Tuesday, 2014-07-29

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yamahata_#startmeeting servicevm-device-manager05:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 29 05:01:35 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yamahata_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.05:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.05:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)"05:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'servicevm_device_manager'05:01
yamahata_Today Bob doesn't attend05:02
yamahata_Do we have s3wong?05:02
natarajkyamahata: I want to introduce vish from Brocade05:03
yamahata_seems no. anyway today we don't have much topics.05:03
yamahata_natarajk: sure.05:03
natarajkhe will be contributing to ServiceVM05:03
yamahata_#topic Announcement05:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcement (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)"05:03
yamahata_#chair natarajk05:03
openstackCurrent chairs: natarajk yamahata_05:03
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vishwanathjHello everybody....I am Vish and work with Karthik at Brocade05:04
yamahata_vishwanathj: hi05:04
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natarajkyamahata:  i have added review comments in the latest Tacker spec05:05
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yamahata_natarajk: Sure, I'll check it today or tomorrow.05:05
s3wongsorry, a bit late05:05
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yamahata_I have some questions on it. I'd like to discuss it later05:05
yamahata_s3wong: Hi05:06
natarajki still see some requirements regarding physical topology support05:06
yamahata_no problem05:06
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yamahata_natarajk: what kind of requirement?05:06
natarajkin tacker spec05:06
natarajki couldn't completly understand the topology related requirements (It is documented under responsibilities section)05:07
yamahata_I see. I think attach/detach interface api is needed in additio05:07
yamahata_#topic servicevm spec review05:08
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yamahata_natarajk: which line of the spec?05:09
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natarajkline 5405:09
natarajkis it physical topology of VMs ?05:09
natarajkwhat is it used for ?05:10
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yamahata_It's about service insertion/chaining05:10
natarajkdo we need to store it05:11
yamahata_Sorry, I misunderstood. It's about physical appliance case.05:11
natarajkFor physical appliance why do we want to discover the topology ?05:12
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yamahata_Cisco CSR1k supports both physical/virtual. So they want uniform API for virtual/physical05:12
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natarajkwould we use the topology information to do policy based allocation ?05:13
yamahata_natarajk: Correct. For that purpose.05:13
natarajki think we need to add some examples in the responsibilities section05:14
yamahata_natarajk: For routervm l3 plugin case, we have mostly none for it.05:14
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yamahata_Bob proposed the sentence, and he'd like to clarify future direction.05:14
natarajkyes, that's what i thought05:15
natarajkwe can continue the discussion in gerrit05:15
yamahata_natarajk: sure.05:15
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yamahata_#topic openstack conference submition05:15
*** openstack changes topic to "openstack conference submition (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)"05:15
yamahata_natarajk: you have submitted the proposal.05:16
yamahata_natarajk: thanks05:16
natarajkwelcome. Let's hope it gets selected :)05:16
yamahata_(Un?)Fortunately, the proposal is also submitted from Intel internal queue.05:16
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s3wongnatarajk: yes, Thanks!05:17
yamahata_Later we will arbiterate05:17
yamahata_natarajk: Probably I'll contact you later.05:17
natarajkyamahata: sure05:17
yamahata_#topic open discussion05:18
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natarajkyamahata: i saw that l3 db mixin refactoring is getting good comments05:18
yamahata_natarajk: Yes. Today I'll respin it.05:19
yamahata_#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/108728/ l3 db mixin refactoring05:19
yamahata_natarajk: Do you have any requirement on refactoring?05:19
yamahata_natarajk: I hope it's also useful for vyatta l3 plugin05:20
natarajkyamahata: in my l3 plugin, i am using the rpc notifier for the firewall agent05:20
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natarajkas firewall agent needs messages from l3 plugin05:20
natarajkregarding router config updates05:20
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yamahata_natarajk: I see. Do you have firewall driver publicly available? or not yet?05:21
natarajkwe have a POC05:21
natarajkbut as firewall service plugin framework is getting refactored, i am waiting for it to get stabilized05:22
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yamahata_natarajk: understand05:22
yamahata_I have one question on l3 plugin implementation05:23
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yamahata_RE: router-remove-interface05:23
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yamahata_The neutron port is deleted on behalf of nova detach interface05:23
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yamahata_Since the device owner of neutron port is router, so doen't port deletion fail?05:24
yamahata_Or you do some trick to work around it?05:24
natarajkwe change the owner during the port deletioin process05:24
yamahata_Oh. Got it.05:24
natarajkyou can check the code.05:24
yamahata_I missed it. I'll recheck the code.05:25
natarajkwe set the device_owner to empty before deleting the port05:25
yamahata_Makes sense05:25
yamahata_thanks for explanation05:26
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yamahata_anything else to discuss?05:26
yamahata_okay thank you everyone05:27
yamahata_see you next week05:27
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"05:28
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 29 05:28:26 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)05:28
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-07-29-05.01.html05:28
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-07-29-05.01.txt05:28
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-07-29-05.01.log.html05:28
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sc68calready for the ipv6 subteam14:02
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sc68cal#startmeeting neutron_ipv614:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 29 14:02:57 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6'14:03
sc68calSo the radvd support landed last week, and we got a feature freeze exception for stateful/stateless support14:04
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sc68cal#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106299/ stateful/stateless support14:06
xuhanpWe got some feedback for the mini version of dnsmasq14:06
xuhanpDo you guys think we should no longer support version < 2.63 ?14:07
sc68calxuhanp: I think 2.63 is now the minimum version that neutron will support14:07
xuhanpby not support I mean exit the program when version <2.6314:07
xuhanpright now it's a warning without exiting.14:08
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sc68calReally? hmm - yeah it should be exiting if not 2.63 or greater14:09
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xuhanpok. that will make the code much clearer14:10
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xuhanpthere was a commit which was trying to support dnsmasq on RH6.414:10
xuhanpwhich is 2.48 if I remember that correctly.14:10
* sc68cal barfs 14:10
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sc68calthat's ancient14:11
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sc68calLet's start a thread on the ML so we can get input from cores, but yeah to my mind it's gotta be at least 2.63 for ipv6 support14:12
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xuhanpSure. will send out the email soon14:12
sc68calxuhanp: thanks14:13
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sc68calHenryG: I see you've got a patch to fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/134534114:14
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1345341 in neutron "radvd needs functional tests" [High,In progress]14:14
HenryGyes, I need Maru's eyes on it14:14
HenryGAlso the devstack patch needs to go upstream first14:15
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sc68calThis devstack patch? https://review.openstack.org/10780114:16
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sc68calHenryG: ok14:18
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sc68calAre there any other high priority items that I have missed?14:20
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amotokihi  i would like to add IPv6 related fields to horizon.14:22
sc68callooks like we got the python-neutronclient changes merge14:22
amotokiIt must be small, but there are valid combinations for ipv6 two modes and I need to investigate valid combinations. any pointers?14:23
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sc68calamotoki: there is a BP that was registered for horizon14:24
sc68calamotoki: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/neutron-subnet-mode-support14:24
aveigaamotoki: the valid mode combinations are already listed in the API spec14:24
aveigathere's a table in there14:24
amotokisc68cal: oh I remember. perhaps I reviewd several months ago.14:24
amotokisc68cal: my question is valid combinations depend on deployment or all combo are valid for all deployments?14:25
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sc68calamotoki: all valid combos are valid for all deployments14:26
amotokisc68cal: thanks for your help. It really helps me when reviewing horizon code.14:27
amotokiI need to moving it forward.14:27
sc68calamotoki: cool, thanks14:27
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sc68calDo we have any other business to discuss?14:31
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sc68calOK- I'll be in #openstack-neutron if anyone needs me, and the mailing list. I'll give back 30 minutes to everyone14:33
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:33
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 29 14:33:54 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:33
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-07-29-14.02.html14:33
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-07-29-14.02.txt14:33
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-07-29-14.02.log.html14:33
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ngm7Hi! I am Naman. I wanted to attend the Gantt meeting. This is my first time attending an openstack meet. I wanted to know if I am at the right place.14:52
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bauzashi ngm714:59
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bauzasthis week, there is a mid-sprint meeting for nova contribs15:00
bauzasso most of the people are not here15:00
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bauzasbut opening a meeting now to let people know15:01
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bauzas#startmeeting gantt15:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 29 15:01:32 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bauzas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gantt'15:01
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bauzas#info Most of the Gantt contributors are in Beaverton, OR for mid-cycle meeting15:02
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bauzas#info unless people have urgent queries for Scheduler or Gantt, we will not do today's meeting15:02
bauzasso, who wants to talk here now?15:02
ngm7hi bauzas!15:02
bauzashi ngm715:03
ngm7umm.. I just wanted to say Hi! drop in to meetings and see how things work. I am a graduate student at North Carolina State University.15:03
bauzaswelcome in the team :)15:03
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ngm7i'll reserve what I have to say when I have formed my thoughts better :P just wanted to look around for now.15:04
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bauzasngm7: so as I said, this week is not the good one for discussing :)15:04
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bauzasngm7: because most of ppl are off15:05
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bauzasngm7: as it's only 8am PST for them15:05
ecrlHey all! It's my first meeting, decided to come check it out since I might be doing some development work with Openstack! I'm a student at Marist College in New York15:05
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ngm7bauzas: right!15:05
bauzasecrl: welcome too15:05
bauzasfor both of you, you can look at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute15:06
ecrlThanks for the info15:06
bauzasthat's a first pointer for seeing how to contribute15:06
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bauzasso, I'll close the meeting now15:08
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bauzasngm7: ecrl: you can ask in #openstack-nova if you need some help15:08
bauzassee you all of you15:08
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:08
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 29 15:08:46 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:08
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-07-29-15.01.html15:08
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-07-29-15.01.txt15:08
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-07-29-15.01.log.html15:08
ngm7thanks bauzas!15:08
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ecrlyes, thanks bauzas!15:09
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boris-42#startmeeting Rally17:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 29 17:03:52 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:03
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'17:03
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k4n0Hi o/17:05
boris-42k4n0 Hi there17:05
boris-42k4n0 let's wait for others17:05
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boris-42tbarron hi there17:06
boris-42tbarron sorry*17:06
boris-42tzabal hi there17:06
tzabalboris-42 hi17:06
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boris-42okay let's start17:08
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boris-42k4n0 could you please update17:09
boris-42share updates17:09
boris-42k4n0 I saw you got merged tempest related patch17:09
k4n0boris-42, I am working on adding unit test coverage and adding context setup timing data17:10
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boris-42k4n0 so how's that go?17:10
boris-42k4n0 btw are you working on --json stuff?17:11
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k4n0boris-42, I have no blockers, will finish task in a day or two.17:11
k4n0boris-42, --json patch is under review17:11
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boris-42k4n0 but it doesn't add to all command --json17:11
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k4n0boris-42, which command are left?17:11
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boris-42k4n0 all17:12
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boris-42k4n0 all commands should accept --json17:12
k4n0boris-42, ok,  i have this patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106813/17:12
k4n0boris-42, i will add to it17:12
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boris-42k4n0 in your patch you are adding only to "deploy config"  and "task results"17:14
boris-42k4n0 but we have much more commands17:14
boris-42k4n0 btw you don't need to add everything in single patch17:14
boris-42k4n0 it can be chain of patches, so it will be simpler to review it17:14
k4n0boris-42, other commands dont have output which can be shown in json, but i will check17:14
boris-42k4n0 all list commands17:15
boris-42k4n0 all run commands17:15
k4n0boris-42, ok, i will check17:15
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boris-42k4n0 all commands that have output should have a way to be displayed in json17:15
k4n0boris-42, got it17:15
boris-42k4n0 as well I think that it makes sense to do alias17:16
k4n0boris-42, alias?17:16
boris-42k4n0 "rally task show" instead of "rally task details"17:16
boris-42oh no17:16
boris-42no details17:16
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boris-42but "resutls"17:16
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boris-42e.g. rally task show and rally task results will be similar17:16
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boris-42and we will deprecate "results"17:17
boris-42k4n0 ^17:17
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k4n0boris-42, ok17:17
boris-42rediskin around??17:17
k4n0#action deprecate rally task results for rally task show17:17
boris-42k4n0  #action deprecate rally task results for rally task show17:18
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boris-42k4n0  #action add to all commands --json17:18
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boris-42 #action add to all commands --json17:18
k4n0boris-42, got it17:18
boris-42heh there is no irc bot message17:18
boris-42for actions17:18
boris-42so as well what we need is --show-uuid17:18
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boris-42k4n0 today with andreykuriling and rediskin we discussed17:19
boris-42k4n0 that it's quite hard to use in bash scripts rally17:19
boris-42k4n0 cause we don't know UUID of created resources17:19
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boris-42k4n0 so it will be nice to add to all commands that are creating argument17:19
boris-42k4n0 --show-uuid that will display only one line of output that contains uuid of created resource17:20
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rediskink4n0: to be able to write something like this http://paste.openstack.org/show/88961/17:20
k4n0boris-42, ok, so all create commands will show uuid if --show-uuid is used17:20
boris-42k4n0 yep like rediskin ^ showed17:21
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boris-42okay let some17:22
boris-42let's move**17:22
k4n0ok got it17:22
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boris-42#topic RPS load generator17:22
*** openstack changes topic to "RPS load generator (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:22
k4n0#action http://paste.openstack.org/show/88961/17:22
boris-42Oaky finally we merged patch17:22
boris-42that fixes periodic runner17:22
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boris-42and actually change it's name to something more clear17:22
boris-42so we have some kind of "Scenario per seconds" runner17:23
rediskinthere is already some changes in rps on review17:23
boris-42#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/102363/17:23
boris-42rediskin yep could you share about them17:24
rediskinjust some improvements17:24
boris-42rediskin --verobse share about what is changed there17:24
rediskinmost significant change is joinig completed threads once they completed17:25
rediskincurrent prs runner statrs all threads17:25
rediskinand then join all threads17:25
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rediskinif we specify "100000" times in config17:26
rediskinwe got 100000 alive threads17:26
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boris-42rediskin ohhh17:26
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boris-42rediskin so that won't work=)17:26
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boris-42rediskin is your patch ready?17:26
rediskinit will work with 64 bit PID identifiers %)17:27
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rediskinyes, it is ready17:27
boris-42rediskin okay so we will need to review it=)17:27
boris-42k4n0 ^17:27
k4n0boris-42, yes, ill review it17:27
boris-42tbarron ping*17:27
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boris-42#topic Production ready cleanups17:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Production ready cleanups (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:28
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boris-42sooo guys it's quite large stuff17:28
boris-42first of all we should17:28
boris-421) Split admin and user cleanups17:28
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boris-422) Make cleanup more offline ready17:29
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boris-42e.g. we should be able to kill rally process17:29
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boris-42and restore process of cleanuping17:29
boris-423) Make a cleanup specific per task / so we will be able to cleanup resources related to only one task17:30
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boris-424) Add functional job that will check that cleanup works in any case (even if rally process fails in the middle)17:30
boris-42rediskin ^ are you ready for this?)17:30
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boris-42rediskin yep it's quite largeeee task17:31
rediskini just trying to split admin and user cleanup17:31
boris-42rediskin yep when you finish that I will help you with explaining next steps=)17:32
boris-42rediskin btw we should have next submethods17:32
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boris-42rediskin cleanup_tenant_resources, cleanupt_user_resources17:32
boris-42rediskin in both admin and user cleanup context17:32
boris-42rediskin cause quotas, images are per tenant, and instances are more per user17:33
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boris-42rediskin thoughts?17:33
rediskini can tell you more after splitting admin and users cleanups17:34
rediskini missing a lot in cleanup stuff17:35
boris-42rediskin yep this is quite large topis17:35
boris-42rediskin probably I should create big blueprint with link to the google doc17:35
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boris-42#action make a big doc about cleanup stuff17:36
boris-42#topic Rally & Specs17:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Rally & Specs (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:36
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boris-42I think that we should make in doc/ new directory doc/specs17:36
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rediskinmaybe we should write docs about cleanup mechanism in dos/sources/cleanup.rst17:37
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boris-42rediskin +117:37
boris-42rediskin did you take a look at doc jobs?17:37
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rediskinwhich jobs?17:37
boris-42rediskin gate-<project-name>-docs17:37
boris-42rediskin actually we have already one17:38
rediskinbut there is a gate-rally-docs job already in rally17:38
boris-42rediskin but it won't check rally/docs/specs17:38
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rediskinit should be different job?17:39
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rediskinone more repo on rtfd.org?17:39
rediskinseparate rally and rally-specs?17:39
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rediskini thought rally-specs will be just another section of rally-docs17:40
boris-42rediskin then they should be in rally/doc/source17:40
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boris-42rediskin https://github.com/openstack/oslo-specs/blob/master/tox.ini#L17-L1817:41
rediskinwe have something similar in rally17:41
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boris-42rediskin https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/tox.ini#L32-L3517:41
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boris-42rediskin ^ it's different a bit17:42
boris-42rediskin in any case maybe we should just refactor current docs17:42
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boris-42rediskin e.g. everything that is in source move to the top17:42
rediskini believe there is "make html" in setup.py %)17:43
boris-42rediskin and have in rtfm everything17:43
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boris-42rediskin so we will have Samples, user_stoires and other in rtfm17:43
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rediskinyes, it would be nice17:44
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boris-42rediskin okay I will make some small patch17:45
boris-42rediskin to refactor this17:45
boris-42rediskin its not to much work17:45
boris-42#action refactor rtfm17:45
boris-42#topic open discussion17:45
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:45
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boris-42anybody would like to discuss anything?17:45
lordda quick question: Would somebody want help into improving the installation method for CentOS?17:45
boris-42lordd as far as I know you tried to install it on Fuel controller?17:46
lorddwell.. yeah, not as smooth as I wanted it to be, so I tried again on an empty CentOS machine17:47
boris-42  lordd  it's problem of fuel controller image17:47
boris-42lordd Centos that is used for Fuel controller is very custom17:47
boris-42lordd as well you shouldn't install rally on Fuel controllers17:47
lorddok, got it, makes sense17:48
boris-42lordd actually we have functional testing, that is run on every patch in rally17:48
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boris-42lordd that checks that that script works in centos and ubuntu17:48
boris-42lordd and installas rally successfully17:48
lorddso, rally is also funcional with 6.5, ok17:48
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boris-42lordd I hope so=)17:49
boris-42rediskin what Centos image is in gates?17:49
tzaballordd i have tested it against CentOS 6.5 and it installed rally successfully17:50
rediskinboris-42: 6.5 afair17:50
boris-42rediskin okay good=)17:50
lorddok, we're good then, sorry for the fuzz17:50
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boris-42lordd no worries and don't install rally on Fuel controllers=)17:50
boris-42tzabal as you are here17:51
lorddhaha, sorry it was for quick testing17:51
boris-42lordd it's better to use VMs even in such case=)17:51
boris-42lordd or your laptop=)17:52
lorddeventually, though where should cloud admins have rally installed?17:52
lorddwhen rally is a service17:52
boris-42lordd at some day it will be horizon plugin17:52
boris-42lordd and it will be installed probably on controllers17:52
lorddok, for the moment I learnt my lesson and I have my vm with it17:53
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boris-42lordd yep it's definitely better=) but we are working on getting this as a horizon plugin17:53
boris-42lordd so fuel will install it (like murano and so on)17:53
lorddwhen you need help with the UI, ring a bell :)17:54
boris-42tzabal wanna discuss your work?17:54
boris-42lordd hm you are UI guy/17:54
lordddepends of the UI, but I can do things with it17:54
boris-42lordd and write a code?)17:54
lorddmy Python is a sysadmin python17:54
boris-42lordd and js?)17:55
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lorddyep, the same17:55
lorddcan do it, but will be ugly17:55
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boris-42lordd =)17:55
tzabalboris-42 well i hope that we will have a functional vm benchmarking in some days :)17:55
boris-42tzabal ya it takes sometimes a lot of time to get done stuff=)17:56
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tzabalboris-42 yeap17:56
boris-42tzabal okay hope to see your patches=)17:56
tzabalboris-42 right now the context works without the extra utils module that i have created17:56
boris-42tzabal nize17:56
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tzabalboris-42 the "bad" thing is that i have 3 patches under review, and in order to see that vm benchmarking actually works, you need to have all of them merged17:57
boris-42tzabal nope you don't need17:57
tzabalboris-42 how come?17:57
boris-42tzabal just do next thing17:57
boris-42tzabal put all patches in one branch17:57
boris-42tzabal e.g. create one branch17:57
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boris-42tzabal and cherry-pick them with keeping proper order17:58
boris-42tzabal and run git review -R17:58
boris-42tzabal gerrit will set automactially dependencies17:58
boris-42tzabal and everything will work=)17:58
tzabalboris-42 hm ok i will check it17:58
boris-42okay thank you guys for joining meeting17:59
boris-42see you17:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 29 18:00:02 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-07-29-17.03.html18:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-07-29-17.03.txt18:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-07-29-17.03.log.html18:00
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morganfainbergdolphm, ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:00
stevemarahoy hoy18:00
morganfainbergkeystone meeting time!18:00
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gyeenothing on the agenda today?18:00
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gyeek, we need stevemar to do the table flip then18:00
morganfainberggyee, looks empty to me.18:00
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stevemargyee, I'm not ready!18:01
dolphmayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting18:01
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bknudsonI made some progress on JSON Home --18:01
lbragstaddolphm: hey18:01
bknudsonproposed change to spec18:01
dolphm#startmeeting keystone18:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 29 18:01:29 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
* morganfainberg quickly adds something18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:01
dolphm#topic Entertainment by stevemar18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Entertainment by stevemar (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
dolphmstevemar: o/18:01
henrynashdolphm: is that a song?18:01
stevemarby popular demand...  (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻18:01
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dolphm#action stevemar encore!18:02
stevemaroh jeez18:02
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morganfainberg ┬──┬ ノ( ゜-)18:02
ayoungI'm here18:02
bknudsonany tables left?18:02
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stevemar┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)18:02
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dolphm#topic open discussion18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
morganfainbergdolphm, tokens?18:03
henrynashi can juggle…but hard to show on IRC18:03
dolphmmorganfainberg: tokens?18:03
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bknudsonhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/109881/ -- JSON Home change for API18:03
stevemarthe non-persistent kind18:03
morganfainbergeverybody dance? (>'-')> <('-'<) ^(' - ')^ <('-'<) (>'-')>18:03
bknudsonand I rewrote the server to support it -- https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103983/18:03
dolphmi started tracking blueprints against juno-3 this morning: https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/juno-318:03
morganfainbergdolphm, the whole uuid vs pki thing.18:04
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dolphmthat excludes hierarchical multitenancy, which i think should go into a feature branch for juno18:04
dolphmmorganfainberg: ah18:04
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stevemarbknudson, i groaned so hard when I saw all the code you needed to re-write for JSON home18:04
stevemarevery router :(18:05
bknudsonstevemar: I should split it up...18:05
morganfainbergbknudson, ++ if you don't mind.18:05
bknudsonbut I needed some way for the router to have some state.18:05
lbragstadbknudson: yeah18:05
morganfainbergbknudson, it looks straight forward, just a lot of code18:05
stevemarbknudson, nah, it's not that, I'm just used to seeing the routers look the same18:05
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gyeestevemar, I have the same feeling, seem like its scream out for a decorator or something18:05
bknudsonok. I'll work on splitting it up into reviewable chunks18:06
henrynashdolphm: (as an aside, I am sure my name continues to be taken in vain/ referred to as a PITA on the hierachical MT  spec…since I will keep -1ing it until we get a spec that actually explains how we solve a use case)18:06
morganfainbergbknudson, thank you! :)18:06
stevemarhenrynash, sounds like a good reason to be a PITA18:07
morganfainberghenrynash, i'm supporting your -1's fwiw. we shouldn't be adding code for the sake of adding code.18:07
dolphmhenrynash: ++18:07
gyeehenrynash, yeah, there are known unknowns with that spec18:07
dstanekhenrynash: ++18:07
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morganfainbergdolphm, i agree, this sounds like something that will need to be a feature branch for juno, possibly merged in Kilo18:08
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henrynashstevemar: and thanks to your federation K2K we have a good example of how to relate a proposed change to solving a use case18:08
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stevemarhenrynash, speaking of k2k.. i really need to take a deep dive into pysaml2 and figure out how to make the darn assertion18:09
dolphmmorganfainberg: i need to figure out how to make a feature branch for it, get the code proposed there, and target the bp to 'next'18:09
gyeekilo reminds me of scarface18:09
dolphmwhich will reflect the merge18:09
dolphmis kilo the official name?18:09
morganfainbergdolphm, yep18:10
stevemari think it is18:10
gyeeI snort a kilo!18:10
henrynashstevemar: ah, yes, it did kinda of asume we could work out how to do that :-)18:10
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dolphmwoo! two of us independently came up with that name :D18:10
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bknudsonis there a town in France called Kilo?18:10
henrynashit had to be kilo….18:10
morganfainbergnear to france the "kilogram" (the offical measurement of what a kilo is) is stored18:10
dolphmthe actual physical reference18:10
henrynashbknudson: there’s certainly a lump of metal that’s kind imprortant that the French have...18:11
dolphmwhich also defines a liter of water18:11
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dolphm1 kilogram of pure water = 1 liter, i think18:11
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morganfainbergdolphm, interesting18:11
stevemardolphm, i think you are right18:11
stevemarif i recall high school science class...18:11
henrynashhmm, experiemnt: so how “un-pure: is coffee….waht happens if I drink a kilo of it....18:12
dolphmoh, and 1ml of water cubed has 1cm sides, so that's how a centimeter is defined18:12
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stevemarsounds like dolphm is a fan of the metric system18:12
dolphmstevemar: ++18:12
bknudsonice water?18:12
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morganfainbergmetric system lesson in Keystone Meeting today, hosted by dolphm18:12
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dolphmso, i guess we have a real topic, but this is also worthy of a spec that doesn't exist yet18:13
dolphm#topic PKI or UUID as the default provider18:13
*** openstack changes topic to "PKI or UUID as the default provider (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:13
dolphm#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/pki-vs-uuid18:13
bknudsonL will probably be Liter.18:13
dolphmthis is a comparison of the state/history of PKI & UUID ^18:13
stevemarwho do we break? we have to break someone18:13
morganfainbergnot as glamourous as cosmos hosted by NDT or sagan.18:13
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dolphmwhich looks like a pretty good argument to change the default back to UUID18:13
bknudsonthere's deployments using both PKI and UUID18:13
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bknudsonsome have tried using PKI and they wound up using UUID18:14
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dolphmthe original reason for changing the default to PKI was to catch issues with PKI earlier by exposing a wider audience to it via devstack (early in the grizzly cycle, IIRC)18:14
dolphmbknudson: that's the most common scenario i've heard18:14
morganfainbergas much as it pains me to say it, we could focus on making uuid tokens way better18:15
dolphmlots of people try PKI, find problems, and give up. it should work the other way around - adventurous deployments should be experimenting with the unknown quantity18:15
lbragstadI just saw a bug roll through recently pertaining to PKI tokens18:15
morganfainbergrather than forcing people to PKI18:15
dolphmmorganfainberg: ++18:15
bknudsonI think there was talk of a nightly test run that could have PKI tokens.18:15
morganfainbergbknudson, i'd setup a tempest run that only ran for keystone that does PKI18:15
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dolphmbknudson: that would work; where was that discussion?18:15
morganfainbergbknudson, it's the *way* forward.18:15
henrynashif we don’t use PKI, do we have a solution for production-at -scale?18:15
bknudsonI'm pretty sure there's already some kind of occasional run that posts failures to some -qa list18:16
morganfainberghenrynash, i have some ideas on how to make uuid scale.18:16
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lbragstadmorganfainberg: would you want to add that to the etherpad?18:16
morganfainbergbknudson, from what i gathered on infra, we can have tempest runs that are exclusive to keystone. they would test a specific scenario18:16
gyeewhat other problems beside size?18:16
morganfainbergbut they wouldn't be triggered by say nova patches.18:17
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ayoungDo you want me to explain?18:17
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jamielennoxmorganfainberg: i'd like to see them, i wasn't around for the initial part of PKI tokens but my understanding was that they just ended up impractical18:17
morganfainbergbknudson, pki vs uuid is a good approach18:17
henrynashgyee: Horizon doesn’t work (well not today)18:17
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morganfainbergbknudson, erm good use-case for a specific tempest test18:17
henrynashguee: although that may be relate dto size...18:17
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bknudsonmorganfainberg: we'd probably want keystone & middleware18:17
gyeehenrynash, right, most browser cookies max out at 4k18:17
bknudsonI wouldn't expect a nova change to break PKI tokens, so that works for me.18:18
morganfainbergbknudson, it would be worth doing for keystone, middleware, and client18:18
bknudson& keystoneclient18:18
morganfainbergbknudson, ++++18:18
ayoungHorizion was working under the assumption that the Horizon server would have no memcached18:18
dolphmhenrynash: horizon works afaik, but i'm sure something breaks beyond a certain size18:18
gyeedolphm, horizon doesn't store PKI token, they store the hash of it18:18
ayoungThey want to stick the token in a cookie18:18
ayounghardcoded to be md5 hash, BTW18:19
dolphmgyee: thereby negating the advantage of PKI?18:19
gyeedolphm, exactly18:19
henrynashdolphm: I think that’s probably true…it matches what we found…..and today IceHouse Horizon didn’t use ?nocatalog18:19
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ayoung#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/django_openstack_auth/tree/openstack_auth/user.py#n7118:20
dolphmhenrynash: ?notcatalog hasn't been useful yet anyway; and that's not horizon's fault\18:20
gyeebut don't we have the same problem with SAML assertions?18:20
nonameenternamedo you know if there is a limitation for url token in v2 when using pki?18:20
gyeethey are just as big18:20
henrynashdophm: ‘cause you can’t get it the catalog when you DO want it?18:20
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ayoungIf Horizon has memcached available it becomes moot18:21
ayoungand the same is true with any service.18:21
bknudsonI'm fine with defaulting to UUID tokens, and when we figure out how to make PKI tokens work in general then we can change the default to PKI.18:21
henrynashdolphm: (prior to you recent change)18:21
ayoungIn all cases there is 1)  how do I get the token data up front and then 2) how do I optimized network traffic18:21
bknudsonI think we have a pretty good idea of what the problems are.18:21
lbragstadbknudson: ++18:21
ayoungUUID tokens pushed all of the burden onto online calls to keystone18:22
ayoungRight now, we need to fix Horizon18:22
stevemari'm kinda impressed at the amount of edits happening to the etherpad18:22
dolphmhenrynash: right, there's no alternative to get a catalog until now (and even now, nothing is using that alternative)18:23
bknudsonI like the idea of injecting the token into memcache18:23
dolphmayoung: right now, keystone's default configuration isn't useful18:23
ayoungI broken it18:23
gyeememcache? we are talking about client-side18:24
ayoungdolphm, Horizon is doing what I explained to them they could do based on the requirements from 2 years ago18:24
ayoungfixing DJango-Openstack-Auth is simpler18:24
ayoungKeystone should not be broadcasting tokens18:25
dolphmayoung: that's just one issue on a long list of issues that need to be resolved for PKI to be a viable option for most deployments18:25
ayoungplease don't go down that path18:25
gyeecookie is client-side thingy, are we talking about memcache on the client-side? I am lost18:25
ayoungdolphm, no, that is the primary.  Beyond that, it is all about optimizing network traffic18:25
ayoungthe UUID vs PKI is a false dichotomy18:25
dolphmayoung: i don't care if you call it the "primary" or not - it's a significant issue on a list of significant issues18:25
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gyeeare there non-significant issue on the list of significant issues? :D18:26
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dolphmgyee: user experience, arguably?18:26
dolphmgyee: it's not breaking, but it's frustrating for a lot of people18:26
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ayoungOnce a PKIZ token goes from one service to another, they can use a hash of the token to refer to the token.  THat is an optimization.18:26
ayoungIt reduces network traffic even further18:27
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gyeeayoung, I still lost, hash of PKIZ token is no good18:27
gyeethey need the whole shebang18:27
ayounggyee, its the BP that Dolph decided to -218:27
dolphmayoung: one of many necessary optimizations that have not landed yet. we're what, 2 years into PKI and still having problems with it?18:27
dolphmUUID is the stable choice18:28
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stevemarstable choice != right choice ?18:28
dolphmwhich means it's the most reasonable default choice until PKI catches up, and can with it's architectural advantages18:28
gyeebut I kinda agree with dolphm, we are in half-ass land right now18:28
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dolphmcan win with*18:28
ayounggyee, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/109295/18:29
gyeeis Horizon the only issue we need to deal with?18:29
ayounggyee, swift complained about request size18:29
jamielennoxgyee: i think that everything that goes to apache is a problem18:29
morganfainberggyee, and deployers who hate that the keystone token is 2-10k request size overhead18:29
jamielennoxthere are a couple of services heading down that route18:29
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bknudsonthe size of the token increases with the size of the cloud18:30
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bknudsonso it's not scalable18:30
morganfainbergi'm hearing people want AWS-style auth. it's a short key.18:30
henrynashceratinly from an IBM point of view, we’d use PKI(Z) if we could get it to work reliably across the core projects…..18:30
dolphmbknudson: ++18:30
dolphmbknudson: for now18:30
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gyeemorganfainberg, AWS is signature access18:30
dolphmbknudson: that seems like the easiest issue to address to me18:30
morganfainberggyee, sortof18:30
bknudsondolphm: y, I agree it can be fixed18:31
morganfainberggyee, dpeneds on the interface18:31
henrynashactually PKI(Z) with “catalog on demand"18:31
bknudsonbut if it's not going to be fixed in J then the default in J should be UUID18:31
dolphmgyee: morganfainberg: we kind of already have that with oauth1, we just don't have middleware that can validate your request (oauth1_token?)18:31
dolphmbknudson: ++18:31
jamielennoxbut does catalog on demand or even id only catalogs end up with the same amount of keystone traffic as simply uuid tokens?18:31
morganfainberghenrynash, quick calculation shows that with PKIZ and catalog on demand, we will still avg a 2k token size18:32
lbragstadstupid question: what does Cern use?18:32
stevemarmarekd|away, ^18:32
morganfainberghenrynash, or within 1.5-2k range for the heavier tokens (e.g federation)18:32
henrynashmorganfainberq: which is big, but not terrible18:32
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morganfainberghenrynash, the complaint is for each request you're doing 2k, extra... which adds up18:32
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stevemardo we know if the other projects are OK with PKI? or just haven't played around with it yet?18:33
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dstanekjamielennox: if you mean having a separate request i would guess not since you only need to get it once instead of passing it around18:33
dolphmstevemar: other services?18:33
morganfainbergstevemar, the projects are mostly agnostic18:33
dolphmstevemar: swift hates them, but i think they're the only ones with a strong opinion either way18:33
morganfainbergstevemar, middleware makes it less of an issue, swift *dislikes* pki18:33
stevemardolphm, yes services, we mention swift and horizon dislike pki18:33
morganfainbergstevemar, horizon has a technical issue with pki18:34
morganfainbergstevemar, not that they dislike it18:34
dolphmmorganfainberg: ++ horizon is fixable, afaict18:34
henrynashmorganfainnerg: true18:34
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dolphmunless we run into another issue there *shrug*18:34
stevemarso why not address those 2?18:34
ayoungI'm working on it18:34
morganfainbergstevemar, how do you address swift's concern? even 2k on a 50k response is a big overhead.18:35
ayoungmorganfainberg, that is what my BP was for18:35
dolphmstevemar: the point is that this has been a two year history of issues, and we likely have more issues down the road that we're not aware of yet18:35
ayounguse PKI to deliver the token, and then use a cookie to refer to it on additioanl requiests18:35
morganfainbergayoung, your BP doesn't really solve that concern, it masks it sometimes sortof18:35
ayoungit is really the same as UUID tokane, just no need to persist them18:35
ayoungNo it solve it18:35
ayoungthe  token data needs to get to swift somehow18:35
dolphmayoung: if i'm only ever making one request to swift per token, you're not solving anything18:35
ayoungwith a UUID token, swift needs to fetch it18:36
morganfainbergdolphm, ++18:36
ayoungdolphm, you are correct, and there is no net difference between PKI and UUID18:36
morganfainbergayoung, but that is internal to the cloud not *external* user-facing18:36
dolphmayoung: ?!18:36
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ayoungit is only a problem when multiple requests are made18:36
morganfainbergayoung, whcih is the complaint.18:36
morganfainbergnotmyname, ping18:37
gyeeayoung, how does it work on the client side though? you still require memcache running on the client which is not realistic18:37
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morganfainbergnotmyname, you around? have a question regarding swift if you are.18:37
gyeebrowser javascripts making direct Keystone calls18:37
ayounggyee, justy like every other web app out there.  After the PKIZ token coes across the wire, the service returns a cookie.  Instead of sending the PKIZ token across the wire again, resend only to cookie18:38
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ayoungdifference here is that the cookie is assigned by the remote service, not by Keystone18:38
ayounggyee, its really the same thing that Horizon is doing with Form Auth.18:38
gyeebut you still need the real token to make Keystone calls18:38
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* morganfainberg looks for other swift types18:39
ayounggyee, say this is horizon to Nova.  After the first call, Nova has the PKIZ token in its memcache18:39
morganfainbergi think this is a question we should *ask* them directly18:39
morganfainbergdolphm, who else is swift besides notmyname ?18:39
dolphmcreiht: ^18:39
ayoungmorganfainberg, I did.  THey asked me, and we had this conversation at the last summit18:39
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morganfainbergayoung, and i want to have it clear what they're complaints are where we all see it18:40
jamielennoxayoung: i don't mind the idea but if we did that i would want to do it properly, have a POST route where you exchanged the PKI token for a UUID (like SAML) rather than some hybrid cookie solution18:40
ayoungjamielennox, why reinvent HTTP?18:40
dolphmmorganfainberg: they must not use this meeting channel, none of them are here lol18:40
ayoungTHe rest of the world uses secure cookies for this.  We should be using them, too18:40
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jamielennoxayoung: if we are having the problem with header size, why not fix both problems18:41
gyeeayoung, in that case, dolphm is correct, cookies are essentially UUID tokens18:41
gyeesince you are storing them into memcache anyway18:41
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ayounggyee, with one significant difference:  UUID as implemented needs to be in a Keystone database.  Always18:41
ayoungTHe way we were heade with OPKI tokens was that even hte keystone server should be able to disappear for short times and still all of the tokens would work18:42
dolphmyou could also combine shared secrets with UUID, to get some of the advantages of PKI with almost none of the complexity. do some light crypto validation on the token to verify encryption with a shared secret, before bothering to call back to keystone18:42
ayounggyee, memcached local to Horizon is different from making a REST call to Keystone18:42
ayoungdolphm, you would have the same size isssues18:43
bknudsonwe should make keystone faster than memcached18:43
jamielennoxbknudson: rewrite in C?18:43
dolphmayoung: i'm not talking about adding signature overhead18:43
ayoungdolphm, I was inthe middle of a conversation with one of our X509 guys right before this.  The smallest we could get for overhead woult be about 700 bytes18:43
morganfainbergjamielennox, i hear earlang is fast.18:43
dolphmayoung: that's waaaay bigger than what i'm thinking18:43
dolphmayoung: i'm talking < 64 chars18:43
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ayoungwhat do you mean by "light crypto validation on the token" then?18:44
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jamielennoxeither way this puts a requirement on middleware to have access to a persistent (not memcached) token storage though?18:44
jamielennoxayoung: symmetric18:44
dolphmjamielennox: memcached is still fine18:45
ayoungjamielennox, that was a requirement before, thought18:45
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dolphmjamielennox: unless you're talking about morgan's thing?18:45
dolphmjamielennox: which is just some shared kvs18:45
ayoungjust not explicit, but it turns out that people didn't want to go to Keystone for every uuid lookup, just the first18:45
jamielennoxayoung's thing, if the services start emitting tokens then they need a persistent store of them18:45
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jamielennoxwhich i thought you were talking about when you were talkling symetric but maybe you were refering to general UUID tokens18:46
morganfainbergswift type folks must be busy / elsewhere it's really quiet in their channel18:46
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bknudsonkeystone would be a lot faster validating tokens if it didn't generate the catalog18:48
gyeeits it fair to say that if we solved the catalog problem for the services, we are fine with PKI tokens?18:48
morganfainbergbknudson, ++ the catalog is *really* bad performance wise18:48
stevemargyee, not entirely, i think folks don't like the setup part18:48
bknudsoni.e., if it was just an indexed lookup in the token table and return 200 or 40418:48
morganfainberghonestly, i think as long as we support uuid tokens, people will tend to use it instead18:48
henrynashquestion: I know very system dependant….but how long do people kind of see a token call toaking that has to generate a catalog?18:48
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dolphmgyee: you still have setup complexity and user experience burden, both of which we will never overcome18:49
morganfainbergbknudson, i am working to get us there, a lot of the non-persistent token stuff will help make it easier.18:49
morganfainbergbknudson, so we could do something like an IMS check on a token or some such.18:49
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ayoungCatalog is there only because  the old validate call required the service catalog.  I'm pretty sure nothing uses it18:50
dolphmmorganfainberg: IMS?18:50
morganfainbergdolphm, if-modified-since, or something equally light18:50
gyeewell, barbican will help us out right?18:50
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morganfainbergdolphm, "is token X valid since TIME"18:50
dolphm(10 minutes)18:50
hrybackiayoung: would that make it subject to removal then?18:50
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ayounghrybacki, I think it means we can just yank the Catalog\18:51
gyeebut, but , key provisioning/management can be automated18:51
dolphm#action dolphm to file a wishlist bug on the change in default provider18:51
dolphm ^ and submit a patch18:51
jamielennoxayoung: i don't think that's right, nova -> glance for a user token must know the URL for glance from the validated user token18:51
morganfainberggyee, i don't think that will *really* convince people to use PKI. but just a hunch18:51
dolphmlol ++18:51
dolphmthis complex thing can be made easier with another complex thing! yay18:52
henrynashwith 10 mins to go:  I’ll suggest a couple o f things for people to look at once we’re done here18:52
henrynashquick relief approval: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/109290/18:52
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dolphmhenrynash: go for it, i don't think there's much left to add to the above ^18:52
dolphm#topic open discussion18:52
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:52
henrynasha new guy form IBM with his first patch18:52
morganfainbergah cool18:53
henrynashfeelf ree to comment on my/adam’s spec on endpoint policy: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99842/18:53
dolphmhenrynash: ooh, if that's approved, what's the likelihood that we'll see an implementation land in juno?18:53
lbragstadFYI: Bugs opened against Keystone this week: http://paste.openstack.org/show/88936/18:54
dolphmhenrynash: it's in the juno/ directory, but still worth an ask18:54
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stevemari think gordc's patch for moving audit over is worth checking out too: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/102958/618:54
henrynashkeystone implemtation for sure….how much we get into other projects is less clear18:54
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gyee"landed" including middleware changes?18:54
henrynashour middleware, yes18:54
henrynashI’m commited to both of those18:54
gyeeand horizon? :)18:55
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gyeeafaik, horizon is busy parsing policy files18:55
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stevemardolphm, you already +2'ed this before, want to do it again: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/108839/18:55
henrynashgyee: as I said, we’ll see how much we can get into the otehrs18:56
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jamielennoxi'd love people to have a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106659/18:56
jamielennoxi'm trying to rip out httpretty - too many problems18:56
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dolphmstevemar: done18:56
gyeejamielennox, who maintains request-mock?18:57
dolphmjamielennox: holy wow18:57
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jamielennoxbut to do it is going to be a fairly big changeover patch and it's going to get in the way of everyone18:57
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jamielennoxgyee: me, and in the process of putting it on stackforge18:57
dolphmjamielennox: is that ready to merge right now?18:57
jamielennoxno more httpretty screw ups18:57
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ayounghrybacki, ^^18:57
bknudsonmaybe we could get request-mock into openstack?18:57
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dolphmbknudson: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106659/5/test-requirements.txt ?18:58
morganfainbergbknudson, it sounds like openstack-dev if anything.18:58
jamielennoxbknudson: i've got it passed requirements18:58
dolphmbknudson: https://github.com/openstack/requirements/blob/master/global-requirements.txt#L11318:58
dolphm(2 min)18:58
jamielennoxdolphm: i'll have to check i assume something has landed since it last passed18:58
bknudsonas long as it's apl18:58
jamielennoxdolphm: but that's kind of my point, i need to get it uploaded then merged really quickly18:58
dolphmjamielennox: i'd be happy to review that, but not more than once :P18:59
hrybackiayoung: heh18:59
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morganfainbergjamielennox, would it be possible to convert some tests to request-mock before others?18:59
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morganfainbergjamielennox, as in... split it up so rebase hell doesn't kill you on the massive changeset?18:59
bknudsonjamielennox: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106659/5/keystoneclient/tests/auth/test_identity_common.py switches from using a constant variable to a magic string... seems like a step backwards18:59
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bknudsone.g., httpretty.GET to 'GET'19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 29 19:00:17 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-07-29-18.01.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-07-29-18.01.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-07-29-18.01.log.html19:00
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clarkbI am sort of here. currently at nova/ironic/containers meetup19:01
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jeblair#startmeeting infra19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 29 19:01:35 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:01
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:01
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jeblair#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting19:01
jeblairagenda ^19:01
jeblair#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-07-15-19.05.html19:01
jeblairlast meeting ^19:01
jeblair#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-07-08-19.01.html19:02
jeblairlast non-beer meeting ^19:02
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fungievery meeting should be a beer meeting19:02
jeblairfungi: ++19:02
* Ajaeger1 hands out beer for everybody ;)19:02
jeblair#topic  Centos7 jobs19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Centos7 jobs (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
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ianwi've gone about as far as i can with the centos7 jobs out-of-tree19:03
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ianwthere's three reviews, linked in the agenda19:03
ianw1) add puppet support19:03
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103458/19:03
ianw2) add rax image to nodepool19:03
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/109906/19:04
ianw3) add an experimental devstack job19:04
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/110178/19:04
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ianw(thanks jeblair)19:04
ianwany objections to this approach?19:04
ianwi have the centos7 disk-image-builder changes merged too19:04
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ianwbut i would rather just get things going in rackspace and sort out those initial bugs i'm sure are there19:05
jeblairianw: nope; we'll probably consider it experimental until we either have a base image in hpcloud or dib/glance working there19:05
ianwjeblair: yes, that's fine19:05
jeblairianw: but i see no reason not to keep moving ahead in rax19:05
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fungiseems a sane outline to me, having not reviewed the changes myself yet19:05
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ianwsimilar to the f20 job, we won't promote until we get redundancy19:05
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ianwonce it is working, i can start more serious conversations about where we want to use centos v fedora, etc19:06
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ianwso yeah, at this point, just need those reviews to make it through.  that's all for that topic19:07
fungipretty sure we can't drop centos, nor can we use fedora for long-term stable support branches19:08
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jeblairianw: i'm assuming you've been exposed to our rationale for using centos (tc distro support policy says "try not to break rhel", plus, it has a support lifetime that exceeds openstack's for stable branches)19:08
clarkbwe can't drop centos6 for juno and icehouse19:08
jeblairianw: if not, we can expand on those points now if it would help19:08
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clarkbcentos6 won't be part of kilo testing aiui19:08
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ianwyeah, that's all cool, i spend time keeping devstack working on rhel6 :)19:09
fungigetting centos7 working before juno release would prepare us well for dropping centos6 in kilo19:09
ianwbut yeah, with kilo we can finally move to python 2.719:09
ianwthat will be a nice patch to devstack with a lot of "-" lines19:09
ianwfungi: yep, exactly the idea :)19:10
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jeblaircool, so hopefully the core team can get around to reviewing things again (i see some activity happenening; sadly, i have not yet been able to really join in)19:10
clarkbI am trying when not distracted by meetup19:10
mordredyah. sorry - been WAY behind on reviews19:10
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fungii think we all have19:11
jeblairwe've been like flying around and talking about important things :)19:11
jeblair#topic  nodepool history tracking (ianw)19:11
*** openstack changes topic to "nodepool history tracking (ianw) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:11
fungiright now i'm just trying to find all of the balls i've dropped19:11
ianwso the history allocation changes were reverted in nodepool19:12
ianwagain some linked reviews, the main one being19:12
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ianw#link https://review.openstack.org/10918519:12
fungiianw: you had new reviews up to revise the algorithm there, right?19:12
fungiahh, yep[19:12
ianwthe only way i could make it go crazy was to have a negative available count passed into the allocator19:13
ianwit starts subtracting negatives, and ends up returning more than requested19:13
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ianwwhich seems to match with what was seen19:13
ianwhowever, this wasn't specific to the history allocation changes19:13
fungithat does sound basically like what we witnessed in production19:13
jeblairianw: was the negative available count logged?  if so, we can check the logs and see if that happened19:13
* ttx lurks19:14
ianwjeblair: no, i don't think that would show up in logs.  that change puts in an error message for that situation19:14
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ianwalong with avoiding the negative19:14
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fungiand we definitely were able to recreate the issue twice in production on consecutive restarts, then reverted the allocation history feature and it subsided on the next restart19:15
ianwso yeah, i'm open to ideas, but that was all i came up with19:15
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jeblairianw: hrm, i think it's worth digging deeper to find either an error in the new code, or a change related to it that could have caused the issue -- the correlation is pretty strong19:15
jeblairianw: also, did you note the fact that it showed up on the second pass through the allocator (not the first)?19:16
ianwhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/109890/1/nodepool/allocation.py <- makeGrants() is the suspect here19:16
fungii've also restarted nodepool at least once more since, again under heavy volume, and didn't see the problem come back19:16
ianww.grant(min(int(w.amount), self.available))19:17
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ianwthat really should clamp things to never grant more than available19:17
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jeblairi'm worried that we may have changed something fundamental with the allocator patch, and this would just mask that19:18
jeblairi'll try to think deeply about it when i review it19:19
fungiwould it make sense to add some logging around there, unrevert the allocation history change, then try to get it to break in production again?19:19
ianwfungi: i can take that approach, currently the allocator doesn't really do any debug logging19:20
fungiassuming we can't come up with a legitimate way to recreate the conditions under which we saw it happen19:20
fungiit would probably be a somewhat more manageable condition when we're not sitting in the hallway at oscon19:20
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jeblairi don't think we need logging in the allocator, but if we're missing logging of inputs to it, we should fix that19:21
fungii'm not generally a fan of "testing in production" but sometimes there aren't expedient alternatives19:21
ianwjeblair: in that case, I think https://review.openstack.org/#/c/109185/ is probably ok as is19:22
ianwit will error log if this negative condition comes about19:22
ianwwe could run with that and see if it comes up19:22
jeblairianw: it also masks the problem.  i may not be being clear.19:23
ianwmaybe we're actually over-allocating but don't notice at the moment?19:23
jeblairwe _should_ be able to reproduce the problem entirely from the production logs that we have19:23
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jeblairif we are unable to do so, we should correct the logging so that it logs the necessary information19:23
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jeblairand if that's the case (we are missing log info (remember, i think this is unlikely)), then i'd be okay with a testing-in-production approach to collect the missing data19:24
ianwalright, let me go through nodepool.py and i'll send a change later to bump up the logging so we can see if this is true or not19:24
jeblairbut otherwise, i think we should dig deeper into reproducing it out of production19:24
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ianwwhere are the production nodepool logs, can i see them externally?19:25
fungiianw: if you need additional info out of our production logs i can get them for you19:25
ianwok, thanks for the discussion.  we can move on and i'll look at at the log angle19:26
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jeblaircool, thanks19:26
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fungiright now only the image update logs are published externally, though we've talked about making service/debug logs available too19:26
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jeblair#topic Puppet 3 Master (nibalizer)19:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Puppet 3 Master (nibalizer) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:26
ianwfungi: thanks, that's what i thought.  if i can help with publishing the logs somehow, let me know19:27
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jeblairnibalizer: last i recall, there was some serious weirdness about what version of puppet was actually getting installed19:27
mordredjeblair: I had a radical thought re: puppet 3 and puppetmasters...19:27
mordredbut I can also hold off if you don't want radical thoughts in this meeting19:28
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jeblairmordred: the floor appears to be yours :)19:28
mordredjeblair: neat!19:28
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mordredjeblair: what if we stop using puppetmaster altogether19:28
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mordredthe only benefit we really get from it is secret data19:29
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mordredbut we're driving puppet runs from ansible now19:29
mordredso we could have ansible run puppet apply passing in secret data19:29
mordredno more care about puppet2 v. puppet3 masters19:29
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mordredonly puppet apply19:29
mordredwhich is easier to test too19:29
jeblairhow does it supply the secret data?19:29
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fungithe secret data filtering to only hand out the bits a given slave actually needs is a fairly significant feature19:30
mordreddrop in a runme.pp with just the host's chunk of site.pp in it with values populated, then run puppet apply on that19:30
jeblairand do the reports go through the puppetmaster, or do they go directly to puppetdb?19:30
mordredpuppetdb is a thing I'd need to come up with an answer for19:31
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mordredquesstion is - should I bother POC-ing an answer?19:31
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jeblairmordred: that sounds like a fair response to the compartmentalized secret data issue, though there are also secret data that are shared across many/all hosts19:31
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jeblairmordred: so we'd probably want something more sophisticated than "edit 72 files to add someone to sysadmins"19:32
mordredI believe I'm never going to want to do that19:32
nibalizersorry was cleaning kitchen19:32
* mordred throws wet cat at nibalizer19:32
nibalizerjeblair: yes there is whitespace in your preferences file19:32
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jeblairmordred: i'm intrigued19:32
jeblairnibalizer: it's not mine :)19:32
* nibalizer thwors the wet cat at apt19:32
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jesusaurusmordred: also what does this do to the "public hiera" plans for not-secret data?19:33
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nibalizerjeblair: haha, ThePreferencesFile19:33
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mordredjesusaurus: that shold work identically19:33
mordredsince the hard problem there was solving for making sure puppet apply worked19:33
fungiyeah, we can still stick hiera files on machines and have them refer to the contents19:33
mordredin this case, we'd move back to _only_ puppet apply needing to work19:33
jeblairnibalizer: is that fixed in config yet?  and have you spun up a node based on that to verify it works?19:33
nibalizeri spun up a trusty node and did the needful to it19:34
nibalizerverifed the error you had19:34
mordredjeblair: ok. I'll sketch up something more than 3 second of babbling in a meeting to see if it can work sanely19:34
nibalizerthen fixed it by fixing the white space19:34
nibalizermordred: puppetdb and puppet apply work pretty well together19:34
mordrednibalizer: sweet19:34
nibalizerpuppet apply nodes can report directly to the puppetdb server on what they've been doing19:34
mordredthat's even easier then19:34
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jeblairnibalizer: okay, so we're probably ready to take another stab at this.  i'm swamped now, but maybe later in the week.19:34
nibalizeralso you asked about hitting puppetdb api from the puppet master19:34
nibalizerwhich is super easy19:34
nibalizersince you can use the certs that the puppet master already has for cert auth19:35
mordredah - interesting19:35
mordrednibalizer: I will talk to you after meeting about that19:35
jeblairdo we currently allow anything to connect to puppetdb?19:35
mordredI'd like for our inventory plugin to talk to puppetdb instead of running puppet cert list19:35
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nibalizeri think puppetdb port 8081 (https) is open to just about everyone19:36
nibalizerof course, if you dont have a cert, well ... "no ticket"19:36
jeblairnibalizer: so puppetdb does cert verification against the puppet ca of nodes wanting to submit reports19:36
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jeblairmordred: so your idea would probably not eliminate the need for a puppet ca19:36
nibalizerplus ^^ if we're talking dangerous ideas we could actually shell out to hiera to collect the data to send to ansible to send to the nodes19:37
nibalizerrunning the puppetCA isn't a huge overhead, though19:37
fungiso we'd still need a puppet ca, but the server where it resides would no longer need to talk to other servers except to hand out signed certs when we launch new machines19:37
nibalizerpoint is, its less overhead that running our own CA?19:37
nibalizerjeblair: the clients will verify that puppetdb's cert has been signed by the CA as well19:38
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fungiwe could possibly even just move the puppet ca to the puppetdb server19:38
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jeblairfungi: i think it basically reduces the potential vulnerability of having the puppetmaster protocol network accessible19:38
nibalizerfungi: what goal are you trying to solve by moving the puppetca?19:39
jeblairfungi: probably best to keep it separate, and on the higher-security (less-services-running) but inaccurately named "puppetmaster"19:39
nibalizerat the end of the day the puppetca is just a folder19:39
nibalizerwe could move it to jeblairs laptop19:39
funginibalizer: only if we wanted to ditch the extra server19:39
nibalizeroh, i don't think thats possible in how im interpreting mordreds plan19:39
mordredwe still need the server there to run the out-bound ansible connections ...19:39
nibalizerplus a place to keep hiera data19:39
nibalizerand somewhere to figlet SCIENCE | wall19:39
nibalizercritical services19:40
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jeblairnibalizer: great, now we need to change the master password19:40
fungijeblair: well, if the puppet ca is only any longer used to identify slaves to the puppetdb service and vice versa, and doesn't actually get trusted to do things via the agent itself, then i'm not sure what we're protecting at that point besides a reporting channel;19:40
mordrednot solving for less servers - just _possibly_ giving us a slightly more flexible way to deal with things like puppet 2 -> puppet 3 -> puppet 419:40
mordredbtw - puppet 4 is coming ...19:40
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jeblairfungi: true, not much, but we need the other server anyway, so may as well keep it there19:40
nibalizerdun dun dun19:40
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jeblairmordred: it also eliminates a potential vulnerability19:41
fungijeblair: yep, if we keep the server, might as well leave the ca on it19:41
mordredjeblair: ++19:41
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jeblairmordred: (the connect to puppetmaster and trick it into giving you secrets vulnerability)19:41
mordredjeblair: bah. it would never do that! :)19:42
jeblairwhich is, incidentally, why we changed all of our creds due to heartbleed19:42
fungialso known as "release an openssl vulnerability poc and use up weeks of infra rood admin time"19:42
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jeblairokay, end of topic?19:43
jeblairalso, is pleia2 still away?19:43
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jeblair#topic  Replacement for docs.openstack.org (AJaeger)19:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Replacement for docs.openstack.org (AJaeger) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:44
jeblairAjaeger1: around?19:44
Ajaeger1yes, je19:44
Ajaeger1yes, jeblair19:44
jeblairso we brainstormed at the qa/infra sprint19:44
Ajaeger1thanks for talking about this in Darmstadt!19:44
jeblairand we came up with 2 ideas19:45
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mordredI prefer one of them19:45
jeblair1) docs jobs publish artifacts to swift (like we are starting to do with logs), then we write a simple zuul worker that fetches them and rsyncs them into location on a static webserver19:45
nibalizerjeblair: whe you get free time just ping me and we'll beat on p3 some more19:45
* annegentle waves too19:46
jeblairthat's a super simple system that gets us the ability to automatically delete files, but otherwise isn't too different from what we have now19:46
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jeblairit also should be fairly easy to implement once we work out the kinks in the log publishing19:47
jeblair(which we made substantial progress on in darmstadt)19:47
Ajaeger1So, for the rsync we need to do this on a directory by directory basis - with the projects publishing at separate times, e.g. infra-manuals to http://docs.openstack.org/infra/manual/ - this needs to be fine-granular enough.19:48
jeblairAjaeger1: yes, we'll be able to do that19:48
jeblairso basically, the infra manuals rsync job will take what the build job built and rsync it to the correct subdir19:49
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jeblairsimilarly, stable branch docs jobs will rsync to the stable branch subdir19:49
jeblairso we get the same kind of multi-version publishing we have now19:49
mordredjeblair: (we'll need to not delete branch subdirs when we rsync --delete)19:49
mordredbut yeah19:49
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jeblairmordred: yeah, i think the root of the rsync will be at the branch subdir19:50
mordredbut for the master rsync19:50
Ajaeger1We currently publish to e.g. /trunk/install-guide and /arch-design at the same time19:50
jeblairmordred: yeah, we'll need to special case that19:50
mordredyup. not hard - just mentioning it19:50
* Ajaeger1 doesn't remember enough about rsync options to see whether this handles all special cases but let's discuss that separately19:51
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Ajaeger1jeblair: what's option 2?19:51
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jeblairoption 2) is to use afs.  building and publishing actually get even simpler (it's just an rsync directly on the build host), but it requires an afs infrastructure which we don't have yet19:52
jeblairwe want that for several other reasons (including mirrors), so hopefully we'll have it at some point19:53
mordredone benefit of option 2 is that there are several _other_ things we'd also like to use that infrastructure for19:53
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portantemorganfainberg: here19:54
jeblairi'm not entirely sure we should hang docs publishing on that just yet though; i think we're probably closer to idea 1) in implementation, and there's actually a pretty good path from idea 1 to idea 219:54
morganfainbergportante, ah can i snag you in #openstack-keystone real quick?19:54
annegentlewhat's afs?19:54
fungiandrew filesystem19:54
* morganfainberg doesn't want to bug -infra types too much19:54
Ajaeger1annegentle: similar to NFS19:54
annegentleah ok19:54
fungi#link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_File_System19:54
mordredannegentle: it's a global distributed filesystem and it's teh awesome19:54
annegentlenamed after andrew, heh19:55
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funginamed after two andrews19:55
jeblairboth of them :)19:55
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jeblairanyway, i think the way to proceed is to let the log publishing settle out a bit, then work on the rsync worker and set up some test jobs on a server19:56
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Ajaeger1So, what would be the next steps? I suggest that I write up a few examples (should have done that before Darmstadt) so that you see how we publish today to check that rsync can be setup correctly for this.19:56
jeblairi'm not sure if we want to use static.o.o or make a new one (since static.o.o is getting fairly full)19:56
annegentleand the rsync solution, how do you solve the problem of "there are no files to serve even if for a second"19:56
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Ajaeger1annegentle: rsync can first sync new content and then remove old files.19:57
Ajaeger1annegentle: it will not delete a whole directory at once and then recreate and publish again...19:57
annegentleAjaeger1: ah, great, so ordered steps.19:57
fungiright, rsync is actually much safer than the current "overwrite files via ftp" model19:57
mordredannegentle: also, once we're on AFS, there is a really neat atomic volume publication feature that will avoid link moving race condition issues19:57
Ajaeger1annegentle: we can even run it twice: First sync over new content, second delete.19:57
annegentleAnd then, do we have any storage cost considerations? And what happens if it gets full?19:58
mordredAjaeger1: ++19:58
mordredannegentle: so far none of our clouds have said anything about cost ever19:58
Ajaeger1annegentle: Since we delete files directly, we should have less space issues ;)19:58
fungiat the moment we've got a 15tb cinder volume quota from rax, which we'll be emptying out soonish as we transition log storage to swift19:58
fungier, 25tb19:58
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annegentlemordred: well that's a relief :) just don't want to be an outlier, since images and html may be bigger than log files? (not by much really though)19:59
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jeblairi bet they'll be much smaller, actually :)19:59
fungiannegentle: trust me, they won't be ;)19:59
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annegentlejeblair: fungi: ok good!19:59
fungiwe have jobs uploading logfiles which are in the `00mb compressed range19:59
fungier, 100mb19:59
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mordredfungi: I think you were right the first time19:59
jeblairsometimes in the 00mb range too19:59
annegentleI think it sounds better than what we have! Which is the goal for starters. Thanks a bunch for all this, team infra.20:00
jesusaurus0mb, now theres some compression!20:00
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Ajaeger1jeblair: what time frame are we talking about and what would be the next steps besides my examples ?20:00
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anteayaoh look we are out of time20:00
annegentlejeblair: and can it be well before release crunch time :)20:00
Ajaeger1shall we continue discussing on #openstack-infra?20:00
jeblairi hope; let's regroup on the current log publishing status with jhesketh when he's around, then we can probably make an estimate20:00
jeblairthanks everyone!20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 29 20:01:02 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-07-29-19.01.html20:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-07-29-19.01.txt20:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-07-29-19.01.log.html20:01
ttxSo who is around for the TC meeting?20:01
mikal_Although a bit distracted20:01
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annegentleall right handed people in the house20:01
* mestery lurks20:01
* eglynn lurks also20:01
annegentleer. left?20:01
sdaguemikal: we're outside if you want to join us20:01
ttxmarkmc, devananda, vishy: around ?20:01
dhellmannannegentle: I'm left handed, but facing you20:01
dguerriis the openstack-infra meeting ended?20:01
russellbmarkmc sent regrets to the list20:02
ttxWe have quorum20:02
mikalsdague: where outside? In the courtyard?20:02
mordreddguerri: yes20:02
sdaguemikal: yes20:02
annegentleI'll just say I'm in the back row :)20:02
ttxrussellb: but I thought he would miss us so much!20:02
annegentledguerri: yes20:02
ttx#startmeeting tc20:02
russellbi'm sure he does.20:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 29 20:02:20 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
jaypipesmikal: look out the window20:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:02
dguerriI added a topic in th agenda 2 days ago :)20:02
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ttx(Long) agenda for today is:20:02
dguerriwas waiting to discuss fit-upstream stuff20:02
jeblairdguerri: a new meeting has started, please go to #openstack-infra20:03
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee20:03
ttx#topic Check progress on gap coverage plans (post-j2 edition)20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Check progress on gap coverage plans (post-j2 edition) (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
ttxAs promised after each milestone we review progress on gap coverage plans20:03
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ttxpromised eglynn we would do him first20:03
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Ceilometer_Gap_Coverage20:03
eglynnttx: thanks :)20:03
eglynnwell, we've had some some slippage from our target for completion of juno-220:03
ttxeglynn: but everything is under review?20:04
eglynndetailed in the strike-thru' on that wiki page20:04
ttxoh, not #520:04
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russellbhow do you feel about completing these by j3?20:04
ttxeglynn: could you elaborate on the javelin thing?20:04
russellblooks like good progress20:04
eglynnrussellb: confident20:04
ttxQA declining? Something we could help to solve?20:04
eglynnttx: grenade/javelin not yet being as solid as we thought20:04
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eglynn(so it's kinda closed to new features right now)20:05
ttxeglynn: still thinking it can make j3, or is it going to be more of a kilo thing ?20:05
jogoeglynn: javelin2 is working now, just needs a few patches to land20:05
sdagueyeh, it's taken up sometime to get the new javelin code working, so that's an upstream delay.20:05
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eglynnttx: definitely juno-320:05
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ttxok, this is taking more time than expected, but still looks doable in juno timeframe20:06
eglynnjogo: cool, so we'd be looking at the cdent's patch being landable within weeks?20:06
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eglynnttx: agreed20:06
ttxcomments on Ceilometer?20:06
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ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Neutron_Gap_Coverage20:06
ttxmestery: o/20:06
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mesteryttx: o/20:06
jogoeglynn: without looking to closely I *think* so20:07
russellbcan we hit status on each gap on this one?20:07
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mesteryrussellb: Ack20:07
eglynnjogo: great, thanks20:07
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mesteryGap0 is closed.20:07
mesteryWe finished the DB migration work during Juno-2.20:07
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mesteryGap1 will close at Juno-3, but we are at 100% API coverage, and the full job is now enabled as well (see mail threads)20:07
russellbrunning all tests now?20:08
russellband how about stability?20:08
mesteryrussellb: I believe that's the case yes, failure rate last I heard was < 5%20:08
mesteryrussellb: I can dig out salv-orlando's email in a bit20:08
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mesteryGap2 is underway now, on target to close at Juno-320:08
mesteryGap3 has a patch proposed, I think we can look to merge that one soon20:09
mesteryGap4 is complete20:09
mesteryGap5 is making good progress, and will be complete at Juno-320:09
russellbso last i looked, the code looked pretty far off20:09
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dhellmannwhat was the decision on the OVS question?20:09
russellbfeel confident it will be completed?20:09
mordredmestery: gap 5 mentions ovs20:09
russellband yes, that question20:09
mesteryrussellb: DVR?20:09
russellbyes DVR20:09
mesteryYes, it's for OVS.20:09
mesteryThe DVR code is in much better shape now.20:10
mesteryWe've had lots of core reviews on it, testing, etc.20:10
mordredwhat's the nova/neutron position on the ovs requirement?20:10
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russellbhaven't seen a thread on that, but we should have one.20:10
mesteryrussellb: Want me to start it?20:10
russellbyes please20:10
mesteryWill do20:10
markmcclainwell the OVS requirement may not be a must20:10
mordredwhat a sentence20:11
mesterymordred: Heh :)20:11
mordredit would still be good to know the relative opinion on requiring that20:11
markmcclainhaha… so linuxbridge will likely work just not a test path20:11
* mordred has no personal issues with OVS as a thing - but /me is not a nova core20:12
mesteryLets discuss in detail in the ML thread on that.20:12
annegentlewhat does "not a test path" oh... you mean you can't test linuxbridge? Er.20:12
russellbso, aside from lack of testing, no obvious technical reason it wouldn't work with linuxbridge?20:12
annegentleyeah I'd like to understand it too20:12
russellbok, yes, to the ML on that20:12
* devananda sneaks in late, lurks in the back20:12
jaypipesannegentle: just asked markmcclain the same thing :)20:12
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mesterySo, Gap6 is the one which is behind a bit.20:12
russellbit's all part of the "can we deprecate nova-network" issue ...20:12
* mordred throws gluten at devananda in punishment20:12
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jaypipesannegentle: he said it does not currently have a test plan in DVR patches20:12
annegentlejaypipes: ah ok20:13
mesterymarkmcclain and marun are discussing with nova cores this week is my understanding20:13
russellbyes, my impression of the migration plan thus far is not very good20:13
annegentleand DVR is just the team name or a TLA?20:13
sdaguethe dvr bits are super new as well20:13
russellbbut yes, i'm interested what progress is made this week20:13
mordredannegentle: "distributed virtual router"20:13
mikalrussellb: upgrade path is on the agenda for later today20:13
markmcclainthe migration plan has been kicked around in various directions20:13
russellbsdague: yes ... hard to call nova-network officially deprecated on merge day20:13
mesteryrussellb: We know we missed the nova spec deadline, and we're working to alleviate that.20:13
russellbmikal: cool20:13
mesterymarkmcclain: ++20:13
mesterymikal: Thanks!20:13
annegentlewhat not digital video recorder?!20:13
jaypipesannegentle: it's the multi-host functionality in neutron -- distributed virtual router. someone correct me if I'm wrong.20:13
mesteryannegentle: Ha!20:13
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markmcclainthe various ways we've been pointed haven't ended up in a good place20:13
russellbi personally feel it's too late for juno to rush something like that20:13
mesteryjaypipes: You're right :)20:13
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mesteryrussellb: The migration path?20:14
russellbdon't even have a plan, much less an implementation with some proven testing showing stability behind it20:14
annegentleokay and DVR is the "only" way to get multihost? or the one we've been going after for a while?20:14
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markmcclainrussellb: I don't know that we're actually rushing items20:14
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markmcclainwe have the opportunity to get a working path and then refine within the deprecation window20:15
mesteryannegentle: That's the plan of record, yes.20:15
mesterymarkmcclain: ++20:15
russellbmarkmcclain: well, i guess depending on what the plan looks like, looking for approval of plan and then implementation all for juno seems rushed this late, but i'd love to be proven wrong20:15
vishyo/ i just got off a plane and my connection is spotty20:15
mesteryWe've explored a few options around migration, and had some successes and some issues.20:15
annegentlewelcome vishy-from-a-plane20:15
mesteryFor closure here, Gap7 is ongoing and will close at the end of Juno20:16
mesterySo, Gap6 is the main concern here (migration).20:16
annegentlemestery: ok thanks20:16
russellbso gap 7 says document, but IMO, gap 7 is bigger than that20:16
mesteryannegentle: you're welcome :)20:16
russellbit also mentions scale testing, which is the bigger problem20:16
russellbhaving an open source problem that scales well (and we can show that it does)20:16
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* jaypipes feels Gap7 should be more descriptive/explicit...20:17
russellbjaypipes: agree with that20:17
mesteryrussellb: Agreed, the main issue has been finding resources for such scale testing20:17
mesteryrussellb: We've been reaching out to companies around this, it's a WIP to be honest.20:17
annegentleon the docs, I'd like more description so we can get more to help out20:17
russellbmestery: so any progress beyond just the docs part?20:17
jaypipesfor instance, what is "document open source scalability testing" really mean?20:17
sdaguemestery: is dvr going to be running on the default neutron jobs?20:17
mesteryrussellb: Nothing huge to report, it's taking time to find companies with resources.20:17
russellbso, my view of this gap was less about docs about more about having an open source option that we feel scales well20:18
mesterysdague: The sooner we can get that in, we can make that happen.20:18
annegentleI know of a few efforts - at the ops meetup in August, 3-4 of us getting together, and before that, a "swarm" in Australia for a networking guide, any of those matching up?20:18
ttxrussellb: maybe we need to have a specific topic on neutron/nova-network at the cross-project meeting?20:18
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mesteryrussellb: I think there was slight disconnect there :)20:18
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russellbttx: sure ... though i think we're wrapping up the status at least20:18
mesteryrussellb: But I do agree with your assessment around scale20:18
annegentleand if the focus should be "just document open source happy path" that's good for scope/focus/rallying troups who write20:19
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ttxI don't want to get into too much detail in the TC meeting, except recording the plan is now a bit more unlikely and needs to be further addressed20:19
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russellbttx: yep, sounds good20:19
annegentlemestery: any other docs efforts?20:19
ttxrussellb: so.. concerns about Gap6 and Gap7?20:19
ttxor more20:19
mesteryannegentle: emagana has an etherpad with what we need to do, it was shared in monday;s neutron meeting20:19
ttxand maybe Gap5?20:20
annegentlemestery: ok, I've edited that, so sounds like we know what we know20:20
russellbttx: primary concerns are with 5, 6, and 720:20
jaypipesso... hold up one sec20:20
mesteryannegentle: ack20:20
* russellb holds up20:20
jaypipessitting next to markmcclain and he is frustrated with lack of clarity and specifics around Gap6 and Gap720:20
jaypipesand frankly, after looking at the wiki, I share his concerns...20:20
* markmcclain was hoping to clear them up with nova team this week20:20
russellbi think there was much  more detailed discussion than ended up captured on this page ...20:20
jaypipesmestery: what is the status from Oleg on Gap6? any specific status from him?20:20
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ttx#info TC voices concerns about Gap 5, Gap 6 and Gap 7 -- further precisions needed20:21
mesteryjaypipes: The status is his BP didn't make the nova cut :(20:21
mesteryjaypipes: He's done some great exploratory work, but the final approach wasn't signed off by nova in time was my understanding20:21
jaypipesmestery: could we put a link in that wiki to the relevant specs or etherpads pls?20:21
russellbshall we take an action for a subet of folks to work on further clarity around expectations here?20:21
mesteryjaypipes: ++20:21
mesteryrussellb: Yes, please20:21
russellbi'm happy to assist.20:21
dhellmannrussellb: that's a good idea20:21
jaypipesmestery: just helps in getting the details about those gaps.20:21
mesteryjaypipes: yes, agreed20:21
ttxlet's expand on that during the cross-project meeting if that works for everyone20:22
mesteryttx: ++20:22
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ttxmoving to next20:22
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Trove_Gap_Coverage20:22
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russellb#action mestery to work on clarified definitions of gaps 6 and 7 and bring back to TC for review, (russellb will help)20:22
jaypipesmestery: so, on Gap6, it currently says "This work is currently being scoped.". Should that be "This work is scoped now in blueprint <LINK>".20:22
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mesteryjaypipes: Yes, that makes more sense.20:23
ttx3 first gaps on Trove still open20:23
SlickNikSo for trove we made really good progress on Gap 5 - it's now complete.20:23
SlickNik(Neutron support)20:23
ttxwith gap 2 and gap 3 moved from j2 to j320:24
SlickNikSo for gap 2 we finished up the API docs.20:24
ttxSlickNik: how confident are you for completion of those two by j3?20:25
SlickNikAnd we went through an exercise identifying where we have holes in the docs.20:25
SlickNikResults of that are at: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/trove-doc-items20:25
SlickNikI'm confident that we can address these in juno-3 (gap 2)20:26
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ttxdoc can be worked on post-j3 anyway20:26
annegentleSlickNik: yeah you've made good progress there20:26
ttxmore concerned about gap3 honestly20:26
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SlickNikGetting gap 3 done by j3 has become _my_ top priority.20:27
ttxdoes tat need more infrfa lova ? anything we can do to help?20:27
russellbgetting changes in upstream CI is less and less likely as we approach end of cycle20:27
russellbbased on history at least20:27
ttxI meant "does that need more infra love"20:27
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SlickNikttx: yes that would help20:27
ttxjeblair: ^20:27
jeblairthe linked change came in right before the infra-core world tour, so i expect none of us has had a chance to review it20:28
SlickNikBut they've been great so far :)20:28
SlickNikespecially clarkb, fungi, and jeblair20:28
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* fungi has not been great20:28
SlickNikIt's me who's had my plate somewhat full tackling the neutron gap.20:28
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russellbfungi: you're always great :)20:28
ttx#info TC expresses concerns about Gap 3, keep us posted on progress20:28
ttxOK, other remarks on Trove?20:28
SlickNikttx: Will do.20:28
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fungittx: "infra tough love"20:29
russellb<3 infra20:29
annegentleor lava20:29
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Horizon_Gap_Coverage20:29
clarkbtoo much going on20:29
ttxdavid-lyle: ohai20:29
SlickNikThanks guys!20:29
david-lylettx: o/20:29
david-lyleGap 1 is up for review20:30
ttxyeah, it's us slacking there20:30
ttxwill get it solved in 5 min20:30
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ttxdavid-lyle: you mean Gap 0?20:30
david-lyleyes, sorry, Gap 1 has slipped but is still targeted for Juno, losing confidence that is going to make Juno, big openstack.requirements change blocking20:31
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ttx#info Gap 1 unlikely to be closed within Juno timeframe20:31
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dhellmanndavid-lyle: have a link to the requirements change?20:31
ttxI think that's relatively fine, though20:31
ttxmore interested in getting Gap 4 covered tbh20:32
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annegentlesorry you all, I have to drop off now, but will catch up tonight20:32
ttxhow is that (gap 4) going?20:32
ttxannegentle: o/20:32
david-lyledhellmann: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97793/20:32
david-lylettx: we are making progress, but I don't know that it will be integrated into the gate in Juno20:33
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97793/20:33
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ttx#info Gap 4 might miss the target too20:33
david-lylein fact I imagine it won't as we get more functionality there20:33
ttxdavid-lyle: feeling confident on all the other ones, right?20:33
jeblairdavid-lyle: "The only code not already split is JavaScript and CSS that straddles both sides, this has been the main impediment for finishing the split. " refers to the xstatic packages?20:34
ttxOther comments on horizon?20:34
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jeblairdavid-lyle: and so that's the blocker for the toolkit/django repo split?20:34
david-lylejeblair: the xstatic packages are pulling out those common components20:34
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david-lyleyes, that's a blocker at this point20:35
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david-lylethere will be some repo work once that resolves, but that's the hardest part20:35
ttxI think that affects only Horizon though20:36
ttxso i'm relatively fine with it missing the mark20:36
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ttxok, glance20:36
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Glance_Gap_Coverage20:36
david-lylecorrect, but it will add an openstack requirement for the horizon_lib package20:36
ttxLooks like the only gap there missed the j2 mark20:36
* markmcclain approves 9779320:36
jeblairand may be a bit disruptive as we rework the gate structure for both repos20:36
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jeblair(but i'm very much looking forward to it!)20:37
ttxmarkwash: if you're arond, can you comment on having that gap covered in j3?20:37
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markwashwe had some effort around figuring out exactly where we need to change the image data bits in tempest20:37
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markwashbut then actually fixing it seems to have not had much progress20:38
markwashso I'm add the review right now20:38
markwashexpect it to be in gerrit within the hour20:38
ttxmarkwash: ok20:38
ttxCommenst on Glance?20:38
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ttx#topic Blessing Heat gap coverage plan20:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Blessing Heat gap coverage plan (Meeting topic: tc)"20:39
ttxHeat was under gap analysis at the last meeting20:39
ttxzaneb proposed the following plan:20:39
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Heat_Gap_Coverage20:39
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ttxThe last item still needs a date/owner20:39
ttxI assume it's a j3 item and that it will have an owner20:39
ttxWith that objection noted, I think it looks like a good plan20:39
ttx#info Gap 3 needs an owner and a target milestone20:40
ttx#info Other wise plan looks good, make it happen20:40
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ttxRemarks on that?20:40
ttx#topic Expand scope of the Identity program20:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Expand scope of the Identity program (Meeting topic: tc)"20:41
ttxdolphm: around?20:41
ttxSo that's two separate parts:20:41
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ttx* Expand scope of the Identity program to include auditing (https://review.openstack.org/109664)20:41
ttxThis one is about keystone adopting PyCADF and expanding the program scope to cover it, which I think makes great sense, as long as Keystone and PyCADF maintainers are fine with it20:41
ttx* Rename the "Identity" program (https://review.openstack.org/108739)20:41
ttxSo... This one raises an interesting question, which was also raised by Glance recently20:42
dhellmannwe talked about it at the oslo meeting, and the oslo-core and pycadf-core teams agree to the move20:42
ttxCurrently we are using the same term for the program name (i.e. the team name) and the "OpenStack name" of the main product20:42
dolphmdhellmann: ++20:42
ttxi.e. the Compute team produces Nova, also known as OpenStack Compute20:42
ttxbut with programs taking on multiple projects, we reach the limits of this system20:42
ttxSo I think we may need to divorce the team names from the OpenStack names.20:42
russellbttx: makes sense.20:42
ttxWe could add a line in there under "integrated-since:" that says "openstack-name: OpenStack Compute", and then be able to rename programs as we want20:42
ttxWhich solves the issue with marketing wanting to have a say on the "OpenStack names" we pick or rename20:43
mikalrussellb: yeah, I think nova will hit this in the next few releases too20:43
jeblairwhat would the nova/compute team want to rename themselves to if their product is still 'openstack compute'?20:43
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ttxjeblair: Nova is the counterexample, it would probably have the same term used in both places20:44
jeblairi'm just trying to get a handle on the issue :)20:44
ttxBut Glance or keystone...20:44
ttxjeblair: just look at https://review.openstack.org/10873920:44
mikaljeblair: we can discuss that later, but I think we might want to break the nova == compute relationship sometime in the future is all20:44
mikaljeblair: i.e. when we have a gantt project as well20:44
russellbi think this is a bit of an side from the reviews at hand ...20:44
jeblairmikal: gotcha20:44
mikalrussellb: agreeed20:44
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ttxKeystone can't be named "OpenStack Authentication, Authorization, and Audit"20:45
mikalIts more that I am interested in where the precident goes20:45
russellbttx: well I'm -1 on the rename, anyway :)20:45
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russellbI think Identity is just fine.20:45
ttxrussellb: but do you recognize it will become a problem as programs take on more projects?20:45
russellbit is concise, clear, and captures the primary mission.20:45
morganfainbergrussellb, i'm curious why you think identity is "fine" it really does not convey the program, what it encompasses, and where it is trending to go20:45
russellbmorganfainberg: it's your primary mission, for sure, right?20:46
morganfainbergrussellb, it isn't the *primary* focus anymore to be a source of identity, it is more of a source of authorization not authn20:46
sdaguerussellb: ++20:46
dolphmrussellb: the issue with "identity" is that providing a source of "identity" is our last priority20:46
russellbthe mission statement is for covering your full scope20:46
russellbnot the name of the program20:46
morganfainbergdolphm, ++20:46
sdaguemorganfainberg: yeh, but I think changing that name is more confusing than leaving it20:46
sdaguebecause there is inertia in understanding20:46
morganfainbergsdague, that is a better arguement imo20:46
russellbdolphm: i think that's splitting hairs ... it provides identity to openstack via some way ... it's the identity API20:46
jaypipeswe don't call the Compute program "The Compute, Containers, Bare-metal, Hypervisors, and Virtualization" program, either.20:46
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devanandanaming aside, perhaps I missed something. has the scope change been discussed, in terms of how it (does or does not) impact other programs?20:47
mikaljaypipes: that's a great idea. Not.20:47
dolphmrussellb: we abstract the identity problem away from openstack, for sure20:47
ttxrussellb: so you're arguing the issue may exist, but we are not hitting it just yet, since the program should not be renamed20:47
jeblairdevananda: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/109664/120:47
russellbttx: pretty much, yes20:47
ttxrussellb: ok, that's valid20:47
markmcclainjaypipes: s/and Virtualization/Virtualization and Kitchen Sink/20:47
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ttxlet's cross that bridge when we get there20:47
russellbttx: yes :)20:47
ttxA related question is whether we should just rename "programs" to "teams", because some people have been very confused by the "program" term, and think there is more to it than what it is (a team).20:47
ttxBut then chaging name is about as confusing20:48
devanandajeblair: right. saw that. adding a library to this program doesn't clarify to me how the responsibility of "auditing" is centralized in this program or distributed across all programs20:48
dhellmannwell, in the oslo program we have several teams, so I'm not sure that fits us20:48
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russellbttx: i'm neutral on that ... but agree that i've seen the confusion.20:48
dolphmdevananda: the scope change should not affect any other projects .. i was careful to choose "auditing" to include pycadf but not "accounting" which would overstep ceilometer and quota efforts :-/20:48
devanandajeblair: eg, measurements (ceilometer) is a single program which other programs must integrate with. is Auditing following that model?20:48
mikalttx: we only just picked "programs", let's stick with it for a while20:48
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russellbttx: question is, will time solve the confusion, or do we need to change20:49
dhellmannmikal: +120:49
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devanandadolphm: what is to be audited -- events within other projects/programs, right?20:49
russellbi'm inclined to stick with it for now (programs)20:49
dolphmdevananda: yes; we started with authentication & authorization events in keystone, for example20:49
ttxI think the discussion can continue on the review themselves20:49
ttxand be back on the agenda when we expressed ourselves there20:50
ttxi'll approve the first one in a few days unless somebody complain, it's just a project move and it's got noth PTLs approvals20:50
russellbttx: it's more than a project move though20:50
ttxThe second one sounds more funny than expected20:50
russellbttx: it also updates mission20:50
mikaldolphm: waitup one sec20:51
ttxah. Good point20:51
mikaldolphm: the pycadf code is a bit... weird20:51
ttxI'll wait for 7 YEs on there then20:51
markmcclainso can we require that pyCADF gets a revamp?20:51
mikaldolphm: are you committing to making it less odd?20:51
markmcclainthe code is somewhere between terrible and awful20:51
mikalmarkmcclain: it is intertaining20:51
russellbtell us how you really feel :)20:51
dolphmmikal: are you offering to propose a list of oddities to tackle?20:51
sdaguettx: ++20:51
mikaldolphm: not overly?20:51
markmcclaindolphm: have you read it?20:51
mikaldolphm: I do think it needs a spring clean though20:51
dhellmannit was designed by some guys who knew more about cadf than python. it's probably not optimal. do we need to trash it?20:52
russellbgap: make it suck less20:52
mikaldolphm: do you disagree with me?20:52
fungidid we have any outstanding plans for a security audit of pycadf? is it targeted for vmt support?20:52
dolphmmarkmcclain: not exhaustively20:52
sdaguemake it not be thinly translated java code20:52
dolphmmikal: i call it opinionated :)20:52
sdaguedolphm: like it wants to be java?20:52
ttxsdague: ew, that would be my definition of terriful. Translated from java code into Python20:52
fungiclearly that's a factory which builds audit factories20:53
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markmcclain#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/pycadf/tree/pycadf/event.py20:53
ttxhmm, the question of pycadf being awful is slightly orthogonal though, if both the current owner and the future owner agree to move it across20:53
devanandai'm unclear on how adding pycadf to keystone provides any auditing to openstack unless each project implements significant changes20:53
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ttxmaybe we should start a thread on pycadf awfulness and get some clear list on how to fix it?20:54
dhellmanndevananda: the keystone middleware will use pycadf to emit audit notifications20:54
russellbmarkmcclain: that hurts20:54
mikalttx: we should be tactful about it please20:54
jeblairmarkmcclain: okay, yeah that's a bit hard to read20:54
devanandadhellmann: I see, thanks20:54
ttxwe need a tactful person to present it20:55
ttxany volunteer?20:55
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dhellmannI really don't think it's appropriate for you guys to be trashing this code. As I said, the developers had a lot of domain knowledge. We expected to clean up the implementation over time.20:55
vishywtf setattr hell20:55
mikalI think markmcclain volunteered20:55
jeblairconsidering that it's middleware, how much do we really care about the api?20:55
jeblairer i mean the internal api20:55
morganfainbergjeblair, some projects use it directly, so the internal api does matter some20:55
mikaldhellmann: I agree, I think we can improve it without getting personal about it20:55
markmcclainmikal: ++20:56
mikaldhellmann: we've all written code we regret in the past20:56
sdaguejeblair: well, I think the question is maintainability if it's a core part of a project20:56
morganfainbergjeblair, but ... not sure if it's a huge deal (and can be cleaned up as we go)20:56
markmcclainI'd just like to see if be much more pythonic20:56
vishyits just unpythonic ut im sure the code is fine20:56
dhellmannmikal: and sometimes the not too distant past :-)20:56
ttxok, so no need to trash it20:56
mikaldhellmann: or the future20:56
mikalI am doing it now20:56
ttxand again, this discussion is a bit orthogonal to the issue20:56
ttxand we need to move on20:56
mikalttx: well, I do think we are asking if keystone can shepherd this forwards20:56
dhellmannmikal: you're in a weird time zone, your past might be my future20:56
jeblairttx: well, we're talking about a scope expansion, so i don't think it's entirely unrelated20:56
mikalttx: if that's a yes, then I'm cool with it20:57
ttxmikal: everybody seem to be happy for them to do so ?20:57
dolphmmikal: that's a yes20:57
mikaldolphm: then I am cool20:57
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ttxif dhellmann and dolphm are fine with transition I-m fine20:57
ttxfurther comments on the review!20:57
dhellmannI'm fine, and gordc (primary maintainer) is fine.20:57
markmcclaindolphm: thanks20:57
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ttx#topic Other governance changes20:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Other governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)"20:57
ttx* Add repository glance.store to glance (https://review.openstack.org/107585)20:57
ttxI'll need markwash to confirm he wants it in, then if nobody objects I'll approve it20:58
ttx* Adds the openstack/os-net-config to TripleO... (https://review.openstack.org/108745)20:58
ttxlifeless did approve it -- so I'll approve unless someone objects to it today20:58
ttx* Adding Horizon mission statement (https://review.openstack.org/102050)20:58
markwashttx: we're having a little discussion about that this week20:58
markwashttx: so hold off for at least two days :-)20:58
ttxStill one approval short on that last one20:58
ttxdhellmann agreed to disagree20:58
ttxso we just need another +1 and be done with it20:58
markwashhmm, should I add that note to the review?20:58
ttxmarkwash: yes please20:59
ttxwhen OK with it, add that you support it (+0)20:59
ttx#topic Cosmetic governance changes20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Cosmetic governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)"20:59
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ttx* Updates the Designate repo namespace to openstack/ (https://review.openstack.org/107395)20:59
ttxI'll approve this one now, it has enough approvals20:59
ttx* Sync programs.yaml with current gerrit repos (https://review.openstack.org/107690)20:59
ttxSo for this one, my goal was to find adopters for the remaining ones on the list... But at this point it's probably simpler to propose them as further changes20:59
ttxjeblair: I suspect you want a few of those in "infra"21:00
ttxmaybe just adopt them in a future change21:00
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ttx* use ">" to indicate multiline mission statements (https://review.openstack.org/109021)21:00
ttxrebases ahead! will approve once we get the previous ones in to avoid most of those21:00
ttx#topic Open discussion21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"21:00
ttxTwo things I wanted to quickly mention before we clsoe21:00
ttxgriff started a TC thread on "Block Storage abstractions in Cinder"21:00
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-July/000736.html21:00
ttxI'm not sure there is any meeting discussion/action for us to take on it21:00
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ttxIf you think otherwise, let me know21:01
jeblairgriff: oh you changed your name?21:01
jaypipesSpeaking of Java code masquerading as Python code...21:01
ttxIn other news, Ryan Lane resigned from the User committee21:01
ttxSince he was the nominee from the TC, Tim Bell asked us to nominate someone else21:01
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ttxSo please think about names which would make great representatives of OpenStack users -- then we can pick one and ask that person if they would be interested21:01
ttxAnything else, anyone ?21:01
anteayathanks to Ryan_Lane for all his great work21:01
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jeblairsad to hear that :(21:01
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ttxdiscussing names will be for a future meeting discussion21:02
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ttxThose interested in further digging into Neutron gap coverage progress, you can stay tuned as we'll tackle some of that in the cross-project meeting next21:02
ttxok, closing meeting in 30sec, famous last words21:03
jaypipesttx: re: the Cinder block storage abstraction...21:03
ttxjaypipes: yes?21:03
jaypipesttx: it also is Java code trying to be Python.21:03
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* jaypipes ecourages TC folks to review the code...21:03
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ttxcontribute to that thread with further thoughts.21:04
ttxThanks everyone21:04
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:04
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 29 21:04:09 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:04
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-07-29-20.02.html21:04
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-07-29-20.02.txt21:04
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-07-29-20.02.log.html21:04
ttxSorry been running late21:04
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ttxdhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, eglynn, markwash, jgriffith, mikal, zaneb, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: around ?21:04
* stevebaker IS zaneb21:04
ttx#startmeeting project21:05
openstackMeeting started Tue Jul 29 21:05:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:05
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:05
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)"21:05
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'project'21:05
ttxstevebaker: you looked familiar21:05
mikalBut also at a meetup so not super paying attention21:05
* devananda lurks, but is still semi-afk at the ironic meetup21:05
ttxAgenda for today is available at:21:05
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting21:05
stevebakerttx: this is not the PTL you're looking for21:05
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* stevebaker waves arm21:05
ttxjust added a topic based on the TC discussion21:05
ttx#topic News from the 1:1 sync points21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "News from the 1:1 sync points (Meeting topic: project)"21:05
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ttxWe had 1:1 syncs today for everyone but Nova, here is the log:21:06
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ttxSome plans are ambitious, some others very reasonable. We'll see where we stand in two weeks21:07
ttx#topic Other program news21:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Other program news (Meeting topic: project)"21:07
ttxInfra, QA, Docs... anything you'd like to mention ?21:07
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ttxjeblair, mtreinish, annegentle ^21:07
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dhellmannI'm behind on email, but there should have been an announcement for a new oslo.utils library earlier today.21:07
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jeblairhave folks seen the message from sean and i about testing changes we're proposing?21:08
* dhellmann makes a note to read up21:08
notmynamejeblair: yup. sounds great IMO21:08
ttxyep, read and commented21:08
ttx(and hijacked)21:08
stevebakerI've started the work to move tempest orchestration scenario tests to be the heat functional tests, which means heat-slow will need to become heat-functional21:08
jeblairfunctional testing++ is a big takeaway there21:08
jeblair#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-July/041057.html21:09
eglynnjeblair: /me wonders about the timescales envisaged for that switch to in-tree functional tests?21:09
stevebakerI'm not sure if I'm jumping the gun there, but am more than happy for heat to be the first here21:09
eglynn... and the sequencing WRT the libification of tempest21:09
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eglynnjeblair: are we looking at this switch as a juno thing? (... or more with an eye to kilo?)21:10
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jeblaireglynn: that's a good question; some projects are already heading in that direction: swift and neutron for starters21:11
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jeblairi think we need to polish a bit on the infra side and a bit on the projects side to get a good pattern for others to follow21:11
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jeblairi'd guess that we'd expect to see a good pattern in place by juno, and maybe push harder for wide adoption in kilo21:12
eglynnjeblair: well it would be good to have a small number of solid exemplars in place initially, to avoid too much divergence/duplication of effort when the other projects follow suit21:12
jeblairbut that's just a guess21:12
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jeblairsdague may have thoughts too21:12
eglynnjeblair: that sounds like a reasonable enough goal21:12
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markwashso we keep being kind of interested in refactoring our functionalish testing in glance21:12
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stevebakerneutron has a functional job already?21:13
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markwashI'd be interested to have somebody 'splain me what kind of testing changes we ought to consider21:13
sdaguejeblair: yeh, I think that's the right cadence21:13
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jeblairstevebaker: yes, there's a neutron func test21:14
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stevebakerjeblair: ok, I shall use that for conventions for the heat-slow replacement21:14
mesterystevebaker: marun is our functional testing champion21:15
eglynnmarkwash: IIUC the focus initially will be on moving stuff out of Tempest (as opposed to, out of the existing in-tree tests)21:15
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stevebakermestery: ok, thanks21:15
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markwashokay cool, /me reads up on the email again21:15
jeblairstevebaker: we're still working through some infra issues on it (i need to help marun fix the sudo stuff)21:15
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markwashfwiw I think this effort, esp how it revolves around devstack, would be really fantastic for us21:16
clarkbjeblair: its fixed21:16
clarkbjeblair: I figured it out yesterday. sorry if that wasn't advertised21:16
markwashsince we could add functional tests for uncommon but supported configurations21:16
dhellmannjeblair: while we're on testing, is the cross-project unit stuff still on your radar?21:16
jeblairclarkb: ha!21:16
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clarkbjeblair: we weren't running devsdtack with neutron enabled so the sudo rules for neutron rootwrap were not installed21:17
markwashwithout adding unnecessary gating load21:17
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jeblairdhellmann: i'm just really behind on reviews because of all the traveling21:18
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stevebakermarkwash: heat has similar issues, I wonder if we could have a bunch of experimental jobs which run the functional tests against unusual configurations21:18
fungidhellmann: i have that one up in a tab in my browser and keep not making progress on it. hopefully rsn21:18
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dhellmannjeblair: understood, but I thought there was some second-thinking going on, too, so I wanted to double check21:18
jeblairdhellmann: oh, hrm, i thought we were just executing the plan from the summit21:19
jeblair(and the spec was just documenting that with complete sentences)21:19
dhellmannjeblair: maybe it's just sdague who has second thoughts, then21:19
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ttxOK, I think there is lots of excitement around this, but I think the discussion can continue on the mailing-list, unless someone has the killer question21:20
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jeblairhrm, the spec for it has a +2 from me and no -1s; lifeless had some comments21:20
ttxthe one that shall not be answered on the mailing-list21:20
dhellmannjeblair: ok, this was on irc, so maybe it wasn't strong enough to warrant a change in vote -- I assumed you 2 had talked at the sprint21:20
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dhellmannjeblair: just saw lifeless comments, so I'll get back to that next week when I return from vacation21:21
jeblairdhellmann: i don't recall discussing this with sdague; so either we have not, or my brain has overflowed :)21:22
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dhellmannjeblair: :-)21:22
jeblair(i'd give that even money)21:22
ttxok, anything more on that topic ?21:22
sdaguethis didn't come up there, it was a busy week with other things. And honestly right now it's the meetup here, so need to pay attention in this room. Maybe an ML thread would be better21:22
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dhellmannsdague: if you have comments, please leave them on the review in progress21:23
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ttx#topic Nova/Neutron migration and other Neutron gaps21:24
*** openstack changes topic to "Nova/Neutron migration and other Neutron gaps (Meeting topic: project)"21:24
ttxSo at the TC meeting just before we looked at progress on the Neutron gap coverage plan:21:24
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Neutron_Gap_Coverage21:24
ttxThere are concerns on gap 5, gap 6 and gap 721:24
mesteryttx: For some of this discussion, markmcclain and I have been talking, and it may be best to postpone until after this week's nova mid-cycle21:24
mesteryttx: A lot is going on right now in that room in fact :)21:24
ttxok, that makes sense21:24
russellbfine with me.21:25
mesteryrussellb: I still want to sync with you later this week around this though.21:25
russellbthough we do need to add more detail to 6 and 7 to make sure expectations are the same all around21:25
russellband 5, really21:25
mesteryrussellb: +1, that's what you and I can take a cut at.21:25
markmcclainrussellb: ++21:25
mesteryAnd then we can share next week21:25
russellbmestery: yep, sounds good.  i'm out friday, part of thursday21:25
mesteryrussellb: Sounds like we're on for tomorrow :)21:25
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russellbmestery: yep21:26
ttxOK, and if we need to talk about it at the next meeting, just add it to the agenda21:26
mesteryttx: ack21:26
ttx#topic Open discussion21:26
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markwashquick say something so ttx can't go to sleep21:27
ttxAll: the TC will have to pick a new nominee for the User committee to replace Ryan Lane. If you have great users that would make awesome dev-friendly reps for the user committee, please communicate names to your nearest TC member21:27
ttxAnything else, anyone ?21:27
ttxmarkwash: FAIL21:27
ttxtime to get creative21:28
russellbhow do you define locality to TC members21:28
markwashstare directly at the sun21:28
ttxrussellb: alphabetically21:28
ttxthough some hash would make it more DHT21:28
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dolphmin other news, keystone might revert it's default back to UUID tokens https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/135000021:29
jeblairrussellb: kevin bacons21:29
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1350000 in keystone "UUID is a more friendly default token provider than PKI" [Wishlist,Triaged]21:29
* SergeyLukjanov likes using hash21:29
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ttxdolphm: i would only consider it because you snatched a round bug number21:30
markwashthe proof of work on that bug number is impressive. 4 zeroes!21:30
dolphmttx: oh wow. lol21:30
russellbyeah nice bug number21:30
jeblairi too have no substantive comments other than feeling the bug number is friendly21:30
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ttxdolphm: I don't have enough energy left to bitch about going back and forth and how lame that makes us look21:31
russellbi'd be interested in the performance differences between the two, but trust you and the team's judgement21:31
markwashdolphm: how about when we figure out how to make keystone use kerberos to authenticate token creation, we teach other services to use kerberos too and forgo tokens altogether?21:31
russellbmarkwash: zing21:31
jeblairmarkwash: ++21:31
dolphmttx: that's why i've tried to hold on to pki - i didn't want to switch back. i'm ready to give up though21:31
stevebakeris hashed PKI an option?21:32
jeblairmorganfainberg: ^ fyi21:32
dolphmmarkwash: we're always discussing alternatives to bearer tokens21:32
morganfainbergjeblair, i'm watching21:32
dolphmstevebaker: sure, but that negates the purpose of PKI and you might as well use UUID for less effort21:32
ttxdolphm: do we ahve any idea what users use there ?21:32
russellbah, so token revocation events deals with the original perf problem with polling when using UUID tokens ...21:33
morganfainbergttx, mostly UUID21:33
dolphm ^^21:33
ttxThe change is backward-compatible though so I guess that's OK -- youwould still support PKI tokens21:33
dolphmttx: and continue to improve support for PKI tokens, which as it turns out, has improved our support for UUID at the same time21:34
dolphmin terms of UUID performance, etc21:34
markwashdolphm: sorry for any snarkiness21:34
ttxISTR PKI was originally introduced to reduce load on keystone server21:34
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ttxby letting service autovalidate21:34
ttxis that no longer true / no longer an issue?21:35
markwashbut seriously, the time when we drop the keystone IdP (or make it its own thing) might be an opportunity to rethink the authn and high level authz story21:35
morganfainbergmarkwash, that is an active discussion even now.21:35
dolphmmarkwash: ++21:35
markwashhow can I join such discussion?21:35
markwashI've been slogging through some of this stuff privately21:35
markwashsorry glance21:35
morganfainbergmarkwash, hang out in #openstack-keystone, join our meetings.21:35
morganfainbergmarkwash, but mostly #openstack-keystone and ML21:35
dolphmdreamy stuff like that has mostly been in IRC and out-of-session summit get-togethers21:36
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ttxwell, that kept me awake for sure21:37
ttxNow I won't be able to sleep ;)21:37
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morganfainbergdolphm, PKIZ_<base64-encoded-5k+-encoded-nightmare21:38
dolphm >21:39
markwashphew, closure21:39
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:39
openstackMeeting ended Tue Jul 29 21:39:40 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:39
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-07-29-21.05.html21:39
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-07-29-21.05.txt21:39
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-07-29-21.05.log.html21:39
ttxthanks everyone!21:39
russellbthanks, ttx !21:39
eglynngood night all!21:40
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