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| yamahata | hi | 05:00 |
|---|---|---|
| vishwanathj | hello | 05:00 |
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| bobmel | Hi | 05:00 |
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| yamahata | #startmeeting servicevm-device-manager | 05:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 5 05:01:07 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'servicevm_device_manager' | 05:01 |
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| yamahata | today Karthic is absent | 05:01 |
| yamahata | #topic Announcement | 05:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcement (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:01 | |
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| yamahata | our proposal for openstack summit is here | 05:02 |
| s3wong | hello | 05:02 |
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| yamahata | #link https://www.openstack.org/vote-paris/Presentation/introducing-tacker-service-vm-project | 05:02 |
| yamahata | Let's promote it | 05:02 |
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| yamahata | Bob may want to fulfil his bio | 05:03 |
| vishwanathj | FYI: i voted 3 stars for it | 05:03 |
| bobmel | s3wong: Hi | 05:03 |
| yamahata | #action bobmel fulfil the bio | 05:04 |
| s3wong | bobmel: hello - seems like you aren't using bmelander today :-) | 05:04 |
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| yamahata | I uploaded WIP code for l3 routervm | 05:05 |
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| yamahata | #link https://github.com/yamahata/neutron/tree/l3-routervm/neutron l3 routervm WIP code | 05:05 |
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| yamahata | It's not yet ready for review. | 05:05 |
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| bobmel | Yamahata: where do I update bio? | 05:05 |
| yamahata | Probably only interesting code is https://github.com/yamahata/neutron/blob/l3-routervm/neutron/services/l3_router/vrouter/l3_vrouter_plugin.py | 05:05 |
| yamahata | https://github.com/yamahata/neutron/blob/l3-routervm/neutron/services/l3_router/vrouter/l3_vrouter_driver.py | 05:05 |
| yamahata | bobmel: Login the rfp page, then you'll find your bio page | 05:06 |
| yamahata | #link https://www.openstack.org/summit/openstack-paris-summit-2014/call-for-speakers/ login page for call-for-proposal | 05:06 |
| bobmel | yamahata: ok, thanks | 05:07 |
| yamahata | I still working on l3 routervm plugin code. | 05:07 |
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| yamahata | Sorry delay for api review. I'll do it today | 05:08 |
| yamahata | #topic open discussion | 05:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:08 | |
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| yamahata | anything to discuss? | 05:09 |
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| yamahata | I'd like to raise the issue of auth token in neutron context | 05:09 |
| yamahata | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111756/ patch to add auth token to neutron context | 05:09 |
| yamahata | Does it help? | 05:10 |
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| yamahata | Although just admin account would be used for simplicity for now, in future we'd like to use per tenant token or something | 05:11 |
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| yamahata | Seems no idea. Anyway it doesn't harm. I'll just push the patch. | 05:13 |
| yamahata | Another topic is attach/detach interface to/from vm | 05:13 |
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| yamahata | Last week, we discussed a bit. But Bob wasn't there. | 05:14 |
| yamahata | On behalf of router-interface-attach or plugging driver, we need to interface-attach/detach to vm. | 05:14 |
| bobmel | yamahata: yes, it could be useful. We currently use admin to a void the issue. | 05:15 |
| yamahata | it should be done by servicevm server, not neutron server. | 05:15 |
| bobmel | yamahata: you mean the servicecm | 05:16 |
| yamahata | bobmel: thanks, that encourages me. So I try to make it for Juno. | 05:16 |
| yamahata | bobmel: yes. | 05:16 |
| yamahata | So I'm thinking of servicevm api like /device/<deviceid>/attach/detach-interface | 05:16 |
| yamahata | oops attach-interface or detach-interface | 05:17 |
| yamahata | body includes {"port_id": <neutron port id>} | 05:17 |
| bobmel | yamaha: sorry, typo, you mean service VM server makes the call to add/remove vif to service VM? | 05:17 |
| yamahata | bobmel: Right. | 05:17 |
| yamahata | the api eventually calls nova attach/detach interface with neutron port id | 05:18 |
| yamahata | bobmel: Does it make sense for you? | 05:18 |
| bobmel | yamahata: ok | 05:18 |
| yamahata | Or plugging driver should handle it? | 05:18 |
| hemanthravi | can a vif be added after the vm is launched? | 05:18 |
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| yamahata | hemanthravi: Yes | 05:19 |
| s3wong | hotplug? | 05:19 |
| hemanthravi | not all os's support hotplug | 05:19 |
| yamahata | s3wong: yes, pci hot plug | 05:19 |
| yamahata | guest OS support is another story | 05:20 |
| hemanthravi | properly | 05:20 |
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| bobmel | yamahata: well, the operation needed to plug a logical service instance, e.g., neutron router, to a Neutron network/subnet, depends on what mechanism is used. | 05:20 |
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| bobmel | Vif hotplug is on such mechanism. | 05:20 |
| yamahata | bobmel: Do you mean plugging driver? | 05:21 |
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| yamahata | bobmel: If so, I agree. we need to tell service | 05:21 |
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| bobmel | yamahata: in our implementation we tried to capture that in what we call a plugin driver. | 05:21 |
| yamahata | bobmel: can you be more specific? Hopefully which code? | 05:22 |
| bobmel | yamahata: one plugging could then handle case with vif hotplug, another could handle case with plugin capable of VLAN trunking all the way to the VM, etc | 05:23 |
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| bobmel | yamahata: The code submitted for review contains a plugging driver for VLAN trunking case (as supported by the Cisco N1kv plugin). | 05:24 |
| yamahata | bobmel: I see. A sort of abstraction will be necessary. i.e. plugging driver in your case | 05:24 |
| yamahata | _get_unused_service_vm_trunk_port ? | 05:25 |
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| bobmel | yamahata: yes, that's what we tried to achieve. Perhaps the abstraction needs to evolve but it can handle VLAN trunk case and vif hotplug case. | 05:26 |
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| yamahata | bobmel: Agree, the abstraction will be evolved from simple cases. | 05:27 |
| bobmel | yamahata: that's an internal function in the VLAN trunk case, the interface is in the __init__ file in the plugging driver directory | 05:27 |
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| yamahata | anything else to discuss? | 05:29 |
| bobmel | The driver interface is here: #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101002/12/neutron/plugins/cisco/l3/plugging_drivers/__init__.py | 05:30 |
| yamahata | thank you everyone. see you next week | 05:30 |
| bobmel | Ok, bye! | 05:30 |
| s3wong | Thanks! | 05:30 |
| yamahata | bobmel: thanks. Now I know where I should look at. | 05:30 |
| yamahata | #endmeeting | 05:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 05:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 5 05:30:57 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 05:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-08-05-05.01.html | 05:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-08-05-05.01.txt | 05:31 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-08-05-05.01.log.html | 05:31 |
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| sc68cal | who is ready for some ipv6? | 13:58 |
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| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 14:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 5 14:00:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 14:00 |
| baoli | Hi | 14:00 |
| sc68cal | baoli: hi\ | 14:01 |
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| sc68cal | #info Juno-3 milestone is less than a month away | 14:02 |
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| sc68cal | Looks like xuhanp isn't on yet | 14:04 |
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| HenryG | xuhan is on vacation this week | 14:04 |
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| sc68cal | ah, ok | 14:05 |
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| sc68cal | I don't have an agenda for today's meeting, so I'll just turn to open discussion | 14:06 |
| sc68cal | We've done a real great job getting things landed into Juno | 14:07 |
| HenryG | Made some progress on the devstack patch for radvd. I think it should get approved this week. | 14:07 |
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| HenryG | Then I can finish up the functional tests | 14:07 |
| sc68cal | HenryG: fantastic | 14:08 |
| baoli | yea, a lot of good work in Juno | 14:08 |
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| baoli | I'm trying to make progress on the floatingip bug I opened up | 14:08 |
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| baoli | I'd like to discuss how to tackle it when we have more attendence. | 14:09 |
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| sc68cal | baoli: perhaps a ML post? | 14:09 |
| baoli | sc68cal, yea, I can start with that. | 14:10 |
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| sc68cal | Ok, cool | 14:11 |
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| sc68cal | Do we have any new BPs to discuss? any new business? | 14:13 |
| HenryG | Not that I am aware of. | 14:14 |
| baoli | not from my side | 14:14 |
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| sc68cal | ok, then I'll give everyone back 45 minutes | 14:17 |
| sc68cal | I'll be in #openstack-neutron as well as the mailing list, if anything comes up | 14:18 |
| HenryG | thanks, bye | 14:18 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 14:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:18 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 5 14:18:20 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:18 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-08-05-14.00.html | 14:18 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-08-05-14.00.txt | 14:18 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-08-05-14.00.log.html | 14:18 |
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| bauzas | tic tac toc | 15:00 |
| n0ano | bauzas, you're too eager :-) | 15:00 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 5 15:00:46 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:00 |
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| bauzas | well, timezone difference maybe ^^ | 15:00 |
| n0ano | Anyone here to talk about the scheduler? | 15:00 |
| bauzas | \o | 15:01 |
| n0ano | bauzas, BTW, according to my timestamp, I started exactly at 1500 :-) | 15:01 |
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| bauzas | (17:00:46) n0ano: #startmeeting gantt | 15:01 |
| mspreitz | moi | 15:01 |
| bauzas | bonjour | 15:02 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:02 |
| n0ano | jeez, 46 seconds, and I thought I was compulsive :-) | 15:02 |
| mspreitz | this is the scheduler group, man | 15:02 |
| n0ano | mspreitz, good point | 15:03 |
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| n0ano | OK, in a vain attempt to get serious, let's start | 15:03 |
| bauzas | yeah, you have 60 secs accepted | 15:03 |
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| n0ano | #topic mid-cycle meetup recap\ | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "mid-cycle meetup recap\ (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:03 | |
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| n0ano | detailed log at the launchpad page\ | 15:04 |
| n0ano | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/juno-nova-mid-cycle-meetup | 15:04 |
| bauzas | summary ? | 15:04 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:04 |
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| n0ano | Tues morning was the discussion about gantt | 15:04 |
| n0ano | my take was... | 15:04 |
| n0ano | 1) scheduler lib code being approved... | 15:05 |
| n0ano | 2) DB isolation spec exception approved... | 15:05 |
| bauzas | \o/ | 15:05 |
| Yathi | great job guys! | 15:05 |
| n0ano | 3) Jay wants to move resource claims out of compute and into scheduler, need a specific proposal from him before we know if we should gate the split on that... | 15:06 |
| bauzas | well, my understand was a bit less enthusiastic :) | 15:06 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: yeah, wiorking with yjiang on that | 15:06 |
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| bauzas | scheduler-lib and isolate-sched-db are on their way, that's it :) | 15:06 |
| n0ano | 4) n0ano needs to ask on the mailing list if other projects are good about splitting out gantt (neutron said yes at the meetup, containers enthusiastic about it)... | 15:06 |
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| n0ano | I think those are the big points that I took away, bauzas & jaypipes you were there, anything to add? | 15:07 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: nope, that's a good summary | 15:07 |
| bauzas | I wish I would have been there, but Graham Bell helped me a lot | 15:07 |
| jaypipes | heh | 15:08 |
| bauzas | nah, I'm OK with the summary, as I said, work is on-going, more to investigate for the RT move | 15:08 |
| Yathi | we need to talk to Cinder folks about their enthusiasm for gantt and unified scheduling etc | 15:08 |
| n0ano | jaypipes, you're working with yjiang on the resource stuff, do you know when you'll have a BP posted? | 15:08 |
| n0ano | bauzas, Yathi +1 | 15:09 |
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| jaypipes | n0ano: chatting with him this afternoon about it. | 15:10 |
| n0ano | jaypipes, so soon, hopefully, that's all we can ask for | 15:10 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: yes | 15:10 |
| bauzas | maybe an etherpad can help you ? | 15:10 |
| * bauzas loves the etherpads, eh | 15:10 | |
| jaypipes | bauzas: yeah, will create one and fill some stuff in from our conversation | 15:10 |
| Yathi | jaypipes: I would love to be part of that discussion | 15:11 |
| bauzas | sure, my point was just to overview the basic things before having a spec to review :) | 15:11 |
| n0ano | bauzas, +1, I like small groups to do the work, we can review what you come up with | 15:11 |
| jaypipes | Yathi: no. no discussion for you! one year. | 15:11 |
| jaypipes | Yathi: j/k :) will ping you when I find yj later today | 15:12 |
| Yathi | :) | 15:12 |
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| Yathi | jaypipes: sounds good | 15:12 |
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| n0ano | jaypipes, remarkably good impression of the Soup Nazi on IRC :-) | 15:12 |
| n0ano | anything else to say about the meetup? | 15:13 |
| jaypipes | n0ano: :) | 15:13 |
| Yathi | n0ano: other thing to add - was another Soup Nazi treatment for solver scheduler stuff at the mid-cycle meetup :) | 15:13 |
| Yathi | Solver Scheduler discussion and spec pushed for Kilo - until after Gantt | 15:13 |
| * mspreitz wonders what Soup Nazi is | 15:13 | |
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| n0ano | mspreitz, Seinfield reference, American pop culture strikes again | 15:14 |
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| n0ano | Yathi, yeah, sorry about that, but it's a big change for late in the cycle, you'll have to push early in Juno I think | 15:14 |
| bauzas | +1 | 15:15 |
| n0ano | anyway, moving on | 15:15 |
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| Yathi | n0ano: +1 yup.. will be more aggressive | 15:15 |
| n0ano | Yathi, the term is `assertive`, not aggressive :-) | 15:16 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:16 |
| n0ano | #topic forklift effort | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "forklift effort (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:16 | |
| bauzas | \o | 15:16 |
| Yathi | :) OK! | 15:16 |
| bauzas | sooooo | 15:16 |
| n0ano | really, it's finalizing the two outstanding BPs | 15:16 |
| bauzas | scheduler-lib is waiting reviews | 15:16 |
| n0ano | scheduler lib is waiting for reviews, do we need to get assertive on that? | 15:16 |
| bauzas | well, tbh, we're having a reviewers bandwidth issue | 15:17 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy gave previously a +2 on it, but it needed rebase due to Extensible RT merge | 15:17 |
| bauzas | unfortunately, ERT was reverted, so I reverted also my patch | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: RT got reverted though right? | 15:18 |
| n0ano | yeah, I'm not too concerned, I'll be at the nova meeting this week, if they talk about review patches I'll bring this one up | 15:18 |
| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: yeahn, situation went back to normal | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | bauzas: cool, thanks | 15:18 |
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| bauzas | johnthetubaguy: ie. both ERT patch and sched-lib patch went back to their previous states | 15:18 |
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| bauzas | so, if ERT goes merged before sched-lib, the latter will require a rebase | 15:19 |
| n0ano | bauzas, and vice versa | 15:19 |
| bauzas | n0ano: yeah, life is sometimes hard | 15:20 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:20 |
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| n0ano | we'll see who wins the race, hopefully you | 15:20 |
| bauzas | atm, ERT is in a winning position | 15:20 |
| bauzas | one +2 vs. zero | 15:20 |
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| n0ano | we'll see, the race is not over | 15:21 |
| n0ano | anyway, I think scheuler lib is well in hand | 15:21 |
| bauzas | correct | 15:21 |
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| n0ano | for DB isolation, we have one +2 on the spec, I think we need another one right? | 15:21 |
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| bauzas | isolate-sched-db is having one +2 | 15:21 |
| bauzas | yeah, need to ask ndipanov | 15:21 |
| bauzas | as he's the 2nd sponsor | 15:21 |
| bauzas | if you all look at https://review.openstack.org/89893, you'll see there are 3 workitems | 15:22 |
| n0ano | I would feel comfortable starting the coding given that it's unlikely the spec will change dramatically between now and final approve, what do you think bauzas | 15:22 |
| bauzas | #1 is the instance group thing, a patch is provided : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/110043/ | 15:23 |
| bauzas | #2 is aggregates thing | 15:23 |
| bauzas | #3 is instances thing, I'm on my way for writing a patch on this | 15:23 |
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| bauzas | should be done by today or tomorrow | 15:23 |
| bauzas | so, #2 could be done based on #3 | 15:23 |
| bauzas | n0ano: you expressed interest in coding #2 ? | 15:24 |
| n0ano | I believe that tian is willing to do #2, I'll ping him to make sure he's up for that | 15:24 |
| bauzas | n0ano: sure | 15:24 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I can propose you and tian to wait for patch #3 | 15:24 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: so we'll propose an identical way | 15:25 |
| bauzas | n0ano: should not require a dependency in between #2 and #3 tho | 15:25 |
| n0ano | he's in Shanghai so he won't be able to look at it until tomorrow so basing on #3 should be fine | 15:25 |
| bauzas | as I'm basing my work on ERT | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | I'm creating another resource for instances | 15:25 |
| bauzas | and another one for instance's flavors | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | that's it for me | 15:26 |
| n0ano | sounds good, we'll see what you come up with for #3 and go from there | 15:27 |
| bauzas | ok cool | 15:27 |
| n0ano | I think we're good on the forklift status so moving on | 15:27 |
| bauzas | +1 | 15:27 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:28 | |
| Yathi | bauzas: if you want me to take a task item, let me know.. I might have some bandwidth | 15:28 |
| bauzas | Yathi: well, atm, we should be good | 15:28 |
| n0ano | Yathi, I think we're covered but we'll keep you in mind | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | Yathi: that's more likely a rewiewing bandwidth that we need | 15:28 |
| n0ano | anything new anyone wants to raise today? | 15:29 |
| bauzas | yep | 15:29 |
| Yathi | bauzas: yup I am already reviewing all these gantt patches at the moment.. | 15:29 |
| bauzas | don't know if sahid is there ? | 15:29 |
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| bauzas | there is a Juno BP that has been accepted | 15:30 |
| bauzas | lemme find it | 15:30 |
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| bauzas | gotcha | 15:32 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/85399/ | 15:32 |
| * n0ano that BP must be well hidden | 15:32 | |
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| bauzas | yeah, Gerrit searches suck | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | this BP is validated for Juno and possibly impacting isolate-sched-db | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | so, that's more likely a FYI | 15:32 |
| bauzas | I'm on my way to sort this out with sahid | 15:33 |
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| n0ano | I missed this, I'll have to review the spec | 15:33 |
| bauzas | nah, the spec is merged | 15:33 |
| bauzas | :D | 15:33 |
| mspreitz | wow, that BP is news to me... title makes it look like toes in deep water | 15:33 |
| n0ano | personal review, not formal voting :-) | 15:33 |
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| * mspreitz needs to read and think ab out that spec | 15:33 | |
| bauzas | anyway, as I said, we just need to sync our work | 15:33 |
| n0ano | mspreitz, what he said | 15:33 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, well, if you're in contact with sahid that's about all we can do right now | 15:34 |
| bauzas | correct, as I said, it was a FYI | 15:34 |
| bauzas | that's it for me | 15:34 |
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| n0ano | cool, anything else? | 15:35 |
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| n0ano | OK, hearing silence, I'll close and we can all go off and do some real work :-) | 15:35 |
| n0ano | tnx everyone | 15:35 |
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| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 5 15:36:06 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-08-05-15.00.html | 15:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-08-05-15.00.txt | 15:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-08-05-15.00.log.html | 15:36 |
| bauzas | thanks :) | 15:38 |
| bauzas | n0ano: and thanks again for the bridge setup :-) | 15:38 |
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| Yathi | bauzas: any new patches you write, can you please add me as a reviewer, I will know that way the work items for review | 15:41 |
| bauzas | Yathi: sure | 15:41 |
| Yathi | bauzas: the more I review, I will be able to push patches for gantt and ease your workload too :) | 15:41 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:41 |
| Yathi | bauzas: my hands are itching to write code for Gantt :) | 15:41 |
| Yathi | bauzas: I mean.. desperately waiting to write scheduler code.. being assertive :) | 15:42 |
| Yathi | like how n0ano pointed out! | 15:42 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:42 |
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| Yathi | bauzas: will catch you later.. signing off now.. bye | 15:43 |
| bauzas | Yathi: sure | 15:43 |
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| uberj | meta-q83 | 15:51 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 5 16:00:43 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:00 |
| primeministerp | Hi everyone | 16:00 |
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| primeministerp | virmitio: hi tim | 16:01 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: hi tavi | 16:01 |
| ociuhandu | hi all | 16:01 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: hello | 16:01 |
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| primeministerp | luis_fdez: hi luis | 16:01 |
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| alexpilotti | hi there | 16:02 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: hey there | 16:02 |
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| primeministerp | quite the quorum today | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | no vijay | 16:02 |
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| primeministerp | so some updates on active devel work | 16:02 |
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| primeministerp | #topic cinder smb3 support | 16:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cinder smb3 support (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:03 | |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: you're up | 16:03 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: smb3 status? | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | sure | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | so as usual we’re at full steam here | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: as expected | 16:04 |
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| alexpilotti | on teh CInder side we already committed the SMB patches since a while | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | fetching them 1sec | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: manilla as well? | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | in case some additional volunteers would fancy a review ;-) | 16:04 |
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| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106046/ | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106057/ | 16:05 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: awesome thx | 16:06 |
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| alexpilotti | so we’ve been asked to rebase teh SMB work on top of another patch | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | nasically an NFS refactoring that reduces some common code | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | and we have to wait for that patch to merge before ours are taken into considerations | 16:06 |
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| alexpilotti | I’ve been assured that this should happen soon | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:07 |
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| primeministerp | on that note | 16:07 |
| alexpilotti | Cinder anyway is not Nova, so usually there are no review bandwidth issues that affect us | 16:07 |
| primeministerp | #topic cinder ci iscsi/smb3 | 16:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cinder ci iscsi/smb3 (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:07 | |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: where's the automation stand for the cinder tests | 16:08 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: we have the image prepared | 16:08 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: and the scripts | 16:08 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: we’re waiting to clear out the licensing issues | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: which | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: I'll deal w/ that | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | now | 16:09 |
| ociuhandu | windows storage server license | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | in the lab we currently should have any issue | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | i have keys | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | if to be used | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | er to be used | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | on a bigger scale | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | if we need a kms | 16:09 |
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| primeministerp | or something else | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | I can look into that today | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | and get it resolved today | 16:10 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: alsoi take into account that the license key will be activated for each test | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: fair enough | 16:10 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: that can be an issue we were waiting for an answer on (and also the actual license to be used) | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: can you send me an email with the explict requirements | 16:10 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: needed for the license and any other reqs | 16:11 |
| ociuhandu | as far as i know the key might have issues if it is being activated more than a certain number of times | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: i'll push some buttens today | 16:11 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: sure thing | 16:11 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: thx | 16:11 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: also can we use the same image for both? | 16:11 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: both what? | 16:12 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: smb and iscsi | 16:12 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: iscsi and smb? | 16:12 |
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| primeministerp | yes | 16:12 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: yes we can | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | perfecto | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: also can we deploy on iron using ironic yet? | 16:12 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:13 |
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| ociuhandu | primeministerp: we also have a few nodes set aside for these tests | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: which? | 16:13 |
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| ociuhandu | not iron but cinder CI | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: can we use iron? | 16:13 |
| ociuhandu | so we will not mix the kvm nodes for cinder with the ones for nova and neutron, for the moment | 16:13 |
| primeministerp | i.e. how much ram can we squeeze in | 16:14 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: at the moment we are using kvm, we can discuss about iron later on | 16:14 |
| ociuhandu | well, from our tests we can squeeze the windows image in about 2 to 3 Gb | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: given our ram issues iron would be better | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: and we can hard set those to pxe | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: if we wanted to use ironic | 16:15 |
| ociuhandu | primeministerp: given the existing hardware I would not reinstall them so often | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: well neither would i but it would give us a cleaning cycle | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:16 |
| ociuhandu | and also I would not rely on one windows per node as if that node fails we have bigger problems | 16:16 |
| ociuhandu | the nodes we have are with 32 Gb ram | 16:16 |
| ociuhandu | so quite a lot of instances per node | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: we can probably deal w/ numbers | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: i can't give you ram until RR is done | 16:16 |
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| primeministerp | ociuhandu: anyway | 16:16 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: nova? | 16:17 |
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| alexpilotti | out of the BPs that got approved | 16:17 |
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| alexpilotti | all the code is up and ready | 16:18 |
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| alexpilotti | and one BP merged already | 16:18 |
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| alexpilotti | spceifially: | 16:18 |
| alexpilotti | # https://review.openstack.org/#/c/108662/ | 16:18 |
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| alexpilotti | # https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111291/ (this one needs a rebase) | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: ok | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106717/ | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | these are the patches for approved BPs waiting to be merged | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | there’s quite a lof of additional stuff that will be proposed the day in which K opens | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:20 |
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| alexpilotti | the SMB Nova part in particular | 16:20 |
| alexpilotti | as anyway it cannot be reviewed until it merges in Cinder, which makes sense | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: btw we didn't discuss the manilla part | 16:20 |
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| alexpilotti | yep | 16:20 |
| alexpilotti | manilla is our list for K | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | #topic manilla | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: are the blueprints and such in place for that work as well | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | th eoriginal plan was to get stuff in Cinder and Nova for SMB during J | 16:21 |
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| alexpilotti | and discuss Manilla in K | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | but of course plans need to revised :-) | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | that's good enough for me now | 16:22 |
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| primeministerp | anything else to note for nova? | 16:22 |
| alexpilotti | on the backports side | 16:22 |
| alexpilotti | we had backports waiting review for more tha 120 days | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | after raising the issue, things got faster | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | we got around 10 patches merged for Havana | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | and 1 for Icehouse | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | good | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | thanks for catching that | 16:24 |
| alexpilotti | np | 16:24 |
| alexpilotti | beside that we have a few bugs in the works | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | #topic olso/service bus | 16:24 |
| alexpilotti | so | 16:24 |
| alexpilotti | we have a BP spec up for review | 16:24 |
| primeministerp | great | 16:24 |
| alexpilotti | ]to add an RPC backend for the Windows Server Service Bus | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: do you have links? | 16:25 |
| alexpilotti | basically the component used on Azure is also available on premise | 16:25 |
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| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/109863/ | 16:25 |
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| alexpilotti | in a nutshell, this allows to replace RabbitMQ or Qpid with the servcie bus | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | this is awesome | 16:26 |
| alexpilotti | which is an important use case for WIndows based scenarios | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | yep | 16:26 |
| alexpilotti | waiting for review ATM | 16:26 |
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| alexpilotti | as soon as we have green light we commit the code | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | great | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: the code is currently complete? | 16:27 |
| alexpilotti | under dev | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | i knew that, how far out? | 16:27 |
| alexpilotti | by the time the specs are approved we’ll publish it unless there are issues | 16:27 |
| alexpilotti | 1 week of work | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: great | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | ATM we’re waiting on it giving priority to the CInder and Nova bits | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: those are definately more important atm | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: anthing else? | 16:28 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: needing a specifc topic | 16:28 |
| alexpilotti | shoudl we discuss OVS? | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | o yes | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | #topic ovs on hyperv | 16:29 |
| alexpilotti | we are currently merging our port with VMWAre’s work | 16:29 |
| alexpilotti | everything is documented on the OVS ML | 16:29 |
| alexpilotti | issues are available at #link https://github.com/openvswitch/ovs-issues/issues | 16:30 |
| alexpilotti | and every Tue, 1 hr after this meeting we have a meeting on #openvswitch | 16:30 |
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| alexpilotti | to discuss the various tasks | 16:30 |
| alexpilotti | it’s atechnical meeting, mostly related to kernel development | 16:31 |
| alexpilotti | but it’s also a good palce to discuss about strategy and features | 16:31 |
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| alexpilotti | from a higher level perspective | 16:31 |
| primeministerp | very important part of the whole process | 16:31 |
| alexpilotti | so, things are rolling pretty well to say so | 16:32 |
| primeministerp | so we're on target for good things in Paris | 16:32 |
| alexpilotti | ah Paris! | 16:32 |
| alexpilotti | please vote for our sessions! | 16:32 |
| alexpilotti | one sec, fetching the links | 16:32 |
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| alexpilotti | OVS session, presented by Justin from VMWare and myself: #link https://www.openstack.org/vote-paris/Presentation/new-platforms-with-open-vswitch-docker-hyper-v-and-intel-dpdk | 16:33 |
| alexpilotti | Windows Heat and Juju workshop: #link https://www.openstack.org/vote-paris/Presentation/deploying-windows-workloads-with-heat-and-juju | 16:34 |
| alexpilotti | competition for getting a session spot is becoming very fierce, so every vote counts! :-) | 16:34 |
| alexpilotti | BTW we’ll have all the Cloudbase ATCs in Paris | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | #link http://www.openstack.org/vote-paris/Presentation/enabling-openstack-for-multi-hypervisor-support | 16:35 |
| alexpilotti | around 20 people | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: great | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: it will be good to meet everyone | 16:35 |
| alexpilotti | so a great opportunity to meet and discuss features and implementations | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | I'm not entirely sure who's going from our side | 16:35 |
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| primeministerp | I know of at least 4 | 16:35 |
| primeministerp | and that's not on my team | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | on that note | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | I don't have anything else | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: ociuhandu virmitio luis_fdez ? | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | me neither | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | if not i'm ending | 16:36 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | tx folks! | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp luis_fdez see you! | 16:37 |
| ociuhandu | thanks guys, bye | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:37 |
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| ayoung | KEYSTONE! | 18:00 |
| hrybacki | ! | 18:00 |
| marekd | EHLO | 18:00 |
| marekd | what's on plate today? | 18:00 |
| kwss | hi | 18:00 |
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| ayoung | I think we keep arguing about PKI tokens | 18:01 |
| henrynash | and hello to you too | 18:01 |
| bknudson | dolphm: said he wasn't going to be able to make it | 18:01 |
| ayoung | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 18:01 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:01 |
| gyee | \o | 18:01 |
| bknudson | that wiki is looking a little weird | 18:02 |
| marekd | bknudson: ++ | 18:02 |
| bknudson | I blame henrynash | 18:02 |
| marekd | \o/ | 18:02 |
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| henrynash | i do too | 18:02 |
| gyee | morganfainberg, I may be zoning in-n-out as I have to attend another meeting at the same time :) | 18:02 |
| hrybacki | o/ | 18:02 |
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| dstanek | o/ | 18:02 |
| ayoung | gyee, we won't notice a difference | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | #startmeeting Keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 5 18:02:53 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:02 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | ok so a relatively short agenda today | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Reviewing code | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviewing code (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:03 | |
| morganfainberg | #link http://dolphm.com/reviewing-code/ | 18:03 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, where is "Items we were arguing about last meeting that we didn't resolve?" | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, you said dolphm wasn't going to be making it? | 18:03 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: y, he posted in irc | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, add it to the end of the agenda? | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | ok so Dolph wrote a cool blog post about reviewing code | 18:04 |
| bknudson | some kind of family emergency | 18:04 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg, link? | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, *nod* | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | ^^ | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | #link http://dolphm.com/reviewing-code/ | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | oops | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | That is "why" | 18:04 |
| morganfainberg | it's worth a read. | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | I think we need a "how" | 18:04 |
| ayoung | Code reviews suck | 18:04 |
| ayoung | and I suck at code reivews | 18:05 |
| ayoung | a couple points: | 18:05 |
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| ayoung | if you are going to -1 for a nit. Don't | 18:05 |
| henrynash | north> | 18:05 |
| ayoung | Fix it and resubmit | 18:05 |
| ayoung | or shut up | 18:05 |
| marekd | ayoung: ++ | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, east | 18:05 |
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| bknudson | here's a review checklist -- https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReviewChecklist | 18:05 |
| ayoung | obviosuly, the first is preferable | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ReviewChecklist | 18:05 |
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| ayoung | second...run through the code. Ideally in a debugger | 18:06 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so is that preferabe? Would some peopel object to you doing that? | 18:06 |
| ayoung | nothing quite like seeing how the code works | 18:06 |
| ayoung | henrynash, would you? | 18:06 |
| henrynash | ayoung: no, but I am always concerend that people take time to grow the thick skins needed to survive in an open source envornment | 18:06 |
| ayoung | henrynash, if its a real nit, then fix it. If the origianly author has an issue with that, they can revert, or they can accept | 18:06 |
| morganfainberg | ideally follow the checklist | 18:06 |
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| bknudson | requiring the reviewer to submit the fix creates a higher barrier to reviewing. | 18:07 |
| dstanek | ayoung: especially for newcomers i'd rather give them the change to fix the nit and feel like a part of the process | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ | 18:07 |
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| dstanek | s/change/chance/ | 18:07 |
| ayoung | We.kill.progress. | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, no we don't. | 18:07 |
| ayoung | We are not good at this | 18:07 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, we need to use our best judgement on when to submit a fix covering a nit and when not to | 18:08 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, we need to start saying yes | 18:08 |
| ayoung | not always | 18:08 |
| ayoung | but a hell of a lot more than we do | 18:08 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, i actually disagree | 18:08 |
| topol | o/ | 18:08 |
| gyee | yes! | 18:08 |
| henrynash | ayoung: we do need to educate people a little then on how to take the change that someone else updated to your patch, typical newbie practice probaly wouldn;t know how to do that | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, ++ better than i coudl have said it | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | (and beat me to the typing) | 18:09 |
| stevemar | henrynash, i didn't think that was an issue | 18:09 |
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| stevemar | but yeah, i guess it would be | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | but the point is valid, don't hesitate to fix a nit if it really is the reason holding up a patch and you can afford to do so, at the very least make sure you clearly mark it as a nit if it is one. other reviewers can override +1/+2 if it's only nits | 18:10 |
| henrynash | agreed | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | there shound't be a requirement to fix nits though (on the reviewer) | 18:10 |
| ayoung | I think, also, that if a core fixes a nit, you should still be comfortable +2ing it | 18:10 |
| ayoung | not just +1 | 18:10 |
| ayoung | maybe get the origianl author to +1 before you +a | 18:11 |
| henrynash | ayoung: ++ | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i'd rather defer that call to dolphm but i don't have an issue with it. | 18:11 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, I want to clear the Queue of client changes. | 18:11 |
| dstanek | i don't mind the +2, but i wouldn't +A something that i pushed | 18:11 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: we just need to make sure that submitters realize we’re helping, not implying they don’t know how to fix their code right | 18:12 |
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| henrynash | dstanek: + | 18:12 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, I'd +a it after someone else saw it, either the origianl author or another core | 18:12 |
| stevemar | morganfainberg, then we run the risk of deferring too much to dolphm | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, no i mean policy | 18:13 |
| stevemar | oh you meant the actual rule change.. | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, yes | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, not each review :) | 18:13 |
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| stevemar | yep, my bad | 18:13 |
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| henrynash | morganfainberg: naaah, assign every review that has a nit to dolph | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, it's ok you're on holiday. | 18:13 |
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| morganfainberg | ok i think we've covered most everything here | 18:14 |
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| ayoung | we've 10 core now. That should mean that things move faster, not slower | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, and it has picked up some speed | 18:14 |
| dstanek | ayoung: are things moving slower? | 18:14 |
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| morganfainberg | by view it has improved since we added lbragstad | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | We have two full pages of server reviews and a full page of client reviews. For the middleware we have half a page | 18:16 |
| bknudson | we do seem to be getting more submissions too | 18:16 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, and a bunch of those reviews have been WIP/not touched on jenkins failures. | 18:16 |
| bknudson | the specs process has also slowed things down, maybe? | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, it has | 18:17 |
| ayoung | Yep. | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, we also have some reviews that are pending specs. | 18:17 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, yeah. | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | code talks as topol likes to say, so spec is up, so is code | 18:17 |
| bknudson | since we're expecting a spec to be approved and we're maybe not reviewing those with enough urgency | 18:17 |
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| jamielennox | ++ i still haven't seen approval/denial of my specs to start doing actual implementation | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | the specs also don't see a fast turn-around on comments from the spec authors | 18:18 |
| jamielennox | with a blueprint i'd have code in to prove it by now | 18:18 |
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| morganfainberg | i frquently look at specs and see a bunch of the comments and no follow up from the author | 18:18 |
| ayoung | yeah, specs not really what I want | 18:18 |
| ayoung | I want a backlog and code | 18:18 |
| ayoung | specs are just busywork | 18:18 |
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| morganfainberg | lets defer the spec specific topic. | 18:19 |
| henrynash | ayoung; I disagree | 18:19 |
| ayoung | especially when you post something to get a sense of the rightness of solution and people start attacking grammar | 18:19 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: yes, i don't even bother with those | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, specifically changing the spec workflow | 18:19 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, henrynash specs as documents are a good tool. but specs as fodder for bikeshedding is not | 18:20 |
| henrynash | ayoung: on grammar, i do agree! | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | it is a topic we do need dolphm around for imo, so we can follow up witht hat either in -keystone or next meeting, but i don't think anything we do today will change this week | 18:20 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I would prefer it if the specs were designed to be the final documentation | 18:21 |
| henrynash | (someone needs to explain the bikeshedding analogy to me, doesn’t work in the UK) | 18:21 |
| ayoung | not the design | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, bikeshed.org | 18:21 |
| ayoung | design should be light and fast, and we should switch to code | 18:21 |
| bknudson | it's probably too late for juno, how about we have a proposal for specs for kilo? | 18:21 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: ahh, all is revealed... | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | OK...back to "how to do a decent code review" | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i think if we did what Nova did and have specs open up for the cycle a bit beforehand (so they can be approved pre-<cycle>-1 start) would help a lot | 18:22 |
| henrynash | ayoung: agree on teh design side…….and the key things about specs for me is “Is this a sensible thing we want to be doing” | 18:22 |
| ayoung | I thinkgertty is a key piece | 18:22 |
| ayoung | it makes it really easy to do "local checkout" | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, lets leave specific tools out of this. | 18:23 |
| ayoung | and I would request that all of you to try it out | 18:23 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, no, this is important | 18:23 |
| ayoung | it doesn't have to be gertty, buit it helps | 18:23 |
| dstanek | ayoung: gertty isn't great yet | 18:23 |
| marekd | ayoung: link? | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, no telling folks to use a specific workflow is wrong. | 18:23 |
| ayoung | you can do it using next-review or whatever | 18:23 |
| dstanek | git review -d # | 18:23 |
| ayoung | #link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/stackforge/gertty/tree/README.rst | 18:23 |
| marekd | ayoung: ty | 18:23 |
| ayoung | gertty is rough, I'll admit | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i find gertty to be insufficient atm. it breaks far too much and is too early development | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | it's cool, but it's not primetime ready yet | 18:24 |
| ayoung | but the low barrier to check out might be its killer feature | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, git review -d #reviewnumber | 18:24 |
| ayoung | also an option | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | about the same barrier to entry | 18:24 |
| ayoung | whatever works for you, so long as you run through the cdoe with a debugger | 18:24 |
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| ayoung | and...that is the real pain point | 18:24 |
| ayoung | using a debugger with eclipse or pycharm is trivial | 18:25 |
| ayoung | for the vi users...not so mucjh | 18:25 |
| ayoung | much | 18:25 |
| bknudson | good luck running through the federation code with a debugger... all I have to do is setup apache and mod_shib and a saml provider! | 18:25 |
| dstanek | everyone could use 'next-review' and 'git review -d #' and i think that would be enough | 18:25 |
| ayoung | anyone have any advice | 18:25 |
| ayoung | bknudson, funny you should say that | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, ++ | 18:25 |
| ayoung | I have a method for remote debugging HTTPD WSGI code now | 18:25 |
| ayoung | I need to complete the blog post | 18:25 |
| ayoung | but I will; do so | 18:25 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: yeah, pydev :-( | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, unfortunately one of the few options | 18:26 |
| marekd | pdb | 18:26 |
| ayoung | dstanek, is there a standard way to remote debug without an IDE for python? | 18:26 |
| dstanek | i use rpdb right now so that i can use real debugging tools | 18:26 |
| marekd | fo vi users.... | 18:26 |
| ayoung | marekd, link? | 18:26 |
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| bknudson | rpdb?? | 18:27 |
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| morganfainberg | #link https://pypi.python.org/pypi/rpdb/0.1.4 | 18:27 |
| marekd | ayoung: * pdb for users ;/ | 18:27 |
| dstanek | i debug usually in vim, but sometimes in winpdb | 18:27 |
| bknudson | neat | 18:27 |
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| dstanek | i won't install eclipse on principle | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, lol | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, not a bad principle imo | 18:27 |
| ayoung | dstanek, I hear you. and maybe rpdb is the answer there | 18:27 |
| dstanek | i think winpdb hasn't been updated in a while and unless you really like vim you probably don't want to follow me into vimpdb | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | marekd, I assume its :run a listener, run your code, your code attaches to listener at breakpoint? | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | ok, sorry to stop us here, but we have some other topics we need to address | 18:28 |
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| marekd | ayoung: i simply go the the code, add pdb.set_trace() and tun the code... | 18:29 |
| ayoung | fair enough | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | we can talk specific tools and howtos in blogs and outside of the meeting if no one minds | 18:29 |
| ayoung | #action marekd to write up using rpdb for Keystone | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Federated users have no domain in token | 18:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Federated users have no domain in token (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:29 | |
| ayoung | #action ayoung to write up using pydevd for Keystone | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, o/ | 18:29 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:29 |
| marekd | ayoung: i didn't mention rpdb. | 18:29 |
| morganfainberg | stevemar, since you wrote the patch for this, i'll let you lead | 18:29 |
| stevemar | o thx | 18:30 |
| ayoung | #action dstanek to write up using rpdb for Keystone | 18:30 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: ++ | 18:30 |
| stevemar | basically a bunch of things (like non-persistent token model, and middleware) depend on the 'user' portion of the token having a 'domain' section | 18:30 |
| stevemar | but we don't have that in federation issue tokens | 18:30 |
| stevemar | we had 2 ideas to solve this | 18:31 |
| stevemar | 1) add a dummy domain of 'federated' | 18:31 |
| ayoung | bleh | 18:31 |
| stevemar | or 2) add the idp id | 18:31 |
| ayoung | YAY! | 18:31 |
| henrynash | stevemar: and this is the domain the user is supposed to be owned by? | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, correct | 18:31 |
| stevemar | henrynash, correct | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | OK, my thought was that idp == domain id is the degenerate case | 18:31 |
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| stevemar | neither will work if you query /v3/domains/{domain_id} | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | 3) fix auth_token / client / etc to not care | 18:32 |
| ayoung | in a more complex case, one Idp could support multiple domains | 18:32 |
| stevemar | right, thx morganfainberg | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: ++ | 18:32 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: which is a cross-project task I guesss ;/ | 18:32 |
| bknudson | we could make a dummy domain work | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | what is the value to user_domains in the federated case? | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | marekd, potentially and could affect external consumers of the token | 18:32 |
| bknudson | well, we could make a idp_id domain work, too. | 18:32 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: exactly. | 18:32 |
| jamielennox | or in general i guess, why can't they be optional? | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | if userid always leads to domain id, we will just be punting on the problem in auth token | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, because we have sucked at documenting the token format, and we have a few special case formats. | 18:33 |
| ayoung | if you create an idp, you get a domain to go with it | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, we should define the format of the token and ensure that it conforms. | 18:33 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, which only works in the SQL assignment backend at the moment | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, you *could not* do that with ldap assignment | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | ok, so let's document this correctly, lets and ['user']['idp']['id'] rather than try and stick it into domain | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | s/and/add | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, we already have OS-FEDERATED:idp | 18:34 |
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| morganfainberg | jamielennox, most optional items are OS-XXXXX:<something> | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | in the token iirc | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, LDAP should be treated like any other IdP | 18:35 |
| jamielennox | ok, so it would seem to me that should be enough and we just say that domain id is optional | 18:35 |
| henrynash | ayoung: ++ | 18:35 |
| ayoung | so the domain id would go in the domain table for LDAP | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, ldap assignment not ldap identity | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | morganfainberg, LDAP assignement can be hacked to make it work | 18:35 |
| ayoung | its already sick and twisted, you wouldn't even notice | 18:35 |
| henrynash | stevemar: so I assume tt would be obvious to someone procesing token data that this was a federated user so to not expect a domain? | 18:36 |
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| stevemar | henrynash, well i hope so | 18:37 |
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| ayoung | OTOH morganfainberg if we explicitly said that IdP id == domain id, we could change the verbage over time so that IdP replaces domain when talking about users and groups, | 18:37 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: that seems worse than just fixing it, because we want a domain to just be a top level project eventually | 18:38 |
| ayoung | so...we could say that on a token we accept either domainid or idp id, and they are treated equivalently? | 18:38 |
| bknudson | I thought hierarchical multitenancy was taking over domains | 18:38 |
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| stevemar | IMO sticking the idpId and the 'federated' dummy key word - are basically the same solution, neither will actually do the token any good | 18:38 |
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| marekd | henrynash: i think they should not know what method was used to get a *scoped* token... | 18:38 |
| henrynash | jamielennox: I think actually domain-ness becomes an attribute of a project - i.e. one that allows users & grousp to be owned at that level | 18:38 |
| bknudson | so I'm wondering why we need the domain id in the token? | 18:38 |
| ayoung | henrynash, yes, but right now, domains own users. That is what we want to transition | 18:39 |
| bknudson | so it can be used in policy? | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | stevemar: right, because if you put idp-id into the domain field then you need to figure out whether it's a real domain id or something else | 18:39 |
| bknudson | (is this the nova identity v3 support work?) | 18:39 |
| ayoung | so...can we remove the domain id for all users then? | 18:39 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: sure | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, it's for revocation reasons, e.g. disabling a domain (only option i can think of, may not be a good *enough* option) | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | henrynash: ok, but either way i don't think we want to transition the name in that way then | 18:39 |
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| bknudson | y, we'd need it for revocation... but we could handle revocation of idp since we do have the idp in the token | 18:40 |
| henrynash | ayoung: pretty sure we use domain in prolicy rules | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | It will once again mess up revocation events, but we are used to that | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, right. | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, we do, no one else really does afaict | 18:40 |
| jamielennox | does this mean that we make idp-id a top level concept? | 18:41 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, of course they do | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | assign an id to SQL and LDAP backends | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, in policy? | 18:41 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, yeah | 18:41 |
| bknudson | jamielennox: it does seem like idp/federation should be a core concept. | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, which project does? | 18:41 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, maybe not the other core projects, but end users | 18:41 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, the user's domain? | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: i think bits of it definetly should be, and IDP id would be one | 18:41 |
| ayoung | people are doing unspeakable things out there | 18:42 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: wel, it’s about the only way you can create an idea of a “cloud admin”…i.e. users in a special domain with a given role get more powers that others | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, right, keystone absolutely uses it | 18:42 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so no, I don’t think we can remove domain_id | 18:43 |
| ayoung | "I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe..." | 18:43 |
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| bknudson | so I think we solved it | 18:43 |
| * ayoung blinks | 18:44 | |
| ayoung | we did? | 18:44 |
| bknudson | there was a lull so I assumed that meant we'd solved it | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, lol | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | so the best option sounds like federated users don't get domain_ids and we fix everything else? | 18:45 |
| ayoung | "lost in time, like [small cough] tears... in... rain. Time..." | 18:45 |
| jamielennox | agreed | 18:45 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: I agree | 18:45 |
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| marekd | +++++ | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | blah | 18:45 |
| henrynash | bknudson: you were right, master | 18:46 |
| ayoung | either everyone gets it | 18:46 |
| ayoung | or no one | 18:46 |
| dstanek | "if i can't have it, nobody can" | 18:46 |
| henrynash | toys, pram, out | 18:46 |
| ayoung | we've inflicted our half-thought-through domain concept on the rest of openstack. We can't break it now | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, i think we can probably drop a user's domain id attribute across the board, but it would be a bunch of work | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, in the token that is | 18:46 |
| ayoung | Lets make the IdP id the domain id | 18:46 |
| ayoung | and lock them one-to-one | 18:47 |
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| jamielennox | ayoung: that will screw us longer term | 18:47 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, how | 18:47 |
| jamielennox | because we have assumptions on things like domain owns project | 18:47 |
| ayoung | how is that worse than screwing all Openstack deployments by yanking domains | 18:47 |
| ayoung | So what | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | we can make domains that don't have Idps, just not the reverse | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | if idp becomes domain then we break the whole existing point of domains | 18:48 |
| bknudson | https://github.com/openstack/identity-api/blob/master/v3/src/markdown/identity-api-v3.md#authentication-responses | 18:48 |
| ayoung | and, in the future we drop domains as the way of talking about users, and only say idps | 18:48 |
| bknudson | here's what we document for the response | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ah, we documented the token that way | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i guess we can't rip that out then can we? | 18:48 |
| bknudson | so you're saying for federation there's no "domain" section in "user"? | 18:48 |
| ayoung | We are stuck with out mistakes. | 18:48 |
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| bknudson | maybe this would be documented in the federation extension | 18:49 |
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| henrynash | how about we think about this is terms of when keystone idenitity becomes an idp | 18:49 |
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| henrynash | surely we want to ADD an “idp” section to teh token, which woudl be “keystone” for ours, and domain is only required for keystoen idps users | 18:50 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, V4 | 18:50 |
| bknudson | I don't see anything in the federation spec that says the token format is different -- https://github.com/openstack/identity-api/blob/master/v3/src/markdown/identity-api-v3-os-federation-ext.md | 18:50 |
| ayoung | V3 api is built around the domain concept | 18:51 |
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| bknudson | henrynash: but when we have keystone identity as an idp we might want to simplify it... one domain per identity idp | 18:51 |
| henrynash | V3 was also built around the idea (origionally) taht all users were “visible” vai keystone, which they aren’t with federation | 18:51 |
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| morganfainberg | i don't want to cut this short but we have one more topic, if henrynash doesn't mind delaying we can continue this convo | 18:52 |
| henrynash | bknudson: so we’d have multiple keystone idps ( to map to the current situation)? | 18:52 |
| bknudson | henrynash: y, if you have multiple domains. | 18:52 |
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| henrynash | morganfainberg: agreed….my only request was so more eyes on: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99842/ | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | ok so lets continue this topic | 18:53 |
| morganfainberg | 7 minutes till end fyi | 18:53 |
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| morganfainberg | i think the question is, should IDPs care about domains (and i don't mean from a grant perspective) | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | if idps don't care about domains (i don't see the benefit), we don't need to lock it to idp == domain | 18:54 |
| dstanek | i just took a look at the numbers and keystone commits are not slowing down - https://www.dropbox.com/s/4dh3tc8mr1ja94b/Screenshot%202014-08-05%2014.53.18.png | 18:54 |
| henrynash | bknudson: but does that map to how we user external idps today…..e.g. teh facebook idp could assert to multiple domains | 18:54 |
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| bknudson | henrynash: I thought we were just discussing that idps didn't know anything about domains. | 18:56 |
| ayoung | henrynash, endpoint policy? | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i think henrynash is claiming that. | 18:56 |
| bknudson | so an identity idp wouldn't know anything about domains | 18:56 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, if i'm understadning you, idps don't care about domains and could assert for any domain today, right? | 18:57 |
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| bknudson | an identity idp would have to work like any other idp... it returns a bag of attributes that get mapped to user ID and groups | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, what did you want to ask about endpoint policy? | 18:58 |
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| henrynash | morganfainberq: it seems to me that this should be true, I can imagine large idps doin that…I guess teh questions is whether an IdP ID that we store internally can point at multiple domains, or whether we crreate a new reprsentation of that idp (i.e. a new IDP ID) for eavery domain | 18:59 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, one to one for now, one to many if it gets requested in the future | 18:59 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: morganfainberg: asked if I would defer….I said yes - as long as peopel get eys on teh spec | 18:59 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, i don't like the tight coupling of idpid to domain_id personally, but i think it adds a lot of overhead and complexity | 18:59 |
| ayoung | KK | 18:59 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, bknudson, i think we have 2 options at the moment (due to the spec) 1: dummy domain, 2: idpid == domain id | 19:00 |
| morganfainberg | unfortunately that is time :( | 19:00 |
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| morganfainberg | take this back to -keystone | 19:01 |
| morganfainberg | #endmeeting | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cinder ci iscsi/smb3 (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 5 19:01:08 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-08-05-18.02.html | 19:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-08-05-18.02.txt | 19:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-08-05-18.02.log.html | 19:01 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: I think we need to jsut draw out the relationships between mapping table, Idp IDs, IDP entities and domains | 19:01 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, fair enough | 19:01 |
| *** emagana has joined #openstack-meeting | 19:01 | |
| fungi | hey ho, let's go? | 19:01 |
| jeblair | hi infra folks? | 19:01 |
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| jolyonbrown | Hi! New here, just hoping to get involved | 19:02 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:02 |
| asselin_ | hi | 19:02 |
| clarkb | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | jolyonbrown: welcome! | 19:02 |
| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 5 19:02:28 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:02 |
| jeblair | our agenda is here: | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:02 |
| jeblair | summary from last meeting: | 19:02 |
| jeblair | http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-07-29-19.01.html | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-07-29-19.01.html | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #topic Puppet module Split out (jesusaurus/nibalizer) | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Puppet module Split out (jesusaurus/nibalizer) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99990/ | 19:03 |
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| ianw | o/ | 19:03 |
| jesusaurus | 99990 has been sitting with a couple +1s for a while now, and I'm just wondering what needs to happen to help move that along | 19:03 |
| jeblair | jesusaurus: very good point; i can review it today | 19:04 |
| jesusaurus | do the cores have any comments/concerns? | 19:04 |
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| * fungi feels partly to blame for not reviewing enough. added to the evening pile | 19:04 | |
| jeblair | hopefully another core can too. i think it was pretty close last time i looked. | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: looks like it has some overlap with your new https://review.openstack.org/#/c/110730/ | 19:05 |
| clarkb | I am still in a review mood I can review it today | 19:05 |
| pleia2 | so I'd simplify 110730 in some places to point to jesusaurus' spec | 19:05 |
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| jesusaurus | if its just a matter of getting burried in review backlog then i guess this will be a short topic | 19:05 |
| jeblair | i think the last two comments look good -- about how to actually proceed switching each module over | 19:06 |
| jesusaurus | but i wanted to give people a chance to discuss any concerns they might have | 19:06 |
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| clarkb | jesusaurus: ya I think with all the travel and summer we haven't kept up at all | 19:06 |
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| pleia2 | (ah, I do see a note in the bottom of 110730) | 19:06 |
| clarkb | jesusaurus: but we seems to be turning a corner on that so hopefully things start moving | 19:06 |
| jeblair | pleia2: i mentioned this one in my spec; but they actually don't overlap that much. they are complimentary | 19:06 |
| fungi | i feel like i should set aside more time to review specs in general, they just take a good deal longer than the typical code change so it takes getting into the right mindset. not an excuse mind you | 19:06 |
| jeblair | fungi: agreed | 19:07 |
| jeblair | the specs process is still a learning process :) | 19:07 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:07 |
| jeblair | any further thoughts on this, particularly any process changes once it's approved and we start in on it? | 19:08 |
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| nibalizer | i think we should automate it, but i doubt thats controversial | 19:08 |
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| fungi | as in changes to how we review additions of new puppet modules to config (deny them) or major refactors (encourage extraction first)? | 19:09 |
| jesusaurus | nibalizer: what do you have in mind? | 19:09 |
| nibalizer | a script to split it out | 19:09 |
| nibalizer | then propose the changes | 19:09 |
| nibalizer | well | 19:09 |
| nibalizer | we should do one first | 19:09 |
| nibalizer | get our sea legs a bit | 19:10 |
| nibalizer | then automate it | 19:10 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: then maybe add that script to tools/ | 19:10 |
| nibalizer | ya | 19:10 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: but i do think we should still do the mods one at a time | 19:10 |
| nibalizer | agreed | 19:10 |
| jesusaurus | agreed | 19:10 |
| fungi | i think the major process change once approved is that we need review diligence to avoid backsliding | 19:10 |
| jeblair | fungi: yep | 19:10 |
| fungi | no accumulation of new modules, no significant work on existing modules while still in the config tree | 19:11 |
| jesusaurus | also some modules will be harder than others due to reviews in-flight | 19:11 |
| jeblair | i'm hoping by splitting those up into individual tasks, we can help spread the work around. in addition to actually doing the split, there will probably be some shepharding needed for the things jesusaurus mentioned | 19:12 |
| jeblair | s/shepharding/cat herding/ | 19:12 |
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| jeblair | anything else, or shall we move on? | 19:13 |
| jesusaurus | also, once we starting splitting modules out, we will want to test interoperability, so i think we should work on those tests on our first split-out module before we start moving with other modules | 19:13 |
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| mordred | o/ | 19:13 |
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| mordred | sorry late | 19:13 |
| jeblair | jesusaurus: good point; also, making the tests on the mods themselves boilerplate | 19:13 |
| jesusaurus | yeah | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | i just approved the zuul cloner patches; maybe we can use that to set up integration tests (so we don't have to use devstack-gate) | 19:14 |
| nibalizer | if you look at the storyboard mod that i split manually | 19:14 |
| nibalizer | i added rake tests and such for it | 19:14 |
| nibalizer | and did a history rewrite so that the testing framework lands first | 19:14 |
| jeblair | cool | 19:14 |
| nibalizer | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100370/ | 19:15 |
| jeblair | not sure how i feel about the history rewrite | 19:15 |
| nibalizer | i'd like to see us do storyboard first, since thats the one i've been most working/familiar with, but that runs against the big refactor krotscheck is trying to land | 19:15 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: its a reordeing rebase, no history is lost | 19:16 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: it isn't necessary | 19:16 |
| clarkb | you just need to put the tests on top as the first change | 19:16 |
| nibalizer | ah and have zuul figure it out? | 19:16 |
| nibalizer | gross | 19:16 |
| nibalizer | okay | 19:16 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: its not gross | 19:16 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: you push the eixsting history into gerrit as is | 19:16 |
| clarkb | nibalizer: then change one adds .gitreview and tests | 19:16 |
| * nibalizer is still used to a github style workflow where I do the ordering in my tree | 19:17 | |
| krotscheck | Note: I discovered an outstanding issue with the storyboard module that I had to fix yesterday, the module didn’t check for the existence of git. | 19:17 |
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| jesusaurus | okay, i think we're pretty much done with this topic now | 19:18 |
| jeblair | i don't want to hold up krotscheck's module since we need to get some changes in to the running server | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | how close are their current states? can we duplicate krotscheck's change onto puppet-storyboard? | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: ^? | 19:19 |
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| jeblair | well, i imagine we'll probably want to do something like that. the alternative is to re-do the extraction and force-push, but that's messy and probably not warranted in this case. | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | #topc Discussion about the inclusion of git-upstream in Stackforge (dguerri) | 19:21 |
| jeblair | #topic Discussion about the inclusion of git-upstream in Stackforge (dguerri) | 19:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discussion about the inclusion of git-upstream in Stackforge (dguerri) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:21 | |
| dguerri | first: hello folks, I am pretty new to these IRC meeting :) | 19:21 |
| fungi | welcome, dguerri | 19:21 |
| jeblair | dguerri: hi there! | 19:22 |
| dguerri | This is about adding a new tool to Stackforge --> https://review.openstack.org/109292 | 19:22 |
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| dguerri | I know this is not something that is usually in this agenda, sorry for the hassle... | 19:22 |
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| dguerri | to recap: this topic is in openstack-infra agenda as there has been a concern about the name of the tool (anteaya) as it could create confusion with git-review | 19:22 |
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| dguerri | After a discussion in #openstack infra, that concern is no longer. anteaya voted with a +1 to that review. | 19:23 |
| jeblair | dguerri: thanks, yeah. we don't normally weigh in too much on stackforge tools; but are certainly happy to help discuss something like this if it's necessary. | 19:23 |
| dguerri | So if someone (at their convenience) could review that... that would be great! :) | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | it has 2x+2s, i only did not approve it since it was on the agenda | 19:24 |
| dguerri | if there are no other concerns or info request... that's all | 19:24 |
| dguerri | ok, thanks! | 19:24 |
| jeblair | so unless any of the core's here have anything to add, we can probably go ahead and push it through | 19:24 |
| clarkb | +1 | 19:24 |
| fungi | seems fine to me | 19:24 |
| jeblair | done | 19:24 |
| dguerri | cheers ;) | 19:25 |
| fungi | my only concerns were when it was previously being proposed for inclusion in openstack-infra instead, at which time its scope was not as well documented | 19:25 |
| jeblair | dguerri: thanks! hope to see you around :) | 19:25 |
| fungi | for stackforge it seems fine | 19:25 |
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| dguerri | I will be around, definitely. | 19:25 |
| jeblair | yeah, seems a stretch for infra at the moment, unless we start using it for gerrit or something | 19:25 |
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| jeblair | #topic Outage for proactively migrating jenkins05 to a different host (fungi) | 19:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Outage for proactively migrating jenkins05 to a different host (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:25 | |
| jeblair | istr this happened? | 19:26 |
| fungi | jeblair: oh, i took that off the agenda after the last time you loaded it :/ | 19:26 |
| jeblair | haha | 19:26 |
| fungi | it happened, no issues | 19:26 |
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| jeblair | excellent! | 19:26 |
| fungi | we can move on | 19:26 |
| jeblair | #topic Pootle upgrade to 2.6.0 RC (pleia2) | 19:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Pootle upgrade to 2.6.0 RC (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:26 | |
| mordred | fungi: well done | 19:26 |
| clarkb | woot | 19:26 |
| clarkb | pleia2: do we need this upgrade to allow the demo to happen? | 19:27 |
| pleia2 | so we have a demo scheduled with a pootle person on the 18th, so I'm hoping we can get this upgraded to the latest 2.6RC so he can show off all the latest features | 19:27 |
| clarkb | pleia2: I am admittedly a bit behind on the state of things here | 19:27 |
| jeblair | pleia2: 19th? | 19:27 |
| pleia2 | er, 19th (but it's the evening of the 18th for us) | 19:27 |
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| jeblair | ok | 19:27 |
| clarkb | I am happy to help if I can. I know jeblair has interest in this area so I may just stay out of the way :) | 19:28 |
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| pleia2 | I am happy to get familiar with how upgrades happen and help out (might be good practice for all of us), or discuss just wiping what we have and installing fresh | 19:28 |
| jeblair | i'm about to take off from mid-this-week to mid-next-week, so i will be of limited utility | 19:28 |
| pleia2 | I'm out thurs-fri this week | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: there's some not at all documented stuff about how i placed the git repos on that server | 19:28 |
| clarkb | jeblair: pootle isn't in puppet right? | 19:28 |
| pleia2 | clarkb: right | 19:29 |
| clarkb | jeblair: but I should be able to log into the server and have root? | 19:29 |
| * clarkb tries to remember what the host's fqdn is | 19:29 | |
| pleia2 | translate-dev | 19:29 |
| jeblair | pleia2: i was not expecting the time delta between when i "got some stuff working" to when i would "write it up properly in puppet" to be nearly a year... | 19:29 |
| jeblair | :( | 19:29 |
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| pleia2 | jeblair: yeah :\ | 19:29 |
| jeblair | pleia2: so we should probably keep that around because of its institutional knowledge | 19:30 |
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| clarkb | yup I have root, pleia2 we can crash course on pootle upgrades between now and monday then do it on monday? | 19:30 |
| pleia2 | clarkb: wfm | 19:30 |
| clarkb | jeblair: or would you prefer we spin up a second host and install from scratch? I am happy either way | 19:30 |
| jeblair | it's probably not crazy to try to upgrade that in place, but of course, if you feel like just doing a new server, that's cool too | 19:30 |
| clarkb | jeblair: ok | 19:30 |
| jeblair | the only other thing on that server is that it contains my not-upstreamed patch to do openid | 19:31 |
| jeblair | upstream has since incorporated a different method of doing openid | 19:31 |
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| jeblair | so that will require changing | 19:31 |
| clarkb | jeblair: config change? | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | fortunately 2.5.1 is still the stable version, so it's not going to be some huge leap | 19:31 |
| jeblair | clarkb: code change | 19:31 |
| clarkb | jeblair: right but we can use upstreams openid now? | 19:31 |
| fungi | pleia2: i'm also around normal hours all next week and am happy to pitch in on it | 19:31 |
| jeblair | (i submitted the change upstream, but he wanted a different approach, which i never got around to writing) | 19:31 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: or do we need to apply your patch to pootle? | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | actually - clarkb can you confirm the version we installed? (I just clicked on "help" but now realized it doesn't specify version) | 19:31 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i hope so, but i do not know. | 19:32 |
| clarkb | pleia2: Pootle==2.5.0 | 19:32 |
| clarkb | jeblair: rdr | 19:32 |
| clarkb | er rgr | 19:32 |
| pleia2 | clarkb: ok, thanks | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | sounds like a plan, thanks! | 19:33 |
| pleia2 | thanks :) | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | #topic Rename Marconi->Zaqar (flaper87) | 19:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Rename Marconi->Zaqar (flaper87) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:33 | |
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| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111244/ | 19:33 |
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| fungi | i'm travelling a bunch this weekend, but can help/run the rename any time next week or after | 19:34 |
| clarkb | I was +2 on a previous patch, need to review current patchset | 19:34 |
| jeblair | i'm also not around this weekend | 19:34 |
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| clarkb | me 3 | 19:34 |
| clarkb | you can blame greghaynes for that | 19:35 |
| fungi | flaper87|afk: if you're not really afk, any requested timeline for renaming? | 19:35 |
| mordred | I do not think I should do it myself | 19:35 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: are you around? | 19:35 |
| mordred | but SergeyLukjanov and I could probably do it | 19:35 |
| mordred | oh - wait - I'm also not aroudn this weekend. duh | 19:36 |
| jeblair | it's sounding like we may want to tentatively schedule it for the following weekend (16-17) | 19:36 |
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| jeblair | along with the kite rename | 19:36 |
| nibalizer | there was also something i wanted to move to the attic | 19:36 |
| * mordred will also not be here the following weekend, nor the weekend after that | 19:36 | |
| clarkb | mordred: giving up on weekend hacking? | 19:37 |
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| nibalizer | i think it was this http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-dashboard/ | 19:37 |
| clarkb | jeblair: 16-17 is hard for me but not impossible | 19:37 |
| mordred | clarkb: wedding, burningman, burningman | 19:37 |
| fungi | oh, and was there ever a decision on gantt? | 19:37 |
| clarkb | fungi: I thought we were leaving gantt as is because people wanted to move it back there at some point | 19:37 |
| clarkb | and we said lets not play musical chairs | 19:37 |
| jeblair | fungi: i think we need to disable access to it | 19:37 |
| jeblair | jraim__: ^ thoughts on moving kite to openstack on the 16-17th ? | 19:38 |
| jeblair | let's revisit these next week | 19:38 |
| clarkb | wfm | 19:38 |
| fungi | ah, right | 19:38 |
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| jeblair | #topic Discuss common location for third party ci system's templates (asselin, krtaylor, joa) | 19:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss common location for third party ci system's templates (asselin, krtaylor, joa) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:38 | |
| fungi | agreed | 19:38 |
| asselin_ | hi, so in the 3rd party discussion, many of us are using jaypipes's repo | 19:39 |
| * ttx lurks | 19:39 | |
| asselin_ | we'd like a common place to leverage each other's work & keep in sync with infra. | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | asselin_: great. that place is infra | 19:39 |
| fungi | i still think rewriting/expanding the third-party.rst would be a welcome place | 19:39 |
| asselin_ | fungi, yes, we can do that as part of the change. | 19:40 |
| clarkb | jeblair: right, I think this falls under making infra more consumable | 19:40 |
| jeblair | asselin_: as you've seen from the earlier topics, there's a lot of work to make the puppet modules more reusable | 19:40 |
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| jeblair | asselin_: that's part of it; documentation is part of it... | 19:40 |
| asselin_ | yes, we've run in a few issues that hve been fixed. | 19:40 |
| asselin_ | I'd like to see documetation + puppet scripts (code) that does it all | 19:41 |
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| asselin_ | we're all spending a lot of time figuring out the same things | 19:41 |
| asselin_ | 3rd party team though was stackforge. | 19:41 |
| fungi | and yeah, as far as any of the scripting/automation side, most of that just speaks to inadequacies in consumability of our tooling (or in some cases, misunderstandings around it, thus shortcomings in documentation) | 19:41 |
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| asselin_ | If you think o.o infra's the place, even better | 19:42 |
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| asselin_ | fungi, I don't want to see everyone reading documentation and putting pieces togeter to get a ci system up and running. | 19:42 |
| jeblair | asselin_: yep. the goal is for all of infra to be consumable; it's going to take a bit to get there, including some things like the large puppet refactor underway. | 19:42 |
| asselin_ | fungi, I'm find with documentation and a solution | 19:42 |
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| e0ne | asselin_ infra is very specific to openstack infrastructure | 19:43 |
| asselin_ | i.e. something like what jaypipes started, but is now out of sync. https://github.com/jaypipes/os-ext-testing | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | asselin_: some of the folks working on this want a full system, including gerrit. the third party folks, not so much. so one thing you can do is help to make sure that as we move forward, it's modular enough to just run the bits you need. | 19:44 |
| e0ne | imo, it would be better to mage infra/config more configurable to use it in 3rd party CIs | 19:44 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: ++ | 19:44 |
| jeblair | asselin_: yeah, everyone who does something like that gets out of sync, which is why we're starting on structural changes to help avoid that | 19:44 |
| jeblair | there are two infra-specs dealing with puppet refactors that are both designed to be initial steps to making this better | 19:45 |
| asselin_ | so perhaps we can agree to move to stack forge, to start to bring it in sync with o.o & the changes discussed earlier (puppet refactors) | 19:45 |
| jeblair | (they aren't going to completely get us there, but they will make a big difference) | 19:46 |
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| jolyonbrown | sorry for a dumb question.. what is o.o ? | 19:46 |
| asselin_ | openstack.org | 19:46 |
| jolyonbrown | :) | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | asselin_: I think the issue with going to stackforge is it is misplacing the effort needed | 19:46 |
| clarkb | asselin_: if we start with infra/config you are automagically in sync | 19:46 |
| fungi | ideally effort would go into improving the existing tooling rather than writing convenience wrappers around it | 19:47 |
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| jesusaurus | fungi: ++ | 19:47 |
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| e0ne | fungi: agree with you | 19:47 |
| asselin_ | clarkb, ok, so we'll add a special 3rd party starting point in infra/config that 3rd party can use & stay in sync. | 19:47 |
| krtaylor | e0ne, we have made several changes to make third-party CI easier to consume | 19:48 |
| jeblair | asselin_: there's a lot of thought about how to use hiera to further refactor what we're doing; it's likely with that in place, we won't really need a separate starting point | 19:48 |
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| e0ne | krtaylor: looks like I missed it:( | 19:49 |
| jeblair | asselin_: so i think that's why you're hearing that we want effort to go into infra | 19:49 |
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| asselin_ | ok, I will spend my effort then to see how to make it work inside infra-config | 19:49 |
| jeblair | it's not going to be fast, but in the end, i think it's going to be good, and we can use all the help we can get :) | 19:49 |
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| asselin_ | agreed | 19:50 |
| jeblair | asselin_: so big things to watch out for are: puppet module split; openstack_project split; hiera related changes | 19:50 |
| jeblair | s/watch out for/help with/ :) | 19:50 |
| asselin_ | yeah...good point, I don't want to add it there, just to get split out :) | 19:51 |
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| mordred | asselin_: also, I've been slowly working up ansible things to run the puppet - which _might_ be helpful or things you want to keep an eye on as well | 19:51 |
| asselin_ | e0ne, krtaylor anthing else I missed? | 19:51 |
| krtaylor | we did talk about having some well commented templates | 19:51 |
| jeblair | all right, thanks for bringing this up -- it's hard to overstate the number of people interested in it, and i think it's key to growing the contributor base to infra | 19:51 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:52 |
| krtaylor | and a place to store them, but I guess that could be documentation | 19:52 |
| jeblair | krtaylor: cool, check out my proposed "openstack_project" split spec and see how that relates to your idea | 19:52 |
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| krtaylor | I guess I could plug the Monday third-party meetings too :) | 19:52 |
| jeblair | i'm going to try to move on and get the last couple topics now | 19:52 |
| krtaylor | jeblair, will do | 19:52 |
| asselin_ | thanks | 19:53 |
| jeblair | #topic Switching all projects to trusty by default (clarkb) | 19:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Switching all projects to trusty by default (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:53 | |
| mordred | clarkb: do it | 19:53 |
| jeblair | clarkb: make it so? :) | 19:53 |
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| clarkb | yes :) | 19:53 |
| clarkb | so really I bring this up because I think for at least infra we want to remain as default precise | 19:53 |
| mordred | do we? | 19:54 |
| clarkb | mordred: all of our nodes are still precise so yes I think so | 19:54 |
| mordred | sorry - mis-parsed your sentence | 19:54 |
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| clarkb | I can write a change that switches most everything to trusty and that may break some things and that change can default us to precise | 19:54 |
| jeblair | we do want to change that; and we'll still be running py27 | 19:54 |
| mordred | I thought you were implying that we wanted to stay on precise as an end-goal | 19:54 |
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| clarkb | mordred: no no, mostly I just want to change the zuul layout.yaml name .* parameter function to default to trusty | 19:55 |
| jeblair | clarkb: so i wonder what things might break? | 19:55 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:55 |
| clarkb | then accomodate for things that should remain precise for now | 19:55 |
| fungi | py33 jobs are going to be a bit of a challenge there | 19:55 |
| clarkb | fungi: py33 is already handled | 19:55 |
| jeblair | clarkb: sounds like a plan | 19:55 |
| fungi | since we need to switch to py34 jobs replacing them | 19:55 |
| fungi | already done? | 19:55 |
| clarkb | fungi: no its not done, but the next item will talk about it :) | 19:55 |
| jeblair | #topic Switching to tox>=1.7.2 (clarkb) | 19:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Switching to tox>=1.7.2 (clarkb) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:55 | |
| fungi | oh, got it! ;_ | 19:55 |
| mordred | clarkb: do it | 19:55 |
| clarkb | so we currently hardcode py33 jobs to precise | 19:55 |
| jeblair | clarkb: make it so? | 19:55 |
| clarkb | we should make it so :) | 19:56 |
| clarkb | but old tox doesn't grok py34 appearnetly | 19:56 |
| fungi | ahh, that | 19:56 |
| mordred | what? jesus | 19:56 |
| fungi | yep, now i see | 19:56 |
| mordred | that's stupid | 19:56 |
| clarkb | at least not according to the tox changelog. So before we can move py33 to py34 we need to upgrade tox :) | 19:56 |
| fungi | so for tox 1.7.2 we need to finish the hashseed pinning right? | 19:56 |
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| mordred | or move to dox | 19:56 |
| clarkb | my current thought is to send mail to the list about flipping to trusty and upgrading tox in ~2 weeks | 19:57 |
| clarkb | fungi: well honestly after all the -2s I have gotten I am really starting to think I should just upgrade tox | 19:57 |
| clarkb | maybe that is too bofhy but its been furstrating | 19:57 |
| jeblair | clarkb: -2s why? | 19:57 |
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| fungi | let them all break and see how fast they change their minds on setting hashseeds? | 19:57 |
| mordred | seriously - that this is a probelm is VERY frustrating to me | 19:57 |
| clarkb | jeblair: our backport process is ridiculous | 19:57 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: and you have to do all these things and people wonder why we need to support new tox on old branches and it has been one thing after another in some cases | 19:58 |
| mordred | I mean, I get the thing it's supposed to be doing - but our TESTENV RUNNER should not be doign this | 19:58 |
| fungi | is it just stable backports which are getting -2'd? | 19:58 |
| clarkb | fungi: yes | 19:58 |
| clarkb | fungi: but they will break without the hashseed tox.ini backport | 19:58 |
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| fungi | i can help advocate for this with the stable branch maintainers. we can't really run a different tox et cetera for testing stable patches, so yes | 19:58 |
| fungi | ttx: ^ | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: it may be worth also bringing this up in the cross project meeting in 1 hour and one minute. | 19:59 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:59 |
| clarkb | so should I go ahead and say ~2 weeks from now we will be doing this? | 19:59 |
| fungi | definitely | 19:59 |
| clarkb | jeblair: will do | 19:59 |
| mordred | I'm also not really kidding about moving to dox instead | 19:59 |
| clarkb | maybe wait on announcement for after the cross project meeting | 19:59 |
| jeblair | mordred: except for ceilometer | 19:59 |
| jeblair | mordred: i mean cinder | 19:59 |
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| clarkb | and tempest | 19:59 |
| mordred | jeblair: cinder doesn't run iscsci in its unittestss | 19:59 |
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| clarkb | actually tempest should work nevermind | 20:00 |
| fungi | i would let the cross-project meeting know you're doing this in 2 weeks. friendly public service announcement ;_ | 20:00 |
| jeblair | mordred: but it might in its functests, and we should not block that | 20:00 |
| clarkb | fungi: :) sounds good | 20:00 |
| jeblair | and we're at time; thanks everyone! | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "cinder ci iscsi/smb3 (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 5 20:00:37 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-08-05-19.02.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-08-05-19.02.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-08-05-19.02.log.html | 20:00 |
| mordred | jeblair: indeed - although I'd like to figure out a way to solve that ... also, it _may_ be possible to do - just not with proper separation | 20:00 |
| jolyonbrown | *Ahem* enjoyed watching this meeting. I’m relatively new to openstack infra (lurked for a while), but looking to get involved (ulterior motive: http://www.openstack.org/vote-paris/Presentation/from-noob-to-root-how-i-got-involved-with-the-openstack-infrastructure-team). Will be bugging the irc channel quite a lot and trying to pick up tasks. If anyone wants anything doing please give me a shout! https://launchpad.net/~jolyo | 20:00 |
| jolyonbrown | n | 20:00 |
| jeblair | ttx hold one sec please | 20:01 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jeblair | 20:01 | |
| *** jeblair changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:01 | |
| mordred | jolyonbrown: awesome! welcome | 20:01 |
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| jeblair | ttx: all clear | 20:01 |
| *** jeblair sets mode: -o jeblair | 20:01 | |
| boris-42 | Hi everybody =) | 20:01 |
| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:01 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| notmyname | here | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| dhellmann_ | o/ | 20:01 |
| mikal | Heya | 20:01 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:01 |
| boris-42 | https://docs.google.com/a/pavlovic.ru/document/d/137zbrz0KJd6uZwoZEu4BkdKiR_Diobantu0GduS7HnA/edit# this is some kind of summary | 20:01 |
| ttx | russellb, markmc, annegentle, devananda, vishy, jaypipes : around ? | 20:02 |
| boris-42 | cause mailing list has a lot of stuff | 20:02 |
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| vishy | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | boris-42: wait a sec until meeting starts and we get that logged | 20:02 |
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| eglynn | ttx: markmc is on PTO this week still | 20:02 |
| boris-42 | ttx ok I will do | 20:02 |
| ttx | we now have quorum* | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 5 20:02:50 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:02 |
| jaypipes | o/ | 20:02 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:02 |
| *** dhellmann_ is now known as dhellmann | 20:02 | |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:02 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today is at: | 20:03 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:03 |
| ttx | #topic Rally incubation request | 20:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Rally incubation request (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| boris-42 | #link https://docs.google.com/a/pavlovic.ru/document/d/137zbrz0KJd6uZwoZEu4BkdKiR_Diobantu0GduS7HnA/edit# summary of mailing list | 20:03 |
| ttx | So this is split into two governance changes, one asking for a new program: | 20:03 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/108502 | 20:03 |
| ttx | The other asking to add Rally for incubation into the integrated release: | 20:03 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/110638 | 20:03 |
| ttx | On the first part there is tension on the need for a separate program | 20:04 |
| ttx | That tension imho revolves around the two aspects of Rally: performance testing on one side (which is seen as a QA thing), and operators-facing performance ("SLA") monitoring-as-a-service (which is seen as one of several operators tools) | 20:04 |
| ttx | Personally I see value in more direct integration/collaboration between performance testing and QA, and being under the same program would help | 20:04 |
| ttx | But then a program around operators tooling is not such a bad idea either | 20:04 |
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| ttx | So I'm torn on that first review. I'm much more circumspect on Rally incubating to become part of the integrated release, though | 20:05 |
| mordred | ttx: I agree with those sentences | 20:05 |
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| ttx | To me it sounds like a tool that could happily sit on top of "OpenStack" | 20:05 |
| devananda | o/ | 20:05 |
| zehicle_at_dell | o/ | 20:05 |
| russellb | ttx: agreed | 20:05 |
| jeblair | we've certainly discussed performance testing (especially how hard it is to do right) in the qa context before | 20:05 |
| ttx | rather than "in" | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | there were some comments about rally (re)producing some things that should be in tempest, did we get more detail about what those are? | 20:05 |
| boris-42 | devananda so there is tempest.conf generation | 20:06 |
| sdague | dhellmann: rally has a bunch of statistics collection and reporting pieces around the tempest subunit output | 20:06 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann& | 20:06 |
| devananda | sorry for being a bit late. still recovering from last week. | 20:06 |
| ttx | so in summary: I think Rally fills an important role, performance testing is definitely a good idea, so it should fall into some official program, in QA or separate | 20:06 |
| sdague | that's my current main objection of function in the wrong place, as I think that should be part of what any tempest user gets at the end of the run | 20:06 |
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| boris-42 | sdague yep but in case of making rally launcher for tempest | 20:07 |
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| boris-42 | sdague we can simplify a lot infra patches | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | that does feel like it should live closer to tempest in terms of code management | 20:07 |
| boris-42 | sdague and end users life | 20:07 |
| devananda | sdague: aiui, rally also instruments many things, even in the absense of tempest | 20:07 |
| ttx | and then I'm not sure it *needs* to be in the integrated release, it can very well live in peripheral tooling | 20:07 |
| boris-42 | devananda that is true, but we don't want to make a duplication with tempest | 20:07 |
| mordred | in fact, given experience with no-branch tempest ... | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | devananda: yes, that's the osprofiler part | 20:07 |
| annegent_ | if it's SLA management, is it important to track release? SLA for icehouse for example? And does Rally track now with a cloud in production that's on the tip? | 20:07 |
| boris-42 | devananda e.g. for running functional testing we would like to use tempeest | 20:07 |
| russellb | totally agree perf testing / profiling / benchmarking is important and useful ... but feel it needs to be tightly coupled into the QA group to be successful | 20:07 |
| mordred | we may not WANT it in the integrated release | 20:07 |
| annegent_ | mordred: that's my thinking as well | 20:08 |
| mordred | because honestly rally probably wants to be able to run against any release of openstack | 20:08 |
| sdague | devananda: entirely possible, the point being rally is highly monolythic today | 20:08 |
| devananda | dhellmann: right. the osprofiler bit, as proposed to oslo, seems to fill an important role | 20:08 |
| annegent_ | mordred: right | 20:08 |
| mordred | which is out-of-band of releases | 20:08 |
| boris-42 | mordred yep | 20:08 |
| dhellmann | devananda: well, if there's going to be a new program managing this stuff, it doesn't need to go into oslo | 20:08 |
| sdague | which makes it actually really hard to sort out what should and should not be different places, because the architecture doesn't currently support that | 20:08 |
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| mordred | I think jaypipes made a good point wrt scalr and that on the mailing list | 20:08 |
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| boris-42 | mordred but seems like it was a bit another story? | 20:09 |
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| mordred | I'm very torn, because I think rally has some great stuff and I support its goals and I think it does things taht are useful to operators | 20:09 |
| boris-42 | mordred it was developed by one company and so on | 20:09 |
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| boris-42 | mordred yep so the idea is to provide official OpenStack API for that | 20:09 |
| mordred | but also there are clearly parts and places wehre it wants to collaborate more directly with existing things and that keeps being a struggle | 20:09 |
| boris-42 | mordred that will bring tempest to operation level as well | 20:09 |
| boris-42 | mordred what about doc that I proposed? | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | #link http://stackalytics.com/?release=all&project_type=stackforge&module=rally | 20:10 |
| mordred | honestly - as a user of a cloud ... I'm not sure I want an API for this - as much as a tool I can point to clouds | 20:10 |
| sdague | mordred I agree there is a lot of good stuff in rally, but I think it crosses a lot of existing boundaries, and it would be better to get of the parts into the various "upstreams" | 20:10 |
| mordred | it might be nice for us to be able to easily run rally against hp and rax public cloud in infra to get a sense of how they are doing for workload scheduling purposes | 20:10 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann #link http://stackalytics.com/?release=juno&project_type=stackforge&module=rally&metric=commits in juno it's better | 20:10 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann community is rising and influence of mirantis is less and less and it is nice | 20:11 |
| devananda | dhellmann: hmm, that piechart has one main ingredient... | 20:11 |
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| boris-42 | devananda yep cause rally was started by me | 20:11 |
| boris-42 | devananda and I am in Mirantis lol=) | 20:11 |
| mikal | So the board also has their tempest sub set thing | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | sdague: it would be useful to have a more specific list of those things and where they might go as part of an approval process | 20:11 |
| mikal | Do we think that should somehow become part of rally? | 20:11 |
| annegent_ | mikal: yeah tcup? | 20:11 |
| mikal | annegent_: yeah, that | 20:12 |
| russellb | mikal: no :) | 20:12 |
| annegent_ | and do users expect to be able to point a tool at a cloud? and is rally that? | 20:12 |
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| boris-42 | mordred ? | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | rally is for performance testing, not compliance testing | 20:12 |
| boris-42 | mordred could you elaborate we already have performance jobs.. | 20:12 |
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| mordred | boris-42: what I'm saying is, to _me_ it's useful to be able to download rally and run it at endpoints | 20:12 |
| devananda | boris-42: ok, http://stackalytics.com/?release=juno&project_type=stackforge&module=rally&metric=commits looks somewhat bettr | 20:12 |
| ttx | annegent_: I don't expect rally to be run by end users, it's more geared towards cloud operators | 20:12 |
| mikal | annegent_: they're certainly intending tcup to just be a thing you point at an existing cloud | 20:12 |
| mordred | it's not useful for rally to be an endpoint a cloud exposes to me | 20:12 |
| annegent_ | dhellmann: ok, that makes sense, but performance does not equal "meets sla" | 20:12 |
| sdague | dhellmann: honestly, beyond the statistics collection, no. Honestly, I've not dug in further because rally was always off in a corner doing their own thing | 20:13 |
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| boris-42 | mordred ah* | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: agreed | 20:13 |
| boris-42 | mordred so the idea is to organize some kind of periodic tasks & benchmarks on demands | 20:13 |
| boris-42 | mordred so you don't need to install and setup anything | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | sdague: sure, I didn't mean right now, I just meant if the outcome of the discussion is "well, break it up" then we need to work with boris-42 on how | 20:13 |
| sdague | dhellmann: honestly, I don't think a tool is for "performance testing" or "compliance testing". I think tools run loads, and produce results. | 20:13 |
| boris-42 | mordred just run it | 20:13 |
| zehicle_at_dell | we've had similar discussions around refstack and these use caes | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | sdague: pedant | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | :-) | 20:14 |
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| sdague | dhellmann: maybe, but I think people are getting too wrapped up with intent, vs. function | 20:14 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann heh I am not sure how to split rally on parts | 20:14 |
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| devananda | boris-42: is the REST API you've proposed end-user facing, or only operator-facing? | 20:14 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann the major reasons is that we have resources* | 20:14 |
| mordred | boris-42: yes. I understand. I'm giving you feedback as a large cloud enduser that I do not think that API endpoint is something I would ever use | 20:14 |
| ttx | At this stage, the reason we want Rally as an official OpenStack project is so that we can rely on it to do QA. Not really to serve a benchmark-as-a-service use case imho | 20:14 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann admin-facing (in horizon) | 20:14 |
| mordred | boris-42: but I'm very interested in the ability to run such workloads against endpoints I ahve | 20:14 |
| boris-42 | devananda ^ | 20:14 |
| boris-42 | mordred you will be able | 20:14 |
| boris-42 | mordred we are going to support 2 modes | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | sdague: I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're making | 20:14 |
| jeblair | ttx: which very deftly illustrates the point: rally's performance testing should be in the qa program | 20:14 |
| boris-42 | mordred rally as a service and just rally as a cli tool | 20:14 |
| boris-42 | mordred cli tool for hackers like me=) | 20:15 |
| russellb | so rally used to seem dev focused ... the results you give devs to improve their code, and the info you give cloud admins are different things | 20:15 |
| russellb | rally wants to do both? | 20:15 |
| mordred | oh - admin facing service | 20:15 |
| mordred | gotcha | 20:15 |
| boris-42 | russellb not only | 20:15 |
| mordred | not an end-user facing service | 20:15 |
| boris-42 | russellb we can track for example such things like how much some request work in specific service | 20:15 |
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| mordred | "how is my cloud doing" - not "how is this cloud over here doing" | 20:15 |
| russellb | i'm also sad that i've never seen any nova results :) | 20:15 |
| boris-42 | russellb and then operators can manage such sitatuions | 20:15 |
| boris-42 | russellb e.g. keystone started working slow we need to do something | 20:16 |
| russellb | boris-42: sounds like a general monitoring thing | 20:16 |
| ttx | jeblair: doesn't mean it can't move to a more "operators tools" program some day | 20:16 |
| russellb | that we shouldn't be reinventing | 20:16 |
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| ttx | ok... so: | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | boris-42: do the tests rally uses require admin rights on the cloud? | 20:16 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann at this moment yes | 20:16 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann but it's high priority task already for couple of months | 20:16 |
| ttx | I think we want Rally to be an official openstack project living in an official openstack program | 20:16 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann and we are quite close to remove it | 20:16 |
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| devananda | boris-42: so your goal is for rally-cli to be useful for an end-user to point at a public cloud? | 20:17 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann as well adding support of LDAP | 20:17 |
| sdague | ttx: I'm not convinced that's true in the current state honestly | 20:17 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann so you can specify pre created users | 20:17 |
| ttx | it should prove itself necessary, and growing in the QA program is probably the best way to achieve that | 20:17 |
| sdague | there needs to be some disagregation first | 20:17 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann yep for developers espcially | 20:17 |
| boris-42 | devananda ^ | 20:17 |
| jeblair | ttx: i think we want at least the functionality in an official project | 20:17 |
| markmcclain | ttx: +1 | 20:17 |
| boris-42 | devananda that don't want to deploy | 20:17 |
| russellb | i think it'd be nice to see an evaluation from the QA program | 20:17 |
| sdague | jeblair: agreed | 20:17 |
| russellb | and how they think it (or parts) could fit in | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | russellb: +1, that's what I was trying to get at before | 20:18 |
| jeblair | mtreinish: ^ | 20:18 |
| sdague | jeblair: mtreinish is still traveling back from au IIRC | 20:18 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann russellb does that document makes sense?) | 20:18 |
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| ttx | basically, we need rally to fill first and foremost the QA needs. It migth need to be tweaked to achieve that | 20:18 |
| russellb | boris-42: it's very opinionated :) | 20:18 |
| russellb | ttx: +1 | 20:18 |
| ttx | THEN if it can also be resued by operators, all the better | 20:18 |
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| ttx | rused* | 20:18 |
| boris-42 | ttx what do you mean by QA needs? | 20:19 |
| ttx | reused* | 20:19 |
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| boris-42 | ttx ahh so using rally for QA at first step? | 20:19 |
| ttx | boris-42: from what I hear here, there are some concerns on how to best fit and avoid duplication of functionality etc | 20:19 |
| devananda | ttx: ++ to that. I'm not yet convinced it should be part of the integrated release, but there's clearly a QA (and eventually operational) need to be filled | 20:19 |
| boris-42 | ttx so what we do in rally is reuse tempest =) | 20:19 |
| ttx | solving that, I thinnk, increases the chances of ultimate success for rally | 20:19 |
| boris-42 | ttx sure but what about current POC that we made? | 20:20 |
| ttx | It will help evolve it from a monolithic product to something that is really part of openstack | 20:20 |
| boris-42 | sdague ^ | 20:20 |
| annegent_ | I'd like to have us think about where an operator / cloud admin toolset lives, does it have to be a program? Does it have to be integrated releases? | 20:20 |
| mordred | annegent_: ++ | 20:20 |
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| sdague | annegent_: agreed | 20:20 |
| boris-42 | annegent_ as far as I understand if it present OpenSatck API | 20:20 |
| annegent_ | and boris-42 your user base will be a huge part of that | 20:20 |
| boris-42 | annegent_ it should be | 20:20 |
| ttx | I'm not closing the door on an operator tooling program... just sayign it's probably not the right timing for it | 20:21 |
| boris-42 | ttx I agree with this | 20:21 |
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| boris-42 | ttx we should present this API | 20:21 |
| mordred | boris-42: we're saying we're not sold on it presenting an API - and we'd like to take things one step at a time | 20:21 |
| boris-42 | ttx before doing such request=) | 20:21 |
| ttx | boris-42: it doesn't have to be in the integrated release to have an API | 20:21 |
| jaypipes | annegent_: ++ | 20:21 |
| boris-42 | mordred sure baby steps=) | 20:21 |
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| boris-42 | mordred ttx what I am worried that if we will be in QA program | 20:22 |
| sdague | boris-42: that presuposes a very specific way that people want to consume this, instead of, for instance script to fit tempest runs + results into nagios or jmeter or something else that is already on site and used by operators | 20:22 |
| annegent_ | boris-42: I'm a bit more conservative in the shared resources, esp. API docs :) | 20:22 |
| boris-42 | mordred ttx we won't be able to extend scope | 20:22 |
| mordred | boris-42: I believe we're also saying that an important first step is figuring out the code duplication relationship with tempest and the monolithic architeceture concerns | 20:22 |
| boris-42 | annegent_ we care about docs=) | 20:22 |
| boris-42 | annegent_ so there will be docs=) | 20:22 |
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| ttx | boris-42: I think the TC is worried that if it's on its own program it will never reduce scope. | 20:22 |
| boris-42 | mordred so in current POC there is no duplication, if tempest won't start doing performance tests | 20:22 |
| russellb | it actually feels like it's trying to do too much | 20:23 |
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| russellb | without having fully accomplished step 1 | 20:23 |
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| sdague | and never really fit well into an integrated environment | 20:23 |
| boris-42 | mordred e.g. functional tests are in tempest, and rally can use them or own performance scenarios for testing | 20:23 |
| sdague | russellb: agreed | 20:23 |
| jaypipes | ACTION thinks that a more effective (for the OpenStack community as a whole and Rally contrib community specifically) plan is to 1) propose OSProfiler for inclusion in the QA program (immediately), b) Propose to governance repo a new program called Operator Tools, with Rally and maybe a couple other projects like StackTach living in the openstack/ namespace, but not incubated or integrated or anything, and c) havi | 20:23 |
| jaypipes | (i.e. forget about incubation/integration etc | 20:23 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes +1 | 20:24 |
| boris-42 | jaypipes unties we present API =) | 20:24 |
| jaypipes | and just do the needful and get these worthwhile projects into an operator program that has code in openstack namespace. | 20:24 |
| jeblair | jaypipes: your (c) was cut off | 20:24 |
| ttx | jaypipes: looks like the TC is converging towards making Rally a part of the QA program, and decline incubation at this point | 20:24 |
| boris-42 | unitl* | 20:24 |
| sdague | honestly, I still want the parts of rally that make more sense back in tempest, like the results pieces separated out first | 20:24 |
| mordred | sdague: ++ | 20:24 |
| ttx | which is not exactly matching your (b) above | 20:24 |
| jaypipes | sdague: I don't disagree with that at all. | 20:24 |
| boris-42 | mordred sdague why not using rally in gates and everywehre? | 20:24 |
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| boris-42 | mordred sdague for tempest tests, performance tests and other stuff | 20:25 |
| mordred | boris-42: because we're asking you to take the code that should be in tempest and put it there | 20:25 |
| jaypipes | sdague: but there's a chunk of stuff in rally roadmap that simply doesn't belong in QA, and I think we need a place to put that code that isn't stackforge, frankly. | 20:25 |
| sdague | boris-42: right, because those parts should be back in *tempest* | 20:25 |
| boris-42 | mordred we are working on that | 20:25 |
| sdague | jaypipes: agreed | 20:25 |
| boris-42 | sdague agree | 20:25 |
| jeblair | mordred: ++ | 20:25 |
| boris-42 | sdague mordred actually Rally should just call tempest and store results | 20:25 |
| sdague | boris-42: the parts that would run in the gate, should all be back in tempest. | 20:25 |
| boris-42 | sdague mordred and do some aggreagtion | 20:25 |
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| sdague | boris-42: right, and what I'm saying is that whole flow should actually be tempest :P | 20:26 |
| boris-42 | sdague nope | 20:26 |
| ttx | jaypipes: isn't being included in the QA program as a first step a way to ensure the QA program will be able to live with Rally, though | 20:26 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: sorry! my c) was: c) having the Rally and QA folks work out the differences and do the needful in terms of libifications <-- in other words, what boris and sean are currntyly talking about ;) | 20:26 |
| boris-42 | sdague disagree with this | 20:26 |
| sdague | and the fact that the rally team ran off in a corner instead of contributing to tempest is a big problem | 20:26 |
| boris-42 | sdague there is difference between tempest & rally | 20:26 |
| boris-42 | sdague they arch is build for different people | 20:26 |
| ttx | I think there is no point in an operators program growing a Rally that the QA team doesn't like | 20:26 |
| russellb | i think it's a problem that it took until now to figure this out | 20:26 |
| sdague | russellb: it didn't take this long | 20:27 |
| boris-42 | sdague rally is something that should work out of box with own DB and so on | 20:27 |
| sdague | I've been providing this feedback to the rally team for the last 6 months | 20:27 |
| sdague | and just threw up my hands | 20:27 |
| boris-42 | sdague tempest is bunch of scripts for creating exactly what you need in your CI | 20:27 |
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| dhellmann | boris-42: so rally supports having test scenarios that are not part of tempest? | 20:27 |
| russellb | sdague: good to hear ... i guess i mean it's unfortunate that a proposal is made when there's clearly still such a big gap | 20:27 |
| jaypipes | ttx: well, I think *parts* of Rally do belong in the QA program, along with OSProfiler... but I don't think Rally should just ask to go into the QA program now, then in some short time once pieces are pulled out of it, then propose to start up a new Operator Tools program | 20:27 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann yep | 20:27 |
| devananda | boris-42: the scope diagram in rally's repo includes "deploy openstack cloud", "run tempest", "benchmark", and "generate report" | 20:27 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann cause it is impossible to create any load | 20:27 |
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| russellb | sdague: agree it seems it was "off in a corner" | 20:27 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann yep it includes some dev cases that were orignial | 20:28 |
| boris-42 | devananda ^ | 20:28 |
| devananda | boris-42: I, for one, am quite concerned that this is duplicatign several existing programs' efforts | 20:28 |
| boris-42 | devananda so the idea was just to put some glue for using devstack and other stuff | 20:28 |
| devananda | boris-42: and agree that it's better for the parts that should be in existing projects to be contributed there | 20:28 |
| boris-42 | devananda to deploy on what you have | 20:28 |
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| boris-42 | devananda it was dev case at the very begging | 20:28 |
| boris-42 | devananda but what I saw from different companies nobody is interested in that | 20:28 |
| mordred | boris-42: right. but the thing is, we ALSO had code to do that | 20:28 |
| boris-42 | devananda everybody has own clouds | 20:28 |
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| boris-42 | devananda and they need just to get reports=) | 20:29 |
| ttx | OK, so there is agreement around that the incubation request is not warranted, at least not as this early stage, but still discussion on whether we want Rally in QA or in some operator tooling program | 20:29 |
| boris-42 | rudrarug_ or debug=) | 20:29 |
| jeblair | boris-42: i think some of us are having trouble seeing the difference between rally and QA scope. i think we'd like you to try to work it out and incorporate parts of rally in tempest. | 20:29 |
| boris-42 | mordred yep I know | 20:29 |
| mordred | boris-42: so, what I personally need to see from you other than good code is an ability to work within other people's designs | 20:29 |
| mordred | boris-42: and to collaborate with existing programs | 20:29 |
| mordred | it's very important | 20:29 |
| boris-42 | mordred but if we can have code in one place that can be reused by everybody | 20:29 |
| devananda | mordred: ++ | 20:29 |
| boris-42 | mordred it means for me to be "open" | 20:29 |
| russellb | mordred: ++ | 20:29 |
| boris-42 | mordred I agree | 20:29 |
| annegent_ | boris-42: I think it's fine to get the discussion, and we're offering input even early | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | boris-42: sometimes that openness means putting things in the right place, not just in a central place | 20:30 |
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| boris-42 | devananda sure | 20:30 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann sure** | 20:30 |
| mordred | boris-42: so let's suggest this - for now, I think it's very important that you figure out which bits of rally actually need to live in tempest with sdague and then get that work done | 20:30 |
| vishy | so it sounds like the main issue is scope creep | 20:30 |
| vishy | i.e. rally needs to be scoped back down to something reasonable | 20:30 |
| mordred | and once that's underway, it seems like we'll be pretty excited about seeing where we can take the next step with rally | 20:30 |
| mordred | no? | 20:30 |
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| ttx | We have other items to cover, and I think we won't solve that one today. We should continue the discussion on the mailing-list and the reviews, based on the feedback we just provided | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | vishy: +1 | 20:30 |
| davidlenwell | boris-42: if you need help with that refstack has some of the same needs from tempest and I have a few people who need things to do. | 20:31 |
| vishy | honestly i would throw out the operator stuff completely | 20:31 |
| vishy | make it a dev tool | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | mordred: +1 | 20:31 |
| russellb | vishy: +++ | 20:31 |
| devananda | vishy: ++ | 20:31 |
| boris-42 | mordred https://review.openstack.org/#/c/94473/ | 20:31 |
| boris-42 | mordred this is major part | 20:31 |
| boris-42 | mordred that should be moved out of rally | 20:31 |
| devananda | vishy: the osprofiler work looks MUCH more useful to operators to me | 20:31 |
| ttx | vishy: that means.. in the QA program :) | 20:31 |
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| dhellmann | vishy, russellb : I see some value in an operator tool to look at the full stack performance | 20:31 |
| vishy | sure that is fine | 20:31 |
| vishy | but rally is trying to do both | 20:31 |
| russellb | but let's start with dev tool | 20:31 |
| vishy | start with one | 20:31 |
| russellb | yes, that | 20:32 |
| russellb | and make it really awesome at that | 20:32 |
| gokrokve | As an operator I would prefer well defined service which provides me an information about my current deployment status, rather then having bunch of scripts I have to know how to run and use. | 20:32 |
| russellb | i mean, i've never seen a single set of results for nova | 20:32 |
| devananda | boris-42: an initial guess, from a previous operator-of-things. Something like osprofiler + the reporting tools would be helpful for operators. but those tools don't need an API | 20:32 |
| ttx | vishy: yes, that's what I meant by suggesting to grow as a QA use case first | 20:32 |
| boris-42 | gokrokve but it's goal of rally.. | 20:32 |
| boris-42 | gokrokve on operators program | 20:32 |
| sdague | gokrokve: how do you monitor the monitor? | 20:32 |
| boris-42 | devananda they already have actually*=) | 20:32 |
| boris-42 | devananda they API is special headers and in python clients --profile | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | boris-42: do you have any links to results handy for russellb ? | 20:33 |
| boris-42 | devananda btw could you take a look at spec | 20:33 |
| gokrokve | If it is a service I can use some tools available. If it is a bunch of tests I cant monitor them at all. | 20:33 |
| boris-42 | russellb ? | 20:33 |
| ttx | boris-42: do you agree to abandon the incubation request part ? I think we need to discuss the program placement a bit more | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | russellb: I've seen a few nice graphs, but didn't save the links | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | boris-42: rally output | 20:33 |
| boris-42 | ttx +1 | 20:33 |
| russellb | dhellmann: don't need to see them this minute ... | 20:33 |
| boris-42 | ttx it is not time to incubated | 20:33 |
| boris-42 | ttx we should disucss program | 20:33 |
| ttx | #agreed Rally incubation request dropped | 20:33 |
| boris-42 | dhellmann russellb one sec | 20:34 |
| ttx | #info Still disagreement on whether Rally should be placed under QA program or new "operators tools"-like program | 20:34 |
| russellb | boris-42: don't worry about it | 20:34 |
| boris-42 | russellb btw wanna rally perfroamnce job | 20:34 |
| boris-42 | russellb in nova? | 20:34 |
| russellb | i'm more concerned about regular results being provided | 20:34 |
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| russellb | boris-42: of course | 20:34 |
| boris-42 | mordred ^=) | 20:34 |
| boris-42 | russellb mordred we will make a patch then | 20:34 |
| boris-42 | russellb https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111973/ | 20:34 |
| boris-42 | russellb take a look at jenkins output | 20:34 |
| ttx | Let's continue that discussion on the ML and the review, please | 20:34 |
| boris-42 | russellb http://logs.openstack.org/73/111973/1/check/gate-rally-dsvm-rally/cd94a94/ | 20:35 |
| boris-42 | russellb in rally-plot you have different presentation of result | 20:35 |
| boris-42 | russellb it some kind of functional testing of rally | 20:35 |
| boris-42 | russellb this is what was actually run https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally-scenarios/rally.yaml | 20:35 |
| boris-42 | russellb sla: max_failure_precent means that job will fail if any of iteration in scenario will fail | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | ttx: do you mean discuss the operators tool program on the ML? | 20:36 |
| ttx | I mean present the two options and gather pros/cons | 20:36 |
| * dhellmann nods | 20:36 | |
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| ttx | I would like ot be sure that the QA team would take it, too | 20:36 |
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| boris-42 | ttx dhellmann one more thread? | 20:37 |
| ttx | and I think there needs to be more education and reflection on that topic, we won't choose today | 20:37 |
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| mordred | ++ | 20:37 |
| boris-42 | ttx +1 | 20:37 |
| ttx | and we have other topics to cover. | 20:37 |
| boris-42 | =) | 20:37 |
| ttx | #topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Gap analysis for Swift | 20:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Gap analysis for Swift (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:37 | |
| notmyname | hello | 20:37 |
| ttx | notmyname: o/ | 20:37 |
| * ttx considers having two TC meetings per week | 20:38 | |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/swift_gap_analysis | 20:38 |
| ttx | So.. swift is the last currently-integrated project to go through this | 20:38 |
| notmyname | sorry I couldn't make it a few weeks ago | 20:38 |
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| ttx | the goal again is to make sure currently-integrated projects match the requirements we place on new projects | 20:39 |
| mordred | ttx: jogo wants us to meet daily you know ... | 20:39 |
| ttx | and if there is any gap, we have a plan to address it | 20:39 |
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| annegent_ | so swift didn't get a cease and desist from Apple? :) I kid, I kid. | 20:39 |
| ttx | annegent_: they got one from Taylor Swift | 20:39 |
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| notmyname | heh | 20:39 |
| annegent_ | ttx: NO | 20:39 |
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| * dhellmann believes it | 20:40 | |
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| mikal | I think John should sing more Taylor Swift songs at summits | 20:40 |
| * mordred sends Taylor Swift a C&D | 20:40 | |
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| * mordred is pretty sure his last name was Taylor before she was born | 20:40 | |
| dhellmann | mikal: +1 | 20:40 |
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| mordred | mikal: ++ | 20:40 |
| ttx | notmyname: so... we have one well-known difference, not sure we can consider it a gap though... | 20:40 |
| notmyname | ttx: I agree with that statement :-) | 20:40 |
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| ttx | which is that swift has its own intra-cycle release schedule | 20:40 |
| russellb | release cycle? | 20:40 |
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| ttx | We basically special-case Swift, of all the integrated release pieces, in release scripts to support that... difference | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | ew | 20:41 |
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| notmyname | we fully participate in the integrated release | 20:41 |
| notmyname | but instead of milestones, we have semantically versioning releases | 20:42 |
| * reed announces Taylor Swift will be in Paris | 20:42 | |
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| mordred | also, I'm not sure I agree with the answer to * Project should use oslo libraries or oslo-incubator where appropriate | 20:42 |
| russellb | on a different schedule, not just the naming | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | notmyname: "we do what you want, but something different"? | 20:42 |
| ttx | Specific versioning which also triggers that special-casing in release scripts | 20:42 |
| annegent_ | reed: NO :) | 20:42 |
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| devananda | reed: lol | 20:42 |
| mordred | given there is no use of oslo whatsoever, I don't think "done" is the right answer | 20:42 |
| russellb | mordred: agreed | 20:42 |
| annegent_ | mordred: but they just started using oslosphinx :) | 20:42 |
| notmyname | mordred: jsut today I merged using oslosphinx :-) | 20:43 |
| mordred | notmyname: neat! | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: I'm more interested in oslo.config | 20:43 |
| mordred | :) | 20:43 |
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| annegent_ | dhellmann: Actually, yah, me too | 20:43 |
| annegent_ | docs team had to write a scraper | 20:43 |
| * mordred doesn't necessarily want to push for a particular change - just wants to call a spade a spade | 20:43 | |
| annegent_ | for config options | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | annegent_: so that's 2 teams special casing things for swift? | 20:43 |
| ttx | notmyname: I just want to make sure we are different there for a reason -- I just don't want each integrated project to come up with their own variation of release schedule | 20:43 |
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| ttx | and if we grant swift an exception, that it's documented as an exception | 20:44 |
| notmyname | ttx: ok, so there's a few things going on here so far. hard to handle 2 conversations | 20:44 |
| notmyname | ttx: which do you want first? | 20:44 |
| ttx | I was first | 20:44 |
| ttx | :) | 20:44 |
| notmyname | :-) | 20:44 |
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| notmyname | ok, release cycle | 20:44 |
| ttx | basically we force new projects to follow the common cycle | 20:44 |
| ttx | including dev milestones | 20:44 |
| notmyname | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Release_Cycle | 20:44 |
| notmyname | see the 3rd paragraph | 20:45 |
| ttx | I'm fine to keep the swift exception, but I want to make sure we are doing it for the right reason, and that it's seen as an exception | 20:45 |
| notmyname | there are a few reasons we do the releases the way we do | 20:45 |
| notmyname | first, historical reasons. that's not always a reason to keep doing something some way, but it is one reason | 20:46 |
| ttx | we no longer give that choice to new projects | 20:46 |
| mikal | I don't personally have a problem with swift's release cycle, and we can always tell new projects that its different for historical reasons | 20:46 |
| ttx | mikal: I would be fine with that | 20:46 |
| ttx | it's different for historical reasons | 20:46 |
| russellb | it affects more than just new projects | 20:46 |
| russellb | it's also a complication for anyone consuming openstack releases | 20:46 |
| jeblair | let's see if there's any reason other than historical to keep doing it | 20:46 |
| russellb | so it comes at a cost to keep it | 20:46 |
| markmcclain | just because we've always done something that way doesn't mean we shouldn't consider aligning | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | I would like to understand more about why it's different, though, because "we've always done it that way" isn't really much of a reason | 20:47 |
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| notmyname | I've asked operators at just about every one of the last 4-5 summits, and have been told that they like it. therefore, from swift deployers, I've not heard a request to change it | 20:47 |
| notmyname | markmcclain: certainly. I only wanted to point that out | 20:47 |
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| dhellmann | notmyname: did you ask them if it would bother them if you did change? | 20:47 |
| russellb | and are these people only using swift? | 20:47 |
| ttx | notmyname: don't you think that... difference is also what's causing people to see swift as different and optional in an openstack deployment, though? | 20:48 |
| ttx | I think it cuts both ways | 20:48 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: +1 | 20:48 |
| notmyname | dhellmann: most of it is over casual conversation or "poll the room" sort of stuff. some said that's what they liked. it's come up in the design sessions several times. | 20:48 |
| markmcclain | notmyname: what are the technical/project management benefits to the unique schedule? | 20:48 |
| ttx | markmcclain: basically, they do feature-badsed releasing | 20:49 |
| vishy | access to features sooner | 20:49 |
| ttx | and also release more often | 20:49 |
| notmyname | markmcclain: it works for those who are contributing to and deploying swift. IOW it's not broken from the perspective of those writing the code | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | notmyname: right, but if the question is "is what we're doing now working for you" that doesn't tell you anything about whether changing would be bad | 20:49 |
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| ttx | which, given that they are really more stable that the rest of openstack, kind of make sense (faster cadence) | 20:49 |
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| notmyname | to be very explicit here, I'm not 100% opposed to changing it. but changing does have a cost (as does keeping it). | 20:50 |
| annegent_ | it's a headache to explain in docs, doesn't mean we won't keep doing it for historical reasons, I mean, Google indexes stuff forever | 20:50 |
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| notmyname | ttx: right. I think the faster access to features and stability has been well-demonstrated over the last 4+ years of semver releases | 20:50 |
| russellb | it's a headache for planning from a distro perspective, too | 20:50 |
| ttx | notmyname: I think we can consider this an identified "difference" and discuss the pros/cons of alignment | 20:50 |
| ttx | in future discussions | 20:50 |
| notmyname | russellb: how? distros take the integrated release. which we fully participate in | 20:50 |
| russellb | notmyname: it's everything in between | 20:51 |
| notmyname | ttx: ack | 20:51 |
| ttx | #info identified difference (which needs analysis and justification): different release schedule | 20:51 |
| ttx | notmyname: maybe address the second concern now | 20:51 |
| notmyname | oslo.config | 20:51 |
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| dhellmann | let's talk oslo in general, that was just one example | 20:51 |
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| notmyname | ok, oslo in general | 20:52 |
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| notmyname | first, we are not going to accept the copy/pasted code externally managed. if it's a library available upstream, then let's consider it | 20:52 |
| notmyname | if it is available, then there are a few questions | 20:52 |
| notmyname | does it fix something that is broken | 20:52 |
| ttx | I think in both cases we need to have an open discussion on why being different has more benefits than drawbacks, to justify the unique case | 20:53 |
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| notmyname | and what is the impact to deployers (dependencies and upgrades) | 20:53 |
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| dhellmann | yeah, I'm less worried about the incubator use. if you don't want that, I don't want to waste time arguing. You'll just have less input into the APIs of the libraries, and I do expect you to use those | 20:53 |
| notmyname | specifically, oslo.config has grown up after swift's config stuff (which does work) has settled. so I'd be happy to discuss that one in particular | 20:53 |
| ttx | #info identified difference: oslo library adoption | 20:53 |
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| ttx | notmyname: it's also a "be more openstack" or "be less openstack" question imho | 20:54 |
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| russellb | really, they both are | 20:54 |
| jeblair | broken for deployers can also mean for new deployers. the differences in config and logging across openstack projects are burdensome for people deploying the whole thing. | 20:54 |
| annegent_ | ttx: and does a defcore inclusion discussion belong in a gap analysis? | 20:54 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:54 |
| ttx | notmyname: given the project history you 're fine with not being openstack where it doesn't help you, but as I said it cuts both ways | 20:54 |
| russellb | annegent_: imo, no | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: right, that's a bit reason for oslo to even exist | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | *big | 20:55 |
| ttx | being "less openstack" left the door more open to alternate solutions | 20:55 |
| annegent_ | russellb: seems like it was already tc-discussed but just checking | 20:55 |
| mikal | annegent_: so, the tc said "integrated release", right? | 20:55 |
| notmyname | ttx: I don't like the characterization of "we don't do X, therefore we aren't "more openstack"" | 20:55 |
| mikal | annegent_: so I think we've designated swift as code to ship for defcore | 20:55 |
| ttx | notmyname: see jeblair remark above | 20:56 |
| russellb | notmyname: but it's when *everyone* else does X | 20:56 |
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| annegent_ | mikal: yep | 20:56 |
| russellb | and is happily doing it to converge | 20:56 |
| ttx | notmyname: for someone that deploys "openstack", swift is configured slightly differently, logs slightly differently | 20:56 |
| zehicle_at_dell | mikal, I thought that the TC chose to get out of designating code | 20:56 |
| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: well, we said we wanted all of the integrated release to be designated | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | russellb: +1 | 20:57 |
| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: but that the board could override us if they wanted | 20:57 |
| russellb | mikal: not exactly ... | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | please let's not re-open that discussion | 20:57 |
| mordred | zehicle_at_dell: what mikal said | 20:57 |
| russellb | and that's a totally different topic anyway | 20:57 |
| zehicle_at_dell | mikal, that's not what I remember. | 20:57 |
| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: but this is a side line, let's keep to swift | 20:57 |
| ttx | But these are difficult questions, that's why I'm not calling them "gaps", as swift lived with those pretty happily so far | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | zehicle_at_dell: we are not talking about defcore right now, please | 20:57 |
| annegent_ | sorry, did not mean to derail gap analysis | 20:57 |
| zehicle_at_dell | dhellmann, I did not bring it up... was addressing a statement | 20:57 |
| ttx | ok, 3 minutes left -- any other area of difference or gap ? | 20:57 |
| ttx | I think we need to have a frank discussion on each of those, but could be a summit thing too, not really urgent | 20:58 |
| notmyname | ttx: to summarize oslo usage, there are areas where we do not us oslo where functionality may need to be considered | 20:58 |
| ttx | but we need to call out all areas | 20:58 |
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| ttx | where current requirements do not fit the swift use case | 20:58 |
| ttx | anything else than release cycle and oslo adoption ? | 20:58 |
| ttx | there is a blurb about "lifecycle of resources managed by the project should be externalized via notifications" | 20:59 |
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| russellb | that falls under the oslo topic to me | 20:59 |
| ttx | not sure swift does that, but then... | 20:59 |
| ttx | ok | 20:59 |
| notmyname | ttx: ya, what is that? | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | russellb: I think that's more for ceilometer integration | 20:59 |
| russellb | oslo.messaging notifications | 21:00 |
| russellb | every other project uses that | 21:00 |
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| ttx | ok, that falls into the oslo bucket | 21:00 |
| ttx | I think we identified the two key areas then | 21:00 |
| ttx | notmyname: i'll be in touch on how we can have a healthy discussion about those | 21:00 |
| notmyname | ttx: ok | 21:00 |
| annegent_ | there's the separate auth that then enables non-keystone installs, but that's not a big concern I don't think, and makes sense for the object storage use | 21:00 |
| * ttx rushes through a few items | 21:00 | |
| ttx | #topic Other governance changes | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 21:01 | |
| ttx | * Add repository glance.store to glance (https://review.openstack.org/107585) | 21:01 |
| ttx | This one is missing markwash's +1, then if nobody objects I'll approve it | 21:01 |
| ttx | * use ">" to indicate multiline mission statements (https://review.openstack.org/109021) | 21:01 |
| ttx | This one is cosmetic, will approve now unless someone yells | 21:01 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 21:01 | |
| ttx | Famous last words ? | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | in case anyone doesn't know, I've moved from Dreamhost to HP. My new email is doug@doughellmann.com, so please update your address books. | 21:01 |
| * mordred wins | 21:01 | |
| russellb | heh | 21:02 |
| ttx | dhellmann: noted and congrats and all. | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | thanks :-) | 21:02 |
| vishy | can we propose a moratorium on mordred’s hiring practicies | 21:02 |
| annegent_ | heh | 21:02 |
| ttx | Remember to think of names to suggest for our user committee nominee | 21:02 |
| vishy | other companies need good engineers too :) | 21:02 |
| mordred | vishy: want a job? | 21:02 |
| devananda | heh | 21:02 |
| ttx | Also I raised a "winter is coming" thread about the integrated release | 21:02 |
| mikal | Well, we need to talk about TC balance at some point | 21:02 |
| reed | lol | 21:02 |
| ttx | you might want to chime in there | 21:02 |
| russellb | mordred: hiring the whole TC? | 21:02 |
| * mordred may have also responded to ttx winter is coming thread .. | 21:03 | |
| devananda | ttx: thanks. that's been on my mind (probably all of our minds, I think) | 21:03 |
| * mordred is sharpening his axe | 21:03 | |
| dhellmann | mikal: fwiw, we talked a lot more about oslo than the tc | 21:03 |
| markmcclain | ttx: thanks for raising that thread | 21:03 |
| ttx | If people contributed to the Night Watch we wouldn't have that problem again | 21:03 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:03 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 5 21:03:32 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:03 |
| mikal | dhellmann: oh, I'm not implying that there is a a hidden agenda | 21:03 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-08-05-20.02.html | 21:03 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-08-05-20.02.txt | 21:03 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-08-05-20.02.log.html | 21:03 |
| mikal | dhellmann: just that we should check the bylaw requiremetns for TC diversity | 21:03 |
| mordred | russellb: they tell me we're spending $1B - I gotta figure out how to put at least some of it to use | 21:03 |
| russellb | that's a lot. | 21:03 |
| ttx | mikal: not reached yet afaik | 21:03 |
| ttx | next meeting | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | mikal: IIRC, that was just the board because it's not a general election, but I could be wrong. | 21:04 |
| mordred | russellb: seems like a lie to me ... | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | mikal: but I do see your point, and did spend some time thinking about it before making my decision | 21:04 |
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| russellb | mordred: sounds nice though | 21:04 |
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| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, eglynn, markwash, jgriffith, mikal, zaneb, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: around ? | 21:04 |
| russellb | markmcclain: you sticking around for this? | 21:04 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:04 |
| mikal | ttx: hi | 21:04 |
| notmyname | here | 21:05 |
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| zaneb | o/ | 21:05 |
| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:05 |
| markmcclain | russellb: yep filling in today | 21:05 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Aug 5 21:05:13 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:05 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:05 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:05 |
| ttx | Agenda for today is available at: | 21:05 |
| mordred | mikal: just to be clear though - if you ever feel as if any of the people working for me actually represent the views of HP, please tell me and I'll have them whipped | 21:05 |
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| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:05 |
| mikal | mordred: lol | 21:05 |
| * devananda retires from the meetings, gets some more rest, and plans to read the project meeting logs later | 21:05 | |
| ttx | #topic Program news | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Program news (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:05 | |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:05 |
| ttx | We skipped 1:1 syncs today except for Nova (which was skipped last week) | 21:05 |
| ttx | So the log only includes Nova this week: | 21:05 |
| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2014/ptl_sync.2014-08-05-08.04.html | 21:06 |
| ttx | If you have news, you can speak now in #info lines | 21:06 |
| * SergeyLukjanov here | 21:06 | |
| ttx | Anything worth mentioning ? | 21:06 |
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| ttx | OK then, probably not... one single item on the agenda then | 21:07 |
| ttx | #topic Nova/Neutron migration and other Neutron gaps | 21:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Nova/Neutron migration and other Neutron gaps (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:07 | |
| ttx | At the TC meeting last week we reviewed progress on the integration gap coverage plans | 21:07 |
| ttx | Neutron was flagged as needing extra discussion, especially where progress affects Nova | 21:07 |
| ttx | So we decided to abuse a cross-project meeting to discuss that, since it's really a cross-project issue :) | 21:07 |
| ttx | last week we skipped it due to nova mid-cycle meetup | 21:08 |
| russellb | jay pipes started a thread about this | 21:08 |
| ttx | so it's happening today | 21:08 |
| russellb | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-August/041931.html | 21:08 |
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| sdague | there was also much discussion at the nova meetup about this given that markmcclain was there | 21:08 |
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| mikal | Yeah, it was good of him to come | 21:08 |
| mikal | Very helpful | 21:08 |
| * eglynn joins the fun belatedly ... | 21:09 | |
| russellb | kind of seems best to continue that thread ... everyone has been in support of cold migration so far | 21:09 |
| russellb | anyone here *not* like that? | 21:09 |
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| mikal | I am ok with that, noting that some people have already done hot migrations | 21:10 |
| dhellmann | seems like a good approach to me, for the reasons stated in the thread | 21:10 |
| markmcclain | I think that documenting cold migration makes the most sense | 21:10 |
| clarkb | also worth noting that infra/qa is working on making it possible to test this stuff with grenade | 21:10 |
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| russellb | clarkb: fancy | 21:10 |
| clarkb | markmcclain: so we may have a bit more than just documentation to give people | 21:10 |
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| dhellmann | cool | 21:10 |
| markmcclain | clarkb: cool | 21:10 |
| russellb | and as far as the TC is concerned, as long as the two projects are in agreement, we should be fine in terms of the gap | 21:10 |
| russellb | as the requirements are just that a plan of some sort exists, and both projects agree to it | 21:11 |
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| sdague | russellb: agreed. I think it's more realistic of what people will actually do as well. | 21:11 |
| russellb | agreed | 21:11 |
| markmcclain | +! | 21:11 |
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| mikal | Heh | 21:11 |
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| russellb | we all just very peacefully agreed, how nice :) | 21:12 |
| mikal | We can argue for a bit if you want | 21:12 |
| ttx | what what | 21:12 |
| dhellmann | go team! :-) | 21:12 |
| mikal | :P | 21:12 |
| russellb | nah. | 21:12 |
| sdague | heh | 21:12 |
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| markmcclain | I'll update the wiki to reflect the change | 21:12 |
| mikal | If someone really really needs a non-cold migration, they can help develop it | 21:12 |
| russellb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee/Neutron_Gap_Coverage | 21:12 |
| sdague | that being said, something that was slid past was scaling issues in neutron itself. | 21:12 |
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| sdague | at least at the meetup | 21:12 |
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| russellb | i think 7 is in the biggest need of clarification | 21:12 |
| russellb | i considered 7 to be the gap that was supposed to cover scaling issues | 21:13 |
| sdague | and it's worth noting that we're actually finding elastic recheck bugs that we were tracking in the gate in nova show on both rax and hp cloud | 21:13 |
| russellb | basically, "neutron with open source plugins needs to not suck more" | 21:13 |
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| russellb | i started trying to add more verbiage here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-gap-clarification | 21:13 |
| clarkb | I will send mail about what sdague says shortly | 21:13 |
| sdague | as in the reasons nodepool gets slow is that neutron falls over | 21:13 |
| sdague | yeh, clarkb has all the details | 21:14 |
| * ttx prefers "cold migration" soon rather to "hot migration at the end of time" | 21:14 | |
| russellb | ttx: +1 | 21:14 |
| russellb | markmcclain: see that link ^^ | 21:14 |
| mikal | +1 | 21:14 |
| russellb | we really need to nail down gap 7 ... | 21:14 |
| russellb | what 7 is supposed to cover i mean | 21:14 |
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| markmcclain | russellb: yes | 21:15 |
| russellb | and would like to update the wiki with the updates to 5,6,7 once there's some consensus around it | 21:15 |
| russellb | posted that to TC list, but no feedback | 21:16 |
| markmcclain | gap7 is only change we might to refine further | 21:16 |
| markmcclain | 'par' is too fuzzy of term | 21:17 |
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| russellb | markmcclain: yep, don't have anything concrete | 21:18 |
| russellb | which is a problem, of course | 21:18 |
| russellb | i think a write-up of known stability / scalability issues is a good place to start | 21:19 |
| russellb | and that could include a summary of work done over the last release or 2 to improve things | 21:19 |
| mikal | That seems like a fair approach | 21:19 |
| mikal | Instead of just saying "fix everything" | 21:19 |
| ttx | markmcclain: should we move to juno-3 all the juno-1 and juno-2 targets in that doc ? | 21:19 |
| mikal | That could even be just a list of bugs in LP with a tag | 21:19 |
| russellb | basically need to convince folks that neutron with an open source backend will be as stable and scalable as nova-network | 21:19 |
| russellb | that's the key | 21:19 |
| russellb | because right now a lot of people aren't convinced | 21:19 |
| russellb | that's the gap i think | 21:20 |
| markmcclain | ok that's fine I think we can develop the set of tested limits | 21:20 |
| russellb | ok | 21:20 |
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| ttx | russellb: that's a good way of looking at it, yes | 21:20 |
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| ttx | "convince folks that neutron with an open source backend will be as stable and scalable as nova-network" | 21:20 |
| russellb | yeah, maybe that's what the gap should say | 21:21 |
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| russellb | anyway, that's all i had for this topic i think | 21:21 |
| ttx | is anyone editing the wiki page, or should I take the lock? | 21:21 |
| * russellb is not | 21:21 | |
| * markmcclain is not | 21:21 | |
| mikal | Nope | 21:21 |
| russellb | ttx: you see my proposed updates on the etherpad? | 21:21 |
| ttx | ok, I'm in | 21:21 |
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| russellb | though some of it is stale already | 21:21 |
| ttx | markmcclain: "Gap 3: Neutron as the default in devstack" -> should I move the completion taregt to j3 ? | 21:22 |
| markmcclain | yes | 21:22 |
| markmcclain | gap5 (DVR) is basically done with a few small cleanups in review | 21:23 |
| markmcclain | discussed with others on neutron team work on better scale metrics for this milestone | 21:23 |
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| russellb | markmcclain: did we ever have the thread about DVR requiring OVS? | 21:24 |
| * russellb didn't see it | 21:24 | |
| ttx | markmcclain: is gap 5 done to the point where DVR can be used as eeplacement for Nova multi-host ? Or more work still in-flight to fully support that? | 21:25 |
| markmcclain | ttx: it is a functional replacement for multi-host | 21:25 |
| ttx | is it usable enough at this point to serve as a functional replacement? | 21:25 |
| markmcclain | russellb: the first pass was implementing for OVS since that will perform the best | 21:25 |
| russellb | i'm not sure anyone actually cares | 21:26 |
| markmcclain | russellb: supporting linuxbridge was on the list for follow up | 21:26 |
| ttx | trying to see if we can consider it closed, from the gap coverage perspective | 21:26 |
| russellb | i just want to air the question so we have record to point to | 21:26 |
| russellb | ttx: i think one last thread is needed | 21:26 |
| ttx | ok | 21:26 |
| russellb | propose that OVS is a requirement | 21:26 |
| russellb | and see if anyone objects | 21:26 |
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| sdague | russellb: ++ | 21:26 |
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| russellb | probably not honestly | 21:26 |
| russellb | but i don't want to assume that | 21:27 |
| * lifeless is heartily in favour of requiring ovs ;) | 21:27 | |
| sdague | I would only suggest backfilling linuxbridge if people flip out, because I expect at this point most people to be getting on the ovs band wagon | 21:27 |
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| markmcclain | russellb: I think that linuxbridge can be feasible if we someone to test and shepard any bug fixes | 21:27 |
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| markmcclain | the ops that want DVR all wanted OVS | 21:27 |
| ttx | ok, I edited gap5 status on the wiki | 21:27 |
| sdague | markmcclain: yeh, but I think just putting a stake in the ground and saying you won't is fine as well as long as it's called out | 21:27 |
| russellb | yep | 21:28 |
| ttx | hmm, I should probably use your text, russellb | 21:28 |
| markmcclain | sdague: I'm fine with that | 21:28 |
| russellb | ttx: up to you, but it's there if you'd like to use it. that was the intention :) | 21:28 |
| ttx | russellb: if markmcclain feels like it matches his status, I'll just copy-paste it now | 21:29 |
| markmcclain | that works | 21:30 |
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| ttx | ok, copypasting... | 21:30 |
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| ttx | ok saved | 21:32 |
| russellb | lgtm | 21:33 |
| russellb | thanks! | 21:33 |
| ttx | markmcclain: feeling confident that we can close all in j3? | 21:33 |
| markmcclain | I am… live migration was the one I was most worried about | 21:33 |
| russellb | i'm at least feeling confident that enough good progress will have been made that we should call this cycle a success | 21:34 |
| mikal | Excellent | 21:34 |
| russellb | even if some bleeds into next cycle | 21:34 |
| markmcclain | now that we've have another path the other options should items we can close | 21:34 |
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| markmcclain | ttx: looks like you've published the updated wiki? | 21:37 |
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| ttx | yes: <ttx> ok saved | 21:37 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:37 |
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| markmcclain | ttx: thanks missed that | 21:37 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: ping | 21:39 |
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| sdague | jeblair: we could proxy clarkb's request | 21:41 |
| clarkb | oh pong | 21:41 |
| clarkb | sorry | 21:41 |
| jeblair | oh yay | 21:41 |
| clarkb | so a couple related things are coming up | 21:41 |
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| clarkb | I am going to switch the zuul default test node type for all projects to trusty in ~2weeks | 21:42 |
| clarkb | it is currently precise with a bunch of projects set to trusty. All of the integrated projects should be on trusty at this point so not a huge change there | 21:42 |
| clarkb | the second thing, and I will do this at the same time is, upgrading tox to tox 1.7.2 on all of our test nodes | 21:43 |
| clarkb | you have probably seen some of my hash seed overrides in tox.ini to make that happen without breaking everything | 21:43 |
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| jeblair | (for clarity: stable branches and other exceptions do and will still use precise as appropriate) | 21:43 |
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| clarkb | we need to get those hash seed override changes merged or fix the tests otherwise new tox will break you | 21:44 |
| clarkb | now this is important so that we can move python3 testing to py34 on trusty as old tox doesn't grok py34. And it will allow us to go back to not caring a whole lot about which version of tox we have installed which has been annoying | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | clarkb: I started running some tests for oslo last week, but didn't finish before my break. Did you do that, or should I continue that work and let you know how it goes? | 21:44 |
| sdague | ttx: so specifically reviews like - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/109751/ - which you have a -2 on | 21:44 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: you should continue doing that and if you give me a list of things you haven't tested yet I cna help too | 21:45 |
| ttx | sdague: ack, needs merge in master first | 21:45 |
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| ttx | sdague: or do you mean that should go in stable/* FIRST? | 21:46 |
| jeblair | ttx: i'm not sure this is the kind of change that rule needs to be applied to | 21:46 |
| clarkb | I intend on sending mail to the list once I can hammer down what my schedule looks like | 21:46 |
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| sdague | ttx: they should go everywhere all at once | 21:46 |
| jeblair | ttx: i think it can go in parallel | 21:46 |
| sdague | what jeblair said | 21:46 |
| clarkb | dhellmann: maybe we can coordinate on that thread and make sure everything is happy | 21:46 |
| ttx | jeblair: OK, no technically a backport | 21:46 |
| sdague | ttx: this is not so much a backport as a "not have everything die in a fire" | 21:46 |
| jeblair | ttx: correct | 21:46 |
| ttx | hrm, we have a freeze on stable/icehouse until Thursday... can that wait until then ? Or should I plead to the stable dudes? | 21:47 |
| clarkb | ttx: it can probably wait until thursday | 21:47 |
| ttx | i can approve the stable/havana one | 21:47 |
| clarkb | ttx: I expect to do this in about 2 weeks. that should give us plenty of time to iron out and merge the things we need to merge | 21:48 |
| sdague | ttx: realize that anyone trying to run the tarballs with new tox for local QA will explode | 21:48 |
| sdague | so there might be value in getting it into the release | 21:48 |
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| ttx | sdague: ok +2/APRVed for stable/havana | 21:49 |
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| markmcclain | I agree with sdague and the risk is really low | 21:50 |
| sdague | yeh, the risk is very low. All it does is force a python random see for unit tests | 21:51 |
| sdague | because new tox randomizes that, which is good practice | 21:51 |
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| ttx | I removed my -2 on the stable/icehouse one... just frozen until Thursday now | 21:51 |
| sdague | but a lot of our unit tests assume hash ordering | 21:51 |
| sdague | which is bad | 21:51 |
| ttx | So in other news, we'll have a 2014.1.2 this week | 21:51 |
| ttx | #info Upcoming 2014.1.2 stable release | 21:52 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:52 |
| ttx | guess not | 21:53 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Aug 5 21:53:40 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-08-05-21.05.html | 21:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-08-05-21.05.txt | 21:53 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone! | 21:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-08-05-21.05.log.html | 21:53 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, thx | 21:55 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, btw we're going to have 2014.1.2 for sahara too (probably a few days later then other projects) | 21:56 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: ack | 21:56 |
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