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| TheWinnerFjk | See this please http://toomanydownloads.x10host.com/?ref=511 | 01:50 |
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| sc68cal | good morning, good afternoon, good evening | 13:57 |
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| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 4 14:00:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 14:00 |
| xuhanp | hello | 14:00 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: hi, how are you? | 14:00 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, I am great. How about you? | 14:00 |
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| sc68cal | Hoping for spring - tired of snow :) | 14:00 |
| baoli | Hi | 14:01 |
| xuhanp | :-) | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | baoli: good morning | 14:01 |
| baoli | sc68cal, good morning to you | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | #info Today is the last day for I-3 | 14:02 |
| xuhanp | yeah. it's kind of sad considering we have so many patches to be reviewed. | 14:02 |
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| sc68cal | Indeed - at the main meeting, there was a huge amount of blueprints that were targeted to I-3 | 14:03 |
| sc68cal | At this point, I am just happy that we have a working sub-team, we've got blueprints that everyone is working towards, and some code in review | 14:04 |
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| sc68cal | There has been discussion of making a feature freeze exception for IPv6 work | 14:04 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, that's great! any luck? | 14:04 |
| baoli | that will be a good news | 14:04 |
| xuhanp | I just hope more core members can review them. Since we don't have one in our team. | 14:05 |
| sc68cal | Yes, so we should make sure that we identify high priority patches for core reviewers | 14:05 |
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| sc68cal | I think the first two patches are xuhanp's that fixes the RA filtering and allows LLAs for routers | 14:05 |
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| xuhanp | I kind of hope I can make another patch based on the discussion with baoli and Randy. | 14:06 |
| xuhanp | but I am not sure if I can make it by today. | 14:06 |
| xuhanp | unit test is killing me | 14:06 |
| sc68cal | No rush - I am not going to try and jam this through | 14:06 |
| sc68cal | More than likely we'd just be scrambling and end up making more mistakes | 14:07 |
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| sc68cal | If we can get a FFE - that's fine, but I think it is important for us to get it right the first time, because we won't get another chance to have a clean slate to work on | 14:07 |
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| sc68cal | So if it slips to J - so be it. | 14:08 |
| baoli | xuhanp, thanks for the good discussion and the good work you did | 14:08 |
| xuhanp | baoli, no problem. your points make a lot of sense to me. | 14:08 |
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| sc68cal | I saw that Randy posted a new patchset and blueprint on the ML | 14:10 |
| sc68cal | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/allow-multiple-subnets-on-gateway-port Allow multiple subnets on gateway port | 14:10 |
| sc68cal | I'm going to go ahead and add it to the wiki- before I forget | 14:10 |
| sc68cal | If everyone could take a moment and update the wiki - that'd be great. | 14:11 |
| sc68cal | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/IPv6 IPv6 wiki | 14:11 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, will do! I actually hope I can ask some questions to Randy but not sure if he will join. | 14:12 |
| baoli | will look at Randy's patch and the wiki sometime this week. | 14:12 |
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| baoli | sc68cal, the wiki looks good at first glance | 14:13 |
| baoli | I don't seem to have permissions to open the links | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | yeah, I believe that Anthony and others did work on it recently | 14:14 |
| xuhanp | I actually have a question about the external network RA if we can discuss it here. | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | sure | 14:14 |
| xuhanp | I am now quite clear about the from openstack dnsmasq and the RA from existing provider network gateway. | 14:15 |
| xuhanp | but I am confused about RA from external network on the router. | 14:15 |
| rtuttle1015 | @xuhan... let's discuss | 14:15 |
| rtuttle1015 | we really want RA from external SP router for learning default route. I'm not convinced we want to use it for SLAAC | 14:15 |
| rtuttle1015 | I'm open for suggestions on that topic | 14:16 |
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| xuhanp | so what if qg-xxxx device sends RA or another device on external network sends RA? | 14:16 |
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| baoli | RA cannot be forwarded, right? | 14:17 |
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| xuhanp | qr and qg are on the same switch, so qr will get the RA, right? | 14:17 |
| baoli | xuhanp, I don't think so | 14:18 |
| rtuttle1015 | that's a good point. we might want security to prevent untrusted RAs | 14:18 |
| rtuttle1015 | we set qr to ignore RA | 14:18 |
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| rtuttle1015 | or more specifically, we don't learn default route from RA on qr- interface | 14:18 |
| xuhanp | yeah. I am not sure what rules are there for network node. | 14:18 |
| rtuttle1015 | yes... it is coded that way (new code) | 14:18 |
| rtuttle1015 | in Shixiong's code, when internal network is added, we set learning default route from RA off | 14:19 |
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| rtuttle1015 | so default route is only learned from SP on external network | 14:19 |
| rtuttle1015 | this is the intent | 14:20 |
| xuhanp | rtuttle1015, what is SP ? | 14:20 |
| rtuttle1015 | sorry... Service Provider | 14:20 |
| baoli | rtuttle1015, my question is that should a router forward a RA received on one link to other links on the same router? | 14:20 |
| rtuttle1015 | not sure.... for now, I don't think so | 14:21 |
| baoli | that's right. So a RA received from qgxxx can't be forwarded to qrxxx links | 14:21 |
| haleyb | baoli: RAs are not forwarded by routers | 14:21 |
| rtuttle1015 | agreed!! | 14:21 |
| haleyb | RAs are generated by routers | 14:22 |
| baoli | we talked about prefix delegation in the SP case | 14:22 |
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| rtuttle1015 | @baoli: so you mean get RA from SP router with prefix, and use that for tenant networks, correct? | 14:24 |
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| sc68cal | +1 - PD for tenant networks would be great | 14:25 |
| rtuttle1015 | so we'd need to integrate with the dnsmasq efforts for defining internal networks | 14:25 |
| baoli | rtutlle1015, yes. the router can delegate prefixes from SP. | 14:25 |
| rtuttle1015 | yes | 14:25 |
| rtuttle1015 | so we're talking post-I3, right | 14:25 |
| sc68cal | defintely | 14:25 |
| rtuttle1015 | :D | 14:25 |
| rtuttle1015 | so do we need a new BP for this?? | 14:26 |
| rtuttle1015 | ...or a series of them | 14:26 |
| sc68cal | probably a series | 14:26 |
| xuhanp | +1 for new blueprints | 14:27 |
| sc68cal | but let's just crawl before we start doing marathons :) | 14:27 |
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| rtuttle1015 | yup | 14:27 |
| sc68cal | We'll also have to tinker with the API again | 14:27 |
| baoli | rtuttle1015: a few weeks back, I asked If I should create one | 14:27 |
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| sc68cal | since you currently have to specify a CIDR for a subnet, but for PD, you'd be *requesting* a subnet | 14:27 |
| rtuttle1015 | I think one at least for a placeholder | 14:27 |
| rtuttle1015 | yes | 14:28 |
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| baoli | rtuttle1015, I will create one after the meeting | 14:28 |
| rtuttle1015 | kewl B-) | 14:28 |
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| rtuttle1015 | so we'd need to be able to specify how large a slice to take from PD when specifying an internal net, no? | 14:29 |
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| rtuttle1015 | of course, we'd need checks for overlaps, etc. | 14:29 |
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| sc68cal | Probably lots we'd have to hash out | 14:30 |
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| baoli | for sure. | 14:30 |
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| xuhanp | so let me double confirm here. For my security group RA patch for icehouse (if we can make it), I only allow RA from qr-xxxx LLA address or subnet's gateway IP (which should also be LLA), right? | 14:31 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: sounds correct to me - baoli? | 14:31 |
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| xuhanp | this is from compute node perspective. | 14:31 |
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| xuhanp | for now I plan to just use gateway IP from subnet. and we can figure out how to pass the LLA of gateway later. | 14:32 |
| baoli | the qr-xxx LLA is the subnet's gateway IP | 14:32 |
| xuhanp | may need a new API for that. | 14:32 |
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| xuhanp | this only when qr-xxxx is created. | 14:33 |
| rtuttle1015 | can u not just calculate LLA via EIU64 (the same way it's done in the agent)? | 14:33 |
| xuhanp | there is case this port is not created and the existing gateway is used. | 14:33 |
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| baoli | When a subnet is added to a router, the qr-xxx interface will be created | 14:33 |
| xuhanp | baoli, yes. | 14:33 |
| sc68cal | I'm sure we can scrape out the LLA from the qr-xxx post-creation and set it as the subnet's gateway | 14:34 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, we actually only need the LLA for the security group, right? | 14:34 |
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| baoli | sc68cal, that's right | 14:34 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: I believe so | 14:34 |
| xuhanp | so I can just do that calculation in my security group code. | 14:34 |
| haleyb | xuhanp: have you figured out if the icmp type can be specified already? (based on sean's email) i'm wondering if iptables will do the right thing, haven't verified that in devstack myself | 14:34 |
| xuhanp | using dazhao's code. | 14:34 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: good point | 14:35 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, you can either calculate it or get it from ip link | 14:35 |
| xuhanp | baoli, that's right. | 14:35 |
| xuhanp | haleyb, I haven't checked that yet. | 14:35 |
| xuhanp | will do soon. | 14:36 |
| sc68cal | I *think* that the code that creates the subnet's gateway attribute will occur before the security group code we're patching | 14:36 |
| sc68cal | but if not, we can calculate it | 14:36 |
| sc68cal | ideally you'd create the subnet, create the neutron router, *then* start launching instances | 14:36 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, great point. I haven't think about this yet. | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | and xuhanp's patch happens at the last step, so as long as we're sticking the LLA as the subnet's gateway when we create the neutron router we should be OK | 14:37 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, do you plan to save the LLA in openstack or get it whenever it's needed? | 14:37 |
| xuhanp | that's my new blueprint is about but I haven't figure out the details yet. | 14:38 |
| sc68cal | I vote for saving it, since we can return it in API calls instead of continually computing | 14:38 |
| sc68cal | when someone does a GET on their subnet, etc. | 14:38 |
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| sc68cal | I'm not sure how we handle that BP for making GUA's for routers though - that may be tricky | 14:39 |
| baoli | sc68cal, the qr-xxx port can still get an address from the subnet without any change, right? | 14:40 |
| sc68cal | I don't know for certain, I think it's a case of the qr-xxx port having a GUA addr on the subnet, but we'd only be putting the LLA back into Neutron's DB | 14:41 |
| sc68cal | ah no that's wrong | 14:41 |
| sc68cal | because the gateway still has ports | 14:41 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, what if the instance is launching before the router is created? | 14:41 |
| sc68cal | and the ports would have the addrs on the subnet | 14:41 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: Probably the same thing that happens today - no networking | 14:41 |
| sc68cal | or at least no routing | 14:41 |
| xuhanp | but we can still get the IP of qr-xxxx although it's not created? | 14:42 |
| xuhanp | if not. we won't have the rule for that IP. | 14:42 |
| sc68cal | no, we won't know the mac addr of a non-existent device | 14:42 |
| sc68cal | but that's OK | 14:43 |
| sc68cal | if you launch an instance on a net with no neutron router- you're either doing upstream gateway | 14:43 |
| sc68cal | or I don't know what you're doing | 14:43 |
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| xuhanp | so we expect user to add that rule later when router is created? | 14:43 |
| sc68cal | we expect a user to have the gateway already set up | 14:44 |
| sc68cal | be it an external gateway, or a neutron router | 14:44 |
| sc68cal | so that when the security group rules are being set up for an instance, it can just pull the gateway IP and add a rule to allow RAs in | 14:44 |
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| sc68cal | baoli: check my assumptions | 14:45 |
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| baoli | sc68cal, yea, the admin can add SG rules whenever it's needed. | 14:46 |
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| sc68cal | I think we've got this pretty much licked, with the two patches that you've created xuhanp | 14:47 |
| xuhanp | yep. hope so | 14:47 |
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| sc68cal | we've got a +2 from mark mcclain on the allow LLAs as router interface of v6 subnet | 14:48 |
| sc68cal | so, we're looking pretty good :) | 14:48 |
| baoli | we are talking about openstack router, I think. So is it possible for the admin to add the router after VMs got launched, or to replace/reconfigure the router, etc. | 14:49 |
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| xuhanp | that's my previous question, baoli :-) | 14:49 |
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| baoli | If it's possible, then it has to be taken care of, I guess | 14:50 |
| xuhanp | that order will make our security group rule missing | 14:50 |
| sc68cal | We can see if there's a way to refresh the security groups and get xuhanp's code path to fire again | 14:50 |
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| xuhanp | yeah. I can do some check on that. | 14:51 |
| baoli | right | 14:51 |
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| xuhanp | for example, every time the router is created or updated, fire that code again. | 14:51 |
| xuhanp | may need to move that to another place. | 14:51 |
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| sc68cal | We can take a look - but we can always improve it later - my concern is right now we have it a bit too permissive | 14:52 |
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| sc68cal | I know the RPC for security groups has a way to tell the driver to refresh | 14:52 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, maybe after my patches get merged, then open another bug to track this. | 14:53 |
| baoli | We also need to consider the combination of SG rule and the rule that xuhanp's patch will add, I think. | 14:53 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: +1 for another bug to track | 14:53 |
| sc68cal | baoli: +1 - although I *think* if they add another rule to allow in RAs, that .... might? win | 14:54 |
| sc68cal | have to grab my magnifying glass and read the iptables rules that it creates again. | 14:54 |
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| sc68cal | since the iptables rules it creates are RETURNs, based on the matching criteria | 14:55 |
| sc68cal | the last rule is a DROP | 14:55 |
| sc68cal | inside an security group chain | 14:55 |
| sc68cal | so if they add a sec group rule to permit RAs from somewhere else in, a new rule is added to the chain that does a RETURN for that address | 14:55 |
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| sc68cal | before the DROP statement, if I remember correctly | 14:56 |
| sc68cal | so I think we're OK | 14:56 |
| baoli | So you could create multiple ICMPv6 RA rules in the same time, and the last one in the chain will win? | 14:56 |
| haleyb | i'm more worried about the syntax used when adding that rule, since if it's not in iptables-save format things don't always work right on updates | 14:57 |
| sc68cal | whichever one matches the packet will win, make it RETURN from the sec-group chain, into another chain that allows it through | 14:57 |
| haleyb | baoli: the last one DROPs, so anything before it "wins" | 14:57 |
| baoli | sc68cal, haleyb, cool. | 14:58 |
| sc68cal | haleyb: is that the "protocol icmpv6" syntax for iptables? | 14:58 |
| sc68cal | vs whatever it is currently? | 14:58 |
| haleyb | i'd be happy to look at iptables-save before/after output | 14:58 |
| xuhanp | haleyb, I think it's the --icmp-type you are talking about? | 14:59 |
| xuhanp | --icmpv6-type | 14:59 |
| sc68cal | well, looks like we're out of time | 14:59 |
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| haleyb | sc68cal: i don't remember offhand, i'm more thinking of the filters we add today for types, yes, that thing | 14:59 |
| sc68cal | Let's get a blueprint or bug for handling router updates for our sg fix, and a bug for the icmp-type for iptables-save | 14:59 |
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| baoli | It would be ideal to have consistent icmpv6 RA rules in the chain. | 15:00 |
| sc68cal | then let's add it to the wiki so we don't lose track of them | 15:00 |
| baoli | agreed | 15:00 |
| sc68cal | thanks everyone! | 15:00 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, will do | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 4 15:00:36 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-03-04-14.00.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-03-04-14.00.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-03-04-14.00.log.html | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 4 15:01:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:01 |
| n0ano | anyone here to talk scheduler? | 15:01 |
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| bauzas | \o | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | (left-handed) | 15:02 |
| n0ano | you and my wife :-) | 15:02 |
| bauzas | :-) | 15:03 |
| n0ano | looks like everyones busy today, maybe you & I can talk a little about the forklift | 15:04 |
| n0ano | #topic scheduler code forklift | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "scheduler code forklift (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:04 | |
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| bauzas | sure | 15:04 |
| n0ano | I've been trying to update gantt to match the current nova tree, just to see what interfaces need to be updated, not much progress yet, have you been able to look at anything? | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-external-scheduler | 15:05 |
| bauzas | I looked at the 2nd bp | 15:05 |
| n0ano | the scheduler-lib one? | 15:05 |
| bauzas | yup | 15:05 |
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| n0ano | that would be good, how does it look to do that? | 15:06 |
| bauzas | the discussion was around where to update metrics | 15:06 |
| bauzas | ie. if we say that the scheduler lib should stand by its own, does it mean it could be a different SQL backend ? | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | atm, johnthetubaguy told me it was not necessary for a first release | 15:07 |
| n0ano | given it stands alone I'd say yes, it could use a different SQL backend but why would we | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | where the HostState should be placed ? | 15:09 |
| bauzas | I was thinking it should stand by its own as Gantt DB | 15:09 |
| bauzas | so that queries would look in it directly within the filters | 15:09 |
| n0ano | my goal would be to hold the hoststate in scheduler memory, potentially backed up by something like memcached to support multiple schedulers | 15:09 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that's sexy, but that means we should wait for the nodb-schedule to be implemented | 15:10 |
| n0ano | note I said goal, nodb would be `really` good but, while waiting for it, we can just keep the current SQL database | 15:11 |
| bauzas | ok | 15:11 |
| bauzas | I agree with the goal | 15:11 |
| bauzas | my concern is just how we make sure to backport changes to Gantt once forklifted | 15:11 |
| n0ano | I would imagine the first step would be to have the SQL database updated and queried only by the scheduler | 15:12 |
| bauzas | +1 | 15:12 |
| bauzas | let's talk baby steps | 15:12 |
| n0ano | +1 | 15:12 |
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| n0ano | I think we're in violent agreement :-) | 15:12 |
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| n0ano | backporting of changes is doable I think, just a lot of grunt work on my part | 15:12 |
| n0ano | not that we need to make the scheduler-lib and the SQL accesses in the nova tree first, we'll do a new generation of the gantt tree once plan B is done | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | ok, looking at the resource_tracker, I think the goal would be first to move the conductor calls to compute_nodeupdate() to scheduler lib | 15:14 |
| n0ano | sounds good, how does that affect the calls in the compute code to send that info | 15:15 |
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| bauzas | all the code is factorized | 15:16 |
| bauzas | within the _update() method | 15:16 |
| n0ano | so it's well isolated and easy to change | 15:16 |
| bauzas | I think (and hope) so | 15:16 |
| n0ano | sounds like a plan, do you think you can work on doing that soon? | 15:17 |
| bauzas | but my question is, do we consider this call should not use the nova conductor then ? | 15:17 |
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| n0ano | not sure what you mean and what's the implication | 15:17 |
| bauzas | gantt currently doesn't have conductors in place | 15:17 |
| bauzas | the call to update the host is done by self.conductor_api.compute_node_update( | 15:18 |
| bauzas | context, self.compute_node, values) | 15:18 |
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| n0ano | as long as that compute_node_update method winds up calling an API rather than linking into the scheduler code we should be OK | 15:19 |
| bauzas | that doesn't use scheduler code | 15:19 |
| bauzas | maybe I misexplained | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | resource_tracker is updating stats to ComputeNode table | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | thanks to compute_node_update() which finally goes to update ComputeNode table | 15:20 |
| bauzas | thru the conductor | 15:20 |
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| bauzas | there is no scheduler code in it | 15:21 |
| n0ano | well, if there's no scheduler code in it then it shouldn't be a problem for the forklift, move the scheduler out to a separate tree and the compute_node_update method should still work fine | 15:22 |
| bauzas | that's only HostState from the Scheduler which is periodically updating its states from the ComputeNode table | 15:22 |
| bauzas | the problem is that both projects share same table | 15:23 |
| bauzas | Nova and Gantt | 15:23 |
| n0ano | sharing the same table is OK for the forklift (maybe an issue for the no-db work but that's boris-42 | 15:23 |
| n0ano | ) problem. | 15:23 |
| bauzas | see the rationale here https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/scheduler-lib | 15:24 |
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| n0ano | I think there's some confusion between splitting the code out and creating well defined interfaces | 15:26 |
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| n0ano | that BP is more about creating interfaces (which is good) but not necessarily necessary to splitting the code out | 15:27 |
| bauzas | well, I'm ok with it | 15:27 |
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| n0ano | no arguement, clean interfaces are good, personally I'm kind of focused on splitting the code out, I think we can do both in parallel | 15:28 |
| bauzas | think so too | 15:28 |
| bauzas | basically the proposal is to wrap up some interfaces within Gantt, that's it | 15:28 |
| n0ano | yep, that's the idea | 15:29 |
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| bauzas | we're entering FeatureFreeze | 15:29 |
| bauzas | when do you think it's worth working on it ? | 15:30 |
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| n0ano | well, we can work on a private tree of course but I don't think we should try to push patches until after the Juno tree opens up, there's too much that needs to done on Icehouse right now | 15:31 |
| n0ano | it would be nice to get as much done as possible early in the Juno cycle, otherwise things will have a tendency to slip a lot | 15:31 |
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| bauzas | +1 | 15:32 |
| bauzas | anyway, i'm new to nova | 15:32 |
| bauzas | I was more focused on other project | 15:32 |
| bauzas | so, I can do some drafts there | 15:32 |
| bauzas | and you would be able to review me | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | and johnthetubaguy as well | 15:32 |
| bauzas | so that once Juno would go live, we could focus on real patchsets | 15:33 |
| n0ano | absolutely (I consider myself relatively new myself) | 15:33 |
| bauzas | I'm moving from Climate to Nova scheduler things, so I have a little ramp-up for understanding Nova concepts | 15:33 |
| n0ano | I want to keep working until juno goes live so we can immediately push stuff if possible but we do have a little bit of time. | 15:33 |
| bauzas | sounds good | 15:34 |
| n0ano | we can learn together :-) | 15:34 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:34 |
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| bauzas | I hope to be present at the Juno summit, that will depend on the Travel Support Program agreement... or not :) | 15:34 |
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| n0ano | I'll be there (these conferences are one I can talk my company into), let's hope you can make it too | 15:35 |
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| n0ano | where are you physically located? | 15:35 |
| bauzas | Grenoble, France | 15:36 |
| n0ano | Ahh, well, the K summit should be easy for you (Paris), Atlanta I feel your pain | 15:36 |
| bauzas | I was present in KH | 15:37 |
| bauzas | HK | 15:37 |
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| n0ano | I was in HK also but I have a tendency to keep a low profile | 15:37 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:37 |
| bauzas | I did a quick nova unconference presentation on Friday about scheduling interactions with Climate | 15:38 |
| n0ano | I'm good for today, unless you have anything else you want to discuss? | 15:38 |
| bauzas | nope, I'm fine too | 15:38 |
| bauzas | let's back to work | 15:38 |
| n0ano | cool, good talking to you and we'll meet again next week. | 15:38 |
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| bauzas | sure | 15:38 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:38 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 4 15:38:53 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:38 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-03-04-15.01.html | 15:38 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-03-04-15.01.txt | 15:38 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-03-04-15.01.log.html | 15:38 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 4 16:00:47 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | hi everyone | 16:00 |
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| primeministerp | we'll give a couple minutes for others to join | 16:01 |
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| alexpilotti | hi everybody! | 16:01 |
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| primeministerp | hi alexpilotti | 16:02 |
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| primeministerp | hi ociuhandu_ | 16:04 |
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| ociuhandu_ | hi all | 16:04 |
| ociuhandu_ | hey primeministerp | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | we'll wait another minute or so | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | ok guys | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | let's begin | 16:07 |
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| primeministerp | #topic nova-rdp | 16:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nova-rdp (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:08 | |
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| alexpilotti | so, we got the RDP blueprint merged on the Nova side | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | execellent | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-rdp-console | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | so from now on, it's possible to deploy a RDP console | 16:10 |
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| alexpilotti | #link http://wiki.cloudbase.it/nova-rdp | 16:11 |
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| alexpilotti | if somebody wants to deploy, here's the wiki post showing up how to | 16:11 |
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| primeministerp | great work guys | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | tx! | 16:11 |
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| primeministerp | and the status of the horizon integration? | 16:12 |
| alexpilotti | yep, on the Horizon side, we still have one patch pending | 16:12 |
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| alexpilotti | it has a +2, missing a second review | 16:13 |
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| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44257/ | 16:14 |
| alexpilotti | david-lyle already reviewed it positevely | 16:14 |
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| primeministerp | also great news | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | hopefully we'll get the +2 today | 16:14 |
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| primeministerp | #topic horizon encrypted password | 16:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "horizon encrypted password (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:16 | |
| primeministerp | so i know there was issues w/ the plain txt passwd | 16:16 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: do you want to discuss briefly | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | I know this has been a problem for while | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | yep, arezmeriza submitted a patch #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/61032/ | 16:16 |
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| alexpilotti | that matches the nova feature already in Nova since Grizzly | 16:17 |
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| alexpilotti | the BP was not targetted until yesterday, so it didn't get much attention before | 16:18 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: and do you expect that it will get some traction prior to the deadline? | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | the patch is ready, but it most probably will require a FFE | 16:19 |
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| primeministerp | hmmm | 16:20 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: I know this is more on the critical side for us | 16:21 |
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| primeministerp | hopefully it will get some attention | 16:21 |
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| primeministerp | #topic neutron-hyper-v driver | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "neutron-hyper-v driver (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:21 | |
| alexpilotti | we have the security groups patch ready to merge: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74199/ | 16:22 |
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| alexpilotti | markmcclain is helping in reviewing it | 16:22 |
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| primeministerp | great | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | any others that we're missing | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | #topic puppet modules | 16:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "puppet modules (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:24 | |
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| primeministerp | so we'll be working in the next few weeks to clean up the existing puppet modules to push everything upstream | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | hmm, was hoping to chat w/ luis, but it may have to wait | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | #topic hyper-v ci | 16:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "hyper-v ci (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:25 | |
| primeministerp | so we doubled our run capicaty | 16:26 |
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| primeministerp | however there were some technical issues which caused some problems over the last two weeks | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | 2 patches that negatively affected our runs | 16:26 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: since we're in the beginning, we also have blocking bugs | 16:27 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: care to add some info? | 16:27 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: that get merged despite the fact that the hyper-v ci reports them as failed | 16:27 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: ahh | 16:27 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: we'll have to work on getting some weight behind our test runs | 16:28 |
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| ociuhandu | we had an issue with a patch handling linux-specific signals | 16:28 |
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| ociuhandu | that brought down the CI for quite some time | 16:28 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: yes, and at the same time any such failure will affect that wieght :) | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | Nova patch that introcuced the issue: #link https://github.com/openstack/nova/commit/cec532848f569afb4832029bce4969578472a57a | 16:28 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: I fully understand | 16:29 |
| alexpilotti | patch that we commit to fix it: nova #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77351/ | 16:29 |
| alexpilotti | oslo patch: #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77596/ | 16:30 |
| ociuhandu | on the other hand, we had the first patch that was "blocked" until the hyper-v CI is saying it's fine #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74199/ | 16:30 |
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| ociuhandu | which was a very fair request | 16:31 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: thanks | 16:33 |
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| primeministerp | is there anything else we need to address? | 16:34 |
| alexpilotti | I think we are set | 16:34 |
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| ociuhandu | i think we're set too | 16:35 |
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| primeministerp | great | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | I'll follow up w/ luis | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | later | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 4 16:36:00 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-03-04-16.00.html | 16:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-03-04-16.00.txt | 16:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-03-04-16.00.log.html | 16:36 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 17:01 |
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| ttx | off by one error | 17:01 |
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| boris-42 | ttx thx | 17:01 |
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| boris-42 | ughsaunders rediskin shakayumi stannie tnurlygayanov tzabal jroovers|afk akscram amaretskiy stannie olkonami hi | 17:01 |
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| boris-42 | hughsaunders hi | 17:02 |
| boris-42 | Rally meeting time=) anybody here?) | 17:02 |
| tzabal | here | 17:02 |
| olkonami | hi | 17:02 |
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| boris-42 | waiting for others | 17:04 |
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| rediskin | sup | 17:04 |
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| boris-42 | rediskin okay as you are here | 17:04 |
| boris-42 | rediskin let's start from deploy stuff | 17:04 |
| boris-42 | share pls with updates | 17:04 |
| boris-42 | and say what you would like to say=) | 17:04 |
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| rediskin | something around 8 patches on review. have some troubles with devstack | 17:05 |
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| rediskin | so this patches does not work because of devstack bugs | 17:06 |
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| rediskin | thats all | 17:06 |
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| rediskin | I tell you when it be fixed :) | 17:07 |
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| boris-42 | rediskin probably we should send some email to mailing list | 17:07 |
| boris-42 | rediskin about devstack multinode gate ? | 17:07 |
| rediskin | there is reported bugs in openstack-dev/devstack | 17:08 |
| rediskin | boris-42: oh, maybe | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | rediskin not bug, whole gate | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | rediskin that will keep it working | 17:08 |
| rediskin | boris-42: I'm not familiar with gates.. | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes is | 17:08 |
| rediskin | and with all this infra stuff | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes around? | 17:08 |
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| jaypipes | boris-42: yes | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes we have troubles | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:08 |
| msdubov | boris-42 Hi, sorry for being late | 17:09 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes DevStack multimode installation doesn't work properly | 17:09 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes we would like to help DevStack guys with this part | 17:09 |
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| jaypipes | boris-42: dtroyer would be a better person to talk to about that. I've never used the devstack muti-node installer | 17:09 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes cause we would like to deploy in LXC containers from Rally using DevStack multinode | 17:09 |
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| boris-42 | jaypipes yep but we would like to help with building gate | 17:09 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes for that case | 17:09 |
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| boris-42 | jaypipes that will keep it working | 17:09 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes do you have some idea where to get some manuals?) | 17:10 |
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| jaypipes | boris-42: good luck with that. you will run into issues with OVS and iscsictl | 17:10 |
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| boris-42 | ovs?) | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | boris-42: unfortunately, I do not know where devstack manuals are, if they exist. | 17:10 |
| jaypipes | openvswitch.. | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes it's actually not that case | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes we are now speaking just about multimode devstack installation | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | boris-42: there are a number of packages, including iscsid, that will not work with a shared kernel virtualization like LXC. | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes agree but we don't speak now about LXC at all | 17:11 |
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| boris-42 | jaypipes we are speaking just about multimode devstack stuff | 17:11 |
| jaypipes | oh? you wrote above: " cause we would like to deploy in LXC containers from Rally using DevStack multinode" | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes and building gates for that | 17:12 |
| rediskin | multinode and vake_virt stuff | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes yep it's our future step in Rally | 17:12 |
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| boris-42 | jaypipes but for now we would like to get at least working multimode installation | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes without any lxc containers | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:12 |
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| jaypipes | boris-42: k. unfortunately, I've never done that :( dtroyer would be the best resource to ask about that. | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | okay we will try to ping him =) | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes thx | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | jaypipes do you know what is his tz? | 17:13 |
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| jaypipes | I *thnk* it is PST. | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | jaypipes okay nice | 17:14 |
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| boris-42 | rediskin OK I think you should write something about this in mailing list + try to catch dtroyer? | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | rediskin agree? | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | rediskin we should help devstack guys | 17:14 |
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| boris-42 | rediskin pls answer something.. | 17:15 |
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| boris-42 | okay while rediskin is thinking let's go to the next topic | 17:16 |
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| * boris-42 TEMPEST + RALLY | 17:16 | |
| boris-42 | olkonami could you share with current status? | 17:17 |
| boris-42 | olkonami what is you current task? and so on? | 17:17 |
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| olkonami | current task is make verify run without sudo | 17:18 |
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| olkonami | boris-42, you wrote do "cp base_tempest_repo deploy-id/tempest && cd deploy-id/tempest && git checkout master && git remote update && git pull" for tempest installation | 17:19 |
| olkonami | as I understand, now we don't do pull | 17:19 |
| olkonami | may be it's better to use some option to specify should we do pull or not | 17:19 |
| olkonami | what do you think? | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | olkonami actually yes | 17:19 |
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| boris-42 | olkonami but it should be a part of rally-manage tempest install | 17:19 |
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| boris-42 | olkonami I think that we should do only first time git clone to some common place | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | olkonami other time we will use "cp" | 17:20 |
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| olkonami | ok, I understand this | 17:21 |
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| olkonami | and also I have for loading extra modules on review | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | rediskin msdubov take a look pls as well ^ | 17:22 |
| olkonami | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72679/ | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | olkonami could you share url for others | 17:22 |
| msdubov | boris-42 ok | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | olkonami thx=) | 17:22 |
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| boris-42 | Ok let's move to the benchmark part | 17:23 |
| olkonami | boris-42, I answered on your question there, look please | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | olkonami yep I will | 17:23 |
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| boris-42 | I am currently doing "context" stuff | 17:23 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais hi | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | So this context stuff is going to be very useful | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | so you will be able to build any openstack environment | 17:24 |
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| boris-42 | (e.g. sec group rules, quotas, images, flavors, network, …) before running benchmark | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | and then cleanup it | 17:25 |
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| boris-42 | and this context info will be the same object inside all context classes | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | and inside benchmark scnearios | 17:25 |
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| boris-42 | So I will publish today patch+) | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | This is actually our blocker | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | that blocks pre created users + quota setup and other and other | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais msdubov do you have anything to share? | 17:27 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: I thought the refactoring that you did over the weekend makes the code much cleaner | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais not enoguh+) | 17:27 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: I still see some cases where we create clients deep in the bowels of code | 17:28 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais yep =( | 17:28 |
| marcoemorais | boris-42: for example, ResourceCleaner — | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais especially benchmarking engine is ugly | 17:28 |
| msdubov | msdubov well I've been doing mostly code review and also managed trello cards | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais I will share today context stuff | 17:28 |
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| msdubov | boris-42 I'm going to write code towards the end of the week =) | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | msdubov =) | 17:29 |
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| boris-42 | marcoemorais msdubov olkonami rediskin tzabal okay let's finish meeting | 17:30 |
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| boris-42 | cause I have to do some stuff =( | 17:30 |
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| olkonami | ok, bye | 17:31 |
| msdubov | boris-42 ok | 17:32 |
| rediskin | boris-42: sorry, I was asking Roman about gate/infra stuff | 17:32 |
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| stevemar | o/ | 18:01 |
| marekd | \o/ | 18:01 |
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| lbragstad | hey | 18:01 |
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| topol | o/ | 18:01 |
| stevemar | ahoy hoy | 18:01 |
| gyee | \o | 18:01 |
| dolphm | boris-42: o/ | 18:01 |
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| dstanek | hi | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 18:02 |
| boris-42 | dstanek hi=) | 18:02 |
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| boris-42 | dolphm hi | 18:02 |
| gyee | endmeeting already? | 18:02 |
| henrynash | hi | 18:02 |
| boris-42 | dolphm meeting bot doesn't work =( | 18:02 |
| dolphm | boris-42: ah, alrighty then | 18:02 |
| dolphm | boris-42: thanks! | 18:02 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:02 |
| boris-42 | dolphm np | 18:02 |
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| stevemar | gyee, yep meetings over, we can all go home | 18:02 |
| dolphm | might as well try... | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 4 18:02:50 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| dolphm | boris-42: success! | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76: ping | 18:03 |
| boris-42 | dolphm ou nice=) | 18:03 |
| ayoung | w00t | 18:03 |
| gyee | dolphm's got the magic command :) | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | #topic Reminder: Icehouse feature freeze today! (features must be merged) | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Icehouse feature freeze today! (features must be merged) (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:03 | |
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| dolphm | at this point we've only got one open bp: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55908/ | 18:03 |
| stevemar | dolphm, i thought it was the 6th :O | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | and one high priority bug fix: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75727/ | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | stevemar: i3 is cut today | 18:04 |
| dolphm | stevemar: it's released on the 6th | 18:04 |
| stevemar | dolphm, ah okay | 18:04 |
| dolphm | stevemar: pretty sure our meeting agenda has said march 4th for a long while :) | 18:04 |
| stevemar | i gave topol the wrong info yesterday :) | 18:04 |
| topol | dolphm so after today can there still be bug fixes or no? | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | topol: absolutely | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | topol: bug fixes only for the next few weeks | 18:05 |
| topol | dolphm, ok cool | 18:05 |
| stevemar | bug fixing is encouraged | 18:05 |
| dolphm | i've already started laying out our blockers to shipping icehouse: | 18:05 |
| dolphm | #link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 18:05 |
| bknudson | looks like march 27 is start of release candidates | 18:05 |
| dolphm | once we cut an RC1, master will be re-opened for Juno features | 18:06 |
| ayoung | 55908 now has the record for the most revisions on a single review. 80 as of now | 18:06 |
| stevemar | 81* | 18:06 |
| dolphm | and we'll have a milestone-proposed branch to backport further bug fixes to (RC2 bugs, if any) | 18:06 |
| ayoung | HA! | 18:06 |
| ayoung | stevemar, the thing that scares me is it still hasn't gotten the bknudson treatment. | 18:07 |
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| stevemar | ayoung, i always fear the bknudson treatment | 18:08 |
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| bknudson | it would take me so long to review the change I wouldn't get done until next week | 18:08 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, hehe | 18:09 |
| bknudson | the only feedback I could give on it now is that it's too complicated for me to understand it | 18:09 |
| ayoung | Well, it got it back on revision 23 | 18:09 |
| gyee | merge 55908 and call it experimental feature :) | 18:09 |
| gyee | if we have to do it EOB today that is | 18:09 |
| ayoung | dstanek, did I get your changes? | 18:10 |
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| dolphm | gyee: considering it's a security feature, that's not really acceptable | 18:10 |
| dstanek | ayoung: i think so - was going over it before this meeting | 18:10 |
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| dolphm | we have enough silly vulnerabilities on our track record as it stands | 18:10 |
| gyee | dolphm, but there's a kill switch | 18:10 |
| ayoung | dstanek, yeah...just did the 80-81 diff | 18:11 |
| gyee | I mean its an extension | 18:11 |
| ayoung | its disabled by default | 18:11 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, but security extension == scary | 18:11 |
| stevemar | is there a dire need for it? | 18:11 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, security is a process, software is a tool | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | it means it can be QA'ed before it is tested | 18:11 |
| dolphm | ayoung: speaking of, you should definitely add SecurityImpact to the commit message | 18:11 |
| ayoung | I think it needs to be in, experimental | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, is there one if it in not enabled? | 18:11 |
| dolphm | ayoung: ? | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, if it opens us up to security bugs, it doesn't matter if could cause a lot of headaches. | 18:12 |
| ayoung | I mean, I'll do it, but there should be no impact until we tell people : go ahead an use it | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, not saying we shouldn't merge it. | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, just making sure we're aware what we're getting into | 18:12 |
| ayoung | lets merge it with an eye to getting tempest support up to speed, the client using it, and a general shake out | 18:13 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, sure, call it experimental would cover our asses | 18:13 |
| bknudson | I don't think experimental will mean we don't have to provide security fixes for it. | 18:13 |
| ayoung | I think we need to start doing that for new, big features. Its part of the reason for doing it as an extension | 18:13 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: let's focus on *reviewing* it for now, not *merging* it | 18:13 |
| bknudson | i.e., we will have to fix any security problems found whether it's experimental or not | 18:13 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:13 |
| dolphm | bknudson: ++ | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ | 18:13 |
| gyee | bknudson, that's not what I mean, we'll have to fix whatever that is needed | 18:13 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, in general, though, we need an "experimental" track. | 18:14 |
| ayoung | especially when changes need to be made both in server and client, and then tempest tests on top | 18:14 |
| bknudson | maybe if we put in a big warning to not use this if you care about security?? | 18:14 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i've actually prototyped an @experimental decorator to complement the @deprecated one | 18:14 |
| ayoung | ephemeral will be in the same boat | 18:14 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:14 |
| bknudson | since there's lots of things you could do if you don't care about security | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, actually, i hope ephemeral will be J1 | 18:15 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, experimental in J1.... | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, so more drive time to get things in. last minute on merge day is hard to get in experimental or not | 18:15 |
| ayoung | and GA in Juna GA | 18:15 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, you are right, I should have started this earlier. Like back in Essex | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, dolphm, i like the idea we work on reviewing. | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | if everything is looking good, we can hit +A | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | if not, we have something that can land J1 | 18:16 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | first review (after some sqlalchemy etc administativa if we're doing that) | 18:16 |
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| morganfainberg | and yes, i would target this as the absolute first feature of J1 if it pushes | 18:17 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: we said that about i2 -> i3, but the patchset more than doubled in size since then | 18:17 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, it's a big change. no doubt. | 18:17 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, but i don't see it doubling or even growing much at this point beyond "cleanup" | 18:18 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, so, I have tested the sql change to do it as an integer instead of a UUID and it looks right | 18:20 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ cool | 18:20 |
| ayoung | dolphm, wanted me to hold of on any more churn on the patch, though | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | fair enough. | 18:20 |
| ayoung | I could potentially do it as a migration if desired | 18:20 |
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| morganfainberg | we should do that, but no need to lump it in | 18:20 |
| ayoung | I'm going to post it WIP so you guys can see | 18:21 |
| dolphm | i'd like to spend as much time as possible today reviewing code, so going to move on... | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ | 18:21 |
| dolphm | #topic Fixing multi-backend LDAP with composite user/group IDs | 18:22 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Fixing multi-backend LDAP with composite user/group IDs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:22 | |
| dstanek | my biggest concern is that i don't know if i have the whole picture in my head about how this impacts security | 18:22 |
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| gyee | dolphm, beside that one, are there any other review that is high priority for today? | 18:22 |
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| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77954/ | 18:22 |
| ayoung | ^^ is the WI{P for SQL | 18:22 |
| dolphm | gyee: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/55908/77 https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75727/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77215/ | 18:22 |
| ayoung | not a priority | 18:22 |
| gyee | k | 18:22 |
| dolphm | henrynash: shall we defer this conversation until we're open for juno? | 18:23 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: yes, I think so | 18:23 |
| dolphm | henrynash: sounds good | 18:23 |
| henrynash | I don't think we should ram this in | 18:23 |
| dolphm | #topic Reconstruction of V3 tokens from API on validate - breaks some operator use-cases | 18:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reconstruction of V3 tokens from API on validate - breaks some operator use-cases (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:23 | |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: o/ | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | i can follow up w/ henrynash later w/ what i talked w/ ayoung about last night | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ok | 18:23 |
| henrynash | thx | 18:23 |
| ayoung | sorry henrynash | 18:24 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, what's the problem? bug? | 18:24 |
| topol | bknudson ++++ | 18:24 |
| henrynash | ayoung: getting it right is more improtant | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | so V3 tokens are reconstructed each time we do a validate - this means you must have a full keystone running to get a token validated. V2 uses data in the persistence | 18:24 |
| gyee | no, its it token data | 18:24 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: v2 did it so v3 can't? | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | the issue is something Ryan_lane brought up, some people (g and h) only replicate the token store between sites | 18:24 |
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| bknudson | morganfainberg: uuid tokens? | 18:25 |
| dolphm | (unfortunately Ryan_Lane doesn't seem to be on) | 18:25 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: i'm not following | 18:25 |
| gyee | we only reconstruct on mixing use cases, i.e. validating v2 token using v3 API | 18:25 |
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| dolphm | wikimedia has a multi-region deployment with a replicated token store across each region ( morganfainberg correct me if i'm wrong ) | 18:25 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, let him file a bug | 18:25 |
| ayoung | otherwise, Juno summit fodder | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/token/providers/common.py#L309 https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/token/providers/common.py#L209 etc | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i brought this up before i asked him to submit a bug. | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/token/providers/common.py#L207 | 18:26 |
| dolphm | ayoung: wikimedia's architecture is something we supported in essex, folsom, and grizzly. we broke it in havana | 18:26 |
| henrynash | (My connectivity may go out in a while…if so I'll reconnect later) | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, we basically need to clean that up and ensure we don't have broken tokens. | 18:27 |
| bknudson | so if you asked for ?nocatalog before then when you validate you'll get a different catalog? | 18:27 |
| ayoung | ephemeral will solve that, too. | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, yep | 18:27 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yes | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, correct | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, but we may want to clean this up as a bug in I, backport to H | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | that is fine....and I think we can do that | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i wanted a quick consensus from the core team before i had the bug filed | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | especially now that we support a reddis backend natively, he might be more inclined to participate, too | 18:28 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, and if we think that fixing / backport is good, we'll get the bug filed and tagged | 18:28 |
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| morganfainberg | it's not a lot of cleanup | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | so i think it's reasonable | 18:28 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: my question is whether it should be an RC blocker? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | yeha, reconstitute is wrong. It means that if we slip and don';t revoke the token when one of the roles or something changem the content of the token is different | 18:29 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: given that it's already a bug in havana, i'd think not | 18:29 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, i think not | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i think if we miss RC we will backport to I | 18:29 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/token/providers/common.py#L633 | 18:29 |
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| gyee | and my comment above that line | 18:29 |
| gyee | if token_data is in the ref, we return it as is | 18:30 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, well, sortof. | 18:30 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, there are a lot of gaps that could call into keystone | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, we should remove the reconstruct code completely | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, make sure we only store valid tokens | 18:30 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, no, fox mixing use cases | 18:30 |
| gyee | unless we abstract the token format | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, that is my plan | 18:31 |
| ayoung | gyee, yeah...convert v2 to v3 and vice-versa should be a tool in the provider, but shoud not go to the backend unless absolutelt necessary to fill in attributes | 18:31 |
| gyee | ayoung, problem is that signature | 18:31 |
| gyee | for PKI tokens, signature is generate on issuance | 18:32 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, we can still return the same data we had before | 18:32 |
| ayoung | gyee, for revocation I wanted to convert a v2 to v3 and then have a unified logic | 18:32 |
| gyee | sure, if we can do it without breaking the signature, I am all for it | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, but i expect i can fix the tokens to contain what they need | 18:32 |
| topol | how do you not break the signature??? | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, ayoung, dolphm, i think the consensus is we can fix this, bug filed, and see what we can do | 18:33 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, the tricky part is the signature | 18:33 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:33 |
| dolphm | #topic open discussion | 18:33 |
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| gyee | topol, don't temper that data | 18:33 |
| bknudson | add the right random data to the end of the token data and you can get the same signature | 18:33 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, hehe | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | I have one more topic! | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | :) | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | SQL migrate collapse | 18:34 |
| bknudson | there's been some discussion in OSSG about doing a thread analysis... | 18:34 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I think calculating that data is NP Hard | 18:34 |
| bknudson | oops | 18:34 |
| bknudson | threat analysis | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | I am working on collapsing down migrations to start with havana for icehouse (like how nova does it) | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | the thread of threats? The threat of threads? | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | any concerns? i think it's generally a positive move | 18:35 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, +++++++++ | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | i expect to have this in before RC, it's not too complex a change | 18:35 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, just do it from the bottom up, and keep the interim tests if possible | 18:35 |
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| bknudson | see https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1aEVfmQtqnoMmpPZ3hmUHpBa1k/edit for the thread modeling process | 18:35 |
| bknudson | here's the a keystone-specific one: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1aEVfmQtqnobzB6M21uMEFXNUE/edit | 18:36 |
| gyee | and static source code analysis | 18:36 |
| gyee | pen testing | 18:36 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, i'm working to ensure the schema is the same from 036_havana as 036_token_somethingsomething.py | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, if the schema lands the same, i'm happy, if not... ick | 18:36 |
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| bknudson | morganfainberg: collapsing the migrations would be good... I suspect it would speed up the tests significantly | 18:36 |
| bknudson | although there's probably other ways to speed up the tests too. | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, testing will be mucked with (sql update) once i'm sure the schema is good | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i think it's important to make it easier to maintain migrations | 18:36 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, we want the interim tests in the migrations that check columns and such...the migrations can probably be dropped | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, ++ yep | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, the "has X changed from Y" checks will need to go esp where they check before/after | 18:37 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:37 |
| ayoung | sounds like you are on track | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, it'll resduce sql upgrade complexity | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | reduce even | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, a minor speedup will be a side benefit | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | ok thats all from me :) | 18:38 |
| bknudson | and I just wanted to bring up the threat analysis if anyone was interested. | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ | 18:38 |
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| topol | I'll just pad a few extra chars to the end of the threat analysis doc until I decide I like it | 18:39 |
| gyee | bknudson, we've done some threat analysis and pen testing internally | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, any fuzz testing? | 18:40 |
| gyee | lemme talk to our security folks to see if they want to contribute | 18:40 |
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| gyee | no fuzz testing :) | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, i'd love to see fuzz testing against our APIs | 18:40 |
| gyee | choas monkey testing, yes | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | it might be super interesting results | 18:40 |
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| bknudson | I think we know already that keystone does no input validation. | 18:41 |
| gyee | we also have requirement for FIFS 140-2 certificate, which is insane | 18:41 |
| bknudson | except in the few places we've put it in | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | ++ | 18:41 |
| gyee | certification | 18:41 |
| gyee | I basically had to tell them to back off | 18:41 |
| bknudson | gyee: we've had the same FIPS 140-2 request. | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, sure, but it would be cool to have a definitive "here is what we need to fix" target. | 18:41 |
| gyee | bknudson, don't go FIPS 140-2 yet, your life will be miserable | 18:41 |
| ayoung | I've got a one line change for 55908. I'm going to post it now | 18:41 |
| bknudson | gyee: it has made me miserable already | 18:42 |
| ayoung | FIPS! | 18:42 |
| dolphm | gyee: have you submitted any vulnerabilities? | 18:42 |
| dstanek | i also want to warn everyone about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/more-code-style-automation | 18:42 |
| gyee | dolphm, one I think, from last release | 18:42 |
| gyee | actually, ayoung submitted it for me | 18:43 |
| dstanek | i was frustrated over the weekend because it seems like all reviews have a lot of the same problems - no i'm automating some of the common ones | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, btw thanks for fixing the comments on ayoung's review, i was too tired to get those in cleanly last night post review | 18:43 |
| ayoung | You guys rock...much appreciated | 18:43 |
| ayoung | this one was really a team effort, to include YorikSar... | 18:43 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: automation my friend, automation :-) | 18:43 |
| gyee | dolphm, I am thinking submitting another one for scoping trust to ec2 key | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, ++ | 18:43 |
| gyee | that's a vulnerability in the making | 18:44 |
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| dolphm | dstanek: is your goal to get those into hacking? | 18:44 |
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| dstanek | dolphm: yes, i'm going to get them running for us first though | 18:44 |
| bknudson | can we have keystone-specific hacking? | 18:45 |
| * lbragstad listens... | 18:45 | |
| dstanek | bknudson: absolutely! | 18:45 |
| lbragstad | good question. | 18:45 |
| ayoung | can people get tox -edocs to run on their local machines? Am I the only one that has it broken? | 18:45 |
| stevemar | dstanek, i like that, i'm gong to add more | 18:45 |
| topol | we already have keystone-specific: use single quotes overt double quotes when possible | 18:45 |
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| topol | its just small | 18:46 |
| stevemar | ayoung, it runs just fine | 18:46 |
| gyee | topol, that's a keystone thing? | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | i pushed up a hacking check for inline comments, but not sure they agree. | 18:46 |
| dstanek | bknudson: i only have 3 of the check i was working on running against our code - i'll submit a review for those and the checks shortly after the meeting | 18:46 |
| bknudson | ayoung: works for me... might want to rm -r doc/build doc/source/api | 18:46 |
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| topol | it wa sin keystone hacking last time I looked. and not much else | 18:46 |
| dstanek | topol: where is that check? | 18:46 |
| ayoung | git clean -xdf doc/ that was probably it | 18:46 |
| bknudson | topol: I mean custom automated checks. | 18:46 |
| topol | no its not automated... :-) | 18:47 |
| lbragstad | dstanek: actually, the one I pushed for review is the first one on your list | 18:47 |
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| dstanek | topol: oh, you mean documented. i wrote a check for that already too! | 18:47 |
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| dolphm | topol: but it's not automated | 18:47 |
| bknudson | dstanek: you've got one for use ' ? | 18:47 |
| topol | yes, our documented list is quite small | 18:47 |
| dstanek | bknudson: yes, or " if the string contains a ' | 18:47 |
| bknudson | dstanek: great! | 18:48 |
| dstanek | these are all either separate functions or classes (based on the type of check) and as a group we can decide what to keep and where i went overboard | 18:48 |
| bknudson | I assume it hits a lot of existing code. | 18:48 |
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| topol | bknudson++ | 18:48 |
| bknudson | we need a pep8 tool that FIXES the problems, not just complains | 18:49 |
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| dstanek | bknudson: yeah, yesterday i walked through the code and fixed it for a few of the checks | 18:49 |
| dstanek | those are the ones i'll submit today | 18:49 |
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| dstanek | i'll get to more probably tonight | 18:49 |
| topol | dstanek anything that keeps the code from getting sloppy via automation is very cool | 18:49 |
| bknudson | I'm not sure that we want to add new pep8 checks now... | 18:49 |
| bknudson | that could be a lot of churn | 18:50 |
| topol | bknudson, wait till juno? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | topol, PyCharm is pretty good for that | 18:50 |
| bknudson | I'd prefer to wait until juno | 18:50 |
| topol | me too | 18:50 |
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| bknudson | depends on the changes required to add it. | 18:51 |
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| dstanek | the first few there were not a ton of changes...but it'll also make patches failed that are already passing in the review process | 18:52 |
| gyee | ayoung, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77215/4/keystoneclient/middleware/auth_token.py, why are we still using v2.0 to fetch the cert? Didn't jamielennox added the API for v3? | 18:52 |
| stevemar | dstanek, i added a few, i really like the idea, and appreciate the effort | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | gyee, yeah, and we need to update the client | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | gyee: there is server side support, there isn't client side | 18:53 |
| ayoung | gyee, that was just a bug fix change. | 18:53 |
| dstanek | this all started when i was thinking about creating a project called nit-picker that would use git-review to pull patches locally and run the checks | 18:53 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i'd be happy to see stylistic consistency changes land anytime, even during the push to RC. i'd argue that it will make backporting from master to icehouse later on a bit easier | 18:53 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, he's talking about the atomic write change | 18:53 |
| gyee | so should we it in the same patch or a separate one? | 18:53 |
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| ayoung | separate | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | gyee, ayoung: sorry haven't been watching | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, i think a lot of that can be moved into hacking eventually. | 18:53 |
| stevemar | dstanek, some may not be automatable, but i wanted to add stuff i commonly have to mention in reviews | 18:54 |
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| dstanek | morganfainberg: i hope so | 18:54 |
| gyee | ayoung, maybe a separate patch, but enabling an options to store the certs in memcache would be nice too | 18:54 |
| ayoung | gyee, this is for writing the file, makes no change to fetching it. We can do one for using V3 on top of it, but we need to support both v2 and v3 for a while | 18:54 |
| dstanek | stevemar: add whenever you can think of - if we can't automate then at least we have a list to point to for newcomers | 18:54 |
| stevemar | dstanek, rgr that | 18:54 |
| gyee | ayoung, k | 18:54 |
| ayoung | gyee, memcache does us no good, as we need them in the FS in order to call openssl | 18:54 |
| bknudson | we have a review checklist already: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReviewChecklist | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, AH...reminds me | 18:55 |
| ayoung | can we generate the sample conf using setup.py? | 18:55 |
| ayoung | if it is generated code, it should not really be checked in | 18:56 |
| gyee | ayoung, yeah, need to figure out how to do this in-process, popen is expensive | 18:56 |
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| gyee | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77215 looks good, I am going to push the button, unless there are objections | 18:56 |
| bknudson | on a patch earlier today the pep8 check for the sample failed... I think it was because my version of oslo.messaging didn't match the current one | 18:56 |
| ayoung | gyee, it may be, but not in the way you think. popen can be fairly light weight | 18:56 |
| topol | ayoung, didnt we have a similar conversation to what gyee suggested at the diner at the hackathon??? | 18:56 |
| bknudson | they released a new version of the library and that caused the help strings to change! | 18:57 |
| dolphm | topol: (gyee wasn't at the hackathon) | 18:57 |
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| gyee | topol, must be my evil twin brother | 18:57 |
| topol | dolphm, I know, but ayoung and I disucssed this | 18:57 |
| dolphm | topol: oh the conversation with ayoung as at the hackathon, got it | 18:57 |
| dolphm | topol: misread | 18:57 |
| topol | :-) | 18:57 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: the goal of checking keystone.conf.sample into the repo is to provide documentation | 18:58 |
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| * dolphm 2 minutes, ish | 18:58 | |
| dstanek | gyee: it looks ok, i think the comment may in inaccurate though | 18:58 |
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| gyee | dstanek, you mean the encoding comment? | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung , https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77789/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77790/ | 18:59 |
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| dstanek | gyee: yes, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77215/4/keystoneclient/middleware/auth_token.py | 19:00 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung, sample config will move to a periodic task like translations. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 4 19:00:26 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-03-04-18.02.html | 19:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-03-04-18.02.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-03-04-18.02.log.html | 19:00 |
| dstanek | i put a comment there, but i don't think that needs to hold it up if we already have multiple +2s | 19:00 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ++ | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | we can move man page stuff to something similar (easily) | 19:00 |
| jeblair | infra folks? | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | woo! | 19:01 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:01 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:01 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, o/ | 19:01 |
| morganfainberg | ooh infra people! | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 4 19:01:22 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | agenda ^ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-25-19.02.html | 19:01 |
| jeblair | last meeting ^ | 19:01 |
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| mordred | morganfainberg: I've got split attention - can you ping me later about whatever you're talking about re: manpage above? | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | mordred send new-project service degredation annoucment | 19:02 |
| clarkb | o/ | 19:02 |
| morganfainberg | mordred, absolutely | 19:02 |
| jeblair | i think he did that | 19:02 |
| anteaya | I saw it | 19:02 |
| mordred | I did something | 19:02 |
| fungi | mordred: you sent an e-mail | 19:02 |
| jeblair | and i think on friday some projects were created... | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | how did all that work out? | 19:02 |
| clarkb | they were thanks to fungi and anteaya's hard work | 19:02 |
| jeblair | (a) do we need to alter the process? | 19:03 |
| anteaya | clarkb has a patch | 19:03 |
| jeblair | (b) did we learn anything that will help mordred in his work on manage_projects? | 19:03 |
| fungi | spotted some bugs, fixes have been proposed (i don't have links handy) | 19:03 |
| fungi | the process from last time worked well, i think | 19:03 |
| jeblair | fungi: ah cool | 19:03 |
| anteaya | that will be applied next time, that may mean we don't need to change the process, if it works | 19:03 |
| clarkb | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77314/ | 19:03 |
| fungi | we should repeat, clarkb has a pending patch we didn't test last time because it came moments too late | 19:03 |
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| clarkb | and I think it may fix the bulk of the non orchestration related trouble | 19:04 |
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| fungi | the other proposed patches were hand-applied on review.o.o and worked well | 19:04 |
| clarkb | we still need some ordering around processes on different nodes, but the bugs outside of that seem to be getting killed \o/ | 19:04 |
| fungi | i think i +2'd them all with comments if i used them during the run | 19:04 |
| jeblair | awesome! | 19:04 |
| jeblair | since i think the orchestration bits were what mordred had the most concrete ideas about, this should help a lot | 19:05 |
| fungi | all jeepyb patches | 19:05 |
| mordred | agree | 19:05 |
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| anteaya | I have a request for next round | 19:05 |
| anteaya | if we can start earlier I can be here for it, my taxi picks me up at 6pm on friday EST | 19:06 |
| fungi | i have a couple of bugs flagged i need to pick up for initial group members for the projects we created on friday, but those will get wrapped up today | 19:06 |
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| fungi | the next round will probably go faster. a lot of the time was spent assembling the list and doing last-minute reviewing | 19:06 |
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| anteaya | agreed | 19:06 |
| clarkb | fungi: I will try to review an dapprove those that were tested | 19:06 |
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| fungi | and we had a lot of changes waiting in the queue for that one since we'd put them off for some weeks | 19:07 |
| anteaya | do we have an etherpad started for next round? | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | zaro: ping | 19:07 |
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| fungi | we should probably copy the "needs work" section from the last one to seed the next | 19:07 |
| fungi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/new-projects-2014-02-28 | 19:08 |
| zaro | ohh yeah. here | 19:08 |
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| anteaya | fungi: k | 19:08 |
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| anteaya | I can mix up a new etherpad | 19:08 |
| jeblair | anteaya, fungi: thanks | 19:08 |
| jeblair | let's move on... | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #topic Convert gerrit db tables to UTF8 (zaro) | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Convert gerrit db tables to UTF8 (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| fungi | this time around it will be faster to build the list, since anybody wo isn't on the old etherpad doesn't have an excuse for not setting an appropriate topic | 19:08 |
| jeblair | zaro: what's the latest thinking on this? | 19:08 |
| zaro | ok. i think all the info is in the bug | 19:08 |
| zaro | let me find it | 19:09 |
| zaro | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/979227 | 19:09 |
| zaro | so i believe we left off on jeblair wanting some more info on where the dups are in the conversion. | 19:10 |
| zaro | #link https://launchpadlibrarian.net/165584391/case_insensitive_dups.txt | 19:10 |
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| mordred | oh - I think those are pretty easy to fix by hand :) | 19:11 |
| jeblair | mordred: how can you fix them? | 19:11 |
| zaro | did you see last sentense? "I'm not sure why line 1590340 is a duplicate because I could not find a duplicate entry for it but there are many more like this one." | 19:12 |
| mordred | the emails can just be fixed - you're right though - the usernames are a bit ugh | 19:12 |
| jeblair | mordred: the emails can't be fixed, actually -- the localpart in emails is case sensitive | 19:12 |
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| jeblair | it seems that the problem is that utf8 is not case sensitive and there is not a general cs utf8 collation | 19:12 |
| mordred | right. so, the local part is case -sensitive - but I don't believe that gmail behaves that way. that leaves us with just Daviey who might be a problem | 19:13 |
| jeblair | mordred: or others in the future | 19:13 |
| jeblair | there has to be a right solution to this | 19:13 |
| jeblair | what's the deal with the utf8_general_cs collation? http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=65830 | 19:14 |
| jeblair | how does that manifest in current and next ubuntu lts? | 19:14 |
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| zaro | is there a problem with using utf8_bin ? | 19:15 |
| zaro | mordred suggested that before | 19:16 |
| jeblair | mordred: what do you think about that? | 19:16 |
| mordred | bin doesn't understand sorting of international characters properly - but it should at least keep the things separate | 19:16 |
| mordred | I don't think username sorting is very important to us | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | mordred: i suspect you are right; i'm finding it difficult to come up with a place in gerrit that could bite us | 19:17 |
| jeblair | zaro: do you want to try that on review-dev and see if any problems manifest? | 19:17 |
| mordred | zaro: (thanks for reminding me) | 19:18 |
| jeblair | (i still think knowing the answer to whether utf8_general_cs will be available in next ubuntu lts would be useful) | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | we might be able to move to it later if it is | 19:18 |
| mordred | well, Davi Arnaut seems to believe that's it's an experimental collation anyway | 19:19 |
| zaro | i believe that i was testing with review-dev data before testing with review data. | 19:19 |
| jeblair | mordred: oh, so bad idea anyway? | 19:19 |
| zaro | i didn't have a problem with either when using utf8_bin | 19:19 |
| mordred | https://github.com/svagner/MM-Percona-Server/blob/master/config/ac-macros/character_sets.m4#L365 | 19:20 |
| zaro | i mean no errors poppped up during the conversion. | 19:20 |
| mordred | _cs has troubling comments aroudn it in the build files :) | 19:21 |
| mordred | so I vote for just doing utf8_bin | 19:21 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | unfortunately, I don't see any problems with utf8_bin, should I? | 19:22 |
| jeblair | i wonder what gerrit actually expects? | 19:22 |
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| jeblair | it seems very strange to have case-sensitive usernames. but it also seems strange to have case-insensitive change messages and emails... | 19:22 |
| jeblair | perhaps there is no coherent intent. :/ | 19:23 |
| jeblair | anyone object to utf8_bin? | 19:23 |
| fungi | seems okay to me | 19:23 |
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| mordred | it's really only relevant for sorting and for unique keys | 19:23 |
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| fungi | i suspect they just didn't put much thought into it | 19:23 |
| mordred | utf8-bin will still work for unique keys | 19:23 |
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| mordred | sorting might be weird in some edge-case contexts | 19:24 |
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| clarkb | but would work in most cases as long as the fields are consistentish? | 19:24 |
| mordred | because sorting will be essentially done numerically by underlying hex code | 19:24 |
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| clarkb | ah, so anything ascii would be fine | 19:24 |
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| mordred | pretty much | 19:24 |
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| fungi | and non-text fields would still sort normally | 19:24 |
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| mordred | yes | 19:24 |
| jeblair | clarkb: though it's asciibetical not alphabetical | 19:24 |
| jeblair | ABC,abc | 19:24 |
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| * fungi prefers c sort order anyway ;) | 19:25 | |
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| mordred | yeah | 19:25 |
| mordred | but | 19:25 |
| mordred | we don't REALLY show alpha-sorted list | 19:25 |
| clarkb | right most sorts in gerrit are changenumber/changeid or date based | 19:25 |
| jeblair | so it seems like it's worth a try, and if sorting strangely does show up some place, we can consider going back to latin1 or breaking the case-sensitive fields | 19:25 |
| fungi | i have to wonder whether any part of gerrit which cares about text sorting actually asks mysql to sort the results and uses that straight in the ui anyway | 19:26 |
| jeblair | clarkb: changeid (eg hexsha) sorts could be affected, but sorting a uuid seems weird. | 19:26 |
| fungi | in all probability they perform their own sorting on the requery results | 19:26 |
| jeblair | fungi: would not suprise me | 19:26 |
| fungi | query results | 19:26 |
| jeblair | #agreed convert gerrit tables to utf8_bin collation | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | #topic Upgrade gerrit (zaro) | 19:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Upgrade gerrit (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:27 | |
| jeblair | zaro: i'm guessing you're blocked on the buck stuff, yeah? | 19:27 |
| zaro | nope. although az2 has been a pain in the butt | 19:27 |
| jeblair | no kidding | 19:28 |
| clarkb | oh right, I was going to try and look into that more today | 19:28 |
| zaro | anyways, i believe all patches that are required are ready for review and just waiting for you gents to review them | 19:28 |
| jeblair | okay. nice. | 19:28 |
| jeblair | #topic Removing openstack-ci-admins ML from LP (fungi) | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Removing openstack-ci-admins ML from LP (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:29 | |
| fungi | i've had shell loops running for the past 24 hours trying to get image rebuilds in az2 to stick | 19:29 |
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| zaro | once all patches are merged then we can re-puppet review-dev to see if it all works. | 19:29 |
| fungi | i should have more accurately made that "deactivating openstack-ci-admins ml on lp" | 19:29 |
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| fungi | since the creation of the openstack-infra list on lists.o.o we have 4 messages in the archive for the openstack-ci-admins list | 19:30 |
| fungi | but we keep getting people caught in moderation e-mailing that about gate failures and requests for assistance on gerrit accounts | 19:30 |
| fungi | so it's an attractive nuisance. i think we should disable it (the archives would still be published for historical purposes) | 19:30 |
| jeblair | we might have that in some docs somewhere... :/ | 19:30 |
| fungi | but wanted to see whether there are objections to that | 19:30 |
| jeblair | that works for me. the infra list seems a reasonable place for that now. | 19:31 |
| fungi | fair point. i'll search teh wiki and git repos | 19:31 |
| clarkb | I don't object but we should grep for places we may be advertising it | 19:31 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: ping? (i think you said you had to run...) | 19:31 |
| fungi | #action fungi check for remaining recommendations of openstack-ci-admins | 19:31 |
| fungi | #action fungi disable openstack-ci-admins list | 19:31 |
| jeblair | #topic Monitoring of Infra Resources / Systems (morganfainberg) | 19:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Monitoring of Infra Resources / Systems (morganfainberg) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:32 | |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 19:32 |
| jeblair | morganfainberg: what's on your mind? | 19:33 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: im about | 19:33 |
| morganfainberg | There was a brief discussion that we might want to start adding monitoring of Infra resources (e.g. bots) and possibly some aggrgation alarms (not page duty, but at-a-glance we've hit a threshold) that takes into account more than the individual cacti graphs | 19:33 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: cool, we'll come back to you in a bit | 19:34 |
| morganfainberg | pleia2 said she had some thoughts on this as well | 19:34 |
| pleia2 | nothing has been hashed out yet, but I'm inclined to say we should set up Nagios for some monitoring | 19:34 |
| morganfainberg | this was added as an introduction to the additional monitoring - unfortunately I don't have much more at this point. | 19:34 |
| morganfainberg | with the milestone my focus is a little split :) | 19:34 |
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| clarkb | I see this potentially as supplementing the status pages | 19:35 |
| morganfainberg | clarkb, ++ | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | we don't actually have a bug for setting up monitoring beyond cacti | 19:35 |
| jeblair | okay, let me share my thoughts -- i'm not opposed to monitoring; i think it's very important (i set up cacti and graphite after all)... | 19:36 |
| clarkb | instead of needing humans to ping us and say is X broken 500 times during an outage. Have auomated checks that update a state page that everyone can check | 19:36 |
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| fungi | however, i think it would be a pretty significant time sink to tune, groom and polish | 19:36 |
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| morganfainberg | i also don't want Pager-duty esqe stuff | 19:36 |
| morganfainberg | we're volunteers, we don't need that | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | but i'm a little skeptical about the traditional nagios style monitoring.. | 19:36 |
| jeblair | morganfainberg: agreed about pager duty | 19:36 |
| morganfainberg | fungi, it wont happen overnight. and i wouldn't expect it to | 19:36 |
| fungi | a monitoring system which is half red and 95% is from false negative results is of use to noone | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | fungi: so I think we start out with a pretty minimal setup, checking disk space and ping kind of thing | 19:36 |
| jeblair | i also just deleted 15,000 emails from our servers that i have not read | 19:36 |
| pleia2 | disk space has bitten us more than once | 19:37 |
| fungi | sure--we already have all that information published and available, but not enough people to sit and stare at it | 19:37 |
| pleia2 | there are some nagios bots for IRC, so instead of email it could alert to IRC | 19:37 |
| jeblair | and my previous experience with things like nagios is that you spend a _lot_ of time adjusting paging thresholds for things like disk space and dealing with false positives.. | 19:37 |
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| fungi | i've worked jobs where those sorts of systems were a great advantage. we also had a noc with 50+ people staffed around the clock and a department to keep things from firing incorrectly | 19:38 |
| pleia2 | last I used it I was managing over 100 servers, but we don't have that many and we can target specific ones to monitor that we might be concerned about | 19:38 |
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| fungi | well, we actually have way more than 100 servers, but we may not care about much in the way of live metrics on most of them | 19:39 |
| jeblair | heh | 19:39 |
| pleia2 | right, well, "static" servers :) | 19:39 |
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| anteaya | here is my question, what will change as a result of this info? | 19:39 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: we get alerts if a server goes offline, or disk fills up | 19:40 |
| morganfainberg | fungi, i think this is something we start super small with, hit the bigger ticket items and use it in addition to status pages to help us identify issues a bit earlier than "oops" or "hey X is broken" (from 1000 people) | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | morganfainberg: yeah, that's what I'm thinking | 19:40 |
| fungi | and yes, we do have actual disk space utilization data, network interface error stats, and so on trended and accessible in raw form from cacti, which could be consumed by anyone wanting to give us a heads up on broken things too, which might be a good place to start | 19:40 |
| anteaya | but if a server goes offline, someone posts in infra | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: sadly now, we sometimes find out when someone joins channel and complains about something not working :\ | 19:40 |
| anteaya | and as a team, we have fairly good channel coverage | 19:40 |
| jeblair | i like monitoring, but i'm not keen on alerting in our environment. i'd be more happy with status pages that anyone can check. i'm less keen on email or irc alerts. | 19:40 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: that's kind of embarassing | 19:40 |
| jeblair | pleia2: why? they usually tell us before nagios would anyway | 19:41 |
| sdague | so the issue is there are some normal fail modes, which mostly I find at 6am over coffee. So sean-nagios is something I'd like to stop doing | 19:41 |
| anteaya | I don't see how that is going to change | 19:41 |
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| morganfainberg | sdague, ++ | 19:41 |
| jeblair | sdague: normal failure modes should be corrected... | 19:41 |
| anteaya | since someone telling us will probably happen at teh same time as the alert anyway | 19:41 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, not that we want you to stop being you...or stop enjoying coffee | 19:41 |
| jeblair | take the logs as an example | 19:41 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: hurts my sysadmin feelings, I should know what my servers are up to, not have users tell me | 19:41 |
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| morganfainberg | jeblair, i think this can be used to help also identify the normal failmodes over a longer period of time. | 19:41 |
| fungi | sdague: you would prefer to find those failures neatly organized on a status page over coffee instead? | 19:41 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, with the right tool. | 19:41 |
| jeblair | sdague, morganfainberg: we have had the log server fill up on disk space before. our solution to that is to _stop using the log server and put logs in swift_. | 19:42 |
| sdague | fungi: yeh, so I don't need to spend brain power deducing them | 19:42 |
| morganfainberg | how many times has X failed? | 19:42 |
| sdague | or - hey... is my irc bot dead? | 19:42 |
| jeblair | sdague, morganfainberg: that's a big project and is going to take some time, but putting our _very_ limited resources into writing and reviewing and implementing that change is WAY better in my opinion than investing in monitoring it | 19:42 |
| fungi | debug irc bot, apply fixes, repeat | 19:42 |
| nibalizer | an irc bot for alerting could squack in a different channel than the -infra channel | 19:42 |
| nibalizer | that way its very opt-in | 19:42 |
| fungi | nibalizer: i especially love the circular meta concept of an irc bot warning you that your irc bots are broken ;) | 19:43 |
| nibalizer | i would be more inclined to check that, especially it being event driven, than a status webpage | 19:43 |
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| pleia2 | fungi: hehe | 19:43 |
| nibalizer | fungi: no worse than the nagios email to tell you email is down | 19:43 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, this is why i brought it up. i know we have limited resources, but it's worth considering | 19:43 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, even if the answer is "not now, maybe later" | 19:44 |
| fungi | nibalizer: like jeblair, i basically already have no time to read all the e-mails our systems send me. so sure, no worse than that ;) | 19:44 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, or "lets do something else and see if we need it still down the line" | 19:44 |
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| sdague | fungi: honestly, I don't want it as alerts, I want status page | 19:44 |
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| morganfainberg | sdague, ++ that was my initial thought | 19:44 |
| pleia2 | nagios can do a public-ish status page | 19:44 |
| morganfainberg | pleia2, we could use any number of tools for it. | 19:45 |
| sdague | we already have all sorts of data we put in zuul status to let us know when things are crazy | 19:45 |
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| sdague | and I think there are a class of other things that knowing if something just bust, ends up saving me 2 - 3 hrs debugging before fungi gets up and can check on something | 19:46 |
| jeblair | pleia2: will it offend your inner sysadmin if that page is red all the time? how much time will you spend adjusting filessystem usage thresholds? | 19:46 |
| jeblair | sdague: let's try to identify what those are and if we can expose them specifically... | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: I guess I haven't had the same experiences as you, my Nagios is quite green | 19:46 |
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| fungi | i think if there are people who want to spear-head adding a nagios server and doing the tuning necessary to get it usable, then i'm not directly opposed... but that's probably lots and lots of little reviews to tweak the configuration accordingly | 19:46 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, pleia2, i've had both experiences | 19:46 |
| sdague | jeblair: sure, my instinct would be this is incremental, in the same way that something like er was | 19:47 |
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| morganfainberg | jeblair, pleia2, the "everything red" experience is usually because you try and add everything at once and never get any of them right | 19:47 |
| pleia2 | morganfainberg: yeah | 19:47 |
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| morganfainberg | jeblair, or no time to spend on it at all | 19:47 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, some orgs are like that :P | 19:47 |
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| fungi | most of the problem is that there are things which are easy to monitor with very low false negative rates, but those are also the things which just about never have a problem. the things which are more useful to find out about are also the things which need a lot of thought around threshholds | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | fungi: agreed (with the last 2 things you said) | 19:48 |
| sdague | fungi: yeh, I don't care about the easy to monitor things. I care about the things that I bug you about. Like er bot. | 19:48 |
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| morganfainberg | sdague, ++ | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | sdague: i suspect what you want to know about er-bot is almost impossible to monitor in nagios... | 19:49 |
| fungi | sdague: and i think that's an example of "let's figure out why this is broken" while finding out a little more quickly that it broke isn't quite as beneficial over the long term | 19:49 |
| sdague | jeblair: out of the box, for sure | 19:49 |
| pleia2 | yeah, I have bot monitors but they're all "see if this process is running" | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: they are almost always running. sometimes they are netsplit, sometimes they are stuck due to an irc library bug. i just yesterday started upgrading irclib to see if we can fix that... | 19:50 |
| sdague | yeh, I could write a plugin for this. The biggest thing right now is there was really no infrastructure to register against. | 19:50 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: yeah, that's what I was afraid of | 19:50 |
| jeblair | but all that came from reading log files | 19:50 |
| * pleia2 nods | 19:50 | |
| jeblair | sdague: and the solution to "we hit an irclib bug" isn't to write a nagios plugin | 19:51 |
| sdague | but I mostly consider this unit testing for some services | 19:51 |
| sdague | jeblair: sure | 19:51 |
| pleia2 | sdague: maybe we should create a wishlist bug to brainstorm on? | 19:51 |
| pleia2 | then we can come back to this and evaluate | 19:51 |
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| morganfainberg | pleia2, sdague, i like that. | 19:52 |
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| jeblair | okay, i don't think we have consensus, but i think you know the concerns. and i'd like to move on to the next topic | 19:52 |
| fungi | well, in some organizations "monitor to let us know every time this fails" is normal operating procedure, which stems from never having time to debug failures and just accepting that things break and you're going to fight fires, bring them back up asap and maybe sometimes discover why they broke in the process | 19:52 |
| jeblair | #topic Infrastructure Priorities | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Infrastructure Priorities (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:53 | |
| sdague | fungi: yeh, I don't think we are that org though | 19:53 |
| jeblair | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infrastructure-priorities | 19:53 |
| jeblair | there are a lot of new people around... | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | and when we say things like something is or isn't a priority for our limited resources, it's possible it seems like we're making it up as we go along... | 19:54 |
| jeblair | but we aren't. :) | 19:54 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:54 |
| jeblair | it turns out we set priorities fairly clearly actually at the summits | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | but we're really bad about communicating those between summits | 19:54 |
| jeblair | i'm hoping storyboard will make that better | 19:54 |
| mordred | I was just about to say storyboard | 19:54 |
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| morganfainberg | yay storyboard! | 19:55 |
| fungi | mordred: it's there! | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | but for now, here's a list of things based on the last (approximately) 2 summits | 19:55 |
| * ttx sighs | 19:55 | |
| jeblair | so if you're looking for something to work in in infra, check the bugs, but these are our highest priority items | 19:55 |
| * mordred hands ttx some wine and cheese and a sausage | 19:55 | |
| * mordred agrees | 19:55 | |
| jeblair | and if you're looking to prioritize reviews, this same list will help | 19:55 |
| * mordred supports everyone who is in channel working on the list | 19:56 | |
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| * mordred will consider kindly anyone who does | 19:56 | |
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| jeblair | and understand that things not on the list may well be good ideas, but i'm personally always thinking about this when i'm writing and reviewing | 19:56 |
| nibalizer | ok | 19:57 |
| jeblair | and would love it if we could focus on completing some of these before we get too distracted | 19:57 |
| nibalizer | fwiw puppetboard 1,2 are done and 3 is in review | 19:57 |
| pleia2 | \o/ | 19:57 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: thank you for the reminder, I need to hunker down on the last backup bits and close that bug | 19:58 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: yeah, i think that's going to unblock a lot of work | 19:58 |
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| anteaya | fungi: did you ever have a patch up on this? Write Jenkins Job which sends the salt command from salt-trigger slave | 19:58 |
| clarkb | fungi: after feature freeze do you think we can sit together and get the sensitive stuff backups sorted? | 19:58 |
| fungi | anteaya: that part is a) extremely trivial at this point and b) useless until we can have the reactor-based dependencies implemented | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | with FF this week, I'm also hoping we can do another bug day next week - Tuesday March 11th at 17:00 UTC | 19:59 |
| anteaya | fungi: k | 19:59 |
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| fungi | clarkb: sure thing | 19:59 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone, sorry we didn't get to nibalizer's thing, but i think that topic will be more relevant next week; hopefully we'll have a puppetboard by then! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 4 20:00:19 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-03-04-19.01.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-03-04-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-03-04-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
| anteaya | missed the #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/new-projects-2014-03-07 | 20:00 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | t | 20:00 |
| markmc | hey | 20:00 |
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| stevebaker | \o | 20:01 |
| lisaclark1 | \o | 20:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 20:01 |
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| gokrokve_ | \o | 20:01 |
| reaperhulk | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | russellb, annegentle, mikal, mordred, jgriffith, vishy, markmcclain, lifeless, sdague, dhellmann : around ? | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| stanlagun | hi | 20:01 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| lisaclark1 | o/ | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| igormarnat | hey | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
| ativelkov | o/ | 20:01 |
| annegentle | ho | 20:01 |
| * jaypipes watches from sidelines | 20:01 | |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 4 20:02:03 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | Been reordering the topic to account for some people's availability | 20:02 |
| ttx | topics* | 20:02 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #topic Murano incubation request | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Murano incubation request (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/027736.html | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/murano-incubation-status | 20:03 |
| ttx | I'll kick this off with my feedback from thread | 20:03 |
| ttx | in the thread I said I had two issues with this, both linked to the fact that this is a complete solution built on top of OpenStack | 20:03 |
| ttx | (1) The complete solution (or product) approach make it span multiple programs, as it doesn't match the "basic component" landscape we currently have | 20:03 |
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| ttx | (2) The "solution built on top of OpenStack" aspect makes me think this should live as an OpenStack consuming application rather than in the integrated release. | 20:03 |
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| ttx | I mean, I think it's a bit early for us to tackle that space, while we still have large "basic application blocks" functionality uncovered. | 20:04 |
| ttx | So IMHO it fails the "measured progression for OpenStack as a whole" requirement. As would Solum if they applied right now. | 20:04 |
| ttx | but maybe that's just me | 20:04 |
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| gokrokve_ | Thanks for bringing these concerns. | 20:05 |
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| ttx | TC members, comments ? | 20:05 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I've struggled with some of this myself | 20:06 |
| russellb | yeah | 20:06 |
| jgriffith | ttx: ie the same thoughts that you have | 20:06 |
| jgriffith | about tackling the "new" space so to speak | 20:06 |
| ttx | I think Murano is great and should exist. I'm not convinced it should be made a part of "OpenStack" at this point. | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | those seem like legit concerns; I've only started looking at the implementation details fairly recently | 20:06 |
| russellb | there were also comments from the Images and Orchestration programs, and i'd like to see all the relationships clearly worked out | 20:06 |
| gokrokve_ | As for 1) we technically can split Murano to have Catalog part and application package processing part. | 20:06 |
| russellb | i didn't get the impression that consensus was reached yet | 20:06 |
| gokrokve_ | Murano is mature technology which already can be and already used by the customers. | 20:07 |
| ttx | jgriffith: Basic orchestration of resources (Heat) is as high as I would go up the stack right now | 20:07 |
| sdague | yeh, that's my bigger concern, how much of this is really efforts that should be part of Images and Orchestration | 20:07 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:07 |
| stevebaker | I'd like to see more of the Murano orchestration solutions handled in heat in a declaritive way | 20:07 |
| ttx | jgriffith: at least until we get most basic infrastructure and app building blocks covered | 20:07 |
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| russellb | ^^^ see, if heat PTL has concerns, that's probably a red flag that's it's too early | 20:07 |
| vishy | the workflow portion scares me | 20:08 |
| zaneb | it seems to me that the application packaging DSL and the catalog part are quite separable | 20:08 |
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| vishy | considering we have mistral/heat/taskflow | 20:08 |
| gokrokve_ | zaneb: They are. | 20:08 |
| vishy | we have too much workflow related stuff with too much overlap | 20:08 |
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| jgriffith | vishy: +1 | 20:09 |
| ttx | vishy: yes, it seems a bit early to slash the innovation and movement in that space | 20:09 |
| gokrokve_ | Actually we want to understand where Murano fits better in OpenStack. | 20:09 |
| russellb | vishy: ttx: +1 | 20:09 |
| gokrokve_ | and integrat it with corresponding OpenStack programs. | 20:09 |
| vishy | that said the application catalog seems useful. It has some overlap with glance/heat | 20:09 |
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| ttx | gokrokve_: I could definitely see a cross-project session at the next design summit to clarify that between all the affected projects | 20:10 |
| gokrokve_ | ttx: Thanks. That would be helpful. | 20:10 |
| markwash | the overlap with glance in terms of storing fixed representations of application packages feels quite straightforward to me, FWIW | 20:11 |
| ttx | we had some of the same problem with clustering between savanna and trove | 20:11 |
| zaneb | vishy: agree, I think that you could have a single service as the catalog for both Heat templates and Murano applications | 20:11 |
| ttx | markwash: yes, that part was, I think , well clarified in the thread | 20:11 |
| zaneb | and the probably belongs in the glance program somehow | 20:11 |
| russellb | markwash: yes i like that idea | 20:11 |
| zaneb | that* | 20:11 |
| randallburt | FWIW we had that discussion at the Glance mid-summit and there was consensus that application catalog stuff belongs in Glance. | 20:11 |
| sdague | markwash: +1 | 20:11 |
| gokrokve_ | zaneb: +1 | 20:11 |
| * stevebaker looks forward to glance cataloging all the things | 20:12 | |
| vishy | so in that case murano could be a kind of a bridge between glance and heat | 20:12 |
| markwash | +1, storing more than just disk images in glance seems straightforward to me at this point, sorry I have been a slacker on updating the mission and program | 20:12 |
| gokrokve_ | So we can keep aside the orchestartion part and make Application Catalog as a first step. | 20:12 |
| ttx | gokrokve_: so in summary, i would be -1 for incubating the way it is now, but +1 for actively engaging with other projects in that area and see how you could cooperate | 20:12 |
| jeblair | vishy: ++ | 20:13 |
| vishy | the funny thing will be is if we have a DB stack and a hadoop stack in the Application Catalog | 20:13 |
| vishy | because then what are trove and savanna for? | 20:13 |
| ttx | and I'm willing to help in making sure you have space to discuss that cooperation at the next summit | 20:13 |
| russellb | if the glance part is the most straight forward, maybe starting there this cycle is the best place to start? | 20:13 |
| vishy | maybe for the management features of dbs and data processing? | 20:13 |
| annegentle | vishy: lightbulb moment | 20:13 |
| zaneb | vishy: just APIs? | 20:13 |
| vishy | the deployment happens through murano in the future, but runtime mgmt is done by the services? | 20:14 |
| jaypipes | there is also a UX component to Murano that is quite slick. | 20:14 |
| gokrokve_ | ttx: It will be great to have a feedback on where Murano should fit better. We do not consider to be incubated immediately but sometime in Juno release. | 20:14 |
| zaneb | russellb: I'm not sure that the glance component is that useful without the application definition component? | 20:14 |
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| gokrokve_ | Before Juno we can actively discuss App Catalog with other project to find better aligment. | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: unless it starts out being a catalog of heat templates | 20:15 |
| ttx | gokrokve_: we plan to have an avenue for long cross-project sessions at the next Design Summit | 20:15 |
| SergeyLukjanov | vishy, zaneb, in both trove and savanna there a lot of domain ops like db backups, jobs execution management and etc. | 20:15 |
| randallburt | zaneb: glance would simply be a repository for that definition the same way it will be for heat templates and images | 20:15 |
| gokrokve_ | It looks like App Catalog itself is valuable. | 20:15 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: +1 | 20:15 |
| markwash | jaypipes: I think the UX component raises an interesting question about program placement | 20:15 |
| jaypipes | indeed. | 20:15 |
| zaneb | btw I can imagine the application definition part ending up as a project in the orchestration program | 20:15 |
| markwash | it doesn't seem inconceivable to me for the images program to have a UX component | 20:15 |
| randallburt | Horizon == UX? | 20:15 |
| zaneb | but I would like to see closer collaboration with the TOSCA TC | 20:16 |
| ttx | randallburt: Horizon = Dashboard | 20:16 |
| jaypipes | randallburt: yes, horizon is one project in the uX program, IIUC | 20:16 |
| annegentle | I'd like to see a UX program where GUIs fit in | 20:16 |
| randallburt | jaypipes: k | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | I'd like to consider extending the heat HOT spec to support some kind of contract/interface, so a stack can define a component or app | 20:16 |
| ttx | jaypipes: no UX program yet | 20:16 |
| jaypipes | no? | 20:16 |
| jaypipes | ok, sorryr. | 20:16 |
| sdague | UX != UI | 20:16 |
| jaypipes | yes, I was trying to make that point, sdague | 20:16 |
| annegentle | sdague: true dat | 20:16 |
| sdague | but I'm not sure what UX means in the murano case, honestly | 20:16 |
| annegentle | sdague: a visual catalog < jaypipes? | 20:17 |
| sdague | are you talking about the custom user ui | 20:17 |
| gokrokve_ | So. do we agree that App Catalog is a right way and it will be valuable for OpenStack? | 20:17 |
| jaypipes | sdague: murano has a component that *builds* user interfaces that allow a wizard-like flow for constructing application packages. | 20:17 |
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| stevebaker | gokrokve_: yes, but it may be best to start with a template catalog until we know what an "App" is | 20:17 |
| randallburt | jaypipes: but its similar/identical to what was added to Horizon for Heat IIRC. | 20:17 |
| sdague | jaypipes: so that's cool, but I'm not sure I'd say being cool makes it something we wan part of the integrated openstack release that we co-gate on | 20:18 |
| ttx | I'm still not convinced that applications-as-a-service belongs in openstack at this point, at least not until we get better at covering the lower layers | 20:18 |
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| jaypipes | randallburt, sdague: no disagreement. just pointing out that Murano has components that bridge a number of programs (or programs-to-be I guess) | 20:18 |
| sdague | yeh, gokrokve_ I think I share ttx's point of view | 20:18 |
| jaypipes | which makes it difficult to tackle. | 20:18 |
| annegentle | ttx: +1 | 20:18 |
| gokrokve_ | stevebaker: We will support heat template use case too. This is a question of application definition format. | 20:18 |
| sdague | which is there is a bunch that murano does that we'd rather have as features in existing openstack components | 20:18 |
| sdague | lets do that | 20:18 |
| markwash | fwiw I would be interested in incubating the user-facing component of the catalog in a Catalog-nee-Images program | 20:19 |
| sdague | then reevaluate what remembes | 20:19 |
| sdague | remains | 20:19 |
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| * jaypipes would like to see the Mistral DSL, Murano DSL, and HOT languages aligned more... | 20:19 | |
| markwash | but perhaps that is overreach | 20:19 |
| zaneb | jaypipes: +1 | 20:19 |
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| gokrokve_ | ttx: Application Catalog is a logical step after Heat. You need to store application definitions somewhere, so catalog seems pretty good solution for that. | 20:20 |
| jaypipes | But it's tough to align those things when it's not entirely clear where Murano "belongs" in the integrated program world. | 20:20 |
| ttx | We should make sure those various projects talk together and prepare a common future... But my understanding of "measured progression" is we should complete the lower levels of the stack before going too far up | 20:20 |
| jaypipes | also, SOlum's DSL too... | 20:20 |
| jaypipes | ttx: ya, no disagreement on that point. | 20:20 |
| ttx | gokrokve_: yes. It's the logical step after Heat. But I just don't think we should go after Heat. Not until we get basic pieces in like a queue service | 20:21 |
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| jeblair | ttx: agreed; trove and savannah have both made compelling cases they are building blocks for cloud application developers. this seems like one more step up | 20:21 |
| markmc | ttx, nice, I like that | 20:21 |
| ttx | Basic orchestration of resources (Heat) is as high as I would go up the stack right now | 20:21 |
| markmc | ttx, the measure progression == lower levels of the stack first | 20:21 |
| jeblair | dns would be nice... | 20:21 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:21 |
| ttx | jeblair: yes | 20:21 |
| sdague | yeh, dns | 20:21 |
| randallburt | jeblair: + | 20:21 |
| ttx | It's not as if we were really missing incubation candidates either | 20:21 |
| tsufiev | markwash: do you mean something like murano dynamic ui feature? | 20:22 |
| ttx | BUT I want to facilitate cooperation in the space Murano is addressing | 20:22 |
| ttx | hence the proposal to have one of our cross-project sessions focused on that space | 20:22 |
| markwash | tsufiev: not necessarily | 20:23 |
| jeblair | ttx: yeah, it seems like we have a concrete suggestion to see how much of this can be done with glance and heat, and to support that collaboration at the summit. that sounds good and constructive. | 20:23 |
| ttx | Looks like TC members are in agreement ? | 20:23 |
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| dhellmann | +1 | 20:24 |
| markmcclain | +1 | 20:24 |
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| markmc | yep | 20:24 |
| russellb | +1 | 20:24 |
| vishy | +1 | 20:24 |
| mordred | +1 | 20:24 |
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| ttx | #agreed Murano is slightly too far up the stack at this point to meet the "measured progression of openstack as a whole" requirement. We'll facilitate collaboration in that space by setting up a cross-project session to advance this at the next design summit | 20:25 |
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| ttx | gokrokve_: also if you need ATC passes to get the right people in Atlanta, just let me know | 20:25 |
| gokrokve_ | ttx: Sure. Thanks! | 20:26 |
| ttx | OK, moving on to next topic... | 20:26 |
| ttx | #topic Barbican final incubation decision | 20:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Barbican final incubation decision (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:26 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77647/ | 20:26 |
| jraim | just finished my keynote so I'm here for questions | 20:26 |
| ttx | jraim: I'm the king of timing | 20:26 |
| ttx | We agreed to put final incubation decision on Barbican immediately back on the agenda when the last QA requirements would have been cleared | 20:27 |
| ttx | With the merging of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74530/ it looks like it's ready now | 20:27 |
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| ttx | jraim: you confirm ? | 20:27 |
| jraim | I believe that we've covered everything at this point | 20:27 |
| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Barbican/Incubation | 20:28 |
| jraim | devstack was the last hurdle and I think we got all the patches merged | 20:28 |
| * russellb has no outstanding concerns on this one | 20:28 | |
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| ttx | jraim: hgetting a KDS featureset will be instrumental in graduating for the K release | 20:28 |
| sdague | jraim: where is the job running? | 20:28 |
| jeblair | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77689/ | 20:29 |
| jraim | there was some back and forth on whether is was a non-voting job or not. The patch reflected the consensus feedback we got I think | 20:29 |
| jeblair | not apparently on barbican | 20:29 |
| jeblair | oh, it's a check job | 20:29 |
| sdague | http://logs.openstack.org/89/77689/2/check/gate-barbican-devstack-dsvm/2a0d9f4/console.html#_2014-03-03_23_30_57_332 | 20:29 |
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| sdague | so it seems like it doesn't actually work | 20:30 |
| sdague | that's the last patch that merged from barbican | 20:30 |
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| jeblair | sdague: it did hit the local bug | 20:31 |
| jraim | there was an issue with the new version of the iso lib revving under us | 20:31 |
| sdague | ok, fair, do we have a version that did work? | 20:31 |
| jraim | not sure if this was related | 20:32 |
| jraim | chadlung: you on? can you talk about the devstack testing you did? | 20:32 |
| lifeless | ttx: sorry, EPRINTING | 20:32 |
| lifeless | erm | 20:32 |
| lifeless | ESPRINTING | 20:32 |
| ttx | PRINTING? | 20:32 |
| * dansmith chuckles | 20:32 | |
| ttx | heh, that excuse sounds better | 20:32 |
| jeblair | sdague, jraim: i just ran recheck no bug on it | 20:32 |
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| jeblair | so we can see if it works now | 20:32 |
| ttx | (suspense) | 20:32 |
| sdague | ttx: well that will be 2hrs at this point | 20:33 |
| ttx | hah | 20:33 |
| chadlung | The gating is difficult to test as we don't have that infrastructure to directly inspect. However, I'm checking on a VM with DevStack to get more details. Is not a big issue, should be solved soon. | 20:33 |
| sdague | it looks like only the last 3 changes ran | 20:33 |
| ttx | anyway, the review is up | 20:33 |
| ttx | Please vote on that review, I'll approve it when it reaches enough +1s | 20:33 |
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| markmcclain | so while we're waiting… I do have one question/observation | 20:33 |
| ttx | you can hold your vote until you're confident the check test exists | 20:33 |
| jraim | markmcclain: sure | 20:33 |
| markmcclain | I don't see any entries to aligning with the libraries that other programs use | 20:34 |
| chadlung | The actual integration with Barbican is working, the sanity check on the API is not working but the service is running and if I ping it it is up. So just need to see what the issue is. | 20:34 |
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| jeblair | yeah, i for one would like to see a check result where i can interpret whether we're effectively testing what we think we are | 20:34 |
| sdague | chadlung: yeh, the point was that it demonstrably worked in a gate like env | 20:36 |
| jraim | markmcclain: we are using global reqs at this point so I don't think we are using anything that's not being used by other services? | 20:36 |
| mordred | jraim: is there an update on the pecan/falcon thing at all? | 20:36 |
| sdague | so seeing an actual success on the barbican API is important | 20:36 |
| jeblair | also, does this work with python 2.6? | 20:36 |
| markmcclain | jraim: the global requirements includes a few libs that grandfathered in | 20:36 |
| markmcclain | jraim: for example falcon | 20:36 |
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| jraim | mordred markmcclain: right now we use Falcon and we're aren't currently planning any changes. We're open to a discussion about it | 20:36 |
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| kgriffs | fwiw, I am expecting a report on our Pecan evaluation by the end of the week | 20:36 |
| kgriffs | (marconi) | 20:36 |
| jraim | other projects use falcon and I thought we were waiting on a eval of Pecan | 20:36 |
| jraim | ha kgriffs beat me to it :) | 20:36 |
| kgriffs | I asked a new openstack contributor to lead the project to minimize bias | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | no other integrated project uses falcon | 20:36 |
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| ttx | no integrated project uses falcon. | 20:36 |
| jraim | dhellmann: my understanding is that most other projects don't use pecan either? | 20:36 |
| markmc | jraim, would you like to ultimately be part of convergence on this stuff across openstack? | 20:36 |
| sdague | dhellmann: correction "no integrated" | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | the rest of the community is moving to pecan, and I would expect any incubated project to look at that seriously | 20:36 |
| markmc | jraim, even if it means switching from falcon | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | sdague: yes, thank you | 20:37 |
| jraim | markmc: yep. I'm certainly willing to make changes as needed | 20:37 |
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| jraim | markmc: I have no intrinsic tie to either project, if we need to move, we can do that | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | jraim: the integrated projects that don't use pecan yet are working on it | 20:37 |
| jraim | I would like to see kgriffs study as soon as possible | 20:37 |
| kgriffs | we are looking at it seriously, to be sure, but IMO it is important to allow due diligence when vetting something as a standard | 20:37 |
| ttx | markmcclain, markmc: that would be a graduation requirement (alignment on relevant libs) | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | kgriffs: I spent a year doing that vetting | 20:37 |
| kgriffs | jraim: I will ask balaji to post to the ML | 20:37 |
| jraim | kgriffs: great | 20:38 |
| zaneb | apropos of nothing, it occurs to me that we should be asking projects applying for incubation to have created Heat resource plugins. This often shows up problems in the API design, and it would be nice to catch them early. | 20:38 |
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| sdague | zaneb: I'm only comfortable doing that once heat actually has real gating on it | 20:38 |
| jraim | dhellmann: do you have some docs I could look at? I haven't seen a good study of the two and I would love to have more info | 20:38 |
| markmc | zaneb, we settled on that being a post-graduation-before-first-integrated-release thing | 20:38 |
| markmc | zaneb, in a review I put up recently | 20:38 |
| * markmc digs up the link | 20:39 | |
| dhellmann | jraim: docs about pecan and falcon? | 20:39 |
| zaneb | markmc: ok, fair enough | 20:39 |
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| jraim | dhellmann: or just a general 'why pecan' would be somewhat helpful, but pecan v falcon would obviously be ideal since that's the scenario we are in | 20:39 |
| markmc | zaneb, https://review.openstack.org/68258 | 20:39 |
| mordred | jraim: so - I think the thing here, not to belabor a point | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | jraim: we can discuss some of that after the meeting | 20:39 |
| zaneb | sdague: it's not a gating thing, it's a "does this API design work" thing | 20:40 |
| markmcclain | ttx: I agree it is a grad requirement, but I do think we should make sure we note when the are library incompatibilities | 20:40 |
| jraim | dhellmann: great | 20:40 |
| ttx | markmcclain: I think it's good to set up graduation expectations too | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | jraim: start with https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/havana-common-wsgi which has a link to the grizzly session, too | 20:40 |
| sdague | zaneb: that's fine, but until heat actually has real gating, I don't feel it's ok to have heat imposed requirements on a lot of other projects | 20:40 |
| sdague | it goes 2 ways | 20:40 |
| mordred | we're kinda trying to avoid re-opening the can of worms every time there is a new project | 20:40 |
| jraim | dhellmann: great, I'll do some reading and come bug you with questions :) | 20:41 |
| mordred | jraim: ++ | 20:41 |
| zaneb | sdague: there's a non-voting gate job now and it passes | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | jraim: cool! | 20:41 |
| sdague | zaneb: gating == voting, and it didn't as of last time I looked. :) But we can take that offline | 20:41 |
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| zaneb | markmc: that doesn't mention anything about Heat resources though | 20:41 |
| markmc | zaneb, revision 2 - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/68258/2/reference/incubation-integration-requirements | 20:42 |
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| zaneb | ah | 20:42 |
| jraim | mordred: I can understand that. When we started barbican, pecan wasn't really a standard | 20:42 |
| jraim | mordred: however, I believe we need to strike a balance between allowing innovation and trying to limit complexity | 20:43 |
| jraim | mordred: which I htink is an ongoing oslo challenge that I'd like to help with | 20:43 |
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| ttx | OK, I propose we move on. The review is in gerrit now, the test is supposed to work. barbican knows that graduation expectations will include KDS featureset and potentially convergence to Pecan | 20:43 |
| chadlung | jraim: The testing is identical to what Solum is doing | 20:43 |
| sdague | jraim: when we are talkign about potentially integrated project #14 - we need to move a lot more towards limit coplexity | 20:43 |
| markmc | #link https://review.openstack.org/77647 <- barbican incubation vote | 20:44 |
| ttx | We'll vote on it asynchronously | 20:44 |
| jeblair | ttx: is "potentially" a problem in that sentence? | 20:44 |
| ttx | thx markmc | 20:44 |
| jeblair | ttx: i'd expect it to be a grad requirement | 20:44 |
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| zaneb | sdague: you're correct, but IMO missing the point. the benefit is not to Heat, it's to the prospective project to know that their API design is sound for orchestration ahead of time | 20:44 |
| ttx | jeblair: well, we can set graduation requirements anytime we want | 20:44 |
| jeblair | so i wonder if we need to be more formal about whether we all agree on that and if we need to communicate that to barbican | 20:44 |
| ttx | jeblair: we don't have to set them now, as long as jraim explains he is willing to look into it | 20:44 |
| jeblair | ttx: okay, but we've spent a lot of time talking about how we should be nice and try to set the expectations early | 20:44 |
| jraim | jeblair: I'm happy to just assume we need the Heat templates for now and if that changes we can re-evaluate | 20:45 |
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| markmcclain | yeah I'd rather set early vs project feeling like we changed the rules mid cycle | 20:45 |
| jeblair | jraim: i'm talking about pecan, actually | 20:45 |
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| ttx | jeblair: sure, it's just not part of the thing we vote on -- we might need another document | 20:45 |
| jeblair | i can put in a signing statement with my vote, i suppose. :) | 20:46 |
| ttx | as in explicit graduation requirements | 20:46 |
| jeblair | but i'm a little worried about not voting -1 now on something like that. | 20:47 |
| jraim | jeblair: oh sorry. If it is a requirement, then we'll move. I don't have a strong opinion other than it would require some work on our part to move over | 20:47 |
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| jeblair | jraim: i think the tc needs to collectively have an opinion on this, and i don't think we've expressed in strongly enough yet. | 20:48 |
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| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:48 |
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| ttx | jeblair: we need to do a better job at tracking specific graduation requirements, yes | 20:48 |
| jeblair | jraim: i don't want you to be caught up in the middle of that, so i'd like to go aheand and say to you that at least i personally think it should be a req | 20:48 |
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| dhellmann | jraim: right, that's why I think bringing it up earlier is better | 20:48 |
| markmcclain | jeblair: +1 | 20:48 |
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| jraim | jeblair: fair enough. I'm certainly going to start looking closer, especially at the work that kgriffs is doing | 20:49 |
| jeblair | jraim: hopefully as a group we'll get make a decision one way or the other more officially soon | 20:49 |
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| jraim | jeblair: sounds good. If we decide it is a requirement, then we'll change Barbican | 20:49 |
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| ttx | OK, we'll comment and vote on the review | 20:49 |
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| ttx | and it's good to spell out expected grad requirements early | 20:50 |
| ttx | moving on to next topic | 20:50 |
| jraim | ttx: agreed :) | 20:50 |
| ttx | #topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Neutron | 20:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Neutron (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:50 | |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IcehouseProjectReviewNeutron | 20:50 |
| ttx | This is a the continuation of last week's discussion, as we were short on time | 20:50 |
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| sdague | um, with 10 minutes left? | 20:50 |
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| ttx | and we are again, short in time | 20:50 |
| russellb | may want to just punt | 20:50 |
| sdague | can we push it next week then and make it early | 20:50 |
| russellb | yes | 20:51 |
| sdague | because I feel like this needs to start off on the first slot | 20:51 |
| sdague | to give it time to breath | 20:51 |
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| ttx | OK then. i'll miss next meeting but you can do that without me | 20:51 |
| markmc | these reviews are probably low priority anyway | 20:51 |
| markmc | as in, they don't have a deadline | 20:51 |
| markmcclain | sdague: so neutron is like wine now? | 20:51 |
| ttx | they are lwoer priority yes | 20:51 |
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| ttx | #topic Minor governance changes | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Minor governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:51 | |
| sdague | markmc: sure, though doing so before summit would be good | 20:51 |
| sdague | so plans can be made | 20:51 |
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| ttx | * Add pycadf and oslo-cookiecutter to Oslo Program (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76602/) | 20:52 |
| ttx | dhellmann approved it, so I'll approve this one unless someone yells about it very soon | 20:52 |
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| dhellmann | We missed pycadf when we listed the other adoptions, and the cookiecutter repo is for making new libs. | 20:52 |
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| ttx | will approve as soon as I get a breath from crazyweek | 20:52 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:53 | |
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| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 20:53 |
| jeblair | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/028783.html | 20:53 |
| russellb | i move that we fast forward past feature freeze. i am tired. | 20:53 |
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| jeblair | just a heads up that i started a thread about moving from freenode to oftc | 20:53 |
| markmcclain | russellb: +1 | 20:53 |
| jeblair | that will likely result in a tc motion | 20:53 |
| * dhellmann has registered his nick | 20:53 | |
| ttx | russellb: i move that next week i'm back on snow | 20:53 |
| russellb | ttx: jealous | 20:54 |
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| jeblair | based on how that thread goes. so we'll have a chance to vote on the decision and timing | 20:54 |
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| ttx | jeblair: I voiced my very few concerns there | 20:54 |
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| dansmith | I haven't seen the OFTC questions addressed | 20:54 |
| dansmith | about whether they're a smaller target or better prepared | 20:54 |
| annegentle | ttx: I agree with your concerns | 20:55 |
| sdague | yeh, jeblair do you have an idea about how to get that answer? | 20:55 |
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| jeblair | dansmith: yep. i think it's going to be a hard question to answer due to limited visibility into the operations of both groups. | 20:55 |
| annegentle | jeblair: seems like a reactive rather than proactive plan (reacting to ddos) | 20:55 |
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| jeblair | annegentle: i'm trying to be proactive, actually... | 20:56 |
| russellb | don't let the terrorists win | 20:56 |
| annegentle | jeblair: yeah I think your plan is well-laid, but the root motivation seems off | 20:56 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i registered all the channels when freenode was unavailable for an entire day | 20:56 |
| ttx | I fear we are trading our old cadillac that doesn't work that well for a second-hand car that looks like it will be working better. | 20:56 |
| dansmith | yeah | 20:56 |
| jeblair | annegentle: and was considering whether we needed to switch under duress... | 20:56 |
| jeblair | annegentle: but we've been talking about this off and on in infra for a long time | 20:56 |
| dansmith | and many of us will have to straddle both networks for a long time (and some of us have to be on freenode forever anyway) | 20:57 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: then I think an emergency plan is more what we'd need than a full switch | 20:57 |
| jeblair | and i'd like to have a plan, and possibly execute it, before it becomes even more of an issue | 20:57 |
| jeblair | annegentle: i think an emergency plan carries a very high risk of failure | 20:57 |
| jeblair | with lots of people left behind | 20:57 |
| ttx | jeblair: +1 | 20:57 |
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| sdague | so when was freenode unavailable for an entire day? | 20:57 |
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| annegentle | jeblair: I guess I see it more as a communications outage that you would then route temporarily as your plan | 20:58 |
| dansmith | unavailable doesn't happen, AFAIK, but it is unusable at times :) | 20:58 |
| jeblair | sdague: i think a week ago saturday? | 20:58 |
| ttx | jeblair: my only gripe is that i'm unsure OFTC won't catastrophically fail the first day it becomes a target. freenode has a lot of experience handling those situations | 20:58 |
| mordred | the fact that the oftc admins are actually good to work with would be part of the pro-active part of thigns | 20:58 |
| jeblair | dansmith: _definitely_ completely unavailable. | 20:58 |
| annegentle | jeblair: rather than give up on a working solution | 20:58 |
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| jeblair | dansmith: all of the servers in rotation were rejecting connections | 20:58 |
| dansmith | jeblair: heh, okay | 20:59 |
| jeblair | mordred: yes, the admins have been extremely responsive | 20:59 |
| sdague | mordred: can you reach out about the ddos question? | 20:59 |
| ttx | jeblair: maybe we could get some advice from OFTC people that they are actually routinely working around those too | 20:59 |
| sdague | if they admins are good to work with | 20:59 |
| dansmith | +1 for OFTC admins over freenode admins, FWIW :) | 20:59 |
| lifeless | maybe we should just run a freenode node ? | 20:59 |
| mordred | sdague: sure. | 20:59 |
| lifeless | e.g. in racksapce | 20:59 |
| ttx | lifeless: there is actually already one | 20:59 |
| jeblair | lifeless: only freenode runs freenode nodes (they remote admin them) | 21:00 |
| ttx | (freenode node at rax) | 21:00 |
| ttx | anyway, time is up | 21:00 |
| ttx | follow up on thread ! | 21:00 |
| jeblair | sdague, dansmith, mordred: will ask in #oftc | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 4 21:00:38 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-03-04-20.02.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-03-04-20.02.txt | 21:00 |
| sdague | jeblair: thanks! | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-03-04-20.02.log.html | 21:00 |
| ttx | thanks everyone | 21:00 |
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| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, stevebaker, david-lyle, markmcclain, slicknik: around ? | 21:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 21:01 |
| jd__ | o/ | 21:01 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 21:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 21:01 |
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| markwash | o/ | 21:01 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:01 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 4 21:01:42 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:01 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:01 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | #topic Feature freeze is upon us (or not) | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Feature freeze is upon us (or not) (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| ttx | Winter is coming | 21:02 |
| ttx | Feature freeze shall hit at the end of this day (i.e. tomorrow morning Europe time) | 21:02 |
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| ttx | Still plenty of blueprints in-flight | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:02 |
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| ttx | I plan to wait a few hours tomorrow morning to let the gate pipe empty a bit | 21:03 |
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| ttx | But there will be a number of blueprints that will just need a couple extra hours | 21:03 |
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| ttx | It's hard to tell how many of those there will be, though | 21:03 |
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| ttx | Does anyone here think that waiting an extra day would significantly change the numbers ? | 21:04 |
| ttx | if it won't change anything, then we should just bite the bullet and cut on time | 21:04 |
| * dhellmann looks at his open items | 21:04 | |
| ttx | and then handle coherence and critical features using the FFE mechanism | 21:04 |
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| ttx | During the 1:1s nobody asked for a delay | 21:05 |
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| ttx | and the gate has held up (congrats jeblair and crew) | 21:05 |
| dhellmann | yeah, kudos to the infra team, very stable | 21:05 |
| ttx | the bottleneck was not really in the infra | 21:05 |
| stevebaker | ttx: so does FFE mean a blueprint gets until rc1 to land? | 21:05 |
| ttx | stevebaker: no | 21:05 |
| ttx | stevebaker: it means it gets until an agreed deadline to land | 21:06 |
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| ttx | ususally, you'll hear things like "as long as it merges this week, I'm fine with it" | 21:06 |
| ttx | because disruptive stuff has to land ASAP. Close to RC1 you might just introduce regressions, or new critical bugs | 21:06 |
| stevebaker | ok | 21:07 |
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| jd__ | we're pretty good on the Ceilomeer side FWIW, no need for extra delay | 21:07 |
| ttx | RC1 is when you don't have release-critical bugs left. Your features have to land before enough for you to be able to catch the bugs in them if any | 21:07 |
| ttx | OK, I don't hear anyone asking for an extra day, I suspect it wouldn't make that much of a difference | 21:08 |
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| markmcclain | I'd rather stick to time and deal with exceptions | 21:08 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 21:08 |
| david-lyle | +1 | 21:08 |
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| ttx | You should set things that you preemptively would like to ask a FFE for to "high". I'll push those to RC1 for further discussion, and defer to Juno anything else | 21:09 |
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| ttx | we can still adjust later | 21:09 |
| ttx | but that would be the base line | 21:09 |
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| ttx | I'll cut the branches tomorrow morning Eu time | 21:09 |
| ttx | and then catch up with you about FFEs during the day | 21:09 |
| ttx | another long day ahead :) | 21:09 |
| ttx | I would like to go through as many of them as possible, since I'm in vacation next week | 21:10 |
| ttx | and I want to facilitate the job of the people who will replace me | 21:10 |
| ttx | whom I should probably confirm now | 21:10 |
| ttx | err | 21:11 |
| ttx | OK. any question on that ? | 21:11 |
| russellb | replace or cover for you? :-) | 21:11 |
| ttx | cover* | 21:11 |
| russellb | ok good | 21:11 |
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| ttx | mostly using common sense to discuss FFEs | 21:11 |
| * russellb nods | 21:11 | |
| ttx | sdague volunteered some time ago, I hope he is still up for it :) | 21:12 |
| sdague | ttx: sure | 21:12 |
| ttx | yay | 21:12 |
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| ttx | sdague: Those weeks sure passed fast | 21:12 |
| sdague | yeh, no lie | 21:12 |
| ttx | #topic Clean Log enforcement, take 2 (sdague) | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Clean Log enforcement, take 2 (sdague) (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:12 | |
| ttx | sdague: floor is yours | 21:13 |
| sdague | thanks | 21:13 |
| sdague | back during i2 we started enforcing no *new* errors in logs | 21:13 |
| sdague | because we spent a month building a whitelist | 21:13 |
| sdague | then the giant 2 weeks of gate hell happened | 21:13 |
| sdague | and we turned it off, because it was add additional races | 21:14 |
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| sdague | however, we really do want to figure out a way to make forward progress on this | 21:14 |
| sdague | so the new proposed idea is to enforce 1 log file at a time | 21:14 |
| sdague | so if we find a log file is clean, we lock it down | 21:14 |
| sdague | like n-cond.txt | 21:15 |
| sdague | it's clean, lock it down | 21:15 |
| dhellmann | I like the incremental approach | 21:15 |
| markmcclain | that's sound very manageable | 21:15 |
| sdague | so a change which causes an ERROR or TRACE on a successful test run, is marked a failure | 21:15 |
| ttx | once clean, always clean | 21:15 |
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| sdague | then tackle these one at a time | 21:15 |
| sdague | instead of the whitelist approach | 21:15 |
| sdague | and mostly wanted to get buy in from PTLs on the approach | 21:16 |
| russellb | willing to give it a shot | 21:16 |
| sdague | before we start enforcing | 21:16 |
| russellb | maybe not this week, heh | 21:16 |
| russellb | but sounds like a reasonable approach to see how it goes | 21:16 |
| stevebaker | I like this plan | 21:16 |
| sdague | yeh, probably I'd vote to start it next week | 21:16 |
| sdague | and figure out what we can safely lock down | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | sdague: we're doing something similar in oslo with python 3 support in modules | 21:17 |
| dhellmann | the pattern makes me feel good about the approach :-) | 21:17 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: cool :) | 21:17 |
| sdague | ok, that was it. Mostly open for questions if people had them. | 21:17 |
| sdague | or see what objections exist | 21:17 |
| ttx | sounds good | 21:18 |
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| ttx | looks like everyone likes it | 21:18 |
| ttx | next topic ? | 21:18 |
| ttx | #topic Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints | 21:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:18 | |
| ttx | markmcclain: you mentioned Neutron IPv6 patches state potentially adversely affecting Horizon | 21:19 |
| markmcclain | yes | 21:19 |
| markmcclain | I expect a few the IPv6 patches will land Wed/Thu | 21:19 |
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| markmcclain | and amotoki who works on both projects said there were a horizon items waiting on them | 21:20 |
| ttx | markmcclain: so that's part of a blueprint that would get an FFE ? | 21:20 |
| ttx | or just bugfixes? | 21:20 |
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| markmcclain | yes | 21:20 |
| ttx | david-lyle: you have a blocked blueprint on that, right | 21:20 |
| david-lyle | yes, neutron-subnet-mode-support | 21:20 |
| ttx | so this would likely need an FFE as well | 21:21 |
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| ttx | ok, it's High already$ | 21:21 |
| david-lyle | yes | 21:21 |
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| ttx | markmcclain: you already have 3 blueprints on https://launchpad.net/neutron/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 21:22 |
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| ttx | markmcclain: was wondering if those were abusive placement or preemptive FFE strikes | 21:22 |
| ttx | Ukraine-style | 21:22 |
| markmcclain | pre-emptive | 21:22 |
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| ttx | ok | 21:23 |
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| ttx | markmcclain: so we'll review them tomorrow as well | 21:23 |
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| markmcclain | yes | 21:23 |
| ttx | david-lyle: I think you can move neutron-subnet-mode-support to icehouse-rc1 at this point, unlikely to be unblocked in time | 21:24 |
| david-lyle | ack | 21:24 |
| ttx | Any other inter-project blocked work that this meeting could help unblock ? | 21:24 |
| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:25 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, o/ | 21:25 |
| ttx | kgriffs, SergeyLukjanov, devananda: o/ | 21:25 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, everything done for i3 https://launchpad.net/savanna/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 21:25 |
| kgriffs | o/ | 21:25 |
| ttx | https://launchpad.net/savanna/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 21:25 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: OK, will cut your branch first thing tomorrow | 21:25 |
| ttx | https://launchpad.net/marconi/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 21:26 |
| kgriffs | we have 2-3 patches in flight but they should land shortly | 21:26 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, docs/tests are planned for rc1 + several bug fixes and probably several improvements to one of the plugins | 21:26 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, thx | 21:26 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: planning to enforce feature freeze ? | 21:26 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: ok, that answers my question | 21:26 |
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| ttx | kgriffs: OK, when the page is all green (implemented / Fix committed) I'll cut | 21:27 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, yup, I think that we need only one/several FFEs and we're ok with trying to have FF | 21:27 |
| kgriffs | ttx sounds like a plan | 21:27 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, the main FFE is for renaming :) | 21:27 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: you're the sole decider on your FFEs, fwiw | 21:27 |
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| ttx | I don't really need to be involved, except for friendly advice | 21:27 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, ok, great, thx | 21:27 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, I think that I'll have some questions :) | 21:28 |
| ttx | kgriffs: just move off to -rc1 the stuff that didn't make it | 21:28 |
| kgriffs | ttx: does that mean we can still land more features between i-3 and rc1 ? | 21:28 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, heh, I've already -2'd some own patches with comment that it'll be better to postpone to Juno | 21:29 |
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| ttx | kgriffs: yes you can, nobody really depends on you. The earlier you switch to bugfix mode the better the quality of the end release though | 21:29 |
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| kgriffs | ok, I was planning on just saying the FF for i-3 is FF for rc-1 as well | 21:29 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, is it correct that FF starts technically right after the milestone cut? | 21:30 |
| devananda | ttx: o/ | 21:30 |
| kgriffs | and only allowing critical bug fixes into the branch | 21:30 |
| ttx | kgriffs: yes | 21:30 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: yes | 21:30 |
| ttx | devananda: https://launchpad.net/ironic/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 21:31 |
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| devananda | ttx: last bp up there needs to be bumped (will do in a moment) | 21:31 |
| ttx | devananda: just move non-completed stuff off i3 to icehouse-rc1 so that the page is all green | 21:31 |
| devananda | ttx: ack | 21:31 |
| ttx | (implemented / Fix committed) | 21:31 |
| ttx | devananda: when it's in that situation I'll cut | 21:31 |
| ttx | the MP branch | 21:31 |
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| devananda | will do right now | 21:32 |
| ttx | then you may or may not attach feature-freezing semantics to that milestone | 21:32 |
| devananda | would haev done this morning, but been distracted by the tripleo sprint | 21:32 |
| ttx | enjoy it while you can :) | 21:32 |
| devananda | hehe. we will be feature-freezing as far as major features | 21:32 |
| devananda | but continuing to iterate on bugs as we add CI and integrate with tripleo | 21:32 |
| ttx | sounds good | 21:33 |
| ttx | any question on that ? | 21:33 |
| devananda | nope | 21:33 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, probably, it'll be clearer to move FF to the March 4 in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule? | 21:33 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, I can do it if you ack | 21:33 |
| ttx | isn't it on Match 4 already ? | 21:33 |
| ttx | FeatureFreeze, StringFreeze (Mar 4) | 21:33 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: looks good to me ? | 21:34 |
| devananda | ttx: do I need to create the RC1 targets? | 21:34 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, heh, see it now, 01:34am makes me inattentive | 21:34 |
| ttx | devananda: ah. Thought I did that. | 21:34 |
| ttx | devananda: will fix now. Same for Marconi and Savanna | 21:35 |
| devananda | thanks | 21:35 |
| kgriffs | rock on | 21:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, I've already created rc1 in savanna | 21:35 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: coolthx | 21:36 |
| ttx | done | 21:36 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:36 | |
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| ttx | As discusse last week, design summit session suggestion site shall open on Thursday/Friday | 21:37 |
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| ttx | If there are no other questions or last-minute topic, let's enjoy 22 extra minutes | 21:38 |
| ttx | i can certainly use them | 21:38 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, great, thank you | 21:38 |
| dhellmann | sounds good | 21:38 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:39 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 4 21:39:15 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:39 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-03-04-21.01.html | 21:39 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-03-04-21.01.txt | 21:39 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-03-04-21.01.log.html | 21:39 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone ! | 21:39 |
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