Thursday, 2014-04-17

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yoshiyama(no i18n meeting today...?)00:15
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DaisyHello. Who's around for I18n meeting?06:00
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epicoHello, Daisy06:01
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DaisyI will start our meeting.06:01
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Daisy#startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting06:02
openstackMeeting started Thu Apr 17 06:02:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.06:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"06:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'06:02
DaisyHello, guys.06:02
chandan_kumarDaisy, hello06:02
DaisyGood afternoon, chandan_kumar06:02
epicoHello, Daisy06:02
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DaisyGood afternoon, epico06:02
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epicoDaisy, :)06:03
DaisyCarlos is ready for the demo.06:03
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DeeJay1good morning all :)06:03
DaisyI talked with him a few minutes ago.06:03
DaisyGood morning, DeeJay106:03
chandan_kumarDaisy, damason he is the zanata guy06:03
DaisyDeeJay1, I hope it's not early for you.06:04
camunozhi Diasy, we are already on the hangout... setting up recording06:04
DaisyYou may know that we should evaluate some translation tool candidates.06:04
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DaisyI plan to invite all of these tool owners to give us demos one by one.06:04
DaisyThen let's decide which one is the most suitable one.06:05
DaisyZanata team is the first one.06:05
DaisyMany thanks for chandan_kumar  and camunoz to give us this demo06:05
damasonI am just making sure the hangout is being recorded06:05
Daisycamunoz: how can we join your hangout?06:05
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chandan_kumarDaisy, epico
chandan_kumarlink for hangout to join06:07
* epico joined.06:08
DaisyDeeJay1, I didn't see you. Do you join ?06:08
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damasonsorry for the dalay, we are just making sure the hangout can record06:09
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chandan_kumarDaisy, rajeshr DeeJay1 epico
epicochandan_kumar, thanks06:10
damasonThis is the link to join
DaisyI think I'm in. I see all you there except DeeJay106:10
DeeJay1I'm there06:10
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DaisyGreat !06:11
DaisyAll we are there now.06:11
rajeshrcamunoz, ^^06:11
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DaisyNice to see you, DeeJay1 !06:11
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* DeeJay1 had to grab a coffee, you don't often see people running arround the corridors :P06:12
camunozDaisy, could you plase join the last link sent by damason, that's the one being recorded06:12
damasonWe're just having some audio issues06:12
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DaisyThe voice is not clear.06:13
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chandan_kumarDaisy,  i think everybody except presenter can mute themself in hangout.06:13
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chandan_kumarso that extra unwanted voice will not come during hangout.06:14
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Daisycan I push all languages even they are not in zanata.xml?06:22
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chandan_kumarcamunoz, we have some questions on google-hnagout chat.06:26
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DeeJay1damason: I've reported a bug for you ;)06:44
uvirtbotDeeJay1: Error: Could not parse XML returned by HTTP Error 404: Not Found06:44
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Daisycamunoz: please let me know the link to the video.07:08
chandan_kumarhere we come.07:08
DaisyIt's a very great demo, I think.07:08
DaisyTime passes very quick.07:08
DeeJay1yup, a few questions I had were answered :)07:08
chandan_kumarthank you damason camunoz , it is a really great demo with lots of interesting features. :)07:09
DaisyDeeJay1, we may think about if we migrate to Zanata, are there any problems we may meet with.07:09
DaisyWe could think over it offline.07:09
DeeJay1yeah, I'll take a look at it over the weekend07:10
DaisyAre there anything to talk ?07:10
camunozglad you enjoyed it... we are here to answer any questions, and if there's any features that you feel might be needed, you can file a bug and we would estimate it for development07:10
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DaisyThank you, camunoz .07:10
rajeshras a user of zanata I feel that zanata is a foss translation tool that can compete with a tool like sdl trados/idiom etc07:11
DaisyI like the feature of search/replace very much.07:11
rajeshrand it has lots of possibilties07:11
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chandan_kumarDaisy, rest api feature and open id auth == awesome and lot of more interesting feature07:12
damasonFor now, the video can be seen at but I think it is still processing07:12
damasonI'll have a look at the video later tonight to make sure it is properly available.07:13
rajeshrDaisy, yes true, there are lot, it integrates glossary also in a good way07:13
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DaisyThank you all for your time.07:13
* DeeJay1 is eagerly awaiting for stats, right now I think only pootle does per author stats07:13
damasonThanks for attending.07:13
DaisyAgree, DeeJay107:13
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DaisyI will close the meeting now. If you want to share your thoughts, welcome to #openstack-translation07:14
chandan_kumarDeeJay1, we can file the bug for the respective feature and get it down if not then we can hack on it and submit the patch07:14
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DaisyThank you all! Byebye.07:15
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"07:15
openstackMeeting ended Thu Apr 17 07:15:19 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)07:15
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enikanorovhi folks13:59
enikanorovlets start lbaas meeting13:59
sbalukoffHowdy, howdy!13:59
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enikanorov#startmeeeting neutron lbaas14:00
enikanorov#startmeeting neutron lbaas14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Apr 17 14:00:17 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is enikanorov. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas'14:00
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enikanorovok, so I'd like to dedicate this meeting mostly to continue the API discussion we have had14:01
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enikanorovespecially because we have a new API proposal14:01
sbalukoffSounds good!14:01
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jorgemthat is still in the works btw ;)14:01
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enikanorovjorgem: thanks for making the document14:02
sbalukoffYep, thanks!14:02
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enikanorovi hope every one could take a look at it and evaluate14:02
crc32I love the new API proposal14:02
jorgemenikanorov: No problem. It seems that is has sparked a nice little debate :)14:03
enikanorovso I have several concerns on the approach, some technical, some project-wise14:03
enikanorovi think i'll start from the project-wise14:03
enikanorovin fact it was already spoken out by me14:03
enikanorovbut i think it makes sense to reiterate14:03
mesteryAny chance you guys could paste a link to the doc here so it's in the meeting minutes as well?14:04
sballemestery: 114:04
enikanorovmestery: good suggestion14:04
mesterythanks obondarev!14:04
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enikanorovok, so I was about to say about Neutron API14:05
enikanorovNeutron API is quite a low-level, that is focused on manipulating network primitives14:05
enikanorovthat's the state of the art right now, and it also create a design guide lines for new APIs14:06
enikanorovthat's why existing LBaaS API generally looks like it is14:06
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sbalukoffSo in other words, in Neutron API, "single-call" deployments don't usually happen?14:06
enikanorovsingle-call is delegated to higher-layer, orcehstration14:07
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sbalukoff(ie. a user or operator needs to run several API commands in order to have something functional for their cloud.)14:07
sbalukoffGot it.14:07
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enikanorovthat could be UI or orchestration tools14:07
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enikanorovso if we want to embed such capabilities into Neutron - it should be an extra, not the main API14:08
jorgemenikanorov: Correct and understandable. However, since load balancing has a lot of L7 features one could put in in a different group that general neutron networking.14:08
sballeenikanorov: I thougth the reason for a new API was to make it more usfeu and less confusing. If we cannot change the scope it will be hard to come up with any resonable API from an operator point of view14:08
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sbalukoffSo, it's still somewhat unclear to me what is being looked for when people are asking for the "single call" stuff. Perhaps they could define that? (If not here, then on the mailing list?)14:08
enikanorovsballe: that's the part of concerns. hold on! :)14:08
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enikanorovjorgem: we're still within one project, and the guidelines apply14:09
crc32I really wished you had raised this argument much earlier. Instead discussion was allowed to continue even though you were against it all along. I would ask that you refrain from doing this in the future.14:09
obondarevsballe: the initial reason was that current API can't handle all requested features14:10
enikanorovso project-wise I'm afraid it would be quite difficult to maintain both approaches - regular 'per-object' and 'single-call'14:10
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crc32Its a respectable argument though.14:10
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enikanorovso, my personal opinion - i'm not against 'single-call'14:10
enikanorovi'm just saying about the costs and constraints14:10
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enikanorovcosts - support, keeping it in sync with featurs that 'per object' model provides14:11
jorgemenikanorov: The fact that lbaas is within Neutron may be part of the problem then. The scope of lbaas seems to be much larger than previously thought. Taking a look at the requirements everyone has put down seems to indicate this no?14:11
sbalukoffI still think it might be deliverable by using the "good defaults" strategy. :/ But again-- I'm unclear on what we would need to deliver, exactly.14:11
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ptoohillso, we cant simplify things from the operator perspective because another layer(different tool) should handle that for us?14:11
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jorgemenikanorov: It seems like we are limited in making decisions because of this as well.14:11
enikanorovjorgem: we're limited by the need of making consistent API14:12
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enikanorovconsistent - means that chosing some approach should allow you to do everything that service supports14:12
mesterySorry for jumping in a bit late here, but is the main concern by the operators present here that the LBaaS API needs to be simplified?14:12
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jorgemenikanorov: please define? how so?14:12
sbalukoffmastery: Partially, yet. That and the old a14:13
german_mestery, yes we have end users who are not network specialists14:13
crc32yea I'm not infavor of the orchistration layer idea cause thats just one step away from requireing heat templates to do the orchistration which adds complexity defeaating the purpose of making a simpler single call method.14:13
sbalukoffthe old API doesn't provide for the feature set being requested14:13
enikanorovjorgem: single call API should allow you do create conf for any use case with a single call14:13
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mesteryOK, now I understand the desire for the single call API then, thanks. :)14:13
enikanorovtechnically it is possible, implementing that will result in the API that Heat has14:13
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enikanorovgiven that Heat is focused on that, is it really necessary to bring this capability on a lower layer on which Neutron stands?14:14
rm_workenikanorov: i think the proposed API here does that -- or else we have just not managed to come up with a use-case that breaks this14:14
sballeenikanorov: I think that bringing Heat is not a good idea. It makes everything more complex.14:14
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crc32enikanorov: I pretty certaion making heat a mask for a single call will add more complexity then simply supporting a single API call. Its like putting it heat defeats the "simplicity" benifit of a flat single call.14:15
enikanorovsballe: what does mean 'bringing'?14:15
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crc32present tense for "bring"14:15
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enikanorovcrc32: i think it's the operator's responsibility to choose right tools for automation14:16
sbalukoffIn any case, we're going to need API which covers manipulating primitives. So for the Rackspace proposal does that. It also tries to solve the single-call problem-- though again, this is not yet well defined.14:16
obondarevI doubt that supporting a single API will be 'simple'14:16
enikanorovHeat is focused on that. if it's not good enough, you can use neutron client directly to create everything you want14:16
enikanorovyeah, another concern is that 'single-call API' is simple from the first glance only14:17
crc32enikanorov: Where not talking about automation. Were talking about a simple way to build a loadbalancer with pools and poolmembers. Its more about making the common case simple.14:17
jorgemSo I am going to link the use cases with walkthroughs to show how this API would work. I think that may ease some confusion14:17
enikanorovcrc32: common case is well-covered by the UI14:17
sbalukoffjorgem: Is there a plan to alter the language used in the API y'all proposed to conform with the teminology defined here?
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enikanorovcrc32: and btw, that depends on what is 'common'14:18
rm_worksbalukoff: what terminology is wrong currently? maybe we need to define "content_switching"? but I am not sure what else would be missing14:18
crc32sorry enikanorov but UI is not an API.14:18
enikanorovcrc32: i'm talking about UX now, how users will consume that14:18
sballecrc32: + 114:18
sballeenikanorov: You cannot hide complexity behind the UI.14:19
sbalukoffrm_work: The use of the term "load balancer" doesn't seem to work with the glossary. Reading the API, it seems to me that by "load balancer" you mean "listener" as defined in the glossary.14:19
jorgemsbalukoff: We were thinking of it from an open-minded perspective so potentially yes. I don't want to be limited to the glossary but also want to keep it in mind.14:19
sballeA single API call or higher level API call make sense14:19
enikanorovsballe: right, if a use case is complex14:19
sbalukoffjorgem: I just know that using two completely different meanings for the same words tends to breed confusion in these discussions.14:20
jorgemsbalukoff: Otherwise we could potentially be limiting ourselves to possibilities. Again, we are in the nascent stage of building up a proposal so feedback is most welcome.14:20
rm_worksbalukoff: I think yes it is very close to that definition, but there would need to be some changes also (for example it is no longer specifically a child of the VIP object). we could update that but then it would break existing proposals, no?14:20
crc32thats why I call them loadbalancer/listeners untill an agreement is arrived at.14:20
jorgemsbalukoff: Correct, I'll make sure we add a new glossary specific to this proposal to ease confusion.14:20
rm_worksbalukoff: so maybe we just need to set the glossary on hold for a bit, since I think the change is obvious enough that you were able to point it out and I think you understand the difference14:21
sbalukoffjorgem: Sounds good to me. As long as you're defining your terms, I don't have a problem with using terms specific to your proposal.14:21
rm_workor as jorgem says, maybe a new glossary?14:21
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jorgemsbalukoff: awesome. Thanks.14:21
bbabyFrom API doc "one port and one protocol per load balancer" - Does that mean one listener can have 'either' tcp Or udp per port?14:21
jorgembtw, is anyone else working on a new API proposal? It would be nice to have several to eventually discuss.14:22
sbalukoffjorgem: I'm planning on putting one together with my team this week.14:22
enikanorovjorgem: another proposals are actually reflected in API discussion14:22
obondarevjorgem: we already have several14:22
enikanorovjorgem: sorry in Obj Model discussion14:23
sbalukoffThough it might not be ready by our next meeting. I'm going to try to have it ready then so we can continue this discussion apace.14:23
jorgemenikanorov: So object model doesn't have API calls? Can someone add those?14:23
enikanorovthere each object directly maps to a resource that can be CRUDed14:23
enikanorovjorgem: ^^14:23
jorgemenikanorov: Like POST, PUT, DELETE, etc.14:23
enikanorovjorgem: that's just implied14:23
rm_workenikanorov: i think in this model also, each object directly maps to a resource that be CRUDed14:24
jorgemenikanorov: Correct, perhaps walkthroughs to see if the proposals satisfy the requirements everyone has layed out?14:24
german_well, let's make it explicit14:24
sballejorgem: We like the ATLAS' type approach since that s what we are currently using for our production lBaas so we won't come up with a new proposal but comment and help improve yours14:24
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rm_workenikanorov: unless i am missing something14:24
sbalukoffenikanorov: I think the object model discussion probably needs API discussion attached: There's some subtlety involved in, for example, what really happens when you "delete" something.14:24
enikanorov#action enikanorov to add API sketch to Obj Model discussion14:24
markmcclainrm_work: REST do not have to directly map the object model14:24
sbalukoffOh! I forgot about those...14:24
markmcclainthere are valid reasons not to have them maop14:25
sbalukoff#action sbalukoff to propose alternate API14:25
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rm_workmarkmcclain: they don't have to, but in this case enikanorov is complaining that they should, and i am pointing out that they DO14:25
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rm_workmarkmcclain: so I am trying to figure out his complain :)14:25
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enikanorovi'm saying that in the obj model proposals objects map to API14:25
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enikanorovi'll make it more explicit14:26
rm_workreferring to: <enikanorov> there each object directly maps to a resource that can be CRUDed14:26
bloganso is the main contention here the single api call or the api definition itself?14:26
rm_workunless i misunderstood what you were saying14:26
crc32I don't know. Some of thhese objects don't arn't normalized so its not obvious which is the root object. That makes the actual API spec ambigous.14:26
rm_workin that case, please ignore and continue14:26
enikanorovrm_work: "there" means in the proposals we have14:26
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rm_workenikanorov: which are what you seem to be advocating?14:27
enikanorovcrc32: right. that's why 'root object' definition lays in object model, not in the API14:27
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rm_workenikanorov: i thought we agreed in a past meeting that the object model should fall out of the API definition, and not the other way around14:27
crc32so I see multiple ways to interpret the API based on the object models so I think there is a great benifit to show what concrete API calls would look like.14:27
enikanorovrm_work: has 4 proposals14:27
enikanorovi'm advocating #2 and #314:27
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sballerm_work: +1 I am confused too on how we proceed.14:28
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bloganweren't we supposed to first discuss the API and decide on that first before we even start talking about the object model?14:28
bloganif the API model works the object model will fall into place14:28
jorgemenikanorov:  I thought markmcclain wanted us to work on API discussion. object model discussion to me is the internal domain that may or may not map to the API 1-to-114:29
sballeblogan: That was my understanding too14:29
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jorgemmarkmcclain: thoughts?14:29
sbalukoffI'm sort of in the same boat (I think) as enikanorov here: I see API and object model being intricately linked.14:29
sbalukoffIt doesn't make a whole lot of sense to discuss API without some idea of what the underlying object model looks like.14:29
enikanorovstarting from API is also ok14:29
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enikanorovit's just happened that we were discussion in terms of obj model14:30
rm_worksbalukoff: i think they are too -- but in a cause -> effect sort of way; define what you want of the API, and it becomes clear what the object model needs to be14:30
sbalukoffSo maybe--  in proposing API, also present a diagram of what the resulting object model looks like?14:30
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jorgemsbalukoff: Correct but the object model proposals need to be linked to an actual API. Right now an API can be inferred which can lead to confusion. An explicit API would be nice so that we may compare.14:30
sbalukoffrm_work: Yeah, I'm fine with that, too.14:30
rm_workI actually thought we had one, I am not sure what happened to it, as it is not in that document…14:30
sbalukoffjorgem: Agreed!14:30
enikanorovjorgem: i'll add explicit API14:30
blogansbalukoff: id say the object model doesn't matter very much when it comes to the API because once the API schema is defined, the object model should be obvious14:30
rm_workblogan: didn't you show me an object model that was derived from that API def?14:30
jorgemenikanorov: To all 4 proposals?14:30
crc32sbalukoff: I believe the API depends on the object model but I don't think that means the object models proposed have a 1 to 1 relation ship with the API. For example the L7Association what would a call to add that look like in the REST tree?14:31
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crc32what would the call that actually joins objects together look like?14:31
enikanorovjorgem: for the first 3, i guess, they are not very different14:31
sbalukoffblogan: I still want my pretty pictures. :)14:31
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bloganrm_work: is was just a diagram of the API not the object model, though the object model would be similar14:31
jorgemenikanorov: Sounds good just want to make sure we have something for all proposals in order to compare fairly14:31
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enikanorovjorgem: the thing is that comparison will go down to obj model14:32
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enikanorovbecause it still has 1-1 mapping with the API14:32
sbalukoffenikanorov: Not necessarily 1-114:32
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blogansbalukoff: I like pretty pictures too :)14:32
sbalukoffBut yes, I think an API discussion is incomplete without knowing what the resulting object model will look like.14:32
enikanorovyeah, not necessarily, but for most of the objects14:32
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jorgemenikanorov: I disagree. The API is how users will interact with the service. The object model may not be a 1-to-1 mapping. In CAN be but isn't required.14:33
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enikanorovjorgem: you are right, it's not required14:33
jorgemenikanorov: As long as the API satisfies everyone's use cases then we should all be happy right?14:33
crc32enikanorov: so what would # 2 look like. "POST /vip/loadbalancer/Pools" {"members":[…]}?14:33
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enikanorovwe have general constraints like those i mentioned in the beginning14:33
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enikanorovand then we just have to decide 'first class citizens' of the API14:34
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enikanorovit then lead to 1-1 mapping for most of obj model objects14:34
enikanorovjorgem: yep!14:34
jorgemenikanorov: I guess I'd like to understand this constraints a little better so that I don't go down the wrong path then.14:34
crc32would there be a call like "PUT /loadbalancer/someuuid/attach_member/{member_uuid}"14:34
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jorgemmarkmcclain: What constraints do we have in making a new API?14:35
enikanorovjorgem: i think looking at Neutron API will help with that14:35
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obondarevseems we just need to have both API calls and object model in each proposal so everybody would be happy14:35
markmcclainjorgem: honestly we don't have any14:35
enikanorovwhat it usually does, and what it doesn't do14:35
markmcclaintalking with other large deployers the common response is folks want something that works14:35
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sbalukoffmarkmcclain: Other that "don't do stupid things?" ;)14:35
bloganhopefully somethign that just works and something that doesn't cause confusion14:36
sbalukoffblogan: Indeed!14:36
markmcclainright we also have to be careful to remember that some of the larger users of loadbalancing do much more than http(s)14:36
german_I think adding some examples will help avoid confusion14:37
crc32I think we need something more concrete,14:37
jorgemenikanorov: From your perspective what constraints are there? I'd like to keep them in mind when working on the API proposals14:37
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enikanorovjorgem: doing same thing with several ways is one of such (at least, to think of it before actually implementing another way)14:37
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sbalukoffenikanorov: That kind of vetoes the whole "single call" discussion, which I'm not sure is fair.14:38
bloganwe can definitely put together an object model for this API but we were hoping to get the community's ideas on tweaks that could be done before we started drafting the object model14:38
jorgemenikanorov: so multiple calls vs single call I'm guessing? This as discussed last week would be a choice.14:38
crc32yea seems like that constraint was made up on the fly. lol14:38
jorgemenikanorov: Let me work on this a little more in the following week. I think I can convince you.14:39
enikanorovanother constraint is consistency14:39
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german_what do you mean by that?14:39
sballeenikanorov: Can you elaborate on consistency?14:40
enikanorovas i said, if we go with single-call, than everything should be possible with that single call14:40
enikanorovno 'support calls'14:40
crc32enikonorov: Meaning consistency for the neutron api and thats the only Argument I'm taking into consideration. I'm waying the needs of our customers with the need to look consistent with neutron.14:40
enikanorovotherwise it would be just no point in in14:40
rm_workenikanorov: are there any proposals that violate that?14:40
crc32not ours.14:41
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enikanorovrm_work: it's just that existing proposal is not capable for that yet14:41
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bloganenikanorov: how so?14:41
rm_workenikanorov: the proposal that jorge made *is* capable of that, unless I am missing something14:41
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crc32but I don't agree with the premise "If it doesn't support all complex cases there for lets junk the whole concept of a single API call".14:42
enikanorovit will, when we resolve how to deal with arbitrary object graph within a json14:42
german_I am happy when 90% of cases can be covered by a single call14:42
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rm_workenikanorov: i think there was actually a section covering this, unless I am mistaken...14:42
enikanorovcrc32: i'm not 'junking' it, i would just like to see it in its completeness14:43
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sbalukoffcrc32: Right. But, we don't know what the simple case being asked for looks like. I'd like those who are looking for "single call" functionality to elaborate on that (some examples would really help here!)14:43
bloganrm_work: there wasn't a section on that, well not a explicit section, but I explained it in the ML14:44
rm_workblogan: ah, i think your ML response was what I was thinking of14:44
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crc32Here qre examples of proposed API calls.
obondarevI'm wondering if single-call api is something that can't be discussed/added as an extension after we agree on the main api (covering all use cases)14:45
rm_workactually, i had remembered changing it so the rules were actually defined WITH the pool in question, so we didn't even have to do inter-json references… which was the only place that was happening originally… was that change not included int his proposal?14:45
bloganhowever we should definitely go back to that document and add how all the use cases would be accomplished using the api, an object model, and also probably put it on the wiki since that monolithic text document sucks for navigating to sections14:45
enikanorovQ:  Why only one pool per load balancer?14:46
enikanorovA:  One pool per load balancer also simplifies everything.14:46
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sbalukoffobondarev: I think we can do both discussion in parallel, but probably on the ML.14:46
enikanorov1 pool per loadbalancer is already supported right now14:46
bloganobondarev: i totally agree with that, it should not be a deal breaker for the api14:46
rm_workenikanorov: multiple pools are covered in the content_switching object, with the single pool on the high-level object being the default pool14:46
enikanorovif that's what all want, we don't need to even discuss the API14:46
crc32enikanorov: Yea I think we could rethink the single pool per loadbalancer.14:47
crc32enikanorov: I think they took it out and placed it in content-switching since thats the only place that required one as of now.14:47
enikanorovcrc32: not really, not the only place14:48
bloganenikanorov: if that is a big problem then yes multiple pools can be added but it needs to be well thought out14:48
enikanorovpool is merely a group of nodes14:48
rm_workenikanorov: we would love feedback on examples of where else having multiple pools would be required14:48
enikanorovnot more than that14:48
enikanorovit's not a loadbalancer14:48
sbalukoffenikanorov: Er.. I think it has some other attributes, too.14:48
rm_workwe literally couldn't think of any cases besides L7 switching14:48
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enikanorovwe can bind it so one, or to two14:48
bbabyOne port and one protocol simplifies everything - Will this be a problem for dns vips as it uses both tcp and udp14:48
german_we need to map some of our use cases to the APi to understand if everyhting is supported14:48
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rm_workbbaby: i think typically "TCP_AND_UDP" together is defined as a protocol?14:49
sbalukoffbbaby: Careful-- they're using 'load balancer' to mean something not discussed in this list.14:49
rm_worksomeone else can correct me if that is wrong14:49
bloganbbaby if that is required another load balancer can share the same vip and use the same port as long as one is tcp and the other is udp14:49
sbalukoffgerman_: That would be helpful, too!14:49
rm_workblogan: ah, is that how we take care of that use case?14:50
bloganbaby: or what rm_work said14:50
sbalukoffblogan: Again, please define 'load balancer' before going down this rabbit hole.14:50
enikanorovrm_work: why to think about the cases beside l7 switching?14:50
rm_worksbalukoff: i don't know how that term causes so much confusion? but we will do so14:50
enikanorovrm_work: are you putting L7 out of roadmap?14:50
blogansbalukoff: load balancer being defined as how this api proposal uses it14:50
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rm_workenikanorov: no! it is specifically handled there14:50
sbalukoffrm_work: It causes confusion because we've being using it to mean something else for the several weeks we've been having this discussion here. :)14:51
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rm_workenikanorov: so then, why ELSE would we need multiple pools? if L7 switching is the only reason, then the definition as it is takes care of that requirement14:51
sbalukoffrm_work: This actually was the main reason we put together that glossary page!14:51
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rm_worksbalukoff: i mean, a load balancer is a load balancer. what else does it mean? use the definition from
rm_worki don't think we use it any different14:51
german_listener :-)14:51
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enikanorovrm_work: so, the thing is that pool is just a pool, not a two kinds, one in 'default' section and another in 'content-switching'14:52
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rm_workenikanorov: it is not two different kinds of pool. they are literally the same object type14:52
enikanorovpool, say, could be reused potentially by different VIPs14:52
ptoohillThey are the same thing14:52
sbalukoffrm_work: I don't care whose definition you use as long as you define it. There are clearly different things meant with how you're using it versus how this group has been using it.14:52
enikanorovi mean that i'd like to define them in the same way14:52
rm_worksbalukoff: if that is the case then the group should have defined it before, because my understanding of the term LoadBalancer has not changed in the past year or so14:53
blogani dont think debating about the name load balancer versus listener, or the single api call is the big problems we whould discuss14:53
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bloganthat can be resolved later if this goes forward, if it doesn't then there's no point in debating it14:53
rm_worksbalukoff: so apparently I have been misunderstanding the term loadbalancer as used by this group for the past months14:53
bloganwhat enikanorov broguth up about the single pool versus multiple pool should be worth the time for debate14:54
german_'s why the glossary came into existence14:54
crc32Single API call seems pretty important to me though.14:54
enikanorovok, folks14:54
sbalukoffblogan: If we're not using consistent definitions, then this discussion tends to go nowhere. We've had a few months to confirm this and hence a glossary was invented. Do we really need to do it again?14:54
enikanorovon slightly different matter14:54
enikanorovhere's a patch
enikanorovthat implements 'loadbalancer instance'14:54
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enikanorovI can embed there simple support for 'single call' API14:54
enikanorovin fact, it would be simpler than suggested in your doc14:55
enikanorovbut it still will cover somve simple cases14:55
rm_worksbalukoff: well, apparently no one defined loadbalancer on the glossary to begin with, which is an oversight. (I think everyone all assumed their definition was the obvious one). you seem to be using this fact to attack the current proposal specifically....14:55
rm_worklet's define it on the glossary and move on14:55
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bloganrm_work: there is a load balancer definition14:55
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rm_workoh, ok yes, i missed it14:56
rm_work…. and the definition there is EXACTLY how we are using it14:56
rm_workso i don't see the problem? sbalukoff ?14:56
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german_let's get some action items14:56
bloganrm_work: not exactly, it maps to multiple pools (and ours does with L7 switching), and it maps to multiple ports14:56
bloganrm_work: which ours doesn't without creating another load balancer14:57
rm_workit doesn't say that necessarily14:57
enikanorovrm_work: i believe it was defined in the glossary, no?14:57
rm_work"An object that represent a logical load balancer that may have multiple resources such as Vips, Pools, Members, etc."14:57
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rm_workit doesn't say "multiple of each" anywhere14:57
rm_workjust that it has multiple resources, including those14:57
bloganrm_work: you may be right14:57
crc32sbalukoff: Can you continue to work on the SSL L7 side of the API your advocating. Were pretty flexible and would like to see your ideas. And by ideas could you provide examples of the rest calls and the object model. I agree they are tightly integrated but defining only one side leaves the other side open to interpretation.14:57
rm_workand that it is the root object14:57
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sbalukoffcrc32: I'd be happy to!14:58
rm_workthough I'm not sure why it includes members, since in every definition we've seen, they have been within a pool not directly within the LB14:58
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german_#action sbalukoff  work on the SSL L7 side of the API14:59
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sbalukoffrm_work: Agreed, members should be subordinate only to pools.14:59
rm_workanyway, sbalukoff if you could expand on how you think we are using the term differently? i really do not understand -- i promise i am not trying to be difficult :(14:59
enikanorov#action sbalukoff to prepare API for SSL and L714:59
crc32sbalukoff: it looks like you were thinking of the same thing I was with your concept of front-end back-end certs. I think we should use that instead of DecryptSSL and ReEncryptSSL.14:59
sbalukoffrm_work: Looks like I'll have to do that on the mailing list.14:59
sbalukoffWe're out of time.14:59
rm_worksbalukoff: ok :(14:59
rm_workI will look for that14:59
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enikanorovok folks, we need to wrap up15:00
obondarevI'd also like to remind about backward compatibility (which apparently seems not required now but still is a very nice thing to have) while developing new API/object models15:00
enikanorovthanks everyone15:00
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rm_workand sorry for being half-blind this morning and missing it entirely on my first pass of the page :P15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Apr 17 15:00:38 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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eglynn#startmeeting ceilometer15:00
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openstackMeeting started Thu Apr 17 15:00:52 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eglynn. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
eglynnwelcome all :)15:01
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nealphthin crowd today. :)15:01
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eglynnnealph: yeah, just thinking15:02
eglynnk, we got quorem methinks15:02
eglynn#topic icehouse released!15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "icehouse released! (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:02
eglynnhigh-fives & bear-hugs all round, spark up those cigars :)15:02
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eglynnwe needed a last-minute RC3 for that bug with the SNMP load averages15:03
eglynn... luckily ttx was in an adventrous mood! ;)15:03
dhellmanngood work, everyone!15:03
eglynnyeap, let the mutual back-slapping begin! ;)15:04
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jd__thanks everyone15:04
jd__it was a great cycle :)15:04
llu-laptopsorry for that SNMP bug, I didn't catch that when rebasing Toni's snmp work15:04
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eglynnand thank you jd__ for all the cat-wrangling :)15:04
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eglynnllu-laptop: np, I figured that ... also I +1'd the patch15:04
eglynn... or is the phrase cat-herding?15:05
nealpheither is applicable in this case, methinks.15:05
eglynn#topic recap on ongoing TC gap analysis for ceilometer15:06
*** openstack changes topic to "recap on ongoing TC gap analysis for ceilometer (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:06
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eglynnwe had the gap analysis action plan review on Tuesday evening15:06
eglynnhere's the action plan etherpad, with actions & designated owners etc15:07
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eglynnTL;DR: the TC approved of the plan, but expect to see definite progress on closing gaps in Juno15:07
eglynn... esp. re the Tempest-related gaps15:08
eglynn... we need to frontload progress onto j1 or latest j215:08
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eglynn... not to pile on the pressure or anything ;)15:08
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nealpheglynn:how can non-owners pitch in?15:08
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nealphi.e. those not assigned to the etherpad items15:09
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eglynnnealph: contirbuting to the summit sessions, picking up BPs, landing patches ... the usual way15:09
nealphbut willing to help...15:09
ildikovnealph: these are just the areas15:09
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eglynnnealph: ... the term "owner" wasn't meant to be exclusive15:09
nprivalovanealph: I think "owners" is just a person to punish :)15:10
nealphsure, okay. was really asking if there was a separate process for these gaps...answer is "no".15:10
ildikovnealph: there will corresponding BPs, tasks, that you can assign to yourself, so the names are the responsibles for the whole area15:10
nprivalovanealph: and they need help anyway :)15:10
eglynnnealph: ... the idea was more to reassure the TC that the items wouldn't fall thru the cracks15:11
eglynnnealph: ... not to ringfence off tasks only for certain contributors15:11
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eglynnnprivalova: ... bad choice of words on my part, not very open-source-y15:12
eglynnnealph: ^^^15:12
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nealpheglynn:cool..."a single neck to wring". :)15:12
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eglynnLOL :)15:13
ildikovBTW, if anyone has ideas/questions/topics to talk about for the Mike Bayer SQLA session on the summit, pleasee add a note to this etherpad: #link
eglynndhellmann: yep, that's better ... will change it15:13
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eglynnoverriding message: lets commit to closing off these gaps during Juno15:14
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eglynnk, moving on?15:16
eglynn#topic f20-based gating for ceilo/py27, also possibly a tempest-mongodb variant15:16
*** openstack changes topic to "f20-based gating for ceilo/py27, also possibly a tempest-mongodb variant (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:16
eglynnso basically the mongo scenario tests only run in the py26 job on centos :(15:16
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eglynnsince py27 is our "primary" check job, we need the mongo tests running under 27 also15:17
eglynninitial idea is to rebase this on Fedora 2015:17
nprivalovaAFAIK, Ubuntu 14 is comming and will have Mongo15:17
eglynnnprivalova: true, but we don't have a tight time constraint on the Trusty switchover for the gate15:18
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eglynnnprivalova: switch over is happening today?15:18
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eglynnnprivalova: ... I thought it was more "sometime during the Juno cycle"15:19
nprivalovaeglynn: no, it's released today. switching will take 2-8 weeks15:19
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nprivalovawe may ask infra15:19
eglynnnprivalova: AFAIK there are new f20 nodes coming on stream very soon in the gate nodepool for tripleO testing15:19
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eglynnso we could be up and motoring with an f20-based py27 job for ceilo within days potentially15:20
nprivalovasounds great15:20
nprivalovaand for tempest?15:21
eglynnnprivalova: for tempest, we could do similar assuming the py27 job proves itself15:21
eglynnnprivalova: ... i.e. an f20 or event centos7-based mongodb variant of the tempest job15:22
jd__that's cool but that does not bridge any gap15:22
* jd__ party killer15:22
gordceglynn: how do gates work with f20 and ubuntu14? they just gate randomly on either OS?15:22
eglynngordc: jobs will be target'd to one or the other is my understanding15:23
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gordceglynn: i see.15:23
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eglynnjd__:  potentially the blocked tempest tests could then land, if decorated as "slow running tests" or whatever so not run agains sqla15:23
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nprivalovaI think we need to determine plan for tempest. Are we going to make sql driver work faster :)? Or we will test only Mongo (assuming it's fast enough)?15:23
eglynnjd__: so gaps bridged initially = [py27 scenarios on mongo, wider tempest coverage for mongo only]15:24
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eglynnnprivalova: yes we need to fix sqla as well15:24
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nprivalovaeglynn: running tempest for Mongo only will fill the gap?15:25
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gordcnprivalova: i think a data model rework will allow sql to function with tempest... postgres works right now no?15:26
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eglynnnprivalova: well the idea was to have "main tempest job" still run against sqla with the slow tests excluded15:26
eglynnnprivalova: ... and also a "variant tempest job" run against mongo will all tests enabled15:26
nprivalovagordc: will check that. cannot say right now15:26
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eglynnnprivalova: ... same as we have a variant tempest run against postgres currently, right?15:27
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nprivalovaeglynn: it's running against postgres, right. And once it was successful. I will check that ASAP15:28
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eglynnnprivalova: ... yeah so I meant the principal of having variants of the tempest jobs targeted to different DBs (mysql versus postgres) is already established practice15:29
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eglynnnprivalova: ... /me is hoping that'll allow us to argue the case with infra for an extra tempest job based on mongo15:29
nprivalovaeglynn: right, I see15:29
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eglynnbut I think first step is just get py27 running on f20 with mongo scenarios actually tested15:30
eglynnmaybe even make that new py27 job non-voting for a short transition period?15:30
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eglynnthen disable the old py27 job after a couple of days15:31
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eglynn... /me is not familiar with negotiating with infra folks, nprivalova prolly has a better sense of what they might agree to?15:31
gordceglynn: i had some people from Percona (a MySQL company) ask me where they can contribute to Ceilometer in regards to MySQL. maybe they can look at sql backend for us (so we don't need to abandon it)15:32
nprivalovaeglynn: ok, will try to talk to them15:32
eglynnnprivalova: thanks!15:32
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nprivalovaeglynn: you may create #action on me15:32
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eglynngordc: yeah jd__ forwarded me a note from Matt Griffin also, sounds promising!15:33
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gordceglynn: cool cool. same email probably.15:33
eglynn#action nprivalova reach out to infra to discuss rebasing ceilo/py27 check job on f2015:34
eglynngordc: cool15:34
eglynnprolly should move on15:34
nealphnprivalova:eglynn:I thought there was some thought around schema the percona discussion related, or a new approach?15:34
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gordcnealph: i told them to join the schema re-architecting session.15:35
eglynnnealph: my understanding is that we hope they'll have some good domain knowledge for rationalizing our SQL schema15:35
eglynnyep wot gordc said15:35
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eglynn#topic Tempest integration15:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Tempest integration (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:36
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eglynnnprivalova: anything extra to add to the f20/sqla/mongo discussion above?15:36
nprivalovawe've already discussed several thing above. I can add that we've started to implement alarm-scenario test15:37
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eglynnnprivalova: cool, thanks!15:37
eglynn#topic Release python-ceilometerclient?15:37
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*** openstack changes topic to "Release python-ceilometerclient? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:37
eglynnno need15:37
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eglynnAFAIK anyway15:37
eglynn#topic New alternate meeting time slot, replacing the Wed 2100UTC15:38
*** openstack changes topic to "New alternate meeting time slot, replacing the Wed 2100UTC (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:38
eglynnso this was mooted at last week's meeting15:38
eglynnbut deferred since we didn't really have quorem then15:38
nprivalova2100UTC is now :)?15:38
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eglynnyep with DST esp, the Wed meeting is getting pretty late for Europe15:38
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eglynn... 10pm Dublin, 11pm continental Europe, 1am Moscow15:39
eglynnI've a vague notion that the alternating slot was to facilitate our then active core from Australia?15:39
llu-laptopnprivalova: I think now is 15:39UTC15:39
nprivalovallu-laptop: thanks, true15:39
jd__eglynn: it was15:39
jd__tsss nprivalova :)15:40
eglynnyeah so Melbourne is UTC+10 now (UTC+11 in their summer) hence the need15:40
jd__we can drop the alternative time if nobody objects15:40
jd__and I won't.15:40
nprivalovaso I would be happy to change time a little15:40
eglynnjd__: yeah good timeslot to reflect current contributor timezones15:40
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gordcthis time works for me.15:41
eglynngordc: Toronto is EST/EDT (UTC-5/4) right?15:41
llu-laptopjd__: that means UTC15 all? That's fine to me15:41
eglynnllu-laptop: China is UTC+8 all year round?15:41
gordcits 10/11am for me in toronto15:41
llu-laptopeglynn: yep15:41
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* nealph trying to do the math to US mountain time15:41
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jd__that's now basically, nealph , if you're there :)15:42
eglynnllu-laptop: so 15UTC == 2300 CST, not too late for you?15:42
nprivalovaeglynn: do you suggest a new time? I'm lost15:42
eglynnnprivalova: suggestion is to just go with a single slot same every week15:42
jd__what about Sunday? No I'm not trying to scramble your minds15:43
gordcnprivalova: this time slot15:43
* nealph feels better that someone else wasn't tracking...15:43
nprivalovagordc: 15UTC?15:43
gordcjd__: i'd love to work on sunday.15:43
llu-laptopeglynn: i can live with that. at least it's much better than 21UTC15:43
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gordcnprivalova: yep15:44
jd__gordc: I'm sure nobody will object if you do15:44
ildikovjd__: Sunday is my favourite workday too ;)15:44
eglynn... do we have any West Coast US contributors?15:44
llu-laptopeglynn: but if someone try to move it early, happy to do that :)15:44
nealpheglynn:will likely have some joining in the near future15:44
gordcjd__: it's agreed that everyone will be hungover for sunday's meeting right?lol15:44
eglynnllu-laptop: great thanks!15:44
jd__gordc: I nod15:44
eglynnnealph: so 1500UTC == 0700PST, outrageously early?15:44
nealpheglynn: I don't think so....can't be ideal for everyone.15:45
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eglynnnealph: k, thaaks!15:46
eglynnso I think we've converged on a rough consensus15:46
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eglynn#agreed move to a single weekly meeting timeslot at 1500UTC15:46
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eglynnsince we've already got this channel every second week, we shouldn't need to move to the -alt meeting channel either15:47
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eglynn#topic summit sessions15:48
*** openstack changes topic to "summit sessions (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:48
eglynnquick reminder folks, we're coming up fast against the deadline for proposals15:48
eglynn... weirdly that's Easter Sunday this year (april 20th)15:48
eglynn(... speaking of working on Sundays)15:48
eglynnso if you've something in mind, please knock out a proposal15:49
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* jd__ did15:49
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* eglynn thanks jd__ :)15:49
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eglynnwhile we already have more proposals than slots, there'll be some trimming of that current list15:50
eglynn(for dupes, merges etc.)15:50
jd__dunnow if you read my long rant, but maybe that may pop a new session, don't know15:50
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eglynnjd__: I did and I was gonna suggest just that15:50
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eglynnjd__: ... on the unadorned metric time series data etc.15:51
jd__now I'm going to have pressure to work on that until th summit15:51
eglynnjd__: ... sounds great and defo needs to be discussed, but obviously cross-over with the data model session too?15:51
jd__maybe having one session is enough15:52
jd__I think it depends on how many slot you can use for that15:52
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eglynnjd__: or give ourselves the option to slip over into another half-slot possibly15:52
eglynnk, let's see how the final proposal list looks on the 20th, then we can do the horse-trading as necessary15:53
* jd__ nods15:53
eglynn#topic open discussion15:54
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:54
nealpheglynn: data model session =
eglynnnealph: exactomundo!15:55
mattgriffinnealph, eglynn: just wrapped up another meeting and catching up in the discussion15:55
mattgriffinwould like to see where percona can help on this15:55
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eglynnmattgriffin: your input during that session in ATL would be great!15:57
gordcmattgriffin: i'm tied to this work... i'm more than happy to secretly defer work to you guys :)15:57
mattgriffineglynn, cool. is there any more context or issues reported that would be good to prep for ATL?15:57
mattgriffingordc, :)15:57
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gordcmattgriffin: there were a few mailing list items regarding ceilometer and tempest in march i believe... that might give some background.15:58
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mattgriffingordc, cool15:59
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eglynngordc: could you and Alexei put together a quick etherpad in advance of the session, with links to relevant ML threads etc.?15:59
eglynn(so that mattgriffin has a single source for background?)15:59
eglynngordc: thank you sir!15:59
eglynnk, we're up against the shot clock here folks16:00
eglynnI'll wrap up as it's the top of hour, assuming no one has anything else pressing?16:00
eglynnthanks folks for a productive meeting! :)16:01
eglynn#endmeeting ceilometer16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:01
openstackMeeting ended Thu Apr 17 16:01:20 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:01
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bdpayne#startmeeting OpenStack Security Group18:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Apr 17 18:01:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bdpayne. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_security_group'18:01
bdpayne#topic Roll Call18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:01
bdpayneo/ everyone18:01
* hyakuhei from HP is here!18:01
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bknudsonbdpayne: hi18:01
shohel02o /18:01
bdpayneexcellent, nice group18:01
bdpayne#topic Agenda18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Agenda (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:01
bdpayneWhat would people like to discuss today?18:01
dgraves_Hi.  I’m David Graves, new here.  I’ve been running the threat analysis program for HP Public Cloud for three years.18:02
bknudsonanything but heartbleed18:02
bdpaynehi, welcome!18:02
nkinderHi dgraves_18:02
hyakuheibknudson: what's heartbleed? Sounds scary18:02
bdpaynelol... !heartbleed, I can support that18:02
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nkinderbdpayne: I can give a small update on OSSN publishing18:02
chair6still think it should've been called sleepbleed..18:02
paulmoPaul Montgomery here18:02
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hyakuheiHey paulmo18:02
nkinderhey paulmo18:03
hyakuheiI'd like to discuss what the focus of the OSSG should be for the next 6 months18:03
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bdpaynesounds juicy18:03
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elo1Eric here...18:03
elo1its been awhile..18:03
bdpaynealso a brief sync on OSSN-0010 would be good18:03
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bdpayneok, so let's get rolling18:04
bdpayneI'll leave room at the bottom for additional discussion if people come up with other things18:04
bdpayne#topic OSSNs18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "OSSNs (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:04
bdpayneSo right now I believe the only outstanding OSSN is 1018:04
nkinderIt's on my list to review today18:04
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bdpaynethe recent changes look good18:04
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bdpaynejust needs one more core review18:05
nkinderI've been out at a conference all week, so finally catching up again18:05
bdpaynealso, do we have the process for publishing a OSSN listed anywhere?18:05
chair6^ for the record .. pretty much beaten to death at this point, so let's get it out18:05
nkinderYes, I have it documented on the wiki (link coming)18:05
nkinderchair6: I'm also happy to publish it if you like18:05
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bdpaynewe have lot on the wiki... we should work to make it all easier to find... perhaps organize the content links from a common security landing page18:06
hyakuheiI'm happy with 0010 - I've +2'd it but as I work with Jamie, someone else should approve18:06
* bdpayne is just thinking out loud18:06
nkinderhyakuhei: I'll do it right after the meeting18:06
chair6nkinder: sounds good, yours to publish18:06
nkinderok.  FYI for the publishing details -
bdpayneok, I'm sure the next topic will be lengthy, so I'll keep us moving along here18:07
bdpayneah, thanks18:07
hyakuheiI just realised that is waiting for me to write up18:07
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1271426 in ossn "protected property change not rejected if a subsequent rule match accepts them" [High,Confirmed]18:07
bdpayne#topic OSSG Plans for Juno18:07
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bdpaynehyakuhei take it away ;-)18:07
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hyakuheiThanks bdpayne18:07
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hyakuheiSo a little while ago I sent around a work topics email with some 5-6 things that I thought we could look into18:08
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hyakuheiSince then I've spoken with a bunch of people from the OSSG, and the feeling is that we don't quite have the resource to attack all of these things at once18:08
nkinderI think that's pretty accurate18:09
hyakuheiWe should pick a few to focus on, at the moment I think Security Guide updates / edits - OSSNs and perhaps threat analysis seem like the best candidates.18:09
bdpayneyeah, I like that18:09
bdpaynespecifically, I like those three18:09
hyakuheiTo that end, if people feel these are good places to focus on and really excel, I'd like to look at having individuals lead each one of those three18:09
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dgraves_I’d like to start contributing directly to the OpenStack threat analysis project.18:10
shohel02welcome david18:10
nkinderI've already focused on OSSN stuff, so I'd be happy to lead that area18:10
bdpayneI know that we have a 3-person team setup to serve of book editors18:10
dgraves_(In the past I was working through others; when a threat analysis review found defects, the HP service team would contribute the fix to OpenStack)18:10
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bdpaynehowever, progress has stagnated18:10
hyakuheiThere's good reasons to do these, they build credability in the OpenStack community and also enable us to get more involved with developers, we need as a group, to get closer to most of the lead devs18:10
hyakuheibdpayne: I'd like to help with the book work but I don't want to lead efforts in that area.18:11
bdpayneI am willing to take on leading that and trying to push the book work forward, but would want to sync with those other people first18:11
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shohel02i would be happy to work/lead in threat analysis work18:11
hyakuheishohel02: you and dgraves_ should probably exchange contact details - I think you've got a bunch to talk about :)18:11
hyakuheibdpayne: makes sense18:11
shohel02yes, david we should18:12
bdpaynehyakuhei yeah, I don't think you should lead any of the efforts... just leading OSSG will keep you plenty busy ;-)18:12
hyakuheibdpayne: +118:12
CristianF_I would be happy to continue contributing with threat model effort also18:12
hyakuheiI'm really keen to see where that goes18:12
shohel02+1 for Cristian18:12
hyakuheiI also want to make sure that the threat work gets a _lot_ of support from the wider OSSG18:13
bdpaynesounds like we have some teams forming here, which is great18:13
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hyakuheiGreat - so I'll follow up with an email about this shortly18:13
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bdpaynehyakuhei perhaps you could coordinate to get some updates to the security wiki pages with specific pages highlighting the work in each of these areas?18:13
hyakuheiThat seems like a good idea.18:14
dgraves_Shohel, are you the one at Ericsson in Finland?18:14
hyakuhei#action hyakuhei to email team-focus stuff18:14
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hyakuhei#action hyakuhei to update security wiki with this information18:15
hyakuheiSomeone else take some actions :P18:15
hyakuheiSo the security guidelines are still outstanding18:15
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hyakuheiLargely because of the bug that shall not be named.18:15
bdpayne#action bdpayne to sync with book editor team and find a path forward18:15
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hyakuheiIs it worth us doing as we have before, putting together a list of all the security-relevant design sessions?18:17
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hyakuheiIdeally we want OSSG people in basically all design sessions but we will have to prioritize18:17
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bdpaynewe could certainly do that18:18
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bdpaynebut I'm not sure if people find it useful18:18
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hyakuheiI don't think I've got much to add - maybe shohel02 can give an update on the Threat work for the wider OSSG ?18:18
bdpayneoh, there will be an ossg design session18:18
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bdpaynewe should have a brief summit discussion in this meeting18:19
bdpayne#topic Threat Work Update18:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Threat Work Update (Meeting topic: OpenStack Security Group)"18:19
bdpaynefirst, let's discuss the threat work18:19
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shohel02Ok, so our ongoing, but we have raised the issue of landing the content18:19
shohel02last week sent the email, and i guess more or less it is landing in security guide18:20
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shohel02what do you guys think18:20
hyakuheiI think the guide makes a lot of sense18:20
bknudsonlike in appendix?18:20
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bdpayneI think that there will be some output from that work that will fit nicely in the guide18:21
hyakuheiWith OSSN/OSSA for actionable output18:21
bdpaynebut we'll probably want to see what the specific content looks like to understand if it is a new section or an appendix or ??18:21
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hyakuheiI was wondering what would work best for documented output - chapter sections (one for each services that has a TM) or a wider TM chapter18:21
hyakuheiI'm feeling the former, even though that's slightly more work18:21
shohel02appendix is  a good place, because there will be final report and lot of intermediate report for component analysis18:22
nkinderI was thinking one chapter or paper per service18:22
nkinderIt might be larger than an appendix item IMHO18:22
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bdpaynewe do have chapters on the services now, so it could fit within that chapter potentially, as well18:22
bdpaynelots of options18:22
hyakuheiIt's possible that we are getting ahead of ourselves here, maybe when the output from the first TM is complete, we'll have a better idea for how it will fit18:22
bdpaynebut I'm happy to work with the threat analysis team to see how that shakes out18:23
hyakuheimakes sense bdpayne18:23
bknudsonI was also thinking put it in with each service...18:23
bdpayneyeah, I gree18:23
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bknudsonjust looking at the chapters that we have18:23
shohel02ok, the second thing is quality control, we are talking last time18:23
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shohel02now that we have big team i think it will be eaiser18:23
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CristianF_besides the final output of the threat analysis, how would the tracking/reviews be done? gerrit?18:24
nkinderformal reviews through gerrit should help18:24
nkinderCristianF_: yes, my vote would be to use gerrit for it18:24
hyakuheiSo my dream is that this process will evolve to the point that large OpenStack deployers will be using this as their primary threat analysis and just performing delta/satellite reviews for their internal secret sauce.18:24
hyakuheis/using/contributing to/18:24
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shohel02regarding the gerrit/ common repo can we start using security guides repo18:25
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shohel02or what needs to be done from our side18:26
bdpaynewe should probably discuss offline18:26
bdpaynethat may not make sense18:26
bdpaynebut I want to understand more details first18:26
bknudsonyou might want a topic branch that you can work in18:27
bdpayne#topic Summit18:27
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bdpayneI'd like to chat briefly about the summit18:27
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bdpayneThere is an OSSH focused design session this time18:27
bdpayneplease plan to attend18:28
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bdpayneI'm hoping that this will be a great way to get us talking with some of the various projects18:28
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bdpayneand for us to coordinate a bit more in person18:28
hyakuheiI'm really looking forward to that18:28
bdpaynethere is, of course, also many security talks at the summit... largely on Monday18:28
paulmoIronically, that site has security warnings :)18:28
bknudsonI hope it doesn't conflict with another keystone session18:28
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hyakuheiNice to not be at the end of the week for once - attrition at the summit is terrible18:29
bdpayneyeah, I haven't seen the dev summit schedule yet18:29
bknudsononly the cross-project sessions have been accepted18:29
bdpaynethere is also an operators group meeting going on in the unconference that will have a security discussion18:29
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bknudsonotherwise the sessions are still open until the 20th18:29
bdpayneI will be involved in leading that discussion18:29
bdpayne#topic Open Discussion18:30
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bdpayneFor those in the bay area, you might find this meetup to be interesting18:31
bdpaynefeaturing some great speakers like myself and nkinder :-)18:31
chair6on the 'coordinate a bit more' note .. do we have an OSSG irc room that everyone idles away their time in?18:31
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nkinderchair6: nope.  We could use openstack-dev18:31
bdpaynewe don't have a specific room for that, but I do hang out in openstack-dev and openstack-doc18:31
shohel02good idea18:31
hyakuheiWe probably have enough membership to do that now18:32
bdpaynefeel free to mention me in there18:32
chair6k, just curious .. maybe openstack-sec could come to life one day18:32
hyakuheimight be interesting to do that so people have somewhere to drop in18:32
nkinderIt's nice to have things where others will see thenm though18:32
bdpaynesounds like something for hyakuhei to investigate ;-)18:32
hyakuheiDead rooms make me sad on the inside though.18:32
bdpayneyeah, this is true18:32
bdpaynelet's use -dev and see how that goes18:32
hyakuheiOk, I've got to go jump on a call18:33
paulmoJust bringing this up again: Anything that can give the OSSG some "teeth" in enforcing security requirements would be a very big help.18:33
hyakuheionly problem with -dev is there's no easy way to know who is - or isn't - OSSG18:33
bdpayneeh, I think that's ok18:33
bdpaynewe'll be the people that care about security18:33
hyakuheipaulmo: We need more credability and to integrate more tightly with development teams first18:33
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hyakuheithough I certainly agree with your point.18:34
bdpayneyeah, and we are moving in those directions18:34
paulmoI'm on a dev team and even I can't get security requirements into my own project.18:34
bdpaynebut it's slow18:34
bdpaynewhich is just the nature of a big open source community18:34
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hyakuheipaulmo: mail me and lets talk about that, I'd like to understand your issues18:34
shohel02heartbleed+++  probably make more attention , just kidding18:34
bdpayneok, I think that's all we have time for today18:35
bdpaynethanks everyone for a productive meeting18:35
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:35
openstackMeeting ended Thu Apr 17 18:35:28 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:35
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mtreinish#startmeeting qa22:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Apr 17 22:00:25 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"22:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'22:00
mtreinishhi who do we have here today?22:00
mtreinish^^^ Today's agenda22:00
sdagueall hail the juno PLT! :)22:01
mtreinishthanks, I guess the torch was passed today wasn't it22:02
mtreinishwell let's get started22:02
mtreinish#topic  Summit sessions (mtreinish)22:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit sessions (mtreinish) (Meeting topic: qa)"22:02
mtreinishso I just wanted to remind people that if they have session proposals the deadline for is the 20th22:03
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mtreinishso make sure you get your session proposals in before then22:03
sdagueI'll do write ups in the morning for my 222:03
mtreinishsdague: ok thanks22:03
sdaguemy english skills are mostly faded for the day22:03
mtreinishthat's fine22:04
mtreinishmasayukig: also you had an entry in the etherpad22:04
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masayukigYes, I've added a proposal of Tempest GUI.22:04
mtreinishcan you add it to the tool?22:04
mtreinishmasayukig: yeah the diagram looked cool22:04
masayukigmtreinish: Thanks :022:04
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mtreinishthe only other session proposal in the etherpad that didn't have an entry in the tool was mlavalle yfried__22:05
mtreinishI'll ping them about it tomorrow22:05
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mtreinishI plan to have a discussion about the session at the next meeting22:05
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mtreinishafter the list of proposal is finalized22:05
mtreinishdoes anyone have anything else about summit sessions?22:06
sdaguewhere is discussion on qa-specs going to slot in?22:06
mtreinishI was planning to discuss it in the juno policy session I was going to have22:07
mtreinishI don't think we'll have enough slots for a dedicated session22:07
sdaguethat's not in the list yet right?22:07
mtreinishno although it's in the tool22:07
mtreinishI'll add it to the etherpad22:07
sdagueok, cool22:07
sdagueit doesnt' really need to be in the etherpad22:08
mtreinishthat's what I thought too :)22:08
mtreinishI was probably going to make that the last session for the qa track22:08
mtreinishok lets move on then22:08
oomichihow many slots for qa in the summit?22:08
mtreinishoomichi: it's looking like we'll have 10 slots for qa22:09
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mtreinishwhich is down 3 from HK22:09
mtreinish#topic Oslo Liaison (mtreinish)22:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Oslo Liaison (mtreinish) (Meeting topic: qa)"22:09
oomichithanks, I got it.22:09
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mtreinishso the oslo guys are looking for people from the other projects to be focal points as the convert things to libs22:10
mtreinishand to keep up with oslo stuff22:10
mtreinishfor better cross team communication22:10
mtreinishI figured we should have someone from the tempest-core group also on that list22:10
mtreinishdoes anyone want to volunteer?22:10
mtreinishwell I'll take that as a TODO then22:11
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mtreinish#action mtreinish to find a volunteer to be oslo liason22:12
mtreinishok if no one is going to volunteer today22:12
mtreinishlet's move on22:12
sdagueget people to sign up at summit with promise of beer :)22:12
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mtreinishsdague: that's not a bad idea22:13
mtreinish#topic Blueprints22:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)"22:13
mtreinishI guess let's start with the specs review first22:13
mtreinishit looks like we have 4 specs without a -122:14
sdaguewith the release this week, I was lazy on qa-specs22:14
mtreinishand one of those has a +2 from dkranz22:14
dkranzmtreinish: So I started the run-as-non-admin one even though it has not yet been approved22:14
mtreinishdkranz: yeah we need to get more eyes on these22:14
mtreinishI'll make another pass through them tonight or tomorrow22:15
sdagueI'll take a pass on monday, I expect tomorrow is mostly going to be recovery22:15
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oomichiI also will see it22:15
mtreinishdkranz: I'd still like to see a +2 from someone else before I +A something22:15
sdaguemtreinish: you should probably approve my blueprint now that you land the spec as well22:15
mtreinishsdague: oh yeah that's probably a good idea :)22:15
mtreinishoomichi: ok thanks22:16
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sdaguemtreinish: you going to send out the email announcing qa-specs and process to people?22:16
mtreinishyeah I plan to do that tomorrow22:16
sdagueI think we've got enough examples now22:16
dkranzmtreinish: I think we are dealing a little with the fact that approval used to be yeah, yeah, click the button22:16
mtreinishsdague: yeah 3 is probably enough22:16
dkranzmtreinish: And now requires much more work from reviewers22:16
mtreinishdkranz: yeah I think that's part of it22:17
mtreinishpeople aren't used to looking at this on a regular basis yet22:17
dkranzmtreinish: I made a bookmark :)22:17
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sdagueright, so probably specs review should be part of every meeting. And everyone needs to try to keep on top of those.22:17
mtreinishsdague: yeah I'm going to make it a separate agenda item moving forward22:18
sdaguealso should encourage anyone to help review these22:18
sdagueeven if not core22:18
sdagueall comments are good22:18
mtreinishyeah definitely22:18
mtreinishI'll make that part of the email22:18
mtreinish#action mtreinish to send an email about qa-specs to the ML22:19
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mtreinishok I think we can go onto bp status now, unless someone has something more to discuss about the specs review22:19
mtreinishso on the agenda there was a bp linked22:19
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mtreinishoomichi: ^^^ I think that's yours right22:20
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mtreinishdid you put it on the agenda?22:20
dkranzmtreinish: I put that there22:20
mtreinishdkranz: oh ok22:20
mtreinishdkranz: go ahead then22:20
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dkranzmtreinish: There was an issue in reviews about the status of extra keys added to a return dict22:20
dkranzmtreinish: and whether the schema should allow additoinalProperties or not22:20
dkranzTHere was a comment that it would be easier to extend if we allowed properties to be added22:21
dkranzBut the stability guidelines say you need an extension for that22:21
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dkranzoomichi: Do you have a comment about that?22:21
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mtreinishdkranz: to add something to the body you need an extension22:21
mtreinishdoesn't jsonschema allow for inheritance or something similar though22:21
mtreinishjaypipes: was talking about that before on the ML22:21
oomichidkranz: do you mean schema should block non dict data?22:21
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dkranzoomichi: The issue I think was whether our validation should accept extra values or insist on a specific set22:22
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dkranzIf we don't set additionalProperties to False then new keys can be added without failing the test.22:22
sdaguedo we have a feeling on how the nova team feels about it?22:23
oomichidkranz: yes, right. and the default value of additionalProperties is True.22:23
dkranzoomichi: exactly22:23
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oomichiso now validation accepts extra attributes.22:23
dkranzsdague: I'm not sure but we should find out22:23
dkranzsdague: Because some schemas have already gone in.22:24
dkranzsdague: I only noticed this recently22:24
sdagueok, maybe something to queue up for the nova meeting next week?22:24
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dkranzDo we have one of us that attends there as well?22:24
mtreinishsdague: yeah that's probably a good idea22:24
sdaguewell it's an hour before this one22:24
sdaguewe should get a volunteer for that22:25
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mtreinishdkranz: do you want to drive that on the nova meeting?22:25
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dkranzmtreinish: ok22:25
mtreinishit's a bit early for oomichi right?22:25
mtreinishdkranz: cool thanks22:25
sdaguethe nova meeting does do a morning EST one too22:25
sdagueoomichi: are you on that one?22:25
oomichia little for me:-(22:25
mtreinish#action dkranz to discuss jsonschema additionalProperties on nova meeting22:26
sdagueoomichi: what about when they flip to late meeting for you?22:26
dkranzmtreinish: I have some sympathy for ssaying that extra values could be added.22:26
oomichibut I will join it.22:26
dkranzI'm not sure what the difference is to say you check for an extension and then look for the value22:26
oomichi6:00am meeting.22:26
dkranzvs just seeing if the value is there22:26
mtreinishsdague: it's 1400 or 2100 UTC22:26
sdaguedkranz: the theory is that it's discoverable in advance22:27
dkranzsdague: sure, but is the real value of that compensating for extension hell over time?22:27
jaypipesmtreinish: yes, jsonschema allows to specify another schema doc.22:27
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dkranzsdague: I'm just saying it is debatable22:27
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sdaguedkranz: absolutely22:27
sdagueour current model just sucks around all this, no argument here :)22:28
dkranzsdague: BUt we really have to nail it down soon.22:28
dkranzsdague: ok, we'll see what the nova folks say22:28
sdaguejaypipes will fix it all, I have faith ;)22:28
mtreinishdkranz: ok is there anything else on this bp?22:29
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oomichiI guess so:)22:29
mtreinishok then does anyone else have a bp to bring up or discuss?22:29
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sdaguethis is very close22:30
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mtreinishsdague: ok cool22:30
mtreinishwhat's left?22:30
sdague - will make us gate tempest master on stable/icehouse22:30
sdagueall the stable/icehouse projects are gating on tempest master because of the way our branch fall through works22:30
mtreinishok, yeah that should do it22:31
sdagueand the service selection code for devstack-gate was redone so it would be sane to extend it to extensions22:31
sdaguethough the extensions work isn't done yet22:31
mtreinishok, well we shouldn't have any trouble until a new extension or feature is added22:31
sdaguethat all went into the gate22:31
dkranzsdague: What's the reason for including non-voting icehouse jobs?22:31
sdaguethey aren't non voting22:32
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dkranzsdague: the cells job?22:32
sdaguegood point22:32
sdagueI'll dump that later22:33
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sdagueI thought that had been moved to experimental, apparently missed it22:33
mtreinishdkranz: -1 it22:33
dkranzmtreinish: k22:33
sdagueyeh, clarkb wants another change as well22:34
sdagueso -1 away22:34
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mtreinishsdague: shouldn't we gate on some of those icehouse jobs too?22:34
sdaguemtreinish: with clean check, I'm less concerned about that22:34
mtreinishok yeah that's fair22:34
mtreinishit won't get to gate without it passing22:34
sdagueI figure lets try with check only for now22:35
sdagueand if we break ourselves, move more into gate22:35
mtreinishok, I was thinking maybe just the mysql full for a sanity check22:35
mtreinishbut that's fine22:35
oomichiwe are going to apply tempest/master to stable/havana also?22:35
dkranzmtreinish: I think relying on check is going to be more common going forward22:35
sdagueoomichi: if we can make it work22:36
mtreinishoomichi: it doesn't work right now22:36
dkranzmtreinish: because we can spread different configs across check22:36
sdagueit's still a little debatable if it's fully worth the time, given it eol in 5 months22:36
mtreinishoomichi: dkranz has a spec proposal in progress for that effort22:36
mtreinishI'm honestly fine with just taking this moving forward22:36
mtreinishand leaving havana a branch22:36
oomichithanks, I will see it later.22:36
dkranzsdague: Yes, one of things we have to discuss is that havana is not going eol soon for a lot of people, presumably including refstack22:37
dkranzsdague: But not now22:37
sdaguedkranz: sure22:37
oomichinow new API test, which is added since Icehouse, is in review.
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sdagueoomichi: the API is new in juno?22:38
oomichiso I guess we need some option which controlls enable/disable the API test for havana.22:38
mtreinishoomichi: hmm make sure you put an extension decorator around it then22:38
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oomichisdague: no since Icehouse. server-group API of Nova.22:38
dkranzmtreinish: I am going to look at the havana thing when I am done with the non-admin which will hopefully be soon.22:39
sdagueoomichi: if it's in icehouse, we're good still22:39
mtreinishoomichi: or is it larger scope than just an api extension?22:39
mtreinishsdague: yeah it won't fail, but we still want to make sure we properly flag things22:39
mtreinishdkranz: ok22:39
sdagueoomichi: - the theory is add the supported list of compute extensions into this mix as well22:39
sdaguethen devstack-gate will set the right extension lists per feature and branch22:40
sdaguewe'll talk about it at summit as well22:40
oomichiOK, a lot of info to me. I will check them later carefully.22:40
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mtreinishsdague: ok is there anything else on branchless tempest?22:41
mtreinishok then does anyone else have a bp to discuss?22:41
mtreinishotherwise we'll move onto the next topic22:41
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mtreinish#topic Neutron Testing22:42
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*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron Testing (Meeting topic: qa)"22:42
mtreinishso mlavalle said he couldn't make it today22:42
mtreinishbut he put an update on the agenda22:42
mtreinishthe take away is that there still 9 outstanding neutron api patches22:43
mtreinishhe pointed out 3 that have 1 +2:22:43
mtreinishthe only other thing there was he proposed another joint qa neutron session22:44
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mtreinishI guess to plan out things for juno22:44
sdaguesounds like a good idea22:44
mtreinishyeah it does22:44
mtreinishalthough I think we're in really good shape on that front compared to at the start of I22:44
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mtreinishI'll talk to mestery about that session and coordinate the scheduling for it22:45
mtreinishok does anyone else have anything to say on this topic?22:45
HenryGSlightly related ...22:45
mtreinishHenryG: sure22:46
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HenryGSo marun_afk couldn't attend today but he is planning to submit a session too22:46
rockygalso very slightly related (but more to the previous topic)  A joint Refstack/QA meeting possible?22:46
mtreinishHenryG: yeah I talked to him about that today22:47
mtreinishit's already on the etherpad22:47
dkranzHenryG: I spoke to him. He put it on the etherpad22:47
mtreinishhe said he'd put it in the tool22:47
HenryGok, cool22:47
sdaguerockyg: are you thinking of that as a design summit session?22:47
mtreinishrockyg: probably not unfortunately unless it's in other projects22:47
mtreinishrockyg: the qa track is going to be full22:47
mtreinishoh I just assumed you meant a summit session22:48
rockygNo.  Just an irc or phone conference to get some more info on how our stuff dovetails with the new, improved tempest22:48
dkranzDoes refstack have any slots22:48
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sdagueit looks like it has one -
mtreinishrockyg: yeah that's something we can do22:48
rockygWe've got one to introduce everyone to RefStack.22:48
dkranzrockyg: That would be good since I think refstack is part of what instigated this22:48
rockygSorry, Refstack.22:48
mtreinishrockyg: send an email to the ML about it22:48
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rockygWill do.22:48
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sdaguewe should make sure to try to get that to not overlap the QA track22:49
sdagueso folks here can go to the refstack one22:49
mtreinishsdague: yeah I'll talk to ttx about that (it looks like he's scheduling that track)22:49
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mtreinishok well let's move on to the next topic22:49
sdagueyeh, I just left a comment22:49
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sdaguewe could also do refstack / tempest as a lunch thing one day22:50
rockygThanks for the scheduling help22:50
rockygOooh.  I kinda like that.22:50
mtreinishsdague: yeah that would be good too22:50
mtreinish#topic Heat Testing22:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Heat Testing (Meeting topic: qa)"22:50
sdagueoh, update here22:51
rockygRefstack was supposed to be on Icehouse for the summit, but looks unlikely.22:51
mtreinishsdague: so I know we have some updates here right22:51
sdaguethe heat job is currently non voting22:51
sdague - explains why22:51
sdaguethe failure rate was going way out of control22:51
mtreinishsdague: ooh nice spike22:51
sdagueit didn't hit 100%, that's an artifact of rolling averages22:51
sdaguebut it was above 50%22:52
mtreinishheh ok22:52
sdaguethere are a few possible issues in it, heat team is looking at them22:52
sdaguebut we need to not be bouncing things like the icehouse branch opennings22:52
mtreinishyeah it's unfortunate though, we just turned it on not too long ago22:53
sdaguehopefully the failure rate can be addressed and it can come back to voting some time next week22:53
sdagueyeh, but honestly every new major effort has fits and starts like this22:53
mtreinishyeah that's true22:53
sdaguewe flipped the neutron job non voting a couple times last year22:53
mtreinishwas the switch to parallel execution part of the increase in instability?22:53
sdaguethe heat jobs are starting to get enough content that they are flushing out some nice bugs as well22:53
sdaguethat bug we managed to fix22:54
mtreinishsdague: ok22:54
sdagueit was actually a keystoneclient bug22:54
sdagueon cert corruption22:54
sdaguethis looks more like there are some async behavior where not expected22:54
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sdagueand possibly the fedora guest is crashing22:54
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mtreinishis there a reason it's a fedora guest?22:55
mtreinishthat seems pretty heavyweight for the gate22:55
sdaguea number of the heat tests need real cloud-init or cfn-tools22:55
dkranzmtreinish: the heat slow tests need a "real" image22:55
sdagueneither of which are provided by cirros22:55
sdaguedkranz: well some of them do22:55
mtreinishhmm ok22:55
sdagueI think we could actually do some with just curl in cirrors22:55
dkranzsdague: right. I suppose those that don't could be moved to the regular run22:56
sdaguedkranz: they will still be slow :)22:56
dkranzAh, yes.22:56
sdaguehonestly, I think the heat dedicated job makes sense22:56
sdagueit provides plenty of time budget22:56
sdaguejust got to work through some issues here22:56
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sdagueI expect to be working with them through juno to help22:57
mtreinishsdague: ok is there anything else on heat?22:57
dkranzI have to go but I can finish run-as-non-admin in short order I think once goes in22:57
mtreinishdkranz: ok22:57
mtreinishok with <3 min let's do reviews22:57
mtreinish#topic Critical Reviews22:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"22:58
mtreinishdoes anyone have any reviews that they'd like to get eyes on?22:58
sdaguenot from me, just nap time after the release22:59
mtreinishheh ok22:59
mtreinishwell I guess if there aren't any reviews we can just end it here today22:59
mtreinishthanks everyone22:59
rockygThanks, guys!22:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"22:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Apr 17 22:59:47 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:59
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