Tuesday, 2014-04-08

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openstackstatusNOTICE: All of the project infrastructure hosts are being restarted for security updates.00:21
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yamahata#startmeeting neutron/servicevm05:06
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  8 05:06:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.05:06
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.05:06
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_servicevm'05:06
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yamahataseems lonely meeting, so just brief update only.05:06
yamahata#topic status update05:06
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yamahatanot much progress. still debugging before code publishing05:07
yamahatawrote documentation on dividing the blueprint into smaller elements05:07
yamahata#link https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/14dvV3S9Eph2z-auk34I_Ftld-lHA3VMoyNWAPRTeWgE/edit#slide=id.p05:07
yamahatawrote oslo.messaging proxy05:08
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yamahata#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Oslo/blueprints/message-proxy-server05:08
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yamahatasecurity should be taken care of05:09
yamahataNeed to add more on security05:09
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yamahatathat's all from me05:10
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"05:11
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  8 05:11:15 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)05:11
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-04-08-05.06.html05:11
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-04-08-05.06.txt05:11
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-04-08-05.06.log.html05:11
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sc68calHello everyone13:58
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sc68cal#startmeeting neutron_ipv614:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  8 14:00:44 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6'14:00
sc68cal#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-IPv6-Subteam#Agenda_for_April_8th Agenda14:00
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sc68cal#topic blueprints14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:01
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sc68calSo - real quick on this one, since I don't know if Mark has e-mailed the announcement yet for neutron-specs14:01
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sc68calso polish up your RST syntax and get ready to submit blueprints through the new workflow once it is announced.14:02
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xuhanpsc68cal, will the blueprint be reviewed and approved just like code?14:03
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sc68calxuhanp: I believe so. That was one of the things mentioned when the Nova team proposed it14:04
sc68calcurrently it is difficult to review BPs on launchpad14:04
sc68cal<sarcasm> There's no -1 button </sarcasm>14:04
xuhanpsc68cal, got it. Thanks14:04
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sc68cal#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=ipv614:05
sc68cal( Sorry for running this meeting tightly, my latent Type A Personality has resurfaced )14:06
sc68calhence the agenda and such :)14:06
sc68calanything else for Bp's - or should we move on to code reviews14:07
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sc68cal#topic code review14:08
*** openstack changes topic to "code review (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:08
dzyuxuhanp: what about our support code about ipv6 mode in CLI?14:08
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xuhanpdzyu, it has been -2'ed by Mark14:09
dzyuit should be one BP14:09
sc68calI can explain that one - there's a patch that they're working to get merged for Icehouse that hides the IPv6 attributes14:09
sc68cal#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85869/ Hide ipv6 attributes for Icehouse14:09
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sc68calSo they'll merge it - and when the stable/icehouse branch is cut they'll revert14:10
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xuhanpsc68cal, that's fine since we only support provider IPv6 after all, right?14:10
sc68calThey're saying that it's going to be only a couple hours where that commit will be active14:10
sc68calthen they'll revert14:10
aveigaso which modes do we officially support at this point with those patches disabled?14:11
sc68calAt this point - none14:11
aveigait might be useful to nail them down for official use docs14:11
sc68calI'm working on rebasing the work done by dzyu and xuhanp to allow provider RAs14:12
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sc68calbut the good news is we got the sec group RA logic merged - big props to Xuhanp14:12
xuhanpsc68cal, thanks! I didn't expected that was able to be merged :-)14:13
baoligood job, xuhanp14:13
xuhanpthanks, baoli and shshang !14:13
sc68calShixiong has been sick with the flu, I reached out to him and will probably try to pair up wiht him on his patch14:14
shshangwell deserved14:14
sc68calIt's a big patch - we may want to look into splitting it and passing out the chunks14:14
shshangthanks, sc68cal14:14
shshangthat's a good idea14:14
sc68calthat way they can't -1 them all ;)14:14
sc68calhard to hit a moving target ;)14:14
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sc68calDo we have any bugs to discuss - or should we go straight into open discussion? I'm really interested to hear baoli's item on the agenda :)14:15
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sc68cal#topic open discussion14:17
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baoliok, I am setting up a ipv6 testbed and tried a few things indicated on the agenda14:18
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baoliI found that I have to use dnsmasq version 2.68 in order to make dnsmasq hand out IPv6 addresses to VMs14:21
aveigathat seems odd14:21
baoliwith ealier version, it says no address available14:21
sc68calYeah - I think we may need to bump MIN_VERSION for dnsmasq14:21
aveigaany particular reason why? I've been using dnsmasq for DHCPv6 for the past 4 years14:21
aveigaor was it 3? it's been a long time14:21
baoliThis is with the static mode14:21
sc68calbug #123333914:21
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1233339 in neutron "bump dhcp.Dnsmasq.MINIMUM_VERSION" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/123333914:21
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shshangthe default is 2.66, right?14:22
baoliI think that the earlier version works if it's the dnsmasq that allocates the address14:22
sc68calshshang: default is determined by the distro14:23
shshangI see. I am using Ubuntu 13.0414:23
sc68calbut I think we put a floor at 2.59, which is the MINIMUM_VERSION variable14:23
baoliI am runing ubuntun 13:10, and yes, 2.66 is the default14:23
aveigathat makes sense14:23
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sc68calaveiga and I are on 12.04 LTS14:23
shshangI did the same thing, download 2.68 and compile it on my network node14:24
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dzyudnsmasq 2.66 still have some problem about support SLAAC mode, I verify it in dnsmasq 2.6814:24
sc68calwe might need to check what cloud-archive PPA distributes14:24
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dzyudnsmasq 2.68 work well14:24
aveigadzyu: what issues in particular?14:24
aveigaSLAAC should work just fine14:25
dzyuin dnsmasq log, it can not support stateless and ra-only mode14:25
baoliaveiga, yes, slaac works with earlier version14:25
dzyuyes, it said it can work, but I found this problem14:26
aveigaslaac or stateless? because stateless implies DHCPv6 with the O bit set14:26
aveigaand those are conflicting14:26
aveigabecause ra-only means don't run the dhcpv6 server14:26
dzyura-only and stateless, dnsmasq will throw error14:27
aveigaright, because that's an invlaid config14:27
aveigara-only and slaac would be the valid config14:27
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dzyuOk, thanks for the reminder14:32
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sc68calbaoli: Do you think you could do a writeup on the ML for what you did for devstack?14:34
sc68caleither that - or fork vagrant_devstack and add what you did and add to the chef scripts14:34
baolisc68cal, will do that once I got a chance14:34
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baoliSo basically, with some work in devstack and host config, the ipv6 only control network would work14:35
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sc68calwhen you say control network, do you mean the API and management nets, not the network the instances run on?14:36
baolisc68cal, yes. I should say management network14:36
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shshangmanagement network only?14:37
baoliyes, use ipv6 only management network14:37
xuhanpbaoli, we also tested IPv6 only management network in our Lab. But we are not using devstack14:37
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xuhanpAnd we fixed some bugs in glance API and other component.14:38
sc68calwas that for all openstack components? That's big news - I know that there was some problems with SQLALchemy connecting to v6 mysql14:38
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sc68calthat got fixed during this cycle14:38
baolixuhanp, cool. Can you share your experience?14:38
xuhanpsc68cal, we opened bugs to sqlalchemy as well. And yes, it got fixed.14:39
dzyupython 2.6 have IPv6 urlparse issue, need notice14:40
xuhanpbaoli, we have our own install scripts for openstack deployment and we are moving to Chef.14:40
baolixuhanp, I see.14:41
xuhanpso nothing too fancy. We only try to make everything work by fixing problems we met.14:41
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sc68caldzyu: ugh.14:41
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xuhanpdzyu works on that and he is contributing to Chef. Actually there are several other guys in our team do that too.14:42
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dzyuopenstack commponent support IPv6 management network, I have fixed many such issue, you can search them in Community14:42
shshangxuhanp and dzyu, is the big related to the auto-installer, or MySQL?14:42
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baoliThe code seems to be ipv4 centric in terms of setting up config defaults, etc.14:42
shshangsorry, bug, not big14:42
xuhanpso sc68cal, when you mentioned Chef scripts, I think we are already doing that.14:42
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sc68calGotcha. The vagrant_devstack needs to move to v6 at some point too, but I think we're confined by what VirtualBox supports in host-only networking14:43
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xuhanpshshang, which bug you are talking about?14:44
dzyuabout mysql, but have been fixed14:44
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sc68calanyone have anything else to discuss? otherwise I can give everyone back 11 minutes14:48
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dzyuxuhanp: shshang said bug should be sqlalchemy14:49
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shshangI see. thanks14:49
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dzyuCurrently, openstack should be work well in pure IPv6 network, we have tested in Redhat 6.4.and 6.5, since not via devstack14:49
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shshangYou mean, all nodes communication via pure IPv6, right?14:49
baolidzyu, that's my impression too.14:49
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baolianother thing that I saw with shshang's patch was that with slaac mode in the subnet, openstack still allocates ipv6 addresses, and installs iptable rules with those addresses.14:50
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xuhanpshshang, yes. there can be no IPv4 address on management network14:50
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aveigabaoli: are those EUI-64 addresses though?14:50
aveigathat's intentional14:50
shshangxuhanp and dzyu, this is awesome14:50
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baoliaveiga, no, there are like ::1, ::2, etc.14:50
aveigaoh, that's a bug14:51
aveigafile it14:51
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shshangbaoli, please let me know the bug id so I can fix it.14:51
shshangthanks for bringing it up14:51
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baolishshang, sure.14:51
sc68calI think that's because we haven't landed the piece that assigns EUI64 addresses to ports14:51
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sc68calwhich should be addressed by this - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86044/14:51
shshangI thought dzyh's code should be in, right?14:52
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sc68calshshang: no, only the part that introduced the ipv6 utils was merged14:52
sc68calthe changes to db_base_plugin_v2 were not merged, hence the patch that I just created14:52
shshangOh......I see. That explains.....Let me take a look at my own testbed14:52
shshangBut still, baoli, please file a bug, or at least send an email to the ML. Let me take a close look14:53
baoliThis is not external RAs,14:53
baolishshang, sure14:54
shshangthanks, baoli14:54
sc68calbaoli: yes my commit message needs to fix that14:54
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sc68calit's for any time a subnet is configured with slaac or dhcpv6 stateless14:54
aveigabaoli: even internal RAs should be doing that, once the patch lands14:54
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baoliok, let me take a close look at the patch. and see if that's the issue I was seeing.14:55
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n0ano#startmeeting gantt15:00
openstackn0ano: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  8 15:01:06 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-04-08-14.00.html15:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-04-08-14.00.txt15:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-04-08-14.00.log.html15:01
n0anosc68cal, tnx15:01
n0ano#startmeeting gantt15:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  8 15:01:29 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gantt'15:01
n0anoanyone here to talk about the scheduler?15:01
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bauzas_On my phone with limited access15:01
* johnthetubaguy is lurking15:02
n0anowe'll try and make it quick today (as I jinx things)15:02
n0ano#topic forklift effort15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "forklift effort (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:02
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n0anomain item is reviewing the BP proposal15:03
n0ano#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82133/15:03
bauzas_johnthetubaguy helped me15:03
n0anoI think this is getting close, so if people could take a look at it that would be great15:03
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n0anobauzas_, you've been mainly driving this, do you need anything specific?15:04
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bauzas_We are trying to identify the scope of the change15:04
johnthetubaguywould be good to see if people agree with whats suggested15:05
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n0anoOK, we're all in violent agreement, let's see what the review comments come up with15:05
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bauzas_johnthetubaguy: I have some remarks about your patchset15:06
bauzas_Will do in the patch15:06
johnthetubaguycool, what you thinking? generally?15:06
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bauzas_there are a few details to spend time on, but the most of it is good to me15:07
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n0anobauzas_, blame your mobile :-)15:08
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n0anoOK, let's move on15:09
n0ano#topic Atlanta scheduler sessions15:09
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* doron wondering about the BP15:09
bauzas_will propose a new patchset15:10
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n0anoin addition to the ones we mentioned last week I saw a new one:15:10
n0ano#link http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/4515:10
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bauzas_This one was already raised last week :-)15:10
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n0anotitle - Reservation and Scheduling resources in OS15:10
mspreitzYes, we should revisit the API discussion for holistic scheduling15:10
n0anobauzas_, my bad, I didn't remember it and wondered if anyone knew anything about it.15:11
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bauzas_that's originating from the Climate incubation request15:11
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bauzas_where TC told us to see what bits of Climate can be shared and how15:12
mspreitzand it runs into the larger discussion that has been rumbling along15:12
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n0anoOK, I wanted to be sure everyone knew about all the sessions so we can get critical mass for the discussions15:12
bauzas_well, it tends to be discussed for Juno target15:12
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doronn0ano: is there a pad with all proposals like we had in HK summit?15:13
bauzas_Not yet15:13
doronIIRC we also aggregated several BOFs.15:13
bauzas_Until they get validated15:13
doronright, I guess to early now.15:13
n0anodoron, there is a list of proposed sessions at http://summit.openstack.org/15:13
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doronn0ano: I'm aware of it. I was thinking of scheduler related sessions and bofs15:14
mspreitzwill we do Nova unconference sessions again?  I liked them15:14
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bauzas_don't know the eta for validating15:14
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n0anodoron, we don't have a separate gantt track per se, just keep an eye on scheduler related topics15:15
doronn0ano: will do, thanks,.15:15
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n0anomspreitz, I'm sure there will be an unconference, I find that attendance at those can be a little spotty15:15
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bauzas_n0ano: worth it to put in ethetpad so we keep track ?15:15
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n0anobauzas_, way too organized but a good idea, let me put one up15:16
n0ano#action n0ano to setup etherpad with scheduler related Atlanta sessions15:16
n0anoodd, why didn't #action do anything - oh well, I know what I'm doing15:17
doronn0ano: thanks. this will help me focus...15:17
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bauzas_Do we have a wiki placeholder ?15:17
doronmaybe bauzas_ propose a new patch set as #action?15:17
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bauzas_n0ano: It created an action15:17
n0anobauzas_, what do you mean, it's easy to create a wiki page, what did you have in mind15:17
bauzas_We need to keep track of the etherpad utl15:18
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n0anogiven that it's easy to update wiki15:18
n0anoscratch that, fat finger15:19
doronjust fyi guys, in HK we had- https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IceHouse-Nova-Scheduler-Sessions15:19
doron(still alive btw)15:19
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n0anodoron, tnx, I think I'll use that as a tempate for Juno15:19
doronn0ano: sure. just checking my memory....15:19
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n0anobauzas_, I think we need to create an offical gantt top level wiki page, with links to appropriate stuff, let me think about it.15:20
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bauzas_Place me an action15:20
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bauzas_I already did that for Climate15:21
n0anobauzas_, you want to do the wiki?  - NP15:21
n0ano#action bauzas_ to create top level gant wiki page15:21
bauzas_I I'll take Climate wiki as pattern15:21
* n0ano is a great believer in creative plagiarism15:21
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n0anoOK, moving on15:22
doronAKA The fine arts of copy-paste...15:22
n0ano#topic opens15:22
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n0anoanyone have anything new for today?15:22
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toan-tranI have a question on Instace Group API15:23
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n0anotoan-tran, go for it15:23
toan-tranthere's a good progress in the blueprint15:23
toan-transome parts are delayed to Juno15:23
bauzas_Does it need a nova-specs ?15:23
toan-tranbauzas_: not mentioned15:24
toan-tranin the dashpad15:24
mspreitzBTW, I am interested in making a heat resource-type for that.15:24
bauzas_Worth asking johnthetubaguy15:24
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toan-tranI wonder if we have discussion on it at the session15:24
toan-tranthere will be Nova API 3.0 and Gantt API15:24
toan-tranit cross my mind when we discussed the anti-affinity in the mailing list15:25
n0anotoan-tran, you can always propose a session, if it doesn't get approved we can think about bringing the issue up somewhere else15:25
toan-trann0ano: I'm afraid I have to leave on Friday :(15:26
bauzas_or discuss it within the Gantt API session15:26
toan-transo I cannot propose any session15:26
n0anobauzas_, that was my idea for `womewhere else'15:26
toan-tranI think that would be better to insert it into nova api 3 or gantt15:26
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toan-tranbauzas_: what do you think, does it fit to gantt?15:27
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n0anotoan-tran, your call, I'd proposal a session and ask theirry to move it if it gets scheduled for Fri15:28
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bauzasSorry got disconnected15:28
toan-trann0ano: thanks, that'd be great, will do that15:28
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n0anobauzas, toan-tran last question was what do you think, does it fit to gantt?15:29
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n0anoseems appropriate to me15:30
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bauzasImho yes15:30
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bauzasprovided that's a pure placement request15:31
toan-tranbauzas: yes it is :) mostly affinity & anti-affinity15:31
doronaffinity is usually about it...15:31
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mspreitzwe do more than that in our placement work15:31
mspreitzbut I'm lost, how did we get onto placement?15:32
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toan-tranmspreitz: the instance group API provides the interface to create instance group :)15:33
toan-tranmspreitz: but then the scene behid it is always group dpeloyment15:33
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mspreitzI envision evolution there of the breadth and depth of policy that can be associated with a group15:33
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mspreitzWe have some policy types that take parameters15:34
mspreitz#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/PolicyExtension15:34
bauzasMy concern is about the timeline15:36
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mspreitzI would not expect everything at once15:36
mspreitzI expect, hope for, evolution15:36
n0anowell, sounds to me that this will be ripe for a separate session to talk this things over15:36
bauzasGantt Api is not planned to be here by Juno15:36
bauzaswe need to split out first15:37
mspreitzyes.  Split is prior to other work15:37
n0anobauzas, indeed, not as a separate API yet, for Juno it'll just be a copy of the current Nova API15:37
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bauzashard work15:37
n0anothat's why they pay us the big bucks :-)15:38
toan-tranCan anybody  raise debo_dutta ? He should be the right guy to say about it :)15:38
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bauzasthe best would be to port client interface to Pecan15:38
mspreitzI have been sending some email, with no response15:38
* mspreitz wonders what Pecan is15:38
* n0ano mspreitz +115:39
toan-tranmspreitz: +115:39
bauzasNot something to eat :-)15:39
bauzasA wsgi controller15:40
bauzasFor defining Rest interfaces15:40
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n0anogiven we've come up with what, 2 APIs so far, do we really need something like Pecan then?15:41
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doronok. Guys I need to drop off. Will look for the meeting notes. cya soon...15:42
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bauzasAnyway, too early to be discussed15:42
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n0anobauzas, NP15:42
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bauzasbut porting the existing Nova Api is much more work than creating a new one15:43
n0anobit of administrivia, I'm out next week (internal company conference), bauzas can you run the meeting?15:43
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n0ano#action bauzas to chair meeting on 4/1515:44
n0anoOK, unless there are any last minute opens?15:44
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n0anothen I'll thank everyone, talk to you later15:45
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:45
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  8 15:45:15 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:45
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-04-08-15.01.html15:45
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-04-08-15.01.txt15:45
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-04-08-15.01.log.html15:45
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mspreitzdang, that ended fast15:45
toan-tranmspreitz: some regret? :)15:46
mspreitzI was hoping to prod people to look at my discussion of the evolutionary step from sequential to simultaneous scheduling15:46
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n0anomspreitz, sorry about that, topic for email/next week maybe?15:46
mspreitzI am talking about email that I already sent to the ML15:47
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* toan-tran looks at evolutionary15:47
n0anoyeah, that's a problem, I'd definitely bring it up next week then (and re-prod the ML)15:47
toan-tranmspreitz: can you post the link? I'm interested, too.15:48
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mspreitz#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-April/031865.html15:48
toan-tranmspreitz: thanks15:49
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boris-42#startmeeting rally17:14
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  8 17:14:22 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:14
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:14
boris-42hughsaunders ping17:14
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rally)"17:14
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'17:14
boris-42marcoemorais ping17:14
boris-42aswadrangnekar  ping17:14
boris-42eyerediskin ping17:14
boris-42stannie tzabal  ping17:14
aswadrangnekarboris-42 hello17:15
boris-42msdubov ping17:15
boris-42#topic gates & functional tests17:15
*** openstack changes topic to "gates & functional tests (Meeting topic: rally)"17:15
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boris-42eyerediskin could you pls say what did you done?)17:16
boris-42eyerediskin and what are current goals17:16
xwizard_Hi there :)17:16
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msdubovboris-42 hi17:16
boris-42xwizard_ hi =)17:16
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boris-42kun_huang hi17:16
kun_huangboris-42 hi17:17
eyerediskincurrently i work on rally-gate-jobs blueprint17:17
eyerediskinone job was added (rally-scenarios)17:18
boris-42eyerediskin so could you pls elaborate what we are going to do on these gates17:18
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boris-42eyerediskin cause I am sure that not everybody knows=)17:19
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eyerediskincurrently we have non-voting jobs which tests rally installation on ubuntu-12.04 and centos-617:19
eyerediskinthis jobs is about to be voting soon17:19
eyerediskinalso we have non-voting rally-scenarios job, which run all scenarios from samples directory17:20
boris-42eyerediskin seems like it's voting?17:20
eyerediskinno way17:20
kun_huangeyerediskin it works now, all scenarios?17:21
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eyerediskinomg it is voting >_<17:21
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marcoemoraisboris-42: pong17:21
eyerediskinkun_huang: not all. currenly it skips large-ops scenarios17:21
boris-42marcoemorais hey there meeting time17:21
boris-42eyerediskin does it runs anything?17:21
boris-42eyerediskin where are the results?)17:22
boris-42eyerediskin or some logs?17:22
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boris-42eyerediskin cause actually my patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85732/ doesn't work properly..17:22
boris-42eyerediskin and seems like check-rally-scenarios passed..17:22
eyerediskinboris-42: im not sure it actually runs. i cant find any logs. im going to go deeper with this17:22
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boris-42eyerediskin did you ask somebody from infra?17:23
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kun_huangeyerediskin I think it could be cool that seeing scenarios output in log here http://logs.openstack.org/32/85732/4/check/check-rally-scenarios/62bb2ff/console.html17:24
msduboveyerediskin, boris-42 Btw how do we distinguish large-ops scenarios from other ones? Just manually set what should be skipped?17:24
boris-42msdubov there is special "if" condition in copy paste lol17:25
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boris-42So out future steps are:17:27
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boris-421) add tests of CLI into rally-install jobs17:27
eyerediskinboris-42: sorry some power outage was here17:28
boris-422) fix scenario gate to run actually all benchmarks (except large-ops)17:28
boris-42And we will think about how to test FakeCloud (so benchmarking rally with large-ops tests)17:28
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boris-42eyerediskin do you have anything to add ^17:29
boris-42or does somebody has any questions?17:29
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boris-42btw marcoemorais ^ how is your patch? with preprocessing ?17:29
eyerediskintests for CLI are almost done17:29
eyerediskinhere is the patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85738/ feel free to -1 %)17:30
marcoemoraisboris-42: patch is not working17:30
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boris-42marcoemorais what patch?17:31
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marcoemoraisboris-42: preprocessing patch that we discussed on friday17:31
boris-42marcoemorais could you share what you have17:31
boris-42marcoemorais WIP17:31
boris-42marcoemorais I would like to take a look probably I'll be able to help a bit with it17:32
marcoemoraisboris-42: ok17:32
boris-42marcoemorais thanks17:32
boris-42#topic rally info command17:33
*** openstack changes topic to "rally info command (Meeting topic: rally)"17:33
boris-42msdubov please could you share your ideas with us?17:33
msdubovboris-42 yep17:34
msdubovI've prepared a doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MUufsxGYGc7GTmaN_GogbpVR_sXds6VSI6K3R9ybEmY/edit?usp=sharing17:34
msdubovOne important point to decide is what should be the actual syntax17:34
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msdubovSo pls take a look at this doc and tell what you think17:34
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msdubovI present there two possibilities for that17:35
boris-42msdubov pls allow commeitng17:35
boris-42msdubov for everybody17:35
boris-42msdubov cause how can I comment?17:35
msdubovboris-42 done17:35
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boris-42msdubov nice doc17:39
boris-42hughsaunders marcoemorais eyerediskin thoughths ?)17:40
boris-42tzabal ^17:40
msdubovboris-42 hughsaunders tzabal eyerediskin  What would you prefer? "Sructured" syntax or the "query-based" one?17:42
marcoemoraisboris-42: seems like this is a souped-up version of pydoc?17:42
tzabalboris-42 for the work of msdubov, i like better the query based mode, but also structured is good too17:42
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marcoemoraismsdubov: user would use rally info XXX to copy-paste stuff out of the docstrings?17:42
boris-42marcoemorais actually to understand17:42
boris-42marcoemorais what it has in rally17:42
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msdubovmarcoemorais, e.g. you see all those sample configs in /doc17:43
boris-42marcoemorais "rally info context" returns short explanation of what the hell is it17:43
boris-42how to use it and what context you have17:43
msdubovmarcoemorais, You can then just call "rally info ExistingCloud" to understand what that means17:43
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boris-42marcoemorais such kind of smart explorer that allows you to avoid diving into the code17:44
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marcoemoraisok I get it17:44
boris-42marcoemorais btw I think that query one is good but we should exited "search" stuff17:45
boris-42msdubov ^17:45
boris-42okay I think everybody agree that it is missing stuff?)17:46
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msdubovboris-42 What do you mean by "exited"?17:46
msdubovboris-42 So that it also will handle missspelling or smth else?17:46
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boris-42msdubov to allow to find by part of name info that you are looking for17:47
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msdubovboris-42 Agree17:47
boris-42msdubov "nova benchmarks"17:47
boris-42msdubov like that=)17:47
msdubovboris-42 But this will make the implementation a bit more involved, as I wrote in the doc17:47
marcoemoraismsdubov: docstrings are usually for developers so that is where I would hesitate… is there going to be a way to suppress certain parts of the docstrings from being shown to users?17:47
msdubovboris-42 But I also think it should be there17:47
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msdubovmarcoemorais, I'm actually not sure we will have very complex docstrings...17:48
boris-42msdubov yep I think it's not so complicated to implement17:48
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boris-42marcoemorais ^17:48
msdubovmarcoemorais, But in any case there is always this "first line" of docstrings17:48
msdubovmarcoemorais, Which is a short summary17:48
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boris-42marcoemorais first line could be used in table when we have multiple results17:48
boris-42msdubov e.g. "nova"17:49
boris-42marcoemorais ^17:49
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marcoemoraismsdubov boris-42: let us look at an example https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/benchmark/scenarios/nova/servers.py#L4417:49
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marcoemoraismsdubov boris-42  $ rally info NovaServers17:49
marcoemoraisemits: Tests booting an image and then listing servers.17:49
boris-42marcoemorais agree not perfect title..17:50
marcoemoraiscorrection: rally info NovaServers.boot_and_delete17:50
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marcoemoraismsdubov: yes17:50
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boris-42marcoemorais in case of rally info NovaServers17:50
boris-42it should show dosctrings of NovaServers17:51
boris-42+ probably list of all benchmarks17:51
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boris-42in NovaServers17:51
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tzabalso on this example a new docstring for the class?17:51
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msdubovtzabal, Yes17:51
tzabalmsdubov ok17:52
msdubovtzabal, The work on this blueprint will actually involve rewriting docstrings/adding new ones17:52
msdubovtzabal, But not only docstring17:52
tzabalmsdubov this is very good17:52
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msdubovtzabal, We will have to retrieve a list of benchmark scenarios17:52
msdubovtzabal, which are marked by @base.scenario()17:53
boris-42msdubov there is already method for that17:53
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msdubovboris-42, great17:53
marcoemoraismsdubov boris-42: one thing that I think might be useful is if we emitted a prepopulated config on standard out.. let me exaplain17:53
marcoemorais$ rally info NovaServers. boot_and_delete_server  —template-config17:53
marcoemorais{ "NovaServers.boot_and_delete_server": [ … }17:53
boris-42msdubov yep that one imho is great17:53
boris-42marcoemorais **17:53
boris-42marcoemorais btw it can be done via doc/sampels17:54
msdubovboris-42, marcoemorais Agree, will add to the doc17:54
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boris-42marcoemorais so just show from sample stuff17:54
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marcoemoraisboris-42: typically I have to edit the scenario config and then keep those edited scenarios somewhere else; if we could emit the scenario config as templates to be edited by the user (like a Vagrantfile) that would be good17:55
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boris-42marcoemorais you may propose some syntax for that?17:56
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boris-42seems like that time is up17:58
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boris-42we should move to rally chat17:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  8 17:58:33 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:58
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-04-08-17.14.html17:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-04-08-17.14.txt17:58
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-04-08-17.14.log.html17:58
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* ayoung sneaks in and looks around17:59
dolphmayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76: ping17:59
lbragstaddolphm: hey17:59
bknudsondolphm: hi18:00
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dolphm#startmeeting keystone18:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  8 18:01:49 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:01
dolphm#topic Reminder: Design summit session proposals open until April 20th18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Design summit session proposals open until April 20th (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
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dolphmso, we've got 21 proposed sessions the last i counted, and i'm aware of two more that are on their way to being proposed18:02
dolphmwe have 8 timeslots at the summit.18:02
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bknudsonwe need a longer summit18:02
dolphmbknudson: i don't think we do :)18:02
dolphmby my count, we should be able to fill those 8 nicely, by merging them18:03
dolphmseveral proposals are near dupes, or closely related18:03
jamielennoxi haven't proposed anything related purely to keystoneclient (or seen anyone else do it) - i take it we are expecting one/18:03
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dolphmjamielennox: please do!18:03
dolphmjamielennox: i'm planning for *something* client side to be one of those 818:03
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morganfainbergooh we got 8 slots?18:04
jamielennoxdolphm: i have less that is related purely to keystoneclient rather than all clients, but i'll propose and people can add to it18:04
bknudsonis one of the slots for the deployer feedback?18:04
gyeejamielennox, keystoneclient seems like a good fit for cross-project, from integration standpoint18:04
dolphmwe should also have some dedicated space in the dev-lounge type area, so we can take certain topics there as well for smaller discussions18:04
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dolphmbknudson: so far, yes18:04
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dolphmgyee: cross-project track deadline is this week18:05
dolphmfor proposals18:05
ayoungclient, tokens, Federation (and LDAP) , Hierarchy (to include Policy),18:05
jamielennoxgyee: i did one that was cross-project: http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/20518:05
ayoungbascially, I made a bunch of proposals that were supposed to be buckets18:05
jamielennox(i need to do a better job of wording it)18:05
ayoungDidn't make a client one18:05
dolphmif there's not actual items that need to be designed / discussed, it won't be worthy of a session18:06
ayoungTokenless Keystone Operations  that one was for gyee18:06
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gyeeclient * middleware, especially middleware, auth_token is screaming out for refactoring18:06
dolphmso a bucket alone isn't worth consideration without meaningful topics to fill it18:06
dolphmgyee: "refactor" isn't something we need to fuss over at the summit, either18:06
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bknudsonwe were going to pull middleware to its own repo?18:06
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jamielennoxgyee: oh there is plenty to do on the client - it's just what really needs discussing18:06
jamielennoxbknudson: that came up somewhere recently as well18:07
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morganfainbergbknudson, was goign to bring that up specifically at the end of the meeting today since we're early in a cycle we could do it.18:07
dolphmbknudson: there's clearly some desire to - i'd be worried that we'd have to create a fourth repo as well, for things like cms18:07
ayoungdolphm, right...those were the ones I knew we had something to talk about...feel free to close mine if there is a comparable other submission that is more explicit18:07
gyeedolphm, jamielennox, I would like to see auth_token not putting stuff in the headers anymore18:07
gyeeshould stash them into the environ18:07
dolphmwe'd end up with keystone, python-keystoneclient, keystonemiddleware, and keystonelib or something18:07
bknudsondolphm: I don't think we've got a circular dependency18:07
morganfainbergdolphm, that isn't a bad breakdown imo18:08
ayoungpython-keystoneclient,  would be deprecated, as we are moving to unified cli?18:08
bknudsonohh, I guess keystoneclient would import middleware until it's moved.18:08
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morganfainbergbknudson, ++18:08
dolphmeverything would depend on keystonelib in that breakdown18:08
dolphmayoung: not yet; it'd be deprecated by python-openstacksdk if anything18:08
jamielennoxdolphm: what would keystonelib be as seperate from client?18:08
ayoungalthough I might suggest that keystonelib should be keystoneclient, if only to keep the git history18:08
dolphmjamielennox: keystone.common.cms for example18:08
jamielennoxbecause if it's session and auth plugins then it's more generic that that18:09
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stevemarsounds like we're having the client design session now :)18:09
lbragstadwouldn't python-keystone client still be required since it is used but the unified client?18:09
dolphmpretty much - this is a worthwhile summit session :)18:09
gyeestevemar, yes sir indeed18:09
ayoungjamielennox, anything that is common between client and keystoneserver I would think18:09
morganfainberglbragstad, yes, but it wouldn't be the same as the CLI it currently is18:09
jamielennoxok - i'll put up a summit session for client today18:09
dolphmlbragstad: yes, if/until it's replaced by python-openstacksdk18:09
dolphmjamielennox: thanks18:09
lbragstadmorganfainberg: dolphm ok, makes sense18:10
ayoungWe also have cross-project summit sessions, right?18:10
dolphmayoung: yes18:10
ayounghttp://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/95  is Python OpenStack SDK.18:10
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gyeedolphm, who make the decision on x-project sessions? PTLs?18:10
ayounghttp://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/205  is Jamies18:10
ayoungpython-*client standardization18:11
dolphmgyee: good question, i'm not sure18:11
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nkinderayoung: there's also the one that jamielennox already mentioned (http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/205)18:11
dolphmgyee: i don't even have access to moderate keystone sessions yet - it's still too early18:11
ayoungnkinder, beat ya too it18:11
jamielennoxI'm hoping/assuming that there will be plenty of -sdk talk, i still haven't figured out what they want to be18:11
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dolphmgyee: probably, yes, though18:11
bknudsonjamielennox: from the latest discussion sounded like the current clients just in one lib18:11
gyeedolphm, k, please update us if you have more info on that, I'll try to dig around too18:12
dolphmjamielennox: i think "everything to everyone" is the answer :-/18:12
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ayoungWe might be able to punt on a Keystone specific talk in favor of "Hierarchical Multitenancy in Every Project"18:12
bknudsonopenstacksdk has a loonnnggg ways to go18:13
dolphmgyee: in the mean time, comment on sessions you're interested in, or not. feedback on summit.openstack.org (and the mailing list, etc) is really important for the whole selection process18:13
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jamielennoxbknudson: yea i have been following but they are talking dolphm's everything approach and i don't think it's sustainable18:13
gyeedolphm, thanks, will do that this week18:13
dolphmthat's also why it's too early to make too many guesses about what sessions will be accepted/merged/rejected -- there's not enough feedback yet for many sessions, and there are yet-to-be-proposed sessions to consider as well18:14
dolphmon that note ...18:14
dolphmmoving on :)18:14
dolphm#topic Reminder: Review Icehouse release notes18:14
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dolphmjust a quick reminder to take a pass at:18:15
dolphm#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Icehouse18:15
dolphmthere's been a few things added, and there's a few TODO's noted that need to be fleshed out18:15
dolphmif you're familiar with those features, contributions very much welcome :)18:15
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dolphmmost of them are in Upgrade Notes18:15
ayoungdolphm, do contribution have to pass a bknudson code review?18:15
dolphmayoung: yes?18:15
topolonly ayoungs...18:16
morganfainbergtopol, ++ :P18:16
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bknudsonI will probably fix speling errors if I see them.18:16
dolphmi'll fix wiki syntax :P18:16
gyeebknudson, urban dictionary words ok?18:16
ayoungany TODOs that are egregious?18:16
topolso is there just a place toa dd comments on the wiki or we all have edit access?18:17
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dolphmayoung: see for yourself? nothing crazy IMO18:18
ayoungdolphm, yeah, nothing jumped out at me....18:18
dolphmtopol: everyone should have edit access with an LP account18:18
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dolphmanyway, let's talk about something more exciting!18:18
dolphm#topic Security review18:18
topoldolphm, K18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Security review (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:18
dolphmnkinder: o/18:18
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dolphmnkinder: have a link to your mailing list discussion? i'm coming up empty handed18:19
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nkinderdolphm: sure...18:19
dolphmnkinder: thanks!18:20
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dstaneknkinder: i noticed that the wiki page was showing the source of algorithms as passlib. is that intentional? passlib actually uses the hashlib implementation if I remember correctly18:20
dolphmhopefully everyone saw this, this is obviously a worthwhile effort :)18:20
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ayoungdstanek, that rings true18:20
nkinderdstanek: PassLib does both18:20
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nkinderI read the code, and they implement their own rc4, etc.18:21
nkinder...but they do use hashlib too18:21
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dstaneki don't think they implement sha* though18:21
nkinderdstanek: correct18:21
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bknudsonfor the "Potential improvements" -- we're not planning to do those for icehouse?18:22
lbragstadand http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/common/utils.py#n12518:22
ayounghttp://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/common/utils.py#n117    salted sha is ugly, but necessary for the LDAP simple bind approach.  Ideally, that would be replaced, but I think the only viable alternative is Kerberos18:22
gyeenkinkder, is this an OSS initiative?18:22
nkinderdstanek: perhaps it's not clear, but I was trying to point out that sha1 is used by PassLib (not necessarily implemented by)18:22
ayoungbknudson, we are plannign on imporvindg from Eventlet to Apache HTTPD18:23
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nkinderok, let's talk about it at a high-level instead of specific crypto details18:23
dolphmdstanek: passlib does use hashlib, for example https://code.google.com/p/passlib/source/browse/passlib/handlers/md5_crypt.py18:23
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nkinderI'm trying to get projects interested in gathering and maintaining this sort of info from release to release18:23
morganfainbergnkinder, ++18:24
lbragstadnkinder: ++ oslo has a bunch of stuff too.. which may or may not get used in other projects18:24
nkinderThis is useful for OpenStack deployers of course, but it's also really good from a development standpoint18:24
dolphmnkinder: is there any reason why this shouldn't be tracked in tree, and code reviewed along with the impacting changes?18:24
ayoungldap_hash_password  ... I assume that was only called if you create a user via the LDAP backend, which is not someth8ing I would expect a real deployment to do, but I've been surprised before.18:24
nkinderInstead of just saying "we should all do this", I audited Keystone myself first to show how I think it might look.18:24
bknudsondolphm: in doc/source ?18:24
dolphmbknudson: yes. nkinder: wiki sounds like a decent place to get these docs moving, but we can enforce their maintenance in gerrit18:25
nkinderdolphm: in tree is fine too18:25
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bknudsonI like that18:25
lbragstadme too,18:25
nkinderdolphm: so first I want to see if there is interest from each project.  Sounds like there is for Keystone.18:25
topolnkinder++ that is an important initiative youa re driving18:25
nkinderSecond is what form should the info be kept in (in git, wiki, etc.)18:25
bknudsonpeople are always asking for this info18:25
dolphmnkinder: absolutely, it sucks not being able to refer people to docs like these :-/ (until now!)18:25
stevemarwiki seems good enough for now18:25
nkinderanyone can screw with the wiki, so it's not the best place for authoritative info18:25
nkinderyeah, good for now though18:26
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dstanektree is good for some stuff - but if you continue down this track we'll have a while bunch of attack vectors we need to document18:26
dolphmdstanek: that's an interesting point...18:26
bknudsonthere's another effort for the threat analysis18:26
ayoungSecurity bugs got in Launchpad until we have a fix, obviously18:26
nkinderyeah, this is more of a high-level instead of a full threat analysis18:26
dolphmthis effectively becomes a release deliverable if it's in-tree, rather than a best-effort community thing18:26
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dstanekso far this is really just code level implementation, but i can see whating to document lots of other stuff too18:27
nkinderdolphm: well, I'd like to make it a release deliverable18:27
lbragstadI think it would be important to keep it simple right off the bat, description of why we need the encryption, names of the hashes used, maximum key length/strength, is it end user configurable?18:27
stevemardolphm, good point18:27
ayoung"go in"  man my typing is worse than usual today18:27
nkinderlbragstad: +118:27
lbragstadsomething in a chart form18:27
bknudsonit'll be available here if in doc/source -- http://docs.openstack.org/developer/keystone/18:27
nkinderKeep it simple so we can actually acheive the goals18:27
dstaneklbragstad ++18:27
ayoungIt would be nice if we had ethercalc for charts18:27
lbragstadsomeone can look up if pycrypto is used, and if an end-user can bump up the key strength18:27
dolphmlbragstad: keeping it simple in the long run is important for maintainability :)18:27
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topolnkinder do we have any provenance information on what crypto libraries are used and who dveeloped them?18:28
nkinderThe tables shoudl really say what is used, and why (by what feature)18:28
stevemardstanek, even if it's in tree, it's not like we don't neglect the docs :(18:28
dstanekstevemar: :-)18:28
nkindertopol: all we really have is what I've collected on that page so far18:28
topolnkinder, K18:28
ayoungwhat about something under Anne Gentle's team instead of under keystone?  Seems like a cross product doc effort?18:28
nkinderayoung: for publishing, that would likely work18:29
bknudsonthere's a security guide...18:29
dstanekin-tree would probably be fine, but i can definitely see things that audit logs and other artifacts out of tree18:29
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dolphmayoung: they're already responsible for publishing keystone/docs18:29
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nkinderayoung: but each project should own the info on their own project and keep it up to date as code changes are made18:29
ayoungthen lets do it in tree18:29
dolphmnkinder: ++18:29
lbragstadnkinder: right,18:29
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nkinderWe can then use that info to populate the Security Guide if we want to provide an overview of used crypto18:30
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nkinderok, so in tree it is.  Any suggestions on format?18:30
dolphmdoes anyone have any criticism of what's available on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Icehouse/Keystone currently?18:30
nkindermarkdown?  something else?18:30
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nkinderdolphm: I do :)18:30
dolphmnkinder: docs/ uses RST already18:30
nkinderdolphm: some things are missing or need to be filled in more18:30
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nkinderdolphm: but we can discuss those on IRC outside of this meeting18:31
dolphmnkinder: i'd like to see Potential Improvements filed as Wishlist bugs and tagged with 'security'18:31
lbragstadnkinder: when do we plan to have a format up?18:31
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dstanekdolphm: great idea - i'll start posting those after this meeting18:32
dolphmnkinder: you can then link this doc to https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bugs?field.tag=security - rather than duplicating those in the doc18:32
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nkinderSo the other thought is that we can use the security-impact keyword to flag when a code change requires an update18:32
dstanekidea are flooding in :-)18:32
nkinderdolphm: +1 on filing the improvements.  Those were just items that I had ideas on, so feel free to chime in with others.18:32
dolphmnkinder: i'd rather the code change include the doc update AND include SecurityImpact ;)18:33
nkinderlbragstad: I can work on a format, though I'm not familiar with RST18:33
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nkinderdolphm: yes, both in one patch would be ideal18:33
bknudsonnkinder: here's the link I use -- http://docutils.sourceforge.net/rst.html#user-documentation18:33
lbragstadnkinder: ok, cool. I can help out with that too.18:33
nkinderdolphm: then we can -1 changes that skipped updating the doc.18:33
dolphmnkinder: ++18:33
nkinderlbragstad: that would be much appreciated18:33
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nkinderdid most of my audit look accurate to everyone?  Is there anything important that I missed?18:34
bknudsonlbragstad: we've got scans for the other projects, too?18:34
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nkinderbknudson: not yet.  I need to go around and evangelize that...18:34
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dstaneknkinder: only thing confusing to me where what implementation was used for algorithms18:35
dstanekother than that i thought it was great18:35
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nkinderbknudson: I'm really hoping to get buy-in from everyone such that this can be a part of our normal release process18:35
dolphmhrm, i also just realized this encompasses both keystone and keystoneclient (and some of this would be moved to keystonelib if that existed)18:35
nkinderdstanek: any suggestions on how it could be represented to be more clear?18:35
ayoungnkinder, as I mentioned before, the "Self signed certificates" approach needs to die18:35
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nkinderdolphm: yeah, they are kindof wrapped together18:35
dstaneknkinder: i can't tell if we are using three different sha1 implementations or if there are three different wrappers to the same implemenation18:36
stevemardolphm, whys that an issue?18:36
dolphmnkinder: this one wiki page should be split into python-keystoneclient/docs and keystone/docs then -- and probably cross-linked to each other since they're so closely related18:36
ayoungstevemar, auditability18:36
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nkinderdstanek: ah, yeah.  The wiki table made that odd.18:36
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dolphmstevemar: because a client change shouldn't require docs in the keystone/ repo to be updated, for example18:36
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ayoungyou want to make sure that, if there is an known issue in an implementation, you've updated the vulnerability18:36
nkinderdstanek: it's all just sha1 (hashlib), but it was for threee different usages18:37
stevemarwe'll probably have a lot of duplication18:37
ayoungupdated beyond the vulnerability18:37
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nkinderstevemar: in what regards?  between projects?18:37
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stevemarif we split the wiki contents to keystone/docs and keystoneclient/docs18:37
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nkinderstevemar: yeah, that's why I avoided it and just called out the source files.18:38
nkinder...but it's going to have to be split if we keep the docs in tree18:38
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stevemari guess so :)18:39
bknudsoncan we backport doc updates?18:39
nkinderok, well next steps seem to be to work on the formatting, then we can decide how to organize it between repos.18:39
dstaneknkinder: yeah, something like that works18:39
dolphmbknudson: yes18:39
dolphmbknudson: not sure if they'd be consumed that way though18:39
ayoungdolphm, rc2 window is closed, right?18:40
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topoldolphm, whats the criteria for backporting doc updates? Just critical; stuff?18:40
morganfainbergayoung, yes18:40
dolphmayoung: yes18:40
nkinderwe can use wiki for Icehouse, and in-tree for Juno18:40
ayoungdolphm, when do we expect rc2 announced, then?18:40
nkinderIcehouse will largely be going back and reviewing what we've already done anyway18:40
bknudsonI don't know if we can get to havana keystone developer docs.18:40
dolphmtopol: there's no precedence in keystone, afaik - but i'd happily propose doc corrections & additions to stable-maintenance18:40
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dolphmayoung: it was released this morning18:41
bknudsonhttp://docs.openstack.org/havana/ just links to http://docs.openstack.org/developer/keystone/18:41
ayoungneed to catch  up on email18:41
dolphmayoung: i meant to mention it at the beginning of the meeting, but forgot to put it on the agenda18:41
annegentlebknudson: mostly the keystone docs are common and embedded18:41
dolphmayoung: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack/2014-April/006468.html18:41
stevemarbknudson, then no need to backport!18:42
annegentlebknudson: http://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide-cloud/content/ch-identity-mgmt-config.html18:42
ayoungSo....that is probably Icehouse....18:42
annegentlebknudson: oh sorry you're talking about dev docs18:42
dolphmannegentle: ++18:42
bknudsonannegentle: well, we had discussed whether to put the security notes in dev docs or other docs.18:43
nkinderannegentle: yeah, this is security guide related as well.18:43
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dolphmannegentle: we're discussing backports for openstack/keystone/docs to stable/ branches, for the purpose of documenting security-relevant topics18:43
nkinderannegentle: we're talking about having some security info from each project feed into the Security Guide.18:43
dolphmannegentle: (for docs that don't exist in-tree yet, just on the wiki)18:43
annegentleah you won't get point-in-time publishing of dev docs18:43
annegentlenkinder: cool, great.18:43
dolphmannegentle: are you aware of any distros or anyone doing anything with stable/ dev docs?18:44
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annegentledolphm: the only stable/relname docs are in openstack-manuals and it's just the install guide and the config ref. We could add the security guide though, just a matter of deciding on it18:44
nkinderannegentle: I can chat with you offline about the idea to get your recommendations on the best way to do that from a format perspective (it's sort of the same thing we need to figure out for OSSNs).18:44
annegentlenkinder: sure18:44
nkinderannegentle: ok, I'll shoot you an e-mail on it.18:45
bknudsonI like the dev docs because it's easy to update with the code.18:45
bknudsonalso, we can look at them on github18:45
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nkinderbknudson: +1.  It will help to keep it in sync18:45
annegentlebknudson: but security affects all of openstack and is more of an integrated project set of issues18:45
dolphmbknudson: ++18:45
annegentlebknudson: nkinder: prioritization and discipline around it keeps it in sync18:46
nkinderI do want to see what other projects think as well, as they may have different ideas18:46
bknudsonannegentle: well, I also like the security guide because it's going to be consumed outside of developers18:46
dolphmnkinder: if they have better ideas, please share :)18:46
dolphmnkinder: definitely bring this up at the barbican meeting as well :D18:46
nkinderdolphm: will do!18:47
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nkinderI'm happy to see all of the interest in it!18:47
dolphmsounds like we have some agreement here for now, and there's nothing left on the agenda for today, so:18:47
dolphm#topic open discussion18:47
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dolphm12 free minutes18:48
morganfainbergQuick plug18:48
morganfainbergsql collapse: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/78169/ this needs some feedback on the fk/constraint/index naming etc18:48
bknudson+395, -475818:48
dolphmmorganfainberg: i wanted to run db_sync 36 with and without that patch on mysql & postgres prior to +2'ing -- have you done either of those and compared sqldumps?18:48
morganfainbergi'd like to implement consistent naming across the board, which requires a migration to sync all prodiuction deployments, but i want to get it right in that review as the base18:49
dolphmbknudson: auto +218:49
morganfainbergdolphm, i did that when developing this.18:49
morganfainbergdolphm, but... the FK / constraint / etc names are difference18:49
morganfainbergand with SQLA and postgres there are oddities that require explicit naming18:49
dolphmmorganfainberg: if you have a diff handy, could you paste one?18:49
morganfainbergdolphm, i'll need to re-run it, the diff came pre icehouse18:50
morganfainbergdolphm, so i'll re-run and post the diffs18:50
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jamielennoxi have a request for some client reviews please - they are stagnating again, we are back to the point where there are a few difficult ones to process so come find me if you are unsure of any reasoning18:50
topolmorganfainberg, whats the magic that allows you to compress so much???18:50
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dolphmtopol: dropping support18:50
jamielennoxre-reading that it was way to gentle: do client reviews!18:50
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morganfainbergjamielennox, i expected less gentle this time :P18:50
ayoungmorganfainberg, did you run that against livetests for both mysql and postgresql?  bknudson can one of you IBMers confrim the DBishness of that smooshing?18:50
dolphmtopol: for essex and folsom18:50
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topoldolphm, thats awesome. so much less code to look at18:51
dolphmtopol: and less to maintain!18:51
morganfainbergayoung, i had no issues with the migrations working under mysql and postgres, that seems like all the _live_tests do18:51
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gyeejamielennox, I'll take a look18:51
topoldolphm, I may actually look in that folder now :-)18:51
gyeeI also commented on the configurable hash algorithm review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80401/18:51
dolphmtopol: this also means faster tox run times :)18:51
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morganfainbergayoung, but before i went too much further i wanted to snag people for the FK / ix / ixu naming18:51
dolphmtopol: ha18:51
ayoungmorganfainberg, yeah....need to take another look at getting out sql unit tests running against the real databases again18:51
gyeewe need to embed the algorithm into token data18:51
bknudsonayoung: I'll try it out with my db2 setup.18:51
dstanekhas anyone run the unit tests against mysql? i was having a bunch or problems with it18:52
morganfainbergdolphm, not much faster. we don't migrate for most tests now we use sqlite reflection in memory18:52
ayoungmorganfainberg, FK naming should be in a DBMS specific manner, I think18:52
ayoungdstanek, I have not tried in over a year18:52
bknudsongyee: I'll take a look at embedding the algorithm.18:52
bknudsongyee: why is that necessary?18:52
morganfainbergayoung, except that we can't use reflection if needed to interact with it then18:52
topolwe need to keep a record of the patch that replaces a huge chunk of code with a smaller replacement. And that person gets a prize every release18:52
nkinderjamielennox: you need more of a mean-streak... ;)18:52
morganfainbergayoung, mysql would be _ibfkXX posgres is _fkey, etc18:52
gyeebknudson, otherwise, it will break rolling upgrade18:52
dolphmbknudson: you don't seem to be impacting /v3/OS-REVOKE/ ?18:52
ayoungmorganfainberg, yes, and its ug-ga-lee....18:52
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morganfainbergayoung, a consistent naming convention would be good.18:53
topolSort of like the hourly high poker hand at the card room18:53
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bknudsondolphm: I haven't looked at OS-REVOKE... will do18:53
morganfainbergayoung, and there are times reflection use is important (notably in some migrations)18:53
dolphmerr, that's not where the revocation *list* lives...18:53
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bknudsondolphm: does it have token hashes?18:53
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ayoungmorganfainberg, I'm ok with reflection use, I was not the one that protested it.18:53
morganfainbergayoung, i know.18:53
dolphmbknudson: /v2.0/tokens/revoked is completely undocumented - ayoung: do we expose the token revocation *list* on v3?18:53
dolphmayoung: or just events?18:53
ayoungBTW...if we change the token hash algorithm...all old tokens should be revoked....18:53
bknudsonthere's no revocation list on v3... we've got the certs18:54
ayoungdolphm, I thought just v2....let me confirm18:54
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morganfainbergayoung, but anyway, i want something we can programatically interact with / validate if we choose.  anyway topic to be continued on gerrit review post meeting18:54
dolphmbknudson: if there's no existing docs to update, go ahead and +A the client-side review18:54
ayoungdolphm, V3 as well:  http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/tree/keystone/auth/controllers.py#n45718:54
bknudsondolphm: I'm going to look into the hash algorithm in the tokens... does the middleware care?18:55
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bknudsonit tries to hash the token right away to see if it's in the cache18:55
ayoungbknudson, yes it cares18:55
gyeebknudson, ^^ what he says18:55
bknudsonbut this is before it's even validated it.18:55
ayoungbknudson, might not be a real issue18:55
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bknudsonthis is before auth_token has validated the pki token18:56
bknudsonthe revocation list will have the hash algorithm18:56
ayoungif the middleware hashes the token...it would be wierd for anything other than a local memcached look up.  In theory, middleware could  skip PKI validation and do a remote verification18:56
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gyeebknudson, middleware should get the algorithm from token data, not configurable18:57
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ayoungthat would take an explicit setting of a config value.  So if it hashed to MD5, but the serve was doing sha256, token validation would fail18:57
dstanekayoung: just ran against mysql and had over 2200 failures (can't create federation tables and unicode won't work)18:57
bknudsonok, middleware gets a token hash -- it doesn't know what algorithm was used.18:57
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ayoungdstanek, ran what against mysql?  morganfainberg 's patch?18:57
dstanekayoung: the unit tests on master18:58
gyeebknudson, you can tell be the length18:58
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nkinderayoung: the hash algo. mismatch would be solved if we do what gyee suggests though, right?18:58
ayoungah...that might be as expected, dstanek but good to know....starting point for Juno cleanup18:58
ayoungnkinder, yep18:58
nkindergyee: you could, though that's a bit hackish18:58
bknudsonif middleware gets a token hash it validates against the server.18:58
ayoungnkinder, except that it would never fetch the revoc ation list18:58
bknudsonI don't think it cares about the hash then?18:59
ayoungthat is only done for PKI validation18:59
dolphmtime's up!18:59
gyeenkinder, if we only have to hash string, that's best we can do :)18:59
nkinderthanks alL!18:59
dolphmayoung: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-api-site/+bug/130460618:59
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1304606 in openstack-api-site "Identity API v3 OS-PKI extension is undocumented" [High,Triaged]18:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  8 18:59:34 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-04-08-18.01.html18:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-04-08-18.01.txt18:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-04-08-18.01.log.html18:59
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fungiinfra folks here for talky-times?19:00
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SergeyLukjanovmordred is here too, I think19:01
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fungii call it quorum. can haz19:01
fungi#startmeeting infra19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  8 19:01:17 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:01
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:01
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fungito start out, clarkb and i are trying to get through the heartbleed impact and reset a lot of account creds, so keeping this short will be in our best interest19:02
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
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fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-04-01-19.02.html19:02
fungijeblair delete puppet-dashboard.o.o server and dns19:02
fungii believe that has happened19:02
fungijeblair send revised repo rename list to tc19:03
clarkbDNS definitely happened19:03
fungianybody know if that happened?19:03
clarkbfungi: yes, I believe he started a thread about it19:03
* clarkb digs it up19:03
fungigood enough19:03
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clarkbhrm maybe not. The thread I see is from before the last meeting to the infra list19:03
fungibetter safe than sorry19:04
fungi#action jeblair send revised repo rename list to tc19:04
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funginibalizer propose change to lower puppetboard 'unresponsive' timeout to 30 mins19:04
nibalizerdone, merged19:04
fungithat got proposed, merged19:04
fungithanks nibalizer!19:05
fungimordred make an abbreviated projects.yaml with only projects using storyboard as their primary tracker19:05
fungistill a thing?19:05
fungimordred: if you're still around ^ (or krotscheck if you happen to know)?19:06
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krotscheckIt hasn’t happened yet to my best ability.19:07
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fungikrotscheck: thanks! good enough19:07
krotscheckto my best knowledge19:07
fungi#action mordred make an abbreviated projects.yaml with only projects using storyboard as their primary tracker19:07
funginibalizer write lp->storyboard migration script19:07
nibalizernot done19:07
fungineed any help with that? or should i be reviewing something already?19:07
nibalizeri haven't even gotten my dev storyboard up19:08
fungiokay, no rush19:08
nibalizermy first angular js app19:08
fungi#action nibalizer write lp->storyboard migration script19:08
fungiwe just carry forward19:08
nibalizerya sorry, if this is very pressing might not be for me, but i am making slow steayd prograess and having a fun time19:08
fungithat covers the action items from the last meeting19:08
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fungi#topic Dealing with puppet changes (jeblair)19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Dealing with puppet changes (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
fungii think this is the thing where we want to make sure that any large changes don't get approved without someone (doesn't have to be the approver or even a core) watching puppetboard to make sure it worked19:09
* mordred will do it - sorry - got busy19:10
fungiin case it's not, i'll leave it on the agenda for next week and jeblair can discuss whatever he wanted to discuss19:10
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fungianybody know whether that was indeed the case, or if we need to talk about anything with regard to it?19:10
SergeyLukjanovfungi, I think that I'm following this rule ;)19:10
nibalizerfungi: i dont know19:11
fungiSergeyLukjanov: i hope that i am, but i am also a very forgetful creature19:11
fungiokay, moving along...19:11
fungi#topic Using storyboard (jeblair)19:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Using storyboard (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:11
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nibalizerI have to step out, sorry19:11
fungii think we decided to start using storyboard for some smaller infra-related projects, but i don't think we've done so yet19:11
* nibalizer will read scrollback19:11
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SergeyLukjanovfungi, yup, that's a problem sometimes for me too ;)19:12
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fungidid anybody have any updates specific to this they wanted to impart?19:12
SergeyLukjanovfungi, we need to complete "make an abbreviated projects.yaml with only projects using storyboard as their primary tracker" first19:12
fungiSergeyLukjanov: okay, good to know. prerequisite19:12
fungithen that's probably all we have for updates on that topic19:12
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SergeyLukjanovit sounds like this action item == this topc19:13
fungiagreed. i'll leave it on the agenda for next week19:13
fungi#topic Project renames19:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Project renames (Meeting topic: infra)"19:13
krotscheckThere’s a patch to update task statuses as well, but I’m on that and a new patch should be up for review as soon as I get to an internet that opens gerrit ports.19:13
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fungithanks krotscheck!19:13
fungistackforge/barbican -> openstack/barbican needs to happen at some point... anybody know the timeline?19:13
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fungiis that one critical or just waiting for a convenient window?19:14
clarkbI haven't heard19:14
clarkbguessing convenient window19:14
fungiDinaBelova: any new word on the climate rename? was a new name chosen yet?19:14
SergeyLukjanovfungi, the same was done in several weeks after the incubation approved for sahara19:14
DinaBelovafungi, yep, it was chosen19:14
SergeyLukjanovfungi, it's still not checked by foundation folks :(19:14
fungiand the winner is...19:14
DinaBelovahave contacted with foundation..19:15
fungiokay, well, we'll pretend it's not chosen for now19:15
fungiuntil you get final approval19:15
SergeyLukjanovDinaBelova, the candidate is Blazar?19:15
DinaBelovathe best candidate was blazar, will hope it'll be the winner19:15
fungisounds good--i can't wait19:15
fungi#topic Fedora gate support (ianw)19:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Fedora gate support (ianw) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:15
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SergeyLukjanovfungi, it'll be great to combine barbican, climate and attic changes19:16
fungiianw: did you have some specific bits you wanted to talk about? i see clarkb and mordred added a couple sub-topics for it19:16
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fungiSergeyLukjanov: agreed19:16
ianwi added those on their behalf after a discussion on friday19:16
clarkbfungi: basically is it ok for us to ignore hpcloud 1.0 for fedora testing19:16
clarkbfungi: we cannot add our own images to hpcloud 1.0 and we need to build fedora images19:16
clarkbbecause no one has up to date fedora images for us19:16
clarkbso mostly looking for some consensus on what cross cloud compat is required for us to take on new testing19:17
SergeyLukjanovre attic, I don't see ay responses to the jeblair's follow up in tc ml - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-April/000608.html19:17
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fungii'm also a little fuzzy on what testing we would shift to fedora nodes, to avoid exploding the test matrix and quota burn unnecessarily19:17
clarkbfungi: ya, mordred suggested something like the postgres test, but I think it could be any of the more "fringe" tets19:18
SergeyLukjanovgood question re test matrix...19:19
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fungiokay, so the thought is that we could potentially start testing on fedora without exploding our node count and without effectively losing any existing test coverage19:19
SergeyLukjanovttx, evening19:19
fungihowever, there are also concerns around being able to switch from fedora20-fedora21 (for example) within minimal effort in the time between when one reaches end of support and the other is available for use19:20
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clarkbfungi: right, so my comment about that was we would need to have dib working then the people wanting to test on fedora would be responsible for updating dib19:21
clarkbfungi: if they don't we switch $test to ubuntults19:21
fungiand also there was the suggestion that we would consider dropping the requirement that we keep testing stable branches of openstack on the versions of fedora they were tested on at release time (which possibly means not supporting testing stable releases on fedora at some point in the cycle)19:22
fungigah, lag19:22
clarkbI think the fedora folks are ok with that because that version of fedora would not be supported either19:22
clarkbso testing on it isn't a big win19:22
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fungimainly because backporting bug fixes and reqs changes to stable so as to work on newer fedora is probably out of scope19:22
clarkbwhich makes this a concern on our side. eg are we worried about losing coverage of our stable branches19:22
clarkbfungi: exactly19:23
fungiand the work required to switch, say, postgres+qpid from fedora to trusty when the time comes19:23
clarkbfungi: we wouldn't switch19:23
clarkbwe would just drop the test19:23
clarkbwhich is why we would make it a more fringe tes19:24
fungithat feels like stable regressions waiting to happen19:24
clarkbat least that is what I would argue for19:24
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clarkbfungi: I agree, but they already happen in ways we can't keep up with19:24
fungithat is true19:24
clarkbfungi: so this doesn't really make the current situation better or worse19:24
ianwwhat if fedora tests ran on a separate cloud?  could that work19:24
ianwand have them as a separate test, so they can be dropped per the concerns above19:25
clarkbianw: no, anything in the gate needs multiple clouds19:25
fungimainly so that a cloud provider outage doesn't block our ability to test and merge changes19:25
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ianwwhat about only running a separate fedora job for certain projects ... mainly changes to devstack.  there's only a few of them per-day19:26
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clarkbianw: that should be doable. Similar to how tripleo testing happens19:27
fungianother alternative might be periodic bitrot jobs, though those have a tendency to bitrot, as irony would have it19:27
ianwstarting with that job, keeping it separate seems low risk19:28
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clarkbianw: so maybe we start there and avoid most of these layer 8 problems. Prove that it works then make it gating19:28
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fungiit seems like it might be worth investigating in that direction with more of a poc19:29
clarkbianw: should help the decision making around gating too especially if we can point at reliable test19:29
ianwyeah, exactly19:29
fungimaybe the existing fedora testing pleia2 and others have been doing have us pretty close to what we would need for that already?19:29
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ianwthis is what i've been doing with the redhatci19:30
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ianwsee -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86107/ for a comment example19:30
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fungiexcellent. i agree that if there's enough community support and donated resources to keep it running, and it's all free software, there's no good reason to turn down the additional qa we get from it19:31
ianwfedora has been quite stable with devstack changes, the job shouldn't be too much trouble19:31
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fungiwe just need to make sure our stability needs are met, and that we don't put ourselves in a bad position if that situation changes19:31
ianwbut long term i'd like the gate testing the stable fedora, and redhatci testing the "next" version so that the transition is easy19:31
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fungiianw: i think that's reasonable based on the current information we have19:32
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fungiany other opinions/input? next steps?19:33
clarkbnope I htink that is a good start19:33
clarkbwill give us a lot more data to work with19:33
fungiokay, so basically we'll see what transpires and reevaluate based on additional data19:34
fungiand in the meantime, acknowledge that it looks useful and promising19:34
fungiokay, enough of that for today19:35
fungi#topic public service announcements19:35
*** openstack changes topic to "public service announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:35
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fungiwe spent a good chunk of yesterday dealing with security updates19:35
fungi#link http://heartbleed.com/19:35
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fungianybody who reads bill's pundit's random computer blog probably knows about that, so no need to elaborate now19:36
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clarkbbut plan on it severely impacting infras ability ot get normal work done for a bit19:37
fungistill working on regenerating keys, credentials, passwords and so on in the wake of the security fixes getting applied yesterday, just to have an extra security assurance in case anyone did actually manage to leech sensitive data out of any servers19:37
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fungiand yes, we're notably absent from getting other things done, so sorry about that19:37
clarkbyup, some of these changes may have user facing impact as well.19:37
clarkbhowever we will announce those changes more formally if/when they happen19:38
fungicorrect. there will likely be further disruption with service restarts for new account auth data and such19:38
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fungi#topic Open discussion19:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:39
fungijust a reminder, i'm gone all next week and the week after, and won't be around in irc or reading e-mail19:39
clarkbhave fun!19:39
fungijeblair is busy this week at pycon (mordred: are you there/going too?)19:40
SergeyLukjanovfungi, have fun!!19:40
clarkbI will be out monday morning until my eyeball can read text again (I get a second round of eye dilation)19:40
rockygHi.  I'm with Huawei and we're exploring providing a nodepool to OpenStack, but I need a point of contact to get the prereq's figured out.19:40
clarkbrockyg: jeblair (who is flying to pycon right now) is the person to contact19:40
clarkbrockyg: you can ping him on irc and or send him email19:40
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rockygGreat!  will do.  Any idea on how many machines to start?19:40
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phschwartzI would like to propose for next week to start a small discussion point with infra in the meeting about the proposed Vinz review system.19:41
clarkbrockyg: I'm not sure if there is a lower bound but the flavor size we look at is ~4core 8GB nodes19:41
fungirockyg: i think we've been targeting a minimum quota sufficient to run 100 instances with 4 or 8 cores (depending on core speed) and 8gb ram each19:41
clarkbphschwartz: can you update the agenda with that? I will get you a link19:41
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phschwartzclarkb: will do19:42
rockygI'll email jeblair.  That way he can respond on his timeline.  The size is great info.  Thanks, again.19:42
clarkbphschwartz: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting19:42
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fungiokay, i think that's it for this week19:43
fungiyou all get 15 minutes back ;)19:43
fungithanks everybody!19:44
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:44
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  8 19:44:18 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:44
clarkbthank you!19:44
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-04-08-19.01.html19:44
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-04-08-19.01.txt19:44
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-04-08-19.01.log.html19:44
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ttxwho is around for the TC meeting ?19:59
ttxmarkmc, annegentle, mikal, mordred, jgriffith, vishy, markmcclain, jeblair, lifeless : around ?20:00
ttxjeblair is probably on a plane20:00
SlickNikhello there20:01
ttxOK we are 7 so we have quorum20:01
lifelessttx: mostly20:01
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ttxjd__, EEvans, hub_cap: does any of you have constraints and wants to go first ?20:01
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jd__I'm good20:02
ttx#startmeeting tc20:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  8 20:02:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:02
ttxOur agenda for today:20:02
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hub_capim fine w/ it too ttx20:02
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee20:02
hub_capim here for the full hr20:02
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ttxOK, let's do it in the agenda order then20:03
ttx#topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Gap analysis for Ceilometer20:03
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*** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Gap analysis for Ceilometer (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
ttxjd__: o/20:03
ttxSo the goal of this is...20:03
ttxsince we formalized and increased the level of what's required for graduation over the last cycle20:04
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ttxit's fair taht we look back at already-accepetd projects and make sure they comply20:04
jd__eglynn and I wrote something on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-integrated-requirements20:04
ttxWe did a number of those already (nova, neutron, cinder, keystone...)20:04
jd__which kind responds to most questions, we hope20:04
ttxnow on to ceilometer20:04
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-integrated-requirements20:04
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annegentlejd__: sorry I can't help do some editing, hope that's ok20:06
jd__hehe sure20:06
ttxMissing mission statement is a significant gap, because Ceilometer is really a project/program that could use one :)20:06
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russellbluckily there's a quick fix on that one20:07
eglynnttx: yep, I was hoping we'd crisp that scoping aspect up at summit in ATL20:07
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russellbseems QA and Docs sections have the other big gaps?20:07
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sdagueyeh, I think the QA capture is about right. I'm definitely concerned on how exposed things are in the gate today as we have pretty minimal testing.20:08
eglynnrussellb: +1 on QA, again planned to be a major focus for Juno20:08
sdaguea related question, just because it's exposed in the gate, is performance with the sql driver. I feel like we're at an uncomfortable ground of it being in tree, but not working great20:09
ttxI think the contributor base is sane20:09
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annegentleI'd like to see monitoring section beefed up in the Ops Guide with ceilometer first-class citizen20:10
jd__sdague: yep, I think it's something more precise we didn't capture in that etherpad because we focused on the big picture, but it's one of our concern20:10
devanandasdague: is the sql driver the default back end?20:10
russellbany plans for juno to pitch in on the docs side?20:10
eglynnsdague: yep, I wouldn't consider the sqla driver to be production-ready, yet the gate hinges on it20:10
devanandaeglynn: what is the recommended back-end then?20:10
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annegentleand ideally that RDO quick start could go into the upstream docs20:10
dhellmannwhere do things stand with feature-completeness in the storage drivers?20:10
eglynndevananda: mongo if you're asking my personal opinion20:11
sdagueeglynn: right, and I think we mostly did that on the ML, so I don't think we have to rehash it here.20:11
eglynndhellmann: (modulo the potential licensing issues)20:11
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vishyi’m definitely sad about mongo as the only viable option20:11
devanandaso then I should point out the same concern I had for Marconi w.r.t. non-apache-compatible back ends and lackign support for an apache-compatible one20:11
vishythere has been discussion work on cassandra/hbase which seems promising20:11
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sdaguedevananda: yeh, I think that's fair20:12
jd__yeah, all of that is nothing new20:12
dhellmanneglynn: is the sql driver feature-complete but non-performant?20:12
ttx#info Ceilometer gap: program mission statement20:12
ttx#info Ceilometer gap: Integration tests20:12
markmcdevananda, we've had a long thread about that, if we want to re-hash let's schedule a TC discussion about it20:12
ttx#info Ceilometer gap: documentation20:12
devanandamarkmc: no need to rehash. I just wasn't aware of that issue w.r.t. ceilometer20:12
eglynndhellmann: yes its much closer to full parity ... the major outstanding feature gap has been closed in Icehouse20:12
sdagueI think the concern was that sql backend was a requirement for graduation, but seems to not be keeping up20:12
dhellmanneglynn: ok, so closing that and then fixing the performance issues? I think some of the performance was hurt when the tables were normalized, but that's just a guess.20:13
ttx#info Identified concern: SQLA not recommended in production but still only backend tested in gate20:13
devanandamarkmc: i was only pointing it out since that seemed to be a preventatively-large gap for marconi's graduation20:13
russellbone of the post-graduation expectations we documented recently was integration with heat and horizon, if applicable.  what integration exists there?20:13
eglynndhellmann, sdague: yes the sqla performance gap will be targeted for Juno20:14
sdagueeglynn: great20:14
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eglynnrussellb: integrated with both, metering dashboard in havana, ceilo alarms for heta autoscaling20:14
annegentleis there any integration possibility with sahara (hadoop backend) being considered?20:14
jd__annegentle: not AFAIK20:15
SergeyLukjanovannegentle, sahara isn't installing managed db20:15
sdaguewhat's the story relative to stacktach? at one point I thought that was largely merging into ceilometer, but it seems to have become it's own stackforge project20:15
eglynnannegentle: there was some discussion in HK about using hadoop for generating roll-ups20:15
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annegentlejd__: not under consideration or unpossible?20:16
eglynnannegentle: but came to naught for Icehouse20:16
jd__branen: not under consideration :)20:16
annegentleeglynn: okay. I'm working through icehouse blueprints and saw hbase work so wondered20:16
eglynnsdague: re. stacktach, the RAX folks contributed persisting of notification payloads and an events API in Icehouse20:17
ttxany other gap we missed ?20:17
markmcI've heard of some discussion amongst operators that the TC should require projects to be seen to scale to production use before graduating20:17
markmcwith ceilometer used as an example20:17
eglynnannegentle: there is habse storage driver already in existence20:17
dhellmanneglynn: there's also a summit session to revisit the merge, iirc?20:17
markmchow would you guys have felt if we had required this?20:17
markmchow would you have gone about making that happen?20:17
eglynnannegentle: (and healthier than before as one of our new cores has taken it under her wing)20:17
markmcwould it have helped you in the long run?20:17
markmc(perhaps off topic)20:17
eglynndhellmann: yes that would be good20:18
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jd__markmc: it probaly helped focusing on some stuff than others20:18
eglynnmarkmc: it would have helped definitely in my opinion20:18
jd__+would have20:18
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eglynnmarkmc: ... and testing at scale is something we really need to attack20:18
markmchow would it have worked in practice, though?20:19
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eglynnmarkmc: ... but counter-factual history is not my strong suit ;)20:19
markmcdo you feel you would have been able to reach out to operators and have them test at scale?20:19
lifelessmarkmc: what does scale to prpduction mean ?20:19
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ttxOK, if we are done with the gap analysis, i'd like to give one week (and the new PTL being elected) to come up with a plan to address those gaps asap (ideally in Juno)20:19
markmclifeless, right20:19
ttx(the scale to prod is off-topic)20:19
eglynnmarkmc: ... I would like to have roped in some real operators to give us access to realistically sized gamma envs20:20
ttxand us discussing that plan20:20
markmcok, sorry - was with a view to potential graduation requirements in the future20:20
sdaguettx: agreed, but a good atlanta topic20:20
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ttxsdague: I want to make sure those topics are taken into consideration in design summit scheduling20:20
ttxso rough plan in one week20:21
ttxearly enough to translate into key design summit sessions20:21
ttxwhere details will be fleshed out20:21
ttxgap covering should be Juno's priority20:21
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eglynnttx: rough plan of the summit session needed to address the gaps identified above?20:21
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ttxeglynn: rough plan / set of blueprints you would implement in Juno to address those gaps20:22
ttxthat will revolve mostly around tempest and SQLA perf20:22
eglynnttx: understood20:22
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eglynnttx: makes sense, +120:22
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annegentleeglynn: jd__: and attend the cross-project docs session :)20:22
ttx#action Future ceilometer PTL to come up with rough gap covering Juno plan for next week meeting20:23
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ttxjd__: i'll let you communicate to gordon20:23
ttxthe threee of you should be able to come up with something20:23
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ttxany other comment on that part ? A gap we would have missed ?20:23
eglynnttx: yep, we can synch up with gordc tmrw20:23
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annegentlettx: I think we covered it20:24
ttxok then20:24
ttx#topic Bylaws subcommittee report: proposed changes to the OpenStack Bylaws20:24
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ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-April/000609.html20:24
ttxEEvans, zehicle: o/20:25
ttxThe Bylaws subcommittee at teh Board of Directors has been working on propsoed changes to the bylwas that affect the sections about TC20:25
EEvansMark is scheduled to present, but he's having difficulty logging in.20:25
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ttxthe link above has links to bylaws diffs20:25
ttxthere is a 15->18 diff and a 17->18 diff20:26
ttx15 being current state, 18 proposed state20:26
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ttx17 being the initial proposed changes that markmc sent us a few weeks ago20:26
markmcit's more than a little confusing to follow20:27
annegentlettx: zehicle: EEvans: are there changes to other sections (that we're ignoring for now) -- is this diff parceled out just for the defcore changes?20:27
markmcgithub have a new prose diff thing, right? perhaps we should try that :)20:27
ttxEEvans, zehicle: I read it, the only thing I found confusing was the language in page 820:27
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ttxlet me quote20:27
EEvansthese are all of the proposed changes.  But it's an early view ... still under discussion20:27
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ttx"After the OSP New Definition Date, the scope of the Core OpenStack Project which is an integrated release shall be determined as set forth in Section 4.13(c)(ii). "20:28
annegentleEEvans: ok thanks20:28
ttx"the Core OpenStack Project which is an integrated release" sounds very confusing to me20:28
markmcthe additions to 4.13 (page 9) are pretty confusing too20:29
ttxCore is a subset of the projects we commonly release in an integrated fashion20:29
mikalI don't see anything obviously wrong, but these documents are very long.20:29
dhellmannttx: that sentence sounds like it is missing some words20:29
EEvansshould we rephrase this??20:29
markmcttx, I think these changes are redefining Core to mean Integrated20:29
markmcttx, I *think(20:29
markmcEEvans, perhaps we should start by discussing what the goal is20:29
dhellmannEEvans: is that saying something about what portion of the overall project will be considered as core is going to be determined by section 4.....?20:29
markmcnot clear to me any more20:29
ttxmarkmc: ah?20:29
russellbmarkmc: +120:30
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ttxEEvans: depends on what that sentence was trying to actually mean20:30
dhellmannmarkmc: I didn't read it that way at first, but I do see what you're saying20:30
markmc"The Technical Committee shall propose a process or procedure to determine the scope of the Core OpenStack Project. The Board of Directors may propose modifications to such process or procedure but such modifications must be approved by the Technical Committee. After the Technical Committee has approved the final process or procedure for determining the scope of the Core OpenStack Project and the Board of Directors has approved suc20:30
markmch process or procedure, the Board of Directors shall set the date on which such process or procedure becomes effective and the first such date shall be defined as the OSP New Definition Date.  After the OSP New Definition Date, the Technical Committee may propose modifications to such process and procedure. The Board of Directors shall consider such modifications and may approve or disapprove them. If the Board of Directors approve20:30
markmcs such modifications, the modified process and procedure shall become the method for determining the scope of the Core OpenStack Project on the effective date set by the Board of Directors.  The process or procedure shall be described in reasonable detail in the minutes of the Board of Directors which approved it. After such approval, the Secretary shall post such description to the Foundation’s website. "20:30
markmcsounds to me to be about the process for defining the contents of the integrated release20:31
dhellmannyeah, I had a question about that section:20:31
dhellmanndoes the addition of the word “core” to section 4.13(c)(ii) change anything about adding non-core projects for incubation, or is that covered by the fact that we’re supposed to develop the process for adding core projects (which would include incubation)?20:31
EEvansSince Mark Radcliffe is leading this and is unable to log in, can we table this until the next meeting?20:31
ttxmarkmc: if Core = Integarted in that document, then we should just drop "Core" and just say "OpenStack project"20:31
markmcthat it's a TC controlled thing, but the board has to approve the process20:31
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dhellmannttx: the word "core" was just added to draft 18, I think20:31
ttxIf Core <= Integrated, then that sentence needs to be rewritten20:31
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markmcttx, I think that was what v17 did, but my concern was that gave the board more power over the contents of the integrated release than they have now20:31
markmcttx, or v15, sorry20:32
russellbyes that is what it sounds like20:32
zehicleyes, this is confusing20:32
annegentleEEvans: that might work best, having Mark Radcliffe here to guide20:32
zehicleI am also having trouble tracking version items20:32
dhellmannsomeone should write out what we want in english, and then we can translate it to legaleze20:32
ttxEEvans: I think Mark said he could not be there next week, though20:32
markmcis Mark Radcliffe the only one who can summarize the goal of these amendments?20:32
hub_capEEvans: he could log in via a web chat http://webchat.freenode.net/20:32
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zehiclemy understanding of the key issue is that there are some process changes that have the TC represent the community'20:32
dhellmannzehicle: that's my understanding of the intent, but that's not how I read the words that were written20:33
ttxhere he is20:33
zehicledhellmann, I agree withyou20:33
ttxMFR: welcome20:33
dhellmannso I think it's just a phrasing and language clarity issue20:33
zehicleI'm willing to circle w/ EEvans and Mark Radliffe to get translation20:33
zehicleI think that would be a good next step20:34
annegentleMy concern was the wording of "The Technical Committee shall propose a process or procedure to determine the scope of the Core OpenStack Project." in 4.13 c ii20:34
ttxzehicle: yes, we need to understand the goal. At this point the TC has full control on what it blesses and works on20:34
MFRThis is Mark Radcliffe, counsel for OpenStack Foundation. The changes are meant to keep the relationship between Board and TC the same but give both more flexbility20:34
annegentledue to proposal in progress with defcore20:34
annegentleMFR: welcome!20:35
ttxso TC can include anything in 'the integrated release'20:35
markmcMFR, could you summarize the goal of the changes?20:35
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ttx'Core' used to be the subset of those integrated projects that we want to place trademark rules on20:35
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ttxIs the goal to mix the two concepts ?20:35
markmcMFR, not just the goal as it relates to the relationship between the board and TC20:35
MFRThe goal of the changes is to implement the Defcore recommendation20:35
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zehicleMRF, I thought we were trying to get the process out of the bylaws and into the TC & Board management20:36
dhellmannMFR: I think we understand the goal, but the wording is causing some confusion20:36
markmcwhat is the Defcore recommendation?20:37
MFRThe current system depends on specific modules being in the Core, we are proposing to allow the TC and Board to set up a process to do it rather than naming modules20:37
dhellmannso the bylaws won't have to change as we change that definition20:37
ttxMFR, zehicle: so "Core" and "integrated release" are still two separated concepts ?20:37
dhellmann(of the process or of core)20:37
ttxwe were confused by ""After the OSP New Definition Date, the scope of the Core OpenStack Project which is an integrated release shall be determined as set forth in Section 4.13(c)(ii). ""20:37
MFRYes core and integrated release are different20:38
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ttxI'm no native sepaker but 'which is an integrated release" in that sentence looks misplaced20:38
dhellmannok, that sentence ttx quoted conflates them20:38
russellbttx: agreed20:38
zehicleperhaps we should not have the word "core" in the bylaws at all20:38
dhellmannI think "which" should be replaced with "that" there -- it's a common misuse of which20:38
ttxzehicle: well that would be even more confusing20:38
zehiclettx, not if we actually define things clearly20:39
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dhellmannof course, with my rewording it makes 4.13(c)(ii) apply to the integrated release, when that section has core all over it20:39
markmc"the Technical Committee shall have the authority to determine the scope of the Core OpenStack Project subject to the procedures described below"20:39
markmcthat's pretty weird too20:39
zehiclebut I think the word "core" can be excellent - if we define20:39
ttxzehicle: I agree, but just removing the word 'core' won't be enough to define things clearly20:39
markmcour thinking previously was the board was responsible for the definition of "the Core OpenStack Project"20:39
markmcwhy change the bylaws to make it under the TC authority?20:40
annegentlemarkmc: right, that was my sense of it too, that it flipped20:40
ttxand the TC was responsible for the content of the intgerated openstack release20:40
russellbit's not clear in this that core is some subset of integrated20:41
markmcit only really makes much sense to me if we're redefining "Core OpenStack Project" to me "Integrated Release"20:41
markmcwhich apparently isn't the intent20:41
zehiclemarkmc, the DefCore is moving towards a test/capability defined definition20:41
ttxyes, I read it that way too. Core is still a subset of integrated but now it's also defined by TC20:41
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dhellmannis "integrated release" covered by section 4(b)?20:41
ttxdhellmann: integrated release doesn't appear in bylaws20:42
dhellmannsorry, 4.13(b)20:42
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markmczehicle, ... test/capability defined definition of "Core OpenStack Project", right ?20:42
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ttxdhellmann: it's a community thing, not a foundation thing20:42
markmczehicle, why would that definition be under the authority of the TC?20:42
ttxdhellmann: it's the stuff that our community works on and that the TC (the representation of those contributors) blasses20:42
zehiclemarkmc, it's not according to the DefCore process20:42
dhellmannyes, but 4.13(b) says we have the "authority to determine the scope of the OpenStack Project" without qualification for core or not, so would that cover our ability to classify things as integrated or not?20:42
annegentlethe use of "the Core OpenStack Project" uses Core as a collection and Project as a collection. That's not the way we currently think/talk about core or projects. Are the definitions changing then?20:42
zehicleso I think that there's something to work out20:42
ttxdhellmann: that would drag it into the bylwas20:43
zehiclebut Designated Sections are TC domain and that could also be covered by the language20:43
dhellmannttx: because maybe the bylaws don't need to care about integrated?20:43
markmcdhellmann, integrated release is behind "The management of the technical matters relating to the OpenStack Project shall be managed by the Technical Committee"20:43
ttxdhellmann: they don't need to care about integrated projects, yes20:43
markmcdhellmann, that's an earlier version of 4.13(b)20:43
MFRThe existing bylaws define Core and the additios and deletions are proposed by TC and decided by Board. The changes were meant to let TC and Board adopt other procedures such as testing20:43
markmcdhellmann, v17 turns it into "the scope of the Core OpenStack Project"20:43
dhellmannok, so what I'm trying to say is that if other sections of the bylaws cover the integrated release, and the new 4.13(c) is only about core, does that change the way we read it?20:43
ttxMFR: ok20:44
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ttxSo the *intent* is to move the process for determining Core (in current bylaws, proposed by TC and approved by BoD), to an outside process proposed by the TC20:45
ttxso that gives us flexibility20:45
zehiclettx, yes.20:45
ttxIF that's the intent and we don't touch the ability for the TC to decide what goes in openstack releases (independent of "core" concept), then I'm good20:45
zehiclettx, my understanding was the the TC would proxy for community if the process needs to be changed20:45
ttxI just find some sentences (like the one I quoted) a bit confusing20:46
ttxI think the "which is an integrated release" should just be removed20:46
markmcI find this proposed role for the TC surprising20:46
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zehicleI think that key is that the bylaws would focus on the process not the result20:46
markmci.e. to be the one that proposes any modifications to the Core definition process20:47
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russellbmarkmc: would expect the process to be driven by the board, right?20:47
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markmcrussellb, as it is now, yes20:47
ttxmarkmc: arguably we did have that role in the original bylaws20:47
annegentlemarkmc: I was also surprised20:47
zehiclemarkmc, I believe it was the approach modications, not propose20:47
russellbhad the role of proposing additions/removals20:47
russellbnot defining the process used20:47
MFRThat is correct. We can remove "an integtrated release" if it is causing confuson20:47
zehiclenot approach, approve20:48
annegentlerussellb: the proposal of the process was not TC20:48
ttxmarkmc: the original bylaws said we were proposing projects and the BoD approved them. Now we are proposing the process to select them20:48
russellbttx: if that's the goal, why isn't the TC driving defcore?20:48
annegentlettx: ohh. okay that's helpful. Except we're not proposing the process in reality20:48
* russellb confused20:48
MFRYes, you are proposing the process20:48
annegentleMFR: my perception is defcore is the process proposal20:49
dhellmannyeah, defcore is a board subcommittee, isn't it?20:49
ttxso maybe this should be rephrased20:49
annegentledhellmann: yes20:49
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ttxDefcore propsoes and the TC approves20:49
MFRDefcore is a Board committee20:49
ttxat least that would match what happens20:49
MFRDefcore could become the process but we still need the bylaws change to give it that role20:50
zehicleMRF, so the board owns the process and the TC is the watchdog?20:50
ttxMFR: the bylwas change could state that the BoD (or one of its subcommittee) proposes a process, and that the TC approves it.20:50
ttxrather than the other way around20:50
ttxbecause that's what's actually happening20:51
russellbyes, i think that would be fine20:51
ttxzehicle drives the process proposal, and we comment/approve it20:51
markmcI'm not sure we have an approval role even now20:51
MFRNo, TC proposes the process and both TC and Board agree on it. The Board has the ultimate responsibility under DE law for these matters20:51
dhellmannrussellb: do you not want the TC to set up the process?20:51
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russellbdhellmann: that's not what has been happening the last year20:52
dhellmannrussellb: sure, but we're talking about the future20:52
ttxMFR: or defcore proposes, TC validates and BoD approves.20:52
ttxI think that's what's happening ^20:52
russellbwhat does "TC validates" mean20:52
ttxapproves first ?20:53
annegentlettx: yes. defcore may or may not be made up of only board members though, it's a subcommittee20:53
MFRWe could set it up that way if you want20:53
russellbttx: ok, just trying to clarify ... could have also meant "provides input that may or may not be taken into account"20:53
markmcif we replaced "defined core" with "defined our trademark requirements"20:53
dhellmannMFR: these bylaws changes describe something other than what we perceive current reality to be, so we're trying to understand the difference20:53
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markmcthen I think it would be pretty clear it's much more a board thing than a TC thing20:54
markmcthe TC can help if asked, maybe20:54
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markmcbut approval role ... doesn't really make sense to me20:54
ttx"technical validation" is what we've been doing on this so far20:54
russellbagree with that20:54
ttxshouting when it started not making sense with the reality on the ground20:54
dhellmannMFR: who wrote these bylaw changes? you, or several board members?20:55
ttxthe question is... do we need to do more ?20:55
markmcttx, anyone in the community is welcome to do that20:55
ttxI think the bylaws change were written in a way that didn't sound like the TC was robbed of its influence of core20:55
ttxbut I don't think we actually care if we lose our influence on core20:55
markmcI'd be more worried with us gaining a responsibility which didn't make sense for us20:56
ttxsince we specifically arranges "integrated release" separated from "core" to let the Board own "core"20:56
markmc(assuming it doesn't make sense for us)20:56
annegentlemarkmc: right that's my memory of the original goal as well20:56
dhellmannI liked the split we had, where we specified core code and the board specified core features.20:56
russellbyep, i liked the core vs integrated separation we did a long time ago.  i think the intent was to separate ourselves from the core bit for the most part20:56
MFRI wrote the changes. We are trying to preserve the role of TC but make the process for deterimining Core more fliexbile because we are moving away from Core defined by modules20:56
russellbi think it's possible we don't want the responsibility maintained here :)20:57
dhellmannMFR: ok, thanks for clarifying20:57
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ttxzehicle, EEvans, MFR: so if "core" is defined as a subset of the TC-defined "integrated release", then you can remove TC from determining "core" completely20:57
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russellbi want full control over the integrated release, but just participate in an advisory/consulting role on the core part20:57
russellbttx: +120:57
annegentleMFR: zehicle: are "modules" defined as our current idea of "programs"?20:57
ttxOnly 3 min left, we need to cover a few more points quickly20:57
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markmcttx, fair point ... except would need to define "integrated release" in the bylaws :)20:58
zehicleannegentle, the proposal I'd been working around was more about major functional areas20:58
russellbmarkmc: may be worthwhile to do that20:58
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dhellmannrussellb: ugh20:58
ttxmarkmc: "a list the TC gives out" ?20:58
markmcrussellb, indeed, may well be20:58
dhellmannit's hard enough to change the graduation guidelines now :-)20:58
ttxok, no time left20:58
MFRThe intent is not to reduce the authority of the TC. Modules in Core were defined by name in the orignal bylaws20:59
markmcttx, "here's what you can choose from" ? :)20:59
annegentlealso want to make sure everyone knows that Appendix 8 - Trademark Policy - is eliminated in v1520:59
ttxwe'll circle back on emails and maybe have a follow-up at a next meeting20:59
zehicleI'll take an action item to work w/ EEvans and MFR on a translation and clarify the issues raised20:59
annegentleso to me I interpret that deletion as "there will be just one way to use the mark"20:59
dhellmannannegentle: I hadn't noticed that, does something replace it?20:59
annegentleso that might be helpful to clarify for us as well20:59
ttx#topic Minor governance changes20:59
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ttx* Resolution blessing designated sections guidelines (https://review.openstack.org/84712)21:00
ttx* Add neutron-specs to the Networking program. (https://review.openstack.org/84489)21:00
annegentleno "built for OpenStack" ?21:00
MFRThe trademark policy will exist but right now we have "locked it down" and we are discovering that we need more flexibility21:00
ttx* Add the Kite key distribution service to programs.yaml (https://review.openstack.org/84811)21:00
ttx* Add mission statement to Cinder (https://review.openstack.org/84528)21:00
zehicleannegentle, we'll come back to that again - it was NOT my understanding except that we will have clearer commercial uses21:00
ttxThose 4 will all be approved if they reach 7 YES21:00
annegentlezehicle: okay21:00
russellbcross project summit proposals due in a couple days.  i'll follow up via email to organize a subset of the TC to put a proposed set of sessions together, and we'll bring it back to the full group for blessing21:00
ttx* Adds integrated release names to programs.yaml (https://review.openstack.org/81859)21:00
ttxsame here, but may need a few more iterations21:00
markmcannegentle, there was an email from lauren to the marketing list about a consolidation of trademark programs21:01
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ttxok, time is up21:01
markmcannegentle, separate from defcore21:01
annegentlettx: on that one, what did you think about not adding integrated-release: until it happens?21:01
annegentlemarkmc: okay to me the trademark use is the reason to define core?21:01
annegentlemarkmc: but I might be conflating21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  8 21:01:40 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-04-08-20.02.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-04-08-20.02.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-04-08-20.02.log.html21:01
hub_capsee ya next wk ttx :)21:01
markmcannegentle, yes, that's the purpose of defcore21:01
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ttxhub_cap: sorry we ran very long21:02
annegentlesorry hub_cap!21:02
markmcannegentle, this is about the trademark programs, though - it's implied those programs will use the outcome of defcore21:02
annegentlemarkmc: ok got it21:02
hub_capno worries, i got another wk to prepare annegentle ttx ;) shhhhh21:02
ttxthat was more useful than I thought21:02
annegentlehub_cap: go get some install docs done! :)21:02
ttxnext meeting21:02
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ttxdhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, stevebaker, david-lyle, markmcclain, hub_cap: around ?21:02
ttxbeloved icehouse PTLs21:02
annegentlettx: that's a little much :)21:03
hub_capheh soon to be former PTLs ;)21:03
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ttx#startmeeting project21:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Apr  8 21:03:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:03
* russellb sheds a tear21:03
* dhellmann sniffs21:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)"21:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'project'21:03
* markwash couldn't get past the first chapter of Beloved21:03
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting21:03
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dhellmannmarkwash: LOL21:03
ttx#topic Current RC status21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Current RC status (Meeting topic: project)"21:03
hub_capmarkwash: i couldnt get past the title21:03
ttx#info RC1 done, no RC2 expected at this point: Swift, Trove21:03
ttx#info RC2 done, no RC3 expected at this point: Keystone, Cinder, Ceilometer, Horizon21:03
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ttx#info RC2 in progress: Glance, Nova, Neutron, Heat21:04
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annegentlemarkmc: ghosts21:04
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ttxWe hope to have Nova and Neutron tomorrow, heat and Glance Thursday21:04
annegentleer markwash :)21:04
ttxIt shall take a pretty significant regression or unforeseen fuckup to do a RC321:04
ttxbut then, there always was21:04
annegentlettx: snort21:04
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* ttx puts $1 in the swear box21:05
ttxQuestions on the RC process ?21:05
ttxFWIW the icehouse PTLs are not disappearing on Friday with election results21:06
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russellbgo until final icehouse release yes?21:06
* hub_cap suspects ttx's swear box is quite full21:06
ttxThey are the icehouse cycle PTLs, so they finish the work :P21:06
annegentlettx: is every project open for juno?21:06
ttxannegentle: yes21:06
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dolphmand new PTL's effectively take over on master?21:07
ttxdolphm: in theory yes21:07
dolphmor at least, free to transition21:07
annegentle#info Didn't really see many doc catchups in the feature freeze period21:07
annegentleSeems like release notes are being worked21:08
hub_capttx can u re-link the release notes page?21:08
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* hub_cap needs to get started w em21:08
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Icehouse21:08
markmcclainannegentle: did you see the email I sent you?21:08
ttxyes release notes seem to come up nicely21:09
ttxanything else on that topic ?21:09
ttxguess not21:10
hub_capthx ttx21:10
ttx#topic Security audit of projects/releases21:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Security audit of projects/releases (Meeting topic: project)"21:10
ttxnkinder: o/21:10
nkinderHi all.21:10
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* markwash looks nervous21:10
ttxtoday of all days21:10
russellbttx: ha21:10
nkinderI'm trying to get an effort going around gathering security related info for each project/release21:10
russellbhere to disclose openstackbleed?21:10
annegentlemarkmcclain: sorry I need more context? I don't see one21:11
nkinderthis provides some background for later reading - http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-April/032046.html21:11
ttx#link Security audit of projects/releases21:11
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-April/032046.html21:11
nkinderBasically, I'd like to capture commonly asked security info such as what crypto algorithms are used, what crypto implementations, and how sensitive data is handled.21:12
russellbsounds like a good idea21:12
nkinderHere is an example I put together for Keystone - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Icehouse/Keystone21:12
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ttxnkinder: so the challenge is to keep it current, I think21:12
nkinderThe idea is that each project dev team would be responsible for keeping it up to date.21:12
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ttxgathering it shall not be too hard, keeping up to date.. ;hmm21:12
nkindermaintenance is definitely the big concern21:12
dolphmttx: ++ i'd love to have this in-tree, and kept up to date with the code21:12
devanandankinder: is there substantial interest in having this also for incubated projects (eg ironic)?21:12
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nkinderdolphm and I discussed it on the keystone meeting today, and there were some good ideas21:13
markwashnkinder: not sure if this is actually on topic, but how can we promote better code / review practices for common security issues? I know as a reviewer I've missed some pretty obvious security problems just because I wasn't thinking like a security guy21:13
ttxnkinder: if you have it in tree at least you can make sure one is not updated without the other21:13
ttxcould be some standard file21:13
annegentlenkinder: so I did a brief analysis on the current ossn base, and always more than one project is affected due to the actual use cases21:13
dolphmdevananda: i think it will be expected of every project once a few have it21:13
nkinderWe're thinking keeping it in-tree would allow it to be kept up to date along with code changes21:13
hub_capmarkwash: s/like a security guy// ?21:13
dolphmdevananda: (expected by deployers, etc)21:13
russellbmarkwash: if you tag a commit message with SecurityImpact, a message will go to the security list for the patch ... if you realize it has potential security impact, though21:13
devanandadolphm: seems like a fair assumption, yea21:14
hub_caprussellb: thx for the tip, i didnt know that21:14
markwashhub_cap: sure21:14
annegentlenkinder: so I'm not sure in-tree would work well from a deployer standpoint21:14
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nkinderannegentle: no, it would only work best for developers in-tree.21:14
ttxin-tree would help, but it's no magic bullet. The issue is that oftentimes people touch things they don't know has security implications21:14
ttxand sometimes it flies through review21:14
russellbthis sounds like docs that we should just start encouraging, and eventually expecting from every project21:14
annegentlenkinder: right but I don't think we should serve devs easy livin' :)21:14
nkinderIt would need to be transformed and published somewhere for deployers.21:15
comstudmarkwash: solution: always think like a 'security guy'21:15
ttxyears of looking at CVE patches make me a little pessimistic about human nature21:15
annegentlenkinder: sure, but again, individual projects need to think more cross-project21:15
nkinderttx: that is definitely a concern as well, and diligence by core members would be needed21:15
annegentlenkinder: and in-tree doesn't encourage that21:15
markwashcomstud: lol I suppose I'm trying?21:15
russellba wiki page seems like the most reasonable place to doucment this stuff ... Nova/SecurityInfo, and expect it to be updated like we have Nova/HypervisorSupportMatrix21:15
comstudtry harder!21:15
dhellmannannegentle: +1 to thinking cross-project :-)21:15
nkinderannegentle: agreed.  At least for the used crypto sorts of items, they are isolated to individual projects.  It's the interaction between projects around sensitive data that requires more cross-project thinking.21:16
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notmynamenkinder: indeed21:17
ttxnkinder: I think wiki + project resposnsibility to keep up to date + external audits pointing out gaps, could work21:17
nkinderPart of doing this at an individual project level is also to identify overlap and inconsistencies between projects, which can be used to push towards further cross-project coordination.21:17
annegentlenkinder: yes we haven't really considered the crypto case til now but then would barbican be the responsible party (similar to keystone's commonality)? Or maybe I'm thinking wrongly?21:18
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dolphmwould we want to have one page for all of Openstack then?21:18
markmcclainttx: was thinking that we might consider making this part of PTL duties to ensure that doc is updated for each milestone21:18
nkinderannegentle: documenting crypto for barbican will absolutely be important (and I want to reach out to them early)21:18
dhellmanndolphm: one page per release would make sense21:18
nkindermarkmcclain: that was my hope too21:18
ttxmarkmcclain: yes, those slackers could use a bit more responsibilities :)21:18
russellbttx: +121:18
dolphmdhellmann: this *should* be mostly static21:18
russellbto the earlier comment, not slackers comment21:19
dolphmdhellmann: it shouldn't change dramatically per release21:19
dhellmanndolphm: you've seen all the new projects, right? :-)21:19
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dolphmit just needs to be maintained regularly21:19
nkinderrussellb: easy for you to say, you're stepping down! :P21:19
russellbi say it with the understanding of PTL responsibilities21:19
russellband what i think is reasonable21:19
russellbfor Nova, it wouldn't get done alone21:19
russellbit's "ensure it gets done"21:19
ttxnkinder: so i would engage with projects to encourage them to provide that info based on the model you provided, and ask them to keep current. the OSSG should run regular audits to check that the info is maintained up to date21:19
nkinderttx: Great, that is my plan.  I wanted to float it by the PTLs here to gauge interest first.  It seems that the interest is there, so now it's working out the details.21:20
russellbnkinder: totally see the value in this21:20
ttxnkinder: and thx a lot for all the work you've been doing on this and the OSSNs21:20
nkinderI'd like to start with a few projects.  Keystone is already started, so maybe 2-3 more to pilot this?21:21
annegentlenkinder: yes thanks for the efforts!21:21
nkinderSure.  Happy to help!21:21
markmcclainnkinder: I'd be happy to pilot21:21
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nkindermarkmcclain: ok, great!  Any others?21:21
russellbask next week with new PTLs here :)21:22
ttxyeah, should be easier21:22
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nkindergood point21:22
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ttxok, next topic21:22
ttx#topic Red Flags21:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Red Flags (Meeting topic: project)"21:23
ttxAnything that will ruin the release next week that I should know about ?21:23
russellbif only we knew now21:23
ttxwell, last week we uncovered the DB upgrades & the translations fail21:24
ttxSo I'm going fishing again21:24
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* dhellmann was picturing ttx with a crystal ball21:24
russellbi think ubuntu broke qemu21:24
russellbbut that's not really an openstack problem, exactly21:24
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ttxhmm :)21:25
russellbttx: the bug targeted against nova's rc2 turned out to be qemu in ubuntu21:25
ttxrussellb: will they fix it ?21:25
annegentlettx: do you want some packaging problems install testing uncovered?21:25
russellbdunno, but i believe maintainer was emailed directly about it21:25
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ttxannegentle: hmm... maybe ? define packaging problems install testing21:26
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annegentlettx: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/129714021:26
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1297140 in heat "Ubuntu 12.04 (LTS)  - icehouse - heat packaging issues" [Undecided,Confirmed]21:26
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ttxoh, packaging issues21:26
ttxwell, no21:26
ttxprevious job. Done with that21:26
annegentlettx: heh ok, that one's on its way to fixed anyway21:26
annegentlettx: we are uncovering config naming hiccups21:27
russellblooks fixed already, nice ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/130410721:27
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1304107 in qemu "Libvirt error launching instance - Device 'virtio-net-pci' could not be initialized" [High,Fix released]21:27
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annegentleer security_group v. securitygroup21:27
dolphmthis might only impact keystone because we removed keystone.openstack.common.rpc after switching to oslo.notifications but we realized today that rpc_backend options otherwise lose backwards compat when migrating from havana to icehouse http://www.mail-archive.com/openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org/msg21326.html21:27
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ttxdolphm: sounds like something to document in release notes ?21:28
annegentleand we're all bracing for the onslaught of utf-8 questions21:29
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dolphmttx: at least for keystone, that's what i'm thinking (an uggrade note or known issue)21:29
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ttxannegentle: security_group v. securitygroup : release notes material ?21:29
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dolphm(given that we emitted notifications for the first time in havana, but didn't have any consumers)21:29
ttxOK, all in all, we don't seem to be in too bad of a shape21:29
ttxwe shall be mostly frozen EOD Thursday21:30
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ttxand become conservative in what we consider release-critical21:30
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annegentlettx: this bug fix helped with security_group v. securitygroup https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/130410521:30
ttxanything else on that topic ?21:30
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1304105 in neutron "Section name [security_group] is wrong in sample config files" [Critical,Fix released]21:30
ttxok, RC2 soon21:31
ttx#topic Incubated projects21:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)"21:31
SergeyLukjanovttx, o/21:31
ttxdevananda, SergeyLukjanov, kgriffs|afk o/21:31
annegentlerelated to Incubated projects, I recommend that each write their own release notes on the wiki using Key New Features, Significant bugs fixed, Known Issues, Upgrade Notes sections21:31
devanandattx: o/21:32
ttxSergeyLukjanov: https://launchpad.net/sahara/+milestone/icehouse-rc221:32
SergeyLukjanovttx, sahara rc2 is planned to Thu21:32
annegentlepage pattern like: http://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/<projectname>/ReleaseNotes/Icehouse21:32
SergeyLukjanovannegentle, will do21:32
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devanandaannegentle: ack, will do this week21:32
annegentleSergeyLukjanov: thanks21:32
annegentlethanks devananda for asking21:32
ttxSergeyLukjanov: I'm surprised you don't have more FixReleased in that list, since you've been backporting stuff21:33
* ttx investigates21:33
SergeyLukjanovttx, looks like my bad21:33
SergeyLukjanovttx, I've moved some from fix released to fix committed due to the rc2 is not released21:34
SergeyLukjanovttx, is it incorrect?21:34
ttxHah! it is21:34
ttxFixCommitted means "fixed in master"21:34
ttxFixReleased means "fixed in milestone-proposed"21:34
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ttxtaht's our only way to track that in LP21:34
dolphmthis was confusing to me too ^21:34
ttxso here is how we play21:34
dolphmsurprising, anyway21:35
devanandahmm, yea, that's not what i expected21:35
SergeyLukjanovttx, oh...,21:35
ttxYou only approve the backport to RC2 for stuff that is targeted to RC2 AND fixed in master (FixCommitted)21:35
devanandattx: fwiw, we have two bugs identified as backport potential21:35
ttxthat way you make sure your fix is in both branches21:35
SergeyLukjanovttx, so, I'm moving all of them to Fix Release :)21:35
SergeyLukjanovttx, yup, all of them merged to master first21:36
ttxSergeyLukjanov: and always have a bug for each backport21:36
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devanandattx: though the proposed fix for one of them is a) non-trivial plumbing change and b) only a partial backport of the much larger change proposed for juno21:36
ttxSergeyLukjanov: LP will automatically set "FixReleased" if the bug merges to milestone-proposed21:36
ttxSergeyLukjanov: is it clear now or do you ned more explanation ? I know it's confusing21:36
ttxso the process is:21:37
SergeyLukjanovttx, ok, so, I'll update them to Fix Released and ensure that all backported changes have an issue or backing blueprint21:37
ttx- target to RC221:37
ttx- get the bug fixed in master21:37
ttx(it moves to FixCommitted)21:37
ttx- backport it to milestone-proposed21:37
ttx(it moves to FixReleased)21:37
SergeyLukjanovttx, the only unclear thing for me was "Fix Released", thanks for detailed explanation21:37
ttxthen you use the milestone page to track progress to RC21:38
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ttxSergeyLukjanov: i'll let you fix status so that it matches reality21:38
ttxdevananda: o/21:38
devanandattx: hi!21:38
ttxdevananda: you're in full control of what ends up in icehouse release for ironic :)21:38
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ttxwhatever you feel comfortable with, you can push to release branch21:39
ttxby design, it can't wreck the other projects since you're not integrated yet21:39
devanandattx: ok. i've been avoiding large changes late in the cycle, in part because there are folks tracking us21:39
devanandattx: and in part to get us used to the process / cadence21:40
ttxdevananda: yes, that's not really a license to kill either21:40
devanandaright :)21:40
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devanandaso my question here, w.r.t. backports, is21:40
ttxdevananda: but I just don't have the bandwidth to look into the incubated changes to check their risk/benefit ratio21:40
devanandafair enough21:40
ttxbut i can give you advice if you need it21:40
devanandabut any guidance on that is helpful :)21:40
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SergeyLukjanovttx, statuses fixed21:40
* ttx likes how LP redirects transparently savanna to sahara21:41
SergeyLukjanovttx, yup, it works smoothly21:41
SergeyLukjanovwe need such feature in storyboard too :)21:41
ttxSergeyLukjanov: so 1302130 needs to be backported, and 1302755 1304100 first need to be fixed in master. Is that correct ?21:42
SergeyLukjanovttx, yup21:42
ttxdevananda: if you have a specific doubt I can help address, just point me to it21:42
* devananda gets the link21:42
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devanandattx: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ironic/+bug/129792521:43
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1297925 in ironic "Disk partitioning is broken if swap >= 1024mb" [Critical,In progress]21:43
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ttxthat happens. swap >= 1024mb21:43
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devanandattx: the proposed quick-fix is to s/sfdisk/parted/21:44
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devanandabut as we've been testing with one, not the other, it's hard for me to quantify the impact of that change this late21:44
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ttxdevananda: ok -- so let's imagine hat was integrated21:45
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ttxthat fix wouldn't be possible post-releasesince it fails stable patch acceptance to change behavior/deps/etc21:46
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ttxdoes it impact doc or is it completely under the hood ?21:46
devanandaunder the hood21:47
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devanandaboth sfdisk and parted are present on current ubuntu dists, and afaik, same goes for RH21:47
ttxdevananda: ok... so you have two options: document the limitation in release notes, or just do all the testing you can and push the change to users asap21:47
devanandaright -- i'd prefer option 221:47
ttxall depends how acceptable the "limitation" is21:47
ttxif ironic is useless without it, well option 2 it is21:48
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devanandanot useless -- but hamstrung for deploying on large bare metal systems21:48
devanandawhere swap ~ RAM is expected21:48
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ttxfrankly, given your state, it's a nobrainer, do it21:49
ttxyou want something usable and you can accept the risk21:49
devanandagreat, will push it today21:49
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devanandaI really appreciate the walk through the process :)21:50
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ttxdevananda: not that in theory you'll need the fix to go in master first21:50
ttxdevananda: before you backport (part of) it21:51
devanandadoes the backport need to be nearly the same code?21:51
ttxnot necessarily21:51
devanandaso there's a much larger feature proposed to fix it in master21:51
devanandaand a small one as a backport21:51
ttxit's the safeguard to make sure we don't regress from MP to master21:51
ttxyou could push the simple patch to master and then the refactor can overwrite it21:52
SergeyLukjanovttx, I like this idea of safeguarding21:52
ttxthe two rules of milestone-proposed are: bug must be fixed (or not exist) in master21:52
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ttxand bug must be targeted to the relevant RC milestone21:53
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SergeyLukjanovttx, btw, I've created m-p branches for the rest sahara repos as we agreed to release them like I do it before (with 2014.1 tag)21:53
ttxdevananda: want me to add the rc2 milestone for you ?21:53
devanandattx: I just created it, thx21:54
ttxdevananda: ok, just send me an email (or ping on IRC) when you need the tag pushed / tarball uploaded21:54
devanandattx: ack. thanks21:55
ttxdevananda: if the "much larger feature proposed to fix it in master" gets delayed I would advise you push a simple version of it first so that the backport can be safely pushed to mp21:56
ttx#topic Open discussion21:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)"21:57
ttxAnything, anyone ?21:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Apr  8 21:57:58 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-04-08-21.03.html21:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-04-08-21.03.txt21:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-04-08-21.03.log.html21:58
ttxthat was fast21:58
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SergeyLukjanovttx, thx21:59
ttxaaand... sleep21:59
SergeyLukjanovttx, agreed ;)21:59
SergeyLukjanov#agreed time to sleep21:59
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