Tuesday, 2014-06-03

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gongyshserviceVM meeting?05:00
yamahatayes servicevm meeting05:00
yamahatabmelanar is there?05:00
balajiphi team!05:00
ChristianM_How many people usually join this meeting ?05:01
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yamahataonly few05:02
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trinathshas Service VM meeting stated05:03
yamahatawait for bmelande minutes05:03
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yamahataOkay let's start meeting05:04
yamahata#startmeeting servicevm-device-manager05:04
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun  3 05:04:48 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.05:04
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.05:04
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)"05:04
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'servicevm_device_manager'05:04
yamahatathank you for attending servicevm meeting05:05
yamahata#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/servicevm05:05
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yamahata#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM05:05
ChristianM_Could you remind the discussion and conclusion if any of the Atlanta session in Neutron ?05:05
yamahata#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ServiceVM05:05
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s3wongbmelande: Hi05:06
yamahata#topic design summit followup05:06
*** openstack changes topic to "design summit followup (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)"05:06
bmelandeAll: Hi05:06
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yamahatabmelande: hi. The meeting has just started.05:06
bmelandeyamahata: ok05:07
yamahataThe conclusion at Atlanta is that servicevm/device-manager project should be out of Neutron05:07
yamahataSo we will start a new project for separated service05:07
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balajipyamahata: Is it like, ServiceVM should not use Neutron resources?05:08
yamahataunite for starting incubation process and gather/attract contributer.05:08
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yamahatabalajip: Yes, serviceVM will use Neutron.05:08
s3wongand Nova05:09
yamahatalife cycle management of services, VMs should be separated out.05:09
balajipyamahata: ok05:09
yamahataNetwork related part will remain in Neutron.05:09
bmelandeAnd all(?) initial use cases will be for neutron (advanced) services05:09
ChristianM_Currently is there any service which is not neutron related ?05:10
yamahataChristianM_: I'm not aware of such services so far.05:10
gongyshWe need to identify as we go.05:11
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ChristianM_OK. Networking aspect stays in Neutron and life cycle moves out to Nova ?05:11
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yamahatalife cycle management of services/VM is part of servicevm service.05:12
yamahataNot nova.05:12
malini1Is lifecycle -- starting/pausing/stoping VMs not already covred by nova? what is specific to lifecycle management for NFV VMs?05:12
balajipChristianM_:ServiceVM needs both Nova and Neutron as it has to deploy Network services05:12
yamahataNova will be used just to spin up/down VMs05:13
yamahataAs follow-up, I create a draft of incubation-applicatin page05:13
yamahata#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/Incugbation05:13
ChristianM_It looks like there is nova for spin up/down the VM, serviceVM for life cycle mgmt but what is it exactly and then neutron for network connectivity05:13
yamahataI also summarized request for Neutron/other page.05:14
malini1yamahata: using nova to spin up/down VMs -- what is left for life cycle management?05:14
yamahata#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/neutron-and-other-project-items05:14
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gongyshIncugbation -> Incubation?05:15
yamahatamalini1: life cycle management of services. e.g. pooling VMs/services05:15
bmelandemalini1: if, say, you want a pool of standby VMs that are idle by already booted, then maintaining that pool could be part of life cycle managnentm05:15
yamahatagongysh: ouch. will fix05:15
balajipyamahata:Also, we have to define the relation between NFV sub team and ServiceVM team05:15
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s3wongbalajip: agreed. The NFV subteam currently is handing out requirements, and they would have to give us requirements for serviceVM05:16
yamahatabalajip: Yes, tomorrow, there is NFV irc meeting.05:16
ChristianM_balajip: Should the serviceVM be the VM services used for NFV ?05:16
malini1yamahata: ah, pooling. do we anticipate a lot of pooled VMs waiting be deployed?  would it make sense to defer "life cycle management" to a later phase, that is not support pooling initially?05:16
balajipyamahata: Am little concerned that these two sub-groups may do the same tasks.05:17
yamahataSo far I have been challenged if servicevm is not needed.05:17
ChristianM_yamahata: Is needed or is not needed ?05:17
s3wongChristianM_: serviceVM is considered one of the projects needed by NFV: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NFV05:17
balajipChristianM_:Iam assuming05:17
yamahata#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NFV05:17
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yamahataChristianM_: some said servicevm is NOT needed for NFV05:18
yamahataBut I think serviceVM corresponds to VNF manager05:18
balajipChristianM_:IMHO,it is needed and both of them will be very tightly coupled.05:18
ChristianM_This is my assumption also but we need to show how they're complementary05:19
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gongyshVM based NFV is naturally distributed and software defined.05:19
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yamahatagongysh: fixed link05:20
yamahata#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/Incubation05:20
ChristianM_Pool of VM might be important for fault-tolerance in the NFV context05:20
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yamahataBefore detailed discussion, can I raise logistics staff?05:20
yamahataCan you please add your names to incubation page and your bio.05:21
s3wongyamahata: what needs to be included in bio?05:21
yamahata#action everyone add your name/bio to contributor of incubation page05:21
malini1yamahata: sure05:21
yamahatas3wong: section "Project developers qualifications" needs it. very simple bio would be ok.05:22
bmelandeIt looks to me like what is listed so on NFV page is fixes needed in Nova and Neutron.05:22
bmelandeyamahata:Ok will add05:22
s3wongbmelande: needed development (not yet started)05:23
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yamahataRegarding to neutron side, I summarized requirement for neutron in etherpad into matrix.05:23
malini1ChristiamM_: what do you mean by fault tolerance? Like HA for load balancing? That I would consider as single distributor VM passing on the work to the actual handlers05:24
balajipyamahata:sure, Also i think we should make some quick decisions on ETSI - NFV also like should we follow similar nomenclature and as well architecture etc05:24
yamahataI think we can address those items parally.05:24
ChristianM_Malini1: yes05:24
yamahatabalajip: you mean terminology and so on? yes.05:24
balajipyamahata: yes05:25
yamahataI created terminology wiki page. But gerrit would be better.05:25
s3wongbalajip: that sounds like the NFV subgroup issue, right? Should the serviceVM subteam to conform to NFV terminologies, or is it more NFV subteam's problem?05:25
malini1balajip: does rest of neutron adopt ETSI nomenclature? what about OpenDayLight?05:25
yamahata#action yamahata create tacker-specs page05:25
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x250a4d0>05:25
yamahata#action yamahata create tacker-specs repo in stackforge for further discussion on terminology05:26
s3wongmalin1: not us in advanced services, we don't care much about NFV terminology05:26
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yamahata#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/terminology05:26
s3wongmalin1: and so far, there is a project filed by Contextstream and Ericsson on service chaining on ODL, but not sure if they follow NFV terminology05:26
balajips3wong:IMHO, ServiceVM is superset of NFV sub-team05:26
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balajipmalini1:Neutron may not need to adopt ETSI nomenclature, but Service VM must follow ETSI for adoption of NFV based deployments using OpenStack05:27
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s3wongbalajip: well, we will see on Wednesday. So far, the NFV subgroup mission statement seems to point to requirement generation05:28
gongyshsorry, what does  ETSI stand for?05:28
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yamahatagongysh: http://www.etsi.org/technologies-clusters/technologies/nfv05:28
yamahata#link http://www.etsi.org/technologies-clusters/technologies/nfv05:29
ChristianM_gongysh: Europen Telecom Standars Institute05:29
gongyshgot it, thanks05:29
balajipgongysh:European Telecom Standards Institute whose is leading the NFV architecture for deployments05:29
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malini1balajip: ok ETSI nomenclature -- :-) unless the Americas have another nomenclature +105:29
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balajipmalini1:agreed, but if you see for NFV all other projects like ONF, ODL are following ETSI!!05:30
s3wongmalini1: actually Verizon is one of the leaders of this effort in ETSI, so us Americans are contributing there too :-)05:30
yamahataanyway we need to converge terminology between two implementation.05:30
yamahatathough that, we also see NFV terminology05:31
balajipyamahata:agreed, lets define the scope and goal for service VM.05:31
malini1Cool. ETSI +1 stands then. From a requirements standpoint .. what would each of you want and need to plugin your special NFV. what would be minimal useful milestones05:31
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yamahatabalajip: agree with defining scope.05:32
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gongyshfirst, I need a routerVM implemneted.05:32
yamahataI wrote a draft in incubation page.05:32
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balajipyamahata:lets work on consensus for the draft in incubation page and any other updates to it,05:33
yamahataI think, it's consensus that service for life cycle management is included05:33
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gongyshyamahata: the vm pool is a good one05:33
yamahatait is being discussed whether NFV is in its scope or not05:33
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yamahataWhat's the issues to include NFV to its scope?05:34
balajipyamahata:IMHO, it must be there. Comments from the team will be good.05:34
s3wongyamahata: if we want a vm pool, then we need to several changes to Nova / Neutron: (a) should be able to create VM without having a Neutron port, and (b) able to unplug a VM's Neutron port from a Neutron network05:35
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yamahatas3wong: My point is not technical detail. My question is, is there any reason to exclude NFV out of servicevm project?05:36
gongyshs3wong; I guess by a pool of vm, these vm should be spun up already, they just are not in position.05:36
yamahataOr NFV should be included in its scope?05:36
malini1s3wong: today nova lets us launch multiple VMs with the same glance image .. how is VM pool different for NFVs?05:36
bmelandeyamahata: I think serviceVM should support NFV use cases - if not we'll be obsolete05:37
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gongyshbmelande: agreed,  what are left to us if we don't support NFV?05:37
s3wongyamahata: will need to see how NFV subteam is structured on Wednesday meeting. Whether serviceVM should do general purpose work or conforming to be part of NFV task05:37
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bmelandemalini1: pool mgmt = deciding when that spin up/down of VM should happen.05:38
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ChristianM_Agree with bmelande, If we don't support NFV usage models it will be useless very quickly05:38
s3wonggongysh: Nova with Neutron requires a VM to be spawnwith at least one Neutron port, and it has to be plugged into a Network05:38
malini1bmelande: thank you.05:38
s3wonggongysh: worse still, the network you plugged in initially can never be changed during the lifttime of the VM05:38
bmelandes3wong: But until that is supported "dummy" Neutron networks could be used to plugg the VM to05:39
yamahatas3wong: I see. general purose or NFV conformance is big question for our direction05:39
s3wongbmelande: yeah, that's what we talked about during the J-Summit, We would love to avoid this :-)05:39
yamahataI think servicevm project should be super set of NFV use case05:40
gongyshs3wong: that is  a technique issue, with little change , we can create VM without port or something05:40
balajipyamahata:we should adopt ETSI NFV conformance for the success and adoption of our service.05:40
bmelandebalaji: I tend to agree with that.05:40
malini1serviceVMs born for NFV. Assuming other services will be less demanding!05:40
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balajipmalini1:I completely agree with you05:41
yamahatabalajip: lean for NFV conformance05:41
s3wonggongysh: you know, I haven't looked into nova (or probably more specifically, ovs driver) to know for sure. But I just want to reflect on some requirements given by other Neutron services team05:41
ChristianM_balaji: I agree also05:41
yamahataOkay, I'll update draft to include NFV conformance05:41
yamahata#action yamahata update draft to include NFV conformance05:41
yamahataRegarding to separating vif creation and network connection, is there anyone to volunteer to write neutron spec?05:42
s3wongyamahata: I haven't looked into ETSI NFV specs, so they have requirements for lifecycle management of VMs?05:42
balajipAll: good that we are all on the same page w.r.t NFV conformance05:42
s3wongyamahata: I will take a look at that, since I brought it up :-)05:43
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yamahata#action s3wong look into vif creation/network connection05:43
yamahatas3wong: can you also update the page https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/neutron-and-other-project-items ?05:44
yamahatato show that you're working on it05:44
bmelandeyamahata, s3wong: change is probably in Nova rather than Neutron05:44
s3wongyamahata: yes, of course05:44
s3wongbmelande: that's what I expect also05:44
yamahatabmelande: probably.05:44
malini1bmelande: what do you mean by change in Nova? You mean for life vm cycle support?05:45
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bmelandemalini1: I was referring to the vif issue, spinning up VM without any networks05:46
malini1bmelande: thanks05:46
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yamahatas3wong: ETSI NFV spec, http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-opsawg-6.pdf and http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-opsawg-7.pdf would help05:47
yamahata#link http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-opsawg-7.pdf05:47
malini1question: can a single NFV instance be used for one tenant and then later repurposed for another tenant without any scrubbing? or does that depend on the NFV type?05:47
yamahata#link http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-opsawg-6.pdf05:47
balajipmalini1:It depends on the deployment type.05:49
yamahatamalini1: it depends on VM image. I haven't looked at NFV spec closely yet, though.05:49
gongyshI think we should return the NFV instance back to pool until it can be repurposed to anther tenant.05:50
gongyshSo we must clear tenant related stuff during the returning.05:50
bmelandemalini1: perhaps this is a new requirement, i.e. ability to specify that VM instance can be "reused" or not (after having being used for some tenant)05:51
yamahataokay ten minutes left.05:51
yamahataany other issues?05:52
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malini1bmelande: looks like a parameter. if latency to create an NFV instance is large, then we would always have 1 or two spares created a fresh with just configuration to be applied. this approach if scrubbing or proving scrubbed for security is difficult05:53
balajipyamahata:what are the action items we have for this week?05:53
malini1i would like vry much to know what next concrete steps are and what we want to implement, architect and get started05:53
yamahata#action everyone review incubation page05:54
bmelandeRegarding ETSI NVF: So we strive to be compliant with their terminology? But perhaps not necessarily implement their architecture?05:54
yamahatabmelande: yes. So we can do design/implementation and terminology discussion in parallel.05:55
s3wongbmelande: we (at least I) have to look into what special use cases are required by NFV specifically on VM (both network connectivity and lifecycle)05:55
balajipbmelande:agree, lets go throught the given links and discuss in the next week meeting05:55
malini1bmelande: +1. i am thinking of minimal implementation, then a phase-2, phase-3. but phase-1 should meet the needs of the vrouter mentioned05:55
ChristianM_bmelande: I think we should align terminology then the appropriate Openstack implementation05:55
s3wongbmelande: at least initially, seems like we will focus more on NFV use cases (as agreed by the community here)05:55
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malini1i heard that cisco had a solution and perhaps something needs to be merged or extended. are we starting with cisco implementation?05:56
bmelandemalini1: Yes, we have one implementation, and Isaku has one, and others do too. :-)05:57
bmelandemalini1: with more or less overlaps05:57
yamahatabmelande: can you provide the link to github?05:57
malini1i was also thinking that a phase-1 would be developing a serviceVM catalog that the neutron nfv flavor guys could query05:57
balajipmalini1: we do have one ...:-)05:57
malini1:-) :-) do we really need to build another?05:58
bmelandeNo, let's merge them :-)05:58
malini1does it make sense to have each of the implementations dicussed and adopt the richest or the minimal set or ..?05:58
balajipmalini1: we have to bring all the good feature together and make it more appropriate for adoption.05:58
s3wongmalin1: we would like to consolidate05:58
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yamahata+1 for merge05:59
malini1+1 merge05:59
ChristianM_I think merging all features would be great and provide some momentum05:59
ChristianM_+1 merge05:59
balajip+1 for merge05:59
gongyshjust like the opendaylight,  the core will help lots.05:59
gongysh+1 for merge and then develop more06:00
yamahataGreat. time is running out.06:00
malini1gongysh: assume you will not get much help from neutron core, they are swamped06:00
yamahatatomorrow, there is NFV irc meeting and let's advocate our project.06:00
malini1would it be possible to send out links to each impl and a presentation06:00
bmelandeyamahata: +106:01
malini1i would suggest startign with one as base and slowly merging in the others, feature by feature06:01
yamahatahttps://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM has many links06:01
malini1but need to choose the first impl06:01
balajipyamahata:sure, we should do that06:01
gongyshmalini1:  we can do it ourselves.06:01
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malini1yamahata: thank you, i have hme work :-)06:01
yamahataokay any other last word?06:01
ChristianM_what time is the NFV irc meeting tomorrow ?06:02
malini1gongysh: +106:02
s3wongChristianM_: Wed 14:00 UTC06:02
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s3wongsame channel as here06:02
balajipthanks..had a very good discussion..today06:02
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yamahatathank you.06:02
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malini1thanks and bye06:02
bmelandeThanks. Bye!06:03
yamahataWe'll have irc meeting next week.06:03
yamahatathank, bye06:03
s3wongthank you guys for your enthusisam for the project!06:03
ChristianM_thanks, bye06:03
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"06:03
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun  3 06:03:22 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)06:03
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-06-03-05.04.html06:03
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-06-03-05.04.txt06:03
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-06-03-05.04.log.html06:03
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akamyshnikovaHi everyone!12:58
akamyshnikovaHenryG, are you here?12:59
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HenryGakamyshnikova: yes12:59
HenryGsalv-orlando: ping12:59
HenryG#startmeeting neutron_db13:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun  3 13:00:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is HenryG. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.13:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_db)"13:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_db'13:00
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HenryGToday's agenda:13:00
HenryG#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/NeutronDB#Agenda13:00
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HenryG#topic Spec/Blueprint13:01
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HenryG#link https://review.openstack.org/9573813:01
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HenryG#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/db-migration-refactor13:01
HenryGI have linked some bugs to the BP.13:01
HenryGPlease add any missing associated bugs.13:01
HenryG(In the launchpad BP page, click on "Link a bug report".)13:01
HenryGSome of those bugs may be abandoned. We'll discuss this shortly.13:01
HenryGThe questions raised in the spec review are design questions, so let's discuss those now.13:02
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HenryG#topic Design13:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Design (Meeting topic: neutron_db)"13:03
salv-orlandoI have missed the previous meeting - so if I’m talking about stuff already committed please just reply “sorry, already committed"13:03
akamyshnikovayes I've got this document with some notes and related link to change #link https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/10p6JKIQf_rymBuNeOywjHiv53cRTfz5kBg8LeUCeykI/edit13:03
HenryGsalv-orlando: good to have you here!13:03
salv-orlandoI am still “supporting” a model where the migrations are healed within the migration path; this is mostly to make it easier for operators.13:03
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salv-orlandoI also think and I believe we all agree that we don’t need to support offline migrations13:04
salv-orlandoAnd I still think we can rework existing migrations, guaranteeing downgrade up to havana13:04
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HenryGsalv-orlando: So you mean no separate migration timelines?13:05
salv-orlandoyes. But since you’re supporting an approach for a fresh start, this is probably not feasible?13:06
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HenryGI am going to ask akamyshnikova and jlibosva to offer their opinions.13:06
akamyshnikovausing healing migration have such plus that would be easier get context and won't be such problem that someone forgot to run --heal. But using separate script is also acceptable13:07
akamyshnikovarpodolyaka, what do you think do we need a separate script?13:08
salv-orlandoI thionk there are two problem with an upgrade script. None of them is a show stopper13:08
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salv-orlando1) operators should be aware of it and execute it prior to deploying juno. If the operator is a trunk chaser it should execute it immediately before rolling any juno commit13:08
rpodolyakaakamyshnikova: I think, no. so it would be just another migration13:09
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jlibosvasalv-orlando: why it cannot be run from neutron-db-manage? but not part of migration13:09
salv-orlando2) discontinuity - no downgrade. Tipically people don’t. But sometimes things do not go right, so you have to.13:09
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HenryGThe trickiest issue I see is that before the healing the schema is not a known thing (it depends on the config). So how can we downgrade to that?13:09
jlibosvaI guess you still have the config13:10
salv-orlandojlibosva: I am assuming you do not want to add conditional switches in neutron-db-manage to say if you’re going past icehouse then do first the script and then resume migration13:10
salv-orlandoI was think that we don’t need to keep all those hundreds of migrations we have.13:10
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salv-orlandoif you install anything past icehouse. I would have a situation like the following:13:11
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salv-orlandofrom icehouse upwards first run healing migration and then any other migration that it might be added13:11
salv-orlandofrom icehouse backward run healing migration again, and then a single, coalesced migration from going from icehouse to havana13:12
salv-orlandoas grizzly is not supported anymore - havana can be considered starting point13:12
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salv-orlandothe healing migration, being idempotent13:12
salv-orlandocan be at multiple places in the migration path.13:12
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salv-orlandoI think we all agree it will be idempotent, regardless of whether it’s a migration or a script?13:13
salv-orlandomeaning that if you run it twice you don’t screw your database!13:13
akamyshnikovano, I think running it twice won't be a problem.13:14
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rpodolyakaakamyshnikova: it will probably depend on how you 'heal' the schema :)13:15
HenryGrpodolyaka: have you seen akamyshnikova 's WIP?13:15
rpodolyakaHenryG: I saw some patch last week. Haven't seen updated stuff yet13:16
* HenryG is looking for the patch ...13:16
rpodolyakahttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/96438/2 ?13:17
akamyshnikovathe last one is this #link https://review.openstack.org/9643813:17
akamyshnikovayes :)13:17
* rpodolyaka looks13:17
rpodolyakaakamyshnikova: I'll some comments13:18
akamyshnikovaof course, all comments are welcome13:19
salv-orlandoI think the concept would be pretty much “if this table is not there create it” or “if this column is not there, create it"13:19
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salv-orlandotechnically not super-difficult, but surely boring as hell13:19
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HenryGSo are we agreeing that we'll aim for a "healing migration" and stop calling it a script?13:19
akamyshnikovathere I use alembic that find out all differences13:19
salv-orlandoHenryG: looking at Anna’s patch it could be easily script run withing a migration13:20
rpodolyakasalv-orlando: probably, also missing unique constraints and indexes?13:20
salv-orlandorpodolyaka: you’re tempting my pedantry…13:20
salv-orlandoSo you can have a script for people who do not wish using migrations (if there’s anybody out there who runs for instance only on autogenerated schemas)13:20
salv-orlandoand the same script being executed within the migration path13:21
HenryGI thought we are going to remove auto-generation?13:21
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salv-orlandoYes we are.13:24
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salv-orlandountil that happens however people might still do that.13:24
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salv-orlandoAnd also I was just looking for a good excuse to give users the double option of having an offline script to heal the database as well as a migration.13:25
HenryGSo I assume the removing auto-generation of db schema from models at startup: that will have to be done some time after we have committed the healing?13:26
salv-orlandoAnyway I think we can move the technical discussions around design to gerrit, since the spec is there now.13:26
salv-orlandoHenryG: I think we can do that also in parallel, do you see a reason why we shouldn’t be able to do so?13:26
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jlibosvasalv-orlando: IIRC Mark told me the db scheme is not the same when using neutron-db-manage and create_all()13:27
jlibosvabecause of missing stuff in migrations13:27
HenryGsalv-orlando: if it goes in before then we can skip the extra script?13:27
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salv-orlandojlibosva: anna is looking after discrepancies13:28
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salv-orlandoHenryG: I guess so.13:29
HenryGSo ...13:29
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HenryG1) fix migrations bugs currently filed13:30
salv-orlandoHonestly however the devil is in the details here, so I’d rely on the outcome of the various jenkins jobs for the patch that remove the migrations13:30
jlibosvamigrations or auto-generation?13:30
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HenryGsalv-orlando: I think we have all the bugs filed13:30
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HenryG2) remove auto-generation13:31
HenryG3) Supply healing migration13:31
HenryG4) ...13:31
HenryG5) Profit!13:31
jlibosvaI was hoping for that!13:32
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HenryGI am still little fuzzy on the downgrade, but let's discuss that in the spec comments.13:32
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salv-orlandoWhat is item #4?13:32
salv-orlandopray that everything works?13:33
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akamyshnikovaWe all agreed  about not to do downgrade for healing script, am I right?13:33
jlibosvaIf we will fix all the missing parts in migrations, does it have to be in healing script then?13:33
HenryGakamyshnikova: My fuzzy understanding is the downgrade will be a one-time special to havana only.13:34
jlibosvaimo downgrade is not worth it13:34
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HenryGWhat I am not clear on is juno -> icehouse downgrade13:35
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salv-orlandoI was thinking that the downgrade brings you in a parallel universe13:36
salv-orlandowhere the parallel universe has a consistent “icehouse” db state13:36
HenryGsalv-orlando: is that really a downgrade? or a slidegrade?13:37
salv-orlandobut if you do not want to break space time continuum, then just kill the old migration path, and start a new one with juno13:37
salv-orlandowhatever it is it will give you an icehouse database you can use with the software13:37
salv-orlando(I don’t know what a slidegrade is)13:38
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HenryGI meant sidegrade. It wasn't very funny.13:38
salv-orlandoIs it a downgrade done with powerpoint? :p13:38
salv-orlandoI see it’s pretty much like Doc’s diagrams on back to the future I guess...13:38
salv-orlandoyou go back to icehouse but it’s not the icehouse you used to kniow13:39
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HenryGThe downgrade to icehouse/havana can be worked on separately?13:39
salv-orlandoyes it can I guess13:39
HenryGIf so, we can keep it on a wishlist status.13:39
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HenryGLet's concentrate our efforts on the healing migration for now.13:40
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HenryGI will update the spec13:41
HenryGPlease keep the review comments coming13:41
HenryGAny other design questions?13:42
akamyshnikovaok, also I hope to see some comments to my WIP change.13:42
salv-orlandoHenryG: I like the diplomatic answer to say - yes we could do that but I’d rather not ;)13:42
HenryGsalv-orlando: If I wrote that you would -1 me13:43
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salv-orlandowhatever works for operators works for me anyway, so if we don’t have a requirement for downgrades from juno to havana I’m fine with doing keeping the discontinuity13:44
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HenryGIs there an operators list? Should I ask there?13:45
HenryG#action HenryG to ask about downgrade requirements on operators list13:45
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HenryGsalv-orlando: thanks13:46
HenryGmoving on13:46
HenryG#topic Testing13:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Testing (Meeting topic: neutron_db)"13:46
HenryGakamyshnikova: can you update me/us on what you are syncing from oslo?13:47
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akamyshnikovait was a module that created rpodolyaka that check models and migrations synchronization. As it had to be moved from oslo to oslo.db work on this stoped.13:48
HenryGIs oslo.db a package?13:49
salv-orlandoafaik is still “incubating” is it?13:49
rpodolyakait's graduated13:49
rpodolyakawe haven't cut the first release yet13:50
salv-orlandoah good to know, so we need to do another big port in neutron as we’re doing for oslo.messaging13:50
rpodolyakaI hope the transition will be fairly smooth13:50
rpodolyakano big changes needed13:50
HenryGrpodolyaka: when will it be released?13:50
rpodolyakaHenryG: asap, we are waiting for a few important patches to be merged first13:50
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HenryGI would rather go directly to the package if possible13:51
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HenryGrpodolyaka: will you be introducing oslo.db to neutron?13:52
rpodolyakaHenryG: yeah, as soon as it's released :)13:52
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HenryGOK, please keep me up to date on the progress13:53
rpodolyakaHenryG: sure, np13:53
HenryG#topic Meeting time13:53
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HenryGCan we move the meeting to Mondays at 1300 UTC?13:54
akamyshnikovayes :)13:54
HenryGrpodolyaka ?13:54
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salv-orlandomondays are fine for me fwiw13:55
HenryGGreat. I will update the wiki13:56
rpodolyakaHenryG: works for me13:56
HenryG#topic Open discussion13:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_db)"13:56
HenryGIf there are no further questions I will end the meeting13:56
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akamyshnikovaI have no questions13:57
HenryGThanks everyone for your time!13:57
HenryGSee you in the spec and code reviews!13:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"13:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun  3 13:58:16 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)13:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-06-03-13.00.html13:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-06-03-13.00.txt13:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_db/2014/neutron_db.2014-06-03-13.00.log.html13:58
rpodolyakathanks all! bye!13:58
akamyshnikovathanks! bye!13:58
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sc68cal#startmeeting neutron_ipv614:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun  3 14:00:50 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6'14:00
sc68calHello everyone14:01
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sc68cal#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Neutron-IPv6-Subteam#Agenda_for_June_3rd Agenda14:01
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sc68cal#topic blueprints14:02
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:02
sc68calWe currently have at least one blueprint that is set for J-114:02
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sc68calThe blueprint for upstream slaac support was merged last week14:03
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sc68calI believe we need blueprints created in neutron-specs for the blueprints that cover code changes to dnsmasq14:04
sc68calsuch as https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/dnsmasq-ipv6-slaac14:04
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sc68calAre there any new BPs to discuss?14:05
baolisc68cal: I've updated the RA BP neutron spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92164/914:05
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dane_leblancsc68cal: I'm working on design spec for multi-IPv6-prefix blueprint, should be out shortly.14:06
sc68caldane_leblanc: very cool14:07
aveigaI'm working out some kinks on the ipv6 floating IP BP as well14:07
aveigashould also be up this week14:07
sc68calbaoli: I still have some concerns about your proposal to replace the two attribute with a new single attribute14:07
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xuhanpsc68cal, I think someone mentioned IPv6 metadata in email discussion. I am very interested and want to investigate more.14:07
sc68calFirstly, we started from a single attribute back during the Havana timeframe14:08
sc68calthen through this subteam determined that two attributes was more suitable14:08
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baolisc68cal: I understand your concerns14:08
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sc68calThis is only my opinion, but we'd pretty much have to stop all the work we're doing and go back to square one. That means no real IPv6 support untill probably K timeframe14:09
aveigabaoli: I'm curious.  You mention in the spec that the two attrib approach uses two copies of dnsmasq and list that as a drawback.  How do you intend to have a dhcpv6 network and route packets without something else to issue RAs?14:09
sc68calxuhanp: cool - yeah metadata is tricky since AWS has no ipv6.14:10
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baoliaveiga, the spec talks about RAs, right?14:10
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baolisc68cal, can we discuss the comments in the dnsmasq patch?14:11
sc68calbaoli: if there are no further blueprints, yeah I can advance the topic to code review14:12
baolisc68cal, one of the reasons for me to propose the one attribute (I understand it's kind of late in the sicussion) is after reviewing the changes in very detail14:12
baolisc68cal, sure14:12
sc68cal#topic code review14:13
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sc68caldo you have a link, there's a couple patches re dnsmasq14:13
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baoliso the values of the two attributes are used to determine the command line for dnsmasq, and there are some concerns on how that's done in the patch.14:14
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sc68calbaoli: ok14:16
baoliI also want to add that the current dhsmasq impelentation as it is works for ipv614:16
baoliwhat is missing is the RA + SLAAC.14:17
sc68calWe've encountered a number of bugs with the current code as it stands - I'm not sure what you mean by the current impl as it is works for ipv614:17
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baolisc68cal, the latest code from upstream.14:18
sc68calok - can you please start a thread on the ML with more details14:18
baolisc68cal, I apologize for reintroducing the one attribute at this point of the game. But I'm hoping it's for good reasons.14:18
baolisc68cal, you mean starting a thread on the one attribute versus two attributs?14:19
sc68calI was thinking details for what you mean by the current dnsmasq implementation as it is works for ipv614:20
sc68calif you want to start a thread on 1 attribute vs 2 - feel free to as well14:20
sc68calbut we're basically 1 week away from J-114:20
baolisc68cal, do you want the thread to cover how it works now?14:20
sc68calWe can continue to debate changing API attributes or we can start working on getting dnsmasq working properly14:21
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baolisc68cal, by making it work properly, you mean the DHCP part or the RA part?14:22
sc68calMost likely both14:22
sc68caland fixing an existing issue where a bad host file with v6 addresses causes dnsmasq to crash, and stop issuing ipv4 leases14:22
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baoliwhat is the bug number for that?14:23
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1257446 in neutron "Creating a dual-stacked network causes dhcp for both stacks to fail" [Medium,Triaged]14:25
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sc68calare there any other code reviews anyone would like to discuss?14:26
baoliI'm now running a dual stack testbed, and it seems to be working fine now14:27
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sc68calbaoli: then can you share the details of your configuration14:29
sc68calhow you created the network and subnet in the api14:29
sc68calon the mailing list14:29
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baolisc68cal, sure14:29
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sc68calAny other code reviews, or shall we continue on to bugs14:30
baolithe devstack change14:30
baoliI am going to follow sean dague's recommendation to submit patch for the mgmt net.14:31
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sc68cal#topic bugs14:34
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sc68calbaoli: have you written up a bug report for the floating ip issue we discussed last week14:35
baoliyes, I did14:35
baolilet me find the link14:35
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1323766 in neutron "Incorrect Floating IP behavior  in dual stack or ipv6 only network" [Undecided,New]14:36
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sc68calperfect, I have added that to the main meeting agenda to discuss next monday14:38
baolisc68cal, thanks14:38
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sc68calmarkmcclain said that it might be just that the order is determined by the ordering in the database layer14:38
sc68calfor whatever the query they build14:38
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sc68calany other bugs to discuss?14:39
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lancet“I dare anyone on the fucking planet to tell me that their job is better than mine,” Tasha said to herself as straddled the big cock and slowly lowered herself down onto it. The immense head took some work to get inside but once in, she was able to steadily pull more and more inside of her. Her vaginal walls were stretched to the max and she relished the intense friction. With one hand, she adjusted her grip on th14:40
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lancetTasha felt immensely and overwhelmingly full and looked down to see just how much more was left. “Damn!,” she screamed. There’s still a good half-foot left to go!” Lance grinned around the turgid nipple he continued sucking on and squeezed Tasha’s ass cheeks harder. Soon they established a rhythm and Tasha bounced and gyrated on the long pole. “Ohhhhhhh that’s some good dick,” Tasha groaned as she ther14:40
lancet... an effort to get more and more of him inside of her. Her big heavy tits smacked and whacked Lance’s face relentlessly and Lance took pleasure in each slap, slobbering and licking all over the huge chocolate orbs.14:40
lancetThe room was filled with the sounds of slurping, grunting, groaning, moaning and flesh slapping against flesh as the two engaged in the age-old tug of war. Lance ran his mouth from one tit to the other and the two would engage in a lust filled tongue battle. Tasha tried her best to drive more and more of the big dong inside of her, her stretched cunt gripped that fat penis tightly. Her hole leaked continually and mixe14:40
lancet... precum, their juices ran everywhere and filled the room with their raw, musky, pungent odor. After several minutes of pile driving on his cock, Tasha finally stood up straight and dislodged the fat dong from her pussy. She got down off the sofa and stumbled over to a large padded examination chair, her legs none too weak from the crouching position she’d been in and the way Lance had so throughly fucked her. She14:41
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lancet... back spread her gaping pussy wide. “C’mon over here and stick that fat bastard in this hot pussy,” she hissed.14:41
lancetLance stood up and stumbled a bit himself, not only from exhaustion but from the weight of his enormous phallus. He looked down at the raging monster and marveled at his own staying power. He balls flopped loudly against his thighs as he made his way over to Tasha and thick drops of precut streamed from his cock head like a dropping faucet, leaving a trail on the floor. Tasha reached out and grabbed the shaft and guid14:41
lancet... hands against the stirrups and pushed his hips forward, sliding the huge mushroom head between her thick, puffy lips. Tasha gasped and let out a long, low moan as Lance pushed his long cock inside of her. 6, 7, 8 inches he pushed in on one long slow stroke before pulling a couple of inches out and sinking more of the thick root inside of her. Tasha arched her back as best she could and adjusted her legs in the sti14:41
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lancet... hot throbbing dong as she could. Lance looked down and watched as he sank over a foot of his cock inside of her.14:41
lancetTodd still had several inches left to go but decided to start his stokes at that point. He pulled nearly half of what he had inside of her out before plunging it all back inside. Being able to take such long strokes played havoc on both Tasha’s fat clit with the prolonged one-way stimulation. Her pussy quivered and spasmed as she bucked in orgasm. Lance watched as stretched lips convulsed and shimmied, spewing her c14:41
haleybanyone an op here to kick ^^14:41
lancet... crevices.14:41
lancet“Fuck!” Lance shouted as he pumped his cock in and out of Tasha’s slit. He’d always gotten off on the contrast of his skin with his wife and now to have it go the other way wight he darker skinned woman was a huge turn-on. His massive ball sac slapped Tasha’s ass hard on each stroke, sending jolts of electrical excitement coursing through his groin. Tasha was amazed at such a steady pace he’d set, as if he14:41
lancet... time. After 5 minutes of solid, non-stop fucking and several hard, gushing orgasms, Tasha needed to switch positions. She pulled her feet from the stirrups and carefully placed her feet in his chest, digging her heels into Lance’s pecs. Lance didn’t read the move as an effort for her to get up and found the sting of the heels grinding into his flesh an immense turn on. He grabbed her ankles and pushed her feet14:41
lancet“Ohhhhhhhh you big fuckin bastard!” Tasha shouted, the shift of her legs creating an even tighter canal for Lance’s pistoning cock. “Shit! Shit! Shit!” she shouted as she could feel her juices streaming down the crack of her ass from the juices now pouring from her throbbing pussy. She had to get Lance away from her so she summoned as much strength as she could and pushed her legs out, forcing his cock to po14:41
lancetThe force of the exit caused her to release more of her hot juice and her pussy literally gushed and spewed its juices onto the carpet. Lance stumbled back and caught his breath. His cock angrily bobbed up and down, clearly angry that it had been so forcefully extracted from the sweet, warm confines of Tasha’s box. Tasha slumped awkwardly in the chair, her massive tits swayed form side to side as her big chest heave14:41
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lancet... stand. “You are a fucking machine, you know that?” Tasha said between gasps. Lance responded by stroking his cock with one hand while grabbing a handful of his testicles in the other. “Hey - I’m just getting started,” he sneered as he stepped towards her. Tasha held up her hand. “Believe me, we are certainly going to finish what we started, but right now I need you in a milker. I think you’re good an14:42
sc68calhaleyb: +114:42
lancetJoan stood in front of the machine and looked in awe. While it was similar to the one at the other office, this one seemed to be so much more complex. It has dozens of words and cables coming from it, all neatly corded together and ran the full length of the ceiling out in all directions to large servers along the far wall. Huge monitors with graphs and charts and gauges all monitored the system and looked like someth14:42
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lancetA short woman with bleach blonde hair and sparkling blue eyes stepped out from behind one of the large vents of the machine and sauntered over to Joan. Other than the striking features of her hair and eyes, the other most obvious and notable thing about the woman was the size of her breasts. To Joan’s amazement, she wasn’t inflated to gigantic proportions like all of the other women she’d seen that were associat14:42
lancet... naturally huge tits, she was still on par, and even bigger, than some of the other women Joan had seen. But not this woman, and it truly threw Joan for a loop.14:42
lancet“My name is Dr. Rebecca Parsons. I will be your facilitator for your enhancement. Please undress and step into the chamber,” the woman said in a staccato, kurt tone. Joan cast a weary eye at Chelsea and Chelsea gave her a soothing smile. “She acts like a bulldog, but she’s actually a real pussy cat,” Chelsea said, leaning over and whispering to Joan. “And the pussy is pretty good, too,” she aded with a w14:42
lancet... took off her shoes, shorts and shirt. Just as she was about to step into the chamber, Parsons barked at her. “All of you clothing, please. The chamber will not provide proper readings unless you are completely unclothed.” Joan stepped out of her panties and reached around and unsnapped her bra. Her big boobs spilled out and she sighed lightly at the feeling of them being freed from their confines. She stepped14:42
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haleybthanks jeblair14:42
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sc68calSo uh, any more bugs to discuss?14:44
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sc68cal#topic open discussion14:45
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:45
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xuhanpsc68cal, were you able to talk to Shi Xiong to start to get those review comments addressed?14:47
sc68calxuhanp: I sent an e-mail to him yesterday to see if he had time to talk14:48
sc68calI have not heard a response back14:48
xuhanpgood to hear that. Thanks14:48
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sc68calif you have a chunk of that patch that you want to take and work on, please do14:48
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sc68calworst case you can give him attribution in the commit message14:49
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xuhanpsc68cal, just want to make sure we split that smartly so it can be reviewed well.14:50
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xuhanpmay need some overall plan to do that.14:50
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sc68calxuhanp: agree. I just realized that the patch is abandoned14:51
xuhanpsc68cal, yeah. it gets -1 for a while.14:51
sc68calso I don't think we have much we can do to that specific review until we get a hold of Shixiong and have him restore it14:51
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sc68calat this point I think we just need to tear the band-aid off and take parts of that commit and rework and submit new reviews14:52
sc68calxuhanp: so if you have a piece you want to work on, go ahead. Just make sure to also submit a BP to neutron-specs14:52
xuhanpsc68cal, OK. will do.14:52
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sc68calOK - if there is nothing else I think we'll bring this meeting to a close14:57
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sc68calI'm in the -neutron IRC channel as usual14:58
sc68caltake care everyone!14:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun  3 14:58:40 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-06-03-14.00.html14:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-06-03-14.00.txt14:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-06-03-14.00.log.html14:58
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n0ano#startmeeting gantt15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun  3 15:00:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gantt'15:00
n0anoanyone here want to talk abou the scheduler?15:00
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* n0ano wonders how many was you can combine / and \15:01
bauzasI'm left-handed :)15:01
n0anobauzas, you & my wife :-)15:01
bauzasso \o is better than o/15:01
* mspreitz /*\15:01
* mspreitz /o\15:01
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n0anowell, why don't we get started (all the important people are here)15:02
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* johnthetubaguy is lurking, but on a call15:02
n0ano#topic forklift15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "forklift (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:02
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n0anomainly status I think, anything to report bauzas ?15:03
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bauzassorry, was mailing15:03
bauzasso, yes, big status15:04
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bauzasprogress so far on implementing the sched-lib15:04
bauzas(that's eating most of my nights now, as juno-1 is next week)15:04
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bauzasI'm about delivering a new patchset (hoping to land by tomorrow) taking in account all comments15:05
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bauzasI spent most of my time this week on 2 big concerns15:05
bauzas#1 : we're not using objects in RT, so I had to trick some things for using objects with sched-lib15:06
bauzasthat requires some refactoring effort on that patch15:06
mspreitz"RT" ?15:06
bauzas#2 : I raised the concern that IMHO, logic should stay in the Sched-manager15:07
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bauzasmspreitz: RT : ResourceTracker, my bad15:07
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bauzasabout #2, a dependent patch has been landed by yesterday15:07
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bauzasyour comments are welcome on that patch15:08
n0ano#action everyone to review  https://review.openstack.org/9723215:08
bauzasit will be updated tomorrow with the updates from https://review.openstack.org/82778 (they are dependent)15:08
bauzaswell the most important thing is architectural15:08
bauzasI mean, I ported the logic to the sched manager15:09
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toan-tranbauzas: on https://review.openstack.org/82778, client.py line 5515:09
bauzasbut with that 97232 patch, that means that now compute nodes are now sending updates to scheduler15:09
toan-tranI put a comment there15:09
toan-trancould you take a quick look please?15:09
toan-tranhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/82778/13/nova/scheduler/client.py, line 5515:09
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n0anobauzas, in re updates to sched - this is in addition to the compute nodes updating the DB?15:10
bauzastoan-tran: yay, saw your comment15:10
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bauzastoan-tran: I'm sorry, but no this is service_name15:10
bauzastoan-tran: you're getting a service with possibly multiple nodes15:10
bauzastoan-tran: but wait my new patchset, the logic will be rewritten so that it will be clearer to read15:11
bauzasn0ano: not exactly15:11
toan-tranbauzas: thanks, it's rather confusing the variables' name15:11
toan-tranand please if you can add some description on compute_nodes' structure, that would be greate15:12
bauzasn0ano: the problem is that computes are using conductor to update DB for compute_nodes15:12
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bauzasn0ano: even if we externalize the call to the conductor into a separate library, that still means that computes literally update compute_nodes15:12
bauzasn0ano: it should only place a call to an API to the sched15:13
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bauzasn0ano: so the sched would update its own DB15:13
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bauzasn0ano: but that means now that all RT updates will go thru sched15:13
mspreitzI thought no-db-scheduler was in the future15:13
bauzasn0ano: that's a possible bottleneck15:13
n0anowhich is the way compute nodes used to work (the more things change the more they stay the same)15:14
bauzasmspreitz: that's not related to no-db work15:14
mspreitzbut it sounds like it..?15:14
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bauzasno-db work is about having a no-db backend for scheduler15:14
bauzasbut the blueprint is confusing15:14
bauzason my side, I'm not changing how we store things15:15
n0anomspreitz, I think the point is compute sends update to the sched, where sched stores that info is upto the sched, db for now, memory when no-db is in15:15
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bauzasI'm just making sure that only sched holds the compute_nodes table15:15
bauzasn0ano: +115:15
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canaima172423 yo no hablo ingles15:16
bauzasanyway, if we consider Gantt, this is a long-term feature15:16
bauzasas RT will need to call Gantt for updating its state15:16
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bauzasso anyway, RT will place an external call15:17
bauzasthe problem is that it requires Gantt (or the sched now) to be robust enough15:17
n0anoI agree, I think compute status updates should go to the sched and then let sched decide the best way to store the info so this is good.15:17
toan-trann0ano: this is rather heavy for Gantt15:18
bauzasso, to sum up the most important work is on https://review.openstack.org/8277815:18
toan-transhould we have some synchronizer to handle DB ? like no-db15:18
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bauzasand reviews are welcome on https://review.openstack.org/97232 and https://review.openstack.org/8989315:18
n0anotoan-tran, maybe but I've just created a BP ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/on-demand-compute-update ) to change the way we send updates...15:18
bauzasn0ano: that's a good thing15:19
n0anochange from periodic to on demand, I thought someone was already working on this but I guess not so I'll start it15:19
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bauzasmmm, that was about no-db discussion15:19
toan-trann0ano: +115:19
bauzasn0ano: ping us the nova-spec draft once you're done with15:20
bauzasn0ano: so I'll be able to review it15:20
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n0anostatus updates are orthogonal to no-db, I think the no-db spec got a little overly complex15:20
toan-trann0ano: could you do some analysis on performance ? comparison with current method15:20
n0anobauzas, sure, the BP is there, I have to do the details for the git repo15:20
toan-transome graph would be nice :)15:20
canaima172423hello how are;-)15:21
bauzasn0ano: I subscribed to the BP, so I'll get the patch link15:21
n0anotoan-tran, hard for me, I have like a max of a 3 node system :-(  I'm not a bluehost15:21
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toan-trann0ano: well, we don't need a real system for that15:21
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toan-tranok maybe I will make some Matlab graph so see15:22
bauzastoan-tran: your ideas are welcome15:22
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bauzascanaima172423: we're in the middle of a meeting, please join #openstack-101 if you want to talk about Openstack15:22
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n0anotoan-tran, any suggestions on how to get some scaling date from a small system would be welcom15:23
n0anobauzas, I tried to talk to him on a private dialog but he seems to be ignoring me15:23
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bauzasI just remind you all that juno-1 is next week15:23
mspreitzAnd we're having a Nova bug day today?15:24
bauzasso, if you want to vote on having sched-lib to be merged by juno-1, please put some reviews :)15:24
n0anobauzas,  anyway, sounds like you have the forklift well in had (baring some reviews) any other help you need?15:24
bauzasn0ano: as said last week, I'll probably require some help for implementing https://review.openstack.org/8989315:24
bauzasit's targeted for juno-315:25
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bauzasbtw, I'll travelling next week15:25
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n0anoI have some colleges (sp?) in China, let me see if I can get someone to work on that15:26
bauzasso I won't be able to attend the meeting (:15:26
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n0anobauzas, NP but if you can send me a quick email update before hand that would be good15:26
bauzasand Monday is bank holiday in France15:26
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bauzasn0ano: will do - don't hesitate to ping me by email ;)15:26
n0anoso, we don't work for a bank :-)15:26
* n0ano favorite holiday is Tomb Cleaning Day in China :-)15:27
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bauzaswell, I don't know the word, I would say 'legal' holiday then :)15:27
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bauzasanyway, I'm done15:27
n0anobauzas, no, your were correct, I was just making a pun15:27
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bauzasany other questions about the forklift?15:28
toan-tranbauzas: well, depending on company, mine still works :)15:28
n0anobauzas, tnx, good work15:28
bauzasn0ano: :D15:28
n0ano#action n0ano to get someone to work on https://review.openstack.org/8989315:28
n0anomoving on15:28
n0ano#topic no-db scheduler15:28
*** openstack changes topic to "no-db scheduler (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:28
bauzastoan-tran: don't leave me explain Pentecost Day in France and its paperwork-related stuff :)15:28
n0anoYorikSar, you there15:28
YorikSarYea, hi15:29
YorikSarI've seen a lot of comments to my spec15:29
bauzashi YorikSar :)15:29
bauzasYorikSar: indeed :)15:29
n0anoindeed, we finally got moving on that15:29
YorikSarAlthough I never found time to answer or address them.15:29
YorikSarI guess I'll be working on that this week.15:30
bauzasYorikSar: cool let us know15:30
YorikSarYou all will know in Gerrit's emails ;)15:30
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mspreitzBTW, for the rest of us who do not know Kafka, is there a short sharp summary of what it is and why the advocate thinks it is relevant?15:30
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YorikSar(in? from? through?)15:30
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toan-tranYorikSar: in john garbutt's comment15:31
bauzasmspreitz: I'm sorry, maybe johnthetubaguy can comment it ?15:31
YorikSarmspreitz: I honestly didn't understand how it could fit in our scheme.15:31
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bauzasYorikSar: I haven't said the word tooz :)15:32
johnthetubaguyjust seemed a lot like the mem cache queue of updates, but already implemented15:32
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johnthetubaguythe feed back in the summt was it sounds like we are re-inventing a DB15:32
bauzasYorikSar: there is also https://github.com/stackforge/tooz15:33
n0anojohnthetubaguy, +1 (that's what I heard at the summit also)15:33
YorikSarjohnthetubaguy: That's very unfortunate outcoe. I wish I could be there to avoid such confusion.15:33
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mspreitzOK, I'll agree on the question of Kafka.  The proposed design is about getting updates to schedulers, it seems to be working around some presumed problem with fanout15:34
n0anoYorikSar, maybe a focused email to the dev list to address this issue from you would be good15:34
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YorikSarbauzas: tooz seems to be not about delivering data from tons of servers to some number of recepients.15:34
bauzasYorikSar: indeed, it's only about election, you're right15:35
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bauzasYorikSar: I was thinking about it for the scheduler15:35
mspreitzI mean, "why not Kafka" is a good question15:35
bauzasYorikSar: but my mind slipped a little bity15:35
mspreitzI wouldn't mind background on why oslo's fanout is not good enough15:35
YorikSarI'll take a closer look at Kafka, yes. But I feel like it won't be good for our case.15:35
bauzaswell, the problem is about the spec with regards to the timeline15:36
YorikSarSynchronizer provides not only better delivery pace but also some semi-persistence for "subscribers" that just came online or were sleeping too long.15:36
bauzasI mean, that's a big change, and we're only having 2 months for juno15:36
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YorikSarbauzas: That's not a big change...15:37
bauzasYorikSar: well, you introduce many concepts here :)15:37
n0anobauzas, if the backend is selectable between the current DB and the new scheme then the change isn't that disruptive15:37
bauzasYorikSar: and some of them are disruptive, see my comments in the spec :)15:37
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* YorikSar wishes to hide this work behind some other name so that everybody would forget what've been said about it during the whole year of dreaming the desing...15:38
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n0anoYorikSar, name change probably not an option but I understand you :-)15:38
bauzasYorikSar: well, the problem is that the spec is not that clear, I'm sorry :(15:39
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bauzasYorikSar: I mean, it seems some points are overlapping other developments15:39
YorikSarI think I'll try to convince people in spec first. And then I'll probably start some ML topic so that community could follow current state of things with this bp15:40
mspreitzWhat is wrong with oslo's fanout messaging, and why would the proposed backend do the job better?15:40
bauzasYorikSar: and you're proposing to rewrite the whole SQLA backend15:40
bauzasmspreitz: IIRC, fanout has been banned a long time ago15:40
mspreitz bauzas: why?15:40
bauzasmspreitz: lemme find the thread :)15:41
mspreitz(not an idle question, we need to know we are not re-producing the same problems)15:41
YorikSarbauzas: Well... It's a backend, right? This work just replaces a piece of wiring from compute nodes to the scheduler itself.15:41
n0anowe discussed fan out a long time agao but I don't think there was a definitive result, there are still proponents & opponents of it15:41
YorikSarmspreitz: Imagine this. Currently we have 1 message for every node every 1 min. With fanout that numbet will get multiplied by the number of schedulers/15:42
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YorikSarmspreitz: AFAIC that had been placing too much load to MQ.15:42
mspreitzYorikSar: the proposed design does as much messaging in total15:43
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mspreitzand with several schedulers, the backend is sending most of it15:43
n0anoYorikSar, note my new BP ( https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/on-demand-compute-update ), change the 1 min update to on demand and a lot of that load goes away15:43
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YorikSarmspreitz: This desing keeps numeber of messages the same (unless you plug compute nodes directly to synchronizer).15:44
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mspreitzwhat is same as what15:44
bauzasmspreitz: there we go : https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/no-compute-fanout-to-scheduler15:44
YorikSar1 message per node per minute15:44
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mspreitzBoth new design and oslo fanout send O((num schedulers) * (compute node update rate)) messages from backend / through message broker15:45
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YorikSarn0ano: I thought the source of node state is not that static. E.g. you can add some RAM to compute node and it'll show up on periodic update.15:45
mspreitzs/messages/message content/15:45
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n0anoYorikSar, you're talking about hot add of mem - that's just another (unlikely) event that causes an update15:46
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bauzasanyway, I don't think the main discussion about no-db is here :)15:46
YorikSarmspreitz: No... Schedulers retrieve new records from backend in packs while compute nodes push them there with the same pace.15:46
mspreitzthat's why I s/messages/message content/15:47
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mspreitzHow big is a compute node update?  n0ano's question is relevant here15:48
YorikSarn0ano: Ok, I remember I had an example of change that was triggered independently from nova-compute but I don't remember what it was.15:48
bauzasI'm just having pdb running15:48
bauzasdon't ask me to calculate the len15:48
n0anomspreitz, last I saw the log message it was about 20 lines of 80 characters15:48
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bauzas1226 chars15:49
bauzaswell, that depends of course15:49
n0anobauzas, pretty close to my 1600 estimate and yes, it varies a little, but not that much15:50
bauzascpu_info is the most greedy15:50
bauzasand the bad is that it's very static15:50
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bauzasyou don't change CPUs every day15:50
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* toan-tran wonders how close is 1600 to 122615:51
n0anobauzas, and the most static, we could change the update into two type (static/dynamic) if the size is a big problem.15:51
YorikSarbauzas: Depends on your hobby :)15:51
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bauzasYorikSar: :)15:51
n0anotoan-tran, within 1 order of magnitude, WFM :-)15:51
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toan-trann0ano: now I understand when you said "we don't work for the bank" :)15:52
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n0anotoan-tran, touche :-)15:52
bauzasguys, I know that hyper-v people cancelled the next meeting, but is it reasonable to chat about it while we're only havnig 8 mnis left ? :D15:52
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YorikSarI guess we can finish no-db topic here. We'll continue the discussion in the spec draft.15:53
n0anobauzas, I get fried after 60 min. anyway, I'd prefer to have YorikSar update his spec and send out the emails and then discuss later15:53
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bauzasn0ano: strong approval here15:53
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n0ano#action YorikSar to update the spec and start email thread on the dev list15:54
bauzasbut that RPC payload discussion is really passionating15:54
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n0anobauzas, I don't mind, strong opinions are good as long as no one gets intimidated15:54
n0anolet's move on15:55
n0ano#topic opens15:55
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n0anoanyone have anything new to raise today?15:55
bauzasyey, I mean I would love to discuss about it still15:55
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bauzas5 mins left :)15:55
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toan-tranwell, I intended to talk about my new patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/61386/15:55
bauzasjust a reminder, won't be avaiable from mon to thurs next week15:56
toan-tranbut I don't think we have time left, so maybe next time :)15:56
bauzastoan-tran: I briefly readed your spec15:56
toan-tranit's on my demo at Atlanta15:56
n0anotoan-tran, sure, I'll queue it up for next week (doesn't look like it's getting much love so far)15:56
bauzastoan-tran: very interesting, but I think we need to define a clear path for this15:56
toan-tranbauzas: +115:57
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bauzastoan-tran: and I would love to help you contributing on this15:57
toan-tranin fact I submitted it some months ago15:57
n0ano#action n0ano to add https://review.openstack.org/#/c/61386/ to agenda for next week15:57
toan-tranand after Atlanta I got really good talk with Jay Lau15:57
toan-tranhis Tetris is what I need for complete my schema15:58
bauzastoan-tran: yey, I think that Jay and I are sharing same views15:58
bauzastoan-tran: but that's a big baby15:58
toan-tranbauzas: here is my presentation: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B598PxJUvPrwcWZlaUlaOW11enM/edit?15:58
toan-tranpage 20 is my vision on the whole scheduling15:58
bauzastoan-tran: even bigger than Gantt IMHO :)15:58
toan-tranand Tetris fits right in Service Manager15:58
bauzastoan-tran: based on last Summit, I fear that it will be too big for Nova15:59
bauzastoan-tran: but that's a good fit for Gantt15:59
toan-tranbauzas: yeah, we expect Gantt will be part of it :D16:00
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toan-transo that will be Gantt + Tetris + Congress16:00
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bauzasI was thinking that GTC was related to fast cars :)16:00
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toan-tranbut the first step is small & simple, to make an policy-based engine that can fit in nova-scheduler or gantt16:00
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toan-tranbauzas: +)16:01
n0anotop of the hour guys, tnx, good discussion, we'll talk on email and be here next week.16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"16:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun  3 16:01:19 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)16:01
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-06-03-15.00.html16:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-06-03-15.00.txt16:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-06-03-15.00.log.html16:01
toan-tranthanks :)16:01
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bauzasthanks n0ano :)16:01
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boris-42msdubov hughsaunders marcoemorais harlowja hi guys meeting time16:59
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boris-42#startmeeting rally17:00
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openstackMeeting started Tue Jun  3 17:00:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: rally)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'17:00
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boris-42#topic rally info command & docs17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rally info command & docs (Meeting topic: rally)"17:00
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hughsaundershey boris-4217:00
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marcoemorais1boris-42: have to miss today's meeting ;( be back in abt 45m-60m17:01
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boris-42msdubov could you share with your updates17:02
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msdubovboris-42 Hi17:03
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msdubovSo first there is a new doc that describes main concepts used in Rally in more detail17:04
msdubovI hope this will be of great use for new developers in Rally17:04
msdubovIt describes what are benchmark scenarios, contexts and scenario runners17:04
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msdubovHow they function and how they can be extended17:04
msdubov(The doc itself will be extended as well)17:05
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msdubovAs for the "rally info" command...17:05
aswadrangnekarHi all17:05
msdubovI've updated the corresponding doc: https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/1m4HqrbWOfcvi-LKjehJZTeYX1p-TzXeUvfIHhyU9nOI/edit#heading=h.zh97w9nib53417:05
msdubovOne of new suggestions there (that I'd like to discuss) is in section 5, point 317:06
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msdubovnamely the  new ":sample:" clause in the docstrings17:06
msdubovthat would allow us to implement the --sample-config parameter in rally info17:07
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eyerediskinwhat about readthedocs? all docs about to be moved there?17:10
boris-42eyerediskin I think we should still have wiki17:10
eyerediskinwiki+readthedocs yes17:10
boris-42eyerediskin but docs are terrible out of date17:10
boris-42eyerediskin and not so readable, we will need to refactor them17:11
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msduboveyerediskin, I'm going to format the "Concepts" doc in rst17:11
msdubovSo that it will replace the outdated docs in readthedocs17:12
eyerediskinboris-42: ok. so we gonna have docs by url like "http://rally.rtfd.org/" instead of "http://docs.google.com/mirantis/blabla/blablabla/I(*F&(SFD*&)SD(F*&SD)(*&SD)(F*&SDF(*S&DF"17:12
msduboveyerediskin, I believe my wiki page fits the readthedocs format (especially when I split it into 3 parts)?17:12
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msduboveyerediskin, I mean it has overall descriptions + code snippets17:13
msduboveyerediskin, And seems to be not very long to read17:13
boris-42eyerediskin hmm17:13
boris-42eyerediskin docs are used for discussion17:13
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boris-42eyerediskin not as a docs or tutorials17:13
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hughsaundersboris-42: same docs could be used for both?17:14
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boris-42hughsaunders for what?)17:14
hughsaundersdiscussion and learning17:14
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eyerediskindiscissions at docs.google, then copypasted to wiki, then manually translated into rst->readthedocs?17:15
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hughsaundersOh I see, collaboration... yes makes sense to collaborate on goole docs then publish somewhere else17:16
boris-42hughsaunders but I think that learning should be in docs and wiki17:16
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msdubovGuys sorry have to leave now17:16
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ hi there17:16
boris-42msdubov see u later17:16
hughsaundersboris-42: yeah, I understand now, wasnt clear before17:16
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eyerediskinwe can collaborate on review.openstack, commenting CR's in docs/source/ like any other CR's17:17
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eyerediskinboris-42 hughsaunders ^17:18
boris-42eyerediskin yep probably we can17:18
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boris-42eyerediskin when it's related to the docs and not related to the new functionallity17:18
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hughsaunderseyerediskin: yeah another good option, like other projects are doing for specs17:18
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boris-42okay I think we can move to the next topic17:19
boris-42#topic ceilometer benchmarks updates17:19
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boris-42aswadrangnekar could you share with your plans17:20
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aswadrangnekarwe are on the last queries patch, waiting for merge17:21
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boris-42aswadrangnekar do you have other plans for new benchmarks that are not yet on review?17:21
aswadrangnekarapart from that there are few modification and tweks been submited (2 patches)17:21
boris-42aswadrangnekar but it's already on review=)17:22
aswadrangnekarok sorry i dint know that17:23
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boris-42aswadrangnekar I mean do you have plans to make new benchmarks (that are not published yet)17:23
boris-42aswadrangnekar I am going to review that one soon17:23
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aswadrangnekaras of now no17:23
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aswadrangnekarwe will be testing this scenarios on different databases for ceilometer and then might be we come up with more scenarios17:24
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aswadrangnekarbut its going to take some time to test it17:24
boris-42aswadrangnekar btw we are going to have special directory17:24
boris-42aswadrangnekar called users stories17:24
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boris-42aswadrangnekar https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95144/17:25
aswadrangnekarwe can add it, but can conform in next meet17:26
boris-42aswadrangnekar yep it will be nice17:26
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boris-42okay let's move to next topics17:26
boris-42#topic gates17:26
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boris-42eyerediskin could you share updates about gates17:26
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boris-42eyerediskin are you here?17:29
eyerediskinso we have several new jobs17:29
eyerediskinrally-cli and rally-dsvm-neutron17:30
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eyerediskin* almost have17:30
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eyerediskinrally-cli https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85738/17:30
eyerediskinit should work, but I cant check because og infra issues17:31
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eyerediskinand rally-dsvm-neutron https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97469/17:31
eyerediskinwill work after this merged ^^17:31
boris-42eyerediskin could you explain for others what is rally-cli17:31
eyerediskinrally-cli is tests written as usual unittests, but is is actually integrated tests17:32
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boris-42eyerediskin so we are going to test all our commands from cli in that stuff?17:33
eyerediskinsee last method "test_create_fromenv...17:33
eyerediskinall other tests may be done like this17:33
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eyerediskinboris-42: thats all17:35
boris-42eyerediskin and how about rtfm17:35
boris-42eyerediskin job17:35
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eyerediskinwe should merge this https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95524/17:36
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eyerediskinand then we got auto build docs on readthedocs17:37
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boris-42eyerediskin how to check that it works properly?17:37
eyerediskinI tested it on own repo https://github.com/redixin/rally17:37
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eyerediskinit should start build after patch is merged17:38
eyerediskin(docs build)17:38
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boris-42eyerediskin okay so why did you not put +2 ?17:38
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eyerediskinboris-42: I can't +2 own patch ^_^17:39
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boris-42eyerediskin lol http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/A487dNkNVGA/maxresdefault.jpg17:40
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tnurlygayanov__btw, what about the review for Neutron Networks Context support https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96300 ?17:40
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ gates are broken lol17:40
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ and as well we need to finish work on neutron gate17:40
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ to be able to test it in gates17:41
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ seems like it will be quite soon ready17:41
tnurlygayanov__ok... if I can help with it I'm ready to participate17:41
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tnurlygayanov__so, do we have bp or commits on review with fixed for neutron gates?17:43
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ btw why did you write neutron specific context17:43
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ why not using nova api for that stuff? so it will work in both cases?17:43
tnurlygayanov__because I'm used Neutron in my environment17:43
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ and?17:43
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ via nova api it will work in any case17:44
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boris-42tnurlygayanov__ with neutron only when end user is using neutron17:44
tnurlygayanov__boris-42 we can create routers/networks with Nova API?17:44
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tnurlygayanov__so, it is separate context, but it is easy to add/remove to the existing contexts in config17:45
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boris-42tnurlygayanov__ ?17:45
tnurlygayanov__and if we use the Neutron, we can just add this context to the task17:45
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ why not just having one context17:45
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ that will create networks via nova api17:45
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ that can be used in any case when we need it17:46
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tnurlygayanov__hm... I will investigate how we can do the same with Nova API17:46
boris-42tnurlygayanov__ cause if it is possible to do via Nova API its more common apporach17:47
boris-42and we should use it17:47
boris-42#topic unification of names17:47
*** openstack changes topic to "unification of names (Meeting topic: rally)"17:47
boris-42hughsaunders ping could you share news about this stuff?17:48
tnurlygayanov__boris-42, yes, but I'm not sure that it is possible to manage Neutron routers/networks via Nova API. I will check and update patch set.17:48
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boris-42hughsaunders here?17:49
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boris-42okay let's cover other topic17:51
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boris-42#topic complex types as args in sceanrios17:51
*** openstack changes topic to "complex types as args in sceanrios (Meeting topic: rally)"17:51
boris-42So today we merged quite big patch17:52
boris-42That adds support of type of args17:52
boris-42so we are able to specify not only image_id: uuid17:52
boris-42but something like image: {uuid: xxx} or image: {name: xxx} or image: {regex: regxxx}17:52
boris-42as well for flavors17:53
eyerediskinis there samples in doc/samples?17:53
hughsaundershey, unifiying names is wip, I hope yo get it done soon17:53
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boris-42https://review.openstack.org/#/c/86116/ eyerediskin  this is patch17:53
boris-42eyerediskin here is the sample https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/doc/samples/tasks/nova/boot-and-delete.json#L3-L1117:54
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boris-42so I think it is nice improvment17:54
boris-42#topic Next stuff to do17:54
*** openstack changes topic to "Next stuff to do (Meeting topic: rally)"17:54
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boris-42Okay there are couple of things that we are working now17:55
boris-421) support of pre created users context17:55
boris-422) support of success conditions in tasks17:55
boris-423) persisntace context17:55
boris-424) unification of naming stuff17:55
boris-42When we finish all this stuff we will bring rally to the next level=)17:56
boris-42as well I have thoughts about how to add support of running different methods17:56
boris-42at the same time17:56
boris-42I think I will write some documents17:57
boris-42about it17:57
boris-42#topic free discussion17:57
*** openstack changes topic to "free discussion (Meeting topic: rally)"17:57
boris-42if somebody has any questions17:57
boris-42it's right time17:57
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boris-42okay we should end meeting=)17:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun  3 17:59:52 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-06-03-17.00.html17:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-06-03-17.00.txt17:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-06-03-17.00.log.html17:59
dolphmayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:00
bknudsondolphm: hi18:00
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dolphmhenrynash: yeehaw?18:00
morganfainbergoh sorry o\18:00
ayoungI'm here18:00
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henrynashyeehaaaaaaawwww (british accent)18:00
ayoungYeee  Har18:00
ayoungIf it ends with an A sound, put an R on it18:00
henrynashis in baaaaaath18:01
ayoungso Florider is nawth of Cuber18:01
dolphmi'm not sure what this meeting is about anymore18:01
ayoungSorry, that is New English18:01
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stevemardolphm wishes this was more unusual, but it aint18:01
morganfainbergdolphm, i think we turned left at Albuquerque18:01
dolphm#startmeeting keystone18:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun  3 18:02:01 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:02
dolphm#topic keystone-specs18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "keystone-specs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
dolphm#info Add openstack/keystone-specs to your Watched Projects in gerrit, and start reviewing!18:02
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morganfainbergPlease review! Lets get specs approved!18:02
bknudsonso I think we're getting close to J118:03
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bknudsonshould we be getting things in for J1 rather than looking at specs for j2?18:03
morganfainbergbknudson, June 1218:03
dolphm#info All featurey/blueprinty/wishlisty changes will require an approved keystone-specs doc after juno-1 ends (June 12)18:03
bknudsonI don't know what we want to get into j118:03
bknudsonprobably compressed tokens18:03
morganfainbergbknudson, if things are slated for J1 those are priority *cough* compressed tokens18:03
topollove keystone-specs.  love the structure and organization18:03
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dolphm#topic Juno-1 (June 12)18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Juno-1 (June 12) (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:04
henrynashtopol: ++18:04
dolphm#link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/juno-118:04
morganfainbergbknudson, otherwise, it should be focused on specs so once J2 opens we can get moving.18:04
henrynashbknudson: multi-domain uuids18:04
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dolphmour juno-1 target list is fairly short, but compressed tokens is certainly at the top of the list18:04
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bknudsonah, also "Document v2 to v3 API migration strategy"18:04
ayoungcompressed tokens and revocation events are the two things left over from Icehouse.  But Revocation events are client only18:04
dolphmi'd like to see them be the default in devstack before we check that box as done18:04
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morganfainbergdolphm, we need to ensure everyone has updated minimum reqs to 0.9.0 of KSC18:05
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stevemardolphm, compressed tokens as default?18:05
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morganfainbergdolphm, but it's doable18:05
dolphmbknudson: i consider this to be a first step toward having a migration strategy (mostly the last section) https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96242/18:05
ayoungdolphm, devstack default to compressed tokens?18:05
dolphmstevemar: yes18:05
dolphmmorganfainberg: ++18:05
dolphmayoung: yes18:05
stevemardolphm, is there a patch?18:05
ayoungstevemar, Proof of concept only18:05
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ayoungneeds to get through unit tests etc18:05
stevemari mean a devstack patch18:05
ayoung#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/91145/18:05
dolphmstevemar: we don't even expose them in keystone yet^18:06
morganfainbergstevemar once it passes out unit tests we can open the devstack review18:06
bknudsonthe current poc makes compressed tokens the default provider18:06
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ayoungbknudson, true18:06
stevemarbknudson, thanks18:06
ayoungbknudson, I can remove that.18:06
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morganfainbergayoung, bknudson, i'm fine with that but i think we should make the default switch explicit if we're changing that.18:06
ayoungmorganfainberg, nah, lets get it in, then make things use it buy default18:07
morganfainbergand i think keystone should switch the default, not have a devstack "option"18:07
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ayoungmorganfainberg, two patches, then?18:07
morganfainbergayoung, ++ we change not devstack changing.18:07
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bknudsondevstack already has an option to set the token provider18:07
bknudsonso you can switch to uuid easily18:07
morganfainbergayoung, yeah, make sure it works, and then we work on flipping the switch.18:07
topolmorganfainberg I think devstack options are very helpful. Changing devstack config without them is a pain18:07
stevemaris someone on the devstack team aware of the impending change?18:08
morganfainbergayoung, in case we need to juggle things around in other projects.  we then aren't holding up support of compressed tokens because some project X is balking at it18:08
morganfainbergayoung, for some reasons18:08
morganfainbergbknudson, ++18:08
ayounglets get the PKIZ provider merged non-default, then people can test with devstack, and we can have the discussion about what to do after that18:08
bknudsonayoung: works for me.18:08
topoldevstack release on its own shcedule. is there really a dependency here?18:08
morganfainbergbknudson, i'm sorry i meant in devstack-gate, different thant devstack18:08
dolphmdevstack releases?18:08
topoloh, he meant the devstack-gate???\18:09
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bknudsonmorganfainberg: a new d-g job?18:09
bknudsonbtw, devstack does have stable/ releases, so I think they follow the regular openstack releases18:09
bknudsonstable branches18:10
dolphmyeah... it's a branch, not so much a release18:10
bknudsonthey don't release it, like as a pip download18:10
morganfainbergbknudson, no, just don't want to have to add options to dsg project to support flipping things around like this up front - argue if we need it as part of the matrix stuff after it "works" and we make it default on18:10
dolphmanyway, is there anything else to land in j1? this is the last reasonable chance to get attention on something new18:10
ayoungdolphm, yeah...18:11
ayoungthe sql migratiosn for extensions18:11
morganfainbergtopol, devstack-gate is the QA project that controls how tempest nodes etc (devstack) nodes are configured in check/gate18:11
henrynashdolphm: I’m tyring to land the multi-domain UUIDs18:11
dolphmayoung: link?18:11
bknudsonmight be nice to get https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70630/ in18:11
ayoung#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96326/18:11
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dolphmayoung: henrynash: target the bp's to j118:11
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henrynashdolphm: ahh. oops18:11
morganfainbergbknudson, ++ on the templated catalog v318:12
ayoungdolphm, I wrote that as a POC, but  there is no BP  or anything...it was a response to people complaining about the migrations not being run18:12
stevemar++ templated18:12
ayoungI guess there is no reason it can't wait til J218:12
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morganfainbergayoung, lets push that to j2.18:12
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morganfainbergno need to "rush" that.18:12
stevemarmorganfainberg, ++18:12
ayoungmorganfainberg, it does have a bug report associate with it, which is how I was addressing it18:12
ayoungI don't know if it calls for a BP,  dolphm 's call18:13
dolphmbknudson: ++18:13
dolphmayoung: bug is fine for that i think18:13
ayoungdolphm, https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/132426018:13
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1324260 in keystone "Always migrate the the db for extensions instead of conditionally" [Medium,In progress]18:13
dolphmayoung: i assumed you were referring to a bp18:13
morganfainbergayoung, i would say it's a bug. it's inconsistent schemas not massive overhaul18:13
ayoungso the general rule I've been going with is "if it is a default extension, it should be migrated by default"18:13
ayoungbut we've not had any default extensions that require migrations until fairly recently18:13
ayoungnew schemas for new extensions do not get migrated by default.18:14
ayoungHence the explicit list18:14
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bknudsonec2_extension_v3 s3_extension simple_cert_extension18:14
bknudsonare the default extensions18:14
ayoungbknudson, and those don't have migrations18:15
morganfainbergfrom a deployment standpoint, i just want to voice how crappy it is that to "enable" an extension i need to explicitly migrate it18:15
ayoungbut now oauth, endpoint_filter are promoted18:15
morganfainbergerm explicitly do a DB migration18:15
gyee_"default extensions" doesn't sound right, if they are enabled by default they are not extensions :)18:15
ayounggyee_, yes they are18:16
ayounggyee_, they are not part of the core API18:16
ayoungthey are endpoints enabled in keystone by default18:16
gyee_ayoung, I mean if they are enabled by default, they need to be core18:16
morganfainbergayoung, and hence the whole OpenStack arguemnt on why extensions suck (or not suck)18:16
gyee_simple as that18:16
ayoungso for Juno18:16
ayoung['endpoint_filter', 'federation', 'oauth1', 'revoke']18:16
dolphmbknudson: and trusts is so default it's hardcoded18:16
ayoungdolphm, trusts is not even in contrib18:16
bknudsondolphm: trusts isn't an extension by some definitions18:17
ayoungand it's migrations are part of common repo18:17
dolphmbknudson: it's implementation is not an extension, it is defined as an API extension18:17
bknudsonI'll have to make sure I handle it correctly in the v3 extensions advertisment18:17
ayoungmaking trusts an extension was a last minute decision.  It would have been done cleaner if it wasn't suggested 2 weeks after code freeze18:17
ayoungbut that horse is dead18:18
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morganfainbergayoung, there are ways to revite that horse... but not in scope of this conversation18:18
gyee_give it water18:18
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ayoungmorganfainberg, I'd be OK with that:  we really need to integrate all of the delegation mechanisms into one core api18:19
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stevemarayoung, yeah, mark that for Kilo18:19
morganfainbergayoung, i totally agree18:19
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* ayoung whistles18:19
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morganfainberghenrynash, K release18:19
ayoungOh, one other patch I want for J118:19
morganfainberghenrynash, as of yet unnamed18:19
stevemarK release18:19
henrynashah, just checking18:19
ayoung#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95989/18:20
ayoungKerberos as an extension name:18:20
ayounger method name18:20
dolphmlet's move on since we're way out of scope for j1 talk :)18:20
dolphm#topic Juno hackathon18:20
ayoungit means that we have a consistant way to say "this is Kerberos"  whether we go with "external" or Jose's approach18:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Juno hackathon (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:20
dolphm#link http://dolphm.com/openstack-keystone-hackathon-for-juno18:20
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ayoungdolphm, is ^^ OK as is?18:21
morganfainbergwoo geekdom!18:21
dolphmI finally got acknowledgement on the location: 112 East Pecan, San Antonio, Texas 7820518:21
ayoungmodulo jamielennox 's comments?18:21
lbragstadso for sure at Geekdom18:21
dolphmit's middle of downtown in a Geekdom event space18:21
* morganfainberg needs to go get approval for this trip now.18:21
dolphmso, book any hotel downtown!18:21
stevemaroh right, do we have hard dates?18:21
gyee_morgafainberg, shouldn't be a problem for you :)18:21
stevemarI was looking at hotels last night18:21
ayoungwhich is the preferred Hotel?18:22
dolphmstevemar: July 9-1118:22
henrynashgeeks road trip…excellent!18:22
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lbragstad#link https://www.google.com/maps/search/hotels+near+Geekdom+san+antonio+tx/@29.4285235,-98.4919432,17z/data=!3m1!4b118:22
stevemarI think Holiday Inn San Antonio Riverwalk 217 N St Mary's St is nearby, and affordable18:22
topolwhat was wrong with valencia?18:23
dolphmi suggested Hotel Valencia http://www.hotelvalencia-riverwalk.com/ only because rackspace has a preferred rate there that everyone *should* be able to take advantage of; it's also about 2 blocks from geekdom18:23
stevemarhenrynash, bknudson lbragstad topol - the one i mention is in our policy18:23
morganfainberggyee_, waiting on corp CC to arrive and then need to poke some people to get the sign off, but i'm sure it'll be easy18:23
stevemartopol, we're not at the "Mall" this time around18:23
henrynashstevemar: the man’s way ahead of me18:23
dolphmi'm told you just have to call to make the reservation, and tell them you're in town to visit rackspace18:24
topolstevemar we can get an exception if valencia is optimal. yes I know we are at geekdom18:24
topolbut if that works for everyone and we dont need an exception thats fine too18:24
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topolI'll get a rental car so we have one if we need it18:25
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morganfainbergtopol, neverlost!18:25
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bknudsontopol: you might need a rental bus for all of us18:26
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topolnext time...18:26
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topolstevemar can get one too18:26
lbragstadconversion van!18:26
morganfainberglbragstad, limo?18:26
dolphmthankfully downtown is full of one way streets, so it's impossible to get lost18:26
topolbut lets make sure we are in walking distance18:26
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topolwas the holiday in walking distance?18:27
dolphmlbragstad: careful with that google search-- geekdom has two locations downtown now18:27
dolphmlbragstad: one is their co-working space and the other is their event space18:27
topolif not let's do valencia and I can help with exceptions18:27
stevemardolphm, eerrr, which is the right address?18:27
lbragstaddolphm: that's the right one then?18:27
lbragstadoff pecan?18:28
dolphm112 East Pecan is correct18:28
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ayoungtopol, lets just all go with Valencia,  nive to have a common hotel for something like this18:28
topolI agree18:28
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dolphmthe wrong geekdom location is 110 East Houston18:28
* lbragstad noted18:29
morganfainbergdolphm,i've also been told there is a good place for whiskey around SA. adrian_otto was saying it was awesome -- so...18:29
stevemartopol, will fix exceptions for everyone!18:29
ayoungdolphm, is that for Keystone only, or Barbican as well?18:29
topolwrong geekdom??? how many are there?18:29
topolyes I will fix exceptions18:29
ayoungat Geekdom, I mean18:29
topolIBMer's at least18:29
dolphmmorganfainberg: the brooklynite is all i can think of18:29
morganfainbergdolphm, is that the one owned by a racker (not sure about former or not)18:30
dolphmayoung: working on barbican separately, but it should be M-Tu-W same space, same week18:30
dolphmmorganfainberg: uhh i dunno. the beer place we went to in january was a former racker (big hops)18:30
morganfainbergdolphm, i'll get infos.18:30
dolphmtopol: geekdom is expanding, quite quickly. two in SA18:30
dolphmtopol: (within a couple blocks of each other)18:31
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dolphm#topic Reviewing languishing reviews for abandonment / re-assignment18:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Reviewing languishing reviews for abandonment / re-assignment (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:31
dolphmmorganfainberg: o/18:31
morganfainbergok so if everyone wasn't aware auto abandonment of reviews is dead18:31
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ayoungdolphm, can we get this one for J1?  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/95989/18:32
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dolphmmorganfainberg: do we have a script to identify reviews to consider for abandonment?18:32
morganfainbergreviews will never auto-abandon, so we need to review (probably once a month / milestone/ something) the reviews that are lingering around18:32
stevemardolphm, i've been commenting on some18:32
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stevemardolphm, i think any core can actually mark it as abandoned?18:33
dolphmstevemar: thats true now18:33
dolphmwe can also Restore anything18:33
morganfainbergdolphm, at the moment no, but i think i can scrape up the infra script that used to abandon so we can run it locally18:33
morganfainbergbut since we can restore (all cores)18:33
morganfainbergand all cores can abandon18:33
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dolphmand i assume authors can still restore if core abandon?18:33
morganfainbergdolphm, yes18:33
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dolphmso we're not risking too much by removing stale things from the review queue18:34
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morganfainbergwe should clean up old reviews.  if a review is desired and has no movment, we need to reassign the work18:34
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morganfainbergi've been going through and cleaning up the ones i know for sure about (a couple)18:34
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ayoungdolphm, or does it need a full blueprint.18:34
morganfainbergbut it shoudn't be just one person sweeping reviews up18:35
dolphmayoung: you mean a spec?18:36
dolphmayoung: let's discuss after the meeting18:36
ayoungdolphm, yes, SPC and BP18:36
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dolphmmorganfainberg: next-review should make languishing reviews fairly easy to spot18:37
morganfainbergdolphm, as will reviewday18:37
bknudsonmorganfainberg: do we want to use the same rule as before? 1 week?18:37
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ayoungbknudson, that is kindof harsh18:37
bknudsonI agree18:38
ayoung2 weeks?18:38
morganfainbergonce a milestone, imo18:38
bknudsondoesn't seem like it costs much to have old reviews around.18:38
ayoungyou end up with a lot of "bring it back to life but not fix"  resubmits18:38
morganfainbergor twice a milestone?18:38
morganfainbergstart of milestone: abandon / reassign, middle - did we get anywhere on those / checkin18:38
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bknudsonstart of milestone seems like a good time18:39
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bknudsonor maybe at some cutoff before the milestone18:39
bknudsonto cull out the # of reviews to look at18:39
dolphmmorganfainberg: i'd rather this not be a significant recurring cleanup effort, but rather an ongoing one18:39
morganfainbergbknudson, sure.18:39
morganfainbergdolphm, i don't mind which way it goes, as long as we're doing it18:40
ayounglets go with one month18:40
bknudsonmonth works for me18:40
ayoungthat is roughly how long the milestones last18:40
dolphmafter a week or two of silence, we should be leaving review comments asking if the author is available to follow up, and if not, abandon18:40
bknudsontwo weeks also works18:40
dolphmbut the burden is on everyone to ping authors - bonus points if you want to pick up a patch for them :)18:40
morganfainberglets do 2 weeks no response, comment, 1 week later reassign/abandon18:41
dolphmayoung: i think they're supposed to average 6 weeks18:41
lbragstadmorganfainberg: can we write that down somewhere?18:41
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bknudsonI also like the idea of if someone isn't working on something that we want we should pick it up rather than abandon18:41
ayoungdolphm, Heh, it just feels like the Milestone one release is like a week after the summit, every single time18:41
lbragstadmorganfainberg: or point me to a spot and I can write something up18:41
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morganfainberg#info Abandonment/Reassign process: 2 weeks of no activity, ping author and ask for update, 1 week after ping (no response) review is up for abandonment or reassignment to an active contributor18:42
morganfainberglbragstad, ^ that work?18:42
lbragstadlol sure!18:42
dolphmlbragstad: it'll be in the meeting notes at least18:42
morganfainberglbragstad, we can put it up on wiki or in our contributing doc18:42
dolphm#topic IDP - User / Group Lookup and Policy Functionality18:42
*** openstack changes topic to "IDP - User / Group Lookup and Policy Functionality (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:43
dolphmmorganfainberg: o/18:43
morganfainbergreally quickly18:43
morganfainberg#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/93982/18:43
ayoungI think with the sahdow table it becomes:18:43
ayoungI have user ID18:43
ayoungI look in shadow table to find IdP18:43
morganfainbergthis review brought up an interesting proposition, do we hard-validate users and groups on grant creation18:43
morganfainbergright now v2 doesn't validate18:43
ayoungso question is:  what if it is not in the shadow table18:43
morganfainbergv3 does, but as a side effect fo the policy enforcement decorator18:44
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dolphmayoung: then it's not a valid ID?18:44
ayoungcan I assign to a user, based on userid without them being in the shadow table18:44
bknudsonV2 only has admin or public I think, no policy18:44
morganfainbergthe callback for enforcement that is18:44
henrynashshadow table?18:44
ayoungdolphm, so,  what if I am setting up a role for a user before thye hit the system18:44
morganfainberghenrynash, the unique id mapping table18:44
ayoungLDAP,  new guy is coming on board...18:44
dolphmbknudson: that binary state actually uses policy, lightly18:44
henrynashahh. you mean the one I’m proposing - Ok, got it18:44
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dolphmhenrynash: the mapping table18:44
ayoungyeah, yeah, should use a group, but readonly LDAP ....18:44
dolphmlookup table?18:45
morganfainbergwe just need to make the behavior consistent in apis18:45
dolphmmorganfainberg: ++18:45
morganfainbergdolphm, consistent ID proposal18:45
ayoungmorganfainberg, either we don;'t look up, or we need a way to prepopulate the lookup table18:45
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morganfainbergif we go with "don't validate" we need to rethink how policy works for the v3cloud enforcement style18:45
dolphmmorganfainberg: i'm just trying to remember how we were referring to the proposed table18:45
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morganfainbergif we go with validate, v2 needs to check and we should make it explicit18:45
ayoungI've been calling it the shadow user table18:45
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ayoungbut I think the official nam,e is IDMapping18:45
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morganfainbergdolphm, hm. Unified UserID :P18:46
ayounghenrynash, ^^ is that really a good name?  should be at least user_id_mapping18:46
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henrynashayoung: teh table is id_mapping….remember it has groups in it too18:46
dolphmhenrynash: should we not have two tables then?18:47
ayounghenrynash, maybe identity_mapping...I realize ID means identitifier, but it tends to be read as meaning id for any table...18:47
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ayoungdolphm, nah, so long as it has a type field, one table is better18:47
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henrynashdolphm: we could indeed…since we need to store the type of entity since its possible that a backend might be using a different name spec for users and groups and they could have the same ID18:48
ayoungjust like the role assignment table, makes joins easier18:48
dolphmayoung: explain "better"18:48
bknudsonI don't think indexes on type fields are very efficient18:48
ayoungwhat do we call it there? target is the project side...18:48
morganfainbergbknudson, unless the type is an int :P18:48
dolphmbknudson: ++ it just seems like an extra, unnecessary index18:48
dolphmmorganfainberg: is_user (tinyint)18:49
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* dolphm is slightly sarcastic ^18:49
bknudsonan int might be ok, but if every other row is a different type then there's no good way to index.18:49
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henrynashright now its an Enum18:49
ayoungthis is the assingment tablehttp://paste.openstack.org/show/82655/18:49
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ayoungwe could call it the actor table18:49
henrynashi knew that name would come back and bite me!18:50
bknudsonalthough I would expect lots more users than groups18:50
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bknudsonso maybe not a big deal in this case18:50
henrynashbknudson: ++18:50
ayoungtype      | enum('UserProject','GroupProject','UserDomain','GroupDomain')18:50
ayoungso enum ('User' 'Group'18:50
ayounghenrynash, I like actor18:50
henrynashayoung: that’s what i have in teh code today for it!18:50
morganfainbergso.. i know we need to solve the user id thing as well. i'd like to just make sure we solve what we want with policy and fixing v2/v3 policy post meeting so we can write it up/code it up/etc18:51
ayounghenrynash, I know, and I was supporting your approach18:51
morganfainberg(either accept the review that is posted or not enforce existence)18:51
henrynashayoung: bows head18:51
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morganfainbergdolphm, i think we're into henrynash's topic here. :)18:51
dolphmmorganfainberg: was just thinking that18:51
dolphmalthough i wasn't sure what the difference between the two was intended to be...18:52
dolphm#topic Cross-backend Unique User and Group Entity IDs18:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Cross-backend Unique User and Group Entity IDs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:52
dolphmhenrynash: o/18:52
henrynashso woudl encourage peopel to read the spec!18:52
morganfainbergdolphm, mine is just about policy enforcement consistency in absence of anything else.18:52
stevemari'm going to appoint henrynash to write up all the specs18:52
dolphm#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/9749218:52
dolphm#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74214/18:52
morganfainbergand user must/exist/not exist before grant assigned18:53
ayounghenrynash, is there some way to prepopulate a value in the actor table?18:53
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ayoungIf I need to do a role assignment, but the user hasn't logged in,  would a GET check in LDAP for the user and then add to the shadow table?18:53
henrynashwell, do we know he local identifiers?18:53
ayoungactore table?18:53
ayounghenrynash, yes18:54
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henrynashayoung: so any identity manger call that causes the backend entity to be read will populate the mappintable18:54
dolphmactore mensamque*18:54
ayounghenrynash, list_users?18:54
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ayoungthat could be expensive the first time it is run....18:55
ayoungis that OK?18:55
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henrynashwell I guess someone will hit it18:55
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henrynashdo we know the user name?18:55
henrynashthen just do a list with tehuser name as the filter18:56
ayounghenrynash, I think the only things that accept user name are authenticate and list users18:56
ayoungGEt takes userid18:56
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henrynashahh no - ther is a get user by name manager call18:56
ayoungin V#?18:56
henrynashdef get_user_by_name(self, user_name, domain_id):18:56
bknudsonIf I do a list all users will all the users get populated?18:57
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bknudsonin the mapping table18:57
henrynashbknudson: first, we insist that you at least qualify teh list with a domain_od18:57
ayounghenrynash, that is only called from an extension18:57
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henrynashayoung: teh get user byname?18:58
ayounghenrynash, I think so, yes18:58
* ayoung still confirming18:58
henrynashayoung: it’s in teh identity core manager18:58
bknudsonok, if I list all users in a domain then all the users for that domain get populated?18:58
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morganfainbergdolphm, ~2min18:58
henrynashbknduson: yes….18:58
dolphmyou can't actually list users from a federated source18:59
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henrynashdolphm: from LDAP yes, from federated no18:59
ayoungdolphm, we need a way to get a userid from a username for federation18:59
dolphmhenrynash: maybe and correct18:59
ayoungor at least for LDAP19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun  3 19:00:03 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-06-03-18.02.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-06-03-18.02.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-06-03-18.02.log.html19:00
henrynashpumpkind (poof)19:00
morganfainbergdolphm, 3 seconds off!19:00
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morganfainbergdolphm, :P19:00
jeblairinfra people?19:00
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dolphmmorganfainberg: my reminder was further off than that!19:00
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dolphmjeblair: checkout the Regular Attendees thing here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting19:01
jeblairdolphm: neat idea!19:01
morganfainbergjeblair, it's pretty awesome to get a ping for it :) works well19:01
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jeblairdolphm: i'm struggling very hard not to ping all of those people right now! ;)19:02
dolphmjeblair: i preseeded it with -core and it populated itself from there19:02
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jeblair#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun  3 19:02:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
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jeblair#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting19:02
jeblairagenda ^19:02
jeblair#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-05-27-19.00.html19:03
jeblairlast meeting ^19:03
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jeblairnothing from last meeting so19:03
jeblair#topic  manage-projects status (fungi)19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "manage-projects status (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
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jeblairfungi: are there any errors we should be looking out for still?19:04
jeblairi noticed we created a couple more projects recently19:04
fungilooks like the fix which i had proposed is no longer waiting on https://review.openstack.org/9419619:04
fungiso just needs reviewing/approving19:05
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/9468419:05
fungii haven't spotted any new failures though19:05
clarkbthere was the github failure to set account rights19:05
clarkbbut other than that I haven't seen anything19:05
fungiclarkb: oh, right. there was19:05
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fungithat we've so far attributed to github api call failures or throttling, but i don't know if anyone has gone digging in the puppet logs yet19:06
jeblairwe might see it if we approve all those xstatic changes19:06
fungiit's happened a couple times in the same pattern though, in as many months19:06
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fungiquite possibly19:06
anteaya16 repos in that xstatic patch19:07
SergeyLukjanovyeah, it'll a good test for manage-projects19:08
jeblairokay, so next time we see the github thing, we should probably start digging into the logs19:08
jeblair#topic  Review Third Party wiki templates (anteaya)19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Review Third Party wiki templates (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
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anteaya#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Template:ThirdPartySystemInfoSubst19:08
anteaya#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Template:ProgramsThirdPartySubst19:08
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anteayaso the first one is the one we looked at last week, for third party accounts19:09
anteayathe second one is new, meant for openstack programs19:09
anteayaif we are happy, I can get krtaylor to fill out one for third party19:09
jeblairanteaya: cool.  most of that looks good.  i'd suggest removing the mission statement as it's sort of duplicative19:09
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anteayaand perhaps jeblair will fill out one for infra19:10
anteayaas a seed for others19:10
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jeblairanteaya: nope, we're not a third party :)19:10
anteayaI can remove the mission statement19:10
fungiyeah, i think we discussed having the mission statement just replaced by a link to the program page19:10
anteayawe are an openstack program though19:10
jeblairfungi: ++19:10
anteayawhich is what the second template is for19:10
jeblairanteaya: ah, i see; though we have no third-party testing related to our program... i'm not sure it makes sense to have this for every program, but rather just for those that have 3rd party testing19:11
fungianteaya: one question though, what is the intended workflow here for third-party systems which are dedicated to only testing stackforge projects (you don't have to know the answer now, just worth thinking about--there are more than a few)19:11
anteayaright, I we do have a relationship with thrid party though19:11
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anteayain taht we oversee the struture and have a direct say in how that structure is built and managed19:12
anteayafungi: I don't know, I don't know how stackforge testing would differ from testing openstack projects19:12
anteayaI would need to talk to some maintainers of such an account19:12
jeblairanteaya: sure, but i don't think we have the kind of relationship that i see this page being used for19:12
anteayaI'll work with neutron to make a seed page19:13
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anteayaany other comments/corrections on these templates?19:14
anteayaI can work to have the seed pages up for review next week19:14
jeblairanteaya: lgtm, and thanks again!19:14
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* ttx lurks19:14
jeblair#topic  Formatting Automated Gerrit Account Names (anteaya)19:15
*** openstack changes topic to "Formatting Automated Gerrit Account Names (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:15
anteayame again19:15
anteaya#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/automated-gerrit-account-naming-format19:15
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anteayaso I have dumped what I have found about gerrit account names for automated accounts19:15
anteayawe discussed some keywords last week19:16
anteayaI need some more agressive guidance on how to seperate the groups19:16
anteayaand then to id which ones need to be renamed19:16
anteayaand then what process to rename19:16
jeblairanteaya: anything that votes (or is intended to eventually vote) in the verified colum is "{name} CI"19:17
jeblairanteaya: anything else automated is "{name} Bot"19:17
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anteayathat helps19:17
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anteayaokay so when we look at {name}19:17
anteayawhat are the options?19:17
SergeyLukjanov++ for CI/Bot naming19:17
SergeyLukjanovanteaya, there are company names and project names19:18
anteayawe have a group that needs 4 cinder ci accounts19:18
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anteayathat can get long19:18
SergeyLukjanovanteaya, we have sahara-ci (honestly it's still savanna-ci)19:18
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anteayayou do19:18
jeblairanteaya: i think most of those pass the sniff test; they seem fairly descriptive19:18
anteayaokay so we can grandfather these19:18
jeblairanteaya: oh, well, i think many of them should change19:18
fungiseems fine, then anyone wanting to filter all automated systems can just match on " (CI|Bot)$" in names i suppose19:18
clarkbfungi: yup19:18
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clarkbjeblair: just the descriptive name or the username too?19:19
anteayajeblair: many of the existing ones on the list should change?19:19
SergeyLukjanovfungi, it'll be useful I hope19:19
jeblairanteaya: i think we should be looking for something like "{company} {product} CI"19:19
anteayajeblair: great19:19
jeblairanteaya: or "{product} CI" or "{company} CI" if they are, er, a less diverse company.  :)19:19
fungii also think getting rid of "openstack" in third-party ci/bot names is advisable (i try to trim that out when i'm the one handling requests)19:19
SergeyLukjanovfungi, ++19:19
jeblairfungi: ++19:19
anteayayes, I agree that only we should be using openstack19:20
fungibut i do see some in the list, so they ought to get cleaned up in this process19:20
anteayalet me come up with a list of suggested revisions for the list for next week19:20
SergeyLukjanovand we need to rename it to openstack-ci (OpenStack CI)19:20
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clarkbdo we plan on updating name and username?19:20
clarkbor just the descriptive name?19:21
anteayaI think everything19:21
anteayapart of the issue is that name and username don't match19:21
clarkbhttps://review.openstack.org/Documentation/cmd-set-account.html won't update the username19:21
anteayalike brocade19:21
clarkbso username will require DB changes19:21
clarkbanteaya: ok19:21
anteayawe have brocade_jenkins and brocade_tempest for teh same account19:21
anteayathat is just confusing19:21
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anteayayes, that will be a step during the process of changing the names19:22
anteayaediting the db19:22
fungii don't think the usernames matter19:22
anteayaI would like them to be consistent19:22
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fungithey aren't displayed in the webui with their votes, and changing them instantly breaks teh remote systems which were logging in with them19:22
anteayaso if someone asks me about brocade_jenkins I know what account they are talking about19:23
fungiwhich is a mighty steep price for consistency19:23
clarkbfungi: good point19:23
fungigerrit already makes sure they're unique, so i think that should be sufficient19:23
anteayado we have any control over how they set their usernames?19:23
SergeyLukjanovpersonally I'd like to see username-displayedname consistence, but price - break all 3rd party, edit db manually19:24
anteayaso that at the very least in future the usernames and account names can match up?19:24
fungiwe can assign them in the future19:24
anteayaI can settle for that19:24
fungijust need to make sure that's part of the process19:24
* anteaya nods19:24
SergeyLukjanovcould we always resolve username to display name?19:24
fungithere are gerrit api calls which can do that19:25
fungii believe19:25
SergeyLukjanovlike russellb's reviewstats shows usernames19:25
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anteayareviewstats is offline19:25
anteayaI think I have enough to work on this and come back next week with some suggestions19:25
russellbnot sure it's worth publishing anymore, fine if people want to run locally, but stackalytics has a better UI anyway19:25
clarkbhttps://review.openstack.org/Documentation/rest-api-accounts.html#get-account yup19:25
anteayarussellb: I liked yours better19:26
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SergeyLukjanovclarkb, thanks19:26
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jeblairrussellb: i use it; i find examining disagreements to be important19:26
SergeyLukjanovso, we should have no issues with it19:26
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russellbyou guys seen http://stackalytics.com/report/contribution/nova-group/30 ?19:26
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clarkbrussellb: there isn't anythin like that for infra last I looked19:27
clarkb(probably does exist it just isn't navigable)19:27
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anteayarussellb: I hadn't before, I still like yours better, simpler and I like text19:27
russellbclarkb: http://stackalytics.com/report/contribution/infra-group/3019:27
pleia2I had chatted with anteaya a couple weeks ago about hosting it somewhere in infra19:27
jeblairrussellb: nice; though i actually have reviewstats _output_ the disagreements so i can read them; and i also make lots of ad-hoc groups.19:27
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russellbah, cool19:27
pleia2then other things came up, I think I was supposed to follow up with russellb to see if he wanted us to ;)19:27
russellbwell i can fix the hosted stats if enough people really care ... I think it may be something with the upgrade, i dunno, i haven't messed with it19:28
mordred_phonejeblair: we could likely get stackaltics to do that too19:28
russellb+100000 to hosting it in infra19:28
russellbif people want it19:28
jeblairanteaya: so i think that's it for the account name topic19:28
russellbjust never got around to doing the work to get it hosted myself19:28
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anteayajeblair: yes19:28
pleia2russellb: cool19:28
jeblairi think the horizon repo topic is left over from last week19:28
jeblairso next up19:28
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jeblair#topic  Release git-review 1.2419:28
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jeblairi don't know who added that19:28
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jeblairi'm not sure if it was intended as an imperative19:29
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clarkbjeblair: do it now ! :P19:29
jeblairlike, adding it to the wiki page will cause it to happen19:29
clarkbI am on board with a release19:29
* ttx hacks up a irc-to-tag script19:29
clarkbdoes the https functionality have feature parity ish with ssh now?19:29
jeblairfungi: ?19:29
anteayaha ha ha19:29
jeblairttx: wiki -> irc -> tag19:30
clarkbI think that is the one item that may be nice to have in before doing a release but it isn't critical either19:30
fungiyep, i'll go ahead and cut one. did we want to get the -W option reviewed and merged for 1.24 as well?19:30
clarkbfungi: there was enough commenting on that chnage that I didn't expect it to merge quickly19:30
fungii think i added it and maybe forgot to add (fungi) on the line19:30
clarkbbut I didn't look at it after the first patch19:30
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ttxjeblair: as soon as I'm finished with my IRC actions -> RememberTheMilk gateway19:30
fungii was letting the dust settle on it but need to revisit19:30
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* ttx looks forward to not having to ad LANG=C every time he uses git-review19:31
anteayafungi added it: https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting&diff=prev&oldid=5384119:31
mordred_phonettx speak moar english19:31
jeblairfungi: is the '-W' option an openstackism?19:31
fungianteaya: yeah, i remember adding it, was just admonishing myself for forgetting the nick tagline19:31
ttxmordred: I realized in Jerusalem that French should be attempted first19:31
anteayafungi: ah19:32
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clarkbjeblair: yes19:32
mordred_phonejeblair: yah.19:32
fungijeblair: good point, it's for setting workflow +1 and its docs mention it only works with a gerrit configured for that label19:32
jeblairclarkb: :(19:32
fungier, workflow -119:32
jeblairwould be neat if that could be generalized, but i don't have any _good_ ideas off the top of my head for that19:32
fungiyeah, i'll see if any spring to mind19:32
clarkbjeblair: maybe a .gitreview value to set on -W19:33
fungipossibly, followed by a mass patchbomb to all projects in our gerrit19:33
jeblairclarkb: heh, that's going to be a fun 297 patches to merge19:33
fungii can take that up19:33
clarkbor make it default to what we do19:33
clarkband let others override that way19:33
fungithat would then be an openstackism19:33
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fungii'm more in favor of having it default to off19:34
fungianyway, that can be taken up in the review19:34
fungino need to waste meeting time on it19:34
jeblairi mean "git review --label='Work In Progress'" works but isn't exactly convenient.19:34
jeblairfungi: true.19:34
SergeyLukjanovconfig file for WIP label?19:34
jeblairfungi: so, maybe cut 1.24 without wip?19:34
jeblairto make ttx happy19:34
fungijeblair: yeah, i think so19:34
SergeyLukjanovjeblair, ++19:35
SergeyLukjanovnot only ttx :)19:35
fungiwip can be considered for 1.2519:35
jeblairSergeyLukjanov: ;)19:35
jeblairsounds good19:35
jeblair#topic  Fedora/Centos7 Plans (ianw)19:35
fungii've been using current master long enough i'm pretty sure it's sane (plus, we do have some testing on it as well)19:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Fedora/Centos7 Plans (ianw) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:35
ianwhi, so the f20 job for devstack has been pretty reliable19:35
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ianwso i'm looking at getting it on the path to voting19:36
ianwthe first thing is getting it in multiple clouds19:36
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jeblairwas the issue that hpcloud didn't have a base image?19:36
ianware we fully moved to the new hp cloud that has f20 images?19:36
clarkbhpcloud only has f17 iirc19:36
fungiianw: we are19:36
clarkbeven in 1.119:37
jeblair| 831fa6a5-1ca5-42ea-bd41-4cbebf01085a | Fedora 20 Server 64-bit 20140407 - Partner Image                                   | ACTIVE |19:37
jesusaurusclarkb: theres a partner image19:37
clarkbah another partner image19:37
* anteaya has lost power once already, it could happen again anytime19:37
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jeblairso most of our "run on new image" work is waiting on dib/glance in nodepool19:38
jeblairbut since we already have this working on f20...19:38
jeblairi don't see a reason for this work to block on that.19:38
clarkbyup the unbound change to make dib work needs approval I had planned on doing that today but we are still underwater on the zuul/nodepool stuff19:38
clarkbjeblair: wfm19:38
ianwthat's my next question; what is the status of the dib work?19:38
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fungiianw: increasing review priority for me this week, assuming nodepool settles down for us19:39
clarkbianw: there are patches up for review. We need a small change to puppet which is ready for approval we just need time19:39
clarkbianw: then its on to reviewing the changes that actually marry dib and nodepool19:39
jeblairis there a nodepool glance change yet?19:39
clarkbmordred_phone: ^19:39
ianwclarkb: ok, i might ping you outside meeting time to get fully up to speed19:39
ianwso the other thing, thinking forward to centos7 release, i think that's going to be the best long-term base for rpm testing19:40
* jeblair assumes mordred's seatback and tray tables are in the upright position19:40
ianwpresumably, the dib work will be the way to deploy centos7?19:40
fungiianw: any eta on that upstream?19:40
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clarkbianw: yes I would expect to do trusty and centos7 via dib19:41
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ianwfungi: i think "soon"19:41
fungirsn... got it19:41
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jeblairfungi: what was your question?19:41
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fungijeblair: i was wondering when centos 7 was due for release19:42
jesusaurusis centos7 going to be used for infra, or just for testing? should i add a puppet-apply test for f20 and/or centos7?19:42
jeblairfungi: ah, gotcha19:42
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jeblairjesusaurus: i think we will be in no hurry to move our centos6 servers to 719:42
clarkbjeblair: we will likely only use fedora for testing never for infra19:42
clarkber jesusaurus ^19:42
fungijesusaurus: i expect we would be likely to use it in places where we need it, but yeah, no need to upgrade just for the sake of it19:42
clarkbso the value of testing on fedora 20 is minimal when it comes to that test19:43
ianwso, in conclusion, i should test out the hp f20 partner image with the idea of bringing it it into nodepool?19:43
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jeblairianw: i think so19:43
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clarkbyup run the build scripts on it and see if it looks happy19:43
clarkbthen we can add the image to nodepool19:43
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jeblaircentos7 should probably wait for the dib stuff to land (and, also, centos7)19:44
ianwand i will reach out to clarkb about the dib work and that will be the base for centos719:44
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clarkbianw: sounds good19:44
ianwjeblair: yeah, just want to be as ready as possible when it does land :)19:44
ianwok, thanks, no more on that topic from me19:45
jeblairianw: cool, thanks!19:45
jeblair#topic  Consistency in acl reviews (anteaya)19:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Consistency in acl reviews (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:45
anteaya#link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/owner:%22Dan+Bode%22+file:%255E.*/acls/.*+NOT+status:abandoned,n,z19:45
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anteayaapologies in advance if I lose power again19:45
anteayaso I would like to review the reviewing of this set of patchs19:45
anteayaspecifically the acl file reviews19:45
anteayagoing back of these I realize I was inconsistent, so I need to address that and be more consistent19:46
anteayabut the part I wanted to discuss19:46
anteayaand I do wish sdague and zaro were here19:46
anteayais that on one of the patches, dan got -1'd for editing the file the way I had asked him to edit19:46
anteayawhich I find embarassing, personally19:47
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anteayahe got -1'd twice19:47
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zarohere.  sorry i forgot about meeting.19:47
clarkbI don't think it is embarrasing. It is definitely inefficient.19:47
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clarkbwe can hash out these disagreements without makeing the author go back and forth19:47
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jeblairanteaya: it definitely wasn't due to a lack of accurate reviewing on your part; it was because the actual issue is very unclear19:47
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anteayaif I am reviewing a file poorly, I would like to know and to improve19:48
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anteayalet's see if we can get some clarity19:48
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anteayatwo things I saw19:48
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anteayarequire contributor agreement = true19:48
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anteayaand the [project] stanza19:48
* anteaya notes the howling wind outside19:49
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anteayaanyone with any thoughts?19:49
jeblairin order to avoid wild swings on the CLA issue, i think we should avoid trying to decide it ourselves early...19:49
anteayajeblair: I agree19:49
jeblairit's an unanswered legal and policy question, and will likely be so for quite some time19:49
anteayawhat should we do for now?19:49
fungilong ago i stopped -1'ing patches for cruft where people are cargo-culting no-op default values19:49
jeblairso i think the approach of not changing our existing projects, and also not requiring the cla for projects that are split from projects that don't require the cla is the closest thing we have to keeping the 'status quo'19:50
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anteayaokay, so in this case referencing config.config since that is the parent acl of this change series19:50
anteayaI can follow that19:50
fungithat's basically what i've done as well19:50
anteayaI will do that too, or ask if I can't figure out the parent19:51
anteayais [project] cruft?19:51
anteayaI had thought it is19:51
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fungii'm not sure i understand your question19:51
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clarkbthe active = true bit is19:52
anteayain the acl file, the [project] stanza19:52
clarkbor is it status = active19:52
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clarkbwhatever that line is19:52
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anteayastatus = active19:52
jeblairanteaya: it's not necessary, certainly.  i think fungi was saying that it doesn't matter either way, so no use going back and doing another patchset about it19:52
clarkbbut it doesn't hurt to have it either and is probably not worth a -119:52
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jeblairanteaya: what we might want to do is remove all refs from our docs and then merge a patch that removes it from all acl files19:52
SergeyLukjanovclarkb ++19:52
anteayaokay, I will ignore it then if it is in the file19:52
jeblairanteaya: then we might stop the cargo culting19:52
fungiright, i need to update my current cleanup patch series, but i think it's something we solve by fixing all the existing acls in one go so people stop copying around unnecessary stuff19:53
jeblairfungi: oh you've already started on that :)19:53
clarkbfungi: agreed19:53
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clarkbjeblair: yup there is a series of WIP changes19:53
fungii've already git it basically scripted19:53
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anteayaokay, so I will ignore it for now if it is there19:53
SergeyLukjanovI'm still thinking on yaml-based acls, hope to publish spec someday19:53
fungito make it repeatable and better able to weather rebase hell or race conditions in reviewing existing changes19:53
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anteayaI don't usually suggest the refs/tags/* line in a file that doesn't have it19:53
anteayaI figure if people want tags they will know to include it19:54
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SergeyLukjanovI'm trying to suggest tags or smth else when see that folks most probably would like to have it19:54
fungiour documentation should suggest reasonable things, and then we should spot when something is required to be added to the acl by implication from jobs they may be adding or similar evio\dence19:54
anteayamaybe I need to know more about tags then19:55
clarkbfungi: I think a large problem is a lot of people doing this have zero experience with our infra and gerrit19:55
anteayaclarkb: +19:55
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clarkbthey are told to stackforge or do $thing with openstack and really don't grok what they need19:55
clarkbso suggestions may help that19:56
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fungiright. if a project is adding release jobs but has no tag section in their acl for example, then it might merit mentioning (to find out if they really meant to add the jobs, or require the acl addition)19:56
clarkbmaybe a "So you wanna stackforge" doc19:56
jeblairclarkb: the existing stackforge doc could be expanded19:56
clarkbjeblair: ya19:56
jeblair#topic  Open discussion19:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:57
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jeblair#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Qa_Infra_Meetup_201419:57
jeblairfor anyone going to the meetup, could you please sign up on that page ^19:57
* SergeyLukjanov remembering the time when I've proposed the sahara addition to stackforge CR19:57
pleia2I have the "not quite production" zanata puppet files from Carlos, will be looking through them and hope to have some kind of maintainability report by next meeting (if you've been following the thread on list, it's kind of tricky)19:58
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jeblairpleia2: i'm sort of surprised.  i guess at the summit they didn't realize we run free software here?19:59
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pleia2jeblair: redhat does all kinds of open source, you just need a license for delivery and updates ;)19:59
pleia2sorry, that's probably inapproprite, I'm just frustrated19:59
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zarohad a question about private gerrit for security reviews bug 108310120:00
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1083101 in openstack-ci "Set up private gerrit for security reviews" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108310120:00
jeblairpleia2: if we can't run it, pootle still seemed like a good option; the delta between it and zanata was small, and we have people who might actually hack on it.20:00
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zarodo we want to continue to make that happen?20:00
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pleia2jeblair: noted, I'll see how far I get this week we'll go from there20:00
fungizaro: oh, right, i asked the rest of the vmt. it's still desirable for us20:00
jeblairi'm out next week, i'll be completely unreachable20:00
Ajaegerpleia2, your work on a transifex replacement is appreciated. Just heard today some comments that transifex has some problems - we might have lost some translations ;(20:00
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jeblairand i think we're at time20:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun  3 20:01:16 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:01
pleia2Ajaeger: thanks for saying so, hope it's not too bad20:01
jeblairthanks everyone!20:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-06-03-19.02.html20:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-06-03-19.02.txt20:01
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-06-03-19.02.log.html20:01
ttxAnyone here for the TC meeting ?20:01
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ttxmarkmc, annegentle, mordred, vishy, markmcclain, jaypipes, sdague : around ?20:02
Kiallttx: I believe mordred is on a flight20:02
* ttx suspects that markmc and markmcclain won't be around. annegentle is away on vacation20:02
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ttxKiall: what kind of an excuse is that20:02
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Kiallttx: a terrible one, I know. There will be repercussions.20:03
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ttxbut then we have quorum20:03
Ajaegerannegentle is on vacation this week20:03
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ttxso let's start20:03
ttx#startmeeting tc20:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun  3 20:03:41 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:03
ttxHere is our agenda for today:20:03
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee20:03
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ttxthe markmcs are coming20:04
ttx#topic Designate incubation request20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Designate incubation request (Meeting topic: tc)"20:04
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-May/000679.html20:04
markmc(connectivity may be spotty for me, sorry)20:04
ttxKiall: o/20:04
KiallHi ttx :)20:04
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ttxWe have a work document at:20:04
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DesignateIncubationQ&A20:04
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ttxalso Kiall just posted a corresponding programs.yaml change at:20:05
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markmcclainSame for me too20:05
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97609/20:05
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ttxSo let's work from the etherpad20:05
devanandattx: should we discuss the program application at the same time?20:05
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KiallShould Q's be answered in the etherpad, or here?20:06
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ttxdevananda: yes20:06
ttxcan't really accept one without the other20:06
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russellbKiall: i think we should discuss here, and take notes in etherpad20:07
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markmcclainReally I think that we can accept the project and then discuss the home program20:07
ttxthere were a few questions posted in the etherpad inline20:07
Kiallrussellb: OK20:07
devanandamarkmcclain: the project application includes wording that it should join the designate program. so we can't accept the application as-is without discussing the program as well20:07
ttxsomeone asked "    What is the plan for deprecating DNS support in nova?"20:08
mikalThat's me20:08
russellbwould the designate team be willing to lead the effort to do that nova work?20:08
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russellbit's not going to happen otherwise, i suspect20:08
KiallOkay - mikal: Ideally, nova's in-built DNS features will be deprecated, with a plugin provided to proxy API calls until it can be removed.20:08
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mikalKiall: yes, but who will do that work?20:08
mikalKiall: I think its a good thing to do, but we need someone to sign up20:08
devanandaKiall: and will you provide an upgrade/migration path?20:09
russellb(see above question, heh)20:09
mikalKiall: I would be surprised if anyone is using the current DNS support, but we need to treat it like any other deprecated feature20:09
markmcmikal, do you consider it required in order to graduate designate, or ?20:09
Kiallmikal: We're (designate-core) happy to take on the work of building the proxy etc20:09
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Kiallmikal: agreed - I know of nobody actively using the feature.20:09
russellbmarkmc: i think it fits under our deprecation of duplicated functionality clauses in our requirements20:09
mikalmarkmc: I think we do need to do this to graduate20:09
ttxKiall: could you explain why you ended up needing a V2 ?20:09
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ttx(mostly curious)20:10
markmcif we think no-one is using it, I think we're doing the process-for-the-sake-of-process thing again20:10
markmcif no-one is using it, deprecate it and later just remove it20:10
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mikalmarkmc: how do we prove no one is using it though?20:10
mikalmarkmc: I know people who have _wanted_ to use it20:10
jeblairi think someone replaced half the etherpad with the letter 'c'.20:10
barclaacI'd agree with markmc - if noone is using...20:10
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mikalmarkmc: they might have succeeded without me realizing20:10
Kiallttx: Sure - So we have a few things we wanted to do in V2 - First are foremost was to have an API that didn't allow end-users to violate the DNS RFCs, so it's introduced the RecordSet concept.20:10
russellbjeblair: lol.20:11
markmcmikal, warn in the deprecation notice that it will be removed, wait for someone to scream20:11
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mikalttx / Kiall: can we stay on the nova thing for a bit longer please?20:11
Kiallttx: The second was wanting to have a place to store information related to groups of records for future features such as GeoIP, Weighted round robin etc20:11
ttxjeblair: I trust you'll restore a complete version :)20:11
jeblairttx: i'll try20:11
Kiallmikal: Sure20:11
russellbit was sarob20:11
russellbcould have him just hit undo ...20:12
ttxmikal: sure -- was just parallelizing20:12
mikalmarkmc: because users lag trunk, we still risk people discovering their favourite feature is gone ell after its too late20:12
clarkbjeblair: there is an admin api query to get the data from an older version20:12
clarkbjeblair: you can then splat that in20:12
jeblairokay, now all the type just got huge20:12
russellbtime slider works too20:12
Kiallmikal: designate-core are happy to take on the work of implementing the shim inside of Nova20:12
ttxKiall: ok, thx!20:12
mikalKiall: that's what I want to hear, and I'm now completely happy with that element20:12
mikalKiall: thanks20:13
KiallNo problem20:13
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mikalIs it safe to edit the etherpad to put that there?20:13
devanandaif we're going to require deprecation plans as policy when replacing features, we should do that for dns as well. "we dont know if anyone is using it" is not a valid reason20:13
russellbit was already there i thought20:13
mikalrussellb: the etherpad keeps changing on me as they revert20:13
russellbyeah ... it *was* there ...20:13
Kialldevananda: agreed, even if there are 0 people using it, the standard policy of removal over several releases should always apply.20:13
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mikal(Yeah, that was the sigh before. Its an etherpad sign, not a designate sigh)20:14
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ttxsomeone is ethertrolling us20:14
sdaguettx or using internet explorer20:14
KiallOkay next Q was: <ttx> Kiall: could you explain why you ended up needing a V2 ?20:14
ttxOther concerns on the project side ?20:14
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KiallSo we have a few things we wanted to do in V2 - First are foremost was to have an API that didn't allow end-users to violate the DNS RFCs, so it's introduced the RecordSet concept.20:15
russellbjust a general, how would you summarize how the project has evolved and matured since the previous application?20:15
sdagueso regardless of the etherpad, comments in looking at designate. Activity and diversity are currently better than 2 of 3 of our incubated projects (only Ironic is higher)20:15
KiallThis was very breaking change, so needed a version bump.20:15
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KiallThe second was wanting to have a place to store information related to groups of records for future features such as GeoIP, Weighted round robin etc - RRSet's give us that place.20:15
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KiallFor example, RRSet 1 for EU users, RRSet 2 for US users, RRSet 3 for everyone else.20:16
ttxKiall: makes sense, thx20:16
devanandaKiall: in reading the code this morning, i spotted a few things i consider shortcomings -- it's not using common db code (neither oslo.incubator nor oslo.db), and it's not using alembic yet. also, there are some "objects" that look like a very early version of the nova rpc object code.20:16
russellbin general, things look better all around from what i see so far20:16
devanandaKiall: do you have plans to move to common db code, alembic, etc?20:16
Kiallsdague: I believe the biggest thing is more groups and developers involved.20:16
sdagueKiall: actually, that was a compliment :)20:16
vishydoes the nova dns code even work?20:16
Kialldevananda: Yes - oslo.db is something we haven't had cycles for yet, but ekarlso has been itching to do it :)20:16
sdagueyou guys are already performing above some of our incubated projects, so that's goodness20:17
KiallI suspect as part of that, we'll move to the oslo migrate code.20:17
ttxvishy: ask the guy who wrote it. Oh wait20:17
russellbvishy: not sure, doubt it20:17
mikalvishy: I had it working a year or so ago20:17
ekarlsowell, I can volunteer to switch to alembic and o.db20:17
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devanandaKiall: glad to hear it. ya'll have good integration with many other oslo utils, so that one stood out to me :)20:17
ekarlsoit should be *hopefully* a trivial change...20:17
mikalvishy: I don't know if its drifted since then20:17
Kiallekarlso: famous last words20:17
ttxekarlso: that would be a graduation requirement, not an incubation prerequisite anyway20:17
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* jaypipes has concerns about designate-core pushing reviews through after legitimate review -1 comments about not having unit tests for added code.20:18
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ekarlsottx: are these libraries ready yet ? last when I checked they where still in beta ish state ?20:18
sarobwhat happened?20:18
devanandaekarlso: what ttx said ^ -- I was checking to see where it was on your plans20:18
ekarlsodevananda: ok boss20:18
dhellmannjaypipes: that is concerning20:18
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Kialljaypipes: I do agree, and I know I was among them20:18
mugsieand me20:19
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russellbso .. why'd you do that?  :)20:19
Kialljaypipes: The current method of implementing backends is currently undergoing change, significantly simplifying them, and hopefully making them much easier to test.20:19
russellbor are you saying "yeah we screwed up, we agree, and we'll do better" ?20:19
KiallOur current backends pretty much all lack test - It's literally the biggest gap in out testing.20:19
ttxlooks like we identified another key area for improevement20:20
jaypipesKiall: understood. It's a concern of mine that sounds like you're aware of it and are tightening your core review requirements, which is great to hear.20:20
sdaguejaypipes: you have an assessment of where designate stands on test coverage relative to other projects?20:20
Kiallrussellb: yes - "yeah we screwed up, we agree, and we'll do better" is accurate20:20
ttxI don't think that's an incubation blocker as long as everyone agrees that was bad practice and will correct it20:20
jaypipessdague: no, sorry I do not.20:20
russellbk, fine with me then :)20:20
Kiallrussellb: and hopefully something the current cycle of changes can improve on20:20
russellbttx: agreed20:20
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jaypipesttx: yes, agree completely.20:20
jaypipesttx: I was just raising it as a concern I had had.20:20
dhellmannttx: agreed, but maybe we need a note to follow-up for the graduation review20:21
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Kialljaypipes: I'd be surprised if it wasn't raised :)20:21
ttxjaypipes: thanks for raising it -- I for one did not look deep enough to uncover that20:21
* jaypipes readily acknowledges early Glance review frontiers were similarly gnarly ;)20:21
sdaguethe devstack job proposed looks like it's sufficient for our incubation threshold. I'd like to see it land and run before we actually vote.20:21
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Kiallsdague: the same devstack plugin run as a 3rd party test20:21
jeblairKiall: when it lands will you stand down the 3rd party test rig?20:21
sdagueKiall: ah, pointer to results?20:21
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KiallYes, it will be shutdown straight away20:22
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Kiallsdague: and
KiallHave any Q's been missed?20:23
devanandaKiall: what's the approximate coverage of your API by the proposed tempest tests?20:23
sdagueKiall: I don't think the exercises are actually running there?20:23
sdaguedevananda: there are not tempest tests20:23
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russellbdevananda: that's more of a graduation requirement20:23
ttxsdague: so shall we delay until the devstack job is landed ?20:23
devanandasdague: ah ... that explains why i couldn't find it :)20:23
Kialldevananda: tempest, last I looked, didn't support plugins and won't accept non-incubated project tests20:23
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KiallOne of the HP QA guy's has offered to implement tests once they will be accepted.20:24
sdaguettx: we vote offline now right? I'll just put my -1 until we get the job landed20:24
ttxsdague: ok20:24
sdaguefrom what I see, it's all basically there20:24
sdaguejust want all the parts to come together20:24
ttxOK, let's switch to the program discussion20:24
Kiallsdague: the exercises are ran, search for "designate domain-create" in the logs.20:24
ttxI support the creation of a separate program, personally20:24
Kiallconsole logs*20:24
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russellbttx: same here20:24
jeblairttx: +120:24
ttxsince I don't see overlap with the networking/neutron crew20:25
ttxno point in forcing them to live under the same roof and delegate decisions to neutron PTL20:25
russellbneutron has enough to deal with right now, too20:25
ttxAny other questions on the Designate topic ?20:25
anteayaneutron doesn't need more meetings20:25
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Kiallttx: Agreed, merging of the two teams seems unlikely to succeed in the near team20:25
sdaguettx +120:26
KiallAnd - I don't personally believe there is scope overlap between Designate and Neutron.20:26
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devanandattx: +120:26
jeblairKiall: i agree with that as well20:26
russellbwas anyone arguing the opposite?20:26
zanebthe closest thing to Designate in OpenStack is actually the Keystone catalog, not Neutron20:26
ttxIf no more questions - the concile will retreat and vote on gerrit. Expect white smoke soon20:26
dhellmannrussellb: there was a brief discussion on the ML20:26
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russellbdhellmann: OK20:26
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sdaguehonestly, after thinking about it more, I actually think one of the neutron challenges might be that there is too much in that one program.20:26
russellbsdague: +120:27
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ttxsdague: +120:27
markmcclainThe scope creep is that designate and neutron have L7 services20:27
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ttxisn't trove also L7 ?20:27
sdaguepersonally I think designate fits a very sizable hole that we've had for a long time, and am happy to see it coming forward20:27
dhellmannmaybe we should address that by restricting the layers that are part of neutron's scope through a change to the mission statement?20:27
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zanebsdague: +120:28
barclaacdhellmann: +120:28
jeblairsdague: it's the last thing the infra team is using proprietary apis for20:28
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markmcclainsdague: the idea has been floated spinning out a few services once the internal apis are fixed20:28
ttxOK, we need to move on20:28
ttxLet the final discussion happen on the review20:29
KiallThanks all :)20:29
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ttx#topic Election stats and review discussion20:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Election stats and review discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:29
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-May/000678.html20:29
ttxanteaya: want to introduce the topic ?20:29
anteayathere are a few more links as well20:29
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russellb+1 to writing down some general policy and guidance about this20:29
ttxI'll post them20:29
anteayathe first is the numbers etherpad20:30
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/electoral-discussion-May-2014-numbers20:30
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/electoral-discussion-May-2014-email-summary20:30
anteayait has the history of all of our elections20:30
anteayayou can see the ptl elections are healthy with 43% or better participation20:30
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anteayathe tc elections need some examination20:30
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anteayawe were at 33% and we are dropping20:31
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anteaya29.7% last tc election20:31
ttxI disagree wit hno election on Sept 201220:31
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anteayawe need a strong participation rate20:31
* ttx digs data20:31
anteayattx: great, I got that from the wikilinks20:31
eglynnBTW it's hard to quantify the effect on average turnout of the uncontested PTL elections20:31
anteayaplease do update20:31
anteayaeglynn: I didn't try20:31
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anteayaany comments on the numbers?20:32
jeblairanteaya: though as you point out, the absolute numbers are increasing20:32
russellbi wonder how well the ATC community understands the role and ongoing activities of the TC?20:32
anteayahave I made any errors?20:32
markwasheglynn: +120:32
markmcagree the low turnout for TC election is concerning20:32
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anteayajeblair: yes, they are20:32
russellbif people don't really understand what we do, they're certainly not going to care enough to vote20:32
markmcclainI think that with a little targeted marketing we could increase turnout20:32
anteayarussellb: good point, I have no data on this20:32
ttxTC Sept 2012 election = http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_019fda1f0dd037a220:32
markmcrussellb, or perhaps understand our role, but don't think it's important20:32
devanandaanteaya: any data on how the voter turnout % compares to the % of contributors who have done only one patch?20:32
anteayattx, thank you, I will add after the discussion20:33
russellbmarkmc: yes or that20:33
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zanebI don't see the turnout as a problem with the election, but as a problem with how the TC is perceived in the community, like russellb said20:33
dhellmanndevananda: good question20:33
anteayadevananda: I don't have those numbers, but with fungi's help can try to get something next week20:33
markmczaneb, curious; based on what? gut instinct? anecdotes? own opinion?20:33
russellbwe could probably do better with communicating the topics we're working through more broadly20:33
russellbmine is gut instint20:34
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zanebI attend the TC meetings, so *I* know what is going on, but I've never seen e.g. an announcement of something that was decided by the TC20:34
markmcclainI think we engage foundation staff to help raise awareness... The timing in the cycle means it can get lost in shuffle20:34
zanebunless I went looking for it20:34
ttxso.. we used to post summaries20:34
eglynn... anyone else think the staggered terms may be lowering interest/turnout in TC elections?20:34
vishyzaneb, russellb: +120:34
ttxminutes of the TC meeting to the openstack ML20:34
dhellmannzaneb: good point, and that's an complaint we had for the board at one point, too20:34
anteayaeglynn: we will get to that next20:34
ttxbut since we switched to gerrit, there is no more decisions at the meeting20:34
vishyttx: something less formal than minutes might be better20:34
sdaguezaneb: agreed, summaries would be good20:35
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markmcwould blog posts like my board summaries help, I wonder? summary, with some commentary20:35
russellbi think it's more than minutes that's needed ... but an occasional blog about what we've been covering, and why it's important20:35
vishymarkmc: +120:35
devanandaeglynn: I don't feel that the staggered election has any impact on that, but i have no real data on that opinion20:35
russellbmarkmc: that!20:35
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ttxmarkmc: that! indeed20:35
dhellmannttx: it would still be a good idea to publish decisions after they merge20:35
sdaguemarkmc: yeh, definitely20:35
devanandamarkmc: ++20:35
anteayamarkmc: I like your blog posts20:35
jaypipesmarkmc: ++20:35
* ttx delegates markmc20:35
sdaguedhellmann: agreed20:35
dhellmannmarkmc: +120:35
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zanebin general, people don't know what the TC does, and they don't know who the candidates are outside of their own project20:35
markmcthat wasn't me volunteering :)20:35
* russellb thinks ttx should :)20:35
russellbMr chair20:35
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markmccan give it a shot, though20:36
jaypipeswe could do a rotation. I can volunteer to rotate in on the blog posts, if that's ok with folks.20:36
* ttx evacuates chair20:36
markmcmaybe we could rotate it20:36
zaneblook at the number of ballots where there are only ~5 candidates ranked, for example20:36
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dhellmannshould we set up a TC blog for it, so the messages aren't on someone's personal site?20:36
jaypipesmarkmc: jinx :)20:36
russellbyeah, rotate is fine with me20:36
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jaypipesdhellmann: yup, that works.20:36
russellbin theory there is an openstack blog ...20:36
fungianteaya: i can imagine a two-dimensional plot of voter turnout vs. commits20:36
ttxdhellmann: or we could post to the openstack blog20:36
markmcrussellb, the chair already has a lot to do ...20:36
anteayafungi: awesome, thank you20:36
russellbmarkmc: true20:36
dhellmannttx: that works, too20:36
zanebanteaya: it would be interesting to see stats on how many candidates get ranked on how many ballots20:36
jeblaira blog is fine, but this should also go to the dev list i think20:37
ttxdhellmann: that would help giving that post visibility20:37
dhellmannjeblair: +120:37
russellbjeblair: agreed20:37
markmcjeblair, yes20:37
anteayazaneb: I think that is something ttx likes to do up, when he has the time to do the math20:37
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dhellmannjeblair: although we already have problems with people missing messages on the list, so I think we should do both20:37
markmcclainI still don't think that blogging actually fixes the problem... I think  that the election itself needs more awareness20:37
sdaguezaneb: so is that an issue in the fact that our community is large enough that people have no familiarity beyond their projects?20:37
jeblairdhellmann: wfm20:37
dhellmannis our governance repository being published somewhere as html, yet?20:38
ttxfungi: we'll have to look te details of giving TC members an author account on that wordpress20:38
russellbsdague: that's another thing20:38
russellbbut we could address that with some more Q&A stuff in the election20:38
dhellmannmarkmcclain: how would you address that?20:38
SlickNiksdague: I think you're onto another reason here.20:38
sdagueit's time for our openstack foreign exchange program20:38
ttxanteaya: I'll redo my analysis soon20:38
anteayaI'm open to that20:38
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ttxOK so... actions20:38
anteayattx great, it will be an awesome blog post20:38
markmchow about an election debate?20:38
fungittx: yeah, i'm not real familiar with how it's currently configured20:38
sdaguedhellmann: it's not yet being published20:39
russellbmarkmc: yeah, pretty much20:39
ttx#action ttx to redo election analysis for last round20:39
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russellbmarkmc: or at least a bit more prompting of candidates to dig into key issues20:39
markmcmore than just our election platforms20:39
markmcbut make us debate some difficult issues20:39
zanebsdague: it's an issue if the projects are becoming siloed and nobody ever hears anything from outside their own project, and in particular from the TC20:39
ttx#action ttx/fungi to sort out publication of TC blogposts to www.o.o20:39
anteayamarkmc: I like the idea of a debate20:39
markmcask people to submit questions20:39
russellbmarkmc: +120:39
ttx#action TC members to rotate writing blogposts reporting on TC decisions20:39
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mikalanteaya: I kind of don't20:40
anteayamikal: okay, why?20:40
mikalanteaya: it seems too confrontational for a body that attempts concensus20:40
anteayafair enough20:40
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sdagueyeh, I have the same concerns as mikal on that20:40
devanandaanteaya: it also presumes that we disagree on things, which often, we dont20:40
mikalanteaya: I know its playing with words, but I think a panel works better for us20:40
anteayabut isn't that based on the style it is moderated?20:40
markmcmikal, stuff needs to be debated to reach consensus20:40
mikalanteaya: and we've done at least two of those in the past20:40
fungialso debates are better geared toward small numbers of candidates in an election20:40
markmcclaindhellman: I think we can target atcs w candidate profiles and look into ways to remind folks who haven't cast ballots20:40
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russellbi think we should expect and require a more in depth post than just "i want to run for the TC and ... well you all know me so thanks!"20:41
dhellmannI do like the idea of having some questions to address in nomination messages.20:41
anteayamikal: oh have we? this I didn't know20:41
mikalanteaya: the last two summits at the least20:41
anteayamikal: how can I access the history20:41
SlickNikrussellb: +120:41
anteayaa debate at teh summits?20:41
mikalanteaya: I don't think they were recorded, although perhaps HK was20:41
devanandawhat about a curated list of community-submitted questions, geared to give the projects' members a way to express their concerns for cross-project issues and find out the candidate's views?20:41
sdagueanteaya: the panel at the summit20:41
mikalanteaya: a "meet the TC" panel discussion20:41
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russellbpanel isn't really related to the election ...20:41
anteayayes, yes the panel20:41
markmcyeah, HK panel was recorded20:41
ttxI think one of the reasons why there isn't so much debate is that the TC election happens at a busy time20:41
dhellmannmikal: I didn't really view that as a debate, though20:41
SlickNikdevananda: I like that.20:41
anteayaI think the panel was great20:41
mikaldhellmann: sure... I'm mooting that its better than a debate, not a debate itself20:42
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SlickNikdevananda: Perhaps summaries of the answers can form part of the candidates' platform?20:42
dhellmanndevananda: +120:42
dhellmannmikal: ah, I misread20:42
ttxanteaya: how about, at hte same time we do self-nominations of candidates, people can post questions that every candidate will have to answer ?20:42
* jaypipes doesn't remember seeing any posts with "well you all kow me, so thanks..."20:42
anteayamikal: but it doesn't give voice for people not on the tc20:42
mikalI do think more depth in nomination emails is a good idea20:42
russellbttx: with some reasonable limit20:43
mikalOr at least _some_ discussion in their threads after annuncement20:43
dhellmannttx: I like having everyone post, and someone curating20:43
ttxrussellb: sure - election officials can make a final list of questions20:43
anteayattx yes something like that, but I picture me chasing folks for answers20:43
dhellmannanteaya: were there other issues related to elections you wanted to raise?20:43
devanandattx: ++20:43
anteayaso I would like something real time20:43
ttxthat will trigger interest and participatio20:43
anteayaso there is an end20:43
mikalanteaya: no, you don't chase -- you just mark them as not responsive20:43
dhellmannanteaya: it would be up to candidates to respond in their nomination email, right?20:43
jeblairanteaya: if people don't answer, it will look bad and hopefully they will not receive as many votes20:43
russellbi think we've identified some good ideas to run with, should we jump to other parts of this topic?20:43
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anteayadhellmann: yes20:44
ttx#action election officials to call for questions at the same time they call for self-nominations, and curate a list of questions candidates will answer20:44
anteayaother parts20:44
jeblairi think there's some timing logistics there to work out, but we can figure it out later20:44
anteayalet's look at the email summary: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/electoral-discussion-May-2014-email-summary20:44
russellbjeblair: agreed20:44
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anteayalet's start with item two20:44
anteayaneeded some messaging around campaigning20:44
dhellmannline 7020:45
anteayasince we seem to have some ideas for item one so far20:45
markmcanteaya, when you say messaging, you mean some sort of code of conduct right ?20:45
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anteayamarkmc: sure that is a good term20:45
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markmci.e. how we expect people to campaign20:45
anteayaexpectations of behaviour20:45
anteayayes exactly20:45
markmc(was just confused at first, "we need more messaging" == "we need more campaigning")20:45
anteayathere were some questions I couldn't answer this last election20:45
ttxI think recommending campaigning in the open is a good idea20:46
jeblair(though we do have a code of conduct, so that could be confusing http://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct/ )20:46
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anteayaand some people didn't know if they should report things or not, so nothing got reported20:46
anteayafolks, including me, should know what is expected20:46
jeblairanteaya: i think all of your suggestions are in the spirit of the code of conduct, which is nice.  i think they are good suggestions.20:46
markmcclainIt should be open methods  which is not covered by code20:46
dhellmannjeblair, anteaya : +120:46
markmcyeah, a code should include how to deal with reports of abuse20:47
jeblairnote the code of conduct does mention elections specifically in at least one point:20:47
jeblairRespect the election process. Members should not attempt to manipulate election results. Open debate is welcome, but vote trading, ballot stuffing and other forms of abuse are not acceptable.20:47
ttxanteaya: how about you draft a election expectations of behavior, and propose it as a resolution on gerrit ?20:47
sdaguedo we just want to expand the repect elections part of code of conduct?20:47
ttxwe can iterate on wording there20:47
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anteayamarkmc: thank you, yes, that is what this is aiming for20:47
anteayattx I can do that20:47
anteayawhat directory?20:47
jeblairi believe CoC violations are grounds for termination of membership status which means no voting or running in elections20:48
ttx#action anteaya to propose a resolution on election expectations of behavior20:48
dhellmannsdague: the existing code of conduct appears to be an appendix of the bylaws; would we need the board to change that?20:48
markmcchanging http://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct/ will mean a wider debate20:48
markmcsince it applies to board of director elections20:48
markmcslightly different values may apply?20:48
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sdagueok, fair20:48
ttxanteaya: that would end under resolutions/ in the governance repo20:48
dhellmannright, I think we can start with some focus on the PTL and TC elections and possibly move it to the CoC later20:48
anteayajeblair: I didn't know that was there, so perhaps I am failing in my role as election official20:48
sdaguedhellmann: sounds reasonable20:48
jeblairdhellmann: that sounds like a good strategy20:48
russellbdhellmann: ^20:49
anteayattx I will head for resolutions20:49
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ttxanteaya: I wuld definitely mention the CoC in that "behavior reminder"20:49
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anteayagreat I will mention20:49
ttxOK, we need to move on - anything else on that topic ?20:49
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anteayathanks all20:49
ttxI think we captured a number of actions20:49
ttxanteaya: thanks for raising that topic!20:50
russellbyep, good one20:50
ttx#topic Incubation/Integration requirements20:50
* anteaya nods gratefully20:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Incubation/Integration requirements (Meeting topic: tc)"20:50
ttx* Add Ceilometer requirements (https://review.openstack.org/85978)20:50
ttxlooks like we have a winner here20:51
* ttx +2s20:51
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ttx* add upgrade expectations (https://review.openstack.org/87234)20:52
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jeblairwe've been beating on this for a while20:53
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sdagueheh, so we actually tried to go folksy with examples intentionaly20:53
ttxthere is a -1 from russellb ... sdague do you stand by your current version, or plan to address them ?20:53
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ttxSince this change affects the consensual reqiurements, we need consensus on that one20:54
sdaguettx: I think there are some nits from eglynn that are fixable, but I really don't think spinning back around to writing code in english for our test conditions is a good tact20:54
sdaguethat was actually what we were trying to get away from20:54
devanandarussellb: as I read that section (within points in master) it would be fine for a project to require a series of upgrades20:54
ttx(this document reflects the basic requirements we all agree on, everything else is covered by our vote)20:54
russellbdevananda: fair point20:54
russellblet's just follow up on gerrit20:54
sdaguethe commits in master are in master where people do assume it's newer than stable branch20:54
ttxOK, i'll approve when it gets 7+ +1s and has no more -1s20:55
ttx#topic Housekeeping changes20:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Housekeeping changes (Meeting topic: tc)"20:55
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ttxA little ton of trivial changes which I'll directly approve asap20:56
ttx* Add project mission statement for Ceilometer (https://review.openstack.org/87526)20:56
ttxbeing the only exception I think20:56
ttxbut that one has enough +1s20:57
ttxthe others are:20:57
ttx* Add cinder-specs to block storage program (https://review.openstack.org/95893)20:57
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ttx* Add swift-specs to object storage program (https://review.openstack.org/95895)20:57
ttx* Add sahara-specs to data processing program (https://review.openstack.org/95897)20:57
ttx* Add keystone-specs to identity program (https://review.openstack.org/95891)20:57
ttx* Add ceilometer-specs to telemetry program (https://review.openstack.org/95890)20:57
ttx* Add ironic-specs to bare metal program (https://review.openstack.org/95892)20:57
ttx* Add glance-specs to image service program (https://review.openstack.org/95898)20:57
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ttx* Add tripleo-specs to tripleo program (https://review.openstack.org/95888)20:58
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ttx* Add heat-specs to orchestration program (https://review.openstack.org/95889)20:58
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ttx#topic Open discussion20:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:58
ttxmordred: I don't think you worked on the draft binary proposal for the "TC direction" column scores ?20:58
devanandaI'm glad to see concensus on the ceilometer mission statement -- thanks to eglynn and jogo for discussing that with me several times20:58
ttxin other news I submitted our proposed K names to the cursory name collision review20:58
dhellmanndevananda: +120:58
ttxI should be able to start the public poll soon20:58
jeblairSergeyLukjanov: thanks for making all of those changes and dealing with all those details20:58
ttxAnything else, anyone ?20:58
markwashttx: glance catalog mission should make it to next week right?20:58
jeblairttx: i will be out next week20:58
ttxmarkwash: yep, it's on the backlog20:59
jeblairttx: should i note that in the wiki, send an email to the tc list, and nominate a proxy?20:59
ttxjeblair: am confused. what will be out next week?20:59
jeblairttx: (i'll be in the wilderness for a week and might miss a vote)21:00
ttxoh. you21:00
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jeblairthey don't have gerrit where i'm going21:00
ttxjeblair: wiki, + optionally name a proxy21:00
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zehicle_at_delljust a reminder: there's a DefCore meeting tomorrow at 2100 UTC (this exact time),  mikal is attending but wanted to advise the TC too.   Agneda: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreLighthouse.221:00
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fungijeblair: we can totally install a gerrit out there21:00
jeblairi'll make sure to vote on everything pending21:00
ttxjeblair: although proxy less necessary with our gerrit based voting21:00
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jeblairttx: it's now through the end of next week so if something came up quickly, it could happen21:01
ttx#action mordred still to prepare draft binary proposal for the "TC direction" column scores21:01
ttxOK, time is up21:02
ttx#info DefCore meeting tomorrow at 2100 UTC (this exact time),  mikal is attending but wanted to advise the TC too.   Agneda: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreLighthouse.221:02
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:02
markmcthanks ttx21:02
* zehicle_at_dell thanks ttx21:02
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun  3 21:02:25 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:02
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-06-03-20.03.html21:02
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-06-03-20.03.txt21:02
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-06-03-20.03.log.html21:02
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ttxdhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, eglynn, markwash, jgriffith, mikal, zaneb, david-lyle, kmestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: around ?21:02
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mrungeo/ /me instead of david-lyle21:03
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ttx#startmeeting project21:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Jun  3 21:03:53 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)"21:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'project'21:03
ttxAgenda @21:03
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ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting21:04
ttxDue to travel we couldn't have 1:1s today, so if you have news you can shout them now21:04
ttxnotmyname: how is the storage policies merging going so far ?21:04
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notmynamettx: really well. in fact I'm sitting in a room with a bunch of devs after having just done a 2-hour overview with the code on the screen. still probably a week or so left to get it merged, but great progress so far21:05
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notmyname(and really cool development today, swift will probably have two-dimentional time!)21:05
mikalnotmyname: ?!?21:06
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zanebI definitely want to hear more about that :D21:06
notmynameheh. ask me later. just a cool way to represent progress in the system without changing what the client sees as timestamps :-)21:06
ttxnotmyname: ok, teasing I see21:06
notmynamenot really important for this meeting :-)21:06
SergeyLukjanovttx, [sahara] I think we're going to start -specs pilot for selected bps at the end of week21:07
SlickNiktwo dimensional time? I'm intrigued :)21:07
mikalI'm still struggling with the linear flow of time I experience day to day21:07
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dhellmannmikal: in 2 dimensional time, you can go around meetings21:07
ttx#info [sahara] to start -specs pilot for selected bps at the end of week21:07
mikaldhellmann: omg, that would be awesome21:07
* ttx uses 3D time. With glasses21:07
dhellmannmikal: I know!21:07
ttxnotmyname: looks like a blogpost is in order21:08
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mikalttx: nova is chasing juno-1, and de-ephasising specs approvals to focus reviewers on juno-1. We're also having a bug day today or tomorrow depending on your timezone.21:08
ttxok, that brings us to...21:08
ttx#topic Juno-1 plans21:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Juno-1 plans (Meeting topic: project)"21:08
ttxI looked up the juno-1 plans for all the projects tagging the milestone next week21:08
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ttxceilometer, keystone, neutron, nova, sahara, trove plans all look good21:08
mikalttx: also, johnthetubaguy has done a really good job of shunting stuff to juno-2 that wont make it into juno-121:08
ttxheat, oslo, horizon may need a bit of polish/cleanup21:08
ttxbut overall plans look good21:08
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ttxI'll be in touch with you all over next week21:08
mikalttx: do you have advice on producing release notes?21:09
ttxas we refine the juno-1 plans (tag due next week)21:09
mikalttx: should I be writing them progressively over the release?21:09
ttxmikal: people usually do them at the very end, but i can only encourage frontloading21:09
mikalttx: i.e. should they be part of the juno-1 milestone?21:09
eglynnrelnotes are only for the final 2014.2 tag right?21:09
eglynn... i.e. not per-milestone, or?21:09
ttxeglynn: yes, final only21:09
mikaleglynn: sure, but how to you remember 6 months of work?21:09
eglynnmikal: fair point :)21:10
zanebttx: I did some tidying earlier today, not sure if you looked since then21:10
ttxzaneb: depends on your definition of earlier21:10
zanebI forget what time21:10
ttxthere were a few undefined/nuassigned last time I looked21:10
eglynnmikal: let LP remember for you ... no, actually, scratch that thought ;)21:10
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ttxI'll also reach out to decide if we are ready to enable the auto-kick-unprioritized-bps script21:10
* dhellman_ may be the victim of a netsplit21:10
mikaleglynn: I just don't want to have to read 2,500 commit messages in a big rush later21:11
zanebttx: I think there are maybe 2 undefined ones left21:11
mikalSo any advice welcome21:11
ttx(for the projects using -specs)21:11
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ttx#topic Other program news21:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Other program news (Meeting topic: project)"21:12
ttxInfra, QA, Docs... anything you'd like to mention ?21:12
dhellman_I have a couple of things for oslo21:12
mtreinishwell I forgot to mention we pushed the first tag for branchless tempest last week21:12
mtreinishnot that special though21:12
ttxdhellman_: sure, you cane #info them yourself21:12
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ttx#info branchless tempest is now a thing21:13
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dhellman_#info Please remember as you set your priorities that the rpc code in the incubator will be removed at the end of this cycle, so reviews for work on oslo.messaging adoption should get some love. :-)21:13
dhellman_I think only heat, neutron, and trove are left.21:13
dhellman_also, I'm not seeing the participation I was hoping for from Oslo liaisons. Please remind your liaisons to attend the weekly oslo meeting https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo21:13
dhellman_It's not like I'm calling roll, but I'm not hearing from many of them.21:14
mtreinishttx: heh, well it was already a thing because we didn't make an icehouse branch at the release21:14
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mikaldhellman_: also, log message hinting needs to not be forgotten, right?21:14
eglynnmtreinish: guidance on the policy around skipping selected Juno tests against stable/icehouse would be welcome21:14
dhellman_mikal: yes, I have a todo to write up some instructions as part of the oslo.i18n release21:14
ttxmikal: about release notes - ideally we would autogenerate most of them from a specs blurb or some commit message parts -- but it's non-trivial to fetch those back21:14
SlickNikdhellman_: Thanks for the heads up. Will follow up on it.21:14
dhellman_mikal: assuming you mean translation?21:15
mikalttx: do we only include landed bps in release notes? Not important bug fixes?21:15
mtreinisheglynn: guidance in what format?21:15
mesterydhellman_: We're working on the oslo.messaging port in neutron right now.21:15
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mikaldhellman_: yeah21:15
ttx#oslo not seeing the participation I was hoping for from Oslo liaisons. Please remind your liaisons to attend the weekly oslo meeting https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo21:15
dhellman_mestery: excellent21:15
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ttx#info oslo not seeing the participation I was hoping for from Oslo liaisons. Please remind your liaisons to attend the weekly oslo meeting https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo21:15
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eglynnmtreinish: just in English is fine :)21:15
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jogoohh oslo meetings almost forgot21:16
dhellman_mikal: my goal is to have oslo.i18n ready for J1, and to include all of the guidelines in the docs21:16
ttxmikal: we include "major features"21:16
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eglynnmtreinish: (... since I thought the discoverable API-driven approach was the initially agreed approach last week, but seems that config driven option has made a re-appearance?)21:16
mikalttx: ok21:16
ttxmikal: it's that editorial part (the selection of what is major) that takes time21:16
ttxOK, I think we can safely switch to...21:17
ttx#topic Open discussion21:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)"21:17
ttxAnything else, anyone ?21:17
mtreinisheglynn: it needs both. the discoverable api is for end users (and config generation and verification in tempest). But from the tempest side it still needs to be a config flag21:17
dolphmregarding the auto-kick-unprioritized-bps script... that's a one time thing per project, run?21:17
ttxmikal, mestery: wanted to ask you if you didn't end up with twice as many reviews to do with the whole -specs thing21:17
ttxdolphm: it would run regularly. The current script runs every 2 hours21:18
mikalttx: could you rephrase the question please?21:18
mesteryttx: It's true it has increased the review load, but it's helped as well because it's gotten discussions going earlier on some items.21:18
mesteryttx: And having one place to go for people to participate and see other's comments is also very nice.21:18
eglynnmtreinish: k, we can take the discussion off-line for later/tmrw (... prolly not relevant to the rest of this meeting)21:18
dolphmttx: so what does it mean to kick them? mark as obsolete or something?21:18
mikalI don't see evidence that its reduced the load on nova reviewers21:18
mikalWe do have a lot of specs reviews open21:18
ttxmikal: I think there is general agreement tat specs is a good thing... just want early feedback on the additional work it generates, if any21:18
mikalSo people doing those are pretty busy21:18
mikalttx: ahh, I see21:18
mtreinisheglynn: fair enough :). I'll write up something in the tempest developer docs for this too21:18
mikalI think its worth it21:19
dhellman_dolphm: I think to just unset the target release21:19
mesteryI think the additional work it generates is worth it as well.21:19
mikalThere's definitely code we're -2'ing until we get a spec21:19
eglynnmtreinish: cool, thanks!21:19
mikalWhich I think means we're landing better designed code21:19
dolphmdhellman_: ah, thanks21:19
mikalWe're still pretty badly behind on reviews though (around 500 open last I looked)21:19
ttxdolphm: that leans clearing the milestone target field21:19
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dolphmi'd like a script that kept *code* reviews referencing un-approved blueprints/specs to be maintained as Work In Progress automatically :)21:19
dhellman_ttx: milestone or series?21:20
dhellman_dolphm: +121:20
SlickNikdolphm: ++21:20
ttxdhellman_: milestone. The series is autoadjusted to match the milestone (damn LP)21:20
ttxdolphm: I think mikal has something21:20
dolphmmikal: ooh?21:20
dhellman_ttx: ok, I just removed a bunch of blueprints with juno as the series but without specs (I only had a few, so I did them by hand)21:20
mikaldolphm: we're doing that manually21:21
dolphmmikal: same here21:21
mikalWell, I have a script, but then I do a lot of hand checking21:21
dolphmmikal: link?21:21
mikaljohnthetubaguy might have something better21:21
ttxdhellman_: you shouldn't care about the series -- the script maes sure it stays coherent with the milestone (since Lp doesn't)21:21
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dhellman_ttx: ok, I was using the series for planning21:21
dhellman_before the summit21:21
mikaldolphm: to my script? Let's talk about that in PM, its tied up in a bigger, not very general script for my personal code reviews21:22
dolphmmikal: ack21:22
ttxdhellman_: the problem is it can get out of sync with the milestone21:22
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dhellman_ttx: both are blank now, so they're in sync :-)21:22
ttxdhellman_: so we use "priority" and "milestone target" only21:22
ttxseries is autoadjusted (with the current script)21:22
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ttxthe new script will additionally makes sure only prioritized stuff can be listed in a milestone, effectively restricting that "blessing" task to project drivers21:23
dhellman_I now have a bunch of prioritized bps without milestones, so I guess I need to set those?21:23
ttxscript leaves a gentle comment in the whiteboard when it kicks things out of milestones21:23
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ttxdhellman_: yes, ideally. You can use the future/next things21:24
dhellman_ttx: ok21:24
ttxif that's not juno material21:24
ttxanything else before we close ?21:25
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ttxI guess that's a no21:26
ttxTalk to you all later!21:26
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:26
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jun  3 21:26:30 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:26
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-06-03-21.03.html21:26
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-06-03-21.03.txt21:26
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-06-03-21.03.log.html21:26
* dolphm salute21:26
SlickNikThanks ttx21:26
eglynnthanks and good night!21:26
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SlickNikg'night eglynn21:26
mrungethanks and good night to you all21:26
sdaguedolphm: so instead of writing custom scripts for that, it seems like a feature you should bring into zuul21:27
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dolphmsdague: ++ let me play around with the workflow a bit, but i'm definitely thinking in that direction as well21:28
fungisdague: i'm not sure zuul is the right place for that, but some sort of infra system anyway21:28
sdaguefungi: sure21:28
fungiit could certainly be a periodic zuul job *triggered* by patchset uploads, though i wouldn't count that as being in zuul itself21:29
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fungis/job/job or/21:29
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