Thursday, 2014-05-08

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ctraceysbalukoff: hey there13:01
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sbalukoffMorning, folks!14:00
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rm_workForgive me if I say things that don't make a lot of sense, I'm barely awake right now <_<14:01
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sbalukoffSame here.14:01
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* mestery passes rm_work an espresso. :)14:02
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rm_workmestery: if only T_T would kill for one right now14:02
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rm_workappreciate the sentiment :)14:02
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enikanorovlet's start then!14:03
enikanorov#startmeeting neutron lbaas14:03
openstackMeeting started Thu May  8 14:03:18 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is enikanorov. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas'14:03
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enikanorovI'd like to propose 2 topics for todays meeting14:04
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enikanorov1. agenda for design tracks14:04
enikanorov2. comparison of API proposals14:04
enikanorovin that order14:04
mestery+1 to that enikanorov14:04
rm_worksounds good to me14:04
rm_workerr, +114:04
enikanorovi suggest that (2) is going to take more than 1 meeting, so lets start with what is more important right now14:04
rm_workyes, (2) will probably extend into the summit14:05
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enikanorovso, as I said in email, design tracks are not a place for in-depth discussion, so we need to come up with a list of items that require core team attention14:05
enikanorovright now a have two questions in mind14:06
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enikanorovthe first one is a policy of integration with barbican14:06
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mesteryenikanorov: That one is an important session for not only LBaaS, but also VPNaaS.14:07
enikanorovmestery: are you suggesting to move it to different design track?14:07
enikanorov*design session14:07
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mesteryenikanorov: Nope, I'm just saying the VPN folks will be very interested to partake in that discussion14:07
rm_workI have friends on the barbican team, can make sure there is some representation from them at our track so they can answer questions we might have14:08
enikanorovah, sure14:08
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german_I finally found the barbican people inside HP...14:08
enikanorovthat's good to know14:08
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rm_workgerman_: I found the barbican people inside RS too, they sit within nerf dart range of me :P14:08
enikanorovso, whole SSL support then splits into 2 questions IMO:14:08
mesteryrm_work: That woudl be great!14:09
rm_workgerman_: I guess HP might be bigger :)14:09
enikanorov1) will it be ok to write DB driver for cert storage (with proper documentation)14:09
german_rm_work plane ride away :-)14:09
enikanorov2) will it be ok to rely on barbican (considering it's not an integrated project yet)14:09
mesteryIMHO, we as a larger team may need to commit resources to barbican to help with #2.14:09
samuelbercovicialso where is the canonical API resides to store and consume SSL certificates?14:10
sballe_enikanorov, Our security lead seems to think that for production Barbican is not ready yet14:10
sbalukoffWell, I know how I come down on those questions. :)14:10
mesteryIt's something we should figure out next week, as making it core will be important.14:10
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enikanorovmestery: i see14:10
enikanorovbtw, i forgot to mention14:10
sballe_but longer term Barbican is the rigth approach14:10
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german_yeah, we need to compare road maps14:11
enikanorovi suggest to write your proposed discussion items there14:11
rm_worksballe_: we brought up your exact concern with the barbican guys here and they seem to think there's work to be done but nothing that would be a showstopper for our timeline14:11
sballe_rm_work, good to know. thanks14:11
mesteryrm_work: That's good to know!14:12
enikanorovok, the next big question which i think worth discussing with a core team is 'networking function vs virtualized appliance'14:12
sballe_so let's assume barbican will be ready when we need it to be14:12
enikanorovas it a core question for our 'loadbalancer resource' discussion14:12
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TrevorVI have already spoken to one of the guys on the Barbican team here at Rackspace; he said they'll have someone at our discussions during the summit14:13
rm_workHopefully John Wood and Paul Kehrer can make it14:13
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sbalukoffenikanorov: Can you expand on that idea a bit? I'm not sure what you mean by "networking function vs. virtualized appliance"14:13
rm_workI think they're the tech lead and cryptography guy14:13
sballe_enikanorov, I agree if I am understanding your point right. Networking fucntions is core the Neutron, virtualized appliance is LBaaS or other advanced service?14:13
enikanorovsbalukoff: i'd like to, but so far that was a quite blurry explanation of why we don't want to provide 'logical loadbalancer appliance' functionality14:14
enikanorovlimiting it with particular objects like vips/pools/etc14:14
sbalukoffWhose explanation?14:14
TrevorVrm_work: John is who I spoke with14:14
enikanorovsbalukoff: Mark McClain's, for instance14:14
rm_workTrevorV: excellent :)14:14
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sbalukoffRight. I guess it's important to know, does mestery feel the same way?14:15
enikanorovsbalukoff: i think it's some project-wise design consideration that needs to be clearly explained14:15
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sbalukoffenikanorov: I agree!14:15
enikanorovso far i could not fully understand the reason behind it14:15
german_is this something we can do on the mailing list - or is that summit?14:15
sballe_enikanorov, I feel we have been down this road before and most people in the group feel that we need a loadbalancer thing and not a bucnh of pieces that a user can bundle together14:15
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sbalukoffI would *love* for someone there to quantify why they think the virtual appliance model violates concerns around "implementation details". :)14:16
rm_workgerman_: I am thinking the high-bandwidth of the summit might help a lot with this14:16
mesteryThis will be ML and Summit discussion I suspect, which is why enikanorov brought it up here.14:16
rm_workI can't seem to get my point across well in text, I think14:16
samuelbercovicienikanorov: the reason was that if the reason to use load balancer is for scheduling then there is different scemantics to use14:16
enikanorovsamuelbercovici: please explain?14:16
salv-orlandoa LoadBalancer instance, being represented as an object which can contain a collection of VIPs and other resources, probably did not seem a great construct from the user perspective. It surely did not made their life easier. Even if the counter argument is that It probably recalled how 'real' load balancers are structured.14:17
samuelbercovicilooking at the use cases they needed loadbalncer as a way to specify affinity and and anti-affinity14:17
salv-orlandoreal has been quoted because it might refer to both phisical and virtual appliances14:17
jorgemsalv-orlando: our customers (users) beg to differ14:17
enikanorovsalv-orlando: thanks14:17
samuelbercovicithis is better represented IMO in the way nove does it with insatnce groups14:17
rm_worksalv-orlando: I am curious if maybe we have different definitions of who a "user" is14:17
enikanorovso to me i goes down to a question, if a single logical loadbalancer needs more then one L2 port14:18
ctraceyjorgem: as do the thousands of elb users14:18
rm_workwhich could explain some of the confusion14:18
blogansalv-orlando: why do you think it does not seem a great construct from the user perspective?14:18
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sbalukoffsalv-orlando: Our customers also beg to differ. :)14:18
salv-orlandoI have been pointing out what came out from a discussion of a proposed API change in the Juno life cycle.14:18
salv-orlandoSorry Icehouse14:18
blogansalv-orlando: ah so is it not your opinion?14:19
salv-orlandoor was it probably Havana? It does not matter anyway.14:19
sbalukoffGot it. Time to revisit that discussion. :)14:19
enikanorovsalv-orlando: yeah, it's a long story14:19
salv-orlandoIn my opinion the problem is not a "load balancer" instance.14:19
german_let's table that for the (2) agenda iteam?14:19
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sbalukoffgerman_: +114:20
blogangerman_: agreed14:20
rm_workI almost want to table this until Monday <_<14:20
salv-orlandoMy opinion is that I don't think a good API is an API that pretty much is a RESTification of the backend API many appliances offer14:20
edhallsalv-orlando, agreed14:20
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mestery+1 salv-orlando14:20
sballe_+1 for Monday14:20
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mesteryI think this discussion is something to talk about next week. We should add this to the etherpad.14:21
sbalukoffsalv-orlando: I'd love to hear more of your opinion on this. But it can wait until Monday, eh. :)14:21
samuelbercovici+1 salv-orlando14:21
enikanorovand what is for multiple L2 ports per logical loadbalancer?14:21
ctracey+1 sbalukoff14:21
enikanorovdo we need more than one neutron port per LB?14:22
samuelbercovicienikanorov: please explain14:22
salv-orlandoenikanorov: I've not been following enough load balancing to understand what you mean here14:22
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german_ I think so14:22
enikanorovsorry, i meant do we need multiple VIPs per sinlge logical balancer14:22
german_yes, we do14:22
enikanorovi mean that each VIP has its own neutron port and IP14:22
german_a load balancer might be present in multiple subnets14:22
sballe_I agree with german_ We do14:22
samuelbercovicienikanorov: what is the use case that requires this?14:22
sbalukoffenikanorov: Given some of the use cases, we might. Though it's probably worth a more in-depth discussion of the implications of more than 1 neutron port per logical LB14:23
enikanorovgerman_: no, that's not the case14:23
enikanorovsamuelbercovici: i didn't see any, that's why i'm asking14:23
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enikanorovgerman_: 1 neutron port can be on multiple subnets also14:23
sballe_enikanorov, can you clarify "that is not the use case"?14:23
enikanorovgerman_: we don't need multiple VIPs to handle that14:23
samuelbercovicienikanorov: the ones I have seen in the tenant facing use cases were for scheduling purposes14:23
vivek-ebayIP:80 for HTTP, SAME_IP:443 for HTTPS. does what use-case fit here ?14:24
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sbalukoffenikanorov: Introducing the restriction that a logical load balancer must exist on only one neutron port might make sense--  I'd love to hear / see discussion as to why it does or doesn't.14:24
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enikanorovvivek-ebay: that is handled by 1 VIP+multiple listeners model14:24
enikanorovvivek-ebay: not multiple VIPs14:24
enikanorovsbalukoff: I think it's fair limitation. If we go beyong it, we put user in much control of a backend14:25
TrevorVenikanorov: what about ipv4 and ipv6?14:25
ctracey+1 enikanorov14:25
mesteryFolks, I'd like to point out we're wandering a bit here off the agenda proposed at the start of the meeting.14:25
enikanorovTrevorV: that's multiple subnets14:25
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enikanorovTrevorV: still single neutron port and hence 1 VIP14:25
mesteryWe're 25 minutes in and we need to focus on items to discuss F2F next week.14:25
jorgemmestery: indeed14:26
enikanorovmestery: true14:26
sbalukoffmestery: +114:26
samuelbercovicimestery: +114:26
mesteryCan people update the etherpad here with those ideas?
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sbalukoffenikanorov: Let's discuss via ML14:26
mesteryenikanorov linked it earlier. :)14:26
sballe_I am assuming the APIs should be a item on the summit agenda14:26
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enikanorovsballe_: we hardly will be able to discuss it on design session14:27
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enikanorovi don't think it makes sense to cover it...14:27
enikanorovdesign session is even shorter than our weekly meeting14:27
bloganmestery: what is the current topic?14:27
mesteryblogan: Summit ideas for next week to discuss F2F14:27
enikanorovblogan: agenda for design sessions14:27
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sballe_enikanorov, The problem is we need to get agreement around the APIs otherwise we are going nowhere and we know from the past that it is hard to discuss it on IRC14:28
samuelbercoviciWhen do we want to review the survey results?14:28
enikanorovsballe_: that is something we do offline, but not on the design session14:28
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mesterysballe_: The second part of this meeting was around the API comparison.14:28
ctraceyDoes it make sense to grab a spare meeting room for a breakout session? I have done this with other projects and it had been quite useful.14:28
rm_workenikanorov / sballe_: we should probably have open discussions about it prior to official sessions, and TRY to use the official sessions to agree officially on a direction?14:28
mesterysballe_: If we're done with summit ideas, we can move there.14:28
jorgemAfter API, how about HA and SSL Term since the requirements point towards that being top priority?14:29
sballe_rm_work, +114:29
german_jorgem +114:29
sbalukoffjorgem: +114:29
enikanorovjorgem: please write it on the etherpad then14:29
german_also I am still new and would like to learn more about the dev process / and how to divvy up work14:29
samuelbercoviciI would like to present SSL and L7 in light of what was done and the proposals14:29
samuelbercovici2nd session could be used for this14:30
sballe_german_, +1 same here14:30
jorgemenikanorov: complete14:30
mesteryFor the dev process, we will need BPs approved for all the LBaaS work before any changes will be accepted into Juno.14:30
enikanorovok, on slightly different matter14:30
mesteryWe should ideally ahve those in review the week after the summit.14:30
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enikanorovi'll be able to host a meeting at mirantis room some time on wednesday14:31
bloganmestery: is it first a neutron-spec BP, then a neutron BP, then do the work?14:31
enikanorovwhat time will be most appripriate for you foklks?14:31
sballe_I am going to add API to the list with the caveat taht is is more around as rm_work said "agreeing on a direction"14:31
mesteryblogan: A BP in neutron-specs, which is linked from the LP BP. The LP BP is only used to track progress against milestones.14:31
bloganmestery: thanks that clears it up for me14:31
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jorgemsballe: Corret, hopefully we can do that today since that is what was suggested last week.14:32
mesteryjorgem: Yes!14:32
mesteryShould we move to API comparison now?14:32
rm_workjorgem: agreeing on a direction? :P14:32
TrevorV+1 mestery14:32
mesteryI think we have enough ideas for next week to discuss in person now as I look at the etherpad.14:33
rm_workI think that might be a longshot for the next 27 minutes T_T14:33
jorgemrm_work: for the API. There are only two proposals. So let's pick one14:33
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sballe_jorgem, I can delete the item from the tehrpad if we close it today14:33
rm_workjorgem: as I said in my email, I really don't think that should be the goal14:33
jorgemsballe: Sounds good to me14:33
mesteryjorgem: The idea was to find gaps as the proposals were close, correct?14:33
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jorgemmestery: Yes I believe so.14:33
rm_work"I'd like to assume that what we're really discussing is making a third revision of the proposal, rather than whether to use one or the other verbatim."14:33
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bloganmestery: i spoke to sbalukoff about making a change to his API that I think we, as Rackspace, can get behind14:34
bloganmestery: I believe stephen said he is on board with this14:34
jorgemrm_work: We are trying to find a foundation. It isn't set in stone verbatim.14:34
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sbalukoffblogan: Yep, I am!14:34
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bloganmestery: this will hopefully speed that process up of choosing an API14:34
mesterySo, have we reached a consensus then between the two proposals due to the discussions blogan and sbalukoff have had?14:34
sbalukoffrm_work: I also agree that whatever we end up with will not be exactly (verbatim) like either of our existing proposals.14:35
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jorgemmestery: Perhaps, but I think they should explain the changes.14:35
jorgemsbalukoff: Correct, even though a lot of time and thought have been put into the proposals I still think we will inadvertently miss some small things.14:36
bloganso really the only change is load balancer is the top level object, but it has an array of VIPs, and each VIP has an array of Listeners14:36
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german_sounds good :-)14:36
sbalukoffSo, this is somewhat a return to the "virtual appliance" model.14:36
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enikanorovsbalukoff: yes, that's something a core team is not accepting14:37
sbalukoffThat I think a *lot* of people here like, and are waiting to hear why we can't do this. XD14:37
jorgemand stuff like colocation goes on the lb object correct?14:37
sballe_sbalukoff, +114:37
bloganjorgem: yes14:37
rm_workI am curious if, upon reviewing the Rackspace CLB API, and the Amazon ELB API, the same people who disagree with using the term LB here would argue for those APIs to change their terminology too <_<14:37
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sbalukoffblogan +114:37
enikanorovrm_work: it's not about the term14:37
rm_workenikanorov: it seems to be14:38
enikanorovrm_work: it's about the API construct14:38
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bloganenikanorov: can you give more details about what is not liked about the construct?14:38
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rm_workthe only real opposition I keep hearing is that it doesn't "correctly give an impression of what is contained" or something like that14:38
rm_worklike "it only contains one L2 thing and not multiple, so it's not really a LB", etc14:39
enikanorovblogan: i can only refer to a salv-orlando opinion, and also i don't see a reason to have more than 1 l2 port per loadbalancer14:39
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rm_work(I am quoting badly but i don't have time to look up the exact text right now, since this moves so quickly, sorry)14:39
sballe_we are now back in this circle that we haven't been able ot get out off since we started discussing this14:39
bloganenikanorov: the API doesn't define how many L2 ports are actually created14:39
enikanorovblogan: i mean l2 ports for the front end14:40
sbalukoffRegardless of the name of the thing (I'm not strongly either way on this-- and y'all have heard my opinion in detail on the mailing list), I think it's more about the logical construct of the virtual appliance in the model.14:40
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mesterysbalukoff: The API is defining the construction of the virtual appliance? Not following this.14:41
ctracey+1 sbalukoff14:41
* rm_work starts looking up the ascii-art for flipping a table14:41
sbalukoffenikanorov: I would like to see ML discussion from you as to why you think we should introduce the restriction that a load balancer construct should only have one L2 port on the front end.14:41
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enikanorovsbalukoff: i'd better ask why we want more then one14:42
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sbalukoffmestery: Yes. So essentially, when a user interacts with the "load balancer as a service" the thing they get is an abstracted logical load balancer (which can contain VIPs, Listeners, Pools, etc.)14:42
aburaschiWhere would the right doc to look to better understand the NVF vs Virtual Appliance approaches we're discussing?14:42
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sbalukoffmestery: It makes the colocation / apolocation problem a lot easier.14:43
samuelbercovicisbalukoff: besides scheduling VIPs in the same place or on different places, what is the reason to have loadbalancer as an object that can contain multiple vips?14:43
sbalukoffAnd it gives us a thing we can use to answer operator concerns later on.14:43
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sbalukoffsamuelbercovici: From the user's perspective, that is the reason!14:44
bloganenikanorov: if a user defines multiple VIPs in the API why can't that all go into one L2 Port?14:44
enikanorovsbalukoff: but that problem has other solutions rather than putting it on user's shoulders14:44
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sbalukoffBut I think as we further discuss operator concerns, operators will have more reasons to have this construct.14:44
enikanorovblogan: multiple listeners you mean14:44
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salv-orlandoI want to throw a bit more chaos… and that's about harmony across all areas of the APIs. I have a feeling that this moves in the opposite direction wrt activities such as policies-oriented APIs are moving.14:44
samuelbercovicisbalukoff: than we can use policies for placement similar to nova14:44
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sbalukoffenikanorov: They might be able to.14:44
salv-orlandoor am I reading it wrong?14:44
enikanorovsamuelbercovici: +114:44
samuelbercoviciyou don's see a root object called hypervisor in nova14:45
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enikanorovsalv-orlando: correct14:45
TrevorVenikanorov: You've stated many times multiple ips on a single neutron port, but looking into the Neutron Port documentation, it defines one subnet for these multiple ports.  This apparently negates the concept of an IPv4 and an IPv6 on the same Neutron Port, does it not?14:45
sbalukoffsamuelbercovici: But you do see a virtual server.14:45
rm_worksamuelbercovici: you do see a "server", which is equivilent to what we're talking about here14:45
TrevorVsorry, one subnet for multiple IPs14:45
enikanorovTrevorV: nope, look at fixed ips that port may have14:45
enikanorovTrevorV: we can discuss that after the meeting14:45
mesterysbalukoff: So are you saying the Open Source implementation of these new APIs will be a virtual appliance? I'm fine if the API allows for appliances as implementations (see VPNaaS), but I'm concerned if the open source default verison is an appliance.14:46
samuelbercovicinot sure I understand14:46
sbalukoffmestery: No!14:46
sbalukoffI'm not saying that!14:46
sbalukoffI'm staying there is a lot of flexibility in how you actually implement the "load balancer construct" for the user.14:46
sbalukoffVirtual appliance is one way.14:46
enikanorovsbalukoff: rm_work: virtual server is not an equivalent14:46
samuelbercovicia vip in the way sbalukoff defined is the biggest construct I will ever be interested as a user14:46
sbalukoffAn array of virtual appliances is another.14:46
enikanorovsamuelbercovici is right about hypervisor14:46
sbalukoffhaproxy on the neutron controller is another.14:46
mesterysbalukoff: OK, just wanted to make sure. :)14:47
rm_worksamuelbercovici: you are not an average user, apparently <_<14:47
sbalukoffsamuelbercovici: Our users often care about colocation / apolocation (or affininty / anti-affinity)14:47
samuelbercoviciI might wish to place some shceuling information such as affinity and falvor to assist in how it gets provisioned14:47
enikanorovsamuelbercovici: right, flavors are better in addressing that14:48
sballe_sbalukoff, +114:48
german_scheduling is another nig issue14:48
sbalukoffflavors still have a place here.14:48
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samuelbercovicisbalukoff: why is this requirement different than
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rm_workmaybe all of the tens of thousands of users of CLB / ELB are the weird ones, expecting to actually deal with a "loadbalancer" when they use a load balancing service? <_<14:49
sbalukoffsamuelbercovici: I will have to read through that blueprint before I can answer that.14:49
sbalukoffrm_work: Haha!14:49
sballe_rm_work, Our users deal with LB also in our LBaaS service. :-)14:49
enikanorovrm_work: that's about the term. elb API is very limited14:49
samuelbercovicialso the ELB loadbalancer as far as iknow == sbalukoff:vip14:50
enikanorovsamuelbercovici: correct14:50
rm_worksballe_: erk, sorry to exclude you :P i don't know your acronum14:50
blogani don't think the term LB is at issue here14:50
bloganits the multiple VIPs14:50
bloganam i wrong here?14:50
samuelbercoviciwhich is different than the Rackspace definition of loadbalancer14:50
enikanorovblogan: it's multiple listeners14:50
bloganenikanorov: then i am confused14:50
sbalukoffI sort of started discussion of what "load balancer" should mean on the mailing list.14:51
bloganenikanorov: listener representing a TCP/UDP port?14:51
sbalukoffI doubt we're going to come to consensus in this IRC meeting.14:51
sbalukoffMaybe people use use ML discussion?14:51
samuelbercoviciwell, can we do this at the confference F2F, this will be real usefull to be able to also draw stuff14:51
enikanorovblogan: tcp/upd port/protocol/ssl14:51
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enikanorovblogan: no multiple IP per loadbalancer in ELB14:51
bloganenikanorov: what does ELB have to do with it?14:52
sbalukoffJust to revisit this, though: The idea of having a "logical construct load balanacer virtual appliance thingy" is central to the compromise blogan and I were talking about.14:52
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sballe_samuelbercovici, +1. We have tried to this on the IRC and on the ML and never really got consensus. A face to face meetign will help to get this discussed and nailed down14:52
samuelbercoviciblogan: weel ELB was used to reflect the use of the term loadbalncer14:52
aburaschiIs this something we could summarize in a pros/cons list? (the appliance/nfv thing)...14:52
sbalukoffBetween our API proposals.14:52
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rm_workit appears that they return a call-named structure, containing just a DNS name, but the term LoadBalancer is stamped ALL over their docs14:53
samuelbercoviciso when can everyone interested meet if not on LBaaS session?14:53
rm_worknothing about a VIP14:53
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enikanorovi'm proposing to have a meeting on wednesday14:53
enikanorovin mirantis private room14:53
jorgemmestery: Can we identify the issues with compromised API proposal?14:53
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enikanorovi need to coordinate with my team to find out the time14:53
ptoohillI know this is a bit off of which ever topic is being discussed at the moment. But how do these talks fit in if ejecting advanced services is still up for discussions. Should i not be worrying about that at this point?14:53
mesteryjorgem: Yes, that was the idea. We have 7 minutes. :)14:54
blogancan we get a detailed description of the objections to this on the ML? I'd really like to understand it so I can make an informed decision, I'm definitely missing something14:54
rm_workI'm proposing we have a meeting Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday and continue until we actually decide something we agree on <_<14:54
sballe_enikanorov, sounds good. The Neutron pod migth be available too14:54
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mesteryrm_work: Should we start on Sunday perhaps?14:54
sbalukoffHeh! I haven't nailed down everything on my summit agenda yet. enikanorov: Can you send out info on this to the mailing list?14:54
* mestery runs and hides. :)14:54
rm_workmestery: if you all want to meet for a beer, I get in sunday night :P14:54
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sballe_mestery, Unfortunately I will first be there Monday14:54
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sbalukoffmestery: I could do Sunday evening.14:54
rm_workmestery: point us to a good pub :)14:54
enikanorovsbalukoff: sure14:54
* mestery takes note to find a place for Sunday evening.14:55
enikanorovi think that will be personal invites14:55
german_I get there Monday as well14:55
german_not very interested in keynotes :-)14:55
bloganenikanorov: can you send an email on the ML with a detailed objection to multiple listeners?14:55
mesterygerman_: :P14:55
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bloganenikanorov: speak to me like im a child, i dont care, i just want to understand it14:55
samuelbercoviciblogan: no one objects to multiple listeners14:55
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sballe_I am just two hours away so I should be in Atlanta aaround 9am on Monday14:55
enikanorovblogan: i have no objection on multiple listeners, as they are descried in BBG API proposal14:55
sbalukoffOh! Can we get everyone to please fill out samuel's survey before the summit?14:56
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bloganenikanorov: then what ever the object you have is14:56
samuelbercoviciblogan: the objections is to multiple different IPs (for VIPs) under a loadbalancer object14:56
sbalukoffAnd samuel: Can you share the preliminary data from the survey?14:56
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bloganenikanorov: and i realize it is not just you, but you understand the general objection14:56
sbalukoff(at the summit)14:56
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enikanorovblogan: yes, samuelbercovici is correct about what people (including me) object  to14:56
samuelbercovicipassword lbaas14:56
blogansamuelbercovici: is the object just because not all load balancing implementations allow multipel VIPs?14:57
sbalukoffenikanorov: I would love to see mailing list discussion about multiple l2 ports on a load balancer object.14:57
rm_worksamuelbercovici / sbalukoff: my survey answers would probably be verbatim what jorge put down, but I guess I can do it anyway if we'll be compiling metrics based on overall responses <_<14:57
enikanorovsbalukoff: ok sure14:57
sbalukoffrm_work: It's not anonymous, so it doesn't hurt to have many people from the same organization filling out the survey.14:58
aburaschiwow, quite a complete survey :)14:58
samuelbercoviciblogan: noin my opinion it violates the freedome of the backend to properly and efficiently scheule14:58
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* mestery notes there is only 2 minutes left in the meeting.14:58
sbalukoffaburaschi: Yes! Please fill it out. :D14:58
samuelbercoviciblogan:if the reason is for affinity, than it should have the right "hints" to say so and not using an hierarhical cunstruct14:58
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mesteryLets use the etherpad enikanorov posted for discussions next week during the LBaaS sessions.14:58
sbalukoffOk, anything left unresolved about the meeting agenda for next week should happen on the mailing list.14:58
mesteryAgreed sbalukoff.14:59
sbalukoffOr etherpad.14:59
blogansamuelbercovici: is it the scheduling of neutron ports?14:59
vjaysamuelbercovici: +114:59
ptoohillone note, friends from China cant seem to use google docs. There was a complaint in the ML about it. so we should keep that in mind for future14:59
sballe_we'll need meetings Mon, Tues, Wed, etc... Do we schedule these ad-hoc once we get there?14:59
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samuelbercoviciblogan: lest meet after this on openstack-neutron to discuss further14:59
rm_worksbalukoff: who knows, maybe I will disagree with jorgem on something on the survey… but since it's not anonymous, he might demote me if I disagree :P14:59
sbalukoffptoohill Good to know!14:59
jorgemrm_work: yes! lol15:00
blogansamuelbercovici: sounds good to me15:00
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jorgemalright to the ML we come!15:00
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enikanorovok folks, let's wrap up15:00
mesteryThanks everyone!15:00
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sbalukoffHaha! Thanks y'all!15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:00
mesteryLooking forward to seeing everyone F2F next week!15:00
aburaschiHave a good day, thanks.15:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu May  8 15:00:43 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:00
eglynn#startmeeting ceilometer15:00
nealph /msg NickServ identify FN49Ford15:00
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openstackMinutes (text):
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openstackMeeting started Thu May  8 15:00:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eglynn. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
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eglynnwho's all around for the ceilo meeting?15:01
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eglynncool, so not everyone already on the midnight train to Georgia ;)15:02
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ildikoveglynn: LOL :)15:02
eglynn#topic summit finalization15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "summit finalization (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:02
eglynnso we had a bit of horse-trading earlier this week around the design track scheduling15:02
eglynn(to avoid conflicts with other tracks etc.)15:03
eglynnso if you haven't checked the schedule recently, please give it another look ...15:03
llu-laptopis up-to-date?15:03
eglynnllu-laptop: yeah good point15:04
eglynnanyone who's leading a session, pls prepare an etherpad in advance15:04
eglynnand link it to the master list llu-laptop mentions above15:04
gordcllu-laptop: i've updated the wiki to reflect latest scheduleing change15:04
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ildikovsure, will do, thanks for reminding15:04
eglynngordc: thanks much!15:04
nsajeWill do15:05
gordceglynn: np15:05
llu-laptopgordc: thx15:05
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eglynnBTW the ceilometer pod will apparently be available from the Monday15:05
DinaBelovaheh, cool)15:05
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eglynn... not sure of the exact location of the pod, but the signage should be adequate ;)15:06
eglynnwe'll be gathering there at 2pm on the Monday to talk about TSDaaS etc.15:06
ildikoveglynn: you can never be sure ;)15:06
eglynnildikov: ... yeah I'm bringing my Garmin eTrex just in case ;)15:07
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eglynnwe should also aim to use the pod space for any ad-hoc discussions that come up during the week15:07
eglynn... kinda like a focal point or whatever15:07
ildikoveglynn: cool, I will follow you then ;)15:08
nealph eglynn: I like that idea...a natural spot to continue discussions "offline"15:08
eglynncool ... I think the pod idea is an experiment for this summit, seems like a good idea to me15:09
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ildikoveglynn: +115:09
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eglynnnot sure if there's anything else to discuss about summit?15:09
DinaBelovaeglynn, possibly it'll be nice to prepare some list of topics? for the pod discussions...15:09
dhellmannyeah, the pods take the place of the unconference15:09
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eglynnDinaBelova: ... yeah I think the scheduling will be fast and loose, first come first served15:10
DinaBelovaas there were lots of small topics this and last week15:10
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eglynnDinaBelova: ... maybe just use the fipchart/WB to manage a rough emergent schedule15:11
dhellmanneglynn: do you know if we're sharing our pod with another team? I know some are, but I don't know how they are grouped.15:11
eglynndhellmann: good question, I heard nova+glance are sharing so likely we'll be too15:12
eglynndhellmann: I'll check ... if I had to guess, my money would be on us sharing with heat15:12
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dhellmannthat would make sense15:13
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eglynncool enough, I guess we can move on15:14
jd__I hope we share with tempest15:14
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ildikovjd__: and then with infra too15:14
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eglynnjd__: yeah that would be good, osmosis by proximity ;)15:15
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* jd__ auto-high-five himself for this joke15:15
eglynnLOL :)15:15
ildikovLOL :)15:15
eglynn#topic BP review process15:15
*** openstack changes topic to "BP review process (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:15
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eglynnI took an action in our previous meeting to bring a proposal to the table on that15:15
eglynnso here goes ...15:16
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eglynn... the idea is mainly to follow the nova lead on this, but with some tweaks15:16
eglynnfirst I don't think there's a need to have a separate team responsible for BP-review and code-review15:16
eglynnso the ceilo-drivers team should remain equivalent to the ceilo-core team IMO15:17
eglynn(whereas for nova AFAICS, only a subset of the cores ...15:17
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eglynn... are also drivers:15:17
eglynn )15:17
eglynnthat distinction doesn't seem necessary to me15:18
ildikovI think currently we can handle it and later we can decide to have a separate team for this, if needed15:18
eglynnyeap ... on a project of the size of ceilo, one team of reviewers is plenty15:18
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eglynnk, that's uncontroversial so15:19
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eglynnsecond, I hacked out a draft BP template15:19
eglynnbased on nova but customized for ceilo-specifics15:19
eglynn... actually, easier to read as exported txt15:19
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eglynnas mentioned on the chanell earlier ...15:20
eglynnTL;DR: the explicit diffs WRT the nova original are ...
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eglynn... dunno if there's anything contraversial in that15:22
eglynn... it's mainly motherhood and applepie ;)15:22
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eglynnother than maybe: The ceilometer project is explicitly not interested in "code drops", ...15:23
ildikoveglynn: I'm not sure we should drop unit/scenario tests and focus only on tempest15:23
ildikoveglynn: but this topic can be further discussed on the testing session in ATL15:23
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eglynnildikov: cool ... feel free to hack away on that etherpad with your thoughts15:23
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_nadya_ildikov: absolutely. tempest is not for unit testing15:24
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ildikoveglynn: cool, I will do that before the session and include this etherpad in the session agenda too15:24
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eglynn_nadya_: so the point in the BP template is that unit/scenario test coverage is assumed, so don't bother telling us about it15:25
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ildikoveglynn: coverage is not enough15:25
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eglynn_nadya_: ... whereas we *really* want to know about your plan tempest coverage! :)15:25
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ildikoveglynn: we need more negative tests for instance, than we have now15:25
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_nadya_eglynn: we will discuss it on topic about tempest :)15:26
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ildikoveglynn: but we can move on now and discuss it on the summit, we have several topics for today15:27
eglynnanyhoo the idea would be that any new BPs for Juno would be proposed to gerrit, along the lines of the nova-specs project ...15:27
eglynnanyone know what's required to set up a new repo under ?15:28
ildikoveglynn: so this means that the currently proposed ones should be rewritten according to the template, right?15:28
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llu-laptopeglynn: just want to ask the same question about ceilometer-specs15:28
eglynnildikov: ... yes anything targetted at Juno should go thru the same process15:28
ildikoveglynn: do we have a deadline for this?15:28
gordcildikov: good way to filter out which of the current bps are actually active.15:28
dhellmanneglynn: I can help with the repo setup15:29
eglynndhellmann: excellent! ... I was hoping someone would step up :)15:29
DinaBelovaI guess it15:29
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DinaBelovawill be needed to make change to the infra-config15:29
dhellmanneglynn: if you give me a github repo that you want imported, I can shepherd the change through15:29
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nealphgordc: +115:29
ildikovgordc: sure, I agree, I just need to know that until when, I should rewrite my owns :)15:29
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eglynndhellmann: cool, will do, thank you sir!15:30
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DinaBelovaeglynn, dhellmann- smth like this?
eglynn... so all this is just a proposal that I'm seeking buy-in on from the project team15:30
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eglynn... does anyone have any reservations about the idea?15:30
gordcnone from me.15:31
llu-laptopI think we also need to update the CM section around
eglynngordc: cool :)15:31
eglynnllu-laptop: agreed15:31
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ildikovI like the idea now15:32
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ildikovI will less like it during the refactor process and after that I will like it again ;)15:32
eglynnildikov: LOL :) ... think of it an "investment"15:32
dhellmannDinaBelova: yes15:32
eglynn(hard to think of word-smithing as productive work, I know ...)15:33
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eglynnso once we've the repo and gerrit project set up, I guess we could review the BP template on gerrit15:33
eglynn(using the content in the etherpad linked above as the initial version)15:33
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DinaBelovaeglynn, cool)15:34
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eglynnk, sounds like no need to put all that new process overhead to a vote15:34
ildikoveglynn: cool, I guess we will have more BP after the summit, than before, so it is ok to use that as an initial15:34
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ildikoveglynn: and also prolly it will not change much15:35
eglynnyeap agreed15:35
eglynnk, best move on I guess?15:35
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eglynn#topic tempest status15:35
*** openstack changes topic to "tempest status (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:35
_nadya_we've started working on scenario tests15:36
eglynn_nadya_: BTW thanks for the tempest input in ildikov's test strategy etherpad for summit15:37
_nadya_yep, it's just a draft and any other inputs are very welcome15:38
_nadya_JFYI #link
eglynnare we overloading the term "scenario test" a bit here?15:38
eglynn... but I guess that's the usual Tempest terminology15:38
_nadya_and that's all from me. btw, does anyone know the status of ubuntu14 on gating?15:39
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ildikov_nadya_: thanks, my notebook is half dead, so I got gibi's for the time of the meeting... :S15:39
_nadya_eglynn: afaik "scenario" is tempest term for more compex tests15:39
eglynn_nadya_: haven't heard anything, but I intended to twist some infra arms in ATL next week15:39
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eglynn_nadya_: cool, makes sense ... just contrasting with our mongo/sqla/hbase/db2 scenario tests in the ceil code-tree15:40
_nadya_eglynn: yep, it's great opportunity15:40
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eglynncool, I guess we can move on?15:41
eglynn#topic Monitoring-as-a-Service15:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Monitoring-as-a-Service (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:41
eglynnraised by aviau on the ML15:41
aviauHello everyone!15:41
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aviauI have recently submitted a blueprint to Ceilometer and I wanted to get in touch with you. We are looking for reactions from the Ceilometer team for a possible Monitoring service.15:41
eglynnaviau: hey! :)15:41
eglynnaviau pity you're not going to be in ATL next week to discuss face-to-face15:42
ildikovaviau: hi15:42
eglynnaviau: ... but the floor is your's for now :)15:42
aviaueglynn, I will be available for the next summit.15:42
eglynnaviau: cool ... how do you want to move the discussoin forward in the meantime?15:42
eglynnaviau: ... a recurring topic in this meeting maybe?15:42
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aviaueglynn, This would be a great idea.15:43
eglynnaviau: cool, let's aim to that starting the week after summit15:43
eglynn(no meeting next week)15:43
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aviaueglynn, Good, I will hold discussions until that meeting.15:44
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eglynnaviau: cool15:44
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eglynnBTW we do need to be cognizant of the perception of "misson creep"15:44
eglynn... as expressed say in the debate around the project mission statement15:44
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eglynnbut overall I think we shouldn't be too afraid to explore this direction15:45
aviauWhat is your take on this?15:45
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eglynnaviau: my gut feeling is "big tent" :)15:46
aviauHopefully that will work. I think that Monitoring is closely related to Metering.15:46
ildikoveglynn: do you mean to explore the monitoring direction?15:46
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gordcaviau: i would think your bp falls under the mission statment we had since grizzly (whether any work was done on it or not)15:47
ildikovaviau: do you plan to implement a monitoring tool-like service or it is focusing more on events in OpenStack?15:47
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eglynnildikov: yes, I think we should at least be open to that possibility15:47
aviauildikov, For how, the focus is not on the events in OpenStack.15:47
aviauHowever, this is still a blueprint. Now work has been done yet and we hope to receive feedback.15:48
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ildikovaviau: I meant that monitoring means to ping the hosts/guests to check availability or processing more kinds of events coming from the other services than we deal with currently?15:49
gordcaviau: seems like it's a meld of polling agents and events -- i'll make comments to your bp.15:49
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eglynnseem like this BP would be a good guinea pig for the BP review process?15:49
ildikoveglynn: this seems to be an excellent candidate :)15:50
aviauildikov, ping the host/guests to check availability. It would be great if we supported Nagios standards.15:50
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aviauI will read up on the review process, thanks.15:51
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eglynnaviau: ... ^^^ discussed above (mechanics not yet in place)15:51
_nadya_aviau: I'm not nagios expert but can use Nagios+Ceilo together?15:51
ildikovaviau: do we plan to do this, when there are n+1 monitoring tools that can do that?15:51
_nadya_aviau: I mean not to create a Nagios-like-tool but use Nagios itself?15:52
aviauYou can use nagios to monitor OpenStack.15:52
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_nadya_aviau: so why it may be useful to create one more Nagios inside Ceilo?15:53
_nadya_aviau: I'm just asking, to understand better :)15:53
ildikovaviau: and what would MaaS do then?15:53
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eglynn... sounds like there's some scoping needed here, to avoid the perception of wheel-reinvention15:54
aviauhowever, Ceilometer currently won't give you all the information you need about your guests. Ceilometer does not know if my web service is up, for example.15:54
aviaueglynn, Absolutely! Work has to be done on possible use cases.15:54
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ildikovaviau: I'm not sure Ceilometer should check web services15:55
eglynnaviau: ... so we need a justification for why ceilo should be concerned about that, as opposed to just using existing tooling15:55
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eglynnaviau: (not necessarily needed right now, but food for thought and future discussoin)15:55
eglynn... k, let's continue the discussion on gerrit?15:56
eglynn(... once the git/gerrit incantations have been incanted)15:56
eglynn#topic Issues raised by, how to preserve per disk metrics, per net interface metrics?15:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Issues raised by, how to preserve per disk metrics, per net interface metrics? (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:56
ildikovyep, we are running out of time here15:56
eglynnprad__: defer that discussion ^^^ to ATL?15:57
ildikovwill we have a chance to discuss this on the summit?15:57
prad__eglynn: sure i’m cool with that15:57
_nadya_mm :)15:57
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eglynnprad__: one for the pod methinks15:57
prad__probably a good topic for pod15:58
DinaBelovaprad__ +115:58
_nadya_I will try to summarize all my thoughts too15:58
ildikoveglynn, prad__: +115:58
llu-laptop+1 for pod15:58
_nadya_*somewhere, in cr maybe15:58
prad__thx _nadya_15:58
prad__does it make sense to have an etherpad for pod with topics to discuss15:59
eglynnTBH the sample-datapoints-in-resource-metadata idea will be problematic in the context of TSDaaS15:59
eglynn... but let's punt to the pod15:59
ildikovprad__: I just wanted to ask you to prepare one :)15:59
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prad__sure i can do that15:59
eglynn30 second warning ;)15:59
ildikovprad__: cool, thanks15:59
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_nadya_as for me it's related to data-model topic too15:59
eglynn_nadya_: yeap15:59
eglynn#topic open discussion15:59
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:59
eglynnup against the shot-clock16:00
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eglynnanything else maybe we bring to the project channel?16:00
eglynnthanks as always folks for a productive meeting!16:01
eglynn#endmeeting ceilometer16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:01
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openstackMeeting ended Thu May  8 16:01:07 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:01
openstackMinutes (text):
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_nadya_have a nice summit, folks!16:01
ildikovthanks everyone16:01
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ildikov_nadya_: thanks :( :)16:01
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mikalNova meering in one minute!20:58
openstackdevoid: Error: "!" is not a valid command.20:58
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devoidoops :-(20:59
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mikalmriedem: Hi!21:00
mikalOk, so let's do this thing21:00
mikal#startmeeting nova21:01
mikal#topic Introduction21:01
openstackMeeting started Thu May  8 21:01:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mikal. Information about MeetBot at
mikalSo, thanks everyone for coming to the first nova meeting for Juno. I think we have a lot of exciting work to do this cycle, so I’m pretty pumped about the opportunities before us. Please be gentle while I learn to drive meetbot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:01
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mikalIts weird to me having one of these not at 7am21:01
mikalThat said, onto more specific things…21:02
mikal#topic Upcoming summit21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Upcoming summit (Meeting topic: nova)"21:02
mikalThe obvious thing for us to be prepping for is the summit next week. The nova track is over three days, and has 20 something sessions.21:02
mikaldanpb kindly pre-created all the session etherpads for us, which are at
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mikalFor people with accepted sessions:21:02
mikal - if you have associated blueprints, please make sure your on top of the feedback on your spec review before the session21:02
mikal - if your session doesn’t have any blueprints associated with it, should it?21:02
mikal - please have an outline of what you want to discuss in your ether pad before the session (preferably at least the _day_ before)21:02
mikalWhat other things do we need to do to prepare for the summit?21:02
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devoidAny nova-devs out there that are also operators, please contribute to the operators in design summit etherpad21:04
devoid… digging up link...21:04
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mikalYep, there's also a nova operators session that needs fleshing out21:04
mikalI think the ether pad for that session would be the right place for people to contribute21:04
mriedemcan i put my question about dropping null instance uuid records on the nova operators session? :)21:04
mikaldevoid: I think we're talking about the same session?21:04
mikalmriedem: that's a really good idea21:04
devoidmikal: there is alos an effort to have operators in every design session.21:05
mikaldevoid: yep, the nova session is at
mikaldevoid: so if people have things that are nova specific I'd prefer they go there21:05
mriedemcool, thanks21:05
mikalInstead of trying to dig the nova bits out of another etherpad on the fly21:05
devoidmriedem: yes21:05
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mriedemoh shazbot i'll be heading to the airport21:06
mikalI know that VW was also going to take a look at that session, but probabky not until later this week21:06
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mriedemmaybe jaypipes can be my proxy :)21:06
mikalmriedem: we could ask for you? If you remind us in the etherpad?21:06
jogodevoid: has anyone given these ops a crash course on how the design summit works, to maximize there usefulness?21:06
devoidmriedem: yea, dev/ops summit timing could have been better21:06
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devoidmriedem: just rescheduled my flights21:06
mikaljogo: not that I am aware of, this is an experiement21:06
devoidjogo: I can only speak for myself in this respect.21:06
jaypipesmriedem: sure thing.21:06
jogobecause if this is there first design summit, a crash course would really help21:07
devoidjogo: Tom's email was clear though: " Though, please note that you should do some preparation, like reading the associated blueprint, in order to avoid asking "beginners" questions ... developers have very limited time to get a lot done!"21:07
mikaljogo: we can do a quick "what to expect" at the start of each day or somethign if that would help21:07
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jaypipesjogo: Tom and Tim have been discussing the summit format and expectations with the operators, yes.21:07
mikalI think that's also my job is to reign in tangents when they happen21:07
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devoidjogo, mikal, I will try to convey any dev concerns you have during the monday ops meetings.21:08
jogoahh good, thanks21:08
mikalIs there anything else for the summit?21:08
mikalI just want to reinforce that good prep this week means we're all a little less busy next week21:08
devoidI have a minor request for libvirt dev time, like 15 minutes to help me w/ my sheepdog blueprint21:08
devoidnot sure if that belongs in errata21:08
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mikaldevoid: can we table that until open discssion at the end?21:09
devoidmikal: yes, cool21:09
mikalAlthough, I should point out there will be a nova "pod" in the dev lounge21:09
mikalSo people can hang out as a group in breaks etc21:09
mikalNot sure if it has 200 seats though...21:09
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mikalSo nothing else about the summit?21:10
mikal#action devoid to make sure that ops have been briefed on how the design summits work21:10
mikal#topic bugs21:10
mikalAnother thing I’d like to be tracking in these meetings is what high priority bugs people think we need to be looking at, or which have fixes out there waiting for a code review. Is there anything like that at the moment?21:10
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:10
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jogomikal: I don't have a bug number but I have seen a bunch of quota issues being filed recently21:11
mikaljogo: oh, interesting21:11
jaypipesmikal: there's a bug triage day scheduled for th emonday after the summit...21:11
mikaljogo: new bugs, or just people with a new use case?21:11
tjonesmikal: i'd like to chat with you at the summit to talk about bugs21:11
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mikaljaypipes: project wide you mean?21:11
mikaltjones: I'd love that21:11
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mikal#action tjones and mikal to chat about bug triage at summit21:12
jaypipesmikal: yes, I believe so. just lettin gyou know... SergeyLukjanov was organizing.21:12
jogomikal: new bugs21:12
mikaljaypipes: its news to me, but I think it sounds like a good idea21:12
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mikaljogo: hmmm, when you get some numbers want to send them my way?21:12
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1284424 in nova "nova quota statistics can be incorrect" [High,Confirmed]21:12
mikaljogo: or alternatively, is anyone looking at them already?21:13
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1297590 in nova "Quota leakage issue " [Undecided,New]21:13
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mriedemthere are a few in progress patches for some quotas bugs i think21:13
mikal#action Quota bugs: 1284424 129759021:13
mriedemi usually associate comstud with quotas :)21:13
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1301532 in ossa "Quotas can be exceeded by making highly parallel requests" [Undecided,Won't fix]21:13
mikalmriedem: heh, I think comstuf has escaped to ironic...21:13
mikalcomstud even21:14
mikal#action Quota bugs: 130153221:14
mriedemthere was also a db api race with getting quota values that i saw this weekend, but it's and old issue21:14
mikalThere are also a _lot_ of live migration bugs open at the moment, but most of them have been around a while21:14
mriedemmaybe we start tagging them?21:14
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mikalWe just need someone to be systematic about fixing them all21:14
jogomikal: a hard thing with live migration is no gating on it21:14
mikaljogo: agreed21:14
jogomriedem: ++ to tagging em21:14
johnthetubaguymikal: i did create a tag about that, I had planned to take a look21:15
mikaljogo: and the number of storage / hypervisor permutations21:15
mikaljohnthetubaguy: for quota or live migration?21:15
mriedemi think mtreinish and the QA boyz were looking at multi-node testing in the gate for juno?21:15
devoidmikal: yes, tons of ways to do it21:15
johnthetubaguymikal: live-migrate, maybe it was unofficial at the time21:15
mikaljohnthetubaguy: oh, interesting. I wrote up a summary a month or so but haven't done anything else with it21:15
johnthetubaguymikal: kinda working through some of those issues with live-migrate, kinda half way through the refactor21:16
mikaljohnthetubaguy: but I'd be interested in sharing state with anyone wanting to take a look at them21:16
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johnthetubaguymikal: but I think johannes was going to take a look21:16
mikaljohnthetubaguy: I'm scared of changing that stuff without fixing the gating issue21:16
dansmithI made a change recently,21:16
mikalI'd even settle for third party CI on it until we can get something in the gate21:16
dansmithand Hans Lindgren manually tested my change for me in a real environment :)21:16
johnthetubaguymikal: yeah, its getting the two machine setup21:16
dansmithit sucked, but I was *really* happy to have someone validate it :)21:16
mikalActually a multinode devstack isn't too bad21:17
johnthetubaguydansmith: yeah, thats all I have been doing21:17
dansmithI think it's reserving pairs in nodepool21:17
mikalThat's how I tested that config drive live migration problem21:17
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johnthetubaguymikal: yeah I have that on my laptop, but its just getting in gate is messier21:17
sdaguemikal: there is some basic hooks in nodepool now for multi node allocation21:17
mikalI am _sure_ I saw a design summit session on multi node gating21:17
johnthetubaguysdague: awesome news21:17
mikalIf there is one, we should send some people to beg21:17
sdaguebut it needs some real work to pull it all together21:17
sdaguemikal: I don't think we landed a multi node session21:18
mikalsdague: is someone doing that work, or does it need a body?21:18
clarkbsdague: mikal: and in theory nothing prevents doing it now. You just might need to setup openvpn and so on21:18
sdagueright now it needs a body21:18
comstudmikal: I haven't fully escaped21:18
mikalsdague: you could probably trick mattoliverau into taking a look21:18
mikalsdague: he's been playing with the nodepool code a lot already21:18
sdaguemikal: will he be in atlanta?21:19
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mikalDefinitely for juno I'd like to see some form of gating on live migration21:19
mikalsdague: yes21:19
mikalEven if it doesn't have 100% coverage21:19
devoidout of curiosity, what kind of live-migration config?21:19
mikalAnything is better than what we have now21:19
sdaguemikal: ok, make sure we find each other. I'll walk him through current thinking if he can dive on it early21:19
mikalsdague: ok21:19
mikal#action mikal to introduce mattoliverau to sdague for multi node dev stack in gate21:20
mikaldevoid: for gating you mean?21:20
devoidmikal: yea, lots of ways to do it.21:20
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devoidalso not clear if certain ways functionally work (e.g. shared storage w/ ceph, gluster, etc.)21:21
mikaldevoid: I think I'd like to see the tests refactored in a way where any new storage driver ends up requiring a test for it21:21
devoidmikal: sounds good to me.21:21
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mikaldevoid: ie, you get a tempest fail if you add a storage driver which doesn't work21:21
mikalI don't 100% know what that looks like, but I think its a good goal21:21
mikalSo, any other bugs we should be tracking at the moment?21:22
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mikal#topic Blueprints21:22
mikalKeystone V3 Support:
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: nova)"21:22
mikalmriedem: this was you right?21:22
mriedemmikal: yeah21:23
mriedemso was wondering if anyone had heard of any progress there,21:23
mriedemor plans to21:23
mriedemthere are several patches lined up behind keystone v3 support in nova21:23
mriedembut not really sure what that is - besides what i have linked in the agenda21:23
mriedemand we had this
jogomriedem: last I heard there is a keystone BP to document what is in v3 what is needed to upgrade nova etc21:23
devoidmikal: there's a summit meeting on the testing matrix discussion, sounds like a good place for that.21:23
alaskiI have some work I'd like to line up behind it as well21:23
mikalI am sitting next to the keystone PTL this week, I could ask him for his thoughts if you'd like21:24
jogomriedem: ahh yup21:24
mriedemsomeone that works more on keystone was telling me their team sounded willing to help move the code in nova for keystone v3 as long as there were nova cores they could pair up with?21:24
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jogoIMHO we want to be done first21:24
mriedemjogo: yeah21:24
jogobefore anything else lands etc21:24
mikalThat's kind of what happened with the cinder API bump, but we did a poor job of hand holding21:24
mriedemjogo: then probably this
devoidkeystone needs a bunch of doc help, from the operator perspective21:25
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mikaldevoid: probably true, but let's focus on nova here21:25
jogomriedem: agreed21:25
mriedemanyway i guess we start the ball rolling with dolphm and
morganfainbergmriedem, i know dolphm said he was aiming to work on that this week21:26
mikalSo... Is someone talking to keystone people about this alreayd?21:26
mriedemmikal: i'm sort of kind of trying...when i remember21:26
mriedemif bknudson can work on it then i can work with him21:27
mriedemhe sits down the hall21:27
mikalOk, I will ping dolphm about it over coffee tomorrow21:27
melwittI was under the impression that only the clients were blocking adoption of keystone v3 api. sounds like there's more involved21:27
mikalBut it bknudson and mriedem wanna drive it that sounds super good to me21:27
mikalmelwitt: well, I think we're mostly asking for documentation, right21:27
morganfainbergmelwitt, it's a bit more involved making sure everything works as expected, but documentation is the first step that was agreed upon21:28
bknudsonwe discussed assigning a keystone core member to each proj to help with the transition21:28
mikal#action mikal to ping dolphm about keystone v2 to v3 transition (documentation, who will do the nova work)21:28
morganfainbergmelwitt, and the clients are a bit part of it.21:28
morganfainbergbknudson, ++21:28
melwittmikal, morganfainberg: understood21:28
mikalAny other blueprints we should be talking about? I suspect most are blocked on the summit?21:28
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johnthetubaguyeveryone OK with the new process?21:29
jogoI have some concerns actually21:29
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mriedemis nova-specs stagnating?21:29
johnthetubaguyjogo: do fire away21:29
mikaljogo: do tell21:29
jogomainly I think this new process may result in a dramatic cut in the number of BPs we can approve21:30
dansmiththat's good, IMHO21:30
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jogoicehouse had 67 BPs implimented
mikalI don't want to see process for process' sake21:30
mikalBut I do think we're coming up with better thought through designs now21:30
jogoI think the new process is really good and not for processes' sake too though21:30
leifz23 approved right now?21:31
jogojust think we need more eyes on the nova-specs patches21:31
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melwittso far I've liked the process in that it makes it easy to find which bps need to be reviewed and more easily discuss21:31
johnthetubaguyjogo: we do need care, get too picky and we block the good stuff, I agree21:31
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dansmithI also think that we're reflecting code review likelihood through spec review reality, which is better than approving something and never reviewing the code out of lack of interest21:31
jogohmm we did approve 24 so far21:31
jogoso I may be wrong about this21:31
leifzsorry, yesterday's fetch plus my submission.21:32
mikalIt will be interesting to see if this means we have a higher hit rate with bp implementations actually merging21:32
johnthetubaguyyeah, I been surprised, it feels slow, but we don't seem too bad so far.21:32
jogomikal: yeah21:32
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leifzjogo: I share your concern.21:32
mikalSo, a lot are under discussion next week as well21:32
jogoso I we have sped up the rate of approval a bit21:32
jogosince I last looked21:32
mikalSo let's not panic yet, just be conscious it is a lot more work for proposers21:32
johnthetubaguyits not like I am doing too much other than spec reviews these days, or it feels that way, but we need to make sure it increases "good" productivity, which it looks like it could21:32
johnthetubaguyyeah, I kinda think everyone is hitting the template learning curve at once21:33
leifzI'd also be curious to track the amount of devops feedback we get.21:33
johnthetubaguywhich will hopefully get better too21:33
mikalI certainly think it will drive better test coverage and more thought on operational impact21:33
johnthetubaguy(reviews and writers)21:33
johnthetubaguymikal: +121:33
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jogoso I guess my main concern is: we need more eyes on the BPs21:33
mikalleifz: HP and Rackspace both have people actively looking21:33
johnthetubaguyI like how open the review process is now21:33
mikalleifz: I'd like to see a more diverse set of ops though21:33
jogoto help keep the review queue moving21:33
annegentlefrom a docs team perspective it's hard to keep up :) But we need to be.21:33
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yjiang5jogo: possible the spec should have higher review priority than code review?21:34
leifzmikal: people are looking, but how is that translating for coverage?21:34
mikalleifz: define coverage in this context?21:34
leifzmikal: if main purpose is to get feedback early on, it would be good to see that across the board.21:35
leifzmikal: if that is happening great, but hard to tell from my perspective.21:35
mikalSo, people are definitely getting feedback, that's why it feels slow21:35
mikalIf we were rubber stamping, everything would be approved21:35
mikalWe're getting more ops feedback, but not as much a I'd like21:35
* jaypipes agrees with dansmith that fewer approved blueprint specs is actually a good thing...21:35
devoidThere may also be a context issue here. I feel like a lot of the spec reviews are for nits, but few are for overall concept criticism.21:35
dansmiththe nits are important since they're effectively docs,21:36
jogoanyway looks,p,002ccc290001519621:36
devoidWhich is ok because you are trying to be positive. But bad because then you get to patch set 10 before the real critics come out.21:36
jogoBPs without any reviews21:36
dansmithbut I don't think I see people holding back on criticizing the actual content when appropriate21:36
dansmithdevoid: if I get to a spec that is nearly unreadable because of formatting and spelling errors, I'm inclined to ask for it to be cleaned up before I try to grok it21:37
sdaguedevoid: any idea if that's across the board, or for things that people already were generally agreed on, and they are just coming to this process the first time?21:37
* jaypipes has been trying to keep up with reviews on nova-specs... but they do take a significant chunks of time.21:37
dansmithand I think that's reasonable21:37
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jogobetter link:,n,z'21:37
jogobetter link:,n,z21:37
johnthetubaguyjaypipes: +121:37
devoidsdauge: I'm not completely plugged into nova dev so I can't say.21:37
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mikalOk, so this is new. I agree we're not keeping up with specs reviews perfectly, but its also not really terrible.21:38
devoiddansmith: I agree.21:38
mikalSo, I think this is mostly a "don't forget to take a look at specs"21:38
johnthetubaguyjust wanted to confirm... we are approving specs, but then not approving the blueprint till we actually see code go up, at least thats what I am telling people21:38
jogomikal: yup21:38
dansmithjohnthetubaguy: yeah21:38
dansmithjohnthetubaguy: important distinction :)21:38
johnthetubaguydansmith: yeah, it seems to be working well21:38
johnthetubaguyso far21:39
mikalI feel like we should move on unless there's anything else urgent here21:39
jaypipesmikal: just a suggestion, but perhaps we relax the defacto policy of discouraging folks from asking for reviews on the ML -- but only for nova-specs?21:39
johnthetubaguymikal: +1 just wanted to make sure people could vent :)21:39
sdaguejogo: even better link -,n,z21:39
dansmithjaypipes: why?21:39
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mikaljaypipes: what about an etherpad people could highlight things to review in?21:39
dansmithjaypipes: no -1 votes means "please look at my spec" .. why do we need email spam?21:39
mikaljaypipes: less noise on list, but people feel like they're on people's radars21:39
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devoidjaypipes, but how are you supposed to get feedback on your spec?21:40
jaypipesdansmith: just thinking that if we want to encourage operators to weigh in, their natural instinct isn't to follow a Gerrit view.21:40
mikalOh, I see21:40
devoidjaypipes, got it.21:40
mikaljaypipes: pointing out interesting specs on the _operators_ list is a good idea21:40
mikaljaypipes: although I think we need to be careful about the noise level21:41
mriedemjaypipes: mikal: that's why i sent an email to the operators list about some gridlock on my spec21:41
dansmithoh, sure, the rule is only for -dev afaik21:41
johnthetubaguyyeah, that sounds like a cunning plan21:41
mikalmriedem has already done one21:41
devoid+1 to pointing out useful specs to operators.21:41
mikalYeah, let's just not send five a day21:41
jaypipesmriedem: yeah, for a number of specs I've specifically sent emails to some operators to weigh in...21:41
mikal#action remember to send interesting specs to the operators list21:41
devoidoperators could use more traffic frankly :-)21:41
sdaguedevoid: yeh, the operators list is kind of a quiet corner21:41
mikalOk, let's move on unless you guys want to mutinty really badly21:42
jaypipes#action jaypipes make a weekly post to operators list with top 5 or 10 specs for operator input...21:42
mikal#topic Open Discussion21:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:42
mikaldevoid: you had something for here?21:42
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mriedemi think devoid had a blueprint item for his sheepdog image backend bp21:42
devoidmikal, yes wanted someone to look at my bp21:42
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mikalAhhh, ok. As in it needs someone to read it?21:43
devoidyes plz21:43
mikalI'll take a look, but probably not until tomorrow21:43
mikal#action Someone needs to take a look at
devoidalso looking for a libvirt dev to help understand the image and disk management code during the summit.21:43
mikalI think the dev lounge pod is the way to go there21:43
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mriedemcorner padraig if he's there21:44
mikalBut perhaps we can also find someone who can do some mentoring?21:44
devoidi will hold a sign that says "halp, libvirt questions"21:44
mikalOMG, yes21:44
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mikalOr a tshirt21:44
yjiang5I remember if a patch get no review for a long time, it's ok to asking for review on IRC, but what's acceptable time?21:44
mikalI think bribes do work... Just sayin'21:45
sdaguemikal: moar hoodies21:45
devoidmikal, I have openstack troll t-shirts coming. ;-)21:45
mikalyjiang5: it might be a good idea to git blame the files you're touching and then see what sort of times those people hang around on IRC?21:45
mikalI don't tend to answer pings at 3am for instance, it makes my wife angry21:45
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jaypipesyjiang5: no definite answer on that... maybe a couple days? also, sometimes it's easier to just approach folks with a specific question about a comment they had on a review to gently nudge someone to take another look at it :)21:46
yjiang5mikal: I mean how long after the patch get no review, we can ask for review in the IRC?21:46
yjiang5mikal: sorry not clearly expressed.21:46
mikalyjiang5: that's hard... if everyone did that for a patch which had been ignored for a few days, we'd flood IRC21:46
mikalyjiang5: I think it depends on the severity of the bug being fixed21:46
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jaypipesmikal: yes, agreed.21:47
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yjiang5mikal: Just some clean up patch. Not sure it's ok for patch submitted in Jan, 2014.21:47
mikalyjiang5: well, there's lots of people around now, so why not drop it in openstack-nova now?21:47
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mikalyjiang5: i.e. this time of day might be a good time21:48
yjiang5mikal: cool, thanks.21:48
mikalAnything else? Or do people want 12 minutes of their lives back?21:48
mriedemmid cycle meetup21:48
mriedemany news there?21:48
mikalOh yes21:48
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mikalSo... I only got the release dates a day ago21:48
tjonesbora bora21:49
mikalI'm going to try and come up with a plan for that tomorrow, because I want to be able to discuss it at the summit21:49
sdagueyjiang5: also, it's helpful if the bugs these are listed against actually have a priority. I find a lot of the wayward reviews link to a bug in Undefined priority state21:49
mikal#action mikal to come up with a mid cycle meetup plan21:49
oomichiHawaii: +121:49
yjiang5sdague: thanks.21:49
mikalI'd love Hawaii, but we have no offers to host there21:49
leifzI'm up for maui.21:49
mikalTo set expectations, I think its likely to be mid to late July21:49
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tjonesthen how about alaska21:50
mikalAlmost certainly in the continental US21:50
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tjonesseattle :-)21:50
mikalWe need to find a good openstack host company in either of those locations21:50
yjiang5tjones: +121:50
mikalBut yes, I haven't forgotten the mid cycle meetup21:50
mikalI've just lacked needed information21:50
mikalAnything else?21:50
dansmithI think redhat offered raleigh21:51
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mikalYeah, there's been about five location offers IIRC21:51
mriedemand i'm trying to get an offer for MN21:51
mikalWe'll need to come up with an equitable method to pick one21:51
dansmithI'd be up for MN21:51
johnthetubaguya vote?21:51
mriedemnew review process21:51
dansmithso, one thing,21:51
jaypipestjones: I think alaski would like alaska.21:51
mikalYeah, probably a vote and then a waitlist for people who miss out21:51
dansmithUT was annoying because of distance from the airport,21:51
alaskijaypipes: +1 :)21:52
dansmithso it'd be nice to only consider ones that are reasonably close I think21:52
tjonesjaypipes: lol21:52
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mriedemMN would be rochester, but there is an airport21:52
mikaldansmith: yeah, with good bandwidth and reasonable hotel pricing21:52
mriedemconnects from minneapolis21:52
mikaldansmith: so probably not Manhattan21:52
dansmithmriedem: so that means three hops for some people, right?21:52
mriedemwe have hotels coming out of our ass here with the clinic21:52
mriedemdansmith: depends21:52
mriedemthere are some direct flights21:52
mikalmriedem: direct from Canberra?21:52
dansmithmriedem: if I have to go to SFO, then MSP, then rochester, I'm going to be annoyed21:53
sdaguemikal: fwiw, montreal actually worked out really nicely for the neutron / qa meeting.21:53
tjonespalo alot is right by SFO :-)21:53
dansmithmontreal would be good21:53
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mriedemi'm not sure i'm legally allowed in canada...21:53
sdaguewhich isn't continental US, but almost is. And made it simpler for some non US people due to visa issues with US21:53
mikalNo one has offered a Canadian venue IIRC21:53
leifzmikal: give yourself an action to pick a location where dansmith has a nonstop flight.21:53
dansmithtjones: burgers in palo alto are what, $15 each?21:53
beaglesI would suggest St. John's, but people may not want to leave21:53
mikaldansmith: hotels are expensive21:53
beagles(or be able to)21:53
dansmithleifz: nonstop not necessary, but three hops are not in favor :)21:53
mikaldansmith: but I do like that area... I used to live there21:54
tjonesdansmith: depends - you can get even more expensive if you want21:54
sdaguemikal: when we did it there, it was done on mcgill campus, anteaya has details if you like21:54
leifzdansmith: we can't have you grumpy.21:54
mikalOk, so... All points noted. I will come up with a location that makes you all equally unhappy.21:54
tjonesmikal: awesome!21:54
dansmithleifz: I thought you know, I'm never not grumpy21:54
mikalSomewhere in New Zealand perhaps21:54
leifzdansmith: I do.  I'm talking about the worse grumpy.21:54
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mikalStabby grumpy21:54
dansmithleifz: oh, fair21:54
tjonesNZ - that would be great!21:54
mikalOk... So nothing else important right? Just complaining about not having the meetup at Yosemite?21:55
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oomichimay I ask some feedback about v2.1/v3 API on ?21:55
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mikaloomichi: I think people are waiting for the summit session on that?21:56
oomichiok, I got it:)21:56
mikaloomichi: thanks for your patience21:56
jaypipesoomichi: actually, the API meeting is in a couple hours...21:56
tjonesspawn refactor is always happy to have reviews :-)21:56
jaypipesoomichi: and it's on the agenda, IIRC21:56
tjones(had to sneak that in)21:57
dansmithokay, tjones is begging, time to end21:57
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mikaltjones: yeah, I was looking at the first one of those... 60 revisions!21:57
tjonesmikal: :-(21:57
mikalOk, meeting done I think21:57
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mikal#topic Conclusion21:57
mikalThis is my first time running one of these, so please email me any feedback if you think I can improve…21:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Conclusion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:57
openstackMeeting ended Thu May  8 21:57:39 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:57
openstackMinutes (text):
mikalThanks everyone21:58
leifzoff-record tjones: takes leifz spot for overkill.21:58
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tjonesleifz: :-D21:58
dpatersonHi all, is there audio for this meeting?  first timer.21:59
dansmithdpaterson: no21:59
dansmithdpaterson: what you saw is all there is21:59
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dpatersonOkay. I have submitted a blueprint and spec that needs review.21:59
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dansmithdpaterson: the meeting is over, it was the nova meeting, and that's a tempest spec22:00
dansmithdpaterson: I recommend you try #openstack-qa :)22:00
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dpatersonTerribly sorry I was given this room for this time.22:00
sdaguedpaterson: it's should be starting nowish22:01
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sdaguethough we seem to be missing dkranz who said he was going to run it22:01
dpatersonYes that is who I am looking for22:01
sdaguewho else is around for qa meeting?22:01
sdague#startmeeting qa22:02
openstackMeeting started Thu May  8 22:02:09 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sdague. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.22:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"22:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'22:02
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sdaguethere's dkranz22:02
dkranzWho is here today?22:02
dpatersonDavid Paterson22:02
sdaguedkranz: I just kicked it, but feel free to run it now22:03
mlavalledkranz: I am supporting a desployment to one of the data centes at work. Can I give the Neutron update at the start of the meeting, so I can concentrate at work after that?22:03
dkranzsdague: There was something wrong with my connection22:03
dkranzmlavalle: Yes, go ahead22:03
sdague#topic Neutron Testing22:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Neutron Testing (Meeting topic: qa)"22:03
sdaguego mlavalle22:04
mlavalleOf 28 api tests that we are tracking, we h only have 5 more to merge22:04
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mlavallethe rest have merged, so very good progress on that front22:04
mlavalleI would like the core team to help us reviewing the following 3, to see if we can merge them soon:22:05
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sdaguesounds great22:06
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mlavallewe also have 20 minutes of tempest on the Neutron agenda next Thursday at 9 am in the design summit22:06
sdague#action core review eyes needed on 3 neutron reviews22:06
mlavallethis is the etherpad that I put togeteher22:07
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mlavalleIn principle, during Juno we will be pursuing four lines of actions22:07
mlavalle1) increase the number of scenario tests22:07
mlavalle2) fill any gaps that might have been left in api tests22:08
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mlavalle3) support the nova parity subproject22:08
mlavalle4) support other suprojects22:08
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mlavalleplease feel free to review the etherpad and add to it22:08
sdaguesounds good22:08
sdaguemlavalle: anything else?22:08
mlavallethat's all I have22:09
mlavalleI'll be watching the rest of the meeting, but I might have to drop off22:09
sdagueok, back to agenda as it's ordered22:09
sdague#topic Reminder about summit etherpads22:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Reminder about summit etherpads (Meeting topic: qa)"22:09
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sdagueThe list of etherpads is here -
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sdaguenot all have been created yet22:09
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sdaguechmouel's UX one is missing22:10
sdagueboris-42's rally one is missing22:10
masayukigmaybe ?22:10
boris-42sdague ?22:10
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sdagueand maru_afk's functional test one is missing22:11
dkranz_sdague: Please run the  meeting. I keep flaking in and out.22:11
sdagueboris-42: etherpad for rally / tempest summit session hasn't been stubbed yet22:11
sdaguemasayukig: yes22:11
boris-42sdague when is deadline?22:11
sdaguesooner the better22:12
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boris-42sdague ok will do (just finished slides)22:12
sdagueso people can look and provide feedback pre summit22:12
sdagueboris-42: there shouldn't be slides for a design summit session22:12
boris-42sdague just small intro22:12
boris-42sdague i think it's simpler to start from intro no?22:13
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sdagueif you want to link some slides in the etherpad for people to read in advance, that's cool, but there shouldn't be slides in the session22:13
sdaguethat's not what the session is there for22:13
boris-42sdague okay I'll just left slides22:13
boris-42sdague cause I think intro is required22:13
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sdagueit's probably worth putting those out on the list in advance as well, just to further highlight them22:14
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dkranz_boris-42: Yes, please send intro to the list22:14
sdagueI'm going to spend lots of time tomorrow filling out my etherpad22:15
boris-42hehe me too22:15
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boris-42sdague i know it's not super related to the rally & tempest integration22:15
sdagueok. Reminder to everyone else to handle etherpads for the summit22:15
boris-42sdague but I would like to speak about osprofiler & tempest integration22:15
boris-42sdague is it ok?22:16
sdagueboris-42: I'd say try to keep this narrow to begin with, and if there is more time get there22:16
sdaguebut 40 minutes goes fast22:16
boris-42sdague okay it will be last topic22:16
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sdagueand I think we've got some issues on time accounting that we need to make sure we sort out22:16
sdagueok, next topic22:17
dkranz_sdague: We should move on22:17
sdague#topic Proposal to move success response checking to clients (dkranz)22:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Proposal to move success response checking to clients (dkranz) (Meeting topic: qa)"22:17
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sdaguedkranz_: you have the floor22:17
dkranz_sdague: I just wanted to see if any one objected to this proposal that was discussed on the ml22:17
dkranz_or if there were any other comments22:17
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sdagueI think it was generally agreed. I think it's worth writing up as a qa-spec, and we can approve it through that mechanism22:18
dkranz_sdague: I don't really see any downside22:18
dkranz_sdague: ok, I will do that.22:18
sdagueseems big enough to be a spec/blueprint22:18
sdaguevs. just a bug22:18
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dkranz_#action dkranz to create spec for moving response checking to clients22:18
sdagueI think the only details are around multiple allowed success codes22:19
sdagueso make sure to call that out22:19
sdaguejust so we get that right22:19
dkranz_sdague: Right. I wonder how many there actually are.22:19
dkranz_sdague: Not counting those that say any 2xx is ok22:19
dkranz_That's it22:19
sdaguenext topic22:20
sdague#topic Can we turn on voting of ironic jobs (recent creds change broke it)? (adam_g)22:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Can we turn on voting of ironic jobs (recent creds change broke it)? (adam_g) (Meeting topic: qa)"22:20
dkranz_adam_g: That's you22:20
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adam_gcontext: some refactoring merged recently that broke some of the non-voting jobs22:21
adam_gironic, and i believe solum22:21
adam_gi dont think we can really make these voting until the projects have graduated22:21
andreaf_adam_g: there's no solum job on tempest I think22:21
adam_gandreaf_, oh, maybe not a job in the gate but some of the solum tests (at least reported by devkulkarni earlier)22:22
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sdaguesolum is running a ton of out of tree stuff though, so I consider that a different issue22:22
adam_gwe'll be making these ironic jobs voting in the ironic gate soon, not sure how to prevent this from happening other than urging people to pay attention to non-voting jobs22:23
adam_gand /me being more proactive about catching failures during review :)22:23
sdagueadam_g: I think with the # of jobs on a tempest run now, seeing the non voting votes is going to get harder over time22:23
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dkranz_adam_g: I suggest sending a ml message saying that ironic is not gating only because of incubation but is solid.22:24
sdagueany idea if there is a gerrit query that would return those changes?22:24
andreaf_adam_g, sdague: yes it's getting harder, and gate is not very stable (voting and not voting) so it's even harder22:24
andreaf_dkranz_: +1 sounds good22:24
adam_gi just threw up to help me monitor failures22:24
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adam_gs/threw up/put up :)22:25
sdagueit's funnier the first way22:25
dkranz_sdague: Because we have non-voting jobs that have been downgraded due to failures and others that are solid but waiting to get in for other reasons22:25
dkranz_Reviewers just need to know which is which22:25
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andreaf_dkranz_, sdague, adam_g: sortng the jobs and splitting them in sections would help already22:26
andreaf_dkranz_, sdague, adam_g: but even nicer would be to get some stability stat next to the failing job22:26
adam_gi'd be cool if there were a way to categorize both using notes in jenkins comments, based on pass/failure ratio over the last N days/weeks22:27
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sdagueandreaf_: sure, that's in my elastic recheck set of futurues to give us that22:27
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andreaf_or some check that identified new test failures in an unstable job22:27
sdagueok, this is turning more into brainstorm though, so I think we should table to beers somewhere at summit22:27
sdagueis there something actionable beyond sending a heads up to the list?22:28
adam_g+1, tho i wont be there so someone will need to drink mine22:28
dkranz_Really we just need a third tag which says "non-voting but look at a failure before approving"22:28
sdagueadam_g: bummer22:28
sdaguedkranz_: so realistically that feels to me like a "jenkins 2nd vote"22:28
sdaguewhich we'd need a bunch of infra buy in and refactor on22:28
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sdaguebut is kind of interesting22:28
andreaf_sdague: is there a place where we can track such "additional topics to chat about at summit"?22:29
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dkranz_sdague: I don't know how much real work should be done here vs just living with it22:29
sdagueandreaf_: not atm, you have a suggestion?22:29
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sdagueI just assume it will come up over coffee / food / beer all week, and my brain will end up full at the end of it22:29
andreaf_sdague: perhaps another etherpad22:29
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sdaguedkranz_: agreed, lets move on22:30
dkranz_sdague: At past summits we have had "qa meetings"22:30
sdaguedkranz_: well, usually a lunch somewhere22:30
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dkranz_sdague: that too22:30
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sdague#topic Specs Review22:30
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs Review (Meeting topic: qa)"22:30
sdagueok, time for specs that people want to talk about, and get eyes on22:31
sdaguedpaterson: I believe that includes you, right?22:31
andreaf_dpaterson: go first22:31
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andreaf_or I'll start22:31
andreaf_multiauth bp, I think it's ready all comments addressed22:32
andreaf_and keystone v3 jobs also all comments addressed22:32
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sdagueandreaf_: this looks pretty good22:32
andreaf_and I filed a new one today about client manager refactor for which I'd love some feedback22:32
sdagueI'm good on 8129422:33
sdagueI'll look at 81307 in the morning22:33
sdagueandreaf_: any specific items you want to bring up about them?22:33
sdagueor just getting people to look?22:34
andreaf_the latter22:34
sdague#action qa-specs that are probably ready for final approval,
dkranz_andreaf_: I already gave my +2 to 81294 and mtreinish just -1 for syntax issue22:35
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sdague#action qa-spec on client manager refactor needs review
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dkranz_dpaterson: You there?22:35
sdaguemtreinish should be working tomorrow22:35
andreaf_dkranz_: yes I fixed the issue22:35
dpatersonSorry stepped away for a sec22:35
dkranz_dpaterson: You can discuss your spec22:35
sdagueso dkranz_ +2 if you think it still holds and we can nudge him tomorrow for landing22:35
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sdaguedpaterson: so there is a clerical issue here where the patches need to be merged22:36
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dkranz_dpaterson: You should abandon the old patch and resubmit the new one with no dependency22:36
dpatersonBasically I have been working with some QA folks on testing a HA configuration and running into issues with Temepst cleanup22:36
dpatersondkranz: will look into the problem22:37
sdaguedpaterson: one of the concerns I have about this approach is it papers over state corruption issues in the services by just having Tempest clean things up22:37
sdagueI'd much rather get the base services fixed to not be in an inconsistent state22:38
dpatersonI agree22:38
sdaguealso, we really *can't* access the db directly from tempest22:38
sdaguefor both design reasons22:38
sdagueand practical reasons22:38
dpatersonbut before that happens I would like to have a tool to unblock my guys22:38
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dkranz_sdague: I think he is proposing a script, not having tempest do it automatically22:39
sdagueoh, ok, yeh I see that now22:39
dkranz_sdague: There is already a script in the stress dir but it does not do what is needed.22:39
dpatersonMy proposal is just python, not dep on tempest.22:39
sdaguedpaterson: ok sure22:39
dkranz_dpaterson: My concern is with the database cleanup part22:39
sdagueon the db cleanup part, the issue we had before when we had whitebox testing was the schemas change a lot in a release22:40
sdagueso it's basically always breaking22:40
dkranz_dpaterson: Any such database cleanup will be very fragile22:40
sdaguelike *always*22:40
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dpatersonI am open to alternatives but currently they are getting into a state where API calls cannot remove objects.22:40
dpatersonSo somekind of surgery is going to be required22:40
dkranz_dpaterson: I don't doubt that but I'm not sure tempest is the right place for that22:41
sdaguedpaterson: sure, so lets get the blueprint cleaned up so it's passing the docs job just to look at it.22:41
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dkranz_dpaterson: Stuff in tempest has to be kept working22:41
dkranz_dpaterson: And that is hard with code that only runs when things get seriously messed up22:41
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sdagueI'd be worth trying it, if we also required that any cleanup function needed an upstream bug before it could come in so that we'd actually work towards addressing root issues22:42
dkranz_sdague: works for me22:42
dpatersonIt would only execute if cleanup is flagged to do so22:42
sdaguebut we should also be very aware this is probably going to be very fragile22:42
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sdaguedpaterson: I also don't think it should be triggered by tempest. It would just be a helper tool that we keep around that people could run manually if they like22:43
dpatersonit is22:43
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sdaguedpaterson: ok, so if you can respin the spec, will take a look22:43
sdagueare you going to be in atlanta?22:43
dkranz_dpaterson: It is useful because not every one has to figure out the weird db calls22:43
dpatersonSorry not this time,22:44
sdagueI expect the review queues are going to go really quiet next week regardless22:44
sdagueso it might not be till the week after that people get real eyes on this22:44
oomichidpaterson: interesting. In the HA testing, tempest will stop openstack for checking right switching?22:44
dkranz_oomichi: Not sure what you mean22:45
dpatersonI don't quite understand oomichi,22:45
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oomichidpaterson: HA switchs active / standby controller-node as I understand.22:46
dpatersonTempest doesn't do any switches.  The idea is tempest is run and we get a report22:46
dkranz_oomichi: I don't think tempest would know anything about ha, right?22:46
dpatersonThen clean the system up22:46
dpatersonTake down a controller or introduce some other failure22:47
dpatersonand rerun tempest22:47
oomichidpaterson: oh, I see. thanks22:47
dpatersonShould get same test report22:47
sdagueok, great, dpaterson you need anything else on this?22:47
dpatersonnope, thanks22:47
sdagueok, great22:48
sdague#topic Blueprints22:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)"22:48
sdagueany in process blueprints people want to bring up?22:48
sdagueI'm assuming most people are prepping for summit22:49
andreaf_sdague: Just mentioning that we made some good progress on the multi-auth bp with lots of reviews22:49
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sdaguegiven that we only have 10 minutes left, lets jump to critical reviews22:49
dkranz_sdague: Just that is waiting for final approval22:49
sdague#topic Critical Reviews22:49
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sdague - connection verification as part of RemoteClient init22:49
sdaguethat was put in the agenda22:49
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sdaguedkranz_: +A22:50
dkranz_sdague: I think yfried is trying to debug some ssh issues we have seen22:50
dkranz_sdague: thanks22:50
sdagueI'll plug the test and worker summary patch -
sdagueas we lost test summary with the new subunit trace22:51
sdaguethat will also let us see worker balance in jobs22:51
sdaguewhich is kind of useful22:51
sdagueandreaf_: what's the next patch needed for review in the multi-auth stack?22:51
sdagueany other critical reviews people need eyes on?22:52
sdague#topic Open Discussion22:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: qa)"22:52
sdagueok, let's do open discussion22:52
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sdagueandreaf_: I like that 80246 is negative LOC :)22:52
andreaf_sdague: just an etherpad for people to put additional ideas we can discuss at lunch or beer22:52
andreaf_sdague: :D22:53
sdagueandreaf_: great, want to also send that to the mailing list22:53
andreaf_sdague: ok will do22:53
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sdagueanything else from folks?22:53
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sdaguewhen are folks getting to atlanta?22:54
andreaf_7pm on Sunday22:54
dkranz_sdague: Sorry I will miss the dinner. Don't arrive until 8pm22:54
oomichi15:30 Sunday22:54
sdagueI will also miss the dinner, as I've got the TC / board thing that night22:54
sdaguebut my evening schedule is always nuts22:54
dkranz_sdague: Maybe we should have a lunch table on Monday22:54
dkranz_Anyway, should be a busy week :)22:55
sdagueyes, it should be.22:55
sdagueI'm getting in Sat because of board things on Sun, so if anyone happens to be around Sat let me know.22:55
sdagueok, I think that's a wrap folks. See you in ATL22:56
sdagueand there won't be a meeting next week, because of the summit, so see folks back here in 222:56
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openstackMeeting ended Thu May  8 22:56:45 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:56
openstackMinutes (text):
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oomichisee you in the summit :-)22:57
andreaf_see you22:57
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masayukigyeah, see you22:57
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