Wednesday, 2014-03-26

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* annegentle waves14:03
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annegentlesorry lost track of the time!14:03
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annegentleis it DocTeamMeeting I use?14:03
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annegentlenope, DocTeam14:03
annegentle#startmeeting #DocTeam14:03
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openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 26 14:03:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: #DocTeam)"14:03
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to '_docteam'14:04
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:04
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 26 14:04:08 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:04
openstackMinutes (text):
annegentle#startmeeting DocTeam14:04
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 26 14:04:16 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"14:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'14:04
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annegentlewho is here for the Doc Team meeting?14:04
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* Sam-I-Am raises hand (with coffee in it)14:04
annegentleAgenda ^^14:04
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annegentleI don't have much (and we can talk more at the hangout later!)14:05
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annegentlebut feel free to add topics14:05
annegentle#topic Action items from the last meeting14:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"14:05
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annegentleACTION: nickchase talk with annegentle about a cross-project14:06
annegentle    proposal for getting docs easier in?14:06
annegentleI haven't talked with Nick on that one14:06
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annegentleACTION: nickchase to talk with annegentle about getting the blueprint approved and how to use it14:06
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Sam-I-Ami think thats done14:06
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annegentleNot sure on that one either, something about
annegentleACTION: Sam-I-Am to update the work items in the blueprint14:07
annegentlewhich blueprint?14:07
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Sam-I-Ami think we're ok there... i figured out how to update the blueprint in the commit message14:07
Sam-I-Amannegentle: the install guide one14:07
annegentleSam-I-Am: ok, yep, that's done14:07
annegentle(well the action item is)14:07
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annegentleOh just read the log more closely, I agree with Nick/sgordon that a knowledge base would fit the bill. I'd like to experiment with a non-CLA authoring system14:09
annegentleespecially for user docs14:09
annegentlebut yes we still need our "guides" deliverables14:10
annegentleSomeone propose a summit topic!14:10
Sam-I-Amshould nick propose that?14:10
annegentleSam-I-Am: yep14:10
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annegentle#action NickChase please propose a summit topic on a nonCLA authoring system14:10
Sam-I-Amhe's usually on this meeting...14:11
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annegentleOkay, this one is done:14:11
annegentleACTION: Sam-I-Am propose 21:00 UTC on 2014-03-19 for Google Hangout on mailing list14:11
annegentleAnd then the last one, ACTION: propose talks at http://summit.openstack.org14:12
annegentleis in progress14:12
annegentlewhich is a nice transition to14:12
annegentle#topic Design Summit proposal system now open, doc slots Wed-Fri. morning14:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit proposal system now open, doc slots Wed-Fri. morning (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"14:12
annegentleThierry updated the schedule, we have four slots14:12
annegentleThough I would like us to use a crossproject slot to discuss blueprints, dev authoring, etc14:12
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Sam-I-Ammaybe i should talk about a crash course in learning how to patch things :)14:13
annegentleI can propose it if you don't know if Nick is buried14:13
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annegentleThe last doc topic is 11:40 - 12:20 Friday morning14:14
annegentleThe first doc topic is 9:00 - 9:40 Wed. morning. Those are tentative since it could still change14:14
annegentleOur proposal for the business side was not accepted but I repurposed it for a blog post14:14
Sam-I-Ambusiness side?14:14
annegentleoh it's what I call the non-Design Summit14:15
annegentledunno what else to call it14:15
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ttxannegentle: also note the slots are sprinkled over the 4 days to make sure every project can attend some of those.14:15
ttxrqther than being in block at the beginning14:15
annegentleI like the schedule ttx14:15
annegentleI wonder though if operators won't be around Friday?14:16
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Sam-I-Amannegentle: i like that blog post14:16
annegentleneed them in docs sessions if we can14:16
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annegentlealso note14:17
annegentle#topic Summit schedule now posted to
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit schedule now posted to (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"14:17
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annegentleSam-I-Am: I guess it's the Summit and the Design Summit14:17
annegentlenot much more to say there!14:17
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annegentle#topic Installation guide updates for Icehouse14:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Installation guide updates for Icehouse (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"14:18
annegentleGot anything to report Sam-I-Am?14:18
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annegentlefloor is yours!14:18
Sam-I-Amthe project is progressing nicely, minus the actual ml2 instructions because the rdo neutron packages still dont work14:18
Sam-I-Amin the meantime i'm working on plenty of ancillary patches to clean up the install guide14:19
Sam-I-Amnever a shortage of work!14:19
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Sam-I-Amnext patches will move 'launch an instance' and clarify the 'basic os config' chapter14:20
annegentleSam-I-Am: I should have some Object Storage edits ready soon14:20
Sam-I-Amand at that point... i'll be done except for the ml2 specifics14:20
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annegentleI wanted to do a call for help on ceilometer testing and heat testing14:20
annegentleI think trove is being covered14:20
annegentle#help test the ceilometer instructions in Install Guide master branch14:20
Sam-I-Amthen we get to see what RC1 does... and the final release. unfortunately we can't update the docs for ubuntu 14.04 or rhel 7 until those are released :/14:20
annegentle#help test the heat instructions in Install Guide master branch14:20
annegentleSam-I-Am: what's the date for 14.04?14:21
Sam-I-Amwe need cinder/swift/heat/ceilometer/horizon testing14:21
Sam-I-Ami still havent been back to horizon after the mess a few weeks ago.14:21
Sam-I-Amannegentle: right around when icehouse releases14:21
Sam-I-Amthere are no packages for 14.04 yet14:21
annegentlettx: do you know the release date for 14.04?14:22
Sam-I-Ameveryone is building against 12.0414:22
annegentleI think we'll release on April 17th by cutting a stable/icehouse branch14:22
ttxApril 17th14:22
annegentleand then backport14:22
Sam-I-Ami suspect the actual openstack instructions won't change, but the base OS configuration and package names may change14:22
annegentlettx: perfect, thanks14:22
annegentleSam-I-Am: okay, let's hope it's minimal14:22
Sam-I-Ami'm not sure why openstack is aligned to a major ubuntu release14:23
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Sam-I-Amit makes documentation really difficult14:23
Sam-I-Amand testing14:23
annegentleSam-I-Am: best way to get into LTS14:23
annegentleas far as I understand it14:23
annegentleperhaps only way14:23
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annegentleany questions?14:23
Sam-I-Amhmm :/ i wish we had access to testing icehouse on 14.04 somewhere14:23
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Sam-I-Ami guess this only comes around every 2 years, but i think we should try to get a foot in the door for... 16.04?14:24
annegentleSam-I-Am: not sure how to get early access14:25
annegentle#topic Preparation for release - freeze on 1.15.0 in pom.xml files14:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Preparation for release - freeze on 1.15.0 in pom.xml files (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"14:25
annegentleOkay I was thinking of what we need to do to prep for release14:25
annegentleConfig Ref and Install Guides are "released" to a stable/icehouse branch14:25
annegentleand we make a new sitemap.xml14:25
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annegentlethat's where it's documented14:26
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sldThanks for that. (Oftentimes I wonder how many links you have handy at any given point in time. ;-) )14:26
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annegentleSummer had asked about cross linking, do you go to /trunk? The answer is yes, you have to, then in the final stable branch cut, you have to go through the repo and change the links from /trunk to /icehouse when referring to install and config14:27
Sam-I-Amits the annepedia14:27
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annegentleheh sld14:27
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annegentlealso wanted to let everyone know we'll standardize on 1.15.0 for the Icehouse builds14:28
annegentleNo more updates to our use of the maven plugin unless it's absolutely necessary14:28
annegentleOh, that reminds me did anyone have comments on my post about 1.15.0?14:29
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Sam-I-Amno questions from me (yet)14:30
Ajaeger1No preference...14:30
sldNope.  ..just read it.. all good.14:30
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annegentle#topic Google Hangout today14:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Google Hangout today (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"14:31
annegentleFeel free to add to that agenda!14:31
annegentleI'm looking forward to it!14:31
Sam-I-Amhopefully we can make live mode work14:31
sldwhen is that?14:31
sld(i'm not good at time conversion.)14:32
Sam-I-Amtoday, at... 4 pm ct14:32
sldah, ok.14:32
sldif I'm awake, I'll try and make it. :)14:32
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Sam-I-Amwell, thats awesome... the carpet installers rescheduled for... right during our meeting.14:33
Sam-I-Amthey were supposed to be here now14:33
Sam-I-Amso.. it could be exciting.14:33
annegentleSam-I-Am: aw man14:33
annegentle#topic Open disussion14:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Open disussion (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"14:33
Sam-I-Am-1 spelling error14:34
Sam-I-Amnothing else new here. i'm working with a bunch of redhat folks to resolve the neutron issues... never a lack of helpful people.14:35
Sam-I-Amrrreeally looking forward to the summit14:35
annegentle#topic Open discussion14:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: DocTeam)"14:35
annegentlethat's good Sam-I-Am!14:35
annegentleI would like to hear back from the training guides team, sarob or colin14:36
annegentleon your query to the list... I'll write back today though14:36
Sam-I-Amdid you post to the ml? i didnt see anything.14:36
annegentlenot yet yeah14:37
annegentleokay, take back your day!14:37
annegentleif there's nothing else.14:37
Sam-I-Amannegentle: at some point i'll try to put together a ref guide for diagrams14:37
Sam-I-Amannegentle: at least i would like to14:37
Sam-I-Ami just can't get to it right now :/14:37
annegentleSam-I-Am: great idea, we had a section in the HowTo wiki page14:37
sldthat would be cool.14:37
Sam-I-Amits interesting to explain pictures with text14:38
Sam-I-Ama picture is worth a 1000 words?14:38
sldor more sometimes. ;)14:38
Sam-I-Ami'll probably post a "sample" SVG where people can just suck attributes out of it14:38
Sam-I-Amcolors, shapes, line thickness, font, etc.14:38
Sam-I-Amkind of a template of sorts?14:39
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annegentlethat would be great!14:39
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Sam-I-Amcool... we definitely need it14:39
annegentleattach it to the wiki page14:39
Ajaeger1Sam-I-Am: Great, go for it!14:39
annegentleI get asked for arch diagrams all the time14:39
Sam-I-Ami'm also not sure how we review this sort of stuff14:39
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Ajaeger1To the wiki page - or find a place in the git repo14:39
Sam-I-Amand my ideas need reviewing :P14:39
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sldI can look it over when you are done?14:40
sldSam-I-Am:  I'll do that as time permits, myself.14:40
annegentleSam-I-Am: generally post to the ML then update the wiki (sound right?)14:40
Sam-I-Amannegentle: that works14:40
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annegentleok cool14:40
Sam-I-Ami need something where i can get a pile of -1's :)14:40
sldSam-I-Am: I'm referring to reviewing your stuff, myself. ;-)14:40
annegentlepick it up in #openstack-doc if there's anything else!14:40
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 26 14:40:45 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:40
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johnthetubaguy1#startmeeting XenAPI15:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 26 15:01:46 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy1. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:01
johnthetubaguy1who is around for the meeting today?15:01
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johnthetubaguy1I should ping bob...15:02
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johnthetubaguy1so, no sign of him right now15:04
johnthetubaguy1anything to raise today?15:04
johnthetubaguy1I just planned to checkup on the CI15:04
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johnthetubaguy1also, wondering if we had a XenAPI session at the summit, if people would have any topics right now15:04
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johnthetubaguy1I need to think hard on the topics, but don't have anything major right now, that warrants a whole session15:05
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johnthetubaguy1OK, so lets call it a day then...15:08
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 26 15:08:13 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:08
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jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 26 16:00:41 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
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bill_az_bill here, standing in for jungleboy16:01
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jgriffithNo winston yet, but he was in #cinder so maybe he'll be along shortly16:01
jgriffithavishay: morning/evening16:01
jgriffithDuncanT: paging Duncan, paging DuncanT16:02
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jgriffithalright, let's make this quick16:02
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jgriffith#topic RC1 status16:03
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jgriffithWe have one item left16:03
* ttx lurks16:03
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1188189 in cinder "Some server-side 'SSL' communication fails to check certificates (use of HTTPSConnection)" [High,In progress]16:04
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jgriffithThis may be bigger than we want to tackle right now, I wouldn't say that everything is covered in what's proposed16:04
jgriffithbut it's a good chunk16:04
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ttxjgriffith: also make sure you push in16:04
ttx(recent translations)16:05
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thingeejgriffith: have you heard from daniel?16:05
jgriffithttx: done16:05
jgriffiththingee: I have not16:05
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avishayjgriffith: this involved solidfire and one other driver, right?  anything else?16:05
jgriffiththingee: and I have some concerns16:05
jgriffithI know in my testing this broke upgrades16:05
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jgriffithSadly it turns out self-signed certs won't work here for upgrades16:06
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jgriffithdon't know who else uses them16:06
jgriffithbut I wanted to make sure everybody affected had a close look16:06
jgriffithand it may not be something we want to merge at this point16:06
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jgriffithttx: done16:06
jgriffithDid anybody else look at this (this == ssl patch)?16:07
avishayjgriffith: 2 patches right, for solidfire and zadara?16:07
jgriffithavishay: yeah16:07
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jgriffithavishay: I guess I know the answer to the question about Zadara :(16:07
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jgriffithSo my proposal here is I'll up date the lib and set the flag to not check the cert16:08
avishayjgriffith: i was waiting for a +1/2 from the respective maintainers :)16:08
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jgriffithit doesn't really "fix" the identified issue, but at least it updates to use request lib16:08
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jgriffithI'll try and track down Zadara, but they've been MIA since last summer16:08
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jgriffithvlad has moved on I think :)16:08
jgriffithanybody object to me landing that today?16:09
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* jgriffith doubts anybody cares16:09
* avishay doesn't care16:09
jgriffithok... I'll post a patch later today and push it through16:09
jgriffithFYI we're planning to cut RC1 in the morning (my morning) tomorrow16:10
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jgriffithAt this point I don't consider driver bugs to be blockers for RC16:10
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jgriffithuse your judgement in reviews today16:10
jgriffithno features disguised as bugs16:10
jgriffithno huge patches16:10
jgriffithetc etc16:10
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jgriffithuse the same guidelins we use for backports, perhaps even a bit stricter16:11
jgriffithgood enough?16:11
jgriffithany questions, concerns, items they feel MUST be in?16:11
jgriffithgoing once...16:11
jgriffithgoing twice...16:11
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avishayso close :)16:12
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jgriffithvbala: I have to say all of the last minute patches for vmware are very tiring16:12
jgriffithvbala: that being said no problems with this one16:12
vbalasorry for that16:12
jgriffithYou've got plenty of reviews16:12
jgriffithvbala: no problem, that's how it goes16:13
vbalaok :)16:13
jgriffithvbala: I'm just voicing my concern :)16:13
hartsocksmy apologies on that mark.16:13
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jgriffithvbala: I'll have a look at your patch after the meeting and likely merge it16:13
jgriffithvbala: you be around on IRC incase there's an issue?16:13
vbalajgriffith: thanks16:13
jgriffithok... anybody else?16:14
jgriffith#topic design summit sessions16:14
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jgriffithSurely people don't want to leave all the topics to me :)16:15
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rushiagrhello folks! sorry, late16:15
jgriffithI know we've all been really busy, but hopefully after tomorrow we can shift gears abit16:15
jgriffithI'd like to see some proposals start filtering in after tomorrow16:15
jgriffithIf you have something in mind let me know, or get it posted16:16
avishay0 proposals?16:16
jgriffithI'll be going through old BP's and talks we've had in the past and putting some topics together tonight16:16
rushiagris this regarding design summit sessions?16:16
jgriffithrushiagr: yes16:16
jgriffithavishay: yeah.. .ZERO.16:16
jgriffithweird for this bunch eh?16:16
avishayi know there is interest in a follow-up to replication16:16
thingeejgriffith: thought this was the plan16:16
jgriffithavishay: haha... that goes without saying16:16
rushiagrI have some desire to implement AWS style filtering in APIs, if Cinder people like the idea16:17
xyang1avishay: we can add a topic on adding consistency groups support?16:17
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thingeejgriffith: as a result, we can just focus on stability!16:17
avishayxyang1: if you plan on implementing it :)16:17
jgriffithrushiagr: submit it, but fair warning I have strong opinions based on your last BP16:17
ameadeany thoughts around breaking out the brick library?16:17
jgriffiththingee: :)16:17
rushiagrjgriffith: any feedback is good feedback for me :)16:17
winston-ddidn't we agree to have no design sessions and have bbq instead?16:17
jgriffithameade: yes, there will be a session by me to better describe that and actually make it happen16:18
xyang1avishay: sure, I'll try:)16:18
jgriffithameade: need some coordination with gantt16:18
thingeeyes there will be bbq instead of sessions.16:18
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ameadejgriffith: sweet, okay16:18
jgriffithmmmmmm bbq16:18
thingeebbq sessions16:18
xyang1avishay: but I think we haven't decided whether it sould be at volume level yet16:18
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winston-di have some idea, but i need to talk to vendors first16:18
avishayxyang1: fight it out at the summit, looks like i'm skipping this one :)16:18
jgriffithxyang1: it should :)16:18
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jgriffithcage match16:19
rushiagrjgriffith: by last bp you mean regarding EC2 APIs right?16:19
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jgriffithrushiagr: correct16:19
jgriffithrushiagr: regardless, it's  good summit topic IMO16:19
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xyang1jgriffith, avishay: I'll suggest a topic on that16:19
jgriffithxyang1: thanks16:19
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rushiagrjgriffith: I'd love to hear your opinions. I'm all in for the best way forward for Cinder and OpenStack16:19
avishayi don't think it makes sense to have consistency groups in basic replication first...of course plan replication to allow for consistency groups16:19
jgriffithI'd also like to get with bswartz and talk about Cinder versus Manilla16:20
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jgriffithwe should have a better plan there and be working together16:20
rushiagrjgriffith: cool, I'll think over it and submit it up16:20
xyang1avishay: I thought it didn't make it into icehouse because it operates at volume level?16:20
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avishayxyang1: that's not why :)16:20
jgriffithxyang1: no16:20
jgriffithxyang1: some people had concerns about that16:21
xyang1avishay: did bswartz say it only works at container (group) level for netapp?16:21
jgriffithxyang1: avishay regardless save it for later IMO16:21
akerrxyang1: yes, our replication is at the container level16:21
jgriffithavishay: oh noooos... you may not be there you said?16:21
avishayjgriffith: correct, but i think ronenkat should be there who is taking over that bit at IBM16:22
jgriffithso history here for those that don't know; netapp and Gluster I believe can't do replication at volume level (maybe others)16:22
jgriffitheharney: if I'm wrong about Gluster throw a shoe at me16:22
jgriffithso there may be others... the problem then is that we end up with this weird API16:22
* winston-d_ hands a stone to eharney just in case.16:22
avishayjgriffith: to be specific, they can't do failover/failback at the volume level, only at the "container" level16:22
eharneycorrect, Gluster currently can replicate N Cinder volumes as a chunk16:22
jgriffithsome do groups, some do volumes etc16:22
jgriffithso that's what we need to brainstorm on16:22
jgriffithhow do we satisfy the different variants without an ugly API16:23
avishayso with netapp they could only have ~500 replicated volumes if i remember correctly (500 containers), and glusterfs i think 1 :)16:23
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jgriffithmight mean it's by extension only, or something else16:23
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jgriffithor just stepping back and thinking about how to abstract all of the deltas16:23
jgriffithavishay: yeah, it's like whack-a-mole... solve one problem another pops up :)16:24
avishayi'm just worried about the scalability issues when people add SAN drivers to manilla :)16:24
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jgriffithavishay: context?16:24
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avishayjgriffith: being a smartass16:24
jgriffithavishay: ohh, the "default" context :)16:25
jgriffithavishay: you know that's the first thing I'm going to do to get my revenge right?16:25
avishayjgriffith: just like block storage management doesn't really fit well with file systems16:25
* jgriffith ports all Cinder drivers to Manilla16:25
avishayjgriffith: :)16:25
avishayeach file is a volume16:25
jgriffithOk... we digress16:26
jgriffithsome things I've got on my list:16:26
avishaythen limit all filesystems in manilla to have a limited number of files because controller X support only  that many16:26
jgriffith1. Replication16:26
jgriffith2. Brick16:26
jgriffith3. Multi-Attach16:26
jgriffith4. LIO as default target16:26
jgriffith5. HA LVM16:26
avishayok i'm done being a smartass for now16:27
jgriffithother things I've been thinking about: taskflow16:27
avishaywhat's HA LVM?16:27
winston-dWe are looing for a way to collect per volume basis usage statistics from all Cinder back-ends.16:27
jgriffithavishay: I would really like to implement an HA solution for the ref LVM driver16:27
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thingeeharlowja_away: ^16:27
winston-dAnd we have multiple back-ends from different vendors.16:27
avishayjgriffith: so HA for cinder-volume?16:27
jgriffithwinston-d: OHHH!!  Don't let me forget that!  Make sure you submit it16:28
jgriffithavishay: well for the driver16:28
jgriffithsince most backends will have their own setup/impl16:28
jgriffithjust something to make LVM even better :)16:28
avishayjgriffith: i.e., necessary modifications to the driver to allow cinder-volume to run active/passive?  or active/active?16:28
jgriffithwinston-d: also the auto-detect idea16:28
akerrjgriffith: Maybe I'm the only one still not 100% clear on expectations or timelines, but would a topic around certification process (vendor CI systems) be useful?16:28
winston-djgriffith: sure.16:29
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jgriffithavishay: I'm talking strictly LVM and to start A/P most likely16:29
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jgriffithA/A depending on how it goes16:29
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jgriffithakerr: yes, that's a required topic for sure16:29
winston-djgriffith, bswartz you guys also want to talk about one driver from multiple back-ends?16:29
jgriffithakerr: that whole things is getting ugly IMO16:29
jgriffithToo many cooks in the kitche16:30
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zhiyanthingee: hi, may i know does cinder extension stuff still on the table? which we talked in last summit?16:30
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jgriffithOk, we've obviously all got more ideas than we have slots so let's get them written up :)16:31
jgriffith#topic open-discussion16:31
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jgriffithanybody have any thoughts on anything?16:31
bswartzwinston-d, jgriffith: yeah we'll definitely talk about that16:31
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jgriffithI have some other things:16:31
bswartzsorry I missed the first 30 minutes of this meeting I had a conflict16:31
jgriffithAt yesterdays TC meeting we did an analysis on the gaps that Cinder has16:31
jgriffithie gaps regarding what we require for new projects16:32
jgriffithThere were two big things:16:32
thingeezhiyan: I've mentioned in the past the work around that does not block extensions16:32
jgriffith1. Charter/Mission statement16:32
jgriffith2. Security team16:32
jgriffithItem 1 I can take care of pretty easy myself16:32
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jgriffithItem 2 is something I'll need help/volunteers on16:33
jgriffithThe idea of a security team is a person/people that are focused on security related issues for Cinder16:33
winston-dWhat does security team usually do?16:33
jgriffithThey don't have to "fix" everything, but the idea is that they keep an eye on security related things16:33
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jgriffithwould need to have good knowledge of security issues in the cloud16:34
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jgriffithand how to keep things safe in the code16:34
jgriffithThey would be sort of a first point of contact/triage16:34
avishayalso need to check IDs at the entrance to cinder summit sessions16:34
bswartzdoes the security team get guns to shoot people?16:34
jgriffithI'm admittedly not a great security person so I'm looking for help here16:34
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jgriffithit may come from this team or from the broader OpenStack community16:34
akerrbswartz: only tasers16:35
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jgriffithbut if anybody here digs security and thinking in a paranoid manner let me know :)16:35
avishayjgriffith: not my strong point16:35
jgriffithbswartz: yes, but only squirt guns16:35
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xyang1does other project already have security team?  Maybe we can share with them?16:35
jgriffithavishay: yeah... me neither :(16:35
jgriffithxyang1: yes and yes16:35
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jgriffithI just wanted to throw it out to keep everybdoy in the loop16:36
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jgriffithOk... anybody else have anything?16:36
winston-dI can volunteer for the security team stuff.16:36
jgriffithwinston-d: awesome!16:36
ameadebesides saying "review all my patches" i got nothing lol16:37
jgriffithameade: haha16:37
winston-dwe may have special needs for security for payment use case and stuff.16:37
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jgriffithwinston-d: ahh... yes, you'd have a special interest16:38
hemnahey guys16:38
ameadeI do wanna say that you guys have been pretty quick with doing reviews and I appreciate that16:38
hemnasorry was in a preso the last hour....16:38
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hemnaso for multi attach16:39
hemnaI've actually been working on it this week16:40
hemnaI have the BP assigned to me now and will submit it in Juno J2 at the latest16:40
winston-dhemna: making good progress already?16:40
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hemnawinston-d, yah16:40
hemnaIt's going to require changes in nova, cinderclient, cinder to work16:41
bswartzhemna: are you building on zhiyan's work?16:41
hemnaI think I'm close to getting it working16:41
hemnabswartz, yah I took what he had and am running with it.16:41
bswartzokay good16:41
hemnahis code lacked a lot of needed changes to work16:41
hemnaThe BP itself talks about this idea of setting a volume as shareable or not16:42
hemnaI'm not working on that piece for now16:42
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hemnawasn't sure if we wanted that or not16:42
bswartzI think the hardest part of multiattach will be the database schema changes needed, and the upgrade procedure around those16:42
hemnaso I'm assuming all volumes at this point are multi attach candidates.16:42
hemnabswartz, yah I think I have that part working already16:42
bswartzhemna: nice16:43
hemnaI don't have the downgrade done yet, I'll do that after I finalize the schema16:43
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hemnaso many changes in so many pieces, we'll have to coordinate the patches landing16:43
bswartzhemna: is your work available as a WIP?16:43
hemnacinder api v1/v2 changes, cinderclient, etc16:44
hemnabswartz, not yet16:44
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zhiyanhemna: thanks for working on this16:44
hemnaI wanted to try and get WIP patches up prior to Atlanta16:44
zhiyanhemna: and is there a review link can share with us?16:45
hemnazhiyan, yw :)   I'm very interested in it, and figured I should pick it up16:45
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hemnazhiyan, not yet16:45
hemnaI'll try and get some WIP reviews up prior to the Atlanta dev conf.16:45
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hemnaI think it's getting close to working now as it unit test changes yet :P16:45
bswartzhemna: netapp has interest in that feature too so feel free to ask for help or bother us for reviews16:45
hemnathe unit tests will probably harder than the code changes itself.16:46
hemnabswartz, ok coolio.  will do.16:46
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akerrhemna: ice cream can grease the review wheels16:46
hemnaI've not touched these parts of cinder before, so it's all been a great learning experience so far16:46
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jgriffithOk...anything else?16:48
jgriffiththat's a wrap...16:49
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 26 16:49:03 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:49
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openstackMinutes (text):
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jgriffiththanks everybody!16:49
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ameadesee ya16:49
vbalathanks :)16:49
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hartsocks1 seck17:01
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hartsocks#startmeeting vmwareapi17:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 26 17:01:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hartsocks. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:01
hartsocksGreetings! As new thing… I'd like folks to introduce themselves and state what they are actively working on right now…17:02
hartsocksI'm Shawn Hartsock and I'm currently coordinating,n,z with several other developers.17:02
mdboothmdbooth: Red Hat, currently flitting about17:03
brownehi.  Eric from VMware.  Working on bugs17:03
jay-lau-513harksocks: Jay Lau, I want to discuss something related to vmware live migration on esx server level even with one nova compute, I'm from IBM17:03
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tjones1tjones working on backports and bug coordination17:03
sabariHey All17:03
vincent_houVincent  Hou from IBM.17:03
rgerganovI am Rado Gerganov, I am currently working on bugs and refactoring17:03
vincent_houWorking on resource pool support.17:04
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hartsocksgaryk: ping?17:06
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garykhartsocks: i am on a call - i'll join when i am done17:06
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jay-lau-513do we have plan talk about ? This can help bug which is related to live migration17:07
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1192192 in nova "Nova initiated Live Migration regression for vmware VCDriver" [Medium,Confirmed]17:07
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hartsocksjay-lau-513: I think we can start to address some of this this week.17:07
hartsocksjay-lau-513: at least in discussion...17:07
sabarijay-lau-513: I missed getting back to you last week, sorry about that.17:07
jay-lau-513harksocks: great17:07
vuilVui from VMware, working on bugs, refactoring, vSAN/ova goodness17:07
jay-lau-513sabari: no problem. I append some of my ideas on the bug 119219217:08
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1192192 in nova "Nova initiated Live Migration regression for vmware VCDriver" [Medium,Confirmed]
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hartsocks#topic agenda17:08
sabarijay-lau-513: I am taking a look.17:08
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jay-lau-513sabari: ok17:08
hartsocksTypically we discuss in-flight blueprints and then bugs and then open discussion.17:09
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sabariYes, live-migration has the same issue as cold-migration as the node information is not passed to the virt layer17:09
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sabariI proposed a patch for cold-migration, I agree that we should do something similar for live-mig.17:10
hartsocksBecause icehouse is effectively closed for blueprints, it's time to start discussing Juno plans.17:10
sabarioh okay sorry about that. I will speak up when it's time for bugs17:10
* hartsocks waits for channel to clear17:10
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jay-lau-513 , any plan for this one?17:11
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hartsocksA few months ago mdbooth posted this it's an analysis of patches in flight and our driver sits at 24% in flight.17:11
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hartsocksjay-lau-513: I will get to that.17:11
hartsocksI think garyk is one of the only developers from this group that has successfully merged blueprints. The rest of us have not had success.17:12
hartsocksI think we can all learn from garyk's example.17:12
hartsocksI know a saying…17:12
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hartsocks"a fool learns from experience, a wise man learns from history" and I have plenty experience with both.17:13
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hartsocksI would like us as a group to learn from garyk's example. In particular, I would like to call out...17:13
garykn boer maak n plan - afrikaans - for a farmer will always make a plan17:13
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hartsocksjay-lau-513 … this is part of getting to things.17:14
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hartsocksThat patch was in flight from November 14th through March 12th.17:14
hartsocksI'm to understand garyk worked day and night on that patch. And I'm sure he worked at great personal sacrifice.17:14
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hartsocksThere are 73 revisions on that patch.17:15
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hartsocksThere appear to be as many as 3 or 4 revisions *per day*17:15
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garykhartsocks: i am not sure that i understand the point here.17:16
hartsocksI'm hoping garyk is available to share some of his experiences on this work… but primarily…17:16
garykoriginally the BP was blocked because it was not generic -17:16
hartsocksI hope that neither garyk nor any of the rest of us have to work that hard again.17:16
hartsocksgaryk: go on.17:16
garykrebascing here was around 30 iterations17:16
garykbasically the fact that we got review cycles late in the game was a cause of problem.17:17
garykand the fact that i am a bad programmer :)17:17
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garyksorry for interrupting. please continue17:17
hartsocksgaryk: I would never say that.17:18
tjones1garyk - hardly!17:18
hartsocksgaryk: no, I actually was summarizing while you were on a call.17:18
garykin hebrew they call me - nezek (damage)17:18
hartsocksgaryk: I wanted to highlight your effort. And give you a chance to voice/complain about how that went so we could all learn from it.17:18
garykthank you17:19
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hartsocksgaryk: no matter what other nazek I can't argue that by any measure you are our only successful developer for icehouse.17:19
hartsocksgaryk: :-)17:20
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rgerganovgaryk, how would you compare merging a blueprint and running 50k?17:20
garykthe blueprint is harder17:20
rgerganovjust kidding :) you are a hero17:20
hartsocksgaryk: so I noticed you went through as many as 3 or 4 revisions per day at the end… why do you think that happened?17:20
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garykthere were either pep8 failures/comments that were addressed from reviewrer17:21
hartsocksgaryk: I've finally figured out my own pep8 breakage and maybe that's one small thing we can do for the OpenStack community at large…17:22
hartsocksgaryk: document how to properly avoid posting things with silly pep8 errors and things like that.17:22
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tjones1i always forget to run it and then get embarassed17:22
mdboothtjones1: +117:23
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hartsocksMaybe if we had a pre-review tool that helped us check everything?17:23
browneit might be useful if there was a check that prevent a git review without running local test first17:23
tjones1i wish tox were faster17:24
hartsocksThat's probably something that could help everyone and avoid making multiple posts in a row. I've been really bad about that myself.17:24
garykbig reviews are also very problematic. a reviewer may see something in a second iteration that she/he did not see in the first17:24
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mdboothhartsocks: In the grand scheme, though, pep8 failures are only an annoyance17:24
garyksmall is better, but no idea how to do a small on for som efatures that are more than 10 lines of code (i have seen patches for big features done in piece meal), they were very hard to follow and at time added and deleted code 3 pateches later...17:25
hartsocksmdbooth: agreed, but they do cause spam on -nova and maybe people ignore our work if they think we "cry wolf" too much?17:25
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hartsocksgaryk: I've seen some work done on the main nova branch that adds a hunk of code… but it's not used… just kind of placed there.17:26
hartsocksgaryk: then later a number of patches start applying the new thing.17:26
mdboothAs long as the commit message explains why, I like that sort of commit17:26
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mdboothI don't think there's a firm rule here, but the principal that smaller is usually better is a good one imho17:27
garykcommit message here was very specific : aging support :)17:27
garykone liner :)17:27
mdboothhartsocks: I have a general comment on reviews if now's a good time17:28
rgerganovsubmitting code that is not used is wrong to me; how do you define an interface/utility/whatever with no clients?17:28
hartsockswell, I'll leave everyone with doing their own dissection of the history of that patch and we can discuss conclusions on the mailing list.17:28
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hartsocksmdbooth: sure… I'm about to launch into another topic for the group to consider.17:29
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mdboothLots and lots of comments. Big design comments.17:29
mdboothIf a bit of code looks weird, why does it look weird?17:29
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hartsocks*lol* I tend to write small books in my patches but I've never managed to merge a feature yet.17:30
mdboothThere's no need to comment code flow17:30
mdboothNot extensively, anyay17:30
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mdboothBut it's vital to comment why something is done in a particular way rather than some other way17:30
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mdboothAssumptions that the code makes17:30
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vuilgood points17:31
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mdboothComments are better than blueprints for documenting design long term17:31
rgerganovI would argue that using good names is far more important than comments17:31
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mdboothrgerganov: That's complementary17:31
rgerganovcalling something "uuid" which is not uuid is a huge mistake no matter how many comments you have17:31
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hartsocksrgerganov: I saw a very good comment you made on a review that caused the developer to change from "get" to "search" in the name of a method. I thought that's a very good thing.17:32
hartsocksrgerganov: and I think we do have a problem around uuid abuse right now.17:32
mdboothThat's a classic example of a need for a big comment block somewhere17:33
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tjones1rgerganov: yes you have a point (and i know what you are referring to).  Still i agree with mdbooth that some -1 would have not happened if there were good comments17:33
mdboothAFAIK, there's nowhere that we describe the association between an instance and a VM17:33
mdboothAnd it's not a simple association17:33
mdboothYou have to infer it from the code17:33
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mdboothAnd some of the code is only there for legacy reasons17:33
hartsocksI actually have a blueprint proposed for this kind of concern.17:34
hartsocksBut, I'll refrain from plugging it just yet.17:34
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hartsocksA few weeks ago dansmith asked me to write this up:17:34
hartsocksand there's been much discussion around it on the mailing list.17:35
ssuranasince we are discussing about my patch I would like to clear few things here if it's okay17:35
tjones1ssurana: good idea - time's a wasting17:35
mdboothhartsocks: point 3 is a separate bp imho17:35
hartsocksssurana: I'll let you defend yourself if you feel attacked because I think that's only fair. But please keep it targeted.17:36
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ssuranaobjection#1 misuse of the "nvp.vm-uuid"17:36
ssuranaThe reason this needs to stay like this is, we want to make sure that we can get the reference to this vm in the context of the openstack instance later as well. e.g. when the user chooses the back out of the resize then we want to find this vm again and then re-do the linkage.17:37
ssuranaIf we put the nvp.vm-uuid as null, then we loose the original context of what this VM was used for originally.17:37
ssuranaHaving said the above one could argue that we are renaming that VM as well with the same uuid+suffix, and that it should be sufficient for our purpose. I wanted to mention here that even if that does solve the problem temporarily, but since "name" being a field that is quickly editable by any user who is using a client. Thus it makes it less reliable, which was the original reason why we moved away from relying on the name for linkage at the first17:37
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hartsocksssurana: okay. Let's table that to the bug discussion now.17:37
hartsocksso, Juno will open for commit in a few weeks.17:38
hartsocksmaybe sooner.17:38
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tjones1rc1 on friday17:38
tjones1so sooner17:38
hartsocksIf you follow the ML on this topic it seems the chief complaint isn't necessarily the spawn method itself … it's our tests.17:39
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tjones1um and the fact that it's complicated and hard to follow17:39
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hartsocksThe reviews in the past used to be "yeah, there's tests" but it seems the attitude has changed…17:40
vuilreally? the spawn method code is not worth a complain?17:40
browneas someone new to the code, i agree its hard to follow the tests17:40
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browneand some tests look like noops17:40
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hartsocksvuil: it's one of the easiest places to put a finger on and say "fix that" but really…17:41
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hartsocksvuil: the complaint I hear under "spawn is ugly" is … "how do I know it's tested" and that's to tjones1's point.17:41
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hartsocksboth things are related.17:41
hartsocksI've been on this project since Havana opened … and in that time…17:42
hartsocksH1 had 0 merged blueprints for this driver17:42
hartsocksH2 had 0 merged blueprints for this driver17:42
hartsockswith a number of near misses.17:42
garyki am most probably going against the grain here,but the spawn is actually tested very well. both with the fakes and the mocking. the coverage is very good17:42
hartsocksH3 had a few blueprints that merged and a number of misses. Most interestingly the ephemeral disk support missed.17:43
tjones1it missed 2 releases17:43
sabarigaryk: concur with gary, just that it's not explicit, once the refactoring is done, tests will be evident.17:43
hartsocksH3 to H RC1 looked almost identical to I3 to RC117:43
hartsocksI1 had 0 merged blueprints.17:43
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hartsocksI2 had 0 merged blueprints with a number of near misses… most interestingly ephemeral disk support missed (to me interesting anyway)17:44
hartsocksI3 had a small number of open blueprints merge.17:44
vuilgary,sabari: agree. But it is not to say the tests does miss things.17:44
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arnaudhartsocks: what's your point?17:44
hartsocksIf we continue to do business as we have. I don't see things changing.17:45
vuilIn fact through refactoring I discovered a few more things we can add to fake to make it represent reality better :-)17:45
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hartsocksvuil, arnaud, garyk, sabari: the test coverage numbers do not lie. We have very good test coverage in many places. The complaint is core-reviewers can't follow it.17:45
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hartsocksAt the moment we have the core-reviewers attention and they are interested in seeing us refactor things both in the code… and in test…17:46
hartsocksand if we had a J-1 that was 0 merged features… this would be no different than everything that has happened since grizzly-117:47
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hartsocksWe are going on two years now as a community with this same pattern of extreme effort and only marginal success.17:47
tjones1hartsocks: ok - suggestions??17:48
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hartsocksI suggest we make priority for Juno-1 be refactoring work.17:48
hartsocksNo new features.17:48
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hartsocks(at least features behind refactoring work)17:48
tjones1what about the 6 features we did for icehouse that did not make it?17:49
hartsocksThat means a number of parallel refactoring efforts… and some coordination… I can't propose all that here and expect us to resolve it in 15 minutes.17:49
hartsockstjones1: a good point for discussion.17:49
tjones1glance work. vsan, ova, hot plug, etc17:50
hartsockstjones1: will the core-reviewers allow those 6 to merge first before we refactor or will they block it?17:50
tjones1hartsocks: i am not disagreeing but i am mentioning we left significant work on the table….  i don't know the answer to that17:50
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tjones1we will have to ask17:50
hartsocksI am proposing something radical.17:51
hartsocksI won't and can't say we *must* do this or else.17:51
hartsocksI rarely use this forum as a platform. But I felt this needed to be aired.17:51
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tjones1you want to do refactor and then the icehouse features after? just trying to clarify17:51
tjones1and where does oslo integration come in - we clearly need like 2 or 3 hours for this meeting :-)17:52
hartsocksThat's the possibility that makes the most sense to me. Assuming we have core-reviewer support.17:52
hartsocksI just wanted to air this while I have everyone's attention...17:52
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hartsocksThat's our icehouse etherpad where we all coordinated efforts.17:53
hartsocksHere's our Juno etherpad...17:53
hartsocks… please use it for coordination. None of us has anymore authority than the others.17:54
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hartsocksAnd I genuinely feel this code base is sick.17:54
hartsocksAs in "ill" or "has a fever" not as in "awesome dude"17:54
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mdboothCurse those young people and their language redefinition17:55
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hartsocksBecause if I don't draw that conclusion … based on the valiant efforts of garyk, russellb, and other reviewers then I have to draw different conclusions that aren't good for collaboration.17:55
garykhartsocks: i look at it a little different17:55
hartsocksmdbooth: :-)17:55
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garyki think it is an opportunity to improve things. that is what we have17:56
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hartsocksgaryk: that doesn't feel like anything opposing what I've said.17:56
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tjones1i agree - we have been living with some legacy stuff that we all hated - now we have the opportunity to fix it17:56
garykcorrect, but lets look ahead. we have a nice proposal. lets start to comment on that.17:57
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mdboothThe specific proposal was that juno-1 be a 0 feature release17:57
mdboothDoes anybody object to that?17:57
garykthere were the three patches by vui providing an framework. lets look at those and see if it is the right way to go17:57
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garykmdbooth: i do17:58
vuilAddressed by:
vuil    vmwareapi: WIP: (nonworking draft) refactor spawn logic proposal17:58
garykmy two cents are lets look at the spawn issues, try and get them done asap. hopefully have a little window for features17:58
vuilwould be the last of the three that the other two was setting up for. I would like some comments on the general approach17:58
hartsocksany objection for putting the specific proposal Juno-1 as a 0 feature release to a vote in 7 days time?17:59
hartsockswould people agree to abide by the results of the vote?17:59
vuilwhich I think can proceed in parallel with the other refactoring work items listed in the BP17:59
mdboothhartsocks: Do you want to kick off a mailing list discussion?17:59
mdboothGiven that we have 1 minute, might be better taken there17:59
hartsocksmdbooth: that should happen as well.17:59
tjones1so very clearly we are saying.  do the refactor, THEN add the icehouse features that did not back it back on.  we need to clarify the olso integtation18:00
russellbit's probably easier to say "here are the specific refactorings" we're doing first18:00
russellband hopefully that's within juno-118:00
russellbif so, maybe some features make it18:00
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russellbif not, have to finish it, because it will be disruptive to feature work anyway18:00
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garykrussellb: agree 100%18:00
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hartsocksrussellb: I agree with that.18:00
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russellbother big juno ask is please try to coordinate your patch stream so that there's less conflict18:00
russellbi think that was one of the things that has slowed down reviews/merges18:01
vuilthe oslo work is a refactoring of sorts. I removes dependencies on a bunch of code that is now way better tested elsewhere.18:01
hartsocksvuil: I agree with that.18:01
tjones1ok i'd really like to get the refactor done asap so we can get the icehouse misses into j-118:01
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tjones1can that be a goal?18:02
hartsockswe're out of time. I will kick off a thread on the ML to further discussion.18:02
sabarijay-lau-513: we didn't have an opportunity to discuss the live-migration today, would be happy to have a discussion on the mailing list/irc.18:02
hartsockstjones1: that can be an appropriate compromise.18:02
hartsocksI'm over on #openstack-nova for further IRC discussion.18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:02
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 26 18:02:57 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:02
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notmynameswift team meeting time.18:59
notmynamewho's here?18:59
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* clayg is not here19:00
notmynameok, creiht's gotta run, so let's go fast ;-)19:01
notmyname#startmeeting swift19:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 26 19:01:08 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'19:01
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notmynamenot a ton on the agenda today19:01
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notmynamefirst up, OpenStack Icehouse19:01
notmyname#topic Icehouse19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse (Meeting topic: swift)"19:02
claygare we still doing that?19:02
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* peluse thinks of a cooler and then drifts to thiking of beer19:02
notmynamewe need to offer our sacrifice^Wrelease next week19:02
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notmynameie our RC for the Icehouse integrated release19:03
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pelusewhat needs to get done?19:03
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notmynamelooking at what's in master since 1.13.0 and what's proposed right now in gerrit, there isn't a lot of major stuff (yay frequent releases)19:03
zaitcevI like the containeralias, but account ACLs are nice too.19:03
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notmynametherefore I'm leaning towards a 1.13.1 release, rather than 1.14.019:04
notmynamebut if I've missed something, please let me know19:04
torgomaticI'd like cross-account copy, but I think I saw there was some security problem...?19:04
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notmynameI updated the priority reviews wiki page
claygtorgomatic: psssththt "security"19:04
notmynameand there is a set of things that should be looked at with icehosue19:04
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creihttorgomatic: yeah I could copy an object from an account that I didn't have access to19:05
notmynamethe logging and range and md5 patches should go in pre-icehouse19:05
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torgomaticcreiht: yeah, that seems bad... is that something we can fix in Swift, or does the auth system have to do it?19:05
creihtunless I was doing something wrong (which wouldn't be the first time :))19:05
claygcreiht: did you write a failing functests!  (dfg is all about the functests)19:05
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creihttorgomatic: not sure, haven't heard back from them yet19:05
creihtclayg: dfg volunteered to work on that19:05
* clayg hugs dfg19:06
creihtclayg: still no guarantee... creating a reasonable test is a bit problematic for that one19:06
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notmynamethat's numberwang19:07
portanteah yeah, sorry19:07
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portantesome one was talking about security? ;)19:08
notmynameportante: are those the functest patches you've got WIP?19:08
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portanteworking on the unit tests for the proxy logging fix19:08
notmynameah, cool. good.19:09
torgomaticany thoughts on tests for the slo-range patch?19:09
portanteif I understood what that fix was about, ... sorry19:09
creihttorgomatic: dfg is working on that19:10
portantecan somebody explain that offline?19:10
torgomaticcreiht: ok cool19:10
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notmynameok, cool19:10
notmynameso it looks like the manifest bugs (including logging) are being actively worked on, including tests19:10
notmynameother stuff is being reviewed19:11
creihttorgomatic: but like I told clayg, it is a bit tricky :)19:11
notmynameand peluse clayg and torgomatic are busy with storage policies19:11
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torgomaticcreiht: yeah, I could have sworn we had a functional test for that stuff already19:11
torgomaticat least for the simple case19:11
notmynamealso, if you are going to atlanta and haven't registered yet with your ATC discount code, you should do that before friday. (do it now!)19:12
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portanteand get your plane tickets before they go up!19:12
* notmyname needs to do that today19:12
torgomaticwell yeah, after they go up it's a bit late to buy a ticket ;)19:13
* peluse gets it19:13
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zaitcevwait, what19:13
notmynamewhat other patches need to be in for icehouse?19:13
zaitcevI thought discount expired on 3/2219:13
notmynamezaitcev: they extended it to the 28th19:13
zaitcevI just got budget today19:14
notmynameit looks likely that we'll only have 8 sessions for swift at the summit. 15 have been proposed already19:15
notmynameso I propose a cage match to the death19:16
pelusebetter than having 15 slots and only 8 submissions19:16
notmynameyes, true :-)19:16
peluseI'm in on the cage match!19:16
notmynamepeluse: yeah, but you're bigger than anyone else ;-)19:16
cschwede_notmyname: is this a fixed number?19:16
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cschwede_notmyname: or adopting to the number of submissions?19:16
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claygnotmyname: that's no joke peluse has guns19:17
notmynamecschwede_: final schedules have yet to be approved, but it looks like we'll likely have 8 time slots, 40 minutes each19:17
notmynameand please don't stop submitting session proposals.19:18
creihtnotmyname: :/19:18
creihtabout session slots19:18
notmynamebut don't assume every one will be accepted :-)19:18
notmynamecreiht: my thoughts exactly19:18
pelusenotmyname:  maybe we can collapse a few related ones into single sessions w/shorter summaries to at least socialize some ideas?19:18
cschwede_hmm, too many interesting Swift summit proposals. Maybe do some of them outside the regular slots?19:18
notmynamepeluse: ya19:18
notmynamecschwede_: possibly19:18
creihtnotmyname: is there a count for all the projects?19:18
notmynameI think we may also have a designated unconference area19:19
pelusethere's always the local pub too19:19
notmynamecreiht: why would you ask questions you know that will make you sad?19:19
cschwede_peluse: +119:19
notmynameok, anything else for "The Road to Icehouse" (tm)?19:20
creihtnotmyname: I wonder how that number gets calculated19:20
notmynameI had py3 support in swiftlcient on the agenda, but I can't remember why I added that19:20
torgomaticlooks like people are working on it, which seems fine19:21
notmyname#topic open discussion19:21
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)"19:21
peluseStop your grinnin' and drop your linen... acct head policy rollup has been approved (much thanks clayg and torgomatic!)19:21
creihtnotmyname: maybe about tests with py3 merge props?19:21
notmynamecreiht: ya, maybe. but that seems like a thing we shoudl do regardless19:21
creihtyeah agreed, but just remember someone asking about that in channel19:22
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creihtso I was thinking maybe that's why you put it on there19:22
notmynameany patch reviews or other issues that need to be brought up in today's meeting?19:22
pelusejust one I can catch up w/clayg about on the other channel19:22
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notmynamelast call...19:23
notmynamethanks for attending this week. keep up the good work!19:24
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:24
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 26 19:24:17 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:24
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ttxhub_cap: around ? Join #openstack-dev ?19:59
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stevebaker#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 26 20:00:16 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:00
stevebaker#topic rollcall20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
asalkeld(hi from Raleigh)20:00
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stevebakerno actions last week20:01
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stevebaker#topic Adding items to the agenda20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"20:02
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stevebakeranything to add to the agenda?20:03
zanebfixing the gate?20:03
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zanebor leave that for offline20:03
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randallburtsorry I'm late20:04
stevebakerI'll add it20:04
skraynevzaneb: you mean pep8? or something else?20:04
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shardyskraynev: the config generation which is currently broken20:04
zanebskraynev: yeah, the config file is borked20:04
stevebaker#topic Icehouse rc-1 bug burndown list\20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse rc-1 bug burndown list\ (Meeting topic: heat)"20:04
skraynevshardy, zaneb: ok, thanks guys ;)20:04
stevebaker3 bugs to go, lets quickly go through each one20:05
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1291091 in heat "dangerous secgroup rule created when the "SourceSecurityGroupName" property string doesn't refer to an existing security group" [High,In progress]20:05
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stevebakerthis needs reviews as soon as gate is fixed20:05
stevebakershould be good to go20:05
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1243992 in heat "Race on delete between OS::Neutron::Subnet and OS::Nova::Server->networks->uuid" [High,In progress]20:06
stevebakerneeds an approve20:06
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1296859 in heat "stack-list throws an error if any stack returned contains a template error" [Medium,Triaged]20:07
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stevebakersdake has a migration script pending to fix this particular validation error20:07
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stevebakerI've kicked a few bugs, is there anything that people want to pull back into rc1?20:08
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shardystevebaker: No, but IMO we should have an rc2 for
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1297761 in heat "No validation of top-level template keys" [Undecided,New]20:09
shardyand any other stuff obviously :)20:09
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stevebakerwe could be ready for cutting rc1 at the end of this week <-- ttx20:10
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tspatzierstevebaker: I started working on this today.20:10
stevebakeryeah I'm going to assume we will want an rc220:10
ttxstevebaker: awesmoe20:10
ttxor some20:10
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stevebakero for oresome20:10
zanebstevebaker: lol20:10
stevebaker#topic Should we sync latest oslo.db code?20:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Should we sync latest oslo.db code? (Meeting topic: heat)"20:11
stevebakeris syncing oslo db too high risk for rc2?20:11
sdakestevebaker sorry was busy with interviews, migration patch should be ready to roll in couple hours20:11
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asalkeldyes, it's quite different20:11
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zanebstevebaker: sounds late & risky to me20:12
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asalkeldthey are starting to remove all globals20:12
asalkeldso requires a bit of work20:12
asalkeld(sessions etc)20:13
stevebakerok, lets do it in early juno20:13
sdakeimo changing anything in ocmmon is not ideal at this point20:13
asalkeldocaml :)20:13
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stevebaker#agreed sync oslo db in early juno20:13
stevebaker#topic Defining designated sections for Heat core definition20:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Defining designated sections for Heat core definition (Meeting topic: heat)"20:14
stevebakerthis one is a doozy20:14
randallburtI want section 7.20:14
stevebakerso there has been back and forth between the TC and the board about how to define what is "core" OpenStack20:15
zanebso, do we only have to explicitly list pluggable stuff that we want in core?20:15
zanebor do we have to list all of the non-pluggable stuff + the pluggable stuff we want in core?20:15
stevebakerthe board have asked each project to define their designated sections, and I shall tell you what that means20:16
zaneb(I think there was some discussion about this, but I forget the outcome, if any)20:16
asalkeldkinda depends on what is defined as core in the other projects20:16
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stevebaker*if* heat was part of OpenStack core, what parts of heat would need to be installed for a cloud to claim that they "have heat"20:16
asalkeldwe can't say resource x is core if the feature is not core in it's project20:17
randallburtseems to me, Heat "core" should be HOT, CFN, and the "native" and CFN resources that correspond to the "core" openstack services (whatever they may be).20:17
asalkeld-1 to cfn20:17
stevebakerhere is where our results can go20:17
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zanebasalkeld: but we could say if you have that feature, you have to have the resource plugin for it too20:17
randallburtasalkeld:  I wouldn't argue20:17
sdake-1 to non-native resources20:17
sdakecore is the minimum20:18
stevebakerso I just want to start the discussion now, and lets whack a first draft into
zanebrandallburt: no need for cfn to be core IMO20:18
sdakewe dont want to force cfn and non-native on folks20:18
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randallburtso openstack native api, and resource plug-ins that support the other services defined as "core"?20:18
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asalkeldsounds good20:18
asalkeldwhat about cfn-tools?20:19
stevebakerrandallburt: that is the gist I've been thinking of20:19
zanebyep, and the HOT parser20:19
shardyI agree native api and resources, but we'll have to fix the gaps where we still require cfn stuff20:19
randallburtcfn-tools isn't *required* to make heat work20:19
stevebakerasalkeld: that is up to the user's images20:19
randallburtstevebaker:  +120:19
zanebshardy: true, we'll have to require WaitCondition and the like20:19
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asalkeldstevebaker, just saying we should be explict20:19
sdakecfn-tools is not part of hte integrated release randallburt20:19
sdaketo be core, it has to be integrated first20:19
stevebakerso lets get on that etherpad and brain-dump a list20:19
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shardyzaneb: provide native signalling in general, e.g from ceilometer which currently requires ec2tokens20:20
shardythat's the main gap AFAIK20:20
sdakei thought to hvae a designed section you had to have functional CI in place20:20
sdakestevebaker did I parse that wrong?20:21
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stevebakerah yes, designated sections are validated by tempest tests, so you should be able to run tempest against a cloud to check for compliance20:22
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stevebakerhow about this for designated20:23
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stevebakerall OS::Heat::* resources20:23
stevebakerOS::* resources which correspond with the APIs of designated sections of other projects20:23
zanebcan we insert "non-deprecated" in there?20:24
stevebakerclouds are free to reimplement resource types, as long as they match the schema of ours, since that will pass the tests20:25
stevebakerzaneb: yes, because its not long enough yet ;)20:25
asalkeldcan we add "core" to our resource versioning system?20:25
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shardystevebaker: sounds good, but mentioning tempest, I guess there'll be a core/non-core refactor there, as currently we have a mix20:25
skraynevstevebaker: what about AWS:: resources which are used as parent class for OS:: resources ?20:25
asalkeldso we can just dump this info out20:25
stevebakershardy: I'm guessing there will be some attribute tagging on tests20:25
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stevebakerskraynev: I think the parent relationship should be inverted on those resources20:26
zanebskraynev: not required - making your own implementation is OK. besides, you don't have to register the AWS:: resources20:26
shardyskraynev: IMO, in the medium term we need to refactor those out, and move to a model where most AWS resources are provider templates based on native resources20:26
stevebaker"OS::* resources which correspond with the non-deprecated APIs of designated sections of other projects"20:27
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sdakewe also dont want to require deprecated OS:: resources20:27
stevebakersdake: I'll just add that to replaceable sections20:27
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skraynevshardy: I think that will be better to have one base class, which will be used OS ans AWS resources both.20:28
afarrellhello, first time here - looking to contribute to heat. specifically, tosca translation... ps - sorry for the interruption.20:28
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stevebakerafarrell: \o20:29
shardyskraynev: well that's basically what I said, only the AWS resources become provider templates not actual plugins20:29
stevebakerafarrell: you should talk to tspatzier20:29
afarrellthanks steve20:29
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shardyskraynev: e.g AWS::EC2::Instance becomes a provider template containing an OS::Nova::Server resource20:29
tspatzierafarrell: yeah, let's talk. but maybe not hijack the meeting for this ;-)20:29
stevebakerwell, I was expecting this topic to take the entire meeting, there appears to be resounding consensus20:29
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afarrelltspatzier - no worries, thanks!20:30
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skraynevshardy: agree, it make sense.20:30
sdakei have 1 q20:30
stevebakerI'll paste that etherpad into
randallburtstevebaker:  we can argue some more if it makes you feel better.20:30
sdakethe wait conditions as they exist today, doesn't that require the cloudwatch api?20:30
stevebakerthey require the cfn API, yes20:31
sdakeok I guess we need to fix that :)20:31
randallburtstevebaker:  which we'll have to fix if we include them in "core", yes?20:31
shardysdake: Yeah, that's part of the native signaling I mentioned20:31
sdakeso we can't require waitconditions in the core20:31
sdakeneed to add an exception for waitconditions - since our dependency is not core20:31
stevebakerwell, the waitcondition is AWS::, so they are just as replacable as the API they use20:31
randallburtwe can always leave them out in the first go, they're handy but you can do cool stuff without them.20:31
zanebstevebaker: is this an immediate thing, or targeting some future release? A lot of cfn stuff may drop out over time, but be required right now20:31
sdakestevebaker good point - back to lala land forme20:32
stevebakerbut software deployments can use native heat api *or* cfn20:32
shardysdake: I started working on some native alterntives, but to some extent you can replace them with stevebaker's SoftwareDeployment resources, which already support native signalling20:32
shardystevebaker: \o/ SoftwareDeployments ftw :)20:32
sdakeif only someone would write a hip blog about softwraedeployments :)20:33
shardyI still think we may need a pure signalling resource for some use-cases, but it's definitely not super high priority20:33
stevebakersignal_transport=HEAT_SIGNAL ;)20:33
asalkeldany thoughts about moving software configs into a seperate repo?20:33
asalkeld(like the autoscaling)20:33
asalkeld(an aside I know)20:34
shardyasalkeld: like the autoscaling?20:34
tspatziersdake: going to play around with software deployment and hope to produce some more samples and even docs around how to use it.20:34
stevebakerasalkeld: software configs could be stored in glance, which would leave a *tiny* deployments api20:34
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sdaketspatzier that would be great - people wont know how to use it without docs :)20:34
stevebakerasalkeld: which may as well stay in heat20:34
asalkeldstevebaker, I mean the code20:34
asalkeldno biggie20:34
zanebstevebaker, asalkeld: does it have a separate endpoint in the catalog?20:35
sdakei think we need to sort out getting autoscaling into a new repo before we shave off more work :)20:35
asalkeldzaneb, I think it should20:35
stevebakerasalkeld: I hadn't considered that. its just part of the heat api currently20:35
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randallburtasalkeld, zaneb templates will, software cofigs would too I suppose.20:35
zanebasalkeld: inclined to agree it should, but *does* it? ;)20:36
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shardysdake: why do we want autoscaling in a separate repo, when there has been zero progress on the native autoscaling API over an entire cycle?20:36
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tspatzierare you talking about all the hooks that are currently going into heat-templates? or more of the software config implementation?20:37
shardyI'm very happy we have the native resources, but IMO splitting repos is premature20:37
stevebakertspatzier: that is good point, I've been assuming that heat-templates is the best place for the hooks to live20:37
zanebshardy: 2 cycles by my count, but hopefully that won't last forever. I don't think sdake is suggesting we split it _now_20:37
sdakeshardy my point was we haven't tackled autoscaling, why would we tackle software deployments as a separate repo20:37
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shardysdake, zaneb: k, just wanted to check there wasn't some decision I missed ;)20:38
asalkeldyeah, it's a matter of people20:38
tspatzierstevebaker: yes, agree. I don't see other parts to be split out at the moment.20:38
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shardyI'm not opposed to splitting stuff when it makes sense20:38
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shardyasalkeld: That's my main argument for not splitting things out, lets focus in one place rather than fragment effort20:39
shardywhen it becomes clear there's an obvious split, split the repos20:39
stevebakershardy: +120:39
asalkeldjust re: hoha about application/infrastructure seperation20:39
shardyand develop things in a way that would be sympathetic to a future separation20:39
asalkeldshardy, sure20:39
asalkeldbut maybe a good time for a new endpoint20:39
asalkeldto make that easy20:40
stevebaker#topic Teh gates is borken20:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Teh gates is borken (Meeting topic: heat)"20:40
asalkeldreminds me to go fix solum sample config20:41
zanebI put up a patch to fix the gate20:41
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zanebit modifies an oslo-incubator file without an upstream change20:41
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sdakei'm pretty sure when I did that I got 2 -1 votes :)20:42
shardyzaneb: so can you explain why the oslo folks wouldn't take your patch?20:42
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stevebakerzaneb: do you want to append to that so we get a head-start on merging it?20:42
asalkeldis this the client config sections?20:42
shardyI'm -2 on it unless we move it out of openstack/common20:42
zanebshardy: it was a different patch that they rejected20:42
dhellmannif you have oslo patches you need to land for rc1, please let us know in #openstack-oslo20:43
stevebakercan't we just have a change which runs generate_sample.sh20:43 calls a python file stevebaker20:43
sdakegenerator.py20:43 is pos imo :)20:43
dhellmannsdake: :-(20:44
sdakesorry dhellmann but thtas how I see it :(20:44
zanebdhellmann: I'll drop in and discuss with you after this20:44
shardyzaneb: since we have dhellmann here, can you explain the issues, and why we can't just get the stuff into oslo?20:44
zanebshardy: basically, because the fix for us breaks Nova20:45
sdakeya an accounting of the nova viewpoint woudl be helpful20:45
zaneband vice-versa20:45
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shardyzaneb: If we *have* to fork temporarily to unblock the gate, lets pull the generator code out of the heat oslo tree completely IMO20:45
zanebI'm fine with that20:45
dhellmannzaneb: thank20:45
dhellmannsdake: patches welcome, keep your attitude20:45
zanebso to get a fix that works for Nova too involves some roundabout changes to either python-keystoneclient, nova or both20:46
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vijendarsorry.. my last message was by mistake (wrong terminal)20:46
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zanebit's not clear what the Right way to fix it is, and we don't have time to figure it out while the gate is broken20:47
shardywho'd have thought generating a config file could be so hard :(20:47
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shardyzaneb: sounds like we fork with a temporary fix then work on the long-term solution for early Juno?20:48
zanebshardy: the way that olso.config registers options is kinda... nasty. problems were probably inevitable20:48
zanebyep, I think that's the way to go20:48
shardysounds odd that we have conflicting requirements to Nova, I thought the point of us all using oslo.config etc was that it's all common20:48
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zanebshardy: I can explain the details after, but TBH it's really boring20:49
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asalkeldshardy, well in this case we are happy this isn't a library20:49
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stevebakerok, lets fork to heat.common for now20:49
zaneblong story short, python-keystoneclient is doing it wrong and Nova is caught up in it20:49
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shardyMaybe all the projects should stop generating config from keystoneclient, and just import a (generated, by the keystoneclient tree) sample snippet20:50
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mspreitzzaneb: could that be the cause of ?20:50
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1289135 in python-cinderclient "cinderclient AmbiguousEndpoints in Nova API when deleting nested stack" [Undecided,New]20:50
asalkeldshardy, that is possible20:51
zanebmspreitz: no20:51
shardyThe coupling between keystoneclient and all-the-projects seems to be the main issue, we keep getting borken by them20:51
asalkeldyou can apend static config20:51
sdakethe way our client section is generated is suboptimal as well20:51
asalkeldone other issue is you can't exclude files20:51
sdakei'll fix that up once we get a generator that works20:52
asalkeldotherwise we could work around this20:52
zanebsdake: what would you change?20:52
sdakezaneb i'll submit a patch for review when generator is working - you can comment there20:52
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sdakeit does some wacky global manipulation20:53
zanebI'm curious now, because it might affect the way I want to fix the generator ;)20:53
asalkeldzaneb, the problems i found:20:53
sdakei had a patch at one time but i'm not sure if I sitll hav eit20:53
sdakei couldn't get it to work with the generator so abaonded it20:53
asalkeldthe __eq__ operator in oslo.config20:53
asalkelddoes not compare value20:54
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asalkeldalso you can't have an option in multiple groups20:54
zanebasalkeld: it does now! that's the cause of this bug20:54
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stevebaker#topic open discussion20:55
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"20:55
stevebaker5 minutes20:55
zanebyeah, registering a single option in multiple groups would be nice20:55
sdakerationales for deprecating?20:55
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sdakezaneb shardy seem to have the thought we should deprecate20:56
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sdakelike to understand the technical reasons20:56
zanebplease please please let's deprecate it20:56
shardysdake: it is broken, we don't want to maintain it, and what it does is probably possible via other means20:56
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skraynevstevebaker: 1 question. if we have default value in property schema should it be used during update ?20:56
shardysdake: It does a weird update, without properly managing dependences, not using the update code20:56
shardyit deletes resource when you aren't expecting it, and is generally not going to actually do what the user really wants20:57
sdakei think people want a ha restart feature20:57
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sdakeis the answer to deprecate or make it work properly?20:57
sdakeor is the issue people don't want a ha restart feature20:57
zanebthe issue is that it doesn't belong in Heat20:57
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shardysdake: I think the same is possible either via an AutoScaling group os size 1 with an associated alarm, or via stack convergence triggered by a signal20:58
stevebakerskraynev: good question. it might make best sense to use the previous value as the default20:58
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shardysdake: If users want the functionality I have no problem with us providing it, but the implementation is not something we want to maintain, IMO20:58
sdakeif it doesn't belong in heat then where hsould it belong?20:59
zanebstevebaker: that makes no sense to me20:59
skraynevstevebaker: hm it's confusing to me20:59
sdakeok i've heard the technical implementation is wrong - that can be fixed - i've heard it doesn't belong in heat - would like to understand where it belongs20:59
zanebstevebaker: options are None or the actual default20:59
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skraynevstevebaker: when you had some list of something  and then update with None - you will not get any changes..21:00
zanebsdake: in Murano, defined as a Mistral workflow on top of your Heat stack21:00
shardysdake: we could make OS::Nova::Server optionally respond to a signal and rebuild, or have a subclass resource which does that21:00
randallburtzaneb:  ugh.21:00
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skraynevtime ... is over21:00
stevebakerskraynev: good point. I retract!21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 26 21:00:57 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:00
randallburtzaneb, skraynev IMO, if you don't pass a param value to an update, the original version should be used21:01
openstackMinutes (text):
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jd__#startmeeting ceilometer21:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Mar 26 21:01:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jd__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'21:01
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jd__#topic Milestone status icehouse-rc121:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Milestone status icehouse-rc1 (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:02
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jd__we only have a few bug left, so that looks good21:03
jd__our target is Friday for rc121:03
afarrellthomas - just trying to find the window your message popped up in :-)21:03
ildikov_jd__: currently there is a gate issue currently, I added a topic about it to the agenda21:03
gordcresource-list patch should be ok for review:
jd__ildikov_: ok21:04
* eglynn would like to target to RC1 also21:04
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1297677 in ceilometer "normal user create alarm with user-id or project-id specified will success instead of return 401" [High,Confirmed]21:04
gordcdeadlock issue might need to be pushed due to postgres issue... i think the oslo.db code doesn't work for multiple connections on postgres21:04
jd__eglynn: targeted21:04
_nadya_I have a question about rc1. We have merged several-workers patch. And there are some problems with it21:04
eglynnjd__: thank you sir!21:04
Alexei_987gordc: why do you think it's oslo problem?21:05
_nadya_gordc: am I right that we need some more patches to be merge to make everything work right?21:05
gordc_nadya_:  i added a patch to default it to a single worker:
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Alexei_987gordc: it was working for me with tests on read backends and it surely uses multiple connections21:05
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gordcAlexei_987: does it work on postgres for you? with multiple connections? it doesn't on my machine.21:06
Alexei_987gordc: it was working a month ago.. haven't tryied recently21:06
gordcand it doesn't work on gate21:06
Alexei_987gordc it did :)21:06
gordc:) there's something wonky happening. i think it's best to just default workers to single worker for now... my patch to explicitly call dispose works but i have no real idea why.21:07
_nadya_jd__: gordc: I think we need to determine the list of patches to me merged before rc1 or revert multi-spawning :(21:07
gordc_nadya_: we don't necessarily need to revert. we can just default to single worker so it behaves as before.21:08
Alexei_987_nadya_ : I think we should revert in any case21:08
Alexei_987workers are useless and doesn't solve any problem21:08
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Alexei_987workers are *only* usefull in case of specific MySQL driver21:09
Alexei_987there are much simpler way to do without them21:09
gordcAlexei_987: was just going to say that.... useless isn't exactly true21:09
jd__it's not useless if you want to use several cores21:09
gordcAlexei_987: what's the simpler way?21:10
Alexei_987use python driver for mysql21:10
Alexei_987it works in async mode21:10
jd__gordc: having multiple worker is in no way different than having several collector running, right?21:10
Alexei_987why would you use several cores? nginx works perfectly in 1 thread21:10
gordcjd__: essentially yes. that's what it's doing.21:10
jd__Alexei_987: nginx for the collector?21:10
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jd__gordc: so it's clearly just a visible effect of something that's broken more fundamentally :/21:10
Alexei_987nah.. I mean that true async code doesn't need workers21:11
Alexei_987it won't consume 100% of the cpu21:11
jd__Alexei_987: so you run nginx on 1 core on your 8 core machines? awesome21:11
Alexei_987why not?21:11
Alexei_987it's enough to fully load network21:11
Alexei_987cpu is not the bottleneck21:11
jd__and if your nginx is busy 100% of the time what do you do next?21:11
Alexei_987again cpu is not the bottleneck21:12
Alexei_987network or database21:12
jd__good for you21:12
Alexei_987database will become bottleneck in our case21:12
jd__that doesn't solve our problem21:12
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Alexei_987our problem is poorly written code for mysql21:12
jd__gordc: so I'm kind of worry, was it working with even Havana?21:13
gordcAlexei_987: in oslo.db or in ceilometer?21:13
Alexei_987it's already working on 400 req/s even when cloud is idle21:13
gordcAlexei_987: we're not writing any mysql specific code.21:13
_nadya_so we have 2 variants: 1. merge ASAP 2. revert multiple workers.  We have no more variants. We have no time to repair SQL in 2 days21:13
gordcjd__: i'm not sure. i've never tried to be honest21:13
Alexei_987ok sqlalchemy code21:14
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jd___nadya_: 1. does not fix the problem, it just hides it21:14
jd__and 2 neither21:14
_nadya_jd__: yep :D and?21:14
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jd__if you start 2 ceilometer-collector processes – which always have been a valid use case, you will have the same errors21:15
jd__because the SQL driver is probably doing something in a wrong way21:15
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gordcjd__: agreed. there's something wonky happening which doesn't let postgres work with multiple connection but let's mysql21:15
Alexei_987how driver can affect separate processes?21:15
jd__so it needs to be fixed – gordc what's the bug # if there's one actually?21:15
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gordcjd__: for postgres issue? there is none right now21:16
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jd__I'm ok to try to target it at rc1 if somebod commits to fixing it21:16
jd__otherwise it's pointless21:16
eglynnjd__: how conservative do we have to be about RC1?21:16
eglynn(i.e. treat it as effectively the final opportunity to get the above issues fixed?)21:16
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gordcjd__: i'm not sure we can fix it for rc1.21:16
_nadya_I don't think it's possible to fix in 2 days21:16
jd__eglynn: it should be final or that's not fair play21:17
Alexei_987I propose to revert workers and I'll check this postgres issue :)21:17
jd__so let's try to fix it someday, write a release not about that, and we'll backport the fix later21:17
eglynnjd__: discussion above sounds like early-cycle stuff than 11th hour cusp-of-the-deadline hustle21:17
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gordcrevert or default to single worker? it's essentially same thing but allows flexibility to have multiple workers for mongo/mysql backend which appear to work fine.21:18
Alexei_987mongo backend only consumes 10-20% of the cpu21:18
gordci'm ok with revert if we want... just presenting alternative.21:18
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gordcAlexei_987: yeah. mysql is the real issue.21:19
jd__and how reverting is going to make things work with 2 collectors running?21:19
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Alexei_987jd__: it won't I just don't like adding things that we don't actually need21:19
Alexei_987deadlock issue needs to be fixed separately21:19
jd__I don't really care about what you think when it's subjective and not technical21:20
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gordcdeadlock issue as in this patch:
jd__I just want this bug fixed, so if reverting is not going to help, there's no point21:20
jd__gordc: it depends on something outdated21:21
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gordcAlexei_987, jd__: i think that patch should be pushed to post rc-1 with multiple connection fix.21:21
jd__I'm ok to postone the fix if it's long to have it, we can document that it's not working21:22
gordci'll red x my patches that should be moved to later.21:22
jd__gordc: could you at least open a bug and document it?21:22
gordcwill do.21:22
jd__I feeling bad talking about something we don't even have a record of21:22
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eglynnso what exactly is *not* going to work with RC1? (under the proposed approach)21:23
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eglynnI'm a bit lost in these options tro revert or default to single worker etc.21:23
jd__eglynn: using PostgreSQL with more than one collector21:23
eglynne.g. are we saying horizontal scaling of the collector is simply not possible currently with sqla?21:23
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jd__eglynn: yep21:23
eglynnjd__: a-ha, but just when psql is the backend, not mysql?21:23
eglynnk, got it!21:23
jd__so we can make postgresql work by setting the number of worker to 1 by default and documenting that postgresql shouldn't change anything and not run another copy21:24
jd__that's a poor solution, but probably the best we can do in the timeframe21:24
ildikov_and we will stay now at option 1, right?21:24
jd__option 1 ?21:25
eglynnk, so that pretty much keeps sqla/postgres in the not-usable-for-prod category, right?21:25
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jd__eglynn: clearly21:25
jd__*sad face*21:25
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ildikov_jd__: merge the default to 1 worker patch21:25
_nadya_is mongo in prod category still?21:25
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eglynn_nadya_: as long as you're a licensing maverick ;)21:26
jd__ildikov_: yes, as a temporary solution :(21:26
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1298073 in ceilometer "postgres does not work with multiple connections" [High,Triaged]21:26
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ildikov_jd__: ok :(21:26
jd__thanks gordc21:26
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jd__#topic Tempest integration21:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Tempest integration (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:27
jd___nadya_: enlighten us21:27
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_nadya_what can I say? We have no Mongo. mySQL and Postgres fail on gating21:28
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_nadya_and even anotification service was broken by infra-team21:28
_nadya_repaired now21:28
_nadya_I don't see any ability to add notification and pollster tests21:29
gordc_nadya_: i assume that merged succesfully because we have no tests against notificaiton?21:29
_nadya_gordc: exactly21:29
_nadya_so we have tests but we can't make it work21:30
_nadya_so sad story :(21:30
jd__what's blocking?21:30
jd__MySQL shouldn't fail on gating :(21:30
_nadya_Ceilometer processes notification 16 minutes21:30
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_nadya_on mysql21:30
_nadya_because of high load21:31
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_nadya_solution is to add Mongo-job21:31
jd__mongo is not likely to happen soon indeed21:31
_nadya_but everybody knows Sean's position21:31
gordc_nadya_: or streamline sql schema21:31
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gordci think it's best to make adjustments to schema but that is not rc1 item.21:32
jd__yes, I don't think we can do much right now21:32
jd__let's try to think and prepare for Juno now :(21:32
eglynn_nadya_: 16 mins from receiving notification to persisting sample?21:32
eglynn_nadya_: or 16 mins from the notification being emitted by nova?21:33
_nadya_and today I was playing with HBase. It shows the same results as Mongo (good perf) but I can't imagine how to push it on gating too21:33
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_nadya_eglynn: between nova creates notifiation and Ceilometer starts to put it to database21:33
eglynn_nadya_: wow! ... are the Jenkins slaves chronicallly under-scaled/under-powered?21:34
_nadya_jd__: I don't know, do we have any estimates from TC about Tempest?21:35
eglynnas in, are they a complete mismatch to the scale to be expected in a more realistic prod style deployment21:35
jd___nadya_: not yet21:35
_nadya_jd__: maybe we should think about smth like fake-tests? I saw a lot of such test for other projects21:36
jd___nadya_: I don't know what would that be?21:36
_nadya_jd__: that API return list21:36
eglynn_nadya_: would that cut the legs out from under the whole idea of Tempest?21:37
eglynn_nadya_: (i.e. non-faked integration tests)21:37
_nadya_eglynn: ah, say it again in a different way :D21:37
eglynn_nadya_: would fake tests make Tempest kinda pointless?21:38
eglynn_nadya_: (if the point of Tempest is to test integration without the kind of fakery we use in the unit tests)21:38
gordceglynn: i think it's the way tests are done. it spikes at certain points and from there it's just backlogged because mysql isn't writing fast enough.21:39
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_nadya_eglynn: yep. but I'm afraid about TC only21:39
_nadya_eglynn: I don't want to have such tests21:39
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eglynn_nadya_: TC == technical committee?21:39
_nadya_eglynn: just thinking about variants21:39
_nadya_eglynn: yep21:40
eglynn_nadya_: k, got it, thanks!21:40
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eglynnso could the underlying core problem here be simply that the Jenkins slaves on which Tempest run are just way too under-resourced?21:40
_nadya_eglynn: there are several mailing threads about Tempest+Ceilometer, I will discuss with you tomorrow. Maybe I've missed smth21:41
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eglynn... i.e. running in bigger instances types on faster h/w would resolve?21:41
eglynn... /me prolly stating the obvious there21:41
jd__eglynn: it seems to be a problem with the SQL driver again21:42
eglynn_nadya_: ... actually its prolly just me being still behind on email backlog21:42
jd__not with the power available21:42
eglynnjd__: k21:42
jd__let's move on for now21:42
jd__#topic Release python-ceilometerclient?21:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:42
jd__I think you're on that eglynn? :)21:42
eglynnwe'll be good to go with cutting 1.0.10 once the selectable aggregates patch lands21:42
eglynncurrently just a test coverage objection21:42
eglynnshould be quick to resolve21:43
jd__hi asalkeld21:43
eglynn... so that 1.0.10 can coincide up with RC121:43
eglynnAngus hey!21:43
jd__perfect timing :)21:43
jd__#topic MongoDB licensing issues raised by the failed Marconi graduation21:43
*** openstack changes topic to "MongoDB licensing issues raised by the failed Marconi graduation (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:43
jd__not a funny topic again21:43
eglynnso the withdrawal mail from the Marconi team put the problem thusly:21:44
eglynn"The drivers currently supported by the project don't cover some important cases related to deploying it. One of them solves a licensing issue but introduces a scale issue whereas the other one solves the scale issue and introduces a licensing issue."21:44
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eglynnthe scaling/encumbered DB is mongodb21:44
eglynnthe non-scaling/unencumered one is sqlalchemy21:44
eglynnso the $64k question is ...21:45
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eglynnis this licensing palaver around mongo also clear & present danger for our project?21:45
eglynn... given that prod deployment options seem to be narrowing back to mongo21:45
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eglynnfair enough that Marconi met with disapproval for various other reasons21:46
ildikov_do we have a plan B, if Mongo is not an option because of licensing?21:46
_nadya_HBase :)21:46
jd__I think I don't want to answer that and would wait for the TC to discuss about it21:46
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eglynnI hasten to translate: "I ain't a lawyer"21:47
jd__that's it :)21:47
ildikov_jd__: IANAL either, I just thought that it is better to ask this before, than after :(21:47
eglynnyeah fair enough21:47
jd__yeah sure ildikov_ :)21:47
eglynnif the concern was obvious FUD-throwing I wouldn't be worried21:47
ildikov_jd__: what about the Cassandra BP of yours?21:48
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jd__ildikov_: it's not going to be more than what I posted for the time being21:48
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_nadya_Looks like I need to create demo of HBase to show that it works...21:48
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ildikov_jd__: ok21:49
eglynnjd__: is mongo licensing on the TC agenda in the near term do you know?21:49
jd__eglynn: no idea21:49
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jd__ttx: ^21:49
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jd__#topic Periodic failures on the gate21:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Periodic failures on the gate (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:50
ildikov__nadya_: I just tried to ask about every option, I'm not against HBase :)21:50
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1297999 in ceilometer "gate failures due to tools/config/" [Undecided,In progress]21:50
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1268614 in cinder "pep8 gating fails due to tools/config/" [Critical,Fix released]21:50
ildikov_I included the latest bug report and an earlier one21:50
_nadya_ildikov_: :)21:50
jd__the failure is due to our inclusion of keystoneclient21:51
ildikov_I have a fix with two patch sets, the first fixed the ceilometer.conf.sample, the second one currently deletes the from tox.ini21:51
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jd__the thing is that this config file should be built at compile/installation time and not checked into git21:51
ildikov_the second one was the suggestion from gordc21:51
jd__I think it's better to have the gate fails than an out of date conf21:51
jd__or find a way to stop putting this file into git21:52
ildikov_nova just did the same thing and including the into tox.ini21:52
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jd__ildikov_: so they're not putting the sample into git now?21:52
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ildikov_jd__: I meant that they removed this from tox21:52
eglynnsurely the gate failing stops everything in its tracks?21:52
jd__eglynn: yes21:53
gordceglynn: yep. everything is blocked21:53
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eglynnwould not regenerating until RC1 be acceptable if we know no *new* config is added by any remaining icehouse patches?21:53
jd__so it's either the developers are blocked from time to time, or the users have crappy sample configuration files21:53
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jd__eglynn: it messes badly the diff most of the time :(21:53
ildikov_jd__: tox.ini is the following in case of nova: #link
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jd__ildikov_: I see21:53
jd__they went backward on that21:54
jd__can't blame here – I'm the one responsible for the check_uptodate in the first place21:54
gordcthis happens more than i like. i like not checking sample to git but doesn't that mean we're just going to remove it from tox.ini as well?21:54
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jd__the point was to make people stop puting these default files in git, but it seems it didn't help :D21:54
gordci'd be game on turning it off for rc1 but i guess we'll eventually need to sync it up.21:55
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ildikov_jd__: lol :)21:55
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jd__good with me21:55
eglynngordc: yep, /me thinking also pragmatic short-term disable to drain the queue21:56
jd__I vote for whatever works the best21:56
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* gordc already +2 turning it off patch.21:56
jd__#topic Open discussion21:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"21:57
jd__we have 3 minutes left if anything21:57
ildikov_gordc: cool, thanks :)21:57
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_nadya_any good news :)?21:57
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jd__doesn't look so :)22:00
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jd__not yet at least22:00
ildikov__nadya_: it seems that the good news is there is no more bad one :)22:00
eglynn_nadya_: ... well Ireland beat France at the rugby, does that count as good news? ;)22:00
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_nadya_eglynn: hehe :)22:00
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* jd__ is not sure22:00
ildikov_eglynn: \o/ :)22:00
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eglynn... /me had to get the dig in somehow ;)22:01
eglynn... 20 years of hurt and all that22:01
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Wed Mar 26 22:01:42 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:01
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openstackMinutes (text):
jd__happy hacking fellow stackers22:01
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