Thursday, 2014-09-11

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dougwig#startmeeting neutron lbaas14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 11 14:00:04 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dougwig. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas'14:00
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dougwig#topic Announcements14:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:00
dougwigi think we're in the middle of rc1.  i don't think that has any lbaas stuff14:00
johnsommorning team14:00
dougwig#link #link
dougwiglink link14:00
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dougwigkilo specs are around the corner.14:01
dougwigany other announcements?14:01
dougwig#topic Barbican integration -- Keystone Trusts, comments and concerns (rm_work)14:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Barbican integration -- Keystone Trusts, comments and concerns (rm_work) (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:01
dougwigthe floor is yours14:02
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rm_workso, this was my action item from last week (actually to send this to the mailing list) but there were some … complications14:02
rm_workso, this is the workflow I had hoped we could use:
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xgermanI object to the word "hijacks"14:03
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rm_worki'm getting to WHY i use that term specifically14:03
rm_workso, more granularly, it looks like this:
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sbalukoffThat'll take a minute to digest.14:04
jorgemthat doesn't have ad stuff14:04
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rm_workjorgem: the full link is unworkable for IRC <_<14:04
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blogani think my day has been settled14:04
rm_workyou actually only posted like 1/2 of it :P14:05
bloganwtg jorgem14:05
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xgermansomehow jorgem's link worked for me14:05
rm_workerr maybe 1/4 of it14:05
jorgemi see the whole link…oh well14:05
rm_worklook at the diagram14:05
rm_workit goes down to like14:05
rm_work1/8 of the length of the full one14:05
rm_workyeah is it ok if I give people a minute to digest that before I move on?14:06
rm_workyeah seriously14:06
rm_workthe link doesn't work in IRC :P14:06
blogani object to the word "appliance"14:06
ballesI did a copy link and was able to get that link up in my browser14:06
rm_workblogan: I object to your face, but that's equally irrelevant14:06
rm_workballes: it's not the WHOLE diagram14:06
rm_workit cuts off14:07
rm_worktrust me :P14:07
ballesoh I see14:07
blogani blame jorgem for this14:07
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rm_work#link the last link is not useful14:07
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rm_workmaybe people have managed to kind of look through that14:08
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rm_workso, the issue is with the kind of Keystone Tokens that will be coming in14:08
sbalukoffI don't see anything wrong with this sequence at first glance. Note that it is early, and I'm not sure my usual snarkiness is awake.14:08
xgermanyou say that likes a bad thing14:09
rm_workSo, this is great from a usability standpoint, because it is completely transparent to the user14:09
xgermanyep, I oike that14:09
rm_workbut (and this is the reason I used "hijack" in the first chart, on purpose) it really is a bit scary from a security perspective14:09
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rm_workand besides that, apparently Trusts cannot be created using a Token that is already a Trust Token14:10
rm_workwhich is what HEAT and possibly Horizon will be using14:10
samuelbercoviciso in this case instead of having the "user cred" we store the "Trust ID"?14:10
rm_workor a Token which the user has specifically made lower privilege, which apparently is a thing people do?14:10
rm_worksamuelbercovici: yes14:10
rm_workwhich then allows us to "Execute the Trust" with Keystone, which is very similar to getting a token to begin with14:11
vivek-ebayis storing "Trust ID" equally dangerous as storing password ?14:11
ballesrm_work, I know Trove is doing something similar14:11
rm_workwe use our own token to talk to keystone and pass the trust ID, and we get a Trust Token back14:11
samuelbercovicican "Trust ID" be hijacked? in other words if someone elase has the "trus id" can he then read the secured information?14:11
rm_workvivek-ebay: well, the trust is only useful for our account, so they'd need the TrustID *and* a valid token for our service account14:12
rm_worksamuelbercovici: ^^14:12
rm_workthe TrustID is linked specifically between two accounts14:12
sbalukoffSo it's slightly less dangerous than storing the user's password. But only slightly.14:12
rm_workbut Keystone *does* consider them "sensitive data"14:12
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xgermanwell, what's the alternative? Storing the certs in our DB?14:12
sbalukoffIs there any way around that?14:12
samuelbercoviciic. so the hijacker needs to impersonat the LBaaS service user whic is supposed to be non-interactive?14:13
rm_workif someone were to compromise our API box, yeah, they could get the password to our service account from config, and also access to our DB and then to the TrustIDs14:13
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dougwigis this the new way of doing cross-service stuff?  i note that for using nova, there is just a user/pass in the clear in neutron.conf14:13
vivek-ebayI assume this is not specific to LBaaS and should be a common problem. What does Barbican guys suggest ?14:13
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rm_workwell, I have seem some stuff about Postern14:13
dougwigahh, you answered my question one line before i asked it.14:13
rm_workbut it's kind of a chicken/egg problem14:13
xgermanwell, we can use encrypted config files14:14
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xgermanwe can force users to enter pwd at startup...14:14
xgermanthat's am old /solved problem in CS14:14
sbalukoffEew and eew.14:14
rm_workI think that's the right repo14:14
rm_workbut obviously… not ready14:15
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rm_workso anyway, we've got two real issues here14:15
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rm_work1) This whole thing is a security issue (almost just kicking the rock down the road)14:16
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rm_work2) We may not actually be able to do Trust creation on our side -- it may be NECESSARY to have the user do it themselves (though we can provide them a template)14:16
* TrevorV late but present :(14:16
xgerman2) Worries me more than 1)14:16
blogan2 is a terrible user experience14:17
rm_workI don't know if #1 is solvable at the moment, and this is still better than just plaintext certs in the DB14:17
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xgermanrm_work +114:17
rm_workso yes, #2 here is my real discussion topic14:17
xgermancan horizon do #2?14:17
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samuelbercoviciso in other words, the user authorizes lbaas to be allowed access to his secrets, right?14:17
rm_workWell, I need to get in touch with someone from Horizon -- I asked in their IRC channel yesterday but never got a response14:18
ballesIt looks like the use has to do something with rehards to trusts. The doc says: In both cases, the users authorizes it at setup time to perform this action any time in the future, long after the token is expired.14:18
rm_worksamuelbercovici: yes14:18
ballesrm_work, ^^^ but I am sure you know that already14:18
rm_workballes: right, it allows us to essentially get a new token14:18
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rm_workon our own14:18
rm_workbut the issue is that Creating Trusts requires a "full privilege" user token14:18
rm_workand many of the use-cases will have some other service already using a lower privilege Trust Token14:19
xgermanso let's split that problem14:19
rm_workso we'll be given a token that doesn't have the ability to create a Trust14:19
bloganeven if horizon exposes it, if horizon uses a trust then horizon would not be able to create another trust for lbaas14:19
rm_workblogan: yeah, and i am not 100% clear on that14:20
xgermanI am ok with the command line being cumbersome14:20
rm_workbut i don't know how else horizon would work?14:20
rm_workif we think 99% of our users will come from the API, then … whatever? we just ignore the issue and tell them to use a real token14:20
xgermanbut Horizon should be more like press an Accept button14:20
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rm_workif we think a ton of people will come in through Horizon (which is my theory) then this may still be a problem14:20
dougwigis this a case of openstack deciding that something "should" be a certain way, telling people to do it that way, even though it's really used everywhere in an entirely different fashion, and is nowhere near ready for the "new and correct" way?14:20
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samuelbercovicirm_work: is there a way that the uses will just authorize lbaas service user access to the private info?14:21
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ballesrm_work, ok make sense.14:21
rm_workdougwig: I thought so at first14:21
rm_workdougwig: but the Keystone guys actually showed me that in a lot of cases my plan will actually fail14:21
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samuelbercoviciactualy since lbaas runs inside neutron, it may be the neutron service user14:21
rm_workdougwig: HEAT was the certain example14:21
rm_worksamuelbercovici: correct14:21
rm_workfor now it is the Neutron service user14:21
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rm_worksamuelbercovici: so, the way to just "authorize our user" on their side is for them to hit Keystone and create the Trust themselves (using a template we provide) which is the officially recommended approach14:22
rm_workbut is what everyone is saying is an unacceptable user experience14:22
rm_work(I don't disagree that it is quite cumbersome for the user)14:22
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dougwigso this sounds like it'll be something that we need horizon solve (and which a lot of projects will need).14:22
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xgermanI am ok for it to becumbersome when using the CLI14:22
blogansay horizon uses a full privelaged token, and it makes setting up trusts simple for a user, wouldn't horizon need some way to know which service account to set a trust up with?14:23
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rm_workSo, I don't know that this is something we have the knowledge to really answer right now, but I want people to be aware of what's going on14:23
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rm_workblogan: also yes, but we could code that in as part of our plugin maybe?14:23
samuelbercoviciok. so the user creates the cer, key and container and afther that, runs the "template...." whicg grants access to neutron services. did you talk with VPNaaS guys on this?14:23
bloganrm_work: actually sounds like an admin api type of operation14:23
rm_worksamuelbercovici: not yet, I only got this far in the process of understanding this yesterday afternoon14:24
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rm_workblogan: erg. yeah14:24
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rm_workso, the *original* original plan was to just straight up have the Neutron service account be a "god account"14:24
rm_workand we could just read data willy-nilly14:25
rm_workbut that's actually scary enough that i'd never want to see it in production14:25
xgermanand why did that fail?14:25
bloganrm_work: this is probably a bad idea, but what is stopping us from just reusing the token the user passes to lbaas and talking to barbican with that? other than the token expiring and we have no way to talk to barbican later14:25
samuelbercovicitheoreticaly speaking, the LBaaS horizon module, may have a section used to upload certificates as part of the lb creation, in this case, it may be easier to implement this "authorization" part in there....14:25
rm_workblogan: um… the thing you just said is the problem14:25
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ballesrm_work, how is it today? Is neutron admin only admin for Neutron?14:25
rm_workballes: yes, I believe so14:25
bloganokay so thats the only problem14:25
rm_workand possibly on specific other services14:25
rm_workblogan: yes.14:26
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rm_workso the OTHER option is to go all the way back to one of the original alternatives, which is: hijack user token, read data from barbican, store data on the neutron-service-account14:26
rm_work(back in Barbican)14:27
rm_workthe shadow-copy thing14:27
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dougwigthat's a lot to digest at 8am.  :)  i assume you will be following up with the horizon guys and coming up with a plan?14:27
rm_workthat would stop us from needed to ever retain access to the user's data14:27
rm_workdougwig: that's the idea14:27
samuelbercovicirm_work: this is worse.14:27
rm_worksamuelbercovici: i agree14:27
samuelbercoviciif we wanted to store such data in neutron, we would not be jumping through such hoops14:27
rm_worksamuelbercovici: i mean, we'd be storing it in Barbican again14:28
rm_worksamuelbercovici: just, using our service account14:28
rm_workbut yeah, it's not ideal either14:28
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xgermanHaving a PKI is exactly the reason we don't ewant copies14:28
johnsomI don't like the idea of duplicating the certs14:28
rm_workI hope people realize I'm still not advocating this14:28
samuelbercoviciyep, i do not like this14:28
bloganquit advocating it14:29
rm_workI just wanted to get people on the same page14:29
dougwigok, let's circle back to this next week (or the ML) when you get more info on the user experience14:29
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rm_workI don't think we can solve this with discussion right now14:29
rm_workbut if anyone thinks of anything… let me know :)14:29
rm_workkeep this tumbling in your subconscious :)14:30
samuelbercoviciand to me it has the same problem as geting authorized to acces the data. if the attack vectos is by jeoperdizing the neutron service account, than both solution will have similar cosequences14:30
ballesrm_work, I appreciate you bringing this up for discussions. Has this been on the ML already?  I am behind on my emails14:30
rm_workballes: no, I did't get it "finished" so I never sent it out14:30
rm_workI may send our a brief summary of this14:30
rm_workeven though it's still not a finished proposal14:30
vivek-ebay>> I assume this is not specific to LBaaS and should be a common problem. What does Barbican guys suggest ?14:31
ballesOk I am going to ask Guang from our keystone teamto chime in on this thread. He had some ideas around Truts14:31
rm_workvivek-ebay: the only idea they had so far was mentioning the Postern project14:31
rm_workballes: ok, thanks14:31
dougwiglet's move on, and continue this next week or on the ML.  good stuff, rm_work14:31
ballesvivek-ebay, I agree with you especially the other advanced services14:31
rm_workdougwig: yeah, didn't mean to take *half the meeting* :P14:31
samuelbercovicidoes babican has similar notion of also including the node from which the information is requested (same as ssh)? in this case, you can only get the information using neutron user but also only if it is from the neutron(s) api nodes14:31
dougwigrm_work: it's good, there wasn't anything else of substance on the agenda.  :)14:32
rm_worksamuelbercovici: it might be possible to do this from their RBAC policy? MAYBE? But it is not a native concept14:32
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dougwigok, and now for a less contentious topic...14:32
dougwig#topic Incubator update14:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Incubator update (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:32
rm_worksamuelbercovici: there is something coming down the pipe for more granularly scoped keystone trusts, but it isn't here yet14:33
dougwigmestery, anything new to report?14:33
ballessamuelbercovici, In our deployment we have certs all over the place. I believe a lot of our security is added when we deploy the services as part of our cloud14:33
ballesthe same with username/password It is all encrypted14:33
mesterydougwig: Only that markmcclain and I hope to get it rolling this week again. We were focusing on FFE BPs, but the gate queue is now at 30+ hours so ... :(14:33
ballesdougwig, I had the same question :-) I am assuming you mean around the incubator thingy14:34
rm_workmestery: do you guys operate on Valve Time? :P14:34
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mesteryrm_work: Something like that I think ;)14:34
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rm_work(for reference: )14:34
rm_workmestery: :P14:34
bloganits a combination of valve and blizzard time14:34
TrevorVlols at rm_work14:34
samuelbercovicii guess it was "Destiny" ;-)14:34
mesteryHonestly, I apologize for how long this has all taken, we're doing our best here.14:35
rm_workmestery: yeah, all in good humor :)14:35
ballesmestery, What's FFE?14:35
mesteryYesterday we spent a few hours looking at a huge spike in neutron full job failures14:35
mesteryWhich ended up being a nova patch14:35
mesteryBut the finger was pointed at neutron first :)14:35
mesteryFFE == Feature Freeze Exception14:35
rm_workthat's always fun <_<14:35
mesteryBPs which got on are due by tomorrow14:35
mesteryrm_work: ++14:35
dougwiglook at the link that opened the meeting for a list of rc1/ffe blueprints that need reviewer eyeballs.14:36
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mesterydougwig: ++ and thanks!14:36
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dougwig#topic Open Discussion14:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:37
ballesmestery, it is clear to me that you guys need to delegate "dev-core" power to the incubated Neutron projects14:37
ballesotherwise you will continue to be bottlenecks14:37
dougwiganything else to discuss today?14:37
mesteryballes: :)14:37
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jorgemI think he agreed with you ;)14:38
dougwigthere's been a long discussion from the nova team on the ML about that, and kyle has made a few appearances.  it's worth reading.14:38
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ballesdougwig, thanks for the pointer. I will read it after the IRC is done14:39
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samuelbercovicion another matter: summit Paris talks. Are all the people patricipating in LBaaS v2 talk planning to attend?14:40
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vivek-ebayare voting results out ?14:40
blogansamuelbercovici: as of now, yes, but could be subject to change14:40
dougwigsamuelbercovici: yes14:40
dougwigvivek-ebay: emails were sent out with results14:40
bloganand its totally out of my control if it does cahnge14:40
vivek-ebaycan we please summarize lbaas selections ?14:41
dougwigblogan: if you're not there, we will blame all warts on you and rackspace.14:41
vivek-ebaywhich topics got selected14:41
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sbalukoffsamuelbercovici: I'll definitely be there.14:41
ballesblogan, This is great news! you guys will be at the summit14:41
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rm_workballes: hopefully, yes, but we will see what the next month or so brings14:41
ballesThe Octavia talk  didn't get selected :-(14:41
vivek-ebayWe at ebay missed submitting topics for talks due to internal firefight. We had some great stuff to showcase.14:42
bloganballes: not all of us but some of us, though some things have come up that lead me to believe all or most that were going may not be now, but I won't know until tomorrow probably14:42
rm_workvivek-ebay: :(14:42
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ballesblogan, Crossing my fingers for you guys14:42
rm_workblogan: you think tomorrow? :P14:42
bloganballes: i would hav ebeen surprised if it did, no one knows what it is14:42
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vivek-ebaywe got miss by few days. Requested exceptions from core...didn't got :(14:43
bloganrm_work: yes, through the grapevine14:43
ballesblogan,  :) The HP reviewers commented that ti was more a design session topic14:43
rm_workblogan / balles: yeah, it's sad no one knows what it is so it doesn't get voted on, so no talk, so no one knows what it is :P14:43
sbalukoffvivek-ebay: That's too bad, eh.14:43
blogantime to put that HP marketing power behind Octavia, super bowl commercials14:43
samuelbercovicivivek-ebay: is there still the notion of "flash talks"?14:44
ballesDid we get more than one talk? Sam & co. 's LBaaS V2. Anything else14:44
vivek-ebayyes, 10 mins14:44
rm_workHP Hellion: now with the power of Octavia! *queue roman gods B footage*14:44
vivek-ebaynot enough...14:44
bloganballes: i dont believe so14:44
samuelbercoviciI also do:
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bloganah interesting, ill attend that one if I do go14:45
rm_workIf I go, I'll be doing a lightning talk on Barbican service integration… assuming it eventually works out :P14:46
johnsomrm_work That is funny14:46
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bloganrm_work: I have a feeling that talk would need more than 10 mins14:46
samuelbercovicirm_work: eventualy might weight a kilo14:46
dougwiganything else anyone wants to discuss?14:46
xgermanwe need Octavia stickers and T-Shirts :-)14:47
rm_workxgerman: ah, yes14:47
blogani would like to discuss...bears14:47
rm_workwe can have a little Amphora as part of our logo14:47
dougwigblogan: black or grizzly?14:47
* blogan vomits into an amphora14:47
VijayB_samuelbercovici: lol14:47
rm_workmaybe an Amphora on a scale? :P14:47
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xgermanwith bears to make blogan happy14:47
bloganif bears came along and smashed a room full of amphorae, that'd be great14:48
rm_workalright, discussion has sufficiently devolved ^_^14:48
blogana great marketing ploy as well14:48
dougwigi'm sensing an imminent endmeeting....  :)14:48
sbalukoffxgerman: Totally!14:48
bloganthis is highly relevant14:48
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* rm_work gets out his Photoshop hat14:48
bloganend it dougwig14:48
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"14:48
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 11 14:48:55 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)14:48
openstackMinutes (text):
dougwigbye folks14:49
rm_worklol yes, make the pain stop14:49
sbalukoffThanks, y'all!14:49
blogandance puppet dance!14:49
vivek-ebaybye all14:49
sbalukoff(Yay, back to bed for me!)14:49
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rm_worksbalukoff: tempted :P but i am sufficiently awake now from so much typing T_T14:49
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eglynn#startmeeting ceilometer15:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 11 15:00:50 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eglynn. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:00
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eglynnhey folks, who is around for the ceilo weekly?15:01
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eglynn#topic Juno-3 status and FFEs15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Juno-3 status and FFEs (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:01
nsajepeople taking a rest after j-3 :)15:01
eglynnso we've made some progress on the FFEs :)15:01
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eglynnnealph has for his pass-event-format landed with a bunch of +1s from the PaaS side of the house, nice work! :)15:02
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nealpheglynn: thx!15:02
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eglynnthe main resource renormalization patch for bigger-data-sql is safely landed15:03
eglynnso the outstanding one there is the sql-a ORM->core switch15:03
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nsajethat's great news15:04
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eglynncdent has been doing some detailed measurements of the performance benefits of the ORM switchout using rally15:04
gordcthanks to all those who've helped test out the performance patches.15:04
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eglynngordc: agreed :)15:05
cdentthe stack of variables involved in any performance test makes it hard to be absolutely sure about the details of the improvement, but its definitely an improvement15:05
gordccdent: good to hear.15:06
eglynncdent, gordc: I'm thinking we should declare victory on it sooner rather than later as the window of opportunity to land this may start closing soon15:06
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cdentI think that's fair and safe.15:06
gordceglynn: you mean the sqla-core patch or the tc gap requirement?15:07
eglynn... so I think I'll go ahead and approve, and we can close out quantifying the performance gain in parallel15:07
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gordceglynn: gotcha... i think that's safe.15:07
eglynngordc: mainly the sqla-core patch in the short term15:08
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eglynngordc: ... but in the longer term also the overall aggregated benefit of all the sql-a improvements made during Juno15:08
gordceglynn: makes sense to me.15:08
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eglynn(as we're likely to have to make an end-of-cycle progress report to the TC)15:08
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eglynnthe last outstanding FFE is ipmi-support15:09
llu-laptopsorry to shout out here, the ipmi  patches,n,z will appreciate more reviews15:09
eglynnstill under active review15:09
eglynnllu-laptop: yep, it feels like it getting close, gordc has added a bunch of feedback on the latter patch15:09
gordcllu-laptop: i gave it a quick look... i'm not really familiar enough to approve it.15:10
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nsajellu: I'll get to it after the meeting as well15:10
eglynncool, thanks folks15:10
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llu-laptopeglynn, gordc: thx. Sorry gzhai isn't around here now, will notify him tomorrow morning15:10
llu-laptopnsaje: thanks for the review15:10
eglynnllu-laptop: thank you!15:11
eglynnso other than those 3 FFEs, we've also got a bunch of bugs still targetted at RC115:11
eglynnI'm going to start bumping the non-critical ones that look like they won't make it15:12
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llu-laptopwhat's the status of bug
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1337761 in ceilometer "significant performance degradation when ceilometer middleware for swift proxy uses" [High,In progress]15:12
llu-laptopit seems no patch for that?15:12
eglynnso if you've any further fixes up your sleeves, please get them proposed soon :)15:12
eglynncdent: can you speak to that one? ^^^15:12
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gordci just got a patch in... 30hr merge time15:13
cdentthere was a patch in progress on that and it stalled out. nsaje and DinaBelova gave lots of good feedback that the author didn't appear to respond to15:13
gordci'm just happy i didn't need to recheck15:14
eglynncdent: ok, it doesn't look like its likely to get traction by RC115:14
eglynnsounds like a candidate for bumping, sadly15:14
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eglynnjust to clarify the endgame for RC1 ...15:14
eglynnI think I mis-spoke at this meeting last week15:14
cdentI think one of the reasons it stalled is because several people said "we should totally change that and not even have it in the ceilometer package"15:15
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eglynnuntil RC1, everything just needs to be landed on master, no need for backporting15:15
eglynnthen the propose/juno branch will be cut, based off the juno-rc1 tag15:15
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eglynnfrom RC1 on, any patches for RCn (n>1) will need to be landed on master first then backported to proposed/juno15:16
eglynnmeanwhile master is opened for kilo development15:16
nsajegood approach!15:16
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llu-laptopso no close window on master branch?15:16
eglynnso expect a lot of scrutiny from the rel mgr for any post-RC1 patches, definitely in our interest to get as much as possible landed for RC115:17
cdentis there a date for RC1 to be cut or is that at the whim of ttx15:17
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nsaje25th of Sep if I'm not mistaken15:17
ttxcdent: no, it's when the RC1 buglist is empty15:18
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eglynncdent: not a set date, it's decided by agreement with PTLs, likely to be EoW next week15:18
cdentthanks ttx :)15:18
ttxideally in the second half of September, yes15:18
nsajelikely not if there's a 30hr merge time :)15:19
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eglynnis it my imagination, or has that merge time been slowing reducing since the juno-3 gate rush?15:20
eglynn... me wonders if 30hrs was an outlier15:20
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gordceglynn: you don't want to look at zuul15:20
eglynngordc: ... it generally makes my eyes bleed :(15:20
* cdent loves to look at zuul15:21
* eglynn hates the feeling of deflation when a nearly-complete verify is cancelled and all jobs for that patch are reset to "queued"15:22
eglynn... so close, and yet so far15:22
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eglynnOK, to sum up ... overall I think we're in relatively good shape on the FFE BPs, so we need to switch focus a bit to bugs over the coming week15:23
eglynnshall we move on?15:23
eglynn#topic TSDaaS/gnocchi status15:23
cdentso to clarify: master is not kilo until rc>=2?15:23
*** openstack changes topic to "TSDaaS/gnocchi status (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:23
eglynnis the pasta-chef around, I wonder?15:24
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eglynncdent: no, master == kilo from RC1 onwards15:25
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cdentthanks eglynn15:25
silehtI will start the work around the ceilometer dispatcher15:25
gordceglynn: we have an internal meeting15:25
eglynncdent: there way not even be an RC2 if we don't need it (RCn with n>=2 is on-demand)15:25
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eglynngordc: cool enough, let's punt gnocchi so15:25
eglynn#topic Tempest status15:26
*** openstack changes topic to "Tempest status (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:26
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eglynnthis one may be short also, as DinaBelova is officially on vacation IIUC15:26
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gordci think we're going to need to start reenabling tests post juno given state of gate.15:26
eglynngordc: do you mean the nova notification test that was skipped?15:27
gordceglynn: yeah. seems like there's bigger issues... i'm not sure there's anything specifically wrong with our notification test though15:27
gordcdoesn't seem like it based on memory/cpu usage of ceilometer services15:28
eglynngordc: ... yeah, /me notes Dina's comment "all the gate slaves eating kind of 30-40% of RAM on them (unfortunately, ZooKeeper among them :))"15:28
gordc^^ memory usage issues15:29
eglynn... that ZK usage mentioned is orthogonal to our central agent scale out, right?15:29
cdentthe devstack stuff I'm working on right now is related to "larger issues" of process not existing for random reasons, e.g. the notification agent being unavailable15:30
cdentnot sure if that is related here15:30
DinaBelovaeglynn, there is the issue in the fact that on all the slaves ZK is installed and doing just noothing eating the RAM - in production it's ok, in the gate - not so much15:30
cdentbut there's a huge slew of changes related to memory and cpu usage in devstack queued up15:30
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DinaBelovathat's not the central agent HA issue or any thing like that - that's infra issue15:31
gordci'm not sure how decisions are made to pull in dependencies... technically the central agent scale out isn't being enabled in gates15:31
cdentthe zk is apparently leakage from other images and is supposed to be fixed soonish15:31
DinaBelovaand ZK is not the only service there15:31
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cdent(according to discussion tuesday night)15:31
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DinaBelovagordc, ++15:31
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* DinaBelova found the laptop :)15:31
eglynnDinaBelova: a-ha, so that ZK installation in the jenkins slaves would have pre-dated the ceilometer central agent's usage of ZK via tooz, right?15:32
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eglynngordc: yeah that was my working assumption also15:32
nsajeeglynn: central agent tests don't really use neither tooz, nor ZK15:32
DinaBelovaeglynn, for the gate we can even use memcached15:32
DinaBelovanot so reosurce eating thing in the gate15:32
DinaBelovansaje ++15:32
DinaBelovawe're using tooz15:32
DinaBelovanot the ZK directly15:32
eglynnDinaBelova, nsaje: cool, got it15:33
nsajeDinaBelova: I'm guessing coordination_url is empty in devstack (as it's the default), no?15:33
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DinaBelovansaje, I'm 100% sure yes15:33
DinaBelovano coordination url set there for sure15:33
DinaBelovajd__ ++15:33
eglynnnsaje: I guess the longer term goal would be to enable central agent scale out in the gate also?15:33
DinaBelovaI meant hello :)15:33
nsajeeglynn: definitely15:34
eglynnnsaje: cool15:34
DinaBelovaeglynn, of course - but with memcached for the first time I guess15:34
nsajeeglynn: but we could easily use memcached15:34
gordceglynn: +1, be good to have it enabled and verified.15:34
eglynnyeap, aggreed15:34
gordcnsaje: yeah memcached might be better... it works fine locally for me too.15:34
nsajeas we won't be doing functional testing with simulating agent crashes etc. in the gate15:34
nsajeso no worry about backend performance15:34
DinaBelovagordc, ZK works good as well :) it's just not the gating thing :)15:35
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eglynnnsaje: still if we're recommending tooz/zk in production, that's what we should have running in the gate also, right?15:35
gordcDinaBelova: agreed15:35
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DinaBelovaeglynn, I propose in this case periodical jobs probably15:35
eglynn(even if we don't explicitly test the scale in/out)15:35
jd__shouldn't be a problem to have ZK in the gate, it's already installed at least15:35
nsajeeglynn: ok, good point15:35
jd__we use it for tooz testing15:35
DinaBelovajd__, well... that's actually the problem15:36
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DinaBelovajd__ - did you see RAM overusage thread?15:36
jd__I saw it but didn't read it through15:36
eglynnjd__: see Dina's comment on ... "on all the gate slaves eating kind of 30-40% of RAM on them (unfortunately, ZooKeeper among them :))"15:36
DinaBelovajd__, it turned out that ZK is one of the things installed to all the gate slaves that eat too much RAM15:36
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jd__too bad15:37
DinaBelovait was a big noise around it previous week15:37
DinaBelovajd__ - well, this overusage is not only becasue of ZK15:37
DinaBelovabut it's among of the 'bad' services15:37
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eglynnok, so it sounds like the ZK issue is something we'll need to solve in order for the ceilo central agent to be run "realistically" in the gate15:38
DinaBelovathe problem is that currently it's installed to all the slaves no matter if we need it for the testing or not15:38
DinaBelovaeglynn, yes, indees15:38
DinaBelovajd__, to learn more about that RAM overusage research you may ping infra folks15:38
cdentthere's some work in progress to narrow the number of workers that a lot of services are using which will make room for things like zk15:38
llu-laptopDinaBelova: which openstack service is actually use ZK currently in gate?15:38
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DinaBelovallu-laptop, it is installed to test tooz15:39
jd__nova might be15:39
eglynnservice groups?15:39
DinaBelovacdent, yes, I hope so as well15:39
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jd__eglynn: yes15:40
gordccdent: just fyi, i enabled multi workers for the collector to verify multi-worker functionality works... but kept it at half # of core15:41
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eglynnok, so we're not going to solve the problem here & now ... but was there a sense on that discussion that ZK is gonna ne removed from the mix by the infra folks?15:41
* cdent nods at gordc 15:42
eglynnis gonna *be15:42
cdenteglynn: somebody was looking into it to "fix the leakage"15:42
cdentso that it was only there where it was needed15:42
eglynn... i.e. if it's considered one of the 'bad' services15:42
eglynncdent: a-ha, ok15:42
DinaBelovaeglynn, it was the beginning of this discussion when I saw it...15:42
DinaBelovaso I'm not sure about the result15:42
eglynnright-o, all good info ... seems like the discussion/investigation is still active15:43
DinaBelovaI guess cdent is closer to the truth here than I15:43
cdentI'm just reporting what I heard in os-qa, but there wasn't any timetable15:43
DinaBelovaeglynn, yeah... because nobody wants to remove innocent package there :)15:43
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eglynnDinaBelova: yeah, that would be unjust :)15:44
DinaBelovacdent, I was lurking the infra channel (my irc client was ringing about words like ZK, etc.) but it was ~1am in my time zone that time so I just left it15:44
cdentYeah, seems like all the action for those guys in the late or early hours15:45
eglynnyeap, unfortunate timing from the European perspective15:45
cdentsince jd__ is back can we get a gnocchi update before we run out?15:45
eglynnjd__: BTW we punted on the gnocchi topic earlier, do you want to circle back to that?15:46
eglynncdent: snap! :)15:46
jd__sure I don't have much to say though15:46
jd__I've resumed my work on the archive policy today15:46
jd__and I'm planning to continue and get this merged ASAP15:46
jd__eglynn: I'll need you to review on that15:46
jd__I need to also continue to discuss with you about InfluxDB15:46
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eglynnjd__: I'll take another look at those patches before EoD today15:46
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jd__the collector dispatcher job should be handled by sileht, finger crossed :)15:47
jd__we also need to check some things about the result fetch part15:47
jd__I think there's some thing wrong with how we merge data from different timeseries15:47
jd__(we already discussed that but didn't make any change)15:47
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jd__and once that's done we should be pretty good towards having a Juno release15:48
jd__(all what I just said I mean :)15:48
eglynnsileht: can you sync up with ildikov on that dispatcher work15:48
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eglynnjd__: "the result fetch part" is on the measurements get from multiple entities or?15:49
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jd__nop, it's about that which I'd call aggregation15:50
jd__it's about if we have results spanned over multiple archives for an entity (with different granularity) the current code merges them15:50
jd__and the result are kinda "weird" in the end15:50
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eglynnjd__: a-ha, got it, thanks15:50
jd__there's no technical challenge, just a correct design to pick15:50
jd__and change the code to reflect what we think is right15:51
jd__I'll probably run a mail thread for that when I get to it15:51
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DinaBelovasileht, also idegtiarov wanted to work on the dispatcher - he said about that ~2week ago on the meeting - he was on the vacation last week, so the talk was about to start work on it this one or the next15:51
jd__(when I don't know I ask :-)15:51
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eglynnjd__: yeah, a thread on that would be good, thanks!15:51
eglynnDinaBelova: yep, so sileht, idegtiarov & ildikov will need to coordinate their efforts on that to avoid any duplication of effort15:53
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DinaBelovaeglynn, yeah, +115:53
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eglynn#topic open discussion15:54
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:54
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eglynnjd__ has nominated two new ceilometer cores in the past couple days :)15:55
vrovachevapplause :)15:55
eglynnvrovachev: indeed :)15:56
cdentyeah, +1 on both of those15:56
nsajethanks for the nomination jd__ !15:56
cdentdo I get a vote or am I only able to unofficially say "woot!"?15:56
eglynnif you haven't done so yet, please consider chiming in on the ML by Monday next15:56
eglynncdent: all w00ts will be appreciated I'm sure :)15:57
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eglynnanyone go anything else they'd like to chat about?15:58
eglynnright-o, let's call this a wrap so15:58
eglynn... thanks all for a productive meeting! :)15:59
eglynn#endmeeting ceilometer15:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:59
nsajesee you guys!15:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 11 15:59:10 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:59
openstackMinutes (text):
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silehteglynn, sure16:11
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mtreinish#startmeeting qa17:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 11 17:00:49 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mtreinish. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: qa)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'qa'17:00
mtreinishhi, who's here today?17:01
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mtreinish^^^ Today's agenda17:01
mtreinishok, let's get started I'm sure more people will trickle in later17:02
mtreinish#topic  Summit topic brainstorming (mtreinish)17:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit topic brainstorming (mtreinish) (Meeting topic: qa)"17:02
mtreinishI just wanted to put up another reminder about this etherpad in case someone missed it17:02
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mtreinishif anyone has a topic they'd like to discuss at summit please add it there17:02
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mtreinishwhen we get closer to summit I expect we'll have a good portion of a meeting or 2 dedicated to sorting through and prioritizing what's listed there17:03
mkodererdo we already know how many slot we have?17:03
mtreinishmkoderer: not yet17:03
mtreinishalso the format will probably be different with the last day being kinda of like a midcycle17:04
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mtreinishso even if a topic doesn't get a slot we can discuss it during the free form part17:04
mtreinishwhich is why I wanted to give everyone more time so we've got a nice long list :)17:04
andreafI've seen the new topic from dmorita - I hope the work I did on auth framework in tempest will help, but it would be great to discuss it and collect more input17:04
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mtreinishandreaf: yeah that might fall into the tempest-lib discussion too17:05
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mtreinishbecause it's really about stabilizing the auth interface17:05
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mtreinishanyway does anyone have anything else to bring up about this topic?17:06
mtreinishotherwise let's move on17:06
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mtreinish#topic Specs Review17:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs Review (Meeting topic: qa)"17:06
dkranzmtreinish: Results of bug day?17:07
mtreinishdoes anyone have any open specs reviews that they'd like to get eyes on17:07
mtreinishdkranz: heh, that's a spec?17:07
dkranzmtreinish: No, it was before on the agenda. But we can wait.17:07
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mtreinishdkranz: oops, forgot to refresh before the meeting17:08
mtreinishstale page17:08
dkranzmtreinish: np :)17:08
mtreinishdkranz: we'll do that topic next17:08
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mtreinishif no one has an open spec to bring up (which isn't surprising given our place in the cycle) let's move on17:09
andreafmtreinish: so the only spec I have is I just uploaded a new patchset17:09
dkranzmtreinish: Don't seem to be other active specs now17:09
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mtreinishandreaf: yeah, I haven't looked at the lastest rev, but it can probable be fast pathed in today or tomorrow17:09
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mtreinishoh I guess the only other thing is to review dhellmann's rss patches17:09
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mtreinishshould be simple enough to review17:10
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mtreinish#topic Results of Bug Day17:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Results of Bug Day (Meeting topic: qa)"17:10
mtreinishdkranz: ok you're up17:10
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dkranzThere was not that much participation in bug day17:11
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dkranzWe still have 75 New17:11
dkranzThere were a lot of triage issues with logs no longer being available17:11
dkranzI think we need to triage in real time and proposed a weekly rotation17:12
jlanouxis there any requirements to triage?17:12
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dkranzjlanoux: not really17:12
mtreinishdkranz: well that happens if the logs are old enough. I don't think we can even keep 6 months anymore17:12
dkranzmtreinish: right17:12
jlanouxdkranz: ok, so non-core can do it?17:12
mtreinishjlanoux: I think there is a tempest bug group in lp, but joining it should be open17:12
dkranzmtreinish: and we only keep logstash for 9 days17:13
jlanouxmtreinish: ok17:13
mtreinishdkranz: one thing I've been thinking about doing is having someone who watches the bug list and keeps on top of triage17:13
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mtreinishsome of the other teams have been doing this and it's working well17:14
mkoderershould we have a weekly rotation.. so every week somebody that is responsible for bugs comming in?17:14
dkranzmkoderer: that is what I proposed17:14
mkodererdkranz: ok... fine for me17:14
jlanouxdkranz: mkoderer +117:15
dkranzI'm not sure we will find a volunteer to do it always17:15
coolsvapmtreinish, drankis mkoderer I am in for a week in a month +117:15
mtreinishI asked gmann ealier and he said he'd be willing to do it17:15
mtreinishbut sure we can give a weekly rotation a try17:15
dkranzmtreinish: great. even better.17:15
dkranzmtreinish: It could work either way as long as there is a volunteer.17:16
dkranzmtreinish: The question is whether we consider it to be a Core reviewer task or not17:16
coolsvapmtreinish, i think we can have a group of 3-4 people and a volunteer who can always delegate to someone if he's busy/unavailable at certain periond17:16
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dkranzYes, a volunteer is a degenerate case of rotation17:17
mtreinishdkranz: I think doing at least some bug triage is a responsibility for a core reviewer17:17
dkranzmtreinish: that is why I suggested rotation17:17
mtreinishyeah I'm thinking if gmann is willing to watch the list and track things we do that17:18
mtreinishand still have a weekly rotation of people doing triage17:18
dkranzmtreinish: because I doubt any core reviewer wil volunteer full-time17:18
dkranzmtreinish: ok, that is fine. I will post an etherpad with weeks/dates and send something out to the list17:18
mtreinishdkranz: ok cool, and talk to gmann about it too17:19
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dkranzmtreinish: so what exactly will gmann do that you discussed?17:19
dkranzas a volunteer?17:19
mtreinish#action dkranz to work on setting up a weekly bug triage rotation17:19
mtreinishmostly keep on top of tracking bug stats, and bringing bugs to attention of people if they need it17:20
dkranzmtreinish: ok, so not really triage17:20
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dkranzmtreinish: that's fine17:20
dkranzmtreinish: he can poke people who signed up for a week but are not active enough :)17:20
mtreinishwell triage would be part of it, but it was more of an administrative thing17:21
mtreinishdkranz: yep :)17:21
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dkranzmtreinish: ok17:21
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dkranzmtreinish: I think that's it for that topic17:21
mtreinishok then let's move on17:21
andreafmtreinish: before you go to bp17:21
andreafmtreinish, forgot to mention
andreafmtreinish, ssh auth spec17:21
mtreinishandreaf: heh, well that falls to me :)17:22
andreafmtreinish, it would be good to either get more feedback on it or approve it17:22
mtreinishI'll take a look at it after the other one17:22
andreafmtreinish, thanks17:22
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mtreinishI am thinking we might need to revise the spec process a bit in kilo, but I'll save that discussion for later17:22
mtreinishok let's move on17:22
mtreinish#topic Blueprints17:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints (Meeting topic: qa)"17:22
mkodererI'd like to give an update regarding negative testing17:23
mtreinishmkoderer: ok17:23
dkranzdpaterson could not be here but said he is going to push another patch for the resource cleanup17:23
mkoderermtreinish: we can close the schema unification bp17:23
mtreinishmkoderer: ok cool, I'll do that now17:23
mkodererbut we have some issues with the exiting schemas17:24
mkodererwe never acutually verfied that there are working17:24
mkodererso 2 of 4 are broken :(17:24
mkodererI tried to fix it with auto validation17:25
mkodererand I will fix the broken ones17:25
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mtreinishmkoderer: ok cool. is the validation going to run as a unit test?17:26
mkoderermtreinish: no because it has to send a request to a real server17:26
mtreinishah, ok17:26
mtreinishyeah I see that now17:26
mkoderermtreinish: so it's a gate test17:26
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mkodererah and I have to update the documentation again :)17:27
mkodererk that's it from the negative testing front17:27
mtreinishok thanks17:27
andreafmtreinish, updates from my side17:27
mtreinishandreaf: ok17:27
andreafmtreinish, the multi-auth one, I'm waiting on scenario migration and test accounts to be through as they'll make my life easier then I'll resume work there17:28
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mtreinishok that makes sense17:28
mtreinishI'll defer that to kilo then, because it probably can't be done until then17:29
andreafmtreinish: yes17:29
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andreafmtreinish, test-accounts is progressing well there is a failure on the large opts test which I need to debug else it's almost done17:29
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andreafmtreinish: and we support the current configuration as well for backward compatibility so the periodic job will keep running17:30
mtreinishandreaf: is that job also in the experimental pipeline?17:30
mtreinishbecause I think it'll be good to test it before we land that change17:30
andreafmtreinish, uhm I have to check17:31
mtreinishandreaf: no big deal if it's not, it's easy enough to add17:31
mtreinishI'd just like to avoid a big surprise there when we land it17:31
andreafmtreinish, ok I'll check and add it in case it's not there17:32
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mtreinishandreaf: ok is there anything else?17:33
andreafmtreinish: on the scenario migration, as masayukig is not here, we also have good progress (MERGED:9, APPROVED:3, SUBMITTED:4, NOT YET:2)17:33
andreafmtreinish, plus the final cleanup of things17:34
mtreinishcool, yeah that's moving a long17:34
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andreafmtreinish, there's a problem with this kind of migration and copy of code in that if the original code is updated in the meantime the change could be lost if we don't recheck on cleanup17:34
andreafmtreinish, so I think we'll need careful review on cleanup again17:35
mtreinishyeah, that's a good point17:35
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andreafmtreinish, all from me17:35
mtreinishdoes anyone else have an update on an open bp17:36
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mtreinishok then I'll bring up tempest-lib now17:37
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mtreinish#topic tempest-lib first release17:37
*** openstack changes topic to "tempest-lib first release (Meeting topic: qa)"17:37
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mtreinishlast week we created the openstack/tempest-lib repo17:37
mtreinishthe first release was going to be just the cli testing framework17:38
mtreinishI've got 3 patches up for review at:,n,z17:38
mtreinishwhich clean a few things up17:38
mtreinishand after that I think we're ready for the first push to pypi17:38
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dkranzmtreinish: cool. I have a question about the next step.17:38
mtreinishthat will allow us to switch tempest over to use the lib for cli tests17:38
mtreinishand then start the migration of those tests into the clients17:39
mtreinishdkranz: sure17:39
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mtreinishI wanted to make sure everyone was comfortable with the interface after those 3 patches17:39
dkranzThe real bang-for-the buck here will be moving the tempest service base classes and rest clients so can be used by project func tests17:39
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dkranzWe already identified the "_, body = ..." issue with a proposed solution17:40
mtreinishdkranz: well the rest client is next on the list for migration17:40
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dkranzmtreinish: IMO, we should fix the _, body issue first17:40
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mtreinishdkranz: would we handle that in the rest client or the service clients though?17:40
dkranzIt is now an ugly scar17:40
dkranzmtreinish: Sorry, I thought you were including the service clients17:41
dkranzmtreinish: This is definitely handled in the service clients17:41
mtreinishmaybe, but the first step is the rest client and the required auth and cred stuff17:41
dkranzmtreinish: right17:41
mtreinishbecause that's an easy win17:41
mtreinishwe can sit on the service clients for a bit longer and fix the warts first17:42
andreafdkranz, mtreinish that brings up a general question I have about how we proceed for the migration - we stop accepting patches as soon as a piece of code is proposed for migration to tempest-lib?17:42
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dkranzmtreinish: agreed,17:42
andreafandreaf, what about all the in-flight patches that affect rest-client? they will need to be split17:42
mtreinishandreaf: yeah, once something is migrated we should ideally tell them to move over to the lib17:42
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dkranzI think we need to specify a cut-off date17:43
dkranzANd make sure we review patches in flight before then17:43
mtreinishandreaf: just rebase them on the lib, the only thing that should be different is the path17:43
andreafmtreinish, perhaps we should keep an etherpard to track migration so people now what to expect / and how to review17:43
dkranzand reject them after17:43
mtreinishdkranz: yeah that's a good idea17:43
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mtreinishanyway, we've got a bunch of topics left still17:44
mtreinishso we can discuss this in -qa after the meeting17:44
mtreinishso let's move on17:44
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mtreinish#topic Devstack17:44
*** openstack changes topic to "Devstack (Meeting topic: qa)"17:44
mtreinishdtroyer: around?17:44
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mtreinishwell if dtroyer shows up we can come back to devstack17:46
mtreinishunless anyone else has something to discuss about devstack17:46
mtreinishok, then let's move on17:46
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mtreinish#topic Grenade17:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Grenade (Meeting topic: qa)"17:47
mtreinishjogo, sdague: any updates on grenade this week?17:47
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mtreinishok, does anyone else have anything to discuss about grenade then?17:48
* mtreinish wonders if there is a correlation between projects in bash and meeting topics...17:48
jogomtreinish: no updates on my end17:49
mtreinishjogo: ok17:49
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mtreinishok let's move on17:49
mtreinish#topic Critical Reviews17:49
jogomtreinish: oh we did land the ironic sidways upgrade stuff17:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical Reviews (Meeting topic: qa)"17:49
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x3114110>17:49
mtreinishjogo: ok, cool17:49
mtreinishthat's the bit adam_g was working on to do a juno bm -> juno ironic migration17:50
mtreinishjogo: will that logic also work for a n-net -> neutron migration when the time comes?17:50
jogomtreinish: yup we expect to have to do a similar thing for nova-network -> neutron17:50
mtreinishmarkmcclain: ^^^ just a heads up17:50
mtreinishok if there's nothing else on grenade we can move on17:51
mtreinish#topic Critical Reviews17:51
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mtreinishok, does anyone have a review they'd like to get eyes on17:51
dmoritaI have one.17:52
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dmoritaAs i wrote in agenda, I am working on moving checker of response code to service clients17:52
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dmoritafor Swift17:52
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mtreinishdmorita: ok, yeah I see the notes from the agenda17:53
dkranzmtreinish: This is the same old issue17:53
mtreinishthat discussion came up before, the decision we reached is that swift is the exception to that stability rule17:53
dmoritaThe problem is which idea to choose17:53
mtreinishbecause it predates it17:53
dmoritahi, notmyname17:53
notmynameno, I don't agree that we are changing any stability rules17:54
notmynamewe aren't changing any response codes with this patch17:54
mtreinishit's why we define the valid success_codes in rest client17:54
dkranznotmyname: no one said we were17:54
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mtreinishnotmyname, dmorita: I'll chime in on that review later today, assuming the code is good I'll give it a +A17:55
notmynameok, so what's the status on it? what's the path forward17:55
dkranznotmyname: I gave my +2 and I hope it will be approved as is.17:55
notmynamealso note
mtreinishnotmyname: it was just oomichi forgot the discussion from last year on this topic17:56
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notmynameoh, I didn't know it was a previous conversation17:56
dkranznotmyname: yes, you and I had it :)17:56
notmynameheh, ok17:56
dkranzamong others17:56
notmynameanyway, I wanted to be clear that we're not looking for API instability or changing things out from under clients17:56
notmynameI think I can say with integrity that swift is pretty good at api stability17:57
dkranznotmyname: I know, it is just that swift's definition is different the others but we are accepting that17:57
notmynamebut at the same time, it is very much our intention that swift clients should be looking at response code classes17:57
dmoritaYes. i think so too. but double check is necessary IMHO17:57
dkranzof course17:57
mtreinishok, with ~2min left, does anyone else have any other reviews to bring up that could use extra eyes17:58
coolsvapmtreinish, I would like to highlight the fact that XenServer CI -1 might be affecting code reviews17:58
mtreinishcoolsvap: as in we're breaking xenserver ci17:58
mtreinishor that people aren't looking at reviews because of a -1 from xenserver ci?17:58
coolsvapmtreinish, i think that way17:59
mtreinishcoolsvap: which way?17:59
coolsvapsince the Verified column is -1 even though jenkins is +117:59
mtreinishoh, ok17:59
dkranzYes, I had trouble with this as well17:59
mtreinishyeah that's something to just keep an eye out for17:59
mtreinishxenserver ci might have a false negative just like jenkins18:00
dkranzmtreinish: IMO, it is a bug that the high-level view shows -1 if jenkins says +118:00
clarkbnote you can server with label:verified>=1,jenkins18:00
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clarkband get what jenkins +'d18:00
mtreinishdkranz: well unless we broke something for the non-jenkins env18:00
mtreinishlike a hardcoded libvirt assumption in a test18:00
dkranzclarkb: I think the issue is with the review dashboard that sdague provided18:00
mtreinishclarkb: cool thanks18:00
dkranzof course we should not ignore the -118:01
mtreinishdkranz: you can update that, it's just a repo18:01
mtreinishanyway we're at time18:01
mtreinishthanks everyone18:01
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openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 11 18:01:32 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)18:01
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coolsvapclarkb, I saw your discussion with yfried just wanted to update here so that people should not just look at -1 and use query :)18:01
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mikalle ping: mikal tjones cburgess jgrimm adrian_otto mzoeller funzo mjturek jcook ekhugen21:00
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mikalLooking at the agenda this might be a short one21:00
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mikal#startmeeting nova21:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Sep 11 21:01:47 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mikal. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:01
mikalWell hello21:02
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dansmithquick would be awesome21:02
mikalThe agenda as always is at
* mriedem1 sneaks in late21:02
mikal#topic Feature freeze exceptions21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Feature freeze exceptions (Meeting topic: nova)"21:02
mikalWe still have a few inflight21:02
mikalThe deadline for them to _enter_ the gate being midnight Friday this week21:02
dansmithwe just had a thing21:02
dansmiththat kicked out at least one21:03
mikalLooking at the list, I think server group quotas is the most off the rails of the four left21:03
mikaldansmith: as in verification failed?21:03
mriedem1mikal: no gate reset21:03
dansmithmikal: as in, 100% of unit tests were failing21:03
PhilDCodes's there - but it needs a tempest chaneg which is in the gate.  Going to just be a race against the gate at ths point21:03
mriedem1mikal: bad sqla-migrate release broke unit tests, had to be promoted to top21:04
mriedem1which reset the gate21:04
mikalmriedem1: ahhh ok21:04
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dansmithwell, and SRIOV got kicked because it "failed"21:04
mikalI wouldn't panic yet21:04
dansmithbecause of unit tests21:04
mikalIf things are approved and we're just fighting the gate then we can work through that21:04
mikalLet's go through these four real quick21:04
mikalvmware refactor21:04
mikalThere are two minor patches left?21:05
mikalOne approved and one not21:05
PhilDThe tempest change needed for sg quotas has been in the gate for 21hrs.  Once that merges I'm expecting the nova changes to verify -21:05
mriedem1that's the last one it looks like21:05
mikal is approved but not merged as well21:05
mriedem1the latter sounds like cleanup, not functional21:05
mikalBut yeah, I think vmware refactor is basically done except for that one21:05
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mriedem1it's not tied to the bp either21:06
mriedem1 that is21:06
mikalmriedem1: oh, as in we might just do that last one during stablisation anyways?21:06
mikalAhhh, well spotted21:06
mikalI had trusted the etherpad list21:06
mikalSo, vmware refactor is safe I'd say21:06
mikalvirt-numa-driver-placement then21:07
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mikalTwo there need approval21:07
dansmithmikal: fully in the gate, I think21:07
dansmithoh, thought jaypipes had done that one already21:08
mikalSo, it would be cool if someone could be the second +2 on those todayish21:08
jaypipesI will.21:08
dansmithjaypipes: was going to I think he prolly just got distracted21:08
jaypipesI thought I already had...21:08
mikalI will take a look at them after the meeting unless someone beats me to it21:08
mikalCool, so virt-numa is safe then too21:08
jaypipesmikal: nah, I'm on it.21:08
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mikaljaypipes: ta21:09
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mikalserver group quotas21:09
mikalPhilD: its your time to shine21:09
mikalWe're waiting on the tempest change?21:09
PhilDFirst patch is in the gate21:09
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PhilDsecond part is +2'd but needs the tempest change21:09
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mikal needs rescue though?21:10
PhilDthird part has been reviewd OK but was missign v2.1 work.  That's there now - waitign for Chris and Ken'ichi to come on lien and do a final pass21:10
mikalAhhh, ok21:10
mikalSo you think you're covered once those guys wake up?21:10
PhilDNeeds Chris and Ken'icih to re-review it yes, btu the changs is jist to 2,121:10
mikalOr do you want to ask if anyone else can review as well?21:10
PhilDYep, I think so21:10
PhilDMore eyes are always welcome21:10
mikalSo, server groups is mostly safe then21:10
mikalSRIOV is the last one21:11
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dansmithSRIOV was fully in the gate earlier21:11
mikal,n,z is the correc tlist for this one, right?21:11
dansmithafter a check run of the base one, it should all pop back in21:11
mikal needs re-approval?21:11
mikal depends on an outdated dependancy?21:12
dansmithmikal: that one is not part of the original thing21:12
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mikalAhhh, ok21:12
dansmithmikal: something baoli and I are adding on top for more testing21:12
mikalIts in the gerrit list is all21:12
mikalOk, cool21:12
mikalCan you turn the etherpad list into the canonical list of reviews you need to merge for the bp to be marked completed?21:12
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mikalThat will help me know when to mark it done21:12
sdagueso, how possibly destabalizing do we think any of these ffes could be?21:13
mikalWell, we approved them all21:13
mikalSo in theory they shouldn't be too bad21:13
sdaguebecause back of the envelope... these are probably not really landing until middle of next week if "in gate by friday" is the critera21:13
PhilDThe quota change is pretty well contained, so its scope for mayhem is limited21:13
mikalOur gate load should be pretty light, I guess that depends on how wild other teams are going21:14
sdagueyeh, vmware and quotas feel pretty off in their corner21:14
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mikalSRIOV sounds well tested21:14
mikali.e. someone has actually deployed it to test, right Dan?21:14
PhilDNuma and SRIOV look like they have a much bigger surface21:14
sdagueyeh, my bigger concern is the fact that we went from 1 in 10 tests failing to 1 in 221:14
sdagueduring FFE21:14
sdaguefor all of openstack21:14
dansmithmikal: yeah, it *actually* works :)21:14
mikalThat's not good21:14
sdaguethat's why there is a 30 hr backup21:14
sdaguewhich was a 26 hr backup this morning21:15
baolimikal, it's been tested on cisco's vmfex and mlnx's21:15
mikalsdague: do we know what bit is less stable now?21:15
sdaguemikal: no...21:15
jogoanother way to look at this is: on our record for merges to openstack/openstack in a single day is something like 14021:15
jogoyesterday we merged 3821:15
sdagueyeh, right now we should be merging 120 - 150 a day21:15
sdaguegiven the in flow21:15
sdagueso I get everyone wants their feature in21:15
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jogomikal: everything is pretty bad right now21:16
mikalLooking at the calendar, we cut rc1 on 25 September (ish)21:16
PhilDIf someone coudl keep an eye on the tempest change and re-vreify the other two Nova changes if/when it lands overnight (my time) that would help me21:16
sdaguebut ... the trade off with this much energy still on features at this point in the game, seems odd21:16
mikalWhich is 14 days away21:16
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jogohorizon, neutron, nova, mordred, glance21:17
mikalmordred is unreliable?21:17
mikalsdague: I agree we need to move past this to really getting stabilization happening21:17
sdaguehe did push sqlalchemy-migrate package which broke all our unit tests21:17
jogomikal: yup;a=commitdiff;h=9c2d6f21854bc79f03095163b8133a9fec68f9f221:17
mikalOh, nice21:17
sdaguewell, the point is, we're not going to be able to start what we'd normally consider stabalization until the gate is under control21:18
sdagueand that's probably 10 - 14 days solid effort21:18
jogowhat about a hard deadline for things by your Monday mikal21:18
sdagueanyway, something to consider21:18
mikaljogo: as in "if it hasn't merged by then you're out?"21:18
jogomikal: yup21:19
mikalI think that's fair... Its two days past the original deadline in the UK timezone.21:19
mikalIt only works for us if the rest of the ecosystem is also dropping things out of the gate too though, right?21:19
mikalWe need other projects to also be working on stabilization21:20
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jogomikal: yeah that would help21:20
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dansmithso, without a doubt, that deadline is going to leave some of these features half-merged21:20
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mikaldansmith: that's hard to tell... It depends how broken the gate is21:21
jogomikal: I can send an email out later today about gate issues21:21
mikaljogo: that would be good21:21
dansmithBased on how it has been going this week, I think it's probably how it will go21:21
mikalOh, I agree21:21
PhilDDo they all leave things a sane state if they part merge ?21:21
dansmithso would we (a) revert the pieces, (b) leave them, or (c) push the rest to keep the feature whole?21:21
mikalI guess my point is do we think its going to be like that for the next two weeks?21:21
mikalAre we just going to reverify over and over for a couple of weeks?21:22
sdaguewell, all patches are supposed to be safe for the b camp, right?21:22
dansmithI'm not arguing against the deadline, by the way :)21:22
dansmithsdague: technically, sure21:22
sdaguethat's our design point, we work at every patch level21:22
mikalb camp?21:22
jogodansmith: we can evaulate case by case how to deal with things that won't make it21:22
dansmithI'm just curious how we're going to handle it21:22
sdaguei.e. don't revert work that lands, just move on21:22
dansmithjogo: okie21:22
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dansmiththese are some of the larger FFEs we've ever had, I think21:23
mikalI think there's always an implied "we will do the least worst thing when the time comes"21:23
mikalBut encouraging people to be watching their patches over the weekend is a good idea21:23
dansmithso I just want to make sure we think about what we're going to do21:23
dansmith"nothing" is fine with me :)21:23
sdagueyeh, nova had a ton of large FFE21:23
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sdaguenormally FFE for nova is closed out by the tuesday after21:23
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mikalThis is true, although I think we also worked through most of them better than ususal as well21:24
mikalGate tech debt is what is hurting us here21:24
mikal(Noting that is our fault as well, just a different thing)21:24
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mikalI want to move onto bugs if I may21:24
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mikalBecause I think that's where the gate discussion goes21:24
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mikal#topic Bugs21:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:25
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mikalsdague / mriedem1 / jogo: if you could cherry pick stablization bugs for people to work on, what would they be?21:25
mikalDo you have a wish list?21:25
jogomikal: go to
mikalWould putting a list of important bugs in an etherpad or something help?21:25
mriedem1mikal: there was some discussion in nova today already, lots21:25
jogoand look for the word nova (or neutron)21:25
tjonesshould we mark those critical for tracking purposes?21:26
sdaguehonestly, I've not been working on gate issues, I've been trigaging the nova bug queue21:26
mriedem1yeah i'd go through e-r and look for things that are targeted to nova and aren't completely ambiguous, like 'think timed out waiting for status x'21:26
tjonesthere is just 1 critical affecting gate but i think there are more...21:26
mikalI think its a bending of our triage rules, but if something is breaking the gate its a big deal21:26
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1367941 in oslo-incubator "Able to aquire the semaphore used in lockutils.synchronized_with_prefix twice at the same time" [Critical,Confirmed]21:26
sdaguetjones: yeh, I think marking gate bugs critical is good21:26
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mriedem1tjones: i thought we had a lockutils sync?21:26
jogotjones: yes that would be great, I don't think we can realistically mark all as critical. so say anything with 5 or more hits in 1 day21:26
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mriedem1oh nvm21:26
sdaguemriedem1: this is after the sync21:26
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tjonesjogo: good idea21:27
jogomriedem1: mriedem1 lockutils was a red herring21:27
mikaljogo: the elastic_recheck page is sorted by fail rate, yes?21:27
sdaguemikal: yes21:27
jogotjones: also some are marked as invlalid21:27
jogomikal: fail rate in last 24 hours21:27
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jogoso just go to the top of the page21:27
sdaguejogo: did you get any further on - 1367941 ?21:28
sdaguebecause I can imagine that might be a culprit in lots of issues21:28
jogosdague: yeah it was a red herring21:28
jogosdague: just misleading logs21:28
jogosdague: which is too bad21:28
sdagueso why is it still confirmed?21:28
jogosdague: because there was a bug, but it was in the logging21:29
sdaguecan you update the log message and make it not critical :P21:29
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jogosdague: that is the workigng theory at least and everything backs that up21:29
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jogosdague: re-triaged out of critical21:30
sdaguejogo: thanks21:30
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jogosdague: you looked into bug 1357476 right?21:31
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1357476 in neutron "Timeout waiting for vif plugging callback for instance" [Medium,Confirmed]
sdagueon the up side, only 32 bugs in the new state for nova21:31
sdagueI was debugging with dansmith21:31
mriedem1jogo: dansmith has a logging patch up for that21:31
sdagueyeh, we need the logging patch21:31
mikalI guess I'm hoping for a FFE like workflow for bugs at this point21:31
sdaguesomething's not right21:31
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mikalIf we could decide as a group a small number to focus on21:31
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mikalWe might make more progress than we do usually21:31
mikalI guess "Critical" is one way of defining that group21:32
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tjoneseither that or use a tag21:32
jogolets do critical21:32
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mikalWell, we should also be emailing that list to -dev a bunch21:33
mikalLet's make it hard for people to not know what to look at21:33
tjonesthat will do it!21:33
mikalIf people were checking the bug tracker, we wouldn't have 1,000 bugs21:33
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tjones935 (without incomplete)21:34
mriedem1moving on...21:34
mriedem1novaclient release?21:34
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mikalBut if someone could come up witha  wishlist email that would be good21:34
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mikalmriedem1: sure, if you want one21:34
mikalmriedem1: what prompts it?21:34
mriedem1mikal: 9/18 is the deadline for final client releases before rc121:35
mikalAnd would it destabilize the gate?21:35
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mriedem1the gate already uses trunk novaclient21:35
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mikalWow, there's a lot of "undecided" in the client fix committed list21:35
mriedem1this would be for getting it into global-reqs i think as a min version?21:35
mriedem1there is a ML thread21:35
mikalNothing above medium for those thigns which are triaged21:35
* mikal looks21:36
mikalOh that one21:36
mriedem1mikal: basically any FFEs that touch the clients should have a release before rc121:36
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mikalOk, so how about I try and triage those bugs so they're less confusing over the weekend21:36
mikalAnd do a release on my Monday?21:36
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mriedem1sure, well i think you have a week21:37
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mikalI don't recall seeing any client changes in the FFE review list21:37
mikalBut I might have missed them21:37
mikalI wasn't really looking for them21:37
mriedem1they'd be tied to the bp's21:37
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mikalOk, I will make a note to do a client release21:37
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mikaloMoving on?21:37
mriedem1that's an example of server bp that is in the client21:38
mriedem1but not in a released client version21:38
mriedem1for vishy21:38
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mikalSo noted21:38
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PhilD is the client change for server group quotas21:39
mriedem1PhilD: he needs to tie it to the bp21:39
mikalGetting that through the gate before 18 September will be hard21:39
mikalGiven we need to get three of its friends through first21:39
sdagueyeh, honestly, just wait on the client bit there and bring it in once we open the tree back up21:40
sdagueand cut another release of the nova client after the release21:40
PhilDOk - makes sense21:40
mikalYeah, client releases aren't too scary21:40
jaypipesmikal: both remaining NUMA patches now reviewed.21:40
mikalBut I agree that change needs to be tied to the BP21:40
mikalMoving on...21:40
PhilDIts only the shell change - the client bindign itself will work wth the new quotas anyway21:40
mikalI think we've covered gate already21:40
mikal#topic Ironic API proxy21:41
*** openstack changes topic to "Ironic API proxy (Meeting topic: nova)"21:41
mikalThe code is out for review for this one right?21:41
mikalIt seems the concensus on the thread is we should land it?21:41
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mikalIts not even very big21:42
mikalSo... Who is going to review it?21:42
dansmithI will21:43
sdagueI will21:43
dansmithbecause I have time for that21:43
mikalI will too, cause I feel left out21:43
mikalOk, let's just do it then21:43
sdagueI did the first round, mostly wanted a fix on imports, didn't see if we had a second21:43
mikalWe're at patch set 721:43
mikalThis is the last thing blocking ironic graduation as best as I can tell21:44
sdagueunit test fails are probably migrate's fault21:44
mriedem1i'll add to the queue21:44
mikalsdague: It already had a recheck?21:44
sdagueit just failed out recently I thought21:45
mikalIt failed at 7:29AM21:45
mikalAnd got rechecked at 7:39AM21:45
mikal(My time)21:45
sdaguein crazy future world21:45
sdagueok, my bad :)21:45
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mikalOk, I'm done with ironic proxies21:45
mikal#topic Open Discussion21:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:46
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bknudsonI've got a bug fix up for review -- -- for some reason it's -V.21:46
bknudsonalthough it's actually passed all the CI21:46
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jogobknudson: citrix doesn't like it21:47
jogoclick toggle CI21:47
mriedem1citrix doesn't like much today21:47
jogoalthough citrix says it passed but -1ed anywy21:47
bknudsonfor some reason the latest citrix CI comment says it passed.21:47
bknudsonmaybe just rebase it and run again?21:48
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mikalHas anyone pinged Bob about the citrix CI being unreliable?21:48
mriedem1just did21:48
mriedem1consider him punged21:48
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sdaguethe reason citrix CI is unreliable is the memory bloat21:48
jogosdague: ?21:48
sdaguethey are basically always running out of memory on their systems during test21:48
clarkbright they have the xenserver overhead on top of everything else21:48
clarkbwhich is non trivial iirc21:49
* dansmith shudders21:49
sdagueBobBall was actually originally the one pushing the reduction of workers in devstack because of *this*21:49
sdagueso there is a patch, that ianw disagrees with me on, that gives us a global flag to tune this. I suppose I should just override him and land it so we can move forward.21:49
bknudsondevstack change:
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mikalSo, I think we're done here?21:51
mikalNothing else?21:51
jogofix bugs please!21:51
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mikalI live to obey21:51
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jogoI marked gate  bugs as critical21:51
sdaguemikal: definition for release critical bugs?21:51
mriedem1why does novaclient have a config generator file?21:51
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mikalsdague: hmmm, not sure. I haven't given much thought to that yet. Do we have a written definition we've used in the past?21:52
sdaguedon't know, it would just probably be good for guidance on triage21:53
mikalThis sounds like the sort of thing ttx will have advice on21:53
mikalI shall ping him and ask21:53
mikalI feel like I don't need to reinvent the wheel here, just work out what we said in the past21:53
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mikalSounds like we're done21:54
mikalHave a 6 minute break21:54
mikalThen go fix bugs21:54
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:54
openstackMeeting ended Thu Sep 11 21:54:53 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:54
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