Wednesday, 2014-06-18

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loquacitiesheya APAC docs people!03:02
loquacitiesanyone here?03:02
* annegentle waves03:02
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loquacitiesheya annegentle03:02
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loquacitiesok, i'll give everyone another couple of minutes03:04
martinlopeshi loquacities03:05
loquacitiesoh hi martinlopes03:06
loquacitiesi think we haven't made quorum :(03:06
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annegentlemeh, not like we have to vote on much :)03:06
loquacitiesheh, true03:07
loquacitieswe can just chat in the other chan, i think :)03:07
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slongloquacities: I don't have anything and am RUNNING on another deadline...03:09
loquacitiesslong: no problem at all03:09
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loquacitiesbest of luck :)03:09
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enikanorovi'm curious if anyone up for lbaas meeting?14:00
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enikanorovi'm mad, it's on thursday14:02
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johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI15:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Jun 18 15:00:22 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:00
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johnthetubaguyhello everyone15:00
johnthetubaguyBobBall: ping15:00
johnthetubaguy#topic XenServer CI15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "XenServer CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:01
BobBallI was already here15:01
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johnthetubaguyyeah, should have said hello rather than ping15:01
johnthetubaguyanyways, how the CI this last week15:01
johnthetubaguyfailed to do any more work on that from my side I am afraid15:01
BobBalla change merged to break everything15:01
johnthetubaguyoh joy15:01
BobBalland I mean _everything_15:02
BobBallnova change to deprecate config options15:02
BobBallfirst run through the CI said "this is broken", second run (a recheck after jenkins failure) hit a CI issue so the patch was pushed through and broke all our jobs15:02
johnthetubaguywhich patch?15:03
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johnthetubaguyright, well I guess devstack never got moved to the new names15:04
BobBallI know15:04
BobBallI fixed it15:05
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johnthetubaguyare we back working now?15:05
BobBallit's just very frustrating that the failure was there in the logs but it was ignored (at least partly because of the CI failure)15:05
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johnthetubaguyhmm, OK15:07
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johnthetubaguywell, it happens I guess15:07
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johnthetubaguyany more news on that front?15:07
BobBallnot that I can think of ATM15:08
johnthetubaguydid you get those fixes in we spoke about relating to re-creating the image?15:08
BobBallI was trying to test that today15:08
BobBallbut it's not working for some reason15:08
BobBallso I have to wait for the overnight image rebuild to see if it works15:08
johnthetubaguyhmm, OK, thanks for digging into that15:09
johnthetubaguy#topic Open Discussion15:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:09
johnthetubaguyI am looking at an interesting snapshot bug15:09
johnthetubaguybut not really much else to report right now15:09
johnthetubaguyany more for any more?15:09
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BobBalllink to the bug would be useful for the minutes15:10
johnthetubaguyyeah, just hunting15:10
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BobBallThere is some interesting stuff with Intel, TXT and Mystery Hill going on ATM15:10
BobBallPrimarily developed by Intel15:10
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1331440 in nova "xenapi: failed snapshots never deleted" [Medium,In progress]15:11
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BobBalland waiting for a barbican BP to land before any real work can be done / design considered within nova15:11
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johnthetubaguyhmm, I remember seeing some TXT plans a little while ago15:11
johnthetubaguywhats your plan there?15:11
BobBallWell XS already supports TXT15:12
BobBallso it's more a question of the openstack portion15:12
BobBallwhich would only need some minor changes to things like the glance plugin to decrypt a vm image when it's downloaded15:12
johnthetubaguyright, its the testing for this stuff that worries me, needs hardware I guess15:13
johnthetubaguywithout a virtual TXT15:13
BobBall100% hardware yes15:13
johnthetubaguyanyways, good to track15:13
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johnthetubaguyif only to make sure its not done in a way that locks out XenServer15:13
BobBallno idea what would be needed to get a virtual TPM for testing in openstack stylee15:13
johnthetubaguyI know cloud stack did something there already15:13
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BobBallthe who what now?  I know nothing about the 'other' stack :)15:14
johnthetubaguyanyways, are we all done then?15:14
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johnthetubaguycool, thanks BobBall15:15
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:15
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jun 18 15:15:26 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:15
openstackMinutes (text):
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annegent_hey johnthetubaguy and BobBall just wanted to be sure you saw the ML post from Tom about Xen docs:
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johnthetubaguyannegent_: yeah, thanks, it really does need some work, just no one has stepped up yet15:18
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annegent_johnthetubaguy: let's keep reaching out to people then15:20
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jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:02
openstackMeeting started Wed Jun 18 16:02:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:02
jgriffithHey everyone16:02
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jungleboyjHappy Wednesday.16:02
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jgriffithwe have a quick agenda today16:02
jkremerHi: First time attendee here.16:03
thingeefamous last words16:03
jgriffithjkremer: welcome16:03
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jgriffiththingee: true16:03
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jgriffith#topic review day16:03
*** openstack changes topic to "review day (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:03
jgriffithSo lots of activity going on in terms of reviews16:03
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jungleboyjThat is good news.16:04
jgriffiththanks to everyone that's carving out some time and helping out here16:04
thingeewould it make sense to do a hangout again?16:04
jgriffiththingee: I was hoping to keep it informal16:04
* jungleboyj is looking the debug one right now and has been working on the Database change as well.16:04
jgriffithJust raise awareness and get folks to do a few reviews16:04
jgriffithwe've been pretty slack as of late in general16:04
kmartinthingee: if the review are being kept up on it's probably not needed16:05
jgriffithdepending on what the queue looks like after today I'd like to consider a formal day next week16:05
jgriffithwith a Google-Hangout16:05
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jgriffithseem reasonable?16:05
jungleboyjjgriffith: Sounds reasonable.16:05
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jgriffithalright...  so I just wanted to make sure we raised awareness on the topic16:05
flip214_does the bot count ±1 votes, too?16:06
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jgriffithand send a plea to everyone here....16:06
jgriffithPlease, if you can set aside some time each day to do even just one or two reviews16:06
jgriffiththat applies to EVERYONE16:06
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jgriffiththat would be great16:06
glenngjgriffith: I will try to do what I can.16:06
jgriffithcore should be doing at least that16:06
Arkady_Kanevskyjust blueprints or SPECs also?16:06
jgriffithflip214_: what do you mean?16:07
jgriffithflip214_: ohhhh16:07
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jgriffithflip214_: ignore the bot, core should just +2/A those16:07
jgriffithdon't waste your time :)16:07
jgriffithArkady_Kanevsky: code reviews16:07
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jgriffithArkady_Kanevsky: good point... I'm mostly interested in whittling down code submissions today16:07
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jgriffithArkady_Kanevsky: in general though, sure.... specs as well.  Input is always welcome16:08
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jgriffithjust today I want to focus on our backlog of code submissions16:08
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jgriffithany questions/concerns?16:08
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jgriffiththanks for everyone that's pitching in here today16:09
jgriffith#topic cinder meetup in FTC16:09
*** openstack changes topic to "cinder meetup in FTC (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:09
jgriffithI think Scott put together an etherpad for us:
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jgriffithscottda: :)16:09
Arkady_Kanevskywhole week meeting?16:10
navneetjgriffith: is it also going to be shared online on hangout?16:10
scottdaThings are pretty set from this end for now. Chime in on the etherpad and let me know if I'm missing anything.16:10
jgriffithOne thing I realized I should point out to folks.... Denver and particularly Fort Collins aren't exactly like the Bay area etc16:10
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kmartinI thought is was going to be three days16:10
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jgriffithkmartin: it was :)16:10
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Arkady_Kanevskyfrom eitherpad - Cinder Mid-Cycle Meetup August 11-15th 201416:11
jgriffithso let's figure that out right now16:11
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jgriffithfull week is great for some folks traveling internationally ( DuncanT- )16:11
kmartintuesday to thursday?16:11
jgriffithbut what about others?16:11
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jgriffithkmartin: tuesday-thursday seems reasonable to me16:12
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jgriffithallows people to NOT travel on the week-end16:12
Arkady_Kanevskytu-th good. traveling on Mond & Friday16:12
navneetjgriffith: whats the procedure for joining it remotely?16:12
jgriffithAnybody object to Tues - Thurs?16:12
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jungleboyjjgriffith: No, that would work great for me.16:12
kmartinDuncanT- can go dancing the other two days16:12
jgriffithnavneet: We'll set up a hangout16:12
jungleboyjjgriffith: That was what I had proposed to my management.16:13
navneetjgriffith: cool...16:13
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jgriffithnavneet: I'll proably bring an extra laptop just to setup/run a hangout with16:13
kmartinagree +1 on the days16:13
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navneetjgriffith: that would be gr8....thx16:13
jgriffithOk...  So the plan is Tues - Thurs16:13
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jgriffithNote my points about things like public transportation16:14
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jgriffithYou don't want to take a cab from DIA to FTC16:14
Arkady_Kanevskyrent a car. find a buddy to carpool16:14
jgriffiththere are shuttles and car services but yes...16:14
jgriffithas Arkady_Kanevsky says...16:14
jgriffithrent a care and if you can coordinate carpool16:14
glenngAnybody know if the shuttle services that run during ski season still operate int eh summer?16:14
jungleboyjIf there is anyone that wanted to try and meet in DIA and get a ride I should be able to get a rental.16:15
scottdaThere are airport shuttles.16:15
jgriffithglenng: there is SuperShuttle16:15
jungleboyjscottda: What is the address of the HP site?16:15
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Arkady_Kanevskyuse etherpad for car pooling16:15
scottdaSee the etherpad for HP site google map16:15
jungleboyjscottda: Thanks.16:15
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scottdaAlso, HP employees get a discount at the nearby Cambria suites. Let me know and I can try to block out some rooms (let me know about how many rooms)16:16
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jgriffithok... so we'll put more details together as we go along16:17
jgriffithbut the meetup IS happening and we have dates and a location16:17
jkremerWill the meeting be useful for newbies?16:18
jgriffitha HUGE thanks to scottda for cooridinating this16:18
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glenngjgriffith: +1016:18
jgriffithjkremer: my crystal ball says "sure" :)16:18
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jkremerCool I'll attend (since I live in CO anyway)16:18
akerrjgriffith: is there a proposed agenda?16:18
jungleboyjjkremer: I would think so.  Wish I had a summit or something like the meetup when I first started.16:18
hemnanow if I can just get approval for travel16:18
jgriffithjkremer: oh... well then you should at least stop in for a day or so16:18
jgriffithhemna: you better, since we changed it specifically at your request!16:19
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jgriffithand I had to reschedule a bunch of stuff as a result16:19
hemnayah...unfortunately it's out of my hands :)16:19
* DuncanT- will come up for the week anyway, there are plenty of none-cinder folks in FC I need to meet16:19
hemnaerr :(16:19
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DuncanT-(Soory I'm late ;-) )16:19
kmartinscottda: can you put the building # for the lobby that you want people to go into?16:20
navneetjgriffith: you stay in CO too....some space in ur farmhouse :)16:20
hemnaI'm hoping I get to I might head to Montana after to get some fly fishing in.16:20
jgriffithhemna: ummm... maybe you should've just responded "can't go" instead16:20
jgriffithbut too late now16:20
jgriffithhemna: bring your fly-rod.... I'll take you to a spot here16:20
jungleboyjWelcome to the party DuncanT-16:20
jgriffithand I'll drive up to Missoula with you after :)16:20
scottdakmartin: will do16:20
jgriffithmore details to come but we've got things lined up16:21
jgriffith#topic seperating control and data planes in drivers16:21
*** openstack changes topic to "seperating control and data planes in drivers (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:21
jgriffithSo I had hoped to share some code today16:21
jgriffithbut I've got some other things going on16:21
jgriffithI've almost got this *done*16:21
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flip214is that the " Separation of Connectors from Driver/Device Interface (status update) [jdg] " point now?16:22
jgriffithThere's going to be a bunch of cleanup in drivers and in the unit tests though16:22
jgriffithflip214: yes16:22
flip214I'm asking because the wiki title made me think about splitting up drivers16:22
jgriffithis everybody clear on what that means?16:22
jgriffithflip214: ok... there's my answer16:22
flip214but I don't really know about "separating control and data planes"16:22
jgriffithso...  one of the problems I see in our current architecture16:22
jgriffithcontrol path and data path are intertwined16:23
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flip214IIUC you want to move the iSCSI connector out of the LVM driver interface, right?16:23
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flip214as an example16:23
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jgriffithfor example you have things like driver-->iSCSIDriver--->LVMiSCSIDriver etc etc16:23
akerrjgriffith: is this not brick?16:23
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jgriffithflip214: yes16:23
jgriffithakerr: it was supposed to be but IMO brick has pretty much failed and is dead :(16:23
jgriffithakerr: but....16:23
jgriffithmore to the point....16:24
jgriffithif you look at what we have today... it's a mess16:24
jgriffithWe have some iscsi/data-path things being done in driver.py16:24
jgriffithsome in volume/iscsi.py16:24
navneetjgriffith: brick is dead means....some other component to replace?16:24
jgriffithand yet more in brick/iscis16:24
jgriffithnavneet: slowwww down now :)16:24
flip214um. that's quick important to me, because now I have to re-think about the layering inbetween - replication driver (LVM - DRBD - iSCSI)16:24
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jgriffithso what I'm working on is seperating the connection code from the drivers completely16:25
flip214so yes, having some code to look at would be quite nice ...16:25
DuncanT-navneet: Brick is what it is, this new stuff probably isn't going into brick16:25
bswartz I'm surprised to hear about the death of brick16:25
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jgriffithbswartz: hold on... let's not get carried away16:25
* DuncanT- is far from convinced brick is dead, brick just didn't turn out to be what was originally planned for it.... IMO16:25
bswartzjgriffith: you were the one that said it :-p16:25
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jgriffithwhat I meant by that was that it never really turned into anything16:26
eharneyi think we need a blueprint somewhere explaining some of this16:26
jgriffithand frankly it added some complexity that I hadn't intended or foreseen16:26
hemnaDuncanT-, well I disagree with that.  the initiator connector stuff is good and is needed by cinder and nova16:26
jgriffithgood idea, bad outcome16:26
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jgriffithhemna: DuncanT- ok... don't worry16:26
jgriffithfirst patch to seperate things brick will still be there and will get "more" items16:27
hemnaThe target side of brick hasn't panned out yet16:27
hemnathat I agree with.16:27
jgriffithright now tgt-helper functions are spread out in 3 places16:27
jgriffithin other words brick was never really "finished"16:27
hemnajgriffith, agreed.16:27
jgriffithanyway... I'll get code up this week16:27
DuncanT-hemna: There's lots of good stuff in brick, just not the stuff that was planned back when we floated the concept16:27
jgriffithit'll be easier to talk to16:27
hemnajgriffith, very cool.  Looking forward to it.16:28
jgriffithand the main thing is I'm trying to make sure there's backward compatability16:28
jgriffithand that upgrades aren't broken16:28
navneetDuncanT-, jgriffith: do we have spec or design somewhr? or some modifications to brick16:28
flip214jgriffith: could you share some git URL for your work, so that I can look at what you're doing?16:28
jgriffithThe idea is that one "should" be able to do things like:16:28
jgriffithhave LVM as a backend device16:28
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jgriffithand EASILY configure what protocol to use with it16:28
hemnajgriffith, I'm curious/interested in the FC side of things, especially since I've kinda removed most concepts of FC in the volume manager and VolumeDriver now with my latest patch16:29
jgriffithiscsi, fibre, direct etc16:29
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jgriffithand add things in the future if needed like infiniband or whatever16:29
hemnavery cool16:29
jgriffithTo be clear I'm not proposing infiniband... just an example16:29
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navneethemna: shouldn't FC also be part of the connector component?16:29
jgriffithhemna: yeah, that's why I pinged you about this last week16:30
eharneyfor this new code, just make sure we have something (spec/blueprint) describing the direction and goal, relation to brick, etc16:30
hemnanavneet, yes it should16:30
flip214so, less inheritance in the code?16:30
thingeejgriffith: rtslib takes care of management of these things pretty well.16:30
hemnanavneet, there is already a connector in brick for FC16:30
jgriffitheharney: understood16:30
flip214and more of "take this backend device, and use its functins"16:30
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jgriffitheharney: wanted to make sure I actually had folks on board and clear on the goal before that16:30
navneethemna: code move is on your cards16:30
jungleboyjjgriffith: Is the expectation that all drivers move to this approach by the end of Juno or are you flexible on that timing?16:30
jgriffitheharney: and there is a bp for this16:30
flip214a connector HAS A backend, and there won't be so many classes that ARE lvm and iscsi.16:30
jgriffithjungleboyj: that's going to depend16:30
jgriffithjungleboyj: I'm going to try and actually fix that myself but we'll see how it goes16:31
thingeejgriffith: have you considered using rtslib as an interface for the different connectors?16:31
hemnaflip214, well, I think we'll still have driver inheritance, just not broken inheritance like we have now.16:31
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jgriffithjungleboyj: I certainly don't intend to just "break" everybody's driver.  that would be stupid16:31
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jgriffiththingee: that's a future topic IMO16:31
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eharneythingee: fwiw one stumbling point w/ rtslib at the moment is that it requires the library to run as root16:31
jgriffiththingee: I don't want to force any one solution right now16:31
jgriffiththingee: for now I just want to seperate the code16:32
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hemnartslib could just be another connector16:32
jgriffithhave a logical implementation that's actually maintainable and works16:32
flip214+1 to maintainable ;)16:32
jgriffithhemna: yeah... and that's the idea for what I'm doing currently16:32
thingeehemna: well rtslib provides an interface for iscsi, fc, infraband, etc16:32
thingeeit wouldn't be a connector imo16:32
jgriffiththingee: yeah, which is coool....16:32
jungleboyjjgriffith: Right, I knew that backwards compatibility was planned but just wondering if there is an expected time frame for people to move.16:32
navneetjgriffith: so many places we need to implement this principle16:32
jgriffiththingee: but I'm not willing to say you "have to" use rtslib16:33
jungleboyjjgriffith: Or are you thinking that drives may not need to make a change?16:33
jgriffithat least not right now16:33
hemnathingee, yup, but there is no harm in creating an rtslib connector.16:33
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thingeeimo a connector is the fabric16:33
jgriffithnavneet: yeah, but this is one of the worst areas currently IMO16:33
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jgriffithnavneet: try following things like the attach process today16:33
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navneetjgriffith: why dont we identify the areas and post it somewhr16:33
jgriffithparticularly with the LVM driver16:34
jgriffithit's henous16:34
jgriffithnavneet: go ahead16:34
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navneetjgriffith: ll post and catch DuncanT- :)16:34
jgriffithI'll get my prototype code up here in the next day or two and let everyone know when it's up16:34
jgriffithI don't think there should be any objectsion to the idea16:35
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jgriffithimpl maybe... but not the concept16:35
jgriffith#topic 3'rd party CI updates16:35
*** openstack changes topic to "3'rd party CI updates (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:35
jgriffithOk... so we're in J-216:35
jgriffithnot seeing any 3'rd party CI testing in the reviews (including my own)16:35
navneetjgriffith: we are facing connectivity issues...working on it16:35
jgriffithJust want to make sure folks are in fact keeping in mind we MUST do this for J-216:35
xyang1Have anyone successfully setup the whole thing?16:36
jgriffithnavneet: yeah, akerr filled me in on the joys yesterday16:36
jgriffithnavneet: I have the same problem on my side ;)16:36
jgriffithxyang1: I've succesfully set it up and run16:36
akerrjgriffith, navneet: i think I *might* know what the issue is, but i'll take it offline16:36
navneetjgriffith: :) ...I am not alone...thanks God16:36
jgriffithxyang1: I haven't succesfully got my voting to work16:36
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xyang1jgriffith: can you get events?16:36
jgriffithxyang1: yes16:36
xyang1jgriffith: so you don't have firewall issue?16:37
hemnawe are blocked on an internal IT request currently16:37
jgriffithxyang1: no16:37
hemnasuppose to be resolved at the end of June.   :(16:37
* hemna waits for HPIT16:37
xyang1we had big problems with IT:(16:37
DuncanT-You can use corkscrew or similar to get the events through most https proxies....16:37
jgriffithso you folks can't get "out" ?16:37
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xyang1we requested unblocking the ports, but they are very concerned16:37
jgriffithYour firewall blocks you going out to OpenStack Infra?  That sucks16:38
xyang1git review is blocked16:38
hemnayah there is a port that has to get opened up for us to do it.16:38
hemnathere are other projects inside of HP that need it as well.16:38
xyang1since this is in a lab, not someone's laptop, they are concerned that noone is monitoring this16:38
jgriffithOk... sounds like a lot of challenges (which I suspected)16:38
hemnaour fw sucks for many reasons.16:38
DuncanT-hemna: +1million16:39
jungleboyjWe have hardware and some of the other pieces in place.  Looking for resource to get everything set up.16:39
clarkbhemna: you can proxy...16:39
hemnaI can see if corkscrew helps us at all in this situation, but I'm not sure it does.  I use it for git review submissions locally16:39
jgriffithproxy from your lab to your laptop to gerrit :)16:39
clarkbthe fw being opened is more of a convenince thing16:39
jgriffithand hope you don't get fired16:39
xyang1about publishing logs, where to do that?16:39
jgriffithclarkb: ahh.. you have an alternate16:39
hemnayah, I've done ssh tunnels like that before....16:39
clarkbyou don't even need an ssh tunnel16:39
navneethemna: was thinking tunnelling ;-)16:40
xyang1Does it only support "scp" when publishing logs?16:40
jgriffithclarkb: is there a documented alternative for these folks?16:40
akerrhemna: the corkscrew is for opening the bottle to drown your sorrows16:40
jungleboyjakerr: +216:41
xyang1jgriffith: if we don't use nodepool, just restart slave node after runs, is that acceptable?16:41
clarkbjgriffith: yes iirc therea re internal docs for how to talk to gerrit16:41
DuncanT-hemna: You can absolutely use corkscrew to get a CI working... I just don't know where to plug it into the CI-in-a-box stuff16:41
jgriffithclarkb: great.. thanks16:41
jgriffithclarkb: I'll take another look there later16:41
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jgriffithhemna: xyang1 let's see if the official OpenStack docs can solve this for us16:42
jgriffithor ... you :)16:42
hemnaheh ok.16:42
clarkbwell not the official docs16:42
clarkbwe can't support everyones flavor of ridiculousness upstream :)16:42
clarkbbut there are knwon workarounds at hp16:42
jgriffithclarkb: haha... good point.  I call them "official" as they live on OpenStack web-servers16:42
jgriffithclarkb: haha16:42
xyang1jgriffith: so we can run it by restarting slaves, but it doesn't look like we can get nodepool setup on time to meet the J-2 deadline:(16:43
jgriffithxyang1: IMO that's ok16:43
jgriffithxyang1: node-pool isn't a requirement.  Just running against patch submissions16:43
xyang1jgriffith: that's a relief.16:43
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jgriffithxyang1: I have the same problem of needing to restart slaves16:43
jgriffithfor now I'm just living with that16:44
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jgriffithalthough I can't figure out *why* I need to restart them16:44
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jgriffithdoing things like "" etc doesn't work either16:44
xyang1jgriffith: another question is whether we can filter out some commits.  I mean there are about 10-20 commits every day, each run taks > 1 hour.   if we run against each commit, it will choke up the system16:44
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jgriffithxyang1: I think we agreed you only have to run against cinder commits16:45
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jgriffithand yes, everybody felt you should run against all fo them16:45
xyang1jgriffith: 10-20 cinder commits a day16:45
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jgriffiththats' what we all discussed in ATL16:46
navneetxyang1: nodepool helps here16:46
e0ne_is any list of planned 3rd party CIs available? i'm new in cinder and working on integrating testing with ceph as beckend16:46
jgriffithe0ne_: nope16:46
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xyang1navneet: we can't have nodepool setup on time for J-2:(16:46
jgriffithe0ne_: but somebody is going to need to pick up things like Ceph/RBD, Gluster, NFS etc16:46
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akerrjgriffith: NetApp plans to pick up generic NFS16:46
e0nei hope, i'll do it for juno-2.16:46
navneetxyang1: you can set it in J3...and minimize time later on16:47
jgriffithakerr: yay!16:47
xyang1navneet: sure, that is our long term plan16:47
jgriffithakerr: I'll start a wiki page and we can track this sort of thing16:47
DuncanT-akker: Kudos16:47
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e0nejgriffith: great! i'm already working on ceph testing using
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akerrjgriffith: eventually we'd like to see it migrate to the gate, but we can cover for now 😊16:48
xyang1navneet: have you figured out where to publish logs16:48
jgriffithe0ne: Ohh.. you're Sebastien!  Nice to meet you :)16:48
e0nenope, I'm Ivan:)16:48
navneetxyang1: you will need a publicly accessible host16:48
navneetscp working16:49
jgriffithwell... then "I'm confused" :)16:49
e0nei just using Sebastien's patch16:49
xyang1navneet: are you hosting it inside your company?16:49
jgriffithe0ne: hehe... cool16:49
navneetxyang1: thats the plan right now16:49
DuncanT-xyang1: We've got a nice public cloud if it helps ;-)16:49
jgriffithwe've got a lot of work and figuring out to do here obviously16:49
xyang1DuncanT-:  :)16:49
jgriffithlet's keep it on a weekly agenda to get updates16:49
akerrthere's always s316:50
navneetDuncant-: ll need it it free?16:50
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jungleboyjxyang1: IBM has a good one as well.  ;-)16:50
xyang1DuncanT-:  does that work with scp?16:50
jgriffithif we aren't making much progress by next week let's come up with some action plans to get this going16:50
hemnaIBM does the cloud?16:50
jgriffithpublic clouds do NO good here16:50
xyang1jungleboyj:  softlayer?16:50
jgriffithbut I suspect this was all sarcasim16:50
DuncanT-xyang1: Sure, spin up a webserver on a VM and scp into the public_html directory.... should work fine16:50
jungleboyjhemna: :-p16:50
jgriffithsarcasm even16:50
jungleboyjxyang1: Yes.16:50
xyang1jgriffith: where are you posting logs16:50
jgriffithxyang1: my own personal AWS server16:51
DuncanT-jgriffith: Public clouds are a great place to post logs....16:51
hemnaSo for FC CI, we haven't had a chance to test the PCI passthrough stuff yet.   It's on our short list though.16:51
jgriffithsorry... I didn't realize you were just talking about logs16:51
kmartinxyang1 will Dunkin' Donuts host a machine for you?16:51
jgriffithDuncanT-: yes... sorry, missed the context there16:51
jgriffithDuncanT-: but HP ain't cheap :)16:51
hemnaDuncanT-, I was actually going to fire up a vm in my HPCloud account to post our logs16:51
xyang1kmartin:  I should start working with them on that:)16:51
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kmartinxyang1: :)16:52
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jgriffithalright... we can all chat on this more in #openstack-dinder16:52
jgriffithcinder even16:52
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jgriffithOne last thing I want to throw out there...16:52
* jungleboyj likes openstack-dinder .... or openstack-dinner16:52
jgriffithhemna: funny funny :)16:52
jgriffith#topic upcoming decisions16:52
akerror openstack-tinder, the openstack dating site16:52
*** openstack changes topic to "upcoming decisions (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:52
jgriffithakerr: LMAO16:52
jgriffithok so there are two big things we need to decide upon soon16:53
jgriffithI don't want to debate them today or discuss them here16:53
navneetjgriffith: coming up with the etherpad for comparisions16:53
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jgriffithbut I want to make sure EVERYBODY is researching and gathering facts16:53
jgriffithas well as coming up with ideas16:53
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jungleboyjakerr: :-)16:53
jgriffithitem 1:  SDS abstraction layers as drivers in Cinder16:54
navneetjgriffith: whats the way forward...whr do I post the link?16:54
jgriffithThis is not JUST EMC's VIPR product16:54
hemnanavneet,  I'm rooting for that one.16:54
jgriffiththere are at least 1/2 a dozen of these types of solutions waiting behind VIPR16:54
jgriffiththey all do the same sort of thing16:54
navneethemna: I kow...I see problems with it16:55
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jgriffithdo some research please, read up on what these solutions do.  How they fit in OpenStack/Cinder16:55
jgriffithseems I've lost everyone here16:55
hemnawhat's #2?16:55
kmartinstill here16:55
jgriffith#2 is the pools implementations16:55
navneetjgriffith: etherpad is coming up....when do we discuss over it togetjer*16:56
hemnaah ok.  navneet and I jumped the gun16:56
jgriffithI'll be providing my input/opinion later this week16:56
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guitarzanjgriffith: one question16:56
jgriffithI'd like to make a decision at next weeks meeting at the latest16:56
jgriffithguitarzan: sure16:56
hemnajgriffith, +116:56
guitarzanthe thing about driver contributors having to contribute "core" code is a complete myth right?16:56
navneetjgriffith:hemna: before that wil everybody get chance to look at etherpad?16:56
hemnahopefully winston will be around to talk about his patch this week16:56
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jgriffithguitarzan: yeah... not sure where that came from exactly16:57
xyang1jgriffith: decision on SDS by next week as well?16:57
jgriffithguitarzan: it'd sure be nice16:57
guitarzanok, cool16:57
jgriffithguitarzan: and it will get you a lot of karma16:57
jgriffithbut it's not something we actually track and enforce16:57
jgriffithand I personally have no inention of doing so16:57
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akerryou can't improve perfection16:57
jgriffithxyang1: I think that would be nice16:57
DuncanT-guitarzan: That's partly my fault... somebody took my 'I have higher expectations of of SDR driver authors than normal driver authors' and extrapolated in ways I didn’t foresee16:58
flip214please send the etherpad link to the mailing list, so that it's not so easily missed16:58
hemnaguitarzan, if driver maintainers just support and maintain their drivers every release, I think that's a win.16:58
jungleboyjjgriffith: Are you referring to the etherpads from the summit?16:58
guitarzanDuncanT-: ah, that's an interesting possibility16:58
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jgriffithDuncanT-: I think it was a combination of that, one of my blog posts and *other* stuff16:58
jgriffithjungleboyj: huh?16:58
DuncanT-guitarzan: It has been my stated view since the summit16:58
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jgriffith2 minute warning16:58
jungleboyjjgriffith: What etherpads are being referred to above?  I am missing something.16:58
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jgriffithjungleboyj: navneet has proposed an etherpad to compare his pools solution to winstons16:59
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DuncanT-jungleboyj:  navneet is going to post one about pools implementations16:59
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navneetjungleboyj: yep16:59
jungleboyjjgriffith: Oh, ok.  Sorry.16:59
jgriffithis there an echo in here16:59
jungleboyjis there an echo in here16:59
hemna :)17:00
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jgriffithwe're out of time17:00
kmartinnavneet: please put a link to it on the agenda as well17:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:00
DuncanT-Time, gentlemaen, please17:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jun 18 17:00:11 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:00
jgriffiththanks everyone!17:00
openstackMinutes (text):
navneetkmartin: sure17:00
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tjones#startmeeting vmwareapi17:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Jun 18 17:01:18 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:01
tjoneshi folks17:01
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tjonesok so from our AI last time we were all going to review 2 patches to unblock some other work.  no one (including me) has reviewed them17:02
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tjonesgaryk: you around?17:03
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tjoneshmmm..  without garyk my plan is not going to work.  I was going to review them in this meeting17:04
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tjonesah there you are17:04
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mdboothOther people can review too :)17:04
tjonesso i was saying no one (including me) has reviewed the 2 patches we wanted to get reviewed from last week17:04
rgerganovhi. I will be around for 15-20min17:05
tjonesmdbooth: they are garyk patches so i wanted him here17:05
mdboothWhoa, patch set 3517:05
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mdboothtjones: Is it worth discussing rgerganov's stuff first?17:05
garyki am here17:05
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tjonesok let's pause this since rgerganov needs to drop off17:06
tjonesand get back to it17:06
tjonesrgerganov: you have stuff?17:06
rgerganovso I had updated the SPBM patch and tried to address some of the concerns that mdbooth brings into his api proposal17:06
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tjoneslink please?17:07
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rgerganovI am thinking to implement the same changes in oslo.vmware, that is separate Vim and Pbm17:08
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tjoneswe need to get john to remove -2.17:08
garyktjones: the bp has not been approved17:08
mdboothI like the patch17:09
garyki think that rado has a very nice direction17:09
mdboothIt's problematic17:09
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mdboothBecause it changes Vim in Nova in a way which is incompatible with oslo.vmware17:09
garyknot really, it is inline (i think)17:09
mdboothWhile we already have an outstanding patch to migrate to oslo.vmware17:09
mdboothWhich I am simultaneously proposing we substantially rewrite17:10
mdboothSo, in isolation I like it17:10
mdboothIn context, I think it's adding to a mess17:10
garyki am not in favor of a rewrite at the moment.17:10
garyki added my comments to the spe that you posted17:10
mdboothWell, rgerganov is proposing a rewrite17:10
garyki have yet to see if you addressed them17:10
rgerganovmdbooth, that is not true17:10
mdboothThat is, an incompatible api change17:10
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rgerganovhow is using oslo.vmware right now?17:11
mdboothI don't think it's worth making multiple incompatible api changes17:11
mdboothrgerganov: glance, I believe17:11
tjonesrgerganov: cinder and glance both17:11
* mdbooth is at home and doesn't have a source tree to hand17:11
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rgerganovI believe that we can still make API changes in oslo.vmware and increase the version17:12
kirankvI think ceilometer has already started to use oslo.vmware17:12
mdboothrgerganov: I'm in favour of api changes in oslo.vmware :)17:12
mdboothWe just need to coordinate17:12
mdboothI'm against piecemeal changes17:13
arnaudmdbooth, if you have suggestions for oslo.vmware, we have a GSoC intern who is looking at it17:13
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mdbootharnaud: I put out a bp last week for discussion17:13
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tjoneslets finish up the spbm discussion before moving on to mdbooth bp.  plus we need to get the spec approved.17:15
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mdboothIf we're going to refactor Vim and PBM, I want session transactions, sane error handling and the death of invoke_api/_call_method() :)17:16
mdboothtjones: Ok, but this was rgerganov's concern17:16
tjonesah ok17:16
rgerganovI suggest to do incremental changes in oslo.vmware17:16
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arnaud+1 rgerganov17:16
rgerganovI definitely want to separate Vim and Pbm17:16
mdboothConsider what that means, though17:17
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mdboothEvery incompatible incremental change now requires coordination with multiple projects17:17
mdboothEvery one requires a flag day17:17
mdboothYou might as well just fix it and have a single flag day17:17
mdboothIt's not a large amount of work17:17
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arnaudyou can fix it without modifying the APIs directly17:18
mdboothThe only reason we don't just Get It Done(TM) is that it'll take donkey's years in review17:18
arnaudand have the flag day later17:18
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arnaudyou don't have an early flag day and then realize17:18
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garyki do not following regarding the flag day. theinetgartion should just be a bump on the oslo.version17:20
garykwhat am i missing17:20
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rgerganovgaryk, that is my understanding as well17:20
garyktheinetgartion => integration17:20
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mdboothBumping oslo.version and updating all the code which uses it17:20
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garykbut that is in one patch17:21
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arnaudhmm no it's a patch per project using it17:21
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mdboothit's a patch per project, per update17:21
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garykbut that is atomic per project.17:22
mdboothper project, per update17:22
tjonesmdbooth: i think your concern is with the number of *incompatible* changes.  as rgerganov said incremental changes17:22
garykthat is how it is done with oslo changes17:22
garyksay for example oslo messaging17:22
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garykthe oslo code always needs to be backward compatible17:23
mdboothtjones: Right. The current implementation is quite a mess, though. There is very little you can fix in a backwards compatible way.17:23
mdboothe.g. rgerganov's simple refactoring breaks it17:23
tjoneslets try to get to a plan in the next 7 minutes as we have other stuff needing discussion.17:24
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rgerganovmdbooth, I am not sure that my change is API breaking for oslo.vmware17:24
mdboothHow about we agree to actively discuss it on the list during the week?17:24
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arnaudmdbooth, the way I see it, is you write a totally new library and for all of the existings functions you change the implementation to call the new stuff17:24
mdbootharnaud: Right. That's in my proposal, too.17:25
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tjonesim not seeing how rgerganov breaks stuff either but we are running out of time for this topic17:28
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garykhow about we set a time tomorrow to discuss this on the vwware channel?17:28
tjonesshall we agree to continue on the ML this week on this?17:28
rgerganovgaryk, +117:28
tjonesgood idea garyk.  shall you propose a time?17:29
mdboothtjones: See 2 lines changes in volumeops and vmops17:29
garykwe can try this time tomorrow unless you guys cab do a little eralier17:29
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mdboothI can't do this time tomorrow17:29
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mdboothHow early can we go?17:30
tjonesearlier is fine17:30
mdbooth2 hours earlier would be fantastic17:30
tjones9am PST17:30
tjones5pm UTC17:30
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mdboothtjones: Works for me17:31
tjones#action discuss and tomorrow in openstack-vmware at 4PM UTC (that is 8am PST)17:31
tjonesok lets go to approved BP17:31
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tjonesvui - how's it going?17:31
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vuilfine. Got some good comments re: earlier patches in the refactor review chain.17:32
vuilI am updating/rebasing the works17:32
vuilrinse and repeat from there17:32
tjonesgreat - so moving along17:32
tjonesthe 2 reviews we needed to get to (from last time) still need to be reviewed.  I don't want to do it here due to time, but they are .17:33
garykas long as you are saving water. that is what is importnat17:33
tjones#action review and
tjonesthat is blocking hotpug17:34
tjones#topic BP in review17:34
*** openstack changes topic to "BP in review (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:34
garyki tried to break them into little ones ....17:34
garykone needs to be rebased - will do tomorrow morning17:34
tjonesanyone have a BP to discuss?17:34
tjoneslooks like we lost kiran, but his spec is getting closer17:35
kirankvi got reviews last week after this meeting and have addressed them, so if reviewers can check them it would help17:35
tjonesah there you are17:35
tjones#action review
tjoneskirankv: what about
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kirankvtjones: is the one to go first17:37
tjonesok good17:37
mdboothFun! That has inter-nova locking implications.17:37
tjonesok if no more BP discussion??  we can move on17:37
KanagarajMI have following bug patches
tjones#topic bugs17:38
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:38
kirankvthe other one nova core has concerns of compute looking into datastores of another compute17:38
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x23b3fd0>17:38
tjoneslets wait a sec before bugs17:38
tjonesok you mean the 2nd on has concens, not the 1st right?17:38
mdboothtjones: Copy from another nova17:39
kirankvso if  can get reviewed that would be goof17:39
mdboothHaven't looked at the patch, btw17:39
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* mdbooth is making assumptions17:39
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tjonesok good we can focus on
tjones#topic bugs17:39
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*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:39
garykKanagarajM: thanks for addressing the comments. I have some minor ones to add.17:39
kirankvok thanks17:39
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KanagarajMsure Gary. thanks.17:40
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tjonesany other bugs?17:41
KanagarajMthere is a concern on timeout value used17:41
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arnaudI have a chain of 3 patches for the iSCSI stuff17:42
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mdboothThe iSCSI one is still open. arnaud I started reviewing your patches, btw, but I haven't finished yet17:42
KanagarajMso I would like to finalize the time out here17:42
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mdboothI was going to ask, though, that you rebase them on top of
mdboothAgain, no point in stomping on each other17:42
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arnaudmdbooth, this is making some tradeoff but I think this is fine17:43
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arnaudmdbooth, we discussed with Vui the fact17:44
tjonesKanagarajM: so you want to timeout after 7200 seconds to be consistent with cinder?17:44
arnaudthat if the compute node dies when we remove the targets17:44
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arnaudthe target will never be removed17:44
arnaudon a steady system: this should not happen, and if this happen, I don't think this is the end of the world17:45
KanagarajMyes that was the fact I followed17:45
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kirankvKanagrajM: It should be left to the earlier default and when VMFS cinder driver is used it should be set to 7200 in the conf17:45
garykkirankv: KanagarajM: yes, 180 sounds more reasonable17:45
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mdbootharnaud: I've only looked at the first patch so far, and I haven't finished with that yet17:46
mdboothI think the meat is in the second patch, right?17:46
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mdboothI think that as long as we don't have the respawning target problem it should be acceptable17:47
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arnaudanyway it will take some time. I asked Vui to look at it too17:48
mdboothi.e. that if a target exists anywhere it will exist everywhere, and the only way to rid yourself of it is to delete it everywhere before the refresh job runs17:48
vuilhaving gotten around to, but will, promise :-)17:48
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mdboothI take your point that it may not be worth spending a lot of time on an edge case17:48
mdbootharnaud: I will review them all tomorrow17:48
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arnaudok awesome! thanks a lot mdbooth17:49
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tjonesKanagarajM: you ok with overridding the default if the VMFS driver is used?17:49
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KanagarajMI will set to 180 seconds as default in the code17:49
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tjonesok any other bugs?17:50
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mdbootharnaud: How about the rebase? Principal change is a refactor to consolidate volumeops and volume_util17:50
KanagarajMI have another one17:50
tjonesKanagarajM: ok17:50
mdbootharnaud: However, I don't expect that to affect the review in any substantive way17:50
arnaudmdbooth, I will look at that after the meeting17:50
mdboothIt's just code motion17:50
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garyki say ship it :)17:51
tjonesKanagarajM: what was your other one?17:51
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KanagarajM vc driver breaks instances.hypervisor_hostname value
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mdboothSurprised they have the same morefs17:53
garykthat is why the uuid was suggested17:54
vuilmorefs typically just grows in monotonically increasing numeric values17:54
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kirankvKanagrajM: Id rather put the uuid at the end than in between, makes a better reading17:54
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vuil*thinking about icehouse->juno upgrade implications"17:54
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mdboothAh, different centers17:55
garyksomewhat related - at the summit we were asked to drop the nodename support (multi cluster support). i am looking into that17:55
kirankvvuil: it is handles by updating the hostname17:55
vuilmdbooth yep17:55
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mdboothvuil: Why not an upgrade job?17:55
KanagarajMI tried the icehouse to Juno for an instance17:55
KanagarajMand worked properly17:55
kirankvgaryk: do you have a spec for that?17:56
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garykkirankv: i am in the process of drafting a mail.17:56
garyki'll shoot it past you first as you did this work17:56
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KanagarajMthe normalize_nodename method take care of it17:56
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kirankvgaryk: thanks17:57
vuilmdbooth: sounds like it is handled in the patch re: upgrade, will look at it further17:57
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mdboothvuil: Sounds like removing multi cluster makes this go away17:57
kirankvmdbooth: this is an edge case, the user has to create the same named clusters in the same order to hit the bug17:57
mdboothi.e. what garyk said17:57
tjonesok 3 minutes - apart from the ordering of displayname/uuid - any other issues?17:58
garyki think that the normalize will help, but need to look at it in more detail17:58
KanagarajMyes but I see this bug in multiple test env17:58
vuilI can see it happening a lot in CI type envs17:58
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garykyeah, the times for the football games are ridiculous. tjones can you please escalate to management17:58
tjonesclearly this needs to be fixed - but need to make sure it doesn't break other htings17:59
tjonesgaryk:  you mean soccer?  :-D17:59
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kirankvagree gary17:59
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mdboothtjones: One to throw over the wall and run away: given that we have no core reviewers, could we do with nominating our own tech lead?18:00
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tjonesok 1 minute for #open discussion18:00
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tjoneslets move over to openstack-vmware for that discussion18:00
mdboothNot enough time to discuss, but one to mull for next time, maybe?18:00
* mdbooth has to shoot this evening18:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"18:00
mdboothand that's hardly pressing18:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jun 18 18:00:43 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:00
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notmynameswift team meeting time19:01
notmyname#startmeeting swift19:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Jun 18 19:01:15 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'19:01
notmynamewho's here?19:01
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notmynameportante said he'd be late. and creiht has to leave early19:02
notmynamethis week, as normal for recent meetings, we gotta talk abou tstorage policies. but I hope this is the last meeting to ask when it will be merged19:03
notmyname#topic storage policy status19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "storage policy status (Meeting topic: swift)"19:03
notmynamewe've had the patches proposed to master for quite a while now19:03
notmynameand a freeze on other stuff landing19:03
notmynamebut it's getting to be "too long" to keep at it much longer19:03
notmynameso there is a thought of "just merge it" unless there is a serious obvious flaw and the iterate in QA and later19:04
notmynameI'm not sure I have a specific question there. what are everyone's thoughts on the state of things?19:05
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torgomaticseems to me like it's close enough; I'm inclined to merge it and fix things as they come up19:05
creihtI agree19:06
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torgomaticI'm down to nitpicking stuff in tests at this point19:06
zaitcevMerging it allows for releases for wider distribution.19:06
notmynamewith a Swift 2.0 release (after a 2 week RC period) once it lands in master? that's been the plan so far19:06
zaitcevThat's what kernel's -rc releases were for19:06
notmynameand what I'd still like to do19:06
peluse_and allows for easier tweaking19:06
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notmynamepeluse_: ya, I think that's important19:07
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claygweeeee - i was doing comments19:07
acolesagree, except would like to have the timestamp format decided first. i think.19:07
clayglost track of time19:07
mattoliverauWell the problem is, until its merged, there is a virtual dam so no other fixes can get through now, they've been scrutenized.. so I think its merge time and everybody get ready for fire fighting.19:07
claygacoles: everyone has there pet-peeves ;)19:07
notmynameclayg: no worrie :-)19:07
acolesclayg: just saying :)19:08
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* peluse_ thinks he might hear a drum roll19:08
notmynameclayg: summary, and outstanding question, is: do we call it "good enough to merge" and then iterate in RC and later?19:09
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claygnotmyname: torgomatic's been putting his +2's out there where he thinks they're "good enough to merge"19:09
claygnotmyname: I think others have been as well19:10
claygnotmyname: I think everyone wants them to be good enough - but keeps finding stuff I mucked up?19:10
clayg... and typos and leftover prints ;)19:10
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notmynameright. of the things that you are tracking that are outstanding I think the most impactful one is about the timestamp format, right?19:11
claygnotmyname: yeah... and the list endpoints thing... and the header/literal thing - but that one really would be easier to do as a single patch on the chain rather than trying to interleave it19:11
acoles+1 for leaving the header/literal change for later19:12
notmynameok. the header/literal change I agree would be better after the fact in one patch19:12
claygand the timestamp change has been sort of a burden to manage since it touches so much - when I go to merge down a fixup into an earlier change I have to go and fix all the calls to the class that doesn't exist yet19:12
peluse_+1 for the same on list endpoints, what's the impact there if that takes another week?19:12
claygok, well so on the timestamp format - has anyone besides acoles commented if they think 12 digits is the right number?19:13
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notmynameacoles: why 12 over 8?19:13
claygor even if the value of not doing the deca-mirosecond bump is worth all the churn/risk of chaging how we resolve time!?19:13
claygnotmyname: it's BIGGER (obviously)19:14
acolesnotmyname: well, i shot for 16 decimal and clayg met me half way19:14
claygnotmyname: since when is bigger not better!?19:14
peluse_clayg:  my only comment is that if we think it needs to be bigger do it now but I think its OK19:14
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torgomaticit's easier to have extra, but widening it later is hard, so I say use more19:14
claygtorgomatic: that sounds like a vote for 16!19:14
torgomaticscrew it, we're using 256 digits19:14
claygwhoa, torgomatic went there19:14
claygit's only bytes19:14
acolestorgomatic: clearly i lack ambition19:15
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claygI think the 64 digit number system was the way to go19:15
notmynameok, timestamp bump to 1619:15
peluse_rock it19:15
notmynameclayg: and the list_endpoints change is to do the auto v1/v2 detection based on the underscore?19:16
clayglets see... 10 billion objects times 17 bytes...19:16
claygnotmyname: it's to make it so the endpoitns response for the non-zero policies are useable19:16
claygnotmyname: for backwards compat; yeah I think you do something to v2 the response19:16
tdasilvaclayg: there's also an outstanding comment from gholt on the two vector timestamp patch, it that a concern?19:16
peluse_clayg:  I can always take that for yo post merge if you want (LE)19:17
claygtdasilva: I *think* he just wanted me to not be such a jackass in the commit talking about stuff that doesn't exist19:17
claygtdasilva: but you know... he wouldn't ever *say* that19:17
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notmynamelist_endpoints can wait until after a 2.0 release I think. or perhaps be finished in the RC period. we'll have another release after this one before the juno integrated release. it should be done by then19:18
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notmynamealso, pconstantine is on vacation this week, and I think we can ask him/zerovm to contribute for that19:19
peluse_so just vector width pre-merge?19:19
notmynamepeluse_: yes, that's my opinion19:19
claygumm... so did we decide on 16 digits for the offset?  seems like a lot for the only existing use case which only needs to represent like idk - maybe an integer as high as.... 12!19:19
creihtgotta run sorry19:19
notmynamecreiht: thanks19:19
claygnotmyname: oh it's not that much code, and pconstantine's patches take forever to merge :P19:19
claygnotmyname: but i'm fine with going in post merge19:19
torgomaticI think acoles wanted real timestamps to fit in there, so 16 decimal would work, I think?19:20
torgomaticI mean, normalize_timestamp() only uses 15 decimal digits19:20
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claygnotmyname: but it's sorta weird how the list endpoints trys to support storage policies but doesn't really provide a useable response19:20
peluse_you're welcome19:20
acolesclayg: 16 hex takes us way past year 2286, no? maybe overkill19:20
notmynameclayg: describe not usable. as in badly formatted or as in just plain wrong19:20
claygtorgomatic: oh oh oh - so are we going with 15 digits!?19:20
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acolestorgomatic: i'm cool with hex. or base 64.19:21
claygnotmyname: like it tells you an object is here and then you go there and the server says it's not there19:21
notmynameclayg: ack19:21
torgomaticclayg: we'll go with max(all the serious suggestions)19:21
claygnotmyname: (becauase you didn't send the right storage policy index, because you don't KNOW the storage policy index)19:21
torgomaticso probably not 256 hex digits :)19:21
notmynameacoles: but the second part is for finer resolution of the first part. not for representation of the timestamp. it's not a timestamp itself, right? its basically a counter19:21
notmynameclayg: right19:21
claygnotmyname: in acoles world you can't really do a fixed counter19:22
acolesnotmyname: i think clayg and converged on it being delta time from the normal timestamp part19:22
claygtorgomatic: yeah if we keep with hex (which seems a totally reasonable usage of available ascii bytes) then we really don't need 16 whole digits19:22
claygacoles: well part of that was just to deal with limited space, if we have more room it may be simpler to troubleshoot with extra digts19:23
notmynameclayg: what19:23
claygacoles: my main concern was adding all these bytes that I don't really use - even the fast post stuff is just sort of an idea - it may not acctually turn out to be the best way do it19:23
torgomaticclayg: true; 9999999999999999 fits in 14 decimal digits19:23
claygnotmyname: wat?19:24
notmynameclayg: what's the cost of updating it to 16 hex digits? another 2 days of review? or is it something that can be done today?19:24
claygnotmyname: idk, have to see how many tests break - but why did we decide on 16 hex digits?19:24
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acolesclayg: fair point.19:24
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notmynameclayg: maybe I misread above?19:25
notmynameif not 16 then what?19:25
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notmynameI guess that's the question :-)19:25
notmynameoh, acoles said 1219:25
claygmeh, it's not that many tests - i mean there's lots of asserts/expects in a loop but it seems like there's only a handful of tests that get all anal about the literal value of the timestamp (maybe that's ok)19:26
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claygmathbot: 16 ** 1219:26
claygstupid mathbot19:26
torgomatic16 hex seems like a reasonable upper bound on the things people have asked for19:27
claygyeah it's a way higher resolution than the existing timestamps19:27
torgomaticalso, it's 64 bits, which is a nice round number, so there should be fewer questions about it19:27
torgomaticinstead of like "why 14 hex digits? what's going on there?"19:28
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notmynametorgomatic: makes the port to C easier?19:28
torgomaticI'll get right on that19:28
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acolesso if we go large, its easier to shrink afterwards, if we decide there's no need. but not other way round. right?19:29
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torgomaticor just leave big and padded with zeros; that's easy too19:29
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notmynameok, so what are we doing? clayg updates the patch to do 16 bytes?19:29
claygok, well 12 hex is *almost* as big as 15 9's which is sorta the max time representable in swift with full resolution19:30
acolestorgomatic: yeah, just thinking about clayg's space usage concern.19:30
* peluse_ has to pay attention to another meeting for 15 min or so...19:30
torgomatic16 bytes doesn't seem like a lot in the grand scheme of things, but it doesn't matter all that much to me19:30
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torgomaticas long as it's useful for what all folks want it for19:31
claygeither way i'd like to point out again that the reconciler doesn't need any of this (decamicro second bump worked fine) and even if it does want an offset to make reconciliation transparent it definately does need to do it 16 ** 16 times19:31
notmynameit's not 16 bytes. its 8 more that today (and onlu 4 more than the proposed 12)19:31
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notmynameis anyone arguing against 16 bytes?19:31
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torgomaticnot I19:32
claygo/ it's overkill at best19:32
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notmynameclayg: what do you want instead? the current 8? or 12? or?19:32
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claygbut i guess we could eventually use the leading digits to do something to fix the 2286 bug19:32
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claygtorgomatic's probably right harder to add more19:33
* portante wanders in ...19:33
claygi guess that's what harddisks or for19:33
notmynameportante: talking about the resolution for the second part of the timestamp19:33
portantek thanks19:33
claygyay more bytes!  why aren't we doing 256 again?19:33
portanteclayg: because inode cluster allocation at higher inode sizes becomes problematic19:34
portanteif by 256 you meant inode size on xfs19:34
notmynameportante: no. not at all :-)19:34
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acolessuggestion: move to 12 or 16 for RC, i will try to progress something on fast-copy to validate usefulness or not, review number digits next week?19:37
acoles(realise that means work right now making change)19:37
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notmynameacoles: that's a good proposal I think19:37
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notmynamedo 16 now19:38
claygacoles: no I think 8 was the wrong number, so it's either 12 or 16 and i think the tempature is leaning twoards 16 - which is TON of room for the eixting use case (more resolution than we have in normalize'd timestamps) - but it's a good round number and no one can imagine any one wanting more than that19:38
acolesi meant fast-post of course!19:38
claygacoles: it'd be nice if you could make copy faster too19:39
claygacoles: would three dementional time help?19:39
acolessure would, and i can trim every 16 bytes down to 8 :)19:39
notmynameok. yay resolution, then19:40
notmynamechange it to 16 bytes19:40
notmynamethen, if there is nothing else big (and nothing is known now), clayg and I will work on getting in landed as a merge commit from a feature branch19:40
notmynameso that means one more patch chain push for the 16 bytes19:41
claygs/clay and I/notmyname/19:41
notmynameclayg: ack19:41
claygnotmyname: :P19:41
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torgomaticgate pass rate seems decent right now; if the merge-commit dance takes too long, we might be able to simply land all the patches19:42
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* torgomatic has no idea how long a new feature branch would take to set up19:42
notmynametorgomatic: not long, I think19:42
torgomaticokay then; never mind :)19:43
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notmynameeveryone ok with the state of things then?19:43
claygumm... did anyone look at the merge_timestamps changes - that was the big diff from last night19:44
claygacoles: had a thing the replicator where a corrupt db could blow up until the auditor cycles19:44
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acolesyeah, i wasn't sure on that one whether it was so different to what might already happen19:45
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claygacoles: pretty sure I could get a test that would make replicate 50019:46
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claygtorgomatic: some of those print statements might be useful to the next guy!19:48
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notmynameI think that's it for the meeting then19:50
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notmynamethanks everyone for coming19:51
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:51
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jun 18 19:51:22 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:51
openstackMinutes (text):
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cutforthnotmyname: hows the limb?19:51
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notmynamecutforth: time to take meds. they wore off and I'm cranky19:51
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cutforthnotmyname: ok. i'll wait an hour before i ask any other questions  :)19:53
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openstackmspreitz: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'20:00
mspreitz#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Jun 18 20:00:19 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mspreitz. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:00
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mspreitzroll call20:00
zanebmspreitz volunteered to chair this week, btw20:01
zanebcurrently taking volunteers to chair a fortnight from now20:01
zanebthat's in 2 weeks, for my American friends ;)20:02
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mspreitzPls respond directly to Zane about chairing20:02
mspreitz#topic review action items from last meeting20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "review action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: heat)"20:02
mspreitzZane, you had three, some in concert with others20:02
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zanebdo you have the link handy?20:03
zanebzaneb sync with andrew_plunk on rackspace CI job20:03
zanebI didn't do that20:03
mspreitz#info zaneb sync with andrew_plunk on rackspace CI job - not yet20:04
zanebdoesn't look like he's around to give us an update20:04
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zanebzaneb sync with stevebaker on heat-slow job & making it voting20:04
randallburtzaneb:  poked him. he'll be here shortly20:04
zanebstevebaker: got any update on that?20:04
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randallburtafaik, we have the job set up and running but I haven't seen it vote yet20:04
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stevebakerso there was a fix recently, most of the failures were caused by IP address clash20:05
zanebrandallburt: because it's passing, or because voting is not working?20:05
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randallburtzaneb:  I think because its not working, but andrew_plunk is here now20:05
stevebakerI hoped that would make heat-slow reliable enough to be voting for everyone20:05
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andrew_plunkyeah it is setup randallburt, zanb20:06
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andrew_plunkI assumed it was voting, if nobody has seen a vote from raxci then I will double check20:06
stevebakerIts better, but there are still failures bug #129756020:06
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1297560 in tempest "*tempest-dsvm-neutron-heat-slow fails with WaitConditionTimeout" [Undecided,In progress]
zaneb#info raxci job is set up and should be voting20:06
stevebakerthere are no longer fedora boot timeouts, but set_hostname failures20:07
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stevebakertl;dr, I'd like to hold out on fixing the job to be voting for everyone20:07
* SpamapS blames systemd20:07
zanebzaneb sync with stevebaker on metadata api compat patch20:07
stevebakerSpamapS, I'm not so sure. I'd like to blame neutron20:07
zanebI think that one went in, right?20:07
SpamapSstevebaker: neutron has been integrated into systemd.20:08
zanebblaming neutron is usually a safe bet :D20:08
SpamapSalong with bash and corn flakes.20:08
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bgorskio/ sorry I'm late20:08
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mspreitzIs there a consensus on holding off making the job voting?20:08
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SpamapSLeave it non-voting20:09
stevebakerzaneb, its in. I'd like to re-propose this backport which includes restoring the metadata attribute,n,z20:09
zanebstevebaker: but we were going to make it voting for just heat, right?20:09
SpamapSIt needs to be really solid.20:09
mspreitzright, voting just for heat was the plan20:09
SpamapSWe don't want to be the gate crashers.20:09
stevebakerzaneb, we were, one thing that occured to me though is that any other project could break heat-slow with one commit, then we can't land anything20:09
SpamapSit is still a problem if it only votes on Heat20:09
SpamapSbecause a heat fail == gate reset20:09
zaneb#agreed heat-slow job will remain non-voting until current issues are fixed20:10
SpamapSWe can add it back in when it gets back up to 90% pass.20:10
mspreitzyes.  next20:10
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mspreitzis the API compatability patch merged?20:10
zanebmspreitz: yes20:10
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mspreitz#info zaneb sync with stevebaker on metadata api compat patch - merged20:11
mspreitz#topic additional agenda items20:11
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zanebMid-cycle meetup20:11
mspreitzAlready on the agenda20:11
zaneboh, good :)20:11
mspreitzAnybody got anything else?20:12
* mspreitz hears crickets20:12
mspreitz#topic mid-cycle meetup20:12
*** openstack changes topic to "mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: heat)"20:12
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mspreitzZane, what's the latest?20:13
mspreitzWe are now discussing two meetups20:14
zanebI think shardy and stevebaker are definitely going to attend the TripleO meetup20:14
SpamapSshadower: can you clarify your entry in ?20:14
stevebakerI could go to either tripleo or heat meetup, but I've decided going to tripleo with shardy20:14
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zanebit seems like most people can go to both20:14
zanebor either, I should say20:14
stevebakerI'm assuming I'll be seeing you ugly mugs in Paris20:14
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SpamapSstevebaker: I think that's the right call, and you and shardy will be in high demand as TripleO will likely want to chat about
zanebSpamapS can't go to the TripleO one, and would be struggling in August20:15
zaneband tspatzier can't go in August20:15
SpamapSI'm wide open after 8/1320:15
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SpamapShave blocked the entire last half of August off for this just in case. ;)20:15
stevebakerSpamapS, yes, probably actually good that you won't be there (no offense ;)20:15
tspatzierzaneb: yeah, bad timing, but I think we can get someone from our team there20:16
zanebSpamapS: from, or after?20:16
zanebSpamapS: August 13 is a Wednesday20:16
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SpamapS8/13 - 8/31 I can travel to timbuktu if need be.. wherever Heat needs me. :)20:16
SpamapSzaneb: fully aware20:16
zanebactually, tspatzier can't make either week, so I guess we could do it the second week20:16
SpamapSzaneb: 8/13 is the third first day of school in a row for my three sons.20:16
zanebforgot that new piece of info20:17
SpamapSas in, 8/11 is 1st day of school at new school for 2 year old..20:17
tspatzieryep, do not make it depend on my schedule20:17
SpamapS8/12 is 1st day at new school for 4 year old..20:17
SpamapS8/13 is 1st day at new school for 11 year old20:17
SpamapShighly stressful week.20:17
zanebdoes anyone else have a preference?20:17
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zanebanyone need/want to work with shardy and stevebaker at the meetup?20:18
zaneblifeless: does the TripleO team have a preference on whether you get shardy+stevebaker only or all of us?20:18
stevebakerI'm assuming the heat meetup will be mostly about convergence?20:18
zanebI think that will be a big part, but not the only part20:19
mspreitzConvergence and convergence, I expect20:19
zanebthe other data point is that SpamapS can potentially bring some of his new team if we have it in August20:20
mspreitzI meant that a meeting that late will probably be also talking about getting to a coherent end-point20:20
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zanebmspreitz: heh, terminology overload20:21
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mspreitzSo I'm hearing questions but not a lot of answers from people about attendance20:21
lifelesszaneb: I don't think so - its a working event not a planning event for us20:21
mspreitzWhen does the bug fixing push begin?20:22
zanebso, one one hand, it'd be good to have a meetup with the people who will be working on Convergence20:22
zanebotoh, it sucks to have that conversation without shardy and stevebaker in the room20:23
SpamapSSo it's not a time to have big conversations.20:23
SpamapSIt is a time to land code.20:23
randallburtpunt and try again with more planning in k?20:23
stevebakerI shall be there in spirit20:23
SpamapSWe should actually be planning the K mid cycle now too.20:23
randallburtSpamapS:  +120:24
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mspreitz#agreed no second meetup20:24
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mspreitz#agreed start planning K early20:24
zanebwait, what are we +1'ing?20:24
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SpamapSSince the summit is in .fr .. and mid-cycle is in the winter.. I suggest we host it in Los Angeles. :) Unfortunately, HP has no facility here. ;)20:24
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tspatzierzaneb: to plan a k mid-cycle meet up early20:25
* randallburt was only agreeing with early planning for the k mid-cycle.20:25
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SpamapSzaneb: that we shouldn't wait until the summit to start planning the mid-cycle.20:25
randallburtpunting on this mid-cycle still seems to be up in the air.20:25
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zanebthat's what I thought20:25
mspreitzLet me do this carefully20:25
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zanebmspreitz: I think you can do #undo20:25
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Agreed object at 0x2690c50>20:25
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Agreed object at 0x2365550>20:26
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mspreitzwho agrees to have just one meetup this cycle, the one with tipleO?20:26
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mspreitzand who disagrees?20:26
mspreitzseparately we will talka bout K20:26
* zaneb is on the fence20:26
* randallburt is on the same fence20:27
zanebSpamapS: what's your gut instinct?20:27
stevebakerAs someone who is not going, I think a second meetup is a good idea. SpamapS can get some momentum going on convergence in an environment less intense than Summit20:27
SpamapSzaneb: If it is only me pulling people to the separate meetup, I say just have the one.20:27
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SpamapSBut it is also (potentially, unconfirmed) a few more HP developers that can only come to the later one, and shadower.20:28
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SpamapSSo even if just me and shadower and 3 guys from Bangalore got together somewhere for 3 days, I'd be for doing it.20:29
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SpamapSBecause we get a lot of clarity from pair-programming on real code.20:29
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randallburtSpamapS:  you need one more guy then ;)20:29
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mspreitzIf Rackspace continues to be willing to host, I see no reason to squash20:29
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zanebok, I'm starting to lean toward August20:30
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randallburtRedHat was hosting20:30
SpamapSrandallburt: there's always somebody on break. Union rules. ;)20:30
randallburtlast I checked.20:30
zanebmspreitz: yeah, Red Hat20:30
mspreitzsorry, mixed up my Rs20:30
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zanebI'm told that's not a problem20:30
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mspreitzIf we have a willing host and some willing attendees, then let's go ahead20:30
mspreitzI move for unanimous consent to have the August meetup too20:31
randallburtsounds good to me then. Will need a pretty solid agenda soon, though.20:31
zanebwhat do people think about duration? 3 days?20:31
randallburtno more than 3 IMO.20:31
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SpamapSright, 3 working days is good.20:31
zanebthis would be week of Aug 19-2320:32
zanebso maybe 19-2120:32
SpamapSTu - Th, maximum family convenience. ;)20:32
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mspreitz(I was just translating dates)20:32
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mspreitzAgreement on Tu--Th ?20:33
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zanebI actually meant 18-2020:33
zanebie Mon-Wed20:33
mspreitzAug 18 is Monday20:33
zanebbut if people are happy with Tue-Thu20:33
mspreitzI goofed too20:33
SpamapSM-W is fine .. any day that week is fine.20:34
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zanebforgot I put the dates in etherpad as Tu-F20:34
mspreitzDoes anybody have a preference?20:34
zanebok, let's go M-W20:35
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mspreitzgoing ... going ...20:35
zanebI'll attempt to book the space and then make an announcement on the ML20:35
mspreitz#agreed have the second meetup, Aug 19--2120:35
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mspreitzNext: K20:36
zaneb#action zaneb book space for the meetup and then make an announcement on the ML20:36
mspreitzDo we agree to plan an early mid-cycle meetup in K?20:36
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randallburtat least I hope we do20:36
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mspreitzThat planning to be done during a Heat session at the summit?20:37
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zanebor before20:37
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zanebbut we probably don't need to do it right now20:37
mspreitzDuring a meeting in the runup to the summit?20:37
zaneblet's dump this responsibility on the next PTL ;)20:38
tspatzierstevebaker: Brisbane would be interesting. Or Wellington?20:38
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mspreitzRemind me: when is election result, compared to meeting cessation before summit?20:38
zanebtspatzier: I'm guessing you've never flown from Germany to NZ before ;)20:38
stevebakertspatzier, I'd be happy to host, but believe me, flights would be complicated and expensive20:39
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zanebmspreitz: iirc it's a couple of weeks before20:39
tspatzierzaneb, stevebaker: I can imagine ;-)20:39
mspreitzI'm OK with dumping this on the next PTL then.20:39
mspreitzAny objection?20:39
zanebcertainly not from me ;)20:40
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mspreitz#action ${next PTL} before summit plan an early mid-cycle meetup20:40
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mspreitz#topic critical issues20:41
*** openstack changes topic to "critical issues (Meeting topic: heat)"20:41
mspreitzAnybody got any?20:41
zaneb#action add mid-cycle meetup planning to Heat PTL guide on wiki20:41
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1331720 in heat "missing TripleO heat metadata" [Undecided,In progress]20:41
SpamapSWe had the one critical issue20:41
zanebthat ^ seems to be breaking everyone today :(20:42
SpamapSyeah that one20:42
SpamapSin the gate now20:42
zanebmy bad20:42
SpamapSI think it is time to have cfn API tempest tests20:42
SpamapSpretty simple to catch this one.20:42
SpamapSI will take that action20:42
zaneband also time to have native APIs for in-instance stuff20:43
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SpamapSsince I've written a non-boto based CFN API implementation already in os-collect-config20:43
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stevebakerSpamapS, they should be implemented as tempest boto thirdparty20:43
SpamapSzaneb: we have native API's for in-instance20:43
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mspreitzzaneb: what do you mean by that?20:43
SpamapSstevebaker: boto's cfn is _entirely_ broken20:43
SpamapShence os-collect-config :)20:44
zanebsignalling to waitconditions goes through the cfn API, and that sucks20:44
SpamapSzaneb: not anymore20:44
zanebalso, alarms20:44
stevebakerSpamapS, once custom images can be built os-*-config can be tested.
zanebwhy are you still using the cfn api then?20:44
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zanebnot that I am going to complain if you write tests for it20:44
mspreitzSpamapS: a bit of explanation please?20:45
SpamapSzaneb: because this hasn't landed yet
zanebah, excellent20:46
SpamapSmspreitz: we didn't used to have native ways of inspecting meta-data or sending signals. stevebaker fixed that20:46
stevebakeruntil tokens get re-used, cfn will be quicker20:46
zanebsignal() needs a docstring ;)20:46
SpamapSstevebaker: right, the patch chain leading up to that is implementing an on-disk token cache. :)20:46
stevebakerSpamapS, \o/20:47
stevebakerI need to go now, school run20:47
zanebI think we are about done anyway20:47
SpamapSTripleO reviewers are buried tho.. so unfortunately it will take some time. :-P20:47
mspreitzAnything else on this topic?20:47
SpamapSnay say I unto thee20:48
mspreitz#topic opens20:48
*** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: heat)"20:48
mspreitzAnybody want to raise anything else?20:48
SpamapSPlease review specs!20:49
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SpamapSif you have not done so yet, add heat-specs to your subscribed repos20:49
tspatzier+1 SpamapS - that's what everyone should do!20:49
zaneb#info if you have not done so yet, add heat-specs to your subscribed repos20:49
zanebthat's one for the minutes ;)20:50
mspreitzOK, done.20:50
mspreitzAnything else?20:50
zanebmspreitz: excellent job, thank you sir20:50
mspreitzI have one item myself20:50
mspreitzI have a bug regarding a combo: flat DHCP nova networking, new autoscaling group, scale up webhook fails20:51
mspreitzis any body or bot testing this?20:51
BillArnoldmspreitz bug #?20:51
mspreitzone other factor: giving network name to OS::Nova::Server20:51
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1327406 in nova "The One And Only network is variously visible" [Undecided,In progress]20:52
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mspreitzI'm not clear on what the gate is testing in this neighborhood20:53
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mspreitzPathology is this: scale up webhook -> nova call whose context says is-admin = false -> no networks visible -> lookup name fails20:55
zanebso it's a problem with the trust-token?20:55
mspreitzI think that last part is a Nova bug, but maybe there is also a problem with Heat or Keystone or Nova wrt trusts here20:55
zanebor the problem is that we're not using the trust-token when we should be?20:55
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mspreitzA trust is being made and used20:56
mspreitzbut by the time it gets into Nova it has is-admin=false20:56
mspreitzwebhook hit causes trust to be translated into token20:56
mspreitzwhen nova gets that token the context says is-admin=false20:56
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zanebthis single-flag-for-admin-ness needs to diaf20:57
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zanebmspreitz: I suggest you talk to shardy20:57
zanebhe is expert in the ways of keystone20:57
mspreitzzaneb: thanks20:58
mspreitztime winding down20:58
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mspreitzlast call20:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"20:59
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jun 18 20:59:02 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:59
openstackMinutes (text):
zanebthanks mspreitz!20:59
mspreitzzaneb: you're welcome20:59
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