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| * annegentle waves | 14:00 | |
| annegentle | shall we get started for the Doc Team meeting? | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
| *** Sam-I-Am has joined #openstack-meeting | 14:00 | |
| annegentle | #startmeeting docteam | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 9 14:00:49 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 14:00 |
| annegentle | Here's the agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/DocTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 14:01 |
| annegentle | it's fine to add things as you think of them! | 14:01 |
| Sam-I-Am | hello | 14:01 |
| annegentle | hey Sam-I-Am | 14:01 |
| annegentle | So let's see | 14:01 |
| annegentle | #topic Action items from last meeting | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:01 | |
| annegentle | I think we asked for help on some install testing | 14:02 |
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| Sam-I-Am | install early, install often | 14:02 |
| annegentle | And then Nick was going to propse a summit topic | 14:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | we're making significant progress on the wiki | 14:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | probably well ahead of where havana was | 14:02 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yes impressive! For sure. | 14:02 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: we didn't have Neutron by this point last release | 14:02 |
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| annegentle | There are still just two proposals for docs slots | 14:02 |
| annegentle | I think we need one more about doc process | 14:03 |
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| annegentle | that's all for actions | 14:03 |
| Sam-I-Am | i know of yours and one from nick, are those the two? | 14:03 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: for actions there was just nick's | 14:03 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: i mean... the doc proposals | 14:04 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: oh yes | 14:04 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: just two from me | 14:04 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: do you want to propose one for doc process? | 14:04 |
| Sam-I-Am | oh... hmm | 14:04 |
| Sam-I-Am | i thought i saw one from nick... | 14:04 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am to add the image elements he is using to a wiki | 14:04 |
| annegentle | page, as the beginnings of an image library | 14:04 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/77 | 14:04 |
| annegentle | Ah one other action, | 14:04 |
| Sam-I-Am | oh, thats a cross-topic one | 14:04 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: oh yes cross project | 14:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | docs process... as in the Magic that goes on or... what? | 14:05 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: I think they'll consolidate one doc talk for cross project | 14:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: i'll be adding image conventions once icehouse is done | 14:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | too. many. projects. | 14:05 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: you were mentioning whether a bug has to be logged for a doc patch to be accepted | 14:05 |
| annegentle | that sort of thing | 14:05 |
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| Sam-I-Am | ahhh yeah... not sure there's much of a talk out of that | 14:06 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i was also thinking about how developers get docs to us | 14:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | per our little chat yesterday | 14:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | would that apply here? | 14:06 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yep exactly | 14:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | we would need doc liasons from projects to attend | 14:06 |
| annegentle | yes | 14:07 |
| annegentle | We can make that happen, that's a good idea actually | 14:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | ok, lets discuss this later to see if we can come up with something solid | 14:07 |
| annegentle | Ok we can talk more about the summit in open discussion, let's tear through the topics | 14:07 |
| annegentle | #topic Final run of configuration scripts to land before April 17 | 14:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Final run of configuration scripts to land before April 17 (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:07 | |
| annegentle | I know Gauvain signed up for it, just letting everyone know here. | 14:08 |
| annegentle | Also so reviewers are ready for it | 14:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | configuration scripts? | 14:08 |
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| annegentle | automated scraping of configuration options through scripts in openstack-doc toos | 14:08 |
| annegentle | tools | 14:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | ahhh | 14:08 |
| annegentle | yep | 14:09 |
| annegentle | now for your fav topic! | 14:09 |
| annegentle | #topic Installation guide updates for Icehouse in progress | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Installation guide updates for Icehouse in progress (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:09 | |
| Sam-I-Am | lol | 14:09 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: can you give us a summary of what neutron options are done? | 14:09 |
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| Sam-I-Am | neutron ML2 is done... controller, network, compute nodes | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | also tested | 14:10 |
| annegentle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/IcehouseDocTesting | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | i need to update the sections to say "use ml2" and perhaps move the OVS section to an appendic | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | the OVS sections need a face lift at some point | 14:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | probably following the same structure used in the ML2 sections | 14:11 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: do you have any knowledge of SUSE install guide testing? | 14:11 |
| Ajaeger1 | annegentle: I'll have to do it asap ;) | 14:11 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yep that all sounds good | 14:11 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: awesome thanks | 14:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | so far on most common OSs, we can install enough stuff with neutron to launch an instance... and it works! | 14:11 |
| Ajaeger1 | and then recruit some help again :) | 14:11 |
| annegentle | Yep! | 14:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | the 'launch an instance' restructure patch was approved last night | 14:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | thanks aj | 14:12 |
| annegentle | I wish I had a better sense of the Trove install, I did hear from Laurel via email that she's working on it | 14:12 |
| Sam-I-Am | which means the install guide 'flows' better | 14:12 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: ok good | 14:12 |
| Sam-I-Am | now i'm working on a patch to 'launch an instance' to make it read better (including support for neutron systems) | 14:12 |
| annegentle | I'm not sure the person I recruited to test ceilometer will get the testing done :) | 14:12 |
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| annegentle | I really like this table, btw | 14:12 |
| Sam-I-Am | so... the bulk of the install guide update blueprint is done | 14:12 |
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| dianefleming | Sam-I-Am why do we have a repeat of "launch an instance" in the install guide? | 14:12 |
| dianefleming | when it's in User Guide? | 14:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | a few minor bugs here and there to clean up | 14:13 |
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| annegentle | dianefleming: because people want to accomplish "something" | 14:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | dianefleming: we cover a very specific architecture(s) in the install guide. i would like to directly reference those things in launch an instance. | 14:13 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: but I do think it could be xi:included | 14:13 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i may include it as "more info here" | 14:13 |
| dianefleming | ok - yes | 14:13 |
| dianefleming | it was confusing to me | 14:13 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: do you think the user guide should then use the user guide instructions or vice versa? | 14:14 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i will be referencing the dashboard launch an instance in the user guide | 14:14 |
| dianefleming | we have several variations of launch an instance - API quick start, User Guide, Install Guide | 14:14 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: i think the user guide is a more generic approach, whereas the install guide is sort of... canned? | 14:14 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: ok | 14:14 |
| dianefleming | canned? | 14:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | for example, i want to explain how to add a floating IP to an instance | 14:14 |
| annegentle | caned? :) | 14:14 |
| dianefleming | that's in the User Guide | 14:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | canned as in... specific. | 14:15 |
| dianefleming | all that - keypairs, etc | 14:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | dianefleming: for neutron? | 14:15 |
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| Sam-I-Am | using the 203.x.x.x example networks... | 14:15 |
| dianefleming | no - and i'm okay with it, as long as all of our "launch an instance" scenarios use similar language, structure, etc - and perhaps reference each other | 14:15 |
| dianefleming | so readers know about all the info available | 14:16 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i will be referencing the user guide stuff | 14:16 |
| dianefleming | and don't get confused - | 14:16 |
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| Sam-I-Am | at some point it might make sense to reference the admin/user guides in other places in the install guide | 14:16 |
| dianefleming | maybe you could add language to the install guide one to say, "this is specific to the scenarios described in this guide. For more information, see ..." | 14:16 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: I like that idea | 14:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | dianefleming: exactly! | 14:17 |
| dianefleming | okay! | 14:17 |
| annegentle | okay, cool | 14:17 |
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| annegentle | #topic O'Reilly Ops Guide status | 14:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "O'Reilly Ops Guide status (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:17 | |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm trying to keep users in the install guide from becoming overwhelmed with extra info... unless they want it, of course. | 14:17 |
| annegentle | Just wanted to let everyone know it goes to print 4/18 | 14:17 |
| annegentle | Indexing is going on now | 14:18 |
| annegentle | so I haven't had to do that really really hard-to-compare backpatch yet with all the index entries | 14:18 |
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| annegentle | but it's coming | 14:18 |
| annegentle | I'm working on an "Icehouse Preview" appendix that fifieldt hates with great fervor | 14:18 |
| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86176/ | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | o really? | 14:19 |
| annegentle | but I'm not sure how to improve it | 14:19 |
| annegentle | It pretty much would require having all the release notes done by day after tomorrow | 14:19 |
| annegentle | which seems unlikely | 14:19 |
| annegentle | I went through all 349 blueprints to gather which ones matter to ops | 14:19 |
| annegentle | but even so it just shows the breakdown of our processes around docimpact | 14:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | i have a time machine you can borrow | 14:20 |
| annegentle | there are blueprints that merged without any docs or docimpact assessed | 14:20 |
| annegentle | heh | 14:20 |
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| annegentle | one good outcome will be real-world examples of docimpact | 14:21 |
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| annegentle | Steve Gordon and Summer Long seem very aware of the gaps, now we just have to figure out how to bridge | 14:21 |
| Ajaeger1 | wow, going through all blueprints! | 14:21 |
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| annegentle | Ajaeger1: I'm not sure how to do that next deep dive though to explain what happened for each | 14:22 |
| annegentle | or how to use each feature | 14:22 |
| annegentle | and so on | 14:22 |
| phil_h | makes my head hurt thinking about it | 14:22 |
| annegentle | so the best I can think to do is write a report? | 14:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | sounds fun | 14:22 |
| annegentle | And not sure what to do with this preview? | 14:22 |
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| annegentle | really need ideas | 14:22 |
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| annegentle | please review for accuracy of claims too :) | 14:23 |
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| annegentle | ok next | 14:23 |
| Ajaeger1 | annegentle: I'll review and see whether there's something else to add. | 14:23 |
| annegentle | #topic User survey doc question | 14:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "User survey doc question (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:24 | |
| Sam-I-Am | there's a lot of things in such a small patch... | 14:24 |
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| annegentle | I sent a request to add three questions to the user survey, they added one, essay style rather than multiple choice. | 14:24 |
| annegentle | fifieldt has said that he'll categorize the answers | 14:24 |
| annegentle | So it is what it is | 14:24 |
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| annegentle | I'll admit I'm uncertain we'll get much actionable data from the user survey but small steps. | 14:25 |
| annegentle | #topic Doc contribution survey | 14:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc contribution survey (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:25 | |
| annegentle | Please post this one everywhere you can! | 14:25 |
| annegentle | #link https://docs.google.com/forms/d/136-BssH-OxjVo8vNoOD-gW4x8fDFpvixbgCfeV1w_do/viewform | 14:26 |
| annegentle | 21 responses so far | 14:26 |
| Ajaeger1 | annegentle: write a blog post for planet openstack | 14:26 |
| annegentle | people cite lack of time and not having git/gerrit at the ready | 14:26 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: oh good idea! | 14:26 |
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| Sam-I-Am | any other mailing lists it should go out on? | 14:26 |
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| annegentle | #action annegentle write blog post linking to OpenStack Documentation Contributions survey | 14:26 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yes I should send on G+, and to the mailing lists. | 14:28 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: so many channels :) | 14:28 |
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| annegentle | It went out in the community newsletter | 14:28 |
| annegentle | #topic Doc Tools news | 14:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc Tools news (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:28 | |
| annegentle | Anything to report? | 14:28 |
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| Ajaeger1 | some improvements for the autogeneration of config options | 14:29 |
| annegentle | I know that the Database team wants to start using the json validation tool for the API docs | 14:29 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: nice | 14:29 |
| Ajaeger1 | gpocentek and shaunm have been doing this | 14:29 |
| annegentle | So Tim Simpson might be asking you questions Ajaeger1 | 14:29 |
| Ajaeger1 | annegentle: sure, send him my way | 14:29 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: do we need a release of openstack-doc-tools soon (or did 0.10.0 pick up their changes)? | 14:29 |
| annegentle | I really do want to explore our options for fresher HTML output and navigation | 14:30 |
| Ajaeger1 | annegentle: no release needed, the work for the autogeneration is done directly from git. | 14:30 |
| annegentle | I'm not completely sure the best way to get a new design | 14:30 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: cool | 14:30 |
| annegentle | Okay I cheated and added a new topic | 14:31 |
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| annegentle | #topic Icehouse status | 14:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse status (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:31 | |
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| Ajaeger1 | ;) | 14:31 |
| annegentle | I'm not sure we completely covered where the docs are for Icehouse :) | 14:31 |
| annegentle | So let's do that. | 14:31 |
| annegentle | Tom sent the bug report which is MUCH improved, thanks all for the hard work | 14:31 |
| annegentle | #link https://launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+milestone/icehouse | 14:31 |
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| dianefleming | annegentle I will work on moving a bunch of the api-site nova v3 bugs to juno | 14:32 |
| Ajaeger1 | still a lot to do - we should consider doing another bug day | 14:32 |
| annegentle | dianefleming: great thanks | 14:32 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: they're really well sorted though, or accurately targeted I guess I mean... | 14:32 |
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| annegentle | the xenapi ones are never getting worked, that bumps the numbers up a bit. | 14:33 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: hmm, i'm not assigned to the install guide updates bp? | 14:33 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: I'll fix that! | 14:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | thx | 14:34 |
| annegentle | I confirmed at yesterday's project meeting that Juno is opened on every project's branch | 14:34 |
| annegentle | so I noted we didn't get much dev docimpact help | 14:35 |
| Ajaeger1 | annegentle: a couple of the bugs wait for new releases of python-PROJECTclient packages - I'm only updating the cli guide once a project does a release | 14:35 |
| annegentle | but a huge thanks to fifieldt for the bug triaging, tracking, categorizing | 14:35 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: that makes sense | 14:35 |
| Sam-I-Am | so many bugs... | 14:36 |
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| Ajaeger1 | Sam-I-Am: Tom and myself got it down a bit already - still far too many... | 14:36 |
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| annegentle | Ajaeger1: yes thanks to you too -- but agreed, too many bugs | 14:36 |
| Ajaeger1 | Tom is the master of bugs - and he was "busy" sometimes, we really missed his expertise... | 14:37 |
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| annegentle | Ajaeger1: he's so darn fast | 14:37 |
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| annegentle | okay anything else on icehouse? | 14:37 |
| annegentle | I'll take care of the final patch for the stable/icehouse branch candidate | 14:38 |
| annegentle | (Unless someone else is really wanting to do that) | 14:38 |
| Ajaeger1 | how are we going to handle backports once icehouse has been released? | 14:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: obviously we'll start 'backporting' stuff | 14:38 |
| Ajaeger1 | I don't want to be again Mr. backport ;) | 14:38 |
| Sam-I-Am | which i need to learn how to do | 14:38 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: okay :) | 14:38 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: I have your handy dandy script now | 14:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | what? i thought you were Andreas B. Jeager | 14:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | the B means backport | 14:39 |
| annegentle | hee | 14:39 |
| * Ajaeger1 hides now that his middle name is out ;) | 14:39 | |
| Sam-I-Am | i'll definitely need to learn for the install guide | 14:39 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yeah we'll send that script around | 14:39 |
| Ajaeger1 | Sam-I-Am: It's easy to do, I'll send instructions to the list... | 14:39 |
| Sam-I-Am | we still have plenty of non-critical fixups to do | 14:39 |
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| Ajaeger1 | annegentle: give me an action item :) | 14:39 |
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| annegentle | #action Ajaeger1 to send backport script to openstack-docs mailing list | 14:40 |
| Ajaeger1 | The challenge is t obackport in the same order we did changes to master, otherwise we have lots of merge conflicts | 14:40 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: yep, all about the order. | 14:40 |
| annegentle | #topic Open discussion | 14:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:40 | |
| Ajaeger1 | hope the install guide is in better state this time ;) | 14:40 |
| annegentle | ok 20 minutes left, what didn't we cover? | 14:40 |
| annegentle | Ajaeger1: you know it is! :) | 14:40 |
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| Ajaeger1 | annegentle: yes, it is definitely! Thanks to some really great work by Sam-I-Am, gpocentek et al | 14:41 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: seriously, great work. I hope you know the admiration you've garnered. | 14:42 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: thanks. its been fun. ultimate goal - people get to launch an instance without being frustrated :P | 14:43 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: which means more openstack users! | 14:43 |
| chandan_kumar_ | hello | 14:43 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yes! adoption! | 14:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: i still have scars from my month of installation woes :/ | 14:43 |
| chandan_kumar_ | i think i am late | 14:43 |
| phil_h | Wave haand in honor of Sam-I-Am | 14:43 |
| annegentle | chandan_kumar_: hey! | 14:43 |
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| Sam-I-Am | phil_h: thanks for your testing | 14:44 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: hopefully the juno guide will take less effort since we fully integrated neutron this time around | 14:44 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: that would be great. | 14:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | most of the BP was fixing the surrounding guide... the neutron ML2 sections were a small component in retrospect | 14:45 |
| overlayer | Sam-I-Am, great news... back in October it was a real pain when I installed OpenStack (Havana) for the first time... | 14:45 |
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| Sam-I-Am | overlayer: thats when i started too! | 14:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | plenty of 36 hour days with little to no progress and frustrating errors | 14:45 |
| annegentle | I still think it's hard to install OpenStack manually :) | 14:45 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: which reminds me... can we push for "catching" config file errors? | 14:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: some of the services just start with missing critical keys and/or mis-typings... then Do Weird Stuff | 14:46 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: there are ML posts about default configs | 14:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | it would make sense if the devs could sanity check config files | 14:46 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: so we can vote there | 14:46 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: but yes that's a push we all need to do | 14:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | default configs as in... example configs? | 14:47 |
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| phil_h | I put up a bug in neutron asking for a config check routine | 14:47 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm just thinking... someone mis-types "securitygroup" as "securitgroup" ... the service should barf with a config file error rather than starting anyway... or throwing some crazy traceback | 14:47 |
| phil_h | we need one for all projects | 14:47 |
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| Sam-I-Am | that and... things put under the wrong [section] | 14:48 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: oh I get it | 14:48 |
| phil_h | my error was mechanism driver instead of mechanism_driver | 14:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | we see plenty of bugs and issues in #openstack | 14:48 |
| phil_h | caused very bad things to happen | 14:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | seems it would save us a lot of bugs everywhere | 14:48 |
| annegentle | phil_h: space? | 14:48 |
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| phil_h | yes | 14:49 |
| annegentle | phil_h: woah | 14:49 |
| phil_h | instead of _ | 14:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | exactly :P | 14:49 |
| phil_h | everything started and tried to work with out an error | 14:49 |
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| Sam-I-Am | the mechanism_driver is a required config key too | 14:49 |
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| phil_h | until I tried to create a network | 14:49 |
| annegentle | ok, so earlier error catching/throwing | 14:49 |
| annegentle | confirmation a config file is valid | 14:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | yes! | 14:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | or valid in at least a basic sense | 14:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | "are the required keys here?" "are they under the correct sections?" | 14:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | in some cases, does the value make sense? | 14:50 |
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| annegentle | yes! | 14:50 |
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| annegentle | okay let's give over the meeting room and continue in #openstack-doc | 14:51 |
| phil_h | we really need the correct choices for config items documented | 14:51 |
| annegentle | Thanks everyone! | 14:51 |
| Ajaeger1 | thanks, annegentle ! | 14:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | thanks! | 14:51 |
| annegentle | phil_h: more than just lists, agreed | 14:51 |
| phil_h | thanks | 14:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | phil_h: agreed | 14:51 |
| annegentle | #endmeeting | 14:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:51 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 9 14:51:37 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:51 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-04-09-14.00.html | 14:51 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-04-09-14.00.txt | 14:51 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-04-09-14.00.log.html | 14:51 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 9 15:01:34 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:01 |
| BobBall | Just me | 15:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | Who is around for today's get together? | 15:01 |
| BobBall | ^^ | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hehe, you answered my question before I asked it | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic CI | 15:02 |
| BobBall | And I don't have much to say because I've been on vacation all this week! | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:02 | |
| BobBall | :) | 15:02 |
| BobBall | Well the CI was broken | 15:02 |
| BobBall | and it's sort of fixed | 15:02 |
| BobBall | but steadily going down hill... | 15:02 |
| BobBall | because I have to keep disabling tests | 15:02 |
| BobBall | which is frustrating | 15:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, needs some attention | 15:02 |
| BobBall | but I've got too many fires ATM which means the only way to get the CI back up and running is to fix it short term | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | so many new tests keep breaking when they are added? | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, gotcha | 15:03 |
| BobBall | https://github.com/citrix-openstack/xenapi-os-testing/commits/master last few commits have just been to add more exclusions... | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | #help need more effort to maintain the XenServer CI | 15:03 |
| BobBall | which is bad | 15:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | agreed | 15:03 |
| BobBall | It's not really maintaining the CI | 15:03 |
| BobBall | just fixing bugs | 15:03 |
| BobBall | I expect that if RS were running full tempest they would hit these too | 15:04 |
| BobBall | and see "XenAPI doesn't work in XYZ scenario" | 15:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | right, probably fixing the current failures would sort out the others | 15:04 |
| BobBall | Of course, we don't even have bugs for most of them... which would be helpful itself... | 15:04 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, seems like a good goal for Juno | 15:05 |
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| johnthetubaguy | try to get as much of full tempest going as possible, adding features and fixing bugs on the eay? | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | way^ | 15:05 |
| BobBall | I suspect the easiest fix would be to decrease what "full tempest" is | 15:05 |
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| BobBall | by saying we don't support various extensions etc | 15:05 |
| BobBall | in theory tempest should then skip tests rather than failing them | 15:05 |
| BobBall | from what I understand | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, so thats also an API issue, would be good to discover what is actually supported | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | but anyways, I think I get your point | 15:06 |
| BobBall | That might not be my full point ;) | 15:07 |
| BobBall | but we'll see | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | have supported extensions, then let tempest use those | 15:07 |
| BobBall | there is also a frustration | 15:07 |
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| BobBall | once we fix an issue - such as 1294069 - there is no easy way of verifying it's fixed for the CI | 15:07 |
| BobBall | because the exclusion list is in https://github.com/citrix-openstack/xenapi-os-testing/ | 15:07 |
| BobBall | which is not monitored by gerrit / CI | 15:07 |
| BobBall | I wonder if there is a dumping ground we could put it | 15:08 |
| BobBall | stackforge sounds like a dumping ground? | 15:08 |
| BobBall | Is that possible? | 15:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I guess so | 15:08 |
| BobBall | I wonder if we can move the whole of xenapi-os-testing to stackforge... | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | maybe, just I know they don't want everyone to use that | 15:09 |
| BobBall | Do you know why / what can use it? | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | but would be handy to have gerrit etc | 15:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | there was some eligibility, let me check | 15:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | its mostly just a resources, number of people to fix stuff thing | 15:10 |
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| BobBall | well there is http://ci.openstack.org/stackforge.html | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: thats the one | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | doh | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | maintain related unofficial projects | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | that sounds cool | 15:12 |
| BobBall | Sounds like what we want | 15:12 |
| BobBall | I'll talk to mate and the -infra guys about it | 15:12 |
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| BobBall | we've got a couple of repos that could go there; but I guess only xenapi-os-testing needs to be there for some kind of gerrit control | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | would be nice if its all in the same place, but yeah | 15:13 |
| BobBall | Well, that's the one that actually "does stuff" | 15:13 |
| BobBall | the rest is just management infrastructure | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | sure, but makes fixing easier if its all in the same place | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | but anyways, sounds good | 15:13 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 15:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:14 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | any thing else for today? | 15:14 |
| BobBall | well hopefully the CI stuff isn't going to last forever | 15:14 |
| BobBall | no, nothing from me. | 15:14 |
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| johnthetubaguy | not forever? | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | you mean get it into the upstream infra stuff? | 15:15 |
| BobBall | indeed | 15:15 |
| BobBall | it might still need xenapi-os-testing but wouldn't need any other projects AFAIR | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | gotcha, thats a good line to draw then | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | so, shall we call it a day? | 15:16 |
| BobBall | well - any updates from you or anyone else at RAX? | 15:17 |
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| johnthetubaguy | nope, not really, nothing XenServer specific at the moment | 15:17 |
| BobBall | OK | 15:18 |
| BobBall | call it then | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | currently planning on focusing on performance and stability | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | personally | 15:18 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so tempest is certainly a good tool to help there | 15:18 |
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| BobBall | OK | 15:19 |
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| johnthetubaguy | anyways, lets catch up more on reducing the tempest exclusion list, just setting up an on-demand build of a working environment would be really handy | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, thanks BobBall catch you next week | 15:20 |
| BobBall | I think the first step is moving xenapi-os-testing to stackforge if we can | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:20 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 9 15:20:03 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:20 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-04-09-15.01.html | 15:20 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-04-09-15.01.txt | 15:20 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-04-09-15.01.log.html | 15:20 |
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| DuncanT- | Anybody have a want for a cinder meeting this week? | 15:40 |
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| vishy | hi | 16:02 |
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| vishy | anyone here for the hierarchical multitenancy meeting | 16:02 |
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| vishy | #startmeeting Hierarchical Multitenancy | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 9 16:02:58 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is vishy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Hierarchical Multitenancy)" | 16:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hierarchical_multitenancy' | 16:03 |
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| vishy | #topic role call | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "role call (Meeting topic: Hierarchical Multitenancy)" | 16:03 | |
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| dolphm | samuelmz: ping! ^ | 16:03 |
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| DuncanT- | vishy: I though the cinder meeting was now? | 16:03 |
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| vishy | #endmeeting | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:04 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 9 16:04:08 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:04 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2014/hierarchical_multitenancy.2014-04-09-16.02.html | 16:04 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2014/hierarchical_multitenancy.2014-04-09-16.02.txt | 16:04 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hierarchical_multitenancy/2014/hierarchical_multitenancy.2014-04-09-16.02.log.html | 16:04 |
| vishy | sorry guys for some reason I’m off by 3 days :) | 16:04 |
| avishay | vishy: :) | 16:04 |
| bswartz | DuncanT-: is the meeting on today? | 16:04 |
| vishy | psych! | 16:04 |
| dolphm | vishy: i was confused but ran with it | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 9 16:04:39 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | vishy: LOL | 16:04 |
| winston-d | :) | 16:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:04 |
| DuncanT- | bswartz: yes | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:04 |
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| ayoung | vishy, 3 days? You mean it is on Saturday? Or it was last sunday? | 16:04 |
| * DuncanT- waves | 16:04 | |
| bswartz | hi | 16:04 |
| avishay | hello | 16:05 |
| ameade | o/ | 16:05 |
| xyang | hi | 16:05 |
| glenng | Hey Folks | 16:05 |
| akerr | o/ | 16:05 |
| coolsvap | hello | 16:05 |
| winston-d | o/ | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | Ok... short meeting | 16:05 |
| mtanino | Hi | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | I didn't put anything on the agenda | 16:05 |
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| jgriffith | but I wanted to quickly go over RC status | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | and some other thigns | 16:05 |
| * jungleboyj will remind you of that in an hour. ;-) | 16:05 | |
| jgriffith | things | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | #topic Cinder-Specs | 16:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder-Specs (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:05 | |
| avishay | hah | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | So if you haven't been in the loop we're moving toward using gerrit reviews for BP's | 16:06 |
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| DuncanT- | Awesome | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | Ihttps://review.openstack.org/#/q/nova-specs,n,z | 16:06 |
| * jungleboyj wondered about that. | 16:06 | |
| jgriffith | remove the 'I' | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | I wanted to make sure I communicated it here | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | so you all weren't surprised when it poped up | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | popped | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | also make sure there are no objections? | 16:07 |
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| jgriffith | I'll get it created and update docs on the wiki when I get aroudn to it | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | cool with everyone? | 16:07 |
| xyang | what about blueprint already submitted in Icehouse? | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | Good question. | 16:08 |
| avishay | jgriffith: what's the process? submit the review, and once it gets approved, copy-paste it into a BP? | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | xyang: if they're not approved yet submit via gerrit | 16:08 |
| xyang | does the ViPR driver blueprint need to go through gerrit? | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | avishay: yeah, that's kinda the idea | 16:09 |
| xyang | code is already there in reviewable state | 16:09 |
| avishay | jgriffith: ok cool, nice idea | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | xyang: but the BP was never approved IIRC | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | xyang: so the transition for things in flight isn't that great | 16:10 |
| eharney | i assume the wiki page will fill in some details about how this works... i.e. is the cinder-specs repo the readable "destination" or these end up somewhere else? | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | xyang: but the idea is going forward to have a way to track this better | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | if you try and do this via LP it's kind of a pain | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | eharney: yes | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | eharney: I just wanted to introduce it to those who haven't seen it | 16:11 |
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| xyang | jgriffith: ok, I'll take a look of this new process | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | so it wasn't a huge surprise or shock | 16:11 |
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| DuncanT- | Given how many blueprints we have that are lacking in detail, and how easy it is to loose the discussion, looks like a great plan to me | 16:11 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT-: +1 | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | So, we want to hash out details and concerns via gerrit before making it, officially a BluePrint. | 16:11 |
| avishay | +4 | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: yes | 16:11 |
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| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Ok, cool. That makes sense now that I get it. :-) | 16:12 |
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| jgriffith | jungleboyj: and it saves the problem I have of people "adding approved" to their own bp's and targetting them | 16:12 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Gotcha. | 16:12 |
| avishay | nobody would ever do that... | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | avishay: hehe | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | ok... next topic | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | #topic RC status | 16:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "RC status (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:12 | |
| jgriffith | So we cut our RC2.... | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | and I promptly found and was informed of a number of issues :( | 16:12 |
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| jgriffith | vishy: pointed out this one: lp bug#1304719 | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | that's easy | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | but..... | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | The trouble is: | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1304122 | 16:14 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1304122 in cinder "tempest.api.volume.test_volumes_get.VolumesGetTest.test_volume_create_get_update_delete fails in gate" [High,Confirmed] | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | If you search logstash for this we've been hosed for quite a while | 16:14 |
| xyang | jgriffith: can you also give a timeline on this? by what date a blueprint needs to be submitted, approved, for a patch to have a chance to target a milestone, etc? | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | It's likely either the messaging work, or it's the deactivate addd | 16:15 |
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| jgriffith | I'm working through it today | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | but I think it has to do with activate/deativate | 16:15 |
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| jgriffith | the code has become rather a mess | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | so more to come on that | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | if anybody sees anything here that jumps out at them let me know | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | but I think the best thing is to clean up the lvm code again as it's become quite a mess | 16:16 |
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| thingee | hey all | 16:16 |
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| avishay | thingee: yo | 16:17 |
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| jgriffith | no thoughts? | 16:17 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: though you were the one has the most understanding of lvm | 16:18 |
| DuncanT- | Nothing obvious | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | ok | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | moving on ;) | 16:18 |
| jgriffith | # testing RC code | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | not sure how much testing others have been doing | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | but if you can load up some code and beat on it! | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | I've been hammering things a bit and while I'm not seeing flat out failures | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | I am concerned | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | Performance seems to be bad | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | as in simple API calls can take seconds to return | 16:20 |
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| jgriffith | I ran a "cinder create 1" and it sat there for about 8 seconds | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | not good | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | not consistent either | 16:20 |
| avishay | jgriffith: yeesh... just to get back from API? | 16:20 |
| DuncanT- | Yuck. Not noticed that, but I'm a bit behind RC2 at the moment | 16:20 |
| kmartin | jgriffith: must of been the backend :) | 16:21 |
| hemna | whoa | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | avishay: it "LOOKS" like it's a lag before even sending the RPC call | 16:21 |
| hemna | I've not seen that here | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | avishay: DuncanT- and I see the same thing on nova | 16:21 |
| hemna | and I've been hacking on the api a bit for the multi-attach patch | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | I'm rebuilding a system now to see if maybe it's my env | 16:21 |
| DuncanT- | Is this being seen on the gate? | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | but I'd love for other people to look | 16:21 |
| avishay | jgriffith: you mean the REST call to API? | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: we don't "time" things in the gate | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | it would never fails | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | fail | 16:21 |
| hemna | oh wait | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | just take a very long time | 16:22 |
| hemna | I think I did see that once | 16:22 |
| winston-d | jgriffith: just for create call? | 16:22 |
| DuncanT- | jgriffith: The tempest logs have some timing info in though | 16:22 |
| hemna | but thought it was my fault with my hacks...restacked and then it went away | 16:22 |
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| hemna | I was seeing it on create as well | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: not sure, but i've seen it on "cinder create" and "nova boot" | 16:22 |
| thingee | jgriffith: I'm not aware of this behavior with rc2 | 16:22 |
| vbala | i do observe some lag during create, but it is intermittent | 16:22 |
| DuncanT- | I've just spun up a new devstack... no lag apaprent | 16:23 |
| thingee | rather haven't seen it myself | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: keep running it :) | 16:23 |
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| hemna | If I see it again, I'll try tracking it down | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | I suspect you may encounter it | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | and look in your logs for RPC Warnings for dropped items etc | 16:23 |
| hemna | from what I saw, the create actually went through, but the API call hung on the return | 16:23 |
| glenng | jgriffith: So you didn't see it right away? | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | hemna: oh... interesting | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | glenng: it's random/intermittent | 16:24 |
| glenng | jgriffith: Great... | 16:24 |
| winston-d | i heard someone complained about 'cinder list' become very slow if there were ~1,000 volumes to display | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | glenng: yeah... makes it easier | 16:24 |
| winston-d | it could take > 30sec to return. | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: I think that was me :) | 16:24 |
| avishay | i think sqlalchemy is hiding a lot of nasty SQL stuff | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: but I realized that it was Horizon that seemed to be so slow | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | anyway | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | I just wanted to point it out | 16:24 |
| hemna | I was using the cmdln | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | ask people to do some testing | 16:25 |
| hemna | fwiw | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | hemna: that's a different topic | 16:25 |
| avishay | i think we're doing a lot of unecessary DB calls | 16:25 |
| jungleboyj | I was doing some creates on the latest code yesterday and didn't see anything. Will keep an eye out though. | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | winston-d: was talking about my complaint the other day of "listing 1000 volumes/instances" | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | everybody sloowwww down a sec | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | I'm just pointing out that we should all be testing and looking at this sort of thing | 16:26 |
| glenng | jgriffith: Any more parameters for us to use in reproducing (VM was up for days, hours, lots of volume, etc.)? | 16:26 |
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| jgriffith | not looking for theories yet :) | 16:26 |
| DuncanT- | Ugh, ok, variance on 'cinder list' with 100 volumes is 1.2 - 15.7 seconds | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | glenng: fresh devstack | 16:26 |
| hemna | glenng, I had it happen on brand new vms on a fresh stack | 16:26 |
| guitarzan | DuncanT-: impressive | 16:26 |
| winston-d | DuncanT-: try 1000 | 16:26 |
| jgriffith | that sucks | 16:26 |
| DuncanT- | That does suck | 16:26 |
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| jgriffith | alright... now that I've ruined everyone's day :) | 16:26 |
| bswartz | I blame mysql | 16:27 |
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| glenng | hehe | 16:27 |
| avishay | 1.2 seconds is almost tolerable | 16:27 |
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| jgriffith | #open-discussion | 16:27 |
| avishay | bswartz: +1 | 16:27 |
| DuncanT- | I blame bswartz | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | #topic open-discussion | 16:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open-discussion (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:27 | |
| avishay | hah | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: I blame bswartz as well | 16:27 |
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| jgriffith | anybody have anything? | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | and yes, I know I need to work on session proposals | 16:28 |
| jungleboyj | Wasn't there a fix a couple of months ago for the slow cinder list output? | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | I'll get to it :) | 16:28 |
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| akerr | don't forget to vote on PTL | 16:28 |
| jungleboyj | I know we had seen that problem internally and I thought we pushed code to the community for it. | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | akerr: OHHHHH!!!! | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | YESSSSSSSS | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | thingee: | 16:28 |
| * jgriffith and thingee are running for PTL | 16:29 | |
| jgriffith | make sure you vote for one of us | 16:29 |
| bswartz | seriously though, what does cinder list do other than schlep data out of the database? there's no network or driver interaction there | 16:29 |
| hemna | bswartz, well, except we are using sqlalchemy to do the work. | 16:29 |
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| hemna | mysql can handle a massive load from my past experience with direct bind query calls. | 16:30 |
| winston-d | someone (not here) wanted to blame admin-metadata | 16:30 |
| DuncanT- | bswartz: Given it is intermittent, could be the API server getting blocking doing something else... periodic tasks have caused this issue in nova | 16:30 |
| hemna | I don't know how sqlalchemy actually does the queries | 16:30 |
| * jungleboyj recommends you don't lose your voting link. It was quite a process to get it replaced. | 16:30 | |
| * coolsvap voted | 16:30 | |
| jgriffith | self.db.volume_get_all(context, marker, limit, sort_key, sort_dir, filters=filters) | 16:30 |
| * hemna voted already | 16:30 | |
| glenng | *ditto* | 16:31 |
| * avishay voted for David Wang | 16:31 | |
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| hemna | lol | 16:31 |
| avishay | we need to take a hard look at DB accesses for Juno IMO | 16:31 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: :-) | 16:31 |
| hemna | avishay, +1 | 16:31 |
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| * jungleboyj wonders who is David Wang. | 16:32 | |
| ameade | that would be fun to work on, glance did a lot of DB optimization a few cycles ago | 16:32 |
| winston-d | ameade: hwo did that go? | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | avishay: perhaps | 16:32 |
| hemna | and the multi-attach patch I put up adds another foreign key join to the volumes get db call. | 16:32 |
| * coolsvap thinks he's the one you get for replaced voter link ;) | 16:33 | |
| ameade | winston-d: i would say good enough, lol | 16:34 |
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| mtanino | Will new development process be shown in this wiki page? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder/how-to-contribute-a-driver | 16:35 |
| winston-d | ameade: good to know | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | BAH | 16:35 |
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| jgriffith | mtanino: what specifically? | 16:35 |
| jgriffith | mtanino: you mean using gerrit for BP submission? | 16:35 |
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| mtanino | jgriffith: Yes. | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | mtanino: yes, once I set it up I'll make sure docs are updated | 16:36 |
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| mtanino | jgriffith: I see. Thank you. | 16:36 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: please send email to the ML when the wiki is updated | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | alright... think we can adjourn to openstack-cinder if there are no objections? | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | avishay: will do | 16:37 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: +1 | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | #action jgriffith setup cinder-specs and announce on ML | 16:37 |
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| jgriffith | okie-dokie | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | let's get out of here | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | thanks everyone | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting cinder | 16:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:38 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 9 16:38:19 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:38 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-04-09-16.04.html | 16:38 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-04-09-16.04.txt | 16:38 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-04-09-16.04.log.html | 16:38 |
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| jungleboyj | Thanks! | 16:38 |
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| boh_ricky | hi | 16:42 |
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| tjones | #startmeeting vmwarepi | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 9 17:00:15 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwarepi)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwarepi' | 17:00 |
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| tjones | hi folks - im running the meeting for hartsocks for the next 2 weeks | 17:00 |
| tjones | anyone here? | 17:00 |
| mdbooth | tjones: Does the typo in the meeting name matter? | 17:00 |
| tjones | ugh | 17:00 |
| tjones | oops | 17:01 |
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| tjones | what's it supposed to be? | 17:01 |
| browne | hi | 17:01 |
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| * mdbooth doesn't know if it matters | 17:01 | |
| garyk | hi | 17:01 |
| browne | vmwarepi -> vmwareapi | 17:01 |
| tjones | heh | 17:01 |
| tjones | don't think it matters | 17:01 |
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| tjones | lets get started. | 17:02 |
| tjones | #topic blueprints | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: vmwarepi)" | 17:02 | |
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| tjones | anyone have a BP to discuss? | 17:02 |
| tjones | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack?searchtext=vmware | 17:02 |
| garyk | tjones: i think that we have a few that are in review in the specs | 17:02 |
| tjones | yes we do | 17:02 |
| tjones | hold on | 17:02 |
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| tjones | not sure how to filter on vmware here | 17:03 |
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| tjones | we've got quite a few here | 17:03 |
| ekarlso | present :D | 17:04 |
| tjones | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-specs,n,z | 17:04 |
| tjones | obvioulsy getting #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84307/ approved is critical cause we have a number of activities gated on it | 17:04 |
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| tjones | any others that need specific attention? | 17:05 |
| garyk | i really hope that that gets approved soon. | 17:05 |
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| tjones | im not sure what the hold up is | 17:05 |
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| garyk | i think that we need to try and get cores to look at it. maybe russellb, dansmith and johnthetubaguy can take a look. the sooner it is approved the sooner we can start to get this in action | 17:06 |
| browne | tjones: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-specs+message:VMware,n,z | 17:07 |
| * mdbooth is still trying to open it | 17:07 | |
| garyk | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84307/ | 17:07 |
| tjones | browne: thanks | 17:07 |
| garyk | and http://docs-draft.openstack.org/07/84307/6/check/gate-nova-specs-docs/3cd7dff/doc/build/html/specs/juno/vmware-spawn-refactor.html | 17:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | hey, can I help? blueprint issues? | 17:07 |
| garyk | +2's :) | 17:07 |
| garyk | johnthetubaguy: there is a post for the spawn refactor | 17:08 |
| garyk | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84307/ | 17:08 |
| tjones | hi johnthetubaguy. we are just discussing getting approval on some critical BP. ^^ | 17:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | right, totally swamped by the reviews at the moment, generally taking 15mins to an hour each, but we are getting some through now | 17:09 |
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| tjones | johnthetubaguy: im hoping that one is pretty close. hartsocks has been working with dansmith on it quite a bit | 17:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | tjones: yeah, I certainly did a few early revisions, its looking close | 17:10 |
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| tjones | :-D | 17:10 |
| tjones | any other BP we need to discsuss? this is what we have outstanding #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-specs+message:VMware,n,z | 17:11 |
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| garyk | tjones: i think that one and the oslo port are the two pressing ones | 17:11 |
| tjones | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85469/ | 17:11 |
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| tjones | that one could really use some reviews | 17:12 |
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| tjones | i agree - getting those 2 moving would really help with future work | 17:12 |
| tjones | waiting for people typing…. before moving on | 17:13 |
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| tjones | #topic bugs | 17:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: vmwarepi)" | 17:14 | |
| tjones | anyone have a pressing bug for discussion? | 17:14 |
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| tjones | we need to do a little triage i see | 17:15 |
| tjones | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.tag=vmware | 17:15 |
| garyk | yeah, there are far too many open at the moment | 17:15 |
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| tjones | yeah and also undecided prio and unconfirmed etc | 17:15 |
| garyk | i am looking into https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1296948 but i need minesweeper for that one. | 17:16 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1296948 in nova "VMware: Instance fails to spawn due to "Concurrent modification by another operation"" [Undecided,New] | 17:16 |
| garyk | sadly it is not up and running properly yet (i hope soon) | 17:16 |
| tjones | speaking of - it's still down | 17:16 |
| tjones | painful!! | 17:16 |
| garyk | do you know anyone who works on openstack that can look into it :) | 17:16 |
| browne | what's the issue? | 17:16 |
| tjones | lol - i know a few | 17:17 |
| garyk | the upgrade from grizzly to havana broke a few things | 17:17 |
| tjones | browne: still issues after the upgrade | 17:17 |
| tjones | not to self - never upgrade before rc | 17:17 |
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| garyk | yeah, we really need to learn that lesson for the next one :) | 17:17 |
| tjones | so we may have a quick meeting today. no more bugs?? | 17:17 |
| tjones | *fingers tapping* | 17:18 |
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| garyk | there are the reviews at https://review.openstack.org/#/q/message:vmware+OR+message:vcenter+OR+message:vsphere+OR+message:esx+OR+message:vcdriver+OR+message:datastore,n,z for fixes. | 17:18 |
| mdbooth | Can I guauge the level of interest in moving to pyvmomi when we get to aob? | 17:18 |
| tjones | mdbooth: sure | 17:19 |
| tjones | lets finish up bugs 1st | 17:19 |
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| garyk | ones importnat for rc are https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75788/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80284/ | 17:19 |
| garyk | they are pending minesweeper | 17:19 |
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| tjones | yeah they are running manually right?? | 17:20 |
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| garyk | tjones: not sure. i'll ping sreeram and ryan | 17:20 |
| tjones | at least they were yesterday | 17:20 |
| tjones | yeah better ping | 17:20 |
| tjones | ok if no more bugs we can move on?? | 17:20 |
| tjones | #topic open-discussion | 17:21 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "open-discussion (Meeting topic: vmwarepi)" | 17:21 | |
| tjones | mdbooth: go! | 17:21 |
| tjones | heh | 17:21 |
| mdbooth | pyvmomi: is anybody interested? | 17:21 |
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| tjones | yes! | 17:21 |
| mdbooth | I know hartsocks is very keen on it | 17:21 |
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| mdbooth | Has anybody given it any specific thought, yet? | 17:21 |
| mdbooth | specific == code/bp | 17:21 |
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| tjones | mdbooth: other than #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69964/ | 17:22 |
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| tjones | it's just been talk so far | 17:22 |
| tjones | but there is interest by a number of folks | 17:23 |
| mdbooth | Ok | 17:23 |
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| ssurana | Well I am interested in taking up the pyvmomi | 17:23 |
| vuil | @mdbooth oslo.vmware was kinda of a stepping stone towards a common library. | 17:23 |
| tjones | i think its very much worth exploring | 17:23 |
| mdbooth | vuil: Yeah, but it's still pretty much the old code | 17:23 |
| vuil | assuming we fix up the interfaces, the next thing we can do is to swap a lot of the guts underneath with pyvmomi. | 17:23 |
| tjones | mdbooth: you mean oslo.vmware right? | 17:24 |
| mdbooth | I was thinking it might be possible to add pyvmomi to olso.vmware and make it possible to use both in parallel | 17:24 |
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| mdbooth | Which would avoid a flag day | 17:24 |
| mdbooth | tjones: Yes | 17:24 |
| mdbooth | i.e. New or refactored code would use pyvmomi | 17:24 |
| mdbooth | Old code could continue for a bit | 17:24 |
| tjones | mdbooth: flag day = fire drill ? | 17:25 |
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| mdbooth | flag day = all projects have to change at once | 17:25 |
| vuil | as a means for transition, sure, but no reason why the old code cannot be converted over as well. | 17:25 |
| garyk | mdbooth: ideally the api's should remain the same, the implementation with the backend driver will be updated | 17:25 |
| mdbooth | vuil: It can, but we're no longer the only user | 17:25 |
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| tjones | vuil: i think he's just talking incremental changes which would be good | 17:25 |
| mdbooth | garyk: The api is broken ;) | 17:25 |
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| garyk | but the same broken api's should continue to function in the same way | 17:26 |
| mdbooth | garyk: Agreed, yes | 17:26 |
| garyk | (providing enterprise grade solutions to customers :)) | 17:26 |
| mdbooth | until we replace all the code which uses it | 17:26 |
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| garyk | correct | 17:27 |
| vuil | we need to avoid situations where different sets of functionality lies in suds/pymomi land. | 17:27 |
| vuil | crossing between those two may be more trouble than it is worth. | 17:27 |
| mdbooth | If they both use the same session, the only problem I see is caching | 17:28 |
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| ssurana | we could come up with a parallel implementation for oslo.vmware that provides the same functionality with the same interface | 17:29 |
| vuil | well you may end up having to translate objects in one world to the other. | 17:29 |
| ssurana | but done in pyvmomi | 17:29 |
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| mdbooth | Ok, I'm good. There's significant interest and no code. I'm happy to look at this in more detail and flesh out the bp with a proposal. | 17:30 |
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| tjones | mdbooth: great! | 17:30 |
| tjones | anything else for open discussion? | 17:30 |
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| tjones | sounds like the answer is no…… short meeting today then | 17:33 |
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| tjones | #endmeeting | 17:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:34 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 9 17:34:29 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:34 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwarepi/2014/vmwarepi.2014-04-09-17.00.html | 17:34 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwarepi/2014/vmwarepi.2014-04-09-17.00.txt | 17:34 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwarepi/2014/vmwarepi.2014-04-09-17.00.log.html | 17:34 |
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| notmyname | swift meeting time | 18:59 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 9 19:00:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:00 |
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| notmyname | hello, everyone | 19:00 |
| notmyname | who's here? | 19:00 |
| peluse | hey hey hey | 19:00 |
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| creiht | howdy | 19:00 |
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| cschwede | Hello! | 19:00 |
| portante | ola | 19:00 |
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| acoles | hi | 19:01 |
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| peluse | spoken like someone from back east :) (its hola) | 19:01 |
| notmyname | just a few things to go over this week https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 19:01 |
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| notmyname | #topic openstack icehouse integrated release | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "openstack icehouse integrated release (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:01 | |
| notmyname | We cut 1.13.1. it's the icehouse RC | 19:02 |
| portante | peluse: cute | 19:02 |
| notmyname | next thursday (the 17th) is the openstack release date | 19:02 |
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| notmyname | so if you have anything that needs to be backported, speak now or forever hold your peace | 19:02 |
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| creiht | we aren't aware of anything yet | 19:03 |
| notmyname | (ie propose the patch to gerrit and shout about it in IRC) | 19:03 |
| creiht | but we should start testing soon | 19:03 |
| notmyname | creiht: cool | 19:03 |
| notmyname | any questions on icehouse? | 19:03 |
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| notmyname | ok, next up | 19:04 |
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| zaitcev | what's the leading new feature now that SP miss it | 19:04 |
| notmyname | #topic summit in atlanta | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit in atlanta (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:04 | |
| clayg | i forget we do these every week now | 19:04 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: I'll be updating https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Icehouse#OpenStack_Object_Storage_.28Swift.29 this week | 19:04 |
| peluse | clayg: not this week you didn't I see... | 19:04 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: but the good news is that there are 6 months of releases (ie not just 1.13.1) | 19:05 |
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| notmyname | for the summit, if you haven't registered and are planning on going, do so now. also buy flights and hotels, etc | 19:05 |
| clayg | swing and a miss! | 19:05 |
| notmyname | we currently have 18 session proposals at http://summit.openstack.org | 19:05 |
| notmyname | if you have other things, please propose it soon. I'll need to start culling through them soon | 19:06 |
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| notmyname | any questions about the summit? | 19:06 |
| creiht | notmyname: any change on the number of slots we get? | 19:06 |
| clayg | creiht: how many do we get? | 19:07 |
| clayg | creiht: and - UNCONFERENCE! whooooo! | 19:07 |
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| notmyname | zaitcev: FYI here was a scratchpad I used for tracking swift-in-icehouse stuff https://gist.github.com/anonymous/606068be20d6fa314b5a | 19:07 |
| creiht | now with more UN! | 19:07 |
| notmyname | creiht: clayg: AFAIK still just with the 8 | 19:07 |
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| creiht | :( | 19:07 |
| ttx | there actually isn't any UNconference this time around | 19:08 |
| notmyname | but at this summit there are "pods" or tables or something that will be more dedicated to use | 19:08 |
| clayg | ttx: you can't stop us :P | 19:08 |
| notmyname | ttx: hello! you have the answer here | 19:08 |
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| ttx | there is a project pod for continued discussions | 19:08 |
| creiht | ttx: that's why I was saying now with more UN! :) | 19:08 |
| ttx | (for all days) | 19:08 |
| notmyname | that thing. ttx can you give more info on that? | 19:08 |
| ttx | more UN! | 19:08 |
| ttx | shall be a roundtable and a paperboard | 19:08 |
| peluse | sounds so formal :) | 19:09 |
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| zaitcev | I settled in Quality Hotel about 1100m from the site entrance. By far the cheapest in that whole blasted town. | 19:09 |
| notmyname | ttx: in a separate room or everyone's "pod" is in the same room? | 19:09 |
| ttx | I don't have a lot of precisions on how much space there will be around it | 19:09 |
| notmyname | zaitcev: and you know it's good because "quality" is in the name! | 19:09 |
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| notmyname | ttx: ok, thanks | 19:09 |
| ttx | multiple roomsn, but several tables per room | 19:09 |
| q3k | bgorski: o/ | 19:09 |
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| notmyname | any other questions about the summit? | 19:10 |
| ttx | notmyname: if you want to make a lot of use for it, we could try to place you in a large corner | 19:10 |
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| zaitcev | Not specifically Swift, but what's going on on Friday? Schedule does not cover it, but other places say Design Summit is on Friday. | 19:11 |
| ttx | maybe you cna use the wall and a picoprojector to do a poor man's design summit room :) | 19:11 |
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| clayg | ttx: I think what we *really* want is for swift to have more slots than 8, but because we have so many people and so much going on we'll find *somewhere* if we can't get the time we need on the schedule ;) | 19:11 |
| notmyname | ttx: I certainly won't turn down a corner if it's offered :-) | 19:11 |
| ttx | zaitcev: design summit statrs Tuesday and ends Friday | 19:11 |
| creiht | ttx: or just give us some more slots? :) | 19:11 |
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| ttx | creiht, clayg: well.. swift already has the buggest ratio of slots per commit in a cycle, by far | 19:12 |
| creiht | ttx: oh if it is based on commits, I can fix that real quick ;) | 19:12 |
| clayg | oh, that's an interesting way to look at it... | 19:12 |
| notmyname | new plan! each line of code as a new commit | 19:12 |
| ttx | and we wanred that cross-project stuff would result in less sessions, overall | 19:12 |
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| torgomatic | oh, are we doing things per commit? I HAVE THE ANSWER! :) | 19:12 |
| zaitcev | Ah-ha! So my effort to split up PBE into a dozed of miniature commits is going to help us politically, too! | 19:12 |
| creiht | ttx: and yeah that sounds like a really bad metric to use | 19:12 |
| ttx | it's not how we assigned stuff. Otherwise swift would have got 3 slots. | 19:12 |
| clayg | heh | 19:13 |
| ttx | or 2. | 19:13 |
| peluse | ouch | 19:13 |
| gholt | Hehe (I giggled at that at least) | 19:13 |
| zaitcev | everyone who wants more slots go approve https://review.openstack.org/85909 | 19:13 |
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| notmyname | yikes. (I had no idea that's how things were allocated) | 19:13 |
| creiht | ttx: if it was measeard by quality commits, then swift would have the majority ;) | 19:13 |
| ttx | notmyname: it's not. just a metric I looked at to see how far we were | 19:13 |
| clayg | notmyname: he said it *wasn't* how it was allocated | 19:13 |
| notmyname | creiht: that's not fair to a lot of people ;-) | 19:14 |
| creiht | ttx: so how is the number of slots for each project computed? | 19:14 |
| notmyname | ttx: clayg: right. I mean I didn't knwo that was an input to the function | 19:14 |
| ttx | the allocation is more... tradition, with some feedback sprinkled on top. I know swift usually has a lot of sessions | 19:14 |
| clayg | ttx: well you can't blame us for trying - i'm sure every project wants more slots, but it's going to keep getting contentious | 19:14 |
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| ttx | so I tried to preserve as many as I could | 19:14 |
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| gholt | Before long we'll have the OpenStack Storage Summit, etc. | 19:15 |
| * notmyname suspects this is the last time ttx will drop by a swift team meeting | 19:15 | |
| ttx | that said, if neighboring projects in the schedule use less, I already told notmyname he could have those extra slots | 19:15 |
| creiht | haha | 19:15 |
| clayg | gholt: genious! we are doing that hackathon in June... | 19:15 |
| ttx | that might make +1 or +2 | 19:15 |
| peluse | I was gonna say! | 19:15 |
| zaitcev | gholt: We already have Swift Hackathon and I was going to miss Atlanta | 19:15 |
| ttx | notmyname: especially in my evening. | 19:15 |
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| gholt | zaitcev: Damn, I took the opposite option. Silly me. | 19:16 |
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| peluse | gholt: free beer in Colorado | 19:16 |
| clayg | peluse: yum | 19:16 |
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| notmyname | ttx: do you know when the schedule will be finalized? | 19:16 |
| ttx | notmyname: anyway, will try to save you a nice spot for the project pod | 19:16 |
| ttx | notmyname: I expect PTLs to work on schedlue the week after release | 19:17 |
| notmyname | ttx: thanks. | 19:17 |
| ttx | I hope they will all publish by April 25 | 19:17 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:17 |
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| * ttx exits the room and rubs the tomato stains from his face | 19:18 | |
| creiht | awww | 19:18 |
| notmyname | lol :-) | 19:18 |
| notmyname | ttx: thanks for coming by. | 19:18 |
| creiht | ttx: yes thanks for answering the questions | 19:18 |
| creiht | :) | 19:18 |
| ttx | np :) | 19:19 |
| notmyname | ttx: your input on what's happening at the summit is great | 19:19 |
| notmyname | #topic hackathon in june | 19:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "hackathon in june (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:19 | |
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| notmyname | speaking of this... | 19:19 |
| notmyname | https://www.eventbrite.com/e/openstack-swift-june-hackathon-tickets-8309569145 | 19:20 |
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| notmyname | just a few spaces left | 19:20 |
| notmyname | this is more a reminder | 19:20 |
| notmyname | peluse can answer any questions you have | 19:21 |
| peluse | fire away anytime.. | 19:21 |
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| notmyname | #topic storage policy updates | 19:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "storage policy updates (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:22 | |
| notmyname | now for the good stuff :-) | 19:22 |
| notmyname | clayg: peluse: have been working on this | 19:23 |
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| notmyname | and we're very close to proposing stuff to master | 19:23 |
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| peluse | looking good on my end. clayg, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79731/ is as much yours as it is mine at this point but I think its ready for next steps | 19:23 |
| clayg | I'm still adding polish to the reconciler and reviewing a few remaining outstanding items that peluse and his tem have been working on | 19:23 |
| notmyname | clayg and I talked in the office this morning about it. clayg can you share some about that? | 19:23 |
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| notmyname | ie the pre-SP patches to master | 19:23 |
| peluse | typing like mad on docs today - hope to have content before EOD tomorrow for review | 19:23 |
| notmyname | peluse: great! | 19:24 |
| clayg | peluse: I'm going to revisit that one shortly, I'm about done with the reconciler enqueue stuff enough to do the object-updater bits. | 19:24 |
| peluse | clayg: fantastic, let me know when it makes sense to start digesting the reconciler | 19:24 |
| clayg | We need to start widdling away at the delta between master and feature/ec | 19:24 |
| notmyname | whittling | 19:25 |
| clayg | ^ that | 19:25 |
| portante | FWIW, the in-process functional tests would be useful to help us get functional test coverage of the SP stuff | 19:25 |
| notmyname | agreed | 19:25 |
| clayg | portante: +1 | 19:25 |
| peluse | portante: you've got something for that right? | 19:25 |
| clayg | anyway, I think there's lots of "drive-by" changes (mostly to tests or just good ol' method extraction refactoring) that would look good on master by themselves | 19:26 |
| portante | yes, all up and ready to be committed | 19:26 |
| portante | peluse | 19:26 |
| peluse | cool, will have a look. thanks | 19:26 |
| clayg | so I'm going to try and start putting those reviews up under a common topic so we can have a list of "pre-sotrage-policy" changes for folks that want to help with storage-policy reviews | 19:26 |
| portante | clayg: are you breaking those out? | 19:26 |
| portante | great | 19:26 |
| clayg | portante: I have one already, and yuan has been doing some stuff too I think | 19:26 |
| peluse | clayg: you're sticking with the patch series that torgomatic started though right? (just updating) | 19:27 |
| notmyname | and I'll be listing them on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews (hopefully with a link to show them all in gerrit too, if the topic thing works) | 19:27 |
| clayg | I need to go back to the earlier storage-policy commits and see if there's anything that could come out | 19:27 |
| clayg | peluse: well torgomatic's sp-base branch is pretty out of date with feature/ec's merges | 19:28 |
| peluse | yeah, so I was asking if you meant you're updating that? Or, are you creating a new series or something else? | 19:28 |
| clayg | peluse: but yes I still think a patch series for the storage policy change in compostable pieices will be the best strategy for reviewers | 19:28 |
| clayg | peluse: I'll revisit it, but not until the container reconciler is finished | 19:29 |
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| cschwede | clayg: so you’ll split the existing patches? | 19:29 |
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| peluse | clayg: OK, well for the next 24 or so I'll be doing docs and other stuff and obviously you've got a pile of work. Let me know when we're ready to attack that patch set and what I can do to help. Was planning on re-doijg the commit messages to make them flow better | 19:30 |
| clayg | peluse: in the meantime I'm hoping we can cherry pick out of the feature/ec branch little bits that were just cleanup and pre-req's | 19:30 |
| peluse | clayg: Oh, and propose to master? | 19:30 |
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| clayg | peluse: yes that's a bigger priority for me that merging feature/ec to torgomatic's sp-base and rebasing on current master - but both are part of the endgame strategy | 19:31 |
| notmyname | clayg: when do you expect to start proposing the little bits to master? | 19:31 |
| peluse | gotcha | 19:31 |
| notmyname | later this week or next week? | 19:31 |
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| clayg | well I'm not sure, i have https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84621/ now | 19:31 |
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| clayg | notmyname: but in particular as I'm tieing all the merge-storage-policy-index and container-reconciler changes together it seems like there's room to simplify by pulling out changes to other commits, if something falls out I'll try submitting to master with the pre-storage-policy topic | 19:33 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:33 |
| peluse | you da man | 19:33 |
| notmyname | clayg: let me know when you propose the first of those | 19:33 |
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| clayg | notmyname: if you or peluse had bandwidth to give the unified diff of feature/ec and master a once over looking for changes that could collapse out I think every line we can pull out of the storage policy patch train will help | 19:33 |
| clayg | notmyname: the first of the ones with the topic? i.e. keep status_changed_at up-to-date doesn't count? | 19:34 |
| notmyname | clayg: ya, with the topic (that other one totally counts though) | 19:34 |
| clayg | notmyname: will do | 19:34 |
| peluse | clayg: I'll try to spot opportunities as I authro doc content, I'm doing a feature/ec - master diff as I write | 19:34 |
| clayg | peluse: oh nice, super helpful! | 19:35 |
| notmyname | what questions are there from not peluse or clayg? this is getting closer to mainline, so more people will be involved | 19:35 |
| notmyname | I want to make sure we're on the same page and expectations are set properly | 19:36 |
| cschwede | i hope i can help with smaller patches for sp | 19:36 |
| cschwede | eh, i mean reviewing smaller patches | 19:36 |
| cschwede | so i think this will be very helpful | 19:36 |
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| clayg | cschwede: hopefully we'll hve a topic for you by next meeting! | 19:36 |
| notmyname | creiht: gholt: portante: zaitcev: are you ok with the proposed process? | 19:37 |
| notmyname | or is it still unclear? | 19:37 |
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| creiht | notmyname: I guess we will find out :) | 19:38 |
| portante | notmyname: yes | 19:38 |
| creiht | seems reasonable, but I guess we will see how it goes | 19:38 |
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| peluse | FYI I'll post the doc content submission to IRC when ready and hopefully it will paint a decent picture of what's been done and why to help tie all of this together | 19:38 |
| portante | I think the assumption in this process is that we'll flag issues that come up as we go, and adapt | 19:38 |
| notmyname | creiht: oh, I think we're all learning the right process as we go here :-) | 19:38 |
| notmyname | portante: ya, exactly | 19:38 |
| peluse | inventing might be a better word than learning :) | 19:39 |
| notmyname | peluse: thanks. I think that's helpful | 19:39 |
| notmyname | peluse: yes :-) | 19:39 |
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| notmyname | anything else on SP for right now? | 19:39 |
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| notmyname | #topic open discussion | 19:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:40 | |
| notmyname | anything else that needs to be brought up here today? | 19:40 |
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| portante | I don't have anything on this end | 19:41 |
| notmyname | I'm thinking silence is a good thing ;-) | 19:41 |
| notmyname | ok, then | 19:41 |
| clayg | thanks all! | 19:41 |
| notmyname | thanks for coming. talk to you next week! | 19:41 |
| peluse | later, thanks | 19:41 |
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| notmyname | #endmeeting | 19:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:41 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 9 19:41:58 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:42 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-04-09-19.00.html | 19:42 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-04-09-19.00.txt | 19:42 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-04-09-19.00.log.html | 19:42 |
| gholt | Damn, I was hoping for the "And one more thing..." excitement. | 19:42 |
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| portante | gholt, and you missed the final log! | 19:42 |
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| gholt | Oh, I wouldn't say I missed it, Bob. | 19:42 |
| gholt | :) | 19:42 |
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| stevebaker | #startmeeting heat | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 9 20:01:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:01 |
| zaneb | here we are | 20:01 |
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| stevebaker | #topic rollcall | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
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| tspatzier | hi | 20:01 |
| mspreitz | o/ | 20:01 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:01 |
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| skraynev | hello all | 20:01 |
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| pas-ha | o/ | 20:02 |
| radix | o/ | 20:02 |
| randallburt | hithere | 20:02 |
| cyli | o/ | 20:02 |
| BillArnold | o/ | 20:02 |
| arbylee | o/ | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | #topic Review last meeting's actions | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review last meeting's actions (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:02 | |
| stevebaker | zaneb to post to openstack-dev to find an actionable solution to config generation | 20:02 |
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| zaneb | did I do that? | 20:02 |
| Michalik | o/ | 20:02 |
| zaneb | I think I did that | 20:02 |
| sanjay_sohoni | o/ | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: yes. but did you get a way forward? | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | #topic Adding items to the agenda | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:03 | |
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| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda#Agenda_.282014-4-08_2000_UTC.29 | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | I don't think there is space for much more ;) | 20:03 |
| zaneb | only the same way that didn't work for me before | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | :( | 20:03 |
| stevebaker | any response from nova? | 20:04 |
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| shardy | stevebaker: I added a couple of things already, feel free to bump if we're lacking time | 20:04 |
| mspreitz | If we do get time, I would not mind discussion how holistic scheduling should look through heat | 20:04 |
| sdake | o/ | 20:04 |
| stevebaker | shardy: I moved them to the end | 20:04 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: nope | 20:04 |
| shardy | stevebaker: ok | 20:04 |
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| stevebaker | mspreitz: next week might be better | 20:05 |
| mspreitz | stevebaker: yes, it looks like it | 20:05 |
| stevebaker | #topic Last minute rc2 fixes | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Last minute rc2 fixes (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:05 | |
| stevebaker | #topic https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/icehouse-rc2 | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/icehouse-rc2 (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:05 | |
| mspreitz | I could add that note about the alarm type defined in default environment | 20:06 |
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| stevebaker | I think at this point those 4 bugs which do not have fixes landed are going to miss the release :/ so we'll need to document them as known issues | 20:06 |
| stevebaker | #link https://launchpad.net/heat/+milestone/icehouse-rc2 | 20:06 |
| pas-ha | looks like this one https://bugs.launchpad.net/heat/+bug/1298350 assigned to me | 20:07 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1298350 in heat "Heat is unable to detach volumes from servers" [High,Triaged] | 20:07 |
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| stevebaker | I think it is unlikely there will be an rc3 unless there are major release booboos | 20:08 |
| pas-ha | 've been trying to fix it the whole day, done it two ways (removed extra call to detach and rewritten the whole attach.detach tasks to use only cinder) | 20:08 |
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| stevebaker | pas-ha: lets take the pressure off then and aim for j-1 | 20:08 |
| skraynev | pas-ha: and what results? | 20:08 |
| pas-ha | still have sporadic failures in my devstack, with all three variants | 20:08 |
| pas-ha | 've been using the same template bug reporter suggested 2 servers 2 volumes each | 20:09 |
| stevebaker | pas-ha: is the workaround to do deletes until it works? | 20:09 |
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| pas-ha | no, the workaround should be ask for detach only once, as otherwise it is a known source of race in cinder/nova | 20:10 |
| skraynev | stevebaker: +1 for moving it in juno. need more time for testing, I suppose | 20:10 |
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| stevebaker | pas-ha: I mean the workaround for the known issue which won't be fixed in rc2 | 20:10 |
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| shardy | We can backport stuff when it lands in Juno, looks like there's quite a lot of bugfixes we'll want to backport anyway | 20:11 |
| sdake | ya although if volume attach is doa out of the box that is not idela | 20:11 |
| zaneb | pas-ha: what you described is a fix, not a workaround | 20:11 |
| pas-ha | stevebaker: mainly yes | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | its only on stack delete, which is not so bad | 20:11 |
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| sdake | stack still deleeteable? | 20:12 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: and update, which is | 20:12 |
| sdake | just volume attachment leaks? | 20:12 |
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| shardy | sdake: agree, but that is the process, release even with bugs | 20:12 |
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| stevebaker | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1295536 is just a validation fix, so we can live without that | 20:12 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1295536 in heat "Heat software orchestration ignores software config is user_data_format is missing" [Medium,In progress] | 20:12 |
| sdake | stevebaker is the stack still deleetable? | 20:12 |
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| pas-ha | sdake: only after issuing a second delete | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1297396 has been broken forever, and asalkeld has a fix in the works | 20:13 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1297396 in heat "Nested Provider resources not found" [High,In progress] | 20:13 |
| sdake | ok so workaround | 20:13 |
| sdake | wfm :) | 20:13 |
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| stevebaker | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1301657 leads to undeletable stacks, but only if you somehow manage to delete the deployment resource first (eg, by killing heat-engine mid-delete) | 20:13 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1301657 in heat "NotFound on deployment operation returns 500 REST response" [High,In progress] | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | so we can live without all 4 of those fixes | 20:14 |
| zaneb | pas-ha: in the bad old days, issues like this could result in you never being able to delete the stack no matter how many times you call delete. hence the question | 20:14 |
| tspatzier__ | stevebaker: re #1295536 -> the last patch set that nanjj posted should be in line with all review comments. Looks like this could go in. | 20:14 |
| sdake | the only one that concerns me at all is the volume attach | 20:14 |
| stevebaker | tspatzier__: it could, but we're likely out of time | 20:14 |
| pas-ha | sdake: attach works perfectly | 20:14 |
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| sdake | pas-ha just to clarify, a heat delete stackx heat deletestackx is the recommended workaround? | 20:15 |
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| stevebaker | #topic Icehouse release notes | 20:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Icehouse release notes (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:15 | |
| pas-ha | sdake: I might be confused now, which one worked on which version .. | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | we need to populate https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Icehouse#OpenStack_Orchestration_.28Heat.29 | 20:16 |
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| pas-ha | will retest tomorrow to verify | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Icehouse#OpenStack_Orchestration_.28Heat.29 | 20:16 |
| skraynev | sdake: I don't like attach, because of the old problem with mountpoint (which does not work correctly) | 20:16 |
| shardy | stevebaker: I'll write a wiki page we can link wrt upgrade notes for stack domain users | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | I have some bullet points as a start here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-icehouse-release-notes | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-icehouse-release-notes | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | shardy: that would be great | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | If you see any missing key new features then please add them | 20:18 |
| radix | the abandon/adopt stack stuff is pretty unfortunate | 20:18 |
| stevebaker | abandon works | 20:18 |
| radix | does it at least not have any security issues left? | 20:18 |
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| zaneb | I wouldn't include the Proof-of-concept Docker resource | 20:19 |
| zaneb | it doesn't prove any non-obvious concepts | 20:19 |
| sdake | zaneb+1 | 20:19 |
| zaneb | but more importantly, it won't get packaged or installed by default | 20:19 |
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| shardy | radix: there are multiple issues remaining, unfortunately | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | I think adopt needs a rethink anyway, it requires coordination between the abandoning heat and the adopting heat so that compute resources can get the new endpoints and credentials | 20:20 |
| stevebaker | I think we should be quite open about the current limitations of stack-update | 20:20 |
| shardy | stevebaker: +1 I think there's probably a better design we can potentially discuss at summit | 20:20 |
| sdake | ya we should tell folks "if your update fails, your fked" :) | 20:20 |
| pas-ha | shardy: +1 | 20:21 |
| randallburt | sdake: :( | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | saying something like you can use it, but you need to be able to recover from any issues by deleting your stack | 20:21 |
| radix | that's going to be a big juno focus :) | 20:21 |
| shardy | stevebaker: therve also correctly pointed out that all of the paths get invalidated when the stack id changes, so everything breaks in the instance atm | 20:21 |
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| randallburt | stevebaker: so lets mark adopt as experimental/ WiP for Icehoust? | 20:21 |
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| stevebaker | lets call adopt a preview feature | 20:21 |
| zaneb | sdake: unless you enabled rollback... but if *that* fails... | 20:21 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: sounds good to me | 20:21 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: +1 | 20:21 |
| shardy | stevebaker: +1 | 20:22 |
| skraynev | stevebaker: +1 | 20:22 |
| sdake | zaneb i htink we should keep it simple | 20:22 |
| pas-ha | stevebaker: +1 | 20:22 |
| sdake | stevebaker +1 | 20:22 |
| zaneb | sdake: I think we should encourage people to enable rollback ;) | 20:22 |
| radix | is it documented how to enable/disable it for operators? | 20:22 |
| sdake | zaneb that wfm | 20:22 |
| radix | (adopt I mean) | 20:22 |
| stevebaker | ok, I'll bash away on those release notes, but any help would be appreciated | 20:22 |
| radix | it seems to me a preview feature shouldn't be enabled by default | 20:22 |
| pas-ha | zaneb: then why make it default on stack-create? | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | #topic Heat security page | 20:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat security page (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:23 | |
| stevebaker | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-April/032046.html | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Icehouse/Heat | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Security/Icehouse/Keystone | 20:23 |
| sdake | would prefer that stored in git | 20:23 |
| randallburt | radix: not something Heat really supports at all (turning features on and off) | 20:23 |
| shardy | radix: just disable it for everyone in the policy.json | 20:23 |
| zaneb | pas-ha: I'm speaking about updates here, not about create | 20:23 |
| radix | shardy: that can be used to disable adopt-stack? | 20:23 |
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| randallburt | radix, shardy: well, ok except for that way ;) but it still returns an unauth; the endpoint will still be there. | 20:24 |
| shardy | radix: hum, actually it (ab)uses create doesn't it | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | so that last link is an example of what we need to write for heat. Basically stating all the security related things about heat on a single page | 20:24 |
| shardy | radix: not sure, maybe it can use a policy target rule | 20:24 |
| pas-ha | zaneb: how? ther's no such option on stack-update IIRC | 20:24 |
| randallburt | shardy: yes, but I think its got its own entry in policy | 20:24 |
| sdake | stevebaker was there any discussion of using git for this? | 20:24 |
| skraynev | pas-ha: I don't think that changing default is good idea. Users will be surprised very much ;) | 20:24 |
| sdake | that way the notes match the release | 20:24 |
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| zaneb | pas-ha: I believe there is | 20:24 |
| shardy | randallburt: aha, Ok, then "!" then :) | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | sdake: for the release notes? I don't think so | 20:25 |
| sdake | stevebaker for the security page | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | sdake: wiki is probably fine | 20:25 |
| sdake | like a security.RST file | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | once it is written it should be fairly easy to keep up to date, and there will be a new wiki page for each release | 20:25 |
| sdake | cool new pwiki page per release -then wfm | 20:26 |
| pas-ha | zaneb: looking on github now, doesn't seem so | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | shardy: ... I wonder, could you have a crack at the first version? | 20:26 |
| radix | randallburt, shardy: abandon has a thing in policy.json, but I don't see one for adopt | 20:26 |
| shardy | stevebaker: sure | 20:26 |
| stevebaker | shardy: since you're very much the expert ;) | 20:26 |
| mspreitz | Couldn't we find some way to avoid documenting twice, once for wiki and once for git ? | 20:27 |
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| randallburt | radix: k; probably follow up with vijendar. | 20:27 |
| sdake | i just want it versioned, if there are separate wiki pages per release i'm good | 20:27 |
| mspreitz | I like git, if there were some way to make current built version always easy to read... | 20:28 |
| sdake | mspreitz given what stevebaker said, I dont see a need for git for it | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | shardy: that keystone one looks like just a bunch of facts. It might be useful if we also explained all the credentials and trusts that get created, stored and propagated in various ways | 20:28 |
| sdake | pretty sure once that page is written some cve's will emerge :) | 20:28 |
| stevebaker | lol, better to be open ;) | 20:28 |
| shardy | stevebaker: sure, I've been working on more detailed docs and blog posts etc which describe how trusts and domain users work | 20:29 |
| shardy | stevebaker: working towards better stuff in our offical docs explaining it all | 20:29 |
| randallburt | shardy: you will be much loved for that. | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | #topic Orchestration program and Murano | 20:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Orchestration program and Murano (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:30 | |
| shardy | randallburt: ha, unfortunately it's not as much fun as code so it takes longer ;) | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | any murano folk here? | 20:30 |
| ruhe | o/ | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | #action shardy to write first Heat security page wiki | 20:30 |
| randallburt | shardy: indeed; I've taken to dumping my doc tasks on mspreitz ;) | 20:30 |
| stevebaker | #action stevebaker to start release notes etherpad | 20:30 |
| shardy | randallburt: lol | 20:30 |
| * mspreitz looks for his invisibility cloak | 20:30 | |
| stevebaker | no murano? | 20:31 |
| gokrokve | we are here | 20:31 |
| gokrokve | Hi | 20:31 |
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| pas-ha | stevebaker: ruhe is here | 20:31 |
| sdake | ruhe is here | 20:31 |
| gokrokve | Ruhe is from murano team | 20:31 |
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| stanlagun | hi | 20:32 |
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| ruhe | stevebaker: do you want me to throw in something to discuss? or do you prefer to have heat core to continue that discussion? | 20:32 |
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| stevebaker | ruhe: why don't you kick of the discussion | 20:32 |
| ruhe | ok | 20:33 |
| sdake | rune maybe you can kick it off again since not everyone was in on that conversation | 20:33 |
| ruhe | there are several reasons we wanted to have this discussion: | 20:33 |
| ruhe | * murano applied for incubation. feedback from TC was that we need to communicate closer with glance and heat | 20:34 |
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| ruhe | * we had couple of veeeery looong threads about intersections between heat and murano | 20:34 |
| ruhe | * last discussion in #heat channel raised several questions and sdake wanted to gather more heat core folks to gather their input | 20:35 |
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| ruhe | muranopl thread gathered a lot of input | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | lets set aside glance and UI issues, since they're not our program | 20:36 |
| gokrokve | If I remember correctly there were couple questions: | 20:36 |
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| gokrokve | workflows and their coexistence with Heat\HOT in Orchestration | 20:37 |
| gokrokve | Application definitions format HOT or HOT + Murano layer | 20:37 |
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| randallburt | not sure what the question is around workflows | 20:38 |
| sdake | zane had suggested applicaiton definitions should be HOT + workflow | 20:38 |
| zaneb | gokrokve: I don't think there's any disagreement that it should be HOT + Murano layer | 20:38 |
| radix | those aren't grammatically questions :) | 20:38 |
| zaneb | the question for me is what the Murano layer looks like | 20:38 |
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| randallburt | Is the question "should the workflow service be part of the Orchestration program"? | 20:38 |
| zaneb | randallburt: does it even matter? | 20:39 |
| gokrokve | Yes. Thanks for rephrasing. | 20:39 |
| randallburt | zaneb: it does if we're trying to define the question we're trying to answer ;) | 20:39 |
| zaneb | randallburt: lol. I meant does the answer to the question of which program to put it in even matter | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | I don't think workflow has to be. it can be quite separate and it seems like we could configure any desired heat<->workflow interaction with hooks | 20:40 |
| randallburt | gokrokve: ok, in that case, that sounds reasonable. | 20:40 |
| sdake | if its not in the orchestration pgorram then its not our problem, so I htikn its a fair question | 20:40 |
| mspreitz | What kind of hooks, where? | 20:41 |
| randallburt | zaneb: maybe, but then what's the question around workflow and coexistence with Heat? | 20:41 |
| zaneb | sdake: I think it's still OpenStack's problem, which makes it our problem, especially since we are among the better-informed to comment | 20:41 |
| stanlagun | "The mission of the OpenStack Orchestration program is to create a human- and machine-accessible service for managing the entire lifecycle of infrastructure and applications within OpenStack clouds." This is perfect definition for Murano, Solum and workflow management | 20:41 |
| zaneb | randallburt: I don't know what that's referring to either | 20:42 |
| mspreitz | I mean: workflow is already in the business of calling out to things, and so it Heat, so what's new? | 20:42 |
| randallburt | IMO, there's a decent case for including an OpenStack workflow service in the Orchestration program, fwiw | 20:42 |
| shardy | randallburt: avoidance of wheel reinvention, and sensible integration? | 20:42 |
| wirehead_ | well, we probably also need to discuss Mistral then. :) | 20:42 |
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| shardy | I actually think it's great to get these related-but-separate projects talking | 20:43 |
| sdake | zaneb why dont you share your view of how murano should be if it were implemented from scratch today | 20:43 |
| stanlagun | wirehead_: yep. If Mistral is not orchestration then nobody is :) | 20:43 |
| ruhe | yes, current mission statement of the orchestration program says "lifecycle" which imho includes workflows | 20:43 |
| zaneb | the orchestration program vs separate program thing is just a boring bureaucratic detail relating to how OpenStack is organised, and IMO has no relevance to the discussion | 20:43 |
| randallburt | shardy: k. and agreed. one way would be to integrate it at the project level. | 20:43 |
| radix | yeah, the mistral thing is another confusing elemnt | 20:44 |
| zaneb | sdake: because I already did on the mailing list and it took about 100 words so my arms would get sore :) | 20:44 |
| zaneb | 1000* | 20:44 |
| radix | all of these words are very vague and poorly defined in relation to each other :P | 20:44 |
| stevebaker | yes, I don't really see the point of discussions about what project belongs in what program, lets just solve the engineering problems | 20:44 |
| gokrokve | I think sdake mentioned in ML that ALM can be a possible project in Orchestration | 20:44 |
| shardy | randallburt: yeah, I guess we're still figuring out what the "program" thing means, but to me it's a way to improve communication between teams where integration is important | 20:44 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: ++ | 20:44 |
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| mspreitz | So here's a possible way to assign scope: Heat is for when we (this group of people here) can figure out how to work with models, workflow is for when the user has to be the one to do the imperative part | 20:45 |
| sdake | i think we need to take it in steps, and the next logical step is workflow not ALM | 20:45 |
| randallburt | fine, where it lives aside, are we trying to re-design Murano during this meeting? I thought there were some outstanding questions needing more input from core. | 20:45 |
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| zaneb | the program thing can be decided the day before you apply for incubation. Let's talk about what we actually want to build | 20:46 |
| gokrokve | I think the real issue here is that TC has some concerns about overlap between projects. If we can show what are the borders between Heat and Murano that will be enough for TC> | 20:46 |
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| mspreitz | gokrokve: is the border in question the border between model-driven and imperative? | 20:46 |
| ruhe | well, we could put that question different way: what parts really belong to heat. someone says - workflows can be a part of heat, others say - workflows shouldn't be in heat | 20:46 |
| zaneb | gokrokve: I can't speak for the TC, obviously, but that was not the impression I got | 20:46 |
| stanlagun | basically Heat, Murano and Solum address the same domain but using different approaches. All of them are important and relevant. I think that working together on team level is better here than trying to create completely independent solutions and competing with each other | 20:47 |
| sdake | workflows not part of heat, part of orchestration pgoram | 20:47 |
| randallburt | nor I, zaneb | 20:47 |
| randallburt | sdake: +1 | 20:47 |
| gokrokve | mspreitz: No. the question is what Murano does and what Heat does when user asks App Catalog to deploy and manage app. | 20:47 |
| stevebaker | and it seems like heat and workflow could do a lot together, but be loosely coupled. It seems like heat templates would be a good way of representing a workflow task, so as long as the workflow engine could launch a stack an be notified of the result then we could achieve all manner of things | 20:47 |
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| mspreitz | gokrokve: I suggested a way to choose the answer | 20:48 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: agreed; I'd also like to be able to define a workflow in my template and heat set that up in the wf service (but not be responsible for executing said workflow) | 20:48 |
| gokrokve | zaneb: If you are talking about "it is too big step to higher level...' then yes this is another TC concern | 20:48 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: mostly agree, except that I don't see a reason to have a workflow resource. CloudFormation doesn't. | 20:49 |
| sdake | i think the issue is murano applied for incubation without consideration for integrating with mistral | 20:49 |
| stevebaker | so currently in my mind this is what a murano application is: | 20:49 |
| sdake | and mistral is the next logical step, not alm | 20:49 |
| randallburt | zaneb: apples/oranges as far as what Mistral proposes, though. | 20:49 |
| stevebaker | 1. a collection of heat templates which represent the application | 20:49 |
| stanlagun | stevebaker, it looks like you're trying to make one domain-specific language (HOT) suitable for like everything | 20:49 |
| zaneb | gokrokve: what sdake just said | 20:49 |
| stevebaker | 2. a collection of heat templates which represent workflow tasks | 20:49 |
| stevebaker | 3. a declarative murano app definition which defines the app templates, the task templates, and the workflow which wires it all together | 20:50 |
| stevebaker | stanlagun: not really. I don't think HOT should tie it all together, there needs to be something else | 20:51 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: IMO (2) should be written in a Mistral DSL, not in HOT | 20:51 |
| zaneb | but other than that, yes | 20:51 |
| randallburt | stanlagun: I think we're trying to avoid that actually ;) | 20:51 |
| ruhe | zaneb: +1 | 20:51 |
| sdake | zaneb+1 | 20:51 |
| randallburt | Mistral is declarative zaneb. It doesn't have some sort of Turing DSL last I saw. Steps are urls to hooks. | 20:52 |
| ruhe | stevebaker: nice summary with correction to (2). and i'd add 4. UI part to manage and combine apps | 20:52 |
| zaneb | randallburt: great! that sounds perfect :) | 20:52 |
| gokrokve | stevebaker: This pretty much what we have right now in Murano App. | 20:52 |
| ruhe | yes, Mistral is declarative | 20:52 |
| randallburt | zaneb: :D | 20:52 |
| gokrokve | Except 2) we don't have HOT workflows as they do not exist and we use Murano workflows for now. | 20:52 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: i thought maybe the *actual* task is written in some arbitrary compute configuration format, but the task template just brings up some temporary compute resources to do it in | 20:52 |
| stanlagun | Have you ever tried to write some real-life workflow in Mistral alone? | 20:53 |
| randallburt | stanlagun: no, but those are things best discussed with the Mistral team, IMO. | 20:53 |
| gokrokve | Mistral assumes that actual action will be implemented in some language like python. | 20:53 |
| mspreitz | ruhe: what Mistral declares is the program that the wf engine should execute, right? | 20:53 |
| gokrokve | Mistrall can call hooks via URL, MQ | 20:54 |
| stanlagun | Mistral has a very different use case | 20:54 |
| randallburt | its a generally tricky issue and one I'm on the "lets not invent some other language" to solve. | 20:54 |
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| stanlagun | it is more of TaskFlow extension | 20:54 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: I think this is one of those things that shouldn't commute. You'd always go Mistral -> Heat, never Heat -> Mistral | 20:54 |
| randallburt | gokrokve: that assumption is one I support. | 20:54 |
| stanlagun | And it is useless without backing python code | 20:54 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: I think I'm agreeing | 20:54 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: then I'm confused :D | 20:54 |
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| randallburt | zaneb: I disagree, but off topic again. Assuming Mistral sticks to its current design and we're not having to execute a new language in our process space. | 20:55 |
| stevebaker | yeek, 5 minutes | 20:55 |
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| ruhe | jfyi - we also have a cross-project session submitted by ttx http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/1 | 20:55 |
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| skraynev | sdake: lol | 20:55 |
| randallburt | yeah, gotta run to another meeting. sorry for ducking out just when it gets good. | 20:55 |
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| stevebaker | there was a use case on the ML about adding type interfaces to HOT so we can query glance for templates which implement a given template. It gives a nice UI workflow for launching complex apps | 20:55 |
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| ruhe | would be great to have a word from stevebaker or zaneb in comments for that session | 20:55 |
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| zaneb | stanlagun: ironically last I heard the Mistral team were refusing to use taskflow for reasons that sound very similar to Murano's reasons for not using Mistral ("tasks are written in Python") | 20:56 |
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| zaneb | both of which are spurious IMHO | 20:57 |
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| sdake | converting a dsl to a workflow in python should be fairly easy | 20:57 |
| sdake | not that I'm volunteering :) | 20:57 |
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| stevebaker | 3 minutes | 20:57 |
| ruhe | zaneb: the latest news - is they're working close with taskflow team to adopt taskflow for mistral use-cases | 20:57 |
| ruhe | i don't know what you guys think about this discussion. but i found it useful and productive :) | 20:58 |
| zaneb | ruhe: good to hear, thanks :) | 20:58 |
| skraynev | stevebaker: and 2 points in agenda ;( | 20:58 |
| stevebaker | any thoughts on type interfaces in HOT? I'm not against it | 20:58 |
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| gokrokve | I suggest Ruhe to summarize: questions, concerns and proposed solutions and decisions made | 20:58 |
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| gokrokve | And send them to ML | 20:58 |
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| ruhe | gokrokve: willdo! | 20:58 |
| tspatzier | stevebaker: +1 on type interfaces | 20:58 |
| stanlagun | zaneb, actually Mistral is using TaskFlow (or at least trying to do so). The problem there is that TaskFlow can execute any Python task while Mistral cannot. But thats completely offtop | 20:58 |
| shardy | stevebaker: any examples of what type interfaces means exactly? | 20:59 |
| stevebaker | where do these tasks *actually* run? | 20:59 |
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| mspreitz | subject line in ML to search for? for type interfaces? | 20:59 |
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| ruhe | shardy: you can find it in ML thread "[Heat] [Murano] [Solum] applications in the cloud" | 21:00 |
| mspreitz | thanks | 21:00 |
| shardy | ruhe: ah, will catch up on that, thanks | 21:00 |
| stevebaker | shardy: basically a template which only has parameters and outputs. implementing templates must have the same parameters and outputs to properly implement the "type" | 21:00 |
| stevebaker | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 9 21:00:38 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-04-09-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-04-09-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-04-09-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
| stevebaker | lets continue in #heat | 21:00 |
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| eglynn | #startmeeting ceilometer | 21:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Apr 9 21:05:35 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eglynn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:05 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 21:05 |
| sileht | o/ | 21:05 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 21:05 |
| gordc | o/ | 21:05 |
| ildikov | o/ | 21:05 |
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| nsaje | o/ | 21:05 |
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| eglynn | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ceilometer#Agenda | 21:06 |
| eglynn | folks, I'll channel jd__ tonight | 21:06 |
| eglynn | #topic Release status | 21:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release status (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:06 | |
| eglynn | so it looks like RC2 is done, anyone think we'll need to do another round? | 21:06 |
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| gordc | haven't noticed anything major in bugs. | 21:07 |
| ildikov | me neither | 21:07 |
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| eglynn | wasn't much in RC2 TBH | 21:07 |
| eglynn | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/icehouse-rc2 | 21:07 |
| ildikov | the translation fix was quite huge BTW | 21:07 |
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| eglynn_ | sorry folks, laptop died on me | 21:12 |
| gordc | :) was just going to say something. | 21:12 |
| ildikov | eglynn: it's a sign ;) | 21:12 |
| eglynn_ | ildikov: LOL :) | 21:12 |
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| eglynn_ | so we still on release status? | 21:12 |
| gordc | we can move on. | 21:12 |
| gordc | no one brought anything up. | 21:13 |
| eglynn_ | just mention the release notes | 21:13 |
| eglynn_ | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes/Icehouse#OpenStack_Metering_.28Ceilometer.29 | 21:13 |
| eglynn_ | I took an initial crack at these earlier | 21:13 |
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| eglynn_ | ... nadya & ildikov already subjected them to the eagle-eyed treatment | 21:14 |
| eglynn_ | but could the more eyes the better | 21:14 |
| eglynn_ | ... in case I left something out | 21:14 |
| eglynn_ | ... particularly the known issues section | 21:14 |
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| eglynn_ | gordc: does the characterization of the multi-collector+postgres issue ring true to you? | 21:15 |
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| gordc | eglynn: yep. did you want me to add a bit more detail | 21:15 |
| eglynn | gordc: that would be great! | 21:15 |
| eglynn | thanks! | 21:15 |
| gordc | ok. actually i should just put a bug for this and attach it... will start after meeting | 21:16 |
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| eglynn | gordc: thank you sir! | 21:16 |
| eglynn | k, moving on ... | 21:16 |
| eglynn | #topic TC gap analysis for ceilometer | 21:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TC gap analysis for ceilometer (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:16 | |
| eglynn | so basically the TC is retrospectively going thru' all the graduated projects | 21:17 |
| eglynn | seeing as the bar has been raised for incubating projects now seeking to graduate | 21:17 |
| eglynn | only fair the the project like own get the same level of grilling I guess | 21:17 |
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| eglynn | here's the summary of where we are now ... | 21:18 |
| eglynn | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-integrated-requirements | 21:18 |
| eglynn | and here's the TC discussion ... | 21:18 |
| eglynn | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-04-08-20.02.log.html | 21:18 |
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| eglynn | tl;dr: action on either gordc or I to present a rough plan to the TC next week on how we're gonna address these gaps | 21:19 |
| eglynn | (missing misson statement, light on docco, tempest coverage, sqla issues ... etc.) | 21:19 |
| eglynn | inevitably that's gonna color the focus for ATL & Juno in general | 21:20 |
| ildikov | I assume we need to identify the dependencies and then we can have a prioritized list of critical TODOs | 21:20 |
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| eglynn | ... so just a head's up if you're mulling subbmitting design summit proposals | 21:20 |
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| eglynn | ildikov: yep, we'll have to collectively scope out a plan early next week | 21:21 |
| gordc | ildikov: we'll be targetting the '#info Ceilometer gap' items from tc discussion. | 21:21 |
| ildikov | eglynn: fair enough, let's focus on this now | 21:22 |
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| eglynn | yeap, there were definite issues raised by the TC, plus I guess we all have our own soap-boxes | 21:22 |
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| ildikov | gordc: sure, I just meant that we need to figure out the DBs and the gate issue and then we can have a chance to get the tempest covered, the doc is a separate item, etc | 21:23 |
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| gordc | ildikov: yep. that sounds like a good plan. | 21:23 |
| eglynn | ... it was a bit of a grilling last night, but overall I think the TC were fair enough in their appraisal | 21:23 |
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| ildikov | gordc: I can add an action items list to the etherpad and then it can be extended | 21:24 |
| eglynn | ildikov: cool, thanks | 21:24 |
| eglynn | ... shall we move on? | 21:25 |
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| gordc | eglynn: works for me. | 21:25 |
| eglynn | #topic Tempest integration | 21:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest integration (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:25 | |
| ildikov | gordc, eglynn: I will try to order it as much as possible, and then we will be able to keep the focus and not getting lost among the several items | 21:25 |
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| eglynn | no nadya in the house? | 21:26 |
| ildikov | I haven't seen her join | 21:26 |
| eglynn | k, let's punt on this topic then | 21:26 |
| eglynn | (since we'll need definite detail prior to the TC meeting next week) | 21:26 |
| ildikov | but I assume this topic is a bit blocked now :( | 21:26 |
| eglynn | yeap | 21:26 |
| eglynn | #topic Release python-ceilometerclient? | 21:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:26 | |
| eglynn | no need 1.0.10 went out last week | 21:27 |
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| eglynn | #topic Open discussion | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 21:27 | |
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| eglynn | ... doesn't daylight savings time suck? ;) | 21:28 |
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| ildikov | hmm, it seems that DST has some impact on this meeting :) | 21:28 |
| eglynn | ... esp. when meetings are shceduled in UTC | 21:29 |
| gordc | lol i thought it was a north american thing. | 21:29 |
| ildikov | eglynn: LOL :) | 21:29 |
| nsaje | exactly, should be scheduled with IANA Timezones! | 21:29 |
| eglynn | maybe we should re-consider our alternating timeslot? | 21:29 |
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| sileht | Do you want to land the oslo.messaging patch soon ? (I have to rebase it a bit) | 21:29 |
| eglynn | ... IIRC it was set up that way to facilitate asalkeld attending every other week | 21:29 |
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| gordc | eglynn: +1 on voting for new time (seems to be quite late for you guys) | 21:30 |
| eglynn | sileht: the oslo-messaging now has everything you need? | 21:30 |
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| eglynn | sileht: in terms of those new features you added (timestamps, retries etc.) | 21:30 |
| sileht | eglynn, yes the first (big) patch can be landed (after I have rebase it) | 21:30 |
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| eglynn | sileht: excellent! | 21:31 |
| ildikov | sileht: it was the one we agreed on merging it in early Juno? | 21:31 |
| sileht | eglynn, I have separate the retries patches to unblock the ceilometer patch | 21:31 |
| eglynn | sileht: I'll take a retailed look tmrw | 21:31 |
| gordc | sileht: i'll take a look at it when you re-upload. | 21:31 |
| sileht | I need to rebase it before | 21:31 |
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| sileht | I will submit it tomorow | 21:31 |
| eglynn | sileht: (... I was holding off assuming that oslo-message still wasn't up to snuff) | 21:31 |
| gordc | sileht: you're so close to 50 patchesets though! | 21:31 |
| eglynn | *messaging | 21:31 |
| ildikov | sileht: if the eager two haven't gotten there on time, I can take a look also :) | 21:32 |
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| eglynn | gordc: ... re. meeting timeslot I guess we should wait for a full quorem to be present? | 21:32 |
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| eglynn | gordc: ... pulling off a coup d'état might be considered a tad rude ;) | 21:33 |
| gordc | eglynn: coup's are the new trend :) maybe bring it up next thurs and have vote next wed? we'll let people think about it. | 21:34 |
| ildikov | eglynn: agree | 21:34 |
| llu-laptop | eglynn: agreed | 21:34 |
| eglynn | gordc, ildikov, llu-laptop: cool, sounds like a plan | 21:34 |
| eglynn | k peeps, anything else on the hive mind? | 21:35 |
| llu-laptop | ildikov: b.t.w. which time zone are u in, may I ask? | 21:35 |
| gordc | http://summit.openstack.org/ if anyone has ideas for design sessions. | 21:36 |
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| ildikov | llu-laptop: GMT+1, so it's 11:36pm not that bad, but 'good' is not like this | 21:37 |
| ildikov | llu-laptop: DST here means UTC+2 to convert it to the meeting timezone | 21:37 |
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| eglynn | ... maybe we could run a doodle survey to see which slots would suit the majority of active contributors | 21:38 |
| llu-laptop | eglynn: great | 21:38 |
| nealph | gordc: thanks for the reminder...have added a session on tripleO+ceilometer, as verifying integration is nearly 90% of my current focus. :\ | 21:39 |
| ildikov | eglynn: good idea | 21:39 |
| eglynn | ... anyhoo, to be discussed further at next week's meeting | 21:39 |
| gordc | nealph: cool stuff. | 21:39 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: I think nprivalova will be happy with it too, as if I know right, the meeting time slots even worse for her than us | 21:39 |
| eglynn | nealph: yeah, that'll make for an interesting session | 21:40 |
| eglynn | ildikov: true dat, another hour further east I guess | 21:40 |
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| eglynn | ... actually another 2 hours east, UTC+4 right? | 21:41 |
| ildikov | eglynn: I do not know the exact time zone, but something like this I think it's more 4 than 3 | 21:41 |
| gordc | not bad here in toronto :) ... that doodle survey looks cool. something to look at next week. | 21:41 |
| llu-laptop | all Euro countries have DST? | 21:42 |
| eglynn | llu-laptop: yeah, I think so | 21:43 |
| eglynn | llu-laptop: tho' there was an EU suggestion to kill off DST if memory serves | 21:43 |
| ildikov | gordc: Toronto is a nice place | 21:43 |
| nealph | eglynn: heh, a discussion on that in the us crops up every few years. | 21:44 |
| ildikov | eglynn: I remember this too | 21:44 |
| eglynn | ... apparently it doesn't really save that much in energy anymore, now that lighting isn't the main focus of domestic power usage | 21:44 |
| ildikov | eglynn: so it had to happen or we use the same DST drug maybe ;) | 21:44 |
| eglynn | ... and the changeover is always a mess | 21:44 |
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| eglynn | ... well if we could all agree on a single changeover date, that would help | 21:45 |
| eglynn | k, shall we wrap it at that folks? | 21:45 |
| ildikov | eglynn: +1, +1 | 21:45 |
| gordc | sounds good. | 21:46 |
| eglynn | cool, thanks for your time folks! | 21:46 |
| eglynn | #endmeeting ceilometer | 21:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:46 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Apr 9 21:46:26 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:46 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-04-09-21.05.html | 21:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-04-09-21.05.txt | 21:46 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-04-09-21.05.log.html | 21:46 |
| ildikov | thanks for saving our meeting :) | 21:46 |
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