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| epico | hello | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Daisy_ | Good morning, epico | 00:00 |
| epico | good morning | 00:00 |
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| Daisy_ | only us? | 00:02 |
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| Daisy_ | Then let's start. | 00:02 |
| Daisy_ | #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting | 00:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 00:03:05 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Daisy_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 00:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 00:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 00:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting' | 00:03 |
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| Daisy_ | epico: how is the message ID progress? | 00:03 |
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| epico | Daisy_: I commented it. | 00:03 |
| Daisy_ | since only us, let's talk about the blueprint message ID. | 00:03 |
| Daisy_ | can you give me a link? | 00:04 |
| epico | okay | 00:04 |
| Daisy_ | are you able to go the summit this time? | 00:04 |
| epico | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/oslo/+spec/log-messages-id | 00:04 |
| epico | not, I think. | 00:04 |
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| Daisy_ | What's your point in the blueprint? | 00:06 |
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| Daisy_ | I think, some people don't agree with this one: filename#methodname#lineno, right? | 00:07 |
| epico | I think the message id generation is hard to meet all requirements, so maybe just return the English version is okay. | 00:07 |
| Daisy_ | hehe. | 00:07 |
| epico | yes, some one dis-agree with it. | 00:07 |
| Daisy_ | epico: how do you think of error code instead of message id? | 00:07 |
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| epico | Daisy_, will we need to manually maintain an error code list? | 00:09 |
| Daisy_ | I haven't thought much details. Error code and its docs could be generated automatically. | 00:10 |
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| Daisy_ | if we use some special tag, and extract tag and comments into a document, I think, it will help. | 00:11 |
| epico | I saw some commercial software did this, but they have a long list of error code, and developer need to check the doc every time. | 00:11 |
| Daisy_ | ok. You don't like it? | 00:11 |
| epico | just some random thought, bicbw. | 00:11 |
| Daisy_ | hehe | 00:11 |
| epico | not | 00:12 |
| Daisy_ | it looks like UTC 0000 maybe too early for some people to get in. | 00:12 |
| Daisy_ | I'm going to start the discussion about meeting and time in our ML. | 00:12 |
| epico | the problem is when developers return the error code, need to check the list to return the code. | 00:12 |
| epico | Daisy_, great | 00:12 |
| Daisy_ | yes, you are right. | 00:13 |
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| Daisy_ | The exception name can help, other than a exception number. | 00:13 |
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| epico | maybe | 00:13 |
| Daisy_ | So maybe an error code in a text format may help other than numbers. | 00:13 |
| epico | still a list to check in order to find the right one... | 00:14 |
| Daisy_ | Yes. | 00:14 |
| epico | or just English one. ;) | 00:14 |
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| Daisy_ | hehe. | 00:14 |
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| Daisy_ | epico, I have to close this meeting if nobody else join. | 00:14 |
| epico | no problem | 00:15 |
| Daisy_ | Thank you for joining. We can continue the discussion about IDs off line. | 00:15 |
| epico | thanks | 00:15 |
| Daisy_ | Thank you. | 00:15 |
| Daisy_ | #endmeeting | 00:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 00:15 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 00:15:43 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 00:15 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-03-20-00.03.html | 00:15 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-03-20-00.03.txt | 00:15 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-03-20-00.03.log.html | 00:15 |
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| enikanorov__ | neutron lbaas meeting in 3 minutes | 13:57 |
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| enikanorov__ | hi | 14:00 |
| enikanorov__ | #startmeeting neutron lbaas | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 14:00:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is enikanorov__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas' | 14:00 |
| obondarev | o/ | 14:00 |
| avishayb | hi | 14:00 |
| crc32 | hello. | 14:01 |
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| edhall | hi | 14:01 |
| enikanorov__ | hope most of you saw the requirements page | 14:01 |
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| enikanorov__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/LBaaS/requirements | 14:01 |
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| enikanorov__ | let's start with discussing the list | 14:01 |
| enikanorov__ | does anyone have any questions on that? | 14:02 |
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| jorgem | hello | 14:02 |
| enikanorov__ | jorgem: hi | 14:02 |
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| enikanorov__ | jorgem: we're going to start with the feature list you've made | 14:02 |
| obondarev | should the list include multiple vips per pool in any way? | 14:03 |
| jorgem | awesome. did everyone have a chance to add on to it? | 14:03 |
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| obondarev | i guess it should | 14:03 |
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| vjay | hi | 14:03 |
| enikanorov__ | obondarev: yes. that feature is so basic that i missed its absense | 14:03 |
| enikanorov__ | hi vjay | 14:03 |
| jorgem | obondarev: if we can add it so it isn't specific to implementation I don't see why not | 14:04 |
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| obondarev | enikanorov__: yeah, just thought about it too | 14:04 |
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| jorgem | It would be nice to capture all requirements in the doc…basic. complex, etc. | 14:05 |
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| sballe | hi | 14:05 |
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| enikanorov__ | i think the wiki page is actually a good start | 14:05 |
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| enikanorov__ | right now we are yet to implement a very basic features that every lb vendor supports | 14:05 |
| jorgem | One thing we need is for everyone to add use cases. I was going to start working on that this coming week from my team's perspective | 14:06 |
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| enikanorov__ | those i marked with High priority | 14:06 |
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| enikanorov__ | jorgem: good. i think for some of the features the use cases are obvious | 14:06 |
| jorgem | Correct. | 14:06 |
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| jorgem | enikanorov: I can back up priorities with data from our current Cloud LB offering | 14:07 |
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| sbalukoff | Hi guys. | 14:07 |
| enikanorov__ | hi sbalukoff | 14:07 |
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| enikanorov__ | any other questions on requirements? | 14:07 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: What do you think? For example, 90%ish of our load balancers are HTTP/HTTPS which means working on requirements for those would make sense. However, it would be nice to to get all operators' data like that | 14:08 |
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| sballe | I'll add some use cases around our requirements for more managed services features in LBaaS | 14:08 |
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| enikanorov__ | jorgem: now 'requirements' means requirements for the features itself? | 14:09 |
| enikanorov__ | intially we were discussing the object model/API and those features are requirements for the obj model | 14:09 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: not really, I was thinking backing up priorities with data | 14:09 |
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| jorgem | enikanorov: The object model discussion should be had, but going forward is what I mean | 14:10 |
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| enikanorov__ | well, I have put priorities based on development considerations. with existing object model we can't really move forward | 14:10 |
| enikanorov__ | we may however add feature or two, but to add another feature - we'd need to rewrite lots of code | 14:10 |
| enikanorov__ | it's better to do that in consistent manner where we modify the object model first and then build upon it | 14:11 |
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| jorgem | enikanorov: Correct, I wanted this page to help organize stuff going forward. Right now we have current development efforts going on and a roadmap. | 14:11 |
| enikanorov__ | ok. | 14:11 |
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| enikanorov__ | sballe: what is ' more managed services features in LBaaS'? | 14:12 |
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| jorgem | enikanorov: Do you think breaking the requirements from the two listed perspectives makes sense? Or would you like to break it down another way? | 14:13 |
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| jorgem | I figured Openstack is for operators which is why I broke it down into user & operator requirements | 14:14 |
| sbalukoff | +1 to that | 14:15 |
| enikanorov__ | you mean to lists of operators and users requirements? | 14:15 |
| enikanorov__ | yep, that makes sense | 14:15 |
| german_ | +1 | 14:15 |
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| jorgem | Correct, there are three right now under operator requirements. However, they can probably be broken down further. | 14:15 |
| sballe | enikanorov, it just means that as a service provider (hp public cloud)we need to be able ot offer LBaaS as a black box to users. For example we are currently using Libra and the service is manging the HA, resiliency, etc. | 14:15 |
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| sballe | enikanorov, I will send somethign out to the mailing list for discussion | 14:16 |
| enikanorov__ | sballe: ok, please do | 14:16 |
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| sballe | jorgem, +1 FROM ME TOO | 14:17 |
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| enikanorov__ | let's get back to the obj model discussion | 14:17 |
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| enikanorov__ | did you guys have a chance to look over the wiki page? | 14:18 |
| sbalukoff | Note that having separate user vs. operator requirements might lend itself to having separate user / operator API experiences. (ie. "operator features" actually make up that "admin API" we've talked about before.) | 14:18 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: Sounds good to me. Anything pop out from the doc that affects the object model discussion? | 14:18 |
| sbalukoff | The requirements one? Yes. | 14:18 |
| sbalukoff | Oh, the object model one? | 14:18 |
| s3wong | enikanorov__: has the wiki page changed since last week? | 14:18 |
| sbalukoff | Yes on that, too. | 14:18 |
| edhall | monitoring and measurement | 14:19 |
| enikanorov__ | s3wong: no, but last week some folks were not familiar | 14:19 |
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| blogan | is there a new wiki for the object model or the same one? | 14:19 |
| blogan | ah okay | 14:19 |
| blogan | nvm | 14:19 |
| enikanorov__ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/LBaaS/LoadbalancerInstance/Discussion | 14:20 |
| s3wong | enikanorov__: during last week's meeting there seems to be some consensus on model #2, IIRC? | 14:20 |
| sbalukoff | I'm still in favor of option 3, but I've only a minor nit-pick with option 2 on that page, too. Functionally, 2 and 3 are almost the same, but the terminology in 3 makes more sense. | 14:20 |
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| jorgem | s3wong: +1 Correct | 14:20 |
| enikanorov__ | sbalukoff: i tend to agree on teminology. i'm in favor of #2 from impl perspective (mode simple) | 14:21 |
| rm_work | +1, #2 looks the closest to what I'd like to see as well (also minor nitpicks) | 14:21 |
| sbalukoff | I like that in #2, pool isn't inherently tied to a load balancer. | 14:21 |
| enikanorov__ | sbalukoff: yes, that was actually changed recently | 14:21 |
| enikanorov__ | after we've discussed that with Sam | 14:21 |
| sbalukoff | Oh, cool! | 14:21 |
| s3wong | I believe the consensus is that #2 is best for backward compatibility reason | 14:21 |
| enikanorov__ | markmcclain: hi | 14:22 |
| blogan | what terminology do you guys not prefer? | 14:22 |
| enikanorov__ | avishayb: hi | 14:22 |
| enikanorov__ | blogan: that's about having IP address on the loadbalancer instead of VIP | 14:22 |
| sbalukoff | I prefer to call a tcp service listening on a specific tcp port a 'listener' | 14:22 |
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| avishayb | enikanorov__ : hi | 14:23 |
| sbalukoff | And yes, have the ip address associated with a higher-level object than the object associated with the tcp port. | 14:23 |
| blogan | sbalukoff: what about to a less technical user? i'm not so sure listener would be very user friendly | 14:23 |
| enikanorov__ | blogan: aws has listener | 14:24 |
| sbalukoff | (ie. "load balancer" in 2) | 14:24 |
| enikanorov__ | avishayb: was Sam going to attend? | 14:24 |
| blogan | enikanorov: and i would argue aws is not user friendly | 14:24 |
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| sbalukoff | blogan: Really, a user using a load balancer won't know what a "listener" is? | 14:24 |
| sbalukoff | :/ | 14:24 |
| avishayb | enikanorov__ : no | 14:24 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: It can be made more simple no? | 14:25 |
| avishayb | enikanorov__ : he is on his way back from the US now | 14:25 |
| rm_work | I would still prefer LoadBalancer to be the high-level object, but maybe I'm old fashioned | 14:25 |
| enikanorov__ | avishayb: i see... | 14:25 |
| blogan | sbalukoff: i've dealth with many users of our clb that don't have a technical backgroudn | 14:25 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: Last week you mentioned we needed a core developer to weigh in on the conversation. Do we have one? | 14:25 |
| enikanorov__ | rm_work: agree here. So i'm concerned that we don't have folks who have objections here on the meeting | 14:25 |
| sbalukoff | Mostly, I'd like to see the term "VIP" mean "virtual IP" or "floating IP" like it does in other contexts. Having it mean what is essentially the same as "listener" when something else more closely matches "virtual IP" is going to be confusing. | 14:26 |
| enikanorov__ | jorgem: yes | 14:26 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: awesome | 14:26 |
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| blogan | sbalukoff: i do agree though if vip is to be called vip it should probably have an ip address associated with it | 14:26 |
| enikanorov__ | jorgem: markmcclain has some objections to the proposal #2 | 14:26 |
| enikanorov__ | so we still need to either convince him or get explanations | 14:27 |
| rm_work | Yes, VIP should be Virtual IP, and LoadBalancer should be the root object (equivalent to Listener, but easier terminology) | 14:27 |
| sbalukoff | explanations with specific points to address would be great. | 14:27 |
| rm_work | re-defining VIP for this project is… odd | 14:27 |
| enikanorov__ | sbalukoff: exactly. | 14:27 |
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| sbalukoff | It's hard to make someone happy if they don't share that. | 14:28 |
| sballe | enikanorov, are the objections by markmcclain listed anywhere? | 14:28 |
| crc32 | Should ip_address be on vip instead of loadbalancer. | 14:28 |
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| enikanorov__ | sballe: in ML threads i believe | 14:28 |
| sbalukoff | crc32: Only if vip *doesn't* have the TCP port associated with it, as well. | 14:28 |
| sballe | ok thanks. I'll look for them | 14:28 |
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| sbalukoff | Specifically, whichever object has the IP address, and whichever has the tcp port should be different objects, no matter what we call them. | 14:29 |
| enikanorov__ | sballe: so basically some folks say loadbalancer object is an implementation detail that we should not expose to the user | 14:29 |
| sbalukoff | (They're going to have too many not-in-common attributes, which is why I say that.) | 14:29 |
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| enikanorov__ | because user doesn't care | 14:29 |
| enikanorov__ | sbalukoff: agree. | 14:29 |
| rm_work | so per crc32, shouldn't IP Address and tcp_port be flipped? | 14:30 |
| crc32 | so the loadbalancer represents the listening ip while the vip represents the port? | 14:30 |
| rm_work | port on the LB and IP on the VIP? | 14:30 |
| crc32 | that means the loadbalancer has only 1 ip but bunch of ports? | 14:30 |
| enikanorov__ | rm_work: crc32: IP on LB, port on the VIP | 14:30 |
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| enikanorov__ | 1 ip and many ports, correct | 14:30 |
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| jorgem | To crc32's point, I'd like to load balancer on both IPV4 and IPv6 addresses (per requirements doc), but #2 has the ip address on the load balancer. How can we address this concern? | 14:30 |
| jorgem | for example | 14:31 |
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| rm_work | enikanorov__: but the opposite should be true | 14:31 |
| crc32 | so if a user wants multi ips then they use multi vips I guess. | 14:31 |
| enikanorov__ | jorgem: we can't | 14:31 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: :( | 14:31 |
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| enikanorov__ | jorgem: so here's the problem | 14:31 |
| rm_work | still not understanding the redefining of VIP to mean… not VIP | 14:31 |
| enikanorov__ | we need to store neutron port in some object (LB or VIP) | 14:31 |
| rm_work | right, so store that in LB? and put IP with VIP.... | 14:32 |
| sbalukoff | rm_work: This is to try to maintain backward compatibility, I think. | 14:32 |
| rm_work | alright, maybe there's something I don't understand about the way neutron works (i'm kind of new), but still not getting why VIP != Virtual IP (and thus storing the IP Address) | 14:33 |
| sbalukoff | rm_work: However, I'm with you on not understanding why we don't take this opportunity to fix the terminology. :) | 14:33 |
| crc32 | sorry I meant to say if a user wants multi IPs they need multi loadbalancers then. | 14:33 |
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| crc32 | Yea layer1 ports and tcp/udp parts are confusing me. | 14:34 |
| enikanorov__ | crc32: the idea is that user doesn't care about whether it is multiple LBs or not | 14:34 |
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| enikanorov__ | i don't share that opinion, btw | 14:34 |
| rm_work | we may have very different users <_< | 14:34 |
| sbalukoff | Yep. Mine seem to understand what a 'listener' is, for example. ;) | 14:34 |
| enikanorov__ | i think if user cares about amount of LBs they consume - then it's good to give them such ability to group resources to 1 backend | 14:35 |
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| crc32 | If by listener you mean listening on port 80 then sure I'm all for it. | 14:35 |
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| enikanorov__ | listener is tcp port + protocol + protocol parameters (like ssl certs, etc) | 14:35 |
| sbalukoff | crc32: Yep, that's what I mean with 'listener' | 14:35 |
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| jorgem | enikanorov: So this one of the reasons I wanted requirements doc. People have different understandings on #1) terminology and #2) how a load balancer should be abstracted. If requirements are met from all parties (hypothetically speaking) then we should be able to come to a consensus…I hope :) | 14:36 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: I'm with you on the wanting IPv4 + IPv6, as well, in my model I solve that as having IPv6 address be an additional option attribute that goes in the same object that has the IPv4 address. | 14:37 |
| enikanorov__ | jorgem: agree | 14:37 |
| sbalukoff | Pretty simple solution, if you ask me. :/ | 14:37 |
| sdague | when we get to a natural break point, in the flow, I need to raise an issue with lbaas causing resets in the gate | 14:37 |
| enikanorov__ | btw, on second thought i might be wrong | 14:37 |
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| sbalukoff | But then, I'm also not as familiar with 'neutron ports' as I could be, eh. | 14:37 |
| enikanorov__ | looking at the neutron model i see that network may have subnets version both 4 and 6 | 14:37 |
| enikanorov__ | which means that port may have addresses from 2 subnets of different ip versions | 14:38 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: A glossary would be a good thing for the wiki too I think. | 14:38 |
| sbalukoff | jorgem: I also agree that talking requirements is the way to go to get consensus. | 14:38 |
| sballe | +1 on the glossary | 14:38 |
| enikanorov__ | ok, i'll add such page | 14:38 |
| rm_work | +1 glossary, +1 reqs | 14:38 |
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| crc32 | +1 glossary | 14:38 |
| tvardeman | +1 glossary | 14:38 |
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| blogan | -1 glossary | 14:38 |
| blogan | j/k | 14:38 |
| enikanorov__ | #help | 14:38 |
| rm_work | someone can define for me what VIP means here <_< | 14:38 |
| sbalukoff | +1 glossary | 14:38 |
| german_ | +1 glossary | 14:38 |
| openlurk | +1 glossary | 14:39 |
| enikanorov__ | #action enikanorov to add glossary to lbaas wiki | 14:39 |
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| sbalukoff | rm_work: Yes. In 'legacy LBaas' it means ip address + tcp port + protocol attributes. We're contemplating breaking it apart into separate objects so it doesn't mean that anymore. | 14:39 |
| jorgem | enikanorov: I think we need to pin point which requirements affect the converstation and then perhaps continue it on the ML? | 14:40 |
| rm_work | WTB: VIP = Virtual IP, how much rework would that actually be? insanity? | 14:40 |
| crc32 | Listener sounds lijke a good term. | 14:40 |
| sbalukoff | rm_work: The complication is that 'VIP' is a very meaningful attribute in the legacy code. | 14:40 |
| rm_work | hmm, so | 14:40 |
| rm_work | we're 100% committed to backwards compatibility from this point? no chance of a "v2"? | 14:41 |
| sbalukoff | Well, ans the legacy API. Again, we're trying not to break backward-compatibility. | 14:41 |
| enikanorov__ | jorgem: yes, it mostly were done like 3 meetings ago, but from that time attendees have changed :) | 14:41 |
| enikanorov__ | jorgem: obj model discussion targets two major features: multiple vips per pool and multiple pools per vip (L7 rules) | 14:41 |
| sbalukoff | I would be willing to break backward compatibility to get the features (ie. requirements) we need. But then again, we don't have a whole lot of users on Neutron LBaaS yet (precisely because it doesn't have all the features our customers need, yet.) | 14:42 |
| enikanorov__ | bw compatibility is important | 14:42 |
| rm_work | right, i thought at this point would be the best time to DO api breaks | 14:42 |
| rm_work | before it is in heavy(er?) use | 14:43 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: That makes sense to a degree. | 14:43 |
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| blogan | is there any way to version the api? | 14:43 |
| enikanorov__ | i also think it's possible to evolve rather then just to the cutoff | 14:43 |
| sbalukoff | I think we can totally keep backward-compatible workflows. | 14:43 |
| enikanorov__ | to=do | 14:43 |
| rm_work | right, but if we're talking about something central like VIP, evolution may not be 100% possible? | 14:43 |
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| jorgem | enikanorov: +1, Evolving is going to constantly happen so we better get in the groove of it now | 14:43 |
| enikanorov__ | it is possible, actually | 14:43 |
| sbalukoff | But I'd love to fix the terminology, even if that means existing users of the service need to update their code to work with different terms in the API. | 14:44 |
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| enikanorov__ | ok, I'll do the glossary | 14:44 |
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| blogan | enikanorov: is there anyway to version neutron lbaas outside of neutron itself being versioned? | 14:45 |
| edhall | sbalukoff, isn't terminology more a concern for a client application, not an API? | 14:45 |
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| enikanorov__ | blogan: i'm not sure it's possible right now | 14:45 |
| sbalukoff | edhall: I think so too-- but you'll always get grumbling from users if they have to update their client application code. | 14:46 |
| enikanorov__ | blogan: everything is v2.0 afaik | 14:46 |
| edhall | I'm not in the habit of controlling things by typing restful URLs manually | 14:46 |
| vjay | I think we should allow more than one loadbalancers to use the same VIP. It gives flexibility in management by creating many loadbalancers for the same IP for the user. | 14:46 |
| vjay | jorgem: how was it in atlas? | 14:47 |
| enikanorov__ | vjay: what's the use case? | 14:47 |
| vjay | it keeps it logical. | 14:47 |
| vjay | i should be free to create 2 logical loadbalancers | 14:47 |
| jorgem | vjay: LB has many vips | 14:47 |
| jorgem | where vip = address + port | 14:47 |
| sbalukoff | vjay: I think we're getting confused as to what our terms mean, again. | 14:48 |
| enikanorov__ | VIP shared by 2 LBs - that's something i not sure i understand | 14:48 |
| enikanorov__ | (unless it's HA) | 14:48 |
| enikanorov__ | and HA is not just 2 LBs for the same VIP | 14:48 |
| vjay | i would like to create a LB with (IP1) and Pool1 | 14:48 |
| jorgem | vjay: sorry my mistake lb had port vips just had address | 14:48 |
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| vjay | and another with LB with (IP1) and Pool2 | 14:49 |
| blogan | multiple pools would solve that right? | 14:49 |
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| rm_work | atlas: VIP = Address, LB = Port, LB 1 <-> n VIP | 14:49 |
| jorgem | blogan: multiple pools should solve that | 14:49 |
| enikanorov__ | vjay: tcp ports are different? | 14:49 |
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| vjay | yes | 14:49 |
| vjay | tcp ports are differnt | 14:49 |
| enikanorov__ | then it's 1 LB and two VIPs | 14:49 |
| vjay | i understand that enikanorov. but why have the restrication. a user should be able to create 2 LBs with one VIP each as well | 14:50 |
| enikanorov__ | ok folks, I'd like to give a word to sdague who has something (bad) to say about lbaas in the gate | 14:50 |
| enikanorov__ | sdague: hi | 14:50 |
| vjay | if we wants to reuse the pool, he can keep it in one LB | 14:50 |
| sbalukoff | I think that glossary will do wonders to help eliminate confusion from this discussion. :) | 14:50 |
| blogan | sbalukoff: agreed | 14:51 |
| crc32 | we can start with the definition of a vip. | 14:51 |
| enikanorov__ | vjay: if he doesn't want to reuse the pool, it is still 1 LB | 14:51 |
| enikanorov__ | but with two different pools for each of VIPs | 14:51 |
| edhall | sbalukoff, absolutely | 14:51 |
| sdague | enikanorov__: http://logstash.openstack.org/#eyJmaWVsZHMiOltdLCJzZWFyY2giOiJtZXNzYWdlOlwiRkFJTDogdGVtcGVzdC5zY2VuYXJpby50ZXN0X2xvYWRfYmFsYW5jZXJfYmFzaWMuVGVzdExvYWRCYWxhbmNlckJhc2ljLnRlc3RfbG9hZF9iYWxhbmNlcl9iYXNpY1wiIEFORCB0YWdzOmNvbnNvbGUiLCJ0aW1lZnJhbWUiOiI2MDQ4MDAiLCJncmFwaG1vZGUiOiJjb3VudCIsIm9mZnNldCI6MCwidGltZSI6eyJ1c2VyX2ludGVydmFsIjowfSwic3RhbXAiOjEzOTUzMjY2Nzg3MTd9 | 14:52 |
| sdague | basically the lbaas is failing a bunch | 14:52 |
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| sdague | https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1295165 is now filed | 14:52 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1295165 in neutron "lbaas is unreliable in the gate" [Critical,New] | 14:52 |
| sdague | we need someone on it | 14:52 |
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| enikanorov__ | ok, thanks. we'll prioritize this one | 14:53 |
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| vjay | ok. I understand how we can acheive that using current model. but I am afraid we are bringing implementation details in to the logical model. which might not be liked by marck or other core members. | 14:54 |
| enikanorov__ | vjay: what kind of impl detail do you see we'd bring? | 14:54 |
| vjay | +1 on glossary | 14:54 |
| enikanorov__ | should I +1 on glossary too? :) | 14:54 |
| sbalukoff | enikanorov__: If it helps. ;) | 14:55 |
| blogan | enikanorov: yes or it wont be done | 14:55 |
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| vjay | what is the reason to restrict 1 VIP ( i mean ip address) to one LB? | 14:55 |
| vjay | i thought it was due to implementation | 14:55 |
| enikanorov__ | i'll try to do it without +1ing it :) | 14:55 |
| vjay | ? | 14:55 |
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| enikanorov__ | vjay: that was discussed once | 14:55 |
| enikanorov__ | basically the restriction somewhat tied to how things work | 14:56 |
| enikanorov__ | but it goes down to sharing a neutron port between backend | 14:56 |
| vjay | that is implementation detail :-) | 14:56 |
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| enikanorov__ | when you say, 'logic LBs' the only meaningful use case would be two create the LB without deploying it | 14:56 |
| sbalukoff | vjay: Is there any implementation in the world that works differently? | 14:56 |
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| edhall | vjay, so is your use case HA? | 14:57 |
| enikanorov__ | that was discussed at the summit once, it decided that we don't want that | 14:57 |
| vjay | i think we are running short of time. i will send an email. | 14:57 |
| enikanorov__ | and yes, HA is not something that should be managed by hand | 14:57 |
| enikanorov__ | VIP reuse != HA case | 14:57 |
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| sbalukoff | agreed. | 14:58 |
| vjay | yes | 14:58 |
| vjay | not HA case | 14:58 |
| edhall | gotcha, just trying to figure out vjay's objection | 14:58 |
| enikanorov__ | #action vjay to write to ML about VIP reuse | 14:58 |
| vjay | VIP will be placed in the same backend. | 14:58 |
| jorgem | Also, everyone please update the requirements doc when you get a chance. | 14:59 |
| jorgem | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/LBaaS/requirements | 14:59 |
| vjay | just that it wont be part of the same loadbalancer | 14:59 |
| vjay | in the logical model | 14:59 |
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| sbalukoff | Thanks for creating that, jorgem! | 14:59 |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: you are quite welcome! | 14:59 |
| enikanorov__ | vjay: i see. that's too flexible then | 14:59 |
| enikanorov__ | i mean like right now we have health monitors assiciated with the pool | 15:00 |
| enikanorov__ | we will have vips associated with LBs | 15:00 |
| enikanorov__ | imo that's beyond the real need... | 15:00 |
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| enikanorov__ | ok. thatnks everyone | 15:01 |
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| enikanorov__ | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| vjay | thanks! | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 15:01:31 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-03-20-14.00.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-03-20-14.00.txt | 15:01 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-03-20-14.00.log.html | 15:01 |
| sbalukoff | Thanks! | 15:01 |
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| jorgem | thanks | 15:01 |
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| sballe | bye | 15:02 |
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| jd__ | #startmeeting ceilometer | 15:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 15:04:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:04 |
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| jd__ | hey | 15:04 |
| ildikov_ | o/ | 15:04 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:04 |
| jd__ | ok it's just lag :) | 15:04 |
| jd__ | hi everyone | 15:04 |
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| terriyu | o/ | 15:05 |
| gibi | o/ | 15:05 |
| nprivalova | o/ | 15:05 |
| gordc | o/ | 15:05 |
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| Alexei_9871 | o/ | 15:06 |
| * eglynn lurks ... | 15:06 | |
| sileht | o/ | 15:06 |
| jd__ | #topic Milestone status icehouse-rc1 | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Milestone status icehouse-rc1 (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:07 | |
| jd__ | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/icehouse-rc1 | 15:07 |
| jd__ | so we have a bunch of bugs to fix we probably need to focus a lot on that | 15:07 |
| jd__ | I've started to go through the entire bug list to triage the bug and target them as needed | 15:08 |
| jd__ | help welcome :) | 15:08 |
| jd__ | anything to discuss on that otherwise? | 15:08 |
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| gordc | trying to find a link. | 15:08 |
| nprivalova | yep | 15:08 |
| nprivalova | I've started critical bug about logging | 15:09 |
| gordc | nm. i should really read #link.lol | 15:09 |
| gordc | nprivalova: what are you plans for addressing that bug? | 15:09 |
| nprivalova | gordc: am I right that ceilometer pipeline is running inside swift to publish messages? | 15:10 |
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| jd__ | nprivalova: yes | 15:10 |
| gordc | yep. it's used in middleware. | 15:10 |
| jd__ | I saw that bug and i'm not sure how to fix it | 15:10 |
| nprivalova | actually syslog and s-proxy are almost the same | 15:10 |
| nprivalova | I guess it's not ceilometer problem | 15:11 |
| gordc | is there no way to filter logs from 'external' libraries? like how we define here: https://github.com/openstack/ceilometer/blob/master/ceilometer/service.py#L117 | 15:11 |
| nprivalova | looks like swift writes in 2 log files | 15:11 |
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| jd__ | I don't know from what I saw in the bug the problem is that the log are set to debug | 15:12 |
| jd__ | I don't see how we are supposed to change that? | 15:12 |
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| gordc | jd__: yeah, our logs should be debug ... (some of them are audit level right now) | 15:13 |
| jd__ | the ones in the bug report are debug as far as I saw | 15:13 |
| nprivalova | the problem is not id 'debug' | 15:13 |
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| terriyu | nprivalova: do you have a link to the bug you're discussing? | 15:13 |
| nprivalova | ok, let's proceed in local-channel | 15:13 |
| nprivalova | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ceilometer/+bug/1294789 | 15:14 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1294789 in ceilometer "ceilometer swift module is spamming rsyslog with useless logs" [Critical,Triaged] | 15:14 |
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| terriyu | nprivalova: thanks | 15:14 |
| gordc | nprivalova: i'm ok with discussing this after other topics. | 15:14 |
| gordc | seems like it'll take a while. | 15:14 |
| nprivalova | yep | 15:15 |
| jd__ | me too | 15:15 |
| jd__ | is there any other topic? | 15:15 |
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| nprivalova | looks like no | 15:17 |
| jd__ | I guess not :) | 15:17 |
| jd__ | #topic Tempest integration | 15:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest integration (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:17 | |
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| nprivalova | does everybody knows the whole story about tempest :)? | 15:18 |
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| jd__ | what the whole story? | 15:18 |
| jd__ | or what do you call the whole story? :) | 15:18 |
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| terriyu | nprivalova: I'd like to hear stories :) | 15:19 |
| nprivalova | I've started a thread [Ceilometer][QA][Tempest][Infra] Ceilometer tempest testing in gate | 15:19 |
| jd__ | ok I saw that one I think but I didn't read everything yet | 15:19 |
| nprivalova | so we cannot run tempest tests on gating as it is | 15:19 |
| nprivalova | there are at least 2 blockers | 15:20 |
| nprivalova | 1. DBDeadlock | 15:20 |
| nprivalova | 2. One collector | 15:20 |
| nprivalova | but Sean noticed that cpu is very high even with 1 collector | 15:21 |
| gordc | nprivalova: i strung together all my patches to see if my multi collector and dbdeadlock patches work well | 15:21 |
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| jd__ | cool | 15:21 |
| nprivalova | so my plan is to continue investigation and do some profiling | 15:21 |
| jd__ | clearly we need to improve that so all efforts should be oriented on that now | 15:22 |
| jd__ | future kudos to gordc and nprivalova then :) | 15:22 |
| gordc | nprivalova: i'd imagine the cpu would be high with one collector. we're essentially passing hundred/thousands of messages to one source and letting it churn away. | 15:22 |
| Alexei_9871 | gordc: it can't be the reason for high cpu | 15:23 |
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| Alexei_9871 | hundred/thousands of messages would cause high io latency not cpu | 15:23 |
| Alexei_9871 | it seems that we are creating/processing lot's of objects somehow | 15:24 |
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| gordc | Alexei_9871: sure... that and the load will always be at 100%. | 15:24 |
| jd__ | Alexei_9871: that's a good hypothesis I think | 15:24 |
| jd__ | doing profiling would help | 15:24 |
| Alexei_9871 | gordc: yes but multiple collectors on same server won't help us | 15:24 |
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| Alexei_9871 | jd__: me and nprivalova are now working on it | 15:25 |
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| nprivalova | #action provide profiling resuls | 15:25 |
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| nprivalova | doesn't work :) | 15:25 |
| Alexei_9871 | jd__: we disscussed a little bit one colletor issue and a better solution would be to use several native threads instead of workers | 15:25 |
| Alexei_9871 | one collector* | 15:26 |
| Alexei_9871 | jd__: what do you think? | 15:26 |
| jd__ | Alexei_9871: nothing is thread safe | 15:26 |
| jd__ | I'm not against it but you won't manage to do that until 2016 ;) | 15:27 |
| Alexei_9871 | jd__: we still have GIL :) | 15:27 |
| jd__ | that too, so the perf would be less than having several workers anyway | 15:27 |
| jd__ | but I think it's out of scope here | 15:27 |
| jd__ | anything else on testing? | 15:27 |
| Alexei_9871 | jd__: problem with several workers is huge memory consumption | 15:27 |
| nprivalova | yep, We've created tests for pollsters | 15:27 |
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| llu-laptop | Alexei: how huge on collector? | 15:28 |
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| gordc | llu-laptop: same question | 15:28 |
| nprivalova | I think we will get this info after profiling | 15:29 |
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| jd__ | ok, moving on then | 15:29 |
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| jd__ | let's go back at the end or after the meeting on that if you want | 15:29 |
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| jd__ | #topic Release python-ceilometerclient? | 15:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:29 | |
| jd__ | eglynn-afk: around maybe? :) | 15:29 |
| jd__ | I think we still have patches in the queue | 15:29 |
| ildikov_ | jd__: you're right, we still have left | 15:30 |
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| jd__ | ok and we've still have time to release, so let's wait a bit :) | 15:30 |
| jd__ | #topic Open discussion | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:30 | |
| ildikov_ | jd__: there was a gate issue with the clients' pypy gate, it's temporary fixed, I hope it will help in the process | 15:30 |
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| Alexei_9871 | llu-laptop: around 50Mb * num_workers | 15:31 |
| jd__ | not that terrible | 15:31 |
| jd__ | ildikov_: ok | 15:31 |
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| jd__ | nothing else? closing in a minute then | 15:36 |
| terriyu | thanks to everyone who helped anamalagon with her OPW application | 15:36 |
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| terriyu | We'll find out April 21 if she got into the program | 15:36 |
| jd__ | cool | 15:36 |
| tongli | hi, can I ask a question regarding _ThreadPoolWithWait? | 15:37 |
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| tongli | I asked the question earlier in the ceilometer channel, but got no response. | 15:37 |
| ildikov_ | terriyu: np, she's very active, so it's easy to help her :) | 15:37 |
| tongli | anybody know the reason why we want the threadPool to wait? | 15:38 |
| jd__ | tongli: maybe nobody has the answer :) | 15:38 |
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| tongli | I noticed some rather strange behaviors. | 15:38 |
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| terriyu | ildikov_: awesome :) I'll pass on the compliment | 15:39 |
| tongli | when message arrives in collector, if we have like 64 threads in the pool (default), then the thread will | 15:39 |
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| tongli | hold for a long time, until all the 64 threads get some tasks, then all the threads start execution. | 15:39 |
| tongli | took a long time to figure this out, wonder if anyone knows anything about this. | 15:40 |
| ildikov_ | terriyu: cool, thanks :) | 15:40 |
| jd__ | wrapping up then, let's go on #openstack-ceilometer if needed :) | 15:42 |
| jd__ | #endmeeting | 15:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:42 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 15:42:52 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-03-20-15.04.html | 15:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-03-20-15.04.txt | 15:42 |
| jd__ | see you guys | 15:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-03-20-15.04.log.html | 15:42 |
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| jd__ | happy hacking | 15:43 |
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| llu-laptop | oh my, just got tens of messages in a sec, I hate the lag :( | 15:46 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: Do you want to run this one? | 16:02 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: nope, go for it | 16:04 |
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| krotscheck | #startmeeting storyboard | 16:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 16:04:47 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:04 | |
| krotscheck | Roll call, who's here? | 16:04 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 16:04 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I'm here | 16:05 |
| ttx | o/ | 16:05 |
| ttx | (for the first 15min or so) | 16:05 |
| krotscheck | Ok, let's get over the big stuff quick | 16:05 |
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| krotscheck | #topic MVP | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "MVP (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:05 | |
| krotscheck | Current status is "everything's working except for comments" | 16:06 |
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| krotscheck | jeblair wants comments before infra copts it. We've been dogfooding it ourselves to some extent. | 16:06 |
| NikitaKonovalov | The controller is no review | 16:06 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: And it looks fantastci | 16:06 |
| NikitaKonovalov | and thaks to ruhe, it's tested | 16:06 |
| krotscheck | The UI is causing me a bit more issues, because I'm still trying to get my paging patch working | 16:06 |
| krotscheck | So I haven't gotten to work on that, current ETA this afternoon. | 16:07 |
| ttx | krotscheck: I think the MVP needs task state change as well ? | 16:07 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: That doesn't seem to be explicitly listed: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/StoryboardMeetup | 16:07 |
| ttx | krotscheck: probably not | 16:08 |
| krotscheck | ttx: I stand corrected, there's a mention of setting a task as "invalid" | 16:08 |
| ttx | krotscheck: I just don't see how comments can be more useful than task changes | 16:08 |
| krotscheck | It's implicit | 16:08 |
| ttx | since the idea is to track completion of tasks overall :) | 16:08 |
| krotscheck | Status changes aren't that hard, thankfully | 16:08 |
| ttx | yeah, i figured | 16:08 |
| krotscheck | Ok, I'll add that to the agenda | 16:08 |
| jeblair | o/ | 16:08 |
| ttx | krotscheck: could be considered MVP+1 | 16:09 |
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| krotscheck | Ok, so outstanding for jeblair is comments, outstanding for ttx are task statuses. | 16:09 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: if infra thinks they can use it without task changes, i'm fine with leaving them out :) | 16:10 |
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| krotscheck | jeblair: ? | 16:10 |
| ttx | in all cases it's probably the next step | 16:10 |
| jeblair | oh i think they're pretty important :) | 16:10 |
| ttx | krotscheck: about comments... the POC tracked the history of changes as comments. Do you think we should too ? | 16:10 |
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| ttx | i.e. it would interleave "system remarks" with "human comments" | 16:11 |
| ttx | the same way Lp does | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Let's postpone that discussion until we get to comments. | 16:11 |
| jeblair | ttx: that's a good idea, but something i was thinking about recently is that we might want to record the history of editing the story description... | 16:11 |
| krotscheck | (That's on the agenda) | 16:11 |
| ttx | I think it makes it easier to follow the flow | 16:11 |
| * jeblair waits for appropriate time in agenda | 16:11 | |
| * ttx shuts up | 16:11 | |
| krotscheck | #topic Auth Research | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Auth Research (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:11 | |
| jeblair | (where's the agenda?) | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/StoryboardPerms | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/StoryBoard#Meeting | 16:12 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: were you able to do some research into ACL systems that might help us moving forward? | 16:12 |
| NikitaKonovalov | well first we still need to move tokens to database | 16:13 |
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| krotscheck | (For those of you new to this discussion, I threw some ideas into an ether pad. They are very draft-ish) | 16:14 |
| NikitaKonovalov | or we will be not able to scale API controllers | 16:14 |
| NikitaKonovalov | But to make things work faster we may use memcached | 16:14 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | keystone has this functionality implemented | 16:14 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: I don't think memcached is an option - one of our requirements is that API keys can be generated and persisted for Infra daemons. If we keep those tokens in memcache we risk losing them. | 16:15 |
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| krotscheck | (unless there's a memcache persistence layer that I'm not familiar with) | 16:16 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I mean, keep them in database an save to memcache for performance | 16:16 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | and expiration policy for memcache, so it does not get full of usless tokens | 16:16 |
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| krotscheck | I'm not certain memcache is the right answer here. | 16:17 |
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| krotscheck | Don't get me wrong - having the performance would be fantastic. | 16:17 |
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| krotscheck | And using the expiration policy as our token lifetime would be pretty simple. | 16:18 |
| NikitaKonovalov | I was mostly looking in keystone, so that's the way they do it | 16:18 |
| krotscheck | Hrm | 16:18 |
| NikitaKonovalov | and actually they support some other key-value storages | 16:18 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so in-use tokens would get cached into memcache. | 16:18 |
| NikitaKonovalov | right | 16:18 |
| krotscheck | I like that better. | 16:19 |
| krotscheck | How easy would it be to adapt keystone's code and make it more pecanish? | 16:19 |
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| krotscheck | That's probably a broader question. | 16:20 |
| ttx | krotscheck: do we need to optimize token storage right now ? | 16:20 |
| krotscheck | ttx: I was about to ask that | 16:20 |
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| krotscheck | Since we need to put it in the database anyway, let's start there. | 16:20 |
| ttx | we expect like 10 users max at this point :) | 16:20 |
| NikitaKonovalov | there is an WSGI middleware in keystone that does everything realted to tokens, but I'm not sure we can take a part from it | 16:21 |
| ttx | sounds like something that's easy to abstract after the fact | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | We should be able to layer on memcache later. | 16:21 |
| NikitaKonovalov | ttx: agree | 16:21 |
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| krotscheck | krotscheck: And, to be honest, we might want to use memcache not only for our tokens. | 16:21 |
| NikitaKonovalov | let's start with databsae only | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | Any disagreements? | 16:21 |
| krotscheck | (do we need a vote?_ | 16:21 |
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| ttx | nope go for it | 16:22 |
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| jeblair | ++later | 16:22 |
| jeblair | (but also ++memcache) | 16:22 |
| krotscheck | #agreed First step on Storyboard ACL's is to get the tokens into the db, further design discussion postponed until then. | 16:22 |
| krotscheck | #idea Layer on memcache to optimize token queries. | 16:22 |
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| krotscheck | #topic Database migration pain | 16:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Database migration pain (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:23 | |
| krotscheck | ruhe did a great job removing the sqlite pain over the weekend. | 16:23 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: You mentioned there was another potential issue? | 16:23 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: I worked around it. Foreign keys in the initial DB definition make it hard to remove them | 16:23 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Got it | 16:24 |
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| ttx | but looks like I hacked around it: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81562/ | 16:24 |
| ttx | basically we didn'(t name the constraints, and you need to have their name to remove them afterwards | 16:24 |
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| krotscheck | FYI for everyone: Unit tests are now run off of sqllite using the sqla manifest generated from our models. Our migration tests then run a table comparison to see whether the DB generated by that manifest matches the DB generated by our migrations. | 16:25 |
| ttx | the hack is to retroactively name them after what they end up being named in mySQL DB | 16:25 |
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| NikitaKonovalov | ttx: will the migrations work after you have changed the initial one? | 16:25 |
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| ttx | the leftover quetsion is... should we just name them all NOW (or remove them all NOW) to avoid future pain | 16:25 |
| ttx | NikitaKonovalov: sure | 16:25 |
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| jeblair | i'm in favor of removing them all now... | 16:25 |
| NikitaKonovalov | that's great | 16:25 |
| ttx | NikitaKonovalov: it will only break people that have postgresql deployed and do CD | 16:25 |
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| jeblair | krotscheck: oh, mordred and i had a convo in #storybeard earlier and i don't think you were online | 16:26 |
| jeblair | let me paste it | 16:26 |
| ttx | because our overwrite of the initial migration doesn't correspond to their current state | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | Heh. Storybeard. | 16:26 |
| ttx | Like it | 16:26 |
| ttx | I'm also in favor of removing them all now | 16:26 |
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| jeblair | #link http://paste.openstack.org/show/73920/ | 16:26 |
| ttx | I know cody-somerville expressed the other preference | 16:26 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: Yeah, my znc bouncer is fubar right now. | 16:27 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: storybeard is extra hipster | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | ..... | 16:27 |
| NikitaKonovalov | lgtm, because thous are not the migrations actually, they are kind of "ajusting the model" | 16:27 |
| krotscheck | I think we have an april fool's joke. | 16:27 |
| jeblair | ++ | 16:27 |
| ttx | That said, if we remove them now it will look a bit funni in the migrations | 16:27 |
| ttx | or funny | 16:27 |
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| jeblair | so the tldr is that since alembic creates the schema, we can simply omit fk definitions from alembic, but still have the sqla orm understand the relationships | 16:28 |
| ttx | nothing a migration consolidation can't fix | 16:28 |
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| ttx | jeblair: yes | 16:28 |
| cody-somerville | please don't get rid of fk constraints. | 16:28 |
| jeblair | (as a practice for eliminating fks in the db going forward) | 16:28 |
| krotscheck | cody-somerville has the floor! | 16:28 |
| * ttx is happy to defers to the MySQL overlords | 16:29 | |
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| ttx | if mordred says they are useless and potentially a barrier to scale, he knows a lot more tahn I do on that toic | 16:30 |
| ttx | +p | 16:30 |
| krotscheck | I'm in the same camp. I've relied on FK's a lot in the past, but mordred's argument makes sense. | 16:31 |
| cody-somerville | we will never be at that scale. | 16:31 |
| cody-somerville | plus, bugs! | 16:31 |
| cody-somerville | too high of a risk that we mess up and corrupt our data | 16:31 |
| cody-somerville | our data deserves the extra protection fk provides | 16:31 |
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| jeblair | i don't think it provides any extra protection | 16:31 |
| cody-somerville | it will not affect our ability to scale | 16:31 |
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| jeblair | the application needs to understand and enforce these constraints anyway, so it's wasteful to have the database do it | 16:32 |
| cody-somerville | until have like terabytes of data | 16:32 |
| ttx | cody-somerville: i'm fine either way. Just want to pick a way and stick to it, rather than do it 10 migrations down the road | 16:32 |
| jeblair | and they cause all sorts of problems with schema changes (including but not limited to what we've just seen) | 16:32 |
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| cody-somerville | jeblair: data lives a long time, code not so much. | 16:32 |
| ttx | I think we can have that discussion off-meeting | 16:33 |
| cody-somerville | and the issue we're seeing is due to alembic being a young project. It's just a missing feature or it's doing something wrong. | 16:33 |
| krotscheck | Seems like a longer argument. How about we take this to openstack-dev? | 16:33 |
| ttx | just need to make sure cody and monty are in the room at the same time rather than talk past each other | 16:33 |
| jeblair | ttx: ++ | 16:33 |
| ttx | otherwise i just agree with the last one who spoke | 16:34 |
| krotscheck | Seems like a big enough 'best practice' argument that the rest of the community would care. | 16:34 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: my personal feeling would be: FKs just created pain for me, let's get rid of them | 16:34 |
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| * jeblair agrees with the last thing ttx said | 16:35 | |
| krotscheck | ttx: Well, that's SQLA's abstraction that's causing the pain. If you were working natively that wouldn't be that much of a problem, but I see your point. | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | natively on one database that is. | 16:36 |
| cody-somerville | This is sort of a similar argument to type systems. | 16:36 |
| jeblair | they will bite us again on some migration that's impossible to do because of a fk constraint | 16:36 |
| cody-somerville | For what it's worth, the south migration engine handles this just fine. | 16:36 |
| krotscheck | Alright, let's take this offline. Who wants to start the dev-list thread? | 16:37 |
| jeblair | or even some code error that the fk system _didn't_ catch but is impossible to clean up due to it. etc. | 16:37 |
| cody-somerville | but yes, fk constraints beyond that can cause issues and it's usually because we want it to. (oh hey, you're doing something that fundamental breaks your data model integrity). | 16:37 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: my recommendation would not be to look to openstack-dev for a decision. you will get opinions, but we already have those. :) | 16:37 |
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| ttx | cody-somerville: I think jeblair's argument is that migartion engines work better with simple DB definitions, and ORMs preserve integrity from the app perspective | 16:37 |
| jeblair | ttx: wow why can't i summarize my thinking like that. | 16:37 |
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| cody-somerville | What happens when someone decided to write some raw SWL? | 16:37 |
| cody-somerville | *decides | 16:37 |
| krotscheck | jeblair: It's a distraction tactic. I actually think the current status is painful but understood, and therefore manageable, therefore we can focus on other features :) | 16:37 |
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| cody-somerville | What happens when we do major refactoring? and maybe we mess up. | 16:38 |
| ttx | jeblair: we form a synergetic double-human | 16:38 |
| krotscheck | cody-somerville: We write more tests :) | 16:38 |
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| cody-somerville | the data is just too valuable to risk | 16:38 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: so we need good real tests of schemas and migrations (on mysql and not sqlite) | 16:38 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: ++ | 16:38 |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: and if that fails and we hose our production instance, we restore from backup. :) | 16:39 |
| krotscheck | #topic Comments | 16:39 |
| cody-somerville | people suck at writing tests. writing good tests is hard. | 16:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Comments (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:39 | |
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| cody-somerville | This is like an argument on type safety | 16:39 |
| * krotscheck is forcing this conversation offline | 16:39 | |
| jeblair | cody-somerville: (which is the same thing we would do with any kind of delete lots of data error, which fks not only don't protect against but also can facilitate) | 16:39 |
| ttx | we shouldn't spend the whole meeting on that. Better to expose each arguments in a well-thought ML post and see if we can reach consensus | 16:39 |
| ttx | krotscheck: +1 | 16:40 |
| ttx | I'd go post on -infra | 16:40 |
| NikitaKonovalov | agree, let's discuss that in mailing list | 16:40 |
| krotscheck | Ok: jeblair wants comments! We all want comments! We have simple non-threaded comments on a patch right now, but I haven't been able to look at/polish the UI yet. | 16:40 |
| jeblair | yay! | 16:41 |
| krotscheck | Current start ETA is this afternoon, assuming I don't get into another argument with jeblair on paging :) | 16:41 |
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| krotscheck | jeblair and tax mentioned the idea that each task should have a log of changes. | 16:41 |
| krotscheck | *ttx | 16:41 |
| jeblair | right, ttx was suggesting incorporating that as comments | 16:42 |
| krotscheck | My perspective is that a history log is valuable, however it's a slightly different problem than comments, and should be treated differently. | 16:42 |
| NikitaKonovalov | we can handle that with comments, by just setting a type | 16:42 |
| jeblair | i was throwing out the idea that things like 'editing the description' may want to be logged too, but might be too verbose for comments, so we might want a side-channel log of things like that | 16:42 |
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| jeblair | i don't know if that means that we should put all actions in the side channel log, or some, or what... | 16:43 |
| ttx | krotscheck: so there are two types of "history commenst" | 16:43 |
| NikitaKonovalov | what about a checkbox for show/hide service commnets | 16:43 |
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| jeblair | ttx: but i do agree with the idea that peoples actions on stories should be visible, and makes sense to put them in the chronology of comments | 16:43 |
| NikitaKonovalov | the UI can filter them before rendering | 16:43 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: the first type is meaningful for the discussion. For example, an autocomment saying you added a task affecting Nova spares you from having to post a "Oh BTW this also affects Nova apparently" comment | 16:43 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Well, there's an event log for what has happened to the story, and there's a comment sections. The event log would include something like "so and so left a comment", and the UI could resolve that comment, but it would also include state changes, etc. | 16:44 |
| ttx | the second type is more an activity log | 16:44 |
| ttx | krotscheck: if you look at LP, whenever you change status you can easily add a comment about it to justify iy | 16:44 |
| ttx | it* | 16:44 |
| ttx | so for example, if you change task status to "merged" you can add a link to the review that was merged | 16:45 |
| ttx | I hate it when people change something and don't explain why | 16:45 |
| jeblair | (mildly distracting but i want to mention it anyway: launchpad's rolling up of several actions into one is really nice) | 16:45 |
| ttx | So I don't want us to discourage that | 16:45 |
| ttx | (jeblair: yes) | 16:46 |
| krotscheck | ttx: I don't want to overload comments with additional functionality that isn't really part of the design discussion. | 16:46 |
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| krotscheck | s/design/story/ | 16:46 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: well, the story discussion is all about steps to resolve bugs | 16:46 |
| ttx | so things like "this also affects nova" are pretty critical in the discussion | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | Ok, so we're conflating "features" and "design" here. | 16:47 |
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| krotscheck | What jeblair is asking for is the ability to collect several actions into one, which I think is good. | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | What ttx is asking for is the ability to see a full log of a story/tasks history | 16:47 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: no | 16:47 |
| krotscheck | I'm sure we have a bunch of other ways that people want to see the lifecycle of a task. | 16:48 |
| ttx | krotscheck: i'm saying that key status changes are part of the discussion | 16:48 |
| jeblair | let's not focus on the thing i mentioned; it's distracting and can be addressed later | 16:48 |
| jeblair | ttx: ++ | 16:48 |
| ttx | krotscheck: and that's based on my experience with openstack and LP | 16:48 |
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| ttx | not just somethign I deeply believe in | 16:48 |
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| krotscheck | ttx: What I'm saying is that what you're asking for is a feature, and can easily be represented in the UI that way, however how that actually ends up being implemented technically is irrellevant. | 16:49 |
| jeblair | here's a nice bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1266513 | 16:49 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1266513 in openstack-ci "Some Python requirements are not hosted on PyPI" [Critical,In progress] | 16:49 |
| jeblair | with lots of status changes | 16:49 |
| jeblair | along with associated comments | 16:50 |
| krotscheck | ttx: So when we talk about "comments", to me that says : The area in the UI that you're interacting with that contains comments" | 16:50 |
| ttx | krotscheck: I see your point | 16:50 |
| krotscheck | ttx: When I say comments, I mean the comments API that handles someone actually talking. | 16:50 |
| ttx | krotscheck: I'm just saying whatever we end up doing should support displaying more than just "comments" in the "timeline" | 16:50 |
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| jeblair | i think there may also be the implication that the "update task state" api may need a comment parameter as well | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | ttx: So my suggestion is that when someone leaves a comment, or changes a status, they actually create an event associated with that story, which includes some reference to the comment and/or status change. | 16:51 |
| ttx | the simplest way to do that is to have a single table with comment types, like in the POC | 16:51 |
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| ttx | and have status chnages be fed into that table | 16:51 |
| ttx | but that's implementation. | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | And then the UI actually renders a filterable list of events, which themselves resolve the related resources for display | 16:51 |
| krotscheck | Right. | 16:52 |
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| krotscheck | So right now, is anything other than a single-threaded comment list asked for? | 16:52 |
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| ttx | yes, I think using "timeline" (and "events") clarifies what we mean | 16:52 |
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| ttx | i was just not using "comments" for the thing you meant | 16:52 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Using the timeline metaphor can easily be extended to projects, features, stories, releases.... | 16:52 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: that sounds reasonable (especially the 1:many event:action-or-comment aspect) | 16:52 |
| ttx | if comments are just a part of a timeline that will contain other types of important events, ++ | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | kk | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | Further design discussion pending, I think what NikitaKonovalov gave us is sufficient for MVP, but it's good to know this is on the horizon | 16:53 |
| ttx | 7min left | 16:53 |
| krotscheck | #topic Paging | 16:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Paging (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:54 | |
| krotscheck | I'm altering my paging patch to use oslo's marker/limit rather than offset/limit, and to make the max/default page sizes configurable via storyboard.conf. | 16:54 |
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| krotscheck | Hopefully the patch will be updated today. | 16:54 |
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| krotscheck | #topic Task status | 16:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Task status (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:54 | |
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| krotscheck | ttx: Any ask for anything more than a status FK-ish link to a table of valid task statuses? | 16:55 |
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| ttx | krotscheck: nope | 16:55 |
| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: Think you can add that? | 16:55 |
| ttx | my point was just: until we add that, we can list work todo but can't track completion of anything | 16:56 |
| ttx | so it's like the next thing after MVP imho | 16:56 |
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| krotscheck | ok. | 16:56 |
| NikitaKonovalov | we can have more complicated queryis to fetch that | 16:56 |
| ttx | (personally I find it more critical than comments, but that's the result-oriented me) | 16:56 |
| jeblair | ttx: we can't mark the mvp as complete until we do, so it's self-necessitating! :) | 16:57 |
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| ttx | jeblair: nice | 16:57 |
| krotscheck | We're running out of time, and I don't want to start another design discussion. | 16:57 |
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| jeblair | i think we all agree they are important | 16:58 |
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| krotscheck | Let's move this to offline, NikitaKonovalov, I'm just going to assume you make your magic happen and the feature will appear. | 16:58 |
| ttx | krotscheck: should be easy since at this point we have only 3 states and don't plan to get smarter than that | 16:58 |
| ttx | FWIW the end goal is to have that set automatically on merge for git-backed projects | 16:58 |
| krotscheck | ttx: Yeah, a simple implementation could just be an enum. | 16:58 |
| ttx | but in all cases we need to be able to manually set it too | 16:58 |
| NikitaKonovalov | story/<id>/stats may render everything about how many thing are in which state | 16:58 |
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| krotscheck | NikitaKonovalov: That feels more like a /story?state=foo to me. | 16:59 |
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| krotscheck | But we can argue about that. | 16:59 |
| krotscheck | later | 16:59 |
| krotscheck | #topic Requested New Feature | 16:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Requested New Feature (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 16:59 | |
| ttx | in other news, I plan to spend more time on Storyboard in the coming weeks. It's a nice distraction from boring release matters | 16:59 |
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| krotscheck | Anything burning a hole in someone's brain that we need to put ahead of comments and task status? | 16:59 |
| ttx | and I want to stay up to snuff | 16:59 |
| ttx | krotscheck: nope | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | Awesome. | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | #endmeeting storyboard | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 17:00:12 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-20-16.04.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-20-16.04.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2014/storyboard.2014-03-20-16.04.log.html | 17:00 |
| jeblair | krotscheck: arg to endmeeting not necessary | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | Got it | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | Ok, I have to go catch a bus. | 17:00 |
| krotscheck | I'll be deep in config land until lunchish. | 17:00 |
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| amey | hi all, since no discussion is going on, I would like to ask if you'll have read the blue print for the project proposal I sent a few days back regarding run time integrity checks? | 17:05 |
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| amey | This is a project by a group of graduate students from Carnegie Mellon and we would like comments/suggestions from the community | 17:06 |
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| anteaya | amey: best to ask your question in #openstack-dev | 17:08 |
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| amey | anteaya : Okay. But since this is related to OpenStack security, I thought it would be a good place to discuss it | 17:11 |
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| anteaya | amey: discussions in this channel only happen during scheduled meetings | 17:13 |
| anteaya | amey: open discussion takes place in #openstack-dev | 17:13 |
| anteaya | if you think security would be breached by discussing in the open please pm ttx or fungi | 17:13 |
| anteaya | they are are the vulnerability management team and can advise you further | 17:14 |
| amey | anteaya: Got it. Thank you. | 17:14 |
| anteaya | welcome | 17:14 |
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| bdpayne | #startmeeting OpenStack Security Group | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 18:01:01 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group' | 18:01 |
| hyakuhei | Heh, I was just cheeking meetbot :) | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | happy Thursday everyone | 18:01 |
| hyakuhei | *checking | 18:01 |
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| bdpayne | #topic Roll Call | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:01 | |
| nkinder | Hi all | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | please check in | 18:01 |
| bdpayne | o/ | 18:01 |
| * hyakuhei is here. | 18:01 | |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| malini1 | present :-) | 18:02 |
| cfiorent | Hi, Cristian here | 18:02 |
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| bdpayne | alright... let's get started | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | #topic Agenda | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:03 | |
| paulmo | Paul Montgomery here | 18:03 |
| chair6 | <- jamie from HP here | 18:03 |
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| bdpayne | I can do a quick wrapup from the Lead election | 18:03 |
| hyakuhei | OSSNs, Reviews, Future Project suggestions, Infrastructure projects | 18:03 |
| bdpayne | what else is on the agenda? | 18:03 |
| coasterz | o/ | 18:03 |
| nkinder | I wanted to talk about SSL | 18:03 |
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| bdpayne | ok, lots of stuff | 18:04 |
| nkinder | ...just in general for services/endpoints | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | we'll get rolling right away... and I'll try to leave a little time at the end for other things | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | #topic Elections | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Elections (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:04 | |
| bdpayne | As you all probably saw on the mailing list, Rob Clark was elected to the Lead role for the Juno cycle | 18:04 |
| bdpayne | Congrats to Rob! | 18:04 |
| bknudson | congrats to rob | 18:05 |
| nkinder | congrats! | 18:05 |
| hyakuhei | :) Thanks guys | 18:05 |
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| bdpayne | And thanks to everyone for participating in this process... I think we learned that this is truly a healthy group with lots of people wanting to contribute | 18:05 |
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| hyakuhei | Thanks to malini1 and sriram too | 18:05 |
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| bdpayne | Since Rob and I have been working closely already, the transition should be pretty straightforward | 18:06 |
| bdpayne | But I'll be working with Rob over the next couple of months to formally hand everything over to him | 18:06 |
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| hyakuhei | It's going to be lots of fun... | 18:07 |
| bdpayne | #topic OSSNs | 18:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OSSNs (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:07 | |
| bdpayne | Where do we stand with OSSNs today? | 18:07 |
| hyakuhei | nkinder: what's going on with the git/gerrit stuff? | 18:07 |
| nkinder | There is a review request out to create the repo | 18:07 |
| hyakuhei | link? | 18:07 |
| nkinder | My understanding is that those are looked at on Fridays | 18:07 |
| nkinder | fetching it... | 18:07 |
| nkinder | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/73157/ | 18:08 |
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| hyakuhei | Thanks nkinder | 18:08 |
| nkinder | annegentle will be changing her review to a +1 after a conversation we had earlier this morning | 18:08 |
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| nkinder | after it's in place, we can get the commit group set up, then look at auto-publishing and such | 18:09 |
| hyakuhei | nkinder: yeah, looks like it's just tied up in technical stuff rather than any fundamental objections | 18:09 |
| bknudson | who's openstack-security-notes-core | 18:09 |
| hyakuhei | nkinder: This is going to be great | 18:09 |
| nkinder | bknudson: to start, I asked for hyakuhei, bdpayne, and myself | 18:09 |
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| bknudson | ok, it's a new group. | 18:10 |
| nkinder | bknudson: but we should certainly evaluate that further if others want to regularly get involved in OSSNs | 18:10 |
| nkinder | bknudson: yes | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | this should really help keep the OSSN process organized | 18:10 |
| hyakuhei | The nice thing about this system is it's easy to track participation, the group will pretty much become self selecting over time I imagine :) | 18:10 |
| hyakuhei | I'm very excited about it | 18:10 |
| nkinder | me too | 18:10 |
| bdpayne | are there any OSSNs that need an owner right now? | 18:11 |
| bdpayne | s/owner/assignee/ | 18:11 |
| hyakuhei | I think I saw at least one orphan | 18:11 |
| hyakuhei | and bdpayne I think we still have a private one that needs to be addressed? | 18:11 |
| nkinder | yes - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ossn/+bug/1287219 | 18:11 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1287219 in keystone "scope of domain admin too broad in v3 policy sample" [Medium,Fix committed] | 18:11 |
| hyakuhei | ^ Doesn't look too bad. | 18:12 |
| hyakuhei | chair6: Do you have someone that could take a look at this? | 18:12 |
| bdpayne | ah gotcha... let's sync on the private on after this meeting | 18:12 |
| hyakuhei | yup | 18:12 |
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| chair6 | hyakuhei - sure, i should be able to take that | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | thanks chair6 | 18:13 |
| bdpayne | ok, any other OSSN discussion? | 18:14 |
| hyakuhei | #action chair6 to find someone to take on 1287219 | 18:14 |
| bknudson | looking forward to the repo | 18:14 |
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| bknudson | I'll put it on my watch list | 18:14 |
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| bdpayne | nkinder can you send out an email to the list with details about the new setup once that goes through? | 18:14 |
| nkinder | bdpayne: yep, will do | 18:14 |
| bdpayne | thanks | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | #topic Future Projects | 18:15 |
| hyakuhei | Yes - nkinder are there any outstanding tasks or things you need support with for the OSSN migration etc? | 18:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Future Projects (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:15 | |
| nkinder | hyakuhei: no, they're already migrated to the repo that will be used to initialize the new repo | 18:15 |
| hyakuhei | Ah yes that's right :) | 18:15 |
| bdpayne | hyakuhei wanted to talk about future projects... | 18:16 |
| hyakuhei | Absolutely - so this is really an open point for ideas | 18:16 |
| hyakuhei | I'd like to see more content around trusted compute pools in the guide, which I'm happy to work with malini1 on | 18:16 |
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| bdpayne | my #1 request... I'd like to see us get tightly integrated with the core projects | 18:17 |
| hyakuhei | I'm also interested in what static analysis/ keyword checkers etc we can introduce into the infrastructure chain | 18:17 |
| hyakuhei | bdpayne: yeah me too | 18:17 |
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| bknudson | what does this group look for for projects? updates/chapters to the security guide? | 18:17 |
| bknudson | how about doing audits? | 18:17 |
| malini1 | bdpayne +1 on closer involvement with other projects | 18:17 |
| bknudson | and the threat modeling | 18:17 |
| hyakuhei | Actually that's a good point. Who here, in the OSSG, has good PTL contacts in an OpenStack project? | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | and we should figure out how to re-kickstart the book editing work | 18:18 |
| bdpayne | I work with the Glance PTL | 18:18 |
| hyakuhei | bknudson: The threat modelling that's being discussed on the mailing list is very interesting | 18:18 |
| malini1 | bknudson: at the barbican meeting I raised the subject of a chapter on key manager, it is nearly out of incubation and I have a helper | 18:18 |
| nkinder | I have PTL contacts too | 18:18 |
| hyakuhei | I have infra, Ironic and Triple-O guys I can talk to | 18:18 |
| bknudson | have you guys heard of FIPS 140-2? | 18:18 |
| bknudson | and there's a NIST standard, too... | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | malini1: good idea | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | bknudson: what about fips? | 18:19 |
| nkinder | bknudson: yes, familiar with fips | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | fips 140-2 use a really old version of openssl-kernel. fips 140-3 use superglue on your server chassis. | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | love fips :) | 18:19 |
| bknudson | document how to run openstack in fips mode | 18:19 |
| bknudson | if that's not documented already | 18:19 |
| hyakuhei | It's certainly worth doing. There are a lot of decisions you can make that easily break fips | 18:20 |
| bknudson | and validating it works via openstack CI would be great, too. | 18:20 |
| bdpayne | sadly, that would probably be useful | 18:20 |
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| hyakuhei | With regards to chapters etc, in the guide, I think they're a good way to bring new people in. It's also a nice way to itroduce people to the review process etc | 18:20 |
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| bdpayne | so this is a great list | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | I think my other caution would be to remember the size of our community | 18:21 |
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| bknudson | potentially, could have a "mode" for oslo.config that would only allow the "secure" setting. | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | I think that we should find a small number of things that will have a high impact | 18:21 |
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| bdpayne | And then we should do those things *very* well | 18:21 |
| bdpayne | That will allow our community to grow and get greater acceptance throughout OpenStack | 18:22 |
| nkinder | bdpayne: +1 | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | and then we can gradually expand | 18:22 |
| hyakuhei | bdpayne: agreed, but for now lets get everything down and then go through some prioritisation and get people to find what they want to contribute to | 18:22 |
| malini1 | bdpayne: +1 | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | so I'd just caution against diluting too fast | 18:22 |
| hyakuhei | Yup | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | yeah, makes sense | 18:22 |
| hyakuhei | It'd be nice to pull out a few easy-wins too | 18:22 |
| bdpayne | #topic Infra Improvements | 18:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Infra Improvements (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)" | 18:23 | |
| bdpayne | What, if anything, is needed here? | 18:23 |
| hyakuhei | I'm interested in opportunities to hook checks into jenkins etc that check for obvious bad things | 18:23 |
| bdpayne | ahh | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | like some of the security testing stuff that we've discussed in the past? | 18:24 |
| hyakuhei | Yeah | 18:24 |
| nkinder | like static checks, or something more? | 18:24 |
| bdpayne | I agree that would be nice | 18:24 |
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| bdpayne | but first step is to put together the tests | 18:24 |
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| hyakuhei | Yeah so SA _like_ Fortify or Coverity but also checks for stupid things | 18:24 |
| hyakuhei | like pickle.loads | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | python makes this a bit tricky, but some things can be done | 18:25 |
| hyakuhei | Stuff like that which can sneak back in | 18:25 |
| malini1 | stupid things like "password" in a log statement | 18:25 |
| hyakuhei | Exactly | 18:25 |
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| bdpayne | openstack is still at a point where you can nearly create a CVE generator using grep ;-) | 18:25 |
| bdpayne | which means we can add value here | 18:25 |
| hyakuhei | I think they are great high-value things to add, write once, catch many :) | 18:25 |
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| paulmo | I've been proposing identification and isolation of log/notification data up front in Solum to avoid searches for 'password'-like stuff that won't cover every scenario btw. | 18:25 |
| hyakuhei | Makes sense | 18:26 |
| bdpayne | so we've had a few false starts on security testing... I think we'd just need an owner for this idea that can really push it forward | 18:26 |
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| malini1 | paulmo +1 | 18:26 |
| hyakuhei | Though in the run-testing we can introduce steps like 'staining' where we put known values in at the front end and see where and if they end up in bad places at the back end | 18:26 |
| bknudson | are there any good python code scanners out there? | 18:26 |
| bknudson | seems like an impossible task | 18:26 |
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| hyakuhei | SA for Python is spotty at best | 18:27 |
| paulmo | https://github.com/stackforge/solum/blob/master/solum/common/trace_data.py is the link btw for those interested | 18:27 |
| hyakuhei | Coverity and HP Fortify both have _some_ support | 18:27 |
| bdpayne | yeah, doing this in python is hard | 18:27 |
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| bdpayne | but, even some basic checks could be useful | 18:27 |
| hyakuhei | bdpayne: it is for static, but I think, with the way the OpenStack testing works, there are interesting DA opportunities too, though they may be a ways off | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | yes, and yes | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | ok... so I think this would be a great thing for someone to step up to do | 18:28 |
| hyakuhei | One last thing - those security guidelines we were working on need fleshing out somewhat still I think | 18:28 |
| bdpayne | yeah | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | if done properly, those could be used as a conversation starter between the projects and OSSG | 18:29 |
| nkinder | yes, they do. They could also be used as a basis for identifying the previously mentioned test areas | 18:29 |
| hyakuhei | chair6: Do you think you could find someone to add content to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Guidelines ? | 18:29 |
| bdpayne | "What do you, as a PTL, think about these guidelines... are the helpful / practical for your project? Is there something OSSG could do to help support making these kinds of things happen? Etc..." | 18:30 |
| paulmo | I'll keep contributing as new items pop up in Solum that seem generic across openstack | 18:30 |
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| hyakuhei | ^ Great stuff. | 18:30 |
| chair6 | yeah, that looks like something useful to build out .. i'll get someone on it | 18:30 |
| bdpayne | time check: we are over time right now... and still have one topic | 18:30 |
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| bdpayne | nkinder... you want to take the SSL discussion to the ML? | 18:31 |
| nkinder | bdpayne: sure. | 18:31 |
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| bdpayne | ok, thanks | 18:31 |
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| hyakuhei | Thank you everyone! | 18:31 |
| bdpayne | alright everyone... thanks for a nice meeting... let's go do some great work :-) | 18:31 |
| bdpayne | #endmeeting | 18:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:31 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 18:31:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-03-20-18.01.html | 18:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-03-20-18.01.txt | 18:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_security_group/2014/openstack_security_group.2014-03-20-18.01.log.html | 18:31 |
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| markwash | #startmeeting glance | 20:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 20:05:33 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is markwash. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance)" | 20:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'glance' | 20:05 |
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| markwash | Hi folks, sorry for the late start. Can we get a roll call on glance meeting attendees? | 20:05 |
| ameade | >.> | 20:06 |
| gokrokve | Hi! | 20:06 |
| gokrokve | Georgy Okrokvertskhov | 20:07 |
| markwash | markwash: here ;-) | 20:07 |
| markwash | is it just the three of us? | 20:07 |
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| ameade | nikhil__: you were excited to be in the meeting today, where are you! | 20:07 |
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| markwash | All right, gokrokve ameade anything you guys want to talk about today? we can make a quick agenda | 20:08 |
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| gokrokve | We updated etherpad with artifacts discussions: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/glance-artifacts-discussion | 20:09 |
| nikhil__ | ameade: oh, was in meeting-alt. darn it! | 20:09 |
| ameade | markwash: so i think i am going to start pushing for the 'brick' library to get out of cinder and then help zhiyan with the cinder store code at some point | 20:09 |
| markwash | oh shoot I am in the wrong room! | 20:09 |
| nikhil__ | :) | 20:10 |
| markwash | Hey, let's switch over to the other, sorry about that | 20:10 |
| markwash | #endmeeting | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:10 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 20:10:13 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:10 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-03-20-20.05.html | 20:10 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-03-20-20.05.txt | 20:10 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/glance/2014/glance.2014-03-20-20.05.log.html | 20:10 |
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| mtreinish | #startmeeting qa | 22:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Mar 20 22:00:17 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 22:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 22:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'qa' | 22:00 |
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| mtreinish | hi who's here today? | 22:00 |
| masayukig | hi | 22:00 |
| ken1ohmichi | hi | 22:00 |
| mtreinish | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/QATeamMeeting | 22:00 |
| mtreinish | ^^^ Today's agenda | 22:00 |
| mlavalle | hi | 22:00 |
| cyeoh | hi | 22:00 |
| maurosr | hi \o | 22:01 |
| mtreinish | sdague, dkranz: you guys around? | 22:01 |
| mtreinish | well let's get started | 22:02 |
| dkranz | Yes, just here | 22:02 |
| mtreinish | #topic Blueprints | 22:02 |
| sdague | o/ | 22:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:02 | |
| mtreinish | so sdague I'm assuming you left the note on the agenda about the specs repo | 22:02 |
| sdague | yes | 22:02 |
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| sdague | I wanted to make sure that we started talking about the qa-specs repository | 22:03 |
| sdague | #link https://github.com/openstack/qa-specs | 22:03 |
| sdague | so based on the conversation last week we're going to try to do something very similar to what nova is doing with a -specs repository for reviewing blueprints | 22:03 |
| sdague | I think the right thing to do is unapprove all non-high items, and have specs proposed back in through this new process | 22:04 |
| sdague | that will hopefully help us actually clarify blueprints in advance | 22:04 |
| mtreinish | yeah I agree that's probably the right approach for the exisiting bps | 22:04 |
| sdague | a couple of questions for folks | 22:04 |
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| sdague | 1) do you think we need a more formal template? or is a free form better to get started? | 22:05 |
| sdague | I am leaning towards free form, as I'd like to build template by experimentation | 22:05 |
| dkranz | sdague: I'd say free form | 22:05 |
| sdague | however, if people feel strong the other way we can do that | 22:05 |
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| cyeoh | maybe a very rough template for some guidance? But I'm happy either way | 22:05 |
| dkranz | Until we get a feel for what people will put there | 22:05 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: yeah I think free form is better too, but maybe some guidelines on what content is expected in the proposal | 22:06 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: for example our debate on where to put target release | 22:06 |
| sdague | cyeoh: you have some ideas about what rough guidance? | 22:06 |
| cyeoh | can probably steal the basic stuff from the nova template - things like pointing back to the blueprint etc | 22:06 |
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| cyeoh | ids of who is going to work on it etc | 22:06 |
| sdague | cyeoh: ok, sure, that's probably fair | 22:07 |
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| sdague | cyeoh: you want to write a few things here - https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/qa-spec-template | 22:07 |
| cyeoh | I can do that this afternoon if you'd like (just can't do it this morning) | 22:07 |
| sdague | cyeoh: sure | 22:07 |
| sdague | so if you are going to do it your afternoon, yuo want to just propose it as a review to the repo? | 22:08 |
| sdague | and we'll do it that way | 22:08 |
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| cyeoh | sure, will do | 22:08 |
| sdague | I think basic problem statement, and approach, target time frame, people working on it, and where it would go in the tempest tree are the things I can think of at the moment | 22:08 |
| sdague | my brain is a bit gate fried though :) | 22:09 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah that seems like a reasonable list | 22:09 |
| sdague | so the assistance on proposing template is appreciated | 22:09 |
| cyeoh | so are we planning on having people resubmit every cycle? | 22:09 |
| sdague | cyeoh: I don't think so | 22:09 |
| cyeoh | ok | 22:09 |
| sdague | I think if an idea goes obsolete then we mark it somehow in the template | 22:09 |
| sdague | sorry, in the spec | 22:10 |
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| sdague | but I think we can figure out that workflow later | 22:10 |
| ken1ohmichi | should we stop unapproved bp tasks until approval with this process? | 22:10 |
| cyeoh | sdague: sounds good to me | 22:10 |
| sdague | ken1ohmichi: honestly, I don't want you to stop doing anything :) | 22:10 |
| sdague | you're too productive | 22:10 |
| cyeoh | +1 | 22:11 |
| masayukig | +1 | 22:11 |
| ken1ohmichi | thanks:-) | 22:11 |
| sdague | mostly I want us to go back through this process to make sure things are clear | 22:11 |
| sdague | for juno | 22:11 |
| sdague | because we definitely got into a lot of confusion on things like the advanced network debugging | 22:11 |
| sdague | that I feel like needs an overview document to make sure we're on top of it | 22:12 |
| sdague | so consider this an "in parallel" for anything you are actively working on | 22:12 |
| sdague | and a pre req for new things | 22:12 |
| dkranz | sdague: So should be be more accepting of proposals that are project-specific? | 22:13 |
| dkranz | sdague: Both neutron and heat wanted to have more blueprints in tempest but we said no | 22:13 |
| sdague | yes, I feel like doing this I'd be ok with that | 22:13 |
| dkranz | sdague: Yeah, we should at least be open to it | 22:13 |
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| sdague | because we don't end up with them populating 50 lp artifacts and no one noticing :) | 22:14 |
| sdague | and important part of this process is "Bring forward the proposed item to the openstack-qa meeting for summary" | 22:14 |
| sdague | and I don't want us +Aing anything that misses that step | 22:15 |
| dkranz | sdague: Right. And there could be project subdirs in the specs area | 22:15 |
| sdague | dkranz: maybe, lets try flat first | 22:15 |
| dkranz | sdague: k | 22:15 |
| sdague | we can always easily reorg if it's gone crazy | 22:15 |
| mtreinish | dkranz: I'm still not convinced a bp or this repo are the best way to track doing test tracking either | 22:15 |
| cyeoh | so there may be some people who find it really hard to get to the irc meeting | 22:16 |
| mtreinish | but we can iterate and explore | 22:16 |
| cyeoh | are we ok with people just putting it on the agenda if that's the case? | 22:16 |
| cyeoh | (and not turning up) | 22:16 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: Yes, since real project management tools are out-of-bounds :) | 22:16 |
| sdague | cyeoh: even with the rotating times? | 22:16 |
| mtreinish | yeah that's fine. I guess we don't have coverage for certain tz even with the rotating sched | 22:16 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah like china | 22:16 |
| sdague | right that's 6am now? | 22:17 |
| mtreinish | yep | 22:17 |
| sdague | well, one of the issues I really want to address is people off working on bp that aren't communicating via irc or email about them | 22:17 |
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| sdague | because we definitely have seen people not be successful if they only communicate in gerrit | 22:18 |
| sdague | and I'd like to have people be more successful | 22:18 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah I agree but if the meeting can't be attended by everyone we need some way to enforce communicate besides just the meeting | 22:18 |
| sdague | sure, so alt to meeting is ML discussion | 22:18 |
| dkranz | mtreinish: We could insist on initial ml post | 22:19 |
| sdague | well, lets see how the first round goes | 22:19 |
| mtreinish | ok that works | 22:19 |
| mtreinish | sdague: do you think we should update the readme | 22:19 |
| sdague | lets start with all of us that have bp that are < high proposing up stuff | 22:19 |
| mtreinish | because it doesn't mention the ml | 22:19 |
| sdague | in the next week | 22:19 |
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| sdague | then out of that set we can start to figure out what's workign and what's not | 22:19 |
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| sdague | so we'll do a review next week of everything that's been proposed and comment on what seems to be working and not with the repo | 22:20 |
| sdague | sound good to folks? | 22:20 |
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| dkranz | +1 | 22:20 |
| mtreinish | works for me | 22:20 |
| ken1ohmichi | +1 | 22:20 |
| mlavalle | +1 | 22:21 |
| maurosr | +1 | 22:21 |
| masayukig | +1 | 22:21 |
| sdague | after we have that, we can communicate more the the broader community to get more folks doing it as well | 22:21 |
| sdague | hopefully that will provide plenty of good examples for them to copy from | 22:21 |
| cyeoh | +1 | 22:21 |
| sdague | ok, I think that topic is done unless there are last questions | 22:21 |
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| * afazekas is reading more frequently IRC than ML | 22:22 | |
| mtreinish | ok then let's move on to the bp review | 22:22 |
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| mtreinish | I think for time we should skip the standard high prio bp walkthrough | 22:23 |
| sdague | sure | 22:23 |
| mtreinish | and just ask if anyone has any updates for open bps | 22:23 |
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| mtreinish | or needs feedback or attention on any bps | 22:23 |
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| mtreinish | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/unit-tests | 22:24 |
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| mtreinish | I think I'll just mention that we've made a bunch of progress with unit tests this past week | 22:24 |
| mtreinish | we've had some new contributions from masayukig and others | 22:24 |
| sdague | question on the unit tests, in fixing something for the logging | 22:24 |
| sdague | we seem to be using a lot of fake objects | 22:24 |
| sdague | instead of just mock calls directly | 22:25 |
| sdague | is there a reason for that? | 22:25 |
| mtreinish | sdague: there are a few fake objects for some common things that will be used everywhere | 22:25 |
| mtreinish | but for the most part it should be more mocks and fixtures | 22:25 |
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| mtreinish | for example look at the isolated_creds tests | 22:26 |
| mtreinish | anyway I think we'll be at >200 unit tests by the end of icehouse | 22:26 |
| sdague | yeh, I would lean on trying to get rid of the fake objects if possible, mostly because it adds a level of coupling when you need to change them | 22:26 |
| sdague | mtreinish: nice | 22:26 |
| mtreinish | considering we had <10 at the start | 22:26 |
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| mtreinish | sdague: yeah some of it was me just being lazy at first | 22:26 |
| mtreinish | and it being reused | 22:26 |
| mtreinish | we can start to clean that up over time (like the config refactor to use the fixture) | 22:27 |
| sdague | yeh, cool | 22:27 |
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| sdague | honestly, I've only really started wrapping my head around mock recently, but it's become the openstack standard, so we should use it more to make it easier for people to jump between projects | 22:28 |
| sdague | all goodness | 22:28 |
| mtreinish | yeah I agree | 22:28 |
| mtreinish | ok I didn't have anything else to mention about unit tests | 22:28 |
| mtreinish | does anyone else have a bp to bring up | 22:28 |
| mtreinish | otherwise we can move on | 22:28 |
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| mtreinish | #topic Neutron testing | 22:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Neutron testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:29 | |
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| mtreinish | mlavalle: are you around? | 22:29 |
| mlavalle | hi | 22:29 |
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| mtreinish | mlavalle: any update on neutron testing? | 22:30 |
| mlavalle | We have continued merging api tests. Since our last meeting, another 2 patch sets have merged | 22:30 |
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| mlavalle | The grand total over the past 4 weeks is 14 | 22:30 |
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| mlavalle | There are 3 abandondes patch sets. I contacted their authors by mail. One of them responded (he owns 2) and has given me permission to assign the patch sets to someone else | 22:31 |
| mlavalle | I also have 3 patch sets that only rehire one additional +2 to merge. Can you guys help? | 22:32 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: sure do you have links? | 22:32 |
| mlavalle | yes, give me aminute | 22:32 |
| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71251 | 22:33 |
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| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/68597 | 22:33 |
| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/63999 | 22:33 |
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| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71251 | 22:33 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/68597 | 22:33 |
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| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/63999 | 22:33 |
| mlavalle | In summary, continuing making good progress | 22:33 |
| mtreinish | mlavalle: ok I'll take a look tomorrow morning | 22:33 |
| mtreinish | but someone will probably beat me to it | 22:33 |
| mlavalle | thanks :-) | 22:33 |
| mlavalle | That's all I have | 22:34 |
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| mtreinish | ok cool thanks | 22:34 |
| mtreinish | I guess we can move on if no one has any questions about neutron testing | 22:34 |
| mtreinish | #topic Heat testing | 22:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat testing (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:35 | |
| mtreinish | sdague: I added this to the template | 22:35 |
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| mtreinish | but who should I ping about it | 22:35 |
| sdague | stevebaker was the primary one code was coming from | 22:35 |
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| stevebaker | \o | 22:36 |
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| sdague | and there he is! | 22:36 |
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| sdague | lefty and all | 22:36 |
| mtreinish | stevebaker: hi, do you have any updates on heat testing with tempest | 22:36 |
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| stevebaker | I've refreshed the autoscaling test, its working locally https://review.openstack.org/#/c/44967/ | 22:37 |
| sdague | stevebaker: cool | 22:37 |
| stevebaker | but it is waiting on firewall changes to land before it can run https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81375/ | 22:37 |
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| stevebaker | efforts to shame other heat developers to write tests may yet yield some results ;) | 22:38 |
| sdague | stevebaker: I was trying to pull apart what would be needed for an "ha" test using heat | 22:38 |
| sdague | where should I dig in to learn enough to do that? | 22:38 |
| stevebaker | I hope to start writing some software-config tests once a few fixes land | 22:38 |
| sdague | basically "restart vm if it goes away", which I gather we can do from heat | 22:39 |
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| stevebaker | sdague: the autoscaling scenario test can continue to evolve so that it scales arbitrary stacks, and is fronted by a neutron load balancer | 22:39 |
| stevebaker | sdague: most likely as new tests | 22:40 |
| stevebaker | i mean new scenarios | 22:40 |
| sdague | stevebaker: sounds good | 22:40 |
| sdague | maybe I'll ping you in -dev tomorrow to ask some more questions about how to help here | 22:40 |
| stevebaker | I'll be focusing on software config though | 22:40 |
| stevebaker | sdague: ok, thanks | 22:41 |
| mtreinish | stevebaker: ok cool, is there anything else? | 22:41 |
| stevebaker | we need some stack update scenarios, but it remains to be seen who will write those | 22:42 |
| mtreinish | stevebaker: maybe a call for help on the ML? | 22:42 |
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| stevebaker | mtreinish: maybe. Existing developers know the tests are needed, its just a matter of resourcing it | 22:43 |
| sdague | cool | 22:43 |
| sdague | look forward to more here. It's definitely good to have the heat job voting on everyone now | 22:44 |
| stevebaker | yes, it seems solid | 22:44 |
| sdague | yep | 22:44 |
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| sdague | ok, next up? | 22:45 |
| mtreinish | ok if there's nothing else to discuss let's move onto the next topic | 22:45 |
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| mtreinish | #topic Bugs | 22:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:45 | |
| mtreinish | so we had our bug day yesterday | 22:45 |
| mtreinish | maurosr: do you have any results from it | 22:45 |
| mtreinish | ? | 22:45 |
| maurosr | yup | 22:46 |
| maurosr | so just the numbers to be clear | 22:46 |
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| maurosr | bugs that needed triage from 62 to 18 http://bit.ly/1cXhPcF | 22:46 |
| sdague | yay! | 22:46 |
| maurosr | ok 19 now (just have a new one) | 22:46 |
| maurosr | Open bugs from 166 => 146 | 22:46 |
| maurosr | To prioritize we kept on 29 (no evolution) | 22:46 |
| maurosr | In progress 51 to 57 http://bit.ly/1hzsjfH (which is kind of result of taking triage bug into action) | 22:46 |
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| maurosr | I tended to move some of the bugs to Incomplete instead on invalid giving a chance to the reporter make it clearer... that is why we reduced only in 20 the open bugs | 22:48 |
| sdague | sure, that sounds fair | 22:48 |
| sdague | thanks for driving on this one | 22:48 |
| maurosr | yw | 22:48 |
| mtreinish | +1 | 22:48 |
| dkranz | maurosr: Yes, thanks | 22:48 |
| maurosr | btw | 22:49 |
| maurosr | in one of our meeting we were discussing thwe kind of stuff that we would accept as bugs | 22:49 |
| maurosr | not only traces | 22:49 |
| sdague | yeh, if it's just a trace I was pretty aggressively marking as invalid | 22:50 |
| sdague | as it's almost never a tempest bug | 22:50 |
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| maurosr | so it happens people are using tempest bugs to do rechecks, so there are lots of bugs that should at least affect other projects too that were there | 22:50 |
| dkranz | sdague: But don't we want to get these things into elastic recheck? | 22:50 |
| maurosr | there was even a cinder unit test bug | 22:50 |
| sdague | dkranz: it needs to be more than a stack trace for ER | 22:51 |
| mtreinish | maurosr: heh, yeah I saw that one that cracked me up | 22:51 |
| sdague | and it really shuold be assigned to the project where the problem is | 22:51 |
| sdague | and delete tempest from the bug if it's not actually a tempest bug | 22:51 |
| dkranz | sdague: I'm fine with that rather than just marking it invalid | 22:51 |
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| sdague | because if the ER bugs aren't actionable | 22:51 |
| sdague | then they aren't useful | 22:51 |
| dkranz | sdague: Let the projects mark them as invalid :) | 22:52 |
| maurosr | invalid != remove tempest of the affected list? | 22:52 |
| sdague | maurosr: so honestly either is fine | 22:52 |
| mtreinish | maurosr: if there is more than one project listed on the bug you can remove one from the list | 22:52 |
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| maurosr | right, understood what you meant | 22:52 |
| sdague | yeh, I tend to remove the wrong projects | 22:53 |
| sdague | because I find that otherwise people get confused about the bug, especially if they reopen it later | 22:53 |
| sdague | also, feel free to rewrite the summary and title to be more descriptive | 22:53 |
| sdague | if the base bug is bad | 22:53 |
| sdague | that helps create clarify over time | 22:53 |
| sdague | this is really policy for anyone, not just maurosr :) | 22:54 |
| mtreinish | heh | 22:54 |
| mtreinish | maurosr: ok is there anything else on bugs? | 22:54 |
| sdague | but especially bugs that we want to put into ER, I like to have good summary line | 22:54 |
| maurosr | nop, I will send a summary to the list later, but I guess related to the bug day it's pretty much it | 22:55 |
| mtreinish | ok | 22:55 |
| mtreinish | let's move on then | 22:55 |
| sdague | 5 minutes | 22:55 |
| mtreinish | #topic Critical Reviews | 22:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)" | 22:55 | |
| mtreinish | does anyone have any reviews they'd like to get eyes on? | 22:55 |
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| sdague | if nothing else - https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tempest+branch:master+topic:rest_client_logging,n,z | 22:56 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/tempest+branch:master+topic:rest_client_logging,n,z | 22:56 |
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| sdague | I'm trying to tighten up the tempest log so it's useful | 22:56 |
| sdague | which means dumping a lot of the noise from it | 22:56 |
| afazekas | For the leak related change I need to xml clients to behave more closely to the json clients https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81847/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78345/ | 22:56 |
| sdague | not complete, but that definitely cleans it up a bunch | 22:57 |
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| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81847/ | 22:57 |
| mtreinish | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78345/ | 22:57 |
| mtreinish | sdague: yeah it's definitely a step in the right direction | 22:57 |
| sdague | I even killed the cli output on success in the last patch | 22:57 |
| mtreinish | although with os-log-analyzer there is too much blue right clumped together with the patch | 22:57 |
| sdague | heh | 22:58 |
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| sdague | well we can debate colors at the next summit | 22:58 |
| sdague | I could unbold info as well | 22:58 |
| mtreinish | I think that would probably be enough' | 22:58 |
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| sdague | yeh, I can propose that tomorrow | 22:58 |
| afazekas | Looks like the instance validation with n-net with HARD reboot is flaky https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81834/ :( , at my home desktop the test seams stable. | 22:59 |
| afazekas | I am looking for advises how to move forward | 22:59 |
| mtreinish | ken1ohmichi: ^^^ that seems like it's in your court | 22:59 |
| mtreinish | anyway we're out of time | 23:00 |
| mtreinish | thanks everyone | 23:00 |
| mtreinish | I'll add the agenda item we couldn't get to onto next week's | 23:00 |
| malini_afk | mtreinish: Can you move my agenda item to next week? | 23:00 |
| mtreinish | #endmeeting | 23:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 23:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Mar 20 23:00:25 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-03-20-22.00.html | 23:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-03-20-22.00.txt | 23:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/qa/2014/qa.2014-03-20-22.00.log.html | 23:00 |
| ken1ohmichi | yes, I am seeing it, and will give a comment | 23:00 |
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| ken1ohmichi | thanks | 23:01 |
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