Wednesday, 2014-03-19

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loquacitieshey everyone, apac meeting starting in 5 mins in #openstack-meeting02:55
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brucerHi loquacities!02:56
loquacitiesheya brucer02:57
brucerNow why do I think pancakes when I say that...02:57
loquacitiesgee, i wonder :P02:57
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loquacitiesdo we have an slong?02:59
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loquacities#startmeeting docteam03:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 19 03:01:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)"03:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'03:01
loquacitieshi everyone03:01
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brucerHi there03:01
loquacitieswe don't seem to have slong, hopefully she'll join later :)03:01
loquacities#item Action items from the last meeting03:01
loquacities#topic Action items from the last meeting03:02
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loquacitiesforgot the right keyword :P03:02
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loquacitiesoh hi slong!03:02
loquacitiesok, there are a bunch of action items here, so let's go ...03:02
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loquacitiesnickchase talk with annegentle about a cross-project proposal for getting docs easier in03:03
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loquacitiesno idea what that's about03:03
loquacitiesnickchase to talk with annegentle about getting the blueprint approved and how to use it03:03
loquacitiesanyone know anything about that?03:03
Sam-I-Ami do03:03
Sam-I-Amthe first one is putting a proposal together for a summit talk on how to reduce the barrier to entry with docs03:04
loquacitiesoh! that sounds good :)03:04
Sam-I-Amseems even experienced people take a while to catch on to all of our craziness03:04
loquacitiesheh, yep ;)03:04
Sam-I-Amsecond... we needed to get the install guide update blueprint approved. which is done.03:04
loquacitiesshall we move on, then03:04
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loquacitiesSam-I-Am to update the work items in the blueprint03:05
loquacitiesyou're the man of the hour!03:05
Sam-I-Amyep, i figure out how to add items there03:05
slongHi ddomingo :)03:05
Sam-I-Amwell, through keys in my commit messages03:05
ddomingohi slong03:05
ddomingoand everyone03:06
loquacitieshi ddomingo :)03:06
loquacitiesSam-I-Am propose 21:00 UTC on 2014-03-19 for Google Hangout on mailing list03:06
brucerhi ddomingo:03:06
loquacitiesi think you did that?03:06
loquacitiesdid you get much response?03:06
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Sam-I-Amloquacities: i moved it to the 26th at 21:00 utc03:06
loquacitiesok, cool03:07
Sam-I-Amdue to lack of response to the first round of e-mails03:07
Sam-I-Amyou... should see it in your email03:07
* slong looks at calendar03:07
loquacitiesexcellent, thanks :)03:07
loquacitiesyeah, it's early03:07
Sam-I-Am7 am for apac, 10 pm for eu03:07
loquacitiesi'll be able to make that03:07
slongyup, am there03:07
Sam-I-Amand right smack in the middle of my day here stateside :)03:07
loquacitiesnot sure about everyone else, though03:07
brucerhour later would be good (ahem)03:08
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Sam-I-Ambrucer: eu would drop off :/03:08
loquacitiesyeah, i think it becomes a bit tricky03:08
brucer(I just might arrive snoring)03:08
loquacitiespropose talks at http://summit.openstack.org03:08
Sam-I-Amwe could do separate apac-us/eu-us meetings, but i think the point is to get all of us together at once03:08
loquacitiesit sounds to me as though we have a few proposals in now?03:09
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: +103:09
slongloquacities: is there a way to see the proposals?03:09
loquacitieson the website, i think?03:09
slongloquacities: way too easy, will go scout.03:10
loquacitiesok, on to action items from our last meeting:03:10
loquacitiesSam-I-Am to add the image elements he is using to a wiki page, as the beginnings of an image library03:10
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: again!03:11
Sam-I-Ami... did not do that.03:11
Sam-I-Amhad enough trouble making the images :/03:11
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loquacitiesheh, ok, let's add it to this meeting then so it doesn't get forgotten03:11
Sam-I-Ami think i sent a sample image to the list03:11
loquacities#action Sam-I-Am to add the image elements he is using to a wiki page, as the beginnings of an image library03:12
loquacitiesi don't remember seeing that :(03:12
Sam-I-Ami have a feeling the image library will wait until after the install guide... too much going on :/03:12
loquacitiesyeah, that's cool03:12
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loquacitiesi don't mind rolling it over for a while03:12
loquacitiesloquacities and slong to organise an APAC f2f for 9 April at Red Hat03:12
loquacitiesso, slong, i think i stuffed up on dates03:12
loquacitiesthe 9th isn't an APAC week03:12
Sam-I-Amloquacities: 80872 has the proposed images03:12
loquacitiesso it should be the 16th, or the 2nd03:13
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: thanks! i'll take a look :)03:13
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loquacitiesthe 16th is quite close to easter03:13
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slongAm fine with 16th03:14
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loquacitieseveryone else ok with the 16th?03:15
brucerI wont be here 16th03:15
ddomingo+1 to the 16th03:15
dnavalesounds good to me..03:15
brucerbut its OK if it suits majority.03:15
_Alexandra_I'm good for that :)03:15
brucerSam-I-Am: noob Q: what does 80872 has the proposed images refer to?03:16
RobinJoeHello, I'm Joe - new tech writer: I can make the meeting for April 1603:16
loquacitiesok, i'm going to call that a quorum03:16
slongRobinJoe, you're in Brisbane?03:16
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Sam-I-Ambrucer: updating the architecture chapter of the install guide... hopefully standardizing on diagram formats03:16
loquacitiesslong: yep, he's one of mine :)03:16
RobinJoeYes, Bne based : )03:16
slongloquacities: so three from your team to attend?03:17
loquacitiesslong: that's right03:17
slongJust have to count the numbers for pizza :)03:17
loquacitiescan you make the pizza happen?03:17
slongyep :)03:17
loquacitiesok, finally ...03:17
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Sam-I-Amguess i'm going to show up too03:17
loquacitiesloquacities to chase annegentle about core team changes03:17
loquacitieswhich has actually been done03:17
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loquacitiesso congrats to Sam-I-Am and slong03:18
loquacitieswho are now core03:18
loquacitiesand me :)03:18
Sam-I-Am+2, i guess03:18
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: you'll be in brisbane?03:18
slongor eating virtual pizza?03:18
brucercongrats all03:18
loquacitiesthanks brucer03:19
Sam-I-Amloquacities: i'll fly there for free pizza :)03:19
loquacitiesthat's a long way to go for pizza ;)03:19
ddomingothe pizza here is THAT good03:19
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loquacitiesok, we're done with action items03:19
loquacities#topic Operations Guide schedule with O'Reilly03:19
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Sam-I-Amsounds like a round of edits now03:20
loquacitiesyeah, it should be close, i think03:20
loquacities#topic Design Summit proposal system now open, doc slots Tues-Wed.03:21
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loquacitiesso i guess if you want to submit something, now is the time03:21
sldas in...for atlanta?03:21
loquacitiesyeah, for the design summit03:21
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loquacities#topic Installation guide updates for Icehouse03:22
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loquacitiesSam-I-Am: did you want to give an update?03:23
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sldI've done some testing for the install guide and a lot of it is solid... thinking of waiting for final release of packages for further testing though.03:23
Sam-I-Ami flattened the neutron sections03:23
Sam-I-Ammuch more manageable now03:23
slongcongrats on that one, Sam-I-Am03:24
loquacitiesthat must have been a lot of work :)03:24
Sam-I-Amnow i'm working on updating the architecture chapter to explain exactly what we expect people to use... and what services run where.03:24
Sam-I-Amyeah, about 4 hours per section03:24
loquacitiesouch ><03:24
Sam-I-Amplenty o cruft03:24
sldSam-I-Am: right on... I've seen a lot of different configurations and services split all over... funny what people try on their own. ;-)03:25
Sam-I-Amapparently there's an issue with svg-png conversion in maven which is messing my diagrams up03:25
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Sam-I-Ambug filed, awaiting a response03:25
loquacitieshem, hopefully we can work around it03:25
loquacitiesstupid autocollect :P03:25
Sam-I-Ammeanwhile, i'm starting work on the basic OS config section... more details about how to set up network interfaces, hosts files, etc.03:25
Sam-I-Amand still trying to test icehouse. milestone 3 on ubuntu works except security groups. packages on rhel are either not -3 or broken.03:26
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Sam-I-Amso... i still havent been able to build a working rhel box with icehouse and neutron/ml203:26
sldI have had luck with CentOS, but haven't tested RHEL.03:26
Sam-I-Amthis is actually scientific03:27
Sam-I-Ambut... same vintage03:27
Sam-I-Amdid you get rdo -3 packages working?03:27
slddidn't know 3 was out already.... I tested with 2.03:27
sldI can try 3 either today or tomorrow.03:27
slongSam-I-Am: was going to try 3 soon03:27
Sam-I-Ami couldnt get neutron to work with 203:27
Sam-I-Ammucho database errors03:28
slongSam-I-Am: same here with rdo 203:28
Sam-I-Ammore testers the merrier :)03:28
Sam-I-Amthings seem to change a bit between the milestones, so i've uploaded a few new patches to the guide for -303:28
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Sam-I-Amlike configuring mysql to default to utf-803:29
Sam-I-Amthats a new one03:29
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Sam-I-Amthat's all from me03:29
Sam-I-Amtrying to make some progress03:29
loquacitiesthanks Sam-I-Am :)03:30
loquacities#topic Google Hangout03:30
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loquacitiesi think something on that has gone to the mailing list?03:30
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Sam-I-Amit should have03:31
Sam-I-Amthere's a place in the wiki to add topics03:31
loquacitiesfinal topic:03:31
loquacities#topic Open discussion03:31
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loquacitiesso we'll run with an f2f on 16 april03:31
loquacitiesother than that, does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?03:32
loquacitiesSam-I-Am: anything else?03:32
Sam-I-Amlol, nope03:33
loquacitiesexcellent, thanks for coming everyone :)03:33
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"03:33
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 19 03:33:21 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)03:33
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johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI15:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 19 15:01:21 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:01
johnthetubaguyhowdy people15:01
johnthetubaguyhows things?15:01
BobBallJust me today again I think!15:01
leifzI'm lurking.15:01
BobBallWell, I've got an orange and a can of diet coke15:01
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BobBallso that's got to be classified as "good" right?15:01
johnthetubaguyany specific topics?15:02
johnthetubaguyits almost time to gather summit like thoughts15:02
BobBallCI is broken :(15:02
johnthetubaguyoh yeah15:02
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johnthetubaguy#topic CI15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:02
johnthetubaguythe CI died :( nasty new features15:02
BobBallI'm going to blame Xavier Queralt for fixing a bug in tempest15:02
johnthetubaguyso, should we look at getting my change in htere?15:03
BobBallBroke XenAPI and we urgently need John's change and mine15:03
johnthetubaguycan we please exclude that test for now?15:03
johnthetubaguywhile we get this fixed?15:03
BobBallI suppose we can now we know what's wrong15:03
BobBalllet me exclude it now... hang on...15:03
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johnthetubaguyyou have tabs in there by the way15:04
BobBallI just uploaded one without the tabs??15:04
BobBalldamn :P15:04
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BobBallNext tempest runs won't try it15:05
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BobBallI suppose I should re-run the failed jobs15:05
BobBallWhat do you think we should do there?15:05
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BobBallre-running failed jobs will push them all on the queue and slow down results for new jobs15:05
BobBalluntil the queue is drained15:06
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johnthetubaguyso… fixing it15:06
BobBallso should I re-run them and delay results for new tests?15:06
johnthetubaguyseems like its those two changes15:06
BobBallwhat's you change?15:07
johnthetubaguylets link them here15:07
BobBalloh - I linked to patch #1 of mine15:07
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BobBallthat's why you saw tabs :)15:07
BobBalljohnthetubaguy: can you update yours to say partial-bug rather than closes-bug?15:08
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johnthetubaguyerm, well it closes the bug from a nova perspective, probably just need to reword the bug15:08
BobBallI've added devstack to the list15:08
BobBallin the bug15:08
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johnthetubaguyyeah, OK, so its closes-bug then? from a nova point of view?15:09
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BobBallyes, but closes-bug assumes that it's the only part of the bug15:09
BobBallwhich it isn't15:09
BobBallwhich is why both changes need partial-bug15:10
johnthetubaguyerm… but it would be close form Nova, its independent for each project, so it leaves devstack open till it closes15:10
johnthetubaguythere isn't another nova patch, as far as we know, is what I mean15:10
BobBallOh, ok.  I thought that closes-bug be the whole bug15:10
johnthetubaguyonly on a per project, seems independent15:11
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BobBallThen can you remove your -1 and poke Matt until he agrees so we can get it in?15:11
johnthetubaguyI can try, will ask the other cores over here to take a look at least15:12
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BobBallI meant agrees to remove his -115:12
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johnthetubaguyso, we should be good, assuming that all works15:12
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BobBallWell I've already excluded the test15:13
BobBallso that should mean we're ok from that perspective15:13
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johnthetubaguytrue true15:13
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BobBallI've now re-queued all of the failed tests in the last 24 hours15:15
johnthetubaguynice, thank you15:15
johnthetubaguyany more on CI?15:15
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BobBallnah guess not15:16
johnthetubaguy#topic Juno Summit15:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Juno Summit (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:16
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johnthetubaguyanyone got things to raise this time?15:17
johnthetubaguywe should start and etherpad again...15:17
BobBallno - too early15:17
BobBalltoo many other things going on ATM - can't think about Juno!15:17
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johnthetubaguy#topic Open Discussion15:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:18
johnthetubaguyAny other issues?15:18
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johnthetubaguyany rc1 looking bugs?15:18
BobBallno, don't think so15:18
BobBallI think we're generally good ATM15:18
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johnthetubaguylikewise from what I can see at the moment15:19
johnthetubaguyare we all done then?15:19
BobBallthink so15:20
BobBallwill probably have to rebuild CI soon15:20
johnthetubaguywhy is that?15:20
BobBallI'd built it with the smallest flavor thinking "it's not doing much"15:20
BobBallbut it's run out of the 512M ram ;)15:20
BobBallheavily into swap now15:20
johnthetubaguyis it standard flavor?15:21
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BobBalldon't remember15:21
johnthetubaguysnapshot then rebuild, or resize it if its standard15:21
johnthetubaguyits standard if its 512, so just resize it15:21
BobBallseems that nodepool is using 50% of the memory(!) pretty huge15:22
BobBallI've got a script that'll rebuild it15:22
BobBallso the only thing we'd lose is queue state15:22
BobBallunless I update it to copy the DB cross rebuilds15:22
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BobBallin which case we'd just lose gerrit stream watching for 30 minutes or so15:22
johnthetubaguyyeah, but snapshot then rebuild and you don't loose the queue right?15:22
johnthetubaguyor just resize15:22
johnthetubaguyanyways, good to test your script!15:23
johnthetubaguyassuming its in a git repo somewhere15:23
BobBalldunno what I'll do - I'll figure it out.15:23
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johnthetubaguycool, any more for any more?15:23
johnthetubaguy(note resize can be quite slow)15:23
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johnthetubaguythanks bob15:24
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:24
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 19 15:24:22 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:24
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jgriffithnow that I'm in the correct channel :)16:02
jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 19 16:02:13 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:02
jgriffithagenda is here:
kmartinhi all16:02
jungleboyjHowdy all.16:02
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jgriffithLet's get to it16:02
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jgriffithIs there anybody from ProphetStor with us today?16:02
jgriffithhmmm... that's disappointing I had asked Steven to join us16:03
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jgriffithlet's come back to that topic16:03
jgriffith#topic bug-status16:03
*** openstack changes topic to "bug-status (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:03
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jgriffithWe have a couple unassigned to start with16:04
jgriffithguitarzan: you around?16:04
jgriffithI'd like to understand more of th expectations/desires on #128993116:04
jgriffithI believe we all agreed that we should force same type only on clone and create from snap16:05
jgriffithThen use retype if one wishes to change it16:05
jgriffithBut I haven't looked at the problem that guitarzan seems to have here with the None type16:05
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1289931 in cinder "Can't restore volume to a different type than the snapshot" [High,New]16:05
jgriffithDoes anybody have some detail on this?16:05
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jgriffithhmmm... ok16:06
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jgriffithseems I'm not getting anywhere on that16:06
avishayjgriffith: there were two issues in one bug16:06
avishayjgriffith: one is the DB migration, which should be fixed16:06
avishayjgriffith: the second is that clone was ignoring the requested volume type, we should outright return error if it doesn't match what we want16:07
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jgriffithavishay: right16:07
jgriffithavishay: I *thought* I submitted a patch for that last part16:08
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jgriffithI've assigned it to myself and will look at fixing the migration16:08
avishayjgriffith: you may have, i don't remember16:08
avishayjgriffith: cool16:08
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jgriffithI'm still of the opinion that keeping the type is the right behavior here16:08
jgriffithie requiring same type16:08
bswartzno disagreement here16:09
winston-di agree16:09
jgriffithOk... next thing I'd like to talk about in terms of bugs16:09
jgriffithWe're in that mode where it seems like a lot of folks submitted their code at the last minute and are now madly filing bugs16:09
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jgriffithnot cool16:09
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jgriffithThe other thing that's not cool is adding your bugs to the milestone target yourself16:10
jgriffithparticularly without notifying anybody on the core team or me :)16:10
jgriffithanyway... it's time to get picky about what we target16:10
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jgriffithalso, not being targetted doesn't mean it won't be reviewed/merged16:11
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jgriffithIt just means it's not blocking the release16:11
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jgriffithAt this point I don't see any third party driver as blocking release16:11
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jgriffithmake sense?16:11
hemnaany idea when we might cut RC1 ?16:11
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jgriffithhemna: next week16:11
jungleboyjjgriffith, Oh, I was adding some RC1 targets.  Didn't realize that could block the release.  Sorry.16:12
kmartinjgriffith: I thought only a core could assign something to a milestone16:12
jgriffithjungleboyj: yeah, anything that's listed as targetted for RC1 means RC1 is dependent on it16:12
hemnajgriffith, +1   bugs are for bugs, not code that wasn't done until the last minute.16:12
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jgriffithand thus is a "blocker"16:12
avishaymakes sense16:12
jungleboyjjgriffith, Thanks for the education.  I won't do that any more than.  :-)16:12
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jgriffithSo we really need to be focused on the core stuff at this point16:13
jgriffithand there's no shortage there16:13
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jgriffithI'm also fine with post-targetting16:13
jgriffithThe only things I see as blockers right now:16:13
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jgriffithPossibly the one we discussed regarding snapshot volume-types16:14
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avishayThe DB migration definitely16:14
jgriffithand this one: #link
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1289931 in cinder "Can't restore volume to a different type than the snapshot" [High,New]16:14
jgriffithwrong link16:14
guitarzanjgriffith: you can't duplicate it?16:14
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1294724 in cinder "c-api and c-vol emmit tons of oslo.messaging ERRORs on successful test runs" [Undecided,New]16:15
jgriffithguitarzan: honestly I haven't tried yet :(16:15
jgriffithguitarzan: but I will16:15
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jgriffithguitarzan: I just wanted to talk to you about it16:15
guitarzanjgriffith: understood16:15
jgriffithguitarzan: because I know you seemed to want the ability to cast to new types16:15
guitarzanwell, it's just a regression from grizzly16:15
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jgriffithguitarzan: but that's very troubling to do that16:15
guitarzanor rather, more strict behavior16:15
jgriffithguitarzan: yeah16:16
guitarzanI understand how you guys feel about types16:16
jgriffithguitarzan: but TBH it was a bug in Grizzly16:16
guitarzanbut you won't tie types to backends, so I'm at a loss16:16
jgriffithguitarzan: it should've never been allowed because in many config it won't work16:16
hemnahrmm the errors in that log are nova16:16
jgriffithhemna: haha16:16
jgriffithhemna: That's what I first said too... but they're not16:16
jgriffithhemna: look at c-api log16:16
jgriffithhemna: it's the oslo-messaging16:17
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jgriffithhemna: it's a bit of a train wreck16:17
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hemnaok I see those16:17
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jgriffithI started looking this morning... but frankly it's a mess16:18
jgriffithI was hoping flaper87|afk might be around to look/help since it's his work16:18
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jgriffithI hate to just revert that change but that's what I'm leaning towards if I don't figure out something better by this afternoon16:18
jgriffithThese OSLO syncs are proving to be pretty high risk16:18
jgriffithand causing strange funky behaviors16:19
hemnathat's not a good trend16:19
jgriffithhemna: nope, it's not :(16:19
thingeejgriffith: yea, oslo message has been pretty rough16:19
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jgriffithanybody else have anything on bugs?16:19
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winston-dthingee: you just fixed one of the bug it brought in16:20
jgriffithFYI I plan to remove the bulk of the driver related bugs from the milestone target16:20
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thingeewinston-d: which in fairness was just making a unit test complex.16:20
jgriffithIf you have something that's not there that you think should be (NOT 3'rd party driver related) let me know16:20
jgriffithLet's go to my next topic that I'm dieing to talk about :)16:21
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jgriffith#topic items to punt to Juno (immediate -2)16:21
*** openstack changes topic to "items to punt to Juno (immediate -2) (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:21
* avishay sets up the goal16:21
avishaypunt away16:21
jgriffithIf you see any of these "python 3" etc patches at this point -2 them right away16:22
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jgriffithThe same holds true for any more oslo syncs unless they are addressing a specific known bug that Cinder is encountering16:22
hemnajgriffith, ok16:22
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jgriffithSeem reasonable to everybody?16:22
eharneyi think so16:23
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avishayjgriffith: same goes for adding tox rules and stuff like that?16:23
jgriffithI understand there might be special cases but in general16:23
jgriffithavishay: I think so yes16:24
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jgriffithI see no value in those things16:24
winston-dyeah, anything cosmetic16:24
jgriffithHonestly we should be using the same criteria that we use for backports at this point16:24
jgriffithor at least very close to it16:24
avishaysounds good16:24
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jungleboyjMakes sense.16:25
jgriffithanybody have anything they want to add on that topic?16:25
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jungleboyjOh, I had a question.16:25
jgriffithjungleboyj: go for it16:25
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jungleboyjDo we have a way of tracking the items that we have -2'd to hold for Juno?16:26
jungleboyjSo we ca go back and clean those up?16:26
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jgriffithjungleboyj: other than the comments in the review no16:26
jgriffithjungleboyj: you can do gerrit queries on the -216:26
hemnaI don't think there is a process for that other than reading the comments really.16:26
jgriffithhemna: +116:26
eharneythe important ones should have bugs or blueprints anyway16:26
jgriffitheharney: +116:26
hemnaeharney, +116:27
jungleboyjjgriffith, Ok.  Was just checking.  I made a note in one the other day and -2'd it.16:27
jungleboyjjgriffith, Just wanted to make sure there wasn't something else I needed to do.16:27
jgriffithYeah... LP is our friend here16:27
jgriffithIt doesn't seem that people submit without a bug or bp very often any more16:27
jgriffithso we should be ok16:27
jgriffithand honestly if they care enough they'll be back16:28
eharneyin LP, next = Juno for now?16:28
jgriffitheharney: that's what I've been doing16:28
jgriffitheharney: or just leave untargetted16:28
jgriffitheharney: then when juno opens I'll start triaging them again16:28
jungleboyjI assume we are REQUIRING a bug for any patches being sent at this point.  Correct?16:28
jgriffithjungleboyj: uhhh yeah16:28
hemnaheheh yah I would hope so.16:29
jgriffithjungleboyj: That's what my whole topic was here :)16:29
jgriffithjungleboyj: read your scroll-back for more detail :)16:29
jungleboyj:-)  Well, good, we are talking the same language.16:29
jgriffithjungleboyj: hehe16:29
jungleboyjOk, it was a silly question.  Just stating it.16:29
jgriffithok... shall we move on to jungleboyj 's topic on CI?16:29
jgriffithjungleboyj: no silly questions16:29
jgriffithjungleboyj: I mean "There are No"16:29
* jungleboyj laughs16:30
jgriffithBetter to ask and make sure we're all on the same page than risk confusion16:30
jungleboyjI found that out last week.  ;-)16:30
jgriffithOk... moving on16:30
kmartinjgriffith: thingee any updates minimum driver requirements for juno? #link managed/unmanage? retype?16:30
jgriffith#topic CI for cinder cert16:30
*** openstack changes topic to "CI for cinder cert (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:30
jungleboyjOk, so, I have been getting some questions on this topic from my driver developers here.16:31
jungleboyjI don't know if this is a huge thing to discuss right now or something to discuss at the Summit.16:31
jgriffithkmartin: we usually give one release to catch up16:31
jgriffithkmartin: and I'm still trying to kill that whole thing16:32
thingeekmartin: those aren't core api features, so no.16:32
jgriffithkmartin: and have things implcit based on tempest tests16:32
avishayyea i would put either for required, ever16:32
jungleboyjJust wondering how serious we are about doing CI for the driers in Juno and if so, then we need to start putting some definition around the expectations for how it will work.16:32
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hemnajungleboyj, thingee had a patch that tried to explain it all16:33
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jgriffithhemna: that's diff16:33
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hemnabut I think we are holding off on it for Juno to start no?16:33
jgriffithI think jungleboyj is referring to the 3'rd party gating stuff16:33
avishaythere was the wiki page16:33
jgriffithjungleboyj: no?16:33
jungleboyjhemna, Yeah, I know what youa re talking about.  I am talking about having the 3rd party tests.16:33
thingeehemna: I gave up on that patch. I'm fine with it being in the wiki.16:33
jungleboyjRight, the automatic run of the certifiation.16:33
hemnagah ok.16:33
hemnaI'm not sure anyone reads the wiki, but ok.16:34
jungleboyjhemna, :-)  Even scarier issue.16:34
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jgriffithI haven't had much input on making this mandatory16:34
* jungleboyj uses the wiki. :-)16:34
jgriffithHoping to see peer pressure take over here and make people just want to opt in16:34
hemnaso making a jenkins slave available for cinder driver testing against real h/w ?16:35
jgriffithOk... I obviously don't know what jungleboyj and hemna are talkign about :)16:35
jgriffithhemna: yes16:35
hemnaheh good luck with that16:35
jgriffithhemna: ok :)16:35
hemnaI seriously doubt that HP would allow that for us. :(16:35
jgriffithso that's now what we're talkign about16:35
avishayhemna: why?16:35
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avishaynova does it16:35
* avishay ducks16:35
bswartz^ NetApp is going to do this16:35
jgriffithjungleboyj: maybe you could clarify what your point was here?16:36
hemnaI'd love to do it16:36
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jgriffithLet's table that for now16:36
hemnabut that opens up a whole can of IT/security worms that I have zero control over.16:36
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jungleboyjOk.  The main concerns here were what is the timeframe.  How reliable do the 3rd party servers have to be to run the tests.  What does it mean if the patch fails on a 3rd party test?16:36
jungleboyjThose sorts of things.16:36
bswartzhemna: run it in the cloud16:36
jgriffithhemna: it's a push, not a pull16:36
jgriffithjungleboyj: wait... back up16:36
hemnaI was actually looking at setting this up internally16:36
jgriffithjungleboyj: so you are talking about the link I just sent?  Third party CI environment?16:36
hemnaagainst our own internal CI system we have in place16:37
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hemnabecause even internally we don't have our arrays available except in my own lab16:37
jgriffithjungleboyj: ???16:37
jungleboyjjgriffith, Yes.16:37
bswartzjungleboyj: I think the 3rd party tests woudl be non-voting16:37
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jgriffithSo here's my take on that16:37
bswartzso if they're flaky it's not the end of the world16:37
jgriffithI love the idea16:37
jungleboyjjgriffith, Great.16:37
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jgriffithI tihnk it's great if everyone does it16:37
jungleboyjbswartz, That would be good.16:37
jgriffithI'd like to talk about it at the summit16:38
hemnajgriffith, +116:38
jgriffithI am not interested in making it mandatory today16:38
jungleboyjjgriffith, +216:38
jgriffithbut I think it's going to get to that point16:38
jungleboyjjgriffith, Talking K release maybe, or L?16:38
jgriffithHonestly I have other ideas like "removing 3'rd party drivers from cinder/trunk" altogether16:38
hemnaI can at least start the discussion internally here and see if we can do it.16:38
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jungleboyjhemna, That is why I brought it up.16:39
guitarzanthat's a very interesting idea16:39
jgriffithguitarzan: I've tried it before and failed miserably16:39
jungleboyjIBM is willing to investigate it and do it but we need to start planning money/hardware.16:39
avishayjgriffith: not a bad idea16:39
jungleboyjWe have done it for DB2.16:39
jungleboyjjgriffith, How would they be removed?16:39
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hemnajungleboyj, same here.  We'd have to dedicate a few servers and arrays in order to do it.16:39
jgriffithjungleboyj: so they'd become external libs16:40
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jungleboyjjgriffith, Interesting.16:40
jgriffithjungleboyj: and we'd have to have some pretty strict interface compat checking in the code16:40
avishayjungleboyj: there is a setup for doing it with Nova for PowerKVM16:40
avishayjungleboyj: cd cinder/volume; rm -rf drivers; git commit -a :)16:40
hemnaoh man, I think that opens up a big can of worms.16:40
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jungleboyjavishay, :-p16:41
avishaythis was brought up for grizzly too, and voted down16:41
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jgriffithhemna: I'd argue that if you look at the bulk of commits this cycle it would actually be less a can of worms :)16:41
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jgriffithavishay: yeah... I'm certain it'll be squashed16:41
guitarzanthere's not a lot of difference in being out of tree and the current situation16:41
jgriffithanyway... it's not really relevant right now16:41
hemnawell I think it opens up cinder to even more driver feature fragmentation.16:41
avishaybut yea, it's a huge waste of time for core members16:41
jgriffithguitarzan: except I don't have to review your code and triage your bugs :)16:42
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guitarzanjgriffith: right, that's both good and bad16:42
jgriffithguitarzan: indeed16:42
jgriffithdouble-edged sword16:42
guitarzanyou're probably right that folks will balk at it16:42
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jungleboyjjgriffith, So, the net sounds like:  This isn't going to be required for Juno, we are going to start talking about it and we will discuss it further at the Summit to get started.16:42
jgriffithguitarzan: I'm sure they will... but I'm going to propose we're more strict on driver churn16:42
guitarzanjgriffith: or go the opposite way and say "buyer beware"16:43
jgriffithjungleboyj: don't know which topic you're on16:43
jgriffithguitarzan: yeah16:43
guitarzanci for 3rd party is definitely not required16:43
jungleboyjjgriffith, Sorry, for the CI topic.16:43
jgriffithguitarzan: it's not required right now on16:43
jungleboyjjgriffith, /3rd party test.16:43
thingeejgriffith: if we can setup a google doc or something on the communication. I would like to take our approach like we did with driver requirements and reach out to maintainers very early. like now16:43
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avishayi don't think many people would be interested in a storage product with a big "buyer beware" sticker on it16:43
jgriffiththingee: not sure what you have in mind?16:44
jgriffiththingee: I mean, sure...16:44
guitarzanavishay: then that vendor better make sure it works16:44
jgriffiththingee: any communication is good and the earlier the better16:44
thingeeoh *not* required in juno16:44
jgriffithjust not sure which topic you're referring to16:44
jgriffithI'm with ya now16:44
jgriffithSo I think we should sort this after Icehouse gets closed up16:45
avishayguitarzan: but it's still a part of cinder - we need CI for all drivers IMO to guarantee as much as possible that cinder works - all of it - including drivers16:45
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jgriffithavishay: I tend to agree with you16:45
guitarzanavishay: I think that's a pipe dream, but it'd be nice16:45
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jgriffithguitarzan: it may be, but honestly if you can't do it then you're out of tree IMHO16:45
avishayguitarzan: i agree, but who knows16:45
hemnaI dunno, I think there is a benefit to the community when we review driver code.16:45
jungleboyjavishay, I agree. Just need to get the company planning ahead appropriately and not panicking16:45
jgriffithbut again, I don't think we need or should debate it today16:45
guitarzannova is going that way, but they only have a small handful of drivers16:45
avishayjungleboyj: yup16:45
eharneyhemna: i agree16:45
thingeeIn general, we have found with people running the cert tests that it did reveal bugs. If anything, I'm really proud of some maintainers for making things more stable on their end.16:46
hemnaand it helps stabilize cinder in general.16:46
jgriffithhemna: that's a different topic again :)16:46
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jungleboyjthingee, +216:46
jgriffithhemna: but I would argue that your conclusion is false16:46
hemnaI'm not afraid of driver 'churn' or people working on drivers.16:46
jgriffithOk... we've got multiple topics being discussed at once16:46
jgriffithand we're rat-holing a bit16:46
thingee13 mins16:47
thingeeno pressure16:47
avishayOK, let's leave it for a design summit topic16:47
hemnaheh ok16:47
jgriffithavishay: +116:47
jungleboyjavishay, +216:47
* eharney would also like more clarification later about the churn issue16:47
hemnaeharney, +116:47
jgriffithanybody from prophetstor yet?16:47
avishayWe still have profitstor on the agenda16:47
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* jungleboyj is very likely to be there.16:47
thingeeavishay: heh profit16:47
jgriffithhaha... oops16:47
jungleboyjhe he16:47
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avishaythingee: that's what i would call it16:47
hemnaI guess no profits today.16:48
jgriffith#topic prophetstor driver16:48
*** openstack changes topic to "prophetstor driver (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:48
jungleboyjThanks all for that discussion by the way!16:48
jgriffithSo here's the background16:48
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jgriffiththey submitted a bp way way back16:48
jgriffithbut no activity16:48
jgriffiththey did provide updates to Thierry that they were working it16:48
jgriffithbut didn't get anything posted or communicate with me until right before FFE16:49
hemnawhen was the bp targeted I1, I2, I3 ?16:49
jgriffithI initially told them I'm fine with the base volume-driver16:49
jgriffithhemna: all fo the above16:49
jgriffithhemna: landed at I316:49
jgriffithThe problem I have is they've been unresponsive16:49
kmartindoes it pass the driver cert test?16:49
jgriffithI sent them an email last week-end asking them to attend this meeting to discuss why they should get an exception for Icehouse16:50
hemnajgriffith, well that says everything right there then doesn't it?16:50
thingeeand it's obviously not that important if no rep is present in this meeting today16:50
hemna-2 -> Juno16:50
guitarzanI think kmartin has the better point16:50
guitarzanthis shouldn't be about ego imo16:50
avishayi see cert test results in the commit message16:50
avishaybut they fail :(16:50
guitarzanrats, but then I can't get them to all pass on lvm ;)16:51
kmartinall the other drivers went though the test, they should as well.16:51
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hemnakmartin, +116:51
jungleboyjSounds like it should move to Juno.16:51
jgriffithI just wanted to make sure we were all on the same page16:51
jgriffithJuno it is16:51
jgriffithThat's all I have16:51
jungleboyjI think I supported thingee s comment on that in the review.  :-)16:51
jgriffith#topic open-discussion16:51
*** openstack changes topic to "open-discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:51
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kmartinagreed, juno or get the cert test to pass within the next day or so16:52
thingeejgriffith: I think you've been generous enough to bring it up. I think it's fine to punt.16:52
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avishaythingee: +116:52
jgriffithcool... I just want to make sure I'm being fair16:52
hemnathingee, +116:52
jgriffithand that I consult the whole team16:52
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* thingee is that guy16:52
jungleboyj:-)  Is it a democracy?16:52
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guitarzanjungleboyj: no, it's an echo chamber :)16:52
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hemnachamber, chamber, chamber....16:53
* jungleboyj now knows to pay off thingee instead of jgriffith 16:53
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jungleboyjguitarzan, Better than a gas chamber.16:53
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jgriffithOk... seems like we're good16:54
jgriffithHollar if you have questions16:54
jungleboyjjgriffith, +1  Good meeting!16:54
jgriffithjungleboyj: thanks16:54
jgriffiththanks everyone!16:54
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:54
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 19 16:54:30 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:54
openstackMinutes (text):
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avishaybye all!16:54
jgriffithkmartin: it's been a while since I "end meeting"16:54
jgriffithavishay: lates16:54
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hartsocksmeeting in here in a couple minutes …16:58
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hartsocks#startmeeting vmwareapi17:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 19 17:00:11 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:00
hartsocksgreetings stackers!17:00
hartsocksWho's around?17:00
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hartsocksbrowne: and me?17:01
hartsocksthat's it?17:01
browneapparently just us17:01
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hartsocksAh, folks must be heads down.17:01
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arosen1hi :)17:02
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garykwhat a pleasant suprise :)17:03
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tjoneshartsocks: i know can we spend some time on #link
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tjoness/i know//17:04
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hartsockstjones: go for it :-)17:04
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tjonesok we need to have our bugs merged by monday 12pm UTC.  we have 5 bugs on here and i know we are making progress - but i just want to reiterate (again) that the deadline is monday17:05
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tjoneshartsocks: im done17:05
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hartsocks(That was short)17:06
tjonesim a person of few words17:06
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garyki think that the gate is broken. patches approved from yesterday are failing17:06
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hartsocksWell, between a broken gate and the icehouse-rc1 list I don't think we should divide our focus right now.17:08
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hartsocksWe *could* talk about Juno-1 blueprints but I'd rather idle on that for 7 days and let the next deadline get sewn up.17:08
hartsocksAny objections?17:08
hartsocks(I'm asking if anyone has a problem with ending the meeting *super* early.)17:09
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tjonesnot me17:09
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garykshould we talk about icehouse testing?17:11
hartsocksEveryone should be working off this list: … next week we can chat about Juno blueprints.17:11
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garykwe should try and get as much coverage as possible before releasing the version17:11
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hartsocks#topic open discussion17:11
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:11
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hartsocksgaryk: sorry. lag.17:11
garyknp, just want to try and make sure that we are testing now.17:12
tjonesim not sure ryan and srreeram are on today17:12
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hartsocksso maybe we can invite them in for next time?17:13
garyki think that we should also lend a hand. the more stuff we can iron out and harden now the better17:13
tjoneswe can organize another break-a-thon17:13
garykyeah, that would be a great idea17:13
tjonesi'd like it better organized that last time17:13
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tjonessince i organized it i can say that17:14
hartsockscan we open this to the public or is this a "vmware club members only" thing still?17:14
garykit should most certainly be public17:14
tjonesit can be anyone17:14
tjonesin fact should be17:14
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tjonesideas on how to organize better?17:15
garyki think a wiki on openstack - maybe we can try and list tests cases17:16
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hartsocksWell, I don't know if you want to go to the ML or just announce links in here or #openstack-nova17:16
garykthe fedora examples were great. basically it gave people a list of things to do.17:16
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tjonesyes - that is what i was thinkging17:16
tjonesgaryk: can you find that link again?17:17
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browneso should be on the RC1 list since we talked about backporting to havana17:17
browneok, who should mark it?17:17
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1289627 in nova "VMware NoPermission faults do not log what permission was missing" [Low,Fix committed]17:17
tjonesthey will accept things not in rc1 until monday17:18
tjoneswe just need to get core reviewers to take a look (assumingit is ready)17:18
tjonesthanks garyk - this is great17:19
garykbrowne: in general low bugs are not backported to the stable versions.17:19
tjonesgaryk: this is a real debuggability thing17:19
garykbrowne: when it is approved we can do the backport and try and justify why it is valuable17:19
tjoneswould have saved us 8 hours at a customer site last week17:19
garyktjones: agreed, but we just need to justify to the reviewers of the stable branch17:19
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brownetjones: could use some reviews first17:19
tjonesgaryk: ok ;-)17:19
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tjonesso i can take a stab at putting the wiki together for test day - but i'll need other peoples input too17:20
garyktjones: i'll be happy to help out17:20
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tjonesthanks garyk - and we won't do it on a friday17:21
tjoneswhich for some reason is always my 1st inclination17:21
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brownefor the wiki, might be good to allow people to choose which area they will focus on.  that way everyone is not testing the same thing17:21
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tjoneswe have cinder, glance, and nova.  not everyone is able to test neutron…  arosen1 can you help with info for people who can test neutron?17:22
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arosen1tjones:  sure if there are questions.17:23
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browneeven within nova, you might want someone to focus on image cache, volume attach,etc17:23
tjonesarosen1: i mean filling out a section in the wiki on testing neutron17:23
tjonesbrowne: yes absolutely17:23
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arosen1tjones: I'll take a look. can you link me.17:24
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tjonesi have started the wiki with just name/email of people who can help with perparing it.  Im assuming there are folks here that are not from vmware (hoping)17:25
tjonesif you can help - please add your irc, email, and area you can help with17:25
hartsockscool. I look forward to seeing that happen.17:26
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brownei'll definitely try to help where i can17:26
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hartsockstjones: Maybe hit up the ML too since some people actually pay attention to those things apparently.17:27
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tjoneshartsocks: will do17:27
hartsocksOkay. So, anything else?17:28
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 19 17:29:14 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:29
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hartsockswoo! first time ending early *ever*17:31
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SumitNaiksatamno FWaaS meeting today18:00
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notmynameswift team meeting time18:59
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notmyname#startmeeting swift19:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 19 19:00:05 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'19:00
notmynamewho's here for the swift meeting?19:00
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cschwede_here :)19:00
* creiht enters triumpantly from the north19:00
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* creiht also can't spell19:01
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notmynamecreiht: figuratively or are you not in San Antonio right now?19:01
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notmyname('cause SA is south of just about everyone else here)19:02
creihtwas just thinking we should have meetings in a MUD :)19:02
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notmynameit's dark and you're likely to be eaten by a grue19:02
creihtnotmyname: that's IF, not a MUD :)19:02
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notmynamenot a ton on the agenda this week, so maybe short (?)19:03
notmyname#topic storage policies19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "storage policies (Meeting topic: swift)"19:03
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notmynamefirst up, a status update on storage policies19:04
notmynamelot's of people have been working on it19:04
notmynamegreat working being done19:04
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notmynamebut not done yet19:04
notmynameand not really any way to safely get it into master with enough testing/docs/etc before Icehouse19:04
notmynameso here's what that means:19:05
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notmynameIcehouse will be Swift 1.13.1 or 1.14.0 and not include the functionality currently on the feature/ec branch19:05
notmynameand we'll cut that later this month, probably. (maybe first week of April)19:05
notmynameand for storage policies, here's the plan to get it on master:19:06
notmynametake the functionality that's been written and refactor it into more logical commits and propose them to master19:06
* clayg hopes the second step is ???19:06
notmynamethis should give us 8-10 patches or so that can be reviewed sanely and so everyone can see what's happening there19:07
torgomaticlol @ clayg19:07
notmynameand those will land after the Swift tag point19:07
* clayg notes torgomatic did NOT l*OL* for the record19:07
* clayg hopes step 3 is profit19:08
notmynametorgomatic is currently taking the lead on refactoring the git history for that work19:08
notmynameclayg: then we land it all on amster and profit!19:08
creihtlol on the inside19:08
notmynameportante: brussels19:08
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notmynameany questions on what's happening with storage policies? I'll be putting that into (probably long) prose and sending it to the openstack-dev mailing list later this week19:09
claygdoes anyone have any idea how we should do the reviews?  Or basically the same plan as normal?19:09
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creihtnotmyname: I think that is a good call19:09
creihtI know a tough decision19:09
claygI think some are going to be sorta smallish and trival, others will probably require some thought if you don't know much about sp or the final end state19:10
notmynameindeed :-)19:10
portanteI'd like to see us consider code coverage in the reviews in general19:10
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portanteand treat storage policies as no different19:10
notmynamecreiht: it's really the only way to be good citizens to the rest of the contributing community and the user base19:10
cschwede_portante: you mean there are some tests missing in sp?19:11
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portantewe also want to clearly document up front what all the patches are that make up storage policies so that mid-stream of patches landing we folks know the tree is functional, but not feature complete for sp19:11
claygcschwede_: I think func test coverage of multiple policies is light19:11
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claygcschwede_: otoh you could swift your default policy to 1 and now functests coverage for storage policies is AWESOME19:12
portantecschwede_: I am not sure, but would like to think we can mitigate the impact of code changes by raising the bar on coverage, both for unit tests and the functional tesse19:12
cschwede_clayg: nice way to increase coverage ;-)19:12
claygyay moar tests!19:12
cschwede_portante: +1!19:13
* torgomatic is all for more testing19:13
notmynameportante: yup. and that's a more general thing that I'd like to see us all focus more on for the rest of the year (regardless of storage policies)19:13
* clayg was sorta under the impression we kinda had ok coverage as far as opensource/stack projects go19:13
portantewe do, but I think dfg's concerns about code churn can be mitigate in part by raising that bar further19:13
creihtclayg: we do, but we also have some pretty important gaps19:14
notmynameclayg: so in answer to your question, I think these are "normal" reviews, but a few key ones should get some extra love beyond a standard 2 +219:14
creihtlike in the proxy server19:14
* creiht just re-discovered today19:14
notmynamecreiht: you're fixing that now, right?19:14
claygi'm not entirely sure, he went on to say that he didn't think some of the issues gatekeeper caused for sos and cdn could really have been caught without their targeted integration testing19:14
creihtfixing some19:14
glangewe need to start +3ing some reviews19:14
zaitcevfailing that 3x+219:15
claygI think these meetings could help highlight the reviews that should have more eyes - I think it's easier to say "lets way for core XXX to look at this before we merge" if it hasn't been up for weeks already with some other core devoting a bunch of time reviewing it19:16
claygwhere weeks ~= months19:16
* creiht gives glange the evil eye19:16
notmynameclayg: do you have some in mind that we should bring up later in the meeting?19:17
* clayg gives glange a warm smile19:17
* portante feels the love spreading19:17
notmynamefor now, are there any more questions about what's going on with storage policies?19:17
claygnotmyname: no not atm - but the ec branch in general is a good point - please start studying up folks - the merge train is COMING!  :P19:17
notmynamechoo choo!19:17
zaitcevis this the good time to bring up 4771319:18
zaitcevWe had a hilarious occurence, if nobody noticed19:18
cschwede_zaitcev: just noticed after you talked about it...19:18
glangeportante's uuid middleware name change?19:18
notmynamezaitcev: only 177 days old!19:18
zaitcevclayg posted a fix 8110419:18
zaitcevwhich is a code fix for a bug which was fixed ini 47713 months ago19:18
portanteglange: and here I thought nobody noticed19:18
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zaitcevlike really exactly the same code change19:19
pelusesorry I'm late... here :)19:19
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claygzaitcev: well the other thing there I noted was that I had to dig around in three different files to piece together the fix which the other patch isolated into a single function19:19
clayger... emthod19:19
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notmyname#topic patch 47713 -- "Pluggable Back Ends"19:19
*** openstack changes topic to "patch 47713 -- "Pluggable Back Ends" (Meeting topic: swift)"19:19
notmynameseems we've moved on :-)19:19
claygnotmyname: nice19:20
zaitcevI took Clay's new test from 81104 and applied to 47713, and it worked19:20
claygzaitcev: did you know you fixed it when you did?  opening bugs for some of those and attaching them to review couldn't hurt19:20
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claygzaitcev: I've recently been digging through some of the container/backend -> common/db relations working on change sam has going into sp - and I've found I don't have any good intution for which methods are on a broker are defined in common/db or type/backend19:22
zaitcevclayg: I did not know it was real, e.g. showing in the field. However, since PBE involves all this deep refactoring, a lot of oddities floated up, including that one. Apparently we have a ton of strange cruft and I went and tried to prove some general statements about what code does19:22
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portanteclayg: zaitcev's changes cap that off, I thought19:22
claygzaitcev: I saw you had common/db flesh out the interface with some NotImplementedErrors - which I think could help19:23
portantewhat is in master is really mid-stream19:23
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torgomaticclayg: the only hard line I've had is that all SQL statements go in the backend19:23
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zaitcevtorgomatic: db_file too19:23
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torgomaticzaitcev: noted19:24
claygportante: I will probably need to have something like the call-tree you did for diskfile - maybe if I can bring up the docs on PBE19:24
portantetorgomatic, clayg: from the gluster work, having the server API code call simple methods on the objects, like what zaitcev has in account and container server cleans things up quite a bit19:24
zaitcevbecause if you have, just for example, GlusterFS with library implementation, it talks to volume servers through a little library. so there's literally no db_file that can be given to open().19:24
torgomaticI haven't needed to reference db_file yet in what I'm doing19:24
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portanteto me, it makes it so that you can do stuff like, in-memory backend for account and container server to isolote the API handling code19:25
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zaitcevWe want to give sysadmin a view into what breaks, which includes backend-specific file, which is why I added __str__ method. For Gluster it would be "host://volume/dirdirdir" something, and 100% compatible db_file for legacy.19:26
portantethere are tendrils of the response handling seeping down into the backend code which gets cleaned up (last I looked)19:26
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claygI'm more or less on board with the idea, and the patch has come along way (the in-memory example is neat) - but I still struggle with reviewing it19:27
notmynameclayg: +119:27
zaitcevokay, anyway. I think about splitting 47713 into pieces and feed them piece by piece. Each given piece will make less sense by itself, but they'll be easier to review. I'll make sure each is somewhat self-contained and passes tests.19:27
portanteagreed, I do too19:27
notmynameportante: is zaitcev's suggestion good based on your DiskFile experience?19:28
peluseseems like a good idea to me19:28
portanteI don't know what to think about large patches19:28
portantesometimes they need a wholistic review19:28
zaitcevnotmyname: it's the opposite to portante's experience because we reviewed DiskFile in person at hackathon19:29
portantesometimes they need spoon feeding19:29
notmynamewith big patches like this I'm never sure if "all at once for the whole picture" or "small pieces one at a time" is better19:29
pelusewell, I think it depends on how carvable the patch is (if thats a word)19:29
notmynameportante: peluse: clayg: creiht: what would you prefer to see?19:29
portanteI think what might help here is unit test coverage before and after the change on those modules is really high, and functional test coverage can shown to be hight19:30
notmynameportante: back to the "more testing" theme, eh?19:30
portanteI would rather take the pain of reviewing the whole patch19:30
peluseif zaitcev can make a logcal series of patches with a high level design flow that would be by preference19:30
claygwell small chagnes are great when they make sense on their own - sometimes it takes awhile to find the small pieices though - I think DiskFile was making progress with small changes and the last mile ended up coming in sorta biggish19:30
zaitcevI don't want to rely on in-person review. What if something does not come together, like I have a flat tire in Raton on my way to Colorado.19:30
cschwede_smaller patches are nice as long as splitting up a big patch doesn't hide the overall goal19:30
pelusewe can send a taxi for you :)19:31
notmynamezaitcev: I've done that before :-(19:31
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portantezaitcev: e-rated tires might hlpe19:31
pelusecschwede_:  that's why added the 'along with a high level design flow' to my comment...19:31
notmynameok, how's this:19:31
notmynameput together the call flow for PBE (before and after)19:31
claygI think some context would help me a lot, like a highbandwidth overview of the patch - there's are big piecies, this is how they fit together19:32
cschwede_peluse: yep!19:32
notmynamecompare before/after testing19:32
zaitcevnotmyname: noted19:32
claygif I can see in my head - yeah that makes sense, I want it to work like that - then I can review the patch and decide if does what I think it should19:32
pelusezaitcev:  and as I reviewed I struggled a bit to understand what problem(s) you were trying to solve.  Some were clears, others not so much so some info there would be great too19:32
notmynameand, since it's pretty obvious that the one-big-patch hasn't worked for 6 months for this one, break it up into discrete chunks19:32
notmynamezaitcev: but it seems like an overview of the goals and methods would help a lot for everyone. can you make that?19:33
notmynamezaitcev: (not necessarily on your own, if others can help)19:33
zaitcevnotmyname: what form should it take? e-mail to openstack-dev, or in-changelog overview?19:34
portanteI can help with that, let's do that right after the meeting if that is okay19:34
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peluseI like the in changelog overview19:34
notmynamezaitcev: portante: a ML post wouldn't impact people who already look at the changeset. just keep it there, IMO19:34
notmynameie no extra eyes from a ML post19:34
portantethere being gerrit?19:35
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pelusesorry for my choppy attendance today, have to run... ttl19:35
notmynamezaitcev: portante: yes, referenced in gerrit, if not in the commit message or in the patch itself19:35
notmynamesound workable for everyone?19:36
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notmynameawesome. thanks zaitcev and portante19:36
notmyname#topic swift319:36
*** openstack changes topic to "swift3 (Meeting topic: swift)"19:36
notmynamechmouel: zaitcev: you want swift3 back in tree?19:36
portanteis that the s3 mapper?19:37
zaitcevnotmyname: I would prefer it, although I have an ulterior motive: I do not like packaging non-tagged versions and Tomo didn't tag since 1.719:37
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notmynameso, my understanding is that the openstack-tc decision from a while back still stands. no non-openstack APIs should be included in the openstack projects19:38
claygnotmyname: I would have swore we like *had* to take it out because of either a) some openstack foundation promoting the openatck api perception thing or b) some aws s3 clone questionable leagl thing?19:38
zaitcevhe's not a bad maintainer and responds to pull requests, but I have a feeling it's not his favourite project19:38
zaitcevoooh, sorry. I completely forgot19:38
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notmynamewhich was the reason given for excluding it, although it may have a little to do with us doing some tree pruning at the same time19:39
cschwede_i think one idea is to move it to stackforge:
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notmynamealso, at the same time there was the CDMI API proposed patch. same decision killed both wrt being in swift's tree19:39
claygyeah!  stackforge!  tomo said he'd go for that but it didn't happen - can't we just fork - it's no bad blood or anything19:39
notmynamecschwede_: as long as that doesn't mean adding on the openstack dependency party, that might be a good idea19:39
torgomaticI have a hard time testing that sort of stuff19:40
cschwede_what about a common place for additional middlewares for swift on stackforge? ie swift3, cdmi, whatelse (if their authors are ok with that)19:40
zaitcevlike ceph back-end19:40
cschwede_zaitcev: :)19:40
torgomaticnot only do I need a SAIO, I need to take out my credit card and go sign up for S3, and then tell my wife WTF this recurring 18-cent charge is when I forget to delete some test data19:40
cschwede_i think for ceph-backend the idea is already to put it on stackforge19:41
notmynamecschwede_: which generalized is the concept of a "contrib"19:41
notmynametorgomatic: that's a real concern. I suppose you could just deploy eucalyptus ;-)19:41
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cschwede_torgomatic: i think there is a free contingent on s3?19:42
notmynamecschwede_: what "cost" does stackforge incur?19:42
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notmynamecschwede_: no, you'll still have cc registered, and probably BW charges for testing19:42
torgomaticcschwede_: I thought that was only EC2 with the little free tier, not S319:42
torgomaticI could be wrong though19:42
cschwede_torgomatic: at least they stopped sending me 18 cent bills ...19:43
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* torgomatic hasn't worked with Amazon's stuff in a couple years19:43
notmynameso I don't think it's appropriate to include it back into swift's source tree. stackforge could be interesting. basically, how do we keep good ecosystem repos alive19:43
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cschwede_notmyname: regarding stackforge: afaik it's like a "regular" openstack project, ie you have core reviewers and everything else19:43
gvernikif i am not mistaken, it's not legal to expose S3's legal to implement it to access S3, but not implement it and expose it as an API of Swift...19:43
cschwede_gvernik: yeah, that could make some trouble19:44
notmynamegvernik: we're not adding it back to the swift tree (or getting into legal questions/distractions for the tech side of things)19:44
notmynamecschwede_: ok. that's full of good and bad :-)19:45
notmyname#topic open discussion19:45
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)"19:45
notmynamewhat else is on your mind?19:45
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notmynameother patches?19:45
notmynameother questions?19:45
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torgomaticcross-account copy!19:46
zaitcevWhat are we going to do there and why it's important to get budget to travel there.19:46
notmynamezaitcev: ok, I was waiting for a bit to make that public. but I'll talk about it now :-)19:46
zaitcevAlso, why is it after Atlanta. The HK one was before HK, so this is Juno cycle hackathon, right?19:46
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notmynameso we had a hackathon last november in austin. it was great19:47
notmynamethere's been interest in doing another one19:47
notmynameso it's something that's been scheduled for June in the Denver/Longmont CO area19:47
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notmynameWe've sent invites to the core devs, and I'll open the registration publicly when the core team has a chance to register if they are going (so that we don't have a rush). space is limited, like in austin19:48
notmynamewhy june?19:48
notmynamebecause april and may are very busy and march is too soon for logistics19:49
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notmynameapril == openstack release and red hat summit (which many of us are involved with). may == atlanta summit19:49
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notmynameso that's the info, and more will be shared in the next 2/3 weeks19:50
notmynameoh, this one is sponsored by Intel. thanks peluse19:50
zaitcevSo, we're going to focus on EC/SP, right?19:50
notmynameI think we'll focus on EC, but SP should be pretty much done, I think.19:51
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torgomaticoh man I hope so19:51
zaitcevAny specific accomplishment we can do, like reviews? I mean how do I prepare - just read the theory and code for EC?19:51
* torgomatic is tired19:51
notmynamethere will also be other topics too. I hope there will be a lot around performance, testing, and efficiency improvements actually19:51
* peluse just popped back in for a few19:51
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pelusezaitcev:  keving has some good EC general info out there.  I'll post a link19:52
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notmynamezaitcev: think of it like the openstack summit, but with no power-point and no "what is swift?" discussions.19:52
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pelusethis is for the actual python EC library but has good general info also and links to other papers.  We'll also be posting some flows/diagrams on the IO path and recontructor over the coming weeks19:53
notmynamejust like last time in austin. some coding, lot's of reviews19:53
notmynamezaitcev: let's talk more, if necessary, after this meeting19:53
notmynametorgomatic: did you want to discuss cross-account copy?19:54
zaitcevnotmyname: thanks, I got it19:54
notmynamezaitcev: cool. let me know if you have more questions19:54
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torgomaticwell, I think cross-account copy is looking pretty good, and it's something I want for a project I have19:55
torgomaticI'd like to get other eyes on it so that it makes it into the next release19:55
creihtyeah that would be nice to see19:55
creihtdid the profiling middleware make it in?19:55
cschwede_#link cross-account copy:
notmynamenot yet19:56
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notmynamecschwede_: thanks19:56
creihtit would be nice to see that in19:56
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notmynamefor that patch, gholt, chmouel, and portante have all commented on it19:57
notmynameI'm hoping one of you can take another look19:57
notmynamecreiht: agreed on that one too19:59
notmyname...and we're out of time this week (saved by the bell)19:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:59
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 19 19:59:23 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:59
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openstackMinutes (text):
notmynamethanks for coming19:59
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Daisy_Hello, who's there for I18n meeting?23:59

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