Thursday, 2014-03-20

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Daisy_Good morning, epico00:00
epicogood morning00:00
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Daisy_only us?00:02
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Daisy_Then let's start.00:02
Daisy_#startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting00:03
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 20 00:03:05 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy_. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.00:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'00:03
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Daisy_epico: how is the message ID progress?00:03
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epicoDaisy_: I commented it.00:03
Daisy_since only us, let's talk about the blueprint message ID.00:03
Daisy_can you give me a link?00:04
Daisy_are you able to go the summit this time?00:04
epiconot, I think.00:04
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Daisy_What's your point in the blueprint?00:06
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Daisy_I think, some people don't agree with this one: filename#methodname#lineno, right?00:07
epicoI think the message id generation is hard to meet all requirements, so maybe just return the English version is okay.00:07
epicoyes, some one dis-agree with it.00:07
Daisy_epico: how do you think of error code instead of message id?00:07
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epicoDaisy_, will we need to manually maintain an error code list?00:09
Daisy_I haven't thought much details. Error code and its docs could be generated automatically.00:10
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Daisy_if we use some special tag, and extract tag and comments into a document, I think, it will help.00:11
epicoI saw some commercial software did this, but they have a long list of error code, and developer need to check the doc every time.00:11
Daisy_ok. You don't like it?00:11
epicojust some random thought, bicbw.00:11
Daisy_it looks like UTC 0000 maybe too early for some people to get in.00:12
Daisy_I'm going to start the discussion about meeting and time in our ML.00:12
epicothe problem is when developers return the error code, need to check the list to return the code.00:12
epicoDaisy_, great00:12
Daisy_yes, you are right.00:13
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Daisy_The exception name can help, other than a exception number.00:13
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Daisy_So maybe an error code in a text format may help other than numbers.00:13
epicostill a list to check in order to find the right one...00:14
epicoor just English one. ;)00:14
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Daisy_epico, I have to close this meeting if nobody else join.00:14
epicono problem00:15
Daisy_Thank you for joining. We can continue the discussion about IDs off line.00:15
Daisy_Thank you.00:15
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"00:15
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 20 00:15:43 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)00:15
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enikanorov__neutron lbaas meeting in 3 minutes13:57
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enikanorov__#startmeeting neutron lbaas14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 20 14:00:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is enikanorov__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas'14:00
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enikanorov__hope most of you saw the requirements page14:01
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enikanorov__let's start with discussing the list14:01
enikanorov__does anyone have any questions on that?14:02
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enikanorov__jorgem: hi14:02
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enikanorov__jorgem: we're going to start with the feature list you've made14:02
obondarevshould the list include multiple vips per pool in any way?14:03
jorgemawesome. did everyone have a chance to add on to it?14:03
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obondarevi guess it should14:03
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enikanorov__obondarev: yes. that feature is so basic that i missed its absense14:03
enikanorov__hi vjay14:03
jorgemobondarev: if we can add it so it isn't specific to implementation I don't see why not14:04
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obondarevenikanorov__: yeah, just thought about it too14:04
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jorgemIt would be nice to capture all requirements in the doc…basic. complex, etc.14:05
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enikanorov__i think the wiki page is actually a good start14:05
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enikanorov__right now we are yet to implement a very basic features that every lb vendor supports14:05
jorgemOne thing we need is for everyone to add use cases. I was going to start working on that this coming week from my team's perspective14:06
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enikanorov__those i marked with High priority14:06
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enikanorov__jorgem: good. i think for some of the features the use cases are obvious14:06
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jorgemenikanorov: I can back up priorities with data from our current Cloud LB offering14:07
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sbalukoffHi guys.14:07
enikanorov__hi sbalukoff14:07
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enikanorov__any other questions on requirements?14:07
jorgemenikanorov: What do you think? For example, 90%ish of our load balancers are HTTP/HTTPS which means working on requirements for those would make sense. However, it would be nice to to get all operators' data like that14:08
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sballeI'll add some use cases around our requirements for more managed services features in LBaaS14:08
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enikanorov__jorgem: now 'requirements' means requirements for the features itself?14:09
enikanorov__intially we were discussing the object model/API and those features are requirements for the obj model14:09
jorgemenikanorov: not really, I was thinking backing up priorities with data14:09
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jorgemenikanorov: The object model discussion should be had, but going forward is what I mean14:10
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enikanorov__well, I have put priorities based on development considerations. with existing object model we can't really move forward14:10
enikanorov__we may however add feature or two, but to add another feature - we'd need to rewrite lots of code14:10
enikanorov__it's better to do that in consistent manner where we modify the object model first and then build upon it14:11
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jorgemenikanorov: Correct, I wanted this page to help organize stuff going forward. Right now we have current development efforts going on and a roadmap.14:11
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enikanorov__sballe: what is ' more managed services features in LBaaS'?14:12
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jorgemenikanorov: Do you think breaking the requirements from the two listed perspectives makes sense? Or would you like to break it down another way?14:13
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jorgemI figured Openstack is for operators which is why I broke it down into user & operator requirements14:14
sbalukoff+1 to that14:15
enikanorov__you mean to lists of operators and users requirements?14:15
enikanorov__yep, that makes sense14:15
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jorgemCorrect, there are three right now under operator requirements. However, they can probably be broken down further.14:15
sballeenikanorov, it just means that as a service provider (hp public cloud)we need to be able ot offer LBaaS as a black box to users. For example we are currently using Libra and the service is manging the HA, resiliency, etc.14:15
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sballeenikanorov, I will send somethign out to the mailing list for discussion14:16
enikanorov__sballe: ok, please do14:16
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sballejorgem, +1 FROM ME TOO14:17
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enikanorov__let's get back to the obj model discussion14:17
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enikanorov__did you guys have a chance to look over the wiki page?14:18
sbalukoffNote that having separate user vs. operator requirements might lend itself to having separate user / operator API experiences. (ie. "operator features" actually make up that "admin API" we've talked about before.)14:18
jorgemenikanorov: Sounds good to me. Anything pop out from the doc that affects the object model discussion?14:18
sbalukoffThe requirements one?  Yes.14:18
sbalukoffOh, the object model one?14:18
s3wongenikanorov__: has the wiki page changed since last week?14:18
sbalukoffYes on that, too.14:18
edhallmonitoring and measurement14:19
enikanorov__s3wong: no, but last week some folks were not familiar14:19
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bloganis there a new wiki for the object model or the same one?14:19
bloganah okay14:19
s3wongenikanorov__: during last week's meeting there seems to be some consensus on model #2, IIRC?14:20
sbalukoffI'm still in favor of option 3, but I've only a minor nit-pick with option 2 on that page, too. Functionally, 2 and 3 are almost the same, but the terminology in 3 makes more sense.14:20
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jorgems3wong: +1 Correct14:20
enikanorov__sbalukoff: i tend to agree on teminology. i'm in favor of #2 from impl perspective (mode simple)14:21
rm_work+1, #2 looks the closest to what I'd like to see as well (also minor nitpicks)14:21
sbalukoffI like that in #2, pool isn't inherently tied to a load balancer.14:21
enikanorov__sbalukoff: yes, that was actually changed recently14:21
enikanorov__after we've discussed that with Sam14:21
sbalukoffOh, cool!14:21
s3wongI believe the consensus is that #2 is best for backward compatibility reason14:21
enikanorov__markmcclain: hi14:22
bloganwhat terminology do you guys not prefer?14:22
enikanorov__avishayb: hi14:22
enikanorov__blogan: that's about having IP address on the loadbalancer instead of VIP14:22
sbalukoffI prefer to call a tcp service listening on a specific tcp port a 'listener'14:22
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avishaybenikanorov__ : hi14:23
sbalukoffAnd yes, have the ip address associated with a higher-level object than the object associated with the tcp port.14:23
blogansbalukoff: what about to a less technical user? i'm not so sure listener would be very user friendly14:23
enikanorov__blogan: aws has listener14:24
sbalukoff(ie. "load balancer" in 2)14:24
enikanorov__avishayb: was Sam going to attend?14:24
bloganenikanorov: and i would argue aws is not user friendly14:24
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sbalukoffblogan: Really, a user using a load balancer won't know what a "listener" is?14:24
avishaybenikanorov__ : no14:24
jorgemsbalukoff: It can be made more simple no?14:25
avishaybenikanorov__ : he is on his way back from the US now14:25
rm_workI would still prefer LoadBalancer to be the high-level object, but maybe I'm old fashioned14:25
enikanorov__avishayb: i see...14:25
blogansbalukoff: i've dealth with many users of our clb that don't have a technical backgroudn14:25
jorgemenikanorov: Last week you mentioned we needed a core developer to weigh in on the conversation. Do we have one?14:25
enikanorov__rm_work: agree here. So i'm concerned that we don't have folks who have objections here on the meeting14:25
sbalukoffMostly, I'd like to see the term "VIP" mean "virtual IP" or "floating IP" like it does in other contexts.  Having it mean what is essentially the same as "listener" when something else more closely matches "virtual IP" is going to be confusing.14:26
enikanorov__jorgem: yes14:26
jorgemenikanorov: awesome14:26
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blogansbalukoff: i do agree though if vip is to be called vip it should probably have an ip address associated with it14:26
enikanorov__jorgem: markmcclain has some objections to the proposal #214:26
enikanorov__so we still need to either convince him or get explanations14:27
rm_workYes, VIP should be Virtual IP, and LoadBalancer should be the root object (equivalent to Listener, but easier terminology)14:27
sbalukoffexplanations with specific points to address would be great.14:27
rm_workre-defining VIP for this project is… odd14:27
enikanorov__sbalukoff: exactly.14:27
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sbalukoffIt's hard to make someone happy if they don't share that.14:28
sballeenikanorov, are the objections by markmcclain listed anywhere?14:28
crc32Should ip_address be on vip instead of loadbalancer.14:28
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enikanorov__sballe: in ML threads i believe14:28
sbalukoffcrc32: Only if vip *doesn't* have the TCP port associated with it, as well.14:28
sballeok thanks. I'll look for them14:28
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sbalukoffSpecifically, whichever object has the IP address, and whichever has the tcp port should be different objects, no matter what we call them.14:29
enikanorov__sballe: so basically some folks say loadbalancer object is an implementation detail that we should not expose to the user14:29
sbalukoff(They're going to have too many not-in-common attributes, which is why I say that.)14:29
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enikanorov__because user doesn't care14:29
enikanorov__sbalukoff: agree.14:29
rm_workso per crc32, shouldn't IP Address and tcp_port be flipped?14:30
crc32so the loadbalancer represents the listening ip while the vip represents the port?14:30
rm_workport on the LB and IP on the VIP?14:30
crc32that means the loadbalancer has only 1 ip but bunch of ports?14:30
enikanorov__rm_work: crc32: IP on LB, port on the VIP14:30
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enikanorov__1 ip and many ports, correct14:30
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jorgemTo crc32's point, I'd like to load balancer on both IPV4 and IPv6 addresses (per requirements doc), but #2 has the ip address on the load balancer. How can we address this concern?14:30
jorgemfor example14:31
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rm_workenikanorov__: but the opposite should be true14:31
crc32so if a user wants multi ips then they use multi vips I guess.14:31
enikanorov__jorgem: we can't14:31
jorgemenikanorov: :(14:31
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enikanorov__jorgem: so here's the problem14:31
rm_workstill not understanding the redefining of VIP to mean… not VIP14:31
enikanorov__we need to store neutron port in some object (LB or VIP)14:31
rm_workright, so store that in LB? and put IP with VIP....14:32
sbalukoffrm_work: This is to try to maintain backward compatibility, I think.14:32
rm_workalright, maybe there's something I don't understand about the way neutron works (i'm kind of new), but still not getting why VIP != Virtual IP (and thus storing the IP Address)14:33
sbalukoffrm_work: However, I'm with you on not understanding why we don't take this opportunity to fix the terminology. :)14:33
crc32sorry I meant to say if a user wants multi IPs they need multi loadbalancers then.14:33
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crc32Yea layer1 ports and tcp/udp parts are confusing me.14:34
enikanorov__crc32: the idea is that user doesn't care about whether it is multiple LBs or not14:34
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enikanorov__i don't share that opinion, btw14:34
rm_workwe may have very different users <_<14:34
sbalukoffYep. Mine seem to understand what a 'listener' is, for example. ;)14:34
enikanorov__i think if user cares about amount of LBs they consume - then it's good to give them such ability to group resources to 1 backend14:35
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crc32If by listener you mean listening on port 80 then sure I'm all for it.14:35
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enikanorov__listener is tcp port + protocol + protocol parameters (like ssl certs, etc)14:35
sbalukoffcrc32: Yep, that's what I mean with 'listener'14:35
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jorgemenikanorov: So this one of the reasons I wanted requirements doc. People have different understandings on #1) terminology and #2) how a load balancer should be abstracted. If requirements are met from all parties (hypothetically speaking) then we should be able to come to a consensus…I hope :)14:36
sbalukoffjorgem: I'm with you on the wanting IPv4 + IPv6, as well, in my model I solve that as having IPv6 address be an additional option attribute that goes in the same object that has the IPv4 address.14:37
enikanorov__jorgem: agree14:37
sbalukoffPretty simple solution, if you ask me. :/14:37
sdaguewhen we get to a natural break point, in the flow, I need to raise an issue with lbaas causing resets in the gate14:37
enikanorov__btw, on second thought i might be wrong14:37
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sbalukoffBut then, I'm also not as familiar with 'neutron ports' as I could be, eh.14:37
enikanorov__looking at the neutron model i see that network may have subnets version both 4 and 614:37
enikanorov__which means that port may have addresses from 2 subnets of different ip versions14:38
jorgemenikanorov: A glossary would be a good thing for the wiki too I think.14:38
sbalukoffjorgem: I also agree that talking requirements is the way to go to get consensus.14:38
sballe+1 on the glossary14:38
enikanorov__ok, i'll add such page14:38
rm_work+1 glossary, +1 reqs14:38
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crc32+1 glossary14:38
tvardeman+1 glossary14:38
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blogan-1 glossary14:38
rm_worksomeone can define for me what VIP means here <_<14:38
sbalukoff+1 glossary14:38
german_+1 glossary14:38
openlurk+1 glossary14:39
enikanorov__#action enikanorov to add glossary to lbaas wiki14:39
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sbalukoffrm_work: Yes. In 'legacy LBaas' it means ip address + tcp port + protocol attributes.  We're contemplating breaking it apart into separate objects so it doesn't mean that anymore.14:39
jorgemenikanorov: I think we need to pin point which requirements affect the converstation and then perhaps continue it on the ML?14:40
rm_workWTB: VIP = Virtual IP, how much rework would that actually be? insanity?14:40
crc32Listener sounds lijke a good term.14:40
sbalukoffrm_work: The complication is that 'VIP' is a very meaningful attribute in the legacy code.14:40
rm_workhmm, so14:40
rm_workwe're 100% committed to backwards compatibility from this point? no chance of a "v2"?14:41
sbalukoffWell, ans the legacy API. Again, we're trying not to break backward-compatibility.14:41
enikanorov__jorgem: yes, it mostly were done like 3 meetings ago, but from that time attendees have changed :)14:41
enikanorov__jorgem: obj model discussion targets two major features: multiple vips per pool and multiple pools per vip (L7 rules)14:41
sbalukoffI would be willing to break backward compatibility to get the features (ie. requirements) we need. But then again, we don't have a whole lot of users on Neutron LBaaS yet (precisely because it doesn't have all the features our customers need, yet.)14:42
enikanorov__bw compatibility is important14:42
rm_workright, i thought at this point would be the best time to DO api breaks14:42
rm_workbefore it is in heavy(er?) use14:43
jorgemsbalukoff: That makes sense to a degree.14:43
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bloganis there any way to version the api?14:43
enikanorov__i also think it's possible to evolve rather then just to the cutoff14:43
sbalukoffI think we can totally keep backward-compatible workflows.14:43
rm_workright, but if we're talking about something central like VIP, evolution may not be 100% possible?14:43
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jorgemenikanorov: +1, Evolving is going to constantly happen so we better get in the groove of it now14:43
enikanorov__it is possible, actually14:43
sbalukoffBut I'd love to fix the terminology, even if that means existing users of the service need to update their code to work with different terms in the API.14:44
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enikanorov__ok, I'll do the glossary14:44
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bloganenikanorov: is there anyway to version neutron lbaas outside of neutron itself being versioned?14:45
edhallsbalukoff, isn't terminology more a concern for a client application, not an API?14:45
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enikanorov__blogan: i'm not sure it's possible right now14:45
sbalukoffedhall: I think so too--  but you'll always get grumbling from users if they have to update their client application code.14:46
enikanorov__blogan: everything is v2.0 afaik14:46
edhallI'm not in the habit of controlling things by typing restful URLs manually14:46
vjayI think we should allow more than one loadbalancers to use the same VIP. It gives flexibility in management by creating many loadbalancers for the same IP for the user.14:46
vjayjorgem: how was it in atlas?14:47
enikanorov__vjay: what's the use case?14:47
vjayit keeps it logical.14:47
vjayi should be free to create 2 logical loadbalancers14:47
jorgemvjay: LB has many vips14:47
jorgemwhere vip = address + port14:47
sbalukoffvjay: I think we're getting confused as to what our terms mean, again.14:48
enikanorov__VIP shared by 2 LBs - that's something i not sure i understand14:48
enikanorov__(unless it's HA)14:48
enikanorov__and HA is not just 2 LBs for the same VIP14:48
vjayi would like to create a LB with (IP1) and Pool114:48
jorgemvjay: sorry my mistake lb had port vips just had address14:48
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vjayand another with LB with (IP1) and Pool214:49
bloganmultiple pools would solve that right?14:49
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rm_workatlas: VIP = Address, LB = Port, LB 1 <-> n VIP14:49
jorgemblogan: multiple pools should solve that14:49
enikanorov__vjay: tcp ports are different?14:49
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vjaytcp ports are differnt14:49
enikanorov__then it's 1 LB and two VIPs14:49
vjayi understand that enikanorov. but why have the restrication. a user should be able to create 2 LBs with one VIP each as well14:50
enikanorov__ok folks, I'd like to give a word to sdague who has something (bad) to say about lbaas in the gate14:50
enikanorov__sdague: hi14:50
vjayif we wants to reuse the pool, he can keep it in one LB14:50
sbalukoffI think that glossary will do wonders to help eliminate confusion from this discussion. :)14:50
blogansbalukoff: agreed14:51
crc32we can start with the definition of a vip.14:51
enikanorov__vjay: if he doesn't want to reuse the pool, it is still 1 LB14:51
enikanorov__but with two different pools for each of VIPs14:51
edhallsbalukoff, absolutely14:51
sdaguebasically the lbaas is failing a bunch14:52
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sdague is now filed14:52
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1295165 in neutron "lbaas is unreliable in the gate" [Critical,New]14:52
sdaguewe need someone on it14:52
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enikanorov__ok, thanks. we'll prioritize this one14:53
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vjayok. I understand how we can acheive that using current model. but I am afraid we are bringing implementation details in to the logical model. which might not be liked by marck or other core members.14:54
enikanorov__vjay: what kind of impl detail do you see we'd bring?14:54
vjay+1 on glossary14:54
enikanorov__should I +1 on glossary too? :)14:54
sbalukoffenikanorov__: If it helps. ;)14:55
bloganenikanorov: yes or it wont be done14:55
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vjaywhat is the reason to restrict 1 VIP ( i mean ip address) to one LB?14:55
vjayi thought it was due to implementation14:55
enikanorov__i'll try to do it without +1ing it :)14:55
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enikanorov__vjay: that was discussed once14:55
enikanorov__basically the restriction somewhat tied to how things work14:56
enikanorov__but it goes down to sharing a neutron port between backend14:56
vjaythat is implementation detail :-)14:56
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enikanorov__when you say, 'logic LBs' the only meaningful use case would be two create the LB without deploying it14:56
sbalukoffvjay: Is there any implementation in the world that works differently?14:56
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edhallvjay, so is your use case HA?14:57
enikanorov__that was discussed at the summit once, it decided that we don't want that14:57
vjayi think we are running short of time. i will send an email.14:57
enikanorov__and yes, HA is not something that should be managed by hand14:57
enikanorov__VIP reuse != HA case14:57
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vjaynot HA case14:58
edhallgotcha, just trying to figure out vjay's objection14:58
enikanorov__#action vjay to write to ML about VIP reuse14:58
vjayVIP will be placed in the same backend.14:58
jorgemAlso, everyone please update the requirements doc when you get a chance.14:59
vjayjust that it wont be part of the same loadbalancer14:59
vjayin the logical model14:59
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sbalukoffThanks for creating that, jorgem!14:59
jorgemsbalukoff: you are quite welcome!14:59
enikanorov__vjay: i see. that's too flexible then14:59
enikanorov__i mean like right now we have health monitors assiciated with the pool15:00
enikanorov__we will have vips associated with LBs15:00
enikanorov__imo that's beyond the real need...15:00
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enikanorov__ok. thatnks everyone15:01
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:01
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 20 15:01:31 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:01
openstackMinutes (text):
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jd__#startmeeting ceilometer15:04
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 20 15:04:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:04
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jd__ok it's just lag :)15:04
jd__hi everyone15:04
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* eglynn lurks ...15:06
jd__#topic Milestone status icehouse-rc115:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Milestone status icehouse-rc1 (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:07
jd__so we have a bunch of bugs to fix we probably need to focus a lot on that15:07
jd__I've started to go through the entire bug list  to triage the bug and target them as needed15:08
jd__help welcome :)15:08
jd__anything to discuss on that otherwise?15:08
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gordctrying to find a link.15:08
nprivalovaI've started critical bug about logging15:09
gordcnm. i should really read #link.lol15:09
gordcnprivalova: what are you plans for addressing that bug?15:09
nprivalovagordc: am I right that ceilometer pipeline is running inside swift to publish messages?15:10
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jd__nprivalova: yes15:10
gordcyep. it's used in middleware.15:10
jd__I saw that bug and i'm not sure how to fix it15:10
nprivalovaactually syslog and s-proxy are almost the same15:10
nprivalovaI guess it's not ceilometer problem15:11
gordcis there no way to filter logs from 'external' libraries? like how we define here:
nprivalovalooks like swift writes in 2 log files15:11
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jd__I don't know from what I saw in the bug the problem is that the log are set to debug15:12
jd__I don't see how we are supposed to change that?15:12
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gordcjd__: yeah, our logs should be debug ... (some of them are audit level right now)15:13
jd__the ones in the bug report are debug as far as I saw15:13
nprivalovathe problem is not id 'debug'15:13
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terriyunprivalova: do you have a link to the bug you're discussing?15:13
nprivalovaok, let's proceed in local-channel15:13
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1294789 in ceilometer "ceilometer swift module is spamming rsyslog with useless logs" [Critical,Triaged]15:14
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terriyunprivalova: thanks15:14
gordcnprivalova: i'm ok with discussing this after other topics.15:14
gordcseems like it'll take a while.15:14
jd__me too15:15
jd__is there any other topic?15:15
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nprivalovalooks like no15:17
jd__I guess not :)15:17
jd__#topic Tempest integration15:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Tempest integration (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:17
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nprivalovadoes everybody knows the whole story about tempest :)?15:18
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jd__what the whole story?15:18
jd__or what do you call the whole story? :)15:18
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terriyunprivalova: I'd like to hear stories :)15:19
nprivalovaI've started a thread [Ceilometer][QA][Tempest][Infra] Ceilometer tempest testing in gate15:19
jd__ok I saw that one I think but I didn't read everything yet15:19
nprivalovaso we cannot run tempest tests on gating as it is15:19
nprivalovathere are at least 2 blockers15:20
nprivalova1. DBDeadlock15:20
nprivalova2. One collector15:20
nprivalovabut Sean noticed that cpu is very high even with 1 collector15:21
gordcnprivalova: i strung together all my patches to see if my multi collector and dbdeadlock patches work well15:21
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nprivalovaso my plan is to continue investigation and do some profiling15:21
jd__clearly we need to improve that so all efforts should be oriented on that now15:22
jd__future kudos to gordc and nprivalova then :)15:22
gordcnprivalova: i'd imagine the cpu would be high with one collector. we're essentially passing hundred/thousands of messages to one source and letting it churn away.15:22
Alexei_9871gordc: it can't be the reason for high cpu15:23
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Alexei_9871hundred/thousands of messages would cause high io latency not cpu15:23
Alexei_9871it seems that we are creating/processing lot's of objects somehow15:24
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gordcAlexei_9871: sure... that and the load will always be at 100%.15:24
jd__Alexei_9871: that's a good hypothesis I think15:24
jd__doing profiling would help15:24
Alexei_9871gordc: yes but multiple collectors on same server won't help us15:24
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Alexei_9871jd__: me and nprivalova are now working on it15:25
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nprivalova#action provide profiling resuls15:25
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nprivalovadoesn't work :)15:25
Alexei_9871jd__: we disscussed a little bit one colletor issue and a better solution would be to use several native threads instead of workers15:25
Alexei_9871one collector*15:26
Alexei_9871jd__: what do you think?15:26
jd__Alexei_9871: nothing is thread safe15:26
jd__I'm not against it but you won't manage to do that until 2016 ;)15:27
Alexei_9871jd__: we still have GIL :)15:27
jd__that too, so the perf would be less than having several workers anyway15:27
jd__but I think it's out of scope here15:27
jd__anything else on testing?15:27
Alexei_9871jd__: problem with several workers is huge memory consumption15:27
nprivalovayep, We've created tests for pollsters15:27
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llu-laptopAlexei: how huge on collector?15:28
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gordcllu-laptop: same question15:28
nprivalovaI think we will get this info after profiling15:29
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jd__ok, moving on then15:29
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jd__let's go back at the end or after the meeting on that if you want15:29
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jd__#topic Release python-ceilometerclient?15:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:29
jd__eglynn-afk: around maybe? :)15:29
jd__I think we still have patches in the queue15:29
ildikov_jd__: you're right, we still have left15:30
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jd__ok and we've still have time to release, so let's wait a bit :)15:30
jd__#topic Open discussion15:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:30
ildikov_jd__: there was a gate issue with the clients' pypy gate, it's temporary fixed, I hope it will help in the process15:30
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Alexei_9871llu-laptop: around 50Mb * num_workers15:31
jd__not that terrible15:31
jd__ildikov_: ok15:31
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jd__nothing else? closing in a minute then15:36
terriyuthanks to everyone who helped anamalagon with her OPW application15:36
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terriyuWe'll find out April 21 if she got into the program15:36
tonglihi, can I ask a question regarding _ThreadPoolWithWait?15:37
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tongliI asked the question earlier in the ceilometer channel, but got no response.15:37
ildikov_terriyu: np, she's very active, so it's easy to help her :)15:37
tonglianybody know the reason why we want the threadPool to wait?15:38
jd__tongli: maybe nobody has the answer :)15:38
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tongliI noticed some rather strange behaviors.15:38
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terriyuildikov_: awesome :) I'll pass on the compliment15:39
tongliwhen message arrives in collector, if we have like 64 threads in the pool (default), then the thread will15:39
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tonglihold for a long time, until all the 64 threads get some tasks, then all the threads start execution.15:39
tonglitook a long time to figure this out, wonder if anyone knows anything about this.15:40
ildikov_terriyu: cool, thanks :)15:40
jd__wrapping up then, let's go on #openstack-ceilometer if needed :)15:42
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:42
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 20 15:42:52 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:42
openstackMinutes (text):
jd__see you guys15:42
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jd__happy hacking15:43
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llu-laptopoh my, just got tens of messages in a sec, I hate the lag :(15:46
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krotscheckttx: Do you want to run this one?16:02
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ttxkrotscheck: nope, go for it16:04
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krotscheck#startmeeting storyboard16:04
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 20 16:04:47 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is krotscheck. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:04
krotscheckRoll call, who's here?16:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'16:04
NikitaKonovalovI'm here16:05
ttx(for the first 15min or so)16:05
krotscheckOk, let's get over the big stuff quick16:05
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krotscheck#topic MVP16:05
*** openstack changes topic to "MVP (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:05
krotscheckCurrent status is "everything's working except for comments"16:06
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krotscheckjeblair wants comments before infra copts it. We've been dogfooding it ourselves to some extent.16:06
NikitaKonovalovThe controller is no review16:06
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: And it looks fantastci16:06
NikitaKonovalovand thaks to ruhe, it's tested16:06
krotscheckThe UI is causing me a bit more issues, because I'm still trying to get my paging patch working16:06
krotscheckSo I haven't gotten to work on that, current ETA this afternoon.16:07
ttxkrotscheck: I think the MVP needs task state change as well ?16:07
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krotscheckttx: That doesn't seem to be explicitly listed:
ttxkrotscheck: probably not16:08
krotscheckttx: I stand corrected, there's a mention of setting a task as "invalid"16:08
ttxkrotscheck: I just don't see how comments can be more useful than task changes16:08
krotscheckIt's implicit16:08
ttxsince the idea is to track completion of tasks overall :)16:08
krotscheckStatus changes aren't that hard, thankfully16:08
ttxyeah, i figured16:08
krotscheckOk, I'll add that to the agenda16:08
ttxkrotscheck: could be considered MVP+116:09
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krotscheckOk, so outstanding for jeblair is comments, outstanding for ttx are task statuses.16:09
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ttxkrotscheck: if infra thinks they can use it without task changes, i'm fine with leaving them out :)16:10
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krotscheckjeblair: ?16:10
ttxin all cases it's probably the next step16:10
jeblairoh i think they're pretty important :)16:10
ttxkrotscheck: about comments... the POC tracked the history of changes as comments. Do you think we should too ?16:10
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ttxi.e. it would interleave "system remarks" with "human comments"16:11
ttxthe same way Lp does16:11
krotscheckttx: Let's postpone that discussion until we get to comments.16:11
jeblairttx: that's a good idea, but something i was thinking about recently is that we might want to record the history of editing the story description...16:11
krotscheck(That's on the agenda)16:11
ttxI think it makes it easier to follow the flow16:11
* jeblair waits for appropriate time in agenda16:11
* ttx shuts up16:11
krotscheck#topic Auth Research16:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Auth Research (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:11
jeblair(where's the agenda?)16:12
krotscheckjeblair: #link
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: were you able to do some research into ACL systems that might help us moving forward?16:12
NikitaKonovalovwell first we still need to move tokens to database16:13
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krotscheck(For those of you new to this discussion, I threw some ideas into an ether pad. They are very draft-ish)16:14
NikitaKonovalovor we will be not able to scale API controllers16:14
NikitaKonovalovBut to make things work faster we may use memcached16:14
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NikitaKonovalovkeystone has this functionality implemented16:14
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: I don't think memcached is an option - one of our requirements is that API keys can be generated and persisted for Infra daemons. If we keep those tokens in memcache we risk losing them.16:15
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krotscheck(unless there's a memcache persistence layer that I'm not familiar with)16:16
NikitaKonovalovI mean, keep them in database an save to memcache for performance16:16
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NikitaKonovalovand expiration policy for memcache, so it does not get full of usless tokens16:16
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krotscheckI'm not certain memcache is the right answer here.16:17
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krotscheckDon't get me wrong - having the performance would be fantastic.16:17
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krotscheckAnd using the expiration policy as our  token lifetime would be pretty simple.16:18
NikitaKonovalovI was mostly looking in keystone, so that's the way they do it16:18
NikitaKonovalovand actually they support some other key-value storages16:18
krotscheckOk, so in-use tokens would get cached into memcache.16:18
krotscheckI like that better.16:19
krotscheckHow easy would it be to adapt keystone's code and make it more pecanish?16:19
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krotscheckThat's probably a broader question.16:20
ttxkrotscheck: do we need to optimize token storage right now ?16:20
krotscheckttx: I was about to ask that16:20
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krotscheckSince we need to put it in the database anyway, let's start there.16:20
ttxwe expect like 10 users max at this point :)16:20
NikitaKonovalovthere is an WSGI middleware in keystone that does everything realted to tokens, but I'm not sure we can take a part from it16:21
ttxsounds like something that's easy to abstract after the fact16:21
krotscheckWe should be able to layer on memcache later.16:21
NikitaKonovalovttx: agree16:21
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krotscheckkrotscheck: And, to be honest, we might want to use memcache not only for our tokens.16:21
NikitaKonovalovlet's start with databsae only16:21
krotscheckAny disagreements?16:21
krotscheck(do we need a vote?_16:21
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ttxnope go  for it16:22
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jeblair(but also ++memcache)16:22
krotscheck#agreed First step on Storyboard ACL's is to get the tokens into the db, further design discussion postponed until then.16:22
krotscheck#idea Layer on memcache to optimize token queries.16:22
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krotscheck#topic Database migration pain16:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Database migration pain (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:23
krotscheckruhe did a great job removing the sqlite pain over the weekend.16:23
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krotscheckttx: You mentioned there was another potential issue?16:23
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ttxkrotscheck: I worked around it. Foreign keys in the initial DB definition make it hard to remove them16:23
krotscheckttx: Got it16:24
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ttxbut looks like I hacked around it:
ttxbasically we didn'(t name the constraints, and you need to have their name to remove them afterwards16:24
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krotscheckFYI for everyone: Unit tests are now run off of sqllite using the sqla manifest generated from our models. Our migration tests then run a table comparison to see whether the DB generated by that manifest matches the DB generated by our migrations.16:25
ttxthe hack is to retroactively name them after what they end up being named in mySQL DB16:25
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NikitaKonovalovttx: will the migrations work after you have changed the initial one?16:25
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ttxthe leftover quetsion is... should we just name them all NOW (or remove them all NOW) to avoid future pain16:25
ttxNikitaKonovalov: sure16:25
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jeblairi'm in favor of removing them all now...16:25
NikitaKonovalovthat's great16:25
ttxNikitaKonovalov: it will only break people that have postgresql deployed and do CD16:25
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jeblairkrotscheck: oh, mordred and i had a convo in #storybeard earlier and i don't think you were online16:26
jeblairlet me paste it16:26
ttxbecause our overwrite of the initial migration doesn't correspond to their current state16:26
krotscheckHeh. Storybeard.16:26
ttxLike it16:26
ttxI'm also in favor of removing them all now16:26
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ttxI know cody-somerville expressed the other preference16:26
krotscheckjeblair: Yeah, my znc bouncer is fubar right now.16:27
jeblairkrotscheck: storybeard is extra hipster16:27
NikitaKonovalovlgtm, because thous are not the migrations actually, they are kind of "ajusting the model"16:27
krotscheckI think we have an april fool's joke.16:27
ttxThat said, if we remove them now it will look a bit funni in the migrations16:27
ttxor funny16:27
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jeblairso the tldr is that since alembic creates the schema, we can simply omit fk definitions from alembic, but still have the sqla orm understand the relationships16:28
ttxnothing a migration consolidation can't fix16:28
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ttxjeblair: yes16:28
cody-somervilleplease don't get rid of fk constraints.16:28
jeblair(as a practice for eliminating fks in the db going forward)16:28
krotscheckcody-somerville has the floor!16:28
* ttx is happy to defers to the MySQL overlords16:29
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ttxif mordred says they are useless and potentially a barrier to scale, he knows a lot more tahn I do on that toic16:30
krotscheckI'm in the same camp. I've relied on FK's a lot in the past, but mordred's argument makes sense.16:31
cody-somervillewe will never be at that scale.16:31
cody-somervilleplus, bugs!16:31
cody-somervilletoo high of a risk that we mess up and corrupt our data16:31
cody-somervilleour data deserves the extra protection fk provides16:31
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jeblairi don't think it provides any extra protection16:31
cody-somervilleit will not affect our ability to scale16:31
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jeblairthe application needs to understand and enforce these constraints anyway, so it's wasteful to have the database do it16:32
cody-somervilleuntil have like terabytes of data16:32
ttxcody-somerville: i'm fine either way. Just want to pick a way and stick to it, rather than do it 10 migrations down the road16:32
jeblairand they cause all sorts of problems with schema changes (including but not limited to what we've just seen)16:32
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cody-somervillejeblair: data lives a long time, code not so much.16:32
ttxI think we can have that discussion off-meeting16:33
cody-somervilleand the issue we're seeing is due to alembic being a young project. It's just a missing feature or it's doing something wrong.16:33
krotscheckSeems like a longer argument. How about we take this to openstack-dev?16:33
ttxjust need to make sure cody and monty are in the room at the same time rather than talk past each other16:33
jeblairttx: ++16:33
ttxotherwise i just agree with the last one who spoke16:34
krotscheckSeems like a big enough 'best practice' argument that the rest of the community would care.16:34
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ttxkrotscheck: my personal feeling would be: FKs just created pain for me, let's get rid of them16:34
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* jeblair agrees with the last thing ttx said16:35
krotscheckttx: Well, that's SQLA's abstraction that's causing the pain. If you were working natively that wouldn't be that much of a problem, but I see your point.16:36
krotschecknatively on one database that is.16:36
cody-somervilleThis is sort of a similar argument to type systems.16:36
jeblairthey will bite us again on some migration that's impossible to do because of a fk constraint16:36
cody-somervilleFor what it's worth, the south migration engine handles this just fine.16:36
krotscheckAlright, let's take this offline. Who wants to start the dev-list thread?16:37
jeblairor even some code error that the fk system _didn't_ catch but is impossible to clean up due to it.  etc.16:37
cody-somervillebut yes, fk constraints beyond that can cause issues and it's usually because we want it to. (oh hey, you're doing something that fundamental breaks your data model integrity).16:37
jeblairkrotscheck: my recommendation would not be to look to openstack-dev for a decision.  you will get opinions, but we already have those.  :)16:37
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ttxcody-somerville: I think jeblair's argument is that migartion engines work better with simple DB definitions, and ORMs preserve integrity from the app perspective16:37
jeblairttx: wow why can't i summarize my thinking like that.16:37
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cody-somervilleWhat happens when someone decided to write some raw SWL?16:37
krotscheckjeblair: It's a distraction tactic. I actually think the current status is painful but understood, and therefore manageable, therefore we can focus on other features :)16:37
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cody-somervilleWhat happens when we do major refactoring? and maybe we mess up.16:38
ttxjeblair: we form a synergetic double-human16:38
krotscheckcody-somerville: We write more tests :)16:38
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cody-somervillethe data is just too valuable to risk16:38
jeblaircody-somerville: so we need good real tests of schemas and migrations (on mysql and not sqlite)16:38
jeblaircody-somerville: ++16:38
jeblaircody-somerville: and if that fails and we hose our production instance, we restore from backup.  :)16:39
krotscheck#topic Comments16:39
cody-somervillepeople suck at writing tests. writing good tests is hard.16:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Comments (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:39
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cody-somervilleThis is like an argument on type safety16:39
* krotscheck is forcing this conversation offline16:39
jeblaircody-somerville: (which is the same thing we would do with any kind of delete lots of data error, which fks not only don't protect against but also can facilitate)16:39
ttxwe shouldn't spend the whole meeting on that. Better to expose each arguments in a well-thought ML post and see if we can reach consensus16:39
ttxkrotscheck: +116:40
ttxI'd go post on -infra16:40
NikitaKonovalovagree, let's discuss that in mailing list16:40
krotscheckOk: jeblair wants comments! We all want comments! We have simple non-threaded comments on a patch right now, but I haven't been able to look at/polish the UI yet.16:40
krotscheckCurrent start ETA is this afternoon, assuming I don't get into another argument with jeblair on paging :)16:41
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krotscheckjeblair and tax mentioned the idea that each task should have a log of changes.16:41
jeblairright, ttx was suggesting incorporating that as comments16:42
krotscheckMy perspective is that a history log is valuable, however it's a slightly different problem than comments, and should be treated differently.16:42
NikitaKonovalovwe can handle that with comments, by just setting a type16:42
jeblairi was throwing out the idea that things like 'editing the description' may want to be logged too, but might be too verbose for comments, so we might want a side-channel log of things like that16:42
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jeblairi don't know if that means that we should put all actions in the side channel log, or some, or what...16:43
ttxkrotscheck: so there are two types of "history commenst"16:43
NikitaKonovalovwhat about a checkbox for show/hide service commnets16:43
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jeblairttx: but i do agree with the idea that peoples actions on stories should be visible, and makes sense to put them in the chronology of comments16:43
NikitaKonovalovthe UI can filter them before rendering16:43
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ttxkrotscheck: the first type is meaningful for the discussion. For example, an autocomment saying you added a task affecting Nova spares you from having to post a "Oh BTW this also affects Nova apparently" comment16:43
krotscheckttx: Well, there's an event log for what has happened to the story, and there's a comment sections. The event log would include something like "so and so left a comment", and the UI could resolve that comment, but it would also include state changes, etc.16:44
ttxthe second type is more an activity log16:44
ttxkrotscheck: if you look at LP, whenever you change status you can easily add a comment about it to justify iy16:44
ttxso for example, if you change task status to "merged" you can add a link to the review that was merged16:45
ttxI hate it when people change something and don't explain why16:45
jeblair(mildly distracting but i want to mention it anyway: launchpad's rolling up of several actions into one is really nice)16:45
ttxSo I don't want us to discourage that16:45
ttx(jeblair: yes)16:46
krotscheckttx: I don't want to overload comments with additional functionality that isn't really part of the design discussion.16:46
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ttxkrotscheck: well, the story discussion is all about steps to resolve bugs16:46
ttxso things like "this also affects nova" are pretty critical in the discussion16:47
krotscheckOk, so we're conflating "features" and "design" here.16:47
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krotscheckWhat jeblair is asking for is the ability to collect several actions into one, which I think is good.16:47
krotscheckWhat ttx is asking for is the ability to see a full log of a story/tasks history16:47
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ttxkrotscheck: no16:47
krotscheckI'm sure we have a bunch of other ways that people want to see the lifecycle of a task.16:48
ttxkrotscheck: i'm saying that key status changes are part of the discussion16:48
jeblairlet's not focus on the thing i mentioned; it's distracting and can be addressed later16:48
jeblairttx: ++16:48
ttxkrotscheck: and that's based on my experience with openstack and LP16:48
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ttxnot just somethign I deeply believe in16:48
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krotscheckttx: What I'm saying is that what you're asking for is a feature, and can easily be represented in the UI that way, however how that actually ends up being implemented technically is irrellevant.16:49
jeblairhere's a nice bug:
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1266513 in openstack-ci "Some Python requirements are not hosted on PyPI" [Critical,In progress]16:49
jeblairwith lots of status changes16:49
jeblairalong with associated comments16:50
krotscheckttx: So when we talk about "comments", to me that says : The area in the UI that you're interacting with that contains comments"16:50
ttxkrotscheck: I see your point16:50
krotscheckttx: When I say comments, I mean the comments API that handles someone actually talking.16:50
ttxkrotscheck: I'm just saying whatever we end up doing should support displaying more than just "comments" in the "timeline"16:50
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jeblairi think there may also be the implication that the "update task state" api may need a comment parameter as well16:51
krotscheckttx: So my suggestion is that when someone leaves a comment, or changes a status, they actually create an event associated with that story, which includes some reference to the comment and/or status change.16:51
ttxthe simplest way to do that is to have a single table with comment types, like in the POC16:51
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ttxand have status chnages be fed into that table16:51
ttxbut that's implementation.16:51
krotscheckAnd then the UI actually renders a filterable list of events, which themselves resolve the related resources for display16:51
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krotscheckSo right now, is anything other than a single-threaded comment list asked for?16:52
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ttxyes, I think using "timeline" (and "events") clarifies what we mean16:52
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ttxi was just not using "comments" for the thing you meant16:52
krotscheckttx: Using the timeline metaphor can easily be extended to projects, features, stories, releases....16:52
jeblairkrotscheck: that sounds reasonable (especially the 1:many event:action-or-comment aspect)16:52
ttxif comments are just a part of a timeline that will contain other types of important events, ++16:53
krotscheckFurther design discussion pending, I think what NikitaKonovalov gave us is sufficient for MVP, but it's good to know this is on the horizon16:53
ttx7min left16:53
krotscheck#topic Paging16:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Paging (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:54
krotscheckI'm altering my paging patch to use oslo's marker/limit rather than offset/limit, and to make the max/default page sizes configurable via storyboard.conf.16:54
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krotscheckHopefully the patch will be updated today.16:54
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krotscheck#topic Task status16:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Task status (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:54
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krotscheckttx: Any ask for anything more than a status FK-ish link to a table of valid task statuses?16:55
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ttxkrotscheck: nope16:55
krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: Think you can add that?16:55
ttxmy point was just: until we add that, we can list work todo but can't track completion of anything16:56
ttxso it's like the next thing after MVP imho16:56
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NikitaKonovalovwe can have more complicated queryis to fetch that16:56
ttx(personally I find it more critical than comments, but that's the result-oriented me)16:56
jeblairttx: we can't mark the mvp as complete until we do, so it's self-necessitating! :)16:57
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ttxjeblair: nice16:57
krotscheckWe're running out of time, and I don't want to start another design discussion.16:57
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jeblairi think we all agree they are important16:58
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krotscheckLet's move this to offline, NikitaKonovalov, I'm just going to assume you make your magic happen and the feature will appear.16:58
ttxkrotscheck: should be easy since at this point we have only 3 states and don't plan to get smarter than that16:58
ttxFWIW the end goal is to have that set automatically on merge for git-backed projects16:58
krotscheckttx: Yeah, a simple implementation could just be an enum.16:58
ttxbut in all cases we need to be able to manually set it too16:58
NikitaKonovalovstory/<id>/stats may render everything about how many thing are in which state16:58
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krotscheckNikitaKonovalov: That feels more like a /story?state=foo to me.16:59
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krotscheckBut we can argue about that.16:59
krotscheck#topic Requested New Feature16:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Requested New Feature (Meeting topic: storyboard)"16:59
ttxin other news, I plan to spend more time on Storyboard in the coming weeks. It's a nice distraction from boring release matters16:59
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krotscheckAnything burning a hole in someone's brain that we need to put ahead of comments and task status?16:59
ttxand I want to stay up to snuff16:59
ttxkrotscheck: nope17:00
krotscheck#endmeeting storyboard17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 20 17:00:12 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes (text):
jeblairkrotscheck: arg to endmeeting not necessary17:00
krotscheckGot it17:00
krotscheckOk, I have to go catch a bus.17:00
krotscheckI'll be deep in config land until lunchish.17:00
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ameyhi all, since no discussion is going on, I would like to ask if you'll have read the blue print for the project proposal I sent a few days back regarding run time integrity checks?17:05
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ameyThis is a project by a group of graduate students from Carnegie Mellon and we would like comments/suggestions from the community17:06
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anteayaamey: best to ask your question in #openstack-dev17:08
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ameyanteaya : Okay. But since this is related to OpenStack security, I thought it would be a good place to discuss it17:11
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anteayaamey: discussions in this channel only happen during scheduled meetings17:13
anteayaamey: open discussion takes place in #openstack-dev17:13
anteayaif you think security would be breached by discussing in the open please pm ttx or fungi17:13
anteayathey are are the vulnerability management team and can advise you further17:14
ameyanteaya: Got it. Thank you.17:14
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 20 18:01:01 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:01
hyakuheiHeh, I was just cheeking meetbot :)18:01
bdpaynehappy Thursday everyone18:01
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bdpayne#topic Roll Call18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:01
nkinderHi all18:01
bdpayneplease check in18:01
* hyakuhei is here.18:01
malini1present :-)18:02
cfiorentHi, Cristian here18:02
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bdpaynealright... let's get started18:03
bdpayne#topic Agenda18:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:03
paulmoPaul Montgomery here18:03
chair6<- jamie from HP here18:03
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bdpayneI can do a quick wrapup from the Lead election18:03
hyakuheiOSSNs, Reviews, Future Project suggestions, Infrastructure projects18:03
bdpaynewhat else is on the agenda?18:03
nkinderI wanted to talk about SSL18:03
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bdpayneok, lots of stuff18:04
nkinder...just in general for services/endpoints18:04
bdpaynewe'll get rolling right away... and I'll try to leave a little time at the end for other things18:04
bdpayne#topic Elections18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Elections (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:04
bdpayneAs you all probably saw on the mailing list, Rob Clark was elected to the Lead role for the Juno cycle18:04
bdpayneCongrats to Rob!18:04
bknudsoncongrats to rob18:05
hyakuhei:) Thanks guys18:05
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bdpayneAnd thanks to everyone for participating in this process... I think we learned that this is truly a healthy group with lots of people wanting to contribute18:05
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hyakuheiThanks to malini1 and sriram too18:05
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bdpayneSince Rob and I have been working closely already, the transition should be pretty straightforward18:06
bdpayneBut I'll be working with Rob over the next couple of months to formally hand everything over to him18:06
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hyakuheiIt's going to be lots of fun...18:07
bdpayne#topic OSSNs18:07
*** openstack changes topic to "OSSNs (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:07
bdpayneWhere do we stand with OSSNs today?18:07
hyakuheinkinder: what's going on with the git/gerrit stuff?18:07
nkinderThere is a review request out to create the repo18:07
nkinderMy understanding is that those are looked at on Fridays18:07
nkinderfetching it...18:07
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hyakuheiThanks nkinder18:08
nkinderannegentle will be changing her review to a +1 after a conversation we had earlier this morning18:08
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nkinderafter it's in place, we can get the commit group set up, then look at auto-publishing and such18:09
hyakuheinkinder: yeah, looks like it's just tied up in technical stuff rather than any fundamental objections18:09
bknudsonwho's openstack-security-notes-core18:09
hyakuheinkinder: This is going to be great18:09
nkinderbknudson: to start, I asked for hyakuhei, bdpayne, and myself18:09
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bknudsonok, it's a new group.18:10
nkinderbknudson: but we should certainly evaluate that further if others want to regularly get involved in OSSNs18:10
nkinderbknudson: yes18:10
bdpaynethis should really help keep the OSSN process organized18:10
hyakuheiThe nice thing about this system is it's easy to track participation, the group will pretty much become self selecting over time I imagine :)18:10
hyakuheiI'm very excited about it18:10
nkinderme too18:10
bdpayneare there any OSSNs that need an owner right now?18:11
hyakuheiI think I saw at least one orphan18:11
hyakuheiand bdpayne I think we still have a private one that needs to be addressed?18:11
nkinderyes -
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1287219 in keystone "scope of domain admin too broad in v3 policy sample" [Medium,Fix committed]18:11
hyakuhei^ Doesn't look too bad.18:12
hyakuheichair6: Do you have someone that could take a look at this?18:12
bdpayneah gotcha... let's sync on the private on after this meeting18:12
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chair6hyakuhei - sure, i should be able to take that18:13
bdpaynethanks chair618:13
bdpayneok, any other OSSN discussion?18:14
hyakuhei#action chair6 to find someone to take on 128721918:14
bknudsonlooking forward to the repo18:14
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bknudsonI'll put it on my watch list18:14
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bdpaynenkinder can you send out an email to the list with details about the new setup once that goes through?18:14
nkinderbdpayne: yep, will do18:14
bdpayne#topic Future Projects18:15
hyakuheiYes - nkinder are there any outstanding tasks or things you need support with for the OSSN migration etc?18:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Future Projects (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:15
nkinderhyakuhei: no, they're already migrated to the repo that will be used to initialize the new repo18:15
hyakuheiAh yes that's right :)18:15
bdpaynehyakuhei wanted to talk about future projects...18:16
hyakuheiAbsolutely - so this is really an open point for ideas18:16
hyakuheiI'd like to see more content around trusted compute pools in the guide, which I'm happy to work with malini1 on18:16
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bdpaynemy #1 request... I'd like to see us get tightly integrated with the core projects18:17
hyakuheiI'm also interested in what static analysis/ keyword checkers etc we can introduce into the infrastructure chain18:17
hyakuheibdpayne: yeah me too18:17
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bknudsonwhat does this group look for for projects? updates/chapters to the security guide?18:17
bknudsonhow about doing audits?18:17
malini1bdpayne +1 on closer involvement with other projects18:17
bknudsonand the threat modeling18:17
hyakuheiActually that's a good point. Who here, in the OSSG, has good PTL contacts in an OpenStack project?18:18
bdpayneand we should figure out how to re-kickstart the book editing work18:18
bdpayneI work with the Glance PTL18:18
hyakuheibknudson: The threat modelling that's being discussed on the mailing list is very interesting18:18
malini1bknudson: at the barbican meeting I raised the subject of a chapter on key manager, it is nearly out of incubation and I have a helper18:18
nkinderI have PTL contacts too18:18
hyakuheiI have infra, Ironic and Triple-O guys I can talk to18:18
bknudsonhave you guys heard of FIPS 140-2?18:18
bknudsonand there's a NIST standard, too...18:19
hyakuheimalini1: good idea18:19
hyakuheibknudson: what about fips?18:19
nkinderbknudson: yes, familiar with fips18:19
hyakuheifips 140-2 use a really old version of openssl-kernel. fips 140-3 use superglue on your server chassis.18:19
hyakuheilove fips :)18:19
bknudsondocument how to run openstack in fips mode18:19
bknudsonif that's not documented already18:19
hyakuheiIt's certainly worth doing. There are a lot of decisions you can make that easily break fips18:20
bknudsonand validating it works via openstack CI would be great, too.18:20
bdpaynesadly, that would probably be useful18:20
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hyakuheiWith regards to chapters etc, in the guide, I think they're a good way to bring new people in. It's also a nice way to itroduce people to the review process etc18:20
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bdpayneso this is a great list18:21
bdpayneI think my other caution would be to remember the size of our community18:21
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bknudsonpotentially, could have a "mode" for oslo.config that would only allow the "secure" setting.18:21
bdpayneI think that we should find a small number of things that will have a high impact18:21
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bdpayneAnd then we should do those things *very* well18:21
bdpayneThat will allow our community to grow and get greater acceptance throughout OpenStack18:22
nkinderbdpayne: +118:22
bdpayneand then we can gradually expand18:22
hyakuheibdpayne: agreed, but for now lets get everything down and then go through some prioritisation and get people to find what they want to contribute to18:22
malini1bdpayne: +118:22
bdpayneso I'd just caution against diluting too fast18:22
bdpayneyeah, makes sense18:22
hyakuheiIt'd be nice to pull out a few easy-wins too18:22
bdpayne#topic Infra Improvements18:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Infra Improvements (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:23
bdpayneWhat, if anything, is needed here?18:23
hyakuheiI'm interested in opportunities to hook checks into jenkins etc that check for obvious bad things18:23
bdpaynelike some of the security testing stuff that we've discussed in the past?18:24
nkinderlike static checks, or something more?18:24
bdpayneI agree that would be nice18:24
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bdpaynebut first step is to put together the tests18:24
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hyakuheiYeah so SA _like_ Fortify or Coverity but also checks for stupid things18:24
hyakuheilike pickle.loads18:25
bdpaynepython makes this a bit tricky, but some things can be done18:25
hyakuheiStuff like that which can sneak back in18:25
malini1stupid things like "password" in a log statement18:25
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bdpayneopenstack is still at a point where you can nearly create a CVE generator using grep ;-)18:25
bdpaynewhich means we can add value here18:25
hyakuhei I think they are great high-value things to add, write once, catch many :)18:25
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paulmoI've been proposing identification and isolation of log/notification data up front in Solum to avoid searches for 'password'-like stuff that won't cover every scenario btw.18:25
hyakuheiMakes sense18:26
bdpayneso we've had a few false starts on security testing... I think we'd just need an owner for this idea that can really push it forward18:26
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malini1paulmo +118:26
hyakuheiThough in the run-testing we can introduce steps like 'staining' where we put known values in at the front end and see where and if they end up in bad places at the back end18:26
bknudsonare there any good python code scanners out there?18:26
bknudsonseems like an impossible task18:26
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hyakuheiSA for Python is spotty at best18:27
paulmo is the link btw for those interested18:27
hyakuheiCoverity and HP Fortify both have _some_ support18:27
bdpayneyeah, doing this in python is hard18:27
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bdpaynebut, even some basic checks could be useful18:27
hyakuheibdpayne: it is for static, but I think, with the way the OpenStack testing works, there are interesting DA opportunities too, though they may be a ways off18:28
bdpayneyes, and yes18:28
bdpayneok... so I think this would be a great thing for someone to step up to do18:28
hyakuheiOne last thing - those security guidelines we were working on need fleshing out somewhat still I think18:28
bdpayneif done properly, those could be used as a conversation starter between the projects and OSSG18:29
nkinderyes, they do.  They could also be used as a basis for identifying the previously mentioned test areas18:29
hyakuheichair6: Do you think you could find someone to add content to ?18:29
bdpayne"What do you, as a PTL, think about these guidelines... are the helpful / practical for your project?  Is there something OSSG could do to help support making these kinds of things happen?  Etc..."18:30
paulmoI'll keep contributing as new items pop up in Solum that seem generic across openstack18:30
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hyakuhei^ Great stuff.18:30
chair6yeah, that looks like something useful to build out .. i'll get someone on it18:30
bdpaynetime check: we are over time right now... and still have one topic18:30
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bdpaynenkinder... you want to take the SSL discussion to the ML?18:31
nkinderbdpayne: sure.18:31
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bdpayneok, thanks18:31
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hyakuheiThank you everyone!18:31
bdpaynealright everyone... thanks for a nice meeting... let's go do some great work :-)18:31
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:31
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markwash#startmeeting glance20:05
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 20 20:05:33 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is markwash. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:05
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: glance)"20:05
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'glance'20:05
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markwashHi folks, sorry for the late start. Can we get a roll call on glance meeting attendees?20:05
gokrokveGeorgy Okrokvertskhov20:07
markwashmarkwash: here ;-)20:07
markwashis it just the three of us?20:07
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ameadenikhil__: you were excited to be in the meeting today, where are you!20:07
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markwashAll right, gokrokve ameade anything you guys want to talk about today? we can make a quick agenda20:08
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gokrokveWe updated etherpad with artifacts discussions:
nikhil__ameade: oh, was in meeting-alt. darn it!20:09
ameademarkwash: so i think i am going to start pushing for the 'brick' library to get out of cinder and then help zhiyan with the cinder store code at some point20:09
markwashoh shoot I am in the wrong room!20:09
markwashHey, let's switch over to the other, sorry about that20:10
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mtreinish#startmeeting qa22:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Mar 20 22:00:17 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"22:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'22:00
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mtreinishhi who's here today?22:00
mtreinish^^^ Today's agenda22:00
maurosrhi \o22:01
mtreinishsdague, dkranz: you guys around?22:01
mtreinishwell let's get started22:02
dkranzYes, just here22:02
mtreinish#topic Blueprints22:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)"22:02
mtreinishso sdague I'm assuming you left the note on the agenda about the specs repo22:02
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sdagueI wanted to make sure that we started talking about the qa-specs repository22:03
sdagueso based on the conversation last week we're going to try to do something very similar to what nova is doing with a -specs repository for reviewing blueprints22:03
sdagueI think the right thing to do is unapprove all non-high items, and have specs proposed back in through this new process22:04
sdaguethat will hopefully help us actually clarify blueprints in advance22:04
mtreinishyeah I agree that's probably the right approach for the exisiting bps22:04
sdaguea couple of questions for folks22:04
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sdague1) do you think we need a more formal template? or is a free form better to get started?22:05
sdagueI am leaning towards free form, as I'd like to build template by experimentation22:05
dkranzsdague: I'd say free form22:05
sdaguehowever, if people feel strong the other way we can do that22:05
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cyeohmaybe a very rough template for some guidance? But I'm happy either way22:05
dkranzUntil we get a feel for what people will put there22:05
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mtreinishsdague: yeah I think free form is better too, but maybe some guidelines on what content is expected in the proposal22:06
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mtreinishsdague: for example our debate on where to put target release22:06
sdaguecyeoh: you have some ideas about what rough guidance?22:06
cyeohcan probably steal the basic stuff from the nova template - things like pointing back to the blueprint etc22:06
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cyeohids of who is going to work on it etc22:06
sdaguecyeoh: ok, sure, that's probably fair22:07
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sdaguecyeoh: you want to write a few things here -
cyeohI can do that this afternoon if you'd like (just can't do it this morning)22:07
sdaguecyeoh: sure22:07
sdagueso if you are going to do it your afternoon, yuo want to just propose it as a review to the repo?22:08
sdagueand we'll do it that way22:08
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cyeohsure, will do22:08
sdagueI think basic problem statement, and approach, target time frame, people working on it, and where it would go in the tempest tree are the things I can think of at the moment22:08
sdaguemy brain is a bit gate fried though :)22:09
mtreinishsdague: yeah that seems like a reasonable list22:09
sdagueso the assistance on proposing template is appreciated22:09
cyeohso are we planning on having people resubmit every cycle?22:09
sdaguecyeoh: I don't think so22:09
sdagueI think if an idea goes obsolete then we mark it somehow in the template22:09
sdaguesorry, in the spec22:10
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sdaguebut I think we can figure out that workflow later22:10
ken1ohmichishould we stop unapproved bp tasks until approval with this process?22:10
cyeohsdague: sounds good to me22:10
sdagueken1ohmichi: honestly, I don't want you to stop doing anything :)22:10
sdagueyou're too productive22:10
sdaguemostly I want us to go back through this process to make sure things are clear22:11
sdaguefor juno22:11
sdaguebecause we definitely got into a lot of confusion on things like the advanced network debugging22:11
sdaguethat I feel like needs an overview document to make sure we're on top of it22:12
sdagueso consider this an "in parallel" for anything you are actively working on22:12
sdagueand a pre req for new things22:12
dkranzsdague: So should be be more accepting of proposals that are project-specific?22:13
dkranzsdague: Both neutron and heat wanted to have more blueprints in tempest but we said no22:13
sdagueyes, I feel like doing this I'd be ok with that22:13
dkranzsdague: Yeah, we should at least be open to it22:13
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sdaguebecause we don't end up with them populating 50 lp artifacts and no one noticing :)22:14
sdagueand important part of this process is "Bring forward the proposed item to the openstack-qa meeting for summary"22:14
sdagueand I don't want us +Aing anything that misses that step22:15
dkranzsdague: Right. And there could be project subdirs in the specs area22:15
sdaguedkranz: maybe, lets try flat first22:15
dkranzsdague: k22:15
sdaguewe can always easily reorg if it's gone crazy22:15
mtreinishdkranz: I'm still not convinced a bp or this repo are the best way to track doing test tracking either22:15
cyeohso there may be some people who find it really hard to get to the irc meeting22:16
mtreinishbut we can iterate and explore22:16
cyeohare we ok with people just putting it on the agenda if that's the case?22:16
cyeoh(and not turning up)22:16
dkranzmtreinish: Yes, since real project management tools are out-of-bounds :)22:16
sdaguecyeoh: even with the rotating times?22:16
mtreinishyeah that's fine. I guess we don't have coverage for certain tz even with the rotating sched22:16
mtreinishsdague: yeah like china22:16
sdagueright that's 6am now?22:17
sdaguewell, one of the issues I really want to address is people off working on bp that aren't communicating via irc or email about them22:17
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sdaguebecause we definitely have seen people not be successful if they only communicate in gerrit22:18
sdagueand I'd like to have people be more successful22:18
mtreinishsdague: yeah I agree but if the meeting can't be attended by everyone we need some way to enforce communicate besides just the meeting22:18
sdaguesure, so alt to meeting is ML discussion22:18
dkranzmtreinish: We could insist on initial ml post22:19
sdaguewell, lets see how the first round goes22:19
mtreinishok that works22:19
mtreinishsdague: do you think we should update the readme22:19
sdaguelets start with all of us that have bp that are < high proposing up stuff22:19
mtreinishbecause it doesn't mention the ml22:19
sdaguein the next week22:19
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sdaguethen out of that set we can start to figure out what's workign and what's not22:19
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sdagueso we'll do a review next week of everything that's been proposed and comment on what seems to be working and not with the repo22:20
sdaguesound good to folks?22:20
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mtreinishworks for me22:20
sdagueafter we have that, we can communicate more the the broader community to get more folks doing it as well22:21
sdaguehopefully that will provide plenty of good examples for them to copy from22:21
sdagueok, I think that topic is done unless there are last questions22:21
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* afazekas is reading more frequently IRC than ML22:22
mtreinishok then let's move on to the bp review22:22
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mtreinishI think for time we should skip the standard high prio bp walkthrough22:23
mtreinishand just ask if anyone has any updates for open bps22:23
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mtreinishor needs feedback or attention on any bps22:23
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mtreinishI think I'll just mention that we've made a bunch of progress with unit tests this past week22:24
mtreinishwe've had some new contributions from masayukig and others22:24
sdaguequestion on the unit tests, in fixing something for the logging22:24
sdaguewe seem to be using a lot of fake objects22:24
sdagueinstead of just mock calls directly22:25
sdagueis there a reason for that?22:25
mtreinishsdague: there are a few fake objects for some common things that will be used everywhere22:25
mtreinishbut for the most part it should be more mocks and fixtures22:25
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mtreinishfor example look at the isolated_creds tests22:26
mtreinishanyway I think we'll be at >200 unit tests by the end of icehouse22:26
sdagueyeh, I would lean on trying to get rid of the fake objects if possible, mostly because it adds a level of coupling when you need to change them22:26
sdaguemtreinish: nice22:26
mtreinishconsidering we had <10 at the start22:26
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mtreinishsdague: yeah some of it was me just being lazy at first22:26
mtreinishand it being reused22:26
mtreinishwe can start to clean that up over time (like the config refactor to use the fixture)22:27
sdagueyeh, cool22:27
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sdaguehonestly, I've only really started wrapping my head around mock recently, but it's become the openstack standard, so we should use it more to make it easier for people to jump between projects22:28
sdagueall goodness22:28
mtreinishyeah I agree22:28
mtreinishok I didn't have anything else to mention about unit tests22:28
mtreinishdoes anyone else have a bp to bring up22:28
mtreinishotherwise we can move on22:28
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mtreinish#topic Neutron testing22:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron testing (Meeting topic: qa)"22:29
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mtreinishmlavalle: are you around?22:29
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mtreinishmlavalle: any update on neutron testing?22:30
mlavalleWe have continued merging api tests. Since our last meeting, another 2 patch sets have merged22:30
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mlavalleThe grand total over the past 4 weeks is 1422:30
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mlavalleThere are 3 abandondes patch sets. I contacted their authors by mail. One of them responded (he owns 2) and has given me permission to assign the patch sets to someone else22:31
mlavalleI also have 3 patch sets that only rehire one additional +2 to merge. Can you guys help?22:32
mtreinishmlavalle: sure do you have links?22:32
mlavalleyes, give me aminute22:32
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mlavalleIn summary, continuing making good progress22:33
mtreinishmlavalle: ok I'll take a look tomorrow morning22:33
mtreinishbut someone will probably beat me to it22:33
mlavallethanks :-)22:33
mlavalleThat's all I have22:34
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mtreinishok cool thanks22:34
mtreinishI guess we can move on if no one has any questions about neutron testing22:34
mtreinish#topic Heat testing22:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Heat testing (Meeting topic: qa)"22:35
mtreinishsdague: I added this to the template22:35
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mtreinishbut who should I ping about it22:35
sdaguestevebaker was the primary one code was coming from22:35
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sdagueand there he is!22:36
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sdaguelefty and all22:36
mtreinishstevebaker: hi, do you have any updates on heat testing with tempest22:36
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stevebakerI've refreshed the autoscaling test, its working locally
sdaguestevebaker: cool22:37
stevebakerbut it is waiting on firewall changes to land before it can run
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stevebakerefforts to shame other heat developers to write tests may yet yield some results ;)22:38
sdaguestevebaker: I was trying to pull apart what would be needed for an "ha" test using heat22:38
sdaguewhere should I dig in to learn enough to do that?22:38
stevebakerI hope to start writing some software-config tests once a few fixes land22:38
sdaguebasically "restart vm if it goes away", which I gather we can do from heat22:39
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stevebakersdague: the autoscaling scenario test can continue to evolve so that it scales arbitrary stacks, and is fronted by a neutron load balancer22:39
stevebakersdague: most likely as new tests22:40
stevebakeri mean new scenarios22:40
sdaguestevebaker: sounds good22:40
sdaguemaybe I'll ping you in -dev tomorrow to ask some more questions about how to help here22:40
stevebakerI'll be focusing on software config though22:40
stevebakersdague: ok, thanks22:41
mtreinishstevebaker: ok cool, is there anything else?22:41
stevebakerwe need some stack update scenarios, but it remains to be seen who will write those22:42
mtreinishstevebaker: maybe a call for help on the ML?22:42
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stevebakermtreinish: maybe. Existing developers know the tests are needed, its just a matter of resourcing it22:43
sdaguelook forward to more here. It's definitely good to have the heat job voting on everyone now22:44
stevebakeryes, it seems solid22:44
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sdagueok, next up?22:45
mtreinishok if there's nothing else to discuss let's move onto the next topic22:45
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mtreinish#topic Bugs22:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: qa)"22:45
mtreinishso we had our bug day yesterday22:45
mtreinishmaurosr: do you have any results from it22:45
maurosrso just the numbers to be clear22:46
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maurosrbugs that needed triage from 62 to 18
maurosrok 19 now (just have a new one)22:46
maurosrOpen bugs from 166 => 14622:46
maurosrTo prioritize we kept on 29  (no evolution)22:46
maurosrIn progress 51 to 57 (which is kind of result of taking triage bug into action)22:46
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maurosrI tended to move some of the bugs to Incomplete instead on invalid giving a chance to the reporter make it clearer... that is why we reduced only in 20 the open bugs22:48
sdaguesure, that sounds fair22:48
sdaguethanks for driving on this one22:48
dkranzmaurosr: Yes, thanks22:48
maurosrin one of our meeting we were discussing thwe kind of stuff that we would accept as bugs22:49
maurosrnot only traces22:49
sdagueyeh, if it's just a trace I was pretty aggressively marking as invalid22:50
sdagueas it's almost never a tempest bug22:50
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maurosrso it happens people are using tempest bugs to do rechecks, so there are lots of bugs that should at least affect other projects too that were there22:50
dkranzsdague: But don't we want to get these things into elastic recheck?22:50
maurosrthere was even a cinder unit test bug22:50
sdaguedkranz: it needs to be more than a stack trace for ER22:51
mtreinishmaurosr: heh, yeah I saw that one that cracked me up22:51
sdagueand it really shuold be assigned to the project where the problem is22:51
sdagueand delete tempest from the bug if it's not actually a tempest bug22:51
dkranzsdague: I'm fine with that rather than just marking it invalid22:51
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sdaguebecause if the ER bugs aren't actionable22:51
sdaguethen they aren't useful22:51
dkranzsdague: Let the projects mark them as invalid :)22:52
maurosrinvalid != remove tempest of the affected list?22:52
sdaguemaurosr: so honestly either is fine22:52
mtreinishmaurosr: if there is more than one project listed on the bug you can remove one from the list22:52
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maurosrright, understood what you meant22:52
sdagueyeh, I tend to remove the wrong projects22:53
sdaguebecause I find that otherwise people get confused about the bug, especially if they reopen it later22:53
sdaguealso, feel free to rewrite the summary and title to be more descriptive22:53
sdagueif the base bug is bad22:53
sdaguethat helps create clarify over time22:53
sdaguethis is really policy for anyone, not just maurosr  :)22:54
mtreinishmaurosr: ok is there anything else on bugs?22:54
sdaguebut especially bugs that we want to put into ER, I like to have good summary line22:54
maurosrnop, I will send a summary to the list later, but I guess related to the bug day it's pretty much it22:55
mtreinishlet's move on then22:55
sdague5 minutes22:55
mtreinish#topic Critical Reviews22:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"22:55
mtreinishdoes anyone have any reviews they'd like to get eyes on?22:55
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sdagueif nothing else -,n,z22:56
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sdagueI'm trying to tighten up the tempest log so it's useful22:56
sdaguewhich means dumping a lot of the noise from it22:56
afazekasFor the leak related change I need to xml clients to behave more closely to the json clients
sdaguenot complete, but that definitely cleans it up a bunch22:57
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mtreinishsdague: yeah it's definitely a step in the right direction22:57
sdagueI even killed the cli output on success in the last patch22:57
mtreinishalthough with os-log-analyzer there is too much blue right clumped together with the patch22:57
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sdaguewell we can debate colors at the next summit22:58
sdagueI could unbold info as well22:58
mtreinishI think that would probably be enough'22:58
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sdagueyeh, I can propose that tomorrow22:58
afazekasLooks like the instance validation with n-net with HARD reboot is flaky :(  , at my home desktop the test seams stable.22:59
afazekasI am looking for advises how to move forward22:59
mtreinishken1ohmichi: ^^^ that seems like it's in your court22:59
mtreinishanyway we're out of time23:00
mtreinishthanks everyone23:00
mtreinishI'll add the agenda item we couldn't get to onto next week's23:00
malini_afkmtreinish: Can you move my agenda item to next week?23:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"23:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Mar 20 23:00:25 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)23:00
openstackMinutes (text):
ken1ohmichiyes, I am seeing it, and will give a comment23:00
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