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| yamahata | hello | 05:00 |
|---|---|---|
| OSM | Hello Yamahata | 05:01 |
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| yisun | hi | 05:02 |
| yamahata | yisun: hi | 05:02 |
| yamahata | #startmeeting servicevm-device-manager | 05:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 17 05:02:42 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:02 | |
| Christian_M | hi | 05:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'servicevm_device_manager' | 05:02 |
| yamahata | wait minutes for others | 05:03 |
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| yamahata | s3wong will skip this meeting because he's at mid cycle meeting | 05:03 |
| *** hs634 has joined #openstack-meeting | 05:04 | |
| yamahata | and it's midnight there. | 05:04 |
| Christian_M | Will others skip it too ? | 05:04 |
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| yamahata | I'm not sure. Maybe today's meeting would be short. | 05:05 |
| yamahata | Okay let's get started | 05:06 |
| yamahata | #topic Announcement | 05:06 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcement (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:06 | |
| yamahata | irc channel #tacker is available. | 05:06 |
| yamahata | Last week I announced, but it was secret mode somehow. Now it's visible for all. | 05:07 |
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| yamahata | request for stackforge repo is still under review. 1 +1 now. | 05:07 |
| yamahata | It has taken longer than I expected. Hopefully soon | 05:08 |
| Christian_M | Who can add +1, -1 ? Everyone of just 'core' members ? | 05:08 |
| yamahata | #topic Action Items from the last week | 05:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Items from the last week (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:08 | |
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| yamahata | #undo | 05:08 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x1f44790> | 05:08 |
| balajip | yamahata:are we going to change IRC channel to #tacker from next meeting? | 05:08 |
| yamahata | Anita Kuno gave +1 | 05:08 |
| yamahata | balajip: no. IRC meeting will be held at #openstack-meeting for meeting log | 05:09 |
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| yamahata | I think Anita Kuno is one of cores | 05:09 |
| balajip | ok | 05:09 |
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| yamahata | #topic Action Items from the last week | 05:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action Items from the last week (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:10 | |
| yamahata | s3won conntacted rossella_s. she isn't actively working on l2-gateway stuff. But please keep her in cycles. | 05:10 |
| *** OSM is now known as songole | 05:11 | |
| yamahata | I've contacted Eric Moe for VLAN-aware-VM, but didn't get reply. | 05:11 |
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| yamahata | So I've create spec for l2-gateway based on the existing BP. | 05:12 |
| yamahata | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100278/ l2-gateway spec | 05:12 |
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| yamahata | I created a wiki page for neutron port attributes | 05:12 |
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| yamahata | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/neutron-port-attributes | 05:13 |
| yamahata | #topic project-incubation | 05:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "project-incubation (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:13 | |
| yamahata | not much progress since the last week | 05:14 |
| yamahata | After repository creation, API/data model will be discussed with gerrit | 05:14 |
| yamahata | #topic nfv followup | 05:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "nfv followup (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:15 | |
| yamahata | I think no much since last week. | 05:15 |
| yamahata | Does anyone have anything? | 05:15 |
| yisun | Are we going to consolidate l2-gateway with the vlan bp proposed by Ian? | 05:16 |
| balajip | yamahata:Usecase section has to be updated for the given link | 05:16 |
| yamahata | #topic blueprint follow up | 05:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprint follow up (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:16 | |
| yamahata | yisun: yes. I think we should. | 05:16 |
| yisun | yamahata: got it, thanks | 05:17 |
| yamahata | balajip: which link? | 05:17 |
| balajip | yamahata:https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/neutron-port-attributes | 05:17 |
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| yamahata | balajip: it's a wiki. Can you please fix it? | 05:18 |
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| yamahata | #action balajip fix the link | 05:18 |
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| balajip | yamahata:ok | 05:19 |
| yamahata | For vlan trunk port, we have three proposal and we should consolidate and unite. | 05:19 |
| yamahata | So far Ian hasn't replied yet. | 05:20 |
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| yamahata | I expect l2-gateway proposal needs discussion to be refined. | 05:20 |
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| yamahata | I also created a spec for unfirewall port as OVS ML2 portsecurity extension | 05:21 |
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| yamahata | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99873/ ML2 OVS portsecurity extension | 05:21 |
| yisun | yamahata: I thought Ian also created a similar bp, didn’t he? | 05:22 |
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| yamahata | yisun: yes. His BP is something similar to VLAN trunk port. but it doesn't include any concrete data model/API. | 05:22 |
| yisun | But it seems that yours is moving much faster | 05:22 |
| yamahata | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97714/ VLAN trunking networks for NFV | 05:23 |
| yisun | yamahata: I thought that he also proposing unfirewall, but I’m sure if he has created a bp or not | 05:23 |
| yamahata | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97715/ NFV unaddressed interfaces | 05:24 |
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| yamahata | His unfirewall proposal is unaddressed port == unfirewall port | 05:24 |
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| yamahata | I left review message to point the link of ML2 OVS portsecurity | 05:24 |
| yisun | yamahata: got it | 05:25 |
| yamahata | For routervm, unfirewalled port with address is needed. | 05:25 |
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| yisun | yamahata: btw- I did not see you propose any API in your portsecurity extension | 05:26 |
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| yisun | how a ml2 ovs knows when to disable the portsecurity? | 05:26 |
| yamahata | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99873/ | 05:27 |
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| yisun | yamahat: yes, I read it. but I did not see any new APIs | 05:27 |
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| yisun | you only mentioned that ML2 plugin will support securitygroup extension | 05:28 |
| yamahata | yisun: port will have a new attribute to disable security | 05:28 |
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| yamahata | yisun: neutron/extensions/portsecurity.py defines API. I should have mentioned it in the spec. | 05:28 |
| yisun | yamahata: ok | 05:29 |
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| yamahata | yisun: network and port will have a new attribute, port_security_enabled, default true. | 05:29 |
| yamahata | The value will be sent to ovs agent. the port will be set up based on the value | 05:29 |
| yisun | yamahata: got it, let me check with Gary Duan to see if this is all we want. We hacked neutron to turn off the securitygroup | 05:30 |
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| yamahata | yisun: Cool. If Gary Duan have alreay a patch, can we share it? | 05:30 |
| yamamoto | it’s shame portsecurity has no docs here http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-network/2.0/content/API_extensions.html | 05:31 |
| yisun | yamahata: what we have is a “real” hack, but let me find Gary and check with him tomorrow | 05:31 |
| yamahata | yamamoto: Then we should also document it. | 05:31 |
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| yamahata | yisun: got it. | 05:31 |
| yamahata | yamamoto: then, the spec needs to be updated to mention documentation? | 05:32 |
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| yamahata | anything else? | 05:33 |
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| yamahata | #action yisun fin Gary and check with him tomorrow for reusable patch for ML2 OVS port security | 05:33 |
| Christian_M | not from me | 05:33 |
| yisun | I’m good | 05:34 |
| yamamoto | yamahata: i guess filing a bug is more appropriate action | 05:34 |
| yamahata | yamamoto: got it. | 05:34 |
| yamahata | #action yamahata file a bug for documentation of portsecurity | 05:34 |
| yamamoto | i haven’t checked if there’s existing bug | 05:35 |
| yamahata | yamamoto: I see. | 05:35 |
| yamahata | Okay next target of blueprint is unaddressed port, I think. | 05:36 |
| yamahata | Do we have any use case? | 05:36 |
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| yamahata | So far I haven't see concrete use case of it at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ServiceVM/neutron-port-attributes | 05:36 |
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| yamahata | anyone volunteer for spec? | 05:37 |
| yisun | ok, here is one use case: | 05:37 |
| yisun | my VM is a firewall VM to provide firewall service, I can greate interface when service instance is created | 05:38 |
| yisun | But when the fw service instance is deleted from the tenant, I may not delete the VM vNic since it could be reused for other FW service instance | 05:39 |
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| yisun | Before the vNic is bind to any new FW service instance, it does not really have an ip address | 05:39 |
| yisun | But it could have a MAC | 05:39 |
| yamahata | yisun: during unused time, the port is unaddressed. | 05:40 |
| yisun | yamahata: correct, it does not have an address | 05:40 |
| yamahata | yisun: I see. So only IP address is unaddressed, but MAC doesn't need to be unaddressed. | 05:40 |
| yamahata | Then only ip address | 05:40 |
| yisun | yamahata: yes | 05:40 |
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| yamahata | yisun: can you please add it to the wiki page? | 05:41 |
| yamamoto | why you want to keep vnic? to keep mac address unchanged? | 05:41 |
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| yisun | yamamoto: just to same the effort to unplug/plug interface | 05:42 |
| yisun | s/same/save/ | 05:42 |
| yamamoto | save admin’s efforts? | 05:43 |
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| yisun | yamamoto: yes | 05:44 |
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| yamamoto | i see | 05:45 |
| yisun | another use case is so called v-wire mode | 05:45 |
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| yisun | when a firewall is running in the v-wire mode, it does not have ip/mac | 05:45 |
| yamamoto | my impression is the use case is a little weak, though | 05:45 |
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| yisun | yamamoto: v-wire or port unplug? | 05:46 |
| yamahata | yisun: Is v-wire something like bump-in-the-wire? | 05:47 |
| yamahata | I don't know what v-wire means | 05:47 |
| yamamoto | i meant “save admin’s effort” one | 05:47 |
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| yisun | yamahata: some time I got confused by bump-in-the-wire, in different context it is used for different meaning | 05:48 |
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| yisun | yamamoto: ok | 05:48 |
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| yisun | yamahata:http://blog.davidvassallo.me/2012/05/30/lessons-learned-palo-alto-in-vwire-mode/ | 05:50 |
| yamahata | yisun: thanks for the link | 05:50 |
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| yamahata | yisun: I meant figure 3 in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fmCWpCxAN4g5txmCJVmBDt02GYew2kvyRsh0Wl3YF2U/edit?pli=1 | 05:50 |
| yamahata | yisun: I'll look into the link | 05:51 |
| yisun | yamahata: I just did a good and copy the most relavent link I found | 05:51 |
| yisun | s/good/google/ | 05:51 |
| yamahata | yisun: do you have more use cases? | 05:52 |
| yisun | how about a TAP port? | 05:52 |
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| yisun | not sure if it counts | 05:52 |
| yisun | yamahata: yes the vwire is similar to the figure 3 | 05:53 |
| yamahata | #action yisun add use cases of unaddressed port to the wiki page | 05:53 |
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| yamahata | After collecting use case, we can break them down to the actual spec | 05:53 |
| yamahata | anything to discuss on specs/blueprints? | 05:54 |
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| yamahata | #topic open discussion | 05:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:55 | |
| yamahata | anything to discuss? | 05:55 |
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| yamahata | Seems none. | 05:56 |
| yamahata | see you next week | 05:56 |
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| Christian_M | ok thanks | 05:56 |
| yamahata | thanks | 05:56 |
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| yamamoto | thank you | 05:57 |
| yamahata | #endmeeting | 05:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "launchpad openid is down. login to openstack services will fail until launchpad openid is happy again" | 05:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 17 05:57:25 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 05:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-06-17-05.02.html | 05:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-06-17-05.02.txt | 05:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-06-17-05.02.log.html | 05:57 |
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| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 13:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 17 13:59:39 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 13:59 |
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| sc68cal | Hello all | 13:59 |
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| HenryG | o/ | 14:00 |
| aveiga | o/ | 14:00 |
| xuhanp | hello | 14:00 |
| carlp | Morning | 14:00 |
| dane_leblanc | hello | 14:00 |
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| sc68cal | So yesterday kyle and mark conducted a meeting about ipv6 features for juno | 14:01 |
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| sc68cal | I put some notes down from the meeting, so I'll give people some time to go through it and digest | 14:01 |
| sc68cal | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings#IPv6_.28sc68cal.29 | 14:01 |
| BrianB_ | hi | 14:01 |
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| sc68cal | So the main change in the roadmap is that cores do not want to put support for RAs in Neutron via dnsmasq | 14:04 |
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| sc68cal | instead, they would prefer that support for RAs be developed using radvd | 14:05 |
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| HenryG | The radvd blueprint is https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/neutron-ipv6-radvd-ra | 14:05 |
| HenryG | I hope to have a spec filed for it by tomorrow | 14:05 |
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| aveiga | thanks, HenryG | 14:06 |
| aveiga | leet me know if you need any help with it | 14:06 |
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| sc68cal | So what's everyone's thoughts? | 14:08 |
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| carlp | I think radvd is better than dnsmasq in this case | 14:10 |
| aveiga | +1 | 14:10 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, how to deal with the spec I just wrote? | 14:10 |
| dane_leblanc | I think RADVD is a better approach, less hacking from what I can tell | 14:10 |
| aveiga | radvd provides more support for things like unicast RA, as well | 14:10 |
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| haleyb | Is there plans to add dnsmasq support later? i guess i (eventually) saw it as a way to save a namespace - i.e. router namespace where dnsmasq lives for v4 and v6, and also save another process running, since there's one per network | 14:11 |
| haleyb | but i'm fine with it for now | 14:11 |
| aveiga | the namespace isn't directly connected with the RA daemon choice | 14:12 |
| aveiga | if it's radvd or dnsmasq, they still have to have a qrouter namespace | 14:12 |
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| haleyb | right, but if dnsmasq moved into the qrouter namespace we could remove the qdhcp | 14:12 |
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| haleyb | we have lots of namespaces on production nodes | 14:13 |
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| sc68cal | I don't know if that would be possible thoug | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | since Neutron still creates the q-dhcp NS for dhcp for v4 | 14:14 |
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| haleyb | it might not be today, i see it as future work, i wasn't around when the decision to have both a qrouter and qdhcp namespace was made, i would have maybe chosen just one | 14:15 |
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| aveiga | haleyb: I'm concerned though that radvd will still be necessary for advanced features when we get that far | 14:16 |
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| aveiga | my proposal for flaoting IPv6 requires unicast RA | 14:16 |
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| aveiga | dnsmasq will not be adding support for it, per http://lists.thekelleys.org.uk/pipermail/dnsmasq-discuss/2012q3/006262.html | 14:17 |
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| haleyb | i'm fine with radvd as i actually understand it's syntax better. i'll read henry's spec and comment there | 14:17 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: regarding your question about your BP for dnsmasq and slaac/slaac config | 14:25 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, maybe I should change that to Stateful DHCP? | 14:25 |
| xuhanp | for next steps | 14:25 |
| sc68cal | That's a good point | 14:26 |
| xuhanp | OK. will try to do that after the RADVD spec comes out. | 14:26 |
| sc68cal | and then I guess list the radvd bp as a dependency? | 14:26 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, yep | 14:26 |
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| sc68cal | If there isn't anything else, I can give everyone back half an hour | 14:29 |
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| dane_leblanc | I didn't see the multiple prefix BP listed in the minutes for the meeting with the cores. | 14:30 |
| dane_leblanc | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98217/4/specs/juno/multiple-ipv6-prefixes.rst | 14:30 |
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| dane_leblanc | Just want to make sure that doesn't fall off for lack of interest or priority | 14:30 |
| sc68cal | dane_leblanc: feel free to add it to my sub-section | 14:30 |
| dane_leblanc | sc68cal, will do, thanks. | 14:31 |
| sc68cal | I'll try to get cores to take a look at it | 14:31 |
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| sc68cal | I know i'm nit picking you on the rst syntax, I'll try and post a patch to better explain how to do hyperlinks in rst | 14:32 |
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| dane_leblanc | I think what I use is an alternate approach, I'll add a response, but I'm open for suggestions. | 14:32 |
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| sc68cal | Sure - it's just that currently it doesn't render to HTML very well | 14:33 |
| sc68cal | some of the links in the references section are broken, etc. | 14:33 |
| dane_leblanc | I test it with the online reSt editor (http://rst.ninjs.org/), seems to work fine there. | 14:34 |
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| sc68cal | That editor has caused problems before | 14:34 |
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| sc68cal | Where it looks ok in ninjs but does not render the same by sphinx | 14:34 |
| sc68cal | dane_leblanc: see - http://docs-draft.openstack.org/17/98217/4/check/gate-neutron-specs-docs/75c8ebf/doc/build/html/specs/juno/multiple-ipv6-prefixes.html#references | 14:35 |
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| dane_leblanc | That output looks good to me. | 14:35 |
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| sc68cal | Ref-2 and Ref-3 and Ref-7 are hyperlinks that don't go anywhere | 14:35 |
| dane_leblanc | Those have multiple references in the prior text... | 14:36 |
| sc68cal | the actual "Ref-2" text | 14:36 |
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| sc68cal | it creates a link to "http://docs-draft.openstack.org/17/98217/4/check/gate-neutron-specs-docs/75c8ebf/doc/build/html/specs/juno/multiple-ipv6-prefixes.html#id3" which doesn't exist | 14:36 |
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| sc68cal | so tl;dr is basically ninjs sucks and doesn't render stuff right | 14:37 |
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| dane_leblanc | Sphinx isn't handling the "citation" syntax... | 14:37 |
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| dane_leblanc | I'll look into it. | 14:37 |
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| dane_leblanc | The Ref-2 link should point you back to the prior ref in the doc. | 14:38 |
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| sc68cal | ok everyone, until next week | 14:40 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 14:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "launchpad openid is down. login to openstack services will fail until launchpad openid is happy again" | 14:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 17 14:40:25 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-06-17-13.59.html | 14:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-06-17-13.59.txt | 14:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-06-17-13.59.log.html | 14:40 |
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| bauzas | join #openstack-meeting-alt | 14:59 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, I think that's #join :-) | 15:00 |
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| bauzas | dammit | 15:00 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 17 15:00:42 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:00 |
| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler? | 15:00 |
| bauzas | n0ano: o/ | 15:00 |
| tianst | 哦/ | 15:00 |
| tianst | o/ | 15:01 |
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| toan-tran | o/ | 15:01 |
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| mspreitz | here | 15:01 |
| jgallard | hi | 15:01 |
| n0ano | tianst, I like your first response (if I only knew what it meant :-) | 15:01 |
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| tianst | :) | 15:01 |
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| n0ano | let's get started, I'll try and make it short today | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | :) | 15:02 |
| n0ano | #topic forklift status | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | right :) | 15:02 |
| n0ano | bauzas, anything good to report? | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | well, some updates :) | 15:02 |
| bauzas | after a looong discussion with johnthetubaguy, decision has been made to simplify the propoal | 15:03 |
| bauzas | so, we remove use of object for it | 15:03 |
| bauzas | and scheduler doesn't have to manage its own view of services | 15:03 |
| bauzas | so, the update is just coming in, and the DB got updated | 15:03 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/82778 | 15:04 |
| bauzas | it's up to review, no work left | 15:04 |
| n0ano | bauzas, that will still lead to clean, easily separatable interfaces, right? | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | well that's my point on a dependent patch | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | atm, this code is a library run by the compute host | 15:04 |
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| bauzas | so that only provides a way to "isolate" db accesses | 15:05 |
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| bauzas | but speaking of that, computes are still directly updating db | 15:05 |
| bauzas | for scheduler compute_nodes table | 15:05 |
| n0ano | computes updating the DB is not a problem, it's the scheduler access we need to isolate | 15:06 |
| bauzas | n0ano: let me rephrase | 15:06 |
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| bauzas | computes are updating still updating a DB table | 15:06 |
| bauzas | related to the scheduler | 15:06 |
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| bauzas | the proposal for letting Scheduler the only access to compute_nodes is here : https://review.openstack.org/97232 | 15:07 |
| mspreitz | bauzas: which table are you complaining about? | 15:07 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: compute_nodes | 15:08 |
| n0ano | ah, that to me is unrelated to splitting the scheduler out into the gantt tree, that's my main focus | 15:08 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: which is the mother of all the scheduling decisions | 15:08 |
| marun | http://omrasdfsdfshttp://omreunionproject.org/http://omreunionproject.org/eunionproject.org/ | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: that's related to it :) | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | if we split out the scheduler, we will need to provide a client library for compute nodes | 15:09 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: +1 | 15:09 |
| n0ano | the client library either sends an api to the schduler or updates the DB, in either case it's unrelated to gantt code | 15:09 |
| bauzas | if we leave the situation as it is, Nova conductor is still updating DB's compute_nodes | 15:10 |
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| mspreitz | so the debate here is really about where the split is | 15:10 |
| bauzas | that's unrelated to gantt code, not data ;) | 15:10 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: it's related in the sense that we have to use some call from *some service* to scheduler | 15:10 |
| toan-tran | maybe nova-api | 15:11 |
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| n0ano | I think an API is fine but I just don't see it as a necessary precursor to splitting the scheduler code into gantt | 15:11 |
| bauzas | mmm | 15:12 |
| bauzas | I agree with the thing we draw a line | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | with compute not directly talking to conductor, but scheduler rather | 15:13 |
| bauzas | but that scheduler.client portion of code will be run by Nova | 15:13 |
| bauzas | while it is part of a Gantt code | 15:14 |
| n0ano | so, to be clear, we need the 82778 change, do we also think that 97232 is required before we try and split the code out? | 15:15 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: I'm confused, are you talking about the database access? or schuduling request? | 15:15 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: I'm talking about nova computes running a Gantt code to update DB | 15:17 |
| bauzas | n0ano: well, we can try with 82778 only | 15:17 |
| n0ano | bauzas, that would be my hope | 15:17 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: but the problem is that Nova will need to import Gantt as a whole | 15:17 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: that's not https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82778/ is about | 15:18 |
| n0ano | bauzas, that would kind of defeat the purpose, why would nova need all of gantt? | 15:18 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas: ok so it's https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97232/ | 15:19 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: right | 15:19 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I mean the scheduler client code has to be left in Nova | 15:19 |
| bauzas | n0ano: and not be part of the fork | 15:19 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that's a client library | 15:20 |
| n0ano | the client library, yes we can do that as a second effort, as long as we split the scheduler proper out that the main goal | 15:20 |
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| n0ano | we do need the client library but we can do that later | 15:20 |
| bauzas | n0ano: sorry, it seems we are not on the same page | 15:21 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:21 |
| bauzas | I'm trying to reformulate | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | so, my concern is that | 15:21 |
| bauzas | if we say that all scheduler.* namespace becomes gantt | 15:21 |
| bauzas | that's an external project | 15:21 |
| bauzas | you ok? | 15:22 |
| n0ano | I believe so, yes | 15:22 |
| bauzas | ok | 15:22 |
| bauzas | so, if Nova still has to call Scheduler for either select_destinations() or update_resource_stats(), it will need to import a certain portion of code | 15:23 |
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| bauzas | by importing, I mean Python importing | 15:23 |
| bauzas | from ... import client | 15:23 |
| bauzas | so we can't impose nova to declare gantt as a dependency | 15:24 |
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| bauzas | so, I'm just saying that nova.scheduler.client has to be left where it is | 15:24 |
| bauzas | you ok ? | 15:25 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: *where*? | 15:25 |
| n0ano | we have to think about that, importing from a different project causes problems with testing | 15:25 |
| bauzas | n0ano: right, that's why nova.scheduler.client will still be nova.scheduler.client | 15:25 |
| bauzas | and not become gantt.client | 15:25 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: if you're talking about cross-project call, then it's better in common or oslo | 15:26 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: trust me, that's not that common :) | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | anyway | 15:26 |
| bauzas | I'm just saying that : | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | A/ the scheduler.client code will remain in Nova | 15:26 |
| bauzas | B/ all scheduler.* except scheduler.client will become Gantt | 15:27 |
| bauzas | so the dependency is far less strong | 15:27 |
| n0ano | well, the ultimate goal is to have a `python-ganttclient', like other projects, and isolate the client access that way | 15:27 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: ok, I think I understand what you're saying | 15:27 |
| bauzas | n0ano: agreed, that will be future plan | 15:27 |
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| toan-tran | basically you want to create an *interface* that scheduler listent to update db | 15:27 |
| bauzas | n0ano: at the moment, we only have that nova.scheduler.client proposed in 82778 to be the last standing man | 15:28 |
| toan-tran | and create something inside nova-compute to use that interface | 15:28 |
| toan-tran | but instead of using an API, you use python call | 15:28 |
| toan-tran | is that right? | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: I'm just thinking of a way to have a clean interface now, before having a python client :) | 15:29 |
| bauzas | so, if we say nova.scheduler.client is the last standing man in Nova | 15:29 |
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| toan-tran | bauzas: I'm agreed that we would have to make some channel from nova to gantt to update DB | 15:29 |
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| toan-tran | I'm just worried that the channel is low-level function call | 15:30 |
| bauzas | that means that we need to have compatibility in between nova.scheduler.client code and Scheduler | 15:30 |
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| toan-tran | it should be temporary | 15:30 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: if we want a python-ganttclient we need a gantt-api :) | 15:30 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 15:31 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: +1 | 15:31 |
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| n0ano | the question is do we need python-ganttclient before we can make the split | 15:31 |
| bauzas | n0ano: nope | 15:31 |
| bauzas | n0ano: RPC API is enough | 15:31 |
| n0ano | then I'm good, stepwise development works for me | 15:32 |
| bauzas | n0ano: hence https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97232/ | 15:32 |
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| n0ano | actually, that leads to the action for all | 15:32 |
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| n0ano | #all to review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/82778 and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97232/ | 15:33 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: thanks | 15:33 |
| n0ano | I think we should move on | 15:33 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: as I'm just trying to explain, 97232 is the only piece of code needed to have a clear interface in between Gantt and Nova | 15:33 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, +1 | 15:34 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: we can move on without that piece of code, but then we will need to manage compatibilty at the DB level | 15:34 |
| n0ano | #topic policy based scheduler | 15:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "policy based scheduler (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:34 | |
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| toan-tran | bauzas: I suggest you put the roadmap somewhere, to know which patch corresponds to which piece of the roadmap | 15:35 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, I believe this is your topic, I noticed there was some reviews (fairly negative) on your BP | 15:35 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: could you please undo ? there is a WIP patch for isolate-scheduler-db | 15:35 |
| n0ano | #topic code forklift | 15:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "code forklift (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:35 | |
| n0ano | sorry, got ahead of myself | 15:35 |
| tianst | isolate scheduler db, I put a daft patch , just want to make sure something, one :if i did the right thing? two：need Depends bauzas's patch and split the API update to one patch? | 15:36 |
| tianst | n0ano :0 | 15:36 |
| tianst | :) | 15:36 |
| bauzas | tianst: well, I made some comments | 15:36 |
| bauzas | tianst: maybe we could discuss that later on | 15:36 |
| tianst | bauzas : I see thanks | 15:36 |
| bauzas | tianst: btw, your topic name is incorrect | 15:37 |
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| n0ano | I haven't had a chance to review it yet, but I will later today | 15:37 |
| bauzas | tianst: can't find it thru gerrit https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:bp/isolate-scheduler-db,n,z | 15:37 |
| tianst | n0ano ,thanks | 15:37 |
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| bauzas | tianst: you made an excellent job | 15:37 |
| bauzas | tianst: I'm just worried about the fact the bp is not validated yet | 15:38 |
| tianst | bauzas: it's a draft, i will update tomorrow | 15:38 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/89893/ | 15:38 |
| bauzas | tianst: yep, I know | 15:38 |
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| bauzas | tianst: would you mind if I propose another patchset ? | 15:38 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I'm assuming the BP will get validated and I don't want to just sit and wait for that | 15:38 |
| bauzas | n0ano: yey, but I had to do many back-and-forths with the sched-lib | 15:39 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I don't want to have the same situation for isolate-sched-db | 15:39 |
| n0ano | bauzas, hopefully this one is slightly less controversial (I'm an optimist) | 15:39 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I'm also :) | 15:39 |
| bauzas | so, tianst, would you mind if I'm proposing another patchset ? | 15:40 |
| bauzas | so we could co-author it | 15:40 |
| tianst | nop | 15:40 |
| bauzas | that will be very quick | 15:40 |
| bauzas | ok cool | 15:40 |
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| tianst | :) | 15:41 |
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| n0ano | OK, anything else about the forklift? | 15:41 |
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| n0ano | #topic policy based scheduler | 15:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "policy based scheduler (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:41 | |
| bauzas | well, we're running out of time :) | 15:41 |
| bauzas | yep | 15:41 |
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| n0ano | toan-tran, anything you want to say today? | 15:41 |
| toan-tran | i'll be quick | 15:42 |
| toan-tran | I'm rewritting the proposal | 15:42 |
| toan-tran | last time I made a mistake presenting usecases one by one | 15:42 |
| toan-tran | it's easy to have patch for one usecase, but if we're keep doing that it's complicated | 15:42 |
| toan-tran | I will re-present it with the whole picture, it's better to see the usefulness of this bp | 15:43 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: the problem is that your proposal is big | 15:43 |
| toan-tran | yes, the bp was proposed several months ago | 15:43 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: so it should be managed by a single bp | 15:43 |
| toan-tran | and it was the problem | 15:43 |
| toan-tran | so I'm trying to break to down into pieces | 15:44 |
| bauzas | should *not | 15:44 |
| bauzas | right | 15:44 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, yeah, it looks like you have to justify things a bit, breaking it up into smaller pieces might be easier | 15:44 |
| toan-tran | n0ano: +1 | 15:44 |
| bauzas | maybe the rationale should still reside in a Wikipage | 15:44 |
| mspreitz | I have an observation and a suggestion | 15:44 |
| bauzas | you can just provide as many blueprints as you need | 15:44 |
| bauzas | related to that | 15:45 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: some old text is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gr4Pb1ErXymxN9QXR4G_jVjLqNOg2ij9oA0JrLwMVRA/edit | 15:45 |
| toan-tran | mspreitz: go ahead | 15:45 |
| mspreitz | I have reviewed https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RfP7jRsw1mXMjd7in72ARjK0fTrsQv1bqolOriIQB2Y/edit# and the central idea there is that what you are adding is support for provider policy... | 15:45 |
| mspreitz | When we get into policy-driven scheduling, there are two sources for policy : the user and the provider | 15:46 |
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| mspreitz | What I see your BP about is enabling the provider to make some fine-grained declarations of provider policy | 15:46 |
| mspreitz | Leave the rest out of it | 15:46 |
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| mspreitz | That's a way to focus | 15:46 |
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| mspreitz | full stop | 15:47 |
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| toan-tran | mspreitz: well at first the idea is to have an engine driven by policy | 15:48 |
| toan-tran | regardless of who the policy is provided by | 15:48 |
| toan-tran | so we will have provider's polciy, and user's policy | 15:48 |
| mspreitz | In some sense today's scheduler is driven by policy. Both you and Yathi are working with user policy being given today | 15:48 |
| toan-tran | but that's for later, right now I'm focusing on the engine itself | 15:49 |
| mspreitz | I myself and Yathi want richer user policy input, but that's a separate issue | 15:49 |
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| mspreitz | So here is the factoring I see... | 15:49 |
| mspreitz | One part is about letting the provider make fine-grained policy statements; those can, as outlined in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RfP7jRsw1mXMjd7in72ARjK0fTrsQv1bqolOriIQB2Y/edit# , be parameters of today's scheduler | 15:50 |
| toan-tran | mspreitz: +1, the obstacle for me with user's policy is that we don't have an API for user to delare that | 15:50 |
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| toan-tran | so I'm limited with provider policy only | 15:50 |
| mspreitz | Other parts are about changing how the scheduler deals with incoming policy | 15:50 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: I think that once we succeed in getting Gantt out | 15:50 |
| toan-tran | but that's the thing I see in your proposal | 15:51 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: the first item will be to provide an API | 15:51 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: I have some experience of Pecan and WSME, I will be able to help | 15:51 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: +1 | 15:51 |
| mspreitz | Yathi and I have been working on the API for user policy, I see you as contributing API for provider policy, let us not mix the two up | 15:51 |
| toan-tran | mspreitz: right | 15:52 |
| mspreitz | they are different things | 15:52 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: mspreitz: I'm almost sure Nova cores won't want to extend Nova API for these purposes | 15:52 |
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| toan-tran | for now I'm focusing on the engine itself, not the policy part | 15:52 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: mspreitz: that needs to land on Gantt | 15:52 |
| * johnthetubaguy is lurking, in case someone had a question | 15:52 | |
| toan-tran | bauzas: +1 | 15:52 |
| mspreitz | Yes, I thought everyone agreed that Gantt comes first | 15:52 |
| n0ano | toan-tran, note, focusing on the eingine might be your problem, it's hard to justify the engine without a user of it | 15:53 |
| mspreitz | As for extending API to accept *more* user policy, yes that is not settled yet | 15:53 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: by saying that, you implicitely accept the dependency on a Gantt API | 15:53 |
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| toan-tran | n0ano: that's why I'm working on its presentation :) | 15:53 |
| toan-tran | mspreitz: I guess the API part should be talked once we have some discussion of gantt API | 15:54 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: we had some discussion abotu https://review.openstack.org/97232 | 15:54 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: let's discuss it in #openstack-nova once that meeting ends up | 15:54 |
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| mspreitz | bauzas: I think Nova's client-facing API for accepting user policy does not necessarily have to expose Gantt; consider the proposals that Yathi and I and others have made; the implementation, OTOH, will involve Gantt | 15:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: ack | 15:54 |
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| toan-tran | FYI, I'm looking ath the work in Congress | 15:55 |
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| toan-tran | they're proposing some really interesting approach on policy part | 15:55 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: what if Nova refuses to extend Nova API for adding user policies ? | 15:55 |
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| toan-tran | if it becomes official, we can benefit from congress API & policy language | 15:56 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: I agree with you, but coming from a Stackforge project, that's tough now | 15:56 |
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| bauzas | toan-tran: we can't bet on a project to become integrated | 15:56 |
| mspreitz | Refusing an API for accepting more user policy input = refusing to cope with more user policy. If that's the community's decision, I'll probably be taking my marbles elsewhere. | 15:56 |
| toan-tran | mspreitz: now now don't be on defensive :) | 15:57 |
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| toan-tran | I think that's the need (that's why I do it :) ) | 15:57 |
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| n0ano | OK, we're running out of time and I do have one quick open | 15:57 |
| toan-tran | I just see some work before it can be merged | 15:58 |
| bauzas | toan-tran: so I would prefer to have an API accepting policies in Gantt and a possible backend that would be Congress | 15:58 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:58 | |
| mspreitz | I'm just saying that if the community decides to not work on a topic, then I will not try to work with this community on that topic | 15:58 |
| toan-tran | bauzas: +1 | 15:58 |
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| bauzas | mspreitz: well, I'm not saying the community will push back | 15:58 |
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| mspreitz | bauzas: you do not have to say it, it has already been said and done. But not settled. | 15:59 |
| n0ano | my BP https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97903/ for changing the compute node updates to the DB has been approved, expect to see code to implement it real soon now | 15:59 |
| mspreitz | On to opens | 15:59 |
| bauzas | mspreitz: but maybe it could be said that Nova is not the right place for it | 15:59 |
| bauzas | n0ano: cool | 15:59 |
| n0ano | reviews of the code, as always, are appreciated | 15:59 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:59 |
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| n0ano | that's about all the time we have, barring any last minute opens | 16:00 |
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| bauzas | nope | 16:00 |
| n0ano | OK, tnx everyone, we'll talk again next week. | 16:00 |
| bauzas | thanks for your work | 16:00 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "launchpad openid is down. login to openstack services will fail until launchpad openid is happy again" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 17 16:00:35 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-06-17-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-06-17-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-06-17-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 17 16:02:49 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:02 |
| ociuhandu_ | hi all | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | hi all | 16:03 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: hi luis | 16:03 |
| luis_fdez | hi prad_ | 16:04 |
| luis_fdez | uy | 16:04 |
| luis_fdez | hi primeministerp | 16:04 |
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| primeministerp | so wanted to have a quick update | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: i'm glad you're here | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | #topic puppet refactoring effort | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "puppet refactoring effort (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:04 | |
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| luis_fdez | no big updates from my side unfortunately... | 16:05 |
| luis_fdez | It's been a couple of busy weeks here | 16:05 |
| luis_fdez | since the summit | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | so we're currently undergoing a effort to refactor the puppet | 16:05 |
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| primeministerp | code we have for windows | 16:06 |
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| luis_fdez | did you have time to take a look to the refactoring of nova? | 16:06 |
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| primeministerp | so i haven't looked at it yet | 16:07 |
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| luis_fdez | ok, no problem... I want to take another look to the updates in stackforge and plan next steps... | 16:08 |
| luis_fdez | for unit testing... bits that could be push to the main modules... | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | however we have other looking at it. | 16:08 |
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| luis_fdez | ok, good :) | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | sorry | 16:10 |
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| primeministerp | others calling at the same time | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | as this meeting | 16:11 |
| luis_fdez | np :) | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | back | 16:11 |
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| primeministerp | so no on the nova stuff, we're doing more lower level right now | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | looking at the windows common parts | 16:12 |
| luis_fdez | ok | 16:12 |
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| primeministerp | adding documentation and trying to establish some standard testing across modules | 16:12 |
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| primeministerp | i however can take a peek at the nova bits if there is something specific that awaits | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | I know i've neglected them as of late | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | :( | 16:13 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: do you have specific pull requests waiting? | 16:13 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: anyway ping me after if there stuff you want to me to prioritze | 16:13 |
| luis_fdez | no, I think eveeryting is pulled in | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:14 |
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| primeministerp | so I'm going to move on for a sec | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | #openvswitch | 16:14 |
| luis_fdez | ok | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | #topic openvswitch | 16:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "openvswitch (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:14 | |
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| primeministerp | so we're also starting our efforts to integrate openvswitch into the ci | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | as you may know we've got a kernel driver and userspace components now | 16:15 |
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| primeministerp | for hyper-v | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | #link https://github.com/cloudbase/openvswitch-hyperv-kernel | 16:15 |
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| luis_fdez | it's a great progress to have it on hyperv | 16:15 |
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| primeministerp | #link https://github.com/cloudbase/openvswitch-hyperv | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: have you started testing yet? | 16:16 |
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| luis_fdez | nop, there is one technical student that is working on Neutron & friends | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | ahh | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:17 |
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| luis_fdez | have you been testing it successfully?? | 16:17 |
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| primeministerp | we're just begining the testing efforts here as well so it's going to be a bit befor it's all integrated | 16:17 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: we're just planning now | 16:17 |
| luis_fdez | ok | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: on top of building a new infra | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: however we'll be building the new infra using it | 16:18 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: and will be working to integrate it into our neutron tests | 16:19 |
| luis_fdez | sounds good :) | 16:19 |
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| primeministerp | #topic cinder testing | 16:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cinder testing (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:21 | |
| primeministerp | so we're also starting to work on the cinder test cases | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | and are currently building the automation to support it | 16:21 |
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| primeministerp | first test case we'll be deploying is the iscsi, with the smb3 to follow with the addition of the code | 16:22 |
| luis_fdez | good, we need to improve a bit that part (I already saw a few new patches being merged upstream related with hyperv and iscsi) | 16:23 |
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| primeministerp | we've currently pinned down some details of the configuration for the workload and are aligning our automation efforts and refactoring efforts to support this | 16:23 |
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| primeministerp | we'll have something running in the current the CI infa in cmb by Juno | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | so I really don't have much more to cover today | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: anything to add? | 16:25 |
| luis_fdez | yeps | 16:25 |
| luis_fdez | just one thing | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | yep | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: go ahead | 16:25 |
| luis_fdez | I would like also to revisit in the coming weeks the creation of a SCOM package for OpenSTack | 16:25 |
| luis_fdez | on HyperV | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: can you do me a favor | 16:25 |
| luis_fdez | yes | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: let's get an email thread going | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | i'll be travelling for a couple weeks starting next week | 16:26 |
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| primeministerp | so if you can get it by weeks end | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | explaining what you're looking for | 16:26 |
| luis_fdez | ok | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | i'll start a thread on it internally here | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | and get some discussions started | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | to see if there's something that can be done | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: does that work? | 16:27 |
| luis_fdez | perfect, we would be please to contribute in testing/coding but if it's driven by you... the final design will be better... | 16:27 |
| luis_fdez | yeps, perfect primeministerp | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | np | 16:27 |
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| luis_fdez | said that, that's all from my side | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu_: do you have anything to add? | 16:27 |
| ociuhandu_ | primeministerp: not really | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | ok then guys | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | i'm going to close the meeting | 16:28 |
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| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:28 |
| ociuhandu_ | focusing on the CI work for now ;) | 16:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "launchpad openid is down. login to openstack services will fail until launchpad openid is happy again" | 16:28 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 17 16:28:36 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:28 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-06-17-16.02.html | 16:28 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-06-17-16.02.txt | 16:28 |
| ociuhandu_ | bye all | 16:28 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-06-17-16.02.log.html | 16:28 |
| luis_fdez | bye! have a nice week | 16:28 |
| ociuhandu_ | luis_fdez: u too :) | 16:29 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 17 17:00:35 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:00 |
| boris-42 | msdubov hughsaunders marcoemorais1 ping | 17:00 |
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| hughsaunders | boris-42: hey | 17:01 |
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| andreykurilin | hi all | 17:01 |
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| k4n0 | Hi Rally o/ | 17:01 |
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| boris-42 | so let' just wait a sec | 17:02 |
| marcoemorais1 | hey | 17:02 |
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| boris-42 | okay let's just start | 17:04 |
| boris-42 | #topic hackings | 17:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "hackings (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:04 | |
| boris-42 | Olga made a quite large patch | 17:04 |
| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100599/ | 17:04 |
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| boris-42 | I think we should merge it ASAP | 17:05 |
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| boris-42 | Cause it is blocking next patch | 17:05 |
| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/96833/ | 17:05 |
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| boris-42 | that contains a lot of updates in different projects | 17:05 |
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| boris-42 | Thoughts ? | 17:06 |
| k4n0 | first patch or second? | 17:06 |
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| boris-42 | k4n0 first & second we need both | 17:06 |
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| boris-42 | without first we are not able to merge second | 17:06 |
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| boris-42 | k4n0 second patch syncs rally requirements with requirements of rest openstack | 17:07 |
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| k4n0 | then we should quickly review first patch | 17:07 |
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| boris-42 | k4n0 yep | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders marcoemorais1 ^ | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | guys you are core you should have your opinion on this as well lol | 17:08 |
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| marcoemorais1 | boris-42: yes it is a big patch, need to look through it | 17:09 |
| hughsaunders | Does look like a sizeable patch, will have to have a read | 17:09 |
| hughsaunders | marcoemorais1: snap | 17:09 |
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| boris-42 | hughsaunders msdubov okay good | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | #topic Keystone V3 support | 17:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone V3 support (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:10 | |
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| boris-42 | Ok we find the guy that will help us with this stuff | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | it's quite tricky | 17:11 |
| k4n0 | o/ | 17:11 |
| k4n0 | can i help? | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100579/ | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | ^ k4n0 you can help if you review this | 17:11 |
| k4n0 | ok | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | So the idea is to create wrapper | 17:11 |
| boris-42 | on top of keystone client | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | so we will unify work with keystone for rest of rally | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | and it will detect automatically what version we are using and use coressponding API | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 hughsaunders marcoemorais ^ thoguths ? | 17:12 |
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| marcoemorais | boris-42: interesting seems potentially useful even outside of rally | 17:13 |
| k4n0 | Is this a problem of deciding which keystone api to use? (https://github.com/openstack/heat/blob/master/heat/common/heat_keystoneclient.py) | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 nope | 17:14 |
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| boris-42 | k4n0 it's problem that in keystone v3 we have projects and in keystone v2 we have tenants | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 they are similar but with different names... | 17:14 |
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| boris-42 | and different api | 17:15 |
| k4n0 | ok, and what do we need to use? | 17:15 |
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| hughsaunders | k4n0: probably need compatibility with both for now | 17:15 |
| k4n0 | I see, so we need to lazy load the keystone client based on context | 17:16 |
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| boris-42 | k4n0 if we specified in rally to use v3 | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 rally should still work+) | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 at this point it doesn't work | 17:17 |
| k4n0 | I think heat does something similar (https://github.com/openstack/heat/blob/master/heat/common/heat_keystoneclient.py#L541) | 17:17 |
| k4n0 | You can specify default keystone backend. | 17:17 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 it's mess | 17:17 |
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| boris-42 | k4n0 and not related to our task | 17:17 |
| k4n0 | ok | 17:17 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 I don't need delete_stack_domain_project | 17:17 |
| boris-42 | -) | 17:17 |
| k4n0 | I know :) | 17:17 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 so we will just unify basic operations that we are using | 17:18 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 that's all | 17:18 |
| k4n0 | ok | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Tempest Improvements | 17:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest Improvements (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:18 | |
| boris-42 | k4n0 could you share with your work and explain to others? | 17:18 |
| k4n0 | Yes | 17:19 |
| k4n0 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100481 | 17:19 |
| k4n0 | I am removing dependency on subunit2junitxml | 17:19 |
| k4n0 | And parsing the raw subunit stream given by "testr" to json | 17:19 |
| k4n0 | basically subunit2json | 17:19 |
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| k4n0 | questions? | 17:20 |
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| k4n0 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/rally/+spec/tempest-subunit-to-json | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 agree actually with Andreay | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 about location of subunit2json module=) | 17:21 |
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| k4n0 | you want to invoke subunit2json from tool/subunit2json ? | 17:22 |
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| boris-42 | k4n0 nope | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | I left comment | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 put it deep inside tempest directory | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 only tempest is using it and will use it | 17:22 |
| k4n0 | ok, so send subunit2json as patch to tempest? or copy it to tempest during installation from rally | 17:23 |
| k4n0 | ? | 17:23 |
| andreykurilin | no | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 send module | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 move file in patch* | 17:23 |
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| k4n0 | I dont understand | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 file is in rally/subunit2json.py | 17:24 |
| k4n0 | ok got it | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | make it in rally/verification/veirifiers/tempst/subunit2json.py | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | only tempest is (and will use it) | 17:24 |
| andreykurilin | +1 | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | so it shouldn't be on top of everything | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | if we put everything in root | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | it will be mess | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:24 |
| k4n0 | ack | 17:25 |
| k4n0 | Ill make this and other change and submit new patch | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 good | 17:25 |
| andreykurilin | this module can be moved to subunit repo as one of subunit-filter :) | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin btw yes | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin but unit it is merged in it we will keep it in rally | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | lifeless ^ we made subunit2json.py | 17:27 |
| andreykurilin | of course | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | lifeless are you interesting in getting it in subunit? | 17:27 |
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| boris-42 | #topic ready to merge patch =) | 17:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "ready to merge patch =) (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:29 | |
| andreykurilin | boris-42, imo, we need to send a letter to openstack-dev and discuss this filter | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/92873/12 | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin k4n0 somebody of you guys can make this | 17:30 |
| k4n0 | andreykurilin: Ill send a mail to mailing list openstack-dev | 17:30 |
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| boris-42 | hughsaunders msdubov marcoemorais guys could you take a look at patch above ^ | 17:30 |
| * hughsaunders looks | 17:30 | |
| k4n0 | #action send mail regarding subunit2json to openstack-dev | 17:30 |
| andreykurilin | k4n0, ok | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | #action send mail regarding subunit2json to openstack-dev | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | #topic OpenStack cross service project profiler | 17:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack cross service project profiler (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:32 | |
| boris-42 | Okay guys I finally finished work on osprofiler | 17:32 |
| k4n0 | great :) | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | https://github.com/stackforge/osprofiler | 17:32 |
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| boris-42 | ^ There are just read me and small py33 fix left | 17:32 |
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| boris-42 | and I'll cut release | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | After that I'll start integrating it in upstream | 17:33 |
| boris-42 | to integrate it in upstream we will need to put a couple of small patches | 17:33 |
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| boris-42 | https://github.com/boris-42/nova/commit/9ebe86bf5b4cc7150251396cfb302dd05e89085d this is sample of nova integration | 17:33 |
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| boris-42 | and this is required in ceilometer https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100239/ | 17:34 |
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| boris-42 | so as all patches are ready there is a bit bureaucracy | 17:34 |
| boris-42 | about blue prints and specs and so on | 17:34 |
| k4n0 | waiting for ceilometer patch to merge? | 17:34 |
| boris-42 | I need to make ceilometer-spec | 17:35 |
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| boris-42 | to get approved this stuff | 17:35 |
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| k4n0 | ok, so we need spec + patch for other projects also | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 yep | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 I will make one template | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 and copy paste it lol | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:36 |
| k4n0 | ok | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 but it will take some time | 17:36 |
| k4n0 | lol | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | and then there will be patch in rally | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | that integrates all this stuff so it will work out of box | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:37 |
| k4n0 | looking forward | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | and we will get traces for every iteration | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | in such format http://pavlovic.me/rally/profiler/ | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | #topic open discussion | 17:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:38 | |
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| boris-42 | somebody would like to discuss anything ? | 17:38 |
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| hughsaunders | boris-42: good work on profiler | 17:38 |
| k4n0 | Rally release schedule (rpm, deb, pip) | 17:38 |
| hughsaunders | k4n0: need versions before releases | 17:39 |
| k4n0 | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/rally/+spec/rally-distribution-packages | 17:39 |
| k4n0 | Yes | 17:39 |
| k4n0 | We need to discuss how we will version | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | yep this is good topic for discussion k4n0 | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | when we are going to start versioning crap? | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | marcoemorais hughsaunders msdubov ^ | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | I think there should be next topics | 17:41 |
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| hughsaunders | boris-42: as you've said previously its a trade off against velocity. We should start versioning when we intend to support the current version for a while, so UI, API, DB etc | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | are we going to support upgrades? | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders but we can just avoid supporting of upgrades | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | till moment X | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | e.g. 0.*.* is without supporting upgrades | 17:42 |
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| boris-42 | 1.*.* will be with support upgrades | 17:43 |
| hughsaunders | I guess so.. we could go with the openstack cadence, release every 6 months, then that gives a time frame to work in | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders nope | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders I think it will be better to make short releases 1.5-2weeks | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | without supporting upgrades | 17:44 |
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| k4n0 | how about going with tempest release cycle? the branchless one | 17:44 |
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| boris-42 | until we will have stable API/UI/DB | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 there is no more branches | 17:44 |
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| boris-42 | k4n0 plus why we need to be aligned with them at all? | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 imho versions should be done depending on changes in Rally | 17:45 |
| k4n0 | yes, bad idea, :) | 17:45 |
| k4n0 | just a thought | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | if we have a lot of changes for 1 week we can make version | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | if there is no changes we can wait 2 or even more weeks | 17:45 |
| k4n0 | how do we define "lot of changes" ? | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | i'll define=) | 17:46 |
| k4n0 | ok :) | 17:46 |
| k4n0 | works for me | 17:46 |
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| boris-42 | depending on temperature on Mars | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:46 |
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| boris-42 | so | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | about versioning | 17:46 |
| k4n0 | I am trying to get a rpm built internally in my office | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | x.x.* should be backward comp. fully | 17:47 |
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| boris-42 | e.g. the same DB can be used with x.x.N and x.xN+K | 17:47 |
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| hughsaunders | boris-42: so push a tag to the repo every few weeks? | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders yep | 17:47 |
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| boris-42 | x.N.* and x.N+1.* are not backward compability | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | and there is no upgrade for such change | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | cause I don't want to lose time at this point for upgrades | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders so actually we will make releases like python clients | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders they are doing it on demand | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 ^ | 17:48 |
| hughsaunders | ok | 17:49 |
| k4n0 | +1 | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | when we will be enough stable | 17:49 |
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| boris-42 | when we move to 1.*.* | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | we will start supporting upgrades | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 hughsaunders so current versioning will be some kind of baby step to the full versioning | 17:50 |
| k4n0 | got it | 17:50 |
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| hughsaunders | boris-42: seems like a good idea, so we get the process going for releasing, but without the stability requirements as its 0.0.x | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | k4n0 could you put this in blueprint? | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders yep | 17:51 |
| k4n0 | boris-42: yes, on it | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders and when we get stability we will have all process about versioning and other stuff ready | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | hughsaunders and with good experience | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:52 |
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| hughsaunders | Sounds good | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | Other topics to dicuss? | 17:52 |
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| k4n0 | nothing from my side | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | okay let's just finish meeting=) | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | Glad to see you guys | 17:53 |
| k4n0 | ok, cya. thanks all | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "launchpad openid is down. login to openstack services will fail until launchpad openid is happy again" | 17:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 17 17:54:17 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:54 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-06-17-17.00.html | 17:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-06-17-17.00.txt | 17:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-06-17-17.00.log.html | 17:54 |
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| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 17:58 |
| ayoung | I'm here | 17:58 |
| gyee | \o | 17:58 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: o/ | 17:58 |
| kwss_ | hello | 17:58 |
| henrynash | the man is hot to trot…. | 17:59 |
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| bknudson | hi | 17:59 |
| morganfainberg | (>'-')> <('-'<) ^(' - ')^ <('-'<) (>'-')> | 17:59 |
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| marekd|away | \o/ | 17:59 |
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| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 17 18:00:16 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:00 |
| dolphm | #topic Juno hackathon | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Juno hackathon (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:00 | |
| morganfainberg | yay hackathon! | 18:00 |
| stevemar | ahoy | 18:00 |
| dolphm | so just one quick update that should hopefully be inconsequential for the most part... | 18:00 |
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| dolphm | we've completely moved the event to the *other* geekdom building @ 110 E Houston St, San Antonio, TX 78205 | 18:01 |
| dstanek | dolphm: is that the old or new one? | 18:01 |
| dolphm | which is a tiny bit closer to the Valencia | 18:01 |
| bknudson | what happened? | 18:01 |
| dolphm | dstanek: this is Geekdom's new space | 18:01 |
| lbragstad | #link https://www.google.com/maps/place/110+E+Houston+St/@29.4262771,-98.4935065,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x865c5f52c3e335c1:0xaa931eb0dee8ded4 | 18:01 |
| boris-42 | morganfainberg hackathon hmm interseting | 18:01 |
| dolphm | bknudson: the event space was too big for us, i suppose? | 18:01 |
| stevemar | ty lbragstad | 18:01 |
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| stevemar | dolphm, is the valencia still a good hotel spot? | 18:02 |
| ayoung | I was just going to follow the crowd there from the Hotel anyway | 18:02 |
| ayoung | stevemar, this is "closer" | 18:02 |
| dolphm | stevemar: yes, see the map on: | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #link http://dolphm.com/openstack-keystone-hackathon-for-juno/ | 18:02 |
| dstanek | dolphm: ah, nice. yes, closer. | 18:02 |
| * morganfainberg needs to book flight to SAT. | 18:02 | |
| stevemar | neato | 18:02 |
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| * stevemar also needs to book a flight to SAT | 18:03 | |
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| dstanek | is the barbican one at this location too? | 18:03 |
| dolphm | dstanek: yeah, we'll be colocating with barbican on wednesday | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | cool | 18:03 |
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| morganfainberg | i'll be there for wed -> fri. (wont make it for barbican mon/tues) | 18:03 |
| dstanek | cool, i'm planning on attending barbican too - i'll be in SAT for the whole week | 18:04 |
| dolphm | dstanek: oh cool | 18:04 |
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| dolphm | #topic Spec Approval Requirements | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec Approval Requirements (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: i can't remember if you put this on the agenda for this week, or if i left it on from last week? | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | i changed it | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | actually | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | right before the meeting >.> | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | but it should be spec approval deadlines for juno | 18:05 |
| bknudson | There's a Ripley's in san antonio | 18:05 |
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| morganfainberg | do we want a deadline for spec approvals | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | where if it isn't in - we aren't accepting it. i don't mean the J2 code thing | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | Nova is doing a deadline of the first milestone I believe... They also have a ton of specs to review | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | or is J2 the deadline | 18:06 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: like, you need to land a spec in j1 to land an implementation in j2 or j3? | 18:06 |
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| bknudson | seems like if it can get in in time then that's the deadline | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, basically | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, do we want a hard cut off of "look the spec isn't going through this cycle" | 18:06 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: obviously we can't meet that for j2, but i'd love to say that if you don't land a spec by the end of j2, you're missing juno completely | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, I would say that the dead line for spec approval would vary if it is an API change or not | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ works for me | 18:07 |
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| ayoung | for API change, code still needs to be in J2 | 18:07 |
| ayoung | spec approval needs to lead that, but probably not by much | 18:07 |
| ayoung | but why not do the same for J3? | 18:08 |
| dolphm | ayoung: this would mean that API specs need to be proposed and accepted by milestone 1, to be implemented in milestone 2 | 18:08 |
| ayoung | dolphm, not what I'm saying | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | this was more of a "should we have a spec deadline" and if so what is it, question | 18:08 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I'm saying : spec needs to be approved before the code, but not by much | 18:08 |
| ayoung | I say "no" | 18:08 |
| ayoung | we have code deadlines only | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | this is to direct how we prioritise reviewing specs as well | 18:09 |
| ayoung | and specs need to be progressing to keep the code moving | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | if it's only code deadlines we need to keep eyes on specs 100% of the time. | 18:09 |
| ayoung | we can try to lead things more in K, L and M.... | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | else, we can say specs (not modifications, new specs) are only from X to Y | 18:09 |
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| ayoung | how about a cutoff for submitting new specs? | 18:09 |
| dolphm | ayoung: right, we're talking more about j3 and beyond | 18:09 |
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| stevemar | we should get some leeway this release, i doubt anyone was thinking the specs would take this long... | 18:10 |
| dolphm | we're already into j2, and we have mature specs that can realistically land in j2. but moving forward, the hard cutoff for submitting new specs can simply be a milestone ahead | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i like it | 18:11 |
| stevemar | thats fair | 18:11 |
| dolphm | so, the earliest this type of policy could take effect is for j3: to land a change in j3 (and therefore juno), the spec should land before the J2 deadline (whatever the date is in late july) | 18:11 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I knew specs would take this long | 18:12 |
| ayoung | look at the team, and how detail oriented we've been on past things | 18:12 |
| ayoung | did you rally think specs would be any different? | 18:12 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, ++ | 18:12 |
| stevemar | ayoung, i was hoping.. | 18:12 |
| stevemar | i was never really 100% *for* specs to begin with | 18:13 |
| stevemar | but we got what we got :) | 18:13 |
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| dolphm | stevemar: some specs will move fast. highly impactful ones will move slowly (unfortunately, most of the currently proposed ones are big :) | 18:13 |
| stevemar | dolphm, i suppose | 18:13 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I'm kindof with you on that. But I think that the review process is valuable, just we are really, really paranoid | 18:13 |
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| stevemar | did we decide on a way to approve them yet? last week was voting in a meeting, but some went through +2/+A process | 18:14 |
| bknudson | those of us who have to deal with security vulnerabilities are paranoid for a reason | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, vote is the general thumbs up/thumbs down. | 18:14 |
| ayoung | stevemar, I pushed for the vote just to get people looking at them and saying "I'm comfortable with this" | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, after that it's 2x+2/+A (as per last meeting) | 18:14 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I know. I'm backporting a patch to Grizzly as we speak | 18:14 |
| stevemar | morgabra, cool! | 18:14 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: you need to change your nick now | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, damn it | 18:15 |
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| bknudson | ayoung: me too... we need to get the community to support older releases. | 18:15 |
| bknudson | it's probably the same one | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, yep...lets compare notes after the meeting | 18:15 |
| stevemar | hehe, whoops! morganfainberg not morgabra | 18:15 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, there was talk about increasing length of time on support for icehouse iirc | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, don't know if we will resurrect grizzly | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | though | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | or icehouse and havana | 18:16 |
| bknudson | no, we won't resurrect grizzly | 18:16 |
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| bknudson | maybe on github | 18:16 |
| dolphm | #action specs must be approved ahead of the milestone in which they are to be targeted/merged. for example, a j3 feature must have an approved spec land no later than the deadline for j2. | 18:17 |
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| bknudson | does approved here mean merged? | 18:17 |
| bknudson | or voted on in the meeting? | 18:17 |
| dolphm | bknudson: merged is what i meant | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, merged. | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | juno has some extra leeway because we started late though. | 18:18 |
| dolphm | juno-2 | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ juno2 | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | we'll go case-by-case for juno-2 features, but i don't think there will be any surprises | 18:18 |
| dolphm | #topic Criteria for next release of client | 18:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Criteria for next release of client (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:18 | |
| dolphm | ayoung: o/ | 18:18 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, thanks | 18:18 |
| bknudson | let's try not to break everyone with the next release of the client | 18:19 |
| dolphm | bknudson: s/next/any/ | 18:19 |
| ayoung | OK, so there are a bunch of changes that need to land for features in Juno. Want to make sure we are aligned in purpose | 18:19 |
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| ayoung | Split of middleware repo? | 18:19 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, you've been working on that | 18:19 |
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| ayoung | what do we think is the timeline? | 18:20 |
| dolphm | there's a proposed spec for that hasn't merged :) | 18:20 |
| dolphm | for that which* | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, well, it's not hard to split it. | 18:20 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, what are the practical | 18:20 |
| ayoung | ramiofications of splitting it? | 18:20 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, it's the testing and release process that is going to be hard | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | for the first round | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | lots of code shuffling | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | i would say this is not a next release thing | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | this is a "we will get it done in the Juno cycle" thing. | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, do we want in place for Juno? | 18:21 |
| ayoung | and, if so, what do we try to sync it around? | 18:21 |
| bknudson | 6663e13 Make get_oauth_params conditional for specific oauthlib versions | 18:21 |
| bknudson | oh, that was a test issue | 18:21 |
| ayoung | bknudson, isn't that in already? | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | client and middleware will release the same way. separate from the named releases | 18:21 |
| ayoung | I'm more concerned about pending reviews | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i'd rather work on this in J3. | 18:22 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, ++ | 18:22 |
| bknudson | I was checking if there was a reason for a release now. I don't think there is. | 18:22 |
| gyee | yeah, there are a bunch of client reviews that have impact on integration | 18:22 |
| ayoung | OK so...let me skip to audit for a second then | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, make sure we don't block feature work. | 18:22 |
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| ayoung | audit is gordon chung's work | 18:22 |
| ayoung | and we were talking about putting it in to the client | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, and that (iirc) is going in oslo? | 18:22 |
| bknudson | middleware? | 18:22 |
| ayoung | does it make sense to wait until after the split to get that in, as it is middleware? | 18:23 |
| bknudson | seems like it would be a mistake to put it in keystoneclient and then move it to middleware | 18:23 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, we had discussed putting the audit middleware in keystoneclient, with an eye to a longer term integration between policy and audit | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i can do the split earlier if we need to split first | 18:23 |
| ayoung | bknudson, ++ which is why I was thinking of pushing for the split sooner | 18:24 |
| ayoung | also to flush out the issues with the split | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | it's basically just putting a moratorium on new changes to the middleware/affecting the middleware until the split is complete | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | and we have a 1st release of the new pypi package | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | and global reqs update | 18:24 |
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| bknudson | I don't know if I can stop myself from fiddling with auth_token middleware, | 18:24 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, maybe we get it that far: | 18:24 |
| gyee | is there a compelling reason to do the split earlier? seem like our priority should be on keystoneclient integration | 18:25 |
| ayoung | bknudson, we have a lot of changes queued up for that. It might be easier to postpone moving AT to the middleware repo until we have it completely refactored | 18:25 |
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| ayoung | gyee, ++ | 18:25 |
| dolphm | who's creating the new repo? morganfainberg? | 18:25 |
| bknudson | although it's no problem for me to move a review from python-keystoneclient to a different repo | 18:25 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, yes. | 18:25 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: can you fork keystoneclient to do so? | 18:26 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, so lets hold off on moving auth token, but we have other middleware we could move | 18:26 |
| ayoung | just to seed the new repo | 18:26 |
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| bknudson | I think there's a script that oslo uses for moving stuff to a lib | 18:26 |
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| bknudson | not sure what it does | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, is is extracting the middleware and the history | 18:26 |
| gyee | s3, nobody care about that one :) | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, its not even a fork | 18:26 |
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| morganfainberg | its just not having to propose the same patches over and over again to multiple places. | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, s3 i'm not super worried about changes coming into atm | 18:27 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: it's the history i wanted to keep; we'll talk after | 18:27 |
| ayoung | ok, so here is the ordering then, that I think we need to focus on | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, yeah we will keep the history | 18:27 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, that is part of the plan | 18:27 |
| ayoung | 1. kerberos and session | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | 2. auth_token using revocation events | 18:27 |
| ayoung | 3. Split repo | 18:27 |
| ayoung | 4. audit | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i'll be using the olso-incubator method for maintaining it and extracting the files | 18:27 |
| gyee | ayoung, make sense | 18:28 |
| gyee | may want to swap 3. and 4. | 18:28 |
| gyee | I think audit can happen before split repo | 18:28 |
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| stevemar | whats there to do for auditing on the client side? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | gyee, I thought we said it makes no sense to put audit into client, just to move it to middleware? | 18:28 |
| ayoung | gyee, true. | 18:28 |
| gyee | but they are independent | 18:29 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ack | 18:29 |
| ayoung | gyee, the difference will just be in pipeline definition | 18:29 |
| bknudson | the audit middleware move is essentially the same as all the other middleware, so maybe not that big of a deal | 18:29 |
| bknudson | I assume they're just going to import from the new repo so that it's backwards compat | 18:29 |
| ayoung | filter=keystonclien.Audit vs keystonemiddleware.Audit | 18:29 |
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| dolphm | what is this the priority of, exactly? these all seem like parallelizable (is that a word?) efforts | 18:30 |
| bknudson | but it does seem like a waste to have to support the audit middleware import | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | OK...so...go and review client code, please | 18:30 |
| ayoung | dolphm, that's all I got on that | 18:30 |
| ayoung | dolphm, not quite | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | the only concern is preserving history is a 1 shot deal, it's the initial import | 18:30 |
| dolphm | #action review client code | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | session needs to go in before the revoke events can ggo in | 18:30 |
| gyee | ayoung ++ | 18:31 |
| ayoung | but beyond that, yeah, parallelizable, just prioritization | 18:31 |
| dolphm | ayoung: are those reviews dependent? | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | so i can't peserve history on a separate bit of code w/o resubmitting all the patches unless it's done at the split time. | 18:31 |
| gyee | dolphm, client integration depending on session | 18:31 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: fair enough | 18:31 |
| bknudson | I'd expect during the split there's no merging | 18:31 |
| stevemar | ayoung, are there any patches / blueprints for audit? | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, not 'session in authtoken' and 'revocation in auth token' as session needs to be there for revoke to use | 18:32 |
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| gyee | yeah, that too | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, thats the idea, it should be maybe 1wk to get the split done (based on infra needing to approve the new repo) | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, worst case. | 18:32 |
| ayoung | stevemar, no, as it is existing code, just giving it a place to live | 18:32 |
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| bknudson | I think they do it on fridays | 18:32 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, yep, thats why i said worst case, a week | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | :) | 18:32 |
| gyee | that including weekend? | 18:33 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, depends on when everything is done | 18:33 |
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| dolphm | #topic Dynamic fetch of Policy | 18:33 |
| dolphm | ayoung: o/ | 18:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Dynamic fetch of Policy (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:33 | |
| ayoung | OK...so, there are a few conflicting goals | 18:33 |
| bknudson | I believe we read the policy file on every op now? | 18:34 |
| dolphm | ayoung: can you move this off the wiki and into a spec? | 18:34 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I will once I have a clear view. I started a new spec, that I think I am going to trash, though | 18:34 |
| ayoung | the goal is for an endpoint to get its policy from keystone | 18:34 |
| dolphm | which is really an oslo.policy topic first | 18:35 |
| ayoung | that leads to a couple questions | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | 1. How does Keystone/ or the endpoint know which policy to serve | 18:35 |
| ayoung | I posted a spec to make it an explicit link, but I think that goes against the current thinking | 18:35 |
| ayoung | right now, a policy file is uploaded, and gets a UUID | 18:36 |
| ayoung | there is no associateion between that UUID and anything | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | so, dolphm recognized that there is no need to know "what service" as all of the policy rules are prefixed buy the service name | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | identity for keystone rules, and so forth | 18:36 |
| lbragstad | so each endpoints has a policy, /endpoint/<endpoint_id>/policy/<policy_id>/ | 18:36 |
| henrynash | ayoung: quickie…do you mean endpoint or service….so this is to support an endpoint in region A having different policies to an endpoint of teh same service in Rgion B ? | 18:36 |
| ayoung | we could, in theory, just lump them all together | 18:36 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, I mean both | 18:37 |
| ayoung | henrynash, that is one goal | 18:37 |
| henrynash | ayoung: ok, got it | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | to be able to send a different policy to different endpoints for the same service | 18:37 |
| ayoung | henrynash, so the rule is something like: | 18:37 |
| ayoung | if there is an explicit something for an endpoint, serve that, otherwise, use the global | 18:37 |
| ayoung | but... | 18:37 |
| ayoung | endpoints don' | 18:38 |
| ayoung | t know who they are | 18:38 |
| ayoung | we don't set an endpoint ID in the config file | 18:38 |
| ayoung | we give them a user | 18:38 |
| ayoung | and all operations from that endpoint use that user id | 18:38 |
| henrynash | ayoungL the big obvious advantage I see is that you can have different policies for, say, a production region/AZ vs a test region/AZ | 18:38 |
| ayoung | now, with henrynash 's incipient patch, we have a clean way to segregate the service users | 18:38 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, so I was thinking we could link policy to the service user | 18:39 |
| dolphm | we discussed this at the summit in terms of hierarchical multitenancy as well, with the notion that all policies between the project in context and the root/null project would apply equally (you'd have to match any rule that appeared in any of them... in other words, they're all AND'ed together) | 18:39 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, and fetch policy based on the project for that service user. | 18:39 |
| dolphm | which means that project-specific policy can only narrow the parent's policy | 18:39 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, so...to avoid confusion | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | I am not shooting for "project specific policy" where the project means the project containing the resource | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | only the "project" for the service users for now | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | and I am not planning on doing stackable policy right now | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | unless it is the only way to get this implements | 18:41 |
| ayoung | implemented | 18:41 |
| dolphm | ayoung: well if you're thinking in that direction, then it wouldn't be the service user's project, it would be the requesting user's project | 18:41 |
| dolphm | the service user's project is basically meaningless today anyway | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, right. But we also don't fetch policy at all. So how would we know what the root policy is? | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, are you suggesting that we jump right to stackable, and that we fetch policy based on the requesting users project? | 18:43 |
| bknudson | do the services know what their endpoint is now? | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, no | 18:43 |
| dolphm | ayoung: if project_id was a first class attribute on policies, then you could also do something like GET/v3/policies?project_id=& | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i don't think so. | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, yes. That was my thinking | 18:44 |
| henrynash | ayoung: one issue we get a lot from customers is how can we use roles to determin where a user can deploy resource from a given project to a given region/AZ…..(i.e. Adam is special so he can deploy anywhere, but Henry’s a tester so he can only deploy to teh test region)…anything tht can help that in a clean fashion would be great and I’d help with | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, the only issue then becomes how do we merge policy for different services | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | take the status quo | 18:44 |
| dolphm | ayoung: that sounds like a one time manual process | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | we have policy.json checked in to the repo for each project | 18:45 |
| dolphm | "building a policy for your deployment" | 18:45 |
| ayoung | so are we going to provide a global policy file? | 18:45 |
| gyee | hierarchical multipolicy | 18:45 |
| ayoung | it means that each of the openstack services no longer owns the default policy for themselves, and that seems wrong | 18:46 |
| ayoung | I would think that Keystone should provide: | 18:46 |
| ayoung | 1. Basica policy enforcment\ | 18:46 |
| ayoung | 2. Basic policy fetch | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | 3. Default rules for ais_Admin and the like | 18:46 |
| ayoung | and 4. rule for identity | 18:46 |
| ayoung | rules | 18:46 |
| ayoung | then the other services would extend the base policy | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | there is also the question of all of the *aaS new projects | 18:47 |
| ayoung | what about something that is just incubated? | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | I think we want to keep policy management separated by service | 18:48 |
| bknudson | service users are created in keystone (by devstack), projects could create their policy the same way | 18:48 |
| gyee | whahhh? policy as a separable service? | 18:48 |
| ayoung | no | 18:48 |
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| dstanek | gyee: each service having it's own policy | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | gyee, just that base policy editing for Nova is done by Nova team, and base policy editing for Glance is done by the glance team | 18:49 |
| henrynash | dstanek: ++ | 18:49 |
| gyee | come to think of it, why not? | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | I think there is a benefit, though, to dolphm 's idea of merging them into a singe file | 18:49 |
| ayoung | single | 18:49 |
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| ayoung | as it allows for reuse of rules | 18:49 |
| bknudson | devstack could just `openstack policy-add nova/policy.json` | 18:50 |
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| gyee | if you look at oslo policy code, it has hooks for remote policy enforcement | 18:50 |
| ayoung | bknudson, so...if we keep them as separate blobs, that will work | 18:50 |
| gyee | just saying | 18:50 |
| ayoung | it just means that when we fetch, we have to get the correct blob for the service, and that is what I am aiming to lock down | 18:51 |
| ayoung | what does the API look like for fetching policy? | 18:51 |
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| bknudson | nova has policy ID in its .conf, and fetches that one | 18:51 |
| dolphm | gyee: oh that's new to me | 18:51 |
| bknudson | or are we trying to avoid that? | 18:51 |
| ayoung | is it by endpoint id or is it by service user project? | 18:51 |
| gyee | dolphm, I remember it supports http brain or something like that | 18:52 |
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| gyee | but I haven't dig into that code for awhile | 18:52 |
| ayoung | bknudson, if you do that, you have to admin each endpoint separately. | 18:52 |
| ayoung | IE...I want poicy to change for endpoin E, I first upload the new policy file, then go and edit the config file on E | 18:52 |
| ayoung | that seems wrong | 18:53 |
| ayoung | just put it in E | 18:53 |
| ayoung | it only makes sense if we want keystone to be the policy store | 18:53 |
| dolphm | (5 minutes left, and we have a few updates from henrynash to cover) | 18:53 |
| ayoung | if we don't lets deprecate policy, but I think we do want it | 18:53 |
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| lbragstad | take this topic to -keystone after the meeting? | 18:53 |
| dolphm | ++ and -specs! :) | 18:53 |
| dolphm | #topic Multi-backend Unique Identifiers | 18:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Multi-backend Unique Identifiers (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:53 | |
| dolphm | henrynash: o/ | 18:54 |
| henrynash | ok, very quikcly | 18:54 |
| ayoung | dolphm, I'll write the spec once I know the scheme | 18:54 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100497 | 18:54 |
| henrynash | updated spec publhsed and new patch to match | 18:54 |
| dolphm | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74214/ implementation | 18:54 |
| henrynash | only two questions | 18:54 |
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| henrynash | 1) The patch is big since it includes all the mechanical unit test changes of moving ID gernation from controller ot manager… | 18:54 |
| ayoung | don't split | 18:55 |
| ayoung | it will delay. | 18:55 |
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| ayoung | Its not such a terrible patch. | 18:55 |
| henrynash | …it would be a bit of a pain to split it up so that part goes in separately…but will do so if peopel feel that’s imporant | 18:55 |
| ayoung | the number of changes is irrelevant, as they are all mostly doing the same thing | 18:55 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: splitting will also get patches in more quickly with better review coverage / more stability | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | splitting would mkae the review much easier | 18:56 |
| lbragstad | 2224 lines is a lot of patch | 18:56 |
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| dolphm | lbragstad: ++ | 18:56 |
| ayoung | disagree | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | but i am willing to review it as is. i would prefer it split | 18:56 |
| ayoung | splitting at this point will make it harder | 18:56 |
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| ayoung | so what | 18:56 |
| lbragstad | bite sized reviews will be easier | 18:56 |
| ayoung | we still need to review 2224 lines | 18:56 |
| ayoung | just in two patches as opposed to one | 18:56 |
| lbragstad | but in functional change sets it's more manageable | 18:56 |
| dstanek | for the patch in question i had to start splitting it up to understand it - i would vote for smaller patches | 18:57 |
| dstanek | ayoung: it's about context and how much you have to keep in your head at once | 18:57 |
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| dolphm | dstanek: ++ | 18:57 |
| bknudson | there get to be too many comments on large reviews and reviewers get tired of looking at the same changes over and over again. | 18:57 |
| henrynash | and question 2) is….should we salt the hash of the ID with something that is unique to each “cloud” in case anyone is worried about the same LDAP users in the default domain having the same ID from two clouds | 18:57 |
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| morganfainberg | a study was done and said peer review quality goes waaaay down over 400lines of change | 18:57 |
| lifeless | goes down before then | 18:57 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: i'd like a bot to -1 when we cross that threshold :) | 18:58 |
| lifeless | but thats the cliff | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | lifeless, ++ | 18:58 |
| ayoung | henrynash, salt can be a follow on patch | 18:58 |
| ayoung | I think it is a stand alone feature. | 18:58 |
| dolphm | (time) | 18:58 |
| ayoung | Lets not hold this up for it, | 18:58 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "launchpad openid is down. login to openstack services will fail until launchpad openid is happy again" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 17 18:59:26 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-06-17-18.00.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-06-17-18.00.txt | 18:59 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-06-17-18.00.log.html | 18:59 |
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| anteaya | o/ | 19:00 |
| jeblair | hello | 19:00 |
| anteaya | hello | 19:00 |
| anteaya | let's gather some others | 19:00 |
| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:00 |
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| clarkb | o/ | 19:01 |
| wenlock_ | hi | 19:01 |
| jesusaurus | hullo | 19:01 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:01 |
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| e0ne | hi | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:01 |
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| mordred | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 17 19:01:46 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| reed | o/ halfway here, the other half helping martin | 19:01 |
| ttx | o/ | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | agenda ^ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-06-10-19.02.html | 19:02 |
| jeblair | last meeting ^ | 19:02 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #topic Upgrade jenkins build-timeout plugin (zaro) | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Upgrade jenkins build-timeout plugin (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97651 | 19:02 |
| zaro | just wanted to know what the process is for this to get done | 19:02 |
| jeblair | cool, as i recall, we almost upgraded to this until we saw that the released a version that fixed a perf bug | 19:03 |
| zaro | do we just wait for next opportunity or plan something? | 19:03 |
| jeblair | or rather, we almost upgraded to 1.13, and saw that they released 1.14 which fixed the perf bug | 19:03 |
| * fungi lurks from a wireless modem in the midst of an empty townhouse | 19:03 | |
| jeblair | but it looks like from your commit msg, 1.14 should be safe for us | 19:03 |
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| anteaya | hey fungi | 19:03 |
| zaro | yep. | 19:03 |
| jeblair | so i think what we should do is a rolling upgrade of the numbered jenkins masters | 19:04 |
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| * morganfainberg is lurking here as well. | 19:04 | |
| jeblair | an infra-core should put one in shutdown mode, upgrade it when all jobs are finished | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | keep an eye on that one jenkins for a bit, and if it works, maybe do 2 or more at a time after that | 19:04 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:05 |
| jesusaurus | ++ | 19:05 |
| fungi | sounds good | 19:05 |
| clarkb | I am happy to volunteer for that once I am feeling well | 19:05 |
| anteaya | do we need a slow time for this or anytime? | 19:05 |
| jeblair | anteaya: anytime will be okay | 19:05 |
| anteaya | k | 19:05 |
| jeblair | i can pitch in after today | 19:05 |
| anteaya | clarkb: think you might be better by the end of the week? | 19:05 |
| jesusaurus | how many jenkins masters are there again? | 19:06 |
| clarkb | anteaya: yes and if I am not I will be cranky | 19:06 |
| clarkb | jesusaurus: 8 | 19:06 |
| anteaya | 8 I think | 19:06 |
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| anteaya | clarkb: no cranky | 19:06 |
| jeblair | jesusaurus: 8 -- seven numbered, plus jenkins.o.o itself, which we'll probably do last | 19:06 |
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| jesusaurus | and how long does it usually take for a master to finish its currently running jobs? | 19:06 |
| jeblair | i'll try to start on it tomorrow | 19:06 |
| jeblair | jesusaurus: about an hour | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | this might end up taking a few days, which i think is okay, it's not urgent | 19:07 |
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| jesusaurus | so a rolling upgrade is at quickest a full day | 19:07 |
| jeblair | yup | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | #action jeblair and clarkb if feeling better to upgrade jenkins timeout plugin starting june 18 | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | zaro: good? | 19:08 |
| zaro | sounds good | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #topic Create release of python-jenkins? (zaro) | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Create release of python-jenkins? (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
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| jeblair | this project has progressed quickly. :) | 19:09 |
| zaro | any plan for this at all? i think it would help jjb | 19:09 |
| jeblair | zaro: who is active on python-jenkins? | 19:09 |
| zaro | me, hashar and msbramo | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | zaro: do you think everyone is in agreement about making a release? | 19:11 |
| zaro | i haven't checked that. just wanted to know if there was any plan to release anytime soon? | 19:12 |
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| jeblair | zaro: is python-jenkins fully pbr now? | 19:12 |
| zaro | i can double check with the group and let you know. | 19:12 |
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| zaro | jeblair: don't remember off the top of my head, but i think there might still be an oustanding change for pbr. | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | zaro: i'd propose the following: | 19:13 |
| jeblair | 1) merge pbr support | 19:13 |
| zaro | i think this is it https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90455 | 19:13 |
| jeblair | 2) get agreement from hashar and msbramo about making a release | 19:14 |
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| zaro | can you help with 1? review i mean? | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | zaro: i think you and hashar both know how to push tags correctly for a pbr release yeah? if so, i think we should add you, and you can teach msbramo if he wants to join too | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | 3) one of you pushes a tag | 19:15 |
| zaro | sounds good | 19:15 |
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| clarkb | ++ | 19:16 |
| jeblair | yeah, i can review that. hopefully mordred too | 19:16 |
| * mordred can argue with mgagne ... | 19:16 | |
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| mordred | a new version of python-jenkins is not going to get added to precise in any case | 19:16 |
| mgagne | mordred: ok | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | i note a comment about supporting precise; if we find we need to do a security release, we could always branch from the initial import commit and make such a release manually | 19:17 |
| mordred | so there's _always_ going to be a PPA involved for people who want new python-jenkins on old ubuntu | 19:17 |
| mgagne | mordred: the essence of my comment is: "It's not a strong -1. I'm however warning about the work this could generate for downstream packaging python-jenkins which is a detail we often forget." | 19:17 |
| mordred | mgagne: ++ | 19:17 |
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| jeblair | mgagne, zaro: we should probably do a version bump significant enough to note the major change introduced by pbr | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | (and leave room for a security point release from the current version number if we need to) | 19:19 |
| mgagne | mordred: openstack is "cool" because it has special attention from downstream, not python-jenkins. So we shouldn't lightly add tools known to be exclusively used by openstack projects to non-openstack projects and hope downstream will keep up with it. | 19:19 |
| jeblair | aw man, i thought we were cooler than openstack ;) | 19:20 |
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| mgagne | jeblair: uberstack | 19:20 |
| anteaya | with umlaut | 19:20 |
| jeblair | okay, we can probably continue that on the review | 19:20 |
| nibalizer | überstack | 19:20 |
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| anteaya | there we go | 19:20 |
| jeblair | if pbr doesn't land, erm, we'll do something else :) | 19:21 |
| jeblair | #topic roadmap for gerrit to consume the openid provider (reed) | 19:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roadmap for gerrit to consume the openid provider (reed) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:21 | |
| mordred | I'm going to continue to push on that topic | 19:21 |
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| mordred | but I grok mgagne's concerns - so I'l see if I can write something up re: solutions | 19:21 |
| reed | so... | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-dev/%23openstack-dev.2014-06-13.log | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | timestamp 2014-06-13T18:20:11 | 19:22 |
| reed | the current status of the openid project is that the code is working on openstackid-dev | 19:22 |
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| reed | the connection to the real user database is not live yet, it's pending the move of such database from cloudsites to a Rackspace virtual server | 19:23 |
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| anteaya | who is in charge of that move? | 19:23 |
| anteaya | and is it scheduled? | 19:23 |
| reed | the move has been approved and is technically without problems, it just needs to happen | 19:23 |
| jeblair | reed: why not trove? | 19:24 |
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| reed | Todd is in charge of that move, it has not been scheduled yet (I have no ETA) | 19:24 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:24 |
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| mordred | that was ++ to "why not trove" | 19:24 |
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| reed | jeblair, because trove requires a lot more changes and time we don't have | 19:24 |
| jeblair | reed: it's just a mysql database | 19:24 |
| reed | jeblair, I think it has to do with the deployment system that they use | 19:25 |
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| anteaya | can we get Todd to come to Germany? | 19:25 |
| reed | jeblair, honestly, I don't know the details, trove was not considered a 'simple move' and I ditched it | 19:25 |
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| reed | anteaya, you can ask, not sure it would help | 19:25 |
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| anteaya | kk, I'll see what I can do | 19:26 |
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| reed | to go back to the timeline, once we move Silverstripe to RAX Managed Servers we can think about deploying to the final 'home' | 19:26 |
| mordred | WOW. WHAT???? | 19:26 |
| anteaya | what is Silverstripe? | 19:27 |
| mordred | ok. I'm sorry. I'm not going to keep my mouth shut about that. that's the most assinine thing I've ever heard from the openstack foundation | 19:27 |
| reed | that will be something like openstackid.org or openstackcommunity.org or anything | 19:27 |
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| reed | mordred: no, it's not, we can take that on the list if you prefer | 19:27 |
| mordred | WE MAKE CLOUD SOFTWARE. the foundation should USE IT | 19:27 |
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| reed | mordred: yep, rackspace does cloud software too and the move is to openstack based cloud | 19:28 |
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| mordred | you just said "RAX Managed Servers" | 19:28 |
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| mordred | that's a non-cloud product that rackspace sells to people where you get a server that they help you admin | 19:28 |
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| * mordred walks away before he screams more | 19:29 | |
| reed | mordred: wrong name then.. it's RAX product where they run the virtual machines for you | 19:29 |
| ttx | managed cloud instances maybe | 19:29 |
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| reed | that's it,ttx, thanks | 19:29 |
| ttx | though my mouth hurts just sayign it | 19:29 |
| jeblair | reed: does the foundation have any intention of having the db and the rest of the website (silverstripe) managed as part of the infrastructure program? | 19:30 |
| reed | the thing is that we need to have openid code in the same cloud as Silverstripe | 19:30 |
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| fungi | concerns were raised during previous discussions that the foundation wanted a vendor with 24x7 on-call support rather than something vulunteer-run | 19:30 |
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| mordred | reed: ^^ jeblair's question? | 19:30 |
| ttx | "Managed Cloud" | 19:30 |
| reed | jeblair, I can't answer for that | 19:30 |
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| jeblair | reed: i ask because we developed a roadmap about two years ago that involved publishing the existing site to cloud sites as an open source app as part of our workflow | 19:31 |
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| ttx | (http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/service-levels/) | 19:31 |
| clarkb | it was san diego then again portland | 19:31 |
| jeblair | reed: and the current plan you describe seems to involve the app continuing to be proprietary and hosted outside of project-acessible resources | 19:31 |
| reed | jeblair, right, I think it's a matter of resources | 19:31 |
| reed | we go back to the underlying issue: deploying with you costs a lot of time | 19:31 |
| jeblair | reed: i have been volunteering for two years to do all of the work | 19:32 |
| reed | *a lot* is a crucial word | 19:32 |
| fungi | there still seem to be some interested parties in foundation management who insist on service-level agreements and a list of escalation phone numbers, et cetera | 19:32 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:32 |
| ttx | jeblair: I think that's the crux of the issue. Does the Foundation want this system to be run by the project infra team, or separate | 19:32 |
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| reed | hi fungi | 19:32 |
| fungi | howdy reed | 19:32 |
| mordred | ttx: well, no. the crux of _this_ issue is if we can let a portion of the infra production system be outside of our ability to fix it | 19:32 |
| reed | ttx: the crux of the issue is that these things need to move fast and infra is the opposite of fast, based on current experience | 19:32 |
| reed | and that's not a judgement, to be clear | 19:33 |
| mordred | it is | 19:33 |
| mordred | and I'm quite literally shaking with rage at the moment | 19:33 |
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| mrmartin | in middle-term we could host the Foundation web related project in a paas hosted by the infra team... | 19:33 |
| ttx | reed: I think in that case, slowness is not really on infra side | 19:33 |
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| fungi | measured, deliberate, careful, maintainable, sustainable... those things *might* be seen by some as the opposite of "fast" | 19:34 |
| jeblair | reed: i will repeat one more time for the record what i've said for the past two years -- point me at the git repo with the site source code and it will be hosted in infra within 2 days. | 19:34 |
| reed | mordred: we can discuss all you want, but openstack.org launched the marketplace in 3 months and openid is still months away | 19:34 |
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| reed | jeblair, for the records, we can keep playing this blame game or move on to the topic at hand | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | reed: if todd and jonathan had put 2 hours of work into the site, then i would have been able to help it move. | 19:35 |
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| reed | jeblair, I believe you | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | reed: as is, we've been told that todd has no time available because he's working on things like the marketplace | 19:35 |
| fungi | mordred puppeted stackalytics in an afternoon, fwiw. i don't know that you can really say the systems automation part is entirely to blame for those sort of development timelines | 19:35 |
| jeblair | it's the opposite of open collaboration and open source | 19:35 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 19:36 |
| reed | jeblair, but besides that, Todd and Jonathan and tipit would have had to put in a lot of extra hours to do things a lot differently | 19:36 |
| mordred | fungi: took 1 hour | 19:36 |
| fungi | mordred: so i exaggerated ;) | 19:36 |
| reed | I have no doubt about your knowledge, it's the rest of the world that I'm concerned about | 19:36 |
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| mordred | reed: the only people who seem to have problems are Todd and tipit | 19:36 |
| reed | mordred: martin has similar issues | 19:37 |
| mordred | the rest of the world thinks we're pretty amazing and go out of their way to copy things we do | 19:37 |
| mordred | in any case | 19:37 |
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| mordred | if openstackid depends on a database that's run by tipit and todd | 19:37 |
| reed | mordred: i know that | 19:37 |
| mordred | I'm not sure we can inject it into our production workflow | 19:37 |
| jeblair | reed: okay, so to the task at hand, i don't personally have an interest in making the project infrastructure depend on _more_ proprietary non-community-run systems. i am willing to help work on making them depend on fewer ones. | 19:37 |
| mordred | because I do not have operational trust in them | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | or what mordred said | 19:37 |
| mordred | based on their trackrecord of breaking things | 19:37 |
| mordred | the do not know how to run operational systems to the level we require | 19:38 |
| mordred | and have proven this over and over again | 19:38 |
| jeblair | i'm also losing trust because the current road map does not match what we have discussed. not by a long shot | 19:38 |
| mordred | so it's a non-starter until this is sorted | 19:38 |
| reed | got it | 19:38 |
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| reed | and it's good for me to, for the time being | 19:38 |
| jeblair | and i do not think we should allow ourselves to end up in an awkward situation based on that | 19:38 |
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| reed | all I care is that I manage to get openid on our infrastructure first, even if it calls a database hosted on openstack, run by rackspace | 19:39 |
| ttx | mordred, reed: i'll take the action of clarifying the ownership/control issue | 19:39 |
| ttx | because this uncertainty has lasted for too long | 19:39 |
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| mordred | ttx: thank you | 19:39 |
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| reed | so first we have that db run on openstack and then we can insist on deploying it with scripts managed in the #infra | 19:40 |
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| reed | I can live with gerrit not adopting openid provider until the SS database is managed via infra | 19:40 |
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| reed | only warning: everybody breaks things, not only tipit | 19:41 |
| mordred | reed: totally | 19:41 |
| mordred | reed: we can just fix them when they break in our world | 19:41 |
| mordred | reed: and I think the above seems reasonable | 19:41 |
| reed | cool | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | reed: anything else on this? | 19:42 |
| fungi | and this is not really an abnormal expectation. at a former employer, no new systems went into production until they were in deployment automation and documented such that anyone on the requisite support teams could step in and solve them when there was an issue | 19:43 |
| reed | ... I don't think so | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | fungi: that sounds so professional! | 19:43 |
| reed | jeblair, next topic for me | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | #topic Review proposal towards a better integration of gerrit and openstack people db (reed) | 19:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review proposal towards a better integration of gerrit and openstack people db (reed) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:43 | |
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| reed | didn't we talk about this last week already? | 19:44 |
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| anteaya | yes | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | sorry, wasn't here; next topic again? | 19:44 |
| anteaya | did we cover everything you needed last week? | 19:44 |
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| reed | anteaya, I think so, I'm good so far | 19:44 |
| jeblair | #topic Request for comments on the horizon split plan (rdopiera) | 19:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Request for comments on the horizon split plan (rdopiera) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:44 | |
| anteaya | great, thanks | 19:45 |
| reed | there is a message to the mlist too | 19:45 |
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| anteaya | this was a left over from last week as well | 19:45 |
| anteaya | din't know if we were finished here or not | 19:45 |
| anteaya | he isn't in channel | 19:45 |
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| anteaya | looks like a fresher topic is in order | 19:46 |
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| anteaya | did we lose jim? | 19:46 |
| jeblair | #topic Review Third Party wiki templates - seed pages (anteaya) | 19:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Third Party wiki templates - seed pages (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:47 | |
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| anteaya | there we go | 19:47 |
| jeblair | this meeting is speeding up! | 19:47 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems/IBMPowerKVMCI | 19:47 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems/OpenStack-Neutron | 19:47 |
| anteaya | we looked at these last week | 19:47 |
| anteaya | reed wanted a more prominent title, I don't know how to do that | 19:47 |
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| anteaya | are we ready to go live with these? | 19:48 |
| anteaya | folks are keen to use them | 19:48 |
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| reed | I support this sort of standardization wholeheartedly | 19:48 |
| anteaya | any reason to not start using them? | 19:48 |
| krtaylor | anteaya, I'd like to change the wording a bit on ours, but generally, yes | 19:48 |
| anteaya | reed: thanks | 19:48 |
| clarkb | I think we can go ahead with what we have and work on the templates as we go | 19:48 |
| clarkb | as far as format for larger title goes | 19:48 |
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| anteaya | krtaylor: right but the template | 19:48 |
| krtaylor | yes | 19:49 |
| anteaya | great thanks | 19:49 |
| anteaya | I'm good to move on | 19:49 |
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| reed | i only wish mediawiki had a better UI... one day, it'll get there :) | 19:49 |
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| fungi | yeah, it looks like an encyclopedia or something | 19:50 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | I like how template looks like // https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems/IBMPowerKVMCI | 19:50 |
| anteaya | SergeyLukjanov: thanks | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: do we have docs prepared telling people how to fill these out, etc? | 19:51 |
| jeblair | (and that they should fill them out)? | 19:51 |
| anteaya | no | 19:51 |
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| anteaya | I was going to start small and get some good examples | 19:51 |
| anteaya | and then work on a docs page | 19:51 |
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| anteaya | where should the doc page be, anyplace special? | 19:51 |
| fungi | next order of business is probably to submit a change for review to update third-party.rst | 19:51 |
| anteaya | or just somewhere on the wiki? | 19:51 |
| reed | on the wiki ? | 19:51 |
| anteaya | fungi: that sounds good | 19:52 |
| jeblair | yeah, what fungi said | 19:52 |
| anteaya | kk | 19:52 |
| anteaya | my next topic is a quick one | 19:52 |
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| jeblair | then once that's there, we can write an email letting people know about the changes and link to it | 19:52 |
| fungi | whether the bulk of the documentation goes onto the wiki with just a stub paragraph and link in that file or whether it's all documented in that file, i don't really have a preference | 19:52 |
| anteaya | kk | 19:52 |
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| anteaya | I'll offer something and get some feedback | 19:52 |
| jeblair | i think the bulk should be in third-party.rst | 19:53 |
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| anteaya | and expand the example pages | 19:53 |
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| anteaya | I can do that | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | #topic Formatting Automated Gerrit Account Names (anteaya) | 19:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Formatting Automated Gerrit Account Names (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:54 | |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems/OpenStack-Neutron | 19:54 |
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| anteaya | so we agreed to some formatting last week | 19:54 |
| anteaya | my question is where should I publish it? | 19:54 |
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| anteaya | thirdparty.rst? | 19:54 |
| jeblair | anteaya: do you mean https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/automated-gerrit-account-naming-format ? | 19:54 |
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| anteaya | yes | 19:54 |
| anteaya | that was the link | 19:55 |
| clarkb | anteaya: or even on the wiki. I think because so much data goes into the wiki it may be good to make thirdparty.rst more of a stub into the wiki | 19:55 |
| anteaya | sorry about that | 19:55 |
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| clarkb | but liek fungi said I think either way will work | 19:55 |
| anteaya | lines 11-16 is what I would like to document | 19:55 |
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| anteaya | actually I need to get infra-manual going | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: i'm strongly in favor of rst; our requirements are not subject to anyone editing them, they are subject to review | 19:55 |
| anteaya | and would like to have a third party section in infra-manual | 19:55 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: good point | 19:55 |
| anteaya | I can get behind that | 19:56 |
| jeblair | anteaya: yeah, infra-manual could work too | 19:56 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:56 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: i think lines 11-16 are good for rst docs | 19:56 |
| mordred | infra-manual++ | 19:56 |
| anteaya | thirdparty.rst for now and infra-manual for expansion | 19:56 |
| anteaya | jeblair: thanks | 19:56 |
| anteaya | I'm done | 19:56 |
| fungi | i agree that something going through gerrit gets votes and an approval/audit trail, so good thing for policy document | 19:56 |
| fungi | s | 19:56 |
| anteaya | agreed | 19:56 |
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| clarkb | I have two things I wanted to put on peoples radars that don't really need a topic. 1) we need to restart zuul to pick up a bugfix around the swift stuff and 2) elasticsearch seems to be hving trouble with its rax volumes | 19:58 |
| jeblair | #topic Open Discussion | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:58 | |
| anteaya | ianw had an item | 19:58 |
| clarkb | if we bump our volume quota we can shift to ssd volumes and hopefully make ES happy | 19:58 |
| anteaya | f20 | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: there was no name and we're out of time for that i think | 19:58 |
| anteaya | oh I did add him | 19:58 |
| clarkb | but we can't do that without downtime with our current volume quota | 19:58 |
| anteaya | sorry ianw | 19:58 |
| anteaya | but I added him after the meeting started | 19:59 |
| fungi | reminder: i'm not really around at the moment... but this place gets furniture and an internet connection tomorrow, so i should be catching up again late in the week | 19:59 |
| jeblair | clarkb: if we can't get in touch with pvo, we should ask phschwartz | 19:59 |
| anteaya | fungi: glad to have you back once you are back | 19:59 |
| jeblair | also, i've started a new job at HP | 19:59 |
| anteaya | fungi: hope things are going smoothly so far | 19:59 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ya he pointed at pvo but we can keep asking around :) | 19:59 |
| anteaya | jeblair: yay! | 19:59 |
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| wenlock_ | jeblair grats! welcome | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | it's an architectural role relating to HP's use of our development tools/systems/methodologies | 20:00 |
| anteaya | awesome | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | my interaction with openstack will be substantially similar, so no huge changes there | 20:00 |
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| jeblair | and i think we're out of time | 20:01 |
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| zaro | good to hear! | 20:01 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "launchpad openid is down. login to openstack services will fail until launchpad openid is happy again" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 17 20:01:12 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-06-17-19.01.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-06-17-19.01.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-06-17-19.01.log.html | 20:01 |
| ttx | interesting topic | 20:01 |
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| ttx | jeblair: looks like that one needs to be cleared now :) | 20:01 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:01 |
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| anteaya | o/ | 20:01 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:01 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 20:01 |
| mikal | Hi | 20:01 |
| markmc | hey | 20:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | russellb, annegentle, mordred, vishy, markmcclain, jeblair, sdague : around ? | 20:02 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:02 |
| annegentle | o/ | 20:02 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:02 |
| jeblair | ttx: 1 sec for topic? | 20:02 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:02 |
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| zehicle | o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | jeblair: go for it | 20:02 |
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| *** ChanServ changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:03 | |
| jeblair | ttx: all clear thx | 20:03 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 17 20:03:13 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:03 |
| ttx | Agenda for today: | 20:03 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:03 |
| anteaya | jgriffith: ping | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
| ttx | NB: Agenda was a bit too busy so I pushed back Glance gap coverage plan to next week, with markwash's blessing | 20:03 |
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| ttx | #topic Use of the word "certified" | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Use of the word "certified" (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:04 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-June/036933.html | 20:04 |
| * zehicle making some popcorn for this one | 20:04 | |
| ttx | I think that thread reached conclusion that using "tested" or "CI tested" would be more accurate. | 20:04 |
| anteaya | that was my take on it as well | 20:04 |
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| ttx | anteaya: Not sure we need to discuss that any further, unless a specific outcome is desired and not obtained yet ? | 20:04 |
| anteaya | well just to support cinder in their deprecation of using the word | 20:04 |
| anteaya | if they require that | 20:04 |
| anteaya | the mostly needed to ensure the topic got airtime on the ml, which it did | 20:05 |
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| ttx | jgriffith: your last post seems to agree to phase out "certified" in favor of some variation of "tested" | 20:05 |
| jgriffith | anteaya: there's only a handful of folks that cared, but they're willing to yield | 20:05 |
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| anteaya | jgriffith: hey | 20:05 |
| ttx | ok, so I don't think we have a problem left to solve | 20:05 |
| anteaya | no | 20:05 |
| jgriffith | ttx: nope | 20:05 |
| annegentle | agreed | 20:06 |
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| russellb | great, thanks jgriffith | 20:06 |
| markmc | agree | 20:06 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I'll play along | 20:06 |
| anteaya | jgriffith: did you need any support for transition? | 20:06 |
| markmc | nice consensus reaching thread :) | 20:06 |
| jgriffith | anteaya: nah | 20:06 |
| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:06 |
| jgriffith | thanks though | 20:06 |
| anteaya | k | 20:06 |
| anteaya | so I'm done on this one | 20:06 |
| ttx | #agreed Cinder will phase out use of term "certified" for some variation around "tested" that is not as heavily loaded | 20:06 |
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| ttx | next topic, then! | 20:06 |
| ttx | #topic Review j-1 progress on gap covering plans | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review j-1 progress on gap covering plans (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:06 | |
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| ttx | When we did the gap coverage plans we said we'd go back and check that everything goes as planned, after each milestone | 20:07 |
| ttx | So I used the 1:1 syncs today to get a picture of progress in gap coverage plans | 20:07 |
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| ttx | i'll report on behalf of al PTLs now | 20:07 |
| ttx | although those that are around should feel free to correct me | 20:08 |
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| ttx | * Ceilometer (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Ceilometer_Gap_Coverage) | 20:08 |
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| ttx | #info Ceilometer is on track, still targeting j2 for fully covering the gap | 20:08 |
| ttx | * Horizon (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Horizon_Gap_Coverage) | 20:08 |
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| mordred | o/ | 20:08 |
| ttx | #info Mostly on track. Horizon mission statement is late, but that should be a quick one | 20:08 |
| ttx | * Neutron (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Neutron_Gap_Coverage) | 20:08 |
| ttx | #info Neutron: Work on all gaps has started. Gap 4 is a bit late (was planned for j1), but it's also been determined to just be one API call. Overall, still on track. | 20:09 |
| ttx | markmcclain: feel free to comment on that one from your first-hand perspective | 20:09 |
| ttx | * Trove (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Trove_Gap_Coverage) | 20:09 |
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| ttx | #info Trove coverage plan is on track, work started on all items | 20:09 |
| ttx | More details available in the ptl_sync logs: | 20:09 |
| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2014/ptl_sync.2014-06-17-08.00.html | 20:10 |
| markmcclain | ttx: correct… in aggregate we're still on target just a few items that are ahead/behind schedule | 20:10 |
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| sdague | Neutron Gap 2 I remain concerned on, as we don't yet have neutron -> neutron upgrade, so n-net -> neutron probably is not possible in the next 5 weeks | 20:10 |
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| ttx | So overall I was pleased to see that most gaps were in progress | 20:10 |
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| markmcclain | sdague: I expect that finalizing gap0 should make the fix for 2 quick | 20:11 |
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| russellb | sdague: yeah, i was wondering how the upgrade procedure was coming ... hadn't seen anything | 20:11 |
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| russellb | n-net -> neutron in particular | 20:11 |
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| markmcclain | russellb: there is WIP code for n-net -> neutron | 20:12 |
| markmcclain | doesn't handle sec groups yet | 20:12 |
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| russellb | cool, good to hear. | 20:12 |
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| ttx | All the gap work seems to be priotized correctly, even if some work takes longer than hoped (as always) | 20:12 |
| ttx | +ri | 20:12 |
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| markmcclain | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100265 n-net ext | 20:13 |
| ttx | Other questions on that? | 20:13 |
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| ttx | I think juno-2 objectives will be a lot harder to meet | 20:13 |
| ttx | and will be the real test | 20:13 |
| sdague | agreed | 20:13 |
| jogo | a reliable open source default driver isn't on the neutron gap list? | 20:13 |
| sdague | good checkpoint though | 20:14 |
| markmcclain | ttx: +1 | 20:14 |
| ttx | because a lot of the gap work is being targeted at it | 20:14 |
| annegentle | ttx: for https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Horizon_Gap_Coverage#Gap_3:_Document_Gaps_between_Horizon_and_CLIs could David update with links to the wiki pages ongoing? | 20:14 |
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| markmcclain | jogo: the default driver is ML2 and we have several folks working to improve it | 20:14 |
| jogo | markmcclain: ack, just thought that would be on the gap coverage list | 20:14 |
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| ttx | annegentle: david-lyle is in vacation at the moment, so I didn't push too much on his substitutes | 20:14 |
| ttx | annegentle: we can certainly ask for more details when he is back (next week) | 20:15 |
| annegentle | got it | 20:15 |
| annegentle | thanks | 20:15 |
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| ttx | #topic Defcore update: Swift designated sections & capabilities score process | 20:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Defcore update: Swift designated sections & capabilities score process (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:16 | |
| ttx | zehicle: o/ | 20:16 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreLighthouse.F2F | 20:16 |
| zehicle | o/ | 20:16 |
| ttx | zehicle: floor is yours | 20:16 |
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| zehicle | thanks! | 20:16 |
| zehicle | a few topics to cover from our last DefCore meeting | 20:16 |
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| zehicle | will dig up link to minutes | 20:17 |
| ttx | zehicle: as an aside, I don't think mordred made progress on the scoring proposal, so if it's still needed, we might want to find another volunteer to drive that | 20:17 |
| notmyname | ..???.. | 20:17 |
| zehicle | items 1) timing, 2) designated sections for swift 3) process for core | 20:17 |
| * notmyname just saw "swift" mentioned | 20:17 | |
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| mordred | yeah - sorry, my schedule totally fell apart | 20:17 |
| ttx | notmyname: I confirm, it was mentioned. | 20:17 |
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| zehicle | we did a pass to complete the unscored items (object was the only one left) | 20:18 |
| zehicle | since we're there, we can do #2 first | 20:18 |
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| ttx | mordred: not blaming you, I couldn't have done it if I had it assigned to me either :) | 20:18 |
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| zehicle | our scores had 2 capabilities in swift as core and a few as close but not in | 20:18 |
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| zehicle | hmmm.... | 20:19 |
| markmc | ok, well we've lost our chair | 20:19 |
| anteaya | I'm listening | 20:19 |
| mikal | Sigh | 20:19 |
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| zehicle | turned out to be pretty easy to score - NOTE, there's still a question about IF the capabilities need to change | 20:19 |
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| zehicle | but that's ok for now | 20:19 |
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| markmcclain | did we lose our quorum too? | 20:20 |
| markmc | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/defcore-committee/2014-May/thread.html#173 <- some context | 20:20 |
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| anteaya | we are still logged | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | should we call role again or something? I can't tell who's still here | 20:20 |
| russellb | we're back! | 20:21 |
| ttx | ah. | 20:21 |
| ttx | ok, we are back | 20:21 |
| sdague | :) | 20:21 |
| annegentle | welcome back! | 20:21 |
| ttx | that was the shortest netsplit in history | 20:21 |
| zehicle | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreLighthouse.F2F | 20:21 |
| zehicle | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreLighthouse.F2F | 20:21 |
| markmc | <zehicle> turned out to be pretty easy to score - NOTE, there's still a question about IF the capabilities need to change | 20:21 |
| markmc | <-- sombrafam has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) | 20:21 |
| markmc | <zehicle> but that's ok for now | 20:21 |
| markmc | that's all you missed | 20:21 |
| zehicle | right now, the DefCore committee has the position that these capabilities SHOULD BE Core | 20:21 |
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| zehicle | however, there's a problem with in field implementations of designated sections if Swift is 100% designated | 20:22 |
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| dhellmann | zehicle: you mentioned 2 groups of capabilities, which do you mean? | 20:22 |
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| zehicle | dhellman_, must-pass (core) and the rest | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | ok | 20:22 |
| zehicle | in the rest, there are some that are clearly out and some are on the bubble | 20:22 |
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| zehicle | the other capabilities for Swift were "on the bubble" | 20:22 |
| markmc | #link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av62KoL8f9kAdFo4V1ZLUFM0OHlrRnFpQUkxSHJ5QWc&usp=drive_web#gid=6 | 20:23 |
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| * zehicle reminds everyone that this is subject to review | 20:23 | |
| dhellmann | I see objectstore-container and objectstore-object as scoring green | 20:23 |
| zehicle | we're happy to discuss scores, but we will make best effort to keep this moving | 20:23 |
| zehicle | dhellman_, yes, those did not chnage | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm just trying to make sure I understand what all the pronouns mean :-) | 20:23 |
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| zehicle | no worries, I want to be clear | 20:23 |
| ttx | zehicle: so what do you need from us? You still need clarification on those 0.5 scores in TC direction, right | 20:24 |
| zehicle | so we're asking the TC to move forward on designated sections for swift | 20:24 |
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| zehicle | BUT if you say 100% then we will have to re-evaluate the 2 core designations | 20:24 |
| mikal | I still need to ask the other projects for their designated sections as well, I lost my way on that last week | 20:24 |
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| * ttx would like to hear notmyname's opinion on it first | 20:25 | |
| zehicle | ttx, yes we are still asking TC to resolve the .5s | 20:25 |
| russellb | ttx: +1 | 20:25 |
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| mordred | ++ | 20:25 |
| zehicle | ttx, it's not blocking us since we did not think it would swing any capabilities into other sections | 20:25 |
| markmc | totally | 20:25 |
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| notmyname | umm..I'm missing a lot of context here. (and I have another meeting in 5 minutes) | 20:25 |
| zehicle | ttx, we were NOT trying to close the issue here. just bring it to the TC so you had the ball | 20:25 |
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| ttx | OK, I'll take the action to reach to notmyname when we both have more time | 20:26 |
| markmc | thanks ttx | 20:26 |
| zehicle | and understood DefCore would have to response if the answer if 100% | 20:26 |
| notmyname | what happened to the core capabilities list I sent to the defcore list? also, i've never said anything about 100% of Swift being "designated sections". in fact I've been very clear on the opposite, both in-person and from conference stages | 20:26 |
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| zehicle | I'm happy to be a resource for that discussion as needed | 20:26 |
| notmyname | also, Ihave no idea where a score of "83" comes from | 20:26 |
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| markmc | zehicle, what's this about? | 20:27 |
| markmc | ACTION > Rob to take to TC that if Swift has any designated sections then the DefCore committee will likely recommending omitting the "object-*" capabilities from core. | 20:27 |
| zehicle | notmyname, that needs further review & discussion w/ Troy | 20:27 |
| zehicle | yy | 20:27 |
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| zehicle | markmc, that's exactly this topic | 20:27 |
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| russellb | basically, you need the designated sections opinion from our side on swift | 20:27 |
| russellb | and then we go from there | 20:27 |
| zehicle | russellb, yes. exactly | 20:28 |
| russellb | and to get that, ttx will sync with notmyname later | 20:28 |
| markmc | if the TC says swift has designated sections, the defcore committee will remove all swift capabilities from core? | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | It sounds like defcore is saying if we call any of swift designated, they're just going to remove the capabilities. Is that right, or am I reading too much into this? | 20:28 |
| ttx | zehicle: so if swift is not 100% designated, it's out of core capabilities ? Bit confursed too | 20:28 |
| zehicle | markmc, depends on how the opinion comes out | 20:28 |
| markmc | zehicle, I don't understand the logic behind it | 20:28 |
| zehicle | ttx, the opposite | 20:28 |
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| ttx | "if Swift has any designated sections then the DefCore committee will likely recommending omitting the "object-*" capabilities from core" | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | I think I'd like to see some of that discussion written up then, because we shouldn't be making technical decisions about what we designate as core to change the capabilities list. That' *EXACTLY* why we split those 2 decisions in the first place. | 20:29 |
| zehicle | in DefCore, concerns were raise that if Swift has core capabilities AND is 100% designated then it creates issues for implmentations | 20:29 |
| sdague | zehicle: I'm sufficiently confused. Can you restate the thing that needs a decision? | 20:29 |
| markmc | "defcore committee thinks swift should capabilities should not be required in openstack clouds" | 20:29 |
| russellb | zehicle: but nobody has said 100% | 20:29 |
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| markmc | "if the TC thinks swift code should be required, ..." | 20:29 |
| russellb | and notmyname just said that's not his opinion either | 20:29 |
| * markmc still lost | 20:29 | |
| zehicle | We do think Swift capablities are required | 20:29 |
| markmc | (to be clear - the quotes are me trying to paraphrase) | 20:29 |
| zehicle | that's why 2 of them are in the core list | 20:29 |
| mordred | right. I think we're talking about a hypotehtical which we've already disproven | 20:29 |
| russellb | mordred: yes. | 20:29 |
| markmc | zehicle, then why say you'll remove them if there are designated sections? | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | notmyname: do you have anything written about designated sections for swift? | 20:29 |
| zehicle | BUT we have a challenge if the code is 100% designated | 20:30 |
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| mordred | let's stop talking about that | 20:30 |
| russellb | zehicle: but it's not | 20:30 |
| mordred | it's a non issue | 20:30 |
| mordred | so let's move on | 20:30 |
| ttx | zehicle: ok | 20:30 |
| zehicle | yes, I'm ok to move on. | 20:30 |
| notmyname | dhellmann: I emailed a rough draft to defcore I think. zehicle has a copy of what I sent | 20:30 |
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| dhellmann | notmyname: ok, thanks, I'll look at the list archives | 20:30 |
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| russellb | notmyname: thanks | 20:30 |
| * mordred waves at notmyname | 20:30 | |
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| ttx | #action ttx to reach to notmyname to get proposed designated sections | 20:31 |
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| * zehicle knows that this is a difficult topic. trying to break it into smaller pieces for discussion | 20:31 | |
| ttx | zehicle: you still that that 0.5 scoring clarified, right ? | 20:31 |
| markmc | the list notmyname sent was capabilities, not designated sections | 20:31 |
| markmc | (to be clear) | 20:31 |
| zehicle | yes, that will help | 20:31 |
| zehicle | we're trying to have community input meetings last week of June | 20:31 |
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| dhellmann | markmc: ok, so it sounds like we still need a discussion about designated sections | 20:31 |
| ttx | TC: do we have a new volunteer to propose a scoring to the governance repo for us to iterate on ? | 20:31 |
| zehicle | Matrix input from Community (2 meetings 25 & 26 of June) | 20:32 |
| markmc | dhellman, right | 20:32 |
| zehicle | it would be good to have all 0 or 1 before those meetings | 20:32 |
| zehicle | and we'll use that as the basis for Icehouse scoring | 20:32 |
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| ttx | ok, so we really need a volunteer now :) | 20:32 |
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| markmc | "DefCore agrees that the TC is the deciding body for designated sections." | 20:33 |
| * markmc thinks that's just plain wrong | 20:33 | |
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| markmc | it's a TM policy issue, the board is the deciding body | 20:33 |
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| mordred | markmc: I disagree | 20:33 |
| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:33 |
| annegentle | heh | 20:33 |
| mordred | the board is the deciding body for the TM issues | 20:33 |
| markmc | and it is a TM issue | 20:33 |
| mordred | I do NOT want the board deciding designated sections | 20:33 |
| ttx | markmc: I think we propose designated sections (actually, we make sure PTLs propose them) | 20:33 |
| mordred | because that's a code org issue | 20:33 |
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| zehicle | markmc, happy to discuss more but that position is a surprise given pass dialogs | 20:34 |
| ttx | then the BoD does what it wants with them | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | "deciding body" seems strong, but I thought they were asking us to help figure out what parts of the code shouldn't be swapped out | 20:34 |
| mordred | I don't want eileen, for instance, making decisions on which chunks of code do anything | 20:34 |
| markmc | mordred, the choice of which ones required is the TM policy issue | 20:34 |
| mikal | ttx: that's a thing I am meant to be working on but haven't progresses as much as I should | 20:34 |
| mikal | I'm drafting something for the TC to take to PTLs requesting designated sections | 20:34 |
| markmc | mordred, what the list of potential required sections are can be something the TC produces | 20:34 |
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| mordred | markmc: the choice of technical communities intent for how the code works and is used is us | 20:34 |
| ttx | mikal: think you can have a try at it ? | 20:34 |
| mikal | ttx: I have a draft, its lacking some detail though | 20:34 |
| mikal | I can upload a WIP now if you want me to | 20:34 |
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| ttx | markmc: the BoD still very much has control over what it does with designated sections and whether it applies them to trademark rules | 20:35 |
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| markmc | dhellman, right | 20:35 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:35 |
| zehicle | I don't think the Board is the right agency to pick code sections, unless you want us to say 0% (Apache style) | 20:35 |
| ttx | so we are the deciding body on a technical input | 20:35 |
| markmc | ok, we're just mixed up on terminology | 20:35 |
| mordred | I think ttx sums up my view | 20:35 |
| markmc | AIUI "designated" means "required" | 20:35 |
| ttx | which they use or not use in trademark rules | 20:35 |
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| zehicle | Board does pick required capabilities as defined by tests | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | yeah, is "deciding body" some magical legalese, or does it just mean "the TC is going to tell us" | 20:35 |
| markmc | you guys are saying "designated" is "sections the board can choose to require" | 20:35 |
| mordred | dhellmann: none of these words ACTUALLY have meaning - just the ones we've invented | 20:36 |
| ttx | dhellman_: my understanding is 'the TC will tell us" | 20:36 |
| zehicle | We're trying to document that at the bottom of that page, the bylaws changes "in plain english" section | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | markmc: right, the intersection of code (TC) and capabilties (board) | 20:36 |
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| zehicle | dhellman +1 | 20:36 |
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| dhellmann | mordred: no wonder we have so much trouble talking about this :-) | 20:36 |
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| mordred | the TC picks the sections. the board can use or not use that information to inform its choice of capabilities | 20:36 |
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| mordred | the sections are only an input into a decision matrix | 20:36 |
| mordred | so the sections ARE 100% us | 20:37 |
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| dhellmann | mordred: yes, except I am a little surprised to hear the thing about swift | 20:37 |
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| mordred | but their application towards trademark policy is the board | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | well, a *very* little surprised | 20:37 |
| markmc | right and the sections the board chooses are called "designated sections" | 20:37 |
| markmc | no the list the TC picks | 20:37 |
| mordred | no | 20:37 |
| markmc | not | 20:37 |
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| mikal | ttx: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100675/ is what I have so far | 20:37 |
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| mordred | the board does not pick sections | 20:37 |
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| mordred | the board picks capabilities | 20:37 |
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| mordred | sections are a way to help choose capabilities | 20:37 |
| zehicle | clearly, this has not reached the level of clarity I'd hoped. My appologies | 20:37 |
| markmc | so the board takes our list of designated sections, or throws it away | 20:37 |
| mordred | the board takes it | 20:38 |
| markmc | binary? no selective choosing from our list? | 20:38 |
| mordred | it is input | 20:38 |
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| mordred | to the list of capabilites | 20:38 |
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| markmc | it's totally separate from the list of capabilities! | 20:38 |
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| zehicle | mordred, yes but there's a nuance because we expect the capabilities to be defined by the projects | 20:38 |
| markmc | TM requirements are capabilities + designated sections | 20:38 |
| markmc | AIUI | 20:38 |
| ttx | mikal: that's designated sections -- I'm looking for a volunteer to push scoring proposals for the "Tc direction" column | 20:38 |
| zehicle | The board is really picking WHICH ones are core | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | markmc: if the board sees that a capability is defined by a section of code we're not designating, then it won't be a core capability. And vice versa. | 20:38 |
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| ttx | mikal: I think you have enough on your plate with that first one | 20:38 |
| mikal | ttx: ahhh, ok. We're talking about different things then | 20:39 |
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| mikal | ttx: agreed, I think the designated section thing shows I'm too busy at the moment | 20:39 |
| markmc | dhellman, oooh, I don't think so ... | 20:39 |
| mordred | ok. I'm three seconds from ragequitting my fourth thing of the day. the complexity of what we're working on to decide which things we make people can ignore is mind boggling | 20:39 |
| mordred | we make software | 20:39 |
| zehicle | dhellman_, if the code's not designated but the capability is core that's OK | 20:39 |
| markmc | dhellmann, AIUI capabilities can be required even if the code isn't a designated section | 20:39 |
| mordred | people shold be lining up at the door to use it | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | zehicle: that makes no sense at all | 20:39 |
| markmc | dhellmann, which I think is behind this statement about swift | 20:39 |
| mordred | and we should stop spending so much time working on giving them lists of stuff they can ignore | 20:39 |
| mordred | BUT | 20:39 |
| mordred | if we're going to do that | 20:39 |
| zehicle | it just means that the vendor can substitute | 20:40 |
| mordred | then the parts related to CODE should be from us | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | how can the board require a deployer to use code the technical community won't stand behind, or thinks should be swapped out with a driver? | 20:40 |
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| dhellmann | "an OpenStack cloud must do this thing we're not going to give you supported code to do"? that's odd. | 20:40 |
| mordred | dhellmann: the board isnt' looking to reuqire extra things. it's looking to let people use the openstack name even if they don't use stuff we like | 20:40 |
| markmc | it would be foolish to do so, but they are the final deciding body on trademark requirements | 20:40 |
| russellb | mordred: i certainly can relate to your sentiment about the complexity of all this ... | 20:40 |
| mordred | bceause there are people with vested interests in being allowed to do that | 20:40 |
| zehicle | I'm thinking a single topic meeting may be in order. I think the context of this is getting lost | 20:40 |
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| mordred | whereas all of us here actually just want people to use the lovely code we're writing them and are confused as to why people want to be able to delete some of it | 20:41 |
| zehicle | we specifically do NOT want the board adding extra stuff. | 20:41 |
| markmcclain | I'm still wondering why this is so hard… can we not split the question? | 20:41 |
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| markmc | mordred, totally agree on the rage, btw | 20:41 |
| ttx | let's concentrate on the inputs, we can discuss the machinery that will consume them at another meeting | 20:42 |
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| markmcclain | determine capabilities that have to exist and then decide on code that has to be used and what can be driver/plugin based? | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | ttx: +1 | 20:42 |
| devananda | ttx: +1 | 20:42 |
| mordred | I mean, if it weren't for the people who aren't participating technically but still wanting to buy their way into using the name, this would be VERY easy | 20:42 |
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| mordred | RAGE RAGE RAGE | 20:42 |
| ttx | so if there is no volunteer to propose a scoring, I'll take it | 20:42 |
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| ttx | yeepee | 20:42 |
| devananda | i've been trying to follow the confusion to see if I could help settle it ... but no. I think mordred has stated it in ways that match my understanding. | 20:42 |
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| markmc | ttx, you don't have to be the default volunteer :( | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | ttx: do we just need to turn those 0.5s in column G to 1 or 0? | 20:43 |
| ttx | markmc: well, someone has to do it | 20:43 |
| ttx | dhellman_: yes | 20:43 |
| ttx | and mind you, just propose something that we will iterate on review | 20:43 |
| ttx | It's not that much work | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | I'll do it | 20:43 |
| ttx | cool! | 20:44 |
| markmc | thanks dhellmann | 20:44 |
| ttx | thanks dhellmann | 20:44 |
| russellb | mordred: so, yes, we want you to use the code wrote, so 100%, moving on? :) | 20:44 |
| russellb | else it's not our software | 20:44 |
| ttx | #action dhellmann to pick up the scoring proposal for the "TC direction" column | 20:44 |
| russellb | that was easy | 20:44 |
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| ttx | ok, let's move on | 20:44 |
| annegentle | thanks dhellmann (and ttx for being willing) | 20:44 |
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| ttx | but we need to have that discussion again | 20:44 |
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| zehicle | my final item was that we're going to Gerrit to manage changes to the scores & capabilities going forward | 20:45 |
| ttx | As I expect we won't be happy with what will come out of the machine we are feeding the required inputs to | 20:45 |
| zehicle | I can hold that till next week | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | zehicle: do you have the link to the definitions of those capabilities handy? I'm sure I have it somewhere... | 20:45 |
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| ttx | zehicle: ack | 20:45 |
| ttx | OK, let's move on to the governance changes in review | 20:45 |
| zehicle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/CoreCriteria | 20:45 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/CoreCriteria | 20:46 |
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| zehicle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/DefCoreLexicon | 20:46 |
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| zehicle | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/CoreDefinition | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | zehicle: there was a json file somewhere with mappings to test names? | 20:46 |
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| * zehicle glad that our meeting notes are helpful | 20:46 | |
| zehicle | dhellmann, yes. in refstack github. It's about to change based on last meeting but I'll share the link | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | zehicle: thanks, an email is fine if you don't have it handy here | 20:47 |
| * anteaya hears lightening close, could lose power any moment | 20:47 | |
| ttx | ok moving on | 20:47 |
| ttx | #topic Adds a resolution addressing expected election behavior | 20:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adds a resolution addressing expected election behavior (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:47 | |
| zehicle | #link https://github.com/stackforge/refstack/tree/master/defcore/havana | 20:47 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/98675 | 20:47 |
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| ttx | There seems to be general agreement on expected behavior, which is good | 20:47 |
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| ttx | But two different approaches when it comes to enforcing that behavior | 20:48 |
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| ttx | One (the original proposal by anteaya) based on report and investigation of questionable behavior, with potential punishment in the end (institutional pressure) | 20:48 |
| ttx | One (recent counter-thread by eglynn) based on assuming voters will punish questionable behavior once we clearly set what is acceptable and what is not (reputational pressure) | 20:48 |
| ttx | As a sidenote, I don't think we (as the TC) can wield the threat of removing Foundation membership (and/or ability to vote or be elected) | 20:48 |
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| * russellb likes the eglynn approach | 20:48 | |
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| russellb | set expectations, and call people out | 20:48 |
| ttx | Bylaws say that individual membership may be terminated for violation of the community Code of Conduct (Secretary+Executive Director decision, or Board of Directors asking then to) | 20:48 |
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| ttx | It may be within the board's power to pass a decision to exclude someone, but clearly it's not under our own power | 20:49 |
| ttx | So we (as the TC) can't threaten to remove Foundation membership, we can at best report what we think is a violation of the CoC to the Board | 20:49 |
| sdague | yeh, I'm honestly more into eglynn's idea. I think shame is pretty powerful, especially if people have to affirm a thing. | 20:49 |
| ttx | An institutional pressure that relies on an indirect threat may be less efficient than a reputational pressure | 20:49 |
| jeblair | ttx: so with that in mind, i think that anteaya's approach is the better one | 20:49 |
| markmc | I think I saw something about bringing miscreants to the ED for punishment | 20:49 |
| * anteaya notes Rob Ford is due back on the job after leaving rehab | 20:49 | |
| mikal | markmc: that's the most recent draft | 20:49 |
| markmc | which would make me sad - we don't need the Foundation staff to enforce our culture | 20:49 |
| ttx | markmc: by the way, who is the secretary? | 20:50 |
| jeblair | anteaya's proposal handles establishing the expected behavior and communicating it to people | 20:50 |
| markmc | ttx, good question | 20:50 |
| markmcclain | my only concern about using reputation for pressure is that we still have to have some kind of structure | 20:50 |
| jeblair | i believe that is the core thing we need to do | 20:50 |
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| ttx | (more bylaws fun, every time I read it I learn something new) | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I'm not sure I like the idea that the TC completely abdicates responsibility for its elections to the foundation staff | 20:50 |
| jeblair | whereas eglynn's proposal actually seeds to have a lot red tape | 20:50 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: i don't think the proposal is to abdicate -- | 20:51 |
| jeblair | i think the issue is that when we get into things like "code of conduct violations" that's the purveiew of the foundation | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: the current draft no longer mentions the TC being involved in abuse reporting | 20:51 |
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| jeblair | because it's the foundation's code of conduct | 20:51 |
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| dhellmann | I do agree that the foundation should enforce its code of conduct | 20:51 |
| markmcclain | well don't all members of the foundation have the right to refer a code of conduct violation to foundation staff? | 20:51 |
| jeblair | cool, and its coc says "respect the election process" | 20:51 |
| dhellmann | I just think the TC should be aware of issues, and I would like to see some option for making them public. | 20:52 |
| jeblair | markmcclain: yep | 20:52 |
| annegentle | yes I think anyone should be able to report problematic behavior | 20:52 |
| ttx | So it seems we need to have a longer discussion on that subject. My suggestion is... each party should refine its proposal using a gerrit review | 20:52 |
| markmcclain | so the question is lets say that someone violates the code the conduct | 20:52 |
| markmcclain | should we as the TC assert that we have the right to re-run an election? | 20:52 |
| ttx | and we'll compare the merits of both proposals (once complete) at another meeting | 20:52 |
| eglynn | two separate codes of conduct BTW ... community: http://www.openstack.org/legal/community-code-of-conduct and foundation: http://www.openstack.org/legal/code-of-conduct | 20:52 |
| jeblair | fundamentally, i think the issue is that we need to state expectations and communicate them. | 20:53 |
| ttx | eglynn: one is for foundation officers | 20:53 |
| ttx | the other for foundation members | 20:53 |
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| markmcclain | jeblair: +1 to expectations | 20:53 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair: +1 | 20:53 |
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| russellb | re-running election is a good question | 20:53 |
| ttx | I think everyone agrees on acceptable behavior | 20:53 |
| markmcclain | it is just that the breakdown is that we don't have any procedures for when someone violates those expectations | 20:53 |
| ttx | nobody questioned that first part of anteaya's draft | 20:53 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: true | 20:54 |
| ttx | I still would like the alternate view to crystallize into its own proposal (rather than trying to turn anteaya's proposal into theirs | 20:54 |
| jeblair | ttx: cool, so i think we can refine the second part, and it sounds like it's getting pretty miniminal | 20:54 |
| markmc | markmcclain, do you feel the issues in the previous election were bad enough to warrant formal procedures to redress? | 20:54 |
| ttx | and then compare the two when they are deemed ready | 20:54 |
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| markmc | markmcclain, serious question | 20:54 |
| sdague | so everyone here does. But at the same time I don't think anyone here would have violated that spirit anyway. I guess the question is do we feel those are shared values in the community already? | 20:55 |
| anteaya | I would have liked to have been allowed to investigate them | 20:55 |
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| markmcclain | markmc: in some respects yes, but it's hard to formally address anything since we didn't have any written policy | 20:55 |
| jeblair | i just want one that solves the communication problem without establishing a huge amount of extra red tape (committees or required email footers) | 20:55 |
| zaneb | I thought anteaya's draft was pretty good right up to the last bit about breaching the ideals being equivalent to breaching the code of conduct | 20:55 |
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| anteaya | I wasn't, I had no report filed | 20:55 |
| zaneb | 'we have these ideals' <- good | 20:55 |
| jeblair | i think it's ultimately up to the foundation to decide whether the CoC has been violated | 20:55 |
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| zaneb | 'you really don't want to breach the foundation's CoC' <- good | 20:55 |
| markmcclain | jeblair: +1 | 20:55 |
| jeblair | so our proposals should not try to overstep that | 20:56 |
| ttx | jeblair: it is yes | 20:56 |
| anteaya | I was told that we needed a process for someone to be willing to file a report | 20:56 |
| zaneb | ideals == CoC <- dangerous | 20:56 |
| anteaya | I just need to ensure we have what is required for people to file | 20:56 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: i think we should leave that up to the foundation | 20:56 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: if there is feedback that the coc is unclear on reporting instructions | 20:57 |
| jeblair | anteaya: we should ask them to fix that | 20:57 |
| ttx | OK, I think we need to let that overflow to another meeting. Please each party refine your proposals, but separately | 20:57 |
| anteaya | I can agree with that | 20:57 |
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| sdague | do we have a person in the foundation that we think is willing to take this up. | 20:57 |
| devananda | it sounds like the question is: do we need a formal process for redress? or just better communication of expectations while allowing the commmunity to self-correct? | 20:57 |
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| ttx | and we can continue discussing it when we ahve two proposals to choose from | 20:57 |
| anteaya | I talked with Jonathan today | 20:57 |
| zehicle | zaneb, there is a foundation ombudsperson (right now it's Jonathan B) | 20:57 |
| eglynn | ttx: fair enough, will do | 20:57 |
| anteaya | I left a comment in my patch | 20:57 |
| sdague | I get uncomfortable with "that's the foundations responsibility" without knowing they think it is as well | 20:57 |
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| anteaya | sdague: me too | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | sdague: +1 | 20:58 |
| devananda | ttx: +1 for gerrit reviews for both | 20:58 |
| ttx | OK, moving on quickly | 20:58 |
| ttx | #topic Add translation support requirement | 20:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add translation support requirement (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:58 | |
| zehicle | devananda, the board also has this in process via the transparency committee (just so people know there's a Board action related to this discussion) | 20:58 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/97872 | 20:58 |
| ttx | I think two good points were raised -- scope of translation and absence of testing | 20:58 |
| markmc | also think about a potential future where we don't all trust the foundation so much | 20:58 |
| ttx | Which make this a bit... early | 20:58 |
| markmc | could happen | 20:58 |
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| ttx | I agree with markmc that deployer-facing messages may be considered out of policy scope | 20:58 |
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| ttx | I agree with sdague that without testing, it will (as it has in the past) stopped working without anyone knowing | 20:59 |
| ttx | We generally discover how broken it is post-release, which is an embarassment. | 20:59 |
| devananda | ttx: i recall a discussion last year as to whether or not we should translate certain strings | 20:59 |
| ttx | right | 20:59 |
| devananda | ttx: because of difficulty in gogole searching to find help | 20:59 |
| devananda | i'd like tos ee that clarified before we make any policy on it | 20:59 |
| devananda | maybe it was and I missed it | 20:59 |
| ttx | we still ahven't a good story there, so personally I think this requirement is a bit early | 20:59 |
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| dhellmann | the whether or not to do it question was settled by the translation team who is doing the work, and their users, and I am happy to leave it in their hands | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | (some) users want translated log files and the tools now support it | 21:00 |
| ttx | ok, let's continue the discussion on the review :) | 21:00 |
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| ttx | #topic Modify Images mission to fit Artifact Repository | 21:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Modify Images mission to fit Artifact Repository (Meeting topic: tc)" | 21:00 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/98002 | 21:00 |
| ttx | Still needs some work, so I'll pass | 21:00 |
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| ttx | we can discuss it next week | 21:00 |
| markmc | dhellmann, yeah I couldn't find the translations team decision on that | 21:00 |
| ttx | #topic Housekeeping items | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Housekeeping items (Meeting topic: tc)" | 21:01 | |
| ttx | * Adds openstack/training-guides repo to Documentation program (https://review.openstack.org/99408) | 21:01 |
| ttx | * Adds the openstack/security-guide repo to the Documentation program (https://review.openstack.org/99171) | 21:01 |
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| ttx | Both will be approved after the meeting unless someone -1s | 21:01 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:01 |
| annegentle | ttx: great! | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 21:01 | |
| ttx | and we are out of time | 21:01 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 21:01 |
| russellb | just a quick thanks to those that attend weekly from time zones where this isn't a good time | 21:01 |
| russellb | thanks! | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 17 21:02:04 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-06-17-20.03.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-06-17-20.03.txt | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-06-17-20.03.log.html | 21:02 |
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| markmcclain | russellb: ++ | 21:02 |
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| mikal | Does that mean I can go back to bed now? | 21:02 |
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| dolphm | mikal: no | 21:02 |
| eglynn | mikal: nope, more torture for you! :) | 21:02 |
| mikal | Dammit | 21:02 |
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| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, eglynn, markwash, jgriffith, mikal, zaneb, david-lyle, kmestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: around ? | 21:03 |
| jogo | zehicle: I have a defcore question for you, can we chat in #openstack-dev | 21:03 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:03 |
| ttx | mikal: should be quick | 21:03 |
| dolphm | o/ | 21:03 |
| notmyname | here | 21:03 |
| zaneb | o/ | 21:03 |
| * lcheng for david-lyle | 21:03 | |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Jun 17 21:03:37 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:03 |
| markwash | o/ | 21:03 |
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| ttx | lcheng: o/ | 21:03 |
| ttx | Agenda for today is available at: | 21:03 |
| mestery | o/ | 21:03 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:03 |
| devananda | o/ | 21:03 |
| ttx | No specific topic, so it should be REALLY quick. | 21:04 |
| ttx | #topic News from the 1:1 sync points | 21:04 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "News from the 1:1 sync points (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:04 | |
| ttx | See log at: | 21:04 |
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| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2014/ptl_sync.2014-06-17-08.00.html | 21:04 |
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| * eglynn starts stopwatch ;) | 21:04 | |
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| ttx | #topic Other program news | 21:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other program news (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:04 | |
| ttx | Infra, QA, Docs... anything you'd like to mention ? | 21:05 |
| ttx | jeblair, mtreinish, annegentle ^ | 21:05 |
| annegentle | We had a webinar today for Docs/Images/Identity | 21:05 |
| annegentle | recording will be posted -- contains our plans for Juno | 21:05 |
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| annegentle | keep an eye out for more PTL webinars to come | 21:06 |
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| * SergeyLukjanov here | 21:06 | |
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| eglynn | annegentle: FYI there's been some re-jiggering of the webinar schedule | 21:06 |
| mikal | Yeah, some of that is my fault | 21:06 |
| eglynn | annegentle: ... to consolidate the sessions into a smaller number | 21:06 |
| mikal | I declined to do one at 3am | 21:06 |
| annegentle | way to go mikal :) | 21:06 |
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| eglynn | mikal: ... sock it to the Man! ;) | 21:07 |
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| dhellmann | oslo plans to release alpha versions of stevedore, oslotest, oslo.config, and oslosphinx next week. I'll email the ML with more formal release notes, but I wanted to give you a heads-up. | 21:07 |
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| eglynn | dhellmann: cool | 21:08 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:08 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:08 | |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:09 |
| mikal | markwash: you around? | 21:09 |
| markwash | hi here | 21:09 |
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| mikal | I'm tracking a bug in glanceclient which is dumping a lot of tracebacks to the n-cpu log in tempest runs | 21:09 |
| mikal | Its not breaking anything, but its annoying | 21:09 |
| mikal | https://bugs.launchpad.net/glance/+bug/1320655 | 21:09 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1320655 in nova "UnicodeDecodeError in the nova gate logs" [Low,Confirmed] | 21:09 |
| mikal | http://logstash.openstack.org/#eyJzZWFyY2giOiJtZXNzYWdlOiBcIlVuaWNvZGVEZWNvZGVFcnJvclwiIiwiZmllbGRzIjpbXSwib2Zmc2V0IjowLCJ0aW1lZnJhbWUiOiI2MDQ4MDAiLCJncmFwaG1vZGUiOiJjb3VudCIsInRpbWUiOnsidXNlcl9pbnRlcnZhbCI6MH0sInN0YW1wIjoxNDAwNDI3ODM3NzE0LCJtb2RlIjoiIiwiYW5hbHl6ZV9maWVsZCI6IiJ9 | 21:09 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, zzz... | 21:09 |
| mikal | log_curl_request et al in common/http.py try to log unicode strings | 21:10 |
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| mikal | Which cause a traceback | 21:10 |
| devananda | not on the agenda, but is it worth discussing oslo.db and the oslo-incubator db migration test code a bit? | 21:10 |
| dolphm | just a heads up - we've been talking about getting auth_token out of keystoneclient and into it's own repo so it can be packaged separately, and keystoneclient can shed those service-oriented deps. that's likely happening soon, but shouldn't affect much beyond default pipeline ini's | 21:10 |
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| ttx | devananda: I guess you can, but without being on the agenda you might not get the right people | 21:10 |
| markwash | mikal: ah thanks for the heads up | 21:10 |
| ttx | #info keystone been talking about getting auth_token out of keystoneclient and into it's own repo so it can be packaged separately, and keystoneclient can shed those service-oriented deps. that's likely happening soon, but shouldn't affect much beyond default pipeline ini's | 21:11 |
| SergeyLukjanov | dolphm, oh, thanks | 21:11 |
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| eglynn | dolphm: can I add you as reviewer to a ceiloclient patch around keystone v3 usage? | 21:11 |
| mikal | markwash: commenting out the LOG.debug lines "fixes" the tracebacks, but makes those logging methods useless | 21:11 |
| mikal | i.e. we need to think harder than that | 21:11 |
| dolphm | eglynn: of course, but it might be more useful to bring it to a https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 21:11 |
| eglynn | dolphm: ... seems to be an unusual amount of leakage of keystone-specific concerns | 21:11 |
| devananda | jogo and i found some bugs in those in the last two weeks. patches are pending, but folks who are using db migration tests from oslo-incubator may have some race conditions and/or be seeing PASS when certain tests were actually skipped | 21:11 |
| dolphm | eglynn: i agree. | 21:11 |
| eglynn | dolphm: yep, will do thanks! | 21:11 |
| dolphm | eglynn: in general, not just with your patch | 21:12 |
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| dhellmann | devananda: could you add links to those to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Oslo so we can discuss in the oslo meeting? | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | devananda: the reviews, that is | 21:12 |
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| markwash | mikal: i've added python-glanceclient to the affected projects and added your triage-y comment to the bug | 21:13 |
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| markwash | I'll also add it to the agenda for this thurday to see if I can get somebody assigned | 21:13 |
| devananda | dhellmann: ack | 21:13 |
| mikal | Thanks | 21:13 |
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| mikal | markwash: I might drop nova from the project list there then given I don't think there's anything for us to do now | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | devananda: there's a "review priorities" section of the agenda that would be a good place | 21:13 |
| markwash | mikal: makes sense to me | 21:14 |
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| sdague | as a general comment for open discussion, I wanted to thank everyone that dug in on getting the failure rates back under control in the gate. We're actually about as good as we've ever been right now. | 21:14 |
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| sdague | http://jogo.github.io/gate/ | 21:14 |
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| dolphm | sdague: +++ | 21:16 |
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| ttx | sdague: +1 | 21:16 |
| mestery | sdague: +1 | 21:16 |
| devananda | sdague: ++ | 21:17 |
| dolphm | i approved something like 10-15 patches on saturday, and all but one landed on the first try | 21:17 |
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| ttx | last week was actually the busiest from integrated gate standpoint since mid-march | 21:17 |
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| eglynn | sdague: and thanks to you guys, we still have some ceilo roughness to smoothen out | 21:17 |
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| eglynn | sdague: ... which we will do | 21:18 |
| sdague | eglynn: awesome :) | 21:18 |
| SergeyLukjanov | there were tons of ninja merges last two weeks | 21:18 |
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| ttx | ok, any other unscheduled cross-project topic to discuss ? | 21:18 |
| sdague | yeh, but the throughput is definitely back up now - https://github.com/openstack/openstack/graphs/commit-activity gives you a good feel for that | 21:18 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | sdague, yeah | 21:19 |
| dolphm | ttx: on that note... gate load over the last 52 weeks: http://graphite.openstack.org/render/?from=-52weeks&width=1920&height=160&margin=0&hideLegend=true&hideAxes=false&hideGrid=true&target=color(stats.gauges.zuul.pipeline.gate.current_changes,%20%27000000%27)&bgcolor=ffffff&1403039852664 | 21:19 |
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| eglynn | BTW surfacing these data via dashboards is really useful :) | 21:20 |
| ttx | dolphm: that's gate depth right | 21:20 |
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| dolphm | ttx: yes | 21:20 |
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| ttx | dolphm: looks like Mordor panorama | 21:21 |
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| ttx | http://www.thelandofshadow.com/visions-of-mordor/ | 21:21 |
| ttx | on this good note | 21:21 |
| ttx | let's close this | 21:22 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:22 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Jun 17 21:22:30 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:22 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-06-17-21.03.html | 21:22 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-06-17-21.03.txt | 21:22 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-06-17-21.03.log.html | 21:22 |
| ttx | Thansk everyone! | 21:22 |
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| mestery | Thanks ttx! | 21:22 |
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| eglynn | 'night folks! | 21:22 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, thx! | 21:22 |
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| dolphm | mikal: happy sleep time | 21:23 |
| mikal | Laters! | 21:23 |
| mikal | No, school run now | 21:23 |
| ttx | what sleep? He just got up | 21:23 |
| mikal | It being 7:23 am and all | 21:23 |
| ttx | dolphm: it's time for ME to sleep | 21:23 |
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| dolphm | sleep time for everyone! | 21:24 |
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| markwash | dolphm: +1 | 21:24 |
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