Tuesday, 2014-05-06

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yamahataIs there bob melander and harren?05:01
s3wongyamahata: did they say they are going to join this meeting?05:01
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yamahatas3wong: I thought so.05:02
s3wongLet's wait for couple minutes then05:02
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yamahataHello again.05:07
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yamahataBob is there?05:07
bmelandeHello Isaku, Bob@ cisco here05:07
hareeshpcHi isaku05:07
yamahataGreat. Let's start the meeting05:07
yamahata#startmeeting neutron/servicevm05:07
openstackMeeting started Tue May  6 05:07:49 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.05:07
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.05:07
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)"05:07
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_servicevm'05:07
yamahata#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ServiceVM05:08
yamahataFor agenda05:08
yamahata#topic status update05:08
*** openstack changes topic to "status update (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)"05:08
yamahataIn the community, there is a consensus that servicevm should be an independent project moving out of Neutron05:09
yamahataA session will be held at the next summit.05:09
bmelandeLast day, last session :-)05:09
s3wongstill consider a Neutron design session05:10
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yamahataYea, the last session. So we don't have discussion time after the session.05:10
yamahataWondering unconference before neutron session. i.e. Monday or Tuesday05:10
hareeshpcyes..it is a good idea..05:10
s3wongneed to go there early to grab an unconference slot05:11
hareeshpcfriday evening is too late to get some discussion05:11
yamahataDoes monday works for you?05:11
yamahataI'm arriving there on Sunday.05:11
bmelandeworks for me too05:12
s3wongMonday is good, I only have a group-policy get-together from 2-3pm05:12
yamahataOkay. Then morning or evening?05:13
s3wongaround 5pm maybe, before dinner?05:13
bmelandeYes that could work05:14
yamahata#agreed unconference Monday 5pm-05:14
yamahataI'm not sure about the place. Maybe we can secure the unconference room. At worst developer loundge.05:15
s3wongwhatever goes to the unconference board earliest sign up for the Monday 5pm slot :-)05:15
yamahatanice idea.05:15
yamahata#action whoever geots to the unconference board and secure the room05:15
yamahata#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/servicevm05:16
yamahataIt's summit etherpad05:16
yamahata#action yamahata update the etherpad05:16
yamahataThe etherpad already include the schedule at the real session.05:17
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hareeshpcWe need to add more details into the etherpad. hows your plan and division of work to do that?05:17
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hareeshpcor what all should go there?05:18
yamahataI think, at the session we would discuss a plan for shortterm and longterm.05:19
bmelandeSorting out and getting agreement on that is important yes.05:19
yamahataI mean what Cisco want to include in Juno and introducing new independent project and its transition plan05:19
yamahatabmelande: agree. Do you have items?05:19
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yamahataAs for long term plan, tasks to do is terminology and api/datamodel design, determine review way with stackforge05:20
bmelandeBasically what is covered by the blueprints that we now have on review05:21
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yamahatabmelande: I think it's for Juno plan, right?05:22
bmelandeFor review process mayby adopt the neutron way from day 1, is that feasible=05:22
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yamahatabmelande: Yes, that's exactly what I'm proposing.05:22
yamahataFor spec review, we can follow xxx-specs way05:23
yamahatawith gerrit05:23
s3wongyes, so far, in Neutron, it proves to be much more efficient (gerrit for spec review)05:23
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bmelandeyamahata: Yes, exactly. As a gap filler and then we can transition to use flavor framework, any new modular l3 routing plugin and the framework of the new stackforge project05:23
s3wongservice context will also likely go away (well, it was never accepted anyway)05:25
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yamahatabmelande: those are the gaps.  the framework of the new stackforge would be the biggest issue.05:25
yamahatabmelande: your blueprint tries to introduce new REST API in Neutron. So people would ask the transition plan.05:26
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yamahataMaybe it will be discussed at the summit, we should prepare for the answer05:27
bmelandeyamahata: yes, it does right now.05:28
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yamahatait's too big topic, we can continue to discuss on mailing list or else05:29
bmelandeyamahata: it would be possible to replace that in a gap fill by config files05:29
yamahatabmelande: sounds great. It could be in blueprint05:29
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hareeshpcThe config agent and its associated components are still in neutron, right?05:31
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balajipanybody on servicevm discussion here05:32
yamahataFor short term, yes I think. In long term, it will be split into common library and device specific code in Neutron, I think.05:32
s3wongYes, yamahata, hareeshpc, bmelande, and s3wong05:32
s3wongthat was for balajip05:32
yamahatabalajip: yes.05:33
balajipok cool05:33
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yamahataWe agreed unconference on Monday 5pm-.05:33
yamahatabalajip: will you come to Atlanta?05:33
yamahata#topic session agenda05:34
*** openstack changes topic to "session agenda (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)"05:34
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yamahataWe are discussing agenda of the session05:34
balajipyamahata:no, we have freeze on travel right now.05:34
yamahatabalajip: that's pitty.05:34
balajipyamahata:so every body in the group agreed to make servicevm as another project?05:35
yamahatabalajip: From the discussion of openstack-dev, I understand it's the consensus.05:35
yamahataNo one opposed05:36
yamahataBack to the agenda.05:36
bmelandeBut there needs to be a smooth way to transition to that05:36
balajipyamahata:so is it like servicevm will be in incubation stage?05:36
yamahatabalajip: That's the plan. I'll create the repo on stackforge after the summit05:37
yamahataI added the section at the etherpad.05:37
balajipsorry to drag you from discussion agenda..05:38
bmelandeAre the folks engage in other services that have expressed interest? Or are they perhaps not aware of this?05:38
yamahatabmelande: hareeshpc  what else topic do you want to add?05:38
s3wongbmelande: I am part of the advanced service subgroup, and we are interested in the progress of serviceVM05:38
yamahatabmelande: So far only unified agent people expressed interest in the context of oslo.messaging05:39
bmelandes3wong: Yes, though I was more thinking of other openstack projects. Are they awware/interested?05:39
yamahataNothing else from Neutron project as long as I know.05:40
yamahata* other than05:40
s3wongbmelande: I vaguely remember someone from Nova has ask yamahata to put the serviceVM project to Nova on the ML05:40
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yamahatas3wong: I could have missed it. I'll check it later.05:41
bmelandes3wong: aha, ok.05:41
gduanHi, this is Gary, I'm mostly working on FWaaS05:42
yamahatagduan: hi05:42
gduanI am interested in serviceVM too05:42
gduanyamahata: hi05:43
bmelandegduan: Hi Gary bob melander@cisco here too.05:43
gduanHi, Bob05:44
balajips3wong:I remember Kyle proposed to make it as independent project based on the discussion like adding to the Nova etc.05:44
balajipgudan:Hi Gary balajip@freescale here05:44
bmelandeI'd say it belongs more in Neutron given current use cases05:44
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s3wongbalajip: yes, when I saw mestery 's email - I thought it was based on interests from other OpenStack projects outside of Neutron05:44
bmelandes3wong: but now it sounds like the extent of that interest is unclear05:45
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s3wongbmelande: right. I have not seen any follow-up from Nova on this05:46
s3wongbmelande: so I don't doubt the initial interests would likely be from Neutron community only05:47
balajips3wong:IMHO it would be better to have it as OpenStack Project as servicevm needs to have VM and Network information05:47
bmelandeIn general, I think it is important to keep a close tie to Neutron since that is where the use cases are which are best understood05:47
hareeshpcbmelande: thats my view too.05:47
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s3wongbmelande: as long as serviceVM module doesn't make Nova calls directly :-)05:48
balajipbmelande:it needs work closely with Nova and Neturon services.05:48
bmelandeYes, that is true. At the moment we don't use more than novaclient05:48
yamahatabmelande: right.05:49
bmelandeThough it would be nice to be able to influence the scheduling of VMs used for Neutron service. We do some experimental work on that.05:49
yamahatabmelande: Do you have any discussion against moving out of Neutron?05:49
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s3wongbmelande: that's policy based scheduling - there are at least several Nova projects on this05:50
yamahatabmelande: I think, the scheduling would be converged into Gantt project. It would take a while though.05:50
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bmelandeyamahata: in our implementation we have reasoned like this: there are several essentially independently running service plugins that want to implement devices/backends that are multi-service capabe05:51
bmelandeThere then needs to be some way of keeping track of those devices, in particular VMs, and their lifecycle.05:52
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yamahatabmelande: Agree with closely tieing servicevm/device manager with Neutron05:53
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bmelandeThen there is the "plugging" aspects which I think creates strong ties to neutron05:53
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s3wongyamahata: also serviceVM needs to conform to service insertion model to enable traffic steering and service chaining to operate on serviceVMs05:54
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bmelandeI have a easier time to see how things relate and can interwork when inside Neutron, implications when they are further "apart" is less clear to me at this point.05:55
gduanbmelande: is your concern that different plugins, for example, VPN, FW, have to sync calls to the device?05:55
yamahataI agree with those discussion.05:55
bmelandeThat is why I think we should have a short-term perspective and longer-one and transition in a good way (whatever that is).05:55
yamahataBut the issue is to convince other developers. Not here05:55
balajipbmelande:is it like the servicevm will be used for both devices/backends and as well virtual forms [network services in VM]05:55
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bmelandebalaji: what I mean is that service VM can host Neutron routers, Neutron FW, etc.05:56
yamahataOtherwise we wouldn't get review and it would be difficult to make progress05:56
bmelandeyamahata: Yes, I realize that too.05:56
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balajipbmelande:so we are proposing to move neutron routers, neutron fw etc to servicevm?05:57
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bmelandegduan: yes, all those plugins are rather independent.05:57
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yamahataIf we want to stay in Neutron in long term, we have to fight in openstack-dev openly.05:58
bmelandebalaji: No, servicevm is just one type of "host" for such service instances.05:58
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gduanbmelande: in our implementation, we sync FW calls and Router calls to one process05:59
hareeshpcI think bmelande is suggesting that we stay in neutron enough to catch all the finer details and requirements from neutron05:59
s3wongyamahata: did mestery give a concrete reason to move serviceVM out of Neutron?05:59
yamahatas3wong: The reasoning is that it's generic enough to serve project other than Neutron.06:00
gduanbmelande: this question is if this logic can be generalized and should it be in Neutron or serviceVM?06:00
yamahataAnd some backed it. I felt It's quite difficult to fight against it.06:00
balajipbmelande:i think if we want to increase the scope for servicevm project, some thing like overlapping with Neutron as well , then we need to have broader consensus on this06:00
yamahataAnyway we are running out of time. We could continue.06:01
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yamahataThe action item is06:02
bmelandewait, so I don't confuse things here. I'm not argueing a serviceVM project should handle/implement network service. That belongs in Neutron06:02
yamahatafix agenda for the session in etherpad. We'll continue off line. I'll send a mail.06:02
hareeshpcOne quick question. Does configuring a VM for a particular network service still part of Neutron or part of service VM?06:02
s3wongbmelande: certainly06:02
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balajipbmelande:thanks for clarification06:04
gduanhareeshpc: "configuring" means rest calls to the backend device?06:04
gduanIMO, it should be in Neutron06:04
hareeshpcthe driver component and also  an agent to fetch data from plugin06:04
s3wonghareeshpc: that's definitely Neutron06:05
s3wonghareeshpc: driver and agent are service specific, actually - even vendor specific06:06
hareeshpcs3wong: indeed06:06
gduanWhat I think about ServiceVM is to maintain VM's lifecycle based on service requests06:06
hareeshpcbut they are closely tied to the VM being configured, which seems out of Neutron06:06
s3wonghareeshpc: now, what I can see is if tenants are bringing in their own service, which isn't supported by Neutron06:06
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bmelandegduan: Yes, that is definitely a core task for serviceVM06:07
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gduans3wong: I think service insertion BP considers the external services, right?06:08
gduans3wong: by using service port, that's one of proposals?06:08
s3wonggduan: it does, that's when the VM needs to register to have a ServiceBase object to identify its connection points06:09
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yamahatas3wong: great. Pointer of it?06:10
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s3wongyamahata: you mean the document?06:11
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yamahatas3wong: service insertion BP06:11
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bmelandes3wong: I've looked at that service port doc. I was unsure how I would model a VM with a set of VIFs that carry VLAN tagged packets so that a service instance port maps to a logical interface for one of the VLANs06:11
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s3wongyamahata: SumitNaiksatam has the high level doc in gerrit reivew, the service insertion doc is here: #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AlEockwk0Ir267U9uFDc-Q6vYsWiAcAoKtCJM0Jc5UI/edit06:12
gduanbmelande s3wong: I don't think that's covered06:12
s3wongwill put it in gerrit prior to the summit06:12
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yamahataAnyway I close the meeting once. we could continue.06:13
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"06:13
openstackMeeting ended Tue May  6 06:13:04 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)06:13
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-05-06-05.07.html06:13
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-05-06-05.07.txt06:13
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-05-06-05.07.log.html06:13
s3wongbmelande: that is exactly one of the points we have discussed. We were actually thinking more on a hardware appliance06:13
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s3wongin that case, when there are several interfaces on the hardware appliance, how are we supposed to map a service port (tenant) to the different interfaces of the hardware appliance?06:14
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bmelandes3wong: could you perhaps cover that case by allowuing the external_port to be a neutron port too06:14
bmelandeThat is basically how we do it in our implemenation we have06:14
bmelandeAlong with information about segmentation, i.e., VLAN tag06:15
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s3wongbmelande: in that case, you may have to change a Neutron port property, i.e., no MAC and IP address assignments06:15
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s3wongservice port is supposed to be the wrapper to allow it to either be a neutron port, external port, or even just a connection point to a service06:16
s3wongIn any case, I shouldn't hijack the serviceVM meeting. We can perhaps discuss more f2f next Monday06:18
s3wongLooking forward to meeting you guys in Atlanta!06:18
gduans3wong: I think service port is a logic presentation06:18
yamahataLooking forward to meeting you.06:18
yamahatabmelande: Is it okay for more minutes?06:19
bmelandeyes, but Nova VM VIF needs a port to plugin into06:19
yamahataRegarding to terminology, I found you introduced new ones.06:19
s3wonggduan: it is. The intent is to have a more unified logical resources for insertion/steering/chaining purposes06:19
yamahataI created the wiki page, can you please have a look at it and add your terminologies?06:19
yamahataAnd some action items here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM06:20
s3wongbmelande: correct; in serviceVM, there needs to be a Neutron port to work. Do you foresee having a serviceVM created by admin but consumed by tenant, for example (one case where we need external port to connect to the VM)06:21
bmelandeyamahata: yes, we'll update.06:21
yamahatabmelande: hareeshpc Are you okay with agenda? Let's continue on openstack-dev06:22
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bmelandes3wong: we have the current use case: csr1kv and n1kv working together. N1kv plugin support vLAN trunks networks where different Neutrion networks can be visible using different VLAN tags06:22
bmelandeSo a VM can receviev VLAN tagged packets (one VLAN tag per Neutron Network that is trunked)06:23
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bmelandeThen to plug the VM using Nova, we need to create ports on the trunk networks.06:23
hareeshpc:yamahata: yes06:24
s3wongbmelande: in that case, do you view CSR1Kv and/or Nexus 1000v as a network service, or a network driver (something with a plugin)?06:24
bmelandeThen when a service instance, say a Neutron router, is plugged into a Neutron subnet, we need to create a logical VLAN sub-interface inside the VM, and add the Neutron subnet/network in question so that is gets trunked on the trunk network06:24
bmelandeThe service is still Neutron l3 routing service , Neutron FW service etc with service instances hosted insiude a CSR1kv.06:25
bmelandeThen this "plugging" strategy only works with n1kv plugin since no other plugin right now supports trunking.06:26
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bmelandeFor other plugins, we'd have to use e.g. VIF hot-plugging.06:26
s3wongbmlande: in that case, Nexus 1000v is the network driver/plugin. It needs to manage network connectivity with the VM, which probably means your VM needs to be running on a hypervisor with Nexus1000v running also, right?06:26
bmelandeIn our current implementation we have tried to capture the "plugging" strategy, which is dependent on the plugin capability in "plugging" drivers06:27
s3wongbmelande: I see, you want serviceVM to also implement some network driver function then?06:28
bmelandeYes, the n1kv plugin for Neutron is used06:28
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gduanbmelande: I think you can do this because n1kv is a l2 driver06:29
bmelandegduan: yes06:29
gduanbmelande: if I am VM that wants to work with ML206:29
bmelandegduan: with another pliugin like say, openvswitch plugin, we'd have to use something else like hotplug.06:29
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gduanI mean ovs driver in ml206:30
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bmelandegduan: same then since ml2 lacks this kind of trunking capability06:30
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bmelandegduan: we'd have to use hot-plug (to support dynamic add/remove router interface actions)06:31
gduanand it shouldn't be part of serviceVM either.06:31
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gduanI mean trunking capability06:31
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yamahataThere is a blueprint for vlan trunking/l2 gateway. But no activity so far.06:33
bmelandes3wong, gduan: No I don't want serviceVM to implmnent network driver function but it needs to know how to tell Neutron to "please add this network to this port (or rather add this network to the trunk network that the VM port uses"06:33
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gduans3wong: one thing I am not very clear is, there seems to be a binding process between service port and external port, how does it work?06:33
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bmelandeIt is analogous to how Nova has the vif-drivers.06:33
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s3wonggduan: via agent from a service telling us what external port belongs to this backend06:34
s3wongbmelande: having "trunk network" on a VM port sounds like a Neutron extension06:36
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gduans3wong: for example, I create a service port on a subnet, saying that this is the place that service should be plugged06:39
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gduans3wong: sorry, I'd better read the spec more before asking your questions.06:41
yamahataJust to make it clear, May 13 will be skipped. The next IRC meeting is on May 20.06:41
s3wonggduan: it's OK. Perhaps we can discuss further during advanced service meeting (Wed) or f2f next week if you are going to Atlanta06:42
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s3wongyamahata: yes, I don't think anyone expects any OpenStack IRC meetings next week :-)06:42
bmelandes3wong: yes, and trunking was discussed during last summit. But no broader progress ev e¨06:43
bmelandes3wong: even though there are some blueprints around with slightly different approached.06:43
s3wongbmelande: you should pursue further - that said, trunking doesn't seem like something that would belong to serviceVM06:44
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s3wongAnyway, guys, Thanks for the feedback. Kanzhe and I will further update the service insertion spec and can hopefully clarify the points and address your concerns06:46
s3wongSee you guys next week!06:46
gduans3wong: see you06:47
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bauzas#startmeeting gantt14:59
openstackMeeting started Tue May  6 14:59:50 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bauzas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:59
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)"14:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gantt'14:59
PaulMurrayhi bauzas15:00
bauzashi all15:00
toan-tranhi all15:00
bauzasn0ano is off today, so I'm chairing this one15:00
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toan-tranjust before we start, I would like to add into 'Open' a topic15:00
toan-tranon a new blueprint that we proposed15:00
bauzastoan-tran: sure, go ahead15:00
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bauzaswe can even create a dedicated topic for your needs ;)15:01
bauzascould I just have the title ?15:01
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toan-trancpu allocation per flavor15:01
toan-trancpu allocation ratio per flavor15:01
bauzasok, keep me aware if I'm forgetting it :)15:02
toan-tranwill do :)15:02
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bauzaslet's start15:02
bauzashello all15:02
* johnthetubaguy waves15:02
bauzas#topic Actions items from previous meetings15:02
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*** openstack changes topic to "Actions items from previous meetings (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:02
bauzas(argh, made a typo)15:03
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bauzas#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-04-29-15.00.html15:03
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bauzasa few actions were created15:03
bauzasYorikSar, you there ?15:03
YorikSarbauzas: o/15:03
bauzasYorikSar: cool15:04
bauzasan action was open for you15:04
bauzasto create the nova-specs bp15:04
bauzasI saw it15:04
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YorikSarI've put first version of the spec to the Gerrit.15:04
bauzascool, nice work15:04
bauzascould you please give us the link ?15:04
YorikSarI've added those who I could find in last meeting logs to reviewers15:04
bauzasYorikSar: nice catch15:04
YorikSar#link https://review.openstack.org/9212815:04
YorikSar(I hope that'll work for meeting bot)15:05
bauzasit will15:05
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bauzaslet's discuss it on a separate topic15:05
YorikSarI'm looking forward to reviews. I've never put together a blueprint with this new template in repo15:05
bauzasok, n0ano also had action to look over https://review.openstack.org/8277815:05
YorikSarbauzas: Sure15:05
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bauzasI guess he had no time15:06
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bauzasIMHO, prolonging this action doesn't make sense as we're 1 week close to the summit15:07
bauzasso, let's move to the next topic15:07
bauzasunless someone is feeling different :)15:07
toan-tranno, please proceed :)15:07
bauzas#topic Status on forklift efforts15:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Status on forklift efforts (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:07
bauzaswell, far less progress here, I was really busy by my vacations15:08
bauzasbut still, there 3 things you need to know15:08
bauzas#link https://review.openstack.org/82133 is merged15:08
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bauzasso I'll focus my attention on delivering first implementation by the next weeks15:09
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bauzasof course, progress will be impacted by Summit15:09
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toan-tranbauzas: super15:09
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bauzasimplementation of this blueprint can be found here as draft :15:09
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bauzas#link https://review.openstack.org/8277815:10
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toan-tranbauzas: just a question15:10
bauzasthis blueprint is targeted for Juno-115:10
toan-tranin the srt you said that only aggregate tables & vm tables are concerned15:10
toan-tranwhat about host_state?15:10
toan-trancomputes_* tables?15:10
bauzasI haven't said that in this blueprint ;,)15:11
bauzasthat's another blueprint, targeted for Juno-215:11
toan-tranoops, sorry, wrong blueprint :)15:11
bauzas#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89893/15:11
bauzasbut indeed, there is room for discussion here15:12
bauzasso, yes, HostState is a class, not a DB table15:12
toan-tranbauzas: the table is compute_*15:12
bauzasHostState is persisted by compute_nodes15:12
YorikSarAt least for now...15:13
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: I'm pretty well interested in your feedback for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89893/15:13
bauzasYorikSar: at least until no-db-scheduler is merged yes :)15:13
johnthetubaguybauzas: yeah, I will take a look, interested to get this reviewed before the summit15:13
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: I'm planning to discuss over it by the Gantt session15:13
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: because there are some performance concerns as reviews15:13
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: if you look at the discussion in the previous patchset15:14
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: so, I think that's a good fit for trying to get opinions before Summit15:14
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johnthetubaguybauzas: agreed, its a good topic to discuss, and there are a few performance things that worry me at least, but I feel there are some good options to fix those15:15
bauzasindeed, and that's good place for discussing it at Summit15:15
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bauzasok, any other questions about these 2 blueprints ?15:15
toan-transome filters use compute_nodes tables15:16
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toan-tranwhich is updated by nova periodic tasks15:16
toan-tranhow to separate them?15:16
bauzascompute_nodes is planned to stay where it is :)15:16
toan-tranbauzas: then how corefilter & ramfilter work then?15:16
bauzasthanks to the first bp (sched-lib), RT will update compute_nodes seamlessly15:17
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bauzascompute_nodes is planned to stay on the Gantt side of the whiteline15:17
bauzasso filters won't be impacted15:17
bauzasRT will be15:17
bauzashence the sched-lib blueprint15:18
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toan-trananother question: how this bp & no-db work together?15:18
bauzastoan-tran: that's an excellent question15:18
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johnthetubaguytoan-tran: I guess the nova-spec review for no-db should sort that out, it changes things slightly15:19
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bauzastoan-tran: and as for all excellent questions, it doesn't have an answer yet :)15:19
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toan-tranbauzas: can anything that this bp pull out be used in no-db?15:19
bauzastoan-tran: AIUI, nope15:19
toan-tranmeaning: instead of putting it in a separated db, put it in memcache?15:19
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bauzastoan-tran: ideally, access to DB should be proxified15:20
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bauzastoan-tran: so whatever the backend is, the calls would stay the same15:20
toan-tranbauzas: +115:20
johnthetubaguyso I think the no-db scheduler will be a new scheduler-lib, if we get it right15:20
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bauzasgood place for discussion over here then15:21
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toan-tranYorikSar: what do you think?15:21
bauzasI was just thinking that instead of calling db_api.whatever() we were calling nodb.whatever()15:21
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toan-tranbauzas: well, it's more complicated than that15:22
bauzaswell, I love complications :)15:22
toan-trandb_api has its own model15:22
toan-tranI don't know if memcache has similar thing15:22
YorikSarno-db scheduler only delivers host stats to the scheduler. I guess it can be a start for a scheduler-lib15:22
bauzashence the word 'proxy' :)15:23
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bauzasYorikSar: have you validated scheduler-lib interfaces ?15:23
YorikSarIn current state it "simply" replaces calls like db_api.put_my_state and db_api.get_all_states with requests to synchronizer.15:23
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YorikSarbauzas: Nope.15:24
bauzasbut calls to db_api.put_my_stats will now go to sched_lib.update_stats()15:24
YorikSarI guess I should take a closer look to all those blueprints.15:24
bauzasso I think you could take use of sched-lib as facade for your own implem15:25
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bauzasso that the interface would stay the same15:25
YorikSarbauzas: Then we'll replace whatever is inside sched_lib.update_stats with calls with call to synchronizer.15:25
YorikSarbauzas: Yes, exactly.15:25
bauzasthat's my idea yes15:25
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bauzaswell, at least it should be optional and flag-driven :D15:26
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bauzasas I said, a common facade for 2 implems15:26
YorikSarbauzas: We'll see ;)15:26
bauzasYorikSar: I suggest you to look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82133/19/specs/juno/scheduler-lib.rst15:27
bauzasyou'll find the specs for the interface15:27
YorikSarI think once people take a look at what those changes actually do they won't be afraid of switching on-the-fly.15:27
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bauzasmaybe it's worth moving from this topic to the no-db sched one ?15:27
bauzasso we could easily discuss on this15:27
bauzasunless someone wants to talk about sched forklift ?15:28
YorikSarbauzas: I'll take a look at blueprints tomorrow.15:28
bauzasand I also have to review yours15:28
bauzas#topic no-db scheduler15:29
*** openstack changes topic to "no-db scheduler (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:29
bauzas#action bauzas to review https://review.openstack.org/9212815:29
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bauzasYorikSar: do you have other things to raise over this topic ?15:30
bauzasI mean, about design or queries?15:30
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YorikSarbauzas: I guess, I'll be waiting for reviews on spec.15:30
YorikSarI've came onto one problem though. It's about compute_nodes you've mentioned.15:31
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bauzasYorikSar: sure ?15:31
bauzasYorikSar: what's your problem ?15:31
YorikSarI think they should go. :)15:31
YorikSarThey hold mostly info used for scheduling only.15:31
bauzasthen, I would have to say to leave them where it is :)15:32
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toan-tranbauzas: I remember Boris discussed it long ago15:32
YorikSarAnd when I took a look at what should be moved to one big JSON state, it seemed to me that all fields there have nothing (little) to do with the rest of Nova.15:32
toan-transaying that the Synchronizer will take care of that15:32
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bauzasmmm interesting view15:33
bauzasif you look at the Juno-2 bp for isolating DB scheduler15:33
bauzasI have a problem over here15:33
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bauzasI mean, we say that scheduler should not access other tables but the ones he manages for persistence15:34
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YorikSarThere are places where compute_nodes are requested along with stats just for couple fields stored in them. I'm not sure how to handle that.15:34
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bauzasbut the problem is that scheduler is directly reading other Nova objects states, like aggregates15:34
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* YorikSar adding another blueprint to the reading list...15:34
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bauzasso, if we say that compute_nodes should get rid off15:34
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bauzaswith a big JSON state15:35
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bauzasthat means that related objects should also be considered as this15:35
bauzasaggregates and instances at least15:35
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bauzaswell, to be honest, JSON and DB are 2 edges of the same thing15:36
YorikSarbauzas: I think we should separate data that relates to hosts from data that relates to instances.15:36
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bauzasexcept the persistence thing of course15:36
YorikSarSo aggregates are for hosts, so they should go to (dark) scheduler side.15:36
PaulMurrayYorikSar, is the instance state you are thinging of independent of host15:36
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bauzascould you please keep it in mind for your blueprint ?15:36
bauzasI'm also wondering how no-db sched will manage extensible RT15:37
bauzasas the bp is now validated, unless I'm wrong PaulMurray?15:38
PaulMurraybauzas, waiting for a second +215:38
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bauzasPaulMurray: ok cool15:38
YorikSarPaulMurray: I guess scheduler will have to manage a list of resources anyway. So at least list of instances on the host will remain in scheduler.15:38
PaulMurraybauzas, most code is done - just the spec to go :)15:38
bauzasPaulMurray: I saw that RT using objects is also validated as bp15:39
PaulMurraybauzas, yp15:39
bauzasPaulMurray: yep, I had no chance to review latest pachsets15:39
bauzas(about extensible RT I mean)15:39
PaulMurraybauzas, my biggest problem was I had a url longer than 79 characters15:40
bauzasso, YorikSar that means I think that the no-db sched bp should only focus on access to DB and proxy them15:40
bauzasPaulMurray: oh bad, have you had -1 for this ?15:41
PaulMurrayfrom jenkins15:41
bauzasPaulMurray: dammit15:41
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toan-tranPaulMurray: that's pretty much the problem with jenkins15:41
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PaulMurrayno worries - I made the world pep8 compliant so I could use a shorter url to refer to15:41
bauzasis there a PEP8 gate now for nova-specs ?15:41
bauzaswasn't aware of15:42
YorikSarbauzas: Yes. It's just proxying calls that used to target DB to wibbly-wobbly vortex that just delivering data to scheduler.15:42
PaulMurraybauzas, no, not really, just 79 character width limit15:42
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bauzasYorikSar: ok cool so that should be not impacting other bps15:42
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bauzasprovided the DB API remains the same :)15:42
YorikSarPaulMurray: I've pasted some long URLs to my spec and Jenkins never complained. Mb you should have only URL on the line to make it pass?..15:42
bauzasYorikSar: +115:43
bauzasYorikSar: I never went thru this problem15:43
PaulMurrayYorikSar, maybe - the check only failed today - it past last week15:43
bauzasok, could we consider to move to the Design sessions topic ?15:43
YorikSarMaybe they've changed coins in cointosser15:43
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YorikSarbauzas: Surt15:44
bauzas#topic Juno Summit design sessions15:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Juno Summit design sessions (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:44
bauzas#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Gantt-summit-sessions15:45
bauzashere is the final planning for scheduler-related sessions15:45
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bauzasI please ask proposers to fill in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno/Etherpads#Nova15:46
bauzasI began to put some ideas in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-nova-gantt-apis15:46
bauzasthat's draft of course15:46
toan-tranis there a link for all the session plan?15:47
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bauzastoan-tran: which kind of link do you need ?15:48
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toan-tranwell, a link that shows all the date & time of the sessions15:48
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toan-tranhttp://junodesignsummit.sched.org/ only shows presentation session, not degisn sessions15:48
bauzastake the sched.org things15:48
bauzastoan-tran: you made confusion ;)15:48
jgallardtoan-tran,  https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno15:49
bauzastoan-tran: http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/ is the Design sumit15:49
toan-tranbauzas: ok :D15:49
bauzashttp://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/ is for the regular Openstack Summit15:49
toan-tranbauzas: right :)15:50
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bauzasjust a quick reminder that you can see other people's attendance by looking over each person agenda15:50
bauzaslike mine http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/15:51
PaulMurraybauzas, also if you put a picture in it makes it a lot easier for people to find you (if you want to be found :)15:51
bauzasPaulMurray: +1 :)15:52
bauzasPaulMurray: even if the picture is 4 years old...15:52
PaulMurraybauzas, by "you" I mean "one" of course15:52
PaulMurraybauzas, all mine are 10 years old15:52
PaulMurrayI still look the same :)15:52
bauzasok, we still have 2 topics to discuss and 8 mins left15:52
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bauzassorry for rushing this15:52
bauzas#topic cpu allocation ratio per flavor15:53
*** openstack changes topic to "cpu allocation ratio per flavor (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:53
bauzastoan-tran: you're up15:53
toan-tranHere is the spec: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87213/15:53
toan-tran#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87213/15:53
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toan-trancurrently the cpu_allocation_ratio is put into the aggregate15:53
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toan-tranthus a host will accept the VMs within its ratio15:54
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toan-tranit is sometimes prefereable that the we want to put it in the flavor15:54
toan-tranfor instance:15:55
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toan-tranFlavor 1 has cpu_ratio 115:55
toan-tranFlavor 2 has cpu_ratio 215:55
toan-tranmeaning that the first flavor will not accept sharing its core with others15:56
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toan-tranwhile flavor 2 can share up to 1 more VM in the same core15:56
toan-transo if a host has 12 cores15:56
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toan-tranhe can accept 12 VMs of flavor 1, or 24 VMs of flavor 2, or 6 from flavor 1 + 12 from flavor 215:57
bauzasok, I see15:57
toan-tranthat's what we want to realize15:57
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bauzaswe're running out of time, I can propose you to discuss over this first in the bp15:57
PaulMurraytoan-tran, have you looked at extensible RT15:57
bauzasPaulMurray: +115:57
toan-tranPaulMurray: not yet,15:58
PaulMurraytoan-tran, could be useful15:58
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toan-tranit sounds like what we want in conjunction15:58
bauzasok, we're definitely eating time15:58
bauzasany other opens to place before Summit ?15:58
toan-tranactually there are several methods, including cgroup & quota:cpu15:58
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bauzasguys, we're running out of time15:59
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toan-tranwell, I guess I can put back the bp  for another time then :)16:00
bauzasI can propose to discuss over other topics outside here16:00
bauzascool thanks16:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue May  6 16:00:16 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-05-06-14.59.html16:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-05-06-14.59.txt16:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-05-06-14.59.log.html16:00
bauzasbye all16:00
YorikSarbauzas: Cool presision with #endmeeting time ;)16:00
primeministerpHi all16:00
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primeministerpalexpilotti: you free?16:01
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primeministerp#startmeeting Hyper-V16:01
openstackMeeting started Tue May  6 16:01:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Hyper-V)"16:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v'16:01
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primeministerpI'll wait a couple minutes16:02
primeministerphowever I think most will be unable to attend.16:03
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primeministerpwe'll look forward to meeting/seeing everyone at the summit next week.16:03
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primeministerpI'll wait a couple more minutes16:04
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primeministerpso looks like we'll call it until the summit.16:14
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:14
openstackMeeting ended Tue May  6 16:14:45 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:14
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-05-06-16.01.html16:14
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-05-06-16.01.txt16:14
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-05-06-16.01.log.html16:14
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dolphmayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, ericn: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting17:57
bknudsondolphm: hi17:57
lbragstaddolphm: hey17:57
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ayoungheh    //0-0\\17:58
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topolo/  I just want to say I won $550 playing poker in Vegas and thus can satisfy my obligation for buying drinks for  first night (Monday correct)17:58
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morganfainbergtopol, oh so we're getting expensive drinks then? :P17:59
dolphmmorganfainberg: ++17:59
topolfor you sure17:59
lbragstadshirley temples around!17:59
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dolphmtopol: 550 should cover 2 or 3 of us i suppose17:59
mfischthere's so many parties and happy hours I'm not sure how you plan on actually buying a drink17:59
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topoloh lord. I forgot who I am talking too17:59
dolphm#startmeeting keystone18:00
openstackMeeting started Tue May  6 18:00:07 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:00
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dolphm#topic Reminder: there are two summit schedules18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: there are two summit schedules (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:00
stevemartopol, nicely done!18:00
dolphmas in HK, there are two sched.org schedules: one for the design summit and one for the main conference18:00
dolphm#link http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/ design summit18:00
dolphm#link http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/ main conference18:00
bknudsonthere's some security presentations on monday18:01
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ayoungdolphm, Do we have any coders from sched.org attending?  We need to get them to do the whole Hierarchical Multitenacy for Events18:01
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dolphmi recommend registering for sessions/events on each and then sync them both to your phone so you A) get updates B) can see conflicts18:01
morganfainbergayoung, lol18:01
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ayoungdolphm, when do you give the state of the Keystone Address?18:02
dolphmayoung: we don't do that anymore -- it's a web conference post-summit now18:02
ayoungLets sit in there and Heckle, then18:02
topolI would like a transcript of the state of keystone address18:02
dolphmayoung: unfortunately the icehouse one wasn't recorded (as i think i went first + technical difficulties)18:02
mfischwhere is the invite for the webconf announced?18:03
morganfainbergtopol, we also need to have the immediate rebuttle to the state of keystone address >.>18:03
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morganfainbergtopol, i mean...18:03
bknudsonsome of the summit meetings say FULL already18:03
dolphmmfisch: good question... i recall it being on twitter.com/openstack, but i'm sure there was something more formal (operator list?)18:03
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topolyeah, how can they be FULL?18:03
mfischdolphm: ops list works for me18:03
ayoungI'm just going to go the that one and sit on the stage18:03
dstanekbknudson: ha, i didn't realize there was a capacity limit18:03
morganfainbergbknudson, wow full?18:04
mfischa lot of the workshops have capacity limits18:04
lbragstadbknudson: which one were you looking at?18:04
morganfainbergdstanek, if past summits were any indicator... rooms will be overfull for some talks18:04
dolphmfor everyone here, the state of the union shouldn't be surprising, it'll be a summary of icehouse + what we talked about during the juno conference18:04
stevemarlbragstad, there's a bunch18:04
dolphmmfisch: ++18:04
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stevemarsome even say 'filling'18:05
dstanekif they are marked as full can you not add them to you schedule?18:05
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bknudsonsign up and scalp tickets18:05
mfischI panic signed up for some last week, but I'm overbooked18:05
morganfainbergbknudson, ++18:05
stevemarbknudson, ++18:05
mfischwill sell tickets for +2s18:05
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morganfainbergmfisch, oh thats downright dirty (i approve)18:05
dolphmdesign summit sessions shouldn't have any capacity, beyond actually filing the room18:05
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dolphmso, first come, first heard18:05
stevemarmfisch, you'd have better luck with beer18:05
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topolyeah, mfisch after you one gives you the +2 another one behind the scenes gives you a -218:06
bknudson"Take a Break with Red Hat" - FILLING18:06
bknudsonI could handle that one18:06
mfischthats where redhat gives you snacks in exchange for a resume I bet18:06
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ayoungIts ok,  this whole OpenStack thing is a flash in the pan.  All the cool kids are moving to CoreOS18:06
dolphmsounds like a commercial break ;)18:07
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ayoungmfisch, Heh.  Maybe for you18:07
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ayoungRed Hat doesn't feed me.  Least, not that way18:07
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dolphmayoung: they already have your resume18:07
dolphm#topic Design summit scheduling conflicts?18:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Design summit scheduling conflicts? (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:08
dolphmjust a reminder to poke me with any potential conflicts you find, today is basically the last day to resolve tehm18:08
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ayoungdolphm, I have yet to get someone hired here in Engineering.  Ops and Services, yes....the easy way of getting into RH Engineering is to build a Successful OpenSource Project and We'll  Acquire your company.18:09
dolphmthe only one i'm aware of, and will attempt to resolve, is that the federation design session conflicts with a federation-related topic from the main conference: http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/ab0966f5ec41f78e929effd499e0286f conflicts with http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/event/11b6f75c349b0bffe204e3cb2880d4c018:09
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dolphmthat'll likely result in the federation design session moving to a later timeslot, although there aren't many options to do so18:10
stevemarah that mystery one18:10
morganfainbergah that would be good to resolve if possible18:10
marekdmorganfainberg: ++18:10
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dolphmi'd rather not swap it with another keystone session (so that we can attend the main conference session)18:10
dolphmbut that's my backup plan18:11
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morganfainbergdolphm, ++18:11
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dolphmanyway, if anyone finds anything else, speak up- thanks!18:11
dolphm#topic Design summit etherpads18:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Design summit etherpads (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:11
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dolphm#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno/Etherpads#Keystone18:11
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dolphmI started preseeding the etherpads a bit, and linking them on sched.org18:12
dolphmthe only thing i'd *really* like to have before we get to atlanta, is one or two specific desired outcomes for each session so that we can stay on track while we're there :)18:13
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dolphma couple sessions are completely missing them, as the session descriptions were ... vague ... so i'd appreciate everyone's input here on what we'd like to accomplish in those topics18:13
stevemara rough outline, and desired outcomes are great things to put in the etherpads18:13
dolphm#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-keystone-client18:13
dolphm#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-keystone-authorization18:13
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bknudsonkeystoneclient and authorization are pretty broad topics to begin with18:14
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stevemarwhich is why the folks who propsed the session should help narrow it down :P18:14
jamielennoxwe have a seperate authorization track to just normal client?18:14
dolphmbknudson: stevemar: ++18:15
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dolphmjamielennox: authorization steps into token authz attributes, policy.json and oslo.policy land18:15
jamielennoxoh right, server side18:16
jamielennoxclient is vague because while i've got a few things i'm hoping others to have topics as well18:17
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dolphmjamielennox: the "topics" you mentioned in the session description don't have clear justification or desired outcomes, though18:18
bknudsonI guess with the client I'm a little more interested in if the other projects are going to use it18:18
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bknudsonrather than re-implementing everything18:18
dolphmjamielennox: "Splitting middleware out from the client repo" - what's the challenge we need to overcome at the summit?18:18
dolphmjamielennox: "Ideas for fixing auth_token middleware" what's wrong with it, exactly, that we need to solve?18:18
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dolphmi'd like to have a desired outcome(s) for these, *and* revise the session description to be much more specific for both of these18:19
jamielennoxdolphm: yep, i definetly think we need to revise the description18:19
topoldolphm, do we anywhere cover having a strategy to getting one of the integrated projects to adopt V3 APIs18:19
bknudsonheat is using v3 apis18:20
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bknudsone.g., trusts18:20
dolphmtopol: i have a bp filed specifically to document our approach to that -- i intend on focusing on it this week actually :)18:20
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topolbknudson, I was thinking more nova, cinder, glance18:20
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topoldolphm, sounds good18:20
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dolphmtopol: the bottom line is that the work is on us to make it happen, but we need a roadmap defined for ourselves, and for our stakeholders to monitor18:21
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bknudsonnova's got an issue where they accept a token and then start using it with neutron... but the token might have expired between when they accepted it and when they hand it off to neutron18:21
topoldolphm, +++++18:21
jamielennoxtopol: i consider that part of client's responsibility, whilst ever people have to do there own integration with different API versions it won't happen18:22
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topolwe need to save cycles for making that happen18:22
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bknudsonwe should also have a target -- j2?18:22
topoljamielennox, so its on us to make happen. Otherwise V3 APIs arent relevant. and not being relevant is a bad place to be18:23
jamielennoxhaving said that a large amount of what is actually required in terms of features are either implemented or in review, so there is work to be done but i don't know what is left in terms of discussion18:23
jamielennoxtopol: absolutely - we are going to need to make the changes18:23
dolphmbknudson: my personal goal is for the end of juno, but i like the ambition :)18:23
dolphmwe could also replace one of these sessions with a v3 roadmap session18:24
topoldolphm, ideally we could pair up a core from keystone with a core from the other projects to have a two in the box approach to insuring folks upgrade to V318:24
dolphmtopol: i like that idea18:24
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dstanektopol: pairing is a good idea18:25
morganfainbergtopol, ++18:26
dolphms/Authorization/What it will take to kill Identity API v2/ ?18:26
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morganfainbergv2 auth isn't hard, it's the rest of v2... that's a pain18:27
henrynashdolphm: maybe s/User IDs/Entity IDs/ ….since we are taling about user and group IDs18:28
ayoungdolphm, first and foremost it will take:  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90632/18:28
jamielennoxdolphm: again, generally a client issue so happy to take it, I just need to rewrite that description18:28
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ayoungwe need to make it possible for people to use V3 APIs while stuck with V2.0 clients18:29
ayoungother clients, that is18:29
dolphmjamielennox: make that a desired outcome of the client session, you mean?18:29
henrynashdolphm: or maybe just User/Group IDs18:29
dolphmhenrynash: "entity" is a bit vague, but happy to expand to user & group18:30
dolphmhenrynash: i wasn't thinking group id's because i had identity federation in mind18:30
henrynashdolphm: ++18:30
ayoungIn federation, we need to let the groups be defined completely in the mapping layer, with nothing in identity18:30
jamielennoxdolphm: again, my issue here is that i would love the feedback but as far as i'm concerned most of the pieces for the transition are in place or in review18:31
stevemarayoung, you mean no existing groups in identity backend?18:31
marekdayoung: something like 'ephemeral' groups?18:31
ayoungstevemar, yes, that is what I mean18:31
morganfainbergayoung, i agree18:31
morganfainbergmarekd, ++18:31
stevemarayoung, you want the groups created on the fly?18:31
ayoungmarekd yeah,  let the IdP manage the set of groups18:31
marekdstevemar: yes18:31
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morganfainbergstevemar, group shouldn't need to be "Stored" in identity imo18:31
ayoungstevemar, I don't want to have to define them in two places.  So if I have them in the IdP, I want to be able to use them from the IdP18:32
marekdstevemar: ayoung: or rather fake groups that are just a bridge to the roles...18:32
ayoungNothing Fake18:32
ayoungThey are real, they just don't live in Keystone18:32
stevemarmorganfainberg, ayoung, i'm not understanding how authz could happen then?18:32
dolphmjamielennox: we have a substantial amount of cross-project work to follow - i'd like to enumerate that too. plus, what we expect from deployers to make a transition18:32
ayoungstevemar, role is still assigned based on Group Id18:32
stevemara role has to have a user|group and project|domain18:32
morganfainbergstevemar, the same way as now, you just wouldn't have a group in identity backend.18:32
ayoungyou just don;'t confuirm that the group is in the identity backend a-priori18:32
ayoungthat is why there is no FK constrain there.18:33
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jamielennoxdolphm: ok, i couldn't see any way to edit that summary, do i just have to send it to you?18:33
dolphmjamielennox: oh sure - i have no idea what the options look like on your side at this point :(18:33
dolphmjamielennox: i think it's all the same to me up until the conference, except after today it's18:34
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dolphm"pencils down"18:34
stevemarmorganfainberg, ayoung i suppose18:34
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morganfainbergstevemar, it's the same as a federated user, the ID doesn't get "stored" in the identity backend.18:34
henrynashayoung: we will still need to support groups in identity right…e.g. I’m ust using LDAP….just not for federation…unless, as we have discussed before, we make LDAP a subset of federation18:34
jamielennoxdolphm: alright, i'll fix something up soon and email/put it on etherpad and link it to you18:34
dolphmjamielennox: danke18:34
ayounghenrynash, done by the web server18:34
morganfainberghenrynash, correct, though i'd like to see LDAP as a subset of federation18:34
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morganfainbergayoung, right there are other ways, but if we maintain a raw ldap connection, we woiuld still need groups in identity.18:35
morganfainbergayoung, similar to SQL backend.18:35
ayoungmorganfainberg, I said explicitly for Federation18:35
morganfainbergayoung, yeah.18:36
ayoungLDAP Id Backend doesn't go away.18:36
henrynashayoung: assuming everyone is happy to use apache plugins for this…(no, don’t start that argument now)…’cause  I think that’s too strict an implementation requiremnet18:36
dolphmhenrynash: (what's too strict, exactly?)18:36
ayounghenrynash, "make it possible to"  not require18:36
morganfainbergayoung, ++18:36
bknudsonI don't think deployers really want an LDAP ID backend if they have federation18:36
morganfainberghenrynash, more options = better. this is an alternative deployment.18:36
bknudsonthey want to store their service users in sql18:36
ayounghenrynash, I don't want to have to explicitly enumerate all of the groups if the Apache module populates them for me18:36
ayoungbknudson, ++18:37
marekdayoung: ++18:37
morganfainbergbknudson, somewhat, some of my users do want LDAP direct, but that is more of an edgecase than the norm18:37
morganfainbergbknudson, i agree most cases federation supplants the need for LDAP18:37
henrynashdolphm: that we make apache plugins the only way we can get certain key keystone fucntionality (e.g. groups for LDAP)18:37
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ayounghttp://adam.younglogic.com/2014/05/mod_lookup_identity/  can use the ldap pam Module18:37
dolphmbknudson: i agree in the long run, and would appreciate being corrected if anyone has an opposing use case :)18:38
bknudsonthey don't have to be apache plugins, could also handle via keystone middleware18:38
dolphmmorganfainberg: (why?)18:38
morganfainbergbknudson, ++18:38
morganfainbergdolphm, because they are picky about how things interact with LDAP18:38
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morganfainbergdolphm, it's a silly edge case requirement18:38
ayoungbknudson, for an example of that:  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92137/18:38
dolphmmorganfainberg: so they don't want users authenticating with ldap or what?18:38
bknudsonif somebody was picky about interaction with LDAP they'd be surprised by how keystone works.18:38
dolphmbknudson: plus plus18:39
morganfainbergdolphm, i'll need to get more info on it and we're using some very odd hybrid backends18:39
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ayoungbknudson, we could take LDAP an make it into a middleware piece like the Basic_Auth one I just posted, and populate REMOTE_GROUPS  from there.18:39
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stevemarhenrynash, i get your concern, i had planned to talk about the dependency at the summit18:40
morganfainbergayoung, middleware would be good if we wanted to support non-apache wsgi implementations18:40
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ayoungmorganfainberg, ++18:40
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topolstevemar, how hard is it to get rid of that dependency?18:40
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ayoungI think that is the way to go, and then we can add or remove them from the pipeline, but Identity is an optional component.  We need a way to deal with domains  in the Basic_Auth case (that really is just an example one)18:41
stevemartopol, not sure, we agreed on the dependency to get something up and running quickly18:41
topolstevemar, makes sense18:41
stevemartopol, it'll be different for the different federation protocols too18:41
morganfainbergayoung, exactly18:41
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henrynashayoung: the thing is I see many customer who just want coroprate LDAP user/groups mapping…and then use keystone to add roles to those users and groups… I don;t see how we get that with a pipeline plug in18:42
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ayounghenrynash, that is exactly what you get18:42
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morganfainberghenrynash, if it provided the remote_user/group mechanism the apache module would have otherwise done, you get the same net effect, right?18:43
bknudsonwe'd have REMOTE_USER and REMOTE_GROUPS?18:43
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ayounghenrynash, instead of doing a lookup against the backend, it used LDAP to populate REMOTE_USER and REMOTE_GROUPS.  Then  The Mapping backend (as per SAML plugin)  will convert those to the USER_ID and Groups for Keystone consumption18:44
ayoungbknudson, yes18:44
bknudsonand roles map group names to roles instead of IDs?18:44
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ayounggroups only have ids18:44
henrynashhow do I have an keystone API that says “pick the group that I add a role to for a project”?18:44
ayounghenrynash, you don't18:44
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henrynashi knew you would say that18:44
ayounghenrynash, you can query them from LDAP18:44
marekdayoung: and how would you like to link groups from REMOTE_GROUPS with a set of roles?18:44
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marekdin the mapping rules?18:45
ayoungmapping just converst REMOPTEE_GROUPS to Keystone groups.  The rest of the mechanism is the same, except you do not "confirm the group exists"18:45
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henrynashayoung: ok, agreed….in that model we say there is no idenitty api as we know it today, you go to the “source”18:45
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marekdah, so some local groups would have to exist apriori...18:45
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bknudsonwe'll have to change the project name from openstack identity to openstack assignment.18:46
ayoungbknudson, ++18:46
dolphmayoung: how do you assign project/domain-based authorization to groups that don't exist?18:46
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ayoungdolphm, there are a couple ways we could address that.  Probably the most logical is that an assignement to a group requires that the user doing it has the group in their Assertion (SAML, LDAP whatever)18:47
ayoungdolphm, is that really such a problem, though, if the groups are not enumeratable in Keystone?18:48
ayoungthe mappings are going to be set up by external users.  They know about their attributes18:48
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ayoungIf they say "pass through the list of groups that the user has" so long as it is limited to a domain, let it pass.18:49
dolphmayoung: i don't care if their enumerable or not - if the user comes into keystone with groups that keystone has never seen before, they won't be authorized to do anything in the cloud, right?18:49
morganfainbergayoung, i think there might be some usability issues in that.18:49
ayoungdolphm, correct.18:49
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dolphmayoung: but you want the user to have authorization to grant themselves authorization?18:49
ayoungdolphm, you would need to set up a role assignment before the group means anything18:49
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ayoungdolphm, no,  I was saying "if you need enumeration"18:50
ayoungthat was just one possible solution,. not the berst18:50
dolphmayoung: so the deployer needs to know about the groups they care about before the user authenticates?18:50
jamielennoxmorganfainberg, ayoung: maybe not usability, but i'm trying to imagine the headache of getting keystone setup with all these mappings18:50
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ayoungNot "must"  just "may"18:50
morganfainbergjamielennox, ooh we probably need to work w/ horizon folks to make a "friendly" way of defining mapping.s18:51
dolphmayoung: so you want to basically ignore "groups" that don't exist?18:51
bknudsonjamielennox: would be interesting to see an example mapping setup18:51
ayoungIf I have an LDAP server with 1000s of groups already defined, I don't want to have to copy each and everyone in to the Keystone Backend (assuming it will not be using direct LDAP, But Rather Federation)18:51
ayoungdolphm, yes I want the option to ignore groups with no role assignments18:52
ayoungmorganfainberg, and of testing them....18:52
dolphmayoung: that seems like a trivial change relative to how federation is implemented today; why fuss with a radically different implementation to achieve that?18:52
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ayoungdolphm, I'm not suggesting a radical change.  Just that it is something we need to resolve and support.18:53
marekddolphm: ++18:53
ayoungAn option on the domain:  don't enumerate groups.18:53
dolphmif CONF.federation.ignore_unrecognized_groups: discard_group(); else: raise Exception()18:53
ayoungOr "don't confuirm group existinence when creating a role mapping"18:53
ayoungdolphm, could be CONF, but probably makes more sense as an option on the domain18:53
ayoungOr on the mapping18:54
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dolphm(3 minutes)18:54
ayoungI could see a need for the current functionality for say, public cloud, and then Non-enumeration for a public cloud setup.18:54
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ayounger, privateCLoud setup18:54
bknudsonbefore we're done I wanted to mention that it's pretty easy to try out the compressed token change --18:54
dolphmayoung: i'm lost on whether you're talking about ignoring groups during role assignment or after processing a federation mapping18:55
ayoungbknudson, ++18:55
bknudsonjust checkout the 2 commits and devstack18:55
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ayoungdolphm, both.18:55
ayoungbknudson, and it worked OK?18:55
bknudsonayoung: yes, it worked fine18:55
bknudsonand the tokens were obviously starting with PKIZ18:55
ayoungOne commit for Keystone, one commit for client, and devstack.18:55
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ayounghttps://review.openstack.org/71181   https://review.openstack.org/9114518:56
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ayoungbknudson, BTW, that mechanism is what I am proposing as the basis for PKI usage in Oslo Messaging18:56
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dolphmayoung: there's a patch for devstack?18:56
ayoungdolphm, No.18:56
bknudsonit works with plain devstack18:56
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ayoungdolphm, I think he meant it worked with Devstack if you tell it "don't reclone"18:57
dolphmayoung: gotcha18:57
morganfainbergayoung, i think devstack doesn't reclone by default18:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue May  6 18:57:45 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-05-06-18.00.html18:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-05-06-18.00.txt18:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-05-06-18.00.log.html18:57
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henrynashsomeone’s clock is fast!18:58
morganfainberghenrynash, he said "ish"18:58
henrynashtrue, true....18:58
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fungiinfra team assemble!19:00
mordredfungi: I'm here - but need to step afk for like 5 minutes19:00
fungiSergeyLukjanov? pleia2? zaro?19:00
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fungi#startmeeting infra19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue May  6 19:01:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:01
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:01
fungithis should be fairly short, i think19:01
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fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
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fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
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fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-04-29-18.59.html19:02
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fungi#topic manage-projects status (mordred)19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "manage-projects status (mordred) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
fungiit seems to be working, yes?19:03
fungii've personally merged a couple of things which it grabbed and ran with successfully19:03
mattoliverauis mordred back from his 5 min task?19:03
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* SergeyLukjanov here19:03
clarkbyup the i8ln project was created19:03
clarkbseemed happy19:04
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fungi#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/oslo.i18n/19:04
fungithat one?19:04
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clarkbI do know there are issues creating projects without a seed repo19:05
fungiahh, yeah 78 minutes ago and has all its history, so lgtm19:05
clarkbmordred has a change up to fix that but it is not tested19:05
fungigood to keep in mind19:06
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fungi"it works" is probably sufficient status, but we can revisit when mordred returns if there's anything more we need to dig into here19:07
clarkbor was it projects that needed a seed ACL19:07
clarkbfungi: ++19:07
fungias much as i'm sure we'll all miss the drama of "new project fridays"19:07
fungi#topic Summit next week (clarkb)19:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit next week (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:07
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fungijeblair has asked that we work out any reshuffling which needs to happen to resolve schedule conflicts asap so he can go over them in the upcoming project meeting19:08
mordredblast. it was 8 minutes19:08
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clarkbfriendly reminder that the summit happens next week. we don't do meetings during that week and anyone that has a session under the infra track should add a link to an etherpad for that session at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno/Etherpads#Infrastructure19:08
mordredclarkb: ++19:08
fungidid anyone have any requests to reschedule or rehome a session?19:09
clarkbfungi: I basically gave up when I had like 5 triple bookings19:09
fungii suspect we'll just do like we always have and work out on the spot who's going to split to attend what19:09
* clarkb looks at them really quickly19:09
SergeyLukjanovit looks ok for me19:09
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mordredmy schedule looked stupid as usual19:10
mordredso I didn't think of thinking of suggesting moves19:11
clarkbya basically it is never going to be perfect19:11
clarkbso I was ok with dealing with it19:11
fungiworks for me too19:11
clarkbthough this might be a good time to suggest paper shcedules again19:11
clarkbbecause sched.org hated us in hong kong19:12
mordredclarkb: on-demand paper schedules that print out based on my username would be fantastic19:12
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mordredor monitors that respond to the nfc chip in my phone to show me my personal schedule19:13
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* mordred shuts up19:13
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* gothicmindfood thinks RFID chips for all to geo-locate each other on an openstack-infra app sounds good19:14
anteayai like paper schedules19:14
fungiokay, as i see no objections raised to the current infra and infra-related sessions scheduled, and have none myself, i think this makes things easier for jeblair ;)19:15
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fungianybody else have summit/conference-related things to cover?19:15
clarkbmonday is freeish19:15
mordredwe should all drink some time19:15
anteayaI was going to spend some time in the ops track on monday19:16
clarkbaccording to gertty zuul has 25 outstanding changes19:16
anteayathe thing tom is organizing19:16
clarkbI think it would be excellent to do some zuul hacking at some point19:16
clarkbanteaya: yup me too19:16
anteayayes a group zuul hack19:16
fungiyes, having people attend relevant ops sessions would be good19:16
anteayaI would like that19:16
clarkbbut we can do the zuul thing informally19:16
clarkbwhen there is time (if there is time)19:16
clarkbmaybe over dinner and beer one evening19:16
anteayasounds good19:17
clarkb(lol like jeblair will be free for dinner)19:17
* mordred is considering not bringing his laptop just like hong kong19:17
anteayayou only use your phone anyway at these things19:17
zaroyes, would like to be on better terms with zuul as well19:17
clarkbif that falls through maybe we should consider a mid cycle zuul specific meetup19:17
anteayahey a mid cycle might be nice19:18
clarkbsince a generic infra one was deemed less useful last cycle19:18
clarkb(I am just throwing ideas out there, not particularly sold on any one in particular)19:18
mordredclarkb: by mid-cycle - you clearly mean "everyone goes to the beach at fungi's house"19:18
fungiworks for me19:18
clarkbmordred: or hawaii19:18
clarkbmordred: hawaii was really nice19:18
fungijust be prepared for it to be really crowded there that time of year19:19
fungioh, i would totally go in for hawaii ;)19:19
anteayaI'm up for the beach19:19
mattoliveraujhesketh is talking about turbo-hipster, on i think monday, tho cant remember at this time of morning. He might go into my nodepool-ify of TH as well. didnt see that on any list.19:19
krotscheckI want to grab a bunch of you and show you mockups and ask you questions.19:19
zaro  fungi ++19:19
anteayaso yeah, fungi's house in july19:19
clarkbfungi: also hawaii is easy for the australians apparently19:20
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clarkbso its win win :)19:20
anteayaand I'll put zuul in the reason for on the expense report19:20
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anteayawho is there to organize something in hawaii19:20
anteayawe can't just show up19:20
fungimattoliverau: do you recall whether it was a conference session or an ops summit session?19:20
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mattoliverauyeah its a little closer :)19:20
clarkbthe future of jenkins session is tuesday iirc19:21
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mattoliveraugiid question, my mind doesn't work to well at 5am :P I'll find it19:21
clarkbnope wednesday19:21
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mordredthe future of jenkins is unicorns19:21
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fungioh, the design summit session on future of jenkins. got it19:21
clarkbI think that is jheskeths session19:22
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fungii definitely planned on hitting that one19:22
clarkbany other summit things?19:23
fungiseems like no19:23
clarkbyou know I should've proposed a future of tox session19:23
clarkboh well19:23
mordredclarkb: we can always talk about that over beer19:23
anteayathat will be over beer  Ithink19:23
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fungi#action clarkb fix tox over beer19:24
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fungi#topic Open discussion19:24
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fungi(which this more or less has been anyway)19:24
ianwhi, just wanted to check on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91728/19:24
jesusaurusi would like to talk about my refactoring of the jenkins module19:24
fungimordred: you didn't have any additional input on manage-projects besides what we covered already, right?19:24
krotscheckSo, who’s actually been using storyboard, and what kind of feedback do you have?19:25
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mattoliverauMonday at 2pm: http://is.gd/M6V2yW19:25
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mattoliveraujhesketh ^^19:25
clarkbjesusaurus: oh ya, that is on my list of things to review this week hopefully. But what little I saw of it is good19:25
clarkbjesusaurus: I think the new terminology is much more clear19:25
clarkbmattoliverau: oh at the conference proper19:25
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jesusaurusive chatted with people in -infra on a couple occassions about it, but i still don't have any reviews19:26
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mordredfungi: nope. it should be working19:26
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mordredkrotscheck: I have been using it lightly - but thusfar don't have specific feedback - I haven't used it in anger yet19:27
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mordredkrotscheck: I blame my life as a PHB19:27
clarkbjesusaurus: your change has been starred, bug me about it if I don't get around to it tomorrow19:27
zarokrotscheck: what projects are in storyboard so far?19:27
jesusaurusmordred: phb?19:27
krotscheckzaro: Storyboard, storyboard webclient, zuul, gertty, nodepool19:27
fungijesusaurus: dilbert reference. pointy-haired boss19:27
mordredjesusaurus: "pointy haired boss"19:27
clarkbjesusaurus: players handbook or pointy haired boss depending on the type of nerd you are19:28
jesusaurusclarkb++ thats where my mind was19:28
mordredclarkb: I probably would not have been saying "I blame my life as a player's handbook"19:28
zarojesusaurus: that's a wopper!19:28
zarokrotscheck: are you open to adding others?19:28
* mordred should have been saying that19:28
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krotscheckzaro: Absolutely, especially since you sit close enough to throw things at me when it’s annoying.19:29
zarojesusaurus: like the idea. will take a look19:29
anteayayour hair is not pointy enough yet, I hope you are working on that19:29
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clarkbanything else?19:31
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jesusaurusid also like to talk a bit about the larger picture of where i want to go with refactoring jenkins19:31
clarkbjesusaurus: go for it19:32
fungiianw: commented on 91728, i more or less agree with derekh_ but otherwise the change lgtm19:32
jesusaurusi would like to see some of the modules broken out into their own repos to make them more easily used by others19:32
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clarkb++, but first step in that is figuring out r10k and/or publishing to puppet forge automagically19:33
clarkbwhich I hthink has been the biggest holdup for us. We can consume the monolithic lib easily19:33
clarkbhard to consume when broken into pieces19:33
fungijesusaurus: yeah, i started reviewing 89708 but it's hugeish. i really wish we had a way to test it not-in-production19:33
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jesusaurusyes, as well as figuring out automagic upgrading on the puppetmaster19:33
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jesusauruswhich implies functional testing of multiple puppet modules together19:34
zaroshould we bother with suppoting the new 'draft-published' event zuul?19:34
fungijesusaurus: i definitely agree with the overall concept however, and the terminology changes are great19:34
zaroi mean 'in zuul'19:34
mordredclarkb, fungi, jesusaurus: we have a "install modules" script already - why don't we just have it iterate over a set of git repos19:34
clarkbzaro: I don't think so19:34
clarkbzaro: I really want drafts to just die19:34
mordredI mean, it's great that puppet modules exist and all19:34
mordredand it's great that there are complex ruby ways to do that19:34
clarkbmordred: we really wnt r10k for that19:34
ianwfungi: ok, so i should just move it to devstack-gate.yaml?  or there's "misc"19:34
mordredbut we ALREADY have a compelx shell script19:34
clarkbmordred: because the shell script sucks enough19:34
fungiianw: misc is more builder and publisher macros. devstack-gate.yaml is probably the best home for it19:35
mordredbut r10k is super excessive and fancy and probably won't work for puppet apply19:35
zaroclarkb: there's an oustanding bug that wants zuul to build on draft publish event.19:35
mordredwhere as a simple script that's just a for loop of git clones is probably all we need19:35
jesusaurusmordred: the shell script is currently meant to pin all of the modules, and theres no way to say 'we trust master for some modules'19:35
clarkbmordred: I think it will work for puppet apply, you just have ot install it first and run it19:35
mordredjesusaurus: havea  ref for each thing19:35
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clarkbmordred: just like we do with the shell script19:35
mordredso - each thing either lists master or the name of some tag19:36
jesusaurusthat would work19:36
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mordredI mean, I get what you're saying with r10k - but this has been a todo list item for like 1.5 years, so maybe we're making it too hard19:36
mordredwe've already got an associative bash array19:36
mordredwhich lists versions and module names19:36
fungizaro: clarkb: i think having zuul support running jobs when it gets a draft-published event is already supportable in configuration, right (so other deployers of gerrit/zuul can make use of that)? however i agree that if we can disable drafts for review.openstack.org we should19:36
clarkbfungi: yes I think hashar added it when gerrit added the event19:37
sdaguefungi: so how big of a stretch would it be to make the puppet code live testable?19:37
clarkbfungi: so a layout.yaml update is all that is necessary19:37
zarofungi: option to disable isn't available until 2919:37
sdaguelike having it spin up dev-infra-stack? and see that it works19:37
zarofungi: i do not believe zuul even knows about drafts events19:37
clarkbzaro: I am pretty sure it does. hashar added it iirc19:38
mordredsdague: at the moment, I think we're still not automatic enough in several of our components19:38
zaroactually i know that for sure.  i have already gone down path to add it.19:38
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mordredsdague: I think it's an AWESOME idea though19:38
mordredand would love for it to be a thing19:38
clarkbzaro: yup it does19:38
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clarkbzaro: git grep draft19:38
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zaroclarkb: did that merge?19:38
clarkbzaro: yes forever ago19:38
fungizaro: https://review.openstack.org/2269019:39
jesusaurusmordred: what bits arent automatic enough?19:39
mordredinstalling jenkins. installing errit19:39
fungizaro: merged more than a year ago19:39
jesusaurussdague: ive been playing with some lxc's that mimic infra and i run test.sh there19:39
mordredboth have manual steps. several.19:39
mordredjesusaurus: if you can make it work, I'll buy you a unicorn19:39
sdaguejesusaurus: how hard would that be to convert into d-g jobs?19:39
fungittx: got anything good for the infra meeting?19:40
jesusaurussdague: im not sure, im not very familiar with d-g yet19:40
ttxfungi: nothing special19:40
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mordredjesusaurus: also - finishing the puppeting of jenkins master would be welcome19:40
jesusaurusmordred: noted19:40
mordredjesusaurus: since you were already working on jenkins puppet19:40
mordredbiggest challenge there is taht the main config.xml gets polluted with slave config19:40
mordredwhich means that $fancy will have to happen19:40
sdaguejesusaurus: we should sit down at summit at some point then and look. Because if we could auto test more of this, it would be huge.19:41
mordredsdague: ++19:41
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jesusaurussdague: sure thing19:41
zarofungi, clarkb : i don't think that change is enough.  need to add the draft event to layout as well so zuul can recognize it.  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92268/119:42
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clarkbzaro: yes you need to update the layout.yaml19:42
clarkbzaro: but zuul itself doesn't need any changes19:42
clarkbzaro: what fungi was saying is that openstack doesn't need to do anything with drafts, but others can if they wish19:42
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fungiclarkb: zaro: right. for openstack's zuul deployment, it may just make sense to wait for gerrit 2.9, disable drafts, and mark that bug invalid/wontfix at that point19:43
zaroclarkb: when draft is uploaded gerrit must send a patchset-created event as well?19:43
clarkbzaro: its does but only for people that can see the draft which doesn't include zuul19:43
fungizaro: it doesn't, because then people watching the event stream would know there was a super secret draft19:44
zarook, i see where this is leading.  gonna abandon my efforts.19:44
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fungier, doesn't unless the account watching teh event stream is a reviewer on the draft19:44
clarkbya that19:44
zaroi had a difficult time with zuul tests anyways.19:44
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zaroclarkb: i think you are mistaken, zuul would need changes to understand the draft-published event.19:45
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clarkbzaro: it already has that change19:46
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clarkbzaro: `git grep draft` in the zuul repo19:46
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zaroclarkb: i can tell because this doesn't work, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92158/19:46
clarkbzaro: it should work. I am pretty sure hashar is using it19:47
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zaroclarkb: tests don't seem to pass.19:47
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clarkbzaro: voluptuus is complaining about something19:48
zaroclarkb: i thought it's because zuul doesn't undertand that new event. so that's why my attempt at updating zuul.19:48
clarkbzaro: but I think draft-published is sound19:48
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zaroclarkb: hmm.  i'll ask hasher for input on it then.19:49
fungiyeah, i think it's just not in the validation mapping19:49
fungiprobably needs a very minor testing fix to add that19:49
zarogood news then :)19:49
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fungikrotscheck: i've used storyboard very minimally, and want to say you've done some awesome work, but unfortunately i don't have any particular requests outside of the current roadmap19:52
krotscheckfungi: Thanks!19:52
fungithough i definitely plan to be in the summit session for it19:52
krotscheckfungi: I feel like I could go a bit faster though :/19:52
fungikrotscheck: we'll bolt some wheels on you19:52
krotscheck…. ow.19:52
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krotscheckJust get me drunk first.19:52
fungikrotscheck: that's a nightly agenda item during the summit, i think19:53
fungidid anybody else have anything for open discussion?19:53
clarkbnone here19:53
fungiguess i'll button this one up. thanks everyone! hope to see you all at the summit. travel safely19:54
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:54
openstackMeeting ended Tue May  6 19:54:43 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:54
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-06-19.01.html19:54
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-06-19.01.txt19:54
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-06-19.01.log.html19:54
mattoliverauthanks fungi19:55
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ttxAnyone here for the TC meeting ?20:00
mikalAlso, hello and good morning20:00
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ttxrussellb, annegentle, devananda, vishy, markmcclain, jeblair, jaypipes : around ?20:00
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mikalanne said she couldn't make it IIRC20:01
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ttxsame for devananda20:01
sdaguejeblair and russellb are out20:01
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ttxand here comes markmcclain20:01
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ttxok then let's start20:01
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ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue May  6 20:01:53 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxYay, first meeting of the Juno membership!20:01
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ttxThe agenda for today is intentionally light, mostly around selecting chair and making some announcements:20:02
mordredwelcome new people20:02
jeblairi'm here20:02
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ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee20:02
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markmcwelcome :)20:02
ttxFirst things first, we should approve the new membership into governance:20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/9239520:02
ttxwould be good to approve it now with 7+ yes20:02
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mordredjaypipes: or, you know, very old people20:02
jaypipesmordred: :P20:03
jeblairhe's not THAT old20:03
devanandasort of here - at least until this plane takes off20:03
ttxalthough I guess it could count as a basic change20:03
jeblairdevananda: is attending mordred style20:03
markmcclainlooks like we've got 720:03
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mikalYeah, it should be trivial to vote it thorugh20:04
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ttx#topic Selection of the TC chair20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Selection of the TC chair (Meeting topic: tc)"20:04
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ttxThis role is defined in the Foundation bylaws and the TC Charter.20:04
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mikalDo we nominate people? I don't remember20:04
ttxThe TC chair is responsible for making sure meetings are held according to the rules of our charter, and for communicating the decisions taken during those meetings to the Board of Directors and the OpenStack community at large.20:04
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ttxBasically, the chair organizes and chairs the meetings, keeps track of resolutions and votes, sends out minutes when needed, maintains the TC wiki pages [3], keeps track of the Active Technical Contributors roster, etc.20:04
markmc(and for being prepared enough to copy and paste stuff into irc during meetings rather than making us wait while he/she types)20:05
ttxthe [3] gives it away though20:05
ttxSince that's part of my job description I'm happy to continue doing it. Do we have other candidates ?20:05
* jaypipes nominates ttx20:05
mikalI nominate ttx20:05
markmcdefinitely :)20:05
ttxOh why, here is a change to vote on that!20:06
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/9246120:06
* vishy is shocked20:06
jaypipesttx: thou plan hast failed.20:06
mikalHeh, fastest approval ever20:06
mikalThat has its 7 votes20:07
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ttxThanks everyone!20:07
jaypipesno, thank YOU20:07
ttx#topic TC meeting time20:07
*** openstack changes topic to "TC meeting time (Meeting topic: tc)"20:07
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ttxShall we keep this time and place for the TC meeting ?20:07
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mikalSo... who is horribly hurt if we shift this meeting by an hour to being later in the day?20:08
ttxI think we actually reduced our exposition to weird TZ his time20:08
ttxmikal: me20:08
mikalThis is a 5am start for me, but I can keep doing it if its the least worst choice20:08
mikalI just want you guys to feel sorry for me20:08
ttxand one hour later is the project/release meeting20:08
jaypipesmikal: hour or two later is fine with me20:08
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* ttx wouldn't look forward having that meeting at 1am20:09
jeblairi'm flexible, but want to attend both -- maybe we can swap them?20:09
mikalSwapping wouldn't help me20:09
ttxjeblair: wouldn't solve mikal's issue though20:09
mikalIf its really 1am for ttx, let's stick with this time20:09
mikalI knew the meeting time when I ran20:09
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mikalI just want sympathy hugs20:09
ttxwell, would end at 1am IF we push back one hour20:09
* jaypipes sends hugs20:09
jaypipescourse, they won't get there until tomorrow..20:10
sdaguestupid round earth20:10
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* mordred hands mikal a cat20:10
ttxmikal: I'm happy to help you find a new home near UTC time20:10
mikalttx: do you want to do a vote resolution thingie for the meeting time?20:10
ttxmikal: we also have internet!20:10
ttxmikal: not really20:10
mikalttx: I like my home. We have snakes.20:11
mikalttx: just a concesus here then?20:11
ttxlet's keep it the way it is and revisit once we miss mikal a few times20:11
mikalI'm +1 on staying at this time then20:11
ttx#topic Live TC gathering/dinner in Atlanta20:11
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ttxmordred: how is the organization of the TC dinner going ?20:11
mordredgoing well20:12
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mordredalthough I need to call a person and give them my credit card details20:13
ttxconfirmed on Thursday ?20:13
dhellmannlet it be me, please, let it be me!20:13
* ttx books20:13
mordredI figure we meet up outside of the last session20:13
mordredand go over together20:13
sdaguesounds good20:13
markmcclainsounds good20:13
mordredalso - somebody should let lifeless and markmcclain know too?20:13
ttxyou mean jgriffith20:14
sdaguethere was at one point a talk of a non dinner gathering20:14
mordredI do?20:14
* mordred sucks20:14
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mordredyes. in fact, markmcclain is right here20:14
mikalWhat time was it again?20:14
mordredmikal: after the last summit session20:14
mikalStraight after the summit sessions?20:14
mordredmeet at summit session, wander over/get cabs20:14
markmcclainwhere are we wandering?20:14
sdaguetry not to have cabs run off the road20:14
markmcclainsweet he was finalist of beard award yesterday20:15
mikalsdague: so true20:15
ttxsdague: we already have a few gatherings scheduled with the TC/BoD thing and the ops meeting meet the TC thing20:15
jaypipesoh I'll have to figure out what to wear. what a bother.20:15
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markmcclainsdague: no highways to worry about this time20:15
mordredjaypipes: we have a private room20:15
mordredjaypipes: so don't worry about it20:15
* devananda updates calendar20:15
ttxjaypipes: just wear something.20:16
ttx#topic Joint BoD/TC meeting in Atlanta20:17
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markmc#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/11May2014JointMeeting20:17
ttxSunday before summit, between 3pm and 5pm we'll have the joint TC/BoD meeting20:17
ttxagenda at link markmc posted20:17
markmcthis hour with 11 topics?20:17
ttx(I copy paste but i can adapt)20:17
markmclightning talk format or what?20:17
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lifelessmordred: I am here ;)20:17
ttxIt will be followed by a dinner at 6:30pm, where the Foundation staff and the User committee are also invited20:17
ttxDinner will be at Der Biergarten (2 blocks from the Omni / Georgia World Congress Center) 300 Marietta St NW20:17
ttxmarkmc: no comment :)20:18
markmcwe're close to 40 people at this meeting, right?20:18
ttxI think those are board meeting minutes, not metric minutes.20:18
markmcthe board has never been this ambitious with their agenda20:19
markmcand this is even more people :)20:19
vishy11 topics does seem a little agressive20:19
vishy* aggressive20:19
mordredlifeless: we're doing TC dinner Thursday night and you're invited20:20
ttxespecially with everyoe around the table wanting to talk to show why they are present20:20
lifelessmordred: cool20:20
ttxvishy: I'm pretty sure we won't end at 5pm, but rather at 6:30pm20:20
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jeblairyeah, i think we'll need to keep to a strict schedule20:20
ttxjeblair: we might need to skip some topics to give more time to others20:21
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ttxI'd like to make sure we get to "Clarify devs usage of the OpenStack trademark"20:21
ttxas well have at least 5min to raise the 'CLA' issue20:22
jeblairdepends on whether we think we can actually solve them, or if the benefit is to try to get to some common ground on all of them20:22
lifelessmordred: will you be sending invites via mail ?20:22
dhellmanndid we discuss the priorities on these topics at an earlier meeting?20:22
vishythe product management question is most interesting to me20:22
mordredlifeless: nope. meet us after the final session of the day thursday and you can tag along20:23
* devananda drops offthe meeting as the plane takes off20:23
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ttxdhellmann: we made a list of suggestions, and the board accepted almost all of them in the agenda20:23
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ttxand didn't add much of its own20:23
dhellmannttx: ok, I was wondering about how the times were allocated20:23
dhellmannoh, this isn't just our portion of the agenda?20:23
ttxdhellmann: I just accepted Alan's time allocation20:23
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ttxdhellmann: those two hours are the part that is allocated to the joint meeting yes20:24
dhellmanngot it20:24
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dhellmanna lot of these topics seem like things that aren't going to be solved by a meeting with the board, and the things that *are* important to discuss in person haven't been given much time20:25
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ttxdhellmann: I think the goal is to discuss and align on a set of priorities, as well as let a few problems surface20:26
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ttxwell, anyway, we'll see how it goes20:26
markmcis there a leader for each of those topics?20:26
ttxdoes anyone already know they won't be able to make it ?20:27
markmcmight be more effective20:27
ttxmarkmc: that's a good idea20:27
mikalmarkmc: I agree having a moderator would help20:27
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lifelessmordred: meed you where20:27
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lifeless*meet* you where20:27
markmcleader gives 60 second intro, 10 minutes for comments from others, then move on20:27
mikalmarkmc: but I think it needs to be someone who doesn't hold a storng stance20:27
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dhellmannI would expect the alan to moderate, but we should have someone ready to speak briefly on each topic20:27
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mikalmarkmc: i.e. the moderator has to stay out of the conversation and just guide20:27
ttxmarkmc: the meeting is co-chaired by Alan and myself, but that doesn't mean we'd be the best moderators for EVERY topic20:27
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ttxmarkmc: I'll reach to Alan and try to put a name in front of all of those20:28
markmcyeah, I'm talking more about someone to introduce the topic and talk about it20:28
markmcprobably should be the person who proposed it for the agenda :)20:28
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dhellmanndoes the board follow any formal rules for running its meetings? would those apply here?20:28
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ttx#action ttx to reach to Alan to see if we can have a moderator for each topic to speed up meeting20:28
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ttxdhellmann: it's not a board meeting, so those rules wouldn't apply20:29
ttx#action ttx to prepare the homework reading for the board20:29
dhellmannok, just trying to set my expectations appropriately20:29
mikalttx: please send us the homework too20:29
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mikalttx: so we have a shared starting state20:29
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ttxmikal: that would probably be a couple of my blogposts on the hitory of the TC20:29
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ttxI need to check if what I wrote back then still applies20:30
mikalttx: oh, ok.20:30
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ttxmikal: it's like "before the TC there was the PPB20:30
dhellmannttx: if it does, we should put it in the history section of the governance repo for safe-keeping20:30
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mikalttx: I was thinking more specific to the topics under discussion than that20:30
ttxmikal: oh, no, it's just that the BoD members sometimes have no idea what the TC is about20:30
ttxlike they think the Board is above it20:31
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rustlebeethat's kinda sad20:31
ttxso rather than spend meeting time explaining it, Alan suggested that I prepare some homework reading for board members20:31
mikalI've had at least two conversations about who should set the roadmap for OpenStack overall recently, so that would be a nice thing to discuss over dinner too20:31
mikalBut I don't think we should add it to that agenda, as its too full already20:31
markmcit's kinda there already20:32
markmcexternal view of goals, product management, integrating user feedback, etc.20:32
mikalYeah, this is more "where will openstack be in two / five years"20:32
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mikalBut anyway, its an over beer conversation20:33
markmcclainmikal: probably be too many people at dinner to have effective conversation about it20:33
ttxOK, anything more on that subject ?20:33
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markmckinda related, just thougt of it20:33
markmca new initiative by some board members20:33
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markmcwas mentioned on foundation@ list20:34
markmcends with "    Once the Board has approved the work group report from the previous phases, the workgroup will engage community members to execute Action Plans. This could include developing new blue prints, making upstream contributions and engage with other work groups (ex. analyst relations) to collaborate on the appropriate actions. "20:34
markmcjust FYI for everyone that this is happening20:34
mikalThat's very inline with what people are asking me about road maps20:34
jaypipesgod I hate the term "enterprise".20:35
mikali.e. who at the foundation / board / tc is tracking feature gaps which hurt openstack adoption and fixing them20:35
markmcI'm sure the board members involved would appreciate input on providing that input and action plans in an effective way20:35
mikalYeah, I only just learnt about this initiative20:35
rustlebeea lot of that is happening downstream20:35
mikalI shall read the etherpad20:35
rustlebeebut some more coordination would probably be a productive thing20:35
mikalrustlebee: it would be nice to have more cooperation on that stuff20:35
ttxit's also stepping over the user committee, but meh20:35
lifelessI think sdagues point about the user survey effectiveness is very relevant here20:35
mikalrustlebee: to avoid forking etc20:35
rustlebeekind of orthogonal to forking, i think20:36
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rustlebeei just mean that downstreams do these things to set their own priorities for what to work on upstream20:36
mikalrustlebee: ok, let me rephrase as "duplicated effort"20:36
markmcI think we should welcome any group attempting to put together analysis like this20:36
vishyrustlebee: the problem is that is leading to what we have today20:36
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vishywhich is an explosion of incubated projects20:37
markmcdoesn't let us off the hook from highlighting what we see are gaps tho20:37
ttxI suggest we move on to "minor governance change" and we use open discussion to continue to talk about that joint meeting20:37
vishyand some core concerns not getting addressed20:37
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mikalttx: that's fine with me20:37
ttx#topic Minor governance changes20:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Minor governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)"20:37
ttxI selected a number of minor changes that should probably not wait two weeks to make further progress:20:37
ttx* Adds integrated and incubated release names to programs.yaml (https://review.openstack.org/81859)20:37
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ttxThis one is ripe for approval and will cause a number of rebases20:38
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ttxwill approve after meeting unless someone objects20:38
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ttx* Update sphinx doc repository layout and toctrees (https://review.openstack.org/91422)20:38
dhellmannI fixed that one up based on feedback about the symlinks20:38
ttxThis one will need to be rebased on top of the recent membership updates20:38
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ttxbut then it can be approved if nobody objects20:39
dhellmannyep, I'll do that tomorrow20:39
ttx* Render member list in HTML output (https://review.openstack.org/91450)20:39
ttxDepends on the previous one20:39
dhellmannthat will be rebased at the same time20:39
ttxalso a logistics change, will be approved if nobody objects20:39
ttx* Add project mission statement for Ceilometer (https://review.openstack.org/87526)20:39
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ttxThis one still needs some feedback from the OP. Will approve if it gets 7 +1s (and shall be rebased on top of Anne's change)20:40
ttx* Add the Kite key distribution service to programs.yaml (https://review.openstack.org/84811)20:40
mikalttx: jogo has some questions about the ceilometer one, but I asked him to comment on the review20:40
mikalttx: not sure if he's done it yet though20:40
jogomikal: I have20:40
ttxwe are waiting to hear back from the owner20:40
ttxThis one looks good, we could use the formal approval of the PTL there but once we have it, i'll approve this unless someone complains20:40
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ttxalso will need to be rebased on top of Anne's change20:41
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ttxor was it already20:41
ttxyes it was20:41
ttx* Add oslo.db to the Oslo program (https://review.openstack.org/90127)20:41
ttxThis one has PTL approval, but will need to be rebased on top of Anne's change20:41
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ttxAll of those are not really policy changes but mostly maintenance and logistics, so will approve them without waiting for 7 YES unless someone posts a -120:42
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* ttx approves Anne's one now20:43
dhellmannttx: https://review.openstack.org/92429 is similar, adding oslo.i18n20:43
ttxdhellmann: ok20:44
ttxAnne's one is now merged, that should clarify20:44
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ttx#topic Open discussion20:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:45
ttxWe shall obviously skip next week meeting20:45
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ttxFor the week after, we have 4 projects left on our requirements gap analysis20:46
ttxGlance Swift Horizon and Heat20:46
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ttxI'll see which one can go next20:47
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ttxmore discussion about the joint meeting ?20:47
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ttxis everyone coming ?20:47
mikalI don't need to talk about the joint meeting any more20:47
mikalI'm coming though20:47
rustlebeeyep, will be there.20:48
dhellmannI'll be there20:48
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ttxany specific bullet point from the agenda you want a clear outcome from ?20:49
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ttxmy pick would be on "Clarify devs usage of the OpenStack trademark"20:49
dhellmannI'd like the discussion of the CLA to at least lead to a "next step" decision20:51
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dhellmannthe response to those patches that were blocked because people couldn't sign the CLA this cycle was underwhelming.20:51
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ttxI hope the CLA discussion will reboot some members opinion about it20:52
ttxso far they have had only the lawyers part of the story20:52
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ttxit can't hurt to hear the community side20:52
ttxnot sure that will get to a "next action" though20:52
ttxalso the dinner could be a better way to win the hearts of members over this issue20:53
markmcwell, next action will be to discuss further at the cross-project session20:53
ttxonce it's been introduced as an issue, even for just 5 min20:53
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dhellmannmarkmc: are the board members going to be able to get into that?20:53
markmcbeyond that, it'll be getting into bringing a real proposal for change to the board20:53
markmcdhellmann, dunno, it's not the audience I hoped for anyway20:54
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ttxdhellmann: we first need rough consensus in the dev community about it20:54
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markmcI'll have some background material for the board by Sunday20:54
ttxAnything else, anyone?20:54
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ttxCan't wait to see you all in a few days20:55
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sdaguesafe travels all20:55
mikalYep, looking forward to it20:56
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mikalI need to change location before the next meeting, so dropping offline for a sec20:57
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ttxtime to end meeting, thanks all20:58
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue May  6 20:59:24 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:59
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-05-06-20.01.html20:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-05-06-20.01.txt20:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-05-06-20.01.log.html20:59
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ttxdhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, eglynn, markwash, jgriffith, mikal, zaneb, david-lyle, kmestery, SlickNik, mtreinish, annegentle, jeblair, dtroyer, jraim, kgriffs, devananda, SergeyLukjanov, lifeless: around ?21:00
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ttx#startmeeting project21:01
openstackMeeting started Tue May  6 21:01:09 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'project'21:01
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ttxWe'll once again abuse the meeting today to discuss final Juno Design Summit scheduling21:01
ttxAgenda at:21:01
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ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting21:01
ttxShould be a quick one21:01
ttx#topic Design Summit schedule finalization21:01
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ttxWe need to produce something near-final by EOD today, so that the summit org crew can start working on session signage21:01
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ttxIt's fine to make last-minute changes after that if we need to, but we'll have to communicate all those changes21:02
ttxI'd suggest post to the -dev ML if you update anything, and i'll make sure the crew gets the news21:02
ttxWe are still missing the Barbican schedule because for some reason Jarret isn't recognized as lead by the app21:02
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ttxjraim: got my email ?21:02
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jraimttx: yep. Just replied with our sessions.21:02
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ttxjraim: do you have time after the meeting (will end early) so that we work on this ?21:04
jraimttx sure.21:04
ttxEveryone else: Any change or conflict you'd like to discuss ?21:04
mikalI'm not tracking any21:05
jeblairnone from infra21:05
mesteryNothing from neutron21:05
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mtreinishnothing from qa21:05
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* SergeyLukjanov here, reading scrollback21:05
david-lylenone for Horizon21:05
dolphmA federation design session conflicts with one a federation-related topic from the main conference: http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/ab0966f5ec41f78e929effd499e0286f conflicts with http://openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/event/11b6f75c349b0bffe204e3cb2880d4c0 ...21:05
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kgriffsnone for marconi21:05
dolphmwas hoping to trade the Thursday 11:50a timeslot with a Thursday 4:10p timeslot (Cinder, Oslo, QA, Sahara, Swift)21:05
ttxdolphm: could you swap a few slots now ?21:05
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dolphmi'd like to get keystone people into that main conference session if possible21:06
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ttxhmm, let me see how that could work21:06
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SergeyLukjanovSlickNik, could you probably swap "clustering future" slot with something earlier to avoid conflict with sahara? (we've agreed on prev. summit to tru help on this topic)21:07
ttxdolphm: you could swap it with oslo's 3:10pm slot21:07
dhellmannttx: some of the keystone folks need to be in that session21:08
dhellmannthe 4:10 slot might work better21:08
jeblairHA!  there's a conference talk about infra scheduled _during_ an infra session.21:08
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dolphmdhellmann: that's the only option on thursday that i see that wouldn't be compromising something (for keystone, anyway)21:08
eglynnttx: just to clarify ... further scheduling changes are fine without any special actions by when exactly, EoD today? (or first thing Euro-time tmrw?)21:08
ttxdolphm: swap with Horizon Friday 10:50am ?21:09
SlickNikSergeyLukjanov: There's a Replication talk earlier in the user summit that some trove folks are involved with that makes that hard to do. :(21:09
ttxeglynn: first thing EU time tomorrow21:09
sdaguejeblair: yeh, well my talk is scheduled during QA track. Conflicts happen :)21:09
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david-lyledolphm: horizon session at 3:30 Wed?21:09
dolphmttx: that works, but would prefer thursday21:09
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eglynnttx: cool thanks! (I've got an oslo track conflict I'm trying to work around)21:09
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dhellmanneglynn: if dolphm and I swap, the suggestion I made for the time change for you won't be available21:10
dolphmdavid-lyle: we have *another* main conference session on horizon on thursday, that we're hoping to use to drive some stakeholders into this design session, so that won't work21:10
SergeyLukjanovSlickNik, probably with one of the first two slots? (testing and scheduling automated tasks service)21:10
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ttxdolphm: trying to find a slot to swap from that has the same QA/infra/docs maping21:10
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dolphmttx: have a link to your google doc handy?21:10
jeblairsdague: the infra talk is not being presented by an infra contributor, so it's not an urgent conflict; just interesting.  would have liked to see that one.  ;)21:10
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eglynndhellmann: darn! ... so what would be available in its stead?21:11
ttxdolphm: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmUn0hzC1InKdGNXcWlWX0FIekQxbUtvRVlnVF9IV3c&usp=drive_web#gid=521:11
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ttxdolphm: swap with Oslo Tuesday 11:50am ?21:11
dhellmanneglynn: nevermind, I had my days mixed up -- you're talking about wed and I'm talking about thurs21:12
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ttxdolphm: swap with Oslo wednesday 11:00am ?21:12
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eglynndhellmann: ... cool, np, I'll continue checking that potential rejiggering so21:12
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dolphmttx: this session needs to follow a 9:50a thursday main conference session21:12
dhellmannttx: what's the other half of that swap?21:13
ttxdolphm: no Wednesday, not Friday, that limits the options21:13
dolphmttx: friday is alright21:13
clarkbjeblair: have a link?21:13
ttxdhellmann: Keystone Thursday 11:50am21:13
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jeblairclarkb: openstacksummitmay2014atlanta.sched.org/event/956b69c8f72eb37e8f0f89400b2f8f5721:14
jeblairclarkb: thursday 11:50am21:14
jeblairseems to be a common trouble spot21:15
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ttxdolphm: if dhellmann is OK with it, we could swap slots with Thursday 4:10pm21:15
dolphmttx: that'd be ideal for me21:15
clarkbjeblair: that does sound interesting. would also be neat if they collaborated with us :)21:15
dhellmannttx, dolphm : that would work for me21:15
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dolphmdhellmann: ttx: thanks21:15
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ttxjust increases the overlap between Oslo and infra (and reduces overlap between Oslo and QA)21:16
ttxdolphm, dhellmann: ok let me update the DB21:16
dhellmannhang on21:16
* ttx hangs21:16
jeblairttx: which oslo slot is going in there?21:16
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SlickNikSergeyLukjanov: There's 2 trove sessions that are overlapping that makes this hard "Running HA Trove" at 9:50, and "Introduction to OpenStack Trove" at 11:0021:16
ttxjeblair: rpc proxy(oslo.messaging)21:16
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jeblairi think we can live with that21:17
dhellmannthat's the rpc proxy session, for which I need some of the neutron team I think21:17
dhellmannand moving it conflicts21:17
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SlickNikSergeyLukjanov: Will moving it out later to the afternoon help with the scheduling?21:17
SergeyLukjanovSlickNik, nope, sahara sessions starting afternoon :)21:17
ttxdhellmann: does it ?21:17
SergeyLukjanovSlickNik, let's keep it as is21:17
ttxdhellmann: ah yes21:17
jeblairbut if anyone needs a thursday 11:50 slot i'd be happy to give it up21:17
SergeyLukjanovSlickNik, I'll ask someone from sahara community to attend this session anyway21:17
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dolphmthere's a neutron session (modular layer2 agents) at 11:50a which would then conflict with oslo's rpc proxy21:18
dhellmannttx: let me see if I can move something else21:18
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dhellmanndolphm: yeah, those 2 groups are going to overlap a lot21:18
dhellmannmoving oslo stuff around is pretty hard this time -- lots of overlap, by its nature21:19
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ttxdolphm, dhellmann: Friday's 2:10pm one ?21:19
dolphmdavid-lyle: any problems moving horizon's devops session to thursday @ 11:50a ?21:19
dhellmannttx: that might be easier to move, if the slot works for dolphm21:20
ttxdhellmann: argh no21:20
* david-lyle looking21:20
ttxdhellmann: that would double book two of my sessions21:20
dhellmannttx: how about 4:00 friday?21:20
dolphmhrmph - the main conference is over friday, correct?21:20
ttxdolphm: yes21:21
dhellmanndolphm: yeah21:21
dolphmbah, maybe friday isn't an option for this21:21
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ttxdolphm: running out of options, I'll let you suggest21:22
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david-lyledolphm: 11:50 Thurs for 10:50 Fri?21:22
dolphmdavid-lyle: just realized friday is less than ideal :(21:22
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ttxIf you have other questions about the Design Summit (or anything else related to next week), please ask21:23
ttxNote that you are all invited to the "Meet the PTLs and TC" session of the Ops meetup:21:23
ttx#link http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/event/7f51ddc783eeda1789f31230b22e044421:23
ttxlet's continue the slot swapping in open discussion21:24
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ttx#topic Open discussion21:24
mesteryttx: Bummer, that session is during another panel I'm a part of :(21:24
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mikalMost clashes ever21:24
ttxmestery: we can't all be everywhere anyway21:24
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ttxNote that for Juno-integrated projects, we'll start 1:1s sync points the week after summit.21:24
dhellmannnext summit, 1 month in paris21:24
dhellmannno overlapping tracks21:24
ttxeglynn, mikal, zaneb, kmestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: If you could send me UTC times you can regularly make on Tuesdays, ahead of 21:00 UTC, that would be great21:24
mesteryttx: Yes, for sure.21:24
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jeblairdhellmann: ++21:24
dolphmi think i'm going to resort shuffling my own session slots around, which will solve half the audience problem21:25
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ttxdolphm: that's a lot simpler yes21:25
dolphmttx: simpler but less ideal!21:25
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zanebttx: will do21:25
ttxdolphm: apparently there is no ideal solution anyway21:25
eglynnttx: yep, will do21:25
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mikalttx: does Monday count as ahead of Tuesday 21:00 UTC?21:25
mikalttx: cause other options kind of suck for me21:26
ttxmikal: your Monday soes21:26
mikalOk, cool. I shall email you options.21:26
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ttxjraim: we can discuss Barbican schedule now21:26
jraimttx: k21:26
mikalttx: does that mean end of meeting for the rest of us?21:27
mesteryttx: Will send you some times offline.21:27
ttxjraim: the sessions in your email don't correspond to the suggestions I found on http://summit.openstack.org/21:27
ttxmikal: no, feel free to ask for session swaps if you need some21:27
ttxmikal: or drop off if you don't :)21:27
jraimthat's correct. We combined and moved some things around so that all the topics in on the list could be addressed21:27
mikalttx: I don't need any, but will hang around in case someone needs me for one21:27
ttxjraim: shall we enter whole new sessions and scrap the old ones ? Or try to build them from the existing ones ?21:28
jeblairi'm offering thursday at 11:50 if anyone needs it (but isn't critical for me)21:28
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SergeyLukjanovttx, sure, probably, we could use some time slot in our tz21:28
jraimI was just going to enter the new ones as the folks working on Barbican will know which topics go where21:28
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jraimAnd I was going to post a message to the -dev list with the details21:28
ttxjeblair: hey that's my slot!21:28
jraimBut I'm fine with editing existings if that is easier21:29
ttxjraim: let me see if I can fix your access21:29
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jeblairttx: yep, it conflicts with the conference talk on infra, but we can watch the video i'm sure.  :)21:30
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jraimttx: Here is the launchpad info when I log in21:30
ttxjraim: you ARE jarret-raim on Launchpad right21:30
jraim Full name: Jarret Raim21:30
jraim Username: jarret-raim21:30
jraim Email address: jarret.raim@rackspace.com21:30
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jraimOn the summit.openstack page, once I log in, it says: You are logged in as jarret-raim.21:31
ttxweird, that's what I have as lead username21:31
eglynndhellmann: FYI ceilo track now changed as discussed off-line http://junodesignsummit.sched.org/type/ceilometer#.U2lRs4qPXQL21:31
dhellmanneglynn: thanks!21:31
ttxjraim: i'll enter them all to unblock you. Could you post the description for all of them in some etherpad that I can copypaste ?21:32
jraimttx: sure21:32
SlickNikttx: will check my Tue schedule and get back to you with a good time.21:32
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jraimttx: here is the events one: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/barbican-events21:33
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ttxjraim: should I just take the top part (before use cases) as the session description ?21:34
ttxit needs to be reasonably short21:34
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jraimttx: I can cut these down to a sentence or two real quick so you can just cut and paste21:35
jraimone sec21:35
ttxjraim: that would be perfect yes21:35
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ttxIf my interaction with jraim is the only thing left in that meeting, we should probably end it and continue that off-meeting21:37
ttxjraim: let's move to #openstack-dev21:38
jraimttx: k21:38
ttxLast questions, anyone ?21:38
dolphmjraim: barbican's sessions are entirely on tuesday, correct?21:38
ttxdolphm: yes21:38
markwashttx one quick one21:39
ttxmarkwash: shoot21:39
markwashsorry I turned into a zombie for a bit, but am back21:39
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* ttx shoots anyway21:39
markwashdo you know anything about the foundation and mini-summits this next cycle?21:39
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markwashglance folks are already talking about the next one and we'd like to kick off the planning asap21:39
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mikalmarkwash: you mean mid cycle meetups?21:40
dolphmmarkwash: i think we're all in the same boat :)21:40
ttxmarkwash: not sure what the foundation would have to do with it21:40
dolphmmikal: ++21:40
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mikalmarkwash: I'd like to announce the timing for the nova one next week, but I think I need more release details first21:40
dolphmttx: we're eager to know milestone dates so we can plan mid-cycle things effectively21:40
markwashI thought maybe the foundation would put money in a t-shirt cannon21:40
markwashand fire it at the PTLs21:40
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markwashin the bleachers21:41
mikalI feel like the PTLs should negotiate a bit to avoid clashes as well21:41
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jeblairmikal: we've lost good ptls that way21:41
mikalIs there a PTLs list I can post a proposed date to?21:41
jeblairmarkwash: ^ oops21:41
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ttxdolphm: here is the current state21:42
ttxjuno-1 is likely to be June 12 or June 1921:42
ttxjuno-2 could be July 17, July 24 or July 3121:42
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ttx(trying to avoid July 2421:42
ttxwhich is OSCON week)21:42
ttxjuno-3 / feature freeze would be September 421:42
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mesteryttx: Those tenative dates help for the mid-cycle planning, thanks!21:42
mikalExcellent, thanks!21:42
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markwashokay so foundation -> wrong tree to bark at. no problem!21:43
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dolphmmikal: dibs on july 9, 10, 1121:43
* markwash stops barking21:43
ttxmarkwash: well, I can ask around21:43
dolphmalso dibs on the tshirt canon on those dates21:43
mesteryneutron mid-cycle is tenatively going to be july 9-10-11.21:43
ttxok, anything else ?21:44
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ttxguess not21:46
ttxsee you all next week!21:47
mikalSounds like we're done21:47
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:47
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openstackMeeting ended Tue May  6 21:47:09 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:47
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-05-06-21.01.html21:47
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-05-06-21.01.txt21:47
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-05-06-21.01.log.html21:47
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