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| mtreinish | #startmeeting qa | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 27 17:01:01 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | hi who do we have today? | 17:01 |
| mtreinish | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting | 17:01 |
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| mtreinish | ^^^ Today's agenda (looks like the standard boiler plate) | 17:01 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: Here | 17:01 |
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| andreaf | hi | 17:01 |
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| jaypipes | o/ | 17:02 |
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| mtreinish | sdague, mkoderer, afazekas: are you guys around today? | 17:02 |
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| sdague | yes | 17:02 |
| mtreinish | ok well let's get started | 17:03 |
| afazekas | yes | 17:03 |
| psedlak | hi | 17:03 |
| mtreinish | #topic Blueprints | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:03 | |
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| mtreinish | so does anyone have any blueprints they would like to give a status update on | 17:03 |
| mtreinish | or any new bp proposals to discuss? | 17:03 |
| andreaf | mtreinish: ok I'll go first | 17:03 |
| sdague | we should go through everything in high | 17:04 |
| sdague | andreaf: go for it | 17:04 |
| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/multi-keystone-api-version-tests | 17:04 |
| sdague | and more importantly #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/ | 17:04 |
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| andreaf_ | I'm back | 17:06 |
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| afazekas | ''<andreaf> mtreinish: ok I'll go first | 17:06 |
| afazekas | '<sdague> andreaf: go for it' | 17:06 |
| andreaf_ | mtreinish: I was saying the next step for that bp is available for review #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74387/ | 17:06 |
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| mtreinish | andreaf_: ok, so after that the next step is to convert cred usage to the new object | 17:07 |
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| mtreinish | where do you go from there? | 17:07 |
| andreaf_ | mtreinish: so it's progressing ok but slowly it's a lot of small pieces so reviews would be very welcome | 17:07 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: support for v3 for official client and scenario tests | 17:08 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: support for v3 api (not token, also user create) in tenant isolation | 17:08 |
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| mtreinish | andreaf_: heh, well client support might take some time | 17:08 |
| andreaf_ | mtreinish: support for v3 in stress, cli, third party | 17:08 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: it's possible to create several of the clients using token and baseurl | 17:09 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: a colleague of mine just got merged a change in novaclient for ostoken | 17:09 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: so hopefully it's not too bad - in the meantime I can also work on the other bits | 17:10 |
| mtreinish | andreaf_: ok, cool | 17:10 |
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| mtreinish | andreaf_: is there anything else for multi-auth? | 17:10 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: another things which I wanted to do actually is complete refactor of manager class - to provide lazy load of clients | 17:10 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: not striclty needed for this bp but useful to simplify a few things | 17:11 |
| andreaf_ | mtreinish: that's all | 17:11 |
| afazekas | it would make things 20ns faster :) | 17:11 |
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| mtreinish | andreaf_: ok that sounds like an interesting idea, so that way we wouldn't be doing the initial handshake on imports anymore right? | 17:12 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: right | 17:12 |
| mtreinish | well I definitely support that :) | 17:12 |
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| mtreinish | ok lets move onto another high prio bp | 17:12 |
| mtreinish | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/unit-tests | 17:12 |
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| mtreinish | so this one is owned by me | 17:13 |
| sdague | how's it looking for i3? | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | from last week we've had a few more unit test patches mostly related to auth stuff | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | I need to make a push to get some more coverage for some of the common functionality | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | but we've been making progress | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | sdague: it might be close | 17:13 |
| mtreinish | but we should have good coverage for the release | 17:14 |
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| sdague | ok, great | 17:14 |
| mtreinish | I also added the coverage job to the post runs for the tempest queue | 17:14 |
| sdague | very good | 17:14 |
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| mtreinish | I also want to discuss making a project policy change about requiring unit tests for new functionality | 17:14 |
| mtreinish | but that may be a summit discussion | 17:14 |
| andreaf_ | mtreinish: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74387/ which I mentioned before also include unit tests for the new credentials class | 17:14 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: +1 it's really useful | 17:15 |
| sdague | agreed | 17:15 |
| sdague | it's a nice new culture in the codebase | 17:15 |
| afazekas | most of tempest code is tested on the gate , at least the success code path anyway, we might need to focus on the fail path in unit tests | 17:15 |
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| sdague | ok, moving on: #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/negative-tests | 17:15 |
| sdague | dkranz: comments on that? | 17:16 |
| sdague | also afazekas #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/stop-leaking | 17:16 |
| dkranz | I am still trying to get time to push another example for a different service. | 17:16 |
| sdague | that's been listed as high for a long time | 17:16 |
| dkranz | sdague: It would be nice to get https://review.openstack.org/#/c/73982/ approved. | 17:16 |
| sdague | we should decided if it's dead, or when it's going to get done | 17:16 |
| dkranz | sdague: After that is approved I was going to send a message to the list inviting people to contribute negative auto-gen tests. | 17:17 |
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| sdague | dkranz: can you update the status on the blueprint to something other than none? | 17:17 |
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| dkranz | sdague: Yes, didn't realize it was still there | 17:17 |
| sdague | dkranz: ok, I'll review that by the end of the week. | 17:17 |
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| afazekas | sdague: Since the first global leak think is not liked, I am planning to do leak detection (and also cleanup) stuff at the isolated tenant deletion | 17:17 |
| dkranz | sdague: I'm not sure how to say when this blueprint is "done". All the infrastructure is there. | 17:18 |
| dkranz | sdague: It's now a matter of converting existing negative tests | 17:18 |
| sdague | dkranz: I'd say then break it up | 17:18 |
| sdague | blueprint for infrastructure | 17:18 |
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| sdague | which we can declare done | 17:18 |
| sdague | then blueprint for some set of test conversion (or a bug) | 17:18 |
| mtreinish | sdague: or a spreadsheet... | 17:19 |
| psedlak | dkranz: but there is already another bp mentioned for that "moving the current negative tests into separate files: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/negative-test-files" | 17:19 |
| sdague | afazekas: ok, is that something that's currently in progress | 17:19 |
| dkranz | sdague: ok, I'll close the current as infrastructure and create another one | 17:19 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: what about if isolation is disabled? | 17:19 |
| sdague | mtreinish: or spreadsheet | 17:19 |
| psedlak | dkranz: oh sorry, ignore me | 17:19 |
| dkranz | psedlak: That is a slightly different thing | 17:19 |
| dkranz | psedlak: Mostly done I think | 17:19 |
| sdague | mtreinish: well, at least in tenant isolation we should be able to easily leak detect on tenant cleanup | 17:19 |
| sdague | and fix it in the main code | 17:20 |
| afazekas | sdague: recently I analyses some flaky things, but I hope I will have time on working on that soon | 17:20 |
| sdague | we shouldn't clean up in tenant cleanup, just use it as a detector | 17:20 |
| sdague | afazekas: ok, well we need timeline commitments if it's going to be high, otherwise I'll bump it down and push to juno | 17:20 |
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| sdague | which is basically the question | 17:20 |
| afazekas | sdague: I think on next week I will check some flaky stuff too, but after that I will have time | 17:21 |
| psedlak | sdague: what about the cleanup in isolation code being optional? (to keep the possibility of getting clean env after tempest) | 17:21 |
| sdague | psedlak: no, I want to just detect, then go fix the tests | 17:22 |
| sdague | otherwise we fail on the non isolated case | 17:22 |
| mtreinish | psedlak: the credentials and tenants created for isolation will still be removed | 17:22 |
| afazekas | sdague: just for detecting my first thing was good enough.. | 17:22 |
| psedlak | sdague: sure, but why not to have at least capability to clean in there? | 17:22 |
| psedlak | mtreinish: but not the leaked servers etc ... | 17:22 |
| mtreinish | psedlak: then that's a real bug that needs to be fixed | 17:23 |
| sdague | psedlak: because people will stop trying to fix the real leaks | 17:23 |
| sdague | this is social engineering as much as anything else | 17:23 |
| psedlak | ok | 17:23 |
| mtreinish | ok what else is on the high list? | 17:23 |
| sdague | ok, I bumped to low and removed the target. Once it's a high focus again we can bump it up | 17:23 |
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| sdague | neutron-full and heat | 17:24 |
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| sdague | and nova v3 | 17:24 |
| mtreinish | oh oops I forgot to add the heat topic this week | 17:24 |
| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/nova-v3-api-tests | 17:24 |
| mtreinish | well it's a bit late for cyeoh right now | 17:24 |
| sdague | I just removed the target, I think all the nova api discussion means we have to figure out the outcome there | 17:24 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah I agree | 17:24 |
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| sdague | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/fix-gate-tempest-devstack-vm-quantum-full | 17:25 |
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| sdague | rossella_s: you around? | 17:25 |
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| sdague | I should probably change the blueprint name there :) | 17:25 |
| mtreinish | heh | 17:25 |
| sdague | or stevebaker on heat - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/tempest-heat-integration | 17:25 |
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| sdague | I guess not | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | sdague: well I think we should just move on maybe ask about those 2 on the ML | 17:27 |
| sdague | or we are netsplit | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | sdague: I don't think so | 17:27 |
| sdague | yeh, you want to take that? or should I | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | sdague: it seems more PTL like :) | 17:27 |
| sdague | #action sdague to ask about current high priority blueprints on list | 17:27 |
| mtreinish | ok lets move on to the next topic | 17:28 |
| mtreinish | #topic Neutron testing | 17:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:28 | |
| mtreinish | so I don't see mlavalle on right now | 17:28 |
| mtreinish | salv-orlando: are you around? | 17:28 |
| afazekas | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/66375/ | 17:28 |
| salv-orlando | yeah I am | 17:28 |
| mtreinish | sdague: we have a non-voting full parallel job now right? | 17:28 |
| mtreinish | salv-orlando: anything to share about neutron testing? | 17:29 |
| afazekas | The above change can fix one of the most frequent ovs agent issue | 17:29 |
| salv-orlando | I think there are a bunch of patches for neutron API testing under review | 17:29 |
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| salv-orlando | and we have assignees working on the most pressing issues to get the full tempest job work in a way such that we can make it voting | 17:29 |
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| salv-orlando | There are also a bunch of patches from yfried for scenario testing. | 17:30 |
| salv-orlando | I am struggling to find time to give them a proper review however. | 17:30 |
| mtreinish | salv-orlando: ok cool | 17:30 |
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| mtreinish | salv-orlando: yeah I've been a bit lax with reviews myself lately | 17:30 |
| sdague | yes | 17:30 |
| salv-orlando | that's all from neutron | 17:30 |
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| mtreinish | salv-orlando: awesome, thanks | 17:31 |
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| mtreinish | ok then I guess let's move on to the next topic | 17:31 |
| mtreinish | #topic Bugs | 17:31 |
| sdague | salv-orlando: nice work. | 17:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:31 | |
| mtreinish | so I haven't had a chance to look at the bug list since last week | 17:31 |
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| mtreinish | I definitely think we're going to need to do another bug day before release | 17:32 |
| mtreinish | does anyone want to volunteer to take the lead on it? | 17:32 |
| sdague | yeh, I'd wait until post i3 | 17:32 |
| afazekas | salv-orlando: What do you think, is it help full in debuging neutron issues on the gate https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76643/ | 17:32 |
| sdague | anyone volunteering for organizing one? | 17:32 |
| sdague | crickets :) | 17:33 |
| sdague | ok, mtreinish want to stick find volunteer for bug day on next agenda? | 17:33 |
| mtreinish | sdague: sure will do | 17:33 |
| salv-orlando | afazekas: all these information *might* be helpful even if I've personally not used anything from ip_log_ns in the past month, ovs_db info are definitely more useful | 17:33 |
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| mtreinish | ok time for the last topic on the agenda | 17:33 |
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| mtreinish | #topic Critical Reviews | 17:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:34 | |
| mtreinish | does anyone have any reviews that they would like to bring up to get some eyes on? | 17:34 |
| sdague | I have one which goes into the land of open discussion, not quite critical | 17:34 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: I added one more topic "What is our strategy for getting fail on log errors turned back on?" | 17:35 |
| sdague | I resurected the parallel filter - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76674/ | 17:35 |
| afazekas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75411/ small change against az flaky | 17:35 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: I see that now, did you just add it? | 17:35 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah I'm planning to take a look at that today | 17:35 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: Right at the start of the meeting | 17:35 |
| psedlak | as salv-orlando mentioned the yfried's chain ... | 17:35 |
| sdague | curious on output comments, I could also mark the worker thread and do colorizing on the os-loganalyze side | 17:35 |
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| psedlak | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tempest+branch:master+topic:bp/neutron-advanced-scenarios,n,z | 17:35 |
| sdague | though I'm going to work through a nova bug today, so that won't be until next week | 17:35 |
| mtreinish | sdague: but I like that you add configurable length to the indent | 17:36 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76674/ | 17:36 |
| sdague | mtreinish: that's in there now | 17:36 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75411/ | 17:36 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah I know I was saying it was good :) | 17:36 |
| sdague | L137 - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76674/2/tools/subunit-trace.py | 17:36 |
| andreaf_ | sdague: the current output looks good, colorizing could be even nicer | 17:36 |
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| sdague | yeh, I agree that I'm mixed on it when we get to 4 processes | 17:37 |
| mtreinish | andreaf_: we have the colorizer in tools/ already | 17:37 |
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| mtreinish | andreaf_: or did you meant use color smarter in the new filter? | 17:37 |
| sdague | yeh, the colorizer will need to be different, because this hooks the subunit stream at a different place | 17:37 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: yes I though use different color for different processes | 17:38 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: at the moment indentation is used | 17:38 |
| sdague | andreaf_: yeh, that's what I was thinking, but from a web perspective, we'll have to do that in os-loganalyze | 17:38 |
| mtreinish | sdague: but this comes back to what I was saying about adding options for local runs to the filter too | 17:39 |
| sdague | anyway, will keep puttering on it, comments welcome | 17:39 |
| sdague | mtreinish: sure | 17:39 |
| mtreinish | ok are there any other reviews? | 17:39 |
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| sdague | afazekas: on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75411/3 why not deal with that with a lock? | 17:39 |
| sdague | that's who we handle az manip in osapi | 17:39 |
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| afazekas | sdague: it is different type of issue | 17:40 |
| sdague | ok, will look later | 17:40 |
| afazekas | Long time ago we just had only one AZ one the gate, and the test pick the first existing az | 17:40 |
| afazekas | Now other test cases are creating and deleting az | 17:40 |
| sdague | right, that's definitely not right :) | 17:40 |
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| mtreinish | afazekas: why not just create your own boto test az then? | 17:41 |
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| mtreinish | if a lock won't fix the issue | 17:41 |
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| mtreinish | well anyway afazekas we can talk about this on -qa later | 17:41 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: one az exists any all system anyway | 17:41 |
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| mtreinish | lets move on to dkranz's topic | 17:42 |
| sdague | yep | 17:42 |
| mtreinish | #topic What is our strategy for getting fail on log errors turned back on? (dkranz) | 17:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "What is our strategy for getting fail on log errors turned back on? (dkranz) (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:42 | |
| dkranz | sdague and I discussed this a little bit yesterday | 17:42 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: ok go ahead | 17:42 |
| dkranz | I did a lot of work putting together the whitelist as it is now | 17:42 |
| dkranz | I am not eager to do that again | 17:43 |
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| dkranz | So the question is how we can get a clean run | 17:43 |
| dkranz | Seems to me we should approach this one log file at a time | 17:43 |
| dkranz | For each log file we get the project to clean it, then we start failing that file | 17:44 |
| dkranz | And do on until we hit them all | 17:44 |
| * afazekas thinks seeing just real ERRORs in the log has high value | 17:44 | |
| dkranz | so | 17:44 |
| sdague | afazekas: real ERRORs should be failures | 17:44 |
| afazekas | sdague: yes | 17:44 |
| sdague | if the system has an error, it shouldn't pass the tests | 17:44 |
| dkranz | afazekas: I agree and we had that happening but turned it off due to flaky gate | 17:45 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: that might work, then we can go about it more iteratively instead of trying to do it all at once | 17:45 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: exactly | 17:45 |
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| sdague | dkranz: ok, so marking logs that aren't allowed to have errors? | 17:45 |
| sdague | so there needs to be some support on that in your tool | 17:45 |
| dkranz | sdague: right. It should be a trivial change to the checker | 17:45 |
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| dkranz | sdague: I will do that | 17:46 |
| sdague | I'd be ok with that | 17:46 |
| dkranz | sdague: Can you socialize this at the project meeting? | 17:46 |
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| sdague | sure | 17:46 |
| dkranz | sdague: We need some volunteers | 17:46 |
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| dkranz | sdague: to go first | 17:46 |
| sdague | well, volunteers right now will be hard | 17:46 |
| sdague | with the rush on i3 | 17:46 |
| dkranz | sdague: I know. But it we start talking about it now maybe after that we can get some progress | 17:46 |
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| sdague | sure | 17:47 |
| andreaf_ | dkranz: on a related topic, but on slightly, does the log check tool support pulling logs from a multinode test environment? | 17:47 |
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| dkranz | andreaf_: Not really. Unless you use central logging | 17:47 |
| afazekas | andreaf_: you can cat it before processing :) | 17:47 |
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| andreaf_ | dkranz, afazekas: ok | 17:48 |
| dkranz | anderstj: It just takes a directory where it expects to find the logs | 17:48 |
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| dkranz | andreaf_: or url | 17:48 |
| dkranz | anderstj: Sorry | 17:48 |
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| dkranz | mtreinish: I think that's all for that topic | 17:49 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: ok thanks | 17:49 |
| andreaf_ | dkranz: ok I see | 17:49 |
| mtreinish | well that leads us to the open discussion section then | 17:49 |
| mtreinish | #topic open discussion | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: qa)" | 17:49 | |
| mtreinish | so does anyone have any topics that they'd like to bring up that weren't on the agenda? | 17:49 |
| afazekas | Periodic master jobs are not in good state | 17:49 |
| andreaf_ | mtreinish: I'm starting to look in tripleo-ci, I'd like to get tempest running on the overcloud in there | 17:50 |
| psedlak | dkranz: what about picking first volunteer(s) based on the amount of errors ... start with those which have just few | 17:50 |
| andreaf_ | afazekas: sorry go ahead | 17:50 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: I just did a buch of changes to what was running in the periodic jobs | 17:50 |
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| dkranz | psedlak: Sure, except that we can't pick them. They have to volunteer :) | 17:50 |
| mtreinish | because the list was really messed up before | 17:50 |
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| afazekas | We have some peridic jobs (including stress), but according to the log they are failed to start :( | 17:50 |
| mtreinish | so I think we may have had some bit rot because they weren't running | 17:50 |
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| mtreinish | afazekas: yeah I noticed that too, I'll have to dig more into it | 17:51 |
| psedlak | dkranz: sure, just we can try to convince them to volunteer a with less errors the resistance could be smaller ;) | 17:51 |
| mtreinish | andreaf_: so what is needed to get tempest running there? | 17:51 |
| psedlak | dkranz: anyway if any project will agree in the first round we don't need to care about picking one | 17:52 |
| andreaf_ | mtreinish: well first of all get tempest deployed and then configure it | 17:52 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: at the first look the job definition was the same as with the working jobs | 17:52 |
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| andreaf_ | mtreinish: I just started looking into it, I wanted to know if anyone is already on it from this team | 17:52 |
| * afazekas thinking about some additional stress jobs with the know flaky issues | 17:53 | |
| mtreinish | andreaf_: I haven't been and it hasn't come up on the meeting before. But, I'm sure someone working the tripleo ci stuff is looking at it | 17:53 |
| mtreinish | because as I understood it the plan was to run tempest for that | 17:53 |
| andreaf_ | mtreinish: as tripleo supports multi node environments potentially, there may be some things to be changed to make everything work in multinode scenario as well | 17:54 |
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| mtreinish | afazekas: can't you just add the decorator the flaky tests? | 17:54 |
| dkranz | andreaf_: Yes, part of the work here is to de-devstackize tempest configuration | 17:54 |
| dkranz | andreaf_: Which I have also been looking at. | 17:54 |
| andreaf_ | dkranz: great | 17:55 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: I would like to have ~4 jobs with only one or two test on 4-8 threads | 17:55 |
| mtreinish | afazekas: it's been a while since I looked at the stress stuff but I think that should be doable with the current framework | 17:56 |
| andreaf_ | mtreinish: do we have bps on tempest side for this topics (de-devstackize, multinode) | 17:56 |
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| afazekas | mtreinish: If you have zillion of different things on multiple thread it is difficult to tell what really contributed to the flaky result | 17:56 |
| mtreinish | andreaf_: well there was a multinode one for like forever | 17:56 |
| afazekas | mtreinish: yes it is | 17:56 |
| mtreinish | andreaf_: as for de-devstack stuff I don't think so | 17:57 |
| psedlak | andreaf_: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/tempest-config-generator | 17:57 |
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| psedlak | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/tempest-config-generator | 17:57 |
| mtreinish | but it's something I always look out for in reviews | 17:57 |
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| afazekas | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1284708 | 17:57 |
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| mtreinish | psedlak: its more about underlying assumptions in tempest about the env | 17:58 |
| andreaf_ | psedlak: thanks. For tripleo-ci, as we have the config data which is used to setup the environment (like for devstack), I was thinking we could configure tempest based on it - same way we configure services via heat in the overcloud | 17:58 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: Right | 17:58 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: Like I just discovered tempest expects the admin user to also have admin role in the demo tenant | 17:59 |
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| dkranz | andreaf_: Yes you could do that. | 18:00 |
| mtreinish | ok well we're out of time for today | 18:00 |
| mtreinish | thanks everyone | 18:00 |
| andreaf_ | bye | 18:00 |
| mtreinish | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "storage backends (Meeting topic: swift)" | 18:00 | |
| psedlak | andreaf_: agree, part of the stuff can be detected, but otherwise the deploy-tool knows the rest, and they can share the burden of common config part using one tool which can deliver at least working defaults | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 27 18:00:20 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-02-27-17.01.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-02-27-17.01.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-02-27-17.01.log.html | 18:00 |
| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 27 18:00:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:00 |
| bdpayne | Hi security group | 18:00 |
| bdpayne | #topic Roll Call | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:00 | |
| bknudson | bdpayne: hi | 18:00 |
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| bdpayne | well, we have two! | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne | #topic Agenda | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:02 | |
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| bdpayne | I'd like to discuss the OSSG lead elections today | 18:02 |
| bknudson | in keystone dolphm started sending a message out with all the participants' names at the start of the meeting. | 18:02 |
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| malini1 | greetings | 18:02 |
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| bdpayne | You mean just a mention in IRC or an email? | 18:02 |
| bdpayne | morning malini1 | 18:02 |
| nkinder_ | Hi guys | 18:02 |
| bknudson | bdpayne: just in irc | 18:03 |
| shohel02_ | hi guys | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | gotcha... not a bad idea | 18:03 |
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| bknudson | the message is on the meeting wiki | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | so we're on agenda | 18:03 |
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| bdpayne | beyond lead elections, I can provide a brief update on the book project | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | anything else for today? | 18:04 |
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| shohel02_ | i give some update on threat modelling work | 18:04 |
| nkinder_ | great, I'm curious about the threat modeling work | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | ok, sounds good | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | #topic Quick Book Update | 18:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Quick Book Update (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:05 | |
| bdpayne | So I'm at the RSA Conference this week | 18:05 |
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| bdpayne | I met with David Mortman, who is one of the book editors | 18:05 |
| bdpayne | we decided that a good first step is to put together a style guide | 18:05 |
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| bdpayne | (or borrow one from other OS Docs projects) | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | so that the book can have a consistent voice, tone, etc | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | so that's something that he will be working on | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | also on the book, I believe that malini1 still has an outstanding PR? | 18:06 |
| malini1 | :-) Yes, will commit it this week, last few tweaks | 18:07 |
| bknudson | working on a style guide or working on changing the book to match the style? | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | great, sounds good | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/73195/ for reference | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | bknudson malini1 is just working on a specific book editing ticket | 18:07 |
| malini1 | I was thinking that is also time to update with more key management info once Barbican is out of incubation | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | the style guide is separate | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | malini1 that would be nice | 18:08 |
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| bdpayne | perhaps open a doc ticket? | 18:08 |
| bdpayne | ok, any other book discussion? | 18:08 |
| malini1 | bdpayne: will do | 18:08 |
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| nkinder_ | malini: yes, though barbican only covers certain key management use cases AFAIK | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | #topic Lead Elections | 18:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Lead Elections (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:09 | |
| bdpayne | I've started putting together a document to describe the election process | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | This was basically stolen from the PTL / TC election process | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/OSSG_Lead_Election_Spring_2014 | 18:09 |
| bdpayne | I'd like to -- as a first step -- make sure that everyone is on board with this being a good way to proceed | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | If people feel ok with this, then Rob and I will push ahead with the logistics | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | I will send this to the mailing list later today | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | But wanted to get some initial feedback here, if possible | 18:10 |
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| bknudson | might be useful to give more lead time... | 18:11 |
| bknudson | you've got several ways that one could be an active contributor... | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | lead time for declaring an intent to run or? | 18:11 |
| nkinder_ | the page looks pretty straightforward | 18:11 |
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| bknudson | where if there's an announcement that there's an election coming up | 18:12 |
| amey | Hello, I have a question about OpenStack security mechanisms? | 18:12 |
| bknudson | a lot of people might want to become an active contributor | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | ah, I see | 18:12 |
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| bdpayne | would we want to encourage that? | 18:12 |
| bknudson | so do we want to give some amount of time for others to become active? | 18:12 |
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| amey | We are working on a project to develop a component that can allow user to select security checks | 18:12 |
| amey | Is there an existing component that does this? | 18:13 |
| nkinder_ | amey: we'll have an open question phase at the end of the meeting. Is it OK to discuss then? | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | amey We are mid-meeting here... we typically have some time for open discussion at the end | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | :-) | 18:13 |
| amey | Okay, sure | 18:13 |
| amey | :) | 18:13 |
| nkinder_ | amey: thx | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | while I do love getting more people to actively contribute | 18:13 |
| nkinder_ | So it sound slike the question is if we want to consider people who are not yet active for nominations | 18:13 |
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| bdpayne | I'm not sure how much we'd want to encourage it just for the elections | 18:14 |
| nkinder_ | start becoming active now for elections in J :) | 18:14 |
| bknudson | ok, that makes sense. | 18:14 |
| bknudson | just wanted to consider it | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | yeah, it's a fair point | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | and I'm open to other thoughts here | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | I can see both side | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | *sides | 18:14 |
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| bdpayne | ok, I'll leave it as is... if anyone has concerns please feel free to comment on the email thread on the ML later today or just email me directly | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | any other thoughts / discussion on the election process? | 18:16 |
| nkinder_ | I think it's good for one to already have some background, and just attending an IRC meeting is on the list of "active". That's a low barrier to entry. | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | it is | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | I suspect if someone just showed up for one meeting that they wouldn't get elected as lead | 18:16 |
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| bdpayne | but, I'm ok with them voting | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | that was my thinking | 18:16 |
| bdpayne | since we are a fledging community at this point | 18:17 |
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| malini1 | bdpayne: the whole openstack community gets to vote, or only OSSG members? | 18:17 |
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| bdpayne | only active ossg members | 18:17 |
| bdpayne | at least, per the current wording of this document | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | this mirrors how PTLs are elected for other projects | 18:18 |
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| bdpayne | it is just that with code-driven projects it is easier to identify an active contributor | 18:18 |
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| bdpayne | so I've tried to be broad with that definition | 18:18 |
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| malini1 | bdpayne: good point on broading definition | 18:19 |
| bdpayne | hence the catch all at the bottom... in case I forgot any kind of contribution that someone may have made | 18:19 |
| shohel02_ | i agree with Nkinder, one meeting attending for voting is a broad definition | 18:20 |
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| bdpayne | do you guys have a suggestion for narrowing that a bit? | 18:21 |
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| bdpayne | perhaps attending X meetings where X > 1 (or X > 2, or whatever)? | 18:21 |
| malini1 | bdpayne: a few more meetings and push out the election to April? | 18:22 |
| shohel02_ | thats sounds good more than +1 | 18:22 |
| nkinder_ | How about "participated" instead of "attended"? | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | that's kind of a grey area | 18:22 |
| nkinder_ | it's still vague, but cuts out just lurking on the IRC channel | 18:22 |
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| bdpayne | to prove attendance, we'd need to at least see a line with their name in the meeting logs | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | I think that's probably all we can do | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | anything more is judgement | 18:23 |
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| bdpayne | Re pushing it out to April... would the intent be to allow people to get involved in meetings now so that they could be part of the electorate? | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | I'd hate to see people do that only to drop off again after the election | 18:24 |
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| bdpayne | ok, given the time, I'll take this discussion to the ML .. please watch for my email in the next few hours | 18:25 |
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| bdpayne | #topic Threat Modeling | 18:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Threat Modeling (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:25 | |
| bdpayne | shohel02_ the floor is yours | 18:26 |
| shohel02_ | ok | 18:26 |
| shohel02_ | we have updated the wiki page related to threat modeling.. | 18:26 |
| shohel02_ | contains all the docs shared earlier, by mail and others | 18:26 |
| shohel02_ | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Threat_Analysis | 18:26 |
| shohel02_ | any comments are welcome... | 18:26 |
| shohel02_ | Last Friday, we have also discussed with couple of members | 18:26 |
| shohel02_ | of OSSG ow should we progress, We are now working with Keystone, | 18:27 |
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| shohel02_ | paulmo said he tries to implement threat modeling process for Solenium | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | great... so sounds like this is moving forward | 18:27 |
| paulmo | Solum; yep | 18:27 |
| shohel02_ | In general, we need two people per project plus some | 18:27 |
| shohel02_ | engagement from respective project. | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | what are the next steps? | 18:27 |
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| nkinder_ | shohel02_: Was there an IRC meeting covering threat modeling last week? I tried to attend, but nobody was there. | 18:27 |
| shohel02_ | continue the work | 18:27 |
| shohel02_ | we still plenty of things to do | 18:28 |
| shohel02_ | yes | 18:28 |
| bknudson | I didn't know about the meeting... | 18:28 |
| paulmo | nkinder_: The channel had ## in front I believe… I almost got mixed up too. | 18:28 |
| shohel02_ | last friday... we will meet again on next Friday | 18:28 |
| nkinder_ | paulmo: I was wondering about that extra #.... | 18:28 |
| shohel02_ | we posted it in the openstack-security group | 18:28 |
| shohel02_ | mailing list | 18:28 |
| shohel02_ | although bit late | 18:28 |
| bknudson | ok, thanks | 18:28 |
| nkinder_ | shohel02_: yeah, I thought the extra # was a typo | 18:28 |
| nkinder_ | shohel02_: who is involved on the keystone side? | 18:28 |
| paulmo | shohel02_: There is another channel with the exact same name with a single # in front… might be confusing for folks. | 18:28 |
| bknudson | will try to join in next time. | 18:29 |
| shohel02_ | ok, i do not know about that | 18:29 |
| shohel02_ | ## because its an unofficial channel | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | fyi http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-security/2014-February/001081.html | 18:29 |
| lmcmpou | shohel: what's the channel again and when? | 18:29 |
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| malini1 | bdypayne: amey had a question | 18:29 |
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| bdpayne | ok, thanks for the update | 18:29 |
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| bdpayne | is that all for threat modeling? | 18:29 |
| shohel02_ | ##openstack-threat-analysis | 18:29 |
| shohel02_ | yes | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | ok, thanks! | 18:30 |
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| bdpayne | #topic Open Discussion | 18:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:30 | |
| amey | Yes, thanks! We are a group of grad students working on improving OpenStack security | 18:30 |
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| bdpayne | amey still around? | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | which school amey? | 18:30 |
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| amey | We want to build a component that will allow users to select the check they want to have | 18:30 |
| amey | CMU | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | ah great, welcome | 18:31 |
| malini1 | amey: any blueprint or write up for us to read? | 18:31 |
| amey | is there a component that does this? Or is this project viable? | 18:31 |
| bdpayne | by check, are you talking about applying role based access controls across openstack or ? | 18:31 |
| nkinder_ | amey: by "check", do you mean a tool that will audit from a security standpoint? | 18:31 |
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| bdpayne | heh... yeah I guess check can mean a lot | 18:31 |
| amey | We are in design phase an will be ready with a blueprint in 2 months | 18:31 |
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| amey | our main aim is static code integrity check using IMA/TPM | 18:32 |
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| amey | this component will extent TCPs | 18:32 |
| malini1 | amey: we have trusted-compute-pools today that does BIOS, firmware and VMM check against known good values | 18:33 |
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| malini1 | amey: would like to learn more. wanted to extent "trust" to bare metal | 18:33 |
| bdpayne | amey I think some of the relevant questions here are what do you want to check, and how does the result of the check influence the system | 18:33 |
| amey | Yes, do we check the integrity in run time? Eg. regular integrity checks? | 18:34 |
| bdpayne | amey not much runtime checking today | 18:34 |
| bdpayne | usually it is just boot time | 18:34 |
| bdpayne | but runtime would be nice | 18:34 |
| amey | Yes, we wanted to do that | 18:34 |
| bdpayne | sounds like a potentially interesting discussion | 18:34 |
| bdpayne | perhaps worth taking to the mailing list? http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-security | 18:34 |
| amey | But we are concerned about the design and performance tradeoffs | 18:34 |
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| bdpayne | this is one of those trickey areas that spans all of the openstack projects... and then some | 18:35 |
| amey | Can the community review our design when we are done with it? Whom should I submit them to? | 18:35 |
| bdpayne | we should talk more on the mailing list about your goals and such | 18:35 |
| bdpayne | OSSG has done some security reviews, but typically more for established projects and such | 18:35 |
| nkinder_ | +1 | 18:35 |
| paulmo | Perhaps even creating an early blueprint with goals would help folks understand better too. | 18:36 |
| bdpayne | but I'm open to further discussion | 18:36 |
| bdpayne | yeah | 18:36 |
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| bdpayne | ok, thanks all... I know we're a bit over time in so thanks for sticking around | 18:36 |
| bdpayne | have a great week! | 18:36 |
| amey | Thank you ! :) | 18:36 |
| bknudson | thanks! | 18:36 |
| shohel02_ | thanks | 18:36 |
| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "storage backends (Meeting topic: swift)" | 18:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 27 18:36:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:36 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-02-27-18.00.html | 18:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-02-27-18.00.txt | 18:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-02-27-18.00.log.html | 18:36 |
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| vkozhukalov | #startmeeting Fuel | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 27 19:00:07 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is vkozhukalov. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'fuel' | 19:00 |
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| vkozhukalov | #chair vkozhukalov | 19:00 |
| openstack | Current chairs: vkozhukalov | 19:00 |
| vkozhukalov | #topic Greeting, roll-call, announcements. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Greeting, roll-call, announcements. (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 19:00 | |
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| vkozhukalov | guys, hi everyone, it is our first weekly meeting | 19:01 |
| vkozhukalov | who is here? | 19:01 |
| agordeev2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| evgeniyl` | Hi. | 19:01 |
| mihgen | me is here | 19:01 |
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| mattymo| | Salutations! | 19:02 |
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| mihgen | can you share agenda pls | 19:02 |
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| aglarendil|mobi | Hi | 19:02 |
| vk | hi | 19:02 |
| vkozhukalov | #link ttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Fuel#Agenda_for_2.2F27.2F2014 | 19:02 |
| e0ne | hi | 19:02 |
| vkozhukalov | sorry #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Fuel#Agenda_for_2.2F27.2F2014 | 19:02 |
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| vkozhukalov | ok, I think we can start | 19:02 |
| vkozhukalov | #topic Moving fuel-web/naily into fuel-astute | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Moving fuel-web/naily into fuel-astute (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 19:03 | |
| mihgen | I thought it's there ) | 19:03 |
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| mihgen | so I'm +1 for sure | 19:03 |
| aglarendil|mobi | I do not have any objections | 19:03 |
| dpyzhov | +1 | 19:03 |
| vkozhukalov | mihgen, no it is not | 19:03 |
| evgeniyl` | +1 | 19:04 |
| mihgen | we should keep in mind though all the complexity in our Jenkins jobs | 19:04 |
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| vkozhukalov | ok, i think vova sharshov is going to work on it | 19:04 |
| e0ne | +1, it's not web-related code | 19:04 |
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| vkozhukalov | is he here? | 19:04 |
| mihgen | so don't forget about preparing about all of that CI stuff before we move .. | 19:04 |
| vkozhukalov | vova, around? | 19:04 |
| evgeniyl` | vkozhukalov: yeah, we have discussed it already, we need to add in the current release. | 19:04 |
| mihgen | warpc is his nick I believe. . | 19:04 |
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| mihgen | current release == which one? | 19:05 |
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| mihgen | not in 4.1 please | 19:05 |
| vkozhukalov | Ok, everyone agree | 19:05 |
| evgeniyl` | 5.0 | 19:05 |
| vkozhukalov | is there blueprint for that& | 19:05 |
| vkozhukalov | is there blueprint for that? | 19:05 |
| e0ne | i think that all meeting agenda is about 5.0 release | 19:05 |
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| e0ne | isn't it? | 19:05 |
| mihgen | yep sure | 19:06 |
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| mihgen | it's all frozen for 4.1 | 19:06 |
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| vkozhukalov | i think we need to have another discussion about our release cycle | 19:06 |
| evgeniyl` | vkozhukalov: I was trying to find it and I didn't, so we need to create it. | 19:06 |
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| vkozhukalov | evgeniyl`, can you create it tomorrow? | 19:07 |
| mihgen | it's perhaps rather granular task out of the whole idea in moves of repos | 19:07 |
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| evgeniyl` | Yeah, I can. | 19:07 |
| vkozhukalov | AndreyDanin_, hi | 19:07 |
| mihgen | so it can be one blueprint with ToDo items in there? | 19:07 |
| AndreyDanin_ | vkozhukalov, hi | 19:07 |
| mihgen | or we will need to have separated bugs in LP instead? | 19:07 |
| xarses | I'm here too =) | 19:08 |
| vkozhukalov | mihgen, i think separate blueprint would be ok | 19:08 |
| evgeniyl` | mihgen: I think we need to create a blueprint, because it is not small task. | 19:08 |
| mihgen | ok, agree | 19:08 |
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| vkozhukalov | ok, I think we've done about this topic | 19:08 |
| mihgen | mattymo: don't disappear man, we need you :) | 19:09 |
| vkozhukalov | #topic Moving web UI (javascript) into separate repo | 19:09 |
| mihgen | vkozhukalov: yep | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Moving web UI (javascript) into separate repo (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 19:09 | |
| mihgen | can't disagree on this too | 19:09 |
| vkozhukalov | it is again about refactoring | 19:09 |
| e0ne | but I can | 19:09 |
| mattymo| | Migen, sorry unstable pub wifi | 19:09 |
| mihgen | e0ne: what's up there? | 19:09 |
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| vkozhukalov | and i believe there is no blueprint about this task | 19:10 |
| mihgen | mattymo: bustard you are still in the pub | 19:10 |
| vk | guys, there are UI tests that require both UI and nailgun | 19:10 |
| mihgen | woops | 19:10 |
| vk | how much complex for potentials contributors will it be to setup an env> | 19:10 |
| vk | the same is for CLI | 19:10 |
| e0ne | it's too difficult to separate them without any issue | 19:10 |
| xarses | vk: I think it does make a bit of the testing harder, but that shouldn't preclude the test script from cloning the repo | 19:10 |
| mihgen | while it's so tight to nailgun... | 19:10 |
| mihgen | perhaps we should not separate then | 19:11 |
| xarses | vk: maybe we should have them in seperate folders in fuel-web repo then? | 19:11 |
| vkozhukalov | i still think we need to do that | 19:11 |
| xarses | make it more obvious where to go | 19:11 |
| vkozhukalov | but of course we need to be accurate | 19:11 |
| vk | xarses, they are already in separate folders. nailgun and static respectively | 19:12 |
| mihgen | separate folders are ok, but testing and overall support …. could be much more complicated | 19:12 |
| mihgen | vk: separated but not in root of repo | 19:12 |
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| e0ne | let's assing somebody to investigate it. may be it will be too complexity to setup dev env or something else | 19:12 |
| vk | yep | 19:12 |
| vkozhukalov | guys, UI is a client library | 19:12 |
| mihgen | I would expect smth like fuel-web/nailgun & fuel-web/fuel-ui | 19:12 |
| angdraug | how about putting all tests that require code from more than one repo into fuel-main? | 19:13 |
| xarses | mihgen: +1 | 19:13 |
| vkozhukalov | it for sure needs to be in a separate repo | 19:13 |
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| mattymo| | Lets call it fuel-dashboard | 19:13 |
| mihgen | vkozhukalov: so why would we need it in separate repo then? | 19:13 |
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| mihgen | if it complicates the whole development process for UI guys? | 19:13 |
| dpyzhov | angdraug: +1 | 19:13 |
| mihgen | they always need a certain version of python backend | 19:13 |
| vkozhukalov | mihgen, it is a common tradition | 19:13 |
| mihgen | they often base on each other | 19:14 |
| angdraug | I think our UI could benefit from decoupling from nailgun | 19:14 |
| xarses | heres my thought on seperate repo, unless ui can run on its own with out nailgun, it should be in the same repo, even if in same folder | 19:14 |
| vkozhukalov | mihgen, yes, but what about writing script for automatic deployment of dev env | 19:14 |
| mihgen | +1 to xarses | 19:14 |
| vk | it cannot | 19:15 |
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| vk | UI needs nailgun API to work properly | 19:15 |
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| angdraug | in that case we should decouple them first, and shelve the topic of splitting the repos until they're properly decoupled | 19:15 |
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| xarses | vk: then it stays somewhere under fuel-web/ but preferably not in fuel-web/nailgun/static | 19:16 |
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| mihgen | again +1 to xarses :) | 19:16 |
| vk | okay | 19:16 |
| vkozhukalov | cli also needs nailgun api, is it supposed to be in the same repo as well? | 19:16 |
| e0ne | xarses, agree with you | 19:16 |
| angdraug | fuel-web/ui/? | 19:16 |
| e0ne | vkozhukalov: no | 19:16 |
| angdraug | e0ne: why not? | 19:17 |
| vkozhukalov | let's have a look how ppl from openstack do the same thing | 19:17 |
| vkozhukalov | horizon is a separate project | 19:17 |
| angdraug | fuel-web/api + fuel-web/ui + fuel-web/cli | 19:17 |
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| e0ne | fuel client could be installed not on the same node as fuel-master | 19:17 |
| vkozhukalov | it is also unable to work without nova | 19:17 |
| angdraug | horizon talks to dozens of different APIs | 19:17 |
| vk | i'm not sure if web.py can handle static outside of its root dir, but in that case we can put a symlink in our repo static -> ../../fuel-ui | 19:18 |
| xarses | vkozhukalov: it can stand alone, given there is an api server somewhere to test with, but if we look at lke nova, nova-client is inside of nova project | 19:18 |
| vkozhukalov | why they don't put it in nova repo? | 19:18 |
| mattymo| | We should split to fuel-api fuel-dashboard and python-fuelclient | 19:18 |
| vkozhukalov | our UI is also can be just put into web server directory | 19:18 |
| angdraug | I don't like fuel-dashboard, horizon is dashboard | 19:18 |
| vk | horizon has a backend part | 19:18 |
| mattymo| | Just to mirror fuel | 19:18 |
| mattymo| | Ooops openstack | 19:18 |
| vk | our ui is a pure js app which doesn't work without a server | 19:19 |
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| xarses | well there is another thing to note, we cam make seperate packages from the same repo, if they share common code, its common for them to stay in the same repo | 19:19 |
| vk | unlike horizon | 19:19 |
| xarses | like in the case of nova and nova client | 19:19 |
| davideaster | +1 to angdraug. Name should not be dashboard as that would confuse with OpenStack Dashboard (Horizon) | 19:19 |
| mihgen | +1 to xarses and vk. unless you prove necessity of separate repos, I would not try to disperse the code | 19:20 |
| vkozhukalov | ok, let's vote | 19:20 |
| mihgen | maintenance becomes hard | 19:20 |
| vkozhukalov | #startvote | 19:20 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 19:20 |
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| angdraug | +1 mihgen | 19:20 |
| xarses | +1 mihgen | 19:20 |
| vkozhukalov | -1 | 19:20 |
| vk | +1 mihgen | 19:21 |
| mihgen | +1 mihgen =))) | 19:21 |
| dpyzhov | +1 m | 19:21 |
| vkozhukalov | lol | 19:21 |
| evgeniyl` | 0 | 19:21 |
| mihgen | how this voting thing works actually | 19:21 |
| e0ne | guys, what's about to spell about 1d for PoC with separating nailgun and UI? | 19:21 |
| vkozhukalov | mihgen, i don't know | 19:21 |
| vkozhukalov | i believe it is just a tag | 19:22 |
| mattymo| | +1 | 19:22 |
| vkozhukalov | ok, let's move on | 19:22 |
| vkozhukalov | #topic Moving fuel-web/fuelclient into separate repo python-fuelclient and making it client library not just CLI | 19:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Moving fuel-web/fuelclient into separate repo python-fuelclient and making it client library not just CLI (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 19:22 | |
| e0ne | it's very difficult for me to make a decision. need to try it | 19:22 |
| e0ne | ^^ it was about nailgun & ui | 19:22 |
| angdraug | e0ne: just work towards refactoring the code to reduce coupling gradually | 19:23 |
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| evgeniyl` | CLI use nailgun for testing too. | 19:23 |
| e0ne | +! | 19:23 |
| mihgen | so basically here same thing, CLI fully relies on nailgun | 19:23 |
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| vkozhukalov | what about moving cli into separate repo and renaming it into python-fuelclient | 19:23 |
| e0ne | angdraug:+1 | 19:23 |
| mihgen | so same what I and angdraug said, keep in fuel-web/cli | 19:23 |
| e0ne | vkozhukalov: absolutely agree. but need to rename blueprint. it's a bit confusing | 19:23 |
| angdraug | I think the same approach proposed by xarses for ui applies: same repo, different packages | 19:23 |
| mihgen | yep | 19:24 |
| vk | but CLI can work standalone if provided with nailgun api url. UI cannot | 19:24 |
| angdraug | vk: UI runs in the web browser, same thing | 19:24 |
| mihgen | still what are the benefits of having it separatee repo? | 19:24 |
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| vk | no, let me explain | 19:24 |
| e0ne | separate repo for fuel-client === using openstack infra for testing and review-request w/o modifications, just configuration | 19:25 |
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| vkozhukalov | guys, we have invented fully test driven development process, we can not move anything wherever we want because of tests )) | 19:25 |
| angdraug | if it's coupled to api and can't be tested without a matching api server, they should stay in the same repo | 19:25 |
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| e0ne | client is a standalone application/package | 19:25 |
| vk | you can run cli with nailgun api url and it will work. UI must be served bu nailgun our you need to configure a separate reverse proxy server to make it work | 19:25 |
| e0ne | vk, agree with you about cli | 19:26 |
| vkozhukalov | actually ui also can work without nailgun in the same sense as our cli can | 19:26 |
| mihgen | anyway cli can't work without nailgun, so don't see any point at the moment of having it in separated repo | 19:26 |
| vk | but like UI, CLI has tests that require nailgun | 19:26 |
| mihgen | e0ne: ^^ see about tests | 19:26 |
| mihgen | infra won't help here out of the box anyway | 19:26 |
| e0ne | let's create real unit tests:))) | 19:26 |
| angdraug | I thought CLI relies on REST requests to nailgun for most of its functionality? | 19:26 |
| dpyzhov | why do we need to have all in one repo because of tests? we can have a pre-installed environment and test new commits in cli/ui with it. | 19:27 |
| angdraug | 1 | 19:27 |
| angdraug | +1 e0ne on unit tests | 19:27 |
| mihgen | dpyzhov: -1 to this approach | 19:27 |
| e0ne | thanks, angdraug | 19:27 |
| vkozhukalov | +1 dpyzhov | 19:27 |
| mihgen | your nailgun would be outdated | 19:27 |
| e0ne | +1 dpyzhov | 19:27 |
| mihgen | while cli is newer | 19:27 |
| mihgen | how can you test newer code on outdated nailgun? | 19:27 |
| mihgen | that's why it must be in sync | 19:27 |
| dpyzhov | cli is always came later then nailgun | 19:27 |
| angdraug | we should do better at separating unit tests from integration tests | 19:28 |
| mihgen | that's why ideally in same repo | 19:28 |
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| dpyzhov | and ui should be updated after changes in rest api | 19:28 |
| evgeniyl` | dpyzhov: -1 we can't, we need to have nailgun from master | 19:28 |
| e0ne | angdraug, +1 | 19:28 |
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| e0ne | stop | 19:28 |
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| e0ne | let's use fuelclient name instead cli | 19:28 |
| e0ne | it's different | 19:28 |
| mihgen | why? | 19:29 |
| dpyzhov | are we going to have all this stuff tied together forever? | 19:29 |
| xarses | guess unless we are starting to ensure that the REST api is backwards compatible, fuelclient relies on the same version of nailgun as is in the repo, they need to stay together | 19:29 |
| vk | as for syncing of different repos, you can later look into android approach which has hundreds of repos managed by "repo" tools which keeps different repos in sync and provides actions to all of them | 19:29 |
| xarses | s/guess/guys | 19:29 |
| dpyzhov | or we should have stable api instead? | 19:29 |
| e0ne | mihgen: it's the same for now | 19:29 |
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| angdraug | dpyzhov: xarses: we also need to have each of them have at least 80% unit test coverage before we can consider separating them | 19:30 |
| e0ne | mihgen: but in the future, we want have fuel client as python/cli client | 19:30 |
| xarses | angdraug: +1 | 19:30 |
| mihgen | angdraug: +1 | 19:30 |
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| mihgen | I suggest to do final vote, fully agree with angdraug here | 19:30 |
| angdraug | e0ne: +1 | 19:30 |
| vkozhukalov | ok, about version, let's add something like /v1/ in the beginning of every url and it would mean than v1 work exactly as we expect it to be | 19:30 |
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| e0ne | vkozhukalov: already done:) | 19:31 |
| dpyzhov | we can not split repos right now, it will produce a lot of pain. but we should take this approach it our minds | 19:31 |
| angdraug | mihgen: I don't think we're ready to vote | 19:31 |
| angdraug | not done laying out the options | 19:31 |
| vk | +1 dpyzhov | 19:31 |
| e0ne | dpyzhov: let's do it step-by-step/repo-by-repo | 19:31 |
| mihgen | regarding pain - that's for sure | 19:31 |
| vkozhukalov | ok, what is the problem then about mismatching of versions? | 19:31 |
| dpyzhov | and we should create good interfaces first | 19:31 |
| evgeniyl` | I think we need to find a way to test cli/ui against fresh nailgun. | 19:31 |
| mihgen | I configured all the CI initially and I know it for sure ) | 19:31 |
| angdraug | I think first step is tests | 19:31 |
| angdraug | then, enforcing backwards compatibility for API | 19:32 |
| nmarkov | we need to refactor or even completely rewrite our tests | 19:32 |
| vkozhukalov | ok, guys. it is almost obvious that we need to discuss it somewhere else | 19:32 |
| vkozhukalov | let's again vote and then move on | 19:32 |
| nmarkov | hangout tomorrow? | 19:32 |
| mihgen | about tests: while integration are lightweight as unit for fuel-cli, I would not even bother about unit for it | 19:32 |
| vkozhukalov | #startvote | 19:32 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 19:32 |
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| dpyzhov | I think we can move all the stuff to separate folders one repo now. | 19:33 |
| angdraug | what are we voting for/against? | 19:33 |
| vk | +1 for keeping CLI in fuel-web repo | 19:33 |
| vk | (for now) | 19:33 |
| vkozhukalov | i vote for moving fuelclient in a separate repo | 19:33 |
| e0ne | vk: -1 | 19:33 |
| dpyzhov | And wait till upgrades solution | 19:33 |
| mihgen | vk: +1 | 19:33 |
| evgeniyl` | -1 for keeping | 19:33 |
| xarses | vk: +1 | 19:33 |
| nmarkov | -1 | 19:33 |
| angdraug | vk: +1 | 19:33 |
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| angdraug | looks like we don't have a consensus | 19:34 |
| nmarkov | yep | 19:34 |
| evgeniyl` | it's ok) | 19:34 |
| mihgen | ok and I don't have explanation about separate repo too | 19:34 |
| angdraug | lets bring it up in the next meeting | 19:34 |
| vk | but guys, we should reapply consider repo tool: http://source.android.com/source/using-repo.html it is perfect to manage multi-repo project and has integration with gerrit | 19:34 |
| dpyzhov | I can't even understand who votes for what | 19:34 |
| vkozhukalov | yes, we'll discuss it later | 19:34 |
| vkozhukalov | moving on | 19:34 |
| vkozhukalov | #topic Building bootstrap (discovery) image using diskimage-builder | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Building bootstrap (discovery) image using diskimage-builder (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 19:35 | |
| mihgen | vkozhukalov: pls state what we should vote for before calling for it | 19:35 |
| vkozhukalov | mihgen, ok | 19:35 |
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| mihgen | sounds like right approach.. but I need more details on that to say for sure... | 19:35 |
| evgeniyl` | what is this topic about? | 19:35 |
| mihgen | > Building bootstrap (discovery) image using diskimage-builder | 19:35 |
| nmarkov | шьфпу-ифыув зкщмшышщтштп | 19:35 |
| nmarkov | image-based provisioning | 19:36 |
| mihgen | :) ) | 19:36 |
| vkozhukalov | at the moment the size of our bootstrap is about 140M | 19:36 |
| vkozhukalov | it is too big | 19:36 |
| xarses | vkozhukalov: I | 19:36 |
| vkozhukalov | diskimage-builder can help reduce it's size | 19:36 |
| mihgen | how can you make it smaller? but excluding some stuff from centos? | 19:36 |
| xarses | vkozhukalov: I looked over it and nothing execpt changing the compression will help make it smaller | 19:36 |
| vkozhukalov | again it is about what ppl in openstack use for building images | 19:37 |
| nmarkov | we don't need full centos as bootstrap | 19:37 |
| dpyzhov | http://ci.openstack.org/irc.html#voting | 19:37 |
| mihgen | how fast is the build process in comparison with our current approach? | 19:37 |
| mihgen | time is important here, in building our ISOs | 19:37 |
| xarses | vkozhukalov: we found that if we change from gzip to lzma it can be shunk to 80M | 19:37 |
| mattymo| | This image builder has templates for purging files | 19:37 |
| vkozhukalov | yes, we don't need centos based image | 19:37 |
| angdraug | bulk of the image is kernel modules, we can't drop drivers | 19:37 |
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| *** dvarga|away is now known as dvarga | 19:37 | |
| mattymo| | We need a newer kernel for lzma I believe | 19:37 |
| AndreyDanin_ | meanwhile, howto vote here http://ci.openstack.org/meetbot.html#voting | 19:38 |
| xarses | mattymo: centos 6.2+ is supposed to support it | 19:38 |
| dpyzhov | AndreyDanin_: too late =) | 19:38 |
| vkozhukalov | AndreyDanin_, thanks | 19:38 |
| vkozhukalov | AndreyDanin_, will try next time | 19:38 |
| mihgen | ok so question not about size | 19:39 |
| mihgen | we can make size smaller using our current make files I assume | 19:39 |
| vkozhukalov | ok, about size, we can try and then see would it reduce the size (i mean using dib) | 19:39 |
| mattymo| | Ok right. I think xz is what needs newer kernel for compressed squashfs root | 19:39 |
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| mihgen | so what about disk-image-builder? | 19:39 |
| mihgen | what about time? | 19:39 |
| mihgen | easy of use, debugging, etc.? | 19:39 |
| angdraug | did anyone investigate dib? | 19:39 |
| xarses | i don't disagree using dib because its what other Openstack projects use, but size won't get much smaller either way | 19:39 |
| vkozhukalov | it's easy to use | 19:40 |
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| mihgen | vkozhukalov: what about time of building? | 19:40 |
| mattymo| | we can shrink by pruning kernel modules and firmware | 19:40 |
| vkozhukalov | and the time of building is pretty the same | 19:40 |
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| angdraug | can it improve flexibility/reliability of our iso build process? | 19:40 |
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| angdraug | mattymo: -1 on pruning drivers/firmware | 19:40 |
| vkozhukalov | yea, actually it can help to improve the flexibility | 19:41 |
| angdraug | in that case we should consider it | 19:41 |
| angdraug | even if we don't win on image size or build time, current process for modifying bootstrap image basically isn't | 19:41 |
| vkozhukalov | maybe we will be able to reuse discovery solutions from ironic | 19:41 |
| mihgen | so preliminary +1 for me for it then | 19:41 |
| xarses | vkozhukalov: how would it improve? would it make it easier for end user to rebuild image in the field? | 19:42 |
| mattymo| | We dont need wifi drivers for exampl | 19:42 |
| mattymo| | E | 19:42 |
| mihgen | however I would like to see some techtalk about it | 19:42 |
| AndreyDanin_ | We be able to rebuild bootstrap on the master node. It allows us to include really strength ssh keypair. | 19:42 |
| vkozhukalov | xarses, in a sense | 19:42 |
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| vkozhukalov | modifing make file is not very pleasant | 19:42 |
| AndreyDanin_ | Anyone be able to rebuild its own bootstrap version, include additional drivers, etc. | 19:43 |
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| mattymo| | It should have a separate make system that can run independent | 19:43 |
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| mihgen | vkozhukalov: oh really, I remember you hard vote for it when I was trying to get rake onboard instead ;) | 19:43 |
| angdraug | mattymo: fair point on wifi drivers, although I'm not sure building custom kernels is the territory we're ready to explore | 19:43 |
| xarses | vkozhukalov: I think rebuilding the bootstrap in the field is the most important feature we need with regards to bootstrap, making it smaller and easier to distribute are secondary needs | 19:43 |
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| angdraug | xarses: +1 | 19:44 |
| vkozhukalov | mihgen, it was so long ago )) | 19:44 |
| vkozhukalov | ok, we still have some other topics | 19:44 |
| vkozhukalov | #topic Rewriting discovery agent into python | 19:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rewriting discovery agent into python (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 19:44 | |
| xarses | vkozhukalov: if moving to dib helps then yes, but so far I've heard no features that dib brings to us. regardless, it doesn't really matter how we build the bootstrap image | 19:44 |
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| mihgen | so +1 for disk-image-builder according to what is said here | 19:44 |
| mattymo| | Sorry I am on a moble device now. I will share a cool set of scripts for shrinking images | 19:45 |
| nmarkov | as for agent, I heard you meant something more than just rewriting it as it is | 19:45 |
| evgeniyl` | I don't think that we should just rewrite agent in python, it will be better to completely rewrite our discovering logic with mcollective (or any other transport). | 19:45 |
| xarses | +1 to discovery agent in python, it should make it easier for community to participate | 19:45 |
| nmarkov | could you clarify, please? | 19:45 |
| mihgen | what about vote for previous topic? | 19:45 |
| vkozhukalov | it is again about refactoring, ruby is not very suitable for openstack | 19:45 |
| mihgen | discovery agent on python = we are heavily dependent on ohai | 19:45 |
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| mihgen | I don't know anything like that in python | 19:46 |
| mihgen | now agent is trivial | 19:46 |
| angdraug | +1 to _research_ what dib can actually give us | 19:46 |
| mihgen | it takes ohai output and does rest api call | 19:46 |
| evgeniyl` | ohai can give json and we can parse it in python easily | 19:46 |
| nmarkov | #startvote Should we use diskimage-builder? Yes, No, Maybe | 19:46 |
| openstack | Only the meeting chair may start a vote. | 19:46 |
| AndreyDanin_ | evgeniyl`, +1 to rewrite logic | 19:46 |
| vk | afair we anyway gather some data in many places as we cannot rely on ohai | 19:46 |
| mattymo| | Ohai and facter use proc and dmidecode. Its just abstravtion magic | 19:46 |
| angdraug | can we have Research vote option please? | 19:46 |
| mattymo| | Abstraction* | 19:46 |
| mihgen | would you call ohai then as external program? | 19:46 |
| vkozhukalov | mihgen, salt grains is pretty much the same as ohai | 19:46 |
| mihgen | pretty much is not the same | 19:47 |
| mihgen | ohai is in place for years | 19:47 |
| mihgen | opscode fixed tons of bugs | 19:47 |
| mihgen | on different systems and drivers/hw | 19:47 |
| mattymo| | Its not ambrosia. It can be replaced | 19:47 |
| nmarkov | ohai actually has some shitty code inside | 19:47 |
| evgeniyl` | mihgen: +1 | 19:47 |
| AndreyDanin_ | #vote PoC | 19:47 |
| nmarkov | I tried to research it one day | 19:47 |
| evgeniyl` | Don't touch ohai please) | 19:47 |
| mihgen | rewriting that from scratch is very dangerous | 19:47 |
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| mihgen | nmarkov: you rather have shitty code in nailgun dude | 19:48 |
| e0ne | mihgen, nmarkov :))) | 19:48 |
| mihgen | that's stability thing, and we rely on it now | 19:48 |
| nmarkov | mihgen, nailgun is perfect, don't touch it | 19:48 |
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| mihgen | so I consider it's very dangerous to replace it on any other source of hardware information | 19:49 |
| xarses | nmarkov: all of the issues we have had with agent has been our internal logic, not ohai failing to work | 19:49 |
| xarses | recently anyway | 19:49 |
| nmarkov | xarses, not really, I remember some issues we had when were working with chef 1.5 years ago | 19:49 |
| vkozhukalov | ok, mihgen is right about danger | 19:49 |
| angdraug | if we don't need to fix ohai itself, I don't care how ugly it is on the inside long as it works | 19:49 |
| vkozhukalov | stability is extremely important here | 19:49 |
| nmarkov | but ohai is just a source of info, one of the many | 19:50 |
| vkozhukalov | ok, guys let's discuss it later | 19:50 |
| angdraug | in my experience pretty code and stability have a very weak correlation | 19:50 |
| vkozhukalov | we have just 10 minutes | 19:50 |
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| mihgen | angdraug: +1 | 19:50 |
| AndreyDanin_ | xarses, our logic fails because of ohai internal logic. | 19:50 |
| mihgen | AndreyDanin_: be more concrete | 19:50 |
| angdraug | vkozhukalov: call a vote and lets move to the next topic | 19:50 |
| nmarkov | there are some issues when ohai fails to fetch some hw info | 19:51 |
| vkozhukalov | #startvote for rewriting agent in python | 19:51 |
| xarses | nmarkov: AndreyDanin_ since i stared we have found 0 errors with ohai failing to find what we want, we just dont use what ohai sends us. | 19:51 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 19:51 |
| mihgen | it even proves what I said | 19:51 |
| mihgen | one bug in a long run - perfect code | 19:51 |
| nmarkov | and nailgun rebuilds half of the DB according to invalid data it sends | 19:51 |
| AndreyDanin_ | mihgen, I talk about magic with MAC and IP. | 19:51 |
| nmarkov | vkozhukalov, specify answers | 19:51 |
| vkozhukalov | -1 need to do additional research | 19:52 |
| nmarkov | AndreyDanin_, +1 | 19:52 |
| evgeniyl` | nmarkov: invalid data sends not ohai, agent does it. | 19:52 |
| mattymo| | +1 to research alternatives in python to ohai | 19:52 |
| nmarkov | evgeniyl`, so, it is agent which can't get a MAC? please, dude | 19:52 |
| mihgen | I vote for keeping existing ohai and agent | 19:52 |
| nmarkov | +1 mattymo| | 19:52 |
| mihgen | as they are small and doing it's job now pretty well | 19:52 |
| angdraug | -1 on research, let's focus on bigger problems first | 19:52 |
| evgeniyl` | nmarkov: did you see agent code, it parses data from ohai and make additional filtering and data preparation | 19:52 |
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| mihgen | we don't need them to be extended any heavily | 19:52 |
| evgeniyl` | nmarkov: what are you talking about? | 19:53 |
| mihgen | we have plenty other more important things | 19:53 |
| nmarkov | evgeniyl`, yep, and sometimes ohai just doesn't return some necessary things | 19:53 |
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| xarses | -1 for now, but I'd love to see the ruby replace with python | 19:53 |
| vkozhukalov | #topic Moving fuel-web/fuelmenu into fuel-library | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Moving fuel-web/fuelmenu into fuel-library (Meeting topic: Fuel)" | 19:53 | |
| mihgen | such as scalability of nailgun for exmaple | 19:53 |
| e0ne | angdraug, +1 | 19:53 |
| mihgen | so -1 on research | 19:53 |
| angdraug | mihgen: +1 :p | 19:53 |
| vkozhukalov | fuelmenu does not work w/o puppet modules | 19:53 |
| angdraug | I'd like us exploring the ipmi/snmp discovery tools from compass first | 19:53 |
| mihgen | ok fuel menu relies on code from fuel-library | 19:53 |
| mattymo| | Fuelmenu only configures fuelweb | 19:53 |
| e0ne | vkozhukalov: why to fuel-lib, not to a separate repo? | 19:54 |
| mattymo| | Not library | 19:54 |
| evgeniyl` | -1 i think it should be moved to fuel-main because it's more about iso | 19:54 |
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| angdraug | evgeniyl`: +1 | 19:54 |
| mattymo| | But it should be separate if anything or in main | 19:54 |
| mihgen | what's the benefit from being in fuel-main? | 19:54 |
| vkozhukalov | fuel-main is just a bunch of build scripts | 19:55 |
| e0ne | it is not related nor -web, nor -library | 19:55 |
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| angdraug | evgeniyl`: 0 (changed my mind) | 19:55 |
| evgeniyl` | vkozhukalov: fuel-library is a bunch of puppet manifests | 19:55 |
| mihgen | fuel-menu heavily relies on fuel-library | 19:55 |
| xarses | fuel-menu should be in library more than main, at least the puppet it needs is in there | 19:55 |
| e0ne | let's move to a new separate repo | 19:55 |
| mihgen | at this moment .. | 19:55 |
| vkozhukalov | #startvote for moving fuelmenu into separate repo | 19:55 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 19:55 |
| mihgen | -1 on that | 19:56 |
| mattymo| | -1 | 19:56 |
| vkozhukalov | -1 for separate repo | 19:56 |
| e0ne | +1 | 19:56 |
| angdraug | -1 | 19:56 |
| nmarkov | +1 | 19:56 |
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| evgeniyl` | -1 | 19:56 |
| xarses | -1 | 19:56 |
| angdraug | -1 on repo proliferation in general | 19:56 |
| vkozhukalov | #startvote for moving fuelmenu into fuel-library | 19:56 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 19:56 |
| AndreyDanin_ | #startvote Do we want to move fuelmenu into separate repo? Yes, No, Maybe | 19:56 |
| openstack | Only the meeting chair may start a vote. | 19:56 |
| xarses | angdraug: +1 | 19:56 |
| mihgen | Yes | 19:56 |
| nmarkov | +1 | 19:56 |
| mihgen | (+1) | 19:56 |
| vkozhukalov | +1 | 19:56 |
| xarses | +1 | 19:56 |
| nmarkov | #vote Yes | 19:56 |
| mattymo| | -1 | 19:57 |
| e0ne | yes | 19:57 |
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| mihgen | e0ne: how can you vote the same? | 19:57 |
| vkozhukalov | we need to read manual about meetings ))) | 19:57 |
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| evgeniyl` | :) | 19:57 |
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| angdraug | vkozhukalov: just resend what AndreyDanin_ proposed ) | 19:57 |
| vkozhukalov | ok, guys looks like we have just a couple of minutes | 19:57 |
| mihgen | I think we need to close now | 19:58 |
| xarses | angdraug: agreed, we have more than enough repos to confuse everyone as it is | 19:58 |
| mihgen | and move other stuff to next meeting.. | 19:58 |
| e0ne | mihgen: what do you mean? | 19:58 |
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| mihgen | e0ne: you voted for separated repo and then said Yes for fuel-library | 19:58 |
| vkozhukalov | yes, let's go away and continute our discussion somewhere else | 19:58 |
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| mihgen | > xarses: angdraug: agreed, we have more than enough repos to confuse everyone as it is <- so true | 19:59 |
| nmarkov | let's wrap up little by little | 19:59 |
| vkozhukalov | unfortunately we had too large agenda | 19:59 |
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| e0ne | it was my fail with 'yes for fuel-lib' | 19:59 |
| mihgen | we can do in fuel-dev... | 19:59 |
| mihgen | end meeting pls | 19:59 |
| vkozhukalov | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "storage backends (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 27 19:59:33 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2014/fuel.2014-02-27-19.00.html | 19:59 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2014/fuel.2014-02-27-19.00.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/fuel/2014/fuel.2014-02-27-19.00.log.html | 19:59 |
| nmarkov | mihgen, he doesn't give a damn, just move it out from fuel-web :) | 19:59 |
| harlowja | #startmeeting openstack-state-management | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 27 20:00:09 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is harlowja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_state_management' | 20:00 |
| harlowja | hi folks, anyone interested in meeting today :) | 20:00 |
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| harlowja | agenda @ http://tinyurl.com/a52eyhe | 20:00 |
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| iv_m | hi there | 20:01 |
| harlowja | hi hi | 20:01 |
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| changbl | hello | 20:02 |
| harlowja | hi changbl | 20:02 |
| iv_m | hi changbl | 20:02 |
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| harlowja | how's it going folks | 20:03 |
| iv_m | it goes, which means it's not bad | 20:03 |
| changbl | not bad, filed a travel request to go to atlanta openstack summit | 20:03 |
| harlowja | changbl cool | 20:04 |
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| harlowja | i beleive anastaisa is skiing so, she'll i guess miss out on the fun | 20:04 |
| iv_m | ya, she's on vacations until monday | 20:04 |
| harlowja | k | 20:05 |
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| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/StateManagement#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 20:05 |
| harlowja | sooo lets see here, likely can be a quick one :) | 20:05 |
| harlowja | #topic last-action-items | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "last-action-items (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)" | 20:05 | |
| harlowja | i don't there were any right? | 20:05 |
| harlowja | i had a good vacation :-P | 20:06 |
| harlowja | skiing also, lol | 20:06 |
| iv_m | #nick akarpinska | 20:06 |
| iv_m | #action akarpinska have good vacation and get back l) | 20:07 |
| harlowja | +1 | 20:07 |
| harlowja | no vote needed, ha | 20:07 |
| harlowja | #topic 0.2 | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "0.2 (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)" | 20:07 | |
| harlowja | so for this one, zookeeper stuff went in, so that means newness, worker stuff went in (i've been messing around with it) | 20:07 |
| harlowja | and i think once anastaisia gets back the retry/redo/ controlling stuff will go in | 20:08 |
| harlowja | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TaskFlow-0.2.0 | 20:08 |
| harlowja | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/TaskFlow-0.2.0 | 20:08 |
| harlowja | i am thinking we could do a ML post for each one of these features, explaning it, summarizing it, showing example | 20:08 |
| harlowja | what do u guys think | 20:08 |
| harlowja | i beleive they are cool enough to each have its own neat post | 20:08 |
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| changbl | sounds good | 20:09 |
| iv_m | +1 | 20:09 |
| harlowja | might as well inform everyone of the awesomeness, lol | 20:09 |
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| harlowja | what else, i think there are a few fixes/adjustments that are going through the pipeline right now | 20:10 |
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| harlowja | iv_m do u think stanislav will have the ability to have the engine inquire what the workers have for 'capabilities' for 0.2, or maybe later? | 20:11 |
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| harlowja | thats the only pain that i saw right now | 20:11 |
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| iv_m | that depends on what design decisions we finally come to | 20:12 |
| harlowja | k | 20:12 |
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| iv_m | he already have some simple code that works | 20:12 |
| iv_m | *has | 20:12 |
| harlowja | i guess post 0.2 then? | 20:12 |
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| harlowja | 0.2.1 or something | 20:12 |
| harlowja | lets do that i think, doesn't seem like its critical for 0.2 | 20:13 |
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| iv_m | yes, it does not look critical | 20:14 |
| harlowja | changbl i can give u a simple MQ example if u want to try it, sorta neat | 20:14 |
| iv_m | let's see if we can finish that in time for 0.2.0, but if we will not that's ok | 20:15 |
| harlowja | http://paste.openstack.org/show/70354/ was one that i was messing around with :) | 20:15 |
| changbl | harlowja, MQ example? | 20:15 |
| harlowja | *sorry worker example (which uses a MQ) | 20:15 |
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| harlowja | if u want to try it out | 20:16 |
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| changbl | i am fine. why don't you put it under examples? | 20:16 |
| changbl | examples/ | 20:17 |
| harlowja | changbl will likely do that :) | 20:17 |
| iv_m | we also have pretty nice examples in master | 20:17 |
| iv_m | https://github.com/openstack/taskflow/tree/master/taskflow/examples/worker_based | 20:17 |
| harlowja | yup, some other ones | 20:17 |
| harlowja | iv_m i can startup a little ML post about the worker stuff, maybe all of us can adjust it and then can finally send it | 20:17 |
| iv_m | they can use mq with proper cmdline arguments | 20:17 |
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| iv_m | harlowja, sounds good | 20:18 |
| harlowja | cool | 20:18 |
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| harlowja | #action harlowja draft ML post for workers and jobboard | 20:18 |
| harlowja | k, lets see, guess we'll aim for 0.2 in a short while | 20:19 |
| harlowja | after anastasia gets back, get that stuff in, then decide | 20:19 |
| harlowja | alright , next hoepfully quick topic | 20:19 |
| harlowja | #topic oslo-meetings | 20:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "oslo-meetings (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)" | 20:19 | |
| harlowja | so i'm gonna try to attend the oslo IRC meeting tommorow, see how that goes | 20:19 |
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| harlowja | i am still wondering (i think we talked about it before) about if we should just join that meeting | 20:20 |
| harlowja | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Oslo_Team_meeting | 20:20 |
| harlowja | chair is dhellmann not mark | 20:20 |
| iv_m | it's a pitty that i can't attend oslo meetings | 20:20 |
| harlowja | ya, 1400 utc will be tough for me also :-P | 20:20 |
| harlowja | will see if i can remember to wakeup, lol | 20:21 |
| harlowja | i'll report back, maybe just useful to collapse these 2 meetings since our meeting doesn't usually last to long | 20:22 |
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| harlowja | our updates haven't been to big, i think oslo irc is more of like a on-demand meeting anyway | 20:22 |
| harlowja | anyways, lets see | 20:22 |
| harlowja | #action harlowja report back on oslo! | 20:23 |
| harlowja | #topic 0.3 | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "0.3 (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)" | 20:23 | |
| harlowja | so this one is an interesting one | 20:23 |
| harlowja | it seems like we are realitevly stabilizing | 20:24 |
| harlowja | but i could see the lock management feature being useful in 0.3 | 20:24 |
| harlowja | if we want to do that of course | 20:24 |
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| harlowja | or instead of 0.3 we can just all spend lots of time integrating | 20:24 |
| harlowja | and evangelizing... | 20:25 |
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| harlowja | what do u guys think? | 20:25 |
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| changbl | can you say more on the lock management feature? | 20:26 |
| harlowja | sure, so i think in a simple explanation, cinder, especially has resources that they don't want to be simulatenously worked on by workflows | 20:27 |
| harlowja | so an idea i had was to allow for someway to specify that a task/flow acquires and releases locks on given resources before executing | 20:27 |
| harlowja | which then creates a need for some type of lock management system | 20:28 |
| harlowja | now idk if https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71167/ is the right way to go, but it could be | 20:28 |
| iv_m | as for 0.3, i think we can have 0.2.x releases as new features come in, until we'll need to do a really big breaking change -- and i'm not currently seeing any big breaking changes coming after Anastasia's work gets in | 20:29 |
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| changbl | cinder right now use file as lock, so if cinder want to use taskflow's lock manager, will that change a lot of cinder's code? | 20:30 |
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| harlowja | changbl i am hoping it doesn't change alot, i would expect our lock manager to also be compatible with file locks if we see this is the way to achieve compatiblity until something better (zookeeper locks) can be used | 20:31 |
| harlowja | iv_m the only change that could cause issues is if we want to rename taskdetails to atomdetails, or do more restructuring around that code | 20:32 |
| changbl | i hope it won't change too much of existing openstack code | 20:32 |
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| changbl | btw, how is the integration process with cinder, nova, etc? i feel taskflow is being more and more mature, but the integration process is slow | 20:32 |
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| harlowja | yup, integration is always slow | 20:33 |
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| harlowja | i think it could require more people to help integration, of course, i'll do it also when i can, it just requires lots of slow work :) | 20:33 |
| harlowja | and stamina, lol | 20:34 |
| harlowja | and communication.... | 20:34 |
| changbl | harlowja, let me know if you need help on integration work, i can help a bit | 20:34 |
| harlowja | sure, where do u want to tackle changbl ;) | 20:34 |
| changbl | impl | 20:35 |
| changbl | cinder? or nova ? | 20:35 |
| harlowja | i think there was some nova work, but it appears to have stalled (not enough time from nova folks to review it, or look at it) | 20:35 |
| harlowja | changbl cinder is a good idea | 20:35 |
| harlowja | changbl i think when anastaisia gets back we can all get an update from her on current status of that | 20:35 |
| harlowja | and can maybe all jump-in there | 20:36 |
| changbl | harlowja, ok | 20:36 |
| harlowja | cool, lets do that | 20:36 |
| harlowja | iv_m sound reasonable? do u know if alex is still fighting the nova fight? | 20:36 |
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| iv_m | at least he's not planning to give up | 20:37 |
| harlowja | changbl lets get a dump from alex on how thats going i guess also | 20:37 |
| changbl | harlowja, one thing is that demand always drives supply, so while the integration goes on, we can have more feedback and ideas on how to improve taskflow, instead of developing it alone separately on our own. | 20:38 |
| harlowja | seems good to figure out how its all going from everyone | 20:38 |
| harlowja | changbl agreed, i think we are at a good state for that | 20:38 |
| changbl | harlowja, ok | 20:38 |
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| harlowja | iv_m cool, lets get everyone together outside meeting and see if we can have a mini-meeting about the current integration, what/how/where/help needed... and see how we can all help out | 20:38 |
| harlowja | and then fix all the things :-P | 20:39 |
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| harlowja | changbl i think the cinder folks are this week having a hangout session as there mid-cycle meetup, i dropped in, should probably drop in again | 20:40 |
| harlowja | jgriffith the hangout is still happening right? | 20:40 |
| changbl | harlowja, hope we can get more feedback from them. | 20:40 |
| harlowja | sure, they were deep into driver stuff when i joined :-P | 20:41 |
| jgriffith | harlowja: yesterday was last day IIRC | 20:41 |
| harlowja | oh noes, lol | 20:41 |
| harlowja | crap | 20:41 |
| jgriffith | 24-26 | 20:41 |
| harlowja | kk, np | 20:41 |
| jgriffith | or else I"m just MIA :) | 20:41 |
| harlowja | ;) | 20:41 |
| harlowja | jgriffith anyways, just to catch u up, think we are going to regroup a little, figure out cinder work + taskflow, seem how we can all help here, and get in touch with u guys :) | 20:42 |
| harlowja | i think thingee will be in sunnyvale y! next week so can chat with him to | 20:42 |
| * harlowja we are hosting tripleo/ironic meetup | 20:42 | |
| jgriffith | harlowja: sounds good | 20:42 |
| harlowja | we == y! | 20:42 |
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| harlowja | cool beans, thx jgriffith | 20:43 |
| jgriffith | harlowja: my pleasure ;) | 20:43 |
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| harlowja | k, lets see if anything else left to open-dicuss about | 20:43 |
| harlowja | #topic open-discuss | 20:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-discuss (Meeting topic: openstack-state-management)" | 20:44 | |
| harlowja | if not can end short | 20:44 |
| iv_m | i have couple of new blueprints i want to mention | 20:44 |
| harlowja | changbl thx for bringing focus back on integration, needs to happen more than it is :) | 20:44 |
| harlowja | iv_m cool, whats up | 20:44 |
| changbl | harlowja, np | 20:45 |
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| iv_m | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/taskflow/+spec/persistence-uris is the first one, just a small neat feature | 20:45 |
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| harlowja | ah, iv_m seems like a nice helper to allow that | 20:47 |
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| harlowja | the conf thing can be a pain to have to make dicts :-P | 20:47 |
| iv_m | if u agree it worth having please approve and i'll implement that real quick ;) | 20:48 |
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| harlowja | k | 20:48 |
| harlowja | ok dokie | 20:48 |
| harlowja | pressed the appropriate buttons, lol | 20:48 |
| iv_m | thx harlowja | 20:48 |
| harlowja | ;) np | 20:48 |
| iv_m | also, we now have docs published under openstack manuals | 20:49 |
| iv_m | #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/taskflow/ <-- here | 20:49 |
| harlowja | oh ya, woot | 20:49 |
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| iv_m | and #link http://docs.openstack.org/developer/openstack-projects.html has a link there | 20:49 |
| harlowja | nice | 20:49 |
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| harlowja | +2 | 20:49 |
| harlowja | iv_m the developer docs come from https://github.com/openstack/taskflow/tree/master/doc/source right? | 20:50 |
| harlowja | or do they come from the code, or both? | 20:50 |
| changbl | nice, +2 | 20:50 |
| harlowja | seems like https://github.com/openstack/taskflow/tree/master/doc/source is sorta empty files, but then they get populated? | 20:50 |
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| iv_m | u mention module or class or whatever in https://github.com/openstack/taskflow/tree/master/doc/source via special macros, and then sphinx does its magic to generate some stuff from code and docstrings | 20:51 |
| harlowja | kk, i'll have to look into that | 20:51 |
| iv_m | also, some words in addition to reference will be nice to have | 20:52 |
| harlowja | is there a tool that generates those special macro files, i was thinking something like javadoc which generates the whole thing, not needing special macro files | 20:52 |
| harlowja | but i guess this is just sphinx stuff | 20:53 |
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| iv_m | you can generate the reference for the whole taskflow modules recursively, but i think the result is a but ugly and hardly usable | 20:54 |
| harlowja | k, np | 20:54 |
| * harlowja not sure what the best approach is | 20:54 | |
| harlowja | seems like no matter is a good oppurtunity to shift around our docs if we want | 20:54 |
| harlowja | some of https://wiki.openstack.org/TaskFlow could probably be in developer docs and vice-versa | 20:54 |
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| iv_m | .. so we (me and a-gorodnev) decided that it's better to hand-pick some modules and/or classes and organise them into nice docs structure | 20:55 |
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| harlowja | all good, looking at other developer docs there, it doesn't seem like there is agreement on what should/shouldn't be there | 20:56 |
| iv_m | for farther sphinx docs improvements, i filed a bp #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/taskflow/+spec/sphinx-docs | 20:56 |
| harlowja | ah, thx iv_m | 20:56 |
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| harlowja | wondering how much we should move over though | 20:56 |
| harlowja | k, will look over bp | 20:56 |
| harlowja | iv_m i guess we can close https://blueprints.launchpad.net/taskflow/+spec/distributed-celery now i think to | 20:57 |
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| harlowja | ole celery | 20:57 |
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| harlowja | anyways, anything else, times almost up? | 20:58 |
| iv_m | not from me | 20:59 |
| changbl | i am fine | 20:59 |
| harlowja | cool, thx iv_m changbl | 20:59 |
| harlowja | lets regroup maybe tuesday after anatstasia gets back and we can chat with all the involved folks about integration | 20:59 |
| harlowja | see if we can find a common time to do so | 20:59 |
| harlowja | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "storage backends (Meeting topic: swift)" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 27 20:59:52 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_state_management/2014/openstack_state_management.2014-02-27-20.00.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_state_management/2014/openstack_state_management.2014-02-27-20.00.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_state_management/2014/openstack_state_management.2014-02-27-20.00.log.html | 20:59 |
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| * russellb waits one more minute | 21:00 | |
| mriedem | hi | 21:01 |
| hartsocks | \o | 21:01 |
| mikal | . | 21:01 |
| n0ano | o/ | 21:01 |
| cyeoh | hi | 21:01 |
| russellb | #startmeeting nova | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Feb 27 21:01:25 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is russellb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova' | 21:01 |
| jog0 | o/ | 21:01 |
| russellb | hi! | 21:01 |
| mriedem | hi | 21:01 |
| mriedem | again | 21:01 |
| beagles | o/ | 21:01 |
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| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova | 21:01 |
| alaski | o/ | 21:01 |
| dansmith | yo | 21:01 |
| mrda | \o | 21:01 |
| dripton | hi | 21:01 |
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| dkliban | hi | 21:01 |
| melwitt | hi | 21:01 |
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| russellb | #topic general | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "general (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:02 | |
| russellb | biggest thing today is icehouse-3 and feature freeze | 21:02 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule | 21:02 |
| russellb | feature freeze this coming tuesday | 21:02 |
| russellb | after that blueprints will require a feature freeze exception | 21:02 |
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| russellb | we can discuss individual blueprints in a little bit | 21:03 |
| russellb | #topic sub-teams | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "sub-teams (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:03 | |
| russellb | any sub-team reports for today? | 21:03 |
| * n0ano gantt | 21:03 | |
| russellb | xenapi testing is running! | 21:03 |
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| russellb | n0ano: ok what's up | 21:03 |
| * melwitt novaclient | 21:04 | |
| n0ano | talked a lot about plan B for the gantt forklift (basically clean things up in the current nova tree so that a split becomes doable) | 21:04 |
| n0ano | details are in the etherpad at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-external-scheduler | 21:04 |
| russellb | cool | 21:04 |
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| n0ano | obviously we won't be ready for icehouse but juno is in our sights | 21:04 |
| jog0 | what should we do with the current gantt repo? | 21:04 |
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| russellb | n0ano seemed interested in continuing to play with it | 21:05 |
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| n0ano | jog0, I'd like to keep it, it'll be re-created when we're ready to do the real split | 21:05 |
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| n0ano | but it's a good testing ground for now | 21:05 |
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| jog0 | so keeping it with nova core has a potential cost to it | 21:05 |
| jog0 | re: nova cores should be reviewing it | 21:05 |
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| russellb | since we know it's going to get re-done later, we could change the reviewers | 21:06 |
| russellb | thoughts? | 21:06 |
| russellb | i'm kind of keen to get it moved to stackforge first if we're going to open up the review team though | 21:06 |
| n0ano | jog0, not sure what your concern is, should we just remove nova core from the reviewers and add those that are actively working on gantt for now | 21:06 |
| jog0 | I think we should move it to stackforge and open up the team, but that has never been done before | 21:06 |
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| jog0 | n0ano: something like that | 21:06 |
| jog0 | yes | 21:06 |
| russellb | n0ano: i'm happy to add whoever you'd like if you want to drive getting it moved to stackforge | 21:06 |
| sdague | jog0: well the issue on the move is it requires gerrit downtime | 21:07 |
| n0ano | works for me, if we change the reviewers should we just leave the repo where it is? | 21:07 |
| sdague | and if it's going to come back later, it's just 2 saturdays you are making the infra team work | 21:07 |
| dansmith | that would make it for a total of three, right? | 21:07 |
| dansmith | given the one they already did to get it in there? :) | 21:08 |
| sdague | yep | 21:08 |
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| russellb | sdague: yeah, could wait until they're having to do it anyway for something else | 21:08 |
| jog0 | russellb: ++ | 21:08 |
| russellb | say, if barbican gets incubated | 21:08 |
| russellb | which we're reviewing this coming tuesday | 21:09 |
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| sdague | you can change the review team without moving the repo | 21:09 |
| russellb | yes but i'm saying i want to move it before changing the review team | 21:09 |
| jog0 | I don't think we want the repo under the nova umbrella for now | 21:09 |
| dansmith | there's no harm in just doing it when the next opportunity arises right? | 21:09 |
| russellb | i'm being a control freak as long as it's still under the compute program :-) | 21:09 |
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| sdague | russellb: right, but it can kick out of compute without moving out of openstack, but we can probably take that offline | 21:10 |
| n0ano | maybe we should continue this via email, I'm not sure what all the implications are right now | 21:10 |
| russellb | i guess, but let's just slip this in the next time renames are being done anyway | 21:10 |
| russellb | melwitt: how's novaclient looking | 21:11 |
| melwitt | the biweekly novaclient report 2014/2/27: | 21:11 |
| melwitt | open bugs, 162 !fix released, 98 !fix released and !fix committed | 21:11 |
| melwitt | 30 new bugs, 0 high bugs | 21:11 |
| melwitt | 30 patches up, 6 are WIP, reviews have all been updated within the last 7 days | 21:11 |
| russellb | i pushed a novaclient release yesterday | 21:12 |
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| russellb | so we should be on the lookout for any regressions | 21:12 |
| melwitt | noted | 21:12 |
| russellb | any bugs worth noting specifically? | 21:12 |
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| russellb | melwitt: also, tjones started a nova bug team / meeting. you could consider joining that meeting and getting novaclient bugs on the team's radar, too | 21:13 |
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| melwitt | no bugs worth noting specifically | 21:14 |
| russellb | ok | 21:14 |
| russellb | #topic bugs | 21:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:14 | |
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| russellb | speaking of tjones ... o/ | 21:14 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NovaBugScrub | 21:14 |
| tjones | russellb: hi | 21:15 |
| russellb | i believe this team had their first meeting yesterday? | 21:15 |
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| tjones | yes we did (tues) - we focused on tagging the untagged bugs | 21:15 |
| russellb | tjones: i was just mentioning to melwitt, who has been looking after novaclient bugs, that she may want to join this meeting too. the group may be interested in the novaclient bugs | 21:15 |
| tjones | got a fair ways through. wendar was nice enough to clean up the tags and owner table. but we still need a bunch of owners. particualry the hypervisors | 21:16 |
| tjones | great - glad to have her | 21:16 |
| russellb | cool, sounds like a good first meeting then | 21:16 |
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| tjones | yes i think so. once we have more owner coverage i think the triage will go much better | 21:16 |
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| russellb | cool, definitely don't consider the owner list current | 21:16 |
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| russellb | judge based on bugs actually triaged :-) | 21:17 |
| russellb | anything you wanted to discuss in meeting today?\ | 21:17 |
| tjones | yes that is big problem. i was thinking to send out something on the ML to get this updated | 21:17 |
| tjones | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Nova/BugTriage | 21:17 |
| tjones | unless you have a better idea | 21:17 |
| russellb | nope not really | 21:17 |
| * dansmith updates for objects | 21:18 | |
| dkliban | i would like to discuss https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/convert-image-meta-into-nova-object | 21:18 |
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| russellb | dkliban: blueprints up next | 21:18 |
| dkliban | russellb, k | 21:18 |
| russellb | tjones: anything else for today? | 21:18 |
| mriedem | tjones: reach out to alexpilotti for hyperv | 21:18 |
| mriedem | and ewindisch for docker i think | 21:19 |
| russellb | yep ^^ | 21:19 |
| russellb | maybe zul for lxc | 21:19 |
| tjones | great thanks! no just chasing owners and then hassling them to triage | 21:19 |
| ewindisch | pong | 21:19 |
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| dansmith | oh, unified-objects is on there, nevermind | 21:19 |
| russellb | scheduler sub-team folks / n0ano for scheduler | 21:19 |
| russellb | dansmith: heh was wondering what update you were making | 21:19 |
| dansmith | russellb: expected objects instead of unified-objects | 21:20 |
| russellb | #topic blueprints | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:20 | |
| russellb | alright, feature freeze in a few days | 21:20 |
| russellb | dkliban: k, you're up | 21:20 |
| n0ano | I have a couple of BPs I've been asked to push | 21:20 |
| dkliban | i've been working on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/convert-image-meta-into-nova-object | 21:20 |
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| dkliban | i am getting close, but i am worried it won't be merged till after 4th | 21:21 |
| dansmith | so, I think this is important because it's a cleanup thing that needs to go in so it can soak for a while before we deprecate old tags, | 21:21 |
| russellb | sooo | 21:21 |
| russellb | that one isn't even approved | 21:21 |
| dansmith | or at least, get people using the new ones sooner | 21:21 |
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| dkliban | russellb, can you approve it? | 21:22 |
| russellb | how close to freeze will it be ready | 21:22 |
| russellb | dkliban: maybe :) | 21:22 |
| dansmith | oops...I thought it was already approved | 21:22 |
| russellb | if dansmith is going to help you drive it, i'm ok with it | 21:22 |
| dkliban | dansmith has been helping me. danpb has been giving input. | 21:22 |
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| dkliban | so then that brings me to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/add-ability-to-pass-driver-meta-when-starting-instance | 21:23 |
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| dkliban | i wrote a patch earlier that stored the new meta data in the database. it was decided that we don't want to store any extra data. | 21:23 |
| dansmith | ah I see, the above one is just a dependency of this one | 21:24 |
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| dkliban | i would like to use the new VirtProperties object to store the new meta | 21:24 |
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| * russellb adds blueprint dependency | 21:24 | |
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| yjiang5 | russellb: so a BP proposed in 02/17 and started in 2-25 still ok? sigh. | 21:24 |
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| russellb | yjiang5: not all blueprints are of equal size/complexity | 21:25 |
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| yjiang5 | russellb: :) | 21:25 |
| russellb | this one isn't very big, and has a sponsor | 21:25 |
| dansmith | and this was started in january | 21:25 |
| dansmith | the dependent blueprint came out of review | 21:25 |
| russellb | k, well keep pushing as hard as you can | 21:26 |
| russellb | further it goes, less likely we will approve exceptions | 21:26 |
| russellb | no guarantees | 21:26 |
| dkliban | i am trying to do it by the 4th. i just wanted to warn you that i might be a couple of days late. | 21:26 |
| russellb | ok | 21:27 |
| russellb | any more than a couple days will probably be too late IMO | 21:27 |
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| dansmith | dkliban: I can probably help write actual code for this tomorrow, so lets sync up and sprint for a bit and see how close we can get it | 21:27 |
| dkliban | dansmith, thanks. | 21:27 |
| dkliban | lets talk after this meeting | 21:27 |
| russellb | ok, other blueprints? | 21:28 |
| dansmith | events | 21:28 |
| dansmith | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:bp/admin-event-callback-api,n,z | 21:28 |
| dansmith | definitely need some review on that stuff if it's going to land | 21:28 |
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| dansmith | got some good api feedback from cyeoh and others, but the core bits definitely need some eyes | 21:28 |
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| russellb | yeah ... risky stuff to be doing after freeze | 21:28 |
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| n0ano | we have 2 scheduler related BPs, targeted for Icehouse-3 that need core reviews: | 21:29 |
| dansmith | we have support on the neutron side, so it would really suck to not get this in, | 21:29 |
| dansmith | and only ever race to boot guests for another cycle :( | 21:29 |
| * russellb nods | 21:29 | |
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| russellb | could argue that this is a bug fix, really | 21:29 |
| russellb | so probably ok .. | 21:29 |
| dansmith | yeah, but it's big | 21:29 |
| russellb | right | 21:29 |
| cyeoh | and its an API change | 21:29 |
| dansmith | so earlier is better either way | 21:29 |
| dansmith | and that | 21:29 |
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| russellb | n0ano: which bps | 21:29 |
| n0ano | Solver Scheduler: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/solver-scheduler | 21:29 |
| n0ano | Instance Group API: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/instance-group-api-extension | 21:30 |
| russellb | i've been trying to look at the instance group one when i can | 21:30 |
| russellb | i'd love to finally get that in | 21:30 |
| dansmith | ndipanov had a lot of feedback on the instance-group stuff last I heard | 21:30 |
| n0ano | that's what we're looking for | 21:30 |
| cyeoh | yea I need to have another look at that one too. | 21:30 |
| dansmith | sitting with a -1 and a couple -2s | 21:30 |
| russellb | solver scheduler i don't know the status on | 21:31 |
| jog0 | russellb: btw list of patches for unapprovedd BPS http://pastebin.com/hzB3QwYC | 21:31 |
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| russellb | wow | 21:31 |
| dansmith | n0ano: the v2 extension has an unanswered -1 | 21:31 |
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| mikal | jog0: you've -2'ed all of those, right? | 21:31 |
| jog0 | its not completely accurate so take it with a grain of salt | 21:31 |
| jog0 | mikal: I try | 21:31 |
| jog0 | but there are soo many | 21:31 |
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| n0ano | I'm just the messenger, I'll let Yathi know, that clearly needs to be resolved | 21:32 |
| mikal | nova-network-objects is unapproved? | 21:32 |
| russellb | feel free to -2 away on that list | 21:32 |
| mriedem | cinder v2 support is a relatively small patch and it's close i think, but needs some changes - could use another core with me on it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/43986/ | 21:32 |
| dansmith | russellb: nova-network-objects is on there | 21:32 |
| cyeoh | jog0: and you'll pay for it when Juno opens unless you have a script :-) | 21:32 |
| jog0 | and some like admin-event-callback-api | 21:32 |
| russellb | nova-network-objects already marked implemented | 21:32 |
| dansmith | then maybe we should approve? :) | 21:32 |
| jog0 | I didn't -2 | 21:32 |
| russellb | and approved | 21:32 |
| dansmith | hmm | 21:32 |
| jog0 | make sure to set the direction as approved too | 21:32 |
| jog0 | thats what the script uses | 21:33 |
| russellb | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/nova-network-objects | 21:33 |
| russellb | it is | 21:33 |
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| russellb | there's going to be a big list that doesn't make it due to review bandwidth, unfortunately | 21:33 |
| russellb | sorry :-/ | 21:33 |
| russellb | please don't rage about it, that will make me sad | 21:34 |
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| russellb | #topic open discussion | 21:34 |
| mriedem | delegate the rage | 21:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: nova)" | 21:34 | |
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| russellb | happy to talk more blueprints, or whatever else | 21:34 |
| jog0 | so novaclient reviews | 21:34 |
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| jog0 | it seems like its just 3 or 4 cores who venture over there | 21:34 |
| russellb | melwitt: says they've all been reviewed within the last 7 days | 21:34 |
| jog0 | by only a few people | 21:35 |
| jog0 | it would be good to spread the love | 21:35 |
| russellb | yeah, but maybe that's not a huge deal, as long as we're keeping up | 21:35 |
| russellb | but by all means, the more the merrier .. | 21:35 |
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| jog0 | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/is:open+project:openstack/python-novaclient,n,z | 21:35 |
| jog0 | not all patches are revewed | 21:35 |
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| melwitt | sorry, I didn't mean they were necessarily reviewed but updated (presumably by the author) recently | 21:36 |
| dansmith | reviewed and iterated | 21:36 |
| russellb | but they've been updated within the last few days | 21:36 |
| dansmith | yeah | 21:36 |
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| jog0 | anyway no its not a big deal at all, this is more of don't forget that python-novaclient exists too | 21:36 |
| russellb | :) | 21:36 |
| russellb | novaclient needs love too | 21:36 |
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| russellb | will do one more novaclient release around icehouse time to catch whatever other bug fixes or features we land between now and then | 21:37 |
| dansmith | we will need it for events before neutron can apply their patch I think | 21:37 |
| dansmith | I think it has to go nova backend, api, client, neutron, libvirt | 21:38 |
| russellb | testing not against novaclient master? | 21:38 |
| russellb | anyway, it's super easy to cut a release | 21:38 |
| cyeoh | I don't think we test against client masters | 21:38 |
| dansmith | they have to be confident that there will be a release before theirs I think | 21:38 |
| russellb | ah | 21:38 |
| russellb | k | 21:38 |
| russellb | well whenever | 21:38 |
| russellb | it's literally just .... $ git tag -s <version> ; git push --tags gerrit | 21:39 |
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| russellb | freaking magic | 21:39 |
| dripton | you also have to send an email | 21:40 |
| russellb | heh, yes, ideally | 21:40 |
| russellb | anything else for today? | 21:40 |
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| cyeoh | so I don't know if its worth talk about the v3 or not? | 21:40 |
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| cyeoh | but I'd like suggestions on how to resolve it one way or another | 21:41 |
| mikal | Do we have time | 21:41 |
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| mikal | That might take a while | 21:41 |
| ewindisch | russellb: should I just sync with tjones on the docker ci work? | 21:41 |
| mikal | Although I agree it needs a decision | 21:41 |
| cyeoh | mikal: probably not, but whenever are we going to get the time | 21:41 |
| russellb | ewindisch: the mention in that section of the meeting was about talking to you about owning docker bug triage | 21:41 |
| ewindisch | ah | 21:41 |
| jog0 | russellb: speaking of CI what aobut the CI and drivers for Icehouse? | 21:41 |
| cyeoh | mikal: and I don't want to waste even more time/resources if its never going to get anywhere | 21:41 |
| jog0 | deadlines aetc | 21:42 |
| jog0 | etc* | 21:42 |
| mikal | jog0: I have some terrible reporting which isn't ready yet | 21:42 |
| dansmith | jog0: I think we're good for everyone except docker, right? | 21:42 |
| jog0 | for mikalVirtDirver? | 21:42 |
| mikal | jog0: its harder than it looks | 21:42 |
| dansmith | jog0: xenapi seems to be back online | 21:42 |
| mikal | dansmith: the not-vote rate is quite high for some CI implementations | 21:42 |
| dansmith | mikal: not vote or not report? | 21:42 |
| mikal | dansmith: no comment made | 21:42 |
| dansmith | ah, okay, | 21:43 |
| dansmith | I was looking today and it seemed like we were doing pretty well | 21:43 |
| mikal | dansmith: my initial (possibly wrong) numbers say vmware only comments 67% of the time for instance | 21:43 |
| dansmith | over what interval? | 21:43 |
| mikal | Last 7 days | 21:43 |
| dansmith | okay | 21:43 |
| dansmith | are you going to send a report or something? | 21:43 |
| mikal | But like I said, its actually fiddly | 21:43 |
| jog0 | can anyone else view http://ca.downloads.xensource.com/OpenStack/xenserver-ci/refs/changes/35/75535/1/testr_results.html.gz | 21:43 |
| mikal | Yeah, I need to finish it first | 21:43 |
| dansmith | okay, that would be good | 21:43 |
| ewindisch | dansmith: we're doing pretty good with docker, but it's just a matter of making the remaining 20-30 failing tests pass... I've got patches out for some, but a few are ... odd | 21:43 |
| russellb | also wonder how often a patch gets another revision before it had time to run | 21:43 |
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| mikal | Its on my todo list, hopefully finished early next week | 21:43 |
| dansmith | ewindisch: really? I haven't seen a docker one in a while | 21:44 |
| tjones | ewindisch: lets sync over in openstack-nova after this meeting on docker bugs | 21:44 |
| ewindisch | notably I have failures with stuff like uploading to Glance and creating tenants in Keystone that shouldn't have anything to with Docker | 21:44 |
| dripton | jog0: my browser sees it and wants to download the gz file | 21:44 |
| ewindisch | tjones: okay | 21:44 |
| mikal | russellb: that's quite often... I exclude patches which existed for less than 3 hours from reporting | 21:44 |
| mikal | That's where the fiddlyness is | 21:44 |
| russellb | cool | 21:44 |
| mikal | Working out what's a fair review to count | 21:44 |
| jog0 | dripton: ahh mine did too | 21:44 |
| jog0 | just got it open | 21:44 |
| ewindisch | dansmith: I've disabled the reporting for the time being as it's just going to tell you that the tests are failing | 21:44 |
| jog0 | Pass 1932 Skip 135 | 21:44 |
| jog0 | not bad | 21:44 |
| russellb | cyeoh: so, ACK on the importance of v3 discussion progress. honestly, we probably need a bit more time. i need to catch up on the list from my last couple days of travel, too. | 21:44 |
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| jog0 | vs 2020 in gate | 21:45 |
| russellb | cyeoh: lastly, i'm feeling absolutely miserable right now and not sure i can do that topic justice at the moment personally | 21:45 |
| dansmith | ewindisch: okay, well, not reporting or always failing, neither are really helpful | 21:45 |
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| cyeoh | russellb: ok | 21:45 |
| mikal | Next week's meeting will be bad | 21:45 |
| mikal | Because its at the horrible time for AU people | 21:45 |
| mikal | Is it worth having a special v3 only meeting? | 21:45 |
| mikal | This is kind of a big deal | 21:45 |
| russellb | we could do that, sure | 21:45 |
| cyeoh | i'd be fine with that. 1:30am is a bit hard and I'm not so coherent then | 21:46 |
| russellb | or i can turn it over to dansmith cyeoh to discuss some now | 21:46 |
| mikal | Even if we did it in the team channel | 21:46 |
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| dansmith | I feel like we've beat it to death, personally | 21:46 |
| russellb | yeah | 21:47 |
| russellb | i was hoping to get a wide net of feedback / opinions | 21:47 |
| russellb | haven't seen as much as i'd like yet | 21:47 |
| ewindisch | dansmith: well my current code reviews get us about 1/3rd of the way there. Then there is the matter of at least a one non-implemented feature (suspend/resume), and most of the rest seem to be non-Docker issues on the surface. | 21:47 |
| dansmith | I feel like we've got very little support for releasing it in icehouse, and I think that we can justify delaying a larger discussion until the summit since api shouldn't change much between freeze and then, | 21:47 |
| dansmith | IMHO | 21:47 |
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| cyeoh | so I'm still trying to work out what the principal objection is - because the maintenace of the overhead just doesn't seem as big blocker as is suggested | 21:47 |
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| cyeoh | (and I think we can reduce a lot of the overhead of internal changes on the api) | 21:48 |
| jog0 | dansmith: I am not sure I agree with you fully on that. If one of our goals is to move to 1 API as soon as possible | 21:48 |
| ewindisch | 1/3rd of the way there from a baseline of "where we are today" which are about 30 tempest failures, aka 30->20 failures | 21:48 |
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| dansmith | jog0: waiting until summit? | 21:48 |
| jog0 | then holding it in development another cycle has a real overhead | 21:48 |
| jog0 | dansmith: waiting to release until Juno | 21:49 |
| jog0 | that being said I am not saying we should release it in icehouse either | 21:49 |
| jog0 | I am saying both suck | 21:49 |
| dansmith | jog0: I said having the larger discussion at the summit, not 'definitely releasing it in juno' | 21:49 |
| russellb | heh, i think the icehouse decision is done and behind us | 21:49 |
| dansmith | jog0: agreed | 21:49 |
| mikal | Is it fair to make that entire group of devs sit and wait three months? | 21:49 |
| cyeoh | dansmith: so as I mentioned if we are really stuck with v2 forever we should be freezing a lot of the api changes suggested for icehouse | 21:49 |
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| dansmith | jog0: I was just going to say we can wait to have the "what now?" discussion until icehouse, but I really don't want to have two for any longer than we have to, so if that means we have the discussion sooner, then that's fine too | 21:49 |
| russellb | mikal: hopefully those devs would be working on bug fixes during feature freeze right? | 21:50 |
| jog0 | dansmith: what you said | 21:50 |
| russellb | and it's not 3 months :-) | 21:50 |
| * russellb thinks | 21:50 | |
| russellb | ok, 2.5, heh | 21:50 |
| cyeoh | russellb: so some do, but its not really what happens in practice if you want to hit the ground running for juno | 21:50 |
| mikal | russellb: (February now, May then. That's three monthsish) | 21:50 |
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| russellb | i think it's what *should* happen | 21:50 |
| cyeoh | .. and if they're not going to be work on API stuff in Juno, will look for other stuff for them to work on | 21:51 |
| * jog0 is wondering if the ML thread will hit 100 | 21:51 | |
| dansmith | jog0: I hope not :( | 21:51 |
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| mikal | I think the ML thread isn't really helping any more | 21:51 |
| dansmith | agreed, I keep telling myself I'm going to stop replying | 21:51 |
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| russellb | so should we have a meeting on this early next week? | 21:52 |
| russellb | phone call? g+ hangout? | 21:52 |
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| mikal | One question I have is, if we drop v3 in favour or improving v2... Do we have anyone actually signing up to do that v2 work? | 21:52 |
| jog0 | russellb: perhaps right after feature freeze? | 21:52 |
| mikal | russellb: I think we should. | 21:52 |
| dansmith | mikal: do we release a second api if not? | 21:52 |
| jog0 | mikal: good question | 21:52 |
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| dansmith | mikal: that doesn't make sense to me | 21:52 |
| mikal | russellb: and that anything higher bandwidht than email is good | 21:52 |
| mikal | Sorry | 21:53 |
| russellb | irc is our default | 21:53 |
| mikal | What I am saying is if we choose to improve v2 and not release v3 | 21:53 |
| mikal | Who is going to do that work? | 21:53 |
| russellb | but wondering if voice would be better on this | 21:53 |
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| jog0 | would getting some feedback from the likes of jclouds and fog folks help? | 21:53 |
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| dansmith | voice is why I suggested we talk at the summit, | 21:53 |
| dansmith | because it's very high bandwidth, | 21:53 |
| mikal | jog0: well, supporting v3 is a lot of work for people like Rackspace | 21:53 |
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| dansmith | and not much should change between now and then on the api | 21:54 |
| mikal | So, its not likely to happen while there is uncertainty | 21:54 |
| jog0 | everett toes is rax and jclouds | 21:54 |
| mikal | Thus a chicken and egg problem | 21:54 |
| jog0 | toews | 21:54 |
| dansmith | and that way, | 21:54 |
| dansmith | cyeoh can actually hit me if he likes | 21:54 |
| jog0 | mikal: I was more thinking just ask them for general API feedback on which option they like best | 21:54 |
| mikal | Noting that v3 forces some interesting behaviour from deployers that I quite like | 21:54 |
| cyeoh | the uncertainty is a *big* thing | 21:54 |
| mikal | i.e. actually exposing a cinder and glance endpoint | 21:55 |
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| dansmith | mikal: I'm not sure that's really the case | 21:55 |
| russellb | mikal: or will they just continue to only expose v2 ... | 21:55 |
| mikal | dansmith: how so? | 21:56 |
| dansmith | mikal: in fact it could fracture it more | 21:56 |
| russellb | well, of course they will | 21:56 |
| russellb | we'll have a mix of v2 only and v2+v3 | 21:56 |
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| mikal | If v2 is eventually deprecated, then people have to move on supporting v3 | 21:56 |
| cyeoh | and new clouds may just go v3 only | 21:56 |
| dansmith | it's the same problem as having two apis in the first place, we're just forcing their hand or holding them hostage | 21:56 |
| russellb | if we're ok pissing them off by pushing removal before people have actually migrated | 21:56 |
| dansmith | which I just don't think is what we should be doing | 21:56 |
| russellb | right, i'm not ok with forcing it | 21:57 |
| cyeoh | so I don't think we should just rule out compatibility layers either | 21:57 |
| cyeoh | rather than just trying to keep legacy code forever | 21:57 |
| russellb | if the migration doesn't happen naturally based on the new API being compelling, we've failed | 21:57 |
| dansmith | totally | 21:57 |
| russellb | and yeah, i'm interested in some hybrid alternatives | 21:57 |
| mikal | I think we've demonstrated why a meeting next week is a good idea by the way | 21:57 |
| jog0 | lets just adopt a standard API like EC2 ;) | 21:57 |
| cyeoh | russellb: so part of that depends on whether we forver try to backport stuff to V2 too | 21:58 |
| * russellb smacks jog0 | 21:58 | |
| dansmith | I know that the uncertainty sucks, | 21:58 |
| dansmith | but I'm also concerned that I have lots of work to do between now and freeze/summit, etc | 21:58 |
| dansmith | so we need to be really sure that a meeting is going to yield something useful, IMHO | 21:58 |
| dansmith | i.e. and not "another meeting" | 21:58 |
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| russellb | few things that i think would be useful here | 21:58 |
| russellb | 1) concrete feedback from more people on what they expect in terms of of a possible v2 deprecation timeline | 21:59 |
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| russellb | 2) a more concrete proposal for the v2-only option, including policy changes we would make (like around versioning), to make it a good enough API to live with long term | 21:59 |
| russellb | 3) some more concrete ideas presented on whatever could make dual maintenance more palatable | 22:00 |
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| dansmith | we got some pretty good feedback from RAX this morning | 22:00 |
| cyeoh | so I think we really need quantify how much this dual maintenance is too. | 22:00 |
| russellb | so, documenting those sorts of things on etherpads would be helpful | 22:00 |
| russellb | dansmith: oh ok, i haven't seen that yet, very happy to hear that | 22:00 |
| cyeoh | how much more work per change is it? | 22:00 |
| dansmith | to me, | 22:00 |
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| russellb | dansmith: what's the tl;dr | 22:00 |
| dansmith | the dual maintenance is all pain if nobody really wants to use the api | 22:00 |
| dansmith | russellb: apiv3 has no value for them, they are still supporting old-school cloud servers and it's a huge friggin pain | 22:01 |
| cyeoh | dansmith: we have a tonne of new users coming in too | 22:01 |
| dansmith | russellb: customers don't complain about the things apiv3 fixes | 22:01 |
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| russellb | interesting .. | 22:01 |
| dansmith | that's what I gathered from it | 22:01 |
| dansmith | so if we release another, | 22:01 |
| cyeoh | dansmith: I don't think we can ignore them - ~6000 expected for HK, ~9000 for atlanta | 22:01 |
| dansmith | even if the dual maintenance is small for us (I don't think it is), it's still two APIs we're supporting, and I don't know why we're doing it | 22:02 |
| cyeoh | then the majority of users are new users | 22:02 |
| dansmith | if v3 was organized differently, it'd be another story | 22:02 |
| cyeoh | dansmith: because v2 is fragile, and we want to move off of that | 22:02 |
| cyeoh | we actually really do want to drop the old v2 code | 22:02 |
| cyeoh | its not just error prone for users of the api, but us as maintainers of it if we want to make significant changes | 22:03 |
| russellb | well, there's we (devs) want to | 22:03 |
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| russellb | and reality of when we can do it without hurting us as a project | 22:03 |
| russellb | and hence, we're stuck at this juncture | 22:03 |
| russellb | we're out of time for today | 22:03 |
| russellb | thanks everyone | 22:03 |
| russellb | #endmeeting | 22:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "storage backends (Meeting topic: swift)" | 22:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Feb 27 22:03:47 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-02-27-21.01.html | 22:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-02-27-21.01.txt | 22:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova/2014/nova.2014-02-27-21.01.log.html | 22:03 |
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